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THIS IS THE SOUND OF SCIENTOLOGY’S FORCED DISCONNECTION

Sindy Fagen, photo source

Sindy Fagen, photo source

In the wake of Leah Remini’s defection, Church of Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw has repeatedly claimed that there is no Scientology policy of forced “disconnection,” which compels a church member to cut off all ties from someone who has been excommunicated (“declared a suppressive person”) — even if it means cutting off ties with a close friend or family member. When Pouw’s predecessor, Tommy Davis, made the same claim on CNN in 2008, it was a disastrous move: many church members who had been affected by the policy were deeply offended. One of those was director Paul Haggis, and we’ve heard from many others who say Tommy’s denials helped convince them to leave the church.

Today, Pouw is stepping into that mess once more, and it’s angering current and former Scientologists all over again. Claire Headley responded by showing us the written — and therefore inviolable — church policy that lays out in black and white how families get ripped apart by rules that force church members to choose between Scientology and their reliationships with friends and relatives.

And now, Sindy Fagen has given us an even more devastating example that should be hard for Pouw to refute.

In 2011, Sindy was featured in the blockbuster Tampa Bay Times series, “The Money Machine,” which exposed Scientology’s fundraising apparatus. She described how church members were put under extreme pressure to donate money to the International Association of Scientologists, a war chest used for the church to fight its battles in court and in the press.

“By 2009 she had secretly begun to question the emphasis on money,” write Joe Childs and Tom Tobin.

The series exposed Scientology’s unquenchable thirst for cash donations, and it also exposed Sindy Fagen to the disconnection policy. By going public in a newspaper story critical of the church, she had crossed a line that Scientology members know is a step too far.

Scientologists close to Sindy knew they had a decision to make: disconnect from her or risk being excommunicated themselves.

One woman in particular, who we are not going to name, was especially close to Sindy and had been for many years. She knew, however, that she actually had no choice — if she didn’t immediately disconnect from Sindy, her own status in the church was threatened. In tears, she called Sindy and left a voice message, saying how much she regretted that she would have to disconnect. But with Sindy going so public, she really had no alternative.

Sindy Fagen has held on to that message for two years.

She is only now allowing us to make it public because of Karin Pouw’s recent public declarations that the Church of Scientology does not force disconnection on its members.

Listen to the voice mail message, and decide for yourself.

(We left a message for the woman you will hear. She did not respond to us. We have edited the voice mail only to remove several names said by the woman.)

 

 
Here’s a transcript of the voice mail…

I wanted to call to say I love you.

I’m probably going to have to disconnect, and I’m really upset about this.

I wish there was some way that, you know, you could make your stand but not be completely disconnecting from the church because I know you believe in LRH.

I’m probably going to have to disconnect and I wanted to call and say I love you. And if there’s any way I can find around it, I will.

But, take care of yourself. You know, if there’s anything I could say to, you know, to have you change your mind…

I don’t know what’s going to happen because I don’t know what’s going on…

Anyways, I love you guys, and, you know, if you have any chance to look at this data and reconsider your position, you know, maybe there’s a way that you can, you know, your point can be made and, you know, it can be done not disconnecting from the church altogether.

OK, I love you honey, bye.

 
“She is only one of many who disconnected from me,” Sindy tells us.

“I did this for Lori Hodgson, Cindy Plahuta, and Meshell Little,” she adds, referring to three women who have all lost contact with their children because of the disconnection policy. “That was my whole reason for doing this and I wanted to dedicate it to them.”

In case you haven’t read it, two years ago we revealed that Tommy Davis had been secretly recorded as he put pressure in a young church member to quit his job working for a person who had been excommunicated, or risk losing contact with his family. (The young man refused, and was excommunicated himself. His family immediately cut off all ties with him. Davis has now left his job with the church and lives in Austin, Texas.)

Forced disconnection is one of Scientology’s most toxic policies, and it is helping to drive the crisis of faith that is tearing Scientology apart. Denying that it exists is not working as a public relations strategy, but disastrous PR has never deterred Scientology in the past.

 
——————–

SFViewLinks of Note

Yesterday, Mike Rinder posted a message he received, purportedly from a San Francisco Bay Area Scientologist, who describes a grim scene for the church in that region…

“Most of the local orgs can’t get more than twenty public to arrive for regular events or IAS briefings. We have all attended the (re)grand opening of the Ideal Orgs and, with a few exceptions, it’s the same recycled public at each (re)grand opening. There are many more Scientologists talking about yours and Tony’s blog than there are public on lines, and even those on lines public are reading the blogs, connected to the declared and ‘not in good standing,’ and are simply playing along for fear of disconnection.”

The San Francisco org has had to endure some of the most persistent protesting by Anonymous since 2008. When we visited last year, over a few hours we didn’t see a single member of the general public even go near the place. The San Jose org (Los Gatos) is what spawned the “Squirrel Busters” group that brought down so much bad publicity on the church in the last two years. If, as Rinder’s correspondent claims, Scientology is now “irrelevant in the Bay Area,” it’s a telling sign that the church is failing in a place that is traditionally so friendly to new religious movements.

Meanwhile, over at the Morton Report, Skip Press says many more celebrities have left the church than tend to get credit for it.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 12, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Vinay Agarwala

    The insanity that Scientology propagates is that it makes a person believes that all existence comes from him. In other words, the whole universe is his creation. The family, loved ones, etc. happen to be part of his creations. He has complete power on his creations. He is way above them.

    This faith gives him power. This faith comes from Scientology. Thus, he identifies himself completely with Scientology and follows all Scientology policies and directives to the letter. He becomes a slave to Hubbard’s postulates. Here are the philosophical definitions that reveal the curves thrown in that subject by Hubbard.

    http://vinaire.me/2013/08/11/philosophy-definitions-2/.

    • Phil McKraken

      The Solipsistic Church of Scientology

      • Vinay Agarwala

        Yes. This word is very appropriate.

        sol·ip·sism (noun)

        1. Philosophy . the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.

        2. extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one’s feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.

        .

        • Poison Ivy

          The perfect religion for narcissists. Hubbard was really on mark to target celebrities.

          Personally, I don’t want to live in a world where I am delusional enough to believe that I’m all powerful or even that I have any control over other people at all. The moment I acknowledge that very little of what happens on this planet is directly under my control, and that all I need to do is be the best person I can be and do the next right thing, I can experience what true freedom feels like.

          • i-Betty

            Amen.

          • Robert Eckert

            A friend in AA put it: “The only thing you have to understand and truly believe about God is, you ain’t God. The job is taken, and you’d suck at it anyway.”

            • FistOfXenu

              Seems to be a well known saying in AA. Any way, it’s a good’un.

            • Poison Ivy

              And really, who would want to work those hours? And with so many ungrateful employees?

          • villagedianne

            There are currently a lot of processes and techniques in various New Age philosophies for creating one’s own desired reality. But it is supposed to be done without hurting others or interfering with other people’s free will.

          • Vinay Agarwala

            Yes, that is how I see it.

            .

        • FistOfXenu

          Perfect explanation for solo auditing.

          Solo auditing Para$citology style:

          • Vinay Agarwala

            There is nothing wrong with handling one’s unwanted condition (unwnated feelings, emotions, etc.). Mindfulness (an element of which exists in auditing) does help one do that.

            What is dangerous about Scientology is that it makes one believe that auditing can make one all powerful like God.

            .

        • Once_Born

          Humans can have astonishing power – but the way we achieve it is exactly the opposite of Scientology’s approach – through free discussion, open collaboration, and the experimental testing of new ideas. In this way, we put people on the moon, and bring them home safely.

          The CofS claim that Hubbard passed down to them his revelation of eternal truth. They will tell you that this is why they prohibit and suppress free discussion, collaboration, new ideas, and the testing of existing doctrine. They think that they already have the complete truth of human existence, and that any change could corrupt their vision.

          Despite this, they do not seem to be able to point to any tangible benefits. OT powers are pretty banal, and ‘wins’ are subjective and vague.

          Here’s an invitation to Scientologists everywhere – describe, or openly demonstrate a benefit of Scientology, and I will consider it with an open mind. Until we see something real, we can only conclude that your claims based on wishful thinking, power fantasy and self-deception.

          Solipsism indeed.

          • Vinay Agarwala

            Yes, the way you describe ithumans can have astonishing power. My premise is as follows:

            “My premise is that all reality is consistent. Any inconsistency would come from my assumptions. As I track down the inconsistencies and remove my assumptions, what would remain is an increased clarity about reality. It does not matter what viewpoint I approach with, the personal viewpoint shall gradually disappear as inconsistencies and assumptions are removed. What will remain shall be the actual reality in all its glory.”

            I do not make any assumptions about God. But I feel that I shall know that reality only when I have discarded all my filters. In that moment of recognition I shall be one with God.

            Free discussions and new ideas are suppressed in Scientology for the fear that it may not undermine Hubbard. That is a no-no for the spiritual business of Scientology, because it may cut across its monopoly.

            I don’t think Miscavige believes in any “truth” of Scientology. He only believes in the spiritual monopoly of the Scientology business and the power it gives him.

            The “benefits” of Scientology are primarily subjective and one cannot argue with them.

            .

  • Sam Domingo

    “This is Lori (Leake) Hodgson territory. Many
    of us had children in her school. We know her as a hardworking Mom. No
    one here wants to experience what she has had to. There isn’t one person
    we know who condones what the church has done to the minds of her
    children. We can only think that what these DSAs have done to Lori and
    to their public is making them unwell and unhappy.”
    Liar liar pants on fire Karin Pouw! No such thing as disconnection? Tell that to my kids. Even my 7 year old was targeted. You and your chohorts WILL be FULLY exposed and you WILL pay for what you have done to our families. Count on it.
    Sindy <3 <3 <3
    Go team Lori!!!!!!!

    • Sunny Sands

      Your story about children being influenced at school reminded me of when I was in high school in Florida.
      My friend told me about being raised in Cuba under communism and how she was interrogated at school about her parents’ beliefs. Scary stuff.

      • Sam Domingo

        Yup. Full-on indoctrination. Check out the roll call for staff (doubling as public) in the ideal morgue in London. Or as Mark McQuade likes to brag ‘Most of our graduates become staff members or join the Sea Org’

  • SP ‘Onage

    Oh, Syn…it must be painful losing a friend this way. I could hear the pain in her voice. I wish there was a sign in front of every scientology establishment that says:

    Danger Heartbreak Dead Ahead…

  • LemonLemon

    That message was heartbreaking. I SO want someone to interview Karen Pouw on video and play this tape for her. I would love to see her expression and hear how she explains it all while saying, “There’s no disconnection” with a straight face. The woman on the tape, unless I missed something in the article, is still a member so she can’t spout off the party line about, “bitter defrocked apostate”.

    • Sam Domingo

      Only person around here getting ‘defrocked’ is Miscavige. The emperor has no clothes.

      • Missionary Kid

        The emperor has no clothes… and he’s small and ugly.

        • i-Betty

          Small. Very small.

          • KNMF

            Very small, and frightened. The world is learning about David Miscavige, and they don’t like the little rat, one bit.

            • shasha40

              Let’s hope the Judges presiding over COS’s numerous lawsuits are also getting an education in COS tactics …

          • shasha40

            As in teeny tiny .

            • Sam Domingo

              And he hasn’t got a willy

            • Sam Domingo

              Or is the diminutive IAS eunuch REALLY a doppelganger for LRH as claimed? Hmm. I thought he was taller 😉

            • shasha40

              Yes he does , it’s very tiny, can’t be seen by the naked eye ! Heard you need tweezers and a high powered microscope, it’s that tiny . Lol

            • FistOfXenu

              I heard all his sexual hang ups are because he likes to go skinny dipping but he keeps getting approached by female guppies that can’t tell the difference between his penis and a goldfish’s.

            • shasha40

              Bahahahahaha !

      • shasha40

        Every time I read this line I just think , ” Eeeewwwwwee !”

        • Sam Domingo

          Oops. Don’t look at the photo below then! You may lose your stomach contents.

          • shasha40

            Too late ! :O

      • FistOfXenu

        You trying to put me off my coffee cake?

      • Captain Howdy

        “The emperor has no clothes”

        Same as the previous emperor

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          And nobody needed to see either of those two naked!
          Like, Ever!

          just sayin….

    • Robert Eckert

      Karin Pouw would have to be willing to appear on camera first.

      • Poison Ivy

        Karen Pouw? You mean the human COB dictation machine? Has anyone even seen her recently?

        • Sunny Sands

          I hear she’s on vacation in Hemet.

          • shasha40

            In that case, I guess they could play Tiny dick’s version of musical chairs to see who gets to be Spokesperson of the week. Poor bastards, screwed either way .

      • Observer

        All coached up and camera-ready.

        • Robert Eckert

          But still with the undisguisable thousand-mile stare of the long-imprisoned.

        • Poison Ivy

          Wow. Outstanding!

        • CoolHand

          Maybe the best ever!

        • scnethics

          Amazing work.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Stuff of nightmares, OB! vewwy vewwy skawwy

          • Observer

            True, but from what I can see that’s what Scientology does–terrify/pressure/bully you into speaking only acceptable “theta”, or even better (or worse, depending on your point of view), parroting Ron’s “wisdom”.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              But of course! hence, vewwy skawwy

  • KNMF

    The cult of $cientology is swirling down the toilet. It’s depressing that some Scientologists are beyond the point of no return, and are destined to go down the drain with it. The only relief from the terminal malaise is getting out, and helping others out.

    Shout out to San Francisco Anon, where LOVE is winning. Y’all are awesome.

  • Dean Fox

    From the message on Mike’s blog:

    “Following Debbie Cook’s letter, Leah Remini’s recent defection has given some public the confidence to reestablish and mend broken fences with friends and family who’ve been vilified by the church ‘s MAAs and local DSAs for refusing to participate or for questioning church management”

    This is why more people need to publicly defect from the church of scientology. Happily I’m sure they will.

    • Poison Ivy

      The more public, the better. Shine the light and the cockroaches scatter…

  • Observer

    The “Church” of Scientology: Lying Liars Who Lie.

    So many heart-wrenching disconnection stories. The truth will out, Davey. Tick tock.

    • i-Betty

      Do you keep all your shoops, Obs? They need to be gathered together in one place for all to wonder and chuckle at 😀 I’d buy that book!

      • shasha40

        Ditto ! Ob , you are Shooperb !

        • aquaclara

          Shooperb!!! Love that!

          • shasha40

            Thanks , Aqua ! For only , $900,000, you too can use it ! Bol, I learned that from lrh !

      • Observer

        Thanks! Yes, I keep them all. This is the third time (I think) that I’ve posted this one.

        • shasha40

          Yeah , but your Masterpieces never get old , they’re classics here in the Bunker . Book, book , so when I’m feeling the worst of ” outrage fatigue” , I can look at your shoops and have a good laugh to lift me up until Scientology’s dead and gone !

      • Poison Ivy

        Ditto! Would love that book!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I was going to suggest marketing as a coffee table book, but then realized that would be too tall. How about a bed tray book?

          • MissCandle

            {How can the book be “too tall” if the pictures are of Shortie?}

            • Robert Eckert

              Exactly. That is why it would not work as a coffee table book.

            • MissCandle

              *wakes up and shakes head*
              Thanks, Robert.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I was thinking an oiliness table book.

  • John P.

    Listening to the heartbreak in that voicemail only fills me with anger yet again about the evil the cult wreaks. Of course, it’s hard to get properly indignant when I am, like so many of us, suffering from “outrage fatigue.”

    There’s an important ray of hope in the juxtaposition of that voicemail with the report Tony references on Mike Rinder’s blog (under the “Links of Note” section) about the sorry state of Scientology in the Bay Area. It’s worth a read, but the most important point raised is a quote that confirms the membership is composed mainly of “sideliners” and “under the radars” who are, though mainly fearful of the consequences of disconnection, still reaching out in some cases to friends and family. Rinder’s correspondent says:

    Leah Remini’s recent defection has given some public the confidence to reestablish and mend broken fences with friends and family who’ve been vilified by the church ‘s MAAs and local DSAs for refusing to participate or for questioning church management.

    In other words, cult members are starting to challenge implicitly the mechanism of disconnection, which is the primary means of control for keeping people in the organization. In Radical, Religious and Violent: The New Economics of Terrorism, author Eli Berman notes that one of the key things keeping terrorist organization active is the high cost of leaving; Al Qaeda and most other terrorist organizations will target family members of defectors. The cult of Scientology is only slightly less noxious than Al Qaeda in that it won’t kill family members, merely make them dead to you if you leave.

    Once people begin to realize that there are enough ex-members out there that they can have a social life that resembles most of the social life that they used to have when everyone was “in,” and once people become cynical enough for long enough that it is possible to boost entire families out of the cult the way Leah Remini did with hers, the power of disconnection will decrease and will be tolerable to increasing numbers of people still in. The rate of decline seems poised to increase, perhaps slowly and undetectably to those of us on the outside, but increase it will.

    • i-Betty

      “…it won’t kill family members, merely make them dead to you if you leave.”

      So true, and horrible, horrible, horrible.

    • shasha40

      Thanks for the diagnosis John P, ” hard to get properly indignant , when I am , like so many of us , suffering from ” outrage fatigue “. You hit it spot on .

    • Once_Born

      At the end of Shakespeare’s “Macbeth” the tyrant’s castle falls to a
      liberating army after raising only token resistance. One of the victorious
      commanders comments, “We have met with foes that strike beside us” –
      that is, Macbeth’s army either ran away, or turned against him the
      moment they realised he could not harm them any more.

      If Miscavige is relying on “Sideliners” and “under the radars” in the same way that Macbeth relied on his soldiers, the modern tyrant may fall as suddenly and decisively as the ancient one – and for the same reason.

      • John P.

        I love the smell of Shakespeare in the morning. A very nice and apropos quote.

        However, it might be the case that Miscavige is not relying on those people at all, but merely relying on his ability to extract money from them, even though many of them are either tapped out, retiring/dying, or are just simply refusing to cough up any more. That points more to a slow decline than a quick roll-over collapse a la Macbeth. He’s got enough money in terms of cash reserves that he probably thinks he can walk away from this constituency if he needs to, but if he does, he’ll soon start running operating losses and will then make even more bizarre financial decisions as he realizes he’s digging into the reserves and the game will inevitably have to come to an end when the money is gone.

        Incidentally, I don’t think he’s going to flee with the money at the first sign of losses; I think he actually believes he is going to be able to turn it around and thus he won’t flee because he would expect more money (and more power and adoration) if he stays with it.

        • Poison Ivy

          “Incidentally, I don’t think he’s going to flee with the money at the first sign of losses; I think he actually believes he is going to be able to turn it around and thus he won’t flee because he would expect more money (and more power and adoration) if he stays with it.”

          Oh, I agree with you here, John P, 100%. I don’t think COB’s in this for the money. I think the money is part and parcel of what he’s in it for – but it’s the POWER that turns him on; it was the power that got him into this in the first place. ( According to one source, when DM was a whippersnapper working for Hubbard in the desert, he had a massive asthma attack and went to the hospital, and had some sort of revelation – I hate the term “cognition” – because when he came out, he said to a number of people, “Power is assumed.” http://www.scientology-cult.com/secret-history-of-david-miscavige.html ) It was always about the power and control and it still is, and I think DM’s whole identity is so entirely tied up with his role as “Grand Ecclesiastical Poohbah Big Being Leader of Thetans” that he will have to be pushed to the very limit to be willing to abandon that identity.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            I read about this “cognition” DM had, but I have not seen anyone really try to figure out what it means to DM. In my experience, such cognitions have layers of meaning, some only clear to the person who had the realization.

            My analysis of “Power is assumed” from DM’s viewpoint is this: 1. Power is an assumption, no one really has power, it is an illusion, but a useful one. 2. If you assume someone has power over you, or power in general, then they do. 3. If you assume you have power, then you do. 4. By consciously asserting you are powerful, you assume or acquire power. 5. When you assert power, people around you assume you really have power so they assume they don’t. 6. No one gives you power, you take it like it was yours all along. 7. When people demonstrate they have doubts about your power or are assuming their own power, you have to forcefully assert your own assumption of power and diminish their assumption of power.

            • Poison Ivy

              Powerful analysis, Michael.

              I’d put the most emphasis on #3 “If you assume you have power, then you do” and #6 . “No one gives you power, you take it like it was yours all along.”

              Which is exactly what he did…and because of #5 “When you assert power, people around you assume you really have power so they assume they don’t”…he still has it to this day.

            • Once_Born

              That is a powerful insight into the way the man’s mind seems to work. It reminds me of same sort of magical thinking that is revealed in Hubbard’s ‘affirmations’.

              Unfortunately for Miscavige this {cognition} only works in the controlled environment of a Scientology base – when he tried to apply this approach to his (one-and-only) television interview it failed utterly.

            • GlibWog

              OMG He made such an ass out of himself ..I hope he goes on TV again. Please..Please It was so entertaining.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. That’s why he goes batshit on people: to keep them in line.

              Power, among people, is an illusion. As long as people fear DM, in his world, he has power. He hasn’t used the other methods of gaining respect, like giving it to others, so once the fear is gone, he has no respect from his minions, and he loses power over them. It is like flipping a switch.

              In the words of Kris Kristofferson, “Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose.”

              That’s the freedom that DM really fears.

            • DMSTCC

              Where did this come from?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse
          • Synthia Fagen

            Fascinating.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I think he will start up a new cult/scam wherever he winds up in his flight . He has his hoarded war chest to fund the startup and the high cost of payoffs in other lands. I do believe there Will be flight only because of the coward trait in the spectrum. He will be seeing subpoena servers on every corner if not already. He already sees enemies in every staff smile.

            • i-Betty

              And, ‘lo, ’twill be called the Sect of Lilliputians, and, ‘lo, ’twill be diminutive indeed.

            • Poison Ivy

              When the jig is truly up, he’ll try to flee, that’s for sure. Whether or not he can get away clean depends on whether or not he as smart as he thinks he is. By that time, he’ll be so riddled with paranoia and panic and disbelief, his decision-making processes will doubtless be very compromised as well.

            • Robert Eckert

              The “Little Endians”

            • John P.

              I thought big-endian was the byte order on mainframes and little-endian was the byte order on RISC and many other microprocessor based systems. Silly me…

            • grundoon

              Big- and little-endian byte order got their names from the dispute between Lilliput and Blefuscu in Gulliver’s Travels over how to crack a boiled egg: a distinction of no real import, yet giving rise to interminable arguments insisting that one or the other is best. Robert Silverberg writes: http://www.asimovs.com/2012_08/ref.shtml

            • Jon Hendry

              Big-endian: 68k
              Little endian: x86
              Other architectures swing both ways.

            • GlibWog

              The SnickerSnorts!

          • Interested

            Little man syndrome. Hitler – Napoleon …… One of my ex’s , even my friend’s terrier that attacks any dog it sees ( now renamed miscavich) including Dobermans.

        • Missionary Kid

          John. After reading about closed orgs and missions, as well as seeing small foot traffic, as well as little or no maintenance, I almost think that Co$ is now running at a negative cash flow.

          NarCONon, over-all is probably still running a profit, but I don’t think it is enough to carry all of Co$.

          The local orgs appear, according to some accounts, to be empty. The income that they used to have from classes that they gave are now given at L.A. or Clearwater. They don’t get a cut of that, so they’re starving for cash.

          Since the local orgs and churches don’t have many new marks to fleece, not only are they poorer, but that means that not many new bodies are being sent {up the bridge.}

          I’m starting to think that most of the donations for building projects are actually going for operating expenses, which is fraud, and that possibly it has been happening for a long time.

          BTW, I saw Planes yesterday. It was fun. As a pilot, I just sat back and enjoyed it. It’s a cartoon, after all. The graphics are excellent. I was sitting only 3 rows back, and looked closely at the screen.

          They had some details that showed they really knew about aviation, but also a lot of stuff that is totally wrong for the sake of the story.

          They didn’t use too many shots from supposedly inside of the cockpits because a lot of people would get motion sickness, IMO, but there were enough to make it exciting. One thing that made me cringe was when it appeared as if wings passed under the “camera.” I kept envisioning it hitting he tripod and “camera operator.”

          • John P.

            MK, I’ll take it under advisement to go see “Planes.” Thanks for the recommendation.

            The shabby condition of the orgs after the lavish grand openings is not sufficient to establish that the cult overall is losing money. Miscavige is looting the orgs (which are individual entities) to keep the core looking fresh. According to TheHoleDoesNotExist and others, the vast majority (possibly 80% plus) of revenue coming into any given org is taken off the top and sent to Cult Central, which is a slow death for the orgs, but would be a fast death if they paid anything like a living wage. The only way they can survive is by constantly playing a shell game with the bills.

            The dire condition at the periphery of the cult doesn’t indicate that the whole thing is rotten. Remember, IAS donations go straight to the core cult’s coffers. If you try to estimate based on the number of “Patronius Gluteus Maximus” or “New Civilization Builders” proudly unveiled, they’re probably pulling $75 million a year from this source; expenses are 10% for the Reg’s and maybe a few points for the annual event and other fundraising. The revenue from core operations (actually doing Scientology, things like auditing and courses) comes increasingly from Flag; Clearwater would look to the out-of-town cultie coming in for training like it’s busy and successful. And the profits are higher for stuff at Flag because hourly rates for auditing are much higher. I’d estimate Flag at perhaps $75 million per year these days, down from consistently $100 million per year for a long time, even after trying to cannibalize the outer Orgs to prop things up.

            Narconon comes in via a separate stream of royalties through ABLE, and I would estimate that the direct royalty stream there is about 10% of Narconon revenue, plus “donations” from staff members and “donations” from paid external recruiters who are Scientologists who make 10% to 15% of Narconon revenue for signing people up via that giant network of sleazy web sites. The other parts of ABLE, Study Tech and WISE, seem to be dying, if not virtually dead.

            I think the Freewinds is contributing only marginally at this point, perhaps $10 million to $20 million per year in gross revenue, but the maintenance expenses of a nearly 50-year old ship have to be mounting as secondary machinery (marine diesels, the primary machinery, are practically unkillable) of that vintage becomes increasingly expensive to repair — you can’t get parts for a 50-year-old central air conditioning loop at any cost, and they’re too broke to upgrade to a modern unit.

            The other big swing factor is the book sale, which Miscavige is presumably trying to reignite under the “Golden Age of Knowledge II” campaign. A couple of years ago during the “Basics” campaign, where they tried to get everyone to fill their garage with the full Hubbard audio and video experience at $3,000 per set, they could have been doing a run rate of $100 million per year for a year or two. But I don’t see any more big opportunities for them in the book sale game any more, so this is probably only marginally profitable until they come up with some giant score. For now, call this one less than $20 million per year, even with the recent “leatherbound Dianetics at $500 per copy” scam, which is pretty small scale compared to “The Basics.”

            All in all, I can see the cult pulling in $200 million in gross revenue (which only includes Narconon royalties and not Narconon’s gross revenue) at this point, and I’d assume that they’re probably running 30% operating margins (i.e., $60 million in profits). From that number, take out approximately $10 million in lifestyle expenses for Miscavige, and a wildcard estimate for the lawsuit settlements in a given year. It looks to me like there are reasonable odds that the cult is somewhat profitable today, though at a far lower percentage than in the glory days in the 1970s or 1980s. That said, it won’t take much for modest profitability to become modest losses and then to widen into significant losses as Miscavige continues his campaign of bungling and incompetence.

            • villagedianne

              The COS is sitting on a lot of money. I believe Debbie Cook said a billion dollars. It seems to me that the only way they could lose all that is if they were successfully sued for millions, enough times by enough people for the floodgates to open and all that money come rushing out.

            • John P.

              VillageDianne, you’re on the right track. A goodly chunk of that money is “on deposit,” paid for courses that people haven’t yet taken. The lawsuits seeking refunds of donations solicited fraudulently (like the Garcia’s lawsuit) and any future class action suits over the money on deposit issue could take a huge chunk of the reserves faster than one-off individual lawsuits over nasty hard-to-prove issues like the Headley’s recently dismissed lawsuit which sued on grounds of human trafficking. That’s why the cult is fighting back so ruthlessly in the Garcia suit, as Tony’s articles continue to show.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              The IAS is probably sitting on 1 to 2 billion just by itself. That is not ‘On Deposit’, it is pure payment for received imaginary ‘status’.

            • Bella Legosi

              I had a thought when I read your comment regarding the Garcia lawsuit and how it is being vigorously fought by Co$. My thought was; should the Garcia/class action suit succeed in proveing fraud and the like, would that fuel possible investigation into Co$ IRS 501 (c) exempt status? I would think so, because of the rules/conditions would be met to yank that status. That suit (should it succeed) could be a big step towards getting their 501 (c) status pulled.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. I hadn’t considered or knew all of the factors.

              Financially, with fewer bodies coming in, and the number of middle class $cientologists who are maxed out, I see the income stream lessening even further in the future.

              I also believe that Leah Remini’s defection will resonate through the whales. Multiply the loss of income from her by 10 by the time the dust settles, IMO.

              On Mike Rinder’s Blog, the general tone of comments seems to be reports of people defecting under the radar or disregarding orders and reconnecting with people who’ve left. Of course, those reports are skewed, because people wouldn’t be there unless they’ve already left or are considering the move.

              Villiagedianne estimated the reserves at a billion dollars, but I’m willing to bet that a lot of that is tied up in assets like real estate, which not only will be hard to convert to cash, but, in the case of orgs, are investments that look like they will lose money if they are sold. The sale value of the orgs is probably at best 75% of the book value.

              If sea org members are leaving or defecting faster than they can be recruited, costs will also rise. If there is a loss of experienced personnel or the recruits become younger, mistakes are bound to become more common.

              Somehow, I don’t see DM changing his ways, even if the net profit becomes a loss. I think that slide is accelerating.

          • coonellie

            MK, were you a USMC pilot?

            • Missionary Kid

              Washout. Didn’t get my wings, because of a physical problem. It took me 2 weekends to get my Private Pilot rating. After flying responsive, powerful military trainers, initially, it was harder to land Cessnas and Pipers. The systems were much simpler, but the lower wing loading makes the planes much more subject to wind shear and cross-winds when you land.

            • coonellie

              Thanks for answering! Hey, washout or not, you get to fly! What could be better than that? (okay, naked ladies, I suppose, but I wouldn’t know, really, I was only told that ;).

            • Missionary Kid

              Often times, flying is the next best thing to sex.

              The idea is to avoid the times when it’s required to have a mandatory change of underwear.

              One flight is never the same as another because, like being on the water, the elements are always different. Nature has a way of humiliating you if you ever take her for granted.

            • John P.

              Often times, flying is the next best thing to sex.

              And sometimes it’s even better. I’ve had hour-long sessions in high-performance aerobatic planes and pulling 5 or 6 g’s while drilling holes in the sky on the edge of stalling can be an adrenaline rush that you simply can’t get anywhere else.

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s the part of Planes you’ll appreciate.

            • GlibWog

              Good Lord.. How come the conversation always comes around to Sex in the Bunker.. Jeeze : P

            • monkeyknickers

              Because we’re all so damn sexy obviously! :))

            • coonellie

              Thanks for the description. I’ve never flown (piloted) a plane, but I was a competitive sailor and there was nothing like being on the water in a small craft, waves building, wind blowing and doing my almighty best to keep from capsizing…and loving every second of it. Yes, I can see now…never quite got it before.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s for good reason gliders are called sailplanes.

              On the other end of the spectrum, airliners are akin to cruise ships.

              Low level airshow aerobatics has got to be like doing gymnastics on a set of swinging rings hung out over the waves by a ship. One makes sure that the waves are small, because they are unseen.

              Flying, like sailing, is all about energy management.

        • Once_Born

          I was wondering about CofS members who are contributing now not because they want to, but because they dare not refuse.

          As the financial pressure on them becomes greater and greater, and the {Churches} ability to punish them wanes, it only needs a few people to be seen to have escaped with minimal consequences to start a landslide.

          I agree that, like Macbeth, Miscavige will see it through to the bitter end because of conversations I have had had with a policeman who specialises in fraud. His perspective was, “We don’t catch them with good police work. That provides the evidence to convict them. We catch them because they are greedy, and can’t walk away from a cash cow as long as it’s still giving milk – or because they have lost it, and really believe that they are untouchable.

        • monkeyknickers

          Do you really think so JP? I am kinda feeling like he’s likely executing his exit strategy right this second. I mean – he’s a coward, 100%. And cowards run. Unless I’m missing something here, which would obviously be par for the course. 🙂

          • John P.

            Yeah, he’s a coward, but I think that has showed up more in his weeding out potential opponents over the years. I don’t think he thinks the end is nigh.

            Remember, tyrants are often deceived by their staff. Saddam Hussein genuinely believed he had chemical weapons and a viable nuclear weapons program. He didn’t; he was lied to by his own people to make him think things were further along than they were so they wouldn’t get executed for falling behind.

            To a certain extent, I think the same thing is happening with Miscavige: his people are feeding him a mess of inflated meaningless statistics; while part of him understands that things are falling in, he’s also willfully fooling himself into thinking that some parts of the scam are working far better than they actually are.

            • monkeyknickers

              Well . . . yes – of course, huh? I wasn’t thinking. Tho I’ve been asking here, there, and everywhere if Miscavige was getting massively prettied up info (yes), I didn’t make that connection.

              I wonder if he CAN actually be caught out, then. Like – sent to the can for 10 years kinda caught out.

              Because frankly, much like Hubbard, he’s an idiot.

              How is that so many dominating dickheads are SO stupid. That’s what offends me the most. Fine – be a tyrant, but AT least be able to complete a sentence on Nightline. Being so idiotic is an offense to all the people you swindled into giving their lives away.

              I just watched it, that interview.

              I. Can’t. Fucking. Believe it. I can’t believe the church wasn’t laughed out of existence during the closing credits.

              If you haven’t seen it . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSjVOXAb8U.

            • John P.

              The amazing (and sad) thing about this is that according to Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, he spent nine months prepping for this interview, spending several hours per day having people lob questions at him. Of course, one can never anticipate the questions one is going to get in an interview. So if the only way you can prep for an interview is to have canned answers to questions, when it goes off the script, as it inevitably will, you are worse off than if you had not agreed to do the interview at all. And that is exactly what happened.

              To do a program like this would take an average person with a minimal amount of media training a couple hours of prep work. Much of that would be talking with the segment producer who’s writing the questions for Ted, so that you can get an idea what they’ll be talking about. Then there are a few simple techniques you need to know to respond in a way that sounds intelligent. I have done enough TV interviews, including with journalists as well known as Ted Koppel and it’s not all that hard.

              This performance just goes to show that Scientology makes you less capable than regular people. So much for the fantasy that you will somehow become Superman if you get into the cult.

            • Grant C

              Scientology: Making People Less Capable Since 1952

    • FistOfXenu

      Nail on the head there John P. Outrage fatigue.

      Explains why I feel like I do lately. Few months ago I felt like if I met Dinky Mismanagement I’d walk up to him and tell him what I think of him at 160 db in glorious boot camp technicolor. Lately I feel like I’d have to walk away or else. I’m right past anger or rage, just cold, like I feel nothing at all for the little bastard, like he’s a wild dog that attacks the neighborhood kids in the park and has to be stopped. I don’t like feeling this way.

    • RMycroft

      Fortunately Scientology has an amazing talent for pissing me off in new ways, as well as pouring lemon juice on old irritations.

      Scientology held a “mock” funeral down the main street in a small town in Ontario for Nan McClean and her family:

      http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/mirror/xenu.ca/nan/funeral.html

      They blamed the victims in a particularly outrageous phoney-Christian deception.

      ‘”Let us Pray for the Eric McLeans of Ainsley Hill, Sutton West

      ‘”God is dead!”, too many today say. How often have we heard this idea from people who place all the blame for their condition of the world on God? How often is religion ridiculed by people who can not
      take responsibility for the state they are in, and decide “it’s all someone else’s fault”?

      ‘That “someone else” is often God himself. For the most part, religions have silently suffered the abuse hurled upon it by the godless. These lost souls withdraw and disconnect from their friends and even their own families.

      ‘”The McLeans of Ainsley Hill were expelled from their Church close on two years ago. Since that time they have been continually unwilling to assume responsibility for the consequences of their misdeeds, only trying to shift their own sense of blame to others. They constantly harass the Church and religion in general with lies and rumor mongering. All orthodox religious concepts of Love and Understanding are being ridiculed by what is becoming a new movement in athiestic times.’

      What a bunch of multi-faced hypocritical bastards! The only God in Scientology is the vague 8th dynamic and Hubbard himself, who has a shrine in every org. Prayers? I laugh!

      Outrage recharged and ready to level-up.

      • Missionary Kid

        The only gods in $cientology are money and power.

        • sugarplumfairy

          And Bart Simpson’s $10 million voice..

          • Missionary Kid

            I put that under money, but a good point, just the same.

      • aquaclara

        I really feel for the McLeans for having to deal with this abuse. I hope they find their way here, where we can surround them with hugs, and maybe some kind of support.
        I give up on trying to watch my language today. F*ck the cult.
        And may God bless the McLeans.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      What’s happening now as described in Rinder’s blog is exactly what happening in communist Cuba. The dissident population is growing and they are fed up with the abuse and lies of Castro’s regime. Now Miscavige’s regime is experiencing the same thing. Stop the repression! The more pressure that midget puts on the remaining few, the more they will resist. It’s over Davey.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I keep hoping that something big will go down at one of their events. Like someone in the audience yelling back at DM and gets the crowd on their side or gets fed up with a Reg and strikes them which sets off a chain reaction of other Scilons holding off the Sea Org members trying to break it up. Eventually, something like this is bound to happen. I just hope it does not hurt too many people in the process. One day, one of the sheeple will fight back before finally leaving. If we are to believe the insider at MR’s blog, insiders are talking to each other, so plans could be formulated. At the very least, if one person does stand up to DM or the extreme, pressure-regging, others would also know many feel the same and possibly stand up for the initial protester.

  • Missionary Kid

    The sound of disconnection is not the sound of one hand clapping. It is loud and clear. You can hear the pain in the recording.

    Welcome to all of you who are doubting the power of LRH.

    Come, join the exit, blow, take a trip on the road to real freedom, where you’r not asked for money at every turn, where you’re not told who you can and cannot talk to or what you can and cannot read, hear, see or speak. Do you call that freedom? That’s North Korea you’re mentally living in.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The 5 Sounds of Disconnection:

      Denial

      Anger

      Bargaining

      Depression

      Acceptance

      • Missionary Kid

        Very well put. I think that those on the inside are starting to go through the same emotional process. They’ve been stuck on Denial, but now are leaving to progress through the rest of the emotions while they leave.

  • BosonStark

    Without disconnection, Scientology would not be able to function as a money extraction trap. Non-disconnected friends would advise you against spending $15,000 on that course package to learn about Xenu or becoming a “New Civilization Builder” donor with the IAS. Then what would become of Scientology? It would collapse.

    So Sindy being involved in THE MONEY MACHINE would naturally warrant disconnection. It was the series that revealed the heart of Scientology.

    It’s not about “helping,” it’s about phoning in a credit card donation in the ride from the airport.

    • jonzot

      Yeah you’d think that would be a huge red flag to newcomers. It would be like a salesman who forbids his customers from publicly reviewing the products they purchased. In fact it’s EXACTLY like that…

      • BosonStark

        Yes, that’s it! And that’s why the Internet spells death for Scientology, because it is a medium that makes writing reviews, whether of a product or one’s experiences, so accessible.

        • jonzot

          I was about to make that same point about the internet – you read my mind! The age of information is indeed problematic for frauds, racketeers, and tyrants. Unless you have complete and total control of a population – like a Kim Jong Un – the odds are heavily stacked against you.

        • Robert Eckert

          What is this “internet” thing, anyway?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUs7iG1mNjI&feature=player_embedded

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I see what you did there. 🙂

    • Missionary Kid

      A bumper sticker: “$CIENTOLOGY” (in smaller letters beneath) “It’a all about the money.”

  • i-Betty

    Sindy is absolutely beautiful. I know this has nothing to do with today’s article, but I didn’t get further than the first paragraph before feeling the need to say how gorgeous she is.

    Back up I go!

    • Sam Domingo

      LOL! I’m right there with you. Just learning to navigate this blog. Fun 😀

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Glad you haven’t given the cold-turkey to this addiction yet. We like you coming around here.

  • pronoia

    Tick tock David Miscavige. It is only a matter of time, and the timeline which will someday map the downfall of the scientology is beginning to compress exponentially.

    6-7 years ago all you thought you to deal with was some mutterings on the Internet and a few loudmouthed SPs who had managed to blow. But then your propensity which began with Lisa McPherson began to get away from you and the blowback began: the media could and did laugh at Tom Cruise, anonymous was born, Mike Rinder blew, and the train really began to run away. yet really all you could come uo with to was invent Karen Pouw build your expensive mausoleums all around the world and continue to enforce disconnection.

    But the truth is out. More and more ordinairy people are beginning to pay attention and it has become common knowledge that you org is nothing more than an expensive dangerous wacko fraud. And as more and more people find that there are plenty of platforms to air their stories and grievances, the courts will increasingly rule in the favor of those who have been harmed, rightly framing what you do as abuse and fraud rather than religion, you will find that there is nothing more that can be bought from the likes of Eric Lieberman et al.

    Yes, it is only a a matter of time and as recent events have shown, it is only a matter of how hard and fast the timeline compresses before the metaphorical Berlin Wall that you surround yourself finalky collapses. No outside battering rams will be necessary because there are plenty pounding away from inside you

    • GlibWog

      Wow Powerful words pronoia. Goose Bump good!

  • jonzot

    What’s always fascinated me about the disconnection policy is how it’s perfectly acceptable for a scientologist to communicate and interact with wogs or whomever else they choose to, as long as they’re not an ex-scientologist! (It reminds me of how many vegans have more disdain for ex-vegans than they do for the average blood-thirtsy carnivore. On it’s face it doesn’t make much sense.)

    But it’s clear why ex-members pose such a threat to this church. They have the power to reveal (to current members) how much better things are on the outside. You’d think a wog had that ability too, but I suppose nothing valuable can be learned from a naive wog. But to have studied LRH and thus, “seen the light” and then reject it (i.e. realize it’s totally bogus) is apparently the threat of all threats.

    Moral of the story: Any group that doesn’t allow its members to associate outside the group is a bad group!!!

    • Poison Ivy

      Ex-Scientologists have the power to reveal that, “Guess what? It wasn’t really working for me, either.” While in, they can’t share their experiences with one another, so no one can sit down over coffee and say to someone else, “Was it just me, or is that OTIII shit Hubbard wrote just whacked?”

      • GlibWog

        bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahhaha

  • Ruby Grapefruit

    It’s amazing how they keep lying in this self-righteous whiny tone, as if they think they’re believable. Everyone knows that Scientology spokespeople are lying sacks of shit, like their leader. Even fruits know this, especially grapefruits.

  • i-Betty

    Heartbreaking. I feel almost as sorry for Sindy’s friend as I do for Sindy listening to that voice mail message 🙁

    It’s clear that her friend is aware of Sindy’s problems with CoS, and she’s accepting of them:

    I wish there was some way that, you know, you could make your stand but not be completely disconnecting from the church.”

    She’s not pounding on her to refute her allegations, she’s just grieving for the loss of an old friend.

    It’s so cruelly sad 🙁

    • Synthia Fagen

      I’m glad that you see it that way and I feel the same. I feel bad for her.

      For what it’s worth, her disconnection from me was done in a much kinder way than anyone else who disconnected from me.

  • BosonStark

    When Sindy’s friend says, “I know you believe in LRH,” what she is saying is,”I know you believe in following LRH’s ideas to clear the planet and create a better world.” While pretending they are finding parking places and identifying people’s patio furniture remotely and that their organization is transforming “the planet” in the process, they are convinced that they have the only organized system with all the answers to bring this about — LRH said so — and that everyone else is a bunch misguided ineffectual know-nothings who are floundering in darkness. Please see the registrar and pay to play this game. What an odd group, really!

  • Snake Plissken

    That recording sounds like a crackhead explaining why she can no longer hangout with her friend, because her crack dealer doesn’t want her hanging out with anyone who stopped smoking crack.

    Absolutely pathetic.

    • Missionary Kid

      Aprapo.

      One pays for $cientology, it doesn’t let one quit, and it’s harmful to relationships.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    For all of you Under the Radar lurkers out there:

    No, it is Not just you. No one is winning. Everyone is pretending out of fear and are in very bad shape.
    No, it is Not just your area. No org is winning. Everyone is falsifying stats, orgs near empty, broke.
    No, Super Power is not the solution. The rundowns are basically low level bridge actions repackaged.
    No, the world is not going to end soon. It’s screwed up about the same as usual, but it is wonderful.
    No, there aren’t millions of scientologists. You are the last of about 10,000 to 20,000 max.
    No, the IAS funds are Not going to good causes. Except for 5%, it’s for your leader luxurious life
    style and to pay for endless lawsuits for crimes and human rights abuses within your group.
    No, there is no worldwide campaigns. There will not be a flood of new business any day now.
    No, there is no scientology empire, there are only decaying buildings.
    No, there is no masses of scientologists, there are only a handful of fanatic salesmen.
    No, you will not lose your eternity. No one owns it, so it cannot be lost much less ransomed.

    You are being mentally held captive by false promises and by terrifying threats of losing your family and friends because there are fewer and fewer customers with cash left or willing to give more, and in fact many of those members are the few staff still willing to work in slave conditions. Sea Org staff are abused on a daily basis and part of the reason why they are behaving as vile and unstable as you are experiencing.

    What you can do: You are the ones with the power. Simply Stop Supporting this group that has gone criminal.
    You are supporting a criminal, human rights organization now. Do not give money, your time, any resources, your labor, your help. It would help all the rest if you announced it publicly, but if not, at least end the support.
    There are so few of you left, that you have this power now to help your family and friends. The organization is imploding. The insanity is not subsiding, it is swelling to frenzied levels. Your family and friends will thank you in the end for your integrity and setting a good example.

    If you can’t do the right thing for your family and friends when it is difficult, what good is all the tech in the world?

    • Exterrier

      just brilliantly put. I will save this to send to some still deluded but perplexed scilos who cross my path.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Me too!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Please do. Tell them This Time when they do their Doubt Condition, get their facts and stats “Without Bias” this time. If they keep getting their “facts and stats” from the same people who are terrorizing them, then they are doing it wrong. Also, me and former family have been in and out and around scientology since the 1960’s, some time in Sea Org, OT, know the history and many thousands of people over 5 decades. I understand their dilemma. I understand they are terrified and why. I understand All of it.
        Tell them there are Thousands out here who understand and are willing to help them through this traumatic and turbulent time. But tell them there is no more time for any more indecision. The internal environment is toxic And criminal.

        We are all out here waiting for you … we love and care about every last one of you, and your families too. It is important to your well being that you remove yourself from this dangerous, unhealthy environment and take in some oxygen and nurturing. You can’t rescue anyone else if you are not breathing yourself. We are here for any help you need. It Will get better. Hang on.

        • MissCandle

          How eloquent you are today, Hole.
          You are making a difference.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Thank you. We ALL are. It’s important to remember that. Every single person. It matters.

            • Exterrier

              Yes, in a way they are PTSD candidates, because the shock and awe factor of what they will find out upon leaving or blowing is enormous.

            • ThetaBara

              Increasingly, this is also my focus. I think the public is pretty well innoculated so I want to try to reach out to the people who are still inside. Your perspective as an ex is incredibly valuable as I try to decide what to write on my signs.

        • Interested

          You have brought me close to tears. I am not an ex but I can, through reading what you have written feel a small portion of all your pain. Bless you all.

          • cicely neville

            ^^^^^^Me too.

        • Exterrier

          Awesome, yes! I have somebody in mind already. She would be a suicide risk or at least severe mental trauma if she came in for a hard landing on, say, a super honest site like this. Actually now, two come to mind. Not everybody is as tough as Jason Beghe, and some are even lifetimers. When it starts to really crumble, I don’t want these good people to,get crushed in the landslide! I guess it would be ok if they kept on in the control of some indie group for a while, if it saved their lives. But it would be great if there was a “soft landing” destination with a support group of truth telling counsellors for them. The main issues will be loss, grief, and depression. Their whole self image has been built upon the hoax.
          It is Truman Show with a bayonet to the heart for some. Is there such a group to help, I wonder? Maybe a screener who finds out what they are ready for, and sends them to the most appropriate Exit group. I bet some have really seen through it, like Beghe and maybe Remini, and still don’t know where to go to speak about it, and have no use for the Indie route.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Steven Hassan, Freedom of MInd group perhaps. Those who are still in Now, yes, I think they need professional handling of various sorts. Many are veterans of this, and others are family of them, meaning raised in it. I think the various forums have incredible value and merit because they speak the language but also give abundant facts as well as shared experiences as well as reactions when they learn those facts. But I so very much recommend they see a professional mental health counselor familiar with cult trauma and that the person visit the forums under the supervision of such a counselor. Just my two cents. Here’s Hassan’s site. I think he would give suggestions.

            http://www.freedomofmind.com/

            • GlibWog

              Excellent advice Hole.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          You ROCK!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            those are speakers to die for, or play for, as long as I get a roadie to go with it.

            • Grant C

              Louder isn’t always better! But sometimes it is

    • FistOfXenu

      I’m glad I came back here even if it’s just to read this. well said and worth repeating. Also worth more than 1 up vote.

      • sugarplumfairy

        how dare you leave!

        • FistOfXenu

          Not leaving, SPF. I feel better some place in the wild. Lucky for me Mrs FOX agrees so we usually spend a lot of the summer in a tent and a lot of the winter in a cabin or a small Winnebago. This past year had to be different but I don’t do good in crowded places. So I just took Mrs FOX for a later than usual summer break. I’ll be here every few days because I like being around you people and I want to keep learning what to do with the cult. But I really need to get away.

          • Poison Ivy

            Nothing like the great outdoors, FOX! Enjoy. Scientology will still be here when you get back, though hopefully, it will be exponentially shrivelled!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I really want to riff on that….but I will sit on my hands.

            • Poison Ivy

              Oh, go on. Give it a go!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              HEHE….now see what you did there. I am trying to act mature in public (more often).
              But one cannot go around throwing out phrases like “exponentially shrivelled” without some J&D charge getting “blown”.

            • i-Betty

              Snickersnort!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              snickersnort? putting that one in the pocket

            • GlibWog

              Betty.. Girl I think you just started a new Bunker sayin.. You know I’m going to be saying that often .. I will even put it in quotations.. ” Snickersnort. ” i-Betty

            • i-Betty

              Oh, I love it! 😀

            • GlibWog

              Yes.. You’ll go down in history… right along with ” BAM ” and ” POW” ( Batman Fame..) ha

            • Robert Eckert
            • GlibWog

              SnickerSnort bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahha

              That is funny Rudolph and i-Betty going down in history. Yep that’s a keeper Robert!

            • GlibWog

              Oh and if I get really riled up… Do you mind if I say…

              Fuckin ” Snickersnort!” i-Betty ( I just won’t put Fuckin in ” )

              If you want the “Snickersnort ” to remain pure I will understand. I will just reserve Fuckin for any other word that may pop in my mind depending on the Attitude I’m goin for.

            • i-Betty

              You may even use ARSING SNICKERSNORT if you wish, Glib! I feel strongly that snickersnort is a word for the people and I withdraw my trademark 😛

            • GlibWog

              hahahhahaha Arsing snicksnort..haha Well you are very generous Betty..

              SNICKERSNORT….. FOR THE PEOPLE! ( wow, just like the British are Coming! “

            • Zana

              I think I’ll actually adopt the phrase “snicker snort” to my silly words. It’s quite funny and I know it will be good for a laugh… Even if it is just as a replacement for gesunteight …( or however you spell that)

            • GlibWog

              hahahahhahaa It is silly isn’t it.. Betty started something here.

            • monkeyknickers

              You really are smart, BTN – what is it you do for a living (if you don’t mind answering) ?

            • monkeyknickers

              Also I’m not EXACTLY sure why this made me think of you and Kim, but this is a total pleasure to watch . . Like – I laughed out loud.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipV2u-MxlFc

            • GlibWog

              haha this is funny..

            • monkeyknickers

              Evidently it’s going to be a tv series. 🙁 I hate it when my fave underground shit goes all mainstream.

              🙂

              And the one on Tesla and Benjamin Franklin (PART TWO) is AWESOME.

            • cicely neville

              We know how hard that is for you, BTN. We all sympathize with your struggles.

          • Sherbet

            I’ve noticed your absences, and I’m Not Happy About It, FOX. But I do understand. Man! I do understand. Sometimes it’s really tough to watch and wait. Have a great rest of the summer.

          • Sam Domingo

            Did you turn in a full CSW and complete an LOA routing form? You can’t go until you’ve had a sec check and C/S approval.

            • Cat Daddy

              You Single Sam ?

            • GlibWog

              I think you have the Bunker Confused with MatchDotCom

            • Cat Daddy

              You can’t get a precious gem like Sam on such a site in a million days, just trying sending some lovebeams LOL, God Damned we Anons will keep the tech alive won’t we.

            • GlibWog

              bawwwwwwwwwhahahhaha.. OK I’m laughing.. Hanging up my Fawkes Mask and going to bed.. night Cat Daddy.. More like Tom Cat daddy.. trollin for the ladies..Jeeze..

            • Cat Daddy

              you sexy

            • Cat Daddy
            • Cat Daddy

              Okay after this I will stop haunting you, your honesty makes me cry

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MBx9ecNH8#at=73

          • q-bird

            oh yes ~ find a place that’s clean & quiet & where you can breathe deep ~ find a place with a view & rest easy ~

          • richelieu jr

            I’m on vacation as well, FoX, and all the better fort (though I cannot seem to resist popping in once a week or so…)

            Trying to deal with Identity Theft and menacing lettres, creepy people talking to neighbours, our landlord, etc… All of which, I hâte to say, seems completely unrelated to Scientology and all that nonsense…

            Vive la France! I like 5 weeks of paid vacation!

    • Sunny Sands

      32 up votes in 33 minutes, maybe a record!

      • Sam Domingo

        Truth is popular around here. How ’bout some down votes OSA?

        • Sam Domingo

          Sound familiar?

      • i-Betty

        I was watching the votes ping upwards at a rate of knots. Well deserved 🙂

    • Poison Ivy

      Great, Hole. I love the opening especially: “No, it is Not Just You.”

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I’ll be printing that out and putting it up around the local cult office.

    • Sherbet

      Brava, brava, TheHole.

    • GlibWog

      Brilliant..Absolutely Brilliant. Standing Ovation for expressing what The Underground is all about.

    • aquaclara

      Adding my tremendous thanks here, Hole. This is excellent.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Awesome Braveheart speech! From your lips to God’s ears.

    • Missionary Kid

      THDN, you’ve summarized the essence of Co$ weakness very well.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      All those guest votes are making me giddy with joy!!!

      • Robert Eckert

        And a downer!

    • DeElizabethan

      This makes a good tweet.

    • Mark

      Goodness me – you’ve attracted an entire Invisible College, THDNE! Never thought there were that many “listeners-in”.

    • DavidaRochelle

      Has this been linked on this site?

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientology

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Don’t know how, but if you are able to, fine by me.

      • DeElizabethan

        Wow! I hadn’t seen that site and it’s Loaded with information and concise, especially for a new person. Thanks David

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Thanks THDNE!

    • cicely neville

      WHO was the lowlife scum that gave a down arrow? Trollperson, welcome. May what you read here do you good. We are your friends.

    • ThetaBara

      Yep. You can just walk away. Don’t route out, just blow. All they’re going to do is try to get more money out of you and lean on you to stay in. Also: “Freeloader Debt” is NOT legally enforceable!
      You don’t have to give them anything more!
      You can choose your friends. No one can deny you your eternity. Come out and be free!

    • lisacarolfremont

      HoleDNE: Thank you for reminding us that while it’s difficult to make tough life choices it’s not impossible to do the right thing for ourselves and loved ones. I love your words so much.

      From past experience, I know that fear is a powerful emotion and it can immobilize our ability to make critical decisions and keep us trapped in a hell of our own choosing. Each day in fear is a day wasted wondering and agonizing about how afraid we are to leave.

      Realizing that I was more afraid to stay than leave was a revelation for me. ( not in scientology but an equally dangerous situation) It took awhile, but I finally saw that my future would continue in misery and only get worse if I stayed and this stark reality terrified me and lit a fire in my soul which overpowered my fear of leaving and I reached out for help. Strangers who helped me soon became friends and I live and breath today because of them, God, my family and spouse of over 20 years.

      As for friends and family, and all those we care about, they all do matter and no church, organization, government or any other human being has the right to suggest otherwise by policy, influence, fear tactics or physical intimidation. We all deserve to be loved!

  • Vinay Agarwala

    The Scientology Factor 1: “Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect.”

    This Factor describes the beginning of a BEING, and not the beginning of the universe. In Scientology, the Being creates the universe. Scientology, basically, tells you that you are God. However, the problem comes when there are other beings. Are these other beings also part of the universe that one has created?

    If these other beings are not created by you then how do they relate to you? If they relate to you in some manner then you and these beings are part of a “super-universe” that should have its own laws. Ah! You say, “That is the universe of Theta.”

    Does that mean that you are part of the universe of theta, but the universe you create is the MEST universe?

    “No,” you say, “I have my own universe of Theta. The MEST universe comes from agreement with other beings.”

    Ah! But this MEST universe is bad. It is out to get you. So, one should not go into agreement with other beings, because that undermines your causativeness.

    “No,” you say, “Unenturbulated MEST is OK.”

    Ah! So you should be in agreement with other beings in such a way that no enturbulation occurs. That means, all beings must be on the same wave-length. But that would mean merging into a single being. What happens to you, then?

    Scientology reminds me of the Borg assimilation of Star Trek.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)

    .

    • sugarplumfairy

      I think I understand and agree with what you say.. But I’m not 100% sure.. I hope you have made your way out with your loved ones and are free and happy..

      • Vinay Agarwala

        Well, I was single when I was in Scientology/Sea Org (1972-1983); and all my family was in India. So, I never ran into this problem.

        .

    • Poison Ivy

      Ah yes. The hive mentality. But in Scientology, the single being – the mind of the hive – is 100% LRH’s mind (with a soupçon of Miscavige thrown in, like a clove of garlic.)

      What is contradictory here, though, is this: didn’t LRH specifically say that the idea that all are one (Buddhism, essentially) is FALSE? That we’re not one at all, but (as you indicate above) completely separate superior beings?

      • Vinay Agarwala

        Yes that is the key inconsistency. He equated “all becoming one” to “being one with the MEST universe”. Looks like “all agreeing in unison” would be “being one with the Theta universe.” But that is not objectionable to Hubbard, as long as he himself calls shots re the nature of Theta universe.

        I can never figure out how canTheta universe be separate from the MEST universe. That is an impossibility. Theta (spiritual) and MEST (physical) are different aspects of the same universe. But according to Hubbard, MEST comes from Theta, and it then turns around and tries to trap theta. What is the reasoning behind it? I don’t get it.

        But Scientology is dealing with gullible people who are made to think that God is separate from the physical universe; and that the physical universe comes from God.

        .

  • Krew13

    Are Sciloon members even aware that their donations pay for David Miscmidget to get served luxury meals every 2 hours? The money they’re pouring into the COS pays for expensive, fresh ingredients to be flown into Miscmidget’s base every day so the toytown Napoleon can eat like royalty.

  • iHateDuplicity

    This really is a very definitive statement of where Cof$ is actually at these days. The Bay Area orgs and missions were booming in the 70s and early 80s. Now look at them. Fancy building that stand empty. They will literally argue with you about how having 20 people on course at a time is “doing great.” No auditors being turned out for decades. No Clears as well. Desperate staff making pennies an hour and wondering with hollow eyes why they can’t make a go of it. Having to use craigslist to promote their services because they don’t have the money or ability to produce any real promotion and marketing materials of their own. Sea Org managers doing nothing to actually provide real management but instead rotely telling them to “do their programs” or scheduling endless rotational tours of IAS regges who come and chant doom and gloom until the parishioners feed them money to stop. All the while, their Dear Leader continues feeding them “feel good” claptrap while living the high life on their hard-won earnings so willingly fed over for “the greatest good.”

    What a sad scene. We love what is happening with Leah Remini and the others who have been speaking up about the abuses and havoc within Cof$’s hallowed halls because it is hurrying the demise. But if you look out in the field, beyond the confidential SO fortresses, you see a bunch of sad sacks doing almost nothing to help the society around them yet claiming they are the only hope for all of Man.

    The delusion is so sad. If they would only wake up and see what’s really going on.

    Not long for this world indeed.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      In terms of scientology orgs or, as I like to call them, Ideal Call Centers, It is well known in scientology management circles that if California and Florida are sinking, the rest of the world is already gone.

  • i-Betty

    Tony linked to this article on sodahead a few days ago pointing out that it was lifted word-for-word from one of his own articles. I popped over to mention that and must have signed up to be notified of replies because today I opened an email which took me to the many comments posted since.

    ‘Incognito’ is the chap (or chapette) who published the article and – aside from the fact he pinched the whole story (though I’m all for spreading the word as long as credit is given) – he’s been doing a sterling job of fighting off an influx of Sciloons who are doing their utmost to discredit Leah Remini. I think he could do with our help, to be honest. I’m actually kicking myself a bit for pointing out that the story was copied, because it’s given the loonies ammo to call Incognito a plagiarist, and dismiss what he’s saying about Shelly/Leah entirely. The fact is, he or she is almost single-handedly fighting off the loons with a series of articles, shoops and funnies, but the comments are rapidly being overtaken by the pro-Co$ camp.

    I don’t know anything about sodahead, but it seems to be a busy, active forum, and I would hate for visitors not to get both sides of the story in the comments 😉

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/what-do-you-think-happened-to-shelly-miscavige-the-wife-of-the-head-of-scientology/question-3844497/?page=1&new=1&scroll=1#post_113927657

    • Poison Ivy

      I agree that Tony should be getting more exposure on the web, and that the site is trying to do the right thing, but it’s truly plagiarism to take an entire piece word for word and reprint it a) without attribution and b) without permission. And plagiarism is serious, despite the impression of the internet generation that it’s not. Even on the internet, it’s acceptable usually only to take a couple paragraphs WITH attribution. Otherwise, there should be a footnote reading, “Reprinted by permission” with a date and link to the Bunker.

      As a writer myself, I would not support that site unless the proprieter does the right thing and either gets Tony’s full permission to reprint (with links and attributions) or takes down Tony’s piece or applies it (again,with attribution) per conventional fair use protocols.

      • i-Betty

        I 100% agree.

        • Poison Ivy

          If you know the blog’s proprieter, perhaps you could give his conscience a little goosing. Or as Tom Cruise would say, “Put his ethics in, man!”

          • i-Betty

            On August 5th I posted this on his page:

            “Credit where credit’s due: Tony Ortega of tonyortega.org (ex-editor Village Voice) originally wrote this article. Not that I have any problems with the article being shared; the more people who are talking about this subject the better, imo. Just thought Tony should be credited. Thanks. :)”

            It got a few upvotes and JCD posted: “Thanks for the info. Credit where credit’s due, I agree.”

            Incognito then replied with some shoops and gifs, but hasn’t, as yet, cleared up the authorship in the article itself. However, in other stories posted under his name he does credit Tony.

            As an aside, Boris D posted:

            “L Ron Hubbard went to his cupboard To write a sci-fi tale.
            He said, “Let me try this. Some fools will buy this.”
            And made it religion for sale.

            True story.
            I don’t know why he went to the cupboard first. Maybe his pen and paper were in there.
            …or his drugs.”

            Which made me chuckle 😀

            • Poison Ivy

              Ha ha! “L Ron Hubburd

            • i-Betty

              Heehee 😀

  • Vinay Agarwala

    Scientology is the Borg mentality.

    “In Scientology, we assimilate.
    “Assimilated beings are THETA.
    “Unassimilated beings are MEST, or, at best, ENTHETA.”

    This a new play from the “Christian-heathen” playbook. You are not going to get rid of Scientology, while you support that playbook.

    .

    • Once_Born

      I think that, in practice, you are going to get rid of Scientology without addressing its {philosophy}in depth – because it is terrible philosophy which does not stand up to the most cursory open examination.

      What sustains the CofS is not Hubbard’s writings but the real-world use of isolation, social pressure, coercion and corrupt influence, all backed up by lots of money.

      As you said yourself, earlier, Scientology + solipsism, and that idea has only endured to the present day because as an example of a particular type of faulty and fruitless thinking.

      • Vinay Agarwala

        The power of Scientology comes from the gullibility (capability to be hypnotized) of the humans. This power has been in the making for a much longer period than the publication of Dianetics in 1950. This power has been in the making for a long, long time. Hubbard simply capitalized on it.

        Hubbard was a very smart con man. He was intelligent, no doubt. But his confidence game falls apart when one examines it closely.

        .

        • Once_Born

          I think you give Hubbard too much credit.

          He operated by trial and error. Eventually, he stumbled upon a system for exploiting people using social pressure and obedience. However, he did not understand how or why it worked. hE and probably believed it was ‘a triumph of his will’.

          We do agree that the CofS survives by exploiting human vulnerabilities

          • Vinay Agarwala

            (1) Hubbard wouldn’t be there if no desperate need to handle one’s unwanted condition were not there. Hubbard’s successes came from the unintended application of mindfulness (seeing things as they are without assumptions) that was hidden underneath a lot of mumbo-jumbo.

            (2) The desperate need to handle one’s unwanted condition has always been there.

            (3) Hubbard’s empire will decline, but the unfulfilled need to handle one’s unwanted condition would still be there.

            (4) All religions have exploited this need. Church of Scientology is simply a compressed, modern rendition of it.

            (5) This need is not going to be handled by any religion but by the psychology of mindfulness.

            (6) Each one of us has to be mindful. Earliest teachings on this are by Buddha. But alas! those have been corrupted too.

            (7) But today we have Internet, and it is much easier to research what mindfulness truly is. Go for it. 🙂

            .

          • Vinay Agarwala

            Let’s not talk about Hubbard because he was just a human being like any of us with flaws. But we can certainly talk about good and bad policies, or consistencies and inconsistencies in the philosophy of Scientology.

            The moment one goes guessing into the intentions of another person, there is no positive outcome. It is a waste of time. But it is certainly valuable to take apart the philosophy, technology and policies of Scientology, because one learn from it what to do and what not to do.

  • Silence of the Clams

    ATTN PUBLIC SCIENTOLOGISTS:

    If you are reading this blog and, hopefully, reading this post, please consider the following. As a non scientologist, I do not pretend to know the details of your chosen path nor do I know the things that have happened in your life that have led you down that path. What I do know is this: Your destiny is NOT tied to your ability to donate money; your destiny is not tied to your ability to ignore those that disagree with you or your religion; your destiny is not tied to a physical building or org.

    Your destiny is yours and no one elses.

    Like the Bible, all of LRH’s writings are out in the public sphere. No one needs to tell you what it means and you don’t NEED to go to a particular building, at a particular time to ‘get it’. Simply read it and take from it what you will. Whether it’s a supreme being or supreme tech – whatever you believe – do not let other “humans” dictate what it should mean to you. Look into your heart, not into your org.

    • GlibWog

      And Please Public Scientologists. Just Keep Reading. Research. Study. Process the words. Relax and just read.

  • iHateDuplicity

    Tommy Davis and the official twisted logic from Cof$ re disconnection: “Anyway, I think I’ve sort of said my piece. I’ve read you the key policies, I’ve read you the one in terms of organizational suppressive acts…LRH puts it in historical precedence as it relates to groups, period, not just to Scientology. There’s a reason groups do this, it’s integral to their survival. Groups who don’t do it get destroyed. And it’s just been proven over and over and over again in Scientology’s 58-year history…to whatever degree SP’s scream about how horrible it is, bottom line, it is what works, it is what safeguards the church. And by virtue of the fact that people who are connected to suppressives do rollercoaster, cannot make gains, and are called potential sources of trouble, or sources of trouble for a reason, based on historical precedence, it isn’t a policy that’s going to change tomorrow, next week, next month, or ever.”

    And that’s why they won’t ever stop forcing disconnection. Right up until the day Cof$ dies, they will continue to believe that what they are doing is ensuring their future survival. The morons.

    • shasha40

      It’s working so well and safeguarding the church , then why is it that COS has no one to sit and do an interview ? COS has no ” face” now, their mouth pieces and enforcers are gone with no replacements. Mike Rinder, Marty Rathburn, Tommy Davis , Debbie Cook, the list goes on. Yep, those stats are going straight up and verticle as COS’s are circling the drain . Tick ,Tock Davey .

  • sugarplumfairy

    “…I don’t know what’s going to happen because I don’t know what’s going on…”

    Aaaaggghhhh!!!

    Sindy, we love you.. You’ve become such a friend to us here.. This is why we’re all so addicted to Tony’s blog.. Because of the amazing injustices we’ve seen from the “church” of scientology.. The disconnection stories are re-lived over and over and over again.. And the co$ denials are repeated over and over and over again..

    And those still in, no matter how much they love and are loved, work hard at willingly, and apparently at great personal struggle, keeping themselves ignorant of the truth that is out here..

    But it sounds like there is light at the end of the tunnel.. I hope so, Sindy.. I’m sooo sorry you’ve had to go through this.. But I’m sooo glad you’re here to help us understand it..

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Sindy rocks around the clock and all day long.

      Brooklyn and Chicago Wimmen. Miscavige can’t handle The Wimmen.

  • CoolHand

    Yeah, right. Here was Gary Smith’s disconnection email to me two years ago after I tried to reason with him, which also verifies it being known policy that church members have to disconnect – straight from an OT and IAS Freedom Medal Winner. He tried to sidestep the whole “Narconon isn’t a church” claim, then proceeded to order all his staff to disconnect, in addition to the ones who were known Scientologists:

    “Dear Luke,

    Howdy!
    You know I don’t pull any punches so here is the deal. I have received
    and read thoroughly the hard copy of your comm eve and declare from
    Flag. The bottom line here is that you have a condition and a
    situation with the church that you created and you are the only one that
    will be able to resolve if you chose to. If you feel the declare is
    unjust then contact IJC about it. In the mean time there are
    Scientologists that you are or have been in comm with via Face Book and
    some of those Scientologists happened to be staff at Narconon
    Arrowhead. So how this is going to be handled is those Scientologists
    who are staff here who are on your face book are going to be contacted
    and ask to read the declare. This is per policy how these sorts of
    things are handled. We will not be doing any broad public issue of this
    declare at Narconon because as you know Narconon is a drug rehab and
    not a church but for those Scientologists who are here on staff they
    deserve to get their churches communication about your standing with
    their church. You should not try to stay in comm with them until or
    unless you decide to take the necessary steps to get back in good
    standing with the church of Scientology. I like you Luke and know you
    have created some good products in the past but in the present you have
    this condition and sit with the Church that you need to get sorted out.
    I would love to meet at a
    conference or somewhere in the future and laugh about this but the only
    way that is ever going to happen is if you do the right thing now and
    take the necessary steps to get back in good standing. In the mean time
    I am requesting that you remove me from your email. Good luck my
    friend I hope you do the right thing.

    ML, Smith”

    • i-Betty

      Gary Smith makes me itch in a most unpleasant manner.

      • CoolHand

        It really is sad. This place and organization and all of the “corrective auditing” he has gone through and will continue to be put through may well be the end of him. His health isn’t great and as bad as things are for him right now, they’re about to get much worse, yet he still can’t open his eyes and see.

        • i-Betty

          D’you know something? That’s the mark of you as a man, Luke. You have it in you to empathise with Gary Smith. *hugs*

          • CoolHand

            Thanks. I honestly do care about the people still stuck in the loony bin. It warms my heart tremendously when I get calls, texts, emails and Facebook messages from people who are waking up – not necessarily because I miss them, but more because I know that they’ll be free from the trap.

            • i-Betty

              Hear, hear 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              Same here.

      • Sherbet

        What a sleazeball he is.

      • Observer

        It’s that pornstache of his.

    • Synthia Fagen

      Thank you!

      • CoolHand

        Thank YOU Sindy.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Nothing like a Scientology kiss off with a ML as the sign off.

      Fucking hypocrites.

      • CoolHand

        So true!

      • DodoTheLaser

        “Fucking ‘deluded’ hypocrites”. Hate being devil’s advocate, but I was one of them.

        I know you will understand.

    • Observer

      Wow…he used “Howdy” as the salutation on a disconnection letter?

      • Poison Ivy

        Apparently Gary Smith is the “hipster” version of a Scientologist Nazi.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          You are on fire today. You used Gary Smith and “hipster” in the same sentence?
          Is that legal in this country?

          • Poison Ivy

            Well, the pornstache was pretty hip around 1974. Maybe he think’s he’s “retro”?

      • CoolHand

        And he’s not even a Beastie Boys fan.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I up voted this because it’s a comment from you, Luke.. But I wanna down vote it soooo frking bad.. And I wanna smack the ML right out of him.. Gary Smith is a frking self-serving shill..

      • CoolHand

        I just dug up another disconnection letter from someone back then I used to work with. In it, he wrote “this is not a disconnection letter, but I can’t associate with you as long as you’re Declared”. Scientology loves to redefine things and say they aren’t what they are. I never heard from him again after that letter.

        • GlibWog

          ” A Rose by any other name is still a Rose.” I admirer your bravery Luke. ((HUGS)))

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • Douglas D. Douglas

      “I hope you do the right thing.”

      You did.

      Good on you.

      • TheLurkingHorror

        Hadn’t seen your post when I posted mine. It can’t be said too often, though.;)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          It’s ALL good…

    • Phil McKraken

      Does Mister Gary Smith hold an executive position? Just asking, because he is either semi-literate or you have sabotaged his punctuation.

      • CoolHand

        Yeah, the only real qualification to be the Executive Director at Narconon Arrowhead is to be a full-fledged, unquestioning Scientologist.

    • TheLurkingHorror

      “Good luck my
      friend I hope you do the right thing.

      ML, Smith”

      He did, and we are all thankful to him for that.

    • monkeyknickers

      What a dick. Jesus.

    • DodoTheLaser

      This is just pisses me off to no end. “Good luck my friend..”

      Scientologists are remarkable friends. To no one. Not even to themselves.

  • Patty Moher

    Tony Ortega receives the 2013 SP of the year award. Presentation written by our favorite poster John P. Capitalist. Tony gives a little talk. Enjoy!

    http://youtu.be/N_Fg9Ts1yjY

    • i-Betty

      Ahaahaha, I love it! Patty is awesome 😀

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      You freakin rock woman!!!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Hey, you! What happened to our Bunker Field Reporter at the SP Party, hmmmm?
        got pics? Hope you had a great time.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Yep, I am just too damn exhausted to upload them yet.
          Been trying to get through my emails and keep convincing my boss to give me a paycheck ;).

          It was awesome.

          One of those pesky SP’s Wimmen was going around taking pictures with my iphone…and lets just say about half of the pic’s I have are of John McGhee.
          (This is no complaint, mind you) 😉

          • DeElizabethan

            Yes, the temperature did rise with his McGhee’s presence.

          • ReneeG

            Yes, but can we not tell Mr. G about my .. um… impressions of Mr. McGhee?

        • DeElizabethan

          I brought back a Steven Hassan book and 2 shirts for you. I’m playing catch up. What wonderful, kind and fun lovin’ people to meet and play with. A fantastic SP= Supah Party!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Cooooool! I’m still jealous. So glad you got to go, though (and lived to talk about it)

            • DeElizabethan

              LOL! Me too and tho I had a vertigo thingy in the shower and hit my head I LIVE! I’m too mischievious not too.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yes she did and then do you know she threatened to tell everyone I beat her?
              You gotta watch the Reverend every minute I tell ya!!!

            • DeElizabethan

              Laughinggggggggggg. And it’s the truth- both lines. <3

            • GlibWog

              OMG.. I had that last year.. Good Lord.. Hope you are good to go Damn ( For me it was flying ) sigh

            • DeElizabethan

              It’s been two months now and supposed to go away. Just have to be careful with movement, since it’s positional, particulariy in the morning. More like intoxication for me otherwise and I do have sea legs, so do pretty well. Flying sound interesting tho.
              Edit: Hope you are fine now.

            • GlibWog

              It took months for me. $3,000 to determine it was stupid Vertigo. I keep falling down.. MRI etc..

              Neurologist the whole Shabang. ( Just so you know I was flying in an Airplane..NOT Scn flying.. hhahaha Hang in there. It will get better sigh

            • DeElizabethan

              Hahaha. Went through Shabang too and nice to know the brain is perfect, but I had medicare, so pay little for no real results since they Know Not…! I’ll hang in and a sigh for both of us. <3

        • GlibWog

          Oh that is right..Hole
          Waiting patiently until you get rested BTN

    • i-Betty

      Almost finished watching it, and I did NOT expect to be a bit teary-eyed in places. Shared laughter and tears; the perfect medicine 🙂

    • Sherbet

      Doggone! No sound on my work computer! This will have to wait until I’m home. But congratulations to you all. Keep Suppression Working!

    • i-Betty

      Congratulations, Tony! You HAVE to watch your commendation. It’s one of the funniest things I’ve listened to, and you will be so very proud 😀

      • i-Betty

        Proud recipient of the SP Awards 2013, Tony Ortega.

        It looks like it’s made out of gingerbread. Nom!

        • Poison Ivy

          HUGE Congrats Tony, and the Traveling 3 Knights of the Clam. (And fantastic Dan Shermanesque introductory speech, John P! “In point of fact,” the tone was pitch perfect. ) Looked like a lovely party, Patty.

          Seriously, it really is amazing how far the ugly truth about Scientology has spread in the past two years, primary thanks to Tony (and also the gold standards of WWP and ESMB). It was just about this time last year when I first got addicted to VV after only having dropped in now and then previously. What changed for me was, I started to see some real movement in this Scientology thing. It had been on my radar as an abomination for so long, it was just so frustrating to keep reading of abuse after abuse, with no discernible interest from the public, the media, or law enforcement. Reading Tony O, it became clear that in this wide world where everything seems so unfair in business and politics and in which evil so often goes unpunished, FINALLY, the wheels of righteousness were beginning to turn, at least in this one small area That feeling of hope – that a great wrong in this world was finally on its way to being righted – has kept me tuned in ever since.

          Sure, Katie Holmes began to change things in terms of the general public’s awareness, but Scientology is a rabbit hole that you really have to dig down into at least partially to be able to appreciate – and become outraged about. Tony O (at VV and The Bunker) makes it possible for new people to jump in at any stage of the game and travel down the rabbit hole as deep as they want to go. (Some of us are tunneling to China over here!). Leah’s story is another watershed that will bring new people and their fresh outrage into the conversation. It was a major story to break and it’s easy to see, it ain’t over yet.

          Thanks Tony O and all the exes here who keep things moving forward. Your courage and dedication is amazing. The edifice is crumbling slowly, but the law of gravity has taken over. One way or another, the fortress is coming down!

          • ReneeG

            How can I triple like this comment? Yes, THANK YOU Tony for making this continuing saga accessible to us.

        • Grant C

          Awesome! Congrats, Tony!

    • John P.

      I am so sorry that I couldn’t be at the party this year and applaud Tony’s well-deserved award in person. I was fortunate to be able to contribute despite my absence, because one of my deep undercover sources forwarded me an audio tape secretly made at great personal risk of David Miscavige rehearsing a presentation to OSA about confronting and shattering the “Supremo of Suppression.” I don’t want to know how one of the supermodels struck up a relationship with this source and motivated him to take such a great risk. But regardless of how the tape came to me, on hearing rumors that Tony would be named “SP of the year,” I forwarded the tape to Patty, who did a brilliant job turning it into the introduction for Tony’s well-deserved award.

      It’s worth watching the whole video to acknowledge the work of David Love, Bert Leahy and Colin Henderson in the first half. The second half is the award ceremony for Tony. My favorite part was Patty’s PowerPoint presentation while the secret rehearsal tape was being played, highlighting the points that “David Miscavige” raised.

      Tony’s modesty was touching, and the point he made about being contacted by many other people who want to expose how the cult has damaged or destroyed their families or their lives and whose stories he simply doesn’t have time or space to tell, is heartbreaking.

      Great job on the party, Patty! And thank you so much for sharing the video with us.

      • i-Betty

        You might not have been there in person, John (I hope the family are well), but BOY were you ever there in spirit! You are a born comedian 🙂

      • ReneeG

        Yes, JP, MOST EXCELLENT. Very Well Done.

      • Mark

        Your devastating exposé of how pieces of dull yellow copier-paper are COB’s new super-powered secret weapon in his never-ending war against SP’s, more than made up for your absence, John.

        I trust that your supermodel friend will be receiving a generous bonus in her next remuneration package, for her Mata Hari touch with the OSA goons?

        • John P.

          Yes, I always take care of the supermodels.

          In this case, the “Mata Hari” aspects were pretty low-key. Single males in Scientology are about as sophisticated in the ways of women as 13-year-old zit-faced braces-wearing Nintendo addicts. I believe Katya or Irina or Natalya or Svetlana or Tatyana or whoever’s turn it was this time merely had to endure a couple of rounds of hot chocolate at the Starbuck’s near Flag and to hand over an autographed swimsuit catalog cover to get the poor slob to spill his guts. He never had a chance, and he’s still wondering why she didn’t call like she promised she would. And she was back on the jet headed towards NYC within 24 hours.

          • Mark

            What a girl Katya or Irina or Natalya or Svetlana or Tatyana or whoever must be! Having to drink TWO rounds of Starbuck’s “hot chocolate” (which an acquaintance from the London International Cocoa Bean Exchange assures me consists mainly of hagfish slime and gravy-browning) as well as enduring the hot-breathed attentions of a cloddish clam!

            • John P.

              Actually, she told me it was a lot less unpleasant than being cornered by a drunk and horny Wall Street trader at a house party in the Hamptons at one of our waterfront estates. That’s why we have security discreetly watching the festivities, by the way, since we treat the regular supermodels well even if we don’t remember their names all that often. Traders are pigs. All cloddish, but not clams.

            • Mark

              Very true; and not just of Wall Street traders, but Square Mile fund-managers as well – on Fridays it’s hard to avoid the pools of champagne-vomit in the streets around Liverpool Street station, as they stagger from the pubs and bars, to catch a train back to their unspeakably vulgar Essex mansions.

            • i-Betty

              You have a brilliant way with words, Mark!

            • Mark

              Why, thank-you ma’am. I have a good tutor in John P.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        JohnP, great speech. Love the high tech presentation. I have a serious question:

        If Goldenrod still stands for the Color of SP’s, then what does DM’s CopperRod stand for?

        • John P.

          To explain that fully, we have to do some capitalist math, mainly because I couldn’t think up a pithy one-word reply that was even moderately amusing.

          The current quote for gold is $1,355.50 per Troy ounce, which equals 1.0971 regular ounces. Thus, gold is selling for $19,678.48 per pound. Copper is currently quoted at $3.31 per pound. Thus, CopperRod has a relative value of approximately 1/5,980th as much as GoldenRod. Sounds about right.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            So you’re saying Miscavige is a cheap bastard? Well then, no gold watch when he retires!

      • GlibWog

        I felt like I was right there having fun.. and of course crying.. Your Tape was special JP .. Made the whole award ceremony just Fabulous! Thank you

    • sugarplumfairy

      How does one secure an invite for this prestigious affair? I bake like a rock star.. Just sayin.. (Probably not a very good simile to use.. dont imagine rock stars are very good bakers, actually..)

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        If you burn me a batch of snickerdoodles I will sneak you in, in the trunk of the rental car!!!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Fairies can fit behind the visor! Did I mention the cookies are kinda tiny?

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Oh hell, you and the cookies will probably fit in my purse.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I have my own tiny little Vera Bradley carrying case..

              Ok, back to work for me.. See y’all later, when there’s 600+ comments to wade through..

      • Patty Moher

        Write to me at enthetacon at gmail dot com.

      • ReneeG

        Would any of you guys be interested in a Southern version? Mr. G and I have a lovely place in NC and LOVE to have parties.

    • Mark

      Thank-you oh great Card-carrying member of SMERSH, Merchant of Chaos and Destroyer of all mankind, for your marvellous video, your wise decisions as the entire committee for the SP of the Year Awards – and especially for your remarkable display of PowerPoint Superpowers!

      And thank-you too, Tony for your appreciative remarks about the Bunkerites and Bunkerettes (at least for this appearance you weren’t forced into a suit and tie, so yah sucks boo to Fox and Murdoch).

      The only minor let-down in this whole prestigious gala event is that Patty’s dog didn’t, erm, express a typically doggy opinion of Shortarse Miscavige’s tiny wee cut-out figurine. But there’s always next year, when you will (deo volente) be celebrating the demise of all his misbegotten works.

    • shasha40

      Thanks for sharing ! Congrats Tony you Earned it ! Hip hip Hooray !

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Patty, you are still a rock star! Sorry to miss the Party this year. Love love what you’ve done to the backyard! Hope to see more vids or at least pics.

      What a friggin year this has been! Did you ever think we would finally see what’s happening? Good to see you still have popcorn boxes and golden columns. Hey, I hear Miscavige is looking for a tent?
      Send him the Xenu tent with a bill for $6 Billion. Thank you for all you do, Patty!

      And I love watching/hearing Tony speak on videos. Just a hint. And congrats again, Tony and The Palooza SP’s!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        The proprietor asked about you missy!!!

    • GlibWog

      Patty what a fabulous video. I felt like I was sitting right there with everyone.. underneath the tent. I cried at lives lost and the fight yet to come. I cried and laughed . What an amazing day that you provided for everyone.

      Thank you so much Patty. For all that you do. ((HUGS )) just a Wog who cares.
      PS I wish Youtube had Disq. Poop

  • baddog5623

    Says it all to me! Liars keep getting caught http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9PiN3u0VSFA

    • i-Betty

      I LOVE Radio Paul. Thanks for the link 🙂

  • baddog5623

    I rember when Sparrow got his SP Declare, on camera the staff person said no one in the church could talk to him and they did not either.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I hope Sparrow knows his compassion for his former members and friends, the intense day to day efforts and resources he put into just Being There in front of that org, often with such wit, always with such heart, has paid off. It was Not in vain, Sparrow. The org is dead. Your message was received. And even if not a single one of them thanked you, you know they do. And you too, “baddog”.

      • baddog5623

        He knows 🙂

  • 0tessa

    I hope this voicemail message goes viral. This is the true voice of Scientology Enterprise.
    Disconnection is their tool of mindcontrol and nothing else.

    • Synthia Fagen

      That would be great. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if somehow, someone (it would be nice if it was Tony but they too scared a him 🙂 ) would play that message to Karin Pouw and any other official and ask them to say that was not forced disconnection. She says in the message that “if there is any way I can find around it, I will”. Hello!

  • Synthia Fagen

    Thank you for all the heart felt empathy for me, in regards being disconnected from. For me, it was difficult BUT, this was just one of MANY who disconnected and frankly, this was the least offensive. She was the only one that actually showed kindness and some sincere respect. Most people are not as nice as she was in this situation.

    As she was on OT levels at the time, I am sure Flag told her she needed to cut the line. Family is involved here with grandkids not being able to grow up with each other, etc

    I would have told the whole story but out of respect for her, who actually did not treat me poorly (no matter how bad this may sound), I decided to keep the identity unknown. I’ve held onto it for years because I knew it was proof and I have waited for the church to stop lying and they never do and never will.

    I have integrity and conscience on my side which makes this easier. I actually feel MUCH worse for her. She clearly did not want to make that call.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You are such a good friend and I hope you will be spending holidays and birthdays together soon!

      • Synthia Fagen

        Me too! I called her and left a message on her phone that I loved her and wanted our family back together. Hey, those disconnection demands don’t mean anything to me.

        • GlibWog

          Awww Syn The pain in her voice is haunting. I am so sorry. Hopefully one day!

    • Once_Born

      That recording reminded me of something I saw in a film of famous experiment conducted by a social psychologist. The details are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment.

      At one point, an ordinary guy is told by a man in a lab coat to push a button which, he has every reason to believe, will give another man in the same room a lethal electric shock. The ‘victim’ was, in fact an actor.

      This ordinary guy didn’t want to do it. He didn’t want to do it so much, that he sobbed into hand. All the ‘scientist’ in the lab coat had to say was, “the experiment requires that you continue”. and he did it. Repeatedly. So did a very high proportion of the other participants.

      They almost all rationalised what they did with the claim , “it’s wasn’t my responsibility, I had to do it”.

      Perceived authority can can have enormous power over people’s behaviour. The abuse of this power by the CofS in the practice of ‘disconnection’ is incredibly cruel, not only to not only to the person who is disconnected from, but also to those who are forced to disconnect.

      Of course, Ethical constraints would not allow this experiment to be performed today – conditions were different after the Second World War, however, when no-one could understand why so many good people followed Nazi orders to do evil things. They still stand today as a a warning that the best people can be manipulated into behaving badly – and a way to recognise the signs. It goes a long way towards explaining why good friends who do not want to ‘disconnect’ do so anyway.

      There is other research l(linked below) that demonstrates the power of some social situations to ‘make good people do bad things’, which is also relevant to CofS abuses. http://www.lucifereffect.com/

      All of this research shows that it takes a remarkable person to stand up to the of psychological manipulation, as practised by the CofS, and follow their conscience. You are one of those of remarkable people, and should be very proud of yourself and your actions.

      • Synthia Fagen

        Wow. Thank you. I will look into this more.

        • Poison Ivy

          Synthia, Once Born is referring to the very famous Milgram Experiment of Yale University. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
          Though it’s often cited out of context by both political parties in their various inane mudfights, the truth is, it is a very important piece of the social psychology puzzle that reinforces the view that humans are social animals and we can be powerfully triggered through peer and authoritative pressures.
          I just finished a book you might really like which cites many related social experiments that explain cognitive dissonance theory – “Mistakes Were Made – But Not By Me.”

          • Once_Born

            “Mistakes Were Made – But Not By Me.”

            Oh yes… excellent book, offering a good explanation of why people persist in believing in totally discredited ideas.

            The classic example (from which cognitive dissonance theory was originally formulated) was a small group which came to believe (literally) that ‘the end of the world was nigh’ -and that friendly aliens were about to whisk them off in flying saucers (because they were the only Earth beings sufficiently enlightened to be worth saving).

            When the end of the world did not come about, the theory predicted that, far from abandoning their belief (as you might expect) members of the group would redouble their efforts to convert others. This is what happened.

            • Mark

              The book about the flying-saucer cult is When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter. It’s a classic sociological and ethnographical text.

            • Once_Born

              There is also (bizarrely) an excellent novel based on the events described in “When Prophesy Fails” – “Imaginary Friends” by Alison Lurie.

            • Mark

              Yes! Very funny book. Lurie eventually admitted she’d been heavily influenced by the Festinger/Riecken/Schachter study. There was also a TV dramatisation of Lurie’s novel done by Malcolm ‘History Man’ Bradbury in the 80’s.

        • Robert Eckert
          • Once_Born

            The “Stanford Prison Experiment” (also a classic) is described in a video on the same you-tube page, and offers another perspective into why people in the Sea Org and Scientology bases can behave so badly towards each other.

            It was conducted by the same Prof Zimbardo who wrote “The Lucifer Effect”, one of the books referred to above.

            • Cher

              The “Stanford Prison Experiment” was an attempt to recreate the mind set of Nazi Concentration Camp guards. It worked a little to well and Zimbardo had to end the experiment early when violence towards the “inmates” started. The results even surprised him. I know a few people who had him as the prof and when he talked about it he was always amazed at how fast the experiment descended into chaos.

            • Once_Born

              In his book, “The Lucifer Effect”, Zimbardo admits that he was carried away by the situation himself, and only realised he had let things get out of hand when a girlfriend took him to task. That was when he wound the experiment up.

              I have always admired that admission.

              This is one reason why these books are so important.The best of us can be adversely affected by social pressure. Understanding how this process works can immunise us against it.

            • Cher

              I couldn’t agree with you more. The human condition is not static and definitely doesn’t take place in a vacuum. As much as we would like life and our individual actions to be black and white it’s not nor will it ever be. That is why studies like Zimbardo’s are so imperative.

              I also think having read so many of these studies you can understand how people get sucked into Scientology. I think we forget that all these rules and atrocities don’t happen all at once. If they did it would be easier to walk away from. There is very subtle graduations that these rules and beliefs are introduced and by the time they are fully immersed they haven’t realized they have given up their ability to critically think or question why they have given up the ability to question. And when they do wake up I’m sure it is hard to come to terms with everything they have given up and done. There has to be a lot of emotions they go through when they shake off the shackles of their thoughts and mind. Would you agree?

            • Once_Born

              One of the lessons of the Milgram experiment (lots of information above) is that good people are not manipulated into doing evil things quickly or effortlessly. The process is incremental. In Milgram’s experiment, you start by inflicting a small shock, for an apparently good reason. You only very gradually work up to administering the (apparently) life-threatening shocks, via a long series of small steps.

              You can back out at any stage – but the more times you comply, the harder it is to do so without losing your self-esteem, and the more deeply you have been drawn in.

              In real life, the German people were taught to be suspicious of Jews. Then to hate them. Then to persecute them. Then to dehumanise them. Each step was only a little worse than the previous one – but it eventually led to men and women waking up one morning to realise they had been complicit in genocide.

              Scientology seems to work in the same way. The early ‘courses’ are unobjectionable. Later courses demand more, and so on. The path down the rabbit hole consists of a long series of small steps.

              In Scientology, I think you can argue that almost everyone involved is a victim. The Sea Org {officers} who scream in peoples faces, and the people who have to put up with it have both been gradually manipulated into conforming to inhuman and degrading social norms. Only a small, truly unbalanced, minority actually enjoy the cruelty or the humiliation.

              I do agree that people who have {achieved a high level} in Scientology must find it difficult to cut their losses and leave. Others, who are discarded when they become a liability or fall foul of internal politics, may face an even more difficult adjustment. Part of that adjustment must be to come to terms with all the opportunities you passed up to participate in an organisation whose teachings turn out to be utterly worthless.

              The second generation members, who were recruited at an early age, are in the worst position, as face practical challenges, too. They may find themselves thrown out into an unfamiliar world with no meaningful education, work record, credit rating &c. &c.

              Finally, I admire the courage, resourcefulness and self-reliance of the exes who successfully make this difficult transition, and wish there was some organisation which could offer them therapy and support.

            • Cher

              I’m rather familiar with the Milgram experiment. Most of those experiments were conducted after WWII and social researchers were trying to understand how the Holocaust was able to happen.

              I’m well versed in how the Nazi’s indoctrinated people. My degree is in history with a concentration in Holocaust studies. I know exactly how they made incremental steps in regards to,not only, the Jews but also the euthanasia programs, the forced sterilization’s and jailing anyone who they found as a threat. No matter how small the perceived threat was. And once they were into deep the overwhelming fear that the SS had over a whole nation kept people from speaking out or doing anything about it. I am in no way saying every German was bad or wanted the Jews to die but it got to a point doing something would not only get you killed but your entire family as well. And it should be noted that the Germans did the increments in every count try they invaded so it wasn’t just the Germans who complied with those gradual increments.

              I highly recommend the book “The Nazi Doctors” by Robert Jay Lifton. Lifton researched the book for over 10 years and goes into detail how the sterilization program was just an increment step towards euthanasia and how euthanasia was a increment step towards both the whole scale killing of millions of Jews but also the inhuman “medical experiments” that were conducted in the concentration camps.

            • Cher

              Btw, I completely agree with you about the people who have broken away from CofS. The courage is really something to be admired. It must be terribly frightening to leave knowing everyone you left behind will not be there for you. Add to that many have no place to go and little to money and contacts outside of the Scientology bubble from hell.

              I support group for them would be an amazing thing. Wasn’t there one that got closed down? Are there any under ground support groups to help them get back on their feet or give them a place to stay. I would be more than happy to donate to that cause.

            • Once_Born

              Your book is on my reading list (after, coincidentally, “IBM and the Holocaust” by Edwin Black).

              The “Cult Awareness Network” used to do some support work. It was bankrupted by the CofS through sustained and aggressive legal action. The CofS subsequently bought the CANs assets and ‘revived’ it as a front group working to promote Scientology – the “New Cult Awareness Network” in order to exploit its good reputation. Search for the names of both organisations on Wikkipedia, and you get pretty good potted histories.

              I don’t know of any ‘conventional’ support groups, and suspect that underground groups are likely to want to stay that way, thus avoiding organised, ruthless and well-financed persecution.

              Having said that, Internet discussion groups provide psychological, and some practical support (e.g. ex Scientology Kids http://exscientologykids.com/ ) and have proliferated to the extent that, like music piracy, they are impossible to shut down.

              The best support groups are typically composed of people who have all been in same situation and can understand from experience the issues that are being addressed. Ex Scientology Kids appears to be reputable, and they accept donations (high-volume, reliable web hosting is not cheap).

              Unless anyone out there has better information, or other suggestions…

            • Cher

              I read about the “Cult Awareness Network” and what happened there. It truly makes me sick that it happened. The more I learn about Scientology the more I really dislike them and am truly relishing every victory against them, no matter how small.

              Thank you for the information on where to donate. I think at this point giving my money to people who are already in the fight or to help the people who have gotten out is my best plan of action. Well, that and letting everyone I know what a horrible cult CofS is.

              Btw, I haven’t read the IBM and the Holocaust yet so let me know what you thought of it. In my post to Miss Candle above I told her about a book you maybe interested in.

            • villagedianne

              In addition to legal action, CAN was also infiltrated by Scientologists.

            • Exterrier

              Me, too.

            • MissCandle

              Cher,
              I also think that the book “Into That Darkness: An Examination of Conscience” by Gitta Sereny explained that process very well. Also, it was an excellent book. — originally published in 1974. Have you read it?

            • Cher

              Miss Candle,

              Yes, I have read, “Into That Darkness: An Examination of Conscience” about Franz Stangl and his time as commandant at Sobibor and Treblinka, two of the most sadistic extermination camps. It is insightful but within the Holocaust study world is looked on quite critically simply because Stangl left out quite a bit about his role and Sereny made the excuses for his behavior and actions because he had a bad childhood.
              I think any book by the perpetrators that wrote about themselves need to be taken with a huge grain of salt because they either try to down play their involvement or say they were essentially a cog in the Nazi machine which usual turns out to be blatantly untrue. The one good thing about the Nazi’s is that they left copious paper trails and it has been easy to verify information besides all the testimony given against them. Russia has just recently opened up their files about the concentration camps they came upon and researchers are still going through them.
              A book you may be interested in reading about the subject is, “Masters of Death: The SS Einsatzgruppin and the Invention of the Holocaust” by Richard Rhodes. It is graphic so beware. The research behind it is solid and is one of the best books about the “wild” extermination camps that took place during the German invasion into Russia.

            • MissCandle

              Cher,
              Thank you for sharing your insight and expertise.
              I will definitely read the book you recommend. Thanks.

            • Exterrier

              Yes, yes. I am very proud of this blog today, for the compassion and wisdom shown. Especially considering how infuriating it is to read about all of the submissive compliance as well as heartless cruelty that these misled people get caught up into exercising or blindly denying, out of fear and also hypnotic manipulation techniques they are unknowingly immersed in. That an obviously intelligent man like Rinder was seduced into becoming a monster for a while shows the power of growing up inside a Great Lie. And that same power can definitely crush some nice people I know who need to leave fast, and hopefully will find some strength and support out there to get them past the trauma of finding out their whole life as they know it, has been a fraud, and a wicked one at that.

            • villagedianne

              Yes the control is incremental. David Icke calls it the “totalitarian tiptoe”. Citizens are asked to give up their rights in order to have safety. Yes, I know this is a polarizing argument and Icke is a controversial figure, but I am just making an analogy here. The analogy is that in Scientology, members are asked to just give up their rights in order to have their spiritual “eternity”. What’s a few civil rights compared to being spiritually ok for the next billion years or so. What’s a few friends, a few family?

            • grundoon

              Scientology places new recruits at a disadvantage from the very first contact, often before they first set foot in an org. Within the first 5 or 10 minutes the “raw meat” is already complying with the recruiter’s suggestions and orders, and looking to the Scientologist for validation and direction. The same thing happens when you walk into a car dealership and a salesman takes you in hand. The encounter is planned, scripted, rehearsed; and if you are compliant, it escalates gradually from there (or in Hubbard’s word, “gradiently”). Fortunately not everyone is susceptible.

            • villagedianne

              I think we all have a little “nazi” inside of us, under the right conditions. Power is a test of character.

      • pluvo

        There is also a video from Philip Zimbardo in which he explains “How Good People Turn Evil”.

        “The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xpsVlY3QQc

        Excerpt from the description: “The recipe for behavior change isn’t complicated. – All
        evil begins with a big lie,” says Zimbardo, “whether it’s a claim to be following the word of God, or the need to stamp out political opposition. A seemingly insignificant step follows, with successive small actions, presented as essential by an apparently just authority figure. The situation presents others complying with the same rules, perhaps protesting, but following along all the same. If the victims are anonymous or dehumanized somehow, all the better. And exiting the situation is extremely difficult“.

      • monkeyknickers

        I haven’t heard about this ever (what else is new, I miss everything)

        This makes me lament my fellow human in a way I can’t describe even.
        On lots of different levels.

        Thanks for the link.

    • Mark

      I hope that all your friends who were bullied, bribed or scared into “disconnecting” from you will be back in touch as soon as humanly possible. This rotten, malicious cult will NOT prevail.

  • Racnad

    I find it difficult to fathom that people who were raised in America and learned about the Constitution and Bill of Rights in school (and in my case APPLE SCHOOL, where we diligently looked up any words in it we didn’t understand) can accept some organization dictating to them who they can & can’t talk to or that they can’t share thoughts and fact-based observations. It was clear to me early on Scientology does NOT believe in the First Amendment and it’s values were more akin to the Soviet Union or North Korea.
    *****
    So according to Mike Rinder, the Orgs in the Bay Area can’t draw more than 20 people to there events? I’ve occasionally thought about going to a Scientology event in my area, keeping a low profile just to check it out. Back in the 1970s and early 80s, these could draw hundreds or maybe more than a thousand people so you could do this, but with no more than a couple dozen, I’d have people staring at me wondering “who’s this guy?”

    • BananaSplits8

      Mention of SF Anons inspired me to take a look at their protest thread at WWP. Looked at a video with a brief appearance by Jeff Quiros. I thought to myself maybe it’s just me and it’s too brief a glimpse to really judge but he looks so defeated; quite the contrast from his former smugness. Then I read the e-mail the SF scientologist wrote to Mike Rinder. Nope, it wasn’t just me. Three seconds looking at him was enough to say it all.

    • i-Betty

      So its inauguration is already 2 years behind…

      Great news!

      • RMycroft

        The Toronto org has been closed for many months now (relocated to a 3rd floor walk-up temp org), and there hasn’t been a single sign of any actual renovations. There’s only one place to park a dumpster for internal tear-down, and there isn’t one.

        I’m still predicting that the Toronto org land will eventually be sold to condo developers for a huge amount of money. A small part of that will buy a new org and Ideal-ize it. The rest will go towards investments in really choice well-aged single malt scotch. (As if DM’s surviving taste-buds were worthy.)

        • Cher

          The new Sacramento Ideal org is empty all the time. I have driven by several times and it doesn’t matter the day or time.
          They have their little table offering stress tests at an open air mall not far from the org and my daughter and I watched them for about 3 hours a few days ago and nobody was stopping. We did notice they were aggressively trying to get younger people to talk to them. I know they have tried to engage my daughter, who is 17, and some of her friends a few times. Being her mother’s daughter she said,” why is your stress test so different than the one my psychologist gives?”. She quite enjoyed the reaction she got from that encounter.
          Do they normally go after younger people more aggressively than older people?

          • Sunny Sands

            Yes, they do go after the younger people. One reason is hoping to make them Sea Org slaves.

            • Cher

              That is what I assumed. I also think they can go after younger people because they probably aren’t as well informed about Scientology and are more likely to fall for their lies about how wonderful sea org is

            • Ruby

              exactly!

        • ze moo

          Toronto and Vancouver are the hottest real estate markets in Canada. The Toronto org is some of the primest of the prime. Every day some speculator or developer must be pitching development or selling plans to Davey.

          Davey will invest the profits in some non-scieno business. Like a scotch distillery or something that has no connection to Lroon and the clamdom. Being associated to the clamdom is a business death sentence.

  • Krew13

    ” because I know you believe in LRH.”

    That sums up the tragedy. People who follow the insane drivel of a tax evading, psychopathic lunatic.

  • Re: San Francisco, I have often noticed Scientologists offering personality tests and “selling” copies of “Dianetics” in the busy Powell St. BART station. Maybe I should print up some of those “Shelly Miscavige: Not Missing!” posters and hand them to the staffers next time I see them…

    The SF Ideal Org is in a gorgeous old building, the former Transamerica headquarters in the Financial District. I would love to see something worthy of that beautiful old architecture occupying the space. Maybe someday… http://photosecrets.com/old-transamerica-building

    • Captain Howdy

      Gawd Bless Emperor Norton!

      • RMycroft

        I’d rather have a self-appointed nutter than one who spent over a billion dollars of someone else’s money to get there. (And the runner-up guy who also spent over a billion dollars to not get there.)

        And Americans wonder why Canadians still have an ancient and inbred relic as our Final Boss of the government. Personally, I like the idea of someone who can tell Contempt Party head Stephen Harper to STFU, “and by the way, here’s MI6 evidence that you cheated when you took over as high school debating club captain, you little oink. Now, sit at attention in the presence of your betters!”

        NB: If King Charles attempts to stuff any of of his homeopathy nonsense down our throats, I’m sure that we can find a Lord Protector and a sharp axe.

        • Once_Born

          “If King Charles attempts to stuff any of of his homoeopathy nonsense down our throats, I’m sure that we can find a Lord Protector and a sharp axe”.

          Don’t trouble yourself. I’ll be there first.

          After all, I’m English, and much closer to silly-man-who-talks-to-plants.

          Please reply :
          C/OTower of London
          London

          • Mark

            Co-Operative Commonwealth NOW! Down with the Von Saxe-Coburg de Gotha oligarchy! Remember the Diggers and Levellers! (are those tumbrils I hear rumbling in the distance?).

            Quite right too – we’re not all royalist dupes here in the UK:

            • i-Betty

              I loved that headline 🙂

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          King Charles, not King William?

        • Robert Eckert

          Wet nymphets handing out blades is not a rational basis for a system of governance.

          • John P.

            Nor are moistened bints lobbing scimitars in one’s general direction.

            Allow me to put in a small, reflexive plug here. Capitalism… it utterly sucks, but it sure beats the alternatives.

    • Missionary Kid

      The comments on Rinder’s blog have some other stories of decay in the San Francisco outlying regions.

  • Sidney18511

    Congratulations Mr. O!! Just watched you receive your beautiful SP medal of honor and listened to the speech you gave at Pooks famous SP party.
    I think that I can speak for all the bunkeretts when I say………YOU ROCK!

    Thank you for acknowledging your posters and readers. Your an honorable man doing a most honorable job.
    Hip hip hooray!

    • Spackle Motion

      Link, please?

      • Mark

        Scroll down to Patty’s post.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Disconnection is a poisonous policy, made so much worse by the church’s refusal to acknowledge its existence as policy. By denying it exists, the church not only shows how ashamed it is of its own actions, but it shows a cold disrespect for all the members who have been forced to disconnect. I read a story yesterday written by an ex-church member whose husband was ordered to disconnect from her when she left. The ethics officer was quite insistent. The husband, however, was not a member of the church and had never been a member! According to the wife, the husband kept trying to tell the ethics officer this, but the officer was too involved in insisting the husband disconnect to listen. Even though this is a bizarre story that the two comediennes in NYC could have a field day with (handing out disconnection orders to perfect strangers), the story also demonstrates how little the church thinks of love and loyalty. Perhaps this is why San Francisco, the city famous for the “Summer of Love,” is the first church region to go kaput.

    • i-Betty

      “handing out disconnection orders to perfect strangers”

      Laughing out loud! I’m going to suggest that on the “Shelly’s Not Missing” video 😀

    • grundoon

      “You can’t talk with your wife anymore!” orders Mike Hambly

      Although I quit going to the Church of Scientology a year ago when the Ethics Officer told me I was going to have to turn my husband into a Scientologist (meaning he wasn’t one), today my husband received a phone call from Mike Hambly of Church of Scientology Mission of Belleair telling him that he could no longer speak with me because I had left the Church of Scientology.

      Apparently, telling Mike Hambly that he wasn’t a Scientologist didn’t seem to slow Mike down. Mike proceeded to explain the whole disconnection idea to my husband for the next 10 minutes on the phone and repeatedly said that my husband could no longer talk to me.

      My husband is such a sweetheart and polite to everyone. I have no idea what he told Mike that conveyed the idea of “Forget it, dude!” but he somehow got off the phone. I was, of course, furious. After calming down I really had to laugh at how the Church of Scientology could be so ridiculous. After all, my husband wasn’t a Scientologist a year ago and that was somehow a “problem”. Now somehow, after one year of absolutely no participation in the Church of Scientology my husband has somehow “become” a Scientologist? I think not.

      Mike Hambly… go home, you’re working too hard and need some rest. Or better yet, go back to Canada and quit pretending to have a valid reason for a visa to be here.http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=306920#p306920

      I wonder if Mike Hambly is out yet?

      • GlibWog

        OMG… Now THAT is hilarious.. Seriously so Whacked it’s funny..

  • Charles Chadwick

    As local resident to both the San Jose, and “former” Campbell mission, I can tell you that Scientology is completely irrelevant here. A friend of mine who had a sibling who became interested in $ci, his family responded with horror and he was quickly talked out of it. When the Los Gatos Org (home to the Squirrel Buster head guy, forget his name) got its new building, Its grand opening ceremony was held near where I live in a yuppie shopping mall, and was truly pathetic. They set up a small stage with some banners, had a few minor politicians appear (mostly Los Gatos city government officials), and maybe 30 people in attendance that I could see. The ceremony can be found on Youtube, if you’re at all curious. In my 34 years of growing up in the bay area, I can recall seeing ONE Scientology bumper sticker, ONE flier, etc. Pathetically, I constantly see the local org and missions putting up ads on craigslist that have generic pictures of people in support groups saying “Have problems with anxiety? We offer classes and counseling. Call “insert name here” today. I looked up the number in one of them and it was the number to one of the local San Jose missions. Yes, they’re not doing too well out here. Plus, the Mountain View mission is never open when I’ve driven by. Just thought I’d add that.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      For the last year or so I’ve informally polled my rather wide circle of friends about their contact with actual Scientologists (not the ever-dwindling group of celebrities we all “hear” about). Not only do I not know a singe Scientologist in the “real” world, none of my friends do, either. I have “met” more Scientologists here than anywhere else. And it hasn’t been for lack of trying.

      • Cher

        That has been my experience as well. Granted I live about 40 minutes from the nearest org (Sacramento) but I have a lot of friends and business associates there and the only ones any of us have run into are the ones at a downtown mall offering the stress tests. And as I said earlier NO ONE was talking to them and we watched them for a good 3 hours a few days ago.

    • Sunny Sands

      In the Tampa Bay area, lots of those craigslist courses list a fee of $50. I think the response would be nil on that.

    • Sanddancer

      There was also the downtown Mountain View storefront that closed up a few years back. I wonder how hard the church has tried to memory hole that particular failure. Though these actions are more widespread than just the South Bay. The Berkeley org seems to be putting in a token effort to get bodies in — their presence in the downtown BART station is much more sporadic than it was even a few years ago. Which I can appreciate; giving a “stress test” to people coming home from work is just all kinds of wrong. Gonna be curious to see how much the church is willing to pump in to giving the appearance of growth in the area, especially given the always high real estate prices in the area.

    • Robert Eckert

      John Allender is the name of the lunatic from the Los Gatos org who started the “Squirrel Busters”

  • California

    List of celebrities who have left from Skip Press

    For your morning enjoyment:
    http://www.themortonreport.com/celebrity/hollywood/the-giant-list-of-celebrities-that-departed-scientology/

    • Krew13

      I hope Michael Pena, Juliette Lewis and Giovanni Ribisi leave. I want to be able to like them again.

  • California

    RE: San Francisco

    It was in San Francisco that the access to public ed kids using Narconon Drug Education was first considered way back in 1996 or so.

    It was in San Francisco that this was implemented back in 2001, after Bush attained the presidency and put SCN’er John Danielson in the federal department of education as Chief of Staff to Sec’y of Education Rod Paige. (Yes, SCN/ABLE/Narconon tried elsewhere but SCN has several “ins” (Superintendent Arlene Ackerman, SFUSD BOE head Jill Wynns married to SCN’er George Wynns) with the SFUSD and this was to be a model for how to do it.)

    It was in SF back in the Fall of 2002 that this scheme started unraveling as SCN’ers from the SF Org behaved so badly to educators who stumbled upon it.

    It was in SF on June 9, 2004 that the first of 12 devastating articles by Nanette Asimov was published in the SF Chronicle detailing the infiltration of SCN/Narconon into California public and charter schools.

    It was in SF in Aug. 2004 that the SFUSD BOE voted to stop Narconon Drug Education in the SFUSD. Jill Wynns, wife of SCN’er George Wynns, abstained from voting. This was a defeat for Superintendent Arlene Ackerman and her chief minion Trish Bascom who ran the SFUSD School Health Program. Bascom was arrested this Spring on 94 courts of fraud, etc. Ackerman passed away Feb. 3, 2013.

    It was in Sacramento that the California Department of Ed findings on Narconon Drug Education were published in Feb. 2005. It has been a most effective tool in educating people.

    It was in SF that Anonymous rocked, beginning in 2008. Tommy Gorman and family were especially active and eloquent. Larry Wollersheim, as well. Please read up on them both.

    It was in SF that SCN, under the leadership of SF Org head Jeff Quiros (and leadership is now shared with Karen de Lise), first began failing in its mission in 2002 when the behavior against people questioning what SCN/Narconon was doing in the SFUSD was so outrageous. it was in SF that Vance Woodward woke up, got out and began communicating with Tony.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      That whole Bay area in California has been a precision gauge of the health of scientology since the 70’s and Flag in Clearwater, Florida has been the barometer.

      In the Tampa Bay area, the few peripheral missions and org are shrinking on the vine despite being intravaneously plugged into the wealthiest and most radical of all in scientology land. Even Miscavige can’t manage to seize customers other than outer org staff to fill Flag seats, ground zero itself and even with the drooling leader himself “in town”. They’ve weathered stormy weather before and survived. They have Not weathered a Hurricane Cat 5. No One weathers a Hurricane Cat 5. You can only evacuate … permanently.

      There was a time in San Fran or any of the California Bay missions that you had to arrive an hour early to secure a parking space. Now you have to buy your own parking space and the building and the library and the staff and the furniture before you can arrive at all just to be threatened, abused and fleeced inside. Now you can get a parking space if you arrive a week late. The electric might be turned off, the staff might be one person who is Chief Maintenance Director and Deputy Asst of Flashlights. This area has been in Critical Care units before. They have Not been in Coma on Life Support like now and with David Miscavige in charge of Triage, prognosis for recovery is negative.

    • aquaclara

      Arlene Ackerman was dismissed as superintendent of Philadelphia schools in August, 2011, shortly before classes were set to begin. The end of her tenure was the source of controversy after it was learned she was given $905,000 in school district money to walk away. Critics called her “Queen Arlene,” saying she was polarizing, autocratic and overpaid.

      An educator for 43 years, Ackerman previously served as superintendent in San Francisco and Washington, D.C. She came to Philadelphia, the nation’s eighth-largest district, in 2008.
      Narconon has a page for Pennsylvania, referencing Philadelphia today, but any NN connection that might have been established is likely under cover, like much of the educational process in the city.

      • California

        The local SF unions and others also from academia were also in contact with Philly officials from Day One of her interviewing for the position. Philly was under state control at the time and the Republicans up in Scranton appointed her to the position.

        Initially no one really listened there but then they did. People mapped out to them what she had done in SFUSD and other places as she followed her game plan where-ever she went. She got a large severance package to walk away from the SFUSD, as well. We all figured that it was worth it and would have personally contributed to it. She filed for Unemployment from Philly and there were loud cheers from Philly folk, on both sides of the aisle, when it was firmly refused.

        Under Bush and his onerous NCLB policies (“Do what you are told”), she thrived, at least for a few years, in the SFUSD from 2000 until her attachment to poor educational policies, to Narconon Drug Education, to dubious friends and undertakings and her greed brought her down. She regarded Jeff Quiros as one of her friends. She was frantic when Nanette Asimov of the SF Chronicle began her research into Narconon Drug Education back in 2003 and created havoc for anyone she thought might be helping Nanette. Her best friend on the SFUSD BOE was Jill Wynns…. and they stayed close until Arlene’s death.

        ‘Nuff said.

      • California

        The local SF unions and others also from academia were also in contact with Philly officials from Day One of her interviewing for the position. Philly was under state control at the time and the Republicans up in Scranton appointed her to the position.

        Initially no one really listened there but then they did. People mapped out to them what she had done in SFUSD and other places as she followed her game plan where-ever she went. She got a large severance package to walk away from the SFUSD, as well. We all figured that it was worth it and would have personally contributed to it. She filed for Unemployment from Philly and there were loud cheers from Philly folk, on both sides of the aisle, when it was firmly refused.

        Under Bush and his onerous NCLB policies (“Do what you are told”), she thrived, at least for a few years, in the SFUSD from 2000 until her attachment to poor educational policies, to Narconon Drug Education, to dubious friends and undertakings and her greed brought her down. She regarded Jeff Quiros as one of her friends. She was frantic when Nanette Asimov of the SF Chronicle began her research into Narconon Drug Education back in 2003 and created havoc for anyone she thought might be helping Nanette. Her best friend on the SFUSD BOE was Jill Wynns…. and they stayed close until Arlene’s death.

        ‘Nuff said.

  • Ruby

    What this audio message shows so clearly is that the woman is not disconnecting out of her “self determined choice”, as the cult puts it. She is heartbroken that she is “probably going to have to disconnect”, and wants to try and find a way around it. These are not the words of someone who wants her friend out of her life…these are the words of someone who knows that the ethics officer will tell her she has to disconnect.

    • i-Betty

      Indeed 🙁

  • Krew13

    So is this tragic voicemail an example of the “new and better realities” Sciloons create which Top Gun talked about?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Love the avatar! (Just had to tell you.)

  • cindyplahuta@msn.com

    Thanks Sindy for shining the light on Disconnection. It is a
    disgusting practice. I firmly believe that this practice will be the
    demise of the Church of Scientology. My daughter (Kara Landry) and Step
    Daughter (Cara Plahuta) have not spoken to me or my husband for 2 1/5
    years. We love and miss our daughters very much. This situation has been
    extremely painful for us. See stopdisconnection.com for my story.

    The
    C of S creates their own enemies. I would have walked away and said
    nothing if my daughters would not have Disconnected from me.
    Disconnection is used as a control mechanism to keep people quiet and
    from leaving the Church. The Church of Scientology does not want anyone
    to tell their story of what really goes on inside of it’s very private
    doors.

    For Karin Pouw (David Miscavaige) to state they
    do not force the members to Disconnect from their families and friends
    is a complete lie. Most of our friends of 25+ years Disconnected from
    us. I have letters from two close friends disconnecting from us.

    I
    do not know where the Church went off the rails but lying is what they
    do best now. When I became a member, I thought I was in a group that
    would help the world become a better place. Now, The Church of
    Scientology is extremely corrupt and can only keep their members by
    lying to them and threatening them with disconnection.

    • Synthia Fagen

      Though I find no fault and have zero judgment upon those who stay under the radar so as not to have to disconnect from their children, I have the utmost respect for those who chose honor, self respect, integrity and a clean conscience over a risk they might temporarily lose their children. When it’s all said and done, you will be the heroes to your children. They will never have to ask, “if you knew those crimes were happening, why didn’t you say anything?”

      I am sure most parents that leave actually think and hope that their children will choose them over the church and maybe, if you had to do it all over again with what you know now, you may have chosen to stay under the radar. I would understand that too.

      All I can say is that I am inspired by your integrity. I love you and I truly did do this for you three in mind, specifically, as well as all those who are victims of this truly evil policy.

      • aquaclara

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

      • Well said. After all, if parents start by staying in to accomodate their children, what else will they go along with? (Hint: it involves sending pre-pubescent kids off to breathe blue asbestos and get abortions at a young age…)

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Cindy, I think about you often, and check in on the South Coast Mission via Facebook. [https://www.facebook.com/southcoastmission] For what it’s worth, they seem to be getting more and more manic in trying to “prove” that everything is GREAT, JUST GREAT! They used to post the usual meaningless stats on a regular basis, but in the last month all they have had to offer is a daily quote from LRH. Their “Likes” are approaching 20,000, but we all know how that came about– purchasing “Likes” the way Kirstie Alley purchases Twitter followers.

      I finally got down to Orange County recently, and realized I was near the outdoor mall where they had their fabulously successful kiosk where they could hawk LRH’s stuff. I really wanted to see an actual “working” Scientologist or two, and somehow work the conversation around to the “non-existent” policy of disconnection. Imagine my disappointment to find that not only were they no longer there, even the kiosk itself was gone.

      Every now and then I look at your daughter’s photo on their Facebook page. I have an adult daughter who lives nearby. My wife and I don’t agree with all the choices she has made lately, but we call each other, we text each other, and we all keep communication open. We know it will get better. I pray this will be true for you, too.

      • cindyplahuta@msn.com

        Thank you for your good thoughts.

    • aquaclara

      I’m so sorry, Cindy. It’s just heartbreaking to know that disconnection does exist, it is painful, and it does more to harm good people who just thought they were trying to help the world be a better place. Having a chance to speak out and be heard will make a difference. I am hoping we’re seeing the walls begin to crumble now.
      But until every family has their own family back, and until exes are free to speak about their life in the church, it’s not soon enough.
      Hoping your daughter and step-daughter see things more clearly soon, and come back to you. And here is hoping that those friends of 25 years take that jump, too.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Cindy, thank you for speaking up. And thank you for holding out on hope.Those who are still navigating the shallow end of the pool are Not having joyous celebrations of birthdays, or warm and cozy fireplace caroling over Christmas hot chocolate, or making giant bowls of potato salad in the kitchen for the family summer picnic. They are Not shopping for back to college clothes and dorm rooms or freezing on the football 50 yard lines with their friends. They can’t even cry on a shoulder or ask for a hug.

      They might be able to withstand missing life in all its beauty and blisters, but they can’t survive missing love. I’m hoping the upcoming holiday season will be a grand reunion.

    • pluvo

      Cindy, I think that this blog (stopdisconnection.com) is very important, and will be more important in the future when it has more and more stories which can be referred to press, politicians and questioning people, disproving the bold lies of the CoS and documenting the abuses.
      But what also came to my mind is when I read “I have letters from two close friends disconnecting from us” that probably it would be good to post this letters also there – and also from other people – (with blacked out names if necessary), as additional evidence for the disconnections. Such letters (as well as the recorded disconnection from Synthia), are very valuable, describing the mindset and trouble of the people who are disconnecting more or less enforcedly.

  • ze moo

    From Mike Rinders blog, referenced above.

    “He cross referenced his research against mortgages on the homes then
    told the public Scientologists how much they were each to donate based
    on percentages of these assets.”

    This spells out the difference between religions and cults. In religions, you give a free will donation based on your conscience and what you think you can afford. In a cult you pay what the boss/dear leader/tyrant wants. A Fair-Issac or Dunn & Bradstreet rating should not be the key to your ‘religious’ future. Rinders report of abject apathy among the clams is very heartening. Total meltdown is very near and the Dear Leader can’t do anything about it. Hell, he caused all of it to happen.

    Who would shell out big bucks for Lroons ‘magic’ when they will be required to pay again for the ‘new improved semi-colon correct version’ {Golden Age of Tech 2}. When the dwarfenführer announced GAT2 he killed off any income that clams currently doing those courses might have spent. After the debacle of ‘semi-colon correct’ LRH and GAT1, who would spend big bucks to do those courses a third time???

    If Stupor Powerz doesn’t fly, Davey is going face a full on revolution from the few faithful clams left. There aren’t many distractions left in his magicians hat…

  • Bob

    Tony, made note of two significant blogs today. Both are basically dead on the money. Mikes post of the letter and Skips post. (Except for Stanley Clark).

    From my perspective the rediculous activities of the OTs are getting out of hand. Everyone is redoing their purifs and objectives. It is amazing to watch this go down. I think the MouseKavige is doing this just to prove he can make clams do anything he wants no matter how rediculous.

    Also thanks to a lot of regulars. I did respond to Sugarplumfairy’s comment in yesterday’s blog. But it was meant for everyone on this blog who has allowed me to comment without trouncing me. Bob

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      MouseKavige. I like that one. (And I am not a fan of name-calling.)

      • Bob

        Since I am only semi-literate I never remember how to spell his last name but I can always remember the mouse part and every seems to know who I am referring to.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’ve got several different variations of your spelling (MouseKavige), but I think it’s the best. With that one, I’ve now gotten 100 different nicknames for DM. Eliminating spelling and pronunciation variations, I probably have 75 different basic ones.

    • aquaclara

      Wishing you continued good luck, Bob. I do hope that you make it out, and I think most here understand and sympathize with your situation. Keep posting. Your perspectives are valued…

      • Bob

        AC, Thank you. I do what I can.

        • aquaclara

          and one day, hopefully soon, you might come on board with a new story to share. And we will be here listening….and cheering. In the meantime, stay safe.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m looking forward to the day that we can all drop the anonymity of avatars. I’m looking forward to meeting you IRL.

    • i-Betty

      You’re very welcome here, Bob 🙂

    • sugarplumfairy

      can I just trounce a little? =)

  • Roger Larsson

    David Miscavige has a chickenfarm in his closet something Tony Ortega hasn’t.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Are you saying david miscavige keeps laying eggs?

  • Papa Xenu

    I came across an interesting book called, “The Psychopathic Test” by Jon Ronson (also wrote, “The Men who Stare at Goats”). I haven’t had a chance to read the whole book yet, but I’ve seen some interviews & a monologue he did from the book. He talks about the person who actually developed the widely used test & indicates that the world of politics & big business (corporations) is filled with psychopaths. According to Ronson & the test’s creator these are the people responsible for wars, economic crisis, corporate scandals, etc. He goes on to explain that these are the CEOs who have no problem causing the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people in the pursuit of profit. Ronson, talks about these people who on the outside look respectable, professional & often very successful in their field. Anyway, I could go on & on, but I think you know where I’m going with this. The more I listened & read the more I saw examples of the church’s behaviour (specifically LRH & Miscavige’s).

    • Mark

      The book also has absolutely fascinating material on the British Co$ getting involved with a Broadmoor inmate who insisted that he wasn’t a real, ‘dangerous’ psychopath, but trapped by psychiatric dogmatism and inflexibility. It may be the first and only time Sluggard’s anti-shrink anti-pharma lunacy has done any good – though even that’s not certain, in Ronson’s account. (I won’t spoil your enjoyment by giving the end away!)

      • Papa Xenu

        That’s one of the monologues/interviews I was referring to above. The man wears a suit when meeting Ronson & claims he merely feigned his insanity to avoid prison. I work in the mental health field & am utterly fascinated with the field of forensic psychology. Anyway, thanks for not spoiling it for me, having watched Ronson in interviews, I’m curious to read his take on the whole matter.

        • Mark

          His latest Lost At Sea (just out in paperback) is very interesting along the same lines – Stanley Kubrick’s connection with Co$, and a bearded and ever-so-slightly loopy Robbie Williams at a UFO-believers event, among many other choice items.

          • Papa Xenu

            I’ll put that on my list, at this rate I should get to it in the spring of 2043. Thank God I’m a thetan, I’ve got more books on my list than I can possible get to in this life time.

    • Robert Eckert
      • Bury_The_Nuts

        This movie always made me think of Scientologist’s…..even back in the day!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          sure, that’s good And funny. Still, I haven’t found one that tops this…

          http://youtu.be/WuL2QwsNeM8

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Ah, so true…

          • Captain Howdy

            Yea, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Village of the Damned, The Day the Earth Stood Still because Cruise thinks he’s Klaatu.

            And of course…

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3U83QLoATU

    • 0tessa

      I had the ‘luck’ to work with a couple of these ‘crazy bosses’.

  • aboutandout

    Re: Mike’s article and link to the Montreal org. I hate to ruin the stats but I know so many people who don’t want to list their religion on the census so they tick the Scientology box for the hell of it. So of the approx. 1800 members in Canada might be over inflated. How the hell can this size of membership begin to support the capital outlay for a 4.2 million dollar building and 80 hectares (240 acres) an hour outside Toronto? My god they must be bleeding the members dry if there is any blood left.

    • John P.

      Don’t forget that they often try to tap the “whales” for donations when the local members can’t cover it. I don’t know how many billionaire fur trappers or lumberjacks there are in the thinly populated rural region of upstate New York known as Canada, so it is doubtful that they will be able to hit up the Canadian whales for much. They’ll probably hit up some of the more loyal Kool-Aid drinkers from the warmer parts of the US, like Craig Jensen for what they can’t extract from the assorted denizens of the small hamlet called Toronto.

      • aboutandout

        so much for those foreign investment laws….oh that’s right it is a church not a corporation.

      • Jgg2012

        How many Scientologists are there in upstate NY? Montreal, it’s 2d largest city, hasn’t had a new auditor since 1996. Buffalo is empty, as is Toronto, upstate NY’s largest city. Narconon is gone there.

      • Observer

        Davey must be green with envy that Keith Raniere snagged the Canadian Bronfman sisters with NXIVM before he even got a shot at them. Although if I recall correctly they may be American citizens now.

  • Mark

    Given what we’ve been seeing over even the last few days – dissent (Mike Rinder’s blog) – defections (Skip Press’s article) – and decay (the Suppressapalooza videos) – how long before there are definite signs of infighting breaking out at the very top of $cientology? Could the Dwarfenführer be toppled in a palace coup?

    As a tinpot dictator, Miscavige is certainly no Stalin – but look what happened to Uncle Joe once he was fatally weakened – left untouched for hours after his brain-haemorrhage, or possibly even stifled with a pillow by Beria. Whichever version’s true (and I know the debate about Stalin’s demise is far from over) – the moment that the old horror’s weakness was obvious, the feuding among his cronies undoubtedly started.

    I may be wrong, but DM should watch his back in future: it’s never been so vulnerable before.

    • Just wait until the whales are expected to sleep with the bedbugs at the Ft Harrison. Tee-hee!

      • Mark

        And don’t forget the cockroaches! (Evil mirth).

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        .

      • ze moo

        The whales will be staying anywhere that doesn’t have bedbugs. Those who are warned that is. The rest will have to deal with the blood sucking insects and the bedbugs too.

      • GlibWog

        Damn.. Now ya got me itchin again! ugh

  • Jgg2012

    Disconnection is on their effing website. They stated in the Wollersheim case that fair game (which inevitably includes disconnection) was a core part of their religion. They don’t even know how to lie effectively. Maybe they need to do some more TR-Ls (training routine- lying).

  • Krew13

    Perhaps the greatest irony of the Sciloons is that Hubbard and Miscmidget were/are clearly insane, hence their opposition to psychiatry. Miscmidget could do with a good dose of an anti-psychotic.

  • phronsie

    Where can I go to ask off topic questions? Like, do scientologists really REALLY feed their babies on some weird Hubbard made up kind of formula?

    • DeElizabethan

      It’s called tech and policy from Lliaron = the scripture.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The barley gruel stuff? Is that what you mean?

      • KJP in Portland

        I’d like to see some cruelty to children laws enforced on the barley gruel stuff…

    • John P.

      A constructive suggestion: WWP, OCMB and some of the other message boards are good for these sorts of questions, since the pace of comments and new posts on this forum would tend to push a detailed question like that out of the way before people have had a chance to take a look at it. Those sites seem better, IMO, for answering a question that people might take a couple days to get back to you with information about.

      For example, I was in a long discussion on the meaning of the lifeboat configuration on the FreeWinds, which ended up coming to consensus on some answers to some long-running questions. The discussion had been running for several months when I joined it. If the original poster had posed the question here, it would have disappeared and been forgotten overnight, and it would have been hard to get a useful answer.

      • aquaclara

        aah, and NOW you have gone and piqued my interest re: your analysis of the lifeboat configuration on the FreeWinds….
        Now where by chance would we find this nugget?
        This morning I was actually wondering if you had analyzed the legal expenses the cult is facing right now. It would seem to be skyrocketing. And what do I see? A lovely JP breakdown of the revenue of the cult….quite lovely.
        thank you!

        • John P.

          1. Lifeboat analysis is here: https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/photos-of-empty-freewinds-march-2010.62447/page-4 Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

          2. Legal expenses come in two parts: fees paid to lawyers and the amount paid out in settlements. In publicly traded companies of this size in high tech, the industry I’m most familiar with, legal expenses are often up to 2% of revenue. I’d think that is a shade low for the complex legal actions on multiple fronts that the cult is facing today. I’d go with a number more like $6 to $8 million in legal fees, probably including a fairly hefty retainer for Monique Yingling, who is one of the few people that Miscavige trusts. I have heard conflicting information about whether she is back involved with the cult after her husband, a rock star super-lawyer who did a lot of work with the cult, died. But if she is, I suspect her retainer could easily be $1 million per year.

          The second part of legal fees is amounts paid out in settlements. Those are a little harder to predict but one can often get an estimate based on what happened in the case before the settlement came about. Sometimes, the timing of settlements is completely random and the cult could get hit substantially in one year and by sheer randomness, not have many settlements to pay out the following year. But pay they will, since they seem to have a pretty poor track record of losing consistently the last few years, settling far more aggressively than usual and paying out handsomely in order to keep Miscavige unfettered and moving on to the next disaster. I estimate that the cult paid out $5 to $7 million to Debbie Cook, and another $5 to $6 million to Marrick & Arnold last year, based on educated guesses. The Patrick Desmond Narconon case was probably settled for a slightly lower amount, perhaps $2 to $3 million, typical for negligent deaths.

          • WhereIsSHE

            http://www.businessinsider.com/the-church-of-scientologys-most-trusted-lawyers-2012-9?op=1

            A decent (and fairly recent) article on the church’s attorneys of choice.

            No comment on the estimated settlement values. Not enough publicly available information to even hazzard a guess.
            Perhaps you in Global Capitalism HQ have some “insider” information?;)

            • John P.

              We in Global Capitalism HQ strenuously argue that we don’t need insider information to get a serious leg up on the market and outperform our competitors. Our mighty brains are way more than adequate for the task of sitting at or near the top of large hedge funds every year.

              By comparison, Stevie Cohen of SAC Capital has been hounded by allegations of insider trading personally as increasing numbers of his traders and portfolio managers have been convicted. We take no position on whether the recent charges filed by the SEC for “failing to supervise” are true or not, but we observe that a lot of people cheered when the press release was fired. Stevie is gonna spend a lot of time huddling with lawyers that he could spend out making money, giving us yet another year or two where we’ll trounce his generally solid record.

              The art of estimating settlements is a complete SWAG. In the case of the Debbie Cook trial, I initially thought they managed to score $2 million or so, probably paying Ray Jeffery $1 million out of a total settlement of $3 million. However, once it became clear that Debbie Cook and her husband were living a bit higher on the hog, I raised my estimate to $5 to $7 million on the theory that they were living on more like $200,000 per year than the $60,000 annuity I had previously thought. The annuity value of $2 million was based on 30 years’ longevity (they’re 50-ish at the time they signed the deal) at $60k plus a terminal value of 10%.

              A similar rough cut approach seemed to make sense for Marrick and Arnold (the PI’s following Pat Broeker), in a case where there was probably significant evidence via phone bills, etc. of Miscavige’s direct personal involvement, conferring a high likelihood of his being deposed and ultimately testifying. Showing a little bit of that evidence to Miscavige’s counsel probably got DM to want to fold quickly. The amounts were simple: two guys in their mid-50s who were grossing $200k per year apiece, assuming another 15 years of foregone income from the cult’s actions, so a net of $150k per year times 15 years times 2 guys equals $5 million, plus another $2 million for contingency legal fees.

              It may be a bit trickier to generate estimates of payouts of a long chain of actions for fraud in IAS donations in the wake of the Garcia case and for large-scale litigation against Narconon. In the latter, it’s especially difficult because the cult will resist piercing the corporate veil of the “upstream” corporate entities for either evidence or for the ability to claw back money sent to RTC as the beneficiaries of the fraud.

            • Mark

              I suppose the real evidence that they’re getting low on funds will be when they start having to sell off the property portfolio?

              From the other analyses you’ve done here today (doubtless being distracted occasionally by one of the supermodels), I get an overall impression the Co$ is wobbling on the brink of a financial chasm, and that this time the odds are they’ll fall in.

            • John P.

              I think they’ll go down without selling off any of the properties. This is not a normal corporate entity with rational financial decision making processes. Miscavige is determined to reignite growth somehow. I suspect strongly that he sees the increased pressure to fleece ever more money out of a shrinking member population as a “temporary” measure until he can re-light the growth engine. When they cut over to operating losses and have to start dredging into reserves, he will probably imagine that to be a “temporary” solution as well. Shuttering (and selling) empty Ideal Orgs would be an admission of failure. Miscavige can’t bear to admit any mistakes along the way, so he’ll continue to operate on top of a cash-draining failed strategy that nobody will be allowed to change, until the whole thing plows into the prairie at full throttle.

            • Mark

              I was making an assumption that they’d have to sell off the properties if their coffers were otherwise empty – from what you said earlier about legal expenses, it looked like the IAS ‘war-chest’ funds, which have always been DM’s back-up in the past, are about to take a series of huge hits from which they won’t recover; and with them gone, it’d be time to start liquidating assets. But, as you say, this is not rational behaviour we’re dealing with here!

              If Miscavige has anything left to re-ignite growth, then I, personally, am Empress of all the Russias, and pregnant with the Messiah, who will be a performing elephant named Griselda. The Hubbard well ran dry years ago – the Golden Shower of Dreck 2 is a load of rehashed rehashes, and the most recent attempts to fill the clams’ garages up with obscenely expensive leather-bound lavatory-paper have signally failed. So that avenue of escape is closed.

              Fleecing the whales? As a denizen of Global capitalism HQ, you know better than most how stingy billionaires can be – and even they don’t have bottomless bank-accounts. Dunning them and the rank-and-file clams to donate and put money on account for courses will be so temporary it’ll make time run backwards. The rumblings of discontent from even celebrity and ‘humanitarian’ clams are now too loud to be discounted – so they won’t get fooled again.

              But is even Davey-boy’s hubris so vast that he’ll keep hold of a portfolio of rotting, slowly-depreciating Idle Morgues (and the rest) simply not to be proved wrong? I wonder. My guess is that his psychopathic side will win over his narcissism, and he’ll do anything to keep the two-hourly imported gourmet snacks, Savile Row suits, souped-up Ducatis (and the rest) coming – even if it means abandoning his edifice-complex.

              The sooner the end comes – by whatever means, and in whatever order – the better.

              Sorry to witter on, but the spirit of Schadenfreude had me in its grip!

            • WhereIsSHE

              Ditto on your last comment!
              I blame it on the spirit of Schadenfreude!!!!!!!!

            • i-Betty

              Astonishing.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Much gratitude for your reply, JP.
              As always, I thoroughly enjoy your very insightful analysis.

              (I would just love to have some serious insider information about what they paid to certain parties, and not for gossip or because I begrudge said parties what they got, but rather to try to assess how much DM is “willing to bleed” at this point, seeing as how the non-stop “milking” of his “herd” has gone into absurd overdrive in light of the fact that these “ideal orgs” truly are EMPTY–and he has to know that. In other words… despite their “reserves”, he has to know that the hayday of blackmailing “donations” is a thing of the past, and that, at some point, the cash will stop flowing entirely.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Should have commented that my post of that link to the insiderbusiness article was meant to confirm your assessment of the legal costs in terms of retainer fees, etc.

              Just have some lingering curiosity about the settlement costs. (Enjoy your assessments, but would love to know the actual numbers, because I would love for those who are still in– but on the fence about being constantly bothered for more “donations”–to have the DATA on where their “donations” are actually going.)

          • aquaclara

            Thanks, John P. At some point, if revenues keep declining and legal bills remain high, I would expect to see a little belt-tightening taking place in Davey’s world; this might not affect his personal chef or custom-tailored wardrobe, but it might be something evidenced by the sale of a handful of large assets.

            Alternatively, there could be new mortgages placed on buildings to extend payments out, but as he doesn’t pay the bills for these directly, this seems less likely.

            The FreeWinds does not appear to be drawing in sufficient numbers of paying customers to keep this thing going, even for the minimal staff salaries that are needed to run the boat. So it must be valuable for another reason, like offshore banking. I hope there is a crackdown on this practice before too long.

            Or Davey might pull another rabbit out of his wee little hat. Personally, I would like to see the IRS come under pressure on them right now, which would throw an immediate monkey wrench into their financial picture.

            As you can see, I keep dreaming that they will run out of money…..

            • John P.

              Miscavige’s whole strategy (and indeed the whole rationale to keep him at the top of the heap in the cult) is based on expansion. He will do whatever he needs to do to sustain the illusion that the cult is expanding, including continuing to open Idle Morgues in all sorts of odd places. Look for Ideal Orgs in Des Moines, Lexington KY, Flagstaff AZ, etc. And maybe they’ll even get the New Haven org open some decade real soon.

              And he certainly won’t cut staff since undercutting Hubbard’s management “vision” would alienate some of his older customers who may still think Hubbard is a management genius. The cult is overstaffed by about 5x given the amount of revenue coming in but cutting staff to make the cult easier to manage would hint at failure, so it’ll never happen.

              I continue to believe that DM won’t cut spending; he’s obsessed with growth that will never come, and he will do whatever he has to, including spending reserves and hiring slave labor out of poor countries (which we’re already seeing) at an accelerating rate to sustain the illusion. He’ll do this until days before the final crater gets dug as the cult crashes to earth.

            • aquaclara

              Just watching your phenomenal intro and powerpoint from the SP party honoring Tony. (award-honoring on my Ipad, while Underground Bunkering on a desktop.)
              That was a VERY FUNNY tribute.
              Ok, back to the crash-and-burn perspective. You’re right that none of this follows logical business decision-making. And cutting staff is not as essential in the cult, since no one is making any money anyway. Periodic defections probably trim that staff nicely, anyway.
              The importation of people from impoverished nations is a huge trend, and included in this are people who are less impoverished but want to come to America. I think he has put all he has emotionally (not that this is a considerable amount to begin with) in the growth-initiatives – the “build it and they will come” strategy.
              I don’t see an uprising occurring; really, who would really want the massive lawsuits that face the cult, and will continue to face the cult for decades to come?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      http://www.scientologyparent.com/regarding-barley-form
      Here ya go….right from the Donkeys Ass! And yes, I know that was kind of redundant.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      ESMB (Ex Scientology Message Board)

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php

    • phronsie

      Thanks, all! 🙂

    • pluvo

      On this one, the “Church’s” own site: http://www.scientologyparent.com/regarding-barley-formula/

      On other things, I mostly find it when I google what I want to know and add “Scientology”.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Look! Up in the Sky! It’s a Bird! No wait…It’s A Bert! heh heh heh

    http://i44.tinypic.com/105zmzl.jpg

    • junojones

      Anyone who wants a spiffy Tee like that, let me know, I know the guy who made those for Pooks 😉

    • Spackle Motion

      I said this on another post, but I think it is worth repeating. Bert Leahy is an incredible guy. He had no dog in this hunt except getting his name dragged through the mud when he stood up for what he knew was wrong.

      And now he’s doing this wonderful thing. I think it speaks to his character and what a great character it is.

  • aboutandout

    Sindy, my heart goes out to you. Stay strong and keep the faith that someday you will enjoy her friendship again. It always gets my knickers in a knot that this so called “church” is bold enough to dictate who you socialize with outside of the church. On the other hand, It saddens me to think that the members are so fearful they are being watched every minute of the day/night and they pay big bucks to be given that feeling. It is so warped.

    And to Tony, you are my hero. My hero for keeping the faith for so many many years and staying the course, keeping it professional no matter how frustrating it becomes. May great things be blessed upon both you and your family.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I could not help but note this excerpt from that “Report from the Bay Area:”
    “My spouse and I recently had lunch with a woman who had been vilified to us by the DSAs and the “Mike Smiths”. When we met with her we were surprised because she looked so good. I suppose we expected her to look bad or devastated after everything we’d heard. Instead we saw a successful and healthy woman proud of her family, loving life and involved in her community.”

    This, I believe, is what will ultimately topple this thing. More and more are willing to leave and give the lie to the claims of Scientology. Sad, isn’t it, that living well after getting out is an affront to this “church.”

  • Meshell

    Thank you my dear Sindy! I find it’s so much easier living through this when I know there are people who do, in fact, care! I appreciate you posting this!

    • aquaclara

      Good luck to you, Meshell. It’s just a cryin’ shame, this whole thing. But just know that all of us here are thinking about you, too.

  • I’m sure the San Francisco area bOrgs victims have heard of the Amsterdam bOrg where approx one third of the public just walked out in one go. http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=22051

    Pretty soon, the only ones left will be a few life-time clams and the rest of the victims will start the rest of their lives. And this part will be theirs, not be wasted away in bondage to a criminal organisation which only cares about how much money they donate

    • Mark

      “The failed American science-fiction writer Hubbard launched his pseudo-philosophy Scientology in the 1950s.” – nobody like the Dutch for damning with faint praise.

      Oddly, when I typed in “Amsterdam humour”, Google images instantly came up with what I assume to be a picture of Tiny Dick’s last visit to the Netherlands:

      • shasha40

        He’s too “big” , lol

      • Sandy

        I remember this pic cuz I am 6′ tall Danish MN Blonde. Thought the pic was hilarious!!!!!

    • 0tessa

      That was a newspaper article dating from 2003 (!).

      • Mark

        Dutch Scientology – haemorrhaging members for a decade! How lucky they are only having one org in the whole country.

    • MissCandle

      Mr. Candle and I visited there in May of this year. It was not well lit inside, very old college-dorm-type furniture. Not “ideal” at all. The woman who worked the front desk looked to be in her late teens or early 20s and told us that she was born into the cult (although she did not use that word — cult). We sat at a cafe not too far from there for three days at all different times and for approximately six hours in total. We NEVER saw anyone coming or going . . . until we were inside. Then, at least 3 people — all members (versus strangers coming in off the street) — came in, stopped by the front desk (I guess to see if she needed any help) and then skipped upstairs.

  • J. Swift

    It was very hot day in July 2012.

    It was the late afternoon.

    I was standing with Karen and two of our friends outside of the mortuary that had taken Alexander’s body from the Los Angeles Coroners Office.

    Under threats from OSA and/or its criminal attorney, the owner of the mortuary had fled from his office and had taken Alexander’s body to some secret place to cremate it before Karen and I found it.
    Disconnection exists even after death as happened in the case of Alexander Jentzsch.

    I was on the phone to the owner of the mortuary pleading with him to allow Karen to see her son once last time. He told me that he could not do as he would lose his license and his business would be destroyed by the
    Church of Scientology.

    He was so afraid of the Church of Scientology that he had completely surrendered his basic human decency and compassion to Fear and Cowardice. Having done this he was now capable of great cruelty.

    For all of its vaunted talk of “Cause Over Life” what the Church of Scientology actually does is is to make people surrender their basic human decency and compassion to Fear and Cowardice — and fearful cowards will commit any degraded and cruel act to save their own skins.

    At its core, Disconnection is not power. At its core, Disconnection is Fear and Cowardice that allows people to commit great acts of cruelty.

    Disconnection is emotional blackmail designed to punish people for disagreeing with the policies of L. Ron Hubbard as enforced by David Miscavige and his fake navy.

    • i-Betty

      I’m so sorry. Every time I hear this story I could cry all over again. I cannot bear to think of your race against time, all to no avail.

    • 1subgenius

      What Karen and you are doing is the best way to heal and to honor the memory of a child lost.

    • GlibWog

      Operative NAME is HUBBARD ! He is AT the CORE of all things EVIL in this cult! Absolutely.

    • Synthia Fagen

      You are so right. It is an act of cowardice. These people can’t see the morally decrepit souls they have become.

    • villagedianne

      I don’t know if it is fair to blame the mortuary owner. As I understand it, the ex-wife unfortunately had the legal authority and was calling the shots. If he would lose his license and business I am not going to judge him.

  • Nancy Law

    so sad … heartbreaking … so glad you posted it.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Thank you, Sindy. <3

  • DodoTheLaser
    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      There are so many heroes around that just Hate to be called heroes. So let’s just call them fabulous party planners and happy party guests. Yeah, that’s it!

      http://i40.tinypic.com/35b9eg6.jpg

    • Sherbet

      I am so proud to be a part of the Bunker, and yet I’m completely in awe of the exes and SPs who earned their stripes (and their goldenrods). I do nothing except spout snark behind a pseudonym, but you people are either on the front lines now, or you gave up a fair portion of time and tears and even families to the cos. You folks know who you are, you who earned the right to happy lives outside the cos. I’m humbled, and I’m glad you allow never-ins like me into your clubhouse. You’re wise, experienced, you have suffered one way or another, yet you laugh loudly at in-jokes and scientology-speak. You’re obviously enjoying the hell out of life. I’m almost in tears, because I’m overwhelmed by what you do to bring down the cult. And Tony — what else can anyone say about you?

      • Jeb Burton

        Please be careful about throwing around the heroes label for people who entered into scientology on their own accord and then leave. Never forget that 99% of the people exposed to scientology reject it because they can see it for what it is. Why it might take a little courage to leave, most people would run from it, disconnection or not. And most of the people who identify themselves as independent, still believe LRH is their savior and he is right about the nonsense he wrote. Growing up and being brainwashed, as Jenna and Clair Headly were, that is where my sympathies go to. As far as people who were adults and signed up for the bullshit, they got what they deserved.

        • Observer

          What qualifies you to judge what anyone deserves? You don’t know people’s stories, or what state their lives were in when they fell into the trap. You seem to spend more time here on your high horse judging and condemning the ones you deem inferior or who aren’t performing to your specifications (for example, your condemnation of Leah Remini’s supposed inaction right before she filed the missing persons report) than you do contributing anything of substance.

          You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I, being the flawed, bumbling, mistake-making doofus that I am, choose compassion and respect for those who have paid a high price for and have learned from their mistakes.

          • DodoTheLaser

            Thank you.

            • KJP in Portland

              Same here. Thanks.

          • DeElizabethan

            Fine piece Observer. Thanks from many.

          • shasha40

            ‘Nuff said !

          • Jeb Burton

            i said that Leah’s filing her missing persons report would go nowhere, because
            Shelly is a dedicated scientologist and she would say that she is fine and doing important work for the church, which is what happened. I admire Leah for doing it. She is not a hero. There were reports all over the internet about Leahs pending book deal, I dont know to this day whether this is true, but I said if she had a book deal, all she was going to do was give us snippets, because the publisher would not want her to tell her full story. So far, all we have is snippets, no sit down, full depth interview. I dont view that as comdemnation, just the facts. I view people who leave the Mormon church, or the Muslim church, against the wishes of their families as brave as any scion. Are you telling me that Marty Rathbun is a hero?

            • Observer

              Here’s a screenshot of your post about Leah I’m referring to. Regardless of how you intended it, it reads to me as very judgmental.

              If you do view the courage of people leaving the Mormons, Islam and Scientology as equal it would seem to indicate you don’t know much about any of them. The penalty for renouncing Islam in the hardline Islamic states is imprisonment or death. The penalty for leaving Scientology publicly is disconnection and fair game (there are some people here who can tell you stories about being fair gamed). And the penalty for leaving Mormonism depends on how fanatical the believer. It can range from awkwardness at family gatherings to being shunned but nothing like fair game. I have close relatives who did it, so I do know what I’m talking about.

              And sorry, I’m not going to let you twist my words. I didn’t call anyone a hero, so your insinuation that I’m trying to say Marty is a hero is hogwash. I said I have compassion and respect for those who have paid a high price for and learned from their mistakes. I do have a measure of compassion for Marty–his life before Scientolgy was horrific–and I respect some of the things he’s done, but the ones I was talking about are the Headleys and the Sams and the Dodos and the DeElizabethans and the Fagens and the THDNEs and all of the others who are here speaking up and warning others.

            • Jeb Burton

              So how is this different from what Im saying now? if she writes a book, she is going to get a multi million dollar deal. One publisher says the sky is the limit.Like I said, if she sits down and tells her story it will definitely change my opinion of her. Just because she left the church, doesnt mean im not still skeptical of her. Tell the truth observer, what was your opinion of her before she blew? The truth observer. And as far as judgmental goes, you seem to very judgmental of DM and the corporate church. Opinion boards are about judging others and giving your take. And one more thing, most of the high profile scientologists like Marty, Mark and the others, didnt blow til they were subjected to the same treatment that they gave to hundred of others. If they were not subjected to the treatment that they themselves gave to others with on apparent mercy, they would probably still be in the cult.

            • Observer

              You are just determined to put words in my mouth, aren’t you? I am honestly starting to wonder if you’re a clam. You seem to have mastered their SOP of deflecting and and slyly twisting words to make people appear to be saying things they’re not.

              Miscavige is a criminal and Scientology is a criminal organization that has, among its many crimes, enslaved children and cost people their lives. You bet I’m judgmental about it.

              What did I think of Leah before she blew? I didn’t. I was neither a fan nor a detractor. I respect her now.

              I’ve said all I have to say. Our words speak for us, and I’m content to let mine stand.

            • Jeb Burton

              I love it when ever somebody doesnt like what im saying, they accuse me of being OSS or a clam. How did I twist your words? I was seeing a lot of hero posts. I wasnt even replying to your post observer, it was sherbert. The post below was talking of heroes, and sherbet said she was in awe of the ex scientologists. I know you would love it if everybody just agreed with everything you say, but I never have been that way. I am skeptical of indies and all scientologists. I live in Clearwater and have seen them ruin my town. To me, anybody that follows the teachings of the lunatic that is LRH is suspect.

            • Lunatic Posse

              We Lunatics prefer not to be associated with the spectacularly ignorant one known as LRH. Thank you very much.

            • Sherbet

              Jeb, just to clear the air: I agree with you about the indies. Somebody here likened the indies’ belief to the use of a nicotine patch, just something to wean a person away from their obsession. I also agree that lrh was a madman and maybe worse, and that his “tech” is phoniness wrapped up with a fat price tag. When someone says they had “wins” with the tech, I’m pretty sure they would have had those wins with other forms of healthier and cheaper therapy.

              The “awe” I have for the exes is not sainthood or hero worship. Some exes just walked away, but some are truly wounded. I applaud anyone who had the guts to get away from this cult and leave behind everything they believed in for so many years, to start over again. It was a step into the unknown, especially when the church told its members that the world was so horrible and unsafe. It doesn’t matter to me why or how they got into the cult in the first place, and I’m sure many are embarrassed that they did join the church, or that they believed the BS for as many years as they did. But they’re free now, and they’re getting the word out there that scientology is a dangerous, evil cult. And I think that’s terrific. What should we do, condemn them for falling for lrh’s lies in the first place?

            • Espiando

              The “nicotine patch” likener would be me. As a two-pack-a-day guy, it was the first analogy that came to mind. Actually, no, it wasn’t, but I didn’t want to mention methadone.

              My issue with them is that some of the Indies believe that they’re Patsy: that by wearing the nicotine patch, they can recharge it. It doesn’t work that way.

            • Sherbet

              Thanks, Espiando. It’s a perfect analogy.

            • Sidney18511

              Really Jeb….you will change your opinion of Leah Remini? What important news! What wonderfully important news. That MEANS SO MUCH to me! I’m sure that there are thousands….maybe millions of people who would find your opinions and what would change them utterly fascinating.
              I’ll alert the media.

            • GlibWog

              Jeb, Jeb, Jeb… You are being so Glib

            • Grant C

              “If they were not subjected to the treatment that they themselves gave to
              others with no apparent mercy, they would probably still be in the
              cult.”

              I see your point, but what is your end game? Because this is sounding a bit suspicous

            • Robert Eckert

              It was pointed out to you repeatedly, not only by me but also by Tony, that there were not “reports” in the plural, but just a singular “report” with multiple echoes. Part of what is annoying about you is that you do not seem to listen to what anyone tells you, but instead keep filling in what you think you are hearing.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Oh for Christ Sakes Jeb!!!
          You are entitled to your opinion but don’t tell us to “be careful” with ours.
          We are as entitled as you are.
          I do consider many of these people hero’s in this cause and I totally disagree with your assessment.
          “might take a little courage”? Seriously man?
          You might want to start reading a guy called Tony Ortega. Maybe he can explain it to ya!

          • marti

            BTN, You make me smile.

          • Jeb Burton

            Your entitled to hero worship ex scientolgists. Sorry, im not taking part in it. I prefer to think that they are people who finally came to their senses.

            • marti

              Jeb, It is not hero worship.
              A hero can be defined as performing a heroic act.
              Leaving the the COS does take a heroic act on the part of the individual.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Your right. I am entitled to do whatever the fuck I want.
              And you are entitled to be snobby, insufferable know it all.
              Enjoy!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Wait a minute!

              >I< am the snobby, insufferable know it all here, and don’t you forget it…!

            • GlibWog

              That is True BTN

            • Davka

              And I know I can sound high falutin’ at times but geez, Jeb, chill out…..Observer was must more eloquent about it, but honestly…..

            • DeElizabethan

              I was back loading some comments on this to answer but darlin’ you hit it on the head with great SP Power for the snobby, insufferable know it all comments. LOL and thanks.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Jeb, I really don’t think anyone worships anyone here.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I worship Tony..

            • Captain Howdy

              I worship Doc Holiday

            • sugarplumfairy

              ahhh.. of course.. for his dentistry skills, I presume?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Hey.. Can you picture some co$ power regger trying to hard sell Doc Holiday a WISE package? I’d like to be a fly on that wall..

            • Captain Howdy

              Better yet..John Wesley Hardin

            • DodoTheLaser

              Ok, I confess, I worship stuffed peppers.

            • sugarplumfairy

              mmmmmm…..

            • DeElizabethan

              Hear, hear. Me too. If you don’t have a sense of humor, you got nothin’

        • Sherbet

          Jeb, I didn’t use the word “heroes,” nor did I say anything about the indies. I admire the people who attended that party, who can laugh and joke about cos, when, at one time, they probably believed they were losing their eternity by leaving the fake church…or even allowing a doubt to enter their minds. I think they’re admirable, and I said so.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Wait a minute… who is “throwing around the heroes label?” Or did I miss something??? I see a good, encouraging comment with a healthy dose of admiration. Nothing more, nothing less.

          • Sherbet

            Thanks, 3D.

        • GlibWog

          WTF?

        • Grant C

          OK, I’m putting my foot down. Jeb is a troll.

          Sorry, Jeb.

          • DeElizabethan

            Haha. That, or he just needs to learn a whole lot more.

            • Grant C

              Sorry, I defended the dunce for too long. He’s completely disingenuous.

              “Why it might take a little courage to leave…, disconnection or not.”

              Fuck off, can’t believe I defended you

              No normal person would say “disconnection or not”

            • DeElizabethan

              I know what you mean. I’ve read him from the start and it’s puzzling only a bit.

            • Jeb Burton

              LRH himself said, Failure or refusal to disconnect from a suppresive person is a supressive act in itself. Maybe I am wrong, but dont scientolgists know this? I think disconnection is what is going to bring the cult down so maybe the act itself will eventually be what ends DM’s reign. The ex scientolgist always seem to be surprised by the hideous act of disconnection. But dont they participate in it when they are in?

        • Grant C

          “Please be careful about throwing around the heroes label for people who
          entered into scientology on their own accord and then leave.”

          Is that you COB?

          • Jeb Burton

            You got me. Damn.

      • GlibWog

        Well, Thanks A lot Sherbet ..You have me in tears! … Of course we never-ins are humbled.
        But the never ins who offer support and kindness and laughter and tears are awesome too.. ( I wasn’t talkin bout me) So many spreading the word. Some in the Trenches, some just giving a pillow or a hug when a ” Soldier ” is down.

        • Sherbet

          Here’s a Kleenex, GlibWog. And thank you.

          • GlibWog

            sniff.. I’m just feeling all sensitive today in the Bunker. So many wonderful things are happening as the ” Drawfemeister’s Reign ” is crumbling…

          • DeElizabethan

            Thank you for sharing your tears and laughter as needed, like a true friend. <3

            • Sherbet

              Group hug, De!

        • DeElizabethan

          And thanks to you and all the never-ins, real people, who Understand and have Compassion for others.
          Hugs to you all!

          • GlibWog

            Thank you DeElizabethan .. I wish I could have joined when I was lurkin in VV.. Thanks to Disq I feel better. Such a Rabbit hole.. I try to explain to my husband who doesn’t understand my obsession.

            It’s NOT that he doesn’t have compassion. He just hasn’t put the hours and hours of reading and research and connecting all the dots. One has to do that to get the true picture.

            A single story.. OK Leah left the church.. He’s like, ” Ok she left the church. ” He does not have the first clue the magnitude of her doing that. I think he thinks I’m nuts sometimes. The stories I tell him are so far fetched. I talk about the hole and he says, ” So who has been arrested for this..” sigh..

            I’m trying I’m trying .. but with others who have read the books that I have given them..At least THEY get it.

            • DeElizabethan

              I know how you are trying and what you contribute is valuable. Some people don’t want to learn or get it (yet) so we concentrate on those who do. Love your comments. Dee <3

            • GlibWog

              Awww thank you. Yes I have a big mouth..hahaha so am spreading the word. I can’t imagine NOT being obsessed. Forget Reality TV.. It has Nothin over Scn. NOTHIN. <3

            • DeElizabethan

              Sooooo true!

    • DodoTheLaser

      P.S. Every time I refresh the above youtube vid, there is one more view – I smile.

    • Observer

      omg, the vid is great but Patty’s pics on the WWP thread had me guffawing. The bit with the paper license plates is sheer genius!

  • Alice Smith

    What about breaking up business? Has the CofS gotten sued for that?? Any stories, Tony?

  • DodoTheLaser

    Good article and more on Tony’s book.

    [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/rk4npc.png[/IMG]

    From Capital New York.
    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2013/08/8532695/catching-former-village-voice-editor-tony-ortega

  • aquaclara

    I am so glad we all got to share in the awards from the SP Party. Thanks, Pooks, so much for this, and for recording it so that we could all enjoy the awards from afar! They were truly well-deserved.
    And thanks, too, for the smiles and laughter to balance out all the tears.

  • monkeyknickers

    I could barely listen to this. In fact, I had to stop in the middle. I’m a wimp.

    Because I:

    a) want to smack her,

    b) want to hug her, and

    c) want to wish away that Sindy and her husband (Husband, right?) had to go thru the excruciating process of watching people they loved and trusted throw them under the bus. It’s a kind of mourning.

    Then I clicked on Tony’s link to Sindy’s article for the Tampa Bay cats, and got as far as

    “A Scientologist since 1985, Fagen, now 50 . . . ”

    I almost passed out. And it wasn’t because a fetus has been kicking my spleen all day.

    FIFTY? No fucking way. Whatever face cream Synthia Fagen is using is plainly the one I need to buy, like . . . yesterday. If someone would’ve asked my opinion (and seriously, why DON’T they? I clearly know everything.) I wouldn’t have placed her above early 40s. I’m not blowing sunshine, kids. Go look at that interview on the Tampa Bay site.

    I realize this is not germane. But still. Sue me.

    Not really. Don’t sue me. Blood/stone – that kind of thing.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      This post made my whole day!!

      • monkeyknickers

        Well I’m glad I could return the favor, funny girl! 🙂

        • Casabeca

          Cult watching is serious, but looking ten years younger? Super serious!

      • Sandy

        Thank you for sticking up for me last night! I did not mean to cause a fuss, but you headed it all off. You are the best and a true friend. I was afraid to look at last night’s posts – for fear I made an ass out of myself, but you covered it. What a woman!!!!!

    • Synthia Fagen

      LOL…never saw this before. Thanks!

  • TheLurkingHorror

    It’s just so sad. I don’t know what else to say.

  • Guest

    Forced disconnection used to be quaite a potent tool to keep their members in line. I believe that the effectivity of this tool has started to decline.

    .

    • DeElizabethan

      It seems to be, but because of what Vinay? Exposure and communication! Through Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker and expertise in printing the truth, that other news outlets are picking this up and exposing this to the public. People are becoming aware of the evils of this cult and doing something about it.
      Thanks for all the help you can give it.

  • Vinay Agarwala

    Forced disconnection used to be quite a potent tool of the Church of Scientology to keep their members in line. I believe that the effectivity of this tool has started to decline.

    • Grant C

      It has indeed, my friend. Scientology and its evil tricks have started to decline.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Off topic: not sure if this is Disqus glitches or what, but when I up voted some comments a few minutes ago, instead of my nick it was “Roger Peritone”. Password changed. Just a heads up.

    • Sherbet

      I noticed that name on one of my up votes, and it didn’t sound familiar at all. Now I get it, Dodo.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thank you. It’s just weird. Hopefully just a glitch.

    • marti

      I was automatically logged out an hour ago. Never had that happen.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thanks for your input. That happened to me before 2 or 3 times within a year.

        It’s odd, but may be it’s a time out thing.

        Now logging in with my own email and password and ending up posting (or rather up voting) as “Roger Peritone” person, who has his own history of posts – that’s a first time for me.

        Is that a hack? Is that a glitch? I really don’t know. Tony or Scott, can you ask Disqus people?

      • If you use the SeaMonkey browser, it automatically logs you into the Disqus system, so you might download it and try it to see what happens. I’ve had one of my Disqus IDs given the wrong password, so it might be some sort of glitch in the system.

        • DodoTheLaser

          ” I’ve had one of my Disqus IDs given the wrong password, so it might be some sort of glitch in the system.”

          I wonder if that’s what happened with me and “Roger Peritone” today. Thanks.

    • DeElizabethan

      Invasion of BT’s sent from OSA to Disqus?

      • DodoTheLaser

        Lol. Who knows. I try not to be too paranoid, because that’s what OSA wants its critics to be.
        So I just report what is. Kind of like Tony, but on a lot smaller scale.

        • DeElizabethan

          LoL I was only making fun. I don’t believe that stuff anyway. Should someone take it serious, all they have to do is tell them to leave! I like to make fun and am mischievous these days. Not to worry. Good work on your friends.

    • i-Betty

      That is very blinkin’ odd!

  • xjohnuk

    An amazing discussion!

  • Cunning Stunt

    i’m listening to this, thinking about how there’s apparently “no such policy as disconnection,” and an old adage comes to mind. . .”are you gonna believe me, or your lying eyes?” in this case, ears. SMH. fucking hell.

  • KJP in Portland

    In advance, please forgiving me for going off-topic; wild-hair and definitely thinking ‘outside the box’ here:

    Me: “Why can’t the US government effectively go after this cult when clearly there is all the
    fraud, abuse, tax-evasion, and I’ll bet offshore laundering of money?”

    1) Is it because the US government recognizes the value of $ci’s surveillance and mind-control methods and ‘learning’ these very techniques from them, in order to enhance the government’s own techniques? Which ‘could’ explain why we see no decisive government action against them, when clearly so many different ‘crimes’ happen inside and outside Scatology. I mention all the above, especially in the wake of 9/11 and the subsequent establishment of the Homeland Security Dept. Maybe the LRH crap has been of some use to the government? (Gawd, I hope not).

    or…

    2) Does the US government think its useless to spend maybe billions to shut this scam down and they don’t have the resources to take it on?

    This very scenario has been on my mind for days. What is the government waiting for? Another Jonestown? Another Waco? Another Heavens Gate?

    • DavidaRochelle

      How can the US gov’t sue an org that has literally unlimited funds and determination to counter sue and attack, by all means necessary, legal and not?

      • KJP in Portland

        That’s why I was thinking the government would think its useless to spend that kind of money to shut them down. Perhaps the real way they will go down and become part of the dustbin of history, is their own self-implosion, as we are witnessing now.

        • Captain Howdy

          The U.S government is one ginormous Idle Morgue.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            this is scientific fact. the way out is the exit door. don’t stop to smell the daisies or sign a gag order.

            • DeElizabethan

              bump^^^^^^^^

    • Robert Eckert

      It is the government’s experience with Jonestown, Waco, and the FLDS that makes them wary of raiding a cult and ending up blamed for the disaster by a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

      • Lurkness

        Very wary. See also Tony’s articles from his previous post about 1977 opinion columns.

        • Lurkness

          Also, and please do not take this as a criticism of Tony O who has his obligations as a journalist and reporter, but frankly I more than suspect it does not help potential investigations of Scientology with the leaks by those who disclose when agencies show interest, are doing interviews, asking questions and seeking assistance. Not only do such disclosures activate $cientology PR, paid advocates and the calling in of “safe-pointing” connections, it frustrates and discourages investigative agents and agencies that prefer to do such investigations quitely and thoroughly outside the limelight.

    • John P.

      #1 is definitely not the case. We at Global Capitalism HQ have had former CIA interrogators come in and advise us on interview techniques to put CEOs and CFOs under the microscope. I think one of the partners saw an article about those guys and wanted to bring them in for the coolness factor. There were some useful techniques, but all the good stuff they can’t tell us about.

      Hubbard offered the e-meter and his auditing checklists to a number of governments when he was sailing around on the ship, to help them root out anti-government protestors in exchange for giving him a place to hang out and avoid the heat in the UK and the US. Remember that the e-meter dates back to the 1930s, in approximately the form that Hubbard standardized on. Lie detectors are enormously more sophisticated, even back then, and certainly more so today. Despite several decades of improved technology, polygraph equipment is still only slightly better than using a dartboard to determine the truth of an interviewee’s subjects. Effective interrogation uses very different techniques. So I’m quite certain it’s not #1.

      It’s more like #2. The problem is that the government as a whole has unlimited resources, but individual components of the government do not, because of the budget process. As I commented here when Tony broke a detailed story about how the DoJ decided against prosecuting the cult on human rights grounds, the decision was likely due to the cost and uncertainty of a trial, plus the lack of PR value for “deterrent effect” for similarly situated cults. That investigation would have been prosecuted by the US Attorney for Human Rights and Special Cases, the newest section of the US Attorney’s office. A $30 million trial (a reasonable estimate given the cult’s ability to screw around with the legal process) would have sucked up the majority of that section’s revenue, where they could do a lot of good in the world putting dozens of people smuggling immigrants into the US behind bars for the same sum.

      The government is not “waiting for another Jonestown.” You can’t reasonably predict events like that. I am sure Scientology remains on the government radar scope. But they won’t act until they have a case that they are confident of winning at reasonable cost and that might also serve as a deterrent for others. I’m not saying that’s the way it should be, but that is the reality. The government needs to get enough “bang for the buck” in prosecuting the cult before they will act. I don’t think this is a millenialist cult that will have even the few drones left at Int Base commit suicide and go out in a blaze of glory. I think they’re too scared for that.

      • KJP in Portland

        Thank you, John. You cleared up a quandary for me.

      • Grant C

        And Uncle Sam surely is applauding Tony’s work here, in the hope that exposing the filth of scientology like this will obviate the need for anything more severe.

      • Lurkness

        LOL–“all the good stuff they can’t tell us about.” Sounds like that is coming straight from the mouth of James Jesus Angelton himself in his heyday. Despite security clearances, interview techniques and processes, see, for example, Snowden, Manning, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, John Walker Family, Falcon (Christopher Boyce) and Snowman (Andrew Daulton Lee), Edward Earl Pitts, Johnathon Pollard,…. to name a few publicly known. Yeah, they have the good stuff to catch the bad apples.

        • Lurkness

          Should note, yes, those named above were ultimately caught (many after years and even decades of spying and working against US interests), but not because of the security checks and processes they were regularly required to undergo.

        • John P.

          Believe me, I’m not claiming that the best in interrogation is all that good. The point was that what does work in interrogation takes a lot of time (sometimes years to get a subject to open up — and I’m not talking about torture here), a highly trained interrogator, and a lot of luck. And it has nothing to do with a polygraph machine. Incidentally, the same body of knowledge that works in interrogation works in thwarting it, so a trained spy can often beat a skilled interrogator. Not talking James Bond stuff, just some techniques that can be learned through repetitive practice.

          Most of the names you mentioned were process failures such as poor physical security, not noticing frequent large deposits on bank statements, or clerks making $30,000 per year driving brand new Mercedes to work. They were not failures of interrogation, other than routine polygraphs which seem to function more to keep people paranoid than to actually unveil traitors.

          • Lurkness

            Yes, all true. Aldrich and Hanssen were expecially good at beating the poly because of their training. Simple and regular credit report checking would have greatly helped too, as you note. The best interrogators (I suppose like those auditors praised here occassionally and at various sites) are the ones who intently LOOK at, and carefully LISTEN to, their subjects, not the polygraph/e-meter or other things. Micro expressions do have validity, but subject to interpretation too. Takes years of training at best and most often innate abilities (I call it the hyper/spider-mom sense). Have seen some who can accurately make a call simply by asking for identification and the subject’s reaction to that question alone. Later, look at the video and ask them to explain why they knew something was amiss, and it is very difficult to describe, document, and teach.

            • Nevermore

              Reminds me of a conversation with MI5 recruiting, where they told me I/any other potential employee would have the opportunity to sit down and tell them ALL my secrets (scarily like $ciloonery, that!) so that they’d know about them and there’d be no blackmail potential left. ‘Even the sex and drugs?’ I asked. ‘We’re not that worried about them, It’s always the financial stuff that interests us. And our opposite numbers.’ was the reply.

      • Cher

        John, I completely agree with you. After the Waco debacle the government is reticent to take any action,. I’m sure government is watching but isn’t going to act until they are compelled to do so.

        The only reason that the government got involved with Jonestown was because families of the “followers” put huge amounts of pressure on their state reps. That is why Leo Ryan got involved. He then put pressure on the powers that be to allow him to spearhead a welfare check on the followers in Guyana. And we all know how that turned out.

        As for Waco, they didn’t go after them because of the abuse David Koresh was heaping on his followers but because of their stock pile of guns. I think if the government does go after CofS it wont be because of human trafficking or how they treat their followers it will be for another reason.

      • Jgg2012

        Remember that, in Waco, the govt. had a valid arrest warrant for a serious crime (child abuse) and was nonetheless shot at and looked stupid. Yes, that is exactly the worry here. Sea Org members have been coached on how to lie to law enforcement and will say what Shelly said. Many people will say “but it’s a religion!” and not understand. Better to just target Davey for income tax evasion, but that creates a new problem: where is Davey?

  • Lurkness

    Tony, a possible update for you.
    Tommy (“Thomas”–his preferred monikor for a bit after leaving at least the Sea Org) Davis, may no longer be in Austin, Texas as noted above in your article.
    He may actually be much closer to Mom and Dad again, living/working since January in Santa Monica, CA for Colony Capital. This is the same firm (Colony Capital) that hired him in Austin, Texas. He now is serving as the Special Assistant to the Chairman of Colony Capital (that would be Tom Barrick).
    See his updated linkedIn profile here and note he is using “Tommy” (as opposed to Thomas) again and no longer hiding his $cientology past in his work background:

    http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=242477706&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=qMZZ&locale=en_US&srchid=168963651376360876527&srchindex=3&srchtotal=11220&trk=vsrp_people_res_name&trkInfo=VSRPsearchId%3A168963651376360876527%2CVSRPtargetId%3A242477706%2CVSRPcmpt%3Aprimary

    • Lurkness

      Colony Capital and Tom Barrick, BTW, are headquartered in Santa Monica.

    • TonyOrtega

      Yes, I broke the news of his job with Colony back in June…

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/12/tommy-davis-and-jessica-feshbach-new-jobs-and-new-lives-for-scientologys-former-mouthpieces/

      While he may be spending some time in LA because of his job, he was still based in Austin the last time I checked.

      • Lurkness

        Yes, followed your great reporting on this, of course. Added the note, since he has substantially changed his linkedIn profile since your report. Including his new position as “Special Assisstant to the Chairman” of Colony Capital. As you note, he also currently shows on linkedIn that he is working for Colony American Homes in Austin. THANK YOU for your always quick and on the spot responses! Keep up the fantastic work, it is much appreciated.

        • TonyOrtega

          He changed that title within days of our story. But the name change is more recent. Good to hear he’s back to “Tommy.” That’s what I addressed him as in the latest email I sent that he ignored.

          • Krew13

            This is my favourite Tommy Davis moment, when Martin Bashir asks him about Xenu and Tommy boy just walks out in a huff.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NndeqCwjHpk

          • Espiando

            Wake me up when he changes his name to Tomas Daviz and lists his occupation as “Flamenco Dancer”.

    • DeElizabethan

      Without looking at this just want to say that LinkedIn may not be completely accurate. I suspect one for Marty Rathbun on it. I believe his only endorsements can be for fiction and novels and just doesn’t sound like him. But who knows?

    • DeElizabethan

      I stand corrected (can’t find my post for edit) Looks like he’s in both areas to present time.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Having two friends over at my place for a dinner right now.
    They are out of the “church”, but not officially yet.
    Meaning it’s well known now that they are “disaffected”, but not declared yet.

    They brought a pie with them, it’s delicious.

    Lots of questions from them – lots of answers from me.
    The bay area news is just a beginning.

    • Grant C

      Awesome! Tell them to spread the word!

      • DodoTheLaser

        They were approached by two churchies a few days ago in a passive-aggressive fashion.
        Telling them how everything is great now and will get a lot better so very soon, because of the golden age of drek phase 2, and how they need to route out standardly and pay for all the courses they did on staff, if they choose to leave. Anyways, my friends just laughed at them and that was it.

    • Lurkness

      Pie is a great start, let us know, please, when they bring caek!!!

      • DodoTheLaser

        Haha! Good one! I sure will. 🙂

        • GlibWog

          Oh Dodo that is fabulous.. really and on top of their company and gabbing..PIE? Doesn’t get much better than that..

          ( Can’t wait until they are finally out. On the way out..? Yep that is great! )

      • Lurkness

        or popcorn.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Good news! Every one is a little break in the wall.

    • DeElizabethan

      Luv ya Bro!

      • DodoTheLaser

        Luv my sis! <3

        • Cher

          Bay Area? Hi neighbor! I live close to Sacramento.

          • DodoTheLaser

            Nah, I was referring to this: http://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-special-correspondent-report-from-the-bay-area/

            As a point of reference/comparison. Cincinnati Ideal SP here.

            Nice to meet you, regardless, fellow American! 🙂

            • Cher

              Ha! I’m an idiot! 🙂

              Always nice to meet another SP. I’m a ” never been in” near Sacramento. Which, I’ll have you know, has a pretty damn empty ideal org.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Nice to meet another fellow idiot, but I can assure you that I am more idiot than you are!
              No offense. Thanks for the update on the empty ideal org of Sacramento!

            • Cher

              Ha! It would take a lot more than that to offend me!

              I think I just might give you a run for your money on the idiot point though! 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              🙂 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              I’m pretty sure my Ideal org is emptier than yours though.
              On a second thought – it’s probably a perfect match.
              Will they even have LRH Bday Game Event in March 2014, I wonder?

  • Grant C

    I hope everyone with a clear sky this evening takes a look at the Perseids meteor shower!

    • DodoTheLaser

      Thank you! Hoping some people took pictures.

      [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/os4ya1.jpg[/IMG]

      More?

  • DodoTheLaser

    Note to the lurkers – if HCO/DSA tells you “Take care of yourself”, that probably means that your SP declare is approved and authorized. Kind of like kiss of death in the older political days. Except you are free and alive now.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      I guess the last person left in the church will have to turn off the lights.

      • DodoTheLaser

        If the electric bill paid, that is.

  • DodoTheLaser
  • Krew13

    The Cruisemeister, David Miscmidget, Tommy Boy Davis – is there something about the COS that attracts pint sized dicks with a Napoleon complex?

  • Krew13

    I went to KFC and made my meal an XL. I listened to PYT by MJ, after which I took out my BD of T2 and watched it on my LCD with THX.

    Now, imagine having to use abbreviations and acronyms all day every day but ones that are completely meaningless and the arbitrary inventions of a diseased mind. At least the ones above mean something.

    • i-Betty

      Love it!

  • pronoia

    Hey Everyone!

    I bought a ticket for The TomKat Project on the 15th and now it it turns out that I will have a work related engagement that evening which I absolutely cannot get out of :(((. So – If anyone is out there who wants to go or who is already going and would like to offer it to a friend, let me know where to email the ticket (you will have to pick it up at will call under my real name) and it is yours.

    Soo sooo soo sad to be missing out but such is life. I will be watching the comments. If you are nervous about sharing email here perhaps the proprietor or someone else who is known amongst us can help with the email transfer.

    • TonyOrtega

      15th? First night it’s at the NYC Fringe is the afternoon of the 20th.

      • pronoia

        Aaargh! I just checked the date on my ticket on my email and you are right. For some weird reason it ended up in my calender on the 15th. I have a ticket for the 21st (whew!). It has really really been one of those days…..

  • ThetaBara

    Oh, Sindy. And that poor woman. Heartbreaking.
    How can those thugs think it is acceptable to do that to people?!

  • Serai 1

    Way back in the 70’s, when walking along Hollywood Blvd., a friend and I
    decided to go into the Scientology place and take one of those tests, just for
    schits and giggles. It was creepy. The guy who sat me down literally behaved
    like a robot – his voice had this flat lack of affect, and he did that
    eyes-first-then-head kind of movement that you see Ahnult doing in “The
    Terminator”. I took the test, and then this guy took me into a cubicle and
    told me how the test “shows us that you are…*robotic head movement*…a
    loser.” I’ll never forget that. I know I keep saying this, but it really
    was just like being scolded by Robbie the Robot. I had a really hard time
    keeping in my laughter as he went on to tell me what all my “loser”
    problems were, and how they could all be solved if I would just sign up for
    this course…which of course cost far more money than I would even consider
    giving these weird, weird people. I flat out refused, and after some poking and
    prodding, the guy let me go. I met my friend outside, who reported almost
    exactly the same thing, and we cracked up wondering just how this could EVER
    work on anybody.

    I grew up about three blocks from the big Scientology complex on Fountain
    Ave., so I’ve seen this robot army since I was a kid, when they took over the
    old hospital complex and turned it into a freaky temple of Weird. (It’s
    especially weird at night, when they light that enormous blue SCIENTOLOGY sign
    on the top that makes the whole building look like a block of ice. Seriously,
    it reminds of nothing so much as the Overlook Hotel from Stephen King’s
    “The Shining”.) I’ve watched as they slowly took over the whole
    neighborhood, filling the houses with their minions and buying out all the
    businesses. (New York George, your pastrami sandwiches and chocolate egg creams
    are sorely missed!)

    In the 80’s, my (ex-)husband worked for a couple of Scientologists (he
    didn’t know they were when they hired him) and one day he was asked to go to
    the complex to drop off some papers. He asked me if I wanted to come along, and
    I said, “Are you kidding? HELL YEAH.” Oh boy, was it ever creepy.
    First of all, these people have security guards badgering people ON THE STREET.
    A public street, which they certainly do not own, yet there they are, as if it
    were a feudal kingdom. We went into the main building, and while my husband did
    his thing with the papers, I got to look around the waiting area. There was a
    TV showing Lord L.Ron in a suit with that ridiculous pseudo-Navy braided thing
    over his chest, desultorily nattering about something or other – it sounded
    like pure insane babbling to my untrained ears, of course. What impressed me
    was how utterly dispirited and drained and sick he looked. (Later on, the
    sci-fi author Norman Spinrad, who had known Hubbard back in his salad days,
    told me about how weird it was to watch him go insane the way he did.) The
    other thing was WEIRDED ME OUT was The Office – a precise replica of Hubbard’s
    private office, roped off with red velvet, with the door ajar so the faithful
    could peek in and worship the Sacred Diorama. Apparently there is one of these
    in every Scientology center on Earth. THAT was seriously freaky. We had some
    fun later on breaking the experience down and trying to decide what was
    strangest and most unsettling about the whole thing. OY.