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Hysterical Hyper-Sight, and Other Lost Concepts of Dianetics

XrayVisionWelcome to our ongoing project, where we blog a 1950 first edition of Scientology’s bible, Dianetics, with the help of ex-Scientologist, Bay Area lawyer, blogger, and author Vance Woodward. Go here for the first post in the series.

Vance, in the chapter “Diagnosis,” L. Ron Hubbard gets down to specifics, instructing an auditor how to assess the preclear that he’ll be counseling.

We were surprised when Hubbard suddenly started talking about hysterical blindness and hysterical deafness. Both are outdated concepts that became popular as diagnoses in the 19th century. Today, doctors refer to them as conversion disorder, but the idea of someone being totally blind or deaf from “hysteria” seems a dated idea.

Hubbard says, however, that most folks are suffering from a version of this, which either hinders or enhances their vision or hearing.

This is how he describes someone with “hypo-hearing,” who has some deafness, apparently caused by engrams and not something wrong with his ears…

This patient has something he is afraid to hear. He plays the radio very loudly, makes people repeat continually and misses pieces of the conversation.

Someone who has “hypo-sight” has a hard time making things out with his eyes…

The patient who is always losing something when it lies in fair view before him, who misses signposts, theater bills and people who are in plain sight is “hysterically” blind to some degree. He is afraid he will see something.

Then there’s the person who sees too well, which he calls “hyper-sight”…

A girl, for instance, who sees something or thinks she sees something but knows she doesn’t and is very startled, who jumps in fright when anyone silently comes into a room and can be so startled rather habitually, is suffering from extended sight.

And someone who over-perceives sounds is said to have “hyper-hearing”…

A person who is alarmed by noises, by sounds in general, by certain voices, who gets a headache or gets angry when the people around are “noisy” or the door slams or the dishes rattle, is a victim of extended hearing.

Since these conditions are caused by engrams, Hubbard supposes that these victims, when they were unconscious (or in the womb, perhaps) were in the presence of someone who shouted “Don’t see! Don’t hear!” and it has affected them the rest of their lives.

So it’s the auditor’s first job to decide where his preclear is on this scale.

Vance, did any of this stick around for Scientology of more recent years?

VANCE: None of it stuck around. Remember, Scientology came shortly after Dianetics. Consequently, Dianetics was essentially relegated to the status of a gateway drug used to get people hooked on the expensive stuff: Scientology. And Scientology’s Bridge to Total Freedom — the sequence of auditing procedures that Scientologists wade through on their way to financial ruin — is very much one size fits all. By that I mean the entire notion of diagnosis mostly went out the window with Scientology. With the Bridge, everybody gets the same set of processes in the same sequence, more or less.

That said, I’d say that most Scientologists are completely aware of the misogynistic roots of the word hysterical, and they are as reluctant to use the word as anybody else these days. Obviously that kind of sensitivity completely eluded Hubbard, but I’ll give modern Scientologists what credit is due on that point.

THE BUNKER: Well, for all that fuss about over-perception and under-perception, Hubbard ends up suggesting to the beginning auditor that he choose someone who seems to be of average sight and hearing in order to avoid complications. And so much for this chapter. So with our very average preclear, we’ll press on to the next chapter next week.

Next week — Dianetics is Not Hypnosis — Well, Except For That “You Are Feeling Sleepy” Part

 
——————–

Fresh Out of the Cincinnati Ideal Org

We’re going to reach out to the young woman who made this video about her brother, who has apparently fled his job on staff at Cincinnati’s Ideal Org, which was opened just last year.

Earlier, “Storm Zara” had shot some video inside the org, making her brother rather nervous. But now, he’s apparently ditched the place. His account is interesting, and we’re hoping there’s more to the story…

 

 
There’s so much going on in the Bunker this week. We want to thank our readers for the huge response to our story on Shelly Miscavige and the International Base yesterday. It even got noticed over at Daily Kos.

We have a lot more good stuff coming…

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on April 18, 2013 at 07:00

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If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • FistOfXenu

    “Hubbard supposes that these victims, when they were unconscious (or in the womb, perhaps) were in the presence of someone who shouted “Don’t see! Don’t hear!””

    Sure he did because people do that a lot. You see it all the time, people just wandering around looking for unconscious people and pregnant women so they can shout “don’t see! don’t hear!” It’s worse in hospitals where doctors and nurses shout that in delivery rooms. It’s because they’re working for evil psychs, and they do it so they can create the next generation of deaf and blind patients.

    Why don’t we start a huge campaign to shout around unconscious people and pregnant women “$cientology is all lies and horseshit! Don’t believe $cientology!” By Liar Ron Humptydumpty’s logic we should be able to create a generation of people that refuse to become Ronbots.

    Damn! Hubbard was such an evil asshat!

    • Observer

      Even worse, he was a pompous evil asshat.

      • FistOfXenu

        Yup. I don’t mind old men spouting ignorant half-baked opinions. Hell, I’m one of those now. Spouting is good for the soul. But I mind when they expect people to treat those ignorant half-baked opinions like they’re true and punish people for challenging them. I can see why some old time scifi writers were willing to sit around with LRH back before he turned his horseshit into a religion, and shoot the shit with him over some drinks. Back then when he could spin a yarn without expecting you to believe it, I guess it was fun in a way to get drunk to the sound of his adventure fairy tales. Until you got tired of the sound of his voice and his unrelenting nack for telling stories that didn’t even try to sound true. But when he expected people to believe it and pay money for it, that was time to put him away someplace. Like a padded room.

        • RMycroft

          Oh, he expected people to believe the tall tales about himself. In Bafe-Faced Messiah p.67, there’s an account of Frank Gruber, who sat listening to an evening of Hubbard, while totaling up the years:

          `Ron, you’re eighty-four years old aren’t you?’

          `What the hell are you talking about?’ Ron snapped.

          Gruber waved a notebook in which he had been jotting figures `Well,’ he said, `you were in the Marines seven years, you were a civil engineer for six years, you spent four years in Brazil, three in Africa, you barnstormed with your own flying circus for six years … I’ve just added up all the years you did this and that and it comes to eighty-four.’

          Ron was furious that his escapades should be openly doubted. `He blew his tack,’ said Gruber.[5] He would react in the same way at the Guild lunches if someone raised an eyebrow when he was in full flow. Most of the other members *expected* their yarns to be taken with a pinch of salt, but not Ron. It was almost as if he believed his own stories.

          • FistOfXenu

            I know that story. Love it. I think you must be right that he expected to be believed. But I think mainly in that story LRH hated that he was being called a liar, out and out. I should’ve said he assumed people would just accept the horseshit without thinking. I guess that means he expected them to believe so yeah, you’re right. But at that time in his life he maybe didn’t think about it much and just assumed people believed him because he expected people to love him. But later when he started the cult he turned it into a crime for anybody to call him a liar. Bet not a lot of $cientologists ever said, “Ron, you shitting me?”

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yet people did believe it. This is the part that I just cannot grasp. Dianetics is absolute rubbish. Just goofy strings of words that don’t even try to make sense. And yet it was a best seller and became a fad. How? WTF.
          The people who followed Hubbard created the monster he became. He did not do this in a vacuum.

          • Poison Ivy

            “He did not do this in a vacuum.” No. Sadly.

    • Snippy_X

      I think he hypo-heard Romper Room’s message about “do bees and don’t bees” mixed with “the birds and the bees”, “lions and tigers and bears” and the Hubbard imagines people overusing the phrase “Don’t see! Don’t hear!” Insights like this require just the right combinations of drugs.

    • jensting

      The Phat Fraud was simply perfecting his drug “auditine” which hooks the victim by making them believe that there are things wrong with them, and that doing “auditing” relieves the symptoms which leads to a self-suggested feeling of well-being after auditing. Once that post-hypnotic well-being has been drilled into the victim, they’ll forever be unhappy except when they’re coming out of “session.”
      Me, I prefer a different sense of well-being, but it works better when there’s two of you to do it 😉

  • FistOfXenu

    I feel bad for Zara’s brother. He knows $cientarCONon was screwing him but he still has no idea what was really going on. he still thinks it was just bad pay and long hours! How much of the clam aid did he drink? How much of their weird shit does he believe?

    • BosonStark

      That was my first reaction. When I thought about it though, I think it’s good that a cult worker or Sea Org member makes ANY connection that makes them leave, even if it’s they’re working too hard for the low pay. He’ll make more connections as he learns more details of the system.

      How many cult workers who have doubts will instead, allow themselves to undergo security checking, or months/years of trying to route out properly, while thinking of any supportive relatives who want them out as SPs? The connections people come up with are different. That he made a connection between the fake glory of winning the Birthday Game, by suckering in an award-winning number of dupes, with too much work and stinky pay, is fine for now. If only more young people would think about that, and get out while they’re still young.

      • FistOfXenu

        You’re right BosonStark, Anything that gets him out is a good thing, and he can learn more later. Thanks. 🙂

    • Spackle Motion

      I watched the first video by Storm Zara, as linked to by Tony, and I’d say that there’s something else going on here besides the long hours and shitty pay. In the first video this poor kid says something like, “They want me to do something very secret….I can’t tell you”.

      This kid either was hoodwinked into thinking he was going to do the secret OT levels (which aren’t a secret but this kid obviously doesn’t Google) or he was being hoodwinked into doing some basic OSA secret spai stuff. They must be really desperate to rope in a new staff member, if it is OSA related.

      But I doubt it was just the low pay and long hours. I think they were abusing him in some shape or form and he doesn’t want to talk about it. He was avoiding a lot of the questions and reluctantly giving information to his sister.

      • Midwest Mom

        The brother is definitely still in the haze of the Sci-mentality. He’s not free from their influence and I hope that he can fully break free from the Co$ and Hubbard’s nonsense.

        I applaud the sister who made these videos and posted them. She is a doll! She is also on to the con of Scientology, and her brother probably doesn’t realize how fortunate he is to have a sister who is willing to do whatever it takes to help him move on to a better life, free from Scientology.

        Storm Zara, I am incredibly proud of you. You are fantastic! Let us know how we can help.

  • Observer

    This chapter of Dianetics has made me hysterical. With lulz. Old Ronnie had apparently never been a round a normal person because he had no idea how normal people talk. I’ve been on this planet for over half a century and have yet to observe anyone bellowing “Don’t see! Don’t hear!” loudly enough to be heard by someone still in utero.

    Good for that kid for getting out. I hope he’s left Scamatology behind completely.

    • FistOfXenu

      He was around plenty of normal people, but I think he never WAS a normal person.

      You should come with me on my outings, Observer. The world is chock full of people all in service to the evil psychs, sneaking up on unconscious people and especially pregnant women. They disguise what they’re doing so that’s probably why you missed it. Next time look for people that look like they have a coughing fit or a sneezing fit and listen close. If you really hear only coughing or sneezing they’re innocent. But if you hear “coughcoughdon’thearcoughcough” or “sneezesneezedon’tseesneezesneeze”, you’ve caught a servant of the evil psychs at work! Believe me, they’re everywhere. But be careful. If they catch you they’ll gang up on you and gang-cough or gang-sneeze you, and before you know what happened you’ll be unconscious and when you wake up you’ll be deaf or blind.

      • Observer

        I guess that explains why 23 years ago my ears started ringing–multiple tones in each ear–and haven’t stopped since. An evil psych minion must have knocked me out, shrieked “You can hear me clear as a bell! CLEAR AS A BELL!” and made his or her getaway before I came to. Diabolical!

        • FistOfXenu

          I acknowledge your cognition. The reactive mind is very literal. This is a serious problem but I’m very clear that the tech can fix this. Now if you’ll just let me have your credit card we can take care of payment and begin your session.

        • Captain Howdy

          Is was either that or the Motorhead on 11

          • DodoTheLaser

            Or Ministry.

        • ParticleMom

          Ugh, have you really had tinnitus for 23 years? What evil psychs they are!

          • Observer

            Yep. I learned to tune it out early on, so I’m usually not aware of it.

  • jensting

    we’re still waiting for the Isabela Cruise story 😉

    Oh, and good choice of word to describe the victim of book one mind-fuck: patient.

  • BosonStark

    So, a person who asks you to repeat yourself, because they are getting old and deaf, is just “afraid to hear.” Must happen as the engrams age? What a loon! Even when I was 9 years old, I can’t see or hear myself doing anything other than questioning that explanation.

    I’m still thinking about your Shelly story Tony. When it was known that Wright was going to expand the Haggis story into a book, I had hopes that he would crack that story open. While I was pleased that he reviewed it very carefully, it was pretty much what we all pieced together. But, you did it!

    For me, it makes a lot of sense now. It says a lot about David Miscavige too. Shelly was probably every bit as easily controlled as Annie Broeker or other mindfkd devotee, and David could have just forgiven her and got over her transgression, realizing she was probably just trying to please him, more than threaten his power, but he couldn’t do that. It shows how inflexible and limited he is. I hope your coverage of the story will continue to resonate, and let that shaft of light in for many of the people at Gold Base, who must wonder, what happened to Shelly?

    • i-Betty

      Or he had already started a new relationship and needed an excuse to get rid of Shelly.

      • Poison Ivy

        Probably he already had a #2 waiting in the wings. But I agree with SOYS. He could not allow her to “best” him. In her desire to make things go right for him, she accidentally did the job that he’d been whining for years that only he could get right. She DID get it right. And that was her fatal mistake. Would’ve been better for her to just parrot his complaints about everyone else’s incompetence.

        • grundoon

          In Scientology there are no mistakes, only crimes.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Miscavige exiles or imprisons anyone who “shames” him. He believes everyone thinks like he does, which means he believes everyone has a hidden agenda, and no one does anything out of love or altruism. He projected onto Shelley the reason he would have filled the org charts etc., to one-up someone, and move up the ladder. Therefore, he viewed her actions as a “take over” move, and he had to remove the competition/enemy. He felt “shamed” because she did it in front of the entire base. In his mind, the only way to undo this shame, was to attack, which he did. Anyone, such as the assistant, who was involved in Shelley’s actions, was punished. If he could have, he would have punished her and the assistant much more severely as a way of insuring it would never happen again. In many ways, he reminds me of a mad (insane) king in a Shakespearean drama.

      • Casabeca

        He would rather be feared than loved.

        • FistOfXenu

          Soon he won’t be either 1. He’ll just be hated and laughed at.

      • Poison Ivy

        Well, in Scientology, there is no such thing as love or altruism, is there? I mean, isn’t there the concept of fair trade (wrong term I know)…and those who are altruistic are considered weak? That’s one of the things I hate the most about Scientology. It takes the worst facets of our human spirit and elevates them (selfishness, narcissism, hive mentality, paranoia ) and the best facets and denigrates them (altruism, loyalty, personal integrity, individualism). The other thing I hate the most is all the pseudo science jargon. “Data” and “Tech” and all that bull to describe something completely unscientific.

  • Dwayners13

    Perhaps if Hubbard had run the correct auditing procedures on the engram that caused his “hyper smelling”, the poor Sea Org members wouldn’t have had to wash his shirts out 6-7 times to ensure he could smell the soap.

    • FistOfXenu

      Perhaps if there was such a thing as “correct auditing procedures” he would’ve. 🙂

    • RMycroft

      According to Gerry Armstrong, it was “thirteen different buckets of clean water to rinse a
      shirt so he wouldn’t smell detergent on it.”

    • Missionary Kid

      The claim that he was hypersensitive to smelling soap was just a way of controlling those who were under him. I’m willing to bet that what he smelled were the scents added to detergent, not the soap, which are added to make them smell “fresh.” Having to rinse the shirts that much was part of his exercising mind control over his underlings, IMO.I know of a person who kept complaining that there was not enough salt in their food, when the solution was to grab the salt-shaker right in front of them. It was a control mechanism: things aren’t right, and it’s your fault.

      • Bob

        MK, this makes sense. As someone who experienced it first hand I never thought of it as a control mechanism. We all thought: what a super human being the Hubb is. In fact his hyper-sensitivity was super human BS to the 10th power!

        • Missionary Kid

          Yup. A part of the system of control is to make a person redo what they’ve done, after telling them it wasn’t good enough. Eventually, the victim is told that they have done it right.

          I’ll bet nobody thought to use scentless detergent in the first place, then to rinse maybe twice. The Hub had everyone scared to take a short-cut.

          Miscabbage’s assaults are also a control mechanism. By making them random, they have shock value. The fact that no-one fights back is an indication of how much power he has. Of course, eventually, someone may decide that they won’t put up with it and blow.

          • The randomness, or more specifically the capriciousness and unpredictability, of the assaults and punishments keep the captive from ever finding a formula for relief and security. That’s the way most oppressive regimes (political or religious) work. It works to instill hopelessness as completely normal and acceptable.

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly!

          • Bob

            I think they ordered every detergent known to man. For sure all the scentless ones. But I don’t think the Hubb was ever satisfied.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’d bet that there wasn’t any double-blind testing. Hubbard probably complained, knowing that something was different was tried.

              If one had made lye soap (traditional, home-made) and didn’t add scent, it would be interesting to see what the results would be. Another test would have been to take a shirt that he’d previously approved as soap free and wash it in water, but making him think it was washed with a particular detergent. I’ll bet he’d still complain. It’s all psychological.

              One didn’t dare to prove LRH wrong, so no testing like that could ever take place.

            • Bob

              MK, There was only one scientist on the Apollo. Dr. Hubbard. If he said it is true it is true. He also was allergic to the deck soaps used to clean the wooden decks. That was a trip since they were buying that by the barrel. He would stroll out on the deck and give the thumbs up or down. Drove everyone crazy.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. It’s all part of establishing and keeping psychological control.

              It drove everyone crazy because it just depended on the mood he was in.

              If he was the only “scientist” aboard, then there was no scientist aboard, and everyone was just working their asses off to please his whims.

              LRH claimed to be a scientist, but he had no background, training, or knowledge. He just tried to speak the lingo that he’d read about to give his words authority.

              The only research he did was in his imagination on the keys of his typewriter. The reason that he hated “psychs” so much was because most of their work was based upon scientific method. Yes, there were a lot of theories bandied about, but also a lot of testing took place to try to check the validity of a theory. LRH did NO testing, other than some auditing, and that was on motivated people. That usually gets positive results, simply because they believe people care about them.

              There’s research to back that up. For people who aren’t just neurotic, and have more serious problems, Co$ is a huge failure.

            • Bob

              MK, You observations are worthy of further discussion although there has been a lot of coverage in this area. Yes a failure. If you divide the successes into the amount of time and money spent per person it would be equivalent to a company that makes hammers at a cost of $100,000 per hammer and each hammer takes a minimum of 6 years to build. And if the hammer gets used to hard the head flies off.

            • Midwest Mom

              No. That’s not an equivalent comparison. Hammers don’t die, or suffer or feel the pain of disconnection or endure sleep deprivation ,brain washing, mental torture, forced abortions or have nervous breakdowns. You’re making light of the evil that came from Hubbard and is Scientology.

            • Bob

              Hardly. A company is criminal when that is the kind of product they produce. I was not making light. I don’t know your background but I lived in the middle of that criminal activity for many years. At this point I no longer hate it. I am not seeking vengeance or retribution, I am methodically doing my part to dismantle this criminal activity posing as a church.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Who was on your account Monday night?

            • Bob

              SPF, my last post was 5 days ago. I think that makes it Sunday or Saturday. Why, what did he say? Maybe there is a new Bob on the block. That would be very confusing. Since I am the first Bob I would want him to change his handle.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Disqus won’t allow 2 Bobs.. However, Disqus isn’t exactly reliable lately.. That could explain it.. Check out Tony’s “We Need Your Help, Scientology Watchers..” Bob’s comments aren’t too far down if your setting is on ‘newest..’

            • Bob

              SPF, that makes sense. And no other posts show up in my Disqus account. I will look and get back to you.

            • Captain Howdy

              Disqus won’t allow 2 bobs but they will allow a bob74. I could open an account “sugarplumfairy2” in five minutes. I can’t believe how confused some of you folks got other this. It’s like you just discovered the internet last week. it’s so simple.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thats what i thought too.. But there are two ‘Bob’ Accounts.. I checked it out by linking on the names at the top of their comments.. One is our Bob and the other commented Monday for the first time.. Prob happened when Disqus was having its seizure..

            • Bob

              SPF, I saw this persons comments. not sure how this guy or girl got on with the same name. Sounds like a very slick troll to me. Testing the waters. I will try to find out how that could happen. He did create some confusion coming on with “to many commenters who hate…..” Line. It is a very underhanded way of creating confusion. Specially regarding the subject which is Tony asking for financial support, which I endorse. How would it be if some one came on with your handle SPF. That would be really weird.
              But Bob is such a common name, but Disqus should have caught that. Unless it was a very skilled OSA hacker testing the waters.

            • Captain Howdy

              Bob, all you have to do is add a number to a name and it’s a new account. On youtube we would take a name (of someone we didn’t like) that had a small “l” in it and open an account substituting the small “l’ with a capital ‘I” and then recreate the graphics and videos they had and it was virtually indigestible from the original persons homepage. it was fun.

            • Bob

              Thanks. Whatever he did it worked. I am not that internet smart. I heard that he changed it to
              Bob 74?

            • FistOfXenu

              Like you already said SPF there really are 2 “Bob” accounts. But it looks like people are having trouble with that so I did some looking. Here are 2 screen shots. 1 is what I call “our Bob” and the other is “troll Bob”. I know if you want to be really skeptical this doesn’t prove our Bob isn’t troll Bob and if you’re skeptical enough nothing could prove that. But it proves there are definitely 2 “Bob” accounts.

              My opinion is we give benefit of the doubt and let Tony find out what’s going on from Disqus?

              You can find the 2 records of the accounts yourself, just go to tonight’s posts by Bob and click for his profile, then go to “We need your help” and find that Bob and click that profile. Presto, these 2 different accounts. Anyways here’s the 2 pictures.

            • DeElizabethan

              Way to go Fist!

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks DeElizabethan. I just hope it helps us to figure out what’s going on. I hate it when somebody gets static they don’t deserve and I don’t see that “our” Bob deserves it. Not yet I don’t.

              The way I see it our Bob needs our help and support unless more evidence proves different. And if anybody’s wondering then yes, I assume our Bob is trying to do something difficult against the cult and even if he’s not spitting flames like some of us I think he’s genuine. IMHO he’s not even drinking as much clam aid as Rathbun and people like that. And we don’t jump them every time they post.

              I also assume about troll Bob. To me he’s a different story. The only posts I saw by him are when I looked at the “We need your help” blog I used to trace his account. The posts I saw make him look trollish or like he’s maybe on his a to e or something. But they don’t read like our Bob. The read more like Bob74.

              Yeah it’s just my opinion and we all have them and all that. But problems about Bob and people suspecting him of trolling need to be solved around now.

              All just my opinion, so sue me.

            • Bella Legosi

              I have been talking to him…..seems harmless enough but I am a sociopath so whatevs

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thanks, Fist..

            • FistOfXenu

              No problem SPF. I just want to see this settled so we don’t waste time turning on each other instead of staying fixed on the real enemy. When I read what you said I figured it would be good to skip past anybody trying to decide if you looked “properly” and knew what you were doing. So I just went and got the pix. I wasn’t sure I could to be honest because I’m not a computer wiz or anything. But turned out it was easy enough and now it’s just trying to figure out how it happened. Or letting Tony handle it or something.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thanks.. I tried but couldnt do it with my phone.. And don’t worry.. We won’t turn on each other.. I adore Cap’n Howdy and he adores me back.. And Bob is growing on me..

            • Midwest Mom

              How are you helping to dismantle it? You still glorify Hubbard and work very diligently in promoting his beliefs. I’ve read your past posts and you still promote his books, which benefits the Co$. How are you not aware that purchases made from Amazon still go to the Co$? The Co$ self-publishes everything they sell, no matter how it’s sold, so they get the profits for every new book purchase. You’re still encouraging people to contribute to the Co$ and you still promote Hubbard’s beliefs and propaganda.

              You can believe whatever you want, but this site is not for promoting Hubbard, it’s to expose the truth about Hubbard and his lies and to expose the abuses and machinations of the Co$ from the early days all the way to the present time, including the deceptive front groups, rehab centers, Sea Org, and Idle Orgs.

              Hubbard was not a scientist, so don’t reference him as such, even in jest. He was not a noted philosopher or humanitarian, nor was he an expert in communications, the brain, literacy, pharmacology, drug and alcohol rehabilitation or life improvement. He flunked out of college after less than two years and is not respected by experts in any field, even in regard to his writings in Science Fiction.

              You are still a practicing Scientologist. If you have questions about the propaganda that you have been trained to believe and have difficulty understanding why and how the rest of society views Hubbard and the Co$ the way it does and sincerely seek the truth, there are many here who can help. Just ask.

            • Bob

              Midwest Mom, I understand your point of view. I assume you have experienced first hand the abuses dished out to you by people in Scientology. I have my way of going about dismantling this group and you have yours. I am sure I am as adamant about seeing Scientology go down as you are but I sometimes give my perspective and I am not a spectator. And I see the good with the bad. If you dislike me commenting on the blog please let Tony know. If he asks me to refrain from commenting I will. I have great respect for his way of doing things. But from my observations he stays out of disagreements between commenters and if something is really offensive he will stop it from being shown. Other than that this blog is a place where varying points of view can be expressed.

            • Midwest Mom

              Bob, if you are looking for help to find your way out of Hubbard’s destructive influence and the propaganda that he created, this is a great place to get help from others to sort things out. ESMB and OCMB are also wonderful resources as well as several other sites that others can recommend.

              The horrors and lies of Scientology can only be fought through the efforts of many. You don’t dismantle it; since it can be reconstructed. You destroy it, so the evil stops.

            • Bob

              Midwest Mom, this site has been of inestimable help to me in sorting things out. That means Tony and all of you steadfast commenters. I use the word dismantle because it denotes the methodical approach as opposed to the hand grenade approach. Once dismantled the infected parts will be destroyed. I agree that to wipe out the criminality and tyranny is a concerted effort by many. I am one of those many. I just have position and approach that is unique. That does not make me any better than anyone else. I just fill a particular niche in the downfall of the church.

            • DeElizabethan

              Good on ya Bob, with your particular niche.

            • Bob

              DE, thanks we all play our part.

            • Captain Howdy

              Are we sure we’re not confusing “Bob” with “Bob74”? I read Bob’s comments on a regular basis and I don’t see him promoting Hubbard at all, unless like previous folks you’re mistaking his rather low key sarcasm. Also I believe English is not Bob’s native language so that might add to the confusion.

              MM, next time you see Bob defending LRH or the tech please point it out to me.

            • sugarplumfairy

              There are two ‘Bob’ accounts and one ‘Bob74’.. Thus, there are three Bobs posting here.. Trust me on this.. What have I ever done here to make you think I’m a moron? Never mind, don’t answer that..

            • sugarplumfairy

              I think we’re having hysterical hyper-Bob sightings..

            • Midwest Mom

              His native language is English. I know what sarcasm is Captain and I also recognize intentional ambiguity for the purpose of inserting propaganda.

              There is a phrase, “Many a truth is spoken in jest”, and with propaganda, “Propaganda’s goal is achieved, when ambiguity is believed.”

            • sugarplumfairy

              I heart MWM..

            • Midwest Mom

              I luv ya back, spf. 😉

            • DeElizabethan

              Luv you MM. Thought for awhile we’d have to call in the Ethics Officer, Tony?

            • Midwest Mom

              Hiya, Dee! Luv you, too! 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re right about the damage that LRH promulgated by his untested theories.

              I’ll let Bob speak for himself, but I was talking about the scientific method, where testing takes place. I think that Bob was addressing testing in general, not testing on people.
              Psychologists try to test theories in a manner that doesn’t cause the person who’s the subject of a test any permanent harm, or, at the minimum, only mild, temporary, discomfort as willing subjects.

            • Midwest Mom

              M.K. I agree with what you said regarding the scientific method. We’re also in agreement about the lies and abuse that have been the mechanisms to control those in Scientology from its beginning with Hubbard to the present time with Miscavige.

              I’m very glad that you contribute to this site, M.K. You’re a mensch!

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank you. That made my evening. I read your compliment when I was out to dinner on my smart phone, and, since I only reply on my confuser, er, computer, this reply took a long time. There are some really sharp people on this list, and to have you glad that I’m here, among them, makes me glad. (Of course, it doesn’t mean I’m as sharp as they are) 😉

              I have a soft spot for Bob because I believe he truly has been hurt by Co$, and he realizes the depth of the indoctrination that he was subjected to, but he was fed so much bad information that it’s being difficult for him to sort out the facts from the fictions he was taught while he was “in.”

              I don’t always agree with Bob, but I give him an A for effort for trying to get out of the minefield that is called Co$.

            • Midwest Mom

              I think It’s imperative for us to point out any and all fallacies pertaining to L. Ron Hubbard and the Co$, including the various front groups, books, social media propaganda, etc.to educate those who believe it, those who don’t know enough to question it, and those who have never heard of Hubbard period.

              One thing that I have found to be true in numerous circumstances is that people who are working diligently to extirpate corruption and abuse from the inside of a beast use extreme prudence and discretion as to not draw attention to themselves or to others who might be affected by their actions. They most certainly would not post about it, even anonymously, on a well known blog site, especially when that site is a major thorn in the beast’s side and is monitored by the beast’s fleas around the clock.

              Someone wants attention and that someone doth protest too much.

            • Missionary Kid

              Understood.

              LRH & DM & their minions are sneaky bastards, but the more light that’s shown on them, the more their evil becomes apparent to the rest of the world.

              I don’t see Bob as one who’s trying to change things, but just get out.

            • Midwest Mom

              He’s actually stated in past posts that he is doing the former (of your last statement) and then used the appeal to emotion tactic. A lot of posts use red herrings and post hocs and one of the posts above to me wasn’t as successful as intended when he chose to use the the dismissive appeal to authority with appeal to emotion (for the benefit of others to read, not me). I don’t take very kindly to someone daring me to do something as a set up. (If I choose to discuss something with Mr. O, or anyone else, I will do so. I don’t need someone to dare me to speak with anyone!) He also loves it when people step in to offer explanations for his comments. Why defend yourself when others will willingly do it for you, especially when you didn’t mean it the way they are interpreting it and they make you look better?

              These posts are textbook examples of argumentative fallacies, as I’m sure you already know, with a specific intention to deceive and it’s certainly not done by accident, nor in innocence. We’ve tangoed with this dancer before in the past, even when Mr. O was at the Village Voice. If he stops posting, he’ll return, but he’ll use a different sock.

              He thinks he’s handling us. He’s wrong. He knows that he can’t fool all, but takes advantage of the kindness of good people to insert propaganda. Did you notice the comment to you, stating that a certain subject has already been covered already? That’s a favorite response and used a lot in the context of: “That’s old news, and your point has already been disproved many times before in the past.”, even though it has never been disproved at all. He also attempted to change the definition of the word ‘destroy’ to mean specifically as ‘a hand grenade approach’. Destruction is not limited to a single act or instance. He’s trying to dismiss me with Obfuscationpallooza!

              I liked how you used the word “Scientist” in the quotations and reinforced that Hubbs wasn’t one. Bingo! Derek is quite adept at reinforcing truth versus fallacy, if you’ve noticed. (I’m so proud!)

              It’s a shame that so much effort is spent and wasted to “handle” blog sites, journalists, and the media as a whole by the deceptive group known as the CoS, when no efforts are made by them to actually do good works in order to help others the way so many faith groups or community groups and organizations do, each and every day.

              It’s still vital to make every effort to chip away at the egg shell to get through to the yolk, with the hope of exposing it to the sunlight. I’m glad that you are up to the challenge! Thanks for the back up! 😉

            • DeElizabethan

              Spot on MM 🙂

            • Midwest Mom

              🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              O.K., thanks for putting that context. I’m now more aware of what’s going on. If he’s really blowing, I’d say 6 months would be the limit of time that I’d trust anyone that says that they’re working on it. Since he’s been on this track that long, I’d say there’s some smoke that’s been blown, and I inhaled it.

              I thought that some of your answers were a bit harsh when I read them, but now I understand why.

              I appreciate your comments. Shit, I’d forgotten all those means to win an argument. I last participated in debate 50 years ago. Basically, all I really remember is not to let the other person define terms and the argument itself.

            • Midwest Mom

              Hey, a former debater! I was a debater, too. 🙂 You’ve remembered the important parts. Not too shabby after five decades! The socks like to redefine terms and count on people not catching on to it. They study propaganda tactics and use the argumentative fallacies to twist thing to their advantage. (Like equating a product [of hammers] to people who have been physically and mentally abused and without anywhere to go). it lessens the abuse to equate it to something that isn’t a living, breathing human being.

              This sock has moments where he seems very jovial and and charming, but be warned; he doesn’t like to be challenged and makes sure to have the last word. He also attacks, but plays the victim everytime he’s confronted about it. It’s like talking to a teenage girl during a mood swing.

              Sometimes tough love is necessary to make sure that the CoS fallacies aren’t accepted as the truth. Remember, their goal is to push their ethics into you and on this site to plant their hogwash and soften the Hubb’s legacy.

              Don’t feel bad about not noticing the blowing smoke. It shows that you see the best in people, and that’s a tremendous quality to have. This guy has posted some ungracious things about some very lovely people. He also uses ‘the sarcasm defense”, even when sarcasm is inappropriate for the circumstance.

              Thanks again for contributing here. It can be challenging, to be sure, but there are also some swell people to make you smile or even chuckle out loud, and you’ve made me laugh out loud, as well. 🙂

              Have a great weekend!

            • Missionary Kid

              People have gotten annoyed with me on other lists (I’ve never been banned) because I challenge assumptions. When I’m wrong, I admit it, but I’m usually pretty careful how I state something.

              On this list, I’ll be more careful.

              I don’t get into ad hominem attacks, unless it’s about LRH or DM, so I usually don’t get into flame wars. If someone tries to restate something I wrote in a different way than I wrote it, I bust them. I’m willing to get into a discussion and sometimes agree to disagree, but the most difficult people to deal with are those who have their own, weird or offbeat definitions. Co$ is filled with them, because the cosmology is so warped.

              One of the reasons that they are so against “psychs” is that the psychologists and psychiatrists have the commonly accepted definitions for psychological terms, as well as a lot of research to back them up. Of course, it is a “soft science,” and mistakes have been made, but huge strides in pharmacology, understanding of biology, and the human mind and body have been made since the 1930s and 1940s, where all of the $cientology “tech” is stuck.

              My theory is that Freud just took the old spirits and gods that supposedly influenced and possessed people and put them in a different framework. Instead of having spirits and demons possess us, he used terms like ego and id and superego.

              The difference between Freud, (and this includes all the succeeding shrinks) and LRH is that they understood that those terms were simply used for a means of communicating and describing human behavior. LRH made his terms set in stone, as gospel for a religion. DM has continued the worship of this false and destructive idol.

              I’ll try to keep it light, but give ’em hell.

            • DeElizabethan

              Hey MK, give em hell. Am with you!

            • Midwest Mom

              I have to admit, that there are many days that I am in full crying mode when I read the content of Tony’s articles and the commentary here. There is so much misery and there are so many people suffering. It is also absolutely unnecessary for any of this evil to happen in the first place, and most importantly, to continue. .

              I don’t know how Tony is able to do what he does, and so well. He is remarkable in that sense and I am impressed that he is able to keep his sense of humor well fueled and always at the ready!

              I am so proud of Derek Bloch. He has gone through a great deal in his life and he is such a fine young man. I can’t tell you how much he has taught me about appreciating the people in my life and not waiting or hesitating to let people know how much I appreciate them. You never know when you won’t have that opportunity again.

              Thank you for being respectful of my religious beliefs. I appreciate it a great deal and I am so grateful to everyone here who has been so kind and courteous toward me. Small kindnesses can fill the heart with enormous warmth!

              Give’em heck, M.K.!

            • Missionary Kid

              I too am saddened by the damage caused by the machinations and logorrhea from LRH, and the sneaky diminutive midget. I also feel sad when I hear many of the stories, but I’m also glad to hear of people waking up and leaving the cult, and that the decline appears to be accelerating.

              There is always a cost to joining, because of the isolation from the rest of the world, but the cost of leaving, after years of conditioning and dependency on Co$ as well as the loss of assets, can be extremely disruptive and disheartening to a person. The ex-$cientologist is broke, friendless outside of Co$, and filled with misinformation, paranoia, and counter-intuitive conditioning that doesn’t help them to form normal relationships. The good news is that they can outgrow all of that. The bad news is that the scars can last a long time.

              I think that Tony keeps his sense of humor because he lives in the real world, and that there’s so much of an absurdist tinge to everything Co$ does, evil as it is. There is also a small but stalwart community here that supports him. (Small in relation to the rest of the world.) The rewards to Tony and the rest of us are in seeing people grow out of their Co$ experience, and their subsequent blossoming.

              While I consider the Indies to be foolish, I understand their reluctance to leave a whole cosmology they’ve come to live by for many years. I don’t know if their ultimate hope is that when Co$ ultimately collapses that they can take over, or that they are simply unwilling to take the bold step to say that the self-created god, LRH was full of shit.
              Derek’s story is one of the tragedies that come out of an inflexible, unrealistic, movement that explains everything in terms of a cosmology and morality set down by a rigid patriarch. Deviation from that standard is not tolerated, and is considered hostile, even though it is
              completely natural in the rest of the world. Derek has had the very essence of his being attacked and rejected by his family, yet he has survived and has little of the bitterness he is entitled to, IMO.

              I don’t think Derek’s got a mean bone in his body in spite of all of what’s been done to him. He brings out the protectiveness in me.

              I’m not that tolerant of others’ religions. My attitude is that if someone’s ritual is to dance naked in the middle of the street with bat guano on their head, that’s their business. On the other hand, if someone tries to intrude on my life, or force themselves on others, or act with a sense of entitlement, or abuse people, it raises my hackles. Every belief has its own inconsistencies or counter-arguments, as well as history of thought, and if I don’t know them, I usually know where to find them.

              While I’m somewhat hostile to fundamentalist Christianity, I also understand where someone is coming from, because that’s where I came from. I also have sympathy, but I know much more about (or know where to find) cogent reasons for their beliefs. I also know that one can’t
              prove or disprove belief.

            • grundoon

              You make it clear that Bob does not have your permission to post here unless he adjusts the content of his speech to fit within your parameters. However, your permission would matter more if this were your site. In the past, Tony has expressed the wish that more Scientologists and indies would participate here. I note that Bob engages in discussion, stays on topic, refrains from attacking other posters, and generally behaves like a community member rather than a disruptive troll. Unfortunately for him, he persists in having his opinions instead of yours. Disagreeing with other contributors is one thing; trying to drive them off the site is another.

            • Midwest Mom

              Hi, grundoon! I’m not trying to drive anyone away. I am trying to help clarify what is the truth versus what is propaganda. There are people who still believe in Hubbard’s dangerous teachings about medical conditions, mental health, disabilities, etc. and when they subject their children and their elderly relatives to those harmful practices, it’s necessary to let them know that touch assists, five hour saunas, auditing and e-meter machines aren’t a substitute for medically trained professional evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment. When someone promotes that misinformation and other Co$ lies here, like the gentleman you referenced, I think that it is our duty to point out and clarify that the things that they promote as fact are actually not factually based and to educate them about it, and to encourage them to seek non-Scientology based sites, books, and periodicals to learn more from a variety of sources.

              It’s imperative to debunk Hubbards propaganda. It not only effects Scientologists, but it’s quite distressing to know that there is so much effort by the Co$ to plant lies on sites regarding healthy living, medical advice, mental health,, prescriptive medications, vitamin supplementation, drug and alcohol treatment, literacy, and more.

              It’s extremely upsetting to me that the Co$ uses this propaganda to plant lies which actually does cause harm to people. How many people have believed Co$ propaganda and their lies planted to dissuade people from seeking professional help, treatment, and use of prescription medication for mental or neurological disorders? There’s no way of knowing, however these people are suffering tremendously, some to the point of suicide or harming others, not to mention the toll it has on those close to them. The man you referenced sees this as a victory for the CCHR and refers to statistics as proof that they are “helping people”. It’s up to us to show that it isn’t helping, but hurting people and causing unnecessary suffering.

              He also claims that depression isn’t a real condition. Again, this is false information and needs to be addressed each and every time he posts it. It’s not done to be mean, it’s educating him about the propaganda that he has been fed and is repeating as fact.

              When propaganda squeaks by here, it’s especially troublesome, since it reinforces lies, and for lurkers or independents, not to have the truth pointed out to them is not only a shame, but doesn’t help them see the reality of Hubbard’s false teachings, since many are still reluctant to research things on the internet or public library.

              I don’t want on my conscience anyone foregoing treatment for medical or mental problems because they read on here or anywhere that vitamins can cure things better than medicine and that “there’s no proof that depression exists” or that “pharmaceutical companies are pushing anti-psych drugs for infants”, which are lies this gentleman believes and has posted as fact here.

              He has indeed insulted people here. He even called one woman a four letter word that rhymes with runt. That is vulgar, insulting and unkind.

              I don’t wish to push anyone away from this site, especially those who need the information and support provided here to make progress in their lives. I will step in to dispel propaganda when it is being used here or anywhere else, though.

              Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I miss seeing you around here and hope you can pop in more often!

              Love, Susan

            • grundoon

              Hi MM, Thanks for your thoughtful response.

              Dispelling propaganda and standing up for truth are in large part what the Underground Bunker is all about. What I find troublesome is when we aim our artillery against a human target to punish the person for daring to express, in apparent honesty, a viewpoint with which we disagree. Demolish the falsehoods and proclaim the truth, but there’s really no need to delve into the unwelcomed speaker’s personal traits, whether a liar, dupe, dufus, patsy, shill, troll, lost lamb or whatever.

              Before unleashing personal verbal retribution on a suspected troll, it is well to consider two things.

              First, it is not uncommon for wavering Scientologists, fresh out of the cult or on the borderline, to engage with the SPs at a critical site like this, and try to set us straight. Because their communication skills and perceptions are impaired by years of Hubbard’s patent mind reform, they try to handle us with Hubtech such as TR3, 8c, tone scale, etc., making them resemble trolls of the OSA or A-E variety. However, because they are already outward bound from Scientology, often they can be reached and engaged in dialogue by treating them courteously and with respect for their (long-suppressed) individuality. Although they debut as obnoxious trolls, and may wobble in and out of the Scn persona as they gradually extract themselves from the mindfuck, in the end many turn out to be fine human beings and courageous warriors for freedom… and if not, at least they get free of the cult. An outstanding example is Tory “Magoo” Christman.

              Second, it does little good to chastise one miscreant for the crimes of another. It seems you have mixed up as many as 4 different commenters, lumping them as one person. (1) Bob the First, a Scientologist in good standing (as far as they know), lately turned against the Chruch. (2) Bob the Second, who dropped in for the first time in the “We Need Your Help” article, and claims no connection with the Chruch. (3) Bob 74, a non-Scn troll who has been amusing us under a variety of pseudonyms (Marcabian Commander, Peace Theta, etc) since before I joined the site. For lulz, enjoys posing as a Scn troll to draw our fire. (4) Flunk 101, a 70s-vintage ex-Scn who first manifested as a pro-Scn troll under the name StillKeyedOut; then later under names such as Ziontologist, launched attacks and invective against several members of the community, and made some small steps toward equitable dialogue; and most recently as Flunk 101 has been participating nicely as a community member. (I’ve linked to a representative comment from each of the Bobs. If you go to these comments and click on the avatar to the left of the poster’s name, Disqus shows that account’s last few comments, so you can compare and contrast the Bobs.) I don’t recall seeing the comments you referenced about CCHR, depression and psych drugs for infants. But I suspect some of the pro-Scn comments you saw were parody by #3, and the vulgar insults were by #4 (perhaps posting under the influence – seemingly had a weird personality shift for a few days there). Bob #1 strikes me as a straight shooter, although there are some things in Scn and Hubbard that he sees in a positive light and says so, which of course may call for rebuttal according to the principles you have outlined.

              I’m glad you are here with us, MM. We very much felt your Lenticular absence.

            • John P.

              How often does polite and respectful (and well researched) discussion like this happen on the Internet? This could be a first, but I’m not surprised it happened in this particular forum….

            • DeElizabethan

              Nice post, thanks grundoon.

            • Midwest Mom

              Thanks for your reply! You are quite amazing, I hope you know! You are a wise man, grundoon. 😉

              I think that the important thing for all of us to keep in mind is that no one truly knows the intentions of someone else’s statements, opinions or motivations except for that individual person. We can all assume that we know, but it is prudent not to speak for others, especially when we don’t actually know them. Fair enough?

              I didn’t mistake the gentleman you referenced with those other similar named posters, though. The accounts for the dopplegangers are new and didn’t even exist then for the posts that I was speaking about and were from his account. If I am wrong about any of my comments, then I offer my sincere apologies. You are right. It is propaganda we are fighting; not the individual.

              Here’s one example, with reference to his comments regarding babies being given antidepressants by psychiatrists, as well as a comment stating that depression is not really a proven disease. The comments were in response to an article by Tony about babies being audited at the Mace-Kingsley ranch. I didn’t read it at the time it was written, since it was during Lent, but I left a comment a few minutes ago on the thread.

              http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/03/sunday-funnies-get-your-infant-audited/

              I hope it is sufficient enough without me having to re-read every post on every article at this site to pull up examples. It’s 1:10 a.m. here, and I have fallen asleep about 3 or 4 times while trying to type this message!

              You are a good man, grundoon. You have genuine compassion and empathy for others that serves as an example for all of us to strive to emulate. Thank you for your kind words!

            • grundoon

              Thanks for the link. Bob #1’s flip comment touched off a really good discussion, in which uninformed – and CCHR-disinformed – opinions were met with current realities contributed by Bunkerites having actual knowledge and/or direct experience of the issues. It was valuable, I think, to get both sides on the record. To an onlooker, the reality-based comments stand out and plainly win the day, and the weakness of the CCHR-disinformed viewpoint is evident.

              As the thread wrapped up, Chocolate Velvet said to Bob #1, “Disagreement, sometimes forceful and contentious, sometimes cordial, is a powerful antidote to shared delusion. So, keep putting your POV in the mix, please. You are always respectful, and open to others, and that can’t be easy when you voice an unpopular perspective…. Much better for us to maintain a vital discussion, with all the disparate views at the table. Ultimately, it makes our collective voice more credible. That’s the kind of stuff that matters to me here.”

              As you rightly say, “no one truly knows the intentions of someone else’s statements, opinions or motivations except for that individual.” Nevertheless we humans constantly strive to discern one another’s intentions and motivations. Trying to get better at it, we discuss our perceptions / guesses / insights with each other and with friends and advisors. The success or failure of the decisions we make for ourselves often hinges upon how accurately we have made such judgments. Lacking perfect knowledge, at some point we have to assume our judgments and fallback plans are adequate, make the decision and go forward.

              In trying to discern another’s intentions and motivations, reasonable people may differ. Vive la différence!

            • Missionary Kid

              Bob, obviously you’ve pissed people off by using hammers as an example of testing. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were talking about testing in general.

              I’ll put it this way: LRH treated people as if they were hammers (objects). The damage that he did by making his theories gospel, and claiming that they were tested facts is incalculable.

              It goes on with Miscabbage.

              The goal of the Co$ is not really to help people or save the world, but to create an empire where COB is absolute ruler and where all benefits flow to him. DM just continued the scam.

              The whole Christian Scientist movement , nor is the science of mind anywhere near scientific.

              LRH just spouted theories that would keep people in thrall to him. He kept creating levels because the whole idea was to, as it’s put, keep them wanting more. Setting up further levels took care of any person’s individual dissatisfaction, because they could always tell themselves that doubts or the inability to gain promised power was the result of not achieving a high enough level.

              Remember that in Co$, it’s always your fault.

              I’d like to see how COB would handle a serious motorcycle accident where they have to amputate a leg. He can’t blame anyone else but himself. It would be his fault that he had an accident.

            • Bob

              Your analogy is apt. As I said to Midwest Mom. Only a criminal company would pull that kind of financial stunt. And there are actual cases of companies doing that to our government, until they were caught. Yes in Scientology people are treated like tools. How about the biggest, most famous and expensive tool in history. Mr. Tom Cruise.
              I have a history of not clearly writing what I mean but in this case I stand by my analogy. I comment on this blog because I have experience with this church. And my journey to deprogram myself was at times was very painful. In this case I was in agreement with what was being said.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Hand on hips…tapping my foot…left eyebrow cocked….giving you the thousand yard stare!!!

          • noseinabk

            Confused. Last night I thought I read negative posts from Bob, not Bob 74. Now I can not find those post but do see two separate Bobs. So did he create a new account to cover????? Sorry if being dense but even though original Bob was accused trolling I thought he was just a still in.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Confused…um yeah, ditto here!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’d bet the ice cream sandwich I am eating right now for lunch that the ‘Bob’ account is just one of a dozen sock puppet accounts.. They’re losing track of their back stories.. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.. I like puppets..

        • Captain Howdy

          So Bob, you’re not Bob74 are you?

          • Bob

            Nope. You know me as plain “bob”.

            • Captain Howdy

              YAY! All these other mofo’s doubted you… but alas, I did not.

            • Bob

              Thanks, CH. I have been working a lot so I had to keep my nose to the grindstone instead of the computer screen.

            • Davka

              So then what was up with the mondo bizarro messages a few days ago saying you weren’t a Scientologist?

            • Bob

              In my absence it seems a new Bob has arrived. Since my last post was 5 days ago that could happen. I probably should have given a less general handle so this would not occur. I assure I am the Bob who sometimes goes against the grain of public opinion but has a high regard for commenters on Tonys blog. Unless it is an OSAbot. That seems unlikely but stranger things have happened.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yep.. I just checked.. There are two Bobs.. One has 537 comments and one has 4 or 5..

              My apologies, Original Bob..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yipee!!!!!!!

            • Davka

              I feel so much better!!

            • noseinabk

              Thank you SPF. This is what had me so confused. I did see the original evil Bob post and your comment that only one Bob could post. At the time I thought we had been suckered. I liked Bob from the get go, so was disappointed to think he was a troll. However when I did go back and look for posts I could not find the negative post from Bob. Is it not possible that “Bob” could have swiftly created the Bob 74 or other Bob account in order to cover his tracks?
              Original Bob, if you are reading this please understand that I am just trying to understand if this is doable.

            • Captain Howdy

              There are a number of different ways people can use to sign in here, so theoreticaly people could have the same exact name.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Troll or no, all the Bobs have some reason for being here.. I figure if we encourage them all to stay and comment, they may also read, learn and think twice about co$..

            • FistOfXenu

              noseinabk, I think a lot of us are in the dark here but here’s what I can see. Bob74 is just some kind of troll or something. The 2 Bob accounts you can see for yourself because I posted the Disqus summaries of them both somewhere on this page. I have no idea where because Disqus likes rearranging them but they were about 12 hours ago from now.

              Our Bob has posted over 500 comments but wasn’t here for a few days including when troll Bob was. Troll Bob made 5 posts about “We need your help” a couple of days ago.

              Hope that’s a little clearer. Like I said already this doesn’t prove our Bob is innocent but it makes it a lot more likely. I think what happened is we have a troll here or an a to e or an OSAbot or somebody. I think they noticed that a couple of people here were confused about our Bob so they decided to try and stir up trouble and get us arguing with each other. And somehow they figured out a way to make another account that just says “Bob” so we’d all think our Bob’s a troll.

              But I just saw SPF’s comment that “all the Bobs have some reason for being here. I figure if we encourage them all to stay and comment, they may also read, learn and think twice about co$” I think SPF is right. Unlike $cientarCONon we have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And unlike $cientarCONon we don’t have to inforce a uniform party line. Hell, we even welcome people that hate the Demented Midget and still drink the Liar Ron Humptydumpty clam aid. That’s freedom and freedom is a beautiful thing. 🙂

            • grundoon

              Anyone can be a Bob. Registration is not required (thanks, Tony!!), so people can type whatever they want into the Name box when they post. But the Bob 74 persona, afaict, was created by a non-Bob who has been dropping in amusingly for an occasional spot of trolling since early VV days.

            • Captain Howdy

              So people don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between “Bob” and “Bob74”..DERP!

            • Bob

              CH, sugaerplumfairy just checked and there are two bobs. Not sure how that can happen. I saw the posts. He seemed to innocent to me. And he caused some confusion.

          • sugarplumfairy

            plain Bob was busted Monday night, cap’n.. Go back and read the comments to ‘We Need Your Help, Scientology Watchers..

            Bob (apparently not our Bob) says in his comment that night that he’s never met a scientologist.. Since he’s told us many times that he IS a scientologist, I figured his Bob account was being used by someone else that night..

            I’m still glad to see him.. It doesn’t matter who he is, I hope he keeps posting.. It’d be pretty boring around here without some difference of opinion..

            • Captain Howdy

              How could “Bob74” use Bob’s account? They’re separate accounts with presumably different passwords.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’m not talking about Bob74.. There are two just plain ‘Bob’ accounts.. Disqus goofed..

              And there can ever only be one Sugarplumfairy.. SPF2 can eat my shorts..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, BTN2 can eat my…..

              Oh wait……

            • FistOfXenu

              Yeah, what’s up with that?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Lol…I can’t get into my old account.
              So I had to clone myself. No problem.

            • FistOfXenu

              Clone yourself? You got those OTIX+ super powerz? Awe struck!

              Now could you fix Disqus? Make it go right?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol..

      • Poison Ivy

        Mr. Poison Ivy has some pretty crazy stories about a certifiably psychotic action star he worked with back in the 90’s…who claimed to be hypersensitive to smells (among other things). He’d walk on a set followed by an entourage, sniff the air, then walk right out again. Then the entire crew would have to air out the stage, do detective work, etc. etc. to find the “mystery” smell that this crazy SOB claimed prevented him from working. I’m thinking of some other stories about this guy Mr. Poison Ivy has told, and like Hubbard, he was a paranoid pathological liar as well.
        And MK, it was indeed ALL about the control.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Jack Nicholson? 🙂

        • Missionary Kid

          What that action star was doing was, in essence, marking the set, like an animal marks its territory and asserting his dominance.
          It’s all bullshit. I’m sorry that Mr. Poison Ivy had to go through with that.
          I’ve heard of actors raising a ruckus like that because they didn’t want to start work on a film on a particular day. I’m wondering how professional the guy was otherwise.

    • N. Graham

      Hard to believe, but it was actually 12 to 13 times they had to rinse the shirts.

  • VickiStubing

    Hysterical! I clicked on the link to watch Storm Zara’s initial video and the ad at the beginning was for that hysterical movie “Oblivion!” I’m hysterical! Don’t see! Don’t hear!

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I would not recommend reading about “Dianetics” to anyone with a level 7 hangover!!!
    It just makes the head pound harder!

    Ouch.

    • Captain Howdy

      Hangovers are merely engrams caused by people of your ilk falling down, being knocked unconscious and the people in their immediate vicinity yelling a lot…at them..”you make me sick”..”why did I ever marry you you disgusting POS!”. it’s all very scientific.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Laughing hurts…

        • FistOfXenu

          BTN, still hung over? I’m having a 2nd breakfast already, sober as a judge. (Cmon, there must be sober judge someplace in the world) You’ll never keep up like that. 😀

          • BuryTheNuts2

            BTN is a wine and beer drinker for a reason!
            Mr.Nuts was force feeding (haha, right) her rum shots!
            He had ulterior motives!!!!

            And yes, I am still hung over as I should be after making an ass of myself.
            I think I shaved 20 or so points off my IQ last night.

            • FistOfXenu

              Ah, ulterior motives! They’re such fun.

            • Captain Howdy

              Take a benzo or some painkillers if you have any laying around. That will straighten you out.

            • FistOfXenu

              BTN you should ask Mr Nuts to help you out with your hang over. You know, with some touch assists. 1 way or the other that should make you feel loads better. 😉

            • BuryTheNuts2

              What the hell! The damn touch assists are what got me into this damn mess in the first place!

            • FistOfXenu

              What caused the problem will bring you the cure. It’s like a hair of the dog that bit you but nicer than another dog bite. 😉

    • Bella Legosi

      Now get your vibrating cans out and work them egrams til your mind is blown 50ft from itself! 🙂

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Are you kidding? I am just managing to stuff my consciousness back inside my skull where it belongs TYVM!!!

        • Bella Legosi

          Just don’t let them get the patent! Contact Tony’s lawyer!

  • Bella Legosi

    Every soldier who ever gets love bombed or recruited in this cult should really think on this, “A person who is alarmed by noises, by sounds in general, by certain
    voices, who gets a headache or gets angry when the people around are
    “noisy” or the door slams or the dishes rattle, is a victim of extended
    hearing.” I shudder to think these $cilons are out there trying to influence the troops going to or coming from war!

    • FistOfXenu

      Imagine trying to run that scam on soldiers with PTSD? Imagine Vampire Minstrels visiting people in hospitals or rehab and dumping that on soldiers or victims of something like the Marathon bombing or the Texas fire?

      • Ze Moo

        Lroon may have seen hysterical blindness and other mental problems when he was in the navy hospital around 44-45. There were lots of mental cases in the pacific fighting. How he turned ptsd into engram problems is beyond me.

        • FistOfXenu

          Maybe he HAD hysterical blindness. Like every time he went to the VA to ask for money, if he hypnotized himself 1st and did those affirmations. Maybe hysterical blindness is what gave him the idea for that.

          And yeah there were lots of mental cases after WWII like most wars. He’s just one of the mental cases that figured out how to print money with his madness.

      • Bella Legosi

        I can definately see them in foce at the Boston scene and now the Texas disaster! Freaking registered as a 2.1 f**KING quake! I would be very interested in hearing any soldiers story tho. If they were Scilon before joining or during service, or if they have ever been approached when they have come home.

  • Bella Legosi

    Thank you Vance for knowing the word hysterical is misogynistic! It doesn’t surprise me that he used it tho…..he was a man of his time ya know.

    • Observer

      He’d have been misogynistic no matter when he was born. He was, if I may quote Ash in Army of Darkness, a primitive screwhead.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I wonder why Hubbard hated and feared women so much? I haven’t really read anything about his background as a youngster that would spur that kind of attitude. I mean he was obviously a spoiled little boy, but his mother and aunts seemed relatively normal.
        And the abortion fixation is totally creepy.

        • FistOfXenu

          What if his old man hated women and was nasty on his mom? If he grew up seeing his father telling his mother she was a worthless leech or a ball buster and all that? And what if his old man roughed her up having sex or they were just noisy and rough and not very private? Even if the old man didn’t knock her around or not much, maybe that would be enough for Hubbard to get the idea that women are evil and need to be treated harsh. The rough sex could give him strange ideas about pregnancy.

          Also this, what if Hubbard’s parents argued because his father thought his mother was turning him into a mommy’s boy? Most military fathers are pretty concerned for their sons not to be “sissies”. At least they were back then. Maybe he grew up thinking it was his mother’s fault for ruining him and then spent the rest of his life lying to create the life he thought he should’ve had.

          • i-Betty

            Some really good points here, FoX 🙂

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks i-Betty. I had a lot of time when i was young to see how being career military changes a man and even affects his home life. And there’s a lot we don’t know about the Hubbard family.

            • noseinabk

              I agree that some childhood event may have stuck with him and worked its way through a very troubled mind. A lot we don’t know but his affirmations are very telling.

              “Many women are not capable of pleasure in sex and anything adverse they say or do has no effect whatever upon your pleasure.”

              “Testosterone blends easily with your own hormones . . . You have no fear of what any woman may think of your bed conduct.”

              This sounds like denial of his true nature. Much easier to degrade women and deny his own issues.

            • FistOfXenu

              “Testosterone blends easily with your own hormones” This always confused me. It reads like either he was dumb as a bag of hammers and didn’t know testosterone is 1 of the hormones men have or else he had some kind of gender problem and was taking testosterone to make himself more manly? That fits with degrading women too – people won’t think you’re a woman if you act like a man that hates them.

            • Observer

              I vote “dumb as a bag of hammers”.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I believe the testosterone was another of his self medicating self diagnosing solutions to one of his “low-hanging” problems, only this one, not metaphorical.

            • grundoon

              L. Ron Hubbard’s “admissions” indicate that he was not sufficiently aroused by women to sustain an erection. He feared orgasm, and feared that women would disrespect him for his discreditable bedroom performances. Seeking to escape these deficiencies and prove his heterosexuality, he begged the VA for psychiatric help, he attempted self-hypnosis, consumed mass quantities of steroids and whatever else he could get, composed affirmations, etc.

          • I’ve mentioned it before — I think that Hubbard believed that his mother tried to abort her pregnancy with him (reflected in his obsession with attempted abortions), and now I wonder if it was his father who gave him that idea — as a way to undermine his relationship with her. Hub was a sociopath, for sure, and skillful manipulation probably came naturally, but he may have learned some of the techniques at his father’s knee. Yes, Hubbard’s father dead-agented his mother. Yikes!

            • FistOfXenu

              This is my theory too although I can’t prove it. But I think too many things point to it being true.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hubbard’s list of Who To Fear and Loathe grew each time someone figured out his con and/or figured out his lunacy. Who knew his methods of madness better than his wives and mother? I think I’ve said before that he blamed his mother as Source of his physical and mental disabilities. Remember he was an extreme preemie and sickly child long before neonatal care wings.

      • Bella Legosi

        Too bad Hub wasn’t on the business end of the Boomstick! Wonder how those OT powers would stop hunting rounds!

    • FistOfXenu

      “he was a man of his time” What, neolithic? 😛

      • Bella Legosi

        Yup, sorry I may have offended all you male dinosaurs! =) But, the view and treatment of women back when Dianetics was birthed out of his Kolon, was a rotten time to be a woman! The court system was against you child wise, abortion was a bathroom activity, not many could divorce if they wanted to, “house dresses”, they didn’t work, went to segregated colleges, ect! True there were some exceptions, but if you were a woman of the 50’s you were there to look pretty, not form opinions outside your husband’s, breed the kids, and wait on both husband and kids hand and foot. Maybe Hubs choice of woman is what got his hate on for us all. Maybe he got a Anne Boylen instead of a Jane Seymore! Like I said, not every household was like how I described, but it definitely was the standard! And “standard” can be a scary word depending on what is being made into it!

        • FistOfXenu

          No offense. I remember my girlfriend announcing she wanted to learn to drive. Her mom said “But why dear, that’s your husband’s job!” Her dad said “Drive?” and laughed. It was bad back then.

          • Bella Legosi

            I wasn’t around until the Regan years, but thank you for adding to my point! 😀 That is why I say he was a man of his time or time of upbringing and adulthood.

            • FistOfXenu

              Ha! Reagan, so you missed all the nastiness of the 40s and 50s. I’m glad you did. I guess big cities were better but if you left cities behind you were in Backwardslandia.

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I remember in 94 my mom let me actually cast a vote at the elementary school that would have allowed gay marriage. I voted in the name of LOVE and voted that ALL should get the benefits of marriage, unfortunately it didn’t pass 🙁

        • grundoon

          L. Ron Hubbard sought out non-traditional households such as those of Jack Parsons and Robert A. Heinlein, met and fucked numerous non-traditional women there, and married one (Sara). Traditional roles for many women in the US were disrupted by the war, and the late 1940s were less straitlaced than one might imagine, before the culture settled down to suburbia and the white-bread 50s.

          • Bella Legosi

            I think that without the 20’s and 40’s (wartime) the real Woman’s Lib prolly would have never happened. I agree with your statement. There were some good times for women, but I think what over shadows them is the 50’s standard. I like to think of L Ron and Sara as being the modern equivalent to Henry VIII and Anne Boylen. She was non-traditional too, and in the end they both got the rotten end of the stick. And they married two complete assholes! lol

            • grundoon

              Henry VIII or L. Ron Hubbard?

              Redhead
              Paranoid sociopath
              Bigamist
              Started own church
              Founded a navy but failed at conquest
              Shut down monasteries/missions and confiscated their property
              Author and composer
              Wife imprisoned
              Fat and repulsive
              “an egotistical borderline neurotic given to great fits of temper and deep and dangerous suspicions”

            • Bella Legosi

              Yup. I think you made my point wonderfully! I always thought of them being a like, but never in those details!

            • grundoon

              I would never have thought of the parallels if you hadn’t made the suggestion. Good insight!

            • Bella Legosi

              Why thank you!

            • Bella Legosi

              I think it was safe to say that this ginger doesn’t have a soul too!

    • Of course Vance knows all about misogyny. His book contains some of the most misogynistic insults toward women ever committed to paper. He also demonstrates throughout the book all the sexual maturity of the adolescent he was when he was ensnared by Scientology. Maybe arrested development is another “gift” bestowed on lucky followers of the cult.

      • Missionary Kid

        An all-embracing cult stunts one’s emotional growth or regresses it to a childish viewpoint. In transactional analytic terms, it becomes a parent-child relationship.

        • Apparently so! Though not one’s intellectual growth, apparently (based on Vance’s super grades and ability to hold down a job as a lawyer). Interesting.

          • Missionary Kid

            Once one leaves the cult, then it’s possible for an individual to start emotional growth again.

      • Are you here to dead-agent Vance? I don’t recall seeing you around before, and opening with vague insinuations is not a good introduction.

        • Captain Howdy

          Actually, I checked his previous comments and they sound like your typical sci-watcher. Maybe he O.D.’d on the Alan Alda.

        • I’m not dead-agenting anyone. I actually read Vance’s book. (Did you?) That makes my comments less of a vague insinuation than a critique of what I read. I struggled through to the end mainly to see if Vance made any progress in his often hateful-sounding inner dialogue, and to find out what great insight finally persuaded him to quit the cult. I was disappointed in both respects.

          And guess what? Being an ex-Scientologist doesn’t make someone untouchable or beyond criticism. That said, I have a ton of respect for the Headleys, Jenna Hill, Amy Scobee (all of whose books I’ve also read), along with the great work done by Lawrence Wright, Johns Atack and Sweeney, again, all of whom I’ve read.

          As for those who think I have anything to hide or implied I have a connection to Scientology (beyond joining Anonymous sans face mask outside the Mountain View, Calif org during the demos a few years ago), ever heard of Google? I’m using my own name, and my own photo (since I log in here via FB). You can probably find out more about me than I’d actually want you to know. What you won’t find is anything connecting me to the “church”.

      • Captain Howdy

        Are you referring to Vance’s book or Dianetics? if you’re referring to Vance’s book maybe you should offer up some proof.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Vance is definitely not always politically correct…but he is extremely honest and he calls it like he see’s it. I personally was not in the least offended by him and I don’t consider him a misogynist at all. I will agree that one can cherry pick some of the things he says to form that argument, but I think it is negated by his overall attitude towards women…which is obviously quite good.

      • Espiando

        So, Peter, if that’s your real name, how is your A To E going?

        • DodoTheLaser

          BAM! 🙂

          • LOL, yeah, BAM! That showed me! So, DodoTheLaser, if that’s your real name… Oh, wait. Idiot.

            Guess I’m back to lurking if this is how people here to react to anyone having anything less than total adulation for their “heroes”.

            • FistOfXenu

              Irrelevant non-answer Peter. You’re not accomplishing what you were sent here to do if you can’t even make your trolling sound the tiniest bit believable or relevant.
              FAIL

            • Bella Legosi

              Don’t you love the passive aggressive insult that failed? A true believer wouldn’t lurk or go back to lurking unless you really hurt their feelers! My god this is the internet for Christ’s sake. Everyone has an opinion just like they have an asshole! Words don’t hurt that much! Gawsh!

            • FistOfXenu

              They don’t make OSA trolls like they used to. Back in the old days a troll was something you could sink your teeth in, really chew up before you spit it out. Now these new trolls are all puny and watery, 2 or 3 bites and they just dribble away into nothing.

              Seriously I don’t think they get hatted before they’re sent out to be slaughtered. Even Barbara Schwarz (or whatever the spelling was) was more of a match.

            • Bella Legosi

              *whistles London Bridges Falling Down*

        • grundoon

          Why not click on Peter’s avatar photo and take a look at his comment history before you paint him as a troll?

          • Espiando

            Who said I’m calling him a troll? Remember, I’m an Anon. We know trolling better than anyone. Trolls do stuff for the lulz. We Anons appreciate that and do it ourselves. A To E is not done for the lulz. That makes it a High Crime in Anon’s book.

            This, and your other post to me, makes you, in a word, clueless.

            • grundoon

              “Peter Cockerell” says he joined Anon’s raid on the Mountain View org, but without a mask, and he says “Peter Cockerell” is his real name. I guess that makes him a twice-failed Anon.

              What does any of this have to do with A to E?

              And for your information, noob, I know clueless better than anyone.

              Lulz yet?

    • Casabeca

      He was quite obsessed with the womb.

      • Bella Legosi

        Maybe he was jelous his only creation would be in the form of bad science fiction?

  • sugarplumfairy

    “… Hubbard supposes that these victims, when they were unconscious (or in the womb, perhaps) were in the presence of someone who shouted “Don’t see! Don’t hear!” and it has affected them the rest of their lives…”

    Has anybody, anywhere EVER shouted “Don’t see! Don’t hear!” Frking lunacy..

    • Bella Legosi

      yep quak titi quack but does his lunacy surprise you?

    • Captain Howdy

      Yes they have, in Japan.

      “the concept of the
      three monkeys originated from a simple play on words. The saying in
      Japanese is “mizaru, kikazaru, iwazaru”, literally ‘don’t see, don’t hear, don’t speak’ “.

      • sugarplumfairy

        That sounds about right.. After all, he had to steal it from somewhere..

      • RMycroft

        Hubbard did say this about Japanese: “It’s as simple as baby talk, really.” Urusai!

        • i-Betty

          God, he was a patronising, self-promoting git.

          • FistOfXenu

            Not sure what a “git” is but the other 2 sound right. Word clear?

            • It’s British for twerp, tool, nimrod, schmuck.

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks. Funny word. But good for Liar Ron Humptydumpty.

            • Captain Howdy

              Never heard of git? How about ponce? “LRH was a right poncy bastard”

            • noseinabk

              I think I read somewhere that the word jerk was the Americanized version of Git.

            • FistOfXenu

              Really? So the g is pronounced like a j? That still leaves how we got from t to k and stuck an r in it.

            • No, it’s a hard g.

            • FistOfXenu

              So you say it like the 1st part of “guitar”? Like a cowboy saying “gonna git me a gun and shoot the varmint down”? Thanks.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Yes. In South Park.

  • I think Hubbard might have perfected Hyper-Bullshitting. He did it. He’s got people still doing it today!

    • Truthiwant

      I suffered in the past from being hyper-fundraised.

      This is when I, for instance, see some fund raiser or think I see some fund raiser
      and I am very startled, I jump in fright when any fund raiser silently comes into
      a room. I am alarmed by noises of sea org fund raisers, by sounds in general,
      by certain voices and get a headache when they come to my house. I get angry
      when the fundraisers are around and when being “noisy” I slam the door in their
      face.

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001950/

      Because Hubbard liked to keep his followers dumb and focused on what Hubbard wrote, Hubbard wasn’t open to what psychologists went on to discover.

      it is called “conversion disorder.”

      The “miracle” cure, PLEASE, vital info, READ the above two links.

      Chuck Beatty
      ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
      Pittsburgh

  • Observer

    Is it just me, or is Disqus having hysterical fits this morning?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      No, its not you.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I got a message that it was down briefly for servicing.. It seems to be working now..

    • Captain Howdy

      It was down for maintenance

      • FistOfXenu

        That’s a relief. It really messed with me here.

    • i-Betty

      Yes! It’s horrible here. I’m jumping all over the place. Disqus, I curse you with ants.

      • FistOfXenu

        Ants? i-Betty, you sending Disqus down The Hole?

    • Midwest Mom

      I had a difficult time logging in today and the bar to log in didn’t show up until I had refreshed the page several times. (This took over an hour.)

  • sugarplumfairy

    it sounds to me like it was just a job to Zara’s brother.. He doesnt sound like a believer.. yet.. He’s one of the dangerous ones.. If the money were better, he’d still be there, bringing other dupes into the ‘church’.. “I was a
    hotshot there.. Everybody knew who I was..” he hasn’t left co$.. He’s just AWOL.. They’ll be back for him..

    Little sis giggles when she calls him a scientologist.. I was a lot like her.. I considered co$ a joke.. couldn’t believe anyone could take the crap that I’d seen there seriously.. But it’s deadly serious.. The battle for her bro ain’t over.. She doesn’t realize it, but she needs to bring in reinforcements.. NOW..

    • 1subgenius

      Agree. I am concerned that he left because of the pay, and not because its an evil brainwashing cult.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      That was sad to watch.
      He doesn’t appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        No, and unfortunately he doesn’t know what’s ahead. He will probably not be enticed back to the church because of the two videos his sister made. His very young ego will rebel against any negativity directed against him, he will take it very personally. The church is such a nasty piece of work.

        • Midwest Mom

          I sure am scared for this kid. I have a fear that they will be diligent in trying to coerce him back with promises of an important position on a “secret but very important project”.

      • Midwest Mom

        That reminds me of one of my favorite lines from O’Brien on Downton Abbey this past season:
        “Get back in the knife box, Miss Sharp.”

        • Poison Ivy

          Oh, that O’Brien and her razor tongue!

    • Captain Howdy

      If you check out some of Zara’s many other uploads she claims to have become a born again Christian after she beat her addiction to sex and porn, WTF? Interesting family.

      • FLUNK_101

        I liked the video, especially the Deliverance-style setting. It’s the perfect backdrop, as he tries to shrug off how the CO$ is doing something that’s not very nice to him.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          He is worrisome….on the precipice.
          Hopefully he doesn’t go back.

          • Poison Ivy

            It’s like getting sober. You’re ready when you’re ready.
            The problem is that Scientology is worse than drugs or alcohol. Because when you’re ready, they may not let you go.

    • BosonStark

      When I first got into reading stuff about Scientology behavior, I was shocked to learn how low paying it was, including for most of the executives quite high up. I thought people working at the Orgs would be getting a cut of every dupe they signed up, or at least a good salary, or loads of free training. The free-loader debt thing in the Sea Org was really mind blowing.

      I thought with Scientology prices being so high, and their orientation being on success and materialism — worshiping the famous, rich and powerful the way they do — that the workers and Sea Org members would have to be well paid.

      Then I found out they think they have all the all the answers, and are the only ones who can save this sector of the galaxy, with “the tech,” before it’s too late. They’re really just a few chopped off testicles shy of Heaven’s Gate, but bigger and more powerful with dozens of front groups.

      • Missionary Kid

        It used to be that Co$ was more of a multilevel marketing scheme, but first LRH got greedy, then DM got really greedy so that the distribution of profits up the chain of command was pretty much shut down.

      • Poison Ivy

        “They’re really just a few chopped off testicles shy of Heaven’s Gate” – Well said.
        Some days (like today), their delusion and naïvete makes me very, very sad.

      • grundoon

        You can make $$$ as a freelance reg (“FSM”). You get 10% of the take from your “selectees.” But FSM commissions aren’t usually given to staff AFAIK, although Debbie Cook somehow managed to buy a nice new car with commissions she got by regging Flag public while she was CO FSO.

    • Gus_Cox

      Her other vid, when she goes inside the Cinci Org, was most intriguing to me… it’s the first time I’ve seen the Mechanized “Push Button and Cognite” Div VI! I noticed Michael Duff in that first video – I guess they’ll have to edit the hell of that when he and others leave. Of course, the Duffs are hard-core dimwits (I used to know them), so they’ll probably be the last ones out.

      The second video she tapes was really weird – the voiceover had some kind of electronic processing on it, and later in it the guy was reading TWTH – that Vader-esque voice reading the tooth brushing part was really freaky.

      If that’s how they expect to sell anyone Scientology, I guess I see why they aren’t getting any “raw meat” in the door and have to flog the remaining people who got in years ago for all their money. That was seriously bad.

      Gus

      • Midwest Mom

        I agree. That creepy voice and the music on the videos are horrific and promote the Co$’s paranoia and propaganda. This is not a group that promotes compassion, but promotes fear and hate.

      • DeElizabethan

        Right! That phantom voice was really weird and hypnotizing like. Couldn’t believe it. Very dark.

  • Midwest Mom

    You know what? I keep missing my opportunity to indoctrinate people when they are unconscious with commands to do things to create havoc in their lives. Why just two days ago when my son passed out cold, I repeated his name and asked if he could hear me, then said, “Can you open your eye’s for me? It’s mom. I’m right here! You’re in the hallway right outside of your room. You passed out. Can you open your eyes?”

    Honestly, how can anyone in this day and age believe anything that Hubbard said? My blood boils at the thought of how many people have believed his foolish babbling and have suffered from mental and physical problems because they went without proper medical treatment, all because they believed that Hubbard had the answers to everything.

    How many people have suffered and are still suffering because of this man? How many current Scientologists know that Hubbard was a louse and a failure in his relationships with his wives and children? How many current Scientologists know that Hubbard didn’t care about helping others, but only cared about being famous, admired and worshiped by others?

    How many current Scientologists know that he has NEVER been respected by world leaders, academics, the scientific and medical communities, humanitarian groups, religious leaders, educational leaders, or the public at large?

    He was a fraud and it’s snake oil that is sold in his purification rundowns, oiliness tables, and failosophies.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Nice Post MM.

      • Midwest Mom

        Thanks. 🙂 I’ve been following this for a while and am glad that there is more awareness of neurological conditions and the need to help those who have them and those who diagnose and treat them.

      • stillgrace

        Thanks for the link, Bury. Inspiring and interesting! It reminded me of a “night off” during a business trip in Washington D.C. I walked up the steps to the Lincoln Memorial for the first time and was amazed at the huge swell of patriotism and awe I felt and didn’t expect.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I love moments like that!
          I felt that when I stepped into Notre Dame in Paris. Your description is perfect…a huge swell…
          I am not a Christian….but I remember hearing myself say “God lives in here”…out loud.
          It was an incredible moment.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Ooh, Notre Dame! That’s on my bucket list — to go there, stand inside her, and probably just weep at the beautiful architecture and artistry. It must have been amazing.

            I found myself saying the same thing — “god lives here” — one autumn day in Rocky Mountain NP, when I rounded a bend in the trail, and found myself at the top of a wild, roadless valley just shining with golden Aspen trees and streaming sunlight.

            Moments like that are precious, for sure, and even better if you can share them. 🙂

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh that sounds so lovely. I love aspens. I love the sound they make in the breeze. Thanks so much for that image.

              And yeah…it was amazing.

            • Sandy

              I sure missed an opportunity!. I was in Paris several times for work, and one free weekend, I walked to Père Lachaise Cemetery to see Jim Morrison’s grave instead. I mean, that was interesting, I guess, but not like Notre Dame … I was staying just across the river from Notre Dame & never took advantage. Shame me ….

          • I had the same feeling entering St Peter’s Basilica in Rome. There’s a majesty and a sense of history that awed even a heathen like myself.

            Andrew

          • Temple Mount in Jerusalem did that to me, looking at the Western Wall and then climbing up to where the Dome of the Rock is. I am neither Jewish nor Muslim but the intensity of the history hit me like a blast.

            • Davka

              It’s one of the most amazing places I’ve ever been.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Steely Dan concert.

            I had always worked long and hard, and weekends always. Best concerts are always the weekend. Steely Dan members were aware of that and so they held concerts on week nights so that other entertainers and musicians and songwriters could attend.

            The bad news is that they rarely toured. Their instrumentation was custom designed in the beginning and so many tracks we studio honed. Then there was the factor of prohibitive costs to reproduce even half of their works on stage. Eventually they began touring, but it was never more than a sparse schedule. I had tickets in my hand one day. Personal disasters occurred and I missed it.

            Then, in one of their last few concerts, I found myself blinking when the lights started to flash and my ears perked up and there they were on stage. I was close enough to hear the squeak on frets and the sound man cussin’. I remembered when entering the lobby, I heard so many accents, saw so many shades of American life, nerds, doctors, moms, students, teachers, young, old, I was moved in some kind of proud way. I think because I grew up in a time when music was chopped up in rigid categories and only certain types of people, certain ages, were supposed to like it, and only one or two per person. Seems very strange now, I know.

            Steely Dan was just one of those who broke a lot of barriers, like Motown groups, or Patsy Cline and others before them. Well, I guess now you know what “church” I attend. Can’t help it. I was born that way.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              AWESOME!!!

            • John P.

              My first Steely Dan concert was on their reunion tour in 1993. There have been many dozens since, but to see them on stage live after listening for so many years was a thrill, which proved that you in fact can buy a thrill, to cop a phrase. The lights went down, the band took the stage and the very first note, after twenty years of studio-only perfectionism, was the opening snarling chord at the beginning of “The Royal Scam.” A perfect choice to open a memorable evening.

              But the best night ever was the second concert at the Roseland ballroom in NYC, which is standing room only for about 1,500 people. I had managed to hook up with friends and was standing arm’s length from the stage, between Donald’s piano and the backup singers. All of the people in the first four or five rows were members of the official Steely Dan internet fan club, and had been to tons of shows thus far on the tour. We kept cracking up the background singers since we were doing their dance moves as well as they were.

              Best part was when they were getting to the end of the second set, the crowd was going insane bellowing the lyrics to “Kid Charlemagne.” Donald was playing his mobile keyboard and wandered over next to Walter, and was easily lip-read when he said to Walter, “What do they need us for?” Later, Becker, a master of laconic understatement, said to the audience, “I’ve been to more Steely Dan concerts than you have and I have to tell you this is the best one ever!” They were visibly blown away by the energy of the small audience.

              The opening band intro for the 2003 tour was “Cubano Chant,” by Ray Bryant and performed by a bunch of jazz greats. The standout here is drummer Keith Carlock who makes it look ridiculously easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtBFYUXqVS8. Jim Pugh’s trombone (!) solo is impressive as is Ted Baker’s piano work (probably the strongest pianist in their touring groups with the possible exception of Warren Bernhardt in 1993-1994).

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Yes, yes we in RTC love Steely Dan and they are an essential wog band, but nothing quite compares to the magic of L’Envoi: Thank You For Listening.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZd7MzF1RlA

            • John P.

              I hadn’t heard that before. Nice uptempo instrumental lead-in like something out of the “Up With People Greatest Hits” LP or maybe a Partridge Family outtake. And the vocals sound exactly like a Burl Ives or Thurl Ravenscroft number. Well, maybe like those guys if they were singing with their heads in a cardboard box. And the lyrics — well, they certainly could give Cole Porter a run for his money in terms of brilliantly clever rhymes and lucid visual imagery. Did he do any other albums?

            • Midwest Mom

              You did not compare this to my beloved Partidge Family, J.P. This must be someone posing as J.P.! My J.P. would never diss David Cassidy and Shirley Jones that way.

              I am launching an investigation. I’ll meet you halfway, J.P.. That’s better than no way.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU7psHBVyQE

            • Poison Ivy

              “Thank You for Listening”… an American classic.

            • Good god almighty L. Song Flubbard makes Leonard Nimoy sound like Pavarotti!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I love this story.

            • Couch_Incident

              Funny – I was on the fence about buying tickets to one of their concerts this summer, but you and TheHoleDoesNotExist have sold me on it. Glad to hear they still do their standards and not just what’s on the latest album.

              Generally, I don’t bother with pop concerts given the expense, the impersonal nature of the cheaper seats, and the lousy quality compared to the studio recordings.

            • John P.

              The set list does include a lot of the classics. Hell, they’re all classics since the most recent album was 2003. The one before that was 1999. And the one before that was … 1980 … The musicians supporting Fagen & Becker are outstanding — their resumes are unbelievably deep, if you check them out. It’s not like going to a Kiss concert with costumes and fireworks, but the musical professionalism is beyond belief. Check out the tons of amateur YouTube videos, particularly for tours 2003 and after, where the band is pretty much the current lineup, and you’ll see what I mean.

            • Couch_Incident

              Thanks, I’ll check out the YouTube videos. Not likely, but I’d love it if they’d play “Things I Miss the Most” (regrettably relevant at the moment) and Fagen’s classic “New Frontier.”

            • John P.

              They did play “New Frontier” at one of the specialty set list concerts at the Beacon Theater in NYC in 2011. Alas, “The Things I Miss The Most” is extremely doubtful; I’m not sure that it was on the set list for the 2003 tour that followed the release of the “Everything Must Go” album; these days the only song from that album they play with any regularity is “Godwhacker.” Memory dims, but they may have also played “Green Book” and “Lunch with Gina” on the 2009 specialty set lists. But patience is rewarded: I was there at the Beacon in 2009 when they finally played “Doctor Wu” live, only 35 years after it was recorded on Katy Lied; I don’t think they ever played that one live in their original incarnation when the album first came out.

              More’s the pity because “The Things I Miss the Most” has some of the most brilliant lyrics in the entire Steely Dan canon, IMHO. Also, Pixeleen is underappreciated, with brilliant storytelling and a great duet in the chorus with Fagen and Carolyn Leonhart; I don’t think that’s ever made it on the set list.

            • Midwest Mom

              You and J.P. are cracking me up. I am surrounded by Steely Dan groupies! (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) :]

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I have a confession! I fucking love the Eagles!

            • Midwest Mom

              I feel so left out – the three main guys from my favorite band are all dead…sniff..sniff…

              I wanna be sedated…

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlLtSG7xe4

          • Captain Howdy

            I had the same feeling when I finally made it to CBGB’s and saw the legendary loo.

            • ok – who are you ? cause seriously …i think you rock …and you are a rock star …so who are you ?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              This….I understand!

          • elar aitch

            Westminster Cathedral – while choir practice was going on; sun through stained glass windows…..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Sounds magical…..with the voices.,

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thank you, BTN. I was thinking yesterday that if it turns out the Marathon bomber was a lone nut case, that perhaps a resurgence of American spirit would get busy weaving on the social media network to pledge votes for transfering Billions not Millions from war fund and Mars rover expense accounts to brain research account. It is so long overdue. I’m glad the facts of how little research has been done is getting out there more and more. From the article’s author, Cynthia Graber:

        “Historically, every time society has advanced, at the root has been a scientist and an engineer dreaming.”

        Notice there is no inclusion of cult leaders, magicians or politicians.

        In my dream,,,brain research will lead to a vanishment of magicians and the cults they conjure and something, anything to replace the the current concept we known as politicians, who seem to be the only ones who support magicians and cults.

      • Poison Ivy

        “A person who is alarmed by noises, by sounds in general, by certain voices, who gets a headache or gets angry when the people around are “noisy” or the door slams or the dishes rattle, is a victim of extended hearing.”

        Or simply has a hangover from too much rum and too many pinks and grays.

    • i-Betty

      “Why just two days ago when my son passed out cold, I repeated his name and asked if he could hear me, then said, “Can you open your eye’s for me? It’s mom. I’m right here! You’re in the hallway right outside of your room. You passed out. Can you open your eyes?””

      Wonderful! 😀

    • i adore you ..i adore this post ..spoken like a true mom and a rational human being . Plus ~ you bake cookies …do you have a single brother ? If so .. I have a single sister …we get them together and BAM !

      • Midwest Mom

        Thanks, O’Brien! You know that I have been spreading the rumor that I am your evil twin, don’t you? 🙂 I don’t have any brothers, but I have a cousin who is single. He doesn’t drink, though and doesn’t date women who do. Is that a problem?

        • dammit 😉 you are MY evil twin ?? you are the nice one …

          • Midwest Mom

            I’ve been told that my brownies are sinful. You now know my dark side. (Hint hint – I use high cacao dark choclate.) ;]

  • The Storm video brings up a question I’d like to ask former staff & SO. I recall in Scientology a concept known as “exchange,” meaning that if there was adequate & fair compensation for services or goods you were providing to or receiving from another person, you were “in-exchange.” Conversely, if there was stealing, mooching or some other unfair taking-advantage, that was called “out-exchange.”
    So what happens when a staff or SO member making $30-60/week for full-time work brings up the concept of “exchange?”

    • Captain Howdy

      Scientologists don’t believe in charity or “out exchange” as they call it. Staff and S.O members are suppose to receive processing in lieu of higher pay. Usually this is little or none.

      • Observer

        And the “church” gets around its criminal out exchange by assuring them that they have endless lives in which to receive this training.

        I wonder what would happen if someone claiming to be a reincarnated staffer/Sea Ogre turned up at an org to get the training their previous meat sack was due but screwed out of .

        • The problem here is that when our thetans return from their respective implant stations, our past memories have been erased unless we have attested to OT 8. So, like Sisyphus, we have to trudge down to the bottom of the mountain and start pushing the rock uphill all over again.

          And as nobody has ever remembered their past certs and course completions it suggests a certain lackadaisical and unprofessional attitude at a senior C/S level which must be addressed.

          Andrew

    • FistOfXenu

      This comes up from time to time Racnad. $cientarCONon is hypocrisy written on horseshit. Just like the most suppressive people on the planet turn out to be LRH and DM if you use Hubbard’s checklist, the most out-exchange people on the planet are the cult. You can tell because they whine on and on about how everybody else is a criminal that wants something for nothing. What they mean is the people that want their money back when they figure out they were scammed by the clams.

      Of course they’re supposed to get paid with “services”. SO and staff think “services” mean they get processed up the bridge. It really means they get screwed by the cult.

      I have a couple of guidelines that help me with this stuff. If ScientarCONon is accusing somebody else of something evil, it means they’re doing it themselves in some form. The more noise they make about it the more they’re doing it. The more they whine about being victims of something the more they’re doing it to other people.

      Also the more evil it is the more the cult is likely to do it and blame somebody else.

      And of course, $cientarCONon is always worse than you can imagine.

  • BuryTheNuts2
    • stillgrace

      It amazes me the way scientology carries on with their hype and lies as if nothing is wrong, as if they haven’t been exposed as a supreme con and a dangerous, criminal organization.

      • Missionary Kid

        Like LRH, they believe everything that drops out of their mouths. They base everything on his lies, and add theirs to it.

      • i-Betty

        Their heads are firmly in the sand.

      • Ze Moo

        They think that no one has a memory that extends into the past and sometimes they are correct. One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That is scamatology, insanity in practice.

  • Ze Moo

    I think Lroon just ‘cognated’ the Whos Tommy.

    “See me, feel me, hear me………

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV_9pn7MGUo

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Ooh, I just got a restim on an old Roger Daltrey engram 😉

  • Still reading the sci-fi-fans’ take on Battlefield Earth. Thought this parody of LRH’s writing style was devastatingly spot-on:

    Battlezone Planet wrote:

    For 3 human days, Johnny had been on the scary side of the moon, where the danger-aliens were known to roam. He opened his space-backpack to do an inventory:

    One sleep-blanket.
    A flask-holder of liquid drink-water.
    Four holder-containers of nutrition-food.

    Through his vision-glasses, Johnny saw a colony of danger-aliens and feared they might catch the scent of his nutrition-food.

    The danger-aliens were out on patrol-patrol, hunting for nutrition-food. Johnny thought with his mind-brain, “I must bury the nutrition-food. I MUST bury the nutrition-food.”

  • i-Betty

    Message for TheHoleDoesNotExist who asked yesterday if anyone knew when the photo of Shelly Miscavige had been taken 🙂 I asked over at OCMB and Karen said she doesn’t have dates but a good estimate would be 2000-2005. So that’s narrowed it down a little bit! xxx

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thank you for doing that. According to Wiki, pantyhose began it’s decline by 2006. Okay, that fits. Anyway, it’s good to have a date verification on these things.

  • FistOfXenu

    I keep meaning to say to TonyO, thanks for that ad for the X-ray vision. It was a regular feature in a lot of things I read back in the old days. Nice to see it again.

    • Missionary Kid

      C’m on. Fess up. ” It was a regular feature in a lot of things I read back in the old days.” really means comic books. 😉

      • FistOfXenu

        Hell yeah! But also some of the Popular Mechanics kind of mags had these. I could be wrong but it might’ve even been in MAD and stuff like that. And there was a couple of magazines all about horror movies and it was in there.

        • Missionary Kid

          They knew what the market was: teenage boysl

        • N. Graham

          Not MAD, they didn’t have any advertising except for their own stuff. But maybe Cracked or Sick.

          • FistOfXenu

            I can’t remember which one it was. I only read MAD occasionally but most of my younger brothers and sisters loved it so I probably got that wrong.

            • Poison Ivy

              I loved it – especially their movie parodies. Made me laugh out loud.

      • Captain Howdy

        For me it was comics (Marvel) and Famous Monsters of Filmland

        • FistOfXenu

          Famous Monsters – yup, that’s one of the magazines I used to read. Good to see somebody else remembers it.

          • Captain Howdy

            Famous Monsters, Creepy, Eerie, Gallery, Oui..oh wait, those last 2 came later. Sorry.

            • FistOfXenu

              I was out trying to be grown up by the time the later ones came out so I only saw them when I went home on leave.

            • N. Graham

              Vampirella.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hard to beat some of the ads in “The Aberee”:

          [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/wcecra.jpg[/IMG]

          [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/in7982.jpg[/IMG]

          • Observer

            Of course Elron wanted a death ray. I don’t know what he thought he’d get with a $250 R&D budget though. *eyeroll*

        • N. Graham

          I’ll admit I bit on the “see behind you” glasses. They actually did work a bit but looked so dorky even no self-respecting eight year old would ever wear them.

        • Espiando

          And, of course, Famous Monsters of Filmland was edited by Forrest Ackerman, the former literary agent of…L. Ron Hubbard. It all links together.

          The best thing Famous Monsters of Filmland did for me was introduce me to Doctor Who, in a story they did on the show back in 1979 when it first came (back) to the US. So I must credit Forrie for introducing me to what is, frankly, the longest non-familial relationship of my life.

        • Poison Ivy

          LOVED those Capt!

        • N. Graham

          Alien eye! Here is a website with all the old comic book ad images:

          http://www.tomheroes.com/Comic%20Ads/classic%20ads/alien_eye.htm

          • Captain Howdy

            COOL and thanks, and I still collect all that stuff. Aurora monster models unopened sell for thousands..if you can find one.

      • Midwest Mom
        • No! I don’t remember the ‘Charles Atlas’ ads in ‘Cracked’ magazine. Nor would I have saved up my three shillings a week pocket money and trudged off down to Victoria Avenue in Wanganui to buy International Money Orders until I had enough to send a letter to the New World.

          Neither would I have stood around in the playground drinking my government sponsored half-pint of milk chewing it for a minute before swallowing it.

          And I have no idea what ‘Dynamic Tension’ is.

          As for worrying about bullies kicking sand in my face in front of my girlfriend, I didn’t care about girls. They weren’t interested in building model aeroplanes and were hopeless at playing cricket so what use were they?

          “What? My e-meter is rock slamming? Absurd – it must be faulty!”

          Andrew

          • noseinabk

            🙂 How wise of you to not have been taken in by that ad!

    • Ze Moo

      “Know what crustaceans know”. Sea Monkeys never looked like the ad and “Grit’ was a very crappy ‘newspaper’.

      • sugarplumfairy

        “know what crustaceans know..” That they taste great with cocktail sauce?

        • Ze Moo

          They were ads of something touting ‘Cosmic Consciousness’. And of course the 100’s of little plastic army men.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Oh I loved those little plastic army men! I used to keep them in a big baggie and carry them around with me. I made awesome battlefields in the dirt with hills and hedgerows and everything so I could work out my attack strategies. I pitted the smaller blue men against the slightly larger green ones.

            I never had the kahki colored ones. If I did, I think I would have made them the RAF.

            • Poison Ivy

              I love a girl who played with army men! Me, I didn’t have army men because my Mom was an ardent pacifist. I was not even allowed to play with squirt guns (though she softened on that one in later years, as long as they looked like something out of Lost In Space and not actual handguns.) However, because she felt the Civil War was historical and important for me to learn about (evils of slavery and all that), I was allowed to have Civil War soldiers. I had a really nice set of Blues and Grays and of course the Blues always won. I was also allowed Roman Gladiators. My Mom was a classicist, so ancient wars didn’t count. Oh – I also wasn’t allowed to watch TV shows that “made fun” of war. Problem was, she didn’t really KNOW which TV shows made fun of war, so she kind of guessed. Shows I couldn’t watch because they made fun of war? Rat Patrol (wasn’t interested anyway); Hogan’s Heroes; Gilligan’s Island. Yes, she though Gilligan’s Island was something to do with WWII. When I was older, I caught a few episodes and demonstrated to her that there was no war going on between Ginger, MaryAnn, The Howells and The Professor. That’s what happens when you grow up with an uber-liberal Mother.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You missed Hogan’s Heroes? That is just wrong on so many levels

            • Poison Ivy

              I know. I know. My mother thought it was making fun of concentration camps (like I said, she really didn’t pay attention to TV. She was a reader.) My husband re-introduced it to me later in life – it truly was quite funny. Mom also had her suspicions about “Get Smart.”

            • FistOfXenu

              Don’t tell me you never saw M*A*S*H? That’s cruelty to children. In fact to anybody. And you couldn’t get more anti-war.

            • Poison Ivy

              No! M*A*S*H was an ANTI-war series! My mother LIVED for M*A*S*H! (And Alan Alda looks a little like my Dad)

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s a relief. Otherwise I’d have to find a way to send you the M*A*S*H DVDs to make up for it. It oughta be required viewing in schools.

            • Bella Legosi

              I watched it faithfully in 7th grade and still watch it with my Uncle! As well as Jack Benny and Burns and Allen. I think I was born in the wrong decade! Cuz there are no other 29 year olds who I know that watch any of those shows. 🙁

            • FistOfXenu

              29 and you watch my favorite shows? I’m impressed! How are you with old movies?

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I am getting there with the oldies. However, my history teacher in 10th grade could not believe I owned a copy of Gone With the Wind. I really dig Liz Taylor, Bette Davis, Van Johnson, oh oh Cary Grant and my fav so far PETER FREAKING SELLERS!

            • Bella Legosi

              saw a great movie the other night, “Caged” that was on TCM damn good for its time!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Your mom sounds very cool.. My dad was a policeman, but we weren’t allowed toy weapons.. Like your mom, not even water pistols.. Can’t even tell you how many times I heard “No guns.. They’re not toys.. They kill people..” I could play a mean air bow and arrow though..

            • Poison Ivy

              Ever see The Walking Dead, Sugar? Don’t wanna mess with Daryl’s bow and arrows!

            • Captain Howdy

              I had at least 30 firearms in my basement room when I was 15 and I turned out OK, LOL. At least I never shot anyone with 2 or 4 legs. I luv guns, I just don’t think most people should have them (including myself).

            • Poison Ivy

              I was recently in Northern Vermont on a job. Beautiful country. Skiing, lakes, rich people’s vacations homes, farms…and lots of poverty, but a sort of genteel rural poverty, as opposed to squalid city poverty (not that rural poverty can’t be squalid, too.) And EVERYBODY has guns. Guns plural. Mostly shotguns and hunting rifles, but a lot of people have handguns and carry them pretty much everywhere except buildings like courthouses, hospitals, police stations, etc. Anyway, the DA for the county told me that last year there were only 7 murders in the whole state of Vermont. 20 murders in one year was a record high. They all have guns. So why isn’t everybody shooting everybody? My theory is, they live far enough apart. People aren’t meant to be crowded together in close proximity all the time. Most of the murders aren’t people attacking strangers or their neighbors; tragically they’re domestic violence. If we all lived a few miles away from our neighbors, we’d be a lot less dangerous with our guns…unfortunately, we’re just as dangerous to our family members. The enemy is inside the house.

            • everyone in VT smokes pot ..chills them out ..guns or no guns 😉

            • sugarplumfairy

              Oh, we had guns in the house..but they were locked up tight.. We just weren’t allowed toy guns.. I guess my Dad wanted us to realize that they were serious business and not to be taken lightly.. I don’t have a problem with people owning guns.. I have a problem with assault weapons..

            • Bella Legosi

              My ex was taught how to shoot around 3. Yes, 3 years, and he turned out well too. Big rule I always follow is never point a gun at a living thing (loaded or not) if you don’t intend on killing it. First rule is always make sure if it is loaded (chamber check) or not!

            • elar aitch

              They are my weapon of choice some the zombie apocalypse.

            • DodoTheLaser

              My dad was a policeman too. Every time I would sneak in a military base next door and steal a gas mask or AK-47 bullets, he would take it away from me. I was 8. He bought me a cool bicycle shortly after though, so I wasn’t too mad at him. LOL

            • Midwest Mom

              P..I., I am literally laughing out loud because instead of Pinks and Grays, you have a history playing around with Blues and Grays! 🙂

            • Poison Ivy

              😉

            • Though television was introduced in New Zealand in the ’60’s, it took a fair while for it to become popular.

              My parents were quite uninterested in this new medium, “Who needs to see the fiddler’s elbow.” was my mother’s opinion, though after I bought them a set in my first year at University they soon became addicted!

              BBC World Service on the radio was my world. Broadcast on long-wave it traveled half-way round the planet and provided many happy hours of listening pleasure. Music, with Irish, Scottish and Music Hall Half-Hours, humour with ‘The Navy Lark’ and the ‘The Goon Show’, erudition with ‘My Word!’ and of course ball-by-ball commentaries of cricket matches from the far-flung parts of the Empire.

              What more could a growing lad desire!

              Andrew

            • my family is coming to live with you ..just fyi

            • Captain Howdy

              “Combat” was great, one of the best TV dramas ever, and Rat Patrol wasn’t a comedy, at least not intentionally.

            • noseinabk

              See, this kind of thing is why I rarely post. How stupid do I feel that I only used my brothers army men to be my Barbie minions?

            • Poison Ivy

              Every Barbie needs her minions!

        • RMycroft

          “This bath is too darned hot!”

  • Bob 74

    “A person who … gets a headache or gets angry when the people around are “noisy” or the door slams or the dishes rattle, is a victim of extended hearing.”

    This is just common sense. Im not sure who would have an enticing interest in arguing against a normal concept basis.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Ur busted!
      In fact, you are the reason I blame EVERYTHING on the Marcabians!

    • FistOfXenu

      Try anybody who reads the words “a victim of extended hearing” and has enough knowledge of biology and anatomy and the human body to say “what the fuck kind of horseshit is this guy trying to sell?”

      • Missionary Kid

        Why do you think he dropped the concept when he moved on to $cientology? It’s too much bullshit.

        • FistOfXenu

          Imagine that! something that was too much bullshit even for Hubbard to shovel. Of course he preferred horseshit to remind people that he invented bronco busting when he was still in diapers and right after he invented nuclear physics, Buddhism, street fighting and the sky.

          • Missionary Kid

            There was probably too much blowback from people who needed glasses or hearing aids.

            • FistOfXenu

              I think most of those didn’t admit it didn’t work. They just attested to how amazing Dianetics was and how much better they can see or hear and how great Ron was. And then they only wore their glasses or hearing aids when they weren’t around other $cientarCONonists.

    • Midwest Mom

      It’s not “extended hearing”. It’s just a response to a stimulus.

      I am always willing to argue the ridiculous fluff that Hubbard spouted!

    • sugarplumfairy

      Apparently, there’s nothing common about sense.. lrh relied on that when developing his evil master plan..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        good one. Evil and don’t forget, His Oiliness.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m Italian.. I like oil.. I use it with everything.. Oil is too good for him..

          • Espiando

            SPF: Oil is wonderful But that crappy blend that they make people swallow during the Purif? It isn’t even good enough for Scientologists.

          • Observer

            It depends what kind of oil. Rancid cooking oil actually sounds like a pretty good fit.

    • Captain Howdy

      Evil Bob, what did you do with our Bob?

      • sugarplumfairy

        yah!

      • Bob

        CH, I’m here, and bob 74 sounds like a plant to me. Just common non-sensical. I believed Dianetics for decades. What an engram!

    • First, define “extended hearing.” There’s nothing in the scientific literature, so I’m relying on you to at least tell me what it is. I don’t know how something who’s existence is undefined can be called common sense.

      And please don’t tell me that it’s something that sets yer teeth on edge when the dishes rattle, because that would be, you know, circular.

      • Midwest Mom

        I just realized that I am quite deficient in my dish rattling duties! I think I’ll ask my husband tonight if he wants me to rattle his dishes. 🙂

        • FistOfXenu

          If my wife asked me that I’d offer to stir her pudding.

          Just saying

    • i-Betty

      Silly billy 🙂

    • hogarthian

      I have a ‘go to’ phrase for this shite:
      Bob, put a sock in it mate…. you’re embarrassing yourself.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “who would have an enticing interest in arguing…?” Oooh, wait. I know this one Bob. The answer is: No one. At least, not one of the 74 Voices in Hubbard’s head. Allow me to break it down for you, Bob. Hubbard’s many personalities could not see or hear anything, probably because they were Imaginary, Bob. But Hubbard could see and hear All of them, but he didn’t Want to see and hear all of them, all of the time, or at the same time, or when he least expected one of them to slam the door in his head. Makes sense to me, Bob, so count me as 1.

    • Espiando

      It is neither common nor sense.

      Normally, I’d go with “Don’t feed the troll,” except that you’re not a troll, are you, Bob? You’re serious about this. And since you’re staying here, that means you’re not OSA, who normally throw one salvo and the occasional response, then leave. That means you’re doing A To E.

      What are your crimes, Bob? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?

      • grundoon

        No, this one is the troll. And he/she did promptly confess to crimes the last time someone asked this.

    • Bella Legosi

      The trouble is is that L Ron packaged and sold COMMON SENSE like he was the one to discover it! lol There is nothing wise in that statement, I agree! I think the argument would be how he has used common sense for his own purpose!

  • Captain Howdy

    They are having the Marathon Memorial at Holy Cross Cathedral as I write this. They have had faith leaders from every religion imaginable speaking, sometimes two or more from one faith.

    So far I haven’t seen anybody from the Church of $cientology.

    • Observer

      Not even a noble, dedicated, able, touch-assisting, pamphleteering Volunteer Minister? Those bigots!!

      • Midwest Mom

        Fitting, though, since Hubbard claimed that all religions were false memories from r-6 implants.

        • Bella Legosi

          And that is why I want to instigate a fight between them and Jack “the Walking Bible” Van Impe! If not for my own amusement then for the entertainment that would ensue on his show! Let them both waste money on eachother.

    • Maybe only religions were invited to provide speakers?

      Andrew

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Zing!

      • Observer

        Those bigots!!

      • Sherbet

        Dry humor, Andrew, dry humor.

    • Bradley Greenwood

      It won’t be the same without a bunch of yellow windbreakers.

      • Midwest Mom

        Well, since yellow jackets are predators and nuisance pests, I’m sure that no one is upset that they aren’t buzzing around at the pulpit.

        People should be on the lookout for their stingers, though. They like to blend in with the crowd and attack when people least expect it.

        • FistOfXenu

          Feel my stinger – mean finger

          • Midwest Mom

            Arrrggghhh! I’ve been stung! Fist, that does it; you’ve lost your stinger, mister! (And wipe that smirk off of your face.) Honestly!

            • FistOfXenu

              It was only my stinger. Could’ve been worse. 😉

    • FistOfXenu

      A Marathon Memorial? Will it really be 3 hours long?
      Seriously you couldn’t let $cientarCONonists in there, they’d be waiting for DM to show up so they could get some sleep and wouldn’t know what to do when he didn’t take the mini podium and go on and on and on …

      • That WOULD be a Marathon Memorial if they invited DM.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      If anyone spots a single, solitary one of those vultures hovering around, when you’re done puking, would you mind terribly getting a snapshot or short vid and reporting directly to The Bunker, and then Boston Globe of course.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    This teenager is not a minister, or a volunteer. He says he worked “9 to 6” and he brought in “business.” He was not paid minimum wage and he should file a complaint with:
    U.S. Department of Labor (DOL)
    ESA Wage & Hour Division
    Cincinnati Area Office
    550 Main Street
    Room 10-409
    Cincinnati, OH 45202-5208
    Phone: (513) 684-2942
    Fax: (513) 684-2906

  • My brother actually ordered those x-ray glasses from that ad when he was 10. When they came in the mail, there were small feathers with a pattern on them where the lens should be. It created a shadow of the thing you were looking at, so the “x-ray” part was an opaque copy of the original. Although it wasn’t an x-ray, it was still fun to see the illusion.

    • I’m one of those who was often tempted but never succumbed to sending in for the X-Ray Specs. They’re probably somewhat valuable now as a nostalgia item.

  • wannabeclear

    There seems to be something slightly off with that kid, besides the fact that he drank the kool-aid. I’m glad he’s out and that his sister seems to have been working to make it happen, but he also may be susceptible to getting hooked back in if they promise him more and better things…like minimum wage. It’s so sad that kids like this are being hooked into that mindfuck. Hopefully he will have the willpower and presence of mind (likely with the help of his sister), to stay away for good.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Yes, they both seem to be in need of a little healing and education. Hope one of them gets help …outside scientology and outside their family “helpers”. An alert anon spotted another of the sister’s videos over at WWP. A tad disturbing.

      http://youtu.be/R4CWGKktCb0

      • wannabeclear

        Oh crap. I just watched that video and a few others by “Storm Zara.” She’s as fucked up as he is, clearly. Someone needs to help these kids. Wow.

  • Midwest Mom

    Off Topic / Has anyone heard if Kerry Kennedy is still going to speak at the Scientology front group party at Anne Archer’s house on May 1st?

    • N. Graham

      Ya! They never did answer my e-mail.

      • i-Betty

        That’s almost word-for-word the response I received, and still nothing.

  • Bella Legosi

    So Disqus really sucks a butt! This vampire couldn’t stay awake any longer once it popped out this morn! I am starting to really dislike a server cloud some where over the rainbow of the internet! I can not abide no communication in my own little Satellite of Love!

    • FistOfXenu

      Yup. Disqus is the only thing that ever crashes my browser. I just had to restart it again. The Bunker is the only place I bother with now. If Tony could find a better way to do comments I’d leave Disqus and never look back. Next time it crashes I’ll give up and go for supper. Damn Disqus!

      • Sandy

        It’s so weird. I have been on all day and have had virtually no problems …

        • Bella Legosi

          It was seriously down for maintenance on my end around 430am pst

          • Sandy

            Bella – I got on around 9am CDT. But, have had no probs ….. very strange …..

        • DodoTheLaser

          Same here. Nice and smooth.

  • Bella Legosi

    RE: Peter Cockerell== WOW……Thank you guys for serving slices of the bunker humble pie while this vamp was resting!

  • Bella Legosi

    Hey Tony, was wondering if you have interviewed anyone that was in the military who served in the Iraq or Afghanistan war who are or were Scientologists? I tried doing a search of how many claim that as a religion and didn’t find much. That would be a great story! If I come across any or any who are being approached I will try my hardest to talk them out of it and get into contact with you! But yeah just wondering!

  • 0tessa

    Dianetics creates a reactive mind instead of clearing it (if such a thing exists eventually). Hubbard knew this. That’s why Scientology came about. With Scientology body thetans are created. Likewise self-created in the end.
    Combined with excessive confessionals, this is a dangerous and tragic scenario.

    • Midwest Mom

      Very well said, Otessa!

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    As soon as Super Power opens Scientologists will get Super Powers unlike anything ever seen on this planet or any other planet in this sector of the galaxy.

    We in RTC promise all Scientologists that Super Power will open very soon, this after we finish installing 1,000 Framistans and then ground them to the copper rods that connect to enthetalators in the Perceptics modulator unit of Super Power.

    And then of course we need to find 2,000 more Sea Org members to staff Super Power.

    There are also breathing tubes that need to be installed to assist Scientologists when they are immersed in the Underwater for ten hours per session in the Wateriness Vat.

    Once these few things are done, Super Power will be opened!

  • aquaclara

    For those of you who might have missed this, here is a great write-up in yesterday’s Daily Kos about Tony’s terrific posting. Nice fan club over there….
    “There hasn’t been too much good news for the Church of Scientology lately. Aside from folks having fun with its unusual, space-alien-based cosmology, it’s recently run into serious trouble over claims of human trafficking, its operation of dubious drug rehabilitation centers, and abuse of its tax-exempt status.

    Today is no better, as former Village Voice Editor-in-Chief Tony Ortega released a fascinating exposé about how David Miscavige, the successor of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard who for many years has been the group’s
    unquestioned leader, became tired of his wife—and rather than divorce her, sentenced her to what amounts to permanent imprisonment in a Church compound. The story lends more fuel to the fire for critics who accuse Scientology of human trafficking, as well as unjust enrichment of Miscavige in violation of IRS rules”(Jake McIntyre)

    And since I was there, here is a posting which ran there earlier this week regarding Jenna’s and Marc’s books…
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/15/1192854/-Political-Book-Club-The-Children-of-Scientology-Narconon

    • sugarplumfairy

      Thanks, Aqua..

  • Bella Legosi

    So, I was peer presured into drinking before my strict rule of 5pm by my best friend. We got to talking about Co$ and their free “stress” tests in Cali. Apparently, she was approached by those on the street and she told them, “I am not your God reincarnated L Ron! Take your “tests” and shove them up your ass!” I love my best friend! Fellow merchant of chaos! I am not responsible for what I write from now on! I will be listening to bad music and dancing just as badly until my beer runs out! *will prolly send those at Supernatural doing Psy’s Gentleman very badly in hopes they release the cast doing the same*

    • Bella Legosi

      I must be under the influence to dance to Psy by the way…..sober I just nod my head and usually uninterested, unless I see a small child dancing to Psy, that is funny.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Tag….Your it!

    • Bruce

      I’m waiting for the day that happens to me, so I can say “I take my Tone up to 41!” (“This is Spinal Tap” reference)

  • Poison Ivy

    Finally dropping in at the end of a miserable day. Another great Dianutty post, Tony! I was thinking about those x-ray specs in the ad. I remember those ads (I’m old enough.) My late Dad had a pair and used to pretend very convincingly he could see through things. I think I believed him until I was about 10. He also used to say he could fly on days when there were no clouds in the sky. Every kid in the neighborhood believed him. Come to think of it, in his funny little tall tales, you could say he was like a benign, cute, charming & kind version of LRH, without the narcissism, psychosis and savoir complex. In other words, nothing like LRH.

    Not to hijack the thread, but I just read this on Gawker: http://bit.ly/12qShN5 . I had no idea COB had taken over a sorority in his spare time. Is this part of his new plan for Ideal Orgs?

    • FistOfXenu

      Good to see you PI. Sorry about your day. Mrs Fist swears by hot milk at the end of a crappy day. With or without a little brandy in it as you like.

      Sorry I won’t be hanging around much more now. Disqus keeps biting me so I’m gonna let it stew in its own juices and take Mrs Fist out for a moonlit drive instead. 😉 Enjoy the board, it’s been fun.

      • Captain Howdy

        Capt. Howdy swears by some Dr Pepper and Jim Beam Black at the end of another lackadaisical day. : )

    • noseinabk

      Thanks for the link PI.
      Maybe COB has a long lost secret child.

      • noseinabk

        BTW, how old is little misscavige?

        • ‘Loretta’s Baby’ was born April 30, 1960, which makes him 52.

          Andrew

          • Just a minute! COB’s 53rd birthday is in 12 days. Already the senior pimps in the Sea Org and Org Staff will be requesting donations to buy him a splendid present. (I’m sorry, did I say ‘pimps’ – of course I meant officers.)

            But what to buy the ecclesiastical plenipotentiary of the world’s fastest growing religion in recognition of his role in ‘Keeping Scientology Working’ by relentless toil and devotion?

            I’m sure some big Thetan will make the right decision! Or perhaps Mr Ortega could ask his readers for helpful suggestions.

            Andrew

            • noseinabk

              My vote is for a burl wood clock. Just tacky enough to satisfy Davy and also us, as we watch the countdown,

            • elar aitch

              Ooo and something to remind him of Tory Magoo – tick, tock, tick, tock, time is on OUR side

            • sugarplumfairy
            • Goodness me Miss Plum! I thought Amazon only sold books! But is there more to discover on their website?

              In April 2013 1 knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.

              Mr-S-Leather ElectraStim Sensavox Stimulator with Universal Electrical Outlet Adapter

              I’d be the last person to suggest that this device could replace the e-meter in sec-checking for withholds, merely that it might be a useful adjunct, particularly if the manufacturers warning not to turn the power output up to 99 was ignored.

              http://www.amazon.com/Mr-S-Leather-ElectraStim-Stimulator-Universal-Electrical/dp/B001TJT36I/ref=sr_1_6?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1366359083&sr=1-6&keywords=electrical+stimulators

              Andrew

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Omgoodness yes.. Who knew such essential Accoutrements for COB could be so easily had? this could definitely rank as his bestest birthday ever!

          • noseinabk

            52 and no kids? Cant help but think LRH helped him along on his view on
            having children.

            • I think it was Shelley who commented that she didn’t want children as she didn’t know how they’d turn out.

              Perhaps a wise decision as there’s no room for two COBs.

              Andrew

            • Roger Larsson

              ”don’t know” engrams causing a “hyper thinking” in DM?

              Scientologists fucked by LRH fuck others to be fucked by LRH and it’s in a such a fucking environment accidents and problems (children) are growing up inside.

              Children made in love aren’t any accidents or any problems, they are children playing and having fun in life instead of something evil for the stats.

            • Bella Legosi

              It would make for a great movie…….oh shit they already made The Omen! 😉

  • DodoTheLaser

    What Scientology symbol should look like:

    [IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/2z6ck6d.jpg[/IMG]

    Courtesy of RTC, EXODUS and USSR.

    • Snippy_X

      Yes, but you forgot the slash mark: $

      • DodoTheLaser

        No reason to slash such a wicked beauty.
        Its essence is its own demise.

        • Snippy_X

          OK sure, sometimes less is more.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Re: 2 Cincinnati vids – these kids are either Anons or work for FBI. Or just thrill seekers/youtubers.
    Either way, nice work. I hope Jeanie (ED) and Thalia (DSA) are not in too much trouble over this.
    Them sec checks and lower conditions can be a bitch.

    • Captain Howdy

      Yes. I believe they are pranksters.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Message to every Bob on disqus – thank you for making the comment section in The Bunker even longer.
    The stats are up, the internet is watching.

    • noseinabk

      🙂 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  • Grant C

    I wish there was an easier way to just say the founder of Scientology was an idiot.

    • DodoTheLaser

      He was crazy, but not stupid. Love you, grumpy.

      • Grant C

        Or a mix of crazy and stupid… let’s not forget about his intellectual masterpiece “All About Radiation.”

        • DodoTheLaser

          Well yeah. Niacin and rum, I suppose does that.

    • FistOfXenu

      Grant, isn’t that what you just did? 😛

  • SP ‘Onage

    Breaking News: Shoot out possibly with Boston bomber. Live right now.

    • Captain Howdy

      One policeman dead, one critically wounded

      One terrorist suspect dead, one at large

      And apparently the suspects are foreign born jihadists

      • Bella Legosi

        Wow I was watching CNN and then turned it on Fox for shits and gigs……Fox says there are explosives everywhere! God I hate Fox

        • Captain Howdy

          Local news says that the suspects were lobbing grenades or IED’s at cops during extended car chase and supposedly there are unexploded devices on Memorial Drive!

          They killed the cop at MIT were they had supposedly gone to plant explosives.

          • Bella Legosi

            Wow….it was cleared up for me after I switched back to CNN, but not before that weird moment on Fox where ya see someone lay down in front of 50+ cops, they didn’t have time to censor all the curse words and then went back to studio, I saw a little of it on CNN, but I am thinking this was mistaken identity! If that was just an on looker he has some shitty pants.

            They are telling people to just call in sick today because of the unexploded devices. Don’t answer ya door Cap! (if you are in that area)

            • Captain Howdy

              I don’t live in the Watertown area but I do live in a neighborhood that has a large Arab population — very nice people generally speaking as long as you don’t criticize their religion.

            • Bella Legosi

              Good, peeps were worried for ya on Monday, that is why I said what I did.

              Yes, I have a psudo-Uncle Abdul (that is his real name) and he came from Libya back in the day. He is pretty damn chill. Got back into Islam, got married, and became a citizen. He doesn’t like people mocking his religion, but does admit there are crazies. But, unfortunately crazy is a side effect of the opiate of religion in my mind! I live in an area of SE PDX that the postmen call Little UN. It is home to a lot of refugees from all walks of life.

            • Captain Howdy

              Well my neighborhood is like 20 minutes away by car and if i was him i would come here because he could blend in fairly easily.

            • Bella Legosi

              That’s a pretty stiff jog if its 20m by car, it looks as tho Watertown is hosting the most police and federal agents ever in that town.

            • Captain Howdy

              He could have carjacked someone. Now they’re evacuating the entire city of Watertown and all public transportation in Massachusetts has been suspended.

            • Bella Legosi

              That is entirely possible, but evacuating the town is a safety measure as well, with the police so on edge I imagine it wouldn’t take much for an incident to happen. Choking off the public transit system cuts down on that as well as cutting down the chances this dude will kill more or take hostages. A lot of people are gonna get this Friday off.

              This is gonna end bloody as far as White Hat is concerned. Police, federal, local, or state do not like terrorists who kill one of their own. I hope he gets taken to Beth Israel as well 😛

              *also lobbing grenades or any exploding device at any police or agent is just a death wish made by a coward!

            • Captain Howdy

              Watertown has a 30,000 + population

            • Bella Legosi

              holy shit! thanks for the stat! i do not envy any of those cops this morning! that is a job I could never do much less under these circumstances!

            • Captain Howdy

              Suspects are from Turkey and supposedly have military training.

            • Bella Legosi

              I wonder if this isn’t what Assad was talking about the other day. I came across an article saying Assad will make the West and US pay for helping the rebels. I may be reading too much into it but that did come to mind when you posted ^

              *http://world.time.com/2013/04/17/assad-accuses-west-of-backing-al-qaida-in-syria/

            • Captain Howdy

              It’s possible even though Syria and Turkey are on the fritz right now. The Gov has ordered Cambridge and all surrounding neighborhoods CLOSED till further notice.

            • Bella Legosi

              Is is safe to say they are turning it up to 1111? CNN said there are about 10,000 police descending on Watertown at the moment. Buses filled with cops are heading that way.

              Yeah this is gonna end bloody.

            • Captain Howdy

              10.000 cops against one Chechnyan..this could be close

            • Bella Legosi

              lol hate to laugh but sometimes it is called for! I would say unleash the hounds! But not one dog or officer is worth that POS getting! But, I don’t care how tough you are, get chased by some big ass German shepherds and you know you are in some big time shit! I got chased by two of them once when I was 11, thankfully out ran them, but not after kicking one in the head. My dad was not pleased, had a talk with the owners and after that I never had a prob with them again. Although it created one hell of an engram for me lol I don’t trust Shepard’s to this day.

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah it sounds like ALL the surrounding areas are gonna be closed off, they are telling everyone to just stay in. I counted like 6 towns. Mass isn’t that big

            • Bella Legosi

              Captain O my Captain you are a better resource then CNN! 🙂

            • Bella Legosi

              sounds like they are expanding to surrounding areas…..schools closed

            • Bella Legosi

              and now that people are being evacuated out of their homes is gonna give that dipshit Alex Jones screaming material for weeks!

      • Bella Legosi

        They are taking him down now……fox juat cut the feed……may not have been the real guy tho…..shit those cops are on edge…..fox didnt have rtimw to censor them curseing

    • Bella Legosi

      If he was a jijadist he died at Beth Israel……..good riddance and Uncle Cosmo works in mysterious ways

  • John Barnes

    Nice article Thank you