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A rare gem from 1968: When the Daily Mail tracked down L. Ron Hubbard in Tunisia

LRH1968

Once again our great tipsters come through, and we just want again to express our gratitude. We’re deep into several big projects that we expect to turn into good things down the road, so for now we appreciate all the help we get from our great correspondents. (Speaking of big projects, these dog days of summer will soon end, and Scientology is going to have a very interesting autumn. We know of at least four major newspaper pieces coming, two television series, and several books, and that’s all on top of Louis Theroux’s movie, coming out in Australia in September and the UK in October. It’s going to be some cornucopia at harvest time this year!)

Today’s treat comes courtesy of a correspondent who pores through old newspaper files, tracking down things for us that may have been overlooked. He turned up a real gem this week, and we wanted to share it with you.

It’s a rare interview of L. Ron Hubbard conducted on the yacht Royal Scotman in 1968, before the ship was renamed the Apollo. The ship was docked in the Tunisian port city of Bizerte (spelled Bizerta in the article), and Daily Mail reporter Peter Smith tracked Hubbard down there for this August 6, 1968 article.

Later that same month, a television interview of Hubbard on the ship was featured on Granada TV’s World in Action program, titled “The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard.” If you’re familiar with that program, you’ll see that Peter Smith got some similar responses to his questions. But in other ways, this print interview went into some interesting areas the TV program did not.

Jon Atack mentions this Daily Mail story in his 1990 book A Piece of Blue Sky, but the article itself doesn’t appear to be online. So again, thank you tipster for tracking it down.

At the time, Scientology was going through a very controversial time in England. Hubbard, feeling the heat, had left the country the year before, and had become “Commodore” as he ran Scientology from his small armada of three ships in the Mediterranean. Foreign students continued to pour into England and studied at Saint Hill Manor, and by 1968 the government was trying to figure out how to kick them out. With that controversy reaching a fever pitch back home, the Daily Mail wanted to know what Hubbard thought of it.

 
HubbardBizerta1968

 

Mail talks to Scientology man on his yacht in Bizerta

At the court of Ron Hubbard

From Peter Smith: Bizerta, Monday

Lafayette Ron Hubbard, the Boss of all the Scientologists, is alive and well and living in Bizerta, Tunisia.

He is living very well indeed in the luxury of his 3,300-ton yacht Royal Scotman and today, in an elegant wood-panelled cabin, he spoke freely for the first time about the British Government’s recent curb on Scientology.

He spoke for 2 1/2 hours into the early hours and covered, among other things, Health Minister Kenneth Robinson, Home Secretary James Callaghan, money and his visits to Heaven and Venus.

Mr. Hubbard demolished the possibility of a public inquiry into Scientology practices.

“Public inquiry? No, nonsense. Don’t you go saying I want a public inquiry.”

He chain-smoked menthol cigarettes, fidgeted nervously in a large black leather chair. He taped the conversation.

On his desk was a sextant; behind him 16 war service miniature medals in a glass case. He wore his commodore’s cap throughout, sipping Coke and lemon from glasses engraved with the crest of the New York Explorers’ Club.

Outside, Scientologists, some in uniform and some young children, stood rigidly to attention. Inside, a girl staff photographer took pictures of the private audience.

Mr. Hubbard’s mood ranged from the boastful — “You’d be fascinated how many friends of mine there are in the British Government” — to the menacing: “I get intelligence reports from England. You’d be surprised at the dirty washing I have got.”

-Poverty-

Sometimes he was charming. “I appear to have trod on your buttons. I personally apologize.”

Sometimes he pleaded a kind of poverty: “Scientology owes me $13 million. It is the only thing I’ve gotten out of this.

“I’ve only got a very small amount in Switzerland, 100,000 francs. I don’t even know how much that is worth.”

Yes, he had sold his name to the Scientology movement for a “large amount,” but it has never been paid, he said.

Β£100,000? “About that.”

Throughout, Mr. Hubbard insisted he was no longer connected with Scientology despite the telex reports from the East Grinstead headquarters before him.

Mr. Robinson, the Health Minister, he said, would have more influence with Scientologists than he would.

He disputed Mr. Robinson’s claim of anti-social behaviour by Scientologists.

“Why hold me responsible for the aberrations of the modern world? I didn’t aberrate the world.”

He said: “Mr. Callaghan is costing the country millions of dollars keeping Scientologists out.”

But Mr. Hubbard would not deny the more specific allegations of the Daily Mail of Scientology orders splitting up husbands, wives and families. He said after a lengthy pause: “I haven’t got any real answer to that. If you say it’s true, it’s true.”

And on recruiting literature citing successes with mental patients: “If someone has released such a thing it is contrary to policy I laid down.”

As if in explanation, he added: “You cannot stop time. You cannot stop new ideas. What people do with my writing they do with my writing.”

Mr. Hubbard — “My name inspires public confidence. I’m persona grata everywhere” — has no immediate plans to return to Britain. He says he is abroad for health reasons and because “I was too many years in England.”

He is probably remaining in Bizerta for a few more weeks.

He insisted: “If I wanted to return to Britain, I’d walk in the front gate, and the Customs officer would say, ‘Hello, Mr. Hubbard.’ That’s how it’s always been, and it always will.”

-Boring-

Mr. Hubbard spoke more reluctantly of his trips farther afield, to Heaven, Venus and elsewhere in the Universe.

Of his trip to Venus he said, modestly: “Lots of people have seen Venus.”

He had discovered “Part of the genetic trace there.”

And on Heaven: “Like a bush garden in Pasadena,” he once reported. [Underground Bunker note: Hubbard actually wrote “Like Busch Gardens in Pasadena,” a specific theme park there in those days, which the Daily Mail might have been unfamiliar with.]

“My dear sir, you’re running the risk of boring me.” And then more sharply: “”They were never released, you know, these visits to Heaven. They were on confidential papers. They vanished from Saint Hill [the Scientology headquarters at East Grinstead].

“You can always find the bizarre in any subject. Any level of research contains the bizarre. But I haven’t said Scientology is bizarre.”

Mr. Hubbard said all documents in possession of the Daily Mail were forgeries, and as near to the truth as “describing a zebra in terms of a palm tree.”

He knew, he said, because he had seen them. He had spies or “friends” everywhere. He had looked through the files page by page, he said. No one was outside the scope of his intelligence network.

As he finished talking he shook hands and smiled broadly.

Outside in the corridor his followers were still there — still standing rigidly to attention.

A letter has been sent to Mr. Hubbard explaining why Mr. Callaghan will not let him back into Britain, the Home Office said yesterday.

More than 200 foreign Scientology students are being told by the Home Office to get out of Britain by the end of the month.

Hundreds more, mainly Americans, will be told to go over the next few weeks when they apply for extensions to their stay.

If they do not go, they will be deported.

The council at Croydon, Surrey, is to stand by its agreement to let Scientologists hold a three-day national congress at a municipal hall in the town.

A Dutch Scientologist, 42-year-old Evert Doeve, was ordered to leave Britain within seven days by East Grinstead magistrates yesterday. He pleaded guilty to staying in the country unlawfully after July 18. He was fined Β£20.

 
It’s interesting to see that Hubbard did not deny the contents of his trips to “Heaven,” only that they were supposed to be secret. He described his two visits to heaven in a 1963 bulletin, saying that he had gone there 43 trillion years ago, and then again 42 trillion years ago. (Or, in Hubbard’s amusing exactitude, “42,681,459,477,315 years, 132 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 15 seconds from 11:02Β½ PM Daylight Greenwich Time May 9, 1963.” Gosh, that e-meter sure is a precise instrument!)

It’s fun to compare the responses he gave here to the filmmakers at Granada TV’s World in Action for a program that came out later that month.

 

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on August 17, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • flyonthewall

    f5 for Lego Aegerprimo chillin in the Bunker.

    • Observer

      <3!!

      • flyonthewall

        hope she sees it 2nt

        • Observer

          Third, now

    • burythenuts

      U Not right….

      U not left either….

      • flyonthewall

        everything is funnier with afros

        • burythenuts

          Yep…you should have been there during my junior year……..!!!!

    • Libertylover

      I’m getting much better with my building, Fly.
      I just got this Lego “SP” piece of Bricklink and am going to try to do something Scio as my own MOC. Inspiration hasn’t hit me yet but I’ve gotten a ton more used bricks on Craig’s list and want to follow in your steps LOL.

      • flyonthewall

        wow, love the 80’s font! What’s it from, you know?

        πŸ™‚ Well the non-scio stuff you built was really amazing, idk if I could do stuff like that. Mini builds are harder than people realize. Your pics were good quality too, unlike mine.

        • Libertylover

          I don’t know what it’s from, I wanted to make the Mars Rover Cuusoo set and its 140 bucks on ebay. I ordered the parts for 30 and made it myself. The place I was ordering from had this for a few pennies and I threw it in.
          I can’t wait for the new Ideas sets. The Beatles Yellow Submarime and the Apollo rocket are must buys.
          Also love the new minifigs especially the tiny baby that comes with the babysitter.

          • flyonthewall

            You should put a motor in that rover!

            yes, ditto on the minifigs. There’s also a baby like that in the new park set and a wheelchair too. Pretty amazing.

            Haven’t heard of the Apollo and Submarine yet but the VW Bug is pretty sweet. We have the van and it’s one of the best builds ever. I was on a huge Speed Champion binge earlier, not the F1’s though, and now I have like 12 of them lol. Thinking of making a drive-in theater with a kindle as the screen but held up with bricks etc. Should be fun.

            • Libertylover

              You think you could fit a motor in that rover? It’s the smaller Curiosity one not the earlier Discovery channel one.
              I was thinking of getting the VW camper myself, but I’d have to jazz it up with the after market chrome set and the light package. There is a nice Youtube video that shows one with both.
              Yep they are doing the Beatles, all four in Minifig and sub. It got 10,000 votes and they accepted it too! I don’t know how long it takes to make a set but I’m thinking after Christmas in the spring maybe? I’m gonna have to get 2.
              Drive in sounds awesome and the racers are nice, but I’m really into the buildings right now.

            • flyonthewall

              yeah my mother in law is a huge fan and she just retired, sounds like perfect gift. She just saw Paul McCartney in concert too. Guy sold out freakin Busch Stadium. Crazy

            • Libertylover

              He’s a legend!

            • Libertylover

              This is the fan model, I’m sure they will jazz up the minifigs and make a few changes but still looks awesome.

            • flyonthewall

              gtfo right now, are you kidding me?? That thing better open up so they can sit inside

            • Libertylover

              Yep it does.F5

            • flyonthewall

              *sigh* better start savin, lol

  • Robert Eckert

    OT, just in case there are any nerds on this site:
    https://www.facebook.com/SBS2Australia/videos/910366729057958/

    • flyonthewall

      i seriously doubt there are any nerds on the scientology watching site

      • burythenuts

        Yep, me too. Can’t possibly happen.

        • flyonthewall

          *whispers* I think Robert’s drunk!

          • Justmeteehee

            Jeez I’ve missed the funny’s here, glad to be back 😊

            • flyonthewall

              yeah where you been??

            • Justmeteehee

              I came back from Jamaica with pneumonia but I’m feeling really good again the past two days 😊

            • flyonthewall

              ouch! Glad you’re ok and posting again

      • Jimmy3

        *sigh*
        Looks like I’ll be giving myself a wedgie again.

        • Observer

          Don’t forget to turn on the charm!

        • flyonthewall

          maybe do a swirly? Switch it up a bit

        • What’sup

          Gimme ya lunch money nerd. I accept bitcoins.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Again? Do you often give yourself wedgies?

    • jazzlover

      Freakin’ hilarious πŸ™‚ Thanks for helping me channel my inner nerd today.

    • order66

      As far I’m concerned, nerds and geeks are different. Nerds prefer science fiction/Star Trek. Geeks prefer fantasy/Star Wars. And yes, Star Wars is fantasy.
      Nerds, at least in my experience, lean more toward the secular/atheist side. Geeks tend to lean more toward the spiritual. I mean the Force was a spiritual thing until the Bearded One tried to make it scientific. Fuck midi-chlorians.
      Nerds will take abuse from bullies. Geeks fight back. I always fought back.
      Anyway, that’s my perspective.

      • jazzlover

        I’m a music nerd, and I find it TOTALLY spiritual. Another view from the dark side.

        • order66

          Yeah, I’ve known full-on nerds who were spiritual in some way. And fantasy geeks who were obnoxious about their atheism. It’s definitely not an either-or thing. More of a guideline.

          • jazzlover

            Ok. I thought you were trying to channel YOUR inner L Ron πŸ™‚ And for what it’s worth, in my experience, most who feel the need to state that they’re atheists are pretty obnoxious about and proud of it. It comes off as a “view from above”, as in not being stupid like those who do have religious beliefs, whatever they may be.

            • order66

              I realized afterward that I kind of shot from the hip, and may have come off as a dick. Geek/nerd, Wars/Trek is a subject that gets me going. And those obnoxious in your face atheists don’t realize that they come off just as bad as religious zealots. Irony.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. I tried to be as subtle as possible. Irony is fun πŸ™‚ All I’m trying to point out is that there are no rules — just shades of gray. It’s similar to all the stat geeks thinking that past performance is a suitable way to predict future performance.

            • order66

              You got me, what’s a stat geek? Is that a sports thing?

            • jazzlover

              Yes it is. I apologize — I just assumed everyone was aware of the phenomenon whereby more and more people running teams are assembling those teams based on analytics only. Analytics are ways to assess performance statistically through a multitude of categories. The idea that statistics are anything other than a way to judge the past is one of the biggest fallacies in mathematics.

            • order66

              So it’s using math to predict how well athletes will do in the future. Sounds ridiculous.

            • jazzlover

              Yes, believe it or not. It’s been the “new thing” for about a decade or so (maybe longer). It drives me absolutely batty πŸ™‚ Sports fans are now analyzing anything that they can analyze, as long as there are numbers attached to it. One used to be able to tell how good an athlete was or wasn’t by using his eyes. That seems to have been almost completely discarded.

            • order66

              Sounds like another reason for me to ignore the most obnoxious of the sports fans. Hard to do in a college football town.

            • jazzlover

              Due to the NCAA’s obvious negligence and greed, I don’t even follow college sports (or any sport that gets fed mainly by colleges) anymore.

            • order66

              I’m a graduate of the University of Oklahoma, and I can see the football stadium from my front door. My whole family is OU fans, and OU is one of the major powers in college football. Being the one guy who doesn’t give a damn about sports of any kind means I mentally tune out of a lot of conversations.

            • jazzlover

              Good for you. Honestly, I can’t even follow professional football or basketball anymore. They’re just businesses now whose sole purpose is to support the gambling industry. Hockey’s my thing, and let’s face it, the majority of hockey players don’t go to college. With baseball, the main artery into the sport is now Latin America, so no college there either.

            • order66

              My cousin is an otherwise good guy who can be one of those obnoxious sports fans who will go on for hours about some game. One day, I spent twenty minutes bending his ear about Star Wars and superhero minutia that only fans would care about. Then I said, “Now you know how I feel when you blather on about sports.” He learned his lesson.

            • jazzlover

              That’s funny. It’s sounds like he was a willing participant in the lesson, though. I suppose that if he was a narcissist, he would have changed the subject almost immediately πŸ™‚

            • order66

              He’s one of the few from his branch of the family tree that I actually like.

            • jazzlover

              I know how that goes.

      • Mockingbird

        Order 66 was pretty violent dude ( or dudette ?), how could you !

        • order66

          Dude. Order 66 had to be carried out. The Supreme Chancellor determined that the Jedi were a threat to order and stability. It was sadly necessary.

          • Mockingbird

            No ! The Chancellor was a Sith Lord ! Darth Sidious !

            • order66

              Rebel propaganda.

            • Mockingbird

              πŸ™

          • Mockingbird

            It’s hard to tell with that stormtrooper armor. My poor Jedi. I will always have the old republic.

      • kemist

        I don’t know what I am then.

        I’ve always been more of a Star Wars / fantasy fan, and I’m quite unspiritual.

        I don’t dislike “hard” sci-fi, but it annoys me when stories get things I know about wrong – and since I have a strong background in 2 different disciplines, I get to spot things I know are wrong quite often.

        For example : there will be a representation of a chemical reaction drawn on a board, and the characters will go on about it saying completely nonsensical things. Like that they have to “solve” the “formula” (hint: you don’t “solve” chemical equations, they’re not math but a shorthand representation of a chemical equilibrium). Or, there will be an image of a character’s picture taken from a public camera, and it will be zoomed and zoomed apparently to infinity, without anyone wondering where all those magical pixels come from. And don’t get me started about movies and series where there is “hacking” (facepalm).

        In fantasy, you generally don’t have that problem. Things happen and no one gives a pseudoscientific exposΓ© about why they happen that way . There are just internal rules to the story, and that’s how it is (and yes, fuck midichlorians, they were a sad violation of that rule).

        • order66

          The spiritual or not thing is more of a guideline than a rule. In science fiction the technology is usually integral to the story, and tech types might find that more interesting. In fantasy, you get magic, or something semi-divine that can’t be explained, and that drives the story.
          A nerd could fix the Enterprise if it crashed in his backyard. A geek wouldn’t know how to fix the hyperdrive on the Millenium Falcon.

  • Robert Eckert
    • jazzlover

      Nice to see that karma can still be a bitch if she wants to.

    • flyonthewall

      god is just testing him

      • OOkpik

        Carry on, god!

  • PappeKak
    • Mockingbird

      That’s beautiful and accurate.

  • Last time I went to heaven, it was in my bedroom.

    • Mockingbird

      Is that a sex reference ? Remember, I am an ex cult member, so my emotional maturity may be that of a much younger person ! Only G rated materials are allowed for me, unless I get a note from from my grown adult children. Doh.

      • flyonthewall

        yeah right, stop fishing for details pervert

        • Mockingbird

          Ha ha. I love pretending to be innocent.

        • Mockingbird

          I can’t get details. I don’t have a permission slip. πŸ™

      • jazzlover

        You do have children, don’t you? Unless they’re immaculate too?

        • Mockingbird

          Yes, but most of that happened while I was a cult member and doesn’t count !

          • jazzlover

            LOL. Hopefully you haven’t told them that.

            • Mockingbird

              Talk about “it’s complicated” !

    • flyonthewall

      …..

      • Mockingbird

        What a judgemental glare. I feel like I’m back in ethics !

      • beauty for ashes

        We are gonna have to keep stats on how often you use this gif, also the crying Italian.

    • beauty for ashes

      Reminds me of that scene in “The Green Mile”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYzFKizikU

  • Mockingbird

    I found some interesting quotes from the Scientology tape on the Helatrobus Implants which a Bunkeroo was kind enough to share below.

    Hubbard mentioned people calling Scientology a cult ! Always interesting to me.

    Here’s Hubbard:

    You’d be surprised the degree that we use incredulity as a protective security mechanism in Scientology. Just never forget that. Because it’s a marvelous one, it’s a marvelous one. “Oh, that Scientology, it’s balderdash! Those people believe — that cult believes…” and so forth. I very often feel like just patting those horses’ heads just very smoothly and nicely and neatly and saying, “Good show, brother, good show. Thank you.” Because they’re operating as a security screen far more effective than any security screen any of us could devise. You realize that the psychiatrist has just now found birth and prenatals. He’s been chewing away on birth and prenatals for some time now and he’ll eventually graduate up to it, but what’s to stop some Russian from putting these — one of these banks on a tape recorder and playing it off to somebody? What’s to stop them? They don’t think they’ll go nuts. The only thing that will stop them is because, “Well, those Scientologists, they have some ridiculous beliefs.” And that actually will protect us right up, straight up to the point when we don’t need any protection, which point will happen suddenly. So don’t always revile this type of an attitude. Ron Hubbard end quote

    • PappeKak

      “There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. [b]The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.[/b]”

      – L. Ron Hubbard, “SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL”

      • Mockingbird

        The classic, quietly and without sorrow. Justification for a lot.

        • PappeKak

          “Truth is an all-freeing mechanism.” – L. Ron Hubbard

          https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1967/4736/original.jpg

          “Actions speak louder than words.” – PappeKak

          • Mockingbird

            Ha ha . Orwell had nothing on Hubbard. Hubbard read 1984 and used the appendix as a guide. He used work on totalitarian regimes as an instruction manual, not a warning.

  • Mockingbird

    Here’s another quote from the Helatrobus Implants tape. Here’s the idea Scientologists use on John Mappin’s Facebook comments and Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder’s comments ( not Mike and Marty themselves) sections if you dig very, very deep.

    The Scientologists, including indies, accept Hubbard’s idea that critics CAN’T understand Scientology or they would accept it. Jeffrey Augustine would call it a tautology from Hubbard: understand Scientology and you are sane enough to understand it, disagree with Hubbard and you prove you aren’t aware or sane enough. End of story.

    The Scientologists just criticize Tony Ortega and Lawrence Wright for not having done OT VIII. If I engage them they assume I couldn’t have done any Scientology services since I am so critical and use language from cognitive dissonance theory, logical fallacies and Socratic debate. It’s like I am from a different planet.

    Here’s Hubbard:

    That’s a technical statement I just made and has a lot to do with your engram running. It’s directly proportional His effort to remember increases the solidity of his bank, which is painful to him, which then brings about his statement concerning unreality. See, that’s proportional. The amount of unreality evinced by a case, then, is proportional to the amount of solidity caused in his time track by his efforts to remember. If his bank goes solid every time he tries to remember something this becomes painful, so then he counters this by saying it is unreal. This fellow that tells you, “I don’t believe in past lives” is saying, “My time track goes solid when I try to remember.” And it has an awful lot to do with you as an auditor, because that case that evinces great unreality must be given very gentle handling and you cannot run an engram on that case. Not only — you must not run an engram on that case, because the bank will go solid. Ron Hubbard

    • PappeKak

      “I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys.” – L. Ron Hubbard, 1967 (letter to wife)

      • Mockingbird

        Well, that is a make break point. Most Scientologists don’t believe it. Like the affirmations a person usually has to progress a lot up to realizing these quotes could be authentic.

        • PappeKak

          “MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.” – L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter) 9 March 1972

    • The whole argument of TO never been in session and therefore don’t know about stuff, is stupid and beyond me! Worst argument Evar he he

      • Mockingbird

        It’s a logical fallacy. It can be genetic fallacy, appeal to authority, no true Scotsman, ad hominem, tu quoque.

        Hubbard used em all. It’s a very poor substitute for logic but hey we human beings not thinks too good !

        Seriously, thinking in an entirely rational and analytical way isn’t human nature. We have cognitive distortions and a variety of things in our basic nature that are bad for good reason.

        It takes a lot of work just to find our flaws, good luck correcting them.

  • Ella Raitch

    Seeing that photo makes my visit to the dentist this morning seem like a good investment rather than the charge of a wounded bull.

    • beauty for ashes

      Yes! you should give yourself a pat on the back, and say “congratulations for having good oral hygiene!”
      I’ve heard the more teeth you have later in life the happier you are. πŸ™‚

      • Ella Raitch

        I’m catching up for about a decade, but it’s not as bad as I thought.

        • beauty for ashes

          What a relief! πŸ™‚

  • Liberated

    I think one of reasons L Ron never wanted to see his followers, (besides his intense paranoia ) he didn’t want anyone to see how butt-ugly he was.

    • beauty for ashes

      Even children confront their fears of the dentist. C’mon Hubturd!

  • Frodis73

    Just saw this at Raw Story so I am going to leave this right here. f5

    • Mockingbird

      Ha. Racists usually consider other races as less than human and unworthy of the rights they demand. Prejudice is a very usual part of human psychology. It can vary greatly but is usually present to some degree.

  • Mockingbird

    For your musical entertainment.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OxExUqdGa0Y

  • salin

    Forget made up ‘space stories’ – here is a beautiful image to the interaction of space and earth. Beautiful Aurora captured in Sweden. Shared with you as a reminder to click the recommend for the days thread.

    http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=128451&PHPSESSID=70v6n64uaft01115b4ob7qmra0

    • beauty for ashes

      Any thunderstorms on Venus, Salin?

      • salin

        I was on this train in Venus…

        Oh, hell – I can’t go there it’s so absurd. πŸ˜€

  • Supper Powers

    Hi all. I’ll be taking a brief leave of absence due to an unexpected illness. I will prolly read every day, but commenting will be limited. Just FYI, I’m not rage quitting, like some flies we know. πŸ™‚ See you soon!

    • daisy

      I hope everybody is fine. Take care of them or you. See you back soon. I will miss you.

    • salin

      Take care of you. I doubt I am alone in saying that nothing is more important than you, tending to you or your someone in our family’s health. Sending hugs.

      Have had to do the absence thing – for other reasons. I am woefully out of touch with the commenting community – but the community seems to be understanding.

      • daisy

        No I am not. You should be here daily. So should Sherb.

        • salin

          *grin* thank you Daisy. I appreciate the indirect hug that you just gave me. I am giving you a hug as well.

        • Daisy is a community πŸ™‚

          • daisy

            I am as big as one.

            • Meme the Cat is thinking F5

            • Liberated

              I’m getting the impression Meme owns your ass.

            • She does! and she is very demanding

            • Liberated

              I’ve been owned by many cats in my life, makes me feel like I’m doing something
              right.

            • You got it πŸ™‚ I never thought it would happen to me… but i am sold and in debt by this Cat.

            • Liberated

              Don’t let her treat you wrong!

            • beauty for ashes

              WHOOZAH KITTEH!!!!

      • Liberated

        Hope you’re having a great new school year, I still can’t get over how early kids start now days.
        I’m from the day after Labor Day mind set.
        Things change.
        Too bad the day you return you’re confronted with LRon’s disgusting teeth. I feel for ya!
        Happy you’re back.

    • OOkpik

      ((HUGS))

    • Kim O’Brien

      take care of yourself please ..:)

    • Ella Raitch

      Take care sweetheart

    • beauty for ashes

      Much LOOOOVEE!!!!! <3 <3 <3 Thanks for letting us know. Let us know if we can help.
      ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS AND GOOD DRUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

  • daisy

    Just to let everyone know excellent commenting today but discus sux so only a few upvotes here and there. It is no reflection on you.

    • Liberated

      Now you tell me.

    • stanrogers

      So “scrolling to the middle of nowhere, then briefly blanking the entire screen” is not a desirable new feature of the upvote button that users have been clamouring for? (There are a lot of web UI “features” I just don’t get at all, so when weird feces occur I often assume that it’s just because what I’m with isn’t it, and what’s it is weird and scary to me.)

    • Liberated

      You spelled sucks wrong.

      • daisy

        No upvote for you !

        • Liberated

          Just for that I’m calling you a bunker tramp. Ha!

    • beauty for ashes

      Thank you Daisy, for every upvote, on every not well thought out comment, by me. You are a loyal bunker upvote officer who’s stats are unbeatable. Fat beagle is going to going to give you your prize~ **crackling of walkie talkie** Okay Fat beagle give her her prize!!!
      Fat Beagle?…c’mon…She’s totally not moving is she?
      She’s pretending she can’t hear me again dammit!
      *edited for gender correctness*

      • Ella Raitch

        I think we need more fat beagle photos, myself….

        • beauty for ashes

          YES! especially dressed up ones πŸ™‚

          • daisy

            This is not her, but she looks exactly like this only adult. I haven’t taken a picture of her to post. ( I haven’t any idea how to do that anyhow .

            • Ella Raitch

              Gyms are for people in denial over their DNA

            • beauty for ashes

              DAISY DAISY WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! SHERBS IS HERE!!!!!! PRESENT TIME!!!!! CALLLING ALL DAISIES COME IN DAISY!!!! SHERBS!!!!! **RUNNING IN CIRCLES SCREAMING***

        • daisy

          She like me is in the witness protection program.

      • daisy

        Fat beagle*s personality is as close to a cat as can be. She completely ignores me , cuddles when She wants and that is rare, She seems discusted with me all the time. If we are out for a walk , frankly I think she is ashamed to be seen with me. The only prize she would give me willingly is her shed fur.

        • beauty for ashes

          Now you tell me. I’m sorry I called her he !

  • Mockingbird
    • salin

      *Gasp*

      • Mockingbird

        Yeah.

    • Bavarian Rage

      Insert Facebook shocked emoticon here, cuz I can’t bring myself to upvote that comment, though I appreciate your sharing of it.

    • Libertylover

      He read Mein Kampf and changed his mind on everything? I doubt it as it’s a boring rambling read, just like Dianetics. But intelligent people think Dianetics is a masterpiece. I’m sure he already held those views for other reasons. Hitler made a small fortune on selling that book to everyone and then never paid any taxes.
      I’m so sick of this election that has deteriorated into something more akin to following sports teams.
      No one is really talking about any of the issues and it seems more like WWF everyday.
      Aw shucks, i broke my rules about talking politics but I thought the internet and information age was going to make us all smarter but it seems that many just live in their own partisan bubbles instead.

      • Idiocracy was a utopian rather than dystopian movie because, even though they were all idiots, when they had a serious problem, they found the smartest guy around and gave him the job of fixing it.

      • Mockingbird

        I have posted hundreds of articles on issues.

        • Libertylover

          Not You, I meant the politicians and their populist rhetoric.
          You are one of the most thoughtful, inquisitive and intelligent posters here. I enjoy your posts.
          Anytime I find myself getting annoyed here, I simply have to go to most any other site, like my local paper, to see how special his place is here. Maybe it’s just so easy to all agree how horrid Scientology is and unite against it, but it’s more than that.
          The local papers comments are just childish squabbling and name calling for the most part and they attack each other and their sources and there is little debate. I usually just read the comments for extra info on local stories not in the article.
          Maybe I’m just getting old and crotchety, but I do like how people talk about issues here and aren’t so angry, as everyone else seems to me to be.

          • Mockingbird

            Sorry

    • daisy

      Yup that seems about right.

      • Mockingbird

        Disturbing.

    • 0tessa

      This is very disturbing.
      Where are they going to put all those ‘parasites’? In concentration camps?
      This is no longer just ‘populism’, this is fascism.

      • Mockingbird

        I considered it fascism a long time ago.

  • ithilien

    busch gardens was located next to jack parsons house in pasadena

    • Mockingbird

      It’s a blast.

  • Bavarian Rage

    Ugh, those teeth. Like rotten little cigarette butts standing at attention. And those fish lips. It never gets any easier to look at. He sure as heck never won no Scientology prizes. Luckily for him he at least got free trip to Venus.

    • beauty for ashes

      I would love to hear from a dentist just how bad it has to be for him to look like that. Or maybe not a graphic description, and definitely no pictures **shudders** Nevermind I’m sure its really really bad.

      • kemist

        I have a friend who is a dentist.

        She did not know who he was when I showed her his picture. His mouth is the first thing she noticed about him. She just stared and stared at his mouth in horrified fascination.

  • beauty for ashes

    Which fish looks more like Hubbard?

    • beauty for ashes

      …this one?

      • noseinabk

        Blob fish wins for the gross factor.

        • beauty for ashes

          It actually has mayonnaise running through it’s veins. ;p

          • OOkpik

            If it’s Hellmann’s, I’ll bite.

    • beauty for ashes

      or this one with the crimson cyst?

      • noseinabk

        This one is good but pretty much any ugly bottom feeder will do.
        Word cleared it for OSA:
        Definition of bottom–feeder

        1.a fish that feeds at the bottom
        2. one that is of the lowest status or rank
        3. an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune

    • Helen Van Patterson Patton

      Large Mouth Bass
      [img]http://i.imgur.com/vtvZtok.jpg[/img]

      • beauty for ashes

        I dunno Helen, where is the element of decrepitude?

        • Helen Van Patterson Patton

          Better?
          [img]http://i.imgur.com/2T7SeDD.jpg[/img]

          • beauty for ashes

            OMG~ No it toootally looks like Tommy Davis though!

    • Qbird

      this ~

      • beauty for ashes

        **wheezing gigglefits**…it’s a predator head!

      • noseinabk

        We spent a good five minutes or so cracking up over watching a fish like this smacking itself in the head trying to get off the pier. We wouldn’t normally torture a catch and release so long but we couldn’t stop laughing.

  • Fink Jonas

    He said after a lengthy pause: β€œI haven’t got any real answer to that. If you say it’s true, it’s true.
    Reality for Hubbard was agreement so the translation to his answer above would be; “I’m not agreeing with you on that or denying it, it might be true for all I care”…. is part of the how to give a “no answer” to reporters from he com course.

  • Every time i refresh i see hubbards ugly face πŸ™ here is something pretty to look at F5

  • Fink Jonas

    His visits to heaven were such a long time ago my brain can’t even comprehend, they must be true.

  • Omg! Look at Tory Magoo as young Ohh My! F5

    • Dave Reams

      She’s still a vixen : )

      • Ella Raitch

        Formidable!

        • Tory Christman

          πŸ™‚ Thank you, Ella!

        • Is that English or French? Never mind – it’s true both ways.

      • Tory Christman

        Thanks, Dave!

    • Tory Christman

      HEY, Dice…..where did you find that at?

      • OOkpik

        Hi, gorgeous. *waves*

      • You tube πŸ™‚

  • cinfrance

    How Hubbard and his reputation ever survived that extraordinary English ‘World in Action’ film I’ll never know ….

    • In pre-Internet days, it was broadcast once, in the UK, and was easy to miss – you couldn’t even record it, because there were no domestic video recorders.

      Would-be gurus don’t get such an easy ride from technology these days.

  • Jimmy3

    @Nat-leficient @Nat-leftincident does this actually work?

  • Graham

    In America Gold medal winning Olympians get taxed on the value of the medal they’ve won, despite enhancing their country’s image. Meanwhile “religious” con-artists accumulate millions tax free despite making their country look ridiculous. Go figure.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37099066

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Fuck it is too hard to listen to this old man. Ugh.”The real hooker in $cientology is the E-meter” He He!

  • Lighthouse

    Listening to this, I’ve heard it before, gives me the creeps. He’s suave, pompous, arrogant. It’s a amazing we bought this bullshit! But we did!

    I’m glad and relieved beyond words that he’s been caught out for what he truly was. I want it to hit society in a big way just what a cruel, manipulating bastard and conman he was. The world should know and know soon.

    • pluvo

      The unflattering interview from Tunisia was of course not shown (for info/promotion) but the one at St Hill with Tony Hitchman who was more cautious with his questions and certainly it was edited differently.

      This is a short version with excerpts, the longer version (59:00): https://www. youtube “dot” com/watch?v=0K7pW9QMew8

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U451kQ_4Qww

  • DJ

    Body Language 101 (from real science): You can tell someone is lying when they look down and to the right before or during answering. The overdone ‘smile’ is also a common cover-up.
    Watch any part of this video again with that in mind.

  • Gerard Plourde

    So evidence of disconnection existed as far back as 1968 and Hubbard didn’t deny it. The fish does stink from the head.