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How Scientology ‘caretakers’ could stand by and watch Lisa McPherson deteriorate

Lisa_McPherson3

 
Inside the room there was hardly anything other than a bed and the person being given the silent treatment. Outside the room, there was someone watching to make sure that the door stayed closed and the person inside didn’t get out.

It was Scientology’s first “Introspection Rundown,” and it happened more than 40 years ago on a ship sailing the Atlantic that was called the Apollo. The person inside the cabin was a member of the crew named Bruce Welch, who had temporarily lost his mind.

The person sitting outside, providing security, was a young Australian Scientologist named Mike Rinder.

“It was my first job on the Apollo. To sit outside the cabin with Bruce Welch. And I can tell you, no one interacted with him at all,” Rinder told us recently.

The former Scientology spokesman, who left the church in 2007, remembers that Welch had not only had a psychotic break, but that he was a large man and an intimidating one.

“I was terrified of that guy. He was huge, and violent,” Rinder said.

The “Commodore” of the Apollo, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, decided that the best thing to do with Welch was to put him in a small cabin and deprive him of interaction. Whenever anyone came in contact with him, they should not speak. Without anything to upset him, Hubbard figured, then Welch would calm down to the point where he could be audited — Scientology’s version of counseling.

Rinder says Welch eventually did calm down. But not before destroying the cabin.

“He tore up the mattress and threw it out the porthole. He ripped up the locker and the bed. They all went out the porthole too. There was nothing left in the room at all. But there was also nothing to hurt himself with either,” he noted.

After Welch became calm, he got some auditing and it seemed to help.

Hubbard then announced, with typical bravado, that he’d discovered the sure-fire way to handle any psychosis, and he had also eliminated the reason for the psychiatric profession to exist. From then on, if a Scientologist went “Type III” — had a mental breakdown — they would be handled with the Introspection Rundown.

Whether there was ever any validity to Hubbard’s theory or not, Rinder told us, it was clear that Lisa McPherson, in late 1995, was never properly subjected to the conditions of an Introspection Rundown as it was known.

Rinder pointed out that Janis Johnson, the senior medical officer at the Flag Land Base, was usually in the cabana room at the Fort Harrison Hotel where Lisa was being held, as well as two caretakers — a total of three people, much of the time. Even though they didn’t speak to Lisa, their mere presence provided constant stimuli. “She was also in a room that had mirrors. And one wall was glass. That’s not how it’s supposed to be. The theory, whether you agree with it or not, is that you reduce the stimuli and the person eventually calms down. They’re supposed to be in something that’s like a padded cell, with no one to talk to,” Rinder explained. “As soon as you have someone there to have a reaction with, you’re not doing the Introspection Rundown.”

And Rinder is quick to point out that he’s not saying a proper Introspection Rundown would have helped Lisa, but only that she never got one. “It wasn’t even something that resembled an Introspection Rundown,” he said.

Instead, Lisa remained agitated and violent, day after day. And each day, the people overseeing her kept waiting for her to calm down as they literally watched her deteriorate from lack of food and water.

“I think they were trying to get her calm enough to be able to audit her. And they were hoping, each time, that the next day she would be calm enough so they could audit her. And none of the people who were there had a clue what they were doing,” Rinder said. (Rinder himself was at Int Base in California and was unaware of Lisa McPherson’s situation while this was going on.)

Janis Johnson oversaw the women who worked as caretakers — some of them had a little nursing or medical experience, but most did not. But running things was Flag senior case supervisor Alain Kartuzinski. We’ve written before about how Kartuzinski, a Scientology counselor with no medical background, overruled the three actual medical doctors who were either on hand or a short distance away and knew about Lisa’s situation. In interviews with police, one of the professionals — a soon-to-be licensed dentist named David Houghton — admitted that they deferred to Kartuzinski because he was in charge of Lisa’s “spiritual” needs.

(Kartuzinski himself, in an interview with police, didn’t bring up the Introspection Rundown, and when police did, asking Kartuzinski if Lisa had “asked” to be put on the rundown, he said, “No. Lisa, she wanted to rest.”)

We wrote at the beginning of this series about how involved Scientology leader David Miscavige was with Lisa McPherson’s auditing as he declared her “Clear” in early September. This was after she had gone through an Introspection Rundown in late June and July because she had experienced a mental breakdown and had admitted to having suicidal thoughts. Despite that happening only a few weeks before, Miscavige pushed Lisa through Clear while he was at the Flag base.

Since then, Miscavige had returned to Int Base in California. But was he aware of what was happening with Lisa McPherson at the Fort Harrison Hotel?

“He was getting reports from RTC people,” Rinder said.

The Religious Technology Center (RTC) is the nominally controlling entity of Scientology (we say “nominally” because it’s actually the Sea Organization, which has no legal status, that actually controls the entire Scientology movement, with Miscavige its only true “captain” in charge). Sea Org workers consider it a special status to work in RTC directly with Miscavige. And he also had RTC representatives in other locations. At Flag, it was Angie Trent and Rikke Jensen who reported to Miscavige as RTC reps, Rinder said.

Alain Kartuzinski may have played dumb with police, but in 1995 he would have been very aware of Lisa McPherson’s history and David Miscavige’s role in it. In the summer, Lisa had successfully completed an Introspection Rundown, but since then she had been “case supervised” by David Miscavige himself, who had declared her Clear after he had berated Kartuzinski for not handling her case correctly up to that point. Now, just a few months later, Lisa was a raving lunatic and Kartuzinski would have been under immense pressure. Miscavige’s pet project, Lisa McPherson, was invalidating Miscavige as a technical expert by losing her grip on reality so soon after he’d declared her Clear. Kartuzinski would have been hard pressed to “make things go right” and get Lisa calmed down and into auditing or he would face the wrath of Miscavige.

“To report to Miscavige that his C/Sing and programming had resulted in a psychotic break would have been suicide for [the RTC reps],” former top Scientology official Mark “Marty” Rathbun noted on his blog in 2012.

So between the terrified Scientology executives and the non-speaking caretakers, Lisa McPherson continued to get the same non-treatment, day after day.

And on Monday, December 4, 1995, Lisa McPherson was fading fast.

Janis Johnson said she peeked in at 8 p.m. that night and Lisa was in bed so she left.

Rita Boykin noticed that Lisa had a swollen jaw on the left side of her face, and when Rita tried to feed her, Lisa complained of pain in her throat.

Heather Hoff, meanwhile, could see now that Lisa had bruises on her legs, and feet, and her arms, and Heather assumed it was from all the times Lisa had been violent.

But now, Lisa was hardly moving, and when Heather tried to get her to eat something, she took in a little or just spit it out.

It had been sixteen days since Lisa had been brought to the Fort Harrison Hotel, and sixteen days of being fed protein shakes and herbal supplements and very little real food and water. And after sixteen days, Lisa McPherson was dying in front of her caretakers’ eyes.

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Our book tour is concluded for now. (But you can re-experience it through this nifty interactive map!) We’ll let you know about future appearances. Previous events: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29), Sydney (10/23), Melbourne (10/25), Adelaide (10/28), Perth (10/30)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on December 4, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • richelieu jr

    “Caretakers”? Really? It would seem Hubbard’s NewSpeak has infiltrated even the bunker.

    How many “caretakers” dud it take to effectively patrol the wire at Auschwitz?

    • flyonthewall

      7? Idk, do I get a prize if I guess right?

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    TMZ is reporting that actor Robert Loggia is dead at 85.

    http://www.tmz.com/2015/12/04/robert-loggia-dead/

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)
    • cedilla

      Elfego Baca

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Correct.

        • Sherbet

          Also a TV series about a burgler, THE Cat, and he played El Gato.

    • Juicer77

      I loved him in Return To Me (with Minnie Driver and David Duchovny). The supporting cast was so good, and his group of card playing buddies including the late Carol O’Connor was a pure delight. You know they must have ad-libbed most of that dialog.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        I haven’t seen that one. I’ll have to see if I can get hold of it.

        • Juicer77

          Directed by Bonnie Hunt, I believe. Just a delightful movie (except for a couple parts at the beginning). The scene where Carol O’Connor is praying in the chapel gets me every time.

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            D’oh! Don’t tell me about it – I like not to know anything about the movies I am about to watch πŸ™‚

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        And as General Grey in Independence Day.

        “Tell them how to bring those sons of bitches down!”

  • Liberated

    Everytime I think about little Davey in an orange jumpsuit, I suddenly realize ” oh, no they don’t make them that small” Bummer !!!!!!

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    It breaks my heart to click the little red heart to recommend this discussion. I do not like today’s post but it is important to read it. I am not looking forward to tomorrow’s post.

  • Liberated

    Forgive me if this has already been said, but is it possible for Tony to win a Pulitzer for this expose’ ?

  • nottrue

    ok…………………..ok……..Maybe better not to post it at all. DM was making me sick to my stomach

    • flyonthewall

      that’s like my fav kind of babbling, just saying

    • Liberated

      I just realized the dwarf has a lisp.

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        That’s his Philly accent.

    • One Human

      Now I just hate DM more.

    • Tony Ortega

      Might have been better to post this after the series is done? Maybe?

    • flyonthewall

      haha, you got yelled at πŸ˜‰

    • Robert Eckert

      That’s really infuriating.

  • aegerprimo

    Does anyone have the link to the recent Tampa Bay Times article about the court case regarding the LMT injunction regarding protesting on the sidewalks (public property) in front of the Co$ Flag buildings in Clearwater?
    I KNOW I saw a link here over the past couple of days.
    Thanx for the help! β™₯

  • new bollocks https://www.scientologybollocks.com/?p=6805

    bonus gifs

    okay, it’s staged, but still… http://i.imgur.com/OF8aE06.gifv

    athletic kitteh http://i.imgur.com/NAN4Kq0.gifv

    • Eclipse-girl

      the part missing from the cat gif is when the cat knocks down all the photos

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Did the CO$ Rev. really speak at the vigil or did he just show up and then release his statement? I can’t find any reference to him in any of the legit news articles – just in the CO$ press releases. Anyone see coverage of the event where he spoke? I find it suspicious that anyone would allow a speaker w/an anti-psych spiel at a moment when so many folks will need mental health services to deal with this trauma.

      • I once tried trying to confirm a scientology “positive” story on this PR site….. once!

  • Supper Powers

    This is what I walk by every day either to or from work. Today, I counted 14.
    (F5)

    • One Human

      Way cool!
      I’ve had the opportunity to spend minutes in that same sort of polite stare down with a couple this season.

    • flyonthewall
    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      That is a beautiful walk to work, Supper!

    • Susan B.

      Are you in Ohio by any chance SP? When I visit my folks in Cleveland I get to see the deer in their yard. I keep telling my parents to try different things to keep the deer from eating flowers in the yard but they’ve given up. I was there last summer and my Dad warned me not to plant any flowers. And that was not so much because of the deer I think as it was because he doesn’t get around like he used to and doesn’t want to deal with expired annuals.

  • TOT: Note to self and perhaps a helpful hint to others, if writing notes/projects in shorthand, make sure you know what the fuck you’re writing. My second sentence has something I cannot decipher. Second fucking sentence. I have no clue what word it is as it’s a word I used to describe something, “They referred to it as the _____who the fuck knows_____”. I know it’s br, then the symbol for -ing, then r. But ‘bringer’ does NOT fit, nor do I think it’s a word. FFS

    The perils of shorthand!!!! I’ll figure it out, or think of another word to use as an alternative πŸ˜‰

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Been there, done that πŸ˜‰

      • sooooo frustrating!!!!! Typing along just fine and then, record scratch, DAFUQ is this?!?!?!? No clue no clue. I’ve rewritten it, thinking it might ‘trigger’ the word but nope. I clearly know it’s br- -ing -er and I clearly know that’s not a word and that’s not a descriptive word, as that’s what this would should be. GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • James Morris

          Hah! Ya gotta go allll the way back t’ when ya first thought up the thing ya needed to remember!

          I hate having to look for whatever triggered the need to write it down. I could go through the whole house, wasting an hour and STILL not figure out the squibble. Horrors: it coulda been a mistake you forgot to scratch out!

          • no, this isn’t a mistake…..it’s my bunker xmas project for this year…..i have things crossed out, but not this…..i have no clue what this word is and there’s no clue what it could be!!!

            i’ll look online in one of those dictionaries that has alternative words as i used that word i can’t decipher to describe a word i CAN decipher……i know this word starts with BR and has -ing- and ends in -er so i should be able to find it that way…..

            • James Morris

              A picture, maybe? We have SOooo many eyeballs connected to brains.
              Unless it’s a surprise for us…

            • Just posted in reply to someone else….here ya go….troublesome shorthand underlined in red….
              http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misstia/5549708/973703/973703_800.jpg

              ETA: yes it’s a surprise for y’all…..but one word or sentence won’t give it away πŸ™‚

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I have NO clue. Lol. Sorry!

            • James Morris

              Gah!
              I get hung up on the vowel!
              Even peering at it from the edge of the screen doesn’t help, neither upside down. The answer gonna be so simple I’ll feel stoopid!
              Br, br, br -eh- ing g g r…ahhh!

            • i have a feeling you’re right…it’s gonna be so simple…..if it comes to me, i WILL post what that word was!!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Branding?

            • no, good guess….in shorthand the ‘and’ is sort of a hill, sort of reverse the dip down i have in the center and that’s the ‘and’ symbol…..

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Maybe this can help:

              http://www.crosswordsolver.org/

            • thank you!!! πŸ™‚

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Braiding
              Bracing
              Braking
              Bragging
              Breaking
              Brambling
              Branching
              Brainwashing
              Brazing
              Breaching
              Breastfeeding
              Breathing
              Breeching
              Breeding
              Brewing
              Bricklaying
              Bridging
              Briefing
              Broadcasting
              Broiling
              Brokering
              Bronzing
              Brooming
              Browning
              Browsing
              Bruising
              Brushing

            • wow THANK YOU Johnny!!!

            • James Morris

              Gotta go: family upkeep.

              However, the picture has been on my back burner, mentally.
              I’m going to step onto a broken limb and suggest the maybe you meant
              “They refer to it as the fringer”,
              where you meant ‘f’ instead of ‘b’.

              😬😬

        • salin

          Looks like something was chilly. B-r-r.

          • well it starts br……ends in er…and in the middle is ing/ong/ang….though i doubt ang, cuz with the -er it would change the symbol to a ‘j with a dot’…..

            • salin

              Without the context of the surrounding sentences (which you can’t divulge πŸ˜€ ), I don’t know that I am much help. My shorthand isn’t as throrough/systematic as yours (not nearly so many clues), so I am practiced at using the context.

              btw – how are the ribs?

            • the surrounding sentences/context won’t help…..i will email it to you in a few, but it really won’t help, you’ll see why πŸ™‚

              ribs still popped out…..annoying as fuck!

        • Robert Eckert
    • cedilla

      “The perils of shorthand!!”

      Understandable.

      You studied the “Dooneese Shorthand.”
      f5

      http://www.kissradio.ca/files/1337539228_kristen-wiig-snl-dooneese-maharelle_1-637×452.jpg

      • HAHA!!!! In reality it’s forkner shorthand and it’s the only thing I learned in high school! πŸ™‚

        the troublesome word underlined in red….

        http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misstia/5549708/973703/973703_800.jpg

        • cedilla

          “the troublesome word underlined in red….”

          Damn.
          The Bunker can figure this out.

          • One Human

            Are there any pharmacists in the house?

          • cedilla

            “I have no clue what word it is as it’s a word I used to describe something”

            Ok. Brr?

            Were you chilly?

            • no, it’s a descriptive word…..i blacked out what they referred to as the _____ because what it originally is has no baring on what they call it—–i DO remember that…..what the fuck that was though i have no clue!!! a few pages in, as i type up my snippets to start putting them together, i switched to printing—whole words πŸ™‚ with some forays into shorthand…..

              example: We call this website ‘the bunker’ others might call it the ___________ br -ing -er….???? Some people call my street Robinette Ct., others call it [land of misfit toys πŸ˜‰ ]

              i KNOW that’s br….i know the swoop is the symbol for -ing or -ong -ung and i know -r is for -er….it shouldn’t be this hard….yet it is…..gah!!!

            • Rasha

              Ha HA! So I was RIGHT!

            • cedilla

              Gothcha.
              It’s maddening.
              It will come to you.
              It will.

            • i hope!!

        • Rasha

          “Dyslexic and eN(redacted, assumed “-ebriated”)
          -a fellow walks into a “bra”…”

          • cedilla

            “-a fellow walks into a “bra”…”

            “I’ll take two of those”

            • Rasha

              BAHAHA!!!

    • Rasha

      I write notes about things that crack myself up, and read them later in utter blank “huh?”

      “cmmrcial at stove, music, turn (something) see (something, something) and scream (something) Pillsbury (something) doy, smash w/rolling pin”

      …yup. Not a clue. Hilarious, though. Okay, I’ll start in on the comments while I make dinner now. Hi, Bunks.

  • Susan B.

    Thank you for writing these installments of Lisa’s story. It must have been hard to write them.

    If we all shed tears in reading this it’s a good thing because dear Lisa was mostly likely too damaged by her captors to cry tears herself. This makes my heart heavy. Physically heavy. Blessings to all of the ex-Scions and current “Scions within” and “never-ins” who are working to turn the tide. You all deserve so much recognition for what you do and you deserve good health, healing and abundance in your lives.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Every time i read about Lisa ..( and others ) …people who are being ..like.. in your face abused ( the other woman Tony wrote about who was trapped in a double wide with an ingrate ) …i think of some people who have used the Hitler / Nazi analogy when describing DM . I gotta tell you ….even some Nazi’s helped the Jews ….there were enough Germans who risked their lives to save the Jews …that Oscar winning movies have been made about them . But ..not one single scientologist …helped Lisa . Not one . They even drove past ER’s …while she lay dying and helpless . So ..people fearing ACTUAL Nazi’s …and not some short little twat who barely comes up to my tits …risked their lives to do the right thing . The people in that room …jesus christ …i think we all know ..not one of them would have hidden Anne Frank .They would have turned her in for 2 pieces of silver .

    This has been a long week

    • Nat-leficent

      This is how I feel about Lisa:
      http://data.whicdn.com/images/14197892/large.jpg

      • Vaquera

        • Susan B.

          Beautiful! Very soothing. : )

          • Vaquera

            I’m glad you see it that way. For me, it’s cold and bleak, like the compassion shown Lisa.

  • salin

    o/t So for months(?) Mom had been getting calls (scam no doubt) about her ‘windows computer’ (she has never owned anything but Macs). I intercepted many and kept saying we don’t have a windows computer. Clearly they don’t cross the name off the list because of this – which makes me think she was on the list due to her age and potential confoundability (otherwise why keep making calls to a house hold that does not have a windows computer.) Just got *another* call. Same as the last 10 – until the last line. We’ll see if my theory as to why they kept calling even after having the info that we don’t have a windows computer after this call. SC = scam caller

    SC: Is this Mrs. (salin’s mom)?
    No, this is her daughter.
    SC: Can I speak with Mrs. (salin’s mom)?
    What is this in regards to?
    SC:This is a technician’s call about her Window’s computer.
    We don’t have a Window’s computer,
    and my Mother died last week.

    He did end the call with “I am so sorry.” Whatever. Damned predatory scamming vultures.

    • Rasha

      They are foul.

      • salin

        At least the “IRS” stopped calling. But there is a credit card, “critical issue” that has to be dealt with today! That keeps calling.

        • Missionary Kid

          If you saw the movie Paper Moon, you’ll notice that the Ryan O’Neil character used death notices to prospect for his con of overpriced bibles. It’s a either a variation of that con or one that depends on someone being relatively unsophisticated about their computers.

          • salin

            Yep. Maybe not all of the scam calls. But especially the Windows/computer scams (fluster the receiver of the call.) There is so much info on the internet – even if one never entered it, that it makes the obit data gathering seem primitive.

            Love the Paper Moon reference.

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            I saw ‘Paper Man’. Good movie, but no computers :-/

            • Missionary Kid

              It preys on the desire of people to be viewed as religious.

        • Madison KinSmed

          Don’t admit you owe anything. Tell them to put it in writing and mail it to the address they have on record. Do not confirm or deny any address, phone #s, credit cards and/ accounts, ss#s, nothing they offer you. Went thru this with my dad and my mom. I think they do read the obits for their victims.

          • salin

            Great advice.

            They seek out those who might be vulnerable and thus less cautious.

    • StudentOfLife

      I only have a cell phone to contact me by and I get calls about student loans I have outstanding. I paid off my 19K in student loans in full by the late ’80s. I ask to get taken off the list and they still call. And they don’t apologize even. Caller ID never shows a full number so I just don’t answer anymore. But I got three today already.

      • salin

        Ugh!

      • Missionary Kid

        Have you put your number on the “do not call” list for solicitations?

        • Sherbet

          That seems to be only a temporary fix. I’ve done it, and after a while, I start getting scammers again.

          • Missionary Kid

            When they call, get as much information as you can, then tell them that you are on the DNC list, and that they are subject to a fine, and that you are reporting them to the FTC. https://complaints.donotcall.gov/complaint/complaintcheck.aspx

            • Davka

              Scammers don’t care about DNC violations, but it won’t hurt to report them. The issue is many people don’t understand that there are DNC exemptions that permit calls under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act and the Telemarketing Sales Rule, such as the existing business relationship exemption. The key us to get yourself on the company’s DNC list in addition to the national DNC. Won’t eliminate everything but in theory with the legit ops, it should help.

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly. Charities are exempt.

            • Davka

              Yup. And that all relates to sales calls. Those exemptions don’t pertain to service calls – so collections calls can still be made regardless.

            • Missionary Kid

              Service calls are only supposed to be to clients who have done business with them within a certain period, IIRC.

              I’d give them the number for the local org, if one is close.

            • Davka

              HA!!!

      • OTD:OutTheDoor

        Yep. I get mailings about student loan crap (lower your payments! consolidate with our help! government program!) and it’s all b.s.

      • Madison KinSmed

        Sometimes old debt is sold to collection agencies even when you’ve paid it or the statute of limitations have expired. I went thru this with an old security deposit – don’t admit anything, tell them to put it in writing and if they keep calling, get their address and send a letter telling them you owe nothing and if they keep bothering you, you will contact your state’s attorney general.

    • Observer

      I can’t even fathom the depths to which the scammers of the elderly have sunk. Disgusting.

      • cedilla

        Yep.
        Such as what I call “the catheter commercial channels.”
        The Time Warner Cable “900’s hundreds”

        The “hearing aids” channels.” etc.
        Trebeck Insurance channels.
        ……………………………………………………………………………………….
        Edit to add:
        Thank God for Mineral Ice.
        Seriously.
        Good stuff.

        • salin

          *chuckle*, How True.

      • salin

        Fortunately, although at times her short term memory was a bit … challenging, she was sharp as a tack. With her long term memory she knew to never give an answer til she got more information, or had one of her kids do a little research. The scammers never give you time to do research. That is what we need to broadcast. Regardless the fear or pressure to act *now* don’t until you confer with other people, and NEVER commit to any action or monetary transaction in the span of one continuous phone call.

      • Liberated

        You have no idea —- just hang up the phone.

    • 9001

      A friend fell for the “microsoft tech support” scam a few days ago. I thought everyone knew to hang up. Can’t believe she gave them remote access over teamviewer and they Syskeyed her. Locked/Ransom scam. I only have Linux HirenBCD to get someone back in if they have up to windows 7. My tools don’t work with UEFI/Win8. Had to give laptop back until I update rescue tools. Couldn’t boot from any linux version. Glad you’ve posted this as a warning to our community.

      • salin

        Grrrr. The combination of ‘fear’ or what could go wrong if you don’t follow their directions, and ‘authority’ (“microsoft tech support”) can be powerfully persuasive.

        Glad you are in a position to walk some folks out of the lock so they don’t have to pay the ‘ransom’.

        • 9001

          Everyone has to ask themselves “Why would Microsoft call me”? They make and sell software. Always fake calls.
          I’ve got some VM’s set up for them when they call me πŸ˜‰

          • salin

            VMs?

            • 9001

              Virtual Machines. Available for free from Oracle Virtual box. Other VM’s available too. You can install on top of your operating system and everything works inside the VM. When they think they are getting into your system they’re only in a virtual machine. Good to waste their time or lay traps.

            • salin

              Love It!

            • 9001

              Everyone should use these VM’s. Their good for testing software and an extra level of security (when needed)

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I’ve never even heard of them, let alone know how to use one.

            • 9001

              Really easy. Just install Oracle Virtual box like normal software. Then add machines as an iso image:)

              ETA: Microsoft have downloadable machines here

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I guess when you’ve done it a couple of times it would be easy. Thanx for the tip!

            • 9001

              It’s painless! Only done this myself recently. Some fantastic youtube videos on this if you want me to post a link I will. F&*k it here is my favourite video as to how to track these shits

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKhD7pF59WE

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Cool! Thanx! It’s 2 AM over here, so I think I will have to look at it tomorrow. Also I have had a couple of beers, so best do it in the morning πŸ™‚

            • OTD:OutTheDoor

              That is all valuable info. Just watched part of the video. A friend of mine in IT is always telling me about security issues.

            • Madison KinSmed

              You’re good!

            • Sherbet

              I thought you had Volunteer Ministers lined up to handle the phone calls!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Me too, at first. Lol.

    • Liberated

      I just went through the exact same thing, sum-bags go thru obits. I got several calls from the “IRS” saying I was being sued for back taxes. Also from credit card vultures. Don’t give them the time of day.

      • salin

        There was a warrant for my arrest at the local sheriffs office because I was suspected of tax fraud, and they were going to freeze all of my assets the same day which would take 6 years to unfreeze, even if I was found innocent. Or so the phone scammer told me.

        • Sherbet

          Don’t worry. We’ll come visit you in Leavenworth. (Doggone scammers!)

        • Qbird

          Bwahahaha ~ I got one one these too. I asked him his name… Tom Dawson, he says.
          I say, I don’t think you’re legit bc in this country the IRS doesn’t operate this way…
          and I laughed! He said, “You think this is funny? We are sending people to arrest you!”
          I laughed even louder & he hung up on me!

          • salin

            High Five Qbird!!! Wish I could broadcast your response and the result across the world. Fear. Trumped Fear. Faced down by laughter. End Threatening Call.

            • Sherbet

              My husband got one recently, a heavily-accented voice saying it was “Charlie Brown,” and Mr. Sherb starting laughing so hard, he couldn’t stop. He wanted to ask to have Peppermint Patty called to the phone, but he was laughing too hard.

            • salin

              I won’t talk to anyone but Pig Pen! Schroder doesn’t have rank!

    • They recently busted a local branch of that scam in Toronto as part of an international operation, so hopefully that’ll die off. (In a fire, by preference.)

      • salin

        Here’s to hoping.

    • Madison KinSmed

      Salin, I’m so sorry you have to put up with this. And, I’m sorry about your mom. It sucks to lose a parent, no matter how old you are. ((((Hugs))))

      • salin

        Thank you Madison. Appreciate the sentiment and the hugs.

    • Sherbet

      I get lots of those calls salin, some variation on, “This is Windows Tech Support, and we’re getting an error message from your computer.” Last one I got (last week), I told the guy, “You really want me to fall for this scam? Then give your telephone number, and I’ll call you back.” And he hung up.

      • salin

        I like that response (and result)!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Keep them on the line for an hour or so, then tell them you’re just messing. Worked for me!

      • salin

        Good advice. Troll the scammers. I’ll try it.

    • ze moo

      Youtube has some great send ups of that scam. One got an email through to my mother last year. The scammers said they were with ‘windows’ and she allowed them remote access. Then they tried the ransom bit on her, 150 dollars marked down to 100 dollars if they gave a credit card number right then.

      Luckily, my dad called me and I put a stop to that. But I did have to drive 300 miles and spend 3 days formatting and reloading all her programs back in. All she lost was a collection of pics and jokes from her friends. I was there when another ‘ I am Barry calling from Windows’ {said in an Indian accent} call came in. I kept the bastard on the phone for 20 minutes and then asked him what would Krishna would do? When he called me a ‘mother…something’, I hung up. I wished I had recorded the whole thing.

      There are so many scams, and one always has be on their toes.

      • Sherbet

        I know a very well-educated man who fell for the “grandson has been detained in Haiti/England/somewhere or lost all his money or had his passport stolen, and he needs $2,000 and doesn’t want to tell his parents, so, please Gramps, can you wire the money?” And he did. OMG.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I had a co-worker once who always bragged about working 20 years for IBM, so he new everything about computers. I came into his office one day, and his screen was locked with what looked like a Microsoft message about outdated anti-virus on his work computer. He was typing in his credit card info FOR THE THIRD TIME when I stopped him. This was his work computer – if your anti-virus is outdated the IT-dept will update it for you – you don’t have to pay for this.

          He never bragged about his 20 years at IBM again. Luckily, I don’t think they ever took any money from him.

        • Davka

          Someone once called me and told me my brother had been in an accident, pistol whipped, and demanded ransom money. Scared the hell out of me until I got hold of him by text.

          • Missionary Kid

            What I’d do is ask where to send the money, and tell them that it’ll be there in half an hour. When you don’t send it, keep stalling when they call back. Waste their time.

            • Davka

              I did, but there was still a thought in the back of my mind – what if this s real? Gah. Blargh. Blech.

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s what they prey on: doubt.

            • Davka

              Stupid evil people in the world.

      • salin

        smooches, ze moo. Your actions to deflect make me smile.

        Love the Bunker – I started with a mini-rant after a stupid call, when I am still in an edgy space. Responses grow to a great resource for of recognition different scams, and some successful approaches to not just end the call, but to end future calls. xoxo.

  • Bleuler

    Ok, been reading all of Tony’s Lisa posts, and i read the story before. But for a psychiatric perspective here goes:

    What LRH “came up with” is not entirely untrue. Sharp reduction of stimuli MAY in CERTAIN cases be enough to terminate a psychotic episode. And stimuli reduction is very often part of the treatment of certain psychoses, especially those of a manic variety asm part of a bipolar type 1 disease. Now that being said. like a lot of other things that Flubtard “invented” this is not news, and it wasn’t news 40 years ago either. Stimuli reduction had been tried in the early 20th century, long before other active psychiatric treatments were available. Also note the the some and may above. Seriously if this was all we’ve ever had to do my life on call would have been so much easier, in a 24h shift i can easily deal with 7 full-blown psychoses (that’s Type III for you still in). If all I ever had to answer when the intern called was “Shut them in a room and don’t talk to them” I would have easy-peasy shifts.

    Whilst stimuli reduction is still part of treatment in real, evidence based psychiatric treatments (That’s eeebil psychs implanting evil on your whole track if you’re still in) we have many other treatment opportunities nowadays. Mainly they are pharmacological. Sedatives would be the first-line, and as told in an earlier post this was suggested in poor Lisa’s case, without speaking authoritatively about a case that I (obviously) was not part of I can say that generally only using sedatives may be enough for some patients early on in the episode.

    If this is not enough, any competent medical professional these days will state without doubt that you need anti psychotics, these drugs whilst they have have side-effects WILL greatly help in terminating a psychotic episode. In some cases this is enough, break the episode and then taper treatment. If there is a recurrence longer treatment is obviously necessary. Of course this would preclude you from being audited and if send yo for some very expensive bogus-sauna treatments but it’s based on research (not LRH, i made it up whilst popping pinks and greys whilst chugging rum research).

    • Observer

      A broken clock is right twice a day.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Ok Bleuler, thank you for a reality check. Yes, psychiatry is real and helps people. Lisa could have been saved. Sedatives, maybe anti psychotics, and medical care, IV fluids if needed. This cult killed her. Hello?

    • Bluenose Ghost

      Maybe you could answer this for me: I googled chloral hydrate when it was first mentioned in Tony’s account of Lisa’s last weeks, and I see that it is not only a sedative, but possibly a hypnotic. What sort of effect could this have had on someone already going through a psychotic break? It seems like a rather inappropriate medication for people in such circumstances.
      (Apologies if this has already been discussed in previous days)

      • Bleuler

        Chloral hydrate is outdated, and it was relatively outdated 20 years ago too (the Z-hypnotics came in 1986, and even before that there were plenty of alternatives, but that really killed it). However even if there were better alternatives Chloral hydrate might still have helped, being given on the earliest days of Lisa’s psychotic episode.

        Simple sleep cures a surprising number of conditions, and when sleep doesn’t come natural one can induce it. Sleep tends to be one of the major factors we loook at/ask about when someone present with psychosis. This is simply due to the fact that major sleep disturbance is so very common in the days/weeks before one finally presents at the Psych-ER. If one is so inclined the theory can be tested by staying awake for half a week or so, one’s grip on reality WILL start giving in, and eventually producing what we psychs call psychosis.

    • salin

      Appreciate your weighing in. Responsive and dynamic treatment based on medical research and practice, and varied based on patient’s condition and response to the initial steps sounds far more effective than Hubbard’s ‘total de-simulation’ under every circumstance, to be carried out by non-trained personnel who keep rigidly to the program regardless of the person’s condition.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      So once again hubbard steals from someone else, and claims it is his own invention.

    • aegerprimo

      Lisa did not have PROFESSIONAL HELP. She died.
      NOTE: Scientology is not based on science and it’s practitioners are not professionally medically trained.

      I think most normal human people who would’ve seen Lisa – DAY ONE – in the state she was in would have brought her to the emergency room.

      That observation would not have been a professional observation, but a HUMAN and caring observation.

      Scientology is perverse on so many levels.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        If Lisa had survived, it would not have been because of hubbard’s brilliance, but because of sheer luck.

        Edit: spelling mistake

        • aegerprimo

          That is an interesting way to look it Johnny Tank.

          This introspection Rundown (crap) was her second time!

          Hubbard was not brilliant (except on a grifter sort of level)

          Lisa did not have “sheer luck.” Lisa was trusting and she died.

        • aegerprimo
    • Nat-leficent

      I doubt real, evidence based psychiatric treatments include starving a patient though, right?

      I’m sorry — I just cannot consider these blundering Scientologists as anything but ignorant fanatics.

      • Bleuler

        No, starvation is not a currently accepted method of treatment, neither is any of the other cruelties that Lisa was exposed to. Scientology does not do Science.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      That reminds me of this Black Rob post showing how a clam deals with a wog friend on “psych drugs”.
      (refresh)

      • salin

        Upvote for the insanity present in ‘Love, Mary”s post.

    • Beth

      I think the reduction in stimuli you refer to is meant to reduce stress and confusion and HELP a patient to stabilize and get calm. Hubbard’s intent was to deprive, punish and sublimate. He wasn’t trying to cure anyone, he was trying to beat them into submission.

    • Missionary Kid

      There’s a difference between reduction in stimuli and the silent treatment that was rendered to Lisa. When she was attempting to reach out verbally, she was given no response.

      They basically treated her as if she didn’t exist and had no input into her care, regardless of what she was doing. In addition, they were depriving her of not only kindness, but of the water she needed to sustain life. They were operating on the level of witch doctors who were ignoring evidence and applying a cure that was dictated by a fraud and applied by a sadist.

      • Bleuler

        Trust me, I was not in any way defending any of the “treatment” that Lisa received. Was merely stating that the stimuli reduction is not complete mumbo-jumbo, but of course like a lot of things that The Sebaceous Lord of Marcab and his followers did it was applied ass-backwards.

        • Missionary Kid

          I didn’t assume you were defending the “treatment”, I was trying to point out that the way she was treated was actually sensory deprivation, which definitely can be crazy making, and it all was at the behest of DM.

          There was no changing of the treatment because the distorted perceptions of the minders because of their beliefs and the fear of their superiors, and they didn’t

          $cientology exists in opposite land, a place where your money is drained in order to make you crazy or keep you slaving for them.

    • James Morris

      Notice this:
      Them eeble psychs are eclectic. They use multiple, evidence based treatments and ALWAYS watch and assess the patient, including TALKING to them. NOT use the only hammer they’ve got in their toolbox! All ‘nails’ are differing in their needs.

  • But fellow Scientologists came to the hospital and told the hospital staff that psychiatry was against McPherson’s religion. According to hospital records, a doctor released McPherson into the care of her fellow Scientologists after they promised to watch her around the clock.

    And they did watch her.

    • Rasha

      Yep. They saw.

      • Oh, and people were wondering about how the staff at the hospital who let Lisa go felt?

        The next one at Morton Plant Hospital, a bit over a year later, they and the police put a Baker Act on right away, oooh yes! (But still, WTF?)

        Scientologist hospitalized after jump into harbor March 2, 1997, Thomas C. Tobin, St. Petersburg Times

  • Observer

    With apologies to Mark, words of a lesser windbag … and how can you be something that isn’t even on the tone scale?

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/672789735522197504

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/672790958782590976

    • aegerprimo

      Kirstie A has gone TOTALLY over the edge insane.

      • Observer

        I think she’s going for the Earth Mother valence. Too bad Scientology has rendered her blind to her own hypocrisy.

        • Sherbet

          I think some little inner voice told her to be nice in the wake of the shootings and invoke the spirit of peace and positivity…but she’s full of you-know-what. She’ll come out swearing and verbally flippin’ the bird any time now.

          • Observer

            She’s doing it wrong.

            • Sherbet

              There’s a (ahem) disconnect between her brain and her mouth, and it’s caused by scientology complicated by her lack of class.

            • Missionary Kid

              Of course, she’s doing it wrong. She’s a follower of LRH and DM.

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            So this shooting was 70 miles from LA, which has the biggest concentration of scientoologists in the known universe, many of which are OT’s – and not ONE of them had any kind of premonition about this or could postulate it from happening?

            I will not be sending any of them R6 implant cards this year!

            • Sherbet

              Were you around Wednesday when the troll barged into the Bunker? That’s exactly one of the questions I asked her, why didn’t the scientologists get together and postulate that the shooting wouldn’t have happened. And since it had happened, they should get over to San Bernardino and heal the wounded and tell the dead to get back into their meat bodies. lrh said they would have the power to do so.

              Unfortunately, said troll didn’t respond. Strange.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I think was still at the breakfast buffet (there was more bacon left). It’s funny that she didn’t respond – I would’ve thought at least she would have said: “Xenu works in mysterious ways”. That’s their answer to everything.

            • Sherbet

              Her answer would have been, “Too many PTSes in the area, blocking intentions,” or some such drivel.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              What is LRH policy on that?

            • Sherbet

              LRH Policy: If it doesn’t work, blame someone else

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Sounds about right.

    • Liberated

      Puke.

    • Nat-leficent

      Where would Kirstie find all this harmony? She comes off as the screechiest person ever.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Love…I smell an MU here. Word clear that for me, Kirstie.

    • Beth

      harmony = lemurs + pie

      • Observer

        Snort!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      This is worse than jaden smith (or whatever that kid’s name is).

    • Bluenose Ghost

      Her tweets remind me of that recent study that found certain people (lower IQs) can’t tell the difference between pseudo “profound” quotations and bullsh*t phrases generated by a computer… http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/12/02/on-skepticism-pseudo-profundity-deepak-chopra-and-bullshit/

      • noseinabk

        So it’s a study about Jaden Smith?

        • Bluenose Ghost

          I think there truly is little difference between an internet Random Bullsh*t Generator and the stuff he writes… Can you imagine what the neurons firing inside that poor boy’s head must look like? Just a raging storm in the language centers of his brain, while whatever part is responsible for ego never shuts off.

      • noseinabk

        I am mid article and had to stop to save the link to the bullshit generator. πŸ˜€
        http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

        • Sherbet

          That’s not a BS generator — that’s Dan Sherman!

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            I see what you did there.

    • Amy Forsythe

      I hate you Kirstie.

      • madame duran

        I hate her hypocrisy.
        I’m going to start saving her hypocritical tweets and re-post them the next time she disconnects or is generally rude to someone.
        Her advice of “moving on” sounds like she’s telling everyone to have amnesia, don’t take time to grieve and act like the tragedy didn’t happen or affect you in any way. In other words, be an emotionless dolt.

        • Amy Forsythe

          She’s just a pawn in the game. One of Miscavige’s puppets. More pitiable than anything else really.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      The true definition of a “Gun Nut”…
      (refresh)

    • Mark

      • Observer

        Haha!

      • aegerprimo

        Mark! You look good in a Santa hat. β™₯

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        I really miss your ‘Words Of A Windbag’. They were my (almost) weekly highlights XD

    • Madison KinSmed

      Proof that “Pretty is as pretty does.”

  • outraged

    GREAT comments on Celebitchy about Scientology’s latest romance. The tides are changing and the king has been exposed as a fraud, a ponzi scheme disguised as a religion. f5

    http://www.celebitchy.com/459700/tom_cruise_scientology_leader_david_miscavige_do_everything_together/

    • aegerprimo

      I love the pic of the two of them. They are such a …sexy… couple. (F5)
      SNORT!
      Excuse me for hiccupping. LOL.

      • outraged

        perhaps they really ARE a couple.
        I would not be surprised.

        • aegerprimo

          I would not be surprised, but I would read the “story”. I’d read the “news”.

      • James Morris

        Bum buddies!
        Bum buddies!
        Shhhh!

      • Rasha

        …are these ‘Spitting Image’ puppets?

    • flyonthewall

      i think Cruise is past Michael Jackson weird at this point and that is really saying something

    • Amy Forsythe

      scientology is getting hit like Rousey did in the 1st round. Can’t wait for the knockout!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      That last comment is great.

      • outraged

        It’s so good I wondered if tmot was a Bunkerite.
        Then, I realized No! Joe and Jenny public now know a TON about the cult. Anyone interested can hop onto youtube and see the truth.

    • OTD:OutTheDoor

      Wow they actually looked up info on legitimate sources! Even the celeb-silly media are digging better to do their stories now, better in that they are finding blogs like this one. Thanks for posting the link.

    • Robert Eckert

      Upvote for the Tory plug.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      The Celebitchy crew is on it. I really like those folks. They have a good commenting community, and for a gossip site they’re pretty knowledgeable about scientology.

      • outraged

        One of the commenters – Lak – is an amazingly astute and knowledgable source on the whole EnglishRoyal scene with Kate, Wills, Tpips, and who follows who when and where on the hierarchy. Those posts can get very complicated and emotional. Fun to read. Like listening to 1010 Wins traffic report on the 1 while cooking dinner at home no car in sight.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Cool. I don’t follow the Royals, but I’ve definitely picked up lots of interesting tidbits on other topics–gossip and otherwise–by reading their comments section. I like ’em, they’re good peeps over there.

          • outraged

            Yeah, they even let me lecture about depression. :-}

    • Juicer77

      “…. and old white guy’s tax evasion Ponzi scheme.”
      NAILED IT.

  • Liberated

    What Lisa really needed was removal from cult compound, sleep, food, water and loving kindness. And I think she would have been fine.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      At this point ICU might have been best, IMO.

      • Liberated

        I mean in the very beginnng. She would have been fine, but after a day of that torture of course the Emergency.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          No, she should not have left the hospital – that was her downfall.

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Oh my God.

    PR Web says Narcnon has a new treatment program. I won’t add the link but you can Google
    “Narconon Arrowhead Announces New Cutting Edge Treatment Program 50 Years In The Making”

    “The new Narconon recovery approach is unlike any other addiction treatment method that exists today. It is a cutting edge combination of visual training aids and specifically codified actions in a precise easy-to-complete sequence of treatment steps that eliminates cravings, restores physical and mental health, repairs damaged relationships, rebuilds self-respect and puts the person back in control of their life.”

    Who do they think they are fooling?

    • Observer

      The whales?

      • Madison KinSmed

        Hah!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      If it’s a new approach, then hubbard did not write it – therefore it is squirrel.

      • Sherbet

        “cutting edge” Sheesh.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I was thinking that also.

    • aegerprimo

      CUTTING EDGE?

      • TonyOrtega

        More like cutting REG, amirite?

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I see what you did there, Boss.

        • aegerprimo

          Yes, UR ight.

        • aegerprimo

          err… delayed snort LOL!

    • MostEthicalPimp

      “repairs damaged relationships” until they tell you the truth about Scientology and Narconon!

    • OOkpik

      Visual aids=pictures of Hubs/DM and those nutty cartoon drawings in their study texts.
      Treatment steps? Restores physical health? Sounds kinda like practicing medicine, don’t it?

      • Bleuler

        It’s this picture, over and over again.

        • cedilla

          Bleuler,
          This never gets old.
          Edit: An Obs.

          • Bleuler

            I know, one of my all time favorites.

    • ze moo

      The purif + Lroon’s ‘cure’ + ideal videos, just like an ‘Ideal mOrg’, now with more videos. And it cost more too. NarCONon’s are moving into a half-way house type of licensing. I think they are trying to emulate the Salvation Army’s work.

      It’s a ‘religion’, except when it’s not.

    • OOkpik

      Cutting Corners.
      There, fixed it for them.

    • Frodis73

      Argh…this angers me. Unfortunately, too many will be fooled. One is too many.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Yes, one is too many And people who are looking for drug treatment are desperate for hope.

  • flyonthewall

    500 internets to whoever can recognize whose voice this is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQepegTJ0gA&t=1242&t=20m43s

    • aegerprimo

      Captain Bill?

      • flyonthewall

        no internets for you

        • aegerprimo

          okays.

          • flyonthewall

            psst, it’s Miscavige!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Is it David Miskiewicz?

            • flyonthewall

              Fievel Mousekiwitz (f5)

            • aegerprimo

              Who? LOL

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              The Rescuers – 1977 Disney movie.

            • flyonthewall

              nope, American Tail

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              D’oh – totally my mistake.

              Alzheimers.

            • aegerprimo

              Oh, I thought we were talking about the F….ing Cherh of $cientogy ….UGH AAAAK

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Although ‘The Rescuers’ had mice in it as well. But then again, so did almost every Mickey Mouse movie…

            • flyonthewall

              An American Tail. Classic kid’s movie

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Awww. That was one of my first cinema movies.

              Sorry, sudden glitch in the old matrix.

            • Sherbet

              I have a Christmas tree ornament of Fievel.

            • flyonthewall

              I showed this movie to the high school history class I did my student teaching for. It was the lesson on immigration. It’s actually really spot on. A lot of Fievel’s experiences are taken right out of American immigration history in early 20th century.

            • Sherbet

              I don’t remember much about it, except that it was very poignant.

            • flyonthewall

              somewhere out there, beneath the pale blue sky…someone’s thinking of you…lalalalalalala

            • Sherbet

              Linda Ronstadt and James Ingram (not engram).

            • flyonthewall

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_iRdgGZ6Xc

              There’s lots of catchy tunes in this movie. Guess what I’m gonna watch 2nt? Hardcore porn that’s what

            • Sherbet

              Mouse porn!

            • Frodis73

              I did not know you taught history for a minute. Cool. Do share more if you want. I flirted with that for a minute or so back in the day…I’d sell my soul to go back and finish college. To be honest, if I wasn’t so old I would consider it…kids these days need more history and civics in a *huge* way.

            • flyonthewall

              i only ever did student teaching, never got into the field as a profession. I realized 3/4 of the way through getting my certification that I wouldn’t last as a teacher. i love teaching and making lessons etc but that’s a very small part of the job in reality.

            • Frodis73

              That is still really cool. The babysitting aspect of teaching is definitely a turn off. Why were you teaching history specifically? Was that one of your majors/miinors?

            • flyonthewall

              bc I love history and have a BA in it. Didn’t take much to get certified to teach it. I thought I’d show kids how great it was and learn them a thing or two. Silly me πŸ™‚

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              When the Miskiewicz’s came to America they changed their name to Miscavige. It’s true.

            • aegerprimo

              No. I dissagree

            • flyonthewall

              it is 100% him, no doubt. You just can’t recognize it bc he’s not doing Shermanspeak. It’s from the infamous missionholders meeting. If you rewind a few minutes the guy who made the video even says it’s him. But you can tell by the voice too

            • aegerprimo

              Okay, go to this link
              Scientology’s speechwriter, the word of God, and a Hubbard bio that will never see the light of day
              http://tonyortega.org/2015/07/21/scientologys-speechwriter-the-word-of-god-and-a-hubbard-bio-that-will-never-see-the-light-of-day/

            • flyonthewall

              what?

            • aegerprimo

              WAT?

            • flyonthewall

              eh!?

            • aegerprimo

              BZZZZZ…..
              love you Fly
              β™₯β™₯β™₯

            • flyonthewall

              ditto

            • Sherbet

              No flies allowed in the OR.

            • aegerprimo

              Of course Sherb! A fly in the OR is contamination.
              Then….
              Fly at the Bunker = Interesting story or whatever may fly…..

            • Sherbet

              fly always has a special place on the Bunker wall.

            • Rasha

              …still owes me internetz…. just sayin’.

            • Sherbet

              Here’s where you went wrong: Arte Johnson knew he was a comedian. David Miscavige hasn’t figured out why people are laughing at him. There’s the difference.

            • Rasha

              (covers ears and stamps feet) INTERNETZ!!!! Fly has to give me…… oh… yeah, I guess….. yeah, that’s true. Haha! Good one, Sherb! ^_^ I suppo—–

              INTERNETZ!!!!! Waaaahhhhh

              …this is tiring. I guess I’ll do without. And Arte is much more inspirational and trustworthy than Blamin’ McMumblemouth anyway.

            • Sherbet

              Arte Johnson doing his Dirty Old Man voice made more sense than lrh and dm put together.

            • aegerprimo

              Ho ho ho … ?

            • aegerprimo

              Lox plox to vids?

            • flyonthewall

              did the vid start at the 20:43 mark for you? cuz if not then skip to that part and you’ll see. That’s where it should of started when I posted the link

            • Frodis73

              It did start 20 in for me and it’s def the hobbit fuck. Vomit.

            • flyonthewall

              thank you *high five* Here’s your internets

            • B4you

              he he. – Hobbit the fuck!

            • Draco

              Doesn’t sound like him without the manly base added to the sound. It’s all about da base!

        • aegerprimo

          I have internets. So…. what you mean?

    • Sherbet

      Don’t make me listen to this for an hour and a half.

      • flyonthewall

        no, just starting at the 20:43 mark

        • Sherbet

          I agree. Sounds like him squeezing stupidity out of his crooked duck mouth.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Philly Wheeze Snake?

      • Observer

        And with that, Eivol Ekdal catapulted into the Panopea Abruptasphere of puncraft …

        • flyonthewall

          ikr, he got the philly thing, the asthma, the reptilian thing. Home run all the way

          • Frodis73

            The reptilian thing…lol, awesome!

        • Eivol Ekdal

          It’s a once a year thing for me.

          • flyonthewall

            i already gave your internets to Frodis though, sorry. Here is a consolation prize.

            • Frodis73

              I will happily share my internets…I try not to be greedy.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              My fault for being late.

            • Sherbet

              Darn, Eivol already has one of those.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              I just got a 3D printer today. Designed, printed and fitted my first upgrade parts also.
              (pics)

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Hey, Legoman! That would be something for you – you could make your own Lego’s. Just think of the parts you could make!

            • Eivol Ekdal
            • Qbird

              aaa-vol, not eee-vol!?! I did not know that.

            • B4you

              Yah! he could make spareparts of Lego πŸ™‚

            • Qbird

              Holy Moly ~ that’s cool, EE.
              I would like to order 1 dozen of these please… but I need them in brown.

            • Susan B.

              Wow, cool! Hey China, did ya catch that?

              Are you an electrician or computer engineer, Eivol?

            • B4you

              Nice! Could you make me a designer-buttplug?

            • Eivol Ekdal

              Sure. Do you need a special size one?

            • B4you

              I want one that look like Lron A big one!

            • B4you

              What have you done to the poor Cat?

            • Frodis73

              It’s cracking me up!

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            And I was there to witness it.

        • flyonthewall

          where’s Jimmy? I miss his musk

          • Observer

            Somewhere in northeastern Ohio?

            • Sherbet

              Wakka wakka.

        • aegerprimo

          I love word skillz

    • Rasha

      Okay – I just got back! Let me see if I can….. if I…… umm…

      …dammit.

      • flyonthewall

        it’s Richard Dawson, geez Rasha smh

        • Rasha

          I..you…the-I was about…I HEY

        • Rasha

          Not even close! I know Arte Johnson when I hear him!

        • Rasha

          Internetz, plz.

    • 9001

      Late to the topic but my guess is Otto Roos.

  • Lisa’s coroner was intimidated into changing her account.

    Lisa’s case lawyer now owes scientology a million or so.

    Lisa’s Trust doesn’t exist anymore.

    But Lisa will never be forgotten.

    So Fuck You, Dave.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Even more people know about her now – 20 years after her death.

      • Sherbet

        Ready for tomorrow’s installment, everyone? We know it’s coming, and tomorrow it will be so final. Not looking forward to it, but we’ve walked this far through Lisa’s story, we have to stay to the end.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          It’s already Dec. 5 over here :’-(

          • Sherbet

            It isn’t December 5 until Tony says it’s December 5, 1995.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I’ll go stand in the corner.

              Can I take a kitteh with me?

            • Sherbet

              You’ll need it.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Oh geez, it’s a quarter to something over here. I better run off to bed so I can be up in time for Tony’s post.

              Later, dudes and dudettes!

            • Sherbet

              Goodnight.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Goodnight, Sherb!

            • Goodnight, brother.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Goodnight, Dodo! Sending good thoughts to you and your family πŸ™‚

            • Thank you.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              Goodnight Johnboy!

            • Rasha

              Night, Johnny!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Night, Rasha!

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Night Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn).

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Night, Free Minds, Free Hearts!

            • Qbird

              When ever I seen a beatiful fall photo, it reminds me of Johnny’s (Forever Autumn)…
              et la!

            • cedilla

              Gosh.
              You needn’t stand in any corner.
              T’is not a cult.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Can I still take a kitteh with me?

            • cedilla
            • beauty for ashes

              Oooh did someone say kitteh corner? F5

            • Juicer77

              Love this.

        • Ready, steady, go.

        • Rasha

          And the key is, her story doesn’t have an end. Tomorrow is an exclamation point to a rallying cry.

          What you did, Dave. What you did, Ron. What you did, you ‘minions following orders’.

          Now, good morning. It’s gonna be sunny, and the shadows small. Nowhere to scurry, no matter how small you are….

    • Bernie

      Yes!!

  • Jo

    My youngest sis has schizophrenia and was sectioned 3 years ago. She now got her own flat and pregnant, the worry and fear of the unknown is difficult, hard too explain. It broke my heart reading Lisa’s story, because she was ignored, no one to talk too. In my experience, which ain’t much, a little love goes along way.

    • Sherbet

      You have a good heart, Jo.

      • Jo

        Thanks Sherbet x

    • salin

      Deep respect to you, Jo. Your words indicate a commitment to embrace your sister in her journey. It can’t be easy. But, the gift you give to your sister – even in those moments when due to the schizophrenia that she may actively reject your help – is beautiful.

      • Jo

        Don’t get me wrong, she can be crabby. Thank you, worried but feeling optimistic

        • Frodis73

          It can be very hard. Your sister is very lucky to have you in her corner.

      • Jo

        Thanks Salin, baby due 18th dec. My sis has to go to a mother and baby unit for 3 months. I hope she does well, family got her back, we love her.

    • Xique

      A little love would have been nice. It’s sad to think of her loneliness throughout these 17 days. Lisa I’m so very sorry for what you had to endure. Why? So brutal.

    • daisy

      Jo that can be a though row to hoe ,but the benefits are so worth it. Try as much as you can to keep her on treatment. Use community resources to help her. What a family, she is lucky.

    • Juicer77

      My best wishes to her, Jo. Will say some prayers, too. Pregnancy and schizophrenia is tough because of the medication issues. I hope she is getting good care for herself and the baby.

  • beauty for ashes

    I lighter news, on the Soup, Joel McHale and guest Patrick Warburton talk about the enquirer alleging that Tom Cruise has not seen Suri in two years. Joel postulates that it is because of his involvement with the church of Scientology. While Patrick argues that NO~ Suri is just an asshole. Which gets a big round of applause. πŸ™‚

    • Missionary Kid

      Took me a while to realize that Suri, Katie’s kid is different than Apple’s Suri.

      • beauty for ashes

        Or is it Siri, Mish. I get those two confused.

        • Missionary Kid

          The names sound similar. πŸ˜›

        • Draco

          It is Siri.

  • daytoncapri

    OT, but some might want to know. On Thanksgiving Day, LA Times Kim Christensen’s brother Richard was killed in a hit and run in Zambia while homebuilding for Habitat for Humanity. As Tony has posted here, Kim broke the story that David Miscavige had hired private investigators to tail his father. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dayton/obituary.aspx?n=richard-c-christensen&pid=176768364&fhid=5612

    • Tony Ortega

      Kim has done other great work on Scientology stories in the past, including the LA Times 2005 piece about Int Base, Dave, and Tom.

      Sorry to hear that he’s going through that.

    • OOkpik

      πŸ™

  • Observer

    Just went to check on Mr Observer to find him staring incredulously at the TV, on which NASCAR driver Jeff Gordon was on a stage with fat-faced Tom Cruise. Apparently Gordon is retiring, and for some reason Cruise is involved in the ceremony.

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)

      Screenshot for us to laugh at, please.

      • Observer

        The moment is past, and I didn’t have anything to take a pic of the TV with.

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          DVR? TiVo?

          • Observer

            Mr O changed the channel after he’d had his fill of FF Cruise, so it’s gone. He was flipping through the channels when he saw it.

            • Zeruel (Sebastian)

              Tell Mr. O he does not respect other people’s need to laugh at the expense of an obnoxious celebrity.

            • Observer

              He’s on Vicodin so he will not care. lol

            • noseinabk

              A few years ago my husband was on percocet after a kidney stone procedure. For some reason he insisted on taking the trash out. At least once a year one of the kids reenact him doing it in super slow motion. Wish I had taken pics or video.

            • Frodis73

              That is very funny…a bit cruel, but I know it’s all in love. I’d love to see that and I too wish you had video of the original and the re-enactments.

          • Observer

            noseinabk posted a Twitter link to the video of it above (if you’re sorting by newest)

    • noseinabk

      Are you on twitter? It is in the Nascar news feed.
      I tried to post the twitter comments and couldn’t get it.

      Lucille is going to be heartbroken.

      • noseinabk

        https://mobile.twitter.com/NASCAR/status/672993747467149313/video/1
        Not sure if this will work.
        Edit: sorry. Will leave it to the twitter users to find the comments.

        • Observer

          That worked!

        • Observer

          btw, “Real meets real”?! There’s not much “real” about Tom. Plastic surgery/fillers and profession of pretending to be other people aside, he’s some kind of unholy hybrid of Hubs and Miscavige, heavy on the Miscavige.

      • Observer

        Nope, not on Twitter. I thought of Lucille too. πŸ™

        • Robert Eckert

          It’s the latest OSA tactic. Upset Fly by associating with Legos, Lucille by associating with NASCAR. What was the name of that new game you just got?

  • noseinabk

    Sorry Tony, I know you may not like when we point out the troll activities on other sites.
    In the last month I’ve watched elle and socks go full blast against critics. The account has had conversations with J. Swift, Ross, and now Paulette who took the time to respond to the nuts.

    I want to thank elle for continuing to educate the Internet on just how vile cult members can be to not just the critics but to anyone who does not adore Tom Cruise or any other cult puppet.

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/ggxpress/scientology_tarnishes_cruise8217s_star_power/

    • Doc M

      Trying to communicate with Elle is pointless. I’m sure she is intelligent, she is just so brainwashed that getting through is next to impossible. It would really take something dramatic to reach her.

      I always say that one of the hardest things in the world to do is to try to change somebodies paradigm.

      Lastly, it doesn’t matter what she might say, we all know that at this point in time, the Church of Scientology is imploding…it’s a continuing process but it is IMPLODING.

      As an afterthought, the song “Where have all the flowers gone” has been running through my head this evening. The tag line is: “When will they ever learn, when will they e v e r learn”

      • noseinabk

        The account reminds me of the Westboro baptist. They care not how they look to others as long as they can get any reaction at all.

        • Doc M

          very true.

          • Glen

            Hey Doc. I sent an email to Angela Jobson at Merlin Entertainment a few days ago re; Legoland. I thought I had the right address but it has bounced back to me as a delivery failure a couple times now. Any idea what is going on with that? Did your letter get through?

            • Doc M

              I think so, it never bounced back. I took the address directly off their site.

        • Robert Eckert

          But the girl who once ran their social media accounts (a granddaughter of Fred, daughter of Shirley) is out of the cult now because the outside contacts taught her reality and compassion.

          • Doc M

            But a person needs to be ready to make that change and at times, lots of talking might do it, but it takes a huge amount of energy,

            An analogy is the smoker, of course they want to stop, but in reality, they have to really want to stop, than they can start the process. I guess real desire has to be stronger than fear and/or addiction.

            • Robert Eckert

              How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?

              No number will be enough unless the light bulb really wants to change!

          • Doc M

            BTW, Robert, I’m glad you’re posting again, I always really liked your posts a lot!

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Yes, her story is really amazing.

          • Glen

            I read that story as well. Another granddaughter (I believe), Lauren Drain, left the Westboro cult a few years earlier. She was in the second Louis Theroux followup about Westboro. She lives a real life, wrote a book, misses her sisters and family but was horrified when she saw the light. I think she became a nurse and is now a world class trainer and body builder in Boston, I think.

      • noseinabk

        I think that like the nuts who confronted Rathbun at LAX the elle posters will go down with the ship.
        I cant help but think that when the public scientologist that come across the elle posts they cringe away at the absurd attempts to discredit anyone who has a differing view. This was evident in the comments to the Danny Masterson article :
        http://www.papermag.com/danny-masterson-tells-us-about-his-life-in-the-church-of-scientology-1427506335.html

        • Doc M

          Some day in the future when Masterson looks back at the interview, he’ll cringe, just as we do when we see our HS yearbook pictures.

        • Juicer77

          Remember a skinny, pale Mike Rinder just before he blew? You never know what the “aha” moment will be for each individual. But you’re right, undoubtedly there will be those who cling to DM’s falling star to the last.

      • madame duran

        I sometimes interact with elle and I don’t find it’s pointless. Why? Because she (?) isn’t the only one with whom I’m communicating. Disqus offers a public forum for comments that ANYONE can read. I may choose to respond to elle on a certain point but I’m always aware that others are reading the conversation too. It’s those people whom I’m hoping to reach; those who may likely not be as immersed in the cult Kool-Aid and are open to discussion and/or education.
        Who can truly say whether elle is or isn’t being affected by the daily barrage of comments against Scientology? Elle may not respond in the way we like; indeed, she’s conditioned to respond only in the “proper” Scientology way. That response, however, doesn’t necessarily reflect what may be going on inside her head (keep in mind that “elle” may actually be a collection of different individuals logging in under the same user name). She’s exposing herself to “wogs” and “entheta” constantly. She may later cognize that “clearing the planet” would be impossible with so much evidence of resistance among the masses (not just from the Bunker either). I know it’s affecting her on some level in that she has to spend LOTS of time and effort to furiously counteract basic facts with herculean mental gymnastics. I hold out hope that she may change but I’m not holding my breath for that moment. Those who are ready and open will earnestly take things into consideration.
        As you’ve already pointed out, elle unwittingly offers the non-Scientologist public an insight into the cult mind. Elle isn’t in control of all MEST; she merely REACTS to it (usually with personal insults, non sequiturs, LRH quotes and/or angry rants). Does she have time to pause and reflect before posting her replies? Probably not, especially in the few hours before Thursday 2 pm. Scientology minions are always operating on a 10-alarm, “urgent” schedule with much rushing and pressure for production results. There is no time for thinking, taking breaks or luxuriating in silence. Elle is compelled by her cult to disseminate virtually 24/7. Anything less than that can be construed as “failure” or she not being “committed” enough to the cause. Hubbard set up the hamster wheel, Miscavige upped the speed 100x and, by golly, Elle seems determined to stay on and run it! I hope the stress will literally make her collapse (a blessing in disguise…or possibly a horrible fate, given what we know how Scientology treats the “unable” like Lisa McPherson).

        • Doc M

          I understand what you’re saying and agree. Let me clarify my point.
          Elle is not in a state where she can hear what others say, she is so thoroughly conditioned at this point. Thus the comments directed at her (not by you, but by some) are antagonistic, joking and sometimes rude.

          This just causes her to retreat further into the world she knows at this point.

          Other’ on that particular list already know about Scientology (judging by the posts to Elle).

          Who knows if there is one or two on the fence who would be swayed by what we say, but I don’t think they are there, again judging by the responses.

          Thus, it appears to be a circus that just goes back and forth.

          I have to cut this short as I have an early shift, but there is more I’d like to say, (concentrating our efforts on the big picture, communicating with a Scientologist who is questioning it all etc).

          Perhaps later I can be more specific and present my opinions in a better way. In the mean time, Elle just seems like that lone person who just wants to debate.

        • Doc M

          I wanted to get back to you from this mornings post and I apologies for cutting it short but I had a very early shift.

          I understand what you said about trying to reach that one person and the audience reading the posts.

          I’ve been posting on and off for 6 months and lurking much longer. Of course reaching through to one person is a great thing as one life has literally been saved, however, there must be a way to become more proactive way to expend our energy to makes things move along much faster and to reach more people using that same amount of energy. (I don’t have any idea how except for writing letters which I’ve done to the IRS, to Legoland and to Local politicians etc (this apparently does little except for generic responses))

          Maybe there isn’t another way and we just have to wait for the church to finally implode, which saddens me.

          Do you have any ideas?

          • madame duran

            Conversing with the likes of Elle doesn’t constitute the bulk of my energy in countering Scientology. It is only a part. I don’t respond to everything that she posts as that IS a waste of MY time. I respond to her occasionally where I have the time and see it fit to do so.

            The main point I was making (and I believe you understood it) is that when I speak to elle, I have a broader audience in mind. I don’t dismiss elle entirely. I respond to her sometimes because it MAY plant a seed of doubt, impart some information or a pass on a critical thought to mull over…if not in elle’s head, then possibly in someone else’s. There are far too many examples in real life where the “right word, right time” or the “right person, right place” made all the difference in someone’s life. One small step sets off a chain reaction of events, unknown to most until the very end. Think of Tory Christman and Andreas Heldal-Lund. Think of Paulette Cooper meeting up with Peter de Hoo (son of the Dutch man who saved Paulette’s life).

            Of course reaching through to one person is a great thing as one life has literally been saved, however, there must be a way to become more proactive way to expend our energy to makes things move along much faster and to reach more people using that same amount of energy.

            As much as I’d LOVE for Scientology’s demise to happen at a rapid pace and for education on cults to reach a larger audience, I don’t believe there’s one sure-fire way to achieve this. We are fortunate enough to be living in the Internet age where a wealth of information is at everyone’s fingertips and communication can be delivered in a matter of nanoseconds. Yet, despite all this technology, we are still caught up in court delays, lengthy legislation processes and personal recovery schedules. I have learned from the Old Guard critics of the value of PATIENCE and PERSISTENCE. Think of how long they had to wait before Anonymous came on the scene. Excruciating. But their protests paid off eventually. If one’s expectations on Scientology’s downfall were only measured in terms of time (how soon?) and numbers (how many?), prepare to become VERY DISAPPOINTED. I choose to focus more on delivering content and performing consistent action through multiple platforms. I may only reach one…I may reach a thousand. Who knows? Either way, it is NOT a “waste of time” and I NEVER consider it “ineffective”.

            This is why I sometimes talk to elle (her reactions notwithstanding).

            • Doc M

              I’ve never been known for patience and when I read of the continuing horrible abuses or straight out lies, I feel angry and want to do something immediately. I get very antsy trying to reason with an “Elle”.

              Interestingly, I have a huge amount of patience and compassion for my patients, ( I could never be a good physician otherwise and it comes naturally) but with horrible injustices, my personality is different.

              I’m glad you can do it, I don’t think I can.

            • madame duran

              Don’t try to reason with “Elle”. That is, speak intelligently but don’t hold the expectation that she will reply back with reason. She’s currently operating in Hubbard’s valence; she’s a Ronbot. Other readers who are open to reasonable dialogue will respond in kind or give serious consideration to what you’re saying.
              I’m not exactly the epitome of patience either. It’s something I had to learn (and continue to practice). Patience, however, does not equal tolerance for injustice. Scientology’s record of fraud still infuriates me (after reading what happened to Lisa McPherson, how could it not be upsetting?). I guess my perception of timing and action is a little different. Just because something isn’t seen be happening right away doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not happening at all. Major social movements generally don’t happen overnight. My concern is that things move in the RIGHT direction.
              Thank you for being honest about your feelings.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Ignore Elle if you can not respond to her in a calm manner.

      She will go to great lengths to get you to in an emotional response.
      Don’t fall for that.

      I still think that Elle is a sock used by many people.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        “Elle” was completely dissociated the last time I engaged for any length of time. It was obvious there was more than one personality involved.

        • George Layton

          ELLE, that sounds like the name of someone who doesn’t know if they are coming or going.

    • pluvo

      ‘elle’ is OSA. He/she/they are trained to handle ‘entheta’ and normally have to be at least OT3 because of the OT3 and Xenu stuff that is on the Internet. They are especially denigrating and attacking whistle-blowers like Paulette Cooper.

      From Robert Vaughn Young, a former insider. http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/press/rvy-inside.txt

      For my training, I studied and had secret directives from Hubbard and others on how to handle reporters, how to deal with police and government agencies, how to create front groups, and how to discredit or destroy a person or a group with Hubbard’s “fair game” doctrine.

      I also trained other Scientology PRs on how to handle the media, using material from Hubbard. This included how to respond to a question without answering, how to divert the issue, how to tell “an
      acceptable truth,” how to stall for time, how to assume various emotional states to control another, how to “attack the attacker,” how to take control of a conversation, how to introvert a person and how to “get the message across” (especially in an age of sound bites), how to help Scientology attorneys write inflammatory legal papers so the PR could then safely use the abusive phrases, and how to appear to be a religion.

      The media are handled by the Office of Special Affairs, or OSA,in the Church of Scientology.

      PR Attack

      “I also trained other Scientology PRs how to handle the media,
      using material from Hubbard. This included
      –How to respond to a question without answering.
      –How to divert the issue, how to tell “an acceptable truth.”
      –How to stall for time.
      –How to easily assume various emotional states to control
      another.
      –How to “attack the attacker.”
      –How to take control of a conversation, how to introvert a
      person and how to “get the message across.”
      –How to help Scientology attorneys write inflammatory legal
      papers so the PR could then safely use the abusive phrases.
      –How to appear to be a religion.”

      –Robert Vaughn Young,

      CONFIDENTIAL
      REPORTER TRS

      http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/reporter.htm

    • anoni81b4u

      Elle can be fun to play with. Do not let her get under your skin.
      Ask her about talking to ashtrays if you have trouble with her!
      She loves this picture by the way πŸ™‚

  • B4you

    dunno what happened here: F5

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I wrote and got the same canned reply as Tony did, a charity of their choice without prejudice, to which I replied that her answer did not fly. Would she support WBC or Nazi nonprofit?

      • Frodis73

        I’m going to send a couple emails out after the weekend (just when they think it’s dying down) and confront them about the answers they gave vs the donation. Well, no I will address the donation too, but mostly the shitty replies.

    • OOkpik

      If first you don’t succeed…?

    • I got one of these once…a simple refresh page and things were back to normal and the message was still there.

      Edit: that said I do remember this post and it does seem to have been removed.

      Strange.

  • noseinabk
    • OOkpik

      A beautiful tribute, noseinabk. Thanks.

  • Lady Squash

    Lisa’s story is hard to read…

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    This display is going to give me a Christmas engram. Creepy LRH makes the Grinch look absolutely cute and cuddly by comparison.

    PHOTO CAPTION – “Where Evil lives.” #Scientology

    https://www.instagram.com/p/-5Mw0YKCxf/?tagged=scientology

    • Newiga

      I first read “Where Elvis lives.”. :’D I’d be tempted to put a santa’s hat or some reindeer antlers on LRH’s bust.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Or at least stick some Christmas themed pasties on those man boobs πŸ˜‰

        • Rasha

          …you know that feeling, when a bubbly drink goes through your nasal passage…?????

          • Newiga

            or the feeling when you almost choke on a piece of tangerine.. xD

            • Rasha

              …stay safe out there! ^_^

            • Newiga

              No eating and drinking when reading the Bunker. πŸ˜›

            • Rasha

              I already turned in my waiver, so I’m all set! ^_^

    • OOkpik

      BRRAAAAK!

    • Draco

      Why is the whole thing in a bath tub?

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    2 Instagram posts from Jim Mathers (at the Fort Harrison Hotel):

    PHOTO CAPTION – “Getting ready for Christmas!!!!!”
    https://www.instagram.com/p/-5mF2yrstQ/?taken-by=thejimmathers

    PHOTO CAPTION – “Super Student from St Petersburg”
    https://www.instagram.com/p/-5l-fNrstD/?taken-at=214814431

    • Rasha

      Creepy creep is creepy. Make it stop.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        He creeps me out big time too. I swear, he looks soft boiled.

        • Rasha

          Apart from the “just stay away from me” instinct I get….. is that a gingerbread Fort Harrison??? Not familiar with all their properties, which I guess are chosen for their “establishment vibe” look, but it’s obviously supposed to be a $ci building, and will probably be found in a dumpster nearby sometime soon….

          …Scientology – please take your creepy hands off my holidays.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            This huckster only posts his photo if he’s hawking something – he’s promoting the annual Fort Harrison Gingerbread House. Ahem. Yeah, I’ll stop by and check it out. Sure…
            Hansel & Gretel, anyone?
            (refresh)

            • Robert Eckert

              Is it baked with real children?

            • Draco

              That’s just a weird thing to associate the holidays with. A house designed to trap and kill unsuspecting children?
              And it reads like a Miscavige briefing with all the stats.

    • OOkpik

      Ugh!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        That’s perfect – wonky eye and all!

      • Draco

        Exact same facial expression – how weird is that?!

    • Draco

      Again with the young women! This guy is sooo creepy!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Yes, please tell me more about “Mankind’s Greatest Friend”, Mr Hubbard! *GAG*
    (refresh)
    https://www.instagram.com/p/-2VTSTjwq8/?taken-by=johnlmckay

    • Rasha

      LOL @ “Answers to the Human Mind”. John, I really, really hope you made all this personal info up and got out of there. Nice view of the Space Needle from that address….. irony?

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Lots of luck with that happening, pal…

    PHOTO CAPTION – “If I had one dollar for every year iv committed to Scientology id have 1 Billion dollars”
    https://www.instagram.com/p/9FW1TVhM8G/?taken-by=arimannis

    • Rasha

      1. You still have time to NOT fill in that form….
      2. Malaria does not suck nearly as bad as Scientology, as it can be contained and treated by medicine and proper sanitation and pest control.
      3. I hope you are mocking Scientology with that look. Really. Is this John McHugh from the other pics?

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        This (above) is Ari Mannis https://www.instagram.com/arimannis/
        Below was posted by John McKay https://www.instagram.com/johnlmckay/

        • Rasha

          Gotcha, thanks, IW. By the way, isn’t it… well…. ominous and creepy to see that “We Come Back” at the bottom of the form? Personally, I see that as a warning sign….

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            Posted by Anthony Troli (also Funny or Die). John McKay is the guy on the right.

            PHOTO CAPTION – “When TOP GUN is playing at the Scientology Church, you know we’re gonna dress like Maverick and Goose. Also Fuck Scientology”

            https://www.instagram.com/p/5iuSxAnskK/?taken-by=anthonytroli

      • Draco

        I think he is taking the piss.

    • Rasha

      Even with compound interest, $1 per year, minus fees, will net him minus a few trillion. That’s not taking into account that the chult will be regging the living shit out him each day for a billion years.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ +–+ RED X *** Saturday, 05 December 2015.

    What could the story be? http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/com/5345678076.html

    For those who find it therapeutic to do some co$ wacking, RedX Google doc is kept alive: Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5…for Praying squirrel by StillGrace, recovered by Cars & flickred by AegerPrimo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/14217098694/in/set-72157642802079293

    • OOkpik

      It’s good to see you again, Pierrot.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Wait a minute. Why are they opening an Ideal Narconon in Columbia? According to the CO$ they have solved all of Columbia’s problems! http://www.mikerindersblog.org/what-a-load-of-rubbish/
    (refresh)
    https://www.instagram.com/p/-33CgIRJNC/?tagged=narconon

    • madame duran

      It’s for all those wealthy Venezuelans who are addicted to spending money on things that aren’t needed…and a place to lure and entrap poor Colombians looking for work.

    • Bunker Buggy Betsy

      Isn’t Freedom Medal of BS recipient filming a movie there? Erect a “church” for a soon to fade “movie star”, so he’ll have a place to rest his weary head from reaching all these millions of people with LRH drivel.

      Not that he receives special treatment on the backs of all the lowly abused staffers.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Junkie thetans.

      No, I have not had my coffee yet. πŸ™‚

  • Tony Ortega

    Story’s going to be a little late this morning. Please be patient.

    • pluvo

      Thank you for the info, Tony.

      (OT) Meanwhile I’m going on a tour with my 90 year old mom, who I’m taking care of at the moment; later grilling with my brother and his wife – who has birthday today – and their friends. This would not be possible if I still were in the SO.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Happy birthday to your sister-in-law pluvo. πŸ™‚ Today is also my father-in-laws birthday, we’ll be getting together with him and the rest of the family later this afternoon. Hope y’all have a lovely day. πŸ™‚

        • pluvo

          Thank you, Stephanie. I wish you a wonderful day with your family,too.

    • Yeppir

      Slacker.
      Heh. Just kidding.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Of course, it’s not a problem.

    • Richard

      That’s what they say, every day, about Italian trains. “They’re going to be a little late this morning (afternoon, evening). Please be patient.”

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I am supposed to be on a plane to Dublin with 20 friends to celebrate a friend’s surprise birthday for the weekend. Thanks to Hurricane Desmond all flights to Dublin are cancelled. So we had a lovely breakfast in the departure lounge then filed back through passport control along with hundreds of other Eire-bound passengers, all with Sad Face. 3 of us jumped on a coach to London. Might as well still enjoy our weekend.

    • Draco

      There’s a hurricane out your way?

      • Graham

        They are storms. For some reason the UK weather forecasters have just started ‘naming’ our storms. ‘Storm Desmond’ sounds a bit pathetic. We’re used to ‘named’ weather events being hurricanes (in other countries. Rarely/never here) so it’s easy to slip into calling it ‘Hurricane Desmond’ when officially it’s just a storm. Very high winds, risk of trees uprooted and high-sided vehicles knocked over, slates off roofs etc but that’s about it.

        • Draco

          Haha. Thanks for that Graham. It’s weird – I don’t think of the British as people who exaggerate things. Maybe an American took over the weather room?

        • Robert Eckert

          US started doing that with winter storms a couple years ago. At first I thought it was cutesiness by the local weathermen. When I found out it was official, I was appalled.

          • B4you

            yah! something going on with that! same thing going on in the rest of europe

  • Tony Ortega

    New post is up.