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Scientology will go after your kids with its quack ideas on drugs — even at a Christian school

bitinas

Rod Keller keeps an eye on social media for us, and this week he dives into another Scentology infiltration that was hiding in plain sight.

On October 19 Westside Christian High School held a drug education seminar. Westside is a small bible-based private school of about 250 students located in Tigard, Oregon, a suburb of Portland with about 50,000 residents. The presenter was John Bitinas, who is a Scientologist on staff at the Portland Ideal Org. The students were not told of his affiliation, only that he represented “Obstacle Champion LLC,” an entity that does not appear on the Oregon Secretary of State’s web site of registered corporations.

 
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School officials did not return emails or phone calls for comment, but students I spoke to were surprised to learn of his affiliation. “He spoke at a Christian school. I think he’s a Christian, is he not?” asked one. At last report Bitinas is a Course Supervisor at the org. In January, 2015 he attested to the state of Clear, meaning that he no longer has his own reactive mind.

 
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From 2007 to 2012, Bitinas served as Director of Drug Education at the Scientology-run drug rehab facility Narconon Arrowhead in Canadian, Oklahoma. In 2013 he served as Public Relations Officer, dealing with news that a flurry of lawsuits against Arrowhead were filed that year. The photo below shows Bitinas at a 2011 meeting of the Stillwater, Oklahoma Rotary Club, captioned “John Bitinas, center, provided an overview of the Narconon Arrowhead Rehabilitation Program, which has a 70 percent success rate with graduates of its unique drug and alcohol addiction treatment and recovery program.” Critics of Narconon dispute their claimed success rate.

 
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Photos of the Westside Christian event show that Bitinas is following in part the script of longtime Narconon staff member Bobby Wiggins.

 
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The presentation put on by Wiggins starts with getting the audience into “present time” through a brief series of commands, such as “Look at a person. Look at another person. Shake one person’s hand. Shake two people’s hands at the same time. Give one person a Hi-Five.” Here’s what that looks like in a video of the talk by Wiggins…

 
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And in the talk by Bitinas at Westside Christian. The drill is designed to prevent students from being stuck in the past, to take their attention off incidents in their “reactive minds”

 
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The presentation included a section on Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s theory of how drugs become stored in fatty tissue. From HCO Bulletin 27 March 1990 “The Purification Rundown: A Long-Range Detoxification Program”:

It has been said that in middle age and past middle age, a body’s ability to break down fat lessens. So here we have, apparently, a situation of beings who have toxic substances locked up in their body’s fatty tissue and the fatty tissue is not actually getting broken down, and so such toxic substances could accumulate.

The theory being presented is that drugs travel from the veins into fatty tissue, can be stored for years, and are released back into the blood during strenuous exercise or stress. This theory was criticized in a 2005 report by the California Department of Education as being inaccurate information and unfit for use in schools. Again, from the Bitinas presentation and the Wiggins video and script:

 
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Bitinas introduced the Emotional Tone Scale, a ranking of human emotions numbered and ranked based on desirability, and also a key theory in Scientology. A Westside Christian student told me “We all chose a partner and demonstrated the emotion we were given. The main point of the activity was to show us the different emotions that we can have because of drugs. He explained how one emotion led to another which led to another and so forth.” This Bobby Wiggins video discusses Narconon and Scientology’s belief that drugs can affect one’s position on the Tone Scale.

 
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Students responded positively to the presentation. “He was such a great speaker, and he was also very kind! I gave him a thank you and a handshake in the end, and he had a big smile on his face. It was fun and informative. Some of my friends said it was the best speaker we had that year so far, and I agree.”

Bitinas also gave a presentation this week to the Portland Pearl Rotary Club on drug abuse. The club posted it on their Facebook page, repeating the false information about drugs and fat cells.

 
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The drug stays in the body through stored fat cells for years. It is through the release of fat cells, that will re-release the drug into the blood stream and system, thus creating a cycle of addiction and stimulant depencency, even though the person has been clean for some time.

The Portland Ideal Org is hosting an event on November 3, “Cannabis: Education Before Use,” describing Scientology’s groups as “the largest non-governmental anti-drug education initiative on Earth.” The Portland Org is putting much effort into anti-drug “social reform” initiatives.

 
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The anti-drug push comes at a time of contraction for the Portland Org, as the nearby Ideal Mission of Lake Oswego closed its doors. The mission opened with a celebration in 2014.

 
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The mission was supported in large part by Portland businessman Yoav Gueron and his wife Anete, seen here at Scientology’s Fort Harrison Hotel in Clearwater, Florida.

 
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Sources report that funding from the Guerons dried up when Yoav was declared “PTS,” or a Potential Trouble Source. The couple has not left Scientology, and it’s not known what might have caused the declaration.

 
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— Rod Keller

 
——————–

Yesterday, this happened in Los Angeles

Leah Remini is a troublemaker.

 
leah_remini_sps

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on October 30, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Stephanie Loving

      oh that’s awful. ack is right

    • Mockingbird

      I just feel sorry for the poor dupes.

    • kemist

      I don’t know about youse, but I’d have a hard time keeping calm when seeing the bill I get for making a damn fool of myself…

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    WHAT???
    Is this for real? Does anyone in the Bunker from New Zealand have information about this? Here is her Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004508563090
    (refresh)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/48eb035ea65320a52194c058fbd4ca465aee96a5040eca0851dad449b96d5f80.png

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “GO HARD ME OR GO HOME” Hold on now, folks could take that just so very wrong, or…

      In any event, being a $cilon is a disqualification for any elected office to my mind. There first allegiance is always to the cult, not to the public.

      • Mockingbird

        Porn direction !!? What have I got myself into !!!

  • madame duran

    Hubbard quote:

    It has been said that in middle age and past middle age, a body’s ability to break down fat lessens. So here we have, apparently, a situation of beings who have toxic substances locked up in their body’s fatty tissue and the fatty tissue is not actually getting broken down, and so such toxic substances could accumulate.

    …told to a group of high school students who aren’t “middle age or past middle age”. No matter…BS still needs to be pushed, Purifs recommended, cult money to be made. Lucrative quackery at its finest.

    • ExCult.Jan

      So they’re supposed to think, ‘my parents are screwed, but I still have a chance if I sign up’?

    • Chee Chalker

      ‘It has been said’
      Nothing like solid facts and good research to back up a claim!

      It has been said that L. Ron Hubbard was a madman and David Miscavige has 4 inch lifts in his shoes.

      • Kestrel

        Yes, that has been said.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Cat Preclears? Leave that poor kitty alone! SMH

    PHOTO CAPTION – “Cat Preclears – DOG Preclears ? You name it !! But we do specialize in
    HUMANS ! Nothing like a good assist to relax you and help you feel better !”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5dcf5c16603d8ffcce10de8f43a1f3a6b37854a434f1e29ac6ae5996c3effea2.png

    • beauty for ashes

      yep you just pet a kitteh to sleep. congratulations! either that, or he’s doing the old human trick of feigning sleep to get you to leave him alone!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I think they forgot to tell the cat that petting is free but touch assists cost $$$. Fur is gonna fly when kitty gets the bill for this!

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Ahhhh, lovely. I have the entire house to myself. Peace and harmony reign. Not a sound stirs within or without, and that is the way I intend for things to remain.

    F5

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7f0c6bcc5526ee6c36c88fadc7767ba686afeccbb517005eae74d22fac717f12.jpg

    • i would do this πŸ™‚
      ETA: Ohh you did this.. ha ha.. i need a sign like that on my door.

    • $cnmonkeyrob$

      Why monkey endeavours to be several thousand miles (literally) from Blighty around this weekend. Can’t stand the ‘traditionally’ (hah!) enforced extortion of confectionary with menaces from complete strangers by children (and with an implicit license [for them] to behave like entitled yobbos)… will try your method next year, slightly cheaper and probably just as effective!;)[ETA]

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        I wish it were mine, but it’s not; I borrowed the photo from a friend. So funny.

        Have a happy trip! See you when you get back πŸ™‚

        • $cnmonkeyrob$

          Does it work to keep the sugar extortionists from the door of your friend?Thanks-Looking forward to seeing you soon πŸ™‚

    • Dreams come true. Fuck Off is a nice touch.

    • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

      Snickers

      • Kestrel

        Payday

    • Kid Kat

      I’m gonna get me one of those pumpkins! Ha!

  • MaxSpaceman

    Ah– “Yesterday, this happened in Los Angeles”

    looks fantastic !!

  • BosonStark

    All these presentations are just a Scientology member’s way of saying gud greif, I’m in a cult and I can’t get out. I can’t even spell. Halp!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    The CO$ & creepy stalking go together like LRH & bad teeth πŸ™
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cfcf0cf0f86659c3ad24933940202d442459f2e696812cf8c8a272ac7f39ca04.png

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Sent it to Tony, maybe he can turn it into a story.

      • Kestrel

        Maybe he can deduct the trip to Hawaii as a business expense when he goes after the story.

  • FredEX2

    Every now and then Martha would become so excited by her super powers as a new OTVIIIIII that she couldn’t help but suddenly exteriorize…and scare the children.
    F5
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0e593c838ca008c99bcceafafd24a35b40618390e02afb49382fb47cc3a6b2e7.jpg

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      In the movies, that creature is called a Xenomorph. . . Xenumorph!!! There, I fixed it.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • iampissed

      MC1R = Trouble Maker

  • FredEX2

    For Sherry, …Halloween is an especially scary time when she found it difficult to tell just who’s the ‘SP’ and who’s the Scientologist …because everyone looks alike in their costumes afterall.
    F5
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/66dca7adf6d52e3ac870b8ece4738afb54e76e7916e68348854959f9f5c86bd9.jpg costumes.

  • madame duran

    Re-posting…in case anyone missed the new countdown from yesterday.

    Every day, OSA. EVERY. DAMN. DAY.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20161129T22&p0=179&msg=Leah+Remini%3A+Scientology+%26+The+Aftermath+%28docuseries%29&font=slab&csz=1

  • dungeon master

    My invitation to the party in LA yesterday must have gotten lost in the mail.. ::-( jelly

    • iampissed

      I was thinking the same thing.

    • We didn’t have enough pizza anyway. No biggie!

  • Speed of particles determines power. Heh.

  • He spelled grief wrong. Some educator.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Oh dear… it looks like the “Body Registrar Division II” at the Atlanta Ideal Org is having a hard time staying awake!
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6aa33ff8db3a3678c36f3222a22cc1a90abafd217c8ec80d6e7db0aa4163a73f.png

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      That poor man. He looks like he could fall over at any moment. Go home and get some sleep; pointless hell will still be there in the morning.

      • Mockingbird

        Pointless hell – what a great description for Scientology staff !

    • They hypnotized him!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    The review(s) are in!
    (refresh)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/68188640bd80a8f4a56590f0470b25a76935438969e163a8a8ae3c93cfffe701.png
    GO unindicted co-conspirator for Snow White, Arte Maren has a book of poetry for sale on Amazon – “Celebration: A Spiritual Fantasy” https://www.amazon.com/Celebration-Spiritual-Fantasy-Arte-Maren/dp/0692378642#customerReviews

    “A ‘spiritual fantasy,’ Celebration takes the reader on a journey revealing the nature of Love. Celebration demonstrates the essence of communicationβ€”true communication. The work communicates to all ages, and readers find themselves increasingly tuned in, page by page, to its very special message.”

    GAH! I’d only be interested if he wrote a book coming clean about his dirty hands in the “spiritual fantasy” known as the CO$.

    • chukicita

      Have you ever heard him sing?

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    OT. One of my friends has found the chap who hauled on my arm in Dublin a fortnight ago. We thought we recognised him but couldn’t put our finger on where we’d seen him before. Well he’s actually in another of John McGhee’s videos taken earlier this year at St. Hill – F5

    From my video taken in Dublin:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b104119e7a85f1abdededb4edd33a53acf8b6cf98156afbcdebbb55fc98ac08.jpg

    From John’s video taken at St. Hill:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aae10a91443e9e8a869539bcd328343ed24c5feedf011bb79fe63df5d5c22f08.jpg

    https://youtu.be/IKGyYaqFAO8?t=4m10s

    • Sherbet

      Well, my goodness, if those protesters hadn’t been so intimidating, the scientology guard dogs* wouldn’t have had to come after them. Especially Billy Drummond. OOooooo he’s scary.

      *aka scientology thugs and rent-a-cops

      • Sherbet

        BTW, Sam Domingo and Simi Valley used to post from time to time. Does anyone know if they’re still around and active in the sci-watching community?

        • Ella Raitch

          Haven’t heard from D^3 for a while either… πŸ™

          • Sherbet

            I think I’ve seen him in the past week or so. Not much, but he’s stopped in.

        • Davka

          If Sam Domingo is aka Sam Freeman, then she is posting at Marty’s. I think it is the same person, but I’m not sure.

          • Sherbet

            Really…hmmm…I didn’t know that.

            How are you, Davka? How’s your sweet Little Miss?

            • Davka

              I am super crazed. Job is super busy, little Miss is good but keeps me on my toes, and I have a mother recovering from cancer surgery and a father in law about to have some. Mr. Davka and I just keep swimming. I’m doing drive by reads here when I can. Sure I”m missing some antics around here……

            • Sherbet

              That’s all you can do, put one foot in front of the other and keep on going.

  • FredEX2

    Earleen, the long legged receptionist at RTC,…lost her tone altogether when her supervisor sent her to the RPF for her choice of Halloween costume and for shouting ‘raid!’ …scaring the bejebus out of COB and sending the staff running with the files…for the shredders.
    F5
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5759eb0ee490c2e240fc198c3a84e5e9c7d4b86243b7511383831c5ddef9aca1.jpg

    • Mockingbird

      Nice.

    • That’s actually a really good costume.

    • Rasha

      ^^^^^

  • Evey Hammond

    According to Boxofficemojo, In its second weekend, Jack Reacher has dropped down to number 3. Boo: a Madea Halloween is still number 1. The delta is that Jack Reacher’s box office take dropped 58% week over week. This means the audiences that saw it the first weekend didn’t like it and told their friends not to bother going.

    • PJK

      Actually drops of between 50 and 60% week over week are normal for most movies. Even the most successful ones follow this pattern.

      Take Deadpool, one of the most successful movies of this year:

      week 1-2 drops 59.1%, week 2-3 drops 44.9%, week 3-4 drops 44.9% etc.

      Or Star Wars: The force awakens

      Week 1-2 drops 33.4%, week 2-3 drops 54.7%, week 3-4 drops 53.1% etc.

      The best indicator for a movie’s success is the box office it makes the first week, you can then half it for each subsequent week until it reaches the thousands of dollars level and accumulate the numbers to get a rough indication of the kind of total box office it will make.

      For Jack Reacher 2 I’m guessing that it will end up with a US domestic box office take of about 80 million dollars. The foreign take looks like it will be about 1.5x that number, so let’s say 120 million dollars.

      For Tom Cruise 200 million isn’t great, but it would be about 3x the budget so the studio will see this as a minor success (it is generally taken that a movie must make roughly 3 times its budget to be profitable for the studio, mostly due to the fact that marketing budgets are usually higher than the production costs of a movie).

      Now I don’t know how much money they put into marketing this movie, but I’m under the impression that they aren’t really pushing this movie marketingwise (not living in the USA of course gives me limited scope in this area, but here in Europe they aren’t really making a big marketing push for the movie).

      —update—

      I’ve done some extra checks for some of the popular and not so popular movies and it turns out that the 50% can actually be between 40% and 60%, with some exceptions like Star Wars: The Force awakens which went for a 35% drop over its box office run. So given these two limits the US domestic take for Jack Reacher 2 should be between 72 million and 88 million, with a higher probability of the the real figure being towards the first number than to the second number.

      I guess we’ll see in about 10 weeks time what the real numbers are.

      —update 2—
      I looked at the First Jack Reacher movie which made 80 million domestic over its run and only made 30 million in its first week. It only dropped 18.3 % between week 1 and 2, but that’s because it released over the Christmas period where people generally have more time to go to the movies (this was also a factor for TFA btw). The totals for Jack Reacher 1 (foreign and domestic) were 212 million dollars, so I’m expecting this one to get somewhere near there.

      —update 3—
      Disqus messed up the order of my updates, so I had to fix it!

  • FredEX2

    Frank thought it perfectly appropriate when he won 1st prize for wearing his very creative meat body costume to the Halloween Event at the local Scientology Org.
    F5 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/203a548b49241535e1c6da84a94a915de167b19bb1bdd39b9ebbe00ea6a40c28.jpg

    • By tomorrow he is dead meat! I mean expired.. err

  • Because this song always seems appropriate.

    Alice In Chains – Down in a Hole

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8hT3oDDf6c

    • FredEX2

      Good song. What a voice.

    • Mockingbird

      Someone should make a video about the Hole from Scientology with this song.

  • Mockingbird

    Here’s a list. For fun if you were in Scientology see how many of these you recognize right off the bat.

    The 8 essential steps and requirements for successful brainwashing and covert manipulation are:

    Lack of remorse and guilt about causing emotional harm to the target.
    Lower the target’s guard through love bombing in the form of excessive showers of flattery, adoration and praise.
    Isolate the target.
    Camouflage the hidden agenda, intentions and manipulative behaviors.
    Uncover the psychological vulnerabilities of the target to determine what tactics are likely to be most effective.
    Expose the target to mixed messages by alternating love and kindness with cruelty and criticism.
    Manage the target down by creating an atmosphere of unpredictability and chaos which constantly keeps the target walking on egg shells.
    Erode the target’s identity using various forms of ambient abuse such as; guilt tripping, blame-shifting, projection, gas-lighting and triangulation.

    From

    https://relationshipedia.me/2015/07/10/narc-sadistic-brainwashing-the-8-ingredients-of-mind-control/

    • Missionary Kid

      I love the phrase, “Jim Jones University of Narcopathy”.
      While I wouldn’t label my ex a narcopath, because she didn’t do all of the characteristics labeled, there are enough of those characteristics that she displayed while our relationship was crumbling that I now checked off to make me realize how destructive things could be if I had continued the relationship after she talked about a reconciliation.

      • Mockingbird

        WOW.

  • FredEX2

    After locating the Scientology booth at the convention…Hubert couldn’t help but stare at the stuffed WOG from ancient times thought to be 6 trillion years old…and wonder just how much it resembled his late Uncle Humbert and several other relatives still living in Clearwater.
    F5
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/62dc135a34efdeca486d5c9f2049930e85fa97c077ee2762607ecdfde6210cea.jpg

    • Missionary Kid

      That looks like a clay demo.

  • Mockingbird

    OT for serious students of the psychology of Ron Hubbard’s mind I found an interesting description of a hypothesis that MAY describe the changes Hubbard went through as he went from being a publicly seen leader of Scientology in the sixties to a hidden recluse by the late seventies and eighties.

    It describes narcissism, many aspects of Hubbard’s early life and the collapse he could have gone through in his later years. It fits many details already revealed about him very accurately.

    Collapsed Narcissists

    http://ownshrink.com/narcissism/collapsed-narcissists/

    • imo… i think one should steer clear of gossip diagnosis on this subject. It’s like those “10 signs that your boss is a psychopath” or “5 signs your husband is cheating on you”. If you look at those comments, it’s all women smearing their man. Diagnoses like this is not all that Gender-prone and there are woman who is far worse when it comes down to it. Just wait for Hillary to show off he he… j/k

      • kemist

        Narcissists are often very accurately diagnosed by their exes, or their children. They’re also more often men than women. We’re talking about people who will very, very rarely seek treatment, since they always think they’re fine.

        And what is very unfunny about it, when you’ve met one of their victims, is that they’ll often sound crazy – because what they’ve been through is unbelievable.

        Yes, people like that really exist. I did not quite believe it until I met one IRL. If that person had been my life partner, they’d be dead and I’d be in jail.

        • I had my life destroyed in a very few months, by a woman, and the aftermath is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. She is “protected” as she is a woman and when looking at it, from that angle, then it’s all my fault! This is why i question the Gender aspect of this disease.

          • Liberated

            This disease has no gender base.
            These people are determined to destroy, it is what they do.

            • Thank you πŸ™‚

            • Liberated

              This is something I know for sure.

          • kemist

            Narcissist ? Or garden variety female jerk ?

            Believe me, you’d know. Recovering from those people is a little bit like recovering from a cult, even down to the harassment. Only way to truly get better is to sever all contact with them, plus their “flying monkeys”.

            The specimen I know has a sister. I’ve never met her, but by all account, she’s even worse than he is.

            • This female was a Scientologist (probably still is). More than i ever was. But long story, not really fit for this forum as i would blow the lid on a lot of people prematurely πŸ™‚

            • kemist

              She might be one – if only temporarily as her cult-persona.

              If she made you feel like everything (even her own personal failures) was your fault, uses common friends as proxy to pursue unwanted contact (commonly referred to as flying monkeys) and constantly tries to show off in seemingly coincidental occasions with her new victim, it’s a very, very safe bet.

            • She was just as much a victim as i was or became, and what i have to conclude after all those years, is that she was very much under the influence of the cherch and some “idiot” who was OT8 and the highest trained Auditor who was constantly seeking undue influence, using the most despicable techniques known to man! All this is 14 years back in time and as time went by, a pattern started to show around this individual so the list of “flying monkeys” is extremely long!

      • Mockingbird

        I understand your concern. I have examined a lot of material on narcissistic people and Hubbard’s mind. I have spent hundreds of hours examining his life and conduct against information from a variety of sources.

        This isn’t “my wife has a half dozen qualities so I will can her this label.” It’s got a lot of work from different angles involved.

        It’s got a very detailed description that relies on many concepts in the examination of narcissism. It’s not a slap dash five or ten point list based on gender.

        • kemist

          One pretty good indication that somebody has been in a couple with a narcissist (as opposed to a garden variety jerk) is the uncanny resemblance, behavior-wise (sometimes down to the very same details in wording or very specific habits) they find between their ex and another narcissistic ex.

          One very specific exemple : mimicking their social interactions (and occasionally their dress) based on scenes from movies they’ve seen. Scenes that they’d obsessively watch over and over, to “get it right”.

          My friend’s ex did that with such regularity that she could predict how he’d dress and act after certain movies would air. Yes, we’re talking about a grown ass adult. No, it wasn’t in jest. If you pointed it out to him he’d get pissed and insult you.

          • Liberated

            I absolutely was married to one. He exhibited every characteristic of the malignant narcissistic
            personality.
            There was no low he would not stoop.
            I could go on and on, and sometime I will, but right now I’m gonna enjoy a win at wrigley field.

          • Mockingbird

            Yeah. That’s a very different idea than where I was going with Hubbard and collapsed narcissism. I was looking for material to compare as a parallel or compliment to the idea of a traumatic narcissist going through decompensation into florid schizophrenia as described by doctor Daniel Shaw in Traumatic Narcissism and Robert Jay Lifton in his study of Aum Shinrikyo and the behavior of Shoko Asahara .

            Several historical examples of cult leaders or narcissists include similar behavior and deterioration.

        • Well… Not trying to bash you or anything, but i am noticing, that this site is a clickbait for beauty cream and this blogger, Jessika Endsley, is not anywhere near a qualified person to dream up the term “Collapsed Narcissists” and some of the content is taken from other articles and comments like quora. Not that it doesn’t hold any value of interest, but i really think Ronnie was in a different league.

          • Mockingbird

            What league was he in ?

          • Mockingbird

            I don’t believe she created the term. I have an excerpt from another source on collapsed narcissism.

            “Narcissism can be present with depression or ‘collapsed states, while this never happens with psychopathy. “Michael Samsel MA, LMHC

            Presuming his credentials are authentic Michael Samsel is a licensed mental health counselor. Additionally the concepts of decompensation into florid schizophrenia for traumatic narcissists is described by Robert Jay Lifton and Doctor Daniel Shaw. It’s a parallel to collapsed narcissism.

            A narcissist can fail. They can be exposed as a fraud, or convicted of crimes, or caught cheating on a spouse, or have a facade as a good or powerful person utterly shattered.

            They can switch to feeling and acting like victims of betrayal and conspiracies and become paranoid.

            That is a great description for Hubbard’s later years. His caretakers knew he wasn’t a demigod or genius. They knew he was very human and vulnerable. He lost much of the awe people used to hold him in.

            He had his relationships and health deteriorate in obvious ways.

            That’s described by Lifton and fits similar descriptions regarding other cult leaders like Manson. Obviously history has anecdotes about Hitler’s overconfidence and grandiose delusions shattering when he had to face defeat in WW II. Similarly he reportedly became paranoid and saw betrayal and conspiracies e everywhere.

            This is not an idea created by one person in one blog.

          • Mockingbird

            By the way I don’t need beauty cream.

          • Mockingbird

            Here’s a description of collapsed narcissism.

            The ‘Collapsed Narcissist

            The pathological narcissists described above are usually very well defended in the sense that they rarely experience or express doubt or distress. However, when they are not able to control a situation–through natural events, confrontation by savvy others, loss of a major source of supply–there will be a collapse into a distressed state. Over a lifetime, every narcissist will spend some portion of time in the ‘compensated’ (or normal narcissistic) state and some time in the collapsed state. A few narcissists actually spend the majority of the time in a collapsed state. What is essential to understand is that in this state the narcissist is not really healing and the exploitation of others continues. Features include
            Dysphoria. There may be complaints of ‘depression’ but apathy and motor retardation are not present.
            Others are manipulated to provide material needs, not just narcissistic supply, but these contributions are made somehow to seem both inadequate and the narcissist’s ‘just due.’
            Many changing or shifting complaints of physical illness and injuries (hypochondriasis and psychosomatic complaints)
            Feelings and statements of worthlessness, and self-deprecation, but rage and intolerance if another person agrees! Grandiosity is still in full force and the narcissist is still self-involved with fantasies of great potential.
            Inertia and work inhibition. The narcissist refuses to participate in anything he or she cannot control or be the expert in. This is true in the compensated state but there they feel they are in control and are usually busy. In the collapsed state, he or she comes to a standstill.
            Not being able to control others, the narcissist fears he or she is being or will be controlled, and makes many statements and arguments to that effect.
            Bursts of intense activity, at an emergency pace, which, if sustained may shift the state to compensated, but in any case consume the resources of anyone nearby who is drawn in.
            May use others, especially a partner and children, to live a proxy life during this time. The others will have intense direction presented as help or guidance.

          • Mockingbird

            Description from Michael Samsel MA, LMHC

          • Harpoona Frittata

            Was he a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies or a narcissist with sociopathic characteristics, or maybe a manic depressive with psychotic features and paranoid delusions? Yes, all that and more!

            Elron defied neat categorization and exceeded/betrayed all expectations. He was an American original the likes of which we will never see again, praise Xenu! He was a mutant product of the Atomic Age; a hopeful monster who was both the first and last of his line.

            • Hubbard was a man who evidently had a serious personality disorder and then, after years of frustration at people not giving him the admiration he believed that he deserved, found himself to be a guru

              This was an incredible stroke of luck.He had got to know (and conned) just the right person in the course of his pulp fiction career. Dianetics was given extended and enthusiastic promotion of John W Campbell in the pages of the market leading SF pulp “Astounding Science Fiction”. He got his critical mass of followers suddenly, in the same way that some entertainers suddenly achieve fame.

              His personality disorder now became a benefit. He felt entitled to his new status and fought to keep it (and expand it) with the kind of tenacity that only a damaged individual can summon.

              Power and adulation corrupt. We can see this in some people who play in spectator sports and in film actors (yes, TC, I’m looking at you). They know very little about anything but, once they become ‘stars’ hold forth about everything as if their new status has made them experts. They also often react in ways that are not good for anyone, when their fame comes upon them suddenly and unexpectedly.

              Hubbard’s personality disorder certainly involved pronounced narcissism but, when you add in the way that his life developed after he invented dianetics – suddenly finding himself living in an isolated world surrounded by worshippers would affect almost anyone for the worst.

              Whatever he was, there are just too many environmental influences working upon him to make a definitive diagnosis at this remove. Narcissism is certainly a factor, but only one of many, working together with corrupting life experience in a very rare combination.

          • ithilien

            20000 leagues under the sea? Or is that where he is now?

      • ithilien

        Oh i agree,silly women thnking they could actually understand what a big fat narcisscistic man would be like.

  • 9001

    O/T Someone in a podcast I was listening to last night reckons that $cientology has a “1950’s Roky Erickson science fiction feel to it”. Happy Halloween to the Bunker πŸ™‚
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcK2BRvCgU

  • PerpetualOutflow

    That school needs to undo the damage that was inadvertently done to their poor, unsuspecting students who actually enjoyed Bitings’ presentation and had no idea about his nefarious connections and the bogus nature of the content of his speech. They need to bring in one of the many $cientology experts to disabuse anyone who may now be predisposed to in any way pursue $cientology. Careful attention should be paid to debunking each element of his presentation, including the tone scale. They owe this to their students and their parents who entrusted the education of their children to them.

    • Kid Kat

      Agreed PerpetualO. I am happy to see that the Portland Pearl Rotary Club facebook page has removed the visit of the Sci fi fellow.

  • iampissed

    Photo caption….Yes Mr Miscavage, we can help you with that.

  • iampissed

    We live to play another day…Go Cubbies

    • Missionary Kid

      They need two more wins, though.

  • Supper Powers

    I’m exhausted watching that game. Go Cubbies!

  • Supper Powers

    I’m so pleased to see Mark Bunker in that photo we’ve all been getting a kick out of. Leah is fearless!

    • me too.. i think he just been operated or something, but he looks fit for fight

      • Liberated

        Do you get HBO where you live?
        The Blake Edwards movie “10” just came on……it’s so funny, I haven’t seen it in years.

        • HBO we can see like Netflix using the internet, so yes! and i do need to see something funny πŸ™‚

          • Liberated

            Alright.

  • outraged
  • OOkpik
  • ReallyMGM

    So nice to everyone looking so great in LA. Each time Mike Rinder is seen, he seems to have gotten 5 years younger!

    • Missionary Kid

      Gee, I wonder why Marty Mark isn’t in the picture…
      Maybe he’s got that old $cientology stressed look again?

      • ReallyMGM

        The change in him post-BBC documentaries (right after they pulled him out of the hole to do them) to his escape, to Going Clear, to now, gets more and more amazing. I don’t know his secret. He is an ex I wish would write a book, although I know it is tricky with young children.

        • Missionary Kid

          I believe that he’s an ex who just can’t cast off all of the ties that bound him to Co$, perhaps because he had so much power within the organization. Marty Mark has written several books. Scientology Warrior among them.

          • ReallyMGM

            I was talking about Rinder, not Rathbun.

            • Missionary Kid

              Oops.

            • ReallyMGM

              I really would like I book from Mike Rinder!

            • ReallyMGM

              I’ve read one of Marty’s books (thru kindle unlimited) and was not impressed. I read both of Jon Atack’s books and Amy Scobee’s book there. Great way to get books. You can keep them until you want to return them for another book, check them out again and reread…I love KU. Wish more authors would put their older books on it. (Jon Atack’s new book was put on it immediately, for some reason.) I really don’t know how it works for authors, though.

  • Missionary Kid

    A Halloween costume that would be too scary to anyone in the Bunker: An 11 year old (right size for it) dressed up as David Miscavige. For the rest of the country, the head of the World’s Fastest Growing Religion would beg the question, “Who?”

  • Beautiful woman surrounded by a bunch of grey hairs.

  • jmsr

    HO LEE CRAP that’s an impressive mixture of people i recognize on sight.

    Just to check – from left: John Sweeny, Mark Bunker, Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, Tony Ortega? Amirite? Or should i hang my head in shame?

  • Skj

    A lesson to be learned in showing how scientology is infiltrating into our schools and our students minds and lives without us even knowing what they are doing. This is how scientology makes their move. They infiltrate into a group and that group or organization cannot even see what they are doing until it is almost too late. They infiltrate into the minds and lives of our children then before we know what has happened our children are lost into a world of scientology and we as parents have lost them to a religion that would neer have wanted them to even have gone into. This is how scientology works. They sneek into our youths any way they can withoutsaying the word of scientology as they know how we, as parentsl will react when we find out our s=childre have been exposed. This group of scientologists are evil. They are satanic, they want your life of your loved one and will do any kind of misrepresentation of get that life. Everyone needs to pay attention to whomever is speaking or teaching at their schools. We have the responsobo;oty of prptecting the vulnerability of our youths of today. We as parents and leaders must protect our children from the untruths and uncleanness of the inds of scientologists and we must do what ever it takes to protect our children . It is our responsibility to protect our children of today against the moral injustice of moral corruption of any group or organization of today with scientology being one of the leading groups who are infiltrating our schools and protect the cleanliness and moral aptitude of our loved ones. That takes checking someone out before allowing into our child;s lives and minds. To protect their religious freedom to choose and not have an unclean and dominating religion such as scientology pushed down their throats by any satanists who choose to get into our children’s lives and minds by lying in order to get there. This should never have happened at this or any other school. I would never want to awake and find my child is gone to join a cult. We must accept responsibility as their parents and leaders to make sure this never happens again. These were domineering and influential lies that have been fed into the minds of our children and loved ones. I hold someone responsible here and the person responsible here should be immediately fired for this ever happening in the first place and each and every child counseled on the subject matter of lies and untruths that have been shoved down the throats of our innocent children and loved ones. Holding no one responsible allows scientology to win and since scientology has 12 members of my family that I am not allowed to see or speak with two with very bad mental diseases that I no longer know if they are even alive or not someone has to stop scientology and you just let them back into the door to take more innocence. This is no excuse for this happening ad it should ever have happened and someone needs held responsible and brought to justice for physical and mental harm and family anguish. Every family member there needs to file a lawsuit against the cult of scientology for what have just done.to your family and loved ones. Justice abounds in numbers. I hope the Portland Rotary Club has a lot of money for insurance because they need sued for every child that was subjected to what they have done along with the high school. Every mother and father who have children who were subjected to this file a lawsuit for the lies and misleading information delivered to these children by the cult of scientology. This is not called a lesson to be learned. This is breaking the law. Period. L., Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer . Science fiction is called make believe. He lived his life in a make believe world. He was never any preacher. He was a mentally ill crook with bad teeth and a putrid speaking voice and bad bad breath who found a way to make fast money to spend more on himself. He and his space ship and his big ship that is in international waters with hostages on board who being held against their will until they pay up they do not get off is called kidnapping and terroristic motives…Now the crook running it is David Miscaviage who is just as bad or much worse a crook than L, Ron Hubbard. The worst thing the IRS has even done was give them religious status for them to hold onto all their money. Being treated better tha the average person because you have money is against the law. .
    Our federal government needs to come in and place a hold against their accounts and take all their money and pull all the mentally ill people out of there who are being held against their will without their medication that was doctor ordered medication. One of y relatives killed himself while he was on the scientology grounds and t was covered up. How any more has this happened to. They allowed scientology to infiltrate our schools? How many more have they or are they at the preset time infiltrating? Someone better start doing some checking to find out before other die needlessly due to their cult attitude of knowing more tha a doctor. I pray every single day the feds come in with 100 cars and buses and take everyone out who wishes to leave and confiscate every penny they have in the bank and place Miscaviage behind bars where he belongs. Let him be in prison with the other junkies and murderers and rapists and see how long he can survive. (The word scientology does not deserve a cap letter).