Subscription options

Facebook

Subscribe to our e-mail list

When Scientology was in trouble in 1955, L. Ron Hubbard told prosecutor he was a ‘psychologist’

HubbardPhoenix

[Hubbard in Phoenix, circa 1955]

One of Scientology’s early run-ins with the law resulted in a remarkable letter by L. Ron Hubbard that has previously never seen the light of day — in it, Hubbard claimed to be a psychologist, and proposed that a vast conspiracy had been aimed at his Phoenix, Arizona operation. It’s a remarkable letter, and we have our friend and researcher R.M. Seibert to thank for bringing it to us after she managed to pry it out of the possession of the Food and Drug Administration with the help of the MuckRock website.

From 1958 to 1971, the FDA investigated Hubbard and Scientology, including a raid of the Washington DC Scientology church in January 1963. For more than a year, we’ve been posting remarkable documents from the FDA files, some of which have never been posted online before.

This time, we have documents that the FDA obtained from the files of officials in Phoenix, where Scientology faced one of its early legal challenges. L. Ron Hubbard had published Dianetics in 1950 while he was living in New Jersey, and that’s where the first Dianetics “foundation” was formed following the book’s surprising popularity. He also promoted Dianetics in Los Angeles, where another foundation was formed. But Dianetics proved to be a passing fad, and by 1951 Hubbard was in financial trouble and his foundations were bankrupt. He regrouped in Wichita with the help of an oilman millionaire there, and then moved to Phoenix in 1952, coming up then with his new idea he called “Scientology” and creating the “Hubbard Association of Scientologists International,” HASI.

Then, in September 1955, there was an interesting arrest in Phoenix of a Scientologist for practicing, well, Scientology. His name was Edd Clark, 56, and he had come to Phoenix to join HASI after he had received training in Scientology at another HASI branch near Seattle. He was arrested after he practiced Scientology techniques on two women, taking payments of $55 after helping them with complaints they had of headaches and other ailments. It turned out, however, that the women were actually working a sting — one was a police detective, the other worked in the office of county prosecutor William P. Mahoney Jr.

Clark was charged with practicing medicine without a license, and the case made the local newspapers.

By then, Hubbard himself had moved on from Phoenix to Washington DC, where he opened the “Founding” Church of Scientology that July. Two days after the news of Edd Clark’s arrest was made public, Hubbard sat down and wrote a really remarkable letter to Mahoney, the prosecutor, explaining that he was a scientist and psychologist, a war veteran, and that what Mahoney should really be investigating is an obviously well-funded and shadowy effort to send people with “records of insanity” to infiltrate Scientology in order to discredit it. Here, see for yourself…

L. Ron Hubbard, D.D. Ph.D.

1826 F. St. NW
Washington, D.C.
Sept. 6, 1955

County Attorney,
Phoenix, Arizona

My dear Sir;

You have expressed a desire to “get to the bottom of Scientology and Hubbard.” May I suggest that you write a letter to me, setting forth the various things you want to know.

May I also direct your attention to your public library where in “Who’s Who in the East” and “Who Knows and What”, the standard American reference of technical experts, you will find my background. You might also write the U.S. Navy in which I served as an officer throughout the war. The books will inform you that I am a writer, a scientist, and a psychologist and the Navy will inform you of an honorable record, an American record.

As for Scientology I invite your attention to the library or to whatever books you may have to hand.

Now in your turn I would like some information. I would like to know who complained to you about the various organizations and myself and exactly what was said to you to cause you to take the course and action which you did. If you do not care to give me this information, please give it to the F.B.I. when they request it. It would assist me considerably if you would be very specific as we are having for the moment a small amount of trouble running down the exact instigators of the lies and defamations which were spread in Phoenix. We are engaged at the moment in collecting enough funds to continue this matter as long as is necessary to discover why the only entirely American development in the field of the mind should be so attacked.

May I request that you dismiss the charges against Mr. Edd Clark and cooperate with us in following up this situation. It may interest you that in five years of Dianetics and Scientology in every quarter of the world there has never been a similar charge or arrest of any of thousands upon thousands of practitioners and that having been suffered and condoned for many years by any and all authorities and even healing interests and having for a very long time existed in Arizona that the practice of Scientology has become by this face acceptable.

May I also have your cooperation in discovering and naming the persons who sent individuals with pre-Scientology records of insanity into the area to harass us and in naming the persons who offered the bribes in return for evidence or complaints against Scientology and its organizations. The huge sums of money must have had an important source.

In that Mr. Edd Clark did not contravene any law of the State of Arizona, may we have your assistance in locating rather larger game, much more interesting to the Federal government than Mr. Clark.

Sincerely,

L. Ron Hubbard

Later that month, Hubbard explained to his followers who was behind the nefarious plot to send crazies to Scientology in order to discredit it. Of course, it was the evil psychs…

Nearly all the backlash in society against Dianetics and Scientology has a common source — the psychiatrist-​psychologist-​psychoanalyst clique … I could tell you about three actual murders. I could tell you about long strings of psychotics run in on the Foundation and the Association, sent in to us by psychiatrists who then, using LSD and pain-​drug-​hypnosis, spun them and told everyone Dianetics and Scientology drove people insane … The public utterly LOATHES psychiatry. You waste time if you try to defame psychiatry to the public … Psychiatry stands in the public mind for ineffectiveness, lies and inhuman brutality.

— from Professional Auditor’s Bulletin no. 62, “Psychiatrists”, 30 September 1955

That loathing for the psychiatric profession did not prevent Hubbard from claiming to be a psychologist himself when he wanted to impress the Phoenix county attorney. Interesting, isn’t it?

Clark’s trial was set for January 1956, but we haven’t been able to find a record of its result. The prosecutor, however, did have a noteworthy later chapter. William P. Mahoney Jr. was county attorney in Phoenix from 1953 to 1956 after he had been a Trial Judge Advocate in the Pacific presiding over war crimes trials following WWII. And then, in 1962, President John F. Kennedy appointed Mahoney to be the country’s ambassador to Ghana. Here they are in June of that year, discussing Mahoney’s new job…

 
William_Mahoney_JFK

 
Three years later, after Kennedy’s death and under the Johnson administration, unclassified documents show, Mahoney discussed with CIA director John A. McCone that Ghana’s president, Kwame Nkrumah, would likely soon be deposed in a coup. The following year, in 1966, Nkrumah, a pan-African activist who had led Ghana to independence from Britain, was in fact deposed, and the US was probably complicit in it. We don’t know if Mahoney could be personally blamed for that bit of international skullduggery, but on the positive side of his ledger he did go after and obtained convictions of Japanese war criminals who had executed 102 American prisoners of war at Wake Island.

And in 1955, he came up with the audacious idea of sending in undercover agents to expose Scientology practicing medicine without a license. The very idea!

The FDA files on Clark and Mahoney also include an early Scientology pamphlet from the Phoenix foundation that we found interesting for how it talks about its status as a church and relationship to Christianity…

The Church of Scientology and its ministers are closely interested in your good health.

Devotedly, the practitioners of this Church visit hundreds of people who are ill and hungry.

The ministers and practitioners of this Church go further than simple comfort and prayer. Their activities are dedicated to being effective.

Christ set three goals for Man: Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality.

The Church of Scientology believes deeply that these goals are worthwhile, that they should be accomplished.

By Divine and earthly authority, we of the Church can apply effective skills to the mind and spirit, and can bring them greater freedom, rest, and peace.

The brothers of this Church are not zealots or bigots. They do not demand that you believe. They are highly skilled and degreed experts in the alleviation of suffering. They are long-trained and practiced in the handling and relief of the ills of mind and spirit.

Our way of carrying out the goals of Christ is to bring about Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality in the individual man…

Scientology, in the hands of a practitioner, can accomplish for Man the goals which have been set. Our practitioners are skilled as well in Freudian Analysis, and in Dianetics…

The Church of Scientology does not, in any way, conflict with, practice, or discourage medical science. Our sole concern is with the hastening of recovery from accident or shock, the eradication of psychosomatic relapses, or the alleviation of conditions of ill health stemming from the mind and spirit.

Now that’s a fascinating document. Our thanks again to the indefatigable R.M. Seibert!

DOCUMENTS
Edd Clark investigation 1955

 
——————–

Ross & Carrie continue their exploration into Scientology

We enjoyed Ross & Carrie’s first episode, but we don’t know if we’ll have time to listen to Part 2 today. Can someone summarize what’s in it?

 

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on February 20, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
  • Jimmy3

    This makes a lot of sense, actually. You see, Jesus wasn’t Christian, he was Jewish. So many Christians ended up resenting and hating the Jews.

    Hubbard wasn’t a Scientologist, he was a psychologist. Scientologists ended up hating the psychs.

    • And now I am craving a pretzel dog.

      • Jimmy3

        Somewhere there is a pretzel dog craving Dodo.

    • Robert Eckert

      Jesus was Jewish??? That must have been awkward, what with his Mom being Catholic and all.

      • Kim O’Brien

        that was retroactive ~ we kind of ” un – jewished” her . She was jewish when she was alive …and since the jews do not have an afterlife …we stole her spirit , turned her into a virgin , made her white ( and able to speak Spanish ) and turned het into the Holy Catholic Womb .Cuz …ya know , white people

        • Missionary Kid

          I laugh every time I look at the portrait of Jesus’ head by Warner Sallman. He sure tried to make Jesus look un-Jewish.

        • I think the Mormons might have stole her with one of those retro-baptisms.

  • Rasha

    He had me at, “It may interest you that in five years of Dianetics and Scientology in every quarter of the world there has never been a similar charge or arrest of any of thousands upon thousands of practitioners and that having been suffered and condoned for many years by any and all authorities and even healing interests and having for a very long time existed in Arizona that the practice of Scientology has become by this face acceptable.”

    …so clear, now. Yes.

    • Orglodyte

      That’s 94 words a minute, with four fingers and no rewrites, you’re looking at there.

      • Rasha

        Yep! Guessed that. 😉

    • OOkpik

      RASHA! You were missed. <3

      • Rasha

        Gosh, thanks, OOkpik!! Had some stuff come up, so I was off on some ExtraBunkular Activities….

  • Mark Foster

    Just thinking out loud…
    Scientologists and Dianeticists say that ” Dianetics and Scientology” WORK. I read Dianetics. I gave and received Dianetic “sessions”. I saw others do the same. I read a slew of scientology books and “tech” and “admin” volumes.
    I never saw, read about, or heard of ANYONE having perfect recall,a permanent rise in IQ verified by a genuine
    IQ test,a permanent immunity to colds, a stable ability to ” communicate freely with anyone on any subject” (Grade 0 Release),just to name a few of the promised results of “Dianetic processing”. Regarding scientology and “OT phenomena”, again:NADA.
    I DID see euphoric people who unburdened themselves of some emotional baggage in a “session”, only to see that
    ” euphoria” wane …until the next session. I DID see numerous people express a ” certainty” about the utter uniqueness of this “science of the mind” (and its practices and policies) and a belief in it as THE ONLY path to true spiritual freedom, whilst ignoring a fact that has repeated itself since its inception: IT DOES NOT DELIVER THE RESULTS IT PROMISES.
    Why, in 60 years, have no scientologists produced evidence of the ” stable wins” promised, the ones “unique” to dianetics and scientology, like the end results of the “grades” or the “OT levels”? C’mon, at CAUSE OVER MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE, AND TIME? What the fuck, are we talking time travel here? Making shit appear and disappear?
    Inventing some bitchin’ new technology in the here and now based on “whole track recall” ? Reading another person’s
    thoughts? Manifesting world peace and renaissance in the arts and sciences by merely “intending” it to happen?
    Travelling to a distant universe via visualization? Re-directing storms, moving mountains, walking on water?
    I can totally dig someone’s passionate attachment to talking to someone he/she trusts in order to deal with the traumas, pains, setbacks, and disappointments of life. However, doing THAT in the context of a belief system/”technology” that was designed to confuse, manipulate, defraud, and enslave nullifies the value of
    the ” therapy”. Read Hubbard’s Affirmations. Read The Axioms. Read Intro To Scientology Ethics. This is not the stuff of freedom and compassion and spirituality…or science.
    It is the intersection of Hubris and Mendacity.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Just about the money.

    • Hubris and mendacity is what dianetics and scientology truly are.

    • Jimmy3

      My favorite is the “I have powers, I just can’t display them in public” excuse. It’s just so childish. Like “My dad did build a working Iron Man suit!!!” Well, why can’t we see it? “The army will arrest him if they saw he has one!!!”

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        My favorite is “I could quit smoking if I wanted to, since I am Clear”

    • Tracy Schmitz

      great post!…

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Damn it! I had tons of gains, and now that you’ve criticized and gotten all antagonistic I’ve lost all my gains.

      • DMSTCC

        Gotta love how fragile the gains are. Don’t worry, we got more, come this way…

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The SRD was designed with you in mind Sid. Running a few thousand laps around a pole will rehabilitate you as a being and restore your wins and gains — just ask the millions of OTVIII’s who have completed the SRD. Where once they were lost and purposeless OTVIII’s adrift in a sea of mediocrity and weight gain, they became CAUSE once again after completing the SRD.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Will I get the Jim Mather’s weather control ability?

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Not until a) all Model Ideal Orgs are 47x old St. Hill size, b) SRD GAT IV is released, and c) the new Ultra Mark X Electron Panther meter is released.

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              Whew! Well at least I don’t have to wait until the Mark XI Electron Panther meter is out.

    • Observer

    • Madison KinSmed

      Love this, Mark. Kinda stole a bit from you for a tweet:
      https://twitter.com/vailkin/status/701610319517347840

      • Mark Foster

        shazaaaaaaaam!

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    “Our thanks again to the indefatigable R.M. Seibert!”

    Absolutely, R. M. Seibert ought get the Hubbard/Scientology Researcher of the Decade award.

    • Madison KinSmed

      Chuck, I hope your help line isn’t ringing off the hook. I tweeted the number and Baby’s picture thing (see http://tonyortega.org/2016/02/22/how-the-indoctrination-of-growing-up-in-scientology-has-changed-over-generations/#comment-2529564163) to CoS and some public. I’m all paranoid now that CoS is going to start harassing you, etc. I can delete the tweets but they won’t get deleted from everywhere bc of the way Twitter works. I’m sure most of them just were ignored but…Let me know if you want me to delete or fall on my sword to CoS. Best,

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Only post 412-260-1170 if you must post it, the 866-XSEAORG line is no more.

        At this time, I get 2 calls per year, max, on the 412-260-1170, rather 2 calls so far this year is all, to 412-260-1170.

        • Madison KinSmed

          Rats! The graphic Baby has had the XSeaorg # . If I get ambitious and it’s ok with you I’ll retweet with corrected #. Probably ought to make sure UB and ESMB, etc have correct #. I’ve only ever seen the XSeaOrg #.

          Thanks for all you do, Chuck. I’m glad you’re out and your generosity and compassion to those still in is extraordinary!

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Overrated and unqualified was more like it. The Hubbard/Scientology unqualifiedness took some time for me to realize how unqualified and inadequate I was being.

        • Madison KinSmed

          Gah, Disqus! I thought I replied to this last night.

          I used the XSEAORG # because it was on the shop Baby posted. Now I feel terrible for any scientologists who thought they saw a way out and hey dialed a disconnected #. 😟

          Ok if I tweet the new #? Or would that expose you to Fair Gaming or otherwise?

          You are awesome, btw, for helping people get out.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            If I haven’t already said it, I’m unqualified and overrated, I just listen and explain and suggest, but people need outside world proper social agency staff help. People ought go to pros, that is parents or families seeking to get their family out of Scientology, I refer them to exit strategists like Rick Ross and Steven Hassan are professionals.

            Parents wishing to bone up on Scientology have great books by ex members to read up and inform themselves now. And Mike Rinder’s site and Jeff Hawkins’ site, to read up on things. Chris Shelton’s video channel, and there are the ex cult generic sites with excellent options i refer people to.

            The internet is full of info for worried families who’ve lost family to Scientology and wonder what they can do.

  • J. Swift

    Thanks to R.M. Seibert for retrieving these letters from the archives. Today’s letters clearly show Hubbard drawing his battle lines and tactics as he evolved the Church of Scientology into the deviant and sinister organization it became. Clearly, Hubbard had realized by the mid-1950’s that he could not defend the illegal, unconscionable, dangerous, deceptive, and other indefensible activities of his organization. Hence he wrote in that period:

    The DEFENSE of anything is UNTENABLE. The only way to defend anything is to ATTACK, and if you ever forget that, then you will lose every battle you are ever engaged in, whether it is in terms of personal
    conversation, public debate, or a court of law. NEVER BE INTERESTED IN CHARGES. DO, yourself, much MORE CHARGING, and you will WIN.

    In articulating this policy Hubbard created Scientology to be a cult, for this policy forbids any honest dialogue, apologetics, or reasoned argument with Culture and instead calls for Mafia tactics, fake PR, and the habit of lying about virtually everything Scientology is and does.

    Hubbard claimed that Scientology does not engage in blackmail because it does not seek money from its victims as do blackmailers. This is specious; Hubbard is merely quibbling with terminology. Hubbard candidly admitted that he and his organizations engage in the violence of psychological terrorism. Thus, Hubbard wrote this policy for the GO/OSA:

    We are slowly and carefully teaching the unholy a lesson. It is as follows: “We are not a law enforcement agency. BUT we will become interested in the crimes of people who seek to stop us. If you oppose Scientology we promptly look and will find and expose your crimes. If you leave us alone we will leave you alone”.

    This quote shows Hubbard’s aim to engage in “Mafia bargaining” with Culture: Get in Scientology’s way and we will destroy you. If you leave us alone we will leave you alone. This is the language and policy of a terrorist cult for it forecloses all possibly of dialogue and relations with the outside world. This is why we saw Sylvia Stanard fail at Chautauqua; Scientology cannot talk to religious people for the simple reason that it is not religious and does not know what religion is in any basic sense.

    The Church of Scientology was designed by its Founder to be paranoid and therefore insular, self-involved, and menacing to both its own members and the world itself. The paranoia of the Church of Scientology is self-generated, self-perpetuating, and ultimately can only be self-destructive to its members. That the Church does not see this underscores its cultic and institutional blindness. Given this blindness, the Church must therefore posit various external enemies involved in vast schemes and plotting against Scientology organizations. This paranoid leitmotif perpetuates further internal and external brutality; the Church itself became both the trap and the implant.

    Despite Hubbard’s efforts to achieve effective forms of Fair Game, most Fair Game is generally messy, medieval, and incompetent brutality that relies upon the bludgeoning people with a cudgel. People fight back against those who attempt to silence or oppress them and Scientology doesn’t get it. Culture long ago rejected Hubbard’s Mafia bargaining that Scientology would not harm those who left Scientology alone. Such criminal and gangster thinking gave the Church of Scientology the successor to Hubbard it deserved.

    • outraged

      As the stories continue by Tony, day by day, Hubbard created Scientology to be a cult becomes crystal clear, facts and stories lined up in a row like little duckings. He lied and cheated until a destructive self-immolating creature strode out of the wreckage and continued to raze families, land, hearts to the ground.

      Not one smile, certificate or raised hand convinces me that Scientology is not doomed.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        what always gets me and always will is that NONE of this information was known to ANYONE? not a single person who got involved in this cult (and remains) never knew any of this because NONE of it was anywhere? so thus they didn’t take the time to look into what they were getting into and who and what created it?.. that it took the internet as the first salvo of information? how did anyone find out information on anything before then? (sarcasm)…

        • Mockingbird

          Tracy you need to know that people don’t look into what they already trust. How many Christians study the syncretic nature of religions ? The influence parents and society play in the choice of religions ?

          How many pursue in depth analysis of similarities between stories in Christianity and earlier religions ? Or the influence men have had on Christianity through politics and other methods ? Most Christians NEVER look into ANY of these things. And Hubbard did his writing back in the fifties and sixties.

          How easy would examining sources he plagiarized like the OAHSPE and the occult writings of Crowley be if you never knew Hubbard stole and repackaged those cult texts ? Or the hundreds of methods he took from hypnotism and thought reform programs ?

          He used ideas that weren’t magic or even original, but are simply things most people never learn about. And inside the cult a variety of penalties and rewards exist to strongly encourage this. We simply don’t question deeply held beliefs most of the time. If you really want to know why the books Influence by Robert Cialdini and A Theory Of Cognitive Dissonance by Leon Festinger have a lot of helpful information.

          If you want to get information on how this occurs particularly in the cult environment I recommend Cults In Our Midst by Margaret Singer and Recovery From Cults.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            i agree mockingbird to a point of some of what you post.. without knowing the “percentages” but thinking it’s the vast majority, most people DO come into their religion because of their parents and family.. and stay in forever just because it’s what they know and are used to and no need to look into it further, who created it, it’s history, and the good and bad of it… HOWEVER,, i think personally the difference is when comparing all of this and LONG STANDING KNOWN MAJOR religions like judiasm, catholicism, and so on.. and scientology… THE major religions of the world there are no secrets per se.. how does one either go from a major religion or no religion (not knowing how religions are supposed to be?) into what was ALWAYS known and ALWAYS was a little tiny secretive “sect” of a religion and surely at the very very least they knew who founded it, a science fiction writer and when it was founded and not AUTOMATICALLY be “wary” and the need to “look into it”? sorry, i’ll never buy this…

            • Mockingbird

              Tracy if you are really asking questions I recommend reading books. If you are asking rhetorical questions for effect than that’s your right. I don’t think you will actually get satisfying answers in the comments section.

              Scientology isn’t a religion. Until that fact is up for examination you will just go round and round with these questions.

              The nature of cults is the issue, not Scientology’s claims of religious beliefs.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              i guess i’m just “talking outloud” and yes, rhetorical questions. yes, we and most know scientology isn’t a religion, contrary to those still in who all? insist it is a religion? i just wonder (here i go again! lol!) how people newbies or those in for decades see some “religious/church/faith” in scientology?..

            • Mockingbird

              The people in are isolated and use confirmation bias, denial, trauma bonds and other cultic methods.

              For folks out of Scientology they usually hear about Xenu and volcanoes and think it is no stranger than a burning bush or virgin birth. They focus on the cover story of Scientology and not the crimes and abuses.

            • Mockingbird

              By the way major religions do have secrets if you examine their entire history and development. Most Christians don’t hear about apocryphal texts and alterations to the bible and Christian practices and doctrine over centuries.

              I am not attacking Christianity or calling it a cult. I am just pointing out examples. Major religions have very human members who aren’t perfect or constantly in agreement. That doesn’t mean they are cults but like most large groups that exist for thousands of years they occasionally have secrets.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              the difference is that any major religions that has secrets it’s not the entire doctrine (and of course one doesn’t have to pay to know them or anything for that matter)… also I was not really referring to secrets of any beliefs in any religion for the most part in my previous post.. i was really trying to concentrate and make a point that those who got in who didn’t do their homework before they got in and they should of…

              i won’t EVEN get into those who didn’t do their homework AFTER the internet where information has been abundant for nearly what 25 years? on this cult..how in the world does ANYONE (unless you were born into it, live in a cave, are not educated, english is your second or 3rd language, you have no life experiences, never been involved in any religion/church/faith)does one NOW get into this cult is beyond fathomable to me! but anyway..

              let me just address those who “got in” before “the internet age of information”..

              1) your either coming from a established religion where you know how religions are meant to act, run, organized, belief system, whatever OR your coming from no religions background and either way you hear somehow about this “little known, i never head of it before perhaps even” religion (i.e. scientology)…

              you simply as a adult with some intelligence, common sense, education? life experience inherently know this scientology is NOT a huge famous long established religion like so many that EVERYONE knows exists…

              so you seemingly need to “do your homework” and “look into” it. even if CASUALLY…. you find information that WAS ALWAYS OUT THERE that the founder is l.ron hubbard, well known science fiction writer.. (the 1st red flag! science fiction writer as creator of a religion?)…you take another step in your “casual” homework and find out that TIME magazine did a scathing article in 1991 on this church as the cult of greed” (your 2nd red flag), you do another basic step in your homework and you find out that it’s only been around for a few decades? another step? you find out that the f.b.i. raided them in the 70’s, i could go on and on, but the point is this information WAS ALWAYS OUT THERE plain as day for anyone to know.. and yet some still continued.. when they found out that in 5 minutes they COULD NOT find out what the belief and faith in this religion is, (and never asked “how is this a religion/church/faith?”) and find out that courses and more courses and more money and more money is needed (another HUGE RED FLAG)…
              and without knowing ANYTHING about what this religion little known religion practices and believes in, are told you have to pay to learn about it, to move up, to earn it, with the information of the founder is a science fiction writer, the time magazine article, the f.b.i. raids, just these VERY VERY basic “information and homework” (all before the age of information, the internet age) casual open information that was always out there and you/they STILL proceeded forward? yes, this is a entire rhetorical post….

            • Mockingbird

              Tracy you are not being fair. Almost everyone who is recruited is brought in through a front group or other route. And the internet twenty five years ago was far different from today.

              Hubbard had lots of negative information that some folks saw in the fifties and sixties in the press and most rejected him. But lots of that was not easily available until very recently.

              A person who is Catholic usually doesn’t dig for negative articles about the Pope. If they did now they can find plenty – which are not true.

              There comes a point where you are not objective about someone and don’t investigate them objectively. It’s human nature.

              In Robert Cialdini’s book Influence and the book Age Of Propaganda these things are examined at length.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              guess will just have to agree to disagree… i’m totally on board for the vast majority with everything you say and post mockingbird… in response to your latest reply. i guess the simple fact that the catholic church is HUGE and has been a global religion for centuries, it’s NOT the same thus in comparing it to a little known tiny sect that was and is scientology.. hence it would seem logical that less information is known but also that one should/should have dug for information from ALL possible sources BEFORE they took their first step in.. and the information that i posted previously WAS available and out there.. (i’m referring to the information BEFORE the internet)….that is the point i’m trying to make… also, like i said among other early “red flags” is when you can’t even walk into ANY scientology building and be told just what and how they are a religion/church/faith in 5 minutes and for free…

  • Xenu is my Homeboy

    It’s almost like The Proprietor has OT powers. JAW tweeted that there was no evidence that Hubbard’s Sci-Fi fed into scientology. So guess what someone tweeted in reply… (refresh)

    https://twitter.com/str8upandvert/status/701513189054353409

  • Newiga

    Cheese and crackers plate?? Never heard this one before. xD I’d be really upset if that’s all I got after paying for the course and having to spend hours and hours in a course room…

  • Techie

    Technical note on Ross and Carrie’s excellent adventure at the Shrine, from a Techie who used to be there. So hilarious when they get to the part about accidentally being in the staff meeting and everyone shouts “Yes” in unison. Then they describe the drill for having bodies in the shot no matter where the camera needs to be. In the 90s that was not necessary, the Shrine could be filled by loading the balcony with staff (Sea Org, Missions, Orgs from all over California) and having public mostly fill the lower level. The drill then was to wait until most of the public are seated, then fill in with staff if needed so the hall looks packed. Lo how the mighty hath fallen.There is a camera on a boom in the back row, when the big “audience reaction, standing ovation, Dave belted one out of the park” shot is needed the boom camera swoops over the excited audience, all on their feet (or the Knowledge Reports will fly). In the 90s we would set up overflow seating in the event hall, which would have women with crying babies and a few who just wanted to get out before the sales team hit. No more, they probably save money by just renting the auditorium and leaving the event hall empty. Funny story, they used to ship a busload or two of Int Base staff down for the events at the Shrine. Mainly to fill seats. You were supposed to rent a tux, and it was one of those strong hints that were relayed in a way that made it obvious that “top management” was the one demanding it. Of course nobody at Gold had money to rent a tux for a bus trip to the Shrine, but a few did. Then after the event, everybody had to hang around until all the equipment from the event was wrapped up. In those days the event was live via satellite uplinked directly from big dishes behind the Shrine, so there was quite a bit of equipment to wrap up. And the Shrine is right in downtown LA where we often heard guns being fired around midnight etc.on New Year’s Eve. So somebody had the brilliant idea of having the Gold crew help the video and sound crew wrap up after the event. As soon as the event was over, crowds of clueless Gold staff would descend on the stage in tuxes and evening gowns to “help” the union stage crew and hired AV crew wrap cables. This was perceived as a direct attack on the jobs of the union guys. The Gold staff had no idea which cables were from the video truck and which belonged to the Shrine etc. A huge mess, but very funny to behold the two or three years it was done.

  • Dave Reams

    Le Ron gave himself 2 titles in his letter to the Arizona prosecutor: PhD and “D.D.” which I assume he meant as a Doctorate of Divinity – a Christian degree

    • Mockingbird

      He should have gotten a masters in BS.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I’ve been asked to share this flier here by a friend. It concerns the March verdict in Brussels. F5

    • Rasha

      ^^^^^^^

    • FredEX2

      Love it! Esp. that attending the ‘fruit, wine & Belgium chocolate’ race is mandatory afterwards. 😊

  • Techie

    Chills running down my spine as I read Hubbard’s strange letter.

    May I also have your cooperation in discovering and naming the persons who sent individuals with pre-Scientology records of insanity into the area to harass us and in naming the persons who offered the bribes in return for evidence or complaints against Scientology and its organizations. The huge sums of money must have had an important source.

    He really believed someone was sending in plants with records of insanity to hurt his business. This letter is not a trumped-up attempt to rally his followers, they probably knew nothing of it. So much for those who think he didn’t drink his own kool-aid. Think about it – “pre-Scientology records of insanity”. This time period is when the processes were being developed that are now known as the “Survival Rundown”. Then as now it was driving people into insanity. At which point they “harass” Hubbard by complaining. He knew he had a problem with bad results from his crazy ideas. But he blamed it on others and carried on. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. This is not a canny con man shaking down his clueless followers for every penny with the intention to cut and run. This is a committed narcissistic sociopath in full cry.

  • another one of these…. (new bollocks likely later on tonight)

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Flashback Sunday: 2013 — Mr. David Miscavige Opens Portland Ideal Org — 25,000,000 Attend!

    Self-medicated on coffee and heroin, the hundreds of millions of desperate wogs in the Great Northwest have lived in agony for endless eons while they awaited the promise that COB RTC David Miscavige would open the Portland Ideal Org. Their day of liberation finally came as COB flew into town on his Cessna Mustang and pulled the curtain up on the magnificent new Portland Ideal Org. Speaking from a forest-themed dais, Mr. Miscavige promised the gritty, drug-addicted denizens of Portland that help had arrived.

    http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/portland-21_zpsqy0lvt8s.png

    A crowd estimated at more than 25,000,000 Scientology parishioners cheered COB as he spoke. The assembled Scientologists broke into three hours of wildly uncontrollable applause that appeared to border on a mass seizure when Mr. Miscavige reported that Scientology had destroyed Psychiatry in
    Colombia!

    http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/crowds-1_zps1gjxjhgt.png

    In honor of Mr. Miscavige’s generous gift of the Portland Ideal Org, we in RTC are asking all persons to make a $500,000 love gift to COB via
    the IAS.

    You will receive a deluxe RTC burlwood pen in exchange for your love gift to COB.

    • Wow.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Shorpy: When will you say “yes” to Scientology and “no” to being an SP? In just a few short hours of drugs and brainwashing happy processing, you can be one of us.

        http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/crowds-1_zps1gjxjhgt.png

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Show me the dotted line!

        • I believe I’ve agreed with everything you’ve ever said.
          Go back and check.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Due to the high turnover here in RTC your agreement was overlooked and we apologize.
            Ken Delusion has been away on a special assignment and so Davis Jackinov, the new guy, has been trying to fill in and this 1.1 meat body just doesn’t seem to know much of anything.

            • I hate people like me.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              You and COB share that trait.

            • I won’t tell him you said so.

        • Snippy_X

          Looks shooped.

    • Newiga

      Portland Ideal Org FTW because it has Gwen The Prune Lady. Please give her some prune juice. *pssst, I hope she blows*

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMPeX2blT9E

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        If only Gwen The Prune Lady knew how big a following she has out here 🙂

        • Newiga

          I know, right!! Gwen, please visit the Bunker. I’ll bake you a cake (no prunes).

        • Newiga

          I love how she almost cracks up when WBM says “Prunes are good!”. xD

      • Supper Powers

        She is so stinking cute. I hope she gets the hell out of there, travels the world and has a wild romance with someone who knocks her off her feet.

        • Royce Harlow

          I got the feeling she had a little crush on Prunes Bunker.

      • salin

        I forgot how disturbed she gets by the notion that the building’s title get’s turned over to CSI. She pauses before she pushes back.

        Who does old the Title for the Portland Ideal Org?

      • nomorescio

        Prune lady is correct. Mark Bunker is harassing her. She should know because Scientology is the expert in harassment — they do it best because they invented it.

        • mon elle

          Mark was not harassing her. He was simply videoing a B roll outside their Idle Org.

          Unless you mean he was harassing her by breathing? They do tend to get feisty about that. 😉

      • Royce Harlow

        She is engaging in the conversation and although she’s obtuse, she is debating and listening with unusual interest, for a scientologist. I see a glimmer of hope that she’ll wake up and leave the cult.

      • salin

        I enjoy how she looks stern, and suddenly he says something and her frown freezes, and then turns into a smile/chuckle.

        I, too, hope she finds her way out.

      • mon elle

        I’m ashamed to admit to how much time I’ve wasted watching this video but I just love Gwen.

        Someday, if things align, I’ll go visit Portland and visit.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          I always wonder how much trouble she got into for this video.

        • Newiga

          Me too! I’ve watched the video countless of times. 😀

          I’d love to take Gwen out for a coffee and J&D.

    • jazzlover

      Heroin always better than Kool-Aid, amirite? 😉

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Did you get into the Scotch and the Photoshop again Sir?

      I like the Ecclesiastical Cardboard Box. Is it being passed around for donations? Gold fillings? Organs?

    • salin

      That day, the porch to infinity flew off the earth like Dorothy’s home in Kansas. The waves of thunderous applause wreaked havoc of Richter Scale magnitude as the earth-shaking responses were recorded as Seismic Activity. The explosive beginning of universal expansion was exponentially kicked off, and is worthy of such an appropriate love gift to COB.

      Regges are standing by, ready to help you apply for fourth or fifth mortgages and other lines of credit.

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    O/T piece of advice: When your thrice divorced friend invites you over because his new 22 year old girlfriend is “cooking her first roast” make an excuse (any excuse) and stay home. You’ll thank me later. 👍

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Oh, no! Was it dreadful?

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Honey, I’d rather be trapped in an Andes plane crash if you know what I mean.

        • Robert Eckert

          Better food?

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Slightly more edible I’d guess.

          • Oh he went there.

            • mon elle

              And back for seconds.

            • As long as there’s no clowns.

            • Robert Eckert

              they taste funny

            • That, but for your comment, would have gone without saying.

            • mon elle

              Especially the humerus …

            • mon elle

              If Sondheim was on board we’d have to send in the clowns …

            • Or clones.

            • mon elle

              That’s a planeful of Raelians …

            • Missionary Kid

              Bad joke: What has red hair, big feet, and lives in a test tube?

              Bozo the clone.

            • mon elle

              Worse punchline: LRH

            • Missionary Kid

              Why do elephants swim on their back?
              They don’t want to get their tennis shoes wet.

              Why do they bury Jews on hillsides?
              Because they’re dead.

            • Missionary Kid

              He really was a Bozo.

          • As long as there’s no clowns

          • jazzlover

            An undercooked right arm better than an overcooked roast any day 😉

        • I’d rather be the only woman on a Greek freighter, I used to say.

        • mon elle

          I’m not buying that as a bad dining experience.

          If it was that bad you’d rather be at the Captain’s table aboard the Freewinds.

          Yes … I’m implying cannabilsm is a step up from dinner with David Miscavige.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          He He!

    • Supper Powers

      Oh no!!! That’s so hilarious.

    • mon elle

      Wise advice is always topical …

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZKg-GYsvtg

    • And to be fair, never sample anyone’s first roast.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I was willing to give it a shot. I figured, hell..her Momma might have taught her to cook and I’m not going to be rude at someone else’s dinner table but mid-meal my husband leaned over and whispered in my ear “Is it just me or would my shoe be easier to chew?” so your advice is good. 🙂

        • Hindsight is 20/20.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Not a total loss. The wine was great and I now know that a Crock-Pot will be their gift if they get married. 😀

      • gtsix

        That is quite the… metaphor.

    • Newiga

      I have an ace up my sleeve for these situations. “I’m a vegetarian.” 😉 I actually am. Comes pretty handy in situations like this.

    • Missionary Kid

      Nothing improves one’s cooking like having to eat what you cook. When I try something new, I try to cook it just for myself. I also try to read up on similar recipes. I was lucky that my mom had me cooking or helping her to cook when I was little. She said that if you could read, you could cook.

      What do you think was wrong? Was it overcooked?

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I think she tried to cook it too fast on high heat (if that makes any sense) with a roast you have to let it simmer and get tender, that didn’t happen. As I said though, she’s 22, she’ll figure it out eventually. 🙂

        • Missionary Kid

          There’s a reason that cooking times and temperatures are listed in recipes. RTFD. Read The Fucking Directions.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            LOL 😀

        • sashiebgood

          there’s a metaphor in there somewhere about the impatience of youth…

      • Ben Franklin

        So true.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      “because his new 22 year old girlfriend is “cooking her first roast””

      …and that’s why they have drive-thru daiquiri shops in Louisiana.

  • Deeana

    Possibly my favorite line rom the police report about the “arrested man” in today’s article, Mr. Edd Clark:

    “The arrested man said he received a bachelor of science degree after studying five months at the Hubbard Association of Scientologists, International, at Puget Sound near Seattle, according to the police.”

    Sounds like in addition to practicing medicine without a license, LRH was running a degree mill early on. What a truly reprehensible creature he was.

    • It was probably a degree in Scientology.

      • EmmaDaoust

        And then the cops gave him the third degree.

        • Rasha

          He never had a second degree?

    • JaxNGold

      I can’t decide which is more laughable — that he “received a bachelor of science degree” within 5 months or that he thought the Hubbard Association of $cientologists delivered any scientific knowledge whatsoever.

      Incredible.

  • Hello, Bunker people.
    This is your Senator and Professor.
    What questions do you have today?

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Senator, why do people falsely attack Scientology?

      • Missionary Kid

        Because they’re $cientologists, writing in $cientology publications, using straw men.

      • They are confused about scientological legislation, which states clearly – scientology not to be attacked.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        They aren’t really attacking Scientology. They are attacking unseen enemies from millions of years ago. Either that or they feel Scientology is an evil organization. I can’t remember which.

        • Thank you, Senator Jones.

          • Sid (Phil Jones)

            I am but one thousandth of a thousand points of light. I live to serve.

            • Can I borrow your speech writer.

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              You can borrow your own at the Dan Sherman National Speech Writer Lending Library and Haberdashery.

    • Newiga

      How many BTs does it take to change a light bulb?

      *hangs head in shame* I’ll show myself out.

      • Missionary Kid

        It depends on how long they’ve been audited.

      • Several clusters of divisional departments.

        • Newiga

          If Ideal Orgs can afford new light bulbs that is

          • This is not a question, but yes.

            • Newiga

              OK… Another one then. Why can’t SO members make postulates about toilet paper stick?

            • Did you know in Japan toilets are paperless? Go green.

            • FredEX2

              I don’t even want to touch that!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      What have you done with Dodo? If you have him locked up and aren’t providing him with beer and metal music I’m reporting you to the UN. 😛

      • The answer is classified. Your question has been deleted by Mods. Please, try again.

    • Ben Franklin

      Where is the beef?

    • Observer

      Why do OT superpowers extend only to things that will inevitably happen? Traffic lights always change, parking spaces always open up, clouds always move.

      • Very good question. Why do you ask so many questions? Have a nice day.

      • mon elle

        You have obviously never gone shopping at Christmas.

      • JaxNGold

        Convenient, isn’t it? Maybe now we’ll get to hear a fantasy story about how some $cientologist used their non-existent OT superpowers to make their car fly because they didn’t want to sit in traffic..:or something.

    • gtsix

      If Hubbard never had a 2nd wife, how did he have a 3rd?

      • Mr. Hubbard was under a constant attack by Russian spies with impressive tits.

        • gtsix

          Russians again!
          I’m on it.
          Borscht.

    • mon elle

      What is 22 divided by 7?

      • Pizza tip.

        • mon elle

          Remember …

      • Missionary Kid

        What is the square root of 67? Ate something.

    • mon elle

      Who is the biggest diva in space opera?

    • beauty for ashes

      My car has sustained life threatening rust injuries, and needs to be donated to a charity that will pick it up. Since I am in Florida, there seems to be a number of charities I’ve never heard of, and have dubious advertising. Any ideas?
      PS, Do you think its weird to have a funeral for my car?

      • mon elle

        http://www.kars4kids.org

        All kids no klams

        • beauty for ashes

          Thank you, saving link 🙂

      • Place your Basics and Emeter inside your beloved car and gently push it into the ocean.
        #beautifulfuneral

        • beauty for ashes

          It will be bike week very soon! I might be able to get away with that!

  • Snake Plissken

    I’m listening to the Ross & Carrie episode and just got to the part where she and her spouse were invited to an event, they mistook them for Sea Org members, and sent her to a room where the Sea Org were being briefed as to how they were to run back and forth between empty chairs in the audience as the camera panned across the room to make the video look like the event was well attended … hilarious, the most fake organization on the planet, I can’t believe these Sea Org member can’t put two and two together and realize not only is Scientology fake but they are instrumental in making it as fake as it is.

    • ze moo

      So clam events are a Chinese Fire Drill!

    • Baby

      Snake that was my favorite part too..I could see it so vividly in my head and she was hilarious in her
      reenactment.

    • Irit8ted

      Sounds like somebody is going to the RPF for that cock up.
      Sad to say. But probably true nonetheless.

  • PickAnotherID

    It occurs to me that an SP living anywhere near the LA “Psychitry: Industry of Death” museum might want to amble by, along with a few friends of course, with a sign reading:

    “L. Ron Hubbard was a psych, he said so himself” on one side, and a blown up copy of his letter on the other with the “The books will inform you that I am a writer, a scientist, and a psychologist and the Navy will inform you of an honorable record, an American record.” line highlighted.

    And you might ask, “If L. Ron was a psych, by his own admission, why do you follow his teachings?”

    Just a thought.

    • sizzle8

      There’s a tape lecture where he says that he was a whole track shrink too.
      I don’t remember the title of the tape.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Shrink-Wrapped, Vol. 1

        • mon elle

          ..

  • beauty for ashes

    Hey, this Mathison dude had way better auditing chairs! Cans on feet is kinda gross though. What happened to this guy? F5

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      “The Great Bunion Epidemic of 1957” took a devastating toll on his business and Dr. Neely’s was soon forced to file for bankruptcy…

      • beauty for ashes

        **tee hee hee!!!**

    • Ella Raitch

      I see that chair and replay the Johnny Depp scene from Nightmare on Elm Street

      • beauty for ashes

        I am so sorry, because, I’m to scared to even ask what happened.

        • Ella Raitch

          Classic slasher moment – lots of tomato sauce

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Today in “WTF did LRH say?”

    (refresh)

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BAURk8Ln_yI/

    • jazzlover
    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      The reason life is life and people are disconnected and
      we don’t care about the grass and trees, and Jim Mathers makes the rain
      fall, and everything else, is because it helps us.”
      – Wot I Whaz Reely Thinkin

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      This makes Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey seem like… deep thoughts!

    • EmmaDaoust

      Sounding like we need a Hubbard Quote Generator, like Deepak Chopra’s “for entertainment purposes only”

      http://www.wisdomofchopra.com

      • Ella Raitch

        “Emotional intelligence differentiates into incredible chaos”

        “Death meditates on unbridled excellence”

        Profound!

        • EmmaDaoust

          It’s like, you put big words in a jar, and then you pull out a few of them, and you have a brilliant concept. Like. Sort of. Golly.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I listened to this earlier today. It’s a fun one. The woman doing the interview basically just opened the gate and let Ebner run, and he rarely disappoints. I really hope to see him back on Media Mayhem soon.

  • SarahDB

    I really enjoy Oh No Ross and Carrie and would recommend their two OTO podcasts as well from several years ago. One of my favorite parts is Carrie stumbling into a staff meeting before the New Years event and hearing that staff members will be moving seats during the event to make sure when the camera pans they see full seats.

    • seriouslyWTF

      Yes. That was definitely goodness. And yay, banjos!

      • SarahDB

        Oh yes!! Yay banjos! Too funny!!

  • Hey Krustie, how about you burned all your Bridges when you refused to go on Frasier because of you clam anti-psyche beliefs? …. or also that you weren’t even invited?

    pic

    • mon elle

      Translations: Wish I could have been there for the Jimmy Burrows special but …

      1). I wasn’t invited
      2). I was in session with this revolutionary way of using e-meter cables
      3). I spent the airfare to do a BT cleanse
      4). I was working on a whole track issue
      5). My lemurs needed their mommy

    • Frodis73

      Yeah, I bet she wasn’t even invited.

  • Observer

    Ohhhhh, remember the Camelot Castle Hotel review I posted where the reviewer said the desk person wouldn’t give their credit card info back? Well, Mappin has followed up with a response, and it’s exactly what you would imagine. I’m reposting the original review followed by the response (Disqus willing).

    • mon elle

      I do and I wish he lived in the US to bring this before the honorable Judge Judy.

      (Yes … I’m addicted to the young lady with the lace collar work.)

    • salin

      I find Mappin/Camelot Castle/Stourton watching to be amusing in the car/train wreck rubberneckingn sort of way.

      The post/complaint is so consistent with so many posts on different internet rating/hotel sites that it is completely believable. The turn Mappin attempt to deflect through defaming is so predictable.

      I also appreciate the great irony of the descriptions of his hotel (neglected, with portapotties) as bathrooms in many rooms), and his blathering twitter (and now CCTV) obsequious postings about a hotelier celebrity candidate president for a foreign country, who (the candidate) would ridicule and degrade the state of Camelot Castle Hotel if he were to visit – as it stands in deep contrast to his (Trump’s) very upscale hotels/resorts.

      • I wonder if it’s just the front desk that has surveillance?

        • salin

          Creepy thought. Rational thought would suggest no, as then the heavy scam tactics around the Stourton paintings would be exposed. But this isn’t a rational mind set – so who knows how much surveillance is peppered around the hotel.

          • Hmm… They can’t even get their “renovations” done, so anything fancy would be beyond them, I think.

      • EmmaDaoust

        It’s comforting to know that the hospitality is consistent when traveling around the globe. Lying $cientoligists lie.

        • salin

          Agreed.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’d like to see the police report. I’ll bet it says something different, ya think?

    • Frodis73

      I so hope karma, or something, bites this asshole, hard. I am hoping he’s involved in some shady business transactions or something and he can go to jail.

      • aquaclara

        The townspeople must be totally fed up with the scumminess and scaminess of it all. It doesn’t exactly give a good name to their poor town, which might actually be quite lovely if it weren’t for the Camelot Castle.

        So how are they making money? Hope you’re right.

        • Frodis73

          I also wonder how the heck they make anything. They obviously are not putting anything back in to the hotel itself from the reviews we read. They don’t seem like they do a lot of business either. I so wish we could make a Bunker field trip to that place.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    PHOTO CAPTION – “That moment when you think you got a parking ticket but instead find this” #scientology #dontouchmycar #atleastitwasntaticket

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BCDLE0QCQEu/

    • mon elle

      Cover: A 50,000 year search to discover the fundamentals of thought …

      Inside:

    • Hamtaro

      “that moment when you wish you got a parking ticket but instead got this”

  • MaxSpaceman

    In 1955, on or about September 06, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard was a psychologist et al, in facing down his accusers.

    Three weeks later, psychologists have become enemy # 1.

    L Ron Hubbard, selling Snake-Oil since 1950.

    • salin

      Isn’t that interesting. What an interesting profile of a complex psychological conflict ala Long Con Ron:

      I *am* a psychologist.

      3 weeks later – *Psychologists* (which just 3 weeks ago I claimed to be) *are* our (Scientology) biggest enemy.

      What a playground that set of mental contradictions would have provided for a real psychologist to plumb had s/he worked with Long Con Ron in this period.

      • Robert Eckert

        Isn’t that interesting, and so on, and so forth.

  • salin

    Appreciate Tony’s essay and RM Seibert’s work sifting through mountains of pages to find gems? Remember to click ‘Recommend’ (just under the comments count). It makes the heart beat (by the recommend bar.)

    To share my appreciation, I share my love of sky-watching (that I have to do virtually for aurora’s). It has been a quiet day – just one gentle aurora photo from Sweden posted to Spaceweather.com . But I also include a link to the spaceweather site (from Nasa) describing the ‘snow moon’ which will occur tomorrow, and dynamics that suggest some more active auroras in the coming days.

    Gentle aurora emanations in Kangos, Sweden
    http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=122986&PHPSESSID=pbcfgonjigrcvs8lthrvdbmts3

    Interesting sky watching insights from NASA – including explanation of the ‘snow moon’ tag (occurs on Feb 22) and what is unique on Feb. 23 : http://spaceweather.com/

    Click Today’s recommend to show appreciation for today’s post, and the comments discussion.

  • Acherontia

    It might just be because I’m exhausted but I thought this was funny.

    • Missionary Kid

      BAM! JAW walked into that one.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      It is.

  • Baby

    OMG Hubbard Just STFU

    Bunker Babe Be Like ( f5)

    • outraged

      yeah, ditto. STFU Hubbtard.
      this is for Baby, the only star here.
      https://youtu.be/DDXIaEXWo50

      • Baby

        Hahahha OMG.. funny Outraged..

        The Bunker Babe is the Star.. She’s the Blah, Blah, Blah girl.. WITH HER BOOBS HANGIN OUT..

        Me? Shit I just PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

  • Supper Powers

    This was probably talked about earlier, but for us slackers, an article on Kate Bornstein.
    http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/feb/21/kate-bornstein-interview-caitlyn-jenner-i-am-cait

    • MaxSpaceman

      Kate recommends Oat Tea Eight, IIRC, for delusional ego deflation, from cosmic fantasy to the occluded present, then- blow!

    • Frodis73

      We can never have too much Kate. Wouldn’t that be amazing if they did offer her her very own reality show? I’d watch that one. She is a breath of fresh air and a force of good in this world.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Yes! Love her. That is one reality show I would totally be on board with.

  • Mockingbird

    Good day Bunkeroos.

    I certainly appreciate the research of the indefatigable R.M. Seibert and find many of these documents to be invaluable for proving Ron Hubbard set out to use hypnosis, rhetoric, thought reform, psychology, earlier cultic practices and other methods to create his own evil cult. I am quite strongly convinced he plotted and schemed, planned and dreamed for decades before Dianetics was ever written.

    I believe by his teens he had looked into cults and was fascinated with the idea of enslaving men and seducing women. He dreamed of being loved like a god and obeyed without question or doubt.

    Books on cults from academics with the finest quality agree on cult leaders in general, but Scientologists call that generalities so it presents a challenge. Fortunately the details on Hubbard are damning. Entirely.

    And researchers keep finding more evidence against Hubbard. I have noticed that independent Scientologists don’t comment around here very much anymore. I think they avoid the Underground Bunker like a plague.

    They know the evidence against Hubbard and Scientology is mounting and from different angles and sources. Think of ALL the people who have spoken out against Scientology, all the efforts by Jon Atack, Jeffrey Augustine, Karen de la Carriere, Chris Shelton and of course Tony Ortega.

    The cumulative effect is way too much to justify. Do the remaining few Scientologists believe Hubbard was good ? Honest ? A genius ?

    Do they look at EVERYTHING at the Bunker and just think Scientology still produces benefits and miracles ? I think many are slowly convinced more and more of Scientology is a harmful fraud and eventually see everything Hubbard said as a lie.

    You either deny everything you see here and consider it all lies or let in a little, then a little more and eventually reach a point where the whole web of lies collapses.

    • bella

      I think the indies view this site as an anti or hate site, which i think says a lot more about them than the bunker. It,s difficult to believe in LRH as a force for good after you,ve read his own words, especially the disconnect between his public and private writing.
      I,m not even going to touch the contradictions and nonsense in his scn writing.

      • Mockingbird

        I certainly don’t see it as hate.. Tony Ortega reports facts, and lots of them.

        The contradictions are very important. If a Scientologist can perceive them they can throw off Hubbard’s hypnotic authority. Contradictions in cult doctrine actually help to enslave cult members, the more the “better” . This is true for all mass movements. The confused members are open to suggestions.

        If one recognizes and can use judgment regarding contradictions the cult indoctrination has not been successful.

  • Mockingbird

    In addressing the letter revealed today I wrote a post on Hubbard’s relationship with psychology.

    Ron Hubbard On Psychology.
    http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2016/02/ron-hubbard-on-psychology.html

  • Off topic: I ponder on the origins of Universe. Your thoughts?

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      There is an immortal being named Allan Stewart Konigsberg. Just 5 minutes ago he created the universe and made us all believe it was here weeks ago.

      • Heh. I wonder if some day it won’t be a mystery anymore. I want to know.

        • I mean, a few centuries ago people knew nothing about galaxies, black holes and all.

          • daytoncapri

            My late aunt did not resent growing old, but she did resent the prospect of death, as she did not want to miss progress, and the news on breakthrough discoveries advances on just about any topic.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Why does there have to be an origin? It might have always been here.

          “In the beginning,,,,,”

          “No, I mean 2 minutes before that.”

          “Okay, well, 2 minutes before the beginning was,,,”

          “Wait, how about a week before that?”

      • Sounds akin to Last Thursdayism.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          I hadn’t heard of that one. I’ll have to look it up. I don’t know if anyone got the Woody Allen thing in my comment. Ah well.

          • last-thursday.org
            Kind of ironic actually, since Scientologists exist from Thursday to Thursday.

            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              Duh. That one went totally over my head.

            • It went over mine too until my ride to work. That inspired my album cover upthread.

    • mon elle

      In the beginning the beginning began.

      It was largely considered a good thing.

      Until it wasn’t.

      The most vocal complaints involved the introduction of time.

      Before time was introduced it was possible to get a decent table for dinner at the most fashionable of restaurants.

      After time was introduced it became necessary to make reservations months in advance.

      Nobody likes making reservations.

      The end.

      Or not.

      • Profound. Time is a weak part of equation indeed.
        Perhaps there are concepts we are not aware of yet.

    • Observer

      • Great shoop. What do you think.

        • Observer

          I am reasonably certain that the origin of the universe did not involve cherubs, chariots, or snapping sounds.

          • Indeed. What was involved.

            • Frodis73

              Everything else.

          • INCIDENT 4
            LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
            CHEVROLETS COME OUT
            BURN RUBBER
            FISHTAIL RIGHT
            DO U-TURN
            STALL
            FLAT TIRE (No motion)
            BLOWS HORN
            BLOWS MISCAVIGE
            CRASH

    • It does not have to be scary subject.

    • Frodis73

      No clue, but I have always loved this from Douglas Adams:

      The story so far:
      In the beginning the Universe was created.
      This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”


      Douglas Adams,

      The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

    • seriouslyWTF

      Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
      Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait…
      The Earth began to cool,
      The autotrophs began to drool,
      Neanderthals developed tools,
      We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
      Math, science, history, unraveling the mystery,
      That all started with the big bang (Bang)!

      • jazzlover
        • EmmaDaoust

          They sing in Canadian and American.

          • jazzlover

            “Oy, Canada, I love to play hock-ey……….”

            • EmmaDaoust

              Stereotyper.

            • jazzlover

              LOL

          • scottmercer

            I love Canadia.

            • EmmaDaoust

              Is Rick Mercer your cousin?

      • Doc M

        What happened before the Big Bang??

        • jazzlover

          The big schtup?

        • Before is irrelevant since timespace didn’t emerge until the singularity expanded.

          • Doc M

            Not so much any more, physicists are starting to believe that there are a number of “Big Bang’s” happening all the time and each creates a different universe, possibly with possibly different laws of physics. We are just one universe existing with infinite others.

            • Yeah, but this is an Ideal Universe.

            • Doc M

              LOL and great point!!!

    • daytoncapri

      Sounds like a campfire question to pose as you gaze at the stars in the summer sky. An engineer friend once said that all of life is sinusoidal. Works for me. So maybe everything is, with no beginning and no end. Just my $.02 .

    • Robert Eckert

      Before the beginning, there was a turtle…
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ3cCbjVsRM

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        You do realize that Phil Proctor (pictured holding the dummy) is a clam don’t you? 🙂

        • Robert Eckert

          So I heard.

    • Baby

      HOKEY POKEY.. THAT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT..

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        🙂 Ja-das hokey pokey…
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dwaxWoJPUC0

        • Baby

          OMG.. monkey that is hilarious.. See that is all that it is about..

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Hey Baby. Your out and about late.
        Did you get your squeaky pest problem sorted from the other day?

        • Baby

          Yep.. and chills.. can’t even talk about it pookey.. smooches..but thanks.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      I ponder upon the origins of stupid arsehole people. (not you)
      And why there seems to be more of them each damn day.

  • Chris Thompson

    Awesome post piercing clearly into the mind of Hubbard.

  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    Just popping in give yet another kudos to RM Seibert and TO for continuing to shine a light on Hubtard’s early years and the origins of scientology. These dox are great supplements to the current historical record, connecting dots and filling gaps so we get the more complete picture. It’s really fascinating.

    Also, I’m digging the Ross and Carrie experience more than I thought I would. I was skeptical at first that this would be anything more than the usual “we took a personality test, isn’t scientology wacky” stuff. But they’re really trying to understand it. I especially appreciated Ross’s reporting the details of the courses he took. It helps me better understand the mindset and the slow build towards indoctrination. And Carrie’s NYE gala story is hilarious and sad. I only had a chance to listen to half this ep, but I intend to go back for more.

    • Baby

      I know 5.. I want to scream at Ross..” Hey Ross don’t get too comfortable there Buddy..” xo

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I feel ya. He was almost a little too sympathetic at some points. I’m glad Carrie was there to remind him that it’s bullshit.

        Hope you’re doing well these days, Babes!

        • Baby

          I’m good 5.. How about you?

  • CobGatYour$$

    “shakes her head,”. I just don’t get the FZ’rs, or the Indies, or any idiot that thinks lrh is the bomb. You would have to be blind, deaf, retarded, cognitive impair, even comatose not to know what a fckd up person he was.

    • TexasBroad

      I do believe lrh was a f*cked up person añd there was no time in my life I believed he was the bomb, but many good, intelligent people did believe him and revere him at one time and your comment is harsh. I’m not sure if you’re just trying to be provocative or if you just don’t understand how well-meaning people (conscious and gifted with sight, hearing and mental stability) can be drawn in. If you stick around, you’ll meet quite a lot of good people who can explain better than I.

      • Kay

        I agree Texas Broad. Another example: Hitler had a tremendous life long problem with flatulence. (true, check it out online) The poor guy just farted all the time, everywhere, during meals, during meetings…durling rallies, it was a most disgusting thing. He kept seeing doctors about it to no avail. He also reportedly molested his 15 year old niece who was living with him at Berchtesgarten, who subsequently took his personal pistol out and shot herself in the head rather than endure this indignity one more time. Many in his inner circle knew of this, yet those same people continued to adore him and pledged to die for him. Many committed suicide in the Bunker in Berlin out of allegiance to him, even after he issued the command to bomb/burn Berlin to the ground, including the hospitals, the aged, children, and wounded soldiers because he said
        ” German citizens were not fit to live.”

        There have been charismatic “cult” or “unusual sub-culture” cults on this earth as long as man has been here, at least insomuch as the archaeologists have been able to ascertain. Many of these may have been leaders who may not have been very intelligent, attractive, wealthy, or even caring towards their devotees. One thing they all probably had in common: EGO. Why people follow aberrations like Charles Manson is one of those mysteries of life. Think of Warren Jeffs, certainly one of the ugliest men on earth, inside and outside…and as slimey as a dumpster rat, yet he still effectively leads a group of at least 10,000 adherents from inside a prison cell. Look how creepy the Heaven’s Gate guy looked, and how he talked all of his followers into castrating themselves. As long as human beings will be around, there will be “cults” or “unusual sub-cultures” that will crop up for a multitude of reasons, some explicable, some absolutely inexplicable, and many of the followers will be people who would have been considered prior to their involvement to be “normal” and “intelligent”. It’s a really really complicated phenomenon, and one that unfortunately we are seeing grow in increasingly violent sub-cultures conveniently connected tangentially, but most certainly, by design to make conversion to said group a “holy cause” thus an acceptable one based on a complete lie perpetuated by the perversion of an already existing religion whose doctrine specifically forbids murder. (I’m talking about ISIS and El Qaeda here) Why would affluent, educated, american and european kids go to the middle east to fight and die for ISIS? Or why would they carry out a plan here to kill their co-workers and friends leaving behind an orphaned child? Those acts unfortunately make LRH look like a Kindergartner by comparison, but the process of recruitment and brainwashing is all too familiar. Human behavior is very very complex, and those who are bright enough and/or cunning enough to be master manipulators can and will cause much misery in this world.
        That’s why one of my great hopes is that anyone who reads this blog who has been in Scientology or is still in, realizes that this is NOT their fault….they have been victimized and have been manipulated by an organization and people who have been trained sometimes for years as to exactly how to do this to them. I do not want one of these victims to feel guilt, ever…..that guilt lies on the shoulders of those truly responsible.

        • OOkpik

          You have such a beautiful spirit, Kay. If I may be so bold, ((hugs)).

  • Jack99

    Another PR article from the church: http://article.wn.com/view/2016/02/17/German_Scientology_Churches_Mark_Holocaust_Remembrance_Day_C/
    German Scientology Churches Mark Holocaust Rememberance Day

  • Dave Reams

    “He was a physically unattractive man,” she says. “He had a deathly fear of dentists, so his teeth were a mess and so was his breath”

    http://gu.com/p/4gq9c

    • Kay

      Ewwwww…no wonder his little sea org messengers RAN everywhere when he sent them to run messages around the Freewinds….they were trying to stay downwind from his halitosis.

  • Kay

    Well I’m late logging in tonight, but not so late that I did not find myself rolling on the floor laughing my head off at these documents…..really?

    First of all, I seem to remember in one of Tony’s recent posts that someone who had critiqued LRH’s writing said that he (I’m paraphrasing here) did not even show a modicum of expertise in word usage, syntax, grammar, etc. etc. etc. in other words, his writing was abysmal. This document is but yet another example of that, although it’s sort of painful in that he’s obviously trying to be serious here, not write some science fiction inanity.

    So here I shall do a short review of that last document: (apologies to anyone else who has already mocked this…can’t help myself:

    “The Church of Scientology and its ministers are closely interested in your good health.”

    Devotedly, the practitioners of this Church visit hundreds of people who are ill and hungry.

    The ministers and practitioners of this Church go further than simple comfort and prayer. Their activities are dedicated to being effective.

    Christ set three goals for Man: Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality.

    The Church of Scientology believes deeply that these goals are worthwhile, that they should be accomplished.

    By Divine and earthly authority, we of the Church can apply effective skills to the mind and spirit, and can bring them greater freedom, rest, and peace.

    The brothers of this Church are not zealots or bigots. They do not demand that you believe. They are highly skilled and degreed experts in the alleviation of suffering. They are long-trained and practiced in the handling and relief of the ills of mind and spirit.

    Our way of carrying out the goals of Christ is to bring about Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality in the individual man…

    Scientology, in the hands of a practitioner, can accomplish for Man the goals which have been set. Our practitioners are skilled as well in Freudian Analysis, and in Dianetics…

    The Church of Scientology does not, in any way, conflict with, practice, or discourage medical science. Our sole concern is with the hastening of recovery from accident or shock, the eradication of psychosomatic relapses, or the alleviation of conditions of ill health stemming from the mind and spirit.

    • Dave Reams

      “Christ !!! I set 3 goals for you, manna: Make money!, make money!, make money!”
      – Enron Hubbard

      • Kay

        Soooo true….so very very true. AND so sad.

  • scottmercer

    From the Ross and Carrie podcast, I enjoyed the bit about the Scientology banjo. Perhaps some corroborating information in this thread from 2012? http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=145907#3376404

  • Kay

    Well g’nite to all who are still here. I have been writing too much here the past hour because I am house- sitting by myself which I just hate doing but I couldn’t get out of it. I could just “rue the day” truly. I always get nervous because it’s always for the same friends in the same house and always when Mr. Kay is working night shift so I’m here in a remote area in a house by myself with creaks and moans and weird noises abounding, which I’m sure are completely normal if it’s your own house but sound like an army of home invaders to me…LOL. The wind is really whipping up….gusts up to 50 MPH according to the internet. I just saw the big garbage cans go flying by spewing garbage everywhere….oh well. Have a good night everyone !!

    • Frodis73

      We had that wind the other night…it just makes night time 47x creepier. It bothers me too. Hopefully you can sleep.

      • Robert Eckert

        In Detroit, half the traffic lights stopped working. This happens in weird weather often, although I don’t know why. It has never been an issue anywhere else I have lived.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Uh oh, don’t tell Tony that the CO$ was at his alma mater… https://churchofscientologyint.newswire.com/news/forum-brings-together-religious-leaders-in-the-name-of-peace-7916364

    The Church of Scientology Los Angeles was among the 19 religions featured in a peace forum at the California State University of Fullerton Pavilion.

    “After the presentation, the more than 300 people attending joined hands to proclaim their agreement that world peace can be achieved.”

    Why does this sound like it could be a clam scheme to grab wallets while no one notices… 😉

  • Steve Bazemore

    How can i tet a link to ross and carries 2nd episode? Ive been sick and in bed mist of the last 4 days and out of the loop, and still dont seenthe link on the original article about it. Dont remember where i ended up finding it either.. Please help?

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      ETHICS?!?!?!?!? What kind of hellhole is this!

      • Frodis73

        I know…very scary stuff.

    • jazzlover

      He’s certainly not Bill Nye the Science guy.

  • allioops

    wow