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What’s the worst that can happen when you sue Scientology? Here’s one frightening example.

laptopevidence

 
It’s the kind of nightmare courtroom scenario that keeps all but a few lawyers from going near litigation with the Church of Scientology.

On August 26, a woman who for two years has been suing numerous Scientology-connected people and entities was ordered by a federal district court to turn over the entire contents of her personal laptop hard drive to the people she was suing.

Everything on her hard drive. Her personal emails with her own attorneys. Emails to her family members. Her personal photographs. Her personal medical records. Even photographs of her breasts that she had taken to document her fight against breast cancer.

Gigabytes of intensely personal information and photos and passcodes, all handed over by a federal magistrate judge to the attorneys representing Scientology’s entities.

And only after that ruling was made did the woman’s attorneys learn a barely believable additional detail. The judge who made that ruling? Before he became a judge in 2003, he had worked for the very law firm he turned the woman’s laptop over to, a law firm where his wife still works to this day.

People occasionally tell us they want to sue the Church of Scientology. And we always ask them, do you have any idea what you’re in for?

 

————–

 
We first learned about Karla Taylor and the National Association of Forensic Counselors in 2013. Two former officials who had worked at Scientology’s Narconon drug rehabs, Lucas Catton and Eric Tenorio, had come forward to tell harrowing stories about how Narconon clinics deceived potential customers and put patients at risk (a story they told NBC’s Rock Center). In particular, they alleged that the staffs at Scientology rehabs had obtained counseling credentials in fraudulent ways and were misrepresenting those credentials on websites in order to fool potential patients.

Narconon employees claimed to be tested as “Certified Chemical Dependency Counselors” by the NAFC. But Tenorio and Catton said that some of the CCDC certificates had been obtained in bogus ways, and Taylor learned that many staff members who claimed to hold CCDC certs had let them expire years before. Narconon websites, meanwhile, made misleading claims that the NAFC approved of what was happening in the rehabs.

Taylor spent more than a year gathering evidence about the way Narconon clinics were misusing NAFC logos and certifications before she filed suit in May 2014, initially naming 82 defendants — including numerous Scientology Narconon rehab centers as well as Scientology leader David Miscavige. With the help of attorney David Keesling, Taylor, an Indiana resident, filed the lawsuit in Oklahoma, where Scientology’s flagship rehab, Narconon Arrowhead, was located. The NAFC lawsuit was ambitious; it alleged that individual rehabs were misrepresenting their certifications in a widespread conspiracy involving Miscavige himself. And if the goal was ambitious, the potential payout under trademark law was huge, our legal experts told us.

But Scientology did not gain its scorched-earth litigation reputation for nothing. Soon, Karla Taylor began to learn just what it meant to live with Scientology diving into her personal history, looking for any edge in the case.

We learned in November 2014 that Scientology had hit paydirt digging into Taylor’s private life, and they made sure news organizations heard about it. Her husband, Frank Palani, turned out to be a scumbag of legendary proportions. Under a previous name, Frank Deisler, he was committing horrible crimes by the time he was 13 and raped a 7 year old girl. He went on to commit armed robberies and more rapes as an adult. In one scheme, he and a friend targeted homes that were for sale, raping women who were home while their husbands were at work.

Somehow, after he served prison time for his crimes, Deisler lied his way into getting the credentials to counsel drug abusers and sex offenders, which never should have happened if the state agencies that licensed him had looked into his past.

Karla Taylor’s attorney Deesling insisted to us that Deisler’s criminal history had happened many years before Taylor met him, and she had no knowledge of it. He went to prison, Deesling said, when Taylor was just a toddler (he was 31 years her senior). And even though the two of them had founded the National Association of Forensic Counselors, Deesling said that Deisler had retired and was no longer its president, and Karla was divorcing Deisler because he had not been truthful with her.

But Scientology’s attorneys had their theme. In court documents, they have continued to tell the tale that the NAFC was founded as an illegitimate enterprise, and that it never had any business certifying people for sensitive work. (That didn’t explain, however, why Scientology had gladly used the NAFC’s certifications for years to give the impression that its drug rehabs were more legitimate than they actually were.)

For the past year, the two sides have been going through the discovery process, producing tens of thousands of pages of documents, sitting for depositions, and answering interrogatory questions. Deadlines for that process approached this summer, and some of the defendants were using the material they’d gained from Taylor and NAFC to prepare motions for summary judgment to try and get the lawsuit thrown out of court.

And then, in August, Taylor ran into problems turning over interrogatory answers by the court’s deadline. After missing one due date, her answers were promised to Narconon’s attorneys by August 8 when her laptop was hacked on the night of August 7. The hacking was so thorough, and had put in so many controls on her machine, she couldn’t get access to her own hard drive. According to court filings, she overnighted the laptop to a security firm in Florida on August 8 to have it inspected and unlocked.

Naturally, Narconon’s attorneys complained bitterly to Oklahoma Federal District Judge Ronald White’s magistrate judge, Steven Shreder, who was handling the discovery process. On August 26, as punishment for missing the deadline, Judge Shreder ordered that data from Taylor’s laptop hard drive, as well as the NAFC business server, be turned over by a third party IT firm to the defendants’ attorneys.

A transcript captures how much Shreder’s decision stunned Paul DeMuro, the lawyer handling the matter for Taylor in court that day.

Paul DeMuro: Well, I, I just — it is an extraordinary ruling, Your Honor.

Judge Steven Shreder: Well, I think we are in an extraordinary situation here.

DeMuro: …You are giving them the keys to the kingdom that have nothing to do with this case. Her emails with her pastors? Her administrative passcodes?

Shreder: Well, what I said was the consultant can reveal the contents of the hard drive to the attorneys. At the moment that is the order of the Court. Now, if we need to broaden that later on, I will, but right now only the attorneys for the defendants.

DeMuro: Well, I, I am — I don’t know what to say, Your Honor. I understand your order and I am — I am just flabbergasted by its scope and the extraordinary nature of it and I don’t understand how it could be that we can’t be given a couple of days to stay the order given the interests that are at stake.

Shreder: You all understand what I’m ordering as well, right?

[Defendant attorney] Matthew Furton: Yes, sir.

Shreder: OK.

Taylor’s attorneys immediately scrambled in an attempt to head off Shreder’s ruling. District Judge White upheld his magistrate judge’s decision. And the US Tenth Circuit court of appeals denied Taylor’s petition for a writ of mandamus to overturn the ruling, saying that a dispute over a laptop between two private parties was not “a question of substantial importance to the administration of justice.”

 
steven_shreder2

[Judge Steven Shreder, left]

 
Meanwhile, Taylor’s attorneys learned a surprising fact about Judge Shreder. Before he had become a judge in 2003, he had worked as an attorney for Steidley & Neal, an Oklahoma law firm that was among those representing defendants in the lawsuit. At one point, Steidley & Neal had represented 40 of the 82 original defendants sued by Taylor and the NAFC. But 37 of those defendants were voluntarily dropped from the suit in 2015, and the firm today represents three defendants: Jason Burdge, the deputy executive director at Best Drug Rehabilitation, a Narconon-style Michigan rehab that’s part of a small empire run by former Narconon official Per Wickstrom; Robert Newman, senior director for public relations at Narconon Arrowhead in Oklahoma; and the Rev. James McLaughlin, a Houston Methodist minister who is often asked to vouch for Narconon centers.

Appearing for the three defendants in the lawsuit is Steidley & Neal attorney Michelle Harris, whose personal page at the Steidley & Neal website listed as her legal assistant a woman by the name of Sandy J. Shreder.

 
michelleharrisshreder

 
Sandy Shreder is married to Judge Steven Shreder.

On September 2, Taylor’s attorneys filed a motion to have Judge Shreder disqualified from the case because of his connections to Steidley & Neal, the lawyers who now have possession of Karla Taylor’s gigabytes of personal and private information. (The defendants responded that although Sandy Shreder worked for Steidley & Neal, she had not actually worked on the lawsuit, and so there was no conflict that should disqualify Judge Shreder. No decision on the motion has yet been made.)

Meanwhile, (yes, it gets worse), Taylor’s attorney, Paul DeMuro, sent an email to the defendants’ attorneys, imploring them to keep confidential what was on Taylor’s hard drive. To make sure they understood what they had been given possession of, he spelled out some of the private things in Taylor’s data, including the fact that she had taken photos of her breasts as part of her breast cancer treatment.

The Narconon attorneys then turned around and placed DeMuro’s email on the court record as an exhibit objecting to the request for confidentiality, so that the news of Taylor’s battle with breast cancer and other private matters became a public document. (And that’s how we learned about it, as we were perusing the latest filings in the case and were shocked to see what the Narconon attorneys had put on the record.)

 
ktaylorevidence

[From Paul DeMuro’s email that was put into the court record by Narconon’s attorneys]

 
We called Keesling, asking him about what appeared to be an intentional exposure of Karla Taylor’s most intimate personal information by Narconon’s attorneys. “She’s devastated,” he told us, but he added that Taylor was still determined to fight the case. She understood, he said, that her information was now a public record and would become the subject of a news story. But he said it had actually emboldened her, and she wanted the public to know to what extremes her opponents are willing to go.

There have been responses back and forth to the motion to disqualify Judge Shreder, and we’re posting the most recent, which describes arguments on both sides.

And we’ll be watching to see if Judge Shreder is disqualified or if Taylor can get her personal data out of the hands of Scientology’s attorneys from what appears to be an increasingly hostile court.

NAFC vs. Narconon: Reply in Support to Disqualify Judge Shreder by Tony Ortega on Scribd

 
——————–

Paulette_Cooper‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ audiobook now on sale

Audible.com has released the audiobook version of The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper and you can get the book for free if you’re signing up at Audible for the first time!

Read by the author (that’s us), the book tells the incredible tale of a journalist who was among the first to expose Scientology’s controversies, and nearly paid for it with her life. Go to Audible’s website for more details — [US version] [UK version]

To support the Audible launch, Paulette Cooper joined us for an “Ask Me Anything” session at Reddit on September 29, which covered a lot of topics about the book and about this website.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on October 7, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Nautius Maximus

    *Sigh* Michael Pena doesn’t read ‘tabloid stories’ about Scientology because they’re ‘misinformed’.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/06/michael-pena-war-on-everyone-scientology-interview?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_a-film_b-gdnfilm#link_time=1475774615

  • Jenny Griffith
  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I’m simply horrified by this.

  • flyonthewall

    Sorry, wrong board

    • Robert Eckert

      Thanks Legoland!

      • flyonthewall

        there are some really dumb people out there, I don’t even know why I bother sometimes

    • Jimmy3

      People are so aggressive on Lego forums. You’d think they’d fit together nicely, but no.

      • flyonthewall

        he was a megablock troll, I know it. Fuck that guy

      • Baby

        OK now I gotta give it to ya Jimmy.. clever..

  • Jenny Griffith
    • Jimmy3

      She’s the Hear No Suppression thetamonkey.

    • Baby

      ” OMG.. have you been to the castle before? ” ..

      ” OH yes I have been in every inch of it ”

      ” I have been in every square inch of it. ”

      ” As a Guest?”

      ” Oh No I was cleaning the floor with a toothbrush. Every inch.. Every Square inch..” f5

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f0cf7e00f65df18137a115ef56c52fcbd6d62537436935e25c99f2817c7b32ed.jpg

      • Jenny Griffith

        Is the woman in the IAS pic, one of the inch wives?

        • Baby

          nah.. I just put them up for grins Jen… xo

      • Observer

        Hahaha!

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “I will not listen to my BTs, I will not listen to my my BTs, I will not…”

      Given that this IAS Anniversary weekend celebration is one of the biggest events on the $cn calendar, you’d expect there to be plenty of emphasis on getting the last few remaining actual celebs and whales to make the scene, especially given all the recent entheta about $cn circulating in the media.

      Anyone willing to venture a guess about whether or not 3rd BIGGEST Being Tom will show his increasing bloated and jowly mug in public this year? My bet is that he won’t and that he is quietly distancing himself from lil davey the savage, and perhaps even $cn entirely, as a result of having been repeatedly betrayed by his erstwhile BDF (Best Dwarf Friend). I know that I sure would do exactly that, even without the massive public humiliation that TC has suffered from his extremely poor choice of friends!

      • Ms.P

        “My bet is that he won’t and that he is quietly distancing himself…”, I doubt it but we can only hope.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          It’s really just anyone’s best guess at this point, but he’s not broken cover in awhile and attended any of the public $cn events that I’m aware of.

          Public image is everything to Hollywood celebs and TC’s has done nothing but suffer from his association with lil davey. And by now he must be very well aware of how much of chump he’s being perceived as for allowing DM and his minions to spy on and manipulate his relationships, while mining his auditing folders for juicy details to hold up to ridicule while betraying his trust and confidentiality.

          Given all that, he’s almost certain to be wary about maintaining close ties to DM and may already have begun to distance himself from the little rat. Only time will tell, but I’m hopeful that, if nothing else, TC’s own narcissism and outrage at publicly losing face will cause him to distance himself from the tiny tyrant, if not from all of $cn itself.

  • Baby
  • nottrue

    If it isn’t religion why tax exempt…Pena PTS… . https://twitter.com/AntiWestboro/status/784447023730819072

  • Snippy_X

    Shep Smith explains hurricanes in 19 seconds.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYaH5nU1Ls0

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      *facepalm*

      Is he smoking crack?

      • Snippy_X

        ikr doesn’t even mention our pets.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          “Oh and your kids are dead!”

          What in the name of Xenu is that?? I haven’t watched that fuckery in ages but it’s clearly only gotten worse. SMH

      • MarcabExpat

        Shep is always gonna Shep. There is no Shep but Shep, and Shep is his messenger.

      • Missionary Kid

        It’s Fox Faux News. What do you expect?

    • MarcabExpat

      Easily his best work since his subtle, incisive, critique of True Blood.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYoOQVJQ6xc

      • Sookie Sookie

        He said my avatar name, blecchh.

        • MarcabExpat

          But at least with a halfway southern accent, lol.

    • I like him

    • Ms.P

      WTF???? He’s lost it!

    • Robert Eckert

      Don’t take unnecessary journeys! Don’t take risks on treacherous roads! And don’t swim in the sea!
      https://www.facebook.com/souljabo2/videos/1136343803100003/

      • Snippy_X

        Love this! ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Shut up woman ๐Ÿ™‚

    • DoveAlexa

      Hahahahaahaaaaa, it makes me want to go into the hurricane zone and write out, ‘I Survived, Shep’ in seaweed on the beach afterwards. That guy is looney tunes! This needs to be soundbited and spliced on the end of the part of every disaster movie where the scientist is explaining how the world is going to end.

  • Jimmy3

    Way OT: Last night I’m out having a smoke, and I see this guy running toward me from far down the street. He’s shouting, “FUUUUCKK THAAAAAT!!! FUCK THAT!! FUCK ALL OF THAAAATTTTT!!!!”

    And he sees me and starts running toward me. As he approaches I say, “What’s up, man, you okay?”

    “Hell nooo dude, I saw a fucking clown! I don’t like it! I don’t like it. Can I bum a cig? I’m a little jittery. I saw a clown. A big, burly one.”

    So I laughed it off and gave him a cig. But then I started looking around nervously, because maybe the clown had followed him. And of course I’d left my katana in my other pants. So I went inside and locked all the doors.

    I hope that guy is okay. I didn’t see him again.

    • kemist

      You sure it wasn’t a zombie clown ?

      • Jimmy3

        Could’ve been. I know the area where he saw it well, and I wouldn’t rule out there being zombies there.

    • flyonthewall

      you’re brave for approaching him, I would of just hid. I hope the clown didn’t get him. He’s prob ok right? Have there been other clown sightings in your area?

      You don’t need a katana, anything can turned into a deadly weapon. Like a leaf for example. Just jam it up their nose and into their brain. Or a twig. Put it between your fingers in a closed fist and you can just stab them in the ear or eye.

      • Jimmy3

        Yes, when I see a clown I’m going to get close enough to jam a leaf up its nose. Because I’ve always wanted to die a horror movie death.

        • flyonthewall

          what were you going to do with a katana, throw it at him? You’d have to get up close with that too. I’m just trying to help.

          • Jimmy3

            I don’t know, I’ve always wanted to find out if it’s a magic katana. Like maybe when I’m full health, it shoots blasts of magic energy.

            • flyonthewall

              If it’s white with a blue handle then it’s magic

          • Ella Raitch

            “Who throws a shoe”

        • Ben Franklin

          Jimmy, the worst thing a clown can do to you is try to make you laugh.

          • Jimmy3

            There’s no easy way to say this, Ben, but you definitely won’t survive past Halloween. I’m sorry.

            • Ben Franklin

              Zombies, Clowns, Scare Crows, Boogeyman, Big foot, Loch ness monster, and King Kong don’t have nothing on me.

    • nottrue
      • Snippy_X

        It’s no joke!

    • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Kim O’Brien
    • Graham

      You do know he only did that so he could bum a ciggy off you?

      • Jimmy3

        Probably, but it was funny, and worth a cig.

    • Kim O’Brien

      i actually had to sit down with my kid last night and talk to her about viral marketing and a book called IT . ( because ..um ..YES THIS IS FOR THAT BOOK/MOVIE ) Of course , i told her about H.G. Wells ‘ ” War of The Worlds” on the radio ..and how ppl thought we were being invaded by aliens . She said ” oh god …scientologists are doing this ??!! ”

      pretty funny

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Last I heard, a federal judge in a federal court in Oklahoma is subject to Cannon 3 of the Federal Code of Conduct for U.S. Judges, http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges#d. The magistrate judge failed to disclose his relationship with defendants’ counsel so the parties could weigh in on recusal. He failed to disclose that his wife had a financial interest in defendants’ counsels’ law firm (her salary), and that her boss was one of defendants’ lawyers. The fact that Karla Taylor’s lawyers had to bring the relationship up makes this magistrate judge look sloppy at best. Before he ordered any sanction-type of ruling against Taylor, he needed to clear the air about his possible conflicts of interest. This is the kind of situation a judge should avoid to protect his/her reputation. For all he knew, the parties could have agreed that there was no need for recusal if given an opportunity to weigh in. His failure to disclose should mean that he should recuse himself ASAP, and his ruling on the hard drive must be stayed while another judge reviews it.

    • Robert Eckert

      Too late to stay it, the enemy already has everything.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        True, but a new judge can prohibit them from using the material (I know, locking barn door after horse has bolted).

  • Intergalactic Walrus
  • aegerprimo

    OT – Just wanted to let you all know I’ve been lurking, but have been so busy lately I’ve barely had time to read the daily Bunker articles. I’m on team A at my hospital for disasters. Hurricane Matthew is heading for Savannah Georgia. I’ll be hunkered down here for the next 3 days. A hospital is a safe place to be in a bad storm. If the power goes down in the city and county, and if water is shut off, a hospital has electrical generators and its own water source.

    I love y’all and stay safe everyone living on the Southeast coast.

    • Sookie Sookie

      Take care of yourself, AP! I hope it’s a lot less damaging than they’re preparing for, and that you can get rest when you need it. Your patients are lucky to have you.

    • Jimmy3

      You’re not in the Shep Death Zone. You should be okay.

      • flyonthewall

        did you mean Shemp?

        • Jimmy3

          I don’t think Shemp ever casually said, “…and your kids die, too.”

          • flyonthewall

            yeah you’re prob right

    • Observer

      <3

    • Illinoisian

      Sending love, best wishes and energizing thoughts to you from here at home, where I’m regularly checking the progress of the storm. May it be less severe than predicted and may everyone come through it safely.

    • Kim O’Brien

      in all of those cool shows about hospitals ..with all those hot doctors ..whenever there is a tragedy ..they all end up making out in the broom closet .

      you are saving lives and I am thinking about making out with McDreamy in a closet .

      STAY SAFE

    • Kestrel

      Thank you for being there for those in need.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      You stay safe too,aegerprimo – and thank yo for what you are doing!

    • noseinabk

      Hey aeg, I hope you are doing well and are safe.

  • Daaaaayyyyyyyyyyymmmmmnn.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Little Davey wearing his “navy” uniform is a nice touch! Hehe
    (refresh)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/441af2a3d98fe95e25974811d5275a6ded3e43b32a74ae7ae71273883f6bb332.png

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Hurricanes and clown sightings and $cientology legal clusterf%$ks?
    In my world there are also friends expecting babies.
    I spent some of my time today making this baby spoon from a dead
    branch on my pear tree.
    Helps me put DM’s shenanigans in perspective.

    Karla has right on her side.
    These despicable fraudsters used NAFC to give legitimacy to Hubbard’s quackery.
    Narconon, front and money-source for $cientology, is toast.
    This is rear-guard action and slash and burn from a retreating army.

    See that heart, Dave, that I carved into the baby spoon?
    It’s like yours – a hole.
    Tick Tock https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/57f3e7ea7edd236a0a868edfac0c7bbc16ac2e2b064744d265bee95f64c4085c.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0e63199da61feef45ecb8ae94c8067233319c2fb4c0609aeeb16ae1c58128a20.jpg

    • SarahDB

      How beautiful Pan, what a lucky baby!

      Isn’t it wonderful how much more powerful love is than anything on the tone scale??

  • ScnMonkeyNuts

    Very glad that Karla is determined to fight the case, but astonished by Judge Shrederโ€™s ruling… perhaps he should be made aware of $cns โ€˜$piritual $criptureโ€™ regarding the use of the law…… because… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e03e266f17c2c6c511cdc350fc98797ad9a9bdb534bba56d6a4fd601a68a3ac1.jpg ETA: Also…

    โ€œ… The purpose of a lawsuit is to harass and discourage rather than to win…. Don’t ever defend. Always attack. Find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace. Originate a black PR campaign to destroy the person’s repute and to discredit them so thoroughly they will be ostracized. Be alert to sue for slander at the slightest chance so as to discourage the public presses from mentioning Scientology.It is my specific intention that by the use of professional PR (black PR) tactics any opposition not only be dulled but permanently iradicated.โ€” L. Ron HubbardHCOPL 30 May 1974โ€

    … but couldnโ€™t find the original PL to deface!ETA2: PSโ€“Thanks to chukicita for the words ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Kestrel

      They just want to be associated with actual religions with greater numbers of members.

    • Sookie Sookie

      Welp, now I’ve seen everything. I and I can’t wait til they see ‘The Truth About Drugs.’

    • Jimmy3

      If Scientology has more weed than the ASC, we are fucking up.

      And all the weed disappeared from my last post.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I know nothing about that. Nothing. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • SarahDB

          inhales and passes to Nola

      • Kestrel

        Reminds me of the time I spent with a Rasta in Lucea, Jamaica. That was a story.

        • You remember the story? Impressive ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Kestrel

            I was with friends. We were returning on motorcycles to Montego Bay after a day of snorkeling and cliff jumping at Ricks’ Cafe in Negril. They filled in the blank spots. Turns out there were many blank spots.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “Ganja is NOT drug; it’s a religious sacrament! Thanks so much to the CoS for supporting our religious freedom and right to worship as we choose!”

    • Draco

      Haha! I wonder how long it took to get the smell of ganga out of the building.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Trump says that the kids from Central Park Five ~who were proven innocent by DNA and paid out a bajillion dollars by NYC ….and verdicts vacated ….are actually guilty .

    Well . That ought to do it .

  • DoveAlexa

    So the quote goes that the only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing, but it seems a lot like good can do whatever the hell it can and evil still prevails. ๐Ÿ™

    • Jimmy3

      I blame women.

      • Kim O’Brien

        type something to say back to him that is funny …erase …type something …erase …DAMMIT !! …type ….

        fine . You win

      • And we — you.

        • Kestrel

          Thank you for absorbing all the blame, Jimmy3. All this time, I’d been told it was me.

      • Chee Chalker

        I blame clowns

        • iampissed

          It’s always the clowns!

  • Jeb Burton

    Just an update, Matthew a non event in the bay area. Please dont criticize the media for hyping the storm. Better safe, and they have to prepare for what can happen. A lot of people are saying that they hype the storm, so the liberals can claim global warming, If this storm moved just 10 miles inland, it would of been devastating, Scientology seeks out law firms that may have some kind of connection to the judges and plaintiffs need to do the same thing. I think my martinis are starting to get to me. I feel like im talking to the guy on the stool next to me in the bar.

    • Kim O’Brien

      a lot of people say that super powers exist and they pay money to yell at ashtrays

      we don’t listen to them either

  • richelieu jr

    I hereby offer to the court, the attorneys to turn over to them full collar photos of my cock, the same dick that pisses upon them from a great height, as hard as the drives they are slavering over, or the the one currently making David Miscavige, Scilon pope and mini-Mussolini, squeal like a fucking pig, in exchange for this poor woman’s private emailsa d photos.

    This is a one-time, non-negotiable offer, and if accepted in the next 24 hours, comes with the right to take plaster casts of the teeth-marks in my ankles to prove they match what I at first thought to bea cancerous mole on the tip of my penis, but late proved to be David Miscavige, clutching a photo of a famous Hollywood celeb and crying bitter tears over his “covert hostility'”

    Act now, Scientology, while my craven offer to your evil empire still holds.

  • J. Swift

    To an outsider like me, it looks like Judge Steve Shreder is as dirty as hell and is in bed with Scientology.

    Why Judge Shreder did not recuse himself immediately upon being assigned the case is the key question. At best, there is no way Judge Shreder can get around the appearance of impropriety.

    At worst, Judge Steve Shreder ordering the plaintiff to turn over her hard drive as punishment for a late discovery response looks like a dirty judge allowing the defendants law firm, for whom his wife works, a wide open fishing trip through the plaintiff’s computer. To compound matters, lawyers from the judge’s old law firm then enter the contents of the drive into the record.

    One danger to the plaintiff is that attorney-client privileged information is contained in the hard drive and Judge Shreder has just destroyed confidential attorney-client privilege by judicial excess.

    I wonder why Karla Davis didn’t file a Writ of Mandamus to get Judge Shreder’s order reversed, or at least to have a higher court overrule Shreder and appoint a special master.

    This ranks among the scummiest cases in Scientology’s history of litigation. It is right up there what the Cult did to Arnie Lerma.

    • Sookie Sookie

      It looks like they did file the writ of mandamus, but that it was denied. I don’t understand the rationale for that, when the original ruling seems so egregious, even without knowing how the judge is connected to the Sci law firm!

      (From today’s post) ‘…the US Tenth Circuit court of appeals denied Taylorโ€™s petition for a writ of mandamus to overturn the ruling, saying that a dispute over a laptop between two private parties was not โ€œa question of substantial importance to the administration of justice.”‘

      • J. Swift

        Thanks Sookie. The Circuit Court’s ruling is hard to believe as well. The search of an entire hard drive is overly broad, especially if the plaintiff is not allowed to screen for attorney-client privileged information and private medical information first.

        If this were a criminal case in which the government had a basis to argue that the defendant could destroy evidence then one could understand the judge’s order. But in a civil case where the plaintiff’s privileged and private information is at risk the denial of the writ of mandamus is hard to understand.

        The case itself has offered a treasure trove of information on how Narconon works. Despite what happened today, the case can still proceed to trial.

        Scientology’s position that NAFC was founded as an illegitimate enterprise could just as easily be argued about Narconon and the Church of Scientology itself. The basis of Narconon is pseudoscience, fraudulent representations of success rates, and of course the NAFC certs that were fraudulently obtained.

        • Sookie Sookie

          “Scientology’s position that NAFC was founded as an illegitimate enterprise could just as easily be argued about Narconon and the Church of Scientology itself.”

          It’s an even stronger case than the one against the NAFC (for me) since we have documented evidence of the fraudulent practices that are employed at every single Narconon location, per Scientology policy.

          • J. Swift

            Well said. And the fact that Narconon uses duplicitous, misleading, and sham “neutral third parties” who work for Narconon and steer phone calls to Narconon is part of the scam.

            I admire Karla Davis for filing her lawsuit and persevering in the face of the tactics of Scientology’s wog lawyers and the seedy judge in Oklahoma.

        • Mockingbird

          One simple idea covers all Scientology legal matters:

          “Somebody some day will say โ€˜this is illegal.โ€™ By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not.”
          -. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

          So, Scientology decides what is or isn’t legal. Simple really.

    • Mockingbird

      The history of Scientology is jam packed with fair game operations that are infamous. Perhaps we can get a top twenty or hundred heinous acts list !?

      It obviously can include long campaigns and particularly cruel and brutal crimes. But where to begin !!?

      Paulette Cooper, Gerry Armstrong, forced abortions, the hole, RPF, truth rundown, R2-45, chain locker kids edition, the affirmations of Ron Hubbard, “darkening my own children” (Ron Hubbard quote), ecclesiastical beatings, disconnection, disposing of quietly and without sorrow, Scientology says what is legal, “men are my slaves” (Ron Hubbard quote), cadet org, medical fraud including mass murder, ongoing criminal conspiracy, Jon Atack, Hana Eltringham Whitfield, and on and on it goes. Apologies to the tens of thousands of individuals and families I haven’t mentioned, the total is beyond my ability to recall. The details are mind boggling in both sheer size and inhuman cruelty.

      What is the distinction between mere abuse and atrocity ? I don’t know but feel Scientology has eclipsed it.

      I feel kind of stupid for even chiming in with my relative good luck at Scientology “merely” trying thousands and thousands of times to claim an absolute hold of me and get me to disconnect from my family and everything good in my life and “only” trying to drive me to death or madness once with a campaign.

      It’s like a rite of passage to get that and many hundreds, possibly thousands, of other people have had a much worse treatment from Scientology than what I got.

      That’s the hard part to even explain. Sometimes I tell someone a fraction of what I experienced or they read Going Clear or another book with just a tiny fraction of the cruel actions Scientology, Hubbard and now Miscavige dishes out and they can’t fathom how anyone can experience that or survive with any bit of sanity.

      I have two daunting immediate tasks then: to explain that Scientology is much, much worse than what they have seen AND what I went through is just a drop in the bucket compared to what thousands of other people go through and ARE going through.

      Then to bring up the immense subject of recovery and everything I have taken on is too much for most people. They are not ready to hear about the mountain of subjects I had to take on to begin the Scientology recovery process…oh well, that can be for another day.

      • SarahDB

        “darkening my own children”…when does he say that?

        • Mockingbird

          Here’s the actual quote:

          LRH:Your psychology is good. You worked to darken your own children. This failure, with them, was only apparent. The evident lack of effectiveness was “ordered.” The same psychology works perfectly on everyone else. You use it with great confidence.

          Nothing can intervene between you and your Guardian. She cannot be displaced because she is too powerful. She does not control you. She advises you. You may or may not take the advice. You are an adept and have a wonderful and brilliant mind of your own. Ron Hubbard

          From the affirmations of Ron Hubbard

          http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-psychiatric-view-with-comments-on.html

          • SarahDB

            Wow! That’s pretty creepy! I hadn’t read that one.

            • Mockingbird

              You should read the whole affirmations. They show Hubbard himself better than anything else. It’s the top of the Scientology pyramid of hidden knowledge. It was meant to never be discovered while he lived.

      • grundoon

        Scientology’s evil is well known here. But our system of justice is supposed to abate evil, not gratuitously compound it. It is surprising and shocking the way Judge Shreder abuses his position to favor his wife’s boss’s client and Judge White perpetuates the blazing injustice.

    • grundoon

      The case is about Narconon’s misappropriation of NAFC’s trademarks. How did it turn into an investigation of the private life of an officer of the plaintiff corporation? How did the judge allow this?

  • Intergalactic Walrus
  • 9001

    Splendid day today at the IAS event. The police and the outside security at the gate were cool. Nice to see some familiar faces. Didn’t see Cruise, Duggan or Miss Cabbage. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9ac49d692cdb1dddb0f3c062a2342fb293a132e7eec82a514fc67791a3e48293.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/617a573529e7d04c6a02a737de5d53dda25aca7ec4609be18974977a012249f3.jpg

    • Interested2

      My hard earned money goes towards this in tax, whilst they avoid paying any tax in the uk by having their headquarters in Adelaide. Australia… Pisses me off….

    • Is that one of the nice policewomen I can see walking across the driveway? They enjoy policing Anons and SPs much more than hunt-saboteurs ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • 9001

        I think she was with the private security company

    • Well done.

    • Ella Raitch

      Awesome! Please keep us posted

    • Awesome! I like seeing protesters on the Stain Hell side of the road ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Jimmy3

    LONNNIEEEEE

    clowns cant bring that guy down

  • Vaquera

    “Great seats! Great venue! Absolutely Unbelievable Epic Event!!!!!” f5

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4f96d558bbd3732739dba19da9b54ed8f577f441baf53f7b3ef33bb26487e1a1.jpg

    • Observer

      Those people need to get out more.

    • “Great seats! Great venue!”
      Talk about damning with faint praise.
      Like when someone shows you a picture of their family, and you say, “Nice frame.”

  • flyonthewall

    i think my brain might explode, I can’t take much more of this

  • Deeanna

    Too late now in this case, but this is something to think about. What all is on your hard drive right now? Are you about to become involved in a lawsuit? Perhaps your hard disk might crash – then what would you do? We’ve all heard about backing up our hard disk, but how many actually do it?

    Perhaps it is not such a good idea to store all of our data on the hard drive of our personal computers. Zip drives are cheap and can store a lot of data nowadays. Emails programs can be set to automatically “Save to backup media and then delete”. Or to delete after 30 days. Or whatever schedule you want, it is just a matter of changing the settings.

    Or do courts write their orders so broadly that any backup media is included in the order? What if you had your backups stored but they got destroyed in a flood or some other mishap?

    I actually encountered a somewhat similar situation during the discovery process for a case I was involved in a few years ago. The opposing side wanted my emails from almost a year prior. Fortunately or unfortunately, my program deletes after 30 days automatically unless I tell it to do otherwise. (There was nothing of interest in there anyway, but FWIW opposing counsel seem to love going after old emails.)

    Interesting fact – during the first six months or so of 2015 Comcast was apparently fiddling with and changing out servers. Numerous customers who used the Comcast email program lost all of their current and stored emails and Comcast did not have the ability to restore them. You can read some of the sad stories associated with that fiasco by googling “Comcast deleted my emails”. It was not a system-wide event and it happened to some customers more than once.

    • iampissed

      Zip Drive?
      ETA Thumb Drives kids…larger capacity, easy to hide and a hammer takes them out.

    • grundoon

      If the police come to seize your files, generally they will take every bit of digital media they can find, backups and all, and all devices. If you’re worried about this, you might want to store backups off your property or on a “cloud” service. If you use a cloud service, the government can order them to turn over a copy of your data, but at least you’ll still have access to it unless they physically seize the servers.

  • iampissed

    If you want to know why disconnection needs to end.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/06/well/live/a-letter-to-the-doctors-and-nurses-who-cared-for-my-wife.html?_r=1
    ETA you folks in Scientology need to read this.

    • JaxNGold

      That article made me cry…

  • Jimmy3

    I need to apologize for an insensitive statement I made earlier. I meant to say I blame good women for not taking their fair share of the blame for the whole evil thing. I blame good women. Not all women.

    • iampissed

      It always the clowns!

      • Mockingbird
        • iampissed

          Did anyone else catch it’s a DM production and it’s called twinstv.
          Just saying!

          • Mockingbird

            Is DM David Miscavige ? Along with his twin ! WOW !

    • flyonthewall

      at least you didn’t say to “grab them by the p****y”

      • Jimmy3

        I don’t even know what that is or how to does it

      • iampissed

        Ha

        • flyonthewall

          iam knows what I’m talkin’ bout! *high five*

          • Jimmy3

            The number of stars seems anatomically incorrect and I’m just confused

            • flyonthewall

              stars shmars! J3 knows what I’m talkin’ bout but he won’t admit it *no high five*

            • Jimmy3

              Everyone hates us right now. And I was just making fun of that dumb quote.

            • flyonthewall

              why does everyone hate us? I was making a ref to the latest Trump news.

            • Jimmy3

              You’re right. Referencing trump is good shelter from hate. You’re safe.

            • flyonthewall

              it’s just such YUGE news, I couldn’t keep it in. I sorry

            • iampissed

              Yea really going to help with that woman’s vote.

          • iampissed

            Yes sir I do…high five

      • Mockingbird

        Grab them by the party ? Or pastry ?

    • Vaquera

      Mommy issues?

      • Jimmy3

        You’re embarrassing me in front of my friends

        • Vaquera

          Now, J, you know that imaginary friends don’t care if you’re embarrassed.

    • Mockingbird

      Do both feet fit in your mouth at the same time ?

  • Michelle Sterling

    I have a lot of empathy for people in this situation. I vividly remember having 5 plain clothed (armed) detectives rolling up at my house at 7.30 in the morning to arrest me (in front of my child), turn my house upside down, take my PC, my husbands PC, my daughters PC, my portable hard drive, CDs etc. You feel completely violated.

    I have never felt such fear because I had absolutely no control in the situation. They wouldn’t let me video them, make a call (they took my phone from me) or even email my work.They told me I was facing 10 years jail.

    Reading about this brings it all back.

    • Kim O’Brien

      holy shit

    • Mockingbird

      That’s terrible. I hear about Scientology hurting and terrorizing people almost every damned day.

      But some people claim that Scientology critics are equally brutal. What are they exactly referring to ?

      • Michelle Sterling

        Give me some examples and I’ll try & answer you.

        • Mockingbird

          Examples of Scientology hurting people ? Uh…I could write a couple encyclopedias on that.

          OH you might mean individuals referring to Scientology critics as equally harmful to Scientology itself ? The comments section at the blog of a certain Miscavige servant is packed with them. As are his own posts.

          • Michelle Sterling

            You’re going to have to be more specific.

            • Mockingbird

              Huh ? How many Miscavige servants have blogs !? I only know of one. One that calls himself a Scientology Warrior.

            • Michelle Sterling

              Oooh him. He makes my head hurt. His latest “you people are sooo mean” campaign would be funny if it wasn’t designed to distract and divide.

            • Mockingbird

              Is makes my head hurt cognitive dissonance over his contradictory statements ?

              He isn’t funny at all to me. He serves his master by taking the conversation off the crimes and abuses of Scientology. That is criminal in my mind.

            • Michelle Sterling

              My heads hurts because there is only so much contradiction, hypocrisy, hyperbole & general bullshit that a person can take in without getting a migraine.

            • Mockingbird

              Ha ! Can I quote that !

            • Michelle Sterling

              Sure ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Mockingbird

              By the way, WTF happened to Alanzo !? Years ago he tore Scientology a new asshole and wrote good stuff. But now !!? WTF !

            • Michelle Sterling

              Alanzo IS now Scientology’s “new asshole”. (oops will that get me banned?) (Sorry Tony)

            • Mockingbird

              Does that mean he serves the Scientology cult in your opinion ? Or something else ? I want to be specific because a lot of questions have come up.

            • Michelle Sterling

              I’m reluctant to have this conversation here. I’m already in trouble on ESMB for importing “blog war drama”. Don’t want to piss Tony off as well.

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t understand how you can be in trouble at ESMB ? I thought you had authority there. I don’t think Tony Ortega would censor you for giving your opinion on Alanzo. I can always be wrong of course. I was gullible enough to be in Scientology for twenty five years so I certainly have been completely wrong before.

            • Mockingbird

              Would you be more comfortable on Facebook or somewhere else ?

            • iampissed

              No it takes a WHOLE LOT MORE to get ya banned here

            • Mockingbird

              Thank…whatever we should thank…uh…yeah…

            • iampissed

              “whatever we should thanked” Such a wonderful thought.
              Thanks

    • Chee Chalker

      This may be a stupid question, but was this Co$ related?
      PS I am very sorry your family had to suffer through that

      • Michelle Sterling

        Yes very much CoS related.

        The CoS decided to try and frame me as an instigator and purpetrator of the DDoS attacks on their sites in 2008. I was arrested in 2010 as a direct result of the CoS giving Victoria police dodgy “evidence” of my involvement.

        Tony wrote about it here:

        http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/14/the-fair-gaming-of-esmbs-michelle-emma-sterling/

        • Sunny

          Wow. I did not know about this. So sorry Emma. Did it all finally go away? What happened in the end? (Sorry around that time I just had my first child and was having major medical problems after and I missed all of this).

            • Michelle Sterling

              Yes it did go away.

              What never goes away is the fear. Even now, 6 years later, if I get an unexpected knock at the front door I freeze and often have a panic attack. I never wrote much about the effect that day had on me, because it is still quite emotionally overwhelming.

            • Sounds very familiar, Emms, even though I didn’t live through what you did.

              I try to remind myself that perhaps that’s how certain people want us to feel.
              And switching into Zero Fucks Given (ZFG) mode. Hugs.

            • Sunny

              So sorry. I wish I could give you a big hug.

        • Chee Chalker

          Unreal. I would be ashamed to be a scientologist today.
          Embarrassed and ashamed.

          For any UTRs (under the radars) or even for you die hard OSAbots reading this…..this is how your are saving the planet?
          Harassing people?
          Pathetic
          Well Michelle, you certainly earned your epulates! Unlike those clowns with their fake medals and braids.

          COB should be saluting your beagles! (If you have beagles…)

          • Mockingbird

            Great questions. Eventually they get through to Scientologists who get extreme enough cognitive dissonance. It is a long painful road unfortunately.

        • iampissed

          Nice to have you here. We have not met, my name is pissed.
          I hope you will share more when time comes.
          Blessings

  • Mockingbird

    OT, interesting thing about Scientology members, they are quite enthusiastic about Hubbard’s words.

    Here’s a possible reason for the passion.

    “Propaganda … serves more to justify ourselves than to convince others; and the more reason we have to feel guilty, the more fervent our propaganda.โ€
    โ€• Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Mockingbird

      Just give everything everyone ever has ! Give Scientology everything and absolute power ! Remember they are not demanding too much !

    • Twats in a tent.

    • JaxNGold

      “Any and all flows welcome!”

      For f***’s sake, speak English!

      “How about a small one this week then your regular donation next week?”

      Wow, nothing says religious and honest like a “church” constantly harassing members for more and more damned money. Assholes.

    • dungeon master
  • Mockingbird

    OT, the storm in Florida reminds me of something heard a few times from Sea Org members. They were in Buffalo working on the renovations for the ideal org and very hard core Scientologists.

    They would take a hurricane near Flag as EVIDENCE that Scientology was effectively overcoming the physical universe and freeing theta from MEST. They saw the storm as irrefutable proof Scientology is true and effective knowledge.

    That is magical thinking and confirmation bias in a marriage of madness. They were certainly passionate about Scientology.

    • Sookie Sookie

      Scientologists: “We’re winning, this is proof!!!”
      Evangelicals: “It’s because of teh gayz, repent now!!!”

      Rational people everywhere: “Wow, weather again, in the same place weather is known to happen.”

      • Mockingbird

        Rational thought forbidden. No worrying about establishing a connection between cause and effect. Silly willy.

      • coonellie

        Being an evangelical I can safely say that I have no friends that are saying that or would say that. None. We are talking about it being slightly early for hurricane weather and we just hope our friends and relatives are safe.

        And, just so you now, the Bible says that Christians need to clean their own house first, not the other way around. It’s been my experience that Christians are usually a lot more screwed up than those outside the church, and usually for good reason – they feel like they need something outside of themselves to help them.

        I’ve also observed that sociopaths have found very fertile hunting grounds in the church as most people assume that a pastor/priest/minister is “safe”. Hah! Growing up under a sociopath gave me a lot of experience in seeing past those stalkers. My problem has been convincing others in the church to believe me before it’s too late (I’m more like Cassandra).

        The people in my life that have been the most Christ-like have not even been Christians. Go figure.

        • Sookie Sookie

          Thanks for reminding me not to paint with a broad brush, Coonellie. ๐Ÿ™‚ Your experience with Christ-like figures is a lot like my own.

          • coonellie

            That’s what I love about the Bunker. We all learn from each other. Wishing you a lovely Friday evening :).

            • Sookie Sookie

              I love that, too. And a lovely, peaceful evening to you!

    • Then why does Scientology hate Haiti so much?

      • Mockingbird

        Umm…I didn’t know they hated Haiti.

        • If they’ve got all that OT weather control, why let a hurricane plow right over it?

  • M from Toronto

    This lady has nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of. It is precisely the same type of tactic used by the lawyers defending the perpetrators of certain crimes to “shame the victim” and silence them, which would be funny, if it wasn’t so odious, considering what Ms. Taylor learned about her spouse. Her actions in this regard appear beyond reproach, and his prior actions are naught to to with her-however- by their implied logic, if she is tied to her spouse, why isn’t this judge tied to his? Hmmmmโ€ฆ.
    He should be removed.
    The court rulings baffle me.
    Sane people will see through this. The CO$ and their lawyers are the ones who should be, but aren’t shamed. The public is much more aware of these tactics nowadays than they used to be, IMO, this is another example to explain what this organization really is, to those who show an interest.
    (I’ll steal Beauty’s reminder to Click the Heart!)

  • Observer
    • flyonthewall

      can’t post that. J3 said everyone will hate you and not be your friend anymore

      • Observer

        Anyone who would hate me for posting it isn’t friend material, for more than one reason.

        • flyonthewall

          I really can’t believe this is all happening. I kinda had a mini-freak out after listening to it

          • Observer

            I didn’t listen. The excerpts in the story were enough.

            And to think this vile sack of crap has a shot at the presidency…

            • flyonthewall

              the audio isn’t even censored. Yeah, it’s bad.

              This might be the nail in his coffin. It has to be

            • iampissed

              It take many nails to close a coffin my friend.
              There are more coming.

            • flyonthewall

              I hope so. This fool has seriously wrecked havoc and he cannot get away with it.

            • Ella Raitch

              From a distance it certainly feels that way. Clinton is a seasoned professional and timing is everything. I do believe her campaign is biding their time.

        • Mockingbird

          Isn’t “Grab them by the p—y,โ€ Trump says. โ€œYou can do anything.” Presidential ?

          Just like David Miscavige is ecclesiastical !

          It’s selective reality ! That’s why Scientology seems like some politicians. They are both full of bullshit. Good luck getting any women with a lick of sense to vote for you.

      • Kim O’Brien

        my 14 year old daughter ..(who has no father ..raised her solo …he has never seen her ) just said that she would be afraid to be a girl in Trumps family .

        her snapchat , instagram and all the others ..are just blowing up about this and how he treats women. Watching about 125 young women under the age of 18 , get furious …is a powerful thing to watch .

        • flyonthewall

          wow, she’s really plugged in. A couple of mine have FB and email.

          That must be a really cool thing to watch. FlyLady teaches in an all girl majority african american school for disadvantage kids and if Trump is mentioned it’s guaranteed that within 10 seconds some student will shout out “Ohh he racist!”

          • Kim O’Brien

            my kid stopped wanting FB as soon as I joined up . Now her gramma is on it . Now i wanna delete my account

            • flyonthewall

              well considering Flylady is the only one w/a smart phone in our house, and it’s an ancient POS that can’t even download apps anymore bc of no memory, FB works ok for us ๐Ÿ™‚

            • iampissed

              Now that’s funny.

          • Liberated

            Smart kids!

          • OOkpik

            I knew Fly Lady was special! <3

        • flyonthewall

          sorry about her dad btw. I had to reassure my girls about Trump too, they are visibly scared of him. I actually had to reassure them that we wouldn’t be kicked out of the country bc we have Muslim names. That was a good time.

          • Kim O’Brien

            i am sorry that you had to have that conversation ….

            you have girls . wait until you have to have the ” never go to the 2nd location ” conversation . another part of you will die inside

            • flyonthewall

              ??? I don’t even know what that is! Should I ask?

            • Kim O’Brien

              if they are ever car jacked in a parking lot ..or have a knife or other weapon held to them ..when someone is trying to take them ( from a party ..or a parking lot ..)

              let him shoot you
              let him stab you

              someone will see and will get help ..you have a chance to live .

              If you get in the car ..or start to drive the car ( if he is in the other seat ) and he takes you away from where you are …you are dead . He is taking you to where he will kill you .

              let him stab you
              let him shoot you

            • flyonthewall

              ohhh ok thnx!

            • Also, tell them to struggle and make a lot of noise. You might be too much of a bad victim to bother with and if he kills you because of it, he was going to kill you after raping you anyway.

            • flyonthewall

              Thank you Nat. We did have the stranger/abductor talk. Don’t get in the car no matter what, run to a door and start banging on it, don’t stop screaming. If you get lost go to a mommy with kids first.

            • Perfect!

            • iampissed

              I was once in Prague shortly after the Russian exit.
              Two people tried to pickpocket me, I screamed my
              Fing head off……worked.
              I was going to add like a little girl but I don’t want little
              girls to think its not ok to scream

            • Frodis73

              Oh yes, Kim is right on with the 2nd locale-NEVER give them the chance for that.

            • iampissed

              As an owner of a 1990 model boy. Dam!
              Something I never had to tell him.
              Your a good person!

            • Len Zinberg

              Gavin DeBecker’s “The Gift of Fear” is recommended for all parents of daughters,
              and for all daughters 18+

            • Ella Raitch

              With boys it’s the ‘no means no means no means no’ talk – and ‘she can’t say yes if she’s wasted’

            • iampissed

              For me no ALWAYS was no. Could always be renigoitated on a 4th date.

          • People should have repudiated him when he started in on Mexicans and Muslims. They should have known he was unfit at that time.

            • flyonthewall

              Reps thought they could ride his venal vile populist wave and then tame and moderate him for general electorate. They were wrong. Now they have a Frankenstein.

            • Kim O’Brien

              a pussy grabbing Frankenstein

            • flyonthewall

              he needs to lose badly and every spineless shifty Republican who sucked up to him and refused to denounce him needs to pay

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll bet he’s gonna be a pussy about appearing in public. I heard that his appearance with Paul Ryan in Wisconsin has been canceled.

              The female senator who said that Trump should be a role model will probably be backtracking.

            • That’s an especially weird and invasive move if you really stop and think it through.

            • Mockingbird

              Is that a band name ? Oh no, just another day for Donald Trump.

            • Ella Raitch

              It’s like the Niemoller poem – First They Came
              http://hmd.org.uk/resources/poetry/first-they-came-pastor-martin-niemoller

            • Unfortunately.

            • Frodis73

              ^^^This, I was scared from day one…everybody laughed at me and said he won’t get very far, nobody will take him seriously.

            • You were right. It’s totally sick. He was threatening people from the beginning. Brown people felt that threat, that disdain, that hatred radiating off of him from DAY ONE.

            • Frodis73

              It is scary that so many feel the same way he does too. I want to hide under a rock.

            • Missionary Kid

              It was his understanding of the TV audience that ha played to that enabled him to get where he is.

            • TheMirrorThetan

              Yeah but they didn’t care because it didn’t affect them personally.
              And deep down their racist selves agreed with him.
              Plenty of knuckle draggers and idiots will STILL back him up and make excuses for him.

            • JJ

              I think many did, minus people who really are misogynistic bigots who will still support him. Cognitive dissonance, it’s the real thing. Rabid Huillary hatred kept alot of people in. But something about video footage seems to push people over the edge. I mean is anyone surprised by the facts, no, there were probably people who suspected for years about Trump’s boorish abusive behavior, but when it is on tape. It just got too real.

          • Frodis73

            I so hate that you had to have that talk…it is a total f’g shame.

            • flyonthewall

              ikr

          • iampissed

            Makes dinner time SPECIAL.

        • Missionary Kid

          My hope is that it finally sinks the Miss USA and the Miss Universe Beauty Pagents Meat markets.

          I always pooh pooh’d comments by people about the contestants sleeping their way up. Now, even if all of those ladies kept away from Drumpf, their reputation will be besmirched simply because he was always lurking around them.

      • Should the old rules of the bunker still apply now that it’s so large? I am asking sincerely.

        • iampissed

          What are the old rules…hell I don’t know the new rules?

          • iampissed

            Sorry had to…badges we don’t need no stinking badges!

    • removed due to respect for women

      sorry, folks … too much coffee

      • meerameezer (wogsy)

        That’s cool ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Liberated

      You know, everyday I say to myself “well, now that creep has gone too far,” and now after this newly disclosed hatred for women ( I mean, sexual assault for christ’s sake) I am beyond words.
      People are already defending him, Michelle Bachman has referred to Trump’s comments as “bad boy talk ” and blamed Hillary. I know she’s an idiot, but she represents the stupidity of his base.

      I think this crazy will end , but it never does. I don’t know about anyone but me, and I’m very afraid.

      • Mymy88

        ” …I am beyond words. People are already defending him, Michelle Bachman has referred to Trump’s comments as “bad boy talk ” and blamed Hillary.”

        Bachman doesn’t like women either, not even herself.

        Bachman: “God doesn’t want a woman in office. That’s why I failed.”
        http://politicot.com/bachmann-god-wanted-woman-office-chosen-hillary-no-chance/
        EDIT: (for clarity)

        • Mymy88
        • Frodis73

          OMG! This quote really got me:
          This might sound strange coming from another female politician, but I
          think America should disallow women to run for President from now on.
          Weโ€™ve already ruined enough when it comes to politics, so maybe itโ€™s
          time to cut our losses,โ€ Bachmann argued.

          Lol, what an idiot. Women hold hardly any govt positions, how the hell have we ruined enough already??

          • Mymy88

            Jeeeezy peeeeezy .When you start bringing in someone’s personal interpretation of what their God is and what their God wants or does not want them to do, almost anything goes, imo.

            • Frodis73

              Yes, they (her hubby) are a hot mess.

      • Frodis73

        I am with you…he basically admitted to being a date rapist and people are making excuses for him. It definitely gives some credibility to those rape accusations that surfaced.

    • Missionary Kid

      Trump is, indeed a real life version of Larry “Lonesome” Rhodes in A Face in the Crowd. His rise parallel’s Larry’s, except he isn’t some sly country bumpkin, but a city slicker. Both are undone by their own words, broadcast for everyone to hear.

  • ScnMonkeyNuts

    Thank you Vaquera for finding the pic of the Stain Hell tent event… thought it was in need of monkeying around with ๐Ÿ™‚ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/76408fe3f63105b9c3b43591d662cb106c6f1503a8bca31a541793ab0fa55120.jpg Shoop editโ€“sorry, wasnโ€™t happy with the proportions of the โ€˜sโ€™, the โ€˜yโ€™, or the angle of the crosspiece on the โ€˜tโ€™… sorted now!

    • dungeon master

      Monkey, you are a genius!

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Thank you, dungeon masterโ€“glad you like it ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Observer

      Perfect!

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Thank you, Observer ๐Ÿ™‚

    • J. Swift

      What time does the IAS give Judge Shreder his special Medal of Justice?

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Great question… just as soon as the DeMon of Stain Hell has decided how much bigger than the regular freedom medal, but smaller than TCโ€™s gaudy bauble itโ€™s going to be… could be some time, seeing as how his CoBishness surrounds himself with DB CICS, whose hats heโ€™s constantly having to wear to get anything done ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Paul V. Tupointeau

      Meepthorp would be pleased ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Vaquera

      Happy to have helped your creative endeavors, my monkey. xoxo

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        It was a great find, thank you ๐Ÿ™‚ xoxo

    • Juicer77

      6 people watching a video screen by a creepy photo. Looks about right!! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        … and check out the size of the Demented Midgetโ€™s podium in front of the giant IAS torch… loving the neo-Zeppelinfeld Stadium look (without the concomitant attendance levels, thankfully ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

  • coonellie

    I’ve been following/fighting COS for over 20 years now. Not much gets me down or surprises me. I’ve lost my innocence in regards to the legal system and those in authority during this time (I was raised to respect authority and trust the system). I’ve got to say that this post has me extremely depressed. I’m not sure exactly why it’s hitting me so hard, but it is. I suppose it’s because I never was treated fairly being under the iron lock of a sociopath, but for some reason I thought that those on the “outside” had a fighting chance. Just bummed beyond belief. I think I’m going to bed early (it’s just gone 5). Sorry for the mini-rant and hoping that Ms. Taylor receives justice somehow. If not through the courts, then by the hand of the Almighty (which, in my opinion, would be much, much worse).

    • dungeon master

      Do you want me to sing to you? Hmm.. so many songs.. I’ve had this ABBA ‘Knowing Me/Knowing You’ earworm the last couple of days, but that doesn’t seem appropriate. How about ‘Mock/ye-ah/ing/ye-ah/bird/ye-ah/yeah/ye-ah/Now everybody have you heard?/He’s gonna buy me a Mockingbird/and if that Mockingbird don’t sing/he’s gonna.. Did you just say ‘don’t sing?’ OK. How about I just make us some chocolate martinis and cheese dip?

    • OOkpik

      (((HUGS)))

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      coonelle, I know what you are feeling. Where is justice? How on earth can the court of appeals have allowed this?

  • iampissed
    • JaxNGold

      LOL!

  • Jon S

    Michael Peรฑa: โ€˜Scientology made me a better actorโ€™
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/06/michael-pena-war-on-everyone-scientology-interview?

  • Most of you don’t realize that Celebrity Centre was established to help people like this poor Rob Zombie guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVN6CDo02gA&list=PL6NlzYHY1dl4SNwt-5BST0U2nnKghFpT1&index=8

    • flyonthewall

      smooth. Real smooth

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      CO$ would be better off with Rob’s brother Spider One. His band Powerman 5000 had the Sci-Fi vibe… https://youtu.be/h48ozMZP70Y

    • JaxNGold

      Lol

  • aquaclara

    This is horrifying. Karla, sending you huge hugs and prayers for both great health and for peace of mind. Don’t let these f****ckers get to you. You are a hero to us all, and to so many others who have suffered from the hands of this damn cult.

    Stay strong. Good luck. And please, Bunker Legal Beagles, help figure this mess out.

  • Username

    People in positions of power are only kept in check by the media…aka…the constitutional right of free speach. The judicial system is failing at the hands of people like Shredder, but it’s because of blogs like this, their sins are aired. Nothing might come of it today, but I believe in cosmic karma, and they will get theirs’ one day, one way or another.

    While on the subject of abuse of power…Trump brags he is such a celebrity that beautiful women just allow him to grab their pussies. Did you ever stop to think f***face that the only reason they allow it is you are a person with substantially more power and what are they going to do about it? What good will ever come of it and who will believe them? Do you think they play along because you are so handsome and charming or do they fear for their careers and reputation? Trump and Cosby should share a prison cell next to Mismanage and Shredder.

    I’m getting another glass of wine. Happy Friday!

    • Frodis73

      No doubt, men like him make me sick, sick sick!!

    • Liberated

      Trump and Cosby in the same cell, I like it.

      • Mockingbird

        Trump calls him my African American.

  • Mockingbird

    Lots of interesting comments here today from a bunch of different perspectives on a variety of topics. It’s almost like we are free individuals with our own independent judgment allowed ! That’s just wacky.

    • Username

      This ASC cult thing is pretty cool!

      • Mockingbird

        I fail to see the C ! Oh say can you see ?

        • Username

          Nice word play captain! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Mockingbird

            Thanks. Just a silly pun from a silly one.

    • iampissed

      Imagine that

  • Liberated

    Bill Maher is on at 10 tonite, he will be all over this new crap from Trump.
    I can’t wait!

    • Username

      I just can’t image what is going to happen with this campaign. Even trump’s campaign offices are saying its game over. How embarrassing. Can his own party remove him from the ticket? Need to look this one up.

      • Frodis73

        I remember reading about this a bit ago…after convention maybe. IIRC, there IS some kind of procedure they can go through with. I feel if they have not done it yet, they won’t. He is right, he could shoot somebody and nobody would care.

        • Username

          I can’t image a Trump supporter would fork over any more money, time, or endorsements for his campaign which has become a bottomless black hole. He is unelectable, but I agree the GOP… The party of Abraham Lincoln, will do nothing about it. Sad.

      • Liberated

        I think they could have removed him at one time, but it’s too late now.
        I’ve thought his campaign was over a long time ago, but here we are.

        Don’t ever take anything for granted, complacency is the enemy.

      • Mockingbird

        It’s too late. Who could they run that would not lose ? Trump has a base that might accept David Duke, but won’t accept another republican.

    • Mockingbird

      Has Mister Trump done or said anything that is controversial or shows poor judgment ? ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

      • Liberated

        Oh, pleeze!

        • Mockingbird

          Is that a yes ?

          • Liberated

            That’s a hell yes!

      • Frodis73

        According to EO, she just doesn’t see him as a liar! LOL. I am sorry, but some people are blind.

        • Liberated

          Oh no, I was just thinking how that is one person (EO) I’d rather not hear from this evening.
          I don’t think I can bear anyone even attempting to justify for that orange freak.

          • Frodis73

            Lol, I would be curious though…I just heard somebody on another board say to “keep in mind he was younger when that video was made”. I have no words for that one.

        • Ella Raitch

          There are those who still think LRH is a war hero and the merchants of chaos are just out to destroy mankind’s saviour!

          • Frodis73

            Good point.

          • Mockingbird

            The twenty thousand Scientologists and maybe a couple thousand indies.

        • Mockingbird

          EO doesn’t see Trump as a liar ? There are HUNDREDS of videos of him saying something, then denying it VERBATIM when asked. Sometimes the next day ? If that isn’t lying then nothing is. (I am paraphrasing Abraham Lincoln when he said if slavery isn’t evil then nothing is)

          • Frodis73

            Oh yeah, I sent her a couple links of his many lies…it does not matter. He is a business wiz (HA!) that will be tough on immigration (those damn Muslims!) and that is all that matters to some people.

            • dungeon master

              I wonder if, in Muslim countries, they say – those damn middle, aged white guys raised by Christian mothers – the USA is a country full of serial killers! Christianity breeds terrorist – see how they bomb/kill their own people? See how they blame the killings on the victims! On immigration and Trump – Take down the Statue of Liberty! No more ‘Give me your tired/your poor/your huddled masses yearning to breathe free/the retched refuse of your teaming shore/send these the homeless, tempest tossed to me/I lift my lamp beside the golden door.’ What kind of BS is that? We don’t want you DB J&Ders.. oops. Mixing up my rants. sorry. Oh, and we’ll make France pay for it!

            • Mockingbird

              I think they are not looking at the same information I am.

      • Bob Crouch

        Without a doubt, he has. Then again, no more so than the other leading contender!

        • Mockingbird

          I think a side by side extensive critical analysis of them both will be useful.

        • Mockingbird

          By the way changing the topic to criticism of Hillary Clinton can be seen as the Scientology approach of attack the attacker.

          • Bob Crouch

            I’m not changing the topic. I am staying with your topic of controversy and poor judgment among presidential candidates. And there’s no way to do your topic justice without bringing up Hillary who has proven herself extremely scandal-prone on that account.

            That’s not an attack. It’s simply a refusal to be deceived by a distraction so simple that even young children practice it fairly commonly.

            • Mockingbird

              No. If a person describes one person and a claim that they have done something that is one claim to examine.

              It’s poor reason to change it.

              And frankly if you want to say compare them with extensive critical analysis then on one side is unproven accusations about Hillary Clinton and some actual bad decisions.

              For Trump there are hundreds of lies easily proven by his verbatim denials and his hundreds of narcissistic and sociopathic remarks and acts. He has so much evidence of legitimate personality disorders that I don’t see any way he is saner or safer than Hubbard or any other cult leader.

            • Bob Crouch

              No, I get it: you “don’t see it” that there’s a difference between Trump and Hubbard. Naturally, that could also be chalked up to limitations in your reasoning abilities or your grasp of the facts (of course, I don’t know about the latter as you’re not actually providing any facts). Just saying, there are other hypotheses to consider here than Trump = Hubbard, an argument trying to make up for its lack of persuasiveness by its utter simplemindedness.

            • Mockingbird

              Persuasion doesn’t equal truth. Using ad hominem in me is irrelevant.

            • Bob Crouch

              Read the post again. There is NO ad-hominem attack. I simply made the point that “someone not seeing something” doesn’t mean it’s not there as the person doing the “seeing” (or not) needs to be taken into account as well. For example, there are plenty of people who do not see anything criminally wrong with Miscavige. They will say that he–just like Hillary–has actually never been convicted of a crime.

              So when someone arrives at an unsubstantiated conclusion, there is a very real possibility that a problem in their reasoning process is being evidenced. As a reader of that opinion, I have no choice but to consider that possibility unless I want to be swept along by just about any crank with a strongly expressed opinion (and NO, I am NOT putting you into that category; just making a general statement).

              Anyhow, “persuasion doesn’t equal truth.” My point exactly!

            • Mockingbird

              Saying I have limitations in my reasoning abilities or my grasp of the facts is ad hominem. You are insulting me. That is ad hominem.

            • Bob Crouch

              We all have such limitations. And the more faithfully we imbibe the overwhelmingly biased tripe offered up by the media in this pre-election season, the worse those get. Just a fact. Nothing personal.

            • Bob Crouch

              Well, since it’s–in your opinion–a “poor reason to change it,” I’m just glad that I did NOT change the topic. In a presidential election, pity the fool who gets distracted by one candidate’s shortcomings to the point of being deluded about the other contender’s. The latter one will rob them blind–in fact, a longstanding Clinton trait!

            • Mockingbird

              You can vote however you like.

            • Mockingbird

              Dude, vote for whoever you want. I am tired of arguing with Trump supporters.

            • Bob Crouch

              Dude, I will. Having said that, I never claimed to be a Trump supporter any more than I claimed you were a Hillary supporter. So let’s keep that straight.

              In fact, my biggest beef is with the media. They’re simply not doing their job as they won’t find anything too petty to hurl at Trump yet have shown themselves to be complete lap dogs with respect to quite possibly the most corrupt candidate to ever seek this office.

            • Mockingbird

              Ever ? We have had slave owners as president. We have had men that craved genocide of Native Americans and keeping women as chattel.

              You might want to drop the ever claim.

            • Bob Crouch

              The “claim” was “quite possibly,” and I would be happy to amend it to presidencies in comparable cultural/political times. Nevertheless, the stench of utter corruption has been following the Clintons for a long time and is currently nauseating quite a few folks who would otherwise happily vote for anything with a “D” next to it.

            • Mockingbird

              The media are imperfect and biased. Most people you see on major media are all millionaires. They are living in a different world and don’t think they will personally lose no matter who is president. I have looked at salaries and net worth of many of them. They often have between six and a hundred million dollars in net worth. That is enough to not care if the minimum wage is raised ever.

              They work for giant corporations and self censor to stay employed. I don’t agree with Chomsky and his propaganda model but several high profile reporters and hosts have been fired when they go outside the acceptable parameters their employers set.

              I have seen enough direct evidence of some things to conclude they are facts. But not everything is that simple.

            • Bob Crouch

              No disagreement from me about the statements you make about the media in general.

              Then again, there is bias due to “imperfection.” And there is deliberate, massive and organized bias, also known as manipulation or deliberate deceit.

              I read various news portals that aggregate news (or “news”) from many different sources. And the media group think is still readily apparent. The bias is extreme and it generally runs into just one direction. The Trump bashers are out in force, clutching on to the most ridiculous sources of manufactured controversy while Hillary generally gets a pass. So the mistaken impression is given that we are dealing with an obvious choice between a demon and a maybe slightly flawed saint tirelessly working for the public good (and a bigger bite out of our paychecks). This kind of mendacity is not something I am willing to be quiet about–whether it’s coming from a cult or a media cabal and those who listen to it without any inclination or ability to form an independent thought of their own.

        • Mockingbird

          Bob Crouch, whatever imperfections Hillary Clinton has, and I complained about them for many months strongly, she’s shown better judgment in several areas than Donald Trump. He resembles the cult leader that is near collapse into florid schizophrenia which Robert Jay Lifton and Daniel Shaw have described.

          The near non stop pathological lying and inability to face consequences that Trump displays is disturbing especially with the extensive amount of evidence that he is extremely narcissistic and sociopathic. He fits descriptions of a vulnerable narcissist and malignant narcissist as well.

          That is not equal to the evidence against Hillary Clinton by a tremendous measure. She isn’t my first choice for president, or second, or third but it’s her or him. He has proven to me he is as dangerous as Hubbard himself.

          • Bob Crouch

            Your “case” against Trump boils down to little of a factual nature but a lot of media induced hysteria, generalities and armchair psychology. See, if I call someone an asshole, people will immediately say I am rude, a name caller, or both. Call someone narcissistic (as though that were a stretch with ANY politician), and you expect name calling to actually rise to the level of a legitimate argument that proving a point?

            And somehow–particularly in this forum–you think just dropping his name along Hubbard’s makes a point when it’s the Clintons who have at least at some point been in the cult’s pocket? Speaking of judgement and character…

            Following your own logic, wouldn’t it be cultic behavior to act as though the multitude of Clinton scandals “never happened” and should be swept under the rug?

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t casually call anyone a narcissist and have put a considerable effort into understanding that condition. It’s a serious concern and I have my opinion on it.

            • Bob Crouch

              You don’t do it casually, but you (someone who presumably has no qualifications in any of the relevant fields–but correct me if I’m wrong) will apply this “diagnosis” to someone you don’t even know; let alone know in such detail as would be required for a responsible diagnosis. Is that your “considerable effort?”

              Again, show me one politician (certainly in the big leagues) to whom the narcissism tag could NOT be applied.

            • Mockingbird

              I have perhaps higher standards than you assume. And you are using the genetic fallacy to discredit my claims. Claims should be examined, not discredited.

              I don’t know over ninety nine percent of politicians well enough to call them narcissistic. And to just call them all narcissistic is a hasty generalization and a logical fallacy in itself.

            • Bob Crouch

              I didn’t say anything about your “standards.” I simply assumed that yours was an amateur diagnosis. And you haven’t corrected me on that; so that assumption appears to be correct. But regardless, long-distance diagnoses of persons you have never met would do discredit even to a qualified professional making them.

              Neither one of us knows 99% of politicians. That’s why I said, “name me ONE.” So the fallacy was NOT in what I wrote but what you claimed it to state. Since you seem so fond of seeking the authority of fallacies, that would be a strawman for ya.

  • Hamtaro

    The most off topic comment I will ever post, so I structured it as a prayer, because my grandpa told me there are no atheists in a foxhole and all of America is in a foxhole right now:

    Dear God,

    Thank your for bringing the 2005 Access Hollywood video tape with Donald Trump and Billy Bush to the attention of the mainstream media today. When he spoke that unforgettable sentence (“when you’re a star…you can do anything…grab her by the pussy”) I felt my heart lift and I had a newfound hope for the future of America, the country of my birth, the country of my child’s birth and the country that I love. Donald Trump is a rapist, if not in fact, then surely, as former President Carter might have said “he’s committed rape, many times, in his heart.” If this doesn’t stop him from becoming President, then we deserve him and you are completely off the hook, responsibility wise.

    your friend,
    Hamtaro

    • flyonthewall

      also thank you WashingtonPost for leaking it BEFORE the debate on Sunday. NBC had it originally and they weren’t going to release until afterward. Long Live the Fourth Estate!

      eta – also, WaPo released the UNCENSORED version. This was a significant and very brave editorial decision on their part

      • Ella Raitch

        There must be so much more of this sort of material out there

        • Frodis73

          Good point, he has been in the public eye for a very long time…there are probably vaults full of stuff like this. It all needs to be released now.

          • flyonthewall

            I guarantee you the next thing to happen is women will be coming forward with how Trump assaulted and harassed them. It’s already being reported that Trump tried to have Nancy O’Dell (the married one he said he tried to fuck) fired from Miss Universe bc she refused his advances.

            http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/07/donald-trump-tried-to-fire-nancy-o-dell-after-she-rejected-his-sexual-advances.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

            • Frodis73

              I am shocked they haven’t already tbh. He still is powerful, so they could be scared. There is that rape accusation from a 14 yr old though.

            • MadisonAgain

              Yeah, why is no one talking about that? It’s been buried.

            • flyonthewall

              I thought that after posting this. I would still be very worried about coming out it if I was a woman and Trump did that to me.

              I have to look up the 14yr old, that doesn’t ring a bell. It just gets better and better doesn’t it?

            • Frodis73

              Oh yeah, I read about it a couple months ago…the timing is odd, but then again her not saying anything until he ran for prez rings true too. Plus, she has a witness, though they could be in it together. I guess the first court thing is in Dec. I am shocked it is not getting more attention in the media…esp after fridays vid. I hate to say it, but his pattern of behavior just makes it more likely to be true…he is fricking creepy…if I had a daughter I wouldn’t want her in the same room with the guy.

        • dungeon master

          Every day the headline reads Trumps Next WTF Moment, or something like that. Some days I don’t even read it. I bet there are two different Donald Did What?? stories out there for every day between now and the election, and there’ll still be the same Hillary – Bengazi, emails, conspiracy theories from the 70s, and oh, yeah, her husband cheated on her. The 24 hour news cycle has to come up with something to print.. It’s getting so repetitive, it’s boring. I’d much rather be reading of some new species of sea monster left over from dinosaur days swimming down where there’s no light and unimaginable water pressure (that just happened to get caught in a fisherman’s net, or was caught on camera by a research vessel – lol).

      • iampissed

        Yea and his camp is saying they have had it all along and just
        disclosed it NOW. Dam yea what did ya think.

        • kemist

          But… but… it is wrong because it makes him look bad.

          Why are you people so meeeeaaan….

          *Stamps on ground and pouts*

          • iampissed

            Yes that’s the way it works.

      • Bob Crouch

        I’m all for this. At the same time, I’d like to see the Fourth Estate show the same zeal in exposing both leading contenders. Clearly, such is NOT the case!

      • MadisonAgain

        But, WaPo just said “lewd conversation.”. Trump actually admitted to sexually assaulting women.

        • Mockingbird

          That’s pretty lewd.

          • MadisonAgain

            It’s a crime. “Lewd” is just an adjective and kind of softens how bad it really is.

            • Mockingbird

              I think it is lewd and criminal ! A two fer from the republican candidate. He does double duty.

        • flyonthewall

          I agree that the headline was pretty soft considering the content, that struck me too. They might of been concerned about legal action from Trump if they just came out and said “TRUMP BRAGS ABOUT SEXUALLY ASSAULTING WOMEN”.

          I hope that the conversation about it is within that context though and not just oh this is locker room talk.

      • Frodis73

        I just read the funniest, but very lame, comment about Trump and somebody trying to justify his comments. OMFG.
        Bill Clinton is the CONFIRMED fornicator who denied it (Trump admitted what
        he said and if you pay attention…….he was a whole lot younger in
        that video).

        A whole lot younger?? That talk is inexcusable for a 10 year old ffs. This person is OFF the rails.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Thanks indeed to the Post ! How could anyone in the media think they could sit on a story like that!? News is news and you don’t get to decide when to run a huge story like that, unless there’s some sort of national security angle to be concerned about.

        • JJ

          Unless you own the paper.

    • Remember: If you fight Trump, you become Trump.

      No, I don’t understand it either, but apparently it’s a proven scientific law that you become what you fight. There are many real life examples, like Anakin Skywalker fighting evil then becoming evil. (I don’t know why Darth Sidious didn’t become a Jedi then, but there must be some deep reason.)

      Or perhaps it’s a thought-stopping mantra endlessly chanted by people who have never read Friedrich Nietzsche or critically analyzed his writing?

      Still, why take the risk?

      • dungeon master

        Um, I assume you are using proven scientific law in the same way LRH used scientific research studies.. Besides, there was controversy among the Jedi masters over training Anakin because he was.. was it his training hadn’t started young enough? because of questionable results? I haven’t watched it since it came out.. And I’m reasonably certain that it would be impossible for me to become a Trump level asshole in what life is left to me. Just saying..

    • meerameezer (wogsy)

      Amen-Ra

  • Liberated

    If anyone is interested, Van Morrison is on Jimmy Fallon tonite……….whoa!!!!!!!

    • Glen

      Thanks for the heads up.

  • Jimmy3

    I’d like to apologize because my words were taken out of context, and they sounded very lewd and offensive. What I meant was:

    Grab her (pick her up in a nice vehicle and take her to an animal rescue shelter)
    Buy the pussy (purchase a cat for her, because women like cats)

    I hope this clears everything up and you will forget all about it.

    • Oooohhhh. Well that clears that up XD

      • Jimmy3

        You know I’m a big star, right? Would you like a kitten?

        • Sorry, I’m a dog lover.

          • Jimmy3

            When you’re a big star, you can do anything. You can make them love your schnauzer.

            • Jimmy3

              Oh god, that sounds bad too. What I meant was if you’re a big star they will love your dog even if the breed isn’t one they typically prefer.

            • XD

            • Mockingbird

              Unless you are a republican presidential nominee your words are political suicide.

    • Mockingbird

      That is as believable as a Hubbard lecture or Trump speech.

      • Jimmy3

        You are as believable as a Humpard lecture speech.

        • Mockingbird

          You know my answer by now.

          • Jimmy3

            It is a definite “yes.” You are very agreeable.

            • Mockingbird

              I try so hard to be.

    • Don’t forget pans and combs. Chicks really dig pans and combs

  • Mockingbird

    As Trump has evidence of narcissistic and possibly sociopathic tendencies add up I am curious about his many Scientology and ex Scientologist supporters. The exes are sure they won’t be fooled again…okay…

    • Frodis73

      I’d love to know how many of the folks “over there” and at milestone ii are fans of his.

      • Mockingbird

        Which over there are you referring to ? Marty land ? ESMB ? Some indie site ? He has fanatical zealots supporting him at each of those places.

        • Ann B Watson

          Yes,yes he does.๐Ÿ’–

    • meerameezer (wogsy)

      One of my coworkers is a Trump supporter. Listening to him talk is like listening to nails on a chalkboard.

      • Mymy88

        Sorry SP Wogsy, I don’t have much pity for you, I have three family members that support him. Oh wait… on second thought I do have pity for you because I don’t work or live with these family members!

        • meerameezer (wogsy)

          Having to listen to an old fart think out loud without being able to call him names is the hardest part.

          • Mymy88

            Sounds like ear torture to me.

      • Mockingbird

        I can relate. In my immediate surroundings is a HUGE pro Trump group that thinks only an idiot would ever not support Trump.

        • meerameezer (wogsy)

          Good grief. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

          • Mockingbird

            I feel like Charlie Brown.

      • Ann B Watson

        Good to meet you.I like your style.๐Ÿ’–

        • meerameezer (wogsy)

          Nice to meet you, too! ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜

  • Mockingbird

    Can I say I wrote about Trump and Hubbard being cut from the same rag as soon as Donald Trump started his presidential campaign ? They have the same ethical level. I am convinced more and more and more as time goes on.

    • Captain MustSavage

      Both malignant narcissists

      • Mockingbird

        Winner winner, chicken dinner.

      • Ann B Watson

        โค๏ธโค๏ธ

  • JJ

    Gotta wonder about fall out. Have a relative who said: “Hillary Clinton can’t win, NO woman in America will be safe!!!” ie. Bill in the White House again. Can she still use that particular argument?

  • JJ

    When is an apology not an apology? When it ends with a justification.

    • when it ends with a justification, it’s called an explanation. The justifications that we learned from LRH is canceled long time ago!

  • JJ

    Here’s one: Try to imagine a black male candidate, of any party, in any race, having said, or done any of the things Donald Trump has said, done, denied, explained away, or made back handed apologies for. No, for reals try and imagine it.

    • Sookie Sookie

      It’s like Kafka and The Twilight Zone had a baby and named it ‘2016.’

  • meerameezer (wogsy)

    Sigh….what a brain drain. Nag Champa incense and tea makes it all better.

    • JJ

      Love Nag Champa. lit or unlit.

    • JaxNGold

      Absolutely love Nag Champa, too! It’s like soul, peace and calm…all in one.

  • Observer

    Clown warning! โš ๏ธ

    Just regularly creepy clowns though, not deliberately creepy clowns.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cd8672e9ce1c3c683afb6023560aed800939c747ae89aca266e03462873e0754.jpg

    • JJ

      Our local news program has said they WILL NOT be discussing anymore evil,devil clown stuff till something actually happens.

    • UhLasare

      Appreciate the warning

    • Jimmy3

      Cop cars are driving a little slower around here at night…

      I’m waiting for them to stop to see like two dozen clowns jump out of the back

    • coonellie

      I never minded clowns, but these creepy clowns are something else. Sorry, but to me they’re demonic….sort of like Haloween now, as a posed to Hallowen 40 years ago.

  • Dave Reams

    Trump’s diary hacked?

    “Your own pleasure is not dependent on the
    woman’s. You are interested only in your own sexual pleasure. If she
    gets any that is all right but not vital. Many women are not capable
    of pleasure in sex and anything adverse they say or do has no effect
    whatever upon your pleasure. Their bodies thrill you. If they repel
    you, it merely means they themselves are too frigid or prudish to be
    bothered with. They are unimportant in bed except as they thrill you.
    Your sexual power is magnificent and they know it. If they are afraid
    of it, that is their loss. You are not affected by it.

    You have no fear if they conceive. What if they do? You do not care.
    Pour it into them and let fate decide.

    The slipperier they are the more you enjoy it because it means their
    mucous is running madly with pleasure.

    You are a master. You are as sensitive and sexy
    as Pan. Lord help women when you begin to fondle them. You are master
    of their bodies, master of their souls as you may consciously wish.”

    – LRH
    http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2000-03-11.html

  • littlefish

    Totally OT but I was playing my fave phone game tonight and noticed this. Simpsons themed game with snark scio reference. Wonder how Nancy Cartwright would feel. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c763046e2b4d09a0cee317516ad449dac9201ba48d2ab2c4d644434d6d06975d.jpg

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    Astounding report today!

  • Graham

    test