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When the feds tracked down L. Ron Hubbard’s boast about getting rich by creating a religion

MV4Hubbard

 
We’re nearing another big anniversary — 30 years since the Great Thetan, L. Ron Hubbard, dropped his material body — and so we’ve been looking through our files for material about the man that isn’t already picked over. We have something pretty nice and never posted online for the anniversary itself. But along the way we also found some items we thought you’d like to see.

The other day, one of our commenters asked about Isaac Asimov and whether Hubbard had ever told him his line that the only way to make a million dollars was to invent a religion. Previously, we concluded that Hubbard did, indeed, make that statement to several different people in the period 1948-1949, before publication of his 1950 book Dianetics. Asimov was probably not one of them, however.

We say that because Asimov himself said he saw little of Hubbard, and not during that period. We know this because it turns out that Asimov was interviewed by FDA inspectors during its investigation of Hubbard after raiding the Scientology org in Washington DC in 1963. Researcher R.M. Seibert has turned up a wealth of great stuff after convincing the FDA to turn over documents from that investigation, resulting in stories here at the Bunker revealing Hubbard’s high school grades for the first time, for example, and that Hubbard had told John McMaster that he intended to be reincarnated as the future son of his daughter Diana.

Seibert reminded us that another result of that document haul was evidence that Asimov had been interviewed, as well as another science fiction author, A.E. van Vogt, and that the inspectors confirmed on their own that Hubbard did indeed make the statement about starting a religion as the only way to make a million dollars. We have excerpts of those reports for you today.

On Valentine’s Day in 1963, FDA inspector Howard I. Niss interviewed professor Isaac Asimov, looking for information about L. Ron Hubbard. Here are the notes of that interview:

Inspector Bearon, in his memo, suggests that a Professor Isaac Asimov of Boston University might have information relative to Mr. Hubbard’s character and background.

Isaac Asimov is Assistant Professor of micro biology at Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts. He has classes one day a week on Thursday and writes science fiction and books of science during the remainder of the week. His home is at 45 Greenough Street, Newton, Massachusetts.

I interviewed Professor Asimov at the School of Medicine. He told me that he knew very little about Mr. Hubbard and had met him only three times, the first time was in 1939 at a publishing firm office where they were introduced and that was the extent of this first meeting. He later met Mr. Hubbard in 1943 or 1944 at the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Navy Yard where Mr. Hubbard was a visitor. Mr. Hubbard had lunch with a group which included Professor Asimov and the next day the Professor met him while he was on tour of the Navy Yard. Professor Asimov had no other contacts with Mr. Hubbard. He said that he believed that he was an officer in the Armed Forces in World War II. He was not sure whether he was in the Navy or the Army but presumed that he was in the Navy as he was touring the Navy Yard when he met him in ’43 or ’44.

Professor Asimov thought that John W. Campbell, Jr., Editor of Analog of Science Fact and Science Fiction, could probably supply further information about Hubbard. He said that Mr. Campbell had been associated with Hubbard in Dianetics and then severed his connections with him. Mr. Campbell lives at 1457 Orchard Road, Mountainside, New Jersey. His telephone numbers is Adams 3-3420. He is employed by Conde Nast Publications of New York, New York.

He also told me that Joseph A. Winter, M.D., now deceased, was a brother-in-law of Mr. Campbell and he had written a book entitled “A Doctor Looks at Dianetics.”

In my discussion with Professor Asimov, he told me that Time magazine had published a detrimental article about Mr. Hubbard at the time he was engaged in a divorce suit. He thought that this article appeared some time in 1953 or 1954.

He said that there was one other person that might know a great deal about Hubbard; a Mr. A.E. van Vogt of Los Angeles, who had been a “bigshot” in Dianetics on the west coast. Van Vogt had contined the west coast operations after the east coast had simmered down. He felt that van Vogt would be a good source of information if he would talk. Professor Asimov said that he did not know van Vogt personally but because of his connections (van Vogt’s) he felt that he, if anyone, should know a great deal about Mr. Hubbard.

It is quite possible that the Administration knows of Mr. van Vogt.

 
Based on that recommendation by Asimov, two more FDA inspectors — D.L. Dovel and Dale E. Harper — paid a visit to author A.E. van Vogt in Los Angeles two weeks after the Asimov interview.

Pursuant to DRM request of 2/28/63, Inspector Dale E. Harper and I Interviewed A.E. van Vogt at his headquarters. He is presently operating a Dianetics center in Hollywood at 7089 Hawthorn called Hollywood Dianetics. Although van Vogt was the Director of the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation in Los Angeles until he severed his connections with Hubbard in 1950, he furnished us with very little factual information.

He stated that he first met Hubbard in 1945. As they were both science fiction writers, the two men had a common bond. He was unable to provide any background on Hubbard other than from his limited personal experience with the man.

The subject took an interest in Hubbard’s ideas and became his associate, rising to the head of the Los Angeles office of the organization. In 1949 another member of the organization told van Vogt that Hubbard was beginning to adopt a metaphysical philosophy with respect to the cult. As van Vogt stated he as of the “rational school,” and against bringing in any religious or metaphysical ideas into the organization, a basis of conflict between the two men was now apparent. In 1950 Hubbard only proposed that the organization adopt the new religious ideology to van Vogt and the remainder of the following.

About half the group went along with Hubbard and his ideas, however, van Vogt and the remainder split off from the organization to continue with a strictly Dianetics approach. The Dianetics group was then formed which van Vogt now heads.

According to van Vogt he was seen Hubbard only three times since their split in 1950…Once in 1951, 1953, and 1954. He stated when he saw Hubbard in 1954, it was at one of Hubbard’s lectures in Phoenix. He did not have any conversation with Hubbard at this last meting of the two men. Van Vogt stated that he has had no communication or connection with Hubbard or his organization since they came to the parting of the ways. He claims he does not have any knowledge of the cult’s current activities.

While he was associated with Hubbard, van Vogt stated that he knew very little of Hubbard’s actual activities. He explained “Hubbard may have many followers, but he does not have any friends.” He mentioned that Hubbard was out of town most of the time during their association. Hubbard would not disclose his plans to his wife according to van Vogt, as Hubbard would leave on a trip without even giving her notice of his plans to take a trip. Van Vogt sated “no one really gets close to, or really knows Hubbard.”

We asked van Vogt if he thought Hubbard were normal with respect to the latter’s mental state. After some thought on the matter, van Vogt would offer no definite comment. We also inquired if he thought Hubbard were sincere in his endeavors. He replied that he thought the man was very sincere and “believed every word of it.” Van Vogt stated that Hubbard “knew advertising and how to attract a crowd.” Otherwise, he knew very little of the character or activities of Hubbard and his organization.

He thought Hubbard may have been married four times as he said he once saw a letter from a woman in New Orleans who intimated that she was once married to Hubbard. He did not remember the woman’s name or any other facts about this alleged marriage. Hubbard may have taken some courses at UCLA, according to van Vogt.

Mr. van Vogt was unable to supply any additional details. He impressed the inspectors that he knew a great deal more than he told us during our interview. From the appearance of van Vogt’s operation, it is the inspector’s opinion that his version of the organization is not very successful. He may have retained much information because he is currently operating a similar type organization as to the form practised during his association with L. Ron Hubbard.

Van Vogt’s parting remarks to the Inspectors was that we could gain a better picture of the “Hubbard type” by reading his (Van Vogt’s) new book, “The Violent Man.”

— D.L. Dovel, Inspector
Dale E. Harper, Inspector

 
The van Vogt interview reminds us that not everyone who got on board for the Dianetics craze in 1950 was happy with the direction Hubbard went in two years later when he created “Scientology.” Remember, the title of his 1950 book was Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, and Hubbard claimed that his new “science” was based on years of research and hundreds of clinical cases (evidence of which has never turned up). After the disastrous year of 1951, when his marriage to Sara Northrup went sour and Hubbard fled to Cuba after kidnapping his own daughter Alexis, Hubbard regrouped in Wichita with the help of oilman millionaire Don Purcell. But he’d lost the use of the word “Dianetics” in bankruptcy, and so Hubbard had to start over, and came up with the name Scientology. And this time, he wasn’t going to be satisfied with asking followers to remember their experiences in the womb. Encouraged by some of his more imaginative fans, Hubbard now encouraged them to go back farther, to “remember” past lives.

This is what van Vogt and other early Dianeticists objected to. If they could somehow suspend their disbelief long enough to remember when they were egg, sperm, or zygote and had gone through rough times in mom’s uterus, going even farther back to past lives was just too much. This was dramatized in Paul Thomas Anderson’s 2012 movie The Master, as the Hubbard character, played by Philip Seymour Hoffman, runs into problems with followers like the one played by Laura Dern. This was no longer even a pretend “science,” it was now pure fantasy, as the Hoffman character admits (ouch). And so in real life: Some early Dianeticists, convinced that Hubbard was on to something before he went off the deep end, remained loyal to the early idea of auditing “pre-natal” engrams, and here in 1963, van Vogt is still gamely carrying on with his small group in Los Angeles. But even the FDA inspectors can see that it was “not very successful.”

The FDA’s battle with Scientology — over the health claims Hubbard was making for the E-meter — dragged on in court for years after the 1963 raid. Inspectors were still looking for material to use when, in 1970, they decided to track down the truth about rumors that Hubbard had boasted, in 1948, about starting a religion as the only way to make a million dollars. One place where he said it, with multiple witnesses, was a November 1948 meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association in Newark, New Jersey. In the summer of 1970, FDA inspector Charles Everline decided to track down those witnesses, including the well known science fiction collector Sam Moskowitz.

MEMORANDUM OF INTERVIEW — August 30, 1970

Between: Mr. Samuel Moskowitz, 361 Roseville Avenue, Newark, New Jersey (Phone No. 201-HU-5-3295)
And: Mr. Charles H. Everline, Hearing Officer, CMB, NYK-21

By prior appointment I visited Mr. Moskowitz at his home to discuss information he reportedly had concerning the early history of Mr. L. Ron Hubbard. Mr. Moskowitz had informed Mr. Bud Loftus that he first heard Mr. Hubbard say at a meeting that the only way to make a million dollars was to form your own religion.

Mr. Moskowitz stated that the meeting referred to was held at the Slovak Circle Hall on Morris Avenue in Newark, New Jersey on November 7, 1948. That the meeting was held with Mr. Hubbard in attendance was verified by two reports. FANTASY TIMES 12-15-48 issue on Page 6 states that the Society held a meeting on November 7 with Mr. L. Ron Hubbard as guest speaker. The FANTASY ANNUAL 1948 issue on Page 54 contains a summary of the monthly meetings of the Eastern Science Fiction Society. This also stated that Mr. Hubbard was guest speaker at the November meeting. Mr. Alex Osheroff, Treasurer at the time, has advised Mr. Moskowitz that the minutes of the November 7, 1948 meeting are in existence. These minutes show that during the question and answer period, Mr. Hubbard spoke on his work “EXCALIBUR”. It was during these remarks that the statement about forming your own religion was made. Twenty-three people were in attendance at the meeting. These included Mr. Moskowitz, Mr. Osheroff, Mr. Alan Howard, Mr. Martin Greenberg, and Mr. Oswald Train. The current addresses for Mr. Howard and Mr. Greenberg were not known by Mr. Moskowitz. Mr. Train is a publisher whose address is 1129 West Wingohocking Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (phone no. DA 4-7738).

Following the meeting, several of the people in attendance, and Mr. Hubbard, went to the Hickory Grill and subsequently to Mr. Moskowitz’s home. While at the home, Mr. Train was hypnotized by Hubbard in an attempt to treat Mr. Train’s stuttering problem. Mr. Moskowitz had offered to pay Hubbard $100 if he could cure or even improve Mr. Train’s speech impediment. Mr. Hubbard was unsuccessful.

Mr. Hubbard did not attend any other meetings of the Society and Mr. Moskowitz was not in attendance at any other meetings where Mr. Hubbard may have spoken about forming your own religion.

We then discussed various other associates who might be familiar with Mr. Hubbard during the 1946 to 1955 time period. During these conversations, Mr. Moskowitz supplied the following names and addresses.

1. Mr. John W. Campbell
1457 Orchard Road
Mountainside, New Jersey
(Phone No. AD 3-3420)

Mr. Campbell was the publisher of “Amazing Science Fiction” and was the first person to hire Mr. Hubbard as a writer. He currently is employed by “Analog Science Fiction”. He may have information concerning Mr. Hubbard from 1938 to around 1952.

2. Mr. A.E. van Vogt
7089 Hawthorn
Los Angeles, California
(Phone No. 463-7377)

Mr. van Vogt is a writer who became involved in “Dianetics”. He set up the Los Angeles Dianetics Center around June or July 1950. He since has become disillusioned with Mr. Hubbard.

3. Mr. Arthur J. Cox — current address unknown. Mr. Cox is a friend of Mr. van Vogt and wrote a two-part article on van Vogt which appeared in the “Science Fiction Advertiser”. The second of the two articles appeared in the July 1952 issue. The editor of this booklet was Mr. Edward Ludwig. In the second article, Mr. Cox refers to various letters from Hubbard to van Vogt discussing “EXCALIBUR” and “Dianetics”. The article also mentions that Hubbard was present at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society on several occasions in 1948. The minutes of these meetings are reported in Shangri-la issues Nos. 5, 6 and 7. The one of primary interest is the April 15, 1948 meeting which is reported in Shangri-la no. 6 on Page 9. A copy of this page is attached for the record.

4. Forrest Ackerman — L. Ron Hubbard’s agent still living somewhere in California but his current address is unknown.

5. Mr. William Blackbeard — Mr. Blackbeard wrote an article entitled “Pip-squeak Prometheus Some Remarks on the Writings of L. Ron Hubbard”. This article originally appeared in 1948 in a local Journal and later was republished with some changes in the October 1952 issue of “Inside” starting on Page 23. Mr. Moskowitz has a copy of this article. It is an interesting analysis of Hubbard as a writer and also mentions the E meter.

Mr. Moskowitz also has in his possession a copy of the book entitled “Self Analysis in Scientology” copyright 1952 by L. Ron Hubbard; second printing 1953. I did not recall seeing this book during the early investigations of Scientology. In addition, there is an article in the November 1970 issue of “Amazing Science Fiction” entitled “Dianetics” — a personal report by Barry Molzberg.

Mr. Moskowitz stated that when Mr. Hubbard went into “Dianetics” and subsequently “Scientology,” he did not keep track of him because this did not deal with science fiction. He does have a file on “Dianetics” and one on “Scientology.” Most of the information in these files are clippings from magazines and newspapers. The majority of these are personal opinion articles either pro or con on “Dianetics” and “Scientology.” They add very little, if anything, to information already at hand.

Mr. Moskowitz stated he will continue to look through his files in an effort to uncover another meeting at which he thought Hubbard made the same remark about forming your own religion. Should he encounter the report on this, he will contact me. It appears Mr. Moskowitz’s prime value is as a historian who has available early articles concerning Mr. Hubbard’s movements and contacts.

Charles Everline

 
So in 1948-49, when Hubbard was writing Dianetics and, according to the Church of Scientology, trying and failing to get the medical and psychiatric establishments to take his mental health “cures” seriously, he was telling some people that what he really wanted to do, in order to get out of the drudgery of writing for the pulps, was to start a religion. Dianetics, published on May 9, 1950, however, presented itself as a science. It was later, after the more metaphysical past-lives stuff of Scientology of 1952, that Hubbard, in 1953, faced with government grumbling about health claims, wrote to Helen O’Brien about trying out “the religion angle.” But is that what he’d actually had in mind all the time, and was just waiting for the opportunity to propose it?

Ah, this is fun stuff.

The FDA and Scientology settled the court case about the E-meters in 1971. But we thank R.M. Seibert once again for having the foresight, last year, to ask the FDA for its files.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on January 19, 2016 at 07:00

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Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Dr_Orpheus

    “Mr. Moskowitz had offered to pay Hubbard $100 if he could cure or even improve Mr. Train’s speech impediment. Mr. Hubbard was unsuccessful.” Preposterous! Hubris never failed! Mr. Train obviously had MUs, undisclosed crimes, and/or connections to SPs preventing him from getting better.

    • BosonStark

      Hubbard’s talent wasn’t in curing things like stuttering, but in making his followers believe he could cure things like stuttering, or cure his own blindness with Dianutty. I like how it was mentioned he “hypnotized” them.

    • Would that be the Sam Moskowitz who edited a number of books of selected short stories??

      • Dr_Orpheus

        I don’t know. I’d never heard of him before today.

        • There was a chap, with that same name, who edited a number of early anthologies of sciene fiction short stories. These helped the genre break out of pulp magazines (which were giving way to radio) and break into the book market.

          I lot of the early promotion of dianetics seems to have been done, formally and informally, by people involved professionaly in the SF community.

  • Observer

    This is amazing, gratifying and kind of depressing all at once. It’s depressing because it’s a reminder that once upon a time the government actually did its reaseach, and that religious cloaking wasn’t always so broad and seemingly impenetrable.

    EDIT: Also, Pip-squeak Prometheus!! I’m going to be snickersnorting about that all day.

    • Gerard Plourde

      The fantasy and science fiction collection at Texas A&M has a copy of the article.

      • Juicer77

        Someone PLEASE get their hands on a copy and scan it so we can see it!!

    • Chee Chalker

      I also loved that title…..unfortunately you know how the Co$ will run with it…….’Scientific magagize declares LRH and Dianetics as great a discovery as fire!’

    • Hehe!! “Pip-squeak Prometheus” cracked me up, too! l would love to read that article except that, according to this reference, Inside didn’t start publishing until late 1953.
      http://zinewiki.com/Inside_and_Science_Fiction_Advertiser Maybe the initial local publication can be found. It would be an interesting read… [..]Prometheus (/prəˈmiːθiːəs/ prə-MEE-thee-əs; Greek: Προμηθεύς [promɛːtʰeús], meaning “forethought”)[1] is a Titan in Greek mythology,
      best known as the deity in Greek mythology who was the creator of
      mankind and its greatest benefactor, who gave mankind fire stolen from
      Mount Olympus

      • Observer

        And he ended up chained to a rock where every day an eagle would rip him open and eat his liver, IIRC. Ron ended up chained to his Bluebird by his own insanity and shot full of the psych drugs which terrified him so.

      • SciWatcher

        Ah, but by giving us this “technology,” Prometheus causes the fall of man. Where mankind once partied with the gods, we were now kicked to the curb and introduced to toil, pain in childbirth, and death. As an added gift, Zeus sent us Pandora and her jar filled with all those wonderful things like pestilence and disease which cause pain and suffering.

        It’s a very apt name for Hubbard.

  • cdubb

    Hubbard was working all his sci-fi contacts looking for suckers to pay his way. The feds later called it a cult. Now it schemes to rule Earth. Whatever happened to the racketeering charges that were going to be made against them?

  • In addition, there is an article in the November 1970 issue of “Amazing Science Fiction” entitled “Dianetics” — a personal report by Barry Molzberg.

    The FDA Agent made a minor mistake, the name is actually Barry Malzberg.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Asimov’s statement that he saw Hubbard at the Philadelphia Navy Yard in 1943 or 44 is intriguing. Was this after Hubbard depth-charged the iron deposit off Oregon and shelled Mexico? Was the Navy shipping him to on-shore duties around the country so that he would do as little damage to the war effort as possible?

    • ze moo

      By then Hubbtard had been relieved of the command of a little patrol craft and had sent away from his duties on a LST and sent to a ‘civil administration’ school the Navy was running at Princeton NJ.

      • It was the USS Algol that he’d had his butt kicked from in 1944, after the “petrol bomb incident”. BFM p.109.

    • I tried to follow that trail with another FOIA request on an obscure government agency that houses the old Navy Shipyards archives. The response a few months later made it seem like the archivists rather enjoyed the puzzle I gave them, and they searched high and low for anything and everything directly and indirectly to Hubbard, Dianetics, Scientology and his known sci fi associates. But there was absolutely nothing to be found.

      • Gerard Plourde

        I checked Jon Atack’s “A Piece of Blue Sky” (Proving once again how indispensable he and his work are). His extensive research has Hubbard on the West Coast for that period. Give that he didn’t know Hubbbard all that well, Asimov may have been mistaken as to who he actually saw.

        • Robert Eckert

          Or he may not have remembered the time frame very well.

        • Or the visit to the shipyards was so mundane no record was kept, and he was just given a standard tour many others were given.

          • Gerard Plourde

            True. It does seem that the Navy was always trying to find places to send him where he wouldn’t cause a mess. And he seems to have managed to make one wherever he went.

  • After my book came out, I met Isaac Azimov and he was trying to impress me (he was quite a lecher) and he apologized to me for making Hubbard famous. He made it seem as if he personally had launched LRH. I had done enough research on Scientology to know it was nonsense
    .

    • Bavarian Rage

      Oh please! (Rolls eyes) How annoying/amusing for you.

      • Bavarian Rage

        ETA: What a bewildering way to garner your attention. If I had anything to do with unleashing this pustule on the world, you can be sure it’s a secret shame I’d carry to the grave. Some people will say anything to be part of the action.

        • Tracy Schmitz

          it would be like a nazi guard trying to impress marlene dietrich (who thank goodness denounced all that is germany and nazi at the time to support american and the allies) into a night of sex by saying “you know that camp in poland? i was the main guard there!”…in fact, i helped build it and run it!”

          • Mockingbird

            That’s so fucked up. I wouldn’t want to fuck anyone who did or bragged about such a thing, no matter how attractive.

            • ithilien

              Doesnt even make sense, if he knew she was harassed by hubb. Why would he think associating himself would be attractive to her ?

            • Mockingbird

              He might have misread her or found his own charms irresistible.

    • Kim O’Brien

      oh look ..another man , totally full of himself 😉

      • Tracy Schmitz

        i know right… nutjob meet nut…..

      • StudentOfLife

        I’m discussing this subject now with my girlfriend so have to jump in here as she’s laughing wondering if I’m going to go on a rant in here, lol. as she is amazed at my college age son’s graciousness towards the fairer sex. I hope I taught him well. I wonder if women, as they evolve into primary wage earners and owners/CEOs of companies, will ever suffer the observed ego weaknesses (just men being men?) that have plagued men throughout history. Unfortunately, patriarchy, still rampant in our society, keeps men enjoying the hubris of ego that expresses itself in the subtle (and for many, not so subtle) forms of exploitation through objectification of women and a sense that sexual conquest of women is an “entitlement.”.

        Even Bill Wilson, who I admire greatly for his creation of AA, and was named one of Time’s most influential people of 20th century…there is a new documentary about the step named after his other addition he never found a solution for: the 13th step, meaning preying on women in addiction who just recently stopped using alcohol and often are vulnerable to slick men (usually older) who know these women are often dying/vying for attention of any type. It wasn’t just Bill Clinton that followed in Bill Wilson’s lecherous footsteps, MLK and even the infuential author/psychiatrist M. Scott Peck were no less prone to a sense of “entitlement.” Men also compartmentalize their actions better apparently than most women do which may account for lack of shame over having affairs. “The 13 Step” movie by Monica Richardson is winning many awards and drawing attention to the problem of women being preyed on by predators even in the rooms of AA. I’m involved in a movement to stop sexual harassment in 12 step programs given the recent murders of women by AA members are drawing a lot of negative attention including a recent 48 hours shown this month called “The Sober Truth.” I’m arranging a showing of “The 13th Step” movie here in Ojai for some movers and shakers in this small but very interesting California town.

    • Gerard Plourde

      Your recollection of Asimov’s reputation caused me to chuckle. I remember his behavior was common knowledge when I attended science fiction conventions in the ’80’s.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I met him at an SF Con in 1970 and the reputation existed then. He talked about it in “I. Asimov,” saying that he was married doing those things but he seemed neither proud of it nor with great regret over it. And there we have it– sex lives of the almost rich and somewhat famous.

        • Hell, we’ve probably all ready met. I did all the Toronto area conventions after Toronto Star Trek 76. Don’t think I missed a single one till the nineties when kids took over.

    • Bunker Buggy Betsy

      Asimov’s leechery was as renowned. My writer friend used to hang out with him at club meetings. He said Isaac was the crazy uncle you warned all the young girls about, but he was amusing, and family, so you had to have him over. He invented dirty limericks for all the women at the meetings.

      I met Isaac Asimov at a Star Trek Convention around 1979 at the Statler Hilton hotel in NYC. I was 20 and was the co-creator of a fanzine for The Prisoner TV series. The zine was called “The Green Dome”. He made some obtuse crack about domes. It was strange. I was terrified of him; I was fresh out of a Jesus cult, and incredibly naïve. He was the first famous person I’d ever met. He was kind and funny though, and gave us an exclusive interview for our silly little zine.

      Cheers, Paulette! Thank you for everything!

      • Captain MustSavage

        Star Trek, Asimov and The Prisoner, WOW! Much approval. Tell me, did Number 6 really get away?

        • Bunker Buggy Betsy

          That would be telling.

          “Questions are a burden to others. Answers a prison for one’s self.”

          The Prisoner themes, so appropriate for Scientology!

        • Nobody knows… Patrick McGoohan had written himself into a corner, and could not come to any definite conclusion without messing up the ambiguity that made the whole thing work. unfortunately, the end of the series was rather self-indugent actors’ stuff, but at least it didn’t spoil the whole thing by conceding to a conventional resolution.

          • ze moo

            The episode is on youtube.

            • daytoncapri

              Once Born is right about the ending. Not every episode of this great series was a high art. For me, the most tolerable explanation is that the whole thing was John Drake’s fever dream. Yes, he was John Drake, despite McGoohan’s denial, as spotted by a (very strident) sleuth in this thread. http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/4879/was-number-6-john-drake

    • Phil McKraken

      I am saddened. Not that Asimov was lecherous, but that he wanted to claim credit for Hubbard. I would be much happier if Asimov claimed zero recollection of ever having known Hubbard, even if it was a lie. Instead he lies in the other direction. Yuck.

      • Gerard Plourde

        My guess would be that he was playing an angle to entice Ms. Cooper. Claiming he didn’t know or didn’t like Hubbard wouldn’t have suited his purpose at the time.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          A friend wrote him about 1970, asking Asimov about Scientology. Asimov responded with a very short note which was sarcastic and ambiguous. I hate to quote the note because I might misquote and also because the context is complicated.

          Some guys will say anything to have sex with an attractive woman.

          • Peter

            Or even an UNattractive one. LOL

        • Some people are unable to switch off “story-teller mode”. I take Harlan Ellison’s account of the 1948 Eastern Science Fiction Association, when he was 15, with a grain of salt.

        • Phil McKraken

          At the risk of being indelicate, I can’t say that I would have been above some prevarication for the chance of getting to know Ms. Cooper a little better.

      • Marcabian Candidate

        I have a copy of “Caves of Steel” with a forward by Asimov in which he expresses (rather earnestly if I recall correctly) that Dianetics and/or Scientology is no good. He specifically talks about John Campbell and Campbell’s devotion to the subject.

    • ScieNAHolgist

      We all know those types Miss Lovely 😀

    • Isaac Asimov was never short of words or ego.

    • Edward Whalley

      Sounds like Ike. He was always the self-promoter. For a while, he was Mr. Science Fiction, to most non-fen, and quite a few fans, as well. You live and you learn.

      • Peter

        It’s the essential base of all politics.

        • Edward Whalley

          Oh, I meant Ike Asimov….

    • Mockingbird

      Jeez , that’s disappointing to discover about the revered science fiction author. I guess talent doesn’t equate to character. The Cosby rule.

    • Len Zinberg

      Thanks, Paulette. I missed that somehow. Good catch, MB.

    • Yes, that’s our Isaac.

      Never met the man myself, but I’ve been a member of Science Fiction Fandom since the Seventies, and there were tons of stories about Isaac Asimov. Basically he got treated as the crazy uncle all families have, we knew not to leave females of any description alone with him.

      He was generally considered harmless. Lecherous, but harmless. At least I never heard about anything other than learing and drooling.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Hi, Wayne. Great to hear from you. You’re note put a smile on my face. The first convention I ever went to was Torcon 2 (I think it was called) at the King Edward, definitely in 1970. I saw Frank Kelly Freas’ art and it changed my life. I had never seen anything so beautiful. I shook Asimov’s hand and he called me by name. I haven’t washed the hand since.

        I blew the cult to go to the Worldcon in Toronto in 1973. I was on some stupid course and told the instructor that I intended to go to the con, if I was finished the course or not. She instructed me to go to ethics where I met Earl Smith, who if I ever mentioning again I will refer to as the “waste of air”. Jokes on him. I blew. He is still there.

        I continued attending the cons until either a Torque or a very early Ad Astra in the late summer of probably 1979. It was too clubby and it was a club that I was not a member of, didn’t know how to join and didn’t really want to join for that matter, Groucho jokes aside.

        And since then I have been on the periphery. The last world con in Toronto killed it though, in 2003. It had its merits but not the ones I was looking for. I doubt that I will be going back. In a way the bigs cons aren’t needed as much. We have DVDs, internet communications, Amazon, Ebay and bookstores. We won. We conquered the world. The whole world is a big SF con now.

        I read a book by John Clute that described many of the pros. It said that Asimov would be our beloved, wise uncle except that Heinlein already fills that niche. He is, instead, our little brother with Aspergers who made good just the same. I paraphrase and from a very imperfect memory.

        I would bet that we have met. Do you know Taral Wayne. Hope. Larry Hancock. Gregg Hagglund? They would be a few of my links to Toronto fandom.

        • Oh dear. My memory isn’t what it used to be. I forget names. Boy do I forget names. Can’t say I remember any names from that far back.

          Missed Torcon 2 – bought a magazine which mentioned it a week later, and was kicking myself. Worked staff for Torcon 3.

          Helped start the FilKONtario series of Filk cons. Worked Ad Astra and Toronto Trek more than once, as well as doing panels.

          And now I write the stuff!

        • I’m terrible with names, so I checked with my wife. She says Taral Wayne was a member of the Toronto Amateur Press Association at the same time as we were. That was after Mike Wallis passed control to Howard Scrimgeour (Mike moved to California).

          Meet Kelly Freas, real neat guy. Used to love talking to Hal Clement, another neat guy. Elizabeth Pearse (who ran Star Trek 76 and later a lot of convention art shows) died a while back. Her family didn’t understand her fannish hobby, but since fans would be at her funeral they filled the bathtub with ice, pop, and bheer.

          Talk to Janet Morris regularly, she helped me learn how to write a short story. Shirley Meier I see when I get south if I can, I love her like a sister.

          I may be down for FilKONtario this year, depends on how a couple of things play out. If I am coming down I’ll let you know ahead.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I still talk to Taral regularly. I haven’t seen Mike Wallis, knowingly, in decades. We used to be friends though. I have no idea what he is doing today. The last I heard his name was probably 25 years ago. I hope he is doing well in California. I met Kelly Freas at a Worldcon but only on the occasion of buying art from him. I have never met Hal Clement though I read Mission of Gravity when I was in high school. I knew Elizabeth Pearse enough to have been to her home once. I am not sure if I know Janet Morris. I knew a very nice woman named Janet who was keeping house with a writer named Bob Wilson. She broke up with him and went off to Vancouver or so I was told. That was a long time ago, perhaps 20 years ago. If you come down I am good for a free Chinese meal at the Kowloon.

            • Not the same Janet, she’s been married to Chris since about 1970.

              I’m connected to Mike Wallis on Facebook. He is still in California.

              Do you know Shirley Meier?

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I probably don’t know Shirley Meier. Then again, I have crossed paths with most of the fans who are about my age. I didn’t get deeply into the fan scene. There was a period when I was part of a “fan” professionals group called, “Hydra”. There were about sixty of us. Someone nominated me for membership because I had done some SF illustrations. I would say that about ten percent of the membership were full blown pros. The rest had had a story published here or there, of perhaps a book published deep in the past. Eventually Rob Sawyer and Allan Weiss had a falling out resulting in a lawsuit and that killed that organization. I still attend parties that are vaguely fan related once or twice a year.

            • Chat with Rob Sawyer on Facebook. I remember Hydra. Never was a member, but I think Shirley might have been, along with Tanya Huff.

    • Sneering Cyril

      This is slightly off-topic but I would like to comend your bravery, your investigative reporting and your resilience. I read Tony’s book about you and you are an inspiration.

      I’m sorry I can’t contact you under my real name (I am not as brave as you are). I was shocked and appalled at the way they treated you. I’m so happy your story is out there, it’s a fantastic read.

      Jennifer Lawrence is my pick to play you in the (hopefully inevitable) film – what do you think?

      • Ha – if we could get a movie going, I’d be happy with anyone but, say, Lady Gaga playing me.

        • daisy

          I see Cate Blanchette.

          • StudentOfLife

            Reese Witherspoon might be good. Think she moved out of Ojai but I used to see her in sweats and no makeup and she never lost her southern manner (she’s a Tennessee girl still at heart). Since I met Paulette, I could easily see Reese play her young and older alike as Paulette still has that youthful gleam in her eyes.

          • Ella Raitch

            A tad tall – but who knows? She can transform herself into any character

    • Dave Reams

      L. Ron Hubbard had quite a reputation as a womanizer according to those who knew him to have insinuated himself into every wife and girlfriend of those at Jack Parson’s house in Pasadena and to his illicit lover Barbara Knowden.

      At the risk of seeming uncouth and prurient (Moi ???) … I am surprised not to have heard ANY rumours about Hubbard re-stimulating any of his followers – considering that they worshiped the man like a god, following any command no matter how ridiculous. Nor a hint of possible lust towards those CMO pre teens in their halter tops, hot pants, and fuck-me pumps who bathed and massaged and dressed the Commode d’or.

      Sexual attraction to men and boys has never occurred to me but I can imagine that the young CMO David Miscavige in his tight hot pants must have been an alluring siren while swabbing Hubbard’s poop deck. “David, is it low toned to eat snails? …”

  • EnthralledObserver

    Times haven’t changed… these days a certain religion can tell you they are literally all about ‘taking over the world’ and no action by the authorities is taken. Hubbard says he’s going to ‘start a religion for profit’ … and authorities do… nothing!

    • ze moo

      At the moment, the Feds have bigger fish to fry than $cientology. Some day a task force of Immigration, FBI and FDA may get together and bludgeon the clampire into dust, but until they get that task force running, the best anyone can do is educate the public.

      Shutting off the flow of new is killing the clampire.

      How is Hubbtard different from Creflo Dollar or any other mega church preacher?

      • EnthralledObserver

        Whilst I agree that it could easily apply to $cientology also, I actually meant Islam. Let’s hope immigration is handled completely, then perhaps both might die.

  • Isaac Asimov might not have met Hubbard very often, but he was getting the gossip:

    Strange Angel, The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons, p.271, Chapter 11, Rock Bottom:

    Parsons’ pursuit of Hubbard had been closely followed by Hubbard’s fellow science fiction writers. For L. Sprague de Camp, a Caltech graduate in aeronautical engineering and now one of the most popular science fiction and fantasy writers of the day, the events confirmed his already low opinion of Hubbard. In a letter to Isaac Asimov, he wrote:

    The more complete story of Hubbard is that he is now in Fla. living on his yacht with a man-eating tigress named Betty-alias-Sarah, another of the same kind … He will probably soon thereafter arrive in these parts with Betty-Sarah, broke, working the poor-wounded-veteran racket for all its worth, and looking for another easy mark. Don’t say you haven’t been warned. Bob [Robert Heinlein] thinks Ron went to pieces morally as a result of the war. I think that’s fertilizer, that he always was that way, but when he wanted to conciliate or get something from somebody he could put on a good charm act. What the war did was to wear him down to where he no longer bothers with the act.

    (L. Sprague de Camp, letter to Isaac Asimov, 27 August 1946.)

    I suspect that Asimov was being careful about what he knew vs. what he’d heard.

    • Bunker Buggy Betsy

      What a treasure!

      And Robert Heinlein puts in an appearance by way of reference.

      Really is a circus!

      • If you want a circus in a time-capsule, Anthony Boucher wrote a murder-mystery Rocket to the Morgue (published 1942), set just before December 7, 1941. It’s (imo) a so-so mystery, but all the characters are based on members of LASFS and the Mañana Literary Society. All the gang is there, including Heinlein, Hubbard and Parsons.

        • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

          In James Blish’s The Warriors of Day, he has a character named Elron who is red-headed and is depicted as the leader of a murderous cult. I don’t think he was worried about retaliation as it was probably something of an inside joke back then that would’ve been unnoticed by the majority of his readers. The story is kinda strange itself, if you mixed a sword and sorcery saga with a philosophical treatise on the true powers of thought and telepathy, and the protagonist isn’t really there, in one sense of the word, not to give the whole plot away right now.

    • TonyOrtega
      • L. Sprague de Camp wasn’t shy in his opinion of Hubbard. I’ve seen hints that Hubbard/Scientology applied their usual tactics to keep him quiet. I wonder how many people who really knew Hubbard back in day received strong suggestions not to discuss it?

      • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

        I talked to deCamp at the 1983 World Con about the love life of the subject of a recent biography he had written. Heck of a nice guy.

        • deCamp was in there right at the beginning , publishing articles and stories in “Astounding Science Fiction” when the promotion of dianetics there was approaching its height.

          Notably, he published sceptical articles about fringe ideas and pseudo-science in the same (September 1950) issue in which dianetics was being vigerously promoted.

          His conclusions did not mention dianetics, but applied to it perfectly. Hubbard had captivated Astoundings’ editor, John W Campbell, to such an extent that he published two condemnations of pseudo-science (both by deCamp) in between issues containing articles about dianetics (a pseudo-science if ever there was one) by Hubbard.

          Read it here:
          https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/september-1950-the-irony-issue-dianetics-and-scientology-in-astounding-science-fiction-part-10/

    • I wonder why Asimov did not refer the agents to Heinlein, who had taken Hubbard in for a crucial period, having fallen for the ‘wounded war hero’ story as de Camp predicted. He would have been an interesting character witness, especially since he had fallen out with Hubbard big time.

      If only Heinlein had know the extent of Hubbards’ lies concerning his military career, Heinlein would have seen him in a new light and would likely have been outraged.

      • I’ve heard that Heinlein had considerable to say about Hubbard in later years, but it was when he a guest at the Dorsai Irregulars’ Thing relaxacon, and I haven’t been able to get anyone to spill the beans yet.

        • Bearing in mind the characters after whom they style themselves, I imagine these people are loyal to a fault. If it was spoken in confidence it stays confidential.

          It’s ironic that Heinlein would likely now want his knowlege of Hubbards’ behaviour published abroad.

          • If Heinlein has a cult, these are the guardians [office] of his reputation.

        • Gene Trujillo

          I wish Heinlein had made his later views more known. One of the reasons I gave Hubbard the benefit of the doubt was because Heinlein was my hero and I knew they were friends.

      • I believe there was several people Asimov could have mentioned, but didn’t. It seems to me he wisely recommended folks who had first hand knowledge of how Hubbard’s organizations and therapy actually worked, rather than people who knew him personally as a writer.

        • I also don’t think he wanted to explain fandom to outsiders, especially FDA inspectors.

        • Yes – I suppose Asimov was a very rational individual who was maybe even a tad literal-minded. The characters in his fiction always struck me as emotionally trapped in adolescence, as he was.

          He would have approached the question in an academic way, concentating on the facts about the matter at hand, and maybe not have realised that someone whose experience would speak to Hubbards’ questionable character might also provide a useful perspective.

      • ze moo

        I can only speculate, but there seems to have been a sexual thing with Heinlein and his wife, Virginia. Lroon could easily have let Heinlein know that any negative comments from him would cause the pustulated one to attack.

        • That’s possible, but I rather get the impression that Heinlein simply moved on and lived his life. His only reference to Hubbard and Scientology in his fiction was in his novel “Friday” and that rather suggested he was still buying Hubbards’ ‘war hero’ story in 1982 (at least, he was respectful of the military discipline and care for comrades shown by an imagined future CofS. – it seems he was dead wrong in that prediction on both counts).
          https://scicrit.wordpress.com/?s=novis

        • Gene Trujillo

          I believe that Heinlein letters indicate that Heinlein let Hubbard bang his wife, and Hubbard and Heinlein got it on as well.

    • ithilien

      Yes this is a fascinating book. Read it last year. The history of Hubbard as a hypnotist was mentioned by this
      author and his description of post war California and its various cults and alternative spirituality very insightful

    • Robert Sheaffer

      L. Sprague de Camp was a fellow of CSICOP (now CSI), the skeptics’ organization, in its early days. I met him at some CSICOP gatherings. He wrote some articles for their publication, The Skeptical Inquirer.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    San Luis Obispo is the city Scientology would like to forget. In 1948 L.Ron was arrested there for passing bad cheques, and in 1986 Hubbard would die in Creston, a town of only 94 citizens in San Luis Obispo county.

    I visited SLO only a few days ago and saw the Hearst Castle, visited a winery, golfed 9 holes and then drove over to the estate where L.Ron, while living in a trailer, made the momentous decision to drop his body and spread Scientology throughout the Guh-laxy. Better there than here, I say. I thought about dropping in on the town council and telling them that they had a tourist attraction that would make Morrison’s grave seem unworthy. If only people could visit the place where Hubbard died, tourism would skyrocket, florists would flourish as people bought arrangements to adorn the estate, photographers would find a meaningful subject, and millions of Scientologists would have their own Graceland which they could call Without Graceland.

    Well, I went and took some shots. It is on a lonely road in the middle of nowhere. If you ask around Creston someone is bound to tell you just where it is.

    Shot One— The Gate, sort of like one you would expect to see at a farm for thoroughbred horses.

    Shot Two– The home, sort of like the one Hubbard hoped to live in but he kicked the bucket before it was finished and had to live his last two years in a trailer. I couldn’t find the trailer or I would have take a shot of it.

    Shot Three— The fates were with us that day. We drove away and went to a restaurant in the next town. I ordered the Ortega. OT Phenomenon or coincidence .You decide.

    Shot Four— The top of the Tower, sort of like one you would expect to see in a movie about a POW camp, but done on a higher budget. Not the friendliest place on Earth.

    And there you have it.

    • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

      Ortega burgers are pretty common in California. I could probably find 3 or more places to order one from my undisclosed location in southeastern Tulare county.

      • Andrew Robertson

        Providing that the FDA inspectors haven’t written critical reports about Ortega burgers I see no reason not to enjoy them! I’m sure they are full of meat and spice and satisfy one, until hunger for more returns the following morning at 0700 ET.

        Andrew

        • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

          Another cuisine innovation here is salting fries with seasoned salt instead of the ol’ NaCl. Talk about yum!

      • Missionary Kid

        There’s also Ortega omelettes, all named that way because of the Ortega chilies.

        • Always Amazed

          Aka Anaheim Chiles, California’s version of Hatch Chiles. Hatch are way better, IMO.

    • Observer

      Ah, my place of origin. You picked a good time of year–it’s only green from January to May.

      • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

        Pretty much the same here by the foothills of the Southern Sierra Nevadas. And the drought is starting to break, or at least bend a little finally. Last year it might’ve been dry as a bone.

        You’ll like this, a landscape by the 19th Century painter Albert Bierstad called Among the Sierra Nevada. He was a bit of a fraud like LRH, taking features of different mountain ranges and blending them together to achieve a great effect, and using light as a prop kinda like Thomas Kinkade.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Albert_Bierstadt_-_Among_the_Sierra_Nevada,_California_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

        • Observer

          Gorgeous!

          • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

            And completely unreal. He put in features found in the Alps along with what a Sierra Nevada meadow might look like. Although he has been dead for over a century, there is still a reluctance on the Internet, at least, to discuss his artistic dishonesty.

            • Lionel Drinkwater

              And yet the cads at Sotheby’s, Christie’s, and other auction houses are only to happy to sell Bierstadt’s originals for ridiculous prices:

              Indians Spear Fishing, oil on canvas, 1862. Sold for $7,321,000 on 05/21/2008
              Yosemite Valley, oil on canvas, 1836. $7,176,000 on 2/03/2003

              No thanks. For my money I’ll stick to Battlefield Earth pieces.

              http://battlefieldearth.com/wp-content/gallery/art-gallery-3/insurrection.jpg

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Josh Kirby is good, too. I don’t think he was inspired when he did the BattleField Earth one, though. I am joking but I also mean it. I have a book on his work. He is one of the best.

            • Peter

              In this day of shooping, he’d be a famous leader. What he created is gorgeous, as Obs said. I can’t see any “dishonesty” here.

            • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

              Sure, if he were honest about it, which wasn’t true at the time:

              A critic in Watson’s Weekly Journal in 1866 wrote about a painting Bierstadt made of a high peak in Colorado:

              The whole science of geology cries out against him. Away above the clouds, near the top of the picture, the observer will observe two pyramidal shapes. By further consultation with the index sheet, the observer will ascertain that these two things are the two “spurs” of Mount Rosalie. Now, let him work out a problem in arithmetic: The hills over which he looks, as we are told, are three thousand feet high; right over the hills tower huge masses of clouds which certainly carry the eye up to ten or twelve thousand feet higher; above these… the two “spurs”; what is the height of Mount Rosalie? Answer: approximately ten thousand miles or so. Impossible.

              http://counterlightsrantsandblather1.blogspot.com/2013/10/albert-bierstadt-goes-west.html

            • Peter

              Bobby: Rarely do art and science go together..nor would I like it if they did. The painting stands on its own. I see no reason why the “science” of geology should have any bearing on the art whatsoever. That would be like complaining that many of the shoops here in The Bunker didn’t always look like what they were representing. A painting is an artist’s view or thought or muse on a subject, not necessarily a “correct” drawing/painting of a scene or object

            • Robert Eckert

              This was before photography had come into its own. He was selling his paintings as realistic portrayals of the western landscapes to people who didn’t know better. If he was open about the fact that these were fantasies, that would be very different.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Hi, Robert. I send this to you but it on the subject of the painting and could go to anyone who has commented on the Bierstadt.

              I actually have two university degrees on this sort of thing. While that doesn’t mean much in itself, it is two more than L.Ron had, and he was a doctor and an engineer.

              When painting anything, the subject matter is a compromise between conventions in depicting reality and the reality that may be in front of the painter. Back then, a lot of painters were trained in Europe and then came here to draw North American landscapes. European mountains, it seems, look different from North American mountains and many painted North American scenes with European mountains in them.

              Now, I have never formally studied American painting and until now I have never heard of Bierstadt. The painting shown of his, looks pretty good and some people are willing to pay huge amounts for them. That’s OK. They are not judging him on accuracy in the way he painted his mountains. They are judging him on other things, and that’s OK too.

              As for Trish Romance and all those kitsch artists– when I was in art school the profs would poopoo Rockwell and Parish whom I loved. Today, there work is in major museums. Even comic artists are “cool” now. The Trish Romances might have the last laugh on the critics.

            • Robert Eckert

              OK. I know that Karen de la Carriere is very fond of Thomas Kincaid’s work, which gets a lot of flak for being kitschy, and so was a “frenemy” of mine on a long-gone religious debate board. There is no accounting for taste I guess. But I had the impression that in Bierstadt’s day people were wanting accurate depictions of places they couldn’t go visit and would be disappointed to learn that his pictures did not look much like the actual vistas, much as we would be disappointed if we learned that a National Geographic photo-spread was staged and not really what that country is like.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I didn’t know that about Bierstadt’s work (partly because until now I had never heard of him). There was a group of artists in the early 1800s called, “The Romantics”. They did many landscapes, often with very small people in them to further emphasize the majesty of nature. The world was still a mystery then. There were no cameras to speak of. It was hard to get away to the four corners of the world. Artists would do depictions deliberately emphasizing nature’s grandeur. Maybe Bierstadt was in that tradition or maybe he took a step further, or maybe he took it a step too far. Time will tell but I doubt that either of us will be around to hear time’s judgement of him.

              An aside. I love comic books and I have since I was in kindergarten. When I was in university there was probably only one book on comic book history and it was called, “All in Color for a Dime”. Now you could fill a library with all the studies of it.

              And… I wish my grandfather had bought an El Greco when they were cheap.

              And… I was in Frazetta’s hotel room in 1971. He was selling his paintings for $200 a toss. There I was asleep at the switch. Had I invested my summer’s earnings I would be worth at least a couple million more today.

              And… I once bought an Amazing Fantasy #15 for $3.50. I sold it for $7.50 a few years later. One has now sold for over a million dollars and they regularly go in the tens of thousands. The Smithsonian owns the original art.

            • Robert Eckert

              Well, I’m no expert on 19th century art either, and maybe my second-hand info on what was going on is all wet.
              When I was a young sprout I had a complete run of Fantastic Fours from #9 through #112 with the origin stories of Dr. Doom and the Silver Surfer etc. plus a whole slew of Spidermans and X-Men etc. (I was always a Marvel kid, not DC) All gone long ago, of course.

            • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

              Well, he painted what people wanted to see, that’s for sure, but by the standards of the time he took a bit of artistic license, and I’m sure it helped his paintings to be thought that they were depicting the grandeur of God’s creation. He could always claim artistic inspiration, as you correctly point out, if he had been confronted by someone like the critic in question. Back in the 19th Century, a white male European would’ve been assumed to be a Christian gentleman, and all that implies about being truthful and a man of honor , etc, so he’d have the benefit of the doubt. The photography of such places was not unknown back then, but still was rare, cumbersome, and costly to accomplish when it was done.

              Hey, you just gave me an idea for a Henry James type novel about this dilemma. This might be the latest best-seller based on geology since Angle of Repose. Thanks!

            • Peter

              My pleasure…I guess. And if “inflicting” such beauty on the public is his worst “crime”, I’d love to have something like that on my wall. 🙂 They certainly depict grandeur. He obviously delivered something unique. And let me know when your book comes out!

    • salin

      Nice collection of photos. In the first shot there is second one there is something in front of /outside the fence. Can’t make it out – maybe a trailer for a horse? I just envision that a little be bigger – an voila an imagined image of Hubbard’s hidey-hole.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I hadn’t noticed it until now. I don’t know what it is. I, too, can imagine it as being the end of an escape route or a gun installation, but it is more likely a wheel barrow or a mound of cut grass.

      • Observer

        It’s some kind of electrical box or something. The whole place has things like that scattered around. it’s kind of weird.

        • salin

          That’s right you were out there this summer and snapped some great photos as well.

          Curious things scattered around. How LRon. Like unintentional mystery sandwiches. He wouldn’t want folks (outsiders or insiders) to be curious about such things. Yet – curious we are.

    • OTD:OutTheDoor

      Odd that the fences here are less imposing/enclosing than the fences at CST. Look what is needed to keep animals in versus what is needed to keep humans penned in up there at Twin Peaks.

      • Dr_Orpheus

        East Germany used to describe the Berlin Wall as an anti-fascist protective rampart, so Scientology should describe the CST fences as an anti-SP protective rampart.

    • grundoon

      CST nipple shields on the front gate

      • Draco

        Noticed them too 🙂

    • Observer

      The Bluebird motorhome was parked by the stables at the far right of this pic. It’s long gone.

      • skiesareblue

        Sad to think how much of California’s precious water supply is being squandered on that lawn..

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      What a brilliant post. Thank you 🙂 Did you have fun? I remember Obs’ triumphant visit to the Ranch with Miss Lovely.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the note. I have been there many times. I have a son who lives down there. Son #2 was coming back from a trip to Australia on the way to his home in Vancouver and we all met. We did a few things but mostly I had a chance to relax. I love being at home but there are always pressing matters here. In SLO I was able to sleep until I didn’t feel like sleeping anymore and do as I wished during the day. Of course it was nice seeing my sons.

    • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

      Beautiful place to live.
      Too bad there was not a sane person there to enjoy it.

      Who is there now, or is it just another dead monument to
      an almost forgotten nut case ?

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I understand that it is used as a retreat but I must also confess that I am not the expert on that and rumours have a way of getting out of hand. I guarantee to you that people were there when I took those photos. I saw no indication that Hubbard had ever lived there– nothing at the gate or on the property that was visible from the road. It appears to be the home of a very wealthy person and that is it.

        • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

          Thank you for your response.
          It seems ironic, but deserved that LRH never got to live in the house.
          He was always on so many drugs, that he did not know which end was up.

          In my ESMB days I confirmed from 5 good sources that he had his own
          drug chest with him always over the years.
          He pretended that it was the difficult research that was taking a toll,
          but that was the cover story for the drugs.
          An early fifties person with him said that they used to combine Heroin and Cocaine.
          Another told me Hubbard was on Cocaine while doing OT-3 in the Canary Islands.

          Many of my posts are non sequitur I realize. but I just shoot-from-the-hip
          when I think of something.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Well, I have never heard the specifics. My goodness. I don’t doubt your account.

    • beauty for ashes

      Funny you should mention San Louis Obispo, Its where my Mom spent her first years of marriage. She lived at the Madonna Inn, which I believe is still there. She was not getting pregnant so she went to the Mission and did a Novena, and she says eight kids later she said another Novena saying ENOUGH!

      I’m going to get choked up about this, but today my sister is driving to San Louis Obispo, to get official copies of Alicia’s birth certificate in the place she was born. My oldest sibling who recently passed mysteriously in Mexico. Those copies will have to have official Spanish translations. And then finally when presented in person in Mexico to the proper government offices will we finally be allowed all the documents surrounding her death. We will also be able to claim her body, and have a proper memorial. Alicia is the only one of us born in California. I’m having one of those super crazy synchronicity moments!!!!!!!

      *************** If you can, all who read this just send some positive energy to my sister retrieving the birth certificate, that all goes perfectly with everything and the documents are perfect, so we can continue hoop jumping for Mexico.****************

      Also Obs, my sister Alicia was a digital paint artist, or a render wrangler. You always reminded me of her in a lot of ways. She worked on the first Shrek, and movies like the Matrix, and the Lord of the Rings. She also had a dry wit, and while not a laugh whore like me, had a very discerning sense of humour that made you feel incredibly rewarded when she did laugh at something. 🙂

      Whew! I am gonna go take some psych meds, this might be too much.

      • daisy

        Sending positive energy and prayers to you and your family. You always crave the laughs from the one who has a discerning sense of humor themselves. I much prefer getting laughs from you guys. I am unique in my RL circle of friends. I am only one of many here. Take meds as you need them. Short term usage is perfectly safe. Take care ( hugs )

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I got choked up reading your note, myself. I hope all goes well for you and all of yours. I hope the mystery diminishes soon about Alicia’s passing.

        The Madonna Inn is still there. i have eaten there a couple of times. I believe that a Mr. Madonna is still there too, but I don’t know his relationship to the man whose name seems to be all over the place in SLO.

        Good luck.

      • OOkpik

        ((<3 <3 <3))

  • Chee Chalker

    Mankind’s greatest friend had no friends??

    • Phil McKraken

      He didn’t want to play favorites.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    “We have something pretty nice and never posted online for the anniversary itself.”

    Definitions can be funny things. “Pretty nice” means one thing to us, and something entirely different to David Miscavige 🙂

    • Xenu is my Homeboy

      I wonder if it is related to Asimov van Vogt saying that he thought Hubbard may have had been married “four” times. Now that would be a turn up for the books.

      • TonyOrtega

        It was van Vogt who said that, not Asimov.

        I wonder who the New Orleans woman might have been.

        • Xenu is my Homeboy

          Thanks for the correction, brain failure on my part.

        • NOLA in a past life?

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Agggghh!!!!! *faints*

            • Have some smelling salts! ♥

            • Mockingbird

              Normally I give congratulations on a wedding, but with Hubbard should it be a sympathy card !?

          • Mockingbird

            That’s cruel and delusional punishment !

        • One Human

          Is it possible there is another wife he “never had”?
          Hmmmm….

          • As well as a few more red-haired descendants.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          This is a task for NOLA Girl Steph! … Our eyes and ears in NOLA.

  • DexterSka

    Ah these stories. A reminder of the wasted resources that went to investigating the Church of Scientology to no avail. The whole time the Church continued to operate and Hubbard remained a fugitive. It’s all a mocking reminder of the shortcomings of our government and our Constitution that our rights can be exploited by an organization that aims to take them away. At least it’s almost over and their obsessive control is failing them.

  • MaxSpaceman

    What did L Ron Hubbard do for a living after his stint in World War II ?

    He worked “the poor-wounded-veteran racket.”

    Lafayette, scum of the earth.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I just wanted to repost this cuz i posted it late last night . It makes me giggle and appreciate irony- from Raw Story ~

    In November of 2015, The Smoking Gun came to the same conclusion about the dearth of donations from Trump, writing: “Trump, who frequently reminds the public that he is worth TEN BILLION DOLLARS, is president of the Donald J. Trump Charitable Foundation, which the developer founded nearly 30 years ago.”

    But according to both websites, the only 9/11 contribution from Trump’s billions was a paltry $1000 given to a sketchy Scientology program that administered treatment to firemen who inhaled toxins while working on the smoldering World Trade Center.

    That program was part of the New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Fund, co-founded by actor Tom Cruise, and relied upon a “Purification Rundown” invented by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.

    • salin

      What a guy. I bet, dollars to donuts, that around that time he marketed some products/projects around the theme of patriotism/911 and made far more $$ off of the tragedy than he gave to the worthless ‘sauna sweat-a-thon’ program.

    • Mockingbird

      Sorry for any Trump supporters out there but a lot of psychologists and academics have looked at Trump’s behavior closely and consider him a bona fide narcissist. As in severely disordered and likely a malignant narcissist with no compassion, empathy or humility at all, or functionality so little as to be the same as zero in its influence upon his behavior.

      Now I barely have a high school level education, but have examined narcissists, sociopaths and psychology more than a little to understand Hubbard and Scientology and sadly must say many negative traits Hubbard had Trump shares in abundance. In my opinion he is a severely disordered person and I wouldn’t want him running a lemonade stand. Let alone being president of anything.

      • TRUMP?! A NARCISSIST?!?!! NO WAY!!!! He’s so humble! Meek even! Doesn’t broadcast his business dealings. Is so very respectful of other world leaders. He’s the opposite of a narcissist! The total, complete, opposite of a narcissist!!!

        • Mockingbird

          Sadly, there are people who are posting what you just said without sarcasm. They completely believe Trump is a humanitarian trying to make America great again. I want to know what greatness they long for ? Racism ? Xenophobia ? Religious discrimination ? The jobs that technology and outsourcing took away that are NEVER coming back ? Maybe white privilege ?

          • Now now, there’s no way Trump could spearhead a ‘white privilege’ movement, because he’s ORANGE!!! Or is orange the new white?

            He’s such a humble humanitarian, who wishes nothing more than to continue his life of public service as president. Why, he’d give his presidential salary to charity!! Melania Trump’s Dress Fund Charity, which is such a worthy worthy cause as I’m sure you’ve seen she often barely has anything to wear!

            • Mockingbird

              You should take this act to ESMB. They love him there, at least the more vocal members do.

            • I don’t really post there; why don’t you post your thoughts on Trump there? Unless you already have, then never mind.

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t mind her modeling. The fact that he treats women as sex objects is far more troubling. His statements like calling women pigs, etc. and saying he wants a hot piece of ass are indicative of his values, also his cheating on women again and again with younger women.

        • Draco

          Ha! You forgot to mention compassionate!

          • Oh yes soooo compassionate!!! His kindness can best be shown by this example: he wanted to ensure Ivana learned of his adultery before the press broke the news, so he sent one of his attorneys over to tell her and to remind her of their pre-nup. How kind and thoughtful was that? SO KIND, SO CONSIDERATE! MUCH CARING!

            [Uh, that’s totally made up, unless it really happened]

            • Missionary Kid

              I could be mistaken, but didn’t he then marry his mistress? His comments on the Clintons marital problems seems to me to be the pot calling the kettle black.

            • Yep he did marry her! His only American born wife—I only point that out due to his views. Yes, I know his foreign born wives came here legally, but still…..

    • He didn’t even spring for the dinner.

      TOM’S QUACKPOT FE$T TO HIT CITY April 6, 2007, David Seifman, New York Post

    • Mockingbird

      Somebody should share this on the Donald Trump thread at ESMB, a squad of folks there practically worship Trump as a messianic figure and won’t hear anything negative, whether it’s his racist comments, his misogynistic comments, his antisemitism, his Islamaphobia, his pathological lying, his connections to organized crime, his suing enemies into oblivion, his megalomania, his cheating on multiple wives, his lack of knowledge on basic political issues, his statements that wages are too high, his calling for violating human rights and murdering relatives of suspects, etc. or his similarities to Hubbard or narcissistic and sociopathic traits.

      They brush all that aside and just say he is a savior or our best hope, etc. . I wish after dealing with Hubbard they could see the similarities.

      • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

        I also see the obvious similarities.
        I know a person that loves Trump, but also Hubbard
        in blind devotion. Her life is amazingly screwed up in
        every imaginable way.
        She disconnected with me after I said too many truths
        about Hubbard which she could not look at.
        She cannot seem to connect her insanities with Scientology,
        and still goes after it outside the Church to no avail.
        All of the solutions I helped her with she made into new problems.

    • Sherbet

      Another reason to check off the “lunatic” box next to Trump’s name on my personal ballot.

  • BosonStark

    Whether it was saving the planet before it is too late, or starting a religion because that’s where the money is, Hubbard thought these grandiose statements were witty and impressive. Only a great man or a fool could take such challenges on, and Hubbard saw himself as a great man.

    He attracted enough followers to become rich and almost famous. I say “almost,” because none of his ideas affected society enough for them to be accepted or used by the general public. Most people still don’t know who Hubbard was or what he did. Tom Cruise is more famous for making movies than Hubbard is for all that he supposedly accomplished in philosophy, the science of the mind…

    And so the cult has to go on creating PR and reminding people how great he was, and by extension, how great Scientology is. Since he wasn’t good or distinguished in any one thing, they make him out to be exceptional and distinguished in a wide array of fields.

    Since he had no real answers, except ones which were borrowed from others, they sell him and Scientology as having all the answers. Scientology took Hubbard’s boasts and made them their own, and as an organization, for anyone who knows how they operate, they appear as foolish, duplicitous and as bloated as Hubbard was.

    So, he started a religion, because that’s where the money is. But can they go on to save the whole planet? Not likely. It’s pretty ironic that the one statement he was able to follow through with, starting a religion and becoming rich, his own cult will not acknowledge. Sure, someone said it before him, but someone said pretty much everything he said before he said it.

  • J. Swift

    While he was associated with Hubbard, van Vogt stated that he knew very little of Hubbard’s actual activities. He explained “Hubbard may have many followers, but he does not have any friends.”

    In Bare-Faced Messiah author Russell Miller relates comments from an interview with early Scientologist Jack Horner which offers direct support of van Vogt’s statement that Hubbard had no friends: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/bfm12.htm

    …John Galusha, the secretary of the HASI board of directors…had been working on the railroad in Colorado when he first heard about Dianetics and had thrown himself into it wholeheartedly. ‘I thought it was a privilege to work for Ron,’ he said. ‘Maybe he was a charlatan and a liar – I didn’t care. The point was that the tech was good. It worked.’ The ‘tech’ was the commonly used contraction for what Hubbard, the engineer, liked to describe as ‘the technology’ of Scientology.

    Galusha did not get to know Hubbard particularly well, but then very few people did. Jack Horner recalled a strange remark Hubbard once made: ‘We were out the back of his house and he was draining the radiator of his car because it was going to be unexpectedly cold that night. I said to him, “You know Ron, it would be nice if we could be closer friends.” There was a silence for a moment, then he replied, “Yeah, it would be nice, but I can’t have any friends.”‘

    For Hubbard, the best news of 1954 came towards the end of the year when he heard from Wichita that Don Purcell was giving up the fight for control of Dianetics. Purcell had tired of the seemingly endless litigation and the constant attacks from Scientologists. He had also became interested in an offshoot of Dianetics called Synergetics and when he decided to devote his future resources to Synergetics he handed the Wichita Foundation’s copyrights and mailing lists back to Hubbard, thankful to disentangle himself from the man he had once considered a saviour.

    • Mockingbird

      Some severely disordered people don’t believe they can have friends because they don’t really trust anyone. They don’t have normal attachments and ultimately don’t love anyone. That is a recipe for disaster.

    • ze moo

      Lroon is so much like Gollum/Smeagol…….F5

      • At least Gollum had nine teeth.

    • Cece

      But but but Jeff.. He was Man’s Best Friend.
      Jeff thanks for all you do. I truly don’t think I’d still be alive if not for the hope You, Karen, Tony, Mike, Marty, my partner, 2 kids (the ones that still speak to me) and hundreds of birds have given me. Oh and you guys commenting. I Hope all wounded hearts heal. It’s going to all turn out all right.

      • Draco

        (((Hugs)))

      • FredEX2

        Hugs to you Cece. I think most of us have had ‘one of those days’…or many of them… as we go thru the difficult process of healing…Sending you a little sunshine & cheer.

      • Hugs, Cece

    • Beth

      Having friends requires self-reflection and honesty. This man spent every waking moment inflating a false image of himself. The 2 don’t mix. He was allergic to Psychiatry for the same reason.

      • Except for that time he wrote to the VA for psychiatric help….if only they had replied!!

        • Observer

          If only they had institutionalized him for the rest of his miserable, destructive life…

          • Yep!!! Thanks, VA!

          • Mockingbird

            What misery the world would have avoided. But this is true with many evil leaders. Hitler was jailed before he took over Germany and could have been executed or committed for life. Shoko Asahara had legal issues long before his arrest and could have been stopped long before most of the murders his cult committed.

            Imagine if just a handful of these men were stopped. Some people have said the resources used in world war II could have ended world hunger and poverty if that war never occurred. And now the quality of life in America could be far higher if we never went into our permanent war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the middle east.

      • Eclipse-girl

        having friends requires empathy

  • A.E. van Vogt’s (1982) account of the history of California Association of Dianetic Auditors:
    http://ca-da.org/history/vanvogt_history.htm

  • Coming soon?

    Scientology Under Siege! Church Insider Planning Exposé On ‘Twisted’ Secrets

    L. Ron Hubbard‘s great-grandson Jamie DeWolf tells Radar that he’s been secretly filming his own exposé for months, and it’s set to blow the lid of the church once and for all!
    http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/scientology-movie-l-ron-hubbard-grandson-jamie-dewolf-expose/

    • ze moo

      Jamie’s family should have some juicy stories about Great Grand Pa. Hilarity will hopefully ensue.

    • Mockingbird

      I am excited about this. Jamie DeWolf has had some great information on Hubbard and I particularly liked his comment that Hubbard was more dangerous than a wolf in sheep’s clothing as he was a wolf in shepherd’s clothing. And a particularly ravenous wolf at that.

    • TonyOrtega

      Ha ha. Jamie is awesome, but he’s anything but a “church insider.”

      He had me interview his mom on camera, and also Paulette, for this project last May.

      • Yeah, but him doing this is pretty cool.

    • Vaquera

      He was conducting interviews during the Toronto “Getting Clear” event. Turned his hotel room into a film set….f5. (apologies if the attachment is huge)

    • Draco

      ““I’ve interviewed a couple of my own family members who have never really gone on the record before,” he revealed.”
      Now that’s something to look forward to…

  • Cece

    I’m truly flabbergasted. Why is it so hard to get this stuff from our government?

    • Missionary Kid

      Because, I would think, those files are so old and there are so many files. Remember that these were written with the same technology that the central files use: millions of pages, filled with miscellaneous information in addition to the nuggets culled out of them. It takes someone who knows their way around to ask the right organization for the information.

    • Robert Eckert

      Aside from what MK says, it’s not proper to release current contact information about people still living, or to compromise government informants. This stuff is now old enough that no heavy redaction was needed, but somebody still had to go over every page and check whether something should be blacked out.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    These reports about the Founder’s often unsavory conduct conclusively prove once and for all that it took COB RTC David Miscavige to pull Dianetics and Scientology from the mud and barbarism into which it had sunk with the Founder. All of which is to say that, yes, the world itself owes Mr. Miscavige a staggering debt of gratitude for the miraculous gifts that are GAT II and the Model Ideal Orgs.

    Had it been left to the Founder, Scientology would have remained a very decadent kicked-in-the-head Marcab society of the 1950’s where men wore fedoras, people drove Packard’s, and the Psychiatrist was free to shove
    an ice pick into the prefrontal lobes of those deemed “troublemakers” by the tax man. Thanks to Mr. Miscavige, however, this future was averted.

    And now please, if you’ll just step this way to the GAT II Implanting Chamber all of those evil thoughts and evil purposes you have about COB will disappear in a blinding flash of light. Any headaches, nosebleeds, extreme vertigo, bouts of uncontrollable crying, anxiety attacks, or terrifying nightmares associated with this ultra-advanced GAT II procedure will normally disappear in 2-3 months:

    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/Swift77/Dave_zpspoaqudmn.jpg

    • Roger that.
      COB’s amps go to 11. Founder’s only went to 10.

    • f5

      • One Human

        And you can forget about going anywhere else:
        (F5)

        • Now now, you can buy a key for $1 million, but use it QUICK before the new GAT II key is released!

    • Mockingbird

      I would love to see if Miscavige would descend into florid schizophrenia as Shoko Asahara did when he was isolated from his cult members and couldn’t maintain the support for his delusional relational system. Robert Jay Lifton and Daniel Shaw examined the guru and helped to show how cult leaders as traumatic narcissists, a kind of malignant narcissist, use a relational system of traumatic subjugation to control others. In this system the guru has a fractured mind as Lifton said and uses his victims as mirrors to reflect the reality he craves.

      This shared insanity helps the guru to avoid an inner self and world of worthlessness, deep shame, emotional emptiness and immaturity and self loathing and an unbearable double bind of wanting to be happy but feeling entirely undeserving of happiness. The outer facade of perfection, divinity, and infallible superiority is accomplished with constant denial of negative traits and projection of those traits outward onto others with pathological lying as the normal operating basis.

      The cult members act as the support system for this delusional reality. It is simultaneously believed and known to be a lie by the guru. Doublethink is natural in this pathology. It is intentionally shared by the guru to the degree that he knows how to twist language and thought and that he has influence upon his slaves.

      When the followers are taken away and the ability to escape legal consequences is reached and one can’t hide as Hubbard said and descends to total failure as he realizes no one around him will fall for any of his lies and he will never escape prison he can have the ability to maintain his fractured mind with his delusional avoidance of his unpleasant and unbearable inner self shatter and his mind may descend into the florid schizophrenia gurus dread and seek to avoid at all costs.

      I feel some gurus even get a taste of florid schizophrenia and will use suicide or mass suicide to avoid this fate. The only question is does Miscavige have the pathology to display this behavior ?

      And to what extent did Hubbard ? He surely was a guru with malignant narcissism in my opinion, but to what extent did he descend into schizophrenia when he realized Scientology was a failure ? Late in his life he reportedly became far less able to maintain the mask of sanity, even to his most devoted followers. Was this aspects of florid schizophrenia breaking through and would they have been far more pronounced if he lost his devoted caretakers, influence and freedom from incarceration ?

      To me it is ultimately fascinating to look into his twisted mind. After spending decades in his thrall seeing him for who he was frees me from his lies and delusions. I certainly don’t want or need them.

      • Missionary Kid

        Are you talking about Hubbard, or Trump?

        • Mockingbird

          This comment started with Miscavige and moved onto Hubbard.

          • Missionary Kid

            I wasn’t really commenting on your excellent post, but on the characteristics that Trump seems to display that are in common with those two examples of pustulence.

            • Mockingbird

              Well, I am more than a little disappointed that Trump has a strong and passionate crowd of ex Scientologists singing his praises. Some of whom studied Hubbard and cult leaders for years. They can’t see the similarities at all.

        • Always Amazed

          ~snort~

    • Draco

      This is what he is really thinking…f5

    • ze moo

      I like the floatie mountains. Reminds me of a Rocky and Bullwinkle episode with ‘upsidaisum’ and CIA operative Captain Peter Peachfuzz.

      http://kisscartoon.me/Cartoon/The-Bullwinkle-Show/Upsidaisium-Parts-35-36?id=30886

  • Racnad

    It is curious that Dr. Joseph A Winter’s book is often misreported as “A Doctor Looks at Dianetics.” The actual title is “A Doctor’s Report on Dianetics.” I own a copy and I just took a look to verify it.

    • “A Doctor Looks at Dianetics” is the opening line of the advertisements that ran for it. They pulled a fast one on Hubbard at the time. It had been promised Winters would publish a clinical study of sorts, a medical professional validating the science. Instead, he published his pro-psychosomatic theory but anti-dianetics book. So when it came out, the ads deceptively made it seem like the original promise was being kept and unsuspecting buyers got hit with a book that deflated the Dianetics fad hype instead of validating it.

  • Cece

    In my 35 years of this cult, L Ron Hubbard was ‘Mans Best Friend’. Very shitty story. My life was wasted. But at least I got more to go. I’d like to say one thing to Mr. L. Ron Hubbard. F**k you x 100,100 +. May all us broken souls heal ourselves.

    • Mockingbird

      Hubbard’s meaning of best was most powerful or influential and his meaning of friend was someone that is trusted.

      • Someone who would control others.

        • Mockingbird

          Bingo. Remember in his affirmations Hubbard said “men are your slaves” and , “It doesn’t give me displeasure to hear of a virgin being raped. The lot of women
          is to be fornicated.”

    • Mark Foster

      What´s that line from The Shawshank Redemption? Something like ” get busy living or get busy dying” ? Keep going, Cece. Carpe Diem. And I heartily concur with your passionate “fuck you” directed to L. Con Flubbard, that misogynistic, racist, lying, criminal, smegmatic wankstain motherfucker.

      • Missionary Kid

        You’re too kind.

      • Sherbet

        You’re right on the money, Mark. Some days I can laugh off lrh’s idiocy, and other days, I’m thinking multiple curses. I wish he had never been born. His legacy of damage continues.

      • ze moo

        You rant well…..’smegmatic’…..giggle……

        • Missionary Kid

          Believe it or not, but I once saw a California vanity license plate that had “SMEGMA” on it. I’m willing to bet that it had slipped past the censors and was eventually recalled by the DMV.

          • Draco

            Sigh…old age… I keep forgetting what that word means. And then I google it AGAIN!

            • Missionary Kid

              I also saw one on a Cadillac convertible that said “COCAINE”. I assumed it was some lawyer that made his money defending people from drug charges, but who knows?

              I knew someone who had the word “WEED” on their VW bus license plate, but they got rid of it because they kept getting stopped by the cops.

            • Draco

              The weed bus is funny! 😀

            • Robert Eckert

              At a Grateful Dead concert I saw a van with a bumper sticker “Bad Cop, No Donut!” and had to shake my head: I bet that van often contained reasons to not want a cop pulling them over.

            • Mockingbird

              With videos !

            • Draco

              Luckily, I always go for the words first! No vids or pics for this search… uh uh.

          • Mockingbird

            It’s just a body fluid. Censorship won’t take it away.

            • Missionary Kid

              Not just a fluid, but “cheesy sebaceous matter” that collects around the genitalia.

            • Mockingbird

              How romantic.

        • Mark Foster

          Scaling the Scatalogical Summit with Eschatological Epithets…The Tilden Turd Deserves no less…

      • Cece

        I intend to do so. Despite all else. Thanks Mark.

      • Mockingbird

        Gee Mark, how do you really feel ? Not interested in joining the Ron Hubbard fan club ? Not even for a fancy trophy ?

        • Mark Foster

          I see that you are admiring my refined, subtle, and cultured expression…

          • Mockingbird

            I think you express what most Scientologists do when they realize they were fooled with an intentional con that has no benefit whatsoever. And that Hubbard never cared at all about them.

    • Missionary Kid

      May your healing be rapid and complete so that some day you will look back and say, “Oh, yeah, I was associated with that insanity.” I hope that it may be like looking in a rear view mirror while the scene of the insanity disappears for you.

      May all of Hubbard’s victims be healed.

      • Draco

        May all of Hubbard’s victims be healed and reconnected with their loved ones.

        • Missionary Kid

          That’s even better.

    • Ruby

      Cece, I understand and have similar feelings of regret at times, but please do not think your life was wasted. Look at how much you learned from the experience and how much you can now help others because of it. You will never be fooled again. That is extremely valuable in my book.
      We all have our path in life and this one taught you the most valuable lesson ever about truth and integrity. Some people never learn it. You have.
      Sending love your way.

      • Draco

        The true regret comes when you lose your kids to this cult. That can break a soul. All the lessons in the world are not worth that!

        • Ruby

          So sad.
          This cult needs to be gone.

        • Cece

          Draco.. it hurts real bad.

          • Draco

            This is why I hate this cult. All the other shit they do doesn’t even touch this.
            I have lost “friends”, but thank God my kids got out before I did. I could not have dealt with what you need to deal with daily. Fuck scientology.

          • Robert Eckert

            May this be the year!

      • Cece

        Thank you Ruby

    • MaxSpaceman

      Good to go with that was all then, this is now, Cece.

      Not wasted, on the other hand, Cece. Another judgment less harsh more like an evaluation is that a Once-Ins’ years/decades spent in Scientology equates with an individual struggling with Substance Use Disorder for 35 years- and now is doing sobriety one day at a time; and it equates with an individual struggling with Mental Health Disorder for 35 years, and surviving its ravages, until now- one day at a time, in mental health recovery, the person is rebuilding their life, establishing new goals and plans, and is living life as never before.

      You’re doing fine. Let go a little from that chunk of the past. Ease yourself on down the road. 🙂

      • daisy

        This ( arrows pointing upward )

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Cece I am visualizing your soul in the soft light of healing, and I am so very glad that you are out.

  • Draco

    “He thought Hubbard may have been married four times as he said he once saw a letter from a woman in New Orleans who intimated that she was once married to Hubbard. He did not remember the woman’s name or any other facts about this alleged marriage.”

    Oh really?! First time I have heard of this… Wouldn’t it be fun if we found another (bigamous, trigamous?) marriage and maybe some offspring?

    • Mockingbird

      Another family with Hubbard inflicted upon them ? That sounds as “fun” as finding a house full of tortured and dismembered victims of a serial killer. Not exactly fun to me. Those people had to suffer.

      • Draco

        You are right. Fun is not the right word. But it would be interesting if there was a totally hidden 4th marriage.

        • Mockingbird

          The frustrating thing is Scientologists would mostly ignore it just as they do the mountains of evidence they already have.

      • Lighthouse

        One shouldn’t be literal. Of course, it would be fun. If it was indeed a fact that there was a fourth marriage, it is what it is. The damage is done and a long, long time ago. Finding out doesn’t change anything – except we have more damaging information about the megalomaniac.

        No need to be so serious, me thinks.

        • Mockingbird

          It’s sad to think of another family going through the abuse he dished out.

    • Robert Eckert

      van Vogt may simply have been a little confused: he says that in 1949-50 Hubbard was shifting from calling his stuff “science” to calling it “religious” but Dianetics wasn’t even published until 1950 so he must mean a couple years later.

      • Draco

        I noticed that too.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        I also saw that. It might mean that Hubbard had started his cult much earlier but it took a while to sort out what duped people, and what didn’t.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he had had a few SF authors and groupies under his wing in 48,49 trying out his hypnotic regression bizness in Hollywood before he was convinced by his success at selling his fabulation to write “Dianetics.”

        I wouldn’t think a careful FDA investigator would make a mistake like that, or that Van Vogt would have forgotten by 1963 what year he got involved with Hubbard’s crap.

        Van Vogt might simply be telling the facts: That Hubbard had already envisioned that he would have to protect his lunacy under the banner of religion as early as 1948, and that this lead to his making his famous “start your own religion” statements. With many engineers and scientists involved in early Dianetics, he could not refute their objections to it’s non-scientific foundations and procedures. He possibly explained it away as “religious (like) philosophy.” And that the idea of shifting it over officially into a “religion angle” only happened when commercial failure, lawsuits, and other disasters made him have to reinvent. So he used the idea he had been incubating for years.

    • Lighthouse

      Oh, yes. that would be fun! I wouldn’t put it past him, not at all!

    • ze moo

      Or did Hubbtard introduce his latest mistress as his ‘wife’? When all other explanations fail, Hubbtard lied.

      • Missionary Kid

        He lied when no other explanations failed, too.

        • Sherbet

          He lied only on days that end with “day.”

  • Lighthouse

    Hubbard got away with so much, didn’t he. Except that he became a paranoid recluse, always hiding or running. Perhaps, he didn’t get away with anything, really. He created his own prison.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I find it telling that the science fiction writers of the 40’s and 50’s all try t distance themselves from Hubbard and scientology years later even though they had their own private club of sorts. It seems Heinlein was the main character figure that Hubbard irritated the most and it was Heinlein would had the actual connections. Even those who say they didn’t know Hubbard that much sure had strong opinions after having dealt with the likes of him.

    Hubbard even mooched free rent at Heinleins for a while and naturally tried to move in on the women in that circle. I might have to read this book again now just to see if there was a New Orleans woman mentioned! Hubbard’s mental state left him jumping from one interest to another so he may have considered science fiction drudgery, but one things for sure – he was always on the run from debtors and people he had double crossed, usually broke and looking for a new money making scam. I found it ironic that one of the science fiction attendants at that meeting where Ron was said to have made the religion angle remark was Martin H Greenberg. I wonder if Hubbard approved of another Martin Greenberg later on to be his accountant in the 70’s, and be the one who shielded him for years against the IRS.

    This is the book I mentioned yesterday. There are quotes from another of revealing letters. Today’s reveals are fascinating pieces of the puzzle once again. Has there ever been a time when the government hasn’t had an eye on this organization? In this biography of Heinlein I found many parallels of Hubbard trying to emulate not only his success but his whole life, experiences, skills and history. Hubbard was a chameleon from the beginning.

    http://www.amazon.com/Robert-A-Heinlein-Dialogue-1907-1948/dp/0765319624/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1WJNS5P4GDRB9FMMV2GT#reader_0765319624

    • ze moo

      Heinlein was the ‘grand master’ of early sci-fi, only because he sold a lot of stories and made enough to be able to afford a suite at the early sci-fi conventions. All the authors hung out there and partied with him.

      I am particularly incensed by the constant mention of Lron being a ‘sci-fi author’. He wrote a lot of stuff, mostly in other areas like crime, westerns and ‘adventure’ stories. He was a hack and took any job when he got paid.

      He wasn’t being paid much by 1945-1950, that is why Dianetics came about. He had sponged off enough people that no one would put up with him anymore. He finally had to make his own way. And he did it by selling a piece of blue sky.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I agree wholeheartedly about Hubbard referenced in with these great sci fi authors, He did fantasy too, but sci fi – he was always coasting on someone else’s credentials and credit cards! I feel the same way every time scientology is referenced as a religion.

      • Also, the stories which historians of SF typically characterise as his best (e.g. ‘Typewriter in the Sky”) were actually fantasys – Hubbard didn’t have the application to do the research required for science fiction nor, I believe, the intellect to understand the implications of cutting-edge science that the best stories were based upon.

    • Chee Chalker

      Nobody liked the blowhard…….

      https://youtu.be/Oj-w09kpQcY

      • Cedilla

        A transcription from WWP.
        1/2 way down.
        fyi-this link will take you out of the bunker.
        use the time stamp to open another link.

        https://whyweprotest.net/threads/scientology-james-randi-on-l-ron-hubbard.96995/

        • Chee Chalker

          Thank you for linking that….I could not make out everything said in the video so that transcript was helpful!
          I just love James Randi.
          WBM is great too!
          That is a lunch I would love to go to……Amazing and Mark Bunker.
          Throw our proprietor in there for a Hat Trick……now there’s a party!

        • Robert Eckert

          You can also right-click rather than left-click (or whatever is the alternate-click on your particular device) on the blue link to use the open in new tab option without losing your place in this thread.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      and NOT a single scientologist in KNOWS ANY OF THIS? ANY of hubbard’s nature and how he ran (and ran and ran) his life? in fact, don’t even know, but MORE importantly? never thought to know, never want to know and now, wouldn’t believe it if shown….. that is some unbelievable scary FECES truth!..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Geez Tracy, none of us knew a darn thing about a damn thing. Besides the intense micro managed compartmentilization, any good cult worth it’s salt scrubs the history of it’s organization and it’s leader. I ran across this biography when I got curious about Heinlein as well as any details about Heinlein and Hubbard. I was a classic sci fi buff too and this was book was quite a festival of fun facts.

        No one would get involved with scientology or any other scam if they were given factual information when they walked in the door. What I object to when it comes to the sci whales and celebs and the question comes up of what they knew, at this point there are too many red flags that even the “special” ones can’t say they didn’t know, like 95% of scientologists are gone, and a whole lot more than 2 1/2% are declared! Also, the veteran Sea Org that have waited on them over the decades just disappear when they get older or sick.

    • I’ve often thought that Hubbard envied and aspired to Heinleins’ style, influence and gravitas. He modelled his ‘throw away’ lines on the banter typical among Heinleins’ fictional characters, whose talents verged on power fantasy.

      I’ve seen and read the book https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/robert-a-heinlein-a-real-science-fiction-authors-experience-with-l-ron-hubbard/

  • chukicita

    I would love to see that Pipsqueak Prometheus article by Blackbeard. It’s too bad he passed away in 2011, would have been interesting to hear his perspectives now.

    Cushing Library at Texas A&M University library says it’s here: http://sffrd.library.tamu.edu/browse/28621/

  • BraveBloggers

    What I find most disturbing is the length of time this has been on the Government’s radar, and it still is on their radar. Though not much action that we can see.

    I’ll keep hoping and doing my oart in the interim, but now is as good a time as any to remind those inclined to send letters (detailed and specific) to your congressional reps, Senators, Governor, IRS, and anyone else you think may be able to assist.

    • Doc M

      I kept thinking the same and than it struck me that Scientology is a tiny annoyance on the government’s chart. Yes, I know so many are harmed by it, but in the whole scheme of things, it’s apparently not that important. What made me realize this is looking at the U.S. governmental spending for 2015.

      Here is a link to that and remember that a Trillion is one thousand billions.

      https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

      • Tracy Schmitz

        that is just about the only thing that makes sense (other then many are bought) is that the f.b.i. and government have WAY bigger fish to fry then a stupid abusive 30 to 40 thousand member worldwide cult…..no, i think it will have to be a combination of outside sources that slowly and continually do so destroy and end this cult for all time with a little help from the govt. and authorities.

    • chukicita

      The federal government doesn’t want another Ruby Ridge or Waco. They also know Scn, Inc. has billions offshore.

      Local governments are too small to take them on – for instance, I’m sure Clearwater would love to see all that property returned to the tax rolls. But governments constantly make the mistake of dealing with Scn as if it were a legitimate organization. There are too many confounding rabbit holes built in, and to paraphrase, ain’t nobody got time (or manpower) for that.

      One way might be to reform tax exemption for poser nonprofits, but even then it will be a long haul. Look how long it took to snag Capone.

    • One Human

      I’m astounded LRH wasn’t crushed into a fine powder in the 1950s.

  • Missionary Kid

    My oldest sister got involved with Dianetics at van Vogt’s organization about, 58, or 59. I went with her to a meeting one night. She went off to another room to do I don’t know what, and I was in a room with other (I assume) newbies. I was not quite a teenager.

    One exercise that we were taught to ground ourselves to the present time was to “walk” the walls, where we would put our hands on the walls and walk them across them and around the room. I guess it was an exercise to make us aware of our surroundings.

    My motivation for going to the Dianetics meeting with my sister had to do with the chance that I might actually meet a science fiction author. I’d started reading the genre about 2 or 3 years before, and devoured anything I could find. I was already reading the latest issues of Astounding and Fantasy and Science fiction each month when they came into the library, but nowhere was there any mention of Dianetics in Astounding, probably because Campbell had had enough of Hubbard.

    When I first came here, I thought that van Vogt had been fair gamed. Tony quickly disabused me of that after consulting with, IIRC, Jon Atack. What caused me to think that was that I had read an entry on van Vogt in Wikipedia that made that claim, but it had subsequently been edited to remove it, and I hadn’t seen the updated entry. I made an ass out of myself, but, hopefully, I learned.

    • Cece

      Well well well, Your are one in a Million MK.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks. I’m relatively thick skinned on the ‘net. As I look at it, it’s only wasted electrons. (If admitting to making an ass out of myself is what you’re referring to).

    • ithilien

      Not an ass certainly to think hubbard might fair fame a competitor. You told me once you were from a very conservative religious family, how did your sister get interested in dianetics ? Was it of a y interest to her?

      • Missionary Kid

        My sister was having an emotional crisis when she got involved. Remember that Dianetics wasn’t selling itself as a religion, but as a way of overcoming problems. Van Vogt didn’t go along with Hubbard into $cientology.

        Ironically, a few months later, I came home (she had moved back into my parent’s house) and found her in the back yard, burning all of her notes and Dianetics materials. She always has been an inveterate note taker. She declared that Dianetics was “of the Devil” and flipped the other way and became an ultra-fundamentalist Christian, which was even more fundamentalist than the way that I was raised. While I believe that my parents were happy that she was reaffirming her allegiance to Jesus, I had the sense that they were a bit taken aback by course of her faith.

        She’s now 68 years old, and she’s been searching the bible for answers to her life ever since. Unfortunately, IMO, devoting her life to a book written by bronze and iron age people who believed in slavery, for instance, has some short comings.

        • Doc M

          Yes, the beauty of words.

          You can find anything you want in the Bible or in Hubbard’s books. It’s all in the interpretation.

    • Cece

      MK – How is your sister now?

      • Missionary Kid

        Still very religious, involved with what appears, from a distance, to be a benign, almost cult-like group, but it keeps her busy and there’s no disconnection. She’s not going to change at her age. She seems happy, so it’s OK with me, even though I think it’s a waste.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It’s only natural to want to see the best for your loved ones. It is hard to watch them when you know they could likely be helped with the right medical attention. It sounds like there’s no malevolence in what she’s involved in, so that is a consolation especially if she seems happy and not cutting off relationships.

          How interesting your story is about wanting to meet your sci fi author.

    • Cedilla

      ” I made an ass out of myself, but, hopefully, I learned”.
      Because of Wikipedia?

      I kinda believe you’re the only one who thought that.

      “Hopefully, I learned”.
      There. Fixed.

  • Mockingbird

    Oh , hearing about what a lech Asimov was reminded it is almost time for a special tradition. Last year I started the Affirmations Dating game. You can send romantic messages for Valentine’s day, but the catch is you have to entirely use quotes from the Affirmations for content.

    Here are some Hubbard quotes for examples:

    You know you are a master. You know they will be thrilled. You can come many times without weariness. The act does not reduce your vitality or brain power at all. You can come several times and still write. Intercourse does not hurt your chest or make you sore. Your arms are strong and do not ache in the act. Your own pleasure is not dependent on the woman’s.
    Ron Hubbard

    You are interested only in your own sexual pleasure. If she gets any that is all right but not vital. Many women are not capable of pleasure in sex and anything adverse they say or do has no effect whatever upon your pleasure. Their bodies thrill you. If they repel you, it merely means they themselves are too frigid or prudish to be bothered with. They are unimportant in bed except as they thrill you. Your sexual power is magnificent and they know it. If they are afraid of it, that is their loss. You are not affected by it.
    Ron Hubbard

    You have no fear if they conceive. What if they do? You do not care. Pour it into them and let fate decide. The slipperier they are the more you enjoy it because it means their mucous is running madly with pleasure. There is nothing wrong in the sex act. Nothing any woman may say can change your opinion. You are a master. You are as sensitive and sexy as Pan. Lord help women when you begin to fondle them. You are master of their bodies, master of their souls as you may consciously wish. You have no karma to pay for these acts. You cannot now accumulate karma for you are a master adept. Your voice is low and compelling to them. Singing to them, for you sing like a master, destroys their will to resist. You obey the conventions, you commit no crimes because you need not. You can be intelligently aware of their morals and the laws of the land and fit your campaign expertly within them.
    Ron Hubbard

    From:
    http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015_02_01_archive.html?m=0

    • Sherbet

      Damn! I’m in love already with the silver-tongued devil. He sure knows how to sweet talk a girl.

      • Missionary Kid

        ~Laughing and snickersnorting at your snark~
        What a self-centered asshole he was. No wonder he didn’t have any friends.

      • Mockingbird
        • Sherbet

          Jeez, more crap, I mean pillow talk. Obsessed with a low libido much, hmmm, Ron?

        • Chee Chalker

          There goes lunch…..

          • Mockingbird

            Ha ha. Time for the new Ron The Lover mag.

            • Sherbet

              I do NOT want to see the centerfold.

            • Mockingbird

              Full nudes of Hubbard’s “greatness”.

            • Sherbet

              Noooo! Not the Body Thetan! Put a tarp over that thing!

            • Mockingbird

              With the hey girl meme.

            • Sherbet

              Mockingbird! Some of us are preparing to have lunch soon.

            • Mockingbird

              Ha ha ! You like the Ryan Gosling version. Here’s the other side of the coin.

            • Sherbet

              Compared to a Hubbard centerfold, I’d rather see the Burt Reynolds’ “Playgirl” pose…at his current age…with no toupee and those funky red glasses…reading AARP magazine.

            • Mockingbird

              I will skip them all.

    • Chee Chalker

      Oh my….,sounds like Tom Cruise’s character from ‘Magnolia’

      • Tracy Schmitz

        exactly.. read my comment above!…

    • Singing to them? Was he white red headed Barry White?

      • Juicer77

        “Thank You For Lubricating”

        • Sherbet

          Can you hear me laughing from there, Juicer?

          • Juicer77

            XD
            I’ll go stand facing the corner. But it was worth it. 😉

            • Sherbet

              Definitely.

        • Mockingbird

          Where is that genius Weird Al Yankovic ? This would be awesome !

          • Sherbet

            lrh was a walking, talking parody. His BS doesn’t need Weird Al’s magic touch.

          • Missionary Kid

            Calling pan!

            • Mockingbird

              Yes !! Please make a new shoop !

    • Juicer77

      *urp*

    • Sherbet

      Now, let me get this straight: scientologists actually read the affirmations? And they still have respect for lrh? And they condone his sexual philosophy that’s born out of the dark ages and his own obsessions?

      • Mockingbird

        No, the Affirmations are only available outside Scientology. They are to me the Rosetta stone to translate Scientology and cut through Hubbard’s lies. In Scientology they are not allowed EVER.

        • Sherbet

          Oh. What about his racist ramblings?

          • Mockingbird

            I had to do a lot of digging after leaving Scientology to find them. You see one or two comments in very old books or tapes but without context you don’t get the whole picture or his worst statements.

            • Sherbet

              Gotcha.

            • Mockingbird

              Here’s the best collection of Hubbard’s racist remarks I have found. He would make Donald Trump proud. Maybe this is what Trump considers making America great again.

              http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm.

            • Sherbet

              I’m not sure I want to make myself that sick at the moment, but, thanks, I’ll bookmark it. I like the title “Can the Church Deny it?” Um, absolutely.

            • Mockingbird

              Oh, it definitely is disgusting. Imagine when I first left the cult and found out about hypnotism, thought reform, forced abortions, abuses on the RPF and Hubbard’s racism.

              It was fucking brutal for about two months straight. Scientology is really always worse than you think. Not to mention Hubbard’s modeling his cult after Hitler and Crowley.

            • Sherbet

              I’m glad you got out. I’m glad when anyone gets out. The man wasn’t just selling a piece of blue sky. He was selling a rotten pile of horse…stuff.

            • Mockingbird

              Permanent slavery as a mental pseudo clone of a malignant narcissist with growing paranoia, isolation and possible schizophrenia as you lose the fraying ends of sanity ? Who doesn’t want that !

            • Sherbet

              I’d pay thousands of bucks for that!

            • Mockingbird

              Good news, it’s still available at your nearest Scientology org !

            • Sherbet

              Good news! My local org has gone from a fancy downtown brownstone to a storefront in a strip mall 15 miles south.

            • JaxNGold

              A woman posted recently on Mike’s blog. She just got out of the cult within the last few months and thanked Mike and all the commenters for giving her confidence and actual facts about $cientology — which has helped to free her from the lies and mind control. How awesome is that.

            • Doc M

              I read his quotes from your link.

              Bird, do not take the following in any way as to justify racism or Hubbard.

              It’s important to remember that Hubbard was a person of his time, which is further evidence that he could not have been the “Philosopher, Explorer, Scientist etc” that Church claims.

              In the 20’s and 30’s, racism was more outwardly visible. (of course it still exists, just more hidden these days).

              Society was by in large pretty segregated, not just in the south either. (Baseball. The Military, Colleges etc).

              Hubbards rantings just make him human, not some seer of mankind. Just a prolific writer and highly damaged human. Sociopath?

            • Mockingbird

              This is a highly disputed area right now. Daniel Shaw contends that ALL systems of oppression spring from traumatic narcissism. I certainly don’t buy the product of his time excuse. Because Hubbard hid it when it was not convenient for his enlightened OT act. He knew he was a hypocrite.

            • Doc M

              I haven’t read Shaw, but would that account for all oppression throughout history i.e. Egyptians using slaves 4500 years ago, or Romans, or Britain building an empire off the slave trade?

              If what he says is correct, than is he saying that an entire society can exhibit traumatic narcissism?

            • Mockingbird

              You can ask him as he is on Facebook. The work of Cialdini in his book Influence and the book Age Of Propaganda, as well as the Sociopath Next Door and On Killing touch on this.

              Neuroscientist David Eagleman discusses this as does Phil Zimbardo in the Lucifer Effect. It is a highly controversial area.

            • Mockingbird

              And influence is on a spectrum. The classic example of Hitler and the German military and people has been explored by Lifton. The Nazi Doctors is particularly disturbing. As is the manifest destiny used to justify nearly successful genocide of native Americans as well as slavery.

            • Mockingbird

              I think a good way to look at it is what would you think of a society that enslaved you ? Or allowed genocide of your people ?

            • Mockingbird
            • Doc M

              Thanks Bird, I just watched the Video. The video actually brought up more questions than answers.
              Psychology is in no way my field.
              Just off the top of my head (again with no expertise), I would think that the topic of cult leader is more complex. I’ll ask my wife about this as she is very seeped in psychoanalytic theory.
              I also wonder how much mis-wiring in the brain is involved.

              We can compare Hubbard to other cult leaders, but I’m not sure they share all the characteristics. I do think it is a very complex topic and also shows how much there is still to learn.

            • Mockingbird

              I was very hesitant to look at the narcissist and sociopath approach at first but got information on narcissists and found it fit both Hubbard and the cult members extraordinarily well. I kept reading descriptions of the behaviours and inner world of narcissists and malignant narcissists in particular and found it perfectly fit Hubbard.

              I got very detailed information on Hubbard and his childhood from Jon Atack and feel he exactly fits the golden child model for a person who developed into a malignant narcissist. And Margaret Singer and Robert Jay Lifton have further information that compliments this. Then Daniel Shaw runs even further to both concur with them AND explain the relationships between cult leader and members to show how they are subjugated through traumatic abuse. And information from totalistic identity theory and cognitive dissonance theory and hypnosis also agree with this model. It’s not a slap-dash guesstimate.

            • I tend to raise an eyebrow at any, relatively simple, theory which claims to provide an explanation for such a wide range of complex phenomnenon. That it might play a role in some aspects of repression is reasonable (if backed up by argument and evidence) is reasonable… but all repression everywhere. That seems to be a bit of a stretch.

              For example, it does seems to overlook the existance of structural influences and persistant social patterns.

            • Mockingbird

              Well, I certainly have not accepted it as entirely correct. And it is in my opinion not a simple concept. Traumatic Narcissism involves relationships and trauma in very complex ways.

              I think examinations of Daniel Shaw’s work and a lot of other information is necessary to form an educated opinion.

              I certainly haven’t seen enough.

            • I did say relatively simple, and certainly not simplistic. This theory is, however, limited to a single (psychological) perspective, which is silent on the structural, economic foundations of slavery and indentured servitude, for one.

              I’m not saying that it might not explain a lot, but any theory (like psychoanalysis) which seems to be able to explain everything often turns out to to explain nothing because it can never be falsified.

              There’s never one simple answer to a complicated question.

            • Mockingbird

              I cannot speak for Shaw and don’t consider the idea proven. I would just be a strawman.

              Here’s Shaw himself:
              https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TISvFOq-kMwhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TISvFOq-kMw

            • Robert Eckert

              Even in the context of his day this was ugly.

            • Doc M

              Yes, very ugly and very alive and very real.

            • Doc M

              I think the difference between Hubbard and Trump is that Trump is targeting his fear and hate rhetoric to attract a lower socioeconomic part of society, but in the end it’s all theatrics.

              Hubbard, actually believed his stuff, at least in the beginning.

            • Mockingbird

              From his teenage years he studied hypnosis. He knew Dianetics was entirely fraudulent. The research he claims among other things is entirely false. And he certainly knew he was using hypnosis.

            • Mockingbird

              Trump is so narcissistic he may actually think he is a great ruler, despite being a horrible person who has crushed and abused people for decades. He doesn’t see his own flaws or evil acts.

            • Doc M

              Sounds like the head of so many huge businesses.

            • That rather implies that there are fewer bigots in the population of rich people – which is not my (admittedly limited) experience of people with money. Trump himself seems to me to be a rich bigot.

            • Doc M

              I think these days when billions and tens of billions are at stake, bigotry takes a back seat.

              As far as Trump, I’d bet he’s had the best market researchers money can buy to advise him which segment of the population would be most receptive to which type of campaign approach he might be advised to take.

              I think that when it comes to presidential campaigns, we see only 10% and 90% are the hidden machinations/manipulations.

              I sincerely doubt that Trump wants to be president, but if he does, than he has his own game plan which would further his own agenda and I don’t for a second think it’s altruistic.

              Some might call me cynical, but I call it as I see it. (just my opinion)

            • Sherbet

              OT but sort of not OT: I always thought modern US civilization is supposed to sort of skip by and ignore the inflammatory words in the Declaration of Independence where Native Americans are referred to as “Merciless Indian Savages.” We’ll just pretend the founding fathers never said it. //whistling, whistling//

            • Mockingbird

              Better to face that they were racist, misogynistic and authorized slavery. Deal with reality and not mythology.

            • Qbird

              Native American Says ~

            • Sherbet

              Native American speaks the truth. And don’t get me started on the Boston Tea Party, where our much respected colonists dressed as Indians with face paint…so they could do the job incognito. Yup. Blamed it on the Indians.

              Sorry — I get wound up when I think of the little rotten injustices that hide inside the history books.

            • One Human

              Not to mention that maintaining slavery in light of England moving away from it was a huge motivation for the Revolution.

            • Mark Foster

              Sherb, they were slave-owners as well. African slaves were not regarded as citizens, much less humans.

            • Sherbet

              Yes, another inconvenient truth.

      • Draco

        Oh no – The affirmations are not known to scientologists in general. They will only find these if they go online. I was shocked and disgusted when I found them.
        Not sure if it was Gerry Armstrong that came across them when he was going through hubbard’s papers or not, but it shows who he really is. I think most scientologists would be shocked to read these, and probably wouldn’t believe he wrote them.

        • Sherbet

          I guess that detail slipped by me. I couldn’t imagine how “millions” could revere L. Ron Fraud if they had read the affirmations.

        • JaxNGold

          Of course they’d be in denial, as per usual.

    • Qbird

      Rondo’s Axiom 39: The reward of an organism engaging upon survival activity is pleasure.

      • Sherbet

        Jeez, the only thing missing from that picture is drool from his fishlips. Ew.

      • Bunker Buggy Betsy

        Thruston Howell The Turd!

      • all that talk of strong arms, not needing a woman’s pleasure….he was totally jerking himself off….

        f5

        • Mockingbird

          That’s worth stealing !

      • Mockingbird

        He looks like a deranged Benny Hill ! (Yakety Sax begins playing)

      • Mockingbird
    • Tracy Schmitz

      sounds religious/church/faith holy and moral to me from the leader of a “religion” and mankind’s greatest friend! (on a serious note, this explains WHY in EVERYTHING he wrote he denounced and degraded women and never once referred to them in his mankind writings)! hmm, i wonder did TC read this and memorize it by heart when he did his character in “magnolia”…. scum-bard would be proud! and gosh knows TC is… why he salutes the portrait of a dead person (yes, DEAD in all it’s definitions!) and had the insane temerity to exclaim that when he was done saluting and kissing DM’s ass (this time in public) that he had never “blah, blah, blah” got as much (i’m paraphrasing here!) from DM outside of what he received from LRH? … hmm, uh, wasn’t LHR done dead BEFORE you got into the cult you moron TC?….

      • Mockingbird

        I would be quite surprised if TC ever saw the Affirmations. Scientology doesn’t promote them and if ever asked says they are fakes, except in court. Heber Jentzsch admitted they were real in attempting to suppress them. I found a quote of him saying they were Hubbard’s private thoughts and all men have such thoughts or a very similar remark. As if we are all trying to covertly enslave mankind with a fake religion based on hypnosis.

    • Len Zinberg

      Why do you write that Asimov is a “lech”?
      Did I miss s/g?
      Or did you mean Hubbard?

      • Mockingbird

        Paulette made a comment about him.

    • JaxNGold

      Disgusting scumbag.

      “Your sexual power is magnificent and they know it.”

      Gag. Sounds like he’s trying to convince himself of his own sex appeal. Ew. I need some Pepto now.

      • Mockingbird

        Well as affirmations are self hypnosis he was trying to convince himself.

        • There may also have been an element of the ritual magic he learned from Parsons, which persisted in Scientology in the form of ‘postulation’ – that is if you really, really believe you can change reality by force of will.

          Hubbard really thought that if he concentrated on these propostions hard enough, he could make them all come true.

          One thing’s for sure – they reveal a lot about his insecurities and absolutely self-centred nature.

  • Mockingbird

    I just read one of Hubbard’s lines from the Affirmations:
    “You can come several times and still write.” Ron Hubbard

    Now, why would you write that !?

    Was he feverishly pounding out letters to Penthouse forum or something !? How much sex do you have to have for it to impair your ability to write ?

    • “How much sex do you have to have for it to impair your ability to write ?”

      i nt sre
      wll lt yu knw

      • Mockingbird

        Oh boy. No shoop required !

      • Sherbet

        It depends on how he’s holding the pen.

        • Mockingbird

          In his teeth while his hands are otherwise occupied ! Shoop at your own risk !

          • Sherbet

            Why was I cursed with a vivid imagination!

            • Mockingbird

              Ha ha ! You can use it for good at other times !

        • After all, the pen is mightier than the . . . well, you know.

          • Sherbet

            In Ron’s case, there wasn’t a whole lot of “mighty” going on, by his own admission.

      • Missionary Kid

        My wisecrack would be that someone that wrote like that might have a low tolerance for sex, and thus was easily impaired.

        • There is a whole mythology of men being “drained” by ejaculating that is mostly vitalistic nonsense and misogyny. No sex before a game. No sex before arguing a case in court. Before a big test. There are whole religions that accuse women of taking men’s “power” through sex, or even just being near them on their periods. In my new age nutter days I did a lot of Tantric workshops and they were obsessed with the non-ejaculatory orgasm, since you were losing “precious bodily fluids” to quote one of my favorite movies. It’s still a thing. It’s a wrong thing with no basis in medicine, but old myths die hard. NPI.

          • Mockingbird

            You had to say die hard !!?

          • Bunker Buggy Betsy

            Good grief! I thought Tantric movement would have a healthier idea about sexuality than most religions, where “procreation not recreation” is the mantra. Another one bites the dust. Thx.

          • Missionary Kid

            OK, this gets personal, and I’ve never practiced anything Tantric, but I have experienced non-ejaculatory orgasms. Until then, I thought that they were interconnected.

            Probably because of that, IMO, the whole connection between male ejaculation and orgasm, is mythology, and is perpetuated by the porn industry.

          • Robert Eckert
          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            heh

            • Rasha

              First thing I thought of!!! XD

          • ze moo

            I have a 1912 edition of the Boy Scout Manual. I warns against masturbation because it takes 4 drops of blood to make one drop of spooge. One could bleed to death by too much masturbation. Giggle……

            • Doc M

              Yup.. gimme that ol’ time religion

            • Sherbet

              No! That’s hilarious.

            • I need a transfusion ASAP.

          • Doc M

            There is a great scene in “Raging Bull” where De Niro is getting very turned on by his wife, while in training for a fight, rushes into the bathroom (or kitchen, I forget), and dumps ice and or water into his underwear.

            • One Human

              I was thinking of “Bull Durham”.

      • Juicer77

        *snort*

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        giggedy.

    • Dice

      I think he had it coming: “I have a very bad masturbatory history. I was taught when I was 11 and,
      despite guilt, fear of insanity, etc. etc.”

      It’s Epic: http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/psychiatrist-evaluates-hubbard-admissions.htm

  • ithilien

    Who taught hubbard hypnotism? He is described as demonstrating his skill at science fiction meetings in LA after the war. But no mention has ever been made as far as i can find, about who or where he learned this. It seems to have become well known about him only after the war. Was he actually a skilled hypnotist, or was it like everything, a hoax? He never met Crowley ( who did not use hypnotism ) and Parsons didnt either. In any event, he using it before he was associated with either. Was he using or attempting to use mind control on others before the war? Perhaps he thought he would evolve into a stage hypnotist. And make a million that way. How did he learn how to incorporate hypnotism into scientology indoctrination? Who taught him?

    Edited to fix spelling!!

    • Mockingbird

      He read many books from the twenties and thirties. I have read Hypnotism Comes Of Age which Hubbard recommended. He also recommended several other books very, very early in Dianetics. I have examined hypnotic techniques from many sources and sometimes Hubbard didn’t even change them at all. He stole Guided Image Therapy from Volney Mathison, who wrote books of his own and warned against hypnotism disguised as genuine memories.

      The methods used in Dianetics were stolen from abreactive therapy and those were around long before Dianetics and found to produce dependence on the therapist without benefit and abandoned by ethical therapists. The TRs and study tech also are hypnotic.

    • Missionary Kid

      I know that your misspelling was inadvertent, but I love the word “hyponotism.”

      It fits with Hubbard, who would take something from somewhere else, change the terminology, and claim it was his invention. I can envision him taking “hypnotism” and renaming it “hyponotism.”

      • Rasha

        Hypnetics: The Modern Science of Making the Suggestible More Suggestible.

        • Missionary Kid

          ~Snickersnort~ Excellent.

        • Mark Foster

          Hyp-knot-ism…Tying up your mind in knots whilst draining your bank account

          • Hypnonotism – Definitely not hypnotism!

          • Sherbet

            Also known as “Slip-knot-ism.”

      • ithilien

        Lol! I had to turn off auto correct because it was running rampant. But yes i agree, too funny. Or he would have had an acronym for it.
        When you stand back and look at his entire life, the rise and fall, its astounding. The thing i thought intriguing was his constant movement across country. There was a rootlessness to his family and his life. Two things i still think are hidden, id love to dig up. One is violence. There are many signs of knife aggression in his handwriting and dianetics. I cant believe with someone as indulgent as him he never perpetrated direct violence.

        • Missionary Kid

          It’s my opinion that he was a sadist. On the other hand he was too chicken s*** to actually do something himself so, he did it indirectly, as befits a passive aggressive person like he was. I think that he didn’t want to lower himself to actually do something himself.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Once more Can’t Help Myself

    The teenager has a new gig. After After Earth.

    • Bunker Buggy Betsy

      How crazy all of that is! Another job for a woman, done by a man.

      I guess Vuitton is firmly in Camp Crazy. Incredible what passes for deep in that artificial world. Whatever.

      I hereby boycott Louis Vuitton…which means absolutely nothing. “0 from 0 be 0”
      Oh, no, I think I just did a Jaden!

      • Kim O’Brien

        so ..i went to the LV website for the ready to wear women’s line . It takes four clicks to get to the fact that …with this outfit ..the shirt is $2,350 and the skirt is $3,000 . For just a meager $5,350 …..seems totally reasonable . I mean , if your daughter AND your son wear it ..it is a bargain !

        • chukicita

          no sarongs, i’m sure.

        • Didn’t the original LV make really good (often bespoke) luggage? How did his company turn into a purveyor of ludicrously overpriced rags?

        • Bunker Buggy Betsy

          Could buy the whole thrift store for that, and donate the clothes to needy people. Wow! And people buy this shite!!!!

          If I had $5k to throw around, there would be set of fine ukes in my clutches and I’d still have cash for charity!!!

    • Kim O’Brien

      this reminds me of that artist/marketing guy who took trash ..literal trash …in NYC ..crumpled it ..put it in a plastic cube ..called it art ..and made a bundle . He also made a pretty good point . Now perfectly illustrated by Jaden Smith .

    • JaxNGold

      He totally looks like Milli Vanilli.

  • “Pip-squeak Prometheus.” Golden. Simply golden.

  • seriouslyWTF

    More sad news. Glen Frey from the Eagles passed away.
    Glenn Frey had been in hospital since November, two months before his death aged 67.

    The Eagles co-founder’s family confirmed Frey died from complications due to rheumatoid arthritis, acute ulcerative colitis and pneumonia on Monday, sparking a wave of tributes from fans of the Grammy-award winning group.

  • chukicita

    I haven’t seen anyone do a traffic report for awhile – looks like the Bunker is expanding faster than Scn can shrink: (f5)

    • Bunker Buggy Betsy

      Nice!!!!

    • Mockingbird

      Wow ! That means most visitors never comment ! I wish more folks would.

      • Dice

        They don’t have the time (4:18 min) average See: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/http%3A%2F%2Ftonyortega.org
        notice how many are lurking from work

      • studentsfirst

        I lurk from work and home, but rarely post. I’m here post the HBO documentary Going Clear…The Underground Bunker is a truly fascinating place: an old school ethical, take no BS investigative reporter, intelligent & funny posters, evil organization masquerading as a religious institution, compelling stories. I usually post when I get worked up over some comment or slight to one of the bunkeroos here.

        • Mockingbird

          Thanks. I spent twenty five years in Scientology and have been out the last two.

          I can’t imagine trying to learn about it in depth without being in. The true stories are so surreal and extreme. The extent of the abuse and mind control is something I would never have believed or fathomed if I wasn’t deep, deep in.

    • Amy Forsythe

      Hey Dave, time to hire some more clickers.

      • Mark Foster

        Amy, sorry, he´s busy bitch-slapping some Sea Org slave who is sweeping up the broken Macallans bottles…

    • Rasha

      ummm….. how big is our sofa?

    • JaxNGold

      Excellent!!

    • Dice

      who has access to the DISQUS stats i saw last year? was it Scott Pilutik ?

      • Robert Eckert

        Johnny Tank used to grab charts off the alexa.com website

        • chukicita

          Yes, he did! I used to enjoy those. Johnny must be busy these days.

          • Dice

            yes and i found what i was looking fore F5

          • Robert Eckert

            Johnny comes through to upvote fairly often.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Thank you for remembering my daily Alexa updates 🙂

              I did this for a whole year from Oct. 2013 to Oct. 2014. The objective was to show the difference in traffic of the website of the “fastest growing religion in the guh-laxy” compared to a (then) unemployed SP blogger on the fringes of the internet. The point was thoroughly proven every single day of that year, as Tony was WAY ahead of Cap’n Slappy on both US and world rankings. I felt that after a year of reporting these stats that there was no more point to prove, and since I stopped the daily reports the results are still the same (I still check Alexa every once in a while).

    • Rasha

      Unless I missed them, there really haven’t been many trolls of late. I am hoping that many of those thousands of silent visitors are UTRs and recent escapees. There’s always free caek at the Bunker!

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        For sure, and beer, and wine, and popcorn!

  • FOTF2012

    Question: It was stated that Hubbard lost the name Dianetics in bankruptcy. How did he come to get it back for use in “Dianetics and Scientology”?

    Van Vogt’s book “The Violent Man” is now on my “to read” list. Some excerpts fit Hubbard to a T. They also describe the “great” monotheist gods to a T — El, Al, Allah, YHWH/Jehovah, etc. It is easy to see how Van Vogt would tell someone to read “The Violent Man” if he wanted to understand Hubbard. It also indicates that Van Vogt saw through Hubbard and saw his true nature. (The following excerpts are from http://phinnweb.blogspot.com/2004/10/right-man-and-fear-of-losing-face.html.)

    “In 1954, Van Vogt began work on a war novel called The Violent Man, which was set in a Chinese prison camp. The commandant of the camp is one of those savagely authoritarian figures who would instantly, and without hesitation, order the execution of anyone who challenges his authority. Van Vogt was creating the type from observation of men like Hitler and Stalin. And, as he thought about the murderous behaviour of the commandant, he found himself wondering: ‘What could motivate a man like that?’ Why is it that some men believe that anyone who contradicts them is either dishonest or downright wicked? Do they really believe, in their heart of hearts, that they are gods who are incapable of being fallible? If so are, are they in some sense insane, like a man who thinks he is Julius Caesar?”

    and

    “… ‘the violent man’ or the ‘Right Man’ […] is a man driven by a manic need for self-esteem — to feel he is a ‘somebody’. He is obsessed by the question of ‘losing face’, so will never, under any circumstances, admit that he might be in the wrong.”

    and

    “Equally interesting is the wild, insane jealousy. Most of us are subject to jealousy, since the notion that someone we care about prefers someone else is an assault on our amour propre. But the Right Man, whose self-esteem is like a constantly festering sore spot, fliers into a frenzy at the thought, and becomes capable of murder.”

    and

    “Van Vogt points out that the Right Man is an ‘idealist’ — that is, he lives in his own mental world and does his best to ignore aspects of reality that conflict with it. Like the Communists’ rewriting of history, reality can always be ‘adjusted’ later to fit his glorified picture of himself. In his mental world, women are delightful, adoring, faithful creatures who wait patiently for the right man — in both senses of the word — before they surrender their virginity. He is living in a world of adolescent fantasy …”

    • Tony Ortega

      Purcell gave the name back to Hubbard after getting tired of fighting with him over the issues in the bankruptcy. So then Hubbard had to reconcile Dianetics with Scientology, which is how we get the astounding things like the Genetic Entity and other hilarious fixes.

      • Dice

        gee.. that make a lot of sense (now) to me, connecting the dots. I knew the parts but did not see this with the GE. tnx

        • MaxSpaceman

          Scientol Oh, Gee!

          Yo, Genetic Entity?

          The fugg-ouddah here

          • Mark Foster

            Max, here´s a little ditty for you…with a shout-out to Chuck Beatty for the term “soul astornaut” :

            I’m a soul astronaut
            Grinning, glib ron-bot
            Got my gold-plated e-meter
            Whole track fortune reader
            SP’s quiver
            Wogs shiver
            When I unleash my theta powers
            Like a torrential Golden Shower

            9 volts and tin-can galvanic woo
            Plus a sciency word-salad make a mind-fuck stew
            Trademarks and copyrights seal the deal
            Yes, eternity is a commodity, for real!

            • Sherbet

              That’s beautiful, Mark.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I distinctly remember my first encounter with The Genetic Entity, located somewhere around the stomach area. Naturally. As I was reading all about this factually scientific creepy character, my innards started growling at full volume and I felt something rolling around all up in there.

        Hilarious now, but at the time it freaked me the hell out and I leapt straight out of my chair in a panic. Who said cognitive dissonance is easy.

        http://i.imgur.com/zhDKZ3A.jpg

        • Tony Ortega

          It’s one of my favorite little things in Scientology. In Dianetics, Hubbard had insisted that your current problems could all be sourced back to traumas you experienced in your mother’s womb as a fetus, a zygote, even as egg or sperm. But then he lost the use of “Dianetics” in a disastrous year, regrouped, and came up with Scientology, now saying that to REALLY solve your current problems, you have to go back to past lives. Because it turns out you’re a “thetan” who has lived countless times, and you jumped into your current body just as it was being born.

          But hang on. If your thetan wasn’t in your current body until birth, what happened to all of those traumatic incidents in the womb that “Dianetics” was all about? Does that make Hubbard’s 1950 masterpiece all a bunch of bullshit?

          Oh, no! You see, there was this “genetic entity” that was present in your meat body before the thetan arrived, etc etc.

          The bad stitch job between Dianetics and Scientology is really hilarious to me, and it’s amazing that the Hubbardites swallow it whole.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            The truth is, most people never read Dianetics. Most couldn’t get past the introduction. And the explanation I got 99% of the time when I asked a WTF question was:

            It was research and it evolved. My excuse, and I’m sticking to it, was former untreated PTSD. But I have to say the OT levels are nothing compared to the WTF’s you mentally have to hurdle over long before you get there.

          • Scientology: Reconning before retconning was cool.

        • chukicita

          You sure it wasn’t just some gas?

          Avocado maduro, pedo seguro, you know?

      • This is important info. Thanks, Tony. Another piece of a puzzle.

    • Robert Eckert

      Don Purcell gave Hubbard back the copyrights on Dianetics and the associated materials (for a nominal $1 I think) after he got tired of litigating.

      • Rasha

        I wonder, is that when he worked out how to use the legal system for wearing down an opponent, or is it an early instance of the concept he already had in mind?

        • Hubbard was also using the Fair Game routine on Purcell, even if it didn’t have a name yet. He had the membership list and the Dianetics printing plates (I think) stolen, probably all the other dirty tricks that were refined later.

          • daisy

            Even criminals have a learning curve.

            • I think that Dianetics was exactly that for Hubbard – he made a lot of mistakes in its formulation which led to its failure – however, that failure forced him to modify his ideas and try again while he still had sufficient adherents to make Scientology fly. https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/11/01/what-did-l-ron-hubbard-learn-from-the-failure-of-dianetics/

              When he recovered the rights to the name “dianetics, Hubbard had to fudge the contradictions between old and new – but nobody ever joined Scientology because they were impressed by its intellectual consistency.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I got the impression from Miller’s “Barefaced Messiah” that Hubbard as a little lad learned at his mother and aunts’ doting feet to wail and shriek until he got what he wanted. He certainly manipulated his way through school to avoid learning or his learning problems.

      • FOTF2012

        Thanks!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You know what really cracks me up given the paranoia and demonizing of pscyhs as the root of all mankinds troubles? Dianetics, the original Book 1 co audit parties fad, was just Hubbard’s rip off of what has been termed “Freudian parties” of the 20’s. The wealthy Americans were evidently flocking to Vienna, but those of more modest means were having these do-it-yourself psychoanalysis parties. I’m telling you, the world was uncivilized before cable TV. And Freud became popular because of the sex strangling era of Victorian strictness, which Hubbard grew up with in his formative years. Can’t say I blame them – you can only so long without sex or booze parties.

      Evidently that wasn’t enough for Hubbard though or it wasn’t working. He needed to get his God Complex on too. Asimov seems to have noticed.

  • Dave Reams

    In his memoire “Palipmsest”, Gore Vidal alludes to fighting off a thinly disguised L. Ron Hubbard who attempted to rape him in the back coat room of wharf front Seattle bar (the Pioneer? or Olympic?) while both were on leave from their respective ships during WW2.

    • TonyOrtega

      This is one of those apocryphal tales that has been passed around for years and years which was apparently “too good to check.”

      Vidal was in Seattle in the summer of 1943, a 17-year-old on his way to the Aleutian Islands. He described meeting a 25-year-old Merchant Marine and going to a hotel with him.

      At the time, 32-year-old Navy lieutenant L. Ron Hubbard was sailing the PC-815 down the coast from Oregon to shell a Mexican island.

      Also, knowing Vidal, there’s no way he wouldn’t have made it more plain, writing a book, Palimpsest, that came out in 1995, that his attacker was Hubbard if it had been. (By then Hubbard was long dead, after all.) But it wasn’t.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Your brain amazes me.

      • Lionel Drinkwater

        If Vidal had been PDH’d and installed with implants to forget then this would explain his inability to clearly remember.

      • Mark

        Besides which, trout-mouthed ginger-pubed fuglies weren’t Vidal’s type.

        • daisy

          I cannot imagine that he was anybody*s type. His mom had to tie a beef roast around his neck to get the neighborhood dogs to play with them.

          • Mark

            Beef? Condemned scrag end of mutton, surely.

            • daisy

              Yeah no wasting perfectly good meat.

        • Ella Raitch

          laugh-out-loud

      • Dave Reams

        Maybe it was Christopher Hitchens in a Tijuana bar then instead of Vidal? : )

  • Kim O’Brien

    anyone else trying to get in shape and using HowdyCon as the goal ..??…..or am i just an asshole ?

    • Robert Eckert

      the two are not mutually exclusive <3

      • Kim O’Brien

        fair enough 😉

    • Juicer77

      I’m not attending but I’ll join the support group!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      It may have been one of the reasons I used to convince myself to join the gym in november.

    • JaxNGold

      Too funny!

    • Vaquera

      I don’t think I’m an asshole, just incredibly vain.

      • ze moo

        No one ever does……

    • why does someone have to be in shape? come as you are!! 🙂

    • Nat-leficent

      Totes.

    • daisy

      I would be, if I were coming. I will in support of Howdycon. I would hire a pretty young thing to go in my place and tell her what to say, like that literary character with the long nose. ( not sure how to google it ).

      • Nat-leficent

        Crazy Daisy.

      • Vaquera

        Cyrano de Bergerac

      • I am Cyrano de Bergerac – I’ve written a number of (quite successful) dating site profiles for friends. Not bad with a (Japanese) sword, either. Don’t have a big hooter, though…

        • daisy

          Thanks to you and Vanquera, I knew someone would come to my rescue. When the English use cute names like hooters, crass Canadians think you are talking about different body parts all together. That Japanese sword thing probably of more use than one would think.

          • The sword thing (Iaido) is less useful than you think – at my (modest) level you stick with a aluminium blade with no edge.

            Upon reflection, I should probably have remebered the cosmopolitan nature of this place and wirtten conk, instead of hooter (or does conk have a different meaning in Canada?).

            • daisy

              Never heard the word but again my first thought didn’t run to nose. Doesn’t really matter if sword not useful, it still looks cool.

            • Graham

              OB, you’ve been listening to too many Tony Hancock re-runs!

            • I was more of a follower of the Goon Show – but came from West Hartlepool at a time when those words were current.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Pinocchio!

  • JSkool101

    Isaac Asimov wrote “The Sensuous Dirty Old Man,” as “Dr. A,” among the quotes is, “Sex is dirty if you do it right.”

    • should note that post has the new book planned by Jamie De Wolf which doesn’t seem to be posted here yet

      pic

      • nottrue

        I like but….Finish what Tony Ortega started is what it should say

        • JanInThePan

          Wow! If this is real..this might be enough to put a stake into Sci’s bloody non existent heart.

      • Tony Ortega

        Not a book.

        • Nat-leficent

          Spoken word album?

          • flyonthewall

            the screengrab says “Jamie DeWolf tells Radar that he’s been secretly filming his own expose’ for months…” So sounds like a video movie film

            • Jimmy3

              Ahhh, an expose. Might be out in about 6 months, depending on the judge.

            • Nat-leficent

              *under breath* fly and his fancy “reading”

        • Radar got wrong?…. bloody hell!

          edit… actually I did… been a long day

          • Tony Ortega

            Radar didn’t say it was a book. Said he was ‘filming an expose.’

            • I realised after I posted and added an edit

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    I don’t know how many of you saw that one of Captain Howdy’s friends was commenting on another thread. I thought everyone would like to see this response I got about HowdyCon. (F5)
    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/theundergrondbunker/friday_10/#comment-2466409441

    • JaxNGold

      What a great post from his friend. Wow, I haven’t thought of The Cramps since my punk rock days.

      I so wish I could make it to HowdyCon and meet you guys. Unfortunately, with a 3-year old, I can’t make it happen. Hubby works six days a week and my parents will be in Tahoe. Such a bummer.

    • Thank you for posting this!!

  • Hamtaro

    There once was a fellow named Ron
    He devised a very long con
    Then DM took his rank
    Put billions in the bank
    Now DM just needs to be gone

    • Mark Foster

      There once was a wanker named Lafayette
      Who shot down a Farsecian jet
      He strapped it on tight
      And caused such a fright
      That even Putin said, “Nyet!”

      Ohhhhhkaaaay, good night…

  • chukicita

    The desperation ensues. i would love to know what ‘half a dozen educational institutions’ sent their ‘religious students’ to a new prop office in an empty stripmall storefront downtown Clearwater to ‘research Scientology.’

    “CLEARWATER, Fla., Jan. 19, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — The Church of Scientology invites religious studies students and teachers to come to the Scientology Information Center in downtown Clearwater and research Scientology there. According to the Scientology Information Center’s manager Amber Skjelset, religious students from half a dozen educational institutions have visited the Scientology Information Center to research Scientology since its opening in July 2015 to their benefit.

    The manager said that students have been coming from as far away as Russia and the United Kingdom and have joined over 6,500 people from 20 different countries to find out about Scientology at the Information Center…”

    Read more at http://www.econotimes.com/The-Scientology-Information-Center-Welcomes-Religious-Studies-Classes-to-Find-Out-About-Scientology-145941#LIflT0EOv3bk6cpw.99

    • Amy Forsythe

      They were researching cults.

    • ze moo

      New clam slaves have to do that. If you go in and ask ‘Where’s Shelly?” will you get an answer or a kick in the ass?

    • One Human

      Gee, will Professor Asshat conduct a lecture?

      • One Human

        (F5)

        • One Human

          Now:

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Let me take a guess – Delphi Academy, Applied Scholastic, Greenfield Schools, etceterah etceterah.

      I’ve mentioned before you can quantify how desperate by how exaggerated their “stats” are.

      Also, I read that first line as “empty spiritual storefront”. Hey, maybe I can cancel my new eyeglasses after all.

      • chukicita

        i like ’empty spiritual storefront’ better. 😀

  • daytoncapri

    Thanks for this article Tony. This strange combination of absurdity, mutant solipsism and evil is a marvel to behold.

  • Observer

    Uh-oh, it looks like Tom Cruise isn’t the only one who can help out at the scene of a car wreck after all!

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jamie-foxx-saved-motorist-inferno-n499666

    • scientology recruitment of jamie starts in 3, 2…..

      • Observer

        This story is even better if the rumors about Katie Holmes and Jamie Foxx are true. Quite a blow to Big Being #3’s ego.

        • oh yes!!! didn’t think of that right away!! a TRUE hero!! not a manufactured one!

          you know what i think of sometimes re: katie? her allegedly marathon run….remember that?? there was a period of time during the race she wasn’t seen, then that night she was out with tc wearing heels…..had to have been some co$ mind trick “you can run a marathon!!” then of course they fake it….she was never really seen jogging/running after that either….

        • Nat-leficent

          I hope she sees it as a RED FLAG to run away again

          • Observer

            I don’t know much about JF so have no context for this.

        • cara

          Katie denied it on her insta, but deleted it because it didn’t have the link.

          Edit: I noticed something interesting is that this is the first time she addresses a rumor about Tom Cruise personally

    • Jimmy3

      Jamie Foxx is easily my favorite Scientologist.

    • Nat-leficent

      Was about to post this too just now XD
      What’s up with Katie Holmes’ taste in men?

      • Jimmy3

        Is there something wrong with Foxxkat?

        • Nat-leficent

          That name . . . for starters XD

          • Jimmy3

            That name is dope. It’s two animals. See?

            • Nat-leficent

              Perhaps I’m just jealous of the “coolness” of the name?

            • Jimmy3

              Sounds like you’re jealous that it’s not Foxxnat.

            • Nat-leficent

              I like that.

            • Jimmy3

              Me too. If we ever hooked up, we’d be Jimmy Foxx. I like that, too.

            • Nat-leficent
            • Kestrel

              JimJam

            • Jimmy3

              Unfortunately, people already call me that. Jimmy Jam or Jim Jam or Jim Jammy. I will destroy them soon, don’t worry.

            • Kestrel

              Foxx3

            • Nat-leficent

              Foxxy3? Nah.
              😉

      • It’s getting better?

  • nottrue
    • Nat-leficent

      Where from? Twitter? FB?

    • Jimmy3

      WHO?

    • This will not end well.

    • is he one of the writer’s who went there to write about them? his name is familiar…..

      • Jimmy3

        Who?

        • flyonthewall

          are you an owl today?

          • Jimmy3

            Dammit, fly. I was counting on you to be the only person who’d get the “Who? Mike Jones! Who who? Mike Jones!” joke.

            • flyonthewall

              *sigh* I have failed you Master

            • Jimmy3

              Mike Jones was a genius, a poet and a visionary. Check out these lyrics:
              “Back then hoes didn’t want me,
              Now I’m hot, hoes all on me.”

              It’s like Shakespeare reincarnated as a rapper.

            • Nat-leficent

              Um . . .

            • Jimmy3

              It’s okay. Right now I’m cold, and hoes don’t want me. I understand. But pretty soon I’ll warm up, and when I’m hot, hoes all on me.

            • Nat-leficent

              I’m not gonna say anything right now.

            • flyonthewall

              oh ok, i just googled him and he’s the one who use to be a big ole fat guy? So I guess he’s like the gangsta rapper version of Oprah or something?

            • Jimmy3

              I dunno who you’re talking about.

            • flyonthewall

              let’s just pretend this whole thread never happened

            • Jimmy3

              There’s a missing person, and you’re going on about a one hit wonder rapper from 15 years ago. And without even explaining WHO you’re talking about. So yes, let’s forget this thread, or whatever it is.

            • flyonthewall

              i still love you and want to touch your face

            • Jimmy3

              I still love you and want to feel your wings’ embrace.

            • Nat-leficent
            • Nat-leficent

              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

            • Nat-leficent

              Oh, shiznit — watch out for the lightsaber/flyswatter!
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-KPDvIDP5s

            • flyonthewall

              If the Master strikes me down I will not resist.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      How sad. I feel badly for him and his parents.

    • that’s an ATT cell #—did a reverse # search…..LA based….

    • Nat-leficent

      Might be a publicity stunt.

      • Nat-leficent

        That guy looks too old for his parents to care about him XD
        Edited for being an asshole

        • flyonthewall

          LOL!!

          • Nat-leficent

            Crow’s feet = parents no longer up in your shiznit
            Edited for being an asshole

        • daisy

          The edit made me giggle I need to have that disclaimer on all my posts

    • Nat-leficent

      Okay, I’m strongly leaning toward publicity stunt or “performance art” at this point. What parents (at least in their 60s) use instagram?

      • Jimmy3

        Maybe they put up the flyers, and someone else saw it and put it on Instagram?

      • i think the instagram poster just took a pix of the flyer and isn’t related to them–i am assuming that from the photo on instragram….

        but i couldn’t find any info online about someone with that name being missing, the # didn’t come up in google—as it would if there was an active search, etc…..

        • flyonthewall

          so who’s going to call the number?

          • Nat-leficent

            I nom nom nominate YOU

            • flyonthewall

              Let’s make it fair. Whoever can build the best Lego creation doesn’t have to call.

            • Nat-leficent

              doh.

          • not i!!

            • flyonthewall

              make Edward do it. He’s a disinterested 3rd party and a good patsy

            • he’s at work right now, won’t get home til way later….

          • Jimmy3

            I was going to call them up and say, “Hey I saw your flyer…. Who are you looking for again?”

            “Mike Jones, he’s—”

            “WHO????”

            “…Mike… Jones…”

            “WHO? WHO???”

            • Nat-leficent

              Okay, you should definitely NOT call

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              If you call it, I will answer.

            • Jimmy3

              Oh shit. For real?

            • flyonthewall

              I’m really sorry Sid

          • Nat-leficent

            Tony O!

            • flyonthewall

              Yes, this is Tony O, is Internet Hoax there? No? Ok, can I leave a message for Mr. Hoax?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Geez Louise. 60 is not ancient, you know! LOL But I understand. I remember when 60 Seemed ancient too.

        • Nat-leficent

          I don’t even use instagram! Hectic.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            What did you say? I can’t hear you over the noise from this damn telex machine!

            • Nat-leficent

              Lol

            • Sherbet

              She said we’re old. That’s what she said.

            • Nat-leficent

              NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

            • Sherbet

              Have you ever been kicked by a gray-haired person with orthopedic oxfords on?

            • Nat-leficent

              Yes, but I won’t go into detail here.

      • Vaquera

        My dad is north of 80 and uses it.

        • Nat-leficent

          Remarkable.

        • Acherontia

          Meanwhile, my mum is mid fifties and I have to show her how to copy paste something at least once every three months

    • SucculentDuck

      image search shows no other record of this online and there are no other matching missing persons reports in the area. common name but the guy looks familiar to me and some of the people I’ve shown. will put the feelers out and will let y’all know if anything turns up, but for now, I’m leaning toward agreeing w/ Nat-leficent and it being shenanigans.

      *** Edit: spoke to Sid, definitely not shenanigans ***

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      That is our poster. You are welcome to call and say hello.

      • Nat-leficent

        Really Sid???!! Sorry for thinking it wasn’t real 🙁
        *ashamed face*

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          There is nothing you could do that would make me love you less. No worries Nat.

          • Nat-leficent

            Awww. Thanks Sid. The way you and your wife suffer is incomprehensible to me. I’m so sorry.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Crying now.

      • Observer

        🙁

      • nottrue

        I will keep my eyes open looking for him. I am printing some to pass around and to keep in my car. I will tell them just to ask him to call his mom

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          If you see him just tell him to call his mother.

      • SucculentDuck

        i will call you in a minute. to avoid wasting all of our time:
        a) is this a legit poster and Mike, your son, is missing?
        b) this is your poster but is not an emergency situation?

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          It is our poster. I can’t say too much about the urgency right now here as is medical but will add more info later.

      • Kay

        I’m so sorry Sid, that is just awful.

      • Mockingbird

        Do you want to put this in the SP and anticult groups on Facebook ? There are a bunch of them.

        • Do it!!! Spread this!!!!

          • Mockingbird

            Well, it is Sid’s personal information. I don’t want be speaking out of turn.

            • i can understand that; but it’s on instragram and now it’s spreading on twitter and it’s on reddit—from my tweet so spread far and wide especially in SP FB groups!!

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          No limits.

          • Mockingbird

            Okay, I can post it tonight.

      • ReallyMGM

        I am so sorry Sid. I hope you hear something soon.

      • beauty for ashes

        I can’t tell you how much I love you guys for doing this. This is everything a parent should be. <3 <3 <3

  • Frodis73

    In honor of David Bowie the folks at Honest Trailers did Labyrinth…and it’s funny as hell.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjobWguWIRk

    • Sherbet

      Jennifer Connolly — Captain Howdy’s fantasy woman.

      • stillgrace2

        it was the eyebrows, ya know.

      • Ella Raitch

        Those eyebrows!

    • Acherontia

      HAHA! The Maze Runner! That plot made even less sense than Labyrinth.

      Oh, Bowie.

    • BlueHeronBay

      Recently learned that Gates McFadden (Dr. Beverly Crusher) choreographed “Labyrinth.” Little behind the scenes video here:

      http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/51882/gates-mcfadden-dr-crusher-choreographed-labyrinth

      • ze moo

        Gates and Bret Spiner (mr data) are old Broadway song and dancer types.

        • BlueHeronBay

          There’s a clip of Beverly and Data dancing in the above link also. Great stuff.

      • beauty for ashes

        What!!!!??? best fun fact of the day!!!

  • exccla

    I met harlen ellison in 1980 (approx. date), at a lrh writers event. We talked about him at length and ellison did tell me that lrh did say he invented scn for the money. I feel that statement was true because so many say that and ellison was sure too. They had been friends.

  • ithilien

    Make a vertical line down hubbards face in the picture posted above. Compare both sides.

  • Liberated

    Sarah Palin just endorsed Donald Trump—–we can all rest easy now!

    • Observer

    • i thought she already had? what took her so long? she had to wait til there was a lull in the google alerts about her or her family?

      • Betty

        No she is trying to deflect about her son Track.

      • ze moo

        She was mad the Kardashians were getting more press time.

    • kemist

      Maybe he makes her feel smart.

    • Acherontia

      As my mother once said, “I hope Donald Trump decides to take on the Church of Scientology. Then they can just destroy each other!”

      We can only hope.

      • Liberated

        Your Mother is wise.

      • Mockingbird

        A fantasy to dream of. Miscavige and Scientology both annihilated in a death match ! Miscavige and Trump end up penniless in prison and all their assets are seized and used to compensate their victims.

        • Acherontia

          Well I think Trump was endorsed by Palin today, so I mean that’s like one step closer to the seals being opened and gates to hell opening. Just add Miscavige and maybe Anne Coulter and the ritual will be complete!

          (My worst nightmare behind any sort of pandemic is a Trump/Coulter ticket)

          • Mockingbird

            Trump/Miscavige

          • beauty for ashes

            That’s scarier than flesh eating bacteria!

    • Betty

      Yes and her son Track just got arrested last night. Several charges all on Gawker.

      • Liberated

        Yeah, ” The nit-wit on ice” is trying to deflect from her equally stupid, nit-wit kids. That’s a full time job right there. I had hoped she would disappear into obscurity—but not to be.

    • Kim O’Brien

      so…Sarah Palin endorsed Trump …who only gave 1 donation after 9/11…and it was to Scientology and it’s ” detox” program ..for a mere $1,000

      I am thinking that there just MIGHT be a god of irony ….and Skip is cursing them right now LOL

      ( i know ..i am going to hell )

      • Mockingbird

        Trump has been investigated by reporters and there are stories of him donating a tiny, tiny percentage of his wealth to charity. A pittance really. But he claims to be a great guy. Just ask him.

    • Doc M

      As if Sara Palin has any political relevance. (Or any relevance at all for that matter) Her only job is being an opportunist on the lecture circuit and raking in the money.

    • Observer

      I bet she’s angling for the running mate position

    • Robert Eckert

      Meanwhile her eldest has been arrested for pulling a gun out during a drunken brawl:

      http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/01/19/drunken-brawl-track-palin-charged-with-weapons-and-assault-charges/

  • nottrue
    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Was this taken from the longer video of Jason Beghe, Tony and the NY Anons?

      • Frodis73

        I’m not sure, the publish date is today though.

  • Jimmy3

    I just talked to Sid. Those flyers are legit. They put them up looking to reconnect with their son, who is apparently being hidden away at the CC building. Maybe some social media push would help put pressure on them.

    Sorry again for making stupid jokes about it. I do care.

    • Nat-leficent

      That’s it. I quit comedy forever.

      • daisy

        Sid has a good sense of humor. I am sure he realizes all of us meant no harm. It is sad to remember people we love here are continuing to be hurt by this criminal organization. I hope someone knows or has seen his son.

        • Nat-leficent

          Okay, but I quit for at least a few hours!

      • noseinabk

        We are a jaded bunch sometimes. I searched the net for more info on it last night and dismissed it when I couldnt find anything.

    • flyonthewall

      Yeah I don’t know whats wrong with me, I couldn’t feel worse. I don’t know what to say except I’m very sorry and ashamed of myself

    • Kay

      I hate this cherch, truly. This makes me ill.

      • Mockingbird

        That’s the healthy reaction.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      You guys are all my friends. There is no ‘sorry’ ever needed.

      • Sherbet

        He’s a handsome young man, Sid. I hate that damn fake church.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          He gets that from his mother’s side.

          • Sherbet

            🙂 Modest.

        • Mockingbird

          Here’s how Scientology helps build strong families – by tearing them apart !

          • Sherbet

            So much BS. Lies and misery.

            • Mockingbird

              The total freedom Hubbard gives is misery and absolute slavery !

      • Kim O’Brien

        …oh Sid

      • Juicer77

        Saying some prayers…
        He has kind eyes.

      • Cars

        Is there something we can do to help you locate him or get leads? Do you want this poster circulated to a wider audience? I’m so sorry it’s come to this. I can’t begin to imagine what you are going through.

        • I’m tweeting it directly to some former sci’s asking if they’ll share it…..

          • flyonthewall

            I FB’d Lynn Campbell who has the beauty salon right near PAC and asked her to put it in her window or have some in her shop etc

            • excellent!! I tweeted it to Nora Crest, who said she knew him when she was in, but that was years ago, also tweeted it to Tory asking if she’d help spread it.

            • flyonthewall

              Karen and Jeff should be alerted too if anyone is FB friends with them

            • i’ll tweet karen….the scientology reddit twitter retweeted me and they put it up on their reddit board….
              https://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/

            • flyonthewall

              i just did

              eta – tweeted karen that is

            • i’ve tweeted it to others asking for RTs, I’m getting retweets already—i think from the reddit tweet…..

            • Observer

              Does CC have a Twitter account? I think they should get it too.

            • they did, can’t find it now just the ‘@scientology’ one….tweeting it to scientology, krustie, cruise, etc….tweeting it again and again to whomever i can think of!!

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              That is a very good idea.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Thanks Miss Tia, I retweeted your tweets also.

            • Thanks!! I’ve tweeted a lot….hopefully they’ll build up momentum…..

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          The media?

          • Cars

            Only with Sid’s approval. I’m worried if there’s too much attention, they will move his son out of the area to keep him hidden, or worse…

            What we need is Tony’s contact list!

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Well it is pretty out there. I filed a report with Adult Protective Services.

            • Cars

              Thanks! Keeping fingers crossed Sid or Mrs. Sid hears something soon.

      • Well you said it’s not needed; but I’m sorry too. I’ll share it on instagram and on twitter.

      • SucculentDuck

        thanks for chatting w/ me, Sid. if you ever need someone in L.A. just flash the Duck Signal (or reply to any one of my comments … that might be easier and faster) and I’m on it.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          I appreciate the call, and thanks very much for your kindness and support.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Oh Sid I am so sorry.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Adult Protective Services is https://fw4.harmonyis.net/LACSSLiveintake/ and I filed a report with them – perhaps you could do this also Sid?

      • SucculentDuck

        (818) 212-9076
        clisee13@gmail.com

        this message will self-destruct

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          got it thanks.

    • Acherontia

      I can see how people would mistake it for a joke/satire- because the idea of an entity claiming to be a “church” keeping someone holed up is insane. I don’t want to say “ridiculous” because that seems disrespectful, but it’s such an insane thing that it makes you go WTF. Unfortunately, it’s a reality.

      Sid, I’m so sorry about your son. I hope that he gets out, and I hope that you’re able to get a hold of him soon and speak to him.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      well I asked CC Int to have him call you…

      • I’m being a total twit and tweeting away….it’s on reddit now, so that’s a good thing…..

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Tia’s twitty tweets. Has a nice ring to it., but don’t say it fast too many times or it might sound…ahem, titty.

          • well they’d be small titties—don’t tell dodo! 😉

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Oh Tia, it’s ok. We all love your twitties. 😉

            • gotta stay within those small perimeters! 😀

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              How are the ribs?

            • All but ONE has gone back to it’s home; but….BUT….I swear somehow my ribs are in cahoots with my lungs (well, um, yeah…..but in another way)…..every time the last one is almost back, I start getting horrible coughing fits!!! They started again the other day! When I got my prolia shot last week she checked my ribs, said the one was almost back and i told her i had started coughing again—dry cough, canNOT stop once i start, what do i do??? after she got done laughing “only you!” she said there wasn’t much i could do, besides doing what i’ve been doing—keeping fluid intake up, holding my rib area where they pop out when i cough, using cough drops—though my throat isn’t really sore…..she said they probably WILL pop back out……fffffuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkkkkk……and once they had, it’ll probably be an ongoing problem….i asked if needed ribs and she said i did….i’m not sure about that…..i think i could substitute a metal rib plate 😉

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              That’s too bad. Maybe you could join the circus?

              After about my third hernia operation, I asked the doctor if he could line my abdomen with kevlar.

            • Hell, this is sort of a circus around this neighborhood already! 😀 Did you get kevlar in your abdomen? Probably not? Doctors don’t understand do they?

  • Frodis73

    Sid, I’m so sorry to hear about your son…I hope we can put some heat on them and maybe he will call you guys. HUGS.

  • Juicer77

    Kitteh Corner is open… (f5)

    • Andrew Robertson

      The kittens were happy to have completed the TR’s and mastered the Tone 40 intention stare. Now, for the next step up the Bridge!

      Andrew

      [Picture]

      • Juicer77

        LOL!

    • beauty for ashes

      smoooshy smooshy smoooooooosh. want to squeeze them!

      • Susan B.

        My Bubby gets petting and kissing and hugging *and* squishing daily.

  • nottrue

    did i hear the word “boyfriend”…https://youtu.be/L_2bDZCInvo

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Oh no, I did not know that. I am so sorry Tory! Like she says at the end, it could have been worse.

    • Missionary Kid

      Yes, you did. She’s been getting support and care from a lot of people because people like her.

      She’s great to have as another sister.

      I believe that if she was still in, she’d be told “you pulled it in,” which is total bullshit.

    • OOkpik

      To our hop-along, Tory Magoo:
      May you soon be wearing your shoe.
      In the meantime we miss you
      Like snot misses tissue.
      Giggles and Bunker hugs to you.
      (((Tory)))

  • Dave Reams

    Is it fair to say that the FDA was the only U.S. government authority that ever had any effect on curbing Hubbard and Scientology?

    • TonyOrtega

      Curb them? It only resulted in a settlement that forced Scientology to put a disclaimer on all e-meters. Not a big deal. Eight years later, the FBI and DOJ put eleven Scientologists in prison. Probably that’s a more important ‘curbing.’

      And from 1967 to 1993, the IRS and the courts refused Scientology tax exempt status, which very nearly crippled it. But then Fred Goldberg caved.

      So all in all, the FBI/DOJ of 77-79 was maybe the biggest government lashing.

  • Racoon Hat.

    • Dr_Orpheus

      That’s one of the funnier Hubris shops I’ve seen. That hat really fits his vacant expression.

    • LOVE IT!!! But it inspired me to stick a douche bag hat on him, cuz well, yeah……

    • Susan B.

      can you do a propeller beanie?

  • I’ll just leave this here . . .

    • Observer

      That is breathtaking!

      • Thanks! I have been laughing about the title “Pip-squeak Prometheus” since breakfast. It was worth playing hooky and working a little late to make up for it.

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      I must have this work of art for my offices at Drinkwater Studios. What is the opening bid?

  • salin

    OT So the Yeahawdists in Oregon have created a video serving to call other like-minded folks to join them. A video which reminds me of the ridiculous video of the galloping fabio-esque horsemen at St. Hill:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/blaine-cooper-oregon-battle-trumpets

    • Someone needs to take a cattle stampede video and splice it to the end of this.

      • salin

        Oh how I wish I had the talent to do that. That would be hilarious.

      • Kay

        That’s a hilarious idea…this guys are such idiots.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Oh FFS these insane R6 implant religionists are an embarrassment to those of us who are truly religious.

      https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/551b0a9becad04fc55f7348d-1200-706/screenshot2015-03-31at12.44.11pm.png

      • salin

        “With great vigor and frenetic urgency, Little Big Being Tom and Littler Big Being Dave pull the chord for vast emptiness hope for this sector of the galaxy.”

      • stillgrace2

        There seems to be so much going on in this photo; I don’t know where to start.

        • Mark Foster

          Clue: it´s the yanking/jerking motion…

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    CONFIDENTIAL OSA INT EMERGENCY COMM
    Summary: J&D’ers on the wog interwebs are making fun of the recent OSA Ethics Interrogatory. This J&D activity must be stopped. COB has called a Code Red. All OSA WUS INVEST (SO & OTC) are to report to the AOLA Atrium this evening at 6:00 PM for a special emergency briefing. Free pizza will be served. Please send all datums to osasecretoperations@gmail.com

    ETHICS INTERROGATORY

    R/F: This interrogatory is being done to find out more data on David Miscavige due to reports concerning out-tech and squirreling.

    Please answer the following with as many specifics as possible:

    1. Are you aware of any attempt by David Miscavige to make less of LRH or his tech?

    2. Do you know of any instances of David Miscavige evaluating or invalidating preclears by telling them that they were really never Clear and needed to redo their lower grades?

    3. Do you know of instances in which David Miscavige has altered the basics texts of Scientology in order to re-sell the same books over and over and over?

    4. Are you aware of any other auditor’s code violation by David Miscavige ?

    5. Describe any instances you are aware of out-tech committed by David Miscavige on anyone you know. Please use up to 1,000 extra sheets of paper if necessary.

    6. Provide data on any squirreling activity David Miscavige has been engaged in.

    7. Are you aware or any other out-ethics or illegal activity David Miscavige is engaged in?

    8. Do you know of any instance in which David Miscavige has pretended to hold any ecclesiastical office to which he was never legally appointed or elected by the Founder or by a duly and legally convened Board of Directors?

    9. Has David Miscavige forced you to purchase libraries or congresses that you already own?

    10. Has David Miscavige altered the definition of a Floating Needle?

    11. Has David Miscavige suppressed, crushed, beaten, or invalidated senior tech terminals of the Church?

    12. Has David Miscavige engaged in unusual solutions?

    13. Do you know of instances in which David Miscavige has made buildings senior to the Tech and making auditors?

    14. Do you know of instances in which David Miscavige has publicly told lies?

    15. Do you know of instances in which David Miscavige has brought wide disrepute or scorn upon the Church due to his personal Out Ethics?

    Thanks very much for the information.

    Replay e-mail: osasecretoperations@gmail.com

    OSA Secret Operations for Non-Standard Tech and Unusual Solutions

    • This Interrog tells me that LRH is back from Target 2. Sweet theta.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        This Interrog tells me that LRH is back from Target 2. Sweet theta.

        Ron is back from T2 and boy is he pissed at Misk!

        • Qbird

          oh sure OTVIIIisGreat… he back & has brought with him the new Ideal Mark XII.

          The amazing LuRcH speaketh ~

          https://youtu.be/LNIbhRufPQI

    • Dave Reams

      What about: Has David Miscavige been implanted this lifetime? (though Tom Cruise is hardly likely to confirm this)

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        No Dave no! How dare you try imply that COB has been inseminated this lifetime by Tom Cruise. This never happened. Some psych must have PDH’d you with false datums!

        http://images2.villagevoice.com/imager/u/original/6712349/tomcruisedavidmiscavige.jpg

        • Chee Chalker

          Every time I see this picture, I laugh and laugh……….
          The picture itself is hilarious enough, but the back story is even funnier, if that is possible.
          The fact that COB had a minion hand deliver this picture to the LA newspaper about to run a negative Co$ story with the thought that this would influence the paper to NOT run the story!
          ‘Oh no! This MISCAVIGE guy is friends with Tom Cruise! And they wear motorcycle jackets……we better back off…….’

      • Dave Reams

        I think I saw the question “have you been implanted this life time?” on a SeaOrg recruiting document. I never knew what it meant. I thought implanting took place 75 million years ago?

  • Mark

    “Asimov … has classes one day a week on Thursday and writes science fiction and books of science during the remainder of the week.” Bet he had tenure as well, the lucky devil. Still, even in the halcyon days of academic sinecures, he probably had to watch his back. (Refresh spirit-gum):

    • Missionary Kid

      IIRC, he had tenure because he had enough outside income from his writing that when he had a disagreement with the administration, he could stand up to them. He eventually won, but the school offered him the chance to have hours like that. He was possibly unpaid, but his position gave him a particular cache and some benefits that he wanted and won for other faculty members as well.

      If he didn’t have the outside income, and was dependent on his salary, he would have caved in.

      He wrote in one his autobiographies, that people praised him for his boldness and for standing up for his principles, but he was only able to do it because of his financial situation. He could have walked away from the position and still been well off financially. He basically had nothing to lose.

      • Mark

        Keeping his scientific hand in: good!

        • Missionary Kid

          Asimov had an edictic memory. It enabled him to write over 500 books. “His books have been published in 9 of the 10 major categories of the Dewey Decimal Classification” according to Wikipedia.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      It’s high time for the muttonchop to make a return to the fashion world.

      http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/Swift77/mutton.chops_zpsjidtbgxo.png

      • Mark

        The less of that face we see, the better. Now if you of RTC could only persuade COB about the virtues of wearing a full-face merkin… like Cousin Itt in The Addams Family

        • villagedianne

          Noooooo! I loved Cousin Itt.

        • Juicer77

          Hey, Mark. See my suggestion to Grrrreat, just above. I’m requesting a shoop 😉

      • Juicer77

        Mr. VIII, will his Eminenceness COB make an executive order that all men are to grow the chops of mutton, and all women are to wear false chops (a la Queen Hatshepsut?). I think it would follow nicely in the grand tradition of paying homage to naval-style uniforms like Commodore Hubbard’s.

  • Gene Trujillo

    ‘Van Vogt’s parting remarks to the Inspectors was that we could gain a
    better picture of the “Hubbard type” by reading his (Van Vogt’s) new
    book, “The Violent Man.”’

    Wow, I must read that!

    • flyonthewall

      don’t, that’s exactly what he wants you to do

      • Gene Trujillo

        I’m sure you are right, but I enjoyed his books and his speculation about human potential so I will buy it any ways 🙂

  • Bavarian Rage

    An unreliable gossip site claims Jamie DeWolfe is filming an exposé on his grandfather – with some interviews of Hub family members. Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

    • Vaquera

      Tony confirmed in the comments this morning.

  • aegerprimo

    I am not a great shooper like Obs and Mark… but sometimes a bad shoop is a good shoop. Here is mine for the day. I call this “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing”.
    ……….

    • aegerprimo

      Er HOLLA… I did not say DeWolfe in sheepish clothing.
      …sheesh….

      • salin

        Look out little red (robinhood). Wolf is going to try to steal everything from the neighborhood. And the next neighborhood, and the next neighborhood, and so on, and so on….

  • HTC

    Reason no. 56,578 that I won’t be voting for this idiot (sorry bunkeroos, just venting):
    http://news.yahoo.com/trump-receives-key-endorsement-sarah-palin-214307232–election.html#

  • Dear shoopers, no more pubic hair, please.

    • Jimmy3

      Yes. No more hair in public. Thank yous

    • aegerprimo

      Did you cough up a fur ball?

  • This story jumped out at me when I was listening to the radio:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/programs/metromorning/taneesha-brown-video-1.3409226

    Missing woman .. wasn’t taking her medication .. Nation of Islam.

    I hope they find her alive.

    • salin

      Agreed. Then I hope that she will start taking her medication.

  • The start a religion incident and cover up shore story was documented extensively by Rich Leiby, in the Washington Post see last couple paragraphs of this article, from Christmas day 1994: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lerma.html

  • Way to go Kent State!! They should have never hired him in the first place! He was working on one of his history degrees when I was at KSU the first time—you ever in Bowman @frodis73:disqus? Remember him?? Then he gets hired, he’s been investigated by the Secret Service, FBI, who knows who else, and he’s STILL TEACHING!!! They claim there’s no threat to campus. Um, hello? I gotta take library books back soon, I’ll take my camera with me. When I finished my history degree in 2009 some of the history profs were very leery of him. One even had an escape plan out of the office—thru the ceiling panels along the heating ducts. What kind of work environment is that?!

    http://www.cleveland19.com/story/31006442/fbi-kent-professor-under-investigation-for-helping-isis

    • salin

      Yikes! The story, and your commentary – esp a professor having such an extreme escape plan. Keep us posted.

      • the escape plan was back in 2009!!! i can’t imagine what they’ve planned now for ‘escape’….probably the department has a contingency plan…..they should!! a couple years ago when kent state had i can’t recall exactly who–it was an israeli speaker though—on campus, he attended and then stood up mid-way thru their speech yelling “death to israel”…..i had one encounter with him around 1991 when i was taking a zionist history class–obviously not taught by him!!! he was still a student then–i think a master’s or phd student and was a teacher’s assistant….he ALWAYS gave me a bad feeling when i saw him in bowman hall…

        • Frodis73

          That is way messed up that a teacher had an escape plan…if the guy was that unstable then I can only imagine how much worse it has gotten. Esp considering how things stand in the mid east. How scary.

          • fucking ridiculous, they should have never hired him…..when you flat out state YOU HATE JEWS, you should NOT be teaching at a public university!!!! or ANY university!

            • Frodis73

              Amen sister! Seriously though…shocking they were dumb enough to hire him in the first place.

            • one professor REALLY went to bat for him…..he ended up losing the department chair, once he got it, over STILL defending him….i wonder if he’s retired yet? i gotta look…but he got really marginalized in the history department for defending this jackalope…..i don’t blame the history department for that—though they should have had the balls to fire this racist violence promoting dick no matter WHO stuck up for him!!! let him stand behind “1st amendment” though he said he hated america too—HE HATES AMERICA!!!!! FFS, they said there’s no threat to kent state…..are they fucking dumb?

            • Frodis73

              So sad. Thankfully it doesn’t look like he recruited anybody at least. A 6th grader could tell this guy is/was dangerous though…not cool.

            • you never know if he recruited anyone or not……we can’t say he didn’t…..we don’t know….

            • now they have a statement from him…..he says he didn’t talk about ISIS in class [emphasis mine, duh]…..nor break any laws….uh huh……and he claims he doesn’t agree with isis or their ideologies….uh huh….tell us more bullshit ye who shouted ‘death to israel’ to a jewish speaker….

        • salin

          How troubling. To get to the point of being bothered enough to have an extreme escape plan (when it includes going into duct work to get away – it is extreme), indicates that the sense of danger had been there for a long time – and had been escalating over time, which fits the time line.

          Having extreme views isn’t uncommon on a college campus. But having extreme views often leaves colleagues rolling their eyes and avoiding situations for long conversations, not fearing for their safety – to the point of expecting an extreme enough safety situation to plot an escape route. Sadly it sounds like the dept and admin took raised concerns as being ‘paranoid/reactionary’ (ala – the type of extreme responses that one can read on far-right political websites), and thus discount the concerns. I get that response – but it is naive if the response does not include investigating the concerns (and given your description – I am guessing that many concerns have been raised to the admin level.)

          It would appear that those (U admin) who should have been paying attention, haven’t and the former student now prof’s activities have escalated to the level of federal agents paying attention. Confirmation of the concerns – but years (decade(s)) delayed. Hope Kent State is paying attention and takes action.

          • Frodis73

            ^^^This, totally this. They really dropped the ball it sounds like.

          • he’s been investigated by the feds i can’t recall HOW many times….and the secret service….i mean, that’s not a clue there’s a problem? the fact he’s stated he hates jews, death to israel should have been reason to can him….supporting the taliban, isis, etc……FIRE HIS ASS and deal with the legal fallout—which i am sure they’d win (ksu) and protect people!!!

    • Susan B.

      What is it in his background that would have given the deans, profs at KSU reason to not hire him? And what caused the profs to be leery of him?

      • one professor lost the department chair because he stood up for him when they didn’t want to hire him…..

        he likes to promote ‘death to israel’ –see my comment to salin below— goes on about how horrible jews are….has even said he hates the united states….then he hides behind “first amendment”….um….dude…..he’s stated his support of the taliban years ago….and now isis—i don’t find it surprising….i am also not surprised he was trying to recruit people for isis…..i’m not surprised AT ALL…..he’s been a blight on the ksu history department since around 1990 when he was getting one of his degrees there….

        • Susan B.

          which prof dept chair & were they in the history dept? whoa, why haven’t canned him?

          • i prefer not to put his name publicly—if you haven’t noticed……email me and i’ll tell you…..i really like him other than that blind spot of his…..i dont’ want to say what classes i had either or that’d identify him….

            • Susan B.

              oh, of course. doh!

            • now if he comes out publicly supporting this dickweed, well then of course i’ll name him….but right now i don’t feel comfortable doing that, ya know?

    • Susan B.

      Oh good grief. Found an example of his support of teenage suicide bombers. I copied the text below from:

      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3190795/posts.

      In an April 2002 guest column for the Kent State campus newspaper, Pino
      penned an effusive tribute to Ayat al-Akras, a teenage Palestinian
      suicide bomber who had murdered two Israelis at a Jerusalem supermarket
      on March 29. In that piece — titled “Singing out Prayer for a Youth
      Martyr” — Pino insisted that Akras was no terrorist but had “died a
      martyr’s death … in occupied Jerusalem, Palestine.” Pino also derided
      President Bush as a “numbskull,” and called for boycotts of all Israeli
      and American products.

      Pino’s research topics look really interesting but he’s right in there, in the middle of the Palestinian/Israeli insanity. I see the good and the bad of both sides. Gives me a stomach ache. I hope KSU (my alma mater too) carefully makes the right choices!

      • oh hey!!! you’re a kent stater too?!?! how/why did i not know this til now???

        he seriously should have never been hired!! then he’s had many instances when he should have been fired….yes, there IS freedom of speech; but pure hatred, “death to israel” ?! support of the taliban, murderers, isis? Um, no…..the RIGHT CHOICE would have been to can his ass YEARS ago!!! how many times you gotta have the secret service/fbi/feds investigate someone???

        i’ve taken zionist history and have read palestinian history extensively…..i’m not anti-semetic, i don’t support murders, etc and he’s just an extremist!! TOTAL FUCKING EXTREMIST whom yes, i would consider a danger…..

        • Susan B.

          You know, I love history and if I had to go back a do it again I would study history. I graduated in 1984. Studied French. Suffered from clinical depression most of my time there so I never really felt connected but I always loved the town and some parts of campus. Depression –that was very French of me, n’est-ce pas? But it’s all good. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. When you were there were there still annoying Bible wielding fundamentalist Christians in the courtyard shouting about ho-MOOOOOOOOOOOOO SEXuals? Gotta get the right accents there.

          • Frodis73

            I’m not MT, but I’m going to answer that yes they were there! As late as 96 too. I know because I was in the “lgbt and friends club” (don’t remember name) and we would sorta harass them by talking about condoms and safe sex. We would blow up condoms, etc and just make them look dumb in the name of unity and safe sex.

            • HAH! we replied at the same time!!

            • Frodis73

              Something inside me died when I learned about Brady’s. They had the best hash browns…I’d stop there before my soc class. That place WAS Kent man…but to turn it into a freaking Starbucks??? Gag me.

            • remember open poetry night?? one night we went and my bf got up and recited the beginning of ‘paradise city’ then blew a whistle and those of us who came along just started headbanging…..he was applauded loudly…..some one came up and said “I really get what you were doing”…..um, no dude, you did not……

              but yeah, brady’s as a starfucks?!?!?!?!?

            • Frodis73

              Lol, that is so Brady’s. That place was beyond great. My ex did open poetry night a few times and some other peeps, but I never did. Too bad they are closed, we could go him ’em w your sci haikus!!

          • Oh yes!! They were still there in the plaza!!! we learned they’d video the crowd to get more funding so we’d give ’em the finger!! Some days we’d start making out in front of them and say “you just need to get laid”…..they finally got banned for basically ‘hate speech’….thank fuck!!!

            you remember ‘brady’s cafe’? now it’s a STARBUCKS!! i got to ksu in ’88……i had to take french –required….i know nada of french…..had it in high school/college about 7 years total….nope….didn’t come natural….and yes, that was french of you to be depressed, i hope you’ve recovered/gotten it managed…..

            • Susan B.

              Starbucks??? That’s awful!

            • yeah, i certainly wasn’t a brady’s person but STARBUCKS?!?! i just shake my head every time i go past that…..

          • Frodis73

            Susan, I can relate to a lot of your post. My cousin took some pretty advanced/serious French classes, but that was after your time. I love French and took 3 years in high school because I would need it when I went there. Ha. I have never gone and i’m now 43 (will be in a few days anyway) and I will prob never go. Did you ever get to go to France and use your skills?

      • Frodis73

        Oh no! Another can’t read, can’t write, Kent Stater!! Lol, just kidding, I love KSU.

        • can’t read, can’t write, can’t remember what i did last night–KENT STATE!!!!

          i love ksu too!! 🙂

      • Susan B.

        Oops, Free Republic is a bunch of raging conservatives. However I have found sources that confirm he wrote the article in 2002 praising the teenage suicide bomber. Totally insane and tragic that adults recruit teenagers for suicide bombing.

        • oh yeah, he said shit like that in the early 90s—praising violence….he wrote that, he screamed “death to israel” at an event just like 2 years ago…..he should NOT be a professor!

    • Frodis73

      Omg, the name is ringing a bell. I took Friedman’s Holocaust class (*best* class ever, seriously) in 93…my memory is soooooo bad at times, but his name and pic is definitely ringing a bell. Btw, omx, I didn’t know you were history grad!! Wow.

      • Whoa, I took a couple of Friedman’s classes…..and i had one in ’93….maybe it was a holocaust class—spring of ’93?? we might have been in the SAME DAMN CLASS ROOM!! yeah, i have a history degree….

        he’d go around the halls in a long robe and he always had a white crocheted head covering (i don’t know the official name and i’m too tired to look it up)…..does THAT ring a bell?

        • Frodis73

          Holy crap. Yes, it was then…that was one of those classes that was only offered every couple years or something like that. I actually had to go talk to him and get permission to get in because it was a jr/sr level class and I was only a sophomore (non history major too). He asked me some questions and why I wanted to take it and he signed my paper. I really liked him a lot. At that time there was an inter faith trip to the Holocaust museum in DC too…does that ring a bell? I’ll die if we were in same class now too. LMAO.
          Yes, I do remember a guy wandering the halls like that…if it’s same guy I’m thinking of I just remember there was a general feeling of weirdness about him…not because of the head covering, it was SO much more than that.

          • ding ding ding—THAT WAS HIM!!!!! he always gave me a bad feeling…..and no, it was NOT related to how he dressed!!

            yep, i was a senior that semester and had to drop out about a month before i was to graduate —too OT for here now and i’m gonna go to bed…..(yeah seriously, how fucked is that, but hey, that’s just my life 🙂 …..um, dude, we were in the same classroom….i always sat in the back…..dressed in black usually…..or at least at my boyfriend’s biker jacket…..

            WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! same friends…..same room/bar/same class….um??? dafuq?!??!?

            • Frodis73

              Fuck me, that is just too weird. I was almost always in black too. At that time I had *very* short hair (almost shaved as it had been shaved in Dec) and it was platinum blonde white. I usually sat halfway back to the back on the right side. It’s a miracle we didn’t meet. Did you smoke back then by chance? I’m having a flashback of some girl that used to sit on that little wall outside the building and smoke…she had a black leather.

            • nope, i did not smoke…..my bf at the time did, long blond hair, usually hung out outside the student center…..

              right side by the windows? or the interior wall? i was in the back —way back—in the middle…..and yes it IS weird…..how many fucking opportunities did we have to meet?! we fucking HAD to have been in the same room at terrace at some point!!!

            • Frodis73

              Man! If my freaking house wouldn’t have burned down I had video from the student center…I used to sit in the “freak corner” of course, but I remember there were heavy metal types that mixed with us punks. I wonder if maybe you are on my video…James was in a ton of it…he even took off with it for awhile and went talking to people…and you know how he was…he knew everyone. I hate scientology, but it so cool that sci and Tony brought us together.

            • Tom was a heavy metal type……outside the student center people didn’t really separate when they sat along the windows……inside the cafeteria, yes there was the freak corner…..i’d eat with james sometimes……i bet if i wasn’t on your video, tom or someone else i knew was on it!!

              wait….wait…..wait a fucking second……wait one fucking second……james was interviewing people with the camera wasn’t he?? in the spring?? dude, yes, he stopped me….i was on an errand for the alumni center where i worked…..

            • Mark Foster

              Tia and Frodis, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this exchange. I lived in Ohio many moons ago-Dayton…and Bowling Green…and fucking HATED it. Met some very nice people, though.

            • I don’t think I’ve ever been over to that area.

        • Frodis73

          Hey, did you ever take the peace and conflict studies class? Just curious…lol.

          • oh hell no, can you picture me in that??? that was thru the may 4th idiots–with the history department—and i wouldn’t have lasted long there…. 😀 do you ever remember seeing ‘alternative’ may 4th speaker flyers around?? i did those for quite a few years….oh hey, were you still around for the Cocktails with Carol flyer prank? that made the front page of the DKS! 😀

            • Frodis73

              I had to ask. Be glad you didn’t, I took it and it was totally boring unfortunately. We’ll have to email about may 4th…I kinda remember something about that. I mostly remember the year PP&M played because I took some awesome pics.
              I do remember the cocktails thing. I remember my first year (into my second year even) at KSU she was really, really getting raked over the coals, like all the time. James talked about messing with her all the time too.

            • I was/am so proud of Cocktails with Carol!! 😀 I still have a copy of it AND the DKS! 🙂 I think I have some of my May 4th faux flyers too—I’d make like 100 copies then stick ’em all over campus. ONLY the years I thought the May 4th Task Force did a horrible job of getting speakers—the speakers that make you go ‘dafuq they doing at may 4th?’….i wasn’t there the year of PP&M….were you there the year CSN played?? that was SURREAL having OHIO sung overlooking the field…..they played about 5 or 6 other songs too…..

              I got a meeting with Carol—not due to cocktails 😉 —but due to having an Iranian Physics TA teaching College Algebra who 1) could BARELY speak english and 2) he REFUSED to respond to any women asking questions cuz women shouldn’t be in college!!! The guys would ask questions but that lasted about a week, before I fucking snapped and went off on him—yes, in true glorious tia snapping fashion “You fucking sexist pig, this is the USA and you need to fucking respect ALL students including those with vaginas!!”…..i marched out and marched over to the math building…..well gee, they were sorry but he was a physics TA and i had to go there and complain…um he’s teaching a MATH class!! off to the physics department i marched….filed a complaint…..then went over to ‘stud’ services and saw the ombudsman and filed a complaint—about the math department AND the TA…..then i wrote Carol a letter saying it’s really hard to learn when a TA can barely speak english and then will not acknowledge female students…..her secretary called about a week later to schedule a meeting…..after that, they have made TAs—all, to be fair, speak in front of a selection of professors and random students who grade them on if they’re understandable….

              i will say carol was nice and it was thanks to her that those parking spots at the prentice hall parking lot were FINALLY permanently closed off…..remember how they just had angel stencils in those 4 spots?? TACKY!!!!!!!!!!! and beyond disrespectful!!

            • Frodis73

              Oh yeah, the parking thing was one of the few good things she did get done. That bothered me before I even went to school there.
              I do remember that story about your prof and I so wish I could have been there the day you went off in class–classic!! Do you have a pic of the flyer? Can you take one? I want to see it!!!

            • yeah, that was the last day we had that TA too!! we had the option to drop—and have it erased from our record—or continue with the other TA…..

              i THINK cocktails with carol is in a file next to my desk…..i’ll look in a bit….if not, then it’s in my bedroom—and i believe it’s easily obtained cuz i KNOW i’ve seen it fairly recently!! i’ll take a pix 🙂

  • Susan B.

    Virgin clover, at last! I bought a shaker can of clover seeds and went crazy with it in the front yard. This is the first of it coming up and it hasn’t been tramped on or cut yet. Isn’t it gorgeous? My lawn isn’t doing too great what with the California drought, the 16 oz doggy duty bombs, 8 oz dog whizzes and 37 varieties of weeds so I figure if I can get some clover in there it could help. Clover puts nitrogen in the soil and there’s also the sweet smelling flowers and the stinging bees.

    • EmmaDaoust

      Has anybody seen Jimmy?

      • daisy

        Jimmy 3 or is this a joke, jimmy in the clover or another Jimmy altogether ? If it is Jimmy 3 he was here earlier. Nice to see you posting again.

        • EmmaDaoust

          Jimmy3 of course. I think I see him somewhere in that beautiful lawn of clover.

          • daisy

            He has been taking steroids so he is that big one in the middle.

        • Susan B.

          I should have mentioned Jimmy wasn’t involved with the growing of clover but ya know, perhaps I was subliminally moved by his clover avatars here. OK, I now dedicate this clover patch to Jimmy of UB.

          • EmmaDaoust

            They all look just like him. He should be proud. 🙂 They’re beautiful, Susan.

            • Susan B.

              Thanks. I can’t wait to start looking for the four-leaf clovers.

    • daisy

      Jimmy 3 family reunion.
      Where*s Jimmy puzzle.

    • Juicer77

      How lovely! I see somebunny’s been nibblin’ a few already 😉

  • OT – if you signed the petition to ban Trump in the UK and get 100k+ signatures parliament has to debate it…. this just came in [the transcript]…. here’s a very small sample:

    Dr Huq

    Share this contribution

    Is my hon. Friend aware that people find that individual repellent because he is not only racist but homophobic and misogynistic?

    START statement

    END statement

    Tulip Siddiq

    Share this contribution

    I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention.

    When Megyn Kelly asked Donald Trump on Fox News to explain why he called some women

    “‘fat pigs’, ‘dogs’, ‘slobs’ and ‘disgusting animals’”,

    he replied,

    “What I say is what I say.”

    Is that the kind of man we want in our country?

    I thoroughly anticipate the rebuttal that we cannot exclude people merely because they offend us or because we do not like them, but as politicians we have to make difficult decisions. We have to decide when freedom of speech compromises public safety. We are worried about our constituents’ safety. The Centre for the Study of Hate and Extremism pointed out that anti-Muslim crime has increased in line with the rhetoric that Donald Trump used in the last three months of 2015. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West mentioned the homeless Hispanic man who was beaten up by two brothers from south Boston. When they beat him up, they broke his nose and urinated on him. The police report said that one of them justified the act by saying:

    “Donald Trump was right—all these illegals need to be deported.”

    Donald Trump’s words stoke and inflame hate crime.

    Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)

    Share this contribution

    I am interested in the point that the hon. Lady seems to be making. To make sure I have understood her correctly, is she laying all the responsibility for the increase in hate crime against Muslims at Donald Trump’s door? Does she not believe that acts of terrorism, such as those in Paris, contributed to it?

    full transcript https://hansard.digiminster.com/commons/2016-01-18/debates/1601186000001/DonaldTrump

    pic

    BONUS ERIC IDLE TWEET

  • Sid (Phil Jones)

    Hey all. We had a short phone call from our son (first time talking to him in over 1 1/2 years). Didn’t go very well. He just gave us the ‘church’ lines they had fed him. No real resolution on the medical issue and no face to face with him. At this point we’re not sure what to do. To us he’s still missing but I suppose legally not so much. I appreciate everyone putting out the posters and the word. You are all far better souls than any of those Scientologists who stonewalled us all along the way. Love to you all.

    • Qbird

      oh wow wow wow – man – happy to hear this – wow – sweet – XXX OOO !!!

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Although it was nice to hear his voice I wouldn’t necessarily call it a happy call. More like a punch in the gut kind of call.

        • Give it a year and a half tops. Or even sooner. I feel you on hearing his voice. It will get better.

        • Qbird

          Oh, ok Sid, but! He called you…! Your message of care & concern for him got through!
          I want for you more. I want for you to be in his life (as it should be). I am in awe of Fathers (parents) who want to know their children.
          I can count on maybe a finger more than my one hand how many times my own father has tried to contact me, in my entire life. It’s a big deal.
          Hugs & a kiss right to your forehead Sid.

        • Mockingbird

          I hope the collapse of the cult escalates and leads to more families reuniting.

        • Juicer77

          I’m sure you already are, but please hug Mrs. Sid tight for us. I know she’s had an especially tough time. Still praying…

    • daisy

      Love you back Sid. I am sorry no resolution about the medical issue, possibly if he gets sick you will have planted a seed to seek medical help. I realize that things may not have gone the way you liked but you know now he is alive and where he is. I pray for the families affected by disconnection everyday. I always have you in mind.

    • Don’t do anything. The seeds are planted. Hugs.

    • Illinoisian

      “gave us the ‘church’ lines”
      Sometimes people do this very emphatically when they are beginning to have doubts in their minds — you know — trying to convince themselves. I’m playing amateur psychologist here, but I hope this might be the case. It could be that some cracks in the armor are beginning to appear. I hope so. Love back at ya.

    • beauty for ashes

      How you feelin now?

    • madame duran

      “I appreciate everyone putting out the posters and the word.”
      Wot’s this? Was this discussed here or was the plan secretly hatched offline? In any case, those actions forced the cult to react. You got a call from your son. It’s a start.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        You’re right. We did force a reaction. We will continue to fight.

        • Cars

          Do you know what or who made him pick up the phone? His poster circulated quickly on social media and was posted on Reddit, WWP, and ESMB. I’m just wondering if those methods were effective in reaching him and if this would work again when you needed him to call you again.

          I hope he left the door open to future contact and that you have a phone number or easier way of reaching him again now if you have to.

          I’m so sorry, Sid. I had such high hopes for a better outcome for you and your wife.

          And yes, the fight continues.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Yes, I also wonder if it was a particular posting location – here, reddit, ESMB, etc or was it because of the overall quantity – there were so very many posts,

            • Cars

              It was rather awesome/wonderful to watch it spread out so quickly in so many venues. For future reference, it would be helpful to know if this was effective or if it was Sid’s own contacts that made it possible.

              ETA: see Sid’s response above. Whatever worked, it was “a one shot deal and can’t be used again.”

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Yes I see that Sid said that. Well, we will do what we can and what we need to. Bunker never sleeps.

          • Sid (Phil Jones)

            It was a combination of factors. I can’t say too much right now about the others. There is no open door or phone number. This was a one shot deal and can’t be used again.

            • Cars

              I understand. And damn!

              So, at your side, arm in arm, we wait some more…

            • Juicer77

              I’m really hoping that the dwindling Co$ numbers mean the cracks in the walls are getting wider and wider, and more entheta is getting in every which way. Even though this particular door is shut now, there may be more very soon. I hope all the attention received at the Bunker did not cause more problems in the attempt. 🙁

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              No, the more the better.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh Sid – I’ll email you if you have the same email. It was awful brave of you both to put yourself through this – I’m sure you both knew you were only going to hear the parrot talk as he would have been closely monitored. But I understand being able to hear his voice but not able to hear HIM so frustrating and painful.

              I hope you can hang on to the hope that he had to know what extraordinary efforts you are all making, as well as others!, to let him know he is cared about, thought about and loved while he is in there. No matter what, this knowledge will help him hold to his core self that scientology tries to strip away.

              Remember he may have thrown rejection your way, even tho that is scientology speaking, but there is no way he will be throwing out that seed of love and support that was planted. They can NOT take that away from him. Scientology IS falling apart and you and I both know how nuts it gets. It is impossible for the powers that be to cloak ALL the red flags that must be popping up everywhere every single day. Some major shift IS going to happen in the titonic plates this year. I know you will never let go and never stop trying. Just please take care of your own health and hearts in the interim. You, your family and your son have more support than you can imagine. We are all with you. Whatever you need, my friend.

        • One Human

          And we will continue to rally behind you!!!!

      • Frodis73

        It’s downthread a few hours ago.

      • salin

        Really interesting rapid evolution/escalation today. My take: unrelated to the UB, Sid/Sid’s family created a poster/posting that got picked up on instagram and was independently posted here. Without context, there was confusion and some skepticism due to no ‘foot print’ found on line regarding confirmation. Sid gave confirmation that if folks (skeptical) called – they would get him on the phone as he would answer.

        This shifted the dynamic into action mode. An amazing outpouring and actions that moved the conversation far past the UB. I know that scrolling through a heavy posting day can be time consuming, but it is worth watching this unfold from somewhere between 3-5 eastern time.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          And on reddit too.

          • salin

            Awesome. Distinctly different community – greatly broadening the reach of the message and action.

        • daisy

          I was fascinated and amazed. I have been following this. I am so impressed how quickly the word got around . The internet rules. Scientology blinked ! I hope the lesson learned is that the UB is an effective tool, and a resource.

          • Sid (Phil Jones)

            Yes! We spit in their eye, and they blinked.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Pffft! Let’s find a library and do it again.

        • madame duran

          Thanks for the update. I’ve only been able to do sneak peeks recently to upvote others here or there. I’ll try to scroll down and read the exchange. Sounds exciting! 🙂

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Oh madame duran the twtterverse was blasting and I even emailed CC Int asking for him to cal his parents…

    • SP Wogsy

      There’s also a good chance somebody was standing there when he called. I hope everything works out.

    • Frodis73

      Argh, such assholes. I am glad you got to hear his voice though. I’m so sorry Sid. HUGS.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Oh Sid! I am so glad he called you. I do wonder about an Adult Protective Services report asking for an investigation.

      Advice consistently given to me (about my still-in family member) is to just be there, let him know you will always be there, remind him you love him unconditionally and all the good family memories, remind him of his pre-cult authentic self and good qualities, and hope to build some trust so he can call you again.

      No criticism or pressure to visit because as Chuck Beatty once told me, no matter how much pressure you put on him it will NEVER be as much as he is getting from inside. And of course they are listening in. They are more likely to let him call again if you do not criticize. I am at a point where I can sometimes have unsupervised visits with my family member, a long way from the disconnection where we were at a few years ago. I am using Steve Hassan’s Freedom of Mind approach. https://www.freedomofmind.com

      • salin

        Awesome, albeit pain laden, advice. <3 FM,FH. ((Sid and Sid's wife)).

    • Mockingbird

      I am so sad. I was hoping for a better outcome. This is the part that sucks every damned day and is so infuriating and frustrating about the cult.

      I have heard from so many parents who can never see or sometimes even bury their children. Some get lied to about the circumstances their children die under and then told to keep it quiet, for the reputation of the cult.

      Xenu forbid anyone know about the Lisa McPherson special or other Scientology products. It’s just disgusting and disheartening. If the Bunkeroos and Bunker were not here I might lose faith and walk away.

      I think it gives many people a place to learn Scientology screwed us all, and we were never the problem, Hubbard, his technology and his cult ( which is now Miscavige’s ) were always the problem.

      I am not saying we have no responsibility, but we were misled from day one. Without the Bunker a lot of people would never discover that.

    • I’m sorry it didn’t go well, my tweet is still being retweeted and others have started tweeting the info too. Perhaps if it keeps spreading he’ll call again if it stays in the public eye? He probably had someone listening in and several people in the room with him when he called, his mouth might have been saying what he had been told too; but his heart might have been saying something else.

      (((HUGS))) Much much love you to Sid

    • salin

      How bittersweet, and I doubt that the sweet part is hard to feel – compared to the pain/concerns that you have. As a never-in, I have no advice to give per moving forward. I concede to the wise advice offered by those who have lived this – both as the one in, and as the one disconnected.

      Yet there is bit of sweet. The voice, his voice. And while he was parroting a script, he was still in a conversation which couldn’t be controlled (per your side of the conversation), and he had to hear – and even if he didn’t listen in the moment, while someone was likely standing with him, he heard those words. Co$ can’t erase that. Those seeds are planted.

      My heart breaks for you and your family. Hoping those seeds blossom into doubts and action on those doubts. ((Sid & family))

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Scientology…do you have ANY IDEA how mean, vicious, vindictive, manipulative, controlling, heartless, petty and ruthless this makes you and your so-called “religion” seem when you rip apart families like this? Oh, and did I mention stupid? You are the ones destroying your own reputation with your vile and illegal actions, and you have only yourselves to blame as the whole thing goes down the toilet. So sorry Sid.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      They might have been controlling what your son said, but they cant control what he heard, and what sunk in so there is a chance your phone call went better than you think, even if it doesn’t seem so now.
      The door is open a tiny bit, that is what matters.

      • Juicer77

        This ^^^

        • Dice

          Me too…

    • flyonthewall

      Even though it didn’t go as you would have liked, I’m very glad that he called you.

      I’m so sorry about those horrible jokes I made. I just got it in my head it was a hoax and took my joking too far. I do that often, take things to an absurd, extreme level just bc I can and now I know it is something I need to work on. Even if it was a hoax there are real people in that type of situation, some of whom could have been reading the comments here and I shouldn’t of taken it where I did.

      Thank you for being so patient and kind. I really value your friendship and hope that your family is reunited soon.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Thanks Fly. You really don’t have to worry. You’re a friend and nothing you said offended. I do appreciate the support. Thanks.

    • daisy

      Sid I have something I was thinking about last night. If scientology knows you and all the other ant-scientology sites, are concerned about your son*s health would they not make sure he seeks medical advice to avoid the blowback from us ? I realize if it is a mental health concern that would not apply. I offer this as hope for more peace of mind, and know Scientology doesn’t necessarily do the right thing even if causes problems for itself.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Scientology is not big on medical care for any reason. The best we can do is make it known so that others don’t fall into the same trap.

  • daisy

    I don’t know if Frontline is seen in the USA but the new one is about the dangers of vitamins and the risks of taking meg-doses of them. On now on PBS for Canadians

    • MaxSpaceman

      New York, too.

    • Eileen

      Thanks for the heads up, it’s on in Boston.

    • Mockingbird

      Can we send it straight to the purif ?

    • Frodis73

      Lol, I just posted about this up above. Oops!! Pretty good ep though.

    • Liberated

      Frontline is on PBS right now.

  • Jenny Griffith

    Hey! Stacy Francis at the FH!

    • daisy

      FH ?

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Fort Harrison Hotel, Clearwater. Scientology headquarters.

        • daisy

          Sorry I didn’t refresh . Thanks for the info.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Fort Harrison Hotel, Clamwater FL.
        The biggest grossing Scientology organization in the world.

      • Mockingbird

        Not Fondling Hands, as in Hubbard’s !

        • beauty for ashes

          Fuzzy Horse, where my little bronies, Tom and Davey, like to hang out.

          • Mockingbird

            Scientology bronies ! Unlikely, bronies are too free to be allowed in Scientology.

            • beauty for ashes

              Somebody shooped it, you know from the famous, totally normal friendship picture on motorcycles.

            • Mockingbird

              You mean the TC worships Miscavige who doesn’t know how to have a normal relationship photo !?

            • beauty for ashes

              yeppir!

    • beauty for ashes

      Just finished watching “the Martian” a bit ago, and have no urgent need to listen to Disco ever again in my life. I bet even though its on the same line, refreshments aren’t free. They’re probably terrible.

      • Jenny Griffith

        Refreshments ” available” at the registrars desk. Must sign billion year contract.

        • beauty for ashes

          Chew on this IAS card.

          • Juicer77

            ROFL! XD

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        LOL = I remember out of all the horrifying potential dangers and terrifying problems when stranded on Mars, his finding out that he has only DISCO to listen to was indeed, my worst nightmare. LOL

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Kenny “the human orchestra”?
      HA! It sounds like someone is too cheap to hire a band for this event.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Music to Telex by!

      This is breaking news. Scientology finally kisses the 50’s goodbye and progresses to … Disco!

  • Frodis73

    Alert for those west of Ohio: PBS Frontline tonight is about the vitamins and supplements industry…it’s pretty darn good.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Oooooof. I was taking 10,000 units Vit. D.

      Just heard on Frontline, saying- don’t go over 4,000 units of D. Okay… I get it.

      • beauty for ashes

        Why? What if you’re deficient?

        • MaxSpaceman

          Because more leads to calcification in various parts of the body and organs.

          5,000 units is enough.

          Enough? is enough!

          • Peter

            Source?

            • MaxSpaceman

              this thread !

            • Peter

              Good luck!

            • daisy

              I also wish you luck in your future journey. I did not mean to be condescending, I just don’t agree with you.

            • MaxSpaceman

              It turns out the science from many sources, other than Frontline science interviewees, say 5,000 units per day of Vit. D is safe. And no one taking 10,000 units or less of D per day has reported any bad results.

              I’m glad I looked further than the Frontline show. 🙂

            • Peter

              Researching anything to do with health is now in our own hands. That is one of the most freeing things imaginable. I find, far too often, that both doctors and dentists are far behind the development curves. What one learned 20 years ago can be far out of reality with what has been discovered yesterday. As well, we now have the whole world from which to get our information. I was supposed to have been dead 20 years ago (5 doctors stated it emphatically) if I didn’t have a particular operation. I didn’t.

        • daisy

          Lots of different diseases linked to Vit D deficiency anything from IBS to menstrual problems. They probably have lots on the internet if interested. Vit. D is the sunshine Vitamin. Lots of Dr. advise people to take it in the winter months especially if prone to S.A.D. I hope things are getting resolved and you are taking care.

          • beauty for ashes

            LOL** in my pre fully caffeinated state, this was done by an old lady with a severe underbite in a lab coat.***
            Let me just say, that as far as things getting done, I am in the stage like~ when you start running the mile and you start off fast,then suddenly the end feels too far away and you realize you’re already burned too much energy. Between you me and the lamppost, I have to start conserving some energy. Because I have no idea, and no control over when things will happen.

          • Peter

            What’s the source of your information on Vitamin D and diseases?

            • daisy

              4 yrs Nursing School, BsN. , C.P.S.

        • daisy

          Hey Beauty– I get what you mean , sometimes while you are stiil in shock and the beginning a problem doesn’t seem difficult. When you are in the middle, whole different story. I am sure some of the shock has worn off. I am glad to see you post still, that means you are engaged. Try very hard not to isolate yourself. Even if you don’t talk, having someone just to sit and be with you helps. I pray for you every night. Even if you are an atheist it at the very least lets me feel less helpless.

          • beauty for ashes

            (((((<3))))))))) heart hug daisy. I am frankly polytheistic at this point. I have an Ifa alter, with a little from what I learned from Nat's day of the dead alter, with Buddhist prayer flags, catholic prayer books. I've prayed with friends who are born again Christians. I accept all prayers and positive energy. I don't want you to feel helpless. You are contributing. I am hearing you although I may be a little disassociated at times. And I appreciate you continuing to try and engage me. I probably need that. Its what I would probably do too 🙂 u good people daisy! MWAH!

            • daisy

              I feel the same about you. I am glad to see you here every day. (((( hugs ))) back . Hope the rest of the family are doing ok too.

      • Juicer77

        Talk to your doctor, for sure! PS I like the new Avi 🙂

        • MaxSpaceman

          It’s only been a coupla few weeks, so am stopping 2day to 1000mg.

          :->)

          • Peter

            I hope you’re getting a LOT of direct sunlight on your skin daily.

        • Peter

          I’ve found several doctors recently who are so far behind current health developments that I have simply stopped going.

          • Juicer77

            I get that you’ve got a beef with doctor and the FDA and other government agencies. And you have a real reason to be wary of poorly trained medicos and faulty government “oversight” groups that do their jobs quite poorly. But I sincerely hope that you consider the good things that modern medicine has to offer, on your own terms and for your own benefit.

            • Peter

              Virtually ALL medical doctors are poorly trained. For instance, for quite some time now the average education in the area of nutrition is 6 to 8 HOURS total! And what foods one is taking in should be an absolute primary for good health. And to all intents and purposes, they have NO training in vitamins and minerals. Keep in mind, too, that the great number of them “specialize” in one particular area. The body simply does not work that way. There is rarely any kind of holistic approach. Add to that the AMA, which serves as a medical “union”, working hard to put down other health possibilities and crushing many fine scientists who have come up with other ways to treat specific illnesses. It goes on and on and on. On top of all of it is the fact that the US, #1 in health care costs, ranks as far down as #38 in listings of effective health delivery. (The number depends on the source, but none of them are low.)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        2,000! 2,000 is now the limit and only if directed by a doctor and you get regular labs done to see how long you need it, and check liver and kidneys. If you’ve been taking 10,000 you should most definitely tell your doctor how long, what if any other supplements taking at the same time, medications, etc. He/She should do a lab workup including testing for your liver.

        • Peter

          I’ve been doing 4000 daily for many years. No problems.

          • daisy

            No problems for you, doesn’t apply to all people.

            • Peter

              No one has ever died from taking supplements, Daisy. Can that be said of drugts?

            • daisy

              Check C.P.S.

            • Peter

              What is C.P.S. please?

            • daisy

              Comendium of pharmasutical specialties ( spelling wrong I am sure ) it is the reference book used by Dr.*s and pharmacists for information on drugs . It tell all side effects, dosages. what the drug looks like etc.

            • daisy

              Unless you don’t include liver failure. Any drug that you put in to your body has an effect and a potential to harm the user, including vitamins and most definitely supplements. Both of those things are unregulated.

            • Peter

              Thank God for that last! I’ve been doing unregulated stuff now for over 50 years and still have failed to harm myself.

              (Corrected typo.)

            • daisy

              I am very happy for you, sincerely. Just because something is ok for you doesn’t mean it ok for everybody. Some people smoke all of their lives and have no consequences, the over whelming evidence is that it is harmful.

            • Peter

              And what supplement, in particular, caused what liver failure?

            • daisy

              Any supplement that contains creatinine can do harm to the kidneys and liver. Many supplements contain them. I am not familiar with supplements enough to know brand names etc. and as the show demonstrates people mix their own . Sometimes coaches and personal trainers do this, because there is not any oversight they can put dosages etc, that may do harm. I appreciate that you may disagree, which is fine but you picked the wrong girl for a debate. I do not enjoy them. The reason I engaged you in the first place was because you were typing misinformation that others might read. I admire that you got yourself out of the mad house, but I think some of your circular logic remains or not , I never professed to be a Dr. Good luck on your journey , but this is the last response I am willing to give my time with.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Thank Meepthorp I only been doing that much for two weeks.

          Yikes!! Who knew … I shoulda prayed to Meepthorp before this documentary 🙂

        • Peter

          The very last “expert” I would trust where vitamins and minerals is concerned is a doctor, unless s/he has had additional training in naturopathy. But your choices may be different.

      • Peter

        And you trust Frontline???

        • MaxSpaceman

          Yes- mistake? I will dig deeper.

          • Peter

            I simply distrust any of the mainstream media. Your views may differ.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      So, who are you gonna listen to, those obvious SPs or Source?
      (refresh)
      https://www.instagram.com/p/_Hgmc-xTpC/?taken-by=difersaca

      • Liberated

        All that calcium-magnesium crap did a whole lot of good for Lisa McPherson.

        • Juicer77

          I was truly horrified at the extent of her dehydration, because I never realized Cal-Mag basically acts as a drying agent without sufficient liquid intake. The poor woman got turned into a concrete mummy while she was alive. Horrifying is the only word.

          • Peter

            According to the reports. she was given NO WATER! Now *that* would qualify as a “drying agent”!

            • daisy

              It was a combination of both, probably just about equal.

          • califa007

            I got instant, severe diarrhea from Cal-Mag and got C/S approval to complete the Purif without it. Probably a reaction to the magnesium (remember Milk of Magnesia?) I just refused to take it after the second day. If she had a similar reaction she certainly would be a concrete mummy.

            • Juicer77

              Good for you, refusing it after that! Yikes…

      • Juicer77

        Nothing says “put this in your body!” like poorly labeled, unidentified pills in a craft organizer.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          That’s HIGH PRICED “poorly labeled, unidentified pills in a craft organizer”! It’s a wonder what some people will do (and risk) to get a cheap CO$ certificate ain’t it? SMH

          • Juicer77

            You’re right, I wasn’t even thinking about the cost. SMH along with you!

            • Peter

              I’ve yet to hear of anyone dying or being crippled by vitamins, however. That can hardly be said of prescription drugs.

            • Juicer77

              Vitamins can do a great deal of organ and tissue damage if given in high doses. They’re no different than prescription drugs in that respect.

            • Peter

              And just who is it, Juicer, who decides? Certainly the FDA has done an extremely poor job.

            • daisy

              FDA has done a poor job. Scientology should definitely not decide. As usual it is up to the individual to be informed about what goes into their bodies.

            • Peter

              The problem is that the FDA is a government tool. It is highly influenced both politically and financially. They routinely accept “studies” from the major drug and food companies, for instance, which were instigated and paid for by those self same companies. The “results” of such studies always point to the safety of whatever it is they plan to sell. The health of the people is a far distant second to the expanding coffers of both drug and food companies. That we are now seeing stories lamenting the “dangers” of vitamins and minerals is one more ploy to keep people from keeping themselves healthy.

            • daisy

              Check C.P.S. again and get back to me.

            • Peter

              And what is C.P.S., please?

  • Susan B.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCwMfUhv24

    I couldn’t stop watching this.

    • daisy

      I once slipped on ice so bad I was down for at least 20 min. Every time I got up I wound back on my ass. Thank God I was young and skinny or I would have had to wait til spring. The friend I was with was of no use, because he was crippled laughing. Two other sweet men got me up and on my way.

      • Susan B.

        Can you ask Frodis to tell MaxSpaceman that no, my last name is not Anthony. But it does begin with the letter B. I can’t think of a clever reply. Just this boring one.

        • daisy

          I didn’t see this message until this a.m. , but I am sure asking you if your last name is Anthony is a joke in itself. The only replies I could come up with is – I go by Susan B. Tony- or I cannot tell you my last name, I am in the witness protection program- both not so clever but it is early morn here.

    • Frodis73

      I feel so bad for these people. Plus, it’s so close to the road and traffic just zooming on by. I did laugh a few times tho…but I feel guilty.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Can you ask Susan if her last name is Anthony?

        I’m too keyed out. In restim. My ‘Banky’ Goals Problem Masses

      • Susan B.

        Me too.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Restim. Can’t stop watching. Restim. “Banky” GPM keying in.

      Oh man- I’m keyed out now.

      Restim. Can’t stop. Restim. Can’t stop.

      Get me a Class XII STAT!

      • Susan B.

        Restim. Wazzat?

        • Juicer77

          (I think it’s “restimulation” of an engram. I think. I’m a never-in 😉

          • Peter

            That would be a “Bingo!”, Juicer.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Ms Anthony- restim is Hubbardspeak for

          restimulated.

          My Reactive Bank has been restimulated into coughing up regurgitating old engrams that be messin wit my mine.

          I’m all ‘Banky’ now! dadgummit — those Goals-Problems-Masses are so big my head’s the size of medicine ball.

          Yikes!!

    • madame duran

      And the person who put up the warning pylons didn’t have time to salt the ice or break it up?

      • Susan B.

        Total failure on all fronts.Do I remember correctly –was there a young woman who crossed over to the icy side if the street just to adjust the pylons? Wonder if the person holding the camera considered going down and doing something to help out.

  • LordXenuCruise

    Nice article in The Inquisitor on Jamie DeWolf apparently he has been recording a movie that will upset Davie quite a bit

  • Supper Powers
  • Intergalactic Walrus

    FYI – More on “The Pipsqueak Prometheus” article by William Blackbeard mentioned above has now been posted online: https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/william-blackbeard-pip-squeak-prometheus-some-remarks-on-the-writings-of-l-ron-hubbard/

  • Supper Powers

    I’m very sad. I’m very blue. I hope Chris and Jeffrey each put out something new.

  • FOTF2012

    Here’s an interesting cult in which the followers believe in their leader just as much as Scientologists believe in Hubbard. There are of course many — far too many — groups of this nature. Our human Achilles Heel seems to be a willingness to believe without sound evidence or even in contradiction to evidence:

    https://youtu.be/W2Cv5hZfOmk

    • Mark

      I bet the locals do a roaring trade in second-hand curtains and cheap lining-material 😉

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I wonder why he thinks that if Jesus came back in 2016 that he’d be dressed in robes? I think he’d be more evolved than those 70 year-olds who still sport the same dated beehive hairdos that were cool back when they were teenage girls. I think 2016 Jesus would shop the hell out of local Christian thrift shops and look super sharp.

        Physically, this guy resembles a Tom Petty/Eric Clapton hybrid.

        • Frodis73

          I’m so glad I checked in before heading to bed–such a great comment and if Jesus does exist, you are totally right that he would *not* be walking around in robes like that. I wish we could go ask that question in front of all his “fans”. Lol.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            This dude kinda reminds me of Rasputin.

            • Juicer77

              Yep!

      • Robert Eckert

        The cult’s biography of their leader is in flannelgraph:

        https://chellesfootprints.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/2-flannelgraph-story.jpg

  • Graham

    LEAH REMINI, AMAZON BOOK SCAM.

    My son, who lives in mainland Europe, has just sent me this message:

    “I bought the Leah Remini book for you, but unfortunately I fell victim to a scam. You may have noticed that it is difficult to find, and the US version will not ship to Europe. I found, via Amazon, an independent vendor that had it for 7 quid, and I bought it. When it arrived though it was a ‘summary book’ of 40 pages in which someone had written a summary of the main points. I checked the website again and it was sold as the full book with no mention of it being just a summary.”

    Just thought I’d post this here as a warning. The up-side is that it shows how in-demand this book is if it’s worthwhile someone trying to make scam money off it.

  • living seagull

    LRH’s history is way more interesting, albeit disturbing, than the confabulated one from the church.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Wow, this is bad! I can’t imagine any at-risk kid sitting around listening to this – Teemonee performing for CO$ front group. This makes Chilli Bean sound like Pavorotti.

    Video Caption – “Tonight, I performed my song “Purpose” at a dinner event in Pleasantville w/ an extremely talented woman on the piano. great experience. for those of you that are unaware, this is the song that I perform at the #drugfreeworld events around the city, where we speak to kids about drug abuse.” Link to video: https://www.instagram.com/p/BAoJgGSnPev/
    (refresh)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      If I had to listen to this it might make me turn to drugs!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I’m reaching for pain-killers as we speak! 🙂

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It’s like a weird version of the old Scared Straight program only in reverse!

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            Scared Wack…
            “But mom, I swear. I’d never touched drugs ’til I had to listen to that crap!”

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              But mom, I swear I’m only doing drugs, no scientology!

      • salin

        It *is* really that bad.

  • Susan B.

    The Eagles? Glen Frey? Hotel California? Take It Easy? Any fans? Did I miss the thread here? Don’t have time to scroll down. May he rest in peace.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/19/opinions/eliot-glenn-frey/

    • daisy

      Yes much discussed.

  • California

    I am one of the more law-n-order people posting here, I think, but even I know that one cannot trust the reports of the FBI back in the day. Just ask the families of John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X. And writers from the early 1950’s on were increasingly leery of the anti-intellectual political climate that later became McCarthyism and a healthy concern about how and what their “information” to the various federal agencies would be used. So they played with what information that they gave, especially if they were academics depending on the good will of universities and grantors to fund their work.

    So while I admire the diligence of someone who dug up the old records, they are being quoted here without critical thinking and historical knowledge being applied to what the FBI and other agencies were reporting at the time when they interviewed sic-fi authors, a group skeptical of what to share with the agencies. At the time, very few sci-fi authors saw Hubbard as a threat or menace but rather saw him as a boastful buffoon.

    Who I do trust are individuals who were there back in the day and talked to others that they also trusted. Who shared their knowledge with others that they trusted.

    I stand by my statements that Isaac Asimov knew Hubbard rather better than he disclosed to the FBI and Asimov shared his information with trusted others. Watching Hubbard actually begin to organize dianetics and have this entity morph into scn wa a source of fascination to those who knew Hubbard….. the guy was actually going to make money off of his scams.

    RE: the Eagles and Glen Frey. Sad, too early.

  • Mooser42001

    “and that Hubbard had told John McMaster that he intended to be reincarnated as the future son of his daughter Diana”

    And be his own Granpa!.