SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

TEN YEARS GONE: Shelly Miscavige, the wife Scientology’s leader wants us to forget

ShellyMiscavige10

 
It was late summer 2005. That much our sources agree on. It might have been late August, or it might have been early September. But it was a full ten years ago, say our eyewitness sources, that Shelly Miscavige vanished.

When we started writing about Shelly and her strange situation, back in 2012, there was some confusion about the timing of her disappearance. But since then we developed new sources who were at Int Base and personally saw the events leading up to Shelly’s sudden departure. And those sources are sure of one thing: It was ten years ago, they tell us.

Ten years ago.

We’ve told Shelly’s story numerous times, and it also got a lengthy treatment in Vanity Fair. Leah Remini caused a stir in 2013 when she tried to get the Los Angeles Police Department to look into Shelly’s whereabouts. (They visited Shelly and reported that she was not only alive but didn’t want to make a public statement.)

The thing is, we know where Shelly has been the last ten years. It’s really not a secret, and we continue to get more evidence that confirms her location. But the astounding thing about Shelly is not that she’s “missing,” because she isn’t. The remarkable thing is that Scientology leader David Miscavige has gotten away with banishing his wife, who once helped to run Scientology with him, to a small compound in the mountains above Los Angeles.

Shelly Miscavige is not missing. David Miscavige has known exactly where she’s been for the last ten years, because he put her there.

And Shelly’s story is not a simple one. We asked numerous people for their memories of Shelly this week, and they weren’t all positive. Shelly was, along with her husband, a tough-as-nails Sea Org executive who wasn’t shy about berating people to get things done. But, as we explained in the 2013 story “Love in the time of Miscavige,” there were signs, in 2005, that her relationship with her husband was unraveling. We’re going to quote a key section from that story for our readers who may not be up on the Shelly Miscavige story.

At the beginning of 2004, Miscavige had ordered dozens of top executives into a locked room, calling them “SPs.” (A “suppressive person” is someone with evil intention to Scientology — being declared an SP is the church’s form of excommunication.)

Over time, that office-prison became known as “The Hole” as up to 100 base executives were held in it day and night, sleeping on the floor and eating from buckets of soupy slop.

Miscavige was becoming less and less predictable. Every Sea Org official walked on eggshells around him, and were hypersensitive to any of his rants, looking for ways to stay in his good graces.

And then, in 2005, a surprising thing happened.

Miscavige announced that he was going to Los Angeles to work on a new set of re-edited L. Ron Hubbard books he wanted published. (They would come out in 2007 and be called “The Basics,” and every Scientologist would be pressured to purchase multiple sets, with lectures, for about $3,000 each.)

Shelly, however, said she was staying at Int Base. And she asked the young woman [an assistant to Shelly] to stay with her.

It was the first time in the young woman’s career that David and Shelly Miscavige hadn’t traveled someplace together.

The young woman did what she was told, and she stayed at the Base.

While Miscavige was gone, Shelly got to work. She filled the org chart with names, and then informed those employees that they had new jobs. [Miscavige had complained bitterly that an “org board” — a personnel chart for the base — had long gone unfinished.]

Finally, the org chart would no longer be an issue.

Miscavige also had continually groused that he was going to need to move out of his quarters in the “Villas” — three buildings on the north side of the property — so they could be renovated and turned over to CMO Int, one of upper management’s alphabet soup of entities. “I’m going to give you the Villas, you assholes,” Miscavige would taunt his top lieutenants.

So while he was gone, Shelly finally made that happen. She had COB’s things crated up and moved out of the Villas to a drab set of quarters known as the “G’s.”

At about this time, Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder arrived at Int Base after visiting Miscavige in Los Angeles. He was immediately cornered by Shelly as soon as he arrived.

“She took me to the back patio of the RTC building, which is really isolated. There was no one around,” Rinder tells us. “She asked me, ‘When you saw him, was Dave wearing his gold or platinum wedding ring?’”

Rinder says he thinks she knew it would have been too much of a giveaway to simply ask if Miscavige was wearing a ring at all, which is why she asked it that way. Rinder had no idea if Miscavige actually had more than one version of his wedding ring.

“Oh, you know, I didn’t notice,” he told her.

“The question was so out of the blue, and so bizarre,” he tells us. “I knew that she was in deep shit. She was worried that he was going to abandon her.”

Rinder wonders if, knowing that she was on thin ice, she was suddenly taking on the things Miscavige always complained needed to be done — the org chart and the renovation of the Villas — as a way of getting into his good graces. Shelly was trying to make things go right for COB.

“That was the last conversation I had with Shelly,” Rinder says. (He was not around when Miscavige returned. He was later put into The Hole as a prisoner for more than a year, and then defected from Scientology while he was in London in 2007.)

By the time Miscavige did return to the base, a couple of months after he’d gone to LA, the org chart had been filled and the Villas were gutted.

He was not pleased.

“He had a total psychotic fit,” one eyewitness tells us. “He said we were a bunch of treasonous fucks.”

A week later, Shelly Miscavige vanished.

 
Shelly_Miscavige

 
Since we wrote that story in 2013, we talked to two new sources who were at the base at the time, who filled us in on a new detail we haven’t seen reported elsewhere. Over the course of that week between Miscavige’s meltdown and Shelly’s disappearance, something telling happened. Our new sources tell us that Miscavige went back to Los Angeles, and then Shelly, apparently knowing she was facing oblivion, took the unusual step of driving from the base to LA to see if she could patch things up with her husband. Apparently, that mission didn’t succeed. And someday, we’d love to know how that scene unfolded.

Shelly soon returned to the base, and then she vanished.

We know now, from multiple lines of evidence, that she was transferred from the International Base near Hemet to a super-secret compound near Lake Arrowhead in the mountains above Los Angeles. The compound is the headquarters for Scientology’s most secretive entity, the Church of Spiritual Technology. We’ve written extensively about CST and its underground vaults, where L. Ron Hubbard’s works are stored so they can survive a nuclear holocaust. For the past ten years — except for a couple of days in the summer of 2007 when she was let out to attend the funeral of her father, Barney Barnett — Shelly has been living and working at CST’s headquarters compound, which Scientologists call by numerous different names, depending on whom you ask: Twin Peaks, Rimforest, Rim of the World, or Crestline.

Whatever you call it, it’s a small complex that houses maybe a dozen people who work on the project to archive Hubbard’s works. Since she was transferred there, Shelly, who once was a major figure in the church and even helped select girlfriends for Tom Cruise, has attended no public church events and has not even been allowed to see her own family. Is Shelly happy working there? Is she being held against her will? Would she take the opportunity to escape if she could?

We reported in 2013 that Shelly does have some limited communication with the outside world, and was asked by a family member how she might be able to leave the base. “There’s only one way,” she responded, and former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder told us he interpreted that to mean that only another family funeral would allow Shelly to go outside the confines of the compound.

That same year, Leah Remini made her missing-person report about Shelly to the LAPD on Monday, August 5. By Thursday afternoon, August 8, police told a reporter that they had checked on Shelly and considered Leah’s report “unfounded.” What happened? Well, LAPD Lt. Andre Dawson sent two of his detectives to meet Shelly. A missing-person report has a very narrow goal — to find out if a person is, well, missing. When Dawson’s detectives found that Shelly was fine and that she didn’t want to make a public statement, the case was over. But we asked Dawson — had his detectives questioned Shelly in the presence of other church executives?

“That’s classified,” Dawson said to us. (Since then, we’ve noticed that Lt. Dawson has been a participant in numerous Church of Scientology activities.)

And that brings us up to date on the disappearance of Shelly Miscavige. We believe that she’s still at the CST headquarters, and she may or may not be resigned to her fate. We’ve been assured by former Scientology executives that David Miscavige put her there after making her a non-person, and that he will never let her leave.

So, ten years after she vanished, we asked some of the people who knew her to send us some of their memories of her.

CLAIRE HEADLEY: It’s hard to imagine the Sea Org without Shelly Miscavige. Some people hated her. And I certainly saw just cause for that at times. Personally, I thought Shelly was quite simply in an impossible situation, as so many of us were at the Int Base. It was a twilight zone, a horrifying dog-eat-dog world where one did as one was told or faced impossible and life-destroying consequences. In the end I have Shelly to thank, in some ways, for helping me wake up. You see, Shelly explained to me on multiple occasions that when you became a member of RTC (the Religious Technology Center, run by Miscavige himself) one has then foregone the right to leave — you’d be hunted to the ends of the earth if you tried to escape. I thoroughly believed her. After all, I’d heard of Sue Gentry being brought back when she blew to Africa! Marty Rathbun blew twice and was brought back both times. No one was capable of escaping RTC’s reach, it seemed to me at the time. So when I was booted out of RTC for refusing to divorce Marc, and Marc then blew just a few months later, Shelly’s words came back to me in my final analysis. And since I was no longer in RTC, I figured I had a fighting chance of actually making it out of there. And that’s all I needed in the end, a firm dose of belief, someone on the outside to help me (Marc), and a purse to sit on in the middle of the Las Vegas bus station when they came after me. Of course there was a bit more to it than that but there you go. I hope Shelly is OK, and that perhaps one day, she too will find the strength of will to get out of there. I know that would make her father, Barney, happy. May he rest in peace.

JEFFERSON HAWKINS: Some people called her the “ice queen” and thought she was pretty cold. I occasionally saw a softer side to her. It seemed at times like she was almost embarrassed by Dave’s excesses, and she would sometimes come around afterwards and try to patch things up or smooth things over. On several occasions after Dave had raked me over the coals verbally or beaten me up physically, she would call me and try to smooth things over and mitigate the damage. She would ask me how I was doing, if I was getting any auditing and so on. She seemed genuinely concerned. I don’t think Dave knew she was doing this. Publicly, she was always 100 percent supportive of Dave. At the same time, I think she had private doubts about his increasingly erratic behavior. And I think she thought the best thing to do to support him would be to try to rein in or mitigate his behavior when she was able to do so. That may have been her downfall.

MARC HEADLEY: Shelly was at the Int Base the entire time I was there. I worked very closely with her sister Clarisse for years, so I heard many stories about them when they were on the Apollo with LRH and growing up as his messengers. I had many interactions with Shelly over the 15 years I worked at the Int Base and on most occasions it seemed she would do David Miscavige’s bidding but with her own twist. There were also times when she pleaded with us to get stuff done so that Dave would not “lose his temper” and get violent with us. There was one conversation Shelly had with me in 1994 that I would never forget. She asked me how old I was and after I answered she told me, “COB was running all of Scientology when he was that age.” It was one of the first personal conversations I had with her. What stuck me is that even when just talking personally, she referred to Dave, her husband, as “COB.” I don’t think she will ever escape his control and it is likely she will die never knowing true freedom.

MARK FISHER: I worked for Shelly for almost seven years and knew her much longer than that. Many of the people who were at the Int Base and had interactions with Shelly will tell you that she was not a very nice person to deal with. She had her moments where she tried to be nice to me and our staff, but you never knew when she might flip on you and tell Dave something which would get you or your staff in trouble. Shelly was very much a loner. She worked with Dave in his office and went with him many times on his motorbike around the base to observe and write down things he wanted done. She would then enter these “orders” into a computer log with an expected due date for these wild actions to be done. If they were not done, there was hell to pay with her. My biggest objection was about staff getting sec checked (interrogated). Reports from these private sessions were forwarded to Shelly, and she would then gladly forward the “juicy” details to Dave who could use them against that person the next time he saw them. Shelly was not well educated at all, never finishing even high school. She was, however, a true believer and she would quote L. Ron Hubbard’s writings to others all the time. Because of her position being the wife of Miscavige, she was protected for many years even before she worked directly for him. She loved being close to DM and his power and being the “Queen of Scientology.” She loved to spend money and if she could get something covered by Church money, she would gladly do it – expensive gifts to celebrities etc. All in all, she was not well liked by the staff at the base and did not have any friends, or if she did, they eventually did not last because they would get into trouble. That being said, if Shelly escaped and came out into the real world, I would give her a big hug and forgive her as I and many did Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun.

KAREN DE LA CARRIERE: Shelly was an unhappy little girl on the Apollo. She was younger than the other Messengers and so they wouldn’t take her along to places in port. Her only role model was L. Ron Hubbard. She was often sullen and withdrawn when I saw her. Years later, at Int Base Shelly was a queen. The staff might have been paid pennies, but if Shelly needed a $5,000 evening gown, she got it. But Shelly was not unfeeling: She actually anticipated her husband’s brutality. She dutifully followed him around as part of his entourage and carried antiseptic, cottons swabs and first aid. When Mark Fisher was hit in the face by Miscavige and his nose was streaming with blood, Shelly was there within seconds to dab the blood because she was already walking around with a first aid kit. In 1985, after Shelly’s mother Flo died under unusual circumstances, I ran into Shelly during a social gathering, a barbecue, at Int Base. I told Shelly how sorry I was that her mother had died. “Good riddance to the bitch,” Shelly snarled at me. But that was Hubbard — we’re just thetans, and family relationships are an illusion. She was just doing what she’d been trained to do. And now, she’s incarcerated and I’m sure she doesn’t know her civil or constitutional rights.

TOM DEVOCHT: I guess I first met her in 1983. I liked Shelly. A lot of people didn’t. She liked my brother and took care of him, in whatever weird way you took care of someone in a cult. I have three really strange anecdotes I can tell you about Shelly. Make of them what you will. One of them happened at Building 50 — the RTC building — that was being constructed at Int Base. I was called over there, and Dave and Shelly were walking through it — Dave did that every day to watch the progress. We were in the legal department of the building and there was a vault being put in. It was where they were going to store the trademarks and copyrights and other things. Dave told Lou (his “personal communicator”) to get some coffee. After she left, it was just Shelly, Dave, and I. Dave got really agitated and said, “Shelly, where do we put the gold? Do we bury it? Do you remember where I put the gold?” It’s like he flipped out for a minute. Then he snapped out of it, and we walked on like nothing happened. But it was really eerie, a really weird thing. We then parted ways, and about a half hour later Shelly called me over. She told me that Dave was going “Type III” — Scientology jargon for someone losing their mind and going psychotic. She wasn’t kidding. Another story: I was married to Jenny Linson, and she worked with Miscavige a lot. At one point, Shelly came into my office, slamming the door. She was in a rage. “You get your bitch whore cunt wife away from my husband!” she yelled at me. “She’s in there hanging her tits in his face and I know she’s trying to seduce him!” I didn’t know what to say. We all worked so closely together all the time. Two days later, I got a call — come up to Building 50. I was walking down the hall and Shelly came walking up to me, crying. “She’s doing it again. She’s hanging her tits in his face!” and she ran past me in tears. Another weird detail: Dave tried to get me to call my wife Jenny “sir” when I was in his presence — in the Sea Org, everyone is a sir, even the women. But I refused. And one more story. Also at Building 50. The last conversation I had with Shelly. She took me into an auditing room to ask me something in private. “Listen, I need to know something from you,” she said. “Can you be salvaged?” This was after the “Hole” had started, after Marty Rathbun had left, and Dave was accusing everyone of betraying him. “Dave has no friends,” Shelly said. “Everybody’s gone. He can’t trust anyone. They’re all SPs. I just need to know, can we trust you? He needs to have friends and you’re his last friend. Can I count on you?” And I said, “No.” I was so disaffected at that point. There wasn’t a chance I wanted to be connected to him. I don’t know if she talked to Miscavige about that. She and I both left about the same time — I left Scientology, and she disappeared. I liked Shelly, I actually liked her. There was a side of her that I thought was really normal. But then she’d start spouting “Simon Bolivar” at you and talking like Hubbard. I felt she just needed someone to talk to, and that’s when we had those conversations.

 

————–

 
We want to thank all of the people who responded to our questions. One of the questions we get the most from readers is about Shelly and her fate. Why, we’re frequently asked, can’t law enforcement rescue Shelly if we’re so confident we know where she is? Well, as these anecdotes indicate, Shelly’s situation is a complex one. She may be resigned to her fate of working to preserve the words of L. Ron Hubbard, whom she regarded so highly. But it sure would be interesting to ask her if that’s really how she wants to spend the rest of her life, cut off even from her own family — and to conduct that interview away from other members of the church. We really don’t know how she’d answer.

After ten years of banishment, is Shelly Miscavige ready to come home?

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
Sept 15: Phoenix, Barrett the Honors College, Arizona State University, ASU in Downtown Phoenix campus, Walter Cronkite Theater, 5:30 pm

Sept 23: Cleveland, Parma Heights Library, 7pm sponsored by Center for Inquiry – Northeast Ohio

Sept 24: Minneapolis, Grumpy’s Bar & Grill, 2801 Snelling Ave, Roseville, 7 pm, sponsored by Minnesota Atheists

Sept 27: Portland, Friendly House, 1737 NW 26th Ave, 12:45 pm, sponsored by Humanists of Portland

Sept 28: Seattle, Razzi’s Pizzeria, 7 pm, with Seattle Skeptics and Seattle Atheists

Sept 29: Vancouver, BC, Seven Dining Lounge, 7 pm

Oct 14: London, premiere of Louis Theroux film, ‘My Scientology Movie’

Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 25: Melbourne, venue secured (announcement coming later)

Oct 28: Adelaide (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on September 7, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X
    Lazy holiday Monday morning to all my Bunker pals.
    Mmm, left over pear crumble.
    Grumble grumble – the damn crows have stolen most of my pears this year – tho’ I suppose even thieves have to make a living.

    Not this lot:
    We take down $cientology bait and switch fraudulent ads.
    Two ways – Flag them (Red-X) and via a complaint to CL
    You will need a throwaway e-mail address to send a complaint.
    It’s easy to do and plays havoc with their ads.
    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are now included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Tick Tock Dave
    We sit on our porch to knock you off your perch
    This bill is just for you.

    • Ella Raitch

      Your lovely toucan pics remind me of this quintessential alt 80’s track by Australian band The Models ‘Two Cabs to the Toucan’

      https://youtu.be/WSFbIQaONwM

  • anoni81b4u

    ‘morninn. Ya’ll

    • DexterSka

      I didn’t know they wear Peewee Herman bowties in the Navy.

  • Jon Hendry

    That top picture….

    Is it possible that she was Jimmy Page all along?

    • Ella Raitch

      I’ve always sensed a Patti Smith vibe from those pictures

    • flexible

      As I have said before.. she looks eerily like Mary Sue. Hair, shoulder pads, dark

    • Jon Hendry

      See?

  • Libertylover

    David could have cloned a more compliant Shelly. He’s obviously lazy. I don’t buy his excuse that he’s too busy.

  • Snake Plissken

    It has been ten years since the wife of The Scientology Crime Syndicate’s Crime Boss Davis Miscaivge has gone missing, some believe she is the key to finding Jimmy Hoffa.

  • Observer

    If Captain Miscavige was going Type III 10 years ago, imagine where he is now.

    • anoni81b4u

      type 47X ?

    • Ella Raitch

      Is it a linear scale or exponential, do you think?

    • DexterSka

      That’s the one where you see the Martians right?

    • arcinva

      That’s actually a really good question. I mean, the question about the gold does make it sound like he was losing it. However, if he was and without treatment (which he, of course, wouldn’t get), I can’t imagine how he hasn’t gone completely off the rails. Sure, he’s not a mentally healthy individual but we haven’t seen any signs that he’s devolved so far into paranoia that he’s had a bunker constructed at Gold that he refuses to leave nor is he shuffling around unkempt babbling to himself. Which makes me wonder if the little gold rant wasn’t completely, methodically, made up and acted out to keep people off balance and afraid because I thoroughly believe the midget is a sociopath.

      • Observer

        I wouldn’t put anything past him.

  • Ella Raitch

    Where there’s life there’s hope – for Shelly and Heber

    • Snake Plissken

      Unfortunately I think they both got Scientology to work like L Ron Hubbard intended it to and are no longer shackled by the confines of sanity … they went OT.

      • Ella Raitch

        Yeah – I’m not holding my breath

    • flexible

      Yes Ella..

  • Observer

    If your ecclesiastical leader’s wife habitually carries a first-aid kit to patch up his victims on the spot, it may be time to rethink your involvement in the organization.

    • MaxSpaceman

      The ecclesiastical leader of the Cherch.

      The wife of the Pope of $cientology: “… she was already walking around with a first aid kit.” [to dress the wounds of people Captain Pope Dave was “advising”.

      Oh, there is a deep spirituality running throughout Sciloonacy.

      • anoni81b4u

        L Ron Hubbard even started a tomato healing center (THC)for injured fruit.
        What a swell guy.

        • El Con Blubbard

          and the tomato was never seen after that auditing session…and L ron had tomato juice dripping down his chin….

          shudder…..

          • Lighthouse

            Lol! Oh, goodness. You should write a book. It would sell, I’m telling you.

        • ScreamingTomato

          Right. I’ll (v)ouch for that.

      • Annie

        David Miscavige: Hands-on…a true modern church leader, eliminating the need for archaic religious practices such as SELF-flagellation.

        • emag

          LOL! You know seeing and reading about these freaks you cant help laughing.

      • emag

        I watched Leah Remini last might on 20/20. Good for her. its about time someone tells the way it is. I am always wondering why are you people staying in this cult and take these indignities when being punished by these control freaks.
        And if Shelly Miscavige lets her husband “put her somewhere” hey, then she is just as crazy as he is. Interesting that they are against help from psychiatrists and help with drugs because they sure could use some of both.
        They are a bunch of weirdos, seeing Cruise and Travolta salute each other sharply and so seriously with their heavy medals hanging around their neck, is really hilarious. I don’t know what of who in their Fantasy Life they think they are, but It cracked me up.

      • emag

        Anyone who joins this cult is a nutcase themselves.
        The guy in charge, Mc (something) is a psycho and still people are there.
        It just goes to show you, a sucker born every minute.
        Be sure you suckers buy all the required new editions of Hubbard for $3.000. LOLOLOL!

        • MaxSpaceman

          emag’s kind of nutty in a rash sort of way

    • LongtimeLurker

      “Scientology; this is going to hurt a lot, but we’ll give you an aspirin after. Visit your local Org today!”

      • Mockingbird

        After an ecclesiastical beating.

        • Bleuler

          The ecclesiastical beatings while continue until are orgs are ideal!

          • Mockingbird

            Um……..

      • pluvo

        No aspirin. No medical drugs for the rank and file. What ever happens to them, they ‘pulled it in’ because of their ‘crimes’.

    • Observer ~
      I am glad you punched this up. How extraordinary that Shelly was already anticipating bloody noses, bleeding ears, (Sea Org members who would be the recipient of assault and battery) and walk around with a first aid kid to touch up the recent bruise. In the never-never land of Scientology, all this was and is considered “normal.” Of course a beating a day is just normal activity in that Cuckoo’s nest better known as the Gold Base or Int Base ~ the management hierarchy of Scientology Inc.
      A Madhouse while pretending superior elite and enlightened spirituality.
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL97bG9F7T-UfbWG17flpaFJg8pUw75W89

      • daisy

        3 mvps in one day!!! Sorry Karen didn’t see you down. Thank-you for all you do.

      • bbbbitca

        This AC special never, ever gets old – thanks!

      • aquaclara

        Hi, Karen, just sent a note to Jeffrey, too. Posting in an old post for a question from The Hole Does Not Exist. She’s like to ask you a question- is there a way she can reach you? Much thanks. Aquaclara.

    • J. Swift

      If your ecclesiastical leader’s wife habitually carries a first aid kit
      to patch up his victims on the spot, it may be time to rethink your
      involvement in the organization.

      The Scientology Emergency Ecclesiastical First Aid Kit: For those times when touch assists are not enough.

      http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/First%20Aid%20Kit_zps5urqfuiu.png

      • Where and how much?

        Also wondering if you could connect me with a source to purchase a child size Body Thetan Protectin Suit?

        I need three (two for my twin nephews and one to send Captain Miscavige).

      • Lighthouse

        Lol! This is so funny.

      • aquaclara

        J, hi, posting in a prior post for a message. The Hole Does Not Exist is a friend of mine, and she asked me if you or Karen have an email address she can reach you on, for a question. I’ll send a note to Karen, too. Much thanks, Aquaclara.

      • H. Davis

        Haha

    • jazzlover

      That’s exactly what I was thinking. It has a “trainer in a boxiing ring” feel to it.

    • chukicita

      Unless she’s traveling with Doctors Without Borders.

  • Jill Barras

    The fact that Scientology exists and can get away with this shit ( or seems to have total legal immunity from the criminal justice system) lend credence to many of the conspiracy theories flouting around.

    It’s hard to believe that these closed worlds exist and are functioning and performing the most horrible human abuses on a daily basis and getting away wit it.

    How can this bizarre organization continue to exist? I suppose money will always have the have the final world.

  • DexterSka

    I keep hearing them call it Twin Peaks, but the compound is closer to Crestline. I used to ride the school bus past it every morning. I always wondered what it was. Every body said it was a cult. I assumed they were doing witchcraft and sacrificing local pets. My Scientologist aunt later revealed that it was a secret Vault in case of the apocalypse. I took that to mean L Ron Hubbard’s head was frozen in the basement along with Walt Disney and Adolf Hitler.

    • Mockingbird

      Scientilogy is far more evil than that image.

      • DexterSka

        I suppose, but the shroud of mystery they cloak everything in does not help their PR.

    • dungeon master

      Now I wonder if LRH investigated cryonics and they secretly froze his head til tech can build him a new body.. Cue twilight zone theme

      • Robert Eckert

        They only froze the cyst, which contains his slimy essence.

      • DexterSka

        If LRH investigated it, they wouldn’t even be able to get his head into the jar.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I read that anecdote differently: that Shelly will only leave the base for her own funeral. But that might be because we have a common expression in the UK which says “I’m only getting out of here in a coffin”.

    • Tony Ortega

      I think even Rinder was implying that “family funeral” might include her own.

      • joan nieman

        Very sad. All those wasted years in support of a madman.

        • Observingsandiego

          I think that’s the only way out for either of them, he won’t ever give up the power he has, no one inside the church seems to be able to make any changes from within, he won’t ever let her leave (and she’s been brainwashed her entire life). They are there to the bitter end, hopefully taking the cult out of existence with them.

          edit : unless he starts amassing weapons, then maybe the government will step in and arrest him. That would be nice.

    • flexible

      Yes I read it that way also Andrea

    • Annie

      I agree. But the fact is, we, and Tony, don’t know Shelly or her mental state well enough to really interpret her. Tony’s research is impeccable, but there are many many unanswered questions. Which makes it a fascinating story.

      Anyway, she could mean “out” out, like last time, for a family funeral. She could mean “out” only for her own. Or she could me out if and when COB deems it time. Or maybe she means only in her dreams.

    • Jill Barras

      This is the same expressive in the U.S.
      Happy to meet you and I like your posts Andrea; they are very funny.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        We might say it when we’re stuck in a boring job, or the queue for the theatre is really long. It’s also lovely to meet you, Jill 🙂

    • LongtimeLurker

      When I read that, it occurred to me that I have a problem with, well LAPD Lt. Andre Dawson, obviously, but also …

      …whoever is taking a weekly wage (of pennies I suppose) knowing that one of their jobs, one day, might be to raise their hand as Shelly walks forlornly towards him or her and say “You know you’re not allowed to leave, Shelly.”

      I realize it’s not as clear cut as that, but still…

      • daisy

        Hey LL – Tony says we can goof off, up thread.

    • BraveBloggers

      Yes, I perceived it one of two ways…as you describe it OR only when a certain person/authority allows it.

    • Draco

      I took it that way too.

    • Have that saying in Canada too, and it has the same meaning. Which is why I think we need to get her out. Now.

      Since I’m disabled, I’ll be precisely aero help. But this needs doing.

      • daisy

        What saying do we have in Canada??

    • FOTF2012

      That was my first thought too.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      There is a cruder version that ends “in a box.” And that’s the way I have always interpreted that statement from Shelley. She has made her choice, and she will live with it the rest of her life.

  • flexible

    I remember Shelly from my days on the Apollo. Seldom smiled, sweet little gal with more blonde than brown hair. Quite sullen.. not happy. Holding the old man’s ash tray for him. So young. I hope she wakes up too.. but she’s been immersed for the majority of her life and has really known nothing else.

    • Snake Plissken

      David Miscavige worked her over good, he probably has her convinced that she’s responsible for everything that has ever gone wrong in this world. If he put Leah Remini through weeks of the ‘Truth Rundown’, can you imagine what Shelly has been subjected to? She probably endured it for a few years nonstop up at Lake Arrowhead

    • Mary

      It’s SOUL CRUSHING to be abandoned by your parents at such a young age.

    • Ah, but the human mind is capable of bouncing back. All it requires is support from people who know what it is like.

      Not easy, no. But while I’ve never met Shelly, I gather that she has a pretty strong personality of her own, and if we got John Atack to talk to her…

  • Jill Barras

    This has to be one of the most beautiful scams perpetrated on the ordinary people of the worlds and they the seem to be getting sway with it. Sure numbers are dragging, but the money keeps on rolling in.

    • Annie

      Beautiful? You mean successful? Well organized? Those of us who have lost friends and family to the scam may not find it so beautiful.

      • Jill Barras

        Beautiful has many meaning and in this case, it neans: well put together so it is beautiful. How man scam shave been around for 65 years?

        • Draco

          Mormons, JWs…

  • LongtimeLurker

    Wow what a finish, with the statements from Claire, Jefferson, Marc et al.

    Very powerful Tony.

  • DexterSka

    I can’t believe she called him a type 3 PTS, that’s the one that sees the Martians right? Fun fact L Ron Hubbard also could have been described as Type 3. He even had people standing on the roof of PAC Base looking for flying saucers that were after him. If we’re imitating Hubbard we’ll all go type 3.

    • Annie

      As far as I understand from what I’ve read and heard from former members, by at least the last decade of his life, Hubbard was out of his mind, gone, certifiable…a paranoid, delusional mess.

      • DexterSka

        I think Type 3 PTS is one of many examples of LRH projecting himself onto other people

  • randomity

    Miscavige has buried gold… seriously?

    • Annie

      Or was planning to. Now we need a shoop of him with a parrot and an eyepatch. 🙂

    • MaxSpaceman

      It’s easy to imagine El Ron El Rey hisself, when he was minting money (from mid-50s, 60s, 70s, 80s), bought gold bars, Krugerrand, et al. There were so many times when “the big scare” hit the public mentality, the collapse of currency etc., which drove people to buying gold. It’s more likely than not that $cientology (Dave) has a horde of gold somewhere, yes- seriously.

      • LongtimeLurker

        “…Scott Mayer at the Clearwater Hearings in 1982…in his last mission with the church, he said, he and his wife smuggled $200,000 in Krugerrands into the country from South America.”

        “…You should have seen the old man’s eyes light up when Mike [Douglas, Kima’s husband] showed up with a handful of diamonds which Hubbard had directed him to purchase. Boy, Hubbard was almost as excited as when he saw the bag so filled with Krugerrands he could hardly lift it. Nothing like good old material goods to make a man salivate… get those old spiritual juices flowing…”

        Lerma and EXSMB

    • LongtimeLurker

      If it’s crazy and/or it’s something other current religious leaders don’t do and/or it’s obvious it’s a bad idea and/or it seems like it might be a snarky joke…

      …it’s almost certainly true.

  • Jill Barras

    The church, referring to DM as it’s ecclesiastical leader’s is out of science fiction.
    He’s is not more an ecclesiastical as I am. He is more a fanatical controlling narcissistic little sociopath with a napoleon complex. I’m afraid that when and if Scientology really falls, DM will pull out the magic cool-aid, everyone will drink and die, except for the little bastard. He’ll sneak away or buy his freedom with his immense wealth.
    He needs to be stopped, is anything happening to do this. I don’t mean on the Bunker level, but on the governmental level. How does the U.S. government allow him to continuous crusade of bettering the planet, especially when others in other countries might see it as backed by the U.S. and supporting it.

    The government has put a stop for a lot less.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Despite the stories about how some people didn’t like Shelly, or had tales of when she was very hard/tough, I wonder if she would have had any chance to be any other way in her situation. I’m heartened to see so many people that knew her actually say they liked her… the stories tell of a very lonely, desperate and confused lady. I hope she does one day walk with true freedom.
    I’d love to know Leah Remini’s opinion of her – she once identified her as a ‘friend’ if I recall correctly.
    Thanks for the recollections by everyone who took the time to respond to Tony. It’s hard to believe Miscavige has gotten away with this now for TEN years!

  • After ten years of banishment, is Shelly Miscavige ready to come home?

    Has she ever really had one? Part of the problem is, surely, that she has only ever lived in the closed world of Scientology and has no idea of what most of us understand as a home.

    A very powerful piece that goes to the heart of the problem of institutionalised Scientologists. Even if they left, where could they go, and how would they cope?

    • MostEthicalPimp

      nail on the head. This is a huge problem for people who’ve been SO since 12. I know that even if they have the will to leave. They might be too scared to come out and figure out the real world, Simply Fear of the unknown. And the SO plays on these fears everyday to keep them in. I’d say to them if you’re willing to put up with hard work and shit taking required to be an SO with little compensation. You’ll have no trouble finding a job.

      • People like Shelley may not have been Saints – but they are certainly more sinned against than sinning. When your education consists of following L Ron Hubbard about with an ashtray, I think it is remarkable that she has apparently retained the ability for occasional kindness.

        Much of the responsibility for her actions lies with the insane situation that she grew up in.

        I just hope today’s Sea Org recruits managed to acquire more experience of the real world before they were isolated from it, and this will make it easier for them to return to it.

      • arcinva

        ^THIS

        People that were in the Sea Org would be any manager’s dream. They’ll work what we consider long, hard hours without complaint because, to them, it’ll be a cakewalk of light work and relatively short hours.

        For example, I know I’d be dog tired and complaining if I had to work 50 hours a week for more than a week. For them, that’s part-time! Not to mention, the pay would be awesome for them even if we deemed it to be fairly crappy.

    • Draco

      As far as Shelly is concerned, I am pretty sure Leah Remini would take her under her wing. But you are right – institutionalised scientologists will have great difficulty if it all came crashing down and they had to leave,

      • Leah, Karen, Claire, there’s a huge number of women that Shelly knows who’ve left. All of them would be able to make her feel far more at ease.

        And of course we’d get John Atack to have his famous deprogrammimg talk with her.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Do the police in the States have to publish lists of gifts received in the line of duty? Ours have to report every little thing, and you’ll see things like “basket of fairy cakes from Mrs Brady to say thank you for rescuing cat”. I’d love to see Lt Dawson’s.

    • chukicita

      I’d really like to see that here in the US.
      And I’d like to know what a ‘fairy cake’ is.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Really small cakes with the middle scooped out, cut in half, inverted and stuck back on the cake with butter icing like little wings 🙂

        • Graham

          Prefer Eccles cakes myself.

          • Libertylover

            I miss those Eccles cakes! Made me think of Ecky Thump and the Goodies, which has nothing to do with Eccles cakes. Hmm I think I’m homesick.

            • Ah… the mystical art of beating people senseless with a black pudding, presided over by the Grand Master Ecky Thump (who wore an enormous flat ‘at). I still remember that one.

    • Jill Barras

      They are not allowed to accept gifts, but they do anyway.

    • BraveBloggers

      We have ethical limitations. For example we should not accept the free coffee or 50% off that establishments offer officers, EMS or FD personnel. Many do though. Then there is an alternate category where not accepting the gift would cause a political issue. Example: We did a mission with some very important foreign national high persons. They gave some extremely expensive trinkets as a show of respect and thanks which is traditional in their culture. Had they been denied it would have been a reflection of the disrespect of the U.S. Forms had to be filled out and the gifts were allowed to be kept, however the State Department (in cases of diplomatic relations etc.,) do let these countries leadership details know what is and isn’t acceptable – like cash, property etc. that is why when it happens it’s usually a gold inlaid pillbox, a pricey pen etc., and is always looked at and documented.

      But some take advantage and don’t do the right thing. And many don’t in my experience.

      ETA: we’re not supposed to accept cookies from Ms. X etc., as who knows what’s in the cookies along with the ethical issues, but it does depend on who Mrs. X is. If that makes sense? Likely an officer wouldn’t turn down cookies from the Senator’s spouse as thanks, but they may not eat them. It would be reported and they may go in the garbage or they may eat them.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Thanks, that’s really interesting. I’ve had a look at the Metropolitan Police’s policy document covering “Gifts and Hospitality” and it says that gifts must be refused unless that refusal would cause serious offence or damage working relationships, in which case the gift can be accepted then donated to a charity chosen by the Met.

        Every gift must be entered, within 5 days of receipt, into the Gifts & Hospitality Register. Gifts with a value in excess of £25 will be sold and donated to charity. The fate of gifts of a lesser value is decided upon by the Association of Chief Police Officers but I bet our strict Health & Safety rules don’t allow officers to eat Mrs Brady’s fairy cakes.

        • BraveBloggers

          Lol. I’ve never received a fairy cake, but I have received some, eh…inedible, but well meaning baked goods from officials who you can’t turn down. At the holidays is when they come the most. People generally feel bad that said public service person can’t be with their family so they take time and bring some leftovers, fresh made goods or hot coffee etc., to be kind and thankful. I’ve also witnessed an incident where a brand new officer, fresh from academy, did the by the book turn down on some special made holiday cookies in the shape of badges and stuff (very thoughtful and kind and from a very high ranking spouse where poisoning was EXTREMELY unlikely) which likely took a lot of time and from very good intentions. It resulted in a fiasco you couldn’t imagine. The spouses spouse (who knows the rules) blew up and then delivered the goods themselves. After that point there were “tense” relations from the baker, and the officer in question (who did the by the book right thing) was yelled at. Double edged sword much? Needless to say we have certain people who we always welcome food from now. If that food is actually consumed…I shan’t say.

          ETA: my stepmom is a retired postal worker and she was not allowed to receive gifts in excess of 10$ U.S. Another common practice at the holidays. Tip your postman. Very strict federal rules, buss with anything some follow some don’t.

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Poor guy! It did make me smile, though 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        You’re a LEO?

        My god this place is cool.

        • BraveBloggers

          I am a former assistant chief of police for a federal organization. I now have a higher responsibilities within that federal organization and I’ll leave it at that. 😉

          • arcinva

            Do small town local police suffer the same strict rules on things like getting a discount at a restaurant for local PD/FD/EMS or Mrs. Brady’s cookies? I’m in a town of about 20k people so I can’t imagine they’d be quite so strict.

            • BraveBloggers

              Well, I can’t speak for each jurisdiction/state, but I think it’s very accurate to say there are almost always ethical precepts and policies on what is or isn’t allowable. That being said, making an educated, very general, guess the smaller the town is I’d imagine there is a little more give for the discount rules etc. However, a strict Sheriff or Chief may have more stringent standard expectations. Or, may be more accepting of what is generally an attempt to honor or make allowances for those on the job. Many times you may be eating and get called off thus ending your meal as there aren’t scheduled meal breaks for the most part. Coffee is generally for 1st or 3rd shift officers to assist with staying awake, alertness (and from a business owner’s stance, bringing visibility of police in their establishments after hours when there’s a higher threat possibility …from the public standpoint, generally speaking. Please know all my statements are generalized and make no assertions on behalf of any agency, just my experience and years of observations.

              Factualy speaking – The point behind not accepting these things is to avoid placing an officer or person offering the “perk” in a position of feeling beholden to the offering party, thus potentially impacting their ability to perform their duties unencumbered by influence. It also protects the officer from accusations of bribery, favoritism, undue influence as well as many other things.

              There is also the issue of why a PO, EMS or FD worker are allowed things other professionals are not. While many of the small perks are clearly well intentioned, for the most part, they do/can bring up potential issues which run at fundamental odds with

          • LongtimeLurker

            Holy cow.

            I feel like I should salute or something.

            And I’m not even a US citizen.

            • BraveBloggers

              Lol. Umm, nope. Just a job to pay the bills lIke everyone else . Let’s save saluting to clinking glasses together in celebration of good times, good people and great futures. /clinks a glass – Salut!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Salut!

          • MotherOfDragons

            BraveBlogger, I’m glad you’re here. I heard thru a long time veteran Scientologist ( now ‘out ) that they knew of personally, – an IRS Agent ( now retired ) who was paid ‘under the table’ to watch out for the best interests of COB & COS from within the IRS. They supposedly have a specific code # to attach to every complaint or any info that comes in re: Scientology and these complaints are automatically routed to a special place where no one will read them. Because of that specially created ‘code’ everything even mentioning Scientology is sent directly to some dead file where they deliberately go no where. Allegedly there are current IRS Agents being paid funds under the table internally so that anything about Scientology never sees the light of day and guaranteeing nothing gets done and they keep their tax exempt status.

            If this is true it would explain a lot as to why nothing has been done. And if it’s true…something needs to be done about it.

            • BraveBloggers

              I’m not sure how to respond to this — or if a response if anticipated. With that said, I know nothing about this situation you’ve related. Im not saying it’s impossible ( as Most anything is possible — but whether it’s probable or not is a different thing IMO). With the likely tracking systems etc., redundancy in computer system programs, processing files built into whatever equipment is utilized combined with the likely number of personnel who have various roles in processing complaints, reports or what have you- it seems unlikely that complaints would continuously, successfully and without any valid complaints slipping through the cracks, be routed to a “do not investigate or other similar” type of file without a great deal of complicity and a degree of continued coordination. (Imagine what it would take to sustain that with even a mere alteration in upgrading an operating system or other types of computer technology that is used and often upgraded or replaced for increased efficiency or economy.)

              I suppose anything is possible, but I don’t know…this Sounds like it would be a very large alleged cover-up operation that would likely leave a lot of computer forensic evidence to tie back to a person or persons if they were, in fact, bribed to make this happen or ensure it continued happening. Even after all I just said — I really have no clue to be clear, and I speak on behalf of no organization or entity. I’m just thinking about some aspects that would likely be traceable and seem common sense obstacles in my personal, not professional, view.

              My standing advice to anyone on ANY subject of ANY illegal acts (such as areas of alleged corrupt officials or the alleged obstruction of justice as examples) is to report allegations to the appropriate authorities. Something may or may not come of it, but a complaint would likely generate some measure of documentation (which may assist at a later date if nothing comes of an initial complaint.)

              I sure hope what you heard / someone alleged isn’t the case.

            • daisy

              I am sorry I wasn’t at this thread yesterday,I missed good information, Steve Hassan left us again , yesterday, with the manner in which Shelley should be questioned. How can we, as a community ensure that would happen ? Most of us live far away. petitions , phone calls .We need advice and good practical advice. See his advice upthread. Than-you If you gave already given your answer, I am going through old posts to find it. I am sorry if this question is redundant

            • BraveBloggers

              Daisy,

              I’m afraid I’m not familiar with what you are writing about. I’d have to go back and read what was written. Even doing that, im not sure I would be of help in the regard you referenced unless I’m perceiving your comment incorrectly.

              I suppose I need to read his comment first, to be sure, but in terms of questioning those who have departed CoS/petitions etc., I’m not remotely a subject matter expert — just gave my 2 cents on common knowledge re: reporting a crime if one believes a crime has taken place. Again, I could be off base in my response to you here based on not reading the comment you mentioned. I’ll see if I can find it, then reply back to you. It might not be until tomorrow, but I will follow up.

              Have a great evening. BB 🙂

            • daisy

              Please do not go to anymore trouble than you already have. I was speaking to your former experience as a former assistant Chief of Police for a Federal Organizations. We know as a community, abused people, cult people need to be questioned in a precise way. Steve Hassan, has that recipe. My question was, how can we do that How can we get police to handle her in the way described. If these police are ( I have no idea ) influenced., by the church.Do you have any insight as to how we can make them? It seems unhopeful, as she of course, has no bruises, eyewitness testimony etc. and her assertion that she doesn’t want to leave. I do know that the laws are changing. Police can now file charges even without the victims consent. I just wanted your expert opinion if you have one. Please don’t feel you need to answer me, like others I am frustrated. We seem to know the problem, we hash it out everyday here. I want a solution, but I am only one of thousands Thank you for taking the time to answer my E-mal I really do appreciate it

  • Richard

    Here’s my version of what I thnk happened to Shelly.

    Ten years ago, Shelly threatened Dave that she would blow.

    This, of course, would have been the worst possible scenario for Dave and Scientology and so Dave “locked her up” in CST. However, Dave knew that she might escape at any time, so he used the most powerful tool known to to him to change her mind. Yes, he used Scientology. Dave knew that if Shelly got daily auditing and training on a special programme, it would eventually brain wash her to believe anything he wanted her to believe.

    And, I think, that is what is still happening even now, after ten years. Shelly is completely gone. Her mind is that of a totally brain washed Scientologist, and if anyone did come to see her, she would probably smile at them and say “Scientology is my life and I couldn’t be happier.”

    Poor, poor lady.

    • LongtimeLurker

      You know Richard, if you’re right, after 10 solid years it’s probable that Shelly is the most audited/brainwashed victim of Scientology in its entire history.

      That’s an awful thing to contemplate.

    • Annie

      I agree she was absolutely indoctrinated and brainwashed, but from what I know of her, she was a true believer before she even met Dave. As an original Hubbard Messenger, she waited on Hubbard hand and foot, idealized him, listened to his stories, policed and wrote up her friends, etc. Of course I don’t know the “behind closed doors” conversations in the Miscavige marriage, but she certainly was, and may very well still be, an exceptionally dedicated Scientologist.

      This does not, however, make her less pitiable and deserving of sympathy and compassion in my opinion.

    • Snake Plissken

      To say that David Miscavige is mentally unstable would be a gross understatement, he is so delusionally paranoid that the thought of leaving wouldn’t have even needed to cross Shelly mind for David Miscavige to believe that she was planning an escape.

      And we all know that if she leave and talked, it would be the end of David Miscarriage, this is a man that pays thugs $10,000 a week to stalk his father, could you image what he would do if his wife escaped?

      • LongtimeLurker

        To say that David Miscavige is mentally unstable is also vaguely insulting to those of us who are actually mentally unstable.

        I mean, he crazy!

    • PlanetJ

      I feel so sorry for her..even though I’ve heard she’s done shady shit,in the name of her cult..but I still feel bad for the downtrodden..especially the brainwashed.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Sometimes I can’t happy but relate the entire world to one Monte Python skit or another. My apologize to those for who were caught up in the cruelty. This is Doug and Dinsdale Piraña on Ethel the Frog.

    Interviewer(off-screen) He nailed your head to the floor?

    Vince: At first, yeah

    Cut to presenter. Presenter: Another man who had his head nailed to the floor was Stig O’ Tracey.

    Cut to another younger more cheerful man on sofa. Interviewer: Stig, I’ve been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.

    Stig: No, no. Never, never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to give his mother flowers and that. He was like a brother to me.

    Interviewer: But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.

    Stig: Oh yeah, well – he did that, yeah.

    Interviewer: Why?

    Stig: Well he had to, didn’t he? I mean, be fair, there was nothing else he could do. I mean, I had transgressed the unwritten law.

    Interviewer: What had you done?

    Stig: Er… Well he never told me that. But he gave me his word that it was the case, and that’s good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn’t want to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off. There’s nothing Dinsdale wouldn’t do for you.

    Interviewer: And you don’t bear him any grudge?

    Stig: grudge! Old Dinsy? He was a real darling.

    Interviewer: I understand he also nailed your wife’s head to a coffee table. Isn’t that right Mrs O’ Tracey? Camera pans to show woman with coffee table nailed to head.

    Mrs O’ Tracey: Oh, no. No. No. StigYeah, well, he did do that. Yeah, yeah. He was a cruel man, but fair

    • Rasha

      …but he knew how to treat a female impersonator… Just wait ’til Spiny Norman catches up with him… Muahahahaha…..

    • Libertylover

      Perfect, you nailed it! Pythons were quite brilliant weren’t they? I always liked their Hitler in England skit for its dry satire.

    • GrandEclectus

      https://twitter.com/ericidle/status/640175388942041088

      Eric Idle pointed out that John Alex Wood and his ilk do not even understand Python, and Scientology is the complete opposite of what Python stands for. Brilliant!

      • Draco

        Loving Eric Idle more every day.

        • GrandEclectus

          IKR! They keep attacking him, he keeps slamming them. He RT’d Jeffrey Augustine’s chart (as seen here at the Bunker) when we were comparing Scientology to Brazil.

          He’s also exposed SallyWestern who we believe is an OSA person. She denies she’s a Scientologist, but her actions and words scream SCIENTOLOGY. She’s a nutcase, in any case. Any real PR professional does not carry on like that online!

          Anyway, Eric Idle FTW. I epxect the thought they would convert the Pythons, or Cleese’s daughter. Gross! Creepy Scientologists.

          • Draco

            Very creepy. I checked out their Facebook pages (JAW and girlfriend) and it has Monty Python stuff everywhere!

            • GrandEclectus

              JAW uses his “#1 Fan” fake title to send press releases to an east grinstead blog. He had this weird article about a Mission a impossible line “it’s just a flesh wound.” Convoluted connection, but oh, it just so happens that Cruise is a MAJOR Scientologist. Coincidence only, right?

              He has liked church of Scientology, and it displays it on one of his fan pages. Oh, but they don’t use these pages to promote Scientology. No, me and Eric are just big meanies. Too silly!

              All kinds of nutty people are fans. Not many pull this kinds of stunt. They don’t have a mandate to convert people to an extremely dangerous cult that could destroy lives.

              Oh, they tweeted they’re still big fans, even though he’s a bad person. Does that make any sense?

      • LongtimeLurker

        JAW and Sally “the lady doth protest too much, methinks” Western are as nasty and dumb as a sackful of poo-hammers.

        That girl needs a long lie-down. She is so obviously really unhappy with 90% of her life and instead of fixing any of that, she focuses on one, easily compartmentalized thing to take her rage out on*.

        It’s what children do. Grow up Sally, you nitwit.

        *I am not an internet psychiatrist.

        • GrandEclectus

          Yes, they are very OCD, angry and childlike. The take away is seeing how badly Scientologists behave.

          And predictable.

          Sally’s complaint letter to Media Lush’s ISP IS STRAIGHT out of the OSA handbook.
          1. Threaten a lawsuit over a minor thing (that they invoked)
          2. Play the victim
          3. Attempt to dead agent with a false accusation. (He takes drugs!)
          4. Say “it’s all lies”
          5. Deny she’s a Scientologist– she’s just “sticking up for a friend.”
          6. Claim to be something else she’s not…if she’s legit in PR, she’s not going to be for long. Internet fights with people, including Eric Idle. !!!

          He mainly posted her exact words. Maybe that’s the lie parts.

          • LongtimeLurker

            She sucks. Truly.

      • GrandEclectus

        https://twitter.com/betsy_manning/status/640873655841501184

        *thud*

        Wow, Eric Idle is NOT joking about JAW.

        Idle really knows the score. He’s RT’d this, and some other stuff, slamming his fan wannabe.

        Hope he’ll join you all in London at Theroux’s opening.

  • pluvo

    So many persons vanished from the history of the Church of Scientology. More than a few of them were working in high positions and many were dedicated members for years and decades.

    As in Orwell’s “1984”:
    “Winston works at the Ministry of Truth, or “Minitrue”, as an editor responsible for historical revisionism. He rewrites records and alters photographs to conform to the state’s ever-changing version of the truth, rendering the deleted people “unpersons”; the original documents are incinerated in a “memory hole”. Winston becomes fascinated by the true past and tries to learn more about it.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

    On the exscn.forum.net: Thread: George Orwells 1984 and Scientology – a comparison http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?19525-George-Orwells-1984-and-Scientology-a-comparison

    “6.Unperson
    “In „1984“ a person accused of thoughtcrime simply dissapears. His name just vanishes and one talks about him. Sometimes people are being made an example by being publicly executed and discredited. Emmanuel Goldstein is the “counterfigure“ in the book. He is being seen as something like the devil, and represents everything opposite the Party.”

    “In Scientology people just vanish. Look at Heber Jentsch, Gilliome Lesevre, Ray Mirthoff and others. They don’t appear anymore at events, and you don’t know about them anymore. No one even mentions their names. They are just being forgotten. If you wrote to ED Int in the past and got an answer it was always signed by Gilliome Lesevre, now it is just ED INT.”

  • Judith Sylvester

    This story of Shelly Miscavige, raised from childhood in Scientology and compliant in her own destruction, reminds me of the story currently being reported in People magazine, on Rosemary Kennedy, who began life with a delivery tragedy based on delusion that compromised her mental health, and then was lobotomized due to her problems on the order of her father Joe Kennedy, who “never saw” her again. The story is so tragic from beginning to end that one can barely keep one’s eyes on the print.

  • Mockingbird

    Good morning beautiful Bunkeroos !!

    A bizarre and tragic story today got revisited.

    Usually the disclosure that Miscavige’s fury was so predictable that medical supplies were prepped prebeating for his many victims would merit shoops . As would the “You get your bitch whore cunt wife away from my husband!” she yelled at me. “She’s in there hanging her tits in his face and I know she’s trying to seduce him!”
    And “She’s doing it again. She’s hanging her tits in his face!” and David Miscavige hiding and forgetting where he hid his own gold, but honestly Shelly Miscavige’s story is so sad it takes all the fun out of shooping those absurd incidents.

    It really highlights the totalitarian and cultic nature of Scientology that Miscavige operates with impunity for decades.

    Incidentally I added a new post at my blog that is an extensive examination of Margaret Singer’s book Cults In Our Midst with commentary on my interpretation of how the Scientology cult compares to the cult information in the book.
    Cults in our Midst part 1
    http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/09/cults-in-our-midst-part-1.html

  • BraveBloggers

    So, if everything on this blog are lies and entheta, according to certain persons, the question I have is this: Will the persons who “may report up the lines about the content here” report the personal stories shared of what Shelly allegedly did/said about her husband? With emphasis on the gold – type III incident/1st aid kit?

    And, if so, how much will this impact Shelly? It’d be interesting to know if “cherry picking” things said from this site are taken as fact or plausible when it benefits certain persons thoughts/actions when the rest may be described as lies/entheta? Just a thought if you smell what I’m stepping in.

    • I doubt Miscavige is equipped to understand what is being said here – except for “thoughtcrime”. Even if he read about things that really happened, he seems capable of denying them, even to himself.

      Like so many other dictators, Miscavige probably does not have an accurate idea of what is really going on because his minions don’t dare tell him. If a Scientologist is preparing a report concerning this forum it will probably state that it is dominated by incoherent SPs who are regularly confronted and shattered by brave Scientologists (aka sad trolls).

      If there is any cherry-picking to be done it will have to skirt the main subject entirely – it’s just too risky. Will this post result in additional punishment for Shelly? I doubt it. Should Tony not tell the truth just in case? No. That wouldn’t help anyone. Miscavige seems to have no shortage of excuses for cruelty and does need to turn to use to find any.

      • BraveBloggers

        I didn’t mean to imply Tony shouldn’t tell the truth. Wasn’t my point at all. I mean I think it would be ironic if a site that is “all entheta” may actually have pieces excerpted where someone gets sec checked on them. In other words, some people in the CoS strata or SO see something and then use it for their purposes even though the same site is deemed fringe of the Internet and whatever other descriptions have been used. The truth should always be told. Please do not take that as even an intention or implied purpose of my post.

        I would just find it highly hypocritical “if” items were cherry picked for use in CoS. it would be akin to the married man preaching fidelity and then being caught in an affair.

        • And I did not mean to imply that – it just occurred to me, while I was writing, as a moral dilemma. I sometimes wonder what happens to Scientologists who enthusiastically post photographs on social media only to see them appear here.

          I think that the social situation inside a Scientology compound is a hall of mirrors where just about anything could be picked up and used to defend yourself or attack others.

          However, using material from this site (however distorted) would be to wield a dangerously double-edged sword – it’s origin could be used against you to greater effect than anything you might find here.

          That said, I don’t think anyone locked in a struggle for survival inside Scientology worries about hypocracy. It could happen…

          • BraveBloggers

            True, true. Particularly your last sentence, IMO. Very sad isn’t it? Talk about a no win situation.

      • Juicer77

        Good points.
        Just for clarification, I understood Brave Bloggers to mean that COB’s minions would do the cherry-picking in their reporting to him. Not that Tony would cherry-pick in what he reports. JMO.

        • BraveBloggers

          Exactly Juice. And to add to that – not that Tony shouldn’t report it. Just the opposite. I’m glad he is.

      • LongtimeLurker

        “I doubt Miscavige is equipped.”

        I fixed it.

        • daisy

          lLL I am on yesterdays blog trying to slog through it I found an interesting post where BraveB made I would like you to meet me there to answer questions, if you want to. You were on that thread while I was diking around. Only if you have time of want to do it. Thank you for what you did with the non-rules. It was very helpful for me and others.Talk soon

    • Draco

      I think he personally reads Tony’s blog everyday, as well as Mike Rinder’s. I hope he gets through some of the comments too. He is a mean spirited, nasty little poisonous jerk. He needs to know what people really think about him.

      • BraveBloggers

        I have no idea if he does or doesn’t. But I would find it hypocritical if they used information for ill purposes because everything on here is lies or whatever words were/have been used but then when it suits the purposes it may be used even while they decry this site/people on it. As I posted below I think it would be similar to the married person who holds themselves as a virtuous devoted spouse, and preaches that, but then gets caught in a cheating scandal. Just my opinion.

        • Draco

          He doesn’t have to justify anything he does to his juniors. Whatever makes them the most uncomfortable, he will use. Just another excuse to behave badly.

  • Graham

    Dave ‘Slappy’ Miscavige.
    Dave ‘Let Him Die’ Miscavige.
    Dave ‘King of the IAS’ Miscavige.
    And now we have Dave ‘Where Did I Put the Gold’ Miscavige.

    Jeez- I often wander round the house asking plaintively if anyone knows where I put my car keys, but forgetting where you left your gold is taking it to a whole ‘nother level.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Performed to “Where Do I Go,” from the Musical, “Hair”

      Where do I go? Follow the Thetan
      Where do I go? Don’t follow the wogs
      Ron is the something. Ron is the someone
      Who tells me why I live and die.

      Where do I go? Follow Pope Davey
      Where do I go? Follow his wheeze
      He has an answer, in his swift punches
      Which tell me if I’ll smile or cry.

      Listen to OTs, follow their blunders
      Follow the group think in all member’s eyes
      Down to the toilets, clean with your toothbrush
      Off to the whole’s Hole, where you can’t lie

      Where do I go? Follow my Thetan
      Where do I go? Follow the Clams
      Where do they lead me?
      There I’ll discover, why I live and die.

      Listen to OTs, follow their blunders
      Follow the group think in all member’s eyes
      Down to the toilets, clean with your toothbrush
      Off to the whole’s Hole, where you can’t cry

      Where do I go? Follow the Basics
      Where do I go? Watch David’s hands
      When will he punch me?
      And will I ever discover, when I’ll live and die?
      I live and die

      Why do I live, why do I die?
      Where do I go?
      Target 2, Watch R6
      Give more cash, Blow BTs
      Believe in Ron.

      — Read more: Hair – Where Do I Go Lyrics | MetroLyrics

      • Nada Jurisich-Fontana

        LOVE it!! I love that song anyway & now you’ve made it better, MaxSpaceman!

      • daisy

        You are hilarious and a poet. I have a new crush

    • Mockingbird

      Insanity level.

    • Draco

      I can forget where I stash some money (not huge amounts) but forget where I put the gold? Not likely.

      • Robert Eckert

        In college I used to forget where I put the Acapulco Gold, or where I put the Cuervo Gold

        • Draco

          Well that is understandable! And 10 to 1 your mates polished it all off while you were unconscious! 😉

          • daisy

            lol

  • Mockingbird

    Incidentally, Shelly’s family funeral to get to leave might be David Miscavige’s. She might be resigned to her fate, like many other Scientologists.

    • Robert Eckert

      I think the only funeral she’ll be allowed out for is her own.

      • Mockingbird

        When DM dies, all bets are off.

      • Draco

        Yeah – that’s what I thought she meant with that comment. Just like Heber Jentsch told his brother.

    • dungeon master

      I bet he’s frozen and stuffed in a vault with army’s of lawyers who will not let her near any service or $.

      • Annie

        I hope he dies in prison or stressed out in some dump in South America, paranoid and hiding from the Feds.

  • Hamtaro

    There once was a lady named Shelly
    Her life stinks so bad that it’s smelly
    When she angered old Dave
    He stuck her in a cave
    He’s a pint-sized Machiavelli.

    • dungeon master

      Ah, coffee and poetry! Sublime!

  • Newiga

    I’ve been waiting for this article! Can’t wait to get home and read it thoroughly.

    *secretly peeks at new post and makes a comment during a meeting* 😛

  • Graham

    Just a quick reminder that there are ‘donate’ and ‘subscribe’ buttons all the way up at top left, should you feel so inclined (and should you have the spare ‘readies’). Tony’s going to be travelling the world during October and I’m guessing he’ll be running to a tighter budget than Slappy ‘Where Did I Leave the Gold’ Miscavige.

  • pluvo

    The ecclesiastical leader of the “Church of Scientology”, David Miscavige, had his wife and ‘communicator’
    following him and carrying antiseptic, cottons swabs and first aid – anticipating his brutality. What compassion!

    (Tom Cruise: “I have never met …. a more compassionate being outside of what I have experienced from LRH. And I’ve met the leaders of leaders. I’ve met them all.”)

    KAREN DE LA CARRIERE: “She actually anticipated her husband’s brutality. She dutifully followed him around as part of his entourage and carried antiseptic, cottons swabs and first aid. When Mark Fisher was hit in the face by Miscavige and his nose was streaming with blood, Shelly was there within seconds to dab the blood because she was already walking around with a first aid kit.”

    Well OSA?? All lies again? Or is it the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics?

    • Draco

      Tom Cruise is an idiot.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Draco.

        Draco.

        You don’t know the history of compassionat…iatry…olology.

        • Draco

          Ah – but I know the history of idiocy!! I AM the history of idiocy! Therefore I am qualified to pronounce – TC is an idiot!

          • daisy

            I am sorry that scientology did that to you. Judging by the exes it seemed they knew who the best people were too.

  • BraveBloggers

    I understand people joke about this as a coping mechanism of sorts, but I just can’t find anything humorous or even sarcastic about this topic. It’s one more tragedy compounded. Maybe it hits me harder because I want to believe there is a chance for her still out there. The cards seem stacked against her, and let’s face it…here’s one person whose story may be extremely damaging. It all adds up to a feeling/scenario of almost hopelessness.

    Today I will try and keep in mind there is always hope. Even if it means someone is out and never speaks. I hope true freedom and Shelly reunite.

  • what’suppressive

    Great piece tonight Tony, nice to hear from Tom, JH, Karen, the Headleys and co.
    Shelly’s probably not going anywhere in a hurry unfortunately. I wonder how long till Dave gets bored with Lou and she’s in there preserving Hubbard’s crap too.

    Dave gets to pick his own girlfriends.

  • worstcultever

    And ten years from now, it will be twenty years of banishment. Shelly doesn’t have any home to “come home” to. She certainly has no conception of the thriving ex-sci community into which she’d be welcomed with open arms. I bet COP (Chairman of the Pompadour, Rinder’s great acronym) has her locked down so tight, the surveillance of Pat Broeker (e.g.) would look positively lackadaisical in comparison.

    In the end, it seems Shelly’s fate was sealed from a very early age when her family got snared by Hubbard.

    For me the most poignant portrait of her emerges in Jenna Miscavige’s “Beyond Belief.” You can feel “Aunt Shelly’s” impulses of human kindness and decency at war with Hubbard’s/DM’s institutionalized sadism. It was one of the things that made Jenna’s book so hard-hitting for me.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    It is interesting to see DM still wears a ring on the ring finger of his left hand –
    clearly visible in the 2006 Maiden Voyage video yesterday and at multiple
    Idle Morgue openings since.
    Does he consider himself still married to her in some perverse fashion?

    Here are some much older photos of Shelly on the Apollo:

    • Draco

      Not one of those girls look happy in that pic with hubbard. In fact the girl on his right arm almost looks like she’s cringing. Another happy wedding pic from the Apollo.

  • Draco

    “Good riddance to the bitch,”

    Phew – it would kill me if one of my kids thought like that about me.
    Hard to know what to say about this article. In many ways I feel sorry for her, but she had very little chance of turning into a good adult with her upbringing under hubbard’s TLC and then marrying a psycopath. Very interesting that SHE thought he was going psychotic.
    And isn’t her language just delightful? Thanks to all who contributed. Fascinating insight into the upper strata of sea org life. I can’t imagine living like that, in that charged and dangerous atmosphere year after year. Thank God I never had aspirations to rise to the top in that insane organisation. I wouldn’t have lasted a week.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    It’s funny. I just had my big toe dipped in the waters of Scientology. The person who brought me in doesn’t even remember that I was involved. Yet, I saw disgusting behaviours. My own behaviour at the time is something that I am not proud of at all. It seems obvious that the higher you get, the worse things are. Eventually, if you swim far enough through the cesspool, you find yourself engaged with completely loathsome creatures.

    I never set eyes on Rinder and Rathbun and to them I was non-existant. But, in the past, when I read about them or saw one of them in a video I felt the same emotions that I felt towards Himmler or Goering. Who ever thought they would come around? I still wouldn’t want to spend much time with them but I feel a certain forgiving towards them. I don’t blame the people who were messed around by them for continuing to feel angry.

    I never heard of Shelley Miscavige until she was mentioned on this site. Again, certainly, she has never laid eyes on me and she doesn’t know my name or the name I use here. But, it is hard for me to say, “Poor woman, she got caught up in all of this”. My tendency is to think, “She was screaming at people and ordering them to do things no sane person would do, all the while eating food prepared by chefs, drinking the finest wine and wearing tailor-made clothes. She deserves her fate.” That’s how I react emotionally to that sort of person.

    The best way a person can feel, engaged in Scientology criticism is to say, “I am here to make sure no one ever gets caught up in this again and to get the people already caught up in it out”. But sometimes that is difficult for me to do.

    Maybe Shelley will come around. If not, it will be another life wasted in Scientology.

    I try not to use profanity in my speech or writing but the phrase is so applicable. “If you’re going to fuck with the eagles you better know how to fly”.

    • Annie

      While I absolutely see your point and you are entitled to your opinion and feelings and I respect them, I see Shelly with compassion because she was essentially orphaned by her parents as a child. She and her sister were dumped on Scientology as kids and made to live on the Apollo. Hubbard appears to have been her father-figure at the time; she was devoted to him and served him daily. Because she was a child, because this was the only life she ever knew, because “independence” was something she never had a chance to experience…not even for an hour!…I feel pity. As for her husband, I can only imagine (and very much prefer not to) the absolute nightmare of being married to such a cruel, physically and verbally abusive man.

      • flexible

        Yes Annie.. exactly. She came across as a lonely little girl. Which she was.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Annie, I very much respect your point of view. I try to look on the world that way, but it is sometimes difficult. I was told that the Jews think it is a great attribute to do good when the goodness does not come naturally. Positive feelings towards the Shelley Miscaviges of the world are not easy for me, but I strive.

        I also try to keep a sense of proportion. It is easy to write her off saying, “She is a grown woman”. It is also easy to look at her or almost anybody and say, “Well, she had it tough. You can understand why she acted that way”. Surely, both of these opposing ideas apply some of the time.

        As you explain Shelley Miscavige’s situation, which I was previously unaware of, it seems almost unavoidable that she would have gotten sucked in. Yet, even Jenna Miscavige got out. Maybe Shelley Miscavige will wise up one day, in spite of everything. Maybe, like Rinder and Rathbun, she will strike a powerful blow against the cult. Or maybe she will die sad, forgotten and alone, a bit like Mary Sue Hubbard and become a footnote in the story of Scientology.

        If I prayed, I would pray for her.

        • Ralph Hunter

          Yes but Jenna had someone she loved and could trust

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      It’s so different for never-ins. I would love to hang out with, particularly, Mike Rinder. And Mosey; which might mean sharing a beer with Marty. But I have no baggage and I can appreciate them for what they have done post-Scientology. I know it might be very different if I were an ex.

      • We can only ask ourselves how we might have behaved in a similar situation – and reflect on the fact that closed societies such as Scientology can have an astonishingly powerful influence https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-part-4-power-corrupts-the-stanford-prison-experiment/

        • daisy

          When I saw Shindlers List, among other WW2 films, I did picture myself. I am a blue -eyed blonde. That reflection was scary. I often liken some elements of scientology to Nazi Germany. I think if we were honest, most people wouldn’t like themselves. Or maybe its me. I hope it is just me.

          • Humans are very adaptable. I think this can be both a boon and a curse. If you were born into the Nazi period it would be almost natural to accept what you were told.

            Regardless, many people had sufficiently independent minds and compassionate natures to see the evil and at least passively oppose it.

            Shindler was a so interesting because he was not a conventionally good man. The film understated his infidelity. He was a war profiteer who didn’t hesitate to use bribery to obtain business.

            What made him absolutely fascinating is that he had personal limits and remained absolutely true to them, to the extent of risking his own life.

            We none of us really know how we would behave until we are tested – but it must help to understand the social pressures that might lead us to make make decisions in advance must help. We still might not do the right thing – but we would do it knowingly, and have no excuse.

            The fact that you worry about these things at all is probably a good sign.

            • daisy

              Thank you OB . You are a great teacher

      • chukicita

        I don’t know, Andrea. I am also a never-in, but I have some baggage with stuff that was pulled on me (trying to get me fired from my job, for instance). Stuff that Marty and/or Mike would likely know about.

        I respect the difficulties faced by Mike and Marty, and I respect Mosey for loving her man and walking into a relationship with him with her eyes open. I respect that they have a lot to account for during the years they were in, to a lot of people, and I’m probably pretty far down on the list.

        My only “crime” was speaking out about what I saw with my own eyes and asking for transparency, and for that this organization that pretends to value freedom tried to shudder me into silence.

        And – although there are others who deserve it far more than me – I have yet to receive an apology from anyone.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Well that pisses me off. I have endless respect for never-in critics like you who have been at the front lines for years and who were seen as enough of a threat to come after. It’s hard to imagine now, when coming after critics would be like herding cats, but you guys were at the vanguard. Did they manage to cause you lasting harm or did your employer, for example, support you?

          • chukicita

            I didn’t lose my job in the end, but not before many exchanges and discussions between my university employer’s legal office and the Kobrinator, and being called on the carpet to the Dean.

            This was only the beginning of other times of what I believe were attempts to intimidate me during the time when Scn was trying hard to sweep Lisa McPherson under their ecclesiastical rug.

            As is the case with so many, it’s hard to nail down what is Scientology and what is life. For instance, the axle on my car that fell off, and my mechanic being concerned that it was cut. The time my day care called and told me a strange person was asking about my son (thankful for Colombian day care that understood security issues). The PI parked outside my house on more than one occasion, the times my trash disappeared, the befriending of members of my former musical group by a person who is a known ex-GO, and didn’t previously hang in our circle of friends.

            Of course, the stuff like when “Galaxy Productions” called me at work to ask if I would play a nonexistant gig across town on the day of a planned picket — well, that and the trying to get me fired thing, the intimidation inherent in another high-level Scnist calling me at work, all those up-front things I can pretty easily link to Scientology.

            But the rest of it…After awhile, you just sort of have to stop attributing everything that
            happens to you as a Scientology-driven event. Because that’s no way to live; no
            different really than attributing finding a parking place to the power
            of your OT postulates. And then they’ve won.

            • aquaclara

              How utterly atrocious. While I hear what you’re saying about not attributing everything bad to Scientology, there are facts to be faced. It all follows the same pattern of harassment, smears and bullying others have reported. This is how they roll. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with this.

              They treat their members like this, too, so it’s certainly not an endorsement that anyone would think would help with future recruitment.

            • chukicita

              Others have – and continue to – endured much worse. Every day, every lie, every abuse, every fraud, every family it tears apart — Scientology creates more targets it has to cover. It simply can’t sustain covering them all.

            • aquaclara

              You said this so well. Yes, there is a point where they have far surpassed their ability to sustain this. Thank God.

              Hope they’ve run out of spuds and guards and harassers by now. Not many signed up for this kind of crap.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Moxon & Kobrin…

              Worthless humans.

            • pluvo

              Accomplices.

            • LongtimeLurker

              The internet does some good things.

              1) The first line of their Wikipedia entry…
              “Moxon & Kobrin is a “captive” law firm of the Church of Scientology, meaning that it has no other clients apart from Scientology-affiliated entities.”

              It’s just the truth and although “captive” in this context isn’t derogatory, it just sounds kind of…lame…

              2) The photo that comes up when you simply Google “Moxon & Kobrin”

              Refresh to see it;

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Sorry to hear that you have been a target.

              I will occasionally say something and precede it by, “I know this sounds paranoid but, if you like, you can check it out yourself”. There is a fine line between paranoia and correctly attributing things happening in your life to dirty tricks by the Cult of Greed. You can never get it right on the mark. You are going to err on one side of the other no matter what you do.

              I am sure that you are being philosophical in comparing OSA phenomena to the OT phenomena. But we know they are different. There is no OT. There never has been. It is no more real than the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny or Glinda the Good Witch. But there is an OSA and they do nasty things. The evidence is everywhere, including the files of the FBI, the RCMP and that of many other governments. It is just hard to figure out what the OSA are doing sometimes.

            • chukicita

              Actually, I was being sarcastic. 😀

              I think it’s all just an extension of Scientology’s rule-by-fear philosophy.

            • TheMirrorThetan

              The easter bunny is real. Dammit.
              It is the only legitimate day we have to eat choccy til we puke.

        • seriouslyWTF

          May I ask? What did you see? No pressure.. Just curious.

          • chukicita

            I live near Flag. For a time I was a process server and my area was Clearwater. I’d go to the courthouse almost every day. There were times when I and others saw lines of people dressed in dark clothing being marched from one building to another by guards. On at least one occasion, I (and others) saw a young lady with bruises on her face.

            I saw some friends, non-Scns who owned stores downtown Clearwater, have their rents jacked by the new Scn owners of their buildings, and lost their businesses.

            I saw a family friend of a young man who died under strange circumstances while in the Sea Org, feel unable to ask questions about it and ultimately ask me to stop trying to find out what happened to him out of respect for his non-Scn family.

            I watched as a bullying organization took over a community. For all the caterwauling about tax exemption, Scn in Clearwater *never* paid property taxes – they just kept arguing that they shouldn’t have to for *decades* until the IRS 1993 decision.

            Gabe Cazares, Bob Minton, Mark Bunker, Shawn Lonsdale, who tried to stand up against the wrong they saw and endured MUCH worse than I. All never-ins. Of those I just named, only Mark is still alive.

            • seriouslyWTF

              Thank you for responding. How horrible to witness these things and not be able to do anything. However, as long as you and others speak out, and others listen, there will be changes.
              Look at what happened in Harlem yesterday. Polight, although somewhat misinformed, did have some facts straight regarding lrh and was able to run the scientolologists off. (Wondering if anyone sent that video to chili bean)

            • aquaclara

              You said it. Like you, I saw much crap. The owners of non-Scientology businesses were often treated so badly, especially if their property stood in the way of something Scientology wanted. Scientology never paid taxes, not even on hotel,space until they got caught.

              They caterwaul about everything. Those who stood up to them got slammed, and much worse than I could even describe.

              Sending you hugs, C, for surviving this crap, too. It’s worse than outsiders could ever imagine, and it”so been going on far too long. I have high hopes for 2016.

            • chukicita

              One friend had a little storefront where he sold absolutely beautiful handmade African flutes and drums and taught folks to play them. Another had a gallery space that supported local artists and became a funky listening room after gallery hours.

              Downtown Clearwater didn’t have to die – there was certainly plenty of the kind of culture that makes for a desirable community gathering place. Now it looks like an imitation, theme-park main street reject.

              As long as people keep talking about it, A. Social change is slow but inevitable.

      • Kim O’Brien

        yuck . but i would like to have a glass of wine with YOU 🙂

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          *clink*

          Ditto, Ms O’Brien! 🙂

      • Sid

        I have to agree with you on most of it. A lot of the rank and file didn’t have a clue about the crimes being committed, as well as never-ins, but there are higher execs who not only knew about them but perpetuated the activity.

        In my one time meeting with Mike Rinder I found that he still had that OSA-like fervor a bit. I was pretty taken aback when he came at me so strongly. I’ve always considered he was such a nice guy but I think from having run OSA for so many years there are some attitudes still ingrained. “Where do you live? Where do you ‘REALLY’ live?” aren’t questions I’d expected on meeting someone for the first time. I felt like I should be picking up the cans and then reporting to the MAA.

        Both Marty and Mike have played their roles in getting people out, myself included so there is a lot of benefit in what they are doing or have done with their blogs. Personally I’d like to see a little more balance with some personal experiences included along with the pointing out current activities and wrongdoings.

        I don’t think I’d feel comfortable sitting down for a beer with either of them. I’d be willing to try though. I’m always game to be proven wrong.

        One thing I think we can all agree on though is that not just Miscavige, but the whole damn house of cards needs to fall.

    • chukicita

      “Eventually, if you swim far enough through the cesspool, you find yourself engaged with completely loathsome creatures.”

      Really good point. Being forced to hang with a ham hock would really suck.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        The people I knew were fairly cute, at least when they weren’t behaving “differently”.

        • chukicita

          I’m using ham hock here with the Bunker definition of “Cardone.”

  • Annie

    I just finished reading an excellent article in the current New Yorker Magazine about the Salem witches, the trials, the major players including accused, accusers and the religious figures involved (I.e. Cotton Mather) and the mentality of the New England settlers including the absolute and unquestioning supremacy of the church and an all-encompassying obsession and complete reliance on religion.

    While there are many obvious parallels and things to be said about the dangers of fanatical belief, creating and scapegoating targets, and how dangerous and frightening fear itself it, I find myself going back over also how despite living in a society shaped by religion, eating, sleeping, breathing scripture, placing God and church and the bible above EVERYTHING, it’s still so hard for me to believe that a vast majority of the settlers as well as a group of highly educated (in the manner of their time), experienced men appointed to hear and judge the cases were essentially taken in and fooled so blatantly…often essentially sentencing someone to be hanged based on the whims of a teenage girl saying so-and-so is a witch because she’s looking and me and smiling and it sends me into fits.

    Sorry for the long-winded tangent, but my point is that the superpower claims of Scientology, the sci-fi secrets of body thetans and Xenu, heck, the paying all your money to buy a pretty building no one will ever use…all this magical thinking is eerily similar. Religion and suggestibility go hand in hand, and unscrupulous manipulator sand charlatans searching for targets don’t seem to come up empty handed.

    • worstcultever

      Annie, your comment reminds me of recently reading the wonderful historical novel “Gutenberg’s Apprentice,” about the monumental achievement of movable type in Mainz, Germany in the 15th c. The beautiful writing and compelling story aside, I was freshly blown away at the absolute, suffocating hold of the Church on not only all aspects of society, but on everyone’s individual brains. Just so horrifying and dispiriting. It’s amazing we’ve gotten anywhere at all as thinking humans, still dragging this cancer around on our backs (sorry for the badly mixed metaphor).

      • Annie

        Thanks for the recommendation…I’ll check it out!

      • Robert Eckert
        • pixie dust

          X-nay on the onster-may! Still love this movie.

      • Draco

        Thanks – after reading your post I just bought the Kindle version.

    • Robert Eckert

      Article about recent scams making over-the-top cultish claims, with long arguments in the comments thread about how people can let themselves fall for such things:

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2015/09/the-strange-tale-of-rose-marks/

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Excellent story Tony. Thanks to all who contributed their memories.

    I’ve always bandied back and forth between sympathy and indifference about Shelly. No matter what I feel though, I hope one day she’ll have the strength and support to walk away.

    I will always be curious how she feels about another woman being shacked up with her husband.

    • Juicer77

      Well said, NOLA. My guess would be that she now believes her 2-D relationship (marriage) is less important than the “martyrdom” she is experiencing in support of Hubbard’s goals.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I suppose once you allow the little prick to exile you, cheating on you isn’t much of a stretch.

        • Kim O’Brien

          TOTALLY off topic but you popped into my head last night. I have a painting that i bought like 20 years ago ..from an artist who ( i dod not realize ) is pretty big in NOLA …his name is Markus Akinlana and he has a couple of galleries there that i want to see .

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Is he the guy who does murals or am I thinking of someone else?

            I am trying to acquire a ‘Frenchy’ right now. He has one he painted in the Superdome during a game that my crazy football-lovin’ ass is in love with. 😀

            • Kim O’Brien

              yes ! does a bunch of murals …i have one of painting called “Oshun’s River” …i love it .

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              When you get a chance to come down, definitely go to his gallery. I’ve found most of the artists here to be extremely friendly and willing to chat you up all day sometimes. I got to speak with George Rodrigue before he died, I’ll never forget him. Incredibly kind man who was still surprised at how much people loved ‘Blue Dog’.

              Mr. Akinlana would probably love to know how much of a fan you are. 🙂

            • Kim O’Brien

              i bet that was an awesome conversation

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              If by ‘awesome’ you mean me fumbling like I was in the presence of a movie star and him being incredibly cool about my frothing…then yes, it was awesome. LOL 😀

              BTW, Marcus Akinlana on Twitter –> https://twitter.com/MAkinlana

  • Kim O’Brien

    with the endless comparisons of DM to Hitler….this woman is Eva Braun. If anyone went up there to take her out …she would just stay anyways . She sounds like a horrible person who is married to a horrible person who both worship another horrible person .

    • Annie

      I feel odd to keep “defending” her, but I really do thing the woman deserves compassion. She was abandoned as a child by her parents and she and her sister, as young children, were sent to live aboard the ship Apollo as servants to Hubbard. There, She was thoughly indoctrinated by Hubbard himself. She never stood a chance, never had a day of freedom, never had a normal anything. Then she ended up being married to a vicious, physically, mentally and emotionally abusive man who is the “leader” of the only way of like she has ever known. I kinda get why she wasn’t rainbows and sunshine and cuddles and “oh, don’t worry about Davie, I’ll take the heat on that”. And then he surgically removed her not only from his life, but from her own, as well.

      Yeah, I can’t help it. I really feel for her. I’m not saying she’s a saint, or even a particularly nice person. I don’t know. But I think her life has been always out of her control, always belonged to someone else and that her situation now is pitiable.

      • Kim O’Brien

        you seem to be making a lot of leaps . It’s just as possible that she loved the power , the perks , the special treatment she got …and would scratch the eyes out of anyone who said anything negative at all . It’s possible that she has chances to leave and instead …turned those in who confided in her . Her good friend Leah , tried to find out what happened to her …it’s possible that Shelly was pissed at her for that and totally supports her being trashed by the church now . I find it way more possible that she is just as evil as DM …than she is some poor , orphaned little girl in a grown woman’s body being forced to put the words of LRH on titanium so the aliens will see his wisdom .

        • Annie

          Possibly but no one in any story that I’ve read, or anyone I know who ever knew her or any of Tony’s sources ever say she seemed anything but miserable. One person mentioned she would use church funds to buy celebrity gifts and possibly enjoyed that one activity. I have never once heard any say she was a happy woman. So I have to say that you have as many leaps as I. You could be right, but I’d rather try to see the good. 🙂

          • Kim O’Brien

            i know you would rather see the good …:) …that is a good thing .

      • richelieu jr

        I do not doubt that she was victim, but that doesn’t excuse her behaviour. By far, most victims do not become abusers themselves, and certainly not on that scale.

        I am pushing the example to an extreme to make a point, but over 9 out of 10 serial killers (inf act, perhaps all, according to some experts) were themselves the victims of sadistic sexual abuse or violence and neglect at the hands of their parents and family members.

        Jeffrey Dahmer, to name but one, was left with an overwhelming fear of being alone, That s sad, and I feel for hims;

        It does not,however, in anyway excuse setting up a system where at the flip of a switch he stop anyone from leaving his house by all the doors and windows locking blinds coming down, and even electric shocks and gas at hand if necessary to subdue the ‘love object’ which wanted out.

        It explains, but does not excuse, keeping his erstwhile lovers’ heads hands and penis in his refrigerator next to the Tab and butter.

        The barrier system had me thinking perhaps it wasn’t such an exaggeration of Scientology after all… As for the fridge. Well, I’ve never seen the inside f DM’s…

  • Dr_Orpheus

    Shelly recognized that a lunatic had become the unquestionable head of Scientology and didn’t think there was anything wrong with the Tech? Talk about mental compartmentalization.

    • flexible

      That being said.. LRH went off a LOT! And nobody ever thought… or at least verbalized that there was something wrong. With him at least.. it must have been “us”.. screwing up yet again. After all.. he WAS Source dontcha know..

      • Dr_Orpheus

        I doubt any of the loyal drones would have described Sauce as “Type III” the way Shelly described her husband. The ones who did recognize Hubbard as nuts, left.

        • flexible

          As did I. :0)

          • richelieu jr

            Good for you!

    • Libertylover

      The story is possibly bait? Let a whole lot of rumors build up and then show them to be false, then voila all other true stories about Tom are then doubted and discredited by association, but that’s just my theory.

      • Ella Raitch

        Not a bad theory – same concept behind the “is-he-in-or-is-he-out” or “he-misses-Suri-he-doesn’t-see-Suri”. Who cares about the truth in the midst of contradictory BS

      • Dr_Orpheus

        Not a bad theory. It’s not like Dave Dastardly has many ways left of dealing with entheta.

  • Ella Raitch

    Maybe we should put the ‘where’s Shelly?” meme to bed and replace it with “how’s Shelly?” or “Is there any Shelly left?”

    • How about, we’d like to send Shelly “thinking of you” cards/letters and fan mail?

    • Juicer77

      (f5) for illustration…

    • Miss Tia

      FREE SHELLY!!

    • richelieu jr

      Perhaps less “Free Shelley” as “Shelley for Sale, 75% Off!”

  • Tracy Schmitz

    and AMAZINGLY none of the celebs still in ever ever EVER think “gee, isn’t it odd that shelley is no longer around EVER for ANYTHING for 10 years now? you know the wife of our leader who was everywhere and anywhere no matter how big or small no matter how important or unimportant of a event or gathering or meeting or whatever, and now for 10 years she decides to never be anywhere and is just happy, happy, working, working 24/7 wherever she is now? and we/i haven’t seen her myself in 10 years, you know the WIFE OF THE LEADER OF MY “RELIGION”?!!!! wouldn’t this describe all common sense and logic celebs?REALLY CELEBS? really? would love to know the explanation DM gives to the celebs (especially TC) about this!! or is it they don’t have enough rank (or intelligence) to ask?

    • I think TC would appreciate the pointers given how well the first 3 marriages went.

      • Annie

        I often wonder if (especially post Katie Holmes) he admires Miscavige’s surgical precision in separating himself from his wife. And hey! No alimony! It’s the perfect marriage EOC tech.

      • richelieu jr

        Maybe he can get a job issuing Marriage Iicenses and then refuse them to the Gays he’s so uptight about. I hear you have to have at least three failed marriages under your belt to have what takes to (not) do that job.

    • worstcultever

      Great and crucial point, Tracy

      Which reminds us – Leah Remini did notice, did care, did ask, and did do something. And it led to her and her whole family getting the hell out.

      But it really does make all the rest (Travoltas, etc) look even more clueless and hapless.

    • Nada Jurisich-Fontana

      The celebs probably don’t dare wonder out loud… besides, she’s probably on a super-confidential mission assisting LRH to save this sector.

    • MaxSpaceman

      As Leah’s smackdown stated, “You don’t have the rank…” No Scientologist would bring up the subject. Period. The thought police are too awful. The sec-checking that member’s pay dozens of thousands of dollars for, precludes them from saying squat.

  • Mary

    I must be a glutton for punishment. I read stories like this and I just want to (and sometimes do) cry and cry, but these stories do remind me, however, how I did the right thing by getting out, and telling my story which maybe helped someone else get out or someone else never get in.

    I would love for Karen, Jeff, Mike, Marc, Claire or Tom to tell me if they know, how did it happen that Shelly was put on the ship at such a young age? Where were her parent(s)?

    • Draco

      They might have been sea org as well, although many people did send the young children to the ship unaccompanied by parents or family. Just trusted “Ron” to look after the, I suppose…

  • pluvo

    TOM DEVOCHT: “Dave has no friends,” Shelly said. “Everybody’s gone. He can’t trust anyone. They’re all SPs. I just need to know, can we trust you? He needs to have friends and you’re his last friend. Can I count on you?”

    Yeah, Dave has no friends – he has only slaves, enforcers and sycophants and …. is surrounded by all the ‘SPs’.

    • Juicer77

      She may have made that statement purely as a way to manipulate Mr. DeVocht. Sounds very conniving to me.

      • pluvo

        Don’t think so. I never heard anybody who was arround Miscavige and knows the scene mentioning any “friends” of Miscavige (except TC).

        • Juicer77

          I see what you’re saying, but I honestly don’t believe that Miscavige believes he needs “friends.” Even Cruise is really just a plaything to him. If Shelley made such a statement she could have been truthful and wishing something good for her hubby Dave, but I stick by my opinion that in this particular instance it was a manipulative statement. Mr. DeVocht seems to feel it was a genuine request, but it’s hard to tell from a written statement. Perhaps he will clarify at some point.

          • madame duran

            When it comes to communication within Scientology, it is very far from being clear, truthful or reliable. It’s often a dicey affair with plenty of contradictions, shifts in meaning, multiple interpretations and where an honest word can land you in a heap of trouble*. Scientologists walk on eggshells because they don’t have the reassurance of anyone’s word to know where they stand, what’s happening next or who to trust. Seemingly random, harmless questions get asked but it’s up to the individual to figure out whether or not the question has any ulterior motive. That kind of constant second guessing and anxiety ultimately screws up a person’s head.

            Was Shelly being manipulative of DeVocht in that instance? Maybe. Maybe not. It’s hard to say and I don’t fault anyone for having an opinion either way. Shelly isn’t able to give her side of the story. What I do know is that Scientology uses language as a tool to trap, to confuse and to threaten others…just as Hubbard intended.

            *I thought Tom DeVocht’s “No” reply after being asked by Shelly if he could be trusted as David’s ‘friend’ was quite bold…but also a dangerous risk. Surprisingly, Shelly didn’t immediately reprimand him for it. What?? A Sea Org staff member having no loyalty for Dave? How is that ever excusable within the cult? Yet look at how Shelly reacted. Under a different circumstance (I.e. with Dave present), I doubt she would’ve ignored or accepted such a response. Unbelievable.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Re your last paragraph, I wonder if the Tom’s answer being such a short, simple, blinding moment of truth might have cut through Shelly’s clam-think for a moment and stopped her from having her usual reaction?

              Probably not.

            • Ralph Hunter

              That’s what great about him. He listens to his own voice

    • Draco

      He has no friends because he makes no friends – he only makes enemies.

  • Captain Blackheart

    Aaarrrhhh! Ye are nothin’ but a bunch of scurrilous bilge rats! The fact is it doesn’t matter how much grog I drink, I’d never forget where I put all me gold doubloons. Me beauty, Shelly, is keeping watch o’er all me booty over in the super secret location of Trementina. Only a genius Cap’n like m’self could dream up such an ingenious hiding place. No hornswaggler would ever think to look there! Har har, yer foiled again ye scurvy landlubbers.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      *sips coffee*

      Cannonball ready. Fire in 1…2….

  • Juicer77

    Someday I would love to see an article about Shelly and DM’s relationship in their early days together. All that’s been mentioned so far was a brief description of them having the hots for each other. Maybe their relationship never had much of a personal foundation, and was more of a convenience for the satisfaction of their meat bodies. They both seem like such driven, goal-oriented people I’m surprised a personal relationship got in the way of their devotion to Saving The GulAXee.

    • BraveBloggers

      Yes, I’d also like more in-depth on the evolution of the relationship. All relationships evolve, or devolve, and we known a bit about the start and alleged EP. But what about in-between too? Did the relationship perish as they were pushed further from the meat bodied life? I would like to know more about the genesis of the relationship.

      • Juicer77

        To Have and To Audit
        Days of Our Thetans
        🙂

        • BraveBloggers

          Oh my, you just threw out some rich pickings. Must. Resist. Lol

        • salin

          Resurrecting the defunct soap: Another World.

        • Draco

          The Bad and the Beaten

        • richelieu jr

          To Have and Have Lots.

    • Annie

      And they were Sea Org…so no dating really, no sex before marriage, and young and fast marriage was heavily encouraged.

      • Juicer77

        Exactly.

    • richelieu jr

      @juicer77:disqus– Have you seen a Punch and Judy show? It’s like that, but with e-meters instead of batons, DM is a bit shorter than Punch (though worthy of the nick-name, I am sure we can all agree), and instead of beating each other all the time, they turn to the audience and start recruiting children to beat.

      Then they get so turned on that they just have to going to their bedroom– and tell Tom Cruise all about how powerful they are. Then they both turned to portrait of L Ron above their bed and on the wall and saluted sharply, before facing the mirror and masturbating (She thinking about Tom Cruise and how powerful she was, DM thinking about TC and what great pimp he had turned to be) and, before bowing to the thunderous applause in their ears.

      • Juicer77

        Ewwwwwww….. So much for holding hands during a romantic walk on the deck of the Apollo! 😉

      • salin

        Yikes! The sad thing – is that it was probably even worse than that.

        • richelieu jr

          Exactly!

  • Mat Pesch

    Shelly is an example of what can happen when a child is raised inside the bubble world of a cult. Inside the bubble is the only world she knows and feels some what safe in, despite being a prisoner of it.

    • Davka

      Even if she ever did come out, I think she would be so lost…..

      • So we’d have to show her that outsiders are generally damned fine people, the sort of people who are willing to help.

        Her father-in-law would probably jump at the chance to help, and she knows him fairly well. Mark, Mike, Jesse, etc. also know her, and I’m certain they’d all volunteer. And having folks she knew on the inside ready to support her on the outside, would make a huge difference. It wouldn’t make the transition easy. Nothing could.

        It would make it less hard.

        • LongtimeLurker

          On Twitter last week, I told Chill E.B. I’d catch him if he jumped.

          He really didn’t believe me.

        • Davka

          I actually was thinking about her father-in-law, and her niece. Jenna had some nice stories about her in her book.

    • FOTF2012

      Very true, Mat. There is another North Korea analogy here. When a North Korean escapes the deadly, quasi-religious Kim-family totalitarian cult and makes it to South Korea, they are often transitioned into a controlled, safe environment — special villages to help them phase into freedom and be less overwhelmed. Ex-Scientologists typically find they also have to go through quite a transition period.

      Any reunification of the Korean peninsula will be more difficult than that of East and West Germany, which ran into many of the same cultural problems of shifting people from a completely government controlled life to a largely free life.

      Here is a plan for such reunification, by the way: http://www.icks.org/publication/pdf/2011-FALL-WINTER/8.pdf. Should there be such a plan for the eventual collapse of Scientology? Fortunately, Ortega’s and Rinder’s work, the Ex-Scientologist board, and other groups provide significant support. It was not always that way: not that many years ago, an Ex was likely to feel completely isolated and still at the mercy of the cult, since the cult seemed invincible and held everyone’s “secrets” garnered through auditing “confessionals,” overt/withhold write-ups, ethics actions, and so forth. That’s not the case today as the psychological bully of a cult is being cut down to size bit by bit.

      By the way, the link above, at page 155, has stats on the annual number of North Korean defectors. The stat is very much upward trending. The true statistic of Scientology could likewise be measured by the number of defectors each year. For Scientology, this would be a tremendous “down stat.” But for the wog, er, free world, the annual number of defectors is most likely a tremendous up stat. I wish that number could be measured and displayed to illustrate the trend.

      • Should there be such a plan for the eventual collapse of Scientology?

        I think there should. I believe that an unexpected number of people are going to emerge from years of near-solitary confinement, suffering from serious psychological problems and need help if they are not going to end up on the street.

        This may be years off yet… but it doesn’t hurt to plan.

  • And this song is going out to all the tiny dick Daves in fringeland…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrmNWorkJg

  • LongtimeLurker

    Seriously OT

    Over the past 2 weeks there have been some unconnected comments by several different posters that have got me thinking.

    They were mostly about commenting “rules”, Off Topic comments, personal statements and related topics. I have no problem with the statements in question and I’m not calling anyone out.

    But these are my thoughts about The Underground Bunker’s comment section.

    They are just my opinion and worth no more than anyone else’s. Please note however, I’m trying to be solution-focused, not just sharing some thoughts.

    Apologies for the length, but it was important to me to post it and I only had a couple of hours to edit it down. There’s some jokes if that helps.

    Preface 1 –
    I’m a never-in. I’ve only been Scientology watching for 5 (ish?) years and I’ve been commenting on The Bunker for less than 2 years. Of that 2 years I was away for 6 months.

    I’m basically a noob. So use that to gauge the value of what I’m saying and also whether you even want to bother reading the whole thing.

    Preface 2 –
    If you don’t like my persona as a commenter, this may not be for you. Apologies.

    Preface 3 –
    Tony, tell me if I’m out of line, I’ll overwrite with a dirty limerick.

    —————————–

    Section 1 – COMMENTING RULES
    If Tony wanted rules, there’d be rules.

    I’ve seen 3 different people over the past 2 weeks ask “have I broken a rule” or “what are the rules?” And these are only the times I noticed.

    Now, please note, I’m not attacking those who asked, but there are some issues they might not be aware of.

    1)The Bunker is a (relatively) normal internet comment section about a social subject (as opposed to say a site telling you how to soup-up Radio Controlled Planes).

    By tradition (and to work at all) a social subject can’t have too many “rules”. Commenters are usually encouraged to range widely and in a manner they are comfortable with.

    But even if you disagree with my assessment, the final call is still Tony’s.

    But he only has one strong guideline that I’ve ever heard and it doesn’t seem to be in a big banner anywhere.

    I’m told he doesn’t like commenters throwing strong personal insults. But I imagine you’d have to get pretty toxic, pretty repeatedly to get a ban.

    2) This next little section is NOT a reflection of my personal political beliefs, in many ways I’m the opposite of an anarchist, just FYI, anyway…

    Of course I understand a newcomer wanting to know the rules, but…

    – Newcomers might not know that one of the things Scientologists and other trolls accuse the Bunker of is being cult-like. Probably because they can’t find any actual real, valid objections.

    So they say it’s a cult and everyone here has the same opinions and acts the same and there are rules we all follow and we abuse those who step out of line, blah, blah.

    So maybe a better question to ask would be “do you have any suggestions for posting and interacting?”. Of course the difference between that and “rules”, is you’ll get a different answer from every
    person. Sorry.

    Anyway, now I’ll give you mine;

    – Life’s sometimes awkward (imho). Interactions are often uncertain (imho).

    That’s been my experience and I would like to (in a friendly manner) advise people to try and accept it and maneuver through accordingly.

    – The kind of communities that demand and believe in strict, 100% workable, social rules is very telling. Some examples;

    *The insane (no offence…well, actually yes offence) Pick Up “Artist” community.

    *Radical fundamentalist religious societies.

    *Scientology.

    I think there’s a lesson in that.

    – Having said “no rules really”, it’s still nice to be nice, you know?

    Section 2 – OFF TOPIC
    Scientology is an important subject and Tony is an important journalist and author.

    And too much off-topic in the middle of a bunch of important exchanges is definitely “not ideal”.

    However if Tony doesn’t want OT he’ll state this and he could choose to delete it when it happens. He hasn’t yet. I have seen him tell people, “hey too many videos in a row”. But that’s about it.

    Look, on rare occasions you could even call some of Tony’s actual articles almost OT – light-hearted things designed to get the community talking.

    So, that leaves this community’s standards as a guideline.

    …well, now we’re screwed.

    Everyone has a different bar for what is “too off topic” or how much off topic is “too much”.

    Part of the problem is what we each perceive as the validity and role of “personal chat”.

    Here’s what I think about that;

    For a never-in I talk too much about myself, I know it and try to reign it in, but sometimes I forget I just wrote 1000 words of BS only an hour ago.

    I often do it in pursuit of a joke; as a never-in, there’s a limit to what I have to offer, but because some exes have told me they appreciate my humor, I’ve drifted in that direction.

    Maybe sometimes it’s loneliness, other times to explain a comment or my own POV. There’s many more reasons others do it, I’m sure. But yeah, I for one could OT less, sure.

    But let’s remember the value that at least some personal chat can have.

    If as a community we came down hard on personal/OT comments or said only exes should ever talk about themselves…we would lose a very valuable (imho) part of this community;
    ————–

    Because when we show each other who we really are and let others see a wide range of feelings, reactions and perspectives, we’re helping to fight back against the narrow range of screwed-up, twisted emotional states that
    LRH wanted his followers to aspire to.

    Just the very act of sharing is a tool against this thing. I believe.

    ————–
    I probably post too many wombat photos, but on the other hand I’ve had exes occasionally thank me for something I’ve said or tell me that it led them to think about something slightly differently (please note – I’ve learnt more about life from exes in the 2 years than I could hope to give back in 20).

    And other never-ins, who rarely/never post OT have said much more wonderful, insightful meaningful things.

    But we can’t have one rule for some and one for others, right?

    If massive long OT threads happened multiple times, in the middle of every day that might be a problem. Maybe. But they don’t. Usually.

    THE NIGHT SHIFT
    This is a US-centric comment section.

    The middle of my day is the middle of the night here. If I log on in the afternoon, I’ve missed all the major chats and there are less people posting. A lot less.

    It’s when a lot of OT stuff happens – music etc. And it’s NOT a recent thing. And it’s worth noting that “Off
    Topic” at nighttime is how our society works – in real life as well.

    This is a community style forum not a pure information exchange one. It’s evolved that way, and that’s just how it is, at least right now.

    Some people don’t want that. And I totally get it – when I go to a military history forum, or a Lego forum I don’t want to hear anything about the personal lives of the commenters.

    When I go to those forums I just want the answer to was German Zimmerit anti-magnetic mine paste 40% Barium Sulphate, or 50%? Or which Lego set has the most of Part 50746 (the “cheese wedge”) in red and black.

    And those kinds of forums do exist for Scientology. But currently, The Bunker is not one.

    COLLAPSE THE THREAD
    So – most people can tell a thread is going to irritate them within 3 or 4 comments.

    I take control, solution-focused and collapse the hateful thing. Then it just shows the first commenter’s name. You press the same button to expand the thread.

    It’s on the far right, it only shows up when you move your mouse over the text of a comment.

    I use the “Collapse” button at least twice a day. I’m happier, the people can go on talking about what they want. No harm, no foul.

    If you don’t know about the “Collapse” button, you’re REALLY missing out – I’ve included an image at the bottom of this post.

    But if you think someone is way out of line, way too often, then maybe you should tell them?

    Which brings me to;

    Section 3 – DEALING WITH OTHER COMMENTERS

    Do whatever you want, I’m not anyone’s parent nor am I even a forum/comment expert.

    However, I can tell you what I think is workable and what’s not, based on observation.

    And I’m going to;

    PUBLIC CALLING OUT
    If you were at a party and someone was annoying you, would you just yell “hey, you suck?”

    If the answer is yes, that’s fine. Heck, I’ve done it, and I was sober.

    But if you do that, IRL or here in a comment forum you need to accept that;

    A) It might not have the desired effect and they might yell back.

    B) Other people standing (or commenting) nearby will almost certainly jump in and they might not agree with you. Or agree with either of you. Or even that drunk guy in the corner.

    So if you choose to do that, be aware your message might be lost because of the Signal-to-noise ratio.

    SEMI-PRIVATE CALLING OUT

    I gossip. Too much. I don’t know why and I’ve been trying for years to lessen it.

    But I’ve always known gossiping doesn’t encourage the person I’m talking about to make any life changes.

    They don’t know what you’re saying. If they do find out they’re more likely to think “who are these 2 jerks talking about me” than take on board even constructive criticism.

    If you’re complaining about someone here with a 3rd party, you’re basically gossiping while they’re in the room.

    That’s fine. Heck it can actually be constructive, you might learn something useful from the 3rd party, but it’s unlikely to make the original person alter their behavior or care about your perspective.

    What I think does work is…

    A PRIVATE CIVILIZED CHAT

    Ignore this if you actually intend on upsetting someone or have decided their response to you is unimportant. If that’s what you want that’s your choice. I’ve done it.

    But, if you want to be heard by the other party and have a chance of positively effecting their behavior (without them just getting angry for being publicly called-out), or at least understanding your POV, then think about saying it privately.

    Here’s how I do that;
    1 – Go to an old thread (a few days old to be safe)
    2 – Find an unrelated comment by the person you want to talk to
    3 – Reply to it. Open with why you’re chatting privately then go on to say what you have to say.
    4 – Disqus will send them an alert
    5 – To be polite come back to the current day’s thread find a current comment by that person and say “Hey SteveDave100, left you a message in an old thread.”

    If you don’t know what I mean when I say “Disqus alerts” you might be missing out on some good
    stuff. Let me know later today and I’ll explain. It’s automated and easy.

    If the idea of a direct interaction like that makes you uncomfortable because it’s socially awkward, I get that,
    but…well…once again, “collapse thread”.

    BTW – I also use this “private chat not-a-rule” for the rare times I spot a typo – Tony’s email address is at the top left, just under his bio. Look carefully, it doesn’t show up as a link.

    ———————————

    None of us is going to be 100% happy with the Bunker all the time.

    But personally I want to try and be aware of others, and at least occasionally modulate my own behaviour and in exchange I hope people might make some allowances.

    Which is actually mostly what happens, really.

    For the internet, this place is pretty mild.

    ———————————

    Nothing I just said are rules or even demands. Just obserggestions (observations/suggestions)

    ———————————

    Thanks for reading.

    ———————————

    I’m going to repost this tomorrow afternoon for those who don’t read the comments religiously.

    BTW – I never pretended I was gay. That is completely on Daisy.

    NOT that there is anything wrong with being gay.

    REFRESH for “collapse button” image.

    • Hamtaro

      No more methamphetamine for you!

      • LongtimeLurker

        QUIET tiny hamster!!!!

        • jazzlover

          As if you didn’t already know, my mind immediately went to music, tiny dancer.

          • LongtimeLurker

            lol
            …tried to write a couple of verses…couldn’t make it work.

            Hey while I’ve got you, I went back over some of yesterday’s comments that happened while I was away only just now, after I wrote the thing above.

            So you weren’t in mind when writing it.

            I’m worried it might look like I was talking about you, and I wasn’t. I’d talk to you if i had something to say.

            • jazzlover

              Understood that, but don’t worry — I’m bulletproof 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              I feel like there’s a song I could post for that. But I won’t.

            • jazzlover

              Thank you.

          • So could you provide new lyrics to Styx “Sailing Away” re: DM and Freewinds?

            • jazzlover

              I make no claim as a song writer. Lurker is one with a way with words, aside from Pan and a few others here, of course. I’m not sure if Pan takes special requests, though 😉

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yeah…it’s pretty long. Oh well.

        Just collapse it. I have.

        • Sherbet

          Jeez, I think you broke about 47 rules there, Lurker.

          • Juicer77

            I think it was a pop quiz! 😉

            • Sherbet

              I’d better study.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Yeah, you’re on thin ice already for your repeated and flagrant disregard for rule 29, 37 and 46b AND c.

            • Sherbet

              I’ll be exiled and toiling with Shelly before long.

            • Juicer77

              I put a new book cover on mine, teacher!! And here’s an apple.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I dropped the Bunker Rules printout when I sat down at my desk, and it went under the couch, so I couldn’t cross-check.

            • Sherbet

              I think what you said was: Be nice. Or try. Or at least be respectful. And collapse threads if they’re offensive or boring. And the Night Bunker — advance at your own risk. There will be OTness. And music. Maybe recipes. I don’t know, but watch out.

            • LongtimeLurker

              DAMMIT SHERBET!!!!

              Now I have to delete all that crap I wrote and replace it with your one awesome paragraph.

              This place!!!

              pffft

            • Sherbet

              Don’t worry about it. 90% of the people in here already collapsed it.

            • salin

              That’s what I read, as well. 😀

            • Rasha

              KITTEHS ‘N WOMBATS!!!

            • Baby

              and doggies Rashie

            • Rasha

              YES YES YES!!!! PUPPEHS!!

    • Annie

      Imma gonna go back and finish reading that in a minute, but first: PLEASE CAN WE HAVE THE DIRTY LIMERICK?

      • Rasha

        See? It’s that kind of clear-headed thinking we revere around here!! 🙂

      • Sherbet

        It begins:

        There once was a blogger named Lurker.

        • jazzlover

          He certainly was no shirker

        • LongtimeLurker

          lol

        • richelieu jr

          There once was Lurker named Longtime
          Who probably spent too much Bong-time
          There to combat Hubbard
          He’d share wombat cub art
          And post it all up here the wrong time.

          • daisy

            love it. It takes a lot of genius to make a good limerick

      • LongtimeLurker

        Only read it if you want.

        I’ll get back too you with the limerick – it needs to be dirty AND Scientology related. Might take me a while…

        • Here’s a start …

          There was once an OT from Nantucket
          With a BT so long he could suck it

          • LongtimeLurker

            Bam!

            That’s pretty great.

          • daisy

            With a BT so long Jenna would suck it.

        • Rasha

          I have one in mind… but….

          …what rhymes with “demented, over-compensating, slurred-speech, violent homonculus”?

          • LongtimeLurker

            Cabbage?

            No, um…Ravage?

            I feel like it should sound like that, but I can’t get it…

            Baggage?

    • Rasha

      Hehe. I’d love to see the stats on how many of my threads get collapsed!! Honestly though, despite my penchant of derailing (only ‘cuz I thought of something that made me laugh, or something), I do follow the posts with interest and fascination, and take everyone’s comments and stories in the light of what I’ve learned about their personalities and experience. Also, there are a couple of complete whackadoodles in here I can name, whose comments I wouldn’t miss for the world…

      • Sherbet

        Hey, you talkin’ about me me, Rasha?

        • daisy

          I am so relieved ! I can still drink if I am not weepy. How do you feel about pretentious drunks? I tend to quote Shakespeares soliloquies when I have a tipple.

          • Draco

            Still hunting for that apostrophe, hey?

            Here’s where it is: start at a and hit each key moving to your right – asdfghjkl;’

            Ah! I think I have just realised what your problem is! When I got a new PC and was posting something here, whenever I hit the quotes key and apostrophe key, it either wouldn’t show or would change the next letter to something like this: ä. When using either key at the beginning or end of a word you have to hit the space bar before you type the next thing.

            I hope that a) makes sense and b) you are sober enough to get it…

            Jus’ kiddin’ xxx

          • Rasha

            Nothin’ like getting tipsy in Iambic Pentameter! 🙂

            • daisy

              Your posts always make me laugh

            • Rasha

              XD

            • daisy

              Sorry just catching up an yesterdays E-mails Anyway tell me about this new drink Iambic Pentameter. Is a Liquor , or the name of a drink. Either way I want to try it

            • Rasha

              It would be an awesome name for a Brandy. Mmmmmmmm….

          • Sherbet

            I think I can manage Shakespeare soliloquies.

        • Rasha

          ……ummm…….. maybe……….

      • LongtimeLurker

        I’d love to reply to this, but as soon as I saw your name, I collapsed the comment.

        SOP

        ; P

        • Rasha

          …where’s that silly AutoCollapse when you need it???

          • LongtimeLurker

            Flag Rasha for AutoCollapse.

            Nah…I would never do that. Not to you, anyway. ; )

      • Draco

        Exactly! And we have had some legendary drinking parties, especially since we got the bigger couch and otterminz! I love your derails, Rasha. They usually have snortling into my coffee / wine / water etc.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Don’t ever change, Rasha 🙂

        • Rasha

          Same!!! <3

      • salin

        I’m still waiting for you to draft another scieno mad-libs script. 😀

    • Miss Tia

      the only ‘rules’/guidelines i am aware of are that you don’t make any kind of threat against scienos—-even in jest—-as they do read here and would use that against the bunker…..when someone has occasionally slipped up and said something—99% of the time in jest—-a fellow community member will ask them to change that and say why…..that’s pretty much a common sense rule/guideline there….

      if someone is trying to swing a ruler across your knuckles, grab it and either break it in 2 or grab it and keep it from ’em! 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        Lurker likes to take the ruler and use it to measure how big his GUN SHOW is!

        …wait…that wasn’t meant to sound like that…

        • Draco

          Haha – too late!

    • jazzlover

      You really are “da man” 😉 With you as inspiration, I’m off to post something O/T, but not really 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        I look forward to it. ; )

    • Draco

      Great comment LL. I pretty much agree with what you say. If I come across an OT thread, I’ll read it and join in if it interests me, otherwise just ignore it. I enjoy most of the OT stuff anyway; it’s sort of like an intermission at the theatre – where you chat to friends about something other than the play.

      I think the Bunker would get a bit boring if we were all just exes – there are also many of us who are still learning how the real world behaves, and the never-ins help us so much with that.

      And yes, the Bunker is very mild compared to some blogs / forums. Ye Gods! Just reading through some of the comments on a YouTube page has had me shocked to the core. There are some very strange people out there…

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thanks Draco.

        Yeah, I thought of including some (censored) examples of psychotically abusive nonsense from comments on a “normal” site.

        But it was already stupid long.

      • salin

        The theater/intermission analogy is spot on.

        • daisy

          On expert days, I struggle with the comments, cause I am learning . I find shoops, comics , poem etc. like recess at school

      • daisy

        I am so impressed by your humor and grace.

        • Draco

          Aw…thanks Daisy xxx (((hugs)))

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Some nice advice. I need to take this opportunity to apologise for the OT spiral I got caught up in the other day comparing English/American names for food. It was fun for me and the other two but I realise it took up a linear foot of Bunker comments and was probably tedious as hell for everyone else. I’ll take that as my OT pass for 2015 if I may.

      • Draco

        I enjoyed it – the whole biscuit / cookie / scone thing has always confused me.
        Like pavements and sidewalks. And lifts and elevators. And flats and apartments.
        K – I’ll stop now.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Boots and trunks?
          Bonnets and hoods?

          • Draco

            Hee hee – those sound like clothes and a suitcase!

            • LongtimeLurker

              What do you call the trunk and hood of a car over there, Draco?

            • Draco

              Same as you – boot and bonnet.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thought so.

      • LongtimeLurker

        No…you DON’T need to.

        Collapse button.

        And maybe I want a brief antidote for Sci-talking.

        …aaaa…I dunno…

      • salin

        That was fun! Please don’t pre-exclude future side conversations that clearly serve as a delightful diversion for many (lots of got caught up in it). 😀

        And… for those annoyed rather than amused: collapse button!

        • LongtimeLurker

          collapsebuttoncollapsebuttoncollapsebuttoncollapsebuttoncollapsebuttoncollapsebuttoncollapsebutton

      • Donna Cline Sargent

        Sorry, it was my fault. I started it.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Wasn’t it fun, though? Don’t worry, I used my OT pass. We can use yours next time 😀

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            ok 😉

      • I think we should get one or two insane derails per year. Some people want to spin into infinity on a daily basis.

      • daisy

        No need for apologies. People love these posts, I do. I enjoy them too. It is great to learn about each other .Your posts ooze with compassion ,warm and strength. Oh yeah you are wickedly funny. I would like to hear your story.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          What a lovely thing to say! Thank you, Daisy. I’m a never-in, so no story, just an abiding interest in what makes bullies tick 🙂

    • Jimmy3

      TL;DR: Something about zombies pretending they’re gay while not really being gay.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I might just delete it and use your synopsis, if that’s okay?

        • Jimmy3

          No, it’s a great comment, and I agree with most of your sentiments. The debate between “the Bunker should be a community chatroom vs. it should be a hard-hitting Scientology fact forum of unrelenting depression” has gone on for a while, and I’ve never understood why it can’t be both.

          Of course there is a lot of great journalism on where Scientology came from, what it was and what it is now covered here, and there are a lot of people with true horror stories who share here. Everyone can appreciate that. Something should be done about it, and people here actually do a great job with information and outreach that helps to stop it.

          But on the other hand, if this was only an outpost for Scientology horror stories, and quoting LRH policy, and screaming at inanimate objects.. the Bunker would be a major fucking bummer. Without the jokes and the off-topic humor, people would lose their minds. Or… I dunno… just leave. Probably that.

          Of course everyone is free to speak their mind here. This community has always been allowed to police itself. But I am reminded of something Captain Howdy said about chatting on the board, and I’m paraphrasing here, but he said something like: “Why post 30 shitty comments when you can post 5 great ones?”

          That’s a great rule of thumb, but I don’t follow it. I just want to get in my 30 comments so I can go back to sleep.

          • LongtimeLurker

            This was a great reply and I agree with most of it, too.

            If The Bunker comments section evolve organically (whatever I mean by that) into just-the-facts-ma’am with no OT and no Night Shift music-time, I’ll support that. And the same if it goes in the opposite direction.

            And of course if Tony just decides to lay down some strict guidelines I’ll get behind that as well.

            I guess I was just trying to say “it is what it is” . Wow deep.

            And yeah, I would really like to comment less. I need to get that shit under control.

            • Baby

              LL.. Tony just stated not too long ago that he loves reading the side comments.. We are all on the same page..really..

              I mean look at me and my doggies and the Library stories. There are so many more posters here and so many stories.. there is room for all..xo

            • daisy

              look up up post he stated , he not supports OT He supports it

          • “Why post 30 shitty comments when you can post 5 great ones?”
            I try to follow Howdy’s advice — except when it comes to “you can never have enough morphine” XD

            • Jimmy3

              Yeah, there are exceptions to the Howdy rule. Most replies don’t really count as comments, threads can be collapsed, but he was right about morphine do u have any

            • Not this second.

          • Observingsandiego

            As a daily lurker on the boards I enjoy it being both, and everything in between. It’s very entertaining and informative, my parents would be proud. Lol. My two cents.

          • daisy

            Tony said up post That he not only approves T O conversation and in fact encourages them. Yay we can drift

    • Robert Eckert

      “I probably post too many wombat photos” You weren’t here when lampreys were a repeat theme.

      “For the internet, this place is pretty mild.” You mean “awesome”.

      • LongtimeLurker

        It actually is awesome. Trufax.

        Lampreys are not.

        Thank you for reading. ; )

      • Sandy

        Lampreys – Gawd, you make me laugh sometimes, Robert…

        • Robert Eckert

          No, it used to be a thing here. I think it started when TonyO made a reference to regges latching on to a Scientologist like lampreys.

          http://tonyortega.org/2015/02/01/super-sunday-funnies-will-you-get-to-see-scientologys-ad-during-the-big-game-today/#comment-1829505397

          • Sandy

            That’s not the way I remember it, Robert. The way I remember it starting was way back when someone posted a pic and then it became a meme. But, I reserve the right to be senile. So, I may not be remembering correctly… 😉

            • Robert Eckert

              I might be the one misremembering. I’m not a spring chicken either.

            • Sandy

              Oh, Robert. They decided to early retire me in ’08, but kept me on thru ’09 – for some Corp reason. So – I have been hanging around Tony forever it seems. I spent 1/2 of ’08 and half of ’09 just hanging around the internet passing time. They had nothing else for me to do. So, it has been a long time reading Tony and I don’t always remember it all correctly.

              But – you have a fun brain that I enjoy.

    • I’ll be honest; you and your fellow derailers (pantalones, etc.) do keep me off this board a bit more than before. But I view that as more my problem than yours (also, I am paranoid that one of you is an old catfish). It may even be my fault (in part). Jimmy3, Fly and I always post off topic (which most likely bothers some) so that was bad modeling. However I always hoped we kept it short, fresh and punchy. And there were less people too. And we “knew” most of them so they benevolently tolerated us 🙂

      Now there’s so much unoriginal slog to scroll through I miss Observer’s, Mark’s, and Pan’s work and my own shoops get fewer upvotes (leading me to believe fewer eyes are seeing them).

      Anyway, that’s part of the reason I started my own off topic channel with J3 and fly and some others. So we could spin out more without overwhelming the bunker –which is a nice place because a lot of nice people from the past worked hard to make/keep it that way.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I’m sorry you think of me as a derailer.

        My intent is to talk to whoever happens to be on at the same time as me about what they want to talk about. Whether it’s OT or not. I think that shows in my comments today, for example.

        I can’t speak for anyone else’s motivation.

        I rarely start a topic, which is deliberate.

        And although I sometimes make a joke within a more serious thread, I don’t do it in the really serious ones.

        If anyone else views me as a derailer, I’d appreciate being told directly (I don’t care if it’s not on an old thread) so I can change my behavior.

        • I think of you as a derailer, but again, my problem — not yours. The only person I can control is myself. If the bunker changes too much for me to adapt, I can show myself the door. This is the way of life and ultimately a good thing 🙂
          P.S. Not threatening to leave — today has just been a bad day in here for me.

          • LongtimeLurker

            You can say it’s your problem.

            But there’s an argument to be made that the very act of sharing your judgement of me with me, then includes me in the problem and makes it mine.

            Particularly given the negative connotations of the word derailer, your mention of me and other people as some kind of group, and then additionally your use of the word “unoriginal” and invoking a list of “nice people from the past”, which I’m obviously not part of (and nor should I be of course).

            I’m not trying to change your mind about me.

            I just wonder, given what I told you drives my interactions in my previous reply and the fact that I believe I don’t start derails, what it is you want me to do with this information.

            • Meh. I was communicating with the community at large more than you, really.

          • daisy

            You had someone poo your work up thread.He didn’t understand the value and talent of what you did .I suspects that anger with the subject .Cartoon, sarcasm shoops limericks etc are bring about social commentary.We had men killed over cartoons.

            • Daisy, have I ever told you how much I love your carefree and easy to laugh manner 🙂
              It’s perfect.

            • daisy

              You have and I thank you for saying it again

      • Davka

        As someone who is as usual reading the comments at the end of the day and trying to catch up before I give up, I am just seeing this now. Thanks for the callout – this is a most interesting place, although not sure how much credit I get for the occasional delurk. There are some heavy hitters, of which I am not one. It was John P. And Poison Ivy that got me hooked on this place. And SPF. Smart, interesting – and something grew. And sometimes, I huff and sigh at the derail, and sometimes I am amused, and sometimes, I join on in. Kinda like life, right? The key is to know when to step in and when to just keep walking.

    • pluvo

      My view: I do go off-topic and like to joke but when I realize it could be too much I try to keep it to a minimum. I also collapse videos and photos when I don’t like them or it is too much.

      There is also a difference if I have hours of time (like today) or if I come from work. When I come from work, I often start to go through the comments and then give up because there are so many (it is not done with just collapsing, because I have to go through and figure out what to collapse). It’s a pity because I’m sure that I thenI miss interesting comments and also could probably contribute to some of them.

      Also I’m missing quite some people who don’t comment anymore or very seldom. I think one of the reasons for this could be that they have the same situation when not having a lot of time (also when I’m sure some people just move on and there are only so much stories and opinions which can be told) – and that’s really a shame!

      Sometimes when there are ‘hot topics’ I also have the notion that some of the derails are done subtle but on purpose, which is leading to less interchange and information about what people have experienced and to say about it.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Well, I think that’s all really valid.

        If there are people who you think are overdoing it, have you considered telling them directly?

        • pluvo

          No, it’s just a notion and I could be wrong. If I would be right, it is of no avail as these trolls are slick with a scheming agenda (don’t forget I’m an ex and know the ropes).

          You asked straight and I answered straight – but this is just my view and my opinion, my sentiment; it’s not my intention to offend you in any way. I’m not the ‘censor and patrolling’ type by nature. If you see or feel it differently, that is totally fine and certainly your right.

          I enjoy the joking in general and was many times cracking up about it (just look at J.Swift’s “Church of Scn Emergency Ecclesiastical First Aid Kit” above, as an example – love it).
          I always loved and appreciated good satire, and it was also helping me with my decompression form the cult, also on other blogs. Life without joking is dull, IMO.

  • 0tessa

    After reading this post, my viewpoint on Shelley Miscavige has changed.
    Of course she was dehumanized by the Scientology indoctrination, but many people in Scientology were not dehumanized; they left when they experienced the brutalities. Seems to me she acted as a real slave of Miscavige, covering up for him as much as she could, while seeing clearly he was psychotic at times. Maybe the status she had as First Lady in Scientology clouded her judgment.

  • Bea

    One person who has my sympathy today is “elle” (as in the one who lives under a bridge). Imagine having to report back to “dear Leader” that today’s story in the bunker is the ten year anniversary of his missing wife.

    • Annie

      Lol

    • Draco

      Smile…

    • I’ve always thought that Dear Leader read the Bunker, Mike Rinder’s and Mark Rathbun’s blogs himself. He can’t afford to let his close followers find out how well most of his defectors are doing. He really can’t.

      Not unless he wants half of Int Base to leave.

      • The amount of cognitive dissonance required to read these sites himself would render him even more psychotic than current reality indicates. Given his proclivity towards paranoid psycho-/sociopathy, he’s fine with others reading these sites as long as he knows who they are. He then personally sec-checks them to with an inch of a 911call while muttering about Shelly not being around with the kit.

      • Kestrel

        I think he reads the Bunker. I also think he could hire a non-believer to read and report, obviating the need to be worried about defections by close followers.

    • That could explain why she is so quiet today.

      • Observingsandiego

        Thank you Mon Elle for the answer to my question regarding ‘Elle’! (On a different thread, same subject though, it’s not letting me respond for some reason). I’m not sure if she (or they) is capable of an actual dialogue with you aside from the nonsense she seems to write, but kudos for making an effort. *question answered, crawling back to my being very entertained lurking state*

        • No worries, you’re welcomeand my expectations for dialogue are very, very, very low. That said I’m happy with any response (including the buzz of).

    • I doubt that’s one of “her” jobs, but it can’t be an easy task to take the reports to Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige. Especially now, where there’s no-one around carrying a first-aid kit to help those that David “let him die” Miscavige lays his hands on.

  • Sherbet

    Here’s my //fawn fawn kiss up to Tony// review of today’s post: Excellent! I love hearing from those who were there. And I love knowing the Shelly story is not over yet.

    • Kestrel

      Ditto.

  • BosonStark

    Shelly may not be missing in the main sense.

    But she has been missing from all the cult events she used to attend, and missing from ever being at the side of her husband, and probably ever seeing him again. Mostly likely she has been banished or exiled, made to disappear by Dave, and could be as Karen said, “imprisoned,” or at least heavily guarded. As far as we know, he didn’t call any internal kangaroo court or cult tribunal to make her leave. She was handled specially, since she wasn’t put in The Hole or made to go to the RPF.

    Dave probably thinks it’s not that much different from what Ron did with Mary Sue when she became dangerous [to Ron, and to Scientology] for being convicted in Snow White. Don’t see her again. Isolate her, and keep her quiet. Take away any duties she formerly had. Dave would know about that since he was a key player in the enforcement team back then to handle Mary Sue.

    What was dangerous about Shelly? Well, she started making her own decisions without consulting him, and she was also getting too possessive. He may even had a sense that his friend Tom Cruise picked two smart women for wives, and that Shelly was kind of dumb in comparison. That started to embarrass him.

    • Ella Raitch

      Yep – can totally see DM thinking Shelly was too downstat for the company he was keeping. But Lou? I suppose she’s factotum and not a significant other (at least, not formally).

      • BosonStark

        Yeah, Lou couldn’t nag him about things like that last time they had sex — months ago — and she probably doesn’t run around acting like she has to fix things that he messes up, therefore she makes him feel like he is incapable of messing up. She may play any game he wants to play, like blaming Marty Rathbun or the evil psychs, or whatever.

        • villagedianne

          I wish I could remember who said it, but recently someone said that Miscavige used to verbally abuse Laurisse as well.

    • arcinva

      I always thought of it more as, she “challenged” his authority / proved things could be done without him when she handled things on her own. In other words, she saw the two of them as co-leaders in a sense and he only wanted her there as a subservient wife/employee. I think he felt threatened.

  • SciWatcher

    “Why, we’re frequently asked, can’t law enforcement rescue Shelly if we’re so confident we know where she is? Well, as these anecdotes indicate, Shelly’s situation is a complex one.”

    It also helps if the “kidnapper” and jailer owns the LAPD.

    • Sherbet

      It sure looks like that, doesn’t it, SciWatcher…

  • jazzlover

    I’m posting some music early. Blame Lurker 🙂 Related to today’s post title, I give you what has turned into my favorite Zep tune, filled with “light and shade”:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l3Zui99fvE

    • Jimmy3

      Dammit

      • Juicer77

        (hey, whatever happened to FF?)

        • Jimmy3

          It didn’t seem like enough people were into it, so I kinda sidelined it. We had about 3 people including me who seemed excited about it, and 3 others who were like “yeah, sure, whatever.” I hate leagues where people go into it half-assed and they inevitably stop setting their lineups by week 4.

          We can still play if you want, the draft would have to be Wednesday night. But I don’t know if it’s worth it.

          • Juicer77

            That’s ok, it is more fun when people are pumped up about it. Just nudge me when the next CAH thing happens 🙂

            • Jimmy3

              For sure. I noted your suggestions for cards. Thank you 🙂

              And hey, a few of us could start a league and open it to the ESPN public. So it’d be like maybe 3-4 bunkerites and 6-8 random people. But at least on ESPN, people play out the season. That could still be a lot of fun.

            • Juicer77

              It’s up to you, someone still has to be commish and that’s work. If it didn’t fly that’s ok, I still have the family league to beat some butt 🙂

            • Jimmy3

              Let’s do that then. Can you draft Wednesday between 5-7?

            • Juicer77

              Yes, sir. Wrote it on my calendar. Will send you my email somewhere in the Wayback Machine 🙂

        • richelieu jr

          I would be glad to try but I don’t even understand the rules of regular football, let alone American, and then Fantasy.. I’m curious, but it just seems a bridge too far..

          • Juicer77

            Honestly I’m terrible at understanding football, too 🙂 The nice thing about fantasy leagues is you just pick a bunch of players and the system does all the scoring and everything for you. It even tells you when players are off that week and guesses how many points they will get. You just set your player lineup every week.

      • LongtimeLurker

        lol
        I thought for a second my screen had broken or I’d scrolled back up accidentally.

      • jazzlover

        I’m guessing you were thinking of doing the same? THAT’S my song, I tell ya. LOL

        • LongtimeLurker

          He actually did it. He must have posted 10 seconds after you.

          It looked freaky on my screen.

          • salin

            It sorta seemed like virtual deja vu.

            • LongtimeLurker

              A glitch in The Matrix….oooeeeeoooo…

            • Jimmy3

              They cut the hard line!

        • Jimmy3

          I hadn’t even read the article when I posted it. I saw the headline and went right to YouTube to copy the link to that song. I love it. But you posted it slightly before, so I edited mine. It’s all good.

          • jazzlover

            About a fondly remembered long lost love gone sour, it may indeed apply to today’s post in more ways than just the title. But I keep asking myself — is it really possible for anyone to love or have loved Davey?

  • richelieu jr

    So, Tony… Is it certain now that the LAPD went to her and saw her physically?

    As I recall they were playing it pretty vague at the time, language that could have implied a phone call, or a letter signed by a notary or a photo with a newspaper à la a hostage situation, or whatever the hell stunt L Ron pulled from his trailer to prove he was still alive to kill Nibs’ lawsuit..

    This would seem to be new information… What is the new source?

  • LongtimeLurker

    xoxo

  • Jimmy3

    Edit: jazzlover cockblocked my song

    • Miss Tia

      Perfect!

  • pluvo

    OT: Hi cars! Tks for the up-votes. Nice seeing you still around. How are you doing? Not tempted for some interchange and communication on the Bunker’s comments section? Don’t be shy, come out of the shadows and lurk mood. 🙂

    • Ella Raitch

      Toot toot

    • Sherbet

      Cars snuck in? How nice!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hello, Cars! We miss you 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Beep beep!

    • Miss Tia

      Hi cars!!!

    • MaxSpaceman

      Cars! Cars! bo bars,
      bo nana fana fo fars
      Fee-fy-moe Mars,
      Cars!

      • richelieu jr

        Ah, yes! the Name Game (as opposed to the Scilon Version, “The Blame Game” (HINT: You LOSE. Always.))!

        Hubbard, Blubbered, Buh-Blowhard
        Buh nana Fanny Fat SoHard

        Fee-Hi-Fo-More Retard
        Hubbard!

        (with apologies to the mentally handicapped, so many of whom I treasure and find so sweet and dear.)

  • worstcultever

    Sometimes feel myself on both sides of a thing at once – in this case, Team Fuck Shelly and Team Poor Shelly.

    In any case I think the brilliantly succinct “Where’s Shelly” meme should never be retired. Rather it should be stepped up and written and asked everywhere. It should be spray-painted and stickered and leafleted all over Big Blue and all their other properties and on the sidewalks where Scientology seeks its prey. People who could give a fuck about Xenu and all the other bullshit can instantly relate to a bizarrely missing wife of a bigshot. What if Jackie Kennedy had just gone missing on Jack one day? And nobody’s supposed to say a thing? Yes COP is no JFK, but still. He’s a big enough deal in his army of soldier ants.

    I repeat – this issue got Leah Remini out. Let’s work it, people!

    And as completely pessimistic as I am about people like Heber and Shelly – who the hell knows. Some tiny thing could turn the worm. We never know. Stranger shit has happened.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I also feel both.

      There’s a quote by Robert Ressler. He was a pioneering serial-killer profiler. He personally interviewed 36 incarcerated serial killers used that to set up Vi-CAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program), the US’s centralized database of information on unsolved homicides.

      He’s one of the main reasons at least some serial killers are caught more quickly than in years gone by. He worked directly on many cases of serial homicide including Jeffrey Dahmer, Richard Chase and John Joubert.

      Anyway…and I have to paraphrase here, but he said “With some of the things done to some of these people as children, I weep for them. But what they choose to do as adults means they should be removed from society.” The crux is that not everyone who gets horribly abused becomes a serial killer.

      I’m not saying that Shelly’s current situation has any legitimacy, it doesn’t. But that swing between feelings is understandable.

      Actually personally, I feel that as a child she never had any hope and I weep for her, but she made some choices as an adult I find deplorable and judge her for while weeping for her victims, but her current situation is separate from that and I weep for her again.

      It’s a weeping rollercoaster in Lurkerland.

      • richelieu jr

        This is exactly what I believe, LL.

        One can weep for the child and hold the adult responsible.

        This is why there is a guilt phase and sentencing phase of a trial. In the latter the judge can hear mitigating factors, pleas for clemency, etc…

        • LongtimeLurker

          Good point about the trial phases.

          I hadn’t considered that.

    • Kestrel

      One of the best things I saw in 2013 was the “Where’s Shelly Miscavige” banner flown behind a plane by Rinder and Bennitt. Not “Free Shelly” but “Where’s Shelly”.

  • pluvo
    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      This sounds like something THDNE could do beautifully 🙂

      • pluvo

        Yes!
        Where is she these days?

  • rom661

    I am by no means an expert on this, but I interpret her comment “There’s only one way” as referring to her death.

    • worstcultever

      me too

    • salin

      Sadly, that is how I interpreted it in the past, and it is how I still interpret it. What a terribly sad statement – completely resigned.

    • Miss Tia

      yep, me too…..didn’t heber say something like that too?

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I did, too, and it made me feel sick. I can’t…I just can’t imagine where your mind has to be to resign yourself to a situation like that.

      • Draco

        Ditto to everything you just said. Living like that is awful.

    • It’s also a terrible example of ‘learned helplessness’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
      I wonder what mental state she is in at this time.

    • Always Amazed

      Agree, and I thought rinder s take was out of left field….. But if anyone would know what she meant, he would know much more than I. I take it as yet another perspective of that effed up CS.

      if DM had no friends then, can u imagine his insanity now? .

    • Baby

      Well that’s what Heber said room..

      “David Jentzsch, 80, tells me that the last time he spoke to his
      brother Heber, 76, was about three years ago. And at that time he urged
      his younger brother to break out of Scientology’s International Base
      near Hemet, California.

      “He said, ‘I don’t think I can ever get
      out of here.’ But I told him, ‘You have to try.’ And the last thing he
      said to me was, ‘I’ll never get out of here alive’.” Tony VV

  • aquaclara

    Maybe the last time Shelly was really in public was in 1976 to 1977, during her sophomore and last year in high school, after Scientology landed in Clearwater. She was of course already a Scientologist. Here’s her yearbook photo when she was known as Michele Barnett. Marc Yaeger was in class with her.

    I don’t know if she even finished the year out, and neither returned for the following year.
    No matter how conflicted people are about her in her later years, she was just a teenager here. She deserved better. When she didn’t return to school, why didn’t anyone look for her then? Officials and intrepid reporters knew then that people were locked up inside the Fort Harrison Hotel.
    I appreciate all the stories from those who knew her. These may be the only uncoerced, freely-given stories shared about Shelly. Maybe one day, she’ll get to see them.

  • BosonStark

    Scientologists look for the “who” to blame, and Shelly was a convenient scapegoat for Dave when things were falling apart, and even when his mind was slipping and he forgot where his gold was. Shelly was the “who.”

    Dave could be the Emperor and run around with no clothes on, being irrational, beating people, and get away with it but Shelly couldn’t do that, and so she was disliked by people. She didn’t have his ecclesiastical immunity. Plus, if he reasoned that Shelly was to blame for him acting poorly — he had to beat people up because she had the first aid kit ready — then she was the “who.” She was making him fall apart, he thought.

    He probably still blames her for things. It’s her damn brain beams.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    “Life is an adventure in forgiveness.”
    Norman Cousins
    Pity no one ever told Hubbard or DM.

    Poor Shelly. She probably thinks it’s a wog eat wog world out here.

    The last thing Shelly said to DM?
    “Don’t forget to take your shills, dear.”

    DM, the Tight Rope Walker

    He lies through his teeth with the greatest of ease
    And the cult he controls is a social disease.
    His minions arrive like some festering fleas
    To prey on the ruins of those brought to their knees.
    They cheat and they steal, everybody agrees
    And the tripe that they peddle is like mouldy cheese.
    They sail their old cruise ship upon the high seas
    Where they promise to tell you life’s secret keys
    But in truth all their hustle is a fraudulent tease.
    IRS, take them down, pretty please, pretty please!

    • salin

      Pretty please! and Tick Tock!

    • arcinva

      “Wog eat wog world”. Aaaand there goes another keyboard.

      • daisy

        Walk off proudly.

  • Kim O’Brien

    so …after more than 2 months since god decided to have my house hit by a tornado because i support gay marriage ( according to the nut down the street ) I am finally getting a new roof . The roofing company is exploiting Mexican labor – on labor day . Facepalm

    • Juicer77

      Sorry about your roof, and your nutty neighbor. And the guys who probably aren’t getting adequate pay or insurance coverage 🙁 Happy Labor Day – wheeeeeeee!!

      • Kim O’Brien

        i gave them each $200 in cash and i called to yell at the roofing company . Ugh …i still feel like shit

        • Juicer77

          There’s not always much you can do, especially if the company is hired by the insurance folks.

        • Sherbet

          Ya done good. Lots of people would brag about the good deal they got from the roofing company.

        • Observer

          Let your insurance company know.

        • You good people. Kim 🙂

        • Robert Eckert

          You deserve more than an upvote for that:

          http://boyswithbeardswithcats.com/

    • Missionary Kid

      Of course, your neighbor knows the mind of god… They’re also ignorant of the history of marriage, as well as the new testament.

      The church had no involvement in marriage for over 1500 years, and then it was only for the royalty. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, yet he had a lot to say about divorce. (I’m assuming that they’re a fundamentalist Christian). Of all the Christians, fundamentalists have the highest divorce rate.

    • LongtimeLurker

      You can’t just make up crazy stories about your neighbor and expect us to fall for them.

    • Robert Eckert
  • Rasha

    Just thinking out loud here… well, typing out loud. I get the feeling that Shelley might have a certain level of untreated clinical depression. I can understand the state of mind, being unable to escape the lack of drive, desire or expression, while being under the thumb of an ultimate controlling husband who leads as dictator of an ultimate controlling cult. It would be implosive to the will and spirit – Davey’s perfect counterpart and tragic to consider.

    JM2C

    • daisy

      I think in general even if people did not have any mental illness, in a natural state, living in an environment such as scientology it would certainly be induced. I am hopeful that those people in, could be treated after they get out and get helped. IMHO. If they need medicine, talk therapy , etc . so be it .Our beautiful exes have taught us, that can happen. Unfortunately, it may not happen soon enough for some.

      • salin

        ^^^^ Right Here ^^^^

      • LongtimeLurker

        Abso-freakin’-lutely, Daisy.

        Anyone who doesn’t believe that living in an environment such as Scientology could induce a range of mental illnesses…has never lived in a really bad environment.

    • Ralph Hunter

      She has a depleted look in the pictures. Too worn too thin…brittle

  • Sejanus

    Think of the sweet damage she could do to the little Dinktator if she ever got out and opened her mouth.

    Personally, I figure her only way out of there is in a box.

    • BosonStark

      I’m still thanking Xenu that his father is writing a book. The stories of his childhood alone are going to be riveting.

      • Sherbet

        “Lies! Lies from a bitter defrocked apostate who was going to be tossed out of the church for misconduct anyway!”
        (Pssst, Ms. Pouw. The book hasn’t come out yet.)
        “Still, it’s lies! Lies, I tell you!”

        • Libertylover

          The latest thing Elle said was it will be written by someone else and his senile father will just sign his name to it. Just a money grab. Probably will be the Church’s line later.

          • Sherbet

            Ha! You know them well.

  • richelieu jr

    I am quite relieved to see these recollections of Shelley, much more inline with what I have been told.

    There is a tendency on these boards, concerning all sorts of ‘Outies’ to go “Oh, the poor, poor thing! All is forgiven, s/he has criticized COB and is now on the side of the angels and it makes me very uncomfortable.

    It is dangerous.

    Can you imagine when the Allies liberated the concentration camps, if there was Kamp Kommander’s wife, profiting from slave labour, administering punishment, breaking up marriages and serving as pimp furinshing slaves and camp residents to the local celeb, that she would be excused because she had grown up in the Kamp? Because she sometimes said she felt soy for her victims?

    She is the perfect example of my argument that CoS cannot be just a pyramid with one bad guy and 49,999 victims. That is NONSENSE.

    She chose her side.

    Religion. Meh, maybe. Love for someone like COB? Well, ti takes all kinds.

    But as Karen notes, she went forma sad little girl, to a princess in5k robes whomad eothter people sad, who forced people to eat slop and not sleep whilst she dined lie a queen and slept on high thread-count sheets.

    That is the kind of person she was.

    I do not want to be judge, jury and executioner. I do not want o be one of the cheerleaders, either.

    However, I do think these people should have as fair a trial as they can get under the US System. And this includes Marty and Mike and everyone else in any executive position in this Stalinist, vicious, Cosa Nostra-esque organization.

    I woud actually prefer a SOuth African-style Truth COmmission, but it is difficult to do wihtpeople whose religion is not onlya lie based onlies, but teaches them from Day ONe to Be Lying Liars as first reflext-,a nd ten if they ahve time t examine what was siad.

    Eventhe bes tof them (and MArty ahs come long way, it seems to me) spent the greatest part of thier adult lives servinga norganization whose avowed dogam was to take over the orld and KILL EVERY ONE ON THIS LIST, plus all handicapped people and anhone ele who wasn’t onboard wiht LRH’s bullshit.
    The fac ttha tthis was silly nonsense, and you ahve to be either brain)damaged or puolling entire flocks of sheep over your eyes to brlieve if-t for a secondis irrelevant. The gy piuring LSD into the cinty’s water sources thnks it will make eveyone go crazy because he doesn’t understand the way it will dissolve in water and become inert an meaningless. HE is still trying to kill everyone, is the very definition of a Terrorist, and was still attempting mass murder.

    This is true even if he turns on the, SLA or whatever organization you want to invent and starts (after years- ahem!- criticizing their ex-leader who said it was good idea to do.

    Mos tof these people (certainly all the tops, even once they went public, spent a great deal of their time TRYING TO REHABILITATE THE IMAGE OF LRH.

    These are at best, seriously misguided individuals, who need psychological help, and who have overbearing, violent, fascist and reactionary tendencies and a Bizarro-World way of thinking (amusingly (or not) called ‘Ethics’ by which they can continue to call us non-Scilons ‘wogs’ and therefore sub-human whilst they continue to comprise the “Master Race’. Homo Novae.

    Well they don’t say that word in public that much anymore, but they do occasionally call us the equivalent “Groupies” comes to mind,a s one lovely Kinsley Gaffe (when you accidentally say the truth on camera).. It is much like hard-boiled racists who know the ‘N’ word will get them in hot water but still manage to use it with out every pronouncing those sounds. Cops use hand signs, and politicians say ‘Urban’, “Leeches”, “Inner City” “Non-Producers” etc in their little dog-whistle way to communicate to others of their ilk. Yes Marty, we got it. We are not as great a persona s you. We are ‘just your ‘groupies’. You will forgive me if I don’t feel like sukcing your cock to get into SP-Palooza…

    It just goes to show that you can take the “Scientology Warrior” out of the SeaOrg, but it is harder to take the Sea Org out of the… Sci__War– Aging man yelling at he same goons who used to harass others at his command for being on his front lawn..

    I would feel slightly differently it Mike, Marty et al had come out and immediately (or at least when they started their blogs) throw all the dirt on the table, even (ESPECIALLY) that which reflected poorly on them, open up and give interviews and say Here are the crimes (REAL ones, not that Scilon nonsense). Here is what our role was in them, etc..

    Isntead we got this mushy, COB bad, LRON good nonsense, and information parceled out, teased in ‘nest week on my blog’-style, whilst they very openly played footsie with Miscavige ina sort of ‘Stop bugging me or I’ll tel them about ____” dance which proves they still think and act like the Scilons they have been their whole lives, ripping apart families and marriages, refusing to let he sick take medicine (Shame in you Tory, you weak-willed PTS Epileptic! Stop pulling it in!), pushing teenage girls to the point of suicide (or further, covering up the evidence that COB (and themselves) were involved up to the elbows in Lisa McPherson’s murder, and even in calmer moments showing clear pride in chasing escaped slaves down and browbeating them into submission.

    And these folks only saw the light when IT HAPPENED TO THEM. That was out of line. For everyone else,w ell, SPs, etc..

    I thought it was quite touching and sad when Marty said he died a little inside each time he heard what he had done. That’s hard. But just. He is clearly dying a lot less that Lisa McPherson, et al, and pets of all the journalists and judges that died, etc…

    So Shelley is in a library camp in the California Mountains, Boo-fucking-Hoo. Most of her victims never had it so good (at least until they left the cult she spent her life devoted to.

    I bet she doesn’t “Die a little inside” each time she thinks of them, if she ever does, nor when she pats herself on the back for how high she rose in an organization that she hopes one day to help kill hundreds of millions of people. You’ve gotta break a few eggs if you wanna make a nice fur coat or an elegant dress, right?

    Free Shelley!

    Then give her a fair trial, which is much more than she ever gave anyone else.

    • salin

      Epic Rant.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Brutal but mostly fair.

    • daisy

      I hope that I have got the gist of your argument. I understand it, in fact that was my own belief. I do think people should be accountable. If members are committing crimes, they should be tried for it, period. To use your analogy, however, comes the difficulty. In WW2, came the trials of Nuremberg. The leaders and perpetrators of those crimes were held responsible. The rank and file German was not. They were in what they thought was a just cause. Should they be berated, made to feel embarrassed. It depends on who is looking at the circumstances. Being an never-in, I would not make that judgement. ( I have and do, all the time. Hyperbole ) It is up to the victim, to decide to grant favor or not to those victimizers. We can not be tried for our thoughts and feelings, thank Rabbit. I think that everyone has the right to consider people as assholes if they so choose, they just can not act on it.

      • richelieu jr

        Yes, that is it, more or less.

        I cannot speak for the rank-and-file,e ither. But it is our tax money that goes otharrassing Rathbun’s Wife,and to following Papa MIscavige, etc.A s wlelas to Davey’s vacations wihthsi ‘mouthpiece (of ass)’

        I really don’t care what these people think. I may find them witty or charming or they may have strange fantasies involving Piglet and pair of handcuffs.

        But Jenna Miscavige’s story about having to go out to commit suicide on a ledge to get Marty’s fat ass up and start him thinking that maybe forcing her back into slavery, depriving her of her family, and most directly- Breaking up her engagement and sending her beloved off to e a slave or an SP, simply because DM said so and that meant that Marty made it happen, no matter how idiotic, immoral or illegal..

        Even if the guy heard trumpets and saw Lord Jesus dancing the Cha-Cha and saying “Do it! Davey’s So Great!” I don’t give a damn. What he die was at best lazily heartless and more believably actively evil…

        As for Shelley, Jenna has a good bit to say? How she would try to act nice, but turn on a dime into a threatening harpy accusing her of coasting on ‘privilege’ and using HER (Shelley) to get away with murder (ironic, that, isn’t it?)

        Shelley kept he away from her parents and bad-mouthed them terribly to her. That alone would constitute unforgivable child-abuse inay sane organiation or society.

        But hey, she has to go to day camp and still aid her beloved pyramid scheme. I hope she dies of needlepoint-itis.

        • daisy

          I agree with you. I have not read the book written by Jenna. I will. She seems to have an interesting perspective of her family. It should be a fascinating read, given the subject.

          • Libertylover

            I listened to the Audio Book of “Beyond Belief” on my Ipod over a period of a week. It’s 12 hours and unabridged. Broke my heart. Shelly comes across as being both sympathetic and incredibly mean and unpredictable. A lot of it is told as unfolding story. I think Jenna was struggling to understand Shelly in her writing. Lots of incidents are told from her view at the time and then she fills in the details of what was really happening after she found out. Gives a good picture of the loneliness and confusion when in. IIRC Shelly was portrayed as quite a sexual repression agent. Seemed like she had “issues herself with sex.
            It’s a great book, highly recommended.
            She praise Marty as being different too and willing to help her in small ways, but tell it “warts and all.”

            • daisy

              Its on my list. Hope I get to it soon. I have seen her on t.v. she is an impressive young lady

          • richelieu jr

            Of all the books I have read on the various aspects and experiences of Scientology, I found hers the most emotionally effecting… There are moments of real tension. She has it in her to be a true writer, should she desire to become one… I cannot recommed t highmy enough.

            Others not to be missed are Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief” by Lawrence Wright (History, Hubbard and the evolution of the church and how it works on its victims) doubtless the most complete overall book so far, much more comprehensive and deeply researched than the film by a similar name;
            “(Let’s sell them) A Piece of Blue Sky” by Jon Atack, the most perceptive and keenly observed book, and one of the earliest; Updated recently, Jon Atack has done more to open my eyes and change my mind about parts of Scientology than anyone else. Indispensable and absolutely brilliant;

            “Inside Scientology” by Janet Reitman, the bast on the Lisa McPherson death and all that happened around it, with well-illustrated characters and situations as to the place of the ‘church’ today which I found nearly heart-breaking but never less than interesting;
            “Blown for Good” by Marc Headley, a gripping first-person account of the goings-on ‘Over the Rainbow’ at Gold Base, Miscavige’s attempts to micro-manage personal and romantic relationships, and his escape by motorcycle leading to a suspenseful low-speed chase in which the stakes couldn’t seem higher, and then his return to rescue the woman he loved who was still being pressured to divorce him. Funny, wry and deeply felt, Headley’s perceptions of the backwards, tail)waving-the-dog aspects of Hubbard’s ‘unchangeable’ ‘tech’ is as funny as it is sickening and sad:

            “Counterfeit Dreams”, Jefferson Hawkins, the brains behind those cheesy-yet-effective belching volcanoes you saw so often between the informercials int he late 80s when Scientology was actually growing for the last time. Luckily, something that actually works in Scientology stands out like the one girl who’s kicking wrong in a chorus line, and even diminutive dimwit dictator David Miscavige noticed something was going horribly right and got straight to work, demoting, imprisoning and beating everyone involved in this inexcusable, unwarranted success. Follow Jefferson’s voyage from the disfunctional, but cock-eyed optimism of the late-sixties SeaOrg, through his attempt to “Make it Work” in the 80s by using “Wog’ experts and ‘tech’ such as (gasp!) actual market research, and subsequent downfall under rain of blows from the tiny fists of Miscavige and the heavy weight of his disastrous decisions, PR-Wise. His departure was difficult personally, but it is inspiring to follow him as he put the whole circus in his rear-view mirror and found to his surprise that the Wog World was not only welcoming (if confusing after so long) but that you don’t have to work 7/7 12+ hours a day. In fact it just seems a bit weird. He has since become a guiding light for how to get out of the cult, both physically and mentally (much less obvious), first on his blog, then in his second book;

            “The Unbreakable Miss Lovely” By Compton’s finest, Antonio Ortega, heir to the family Hot Sauce Fortune, now blogging somewhere in old pajama bottoms with a motley crew of apostates, apostles, toothpaste tubes and aspirin bottles, last scene sauntering down a Parisian street with a Scottish expatriot and malcontent, none-the-better for having scarfed down profiteroles with some sort of puce-coloured ice-cream in them along with copious amounts of ‘house wine’..
            Still, in spite of this obvious lack of culinary prudence, n-and plain common sense, his is the best book on the courage, and sometimes foolishness of the first woman to write about the CoS and to fall victim to its horrific ‘Fair Play’ policy of destroying lives. Her life story is amazing an inspiring in equal quantities, just as the ‘church’s’ reactions are equal parts stunning and sickening. Watch as people are hired to pretend to be her best friends whilst reporting on her, pushing her further into depression, and trying to get her to stand near the edge of the roof of her apartment building, after carefully framing her for making terrorist bomb threats against the CoS, then pushing her to the brink of suicide (which they knew through raiding her Psychologist’s office, stealing docs- any of which they copied and hand-delivered to her parents). Thrill to her little sister being drug through the apartment with a gun pressed to her head, to the largest infiltration of the US Government Agencies in its history (to this day), to lawyers bought off and bugged, to false friends and employers, harassment over DECADES, even after having been caught out by a separate Government raid on their offices. Gasp as a survivor of the Holocaust and Auschwitz has her name dragged through the mud, her nose and tongue mocked and her relationship with her serious boyfriend broken beyond repair. Watch Hubbard’s own eldest son, ‘NIbs’, play a double (triple?) agent, tot he point where you aren’t sure who is screwing who and why…

            Then remember- Oh, right because HUBBARD.

            Lastly, though dated, “The Scandal of Scientology”, Paulette’s own book, makes great reading and is available for free online. You can also find her article on stowing away ona cruise ship (great fun!) and many others on her site as well.

            There are many other books available, many of them very good (Barefaced Messiah, also available for free online after the Scilons managed to block its publication in the States) comes to mind) but these represent both the best of the lot, IMHO, and a pretty varied sample that won’t just keep going over the same ground again and again.

    • Observingsandiego

      Hi everyone, sorry to jump into a conversation on my first post, been reading the boards for a little over a year but usually keep my thoughts to myself. @Richilieu (hopefully that’s spelled correctly lol), I agree with much of what you say in your post, but have a question as a never-in – I would think so much of the LRH ‘correction/worship/redemption comes from many of these higher ups spending most of their lives inside the cult, and once they blow it’s easiest to reject the cult, rejecting lrh takes time and fundamental changes in how they think, look at life, and takes a huge, very hard ability to say everything I believed in is wrong. I may be wrong, I’m sure everyone else can give a better idea, but I know personally that takes more courage than most people have and would be a long process if this is the case. 😉

      • Observingsandiego

        Personally for me IT would take, not that I have personally been through something like that

      • Ella Raitch

        Welcome and great first post!

      • richelieu jr

        First of all, welcome to the group, and to any conversation you care to’ ump into’; Your voice is a welcome as anyone’s!

        Personally, I found it a difficult, though formative experience, when I rejected my Christian upbringing, losing friends and family in the process.

        That said, I think how long it takes depends on the person, and their willingness to set it aside. The higher-ups not only have the usual Cult mind-control to cast -off, and the loss of social circles, family and friends, but also the idea of their own success, and their image as being better than everyone (especially in a cult of racial/spiritual/cultural superiority like Scientology.

        Some,like Chris Shelton, wipe it off like a bad dream, and don”t mess around with ‘Independence Scientology’ nonsense which many here insist is a necessary ‘decompression’ step. Personally, I don’t think the cure for lying is less-expensive lies, or continued rehabilitation of the Big Liar himself. When you reject Buddhism,they don’t try you out for a couple of years with a skinnier Buddha, and Mini-Jesus never realy caught on, I guess… You don’t quit smack by buying watered-down discount heroin..

        Others, even as the slowly wake up in public, continue to make money off of books singing the praises of Hubbard vs Miscavige, or their own glorious youths as “Warriors” in the Hitler yo–Excuse me, SeaOrg or CRT…

        I don’t get how you can say, ‘Now I get it– I was in a cult,mind)-control was used, so now, I just need some more auditing and to clear L RON Hubbard’s name!”

        There’s a word for that, in fact several, and none of them too flattering: “Denial”, “Stupidity”, “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice– but can you make it more affordable?”

        • Observingsandiego

          Lol I too grew up in a Christian family, left that behind, but find it hard to imagine questioning everything I’d ever believed (ie dealing with people, not yelling at ashtrays to solve a problem, the overall mindset in life rather than just a belief in a god, etc) , I think I meant we should be patient with those just out and hope that they come to the conclusion that any sane person would – the tech doesn’t work not because of dm or some fault with the church, but that LRH was and is the problem. I feel hesitant saying that because I have a lot of respect for people just out still trying to rationalize their lives and believing that they can make lrh work outside the church. I’d like to think with enough time out everyone would see what most people see, but am not so sure. Maybe people like Chris are the exception rather than the rule, but I’d love it if everyone out eventually gains his rejection of all things Scientology.

          Thank you so much for the patient and warm welcome!!!!!

      • Baby

        Welcome Observings… we always love when lurkers join! You know how Cray Cray it can get.

    • Markthehungarian

      I agree with you mostly. She was no doubt mean, and judging by the way Miscavige acts, you likely need to be warped to consider him a catch. But she’s also a product of her environment, which in her case is the horribly abusive world of Scientology. And brainwashed. I’m guessing she feels as though she deserves her treatment, like many abused wives do.

      Agreed the LRH good, COB bad argument is garbage and a lie.

      For Marty, I followed his blog from the beginning and it was clear that he was decompressing after spending so long in the Cult. As far as I can gather, there is regret. And shame. Yes, he hasn’t revealed where the bodies are buried, but I think there are 2 reasons for that; 1, he wants to avoid jail, and 2, he must not give David Miscavige the opportunity to use any revelations to place ALL the responsibility at Marty’s, feet, which he no doubt would. While the Alex Gibney doc didn’t tell me anything new – it is a great primer – there was for me one moment that stood out from the rest… at the end, Marty is asked “what do you regret?” and after a short pause he says “all of it.” That is some hardcore shit coming from the former #2 in, err, anything, especially Scientology. To say that in public is a big deal.

      Scientology is dying. Miscavige is in power, but he looks ill. Frail. Old. Unhealthy. Apparently he smokes like a chimney – hopefully Kool Menthols as they are on the nastier end of the nasty cigarette spectrum – and he could die any day. Heart attacks happen. So do strokes. And if so, what then?

      Shelly is released? To do what? She’s probably a zombie as is. Would she go to DM’s funeral? Would they let her? Would she cry? Would we be surprised if she did? And would anyone outside of our bubble care?

    • “Chosen her side” after having been dumped in there at 12?

      That cuts her (and other child victims of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology) an enormous amount of slack in my book. Not because I think that what they have done while inside is in any way OK, but because they never had, well, a choice.

      And, yes, a south-African style truth commission sounds like the thing to have.

    • April Moonlight

      as long as you are willing to give her credit for “time served” in the concentration camp. it’s been about 10 years as a prisoner, eh?

      and more credit if she gives testimony against the church… where are the offshore accounts, where is the gold stashed, where is the evidence of crimes against people…? amnesty in exchange for info.

      Shelly’s story is what first got me interested in Scn, I’ve heard the same from others, for that alone, she gets credit. I’d truly love to see Shelly come back out into society and live out what’s left of her life in freedom. and not end up like Annie Broeker Tidman.

      • richelieu jr

        “Concentration Camp”? Please.
        That is an insult to all the victims of real concentration camps, ethnic cleansing and the Holocaust.

        Shame on you.

        She gets no credit just because her story got out. She had nothing to do with it, and presumably did her best to keep it quiet. While we’re at it, let’s give a big hand to Kim Davis for shining alight on homophobia and religious abuse of government power. Thanks Kim for all you’ve done for us!

        • April Moonlight

          hmmm… you apparently have extremely strong feelings against Shelly. I do believe the place she is held is much like a concentration camp, as I’ve seen photos of the metal barriers with inward-facing rolls of barbed wire, the cameras, alarms, and guarded gates, etc.

          I’m a strong and vocal advocate for human rights, and always take time to educate people on issues, including the horrors of the holocaust and the absurdity of Kim Davis’s position in trying to deny same-sex couples their rightful marriage licenses.

          You are trying to cloud this issue by bringing in other things that I have not addressed, and your “shame on you” is really misplaced, simply because I have compassion for a woman stuck in either or both a physical and/or mental prison.

          I am trying not to take offense at your remarks towards me, and your insinuations about my stance on other issues (which you happen to be dead wrong about).

          I’m sorry I ruffled your feathers, and urge you to try to have both tolerance for anyone you may encounter whose opinions may not coincide with yours, and compassion for a person in a difficult situation.

          • April Moonlight

            “shame on you”. For goodness sake. That you even said that, for such a silly thing. If you only knew the time, effort and work I’ve done to help people extricate themselves from the FLDS, and the volunteer work I do for the homeless and hungry and counseling for domestic violence victims and their children and my time and funds spent happily to support several animal rights groups… I can honestly say I have never in my life had the words “shame on you” directed towards me, until now, when some commenter who does not know me decided to paint me as some kind of human rights denier… simply because I expressed an opinion… sheesh. Makes one want to stop commenting entirely. Ok, then. I will. You’ve silenced me. So only your views will be heard from here on out. Happy now?

          • richelieu jr

            No, I have no particularly strong feelings about Shelley, other than that people who commit crimes should be brought to justice. I do not believe they should simply waltz out into the real world with no examination of their guilt or ‘tie served’ and how it was served; If she spent it, even under harsh conditions (which there is real reason to doubt), trying to further the future extermination of non-Scilons, I am not inclined to give them the same benefit of the doubt as, say, a woman guilty of manslaughter who spent her time inside getting a GED and helping others learn to read.

            I would be quite surprised if you saw these photos of ‘inward facing barbed-wire’ at the place where she is kept. I suspect you have seen the same photos we all have of the wire surrounding ‘Gold Base’, which does indeed look grim.

            I have seen no photos of where Shelly is believed to be. Before she was there it was get)away for Scilon elite, and before that a vacation camp, so I think images of Auschwitz may be a bit far-fetched.

            I am curious- Besides ‘barbed wire’, what to you constitutes a ‘concentration camp’? For one thing, they were called that for the concentration of’ of people there– No room to move, unsanitary conditions, people literally sleeping in the same cot, in bunk beds piled up… Do you know how many people per square foot there were at Auschwitz? How many are there where Shelly is?

            Here are some stats from Auschwitz:

            In the main camp Auschwitz l twenty brick buildings were set aside as
            prisoners quarters in 1940. These buildings measuring 45.38 meters by
            17.5 meters each.

            The number of prisoners living in one block varied and depended on the
            overall number of prisoners in the camp, throughout the first year of
            the camps existence the inmates slept in rows on straw mattresses laid
            out in the various rooms.

            The first three-tiered wooden bunks were delivered to Auschwitz at the end
            of February 1941 and in the following months they were gradually
            installed in the blocks used by the prisoners as living quarters.

            One such bunk measuring 80cm wide by 200cm long and 225cm high with three
            straw mattresses was theoretically intended for three prisoners. In
            practice two or more prisoners slept on the one mattress.

            There is also the slight question of armed guards (none on any Scilon site we know of), sadistic fake executions (‘overboarding’ might arguably work here, though no one really thought people died from it..) and many more real ones, forced physical labour, insufficient nutrition (worse than rice and beans, even– We’re talking a single potato boiled for dozens of people.. etc.. Women are said to have burned 300 calories per day in Auschwitz… How many calories a day does she get there?

            Do you have evidence she is living under these conditions? They sound much more to me like the ones she sent hundreds of her fellow ‘believers off to suffer from in the RPR and the RPF’s RPF…

            I have some compassion for people in difficult situations, tolerance for differing opinions, but lessening the singularity and unique quality of the Holocaust, whilst blithely dismissing the very real, physical abuses and CRIMES (real world ones, not Scilon ‘overts and with-helds’).

            Can you offer any proof she ever stayed her beloved husband’s hand? Can you show any acts of true generousity or largess? Can you show she was unaware?

            I am open to any evidence you might have about this woman’s current conditions also, as well as any reason you feel that she should be exempt from any punishment, or that what she is experiencing truly amounts to what you say; rather than her voluntary continued service to her beloved cult. You have offered none, except for statements that you are well-meaning (I don’t doubt it) and saw a photo of inward-facing barbed-wire.

            No one, besides David Miscavige himself could be more aware of his abuses. Telling people to get their act together so they don’t get beaten by him hardly constitutes an act of bravery or great humanity to me. There is not a single piece of testimony above that indicates she was anything other than a nasty piece of work.

            Please feel free to post any testimony or photos you have on this subject, and I promise I will consider them. If not, I am afraid ‘not being seen’ does not constitute suffering concentration camp conditions, not does it merit a ‘get out of jail free’ card.

            Not in my book. And thank, god not in the law of any civilized nation.

            I am open to arguments that she should be given leniency because she was raised inthe cult,( in the CMS for badness’ sake!) and therefore never really had a chance. That is heartbreaking, and depressing in the extreme, but your country executes many killers every day who never had a chance, either. This is why there is a ‘finding of guilt’ part of a trial, and then, later on, a ‘sentencing’ portion where we hear the hard-luck that brought the guilty parties to this point.

            The fact is, many people in her position either woke up and got out of the cult, or settled down to pushing paper or that used toilet paper they use for body-routing… ‘Dientics’, I think it is called?)

            Shelly Miscavige willing married a psychopath,stayed with him (divorce is oh-so-easy in
            Sciloontonology (in fact, often hard to avoid), and reveled in his power
            to settle scores, mete out punishment, and draped herself in luxurious
            clothes whilst her erstwhile friends scrabbled around in the mud, trying to fix whatever latest ‘mud-slide’ they had “pulled in”.

            My sources in the main are the statements above, Tony’s reporting on her situation, ‘Blown for Good’ by Marc Headley and Jenna Miscavige (her own niece)’s book.

            Here is a bit of primer on Auschwitz in articular and Concentration Camps in General (I visited one in Serbia during the little ‘spat’ they had int he 90s. You might want to take a look.

            http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/auschwitzbasics.html

            • April Moonlight

              You do not appear to be rational, and your rabidly overboard reply to my comment is bordering on psychopathic. I have no intention of ever having communication with you other than right now, to say please don’t reply to my comments, and I’ll ignore yours as well. thanks.

  • worstcultever

    All of that and more. The main thing is to pound it so hard, that the minute anybody thinks about Scientology, they think Where’s Shelly? because they’ve heard it so much.

  • Bob

    I would say it’s pretty uncanny how Davey married a Mary Sue look alike and has treated Shelly similarly to how Hubbard treated Mary Sue. David Mini-Me-Scavige. A tiny clone monster of “The old man”. Shelly never had a chance.

    • Chee Chalker

      Wow that is creepy

    • salin

      It sounds like she was at times as ruthless as Mary Sue, as well.

      • Bob

        Watch The Master. The parallels are close. Shelly had lots of time yo observe Mary Sue.

    • pluvo

      Mary Sue – she supported Hubbard big time. I don’t think that without her devotion he could have pulled it off. It is not clearly to see where the accompliceship ends and the victimhood begins.

      • Bob

        Agreed. Hubbard and Mary Sue raised a lot of clones(CMOs). Most grew up and left. A few stayed and became just like their mommy and daddy.

    • MaxSpaceman

      1 in color of Mary Hubbard

      • MarcabExpat

        Whoa. Even creepier.

    • Ella Raitch

      Did he marry a look-alike or was she styled as a look-alike? Creepy…

      • Bob

        Good question.

  • Susan_Qbird_Poche

    All right. TO reports Shelly Miscavige is ALIVE and living & working @ “a small compound in the mountains above Los Angeles.” She has always been a scientologist, her entire life… from itty-bitty to “Queen”, however exiled. It is all she has ever known… Hubbard’s way.
    She was born in 1961 which makes her 3 years younger than me and it just seems that basically, she’s still ‘young’ & retired.

    She’s done. She’s done in. She knows that. AND! She doesn’t have to be around that puke of a husband anymore. No more Org Boards to fuck with. No more stupid events to attend. She most likely has her very own subordinates to help her do her busy ‘work’… whatever those nuts do. She’s been set up for life!

    Yeah. What if she’s happy as a clam where’s she’s at?
    Do Scn. Inc. executives ever RETIRE?
    What if she’s just fine & dandy and taking it easy now doing what she gd loves – which is loving that supreme asshole LRH. In the beautiful mountains of California ~ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/366f516cb007fc629047a1b000ab79c254e2336283fa14548639930afcc48ffe.jpg

    • Susan_Qbird_Poche
      • MaxSpaceman

        Living at a compound that exceeds the Corleone’s Lake Tahoe spread. Shelly may be livin’ large tho’ confined to the 1 spot. But it’s some spot.

        • Susan_Qbird_Poche

          exactly.

    • LongtimeLurker

      She might be happy.

      But DM doesn’t know or care about that. We assume.

      Isn’t it the treatment that is wrong, not how she copes with it?

      If I’ve misunderstood what we’re talking about, like I did with the last 5 posts to which I replied…sorry…

      …maybe I’m having an aneurysm…

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Mary Sue “retired” to a big house in LA where she was basically never seen again until she was carried out.

  • Jimmy3

    Bunker be like, “Where’s Shelly?”
    But Peanut Butter be like, “Where’s Jelly?”

    • Beth

      wow. how do you do it?

      • Sherbet

        More like “Why do you do it?”

        • Jimmy3

          Did you see a sign that said “Q&A”? Because the sign was wrong. This is not a Q&A session. Save your questions for designated Q&A sessions. Thank you.

          • Sherbet

            I’ll do that, Jamie.

          • Beth

            (am I punished?)

            • Sherbet

              I am, not you.

            • Beth

              (I’ll bring you snacks)

            • Sherbet

              Thank you. I know I can count on you.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Peanut Butter ‘n Jelly sammiches ?

            • Beth

              absolutely 🙂

          • Sherbet

            There’s never enough Cary Grant in this blog, I always say. Well, I never said it, but so what.

            • Missionary Kid

              You can never get enough Archie Leach. (His real name).

            • Sherbet

              Him, too. 😀

            • LongtimeLurker

              You know who agrees with you? This guy…

              http://i.imgur.com/K5DD9HB.gif

          • LongtimeLurker

            He’s so saucy in that gif !!!

    • pluvo

      OT anecdote: When I encountered my American Sea Org fellows, I looked down on their ‘fast food’ habits. Peanut butter sandwich … and why with the jelly? No, not for me. One day I got curious and tried the peanut butter sandwich – but … without the jelly. I was chewing and chewing but couldn’t swallow it and soon my jaw muscles began to hurt and I got jaw-muscle-cramps (yes that is possible) – Then it dawned on me why the jelly…. . Today I love peanut butter and all the fast food; I got converted.

      • Jimmy3

        The jelly helps, but milk was actually invented by George Washington Carver specifically to aid in eating peanut butter sandwiches. That was its original purpose.

        • Sherbet

          That’s a hypothesis worthy of lrh.

          • Jimmy3

            *waving hand in a circular fashion*

            you are not getting sleepy. you are not getting sleepy at all. you are wide awake. but your jaw is beginning to hurt…

            • Sherbet

              I have the compulsion to stab a tomato…

            • daisy

              The tomato needs help, maybe auditing

            • Sherbet

              Does it have a bank account?

            • daisy

              You can always top me. Fist in the air Damn you Sherbet

            • Sherbet

              I’m sorry. It isn’t true, though. You often top me.

            • Jimmy3

              Engrams from when it was a seed in a Taco Bell chalupa. That’s all.

      • villagedianne

        Only mad dogs and Englishmen eat peanut butter without jelly.

        • pluvo

          Tks – I’m not an Englishman … lol.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        There is a no-stick version of the peanut butter sandwich. It’s made with peanut butter and mayonnaise. They are popular in the south, I understand.

        • Draco

          That just sounds revolting. I like them both but not at the same time.

          • Rasha

            As a kid, when my parents made something consisting of ingredients I like separately, but not together, or when certain foods got mixed on my plate (I’m a selective food-divider), they’d say, “It’s all going to the same place!”, to which I would reply (in my head), “Sure, but it has to go through my mouth, first!”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              You can say that again!

            • Rasha

              As a kid, whe— hey…. did they change something in the Matrix again?

            • LongtimeLurker

              I so would have done what you just did…

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Pay no attention to the glitch. It’s just deja vue.

          • Robert Eckert

            Our term for foods that shouldn’t mix is “ketchup on ice cream”

            • Draco

              Yuk!

        • Rasha

          Peanut butter and banana slices. (drops mic)

        • Rasha

          Comment moved down to Draco’s comment. Still relevant, I just wasn’t looking…..

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            You can say that again!

          • Draco

            Exactly!!

        • Sandy

          I’m in MN – and I attest – delish

      • Draco

        We call it peanut butter and jam here. Loved it as a kid – still love it.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Alright I just read pluvo’s original comment and all the responses.

        What is going on? Is it only Australians who can hack a simple peanut butter sandwich?

        Heck, I make ’em without butter or margarine.

        Give me an unsliced loaf of bread and two tubs* of PB, I’ll hollow that bad boy out, fill it up (with my hands, no damn spoons) and have the thing eaten in under 10 minutes.

        I’ll video it and post it here if you like.

        In fact…nobody bother answering.

        I’m going to the convenience store right now. Video will be up in an hour.

        pffft

        *3 tubs. 10. I don’t care. Bring it on.

        • pluvo

          You guys down under are crazy. But I like it.

    • Can’t have PB&J without milk!
      F5

    • Chee Chalker
  • Sibs

    I don’t think Shelly will ever want to leave the base. But I do think the meme of “Where’s Shelly” should be promulgated as exes-to-be raise their heads out of the sand and wonder how their exalted leader is the kind of person who would ship his wife off like that. And hopefully they’ll subsequently find that that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    • Sherbet

      I think Shelly’s disappearance suggests (to a scientologist) her dedicated service in serving the church and the planet. I’m not sure a true sci would interpret her absence as cob’s doing.

      • Sibs

        You don’t think his 2-D-ing would raise any suspicions either? If indeed he is still 2-D-ing Lou.

        (I had to put the dashes in there because otherwise it read to me as “Two-Ding”… as in “Ding Ding!”)

        • Sherbet

          That’s a good question. I wonder how many loyal scientologists know about or see Lou, though? Any recently-out scientologists want to answer Sibs’ and my question?

        • Draco

          I reckon they might be ok with him “disciplining” his wife because she obviously must have done something very bad to be in the position she’s in. BUT – the scene with Lou? That is something different. Considering the run-around they get regarding their own 2D peccadilloes during their sec-checks, they might not be so quick to justify that one. I am sure they would much rather he divorce Shelly (her being so bad and all) and marry Lou and keep it on the up & up. Otherwise he just looks like a hypocrite. But I am sure that majority of scilons have no idea about his scene with Lou.

        • jazzlover

          2-D-ing? You romantic fool, you 🙂

      • Ding! Ding! Ding!

      • richelieu jr

        Unless the see the Diminutive Meddler COBnoodling with his ‘Mouthpiece’…

        • Sherbet

          But most don’t, do they?

    • Bleuler

      But she’s not missing 🙂

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJSxyl66G7w

      • jazzlover

        roflmao

      • beauty for ashes

        I forgot how awesome this was! Thanks.

  • Mark

    What intrigues me is how Shelly and Shortarse hooked up; it doesn’t take GAT Phase 2 superpowers to guess it wasn’t exactly love’s young dream, even from the very start. (Erfrischen mit a schwig of schnapps):

  • Shelly being missing should be reported to a police force without known ties to the RCOS, like say the one which covers the compound where she is, and they should be given the information that Tony has reported here, along with a basic primer on the RCOS.

  • RadioPaul1

    Cannot the state police investigate this if the detective at the county level has a clear conflict of intrest? And cannot someone file a FOIA request for the call log and police report? I understand that once a case is closed it must be released under FOIA

    • Sherbet

      Go for it, RadioPaul. You’ve got the credentials.

  • Missionary Kid

    This probably has been reported already. Headline:
    Leah Remini Baptizes Daughter, Celebrates ‘New Beginnings’ After Leaving Church Of Scientology
    http://www.hngn.com/articles/126783/20150906/leah-remini-baptizes-daughter-celebrates-new-beginnings-leaving-church-scientology.htm

    • ze moo

      Several stories are talking about the death threats that $cienoland received about Miscavage. And another one tried the ‘Tom Cruise is leaving $cientology for Suri’ angle.

      Going Clear is no out on DVD. Use the Amazon link above to order it if you will.

      http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/69672/going-clear-scientology-and-the-prison-of-belief-the-hbo-special/

      Don’t use the Amazon link in the review, use the one at the top of the page.

      Happy Day of Labor to all……

    • MarcabExpat

      They all look so happy. They look like an actual functioning family now, not just performers posing as a family.

  • ze moo

    Shelly is locked up the ‘prison of her own mind’. Unless she takes those steps to escape or get help, she will always be in that ‘prison’. Sad….But it does show how running around after Lroon and then Miscavage, left her in a mental state that is very hard to escape.

  • outraged

    In the real world, this would be a crime. Kidnapping. Holding someone hostage. Spousal abuse. False imprisonment. Emotional abuse.

    Who knows if the LA cops actually saw her. And even if they did, she could have been coerced into saying whatever it was she did say. It is beyond my understanding that no one else has been able to see Shelly. Are these gates protected by some invisible unbreakable force? There MUST be some lawyer, some official somewhere who can get this woman to a private room and find out what the hell is actually going on.

    • daisy

      I think they are tied by the same rules , as say a battered woman. If the woman will not press charges, they cannot pursue it. Maybe the lawyers, can weigh in here, but I do believe that if there is credible evidence they can charge the perpetrator. You cannot see emotional abuse, however.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Not gonna happen. As Tom DeVocht stated about The Hole and The RPF– if the Authorities took each one into a private room, each would state they are there willingly.

      • outraged

        What if Leah was in the room with her as well?

        • MaxSpaceman

          George Orwell would very likely posit that Shelly would most likely come up with the $cientology version of, “Get thee behind me, Satan!”

          • outraged

            You never know. Maybe she has had enuf already. There certainly have been members held in the hole who WOULD have yelled to the heavens to get them outta there if they had been given the chance. Perhaps Shelly has finally had enough. We will never know unless someone gets in that place and talks to her. Someone with a heart and a mind and a willingness to do the the right thing no matter what.

            Some facades are easily crushed once one small pebble falls to the ground.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Tom, who was in the Hole, stated categorically that each one confronted would say, Here willingly. So, from a witness, no one would’ve yelled to get them outta there. eTA: the couple who would were already drinking bleach or doing whatever to get thrown out.

            • outraged

              I understand. I’ve been in the belly of the beast before.
              I also left.

        • Draco

          Sadly, she would probably shun her.

          • outraged

            That is very sad.

      • pluvo

        Yes and Mike Rinder said the same:
        “I told them they’d make idiots of themselves,” Rinder says. “Everyone there would say they were happy to be there and that Miscavige was the greatest guy in the world.”

        http://www.villagevoice.com/news/fbi-investigation-of-scientology-already-over-before-we-even-heard-of-it-6723670

      • Draco

        I agree – even when I left the sea org because it was nuts, I still did not want harm to come to anybody there. I did not want scn damaged or seen in a bad light by my family because I was leaving. And I had nowhere near the traumatic life and indoctrination that people at Int had.

        • pluvo

          Ditto. And I was in this state of mind still years after I was out (and despite having experienced mistreatment).

          • outraged

            Very similar to childhood trauma.
            What I experienced as a result of my dysfunctional parents affected my in a way that will NEVER change, no matter how mindful I am, how much Therapy I go to, how many Meds I take. I was scarred.

            I have no responsibility for the harm that was done to me. But I have complete choice in how I react. I no longer wished to be abused. But in the midst of that horror, I had no idea there was a choice.

            And neither does Shelly.

            • daisy

              Beautiful sentiment.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              I’m so sorry that happened to you. I think it goes a long way towards explaining your compassionate nature. x

            • outraged

              That is very sweet to say. :-}

              It is nature and nurture though, which is why two of my siblings are lagging behind in the compassionate gene.

            • Baby

              I admire your strength Outraged. You truly are a survivor.

            • outraged

              You too Baby, you too. :-}

            • Baby

              You know I am Outraged.. We are.. Cheers to Strong determined women..

              ” Many of the Bunkers have survived with Half a heart while healing.”

          • Draco

            Yup – me too – stayed on the “bridge” – going nowhere slowly 🙂

  • Observer

    I wonder if Shelly would have gone through with it if she’d known what a psycho Captain Miscavige is. Even if she’s what passes for Scientology happy now up in Rimforest, she had to have suffered at his hands in ways we will never know. Maybe she deserved it. Maybe she didn’t. But her life has been wasted in a destructive belief organization, and that is a tragedy.

    refresh

    • Draco

      What is it with these Apollo people and their wedding pics? Where are the radiant brides?

      • Observer

        I’m wondering what’s going on with Miscavige in the first pic. His clothes look like they’re hung on sticks. Look at his shoulder and back.

        • Libertylover

          They look quite tatty don’t they, probably all used the same outfits again and again.
          He has glasses too, wasn’t he clear then? He must wear contacts.

          • Draco

            He does – he is short sighted.

            • daisy

              Good one!!

            • LongtimeLurker

              The brevity and certainty of your answer makes me think you have seen said contact lenses for yourself…

            • Draco

              I think one of the MRs said so once. And those specs he used to wear had very strong lenses in them (seen in other photos). Either lenses or had the fixed surgically.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Ahhh…I thought maybe you’d seen him up close. People have spotted my contacts from certain angles and in the right light.

            • Draco

              Only saw him in the flesh once – when he opened the Johannesburg ideal morgue. Did not get up close and personal – I had disliked him since the early 80s when he started emerging as a leader and chief dickhead. So I did not join the queue of sycophants waiting to have their picture taken with him. 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              Good for you.

            • beauty for ashes

              Yeah!!! This post needs more upvotes!!

        • pixie dust

          I’m guessing it’s back when he was treated like and had the same schedule as more of an average Sea Org member.

        • Chee Chalker

          I’m guessing the snazzy white suit was a) not tailored and b) not purchased from the boy’s section of Sears (as it should have been)

          • daisy

            lol

        • Draco

          The good food and personal gyms only came later in life.

      • daisy

        Marrying other grooms.

    • salin

      These weddings (circa late 70s and early 80s) seem to show weddings happening in twos. What’s up with that?

      • LongtimeLurker

        Is it to bring more attention to them?

        Look at all the acceptable Second Dynamic connections thanks to Scientology!

        Actually…I guess it’s just as likely that it was to save money.

      • Draco

        I think that’s a bridesmaid – no groom next to her.

        • salin

          The other girl’s bouquet made me think that – but looking again I think your right, no groom, and the bouquet is a tad smaller.

    • Newiga

      This: she had to have suffered at his hands in ways we will never know. Having witnessed both mental and physical domestic abuse, I often wonder this very point. The victim seemed “fine” and a down right bitch to outsiders but what she went through in her marriage is something I wouldn’t wish even for my worst enemy (not that I have any… that I know of…).

    • Chee Chalker

      COB’s hair looks good in these pictures……. That’s two days (in a row!) of COB good hair shots!
      When it rains…..

    • Ralph Hunter

      Was this a double wedding? There seems to be another bride. These pictures have a sepia tint that gives them an otherworldly air of faux authenticity. Like the pictures you get taken at amusement parks in Victorian of cowboy outfits.

  • I really think we should be insisting that police go and check on her. Police who are not in the pocket of the cult. And Police who are briefed on former members on what to expect and what kinds of questions to ask and how to insist on seeing her alone- perhaps off the site. Like insist on her coming int to the police office….

    • daisy

      An expert weighs in. How lucky are we!!

      • LongtimeLurker

        Holy cow. I didn’t realize that was who that was until you said that.

        • daisy

          Now sit up straight and do not say anything stupid.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I need to delete ALL my comments. I’ll be back in an hour.

            • jazzlover

              Nah, man. Don’t do that. Your comments are like nuggets of gold found by the 49ers 🙂 They will go down in the annals (and no, I did not say ‘anals’) of anti-scientologistical history.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Anals. heh

              Thanks man. I like our chats.

    • Libertylover

      I wish that would happen too. I understand how important it is too keep people close. It makes sense that they wait around sick members hospital beds. That would be too much time away from the thought stopping. Shelly would probably need at least 72 hours without Scientology influence to think, probably not going to happen.S

    • daisy

      How can we as a community do that?

    • Agreed. And that both you, and John Atack should talk to her once she is freed.

    • jazzlover

      Steve, I know you’re a fellow Queens-ite 😉 Knowing how police departments work in places like NYC, I’m sure you realize that what you’re suggesting is easier said than done. While I agree with you in principle, how do we (or you, or anybody) find police “not in the pocket” with any sort of certainty?

      • Libertylover

        Why was an LAPD officer involved? She’s not in LA is she? It should have been State Police, Sheriffs or Feds.

        • jazzlover

          Jurisdiction, especially in the US, can be an extremely difficult matter to figure out. That’s not to say that it should be. Different branches of criminal justice seem to take any perceived slights personally. That being said, I think this may have more to do with where Leah Remini filed the missing persons report.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Isn’t it only Feds if her “captors” crossed state lines and the Federal Kidnapping Act (the “Lindbergh Law”) kicks in?

          Or are you talking about some other aspect of the whole mess that I might have forgotten?

          • Libertylover

            In NY State where I live it goes like this. Municipal City cops patrol the City. Sheriff’s have jurisdiction in the County and State Police for the whole State. Feds handle interstate crime.
            An ex cop said once to me, if you didn’t commit the murder ask for the State Police when you call 911, if you did it ask for the municipal police.
            I’m sure he’s joking, but there is some truth to it. Generally the larger the jurisdiction, the more status. City cops are generally the lowest paid and the least well trained. There are many fights over turf, I think the overlapping jurisdictions are supposed to keep everyone on their toes.
            Where I live the Sheriff dept. is the first line as there are no municipal police.
            Hope that helps LL.

            • LongtimeLurker

              That was great. Thx.

              And of course you’re right, I forgot the flimsy excuse to take jurisdiction. Slaps head.

        • Robert Eckert

          Riverside County Sheriff Department is believed to be pretty well riddled with Sci-ti safepointers.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          I first thought it had to be the FBI. When does it become public record? If so I wonder how long?

        • Annie

          I am guessing Leah Remini filed in LA?

    • ze moo

      It would take a judges written order to do that. I doubt that many would do it without a lot of evidence that something bad is going on. As the clams control all info about Shellys situation, I don’t think anything can be done. At least, not until a friendly security guard smuggles Shelly some news papers or books.

      As we don’t know how coercive Shelly’s situation is, her mental state is very questionable.

      • We know her mental state if she agrees to be enslaved….

        • ze moo

          The only question is ‘does she have free will’? She is either stuck in a prison of her own belief, or brainwashed? We know how the clams will argue that in court. I don’t what anyone can for her, except give her options if she escapes.

          But she has to escape that brainwashing first.

    • Kimberlee Esmeralda Kasper

      I don’t know the law in California but I do know the law in Illinois and as a human service worker I do know that if we believe that somebody is mentally ill and you have proof of that you can go in and have that person removed for their own safety and have them placed in a 72-hour hold and have them psychiatrically evaluated in some states. Do they have anything like that there? With all these people testifying, or relaying stories about what could possibly be perceived as mental instability comma perhaps this could be done.

  • salin

    Shelly’s lost decade

    10 years in oblivion
    cast aside in isolation.
    From powerful to powerless
    both victimizer & victim
    Now exiled by her husband.

    10 years searching for her overt crime
    10 years keeping KSW and COB prime
    10 years warping to the tortured mind.

    • daisy

      I am getting tired of saying how great your poetry is. Like Pan, Its getting redundant, just assume it to be true

      • salin

        Thanks, daisy. You helped build my confidence in my poetic voice. I will assume it. Thx.

    • Annie

      Heartbreaking.

  • dagobarbz

    After living behind security blades in the pines, why the hell would anyone want to return to the real world, where the Tiny Tyrant is surely more distressed than ever, and Narconon etc. are under heavy scrutiny?

    Out of the crisper into the fire!

    • Jimmy3

      From what I’ve read of it, I would say she seems content in her place. Whether it’s out of fear or emotional exhaustion, she’s resigned to her happy little mountain compound. Plus, she keeps busy doing Ron’s Work. Have you heard the Good God That’s Fucked Up News?

  • Party Hull!

    Who are his confidantes now? Everyone seems to have fallen foul of him, wife included, so who is there left to turn to?

    There’s Laurisse I guess. Maybe Jenny Linson? Tommy C?

    Has there been any young, ambitious whippernsappers climb up the ranks over the last few years, to replace some of the fallen heavyweights? Or does he simply trust no one now?

    • Jimmy3

      He mostly hangs with Jewish businessmen lately.

      • ze moo

        A Jewish businessman from Pennsylvania.

      • ze moo

        Perhaps Davy owes some money to that Jewish businessman from Pennsylvania.

  • OTD:OutTheDoor

    How screwed up is it that this cult has been allowed to get away with so much crap? How do people NOT see the parallels between this cult and groups like Isis? How many Americans denounce Isis but shrug off similar home-grown terrorist orgs like Co$. Something can and must be done about it.

  • Newiga

    I have a lot of sympathy for Shelly Miscavige. While I understand that she’s done her fair share of making the lives of those who serve under her miserable. I also recognize that Scientology doesn’t exactly bring out the best in people (Yes MK, it’s still the understatement of the year… 😉 ). Who knows what kind of person she would be if she had never been in Scientology or if she got out of the church and spend some time recovering.

    Therefore, I find it hard to deem her as evil/bad as DM because honestly I haven’t got a clue what it’s like to have grown up in a cult and to be married to a psychopath/sociopath (or whatever DM is). I think Karen De La Carriere said it well in one of her videos “The most dangerous job in Scientology is being the leader’s wife (See video below)

    Based on what I’ve read, I see a lonely woman who was sucked into a cult at a very young age (See image below). Not only that, she got thrown straight into a viper’s nest i.e. The Apollo only to wind up marrying the up and coming dictator of Scientology. Talk about out of the fire and into the frying pan!

    I really wish Shelly would get out of her prison (both physical and mental) and tell her story to the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnjo7ozApmY

    http://mypullzsone.mikerindersblog.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Shelly_Barnet-21.jpg

    • Newiga

      PS. Great article, Tony! Well worth the wait!

    • Annie

      Agree completely. Such a sad tale. I pity anyone essentially sold into slavery as a child by the parents you are supposed to trust and who are supposed to love you.

      Even if she was, later in life, a miserable person stuck under the thumb of a repressive and abusive husband, and was in turn sometimes a miserable bitch to others…well, most exes who know her still speak with compassion and concern. No one in their right mind would want to be Shelly…not for one day of her entire sad life.

      • Newiga

        Well said, Annie! Let’s hope against hope that she’ll be free one day…

    • Todd Tomorrow

      She looks like such a cute kid there. One that is losing their childhood right before our very eyes.

      • LongtimeLurker

        That photo of her as a child punches me in the goddamn heart every time.

  • LongNeckGoose

    The last story by Tom DeVocht said that Shelly would “start spouting ‘Simon Bolivar’ at you” which is a reference to “The Responsibility of Leaders.” In this short biography of Bolivar, Hubbard sets forth a kind of “total war doctrine” that the leader and his followers owe it to each other to pursue victory at any price, unrestrained by any normal standards of decency or morality. Hubbard specifically sanctions theft, assassination, kidnapping, and rape in the pursuit of a victory for the cause. It goes far beyond the concept of “I was just following orders” by exhorting the followers to think up dirty deeds that need to be done, and perform them without involving the head honcho. Shelly was trying to be the best Manuella she could, and look where it got her.

    • Sibs
      • MaxSpaceman

        Forgot how startlingly incredible that article is.

        Thanks.

      • Annie

        Great link, thanks!

    • villagedianne

      Ah yes, the pink legs reference. From

      http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2008/09/hubbard-miscavige-and-power.html :

      “He doesn’t have to know all the bad news and if he’s a power really, he won’t ask all the time, ‘What are all those dead bodies doing at the door?’ And if you are clever, you never let it be thought HE killed them – that weakens you and also hurts the power source. ‘Well, boss, about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me.'”

      • LongtimeLurker

        Aaaaannnnd once again, another inept piece of Hubbard writing.

        Why are the legs pink?

        • daisy

          He is a racist.

          • LongtimeLurker

            He SURE is.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Ahem.

          She over there, those pink legs sticking out…”

          They are pink because they are girl’s legs.

          • daisy

            I stand corrected. ( mine was actually a bad joke, he hates caucasians too)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Ahem.

              Lurker stands corrected. You are largely correct. Hubbard was a racist. Now he is a dead racist.

          • LongtimeLurker

            DDD, I’m damn sick of you defending Hubbard’s writing.

            I mean the way you constantly try to push Dan Brown on us is bad enough, but this is going too far.

            • MM

              What’s wrong with Brown’s writing? *innocent look*

            • LongtimeLurker

              …uuuummmm…

              Maybe just mentally replace Dan Brown with someone you don’t like, and that way we can stay friends.

            • MM

              Actually, I was just curious about your take on him b/c you mentioned him in connection to Hubbard’s writing, which even I can see is, well, ‘grammatically challenged’ not to mention the made-up words 🙂

              I realize I probably shouln’t have ‘jumped’ on you like that, sorry.

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, no! I was trying to kid you, I didn’t feel jumped on. I should say sorry.

              Actually, the one book of Brown’s I’ve read had no made-up words that I can remember and his grammar seemed fine to me. Better than mine probably. And his actual story was better than any Hubbard I’ve read (although I didn’t enjoy the way it was told).

              So it was an unfair comparison. I was going for a well-known author with a big fanbase (which I could pretend DDD was part of) but who is unappreciated by the critics.

              And Brown fits the bill. In addition, I got nothing out of the The Da Vinci Code. So there was that personal element too.

              But yeah, he’s actually at least 47x a better author than Hubbard. At least.

              But I’m a horror and fantasy reader who doesn’t like Tolkien or most of Stephen King, so I’m the problem here. ; )

            • MM

              “the one book of Brown’s I’ve read”

              **spoiler alert** If you’ve read only one you won’t notice, but apart from the names and locations all of them use the exact same structure and narrative, so beginning with the 2nd one you’ll be able to spot the ‘bad guy’ after only a couple of chapters 🙂

              “a horror and fantasy reader who doesn’t like Tolkien or most of Stephen King”

              I see. So you’re more of a Twilight fan I suppose… *ducks*

            • LongtimeLurker

              grrrr.

              No.

            • MM

              *OW*

              Well, maybe I deserved that… 🙂

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              But they offer such a gift to the world…!

        • Annie

          Because they aren’t green?

        • villagedianne

          Mongo not know. Must have something to do with choo-choo.

          https://youtu.be/SKRma7PDW10

  • Michael Hobson

    If you see particularly over-the-top attacks on Shelly in response to this article, you can be fairly sure they come from David “Darth Midget” Miscavige and his mindless OSA Internet Unit minions. 😉

    • daisy

      It is sad that we have to mind that.

    • pluvo

      I didn’t see any over-the-top attacks on Shelly here. Did I miss something or are you predicting it?

      • MaxSpaceman

        Predicting

      • Michael Hobson

        From the website ‘English Grammar Online’:

        “Conditional Sentences are also known as Conditional Clauses or If Clauses. They are used to express that the action in the main clause (without if) can only take place if a certain condition (in the clause with if) is fulfilled. There are three types of Conditional Sentences.”

        • pluvo

          English is not my native language – it would have been easier to give me a direct answer. But thanks anyway – maybe I will work through the grammar.

          • Michael Hobson

            The O.P. is about Shelly Miscavige having not been seen in public for over a decade. Even the people quoted in the O.P. who actually knew her and worked with her mostly seem to be presenting sympathetic viewpoints. The only person who benefits from attempts by pseudonomous posters to make people think *ill* of Shelly Miscavige is David “Darth Midget” Miscavige. Hence my comment at the top of this thread.

            • LongtimeLurker

              It seems to me that Pluvo obviously doesn’t have an issue with your comment.

              He or she was unclear on if you’d seen it happen already today or if you were only saying it might.

            • pluvo

              “She” 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              I…didn’t want to presume that you wanted this person to know.
              ; )

            • BosonStark

              Attacks on Shelly? Please, they don’t want her mentioned. She is a person they will either pretend doesn’t exist, or is “working non-stop” and happily for the cult.

            • pluvo

              Tks for the explanation. Appreciated.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Actually, I was not 100%clear on it either.

            And English is my native language.

            So I think your question was completely reasonable.

            Here. Have a wombat who’s going skiing.
            Refresh

            • daisy

              She is cute, but no rabbit .

            • LongtimeLurker

              I won’t hear that. Wombats are it and a bit.

            • F5

            • LongtimeLurker

              OMG! That’s great.

            • daisy

              It is Oh My Rabbit, thank you very much.

            • beauty for ashes

              47,000 upvotes. 🙂 🙂 🙂 <3 <3 <3

            • daisy

              Rabbits are SOURCE. Hey LL go look at the picture of lrh with the bunny. I was came up with the line in 2 second. and it was my proudest, nobody saw it so I am making you look

            • Annie

              OH MY GOD! Cuteness attack. I’m gonna have a seizure!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Isn’t she great?

              I think she’s standing there because her little feet got cold. But she still wants to look at the scenery.

              That’s my story, anyway.

            • Draco

              Humphrey!!

  • Beth

    From everything we read, seems safe to say that Miscavige is getting progressively worse as the years go by. Meaner, more paranoid, more violent, more isolated. Doesn’t he have to have a total crackup at some point?

    • LongtimeLurker

      Possibly. Maybe even probably. But not necessarily.

      Stalin had some similar personal issues (hahaha) and lived to 74 (19 years older than Ms. Cavige is now) and remained functional. Arguably.

      Although how functional he ever was, depends on who you read.

      • Beth

        good points LL and Max. He’s a tough (and rich) bastard.

        • LongtimeLurker

          He’s no Stalin, though.

          Thank goodness.

    • MaxSpaceman

      With Borderline Personality Disorder or some kind of malady besides asthma, maybe a socio/psychopath, along with a very liquid $1 billion or so, not likely to crackup. Mao didn’t – Pol Pot didn’t.

    • Libertylover

      I agree and what you say makes sense, but I haven’t read any accounts of violence that weren’t before 2010 or earlier. Have you seen any recent reports? Either he’s sealed any leaks or he’s stopped for a while. If so he is going to regress eventually and be even worse than before.

      • Beth

        no I haven’t seen any of those reports from after 2010 and you’re right, he’s been put on alert by the reports that have come out from defectors, so he may have put his behavior in check somewhat. But the pressure that is being put on him by leaks and legal cases etc. has to push his buttons. We’ll see I guess.

        • Libertylover

          Probably gets others to beat people up and watches on the security cameras.

  • Sibs

    My friend was nice enough to update me about visiting DragonCon yesterday. She wasn’t sure she was going to be able to find it among the booths (I did tell her to look for Galaxy Press), but all of her fears instantly gave way to lulz when they entered the dealer hall and there was a large, ornate, CLEARLY all Hubbard booth next to the entrance. She didn’t stop, but she tells me: “It was still funny though because i was expecting it to be a bit more… subtle.” I also don’t think she was actually expecting it to be all Hubbard books. She forgot to look when they were leaving, but when they arrived she counted a few people talking to the $cientologists and she was too shy to stop and interrupt the conversation to say something snarky. Which is just fine – she doesn’t frequent the Bunker and she is a very shy person.

    • Juicer77

      Thanks for the update. I would be very surprised if the Co$ did more than sell a handful of books to lulz-seekers. The DragonCon crowd is pretty internet savvy, from what I’ve heard.

      • LongtimeLurker

        But also, say someone (somehow) knew nothing about Scientology or thought it shouldn’t stop Hubbard’s previous work from being read … he simply has a tiny mindshare for the average SF fan, even someone like me say, who went through a Golden Age/pre-Golden Age reading stage.

        He’s listed on the Wikipedia page among 30 other better selling, more respected Golden Age authors, but in non-internet histories and such he usually only gets a passing mention (often with some Scientology snark).

        And another thing – having a booth devoted to one author (when the author isn’t running it him/herself) is odd and would put people off.

        • Annie

          He sure wrote a lot. But if you extract the Scientology/Dianetics/Mental Health mumbo jumbo, his earlier sci-fi stories were somewhat popular. My father, who read the science fiction story magazines at the time young Hubbard started publishing, remembers them as mediocre but sometimes imaginative and mildly entertaining. When I was a little kid in the 80’s, when part of my family joined Scientology, Hubbard was still alive and still writing. It’s the only thing I find mildly admirable about the disgusting louse.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Yeah, I guess it would be different for someone reading them at the time.

            Have you read the later stuff? Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth?

            I’ve only read excerpts.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Critical assessment seems all over the map for LRH as a science fiction author. First thing to bear in mind is that he was not a”pioneer” in science fiction so much as a mildly talented writer of popular fiction who delved into the genre of science fiction as it became popular. He wrote in whatever genre he thought he could sell. And as he did write an awful lot, there were a few gems. But no one outside of his sycophants considers him a towering figure in the history of science fiction.

            As to his output in the 1980s, he had been almost completely out of touch with popular culture and mass media for over ten years. He was further self-isolated and surrounded by people who either feared him or were so smitten by him that they believed his every utterance was sheer genius. Combine this with a wealthy publication company that would publish anything he wrote with no editorial input, and you have the recipe that ended up with the abysmal LRH novels of the 1980s. They are, quite simply, drek.

            • Annie

              Yeah, I guess I was unclear. I don’t consider him a pioneer and I certainly don’t consider him a “towering figure”. I have no opinion on the writing itself or potential talent (I’ve never read a single thing he wrote OUTSIDE of Scientology materials). I vaguely admire Hubbard’s prolific nature.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Did not intend to scold you in any way. Just a commentary on LRH as writer.

            • Annie

              No worries.

      • Fandom has long memories.
        http://fanlore.org/wiki/Conspiracy_87

        • Juicer77

          O.o
          Wow!

        • Draco

          “In 1987, members of the Church of Scientology campaigned successfully to place L. Ron Hubbard’s BLACK GENESIS on the Best Novel ballot. That was not disallowed — the Scientologists had done nothing illegal, after all, all they’d done is buy supporting memberships to a convention that they had no intention of attending, for the sole purpose of nominating LRH for a Hugo (hmmm, why does that tactic sound familiar?) — but their campaign created a huge backlash. Hubbard’s name was booed lustily at the Hugo ceremony in Brighton, and his book finished last in the final balloting, behind No Award.”

          PRICELESS!!

    • aquaclara

      Nice update, and thank you to your friend! More subtle is not in the tone scale, decor scale or promotional scale for this cult, as they continue to prove every day. They think they have to hit you over the head to pay attention to them. Literally and decoratively.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Well, I’ve never been shy about stopping at the Galaxy Press booth at San Diego Comic-Con over the years. It always looks so forlorn. I stop by to cheer them up!

    • Baby

      Hi Sibs..It is always good seeing you.. xo baby

  • Ten years?!
    Time for an anniversary portrait?
    F5

    • Observer

      Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater! Perfect!

      • I think of it every time I think of this psycho “love” story

        • jazzlover

          And make no mistake, it is “psycho”. It was one of the reasons why I asked a week or two ago, whether or not Shelley is a sympathetic character.

          • Well, she’s a real person, not a character, lol, but I understand your point. I actually don’t care yet. If she comes out and tells her side then I’d care a bit. People who rebel against control — those are my kind of people. Maybe she’s under some hellish ordeal of pressure, but so was Jenna Miscavige Hill, Derek Bloch, Mike Rinder etc. She either likes where she is, her brain is mush or there’s something deeper going on. Till I know, I don’t waste much thought on her. I worry more for Sid and Lori Hodgson and other people who I know are being hurt by Scientology disconnection.

            • daisy

              I agree she is no more sympathetic than any of the victims. I think we care, because she has been a cheerleader for Satan and knows where the bodies are buried. We keep hoping that if one domino falls , the rest will too. It is easier to focus on one person that hypothetical people. My point being made by TO, Steven Wright , Marc Headley etc.

            • Well put.

            • jazzlover

              Understand and completely agree. It is difficult to see her humanity, though, and I realize that may be more my problem than it is hers.

    • jazzlover

      They look like they’re in Amish Country in Davey’s home state! LOL

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      More to this than meets the eye.

      Like so may nursery rhymes, Peter, Peter Pumpkin Eater has a dark origin. The original poem is believed to be Scottish, and involves a man sealing a woman up in a wall to be eaten by rats!

      Peter, my neeper, Had a wife, And he couidna’ keep her,
      He pat her i’ the wa’, And lat a’ the mice eat her.

      Over the centuries the story migrated to the new world, the woman became a wife, and Peter picked up a pumpkin shell in which to “keep her” in style. But the essential meaning– putting away one’s wife– remains there for all to see, And it certainly applies here.

      Perhaps we could popularize a new version:
      Peter, Peter, savage beater,
      Had a wife and couldn’t please her.
      So he sent her far away,
      And there she labors to this day.

  • I was filling the details of the College of Naturopathic Medicine (see yesterday), and I notice that their international address is Unit 1, Bulrushes Farm, Coombe Hill Road, East Grinstead, West Sussex, RH19 4LZ, UK.

    Bulrushes Farm is a common Saint Hill mail-drop for Scientology fronts like CCHR UK and Duncan “Lord Hubhaw” McNair.

    Category:College of Naturopathic Medicine

    • Hmm, quite the complex of buildings in satellite view.
      https://goo.gl/maps/wh2Kp

      • Kestrel

        On the same road as the new Continental Liaison Office and just a walk in the woods to Saint Hill…

    • Juicer77

      Interesting…

    • LongtimeLurker

      OT
      Duncan “Lord Hubhaw” McNair.

      Classic.

    • aquaclara

      I love when you start detecting.

      • I’m not going outside today.

        • daisy

          You need some colour. Get in the sun.

          • Sun is good. Heat and humidity, not so much.

            • daisy

              I was in TO the last heat wave. I hear ya.

    • 9001

      That’s interesting. The current director of that college is Gunilla Gerber. She is also the director of the Saint Hill OT Committee https://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/08655073

  • LongtimeLurker

    This is a great idea.

    Tell me if you or anyone ever helps this get momentum.

    I will happily donate to the Kickstarter or whatever.

    Seriously.

  • FOTF2012

    I was really struck by Shelly reportedly stating David Miscavige had gone Type III. That would make sense. My hunch is that his life has been ruined by Scientology helping him become the psychopath / sociopath he apparently is today. Even worse, he is trapped in the weird world of LRH with all its false promises, demon circuits, body thetans, implants, invader forces poised at the ready, whole track pych enemies, dwindling spirals, pseudo-science, dangerous drug treatments, and so forth.

    Add to this that Miscavige has to deal with Shermanspeak, and he is definitely in hell. Poor guy.

    • daisy

      I think DM has crossed the line. He is not a victim anymore. He is a victimizer and should go to jail for his crimes. I understand how he became who he is. It does not excuse his behavior.

      • Libertylover

        David Miscaviage could end family disconnection at a stroke of the pen and redefine it as disconnection from Scientology activities. He could forbid any interactions or discussion of Scientology with SP’s.
        It would probably benefit the church quite a bit.
        BUT it wouldn’t be Scientology then would it?
        Churches like the Latter Day Saints and JW change their policies and have new revelations, Scientology doesn’t and will be it’s undoing as much as the internet.

        • jazzlover

          The main reason this will never happen is this: Miscavige doesn’t know love, but realizes that, if allowed to flourish, it is the only thing that will ultimately take SciFi down. He is afraid of it. If you think about it, this must be an extremely weird position to be in — to know the power of something that you have very little understanding of.

        • Draco

          He has already changed so much of scn and got away with it. Scientology hangs together on disconnection. If that goes away, so does scientology. He cannot risk letting people see that their disconnected friends might just be well and happy out of the church, even if they don’t discuss scn.

        • Annie

          You end that policy and thereby “allow” the idea that love, family, or ANYTHING is more important than Scientology, and game over. Who’s gonna give you all their time, energy and savings when their daughter wants to go to college? The horror! Or their wife want to keep the house rather than let her spouse advance his case? No no no!

      • dagobarbz

        When was that pissy little runt EVER a victim?

        • daisy

          I meant as a child of practicing scientologists. I have no sympathy for the man either

          • dagobarbz

            Back when they used to call him ‘Enrico Entheta…’ seriously. You can look it up. 🙂

            • daisy

              I will. I lied I probably will not cause I have a very bad memory, but I will try, I lied again, I probably will not.

      • Annie

        I gotta say that while I have a great deal of compassion for Shelley having been essentially sold permanently to Scientology as a young child, and her present situation now…I don’t see it for Miscavige. He has played the game. HARD. The man is a master manipulator and ruthlessly maneuvered himself into power.

        • daisy

          I agree but sociologists ,psychiatrists, and other experts might not. I do not think they would his criminology either.

          • There are some social situations which are inherently corrupting https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-part-4-power-corrupts-the-stanford-prison-experiment/ and a Scientology compound is a perfect example of one such.

            However, some people try to minimise the harm they have to do in order to survive in such an environment (Shelley, perhaps?) and others embrace the opportunity for power, control and cruelty.

            Miscavige’s personality was undoubtedly distorted by his upbringing, but he seems to started out as a nasty piece of work, who is now in his element, lauding it over Scientologists.

            • daisy

              Thank you for the link. I also wanted to say it seems odd to me that people like you, mockingbird etc. deny that you are expert when you are so obviously are. It is in exact contrast to Hubbard, having no education or even common sense and claiming he had. Please send me the link to your sight again, I think I may have accidently erased it. I am computer illiterate. Other experts are teaching those skills. I am a slow learner.

            • I first touched a PC at 45. The early stages of learning are hard – but you eventually reach a kind of ‘critical mass’ and it all gets easier – stick with it.

              https://scicrit.wordpress.com/

            • daisy

              A I am learning a bit. I have never seen so many ,.scio-words and generational words in my life. I haven’t given up yet. but I have, reached a kind of – critical mess- Thank you for you kind advice. I will stick with it Thanks again for the link

      • pluvo

        A victim can also be a perpetrator.
        Also this doesn’t look as if he is a victim to me but more like he is acting out some sadistic inclinations, getting some satisfaction having the power of making others suffer: “Musical Chairs – Int Base Styl” https://sites.google.com/site/xseaorg//musicalchairs-intbasestyle

        • daisy

          I agree, he is not sympathetic. I meant a victim of a child raised in scientology. I also realize like abused children , this does not and should not be a prediction of his actions. He should be in jail, locked up, personally I wish there should be harsher penalties.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Harsher penalties? What kind of Canadian are you?

            • daisy

              The kind who would like DM s balls clothe pinned to a wire with his balls poked by little kids to see if there is candy, but then they would be dispppointed again.I may have to re-think that. I never claimed to be one of those nice Canadians.

    • Draco

      I have sympathy for a lot of people in scn. Miscavige is not one of them. He has embraced his role as abuser with enthusiasm and gusto and by all accounts, has never shown remorse for any of the emotional and physical beatings he has dished out.
      I am hoping your last sentence is sarcasm.

      • FOTF2012

        It was definitely sarcasm.

        In fact, I don’t think Scientology made Miscavige into a sociopath. I think that is his nature to the core. Scientology helped him be a worse sociopath than he might otherwise have been. Ironically, a fair number of CEOs appear to be sociopaths. They can be effective in a way. They lack the compunction most of us have about ruthlessly dominating others.

        Miscavige got himself into an ideal role for a sociopath. He is head of a system where he reports to no one — hardly even the law. He has at his hand the secret confessionals of anyone he would like to intimidate — a trove that J. Edgar Hoover would have put on his bra backwards to see. He has a crude but effective e-meter technology to ferret out any disloyalty, and a tiny but ruthless gulag system (RPF and RPF’s RPF) to send people to. In a religion that claims to fix a being on all dynamics, his best run at his 2nd Dynamic (sex and family, with creativity added later) is to lock his wife up in a metaphorical pumpkin Shelly — and he dodges this because (a) no one dare criticize him and (b) he can claim his vast expansion of quasi-cathedrals is evidence of his success on the creativity slice of the 2nd Dynamic. He has sycophants and followers who have no other options in life than to obey him (at least so they have been brainwashed) — compared to someone in the “wog world” who can simply say “screw this boss, I’ll go work somewhere else.”

        So was I being sarcastic in that earlier post? Just a wee bit and thanks for noticing that it was sarcasm.

  • mikecrosby

    I’d like to know where specifically this building is in Running Springs/Arrowhead.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X
    A quick and slightly late reminder – on the road 🙂

    We take down $cientology bait and switch fraudulent ads.
    Two ways – Flag them (Red-X) and via a complaint to CL
    You will need a throwaway e-mail address to send a complaint.
    It’s easy to do and plays havoc with their ads.
    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are now included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Tick Tock, LilFiveOne

    • Juicer77

      Safe travels! Thanks for the reminder.