SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Tom DeVocht: Watching David Miscavige watch Lisa McPherson and her faulty ‘needle’

Tom_Devocht_GC3

 
Twenty years ago today, on Wednesday, November 15, 1995, Lisa McPherson and her friend Brenda Hubert drove from Clearwater, Florida to Orlando and checked into a hotel. Lisa had not slept much the night before, so she went up to her room for a nap while other employees of AMC Publishing were still arriving.

Lisa and her co-workers were in Orlando for the annual meeting of the National Association of Independent Life Brokerage Agencies. The NAILBA conference was an important one for AMC, which catered to brokers, and while Lisa napped the others helped out at the registration desk, meeting attendees.

Later that afternoon, Lisa came down to join the scene at registration. And that’s when AMC employee Craig Burton noticed that something about her was off. Lisa was known for being outgoing and extroverted, but also polite. So Burton was surprised to see her go up to a man at the conference and get in his face. He couldn’t hear what she was saying, but whatever it was she was just inches from the guy’s face, berating him about something until Brenda came over and pulled her away.

Burton remembered later that it was the first thing he noticed during that trip that suggested Lisa was acting strange.

 

————–

 
On Friday, we backed up a little in our countdown to the 20th anniversary of Lisa McPherson’s death to look at the reasons why Scientology leader David Miscavige had been personally involved in her counseling. In the language of Scientology, Miscavige had “case supervised” or “C/Sed” her “auditing” as she went “Clear,” which was declared on September 7, 1995.

Marc Headley, who was in Clearwater at the time and heard Miscavige talk about McPherson, explained to us that Miscavige had been at the “Flag Land Base” for several months, involving himself in individual cases as he looked for ways that the complex, the most profitable in all of Scientology, could speed people through and take in even more money.

Yesterday, we talked to someone else who personally witnessed Miscavige “C/Sing” Lisa’s auditing. Tom DeVocht was a key figure for Scientology in Clearwater before he left the organization in 2005. He was then part of the epic Tampa Bay Times 2009 series, “The Truth Rundown,” that featured numerous former high-ranking Scientology executives revealing what it was like to work with Miscavige. And more recently, he was one of the most effective participants in Alex Gibney’s Emmy-winning documentary, Going Clear. DeVocht’s accounts are so interesting because of how close he worked with Miscavige, who favored DeVocht and socialized with him and their wives, Shelly Miscavige and Tom’s wife of the time, Jenny Linson.

DeVocht was constantly around Miscavige, and that’s why he can describe in detail what it was like when Miscavige was C/Sing Lisa McPherson.

“I stood there with him I can’t tell you how many times watching him watching sessions,” Tom tells us. On the fourth floor of the Fort Harrison Hotel, the central facility at the base, a large, 20 foot by 20 foot room had been cleared out and installed with video equipment. There were multiple monitors showing what was going on in rooms on the third and fifth floors, where hotel rooms had been converted for auditing and were wired for sound and video.

“Each room had two cameras, one on the PC [the “pre-clear,” or subject of the auditing] and one on the meter. And there was a mic on the desk for sound. It was for ‘training purposes of the auditor’,” Tom explains with some sarcasm. The eavesdropping equipment also allowed Miscavige to listen in as wealthy Scientologists revealed deeply personal information during the counseling sessions.

From the monitor that Miscavige was watching, he could flip back and forth to any of the rooms where auditing was going on. He could then see and hear the PC answering questions, and also see how the needle on the e-meter the PC was hooked up to was reacting. McPherson was just one of the many people Miscavige was watching at the time.

“He C/Sed her case all the way through,” Tom says. After a day’s session was over, McPherson’s folder would be brought to Miscavige, who would make notes, in his own handwriting, about what he’d seen and what he wanted done. “He was personally all over it, like it was his personal project. He was completely into it.”

An electrical engineer will tell you that a Scientology E-meter is a very crude device that reveals tiny fluctuations of current in skin galvanism, measured through sensors resembling soup cans that are held by the subject. Because the sensors are held, those fluctuations are affected by grip and palm sweat, essentially making the needle readings scientifically meaningless. But Scientologists insist that an E-meter measures the “mass” of human thought, and that it is actually indicating amazingly detailed and accurate information about what a person is thinking and remembering. In Hubbard’s counseling, subjects are asked about past traumas, some that go back millions or billions of years into past lives, and they seek to lessen the effect of those past traumas through repetitively talking about them. The goal is reached, auditors believe, when the needle makes a particular back and forth motion called a “floating needle” or “FN.” A session can only be declared finished when the auditor sees a floating needle, and it is then confirmed by a separate person, an examiner, and then the session is reviewed by a case supervisor, who is supposed to be trained to be an expert in the meter and its “reads.”

DeVocht and everyone else knew, however, that Miscavige’s training history was suspect. Miscavige had been considered a prodigy in his teens when he went with his New Jersey family to Saint Hill Manor in England to train as one of the youngest auditors in the organization. But he’d run into trouble there — several people claim that Miscavige struck his subject during a session — and he was not known to have continued his training into its advanced states.

But here, he was watching Lisa McPherson being audited, and as the auditor could be heard to say that he was seeing a floating needle, Miscavige was back in the “look-in room,” screaming that the auditor was incorrect, Tom says.

“He was screaming and yelling about how it wasn’t true and how the session wasn’t handled properly,” Tom says. And at one point, Miscavige was so livid, he called for the captain of the entire base to be summoned.

It was Debbie Cook, who had been captain of the Flag Land Base for years, and was known as one of the most hard-charging administrators in all of Scientology — but not, Tom points out, a technical expert.

“She hadn’t been an auditor for a long time. But Miscavige said to her, ‘Bitch, you’re taking her in session, get ready.’ And he stuck her in session with Lisa to audit her. ‘Don’t you come out without an FN,’ he said to Debbie. You could tell the whole thing was a mess.”

It was just one incident in Miscavige’s consuming interest in McPherson’s case, Tom says, as the Scientology leader pushed to get McPherson to “Clear.”

As we discussed on Friday, however, there were plenty of warning signs that Lisa McPherson was not a good subject for the grueling sessions. In June, she’d had a nervous breakdown and had talked about suicide. And not long after Miscavige declared her Clear in September, Lisa was again acting strangely and sounding distraught.

And in Orlando, as the NAILBA conference got under way, Lisa was rapidly approaching another breaking point.

 
——————–

Bonus photos from our tipsters

According to a Facebook posting, on Friday night at the Advanced Org of Los Angeles (AOLA), an announcement was made that OT 9 and 10 will be released by the end of the year (which is just six weeks away) at the Freewinds, and that the first 500 people have already signed up. Oh my.

 
AOLOAnnouncement

 
Hey, girl. Want to see my mission? Actual caption: “Our New Mission Holder has arrived!!! Sean Dernehl, Mission Holder of the successful and busy Church of Scientology South Coast Mission in California, has come to Ocala to be our Mission Holder here! He’s already started hiring more Staff, and we’re looking forward to a huge new game here in Ocala!! If you ever thought about working with us, now is the perfect time to join the fun! Sean is famous for getting his Staff all fully trained to be able to help others in every possible way, and for delivering fast, great service to people who come to the Mission for Courses, Auditing and other services we offer! I’ve only talked with him a few times, but each time I’ve been quite impressed. The guy really knows his stuff, and he is very much into helping others to achieve what he and others in Scientology and Dianetics have achieved—which is a spiritual freedom which exceeds anything that Man has ever known.”

 
SciOcala

 
Let’s see. We’ve done superheroes. And gangsters. And pirates. What can we do for our next fundraising party theme? Hey, what about a weird Sinbad/Teletubbies/ISIS mashup! Way to go, Costa Rica!

 
SciCostaRica6SciCostaRica7SciCostaRica8SciCostaRica9

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Our book tour is concluded for now. (But you can re-experience it through this nifty interactive map!) We’ll let you know about future appearances. Previous events: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29), Sydney (10/23), Melbourne (10/25), Adelaide (10/28), Perth (10/30)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on November 15, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
  • Couple things. 1) Merrill Mayo, once David Mayo’s wife, was a Class XII but not C/S trained. One time a pc she was auditing needed a new C/S because he/she showed up for session with a cold or something. There was no C/S around to provide new instructions so Merrill C/Sed the folder herself and took the pc in session and things turned out fine. A short time later LRH found out what had happened and wrote directly to Mayo saying that if anyone no matter how highly classed as an auditor C/Sed a folder without being C/S trained, that auditor was to have all his or her auditing certificates pulled immediately. He let Merrill get away with it that once but you can bet she never pulled that stunt again. Meanwhile, here is good old Dave, a Class IV, blithely C/Sing Lisa McPherson to death, literally.
    2) The E-meter. Electrical engineers who are not also auditors do not have a freaking clue about how the meter works beyond the electrical circuitry of the device. None. The shots of the meter we all see in Going Clear and elsewhere don’t show fuck all about what happens on the meter needle when a person is seriously engrossed in what is happening in the mind. There are all manner of reactions on the meter needle and Tone Arm that cannot be explained away so easily as Tony asserts above. If one has ever seen what Hubbard called a Theta Bop where the needle falls about an inch and then jerks a tiny jerk and then goes the exact same distance the other way and jerks and goes back and forth a bunch of times, how they hell can that be explained by a person’s hands sweating? Or a Rock Slam where the needle goes absolutely bonkers? Or any number of other oddball reactions? It takes some messing around with another’s or one’s own mind to really get a subjective understanding about the connection to the meter and the mind. True, there are physically-activated reactions that occur but these are not the extent of them, not by a long shot.

    • Draco

      I’m going to leave this one alone and go to bed…

      • Chee Chalker

        I responded and now realize I would have been better off hitting my head against a wall…..

        • Draco

          Exactly! 😉

    • Chee Chalker

      So, because these instances ‘cannot be explained’ (I’m guessing they can) that means Hubbard was right? And that a ‘theta bop’ and a ‘rock slam’ meant whatever drivel Hubbard assigned to them?
      Hubbard was a drug addict and a mentally ill individual.
      Lisa McPherson did not die because she was not properly C/S’ed. She died because she needed medical attention and it was withheld. L. Ron’s mumbo jumbo would not have helped her.
      Real doctors and psychiatrists would have saved her. Not an E-meter for crying out loud. Open your eyes.

      • You couldn’t have understood my comments any less if you tried.

        • Chee Chalker

          You’re right…..I don’t understand how someone buys into this nonsense. I get it if one is raised in the cult, but to believe that a crude machine helps you to blow imaginary aliens off of your body all whilst paying exorbitant prices…… You’re right, I’ll never understand that.
          I guess I’ll take my chances with all the BTs that are attached to me.
          I’ve kind of grown fond of them anyway. After all, they were just the innocent victims of Xenu’s wrath.

    • Simple

      Thanks Dan.

    • nottrue

      Play with your cans all you want just don’t hurt anybody

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Must function off of that missing section of Ohm’s law I’ve heard whispers about.

      • stillgrace2

        Didn’t Michael Faraday gossip about that very thing!?

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Was he in or out of the cage at that point?

          • stillgrace2

            I don’t know, our reception cut out and I lost him before he could confirm.
            Hardy-har-har!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Really? Shocking!

    • 0tessa

      In spite of everything, I know you are right.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      I’m sorry – I can’t let this pass.
      Dan, with all due respect, you are defending the indefensible.
      There is zero scientific study of the e-meter.

      You say:
      “Electrical engineers who are not also auditors do not have a freaking clue about how the meter works beyond the electrical circuitry of the device. None.”

      Perhaps you ought to say ” Auditors who are not also electrical engineers do not have a freaking clue about how the meter works beyond the electrical circuitry of the device. None.”
      That auditors practice quack medecine without a licence is obviously true.
      That Hubbard was a liar and a con is true.

      Galvanic skin resistance is very well studied – just not by you.
      Neuroscientists (and I know more than a few) would be the people to have study your phenomena.
      Just because i don’t know how something works doesn’t mean I can’t find out throuth double-blind
      reproducible studied.

      Hubbard was NOT the discoverer of a revolution of the mind.
      He couldn’t even deal with his own insanity.
      Science doesn’t give a fuck about your deeply held opinions.

      • 0tessa

        I’m sorry, but having audited and worked with the e-meter, I have to admit that some very specific needle reactions do exist in connection with things the person audited is experiencing.
        Compare the work of prof. Servan Schreiber who works with a similar bio-feedback system in relation to irratic heartbeatings. The needle of the e-meter can show the same irratic movements.
        I simply try to keep an open mind about it.

        • Kim O’Brien

          you can light up a light bulb using a potato

          • Juicer77

            What happens if you rub the potato, or speak nicely to it?

            • coonellie

              You get starchy hands 😉

          • salin

            Mmmmm potatoes. Think I will go parboil a few in preparation for dinner. But I will specifically select ones that are not attached to a light bulb.

          • stillgrace2

            Well … maybe a low-voltage LED; and lemons work best- and preferably one zinc nail and one iron nail.

          • Chee Chalker

            I call that a potato bop slam

            • Newiga

              Sounds yummy! Can I have with with onion rings? 😛

            • Sejanus

              Pringles Pin

          • ObsessedReader

            Hahaaa! Good analogy. Thanks for the laugh!

          • Sherbet

            Only if the potato has overts.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            and let us not forget what and how is the e=meter being used? during auditing? and what goes on in auditing? oh you know a “religion/church/faith” asking the person being audited UTTERLY INAPPROPRIATE, UNETHICAL, IMMORAL, INVASIVE INTIMATE questions about someone’s entire life including their sexual life, history, fantasies and deeds and in DETAIL! and writing this information of answers demanded in a “file folder” for all time, that one does not even have access or rights to their OWN INFORMATION AND FOLDER! yes, very “normal” of a religion!.. screw this ridiculous piece of 5 dollar device! it’s what it is used in conjunction with that is beyond wrong and evil!..

        • villagedianne

          I see what you are saying Otessa. But it appears that the E-meter, while it may produce results, is IMO far cruder than other systems of bio-feedback. And just like a lie detector, the E-meter can be fooled.

          • 0tessa

            I agree with that.

        • Chee Chalker

          Not unlike how a lie detector ‘reacts’ to certain things a person is experiencing (lying or telling the truth). There’s no magic to that either

          • coonellie

            Especially as a sociopath can fool the lie detector and get “truth” readings.

            • villagedianne

              Reportedly you can fool the meter or a lie detector without being a sociopath.

            • coonellie

              You’re right, of course, I just have up close and personal experience with a sociopath and the ability to fool anyone and anything.

          • 0tessa

            Exactly.

            • Chee Chalker

              Right, it measures heart rate, perspiration, etc. Measurable items. Not thoughts. Thoughts are not measurable and have no mass.
              Unlike Hubbard, who was measurable and had no class.

            • 0tessa

              I would say that (disturbing e.g.) thoughts have an effect on the body (heart beat, neuro-fysiological, etc.), that would be measurable by a bio-feedback system, even as crude as the e-meter. As Techie explained, those reactions would be slower and less sharp than body movements. On the old e-meter course one learned specifically to distinguish between ‘real’ reads and body-movement reads.

            • Chee Chalker

              Yes I agree….one’s heart rate increases when being deceptive, etc. I’m sure the same thing happens when thinking unpleasant thoughts (ex: death of a loved one)
              No one is arguing the E-meter can’t measure certain things (isn’t the e-meter often referred to as ‘one half of a lie detector’)
              I was just commenting that things like a ‘theta bop’ and ‘rock slam’ do not necessarily mean what LRH said they did.
              I don’t understand why Scibots believe everything LRH told them and then make arguments that ‘electrical engineers’ don’t understand the E-meter, yet everything LRH said about it is true ….. I guess that sums up being in a cult.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Techie is THE man and he’s got it right (see above), including his mention of what was originally written in the emeter manuals about it Not flowing through anything like mental mass – I read all of that before it got twisted.

          The physical phenomena you go through when asked disturbing or provoking questions is very real and there’s all kinds of neurological activity going on, so yeah, it can react to some of that, but it’s the physical activity from brain activity. The rest of it can be a combo of body movement and yes definitely can get that old meter to F/N when you really need it to!

          Joe brings us a subject similar to exteriorization. Don’t say confidently it doesn’t exist – it most certainly does – it’s just that the cause is not what Hubbard said and what psychologists and scientists tell us is sure not a Good thing! It’s a symptom of certain disorders and there are many times and many ways the scientology experience will bring about that very real, intense sensory – and it’s not something you forget.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Joe, you are so close to being truly free again. 27 years is such a long time and I get it that your experiences are your own and you had positive results, but I guarantee that those positive effects you found from auditing had nothing to do with that godforsaken E-meter. I may snark too much on here, but know that it sincerely hurts my heart to see people get stuck on the meter and Hubbard’s “research”.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        and may i add, regardless if you truly think it has worked for you? what about the countless others MORE then in numbers then you and those who have said it worked for them that not only did it “not work for them” but their treatment? uh, shouldn’t others and the number of others be more important then YOU and your little own experience and life?….

    • nottrue

      This moves too…..

      • salin

        Those freaked me out as a kid.

    • Captain MustSavage

      No one knows what needle movement actually means. Hubbard MADE UP definitions for needle movement the same way he made up words like enturbulate (had to write that a few times as my autocorrect kept trying to highlight it as a misspelling). Scientologists just believe Hubbards made up meanings. It reminds me of the way people used to believe the religious experts ‘signs’ that someone was a witch back in the 16th and 17th centuries. Everyone believed it which made it ‘true’, only, it wasn’t. Belief in the emeter is like that.

      • Graham

        Good analogy.

      • Edward Bell

        “No one knows what needle movement actually means. Hubbard MADE UP definitions for needle movement the same way he made up words like enturbulate…..”

        More like “Hubbard MADE UP definitions for needle movement the same way he made up……. a whole religion.”

        Everything about it is made up. Except the bits he stole from other religions. Then it was them that made those bits up.

        • Tracy Schmitz

          you forgot to add, “the way hubbard made up his ENTIRE LIFE!”…. but oh wait, once again those still “in” don’t know ANY OF THIS….

        • Captain MustSavage

          Agreed.

      • The most alarming thing is that because I use it so often, when I type entrubulate into my iPad, it recognizes it as a word. #getalife

        • Captain MustSavage

          Scary. Stop using it. Regular use gives Hubbard’s neologisms a weight they do not deserve.

          • What I’m I’m alarmed by my the fact that computers can actually keep track of my grammar usage. I’m also alarmed by humans telling me what I can and can’t say or write. I use enturbulate, entheta and all the other Hubbardian fabrications here, in posts where they’re germane to the topic. I also use it on my fiction where it’s also important. It’s not like I tell the postwoman that my crushed package has caused me enturbulation.

            • Captain MustSavage

              You’re right. Humble apologies. 🙂

            • We’re a passionate crew. If we didn’t fly off the handle from time to time, we wouldn’t be us, now would we? Now where did I put that handle . . . .

    • Sunny Sands

      (F5) You can buy a skin galvanometer for under $200 and try to make it read certain ways, if you want. Your skin reacts to your emotions, or maybe just to the strong coffee you had.

    • Chee Chalker

      And Walter White got an RV to start using metal, sponges and wires……

    • TonyOrtega

      If there was even a shred of truth to this, Dan, why would you risk contaminating the signal from a person’s thoughts with the completely unrelated variables inherent in the subject’s hands, i.e., grip? It is literally impossible for a human being to hold anything with perfect stillness. If thoughts actually did have mass (and of course they don’t), why would you want the reading of that mass interfered with from unstill hands? The answer, of course, is that all the machine ever measured was interference resulting from half a dozen unrelated sources.

      So you end up with a Ouija machine, affected by the ideomotor effect, and reinforced by confirmation bias. And all you can say is “I know it works because I’ve seen it,” which is what every advocate of every pseudoscience has ever said about everything from dousing to pyramid power.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        In addition to responding to grip and sweat variations, I think the meter is also responding to changes in the body’s electrical resistance/impedance as thoughts involve electrical and electro-chemical changes in the brain.

        It is a complicated mish-mash of signals, certainly not the simple-minded hypothesis that Hubbard blithely stated as fact.

        • Kim O’Brien

          it’s also bullshit

          • 3feetback-of-COS

            Well, that goes without saying.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            agreed! and it existing and being used is “religious/church/faith/holy” how again?! RIDICULOUS BEYOND COMPREHENSION!…

      • Sherbet

        Strangely enough, I’d never thought of this before you mentioned it. If “it” worked, it would work on a person lying prone and still, with eyes closed, with no questions being answered, with an electrode stuck on that person’s forehead. The meter would be jumping all over creation, signifying Something Remarkable…

      • scottmercer

        Anecdotes are not evidence. They are merely one person’s experience. The gold standard of scientific evidence consists of double-blind studies. I’m not aware if such a study has never been done with an e-meter in particular, but here is an article debunking a quite similar device. In fact, the article states that the device uses “the same principle used…for Scientology’s e-meters.” https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/13926/

    • jane456

      So only someone in the hubbard game can “understand” what is happening? No other expertise is valid? Please correct me if I am mistaken. Possibly you would consider looking at a variety of opinions on the topic? Or not…

    • Techie

      Gosh “Joe”, you seem to have touched quite a nerve. Even the Proprietor and our beloved Pan have joined forces to trash your contribution. And not a single up vote until I upvoted you just now.

      I knew you at INT and one of my room-mates was the PC that told “Joe Howard” I’ve never understood a single thing you’ve said! Last I heard the fuzzy haired twin of “Joe Howard” was still mowing lawns. He of the classic line We was just a bunch of robots! Good! Fine! Thank you! Good times indeed.

      It seems to be a very popular myth that the e-meter is a complete fake, that all the reads are just hand motion or sweat. Remember the famous line in “How the E-meter Works”, where the FBI plant stands up in the lecture and says You’re wrong! The meter reads on sweat! and when the needle goes up, that means the PC unsweats!

      The e-meter is just a simplified galvanic skin resistance meter. It is not too different than other such instruments that are well studied. I can say that because I was once Director of Research and Design (yes, they got the definition of the acronym R & D wrong) for the Hubbard Electrometer organization. At one time I had three e-meter related patents, only one of which still remains available online. I contributed to the design of the VII and the VIII and designed the Drills Simulator for the VII. Part of the design work I did for the Drills Simulator was to gather up actual recorded reads of all the major needle phenomena.

      What I found out from looking at actual recorded needle phenomena is that they are all low frequency signals. They are far below the frequency of the swings of the needle, so the needle is not excited to exhibit its native ballistics phenomena in normal use. Possibly this may not be true of a rock slam, I was never able to capture a real rock slam. That is what you are supposed to discover when you do the meter drill where the coach demonstrates various hand grip changes and so forth. The real mental reactions are slower and do not make the needle wobble about. A good auditor can easily see the difference and go on working even when the PC twitches a bit.

      The meter shows changes in the body that result from mental reactions. It does not show anything about actual mental masses or energy phenomena of the spirit or any of the strange explanations that Hubbard ascribed to it. There is even a quote in one of the early versions of the Red Volumes where he says something like “Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the current flows through the mind” or something like that. It was later taken out of the Red Volumes because it was suspected that the paper, “Electropsychometric Auditing” or some such, may have been actually written by Volney Mathison. If so it just shows that Mathison knew more about it than Hubbard did.

      It was Mathison that came up with the idea of using tin plated steel cans as electrodes, and they work just fine. He also sometimes used steel wool electrodes or foot plates.

      So your critics are right in saying that Hubbard had no clue about what the meter really reads and what the reads really mean. But they are wrong to say there is no such thing as a meter read. It is a well attested phenomenon outside of the Scientology world. To be brutally fair you would have to mention that in “Keeping Scientology Working” Hubbard did actually say that his system was empirically derived, not deduced from first principles. But he then went on to spout a pile of unproven woo about how the meter works, so there is no point in giving him a pass on that point. Especially with the attack dogs on this blog on the prowl.

      • B4you

        “What I found out from looking at actual recorded needle phenomena is that they are all low frequency signals. They are far below the frequency of the swings of the needle, so the needle is not excited to exhibit its native ballistics phenomena in normal use”

        This is not right on many levels. The frequency can not be “lower” than the Needle swings or you would see it! There is nothing else to see, other than what the needle is showing! There are no hidden signals either lower or higher! Not even a Digital or morse code!

        If you have recorded proof of a Low Frequency Signal or you can reproduce it, then i suggest you show us, and back up your claim!

        That said!

        I have been hooked up to a Meter & Oscilloscope at the same time – and there was no hidden signals that does not show! Even the Tomato drill i did, did not work! I have seen an OT3 do the Tomato drill in front of a group of people in the Academy. It did not work! And not a Clam said a word as usual when some high profile Clam sets up a demonstration of LRH Teak and fail.

        The E-meter is a Ouija board as in “However it works, it does the trick”.

        I could produce all kinds of different reads in your body, if i punched you in your face, a couple of times. You could read a book about being punched in your face and get the same reads

        Rony boy, might have observed that getting those reads did something “good” and they all went euphorics about it and started a Cult Oh! wait – Religion. Then he found out that by insulting people and drag them through the dirt, that really gave some interesting E-meter reads and after some time the insulting things stops and you feel much better with a certificate to prove how stupid you where. It’s not about whether the e-meter works or not – it’s all about the claims that goes with it.

        People get upsets when some freezone dude swings by and spread his seeds of doubts.

        • Techie

          Sorry I didn’t explain that very well, B4you, of course there are no “hidden signals”. What I was trying to say was that the real emotional reactions are all low frequency phenomena, much less than one Hertz. The needle natively acts like a pendulum with a one Hertz period and low damping. If you turn on the meter, you will see it swinging about at one Hertz. If you move your finger on the cans, or squeeze them etc, the needle will quickly shoot one way or the other and then swing about at one Hertz until it settles down.

          Actual emotional reactions are too slow to get the needle swinging about, so you don’t see the sudden jumps and swinging that you would with a faster stimulus. The needle operates smoothly under these conditions.

          I am not sure what you mean by the “tomato test” but I am not surprised to hear it did not work. Tomatoes don’t have the necessary guts to do what a person does, regardless of Hubbard’s whacky assertions.

      • TonyOrtega

        Don’t misquote me, Techie. I’m not saying the meter only reads grip and sweat. Galvanic skin response is affected by emotion, which is how a polygraph works. It doesn’t read your mind, but by measuring your skin galvanism, as well as respiration and heart rate, it can reflect that certain questions make you produce a stress response which might — only might — indicate deception. This is why courts are often reluctant to use them, because they are much cruder than the public believes. The e-meter is even cruder, only measuring skin galvanism, but what little information it might measure is contaminated by the completely unnecessary introduction of holding the sensors in the hands. Ask a polygraph expert why they would never do that. Because it introduces variables which make the resulting signal useless. It’s noise. And as useful as tea leaves — which some people, of course, swear contains specific data. Just like in every other pseudoscience. I have yet to hear from a single Scientologist why the sensors should be held, rather than attached like more legitimate devices that measure brain activity. Other than, of course, “Hubbard said so.”

        • Techie

          Oddly enough, I do vaguely recall some issue by Hubbard where he says holding the cans gives the PC the feeling that he is more in control over the process, and also jokingly notes that having the cans in view gives the auditor the chance to duck if the PC decides to throw them.

          All kidding aside, it is strange to be seeming to defend Hubbard. Whether the meter successfully displays GSR information or is fatally flawed, it is in either case a dangerous and foolish way to conduct therapy of any kind. I didn’t mean to legitimize it, only to try to explain it a bit better.

          Maybe after all those years trying to make Scientology work I still have a little loyalty to the hardware I worked on. The way an old Stalinist tank mechanic brags about how he got the treads to roll using butter when the grease ran out.

        • grundoon

          To understand the auditing process, you have to conceptualize it as an interactive theatrical performance. If you consider it as therapy, as science, or even as pseudoscience, you have been misled into error by Hubbard’s clever framing.

          The e-meter is a prop, that helps both the PC and auditor to put credence in the auditing process, and gives the auditor “altitude” over the PC. For Hubbard’s purpose, it doesn’t matter whether noise or data comes out of the meter.

          The body is continually moving (breathing, digestion) and moves in response to thoughts and emotions. This is not controversial. It should be no surprise that some of these physical processes can cause a meter to fluctuate.

          Hubbard’s clever trick was to look for apparent patterns in the needle movement, and make up names and significances for them which would draw the curiosity of PCs and auditors. As his predecessors had done with patterns in tea leaves or tarot cards, LRH updated with mid-20th-century sciencey theming.

          Or like a slot machine, which spins up random symbols. Someone made up patterns, like three cherries, and gave them a significance, like 2-to-1 payoff. When you hit an F/N, you win – end session! Until then, keep pumping coins into the slot. At Ron’s Casino, the house always wins.

    • Edward Bell

      I’m not sure what point one is all about. I’m not sure if you are attacking Captain Dave or defending him, but from the second point all I can gather is that Joe is a Scientologist and he has been watching Going Clear. Joe, should we be writing up a Knowledge Report on you?

    • sizzle8

      Joe has a point. The needle reactions on an e-meter can be pretty dramatic and are not explainable by sweating and un-sweating. What the exact mechanism is that explains them, I couldn’t really tell you.

      • B4you

        There are so many things going on in the body we can not explain, but we don’t turn it into a religion.

        Or do we? 🙂

      • Doc M

        But they can be possibly explained by the different hormones, pheromones etc that we are constantly secreting through the skin. The amount is constantly varying. Different molecules would have different electric charges which would cause different resistances in the circuit.

        Also, as the e-meter is used on people divulging secrets or becoming even more emotional, again, hormones. (adrenals, thyroid, gonads, etc)

        I would bet this has something to do with it.

        However, to think that they are really measuring the mass of thought is pure science fiction.

    • B4you

      “get a subjective understanding” ? as in Fortune telling ?
      How about an objective understanding – like, the Meater reads when you don’t feel good and stops when you do feel good. Problem is, it does not help anybody!

  • Sid (Phil)

    Ocala Mission: This is the one JT set up, or at least paid for. For a long time Flag sent Sea Org staff to help make sure it was doing well. I know one girl from CMO who spent a lot of time there. Most missions don’t get that type of support.

    • Observer

      Interesting

  • Draco

    Good night all XXX

    • Juicer77

      Sleep well!

  • Beth

    I won’t be paying for any scientology OT levels, but if there was a way to watch David Miscavige on a live streaming hidden webcam in his office these days, I’d be willing to pay more for it than I should.

    • SlappyCam™! Now that’s what I’d call entertaining reality television.

  • Sunny Sands

    (F5) They are starting to set up Winter Wonderland in Clearwater. The location of the picture is the new Osceola Courtyard park, across the street from the old WW location.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Looks like a nice place for a Bunker field trip. Jimmy, my mom will sign your permission slip if yours won’t.

      • Sunny Sands

        Notice how scientology has put pavers into the public sidewalk, making the property line between public and private obscured.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I thought the whole park technically public. No?

          • Sunny Sands

            It’s scilon property, but they say all welcome. If someone was specifically told not to come onto their property, like Mark Bunker, or maybe Alex H., they could accidentally be on their property.

        • salin

          I just did a quick google and it looks like this is sponsored by a front group (Clearwater Community Volunteers). I am guessing that locals know the real deal. What is the point of the front group in this case?

          • Sunny Sands

            Anything that masks the name scientology is always a plus for them.

            • salin

              Ala – “well if other groups are involved as well as CoS… It can’t be too culty.” ?

            • Sunny Sands

              If you look at the sponsor list of CCV, I only see sci related. But yes, many times they try to partner with non-sci to look more legitimate.

          • Headed by Joanie Sigal‎, community safe-pointing.

            Category:Clearwater Community Volunteers

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Longtime OSA Operative.

            • Sejanus

              Cruella deVille?….lol

            • Ella Raitch

              Those teeth look like they bite. Rowf!

            • salin

              That dissolution was dated 7 weeks ago. Good catch. Wonder what it means?

            • Not enough rank and file to keep the paperwork going?

            • Vaquera

              See above comment to RMy.

            • Vaquera

              CCV changed their name to Tampa Bay Today back in March, which probably explains the dissolution. TBT is still active. f5

            • No name change listed, no new “Tampa Bay Today” incorporation.

            • Vaquera

              I’m just passing on the info that CCV made an announcement that they changed their name 8 months ago.

            • salin

              Thank you Vaquera.

            • Vaquera

              Pas de problème. 🙂

    • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

      The lower window on left looks like there’s someone trapped inside that tower – at least until photo is examined closer up. Given that it’s Clearwater, the idea of someone being trapped in a tower by Scientologists for Christmas is weirdly funny. Especially if one imagines that person to be TC put on ice.

    • Juicer77

      Remind me, didn’t they cancel this event last year?

      • Sunny Sands

        I think the Hollywood version was cancelled, Clearwater was held as usual.

        • Juicer77

          Thanks. I couldn’t find the comments from last year.

          • scottmercer

            Looks like Hollywood is back.

    • Simi Valley

      It has a kind of Potemkin Village/fake Disneyland look.

      • It needs a 30′ high L. Ron Hubbard caganer — part of a traditional Catalan Christmas.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Thanks for that mental image.

      • Every Ideal Morgue is a Potemkin Village.

    • Sejanus

      Red teepees and tudor style trim?
      Someone musta got some off rice and beans.
      Needs moar cowbell.

  • nottrue

  • Simi Valley

    Xander posted a very interesting comment on wwp today that I want to cross-post here; he spells out the significance of recent events for protesters in downtown CW:

    “[The] [i]njunction still exists. CoS can still have anyone and everyone served with a copy of it. However, the difference now is, CPD won’t get involved with or respond to any calls relating solely to the fact that a protester was served and is protesting at Flag. That means no more being detained and having to talk about the injunction with an officer, or having to provide personal information for an incident report. Now, in order for CPD to respond to such a call, CoS will have to get a judge to add a person to the injunction. That requires a ton of work, and the second they file to do that it immediately grants legal standing to a person to challenge the existence of the injunction 14 years after the LMT folded and everyone left town. It also opens them up to having to pay attorney fees anytime they bring a claim against someone that they acted in concert with Bunker or any other named party based on de minimus contacts such as having dinner or coffee together (and given that none of the named parties actually protests in Clearwater anymore, that’s all CoS could claim.) That’s a double whammy that I don’t see CoS risking.

    For all intents and purposes, for anyone not named in the injunction, this message from the chief of police means no one has to worry about getting sucked into any law enforcement or legal proceedings regarding the injunction. Ever. Under any circumstances including, I dare say, someone who actually is acting in concert with the named parties. Even if that were to happen, which at this point I would maintain is an impossibility for myriad reasons, that opens the door to challenging the injunction on the basis that everything’s changed since original issuance.This is why they won’t file to have me added, why they won’t file to have anyone else added. It would put the injunction at risk and they won’t do that.”

    • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

      It seems to me that the co$ has a tendency to act in ways that defy logic, and DM forces stupid moves into happening a lot. Never say never.

      • Juicer77

        Incredible that they would hold such a bitter grudge against several people from years ago (most of whom are relocated and/or deceased) even though it earns them no favors today. Hubbardthink in action.

        • Kestrel

          They’re bullies, and any act to intimidate others will be used.

        • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

          It will hopefully be their ultimate downfall someday…preferably sooner rather than later.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Too late for Winter the Dolphin 🙁

            • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

              What happened to Winter the Dolphin?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I can guarantee you that if I or a number of other SP’s stand on certain downtown Clearwater sidewalks the police would be there under 2 minutes to “question” or what I like to call, harass. And if certain celebs and whales were in the building I was walking in front of, scientology may or may not call in a crime report- sure, it’s a false one, but they do it All The Time and have done so for over a decade. So it’s real handy if you bring a lawyer with you for a stroll down Ft Harrison 🙂 No injunction needs to be mentioned at all.

          I can no more walk down their streets without police harassment more often than not than can my black friends walk down certain areas in Ferguson, MO. But then, I’m unable to protest and I loathe Clearwater area, so it’s not a problem for me, but others may run into some of his batshit screwball antics. Said it before, it really depends on which of DM’s buds are in town.

          • scottmercer

            I guess we shall see. I’m sure Darth X. is going to test it out.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Yeah, it helps to be a lawyer, and Darth may have got himself a nice umbrella all around, which I hope is the case. He does important work. I just tell anyone that if there interested in a walk thru to never go alone, always have ID and a camera. If you happen to have a lawyer on retainer, invite him along!

          • Lighthouse

            Then report the dudes for not complying with the new status and tell the police you’ll report harassment. Is there not someone to refer this, too? Surely there is.

            Go and lay a charge at the police station for harassment – both from the police and the church.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            THDNE, I’m sorry, I do see Your own point, but that doesn’t apply to most others I believe. I only know of one time in the last 4 years when we were questioned for our purpose with the Limo stopping. Were you personally stopped while attending the
            Flag Down event or Tony’s book signing? I don’t remember anyone having trouble except Alex and he’s done so well to help us all.

            I’m a tax paying citizen of Clearwater for 28 years and Florida since ’72. I like most of Clearwater and it’s very much bigger than the downtown area.

            I only had trouble once when by myself, sitting in the Lisa walkway reading an SP book so they could see the cover. After they called police on pretense that there was trouble in the park and there was only me. I discussed it with the officers and told them I was a former member. They said, “Oh now we understand” They ended up saying I can sit in the park anytime and all day if wanted tho best not to initiate talk with them.
            Now the scio’s hardly walk thru that area, so I don’t do it anymore. Also walk downtown with other SP’s on occasion and we are not bothered by police.

            Public sidewalks, private stores, restaurants and parks are for the public who have rights. We don’t harass them, but they watch us, and gives them some excitement for the day.

    • salin

      Thanks for posting this here. Really good move (and analysis) on Xander’s part.

    • Juicer77

      Thank you for the repost for those of us catching up. Typical Co$ stupidity. Excellent explanation by Darth. As an attorney he is a formidable foe to them.

    • madame duran

      Oh happy day!

    • Margie8

      What/where is WWP? Thanks! Oh, also, “whales?”

      • Simi Valley

        whyweprotest.net
        Whales = clams with big bucks, like TC, Bob Duggan, etc.

        • Margie8

          Ah, OK. Thanks.

    • Lighthouse

      This is so great, thank for the info.

      Little by little the co$ is being reduced and brought down to size. Their bully tactics and hysteria have become a lot of hot air and the noise they make is having less and less effect.

      Good news.

  • BosonStark

    Today’s article shows us that Miscavige was a stickler about the tech, and what constitutes a floating needle. It suggests to me that he really believes in the tech and thought that doing it properly would make a difference in Lisa’s outcome, or in her getting to Clear faster.

    In reality, the difference between doing something properly, or to Miscavige’s satisfaction, and something that wasn’t done properly according to L. Ron doesn’t matter. With Lisa in the state she was, Scientology was not going to help her.

    Lisa probably needed to talk about her thoughts and feelings freely, without fear of any repercussions,and not by exploring her past lives or whatever she was doing in auditing. She also needed to be with her mother, a wog friend, or someone she could talk to without fear of a KR being written or it getting back to Scientology.

    Scientology auditing involves overcoming having a reaction of stress or anxiety to a specific problem or event. And then you go over all these until you can think about it and be relaxed enough for the needle to float, repeating them if necessary. After months or years, you can’t think of anything to get upset over and you’re clear.

    But if a person is overwhelmed by the onset of a complex set of problems, especially including having doubts about auditing itself, or it’s power to help with anything, that doesn’t seem like something auditing would help a person with at all.

    A new person coming into Scientology might be willing to go through their problems one by one, but Lisa had been in it for years, done lots of auditing, and probably felt she should be successful, well, and happy and not even having these problems.

    Let’s say there was something organically going wrong, like a hormone imbalance — a thyroid or adrenal problem — well, then Scientologists have no means of dealing with that if they think most everything is traceable to engrams. I’m just trying to consider that the problems were most likely due to Scientology itself, and Lisa being a Scientologist, rather than a “technical” mistake within Scientology, caused by Miscavige or anyone.

    Scientology has a lot of limitations if a person’s problems are more complex, like bipolar disease, have come on suddenly, have an organic basis, or if their depression is other than mild. Instead of helping her with those things, Scientology drove her to her death.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Thank you, Boson. You and Once_Born have contributed a lot of excellent comments today.

      • BosonStark

        Thank you. I was feeling a little obsessive. I guess I feel that Lisa’s story is a microcosm of all that is wrong with Scientology, and all that can go wrong with it.

        In medicine, a lot of horrible things can go wrong too. But it’s not because the overall ethic is to do no harm to the profession — it’s do no harm to the patient. With Scientology, it’s all about Scientology first, KSW and selling it.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          For Scientology, it’s more like the Hypocritic Oath, huh?

    • grundoon

      “Miscavige was a stickler about the tech, and what constitutes a floating
      needle. It suggests to me that he really believes in the tech”

      Implausible. More likely, this was Miscavige’s way of taking Scn’s tech hierarchy down a few pegs and getting “altitude” over them. David Miscavige was disrespected by auditors and C/Ss because they had years of training and practice, directly from LRH is some cases, while he had no qualifications to speak of. So he attacked them on their most vulnerable point. DM carried out a personal program to establish himself as THE tech authority just as he was already THE ethics and admin authority.

      DM’s pattern is to dominate a rival by attacking their greatest strength and making it work against them. He did this with great success against LRH, against Broeker, against MSH. Power is the only thing Miscavige really believes in.

  • nottrue

    I see they are doing Winter Wonderland next to the Test Center in Hollywood this year….Bummer

  • villagedianne

    Squirrel Tech f5:

    • pat k

      Giggle

    • beauty for ashes

      He totally reminds me of a Japanese movement artist. He even looks like he has on the pants! <3<3<3

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      ^^ answering by showing your penis will do wonders as well.

  • Thomas Weeks

    So, Miscavige was Lisa McPherson’s C/S. That explains the whole thing. Are their any endeavors that this man can’t miserably fail at?

  • BosonStark

    The whole KSW thing, where keeping Scientology working is the highest dynamic, comes in during Lisa’s last chance. Janice Johnson was treating her at Flag, and called about getting Lisa taken to a hospital loooong after she should have. She called a hospital after Lisa was either dead, or at least unconscious and had been that way for a while.

    Johnson had been a practicing anesthesiologist in Arizona before
    she ran into disciplinary trouble — drug use probably — and let her medical license lapse. She was not licensed to practice medicine in Florida either.

    Had Dr. Johnson’s main loyalty not been to Scientology, L. Ron, her superiors at Flag, she would have cared enough about Lisa to get her to a hospital when she first stopped eating and drinking. I wouldn’t expect anyone as mindfkd as Miscavige to know this but she, with her medical training and six years as a physician, should have known this.

    We know that Marty called one shot on his own, to destroy the crucial records on the care of Lisa for her last few days at the Ft. Harrison. It’ll be interesting if it comes out in this series that Miscavige controlled more than we knew about. At the end, I think it was more of a case the people taking care of her making some terrible mistakes, possibly under the pressure to “make things go right.”

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      That is problem with KSW and the whole “greatest good for greatest number” philosophy — it opens the door to rationalization of terrible crimes.

      • BosonStark

        Exactly. It’s pretty ironic that they very thing that turns on Tom Cruise so much, KSW, seems downright frightening to outsiders. It scared me when Tom Cruise talked about it in his video.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          KSW and the whole “greatest good for greatest number” philosophy may turn out to be their biggest Achilles heel.

          • scottmercer

            But they don’t get that because Scientology is such a tiny group, and that they are so opposed to anyone outside the group, that The Greatest Good For The Greatest Number is actually to dismantle Scientology and give all its money to Doctors Without Borders or some other group that does actual provable good.

  • nottrue

    He was Hubbard’s doctor on the Apollo…https://twitter.com/KarendlaCariere/status/665980671714705408

  • Suppressive Tomato

    End Phenomena Cognitions, OT 9 & 10

    OT 9: Body thetans were really spiritual manifestations of MEST. Total freedom requires I get rid of all MEST possessions. Route to Treasury Secretary to make IAS beneficiary of my estate.

    OT 10: MEST body is the last inhibitor to survival of the Thetan. Drop body to reach Target 2.

    Now DM just has to write the rundowns to produce these effects.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You just know Miscavige is scribbling all these ideas down as the day goes on! Imagine his relief. Now he’ll actually have something to feed his flock by New Year’s. And here he was worried. We wouldn’t let him down, would we?

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Maybe he will say he was visited by thetan LRH and told what to do. That way he can still say he is on “SOURCE.”

      • Sherbet

        And where did lrh allegedly leave the descriptions of OT9 and 10? In a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnall’s porch until such time as DM could reveal them in all their truth and glory? For a price, of course.

        • salin

          Nah, not written. Just descriptive of LRon’s last days. Eta: let’s everyone be like Ron.

          • Sherbet

            I’m curious as to what DM will say. Whoopee! Look what we finally found! Or What we finally purged of semicolons! Or What lrh left instructions for, that it be released year-end 2015!

            • Tracy Schmitz

              i’m thinking he’s already laughing so hard and so red tears are coming out of his eyes everyday with him imagining “hooking” tc up to this insanity YET AGAIN!…..and since 1987!…

        • scottmercer

          Four Foot Thirteen can say whatever he wants, who’s going to question it. Hubbard wrote it, and now that the Ideal Org program has been so successful, we’re able to release it. Hubbard left instructions to release it in 30 years. Hubbard beamed it in from Target Two. Whatever. But he does have to claim it comes from Hubbard. Unless…the ultimate ego trip would be for Mustravage to admit openly that HE wrote it, based on LRH, because DLHDM is such a Big Being and the True Inheritor of the legacy of the Great Blubtard, that only he is qualified to write new levels. I don’t put it past him.

          • Sherbet

            It will be interesting, to say the least. It probably won’t surpass the silliness of the lrh’s dropped meat body announcement, but it will be a moment for clams to suspend all disbelief.

      • Newiga

        I think DM should continue with BTs because, let’s face it, you’ll never get rid of all of them. 😉 Following ST’s logic above, OT 9 is about BTs who were thieves/hordes/materialistic a-holes previosly. Thus, these BTs needed their O/Ws relating to MEST possessions handled ASAP.

        • Sherbet

          Did you just have alphabet soup for dinner, Newiga?

          • Newiga

            I had two bowls… *blushes* <:-P

            • Sherbet

              OK…

            • Newiga

              More likely culprit for it could be that I’m really tired. Too late to be coherent.

            • Sherbet

              Unfortunately, I’d guess everyone in the Bunker understands every acronym you used. None of us has a life!

            • beauty for ashes

              Sherbs are you sure you weren’t a vaudevillian in a past life ?

    • scottmercer

      You joke, but…

  • Madison KinSmed

    A bit OT: does Leah Remini mention her interview with John Sweeney in her book? I’m reading his book and he states she denied the existence of Xenu.

    • Kristin Rawls

      She does, but I don’t think she mentions that part. But she has a really good description of it overall; she was mainly concerned with the way he was treated.

    • salin

      She does. Said she was disturbed by the CoS treatment of Sweeney (Tommy Davis & Mike Rinder) and ultimately did not sign off on being part of the project for the BBC. There is CoS footage with her floating around the web.

      • Chee Chalker

        I think the Co$ did not allow any of the celebrities to be part of the BBC footage. The BBC was only allowed to use it because the Co$ put out their own video of Sweeney with the celebs.

        • salin

          Interesting. That would be foot bullet # ?

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I just went back and listened to the audio of the chapter where she talks about the interview. She doesn’t say specifically that he asked her about Xenu and she denied it. She did, however, use her account of the interview to frame how scientologists are trained to answer questions. She talks about what she was prepared to say in response to questions like one about Xenu. But she says that instead he asked her questions she wasn’t ready for–like, “Does David Miscavige hit people?” And her response was to make a joke, which didn’t work out so well.

      Then, like Salin says, she goes on to talk about how much hell Tommy and Mike gave Sweeney, how that bothered her, and how she refused to sign a release form afterwards to allow her footage to be used.

      • Juicer77

        How could it be public if she never signed the release? Wondered as I read Troublemaker. Honest question.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          You mean the raw footage that someone posted the other day? I assume that was leaked, but I’d be curious to know. In Scientology and Me, they show some b-roll of the celebs interviewed and stills with Sweeney paraphrasing their responses (I think just to the Xenu question). In the follow-up Secrets of Scientology, there’s some actual interview footage with Alley, Archer, and Lewis, but not Remini. Perhaps the CoS releasing its own footage of Sweeney yelling at Tommy opened up a loophole for the BBC? I really don’t know.

    • Ben Franklin

      I think he did. In the Panonorama documentary he can be seen asking Kirstie Alley about Xenu.Leah Remini also appears st the 19:00 mark in the Panorama clip attached.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAn_qA2E7rs

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Thanks for posting this because I’ve been lazy about going back to watch it. So it looks like they were able to show brief clips and stills of the celebs interviewed, but not their actual responses. In response to the Xenu question, the program shows their facial expressions, then stops the footage as Sweeney paraphrases their response in VO (basically, they all deny it). It’s interesting what happens when he asks Remini, around 21:30–Remini laughs and starts to formulate her answer, but Tommy interrupts and answers for her.

        Oh, Tommy…I miss that dickhead.

        • villagedianne

          “Oh, Tommy…I miss that dickhead.”

          Me too.

      • villagedianne

        Tommy Davis getting angry, real angry. The look on Kirstie’s face, and yeah, Leah’s face too. Priceless nostalgia for Scientology watchers.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        yes very religious/church/moral/holy ole tommy’s actions were weren’t they? and the obvious “elephant in the room” WHY WAS HE THERE IN PERSON, IN THAT ROOM while the celebs were being interviewed?! it’s obvious of course!

      • B4you

        You really need to be angry, if you have to tell people about it!

    • Libertylover

      It was in the follow up John Sweeney did. She laughs and Tommy Davis cuts John off at the 1hr 10 min mark.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9YQVJXaNK8

  • Knusern

    So. How long will it taker for OT9 and 10 material to leak out? Who will get it first, paying customers or the interwebs?

    • scottmercer

      Exactly my thought. This will be our first chance to see Miscavige attempting to imitate Hubbard’s writing style with materials made-up in total.

    • Miss Tia

      okay, i’m gonna offer OTX, which will entail giving a lesson how to do counted cross stitch (hence the X 😉 …..and i’ll offer it free!

      • beauty for ashes

        Seriously that looks like an OTX ability. Miss Lovely still amazes me!

        • Miss Tia

          Oh, Tia: X-stitch (OTX 😉 HAHA!!! anyone can learn it, if i can do it, anyone can!!!

    • ze moo

      Some that info has already leaked out.

      • Knusern

        colour me intrigued

  • Illinoisian

    Just want to remind us all that Mark Bunker’s campaign to fund the final stage of production of Knowledge Report has been running for two weeks and he’s less than $750 from being fully funded. Think about it. We’d all love to see this film completed and get a look at the great interviews he’s compiled (and it would keep the ‘book-film-book-film’ momentum rolling along). Oh, to hear the yelping from CoS as yet *another* film is released!

    https://www.gofundme.com/828upves

  • Sejanus

    The Lisa M. events punctuate vividly how Dinky Massengil destroys anything he comes in contact with both figuratively and literally.
    It also shows how seriously deadly this cult can be as well as remorseless.
    L.Ron Hubbard was a sick, greedy little self absorbed monster that had no more business speaking ‘scientifically’ than an inbred lemming.

  • Bob Crouch

    Wow, I’d never noticed this before. They sure make their podiums tiny to make sure that Miscavige towers over them like the “big being” that he is. Looks like something you’d find at Toys-R-Us to help kids build self-esteem.

    • villagedianne

      I noticed that. It doesn’t even reach to that guy’s waist.

  • I wonder why DeVocht never did anything about all the evil he saw Miscavige perpetrate?

    • outraged

      I imagine it’s a complex soup of all kinds of reasons and feelings. There are hundreds of people in Scientology who saw evil, millions of people in Germany who saw evil. Everyone fights back the best they can in each particular situation.

    • Sid (Phil)

      Anyone who was in Scientology for any length of time saw some level of evil or craziness. We all have our crosses to bear on the evils, whether big or small, that we failed to prevent.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Didn’t he say in an interview that he believed in DM, thought he knew what he was doing? Like the others, he was basically brainwashed…

    • 0tessa

      His work-relationship with Miscavige must have been ‘too close for comfort’.

  • One Human

    Does anyone know if Leah was at the opening of Super Powers, and if so, did she see the heli-banner?

    • Eclipse-girl

      She had left by then.

      She left in the summer of 2013.
      The SP building opened in Nov 2013

      • One Human

        Thank you, couldn’t remember the exact time frame of both events.

    • skiesareblue

      Even if she wasn’t there, she must have gotten immense satisfaction from seeing it online. She filed the Missing Person’s Report in August, so to see that banner a few months later had to have been a great moment for her.

  • beauty for ashes

    This guy? A leader of a religion? I’m just so struggling with the descriptions of David Miscavige as a spiritual leader from today’s story. He doesn’t seem to use any sort of good judgement based on scientology’s principles at all. Bitch get in there and audit her? WTF DM? Have you no shame?

    • Eclipse-girl

      LHD is a Big Being.
      He has no shame.

      • beauty for ashes

        I want to give him some, it looks like he could use it!!!!!!!

        • Eclipse-girl

          Most of us grow up and learn shame and guilt.
          That helps us learn empathy and compassion.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Excuse me, are you new here?

      • beauty for ashes

        Apparently DM shocked me out of my usual tolerance today! Which is a good thing. I don’t ever want to get used to him.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Good answer, good answer! Survey says……….BUUUUURRRRR! Sorry, try again.

          • beauty for ashes

            I’m not sure, because I forgot what the hell started this conversation, but I think you deserve a WEDGIE!!!!! ****runs away laughing but still running ****

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Don’t make me call Rasha.

      • Beth

        lol.

      • Tree

        Snork! Tea went down the wrong pipe.

  • daytoncapri

    On the People site, “mon elle” and “elle” are having an interesting exchange. Plus, “elle” explains to me that there is no such thing as fair gaming. http://www.people.com/article/leah-remini-says-she-still-does-not-know-shelly-miscavige-whereabouts

    • Ella Raitch

      Well that’s news to those in the cult who have already defended their practice of fair gaming.

      • daytoncapri

        Ella, feel free to go over there and make that point … Maybe with search term maybe if they don’t take links. A close friend of mine has been fair gamed, and I doubt that I can be very patient about that topic tonight. Part of the exercise wkth elle is to keep the reading public informed. I am surprised at elle’s denial of fair gaming. I thought she would endorse it.

        • Ella Raitch

          I occasionally do but not up for it today. Given the choice between communicating with those two or sticking needles in my eyes I’d go with the latter today. I think they do a pretty fine job of proving they are lunatics to anyone reading their random comments.

          • daytoncapri

            We’re on the same page.

            Oh, I expect to respond to her, but not in the moment. I confess to having been cold, heartless, abrasive and even cruel at times. Too often. I credit Scientology for making me especially capable in those traits. I wonder if there are active examples of that on the net right now? 😉

            On happier news, my wife and I have just finished a nice mish-mash meal of spaetzle, acorn squash and kippered herring. Lots of comfort food in that mix, and, sadly, elle would not be the best choice as a dessert.

            Instead, we finished tonight with a surprise gift from a Slovenian friend from this morning. ending the meal with a happy smile. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prekmurska_gibanica

            • Ella Raitch

              Delish!

        • Missionary Kid

          As long as you use but TonyOrtega dot org you can get away with posting links.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        No fair gaming. That’s news to Paulette Coper also. Maybe Tony should retract TUML and apologize to little captain david black heart let him die miscavige for the misunderstanding….

      • villagedianne

        COS used to say “Scientology is not a ‘turn the other cheek’ religion.” Here is some commentary on that. Note the identity of the commentator “Churchill.” He is spoken of in TUML.

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33553-quot-Scientology-is-not-a-turn-the-other-cheek-religion-quot

    • Sejanus

      Wow that’s a person with a lot of hate boiling out of them over there..just brutal.

      • daytoncapri

        Fine fettle has joined in. It might be a 2 way conversation for awhile. Scientology is amazing.

    • skiesareblue

      Elle says she has never posted on the Bunker. I replied that that is not true — I have seen her post here.
      Probably all deleted by now.

      • Supper Powers

        At the very least, she admitted she visits here. Hope that eventually puts a fissure in her mountain of unreality.

        • skiesareblue

          It will happen eventually. I think it is important not to get into an “us” versus “them” mentality. Hostility seems to make a crust that is hard to penetrate, and underneath all the brainwashing, she is probably a nice person. I too, get defensive when people attack the Bunker, and I need to remember to stay civil and open.

          • daytoncapri

            It is noble to convert an adversary to a friend.

            • pluvo

              The video above shows what you are dealing with. I can’t quite share the sentiment about ‘saving elle’.

          • Supper Powers

            The end goal is not to be right at all costs. It’s to get them out. To crack their tunnel vision. Everyone responds to things differently. Sometimes it’s logic, sometimes it’s arguing incessantly, sometimes it’s kindness. Who knows how/if she will get out and why. She keeps coming back to argue, so at least she keeps engaging. She certainly cannot believe she’s doing CoS any PR favors.

            • daytoncapri

              Um…WE cannot believe she is doing COS any PR favors.

            • skiesareblue

              Well said, Supper Powers — “the goal is to get them out.”

            • Juicer77

              I would rather say – the goal is to show them there is a way out. Their choice.

            • pluvo

              She/he is hardcore OSA with all the accompanying mindset otherwise he/she would not be regular on the ‘entheta’ sites. In every of her/his comments and repies – or when he/she doesn’t reply – her OSA training to deal with the critics shines through. Trying to talk sense into someone like him/her is in vain.

              Here a video which shows what you are really dealing with:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFcrF3mLwyU

            • Supper Powers

              I didn’t say talk sense into them. I’m saying people have different ways of digesting information based on how it’s delivered. Moreover, I also remember the story of another hard core OSA agent who eventually left after talking with an SP on the interwebz. Name is Magoo or something like that……

            • pluvo

              Yes, that’s Tory. I don’t think Tory can be used as an example. She is unique as is the person who brought her out (Andreas Hedlund). And Tory was not hard core but got sucked into it and was disgusted about it.

            • Supper Powers

              I don’t recall her story quite like that. She uses herself as an example. She says to keep talking to them because you never know. But, I guess I’ll just give up. Good night.

            • pluvo

              Please don’t get me wrong, this is not against you trying to have a conversation with her/him. I just don’t like how this OSA types are playing with you over there. Their
              OSA-trainig-arrogance is shining through every comment or reply they make (or don’t
              make – very selective answers).He /she is not communicating with you really but ‘handling’ you in OSA- style. You know, in their eyes any critic is just considered dumb or degraded or has evil purposes, totally beneath them. They consider themselves being so much superior, it is a kind of master race attitude.

              Jeffrey Augustine wrote about it:

              “The real secret about Scientology is not Xenu or volcanoes.
              What the Church of Scientology does not want the public to know is its biggest secret: Scientologists consider that they are Homo Novis, a new and superior Master Race.”

              http://scientologymoneyproject.com/tag/scientology-master-race/

            • Supper Powers

              I am familiar. Thank you.

            • daytoncapri

              Good post, Pluvo. IMHO, If they cannot be exposed to new thinking, it may still be useful for the world to see how they behave.

            • pluvo

              Sight. I really do understand you and what you are trying to do. But he/she have only contempt for you and anybody who criticizes Scn. Their ‘communication’ is by the OSA strategies how to deal with critics. He/she / is (mis)using your well meant communication to further the OSA agenda to get their message out – in this case to black PR Leah Remini.
              This OSA handlers have to be at least OT3 and very dedicated to be so regularly on the public sites because of the xenu-entheta. I claim that this ‘elle’ is the OSA type and has the mindset of a Donatella who Karen is reporting on the video below. Just be aware who you are dealing with when you try to get your arguments across and he/she gives you reason “to like her”. This is the type of OSA who would not hesitate to treat any whistle-blower like Karen and many other whistle-blowers got treated.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPd4wRFWMNw

            • daytoncapri

              pluvo – I’d welcome a private convo with you, not sure if it it possible.

            • pluvo

              Difficult. Especially now that you are friends with “elle” ;).

            • villagedianne

              Thanks. I haven’t seen this.

            • Juicer77

              This kind of “confront” may be the only positive stat they can report for the week. Which is saying something!

      • daytoncapri

        Here’s a screen shot from 5 months ago. I have named the file daytoncapri loves elle. Nothing bad on elle here, just simple proof that she had posted. I think of her as a naive newbee at this point. I will poke around in the archives to see if there is anything else of use.

      • daytoncapri

        No need to apologize. It did happen. Here’s a second screenshot. I invited elle to come over and have a look-see.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a95554dd7744e4d4c618ebd22d14262a3140f2a3ad721b8c83be6f92aa37a8e2.jpg

        • skiesareblue

          Thank you, daytoncapri. Jack99 found another one of elle’s posts on the Bunker from July 15, 2015.

    • Mockingbird

      In a related story some people claim the earth is flat.

      • daytoncapri

        It’s obviously curvaceous.

    • mon elle

      Hello … glad someone found it interesting,

      • daytoncapri

        Many people did, including bravehearts like you.

  • ze moo

    Tom DeVocht and Marc Headley rank among my heroes. Both decompressed and got on with their lives fairly quickly. There are too many ‘heroes’ to mention here. Tony’s old ‘the 25 people most damaging $cientology’ story is a good place to look for them.

    Lots of the posters here are exs and their expertise has come in handy so many times my big hooves can’t count them.

    The dwarfenführer can ‘release’ any new OT stuff or any of the lower levels, real clams know he is squirreling and are staying away in numbers that foretell the collapse of the clampire. The next 5 years is going to see that 30k membership dwindle down a lot. No attempt to keep the members with their noses to the grindstone is going to work. All clams have to go to the grocery store sometime, and they can’t miss seeing all the entheta on the magazine shelf.

    I don’t care what Tom Cruise says to Oprah, or anyone else. His reputation can’t be salvaged by anything less than an escape and denouncing of Miscavage. I really have to doubt that he’ll ever do that. While Oprah Winfrey has been his ‘friend’ in the past, there are things that she won’t do. Being a stooge for the clampire has no upside for her. I can’t see anyone but some hungry and well paid clam ‘journalist’ doing that dirty job. As they will never be taken seriously again, any interview with TC is the end of anyone’s career.

    Rant over. Every year, at Lisa McPherson time, I get pissed (angry, real angry, for our British friends). Time to watch the end of a football game. Go Giants, mash New England!

    • Amy Forsythe

      Two minutes left on the clock….Giants made it too easy. Should have run down the clock.

    • Captain MustSavage

      Tom Cruise is scientology’s second in command in this galaxy. His meat body’s last drink will be another sip of Kool Aid.

    • villagedianne

      “I can’t see anyone but some hungry and well paid clam ‘journalist’ doing that dirty job.”

      Mostly I agree. But I think Bawa Wawa still wuvs Tom.

  • OT 9 and 10. LOL

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      It’s like the joke and the punchline all in one tidy bundle.

  • Edward Bell

    Just playing devils advocate here but I get the impression that if David Miscavige were to be removed/ step down from power, Scientology might actually improve. The next person up might be a lot nicer and change the ways of the church for the better. I think it may actually be better to leave Captain Dave in power and let him dwindle it away to nothing.

    P.S. I know I’m way behind the times on this one but I just read on Jeffrey Augustine’s website the court transcripts about how Captain Dave doesn’t want to be called Captain so he can be distanced from the Sea Org and therefore not able to be implicated or linked to any unsavory orders (or beatings). Well good for you Captain David Miscavige. You fight it out in court and spend half a million dollars on high priced lawyers just so we officially know what your name is……Captain.

  • H. Keith Henson

    Scientology, from the top down, is concerned with money. I think you need to look into that to figure out why DM was concerned with Lisa MacPherson at all.

    For that, you need to ask what she was doing that was important to the cult. I can’t say this is correct in the sense of it being adjudged in a court, but it does seem to make sense. It also took me longer to parse it out than the statute of limitations so in that respect it was a success.

    Lisa was working for AMC Publishing, a printing company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennetta_Slaughter She was (I think) being used as a conduit to move profits from the company to scientology. (Grossly over compensated and spent most of it on scn courses.) She was probably not the only one being used this way. How did the company make enough money to pay her? It’s something I could not prove, but I strongly suspect that they were using low cost close-to-slave labor imported to CW on religious visas.

    Randy Enerson dug out the records of a municipal court in Clearwater that was used to give new identities to over 120 scientologists (who had come to the US on religious visas) at the rate of two or three a week. Michael B. Steeves was the lawyer involved and a neighbor of some major scientology figure. At the time, the INS told Randy this scheme would take them out of the view of the INS. 120 is just about the right number of printers to staff a medium large print shop.

    It was a fairly clever scheme to convert 3rd world cult labor to US dollars. If they were dedicated scientologists they were less likely to rat out the scheme if they got caught. But given how it turned out, I kind of doubt they made as much money from it as the legal expenses and payout to the relatives of Lisa.

    It’s useless to attempt to take such concerns to law enforcement, but it might make interesting background for fiction.

    • ze moo

      INS and the FBI might be interested. Just to see what the major players are up to now.

      • H. Keith Henson

        INS didn’t do anything with the detailed records Randy gave them. In fact, they threatened to charge him with obstruction of justice if he made them public. INS got swallowed up by Homeland Security. The FBI has been ordered to back off when they were going to raid Gold Base and the “Hole” in the last few years so it is very unlikely they would take an interest.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I am not as sure as you are that the FBI was order to “back off.”

          People who were being interviewed by the FBI stated that they did not know if the people being held in the Hole would leave. willingly.

    • MissCandle

      A money-laundering scheme? hmmm

    • Jenny Daniels

      Nice to see you here, Keith!

    • Sunny Sands

      A quick google search shows that Michael B. Steeves is still an immigration attorney on Court St. in CW.

    • villagedianne

      For newbies, Keith Henson was relentlessly fair-gamed for exposing Scientology in the 90’s-00’s. Links:

      From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Henson#Scientology

      “Henson has become one of the focal points of the ongoing struggle between the Church of Scientology and its critics, often referred to as Scientology versus the Internet. . . . Henson examined these [Scientology] writings, entitled New Era Dianetics (NOTS), and from his examination of these secret documents, claimed that Scientology was committing medical fraud.”

      Fom http://www.cnet.com/news/tom-cruise-missile-jokester-arrested/

      “Henson was convicted in 2001 under a California law (Sec. 422.6) that criminalizes any threat to interfere with someone else’s “free exercise” of religion. One Usenetpost that was introduced at his trial included jokes about sending a “Tom Cruise” missile against a Scientology compound (the actor is a prominent Scientologist). Picketing Scientology buildings and other “odd behavior” were also part of the charges, Deputy District Attorney Robert Schwarz said at the time.”

    • aquaclara

      Wow, I hadn’t heard this before. Thanks for sharing this, but much more to the point, thank you for all you’ve done in this fight. It’s great to see you here.

  • James Morris

    Dunno ’bout anyone else, but I’ve been enjoying a vicarious thrill at watching the FFT monster being visited by the consequences of his hubris and evil karma. Especially his foot bullets and demonstrations of the Streisand Effect.
    Regrettably, though, all this joy is massively tainted by the human misery and personal catastrophes universally suffered by all the people unfortunate enough to have crossed the beam of D(LHD)M.

    Lisa McPherson is a case in point.

    I am all too ready for him to be rendered powerless, impotent, and imprisoned.
    Publicly. And humbled most terribly.
    Far, far too many people are being hurt–right now. Please, please, somebody body check this man STAT!

  • Dave’s counter attack battle plan just got leaked:

    1. Unleash that KFC cable TV thing with all the theta fury
    2. Release OT 9 and 10 (pre-clear and clear redefined correctly)
    3. Buy a new goddam ship
    4. Promote Yager to COB
    5. Secure a cabin in Patagonia
    6. Demote Yager and promote Guillaume The French
    7. Buy Tom a Harley with a nitro engine.
    8. Send Shelly a cookie fortune.
    9. Demote the French and tell Yingling she is in charge.
    10. Review the battle plan.

    • Sid (Phil)

      12. Dave changes his designation from Captain to Colonel as he focuses on ramping up the KFC Studios.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        KFC is quite popular around the world. It might work.

      • 13. Make Lou to make Kirstie quit Twitter.

        • 14. Make someone to donate for Elfman’s Netflix.

          • 15. Tell the lawyer guys to tell the PI’s they are fired for incompetence.
            16. Tell the PI guys to investigate the lawyers, noisily.
            17. See what happens.
            18. Come up with a new IAS Status and OT 11.
            19. Get a cabin in Greece.

            • Frodis73

              the PIs looking into the lawyers, noisily of course, is hilarious.

            • 20. Declare Squirrel Busters and the rest of top OT’s SP’s.

              21. Buy a page in USA Today informing wogs, scientology is SP free now.

          • Sid (Phil)

            Mr. Ed has already volunteered.

    • Jo

      11. Buy Oak Island, make it super secret and ideal.

    • Vaquera

      You’re on a roll, my friend. <3

  • Missionary Kid

    That podium kind of reminds me of the stonehenge stage prop in Spinal Tap.

    • Tree

      Looks to me like they took garbage bags and stapled them together, poorly.

    • aegerprimo
    • Chee Chalker

      David St. Hubbins: I do not, for one, think that the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem *may* have been, that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being *crushed* by a *dwarf*. Alright? That tended to understate the hugeness of the object.
      Ian Faith: I really think you’re just making much too big a thing out of it.
      Derek Smalls: Making a big thing out of it would have been a good idea.

      • Missionary Kid

        Crushed by a dwarf: leaned on by Mousecavige.

  • Nat-leficent

    Anyone see Noseinabk lately?

    • Nosei is around.

    • noseinabk

      Hi Nat. I am unable to keep up at the moment so I am sitting with the lurkers for a bit.

      • Nat-leficent

        🙂

  • Supper Powers

    I need more Surviving Scientology Radio.

    • skiesareblue

      With Nora Crest.

      • Supper Powers

        Predictions for 2016 with Rinder.

    • skiesareblue

      David E. Love

      • Supper Powers

        The follow up with Claire.

        • skiesareblue

          Absolutely, yes. I’ve listened to Claire’s escape story several times. It’s a movie script, as is Marc’s story. Marc’s account of the Tainted Tacos and of course, Musical Chairs.
          Incredible radio.

          • Supper Powers

            It really is. Listening to Claire turned my judgement into empathy for those still in and those who escaped.

      • Supper Powers

        John Brousseau.

      • Supper Powers

        Dodo the Laser! I would like hear him tell his story to JA.

        • I was just out-2D Russian janitor opportunist criminal SP.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I think the ladies want to hear that sexy Russian accent.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Yes, we want to hear him say “moose and squirrel.”

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Like Boris and Natasha? Bwahaha, OK.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Heh heh heh… ; )

          • Supper Powers

            I don’t know what that means, but I’m so glad you’re out and head banging in the free world.

          • villagedianne

            Now you’re our out-2D Russian janitor opportunist criminal SP.

          • Sid (Phil)

            Translation: Super secret vodka drinking top Russian spy with private jet and surrounded by beautiful women driving gadget filled fast cars. “My name is Laser. Dodo the Laser”.

  • Mymy88

    — OFF TOPIC —
    Ewwwww… are you kidding me? This can’t be. Danny Masterson? He’s yuck! And he’s a second generation sicentologist of the foulest mouth kind. He will be co-staring with Ashton Kutcher on a new upcoming Netflix series called ‘The Ranch’. Kirstie may wish him luck but the only luck I could wish him is to prepare his career for the looming shit storm that’s been brewing for a while, because whether he stays in or gets out, it’s going to be rough seas. Oh my, by the time this series debuts, I hope scientology’s reputation isn’t so damaged as to cause Netflix any embarrassment… NOT!

    *The previous sentence is sarcasm up until the word NOT.

    • Frodis73

      I wish people would stop hiring these folks for jobs. If they were in the klan or something similar they would be catching all types of flak…scientology though…crickets.

      • outraged

        This angers me NO end. All these celeb koolaiders are BENEFITTING from the evils of the cult. And they get away with it over and over and over.

        Krusty at least is out there with her support. We ALL know what she believes. But there are so many other slimy creepie celeb scions who pick and choose when to loose their public tidbits of support for the Dark Lord.

        You’re either on the bus or off the bus. It is TIME for all celebrities, or ANY public figure to come clean with their involvement in Scientology. This is an organization that promotes child abuse, child neglect and family divisiveness. Take your cojones in hand Hollywood and stop hiring well known celebrity Scientologists.

        • villagedianne

          “You’re either on the bus or off the bus.”

          A saying from our most polarized decade of the 20th century, the 60’s, comes to mind: You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution.

          • outraged

            Stolen from The Electric Kool-aide Acid Test by Tom Wolfe. I read that line years ago and it stuck in my mind like duct tape. Came from the Magic Bus, get on or get off.

            • Frodis73

              Love that book and I am due for a re-read.

        • Sejanus

          Or in some cases they are under the bus too.

      • Mymy88

        Yeah, I don’t get it either. I guess that’s the problem. There are still too many people in Hollywood that don’t get it, yet anyway. Maybe they never will. Bleh, that’s a depressing thought.

        I’m still hopeful that one day, the name of scientology will be in the history books as one of the most notorious modern day cults. Scientology will be remembered as being unique due to its use of mind ensnaring strategies and techniques for capturing stars as they rise to stardom and fame and even super-stardom all in the name of a galactic warlord named, Xenu, wtf?

    • Hey, may be Ashton and Mila will help their old bud Danny to blow for good. There is always hope.
      Eta: That 70’s show no more.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I guess theoretically I would like to see everyone out for good. But it’s really hard for me to drum up much sympathy for Masterson.

        • Supper Powers

          You can want him out of Scientology but still think he’s a dick human being.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Good point.

            OK, I amend my take on this: c’mon, Danny, blow that cult, you dick.

            • Supper Powers

              Now that was fucking funny.

        • Masterson is fucking on it. Fuck, can you give him a fucking break already? Enjoy some wicked tunes.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Right?! What was I fucking thinking ragging on Danny Fucking Masterson?! My fucking bad.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      This one?

    • Juicer77

      Ashton of the Kabbalah belief? Not sure what to say here…

      • Mymy88

        I didn’t know that… it might be a cult too, who knows?

  • MaxSpaceman

    Sean the Mission Holder

    “… he is very much into helping others to [sic] achieve what he and others in Scientology
    and Dianetics have achieved—

    “which is a spiritual freedom which exceeds anything that Man has ever known.”

    So all the sheeple with their heads in the sand to avoid ‘all that entheta’ that would disturb their realities — although they nearly all have attested to their perfect ‘communicate-with-anyone-on-any-subject’ abilities — all of them believe they have achieved, or are, ‘spiritual freedom.’

    That should be hard for each one of them to believe, one would imagine.

  • outraged

    Unbelievable. Scientology going after a blogger on the Jerusalem Post just because he calls mental illness a disease. Assholes.

    http://www.jpost.com/Blogs/Through-a-Glass-Darkly/Stigma-Part-Two-433083

    The author throws it right back in their face.

    • stanrogers

      Upvote, sure. Outrageous, I’ll grant. Unbelievable? Not nearly, I’m afraid.

      • outraged

        I like that word. Unbelievable.
        Here’s a substitute:

        Disgusting. Scientology goes after another journalist who is just doing their job, trying to help the world while the cult continues to mooch off of everyone.

        Scientology is a black hole. Sucking in energy, giving nothing.

    • Captain MustSavage

      Lisa McPerson might have had bipolar disorder and the Scientology treatment she received killed her.

  • Nobly

    I am moving away from the Clearwater area, and want to see the Lisa McPherson memorial brick before I go. I know it is on Gaslight Alley. Are there any landmarks that will help me locate it? From pictures of the street, it looks daunting.

    • aquaclara

      It’s easy to find the brick now. Do you know where Gaslight Alley is, just off Cleveland street, downtown? It runs from Cleveland Street, just to the east of the. Coachman Building. You’ll see a short brick sidewalk in between the buildings, with some metal park benches there. It opens up to the back of the Coachman building parking lot (their property, by the way). The brick itself is now right in front of the walk, as you enter from Cleveland Street.

      If you need more help finding the alley itself, just post back. So glad you are going!

      • Nobly

        Thank you, Aquaclara. I do not know where the Coachman building is, I’m afraid. I usually just stick to driving Ft. Harrison to and fro each day. Is it to the East or West of Ft. Harrison? I greatly appreciate your help. When Tony came for the TUML tour, I remember that some people walked to it from the library.

  • Speaking of deconstructing E-meter reactions, here is some speculations:
    – Floating Needle/FN – damm, that was weird/interesting? I am glad it’s over.
    – Instant read – WTF was that question/I want to believe?
    – Theta Bop – I am in a cult now. Shit.
    – Rocks slam – Holy fucking shit, I am pissed as hell.
    – Dirty Needle – Number of things. Some uncertainty, some masturbation.
    – Clean Needle – hi!
    More later perhaps.

    • Jimmy3

      Is there really something called a Theta Bop?

      • Supper Powers

        Isn’t it a song by some teen band?
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          You take a time-out right now.

          • Supper Powers

            *hangs head and pouts*

            Okay….

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Don’t make me downvote you.

            • Supper Powers

              Okay….

              *sits with arms folded*

      • Yes.

      • villagedianne
        • Missionary Kid

          I’m sure glad you didn’t post the Pat Boone whitebread version. It sucks.

      • Andrew Robertson

        The Jive Aces have renamed their band. They’re now called Theta Bop and the Rock Slams.

        Andrew

        • Ella Raitch

          If only…

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Courtesy of Milestone II…
        https://youtu.be/ZDNlLuqEerg?t=616

    • Missionary Kid

      Question of the day. Does $cintology have a needle exchange policy?

  • Jimmy3
    • Missionary Kid

      That’s a hell of a lot older than you are. I was about 11 when I first heard it. Now people know it from Beetlejuice.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    If Belafonte is not your Sunday evening style, try this for some pre-bedtime soundtrack:

    https://youtu.be/2DJUN2M3D-E

    • Jimmy3

      I’m done with Belafonte. Now it’s all about that Theta Bop.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I’m not sure which makes me crazier. I’ll stick with strings. The windows are open cause it finally cooled off down here and the mixture of the breeze, the bugs singing and the symphony is lulling me to sleep.

        • Supper Powers

          I could use some of that.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Symphony is over. I’m out y’all. G’night or good morning wherever you are.

    • Jimmy3

      Goodnight, socks by the fire. Goodnight, stars so bright. Goodnight, Moon. Goodnight, Buttplug.

      • Vaquera

        Goodnight nobody.
        Goodnight mush.

        • Jimmy3

          I forget exactly how it goes, so I just make shit up. I’m pretty sure “Goodnight, Buttplug.” is not in there.

          • Vaquera

            Back in the day, it was my son’s favorite book. I’ll ask him and get back to you.
            Oh wait…you guys are the same age. (I crack myself up)

            • Jimmy3

              It’s one of my earliest memories, my mother reading it to me. But I mostly just liked to point to stuff in the pictures and say goodnight to it, even if it wasn’t in the text. So I dunno how it goes.

            • Vaquera

              Yes. You’ve the gist.

            • Missionary Kid

              Geez. I was raised on Bible stories, but at least my kids got Pat the Bunny, Goodnight Moon, Where the Wild things Are and Where The Sidewalk Ends progressively as they got older. They’re in their 40s now. It was an education in Kiddie Lit.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            I think it goes like this. (It’s a scene that makes me chuckle, but it’s also one of the most moving moments in the show.)

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46W2nenbRTo

  • Vaquera

    Feeling sentimental tonight.
    For my bunker friends who are exs and for those still-in lurkers who are on their way out — with love….
    http://youtu.be/gttIc5avsZw

  • A slight touch up of Commodore Caganer:
    ..

  • Jack99

    On the people messageboard elle now claims she never posted on the bunker. I found one of her posts here: http://tonyortega.org/2015/07/15/nick-lister-scientology-asked-me-to-seduce-mike-rinders-wife-in-a-spy-operation/
    It’s almost at the top of the posts. I’m not able to take a screenshot with my computer. Can someone else do it, before she deletes the post?

    • madame duran

      Click on the image to see an enlarged version. Contains date of blog entry she participated in and the words “Underground Bunker” can be seen at the top.

      • Jack99

        Yup, there it is. Proof that elle is a liar. As if there were any doubt. Thanks!

        • Juicer77

          “It wasn’t me! Someone else was using that screen name.”

        • madame duran

          Well…you’re gonna re-post the image as a reply to elle, right? Could you at least give us the link to her denial post and your response?

  • Dave Reams

    (off topic sorry)
    The only thing I don’t like about the Underground bunker (aside of course from its very reason for existence : ) is that it is unreadable on mobile phones because the text size does not automatically scale up for small screens.

    • Missionary Kid

      Is it possible to set a default text size? Someone may be able to help you if it’s possible. Are you looking at things on an iPhone or Android?

      • Dave Reams

        iPhone ??? You think I’m a member of one greedy destructive cult reading about another ?

        • Missionary Kid

          I know some people who are addicted to Apple products… Do you think I should have them read Steve Hassan’s book?

          • Dave Reams

            Let me put it this way: If Dave Miscavige ever tries to use a mobile phone it will be an iPhone. Android phones just aren’t made to take a Miscavige sized beating.

            • Missionary Kid

              *Snickersnort*

    • B4you

      try this direct DISQUS link and click on the latest comments at the top:

      https://disqus.com/home/forum/theundergrondbunker/

  • Margie8

    Sorry, another question! In Marc Headley’s book he refers to “public Scientologists.” Does that just mean non-Sea Org people? Thanks.

    • $cnMonkeyNut$

      Non-sea org and not on staff 🙂

      • Margie8

        Thanks!

    • Draco

      Otherwise know as the Paying Public 🙂

      • Margie8

        Thank you!

  • B4you

    Looks like $cios has infiltrated the FD (F5)

    • anoni81b4u

      Government employees …. SMH

    • Draco

      Helluva moment for a photo-op.

  • Tony Ortega

    New post is going to be a bit late this morning. Please bear with me.

    • OOkpik

      Your posts are always worth the wait. (sniff)

    • Ella Raitch
      • Draco

        Looks like you will be doing the late shift today… That’s the problem when you live on the other side of the planet. Not as bad for me.

        • Ella Raitch

          The trick is to get to read the post and comment a bit without getting too over-excited or angry so as to disrupt sleep. This is easier when the post comes out at 7 my time – harder now that it is an hour later.

    • anoni81b4u

      🙂

      • anoni81b4u

        this one

    • OOkpik

      Sigh…

      • Mockingbird

        Me waiting.

    • Edward Bell

      Cmon its nearly my bedtime

  • Tony Ortega

    New post up

  • dchoiceisalwaysrs

    clambake information is correct. I was just joking around.

  • Ruby Marlowe

    Did McSavage take an interest in Lisa as a pet project to see if they could cure someone heading for a “type 3” instead of waiting for it to happen? I would think that he would see the dollars rolling in faster for it.

  • TrishRan

    I know Miscavige like to refer to himself as the Pope of Scientology, but I can’t picture any of the popes in my lifetime hiding in a confessional telling the priest how to do his job.

  • hahaha Awww Tony. That’s obviously Aladdin. Jafar, then Jasmine, then the Genie.

  • ithilien

    Tom devotch is sexy. Just sayin.

  • califa007

    If Sean Dernehl is the Mission Holder at Ocala, does anyone know what happened to Chris and Iris Baumgardner? They ran the Melrose Mission in Hollywood but closed it in 2009 to go to Ocala to open a mission there. My understanding was that Travolta paid the fees to open the mission because he wanted one close to his home and he had specifically requested the Baumgardners. The Melrose Mission was dying, anyway. Bad location, no parking and no foot traffic, But they had just installed a sauna for the Purif and were otherwise renovating the tiny space, so it was a sudden decision. Just wonder what happened there.