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Garcias’ appeal rejected; now the couple faces the real possibility of Scientology arbitration

Luis_GarciaAnother setback for the Garcias, and this one seems to leave little else for them to do but to submit to Scientology’s internal arbitration scheme.

As we told you earlier, Luis and Rocio Garcia appealed the ruling by federal Judge James Whittemore granting Scientology’s motion to compel the Garcias to use the church’s arbitration process — even though Whittemore himself admitted that there was significant evidence that the arbitration scheme was a sham and didn’t exist.

The Garcias first sued Scientology in January 2013, alleging that they had been defrauded when they were convinced to donate more than a million dollars to the organization. Specifically, about $400,000 in donations they said were solicited from them in a deceptive manner. But Scientology pointed out that the Garcias had signed numerous contracts which called for all disputes to be handled internally, with refund requests hashed out through an internal arbitration scheme. The Garcias countered with testimony by former church officials who said that the contracts were designed to confound members who complained, and that no arbitration had ever occurred, and even that there were no actual policies for an arbitration to take place.

Whittemore, in his order, acknowledged that the arbitration scheme might be actually nonexistent, but he said that probing into that question would force him into internal church matters that were protected by Scientology’s religious rights under the First Amendment. So he granted Scientology’s motion, and put the case on hold until the Garcias submitted to the church’s internal scheme.

Rather than do that, the Garcias appealed, but in their appeal, they checked off a box which said that Whittemore’s order had been a final one. Scientology objected, saying that Whittemore had not ended the case, and that the Garcias were improperly asking for an interlocutory appeal of a lawsuit that hadn’t technically ended.

The Eleventh Circuit of the US Court of Appeals agreed, and rejected the Garcias’ appeal. Now, we hear, the Garcias are talking with their attorneys about whether they should actually go through with Scientology’s arbitration scheme — even though they have argued that it’s inherently unfair for former members who have been declared “suppressive persons.” We’ll let you know when we learn what they decide to do.

 

Garcia: Appeal Dismissed

 
——————–

Nancy’s message for Mexico

NancyMexico

 

To my dear Mexican friends, I am very excited to come to your next event Org Ideal. I have many Latino friends – and there is no doubt that “passion” and “family” are the common denominators. I can not wait to see and meet everyone. Since the end of the OT VII, VIII, the three Ls and the path of Super Power, my life has taken a completely new turn! I cannot wait to share all my wins with you. And even more. .. I cannot wait to see for myself all the amazing miracles that everyone is doing for ODD!!! See you soon !!! Love, Nancy

Ambassador Nancy Cartwright OT, New OT VIII completion 3 Ls, Super Power. Voice actress, film, television and comedian. She is highly regarded for her long-running role as the voice of Bart Simpson character in the animated television series of The Simpsons. Bart’s character was named among the 100 most important people of the 20th century by Time magazine and in 2000, Bart and the rest of the Simpson family were awarded a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. In addition to this role in it it would make the voices of 5 characters more. In addition to her work on The Simpsons, Nancy has also made the voice of many other characters in several other recognized shows. Winner of several prestigious awards and is a Primetime Emmy Award and an Annie Award.

Clear Viva Mexico!
For the Family and its unwavering Heroes
Canvas Charro del Pedregal
Camino a Santa Teresa 304, Charra, Tlalpan, Mexico City, DF
Sunday August 23, 2015 – 1:00 pm
Dress Code: Semi-Formal (Charro, Adelitas or Jeans and Jacket)

 
Wow. It’s not enough that Her Royal Governness of the Vast Valley Territory has to drag all of you miserly Los Angeles deadbeats to donate money for the Ideal Org, now she has to go to Mexico City to beg for cash south of the border? Ay, carumba.

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
August 4: London, Conway Hall, 19:30, (with John Sweeney)

August 24: Boston, Boston Skeptics in the Pub, 7 pm (with Gregg Housh)

Sept 15: Barrett the Honors College, Arizona State University, ASU in Downtown Phoenix campus

Sept 23: Cleveland, Parma Heights Library, 7pm sponsored by Center for Inquiry – Northeast Ohio

Sept 24: Minneapolis

Sept 27: Portland

Sept 28: Seattle, Razzi’s Pizzeria, 7 pm, with Seattle Skeptics and Seattle Atheists

Sept 29: Vancouver, BC, Seven Dining Lounge, 7 pm

Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 26: Melbourne

Oct 28: Adelaide (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 2, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 
——————–

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  • Sid

    OSA Hates Facebook!

    Since being on the outs OSA has been busy spreading the love and I’ve lost about 90 or so friends on Facebook. Many of them over the past month. For some reason OSA puts a huge importance on Facebook friends.

    I had an idea. I thought if everyone, exes and others, all started sending Friend requests to Scientologists on Facebook we’d likely pick up thousands, or at least hundreds of people. Sure, many would refuse but there are lots of them who would accept the request.

    Think of how busy OSA would be going around to all the local Scientologists attempting to quell the flood of new SP friends. It would drive them crazy.

    Is this a bad idea? I’m not always a good judge of these things. Any input would be appreciated.

    • Ruby

      I don’t really want them as friends.

      • Sid

        Yeah. That was the thought I had also. I was just thinking it might be a way to irritate OSA but I’ll drop the idea.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          T’was a good thought as I had it too awhile back. I don’t want to get into that game (but would be fun). Beside i don’t want them to see all my real friends or family.

          • Doc M

            It must be difficult Dee, but you know that they’re only going to head trip you.
            Like an alcoholic being offered a drink by an irresponsible so called friend.

            It’s must be a pity that underneath that smiley brainwashed facade are some genuinely nice people. They just can’t see the reality. They sincerely believe they are doing the right thing.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Yes a pity, and I was one of those people living in a bubble world. The difference of being public or SO is one intermingles more with others. But one still has the attitude you’re smarter and know more than the never-ins, because you are trained that way through Hubbords words. When you wake up to, ‘hey maybe he’s not so right’, do you finally change back to your genuine self.

            • Doc M

              I many be wrong, but I think the genuine self is always there, just very suppressed (not using the term the way Scientology does) and again expertly manipulated. Actually when I think about it, it is those who are “in” who are really the suppressives. How ironic.

              I believe this because when watching the videos of Karen, Tory, Chris, even the Pope etc or reading the the books by Nancy Many, Jenna Hill etc or reading the posts here, I just see caring big-hearted funny people who want and wanted to make a difference. I guess these people and you were prime for the picking by this evil group.

              You are all part of a very special group of people (those who are ex’s and those who are never ins), again, people who genuinely care about others, the world and all the wrongs around us. Unfortunately, it seems that so many people, then and now, just go to work, watch TV, never read a book and are totally happy to live that sheltered life, only caring about “me, me me”.

              This is why you are all my heroes and role models.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Actually, using Huboreds tech. My analysis is that those in are not the real suppressive’s tho they tend to act that way. Rather they are all PTS (potential trouble source, according to the tech) to the Real SP (someone nuts) who is David Miscaviage (and Ron’s tech). They can’t see it but he’s destroyed any good some thought or think they got or get from it.
              So actually he is doing a good by making sure Scn does not survive, tho he can’t see that, because he is really nuts or SP just like the founder.

              We call ourselves cutely SP’s with fond affection, because that’s what they think of us. Truth is the real meaning Hubturd wrote, is what he and DM really are.

              When I did my last PTS course to find the real SP, I just kept coming back to the HUb and they refused that as being a correct item, it cannot be him, which it turns out it was. I had to lie and make up something to get finished with the course. One can’t fool your own self, only control you to think as they want. I didn’t have the balls then to stand up for my truth.

            • Doc M

              I did the Baby PTS-SP course, some seemed to make sense, the majority didn’t. They wanted me to do the real one, I said no and fought to get my money back ( had pre-paid). That was the end, they paid me 60% over 2 years of monthly payments, I had to constantly call to remind them. More often than not, the check didn’t come.

              They finally thanked me by reporting me to the police for alleged vandalism. Luckily the cops knew the score and laughed it off. What a nice caring group of people they were.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      I wouldn’t. I get friend requests from Scientology friends from the past and just ignore them. Some were really nice people but it’s like feeding a stray cat. Then they come looking for you. Want to save me from my life of debauchery.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Yeah, they can take their,”crimes’ and shove them up their ass.

      • Doc M

        Does it feel like zombies from “Night of the living Dead?”

    • aegerprimo

      I have a couple of peeps who are Scientologists and friends with me on FB. They have not yet noticed I belong to the SPs ‘r’ US group. LOL.
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/SPsrUS/

      • Sid

        I still have some also. I lose a few (or more) every day.

  • Sarcasmo

    I get a little bored with the stories that focus on celebrities instead of the many, many other transgressions perpetrated by the cherch, but thought I’d mention this link if only for the picture of Krusty. There’s links to other articles as well, but the main article was rather lazily written so I’m assuming the others are of equal value.

    http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/08/02/exscientologist-lisa-marie-presley-rep

    Tom, Tom, Tom. I get it that some critics seem to focus 90% of what they say on TC, and I’m probably gonna catch some flak for this, but I sometimes think some of us in the critic’s community are a bit unfair or use a double standard.

    As much as I’d like to see TC sweat under questioning or mentioning of ‘Going Clear,’ I’m going to cut him some slack. As a comparison, a few months ago a journalist came under fire for bringing personal and past history into an interview Robert Downey Jr. was giving while promoting ‘The Avengers’ in which RDJ walked out. There’s a difference between an actor doing publicity for a movie and giving a general interview. Ask away about anything and everything for a Vanity Fair interview or when sitting across from Dianne Sawyer or when on 60-Minutes, but I have no problem with an actor, TC included, making certain things off limits when they’re promoting a film. That said, I fully support free speech and would love to hear someone shout out questions about ‘Going Clear’ on the red carpet or in public. People who aren’t beholden to rules set up by publicists.

    And do check that Krusty photo out. It’s a gas.

    • Robert Hammond

      Interesting comments that seem to be a diversion from the article. If anyone is on Facebook (I’m not) this may be a good place to add a comment about Scientology.

    • Doc M

      Have to admit, Cruise and Katie made a beautiful little girl!

    • sugarplumfairy

      When a man ( or woman, for that matter) works on a daily basis to further the interests of an abusive institution like co$, all bets are off..

      Downey Jr is only self-destructive.. He doesn’t lend his name and his fortune, each and every day of his life, keeping scientology’s scam working..

      So, I say, have at him, journalists.. Any way, any day, you can try and that frigging little asshole’s attention, do it!!!

      • Sarcasmo

        You know, that’s an excellent point. I’ve changed my mind on the subject. I try to be consistent in my standards and minimize my acts of hypocrisy, but you’ve shown me how the two circumstances are different. Of course TC has put ‘Going Clear’ on the list of subjects journalists agree not to ask about, but I wonder if they could ask him where Shelly is?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Another repost from last night, in case you missed it.
    A gift from one Bunker to another – the latest installment πŸ™‚

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub9ezCTMsVs

    • MaxSpaceman

      “Sweet Clam-F@*king Chowder!”

      • salin

        We can still find parking…

        • MaxSpaceman

          Yes! and, ‘ no more “scuba in Aruba.” ‘

          • salin

            Pan is inspirational!

            • Doc M

              She is amazing!

          • Rasha

            …and his blog is on fire!

          • Doc M

            and again, Brilliant

        • Ah, so that’s why the parking lots are empty: All those OTs postulating empty spots!

          • Todd Tomorrow

            What a win!

        • Doc M

          Again, Brilliant!

      • Doc M

        BRILLIANT

    • Kestrel

      These just never get old.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      This is brilliant. F@#k that impotent Botoxed toothy plane-hanger.

    • aegerprimo

      “…We can still find parking no problem….”
      Tee hee.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Plus mentioning our Tony Ortega, so nice…

    • anoni81b4u

      GREAT πŸ™‚ LOTS OF LAUGHS at that one !

    • beauty for ashes

      I swear, every time I think, Panopea has done the penultimate hitler video.
      I love being wrong. Merci buckets for the brain challenging metaphors mon frère!

    • Doc M

      Off topic Pan, but thought you were an XY, just found out otherwise why? I suppose I’m sexist without even realizing it, but regardless your writing is beautiful.

    • Doc M

      Holy Shit Pan, I just had a chance to watch the entire video and am pissing in my pants. Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant!!! and even more Brilliant!

    • Doc M

      “Blowing her gelding of a whiny husband”…..I run out of adjectives…god just so funny…pissing in my pants a second time.

      Who are you?? John Cleese? He’s the only other one who makes me laugh like this.

      I wish someone could put together a best of the bunker!!!

    • Juicer77

      “Kernel….” XD

    • TheMirrorThetan

      “Where is my favourite apple-box? Its coming with me.”
      Just like a blankie or stuffed toy. LOL.

  • salin

    Some Idle Musings…

    Ideal Org: Scieno Semantics
    Idle Orca = a whale who needs to be squeezed.
    Idol Orchestra = the musicians playing while The Source is saluted.
    Idyllic Orb = transportation to the targets
    Ideation Orbital = Carla Moxon’s heroic disbanding of an appocolypse
    Id Obfuscation = Lron personality implant, aka the EP.

    • Science Doc

      Ideal Olestra = good mouth feel without the cramping and anal leakage

      • Olestra! *cringe and involuntary cheek clench*

        • Science Doc

          That stuff was nasty.

      • aegerprimo

        ROFL! ☺

      • Kestrel

        Ideal Olestra = symptoms include credit cramping and wallet leakage.

  • CobGatYour$$

    Hey Karen, or Jeff Augustine, or Tory, or anyone who was in a long time, and worked in SO, or executive status, I have a question: Is it posdible that TC, JT, and Duggan, Cardone and other clams at their level, not only know all the abuses everyone else faces (disconnections, RPF, child slavery, human slavery, horrific abuse, below substandard living, etc.), but have been told that because of their “bigbeing status” it does not apply to them, and somehow all these other followers deserve this, as it is part of the bigger plan to “save the planet?”

    • B4you

      All those VIPΕ› has Ethics-protection from day one and can get away with murder, as per policy!

    • Todd Tomorrow

      One would think that they’d be more careful about hiring $cion slaves. I know one of tc’s maids was questioned by the FBI. What idiots, you have billions, as in the case of, Duggan and then get caught keeping a slave. But stuff just seems to sadly bounce of of $cientology.

    • Robert Hammond

      Like everything else, Scientology likes to redefine words to suit their nefarious purposes.

      Freedom = slavery
      Ethics = crimes
      Arbitration = firing squad

      • Doc M

        “Arbeit macht frei”

        Work makes you free…via the gas chamber

    • Veronica

      I was thinking more along the lines of dunking stools and trials by fire… or the good old relative buoyancy test.

      • Doc M

        or worse, having to have dinner with Kirsty or Jenna

  • Jgg2012

    In California state courts, a deposition can be videotaped. I wonder if the Garcias can require the Scientology arbitration to be videotaped. I would love to see Mr. Ellis try to rule on objections. It would be funnier than the Cruise video.

    • Doc M

      arbitration, is not the same as a deposition, two different puppies.

  • Meant to post this yesterday — Happy Commentversary Everyone!
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/36/c4/38/36c438e70ebf14fe5a0cfb0ea47046cd.png

    • Sid

      And don’t forget to turn in your stats at 2am Friday.

      • Or whenever. Or never. Doesn’t it feel good to be a Bunkerite and not a Scientologist?

        • Rasha

          We get Carryover Stats – just save ’em up til whenthehellever.

        • Jimmy3

          I would have to try them both to give an unbiased opinion. Are there free trial memberships for the Church of Scientology? Coupons, maybe?

          • jazzlover

            Only ones of the non-redeemable variety.

            • Jimmy3

              Nah, I’m sure if you’re not satisfied, they will readily give you your money back without hassle.

            • jazzlover

              Yeah, I could see why you’d have 100% confidence that’d happen πŸ™‚ Is that called being “up (your) stat?

            • Rasha

              That’s a relief. I’m still on the phone trying to cancel my AOL. Good to know there are reputable organizations out there…

            • B4you

              *LOL*

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Like Earthlink?

            • Rasha

              *gasp* ….1200… baud…. flashbacks…..

            • ze moo

              Been there, even before Earthlink tried the ISP business.

            • Rasha

              I always giggle when there are children over, and War Games comes on, and Matthew Broderick dials up using his acoustic modem, and the kids are like, “…ummmm, what is he doing?”, and I have to start from first principles…… “That’s what was known as a ‘land line’…. telephones – yes, they were called ‘telephones’ – had wires to connect them…. stop laughing…”

            • ze moo

              You’ll get the same laughs from an 8 inch floppy or wire recorder. ‘8 Tracks, what are those Grandpa’?

            • Rasha

              “…And git away from that thar card sorter!! Dagnabbit!!”

            • Matt in Atlanta

              Wow! I have a Webster wire recorder. It works and is in a very nice walnut veneer case.

            • aegerprimo

              Keep in mind, you will receive their mail FOREVER!

          • Vaquera

            A punch card.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            An online coupon for 10% off your first course*.

            *10% off when you pay for your first course. Does not include $500 fee to leave the premises after said course.

          • thetastic

            Scientology? Free?

        • Sid

          Hell yeah!

    • jazzlover

      Wow! Speaking of Kate Moss πŸ™‚ She doesn’t look quite as messy as she should there. I’m gonna have to request a re-shoop πŸ˜‰

    • Doc M

      Lot of us SPs, decleared and not decleared out there.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Sunday, 02 August 2015

    Good day Bunkerettes and Bunkeroos,

    Allow me to gloat again!
    We have bad news & EXCELLENT news. The bad news is that we are still battling with google doc and cannot extract an accurate score also the trawling might be a bit erratic, but eventually we get there.
    The good news is: we have started the new month with a BANG, Tampa was depleted (200+ removals) and we have struck some serious blows to other regions.

    Thank you to all the Red-Xers, flaggers and complainers, it can be done.

    See the results by browsing through the regional list to see the damage to SFBay, LA & OC, East, Texas, Nashville , Tampa of course and a good show by Albuquerque!

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-120#post-2533632

    Keep the vulnerable and depressed away from co$, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Ranger by El Chief enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/15392179877/in/set-72157642802079293

    • salin

      I just joined the effort (focus on the midwest). I encourage anyone who is interested, but perhaps a bit overwhelmed by the directions – work through the directions, then ask questions on one of these threads. Folks are generous with advice, and patient with we sometimes tech impaired.

      • Juicer77

        QuickFlag is awesome – saves a couple steps πŸ™‚ It’s on the right when you open the docs.google link and the Regional page comes up automatically.

        • salin

          I am still such a newby… will try to figure out the quick flag tomorrow. If I can’t figure it out – I’ll respond to your message here – and ask for help. Sometimes I am just need guidance. Thanks!

        • salin

          Going to try to figure out the quick flag. I am not always so tech savvy. Hope you don’t mind if I come back to this and ask basic questions. Thanks.

          • Juicer77

            No problem. Ask away if you get stuck πŸ™‚ Thanks for helping out!

  • Richard

    My plans were to be in London for Tony’s event.
    Unfortunately, I can’t make it.
    I have a ticket for the Conway Hall and would be happy to give it to someone, including any Scientologist, for Tuesday evening.

  • Doc M

    Could be “globe” or “enquirer” stuff, but just caught it

    http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/08/02/exscientologist-lisa-marie-presley-rep

    • ze moo

      ‘Reported’ in other tabloids earlier last week. I smell bullshite. Presley has never spoken out publicly about the CO$. I smell a Paramount plant that attempts to make TC seem ‘salvageable’. I very much doubt that he will ever escape the clampire. One glaring factual error in the ‘story’. Cruise saw Suri around Christmas time and perhaps again, within the last month.

      I can’t wait for the National Enquirer to show the ‘Shroud of TC’. Much merriment will ensue.

      • Doc M

        You’re right, just another tabloid special.

  • B4you

    I think Tony O should arrange a live transmission to the Internet using a Mobile with the right app? And the right Data provider? And the right man to hold the phone for 2 hours? And the…. Maybe not πŸ™‚

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    I had forgotten to check my mail yesterday so NOLAHubby brought it in to me a little while ago and what was there among the usual mail? Junk mail from “The Foundation for a Drug Free World”

    What the fuckity fuck?? It is currently back in my mailbox in a return envelope with a nasty note about never sending me Scientology front-group information again and a few links to some entheta websites. Fuck them!!

    GET OUT OF MY MAILBOX!!

    • Sejanus

      Did you sanitize your hands after touching it?

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        No, lol, probably should have.

        Now I’m rethinking sending it back and holding onto it in case they send more. I don’t know. That really pissed me off though. Gonna pull it out of the mailbox & think on it a bit.

        • Jenny Daniels

          Nola, Sweetie, please pour yourself a drink and and have some cake…I promise it will help!

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Thanks love, I am having that drink as we speak. It was just weird. I’m a never-in and I’ve never ordered anything from Co$, not to mention they aren’t exactly flourishing in this area. I do know my name is on a couple mailing lists so it could just be coincidental. I am going to wait and see.

            • Jenny Daniels

              Perhaps simply return what they had sent? At least it will cost them something, then if you get more detritus you can append your appropriate note with website recommendations?
              Enjoy that drink and have another one just for me!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Just going to hang onto it for now and take a wait and see approach. I will, however, have that second cocktail for you. πŸ™‚ It’s been a really good day and I’m not going to let trash-mail from Co$ ruin it. *raises glass to you*

            • Rasha

              (lifts a tumbler from another table)

            • Rasha

              C’mon! There must be hundreds of NOLAGirls! Hehe. Seriously, though, I had contacted them once decades ago, not knowing any better, then hightailed it away. However, not only did I get on the eternal mailing list, they somehow (though they probably just guessed) found someone with my name in another state to mail to (Me.), And this is over 20 years later. Honestly, I think they just buy cheap lists online, and their stats are based on how many mailings they send out. At least the phone calls have stopped for the time being.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Yeah, the more I think about it, the more the ‘mailing list’ option becomes plausible. They’re probably getting desperate for anybody to contact them, I can see them purchasing lists (and my name being on one of them) just to send out their garbage on the slim chance they might get someone to respond. lol πŸ™‚

              I can’t imagine the phone calls. That would have driven me insane.

            • Sid

              Scan it and post it. We can see what drivel looks like.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Will do Sid. Have some things going on this week and have to go to the office to scan it but I will post it as soon as I do. It is definitely mindless drivel.

            • Rasha

              I’m sure the calls will start again in a few years, unless there is justice in the Universe and they go under.

            • jazzlover

              Another possibility — although remote — is that some outrageously talented hacker within Disqus OR CoS is randomly grabbing email addresses attached to Disqus accounts that post frequently in this forum. Ya just never know. (One of my credos is “if you can conceive it, you can believe it”) I’ll let you know if I start getting these. God knows I get a ton of other suspicious ones from all over the globe πŸ™‚

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Yes please, if any other never-in starts getting stuff they’ve never gotten, please let us know. I know exes are used to it, it’s weird for it to start showing up when you’ve never gotten it before. πŸ™‚

        • Cedilla

          Wipe off your fingerprints.

        • Sejanus

          Just get a cardboard box, load a couple of bricks in it, and send it to a Co$ address postage due with a fictitious return addy.
          Tons of laughter to be had.
          Not that I ever started doing that… just over a year ago… or anything…cuz that would be wrong… sending unsolicited annoying things through the mail to those who have never asked for them.
          Just hilariously wrong…oh and evil, did I mention evil?..lol

    • jazzlover

      You forgot to add “ASSHOLES” at the end πŸ™‚

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I need to edit that post. I am hanging onto it for now. I do agree that adding assholes would have been appropriate though. πŸ˜€

    • Doc M

      Girl, here the explanation, in a past life you did an Oxford or perhaps a stress test. The problem with being a thetan is we can’t remember.

      Solution, toss them or respond with the name and address of someone you hate.

  • Robert Hammond

    Way off topic, but i was just reading this article on “Evaluating Personal Experience” in Skeptic’s Dictionary. Way down toward the bottom of the article is a story about the Phoenix Lights with quotes from Tony Ortega.

    http://www.skepdic.com/essays/evaluatingexperience.html

    In case you don’t feel like reading the whole article (which is excellent, btw), here is the specific part that refers to Tony:

    “Another perceptual twist to this story is that some people may have seen the lights from planes flying in formation, while others saw flares. Some may have seen both and conflated them into a single object. Tony Ortega investigated the story for the Phoenix New Times and interviewed Mitch Stanley who reported seeing the vee formation from his backyard. He was able to view the formation through his telescope and was sure he saw planes in formation, each with two lights. The lights that appeared as single lights to the naked eye, appeared as two lights in his telescope.

    In an article published a year after the 1997 sighting, Ortega wrote:

    An alert owner of a home video camera caught the 8:30 vee pattern on tape. Terry Proctor filmed the vee for several minutes. The quality of the tape is poor, and even under enhancement the video shows nothing joining the five lights of the pattern. However, the pattern of lights changes over just a few seconds. The lights clearly move in relation to each other, proving that the lights represent five separate objects, rather than a solid body. This is consistent with witness reports from Prescott, where one light trailed the others temporarily. (“The Hack and the Quack,” Phoenix New Times, March 5, 1998)

    The pictures above show an image from video shot of the 10:30 lights and a drawing of the 8:30 lights that hammers home the vee shape. Ortega has recently written that programs like Datelinecontinue to interview people who saw the 8:30 lights while showing pictures of the 10:30 lights. The witnesses swear that what they saw was not a bunch of flares hanging from balloons. “They are right,” says Ortega. “They couldn’t see flares, they saw a formation of planes.” (“The Phoenix Lights Explained (Again),”Skeptic, Volume 14 Number 2, August, 2008).”

    • Tony Ortega

      The biggest problem with the Phoenix Lights is that no one will ever seem to get it straight that the 8:30 pm incident was completely different from the 10:30 pm incident. The 8:30 incident was a vee that crossed the entire state in only an hour. It had to, by the laws of physics, be moving about 400 miles an hour. It was a vee formation of high-flying planes, as seen in Mitch Stanley’s telescope. The 10:30 incident was completely different — a set of lights that dropped slowly down behind a far range of mountains from those watching in Phoenix. It was seen nowhere else in the state. This was the set of flares dropped by military planes over a military range, and they owned up to it. This entire night of incidents is not mystery, but people keep conflating the two different episodes and making a confusing hash out of it.

      • Robert Hammond

        I remember the original reports on the news and all the commotion. Your report gives the best explanation of all the conflating stories and speculation. I just happened to be reading a series of articles in Skeptic’s Dictionary about Self-Deception and came across this link.

        UFOs are among the biggest thing in conspiracy circles, especially after the X-Files made it seem like even more of a government coverup. Many people get caught up in the hype without engaging any critical thinking or real investigation. Glad you covered this story and put it in perspective.

      • Rasha

        Of course. Accurately relating facts is just being pedantic. Funny, though, that the way people connect up unrelated dots in the stories to come up with the wrong (though steadfastly defended) conclusion is exactly the same thing – but on another level – as the original story.

      • Jimmy3

        So… What you’re saying is, basically, aliens.

        • Lone Star

          Yes. I think that’s exactly what he’s saying. LOL…

          • Lone Star

            Actually these aliens, in league with Xenu, were searching for the titanium vault where all of Hubbard’s materials are kept. They were just one state off.

            • Kestrel

              A billboard advertising Kool cigarettes threw them off the scent.

      • Mark

        Ever thought of contributing to Fortean Times, Tony?

      • Juicer77

        But the psychic dog is real, right????

        • MostEthicalPimp

          Yes, That is how Tony knew Scientology was a con of a religion. He had seen real super powers before!

  • valshifter

    Nancy C. is the clown of scientology, you can clearly see the sad face on the pamphlet, the clown is becoming tired and sad. As for wins you might have wins but is not because of scientology, is because of the line of work that you do even a blind can see that.

  • ze moo

    I really think the judge gave the Garcias the nasty end of the stick. I can see why he did it, after all the Garcias signed a lot of ‘agreements’ to abide by clam rules.

    What is next for them?

    I really hope they go the ‘arbitration’ route. There are so many chances for the clams to screw up that I just have to think that the magazine is loaded with high caliber foot bullets.

    Any misstep in the ‘arbitration’ process will easily bring another suit and one that the courts can’t brush under the rug.

    So what do the clams do? They’ll come up with a sham ‘arbitration’, one that probably has an expensive price tag to use. Then after all the ‘arbitration’, they give the Garcias their monies left on account for training, or some percentage of that total. The ‘donations’ will never be on the table. This scienoario {spelling deliberate} all depends on how much is on account and how much the clams want to ‘arbitrate’.

    Many have written how devastating a mass ‘withdrawal’ from ‘monies on account for future training’ would be. That would really screw the local missions and mOrgs. They would have to get someone ‘uplines’ to pay off such bills.

    Would those ‘uplines’ actually let the missions and mOrgs collapse? Maybe, if an under preforming mOrg ‘temporally’ shut its doors, what a great fund raising flail that would be for the local clams.

    Don’t look at it as a ‘bankruptcy’, look at it as a ‘business opportunity’. It is always about the money, except when it is about obedience to the will of Niblet.

    Had some nice local corn on the cob with my grilled steak tonight…I love summer…..

    • Kestrel

      In my perfect world, the orgs would claim poverty and the courts would demand to provide how the money and real estate moved uplines, making the higher CoS entities liable and requiring them to pay. Imagine what a gold mine of information that would be.

    • In my experience, if someone asks for a refund, it comes only from the org that was paid. In case with Garcias and that cross scam, we are talking about Flag. Flag still makes plenty of money, plus it’s a sea org org.

    • Techie

      Logically, the Cherch would offer an open and just arbitration procedure that provides an appropriate compensation to the Garcias, proving to the world that they are not what they seem. This would possibly open the door for more arbitration requests, but the new ones would be low profile and the Cherch could go back to ripping off the parishioners after the dust settles. Fortunately we are not talking about a logical, rational entity. We are talking about Dave. In Dave World the scene is easily divided into Enemies and Friends, with almost everyone in the Enemy camp. In Dave World there are many conflicting objectives that have to be considered. First is anything Dave may have said to his underlings, if Dave has demanded a solution that is the solution. All other considerations are secondary. Dave must get his way. That includes the lawyers, and any lawyer that works for Dave is to be pitied rather than scorned. It is probably more difficult to get Dave to change his mind than to argue successfully before the Supreme Court. Mountains of transcripts are kept of every word out of Dave’s mouth, and if anything he said could be taken as an order there are teams of minions that enforce it. Second is the mountain of orders from Hubbard, carefully preserved and consulted by Dave and his minions. Since these are internally incoherent you can make a case for almost any action based on the “words of Hubbard”. In one note to his housekeeper he may have hinted that he likes green, in another to the architects at the Big Blue he seemed to favor blue. A taped lecture records his disdain for “Military OD” which generations of word clearers have determined to mean “Olive Drab”. So what color should we use? Blue I guess, but what says it is the light sky blue of the big building in LA? Imagine thousands of pages of these writings. You can dig through and find something Hubbard said about just about anything. It becomes a guessing game, someone proposes action A, someone else pipes up and says “Didn’t Hubbard condemn action A in advice B?” OK, what about action B? Instead of rational decision making you have decision by ancient authority. This enters in to the decision making process though it is secondary to the Will of Dave. Once Dave has decided, it can be purported to be scriptural by some twisted form of exegesis. Thirdly, the past must be considered. Mainly this takes the form of finding blame in someone other than Dave. If action C is proposed, the reaction from Dave may be “Didn’t that a-hole so and so do that? And isn’t he declared? So why are you proposing action C? Expletive deleted.” So in proposing a course of action, Dave’s minions have to navigate a mine field of previous actions that Dave did not like. The right one may be the one that Mike or Marty proposed long ago. If so it will never happen even if the walls come crashing down. This “management style” absolutely guarantees that the most major foot-bullet will be the one that is fired. We have seen it again and again, and marveled at the accuracy and caliber of the own goals that are created. In this crazy world it is very likely that the Garcias will either never get any arbitration, proving them right before the court, or will get some very strange version that anyone can see is unjust. If this is well documented, ideally by the Wise Beard Man or Nora Crest or someone with similar skills, it will back fire. And just maybe some justice will finally result.

    • Juicer77

      (For newbies, getting the money from “uplines” means sucking it out of the folks doing lower level courses and donating to their local org. The Co$ will try at all costs to spend any of THEIR ill-gotten gains.)

  • I know Chris Shelton already posted it earlier today, but this is for anyone who missed it – Critical Q&A #16.
    Question about trolling in The Underground Bunker starts around 17:50. Chris gives really good answer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm22oDjMWpY

    • Robert Hammond

      Thanks for posting. I did miss it from earlier. Usually I get an email from being on the YouTube subscription as well. So I always appreciate when people re-post good videos and articles. With over a thousand comments a day coming in here, it’s hard to see every link.

      • Welcome, Robert. Ironically, the aforementioned question was asked by someone with the same last name as yours! Thanks for many of your fun and relevant posts, by the way. It’s great to have you here amongst us.

        • Robert Hammond

          Yes. I noticed that. She also posts on this site every so often. No relation. I haven’t seen anyone else with the last name of Laser yet, but that’s also a very common name, so you never know who’ll show up.

          • Cool. And yes, almost half of my classmates were also named DodoTheLaser. It was trendy back then. Fun times.

            • Sid

              Well naming conventions do seem to change decade to decade. These days it’s all about “DodoTheDeathRay”. But eventually the names circle around to repeat the oldies like ” DodoTheWaterPistol”.

            • Laughing here!!

            • Ben Franklin

              I am still waiting for Dodo The Laser Beam

            • It’s my middle name.

        • Evey Hammond

          No relation, name is a favorite movie character. Movie is V for Vendetta

    • this possibly explains the behaviour of Sally Western over on my blog, lol

  • anoni81b4u

    After The Garcia’s fail in cult arbitration, I will use my OT powers to predict the future πŸ™‚

    • Sarah James

      You just did. πŸ™‚

    • MostEthicalPimp

      The volcano is making me all meethrup-ulatered me!

  • 9001

    Open Database Of The Corporate World
    Found a site that may be a helpful resource for anyone looking into corporations, including Co$ and Narconon.
    https://opencorporates.com/companies?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=church+of+scientology&commit=Go
    Narconon results (F5)

    • Nice find. Thanks, 9001.

      • 9001

        A pleasure Dodo πŸ™‚

    • Juicer77

      Thanks, I shared this over at ReachingForTheTippingPoint. They may already know about it (they have encyclopedic knowledge about NarCONon) but it’s worth sharing another source of info.

      • 9001

        Thanks Juicer. Please share wherever you think will help. It’s a very good tool.

    • jazzlover

      Nice! You are one twisted dude! I like that πŸ™‚

      • twisted?… I like to think of myself as fine specimen of the English boarding school system [I only got caned twice].

        • beauty for ashes

          Is that anything like going to Catholic school in the US?

          • funnily enough “private” [boarding] schools in the UK are actually called ‘public schools’…. this pic might give you an idea

            • Dr. Herder: He can’t forget being rejected by his mother and father at the age of 11. They sent him away, alone, into a primitive community of licensed bullies and pederasts.

              Sir Charles: You mean he went to public school.

              Dr. Herder: Exactly.

        • jazzlover

          You seem none the worse for wear πŸ˜‰

        • Cedilla
  • Observer

    OT: hasn’t Croatia been mentioned as a possible destination for COB when he takes the money and runs? If so, he might want to rethink it.

    refresh

    • beauty for ashes

      Bwahaha! He will never be able to go out. In fact scientology will have disabled him. kinda ironic. And no doubt he will build his own Ideal Bathrooms for his hideout.

    • In Croatia, you reflect mirrors.

    • jazzlover

      I say nothing less than a hollowed out apartment building in Chernobyl will do πŸ™‚

      • Kestrel

        Security wouldn’t be a problem…

        • jazzlover

          We’ll just let the remaining 3-eyed dogs take care of him πŸ˜‰

    • Techie

      Not a problem, he doesn’t reflect in mirrors anyway. Something about a trip to Transylvania with Tom Cruise awhile back.

      • jazzlover

        You mean he’s really Brad Pitt πŸ˜‰

        • Techie

          Or Bella Lugosi…….

          • jazzlover

            ROFLMAO

      • Enturbulated Masterbator

        At least with vampires they cannot come into your house without an invitation. In $cientology they simply take your house (and your money and your children and…)

    • I’m not in Croatia

    • richelieu jr

      Yeah, they grow them big over there. MY GF is half-Croatian and 1m78…

      Our son towers over the other toddlers…

  • beauty for ashes

    I’m at least glad that the Garcias tried. Maybe it was not the cheapest way to get their money back. Maybe it was not even their goal. The only way it is ever going to be **easy** to get refunds from CO$ is for these kind of things to happen more often and make enough stink. Maybe I’m wrong, I dunno. It’s good their not letting the church just run right over them, though. πŸ™‚ I hope they end up satisfied.

    • I don’t think it was ever about the money for Garcias. They are on crusade.

      • salin

        I hope so, and I hope they recognize they have a large community rooting for them.

      • jazzlover

        That can’t be a bad thing, could it?

        • Not in this case, imo. Not bad at all. Depends who you ask, of course.

      • beauty for ashes

        Yeah, I agree. I hope this ends well for them.

  • MostEthicalPimp

    O/T: Is Scientology the shellfish of religions? Yes, and been was left out all day. Don’t consume throw it out!

    • Scientology/Dianetics starts as a collection of common wisdom, over the top promises of great physical, mental health and immortality, pop psychology and elementary counseling.

      It sprinkled with the front groups that scream “social”, “betterment” and “improvement”.

      It uses the E-Meter woo woo that registers things so conveniently in accordance with Hubbard’s pre-established descriptions (should be looked into more, but scientifically, imo) to cement the fascination of the newbs.

      At the same time, it uses positivity and “love bombing” to manipulate, control and engage one in it, so they invest their attention, time, money and life in it as much as possible.

      Once one is deep enough, It uses ones trust to control them. It’s also known as Betrayal of Trust.

      It gets worse from there.

      One achieves “Clear”. It can be cancelled later. And “achieved” again. Usually lots of money involved.

      And “Clears” are never really any different from non-clears, in any way.

      The OT levels is when it begins to get really pretty crazy. The cognitive dissonance is like a suppressed geiser. For many years. And hundreds of thousands of dollars.

      And yet “OTs” are no different from “wogs”.

      This is Scientology.

      • Kestrel

        Beautifully written.

        • Thank you.

          • jazzlover

            No, thank you πŸ™‚

            • Baby

              NO , Thank Me

            • jazzlover

              I’m sorry. I guess I was brain farting πŸ™‚ Thank you, Baby!!!

            • Baby

              Oh So many to thank..so little time Jazz.. xo

            • coonellie

              Where is that librarian when you need her? πŸ˜‰

            • Baby

              Hahahhaha.. Oh MY God coon.. that is a fabulous comeback..

              ” NO Spittin Babies in the Library! ” haha

            • noseinabk

              Baby being confronted by osa :(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = “//connect.facebook.net/en_US/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3”; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, ‘script’, ‘facebook-jssdk’));

              Heisenberg humiliated by a baby.by Marca BlancaPosted by UNILAD on Monday, May 25, 2015

            • noseinabk

              I have no idea why that posted that way. Sorry

            • MaxSpaceman

              it’s still funny and Meepthorp likes that kind of J&D’ing πŸ™‚

            • Baby
            • Where is that fake librarian? Fixed. πŸ™‚

      • MostEthicalPimp

        One of the things that really shocked my system was when I started thinking about the cancellation of states like Clear and OT. (UTR Warning Secrets Revealed) How can a person who has become knowingly cause over MENTAL MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE AND TIME suddenly have that taken away? How can somebody who’s removed their BTs on the OT levels have them suddenly return because they did something? And need to have them removed again. Do really need to spend another 5+ years of their lives on OT7? It don’t make no sense even in upside downside Scientology thinking… BTW, I loved the write up and i’m saving for future reference. I don’t think my silly off the cuff joke was worthy!

        • MostEthicalPimp

          In answer to my own rhetorical question. It’s all made up anyway. So of course they can make up more stuff when they redo it!

        • noseinabk

          Imagine if that happened in school. Wouldn’t it be like going back for a masters and them telling you that you lost your BA because you had the wrong books so you need to start back doing pre-requisites? How can people just say yes to that?
          I know it’s not the same thing. You don’t lose all of your friends and family if you drop out.

          • MostEthicalPimp

            Kind of but not really. I’m not sure if you know what I’m are referring to. I’m referring to the fact that if you are declared an SP and do an A to E. You have to start on the bottom of the bridge both on the training and processing side I’m not referring to that everyone has to redo the bridge because the tech wasn’t perfect. Basically, it would be like having gotten your master’s degree in climate science and then having come-out and said climate change is just a big scam. But later you come out say that you were wrong and climate change is real. And then being forced to redo all your school work since 1st grade!

            • MostEthicalPimp

              Just to add. You also get to restart the third side of the bridge. Known accurately as the IAS bridge to total bankruptcy!

            • noseinabk

              Yeah, it was a bad analogy. Few pull the rug out from under you the way that Cos does.

        • Very good point, re: OT7. I know people who did it twice. Decades of magical thinking.

        • scottmercer

          That must be why some people go “Free Zone.” They don’t want to give up the purported status they spent so much time and money getting to.

      • Cedilla

        Damn!
        What Kestrel said, “Beautifully written”

        • 15 years of my life in one post.
          I never went “Clear” or “OT”, thank God, but know plenty of them. Thanks.

      • Mike Leopold

        Scientology proves that some things in life are the exact opposite of what they purport to be.
        Scientologists learn this lesson the hardest way possible.
        But recovery from Scientology ultimately is glorious.

    • Robert Hammond

      Scientology is the “terrible, awful” of pies. (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaWfoNPDz74

      • jazzlover

        “Shit is a dish best served cold”

        ROFLMAO

  • Doc M

    When I was in college, I read the National Lampoon and Peed in my pants
    Watching the first season of Saturday Night Live, I peed in my pants.
    Reading some of these posts, I’m still peeing in my pants
    And I never realized I had bladder problems!

    • sugarplumfairy

      Do your kegel exercises.. Not sure if they work for men, but in the interest of continence, worth a try..

      • ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      • Doc M

        lol

      • MostEthicalPimp

        Men can do exercises similar to kegels. The best way to learn which muscles to flex is when peeing start and stop the stream. Some men has are able to learn to control this muscles well enough to build extra endurance in the bedroom… http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GD6qtc2_AQA/sddefault.jpg

        • jazzlover

          ha ha ha. “Hey baby, I have some serious endurance in the bathroom (which can only help between the sheets)”

          • Doc M

            Hey Jazz, remember the Leslie West famous line?

            I may be slow on my feet but I’m fast under the sheets.

            • jazzlover

              Yeah, he probably shouldn’t have said THAT exactly πŸ™‚

            • Cedilla

              Esoterically OT.
              But you mentioned 20’s 30’s jazz the other night.
              I should wait ’til wee hours of Monday morn. But..
              Coon Sanders.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqY4VpuZbrM

            • jazzlover

              Nice! I hadn’t heard of them before. It definitely has a similar vibe to Ellington or Satch from the period. Thanks for posting πŸ™‚

          • Doc M

            Jazz, this is for you

            It starts cooking at about 3 minutes, but whole suite is worth hearing early progressive from 1971, you can hear how they fit into early crimson.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snwZ36EH6L4

            • jazzlover

              Good stuff. Thanks! Man, McDonald is such an enigma. Ultra talented musician, but I can’t help but wonder if he didn’t commit artistic suicide by chasing the bucks with Foreigner.

            • Doc M

              Musician’s got to make a living.

            • jazzlover

              I get that. But he was far and away beyond anything the others in that band could conjure up. So much so that he stuck out like a sore thumb. And then HE was one of the ones kicked out of the band in the name of streamlining for a more pop-worthy future. Again, since he hasn’t done much since, one can’t help but wonder if that whole experience isn’t he reason. I’m not saying that he should have been able to become more calculatedly mainstream a la Greg Lake or even John Wetton. What I am saying is that it’s a curiosity that he didn’t find more outlets for his talents.

            • Doc M

              In the modern world of music, as in the past, it’s not talent that sells, but marketing. Look at how Bruford walked away from “Yes” just as they were about to become megastars, his reasoning was “Yes reached their pinacle, anything else would be a repeat”. A true artist.

              If talent and inovation really equaled money, success and public adoration,
              how many great jazz people would have become wealthy.

              Greg Lake, was the exception. Jack Bruce, Roy Wood etc etc always had to keep working and their talent was immense, same with Carla Bley, Sonny Rollins.

            • jazzlover

              Ok, so bottom line: why didn’t Ian McDonald work much after Foreigner since I assume that venture didn’t really make him “retirement-ready”? πŸ™‚

            • Doc M

              he did and still does, I think he’s involved with some type of Shakespeare thing now, I never heard his solo album from 1999 or 2000, but would like to.

        • Veronica

          I can easily imagine some “The More You Know” PSAs about Scientology. Also an “It Gets Worse” series.

      • jazzlover

        Us men can only do bagel exercises πŸ™‚

    • Baby

      Bawwwwwwwhahahhaha OMG Doc.. OOps running to john

  • I have a message for Mexico too!
    F5

    • jazzlover

      You are a trip πŸ™‚ To where, I don’t know — but a trip nonetheless.

      • Hades? Sometimes Rancho Cucomonga

        • jazzlover

          Camp Kichigumee?

    • Baby

      The complexity of Frida…She would have thrown monkey shit at them.( F5)

      • sugarplumfairy

        Now, that is a brow to remember..

        • Baby

          absolutely.. The Frida Brow.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I had one.
            It s genetic thing.
            Mu nieces had two sets of hirsute genes

            • Baby

              No kidding..I did not know it is genetic E.. Interesting.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Hirsuteness / hairiness has a genetic component.

              And like many genetic traits it can skip a generation or two.
              I had a unibrow and I suspect my paternal grandmother did too.

              I felt awful when I learned my SIL and older niece convinced my youngest niece to have her eyebrows waxed. it is not something all women talk about about. I blamed in on our family’s genes, and SIL said that “oh no” it came from her side of the family.

              Its an attribute that most women feel they must deal with (in a painful way) to “fit into ” society

              I adore FK’s art. I am not sure I would have liked her. I know I would not want to have been married to Diego Rivera.

            • Baby

              Yes DR and FK had a very complex relationship.. She was perpetually wounded and he in turn wounded her the most.

              Waxing.. I hear it is very painful.. I am Scandinavian ..not much hair.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m Scandinavian, too, and I’ve lost most of my hair on top, but my facial hair grows so thick and rapidly that after 10 days, I nobody asks if I’m growing a beard because I have one. According to science, that’s typical male pattern baldness. I have more hair now then I did as a young man.

              I don’t think I’d like my hair ripped out by the roots, as is done in waxing. It’s bad enough having an adhesive bandage taken off, which pulls at the hair on your skin without removing it.

            • scottmercer

              From what I understand, male head hair and body hair are sometimes inversely proportional. So that’s why you see bald men with ridiculously hairy bodies.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve never heard that before. I do know that I have more hair on my body then I did as a young man which is a part of male pattern baldness.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am a mongrel of northern Europe.
              Who knows where the hair came from?

          • Still up, Babes?

            • Baby

              WTF is right.. That pisses me off.. Talk about passive aggressive behavior. That is a Classic.

              I have been a nanny twice. The first couple would have done that. I was ” The HELP.” I had a cleaning schedule plus a schedule for all 3 kids.

              They would throw down used kleenex used q tips.. cause.well, ” She would pick it up.” I became emotionally, physically and spiritually sick. I became so anxious and panic attacks would become common.

              I lasted 3 years! Because I made a commitment to them. Hahhaha.. OMG.. I promised them when they hired me I would be there for 3 years.. and NO matter how bad they treated me..I remained.

              Thank God I didn’t join the Sea Org..I would be with them for a Billion years!

              The second couple..much later.. Treated me like Alice of the Brady Bunch. I was a treasured member of the family. Included in everything and respected.

              Is there anyway you can just walk away.. ? That is not the way to treat you Nat. It makes me sick. ERRRRRRgh.. I could just smack that woman myself.

  • jazzlover

    For those who might be wondering: “Ok, WTF is this guy’s avatar NOW?”, this should help ‘splain it. In short, my fave Kind Crimson record:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starless_and_Bible_Black

    My favorite track — so powerful, and hopefully a future descriptor for the Muck of SciFi:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrB-V5pkEAQ

  • “The Silence of Tom Cruise”
    http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/08/03/the-silence-of-tom-cruise/
    New post from Jeffrey Augustine on Tom’s stunts, both in scientology and in his new movie.

    • jazzlover

      THAT is one serious piece of quality writing that deserves wide(r) exposure! Kudos to Jeff, and to you for bringing it to our attention.

    • noseinabk
      • MaxSpaceman

        nose- c’mon… Lolol… at the same time the thing’s a smash summer hit nationwide and globally.

        • noseinabk

          Just kidding! A parody of what scientology posted about Going Clear. I went to the Minions movie instead.

      • jazzlover

        Seriously, I’m gonna need to see her hands πŸ˜‰

        • noseinabk

          Hey! I was holding the popcorn. (^_-)

          • jazzlover

            And yet I see no evidence of so much as a kernel having met your lips πŸ˜‰

        • Cedilla

          Is that Schumer?
          Ha.

      • scottmercer

        $56 million opening weekend. More than twice as much as the last one. πŸ™

    • Cedilla

      Augustine:

      “Given his movie star power to censor reporters, Tom Cruise is getting a free pass on Scientology, his master race status, and Hubbard’s call for a genocide against non-Scientologists.
      All of this is being swept under the carpet.
      What is being celebrated is Tom Cruise’s stunt ride on Airbus A400M.”

      and Hubbard’s call for a genocide against non-Scientologists.

      • jazzlover

        A sign that all is right with the world: “hey, it’s only genocide”

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I really wish the “master race” theme running through scientology would get more public press. Although I can’t imagine there are many non-scilons left who think this cult is harmless, I don’t think the average person fully appreciates the level of misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, and racism that runs through the core of it (and I judge this mostly based on my FB friends, who are alternately bored with and horrified by my frequent scilon-related posts). There’s a reason Germany has fought so hard against scientology. I would like to see it fully outed for the fundamentalist space nazi doomsday cult it really is a heart.

    • Robert Hammond

      Excellent. Shared on Twitter.

    • Doc M

      Great article

  • Robert Hammond
    • Robert Hammond

      "It’s Time to Start Liking #TomCruise Again?" Garbage. Not until he blows the evil cult of @Scientology http://t.co/kT58JoZb6A via @vulture— Mark Ebner (@MarkEbner59) August 3, 2015

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Gotta love Ebner!

    • jazzlover

      I swear to God, if I’m around in 100 years and I hear some mentally 16 year old journalist call Cruise “America’s last great movie star”, I’m gonna be forced to break something πŸ˜‰

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Oh brother. When the premise is based on Amy Nichols hagiography, you know the piece is going to end up seriously off-kilter.

      There is one good paragraph:
      There was something about Tom Cruise’s…well, Tom Cruise-ness that felt like it needed to be brought down a peg. It’s a combination of that aforementioned confidence, that eager-beaver quality, but also a kind of insincerity. It’s a weird mix: Here’s a guy who’s giving 150 percent, and yet you’re not sure if he means any of it. He’s a true believer, but he’s a very deliberate, calculating one. Unlike, say, Matthew McConaughey. who if anything can sometimes seem too sincere, too un-self-aware, Cruise always sounds as if he’s sticking to an inner script.

      Insincere? Deliberate? Calculating? Sticking to an inner script? Yep, that would be the Scientology Communication Tech in full flower.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      No.

    • scottmercer

      I’ll double down with “no effing way.” (Almost tempted to sign up with Vulture to smack them down…but, eh. It’s silly, It’s a just an anti-backlash backlash.)

  • Tom Cruise is the Leader of Anonymous.

    • Matt in Atlanta

      Being the leader of a passΓ©’ internet group from years ago suits him.

  • Vaquera

    Because it’s the mood I’m in tonight.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efVPIWl8lbw

    • Veronica
      • Susan_Qbird_Poche

        Oooo – I love this cover.

        • Kay

          Hey Qbird: Has that troll been trolling you again? Or has he/she disappeared for awhile?

          • Susan_Qbird_Poche

            I think it was the other way around. I’m the Off Topic Troll here & he was messin’ ’round on my turf. Did you listen to Tory’s talk about trolls? If it is at all possible, don’t talk to them. That’s what kills them off. Apparently, I killed Gon off by addressing his points as valid & interesting (off topic, but interesting nonetheless)… and also just seeing his humanity… although he made off like I was just imaging things.
            It was a he.

            • Missionary Kid

              Kill them with kindness.

            • Kay

              ITA

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Hi Kid. I kinda don’t believe in trolls… I just think some people want to talk & be heard… listened to. Gon was not mean & nasty (like Lifter – now he was creepy rotten). I turned into an awful troll-like person with him – spat back his shit & just kept at him. Made me feel stupid & icky. So lesson learned. I do not will to attack others. period.

            • Missionary Kid

              Gon was subtle enough to get all of us going and responding to him or her. Ultimately, though, when they refused to look at any sources we cited I decided that they really were a troll. I’ve seen that behavior in trolls before. This one was more sophisticated than many of the recent troubles we’ve had.

              A characteristic of trolls is that they either refuse to read any entheta or they dismiss any evidence out of hand.

            • Kay

              …and they praise Tom Cruise

            • Mockingbird

              All hail Tom “fucked anything that moved” Cruise. He ruthlessly put in ethics on himself by breaking up a family for his convenience – allegedly. IF and I cannot personally confirm this but if all of the accusations against Cruise are entirely true he has serious abuse to answer for . And Hubbard and Miscavige cannot absolve him – that is something he likely needs to learn .

            • Kay

              So true….loved your first sentence btw, that part of him also bugs me, particularly when his niece ends up being thrown out for just making out with someone. He professes to put “ethics ruthlessly on himself” as if that is going to contribute to anything or help anyone, while he participates in human trafficking and child labor law violations. Evidently he sees no conflict there. I think he’s in so deep, and is so deeply flawed in his thinking that I don’t think he will ever see CoS for what it really is. How he will end up will be interesting to see.

            • Mockingbird

              Yes , you got the contradiction between the reports of his cruel pretense of infallible moral superiority and his own decades of banging any willing female partner – despite his being married at the time or not.

              He comes across as having the classic narcissistic trait of pretending to be highly moral and fiercely condemning others even unfairly while personally being highly flawed. Narcissists stereotypically deny their own flaws and project ruthlessly onto others , whether innocent or guilty.

            • Mockingbird

              Gon brought up issues but if presented a lot of strong refutation plainly ignored it . And tried to misrepresent our comments to drive a wedge between exes and never ins . In my opinion Gon whether OSA , indie or just a cruel never in had one goal : trolling .

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              understood, Mockingbird.

            • Kay

              Yes I remember that you tried to treat him with respect and get him to talk, but apparently he was not responding to that. I haven’t listened to Tory’s talk about trolls, I will pull that up. I usually ignore, but once in awhile I get a tad annoyed and respond when I probably shouldn’t, which is what they want.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              exactly.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              I don’t know, it’s weird Kay. I do tend to talk to trolls. Not always, but it’s an everyday thing here in the bunker to just talk to each other… say what’s on your mind… ask a question or make a statement & then if need be, back it up. So sometimes I guess I trolls the trolls. If that’s how one chooses to look at it. Always wondering who they are & why they post. It is interesting to me. To endeavor to communicate in this forum. You never know what someone has to offer in terms of experience.

  • Eclipse-girl

    I am not looking and I dont care :p

    Its reminder time.

    Please click the heart at the top pf the comments

    Please flag these CL ads.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Otherwise have a good night in the Bunker

  • Robert Ramsay

    Could a non scientologist be held to the same arbitration process to
    reclaim funds for courses not taken for a deceased parent ?

    • Most likely not. Them funds are “fixed donations”.

      • jazzlover

        So, when it suits them, they get all “legal-like” with classification of funds? That’s ironic at best πŸ™‚

      • noseinabk

        Not long ago Tony wrote about someone trying to get a refund after his father died. I remember they hired an attorney but I don’t remember enough to look up the post.

        • Can you help solve this odd Scientology financial mystery? February 26, 2015, Tony Ortega, Underground Bunker

          • noseinabk

            πŸ™‚ Thank you.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Nose ~ what page do you show in Dianetics, when someone wants to buy the book?

            • noseinabk

              I can assure you that if I was to sell a Scientology book it would be the History of Man
              Then I would know that I was at least giving someone a good laugh.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              It was not you who worked in a book store & when people come up to buy the book, pointed out a specific page — which usually ended the sale? That ol’ fucktard’s words…. yeesh! [thought it was you]

            • noseinabk

              Nope. Good lord. I thought you were accusing me of being a clam!

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              oh crap. NO Noseinabk NO! You & me go way way back. I trust you.
              You live in the country side with foxes & flowers & such! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c01380bd88dce754c503a63d126378181c734dfe3cdbfa06e67cf7e0c1293535.jpg

            • noseinabk

              Crap. You just made me wake up my husband with my suppressed giggles. Now you owe me by telling us the best super secret fishing spot on the east coast. Cape Charles is ours so don’t bother to hide that one. πŸ™‚

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Georges Bank, out of Gloucester, for Cod & Pollack…. Oooo & sharks, all kinds, Makos & Blue Dogs & Howdy’s favorites of course, the great whites! I don’t fish the big water anymore, Nose. It’s inland lakes & rivers for me now, using itty-bitty rods & reels. My commercial fishing buddies say I fish with buggy whips now! ha!

            • noseinabk

              Aahhh. We go for the rock fish in Maryland and the flounder in VA. Later in summer the guys go for the Drum. Flounder and croakers are my are my favorite to fish for when we go with the kids.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Always take a kid fishing if you can. Fishing is fun.
              Gotcha fine. You be small craft sport fishing mostly staying close to the land (just in case)… day trippin’ upon the Sea! Big water, oh yes.
              Gotta google this rock fish.
              hmmm, looks to be what I know of as a striper. ?
              First fish I ever caught with my grandpa was a croaker, Nose!
              Sweet.

            • Kay

              I LOVE that bird….have no idea whatsoever what it is, but love it nonetheless. It’s wearing a “fascinator” on it’s head. Maybe it’s british. πŸ™‚

            • scottmercer

              The only Hubbard book I have ever tried to read (other than the deconstructive series of Dianetics etc. here on The Bunker) is Battlefield Earth. I admit, I was curious and was a teenager. This was not too long after it came out. I read a few chapters and dropped it. The writing was mediocre.

            • noseinabk

              BTW. I am a never in so your question is odd.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Nose – someone here worked in a book store. When people came up with Dianetics to buy and asked, “What do you think of this book?” They pointed out a very specific page & said, “Just read this [page #]”
              And they never bought the book! I thought it was you. I am mistaken. That’s all right. I may be able to find who it was on my old computer.
              sorry Boo – I thought it was you. πŸ˜›

        • Robert Eckert

          This is the guy.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I would assume the deceased parent could ask for them back in the next lifetime…

  • Robert Eckert

    O/T, a post I liked on Raw Story:
    Greybeard β€’ an hour ago

    Fox News debate moderator:

    “Remember where you are. This is Thunderdome. Death is listening, and will take the first one that screams. Thunderdome’s simple. Get to the weapons. Use them any way you can. I know you won’t break the rules. There aren’t any.”

  • Meme time

    • noseinabk

      The dash cam video you posted long ago is a heartwarming example. (I would post it but links are not working so well on my tablet)

      • What was it?

        • noseinabk

          The dash cam of people helping others cross the street or move cars. I think it was in Russia.

    • Missionary Kid

      In that case, $cientology owes the world a lot of money.

  • Jim Gideon Cherkas

    I think this is Scientology is chance to pay them off because there under the microscope. I bet they’re going to have a gag order before they give any money out so probably make the Garcias never mention Scientology again

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      That is a possibility. We shall see.

      (And welcome back. Don’t be a stranger!)

    • Doc M

      A good possibility, how much is the suit again 400K?

  • Sarah James

    We should send that judge some books on the subject of Scientology.

    • Jimmy3

      One of the perks of being a Federal judge is having overly-ambitious law school brats clerking for you. They would have researched everything about Scientology, its case precedents, etc. I’m sure he was well-informed.

      It wasn’t a strong case to begin with. I do want to see what the arbitration may be like, tho.

      • Sarah James

        IRS should be proud.
        Scientology should be required to video the arbitration for the Public and the IRS. Ahh, the sh*ts and giggles yet to be witnessed…

  • noseinabk

    Vaqueras post reminded me of one of my favorite albums that I like to play when no one is home and I am cleaning and over dramatically singing along. And it is Howdy approved.
    Gnight bunkerites.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTIJKaivBY

  • Kay

    OK…I just logged on, and haven’t read the comments yet but I must say that that letter from Nancy Cartwright made me want to BARF. It is so offensive that she is bringing up the concept of “family” in the context of recruiting for Scientology. I need to go take an anti-emetic immediately.

    • scottmercer

      Whatever good is in her life is due to the fact that she has some talent and latched on to a highly successful TV show (longest running in history) whose popularity has very little to do with her in particular (She’s not even recognizable in public to most people). Scientology is riding her coattails, not the other way around.

      • Kay

        I agree…and truly, she was extremely lucky to land that gig. I think it was being in the right place at the right time with the right voice. There is some talent there, but frankly she is no Meryl Streep, but rather a one-note voice over actress. I think had there been no Bart Simpson she would not have done much in the industry. Unfortunately, she has parlayed her high paying job into becoming a high level scientologist and their poster girl, and to give them millions. She could have used that money to vaccinate hundreds of thousands of kids in third world countries instead. I guess it’s her business where she donates, but donations usually refer to charity, not furthering the cause of human suffering.

    • jazzlover

      Take 3 diazepam and call us in the morning πŸ˜‰

      • Kay

        Only 3 ?

        • jazzlover

          Take it easy there, lady πŸ™‚ More than 3 and yo might not be able to get back to us until Wednesday πŸ˜‰

          • Kay

            So true…actually I’m a lightweight…I probably would be out for a week.

  • Kay

    Here’s a visual aid for how I feel. (see post below)
    https://youtu.be/gkefG2lCbqA

    • Kay

      On second thought..this IS a pretty gross video…sorry if that gives you guys bad dreams. :-0
      I just get so sick (literally) of these celebrity scios….

  • Jimmy3
    • Kay

      Most excellent Monsieur Jimmmeeeeee…..I am grooving to this as I am typing. πŸ™‚

    • noseinabk

      Gaaaahhhh. It plays Over the Rainbow by IZ next. Shut up you Guys! I gotta go to bed!

    • jazzlover

      My deepest gratitude for not posting the official theme song for Jamaican tourism πŸ˜‰

      • Don’t mock the Marley. He’s not responsible for what people twist his music into.

        • jazzlover

          Hey no mockin’ the Marley! More mocking my lack of desire to only hear THAT song over and over again at the expense of hearing others.

          Don’t hurt me πŸ˜‰

  • Lady Squash

    Had an epiphany today and realized that SCN is a mash-up of Freudian psychology; hypnotism, mind control, occultism, socially deviant and destructive behaviors, past life regression therapy and even, dare I say it, a few interesting ideas.

    • Jimmy3

      What are the interesting ideas?

      • scottmercer

        The creative song stylings of one Arp Cola?

      • jazzlover

        You’re born, you avoid taxes, then you die.

    • Missionary Kid

      The basic underlying principle behind the ideas in $cientology is to extract money from the suckers. The mashup is done to make things as confusing as possible, which aids in the hypnotism oF people “studying” Scientology..

      The Byzantine structure of the mystery sandwich is created so that more layers can be at could be added, making the student think that they are gaining new knowledge not seen before.

      • Mockingbird

        In my opinion the layers add to the amount of information to sell as enlightenment to defraud people. That they are contradictory helps to create cognitive dissonance which further confuses the victim increasing anxiety which increases suggestibility. By thoroughly enough obliterating understanding on issues by issue Hubbard induces a pattern of confusion then submission to his control to evade the confusion then via lies temporary relief in the conscious mind. By reverting to a blind trust in Hubbard’s authority the victim goes into trance logic . In that state contradictions are consciously ignored .

        • Missionary Kid

          You put it better than I did. Thank you.

          • Mockingbird

            Thank you for saying that but the important thing is that each individual thoroughly develop their own understanding. Especially if they are a recovering Scientologist or seek to help ex cult members effectively.

            Far more important than parroting myself or Jon Atack or Arnie Lerma or even Robert Jay Lifton or Margaret Singer is developing personal well considered ideas. Having our own understanding is even more important than being in agreement . Using critical and independent thinking to develop your own understanding is in fact the opposite of Scientology. So it is particularly vital for ex Scientologists.

            • Missionary Kid

              Again, well put.

              As individuals we perceive things individually. We have to seek our own solutions, especially after having thoughts and feelings imposed on us that are counter to our own by a group or cult.

              My theory is that we can only hear something until we are ready to. The thought stopping process is really strong in, particularly, fundamentalist groups, and both $cientology and the way I was raised have that in common. It took me years to finally question some of the underlying conceptsI was raised with. I could only do that when my mind was ready.

              Steve Hassan’s background is in the Moonies, but his experience and knowledge has enabled him to see the commonality that cults share. I hope that I have learned enough from exes to see my background as clearly.

            • Mockingbird

              You are correct. If you want to explore what influenced you , perhaps without your full consent I suggest examining Lifton’s criteria for thought reform and Hassan’s BITE model and Singer’s model as well. Additionally logical fallacies tremendously help thought stopping. They become habit and bypass critical and independent thinking. And loaded language serves the same function also.

              You may have already considered these ideas but hopefully any others who have not will be pointed in a helpful direction if they read this. I hope at some point you choose your own ideas entirely , granted that may be hopelessly idealistic. But perhaps you can be at peace with the past and sufficiently free from influence to be content . That is not perfect but may be the most we can attain.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll have to admit that I haven’t studied Hassan and Singer much, but I’m pretty much at peace with my background and myself at 70. I can still learn and improve.

              Next Saturday, I’m going to hear Hassan at the Center for Inquiry in L.A.

            • Mockingbird

              Excellent. Your being content is obviously crucially important. I consider Man’s Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl to be profound in its consideration of survival and seeking meaning in a life filled with suffering and injustice. If you have read it you know his ideas . If not I recommend it and it is a very short and easy read. Obviously his experiences in the Nazi death camps are quite different from our own in Scientology or childhood religious indoctrination. But we all seek freedom and meaning in a context that is common to men and women of all backgrounds.

            • Missionary Kid

              We all do seek our own personal freedom. $cientology uses that yearning to lure people into their traps, then slowly redefining freedom as a person becomes involved.

      • Mockingbird

        May I ask if you are an ex Scientologist ?

        • Missionary Kid

          Sure. I’m not. I come from a fundamentalist Christian background. They engage in a measure of thought stoppingand disbelief of evidence like $cientology. They also engage in a fair amount of hypocrisy, but they usually aren’t involved with any form of disconnection.

          Since my parents were missionaries, from a very young age I was indoctrinated in their beliefs. It has taken me decades to throw off much of the programming. I hope that has given me an understanding of some of the problems that $cientologists face when they leave.

          I also have had some experience, quite peripheral, with Dianetics and $cientology spanning over 55+ years.

          • Mockingbird

            55 years is a long time. I make a point of not attacking religion . I attack Scientology. If one wants to understand influence much of the information used to dissect Scientology can help to understand other methods of influence and indoctrination. The indoctrination of children is often the most effective and longstanding.

            It is difficult to judge indoctrination by parents who sincerely believe in what they pass down. They may feel they are helping their children. But as an adult you have every right to doubt , question , modify reject or accept any philosophy or religion.

            • Missionary Kid

              My attitude is that anyone can believe anything they want and I will leave them alone unless they try to impose their beliefs on others or their actions harm other people. For all I care, if standing in the middle of the road naked and jumping up and down, dumping bat guano on your head floats your boat, then great, as long as you don’t bother traffic or scare the children.

              When I talk to people about religion I can only cite my own experience. I fully realize that my parents were only trying to do what they thought was best for me.

              I also understand that you cannot argue belief. Belief and evidence are in totally different spheres.

              While I am uncomfortable with the cultural imperialism that my parents engaged in, I can also see that they did a lot of good and we’re trying to help people.

            • Mockingbird

              I hope your relationship with them has been positive. You convey well developed personal beliefs and general tolerance which I strongly encourage. I hope whatever impact being exposed to missionary work has had has not lessened your freedom or enjoyment of life.

            • Missionary Kid

              My relationship with my parents was mixed. It wasn’t the missionary work that bothered me, it was the strictures of the religion, which was heightened by the fact that my dad was a preacher. It gave his pronouncements as a parent additional force. If I disobeyed, it wasn’t just disobeying my dad, it was also, I felt at times, like I was disobeying god.

              I was lucky that my parents left me and returned to Taiwan when I graduated from high school. I got to go away to college and live my own life. My parents were also the age of my friends’ grandparents, and because they had been out of the US for so long, I was raised much like someone would be raised in the ’30s and ’40s, not like the 50s and early 60s, when I was actually growing up.

              After ending their career as missionaries, they came back to the US, and I made it a point not to get into any religious discussions with my father. I didn’t challenge him, even though he tried to be provocative. Practically on his death bed at 70, he was still trying to save me.

              There was never even a threat of disconnection for believing differently.

    • Mockingbird

      I think understanding Hubbard plagiarized it all is important but even more important is understanding he ALWAYS lied pathologically and intended to enslave people. NEVER to help or free them .

      • Lady Squash

        Thank you for publishing Hubbard’s Affirmations. I have seen them before, but reading them along with notes from the psychiatrist blew me away. Thank you.

        • Mockingbird

          Thanks. I hope seeing the affirmations in this context helps to bring Hubbard down to earth. Particularly in the minds of Scientologists. I hope sharing many critical ideas regarding Hubbard can reduce his authority and influence in other’s minds.

    • Mockingbird

      The simplest description I have to date on this is probably at the following post .

      Why Hubbard never claimed OT feats and the rock bottom basis of Scientology
      http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/02/mockingbirds-nest-why-hubbard-never.html

      • jazzlover

        It’s quite the maze, isn’t it? I’m certainly no expert, and I could be wrong, but at least a part of me believes that Hubbard inadvertently gamed the mind’s propensity to utilize defense mechanisms. “I know you’re lying to me and it makes me feel uncomfortable (read: gives me the creeps), but I’m gonna pretend it didn’t happen so that I can feel better”. I know it’s a complicated hodgepodge, but masking our true feelings sets us up to fall victim to all sorts deceit.

        • Mockingbird

          I think he understood some of what he did but not the entirety. That is a very unsatisfactory answer for most exes . They want either he completely understood it all or never had a clue but neither fits the evidence.

          He knew quite a bit which selected Hubbard quotes I use in my posts clearly demonstrates but he wished for a perfect mental enslavement method and had ultimately failed. His methods are spectacularly successful on a very , very miniscule percentage of people.

          But there is a tremendous juxtaposition. His methods might be the most self reinforcing thought reform program ever but the program only effectively enslaves less than one percent of people who are initially exposed as adults . It is quite likely more effective on individuals indoctrinated from a young age . Most likely if severely indoctrinated from birth and raised exclusively in the cult.

          Scientology like any substantial in depth critical examination of influence involves degrees of depth. It involves nudges and pushes , thousands and thousands. Not black and white answers EVER.

          Similarly Hubbard understood parts of what he did but never the entire subject .

          • jazzlover

            I think my confusion lies mostly in areas of purpose, time and a doubt that he was entirely capable of devising anything to these levels. I know that he constantly made changes on the fly to meet his own ends at any point in time. I don’t mean to marginalize or minimize the experiences of any ex. But using reason, and my perspective (which is wholly informed by being a never-in), on a practical level it is difficult to imagine anyone wanting to dedicate 100% of their time to formulating such a grand plan. For me, at the end of the day, even if I want to have all the money in the world, I’d want to have some time to spend it. Was he just greedy, a megalomaniac, a sadist, pure evil, seriously demented? Is he an exact carbon copy of all the others who have led cults throughout time? Is there a type? As you point out, there are many layers here which make the scenario so dynamic that someone would literally have to spend thousands of hours before being able to reach a conclusion that would only come close to approximating the real truth.

            • Mockingbird

              I early in my Scientology indoctrination realized that if this was all fake Hubbard had to work relentlessly for decades. I thought it was unfathomable. There is an error I made. A crucial error many people make when considering others. A small percentage of people are considered to be sociopathic. That for simplicity includes narcissists, malignant narcissists, psychopaths etc. .

              These individuals have traits the rest of us lack. When we fail to understand that we entirely miss what we are dealing with. Sociopaths naturally pathologically lie . They tell lies 180 degrees from the truth to confuse and control others. Habitually. They utilize psychological defense mechanisms in ways and to extremes to which the rest of us never contemplate. A normal person for example if anxious or threatened may be defensive but may calm down and apologize if they were too insulting or cruel. A normal person can to some degree recognize flaws in their own behavior or feel remorse that is based on empathy, compassion and humility.

              Hubbard in my opinion naturally constantly projected and to safely do this he lied constantly. He was driven to lie. That was a point I missed and so I trusted him . A fundamental error in judgment.

              I want to be clear – his mental illness drove him to behave as he did . Not the technology he plagiarized. The methods he stole were extensive , from many schools of influence. With many names such as hypnotism , Crowley’s occultism, Hitler’s Nazism elements from psychology and propaganda and rhetoric . And many , many more . The amount was staggering but he felt he had no other choice . Obviously he did.

              Regarding cult leaders or more particularly cult founders being carbon copies I initially was quite hesitant to use a one size fits all model. However Margaret Singer and Robert Jay Lifton and Eric Hoffer and Daniel Shaw gave me much to consider . Additionally a tremendous wealth of information on sociopaths, narcissists and in particular malignant narcissists strongly convinced me there is more to the picture. Daniel Shaw calls the cult leaders a special type of malignant narcissist he calls a traumatic narcissist. They use trauma to subjugate others.

              Additionally I have found hundreds of descriptions of Hubbard fit these models – perfectly.

              He fits the sociopath or narcissist or guru model from Lifton or cult leader from Margaret Singer or any of several other similar concepts.

              To answer the are cult leaders the same question I say look at the evidence of the minds and behavior these individuals display. In my opinion from what I’ve seen the cult leaders have a tremendous amount of similarities in character and psychology.

              They have severe personality disorders and quite often the same disorders . They utterly lack compassion and humility. And they pathologically lie and pretend superiority and they use syncretic ( combined plagiarized ) doctrine. They try to use charisma and certainty . They see their ideas as infallible , all encompassing and of a higher ethical stature than all others. They have many other similarities to Scientology.

              I think you need a certain mindset to even consider being a cult leader . Being a cult leader requires not just willingness but desire to be such a person . That is why they seem to be the same – in many ways they are.

            • jazzlover

              Thank you so much, Mockingbird, for this detailed and obviously well considered and researched explanation. I’ve been fascinated by the “why’s” of human behavior for quite a while. You’ve given me much to think about in that regard — all things I hadn’t previously considered to the degree that you have. If I’m reading you correctly (and even I’m not completely certain that I am), the behavior of others which wreaks the kind of havoc encountered in Scientology and elsewhere is “naturally” unfathomable (without tons of research) to those of us who simply don’t have the capability (for any of a plethora of reasons) of behaving in a similar fashion. This may indeed explain a lot in terms of why the field of psychiatry has been so slow to develop relative to advances in physiology and medical science. Every doctor of the body can experience any ill that his patients can/do. By comparison, few (hopefully none) psychiatrists suffer firsthand from the ills that HIS patients can/do.

            • Mockingbird

              You got exactly what I meant. I know psychiatrists often suave trouble understanding patients subjective experiences .

              I plan on writing more on the incomprehensible aspects of Scientology for others.

              Without understanding basic ideas on sociopaths and ekements of influence and social psychology Scientology remains an inscrutable enigma . But with enough untangling and identifying of pieces that make it up it becomes entirely understandable and even very predictable .

              I plan on writing a serlies of posts specifically to address the incomprehensibility of Scientology . They will likely cover the hypocrisy and endless unneeded cruel abuse within Scientology . There is factually nothing ironic in Scientology once you understand its design and designer .

            • jazzlover

              At the risk of sounding completely ironic, you have gained a new follower πŸ˜‰ Thank you, again. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the subject πŸ™‚

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks . I will try to come up with something useful.

            • jazzlover

              I have no doubt πŸ™‚

            • ObsessedReader

              Good morning, Mockingbird. You have such an intuitive, intelligent way of analyzing and expressing your experiences and knowledge. You really should write a book, that writing style of yours would make it a bestseller!

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks so much. For the moment I am writing my blog and the odd comment here or at ESMB.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              This is the question that goes through my min, as a never-in as well… Certain things he disband said don’t point to someone that could get past himself at times to think up, in global terms, all of the overarching effects Scientology has on people. That said, I have a mother who is extremely intelligent but also very mentally ill and the manipulation and such my siblings and I grew up with over time, when looking from the outside, seem like she was someone who had thoroughly thought out mind-control, manipulation of self-esteem, etc. we’ve had therapists and psychiatrists say she could convince THEM the sky was actually pink, they way she was able to reason and manipulate. I think you both make such good points about what he borrowed and planned, but also based on my own experience, I feel like certain twisted minds innately understand ways to manipulate and exploit others even if they haven’t explicity studied or mapped out the long-term effects of those things. And I do feel that in some sense, giving LRH the God-like ability to be this evil mastermind trying to take over the world (now I’m thinking of Pinky and The Brain! Lol) is still part and parcel of having spent years believing in his near God-hood and maybe gives him more credit than he deserves.

            • jazzlover

              It is certainly a hard to decipher conundrum. Don’t take my word for it though. I think Mockingbird’s got the “real stuff” πŸ™‚

      • Lady Squash

        “Scientology is a confusing term as it sounds like science and technology combined but is promoted as an applied religious philosophy but that is a confusing way to say a religion as all religions in fact fit that definition if you break it down.”

        I remember early on–some thirty years ago–Jack, a mission holder in Reno Nevada, yelling at me “You don’t even know what Scientology means.” And I didn’t. The definition never made sense to me. I could eventually parrot it, but it never really set well with me.

        I looked up “cult” the other day on Wikipedia and thought bingo, that’s it exactly: “a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.” Yup, that’s Scientology–a socially deviant activity, pretending to be a religion.

        Anyway, thank you for your blog. Lots of interesting stuff. You woke up fast. And you seem to be getting over it fast. Kudos (I’m not going to say “well done”.)

        • Mockingbird

          Thanks . You didn’t even say very well done , very good indicators !!

          How silly to have so many phrases Hubbard used. I am always glad to hear of anyone benefiting from my lil’ blog. A lot of people have helped me to escape Scientology. Many of them are associated with the Underground Bunker and so I hope to make an effort to return the favor to a degree.

          If anything I wrote helps feel free to comment or let me know. It certainly makes the time and effort feel worth it .

  • Lady Squash

    I am truly sorry the Garcia’s lost this last round. But who knows, if they can go into arbitration with an attorney and video camera, things could get very interesting. Wishing you all the Best. Game’s not over yet.

  • Frodis73

    OT: I know there are a lot of music fans that hang here at the Bunker, so I just had to share this. I finally got to see the documentary ‘The Wrecking Crew’ which is about all the amazing session musicians that are responsible for all, okay most, of the great music from the 50’s-70’s. Add it to your must see list if you love flicks about music. It was made by Tommy Todesco’s son with so much love and respect and it really comes through. I can’t say enough good things about it. Lol.
    It just showed up on Netflix over the weekend for those interested. .
    G’night gang.
    https://youtu.be/SX5BCgmr7tg

    • Kay

      I will sooo watch this. Thanks for posting this. πŸ™‚

    • Missionary Kid

      Didn’t Motown also have a group of session musicians that really added to their music?

    • Missionary Kid

      The Swampers, from Muscle Shoals Alabama AKA, the Mussel Shoals Rhythm Section were also a fantastic rhythm section backing up groups like Lynyrd Skynerd and people like Aretha Franklin, Joe Cocker. Skynyrd paid tribute to them in “Sweet Home Alabama.”

      • stanrogers

        Can’t forget the Stax crew, either – or “Booker T. and the M.G.’s”, as they were known when not backing someone else.

        • richelieu jr

          Stan, finally I have someone who will be able to appreciate this!

          I worked on a show for a while with (amongst other stellar musicians) Steve Cropper and Donald “Duck” Dunn!

          Not a great show by any measure, but it will always hold a great place in my memory for the fact that I got to meet those guys and hear them play every night! Those Stax/Volts cats absolutley crushed!

          • stanrogers

            I’d call that awesome; it’s the sort of thing that would stick with me, for sure!

            • richelieu jr

              Yup!
              πŸ™‚

              ——————————

              Γ‰tablissement d’enseignement supΓ©rieur technique privΓ©

  • Missionary Kid

    I don’t believe that we are going to radically slow down attendance to a Tom Cruise movie that is part of a franchise like Mission Impossible. However, the slow drip of information about cruises activities is slowly seeping into the public consciousness.

    The backers of his movies are not stupid. They have gone to great links to use dIversionary and different means of publicity than usual to promote the film. You’ll note that they used the kid who was in Jerry Maguire as well as Simon Pegg and others to attest to Tom Cruise’s niceness. The backers do not want to lose any money and it seems that they are having to spend more and more money in order to promote his films.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the reviews talk about Cruise doing stunts, then they focus on the job the director and the other supporting cast did. He is not the focus of their review.

    Cruise supposedly looks like he’s in excellent shape, however, he is getting older and older all the time, and he has burned his bridges with Spielberg among others. That makes him more dependent on his cast mates for the excitement. Apparently he has not made the effort to try making a straight dramatic movie for some time. He took chances when he was married to Nicole. Since then, correct me if I’m wrong, he has not taken chances.

    That does not bode well for his career because as he gets older, he will not be able to make the audience to believe someone of his age could actually do what he seems to be doing in action films.

    Film franchises run their course. The longest running one is the James Bond series. Of course, it has had a number of actors as James Bond. Sylvester Stallone has had a long run with his Rocky series, but it has become a joke.

    Cruise is no Archie Leach. (Carey Grant). He’s not known for comedy. He’s not finished, but the awareness of the evil cult he supports is eroding his popularity.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      It’s interesting that of the four production companies involved with MI:5, one is Tom’s (TC Productions) and one is Chinese (Alibaba Pictiures). As for comedies, did you see his performance in “Rock of Ages”? πŸ™

      • Missionary Kid

        I did not see Rock of Ages. I take it that it was an unintentional comedy.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          TC as a sexy Axl Rose/Danzig type? No, just no!

        • sugarplumfairy

          He wasn’t all that awful, which is what I’d expected after reading reviews.. There was a scary bad, almost unbearable sex scene, but that’s the only thing that I remember not liking about his performance..

    • Mockingbird

      I think you bring up a great point. As Travolta, Cruise and Miscavige age and it cannot be hidden any longer it will help to wake up cult members. Especially Miscavige.

      When he cannot hide health problems and age related issues that will make him have to either go into hiding as Hubbard did or pick a new public face . Quite unlikely for him. Cruise has not developed his dramatic acting and will likely flounder when he cannot pretend physical perfection.

      Travolta already is in trouble. He cannot convincingly play a forty year old in excellent shape anymore. For many of the action, romantic and comedy roles out there he is not quite right. He can’t play the older mentor as he doesn’t convey wisdom.

      • Missionary Kid

        I believe that Travolta still has some acting chops. He still has a lot of goodwill from his Saturday Night Fever, Urban Cowboy, and other roles. I think he has the ability to play an older, wiser person. Whether or not he will get the chance is something else.

        Cruise, on the other hand, hasn’t pushed himself in a long time. He is able to feed off a co-star’s abilities, as he did in Rainman, but that was long ago in Hollywood years.

        Both depend on a fan base that is aging rapidly, and who aren’t so aware of their earlier work.

        • Mockingbird

          I think Travolta is losing his fans . His latest film The Forger bombed . It made no money and got a historically poor rotten tomatoes rating. Critics and fans hated it . I think he and Cruise being linked so strongly to Scientology after Going Clear and an endless barrage of negative press is finally taking a toll.

          Millions of people don’t see Scientology as odd but instead now as criminal and that bothers them . And the antics of Kirstie “middle finger flying” and Jenna “AIDS is a state of mind ” and Danny “fuck you” are having a cumulative effect. People see Scientologists as narcissists and that is good for critics.

          • Missionary Kid

            I had The Forger offered to me on satellite early on, and I thought I’d take a bullet for the Bunker and watch it so I could review it. It was so bad that I only made through the first 20 minutes of it, and couldn’t stand it. Travolta wasn’t bad. The movie was, from the writing to the directing and the final cut. I’m sure his career took a hit from it.

            I agree that the general public attitude towards $cientology has changed from weird to downright nasty, but Kirstie, Jenna, and Danny’s antics aren’t well publicized to the general public. Cruise, however, has done the most damage to his image and $cientology, especially with his arrogance and ignorance with Matt Lauer, and getting cut off at the knees by Katie. I believe his divorce from Nichole has done a lot of damage down under.

            Cruise still has some clout in Hollywood, and more overseas but while nobody asks him anything about $cientology because of his clout, the journalists are getting restless. His movies haven’t lost money…yet.

    • Susan black

      And he’s no Archie Goodwin either:)

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      “The backers do not want to lose any money and it seems that they are
      having to spend more and more money in order to promote his films.”

      “Apparently he has not made the effort to try making a straight dramatic movie for some time.”

      I would be curious to know if he hasn’t done ‘straight damatic movies for some time’ because he declines what is offered, or because he is no longer considered for these roles.

      • richelieu jr

        He doesn’t have to take what is ‘offered’ at all, he has his own production company and many people searching for and creating projects just for him.

    • Tory Christman

      Here is a bit more on the Cruise/Spielberg situation: http://scientomogy.blogspot.com/2005/07/steven-spielberg-will-not-be-working.html

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Mornin’…

    • B4you

      Ha ha! I know the feeling πŸ™‚

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Typical Monday morning. Breakfast with Tony.
        What!!!

        • B4you

          That man looks exhausted, thinking OMG! what have i done, this is insane and i canΒ΄t get up! πŸ™‚

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Monday, 03 August 2015

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Google doc is still giving us grief! πŸ™
    Thank you to all the Red-Xers, flaggers and complainers., you have also shown that It can be
    done
    .
    Check the SpamTrack for complaint opportunities.

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-120#post-2533632

    Keep the vulnerable and depressed away from co$, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Shione by Thienbao enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/16723321526/in/set-72157642802079293

  • 0tessa

    ‘…now the couple faces the real possibility of Scientology’s aberration.’
    (Must be a Freudian misreading on my part)

  • Tory Christman

    Tony…..there must be SOME way the Garcias can avoid $cientology’s Arbitration! As I’ve posted here on the Bunker before: I went through $cientology’s arbitration AND we “Won”. We “won” $150,000 between my then husband and his partner.
    HOWEVER, due to the “boss”, Bill Bowen, having zipped off to FLAG, I called there to find out, the next day (after our “win”…having been DONE with Rosser Cole, a Scientology “OT” and an attorney. I was told: “This was NOT a business matter…my husband needed to come to FLAG if he wanted to sort out this ‘PERSONAL’ (no longer business, which it totally was) Matter”. (<<< TOTAL BULLSHIT!)

    I reminded the person I was speaking with that we did this TOTALLY BY THE ARBITRATION POLICY, written by L Ron Hubbard.

    The response was utterly flooring, for me, and truly helped BEGIN my waking UP.

    "That Policy (The arbitration policy) was Cancelled LAST NIGHT."

    Suddenly I remembered seeing at Flag that the TOP donators were "Craig and Sally Jensen".
    Second? "Bill and Ruth Bowen".

    As I've posted, along with my utter shock was the realization …for the very first time….that someone
    COULD PAY Off David Miscavige and get a "Policy" CANCELLED!

    If they need an affidavit about this, I'd be happy to do it. $cientology PROVED to us ….their own
    "Arbitration process" they are pushing on the Garcias now, CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST THEM.

    My love to all here …..
    Tory Christman
    Burbank, CA

    • Mockingbird

      This is a very important story . Thanks for telling us Tory. You are simply the best.

      • Tory Christman

        Thanks, Mockingbird! I’ve told it before….in regards to the Garcias…but I think at the time it was lost in the shuffle. I hope they fight this still. Even though “C of $” has manipulated this to have things done their way….this is like asking a black person to be arbitrated by the KKK.

        • Mockingbird

          Ouch , apt comparison.

          • Tory Christman

            I speak from experience on this one.

        • Tory Christman

          Here’s my suggestion to ALL: Let’s all sign a pack: Either Give the Garcia’s their FAIR TURN IN COURT,……..OR WE SHALL ALL (any and all who can) DEMAND INTEREST ON THE $$$ C OF $ is stealing from us! (This has to do with $$$ on account).

          Hey….they are not giving you your $$$ back, anyways. May was well use it for s/t good. That can and should be a HUGE PR FLAP (upset to C of $)…and I think we could get much media out of it, too, which media SHOULD be exposing these crimes of theirs. What do you all think? Anyone w/ $$$ “on account” who cannot get it back here?

  • They will record it, but not allow you to record it. It’s a rigged system, so good luck.