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Scientology and ‘aliens’: What did L. Ron Hubbard actually say about space invaders?

spaceopera2

 
Leah Remini’s A&E series, Scientology and the Aftermath, has kicked up a lot of new interest in Scientology, particularly on social media. So we’re seeing a lot of great questions about the subject popping up on places like Twitter. (And we’ve tried to answer some of them at our feed, @TonyOrtega94.)

Naturally, people new to the subject tend to express amazement about some of Scientology’s more bizarre space opera tenets. And a few Scientologists do their best to tamp down that interest. In particular, some church members are touchy about the subject of outer space “aliens” in the cosmology of Scientology.

Two years ago, actor Giovanni Ribisi, during an appearance on Marc Maron’s podcast, said, “I have never ever heard of aliens in Scientology, and I’ve been a Scientologist all my life.” When Maron then asked him if, in fact, the idea of “thetans” in Scientology was the church’s version of space aliens, Ribisi objected…

Well, that’s not an alien. The concept of a thetan comes from this notion of what’s called theta, right? And the idea of a thetan is essentially the person. It’s the Scientology term for a spirit.

Got that? Thetans — the spirits that make up all of us — may have spent millions and billions of years in previous lives in other bodies on other planets and in other galaxies, but we’re all just spiritual beings and it’s incorrect to call such spiritual entities “aliens.”

That’s not just a cute lexical sleight of hand. Scientologists use it as a thought-stopping technique. This week, for example, as questions about Scientology heated up online, church defenders tried to shut down critics by telling them they were incorrect about “aliens” and Scientology…

 
And we’ve even heard from ex-Scientologists who caution us against bringing up the subject; they tell us that talking about space aliens only reinforces to Scientologists that you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you should be ignored.

Well, fair enough. As Marc Headley explained in that story about Vonni Ribisi and Marc Maron two years ago, many Scientologists never get very far on the “Bridge to Total Freedom” and may not be exposed to such esoteric secrets as the “OT 3” materials, for example. Headley told us that he really only learned about Scientology’s space opera beliefs after he left the church, and he’d worked at its secretive International Base with its highest ranking executives for fifteen years!

We do understand that many Scientologists never go Clear or learn the secrets of the OT levels. But does that mean that the rest of us can’t examine what L. Ron Hubbard was driving at with Scientology?

Because once again, we can’t help wondering, have Scientologists who say space aliens play no part in Scientology actually read and listened to this guy?

Hubbard started things with a 1950 book, Dianetics, which proposed the idea that you could unleash amazing hidden powers by recalling what had happened to you as a fetus in the womb and by wiping away traumatic memories that were masking your true inner self.

By 1952, however, Hubbard’s followers weren’t satisfied with only going back to the womb. They wanted to “remember” things that had happened earlier, in past lives. And with an electronic device called the E-meter, Hubbard told them they could remember these experiences with infallible scientific precision. You could recall not only what had happened to you in previous centuries, but even millions or billions of years back, or farther.

And he had come out with a truly remarkable book, A History of Man, to help his counselors (called “auditors”) recognize some of the memories that their subjects would be recalling when they went back that far. Because, you see, Hubbard proposed that as explorers of the human mind, Scientologists were mapping out a common past.

In a lecture he gave in London on October 30, 1952, Hubbard explained that not only is this common past something we’ve all “agreed” to, but that “it’s actually true.” Here, listen to this short portion of the lecture for yourself. We’ve transcribed it in a brief Fair Use segment from the lecture, titled “Role of Earth”….

 

 
Hubbard is saying that you can take any Scientology counseling subject — a “preclear” — and put them on the meter, and it will turn out that they remember experiencing these elements of space opera, including “entities” (loose, unseen thetans), “bodies in pawn” (a bizarre idea about a person having a second body in a vat of fluid) and spaceships. And no matter who you put on the meter, these same memories will come up because they are actual incidents from our collective past. Anyone off the street — not even necessarily a Scientologist — would come up with the same results, because they are remembering a past that is real.

So Hubbard then goes into a specific example. He’s going to tell you about a young woman who is terrified that Scientology auditing is allowing her to suddenly “remember” her own role in that wild space opera narrative that we all have in common. (This segment follows immediately after the last.)

 

 
In Hubbard’s tale, the young woman undergoing auditing from him is overwhelmed with the knowledge that she sees herself in another life that she has no knowledge of. She’s sitting at a “communications panel” — on board a spaceship somewhere, perhaps. Hubbard isn’t fazed; he asks her for the codes on the panel, but she passes out. Hubbard explains that it was too much for her — she was overwhelmed because she wasn’t used to the idea that in a previous life she’d played a part in space opera. “She’d never heard of bodies in pawn or other governments or invader forces or anything of the sort,” he says. But for Hubbard, it’s old hat. In fact, he boasts to his credulous audience that he knows what to ask her because he’s been here before in his own mental trips into the distant past: “This is a very funny thing to say, but I happen to know her commanding officer!”

In the next segment, which follows immediately after the last, Hubbard tells a story about another young woman he had audited who had also recovered a memory of working at a communications panel. In her current life, this young woman knows nothing about electronics. But auditing is helping her remember a time when she was not only working in communications, but she was helping to run “space stations” that are in the asteroid belt of our solar system…

 

 
Hubbard repeats the common misconception that the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter is the remains of a broken up planet. It isn’t. All of the asteroids put together make up only about 4 percent the mass of our moon, and their chemical compositions show that they come from diverse sources anyway. But Hubbard and his subjects “remember” with the E-meter that the asteroids and their low gravity are used as launching and landing points for ships coming from other galaxies. And that role as a launching pad has thrust this solar system into prominence. It’s known as “Space Station 33” to interstellar wanderers, Hubbard says.

Because of that prominence, a “Fourth Invader Force” has inhabited parts of the solar system for “skillions” of years, Hubbard says. And they were here long before a “Fifth Invader Force” arrived sometime later, not realizing that the Fourth Force was already here. The Fifth Invaders set up a complex operation on Mars with a sophisticated screen to keep us from detecting them, or something.

Anyway, the Fifths started losing crews, and still didn’t realize that they had infringed on Fourths territory. So, some 8,200 years ago, the Fifth Invader Force, trying to solve the mystery of its missing crews, sent a battalion down to the earth and set up a base in the Himalayas.

And to emphasize how easy this was, Hubbard says that there was no reason to worry about the locals living there. Why not? Because those locals were HOMO SAPIENS….

 

 
Did you get that? The Fifth Invader Force didn’t worry about setting up a base on earth because the only thing in their way were HUMAN BEINGS. So what, we ask you, does that make the beings of the Fifth Invader Force?

They had come from somewhere beyond our solar system, perhaps even from beyond our galaxy, and they were traveling in spaceships, and they set up an operation on Mars and they came to earth and they did not fear Homo Sapiens because they were not Homo Sapiens. Because they were….

SPACE ALIENS. The meaning of which is, extraterrestrials, beings from a planet other than Earth.

It gets even better. Hubbard explains that the Fourth Invader Force finally emerged and kicked that Fifth Invader Force battalion’s ass, and then “knocked them back into this human race here.”

Again, Hubbard must specify “human race” because THE FIFTH INVADER FORCE WERE NOT HUMAN BEINGS.

The Fourth Invader Force, which specializes in this kind of thing, had separated the spirits (thetans) from the bodies of the battalion, and then had implanted those spirits into the human race.

And, as Hubbard says, “they’re still here.”

Because yes, Scientology (or at least Hubbard) says that we human beings today have inside us the disembodied souls of space aliens.

If you say it that way, your typical Scientologist (or even ex-Scientologist) will argue that you don’t have the slightest understanding of Scientology and that you are an ignorant wog. In Hubbard’s cosmology, they will tell you, there are thetans but not aliens.

Go ahead, let them say that. But we have Hubbard’s own words, and they are quite clear.

A month and a half after he gave this lecture in London, Hubbard returned to the subject of invader forces in a December 13, 1952 lecture in Philadelphia. He said that not only could you find invader ancestors in current human beings, but that you could also find a number of other bizarre types, including Snake Men and Cat People.

“God knows where the Cat People came from. Lord! Lord! Lord! These people are sure lost. Most of them are mad as hatters. And they have huge, huge, often slanted…And the eyes will be big and quite often uh.. uh.. very feline. And they’re lost. They don’t know where they are. And they kinda look like cats. And they’ll talk to you about catbirds from some place or another.”

Hubbard reveals that there are some “12 or 15 thetan races here on Earth” that can be found in the “five [human] races” on the planet.

It’s good to know that we have some Snake Man and Cat People alien blood running through our veins.

So what became of the Fourth and Fifth Invader Forces? Eleven years later, in a 1963 lecture he gave in the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, Hubbard returns to the subject, explaining that the two invader forces continue to operate on Mars and Venus, where they run “implant stations.”

These invaders go to enormous trouble to capture us when we die and leave our bodies. As a thetan, you are whisked to Venus or Mars, where you will have false memories implanted about the way that you died, for some reason. (And Derek Bloch first brought to our attention that Hubbard, decades before John Gray came along, suggested that men tended to be taken to Mars, and women to Venus.) After this memory wiping and implanting, you then get to return to earth, where you head to a maternity ward to jump into a newborn and start another life.

Because of these invaders and their between-life implanting, we can’t really make any progress. And in his 1963 lecture, Hubbard at times seems at a genuine loss why these invading don’t-call-them-aliens are doing this to us.

“They’ve maintained it for thousands of years without any change…Why are they maintaining this thing? Why? Why is it so important to them?”

He concludes that Earth must be a prison planet, and the invaders are our jailers. And so you begin to see where the “Bridge to Total Freedom” is actually supposed to take you — it’s a prison break so we can escape our alien jailers!

The very fact that this is a prison planet, that it is being monitored this carefully right this minute … Right this instant, as I’m talking here, some Joe off this planet has appeared on that landing stage and is being told how he just got through an airplane crash, whereas the guy probably died of pneumonia. See? Right this minute, you see. And this instant, another guy did. In other words, this is a continuing situation that’s going on and on and on and on and on. Gives you an understanding of what’s happening.

Only through the highest-level Scientology processing can you beef up your superpowers so that you can resist the between-life implanting and live as an all-powerful “operating” thetan.

This, then, is the actual end-goal of Scientology. To break free from our alien invaders and become free, exteriorized, and all-powerful thetans. And come on, that’s pretty fun and exciting, as cosmologies go.

It’s a shame that Scientology does everything it can to hide it, even from most of its own members.

 
——————–

HowdyCon2017

Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on December 12, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Lousy Ratatouille

    ALIENS EXIST. THEY ARE EVEN TRYING TO WARN US ABOUT THE CON THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PYI6TzqYk

  • Panopea Abrupta

    O/T, totally O/T

    But I had to beta-test that moose I’m making for his
    Christmas/Solstice/Hanukkah present.
    Looks like a winner.

    Now to make the antlers –
    I have an old moose antler some friends found on a
    canoe trip in Maine years ago that I can use for the job.
    A porcupine had gnawed chunks off it.
    Perfect for carving though 🙂

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1442e7d74b13a282d05108de6de7ba87e62cbfced20dd1d6172e6c7d273b483c.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1cfe710d1b221185aabbdf6052f238c84ef37a31c659b84bc9b53a2fe133ecaa.jpg

    • Juicer77

      Speaking of gnawing, look at dem teefs!! Just give him the chunk of antler as is. 😉

      • gtsix

        Spoken like a puppeh caregiver 😉

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I love a) your smallest human, b) the moose. I especially love how smooth you’ve managed to get those wheels!

    • Kim O’Brien

      gimmie those cheeks right now

    • Antlers might be too pookey. Maybe felt or stuffed nylons. Maybe brown pipe cleaners? Cute as can be child 🙂

    • LongtimeLurker

      He wuvs it!

      As do I.

  • Eliza Doolittle

    Never before have the words ‘totally’ and ‘batshit’ been more appropriate.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Words truly do not suffice…but in keeping with the scientological theme here, “epic” and “monumental” quickly jump to mind 😉

      • Eliza Doolittle

        Indeed. I think we can throw the clam dictionary at this one..

    • LongtimeLurker
      • Eliza Doolittle

        OMFG, there’s me not sleeping tonight..

        *similaaah*

        : /

        • LongtimeLurker

          Right?

          I think he was just trying to keep himself entertained at that point.

  • flyonthewall

    Personally I think there’s a good chance aliens exist. If you consider how vast the universe is (yes a lot of it is just empty space but still) and how little of it we’ve explored, saying flat out that we’re the only form of intelligent life out there seems a little crazy to me. It would be like walking around your block and saying that nothing exists beyond it. I don’t think that aliens like the pulp sci-fi ones Hubbard talks about exist but I do think the chances of other intelligent life existing out there somewhere is good.

    • Draco

      Ditto.

    • Lucille Austero

      And these aliens that exist have their own LRH 👽 telling them that they’ve got humans in their underpants.

      • Nat-leficent

        Ha! Love it

    • Princess Squishy

      agreed, and I’m a Christian, and I don’t think that Aliens has to challenge your belief in a Christian God.

      • flyonthewall

        idk, if you think about christianity/aliens too much it kind of falls apart. Like, do aliens go to heaven? Do they have to believe in Jesus or do they have their own Jesus type figure God made for them so that they can get into heaven? Why aren’t aliens mentioned in the bible or dinosaurs for that matter? So many questions

        • Techie

          “The Last Battle”, C S Lewis. Not a completely coherent answer to your question, but an example of a way to approach the issue. The questions are unanswerable if you interpret the Bible literally, but almost no one does that really.

        • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

          According to Christian truthers, aliens are fallen angels.

          • flyonthewall

            sounds legit

        • Princess Squishy

          Maybe the aliens didn’t “fall” like man did and they don’t need a savior. If Adam and Eve hadn’t sinned they would’ve had no need for a savior (though that’s not to say someone after them would not have sinned). Maybe the aliens did fall and they have their own Jesus type figure, or maybe Jesus went there and died for them too. Maybe they didn’t have free will and didn’t have the option to fall. Maybe they aren’t mentioned in the bible because they were created after us. Maybe they aren’t mentioned in the bible because they came before us but their existence was never made known to any of the writers of the bible. As of yet we humans have yet to see verifiable proof of aliens, so we can’t necessarily expect that the men that wrote the books of the bible had met aliens.
          I don’t know why dinosaurs aren’t mentioned in the bible. Elephants, cats and penguins (to name a few) also aren’t mentioned in the bible, but Leviathan is mentioned, which is also translated to sea monster or sea snake, so who knows what that actually is. There are some things that are somewhat difficult to swallow, or that we wish were more clearly explained in the bible. But I don’t need to have everything explained to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, that’s why it is faith and not science. I will clarify that just because I am a Christian and believe in God I DO NOT agree with hardly anything christians are supposed to think politically, mostly because I don’t think we belong in politics. Our biblical morals should not be making the laws. I do not believe that we are a ‘Christian Nation’ and that we need to get back to our ‘Christian roots’ I don’t believe in proselytizing and trying to “save” people. My beliefs are my business, your beliefs and life are your business, and nobody’s beliefs should be abusing others. It’s bad when Scientology is as messed up as it is and its bad when people go out and discriminate against others in the name of christianity.

          • Frodis73

            I wish there were more Christians like you. 🙁 Unfortunately, it seems you are outnumbered by the more Taliban like types. Actually, I know that is not true…it is just that they make so much noise and are in our politics doing real damage.

            • Princess Squishy

              They do make so much noise. It gives us a bad name

      • There are a few science-fiction stories out there where the crucifixion and redemption are played out in other cultures, by other races.

        Also, the James Blish novel “A Case of Conscience” in which a newly-contacted, supremely rational race which does not understand the concept of the fall of Man, turns out to be (literally) Satanic.

        It’s amazing how much science fiction plays with theological themes.

        • Techie

          Can’t remember the author, but there is a classic SF story where the explorers discover the remnants of a supernova and calculate that it happened at the right time to be the Star of Bethlehem. Maybe “Star Bright”, Mark Clifton?

          • No – I remember this one – it was “The Star” by Arthur C Clarke.

            A starship approaches a supernova remnant to discover the records of an admirable civilisation, that had been completely wiped out, in a vault on a rocky outer planet.

            The astrophysicist on board is a Jesuit (that order having a great tradition of astronomy). He calculates that the nova was indeed the Star of Bethlehem, and the birth of Christ was announced by a terrible natural genocide. He is bereft.

            Edit: The last line, spoken by the priest is:

            Oh God, there were so many stars you could have used. What was the need to give these people to the fire, that the symbol of their passing might shine above Bethlehem?

            • LongtimeLurker

              Not much of a Clarke fan, but that one was pretty great.

            • Me neither. His writing always struck me as more of a description of a story than an actual narrative, and his characters were never particularly convincing as real people.

              However, he did write some pretty good stuff, now and again.

              “The Nine Bilion Names of God” was in the same style as “The Star”, and that was memorable, too.

            • LongtimeLurker

              “…a description of a story than an actual narrative…”

              Is a very good description.

    • chukicita

      We’re the intelligent life?

      *sound of dolphins laughing*

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Yep, once you become aware of exactly how vast the universe is (billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars), then it would be very odd indeed if life didn’t evolve in other places within it. The relatively recent focus on finding exo-planets that have earth-like properties has made that possibility seem even more probable as well.

      And if that’s not the case, and we truly are all alone in all this vastness, then this planet and every single one of the life forms that exist upon it are truly rare and miraculous, and therefore worthy of our most careful and attentive stewardship!

    • It would be very arrogant to believe that we are alone!

      • Kim O’Brien

        also arrogant to think that if they do exist …that they are here , killing cows and probing anus’s

        • yes… why on earth would they come here and probe a cow?

          • Kim O’Brien

            or a human 😉

    • downtherabbithole

      I am quite happy with my small world of loving friends and family. I have no need or desire to entertain anything more than that

  • RK

    That Scientologists aren’t exposed to the space opera part of Scientology is just pure hogwash. It is entwined in Hubbard lectures all the time. Every time it came up I had to rely on the “if it isn’t true for you” strategy of dealing with Scientology’s teachings. I got the feeling that people had swallowed a placebo, but were playing at being high in an effort to be in the “in” hallucinatory crowd.

  • Phil Jones
  • iampissed

    Morning all

    • LongtimeLurker

      I’m late, but how is everything?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    As someone who has spent considerable time as a non-resident alien,
    I feel it is important that we not be con fused with the Fifth Invader Force
    or the Fourth or any others.
    In fact, we are not invaders at all.

    We come in peace.
    Now, I’m dying for a drink.

    Take me to your litre.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/49e64f4643a39aa4dcd0b8d4506f57ec09a16c189e079a64dff2f9c4ea4d1aa9.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6843b70c0476543fd67770fc361d18974738ffa0461d68bdaa57187bd1a6ec77.jpg

    • iampissed

      No hitting redheads loud…I won’t stand of it I tells ya.

    • flyonthewall

      i was also a non-res alien! cool

    • If that’s Tom Cruise, it must have been several surgery/botox cycles ago.

      • April

        This pic looks like it was taken during the Born on the 4th of July movie era, so about 1989?

  • Every scientologist and even the man on the street has access to this Alien Warfare. I simply don’t see how they can deny any of this. Definition from their Tech Dict: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5709d37ba7625a8485fdb381bafcd2fa773dd1a5430d05140c2dd67e86c19b09.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/be9ef5a709b53dff3e2c15e349131868a6fef2e91191fa5d9ff4b3372765acfe.png

    • itsIBBy

      my eyeballs crossed trying to make sense of that. Scientology is like bad fan fic.

      • it is some of the first thing newbees is looking up when they see those dictionaries in the bookstore, this is not a secret -lol

    • I’m still puzzling over the question of why intense gravity should lead to the development of electronics…

      • well… stop thinking about it 🙂

        • Wise words.

          After all, puzzling over such nonsense is exactly what Hubbard often intended people to do when he wrote it.

          • OT: Remember the Ganzel Effect?… Have you noticed this about Astronaut’s who claims the to have seen this and that out there? Someone must have another likely explanation on this phenomenon. Just wondering if you had any on this?

            • Space is an environment that we were just not designed for, and astronauts are under all kinds of pressure while they are there (not least the constant risk of suddenly dying).

              There are multiple reasons (pretty much understood by the people who study these things) why they should miss-perceive things and why they should have strange subjective experiences.

              The miracle is not that this should happen, but that these people are so astonishingly stable that it happens so rarely and, even when it does, they still do their job properly.

            • but i mean, those astronauts comes out and claim they have seen spaceships and other strange things up there. Many become seriously religious after a trip!

            • I can understand that… one of the Apollo people (I forget whom) thought he received telepathic messages on the moon, and spent time researching this when he got home (to no avail).

              However, he was on the moon. If anything is going to lead to altered states of consciousness that’s got to be high on the list. He landed on the moon in a vehicle (the LEM) that was made of aluminium thinner than a Coke tin – so thin, they could have punctured it with a careless movement.

              Pilots will tell you how easy it is to become seriously disoriented in the air. In bad weather, they can see things and think they are right-way-up when they are actually flying inverted. These people go into environments that nobody has ever had experience of.

              You have to cope with all that somehow…

            • This is interesting and i can see some parallels with this! Thanks

      • Harpoona Frittata

        I was going to comment on exactly that point…before being overwhelmed by a wave of additional idiocy as I read on, that is.

        There’s just no logical connection made there to explain why beings on a heavy gravity planet would be especially likely to develop electronics. Are folks from light gravity planets just having too much fun bouncing about like their whole world’s a trampoline, or what!?

        • It’s a characteristic of Hubbard’s pronouncements that they seem to make sense, but don’t. Some take just a little more thought before they stand revealed as bullshit. Others (like the supposed relationship between gravity and electronics) must only be taken seriously by true believers who decide that they aren’t smart enough to discern why.

          It takes me back to some research which I discussed here https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/why-people-believe-that-l-ron-hubbards-bullshit-is-actually-profound/ which tried to discover why some people believe that obvious bullshit is actually profound.

          • Harpoona Frittata

            It’s a very disheartening view of human nature until you realize that $cn has essentially creamed the crop when it comes to the most credulous and gullible among us. By the time they make it that far up the bridge, they’ve already culled out all but the most credulous and uncritical.

            I totally get the attraction of attaining ultimate spiritual freedom and realizing your immortality because I once was attracted to all that way back when too. However, to remain in the cult these days seems to also require having a very submissive, even masochistic, nature when it comes to having to kiss DM’s ass and put up with all manner of personal affronts, disrespect and demands on your time and resources. I was never a very good follower even in my most cult-believin’ days as a young adult, so I got culled (or rather, self-selected out) much earlier on in the cult indoctrination program.

            Now, I’d tell any of these fools exactly where to step off in a half second, and do it politely and without the slightest bit of internal distress either. Hey, come to think of it, I really do feel like I’ve attained the tone 40 ability to confront and shatter suppression! Unfortunately for the cherch, I now consider $cn to be the source of suppression 😉

            • I don’t know it’s as much culling all but the credulous and uncritical. The ex-Scientologists I have met are very far from stupid. There may be an element of that, sometimes.

              Personally, I think it’s more a matter of catching people (any people) when they are vulnerable, ‘finding their ruin’ and persuading them to give it a try (what do you have to lose). From that point, beginners are progressively socially isolated until they lose perspective. Eventually they are in a state which Jana Lalich described in her book ‘bounded choice’ – their options are limited to those offered by Scientology and they constantly make a choice of evils.

              In extreme cases, people have lived for decades (or their entire life) with family, friends, employer, dentist – everyone they know, a Scientologist. That’s difficult to escape from, and they see no alternative to putting with the institutional sadism – it’s always been their life.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              After reading today’s blog post on Leah’s renewed effort to find out exactly what happened to Shelly, I found myself searching for a concise way of describing someone who is all but physically imprisoned. Wright’s coined description of a $cn as a whole being a “prison of belief” captures it in a vivid visual analogy that is very memorable.

              So, True Believers within this prison with no physical bars (that’s not counting The Hole, of course) are prisoners of their own belief, and could be said to be in that predicament as a result of living a life of “bounded choice,” which for folks like Shelly have lived with for so long that it is really all they know and all they can imagine as their future.

              For those of who were drawn into the cult as young adults, we retained memories of a childhood and adolescence long before any contact with $cn and will always have that as a touchstone of contrasting memory. But for folks like Shelly, DM and many others who were raised within the cult throughout their formative year, they never made a choice of their own free will as adults to join the cult, they were always part of it and only have memories of being part of it.

              The indoctrination of children and the Sea Orgy’s deliberate targeting of teens for recruitment has to be some of their most diabolically evil acts because it acts to isolate them from the larger society and make whatever choice they may have so bounded that you could hardly call it choice at all.

            • I recommend the book “Bounded choice” by Janja Lalich. It does not mention Scientology, but is intensely relevant to it.

              Lalich was a member of political cult for some years, and the story of the final collapse of the leaders authority is utterly fascinating.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              Thanks, I’ll check it out.

      • Frodis73

        Good to know I am not alone in my puzzlement over that one…it bugged me part of the day actually. Lol.

        • I concluded that ‘electronics’ meant something completely different in Hubbard’s fantasy lexicon, and it all made sense to him while he was writing it, in the same way that dream logic makes sense when you are asleep.

      • grundoon

        In time, L. Ron Hubbard working alone would produce the works of 100 monkeys at 100 typewriters.

    • The problem with Einstein-Hubbard, is that he claims his knowledge from the “whole track” using his e-meter so he could sell his services to those who bought his stories. This is how it all started back then while he probably was on drugs… idk! (Tony has a post on this recording. The link is in the notes on youtube)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CEsS2LaYx0

    • invader forces = the ol’ “fake news / wikileaks” paradigm shift? didn’t quite take several million years after all.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Space opera “truth,” verified by the e-meter, what fun! Now, if you’ll just take a close look at these chicken entrails, you’ll be sure to notice that Elron, posing as this folksy sci-fi writer turned enlightened master is, in real reality, Xenu himself!

      I seriously can’t believe that I – as a non-psychotic, non-psychedelic drug using, reasonably intelligent young adult – actually read this crap and didn’t turn in my thetan at the front desk and walk out of $cn forever!

    • Sherbet

      Oh, come on! COME ON, you idiot! (And, no, I don’t mean you, Dice.)

      • Thank Gooooood for that… Hey did you see my Avartar board game i made for you?

    • Bleuler

      So no clam reads the tech dictionary?

  • Spike Robinson

    Hey diddely ho Bunkerinos, coming back ever so briefly to Earth.

    Jon Atack has been inspired: this week, he starts us off with part one of a 3-part blog on the Cult Personality, adapted from a blog originally published here at the Bunker. Enjoy! http://openmindsfoundation.org/undue-influence-explanation/doubling-or-the-self-divided1

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a0dddc1f3a92fdcc6dbba429d1d643d32cd2b2ad694d10df0fcd52e0b09c68e5.jpg

    • Link corrected after a refresh (F5)

      • Spike Robinson

        Thanks – I saw my goof and edited it, but Disqus is prolly still putting out the original link, because, internets. So thanks for spotting me. 🙂

  • Orglodyte

    Almost all of the above information, except Body Thetans, was easily available to me as a non-OT Scientologist, and there was no way to avoid it.

    As soon as you start a Scientology course, you start looking things up in the Technical Dictionary. Even a casual glance reveals implant stations, the Fifth Invader Force with their “unthinkably horrible hands,” Helatrobus, Fac One, it’s all there. These ideas pervade Scientology from the earliest stages.

    IMO any Scientologist who says they have not heard of alien races and space opera in Scientology is lying for PR reasons. I totally trust Marc Headley, and I think there must be some misinterpretation of his words — there’s no way he could have not heard about space opera. Space Opera has its own definition in the Tech Dictionary! He must have meant Body Thetans and Xenu. It’s entirely possible to spend your life in SCN and never hear of these.

    • Tony Ortega

      This is what Marc told us for that story two years ago: “I was a staff member, and a Sea Org member, for most of my time. I did not have the time or money to do much Scientology auditing or training. Many other people were in the same situation — which is why it’s possible for a longtime member of Scientology to be clueless about the stuff with the aliens.”

      I think he did very little Scientology of any kind while he was in. For him, Scientology just meant work around the clock at Int Base, and not much to do with the works of L. Ron Hubbard.

      • That is very plausible as you did not discus this at all, especially not in production hours!
        Eta: also there are certain rules and policies about public areas, like reception. You do not speak about stuff like this.

      • Orglodyte

        Thanks Tony. I was public, and came in with a lot of interest in such stuff, and spent all my time training from the beginning.

  • Richard

    Today’s post is an important lesson in history.

    Now, let’s admit it. There was some guy called Charles Darwin who had his theory, and it was quite good, but he didn’t really tie up all the knots that Ron managed to do regarding the history of the species.

    I mean, when silly old Charles said “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change”, he really wasn’t considering the fourth and the fifth invader forces, was he? I mean, come on, what sort of a scientist was Mr. Darwin? How could he have written a book about the origin of the species without considering fundamental facts such as Mr. Xenu?

    And did Darwin, did he ever consder the importance of clams? No, of course he didn’t. He was more interested in the tortoises on the Galapagos than the influence of clams.

    And this is the real difference between these two scientists, Mr. Darwin and Mr. Hubbard.

    When Darwin wrote his books, they were based on loose observations, but when Hubbard wrote his books, they were based on solid, down to earth and proven facts.

    • Darwin was a quack too and under heavy influence by this other quack Herbert Spencer. Not everybody agree with his book! Long history.

      • iampissed

        ..

        • iampissed

          ..

        • sure np… use this ps. i don’t have any beers?

          • iampissed

            Beers,are kind of my last worry at the moment. Now if you had Jack that I could use.
            I’ll email you sometime today with my real e-mail.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Lol

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “And did Darwin, did he ever consder the importance of clams? No, of
      course he didn’t. He was more interested in the tortoises on the
      Galapagos than the importance of clams.”

      And finches, the guy was just absolutely nuts about finches! And all around him, there was this treasure trove of natural history to delve into! Well, I guess that’s just how it goes in science: sometimes it takes a real genius like Elron to come along and observe the obvious, thus putting science back on the track of truth that it had strayed from!

      • I was going to say finches, too. And worms. Darwin calculated the amount of soil turned over by worms every day, and concluded they were essential to life.

    • Sherbet

      Research, Richard! Research! It makes all the difference in the world between a genius and some slob named Darwin.

  • From Mike Rinder’s today, CCHR declares that their 21st Century Cures Act loss was a famous victory!

    IAS – The Gift That Keeps On Taking December 12, 2016, Mike Rinder, Something Can Be Done About It

    http://i0.wp.com/www.mikerindersblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screenshot-547.png

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Newiga

      Eugh… This ostrich head has been in the sand too long.

    • Sherbet

      So, John, if you’re that secure in your belief, why are you afraid to give Leah’s show a glance?

    • Harpoona Frittata

      JT has been trotting that one out since forever! It’s very logical if a) You really ARE the only person in the world that’s worth caring about b) everyone in the cult gets treated as celebs and whales do, and c) the abuses that have occurred were isolated, only happened to a few folks and were dealt with fairly and effectively. None of which happen to be true.

      JT’s head-in-the-sand position is becoming increasingly more untenable for him and other $cilons like him to maintain. Indeed, if the cult’s collapse continues on at this rate, then it’s going to be time to start playing “Who will be the last one out” very soon 😉

    • Travolta’s son died, possibly because ‘church’ doctrine deprived the lad of the medication he desperately needed. The CofS didn’t leave Travolta’s side afterwards – but not because they cared about him. They stuck around was to keep an eye on him because they were afraid he might see the truth, and turn against them.

      As it is, I don’t think he ever will, because it would be much too hard a thing to face up to, and if money does anything. it insulates you from unpleasant truths.

      It’s actually doubtful if he is saying those things himself, or has been drilled in what to say by his Scientology handlers.

      The man is just tragic, actually held in contempt by Miscavige after the “Battlefield Earth” debacle, but apparently totally oblivious to this.

  • Pezza

    I have seen “The Role of Earth” on some special lecture series or as a single via ebay. I am guessing if they included it in the GAT stuff its been heavily edited.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Hubbard’s theory of the Thetan as unearthly, unique to each $cientologist and separate from MEST
    is a narcissistic form of dualism with roots in a perversion of Gnostic ideas and and echoes of the Manichaeans.
    His Space Opera is poorly written, puerile dreck from a lazy third-rate mind.
    Hatred of earth, the body (even the term “meat-body” is awful) and nature are central to this insanity.
    Joseph Smith of the LDS had shades of the same dis-ease. With a more “Judeo-Christian” twist.
    It is tainted by Lafaillite’s superficial knowledge of Buddhism and steeped in the occult a la Blavatsky and Crowley.
    Descartes would have been proud of this mechanical reductionism.
    Skinner would have cheered him on for his disdain.
    Pavlov salivates.

    This world, this body, this life – all are precious, unique, astonishing even.
    Humility and a sense of awe and mystery are appropriate responses when
    faced with the glories of a vast starry sky or a new born or the power and
    majesty of a hurricane, an earthquake.
    Gratitude becomes us more than greed.
    Love and generosity, courage and curiosity, a desire to learn.
    Certainty shuts all these down.

    Hubbard instead disdains, wants to control and manipulate.
    His unceasing attempts to flee were the leitmotif of his ill-starred days.
    He fled studies, wives, responsibility, critics and the law.
    He was a man profoundly unhappy in his own skin.
    What meager happiness he had came from conning others and ripping them off.
    Scant solace for a thin veneer of superiority overlaying a roiling seething hot mess
    of self-hatred, anger, loathing and paranoia.

    Add the tortuous control mechanisms and the subtle and unsubtle induction techniques
    designed to enslave.
    Is it any wonder that great hurt and pain inevitably follow any who venture down
    Hubbard’s downward-sloping garden path?
    And it has led to innumerable cases of health problems neglected, undiagnosed
    and/or maltreated.
    As well as terminal arrogance.
    The destruction of families through the pernicious practice of disconnection, the human-rights
    abuses and the child abuse are all implicit in Hubbard’s teachings from the get go.

    To all you exes, I have to say how much I am in awe of the courage it took/takes to break the chains of bondage.
    And to Leah, for using your position and fame to force DM to word-clear blowback, kudos.
    You are a light and a force for good in the face of evil.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a7c939577758937ed12cddc0d546ae64c98ee7d8ea972ad52082bd0c091d55fe.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/80f99dc65b6171a565c6ae597bc040f33aee1ac09be7e61fbd32cf0f04d880bf.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/892883cfa1551d946072546dcc7e059530b4ec5326f63282802cca69dc4c3895.jpg

  • Nat-leficent

    Even when Tony writes it out clearly and concisely, it’s still boring and cuckoo.

    • Sherbet

      I was reminded of this lyric from “Man of La Mancha”: “I can hear the cuckoo singing In the cuckooberry tree…”

      Yup, Hubbard is the cuckoo, and he’s up there swingin’ on a branch, all right.

      • grundoon

        When he says that you’re a thetan, I suggest that you agree!

    • Jimmy3

      The Bunker is theta hatin today

      • Nat-leficent

        Be honest, how far did you get? I got to “bodies in pawn” and I LIKE sci-fi.

        • Kim O’Brien

          😉

        • Jimmy3

          Im not allowed to read above the Disqus line

  • The Sea Org motto is ‘WE COME BACK’. This really says it all. We and all my friends I’ve duped. What a guy….

  • “…and so forth” is so irritating.
    “…and so forth”= “yadda yadda”
    Can’t leave out the yadda yadda. That’s where everything happens.

    • Sherbet

      “and so forth” is code for lrh’s inner voice, “Oh, shoot, I ran out of ridiculous crap to say. Let me regroup…”

    • “I gotta tell you, I am loving this yada yada thing. I can gloss over my whole life story.”
      – George, in “The Yada Yada”
      #LRonic

      all good as long as he mentions the lobster bisque

      • How do you prepare lobster bisque?
        1. Get a lobster.
        2. Yadda yadda.
        3. Ta-da!

    • LongtimeLurker

      It’s so dismissive of the audience. And lazy. And a bit stupid.

      So just like Ron, really.

  • Vaquera
  • flyonthewall

    You know what really bugs me? Grimace. Wtf is he?? All the other McDonaldland characters make sense but not him. Is he an alien or what? Is that hard to make up a backstory for him?? He’s just a big purple idiot, makes no sense

    • Observer

      Lafayette has returned!!

      • Sherbet

        ^^^^

      • flyonthewall

        Grimace use to be a bad guy. He had 4 arms and would steal milkshakes and for no reason one day two of his arms disappeared and he was Ronald’s buddy. True story. What happened there?

        • Observer

          The two disappeared arms were composed purely of body thetans, which were finally shooed away. He also realized there’s no real value in milkshakes, so has been posing as Ronald’s friend so he can get close enough to pick his pockets.

          • Sherbet

            See? I knew there would be a simple explanation. Happy now, fly?

            • flyonthewall

              Am I ever! Obs should work on Madison Ave!

        • Princess Squishy

          I read Nat’s longer version of this before I read your shorter summary and your summary made me laugh so hard. You win some internetz for that belly laugh https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ebe068fea2acfa1fc708c97f96ccba6d884556c6d2830ca6142e65fe949e5e17.gif

    • Sherbet

      I’m glad somebody is looking at the big issues. Bravo, fly.

    • Nat-leficent

      Isn’t he a potato? Paging Emma D.

    • Jimmy3

      Grimace was a Chicken McNugget that fell behind the fry-o-later

      • flyonthewall

        Ok see that’s what I’m talking about. Why couldn’t McDonald’s just come out and say that? I think many people, including myself, would sleep easier knowing Grimace’s origin story

        • Nat-leficent

          McDonalds has a wiki!
          “Originally, Grimace was the “Evil Grimace”, with two pairs of arms with which to steal milkshakes. After that first campaign, the character was revised to be one of the “good guys”, and his number of arms was reduced by two. These commercials and merchandise generally portray him as a well-meaning simpleton, whose clumsy antics provide a comic foil to Ronald McDonald. The character was retained after the streamlining of the characters in the 1980s and was one of the few members to also be retained until the end of the McDonaldland commercials.

          Grimace was last seen at Dodger Stadium on July 18th, 2012 vs. the Philadephia Phillies, dancing to Ram Jam’s 1977 classic, Black Betty”

          http://mcdonalds.wikia.com/wiki/Grimace

          • flyonthewall

            Right but none of that explains w.t.f he is

          • Jimmy3

            Theyre always changing the origin stories. It took them a few years to realize that their pedophile-on-the-loose character wasnt helping them sell Kids Meals, so a name change an alternate MO, and bam, the Hamburglar was reborn.

            • Jimmy3

              Then they changed Kids Meals to Happy Meals because they were too sad.

            • flyonthewall

              I am going to petition Mayor McCheese to start an inquiry into Grimace. I just don’t trust that guy, his past is murky. There’s something there

            • Sherbet

              Ptommy Ptomaine wasn’t a McDonald’s advertising winner, either.

            • Observer

              He went on to find infamy as Tommy “REAL ANGRY!” Davis.

            • Mockingbird

              Rubble rubble

          • So let me get this straight – he provided a comic foil to a clown? Was Ronald not very funny, or what?

          • Lucille Austero

            Okay. I learned the most today from this post. ^^^^^
            Well done!

        • Sherbet

          I wouldn’t sleep easier knowing there are purple fuzzy life forms developing behind the Fry-O-Later.

          • flyonthewall

            Think of how the McDonald’s team members (they prefer to be called that) would feel. *shudder*

            • Sherbet

              “AARRGGGHH!!! It’s alive!!!!!!!”

              “No worries. Just slather it with Secret Sauce, and we’re good.”

          • grundoon

            ignorance is bliss

    • Nat-leficent
    • Rasha
      • flyonthewall

        I have all those toys, MIB. My retirement toys

        • jayla197145

          Fly, what does MIB stand for? Sorry…I probably should know this…

          • Frodis73

            All I think of is Men in Black…but I do not know if they did a series with Micky D’s when the movie came out or not.

            • jayla197145

              Oh! Thank you Frodis, maybe that’s it! I think there were some Men in Black toys at McDonalds. I need some kind of an internet acronym/abbreviation guide. I just found out a few days ago what TBH meant. I’m a really new new green newbie. Thank you again.:)

            • pluvo
            • jayla197145

              Aw thanks Pluvo!! “Ask and you shall receive” Nice! 🙂 🙂

            • Frodis73

              No worries. I have been online since the 90’s and still don’t know all of the acronyms…or just flat out forget them if I don’t use it much.

            • jayla197145

              Frodis, you are very patient, so can I ask you one more question that might be stupid? I’ve seen a lot of you guys post XD (it must be meant affectionately) and does it mean “a great big smile?”

            • Robert Eckert

              It’s a variant of 😀 or 😀 but in XD you are laughing/smiling so large that your eyes are squinting.

            • jayla197145

              Thank you Robert! 🙂 It does look like it means that. 🙂 🙂

          • flyonthewall

            Mint in Box, nerd collector speak 🙂

            • jayla197145

              Oh! Thank you Fly. That makes sense! My sons have some figures that are MIB (hope I’m using that term correctly) 😉 🙂

            • flyonthewall

              yep, perfect. What do they have, if you don’t mind me being nosy? I have a bunch of Hellboy figures in their boxes. Used to be really into Hellboy.

            • jayla197145

              You are not nosy at all, you can ask me anything. 🙂 Let’s see, they have these “Pop” Star Wars figures in their boxes, then a bunch of WWE wrestling figures…some in boxes but some are not (ones I’ve gotten at the Value Village are not). 🙂

            • flyonthewall

              Nice. Value Village and thrift stores in general are awesome. We have a GoodWill Outlet here where you sift through giant bins and buy junk by the pound!

            • jayla197145

              Oh I totally agree with you Fly! I love going in there and not knowing what I will find…or if I will find anything good and the anticipation of “oh I haven’t checked over there! Could there be something great over there?!!” Going to Value Village a lot might be the closest thing I have to a hobby actually… 🙂 🙂

            • flyonthewall

              thrifting is a legit hobby for real, my wife should know, she’s in deep

            • jayla197145

              She sounds like one smart lady Fly!! 🙂 🙂

    • Rasha

      …didn’t he originally have 4 or 6 arms?

  • WOG with Attitude

    We sci fi fans might be moderately amused by Hubbard’s crazy stories, that is, if he didn’t turn it into the gospel truth in the minds of his victims.

    I’m glad Tolkien didn’t turn middle earth lure into a real history! I know too many people who would believe it was all real!

    • Observer

      I just cringe at the stories. They may be imaginative, but I find them 1) stupid (talking “Magellanic Clouds” Hubs thought were actual clouds, like cumulus, anyone?), and 2) deadly dull.

      • Nat-leficent

        Yes, very creative but sooooooooooooooo effing dull.

      • When critics are pressed to come up with Hubbard’s best fiction, they typically choose one or more of his paranoid fantasies (like “Typewriter in the Sky”).

        I think that if you took his best stories (which weren’t that good) and discarded the rest you have to describe him as a fantasy writer, not SF at all.

        This is because he had the most superficial understanding of science, no ability to do research nor create anything other than cardboard cut-out characters, so ‘hard’ SF was just not his thing.

        The CofS promote him as an SF writer because that is one of the few genres he wrote for the pulps that not only survived, but went on to grow up and achieve real literary quality in the hands of the best authors.

        Aviation tales, Foreign Legion Stories and so many more of the genres and sub-genres that thrived in the days of the pulps, and that Hubbard wrote for, have since disappeared for all practical purposes.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Yes to all this^^^

      • WOG with Attitude

        I can’t get into them. I hate plot holes and lame writing.

        I do find “Battlefield Earth” to be one of the great unintended comedies of all time.

    • MarcabExpat

      That’s a neat observation. Did you know that Tolkien had a whole thought-out philosophy about maintaining separation between what he called the artist’s Primary world (their reality) and the Secondary or Sub-created world (their fiction)?

      He based his work partly on several external historical mythologies (Norse and Welsh cosmologies for example) and partly on his own Catholic religious beliefs But there was a story he wrote that he then withdrew from because he realized that one element of it broke a barrier in such a way that the Primary world was intruding on the Secondary one – that is, his Catholic theology and his Middle-earth theology found an intersection point. He found that unacceptable, even though he believed profoundly in the Catholic element involved. So he refrained from developing that particular strand of the mythos any further because he couldn’t stand the breach. He found it dishonest.

      So that’s what it looks like when a fiction writer actually has some ethical principles.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Observer

      Yeah, good luck with your caveats, Bub. When Miscavige hires a PI, it’s on his terms. And no 911 calls allowed.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Hilarious, especially when you realize that case types 3 and 4 are actually one and the same 😉

  • I gotta hand it to LRH, he had a great imagination. HIs cosmology tales make the Abrahamic religions look like “See Spot run.”

  • Nat-leficent
  • Great article Tony! Insightful, yet hilariously funny. Oh that Ron! Despite denying the existence of aliens Scientologists speak in hushed tones of everything Tony has written above as though it were absolute truth. I have witnessed this on many occasions. True.

  • Harpoona Frittata

    Elron was the absolute master of the long con. No one would sign up for this nonsense, let alone pay for it, if they were hit with these bizarre space opera Origin myths when they first came through the door. The long con requires that folks are very gradiently immersed in the woo until, before they know it, they’re up to neck in it and they’ve become one with the woo. From Kool-Aid sipper to Kool-Aid guzzler, and finally to Kool-Aid purveyor, the path is one long, elaborate and intricately designed system of progressive immersion into an alternative space opera cosmology that has absolutely no support for it and lots and lots of scientifically sound reasons not to believe it.

    $cn fronts itself off initially as a logical system of self-improvement that one need only believe if it is true for you, based on your own personal experience. Get a little farther in and you learn about the Auditor’s Code, which contains some very sensible and reasonable points about never evaluating for, or invalidating, the PC. Instead of telling folks what to think about the traumatic experiences that they recall, you just help them to access it and discharge the negative influence that it has had on their lives. One is never told “you have this engram, now go find it”. The lack of direct evaluation serves to reinforce the belief that you’re in control and acting in a fully self-determined manner.

    However, as you buy into the belief system more and more, based on the positive early experiences that you’ve experienced in auditing, the focus shifts in some very directly evaluative directions. Everyone is believed to have had these incredibly traumatic, very distant experiences that are at the core of each of our inability to realize our true natures as timeless, formless spiritual beings of immense power and understanding. By the time you reach Oaty 3 you’re now being very directly evaluated for and told exactly what has happened to you and what its effect has been, rather than you coming up with the material on your own and giving it whatever degree of significance that you like.

    And if you balk at swallowing this very improbable sci-fi tale, then it’s YOU that’s at fault, as a result of auditing errors, overts and withholds, SPs on your lines or what have you. More and more eval is coming your way if you don’t fully believe in this space opera nonsense as if it were the gospel. And if you make it through this Wall o’ Eval, then you’re headed for endless rounds of exorcising space alien spirits.

    So, it’s only when you can get folks to chump for the small cons and make the process gradual enough that they become amenable to chump for the big cons. It’s like the proverbial frog in the slowly heating sauce pan who never notices the very incremental rise in temperature until he’s cooked. $cn works in exactly the same way and although the auditing that you receive on the lower bridge can be effective because it adheres to the Auditor’s Code, the farther up the bridge you get, the more you get your case evaluated for you, making it a process of progressive other-determinism that ends up at a place that is the exact opposite of where it started,

    The evil genius of Elron is to have disguised that progression so well that you never catch on at any point along the way. It’s true that many folks jump ship along the way, but since $cn already has your money (and, btw, good luck to you on getting it back), it’s all good from the standpoint of the con’s success. All it needs is an endless supply of gullible folks to get on the bridge and never mind if they keep falling off (I prefer “pushed off” here). Of course, like any con, once the potential marks get wind of the scam then you have to roll it up and start a new one, which is where we finally are now with respect to $cn’s reputation as a fraudulent scam in the eyes of the masses. And it’s way past time time that we did with them what folks have always done with fraudulent schemes once they were exposed…run them out of town or put them in jail!

    • Kestrel

      Of course, by the time you get to the point where you balk, you already have a sunk cost of time, money, and commitment.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Yep, it’s a very evil variation on that old saying, “In for a penny, in for a pound,” which in $cn is more like, “In for a penny, in for all your assets and your credit line too.”

        These poor aging OaTy 8’s who’ve topped out on the bridge and are going to be dying off soon, but still haven’t realized any true suppa powerz or secured their Eternities, must be getting increasingly frantic.

        It would drive me nuts if I had the money to pay for those not-yet-released levels and had been a Good $cilon all this time by ponying up extra cash for all the cult’s real estate boom. I’d feel like I’d given all to my religion and absolutely deserved to advance to its highest levels before I died.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Have you seen what they’re doing to milk the last out of those poor elders?

          There was a flyer floating around offering some kind of OT IX and X “preparation courses” on board the Freewinds.

          Just shameless.

          • Harpoona Frittata

            No, I missed that one. Next it will be OaTy burials at sea for those that couldn’t make it till the release date. They’ll paint a few crows white, release them as doves, then reg the hell out of the surviving relatives. The cult Knows no shame!

    • FredEX2

      One of the best comments I’ve ever read. Thank you HF. Well said.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Thanks, I appreciate the kind words!

  • Kim O’Brien

    Thanks for a great article Tony ….and thank you for writing it . I thank you for being a journalist . As opposed to say …cutting and pasting someone else’s writing and calling it a post . THAT would be lame

    I appreciate your work ethic , your education , and all that knowingness 😉

    • What my Boss just said…

    • LongtimeLurker

      Come on…who would cut and paste someone else’s writing like that?

      You’d have to be some kind of ignorant schmuck with nothing to say and crippling ego problems.

  • Andrew Porter
    • itsIBBy

      thats a determined doggo. everytime i come check on him, he’s still digging

  • LongtimeLurker

    Heart, we will forget him,
    You and I, tonight!
    You must forget the warmth he gave,
    I will forget the light.
    When you have done pray tell me,
    Then I, my thoughts, will dim.
    Haste! ‘lest while you’re lagging
    I may remember him!

    The Bunker, did you heart it?

    (Top left of the comments column)

    • daisy

      lovely

      • LongtimeLurker

        It’s my new thing, heart click reminder with a different classic poem involving the human heart.

        …I need a hobby…

        • jayla197145

          LL, I enjoyed it too plus I had forgotten to click the heart and it reminded me. 🙂 🙂

          • LongtimeLurker

            The system works!

            Thanks for clicking. ; )

  • Jimmy3

    Thanks for a great article Tony ….and thank you for writing it . I thank you for being a journalist .

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Thank you for being Jimmy3.

      • Jimmy3

        Youre most welcome. Its just good ol fashioned work ethic

    • Observer

      Thank you for being a plagiarist. Wait, what?

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    The Implanting Stations on Mars and Venus are very real, and, they are run by Psychs. The Psychs are a race of hostile aliens. So yes, there are aliens in Scientology but we call them Psychs because that accurately describes them much better. The Psychs are not little green men in spaceships. They are evil discarnate thetan implanter shapeshifters who can take any shape needed to implant and control homo saps.

    In Scientology we call aliens “Psychs” and so the misunderstood is easy to clarify. If you wish to communicate to a Scientologist, you just ask if the Psychs go all the way back on the wholetrack and they will say yes. We in RTC hope this clears up any confusenessesses here at the Bunker.

    Here is an example of an R6 implant:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba93df262dbf1eac2f1f25aa554384f6f6de5f79588008de13838cf6966af514.jpg

    • I have seen that.. That Borg was broken back then!

      • Kim O’Brien

        i read that as ” bong ” …more than once

    • grundoon

      Well now it all makes sense.

  • itsIBBy

    I have Bowie’s “Starman” in my head after hanging out on this story all day

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    I really appreciate how Tony makes it soooo clearly obvious how totally bat-shit crazy Hubbard was.

  • Observer

    This is way OT (though I suppose I could pitch it as an artistic rendition of BTs or engrams or something), but I really love it and figured some of you weirdos would too.

    http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2016/11/glitched-sculptures-by-yoshitoshi-kanemaki/

    • daisy

      Weird for sure, but interesting.

    • Frodis73

      Amazing that those are done in wood.
      I also followed links of people using matchsticks…cool site.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Holy wow.

  • Jeb Burton

    Yet some still say that the tech is still helpful. They reject Scientology but say they use the tech. You’re fucking insane.

    • Jimmy3

      What you say is true. And the only known way to combat this problem is to create bunker threads where we can insult these people every day.

      • flyonthewall

        we should insult everyone equally, focusing on just one group is discriminatory

        • Nat-leficent

          Yeah, we keep excluding the beautiful and smart XD

          • flyonthewall

            that’s not true, I get insulted plenty

            • Nat-leficent

              XD

        • Jeb Burton

          Are you saying I am like the preacher who was in the mall yelling at the kids that Santa was fake, just a fat guy dressed up, and you need to know that Christmas was Jesus’s birthday and your parents are lying to you? Really happened. Maybe I am. LRH was lying to you.

          • Nat-leficent

            I like to stop and talk to yelling preachers. Mostly just to make the yelling stop for a minute.
            ETA: I am conversion-proof though and they tire of me quickly. I’m so unshamable and unrepentant XD

            • Jeb Burton

              Me too. When I was at the pride parade in St. Pete, we had one. Very interesting and full of hate.

            • Nat-leficent

              They often come to college campuses and yell at the students the first day of classes. I make it a point to ask them why they are so angry.

            • Frodis73

              That just brought back some memories for me. I was with the LGBT group giving out condoms one day when our screaming preacher showed up. Of course we all “turned it up to 11” to chase him off. It worked. Good times at ksu.

          • flyonthewall

            So you’re saying you’re like an obnoxious crazy street preacher and that’s a good thing? o.O Sure you don’t want to rethink that?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7pPqQGro2s

            • Nat-leficent

              What a fantastic lunatic XD

            • flyonthewall

              he’s lucky TedtheAthiest wasn’t there. He would of given him what for

            • Jeb Burton

              In his world, he is telling it like it is. Glad I’m not his kid. But when you learn Santa is a lie, its when you lose your innocence.

            • Nat-leficent

              You ever believed that story in the first place?

            • Jeb Burton

              Oh yeah. I was all in.

            • Nat-leficent

              Ouch. I’m sorry. I never believed my parents would let a white guy give us charity XD

            • flyonthewall

              Speak for yourself. I lost my innocence in a whorehouse at 13yrs old. I was hoping it’d turn up in the lost and found box but no such luck 🙁

            • Jeb Burton

              Much better story than mine.

            • chukicita

              I thought it was when you got to grow up enough to pass on the magic and joy to others, particularly the young. When you stop taking and start giving.

            • Sherbet

              Yes, that’s exactly it, chucki.

            • Nat-leficent

              Love the Dads coming to the rescue!

            • Sherbet

              When our son was little, I toyed with eliminating the Santa thing, but why set my kid apart from everyone else? It’s a childhood tradition. Instead, we emphasized the magical part, not the gimme part, and it was fun while it lasted. However, this preacher is a real d-bag. It’s not his place to tell parents how to raise their kids or impose his prejudices on strangers at the mall. I think even Jesus would smack Preacher Killjoy on his head and tell him to shut up and mind his own business.

              This is precisely one of the problems with scientologists: They are compelled to save the world by insinuating their own beliefs into other people’s lives. They feel justified in doing so whether those other people want to be saved or not. Shaddup, already.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Screw you.

          • flyonthewall

            that’s what I like to hear, you fucking bastard

      • Jeb Burton

        These people need to wake up. Keep coddling them. That will help.

        • itsIBBy

          Compassion =/= coddling.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Right?

    • Kim O’Brien

      um ..i am a cast iron bitch ..and even I SAID IT NICER DOWN THREAD

      start picking up what people are putting down for crying out loud …you will lose the audience

  • daisy

    I have tried off and on today, as well as other days , I simply cannot listen to this man. He is boring and nuts . What a combination. I feel the same way about D M

    • LongtimeLurker

      Boring and nuts, but sexxxyyyyy

      • daisy

        Oh yes , who doesn*t find rotting teethe and meglomania attractive.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    If LRH was so smart that he made this fantastic discovery, then why wasn’t he smart enough to pronounce “GALAXY” correctly? That should have been a tip off right there! SMH

  • Jimmy3

    Just saw a local wanted person notice for a woman with a fresh warrant for failing to appear in court. The only alleged crime mentioned: Resisting arrest.

    Listen, law enforcement…. She’s just not that into you. Leave her alone already.

  • Vaquera

    Scientology UK is having a snark-ish twitter storm. Started 16 minutes ago. f5
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f8e64fd7a1158ce850216b44b656313d12a91e7436a811ac34fa78d8350553df.jpg

    • Observer

      Did they get hacked?

      • Vaquera

        Doesn’t look like it.

        • Observer

          I hope they’re not having some kind of breakdown

          • Nat-leficent

            Does look like it XD

          • Vaquera

            Let’s hope not, otherwise they’d be required to deny themselves the help of a mental health professional.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Then sec check themselves for having the breakdown in the first place.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Possibly, but the guy who runs it is like 12.

        (he’s not, but he seriously looks it)

    • Trying to get stats up, I’m sure. Someone out there has to have a “number of tweets” stat.

  • EmmaDaoust

    Pigs in Space! Wherein the intrepid space pigsplorers discover where thetans come from.
    https://youtu.be/EmI77ZBeJrQ

    ETA: Contains the worst case of subtitles I’ve ever seen.

    • Nat-leficent

      EMMA! What is Grimace? Fly wants to know.

      • EmmaDaoust

        You got me. Here’s Wikipedia: Grimace (also Grymace or Grimache) was a French composer active in the mid-to-late 14th century. Grimace was active in the period of music history known as the ars nova and was probably a contemporary of Guillaume de Machaut, since his compositions lack the complicated rhythms of the Ars subtilior (Günther 2007). Grimace’s birth and death dates are not known; little is known about him outside of attributions in medieval music manuscripts.

        • Nat-leficent

          Thank you.

          • EmmaDaoust

            Of course could also be a McDonald’s promo character

            https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JZ5frqwmkOw/maxresdefault.jpg

            • Nat-leficent

              That’s what he was asking about. I thought you might know because of your avatar 🙂

            • EmmaDaoust

              The avi is actually a Barbabapa character called Barbabright
              http://www.barbapapa.com
              “Barbabright is a great scientist.
              Neither chemistry, astrophysics or genetics are a secret for him.
              Disturbing potions, wacky machines…these amazing inventions are sometimes useful but they often cause catastrophes!”

            • Nat-leficent

              Cool!

            • EmmaDaoust

              Yes, he’s, uh, like LRH that way.

    • stanrogers

      Hey, some of those words were in the sketch!

      • EmmaDaoust

        LOL!

  • Observer

    I was looking for Lafayette’s description of the Marcabs, and stumbled on this. Secure tinfoil hats before clicking.

    http://shaphan.typepad.com/blog/2005/01/l_ron_hubbards_.html

    So I decided to cast L Ron Hubbard’s birthchart, as one does. Actually, I doubt it’s been done too often before, for I can’t find any mention of it on the web…

    Guess which star is conjunct LRH’s natal Sun? Yup, his Sun is 0°36′ from Markab. Thus my suspicion – that Hubbard knew he was literally a Markabian before he revealed to his followers the existence of Marcab and the evil Marcabian Confederacy.

    • Jimmy3

      Dammit. My guess was Kuba Ka.

    • chukicita

      Literally.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      That explains everything! Perhaps if he had only gotten a reading earlier, so many BT lives could have been saved 😉

  • Jeb Burton

    Just to let you know Tony, Bubba the love sponge was fired from his station in Tampa Bay radio today. I enjoyed your appearance on his show, even if he made all his interviews about him. RIP Bubba.

    • jayla197145

      Jeb do you know why he was fired? I’m just nosy….

      • Jeb Burton

        His contract was up and they didn’t want to renew it. Also he is being sued by the Neilson Rating group. He was found to be paying panelists to hook up their rating devices to oscillating fans to make it look like they were only listening to him. He allegedly paid for the fans out of his not for profit foundation. And of course he was the person who recorded Hulk Hogan banging his wife. That was the Gawker lawsuit.The guy is real piece of work.

        • Qbird

          um, i think the Hulk was bangin’ his friend’s wife. If i recall..

          • Yes, and that friend was Bubba the love sponge.

            • Kim O’Brien

              there is nothing good in any of your sentences . i want to scrub my brain LOL

            • Don’t hate on my sentences. LOL

            • Jeb Burton

              Tony was on his show. Hmmmm.

            • Lots of people were on his show.

          • Jeb Burton

            Yeah. It was Bubba’s wife. Rumors have it there is more to come Tony Stewart, NASCAR driver, Deion Sanders, Warren Sapp, all good friends of Bubba. He was into being a cuckold.

            • Qbird

              he likes to watch. uh-huh

        • jayla197145

          WHAT?!?! Thank you…wow…that was even a much juicier story than I was expecting. Thanks again for answering. 🙂

          • chukicita

            Not really. The station changed its format, and Bubba didn’t fit. It happens all the time. It is playing Christmas music til the new year then it will start its new format. He is still a piece of work, but whatever juice you can squeeze out of his story, I wouldn’t drink.

            • Jeb Burton

              Is anything I said not true? Are you bubba army?

            • chukicita

              Hardly. But those were not the reasons he will not be on that station anymore.

            • Jeb Burton

              Google Bubba vs Neilson. Also Gawker vs Hogan. Its all true. It is defiantly one of the reasons he was fired, that and low ratings and revenue. You can drink all of that.

            • chukicita

              Dude. No one is saying those things are not true. But none of them had anything to do with the station changing its format. Bubba has other markets, whatever. It’s not like this is gonna kill him. He makes his living being controversial. Ain’t no one got time for that.

              You know, there are decaf brands that taste just as good.

            • Jeb Burton

              85% of his revenue came from the Tampa affiliate. His other stations he was giving away for advertising revenue. This is gonna kill him.Tampa paid him millions, the other affiliates pay him thousands. And decaf sucks. It’s like non alcoholic beer.

            • chukicita

              No one in radio expects job continuity, especially these days.

            • Jeb Burton

              Agreed. But this guys sleaziness is one in a million.

  • Jeffrey Augustine cut his hair off and shaved, you guys. No joke.
    I don’t even know what’s going on anymore. It must be the Aliens.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Nice hat!

      • Thanks! Nat made it for me with her own hands.

        • Nat-leficent

          Yes. Click. Click. Click XD

    • Nat-leficent

      Now this is news!

    • Liberated

      Maybe SMERSH is after him and he has to change his identity.

      • That and Leah.

      • OOkpik

        If he weren’t attached I might be after him too.
        Karen saved his happy ass.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Next thing you know, Texas will be wearing Birkenstocks,
      Kim will be a Republican and Trump will tell the truth,
      SO will be well fed and well paid and the sun will rise in the West.

      • Vaquera
        • Nat-leficent

          Ew.
          XD

          • Vaquera

            I’ll bet they’re comfy as all get out.

            • Qbird

              Uggs are wicked comfy, Vaq – ya don’t even need socks. (real sheep’s wool)
              slip on / slip off.
              cozy

            • Kim O’Brien
            • Qbird

              They look heavy, Kim. Check out ‘Bogs’ — 100% waterproof, lightweight.

            • Vaquera

              Everyone up here wears Bogs.

            • Qbird

              My first pair worked great, but did not last that long.
              I wear them everyday, damn near, year-round. The rubber cracked near one of my big toes… then they were NOT waterproof. bummer.

            • Kim O’Brien

              not heavy at all ….Bogs are great ..but there is something about the rubber on the shoes and how is fits/slips into the snow shoe . Great boots though

            • Qbird

              yep. gotcha fine there.

            • Vaquera

              Then I’d have to buy snowshoes. It’s a slippery slope. Though they’re half the price of the birkenstocks, so mebbe. 🙂

            • Qbird

              short boot. Kim, does snow go down inside those?
              i guess the snowshoes keep you up above the deep snow.

            • Kim O’Brien

              nope …you put on things called gaiters . keeps the snow out …especially if you are breaking trail .

            • iampissed

              Nice

            • chukicita
            • Qbird

              omg! now that’s pretty!

            • chukicita

              Lined with sheepskin.

            • Qbird

              that’s the best!

            • chukicita

              Native made. On etsy and FB. Rez Hoofs.

            • Qbird

              You ever hear of Steger Muklucks, Chuckicita?
              Will Steger’s wife makes them out of MN.
              Very warm, very lightweight, felt wool insole, moccasin design.
              My only issue, they’ve no solid sole.

            • chukicita

              They are beautiful, Steiger Mukluks. They are also about twice as much as RezHoofs!

            • Qbird

              aye. but if you go to the store in the fall, they sell many display boots for 1/2 price.

            • Nat-leficent

              These are cute.

            • I have a Pendleton blanket with that pattern. One of my favorites.

            • thetastic

              I’m getting one for Christmas and can’t wait!

          • Qbird

            stupid buckles. no good for nuthin’

        • EmmaDaoust

          Gott im Himmel

        • iampissed

          I’ve got a pair of custom bald mountain footwear.
          Very comfy, only comes out for special occasions.
          If I were home I’d take a pic when I get back I’ll show you.

          • I loved my old Bald Mountain boots. They were really hard to get on and off, but so comfortable and they lasted for decades!

      • Kim O’Brien

        i heard that 😉

    • Pix or it didn’t happen.

      • Observer

        And that’s why you need Facebook. Seriously, I didn’t even recognize him.

        • Nat-leficent

          *heading over to look*

            • Qbird

              no!

            • Nat-leficent

              Nooooooooooooooo!

            • Qbird

              okay. we’re gonna have to get use to this.
              AND, hair… is a renewable resource.

            • Nat-leficent

              Breathe. It grows back.

            • Observer

              I don’t like posting people’s pics of themselves without permission

            • Yeah, I can see that in certain circumstances.

            • OOkpik

              Cute.

            • Yeah, he looks good.
              Change is good.

            • Kim O’Brien

              the suit is freaking me out ….but i like his open face

            • Jimmy3

              RIP Suppressive David Crosby Augustine
              https://youtu.be/JMbuJXQCIvo

            • Kim O’Brien

              i just peed a little

            • Sherbet

              David Crosby doesn’t even look like David Crosby anymore.

            • iampissed

              Non of us do.

            • Kestrel

              I stopped looking like David Crosby in the 80s.

            • Sherbet

              I may end up looking like him, since elderly Italian ladies like myself wind up with mustaches.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Who the hell is that?

            • Qbird

              ah-ha, LL ~ catch up!

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, come on, that’s some whole other guy. Like a neighbor or something.

            • Sherbet

              Don’t worry; J. Swift and OT8isGr888888t haven’t shaved. They still look the same.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Whew.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              I would not have recognized him unless someone told me it was Jeffrey. On a related note, my brother has not shaved his beard in over 30 years, so I’m not sure I’d recognize him just by a pic either if he decided to shave.

            • chukicita

              He looks downright respectable.

            • Sherbet

              Job interview!

            • MarcabExpat

              WUT IS THAT REALLY HIM?

    • Vaquera

      Love that Leah is the one who suggested it.

      • Rasha

        OMX Tell Leah he needs a spiky Mohawk.

        • iampissed

          Every Girl Crazy about a Sharp Dressed Man.

      • LongtimeLurker

        She has so many more super powers now than when she was in Scientology.

    • iampissed

      Lookin good

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Written and Drawn by Carl Barks who was remembering past lives as a duck astronaut. Created about the same time Hubbard created Scientology. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f57fda2785c16370d5c2151c05253dc2555d6c2fd3a968ac9c3e57d17bde442d.jpg

  • Qbird

    I have an off topic question for the bunker. Have any of you heard about [or have experienced]
    sleep paralysis?

    • LongtimeLurker

      .

      .
      .
      .
      ……. ..

      • Qbird

        i don’t understand. but that’s ok. I myself have never experienced this, but a kid i work with has (does) and I had never heard of such a thing. Been down a rabbit hole regards it.

        • Sherbet

          I’ve heard of it, and I think one of the younger Jenner model/celebs says she has it.

          • Qbird

            It is trumatic, Sherbet. This kid’s talking about it to help himself deal with it. It has plagued him his whole life, since he was an itty-bitty. It’s truly scary. messes with him.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Sorry, I just woke up and was still semi-paralysed.

          That’s not true. I was just trying for a lame joke about it.

          I’ve wasted your time.

          I’ve let myself down, and my team down.

          • Qbird

            no, you have not LL. Good morning to ya!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thx. ; ) Morning back!

          • OOkpik

            Post a wombat pix. We’ll forgive you. 🙂

          • Rasha

            You tried. That’s important.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks mom.

            • Rasha

              So proud of you. Get your lunch ready for tomorrow.

          • dungeon master

            I often make jokes at unappropriate moments to try and lighten the atmosphere.. If it falls flat, take a page from the book of Jeffrey Ross and say ‘Too soon? Not funny?’

            • LongtimeLurker

              I didn’t really bother thinking about the actual condition, I just focused on the word paralysis.

              It’s on me.

            • dungeon master

              Aww! Treat yourself kindly LL. Life’s too short for so many regrets! We all wish we could give him the magic bullet that causes his condition to change.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          For me it was like a lucid dream where I could not move. It felt like being stuck in quicksand. If found that making a consious effort to move was difficult and eventually woke me up. Only happened to me a handfull of times.

          • Qbird

            thank goodness.

          • MarcabExpat

            This is a good description, that’s what it was like for me too. I associated it with several recurring nightmares — in fact occasionally I wonder if it was a nightmare. I could hear my mom cooking and talking though. I dunno, I was afraid to tell an adult about it so I never did learn anything about what causes it or what to do.

            • Qbird

              many who suffer from this do not speak on it.

            • MarcabExpat

              That is weird. I wonder why. I remember thinking it would be terrible if I spoke it aloud.

    • Jimmy3

      Yes. And I suppose I should clarify that I’m not joking. It has happened to me 4 times, and the first time was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life.

      • Qbird

        i have to say that is consistant with this kid’s experience. It is not just a nightmare. There is more to it. It has occured thru the ages & in all cultures.

        • Observer

          He has my sincere sympathy

          • Qbird

            no shit, Obs… man-o-man, I never heard tell…
            and look at how many have experienced this.
            blows my mind.
            What the hell is going on in the mind that this happens?!
            i wanna know.

      • Kestrel

        It’s never happened to me and it sounds frightening. How long does it last?

        • Jimmy3

          In real time, it was probably only a few – five minutes the first time. But youre coming out of REM nightmare sleep and it feels like purgatory. I had no real grasp of time and i didnt go back to sleep until the next day

          Id explain this more but im on my phone atm and tying is a hassle

          • Kestrel

            Five minutes sounds like forever.

            • Qbird

              mind awake, but body cannot move — yeah, not good.

        • Observer

          It seemed like forever to me. I could open my eyes but not move anything else–it felt like I was buried in sand. And I was seeing things I knew weren’t really there, but I kept getting more and more terrified. My heart felt like it was going to pop out of my chest. Then something sort of went snap and I was out of it and awake.

          I was 16, and I’ve never been that terrified (scared doesn’t begin to cover it) before or since.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Yes – I have experienced it.

    • Kim O’Brien

      yes

    • Observer

      Once, and it was terrifying. Ive had one real nightmare in my life, and that wasn’t it. It was far worse.

      • I’ve been having weird work dreams, where I’m in the middle of graphics projects and they’re very complicated, even multi-dimensional (makes sense in the dream) but I have no idea what I’m supposed to do to finish them. Not unpleasant, but somewhat disquieting. I’m actually relieved to wake up and deal with real problems.

        • dungeon master

          Sometimes I figure out how to attack a problem while I’m sleeping.. It’s very cool when the creative and practical sides come together and get something done while I’m resting.

    • Rasha

      No, although Rasha has always been fascinated about that moment between sleep and wakefulness. About the mechanism that determines and shuts off some functions while enabling others. That “between state” is really curious. I try to get there to have a look around, but no luck so far.

      • flyonthewall

        try LSD or shrooms, is very similar

        • Rasha

          I’m guessing that doesn’t include breaded, seasoned and deep fried buttons. I would try shiitake, but I keep giggling when I mispronounce the name.

          • iampissed

            Stuffed with crab and cheese.

            • Rasha

              *swoon*

      • Rasha

        ETA: Heard of, yes, experienced, no. I’ve experienced times just before sleep, totally relaxed, and could hear/create audible voices in my head. Unfortunately, that would bring me just back into wakefulness, to try again. It’s a replay function, part of that autonomous control center, but it’s very interesting to get a peek behind the curtain… Consciousness is cool.

        • Qbird

          I’ve had a few experiences of that inbetween, coming into full consciousness… lucid dreams. But not scary… this paralysis is a whole nuther animal.

          • Rasha

            I’m so sure it must be. Again, it seems to me it’s that moment when the brain is throwing the switches, disabling physical mechanisms so that the mental processes can work without causing harm. There seems to be a moment when one mis-timed switch thrown can be unpredictable. Even after a reboot, you still have to account for the results of the misconfiguration.

            The price we pay for being conscious and self-aware….

            • I mentioned upthread about experiences when I was a child of about seven or eight, that I would wake up and the room seemed tiny, like a little box right in front of my face. I felt huge and tiny at the same time. It really freaked me out for a few months. It was similar to sleep paralysis wherein my visual cortex was in a dreaming and waking mode at the same time, but I was able to move. It eventually went away. Then years later, when I was into a lot of new agey stuff, I decided that it was an out of body experience and tried to reproduce it in vain. Now, I’m more fascinated by the real explanation of how my brain was slightly out of sync. A friend who’s a neurologist tells me that the growing brain is especially susceptible to such phenomenon.

          • Rasha

            (I did fly by choice once in a dream…. I really miss that night…) The thing that caused me to realize that I was in a dream (and could do whatever I wanted) was the appearance of my sister, who passed away some years ago. Her appearance has become the trigger to let me know it’s a dream.

            • Qbird

              i have too, Rasha.

          • Kim O’Brien

            my mom used to tell me that i already won the fight ..so when i woke up and could not move ..it was just my brain with a a delayed victory . Like when Ali used to pause after a really really good hit to an opponent . it worked . made me feel a ton better .

      • Observer

        You’ll know if you do. There’s no mistaking it.

    • documentary on Netflix, trailer here:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoPsjWqvwT4

      • Qbird

        TY – yes, have seen. Or rather, I listened to the doc… I prefer not to ‘see’ the images presented.
        I have a hard time with ‘horror’.

        • MarcabExpat

          Ditto, I’m going to be giving this one a miss, thankyouverymuch.

          • Qbird

            this is true horror, not movie-fake horror. I can’t take either.
            or rather, I choose not to subject myself to it… if at all possible.

            • MarcabExpat

              Yup. It’s fine entertainment for those who know nothing of it in real life.

    • Robert Eckert

      Just about every morning when I wake up I can’t remember what it is I have to do to make my body move. If I can get a finger or toe to wiggle then the rest of the body unlocks.

      • Kestrel

        Yikes!

      • Qbird

        The kid does the very same thing, Robert. He focuses. Sometimes it works, sometimes not & he just has to tough it out.
        He also ‘talks to the creature’ — he accepts the thing’s presence. It takes courage for him to do this. He tells it, like a mantra, i am not afraid of you, you just be there & when i do finally wake up, you will be no more.

        • Sherbet

          Sending big hugs to the Bunker sufferers and especially to this young boy you’re working with, Qbird. With help, perhaps he won’t be carrying the terror into adulthood.

          • Qbird

            He’s 24 Sherb. He copes.

            • Sherbet

              Oh! I imagined younger. Still, sounds like he’s on the right track.

            • Qbird

              He is, I believe. He’s a good kid; a nice young man. pretty happy, mostly. calm.
              He talks about it with anyone who’s curious about it bc that helps him stay calm about it. Many have said he’s ‘crazy’ or ‘disturbed’ or ‘mentally unsound’ — but, he just tells it like it is for him.

              Also, there is more info out about it now (the internet). that has helped too.

            • TheMirrorThetan

              I have found that if I scream for the thing to go away and get out of here it helps.
              Or I imagine myself poking it in the eye, and it disappears, and I can move again.

            • Qbird

              wow.

            • Observer

              It has nothing to do with mental health.

            • Qbird

              aye.

            • Observer

              Those people are idiots.

            • Qbird

              aye, again. It has been a remarkable thing that this kid talks to me about it.
              Until he did, I knew nothing.

            • flyonthewall

              talking to imaginary demons doesn’t sound healthy to me

            • Qbird

              no it does not, fly. But what can he do about this? He has spoken to doctors, medical & psychological. He keeps track of what he eats, drinks, does (stress related).
              It just fucking happens to ppl. An affliction to be sure.

            • flyonthewall

              yeah that’s messed up, I feel for him. Does he actually believe that there is a “Thing” and it hears him etc? The docs are ok with this and encourages it?

            • Qbird

              No, they are not okay with it — they also have no solution for him either.
              Each person has to figure out how to deal with it.

              What are ya gonna do, NOT SLEEP?

              eta: it is a really weird phenomenon. It happens.

            • flyonthewall

              so it helps him focus his mental energy, like a coping mechanism? He doesn’t believe there is a literal Thing?

            • Qbird

              the little fucker talks to him, fly… wtf… it scares the shit out of him. He can’t breathe, he can’t talk… he can’t move.
              He has come to learn that it is not real, only a dream (nightmare)… as a child, it was very real.

              Have you ever had an extremely lucid dream? Did it seem real?

            • flyonthewall

              ok I’m just asking so I understand the situation cuz idk if we’re talking metaphorical or literal or what so I have to ask to find out. As long as he knows it’s not real and this talking to it is a tool then I get it.

              Sure, I was trapped in a dream once and couldn’t wake up out of it even though I knew I was dreaming. I had to force myself to go to sleep in the dream to wake up in real life.

            • Qbird

              i guess for him, it’s literal. It is very bizarre. I watched a doc in utube about a man who traveled the world talking to all different peoples about this very thing — indigenous & so called modern societies. in one village, several folks suffered the paralysis at the same time for weeks & their solution was to kill a particular man in the village… holy fuck!

            • Robert Eckert

              When you are in the grip of a visionary experience, it is impossible not to perceive it as reality. If you can make the vision change, then you can start to perceive that it is actually a projection of your own mind, and escape the grip.

            • flyonthewall

              I get it, that makes sense

            • dungeon master

              I dream a lot. In some dreams there was a hiding place that my mother had shown me in an old abandoned house. As far as I know this never happened IRL. Some dreams I was trying to protect my younger sibs. I saved my brother Dave by swimming out to a dive platform on a lake when Frankenstein’s monster was chasing us. I bet you didn’t know he couldn’t swim! One time I had a dream about a guy climbing a power pole with his bicycle strapped to his back and ‘escaping’ by riding it over the power lines. It would be great if the young man could come up with his own dream form of kryptonite that caused the monster to deflate..

            • Qbird

              there are some who say this is where the alien abduction stories come from – how ya like them apples?
              Are we back on topic? oh ha!! XD

            • Robert Eckert

              Yes. In medieval times it would be a witch or a demon, but we are too modern to believe in such things, so nowadays they are space creatures.

            • Observer

              No, the feeling of a malevolent presence is very common with this.

            • flyonthewall

              Really? Ok, sounds like I need to read up on this. Thnx

            • Qbird

              That’s what I did. Mind blown. And, it is a lot more common than I could imagine.

            • Observer

              It’s a form of self-reassurance. He knows there’s nothing really there.

            • flyonthewall

              oh ok then, well that’s different

            • dungeon master

              I used to regularly dream myself into scary movies or books. I spent one night trying to save my unborn child from the Children of the Corn. In one book, there was this evil 14th century abbess who would kill people in perverse ways, and I told her ‘you’re just a dream. you’re a piece of fiction.’ And she told me that when we read that stuff, we make it real. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I did not read scary books or watch scary movies for many years after that!

        • Robert Eckert

          I don’t usually have the Thing with me when I’m paralyzed. It’s just that I can’t move. Of course it’s much worse when the Thing is there: in my case the trick to make the Thing go away is to turn his head blue, don’t ask me why.

          • Qbird

            Ooo – I shall pass on this idea.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Yes. Many times. And it is fucking terrifying, when you wake up from a horrific nightmare and you can’t move or speak.
      All you can do is scream in your head until you snap out of it.

    • MarcabExpat

      I did as a pre-teen. Grew out of it. Don’t know how common that is.

      • Qbird

        idk either, but I’m grateful it is so for you.

        • MarcabExpat

          I’m sorry it’s not so for him. Has he consulted anybody about it?

          • Qbird

            yes. several professionals.

    • As a kid I had a few really terryfing nightmares, that I had a hard time to wake up from.
      They were really bizzare and out of context for a 6 years old boy born in 70’s in Soviet Russia.
      One of them resulted in me sort of waking up in the middle of the night and informing my parents that I am dead. There is more. It was some heavy odd shit, but who knows.

      • Qbird

        I have had very few nightmares in my whole life, Dodo.
        I definately dreamed more while out at sea. Something about the motion of the ocean.
        Nowadays, I do not usually remember any of my dreams, good or bad,
        but my favorite are of flying.
        I have flown away from scariness — in my dreams.

        • Flying, yes, very cool! Glad you flew away! I sort of trained myself while dreaming to fly when I was falling off the cliff, right before I hit the ground and later flying just for fun. It was amazing and very empowering, every time. I kind of missed flying in my dreams.

          There was also Nazi invasion nightmare that I successfully woke up from. But that was probably influenced by some black and white TV we were watching at the time. The cool thing I remember deciding in my dream that Nazis can’t do anything to me. At that moment, while still asleep and after waking up and obviously to this day, I became aware that I am capable to control my bad dreams. I haven’t had much since then, other then rejoining scientology haha, but still at some extent of control.

          There was also a really weird dream with the bold old monk looking dude in black robes sort of controlling me by an energy beam, that felt like paralysis in every way. But may be it was just a fever dream. I really don’t know. Hope it helps and sorry if it’s too much information.

          • Qbird

            bless your heart, bless your mind 🙂

            HOLD ON! where’s that song?!

            here it is: https://youtu.be/MPrza6iiCWU

          • MarcabExpat

            Did you ever have post-cult-fleeing nightmares, whether explicitly about the cult, or symbolic but you knew what it was about? I had those for about 10 years and I hated it so much. I would have rather had random nightmares that didn’t mean anything.

            • Oh yeah. Hugs.

            • MarcabExpat

              Right back atcha.

            • Sometimes i wake up in a Low Condition he he! and then after a while i get it 🙂

            • MarcabExpat

              Took me a minute 🙂

      • MarcabExpat

        I used to dream I died all the time, Dodo. I can’t explain why that happens. Anyway I can tell you it’s not true that if you dream of falling and don’t wake up before you hit the ground you’ll die.

        • Observer

          I once dreamed that my dad and I were in a car accident and died because the ambulance guy was goofing around, so we haunted his ambulance.

          • MarcabExpat

            wow. That’s pretty elaborate. I used to just dream of falling and then hit the ground and lie there for a while (in the dream). No point to it, I don’t know why that kept happening.

            The worst I ever had was that a team of malevolent ghosts were tickling me, and I couldn’t stop it because they could put their hands right through me and tickle my insides, and I couldn’t swat them away with my human hands. Was very glad that one only came around a few times.

            On a lighter note, I once watched an evening of TV with my mom, went to bed and dreamed the entire episode of Welcome Back Kotter that I had just seen, complete with intro, commercials and rolling end credits. At the end of “the show” I woke up just long enough to say clearly to myself, “well, that was dumb.” Can’t believe I remember that.

            • iampissed

              Don’t let the marketing teams know that, they will only charge more for the reruns.

            • MarcabExpat

              Hey, they shoulda paid me to watch their stupid commercials all over again.

            • That reminds me of a clown tickling me in one of very early nightmares. Fucking clowns.

            • MarcabExpat

              My sympathies, but I just have to mention: I love that instead of “fucking nightmares,” you said “fucking clowns.”

            • Robert Eckert

              When I fly in dreams I get worried whether I can get enough altitude to get over the next building, and then if I get too high I start to forget how to fly and lose altitude rapidly.

            • MarcabExpat

              It’s funny how different it is for different people. For me, flying dreams were always about being free and totally in control of myself. I didn’t have to do anything to fly, I just soared, like a bird coasting on spread wings. It was on the ground that things were scary.

              I mentioned dream-flying to a friend once and he replied, “yeah I don’t like dream-flying because I always get tired of flapping my wings.” Another thing that never occurred to me, because I don’t flap 🙂

            • Robert Eckert

              I don’t have wings but have to make a kind of breast-stroke motion that cuts the air just right.

            • MarcabExpat

              That sounds kind of cool too.

            • Robert Eckert

              Sometimes when I wake up I feel like I still know how to do it.

    • Ella Raitch

      I remember Bury talking about her experiences back at the VV – sounds horrifying

      • Qbird

        i do not recall that, Ella. I do recall her speaking of out-of-body experiences.
        oh hi, btw! 🙂

        • Ella Raitch

          xx

          • Qbird

            back atcha girly-girl. 2 x’s & a biggo O ~ hug

      • How did you “talk” back at VV, i never found any comments there?

        • Qbird

          There was a way to comment, in real time, back then. However, I have noticed that in those past articles, now, all the comments are gone.

          • ahh – so nothing is saved then

            • Qbird

              sadly, no. too bad, huh, Dice?! I would love to re-read some of those threads.
              Most always, less than 100 comments. easy-peesy

            • yeah! i know RMycroft said something about it a long time ago, so maybe he has something on record.

            • Qbird

              he might — he’s that good at this interwebz thingy

            • btw… i like to add to your Op, that in Scientology your are not supposed to dream at all. That would be a bad sign and the remedy was loads of B1 vitamins and a lot of WooWoo. In my years, i almost never had a dream and nobody i talked with did either, or admitted/remembered they did!

            • Qbird

              Now that’s interesting, Dice. Oh my… not supposed to dream.
              wow.
              I think dreaming is “normal”, natural… all human being do. hmm
              So that ‘worked’ — the B1, etc.
              That stopped you from remembering your dreams?

            • B1 “Tech” comes from the Alcoholic with hallucinations (can’t remember the right word) and to LRH it had no meaning what so ever. To be outside your body and just waiting for the Alarm clock to ring, made more sense to him! After i stopped this Quack in 2014 i started to dream again and always good vivid dreams, no nightmares! Now i have read up on all this, and a good night sleep is a treasure to me. Scios don’t sleep for real 🙂

            • Robert Eckert

              He was able to retrieve the Disqus comments. VV switched back and forth between Livefyre and Disqus, and the Livefyre comments are not retrievable apparently.

            • ahh! yes i remember now

    • As a kid, I used to have a mild version where I’d wake up and my perception would be all screwed up and I would feel simultaneously huge and tiny. The room seemed like it was a tiny box right in front of my face. It was really scary to a 7 or 8 year-old. I’ve read a lot about sleep paralysis and its relationship to many night terrors throughout history and how they’d change depending on popular culture. From being “Hag-ridden” (from whence “nightmare” comes) to modern abduction stories it’s a fascinating subject.

      • Qbird

        I agree wholeheartedly, R2. For me, it has been an eye-opener of sorts.

    • Are you a therapist?

      • Qbird

        heck no. A bartender on occasion. I listen.
        You know something Dodo, maybe all I got is a tender ear.
        ppl talk to me, idk why.

    • dungeon master

      No, but I tell people off in my sleep. The only way I know is whomever isn’t speaking to me for a couple of days.. The wasband swore I appeared awake and cognizant, but I had no memory of it. A sleep therapist explained I was half-awake, but the part where memory and, was it logic? Reason? Not sure what the other thing was. Basically, I would total not censor my thoughts or feelings and so rip whomever a new one with no memory of it.

      • Qbird

        Ha! My boyfriend in college was a psych major. I occasionally talk in my sleep. His gig was to talk back to me. Says he’s trying to talk to my subconscious.
        Me, in my sleep, “Where’s my scooter, where’s my scooter?”
        He, very soft & low, “What do you mean? Why do you need a scooter?”
        Me, some noises & sounds, then I turn my head towards him, SMILE and say, “Cuz I got a lot of scootin’ around to do!” Then he says my speech became all garbled & I started tossing & turning.
        I woke the hell up… & he’s laughing at me.
        And he woke me up gd it — I was not happy & ALSO I did not remember saying anything at all to him.

        • dungeon master

          I have been known to walk and talk in my sleep. In college, one time, I found myself outside my room with the door locked. So I entered thru my suitemates room, and someone was sleeping in my bed, my roommate had her head at the wrong end of the bed, and all the furniture was rearrainged. I went outside and looked at the room number and I was one floor up. Good thing they locked us in at night! Who knows where I’d gone? But then I read one of the signs of an alien abduction is waking up someplace else than you’d gone to sleep, and so I thought ‘those fn aliens put me back on the wrong floor!’ I used to tell this story at parties for laughs, but there was always someone there who would get this look in their eyes and tell their own alien abduction stories.. Cue X-files theme.

        • dungeon master

          My dad used to tell us we told him all our secrets when we talked in our sleep. Luckily he was a bs artist of high degree, and we were good kids, not prone to scandalous secrets. I had a lot of psych majors as roommates in college. Most of them fruitcakes with nuts.

      • wtf 🙂 please tell me more

        • dungeon master

          I wish I remembered! When I was a teenager, I was so afraid I’d say something stupid, I hardly ever talked. By the time I had originated and fully vetted an appropriate response, the conversation had moved on. So at some point I stopped self-censoring every comment, and figured if I said something stupid, wait 5 minutes and someone else will say something stupid and the focus is off me. But still, as an adult, I self-censor a lot. I try not to say things in anger, or rude things, or even unkind things, and I figure telling people off in my sleep is just my sub-conscious mind blowing off steam. I just wish I remembered what I said. I’d probably get a good laugh out of it!

          • hmm i wonder how that would work after TR’s and No Comm-Lag?

            • dungeon master

              I guess we’ll never find out, cuz no way am I getting back in a classroom!

          • “self-censoring” became a big problem for exes after some years outside, i noticed that for some of them. Me also!

            • dungeon master

              I’m a never in, so I can’t blame scientology.. but well brought up ladies, back in the day, did not often speak their own minds. Sad, really, all those years I spent being someone else’s idea of a good person.

            • Ohh yeah! same here. I am never again living someone else’s life or values

    • TexasBroad

      Yes. Many times for many years, although not in the last 30 or so. It started when I was 7 and lasted until my early 20s. It was really scary and unnerving!
      P.S. I miss you lovely people to pieces!!

      • Qbird

        aww man… you and a good many others, TexasBroad. Glad you outgrew it.

      • daisy

        We missed you.

        • TexasBroad

          Awww…thank you Daisy. I’m still catching all the posts, but I’m missing all the fun in the Bunker comments except for a couple a dozen a day. I’ll be back in early 2017 I hope. I truly miss knowing what is going on with everyone.

      • Baby

        Hey Broad.. I have absent too for the most part. Thinking of you Little Bit.. xox love me.

        • TexasBroad

          Love back at you Baby!

    • Liberated

      I have but not lately.

      • Qbird

        That’s good, Liberated. I am very surprised at how many ppl have experienced this.
        I have not. Never even heard of it until recently.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I did a long time ago when I was a scientologist. I was married to another scientologist at the time.

      It was a feeling of not being able to move and a “black cloud” heavy around me and a feeling of creeping evil. Not pleasant. Happened two or three times, then stopped. This would happen in the early morning as I was waking up.

      IIrc, because my wife was a fan of Adele Davis, I took extra vitamin B1, B12, B6, Niacin and also a bunch of minerals around that time to “handle it.”

      I don’t know if that fixed it, but I didn’t have that experience anymore.

      When I was a kid I used to have falling dreams where I would be running and then be falling like I went off a cliff. It disturbed me so much that I learned to just let myself fall in the dream, and I would wake up in my bed with the feeling of landing gently but firmly in my bed, like the mattress itself was rising up underneath me. A very cool feeling by the way and I used to look forward to the falling dreams after that.

  • chukicita

    Pan mentioned somewhere recently that the sun might rise in the west. Don’t know about that but tonight it sure looked like it was setting in the east. Che Bella Luna…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fe03cc5e373d4c4b58fde5f8e902b6a96001665a1ee88c5d5dde7cb14f61f08e.jpg

  • Qbird

    Well, thank you for that bunker. I appreciate all your input.
    Back on topic: Ron was, at the the least, a clever conman with a massive imagination. okay.
    And at worst, he was insane.
    Space aliens, I have never seen one personally. true dat.
    And last, I have heard from so many ppl how good Leah Remini’s A&E docs are so far ~ so YaY for exposing the truth about Scn.
    The sun still rises on Leah’s face.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/816c77c0439ca2824cd2c5e4df23cb26ff469ff7bb61a0521c367dcaaa9c9496.png Beware mama lions.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Are you not watching Leah’s show, Qbird?

      • Qbird

        can’t anymore, no TV for Q

        but I got youse guys. 😀

  • Vaquera

    Hey, are we watching Leah’s Q&A on A&E in 20 minutes?

    • Qbird

      cool. All those who can, pls comment.
      (I have suspended my TV service for the winter.)
      I am counting on you guys.

  • Vaquera

    Leah has invited the producer of Aftermath to her house to try and explain Scientology to him.

  • Vaquera

    Explaining the time and money requirements. If you have a job, you have to figure it out the timing.

    • daisy

      I am gathering from the comments Leah had a new Qand A , or was it a sneak peek for tomorrows show ?

      • Vaquera

        I saw it referred to as both a sneak peek and as a Q&A.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Both, apparently. Questions from the producer as a promo for tomorrow.

        • daisy

          i saw it was on the listings and thought it was a re-run. I wanted to watch it again, but mom said * I hate scientology * I said * So do I , lets watch * My mom who has never watched TV until the last couple of years, wanted to watch a cartoon. We settled on Stuart Little. uuugggjhh We are visiting nursing homes tomorrow . Just kidding, I will write soon

          • Vaquera

            Did she really say ‘wartch?’ My dad is from the plains states and says things such as “I warshed the car.”

            • daisy

              Well she is a little confused at the moment so she might have, but it was a spelling error. Thanks for the catch.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Daisy…

            Nope. Not sure what to say.

            • daisy

              You were meant to laugh.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I did, I did. But then I also wanted to offer solidarity.

              It was confusing.

              So I had another beer.

          • Sherbet

            Next time, tell her Justin Bieber will make a cameo appearance.

  • Vaquera

    This is a “Just the facts, ma’am” show.
    The producer asking questions about how, where and how much. Leah giving frank answers.
    Good factual primer for those who are new to the subject.

  • Vaquera

    Now she’s got a poster of the bridge courses and explaining the path.
    Lower courses have some useful classes.

  • Vaquera

    Rinder explaining the diff between auditing and Sec Checking.

  • Missionary Kid

    Holy shit, Batman! There’s another Leah Remini show on right now. It’s about 20 minutes long, entitled “What went down.” It’s Leah explaining to her director the shit that Scientology puts out. It’s on DirecTV eastern feed now, and will be on again at 11:03.

    • Vaquera

      Scroll down a bit, hon.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks. It was such a surprise. I turned on the TV, and the DVR was recording it. I rushed to post it without checking. Mea culpa.

        • Vaquera

          No worries, flyboy.

  • Vaquera

    The Bridge is a steady source of income

  • iampissed

    Must be Tuesday somewhere…no spoilers.

    • Vaquera

      This is a special 20 minute Q&A.

      • iampissed

        Ah thanks

    • Missionary Kid

      It will be repeated again in 4 hours.

      • iampissed

        Thx

  • Good Tuesday and the rest of the week to all. This will be good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dl4VPw0mgI

  • Amy Scobee is being followed and filmed.

    https://twitter.com/AmyScobee/status/808510527068483584

    • Ella Raitch

      Booooooo!

    • WTF! #¤&%¤”&&

    • kemist

      Bunch of creeps.

      Nice work, Dave. Looks like there will be a season 2.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Fuckers.

    • Call a 911 – “Citizens concern” on them! We had that option in Florida

    • Chee Chalker

      I’m really starting to be concerned about the Wee One’s mental health.
      After all the exposure Scientology The Aftermath brought to Amy’s story, that miniature moron can’t help himself. He continues with the footbullets. What can he possibly hope to gain at this point? As if some loser with a camera is going to stop anything…..

  • Here is something i found out after some test…It appears that we can attach some links and Hashtags to their annoying “Tweets” that will follow it around.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fe971870696bc674c8dfc04062bb324960e3df6e894d2b28d07b9400f90b3fc5.png

  • Tony Ortega

    Well, crap. Now that you got that sneak peek, what do you need me for?

    I’ve just seen the entire episode, but I don’t think I’m going to tell you anything about it. So there.

  • Ella Raitch

    OMX OMX OMX

    Just doing a bit of a midday news recon and checked Australia edition of Huffpo which had an item of our own dear Senator Nick Xenophon (“Nick Xenophon Is Playing The Long Game, And After 19 Years He’s Only Warming Up. The No Pokies, deal-making, ‘media terrorist’ is just getting started”)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/12/11/nick-xenophon-is-playing-the-long-game-and-after-19-years-hes/?utm_hp_ref=au-homepage

    The read itself is great but look what’s posted in the middle of the article
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/30232317fe5134b9bccfa8468d8f76603e9914809254eaf0be7bf5f43da4719d.jpg
    NOLA is a rock star!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Tell Xenophon he owes me an Australian vacation. Publicity fee. ROFL!! 😀

    • Gotta love the guy:
      “When Senator Nick Xenophon passes through Australian Customs he always lists his occupation as ‘agitator’. It’s impossible to dispute and provides a chuckle, hopefully, for the Customs officers.

      “I think it’s accurate, I am not deceiving anyone,” Xenophon tells The Huffington Post Australia. “They probably think ‘what a dickhead!'””

  • I just sat down to check on you guys after an exceptionally great day. Just feel like saying again how wonderful it is undoing the extreemly thick and complex indoctrination that is scientology. Thx and I sure ‘would like others to have similar gains’ (after all ‘bridge’ actions a scientologist is asked by the Examiner “Would you like others to have similar gains?” ) FN VGIS (floating needle Very Good Indicators) I look forward to seeing my friends here soon. Its one thing to leave and a completly other essential understanding to know exactly what you are leaving. You all help with truly leaving and healing. I hope you all have wonderful holidays. ♡

  • MaxSpaceman

    That’s one fantastic breakdown of the sci-fi space crap that Hubbard was slinging as “the truth of the universe/a religion” from 1952 to the late 60s. Amazing to see the fantastic pile of dung slung together like that across months and years, all mounting up to complete vomit of idiocy.

    And few cherch members and Sci-borg Sea Org even get to hear this stuff over a membership of 15 years… Even more bizarre than the Invader Forces bilge.

    But this fellow will give up anything to protect planet earth from The Fifth and The Fourth because only he and best budd are powerful enough to do it. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0caf607094270dd9a3c21ebe1769168fbfb29034a630bc8206d56381d30e3cc9.jpg

    • Ella Raitch

      Ugh – just saw a headline this week saying he is leaving Scientology to go back to Suri. All about muddying the waters.

  • Here is a picture from this Winter Wonder Scam. Notice the picture of LRH ha ha… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/598a61715a84406ed34caf46ac94428973d45b31eec7373d0e6f230820fa7f18.png

    • Liberated

      Those people don’t look very jolly.

      • They mean business – Buy or Die!

        • Liberated

          I’d rather die.

          • Look how he is poking at you with a selfie-stick! Ugh!

            • Liberated

              Where is this winter wonder scam?
              They look like they’re in the RPF.

              I went to a pet store today and bought catnip for my new friend…he’s so spoiled and so happy.

            • This picture is from Saint Hill UK
              catnip – lol, then your sure he will never leave your hotel

            • Liberated

              You’re kidding, saint hill U.K. ……looks more like eastern europe circa..1990.
              They’re not even trying to look “up tone”… poor schmucks I feel bad for them.

              Oh I know the little bugger will never leave me, especially now since he has his own “Nip Box”, I’m sure he’s in there right now, all curled up inside.
              The only time he comes to me is when he needs something
              Typical.

            • Does it know what a fridge is yet?

    • MarcabExpat

      Santa’s elves are obviously nearly ready to mutiny.

  • Vaquera

    Tacos. I want tacos.

  • Dave Reams

    So the fifth invader force had to contend with the angry homo sapien pope too?

  • Andrew Robertson

    No posts for the last two hours? Has the ASC been shuddered into silence at last? Or has the Fifth Invader Fleet landed and rounded up all the suppressives to transport them to the Calmag mines on the planet Zog?

    Andrew

    • Liberated

      No, most of us are drunk and went to bed.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      I’m busy hunting for Xenu.
      Iam sure he is imprisoned in the bottom of this tub of Rum and Raisin Ice cream and Iam determined to free him if I have to eat every last drop.
      It is my civic duty, dammit.

      Sorry. I may have had too much sugar. 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        I could have helped with that. #GorgeForXenu

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Aww. Thanks Lurker.
          Only a true friend would help you dig Xenu out from under a mountain of ice cream. 😀

          • LongtimeLurker

            ; )

    • LongtimeLurker

      I was fighting the good fight on Twitter. Also trying to find something interesting for Today in Scientology.

      Also having a beer.

    • Ella Raitch

      How’s is shakin’ Andrew?

  • Mockingbird

    Good alien invader forces filled day Bunkeroos.

    The Indies take bits from the Antichrist version of OT VIII and David Icke and Alex Jones and David Avocado Wolfe and Captain Bill’s doctrine and Mike McClaughry’s ideas (among others) and claim a literal war between universes is going on with the fifth invader force aborning (in Hubbard’s words – meaning currently coming into existence) from a different universe into the physical universe to conquer it. Some people (aka feezoners) claim the seventh dynamic is a universe of thetans that are trying to conquer and enslave the thetans that were already dumped into the physical universe long, ling ago. Like two hundred quadrillion years ago. The interdimensional and multiversal conspiracy theories encomass ideas from the Matrix films, other UFO cults, ancient astronaut theories and of course time travel like in the TV show Continuum.

    There is something very interesting about how people used to get routed through Scientology. In 1950 you had Dianetics and that was it. By 1952 with the Philadelphia Doctorate Course you had extensive space opera past lives in earlier planets, galaxies and sectors. By the late fifties space opera was quite extensive. It wasn’t confidential either. Anyone could buy History of Man or the PDC tapes.

    Hubbard changed the routes through Scientology to de-emphasize the more outlandish elements of the ideas he plagiarized from UFO cults and occult sources like Crowley and the earlier insane cult text OAHSPE.

    The ultimate twist comes on OT VIII the Antichrist version as a multidimensional war is added.

    He saw in my opinion a pattern. Things that he plagiarized that seemed like psychoanalysis or a mental therapy did better than things that required brand new people to commit to past lives, space opera and complicated long histories of various misadventures before earth.

    I believe History of Man, Creation of Human Ability, Science Of Survival and other super complicated things didn’t sell well and actually caused Scientology to lose people. They just didn’t believe it if it was early in indoctrination.

    Metered auditing and book one Dianetics seemed easier to swallow and so did better with new people. And over time the tech and admin dictionaries served a specific purpose. They had definitions from the space opera side, but didn’t go into great depth on space opera so people had to use their imagination to create beliefs about the material being study.

    So lots of routes in are now preparatory for further information that comes much later. The clever thing about the introductory routes is deceptively simple. If a person for example tried Dianetics as a sort of poor man’s mental therapy and was open to past lives abd space opera they would see bits of it in the references they use in Scientology course rooms for definitions. The lexicon has definitions compiled a specific way to overwhelm and confuse students. Hubbard intentionally made words refer to each other for definitions over and over so he weaved a web of interconnected lies. They have to be understood to be undone but trying to untangle one gets you entrapped by a hundred more.

    The definitions of overt, withhold, auditing, clear, engram, charge, tone level, each individual tone level, tone scale, OT, theta, thetan, lock, secondary, motivator, and many other things are all tied to other words from Scientology. It leads a Scientologist on an impossible wild goose chase that never ends.

    So here’s the kicker. Hubbard knew that if someone was brought in by Dianetics or the purification rundown and in their word clearing found interest in Scientology and whole track space opera then they could be enticed by a mystery of what these space opera ideas really translate into in experiences in Scientology.

    Some people will want the information about the past, as who wouldn’t want to know about past civilizations if they actually existed ? And who wouldn’t want to recall past lives if they genuinely exist too ?

    The people that get interested get sold books like History of Man and tape lectures from the fifties and sixties on the whole track space opera. They also get encouraged to do the OT levels if they are well off or can beg, borrow and steal the immense wealth required to do those levels. Even people with more modest means get sold OT hatting courses on tapes about the whole track.

    People that don’t immediately develop interest in the space opera elements in Scientology can stay on the route they came in on. More Dianetics or basic courses or introductory services can be done.

    It’s designed to create suggestions on what will be found in auditing, whether Dianetics or Scientology auditing. Then it gets reinforced over and over by definitions for terms in Scientology which are not evaluated, just taken in as facts on course.

    They covertly shift thought and frame future thinking. After all, a Scientologist KNOWS engrams, the reactive mind, suppressive people and a million other things exist as Hubbard said – making thinking of the world as anything but what he claimed it is extremely difficult if not impossible.

  • Mockingbird

    Repost from below
    Good alien invader forces filled day Bunkeroos.

    The Indies take bits from the Antichrist version of OT VIII and David Icke and Alex Jones and David Avocado Wolfe and Captain Bill’s doctrine and Mike McClaughry’s ideas (among others) and claim a literal war between universes is going on with the fifth invader force aborning (in Hubbard’s words – meaning currently coming into existence) from a different universe into the physical universe to conquer it. Some people (aka feezoners) claim the seventh dynamic is a universe of thetans that are trying to conquer and enslave the thetans that were already dumped into the physical universe long, ling ago. Like two hundred quadrillion years ago. The interdimensional and multiversal conspiracy theories encomass ideas from the Matrix films, other UFO cults, ancient astronaut theories and of course time travel like in the TV show Continuum.

    There is something very interesting about how people used to get routed through Scientology. In 1950 you had Dianetics and that was it. By 1952 with the Philadelphia Doctorate Course you had extensive space opera past lives in earlier planets, galaxies and sectors. By the late fifties space opera was quite extensive. It wasn’t confidential either. Anyone could buy History of Man or the PDC tapes.

    Hubbard changed the routes through Scientology to de-emphasize the more outlandish elements of the ideas he plagiarized from UFO cults and occult sources like Crowley and the earlier insane cult text OAHSPE.

    The ultimate twist comes on OT VIII the Antichrist version as a multidimensional war is added.

    He saw in my opinion a pattern. Things that he plagiarized that seemed like psychoanalysis or a mental therapy did better than things that required brand new people to commit to past lives, space opera and complicated long histories of various misadventures before earth.

    I believe History of Man, Creation of Human Ability, Science Of Survival and other super complicated things didn’t sell well and actually caused Scientology to lose people. They just didn’t believe it if it was early in indoctrination.

    Metered auditing and book one Dianetics seemed easier to swallow and so did better with new people. And over time the tech and admin dictionaries served a specific purpose. They had definitions from the space opera side, but didn’t go into great depth on space opera so people had to use their imagination to create beliefs about the material being study.

    So lots of routes in are now preparatory for further information that comes much later. The clever thing about the introductory routes is deceptively simple. If a person for example tried Dianetics as a sort of poor man’s mental therapy and was open to past lives abd space opera they would see bits of it in the references they use in Scientology course rooms for definitions. The lexicon has definitions compiled a specific way to overwhelm and confuse students. Hubbard intentionally made words refer to each other for definitions over and over so he weaved a web of interconnected lies. They have to be understood to be undone but trying to untangle one gets you entrapped by a hundred more.

    The definitions of overt, withhold, auditing, clear, engram, charge, tone level, each individual tone level, tone scale, OT, theta, thetan, lock, secondary, motivator, and many other things are all tied to other words from Scientology. It leads a Scientologist on an impossible wild goose chase that never ends.

    So here’s the kicker. Hubbard knew that if someone was brought in by Dianetics or the purification rundown and in their word clearing found interest in Scientology and whole track space opera then they could be enticed by a mystery of what these space opera ideas really translate into in experiences in Scientology.

    Some people will want the information about the past, as who wouldn’t want to know about past civilizations if they actually existed ? And who wouldn’t want to recall past lives if they genuinely exist too ?

    The people that get interested get sold books like History of Man and tape lectures from the fifties and sixties on the whole track space opera. They also get encouraged to do the OT levels if they are well off or can beg, borrow and steal the immense wealth required to do those levels. Even people with more modest means get sold OT hatting courses on tapes about the whole track.

    People that don’t immediately develop interest in the space opera elements in Scientology can stay on the route they came in on. More Dianetics or basic courses or introductory services can be done.

    It’s designed to create suggestions on what will be found in auditing, whether Dianetics or Scientology auditing. Then it gets reinforced over and over by definitions for terms in Scientology which are not evaluated, just taken in as facts on course.

    They covertly shift thought and frame future thinking. After all, a Scientologist KNOWS engrams, the reactive mind, suppressive people and a million other things exist as Hubbard said – making thinking of the world as anything but what he claimed it is extremely difficult if not impossible.

  • LongtimeLurker

    One of many (many) “we’re all gonna die in nuclear fire” songs from my youth in the 80s.
    Tracks like Underneath the Radar, 99 Luftballoons, etc.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q26zl7x_EFE

  • Juicer77

    Greetings! The Prague Christmas markets were wonderful. Here is the tree in the Old Town Square. f5

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d875d61753b73f2e83789fc0f3443199a5cb3159bf4f94afb57aa8ab1d02ee9f.jpg
    Looking foward to tonight’s $camatology episode. Interesting to see they are following Amy Scobee again (per her Twitter feed). If that’s the best they got, they really are in trouble.

  • A new name for our Hair Weave-in-Chief: Trumplethinskin
    From this:
    “As Trumplethinskin lets down his hair for tech, shame on Silicon Valley for climbing the Tower in silence”
    http://www.recode.net/2016/12/12/13917982/trump-hair-tech-summit-shame-silicon-valley

    • My assessment of that statement is that you are a Fart Invader.

      • He could “shoot people on 5th Avenue” and not lose your support.
        Enjoy.

        • Have fun with your insane hate life.

          • He said it not me.

          • “Insane hate life”?
            Now THIS is an insane hate life.Rump’s buddy. Enjoy:
            “The co-chairman of Donald Trump’s New York campaign, who said he hoped Barack Obama would die of mad cow disease and Michelle Obama would move to Africa and live in a cave with a gorilla, has said he will not resign from the Buffalo school board.

            Despite the fact the Buffalo Board of Education voted to remove Carl Paladino, a New York developer and leading supporter of Mr Trump, on Thursday, he has said he will not be standing down.

            “[Barack] Obama catches mad cow disease after being caught having relations with a Her[e]ford,” he said.

            Referring to Michelle Obama, he said: “I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla.”
            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-carl-paladino-buffalo-school-board-michelle-obama-barack-gorilla-a7502006.html
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a02ba6f966df05262767d9407e2db82378f23bd154b0a96011cb83b0578e858.jpg

            • That’s the trouble with you cowardly anonymous “liberal” knucklheads – you can’t think. You blindly and wrongly assume that, because I’m conservative, I would blindly goose-step along with any statement or action of any other person who supports or is a conservative. Which is, naturally, as stupid as a mealworm. Actually, that might be an insult to mealworms. You’re no better than Nazis in your thinking, but they were National SOCIALISTS, weren’t they?

            • Hey, he’s YOUR guy. Enjoy.

            • I fully sympathize with the horrible emotional turmoil you must suffer because your daddy hated you for being an ugly baby, but you really shouldn’t act out in public.

            • Still got a lot of Scientology in ya huh Skip.
              Bull baiting, distraction, vitriol, ad hominem.
              And yeah, labelling people sure saves a lot of thinking, no?
              So, you’re a Paladino guy. Because I don’t see you disavowing him or helping to distance your guy from him.
              What do you think about his comments? Should or will your guy condemn them?
              You know what LRH said, “Birds of a feather…..”
              But I’m the one acting out, and living an “insane hate life”.
              Yes, how did you guess? My daddy hated me because I was an ugly baby from that botched coat hanger abortion, which was also a reason he hated me.
              And I’m uglier than I’ve ever been. I’m hideous.

            • I’m no Paladino fan – that’s just another idiot idea in your fevered brain. Thanks for admitting the obvious with your last line. You should call ISIS and say “Help! I need a life!”

      • Kudos for “Fart Invader”..

  • To be persnickety, I believe you’re talking about “The Role of Earth” not just “Role of Earth.” The one I listened to talked about a disembodied alien taking over bodies and helping start World War I with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife, Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg, in 1914. I forget whether the assassin, Gavrilo Princip, was a “takeover” alien or if it was the Archduke but I seem to recall it was a 4th Invader going after a 5th Invader, or vice versa. Now, how would Elwrong know about this “incident”? Becuse he pulled it out of his own ass. The thing you have to remember about the 50s and even 60s is that sci-fi was exciting and had been since the 30s with Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. A lot of people who got into $cientology bought into sci-fi writer Hubbard’s new “philosophy” because they wanted sci-fi to be real and to go to other planets. As far as Vonni goes, I knew him since he was a baby and he’s a nice guy and a fine actor, but I don’t think he’s very bright or even inquisitive about the “religion” he supports – he’s just going along to get along.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m going to disagree about your assessment that “The thing you have to remember about the 50s and even 60s is that sci-fi was exciting and had been since the 30s with Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.” Those were popular characters, indeed, but they are considered by people who are readers of science fiction to be products of the pulp era of science fiction. They were also popularized by their serialization in comic books and the serials shown along with features for kids.

      Yes, there was a lot of cartoonish action, but they are considered a part of the “pulp age” of science fiction and not the “golden age” of science fiction, which is widely considered to have started with Campbell’s assumption of the editorship of Astounding in 1937, and even then, he didn’t really develop his stable of writers until the 1940’s.

      Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke were the big three of Science fiction, and their heyday was from the late 1940’s on, until the “new wave” style hit in the 1960’s and ’70’s.

      Hubbard was a part of the pulp era, and his style of writing was on its way out when he got Campbell interested in the 1950’s. The golden era was more about the ideas than the action. It was about the path of humanity and ideas.

      The reason that Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov’s stories hold up today is not because of the action or technology involved, but the ideas. Many of their scenarios they created are now technologically outdated, but the ideas carry through. Also, the technology of film making has enabled depictions of technology that they wrote about at that time, but the stories carry through.

      By the time that I started reading science fiction in about 1955, Campbell had already moved on past Dianetics. My opinion is that Hubbard’s other fiction writing style was well on its way out when Campbell published Dianetics. He was a known author, but as a fiction writer, was second or third rate. Dianetics was simply published, IMO, because of Campbell’s penchant for oddball ideas.

      Hubbard was the beneficiary of the flying saucer and UFO hysteria that I remember well from the 1950’s, as well as the development of new, postwar technology that made almost everything seem optimistically possible with the prospect of using nuclear energy to bring about an unlimited future.

      If it wasn’t for the clams buying up multiple copies of what was essentially a self-published novel and all of the publicity for it, Battlefield Earth wouldn’t have sold shit.

      Hubbard was paid by the word, and his writing shows it. He writes like a kid who has to turn in a 500 word essay, and inflates the number of words for what would be a 300 word essay so that it meets the number count.

      • You’re wrong. Just about everyone I knew on staff at CC and most public were sci-fi fans. Kids in my generaton grew up watching sci-fi on TV. Anne Francis, the luscious female star of “Forbidden Planet” was a public person at CC on 8th Street. It doesn’t matter when Elwrong wrote his not so great sci-fi, what I’m talking about is the attitude toward it in the 50s and 60s and 70s, particularly Baby Boomers, and how the sci-fi “aura” of $cientology attracted people. I think you’re probably a decade or so older than me, though, and not sure you were even in the cult, so how could you know.

        • Missionary Kid

          I had a brief brush with Dianetics at A. E. Van Vogt’s house about 1959. Van Vogt, a fellow science fiction writer did not follow Hubbard into $cientology. The reason that I went was because my sister, who was getting auditing from Van Vogt’s wife, brought me along, and I was hoping to meet a real, live science fiction author. My sister bailed on Dianetics about a few months later.

          By the time I got body routed by a cute woman in the ’70s, I had enough sense to give a fake name, address, and phone number. (Someone here in the bunker nailed me because whoever had that number is probably still getting calls from Co$).

          Now that I’ve had a chance to think of it, I agree with most of your points.

          I had a brief encounter with Anne Francis a few months before she died and got to tell her that I admired her work. Even then, she was a beautiful lady.

          I have to admit that I never bothered to watch anything more than snippets of “Forbidden Planet” on TV, decades after it was made, and I dismissed it as space opera, but by then I had seen a lot of other science fiction movies, so perhaps I didn’t realize how groundbreaking the film was in comparison with its contemporaries.

          Most of my exposure to science fiction was from reading an extensive amount of it from about 1955 on, and, IMO, only recently has film technology attained the ability to put up on the screen many of the ideas that were published decades before. My prejudice is toward written science fiction.

          I’m wondering how many of the people at CC had actually read much mainstream science fiction and compared LRH’s writing with other writers, or if they were just enchanted with the idea that he’d been a science fiction writer. $cientology, in its attempt to deify LRH, has mythologized his role as a writer, and I think a lot of that spilled over to $cientologists’ thinking of the quality of his writing because my opinion of his science fiction writing is that he was a hack. (That includes all of his $cientology writing).

          • Elwrong tried to make nice with A.E. in the mid-70s, sent some Sea Org guys to see him. He was friendly to them, never found out what happened. People at CC read a lot of SF authors and talked about them. Particularlly popular was the Lensmen series by “Doc” Smith which most people I knew considered to be a description of Operating Thetans. Outwardly to the public, sci-fi was persona non grata and Yvonne Jentzsch squelched talking about it around public with regard to her boss being a sci-fi writer – they wanted him taken seriously. That all changed when $cientologist Lon Tinney, a prod. manager on Star Wars, clued Elwrong in and he wrote Revolt in the Stars hoping to cash in using the OT3 story. Forbidden Planet was based on The Tempest and made a great impact on me when I saw it because it had a deeply moral core. Hubbard was more a pulp writer than sci-fi, really, but that gets lost in the shufle of pages. The best thing he ever wrote was Typewriter in the Sky, a comedy John Travolta should’ve made when young because it would’ve been a hit. One of the oddest things that ever happened to me was when I joined the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America (my first pro writer organization) and in the monthly (quarterly?) booklet they sent out, in the section listing new members, there was my name, right next to L. Ron Hubbard. LOL

            • Missionary Kid

              Your last sentences got a laugh out of me, but, thinking further about it, the SF&FWOA wasn’t formed until 1965, so it’s logical, given LRH’s lack of regular SF output in the time after starting Dianetics and $cientology, that he wouldn’t apply until you did. (I would classify all of his $cientology writing as SF, but maybe that’s just me).

              When I first started to post here on the Bunker, I said that A.E. had been fair gamed, and Tony slapped me down for being so insistent about it after checking with his sources. It turns out that my statement was based on an earlier Wikipedia entry that I had read at least a year before. Since then, it had been edited, and I was suspicious that $cientology had a hand in the editing, but Tony didn’t think so. It really isn’t that important.

              Apparently, LRH more or less left his contemporaries alone, like Heinlein and, later Harlan Ellison. I believe it was because they more or less let him do his thing, and didn’t speak out against him. He probably also felt that they had the dirt on him, and could really expose him, but that’s all conjecture on my part.

              It seems that whatever stories or movies are written, $cientologists interpret as being really about $cientology. It’s kind of like the fundamentalism I was brought up in that has fundamentalist Christians pointing to current events and trying to fit them into their end times scenario as proof that Jesus is coming back soon.

              IMO, Jesus will return when LRH does.

            • Elwrong applied because it was a statement that “I’m back” with RITS, which he and the noobs at A Brilliant Film Company (they had the cheek to call it that, thought would be a masive hit, and he could collect the $666,000 due first day of principal photography). On his contemporaries, I had a dialogue with Virginia Heinlin one time, checking out whether LRH and Robert were really roommates, and also had a print debate with Ellison about writers in the L.A. Weekly when he wrote a column there. Ellison didn’t leave him alone so much – he swore repeatedly he was in a gathering of writers when Elwrong said the real way to make money was to start a religion and he was going to start one. Van Vogt kept Dianetics going until 1961, you know – I was told that when Humbug went with the religion stuff A.E. broke away (or something like that, I don’t really care).

            • Missionary Kid

              Ellison can be one prickly motherfucker. At one time, I knew one of his attorneys, Henry Holmes, who he actually dedicated one of his books to. Henry’s pretty much retired, I understand, but at the last Academy Awards, one of the recipients thanked him.

              What did Virginia Heinlein have to say about Hubs, if you’d care to share?

            • Not much. We just traded letters, I believe. I say “I believe” because at one point I was trying to get famous people who had an Elwrong connection to come speak to a writers group I chaired every month at Celebrity Centre. I know I asked about their early association – I wrote him, she answered, said he wasn’t well and that they’d known each other well for a short time or something like that.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. Every time I give blood, I think of RAH. I’m up to 40 gallons credit, but I got double credit for donating platelets. I used to give platelets every 3 weeks.

            • Ms.P

              “That all changed when $cientologist Lon Tinney, a prod. manager on Star Wars, clued Elwrong in and he wrote Revolt in the Stars hoping to cash in using the OT3 story.” Skip what did ever happen to Lon? and I remember back in the day of Star Wars he was the big celeb at CC (yawn). I was good friends with the wife back then but ok nevertheless another friggin story.

            • Beats me. I went to a party at his house where the big thing of the evening was him revealing the name of the second movie – The Empire Strikes Back. Last time I saw him, last movie credit he has listed was in 1994. Looked him up and says he lives in Santa Monica now.

  • Wow, this was great! Thanks for sharing about this. Does Scientology say anything about the origin of the universe? I know it’s trillions of years old. Is it eternal? Would love to know. Am i right in thinking that Scientology has no notion of a Creator?