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TONIGHT: Nancy Many's Story of Scientology Spying and Interrogation on ID at 10 PM

Nancy_Many_LooksTonight is the night we move into a new era: for the first time, a television network is putting on not just a story about some of Scientology’s worst abuses — spying on perceived enemies, degrading treatment of workers, splitting up families — but it’s being dramatized in a 1-hour show that pulls no punches.

We’ve seen the whole thing and can attest to the high production values and the respect with which the Investigation Discovery network and its new series “Dangerous Persuasions” is treating Nancy Many, who had one of the most remarkable careers in Scientology.

Let the live blogging begin!


UPDATE 9:05 PM — LESS THAN AN HOUR TO GO … and it looks like we have quite a few people in the comments already as we wait for the show to start.

Here in New York it’s a frigid night and we’re happy to be indoors. We have the ID network fired up on the big screen — it’s in HD on channel 723 on our Time Warner Cable system.

If you’re in Canada (where it’s airing on the History Channel on Friday night) or somewhere else in the world, you may be able to watch at ID’s website, as some of our commenters have pointed out. We’ll try to get more info on that soon.

And here’s a tip: set your Discus (under “discussion”) to “Newest” in order to see the latest comments about what we’re seeing on television.

9:30 PM — HALF HOUR TO GO … Answering some questions: Sorry, Tory, you can’t see the show here on the blog. We’re just “live-blogging” as folks watch the show on their televisions.

Has anyone definitely found a live feed online for those who can’t watch on television?

Oh, this is exciting.

9:40 PM — TWENTY MINUTES TO GO … And Nancy Many got this statement out of the church about tonight’s show…

You contacted us today concerning Nancy Many’s upcoming fictional film. My apologies for not getting back to you earlier.

Nancy Many is attempting to promote her self-published book in which she gives a fictional account of her time in the Church. Ms. Many was removed from her staff position in the Church in 1979. In 1995, after having been off Church staff for 13 years, she suffered a mental breakdown. She admitted that she wrote her book as part of her psychiatric treatment. As far as we know she is still getting this psychiatric treatment.

She has been acting as a source of misinformation ever since. Ms. Many has no current information on the Scientology religion, its parishioners and humanitarian programs.

Anyone wanting to know about the Scientology religion should visit

That’s from Karin Pouw, perhaps the most quotable church spokeswoman of all time. We do love her work.

9:50 PM — TEN MINUTES TO GO … Hey, this ID network is kind of spooky.


VIEWER ADVISORY: This is Nancy Many’s Story — In her own words

Wow, this looks good on the big screen. Brighter and sharper than the version I was sent for my laptop.

FIRST PART Boston 1971 — Nancy gets sucked in.

Doesn’t Nancy look great?

Don’t do it, Nancy! Run! Run!

“All the books were by one author.” THAT WAS YOUR FIRST CLUE, NANCY!

THE E-METER! Hey, that’s a great old model, isn’t it?


“I loved it.” Yes, the hook was sunk deep, like in so many cases.

“Hubbard didn’t have a college degree and look how he’s doing.” Quick quiz for the oldtimers — in 1971, did Scientologists know that LRH didn’t have a college degree?


Hey, that guy doesn’t look like he’s been living on only rice and beans.

Nancy sells, sells, sells, or stays up all night cleaning floors. “You worked from morning till night, seven days a week. That was my life.”


Spy for us, Nancy!

FIRST BREAK! Whew. This is going fast.

Did we tell you this thing was well done? OK, here comes Part 2

“She is now a spy for them.”

This is seriously the scariest segment, for me. She was taking home the personnel files of psychiatrists for the GO to copy. Amazing.

“You can do anything as long as it destroys an enemy of Scientology.”

P A U L E T T E C O O P E R !!!

Paulette: “They turned out so much worse than I thought.”

Uh-oh, Nancy lost Paulette!

Paulette, you look so good! She’s such a great interview.

NANCY GOES TO FLAG … This was in 1976, just a year after Hubbard and the Sea Org came ashore.

Sea Org love!

Nancy and Chris Many marry at Flag in 1976. And Nancy got pregnant that night!

The RPF! L. Ron Hubbard had started the RPF just a couple of years earlier while the armada was still at sea.

Uh-oh, a Messenger arrives! This is a great scene.

Nancy’s smirks at the thought of LRH as the next Messiah. How many other Sea Org members were let in on that aborted idea?



NANCY’S ON THE RPF AT FIVE MONTHS PREGNANT … 40 people living in that space. Yikes.

Life in the RPF. Muster. Rules. Call everyone “sir.” Never alone.

What a striking psychological effect — scrounging for food from leftovers of others. Now that is control.

Another form of disconnection — the way Sea Org members are cut off from other family, even when they’re still in good standing.

Nancy waddles through the parking garage, ashamed of her condition — pregnant, wearing a boiler suit. She was only 25 years old and had been in Scientology for 5 years. “This is the bottom of the bottom of the bottom.”

And yet, she still thinks Scientology is going to make the world a better place.

GETTING OUT OF THE RPF … Nancy waddles around 9 months pregnant, getting signatures. So she only spent about four months on the RPF. Today, people spend years on it.

Back to work at about $20 a week! And now on to… the CELEBRITY CENTRE!

Yvonne Gillham had started the Hollywood Celebrity Centre in the late 1960s. Now, Nancy was running it.

When I asked her for the name of a celebrity she worked with at the time, she mentioned … Jerry Seinfeld! (He took just the comm course.)


Here we go: Chris and Nancy facing another stint in the RPF. For no reason, Nancy says.

“For me, it was game over.”

Chris says, let’s go. Chills!

The mustard! Remember that, RPF victims! The mustard!

They take their son to a movie theater. Chris: “I had nothing outside the world of Scientology.”

ROUTING OUT? No, Nancy! Run!

Wow, they got off easy. Sinar Parman had to escape FIVE TIMES before he finally told them to forget their “routing out.”

Sounds like Nancy was working as a WISE consultant. A move up from the Sea Org, apparently.


NANCY FACES HER INTERROGATOR … I’ve talked to one other person who was sec-checked by this woman. But I forget her name now. Anyone know?

Six to 10 hours a day, for 10 days. Amazing.

“My mind had cracked.”


Nancy’s losing it after 10 days of intense sec-checking.

“She really was broken.” — Great statements from Chris. Together, their testimony is so powerful.

She’s going Type III! Throw her in the chain locker!

A group of Scientologists who considered that the leadership of SCientology had been taken over by the Marcabians with invisible machines — is she talking about Marty?

That was a little joke.

Nancy and her boy make a run for it!

Nancy getting strapped down on a gurney. This is DM’s favorite part.

“They broke her,” Chris says. Devastating.

Chris is ready to go! “I”m not alone anymore,” Nancy says.

“That was the beginning of our way out into the real world.”

“Scientology is all about money. It’s about power. It’s about control.”

Hey, those credits are too fast! Anyone catch the name of the woman who played Nancy?


Whew. I gotta get off that channel. Those other shows give me the willies. What’s Robert Osborne doing? Ah, TCM. All is right with the world.

Steven Hassan has been making some interesting observations. What’s your overall impression of the show, Steve?

Here in the bunker, we wondered if Nancy tended to blame herself too much for things that really were beyond her control.

Any other general assessments, gang?

We’re told that Janet Porter played Nancy. She did a good job!

AS FOR TOMORROW NIGHT — I have been fortunate enough to be invited to a local event celebrating the publication of a certain book here in NYC tomorrow night. So I may not be able to live-blog the NBC Rock Center show. But I will check my schedule on that. New story in the morning.

Thanks all for a great night!


Posted by Tony Ortega on January 16, 2013 at 10:35


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  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I just love that Nancy was honest about the fun part, the celebs, the excitement. I was never in that OSA realm and got to travel around and know some artists, but not the biggies. It’s true what she said about scientology trying to manipulate through assistants and the help and sci friends. In the late 60’s, all the 70’s and even in some of the very early 80’s, there was loose rules and you could still smile, sing, and swing.

    • Midwest Mom


      • In 1977 on the EPF in L.A., a lot of the new sea org members hooked up. I remember Howard Becker telling us that he didn’t care who you f***** or how long, but you better be able to study when study time came. That changed. Warrior probably has a copy of the issues that made the changes, but hubbard had a policy about “2D” rules that was pretty liberal for a while. Now, you can get RPFed for a french kiss.

  • Poison Ivy

    Of course she was having fun at the Celebrity Center. Compared to the RPF? That’s some nice intermittent reinforcement right there. We can send you to the depths of hell and then raise you to the pinnacle of heaven…at our whim.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Parents and grandparents should use this to scare the crap out of their kids and keep them out of cults ever ever ever again.

    • Poison Ivy

      You said it. (LIke my Mom made me read books about cults before she sent me away to LA to college.)

  • ParticleMom

    I forgot to breathe for a while there when they got their son out.

  • Sidney18511

    She said that she knew the SO was hideous but what she didn’t know was that Scientology itself was hideous.

    • Poison Ivy

      One of the best quotes in the piece.

      • N. Graham

        Yes, hopefully it’s at this point that the neophyte viewer says, “it gets worse? she was 5 months pregnant and living in a parking garage and they somehow get WORSE?” (Of course we know the answer to that, I’m just surmising and hoping this is how the ID public will think).

  • sugarplumfairy

    You said it, Nancy.. scientology is hideous..

  • Sidney18511

    She is spilling ALL the shit they did to her.

  • #IDAddicts on Twitter have been going wild. #DangerousPersuasions

  • SP ‘Onage

    “Your either with us or you’re against us,” sounds like Tom Cruise.

    • Midwest Mom

      Isn’t he hiding in Japan?

      • Deckard__Cain

        Cruise is hiding in Japan? At least he’ll not be the shortest person in the room in that country.

        • Midwest Mom

          I know. He won’t need his lifts! 🙂

          • SP ‘Onage

            I hate his Herman Munster looking boots.

        • SP ‘Onage

          LOL! Hope he stays there.

          • Midwest Mom

            I wonder if he’s “auditioning” there? wink, wink

      • SP ‘Onage

        I think so?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist


      • SP ‘Onage


  • A W.I.S.E. consultant would be a ‘public’ person, in this case an ex-sea org member who left and has become ‘church public’ like a regular member, setting themselves up as a business consultant getting a percentage of what the business pays W.I.S.E. It’s a ‘field staff member’ or FSM relationship to W.I.S.E.

  • ParticleMom

    Only 10 minutes left?? No!! Give me at least another hour…

    • N. Graham

      I know what you mean, but I’ve got to say that they’ve fit a lot in to a small amount of time.

      • ParticleMom

        I am grateful that a show like this gave this story such great treatment. I am just being greedy.

        • N. Graham

          I understand. Can you imagine the frankness of this TV show even three years ago,with most journalists still just tip-toeing around cult news?

          • ParticleMom

            It was still somewhat obscure on the internet 3 years ago.I hope the show does more ex’s survival stories.

            • N. Graham

              Me too. To be honest, we usually call it the Murder Channel since that is usually what they have. But this show raised my over-all opinion of them (and I do think they do what they do very well) about 500% higher.

  • Poison Ivy

    It should be 2 hours!

  • Deckard__Cain

    I’m not sure that the Sec Check reenactment properly illustrates the myriad of emotions – fear, anxiety, stress, that go on and on and on. The level of stress was simply too much.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Deck: There could easily be an entire Series on this ID channel just on that.

      • N. Graham

        It could have its own cable channel!

  • Sidney18511

    People are SHOCKED over on the ID message board. They can’t believe what they are watching. Many eyes are being opened tonight.

    • TonyOrtega


      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I believe you need to register, but can use face or twit.

        I’d like for them to be invited over here!

        • Deckard__Cain

          I don’t know about you all but I signed up for the ID Addicts site and I’m genuinely frightened by the people who post religiously about the shows on this channel. It’s sort of like a serial killer fan convention or something like that. I know that my Scientology Watching hobby is non-conventional but those people are scurry!

          • And that’s the crowd whose wrath is about to be unleashed on Davey Miscavage. He’ll be crying for the days of Guy Fawkes masks soon enough!

          • Poison Ivy

            Mr. Poison Ivy and I are both true crime fanatics, but the Discovery ID Addicts are a breed apart!

          • LOL! My mother is addicted to those shows, but because she’s interested in the forensics and the psychology behind the crimes.

        • Poison Ivy

          I mentioned Tony’s blog in a couple places. Maybe some of them will drop by?

    • Midwest Mom

      Great! More internet and twitter helpers!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    My fav comment so far on ID Addicts: “Scientology doesn’t just go after you. It will go after the people close to you.”

    They Totally get it.

    • Midwest Mom

      …and they’ll tell two friends, and they’ll tell two friends, and so on, and so on and…

      • Poison Ivy

        It’s nice. I think many of them are younger. They are the right people to get this message.

        • Midwest Mom

          They also use social media with rapid speed and smershiness! 🙂

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You So crack me up.

          • Poison Ivy

            Oh, the evil Smersh! They’ve co-opted the internet generation!

    • SP ‘Onage

      This is good news.

    • DeElizabethan

      That’s the sad part. They go after your friends and family in covert ways. Tis why so many ex’s stay hidden or not make many friends, so as to spare them. Plus others that know you were in the cult don’t really want to get too close = possible trouble. Very sad. Sort of an self imposed exiled condition one lives in or a covered pretended existence.
      With Nancy and all the others that have and will come forward, this should change.

  • I just learned that this series interviewed my friend Kerry Noble- he was involved with a miltia cult in the US

    • scnethics

      Amazing – a show about unethical control. Was this your idea? 🙂

    • Deckard__Cain

      It’s great to see you here, Steve. I know this sounds silly but I’m a huge fan of yours. Your videos are fantastic…..I wish the US Gov’t would start to pay serious attention to your work.

  • Sidney18511

    This should be rerunning tonight around 1:00 or 2:00 am. I have got to watch this again.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    The meltdown. This is Why.

  • villagedianne

    I loved the part of Karin Pouw’s reply where she says that Nancy Many wrote her book while under psychiatric treatment and that she may Still be under psychiatric treatment. Scientology has a 1950’s mentality, where a person under “psych” treatment is like the bogey man and must be insaaaaane! Scientologists sure live in an insular world.

    • Poison Ivy

      Hell, I lived in LA for 20 years. We used to say “Okay, going to my shrink now” with the same nonchalance as we’d say “I’m going for coffee.”

      • Like that exchange in “The Player”: I’ve got to go to my AA meeting — I didn’t know you were an alcoholic — I’m not, but that’s where all the deals get made these days.

        • Poison Ivy

          One of my favorite scenes in that movie (and book!).

    • Deckard__Cain

      Ya, I read that as “so what?”. Only the culties think of psychiatry as an evil stigma. That strange phobia makes them appear cultish even to the casual reader.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Hells no, not the fuking Marcabians!

    • Deckard__Cain


    • N. Graham

      I knew it!

    • scnethics


  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Run, Nancy, Run!

  • SP ‘Onage

    God, this makes me think of Lisa McPherson. *gulp*

    • California

      I agree. I have talked to people who were around when Lisa “cracked” or “was driven crazy’ and what they describe is exactly this. But Nancy had Chris, her son and another life beckoning. Poor Lisa did not and apparently was being framed, as well.

      I have to ask Chris and Nancy if they ever found out what their second “transgression” was. It seems from this perspective and what we know of SCN’s mind control and manipulation practices that they may had been getting groomed to do “something” in order to stay in SCN’s good graces. Here is the reward if you are good; here is the punishment if you disobey us.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I think someone royally screwed up in divulging that Masonic connection (think OTO Crawley/Parsons crap) and had to discredit Nancy since she had access to Hollywood rolodex. If she had told her contacts what she was thinking at that Masonic moment, game over. Big Huge Money Drain would follow. Oh, did I mention scientology and Hubbard was all about money?

        • California

          That resonates with what someone told me when I first met Nancy on-line years ago. I think you are correct.

  • Sidney18511

    Yeah…..her husband wants out!.,

  • Thank you Nancy and Chris for speaking out! Kudos to you

  • Deckard__Cain


    • Midwest Mom


    • Deckard__Cain

      I lurve the fact that Nancy got in that last part, “Scientology is all about money, power…..”

      Wow, we’ve come a long way to have something like this on television.

  • scnethics

    This IS a new stage in the war. That was riveting, entertaining, and carried the message. There’s been nothing like it before. It gives me so much hope. Thank you Nancy and Discovery Investigations!!!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Truly nothing like it before. I remember when Poison Ivy first came on the scene. She’d wanted to do a doco and got the usual Oh No! But just take this doco and expand it to a full blown HBO Series. The story of scientology cannot be told in one book, or story or documentary. It is a Series and one that I think would get contracts for many years. I see it as something like Forrest Gump with the historical background to help viewers understand the vital points of background.

      • Poison Ivy

        That’s an interesting idea.

    • ParticleMom

      Quote/Tweet from one of their ID Addicts “@DiscoveryID #DangerousPersuasions Is Certainly #IDAddict APPROVED.”

  • sugarplumfairy

    Wuss.. I’m hangin in for ice cold killers..

  • martinwalkeruk

    Nancy was played by Janet Porter

    • SP ‘Onage

      Great actress!

      • Midwest Mom

        Very pretty, like Nancy.

        • Very good likeness, helped to make the narration and the re-enactment fit together seamlessly.

    • Poison Ivy

      British actress?? Was it shot in the UK?

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Imma let this sink into my brain for the night.

  • Nancy Many

    I am so proud of how they portrayed this story…. Thank you all for watching,, and I hope this is the beginning of more more more. And Yes Discovery ID and Raw TV UK took a huge leap of faith with this…. I cannnot thank them enough.

    • This show can be used to really get the word out about Scientology. It is an incredible achievement. Way to go, Nancy!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You are the Queen of the Natural Born Healers, Nancy. I can’t believe it is finally happening. Tipping Point. Thank you.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Thank you, Nancy! Well done.

    • Poison Ivy

      Nancy, you were amazing. I have spent many years doing off camera interviews for shows much like this and you really did an A plus plus job. You were so straightforward, no one could question your integrity, Karin Powowow or no Karin Powowowo. Do you happen to know what camera/format Raw TV used? It had a great look.

    • Thank you so much Nancy!

    • scnethics

      Thank YOU Nancy!!!

    • N. Graham

      Not to worry. It was great and will do a lot of good.

    • They aren’t the only ones who took a leap of faith. It was so brave of you to share your story with the whole world like that, especially knowing the denigration Scientology would heap upon you in it’s wake.

      Thank you.

    • California

      I am so very very glad that Chris and you got out, sanity and love for each other and your family intact, and now are educating the planet (literally) about what SCN is all about.

      And people are now in the RPF for years…. trapped by their minds as well as barbed wire and coercion…..

      Blessing, blessings, blessings on you and yours. You will be on Oprah in no time!

      • Oprah loves scientologists so I doubt she will be on her show,though It would be nice to see..

    • Be proud of yourself, Nancy. You did a fantastic job and kudos to Discovery. Just to let you know, this story will indeed reach many people not normally following Scientology. My Mom just called to tell me she just saw a show (your episode) about “that cult you told me about” and how scary and dangerous they appeared. I’d previously told her about some things about Scientology activities because she owns a farm near the northern California LRH depository.

    • q-bird

      and you know what else, Nancy, dear heart?

      Your book is even more compelling than this dramatized synopsis.

      I very much admire your strength; you speak the truth. I hear you.
      Thank you for having the courage to tell your story to all.
      Cheers and Kind Regard and Respect to you and your family.

    • California

      I like the idea of a Historical series….. instead of “Upstairs/Downstairs” it could be “SeaOrg/RPF.” The so-called best and the worst…. and DM lording it over everyone with the help of TC.

    • 0tessa

      Thank you so much Nancy for bringing out the truth.
      You are a very courageous woman!
      God bless you.

    • Vistaril

      A billion thanks, Nancy.

    • Nancy: Oh my Gawd…I’m soooooooooo proud of you and Chris! This was an a m a z i n g story. I loved the story (I’ve heard much of it from you….thought you ALL did a terrific job of truly showing it. The actors that played you both were terrific. I **loved** how you, Chris and Paulette Cooper each spoke yourselves…that truly made it real. Also, the sets were extremely *real*. Thank you ALL so very much. This will help many, many people understand why Scientology has SO many critics. Hopefully some of those still trapped “in” will see it and have the same realization you and Chris did: “We’re out of here”. 🙂 I Loved it! Again, thank you Tony O for continuing to spread the word. Love to ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Nancy, I read your book and was heartbroken by your story. I’m so glad that this ID show was truly faithful to your personal account. It was superbly filmed and dramatized. Anyone new to the subject would be captivated by the way it was presented. People need to know how evil L. Ron Hubbard was as well as his cult. Thank you for your bravery in confronting this evil. I’ve been out of the cult for 23 years and have been flourishing and prospering. I’m happy to see that you are doing so very well. Your story is inspirational to those affected by this destructive cult.

  • sharon brown

    So Happy to see this Finally in a ” mainstream ” tv show ! I Believe 2013 is off to a Great start in opening others eyes to the harm Scientology does. Thank you Tony for continuing to help shed light on this cult !

  • Deckard__Cain

    Tony, I don’t think that she tended to blame herself too much….I am glad that they kept that in because it illustrates her deepening level of mind control. The audience was probably asking why she just didn’t ‘leave’ so they needed to explain how deeply entrenched she was in the abuse.

    • Poison Ivy

      I don’t think they explained the mind control aspect of it well enough. I understand why they made that choice – they wanted to keep the story moving. But it’s so important for people unfamiliar with cults (who tend to blame the victims) to be educated on how simple it is to reprogram a person’s mind, with the right method.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That is my only problem with it. And I got hung on it.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I think from the comments that it might not be necessary, but hey, in just one hour (with commercials) I am floored how much was covered in this segment, just amazed, really. There could have easily been an hour on about 6 separate categories. I can tell you that it affected me watching it, and I’m fairly over it all. I think the very fast movement of it with all the music, visual that lent itself to the emotional impact was appropriately ferocious. But of course that’s my take and I can’t be objective.

        • Deckard__Cain

          I agree, but they left out the RPF’s RPF that she was on while pregnant. That part was very disturbing in her book and should have been included.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It was an hour with commericals. But lol, I know what you mean.

          • Well, when the ID Addicts ask ID if anything was “exaggerated” for effect (as N. Graham commented above that some are likely to think), and then get told, uh, actually we even had to cut some of the weirder stuff out….

  • It’s quite common to believe you had “free will” to leave at anytime. To blame oneself. But you cannot actually have free will if you are being deliberately misinformed, lied to, manipulated and have your goals and dreams for yourself anchored to a fictional quest to saving the universe. You are in a bubble and all your thinking has become warped to conform to that bubble. You are not thinking outside of it. Your ‘free will’ to leave does not really exist as long as you are under the thrall. Once the cracks appear, such as through extreme mistreatment where you can no longer explain away the treatment as being consistent with the ideals you accept, then you start to get enough outside information to start to see what’s going on. Even then, it can take years, even decades to really exercise true free will and leave.

    • Well put. I think another really big anchor, mentioned by so many ex’s, is the threat to your eternal salvation if you dare leave. Once you’ve bought the lie that Scientology is the ONLY way to be free then the threat of taking that salvation away is a very real fear impacting a person’s ability to exercise free will..

  • Wow. Nancy was incredible, poised, honest. It took an incredible amount of courage for her to bare her soul like that. I hope her story gets the attention it deserves.

  • Thanks all for the live run down – it was exhilerating just reading about the cliff hanger moments.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I hope Paulette Cooper does something like this. I wish someone in Hollywood picks up her life story and makes full featured movie.

    • scnethics

      Me too! And I think Counterfeit Dreams (Jeff Hawkins book) would make a great movie if it was done right.

      • N. Graham

        Blown for Good-Marc Headley’s-worth a good show for the escape by motorcycle alone!

      • SP ‘Onage

        There are probably thousands of horrible stories that need to be told. I hope one of these days they all get told.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Paulette Cooper and Marc Headley. Those stories are major hits. Period.

      • SP ‘Onage

        Yeah, Marc’s story definitely.

    • ParticleMom

      Paulette’s story is amazing, especially when you add in the history of Paulette’s youth that Tony recently helped discover. It is also one of the best introductions to how insidious the church is and has always been.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Thank You Tony! I really enjoyed myself.

  • Anyone in the know or with balck belt google-fu find an estimate of likely viewer numbers?

    • This site already has some numbers on shows from yesterday, and lists ID:

      change the last digits to 2013/01/17 tomorrow and maybe they will have numbers from tonight. Last night according to the site, ID cracked the 1.0 million mark

  • Dean Blair

    Karen Pouww (David Miscavige) now has about as much credibility as the information minister of Iraq. Do you remember him? His words were so far from the facts that the whole world laughed at him.

    I watched the show with my wife and we both enjoyed it. It was a very good duplication of Nancy’s wonderful book. Thank you Nancy for both your book and for being on television with your husband to enlighten all of those who do not yet know what we all know to be happening.

    Thank you Tony for being a very high caliber reporter.

  • I’ll repeat what I just said on ESMB:

    This show is exactly what is needed.

    It was pure from the heart, a woman’s story about what the application of Hubbard’s “tech” can do to destroy a person or a family.

    Although I knew the story already I was brought to tears throughout the show, seeing and “reexperiencing” some of the horrors of scientology unfolding before my eyes as I witnessed a wonderful women and family being destroyed.

    After I was able to compose myself I just now called Nancy and told her how much I love her and how much I appreciate what she did to get her story out again, this time in a way that many more can see it, be touched by it and better understand the cruel world of organized scientology.

    Perhaps our governments can’t or won’t deal with such horrors but we can do something about it and that is to continue to get out the truth. And, in doing so, we will help others to either get out of scientology or not get involved in the first place.

    THANK YOU again Nancy!

    • Amen.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Thanks to you too, Denise. You’ve put a lot of hours, tears, and sweat into this fight too.

    • California

      Yes to what you have just said.

    • Ditto, Denise! I had a very similar reaction, and just got off the phone talking with Nancy. She and I have been on a *very* special road…in that we started ‘waking up’ together, reading Self-Improvement books, listen to radio shows not ok by the “church” (barbara diAngeles was one!) We had our secret libraries. 🙂 Didn’t both she, Chris and Paulette do a fantastic job?! I am soooooooooo proud of all of them, as well as the actors, and Disney for putting it on. I loved the way they had the actors show what happened, and they each SAY their stories. Plus I thought the sets were great, too. You’re a great person, too, Denise..and have helped many and been SO courageous. I love you ALL. <3 Tory/Magoo

  • Midwest Mom

    What will be Kung Pouw’s word of the day or phrase be tomorrow? Lying haters? Anti-religious bigots? Tabloid hacks trying to make money? Bitter psychotic losers?

  • Lisa


  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Disqus I think has now gone PTS to Karen Pouw. And the Bunker is a better place for it.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Disqus is seriously wonkified tonight.

      • scnethics

        Disqus is in the weeds. Or smoking weed. Or something.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Disqus Can’t Handle The Truth!

          • Deckard__Cain

            Goddamnit, THDNE, you are on fire lately.

  • mouseyhair

    I am a regular bunker devotee and have spent the past months reading everything I can get my hands on in order to educate myself and others! Tonight I made my 18 year old daughter, who will be going to college this fall, sit and watch the program so that I could help her understand how these people come after young people. Thank you to all of you who have lived this life and have spoken out. You have my respect.

    • scnethics

      Wish my parents had done the same – good for you!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I hope Nancy gets to hear this. Every single person makes a difference. I’m pretty sure she will tell you this.

    • Thank you for this. It means more than I can express (it actually brought tears to my eyes). Your daughter is extremely fortunate to be so very loved and protected. Good on you.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Thank you! Scientology is as bad as drugs, Say No To Scientology!

    • Poison Ivy

      That was very smart Mouseyhair. My Mom did the same for me back in the ancient ’80’s – except with books. So I get to my little college town and sure enough, a guy posing as a graduate student TRICKED me into coming with him into a Scientology mission! The minute I saw what it was I turned on my heel without stopping and didn’t look back. That year, a freshman in my dorm also didn’t come back after joining the Hari Krishna’s. He was a rich kid from Newport Beach who looked like Rob Lowe…no one would’ve ever dreamt it.

    • Your education effort with your daughter is a good idea and not just because it makes her aware of Scientology. There are a number of groups that act to entrap kids and vulnerable people.

  • Midwest Mom

    Is anyone else picturing Davey with an oxygen tank and air mask, inhaling large gulps of air, then exhaling like crazy? Sleep well tonight, Davey. “Wheeeeeeeeeeeeze!”

    • scnethics

      I am now – thanks!

    • sugarplumfairy

      I bet tonight he’s wandering the hallways of his plush digs in Hemet, talking to portraits of lrh..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Portraits of LRH? I’m thinking Top Gun and Mission Impossible, and um, yeah, talking to it.

    • SP ‘Onage

      yeah, and in between gulps yelling, “SCOHB!”

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You gave me visions of that character in “Dune” with the oxygen lines and warts and he kind of floated in the air. Ewwww.

      • Midwest Mom

        He and his dogs are wearing matching silk pajamas.

      • Espiando

        Not me. I’m thinking Dennis Hopper’s character in Blue Velvet. Except the Roy Orbison song that he’d be singing is, of course, “Running Scared”. In tribute to our own Tony, natch.

  • Deckard__Cain

    I thought I was the only one that puts on TCM to feel ‘all right with the world’. TCM is the best channel on cable and is like having 24/7 comfort food.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Hey, Tony! That was really fun.. Thanks! Can we do it again tomorrow night?

  • Motherofonewhodied

    It got real when my son died in their facility

    • Midwest Mom

      Oh, my gosh! I am so sorry! How awful!

    • My heart breaks when I read statements like yours, Mom. Letting you know that I’m sorry hardly seem to be enough. It needs to stop!

      • Motherofonewhodied

        I am fighting and it’s good to know I am NOT alone…thank you very much

    • Midwest Mom

      How old was your precious son?

      • Motherofonewhodied

        He was and is very precious….32….thank you

    • SP ‘Onage

      Whaaa? So sorry.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Thank you

    • ParticleMom

      I am so sorry for your loss.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Thank you….we all need to be deeply concerned at what is happening…..if I hadnt seen it with my own eyes….I probably wouldn’t have believed it.

    • I know words are worthless at a time like this, but I’m truly sorry for your loss.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Actually, words are not worthless at all….it means the world to me….thank you for reaching out

    • DeElizabethan

      I am so sorry for your loss. Blessing and love to you.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Thank you very much….

    • mouseyhair

      I am so sorry for your unspeakable loss. I pray comfort for you.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        The Comforter has blessed me beyond belief….I miss my son….there are no words….

    • dbloch7986

      I am so sorry Mother.

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Thank you so much….he is a beautiful spirit

    • nevarmore

      My prayer for you, Mother … from one mother to another. May the breadth of the serenity and peace of the universe fill your heart, and whisper it’s promise to you, “he is not gone forever”. Someday, you will recognize his voice once more, and you will see his smile again…

      • Motherofonewhodied

        Thank you, I have 2 sons and my husband waiting for me….I have a gentle peace that surpasses all understanding….they are absolutely with me in spirit….I am fighting for justice…thank you, again…you were the only one who noticed;)

        • nevarmore

          Your losses are deep ones indeed, but truly, you are not alone. That gentle peace is a life line and will serve you well.

  • scnethics

    See you all tomorrow night, right Tony? :))

  • martinwalkeruk

    I read a comment below from someone that said they’d lurked Tony for a while and only been moved today to sign up and make that comment. I’m exactly the same. I’m an English guy living in NYC and didn’t really know anything about Scientology until I stumbled upon Tony’s Runnin’ Scared blog on Village Voice 6 months or so ago, voraciously read every single piece written on the subject and realised, oh my God, this organisation is evil. Messing with people’s heads and lives for – as Nancy put it – money and power.

    I’m not pretending to understand even 10% of what it must be like to be in such a place but the stories of all of you that managed to get out are so powerful. It just scares the hell out of me to imagine any son or daughter of mine getting drawn in, and that’s why it’s so important to keep informing as many people as possible about the truth.

    Thanks to Tony for pursuing this so hard in the face of such an aggressive litigious culture, thanks to all ex-Scientologists for keeping the narrative going, and particularly thanks to Nancy for having the bravery to make tonight’s programme.

    • Midwest Mom

      Thanks for joining here. 🙂

    • Welcome!

  • Midwest Mom

    To the “Mother of One Who Died” who commented a bit ago. Our hearts go out to you and please know that every life lost because of Scientology is important to us and this is why we want this abusive organization to be held accountable for the pain and suffering it has caused and is continuing in the present time.

    I can’t imagine your pain and grief. If you ever feel like telling your story here, we would sure like to know about your son. We’ll keep you and your son in our thoughts. Thank you for joining us tonight. 🙂

    • That broke me up. Yet ANOTHER death due to Scientology. I hope she stays in touch here.

    • Amen

    • SP ‘Onage

      Yeah, if you ever need to talk come hang out with us. We really do care. 🙂

    • California


  • Nancy (and all), Just watched the show, and my wife is watching the recording now. I am breathless. You’d think this would be well trodden-over ground. Nope. Seeing this dramatized, I believe absolutely, will be a watershed event in the exposure of Scientology neither Karen or her puppeteer, DM, will be able to slough this one off. God bless you, Nancy… and CONGRATULATIONS on being able to escape this evil cult!

  • SP ‘Onage

    Tony, that’s bad ass! You get to hang out with Lawrence Wright?

    • Yes! Completely cool. Tell him we all said hi and we’re all very excited about the book and his hard work and he should take good care and we think he rocks! And so do you, Tony.

  • California

    Welcome to all you many people now learning about SCN, learning about us and I hope some of you will be joining in helping people harmed by SCN.
    Not all our weeks and months are as joyful and “winning” as the last few have been but I do think we are on a good path that will be leading to more success in 2013.


  • Deckard__Cain

    Here’s a series pitch – how about an entire series with 26 episodes to run weekly where each week we get another ex-Scientologist’s (and even some non-Scientologists’) story laid out like Nancy’s? This would be a fantastic show. Here are the exes that I suggest for this series:

    1. Nancy Many (done)

    2. Tory Christman

    3. Denise Brennan

    4. Astra Woodcraft

    5. Jenna Miscavige Hill

    6. Chuck Beatty

    7. Sallydance (at ESMB)

    8. Mark Bunker

    9. Jesse Prince

    10. A cult primer with Steve Hassan

    11. Andreas Heldal Lund

    12. Pooks

    13. Karen Pressley

    14. Jason Beghe
    15. Larry Anderson
    16. Marc and Claire Headley
    17. Gerry Armstrong
    18. Graham Berry
    19. Smurf
    20. Hanna Whitfield

    Who else? And I really wouldn’t want Rathbun, Rinder, or Cook on that list. Two of those three should only be interviewed from behind bars and Cook won’t talk.

    • Midwest Mom

      Kyle Brennan, Shawn Lonsdale, (Not exes, but significant, with compelling and heart breaking stories). Kate Bornstein…

      • Deckard__Cain

        Good choices, but Kyle and Shawn are unfortunately no longer with us so it would have to be someone that could narrate like Nancy did tonight.

        Auntie Kate is an excellent addition.

        • Midwest Mom

          How is she?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            She said recently on twitter that she is doing well. I think she is still just kind of regaining her strength.

    • Scooter from ESMB. That’s another heartbreaking story. Paulette Cooper. Seriously, almost any ex.

    • DeElizabethan

      Excellent list.

    • John Atack; Jeff Hawkins;

    • Tough to make those choices. I’d really want to see Jeff Hawkins on this list. But you’ve certainly got an all-star line-up. Wouldn’t it be so great: I can totally see an HBO series.

    • Paulette Cooper. She shows what lengths they’ll go to and how even people on the outside aren’t safe from them.

      Make Marc and Claire a two-parter showing what Scientology did to them afterward, including the offer to drop the judgement payment in return for spying on the indies.

    • dbloch7986

      Throw me in there too.

  • Sherbet

    I didn’t make it to the party (or apres party waffles with snethics, Tory, et al), but I watched the show, and it was great! The narration and dramatization mix worked beautifully, much better than just a voiceover from Nancy, which is what I expected. And the stars really came out for this blog, exes and all. What a fun, informative, and important event, and, just think, none of us had to sign a contract or pay a cent for the experience. Buh-bye, cos. You continue to look really stupid and dangerous, and the only thing the planet is being cleared of is cash from the pockets of the idealistic.

  • Dear Nancy, I just finished watching the program. I’m struggling to find a way to say how moved I am. Thank you for all you do to publicly cry foul on this horrible, abusive, disgusting organization. I wish you continued peace and happiness and joy. Next time you’re in Portland, I hope you’ll let us cook you some dinner. (Jeff Hawkins’ family)

  • 0tessa

    I know one thing for sure now: Scientology is much, much more dangerous than Psychiatry ever will be.

  • 0tessa

    It is very clear that the one method Scientology uses for mind control is the enforced confession technique.I think they are unique in this. Even the Catholic Church, the Maoists and the Commies in the old days did not use it to that extent.
    Father Brown would be horrified to see confession disabused in the way scientology does.
    But what else can you expect from Miscavige, who has sold his soul to the devil. Miscavige = Mefistoles.

    • The sacrament of Confession has nothing to do with the “confessionals” of Scientology. Nothing. By Catholic Canon Law Catholics are not obliged to confess their sins to a priest except once a year in the Easter season.

      In a Catholic confession the penitent herself discloses her sins freely and voluntarily. The priest does not interrogate and demand that sins be confessed.

      The purpose of Confession is to reconcile a penitent with God, and the priest gives assurance of God’s mercy and forgiveness, which is why it is called the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

      Besides being voluntary Catholic confessions are not recorded in writing, video, or audio, and priests are bound by the “Seal of Confession” to disclose nothing shared by the penitent. Priests have refused demands to do so unto losing their lives.

      None of this has anything to do with confessions to the police or Maoist or Stalinist confessions. These are confession of crimes and transgressions of state law. Confessions may be voluntary to the police or “wrung out” of a criminal. Stalinist and Maoist confessions are almost always coerced, and all of them are recorded without any promise of them being kept secret since the point of these confessions is to present them to a court in legal proceedings.

      Stalinist and Maoist confessions like Scientology confessions nearly always involve interrogations of disloyalty to the state and the Great Leader, whether it is Stalin, Mao, or L. Ron Hubbard.


      • 0tessa

        Don’t forget the Inquisition, where heretics were even tortured to tell their transgression of the official doctrines or other sinful thoughts. That is also an abuse of the confession itself.

    • Peter Robinson

      Actually it is very similar to the way Stalinist Soviet Union, Maoist China, and the Pol Pot Khmer Rouge regimes operated. Which is why it is so damned awful and despicable.

  • Peter Robinson

    I have asked Discovery here in the U..K. if this on the schedule and they say not currently. So, if anyone has a link to watch online be most grateful! Am still waiting to hear if anyone can explain how scifiology can be claimed to be a religion when it appears to have no deity or deities? Anyone able to clarify this? All best to all involved in investigating ad exposing the scam for what it is. and especially to those who have had the courage and strength to escape.

  • Pepsicat

    I spent a good 20 years in Scn – never saw this Messiah reference. Jaw dropping. Can anyone post a copy of it?

    • There’s more detail about in Nancy’s book and L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman by Ronald DeWolf and Brent Corydon. As far as I know the Messianic Project surveys themselves aren’t on line. There’s more information from people who participated scattered here and there on the internet at places like Ex Scientologist Message Board, Operation Clambake, Reaching for the Tipping Point. Hubbard’s Hymn of Asia positions him as the Western Buddha of Buddhist prophecy.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I’d really, really love to see this, but as I am in Australia there is very little chance unless there is an online copy somewhere. Please, if one comes available, let us know… *begs*

  • BuryTheNuts2
    • stillgrace

      Thanks for passing this one along, BTN. Even South Africa is taking notes!

  • mook

    looks like Misscavige/”Karin Puow” worked overtime for those canned responses to Good Morning America’s and Today Show’s stories on the cult this morning. Larry Wright offered major pwnage.

  • I missed it last night due to dinner guests but the comments are amazing !

  • Deckard__Cain

    Sci-celeb Erika Christensen “clears up Scientology Misunderstandings” on Just Jared. Comments are open…..gogogogogo

  • jensting

    Oooh! I can watch this on Friday. I’m so chuffed 😀

    • SP ‘Onage

      Meh, I think her acting sucks! Shoop time!…heh

  • Joan Diskin was Nancy’s interrogator when Nancy cracked. Joan audited all the difficult members, Joan was Office of Special Affairs, and Joan was later sent to the RPF (clergy prison redemption reeducation program) for messing up (inevitable in the world of Hubbard’s Sea Org, all inevitably fail!!).

    I had Joan do my “final” interrogations, just before I received final authorization to “route out” of the Sea Org.

    One thing I hold against Marty, who today still hasn’t come clean on the harsh whole trend in the interrogation that slipped back into the movement, from 1982 era, and on the harsh techniques that Joan Diskin employed on Nancy, on others, even me, for years, was part of a harsh fad that might for sure trace to Miscavige’s making the harsh tactic option again a used tool. (It gets into an important discussion, since even Hubbard stopped himself using the harsh tactic, but Miscavige, seeing the late 1970s film scripts which had one or two scenes which Hubbard had the interrogator act tough on the person being interrogated, from this film script and a few general comments, the 1982 onwards fad of using the harsh interrogation tactics, slipped back into fad, and this detail is at bottom, the reason Joan Diskin, who was drilled for years in employing and being approved to employ, the harsh confrontational technique, the technique that triggered Nancy’s cracking).

    I too had Joan erupt on me, for a few moments, in one of her interrogation sessions on me and is is the ultimate betrayal when your therapist minister turns tables and directs their scoffing disbelief attitude that you the patient are not telling the truth. Utter betrayal of the ministerial trust that minister or therapist is supposed to uphold.

    It goes back to Hubbard’s words on the matter, and a whole paper on the history of the Scientology interrogation harsh session option(s) needs be done, and the whole sordid horrendous history needs be spelled out.

    Joan Diskin cracked Nancy Many! And Hubbard’s words interpreted and pushed for all the decades since 1982, pushing the Scientology interrogators to often go overboard, and violate the minister/therapist trust, is one of the deepest troubling hidden harms and evils of L. Ron Hubbard’s Scientology.

    This is such an important evil of Scientology to lay out, and it deserves a long detailed paper!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)

    • stillgrace

      Thanks for the inside information, Chuck. Does anyone know what happened to Joan Diskin?
      I agree this interrogation practice needs more exposure. Media exposure.

  • stillgrace

    I’m curious why the ID channel is not broadcasting right now. All I see is a still shot of the word “INTEGRITY” on the side of a building! What gives? Is Co$ attempting intimidation? Or is my imagination running away with me because I haven’t had my coffee yet?

    • Deckard__Cain

      It’s broadcasting where I am (Los Angeles).

      • stillgrace

        Thanks! In the Bay Area, there is scheduled programming that is not being shown right now. Just the word “INTEGRITY” on the side of a brick building. Weird.

  • Ze Moo

    Nancy’s story will drive more ‘new meat’ away from the CO$, but more exposes are needed. There is no lack of material for more stories.

    In the late 60’s and early 70’s several tv networks did stories about the ‘Children of God’, a cult founded by David Berg that received so much bad press that Berg eventually moved to Libya. Berg became a devotee of then Col. Mumar Gaddafi and Berg sang Gaddafi’s praises for several years until left Libya. That ‘church’ then morphed into The Family International. That cult survived the death of the great leader and continues to this day as a fringe cult. Killing off cults is not easy and all you can hope to do is deny them fresh meat. Just because you can’t kill a cult doesn’t mean you can’t starve it.

  • dbloch7986

    The visuals in the show were stunning. It is surprising how little the church had changed from the 80s until I was in the Church in the 2000s.

    I was having a bit of an emotional experience watching it. It reminded me a lot of what I went through. Those interrogations were very similar to the ones I had to endure. They way they were describing the feelings that they were going through as they routed out and when she decided that Scientology was bullshit.

    It’s scary to think how close I was to an emotional breakdown like the one that she had. If it wasn’t for my friends and my life outside of the church I don’t know what I would have done. I am so glad she had someone there for her.

    All in all the show hit home for me. It was very touching and I am so glad she was able to share her experience with so many people. I’m sure the whole process was very therapeutic.

    Also I can’t wait for Rock Center tonight. I have it set to record as well.

    The entire show I was texting my cousin in Texas about it. That was great. I have to admit the show brought tears to my eyes.

  • Carol

    This show will repeat on Saturday January 19, 2013 at noon PST and 3 pm EST. On Discovery ID channel.

    The link for the TV schedule is here:

  • Peter Robinson

    Part 1 and Part 2 here:

    waiting for rest to be uploaded although not sure of the copyright issues?

    • DeElizabethan

      YEA! Peter, Thank you so very much for this…

  • E Steinem

    In regards to the spokesperson from Scientology, are we, as in those of us who think Scientology is NOT for us, to believe that because Nancy wrote her book in part as her treatment with her psychiatrist, does that mean she is not believable. I find that statement offensive and from what I have seen and read including the Scientology site referred to by commentator above. When researching Scientology and from the actions of Tom Cruise it is a philosophy that believes that they are elitists and the rest of us are the uniformed losers who just don’t get it. Well from what I have seen you are showing your true colors for going on the defensive like you are. It seems like you are rather nervous and there are secrets you don’t want others to know about. That makes you think that Scientology is afraid therefore not as sure of itself as they would have us believe. Surely, being role models would be all you needed if it and you could just act as if rather than act as though you are really guilty of something underneath and it would be devastating for the world to find out. It seems really skeezy to me. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth if you get my drift. Tom Cruise’s behavior if reflective of the whole of Scientology has really brought a bad light on to your organization. He acts as though he is a complete spoiled man baby who thinks he is entitled to anything and everything and he is making an ass of himself. Is Scientology a group of people wanting to make a difference in the world through kindness to their fellow human beings or a exclusive bunch of egomaniacs who are debasing of women and frankly very cult like in many circumstances from what I have observed. It makes me, well,

  • I missed the show and want to see it. Is there some way I can watch it online?