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Full Forrest Ackerman interview from 1997 ‘Secret Lives’ film released for first time

Forrest_Ackerman2Wow, this is a fun leak, which was brought to our attention by Jon Atack.

In 1997, Channel 4 in the UK aired an hour long documentary titled Secret Lives – L. Ron Hubbard. We’ve posted it here at the Underground Bunker in the past, and it’s long been considered one of the better documentaries about the organization and its founder. It contained interviews with key people, such as Hana Eltringham Whitfield, who captained one of Hubbard’s ships as Scientology was run from sea in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It also featured a brief interview with Forrest Ackerman, the famous science fiction promoter who was once Hubbard’s literary agent.

And now, the raw footage of Ackerman’s entire interview — most of which did not make the finished documentary — has been released. It’s a real treat!

The 25-minute interview begins with “Forry” talking about meeting Hubbard for the first time. He then relates a tale about Hubbard as a skilled stage hypnotist — something Atack has told us about numerous times.

Hubbard and hypnotism are central to Scientology, Atack tells us, but almost nothing angers Scientologists more than to tell them their “wins” are the result of hypnosis.

Ackerman also describes Hubbard chewing tobacco and spitting as he drove, and he jokes that Hubbard’s followers would love to find those places in the road where Hubbard spit so they could dig them up to worship them.

He describes Hubbard’s tale about his 1938 experience under nitrous oxide at a dental visit, which was a big turning point in Hubbard’s life, and was the event from which he dated his understanding of the concepts that would become Dianetics. (Ackerman, however, says Hubbard told him it was a war experience, and it’s hard to know if this was Ackerman’s mistake or if Hubbard changed the date of his tale himself.)

After that experience, Hubbard wrote the manuscript he called “Excalibur.” And Ackerman repeats Hubbard’s fantastic tale about the work, that anyone who read it went insane or committed suicide. Ackerman seems to give it some credence. He describes the elaborate rules Hubbard supposedly set down before a publisher could look at it. But Ackerman admits that he never knew anyone who actually read it, and he never saw it himself. (As we pointed out recently, Gerry Armstrong has read three different versions of it, and there’s a long description of it online which shows that it contains some of the early concepts of Dianetics but was mostly deadly not because it induced suicide but rather because it cured insomnia.)

As for Hubbard’s stature as a science fiction writer? “I think Ron has been blown all out of proportion as a science fiction writer,” says Ackerman, who, we’ll remind you, was his agent. Forry compares Hubbard to a couple of other writers who were known as “fiction factories.” Ackerman says Hubbard’s literary reputation rests on his short novels Final Blackout and Fear, a book Harlan Ellison told us he admired very much.

As for what Ron was like in person, Ackerman says Hubbard liked to entertain with tales that weren’t necessarily so. And that he was a legendary tightwad.

He’s asked why Dianetics was so popular, and he first points out that Los Angeles was known for its cults. Then he goes into a long story about his own memories and associations and fears that he was apparently able to bring up by following the instructions in Dianetics. And he points out that the goal of Dianetics was to get to memories from the womb.

But then, in Scientology, the point became to remember what had happened in past lives. Ackerman says it became a game of one-upmanship — you remember one past life? Well I remember three!

Ackerman was also present the night Hubbard revealed the first “Clear,” a young woman named Sonya Bianca, who put on a disastrous demonstration at the Shrine Auditorium in August 1950. “Nobody walked out, but there was a low hum of disappointment,” Ackerman says.

And finally, he’s asked about the popularity of Battlefield Earth, which he repped when it came out in 1982. Ackerman says that if the story had been serialized, it might have been fine for one of the publications of the time, but he said it was “nothing extraordinary.” He says he thought it became a bestseller for “artificial reasons.” You don’t say!

We sure wish Forry was still around. He was a great interview…

 

 
——————–

Bonus photos from our tipsters

Hey, hardy adventurers, the Anchorage mission is hiring!

 
SciAlaska

 
Narconon Colombia’s executive director, Maria Gilma León, got herself superpowered!

 
SciColombia

 
Scientologists are using social media more than ever. Drop us a line if you spot them posting images to Instagram or Facebook!

 
——————–

OUR COUNTDOWNS

16 days until Alex Gibney’s film Going Clear: Scientology & the Prison of Belief opens at the Sundance Film Festival at 2:30 pm on Sunday, January 25 in Park City, Utah

3 days until our special Underground Bunker announcement at noon, January 12

 
Posted by Tony Ortega on January 9, 2015 at 13:10

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

 

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  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    Near Haynes in south-eastern Alaska, along the Chilkat River, there are five runs of the five main Pacific salmon species each year. These runs begin in early Summer. The last salmon run is somewhere around mid-October to November.
    Three thousand or more bald eagles from Alaska, the Yukon and British Columbia gather along the Chilkat Flats for that final run. Called the Fall Congregation, it is one of North America’s truly extraordinary natural phenomena and the greatest concentration of these beautiful birds on earth.

    On days like this in the Bunker, I feel as though we are akin to those raptors, gathering to witness the final run of Hubbard’s spawn.
    Unlike the salmon, enough of which survive the eagle gauntlet to breed, it feels as though this species we watch, the strange evolutionary cul-de-sac that would be Homo Novis, is condemned to join the mammoth, the dodo and the brontosaurus as an historical footnote.

    Clear Craigslist of their lies:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml#
    TICK TOCK

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    “(Ackermah, however, says Hubbard told him it was a war experience, and
    it’s hard to know if was Ackerman’s mistake or if Hubbard changed the
    date of his tale himself.)”

    “As for Hubbard’s stature as a science fiction writeer?”

    “We sure with Forry was still around.”

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Got coffee ready, appropriate background music ready, and probably will be humming “hum of disappointment at the fiction factory” all day.

    http://youtu.be/l1jzfaNxxr4

  • I MUST go do some housework in the kitchen, but I look forward to watching this later!! What a great day! Two posts, one with a vid to watch, up vote winner on dlisted and I got a squeal worthy unexpected book today in the mail! AND the sun is out!! (though it’s still below zero)

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    4E was a hoot. He is sorely missed.

  • i-Betty

    “Ackerman also describes Hubbard chewing tobacco and spitting as he drove, and he jokes that Hubbard’s followers would love to find those places in the road where Hubbard spit so they could dig them up to worship them.”

    Farewell, cheese sandwich.

    F5

    • Barbara Angel

      This one is a stunner, it’s making me hungry tho’.
      Thanks for one of the best laughs today.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I couldn’t help suspect that Ackerman’s “chance” meet up with Hubbard in a second hand bookshop, seemingly ready with a sci fi story plot on the spot – might have been – like so many of Hubbard’s ploys – not by chance at all. Wouldn’t that be just like the old cur.

    Looking around Ackerman’s living room, if that’s where it is – I can only hope this is now an open tour museum. There are such treasures in every nook and cranny, including Bela Lugosi just sitting around on the floor.

    Forrest talks like he writes. What fun. There are so many delicious descriptions in this interview and it’s stuffed with larger than life characters of such a fascinating history line. Thank you, Forrest and Jon alike. I wish I’d heard this years ago. I wish we all had heard this years ago. Perspective is everything, isn’t it?

    Under the spell until clam on the shell – Who knew this was the way out?

    Thank you, “Keeping.Skepticism.Working” – I snorked when I noticed that!

    http://youtu.be/47Lh7QHBFjg

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Another interview, the one done in 1968 that was edited down to the TV show, Granada Production, World Inn Action show of Hubbard himself, I wish the whole film, all that got cut out, were issued!

      The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

    • Captain Howdy

      It was a museum while he was still alive. After his death it was auctioned off with Peter Jackson and a few others buying the lion’s share. It was estimated to be worth millions.

      There’s a slew of vids about it on youtube.

      http://youtu.be/5WFRsm0-PTc

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thanks. Yikes, I remember you telling me this now, but never got to the vids.

    • aegerprimo

      I think Forrest Ackerman collected sci-fi memorabilia. I wonder too if there is a museum of it somewhere. It would be a fantastic place to visit!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        See Cap’n. Now that’s a museum. Hmmmm. I wonder if Hubbard stole the idea of Cat People (races of thetans, PDC tapes) from the movie, Cat People, Simone Simon.

  • Jimmy3

    In my past life, the past lives I remembered were three times better than any of the past lives you could remember in your last three past lives.

    • i-Betty

      Try saying that three times, quickly 🙂

      • Jimmy3

        Switched for some semblance of symmetry.

      • Minion Gayle

        No thanks. I’d rather keep my tongue in it’s unknotted state.

    • noseinabk

      Phhft. Amateur! Bet you cant remember choking on that grain of sand while making pearls!

      • Jimmy3

        Of course I remember that. My jaw still hurts today.

        • Observer

          Snap! Snap! Snap!

          • i-Betty

            Ha!

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Ooh. My jaw.

        • KingofSweden

          I have sand in my mouth right now.

  • Observer

    I got the feeling he was soft-pedaling his recollections a bit, but that was fascinating. Ron the deadbeat.

  • Snake Plissken

    Hubbard died on the operating table and in the afterlife he ran across an intellectual smorgasbord, but choose to ignore it because it would have interfered with his calling in life … which was to be a conman.

    • BosonStark

      Or, he ate the entire smorgasbord but then just threw up.

      • Observer

        Or he thought it was a smorgasbord but it was the slop trough of his own sick mind.

        • Snake Plissken

          If Hubbard ran across the cure for cancer, the first and only thought that would enter his mind is … “How can I fuck people out of their money with this information?”

      • romanesco

        That’s why Scientology is vomit.

    • Hubbard told versions of that story to a number of people. I wonder if the year matches in any of them?

  • i-Betty

    I’m only up to the 6th minute but, boy, this guy can weave a great story. He has what I think of as a real old-world American accent. I love it.

  • Ardent

    Just arrived in a hurry. Thanks Tony for putting this up. I can’t stay right now, but I’ll watch later! Cheers.

  • Stacy

    This is absolutely fascinating. Tony, do you know if Mr. Ackerman believed Hubbard’s story about his “Excalibur” experience and the danger of the script? He tells the story without any sort of qualifiers, which you might expect from someone who is reflecting back on a past experience that they put no stock in. He indicates he thought LRH believed it, but I wonder if he personally thought he was being fed a story or not.

  • BosonStark

    Fascinating interview although disappointing he couldn’t remember if Hubbard was there — he was — for the demonstration of the Clear at Shrine.

    • Observer

      That’s one of the moments when I thought he might be letting Ron off easy.

      • There’s no way Hubbard wouldn’t be in the spotlight when he was showing off his first Clear.

        He probably felt embarrassed for Hubbard. Someone had to, because I doubt Hubbard did.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          It was a long time ago and I am sure that any association with Hubbard is an embarrassment. People often colour their memories to make them look their best. This might apply to some of FJA’s comments.

  • Graham

    Ron the record breaking glider pilot. The Scamatologists seem to have missed that one?

    • noseinabk
      • noseinabk

        http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/02/scientology-mythbusting-with-jon-atack-that-new-l-ron-hubbard-ad/

        And was a pioneer at the dawn of American aviation

        ‘Flash’ Hubbard the ‘barnstorming’ pilot. He had a license for gliders. Not quite the dawn of aviation, though. This is after World War I, when there were a lot of returning pilots and a lot of planes were being off loaded, as military forces stood down all over the world for a few brief years. I feel that I must add a caution, I have come to see Hubbard as physically cowardly, so it is surprising that he would risk being aloft in a rig of wire, canvas and glue. And he proved how easy it is to create documents (including the forged check he tried to pass in San Luis Obispo as a young man). There is a photo of Hubbard wearing a row of medals. When analysed, he proves to be wearing medals that he did not receive, or even claim to have received. Prop photos are so easily made. He made them all his life.

        • Most of the printed reports of Hubbard’s flying daring-do smell a lot like his own work under another name.

          Hubbard had plenty of opportunities and money to get his full pilots license later on, and yet never did.

          • Draco

            He was too busy piloting the Sea Org into the abyss!

          • Anonymous

            Hubbard’s “pilots license” that the old Guardian’s Office (and now the Office of Special Affairs) folks show in Ron Mags and other church published propaganda is the same Student Pilot Certificate that any 16 year-old English speaking American can obtain in one day by getting a very simple third-class medical exam from an FAA authorized doctor. The Student Pilot Certificate is actually issued by the same doctor that does the third-class exam and that exam can be completed in less than an hour.

            With all the hoopla the church likes to make about Hubbard’s vast abilities, it is a bit disappointing to see how trivial (and overblown) was one of his purported “accomplishments.” Chances are that 90% of the people reading this blog could get a Student Pilot Certificate next Monday or Tuesday if they chose to do so.

            It is sort of like somebody opening the front door, walking outside, and claiming they “went exterior.”

            Heh.

            • Missionary Kid

              Of course, there’s no logbook, which would have been mandatory to prove experience.
              That is in spite of the fact that LRH was somewhat of a pack rat.

            • Anonymous

              The claims by Hubbard were huge…the documentation extremely sparse.

              Speaking of “show me a $%^#@ Clear”…how about show me the written records from just ONE of the 200+ “case studies” that Hubbard claimed led to claims in the book “Dianetics.”

              Oops….those records were “stolen.”

              Sure Ron…we believe you.

            • Dr_Orpheus

              I remember an online Scientologist several years ago claiming that Ron’s research journals were being published by the church. I guess they got so caught up with the Basics, GAT II, and Superpowers that the research journals were forgotten.

            • Anonymous

              The old “Research and Discovery” series that purported to document ever word ever written or spoken by Hubbard about Dianetics and Scientology, in chronological order, mysteriously vanished after less than a dozen volumes.

              Publishing such a work would have created several problems:

              1) The contradictions in the “tech” and “policy” would have been both apparent and easily cross-referenced

              2) The continuous bait-and-switch between the promises for the tech and the actual results delivered would become more obvious

              3) The major contributions of others to the development of the “tech” would have been impossible to conceal

              4) The continuous departure of key contributors from Scientology throughout the history of the organization would have been very well documented

              5) Future revisions and resale / retread opportunities (like GAT I, GAT II, etc.) would have been harder to justify. Tech and policy are immutable, or they are not.

              In fact, nothing is more likely to reveal the scam of Scientology than a full and accurate publication of all of the materials of the subject in chronological order. It might be amusing for some, but mostly it would be devastating to the ability of the organization to tell constantly morphing, serial lies as expediency requires.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m wondering if anyone still has a copy. That would be golden.

            • Anonymous

              There is always eBay…all sorts of detritus eventually shows up there…here is one of the volumes in a current listing:

              http://www.ebay.com/itm/Research-Discovery-Series-Scientology-1-June-7-17-1950-L-Ron-Hubbard-Book-/131376568891?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e96a75a3b

            • Missionary Kid

              Only 1 person is watching. How many volumes were there?

            • Anonymous

              I’m not entirely certain but believe there were approximately 12 volumes completed when the rug was pulled out from under the project….

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. There’s no way that I’d buy any of them at about $45 each. If it was real cheap, I’d donate it to Tony or anyone else that needs it.

              If someone gave them to me, I’d pay postage.

            • Anonymous

              Agreed.

              Chances are eventually a whole set will show up on eBay and the whole load (and I do mean load) could be picked up for 50 dollars.

              BTW – upon further review it appears there may have actually been ~16 volumes before the plug was pulled…

            • Missionary Kid

              Shipping will probably be as much as the cost of the drek.

            • Stacy

              I’ve missed your posts over the past few days. Glad to see you’re back in style! I don’t know if it was just a timing issue, and you were here. Whatever, I always appreciate your posts Anonymous.

            • Anonymous

              Was busy with relatives etc…thanks for the welcome back!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Similar to L.R. Hubbard’s Special Officer badge. I wonder if he gave badges out to his Loyal Officers? This is the only place I’ve ever seen L.R. instead of L. Ron. Was this so the cops wouldn’t look his name up and find his list of shenanigans?

              http://i.imgur.com/hM7E5fo.png?3

            • Anonymous

              Hubbard, who constantly bad mouth anything that did not have the imprimatur of his “tech” or “policy” in his Scientology drivel, was simultaneously always seeking to bolster his own image with forged stationary, weird badges (like the above) dubious military medals, bogus degrees, fake navies, his Explorer’s Club membership, “Keys to the City” etc.

              It must have been incredibly sad to be Hubbard…he was just so desperate for credibility…but unwilling to do the heavy lifting in real life to actually earn that credibility.

            • Lionel Drinkwater
            • Observer

              Apple, or nut?

            • Graham

              Rotten to the core.

            • Anonymous

              That uniform jacket must weight about 55 pounds with all those medals and braid.

              Hip hip hooray!

            • What Scientology glosses over is that all licenses for private armed security guards were handed out by the police in those days. Other than that, there is no real connection to the LAPD. He was a private dick with a gun, not a cop.

              (Heh, I had a typo: primate armed security guards. Close enough, I guess.)

            • Observer

              He looks like some weird bobblehead.

            • Missionary Kid

              if I remember my history of the LAPD, the force hadn’t been reformed as a result of Chief Parker, who became chief in 1950. Cards like that were probably given as political favors revoked with the reform when Parker took over.

              As far as I can see, this card expires at the end of 1948. I doubt if he ever got another one, since he had a talent of taking advantage of favors done.

            • Stacy

              What kills me about this is CoS claims his “special officer” status on their Criminon website, touting it as evidence of LRH working hand in hand with LAPD, probably stating he was catching criminals through Dianetics, singlehandedly, for them. Very irksome.

            • Missionary Kid

              As usual, they take a little item and blow it up by orders of magnitude. It’s only good for one year, and at the time, I’m willing to bet that it’s one of those PR certificates handed out.

            • Observer

              What I’m waiting to see is if Ron is still touted as the youngest Eagle Scout ever at 13 since now an 11-year-old has become one. Will they drop it, will new “information” be “discovered” claiming LRH was born an Eagle Scout, or will they just ignore the usurper altogether?

            • Anonymous

              Maybe they will Fair Game the 11 year old into a retraction?

            • Missionary Kid

              If nothing else, they’ll add, “youngest Eagle Scout at the time.” If they even bother.

            • Stacy

              I vote for “born an Eagle Scout.”

              You know they’ll go there.

            • beauty for ashes

              Oh this makes me happy! I think that 11 year old deserves an extra medal for this!

            • Destructor of Worlds

              LRH was born from Eaglescouts that were raised by Eagles themselves.

              http://usscouts.org/profbvr/scoutfiction/eaglescout.bmp

            • Stacy

              “It is sort of like somebody opening the front door, walking outside, and claiming they “went exterior.”
              Nice! 🙂

            • Anonymous

              Is is soooo OT!

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for highlighting it. I put the last two paragraphs on a list about LRH.

            • Missionary Kid

              Anon, thanks to Stacy, I’m adding the last two paragraphs at the bottom (newest) of the list of the GROUPED STATEMENTS ABOUT LRH that’s on the list of THINGS SAID ABOUT LRH http://tonyortega.org/2015/01/01/happy-new-year-2015-now-the-real-scientology-countdown-begins/#comment-1770021246

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Speaking of Time Machines for the Birds, RIP Rod Taylor. And thank you for every single piece.

    http://news-briefs.ew.com/2015/01/08/rod-taylor-dies/
    http://i.imgur.com/EHObCW8.jpg?1

    • Spackle Motion

      I had such a crush on Rod Taylor when I was a kid. He was one of my favorite actors. I have some serious sads today.

  • ze moo

    Mr. Ackerman properly places Lroon in the cheap, penny a word, conman, 3rd rate writer category. Lroon had to go into the faith healing business. By 1950, the stars of Sci-fi were getting printed and Lroon couldn’t compete with them.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      In the Who Knew? department – You too can write your own Excalibur tall tale! Next time you’re scheduled for surgery, ask the Surgical Team Chief to throw in a little dose of some of that ketamine juice:

      “Dr. Karl Jansen has reproduced NDEs with ketamine, a short-acting hallucinogenic, dissociative anaesthetic.

      The anaesthesia is the result of the patient being so ‘dissociated’ and ‘removed from their body’ that it is possible to carry out surgical procedures. This is wholly different from the ‘unconsciousness’ produced by conventional anesthetics, although ketamine is also an excellent analgesic (pain killer) by a different route (i.e. not due to dissociation). Ketamine is related to phencyclidine (PCP). Both drugs are arylcyclohexylamines – they are not opioids and are not related to LSD. In contrast to PCP, ketamine is relatively safe, is much shorter acting, is an uncontrolled drug in most countries, and remains in use as an anaesthetic for children in industrialised countries and all ages in the third world as it is cheap and easy to use. Anaesthetists prevent patients from having NDE’s (’emergence phenomena’) by the co-administration of sedatives which produce ‘true’ unconsciousness rather than dissociation.*”

      http://www.skepdic.com/nde.html

  • i-Betty

    Pardon? Every person who read Excalibur either committed suicide or went insane? GUFFAW!

    Oh, there’s a shock: when a real human actually wanted to shop the manuscript around Ron developed an instant attack of ‘coy’.

    And listening to the newspaper advertisement you begin to understand quite what an ad man he was. He could really create an air of hype and mystique, the wily old bastard. With his ability to lie on a magnificent scale he would have made a great PR person.

    • Jimmy3

      “Some day I’ll get around to writing that!” *laughter*

      • Seriously, though – the longer I follow Scientology the more I begin to see the possibilities for a book of short stories. They would be loosely based on the real experiences of Scientologists, and set in different periods of the ‘church’s’ development.

        Themes of manipulation, self-deception, betrayal and (black) humour would emerge naturally from the subject matter.

    • Draco

      And he hyped up the OT levels (especially ot3) the same way. Giving it that air of danger and only the true of heart would survive it. When I read the Xenu story online I was just SO HAPPY that I had never paid good money to read that in an org. I really could not understand how anybody carried on with scn after reading that.

      • i-Betty

        Time to fire up a couple of funnies from earlier today (thanks Stacy and Sid): F5

        • Draco

          That looks about right! 😀

    • I suspect that Hubbard’s original plan was to hype up “Excalibur”, sell a very few (custom made) copies at very high prices indeed, then leg it before the customers actually read the thing.

      However, after he failed to get this scheme off the ground, Hubbard some of his stories to John W Campbell (the editor of “Astounding Science Fiction”). When he learned that Campbell was prone to falling for daft fringe ideas, he recycled the ideas in “Excalibur”, and persuaded Campbell that:

      1) They represented a revolutionary new science
      2) Promoting this ‘new science’ in “Astounding” would boost the magazine’s circulation

      Hubbard and Campbell then recruited a small group of credulous enthusiasts which including one Dr Winter (for credibility) and someone who owned a business which published academic books.

      After a dry run in “The Explorers Journal” http://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/terra-incognita-the-mind-l-ron-hubbards-prototype-for-dianetics-and-scientology/ Hubbard wrote the ordure that is “Dianetics” and unexpectedly came up smelling of roses when (thanks to Campbell’s promotion in “Astounding”) it sold far more copies than anyone had expected an kicked of a (mercifully short-lived) national fad.

      Perhaps, in some lucky alternative universe, Hubbard did manage to sell a few copies of “Excalibur” for big money, had to go into hiding at the beginning of his career instead of the end, and “Dianetics” was never published.

  • Serials back in the day usually ran four months and came out as paperbacks around 95 pages. If Battlefield Earth had been serialized for one of the magazines of the day, it would have taken years to publish it–And the Mission Earth series would still be going.

    • Draco

      Mission Earth would not have survived such serialization. After reading the first book, which I bought, I was like WTF? I borrowed the rest and waded through them, as a dedicated little cultist, but never could say that I enjoyed them. Even then, I felt that the only reason it was made into 10 books was to get more sales and money. The whole thing could easily have been distilled into one book.
      My point is, people who weren’t scientologists would not bother to read all that crap and would have let the relevant editors know they were publishing garbage.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Despite the “barnstorming pilot” spiel that $cientology circulates about the Turd of Tilden,
    I have always felt that glider pilot was an utterly appropriate metaphor for his entire vainglorious
    existence.
    All the hard lifting gets done by others while he floats around powerless, looking down on others.

    • Observer

      … kept aloft by his own windy bloviation

      • Sid

        … and propped up by the vapid adulation of his hypnotized minions.

  • Mark

    Fascinating stuff! By the way, I used to be an avid reader of Forrie Ackermann’s Famous Monsters of Filmland; I found this rather unusual edition of it at a jumble-sale years ago (refresh):

    • sugarplumfairy

      Wow! Photos of body thetans! Who knew? Do they look like microscopic dust mites? Or paramecium maybe? Dammmm.. Now I really wanna see one…

      • Draco

        Paging Mark…please post the photos of the body thetans. Sugarplumfairy REALLY wants to see one!

        • Mark

          Refresh:

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. Exactly as I’d always imagined!!!

          • Draco

            Thanks Mark! He looks a tad disgruntled about being evicted after 75 million years. I see he is in the valence of a Sultan…or is that a Sultana?

            • Mark

              A potential raisin, or possibly Château d’Yquem before processing.

            • Draco

              Cheers! I’ll go for the Château d’Yquem!
              I’m off to bed folks – see you all tomorrow – one day closer to the big reveal 🙂

          • i-Betty

            That is literally gorgeous 😀

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Found it! It’s from the Internetz, so it must be true.
            http://i.imgur.com/nXsyjri.jpg

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              If those are Body Thetans, sign me up!

            • Stacy

              I’m not really sure why, but this pic creeps me out.

            • Ella Raitch

              Awwww – now who’d want to get rid of those – more cuties than cooties.

            • ShoopZ

              Ha! The French Bunny-Thetans! I made one of my earliest sci-shoops using them. (refresh)

            • i-Betty

              You are a genius. See how your work lives on? 🙂

            • Pepper

              Now she can get group rates on theater tickets!

    • Captain Howdy

      If it wasn’t for Famous Monsters, Marvel, Playboy and Creem magazine, Captain Howdy would have offed himself when he was an adolescent..Thanks For the Memories, Forry.

    • I saw that issue at Cherokee’s Bookstore on Hollywood Blvd. Back in the 70’s..or might had been effect at that joint I had.

    • Observer

      refresh

      • Mark

        What’s that sepulchral noise I hear? It’s 4-E snickering from the grave! Now you’ve got me wishing I’d picked Lon Chaney Jr.—or is it Oliver Reed?—either of whose faces were rounder than Vincent Price’s 😉

        • Observer

          I did this one for Howdy a few months back. I’d forgotten about it until just now.

          EDIT: I couldn’t pass it up–ginger wolfmen are few and far between!

          • richelieu jr

            ‘Flim-Flamland’ is what prefer above all else. Nice find!

        • Captain Howdy

          Oliver Reed

          Here’s a link for future shoop masterpieces.

          http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/famous-monsters-of-filmland

  • Science Doc

    I don’t know anything about Tony’s book, but here are brief descriptions of three books I’d like to read:

    1. Scientology: The Miscavige Years. Mission Holders’ Conference and death of Ron to the present. Tony has great sources, but Miscavige himself is resistant to a traditional biography (no writings, almost no interviews, etc.), so Scientology as an expression of Miscavige’s character. Disconnection, fair-gaming, IAS, squirrel busting, the Hole. Russell Miller wrote a great bio on Hubbard, and Source has been dead for nearly 30 years. Miscavige is the guy.

    2. Narconon: The Great Addiction Treatment Fraud. Tony drops hints that he knows plenty of stuff that doesn’t make the blog, as well he must. There are hundreds of victims with stories to tell, and enough of it is in court documents to make the story litigation proof. A lot of people have been affected by addiction or some sort of fraud. Narconon is a scandal hiding in plain sight.

    3. Project Celebrity: Scientology and the Hollywood Elite. Many of Cruise’s key contacts in Scientology have blown. Tony has sources from the Cruise-Kidman household. Tony easily refutes much of the bogus reporting on celebrities. I personally don’t find celebrities like Cruise and Travolta as interesting as Narconon, but if I was a book publisher I would think differently.

    Anyhow, not predictions, but three books that could be written by Tony and almost no one else, and books I would like to read. As Tony is an investigative journalist, anything he does could very likely have scrupulously researched bombshells like the Duggan story, and a few of these would be real exciting.

    • Jimmy3

      Marry #1, hookup with #2, kill #3.

    • There is no point in covering ground that has already been ploughed out by other authors, and Tony is well placed to bring the story of Scientology up to date – so I’m already sold on his upcoming book.

      The book I would like to see him go on to write, after this one, is:”The Fall of Scientology vol2: Aftermath”.

      At that time, he would:

      1) Have access to documents salvaged from abandoned Orgs, bankruptcy sales, and raids by government agents and police which have been recovered and archived by Scientology-watchers
      2) Be able to interview recovering CofS ‘executives’ and members who were privy to events which are now most secret.

      It now seems clear that such a book will be written one day, by somebody. The only question is how soon.

      • Science Doc

        yep. We’ve got to get there first. Assuming Monday’s Bunker Announcement is Tony’s book, it will publish a few weeks later. That puts it near March 16. Sounds like synergy.

        • We do indeed – but I can’t help wondering how the post-Scientology world is going to develop.

          As for the book – tt takes about a year to go from finished manuscript to (paper) book so, one way or another, this is an ideal time for copies to become available. Nicely times.

          One the other hand, perhaps it’s the obscure ‘big event’ Marty Rathburn promised for 2015… I hope it’s the book.

  • i-Betty

    Grumble. Having learned how to post a link in Reddit yesterday, Gary Cardone has taken the video of them ‘having fun the Cardone way’ with their mother (but not the firework one, interestingly, so Grant is obviously proud of that one), and I’ve discovered that I can’t simply replace the link. We hope to have a mirrored copy shortly, so if I create a new Reddit link please can I ask all of you with accounts to upvote it again? I’ll keep you posted.

    Thank you very much 🙂

    • glad there’s a mirrored copy!!

      • i-Betty

        I’m touching wood, Tia! I’ve not heard back from Brian yet. Fingers crossed.

        • I totally forget i have the add on to d/l youtube vids! UGH!! If you have a PC (not sure about mobile devices) firefox has an add on for youtube where you can d/l the video–you can also just d/l the audio as a mp3 file too, which is what i got it for! 🙂

          • i-Betty

            Did you see that we got hold of 2 mirrors, which have now multiplied several times over? 😀

            • no, i did not see that as i wasn’t online!! 😀 and i’m responding to this via dissucks and not on the bunker….i’ll wander over there before bed!

            • and duh—pills kicking in—HOORAY for mirrors!! 😀

            • i-Betty

              Hooray! For without them my red lipstick would look shocking! Heh x

            • 😀

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Rats. I was going to download that one today.

    • It’s on Daily Motion too and the Roman Candle one which I have downloaded and are on discs.

      • i-Betty

        You rock!

  • Lionel Drinkwater

    L. Ron Hubbard was a legendary tightwad. So is his Church, e.g. the Church stiffed two pizza guys on the tip after they delivered 180 pizzas.

    Ray and Pam Kemp’s account from Madman or Messiah:

    “It was also typical of him [Hubbard] that he stiffed us for the rent and he stiffed the greengrocer. Before they moved in, the greengrocer on the other side of the road asked us if he could trust the new tenants and we said ‘Of course.’ Ron proceeded to run up a huge bill which he never paid. And he never paid us any rent. We asked him dozens of times for the money. He told us to ask Mary Sue and she always said they didn’t have any money.

    ‘Then one day Ron came over on his motorcycle, very excited and pleased with himself. He said, “Guess what I’ve done?”‘

    The Kemps were dumbfounded by their friend’s news. He announced that he had bought the Maharajah of Jaipur’s estate in Sussex.

    • Jimmy3

      Isn’t that from Bare-faced Messiah?

      • Missionary Kid

        It says so on the 4th line.

        • Jimmy3

          Oh, it does?

          • Frank Lee

            But of course, that is a “discrepancy”, right?

            • Jimmy3

              I notice you using that word a lot when you reply to me, as if you think I’ve said that to you before. I think you’re confused.

            • Lucille Austero

              Jimmy3, to you I would like to say: Discrepancy.

            • Lucille Austero

              Frank, I have a website you might find, shall we say, interesting:

              http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html

            • flyonthewall

              I think Jimmy is trying to gaslight you Frank

            • Frank Lee

              It has gone on for over a year and I generally ignored it. To be called a liar over and over about something the other knows nothing about gets really old. In Texas we have a saying “Let sleeping dogs lie”, because if you kick them often enough you will get bitten. The last few days, I’ve been ready to bite back!

            • Lucille Austero

              Frank, are you wearing this? It might help:

              http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

            • Lucille Austero

              Also, Frank, there is a form for just such a time as this. Just fill it out and submit it:

          • Missionary Kid

            Oops. You’re right. It cites two possible sources.

      • Lionel Drinkwater

        Bare-Faced Messiah; Madman or Messiah; Commodore or Cosmonaut; Messiah with Power Steering. I get the titles confused.

        What I do know is that cell phone bills are overpriced and I prefer to use a telex or a teleprinter.

        • Science Doc

          Douchebag with Leather Trim

          • Lionel Drinkwater

            There is no need to insult Grant Cardone.

            • Lucille Austero

              There is totally ALWAYS

            • Missionary Kid

              Cardone IS an insult to the human race.

    • flyonthewall

      Aren’t you the guy whose island Miscavige was seeking asylum in? I read about it on a very reputable website. How’s that going by the way?

      • Lionel Drinkwater

        Captain Miscavige is indeed seeking asylum on Drinkwater Island: https://otviiisgrrr8.wordpress.com/2014/12/31/captain-miscavige-seeks-asylum-on-drinkwater-island/

        The Captain’s application is under review by our Board of Directors.

        However, as Director Andrew Robertson pointed out to Captain Miscavige, “…there is one small stumbling block. As you might be aware from your knowledge of the history of Polynesia, is that Drinkwater was once a territory of France’s colonial empire and a royal fief, forming part of the Bailiwick of Tahiti, with its own set of laws based on Norman law and its own parliament.”

        “However we are still subject to adhering to certain rules of the Fifth Republic, namely that any asylum seekers be of good character and both they and any organization they represent have had no criminal convictions in France or its associated overseas territories.”

        “I have no doubt that you will be able to furnish me with such notarized proof from your legal agents and once received will ensure that your application be processed swiftly.”

        Captain Miscavige and his legal agents are working on Director Robertson’s request for notarized proof.

        • flyonthewall

          Mr. Drinkwater, If I may offer you a bit of advise. It would be prudent in dealing with the Captain, to exercise extreme caution. I have it on good authority that he is a scoundrel of the highest order and is not to be trusted. Furthermore, he is of inferior stock and his personal hygiene leaves much to be desired. Even the mere appearance of association with him could cause your reputation great harm.

  • Anonymous

    “…I never quite put Ron [Hubbard] on the pedestal that his followers do. I don’t consider him in the same league as Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke or Ray Bradbury or [Robert] Heinlein or [A. E.] van Vogt… just an adequate page filler with an occassional flash of brillaince…”

    The above is a quote from the 1997 video interview with Forrest Ackerman, L. Ron Hubbard’s long time literary agent.

    I’m going out on a limb to guess that this quote won’t ever show up in a “Ron Mag” or in any of the promotional sales literature from Author Services Inc. Heh.

    • “[…] an adequate page filler with an occasional flash of brilliance” is one of Hubbard’s best reviews.

      Two excellent literary histories of Science Fiction, one classic from 1961 (“New Maps of Hell” by Kingsley Amis) and the other from 2005 (“The History of Science Fiction” by Adam Roberts) both discuss Hubbard, but don’t mention his stories at all.

      Amis describes Hubbard as one of, “the cranks, who seem bent on giving science fiction a bad name”, and Roberts describes Hubbard’s, “malign influence”, and discusses the, “banality and cliché” of “the sub-pulp adventures” which make up Scientology.

      Finally, L. Sprague de Camp ( a respected writer of SF and fantasy) examined Hubbard’s stories in an article entitled “El-Ron and the City of Brass” in the August 976 edition of “Fantastic” magazine – and didn’t think much of them, either.

      Hubbard just made a living writing for the pulps, but would simply not good enough (and too careless) to make the transition to books after the pulp market collapsed (as the best of his contemporaries did). Of course, we will never know for sure, because, by the time the pulps folded, he had abandoned fiction for Dianetics and Scientology. However, the awful mess that is “Mission Earth” certainly supports this proposition.

      The full quotes from both books, and the complete magazine article are here http://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/l-ron-hubbard-literary-genius-or-hack/

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      We in the Stratospheric Glider Pilots Association never thought much of his aviation writing either. It was all balderdash.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Welcome Lionel..What a distinguished gentleman you are. We need some class around this joint.

  • nottrue

    …Scientology hurts….http://youtu.be/SPtCoGjdC8I

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I love this one, even though it makes my eyes water and my heart itch. I’m allergic to scientology now.

    • Unex Skcus

      Says everything you need to know about Co$ in 60 seconds.

  • Tony Ortega

    Scientology Alaska flier added to the post

    • Snake Plissken

      “Scientology Alaska” … you no longer need to go to Siberia to experience a Sub Zero Labor Camp

  • Frank Lee

    “not because it induced suicide but rather because it cured insomnia” – Loved this line Tony!

  • kemist

    The Alaska flier is oddly… accurate.

    I’ve once seen this picture with the caption : “Sometimes a great journey ends very badly.”

    • Sid

      It must have been written by Tommy Davis, “right here, right now”.

  • Sid

    So if Excalibur never really killed anyone, and nobody died of pneumonia from OT III, then aside from breaking up families, bankrupting individuals and companies, lying, harassing, intimidating people, and conning whoever they can, then what’s the problem?

    • Snake Plissken

      I read the Time Magazine Article that discussed OT III in 1991 and got the flu in 2008

      • Sid

        Whatever you do don’t read Excalibur. In 2032 you might catch cold.

        • Snake Plissken

          That’s what I’m afraid of , I’d hate to be 90 years old someday and suddenly wake up one morning with pneumonia.

          • Sid

            Maybe if you read one page per year until then you’ll build up an immunity.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Come to think of it, ever since I’ve read my Declare, I haven’t had a single cold since. True fax.

            • Sid

              It could be the universal antidote. We should all have one.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Next time our Big Pharma rep drops by with my check, I’ll ask him to hit Bob Duggan up for a few billion to mass market them.

            • Jenny Daniels

              That explains it. As I was no one within the crutch, I never received my declare even though I sued them.
              NO WONDER I still catch colds!

  • That fish jumping in to the jaws of the bear, that’s not a shoop? These fucking insane criminals really are using that to sell their frauds with? Seriously?

    If so, how ironic.

    • Innoculated

      Yes, salmon swimming upstream into bear’s mouth. So who is the new recruit? The bear eating the fish or the fish being eaten by the bear?

      • Stacy

        I just posted the same question, innoculated. Pretty stupid ad.

      • Come to Alaska, where you can quickly become a smelly heap of bear poop.

  • just for the lulz

    • Spackle Motion

      The not-so-funny part of this Blind Item is that bariatric bypass surgery is NOT a guarantee that the weight won’t come back. In fact, it is the opposite. With a smaller stomach/digestive system, one will over-eat in a shorter period of time and will still be hungry shortly thereafter.

      Alcohol is also problematic for bariatric surgery patients because of the shorter digestive tract to metabolize booze. I’ve seen a few of these patients lose considerable weight only to put it back on once their weight loss hits a plateau.

  • anoni81b4u

    Stupidology is offering a job. to send you 2,500 miles to do it. What is wrong with all of the hundreds of thousands of Alaskans who are trying to get into stupidology? With straight up and verticle 47X expansion, and there isn’t one person in Alaska who is willing to do this job? … LMAO @ SHRINKING CULT

    • anoni81b4u

      They forgot to mention body routing in 18 below zero weather for $50 a week .. where do I sign up?

      • Sid

        Maybe $12 per week at a mission.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    What is this? Miscavige’s GATII version of TR’s – instead of “Do fish swim?”, it’s “Do fish jump?”

    http://i.imgur.com/J1DkTzE.jpg

    • Panopea Abrupta

      After Alec Gibney and HBO are done with him, the GAFFE III version will be
      “Do whales blow?”

      “Thar she blows, Cap’n!”

      • Pierrot

        Beautiful picture!

        • I wouldn’t want to be the last whale left in Scientology.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THSY7-CxKnQ

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Sounds like an OT 8 success story – delivered at the Toastmaster’s club.

          • Baby Mcgee

            The Bigger they are the Harder they FLOP..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yessss!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Clearly, they are delivering the jokes ready made. I cannot improve on this…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I know, right? It’s easier for me to push aside the fact they are mentally being pushed into these disorders, but when they bring the lulz, I can’t help but enjoy such dishes.

    • Stacy

      It’s really hard to determine which part CoS sees as the “feet first” opportunity. Leaping into the bear’s jaws? Being the bear about to eat up the fish? Neither really fits with the caption at all.

      It’s basically a new low for CoS advertising. I’m calling it moronic. I’m not feeling very nice today.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This looks like a local piece. So all two staff must be on 24 hour schedules. I can almost gauge the slow mental shutdown by the fliers.

        • Stacy

          Doesn’t CoS look over the proposed ads from the missions and various Orgs? Given DM’s obsession with controlling everything, I really thought such oversight would occur. You’re right about the exhaustion and damage level of the local sci’s in Alaska, which means my “moronic” is a bit harsh. However, if there’s some kind of oversight, then some moron exec let this little gem through. If that’s the case, I stand by “moronic.”

      • aegerprimo

        “Moronic” is spot on.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ REMINDER +–+ RED X ***

    70 ads already post stats days. (see the Daily Wip). They are confronting from everywhere, will they shatter: NEVER, we will keep them busy.
    Tampa is angry, REAL ANGRY, they are spamming and duplicating their ads, more are probably going to follow. Keep checking the Daily Wip for more ads from California later this evening every 2nd hours.
    RedX write up : https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-117#post-2494321
    RedX spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    For those who do not have much time but would like to send a message to Tony Chen here are the links for Sacramento Riverpark mission.
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22916+925+2545%22%7C%22916+519+5287%22%7C%223825+marconi%22%7C%22scientology+of+riverpark%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22916+925+2545%22%7C%22916+519+5287%22%7C%223825+marconi%22%7C%22scientology+of+riverpark%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22916+925+2545%22%7C%22916+519+5287%22%7C%223825+marconi%22%7C%22scientology+of+riverpark%22

    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%22916+925+2545%22%7C%22916+519+5287%22%7C%223825+marconi%22%7C%22scientology+of+riverpark%22
    If you like to do ALL Sacramento (about 100 ads) go to the Regional list of the RedX spreadsheet. (see link above).

    Only 4 Boston ads from James aka JJ, find them in the Regional List or the Last 4 Days!

    First RedX graphic: the RedX Gang by Aegerprimo, inspired by Barbara Angel:. https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/13156275813/in/set-72157642802079293

  • seataka

    HUBBARD HOT-AUTHOR STATUS CALLED ILLUSION
    San Diego Union April 15, 1990 front page articleby Mike McIntyre
    http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/sandiego-books031590.htm
    “Five, six, seven people at a time would come in, with cash in hand, buying the book,” said Dave Dutton, of Dutton’s Books, a group of four stores in the Los Angeles area. “They’d blindly ask for the book. They would buy two or three copies at a time with $50 bills. I had the suspicion that there was something not quite right about it.”

  • Elegant Mess

    So, I have to admit, my curiosity was piqued by this article. I went and borrowed a digital copy of Final Blackout from my library. Reading the preface and first chapter have been difficult, as I find Hubbard’s writing style quite clunky. Maybe I should prepare a book report for this arduous read. Wish me luck!

    • Sid

      I agree. It was supposed to be one of his best and one of the few at least moderately respected books. I found it awkward to read and the protagonist very shallow. I think LRH wrote these hero novels as though he was the hero.

      • Stacy

        Interesting. The few LRH book reviews I’ve looked into (one I’m including is the Mission Earth Spork site which is awesome!) all seem to have the same thought. It’s LRH as the hero, or a very static version of what LRH thinks a hero should be. But then, there are complaints about how poorly written his villains are too. CoS needs to face the fact that LRH sucked as a writer. Mr. Ackerman had the right of it. He was prolific; he could churn out a lot of mediocre crap, and that’s why his stuff got published. It was filler.

        • Sid

          I don’t think I even got through the first Mission Earth book. One of the most disjointed and patched together books was Buckskin Brigades. It was terrible. The editor must have been an SP.

          • Elegant Mess

            Lol! Those darned SPs. Getting in the way of unadulterated brilliance. **end snark**

            • Sid

              I know right? For all of the Scientology Basic books he hired nothing but SPs to edit them.

          • Stacy

            Lol, I’m sure CoS claims that about every book of LRH’s that gets bad reviews. Edited by SPs! Reviewed by SPs! Read by the SP masses!

            • Sid

              They also pump up their book ‘awards’. Once there was an award for one of LRH’s fiction books that sounded pretty official and they bragged it up royally. I thought I’d check it out. It took me a bit but it turned out to be just one blind guy sitting at home on his computer who decided to give awards to audio books he liked.

            • Stacy

              Yup. That sounds like CoS. Use anything and everything, and make it sound WAAAAAY better than it really is.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Yes we would like a book report Elegant!

      • Elegant Mess

        Well, I’ll see what I can do! I’ve already started taking notes. Let’s see just how long it will take to trudge through this thing…

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Thanks – then the rest of us don’t have to read it…:)

        • Baby Mcgee

          May Xnue go with you Elegant..

  • Tony Ortega

    Narconon Colombia’s ED does Super Power, added to the post!

    • Sid

      Planetary Clearing is now imminent.

    • Science Doc

      We’ll know that Narconon Columbia is perceived as a microscopic threat to narcotics use when she is found hanging from an overpass.

    • Rita Gregory

      Gee, I wonder why they never have an event where they demonstrate the “super powers”?

    • Jgg2012

      I thought that Narconon had nothing to do with Scientology.

  • i-Betty

    We have two mirrored copies of the infamous video Gary Cardone posted in 2008 of a night out on the town with his twin, Grant, and their mother. Gary deleted the video earlier today after YouTube users made their feelings clear about the Brothers Cardone’s casual racism and lack of respect, warmth and compassion for their elderly mother.

    Thank goodness for mirrors 🙂

    Please could I ask all of you with Reddit accounts to upvote this new Reddit link. Last night we were being downvoted at almost the same rate as we were being upvoted so I believe they were well aware that the video was being discussed here and at SPs and that we had mentioned uploading it to Reddit – so I expect the same to happen this evening.

    Thank you all in advance.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/2rwmlo/grant_cardone_motivational_speaker_one_of/

    • Dolly Jones

      Done 🙂

      • i-Betty

        Thanks, Dolly 🙂

    • i-Betty
    • Unex Skcus

      Ugh, what’s worse than an Arschloch? A brace of them.

      • i-Betty

        What a great word! And perfect in this context 😀

      • Sid

        As is a Cluster of Cardones.

        • Artoo45

          I believe that a gathering of two or more Cardones are referred to as A Slimepit of Cardones.

          • Sid

            Yes, or a Grind of Cardones, as in a grind of sharks.

            • i-Betty

              A Pooper-Scooper of Cardones.

            • Sejanus

              A Clammering Cawkknockitude of Cardones.
              Cardone Jabrone
              G Cardone and the Amazing Technicolour Asshammer
              A Dry Hump of Cardones
              A Disappointment of Cardones
              Grant Cardone Cosplays a Douche
              Cardones, A Tale of a Turdbucket
              A Ferret Buggerer Called Cardone

    • Frodis73

      I signed up just for you Betty!

      • i-Betty

        I saw your comment, and Dolly’s! Thanks a million, that’s so kind 🙂

      • i-Betty

        A little birdie tells me that Grant Cardone has also been reported to the City of Miami for his firework stunt 😉

        • Elegant Mess

          Gee, I wonder who could’ve gone and done a thing like that?

          Oh, just half of The Bunker.

        • Frodis73

          Ha!!!!! Too funny. I hope he gets a fine and a front page spotlight. He still won’t get it though. His defense will be ‘but nobody got hurt’ kinda thing.

    • Elegant Mess

      Thanks for posting this here!

      I just watched the vid. Despicable. They are harassing a woman with apparent arthritis in her hands to use chop sticks. WTF? I won’t even start on the casual racisism being flung about…

      I can only say, “Ew.”

      • i-Betty

        Appalling, aren’t they? They bring me out in hives. When I found out there were two of them I had to go and have a lie down. I hate racist pig Grant Cardone and his racist pig of a brother.

    • Chee Chalker

      I just signed up for reddit but I don’t see the area where we can upvote…is there another link?

      • i-Betty

        You star 🙂 I’ve taken a snip – if you refresh you will see it. All you need to do is click the upwards-pointing arrow beside the title. Thank you!

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Thanks, I just signed up and found the upvote arrow by title and comments, with your help. Also figuring how to manage the site.

          • i-Betty

            Thank you, Christmas Fairy! I love Reddit. If I’m ever bored I’ll spend half an hour on Reddit and come away feeling: disgust, hilarity, educated…you name it, Reddit has it 🙂

    • Jenny Daniels

      Oh BOOOO! I cannot go to the site via this link, it just causes the little wheel on my iPad to keep going around. Help, please.

    • Artoo45

      The RAGE I’m feeling towards this shitty little stuffed shirt is unhealthy. I am so grateful for every day I have with my 90-year old mother. I have no words . . . and you know how many words I normally carry on me.

      • Frodis73

        Yes! Rage! I wanted to grab them through my screen!!!! {clam tech, sorry}

      • i-Betty

        I will be grateful every day if my beloved mother lives to the grand old age of 90. No wonder you are so proud of her 🙂

    • Jenny Daniels

      The YouTube video has been pulled, but this worked: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ebbou_scientologist-grand-cardone-committing-elder-abuse-and-bullying-his-mother-in-2008_webcam
      Their mom seems fine, but the word “ASSHOLES” takes on new meaning when watching/listening to her sons. I rather wish she had taken those damned chopsticks and shoved one through each kid’s eye socket. Now that would be worth watching…

      • i-Betty

        Jenny, thanks so much 🙂 Yes, Gary Cardone pulled his video down earlier today but Brian had taken mirrored copies (and other have made subsequent copies) so we were able to post a new link to Reddit which is now here:

        http://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/2rwmlo/grant_cardone_motivational_speaker_one_of/

      • JennyAtLAX

        Re: “I rather wish she had taken those damned chopsticks and shoved one through each kid’s eye socket. Now that would be worth watching…”

        I like you, kid; you’ve got spunk!

    • i-Betty

      I’ve just re-read the obituary Grant Cardone wrote for his mother and one section really strikes me:

      “I would make her go to Starbucks with me before she even got out of her robe in the morning, promising her that she could just sit in the car, and then once we got there I made her go in with me. We made her go to movies she had no interest in and play games with us until the wee hours of the morning that she didn’t even like.”

      Can you imagine how exhausted she must have been simply trying to resist this relentless pressure?

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        i_betty that is just disgusting. What a slime bag (oh but I already knew that).

        • i-Betty

          Hello, love 🙂 I really do not like the Cardone brothers. Emotionally stunted wide-boys.

        • i-Betty

          Someone pointed out that the obituary was all about himself, really. His mother is mentioned just as a prop.

      • Frodis73

        It is just so awful. My mom is disabled and ill and she is very independent and great at saying ‘hell no’ to stuff, but, but we respect her wishes…these assholes did not. I really want to shake him for that obit.

        • i-Betty

          You behave that way because you love your mum – and I have no doubt that the Cardones loved their mum, too, believe it or not – but the difference is that you are able to empathise with your mother and intuitively know what is right for her, whereas these two clowns have had every ‘gentle’ emotion TR’d out of them.

          Also, there’s a school of thought that they were almost certainly horrid people before scientology, which just gave them the arena they needed to flourish.

          Actually, I need to find out whether Gary is also a scientologist.

      • beauty for ashes

        Hi I’m Grant Cardone. I think it’s funny to pathologically emotionally abuse my elderly frail mother. I know! Just when I should be kind and merciful, I like to torture her because I think its funny. Ha! Don’t you? Oh well than Fuck you! I’m Grant Cardone! Who the hell are you!
        ***sigh*** thanks betts I feel so much better now. I couldn’t even watch the video.

        • i-Betty

          There, there, I know 🙁

          It is good to vent. I am considering self-flagellation.

      • McLovin_1982

        Just when you think it can’t get any worse… tada! Sciloontology.

        This woman reminds me of my mother…. generally selfless and dedicated to her children, mine died of cancer, and we surrounded her and loved her to the very end, not a moment wasted on petty differences or things that happened in the past.

        ALL YOU FOLKS STILL IN!

        THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGY DOES TO YOU!

        GET OUT!

        • i-Betty

          I really do agree, McLovin. I think THAT is the issue at large here; that being a good scientologist deadens all the kinder, gentler, more empathetic emotions and this is the result.

      • Ardent

        He’s just SUCH AN ASSHOLE! Does he not realise how horrible that is? Well, obviously not. Jackass Supreme.

      • Pepper

        Hi Betty,

        Wow. Poor Mom, she must have been exhausted.

        I have a Mom who is older and doesn’t like going out walking around anymore, except to buy groceries and that’s about it. My mom has chronic pain from spinal arthritis. I take her shopping and run up and down the aisles picking up what she wants, as she stands at the end of the lane with her small cart, which she uses to lean on and to put a few items in. She also uses it as her command station to make sure I’m doing everything she wants. I actually enjoy this because she’s really funny.

        You are so right in that generally people can empathize with an older parent and accommodate their needs and wishes but some can’t. Grant is used to being a “powerful being, an OT” so he probably thinks that he can will away whatever is holding his Mom back from “being herself”. Thetans are not bodies, and we are all Thetans. He probably looked at his Mom as just “dramatizing her case”, and giving her “sympathy” would be bad for her, Dianetically speaking. Some Scientologists get very confused on the concepts of sympathy and empathy and have a hard time differentiating between the two.

        The emotion of Sympathy is believed to be low-toned in Scientology. If you are being sympathetic, you are in a lower tone level. Hubbard talks a lot about sympathy in Dianetics and basically said that sympathy is what holds engrams in place and creates “Allies”. When one person gives sympathy to another, an “Ally” is formed. Allies can make engrams much harder to reach and audit out.

        No doubt Grant and Gary believed that if they were to give in to their Mom’s lowered activity level, depression, pain, or whatever it was, they would only be sympathizing with it, and agreeing with her “case”. They believed that she was dramatizing her reactive mind / case. They were being “cause over Mom” and were dealing with her in what they considered to be an “uptone” manner.

        Just another perspective.

        You touched on a point that I have seen over and over being in Scientology. The lack of empathy between people exists for all sorts of things; driving people into bankruptcy is another good example.

        • i-Betty

          Thank you so much for such a thoughtful comment, Pepper. I hope you don’t mind but I would like to share what you’ve said over on SPs, because I don’t think anyone else has worded it quite so well.

          Thanks again 🙂

    • i-Betty

      Doc Boucher has discovered that Gary Cardone, the evil twin, runs ChargeBacks911 which helps merchants fight disputes by card members and banks. – http://chargebacks911.com/

      He wondered whether it was legitimate or a WISE front group.

    • i-Betty

      Please can a pro-Redditor advise me? If a topic is ‘controversial’ does that mean it is being downvoted almost as much as it is being upvoted? Because that is what is happening to the Cardone twins’ video and it has moved into the controversial category on Reddit.

      The firework video, however, hasn’t been downvoted as much, and I believe that’s because Grant Cardone genuinely feels that holding a lit firework within eyebrow- (and penis)-scorching distance is manly. So he’s not bothered how many people see it.

      • no clue, i would contact a mod on controversial and ask why/how you got there from whatever you posted it in in the first place!

        see if there’s a subreddit for elder abuse too and post it there as a new post…they are all kinds of subreddits!! sorry i couldn’t help 🙁

    • done!

    • anonymous

      He just wants to prove himself sufficiently vicious so Tom and Davey consider him worthy. He wants to join in when they’re off making ‘movies’ together.

    • Destructor of Worlds

      https://whyweprotest.net/threads/grant-cardone-thread.120218/#post-2507487

      “In 2008, this video was posted by scientologist grand cardone when he was bullying and abusing his elderly mother!”

      http://www.viddler.com/v/e4eeec09

    • Xenu is my Homeboy

      Hi iBetty, I am commenting on an old comment of yours so there is less chance of prying eyes seeing it. Are you able to contact Artoo45 (via email, or other means)? I have a question about this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iv5sWIut8o . I wanted to know about the cartoon character sounding narration. Is this someones real voice or did he use some kind of software to alter his or someone else’s voice. If it was software could he tell me what it was. Thanks.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Hi lovie, of course I can 🙂

      • (Looks around for prying eyes)
        Hey XIMH, I use a pitch adjustment in GarageBand to lower the pitch of my voice just a little bit. Avid also has software to lower or raise the pitch of your voice as needed without changing the speed.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    And a quickie:

    (Refresh!)

    • Sid

      Yup.

    • beauty for ashes

      Triple D is on a roll!

  • Science Doc
    • Artoo45

      Chuck Norris can write?

      • Science Doc

        I ran into Chuck Norris a couple of times while traveling through DFW. Not a friendly guy.

        • right douche apparently…. initially he hated all those Chuck Norris memes and had to be explained to by his agent that they were actually good for his image… guy goes (went) around Texas schools teaching Intelligent Design and that Jesus existed the same time as dinosaurs… (incidentally where you did you get the story from?)

          • Science Doc

            It’s making the rounds of the science blogs. I wish I could tell my Chuck Norris story, because it involved him, me and four other strangers on a planes, trains, and automobiles nightmare getting from here to there, but I’d have to scrub some biographical details that would make the story a bit senseless. Two details: I was knee to knee with a guy in a tiny van with bench seats in the dark. He was wearing a Walker Texas Ranger Cast and Crew shirt. I said to myself, please don’t be Chuck Norris. I made eye contact and it was. His eyes said don’t even think about talking to me. Later an idiot recognized him and started miming Kung Fu moves after Chuck had had a few Miller Lights. It could have ended badly.

            • Stacy

              Even with no more details than this, it makes an interesting and intriguing Chuck Norris story.

            • Ardent

              Ha! I wish you could tell the full story. But of course, I understand. Thanks for the chuckle.

            • Science Doc

              When I was a lot younger I traveled on business a week or two every month. Getting there and getting back was often a major pain in the ass. Little sleep and much frustration. Throwing Chuck Norris into the mix was far from the weirdest thing from those days. It was an awful night.

        • Artoo45

          My best memory of him was when I was sitting in the ballroom watching Richard Dawkins speak at TAM9 and finding out that ol’ Chuck was addressing a MMA conference across the hall. There should have been lightning or something. They asked Richard to vamp a bit so that we wouldn’t encounter the folks waiting to get into Chuck’s event. It didn’t work. There was a long, eerie silence as 1500 skeptics filed past a bunch of pugilists and their wives in prom outfits. Chuck stood in the doorway and just glared at us.

          • Science Doc

            My Richard Dawkins story is that I was backstage at Bill Maher one night Dawkins was on. Unfortunately I didn’t get to talk to him as the Green Room there is talent only.

            • Ardent

              That is a bummer!

            • Artoo45

              He’s really very shy. I met him at the Speakers Reception at TAM before he flew out. I think he’s a fascinating thinker, but the man really needs to stay away from social media. A life in academia at that rarefied level has left him ill-prepared for the ugliness of the schoolyard.

      • beauty for ashes

        Ha! My brain literally said STOP you read that wrong.

    • hmmm, rumours he reached OTVII might have gained a little traction ….

    • Stacy

      The ads on that site…
      “NASA Confirms: Only 13 Months Until D-Day.”
      *eye roll*

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    This is a great comment from Mike Rinder’s blog today, in response to the question of why little Captain David quit delivering services.

    Low Flying Drone says:

    “Mike already encapsulated the thing, but I would love to add some thoughts to this excellent question. David Miscavige is a high intelligence, high functioning, sociopathic personality. LRH Hubbard was a high intelligence, high functioning, egomanic. LRH believed he had given something incredible to the world around him. He wanted people to pay money for that gift to support him and also to perpetuate his gift and bring it forward for future generations. Thus there was a lot of emphasis on actually working hard to bring this gift to people and thus an effort to create a valuable exchange. Thus the driving concept was “I have something valuable, I will give it to you and in return you will donate to my wealth and to the propogation of this valuable thing”. This mean a certain amount of care to make sure that people felt like they were actually getting something in return for their donations. This is EGOTISM. It’s a bad thing, but can drive people and at least make them strive for positive achievements. Accomplishment is wide open for debate.

    “David Miscavige is a classic sociopath. His concept is that everything is a con, everyone lies and everyone is out for themselves and only the self-centered and utterly ruthless survive. The egotistical and dictatorial aspects of scientology resonate all the way down to his little black heart. His life is a constant effort to manipulate and contrive. Thus under his rule, there is no effort to try and give anything. There is only an effort to manipulate and take. Thus you see right from the first year that he took control of scientology the initiation of the “take” programs. Since then it had been just one manipulative push after another. There is no striving for positive accomplishment, just a race to the next con, the next sales gimmick.”

  • PickAnotherID

    On that Anchorage poster, is the bear supposed to represent the Cof$ and the salmon potential marks, or what??

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Consensus for far: or what.

      • Observer

        It looks like a thinly veiled threat to me. “Come to Alaska and we’ll steal your wallet and feed you to the bears!”

        • Juicer77

          Quicker than slow death by being in the Sea Argh.

          • Observer

            More pleasant, too.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Swallowed whole by a bear or ground to powder by Scientology?

              No contest.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Well, sure, there’s that. heh. As a local piece, I can see where the bear and fish is a thing. It’s a tough world out there. Of course, in Alaska it pretty much really is – but yeah – I think whoever put this one together was having a Freudian moment. There’s hope!

    • Ardent

      Body routing bear. Their new mascot.

  • Observer

    Just found this on cheezburger

    refresh

  • Artoo45

    “A page filler with an occasional flash of brilliance.”
    -Forry Ackerman

    Well, certainly a page filler extraordinaire.

    • Frodis73

      I think it would be great if the Connor story is true. I hope those kids are having doubts and asking Nicole about it.
      BTW, were there rumors that those two (Connor and the girl) were adopted from the SO? I seem to remember reading that somewhere years ago. I wouldn’t be surprised…

      • Stacy

        I recall reading something about the kids being adopted from Sea Org members too, Frodis. Both of them.
        If that’s true, I wouldn’t put it past DM to order Sea Org members to get pregnant in order for there to be children for TC to adopt. Disgusting, but totally in keeping with his typical behavior.

        • Frodis73

          I can see that being a very attractive alternative vs going through the traditional adoption route…for privacy reasons, etc. Maybe it will come out in the years to come, if true. The kids are at the age where they are starting to get real curious about that kind of thing.

        • aegerprimo

          Would be great if you could find where you read that info.

          • Stacy

            I’m thinking about it. Trouble is, I’ve read SO much CoS stuff over the past 6 months or so. Hopefully I’ll remember. Maybe Going clear?
            I’m going to sleep on it and try to worry about it. It may come to me that way. Sometimes the more I try to remember, the more elusive the memory becomes. :/

            • aegerprimo

              Yeah, I hear ya! I read so much as well. I do not remember reading anything about Tom’s adoptions. It would be GREAT if you can provide a link or info of where you read about this! Take your time, no pressure.

            • Frodis73

              I’m pretty sure I only read it online. It obviously didn’t come from Tony, Lol. He’s the only one I trust for hard core sci news. It was prob the ex sci msg boards or something. I do remember it was somebody who was in the SO at one time though.

            • trunklesstree

              It was Mark that was going to reveal who the bio parents were but had a change of heart.

            • Frodis73

              Which Mark?

            • trunklesstree

              Mark Headley

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I have read this stuff too. but it has all been speculation. Nothing in stone.
          Sighs.

          • Stacy

            Do you happen to remember where you read it?

      • a regular here [I think] was going to post a big reveal on Connor’s 18th birthday which strongly implied that Cruise was his real father… which if you look at his face is quite believable’ I think they had a change of heart. given the amount of potential abortions flying around the Sea Org it would have been extremely easy for the adoptions to be “in-house” so to speak. I would be really surprised if his children came from legitimate adoption agencies.

        • Frodis73

          Who the heck is the mother?? Lol. Yes, I agree 100% about the in-house SO adoption. So easy to keep quiet that way. The bio parents could have just signed ’em over.

        • aegerprimo

          Hmmmm… the Co$ and it’s members don’t do things legit.

  • nottrue

    …Forrest missed one

    • Frodis73

      Way cool!

    • Ardent

      oops!

  • Destructor of Worlds

    Douche Cardone, somebody rip it please:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAFZ6JDYpFE

    • Frodis73

      I kind of wish she was alive so we could call protective services on his ass.

      • Stacy

        She’s deceased now? Poor woman.
        Cardone just sounds like he’s mocking his mom the whole time. It’s like the whole purpose of making the vid is to make fun of her. I hope I’m wrong.

        • Destructor of Worlds

          You are not wrong.

          • Stacy

            🙁
            No mother deserves that.

            • Destructor of Worlds

              Maybe that is why his wife is that amount of crazy and is me branding her Bi-polar false.

            • villagedianne

              They say bad sons make bad husbands.

            • Frodis73

              We need to “pray” to Xenu now that Mrs. Douche, or one of his little girls, don’t get sick. If karma is real, he will end up sick and weak…then maybe he can remember all the fun stuff he made his mom do. !@#$%^!&
              Changed Ms. to Mrs. as I’m sure she would prefer and spelling.

            • Stacy

              !@#$%^!& is right! I

        • Frodis73

          OMG, you *must* read this…but get ready to wanna puke and hit something. I swear, my eye starts twitching when I think of this/him.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/grant-cardone/say-yes-to-life_b_209903.html

          • Stacy

            That’s just absolutely, fucking disgusting. they forced their mom to do things she didn’t want, and they’re proud of it. Grant, you arrogant, misogynistic fuck, you made the last 20 years of your mom’s life a living hell, you bastard! And you did it by forcing her to live the life YOU thought appropriate! Not the one she wanted! You forced her to live YOUR life you evil waste of space!

            “My twin brother, Gary Cardone and I spent the last 20 years selling, persuading, convincing and even pressuring my aging mother to say ‘Yes’ to the experiences of life. We pushed her, even against her will, to do things she did not want to ensure she lived life. During her senior years we forced her to do things that she was resistant to and uncomfortable with. We often made her stay out later than she thought herself capable. I remember a trip to Vegas where I kept my mother up all night to the point of her being exhausted just so we could watch the sun come up together. I once made her walk the hilly streets of San Francisco until she thought her lungs would explode. I planted flowers with her long after she complained about her body aching and then insisted she make me dinner. I made her dance with me at my wedding to rap music even though it embarrassed her. I would wait until she got in bed at night and call her just to get her up, and then call her early in the morning just to piss her off.”

            I hope there’s a Hell, just so you can go there to be punished for what you and your evil twin did to your mother.

            BTW Grant, you have zero talent at writing. Writing a book on sales that ends up on the NYT Best Sellers list does NOT make you a good writer or a good author. You need to learn how to properly arrange a sentence before that could ever happen. Then you actually need to know what words to use; for instance, when you should use “breathe” instead of “breath.”

            • Baby Mcgee

              This is my response yesterday to all those who missed it..This behavior didn’t happen overnight. I personally blame the mother for their behavior in adulthood ( Don’t know anything about dad..and I don’t care to)

              I am positive they were put on a pedestal all their lives..

              ” I planted flowers with her long after she complained about her body aching
              and then insisted she make me dinner.”

              Mom..You
              raised your sons well.. If you made him dinner when you didn’t want
              to.. stayed up all night exhausted, walked the hills of San Fran while
              you thought your lungs would explode.. etc.. I would only ask you one
              question.. WHY?

              Cardone she was a great friend? You laughed at
              her expense..embarrassed and humiliated her at your wedding.. called her
              just so she would wake up.. Shit..

              Not ONLY were you an asshole son you were an asshole friend.

              I only wish my kids were with me now..I would thank them for being wonderful children AND friends to me.

            • Frodis73

              You do have a point. He did learn this crap somewhere. It’s possible dear old mom pushed him like this. We don’t know. If he was my kid, I would have said ‘fuck off kid. NO!’. I do wonder where dad is in this picture though. I am no fan of his wife, but she picked a horrible hubby. Yeah, he can buy you fancy cars, clothes, etc. There is more to life than that though. His poor little girls though.

            • Baby Mcgee

              I was looking for a video with Douche and his daughter..and he asked her what $ will give you..

              She was like 2 and screamed..” POWER” and he laughed and said, ” That’s right money brings you power..” ugh

            • Frodis73

              Oh gawd. Gag me. Just what this world needs…another power and money hungry freak!

            • Eclipse-girl

              Baby,
              we come to question of nature vs nurture.

              I do understand that some people are raised with adults who have not earned the honor of being parents.

              She probably was tough. These boys are still ass holes.

            • Baby Mcgee

              E.. What I am saying really is.. Why?

              If my kids wanted me to scale the hills with them.. I would say NO if I didn’t feel like it..

              Cooking them dinner when I was exhausted? Hell to the NO..

              ” YOU TEACH people how to treat you..”

              I don’t think she was tough.. I think she catered to their every need.

            • Frodis73

              Ah, ok, I get where you are coming from. I would have been like you, No, f off! Lol.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Well..finally..hahahhahahha ..

              I thought at one time my daughter was narcissistic.

              We have spent time repairing our relationship. I now realize she was being self absorbed as a defense mechanism. She can be selfish and self centered, but not to the level of narcissism.

            • Frodis73

              I can relate. Any of that go on during the infertility by chance? I was told the same thing because I avoided friends with babies for years to protect myself…lots of people said I was selfish and self absorbed for that. Looking back, I was. I also needed to protect myself.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Yep..she had invitro.. after about 10yrs of infertility.. ( She has 3 kids now) She has a complex personality..

              but because we live so far away from each other we get along marvelously. haha Mahveous Darlink..

              She and her sister aren’t speakin..but that is between the 2 of them. I refuse to get involved. I told them I was Switzerland.

            • Frodis73

              Smarter to be Swiss in family situations. I am glad she was able to have the babies she wanted finally. I just had a hunch that may have played a part of it. Lol.

            • Baby Mcgee

              You are a smart doggie..xo

            • Eclipse-girl

              Sorry, I am dwelling on my own past.

              My mom was stoic. She had her issues – WE ALL DO.

              I would NEVER treat another human that way.

            • Baby Mcgee

              I know you wouldn’t treat another human that way.. You are a good person.. xo

              Yes..we all have our own issues..( Me? More than my share..ha)

            • Eclipse-girl

              And yeah I do not?!

              (((HUGS)))

              Sociopathy – assholes treating elderly people poorly gets to me

            • Frodis73

              I’m an atheist…if I am wrong, I hope somebody punishes this twat. This is beyond words. I’d love to torture the f out of him. Lol. Seriously though, maybe he’ll get sick…and be weak and need help. If not, he will get old…hopefully he will remember what he did. Ass will prob drop dead of a heart attack in seconds or something though. I want him to meet karma. I am not perfect by any means. I have done things I am ashamed of. We all have. This is just evil.

            • Ardent

              It is evil, actually. Yes, I really strongly agree.

            • Frodis73

              It really boggles my mind. Like what the hell kind of person does that? Seriously?

            • Baby Mcgee

              Doggie.. I believe there is a God.. He will burn in hell.. That is a given

            • Spackle Motion

              Parts of Grant’s quote above resemble a narcissistic, asshole ex-boyfriend I had once and how he treated his now deceased mother. It took me years to forgive myself for being any part of that gross behavior. This is one of many reasons why I can empathize with ex-Scientologists and why this quote provokes a major eye roll from me.

          • And I’m Cute, Too

            I felt physically ill reading that. I fear for anyone in Cardone’s care. If this is how he treated his mother, what on earth would he do to his wife and kids?

            • Frodis73

              Yep! He has those two cute kids. I just hope nobody gets sick over there…between scientology doctrine and his ‘kindness’ they are screwed!

          • Ardent

            The horror of that ‘life affirming’ article is just way beyond unsettling. “We forced”, etc… How could HuffPo even publish that article? You’re right, Frodis, I really did feel like being sick and lashing out.

            • Frodis73

              I know! I also became physically ill while reading it. So pissed the comments were closed…I couldn’t even read the old ones…I cannot imagine many people thought this was a good story. I am also appalled that Huff Post published that. WTF?
              I forget who it was here that shared this first…I had to re-post to make sure everybody sees it…it’s that bad.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          The vibe I get is that when her boys were growing up, she couldn’t tell the difference between familial loyalty and parental responsibility, The sort of mama who’d sooner call you a liar, even if her sons were caught red-handed, rather than suffer the indignity of inflicting some well earned discipline on them.

          Little did she know she’d ever be on the receiving end of her sons’ mischief..

          • TheQueenofBulgravia

            “her sons’ mischief..” …..her sons’ abuse..

          • Eclipse-girl

            I have been in the classroom. I dealt with HSers usually.

            It pissed me off when parents come in and think their child is perfect.

            No child is perfect. Some children are problems in the classroom. Often, the parents of such children were not receptive to the idea that their children had issues.

          • Frodis73

            Yes, I know the type. That is a good bet judging them on how they act.

  • aquaclara

    Only three days left? Tony is such a tease….
    😉

  • aquaclara

    I am so behind… And so sorry for all that has transpired in France. To Richelieu and Jonny and all the French Bunkerites, my heart and prayers go out to you today.

    Huffpo has a collection of tributes from cartoonists all over the world; will attach a link tomorrow when I am back at my computer. I caught it this morning, meant to post a link and then lost the entire day.

    Forrest Ackerman (per Wikipedia) has ahead an incredible life. Wacky, but respectable if one gives credit for specializing in all things Sci-fi. Note, too, that LRon is a tiny, tiny mention only. How this makes me giddy. A world of Sci-fi with Hubbard treated like a tiny little ant? Bring it on.

    AGP and Triple D posted great pics today that I just loved. Thank you both.

    I owe the Craigs List some focused attention this weekend. Join me if you are also in catch-up mode!

    • Ardent

      Aqua, regarding Ronald MacHubbard’s reputation as a science fiction writer, I can say that, as a confirmed reader of sci-fi since I was in grade 3, I quite honestly did not catch him on my radar until perhaps my mid-teens. At that time, his science-fiction credits were only as a by-the-way when people were disparaging the cult of Scientology. It was the seventies, and cults and fads like EST and the like seemed to appear regularly, like dandelions. I did try to read something of his, but found the writing very poor. I can’t recall what it was, and I put it back on the bookstore shelf. As Ackerman says in the above interview, his writing was ‘page-filler’. I agree.
      When I began getting his Scientology stuff through channels, I was both profoundly amused and dismayed by how rambling, bizarre and confused what I was reading was. Verbal salad is a term I would apply.

      • Frodis73

        Same here with his writing. I grew up hearing about tons of writers and good old Ron wasn’t one of them. My dad is into sci fi and he laughed when I asked what is up with that book in the volcano commercial when I was a kid. He chuckled and told me well, it’s a cult ran by a failed writer. My dad had hundreds and hundreds of books…not one LRH title among them. He said he picked up Dianutty once and said it was crazy bs that he didn’t finish.

        • aquaclara

          Your dad would have LOVED the Bunker!

          • Frodis73

            Yes, he would definitely dig this joint.

        • Eclipse-girl

          My Dada and your dad would have loved talking about their fave authors.

          I am lucky I understand what the “Golden Age” is.

          I am glad I have greats like Bester, Van Vogt, Kuttner etc.

        • Ardent

          Ha! Your dad was quite correct, of course. Thanks for sharing!

  • Baby Mcgee

    I have been mulling this over for a week or so.. Maybe you can help me..Hopefully Jon Atack will answer too..

    I had mentioned once that the Bunker will Kick Ass in 2015..

    Jon responded with.. ( paraphrasing..) something like there is no ass to kick.. they are all victims now..even David Miscavige is a victim.

    I understand mind control..I do.. the system of hypnotic drills etc.. but..

    I personally don’t see David Miscavige as a victim or Cardone or ( fill in the blank) .. Do You? Good God..

    • Stacy

      I see what Jon means. In many ways, all people who go wrong may have been victims of something; possibly even something quite traumatic and harmful.

      However, that does NOT mitigate their crimes at all. If you abuse others, whether deliberately or casually without really meaning to, you need to make up for doing so. Can you see either DM or any of the Cardones actually trying to atone for any atrocities they may have committed? Yeah, I don’t either.

      That being the case, I’m with you Baby. There are some asses in CoS that need a good ass-kicking!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Yes, and no.
      I think they have sociopathic personalities and they have been given the golden ticket to unleash their psychosis.
      So, on a technicality…………sure……….
      IMHO.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Who asked you?

        hahhahaha.. I think my hatred of them blocks any sympathy for a victim.. but as Subgenius says it’s NOT hatred it’s pity

        ( Like pathetic person pity) but they both want to cause me to vomit

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          slinking back to my closet……hehehe

          • Baby Mcgee

            Say hi to Tom and John xo

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh hush, miss thing………….this is the first time I have had to visit in two days.

              WITHDRAWLS!!!

            • Baby Mcgee

              Actually I haven’t been on much.. Company big time… Plus cold.. ugh

              I will make you giggle before the night is out..xox love baby

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Too. late!!!!
              you already did!

            • Baby Mcgee

              Oh good.. My work here is done! xo

        • Eclipse-girl

          Baby,
          i had a brother with sociopathic tendencies.
          It is So Fucking hard to be a younger sibling in a family like that.

          My brother died almost 20 yrs ago.
          I am grateful my daughter and my two nieces were essentially never exposed to him – as infants – long story ….

          I still kind of miss the bastard. I am really glad that I have not have to deal with with trail of tragedy.

          My parents never knew how much damage this person inflicted on us.
          In one way, he was the favorite of both my mother and my nutso aunt.

          • Eileen

            Hi Egirl, That is such a difficult experience, both the memories and the relief that others were saved certain pain by his demise. Sociopaths don’t change, the problems would likely have persisted. They are often also favorites of certain unobservant people who only see the surface charm and wit.

            • Eclipse-girl

              My sociopathic brother could “schmooze” most people and they usually fell for it.
              My mother and my aunt should have seen more and known better.

              He was my brother. It is hard to have no affection, no memory of the the good times with a dangerous person. Nut I am grateful the drama ended in 1996.

              I would not wish this on another person, yet another person, my brother 3 yrs older than me, experienced it. I think I have gained something through therapy. I worry about my brother who had not dealt with our past. I love him. I can not make it easier or take his burden away from him. I would if I could.

            • Vaquera

              I think I understand. You miss/mourn the idea of having this brother, but you don’t miss the actuality of him?

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do not miss him.

              But if he needed you , If he needed to shmooze you…
              He could make you feel like the most important person in his life. He knew you buttons. he knew your “ruin.”
              It was hard not to put under his spell. ( I am not sure I was ever successful at that trait. )

            • Draco

              I understand this EG. I also had a sociopath in my childhood. I was glad when he moved away and the only sadness I felt at his passing was that he had wasted his life, and left no-one behind who would miss him or be glad to have known him. I think that is sad, but I was glad he was no longer around to inflict his particular brand of nasty onto anyone I loved.

            • Eclipse-girl

              (((HUGS)))

              It is not anything I would wish on a person.
              I am sorry that you endured your past
              Our past – often troubled – has made us who we are.

            • Eileen

              The only thing you can do is love him and if he ever brings it up validate his experience. The rest should be handled by therapists. Glad you are safe now.

          • Baby Mcgee

            I am sorry about your brother E.. of course you miss him ..

            • Eclipse-girl

              But the problem is I do not miss him. There is a stupidly weird dichotomy is ME.

              I have lived without his drama (I had enough of my own). I could raise my daughter (with Mr E’s help) without thinking I need to protect her from her uncle.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Oh I’m sorry E.. I read it as I kind of miss the bastard wrong..

              Your daughter is very lucky to have you and Mr. E in her life sweetie..

            • Eclipse-girl

              ‘cept I said the wrong thing in a moment of exhaustion.

              (IT WAS MY FAULT)

              I gotta wait for her to cool down. But it gets a bit old.
              I know I was wrong.

              Sorry to much of my lifei s bleedin through.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Just know how much you are loved and supported here E.. xox I always love seeing your avi..xo

            • Eclipse-girl

              Just as I love you.

              (((HUGS)))

              Some night, in your back yard, a beer and a glass of wine and stars.

            • Baby Mcgee

              I will get the tent ready.. xo love me..

              I am so glad you have Mr. E.
              Always remember E..

              ” None of us are where we started in this life..” and that is a good thing for most of us.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I love Mr E.
              He is a total nerd.
              He talks over my head all the time.
              I do not know what I would do without him.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Awww that’s my girl.

          • aquaclara

            You said this well. And I’m sorry for your loss. He was still your brother, and we always remember the best days, the best things about our family. That’s natural.

            You also put it out there- that it was good that your daughter and nieces didn’t have to deal with this.

            It is so good to remember our family. But equally important, as you have done respectfully, to be mindful of the harm that might have resulted….holding both thoughts at once fits, as complicated as it may be.

            I’m sorry,E-girl.

            • Eclipse-girl

              AC,
              You have nothing to be sorry for.

              It was just the life I was dealt. I had plenty of food and a warm place to sleep at night. It is more than so many others have.

              I do not want sympathy. I want to educate others that assholes (sociopaths) exist and most parents don’t see that personality trait in their children.

            • aquaclara

              Aah, still wish you had the kind of brother that came without the deep psychological damage. It wasn’t his fault, but you probably bore the brunt of things.

              Teachers I know have a hard time getting parents to see that junior needs a little more time on spelling. Or on math problems. Or writing the letter “r” (“oh, I know. But their “c” is so good!”). Imagine hearing that they need significant amounts of help. The deep denial must set in pretty quickly.

            • Eclipse-girl

              You know I had speech therapy (the most common form of special ed)intervention) until I was in 4th grade.

              I can not change my past – but I am not immune to “What if” questions.
              I firmly hold to the belief I would not be who I am now without having endured all the stuff that I did

            • noseinabk

              My mom still gets played by my brother who is 49 years old. She guilt trips me about cutting him out of my life. She makes excuses for him and I counter that no matter what happened to him in his childhood, he is an adult who is able to go his own way. The way he has chosen to live is not one I want to expose my kids to. It is not that my mother doesn’t see it. She just thinks that as a parent she could have helped him more. He reminds me of some of the scions we see. Grow up.

            • Eclipse-girl

              (((HUGS)))

              I was lucky. My parents died before my brother.
              I did not have that family drama.

              This thing about toxic relatives is hard when they are in the immediate family. You did what you needed to do to protect you family. You did the right thing. Never, ever doubt that.

            • noseinabk

              You have no idea how your comment hits home for me. Thanks E! To be the little sister who had to act as the oldest was not easy.

            • Eclipse-girl

              No, it is not easy.

              (((HUGS)))

            • Baby Mcgee

              Be firm with your mama nose and just tell her that if you wanted to take a vacation it wouldn’t be a ” Guilt Trip..”

              Please tell your mother from me ( counselor ) she did what she needed to do at that time.. but she is only enabling him to not take responsibility for his life now.

              This is a good quote..( I heard somewhere)

              ” Sometimes losing someone is NOT a loss.”

            • Baby Mcgee

              E.. compassion isn’t sympathy or pity baby girl.. It is caring.. smooch.

              So when we say I’m sorry.. it only means we are sorry that you had to go through that shit cause we care..

            • Eclipse-girl

              I know.
              And I know I am preaching to the choir.

              I want people to CARE, to give a damn.
              It is why we are here. WE DO GIVE A DAMN.

            • Baby Mcgee

              I know YOU know.. Yep.. that’s why all of us are here..

              We have such EMPATHY.. it is palpable ..

              Good Lord look how much we hurt when one of us loses a pet.. It is just heartbreaking.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I have done the “what if” question.
              “what if i could shut off the empathy?”

              I wouldn’t be me.
              It wouldn’t feel right to be able to walk away.

              I accept who I am. I care and sometimes that is overwhelming.
              I would rather deal with that, then be an ass hole.
              (Although we are all ass holes at times)

            • Baby Mcgee

              I would chose death over NOT caring. Because that isn’t living anyway.

              I would be just existing.

            • Eclipse-girl

              some night – we will just sit and be with one another and know.

              (((HUGS)))

            • Baby Mcgee

              ((HUGS)) yep..

        • 1subgenius

          Please. I can misquote myself.

          • Baby Mcgee

            shit.. Give it to me Sub..The pathetic person was my words..

            I thought you stated to me that it’s not hatred it’s pity.. Be nice..I don’t feel good.

            • 1subgenius

              It’s just that it’s embarrassing enough to read my own words, as pompous, trite, self-righteous, self-indulgent and officious (I could go on) as they usually are.

              And inevitably a paraphrase of them is going lose some content, intent, and context.

              What you attributed to me is not quite what I said, but now there are some who think that it is. Not a big deal.

              And virtually nothing I say is original, so it’s also embarrassing to have something attributed to me that I stole from someone else. I don’t always have the time to credit the source.

              Hey, now that’s a funny line, though, no? “Please. I can misquote myself.”

              I’ll bet someone said it before.

              Have a cookie, you’ll feel better.

            • Baby Mcgee

              Yes that was a funny line.. I’ll give you that..

              Can I have a piece of pie instead? Thanks..

              I will never quote or misquote you again.. asshole..( bawwwwwwwwwwhahaha)

              I’m sorry that is something that I would say to my husband if he told me not to quote him..haha

    • aegerprimo

      This is a VERY emotional question to ask, and me being an EX-scientologist who was indoctrinated to believe I was responsible for my own condition (whether good or bad)….

      What do I believe now as a person and a human being? What to I understand in my heart and soul? I think we are ALL victims of our upbringing – how we were raised by our parents, what we were exposed to in school and in society… but I also believe, as human beings we have an instinct for what is right and what is wrong.

      L Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige, Tom Cruise, Grant Cardone, Bob Duggan, and the list goes on… they KNOW they tricked people. They stepped on toes and know it. They are NOT victims. They were jerks, assholes, douchebags, con men, tricksters, etc. AND THEY KNOW IT. Do they sleep at night? I am sure they don’t.

      • Ardent

        Only one lone, sad disagreement: I think those bastards DO sleep at night. And that is just sad.

        • aegerprimo

          Well maybe the ones who DO sleep at night are the psychopaths with no remorse.

          • aegerprimo

            Well, maybe I do not understand the difference between someone who has remorse for their crimes and someone who is paranoid/schizophrenic.

        • Eclipse-girl

          That is because they have no empathy or compassion. I call them sociopaths.

      • Frodis73

        Somebody here once said there are two types of people left, the victims, who are true believers and think they are doing something good and then the predator types…Miscavige is def one of them…and some of the others that are making money and exploiting others and they *know* it. I think that rings pretty true.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I agree with Jon but it’s a struggle to remember sometimes. I think the point he was making is that we are all victims of mental illness or mental disorders. Hard to feel anything for those who feel nothing about ripping our lives apart. But sociopaths and narcissists can’t change. It’s not possible. Research is not there yet to offer a cure, yet these few wreak the most havoc.

        There was a time that some diseases and disorders would were looked upon very much the same that we feel about sociopaths. Living through those times, as well as knowing history about earlier times, makes it a little easier to grope for empathy – Not for the behavior, the destruction, the vileness of their activity, but for a human being that is incapable of acting any other way. That factor is hard to conceive – that they really cannot think or act any differently.

        The detestation is normal reaction to an unknown, or maybe it’s their raw animalistic nature, a mirror into the past of half animal half human. With adequate funding, I can easily see breakthroughs in human brain research that will change everything. In the meantime, now and then I remember all this. Most of the time, though, I still go for the lulz as a way to deal with it.

        • Frodis73

          This is so good and I needed to hear it. I suffer with depression and hate hearing ‘just get over it’ when there is *nothing* I can do to change it. I need to remember that it is the same for a narcissistic sociopath. They cannot change that any more than I can snap out of depression. They do know right from wrong though and I need to focus on that.

          • Vaquera

            I’m sorry you’ve had to hear the callous and uninformed comment “just get over it.” Makes me furious. No one would tell someone who suffers from lupus (pick your disease) to just get over it.

            • Frodis73

              Thank you V! The stigma is not as bad as it was…and hopefully one day it will be looked upon as lupus or diabetes, etc. It is urgent that we do too…before we all kill each other or something.

            • noseinabk

              Frodis, was it you who posted a link to a message board type website about depression? Asking for a friend. 🙂

            • Frodis73

              No, I don’t think I have posted any here. If you remember who it was and find out I would like to see the site too. There were some really good ones I followed many years ago, but not recently so I can’t recommend any off hand at the moment. Sorry!

            • Vaquera

              Depression is a soapbox I will stand on ’til the end.

          • Baby Mcgee

            AFuckinMen Doggie.. Been there..on medication..maintaining.

            My mother was the worst. ugh.. ” Put on a Happy Face..” Yeah..OK mom..

            I remember one day I stared out of the window for probably 7 hrs. Just staring. My world was gray.. I felt nothing. NOTHING.. Just staring at nothing.

      • Well said!! They know they’ve tricked people, lied to people, destroyed people’s lives.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Yes..they sleep at night.. you know for ” The greater good..saving the planet.. Yadda, Yadda..”

      • aquaclara

        Aegerprimo, this is complicated. The list of egocentric assholes you list don’t have much regard for the feelings of others. That puts them in a category all their own.

        As individuals, we are all influenced by our families, our peers, our genes, our education, and our own choices – not necessarily in equal amounts.

        But to be a victim or a survivor is not always as easy to determine. Some people with seemingly perfect lives whine enough to make everybody think they are victims, while others who have been to hell and back often hold up, persevere and refuse to accept the victim label. Most people are in the middle, all along the spectrum.

        Your experience doesn’t have to define you, but it definitely affects you. It’s not your fault. And you may find that there are things you were taught that are in contrast with what non-Scientologists typically think. Be patient, go easy on yourself, and if you’re too far off the reservation, well, it’s not unlike the school playground. People will call you out on it pretty quickly. Or at least raise an eyebrow.

    • DannyBoy

      Victim implies lack of choice. I’m not seeing that being the case here.

      • Frodis73

        Yes, they might not be able to help certain parts of their personalities, but they do know right from wrong and should (will!) be held accountable.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Being held accountable is a whole other thing.

          • aquaclara

            I believe the big assholes will be traveling due south when their moment comes. And I don’t mean just to Clearwater.

            That’s right, folks. Door number 3 is the Lifetime Sauna.
            Welcome to hell, Davey. And Cardones.

            • Eclipse-girl

              AC,
              i am an atheist. I do not believe in karma.
              I want the D-bag to get his comeuppance while life when I can enjoy watching it .

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yeah, the whole burn in hell thing is not satisfying for us atheists. We want DM to feel the sting of lost freedom while in this life. And the pain of no more Macallans, John Lobbs or minions to slap around. He needs to pay here and now. The sooner, the better.

            • Eclipse-girl

              As much as I am an atheist, there are times I would love the old “fire and brimstone” to go after the ones I have decided deserved such treatment..

              But I am such a softies, I would probably not let anyone go such torture for too long.

            • My favorite quote from the mother of Molly Dodd, if you remember that series:

              “We get what we deserve, whether we deserve it or not.”

              Molly: “Thank you, Yogi Berra.”

            • Frodis73

              Yes! Get him where it will really hurt. He’s a wimp…he’d be miserable without his luxuries…prison would be even tougher on a guy like DM.

            • Vaquera

              “The Lifetime Sauna”
              Snort. Red wine really burns my nasal passages.

          • DannyBoy

            Absolutely agree. That’s what I was trying to say but I think I missed the mark.
            And no, it’s not simple.

            From personal experience I played the victim card for a long time and refused to accept responsibility for my decisions.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Sure it’s that simple? What about in a case of 90% no choice… and when exactly is the defining start point? What about a woman who gottoo involved too fast with an abuser? Would you sat she doesn’t qualify as being victimized because she had a choice to not get involved in the first place? There are all kinds of conditions and qualifiers. Some people think that you have to be physically restrained at all times. Personally, I think if a person experiences trauma, they are the only ones who can decide if they were victimized, imo.

        • Frodis73

          I love your last sentence.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Ive worked thru these questions b4.

            • Frodis73

              🙂 That is why I always look forward to your posts!

    • No way shape or form do I see niblet as a victim, he was a psychopath who was placed into a perfect storm for him to do whatever he wanted and no one to question or say ‘no’. Even if Cardone got into it as an adult, he’s such a douche, no, I don’t see him as a victim—just a douche! 🙂 Others? Yes, they are victims with a few other exceptions—celebrities who kept the blinders on. I would even say Shelly is a victim as she was placed on the boat with LRH at a young age, it’s all she knows. We also know there is a ‘real’ person within Shelly from other’s writings and those who know her, so she wasn’t fully indoctrinated—there was a sliver of humanity left in her.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Thank you Tia Maria.. I will include this comment in my next book ! ( ha)

        • Oh dear, I’ve missed your previous books!! 😉 There needs to be a $cientology Math book!

    • pluvo

      “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning

      • Baby Mcgee

        pluvo.. that is a beautiful quote.

    • noseinabk

      As a never in I think two kinds of people exist in sciontology (not counting 2nd generation). Those who got in because of the idealistic view of saving the planet and helping people and those who got in to become gods. The best people the cult had are already awake and out.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Gods with Super Powers Nose..xo

  • nottrue

    3 more days….I don’t know if I can make it…I’m starting to lose it..

    • Frodis73

      That dog is killing me!! Look at that smile…and crazy eyes.

      • beauty for ashes

        thank you I wanted to say the same thing 47x! !

        • Frodis73

          I was looking for you! Lol, I’m down with your sneak on the set and start a prairie dog colony plan!

          • beauty for ashes

            A prairie dog colony petting zoo! We could make a lot of money!
            I just have to wait until ryan murphy isn’t doing something really scary/horrible,that could be a while, and no glee!

    • Vaquera

      I had the idea that one of our less-frequesntly seen posters, Charles Murdoch, might be coming out from behind his protective avi and let us know his real name, but I suppose Tony wouldn’t be working us into a froth for a “who is” announcement…..unless it was TC!!! 🙂
      Hey, a cowgirl can dream.

  • aegerprimo

    L Ron Hubbard, typing and typing page fillers for pulp Sci-Fi mags. Forrest Ackerman stating in the video interview that LRH could type and type and even made a special typewriter so he could type faster.

    I cannot stop thinking about the infinite monkey theorem… “A monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.”

    L Ron Hubbard as a writer – not nearly as good as infinity and a monkey at a typewriter.
    ……

    • Ardent

      I would be curious to see the modified typewriter, though.

      • aegerprimo

        Me too! I personally have good touch typing skills on a QWERTY keyboard. I can type 60 words per minute.

        The current keyboard layout was designed because original typewriters jammed because people typed too fast on them and the QWERTY slowed people down. Some info about that at – UGH – I hate to give Wikipedia as a source – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Latham_Sholes

        • Ardent

          Well, what you say is true. My gripe in particular is the placing of ‘i’ and ‘o’ beside each other…Bugs the crap out of me.

        • MaxSpaceman

          The enhancement to the typewriter that Hubbard created was the way he had paper feed into the machine w/o pulling out one sheet and putting in another.

          I think that’s what’s referred to. Just like a roll of paper towels, Hubbard had his paper feed into the typewriter- he never had to stop those key seconds to take out/put in paper. And could write faster.

  • Vaquera

    My dark humor is shining through tonight. I’ve been going down rabbit holes today and couldn’t resist taking this screen shot. Free obit search ad over a Narconon Arrowhead press release? Like I said…dark.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      But super cute 😉

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Check it out. Here’s what’s been buzzing our places lately – no wonder the windows rattle.

        http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/macdill/f-18-hornets-buzzing-over-macdill-for-navy-exercise/2212730

        http://i.imgur.com/f93CFbG.jpg?1

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Dit, fucn.OOOO.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          WTF is that and why are they buzzing out asses??????????????????????

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Check out the article. Oh wait, I dont know – let me go check to see what the heck’s on our roof?

          • TheQueenofBulgravia

            Because they can! Mr Nuts was very brave to take on the hive of Hornets!….but he’s going to need a really humongous can of “RAID?”, or go on vacation somewhere else until Jan 18th! Thank You and your neighbours for giving up your peace in support of World Peace.

            • Baby Mcgee

              HI queenie.. I’ve missed you..

            • TheQueenofBulgravia

              Thanks Baby Mc. We’ve been around the Bunker (and the block a few times), but as WeOurVeryOwnSelves are Provenanced Antiques, operating on a 24 hour clock, We may have passed in the dark. We were inquiring about Baby the other day and found out she was Clear, had made a quick trip to Venus(?), returning as You! Welcome Back! (We had missed the Morph Announcement, and thought Baby Mc was a sibling….actually We were just confuzzled.)

            • Baby Mcgee

              Hahha You always make me laugh Queen.. Yes Ships passing in the night.. ; 0

              Yes.. I returned as Baby Mcgee.. The smoking baby was getting on my last nerve..I took his cigarettes away and he had a fit! So he is sitting in the corner for a week! xo

              confuzzled..haha I love that word

        • Frodis73

          Love it!

        • 0tessa

          What Bird of Prey is this?

    • Baby Mcgee

      Here’s our guy.. David Love.. to express his opinion against NarCONon.. I absolutely concur.

      • Baby Mcgee

        Hahahha When I saved this a long time ago I was thinking it said Narconon kills..

        Well we all know Narc and Sci are the same..

        • TheQueenofBulgravia

          shhhhh…..DM doesn’t know….do not spoil his denyability, someone will want to depose him….oh! “we all” want him deposed and disposed!

  • Frodis73

    Ha! Vaquera’s last post sent me down a rabbit hole too…look what I found.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/6/prweb10825051.htm

    On the Narconon Arrowhead web site they brag:about being in the peer reviewed journal Substance Abuse Research and Treatment, a Libertas Academica publication. Hmph. Never heard of it.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Snorts.!!!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Going back to bed. Let me know when Cardone has left the building.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Forrest was part of the sci-fi 1960s magazine, Spacemen. The niche market- outer space movies.

  • Odin

    I’m sick and fucking tired of the LEA refusing to acknowledge that scientology is hypnotism designed to separate their marks from their money. Wake the fuck up!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Come and visit on Saturdays.
      They are often Atack Saturdays and we are joined by several people who will claim exactly what you posit.

    • Frodis73

      Ok, this is like the 3rd time LEA has been mentioned…I still cannot figure out what it is for! Will somebody please tell me?

      • Science Doc

        Law enforcement agencies.

        • Frodis73

          D’oh!!!!!!!! I knew it was something obvious that I was missing. Thank you Doc!

          • Baby Mcgee

            Hahah doggie I thought Odin was talkin bout Leah Remini..

      • Odin

        Law Enforcement Agency

  • Baby Mcgee

    Cute kid.. Warning.. Barf bag worthy Cardone ..( NOT Cardone kid)

    throws up in mouth..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUaVH8tn9WA

    • beauty for ashes

      You mean Grant Cardone tortures children too?

      • Baby Mcgee

        Puke…

        • beauty for ashes

          Man this guy is giving me some angry scionausea and is not helping the pain in my neck by being a pain in the neck.

          • Frodis73

            New word?! Scionausea! I love it.

            • beauty for ashes

              Thanks! Feel free to use it! I drink a lot of diet ginger ale.

            • Here’s some diet ginger ale for the soul:

              5-year old does Dr Who Pandorica speech.

            • Eclipse-girl

              i have doctor jammies, and doctor who tees.
              I have beenw atching since the mid 1980s.

              I like this boy.

            • I started watching when KTEH, the San Jose public TV station would play the, when I would stay with my grandparents during the summer time, when it was a bit cooler than here in the San Joaquin Valley. That was in the mid-70s. You could even buy the British book adaptations at Recycle Bookstore in the downtown area. You could also buy British SF and Fantasy at the bookstore of San Jose State as well. Channel 2 would have Saturday night Creature Features with cheesy movies like the Monster of Party Beach. SJ Channel 36 would play Catwomen of the Moon on a weekday afternoon.

              When I was a newlywed in 1994 I went to the mall to get the Dark Horse adaptation of The Shadow movie that had come out. My wife asked the guy at the counter if they had The Shadow sheets and blankets for me to buy. 🙂

              Yeah, the kid has talent. A little couching on his timing and he’d been a hit on Ted Mack’s Amateur Hour. Yes. I’m old enough to remember it from my early childhood.

              It’s become it’s own category. I saw a Philipino boy(my wife is from the P.I.) do a version with lights and the help of his sister at night.

            • Eclipse-girl

              It is good to find other fan boys, and fan girls.

              Mr E enjoys it and would never miss an episode. Me being an obsessive type of personality can be a dangerous thing. Luckily we hooked E- daughter on the reboot and she has turned her BF onto to the show.

            • The wife and I were able to enjoy Voyager together, I used to tease her that Lt. Torres had a bad temper not from being half-Klingon but with a name like Torres it was obvious that her human half, like my noble bride, was Pilipino.

              I introduced it to a younger friend of mine about 10 years ago, and he’s hooked on that and Games of Thrones.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Did you get into the one season of Firefly?
              That was really well done, IMHO.

              We have watched all the Trek reboots.
              I think DS – 9 was very engaging.

              Do not know Game of Thrones.
              They had Sean Bean in the first season.
              He always dies, except in the Sharpe series.

            • I didn’t watch Firefly, but I’ll probably watch it in reruns on one of the channels we get. GOT is on HBO, and I’m not into blood and guts that much to subscribe to it. I like DS-9, especially Garak, as his part takes a lot of chops to do right. Along with Quark and the Grand Negus, the latter proving that Wallace Shawn is sadly underrated as an actor.

              I watched as Enterprise was run into the ground, especially with the whole time war thing. Archer made Kirk seem like an underachiever, when it should’ve been the other way around. And having a Vulcan Barbie(because Voyager’s audience increased by 60% when Seven of Nine Barbie Borg was introduced) really didn’t do that much for me. She’s Vulcan, she’s logical , you’re not going to get anywhere with her!

            • Eclipse-girl

              Wallace Shawn has always been underrated. It has to do with his not being a pretty boy, IMHO. My dinner with Andre is superb.

              I like your term of Vulcan Barbie – Jeri Ryan was there for eye candy.

              Scott Bakula was eye candy for those who preferred men. People good have lived without that reboot.

            • Frodis73

              I also adore Wallace Shawn; amazing actor and you’re right, hugely underrated.

            • Frodis73

              I just re-watched Firefly over xmas…damn, so sad it didn’t get to stick around.

            • Eclipse-girl

              BLAME FOX for that. not letting the episodes tun in the order that Joss wanted them to run.
              That messed up character development.

              Also they were battling the viewing times that FOX gave the.

              There is some fan faction about this stuff. The cast was strong. the writing was strong. but Fox was weak.

              In a way. Im glad to see it was never ruined

            • Frodis73

              I remember it was all over the map. FOX def dropped the ball. There is a kick ass documentary about how the fans got the movie made. I’m blanking on the name, but it’s still on Netflix (at least I think it is). Ah! It’s called ‘Done the Impossible’.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Thanks for that. I will put it on our viewing list.

            • beauty for ashes

              thanks! fav moment, “I AM TALKING!” 🙂

            • Mymy88

              Hi beauty for ashes. If you don’t mind my asking (and it’s totally fine with me if you don’t want to reply), but what the heck was up with THDNE and Wogsy last night? It blew my mind to see THDNE act like that. I am very loyal to Wogsy as she has been loyal and suspportive of me. If you don’t want to say anything, can you just let me know that you saw this and you know, maybe you could just say “no comment” so I would at least know you did see this. thanks! It’s bedtime for bonzo right now so I’ll check in the am and see if you have replied yet or whatever. Thanks again.

            • beauty for ashes

              I really don’t understand either, but I don’t read all the comments all the time. so I guess I hoped there was something I was not getting, because I really like both people. I also don’t like senseless arguing, and am really sensitive about it. I tried but got too frustrated to mediate. Sometimes I wish I had taken a communication course!

            • Mymy88

              The only thing I can possibly think of is THDNE does not like that Wogsy won’t say more about her experiences while she was in scientology, but even that hardly makes sense because to me, it is certainly understandable if someone does not want to talk about something unpleasant that has happened in their past, especially if it has to do with scientology.

              I’ve seen lots and lots of wogsy’s posts because I do a lot more lurking than I do posting and I have never seen Wogsy do or say anything out of line. She might push it a little sometimes, and I do the same thing.. but she has never done anything that deserves the beating THNDE tried to get Wogsy to take, which she didn’t. And I’m proud that Wogsy stood up for herself.

              Wogsy does seem to tend to restrain herself from saying much and like I said before, I think that might be what upsets THDNE.

              But I’m am still extremely SHOCKED and I mean EXTREMELY, about the things THDNE was saying.

              Plus wogsy has an internship and it’s not like she has all day to sit around and write a philosophical thesis or dissertaton to post on the board every day. sheeesh.

              And wogsy even does the red x thing, so yeah. I just don’t understand, at all. I might ask somebody else like Baby. I don’t know. I’ll have to think about it.

            • Frodis73

              Rotfl. I love this kid!!

            • Vaquera

              ^^^^^

    • Frodis73

      Puke is right. That kid is soooo adorable too. I have a sad…he is multiplying! 47X

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Forest J. Ackerman passed away a few years ago. Does that make him a Dead Agent?

  • Chee Chalker

    So I take it ‘Right here, right now’ is a favorite Co$ saying, kind of like ‘utterly’ is a favorite Co$ word.

  • After the firework vid, the first mother abuse one and his past sales vids, I won’t watch another Cardone vid. They are starting to pop up in my youtube suggestion feed. He and his family seem like ignorant jerks. I’ve seen enough evidence. I’m done.

    • Jimmy3

      That’s a hella lot better than being Cardone.

    • Eclipse-girl

      People were missing you.
      Has work interfered with your presence at the bunker?

      • No, (starts the 20th), this adorable nephew has! (F5)

        • Jimmy3

          He is adorable. And so are his froggie slippers.

          • I know, right! I want a pair in my size XD

            • Jimmy3

              Me too

        • Eclipse-girl

          He is adorable. How old?
          I am glad you are having fun.

          Two Kermies? and Kermie footies?

          • My sister did her art school senior seminar presentation on Jim Henson as her biggest artistic influence.

            • Frodis73

              That is so cool you were in a puppet troupe! I am impressed.

            • It is a surprising amount of work but hearing toddlers and small kids squeal with delight is fan-fricking-tastic. I’m just sorry it was a church one and all the shows had religious messages. Oh, well.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Muppets are important.

              daughter E chose to write a 6th grade research paper on Jim H.
              We had been fans for a long time and then learned even more about the gentleman.

            • Sidney18511

              When I first read your post, my brain read Jim Hendrix and thought “what a cool 6th grader”!

              Then I had some serious cogs. First was that the name was Jim Hanson, second was that it’s time for bed!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do not know the name HAnson.

              And yes, it is time for bed.

            • TheQueenofBulgravia

              We love the Muppets also! Some quite vintage ones are residents of The Castle.
              (not Our photo of Queen Piggy)
              http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/6183744/il_570xN.284839147.jpg

        • beauty for ashes

          Oh had the Kermit on the left!
          “Why are there so many, song about rainbows?”
          What a cute little bugger. I enjoy being an aunt, and then I give them back!

          • Yep, all the perks without much work 😀

          • Vaquera

            Darn it. Now I can’t stop humming the song.

            • Frodis73

              Me too! That song can make me cry a river.

            • Vaquera

              “It’s Not Easy Being Green” is the one that can make me weepy.

              …and now I’ve gone and stuck a song in my head.

        • Baby Mcgee

          Isn’t he the cutest Evah? awwwwwww .. he has such large eyes..

        • Vaquera

          Gimme, gimme!

        • Frodis73

          Omg, I must have that baby NOW. Like right now! That face…oh, my womb aches.
          eta-his eyebrows are cracking me up.

        • The Dude

          Love the booties. Too cute. Congrats. Awesome pic!

    • Vaquera

      Luckily, I read the comments before watching the video, therefore sparing my retinas and my memory. Thanks for taking on for the team.

      • It’s just gross. I’m not even curious anymore. Done.

        • Vaquera

          I feel the same about my ex and his child-bride. 🙂

  • The Dude

    “An adequate page filler with an occasional flash of brilliance.”. As a fan of Sci-Fi from the time I was a boy. I never saw anything that my friends would give me from Hubbard that even made it past the the third chapter (I always give a book 3 chapters before I tank it.). I need to read “Fear” and the other one he spoke of. Maybe I could actually find a Hubbard story that I enjoy. Ackerman’s recommendation is good enough for me.

    • Vaquera

      Seriously, why would you even want to go there?

      • The Dude

        I love books?

        • Vaquera

          Yeah, I get it, but there are so many great books out there. I’m being vindictive by not wanting a dead man to have the satisfaction of having one of his literary efforts appreciated.

          • The Dude

            I get that too. But if it is good I want to read it. Nuff said.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Have you read Alfred Bester?

            • The Dude

              No. F.A. mentioned MY favorite, Ray Bradbury.

            • The Dude

              And Larry Niven. And Piers Anthony. Orson Scott Card, and Philip K. Dick.

            • MaxSpaceman

              ah, PKDick. 3 Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. Ubik. priceless.

            • Eclipse-girl

              A few months back someone had a clip of Heinliein. I thought it was Heinliein.
              He was talking about the award given out by Science Fictions writers.

              I believe Alfred Bester received the first award. Bester was on his death bed.

              Bester was a great writer. His two most well known books are
              The Stars My Destination
              The Demolished Man

              I think you will enjoy them

            • The Dude

              Just looked him up. I wonder how he made it under my radar?

            • Jack99

              The Stars My Destination by Bester is a classic. The Demolished Man as well.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Fame is fleeting?
              Other newer writers took his place?

              I think you will enjoy Bester.

          • Baby Mcgee

            Girl..I hear ya Texas..I mean if I can boycott all Celebrities I certainly can boycott Hubs shit that started this whole mess.. ugh.. He gives me the creeps.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Because if it’s any good, we’d finally have something nice to say about Hubs so the Indy’s wouldn’t be butt hurt anymore.

      • The Dude

        I remember when I was a boy and I saw Jeff Hawkins’s T.V. commercial for Dianetics. I immediately thought to myself, “What does a two-bit Sci-Fi writer know that anyone else does? Fools.” His books sucked. Why would I trust a boring Sci-Fi guy for life’s mysteries?

    • Frodis73

      I also want to read Fear based on what Stephen King (and others) said about it.

      • MaxSpaceman

        and Final Blackout. also Typewriter in the Sky. The 3 Ellison said were his best. ( iirc )

        • Bob

          I liked Final Blackout. It was ahead of its time. It encapsulates what Hubbard wished he could be and was the foundation for his idealistic view of an effective cadre. As well It was an early view of the apocalypse. He was on the right track with that kind of writing. He should have stuck with that but starting a religion was so much more lucrative and he could live out his fantasies and lecture to his hearts content. He loved to talk.
          I think that when he had to go underground he lost his main joy. To sit in front of an adoring audience and tell tale tails.

          • MaxSpaceman

            and with L Ron El Ray bringing in so much money, after Saint Hill, he never really lived large – the irony that with his massive cash horde and wealth stash he could do no better than live in a R V the last few years. He created his own fortress prison of sourceness.

            • Bob

              Correct. He lived small no matter how much money he had. I saw it first hand.
              Saint Hill was his apex. After that it was all down hill.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      And this is why you are a better person than 99% of people still in the cult. You can look beyond Hubbard’s wretched lies and still want to find something good. No one still inside the bubble would allow themselves the same respect in return to us critics. It’s only once they leave Hub-space that rationality and reason can return. You’re alright Dude. Glad you’re here.

      • The Dude

        Thanks man! I needed that. Right back atcha!
        It’s not so much that I want to find something good about Hubbard. I figure that if he wrote that story before he started his Grand Scam, then maybe it is a sincere story without his usual over the top campy-ness.

        • The Dude

          And also I would like to maybe see what all my boyhood friends thought was so god about his books. I had a friend that loved all his books. Blech!

    • Eclipse-girl

      The other book FA mentioned was World War 33.

      Fear is the only ones others have recommended.

    • MaxSpaceman

      two more are part of the ones Harlan Ellison, iirc, said were his best. “Final Blackout” and “Typewriter in the Sky”.

      • Final Blackout, meh.

      • Thank God Travolta never made Typewriter in the Sky as a movie when he was younger. It was gay camp and it would’ve been a decent hit. It’s the only book I think was good.

    • Robert Eckert

      Nathan Johnson reads these things so you don’t have to:

      http://missionspork.blogspot.com/2014/08/fear-specifically-ophidiophobia.html

    • Missionary Kid

      My feelings exactly about Hubbard’s writing. I’d read enough of the pulp fiction that had survived from the 30s and early 40s to recognize the overblown, breathless style when I picked up Battlefield to see it for what it was. I wondered how the hell this book got past an editor, let alone published, as well as why it had sold so many.

      IIRC, I made it to about page 40. I found it turgid, overblown, and soporific, and those are my good comments.

      Science fiction had evolved so much since he quit writing for the magazine market in the 50s and the quality had been elevated so far that it was a throwback not deserving of my time.

      • Bob

        MK, Battlefield Earth is one of the greatest Scifi books ever written. That’s why the movie was so successful.

        • Missionary Kid

          I really laughed out loud at your reply. Great Snark!

          • Bob

            Glad to make you laugh

    • Bob

      The reason Harlan Ellison like Fear was because Hubbard copied Elisons style of writing. Copying someone is the highest form of compliment.

      • TheQueenofBulgravia

        The reason Harlan Ellison like Fear was because Hubbard copied Elisons style of writing. Copying someone is the highest form of compliment. 😉

        • Bob

          If you are a Harlan Elison in its quite obvious that Hubbard borrowed copiously from Elison. When I first read fear I was impressed. Hubbards talks about his ability to write in any style. He mentions writing a western in Shakespears style.

    • Snake Plissken

      The Scientology Crime Syndicate issues more propaganda press releases than North Korea and they are just about as effective.

  • 2 days

    • Baby Mcgee

      NOT my creation..but jazzed it up with different color..

      • It’s perfect!

        • Baby Mcgee

          It is isn’t it Dodo? I am going to bed.. If someone could post this when Tony’s post comes up it would be nice.. Thanks if someone can..

          I will be on later in the Pm.. xo baby

  • New short video: Church of Scientology – where everyone one loses

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPtCoGjdC8I

    • Tony Ortega

      New? It debuted here at the Bunker nearly two years ago…

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/15/video-what-did-you-lose-in-scientology/

      • Oops. Well, new for me. I missed it somehow.
        Eta: Good morning, Tony 🙂

        • EnthralledObserver

          Not that I didn’t believe you, but you are right, you did not comment that day, so didn’t see it. Haha… and it was much easier to check… only 263 comments back then. 😉

          • Thanks for checking! I started worrying about my memory for a second.

  • Pierrot

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    The score for yesterday is 143 new/refreshed ads bringing the Last 4 Days UP from 439 to 451
    and the 7 days Regional List UP from 629 to 661.
    RedX write up : https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-117#post-2494321
    RedX spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml
    FREELOADER Debt is ILLEGAL and CAN’T BE ENFORCED.
    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    Anonymous by Dark Geometry Art, enhanced for RedX by DodoTheLaser, flickred by Aegerprimo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/15402066110/in/set-72157642802079293

  • valshifter

    You don’t have to read Excalibur to become insane or want to commit suicide inside the Sea Org.

  • valshifter

    The fat bastard had to be followed around town to pay a debt of $3,500 in typical scientology fashion, “file the debts we are not in a hurry to pay”

  • Andrew Porter

    I forwarded the link for this to my list of Usual Suspects, aka science fiction news blogs, interested people, and people in the science fiction field, plus to various Yahoo Groups I’m in, including “FictionMags”, “SouthernFandomClassic”, and “Pulpmags”. Great link, Tony!

  • Forry was just the best guy, one of those people you wished would live forever. I wonder what ever happened to all his great stuff and his wishes for a Sci-Fi museum?

  • InterestedObserver12

    Forrie’s full interview is the best record of what me and my peers were going through using Dianetics, Scientology 8-8008 and 8-80 while high on LSD/ psilocybin/mescaline in the late 60s and early 70s. We weren’t seduced into Hubbard’s world – we climbed the walls and begged to be let in. Took us years to learn it was the psychedelic stew that astounded us, not Hubbard’s tedious vagaries.

  • Bob Crouch

    It’s good to see that at least in Alaska the cult’s hiring is honest enough to let on that they’ll devour you without a second thought! Sometimes the truth just slips out like that…

  • rotulette

    At first I really thought this was joke (for real) that it showed a wog jumping in an org… Am I wrong…

  • JennyAtLAX

    Re: Scientology Alaska Mission is Hiring

    JENNYATLAX: My good friend, Tommy Davis, has a good sense of adventure, don’t you, Tommy?

    DAVIS: Buddy, you got it, right here, right now!

    JENNYATLAX: Tommy, you’ve seen the advertisement from the Mission with the bear shouting at the fish. If you were that big bad bear, what would you say to that little fishie?

    DAVIS: Buddy, you got it, right here, right now!

    JENNYATLAX: I heard, Tommy, that you’re SRD-HQS Sup-trained and that there’s actually more than one of you. What do all of you say about jumping feet first with this opportunity in Anchorage?

    DAVIS: Buddy, we got it, right here, right now!

    JENNYATLAX: Tommy, its been said that with your lack of social veneer, high level of confront and “let’s just get it done” attitude, you’d actually never make it in some backward little dump like the Mission in Anchorage. How do you respond to that?

    DAVIS: Buddy, you got it, right here, right now. I’m angry, real angry!

    JENNYATLAX: You CAN be a part of it all, Tommy!

    DAVIS: Right here, right now!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/6647285.stm

  • Jane

    No doubt American as well as British readers know that Excalibur was King Arthur’s sword. There is an old and powerful legend that Arthur and his knights lie sleeping in a mountain waiting for England’s hour of need, when they will return. With the current scientology ‘thing’ about knights riding white horses and processions of torches it looks like they are still trying to connect with that. There are also constant and striking analogies between scientology and Christianity, where scientology teachings are a counterfeit copy of something Christian. I am interested that, given that St Paul talks at some length about ‘sword of the (Holy) Spirit’ being used in spiritual warfare, Hubbard chooses to call his secret weapon document Excalibur.
    I know this is weird mystical magical stuff but Hubbard was into that stuff, and it is also what ‘OT powerz’ are.

  • richelieu jr

    Wow, I can’t help it. I saved Forrey’s interviez until I had time to really listen and enjoy it, but I ended up giving myself a sad… He was sucha great guy and this interview really gives youa glimpse at ‘Forrey le Raconteur”, one of my favorite aspects of his personality, and one he entertained me with so many times in his dining room…

    You know, it is hard to imagine, but the first time I met him (taking his little tour of his “museum”), not only was I a bit intimidated, but I thought he seemed kind of cranky and mean… Part of thsi was his ‘Mr Mysterious’ act and rap that he laid on pretty thick for the small group of visitors (and even thicker for any pretty young ladies in the group) and part may just have been his face which reminded me of the stern visage of my sixth grade science teacher, Mr Peccorelli, but I am glad to say that it fell away so quickly it is hard for me to evebelieve Id felt that way, even for a second…

    I was sad when he had to close his ‘museum’ and sad to learn of his passing, though it had been years and years since we’d spoken…

    And I was sad just niw… Silly, it’s not like he was my best friend or that we even saw eachother that often, or over a very long period. I suppose he just represented something to me, from the time I read Famous Monsters for the first time, to the last time I saw him waving goodbye from his porch… I’m sure I probably didn’t figure in his 100 best friends…

    But I just really liked the guy. I was proud to know him… And I miss him. i’d like just one more cuppa in his dining room, one more excursion to search a book which had a passage which referred to exactly zhar I’d mentioned, or that underlined the point he was trying to make, but that once found, no longer related to the subject at hand, or simply slipped us down another winding slide in our endless coversation… Only it ended.

    Wish I’d asked him about Hubbard, but the subject never came up. We had better people to talk about, and better-looking monsters…

  • richelieu jr

    Hey!

    Anyone else notice something just behind Forrey in the interview? Too perfect!,,

    A Cylon(!!!) from the original BSG! I suppose it must have been a happy accident, but what wonderful luck!

  • Sunni Brock

    We did a documentary on Forry Ackerman, called the Ackermonster Chronicles. He also told us some of this stuff about Hubbard, but we didn’t use it in our film.

  • TrishRan

    If reading Excalibur could make someone crazy, what would that say about the person who wrote it?

    uh oh