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Atack: Contradictions in L. Ron Hubbard’s “tech” only increase Scientology discipline

Jon_Atack3Jon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and for more than three years he’s been helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Tony has given us an insightful examination of what may be an admission by L. Ron Hubbard in Monday’s story, “Did L. Ron Hubbard believe his own rap?”

Here is my two and a half cents on this Hubbard statement, which comes from the Philadelphia “Doctorate” Course. Hubbard can be heard to say, “Now, all this of course is—I’m just kidding you mostly. I don’t believe that you’ve been in
 the universe 76 trillion years. I don’t believe you have any past before birth. I don’t believe
 that there is any reason whatsoever for this universe to be here except some fellow called the 
devil or something that built it. And I don’t believe any of these things. And I don’t want to 
be agreed with about them. It infuriates me to be agreed with about them. So I’m not asking
 for anybody to agree with me, but I’m not asking for anybody to disagree with me either.”

The Philadelphia “Doctorate” Course has been sold in tape and text formats since the lectures were given, back in December 1952. A complete set of cassette tapes was issued in the early 1980s – I had a set, with amateurish transcripts in ring binders, by the time I left in 1983. But the lectures had long been available on reel to reel tape.

This is to say that this particular lecture has been available, on offer and heavily promoted by the Mother Org of Scientology since 1952. It is by no means obscure material. And after reading that utterance by Hubbard, Tony asked, “Is the notion incorrect that Scientologists are expected to take Hubbard at his word and believe that everything he said was true?”

Everything Hubbard said is to be taken as an aspect of the “technology,” and a whole courseload of documents are gathered into the “Keeping Scientology Working” (KSW) series. Various “policy letters” from the Keeping Scientology Working series appear at the beginning of every major (i.e. more than $100) course. Hubbard’s Technical Degrades is always among them.

It makes clear that not one word that Hubbard said can be excised, but also assures us that more recent work does not supersede earlier.

So, for instance, the Dianetics technique of 1950 was brought back into use in the late 1970s, despite Hubbard’s severe criticism of those very methods in the early 1950s (for instance, “Sometimes people go into a hypnotic trance by accident with this count system … so at the Foundation we no longer use it,” Introducing Dianetics, 10 August 1950).

This is an aspect of the “double bind” that Hubbard approaches in his later False Data Stripping material – contradictory statements tend to increase reliance upon authority. Scientology is jam-packed with such contradictions.

According to Technical Degrades, all material has equal value. The only exception would be material that is rated more important by Hubbard himself, as no one else has the right to determine the relative importance. Otherwise, every statement is of equal value.

Among the “high crimes” listed in the policy letter are these: “1. Abbreviating an official course in Dianetics and Scientology so as to lose the full theory, processes and effectiveness of the subjects. 2. Adding comments to checksheets or instructions labeling any material ‘background’ or ‘not used now’ or ‘old’ or any similar action which will result in the student not knowing, using and applying the data in which he is being trained.”

And: “4. Failing to strike from any checksheet remaining in use meanwhile any such comments as ‘historical,’ ‘background,’ ‘not used,’ ‘old,’ etc., or VERBALLY STATING IT TO STUDENTS.” [emphasis in original].

Lest there be any misunderstanding, the final point is, “10. Acting in any way calculated to lose the technology of Dianetics and Scientology to use or impede its use or shorten its materials or its application.”

So, Hubbard’s words must be taken as literal truth. The earliest statement of Hubbard’s intentions that we have is a 1938 letter addressed to “Skipper,” Hubbard’s pet name for his first wife. Journalist Steve Cannane asked me how I could prove the provenance of this letter and the answer is simple: It was filed at the US Copyright Office at the Library of Congress by Norman Starkey, executor of Hubbard’s estate (“LRH Archives,” Registration number TXu 298-918, 29 October 1987). This letter is vital to any understanding of Hubbard’s motives.

Hubbard tells his first wife, “Personal immortality is only to be gained through the printed word, barred note or painted canvas or hard grabite [sic – granite]. Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all the books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned.”

Here we find the shocking notion that the creator of Scientology did not believe in personal immortality, although he had completed his fabled text Excalibur only a few months before writing this letter.

Hubbard insisted that for anything to persist it must contain a lie – an “alter-isness.” Once the truth of anything has been perceived, it will “as-is” or disappear. So, what is the lie that ensures that Scientology will persist? Perhaps the lie is simply that Hubbard did not believe in the “whole track” or “past lives”?

Asked by Charlie Nairn in 1968 if he believed in reincarnation, Hubbard hesitated noticeably. Charlie then said that Hubbard’s followers believe, and the Old Man of the Sea Org answered in the affirmative without reflection. Nairn’s film – The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard – will make even the most devoted Dev-OT uneasy.

Hubbard did place some aspects of his “technology” above the rest, including the Scientology Axioms. Here we find significant insight into Hubbard’s beliefs. For instance, Axiom 31 assures us, “Goodness and badness, beautifulness and ugliness, are alike considerations and have no other basis than opinion.”

This is quite a blow to the ethics and justice system of Scientology, but it does indicate Hubbard’s view of morality and ethics: just opinions. Hubbard did not feel bound by any ethical code. If someone had annoyed him, they could be lied to, tricked, sued and even destroyed.

What did Hubbard want out of Scientology? As Mark “Marty” Rathbun’s faith in the “tech” began to crumble, he pointed out that Hubbard wanted to be deified. I had come to the same conclusion myself, having examined exactly this point in Blue Sky, first published in 1990 (adding that both Chinese and Roman religions had the notion of immortality conferred by worship). And if Hubbard wanted to be immortalised as a god then the “tech” must be constructed with such apotheosis in mind. Another “alter-is” to make the “tech” persist.

Hubbard believed in the supreme importance of admiration. In Factor 14, he said: “The most valued point is admiration” and at Factor 29: “In the opinion of the viewpoint [the thetan], any beingness, any thing, is better than no thing, any effect is better than no effect, any universe better than no universe, any particle better than no particle, but the particle of admiration is best of all.”

A Messenger told me that by the early 1980s, Hubbard was most interested in the time spent applauding his picture at “events.” John McMaster told me that 15 years earlier, Hubbard was furious that the “World’s First Real Clear” was more popular than he was. Hubbard was deeply insecure. He ignored his own warning in the Code of Honour to “never need praise, approval or sympathy.” He longed to be admired. Even if he did not deserve that admiration.

Hubbard also made his mission on earth very clear when he said, again, in Axiom 10: “The highest purpose in this universe is the creation of an effect.”

Scientologists believe that this effect is their own transformation into living gods with supernatural powers (how sad that it isn’t so!). For Ron Hubbard, however, the “effect” was Scientology itself. He left behind hundreds of millions of dollars and a loyal following of tens of thousands. His myth is even more fantastic than Baron Munchausen’s and will doubtless inspire many fabulous tales in both print and film.

Paulette Cohen – a Class XII who had been Hubbard’s auditor – shunned me thirty years ago when I asked to interview her. She said that by writing about Hubbard – even in a truthful and therefore often negative way – I was fulfilling his desire.

She was right – I have spent several decades increasing Hubbard’s celebrity. I’m not in the least concerned about fulfilling his desire: he deserves to be famous or at least notorious. And by making him famous, we give a warning to the world about flamboyant, boastful people who make outrageous promises in exchange for our cash and our devotion.

Hubbard made his deal with the devil. I don’t think he’ll be coming back any time soon. Unless David Miscavige releases him from the electronic trap in his Trementina hideaway.

 
— Jon Atack

 
——————–

HowdyCon update: We need you to respond

On Thursday, we had some great Bunker readers leap into the fray when we indicated that we’d lost the organizer of our upcoming meetup in Cleveland, HowdyCon, which takes place June 17-19.

With help from our new volunteers, we secured a great venue for our Saturday night event, which we’re going to make sure will be the centerpiece of the weekend. But now, we need to know who’s coming so we can figure out how to feed you all.

If you’re going to HowdyCon and you plan on joining us Saturday night for our main event, please drop us a line at tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com. Please let us know how many will be in your party. We need that information to cater the affair.

Thank you.

 
——————–

HowdyConBanner

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on May 21, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Dice ✓
    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      When we visited the Coral Gables, Miami Org a couple of years ago we specifically asked about online courses and were told that the only way to study Scientology was on their premises. We told the man that we had seen advertisements for web classes and he said that wasn’t possible, but if we were free that afternoon we could begin immediately (presumably starting with the personality test). We said we’d be happy to come back if all three of us could be seen together but he said that also wasn’t possible; we would be separated into different rooms.

      • Dice ✓

        If i had been that Scio you would have been OT8 by now 🙂

      • JJ

        You can’t study on-line you might accidentally see something that totally contradicts, or even worse, offers an alternate version of the cult you wish to join. You may even come across well thought out arguments against the very core of the select cults scared beliefs, or silly pictures, which would be worse.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Exactly. We knew it was nonsense but we wanted to get the denial on video. Unfortunately I only filmed the first few minutes then panicked and turned my phone off when it beeped and drew his attention 😀 Amateur hour.

      • JaxNGold

        Wow. They don’t even make an attempt to seem normal. Separating new people into different rooms? WTF. Beyond creepy.

        • Dice ✓

          Lol – To them it is perfectly normal ha ha!

    • Too funny.

    • sashiebgood

      omg. seriously? I can’t even.

    • JaxNGold

      Free Web and iPad courses?? That’s just rich. Will the lucky recipients of these courses also get Net Nanny covertly installed on their computers? Ya know, for their own “protection” and all. We can’t have $cientologists freely roaming the Internet at will. Nope, there will be none of that!

  • Even if you’re not a horseracing fan you should probably not tune in to NBC right now.
    The Preakness is being run in a mudhole.
    Its animal abuse.

    • daisy

      I worked at a racetrack in my teens. It is animal abuse.

      • Frodis73

        Not a fan either…

      • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

        Yeah, thank God no animals were injured in that mudhole!

        • JJ

          I watched and said isn’t it dangerous for them to run so fast on mud?

          • daisy

            yes.

      • I will educate myself about it, thanks for the input.

        • daisy

          Thank you.

          • I always reserve the right to be wrong, and exercise it frequently.

            • Dice ✓

              ha ha!

            • That’s copyrighted by the way.
              So if you use it, you gotta pay me.

            • Dice ✓

              I have Bitcoins np 🙂

            • I take only nickels.

            • daisy

              I hear ya !

            • Dice ✓

              He was wrong about hubbard too…

            • Yeah, I thought he was a jolly old boy.

        • Dice ✓

          I like this bail out 🙂

          • Its a cheap psychological trick.
            Agree with people. Everyone disagrees so often, and automatically, that its disarming.
            And plus it ends any argument.
            “You could be right.” Absolutely perfect response. Because it is likely always true.
            And if you ask someone, “Could you be wrong about that”, and they say,”‘no”, then you know there is no point in any further discussion.
            But seriously, I try not to have or hold a position that I’m not satisfied is factually based. So indeed, I will educate myself about it.
            I love this song.

            Everyone is good the Roches

            I would like to be a person who does not judge

            Free to be me whatever that might be

            I don’t want to hold a position, don’t want to hold a grudge

            ‘Cause it seems to be the cause of a lot of misunderstanding

            Heartbreak misery

            Looking in your eyes, you’re different from me

            Why does it have to be that one of us is better

            Can’t we both be beautiful even if we don’t agree

            Like the flowers in the garden and the animals in the wood

            Each one with a purpose and each one is God

            Everyone is good

            Everyone is good

            “Nobody’s God”, says, “Hate your neighbor”

            Even if the neighbor doesn’t believe in God

            Put aside your religion, do your God a favor

            And wouldn’t it be something to be loving and kind

            Forgive yourself for everything having once been blind

            Everyone is good

            Everyone is good

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDbPF07akE

            • Dice ✓

              True that! And it’s perfect when you meet one of those who just want to argue for the arguments sake. They get really pissed if you keep telling them they are right! When i meet a Ron bot, it’s the other way around – they get really pissed if you keep telling them that they are Wrong! Even if they tell you how nice the weather is – just say No! that’s wrong! and nothing further! Then watch them 🙂 Nice song..

            • Funny.
              I can see how that would work on a Scientologist.

  • Liberated

    ” Exaggerator” won the Preakness.

  • JJ

    Chya was my horse! Seriously hope they clean up their act, was it always bad? Is there ever an example of human and animals where profit is involved where the animals are not harmed?

    • sashiebgood

      Racehorses are some of the worst treated animals that make their owners millions of dollars. A horse is a long lived creature, 40 – 50 years. when they run these 3 and 4 year old horses so hard to win these races, it’s essentially like making a toddler run a marathon. Racehorses are skittish and sensitive, prone to illness and injury. if a horse wins these races, he may be allowed to go and stud for the rest of his life (that is the where the bulk of the horse’s worth is) but until then, they lead a life of an athlete that is pushed to the limit at every turn. I despise horse racing. the people who care for them are close to their horses and treat them well for the most part, but the owners are usually a different story.

      • daisy

        up arrows

      • TheMirrorThetan

        I’m sure they only live 25 to 30 yrs not 50. But I do agree with the comments on their treatment.
        I used to work in that industry. Horses and people are disposable in that game. Dump them once they are permanently injured, there is plenty more.

      • JJ

        What is the matter with people seriously. If the people that close to the horses see and allow the abuse who can stop it? Is it different in the Middle East?

      • daisy

        Many people who are their care takers and claim to love them are their abusers. They are paid to make the horse win . That often entails abuse. I agree with your sentiments and statements otherwise. Oh and the average age is 25- to 33. I really really hate carriage horses in cities like NY.

  • 9001

    Breaking news from BBC for football (soccer to USA) fans. Jose Mourinho new manager of Man Utd!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Nice, he starts next week! It was rumoured earlier in the Independent. Shout-out for the most beautiful human of the male persuasion to walk this earth, David Ginola, who is recovering from emergency quadruple bypass surgery.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Sorry if this is a re-post, especially as it will cause your eyes to roll back in your head and potentially never return to their original position:

    “For example, on May 5th, the Volunteer Ministers celebrated the National Day of Prayer with a number of other religious leaders, from Christians to Muslims to Scientologists. The National Day of Prayer is observed annually in May when the whole nation is asked “to turn to God in prayer and meditation”. To underscore this, each year since its inception, the President has signed a proclamation, encouraging all Americans to pray on this day. The guests discussed the need to defend religious freedom for all faiths.

    To emphasize this, Mrs. Goodsell, read a quote from the Scientology Volunteer Ministers Handbook, “Probably the most critical point of attack on a culture is its religious experience. Where one can destroy or undermine religious institutions then the entire fabric of the society can be quickly subverted or brought to ruin.””

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/scientology-volunteer-ministers-florida-reach-160319443.html

    • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

      eyes now rolled back in my head!

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Save yourself! Fumble around blindly until you can feel a kitten!

        • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

          Haha! Done! 😀

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Phew 😀

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Mrs. Goodsell? Perfect name for a Scio Reg.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Hur hur 😛 Only beaten by Harry Hardsell.

    • JaxNGold

      Just…kill me.

    • Enturbulated Masterbator

      Ugh. On a side note this reminds me of all that interfaith nonsense.

  • Vaquera

    Check out the crowd in this photo from the Atlanta Ideal Org. that was posted 2 minutes ago.
    NOI in da’ house. f5
    “We are starting soon, where are you?”

    add: It screams for Obs or Mark to do their thing with word bubbles.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Old-time Scientologists cannot be happy about this. Good. Maybe it will be their wake-up call.

      • 9001

        NOI are only doing Dianetics. But they’re there to fill the seats.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          What did I read very recently that spoke of NOI beginning to move beyond just doing Dianetics? It’s too late for me to remember exactly.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I’ve seen pictures of a few at Super Powers.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Damn, I wish I could remember whether I read it here or elsewhere.

            • Supper Powers

              Shelton talked about it in a recent Q&A. He said some of the NOI in MN Org were starting to dabble in Scientology now. Maybe you heard it there?
              ETA: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kW_zR5tmj8I

            • cdub

              Little money doth not a scientologist make.

          • 9001

            Thanks Andrea. I missed that. I thought they were all only on the Dianetics BS.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              It was really recent. Someone made the observation that NOI seemed to be deepening their involvement. It might well have been Chris Shelton, as Supper Powers suggests 🙂

            • Vaquera

              Some of the NOI members from a Tampe mosque have moved to Atlanta to work in the Ideal Org.

            • WOG with Attitude

              I’m not buying their whole “only Dianetics, not Scientology” BS.

              It’s all Hubbard and Dianetics book is the foundation of Scientology.

              A skunk by any other name!

          • Its all the same.
            And it ain’t free.

          • Vaquera

            Do these count? f5

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Nice! You find some really cool stuff 🙂

        • “Only dianetics…”
          Its all brainwashing.

    • More NOI than any others, seemingly.
      Not a “sideshow”.
      (Not so subtle, but playful, dig at our Proprietor.)

    • beauty for ashes

      There is some talk that Farrakhan sold out to CO$ for 2.3 million plus percentage of services. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS6Lev8TFAU

  • beauty for ashes

    So Nice to See Jon Atack still providing challenging insights. Wonder if his cats are as smart?
    See how I tied that in (JUST BARELY)? 🙂
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDDM_XGNj2c

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Simon’s Cat! Perfectly timed to free poor Joy Lover’s eyeballs from their purgatory in the back of her head 😀

      • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

        LOL! Purrrrrfectly timed! 😀

    • WOG with Attitude

      https://youtu.be/TbiedguhyvM

      Maru vs boxes is always a joy. Persistent little bugger!

      • beauty for ashes

        Seriously, I’m obsessed. I think it is equal parts Maru’s parents zen filmmaking style, and the Buddha cat adorablity of Maru. And his fetish for box hugs… and I could go on and on.

        • WOG with Attitude

          It’s perfection. Maru is delightful. Her mom’s style is lovely. So charming! Winning combination. Cats are such little characters! I’m always enthralled by the variety of their personalities and their quirks.

          I’m allergic to cats & dogs. (I’m sure scIentology could make me think I’m not with a few touch assists, but I like my home and money.)
          So, I have to watch other people’s little monsters on YouTube.

          • beauty for ashes

            I’m not in the position to have animals, or else I’d have a king Charles cavalier spaniel, and a big fat black kitteh. Frankly, I’d love to live at Tippy Hedron’s refuge!

  • Jimmy3

    Marty Rathbun took an online quiz to find out that his spirit Pokemon is Jigglypuff. But deep down, he’s always known that.

  • Vaquera

    Scientology Mission of Harlem Proposal Notebook on ebay.

    From singer Isaac Hayes personal items, Proposal to Isaac Hayes seeking his opinion on the location in New York of The Church of Scientology Mission of Harlem. Notebook containing 23 pages of photographs and statistics. Very unique piece of Scientology history. Also includes his business cards and music CD.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCIENTOLOGY-MISSION-OF-HARLEM-PROPOSAL-NOTEBOOK-Isaac-Hayes-Estate-Personal-Item-/191874991530?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

    • Odds are that his estate doesn’t know about this, and/or they were screwed out of any rights.
      And you know Scientology ain’t gonna throw any money their way.

      • I made a proposal to the spirits of the vasty deep.

        I wonder how many copies they sold to Scientologists?

      • jazzlover

        Is it known that he didn’t actually will everything to CoS?

  • Liberated

    If anyone’s interested, All The Way is on HBO at 8:00, with Walter White, uh, I mean Bryan Cranston.

    • daisy

      I never was all that interested on LBJ until recently when he was discussing his balls and bung hole with a tailor. JK – He was very interesting

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I don’t usually do this because I have a sneaking suspicious that my taste in music isn’t very cool compared to the Bunker Cats who share their favourite songs here on a Saturday night, but I love Muse and this is my favourite song of theirs, along with Endlessly. I seem to remember sharing another favourite, “Narayan” by The Prodigy 2 or 3 years ago, so be reassured you won’t hear from me again in this respect for some time 😛

    https://youtu.be/i9LOFXwPwC4

    • Their “Madness” was all over the radio, but it floats my boat. They have some great prog rock songs too.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Phew! I was cowering in the uncool corner, but if Dodo is sticking by me I know I’m going to be okay. There is no cooler cat than The Laser 🙂

        • MaxSpaceman

          Lots of Bunkeroos and Bunker readers like and enjoy your music selections 🙂

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Aww, you always have my back 🙂

      • sashiebgood

        their version of “I put a spell on you” is really good too

    • Ella Raitch

      Love Muse!
      p.s. my daughter and I are in agreement that while the Twilight films were crap they had excellent sound tracks, featuring Muse of course

  • nottrue
  • Out and about

    Hi all! I went into the cult looking for sanity! I found it when I blew! I love my bookcase now, filled with beautiful things that make me happy. Thanks for all of you wonderful souls, Jon, I am so grateful to you. I reread your books over and over. I am truly not alone. Peace

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Welcome to the Bunker! 🙂

    • outraged

      Bless you! I love your story. This is reason I come here. This is reason I keep fighting.

      For all those still stuck, find your sanity. leave the cult. You can do it. We are all here with open arms.

      https://youtu.be/iuTJ98_znVM

      • Out and about

        Thanks Voiceless. So very beautiful!

        • TexasBroad

          Welcome Out and About! Glad you’re here!

    • Welcome.

    • OOkpik

      It’s great too see you out and about. Welcome to the Bunker.

    • Illinoisian

      Welcome. Many of us have bookcases filled with things we treasure. And we love it when Jon writes a post for the Bunker. Glad you are out and about and found us at the Bunker.

    • JanInThePan

      Well done getting out! You have more friends than you know, many of them waiting for you here.

    • Hey there! Enjoy the rest of the world – it’s so amazingly bigger and richer than the shriveling world that Hubbard made

  • Vaquera

    We missed Armed Forces Appreciation Day at the Fort Harrison today.
    Hosted by the scio front group Florida Citizens for Social Reform. f5
    Add: keynote speakers were a circuit court judge and the chairman of the Pinallas County School Board.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Blergh. Not you, darling Vee, but – y’know…

      • Vaquera

        All it really is is a way to safe point officials.

  • Dear Jon Atack, your retirement is being postponed until further notice.
    Your cooperation and understanding is appreciated.

    Much Love, The Internet.

    P.S. Thank you, Jon.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      We are very lucky.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Heeeey, bed, you!

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Look who’s talkin’ knight owl!

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Ooh, Knight Owl. I like it! Do I get a Kit car? Also, you’re not the boss of me! I might be about to go to bed but that’s because I CHOOSE to go to bed *scurries* 😛

            • Eivol Ekdal

              coco?

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              The clown? With whipped cream? I choose both!

            • Supper Powers

              Thank you for that nightmare. Aaaah!

            • Eivol Ekdal

              Sorry – I am back now.
              I went to the kitchen and the freezer door was ajar.
              Ahhh…the can of coke I put in the freezer earlier and forgot about exploded.
              So that was that thud I heard earlier. What a mess!
              Plus side, three heaping spoons of cola slushie.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Besides, if I went to bed early I would not catch Dodo.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Sorry if double-posted. New video from Tory – “Scientology A Message to Miscavige and Members Waking UP”

    https://youtu.be/EvFoRdVTmfE

    • Nice. Tory delivers again. Tick Fucking Tock.

    • JJ

      A man commented on Mike’s blog a few years back that he was literally blinded by the potent energy of the sociopath he was working for in the military I think it was. To the why doesn’t someone do something question. Hit DM in the face when he yells at them or tell him he is way out of line. They are A, scared, B, surrounded, C, enthralled by him to the point of inaction.

    • Liberated

      I love Tory, she’s so much fun.

  • Linda Clement

    I haven’t read all of today’s posts, so someone else may have mentioned this, but just in case: there’s a hell of a story on Mike Rinder’s blog today about the Church of Scientology’s multi-faceted use of children. No personal stories, just a well-written and well-illustrated editorial. If you tend to be hot-tempered, get a pillow to punch before reading. Me, I needed Kleenex. I’m saving up the anger until I find just the right something to blast with it.

    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-children/

    • JJ

      This is moving into beyond creeptastic. But like I said, if they can’t recruit, they will have to breed.

  • Ronn S.

    The main thing for me I don’t believeJon Atack has all the answers either. It can become a little too involved.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Nobody has all the answers 🙂

      • flyonthewall

        surely someone must have all the questions

        • Observer

          I’m guessing that’s you.

          • flyonthewall

            why do you say that?

            • Observer

              Thank you.

            • daisy

              iswydt

            • flyonthewall

              what about me?? Did you see what i did?? Huh-huh did ya???

            • daisy

              The post was for both of you. My apologies

            • flyonthewall

              I’m sorry. I’m a very insecure person you see. My mommy didn’t breastfeed me. Love me!!!

            • daisy

              I do , but I draw the line at breast feeding you. Besides ,you will not be able to get down to my kneecaps.

            • flyonthewall

              awesome

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Pffft. Who likes powdered milk anyway?

            • daisy

              LOL – you are on fire tonight.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You like the smell of burnt rubber?

            • Baby

              Oh I remember those days.. errrrrrr nights..

            • Baby

              OMG Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahha Daisy.. You funny

            • jazzlover

              Here ya go. I posted this on your birthday, but ya blinked and missed it:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NT6c4AO8LA

            • flyonthewall

              very very nice. The arms though? Idk, they look weird to me

            • jazzlover

              They do, but Stay Puft doesn’t exactly look proportional to begin with 🙂

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzaQjS1JstY

            • flyonthewall

              this is true

            • jazzlover

              And that is one BIG Twinkie 😉

            • Eivol Ekdal

              I saw it fly!

            • flyonthewall

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Alex Trebek.

    • Of course not. It’s all of us combined have the answers.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Pffft! I don’t subscribe to the cult of Dodo.

        (don’t worry man, that’s just a swerve to throw off the Rathbunnies)

    • What’s your question?

    • TexasBroad

      He would be the first to say he doesn’t

  • You Ain’t Seen Nothin’ Yet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8QiHbI-YYY

    • daisy

      I am saving this for bed, I love MM . thanks for posting.

  • JJ

    This is unreal, check the news? Two of the horses died even before the Preakness began!

    • daisy

      It should be outlawed !!!

  • Vaquera

    Oh. My. God.
    One on one personal coaching with Grant Cardone for $100,000.
    Add: It’s not even in person. It’s by telephone or teleconference. Seriously?!
    f5

    • Vaquera

      The details of “what you get.” f5

      • flyonthewall

        He thinks two hrs of his time is worth $100K!? As we say here in St. Louie, “That boy be trippin’!”

        • Vaquera

          And not in person.

          • flyonthewall

            maybe it’s a cleverly disguised NSA ad? Grant Cardone, male gigolo

            • flyonthewall

              You know you’re curious V

            • Vaquera

              Not even.

        • Sunny Sands

          I took it to mean $100K for 1 hour of his time.

          • Vaquera

            I took it to mean a 1 hour call plus 4 15 minute calls.
            However, you’re right that’s it’s not clearly stated.

            Edit – I now think it’s for 4 fifteen minute phone calls or teleconferences.

        • UhLasare

          This leads me to the conclusion that the 1-hour mentioned in the first point IS the four 15-minute sessions. (F5)

      • Liberated

        I think I’d rather throw my money away at the Psychic Hotline.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Call me now for your free psychic reading.

          • Liberated

            You accept visa? Post-dated checks?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              No way. My crystal ball tells me that check is made of rubber.

            • Liberated

              Hey, wait just a minute Mr. Hubturd.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I know my rubber.

            • Enturbulated Masterbator

              My crystal meth tells me that Cardone is full of crack.

    • daisy

      It would be worth it to have a license to insult him for an hour. I would even train for it like a marathon.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Snort-slash-Guffaw!!

      There is literally no opportunity more valuable to your personal success. Amazing 😀

      Oh, Grant. You were put on earth to provide fodder for our collective hilarity.

      • Vaquera

        I was at the point where I thought he could no longer shock me.
        Color me wrong.

    • xx

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Platinum Douchitorious award right there.

  • JJ

    A whole hour and four fifteen minute phone sessions?! Well that sounds like a bargain sign me up! Wasn’t one of Hubbard’s beliefs that people value those things they pay for?

    • UhLasare

      Nope – the way I read it, the one-hour consists of four 15-minute sessions, and that’s it.

      • Vaquera

        I originally thought it was two, but now agree with you. It’s only four 15 minute sessions.

        • UhLasare

          He’s NUTS.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Dodo,

    Some friends of mine just returned from a Baltic Sea cruise. They brought me a small bottle of Czar brand Russian vodka purchased in St. Petersburg. Look familiar? I’m not really a vodka drinker, so I’ll sample it in your honor….and maybe Daisy’s too.

    • jazzlover

      Drink it while you listen to the 5.1 surround of Dark Side of the Moon. That’s OTXII territory right there.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Good idea! I may go OTX!

      • Robert Ramsay

        I can still hear the heat beat in speak to me … 🙂 A truly great album.

        • jazzlover

          It is, and the surround of it is the best I’ve heard so far. Fwiw, there are a lot of Floyd fans who saw that as “going commercial” and hated them for it. They were a psychedelic band in the early years.

          • Robert Ramsay

            If it strikes a chord (or an axe for that matter) it strikes, commercial or not 🙂

            • jazzlover

              Most people (in my experience) don’t see things in black and white terms. There are tons of Beatards who will go to their graves saying that Paul McCartney’s solo work is the pinnacle of modern music after the Beatles, simply because it’s Macca. People tend to judge based on impressions rather than the real nitty gritty of the music itself. Personally, one would have to pay me a Grant Cardone level fee to sit down and listen to Ummagumma ever again 😉 Or to watch Emily play, for that matter. I just can’t connect with the Barrett years, or the space ship noises made after Barrett went target two.

            • Robert Ramsay

              agreed…and …when we leave this world those of us that go to purgatory will end up … in a Phillip Glass concert. 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I’m sorry, could you repeat that?

            • jazzlover

              As long as it’s not Koyaanisqatsi or Cage’s 4’33”, I’m good with that 😉

            • Robert Ramsay

              Koyaanisqatsi I have enjoyed but as far as 4’33” goes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQa4DL17Aug.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. I’m not a huge fan of modern classical to begin with, and given my screen name you should know that I see jazz as America’s real classical 🙂 I need a rhythm (implied or otherwise), some improvisation and risk-taking to keep me awake. The bigger the risk, the higher the reward. It’s also why I see King Crimson as the prog band that has left all others lying in their wake.

            • Robert Ramsay

              Yes ! the keeper of the Mellotron and so much more !! Gentle Giant did have a bit of run for while as well.

            • jazzlover

              I’m talking the Wetton/Bruford/Cross years. The first album sounded dated in 1970. The Larks’ Tongues stuff is my lifeblood. The whole reason I got into jazz to begin with.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd
            • jazzlover

              That’s ok, but you’re not gonna like it when I say that that’s exactly the kind of fusion Chick was playing in the 80s with his Elektric Band. High gloss stuff he was pumping out on Dave Gruisin’s GRP label.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Just OK? You gots some scary standards, but I get it if this style is not your cup-o-tea. The keyboard player also happens to be nice singer and a killer drummer too. It’s kind of sickening….in an impressive way.

            • jazzlover

              Ok, let me clarify. It’s obvious that he’s a supremely talented musician. But, supremely talented musicians don’t always make awesome music. I am in no way a jazz purist. I cut my teeth in jazz on fusion, and I listen to tons of it today. It’s just that that particular period of Corea (when he was playing stuff like that) is hugely seen as a “misfire”, and one that most wish never existed. The same goes for the music that Hancock was playing in the early 80s, especially during the “Rockit” phase.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Actually, the Quad mix is where it’s at. Soooo good. I heard tape transfers once of the original quad mix in a surround seminar. Blew away my modern SACD.

        • jazzlover

          Has the Quad ever been released commercially?

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            The multi-channel SACD came out first. It was a technical disaster. The 5.1 was OK, but the 2 channel mix was digitally clipped(distorted) in places and somehow made it past mastering and into production. Sony and PF were pretty embarrassed. When word of the killer Quad mix from the 70’s got out, someone then went and did a version copying that and put it out on DVD-Audio in surround. I do not think it was a direct transfer, rather a modern copy, but don’t quote me on that. I never bought it and now it’s hard to find and costs lots of moolah. Stupid me for waiting.

            • jazzlover

              Are you talking about what’s in this:

              http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Moon-Immersion-Box/dp/B004ZNARH4

              DISC 3 – DVD 1, ALL AUDIO:

              – The Dark Side Of The Moon, James Guthrie 2003 5.1 Surround Mix (previously released only on SACD) in standard resolution audio at 448 kbps

              – The Dark Side Of The Moon, James Guthrie 2003 5.1 Surround Mix (previously released only on SACD) in high resolution audio at 640 kbps

              – The Dark Side Of The Moon, LPCM Stereo mix (as disc 1)

              – The Dark Side Of The Moon, Alan Parsons Quad Mix (previously released only on vinyl LP/8 track tape in 1973) in standard resolution audio at 448 kbps

              – The Dark Side Of The Moon, Alan Parsons Quad Mix (previously released only on vinyl LP/8 track tape in 1973) in high resolution audio at 640 kbps

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Wow! That’s a complete selection, isn’t it? Not a whole set like that. Just a DVD-A of the Quad. But for the price, maybe this set is worth buying since it’s the real quad for sure. Nice find.

            • jazzlover

              I have it. Now I can’t remember if it’s Guthrie’s surround or Parson’s Quad that I found awesome. When Floyd had their most recent reissue campaign in 2011, Guthrie did all the stereo remixes, and they put out Immersion sets for DSotM, Wish You Were Here and The Wall. They foinked up the Wall by not including 5.1 because they claimed they didn’t have time to finish the work. Fans have been clamoring for Animals to no avail. I don’t think their reissue campaign was as big a hit as they wanted it to be. It went under the ridiculous banner: Why Pink Floyd? 🙂

              http://www.whypinkfloyd.com/

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Well, go have a listen to both and let me know which one you find superior.

            • jazzlover

              I will do that and let you know.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              My recollection is that the quad was less precise with instrumental placement and whizbang gimmickry, but more enveloping and immersive.

            • jazzlover

              Are you sure they used the same generation you heard?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Well, there was only one Quad, so……what I heard was claimed to be direct transfer off of those master tapes.

            • jazzlover

              Ok, I’ll let you know what I think. It’s been a while. So much to listen to, so little time 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Cool. I appreciate it.

    • Supper Powers

      You forgot to close the porn tabs in the background before you took the pic. Oops.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        No I didn’t. I left them there on purpose. ;-P

    • It’s a trap. Go with Rasputin beer, it’s a lesser trap. Your milage and all..

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Trap? As in this guy? (refresh with some space sushi)

      • I used to be able to get this.
        The reviews generally said it tasted like it came out of a rusty pipe.
        What their point was I’ll never know.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Made with Flint water?

    • daisy

      I am more impressed by quanity over quality . * clink*

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Hang on a minute. I can put some isopropyl on ice for ya. I’ve got a big jug of it.

    • Go for it.
      And remember, the antidote for methanol poisoning is ethyl alcohol.
      Tru fax.

  • Just another night.
    On planet earth.
    I’ll probably stay.

    • daisy

      Good.

      • Ya know, when yer sittin’ at a picnic table minding your own business, and a group of women come along with a giant penis, the world makes sense.

        • daisy

          Life would be so dull if you don’t appreciate the absurdities

  • I don’t think you ‘never ins’ understand. Tony and his news is something we didn’t have for maybe 30 years some of us. 30 years!

    • Supper Powers

      It must be overwhelming to have so much information available now.

      • Yah. The overwhelming part is looking back. Oh NO! I didn’t say that?

        • Supper Powers

          That makes sense, Cece. Is it difficult because you have regrets or did something specific happen that is on your mind tonight?

          • Oh the day I got out I handled all but one upset I created. Was it with you? I don’t remember her name. Its most difficult because I have 2 kids still there. I’d like to say ‘oh well’ but I can’t yet. You guys make me smile and make me know all was not for naught.

            • Baby

              Cece.. We are so f*ckin proud of you.. You are strong .. I know you don’t feel strong tonight..Maybe giving yourself a little Pity Party..

              Shit you have every right to give into pain.. You just don’t stay in pain.. You are a fighter.. Just fight through that pain. We are fighting with you!

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              She deserves a huge pat on the back. The whole magnetic sign part of the campaign was started by Cece.

            • Phil, thank you. I miss my kids …..

            • With love we cannot fail.

            • Exactly back at you.

            • Baby

              I am sobbing for you Cece.. I am so sorry..

            • You know Baby… I had to take a good look at sobbing. still haven’t figured it out. Must be therapeutic. Like saying hello on Tony’s blog. I love all you guys that helped me out of this mess. MESS ~ a very BIG mess~!

            • Supper Powers

              I have my Bunker-issue hip waders on with a great pair of yellow rain boots. I’m always ready for a beautiful mess!

            • Baby

              I am always a scratch away from a sob Cece. xo

            • The only time I feel the pain

              Is in the sunshine or the rain

              And I don’t feel no hurt at all

              Unless you count when teardrops fall

              I tell the truth ‘cept when I lie

              It only hurts me when I cry

              You couldn’t tell it by the smile

              That my recovery took awhile

              I worked for days and nights on end

              Just to walk and talk again

              You can’t believe the time it takes

              To heal a heart once it breaks

              The only time I feel the pain

              Is in the sunshine or the rain

              And I don’t feel no hurt at all

              Unless you count my teardrops fall

              I tell the truth ‘cept when I lie

              It only hurts me when I cry

              Oh maybe every now and then

              I have a small heartache again

              You wouldn’t know when you look at me

              There’s tiny scars that you can’t see

              It was a struggle to survive

              I’m probably lucky I’m alive

              The only time I feel the pain

              Is in the sunshine or the rain

              And I don’t feel no hurt at all

              Unless you count when teardrops fall

              I tell the truth ‘cept when I lie

              And it only hurts me when I cry

              I tell the truth ‘cept when I lie

              And it only hurts me when I cry
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04UTFg4t8Ag

            • Baby

              OMG.. tragically hits my heart.. I’m glad you typed the lyrics.. thanks Sub..

              Loved the song.. Didn’t like the Video with the song.. hmmmm..

            • Yeah, you’re like that.
              You probably like this better.
              Seem strangely familiar?
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmfcYli6vV4

            • Baby

              Good Lord..

            • C’mon, that’s what love is like.
              Funniest video to coolest song ever.
              Mayer Fucking Hawthorne.

            • Baby

              OK.. It is a cool song and video.. I thought you were going to link a sappy romantic .. Kid Rock Sheryl Crow..( PS check the picture on the wall around 38)

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKFx0MMqb48

            • daisy

              That is lovely Shorp.

            • As Butch Pansy says, “I’m always this far from crying or laughing these days.” Today it’s crying.

            • On the complete other side, at an early demonstration (Detroit area), I witnessed the bridging of a gap between a mother and daughter iwhen they joined n a cause for great justice.
              I loaned a mask to mom, and watch as daughter slowly realizes that her mom has found common ground.
              Gave and gives me much hope on a micro and macro scale.
              The end to this nightmare is getting very close.
              Hold on.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5y446o7u_Q

            • Baby

              I can’t believe that I lived right down the street at the time.. Jeeze..

            • Magic happened every time.

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              I know. This I get, every day. We move forward.

            • Supper Powers

              Yes!!

            • Really Baby? Do you know what it feels like to be tossed into the RPFs RPF? It’s OK… I wouldn’t like you to know.

            • Supper Powers

              That has to be an awful memory. I’m so sorry you went through that. It’s inhuman. Baby and all of us here are glad you are out and talking it about it. It’s a true crime and something that will take time to heal. With people who love you around you, the healing will come.

            • That is really nice of you to say..

            • Baby

              No I don’t Cece.. I wouldn’t offend you and pretend to know how you feel.. I can’t imagine. I do know what it is to feel pain though..

            • It hurt deep Baby. I’ll feel better crying for you 🙂

            • Baby

              Well we will cry together my love.

              I’m a never in and my youngest daughter does not speak to me. She is a Narcissist and even went to court to keep me away from my granddaughters..

              And my identical twin sister died… and I haven’t recovered from that..

              My pain doesn’t trump yours by any means.. but some days I’m a mess.

            • Baby

              Shit I don’t know what’s worse.. A mama being disconnected from her child because of the Fuckin Cult..

              or a Child being Disconnected from her Mama because she doesn’t want her in her life anymore.

            • daisy

              I am so sorry honey. I didn’t know about your daughter until tonight. I don’t have a child but I am a daughter. I cant imagine disconnection from her.

            • Baby

              Thank you Daisy..

            • Great. Now I have something in my eye . . . again.

            • Comments can’t be blank

            • I would not be here without you guys. Thank you so much.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Is that a blue jay? Amazing photo. Timed perfectly.

            • Baby

              OMG.. that is so cool.. wow.. I love that picture Cece..

            • Baby

              I took a picture of a bird on a wire outside my house.. and it reminded me of one of my favorite songs.. so digitally added..

              You know Cece.. You are truly loved…. The Bunker has thousands rooting for you.. Tony has so many lurkers who can’t post..but are reading this and sending positive energy your way … through prayers.. positive energy and thoughts..

              I will hug you personally until you faint ..how about that..? Love baby f5

            • Supper Powers

              Not me. I’m sure it’s ok to let some of those small things pass.

              Your kids are important to focus on. Willie and Phil and so many of us are standing with you during this time. You are not alone during your fight. The pain is absorbed at the Bunker and with your real life friends, too.

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              i totally get that. We’ll fight until we ALL have our families back.

            • Phil, thank you and Willie for that.

        • Supper Powers

          Looking forward with friends is so much better! 🌸🌸🌸

          • And I do have friends. I love you guys for caring. And letting me type 🙂

            • You’re a vital part of the most weirdly wonderful community in the ether. Typing is healing. We’re listening.

            • Baby

              You come here anytime Cece.. Anytime.. The Bunker is open 24-7 365 days a year.. We never close.. You scream, vent, cry.. cuss..

              You do whatever you want.. We will give you strength somehow to get through the day/ night..

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Maybe some of us never ins don’t fully understand, but not all of us are the same and I know that our opinion doesn’t matter to some exes because we were never in,
      But i would like to think that most of us realize it was a whole different world back then for you all.
      The people in particular that I have the most sympathy for were those born in and didn’t have a choice and don’t know any other way or life. For them to break the shackles must be the hardest.

      • Yes. Like my kids. One died – killed himself. It’s a tough life. But we were doing it for the ’cause’. Crap. Thank you for caring.

        • outraged

          I’m so sorry for your loss.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          I’m sorry Cece. Disconnection is so cruel and heartbreaking and it is all for nothing. 🙁

        • JanInThePan

          How awful to have to go through something like that. So sorry.

        • UhLasare

          I’m so sorry, and also so hopeful for you and also for your still-in kiddos.

    • And now you have information (of all kinds), and a mind expanded by an idea can never go back to it’s previous size.

      • Baby

        You know sub.. that is very wise. Hmmm there is hope for you yet. ( I tease, I tease)

    • daisy

      We cannot understand, but pain is universal. We are here to support you in yours.

      • Daisy. The song my Mom sang..

          • daisy

            I look exactly like that too. It is a sweet song thanks for posting.

            • Liberated

              I used to sing that song when I rocked my baby to sleep every night, he never got tired of hearing it. As I’m writing this, I’ve realized that if I had joined the SO, (they did try), I would have never been allowed to rock him to sleep, would not have been ok. The simple, natural things that we all take for granted were forbidden in the cult, cause L Ron knew what was best for all of us.

            • daisy

              I HATE THEM , I am so glad you got to cuddle your baby.. I hope LRH is roasting in a fiery solitary bin and being forced to listen to his own tapes,

            • Liberated

              Somewhere in the guh-laxy I hope that creep is being bullied about his acne scars and rotten teeth.

            • Baby

              Hello? and Cyst.. ugh

          • Qbird

            oh my, Cece… my Mom sang this song to me too… and taught me to play it on a piano.
            oh my
            oh my
            Thank you for this.
            You gave me such a beautiful memory Cece, tonight… in your sorrow.
            I so wish I could hug you for real. I would, I would if I could.

    • OOkpik

      (((HUGS)))

    • Thirty Fricken years!

      • Take that off my 63 and it’s really 40. Tony and his friends have opened up a whole healing thing. I will heal but I’m pretty sure ‘they’ don’t want me too.

        • Baby

          Refresh

          • outraged

            ….

      • Supper Powers

        You’re here today, in the sunlight! ☀️

        • Yah no kidding. Hugs all around ((( ))))

          • Baby

            I forget who posted this one day.. I love it.. f5 ((HUGS)))

      • One of my favorite advice columns was Dear Abby and/or Ann Landers.
        Someone wrote “I’m (X) years old, and I always wanted to go to college, but I would be (X + 4) years old when I got out.”
        The response kicked my ass and stays with me today:
        “So, how old will you be if you don’t go?”

        • TexasBroad

          I had this on my fridge for several years. Stuck with me too.

          • Baby

            In my office framed..hahaha

            That and her definition of class..

            • daisy

              Definition please.

            • Baby

              “Class never runs scared.

              It is sure-footed and confident.

              It can handle anything that comes along.

              Class has a sense of humor.

              It knows a good laugh is the best lubricant for oiling the machinery of human relations.

              Class never makes excuses.

              It takes its lumps and learns from past mistakes.

              Class knows that good manners are nothing more than a series of small, inconsequential sacrifices.

              Class bespeaks an aristocracy that has nothing to do with ancestors or money.

              Some wealthy “blue bloods” have no class, while individuals who are struggling to make ends meet are loaded with it.

              Class is real.

              It can’t be faked.

              Class never tried to build itself by tearing others down.

              Class is already up and need not strive to look better by making others look worse.

              Class can “walk with kings and keep it’s virtue and talk with crowds and keep the common touch.” Everyone is comfortable with the person who has class because that person is comfortable with himself.

              If you have class, you’ve got it made.

              If you don’t have class, no matter what else you have, it doesn’t make any difference.”

              ― Ann Landers

        • I’m 63 going on 20. Does that answer your question?

      • Dice ✓

        and you are now a Cult expert on so many levels, you could make a life on that! keep going CeCe

      • Juicer77

        Hugs, Cece. I can’t imagine what it was like for you. All I can do is offer support and try to understand.

    • Nat-leficent

      “I don’t think you ‘never ins’ understand”

      Talking down to us is really helpful and productive.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Nat, NO! Not now.

        • noseinabk

          Cece and people like her would not be harmed by the learning the fact that never-ins like Tony and anons do a service to them by being informed and protesting.
          http://www.villagevoice.com/news/voice-readers-raise-thousands-for-couple-that-refused-to-spy-for-scientology-6659256

          • noseinabk

            Edited.

        • Nat-leficent

          If this place becomes known as a virtual therapy couch for exes — you all are going to start being catfished nonstop. Encourage them to get real help. Don’t try and censor me or try and change the fundamental nature of this place.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            She was in a terrible place last night. If you’d have read her extensive posts before commenting, you’d have seen that maybe a little more compassion would have been appropriate for where she was coming from at the time. There’s censoring and then there’s being careful with folks who need help. Your comment was not helpful.

            • Nat-leficent

              Okay. So new era here. Got it.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              What are going on about, Nat? New era? Changing the nature of the Bunker? WTF?

              Cece was in bad shape. She was really hurting inside. Why push her at the time? It was a dick move on your part. I don’t understand why you can’t see that?

            • Baby

              I do NOT understand it at all Hubturd.. I am just so perplexed.. dumbfounded .. Gobsmacked.. Hurt and Angry..

            • Nat-leficent

              Sent you an email because I don’t want you to think I’m a dick or not like me

            • Nat-leficent

              Sent you an email because I don’t want you to think I’m a dick or not like me.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Cool. Just replied. Thanks.

      • noseinabk

        What Cece doesn’t understand is that many bunkerites have a great deal of empathy that she never got from the cult. We are upset by the fact that the cult damages people and relationships. We are shocked ( or not) by the control the cult holds. Some ex members learn that non members can help them and some ( MR) will stick with the egotistical view that we have nothing valid to say since we are wogs.
        I think about half of the current members are salvageable (sp?) and the top followers are a lost cause.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Seriously, you too? Cece was having a bad night. No need to pile on.

          • noseinabk

            😕I think she is adorable but confused about the fact that us wogs want to help her. My intention was to defend why she may be thinking us wogs could not understand her position when I know that many of us do.

      • noseinabk
      • TheMirrorThetan

        Nat, as a never in, I let it go. Cece is a good person and It might sound or have been meant like that but she is hurting and having a bad day. We are all valuable in this fight.

      • Dice ✓

        It is extremely important that there are never in’s in Tony’s bunker.

  • daisy

    Fat Beagle knows I am sad for all the hurting bunkers today, she is letting me cuddle her. Usually she barely tolerates me.

    • Baby

      Awwwwwwww… sweet.. The good news is.. I do see my grandchildren Daisy.. and that is why I can’t come to Cleveland. I wouldn’t miss an opportunity to be with her for the world.

      My youngest hasn’t spoken to my oldest in years..

      • daisy

        So sad , sigh. No you can*t miss opportunities to see grandchildren. I know they will miss you, though.

        • Baby

          And this sweet granddaughter needs her Mimi..

    • Skinny Pughuahua is sacked out on the couch cushions. He’s a total cuddle whore. Regards to FB from SP.

    • Liberated

      Sweetest thing I’ve ever heard. Love to beagle.

  • Liberated

    Courtney Barnett is the musical quest on SNL, damn that girl’s good.

    • Ella Raitch

      Lone Star and I were talking about her the other night…I wasn’t aware she was known outside of Australia

      • Liberated

        Wait up, are you in Australia?

        • Ella Raitch

          Yep – SW corner

          • Liberated

            Love it!

          • Liberated

            Just curious, what time is it there?

            • Ella Raitch

              12.30pm Sunday

            • Liberated

              Oh my.

            • Ella Raitch

              Yep – winding down to the end of the weekend

            • Liberated

              I just love talking to someone so far away. The evil of CO$ has no boundaries.

            • Ella Raitch

              It’s amazing isn’t it. It really is 24/7 round here – and always multiple continents (when the US sleeps it’s Europe and Oceania)

            • Liberated

              I don’t know what I’d do without the bunker.

            • Ella Raitch

              I think my house would be tidier without the Bunker, but who needs that, right? Did you get to any of the book tours last year L? Going to Howdy Con?

            • Baby

              Original Painting.. Hand Printed words.. xo love baby f5

            • Ella Raitch

              Gorgreous

            • Baby

              thank you honey bunny boo boo..

            • daisy

              So beautiful , and funny. You are so beautiful , I love your heart and compassion.

            • Baby

              and I love yours daisy.. smooches..thank you.. I am touched.

            • Liberated

              No and I can’t attend Howdy Con, even though Cleveland’s only a 5 hour drive. Just can’t, are you?

            • Ella Raitch

              No – I made a four hour drive when Tony came to Perth but flying 15+ hours….can’t swing it. I did get to meet a couple of Bunkerites though. Hope to catch up with people when I do eventually venture overseas again

            • Liberated

              I would love to meet you, took forever to “get” your name. BTW, do you know Russell Crowe? Just kidding.

            • Ella Raitch

              Russell Crowe is a Kiwi !! Plus I’m on the less known, less populated western part of the country. Tim Minchin is a West Aussie, as was Health Ledger, and most of INXS

            • Liberated

              Even though Crowe has lived most of his life in Australia, you still consider him a kiwi?

            • Liberated

              Oh the irony, just changed channels, and The Insider is on–starring Russell Crowe. Ha! Still can’t believe I’m talking to someone from from W Aus. Oh well, I’ll be alright.

            • Ella Raitch

              Further irony – I’m catching up on missed episodes of The Path

            • Ella Raitch

              I’m not sure what Russell considers himself, but the Kiwis get crabky when Aussies take credit for the achievements of their countrymen and women. Don’t want Andrew Robertson on my case!

            • Baby

              OMG..hahahahha I did not know Ella’s name was one to get liberated..Hilarious.. ha thanks

            • Baby

              Ella.. OMG.. I read Liberated’s comment..and just figured out your name.. Jeeze.. Clever..

            • Ella Raitch

              I was Elar Aitch for a while but I like being Ella

            • Baby

              I am so dim.. I would not have figured out either one.. hahaha… I love Ella..fits you..

            • Vaquera

              Pan had to explain it to me last weekend. //bangs head//

            • daisy

              I would bathe
              mow my lawn
              clean my house
              pay attention to my RL friends
              brush my teeth
              and several other dull things before I discovered this wonderful community and Tony who allows us to support each other
              I fell asleep in front of the computer and did not say goodnight to all my sweet bunker bugs

            • Baby

              Oh shoot.. Brush my teeth.. I knew there was something I was supposed to do Daisy.

      • Supper Powers

        I’ll trade you two Taylor Swifts for one Kasey Chambers.

        • Ella Raitch

          Well. we gave you Iggy Azalea…

          • Supper Powers

            I’ll ship her back on my dime.

            • Ella Raitch

              xx

            • Liberated

              Just curious, what time is it there?

            • Supper Powers

              11:32pm

            • Supper Powers

              Central time.

            • Liberated

              This this was meant for Ella Raitch, sorry.

        • Ella Raitch

          Haven’t heard much from Kasey Chamber for a while – she was everywhere with ‘Not Pretty enough’

          https://youtu.be/v5rOdF9rUKI

          • Baby

            Not available in my country.. ; 0

            • Ella Raitch

              Damn – I thought Vevo would be verywhere

            • Baby

              verywhere, huh? xo

            • Ella Raitch

              I’m typing lying down ;p

            • Baby

              hahhahaha.. When I was your age Ella.. I did other things laying down.. forget typing..

  • Baby

    Cece.. this will make you smile.. It is my dog Lulu.. She’s like 13-14 .. and she rides on my little scooter with me. Right before I put my helmet on I snapped a selfie of us ( I NEVER take selfies..but wanted to see her face)

    She is in pure Heaven.. getting ready to go on a ride.. f5 I love the look on her face.

    • Supper Powers

      Is that the one who crapped all over you in the car as you were racing to the post office?

      • Baby

        hahahahha.. I’m trying to think..I had 5 at the time.. Any of the them would be capable of doing that.. Supper..

        • Supper Powers

          Well, it was a great day!

      • Baby

        WTH happened to my bottom lip..hahaha

      • TheMirrorThetan

        That tale was hilarious in a I’m glad it isn’t me, way. I will never forget that one.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Stolen for future use/blackmail.

      • Baby

        Well for God’s sake it’s not like I’m with my Boyfriend..Jeeze..

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Pool boy or lawn man?

          • Baby

            Professor..

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Touche!

    • We breath the same air Lulu. Can I tell you something?

      • Baby

        Lulu told me that you can tell her anything you want.. She’s a great listener.. Cece..

      • Baby

        Where’d ya go Cece..? Do you feel better honey ? Hope so.. I always come to the Bunker when I know I need to connect with people that understand me. Just so you feel loved by us..

    • Aslan’s Own

      You mean you aren’t a bald little baby smoking a cigarette? 😉 I tend to picture people looking like their avatars!

      ETA: Your avi isn’t bald….just very world weary.

      Love this picture. We need a video of you and your dog on your scooter!!

      • Baby

        I was on a forum once.. and someone yelled at me for having a picture of MY baby smoking and what a terrible role model I was to my kid.. OMG..

        I know.. I got to figure out how to do that Pielion.. xo

        I am going to bed.. been monitoring the Bunker for a little bit.. love you honey..xo

        • Aslan’s Own

          Ha!!! A bad role model! I’m not quite THAT delusional! I’m going to bed too. I can barely keep my eyes open. Sleep well.

        • shasha40

          You know your Bunker family Loves smoking Baby !!! :*

          • Baby

            Awww thanks shashie.. Smokin baby loves my Bunker family too.. xo

  • TexasBroad

    Goodnight moon.
    Hugs to you Cece.
    Edit…need to turn off autocorrect on new Kindle! Also, F5

    • Baby

      Beautiful.. night Broad.. love you.. xoxo sweet dreams.

      • TexasBroad

        Love back. Glad you get to see the grand but wish I would get to meet you in Ohio. Another time though Baby.

        • Baby

          One day.. yep.. I’m sure of it..xo

    • Hey That’s MY moon. How dare you 🙂

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Missionary Kid to the courtesy phone please…

    • Baby

      He hasn’t been on for a long time MLT.. I wonder if anyone has his Email..

  • Vancouverite

    I thank god for the internet and the difference in Today’s World and the information available. We’re no longer a generation of doe-eyed firebrands, willing to embrace the sacrifices of Noblehood and Fight the Man and Save the World and Go Free. The internet and all those brave souls willing to stand up, speak out and tell the taie such as Atack and all of the many on these boards – you all are the ones saving the world. You’re saving so many from Scn. You’re painting the true picture ..not the one we saw and heard, the friendly people with all the answers who offered whole-track truth and succor from this confusing life. Those who are IN are IN, they won’t read this, they won’t read or hear you/us. When you’re IN you’re blind and deaf to anything but hubbard, and mainly innoculated from the bleatings of the “SPs”. …I believe that in order to pull out and look it takes a massive trauma, a ripping of one’s world.
    Wonderful articles such as this above and all of Ortega’s and Rinder’s work, I don’t hold out weak hopes of waking up the IN… but they sure as Hell go a long way to exposing the truth and thus saving others from the trap. I love the nasty trashed horrible name that SCN has on the internet.

    Gawd bless ya all.

    • Baby

      Welcome Vancouver.. You speak the truth.. Tony, Rinder and so many have brought Facts to the forefront. Tony has covered it for 20+ years… Talk about Brave.. I can only imagine what he went through until finally today People are talking without being sued.

      Cause the Last thing MiSavage wants now is to show up in court. Asshole that he is. Thanks for joining us.. Baby..

      • Liberated

        Davie will never show up in court cause his feet won’t touch the floor when he’s sitting in the witness chair.

  • Flying High

    Popped in late and after catching up on upvoting all others just want to send out the love to Cece on her bad day today and to Baby, TexasBroad, Mymy88, Ella Raitch and all those sending compassion toward Cece. And haven’t seen the beautiful Frodis73 in a while and hope she is doing well!

    • Baby

      There were so many of us Flyin high.. I don’t want to name names because I’m sure I will leave someone out.. Thank you.

      When you muster the strength of the Bunker .. We are ” Bunker Strong..” When one is down. We are all down.

  • “Take me off your mailing list!”

    When I was working at Sunderland Org, rarely a week went by without some irate member of the public storming in, demanding to be removed from the mailing list. Our Central Files (CF) was about 8,000 so we had a lot of mugs who had bought DMSMH wanting to live a junk-mail free life. Now the Dianetics Auditing room was the first door you came to when entering the building, and so a lot of the angry customers would barge right in and demand, “Take me off your mailing list!” And as you can imagine sometimes there was a session going on and the “In Session” sign was totally ignored. I wonder how many Book One PCs or Intro Auditing sessions contain the phrase? 😀

    • Dice ✓

      “Take me off your mailing list!” kept the “Letters In” Stat… up! and they had to be checked by HCO. First when people got so Angry, they got the Dead File Tag. When i first saw all those Dead files, i asked – “are all those people dead?” – The answer was: No! but to us they are. Well well, we all die a little every day 🙂

    • You know that interrupting a session is cause for a declare. Shd I write one for you?
      Here is Pete: He decided to think for himself. Hugs Pete.

    • Intro to RPF, i got off of active CF mailings then Valley mailed me.

      Guess what?

      It ceased, twisty the psycho-hurricane is lollipops for lollygagged late-arrivals.

      As soon as they load the boat with World Class financials they head straight to Caracas, probably and if not then they had to work over a few deep-pockets i guess.

      Rather than expose fraudsters and bullies—i now have learnt to do my damnedest to not let it happen in the 1-st place as letting authorities deal with them is only allowing Same like Same to avoid shame.

      Sarbanes-Oxley et al is only how the middle-class retains an «elite» status.

      I wonder how a protected youth, splunged into the hardness of boot-camp?

      Dont even know how to say it as I have been on the wrong end of it enough to be stuck on it—in our Scn nomenclature—which is as-shown in conventional dictionaries.

      Think about it: Their marked cruiser says Call me!

      Telemarkets in competition with DM whom will have none of it.

      Soon China & DM will team to re-author IP under TPP, and the coolies can go home now.

      roll Dodge City & Matt Dillon: When Gunsmoke was actually that.

      audio-over: Huey Lewis and the News

  • Dave Reams

    Contradictions in L. Ron Hubbard’s “tech” only increase Scientology discipline … Yes indeed! Dynamic tension is such hard work!
    https://youtu.be/tEx8__ie6bg

  • DexterSka

    The problem with people learning from Hubbard is that he is just too complicated. I personally believe that it does not matter if it was his desire to be famous. The man was a monster and incredibly fascinating. He accomplished so much at the expense of others and it was all for nothing because he was miserable. He died paranoid, unable to trust anyone, and making some of the worst music known to man.

  • Dice ✓

    Jesus Christ is following me on Twitter! Hmm.. that’s Odd! F5

    • jazzlover

      That’s it! You’ve angered the gods. Bow down, and repent at the foot of Mt. Olympus promptly 🙂

      • Dice ✓

        It my Call to be the God of former God’s. Leave me alone 🙂

        • You telling me you dont know how to spot a PI-tail?

          These Popcorn Throwing Hoodlems on the front-row are not ready for me to give them the finger. ( the other post today about horse touches ) so was your call intercepted by the NSA?

          Must be I assume from the Leave me alone, but they say: Call Me!

          Boiler-room at Cedars, not the actual one in the basement at PAC▬Base, california boiler operator certification required.

          It is Millennium Aluminum TFH’s when an actual TFH should be made of Souls of Departed attached to the skull. Wandering aimlessly on exit-ramp of the 405 may assist in discovery of where they are hiding.

  • OOkpik

    Soggy eaglet out on a limb.

    • Dice ✓

      Angry birds are Angry 🙂

    • Kestrel

      Nest looks clean. Recent rains?

      • OOkpik

        It appears that it was raining but their nest has always been kept clean. As the nest dries the adults will even turn the top layer of bedding over a bit at a time to allow it to dry underneath. They are fascinating.

  • Fink Jonas

    “I don’t believe
 that there is any reason whatsoever for this universe to be here except some fellow called the 
devil or something that built it”
    I have an issue with this phrase, I don’t see why he has to vilify the MEST universe, I always thought the MEST universe to be a beautiful thing with the suns, stars, rivers mountains, sunsets, etc etc, and he is doing it only because he can’t shamelessly assign to himself the credit of creating the MEST universe, because nobody would believe him, otherwise he would have done so.
    Didn’t he said that stupidity was assigning the wrong creator to something? well he is being stupid by assigning it to the devil, and he would have been even more stupid if he assigns it to himself.
    This is another phrase where he attempts to shift the magnetic poles of main stream thinking, we all know who the layman thinks made the MEST universe? well he is calling God the Devil just to switch the poles and to degrade the MES universe, again just because it isn’t his creation. He was really resented with he MEST universe because “it didn’t give him any admiration back”, he said so in one of his lectures (I don’t remember which one) but I remember reading the transcript to one of the lectures where he mentions that, what a pig.

    • OOkpik

      Much of what he said was tongue in cheek. He should have bitten that tongue off and spared a LOT of people a LOT of pain.

    • He was/is a pig. Perfect one word for him. I am one who used to clap for him like he was the almighty truth. It’s over Ron. Even the ones that loved you are leaving… where is that door?

      • Baby

        Happy to see you Cece.. I’ve been thinking of you..

        I hate LRH .. Karma.. I love it.. and you know he is burning in hell.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I used to clap for him too Cece. However, I never liked the hip, hip hooray!

        • Baby

          Good morning sweet Rev Mama.. Brand new day today..

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            G’Mornin’ Baby and Cece too if still here. New day, right! Hugs

  • Jimmy3

    Last new comment was 6 hours ago? What kind of creepy Bunker ghost town is this?

    • Baby

      New post silly

  • raindog308

    I have a feeling a Scientologist would emphasize the “I’m not asking you to agree” in the sense that Hubbard is saying he doesn’t want you to BELIEVE but rather to experience, it’s true for you if it’s true for you, etc. Not defending his insanity at all but I’m wondering what the context of the quoted paragraph from the Philadephia course is. I’m not wondering enough to go pay money for it though 🙂

  • Ann B Watson

    Hi Jon, Thank you for a post that was definitely illuminating for me.As the years roll on and I look back on incidents in my life,those who were heroes to me as a totally Ron-Aided very young lady,perhaps I was told fabled stories about them by senior members.Being newly love missiled,I soaked all up in one gulp.Had me hook,line & sinker! Lol
    However I am sorry John’s last years were not kind.My late Dad tried to drink himself to death @ 66 when told he had vascular dementia.Took him 12 years to do so.Also the way Ron went.I can’t feel 100% sympathy for him anymore.David gives me such a headache I do not hesitate to not read Shermanspeak every chance I get! All your work is deeply appreciated.Always

  • Anna

    This week I’ve been reading “The Road to Xenu” by Margery Wakefield. In chapter 3, she’s writing about one of her courses where she had to read an essay from Hubbard (My Philosophy), which says:
    “No man has any monopoly upon the wisdom of this universe”

    And just after that, another essay comes (Safeguarding Technology), in which dear Ron wrote:
    “Scientology is the only workable system Man has…… No other system has. So
    realize it has no competitor”

    To be, or not to be…. has no monopoy, or has monopoly???