SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Scientology wants to force a drug rehab center on Maryland: Here’s the local county’s response

TroutRun2

 
We have an interesting document for you today. It’s the response from Frederick County, Maryland, to Scientology’s appeal of a zoning decision that is preventing its drug rehab network, Narconon, from building a boutique rehab center with 20 beds in a fishing camp known as Trout Run.

Quick recap: We’ve been reporting that Scientology leader David Miscavige has responded to Narconon’s ongoing legal problems by relaunching the network, which includes opening up a new set of smaller rehab centers that seem to be more about public relations than about solving the scourge of illegal drug use. He’s rapidly opened a number of new centers in places like Mexico, Denmark, and California. But Miscavige has been stopped in other locations where local residents have fought back in zoning fights — in Australia, Canada, and in Maryland.

The Maryland situation is particularly odd. Trout Run is an old fishing camp that stood in for Camp David for some scenes in The West Wing. It’s not zoned for a rehab center. But Scientology learned that if Trout Run could be designated as a historic place by Frederick County, a drug rehab “group home” would then be allowed to operate on it. So Scientology bought the parcel through one of its subsidiaries — Social Betterment Properties International (SBPI) — and then set out to convince the officials of Frederick County that its fish camp was a gem of historic significance.

Despite lining up various local experts and county boards to go along with the maneuver, in June the County Council shot down SBPI’s proposal with a 6-1 vote.

But David Miscavige does not give up so easily. So Scientology filed a legal appeal last month.

Scientology’s appeal can be summarized pretty quickly. It claims that despite its efforts to line up various locals who agreed that Trout Run was historic, the County Council itself, swayed by religious bigots who didn’t want to see Scientology move in, went against their own experts and made up false excuses for their 6-1 vote against naming Trout Run historic.

Now, county attorney John Mathias answers, and the first thing he notes is that it was Scientology that made the genius decision to spend $4.85 million on a parcel of land with the intention of using it for a purpose it wasn’t zoned for. When Scientology attempted its cute end-around past local laws, it assumed all the risk.

And as the county attorney explains, from the very beginning, at least one council member objected to the idea that Trout Run should really be considered historic. Mathias also points out that it was one of SBPI’s own attorneys who first mentioned Narconon to the Council, and not the other way around.

Ultimately, however, the Council had to make up its own mind, and it really wasn’t beholden to what other county bodies might have found, Mathias notes.

The decision whether to add the property to the Frederick County Register was within the sole discretion of the Council. The applicant (Petitioner) not only had the burden of production — to produce sufficient evidence demonstrating that the property met the criteria to be included in the Register of Historic Places, Petitioner also had the burden of persuasion — to persuade each Councilmember that its property should be added to the Frederick County Register of Historic Places. If Councilmembers were not fully persuaded to take the affirmative action to approve Petitioner’s request, they were free to decline to take action — which is exactly what occurred.

Scientology just didn’t prove its case, he explains.

Petitioner erroneously asserts that the County Council was obligated to approve its application to be added to the Frederick County Register of Historic Places, simply because it put forth some testimony and documents containing self-serving assertions that the property contains what some individuals viewed as “historic” structures.

As Mathias points out, other individuals didn’t agree with that assessment at all, including locals who asserted that the structures at Trout Run had all been built after 1945, and that there was nothing particularly historic about a fishing camp.

There’s more to the argument, of course, and we look forward to seeing what you find interesting about the document. Let us hear about it in the comments.

Frederick County Response

 
——————–

Babywatch, day nine: Lisa McPherson in Room 174

On Monday, November 27, 1995, David Houghton, the soon-to-be licensed Sea Org dentist, made another visit in the late afternoon to Room 174 to check up on Lisa McPherson.

This time, his impression was that she was flushed, like she’d been very active. She was still talking incoherently, non-stop. And this time, Houghton had a tougher time doing what he had two days before.

Using a large syringe with a curved plastic end, he attempted to force a stream of orange juice, Benadryl, and crushed aspirin into McPherson’s mouth, down along the side of her tongue. He managed to get it in, but it was more difficult than the time before.

It also didn’t appear to work as well this time. He stayed around for about an hour to see if it made her drowsy. Instead, she walked around for a while and then sprinted for the bathroom, where she stood in the toilet.

Meanwhile, caretaker Valerie Demange reported that Lisa was violent for two hours in the evening.

 
——————–

Jonny Jacobsen makes his first appearance on Media Mayhem

We’re so glad we put Jonny together with Allison Hope Weiner…

 

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Our book tour is concluded for now. (But you can re-experience it through this nifty interactive map!) We’ll let you know about future appearances. Previous events: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29), Sydney (10/23), Melbourne (10/25), Adelaide (10/28), Perth (10/30)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on November 27, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
  • Observer

    Where was it in Canada that the kibosh was put on Ideal Narconon?

    • Kestrel

      Quebec? No, that one wasn’t “ideal.”

      • Observer

        I can’t spell in French, so I’m just going to ask in English: Three Rivers?

        • Kestrel

          What Panopea Abrupta said.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Three Rivers was shut down (ty Dave Love) a few years ago.
      But the application in Ontario was rejected this year.

      • Observer

        Thanks, that was enough for me to find it. Milton.

    • Vaquera

      Narconon Trois-Rivières?

  • Observer
  • Mockingbird

    Here’s a great article by Gerry Armstrong.

    http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/75577.htm

  • pluvo

    David Miscavige goes fishing for trout ……………
    (story told by his former brother-in-law John Brousseau): http://www.villagevoice.com/news/tom-cruise-worships-david-miscavige-like-a-god-a-scientology-insider-gives-first-full-length-interview-to-the-voice-6712350

    “I’m at the Int Base, he and I are married to sisters — Miscavige and Shelly have been married maybe a year. We got a liberty — this was back when Sea Org members got a day off. Since he’s my fucking brother in law, we decide, let’s the four of us drive up to Lake Hemet near Idyllwild. Because it’s spring, a beautiful day, the air is alive with butterflies and birds and bugs — let’s go fishing,” he says.

    “I get four fishing rods and we go up there. We walk along this little path among the ferns and trees on the shore of the lake. We find a shaded beach area, and I’m showing these guys how to fish for trout. We put salmon eggs on a small hook. I tell them how to cast it out, let it sink, and then sit here and wait. I explained how the trout live, and how they’ll eventually come by and swallow the egg and we’ll catch them.
    The girls are laughing and talking, and we’re all a few feet apart. But I noticed that Miscavige was sort of sitting by himself.

    “He was shaking, and his teeth were gritted. He was looking at me with a scowl, and was starting to shake his head. I wondered if he was having some kind of palsy freakout. But then he started yelling at me. I remember exactly what he said…

    “Are you fucking kidding me, JB? This is it? This is how you fucking fish? You just sit here and wait? I feel like jumping in the water and shoving the hook in the fish’s mouth!”

    Brousseau laughs at the memory. “OK, so fishing wasn’t for him. And that’s what he thinks about anything in life. You can’t just let it do what it’s going to do. You have to grab it and shove it down its throat.”

    • burythenuts

      My all time favorite Miscavige story.
      Sums him right up.

      • Nat-leficent

        Total maniac.

    • Observer

      And punch it a few times

    • Liberated

      What a spoiled mean little bitch. Little Davey doesn’t play well with others. He needs his ass kicked so bad I can’t even stand it.

    • daisy

      I am rooting for the fish.

    • Has anyone told him about grenade fishing?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vw7T2yhFek

      • Qbird

        I cannot believe this.
        darwin award worthy.

      • Sherbet

        “We’re gonna need a bigger brain.”

    • mon elle

      Hopefully he was unfamiliar with getting fish via dynamite …

    • OOkpik

      An owl can dream…

  • Narconon Trout Run would need a septic tank and a well. What could go wrong?

    • Nat-leficent
      • B4you

        Eww! they are so full of shit!

        • Missionary Kid

          Literally.

        • Nat-leficent

          You get what you pay for when it comes to using amateur untrained unpaid sea org labor as waste management engineers.

          • Amateur, untrained and unpaid are okay, but the Sea Org part means that they’ll cut whatever corners it takes to solve the problem from their point of view. Shitter is full? Flush it, problem solved! Out of sight, further away than Thursday 2pm? Out of mind.

          • Liberated

            Yeah but it’s free.

      • Too bad Saint Hill’s intake isn’t downstream of their “treated” output.

        • B4you

          That would be a Hill Ten!

        • Nat-leficent

          Ech!

        • flyonthewall

          Hubbard never mentioned anything about Ecoli. What’s the problem?

          • B4you

            and it’s basically just public waste!

            • flyonthewall

              also, blue Asbestos is yummy on crackers

          • Kay

            laugh….not to mention hepatitis, fungi, protozoa and lots of other fun things that can in the human digestive tract.

          • Liberated

            He never mentioned asbestos either. That’s why the Freewinds is rife with it. When the people were rehabbing the ship and discovered huge amounts of the toxic substance, it was forbidden to remove. Just because l Ron didn’t mention it in his “How to Manuel” written in the 50’s . And, as we all know you never alter tech.

      • B4you

        Watching this, i wouldn’t be surprised to see a dead agent sticking out or pink legs

      • Liberated

        I’m pretty sure saving the planet shouldn’t look like this.

      • Kay

        (clearing my throat….tra la la la la) “The Hills are Alive……with the sound of E Coli !!”

      • mon elle

        Impressed by the lack of a gag reflex on the part of the videographer. Assuming the area would be as putrid as Hubbard’s misogynistic views.

        • Kay

          I thought of that too…he/she was probably sneaking around and didn’t want to call attention to him/herself by shrieking. I would have been retching vociferously. Kudos to whomever filmed it.

  • Science Doc

    Do trout run?

    • Nat-leficent

      Do Hubs lie?
      Let’s rewrite all the TR questions!

      • mon elle

        I understand. I’ll repeat the auditing question, did Hubs lie?

  • Kay

    Well….next time I have a psychotic break, I just want ya’ll to know that you should call a Dentist to come see me. Yup, that’ll work.

    • Nat-leficent

      An almost dentist.

      • Kay

        Ah yes…..tis true. The unlicensed almost dentist practicing psychiatry. Works for me…..geez louise.

        • daisy

          I don’t know I have talk therapy with my dentist all the time. Of course my mouth is wide open with a scaler, but hey his psychiatry is free.

          • Kay

            Laugh !

      • Liberated

        Or as Frank Kappa would say a Sear’s dentist.

    • jazzlover

      Would someone like Olivier work?:

      • Kay

        Olivier? You lost me on that one….

        • Observer

          The movie Marathon Man

          • Kay

            I haven’t seen Marathon Man. Does that make a nerd?

            • Liberated

              No

            • Kay

              Thanks…just wondered. 🙂

            • Observer

              I haven’t seen it and I’m a nerd, or maybe a dork. I’ve seen clips of the dental torture scene though.

            • Kay

              Yeah…watched Jazzlover’s clip from the movie….very creepy.

        • jazzlover

          Sir Laurence Olivier — played the evil dentist in “Marathon Man” with Dustin Hoffman.

          “Is it safe yet?”

          • Kay

            Haven’t seen it, but hey if it was Lawrence Olivier…yes he will do. 🙂

            • jazzlover

              I should remember this — when in doubt always use youtube to drive the point home 🙂

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzw1_2b-I7A

            • Kay

              Shivers……..

            • jazzlover

              You’re not a nerd, Kay. That’s a famous chilling movie scene from the 70s, though.

            • Kay

              That IS creepy…….ewww

    • mon elle

      Should we also get you Herbalife protein shakes?

      Or should we just take you to a legit hospital?

      • Kay

        Well, I guess if you are a Scientologist on baby watch, you just force feed me benadryl in orange juice and protein shakes whilst I am intermittently standing in the toilet and yelling psychotic stuff at people.

        • mon elle

          So behaving like __________________.

          • Kay

            Yes, their baby watch teams behave like _______________.

            • mon elle

              Idiots trapped in a prison of belief, confusing the delusional rantings of a sociopathic megalomaniac with severe mommy issues.

              Your decision if I’m talking LRH or COB.

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)
      • Kay

        OK……that was….weird, but appropriate. 🙂

    • daisy

      That poor dog is actually smiling, talk about your abusive relationships

      • Nat-leficent

        . . .

        • Kay

          Laughing !!!!!!!! You kill me Nat..

        • aegerprimo

          HOW did you do that Nat?
          (Shhhhhh don’t give away your shoop secrets)
          You are awesome. ♥

        • daisy

          Put a pork chop around the Dave*s collar and we would see a fair fight.

      • Kay

        “but the kitty shows me so much love afterwards” 🙂

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    — ..-. ..-. / – — .–. .. -.-. / … — -.– .-.. . -. – / –. .-. . . -. / .. … / .–. . — .–. .-.. .

    • Kay

      Is this morse code? Did you fall asleep with your head on the keyboard? Just inquiring….

      • aegerprimo
        • Kay

          Ah……I see now.

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        Morse code.

        • Kay

          Yes I translated with aergerprimo’s help. That is actually quite fun, but then I find that I am easily amused most days. 🙂

          • aegerprimo

            It is easy to get amused at the Underground Bunker.
            So many…. interesting people here.
            I’m an addict, been for a couple of years. ☺

          • daisy

            I swear to God I thought my computer wonky, and I had to take it in, Please everybody quit teasing the daisy.

        • scottmercer

          Morse code is officially archaic technology since the government ceased all use of it in 1999. Which means that Scientology should start using it pretty soon. (I’m guessing Flubtard had to memorize it while in the Navy, no?)

          • Missionary Kid

            Morse code by radio, at the time Flubtard was in the Navy, could reach further than voice communication because the modulation was on/off, instead of including modulation of a voice. Also, it was used for ship to ship communication by blinking lights so that radio silence could be maintained.

            A low powered CW (the term for Morse code) station could cut through static much better than a voice message, or use smaller, more easily hidden, transmitters, which was important for spies.

            Radio stations, such as police radios, identify themselves by periodically sending out a Morse Code identifier. It is also used to identify VOR radio beacons, and other navigational facilities used by airplanes.

            With the advent of electronic translators, packet radio, and all sorts of technological advances, the use of Morse code has become archaic for Ham radio operators, and is no longer required to get a license.

            There are actually two different kinds of Morse code. One that used to be used by the railroads, and another by radio operators. They are, as I understand it, pretty close.

      • Missionary Kid

        http://morsecode.scphillips.com/translator.html

        Sebastian: OFF TOPIC SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE

        mon elle: AND THEY TASTE DELICIOUS WITH EXTRA BUTTER AND SALT

    • mon elle

      .- -. -.. / – …. . -.– / – .- … – . / -.. . .-.. .. -.-. .. — ..- … / .– .. – …. / . -..- – .-. .- / -… ..- – – . .-. / .- -. -.. / … .- .-.. –

      • daisy

        You are one funny gal with an imagination.

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        -.. — -. – / – …. . -.– / .— ..- … –

        • mon elle

          -… . – – . .-. / -.– . – / .– .. – …. / .- / ..-. .. -. . / -.-. …. .. .- -. – .. / .- -. -.. / ..-. .- …- .- / -… . .- -. …

  • Supper Powers

    Bad news. Active shooter at Planned Parenthood in CO. Don’t know ideology yet.

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29172660/colorado-springs-firefighters-respond-active-shooter-at-planned

    • Nat-leficent

      I know this sounds weird, but hopefully he was just trying a bank nearby . . .
      ETA: Either way it’s awful with people being hurt etc.

      • Kay

        That’s not a weird comment to me….I agree. Simple larceny is easier to understand than hate crimes.

      • Supper Powers

        I know what you mean.

        • Nat-leficent

          I just feel awful that misguided ideals can lead people to murder civilians and bystanders.

      • daisy

        nope stand off in clinic

    • Missionary Kid

      They have captured him alive. Last I checked, they weren’t reporting any fatalities, but they haven’t finished clearing the building, and if there were any, they would have notified the next of kin first.

      • scottmercer

        He shot five police, none dead.

        • Missionary Kid

          At the point of the news report, about a half hour ago, 11 people had been transported to the hospital.

      • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

        3 people are dead, including a police officer.

        • Missionary Kid

          Yeah, thanks for posting that. Sad. The only advantage in capturing the snake alive is tha we might find out what his motives were.

          • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

            I think his motives are pretty obvious. Is there seriously any doubt to them?

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re right. I was thinking more about what exactly his target was. A doctor? The facility? Patient?

            • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

              His target was people who provide and request abortions. He wants to frighten other people from providing and requesting them. I seriously doubt it’s about anything other than that.

              The motivations of people who create terror (and yes, I’m using that word very intentionally) aren’t clear cut. “Religious belief” is their motive.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I have a good excuse for being absent – torture by pirates. Actually, kite flying pirates who then (this is the totally believable part) forced us to watch ice hockey while lounging on the beach and drink something frozen in some kind of salted glass. They kept trying to get us to believe this was a Florida team. In other words, I am a prisoner of the beach right now. Don’t send Bunker rescue team, thank you. This is too horrible to see, but if you do insit, we could use more daiquiri salt and napkins. Thanks so much.

    http://i.imgur.com/pNdD2dB.jpg?3

    • Supper Powers

      Sounds horrible!
      ETA: continue to have a grand time!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thank you for your compassion. I won’t forget this.

    • Kay

      ooohhhh the beach…I am jealous as I am being snowed upon. sigh

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Oh sorry – it seems too early for snow somehow. Wait, that IS snow I’m shoveling. This really IS terrible. (Better?)

        • Sherbet

          Shaved ice for that something frozen in some kind of salted glass.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            [shhhhhhh]

            • Sherbet

              Chin chin!

        • Kay

          🙂

    • Sherbet

      Oh, you poor thing! I can see one source of your misery, that big screen blocking the view.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I, I, I can’t talk anymore. It’s all a bit too much. No really too much, I keep going in and out of turkey coma Still and my stomach is registering an addtional 10 pounds which it tells me is mostly that evil bread stuff.

        • Sherbet

          Please, don’t strain yourself. Rest, get better, think good thoughts. I’ll say a novena for you.

        • Kay

          Ah yes, the evil bread stuff…..much more cunning than the turkey by far.

        • aegerprimo
    • Liberated

      We’re on it Mr. Hole.

    • aegerprimo

      I don’t leave the house on Black Friday. Prisoner of the Beach looks like a nice way to leave the house.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Bummer you were on call today! Mr Hole and I have worked holidays most our lives so we’re enjoying doing normal holiday stuff with family and friends when they’re in town.

        • aegerprimo

          Doooo eeeet! Lucky Ducky.

        • Baby

          Oh you guys are suffering so much.. The Pain..The Pain.. Have fun and give Mr. Hole a hug for me. xo baby

      • Kay

        Isn’t that the weirdest thing??? Like everyone is on some kind of code 3 run in the middle of the night to the nearest black friday retailer. My idea of HELL is being stuck in any store on black friday.

        • aegerprimo

          I don’t get the whole Black Friday thing either Kay. Code 3 = LOL !!! (or code blue)
          Buying stuff has never been an emergency for me.
          I just don’t get or understand people who want to go out on a crazy shopping day to get a good deal.

          • Kay

            Me either…I would rather put up my feet, watch movies and shop the online sales so someone can just wrap and deliver my christmas presents to my lazy behind at my house. 🙂

            • Kay

              (That is if it’s a really good sale with free shipping and handling, etc. otherwise it’s too pricey)

            • aegerprimo

              That’s how I roll.

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s all bait to get you into their store.

  • Carlos Machado

    Hi! New reader in here! My name is Carlos and I’m from Brazil. I discovered this site just recently and it’s a pleasure to read. Scientology it’s not a big deal in my country (at least for now), however it has already put a foot troughtout an “Dianetics front”. I do not know if this front is going to progress or give any money to the Scientology, but I can surelysay that they gone have a hell out of trouble to progress in here.

    • OOkpik

      Welcome, Carlos from Brazil.

    • Liberated

      Welcome , Carlos looking forward to hearing your insights. You will always have a friend here. I’m pretty new myself began in October.

    • Sherbet

      Hi, Carlos. What exactly is the Dianetics front that they are promoting in Brazil?

      • Qbird

        According to scn [dot] org there are 3 missions in Brazil. Two have the word “Dianetica” in the name.
        More details will be lovely.

        • Carlos Machado

          I wiil try to reaserch a little more, but as far as I know there is less than 30 people in that scientology front. I wiil take time to get a little more.

          • Qbird

            Thank you, Carlos. How did you come to the underground bunker?

            • Carlos Machado

              Long story…. But I wiil try to resume. Wikipeadia => Ex-Scientolgy kids => Jeff Hawkings (Leaviang Scientology) => Underground

            • Missionary Kid

              I stumbled on this site after confusing Mark Bunker with the Underground Bunker.

          • Missionary Kid

            You can always report things here, and, if you have important news, I’m sure that Tony will be glad to hear from you.

      • Carlos Machado

        I google the words “Dianética Brazil” and I discovered that there is a small mission in the state of San Paulo that is offering “free advices for career” and such stuff. I can easily see in some pictures that the folks in there are not buying.

        • Sherbet

          Thank you. I see.

        • Baby

          Welcome Carlos.. You can Spill the Beans anytime with us.. We love FACTS.. xo baby

    • Kay

      Bem-vindo a você Carlos . Estamos felizes em ouvir de você !!
      (I don’t know portuguese, just used the internet translator)

      • Carlos Machado

        Thank you! hey, the translator works good!

    • mon elle

      Olá … welcome.

      This is a warm, friendly community. Unless it isn’t.

      Everyone here has the best of intentions. Except for the occasional person who doesn’t.

      Don’t take things personal. Unless they are intended to be.

      Welcome to a world of exes, never-ins, jokesters, sock-puppets and the best Scientology news and information this side of the Internet.

      • Kay

        “This is a warm, friendly community. Unless it isn’t.”

        Love the disclaimer….LOL.

    • chukicita

      Boa noite, o senhor!

    • Bernie

      Yay Carlos on finding this site. Have fun!

  • Franklin Adams

    Why isnt this interesting?

    Most of you probably don’t know this, but Frederick County’s host to a ton of emergency communications and Continuity of Government facilities, as well as the cryptographic keying facilities that are owned by AT&T, and a pathway for the president to get to Site R from Camp David. NETC is also there, and they’re host to both the Emergency Management Institute and the National Fire Academy as well as a communications facility supporting Site R, Mount Weather and Olney.

    I know continuity programs pretty well, and noone involved is about to let Scilons get permission to develop property that just so happens to be right in the middle of the Microwave Line of Sight links between Mount Weather, NETC in Frederick, the Olney Federal Support Center further south closer to DC, and Site R just over the Pennsylvania state line. Simply not going to happen. They won’t ever say that’s the reason, but I guarantee you that’s the reason.

    I’d be interested in the backgrounds of some of the people who said the property wasn’t historic because I’d be willing to bet its illuminating in that regard. That or the polite gentlemen in dark suits made damned sure that nothing would come of it in regard to the county government.

    Stupid move on Davey’s part. He should have maybe taken a look at the map, that or he figured he could get away with trying to intercept some of the most close hold information that the Feds generate.

    • If someone in the middle of the Microwave Line of Sight links can do anything, they need better encryption.

      • Franklin Adams

        Of course its encrypted. Noone would get anywhere with any of it, but do you really think they realize it? The Soviets tried this same kind of thing by buying a youth hostel near Mount Weather back in the 60’s. I doubt the KGB or GRU got anywhere with it either.

  • Sandy

    If you missed the Nat’l Dog Show on Thanksgiving, it’s getting a rerun right now on ch NBC.

  • JustCallMeMary

    So good to see Jonny Jacobsen getting media attention to his excellent and important journalistic work. Especially through this interview with the knowledgeable Allison Hope Weiner at Media Mayhem!

  • ShoopZ

    Follow me up the Pyramid To Total Freedom (refresh)

  • Ivan Mapother

    Off topic and third hand but here it goes: After the Thanksgiving feast, the family was scrolling through the pay-per-view and when the MI5 coming soon screen came up, my niece related a story of a college buddy. He’s from the New Orleans area and decided to take a semester or two off and work. Last month, he landed a job on the new Jack Reacher movie as an electrician’s “bitch.”( Her term, an apprentice to you or I.) Any way, having a few beers with some stunt men on night, the subject of Tom Cruise came up. It seems some of the whispers are that Tom is off his game on this movie. Because he does his own stunts, he usually trains six to eight hours a day for three months prior to shooting, Because of his back-to-back shooting schedules, he missed that regimen. There was a fight scene scheduled for a day and it ended up taking two and a half. One of the stunt men said Tom couldn’t hit his marks, screwing the camera angles. He missed lines and just seemed un-focused. Nothing was said on set in front of the entire crew, but the word is, back in the trailer, Tom blamed the second unit director and crew, the stunt coordinator and his stunt men and even a couple of extras.
    Like I said, third hand but take it as you want.

    • Missionary Kid

      That’s pure $cientology: blame everyone else.

      • Liberated

        Do you think he’s trying to get people fired?

        • Missionary Kid

          I don’t think so. I think he’s just not accepting any responsibility and being an asshole, but that’s just an opinion.

    • Chee Chalker

      It’s his man boobs… They are murder on the back

    • Sherbet

      If that’s true, it’s rather interesting.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Oohhh, that is interesting. Wonder if it’s just his aging body catching up with him, or if some of that entheta’s finally getting thru and he’s distracted. Thanks for sharing the goss!

    • madame duran

      In other words, Tom is doing the usual of blaming others for his mistakes and limitations. There’s an SP lurking on the set! *chuckles*
      This thought has crossed my mind several times: Cruise makes a crucial error during one of his stunts and either dies or is seriously injured as a result. It’s not something that I wish to happen but I think his headstrong, self-assured “invincibility” could lead to that scenario. He doesn’t know when to quit.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Thank you Ohio. Finally got my 5 way skyline chilli. Mmmmmm. Refresh

    • DTL

      I guess it’s not bad if you are really hungry.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Had to try it at least once. Does the cinnamon in the chilli offend your palate?

    • daytoncapri

      Good for you! Not everyone is willing to go up to five. Cincinnati style chili is unique, and totally unrelated to, and should never be confused with Tex Mex foods. Except for the raw onions, it is easy going, mellow comfort food invented by Greek immigrants. Gold Star Chili is another local chain.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I had the Coney too. With the habanero cheese. I had to try it the right way, you know? Went to the airforce museum today too. Awesome! And Mendelssohn warehouse store downtown. I could spend days there on the third floor with all of the electronics and old parts.

        • daytoncapri

          Why o why o are you in Ohio? Mendelsons is an amazing place, my Dad worked inthere when it was a Delco factory. Do they still have a human elevator operator?

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Yes, they still run the elevator with attendant. She was NOT happy about me video capturing the ride. “Oh no, sugar, you best not be filming me. I do not want to be on your movie.”

            • daytoncapri

              Years back, she was identified as THE last public elevator operator in Ohio.

  • ReallyMGM

    I have a very thick skin. But today it was pierced. As a mentioned yesterday one do the reasons I came to the Bunker (aside from my #1 reason of connecting with people who had like minded views do Scientology) was to erase stupid stereotypes from FB. So what do I read today? A litany of stereotypes of people from the south.

    I won’t even try to defend because your minds are made up. But to say I am stunned is an understatement.

    • Sandy

      Huh?

    • Missionary Kid

      My stereotypes were based on observations of a particular segment of society 50 years ago when I lived in the south for 2 years. I never saw any “whites only” signs, but many of the social rules were unspoken. On the other hand, I met some wonderful people who didn’t look at skin color and treated everyone equally. The thing that I, as a person who grew up mostly in the West, and who had spent a lot of time in the Midwest, learned was that there was far more interaction between blacks and whites than there were in other parts of the country because people lived close together and worked in close quarters.

      There were a lot of people who didn’t care what color your skin was, and there were a lot of people who cared more what class you were from. I believe that in many places, the South has made more progress than many places in the North.

      I found the movie, The Help to be an idealized version of the changes that were going on in the South, unfortunately. At least it showed that change was possible.

      The woman being discussed, originally from Mississippi, is 78 years old, whose racism was set well before I got to the South. Thank goodness that type of person is dying off, and most Southerners have adopted more enlightened attitudes about race. (She wouldn’t eat brown eggs because of her prejudice. How stupid is that?).

    • OOkpik

      I’d like to think they were merely playing with stereotypes and “going with the flow” in that thread and have no ill will towards people from the south in general. Hope I’m right. I can see how it might be hurtful.

    • Supper Powers

      Can you explain further, please? I saw and participated in discussions. I’m confused.

    • Sandy

      Oh, for cripes sake. Are you talking about the thread about the eggs?

      • mon elle

        I think so …

      • ReallyMGM

        I remember. Uncalled for and nothing to do with the spirit of the Bunker. Sorry it happened to you.

      • ReallyMGM

        And it had nothing to do with eggs. The color of eggs is determined by the breed of the cgphicken that lays them. Educational moment for the person who made the dumb statement.

        • jazzlover

          I wanted to inject a thought or two because it’s my natural inclination to play devil’s advocate. Thank God I thought better of it.

    • salin

      I have been off line – am trying to find the conversation.

    • Observer

      I didn’t take it as a stereotype. It’s one particular person who isn’t representative of anyone but herself.

      • Nat-leficent

        Yep.

    • Sandy

      I have had a poster rag on me cuz my roots are Scandinavian vs Irish. So it goes. It doesn’t matter.

      • salin

        Raggin’ on the Scandanavian … let me attem – those are fighting words! Descendants of Vikings (+ other) unite! (Just kidding – not the descendant part – but the fighting part)

        • Sandy

          Thanks. She was pretty mad… lol

          • Sherbet

            I don’t remember that at all, but it’s hard to imagine somebody being serious about your heritage. That’s nuts.

            • Sandy

              it is okay. She was all upset upset about that poor kid’s death, and I challenged her “Irish” reaction. I should of just let it go.

            • Sherbet

              Oh, so you started it. JUST JOKING! We’re all friends here.

            • Sandy

              Yeah. I said something about her being “oh, so, you know everything about being Irish” by being in this country – my bad. I should of just shut up. That is why I truly try to keep my mouth shut.

            • Sherbet

              It’s funny how sometimes an innocent discussion can turn into a nasty skirmish. It’s happened to me, and it was very upsetting. When I’ve seen that other person in the Bunker, I say absolutely nothing. Sometimes that’s the safest approach.

            • Sandy

              Thanks. It is upsetting.

            • Sherbet

              You never know when someone’s had a bad day or personal problems, and they pick a fight where there is none. They may not have meant any harm. Just let it go, like that %$#*& Disney song. 😀

            • Sandy

              It is gone.

            • Sherbet

              Good girl.

          • salin

            I have participated on a politics/news group for years. I have seen the stereotypes and generalizations become heated, dismissive and hurtful specifically to those in southern states.

            When I found the thread I tried to put those glasses on (as in a reader from the other group – working through dismissive vitriol) as best I could to see what she was seeing. ReallyMGM strikes me as a kind soul, and a valuable bunkermate.

        • Sherbet

          (salin, how are you doing?)

          • salin

            We had the family memorial this afternoon and a dinner afterwards. Too short notice for a full service, but grandkids were in town (those not planning to come for T-giving – flew in the day after Mom had the stroke). It was good.

            It has been so busy, that the ‘silence’ hasn’t really kicked in – so aside from having a tiny appetite, I seem to be moving forward. I have more support than I realized.

            Don’t get me wrong – this is really hard (which is natural.) It is surreal (a week ago was a fantastic day with Mom). Keep asking, it means a lot and makes me do a mental self-check on the day.

            • Sherbet

              I’m glad you’re coping OK. Beware of people who tell you how to mourn and how long to mourn. Just do what you need to do and feel.

            • salin

              Thanks.

      • Missionary Kid

        You can’t trust those Vikings. After all, look at all the countries they invaded or pillaged.
        I’m of 100% Swedish descent.

    • salin

      Really MGM,

      I found the thread, and I can understand that the wife’s attitude/comments fit a stereotype that has oft times (in many places on the web, in print and other media) been cast across a whole region. But in this conversation, I didn’t see the wide cast net generalizing from her to the broader American ‘South’.

      I have heard some pretty outrageous bigoted statements made in far flung northern and western parts of the US. The holiday conversation could have just as easily been from a relative or in-law of someone here in Indiana (where the Klan ran the state in the 20s), or in Carmel, California (where I grew hot under the collar in a checkout line back in the 90s when the checker treated a customer like dirt because of the color of her skin), or in numerous rustbelt regions (and I could go on an on). Just read the Indianapolis Star comments on political news stories to get a douse of closed-minded prejudice and bigotry – not all comments (more voices are countering the bigotry than did even 5 years ago).

      I don’t think I am alone in holding some negative sentiments about individuals who cast judgement upon others based on things like race – and I think that was what the conversation was about. However, I don’t judge the south in this way (generalize out). Nor do I judge the whole of my state (in which some of my fellow citizens could have made similar statements – and it would be those individuals who I would judge based on their statements/actions.) That is what I read in terms of the tone of the conversation. I didn’t read it as a whole-sail closed minded judgement against people in the South.

      Then again, perhaps not being a southerner (but I am just two states north – and I think they are not that different), I am missing what you are seeing. Sorry that the conversation rubbed you raw. Peace.

      • Sherbet

        Nicely said, salin. <3

      • ReallyMGM

        I really hesitated to say anything at all. It had nothing to do with the eggs. I thought that was funny, honestly. I have never been anything but kind to every single person in the Bunker, but I saw this going in a way that was going in a way that might affect my interaction here. It probably has, by my speaking up.

        • Nat-leficent

          I doubt that! If you can let it go or figure it out with her what she meant. I can’t recall Vaquera ever having a bad word for anyone. Like, ever.

        • salin

          Nope, it shouldn’t at all (affect interaction here). Speaking up keeps communication flowing and keeps everyone growing.

        • OOkpik

          There’s nothing wrong with expressing your discomfort, in fact it is admirable. You bring a lot to the Bunker and this was no exception. Dialogues can be very healing and I love that you cared enough to say something rather than just slinking off. It shows your depth of character. <3

    • Qbird

      A review of that OT thread real quick like, ReallyMGM, if you don’t mind.

      Vaquera (from Texas) is related by marriage to an elderly woman who was born & reared in the South (Mississippi). She won’t eat brown eggs bc of their color. She has a dog named “Grits”.

      That’s not stereotype – those are the serviceable facts. As usual, many mini-conversations spun off of these presented facts.

      I was born in the south (Louisiana) as were both my parents, and theirs too. I was raised in the west (California). I currently live in the northern mid-west (Minnesota), but before that I lived in the south again (Florida) for a goodly time. Just got back from there as a matter of fact.

      I personally did not feel offended by the thread… but that’s just me. Guess I’m the all around American… born under a wandering star.

      I am sorry your skin was pricked however. Glad you’ve said what you’ve said and let your feelings be known. Honestly, that’s what the bunker is about. Yah?

      Good thing there are so many other threads of conversations to consider.

      You’re okay MGM. Gotta roll on between the ditches.

      • Sherbet

        You’re a wise bird, Q.

    • Nat-leficent

      I thought everyone was talking bigots not Southerners.

    • mon elle
      • Nat-leficent

        Is this the first TS video posted on the bunker? If so, it’s all downhill from here right? XD

        • Sherbet

          I think it’s cruel to have to look at Swift in all her skinniness after eating the way some of us did yesterday.

          • Nat-leficent

            She too will age. We all do.

            • Sherbet

              Yeah, today, if I try to shake it off, I have to take Advil.

            • Nat-leficent

              *snort-laugh*

            • mon elle

              When I shake it off it’s got the sex appeal of a fruit jello salad.

        • mon elle

          Hey … I’m doing my civic duty to avoid any ….

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcIy9NiNbmo

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Cranks who were prolific pulp fiction writers whose imaginations got away from themselves, who authored “new religions” where Xenu’s body thetans need a whole Bridge to Total Freedom brigade of billion year contracted dupes to administer ministerial (auditor) high volume exorcism to get rid of the “body thetan” surplus (Xenu caused the Wall of Fire trauma “4th Dynamic Engram” trauma of all traumas), well what do you expect!

    The world just has to contend with the messes that people like L. Ron Hubbard pulls on the population of earth!
    Thankyou Tony Ortega for contending with this mess of L. Ron Hubbard’s!

    You and Jonny Jacobsen and Allison Hope-Weiner, thankyou three very much!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex lifer dupe Sea Orger, 1975-2003

    • Mockingbird

      Technically since you escaped with your life you aren’t a lifer. Many people tragically die in the cult.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I get my meaning of lifer from my dad, a 30 year lifer in the US Army.
        when I was a kid growing up n US Army bases all over Germany we kids used to rag the “GIs” (Army soldiers) by shouting the derogatory taunt at them, we would shout:

        “Reup lifers!”

        To the US soldiers, any of them, to each other, would sarcastically think of any of themselves as “lifers” if they “Reup’d” (Re Up, means Re Enlistment for another term of duty, like for an additional 5 years or more block of years commitment to the military.)

        Men/women soldiers who became career soldiers were “lifers”.

        Thus, transfering the meaning “technically” in US military parallel jargon wise, any Sea Orger who thinks they are going to be in the Sea Org for “life” is a “lifer.”

        Technically.

        • Techie

          That’s funny Chuck. In the PAC RPF we would refer to those who did not seem to be making progress as “lifers” in a derogatory way. “Get your twin in session, bud, do you want to end up being a lifer?” for example.

          A true Sea Org member is a many-lifer, however many lifetimes it takes to achieve one billion years. Of course this had little impact on day-to-day affairs, but once when I was pretty certain I was leaving a good friend reminded me that the contract was for a billion years. I think she kind of twigged that I was in exit mode, though of course anyone who was actually leaving could not say anything about it or make the slightest hint in that regard. That would make leaving endlessly more complicated. So I nodded and smiled and said “Oh yes, one billion years, of course”, all the while thinking “and I am going to break that contract for good in a few days!”

          She ended up leaving too, though a few years later. {Camiilla Andersson)

          However, though a Sea Org Member can leave the Sea Org, a trace of it remains. I still eat my dinner in a fourth of the time that my family does, and those dreams have never quite left me. The Sea Org keeps peeling off in layers.

          We are lifers, you and I, Chuck, in some ways permanently damaged but getting better every day. Like the alcoholic in a 12 step program, at every meeting he still says “I am ____ and I am an alcoholic” even if he has been on the wagon for thirty years.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Ha, so Sea Orger is either lifer tripled or lifer quadrupled.

          • Missionary Kid

            I still eat fast from my start in the military when we only had a short time to eat. I am slowing down, though, after nearly 50 years.

        • Mockingbird

          I am certainly happy that you managed to escape. To me some lifers escape from Scientology is no less difficult than a prisoner escaping from a life sentence in a maximum security prison.

          After decades in Scientology the mental traps are nearly insurmountable.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            The old prison of belief phrase of Lawrence Wright’s is apt.

  • order66

    “Petitioner erroneously asserts that County Council was obligated”, “simply because it put forth some testimony and documents containing self-serving assertions.”
    Translation: scientology is once again essentially saying, “Give us what we because we say so. After all, we’re better than you.” You know, I used to find their arrogance infuriating, then amusing. Now, I’m just tired of it.

    On a lighter note, spent Thanksgiving with my folks, my godparents, and their kids and grandkids. Finally got to visit the Toy and Action Figure Museum in Pauls Valley, Oklahoma. If anyone is ever in that neck of the woods, stop by. I had to pray to the Star Wars display, and a person could spend a week looking at all the Batman memorabilia.

  • DTL

    I am sorry some might have a case of broken dreams, but there is really no excuse left to remain in scientology.

    • Liberated

      No excuse in the world !

  • Margie8

    I wonder what kind of gifts the council has received lately? And I hope they’re watching their kids, pets and homes, God knows how scn will react to not getting their way. From what I’ve read about things they’ve done, I’d be nervous.

  • Margie8

    I especially liked the man who testified, a Mr. Rockhill from Anne Arundel County, that HIS research revealed that
    the rehab center that has the best overall statistics of success is
    Narconon.

    Oh PLEASE show me your research…PLEASE!

    • Sherbet

      Well, that’s true. If you go by their claim, they have the best overall statistics of success. 70-75%, is it? However, we all know that narconon pulled that claim out of thin air. Or other places.

      • DTL

        78% sounds more legit. 87% on Thursdays.

        • Sherbet

          You’re right. 70-75% is too pat. 78% sounds as if there really was some research done on the statistics.

          You changed your name. Aw.

          • DTL

            People kept asking what DodoTheLaser means, as if I have the answer.

            • salin

              That makes me smile – don’t know why – but I love the name. Cryptic. Superhero-esque. Just come up with a standard cryptic response – and go back to the name.

              Or we might just harass you with questions of the meaning of DTL – daily until that hassle is worse. 😀

            • Sherbet

              I’d always think of Lazar Wolf, the character in “Fiddler on the Roof.”

            • Chee Chalker

              Kind of like when New Kids on the Block went to NKOTB

            • Margie8

              LMAO!!!

            • Cosmo Pidgeon

              Thanks for turning me on to Chris Whitley.

            • DTL

              Welcome!

            • B4you

              So what does DTL mean?

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    BREAKING NEWS: The Sea Organization announces its new theme song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw

    • Margie8

      Ah yes, my innocent 10-year-old self asking my dad, “My friends said they’re gay, Daddy. What’s that mean?” “Happy, honey. They’re just very, very happy.”

    • Margie8

      YES! Got to watch “Just a Gigolo” after “In the Navy!” Ahh, great memories! Man, I’m old. Love me some David Lee Roth ♥

  • Supper Powers

    Removed

    • Sherbet

      Me, too.

  • Baby

    Post 1

    O/T I have observed people all my life. It really came in handy writing my Mental Health Reports. Here is my Observation from Yesterday while picking up my 4 dinners at the Church.

    No Church named mentioned.

    I googled the Church. Isolated spot down dirt roads.. Off the beaten path.. I am glad my husband came along. Just sayin.

    I have been exposed to many many economic climates. From the richest of riches to urban blight of Detroit..Toledo..down in the Hood. I always felt comfortable. Just blended in whenever the situation called for. I am a hick from a small town in Ohio..It’s the closest thing to being a Hillbilly. I have gone to Wedding Receptions where woman wore plastic bread wrappers around their feet because they took their shoes off because they hurt and didn’t want to get their nylons dirty..I get it.

    I get the poverty in Southern Ohio where my Ex lived. Appalachian.. and yes I understand economic conditions.

    That said. When we finally discovered the church.. it just freaked me out. It was the kind of church that people spoke in tongues and had snakes in their sermons. Very Small Dilapidated like Church/house structure..would never have found it without google.

    When we pulled out a really Pasty Guy ( Who looked like Lurch) came out of this little shack took a look at us and went inside and put something beside the structure. I am sure it was a shot gun. He had stark white hair.. and didn’t smile..just watched us go in .. I grabbed my hubby’s hand and said.. ” OMG.. where in the hell are we? ”

    We were the last of the Pickups and every person in their worked for the church. On the left was a child that again was very pasty white.. who looked like the kid playing the banjo in deliverance. I worked with the MR community. I have compassion.

    Every single person in there ( 7) looked Mentally Retarded .. but not the clients I worked with. Different. Like they hadn’t been out in the sun for 30 years. Hair styles from 40 years ago. Unclean. No one smiled at us. There was something ” OFF” about every one of them..

    A fragile lookin old woman.. I guessed maybe 95.. she was of a mixed race..but I could not identify the races.. Thinning hair on top with a little bun. The kind of woman you would like to get to know and talk about her history. Other woman pulled out our dinners. The older woman ” Tillie” made the Pecan pies.. Her eyes told the story of secrets long forgotten. But ( And I have never said it before) she just creeped me out.They all creeped me out.

    No eye contact..no thank you.. No nothing..Just blank stares..out of date clothes, No schooling .. Dialect was a Southern Drawl mixed with their own language between them.

    We hustled out of there. The Pasty looking Tall Guy was beside the old shed..and Shouted.. ” REWARD THEM!”

    I said.. ” Oh we did..WE DID..” I turned to my husband and I said.. ” OMG.. the dinners came to $28 and you gave them $30.. and I told the creepy guy that you REWARDED THEM! He’s gonna go in there and find out you only gave them $2 bucks.. HIT THE GAS..”

    Hubby was laughing so hard that as he pulled away he said..” He didn’t say REWARD THEM.. He said..
    ” REWARM THEM..” bawwwwwwwwwhahhahahaa Cont.

    I go back by myself….

    • Sherbet

      Dyin’ laughing at the punch line. REWARM THEM! Hilarious!

      • Baby

        The look on his face when I had them in my hands and shouted..” OH I ALREADY DID..” bawwwwhahahhaha

    • Nat-leficent

      Lol. Sounds like Pentecostals to me, Love.

      • Sherbet

        Church of the Rewarded Dinners

      • daisy

        My girlfriend in high school was the daughter of a Pentecostal minister. They often spoke in tongues spooky. I learned every bad habit I had from her.

        • Nat-leficent

          I was raised a Pentecostal. Totally a mind-control group.

          • daisy

            I can see that. Speaking in tongues is something to witness.

            • Nat-leficent

              Not even close.

            • Robert Tilton is just a grifter wannabe who grafted some speaking in tongues into his schtick. But I love the track.

            • Nat-leficent

              🙂

            • Nat-leficent

              Um, it’s creepy as fuck to watch that many people lose touch with their rationality all at once.

            • daisy

              I remember it as scary, I honestly said at the time whispering, What the F?&*%K is going on. She got mad at me for swearing. You were raised in that. I am sorry that is really screwed up. I hope my friend didn’t fall into it. We lost touch.

            • Missionary Kid

              Hey, you’re describing a rock concert. Watch it!

            • Nat-leficent

              Been to both. Church had a waaaayyy creepier vibe.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re probably right, but I worked a couple rock concerts that were fairly creepy.

            • Baby

              Creepy is right Nat.. how traumatizing.. sigh .. my poor sweet Nat. So glad you guys got out..

            • daisy

              Yep I definitely remember the crying. My girlfriend and I used to look at the Hymnals and read double meanings into them, we would be laughing so hard we were shaking . I used to tell her to let her parents think we were crying. I never realized til this moment how f?&?ked up it was for crying to be preferable than laughing . We were teenagers

            • Missionary Kid

              I used to leg wrestle in the pews with my friends. I could make it look like they suddenly had a fit and slipped to their knees while I was still sitting up. I also learned to sleep sitting up, yet to gather enough of the sermon so I could pass my mom’s quiz about the sermon at the dinner table.

            • daisy

              I didn’t realize how good it was to be raised by an atheist. I was always sad that I couldn’t go to Sunday school . Some neighbors would take us heathens to church once in a while. I have learned from this blog how lucky I was.

            • Missionary Kid

              I had my kids go to different churches as an inoculation. They were raised in the Unitarian Church, which has a lot of atheists in it.

            • daisy

              Why would an atheist go to the Unitarian Church or any church?

            • cedilla

              Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion characterized by a free and responsible search for truth and meaning.

            • daisy

              Thank you for the info. We have one in town, I may check it out. I like the fellowship and charity of a church, but could do without the fundamentalism.

            • Missionary Kid

              Because Unitarian Unaversalist churches treat Jesus, as well a Buddha, Moses, and Muhammad as men who had wisdom to offer the world, but were not necessarily representative of a deity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalist_Association

              Some of the strongest atheists I know I met there. Basically, it’s a humanist organization. Whether or not you want to believe in a god is your business.

              Unitarianism traces its roots back over 400 years, with a start in the rejection of the trinity. The two President Adams and Jefferson, among the founders, either attended the Unitarian Church or considered themselves Unitarians. The movement was originally Christian derived. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

            • daisy

              Thank you very much kid that is interesting. My dad was an atheist, we never attended church growing up. My mom and I attended a sensible church ( she cannot now ) it gives both of us solace. I think evangelical , fundamentalist churches and a lot of Christians do more to hurt faith than help it. Some real churches actually do help people in need, I like that.

            • Missionary Kid

              The Unitarians withdrew from the Boy Scouts over the Scout’s stance on gay scouts and

              leaders and those who are non-believers. Several of the pastors that I know are gay, and an integral part of the movement. They believe in helping others and do not engage in the type of entitlement behavior that Christians, especially the fundamentalist groups, engage in.

              A prime example of the entitled behavior that evangelicals engage in is discussed today over at the Raw Story: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/heres-why-good-christians-do-bad-things-to-win-converts/ $cientologists have a similar attitude of entitlement to do what they want, regardless of laws.

              One Winter Solstice celebration, I read from the bible the story of the birth of Jesus, and it is such a simple, beautiful story that even the most dedicated atheists enjoyed it. I read it to illustrate all of the additional trappings that have been added to the story in subsequent years. I’m an atheist myself, after spending about 30-40 years as an agnostic.

              I look at all of the crap that $cientologists have added to Hubbard’s life story and consider that probably the same thing happened to the story of Jesus’ life, but, of course, there’s no independent way to fact check the story. The gospels weren’t written until at least 30, and possibly 100 years after Jesus was hung, so a lot of mythology was probably added, IMO. For example, there probably never were any disciples named Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

            • daisy

              Thanks for the link. I haven*t read it yet but I plan to. I appreciate the post as well.

            • daisy

              Quizzes , thank God nobody tested me. In my family you were laughed at for going to church.

            • Nat-leficent

              This is very close to what I remember it being like — brought on by hours of preaching, repetitive hypnotic songs and clapping and emotional praying and “laying of hands”

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_NNLZiusg

          • Baby

            I was thinking of you as I wrote this Nat.. Not the poverty part..the Mind control part.

            • Nat-leficent

              My church was wracked by horrid poverty (fresh immigrants) — how else would a person get sucked into that world?
              It’s a way to feel superior to others when society tells you you are dispensable trash.

            • salin

              Tear drops. *F%cking exploiters!*

            • Nat-leficent

              Yeah they sucked in my orphaned migrant grandparents with the promise of “family” and a support system and then interfered with every aspect of our family’s life for seven decades till I became a teenager and left and my dad and sister followed. My cousins are still in it.

            • daisy

              So it really was a cult ? Did they ask for money. What was the scam? True believers?

            • Nat-leficent

              10% of gross annual income, building donations, missionary funds, labor in renovations/food prep/child care etc. It adds up.

            • Missionary Kid

              Even though we didn’t have much money from being missionaries, and my parents, working in secular jobs while I was growing up, did give 10% and time, but it didn’t rule our lives.

              You had it must worse than I did.

            • Nat-leficent

              Nah, I think I’m just more irritable and unforgiving than you XD
              Also being subject to the female rules is usually worse in most forms of fundamentalism. Seems.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re probably right. There is a larger degree of misogyny in Pentecostal churches than what I was raised in. I also had a very capable, professional RN for a mother as an example. My dad wanted me to be a preacher like he and his father were. I declined.

              Women didn’t dress in flashy clothes, but they wore stylish, conservative clothes, wore lipstick and had their hair done.

            • Nat-leficent

              None of that worldly vanity for the ladies of the Iglesia Apostolica de la fe en Christo Jesus. And they wondered why so many men married outside the congregation XD

            • Missionary Kid

              One thing is that you grow up with the other kids in the church, so it seems like marrying a sibling if you do.

              I had a brief crush on a couple of the girls in my congregation, but I always liked the girls I met at school better.

            • Frodis73

              Women always get screwed when it comes to that stuff huh? So glad you saw through it and are OUT.

            • Baby

              When I googled this church for directions.. I went to their web site.. but it was like an International place to donate..

              Not the poverty stricken dilapidated little church..

            • Nat-leficent

              “Uplines”

            • Baby

              Yep. Straight to IAS.. ugh..

            • daisy

              They have a web site , not all hillbilly I guess.

            • Baby

              No Daise.. The church’s name.. if you google it ..it goes straight to the ” MOTHER CHURCH..” Like Scn. there is no mention of the little shamble.

              so they don’t have a website.. ( I doubt they’ve ever been on or seen a computer) It’s a slick website for donations to be sent for missionary work, buildings..blah, blah..

            • daisy

              It doesn’t bode well for me that you have to explain everything twice.

            • Baby

              It is my pleasure to serve you.. xo errrr reserve you..

            • Baby

              Horrible.. Just mind blowing horrible Nat.. damn.. I hope I didn’t trigger memories..Now I feel bad.. I’m sorry.

            • Nat-leficent

              Nah. It’s fun to see how free my mind is now 🙂 I love it!

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s been over 50 years since I left the denomination I was raised in, but I really enjoy the freedom and lack of dogma that had to be consulted for everyday living.

            • Baby

              Paging Nat-leficent to the congeries desk.. Telegram for Ms Nat-leficent ” BUNKER LOVES NAT AND GLAD SHE IS OUT OF THE MIND F*CK..” ( F5)

              [img]http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Laie_13.gif

            • salin

              ((Nat)) 70s years of influence – leaves me speechless. I have sensed your strong spirit – but as a teen to find the strength to leave and lead others: I am awed. I am about to sign out for the night, but would love to talk more.

            • Nat-leficent

              Anytime, my dear.

            • daisy

              Wow that s something, good for you having the presence of mind to see it for what it was and then leaving. So glad family followed.

            • OOkpik

              Even with such a dismal phase in your life, you rose to become the treasure you are today. For you, your dad and sister to be free is heartwarming. I love success stories. ((Hugs))

        • Baby

          I did a lot of things with my tongue in high school..but talkin in tongues wasn’t one of them.

          • daisy

            HOWL

          • Nat-leficent
            • Baby

              You better believe ” OH BOY..” Hey there was nothing to do in that little corner of Ohio.. but PARK

              ( Does anyone remember parking?) I do..

      • daisy

        Is this why you are interested in cults ?

    • daisy

      People wear bags on their feet so their nylons won*t run ? Oh and funny story.

      • Sherbet

        I remember an engineer who used to ride his bike to work, snow, rain, shine. He’d wear Wonder Bread wrappers over his hands to keep them warm and dry. We called him Wonder Boy.

        • daisy

          I understand that a bit better than the nylons, seriously nylons what 3 bucks they couldn’t splurge. ( I realize it was story ambience, but truly a funny detail lol )

        • gtsix

          Growing up, we wore the bread bags inside our boots too keep our socks dry. The versatility of bread bags.

      • Baby

        Daisy.. They didn’t wear the bread bags on their feet to prevent runs.. they didn’t want to get their nylons DIRTY! ha

        • daisy

          Still weird and funny, LOL

    • salin

      Baby, sorry for asking you to repeat yourself – but I missed the back story. How did you and hubby come to be picking up your dinner at this church?

      Great story. I love your stories.

      *manipulation warning*… please distract me for a few more minutes from dwelling on my past week… by telling me why in the world you found yourself in the land of the sun-deprived (in the heart of Florida!), to get Thanksgiving dinner?

      • Baby

        I will give you the link Salin..xo BRB

        • salin

          Thanks, Baby. You always make me smile.

          • Baby

            Well, good.. I remembered and am writing..

      • Baby

        OOps.. I’ll just tell ya.. So hubby fished on Thanksgiving and I delivered pies for my friend all day..didn’t want to cook ..so heard about this church who offered carry out dinners for $7.. Such a deal right?

        Food actually was good.. hesitated about the cleanliness of food.. but didn’t bother me when it came to the pies..hahhahaa

        OH and they weren’t in a sun deprived area in Florida.. They just didn’t go outside..eeeeeep

        • salin

          So it was convenience, affordability + with a touch of total randomness per the where. Awesome start to your surreal story. Thx.

          • Baby

            Yep.. I didn’t feel like cooking.. Well, since I don’t cook..I didn’t want my hubby slaving over a stove while he could be fishing.

            Thinking of you a lot salin.. smooches.. If I were with you..I would just lay next to you on a pillow and gab.. or NOT say anything. Just relax. ..

            JIMMY or L wrong..If you say something Smart I swear I will knock you out..

            • salin

              *Lump in the throat* I really appreciate that thought. Both Jimmy and L Wrong have been very supportive, I trust that they will take your image of virtual support for my sudden loss for the beautiful image of support that it is.

              Goodnight Baby, thank you for the smiles – and comfort.

            • Baby

              Yes they have been..You know I love to tease them..

              Close your eyes when you go to bed and I will have my foot wrapped around yours..

              Night sweet baby girl.. No need to thank me..just glad that you are here. Love baby

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You been cheatin on me with Jimmy now?

            • Baby

              UHM You both have something in common.. It’s the Snark factor. night love..

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I can’t blame you. I’d probably do him too. Ssshhhhhhh, that’s just a cover for your husband in case he ever meets me.

            • Baby

              hahahhahahhaha..OMG

    • Sherbet

      Anyway, their reward is in heaven.

      • Or they’ll be rewarmed in heaven.

        • Baby

          hahahhahaha. OMG.. Artoo.. hilarious.

        • Sherbet

          I always thought the warming happened at the Other place.

          • If there’s an afterlife, I’m sure they have microwaves.

    • Missionary Kid

      I once was in a funeral detail for a Marine who had been killed in Vietnam. It was in a small church on a crossroads close to Ponce de Leon, Florida. The people were definitely rednecks, and I don’t mean because of their attitude, but because they were farmers with the red necks and white foreheads that come from wearing a hat out in the fields.

      The church, made of cinder block sides and a metal roof only differed from an implement shed from the outside in that it had windows and a small steeple. The people were not pasty-white.

      Speaking in tongues is far more common among Pentecostal churches than the ones that handle snakes. (I only know of those in Appalachia). That being said, there are all sorts of weird little churches all over the U.S.

      • ReallyMGM

        ML, instead of redneck its is called a “farmer’s tan.” My granddaddy uaued to have one after working everyday and my husband gets one from working in and out in the hot summer sun.

        Those Pentacostal churches are more common than services stations in some areas down there.

        • Baby

          Yep MGM..absolutely.. and the only stations we get out here in the boondocks are Preachers spreadin the word. And/or the music that comes with it.

        • Missionary Kid

          Don’t I know that those churches are common. Each one has a pastor who gives his interpretation of the bible as they go over it, not realizing that they’re simply sourcing materials that have no questioning of them or different interpretations. There’s really no academic scholarship involved.

          My cousins and uncles who were farmers all had red necks like that. The term ‘redneck’ didn’t have the connotation it does now.

          • ReallyMGM

            Oh people were called “rednecks” but without thought how they got the sunburn on their neck and arms. It was through hard work in the sun. They are good, hardworking people. In that respect, calling someone a redneck is sort of like calling them a wog, a derogatory slur.

            Of course there are the other type of rednecks who are racist fools who still fly their confederate flags. (And are a dying breed, thank God) Those morons have never been friends of mine.

      • Baby

        Interesting. I wouldn’t say these people talk in tongues..or the snake part..but they appeared to have participated in these activities..

        If NOT them who in the hell would be? Good Lord.

        • Missionary Kid

          Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) is fairly common in Pentecostal churches. Not in the majority, I understand, but it is done fairly often.

          You just provided them with some outside income that they probably rarely get.

    • mon elle

      My beloved and I once went to a wedding in a part of the country that is the butt of many regional jokes. We decided that we’d put our prejudices aside and travel the 3.5 hours to the nuptials because of our relationship with the groom; never met the bride in whose town the wedding was held.

      After the groom was an hour late for the event we were looking forward to a reception that was billed as being at the swankiest place in the smallish city’s historic grand hotel. While we didn’t expect to be feted with the greatest of all high end meals (one because of the destination, two because of the humble means of the groom) we were not expecting to be ushered into an upper floor ballroom of a building (likely built between 1890-1930) that had every surface covered in white paint. Crown moldings. Carved wood columns. Covered in white paint with pepto bismal pink applied as an accent.

      We approach the buffet table and discover that it was going to be a simple affair of cold cut sandwiches and potato chips. In the “swankiest place” in town, with the meats and bread stacked just as they had been in their original packaging. Don’t ask about the condiment bottles.

      We spent the evening watching our friend, the groom, trying to enjoy himself despite a new wife intent on making his life miserable for being so late to the wedding; might be relevant there was a 15 year age difference and she was under 20. We drive home, laughing at the sign out of town advertising that we should turn around and drives 3 miles in the other direction for the world’s best pizza.

      We agreed that it’s good to have an open mind.

      We also agreed that sometimes stereotypes are likely rooted in some share of truth.

      • Baby

        Mon Elle.. It humbles you doesn’t it. That was a great story..

        On the other hand..My hubby’s family is wealthy..( not us.. ) and the first wedding I went to was his niece’s .. and it probably cost maybe $80,000.

        I felt just as uncomfortable. People with their noses stuck in the air talking about their latest Vacations and how well their kids were doing.. trying to top each other.

        Last family Weddings I went to. Nope NOT MY WORLD..My hubby and I have an agreement. He doesn’t go to my sister and brother’s events in Mayberry..and I don’t go to his in ” La La Land..”

      • aquaclara

        I have been at that wedding! Just that with the one I went to, there were the nicest people, just in a tiny out of the way town that had had its heyday many decades before.

  • StudentOfLife

    Alright guys and dolls, maybe this interview with the evil one’s first son has been discredited. but I waited until late night (it’s 10:15pm in NY, 7:15 here in Ojai) to post this after finding it a few days ago. I want to find out how much is true given not too many people here will see it since it’s late Friday night, but I’m curious how much of this has fact versus what sounds sensational exageration. Penthouse Interview from 1983 with Hubbard’s son L Ron Hubbard Jr, who later changed his name to Dewolf. He’s who comedian Jamie DeWolf talks about in his famous slam poetry about LieIntology. Some of this sounds plausible. How much has been debunked as B.S? Any clue? Even the stuff about Errol Flynn sounds plausible. This stuff is really creepy. How much rumor versus fact can be confirmed? http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm
    Excerpts:
    Penthouse: And what about this Labor Party official?

    Hubbard: He was a double agent for the KGB and for the British intelligence agency. He was also a raging homosexual. He wanted my father to use his black-magic, soul-cracking, brainwashing techniques on young boys. He wanted these boys as his own sexual slaves. He wanted to use my father’s techniques to crack people’s heads open because he was very influential in and around the British government –plus he was selling information to the Russians. And so was my father.

    Penthouse: Your father was selling information to the Soviets?

    Hubbard: Yes. That’s where my father got the money to buy St. Hill Manor in East Grinstead, Sussex, which is the English headquarters of Scientology today.

    Penthouse: What information did your father have to sell the Soviet government?

    Hubbard: He didn’t do any spying himself. What he normally did was allow these strange little people to go into the offices and into his home at odd hours of the night. He told me that he was allowing the KGB to go through our files, and that he was charging £40,000 for it. This was the money he used for the purchase of St. Hill Manor.

    Penthouse: Do you know any specific information that the KGB got from your father that might have been harmful to security?

    Hubbard: The plans for an infrared heat-seeking missile in the early fifties. They obtained the information by extensive auditing of the guy who was one of the head engineers. There were great infiltrations clear to this day. There has always been an inordinate interest on the part of Scientology in military and government personnel. There’s no way for me to prove it sitting here, but I believe that the KGB trained East German agents who came via Denmark to London to the United States who were, supposedly, Scientologists. They made very good Scientologists. They were very well trained.

    Penthouse: Did your father do this just for money?

    Hubbard: Yes. The more he made, the more he wanted. He became greedy. He was really just interested in the use of money and power, wherever it was or whosoever’s it was. Morality and politics made no difference to him at all.

    Penthouse: Did the Labor Party official get any of his young men via Scientology?

    Hubbard: Yes. The British were ripe for Scientology. The British school system fosters lesbianism and homosexuality, because from the time you’re born until you’re in your twenties, all you see is the same sex. The schools are so segretated. And you’ll notice in Scientology the focus on sex. Sex, sex, sex. The first thing we wanted to know about someone we were auditing was his sexual deviations. You know, in actual fact, very few people exclusively practice missionary-style sex. So all you’ve got to do is find a person’s kinks, whatever they might be. Their dreams and their fantasies. And if you find that central core, their sexual drives and desires and fantasies, then you can fit a ring through their noses and take them anywnere. You promise to fufill their fantasies or you threaten to expose them –very simple. And People do have outrageous sexual fantasies. Nothing wrong with that –I’m the last guy on earth who should make a value judgment about somebody’s sexual practices. But once you find their sexual core, you’ve got them. And you find this by brainwashing, through auditing, through interrogation, investigations, following them, photographing them, tapping their phones, whatever.

    • Missionary Kid

      Tony has written extensively about the man. He worked with Miss Lovely, but also, it appears, betrayed her. He had some real mental problems, IMO, brought about by being around his father. In later life, he needed money, so he signed a retraction of the article.

      Other people can point you to the way to articles on him.

      • StudentOfLife

        I had heard some stories of Errol Flynn that were not far off from this, plus, we know how MI5 agents were working for the Soviets, so it has a hint of credulity. I remember reading about L Ron Jr in TUML, just figured that the Scilons kept punishing him and blackmailing him, so it would make sense he signed an retraction, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t true when he wrote it I’ll use the Bunker search function to find what Tony thinks of this. I hope the Village Voice has same search feature if Tony wrote about him. I only joined the Bunker in February so still a newbie about certain subjects.

        • Missionary Kid

          I am convinced that a lot of the article was true, but I think that the stuff about LRH being involved with the KGB is bullshit. LRH was money hungry, but he lied about EVERYTHING, in order to make himself more important. I read the article when it came out, and I believed a lot of it, particularly the part about LRH stuffing money in shoe boxes.

          I would trust what Jr. actually observed, but even that I’d put an asterisk on. It was a close look at a greedy, power hungry, con man.

    • Margie8

      I’m afraid Jr. was a nutjob because of his father’s influence in his life. That’s crazy because day before yesterday, I read an interview with Jaime DeWolf and some outstanding videos. This one is fantastic:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ

      • StudentOfLife

        Having been in business with two Scilons for the past decade, and confused about all the bad PR despite my two partners apparent integrity (now viewed as a lack of it), despite my own negative experience with Scilons in the mid 1980s just taking a few basic classes, it was this video that I stumbled about Thanksgiving last year and watched several times that started my journey to start looking realistically at Scientology. From Jamie Dewolf to Tory Christman to Jenna Miscavige (then read her book) to Karen Delacarriere and then Tony Ortega and finally Mike Rinder.

        • Missionary Kid

          A horrifying look at Scientology, and a close up one of Mousebrain, is Blown for Good. I was already convinced that Mousebrain had really poor organizational and leadership skills, but the book put an exclamation point on them.

          Remember that ethics in $cientology only means how close a person follows the will of $cientology. It has no relation to ethics in the wog world.

  • Baby

    Post 2 .. O/T

    So one the way home my hubby says.. ” They are Inbreeds.. they freaked me out, man..” It was the most surreal experience. We sat in silence. Driving down this old unattended road.. spooky.. So of course I pulled the pecan pie out of the package and ate it..

    I said.. ” OMG this is the best Pecan Pie I ever ate.. ” Well, we were almost home .. so dropped hubby off and called the church..Yes they would save a Whole pie for me..I assured my hubby I was safe.. but took my 4# for protection.

    OK.. drive again with my GPS.. and Creepy guy outside beside the shed. Stands and watches me as I walked into this pitiful..like Pitiful structure that needed painting 30 yrs ago.

    Tillie the old lady was in the back..and I Yoo Hooed for someone and she came out with her cane.. I thought she would have the pie ready, but no..she asked me what I wanted. I told her I talked to someone from the church about buying her pie..

    Tillie walked slowly toward the back. She had on a dress that had been sewn and resewn.. and with old hose that was wrapped around the bottom of her legs.. To be polite I asked her questions.. she said that she was Half Indian..half black and half white. ( Bless her heart..)

    So I said.. ” Oh Tillie how old are you? ( Any older person loves to tell their age.. because they are proud of the fact that they made it so long)

    And she said..” Well, How old ya think I am? ” I HATE THAT QUESTION..HATE.. but thinking OK..she must be 95 .. so I will say 72.. to make her feel better.

    She beams and says.. ( OK she is all hunched over with a cane.. and something you would see in …shit I don’t know where you would see it..I have never seen a person like any of them)

    She beamed and said sweetly.. ” I am 65..” You could have knocked me over with a freakin feather.. Wait..What..She is like 3 years younger than me? Wait.. Just a minute.. She is younger than me..? I couldn’t wait to find a mirror to see if I was deluding myself.

    We gabbed for an hr. ( Swear to God..) she was from a family of 10..blah, blah.. I was being very gracious, but I kept thinking .. ” Where is the creepy guy from the shed? ” And thank God Lulu was locked in the car with windows down for air ( 73 degrees)

    But she kept on talkin.. and I didn’t want to be rude.. She did say it was nice to meet a stranger cause it had been years since she talked to one.. OMG get me the hell out of here..and where do they keep the snakes for service.

    I drove home so fast.. my tires were spinning .. I walked in and said to hubby.. ” How old do you think that old woman was that we met..I described Tillie.. and he remembered her well.. And he said..

    ” Oh I don’t know probably maybe 94-96.. and I said.. ” Well, you are NOT going to believe this.. ” She is 65! ” and he said..” WAIT..WAIT.. SHE IS 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME!”

    Yep.. PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE PECAN PIE. It still gives me chills thinking about those people in that church..and the shed? Well Tillie told me it was the Preacher’s House..Hmmm that explains alot. shivers..

    • Margie8

      If you’re not a writer, you’re depriving the world of serious talent.

      • Baby

        Margie.. I have been thinking about Freelance.. hmmm

        Once in High school we had to take a person in our small town and write about him/her..

        I wrote about the town drunk ( think Otis from Mayberry) and the time I saw him stumble through town and threw up. He also threw out his false teeth and put them back in his mouth.

        I got an A+ but Mrs Leathers my teacher told me not to show anyone..hahhahahahhaha

        • Juicer77

          BWAhahahahahaha!

        • Margie8

          Freelance is how I started online after years of local magazine writing. You really should consider it!

          • Baby

            Wow..Thanks Margie.. I don’t even know where to start.. Any tips? I thought I would have to have an agent or something. Should I just google or read a book.. ?

            Clueless in Florida. xo

            • Margie8

              A lot of writers start on Elance. It’s basically a service for matching clients up with writers. You don’t need experience and you do NOT need to buy a membership there to get jobs, but they’ll try to sell you one. Some people buy because it’s cheap it has some benefits but I couldn’t tell you what they are! Anyway, a lot of the client’s just want small jobs done like writing descriptions for eBay products but it gets you experience. I would Google “Writing SEO content” and “freelance writing online” to start. I wish I could post my email here . Oh, I have a throwaway! I hope I remember it right, tpfa at gmail. I better double check it, LOL. I’ll edit this if it’s wrong. Shoot me an email and there’s three places I think Ican refer you to.

            • Baby

              Wow thank you Margie. I will save this.. and your email..You are a doll. I studied SEO for my online art shops..

              I will contact you when this stupid Allergy season settles down..My head is Pounding..and both ears are plugged..Gah.. xo baby

              Thanks again friend

            • Margie8

              Sounds good. Sorry about your allergies . Most of my children get them too Let me know here when you email me cause it’s not my regular email. Thanks!

            • Baby

              You are so sweet Margie..thank you..I have so much company during the holidays.. Maybe I’ll start at the New years.. I will let you know..I appreciate it so much.. love baby

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Do not encourage her.

        • Baby

          OK.. Now I am going to do it cause of your big mouth.. how was Ohio?

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I am still in her. She was a little sloppy today.

            • Baby

              Oh for Pete’s sake!

    • daisy

      You have a gift. What we do for pie.

      • Baby

        It is a curse daily.. gift/curse.. cause I remember everything.. Thank you..

    • Eileen

      What a great Thanksgiving story! Thanks, baby.

      • Baby

        Eileen.. thank you.. I felt like I was in a plot about a ” Church Revival Going Bad..” and I witnessed the aftermath.

        I am NOT attempting to make fun of anyone.. It just fascinated the hell out of me that people like this live .. cause they all looked like Zombies, but not as dressed up and less blood.

    • Missionary Kid

      Those people are definitely isolated. She will be talking about the lady who bought the pie for weeks.

      I doubt they play with snakes.

      • Baby

        Tami and the Bakery shop pies are different than this one Kid..

        I thought I only talked about going to the church for 4 dinners a couple of days ago..

        Snakes or not..they just creeped me out.

        • Missionary Kid

          Those people really are living on the fringes of society.

    • outraged

      Oh baby, Praise the Lord and Pass the Pecan Pie!
      Name of your next novel.

      • Baby

        Hahahah.. That sounds like a Winner..

        ” Winner Winner Turkey Dinner..”

    • Juicer77

      Baby you need to write a book. Seriously, I would buy it.

      • Baby

        Ok Juice.. That’s one buyer..ha

        I think everyone has a story inside them..a book..I have always loved to write. I’m thinking about writing about my twin Jude.. before, during and after.

        Every time I sit down to write it though I start crying.. They say to write what you know…and I know that subject well..xo thanks Juice..

    • phoebequeen

      Holyeeey Crap! That is a crazy story.

      • Baby

        Crazy.. AND CREEEEEpy..

        • phoebequeen

          Extremely. Family is from the south, so I recognize some of what you posted in my mind’s eye. The food is fabulous though. My mother made the best pecan pie’s too. Grandmother was an amazing cook.

          • Baby

            Oh phoebe.. you had to be there, huh? Absolutely amazing food..wow..I had cornbread stuffing..OMG.. and they cut the corn off the cob.

            and you know they used fatback in everything. Just Good Ole Country Cooking. I was thinking that they all were so Pasty lookin because they spent all their days in church. xo

  • StudentOfLife

    The more you find out, the more you realize David (Let My Father Die) Miscavige is a really sick bastard, much sicker than I could ever imagine. This story about how his personal secretary is just heartbreaking and shows MissSavage’s real character, if he has any at all. It needs more views. We should have a special posting of escape stories on Youtube one day for all the newbies to the Bunker. This is one of best I’ve found. Love the commenter where he says about Krustie Alley: that fat bitch should be thrown in the darkest hole they have…..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdHEh6toiWI

    • Missionary Kid

      Derek Bloch would agree with that.

      • StudentOfLife

        I hope Derek comes to Leah’s book signing in LA on Dec 8 in Los Angeles or to Howdycon. I would love to thank him for his courage.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’ll ask him.

        • califa007

          Do you know where and at what time is her book signing? I have the eBook but would happily buy the hard copy. Thanks!

          • StudentOfLife

            It’s Tuesday Dec 8 at 7pm at Barnes and Noble The Grove, 189 Grove Drive K30, Los Angeles, CA 90036 (323) 525-0270

            • califa007

              Thank you so much!

            • JaxNGold

              Nice!! I’m so there. I only live about 25 min away.

            • StudentOfLife

              I live an hour and 15 minutes away in Ojai so I will leave early to beat the traffic and spend the day sightseeing in LA, maybe just working a bit at Barnes and Noble (I love bookstores) maybe play some tennis, but most of all would prefer to meet some Bunkerites before the signing and talk about whatever comes up that interests us.

            • JaxNGold

              That sounds great. Would love to meet up with some Bunkeroos before the signing. I’m obsessed with bookstores, too! Lol. Let’s make it happen!

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Why oh why do so many people have to escape over barbed/razor wire in the dead of night from the slave labor internment of a supposed church?

      • StudentOfLife

        The fact that MissSavage tried to pay off the hubby with a check (I love the fact he made a xerox copy of it) to keep quiet says a lot of how this evil cult operates. My life sure looks like I’ve lived a stress free life the more I find out what torture these good people are put through by their so called church. This video alone should make one IRS head just not sleep at night until he calls for the books to be opened to prove that Miscavige never lies and shut everyone up once and for all…..NOT! We all know how that will turn out.

        Hey Tom Cruise, I dream of the day when children all over the world, when they act up and complain to their parents that life is unfair, that parents know the best verbal warning to straighten out their children’s attitude is “How about I send you off to be a Scientologist under David Miscavige” and suddenly the kid shuts up and apologizes for ever being ungrateful. Katie Holmes child Suri is going to grow up very grateful for her life when she reads what would have happened if Daddy had his way.

    • Alice Graves

      Thanks for suggesting a series of escape stories. My all time favorite escape story is the Headley’s, but there must be many more out there that are truly scary and dangerous.

  • Jimmy3

    Just got home, and there is a knock at the door. Two uniformed officers.

    “Hello. Do you know a…” (looks down at notepad) “…a someone named ‘flyonthewall’?”

    “Big bushy beard? Looks like a communist? Loves Legos?”

    “That’s the one.”

    “Doesnt ring a bell, Officer. Sorry.”

    • Missionary Kid

      Are you sure you’re not the kid who plays Peter Pan in the Geico commercial?

      • Jimmy3

        No. No I’m not sure about that. I will check.

        • daisy

          When are going to get that looked at ?

          • Jimmy3

            When I do, you’ll be the first to know. Don’t worry

            • aquaclara

              So is this avi the close up of the shamrock, or an artistic interpretation of what life is like when potatoes get a little bit off on their coloring? The shamrock brought such good luck this year….missing it.

      • mon elle

        They both wear green …

    • Kay

      Flyonthewall has gone into the Witness Protection Program. He is currently making Legos in China. He says he will text you from his burner phone as soon as it’s safe.

      • aquaclara

        What have you done with him? Bring Fly back!

    • Baby

      Oh Jimmy.. You never fail to make me laugh.. Everyone needs a Jimmy3 in their life. night honi

      • Jimmy3

        Night night lil baby

        • Baby

          UHM after yesterday’s pies..I ain’t so little..smooches ..

  • Missionary Kid

    Totally OT. I was watching Charlie Rose interview Tom Jones. Towards the end, they showed clips of Jones singing with all sorts of other singers. The one that blew me away was him with Janis Joplin.

  • Baby

    Night everyone.. Going to relax and check for a movie and snuggle with doggies.. Love you all.. xo baby.. Be good to each other in here.

    • daisy

      Thanks for the story, you know we will expect one for all the major holidays, xoxo

      • Baby

        Oh that is a given Daisy..ha.. I can’t imagine how many eye rolls I get from those wanting only Scientology… but this was just to good to NOT share to my buddies..xo

        • mon elle

          We always need a reminder that there is a world of laughter, love and hope. Those precious qualities so often violently ripped away at the hands of the Dwarf and the musings of a musty mind.

          • Baby

            Oh how sweet Mon elle… You are absolutely right..As crazy as our lives get at times..

            I can’t imagine living in such a horrid Bubble.. absolutely!

  • Supper Powers

    Dodo, or someone who knows, what is Staff Status Two? Saw this on IG.

    • 0tessa

      Staff Status II (and I) is a course you do as a new staffmember in a Scientology Organization. It gives general information about the organization, how it works, how the command structure operates, how the management by stats system works, general rules for behaviour, and that sort of stuff.

      • Juicer77

        I really want to take the personal grooming course. This beard is getting outta hand.

      • Supper Powers

        Thank you. It’s difficult to keep up with all the “courses”. Hubbard really spent a shit load of time trying to restructure reality.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Otessa helps with that. 🙂

      There were three levels of staff status, 0, I and II, that each new staff member is supposed to do to “hat” them or train them in the basic structure of the organization, how it works and what their duties are.

      My urge to comment is to expand that a bit, in that Sea Org Members not only do those levels but a number of others such as the “Sea Org Member Hat”, Welcome to the Sea Org Tapes, “Keys to Competence” and others, including a number of other courses lumped into “Product Zero”, “Product 1” and “Product 2.”

      What is interesting, and may even have legal implications ultimately, is that these courses cost money. When you do them you sign a “staff debit” that basically says you are going to be charged for these courses if you do not stay in your 2-1/2 year, 5 year or billion year contract. These charges are a good portion of the so-called “freeloader debt” that many ex-Scientology staff struggle to pay off after they leave, because still having that ‘debt’ prevents you from doing Scientology as a “Public.”

      The issue is that if you are being trained to do your job, for which you are not actually being “paid” (because you are now supposedly just a volunteer) (for a supposedly ‘religious’ organization) then how can these classes, required of you as part of your service, be charged for? Unless it really is a business? Especially when the classes (called “courses” in Scientology) are likewise delivered to you by your own effort mostly, with only supervision by yet other ‘volunteers’?

      • Supper Powers

        Thanks for such a thorough explanation. And your analysis is good. When you point it out like that, it’s truly a wonder why the IRS is not raiding them today.

      • Excellent point! You are paying them a fixed fee to be an unpaid volunteer.

        How did this come about, and why do people accept it?

        Hubbard’s US Navy assessment noted that he ” seems to think that he has unusual ability in most lines”. His lifelong struggle was to get other people to accept this delusion (the Navy certainly didn’t).

        He finally succeeded when he established himself as the ‘source’ of Scientology. Once egot has persuaded people to accept that ‘the tech’ was infallible, they would also accept that, once you had completed a course, you were ‘trained’ to the highest standard.

        From that, the ultimate low-overhead business emerges naturally – along with a means for deterring defection (‘freeloader debt’).

        Hubbard didn’t plan this – it was a natural consequence of his narcissistic personality disorder, once he came to power over Scientologists..

  • Supper Powers

    Belated thankful note: yesterday I spent Thanksgiving by myself and it pretty much sucked. Today, I got to meet my cousin for the first time and I’m so grateful!

    • daisy

      How did you get together and why hadn’t you met her-him before. I am glad you had a better day today. It sucks to be alone on the holidays.

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Must buy 70s Boom Box and make mixed tape of LRH lectures! for the next time I see a stress test table!

    • anoni81b4u

      that would be an 80s boom box …. silly kids 🙂

      • B4you

        it was the 90s ffs!

      • MostEthicalPimp

        TRP-810 was released 1977.

  • Susan B.

    Day after day, night after night of sheer torture for dear Lisa McPherson. : ( A dose of an appropriate psych med would have given this angel the sleep and the start of the restoration of brain functions she so desperately needed. One or two nights of serious insomnia are horrific and torturous. Three? Four? Five? More? Insanely torturous. Are the bumbling helpers that stayed with her responsible? If any of them had thoughts of breaking her out of there but didn’t act on those thoughts are they responsible?

    • Juicer77

      Exactly what many of us are wondering at this point in the narrative.

  • anoni81b4u

    I Just found out some interesting historical data about the HISTORIC fishing hole named Trout Run.
    evidently there are some sky lights installed by BOB VILAS uncle Jim in the early 1980s. (seen as #1)
    Benjamin Franklin installed the electric lighting (SEEN AS #2)
    This truly is HISTORIC 🙂

    • B4you

      I think it was G.E that installed the electricity! but i could be wrong! I was wrong about $cientology too…

      • anoni81b4u

        No I am sorry. I think you are mistaken. Trout Run was definitely a place where Ben Franklin did valuable research.
        Mary and Joseph also stayed here on their way to Bethlehem.
        We are almost 99% sure that this was also the place where the Japanese surrendered at the end of WWII.
        The first Slinky in the world was let go on the front stairs of this place right after its invention.
        Silly putty was invented right behind that big building !

        • Juicer77

          XD

        • MostEthicalPimp

          Wasn’t this the place igor sikorsky built and tested the first helicopter?

          • anoni81b4u

            Why, yes it was.

  • Frodis73

    I ended up on an email list for Chick Corea and the other day an email showed up offering deep discounts on some music worship. Check out how low the price has dropped.
    Desperate cult is *very* desperate.

    Let’s go ahead take 80% off the One-on-One Music Workshop with Chick Corea.

    That’s 9+ hours of performances, exercises and detailed Q&A from Chick himself, to watch online.

    When it was first broadcast live, this workshop cost $199 (and it now sells for $149).

    You’re gonna get it for $29.79.

    • Juicer77

      Oh, Chick. They’ve bargain binned you.

      • Susan B.

        Hmmmmm. Looking over list from the workshop description do you think Chick adds Cult of $cion ideas to sucker in new cult members or are these strictly about music?

        Text below found here: http://chickcoreamusicworkshops.com/one-on-one/

        Chick Holds Nothing Back

        How Chick continues to create new ideas, and how you can too. (Saturday, video 3)

        Find out how Chick chooses his bandmates – and the tools you can use to assemble a band. (Saturday, video 10)

        How Chick stays relaxed and focused on stage. (Saturday, video 12)

        Can you create your own scales? Find out from Chick how. Hint: yes you can! (Saturday, video 16)

        Getting stuck on certain chords or rhythms? Chick suggests a way to break free. (Sunday, video 5)

        Chick lets you in on his own technique-strengthening exercises (yes, he needs to practice, too!) – which you can use to take your music to the next level. (Sunday, video 2)

        Learn to avoid pitfalls that stifle your creativity and musical freedom, with Chick’s own successful approach. (Sunday, video 5)

        What goes on in Chick’s head when he’s playing? You’ll probably be surprised by the answer to this one. (Rehearsal, video 3)

        Students of jazz have long wrestled with this one … Chick gives his practical advice on how to break free of the form. (Rehearsal, video 3)

        Need to hone your practice routine? Learn Chick’s personal practice techniques to get the most out of your time spent in the shed. (Rehearsal, video 7)

        And that’s just the tip of the iceberg …

        • Susan B.

          I watch a video clip of his workshop. Not bad! I’m going to get on the email list and see if I can get the $29.79 special. This is the 2015 workshop so it could actually be like a clearance sale. My piano sits there every day pouting at me. Gotta find some youtube videos to get playing again. Sorry piano!

        • Juicer77

          Of course he does. 🙁 It’s sad to see someone so faithful (in his way), with so much talent dedicate their life to a group that is ready to kick people aside at any time.

  • John McGhee

    Driving to work right now with radio on (I don’t do radio) I stay tuned because I recognise the voice over the speakers; it’s Tony Ortega chatting to Dave Fanning about our favorite subject. Excellent job! U2 have just come on now; radio OFF. Dave Fanning was dubbed an SP by my auditor to me eight years ago. 😀

    • Susan B.

      Listening to the recorded show from the website. Thanks!

  • Newiga

    Catching up on articles over at Rinder’s place. In addition to other WTF moments in Thursday Funnies, the idea of Scientology Carolers had me in stitches for some reason. I wonder what kind of songs they’re going to sing?

    – Ding Dong Regging on High?

    – Deck the Orgs?

    – The 12 Days on Freewinds?

    – Once in Puny David’s City?

    • Juicer77

      Oh, OT3
      Here We Come A-Vulturing
      The Shelly and the Davey

    • Serena Romeo

      Yep! And let’s not forget the classics-

      -Marty the Red Nosed Apostate
      -I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus and Wrote a Knowledge Report
      -Grandma Got Run Over by a Squirrel Buster
      -Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas (Unless you’re an SP then kill yourself)

      • Newiga

        LMAO!! These are brilliant!! Soon we can have the Bunker J&D carolers.

  • Fink Jonas

    Putin showing the fist to LRH, hilarious! he would do it too.

  • Fink Jonas

    Scientology hasn’t noticed that the country started to DISTRUST them in general. they keep on acting as if they were indispensable, loved and needed, what a bunch of idiots.

    • Susan B.

      That’s the great thing about sociopaths, narcissists and genocidal leaders. They’re never wrong, they never were wrong and they never will be wrong. They have no conscience, no mirror to hold up to look at themselves and know if anything is wrong. That’s all a good thing because this distrust you mention will gain momentum and reach critical mass.

      Can you imagine never being wrong and having those below you at your beck and call 24/7? I think I’d enjoy that for oh, about 23 minutes. Then I’d not want to live that way any more because I’d fell less than human about myself and too at risk to hurt others.

  • flyonthewall

    ʇsǝʇ

  • Excellent and helpful post… I am so glad to left comment on

    this. This has been a so interesting read, would love to read more here….

  • orangeoctober

    Proud to be a Marylander at a time like this