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Who are the clergy Scientology convinces to attend its ‘interfaith’ farces?

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Rod Keller keeps an eye on Scientology social media for us, and this week he spotted something he decided to dive into in more depth. Take it away, Rod…

On August 3rd and August 10th, Scientology held interfaith conferences at the Los Angeles Ideal Org under the guise of Youth For Human Rights, a “social betterment” front group similar to The Way to Happiness Foundation and the Foundation for a Drug-Free World. The group was founded in 2001 by Dr. Mary Shuttleworth, a South African Scientologist. For events without any youth participation, the group goes by the name United for Human Rights.

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As with all Scientology activities that deal with non-Scientologists, Youth for Human Rights is directed by the Office of Special Affairs. OSA is known as the secret police of Scientology for its work to investigate, attack, and discredit former members and critics, often with the use of private investigators. But OSA is charged with all of Scientology’s public relations work as well, and interfaith activities are important to fulfill L. Ron Hubbard’s design to “safepoint” Scientology – to develop a network of non-Scientologist allies who are Opinion Leaders in the community and who could be called upon for assistance when Scientology comes under attack. They are considered “celebrities” in the same category as Tom Cruise and John Travolta, and they count towards OSA’s stat, “celebrity bodies in shop.”

The irony is that Scientology actually has no respect for other religions at all, even as it puts on events like this. Just yesterday, former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder at his blog spelled out what Scientologists learn as they get more deeply into the church, that they have to give up any involvement with other “religions”:

As one advances in Scientology and is indoctrinated into “Keeping Scientology Working” and then more advanced Scientology writings about Jesus Christ being an implant, you discover that every other religion is not compatible with Scientology, and to be a Scientologist you cannot practice any other religion, or even yoga….Anything not Scientology…is categorized by the derogatory term “Other Practices,” and…at the higher levels is specifically forbidden.

It’s not very difficult to learn, with a few Internet searches, that this is the case with Scientology, so who are these representatives of other faiths who willingly take part in Scientology interfaith events?

I requested interviews with the non-Scientologist speakers at these events to ask them how they became involved, and if they were aware of Scientology’s reputation as a dangerous cult.

 
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I briefly spoke with Archdeacon Manuk Chulyan of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Q: How did you become involved in the inter-faith event at the Church of Scientology?

A: This is the third time I have attended, and the second time I have been a speaker.

Q: What would you say were the predominant themes of the event?

A: Do I have to answer these questions? This is in the past, it’s over. Do I have to answer these questions?

No, Archdeacon, you don’t.

 
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I also spoke with Randy Dobbs, a member of the Regional Baha’i Council of the State of California and secretary of the Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’i of Los Angeles.

Q: How did you get involved with the Church of Scientology event?

A: I do a lot of interfaith work, and representatives of the Church have been involved in some of the same organizations over the years, so I have really gotten to know them through those means – through interfaith work.

Q: There are some countries where there is a lot of persecution of Baha’i.

A: The faith started in the Muslim majority country of Persia, which is now Iran. The government is intolerant of other religions, even Sunni Muslims have a hard time in that country.

Q: Do you see any parallels with Scientology in that regard?

A: No, in what way?

Q: Scientology recently had offices raided by the authorities in Moscow.

A: Oh, yes, the difficulties they have in different countries around world might be similar, yes. The Church of Scientology has appeared to me to be very inclusive, and accepting of those from different backgrounds.

Q: I’m sure you’re aware there is some controversy about Scientology as well.

A: I think there’s a documentary film I haven’t seen.

Q: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief.

A: Yes, I haven’t seen it or read any of the books that are out either. You know this country has been filled with a lot religious difficulty from the very first; it was started by people who were fleeing religious persecution. You would think that would have created a society that was uber-tolerant, but it’s actually been an evolutionary course. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights responded to the persecution of Baptist ministers in Virginia. The division of church and state has been a kind of framework in which the country has found its way towards tolerance. And I say towards because I think we still have a long way to go. I mean look at the difficulty Muslims have in this country, or Sikhs, who are not Muslim, but look like they are because they wear a turban. It’s a wonderful country, a great country, but we have a long way to go.

Q: Some people have called Scientology a cult, do you think it fits that definition?

A: I don’t know what they mean by a cult. I think to ascribe another group as being a cult or cultish – it maybe comes from a position of fear, and maybe they don’t understand what it is. There have been many groups in this country that have had difficulties – Christian groups. So it speaks to the ideal of tolerance and open-mindedness that so many groups can exist in this country, and even thrive.

Q: Would you consider participating in another of these events if Scientology invited you?

A: I’m always open to taking part in human rights events. We do a lot of human rights work, and inter-faith work and we work with others towards understanding.

 
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I spoke with Rabbi Mark H. Sobel of Temple Beth Emet in Burbank, California.

Q: Can I ask a personal question? Are you paid by the Church of Scientology?

A: No.

Q: I assume then you have heard of the controversial nature of Scientology.

A: Yes, very much.

Q: How did you come to be involved in the event?

A: They called me. They said they are doing this interfaith thing on social justice and the rights of the individual, are you interested in talking about the roots of Judaism and Judaism’s attitude towards human rights? And I said sure, and I called the fellow back, and he said it’s being hosted at the Church of Scientology. At first I didn’t think anything of it, then people asked “you’re going to the Church of Scientology?” and I said “No, they’re just hosting, and it’s by an international youth group for human rights,” and to this date I’m still not sure if that’s not an adjunct of Scientology or not. We were asked to talk about our faith-based systems, and how they relate to the rights of people, and that’s what it was about. The literature of Scientology was there, and they did a wonderful multi-media presentation on the universal rights of man, and that was how the program began. The only mention of Scientology was that it believes in an ultimate power, not necessarily God, they absorb or use all faith systems in its core – in its beliefs. I am certainly sure that there were a lot of people from the Church of Scientology who were there in the audience. We were welcome to bring as many people as we wanted. It was short notice, so I didn’t bring anybody, but I’m sure there were people from other churches who were there who were brought by the other people who were speaking. It was just “tell us about your religion, tell us why it’s special or unique.” I’ve gotten some good feedback from people who were there, people had lots of questions.

Q: Did they mention that the Baptist Minister – Bishop [Franklin Harris] – is also a Scientologist?

A: No.

Q: He is. He has participated in many events for them.

A: The Armenian minister – they knew well. That’s interesting about the Baptist. Scientology didn’t come up at all, it was just Jesus this and Jesus that, everything I would expect from a preacher. The other fellow from the Church of Latter Day Saints is on the staff of USC.

Q: Have you seen the film Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief?

A: No, I haven’t as a matter of fact.

Q: What have you heard about Scientology that may be controversial?

A: Well, that it’s a cult. I have friends who are Israeli who became Scientologists years ago, who tried to explain to me about the hierarchy of different things, but to tell you the truth I said “OK, it’s your path, let me … I’m going home.” And that was about it. I found them to be friendly, nice, no one questioned my beliefs at all. I mean there were questions for all of us, our beliefs about war and peace, how we feel about paths in other religions.

Q: Would you attend another event if they invited you?

A: Sure, well the one thing I’m not crazy about, if you’re going to have a Scientology event, then call everybody a Scientologist and say come or don’t come. You have this different group that is sponsoring, and it’s hosted by them, but in reality they’re an adjunct does make me a little bit nervous. I want to see what they have to say. With the reputation that Scientology seems to have, my congregation was teasing me about “don’t let them convert you” and I said “No, I might need to convert them,” and we all laughed. And I said “you’re kidding” and they said “well, be careful.” And the worst that’s happened is that people said “You gave a lecture at Scientology?” “No, I gave a lecture for this group, that was hosted by Scientology,” because that’s what they told me. If it turns out I got taken advantage of, well to tell you the truth, we are commanded in the Book of Isaiah, and I actually used this in the speech, to be LaGoyim, which has a bad connotation in Yiddish, but in Hebrew it means “light unto the nations.” If somebody gives you an opportunity to preach about Judaism, how can I say no? If my words get taken out of context, and believe me this isn’t aimed at you, it won’t be the first member of the Fourth Estate that took my words out of context. So if my words come out in the Scientology bulletin … and they asked me some stuff, I have a woman who wants me to read her stuff on the true origins of the Holocaust. I can’t wait. Wendy something.

Q: I can tell you what the true roots of the Holocaust are according to Scientology: Psychiatrists. Do you know the Psychiatry: Industry of Death Museum in Hollywood? It’s a Scientology museum devoted to the horrors of Psychiatry.

A: No, I haven’t seen it. Well, it’s interesting, do you know what Psychiatry was first called by the people of Vienna? “Jew Science.” That’s why Freud invited Jung to his inner circle, because all the other guys were Jewish and they were getting such bad flack. Jung is obviously qualified – he’s brilliant – but Freud invited Jung to join them because then they could say “No, it’s not all Jews. Here he is – the non-Jew Carl Jung.”

 
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Imam Mohammed Zafarullah is the leader of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in the Southeastern U.S. He did not return my calls.

 
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Shahrooz Ash is part of the World Zoroastrian Council, The Zarathustrian Assembly and is the editor of the Zoroastrian Journal. He did not return my calls.

 
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Bishop Larry L. Eastland is the Vice-Chairman, Southern California Public Affairs Council for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He did not return my calls.

 
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Bishop Franklin Harris is Pastor of Laurel St. Missionary Baptist / Victory in Christ Ministries Church in Los Angeles, and is also an active Scientologist. He has attended numerous events, is active at the Inglewood Ideal Org, and is a member of the International Association of Scientologists, for which he hosts fundraising events. He did not return my calls.

Scientology promoted a third event on August 17th featuring speakers from Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Falun Gong, but their names were not released.

 
— Rod Keller

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on August 21, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Useful idiots.

    • PickAnotherID

      More like people trying to make a difference scammed by YFHR/$cientology.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        THIS^^^^! Thank you!

      • The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      “well i heard about some controversy” (never thought to look into those controversies BEFORE you agree to speak!) “and the event wasn’t held by scientology just sponsored by it” (semantics, semantics!) and “hey, (paraphrasing here) if a something controversial organization wants me to speak on my religion, no matter what organization, where it’s at, whose “sponsoring” it, COUNT ME IN!.. REALLY!… because atttending and speaking at such a event with JUST HOW MANY IN ATTENDANCE?!! is THAT important or would mean ANYTHING to ‘spreading the word” on your religion? REALLY?! COME ON! how many were in attendance? 10? call them clueless or just that pathetic i don’t know.. what i do think, is that some ARE/WERE that pathetic, and or shady and coin was given…

      • ExCult.Jan

        Those who proselytize rarely turn down a platform to do so.

  • 0tessa

    Hypocrites. All of them.

    • Rod Keller

      I’ll have to disagree with you. It’s more complicated than I thought at first.

      • OOkpik

        Might you be interested in expanding on that?

        • Rod Keller

          I think in particular Rabbi Sobel is very sincere, and his reasons for participating are admirable. I wish I had the opportunity to speak with more of them.

          • OOkpik

            Yes, that would be interesting. Many of the people speaking at these events may well be acting in good faith (pardon the pun), but Scientology certainly is not. It’s sad, really.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              That was my impression of some, also! And it does make sense (esp if it was misrepresented as to who the “true host” of this even actually was) that these gentlemen are actually trying to work in outreach events to find common ground among other religions and therefore areas where we all can learn from eachother. So it’s sad that, per usual, Scientology has taken that desire to reach out and learn about one another then twisted it to their own back-handed purposes!

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              You described my thinking very well. These guys (except for the clam) are members of minority religions that really want to increase interfaith understanding. I am sorry their good intentions were hijacked by an evil cult.

            • ExCult.Jan

              It’s not that simple. The Baha’i faith actively practices shunning of “Covenant Breakers”.

            • Susan B.

              I remember reading about that, thx for reminder.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Thank you! Your last sentence says it perfectly! Me too!

            • Susan B.

              Makes my blood boil that some of these men were duped. $ciontology calls itself a religion yet people have DIED because because of it. Very sad that the sincere, honest, mentally and emotionally healthy ones that presented are men who truly spend their lives doing good and helping people. They are human though, not perfect, and I have to call them out on not doing enough homework. Hmmm. Probably there are by now used copies Tony’s book and other recent expose books to mail to the presenters that are not in $cios. If I had the dough I would buy them brand new books (esp cuz that supports the authors)

          • Robert Hanna Moore

            I have some admiration for Rabbinic scholarship, courtesy of Richard Feynman.
            An interesting excerpt from “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman” (at Reddit, with some good comments).

            https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/ev3gy/excerpt_from_richard_feynman_is_electricity_fire/

          • Jenyfurrrrr

            Rabbi Sobel seemed extremely genuine and I appreciated his frank, open answers to your questions. I also thought his reasoning for being there was great. He seems like someone who has a great attitude and tries to be open and accepting of others, but not without being discerning. Now that you’ve shared with him about this group being a front for CO$, I’ll bet he’ll do some research of his own, which is fantastic! Thank you for this – your questions and approach was great as I think most to whom you spoke will hopefully walk away with some questions and perhaps check out Going Clear, now!

            • ExCult.Jan

              What did you find discerning in his replies?

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              That he was actually open to what Rod shared and also questioning that the organization may have been a front for CO$ (whereas other didn’t want to hear it or discuss) showed me that he wasn’t going in blind or just believing what he wanted. To me, he didn’t come across as naive or a shill, more that regardless of who was hosting he was going to take the opportunity to open dialogue and share his faith even if the hosts weren’t as up front or have a different agenda.

          • ExCult.Jan

            Sincerity is a low bar to meet.
            The hosts of the event are sincere in their beliefs, too.

      • Robert Hanna Moore

        If not hypocrisy, is it ignorance? Does no one bother to vet the organizations they lend their reputations to?

        • Rod Keller

          I agree, religious leaders should be better informed. I don’t think that anybody who looks at criticism of Scientology for very long can continue to think it’s a product of fear and misunderstanding. The more you know, the more you tend to oppose Scientology.

          • Robert Hanna Moore

            Indeed, and thanks for a thought provoking piece.

          • chukicita

            I think that a lot of folks who adhere to non-dominant culture religions and who work for peace tend to understand what it’s like to be (actually) persecuted. Scientology presents itself as a persecuted belief system, and tries to manufacture a common ground.

            But people who work daily toward peace tend to be trusting, the same way that local governments (I’m looking at you, Clearwater) treat Scientology, Inc. as if it were a legitimate organization and *expect it to behave as such* – the safepointing may not be obvious (long cons rarely are), but I wonder how many times they’re going to use the names of those they invited to speak to bolster their legitimacy, without permission.

            f5

          • ExCult.Jan

            But then they might have to look at criticism of their own group.

          • Do you think that there might also be an element of religious professionals, specialising in making contact with other faiths, being so considerate and tolerant and careful that they lose all sense of perspective – that they just don’t think to ask if some of the groups they are trying to get along with actually deserve their support?

      • How so?

      • Bo

        I think that some of the attendees at these conferences may know exactly what they are going into and do it anyway hoping to effect change. When I was involved with the cult, cchr was fairly new. I was attracted to it because it seemed to fit with part of my original reason for getting into Scientology. This was before so much emphasis was put on their whack-a-doodle war on psychiatry. I have to wonder if the exposure to so many decent non scientologists makes them (members of Scientology front groups) look at their own “religion” askance and eventually lead them out of it. I know that I maintained close relationships with my family in spite of their doubts about my “religion” and I think this gave me just enough of an edge to question much of hubbard’s bs. Ultimately, this led to my exodus.

  • Edward Whalley

    Celebrity bodies in slop….think about it.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Legitimacy by association is about as much as $cientology
    can ever get nowadays. Hubbard’s bastard child is still a bastard,
    born out of wedlock from the union of greed and a lust for power.
    These pastors, rabbis and other are lazy.

    The good news is that attendance and publicity of these things is trifling.
    It primarily serves these days to convince the bubble-dwellers.
    “Going Clear” has been seen by over 9 million.
    SNL’s parody has a couple of million You Tube views.
    Couch Jumper will continue to be a meme for years.

    Tick Tock, OSA.
    Your rep is as toxic as cyanide.
    Delaying the inevitable.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Reminds me of the Pope’s reaction to Islam recently… like a snake in the grass he betrays his flock. Hurmph… inter-faith… as much of a farce as the multiculturalism experiment. The best these ‘religions’ can do for one another is pretend to respect one another… because each of them believes themselves superior and right.

  • Wog

    Ahhhhh-

    the ole “Smoke and Mirror’s” Program….

    Keeps Scientology Scamming!

  • I wonder if these events have any long-time attendees, or do they age them off like Menudo .. or Logan’s Run .. or Bluebeard’s wives?

    InterReligious coalition launched at Human Rights anniversary December 19, 2007, India Post

    • Fink Jonas

      Lol, Menudo I remember them

    • Bo

      The paragraphs quoting Hubbard. Ugh.

  • chukicita

    I wonder … what criteria are used in speaker / panel selection? Who decides on the short list of panelists?

    • Rod Keller

      The PR series goes into a lot of detail about how to do surveys to identify Opinion Leaders. It’s all in the tech.

    • ExCult.Jan

      The invitees who declined.

  • madame duran

    Rod Keller –

    In your conversation with the rabbi, you mentioned that Bishop Larry Eastland is both a Baptist minister and a Scientologist. Further down, however, you pointed out that Eastland was a rep for the Latter Day Saints (Mormon). I think you meant Bishop FRANKLIN HARRIS who is the Baptist-Scientologist.

    • Rod Keller

      oops.

  • It is strange that United for Human Rights (doing business as Youth for Human Rights) is hosting Inter-Faith events, when it’s a secular organization and frequently claims to the separate from Scientology.

    I also bet that in their Form 990s, there no room for the budget to host these kind of events without a fill-up from Scientology.

    • chukicita

      Their 2014 990 shows they still owe Mary Shuttleworth all but $200 of a loan she made them for over $41,500.

    • chukicita

      Page 5 here – I don’t think they were required to list their program expenses, but they did anyway.

      http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2014/202/661/2014-202661767-0c47db14-Z.pdf

      Laughably, they spent less than $12,500 on a “celebrity red-carpet event” fundraiser in Los Angeles that attracted 200 “celebrities and industry types” and was “covered by more than 20 media outlets.” Dollars to donuts it was held at the Celebrity Center with “in-kind” slave labor. Not sure what they’d have been able to serve for that amount per person. Pigs in a blanket, perhaps.

      Amazingly, they spent around $25K to “participate in hosting” a summit in Brussels. In a run-on sentence worthy of Dan Sherman (f5), this amount is ultimately tied to a global event impacting 57.5 million people. I’m not sure what the $25K was spent on (airfare from L.A.?), but these people are clearly program budget ninjas.

      • A video message from the UN Secretary-General. I wonder if it was specifically addressed to that event or was it just a general message to youth that they hijacked?

        • chukicita

          I bet the UN Secretary-General’s remarks on International Youth Day were hijacked and tacked on to the video sent by the un-named “former UN human rights education and protection advisor acknowledging the youth delegates …” who is probably running around a pole somewhere because they’re no longer an education and “protection advisor” for the UN.

          Interestingly, Youth for Human Rights is NOT listed among partnering programs for youth on the UN’s Youth web pages

          http://www.un.org/youthenvoy/youth-un/un-programmes-youth/

      • This one is kind of cringe-worthy:

        Human Rights Walkathon is Saturday in North Straub Park March 3, 2009, Tampa Bay Times

        Walkathon partners include Community Tampa Bay, the Tampa Bay Academy of Hope, the Florida Coalition Against Human Trafficking and Youth for Human Rights.

        • chukicita

          Argh. I know most of the people mentioned in the article.

          Someone like James Evans, who was working his ass off trying to do good things through Academy of Hope, was the kind of guy who would give you the benefit of the doubt, and not think a slimy organization was trying to take advantage of his good nature and trust. So when people come in and say hey, we want to help you, he just naturally thinks they really mean it.

          Dundu Dole, the urban African ballet, was impacted by the disaster with the Life Force charter school in Pinellas County run into the ground by Hanan Islam. The director of the dance troupe is a wonderful woman who helped start the school before it was taken over by Scientology-driven forces, and it broke her heart when the school closed. I bet they never got paid for this appearance.

          And the FCAHT – well they know better, but I think they also like to keep an eye on Scn, Inc.

          http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/life-force-charter-school-in-dunedin-closed-now-but-how-did-it-get-so-bad/1235588

          • Jenyfurrrrr

            Interesting article – thanks! Hadn’t read about that one before!

      • Juicer77

        I read this too quickly… and saw “International Human Rights Stunt” XD

      • OOkpik

        Thou shalt have no other Pigs before me!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I can’t be hard on these guys. Scientologists are very sneaky.

    The men of the cloth surely got a different pitch but their introduction must have been quite subtle. A basic principal of understanding Scientology is that if Scientologists told people the truth on first meeting, no one would ever join. They call this being on gradient. I call it deception.

    The men of the cloth will either get sucked in as their supporters or will turn away. Most will turn away. But it will take a bit of time for them to figure it out. I imagine that this excellent article will be part of the process that makes them give it a second thought.

    • Snippy_X

      They are being used, as mentioned above.

      • ExCult.Jan

        And, they are using the platform as an opportunity to further their own agenda, which clearly outweighed caring about the platform itself.

    • Noesis

      Most churches that have evolved to the point where they have a defined hierarchy have someone…or several someones…that do interfaith (and related) outreach and participation. They do this by being a part of others church’s activities as well as inviting other churches to participate in their own activities. Heber Jentzsch used to do a great deal of this sort of thing and he was very good at it.

      Sometimes it gets a little weird because the groups that do it the most aggressively are the ones that are somewhat on the fringe and are looking for allies…they are also willing to be allies for the other fringe groups when they run into PR or legal trouble. The People’s Temple was extremely aggressive about doing this kind of outreach. They concentrated especially hard on gathering political allies and they had a tremendous number of very significant politicians who ran interference for them…at least until the mass suicide, after which most of those politicians just sort of “forgot” about their prior support roles.

      If you are curious about…”how Scientology can get away with (insert atrocity)”…look no further than the reality of the politicians that previously were ardent supporters of the People’s Temple…and who STILL remain prominent, respected (lol) leaders decades later. Strange bedfellows and all that stuff.

      What makes the Scientology inter-faith outreach effort a bit odd is the degree to which it is run along the lines of a well crafted, written intelligence disinformation campaign, complete with operating targets and desired objectives that dovetail with a much larger propaganda agenda. It looks innocent on the outside, but is actually very calculated and arranged beforehand.

      One of the oddest of these events was several decades ago when Scientology was desperate for allies. Scientology sponsored an event at the Shrine with speakers from a variety of fringe groups all under the banner of “Human Rights.” One of the speakers Scientology invited was from NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) and yes the group advocates for exactly what the acronym stands for. Think…Jerry Sandusky…speaking up for “human rights.”

      The event has been chronicled before…it was an awkward moment in the extremely awkward history of Scientology PR. Lol.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply. I actually remember one of the politicians who supported Jim Jones– Bella Abzug.

        I have read your note several times and I think I see it the same way you do. In addition, I think we still live in a world where most people have never heard of Scientology. I remember a dear friend who was a sensitive and educated man who mixed Scientology up with Christian Science.

        It remains the Tom Cruise religion and maybe the John Travolta religion for people who read the tabloids. I am inclined to think that the men representing other faiths at the conference just got taken in and that there was nothing sordid in their own minds about their attendance. Of course, I could be wrong. But, as I said, it is my own experience that Scientology remains a rumour to most people. Certainly, Scientology’s criminal acts and the way Scientology has acted against those who oppose them remain a rumour to most people.

        • Noesis

          When Heber was doing a great deal of this sort of inter-faith outreach, many of the other church group leaders that he was working with had their own PR problems…as did Scientology.

          By presenting a united “religious” front to the general public, folks that were representing groups that were busy CREATING victims…could falsely present themselves AS victims.

          ‘Twas ever thus…and this exact sort of thing is done every day…in the field of politics especially.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Thanks for spending a bit more time with me, there, Noesis. I was being a bit thick. I understand that the view you have so patiently explained has to be taken into consideration when assessing the motives of people who have their own agendas.

            I still have to wonder though how much of their actions are out of ignorance and how much are out of an attempt to fulfill their own goals. And would have any of them have gotten involved with Scientology if they knew what many of us know?

            If you can indulge me by reading my anecdote– I have a neighbour who is a very educated man, a Ph.D who has had about 15 books published on a variety of topics. He is affiliated with several universities and hospitals as a medical ethicist. He has had a long career as a journalist and still gets something on air or in the newspapers perhaps once a month. Yet, he views Scientology as only a “wacky” religious group because he is vaguely aware that they have flying saucers in their cosmology. His mind will not be changed, because, it seems, he already knows as much as he wants to know about it. I do not talk to him about it. It would only frustrate me and irritate him.

            Do the holy men see Scientology only as a “wacky” group if they understand it at all? Or do they see it as a group that wants to trade harmful pseudo-science for all the money a person has and can ever get, then take him into slavery as a member of the Sea Org. I can see, say, a Sheriff with political ambitions dealing with the devil that way. Am I putting holy men on a pedestal? I would like to think that I am viewing them without naivety and with good experience.

            By the way, I have always considered Bella Abzug to be a sucker but not a malicious one with regards to the People’s Temple. I suspect that she saw it primarily as a Christian organization worthy of her support.

            • Noesis

              I don’t pretend to know the answers to your questions – but it does seem to me that many people famous for one thing…are also frequently attracted to strange and utterly incompatible ideas.

              For instance…Issac Newton was a key figure in the scientific revolution. He was responsible for some of the foundational ideas that still serve today in the hard physical sciences…yet he spent a great deal of his life seriously investigating and writing about…alchemy.

              There currently are brilliant and famous medical doctors…who are also extremely religious, holding views in that arena that many would find ridiculous.

              And there are famous and well regarded individuals who hold seemingly irrational political views. Otherwise competent and successful people often stake out seemingly bizarre positions about important matters that can cause one to doubt the entire human race.

              It is probably safe to say that 99% of the ex’s that are on this board would never have joined Scientology if they knew even a fraction of what they know now about their former church and its founder.

              Yet…there are still thousands of current members of Scientology that have potential access to the exact same information and choose…willingly…to ignore or argue against the veracity / importance of that information.

              One can come to the conclusion about others (as well as about oneself) that sometimes …people do not know…that…they do not know.

              Or sometimes worse…what they think they know…is not really worth knowing.

              It is also true that people are often able to compartmentalize some of their seemingly irrational ideas while they are doing stuff that we all rely on them for…like piloting an airliner loaded with 300 people across an ocean.

              But even that doesn’t always work out so well.

              Now that I think of it…where’s my old e-meter?

              I need to get me some more eternity.

              Lol.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Again, thank you for your thoughtful comment.

        • scottmercer

          When I went to the event with Tony and Paulette Cooper at the Steve Allen Theater at the CFI in Hollywood, there’s a Christian Science Reading Room right next door. They have a sign in the front window: “WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENTOLOGY.”

    • ithilien

      Baloney. They have no curiousity no awareness or they like the attention.

  • As they shrink, they could combine their strokejob events: Writers of the Interfaith Drug-Free Future to Happiness?

  • PickAnotherID

    When you consider the fact YFHR works at hiding it’s association with $cientology,I think these comments by Randy Dobbs and Rabbi Sobel explain why these folks are willing to participate in these events. At least in part:

    Randy Dobbs – “I’m always open to taking part in human rights events. We do a lot of human rights work, and inter-faith work and we work with others towards understanding.”

    Rabbi Sobel – “At first I didn’t think anything of it, then people asked “you’re going to the Church of Scientology?” and I said “No, they’re just hosting, and it’s by an international youth group for human rights,” and to this date I’m still not sure if that’s not an adjunct of Scientology or not.”

    It would be nice if the FTC required “front groups” to be clear about their association with whatever organization they are front for. And I don’t mean in 4pt type at the bottom of a flyer.

  • MM

    “Q: What would you say were the predominant themes of the event?
    A: Do I have to answer these questions? This is in the past, it’s over. Do I have to answer these questions?”

    “Do I have to answer these questions?” – One has to wonder what the point of repeatedly attending, and speaking at, a conference could possibly be when you’re not even willing to briefly summarize the theme of said event for someone who’s actually interested in what you have to say.

    “This is in the past, it’s over.” – What an odd statement to make for someone who is concerning themselves with things that were supposedly said and done two thousand years ago.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      well said…would he have been willing to answer to “okay, well then what are the CURRENT today’s or future themes?” or would that be too much to answer? something quite fishy here! i’m attending a event supposedly to speak and spread my religion and hear what others have to say, but i don’t want to say to anyone who asks? is that how it works? really?

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Exactly – that whole exchange seemed… Questionable!

    • kemist

      It seems to be the statement of a normally rather proud person who knows they have been taken advantage of, and is too ashamed to speak of it.

      My city’s mayor (a rather proud and arrogant character) has exactly the same attitude towards his own past blunders.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        That’s also the impression with which I was left! Though I think Pick Another ID’s feedback regarding the recent history w/Armenian occupation and how so much of it took place may well play a bigger part. I have a number of Armenian friends and that is a VERY raw area for them and a general mistrust due to growing up being told by parents/grandparents that “nothing and no one turned out to be what they seemed… Just trust our own…” And a very insular upbringing as a result.

      • Frodis73

        That is what I was wondering.

    • PickAnotherID

      Consider the history of what happened to the Armenian Apostolic Church, which is the national church of the Armenian people, when Soviet Russia invaded and took control of Armenia. Also what happened to the Armenian people in Turkey. That kind of thing can have a marked influence on anyone’s willingness to answer questions, not just Archdeacon Chulyan’s.

  • BuberZionist

    That rabbi was ignorant about Scientology. I would urge him to watch the film Going Clear before ever again attending an event at or sponsored by the Church of Scientology. If he watches it, he won’t go. Period.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      He seems like his eyes were opened a bit and I think Rod handled the questions very well, such that he will hopefully watch and likely start down a bit of the rabbit-hole of research that brought us all here at one point or another. I’m hopeful anyway!

      • I have a woman who wants me to read her stuff on the true origins of the Holocaust. I can’t wait. Wendy something.

        Hoo-boy.

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          That was my reaction to that also! Love to be a fly on the walk for THAT conversation!
          That’s what made him likable to me though. He seems like the kind of guy that feels if he gets to connect with even one person and find common ground and new understanding (not convert them, but meet in the middle) then it was worth it for him to be there.

  • Ivan Mapother

    Scientology is a for profit business masquerading as a religion to gain tax exemption, avoid government interference and to attack all critics as religious bigots. Their tax exemption is key to their existence. Without it, Scientology is just another multi-level marketing business. If they feel it’s being threatened, having other religious officials come to their defense is great PR.

  • Fink Jonas

    How uninformed these religious leaders are! Scientology must be laughing specially if they herd Jesus this and Jesus that, so much for being the light of the world, according to Scientology they are the only light of the world, have any of these leaders herd the story of the wolf in sheep clothing , well that is Scientology.

    • PickAnotherID

      No less informed than way too many govenment leaders and employees here in the US. Unfortunately.

  • madame duran

    I think someone should contact these members of clergy and 1) offer to host a “Going Clear” movie viewing party either for the head minister alone, the ministerial staff or the whole congregation and 2) a brief information pack outlining Scientology front groups, Scientology’s human rights abuses, its intolerance/incompatibility with other faiths, and the cult’s mandate to “safepoint” opinion leaders in order to neutralize criticism (complete with footnotes/quotes from Scientology material). Scientology has no interest in practicing transparency. I consider this as community service.
    And what’s up with the Armenian archdeacon being so defensive? Sheesh. I know they can be busy but can’t they schedule a time to answer the questions?

    • PickAnotherID

      Soviet Armenia didn’t end all that long ago, and there’s baggage that goes with being occupied by a country that was tearing churches down. And at one point the Turks weren’t all that gentle with Armenians either.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        That’s actually a really good point! This part did not occur to me at all – thank you!

    • Frodis73

      It wasn’t really made clear, so I wondered if the Armenian minister had since found out scientology had lied to him and that is what he was pissed about. I love these features by Rod, but he doesn’t make it clear if he proceeds to educate these fools anymore….or even tells them to hop on the net and do some reading before they get in bed with sci again.

      • Rod Keller

        I thought I would get better interviews if I asked questions rather than lecturing.

        • Frodis73

          I understand, but I still think at least telling them they were duped by a front group for scientology in order to gain legitimacy would be helpful.

          • FredEX2

            My question is what in the H*ll is a Baptist Minister doing also being a Scientologist??? He most likely will never be allowed to know what LRH wrote about Christians. Or if he does…he is misrepresenting himself to his Baptist congregation…like the serpent in Eden…or a snake in the grass. Sometimes what one is allowed to know is specifically tailored just for them…talk about infiltration tactics! What an ultimate Trojan Horse…a Baptist with a Scientologist inside. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9595fd5ae8fd645bb390d2fe0099d23523bd57472d61d6ffa11a1474e7022a9f.jpg

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              The general idea is good. Realize that you don’t have all the answers and support others who have a lot of beliefs that you share. In Vaughn, just north of Toronto, there is a synagogue that shares a parking lot with a mosque– it’s a start.

              But, what if somebody realized that he could commit all the crimes religions have been falsely accused of for thousands of years and get away with them, by calling himself a religion! Pretty sharp…

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I think your interview questions are excellent Rod – the controversies and Going Clear came up a lot, get them thinking. Now maybe some Bunker readers can follow up.

        • Ella Raitch

          And it is invaluable to understand what is going on for these representatives that allow themselves to be duped

  • “A: Do I have to answer these questions?”
    Tony doesn’t have the rank to ask them.

    • Robert Eckert

      Rod Keller certainly doesn’t.

  • Scream Nevermore

    If I set up my own religion, I wonder would they invite me to attend??

  • FredEX2

    Had I never been mistaken for some ridiculous ‘enemy’ and had my life Fair Gamed from under me…I dare say I might very well have been a friend of Scientology too. Many years ago I wasn’t inclined to listen to negativity about others. Perhaps I had my head in the clouds…or sand. But mostly my naivity was born from living a very sheltered life.

    There was a time that I may have assisted them in some of their causes and events as well. I might have even strived to draft legislation for them, and work to get auditing ‘accredited’ so Insurance Co.s would include it as a viable therapy and cover costs the way Health Care Ins. does for other types of mental health therapy making it more affordable so that people had more choices if they didn’t want to do traditional psychotherapy. I certainly would support Human Rights and Youth for Human Rights ( have you seen their public service announcements? they’re actually very well done and appealing, and their message has nothing to do with Scientology…at least not openly )

    IMHO, you cannot stand up to people or groups who do evil things…if you don’t also recognize the good they do…as a cover. To say Scientology is all bad and has ‘never’ helped anyone would not be entirely true. It may seem shocking that seemingly intelligent people are so easily drawn in …some to actually participate…in Scientology’s ‘front group’ endeavors. Some of these people do so with some prior knowledge about them. I confess that when I was ‘in’,…. as a sign of loyalty,..and bc I felt threatened & desperately needed OSA to loosen their grip on me and stop the harassment…I showed the PSAs to very dear friends of mine affiliated with the most major Media corporation in Canada…and those PSA’s were shown on their major station there during commercial breaks…for at least 24 hours…at no cost for the air time. I didn’t even need to ask.

    On the surface Scientology’s front groups serve them well. They appear professional and friendly and knowledgable about Human Rights issues…and if you seem to have some influence within your community, or are affiliated with people they want to impress and be accepted by…you are treated like a celebrity and get the whole VIP treatment. It’s something pretty hard to resist for many people. Pandering to an individual’s ego is just one way they make ‘friends’ and network, market and infiltrate other groups and organization’s, be they political…or as in today’s report… use religious leaders to attend, perhaps participate and give the impression they are mainstream and ‘safe’. It is ‘safe pointing’ tech…by making friends and ‘putting on the Ritz’ with others who might stand up for them…or deny and put in a good word about them to negate leaks of an inner darkness and hidden agenda within…a darkness that is hidden from their members as well.

    They know other ways to ‘safe point’ that aren’t so ‘friendly’ too. And they don’t hesitate to use those tactics if they perceive someone with influence may be a potential problem.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Great points FredEx! I always appreciate the way you describe your various experiences and relate them, as a never-in it truly does help me to better understand!

      • FredEX2

        I feel the same about your comments Jenyfurrrrr ❤️

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Aw thank you!! 😘

    • Tiziano Lugli when he was still under the radar:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzDqXVLavbU

      • FredEX2

        WOW! This is a Powerful dose of reality that would wake people up fast! .

        I wonder if the leaders of these religions might benefit from viewing it. And what if the members of the NOI and Farrakhan saw it and others like it?

        • ithilien

          They probably wouldnt have the time or interest to watch it. These men are not leaders. They all seem evasive and dull witted, if not downright sketchy, ignorant of what sci can do to them perhaps, and using sci for their own gratification possibly. They are what happens when spirituality is bureaucratized and people allow someone else to be an intermediary between themselves and divinity.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Link, please?

        • If you don’t see the YouTube video, you might need to refresh.

      • Qbird

        1st time viewing this for me, R. really good. PR propaganda vs. truth.
        perfectly revealing.

    • ithilien

      Intelligence is not why these clerics are attracted. attention whores. Special people so important in the ‘community’. Love bombed. Intelligence is also ot tte key in attracting sci memebers. Elitism, power, super powers is what the members want. Some want to be slaves too and others just dont have anywhere else.

  • David Arum

    Unification and outreach are warm and fuzzy,but Scientology at its core is not warm and fuzzy and is not really tolerant .

  • chukicita

    Someone needs to ask these speakers to bring up organizations that control people with undue influence. There is a direct link with human trafficking, after all.

  • Find a group of people short of resources, locate their ruin, give them a dream event with the Scientology kept out of sight..

    It works for minority religious people, would-be science-fiction writers, drug-prevention, etc.

  • Observer

    Dear Mr. Baha’i Guy:

    Scientology’s objective is identical to that of the Islamist fringe–everyone will be a Scientologist (ETA: or at least turn a blind eye to their atrocities, as you and the others are doing) or disposed of quietly and without sorrow. And you’re busy embroidering their religious cloak.

    I bet they weren’t all “Jesus this and Jesus that” with him.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Love that he sanctimoniously preaches about open-mindedness but hasn’t watched Going Clear or “read any of the books that are out either.”

      • (((dagobarbz)))

        Variation on the “Think For Yourself” motto, when it’s really the last thing they want you to do.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          As far Randy Dobbs’ quote is concerned, I see it from the perspective that anytime someone disagrees with him, they need to keep an open mind. The thought perhaps doesn’t occur to him that reciprocating the courtesy himself could possibly be justified.

          • Noesis

            He’s doing a Heber.

            Folks that do this sort of “inter-faith” outreach work are often also press spokesmen and they have well crafted lines that they use frequently to disarm critics.

            People on this board are accustomed to seeing through false PR because it is so prevalent in Scientology.

            Most people in the broader world do not even see it. They just nod and move on.

          • Oliver Cromwell famously pleaded, “I beseech you in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.”

            The operative word here is ‘possible’ – he was frustrated with people who would not even consider any alternative to their fixed ideas.

            You can only make progress if there are open minds on both sides of the argument.

      • Noesis

        Despite their assertions to the contrary, Scientology is so tiny as an organization that the broad majority of people on earth are only dimly aware of its existence and simply do not care about it at all.

        If one polled the entire population of earth, most do not know anything about Scientology, a subset know a little…and the broadest majority of those that know a little have only a vague notion…and primarily think of it as a punchline to several well worn jokes.

        Most people are wrapped up in their own stuff…Scientology does not make the list of things that are important…except to those that were involved, know people that were involved or are curious in general about totalist groups.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Huzza.

        • scottmercer

          And yet they still violate myriad laws on a daily basis and should prosecuted under RICO statutes.

    • ithilien

      That is the objective of Islam, not just the islamic fringe. And it always has been. Islam isnt just like christianity except they have a different name for god.

    • That reminds me of the many happy Stevemas parties my friends and I would throw in Santa Cruz, back in the 80s. My ex collected cheesy, ’50s religious ephemera, because he thought that the hunky, blonde, blue-eyed Jesus was hot. One stoned night, we decided that wasn’t Jesus at all, but his brother Steve, born on the Fourth of July. We had great parties and there was a liturgy and everything. You see, Jesus was all goody two-shoes, and sent to save us, but his bro Steve was a hedonistic party monster sent to please us. All I remember was one of the hymns went “It’s Jesus this and Jesus that, and all this talk of Jesus. But what about god’s other son, the one sent down to please us?”

    • ExCult.Jan

      Baha’is believe they have the way to god’s kingdom on earth and eventually everyone (who matters) will be Baha’i – cloaked in camouflage about universal brotherhood. Oh, and don’t be gay, or you can’t belong to the club. And if you do belong, don’t dare question the authority of the leadership, or you will be shunned, including by your spouse, parents, kids…

  • BosonStark

    Scientology should invite speakers from the Branch Dividians, Jonestown, and Heaven’s Gate. (There are survivors from each of those groups.)

    • (((dagobarbz)))

      Scientology is using these religions as camouflage. By hosting these events (or co-hosting) people will see their name rubbing shoulders with Muslim and Presbyterians, two brand name religions everyone’s heard of. It is a favorable brand positioning.

      It is kinda odd, that one guy who knows there are books and a movie out there, yet hasn’t looked at any of it.

      Those who fail to practice due diligence are responsible for the consequences. Like when parishioners start asking difficult questions of their spiritual leaders. And there is certainly enough material to work with here. Ron had something to say about EVERYTHING.

      Oh, and doncha just love the cuddly little Rabbi who is vaguely enturbulated by the front group aspect of YFHR et. al. but yes, would go again despite his misgivings.

      • ExCult.Jan

        It is not odd, and it wasn’t just one guy who admitted he hadn’t seen the movie or researched before agreeing to use the event to further their own agenda. If they practiced due diligence and responded to their cognitive dissonance they might have to find a new job.

  • jazzlover
  • BosonStark

    Come to think of it, most religious leaders would probably be turned off by the “Prison of Belief” part of the Wright/Gibney title, especially the ones who would accept an opportunity to speak at a Scientology-sponsored event. They are there to open the hearts and minds of anyone listening to the one true religion, theirs.

    Perhaps they would be more interested in reading the book if it had been called just GOING CLEAR, without the prison part. Although for everyone else, the full title is great. I love the full title.

  • Jeb Burton

    What I don’t get, what is Scientologys end game? What are they hoping to achieve with the seminars? I know, it’s all about money in the end. I just don’t see how these are helpful to the cult.

    • Rod Keller

      LRH’s theory is that OLs will be Scientology’s allies to defend against government attacks. In reality, I don’t think it works that way. The Safe Point is one of the most important policies to understand why they do what they do.

      • Jeb Burton

        Good point. But I don’t think other religions are going to be allies if they have a just a little knowledge of the cult.

        • Rod Keller

          I think it helps to remind ourselves that this is a cult. They follow policy regardless of whether it works or not. If they could still send Telexes like they are supposed to, they would. There’s a policy for how to keep keys, there’s a policy for how to wash a car. I am dead sure that LRH’s Jaguar at Saint Hill is washed with Tide detergent. That’s in the policy.

          • Jeb Burton

            That makes sense. Nine out of ten moms prefer Tide.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        The Rabbi who was interviewed seemed to have the best grasp on the covert purpose and manipulative nature of the conference and I just loved his humorous asides about his congregation teasing him about his participation in the event. Of all of the religious organization’s reps interviewed, he seemed to have the most understanding of the cherch’s increasingly negative public image and, as a result, didn’t just assume that the ostensible purpose of promoting tolerance through interfaith dialogue was the whole story.

        Propagandist “safe pointing” events like these may have some minor effect on those who have no prior knowledge of the cherch and no familiarity with the massive amount of negtive PR it’s earned itself in recent years by, for example, enforcing familial disconnection, mandating forced abortions and torturing/false imprisoning its staff. But what percentage of the adult population might that be, 2-3%?

        Besides, government attack is not the cherch’s primary worry any more. They very successfully snowed and coerced the IRS into granting them tax-exempt status and FBI investigations into human trafficking, false imprisonment and the like appear to have been shelved. Moreover, in the two regions of the country where $cn is most concentrated, Los Angeles and Clearwater, the local police forces appear to have been mollified and perhaps even partially bent to the will of the cult through licit and illicit financial inducements. As a result, “safe pointing” OLs in order to blunt or disarm government attack isn’t going to “handle” $cn’s real problems because they now lie elsewhere.

        They lie with the informed and increasingly well-connected public who’ve seen BIG Being Tom acting like an ‘off his meds’ manic depressive in his manic upswing mode and who’ve either read Lawrence Wright’s book, “Going Clear,” or seen Gibney’s HBO doc of the same name. Add to that all the additional public ill will that they’ve earned themselves by going after ex-members who’ve spoken out and putting up transparently bogus hate websites on its most public detractors. As a consequence of their own ‘foot bulletry’ it would be hard to find someone who pays attention to the news or follows entertainment media sources who hasn’t already been “danger pointed” about $cn and its malevolent and authoritarian leadership.

        Attempts to safe point the entire country, by marching out celeb front men, like Tom and John, have failed miserably and has begun to drive the few remaining celebs that the cherch has counted on in the past into semi-hiding. Once you’ve made your bed, $cn, you’re going to have to lie in it, and I’m afraid that no amount of false propaganda is going to change that around.

        In a sense, the “killer bee swarm” strategy that $cn employed so effectively in the past has now come back to bite them in the arse as the cherch becomes increasingly toothless in its litigation efforts (for fear of DM being deposed) and as the consistent pattern of their terrorist activities against ex-members, journalists and detractors in continuing to pursue their infamous Fair Game policy is highlighted and demonstrated to be just the latest in a long and disgusting history of similar behavior on the cherch’s part.

        What’s required, imo, is that $cn and all of its many front groups get “danger pointed” as often and as publicly as possible! And that grass roots efforts, such as Phil and Willie Jones’ anti-disconnection billboard campaign, continue to raise public awareness of exactly how evil this dangerous and morally despicable this mind control cult truly is!

        Perhaps then, some ambitious pol will champion the cause and bring $cn’s vile machinations back under government scrutiny. As with any criminal mafia investigation

    • (((dagobarbz)))

      “Hi, I’m the religion Scientology. Have you met my close personal friends, the Methodists, Mormons, Zoroasters and Islam? We all hang out together a lot because we are all cromulent religions. Just like us.”

      • ExCult.Jan

        Oooo, thanks for dropping ‘cromulent’. Good and useful word, that.

    • FredEX2

      Public relations. Safe pointing within the community.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Exactly!

  • Observer

    I do not understand how, after the Holocaust, after Jeffrey Dahmer, after Jonestown, after Manson, and with Daesh currently committing untold numbers of atrocities daily, some people still think nobody could possibly do the less terrible but still terrible things Scientology does.

    • ExCult.Jan

      NIMBY

    • Ella Raitch

      Especially given the wealth of quality coverage – Going Clear got an Emmy FFS – Wright is a Pulitzer prize winner…it was the quality of Tony’s reporting and the fact that he wrote for a publication that was engaged in mainstream reporting of other kinds that made me realise the protests against Scientology weren’t just whackadoodle conspiracy theory stuff

  • (((dagobarbz)))

    Scientology used to co-host these things here, but I haven’t heard about any, and a cursory google search has references to them from 2008.
    https://whyweprotest.net/threads/san-diego-interfaith-alliance-april-26th.5801/

  • Harpoona Frittata

    Loved this bit with the Armenian Archdeacon :

    “Q: What would you say were the predominant themes of the event?

    A: Do I have to answer these questions? This is in the past, it’s over. Do I have to answer these questions?

    No, Archdeacon, you don’t.”

    And thank goodness for that! After all, this IS America where your Constitutional right to freedom of speech is held absolutely sacrosanct…that is, of course, unless you are a member of the cherch of $cn, where refusal to answer questions while hooked up to the cherch’s standard issue mind control facilitation device is a sin which can result in ecclesiastic discipline up to and including ex communication.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Rod Keller, I bloody love you.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    Great information, thank you!

  • Chocolate Velvet

    A while back I did some simple modifications to the bullshit graphics that the cult puts out on social media. Just to, you know, improve the accuracy and honesty. Here’s one that is appropos to today’s subject. Feel free to post and share:

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Good Sunday morning, all! It’s been a while since I’ve offered a look at the Valley Ideal Org and the awesome, awesome progress on its journey to splendiferousness. So here you are.

    I know that Disqus will randomize the attached images, so I will write some descriptions and you sort them out!

    Actual work has been done, along with accompanying paranoia. Security is almost as tight as it will be once the place is finally open to the public desperately waiting to flood its doors.

    As you can see, even with work underway, they are still one chair short of a TR.

    Yes, that is a skull you see in one of the photos and no, I have no idea why it is there. But it is in the secured part of the property.

    Finally, I have included a photo showing the building’s facade facing Burbank Blvd, and a fairly large building across the street. (This is in the photo with the three palm trees.) That is a brand new apartment building, built from the ground up (actually, underground up– there’s an extensive subterranean parking garage underneath) in a fraction of the time that the CoS has spent on remodeling their building. Odd, is it not, that hapless wogs are capable of putting up an entire building while the Most Capable People on Earth are spinning their wheels. It’s enough to make you doubt the efficacy of the Tech…

    (refresh for seven images)

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Got a good laugh at the “vigilant”, downright insane private guards. good photo’s, thanks.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Great update! The skull is so bizarre.

      • Maybe one of the construction guys is a Hell’s Angel. That’s a common gang sign for them. I only know this because our idiot lovely neighbor is a mid-level executive with the Angels and their yard waste bin is festooned with a huge skull graphic that warns everyone that this is Angel territory. They never lock anything and leave bikes and toys and things in the yard. Nothing ever gets nicked.

        • Bobby Tolberto aka TDA

          I have a Mongols (Hollister of course, the city, not the brand) t-shirt that I picked up in a thrift store in Seaside, CA. I’ve been told that wearing it in certain bars around here could be interpreted as an invitation to getting into a fight. I’ve never tested that hypothesis, although I doubt your neighbor would soil his hands with the likes of me.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Hell’s Angel skull=actual power over MEST.

          Noted!

      • Maybe someone was told that if they joined Scientology they would get ahead. – and just couldn’t wait.

      • Jon S

        Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him Horatio.

    • “One chair short of a TR”. I like that!

    • Yard skull has totally made my week. Long live Yard Skull!

      • Bobby Tolberto aka TDA

        “Because I could not stop for Death
        All he left me was this lousy skull!”

    • I suppose they have to create multiple auditing rooms (and corridors to access them) whenever they convert buildings designed with large communal spaces into an Org, and that’s why they have have such an obsession with wall-board.

    • HelluvaHoax!

      Critics and SPs should not be so quick to invalidate that photo of the Ideal Org’s one (1) lone chair. At a recent very special VIP briefing, senior church officials r-factored us that it’s a major tech breakthrough!

      Solo TR-O.

      • OOkpik

        LOL
        I’m happy you came here to set us straight.
        I’m happy you came here!!

      • Ella Raitch

        Half the.people, twice the fun

      • sizzle8

        Actually the ashtray and the student flew straight up off into space.

    • aquaclara

      Thanks! Love the pics and commentary! You’re the best, Dougie.

    • one chair short of a TR

      Bravo!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    In a tone that’s most hysterical
    DM demands PR so clerical
    Asks for rabbis and pastors
    To prevent media disasters
    His interests are only numerical

    $cientology is such a fake religion
    You can serve as it’s stool pigeon
    It’s efforts are most risible,
    It’ll join the choir invisible
    Spiritual? Not even a smidgen

    • BosonStark

      Scientology cubicle at the interfaith headquarters?

    • JJ

      Did that to my bedroom as a teen. Was way cooler! Records hanging from the ceiling.

  • Juicer77

    There is a real need to educate the religious leaders of all faiths in how to spot thought-control groups and differentiate them from non-control groups. Thank goodness for those few speakers who try to educate others about it.
    There will be situations where someone in their religious group asks a minister/rabbi/imam for guidance after they’ve come into contact with a thought-control group, or someone they love does. What will the religious leader say? How will they deal with it?

    • ExCult.Jan

      Matter of degree, IMHO.

      • April

        All of the major religions seek to control their parishoners’ lives. Why else would the Catholic church care one way or the other whether a couple uses contraception as a way to limit their family size to one they can adequately provide for financially.
        The CO$ and other abusive cults, on the other hand, take the control to a whole ‘nother level.

      • Juicer77

        How so?

        • ExCult.Jan

          All religions practice thought control to some degree, IMHO.

          • Juicer77

            Gotcha.

  • One of Korea’s most notorious cults has the same kind of events. It’s always just baffling and frustrating that most of those attending are happily ignorant. Members of that cult actually turned up at a Scientology event held in Sydeny recently^ Birds of the feather…
    http://jmscult.com/scj.html

  • Juicer77

    Of all the religious garb, I like the Armenian Apostolic Bowtie best. 😉

  • flyonthewall

    Cool that you got interviews with some of the speakers. The Jewish guy seems promising. Hopefully he will check out the clam’s Psychiatry museum

    • April

      The Rabbi gave me a chuckle when he was talking about the Baptist preacher, whose talk “… was just Jesus this and Jesus that, everything I would expect from a preacher.”

  • gtsix

    Well lookie lookie at all those self-blinded safe pointed religious dups. Makes my head hurt and my heart laugh.

    If you muppets are going to be used by the cult of a madman.. I hope you got some slave made banquet food for your trouble. Did they give you each a box of muffins (made with the fear of the sea org)?

    • nunyabidnes

      Probably the banquet involves cheese and crackers with lots and lots of quiche! That was the really funny thing I learned from the Ross & Carrie Scientology podcasts. If you haven’t heard them, you should check them out. That is some first class entertainment! Those guys are so smart and funny.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Of the other-faith Opinion Leaders I enjoyed reading the rabbi’s answers, especially his take on psychiatry and the story about the non-Jew Carl Jung being invited into the Vienna psychiatry group. So, the rabbi will soon learn about “the men behind Hitler”, according to cult. Well, forewarned is fore armed!

    Bishop, rabbi, pastor, minister, imam, watch out! Be careful!

  • Narapoid

    I wonder if Chairman Miscavige will bless this gathering with his presence? Or will he just send an ecclesiastical lawyer? f5

  • $cientology has been going downhill with this crap since Prayer Day in 1976, held in Anaheim. Back then, we didn’t have the Internet so the truth wasn’t as prevalent. Christopher Reeve flew Heber & Yvonne Jentzsch and Celebrity Centre registrar Hector Carmona to the event in a private plane, and Chick Corea and Stanley Clarke played, Guardian Jane Kember was over from England to speak, and the entire event was utterly worthless, just like they are now, but today on a much smaller scale. You can always count on $cientology to keep doing things that don’t work.

  • Narapoid

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Hilarious! And if you somehow managed to get all the way up the bridge to OaTy 3 while still believing in your faith, then imagine your shock and consternation in finding out that little bit of news…and paying through the nose to do it!

      “But, but…I thought you guys said that I could keep my faith and that $cn was inclusive and tolerant of all religious beliefs!!?” FLUNK

    • FredEX2

      LOL

  • nottrue

    Keeping their Religious Status is number one for Scientology. Without it they are nothing

    • And associating themselves with real religions not only rubs a little respectability off on them, but brings them to the notice of religious bureaucracies (who know where their interests lie).

      The moment there is talk of ending Scientology’s tax exemption they will have contacts whom they can persuade to campaign for them because they are afraid of the ‘the thin end of the wedge’ – afraid that if an exception is made in the case of Scientology, they might be next.

      Ordinary believers may not think like this, but the people who run large religious organisations are far more administrator and politician than they are pastor. Don’t stand between them and their interests, or they will trample you down and bless you afterwards.

      • Bobby Tolberto aka TDA

        “Nothing can be more disconcerting to a Bishop than the report of a Saint in his Diocese.”

        • I’m also reminded of that long passage in Dostoevsky’s book, “The Brothers Karamazov”.

          It’s a story told by a character in which Christ returns… but is imprisoned and lectured by the Grand Inquisitor for rocking the boat,with his talk of ‘freedom’, just as the Church has everything under control.

  • ithilien

    Hard to believe educated people whose lifes work is religion would have so little interest curiosity or knowledge about other cult religions and be willing to participate no questions asked. No intellectual curiosity. That is at least for the ones who are sincere. The ones who refuse to communicate i am pretty sure are shaky as hell to begin with, and know exactly what sci is. That first dude is a put on , right? He cant be for real. So this pack of religious leaders are either no nothings, wanna no nothings, or refuse to accept what they are told. BTW, goyim is Yiddish for wog.

    • ExCult.Jan

      Color me jaded, but I don’t find it surprising at all that folks with a career in (their acceptable cult) religion aren’t intellectually curious, especially about other groups that don’t follow their “truth”.

    • nunyabidnes

      People who are religious are not known for their critical thinking skills. How else can they believe the fantastical things religions teach? Even with the info right in front of them, they probably lack the skills to evaluate it.

      A woman I know who is Catholic told me that she doesn’t like to think too deeply about any part of her religion. Her 12-yr-old son was having lots of questions, and she just told him to ask the priest because she didn’t know how to answer his questions. I asked her what questions, and it was about the things that are contradictory or really fantastical in christianity. I asked her if she wouldn’t like to know what the church’s answer was to these things, and she replied that she didn’t really want to know or think about it. She just did the things that were expected of her. I suspect there are a lot of religious people like her. A lot of people are just not intellectual at all, and they make the perfect religious subject. They are true joiners.

      It seems a lot of Scientologists, despite all it’s blather about thinking for yourself, blah blah blah, fall into that category. After all, who doesn’t like the idea of thinking for yourself? However, if a scientologist actually does such a thing, they will be straightened out pretty quickly.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        “I asked her if she wouldn’t like to know what the church’s answer was to
        these things, and she replied that she didn’t really want to know or
        think about it.”

        That sort of anticipatory preemption of cognitive dissonance gets taken to its most bizarre and crazy limits in $cn, where ‘kiddy filters’ have to be installed on your devices connected to the internet so that (gulp) the faithful will never run into anything that might cause them to doubt or even question the cherch’s doctrine.

        And God help you if you even mention being curious about what Going Clear is all about! Just mentioning the desire to know more could easily get your pre-crime ass sent to Sec checking for some very costly regrooving 😉

        What are the objective signs that a religious group has crossed the line into becoming a dangerous cult? One really large red flag there is when its members automatically employ thought-policing measures on themselves and do so as a matter of course and with no resentment or sense of being controlled.

      • I can only go with you part-way. I understand what you mean, and there are undoubtedly people like that who have neither the ability to face up to reality without some comforting illusions, nor quite the ability to accept a body of doctrine without serious doubts.

        However, I know clever, capable people with a capacity for fearsomely critical thought, who are still religious.

        In their case, it’s not that they can’t see the contradictions in their faith. It’s the fact that they keep that part of their lives intellectually compartmentalised. The rules that they apply to their religious life are different to those they use (skilfully) in everyday life.

        The reasons that they are able to performs this kind of ‘doublethink’ is that their faith is predicated on emotional and social needs and provides strategies for rationalising away contradictions

        For example I have been assured that if God answers you fervent prayer it is proof of His power. If he declines to do so, that is proof of His wisdom – what you asked for was not ultimately for the best, and you have to have faith and yield to his judgement – in fact it would be blasphemous to question it.

        This can help some people reconcile themselves to the challenges they meet during their lives. The problems arises when unscrupulous people set themselves up as religious professionals who ‘interpret’ Gods will for believers, to suit themselves. This kind of delusion can be functional – or expose believers to exploitation.

        The fact is that people are not members of religions because they have performed a logical analysis of religious doctrines and chosen the one which is most convincing. Religions institutions would collapse if everyone started doing that.

        They are members for many other reasons, for example.:

        a) Because they were born into and socialised into faith
        b) Because they enjoy the fellowship of like-minded people who (in most congregations) at least try to behave well
        c) Because they need to be assured that life it not arbitrary and often pointless, cruel and unfair – they can partake of the comforting illusion that their existence is part of a divine plan, which will turn out well in the end
        d) They prefer the promise of an afterlife to the thought that their inevitable death will bring about eternal oblivion.

        Sometimes (as with Scientology) those needs are mercilessly exploited. At other times, they provide comfort and cause people to behave more compassionately both as individuals and in groups. As is often said around here, Scientology’s strange beliefs are not the problem – the problem is their abuses and law-breaking, and the social harm that this behaviour causes.

        Besides, some people need the consolations of religion, and society if full of organisations anxious to provide them. Being anti-religion is like being anti-glacier. It’s pointless. The best you can do is try to minimise the harm done by people who exploit the religious impulse and do harm.

        • Kestrel

          Well said.

        • Techie

          I’m anti-glacier. Last time the glaciers got out of control there was a mile thick sheet of ice near where I live now. But seriously, Once-Born, that is about the best explanation I’ve seen so far. While it is true a conflagration of cruelties seems to have flown with avowed spiritualist wings, throughout history, the anti-spiritualists have not done much better. Cruelty seems to be a human frailty, not a spiritual one. Some day, if civilization can be held together long enough and respect for scientific inquiry does not die completely, we may know what parts of the brain control which behaviors, why destruction sometimes seems more compelling than compassion, how to help someone control their passions without compromising their liberty. Maybe there are genetic markers involved, maybe something we can’t even imagine today. Or maybe we are simply programmed by nature to self-destruct after a time or if the population gets too great. I don’t know, but in the mean time it is wise to remember the stolen words of L Ron Hubbard: “There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, that it ill behooves the most of us to talk about the rest of us.”

          • Trouble is, if we did understand ourselves on such a fundamental level, there would still be people who would try to use that knowledge for control and not liberation.

            I think the fundamental problem with faith is that it can be hijacked and, once you have misplaced your faith, it is so much more difficult to cut you losses and withdraw, because you get used to rationalising everything that is wrong about your religion’s behaviour.

            A good start would to just be kinder to each other. If anyone really could organise that they would truly change the world.

        • Juicer77

          And sometimes people of faith, like me, understand that the universe is much bigger than any human can understand. 🙂

          • I wouldn’t have it any other way, either. Living in a place that we completely understood would be no fun at all.

  • nottrue

    Get them out of there…Glendale Galleria

    • jazzlover

      What? No Terl cell phones?

  • BosonStark

    Remember folks, Scientology is not just a Xenu-based space cult multi-level marketing scam with special centers for celebrities, it’s a real religion.

    As the name “Scientology” becomes more toxic, even more splintering will take place. The Way to Happiness Foundation will break down into other groups such as The Way to Smile, The Way to Laughter, and The Way to be a Billionaire. Each will have their associated interfaith organization events. Soon, all events on the planet will be sponsored by Scientology. Scientology will absorb and control all organizations, including the world’s major religions.

    • randomity

      Does that mean there will be an Infants for Human Rights and a Zygotes for Human Rights?

      • BosonStark

        Right now, there is much planning in the works to expand the Citizens Commission on ______, and the Youth for _____ brands. All literature put out by these front groups will feature the name “Scientology” in a special font which can be viewed only under electron microscopy.

    • That’s funny – but true.

      As Scientology declines I expect front groups to proliferate and have shorter lifespans. At some point they may become the equivalent of the ‘pop-up shop’ – brought into existence for a few months (or until somebody spots the Scientology connection) and then ‘parked’ or abandoned.

      The only way to conceal the Scientology connections of a front group soon may be to shuffle them faster than activists and the public can keep up with.

      • BosonStark

        Youth for the Ethical Treatment and Disposal of the Evil Psychs. No one will suspect it’s Scientology.

        • Expiring in 3… 2… 1… it’s now Ethical Youth against Psychiatric Abuse (rinse and repeat – endlessly).

      • Mockingbird

        I think offshoots have a longer shelf life. Particularly if they don’t acknowledge Hubbard or Scientology and claim to be completely different. Many have sprung up and defrauded victims who never knew anything about Scientology to compare their own experiences to.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        So, like decoy funnel cake stands at county fairs, where the wrapper is a ‘free’ ticket for personality testing? Or paid-for-advertising in proctologists’ offices that says, “Get half off on your next colonoscopy exam, just call 1-800-Sci-Anal and ask to be connected with one of our reach-around consultants!”

        • Time and again, people around here make jokes, only to find that Scientology actually does something even more surreal.

          Be careful what you imagine – you could get something even worse.

          PS: I know a proctologist who’s going on holiday so that he can look up some old friends.

    • When we see a “Save the Whales” front-group, then we know it’s really bad!

  • Draco

    “We were welcome to bring as many people as we wanted. It was short notice, so I didn’t bring anybody”

    Typical – throw together an event at the last minute. So scientology.

    • flyonthewall

      Aug 3rd and 10th are Wednesdays after all 🙂 Just in time to get their stats in

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Unlike that time the Chautauqua Institution organized an interfaith event and Sylvia Stanard crashed and burned when faced with an open-minded audience that had clearly bothered to prepare.

  • Len Zinberg

    Useful idiots, and shills.

    (Why no Farrakhan?
    Too toxic?)

    • And because Calypso Louie’s already taking a cut on the scam, I’d guess.

  • Why do I keep on hearing “That would be an ecumenical matter”? (P.S. RIP Frank Kelly. Replenish stores of communion wine):

    • I love my brick.

      • Nuns! Nuns! Reverse! Reverse!

      • You have a brick?

        • Er… that’s an obscure reference to an obscure UK TV comedy programme, “Father Ted”.

          If people from other parts of the world thought we were mad, you can now relax. The previous exchange has removed all doubt.

    • ze moo

      The kosher and Halal rules are out the window. And yes, I’ll have bacon with my spam. Yummmm, spam!

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Hilarious!

      Do you think it’s possible to be shooped to death?

      I’m not sure, but I think that when it comes to lil davey and Kim Jong Un it’s certainly worth a try!

    • Xenu is my Homeboy

      Feck! Girls! Drink!

      • Because the “Arse!” is already in the shoop 😉

    • Ella Raitch

      Father Jack would never!!!……….(oh yeah, yeah he would)

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Is this guy hiding behind the other side of the altar???

      (refresh)

  • BosonStark

    They could have a Scientology speaker at one of these things, but what would he say…

    Mr. Miscavige does not beat his underlings, and Scientology is not a kooky space cult which was started by a science fiction writer. Dr. Hubbard also wrote westerns, and in his spare time, sacred scriptures about everything from galactic overlords to masturbation. He also worked with tomatoes.

    Now on to the horrible persecution we endured when no one came to see Battlefield Earth. It was a terrible box office failure, like Cocktail times 47. And then a Pulitzer prize-winning author wrote a book exposing us. If we didn’t have our whales, there would be hardly anyone left to fleece. We must all join together to…

    • ze moo

      Tortured Tomatoes. Poor little red things….

      • BosonStark

        All part of his important research. They scream when sliced.

  • ze moo

    Come for the pizza bagels, and stay for the chance to tell your persecution story. Sikhs and Falun Gong have a well known history of real persecution, $cientology, not so much. All the rest are just there to hear themselves speak and punch their ‘public outreach’ cards. Nice to see that so many of the ‘useful idiots’ are too ashamed to return the phone calls.

  • Draco

    Now that scn is losing its base of faithful adherents, they need to find others to keep the “us versus them” mindset going. Let all the “misunderstood” religions stand together against the big bad world out there who are out to get them!

    Interesting that Co$ did not do a presentation of what scn is all about. After all, surely they want others to understand that they too, are a persecuted, misunderstood religion? Scared of questions from the floor? Worried that one of the people they had invited to speak might have heard some “entheta” about scn and might have some awkward questions? If you are going for better understanding about one another, you should be prepared to put your own beliefs on the table as well, and some healthy Q&A could only forward this agenda. Or maybe not…

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “Interesting that Co$ did not do a presentation of what scn is all about.”

      Might have something to do with their intense fear that someone will pipe up with a question about Xenu and a path to total spiritual freedom that requires extensive telepathic self-exorcisms of disembodied space aliens, or even something more mundane, like, “Does the cherch require its members to disconnect from family members and friends who don’t believe in cherch doctrine?”

      OH NOOOO…they don’t even want to hear someone ask those kinds of questions in public, much less be pressed for an on-the-record answer 😉

      • Kestrel

        Besides, it takes money to find out what scientology is all about. You don’t want them to be out-exchange, do you?

  • madame duran

    Somewhere in the world, there are people of faith who are routinely persecuted simply for adhering to their beliefs. They are either killed, tortured, jailed (unfairly and sometimes indefinitely), threatened, deprived of basic necessities/freedoms, or become traumatized witnesses to these atrocities. The attacks are usually sanctioned by the local community or through an oppressive regime. This isn’t mere “hearsay”; the effects of religious persecution is well documented.
    So it GALLS me to think of a scheming, abusive, criminal cult like Scientology would have anything to say or compare itself when it comes to human rights, tolerance and religious persecution. Where in the world are Scientologists being ruthlessly hounded ASIDE FROM THEIR OWN CHURCH??? Where are their martyrs? Where are the psychological and bodily scars? Where’s the multitude of Scientology refugees fleeing for their lives? Where are the mass graves? Even in a country like Germany where Scientology is heavily monitored, Scientologists still retain their freedom to believe and can access courts if necessary. It pays to know WHY Scientology is considered “anti-democratic” and is looked upon with suspicion. Having experienced a totalitarian state within its own history, Germany knows how to spot dangerous groups. It really disgusts me how Scientology preys on the good will of others to make inroads for its own selfish goals.

  • MaxSpaceman

    If the Jedi Church had been represented at an Interfaith Conference of United for Human Rights aka Scn Front Group,

    then it would’ve been a fair representation of World religions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

  • For some reason, the whole interview with the Archdeacon reminds me of something from a Mel Brooks movie.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      It does, but I wonder how the Archdeacon’s congregation feels about the Turkish whitewash of the Armenian genocide.

      I don’t think that a dsimissive “This is in the past, it’s over.” would be the sort of answer that would go over very well with them.

      It’s bizarre he said it at all.

  • aquaclara

    Great work, Rod. I admire your gutsiness in picking up the phone to call these people, as Tony does all the time. And of course I cracked up, too, when you got the classic no answer from so many.

    I feel for the Rabbi. He did take the opportunity to get the word out, which is what good people of faith actually do in their roles. He sounds like an honorable and smart man, perhaps now open to the possibility he may have been suckered in. He will learn from this experience, too.

    Many of the others who were there were either in on some kind of take from Scientology, or were actual Scientologists themselves. It’s like WISE for ministers. Somewhere, someone is making money.
    What an outstanding set of interviews today. You shone a light on something here.

  • Mockingbird

    Can someone show these interfaith folks what Hubbard said about Christ ?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=60HzfzQxMEc

      • Qbird

        I am ever so grateful that I do not, nor have I ever,
        paid good money to,
        have to,
        listen to this guy LRon Hubbard.

      • Mockingbird

        This is the Scientology interfaith outreach video !

    • MaxSpaceman

      “Yes- I knew it! I knew it had to be something like that,” the seeker said.

      “Somebody, somewhere on this planet, back about 600 B.C., found some pieces of R6 … It became what is known as Christianity.”

  • ithilien

    Im very open minded except when it comes to reading books or watching movies. or being culturally aware or curious. Or answering obvious questions. Then i pretend im clueless.

    Im wrinting to that rabbi. he pisses me off.

  • sizzle8

    In 1963 Ron gave a brief comment about Muslims/Mohammedans,

    “… funny part of it is, that if we went down to a Mohammedan church – a mosque – left our slippers outside and told the girl auditors they couldn’t come in – women don’t have any souls in Mohammedanism: no thetans, they’re thetanless bodies walking about – and we went in and we talked to the muezzin or whoever it is, and we said, “Hey, you know, you can clear people.”

    “Oh, yes, yes,” he’d say, “just spread your prayer rug and bend to the East five times a day, wash your hands regularly, follow the Koran and you got it made.”

    You say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s – that’s right. That’s – thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now, what I said was, you probably didn’t hear me – we can clear people.”

    Well, he’d say, “Yeah? What’s that?”

    You’d say, “Well, we’ve found that some of your people haven’t gone to heaven. They’re still around, earthbound. They don’t take off.” [laughter]

    He’d call in some wise men and they’d consult about it and after a while he’d come out and he’d say to us, “How can we get our hands on them, not going to heaven this way – the way they’re supposed to?” you see. And giving them a total defeat.

    You’d say, “Well, you have to clear them.”

    “Well, how do you do that?”

    “Well,” you say, “you get an auditor and an E-Meter and you do this and you do that.”

    And he’d say, “Well, I don’t know. That’s pretty heretical. That’s pretty horrible. And besides, this idea of these people still being around, yes, we can appreciate that. We can appreciate that. And they shouldn’t be. They should have gone to heaven or they should have gone – at least had the good graces to go to hell,” or wherever it is Mohammedans go. And then he’d have thought, “This is a rival activity. They’ve got their own private heaven they’re trying to ship people to and they’re trying to ship some of our people to their heaven,” and he would have understood it then totally in the framework of Mohammedanism. And then we would have had long and involved arguments.

    The funny part of it is, if we’d talked to Mohammed, he’d say, “Is that so? Oh, really? Ho-ho! Hey, what do you know!”

    And you’d say, “Yeah, yeah, you know, man isn’t his body. And just like you said, you know, he goes out of his head and so forth.”

    • Observer

      The funny part of this is, is if Lafayette had talked to Mohammed like that, Mohammed would have gutted him like a fish.

  • flyonthewall
    • anonsparrow

      Hands off my Bunker, bitches.

      • flyonthewall

        I hope I’m not the loud obnoxious self appointed mayor the author talks about. I’ve been called the 4yr old who doesn’t shut up, lol. That was funny

        • anonsparrow

          Censorship and Internet Control is the best bet for those who are still trying to control everything.

          I didn’t read that particular article but I get the gist.

          And yes, you come across as a whiny 4yo.

          • flyonthewall

            “And yes, you come across as a whiny 4yo.”

            oh you, you’re just saying that

            • anonsparrow

              Only because I like you.

        • you in the “mud pit”

    • Qbird

      oh! I very much hope not.

    • Qbird

      and, the comments below this article are very interesting indeed. Ha! Ironic, really.

      • flyonthewall

        ikr, did you see mine there? 🙂

        • Qbird

          no, still reading… will find a Mayor tho, eh?!

        • Qbird

          this you?!

          • flyonthewall

            bingo!

    • anonsparrow

      I used to get my haircut while listening to NPR news. Liked it a lot.

      Good interviewers, good guests.

      But like most things these days it’s losing its integrity.

      Oh well, just up your own integrity and make up the difference.

    • People do not only come for the article, they come for the comments! So bye bye 33 mill hit’s

    • BosonStark

      Okay, the article is about NPR axing their comments section to stories, and they think all major media should follow suit. They say it kills conversation, instead of fostering it.

      What? How does not being able to comment on a story foster conversation if you can’t even have a say? Without comments, there will be no conversation, and often no correction of mistakes, some small, some big, by journalists. Plus, people can always elect to just ignore the comments if they wish.

      Even on sites with the worst comments, loaded with ads about how to earn $50,000 a week etc., often sometimes someone will write something which is informative, and more interesting that the article itself, or something that enhances the article.

      • Teegeeack AV Club Secretary

        NPR discovered most of their readers do not comment. Less than 1 percent. NPR had already discovered the majority of their commentators weren’t there for conversation or to point out interesting nuances in the story. The comments were there to push a conservative, hateful, often racist agenda. In other words, it was a cesspool. For whatever reason, comments on news sites are usually cesspools offering nothing of value.

        The choice was to either spend money on hiring moderators to clean things up, or leave the cesspool in place with NPR taking the heat, or close it up and let people talk elsewhere at someone else’s expense. Since there is no shortage of places to talk online, NPR made the right call.

    • DoveAlexa

      Sadly, most people running these sites don’t know that there have been systems to MODERATE comments for decades. Just the usual news website comments sections are a free-for-all. Every normal forum I’ve ever been to has people (moderators, obviously) who can delete the porn, suspend people having tantrums and ban people who just want to be poo-flinging monkies. They also set pretty clear and extensive groundrules for behaviour, which they will quote from while they ban you.
      Also, no, this is not censorship. Free speech just means the government can’t silence you, it does not prevent normal citizens (of countries not your own, as well) from making you face the consequences of your actions.
      On youtube, there are several channels who turn off commenting on their videos, and instead direct people who wish to discuss the video to a seperate forum. You don’t need to choose between complete silence and a free for all.

    • noseinabk
  • BosonStark

    These would make real-life talking points for an interfaith event:

    What to do when members or prospective members read unflattering truths on the Internet about our beliefs, practices, behavior, history, founders, or leaders, and stop believing some of our craziest and holiest bullshit. We’ve never had to deal with this before to this magnitude, and it’s a big problem.

    If YouTube and other websites aren’t bad enough, people can find access to books which are critical of our religion or practices, books by apostates, and they are much easier to find than ever before in history. Before these books could be banned, burned, or stolen from libraries, but what do we do now, especially when they get made into popular movies or documentaries?

    How to deal with declining membership when facts and information are easily accessible on the Internet, and people are seeking answers to their questions on the Internet instead of from parents, religious leaders, or following what others in a religious group do.

    For years, sometimes centuries, we controlled people with our religious traditions, blind faith, and bogus threats of eternal damnation and suffering, if they didn’t believe what we believe in, and do as we say. What do we do now, that young people are more interested in their lives now than their lives hereafter, and their parents are no longer their primary source of information about religion? The Internet has opened people up to a much wider world, which causes them to question religion, including the one in which they were raised.

    Filthy, lying apostates — ignore them or destroy them?

    • anonsparrow

      Just keep exposing and let the chips fall where they may.

      The American public, in my opinion, has become so despondent and so oblivious, that it’s hard to hold sacred our documents like the US Constitution.

      Whatever, I’m resolved to let then chips fall where they may.

      And if all hell should break loose and my neighbor looks at me and says “How could this happen?” – I’ll say “Well duh.”

  • Swedish newspaper Hallandsposten profiles Mariette Lindstein, wife of Dan Koon (who co-wrote Ron Miscavige’s “Ruthless”). Mariette has written three novels based on her 25 years in Scientology. In her latest book, the leader of her fictional cult is sentenced to prison, where he attempts to rebuild the sect and take revenge on the disillusioned cult member who exposed him.

    Mariette’s first novel just won the Crimetime Gotland prize for best debut novel. “The book is impossible to put down… the documentary-like feeling makes the book stand out on the crowded crime fiction shelf. The author writes about a closed world in a way that is extremely credible and fascinating.”

  • nottrue
    • jazzlover

      I’m really starting to think she’s so lonely that she actually likes being trolled.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        WHAT, Krustie lonely!!? How could $cn’s favorite attack Schnauzer ever be lacking for company?

        Speaking of $cn celebs, when was the last time the cherch recruited someone who’s an actual big name public figure? Seems to me that all those very fashion/trend conscious folks have a very finely tuned sense (the 60th perceptic perhaps?) for what’s hip and what’s not.

        And judging by their failure to hook and net any big celeb fish in quite awhile, $cn is def NOT the coolest religion in the world.

        In fact, the ones that they have landed seem to be keeping their heads down and staying out of sight…so much for BIG Being Tom putting ethics in *like POW* on everyone around him, huh?

        And speaking of getting ethics put in, you just know all that talk of DM + evil minions drinking scotch and yucking it up over Tom’s supposedly private auditing confessions concerning his sex life has got to have gotten back to him, even if he didn’t read the book or see the doc. And I can just imagine how that little withhold pulling session went 😉 Or perhaps Tom just said screw it, I’ll just make myself scarce, these idiots need me more than I need them.

        And that’s for sure, $cn definitely needs its celebs way more than they need it! Let’s hope they can just hold that thought and stay away in droves!

        • jazzlover

          The last one I’m aware of is that Latin American actor. His name escapes me at the moment. But you’re right – nobody famous is beating down the door these days.

          • Harpoona Frittata

            See, even with that hint I can’t recall his name either, even though I’m pretty sure that I must have heard about him too.

            Making association with $cn the kiss of death for celebrity’s careers should be Job 1 around here 😉

            • jazzlover

              LOL. If they’re reading, I’m sure they’ve gotten the hint by now 🙂

            • scottmercer

              Cruise was probably the last BIG “get”for them, and that was 30 years ago, now. Clearly there were a few others after that, (even some that weren’t Second Gen), but NONE on the order of Cruise. (And Scientology had been around 30 years at that point…basically growing for 30 years then stagnant and shrinking for the last 30.)

  • Shanester

    I was thinking that OSA had chosen its dupes carefully, but then I remembered how Scientology works. It was probably more like the typically voluminous Central Files of any Org: send out reams of material until you finally find some sucker who bites. Just like email spammers or telemarketer scammers, the cult keeps trying. It’s a wide net Scientology casts. Some suckers are gonna get caught.

    I wonder how many hundreds of religious figures OSA contacted before they were able to “safepoint” these gentlemen. And notice they are all men. Notice as well that most of them represent minority religions (to put it mildly. Zoroastrians, anybody?).

    Most of the faiths represented here are genuine human attempts at spiritual enlightenment. My opinions on these genuine spiritual philosophies would be counter-productive to present, so I’ll spare you the negativity. It does make me sad that these folks would get fooled by Scientology and, worse, fail to have the intellectual curiosity to explore the true nature of their host.

    • Juicer77

      You have a right to disagree with those who believe in spiritual philosophies. I agree with you that it’s sad these folks didn’t do the research.

      • Shanester

        Hmm, just re-read what I wrote and realized that “opinion” line does come off pretty snidely. I usually just keep my mouth shut about religion. I grew up in Scientology and was poisoned by the experience, such that it’s impossible for me to take any religion seriously. A stranger pointed out to me a few months ago that I was much too young to be so bitter. I wondered what she meant, both in the youth and bitterness department. But she was in her 80s, so I guess everybody was young to her. I wondered out loud how anybody could be in their 80s and not be bitter, and she said few bitter people made it to their 80s. It was a weird conversation to have in a hair salon while I waited for my own (rather sharp) grandmother to finish up her curls.

        It did get me thinking, though. Do I come off as bitter? I hope not. I don’t say much, but when I do, I have started to think more about how it sounds to others.

        I guess the bitterness still slips through now and then. I’m aware of it now, at least. Just need to figure out how to be more positive.

        • Juicer77

          Honestly I didn’t read it as bitter. Just an opinion different than mine. 🙂

          • Shanester

            OK, thanks! Sorry for my unloading. In a weird mood today. Gonna go take a walk.

            • Qbird

              Hey Darewick ~ you’re all good. 🙂 Have a fine walk!
              You will see something beautiful perhaps?!

              :::i love walks too:::

              also, I have not found you to be bitter… by your comments.

        • gtsix

          I’m not a bitter person, just massively sarcastic. I hold no mystical beliefs.

          And it is the final point you make that is so true: how can you not learn about whom you ally yourself? You are leaders of your faith sect… how would not ensure the groups you ally with are groups you would want around your faithful ?

          • Harpoona Frittata

            I’m massively sarcastic and committed to serious Joking & Degrading so that I don’t become bitter 😉

            Looking into the heart of darkness for too long without some serious comic relief can do bad things to you. It’s very much like the secondary trauma that folks working with those who’ve been directly traumatized – by war, urban violence, domestic abuse, etc. – often experience. Humor is an effective antidote, at least for me.

          • I’ve seen how the higher levels of a benign religious orgaisation (The Church of England) operates. With some honourable exceptions (the Rabbi seems to be one) the kinds of people who attend these events are politicians operating within a subculture populated by religous professs. Everything that they resolve is abstract, and vague.

            The groupthink that dominates this situuation is that tolerance is paramount and they don’t question this, even when they rub shoulders with intolerant religions, as long as they are considerate enough to be polite on the day.

            The people to talk to are those who have a congregation to look after, and don’t want to be politicians. They address these issues, when they are brought to their attention, because they are commmitted to looking after those placed under their care.

        • OOkpik

          No, you don’t come off as bitter, at least not to me.

          I don’t really see the point of communicating at all if you have to sanitize the daylights out of everything you say or write. Might as well plaster on a fake smile and wax enthusiastic about the damnest things like you were undoubtedly forced to do in Scientology. Enough of that shit, right?

        • Jo

          I didn’t think your post was snidely, or bitter. I quite enjoyed it.

        • No you don’t. You typicaly have interesting things to say, so keep doing whatever it is you have been doing.

    • Qbird

      CO$ ~

  • All these folks should get real jobs.

  • so the earth is hollow? now why didn’t i think of that!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Why no Nation of Islam representative at this Interfaith event? We know how the NOI loves the Jews. The Rabbi & NOI could make for some very “ecclesiastical” discussions. And speaking of the NOI, here are some photos of the latest FLAG graduations…

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      There were no Pastafarians or Jedis there either, which I thought was weird.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Hey!

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Hello Eivol. Nice meeting you in London. It was a fun evening 🙂

    • Harpoona Frittata

      It’s hard to say enough bad about the NOI, and especially about Minister Farrakhan’s mega whacked views, but I gotta say, this lady’s get up just about perfectly compliments the gaudy Flag stage setting. All she really needs there are rays of light shooting out of her headgear to make it a perfect ensemble 😉

  • PappeKak
  • Jeb Burton

    Being agnostic, I think inter faith meetings are necessary, and can lead to peace. But when you have cults involved it is a joke. I think most of these religious leaders did this in good faith and were ignorant of Scientology. But come on, you are supposed to be religious scholars.

  • Off topic. Somehow Cincinnati today has zero humidity, warm sunny day and a cool breeze all at the same time. It’s like winning a lottery. Hope everyone having a good time too.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Sounds like Malibu, Calif. 280 days per year. 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Soak it in while it lasts!

  • Lousy Ratatouille
  • Does anyone know if this works? F5

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Dunno, but it has me thinking about the story of DM and his people puppets.

      • If someone would make a doll like DM i would buy it

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    It looks like “Trump surrogate Kirstie Alley” is the new queen of the Obama-hating loonies: http://truthfeed.com/actress-kirstie-alley-shreds-obama-for-his-louisiana-apathy/18181/
    (refresh)

    • Science Doc

      In point of fact the Governor asked Obama and Trump to stay away while the actual crisis was still in effect so the state could focus on relief. Trump couldn’t resist the photo op.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I don’t have a dog in this fight. I just find it amusing that Kirstie has gone from being known as an Emmy-winning actress to a loud-mouth dingbat who can’t keep from shooting her mouth off about everything, including things she knows next to nothing about. She’s the perfect poster child for the LRH tech.

    • Interested2

      Oy said above re krusty… And trump. God forbid he becomes the most powerful person in the world. Ww3 …

    • Anony-Lurker

      1 Trump was in Louisiana for a photo op, which took exactly 49 seconds. He was seen unloading small packages of Play-doh (which he sent down). It is clearly seen on the video. I know myself, if I was in a natural disaster, the first thing I’d want is modeling clay.

      2 Obama was asked not to come until the situation was more stabilized. The governor did not want all the advance men and secret service people. The governor announced this himself. He also asked Trump not to come.

      3 Kirstie is a total idiot and probably always has been a total idiot. This is aside from her being a Scientologist.

      4 It almost seems pointless to even make fun of Kirstie, it’s a waste of bandwidth and she is totally irrelevant to everything.

      • JJ

        The key word is irrelevant…

  • Interested2

    Yikes, if krusty backs trump…….us in Europe are scared shitless that he will win. The man is dangerous.

    • Krusty is a danger to society as we know it!

    • Anony-Lurker

      You Europeans need not worry. Trump never had a chance of winning and at this point, Clinton campaign people are packing up and going home (metaphorically speaking of course).

      • Interested2

        Perhaps. I hope so. For the rest of the world. But example of the unexpected… Brexit. No one, even those wanting to leave thought the referendum would have a majority of 4% almost voting to leave.

  • Mockingbird

    OT John Mappin blocked me on Facebook !

    For anybody that doesn’t know John Mappin put up a Facebook post condemning Stephen Hawking for saying faster than light (FTL) travel isn’t possible.

    John and a bunch of Scientologists insulted Stephen Hawking and said he is foolish for only believing in MEST. They regurgitated some Hubbard quotes on light moving at different speeds. They called Stephen Hawking a degraded being and various other insults.

    I said that if someone wanted to claim FTL travel can be accomplished the burden of proof is on them. I also told them that if recall of whole track space opera was authentic then the advanced technology they describe could be recreated.

    John Mappin several days later commented that the Cause Resurgence Rundown was recovered from Ron Hubbard’s whole track research and delivered everyday at Flag.

    I of course looked up the Cause Resurgence Rundown and refreshed my memory. That’s been described as running around a track for days or weeks. It’s derived from the running program. A person who fell out of favor with the wrong exec could reportedly be made to run around for hours in the hot sun until their teeth fell out of their head.

    So, I went back and commented on John Mappin’s Facebook post that running around for days or weeks is no proof of the recovery of advanced technology. It is not a FTL ship or infinite energy source or anything hi tech.

    He blocked me ! 😂

    Wouldn’t running around a track for days convince you that Scientology is real and valdiate the whole track space opera ! 😂

    • Blocking is the new Disconnection!

      • Mockingbird

        But, isn’t communication the universal solvent ! I was willing to communicate with him !

        • 2 way communication was a misunderstanding, like when LRH started a lecture saying “Today we will discus…” and did a 2 hour monolog. I have never experienced communication in Scientology, only orders!

      • Mockingbird

        He really thought saying Hubbard recovered the Cause Resurgence Rundown from the whole track and that people do it every day at Flag would prove the validity of Hubbard’s past life recall. 😂 Come on !

        • I take it you don’t believe him 🙂

          • Mockingbird

            Somehow running around a track is not convincing as proof of super advanced space faring civilizations. Call me a skeptic.

    • beauty for ashes

      OI VEY!!!! John Mappin is an idiot. Stephen Hawking is a fool for believing in MEST? I give you props for trying to reason with his Escher staircase beliefs.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      OMG!!!!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    A clam is posting on social media that the new AOSH ANZO is now scheduled to have its Grand Opening on the 4th and they are trying to fill 5000 seats. They must be counting on a large Taiwanese turn-out. Do any Aussie Bunkerites know if this is located in an area accessible to wog cameras?

  • Baby

    Sweet Jesus.. Non-Scientologist speakers :

    DO YOUR FREAKIN HOMEWORK.. It is 2016 .. The internet is here..There are books, movies, TV programs..

    Sickening. YOU People are ignorant. Do a little just a smidge of investigation ..They used you for Validation.
    For PR.. They don’t give a shit about you.. You were Suckers..

    Poke your head out of your own Religion and see what is going on with the ” Fake ” ones.. Good Lord. f5

    • beauty for ashes

      We should all be more like meerkats ! <3

      • I miss “Meerkat Manor”.

        • FredEX2

          I used to watch that too! So cute.

          • It was like a soap opera.

        • beauty for ashes

          I never got to see it. But I’m sorry Shorpy, did it get cancelled?

      • Baby

        Most of the us on the Bunker are..hahahhaha

        A Nosey lot we are.. I was just thinking of you honey..

        • beauty for ashes

          We are a nosey bunch:) I’ve thought of you too quite a bit. I hope you are feeling well. MWAH! MWAH! <3<3<3

          • Baby

            I’m ok.. ( Thanks boo) Mwah..Mwah.. to you darlin.. <3<3<3

      • MereCatWatcher

        Well I should be.

        • beauty for ashes

          I typed in merekat first, and thought of you! They should have meerkat week, just like shark week, don’t you think?

          • MereCatWatcher

            Definitely. I liked the cat at attention watching with the meerkats. They are kind of other worldly.

  • beauty for ashes

    Everyone seemed a bit fuzzy on the meaning of the event. And none or most hadn’t seen Going clear. Is there a correlation there? People who don’t ask questions and just say yes, end up as speakers at the events. To bad we don’t know who said no.
    Better yet, I’d like to know who said, “Are you fucking kidding me?”

  • outraged

    GREAT topic Tony.
    WHY in the world would any spiritual leader/guide/teacher support a sociopath.
    (rhetorical question)

    • Baby

      Rod Keller…O.R.

      • outraged

        Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How are you cutie???
        (who is RK?)

        • Baby

          Hi O.R. … xoxo .. Hanging in.. ( in between naps..ha)

          Rod Keller is a very respected critic of Scn..for years. A true warrior who hosts Tony’s blog on Sundays.. ; D

  • Kestrel

    O/T: The Freewinds is in Aruba and docked so that the gangway is visible to the Port Aruba webcam. I got to watch two busloads of passengers get onto the ship and then maybe three busloads got off. That’s not a lot of passengers.

    • aquaclara

      Beautiful. Thanks, Kestrel.

  • MM

    “Do I have to answer these questions?”

    Regarding the good Archdeacon’s reluctance to answer Rod’s questions, here are a couple interesting additional data points which seem to indicate that things are not always as simple and straight-forward as they look on the surface (“dupes, shills, & useful idiots”, to paraphrase some of the comments). I’m not going to pretend to know Mr Chulyan’s thoughts, but I will say that if I were in his shoes, I’d probably not answer Scn-related questions to a stranger on the phone, either.

    “Manuk Chulyan began his life in 1985 at CHA Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center. He was born here, in the neighborhood hospital closest to the home of his parents, immigrants to Hollywood from Armenia. HPMC would be the same place he began his service to healthcare
    […]
    Now, Chulyan has joined the medical staff at HPMC, after opening his clinic in late 2014 around the corner from the hospital.
    […]
    Chulyan also focuses on spiritual healing, as he serves as Archdeacon at Saint John Garabed Armenian Apostolic Church in Hollywood.”
    Source: CHA Biomedical, http://www.chamc.co.kr/media/magazine_detail.aspx?num=231&page=6483

    “the neighborhood hospital closest to the home of his parents” – this sounds like “really, really close”, seeing that apparently every other building in the vicinity is, or at some time has been, a hospital. Saint John Garabed Armenian Apostolic Church is located at 1614 N Alexandria Ave, less than a mile north-west of HPMC ( http://www.stgarabedchurch.org/contact.html ). Also, the neighborhood just a couple blocks to the west of HPMC is apparently called “Little Armenia”.

    So one might say that the area between “Little Armenia”, HPMC, and Saint John Garabed is Archdeacon Chulyan’s community. F5 for what is sitting, and has been occupying a whole city block since before Mr Chulyan was even born, in the dead center of this community:

  • Observer
    • Kestrel

      If that little dog needs a name, I nominate, “Upskirt.”

      • Observer

        F5

      • Juicer77

        I admit it… I snickered…

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Doggiemagiktricks!

      Treat-over-here-nope-over-here-nope-over-here-nope-over-here…

    • Juicer77

      GIMME DAT PUPPEH

  • Commodore H. McCringleberry

    I’m dog sitting for a friend while she and her boyfriend are in Central America. They have an emergency-only cell phone number (which almost certainly costs as much to call as it does to text) for, you know, emergencies. This friend is not tech savvy, so this afternoon I get a text from her. Emergency? You decide. Text reads: “EMRGNCY. FRGT 2 DVR OLYMPC CLOSNG CERMNY. PLZ DVR!” She’s certainly going to be pissed when she gets the bill for the $47.00 text message. I’m tempted to not record the closing ceremony as it will lead to a “teachable moment” in which I can explain both that the Closing Ceremony will be available to view on the internet for free until the end of time, and also that it costs absurd Scientology money to text from a 3rd world country regardless of whether you do it in complete words, weird abbreviations, or morse code. Or I could just DVR the damn thing. . .

    • Kestrel

      How much will it cost her for you to acknowledge her request and provide periodic updates?

  • Vaquera

    Tampa Org. Breaks my heart. f5

    • Kestrel

      I have no words…

    • Harpoona Frittata

      What’s next, an anti-Alzheimers rundown, featuring a program of hyperventilating to get more oxygen to the brain and a special diet that contains the same ingredients that go into Purina’s Bright Minds dog food mix for senior dogs!?

      • Bo

        Shortly before I got out of the cult, I was doing some auditing for a new mission in our city. They sent me over to see a lady with Alzheimers and her son who was desparate that his mother be cured. The woman didn’t know where she was, what season it was, or much else besides her own name. She couldn’t hold a thought long enough to answer a question. I felt so bad for her and her son. I knew if I told him that I thought auditing would help her, he would have bought it at whatever cost. I knew that telling him that I didn’t think she was a candidate for auditing and was sorry that there wasn’t anything Scientology could do for her would cost the mission a reg cycle. I did the right thing. The son was devastated, but said that he suspected that. I had completely forgotten about that until your comment about Alzheimers. I was persona non grata at that mission after that and they actually continued trying to get that woman in for auditing. I remained UTR for a while after that, but I think that was the last thing I ever did as a scientologist. Such dirt bags!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Dirt bags is right. It’s not a big leap from claiming auditing will cure mental illness to claiming it will cure Alzheimers.

        • aquaclara

          You did a good thing. And yes, I agree with you on the dirt bag thing.

          So glad you got out.

          • Bo

            Me too! Thanks for your reply. I mourn the loss of the 13 years I was involved, but have been lovin life since then.

        • Juicer77

          Bless you, Bo. Glad you are free now.

          • Bo

            Thank you. I don’t think a day goes by that I don’t appreciate that freedom…and it’s been over 30 years.

        • The last thing you did as a ‘super-human’ Scientologist was an admirable thing for a human being to do. We mere humans are proud to have you among us.

          • Bo

            I don’t know if I ever considered myself super human, but I was very arrogant because I knew I had found a way to become that. I had worked in a state hospital on a geriatric unit just prior to getting into the cult. So I knew what Alzheimers looked like, even though it wasn’t called that at the time. I was so disgusted when the mission holder asked me to do that. The son, who wasn’t a scientologist, had contacted the mission and wanted an auditor to come out and evaluate his mom. He wanted to know from an auditor if auditing could help her. I was very honest with him and I don’t think he ever succumbed to all the phone calls and regging he must have gotten. I very quietly got out the cult after that and I don’t think they really cared because I hadn’t gotten very far up the “bridge to total freedom.” Thank you for your kind words.

      • It’s just as well that Hubbard made himself the exclusive ‘Source’ of all new revelations in Scientology and never passed that status on to another. If he had have done, we might have had a new prophet doing exactly that.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          It sure is! If, for example, senior teck terminal, David Mayo, had succeeded Elron, then additional upper OaTy levels undoubtedly would have been cranked out, thereby keeping the “oh, that’s gets handled on OT ___” carrot-on-a-stick scam going indefinitely.

          Because lil davey is definitely no tech wizard (with the Lisa McPherson case as the best example of that), all the pretenders to Elron’s throne can do now is recycle and re-package old material. Although the possibility of lil davey + evil minions getting together and attesting to having been contacted psychically by Elron on the Pure Theta channel and been given new OaTy level material from beyond the grade shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. That’s because once you’ve gotten folks to chump for the space opera business and spend hundreds of hour in telepathic self-exorcism activities, it’s only one small additional leap of faith to believe in channeling Elron.

          • In the past I’ve suggested that OT could be informed of typewritten pages that have ‘miraculously’ appeared in one of Ron’s Office, offering new revelations (included the identity of his anointed one).

            It’s not going ever going to happen though. Miscavige does not have the originality to write a convincing shopping list, and too many Scientologists are now conditioned to believe that ‘the tech’ is utterly unchangeable.

            At this late stage the CofS can’t afford another exodus of members, because they can’t replace them. They have to stay conservative.

            If they don’t change, the organisation will collapse. If they do change, it will collapse sooner.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              Hahaha…for them, a lose now AND lose later; for us, a win-win proposition.

              I totally agree, but exactly how long it will take for the dam to finally break is any one’s best guess. All one can do is to work hard to make sure that the collapse of lil davey’s Stalinist regime collapses as soon as possible!

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      It looks like it probably took the poor fellow 20 minutes just to get out of his chair! They really are going all out to recruit the senior citizens. Social Security, pension and disability checks are the gift that keeps on giving and the CO$ sees a good revenue stream. Ugh!

      • Juicer77

        ^^^ It’s nauseating.

    • Liberated

      Poor guy. If he only knew the truth.

      • JJ

        If he is lucky, he won’t live long enough to find out, and maybe his issue will find out before the money is all gone?

        • Juicer77

          Sad but true. 🙁

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        At his age, he may not even know his name. Ecclesial elder abuse 🙁

    • ReallyMGM

      Isn’t Tampa where there was the photo of the child finishing his Purif recently? Just UGH!!!

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Fucking soulless vultures. They will prey on anyone.
      Must be nice to have no shame, empathy, conscience or morals at all.

  • JJ

    Why should we let scam artists in other countries steal money from our senior citizens?! We can fleece our elders just fine thank you very much! The Golden Age Of Scamming Grandpa Tech.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    How humanitarian – I know we can help you, so “send the check”. Yeesh!
    (refresh)

    • Qbird

      Oh my goodness! Zowza ~
      These auditors will KAYAK to get TO you!!!
      :::just send some money… a check will DO:::
      Does Scn., Inc. make waterproof e-meters?!

    • iampissed

      Thanks for that Dice…Nice

    • Baby

      “A short retirement urges a sweet return”
      – John Milton

      “It’s about freaking time”
      – Captain Howdy
      ……………………………………………….

      Got a little Verklempt when I saw this..

      Howdy you are so missed.. love you Baby

    • aquaclara

      Thanks for posting this. I remember being so excited Tony was back. The stories started breaking once, even twice a day, so quickly. Alas, how did I not comment on these breaking articles????

      The suspense and worry before we got Tony back was intense. The fear that we had lost this community was pretty big. There was an interim site for all of us sans Tony.

      And I am verklempt seeing Captain Howdy and Sherb and Mrs Libnish and oh so many virtual friends back then in my mostly-lurking-and-totally-in-awe days.

      Blowing kisses to The Hole Does Not Exist and Sherbet and Poison Ivy and Chuck and and and and….all of the Bunker stalwarts who have made such an impression on this forum.

      You’re all there, you know it. John P and Michael Tilse and The Next Mrs Tom Cruise and XenuBarb and DouglasD and so many more.

      • We could upvote back in time 🙂

        • aquaclara

          😉 yes, we can! Sneaky.

      • Davka

        It was a very exciting day 😊

    • OOkpik

      Thanks, Dice. That was a great day! Tony and the gang were back! It is so interesting to look back be reminded of who was there at the time…and sad to see who isn’t here now.
      I love the Bunker.

  • Just because people are watching the olympic and nothing is in the mainstream news, Israel is bombing Gaza right now!

    • Robert Eckert

      Gaza launches rockets every week. Israel hits the launch sites when they can identify them, which happens about once a month. Nothing is new here.

  • MaxSpaceman

    OT. Big Being Making Movies Halts M. I. 6 Pre-Production at Paramount Pictures.

    About money. Now shooting re-boot of Universal Pictures “The Mummy” franchise, with a nice back-end $$$ participation, Cruise looking for same from Paramount, for the 6th MI installment to start shooting 2017.

    “Sources tell THR that one of the contentious points is Cruise’s back-end profit participation, with the actor looking to match or exceed what he is getting paid by Universal for starring in The Mummy, which he is currently shooting in London. Mummy is a pivotal movie for Universal, which is looking to launch a cinematic franchise and has hinged plenty on Cruise’s star power.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/tom-cruise-mission-impossible-6-921148

    • aquaclara

      Hi, Max! Love this link- thank you. I keep hoping that at some point, TC’s supposed halo will come crashing to the floor. His “star” power is delusional and diluted by real stars, both of the actual planetary type and the Hollywoody type.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Hi there:)
        Universal completely disagrees with your take on Cruise’s star power being delusional, aqua :-/
        They giving him a big big deal to re-boot The Mummy.

        • aquaclara

          Universal is oh so desperate. An aging, culty, plastic, used-up ex-spouse of several lovely wives, he is getting a paycheck simply for his Botoxed, karmic, intergalactic, couch-jumping talents, which is to say, for pretty much nothing at all.

          I hope the movie CLEARLY sucks. 😉

    • Baby

      Hey Max..

      Cruise.. ” There is more to life than a little money you know..” You know, like Suri.. You remember Suri don’t cha? I hope Scientology keeps you warm at night Cruise.

      If you had a conscience you would be ashamed. But the only shame you feel is that Suri didn’t serve in the Sea Org. I will continue to Black ball every Movie ..every project you are involved in.. I would PFFFFFFFt in your direction. f5

      • Liberated

        Hi Baby, what I think is that DM has convinced Tommy boy being a dad is not his “hat”.
        It’s the mother’s responsibility, you owe her nothing.
        He does everything else Davey says. Why not this?

        • Baby

          Ola Lib.. You are right.. What was I thinking.. Cruise lost his Critical Thinking Skills a long, long, long time ago..

          ( If he ever had them to start with..) sigh

      • Juicer77

        Here you go, Baby. 😉 f5

        • Baby

          hahahhaah what a cutie.. OMG.. funny Juice.. xo

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Let’s hope he’s a better mummy than he is a daddy.

    • It will flop because audiences are now quite cognizant of the fact that one can outrun a mummy.

      • Robert Eckert

        But what if the mummy runs with that choppy-arm motion?

        • I forgot about that.
          But I don’t think Tom is playing the mummy.

      • In the reboot, they might be able to move faster – after all, Daleks can now climb stairs.

  • Ella Raitch

    OT from the New Yorker. Narcissism is often discussed in reference to Scientology. The attached warns against the tendency to extensively see and pathologise narcissism…
    Jon Ronson raised similar issues in The Psychopath Test

    http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-happens-when-we-decide-everyone-else-is-a-narcissist?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits

    • Mockingbird

      My opinion is that if a shoe fits wear it. If a person displays narcissism then they may be narcissistic. If they are consistently narcissistic over a long period of time they are a narcissist.

      The whole issue to me is one of education. A good understanding of narcissism is a key as is being thorough in your analysis of a person. Additionally the cult of Scientology follows the patterns of influence a cult and mass movement does. Learning those and how they work and why prepares you to examine the cult members and ex members.

      I have extremely high confidence in stating Ron Hubbard was a narcissist. And that Scientology is a reflection of his twisted mind. Many members, but not all, take on qualities Hubbard himself had as they go deeper and deeper into Scientology.

      It’s not a gut reaction opinion of mine, but the consensus to be found in the work of Daniel Shaw who specializes in studies of traumatic narcissism as a relational system of abuse in cults and the work of Margaret Singer, Janja Lalich, Robert Jay Lifton and many others. Totalistic identity theory and several other ideas in psychology including cognitive dissonance theory support this.

      • Ella Raitch

        My issue is – what if you are wrong? And how have you treated this person in the meantime? There is a danger of labelling of someone as ‘other’ who then doesn’t deserve empathy or compassion, because they are different. I have been wrong many, many times in my life when I felt certain, when my observations have conformed to a pattern. And that is because my brain is wired to determine patterns (even to assume they are there when they aren’t).

        Note – the article isn’t talking about cult leaders, but, for example, individuals finding that their partner conforms to the label

        Added: I am aware in myself that once I understood that there is a phenomenon of psychopathy, or NPD, I started seeing instances….

        • Liberated

          What I can tell you from my own experience is—-trust your gut, it will never let you down.
          I was married to a narcissist for many years, he epitomized every single characteristic that are
          signs of this personality, every single one.
          He’s gone now and even though I’m pretty old, I feel like I’m just now living my own life.
          We bend over backwards ( we women especially) to give them the benefit of the doubt,
          and even then things just never work out right. The only thing I could count on from him is that
          he would always let me down, and he always did. Compulsive lying, blaming others for his mistakes, belittling me in public and on and on. There’s just to much to list, but when he stopped walking thru my door my life changed forever, and that’s when the real truth will hit you
          between the eyes like a ton of bricks, it just does.
          Just trust your inner most self.

          • MissCandle

            Powerful statement. Glad you are Liberated

        • Mockingbird

          You can always be wrong. But you have to use your best judgment. And I never told anyone to cut off empathy. That’s a different matter.

          People who are narcissistic and sociopathic are extremely dangerous. To let them harm people unchecked is terrible.

          However you determine it, if you are certain than you should act on it. People feeling it’s easier to not stir things up and let predators go is a major reason that they get away with a lot of the harm they inflict.

          If someone isn’t sure they can do the same thing they would if they weren’t sure about another subject – improve their education and investigate.

    • There is a wonderful, funny , Victorian book called “Three Men in a Boat”. It describes the adventures of three young Gentlemen (and their dog) on a trip rowing up the Thames.

      It opens with one of the characters coming upon a medical dictionary and idly reading it. Within the hour, he has concluded that he has every disease described therein. Sensibly, he decides that it’s probably time he took a holiday, and contacts his friends.

      When people first come across the diagnostic criteria in the various manuals for Psychiatrists it’s tempting to do the same – but to others.

      Laymen (like me) lack the training that provides the judgement to decide when the characteristics described in diagnostic criteria are extreme enough to warrant diagnosis. It’s too easy to dismiss the behavour of others by deciding that they are mentally ill, and stop listening to what they actually say.

      My perspective on Scientology is that the manipulation of members emerges naturally from the synthetic social situation in orgs – a situation where people are socially isolated and accept that they must conform to ‘higher authority’ at all times. In these situations perfectly sane (but stressed) people can do wierd things – but there is no reason to pathologise anyone.

      That said, I think a very good point is made here https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/malignant-narcissim-l-ron-hubbard-and-scientologys-policies-of-narcisstic-rage/ The trick is not to see it everywhere.

  • Robert Eckert
  • I was checking out Marco Rubio and Scientology connections. Bumped into this from March 2015.

    What the GOP can learn from the Church of Scientology
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/03/what_the_gop_can_learn_from_the_church_of_scientology.html

    What an idiot! Monkey’s Paw a–hole!

  • Sejanus

    What a bunch of absolute morons!
    Do a frigging internet search.
    Find out what you are taking part in.
    Stupidity and laziness…$cientology’s greatest allies

  • OOkpik

    When there’s nothing else shaking…

    • Juicer77

      Must be chilly where you are. 🙂 Not cool enough for a fire here just yet.

      • OOkpik

        Ah, there you are! Good morning, Juice.
        This is more like the one that runs 24/7 on TV during the Xmas holidays when pickin’s are slim. It won’t keep you warm. 🙂

  • What it look like

    A total and complete farce but then again isn’t all religion up to a point? People denying the science that scares them or makes them feel uncomfortable, while embracing the science that saves their butts from cancer. For me it is magical thinking or science. I am not saying I have a few magical thoughts about life and the world, but I keep them to myself. That being said, I know people from most religions and find them to be really kind decent people trying to do what they think is the right thing.