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Even the local Scientology mission is hiding a horror show of abuse: Kelly Jordan tells her tale

kelly_jordan

 
We noticed Tim DeWall made an interesting comment at his Facebook page about a new set of people coming out of Scientology and reaching out to him and his wife, Sylvia. You may remember the story we did about the DeWalls, and the audiotape that recorded the moment Sylvia was learning that a young ethics officer at the Flag Land Base planned to have her declared a “suppressive person,” forcing her to cut off all of her relationships with other church members.

We told Tim we’d be interested to hear from any of the new people who have contacted them. So Tim introduced us to Kelly Jordan. Kelly lives in Sarasota after leaving her job at Scientology’s Clearwater mission eight years ago. What follows is the Facebook messenger conversation we had, edited only a little for clarity.

 
I was on staff at the Clearwater mission for 14 years and it was pretty horrible. I left in 2008. I live in Sarasota now, I have a very good life. Mostly I just feel really stupid for sticking around so long. During my time in Scientology there was quite a bit of what I would consider to be emotional abuse, not to mention financial instability in the extreme.

How about the rest of your family? Were they in and did they get out?

No, I moved to Florida from Texas and got in right after that. All my family was still in Texas, and so for all those years I barely saw them, I guess because we were in Clearwater.

When you say ‘Clearwater,’ we tend to think of the Flag Land Base. But Clearwater also has a mission, about four miles east of the Fort Harrison Hotel and the rest of the Flag compound.

Yep. It’s been there since the ’80s.

We suppose it exists because Flag isn’t for beginners.

No, Flag is not for beginners. The Captain of Flag asked the mission holder, Ann Manierre, to start the mission in 1986, I think. It was very successful in the 80’s. But in the last several years, not so much. There were only 5 or so staff when I was there.

How about a typical day?

Arrive in the morning for study time. Break at noon for lunch, which was eaten during a meeting. Greet public at 12:45, work until 5, eat dinner at our desks while meeting, then work until 1030 or so, depending. Sometimes later, especially on Wednesdays. For the last few years we closed at 5pm on weekends. But we worked 7 days.

And for what pay?

“What pay” is right. Anywhere from nothing to $300 a week. Basically, we had a Sea Org schedule.

A Sea Org schedule, at a mission?

Yes, we started at 9 am and went until 10:30 or 11:30 at night, seven days a week and then eventually we closed at 5 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday. We were supposed to have study time in the mornings, but since I was either “PTS” or “suppressive” repeatedly over all those years because it was so hard to get the stats up, I really didn’t have very much study time. I had no life. There were five Flag terminals [officials from the nearby Flag Land Base] coming and going from the mission all the time. If we didn’t do some kind of fundraising correctly for them then they would basically sit in the mission until we did it. The ED, Ann Manierre, is erratic. One day everything would be amazing and the next day the world was ending and it was all my fault. I never knew what I was walking into. You see why I feel so bad about staying so long? But I was married to a Scientologist and I didn’t want to lose him. Also, he supported me, so what choice did I have? There was a certain amount of glory being that close to Flag. My husband and I were Cornerstone members of the Super Power Building, and there was stature connected with that.

How much did that cost you?

Super Power Cornerstone I think was $100,000. Plus he was a patron of the IAS, which was $40,000 at the time. And that was before 9/11. My husband was in a tech industry, and then the stock market crashed and he had to declare bankruptcy at some point after that.

Are you still married to him?

No, but we are still friends because I left the mission on good terms, I was not declared or anything.

How high on the Bridge did you get?

That’s the big joke, I only got to ARC Straightwire. And Student Hat on the training side. In 14 years. When you are constantly in ethics trouble for absolutely no reason, you don’t make it very far up the Bridge. Since I’ve left Scientology I’ve now been at my job for five years and I’ve had two promotions and my boss loves me. So if you compare the two, it makes no sense.

When was the last time you were sec-checked? What was it for? The reason for being in ethics trouble, in other words.

I was only sec-checked [interrogated] once because we only had one auditor who didn’t have time for staff. So I did Lower Conditions over and over. Each time was different. Down stats. Not meeting quota. I can’t even remember. Such trivial stuff.

So describe for us what the last eight years have been like as you’ve adjusted to life after Scientology.

At first it was hard because I was super broke and my credit score was low and I had nothing. I literally lived in a one-room studio for $500 a month which my mother helped pay. It was humiliating. And the reason I left (even though I had wanted to leave for years) is that I got so sick I couldn’t get out of bed for a month. So eventually I got a part time job and a bigger place, and a full time job. Now I am happily remarried, have a great job, an excellent credit score and financial stability. At first when I left, it was very difficult for me to function; I always felt like Ann was watching me — I could hear her in my head, criticizing me. I couldn’t just sit and relax, I had to always be doing something because that was expected of me for so long. It took years for me to sort of become a real person again. I mean, I joined staff one year out of college. I had no life experience. When I left I had no real life job experience. It was not easy. It was even hard not to talk with my speech not being littered with Scientology terminology – I had done it for so long.

And what got you in to begin with after you moved to Florida?

I met a guy in Austin and we moved to Clearwater to be closer to his family and they were all Scientologists. His mom took me to the mission.

So you recently reached out to Sylvia and Tim?

Yes, I was on your site and saw an article about Sylvia, and I messaged her just to say I was happy for them. I didn’t know them well but I always liked them.

Have you reached out to other ex-members? Have you run into any former friends criticizing you for leaving the church?

No, I just sort of vanished. And I’m not in an area where there are any Scientologists.

Do you know anyone who is still there? Do you know if things have changed at all?

I just know Ann and her husband Carter are still there. Everyone else that was there with me is gone. Last I heard there was only Ann, Carter who audits, and a part time supervisor.

When you were working so many hours for so little pay, how did you live? And how did you come up with such large donations?

Before I was married I rented a room, it was tight. My husband had a very good job.

What else do you want readers to know about your experience?

I still can’t believe I wasted all those years but I had to put it behind me. I’m really not gullible but when you’re young, it is easy to think you really are saving the world. They have a very crafty way of getting you in with the basic stuff and then before you realize it, if you want to leave, you could lose all your connections. I didn’t know anyone who wasn’t in, and I had to start my life over from scratch. But if there there is anyone who wants to leave, they absolutely should. Life out here is real. In there it isn’t.

 
——————–

shelley_duvallWhere’s [the other] Shelley? A Kubrick Spaced-Out Odyssey

It’s a pretty familiar call or message that you receive in a job like this. The person who wants to talk to you has read your stories about Scientology’s legendary retaliation tactics. About the private investigators, the surveillance, the harassment, and in cases like Paulette Cooper’s or Lisa McPherson’s, even worse.

So they call you up or send you an email or Facebook message, and they desperately want to get together or want to talk on the phone about how they’ve become victims of Scientology Fair Game, and the church has tapped their phones, broken into their homes, kidnapped family members…and all for no particular reason at all.

We get that call about once a month now. At times in our career they used to come more frequently. Sometimes it was less. And you try, politely, to suggest that the person seek professional help of some kind. You then never hear from them again.

Like we said, it’s a very familiar experience, and you tend to forget them pretty quickly. But there was one call exactly like this that we received at the Village Voice in 2011 that we’ll never forget.

Because it was from Shelley Duvall.

The actress, famous for The Shining and Popeye and other films, had been reading our stories and wanted to tell us that her house was under constant attack by Scientologists.

For about a minute, we were tempted to write a story about it — the National Enquirer had already said Shelley was living in squalor in Texas and had lost her mind. But we just hoped she got some help and figured it wasn’t newsworthy that someone who had played such interesting characters had descended into madness.

We bring this up today because Dr. Phil McGraw has decided to put Duvall and her mental state on television and it’s kicking up controversy. Some feel that he should have left her alone with her delusions. No doubt others will be glad that he’s tried to help her out. We can see both sides of that argument.

But what really caught our attention was that Vivian Kubrick has spoken up publicly and is attacking Dr. Phil for exploiting Shelley.

Why Vivian? For the connection with her father’s film, The Shining, apparently.

But the USA Today piece that mentions her doesn’t point out the other weird connection: That Kubrick herself is a Scientologist, and maybe is not the first person you’d think of to be an authority on mental health.

We’ve written at length about Vivian’s journey in Scientology and how it broke her father’s heart. She might want to address those issues before going off on other people about the best way to treat persistent delusions. It’s just a thought.

 
——————–

HowdyCon2017

Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on November 18, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • East Coast – dress warm tomorrow. Sleep tight.

  • PerpetualOutflow

    Congratulations Kelly on shaking the complacent, unreflective and unenlightened world of $cientology. The supposed uptone, upstat, at cause, superpower results of $cientology are illusory and based on a lie and a con. The hard truth is that $cientology is an inhumane, institutionalized evil that has shamelessly wreaked grave injustices on its own parishioners. Do everything you can to strip off all of its pernicious tentacles from your life. Despite the hardships, you will be so glad you did.

  • Chee Chalker

    Anyone heard from Baby? Baby, if you’re reading this….hello! How ya doin?

    • Draco

      I miss her too. I’m so used to seeing her post at all kinds of crazy hours. Hope she’s doing okay.

  • TheMirrorThetan

    Off Topic, but any cat haters can lick my balls. 😀
    I finally got a good pic of my new kitteh Chloe, below. It is easier to get a decent photo now I ditched the Iphone.
    Pazuzu kitteh has episodes of demonic possession still but the holy water added to the water bowl has helped. 🙂

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Forgot to add the pic. FFS.
      The onset of senility is going to be a very small bump for me as I get older. LOL.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b728d812f53b37d8381494beeb03062588194d77daa424460b3f16846882d768.jpg

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Hi Kitteh! Why do cats love keyboards so much?

        • Draco

          Cos they are so nice and warm 🙂

          • PerpetualOutflow

            Ah, their very own seat warmer.

            • Draco

              Yup. And it makes that lovely little clicking sound when you stomp all over it.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Warmth and to torment/shit you off because they mainly do it when you are busy trying to do something.

        • kemist
        • daisy

          Not just cats. I have a beagle that likes to drape herself over the keyboard. I have heavy plastic over it .It is harder to type but it is better than hairballs

      • Draco

        She’s a beaut! But sitting on the laptop? That’s a no-no for my cats. I teach them right away that this is a no-go zone for them. When they step on the wrong keys, all kinds of crazy shit can happen!

        • TheMirrorThetan

          I know but it is irresistible to them. And they usually grow out of it quickly.
          Yesterday she turned my desktop sideways and my mouse wouldn’t go in the right direction. Had to google how to fix it. :
          My computer guy knows to give it a good clean out inside when it occasionally goes into the shop for something. He saves the fur-ball to show me. Haha. I think he has high hopes that one day it will be furr free.

        • ReallyMGM

          Lily Kitty sits on my husband’s shoulder like a 9 lb. parrot while he types on the computer at night.
          Her keyboard activities happen when we sleep. We find strange things typed, music being played we would never select on iTunes, ect. When began putting the keyboard in a drawer because we were afraid she would purchase apps without our permission.
          Damn 🐈

      • aquaclara

        Bunker Kitty!

      • Juicer77

        Gorgeous!!!

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Thanks.
          You can’t see from the pic but she is semi long haired and has this enormous cute floofy tail.

          • Juicer77

            And pantaloons? Tell me there are pantaloons… XD

      • ReallyMGM

        Beautiful!
        I am a dog lover (show dogs and rescues), but adore my ginger kitty, Lily.

  • aquaclara

    Kelly, I love hearing the ending to your story. It takes guts to stay in Scientology (not the kind of guts Scientology thinks are praiseworthy), but it takes more to leave, and start all over again.

    I have passed that mission literally thousands of times since the 80s, and am always stunned it is still open. There is rarely more than one car in that lot. You had no way of knowing how hard I would -and still do–pray for those still in to just try to see what else goes on in Clearwater besides Scientology.

    So glad you’re doing well!

  • beetee

    I came to the conclusion that Scientology uses “covert invalidation and nullification” to control everyone. It is very insidious and hidden (carefully masked).

    It takes courage to face the truth and walk away.

    It is quite the mind fuck when you find out the depth of the con and scam.

  • Observer
    • Draco

      Poor things. Parents should think twice about what they name their kids. Jim Socks indeed.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      I knew a Dick Dick when I was a kid.
      The poor bastard. Why name your kid Richard Dick unless you hate them.

      • Liberated

        That’s just down-right cruel!

      • JJ

        Was a Fanny Hole for real. S’not funny people. Then you wonder why they never come for the hols?

      • daisy

        Our last name is Nickle – My dad wanted to call me Pumper. Thank God my mother wasn*t as drunk as him.

        • Liberated

          That would make you a nickel in a pickle.

    • Missionary Kid

      I have dated women named Sherri Cann, Mary Will, and Sue Wood, who next dated a guy named Brook Trout. He had a twin brother named Lake.

      I was in the service with Paris Frantz. I used to know a guy named Harry Dong.

      • Liberated

        I knew a guy named Harold “harry” Beaver. He was a cop.
        My kid knew a girl named Kate Hitler, blonde hair, blue eyes.
        Her family was Norwegian. Hmmm,.

        • Missionary Kid

          Some relatives of Hitler immigrated to the U.S., but they changed their name.

          • Liberated

            Well this chick’s family didn’t. Boy did she hate it.

  • Missionary Kid

    I just posted this over at Raw Story on Kubrik’s criticism of Dr. Phil.

    What Kubric doesn’t reveal is that she’s against “psychs”, since she’s a Scientologist, and opposed to all psychologists, psychiatrists, and all drugs that may help a person.

    Her cure is the expensive, quack treatments that L. Ron Hubbard came up with in the 1950’s, and whose attacks on “psychs” are, for the most part, based on past mistakes by those professions.

    Remember Tom Cruise arrogantly saying, “You don’t know the history of psychiatry…I do.” to Matt Lauer? That’s Scientology’s arrogance exposed. They have a museum entitled “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death” in Hollywood. Visit it. It’s a joke, filled with long abandoned mental health practices that are presented as being presently used.

    • I really… really had the urge to post something like this on the gofundme page!

    • Jon Hendry

      “What Kubric doesn’t reveal is that she’s against “psychs””

      Then Dr. Phil should be in the clear, since he hasn’t been licensed for years.

      *rimshot*

      • Missionary Kid

        He doesn’t claim to be giving therapy, and a court case backs him up that what he provides is entertainment. He does, however, have the PhD in clinical psychology.

        • JJ

          What if we don’t find it entertaining? Ah. “It is foolish to argue on matters of taste.” For something that “doesn’t really mean anything”, he sure has a lot of sway over very serious issues in people lives.

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s true, but can you cite where his advice was damaging to a person?

            Generally, a lot of what he says is common sense, whether a person on the show can see it or not. He also refers people to actual therapists, and says that that’s where the real work is done, behind closed doors.

            • JJ

              Can only hope so, and that proof would be in court for a decade.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s been ruled in court that he isn’t doing therapy, but is doing entertainment.

    • Liberated

      Scientology prefers the Lisa McPherson method of “help”

      • JJ

        If there is nothing else they need to answer for it is that! Mr. Miscavige is where the buck ended on that woman’s life.

        • Liberated

          I would love during some of these front group meetings that claim to care about human rights someone would display a before and after photo of Lisa, and show how this cult really has the answers for dealing or “handling” a person experiencing such difficulties.

          • JJ

            “Handling” that’s one way to put it. man handling, riding roughshod. Live and let die. I seriously think at some deep level he knows what he did and that he is culpable and has layered up from one end to the other to avoid any contagion of truth leaking out about this one. Remember that story about him flinching and freaking out when he thought someone was going to dare hit him back during one of his bully tirades. This would be a body blow of life altering proportions.

            • Liberated

              Yep, and I’ve always said when that little prick goes down, and he eventually will….he’s gonna take Tommy boy cruise with him.

            • JJ

              More lawyers, and would M ever entrust real info to Cruise who seems A. not too intelligent, B. unstable? Enthusiasm does not mean competence “LRH then COB and then ME!” Wha ha ha.

            • Liberated

              Yes, all the above.
              I hope this fall could happen before end of year, I need to be happy about something.
              It’s been an awful year…the only good thing the Cubs won the World Series, now I’m starting to think they jinxed everybody.
              Yeah, I know I’m talking crazy talk.

            • JJ

              No there is something whack going on, the fact the Cubbies won is just a little bit of a pattern of a very busy, odd, crazy year. I remember 2012 sucked too, but 2016 has been unprecedented for weirdness.

            • JJ

              Maybe it is a good thing 2016 is almost over, but 2017?…..Oh God…

            • JJ

              Therapist said not to assume things will be terrible, that is in the future and we don’t know for sure what the future holds. Which is true, but somewhere between mindfulness and flipping out totally might be the best place to be, cautiously un-optimistic and really paying attention to what starts being shoved down the pipe.

            • Liberated

              We lost so many great artists and don’t even get me started on this election.
              I’m in serious grief.

            • JJ

              Blistering! I know everyone as to die sometime but it seemed like EVERYBODY died this year. And not all over the age of 80 either! I try to be finished with the election and the comedy being born of the on going issues are…diverting, cept they are so serious. I literally though for half a day after the election I wished I had killed myself when I was 18.
              Can’t go back, must go forward, must not let forces of greed and evil take over.

            • Liberated

              Yeah, I know but I’m having a very hard time moving on.
              I think this is a disaster of epic proportions, that monster will never be my pres.
              There’s a website change.org check it out. I mean HC did get 2 mil. more votes than Mussolini.

            • JJ

              I know, it is hard to keep the thought of “storm clouds brewing” out of my head. I am thinking this is going to be a brutal winter and not just because of the weather. my mother keeps saying “We survived Regan.” This is not Regan or 1980. Different world entirely. And it is one thing to want to fix things the wrong way or to believe you have the solution for everything, it is something else to actively be part of the problem and to really just not care who you harm so long as you get your way.
              Local story, woman in a Goodwill flipped out because another patron was speaking Spanish to her own husband in a private conversation. The woman started screaming speak English, got arrested and insisted HER rights were being violated.
              We are dealing with a very delusional kind of bigot who feels others rights to exist are infringing on THEIR personal rights!

            • Liberated

              Oh I know, the incidents of racially motivated attacks are everyday.
              People seem to think they now have a license to be bigots.
              The poor oppressed white guy, now it’s their time to win.

              Too bad Charlie Sheen’s sick or trump would consider him for a cabinet post. Winning!

            • JJ

              Seriously, Jon Stewart said America is still the same country it was the day before the election. You wanna bet. People are tense angry and some people who have been very very angry for 8 years have unleashed themselves on the rest of the country. SPL is up to over 400 incidents of racial violence and incidents. Been what a week and a half. And this is stupid people? When Obama was elected the conservative republican said almost to a person that they would do all they could to block everything and anything he set before, them. The best and the brightest were that upset…?

            • JJ

              Could Obama have even been elected with the degree of baggage trump has, half? One third? And what if He needed to have his children around him at every step to make decisions…

            • Liberated

              Are you kidding me.
              Can you see Obama saying “oh man Malia’s 18 now she’s looking pretty sweet”
              Can you see him saying he wants to grab pussy, cause he can.

              The disgusting shit DT gets away with makes me sick. Now I’m getting all riled up, but I’ve been riled up for 1 week and 2 days.
              I’m not getting better either.

            • JJ

              Think riled is good. As long as it doesn’t lead to violence or isolation but are we not right to be concerned?

              it is 47 kinds of sick that. “Yes it is O.K. if you refer to my daughter as a piece of ass…” clearly it was OK he felt the same way. Who does that?! Power doesn’t change people it unmasks them. He was already unmasked by celebrity and he’s in anyway. No this is obscene.

            • Liberated

              Let’s not just talk about what kind of politician he is, let’s talk about what kind of human being he is. I mean who says that kinda stuff?

              The double standards make me sick.
              I think people hated the black family eating off the White House China, but I think president Obama will go down in history as a great president. The ACA saved my life.
              Isn’t it amazing people loved it when it was Romney Care.

            • JJ

              I know, it is the hypocrisy that is so nutso. These people hated him and signed petitions and declared themselves highly offended now they line up for cabinet positions. Maybe Politicians ARE some different kind of human being?

            • JJ

              Gonna turn in, maybe wake up and find something new and wonderful will have happened over night… or at least nothing way more badder?

            • Liberated

              Bye.

            • Mymy88

              OMG this is just a nightmare. Don’t worry Liberated. I know how you feel. I feel like the train has hit the cement wall and I’m watching the cars one by one as they smash into the cars in front of them.

            • JJ

              “They’re not all bigots.” No they are most definitely not all bigots but they were wiling to stand behind someone who had a very bigoted agenda and vote him into office with very little calling out of these less attractive qualities. IS not being a bigot but supporting a bigot an oxymoron in act?

            • daisy

              Where did you see the Jon Stewart interview ?

            • JJ

              Let me think a sec he was talking to, was it last night during the news I am checking here… Was talking to Charlie Rose on CBS news. morning news, maybe two days ago.

            • daisy

              Ok don*t go to any trouble.

            • JJ

              No i found clips but i couldn’t stay on fox news site too long, mike get cookied in a bad way.

            • Liberated

              I saw it on “raw story” yesterday.

            • Missionary Kid

              It was both on Good Morning America, as well as on Charlie Rose’s show, where it was replayed. It’s on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUkv_jPgTeg

            • Mymy88

              And what’s really funny, is a lot of people think everything will “calm down”. Sure it will (sarcasm). It would be nice if it would but it won’t. Trump is a walking uncapped stick of dynamite.

            • Frodis73

              Yeah, this is def NOT Ronnie; this is very different and not normal at all. I hate how the media is just going along with it all like he is just any other pres elect. Ho, hum, move along, nothing to see here at all. WTF?

            • Mymy88

              (refresh)

              I agree, Frodis73 but the media is only going to be able to ho hum it along for so long. I just clipped this from CNN. I don’t know what everyone is so worried about (sarcasm) . President elect Trump addressed this horrible kind of thing in a very passionate and heart felt speech (sarcasm), about how abominable this type of things is. He said “stop it” ho hum. So don’t worry. (sarcasm)
              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/151a06c624b819ac23e7f43d4a7e888d2f162dc735298edaf4e8d6d580967306.jpg

            • Mymy88

              Trump has popped the cork on America’s crazy. Enjoy everybody. Let’s celebrate! Woo hooo. Are we having fun yet? (sarcasm).

            • ithilien
            • Liberated

              Thank you.

  • JJ

    If Dr. P really wanted to help he could have helped without using her in a broadcast format.

    • Missionary Kid

      That’s true, but he at least tried to get her into a real treatment facility. Hopefully, other people will help her realize that she is delusional.

      • JJ

        Wonder if there is a power of atty in this situation. Does she have anyone who can look out for her best interests? A guardian of some kind?

        • Missionary Kid

          Someone, some time earlier, said that they are working with her mother, but until she’s proved to be a danger to herself, and she refuses medication, nothing can be done.

          • JJ

            That’s too bad, because she is suffering, but you can’t force someone to get help.

        • Frodis73

          From the show, it appears her mom is in her life and working the the dr phil show. Like MK said though, she is refusing meds and looking at alternative treatments. Too bad there are no alternative treatments for somebody as sick as she is.

  • JJ

    Hmn my discuss seems to be going wonktastic tonight…

  • FredEX2

    I recorded the episode with Shelly Duvall but haven’t watched it yet. It seems quite clear that she is not well…And from what I’ve read, …she herself has asked for ‘help’…which is very important 1st step. You cannot help someone if they don’t think they need or want ‘help’.

    I’ve been thinking about making a comment today, but didn’t quite know how to make my point…or even if my point was important…but here goes anyway. Maybe somebody can decipher it.

    Years ago when I was in nursing school and we student nurses were about to begin a 6 weeks rotation as part of our ‘clinical’ coursework…a part of our curriculum included taking care of severely mentally ill patients behind locked doors. To most all of us this was a scary prospect due to being locked in with people who’s mental health made them often hard to understand and definitely unpredictable.

    I remember several things that one of our most elder instructors told us. 1. ~was that after a few days of working with those with mental illness, we could expect to start ‘seeing’ just about everyone as having a mental health ‘issue’ or personality disorder. 2, ~was that no matter what a patient said that seemed to be ‘out there’ or ‘crazy’…we were to never ever laugh at them or invalidate someone…anyone…ill or not. Outside of listening and offering reassurance and reorienting a patient…we were never to judge someone who was already locked in their own skewed perception and experiencing a private ‘living hell’. And 3,~she told us that telling someone they ‘need help’….’is never helpful’. Listening, ~being there and helping someone realize they may benefit from having someone to ‘talk to’ and gently guiding them to seek help themselves is always a better option. Better yet, have some phone numbers & choices available for them to call…but don’t just say ‘you need help’, shut them down…and walk away. Because sometimes….a dose of real compassion is the medicine that person needs to start them on the path to seeking help and getting well.

    It was certainly true that all of us student nurses started seeing ‘unhealthy’ behaviors and craziness in everyone at large…The worn out exhausted guy in line at the grocery store appeared ‘depressed’. And that woman at the PTA meeting who always seemed worried about school safety after the recent school shootings…was now seen as overly nervous and may have an ‘anxiety disorder’. And that woman at church that was the brunt of gossip…was now possibly ‘paranoid’ bc she thought people were talking about her. …Didn’t matter that they actually were.

    Just like our instructor had warned us…we started labeling people everywhere…random individuals we didn’t even know…and those we did know…were suddenly ‘odd, paranoid, delusional and even ‘crazy’. Since then I’ve never told someone they ‘need help’. That 6 weeks working with some of the truly most mentally ill patients taught me a lesson in compassion like nothing else could. As a student and later as a nurse, I have witnessed physical suffering,…sometimes very intense and life threatening. But there’s no right words that fully describe the suffering I saw in those with a true mental illness.

    There are people…some more sensitive and less resilient than others..,with a propensity towards mental illness if overwhelmed by trauma…or harassment…and while I agree there might be a few people in the world who might read the Bunker and become fixated on certain ideas and then perceive that the known tactics of Scientology discussed here… ie; like being followed, surveilled, wire tapped…all things that are known that OSA and their volunteers actually do…are also being done to them….when these things are not really happening to them at all…but not every person who reports that they’ve been a target of Scientology…is making it all up in their heads…just because it’s not readily apparent as to ‘why’ Scientology would take after them. Paranoia is fear without cause. But fear…with cause…is not ‘paranoia’.

    Probably anyone whose been harassed by Scientology for long periods of time…will eventually need help to cope and put their lives back together. I hope we never become so saturated and tired with the topic…that we no longer want to believe they still do these things…and would rather forget that following people…harassing them…isolating them from family and friends… ~discrediting them by calling them ‘crazy’ and ‘paranoid’ or labeling them as ‘delusional’…is what THEY do…and Scientology would be more than happy that we may dismiss someone as ‘crazy’ who tries to tell a story of being harassed by them…just because there seems to be no readily observed reason for it that makes sense. Fair Game doesn’t make sense. That members of a cult believe it is ok to violate and sabotage the lives of others and harm them in any manner possible…without consequence…makes no sense. Lest we forget…it is the unbelievable nature of the Fair Game Policy and all that goes with it…that is so unbelievable…but as Steve Cannane says…you better believe it!’

    IMHO Among all those who write or call whose stories have no basis..I hope we don’t miss the stories that are true. It may be necessary to wade thru a whole lot of PTSD symptoms to get to the heart & truth of the stories…No matter what,..may we never fail to care.

    Lest it is forgotten what Scientology is capable of…there is NO reason that justifies their twisted version of ‘Justice’ or revenge…or their desire to remove an obstacle who they perceive to have influence and may get in the way of their ultimate goals.

    https://youtu.be/wY76WHmRlYA

    https://youtu.be/vdO57DVuJoU

    https://youtu.be/cKlk0EyuEog

    • JJ

      Always best to ask. The emphasis on do not assume anything about a person has to be the starting point. Ask, get clarification and care.. Very complex issues in mental health, I’m on the other side, but starting with openness and genuine concern go farther than anything else.

      • JJ

        It doesn’t surprise me the Scientology and psychology have so many bones in common and many people find or seek out answers in either or both. People have issues and they want to find a good way to deal with those issues. Problem is Scientology solutions aren’t and add, not alleviate problems. for many people any way.

        • Missionary Kid

          $cientology is a mindfuck, designed to enslave people to LRH, and now Miscavige.

          • JJ

            LRH started out courting Psychology, when they took a pass he went on a bender and made his poor science a religion.
            Figures they never came up with bullshit tech.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      I had the same worry when I read Tony’s post. Clam fair game nasty antics are more widespread, entrenched and ongoing than people think, so one can only hope that most of those reaching out to Tony and others for help are legitimate victims of the $cio $cam and are able to find understanding and some assistance.

    • This is what they do! – First you get Gaslighted, then they claim you’re Paranoid when you point it out!
      I had a person who did this constantly as he was “trained” by LRH and probably think this is normal. He was so creepy you could not believe it. Notice how Nancy Many, points out, that they will hook up with your friends and start establishing influence that way, or should we call it Undue Influence? This is so hard to expose and that’s why they do it. So this game is about, to find out how they do it and put words on this insanity. Expose them, like on here and other Social Media. Get the tools to do it!

    • madame duran

      Yaaaaaaaas!!!!!

      • Frodis73

        Isn’t she great? DM and the church sure picked the wrong woman to mess with.

        • 🙂 i am beginning to think so too!

        • ReallyMGM

          The quote by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich comes to mind: “Well-behaved women seldom make history.”

          You go, Leah. Be a Troublemaker and make some history.

    • Missionary Kid

      Here’s a my side of posts that I made earlier in reply to Leah’s video, combined and edited.
      I love it. $cientology is again hoisted on its own petard. You go, girl!

      Tiny Davy can’t (it’s theological to strike back hard, you know) just keep his, or, at least his minions’, mouths shut. The Streisand effect, now known as the Miscavige effect, is starting.

      When Leah first left, some people thought that she should be more forceful in her condemnation of $cientology. Her book, Troublemaker was obviously just an hors d’oeuvres for the main meal of poison that DM has helped her publicize. This is the main meal. Revenge sure is best served cold, and she’s serving it frozen.

      Leah’s not just a troublemaker as far as $cientology is concerned. She’s a fucking nuclear terrorist. The beauty about it is that the more DM throws shit on the wall, trying to get it to stick, the more he’s gonna eat it. Her reading of the ridiculous comments pointed at her just makes him and Co$ look worse.

      Miscavige won’t change. He’s blind to his own failures. He always blames them on someone else, so he never learns, thank goodness. He is irreplaceable, simply because he’s bringing down Co$ faster than anyone else could.

      THANK YOU LEAH!

      • ReallyMGM

        Leah is the BOSS!!!

      • BosonStark

        Leah’s book fell like a ton of bricks on the cult. Never before had a celebrity who was raised in the cult written such an intimate, candid and detailed portrait of her life and experiences with Scientology.

        No matter what names the cult wants to call her, they can’t get past the fact her book was very popular, and her public personality as well as her character on King of Queens is of a person who speaks their mind.

        This is not the reputation of Scientology’s biggest stars, Travolta and Cruise, both who fear the loss of box office and fame if they were ever to deviate from the script Scientology writes for them.

        So what if Leah capitalizes on her former religion? It wasn’t her choice to be a Scientologist, and she spent a better part of her life stewed in it, including a year of her teenage life as a slave for it. Who is more appropriate to be sensitive to the injustice and abuse of herself and others by Scientology, and to bring that information to others?

        • Missionary Kid

          I think she’s entitled to recoup some of the money she blew on Co$, if nothing else.

  • Newiga

    These peeps are awesome! We are taking over Amsterdam by storm!