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From our man in Europe: Details on the Dutch denial of tax exemption to Scientology

Jonny Jacobsen

Jonny Jacobsen

Our man in Paris, Jonny Jacobsen, fills us in on some details about this week’s decision by a Dutch appeals court that Scientology should not get tax exemption in that country because of the prices it charges…

 
A Dutch tax court on Wednesday denied Scientology the tax-exempt status of a public benefit organisation, ruling that it was clearly a commercial enterprise.

This decision comes after last December’s Supreme Court ruling overturning an appeal court decision that had gone in Scientology’s favour, as we reported here at the time.

A Scientology spokesman denounced the ruling as religious discrimination, the Dutch newspaper Trouw reported Wednesday. It was not yet clear if the movement would appeal, added reporter Robin de Wever. But the ruling means that Scientologists there will not be able to claim tax breaks for payments to the organisation.

After the tax laws were tightened, the Scientology church (‘kerk’ in Dutch) in Amsterdam, SKA, fought a series of court cases to retain the tax breaks accorded a public benefit organisation, or charity. When this particular court battle started, in 2007, 50 percent of an organisation’s activities needed to have a public benefit.

The Supreme Court ruled last December that even if the Church of Scientology in Amsterdam, was a genuine church, it did not necessarily meet this criterion, and sent the case back to the lower courts for further consideration.

Wednesday’s latest judgment noted that tax officials were not disputing what Scientology said about the religious nature of its auditing and training. What they were arguing was that Scientology served private interests rather than being in the public interest.

It was for Scientology to take up the challenge issued by tax officials, said the court; it had to show that the services it sold for individuals’ spiritual development served the public interest. The court took the view that Scientology had not met that challenge.

Scientology had argued that its work fighting drug addiction and illiteracy across the world, its campaigns for prison reform and the rights of patients, spoke to the public interest aspect of its work.

But the judgment listed some of the prices charged in 2011 for members’ courses: from 90 euros for a Dianetics seminar to 2,950 for one intensive auditing.

For the court, the fact that Scientology offered its auditing and training at “substantial and fixed rates” was crucial. Tax officials had calculated that the average hourly rate for auditing and training came to 520 euros; 235 euros for the intensives.

That was “significantly higher” than hourly rates applied by commercial education institutes which – if they had set such rates – would be offering the equivalent of the best education by the best teachers in the best locations, said the court.

Given these commercial rates, it could not just be assumed that the public interest was being served as much as private interests, even if it was for a religious purpose, said the court. The auditing and training offered by Scientology in Amsterdam made up more than 50 percent of its activities, which meant its activities were mainly commercial.

Scientology had been unable to demonstrate “that the public interest is at least equally served as private interest”, the court concluded.

Corresponding with Robin de Wever to check details of the story, he gave me some useful background on this affair. “Dutch tax law switched in 2008 from a system in which any organization could sign itself up for these tax breaks (and the Dutch IRS would randomly check a number of organizations) to a system where every organization had to file a request to get such a status.”

He also pointed me to an interesting part of the judgment that I’d missed. In paragraph 8.12 of the ruling, he explained, “the judge notes that course and auditing prices are ’not only meant to cover costs.’ The SKA ‘knowingly strives for surpluses, that are to be used for its own conservation and has reached exploitation surpluses, which has lead to a significant wealth.’

“Plain English: the SKA charges so much that it clearly makes a profit and it has used that profit to amass a ’significant wealth’,” de Wever explained.

If you have time, use Google Translate to take a look at his in-depth investigation of Scientology over at Trouw. This one is an interview with a former member declared suppressive, who believes in the efficacy of some Scientology techniques; and this one looks at Scientology’s relentless pursuit of money.

De Wever is a religious affairs specialist and you can find some of his others articles at his own website.

— Jonny Jacobsen

 
——————–

Sydney comes through

GiantDwarf1

 
Wow, what a first couple of days we had in Sydney. After we arrived following the 14-hour flight from Los Angeles, Bryan Seymour picked us up at the airport and took us directly to the Channel 7 studios, where we were put right onto The Morning Show for a lengthy segment that really got a lot of attention. Soon we were hearing that the mid-day show The Daily Edition wanted us, Bryan did his own piece, and we were also called in by the Sunrise program the next morning. Meanwhile, Steve Cannane was arranging for us to appear on numerous radio shows and TV over at the ABC network. We were basically running from one show to another all the way up to Friday night’s event at the Giant Dwarf Theatre in Redfern.

It was especially a treat for us that Ramana Dienes-Browning came early so we could finally meet her for the first time, backstage. And so many others made the scene, including many Bunkerites. The theater had 180 seats out and only a few weren’t filled. And what a great show put on by Steve Cannane and Bryan Seymour. We’re glad we were along for the ride!

Cannane will be with us in Melbourne for Sunday afternoon’s event at the Wheeler Center. (It’s “sold out,” but it’s also free, so come on by anyway even if you don’t have a ticket to see if there’s space). And then Bryan Seymour will be with us in Adelaide, where we’ll join Nick Xenophon, and Bryan is also coming with us to Perth!

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
Oct 25: Melbourne, The Wheeler Centre, 3 pm, free but reservations recommended (with Steve Cannane)

Oct 28: Adelaide, Wheatsheaf Hotel, (with Sen. Nick Xenophon and Bryan Seymour)

Oct 30: Perth, Collins Street Centre, Collins St and Shaftesbury St, South Perth, 7 pm (with Bryan Seymour)

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29), Sydney (10/23), Melbourne (10/25)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on October 24, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Miss Tia

    HEY!!! Why is the heart only at 133?? We have 760 comments! Come on!! Click the heart!!! You and your socks, come on!!!

    • jazzlover

      134 now 😉 OOPS

      • Miss Tia

        hey, 142 now!! i’m finishing off the double batch of ‘GTFO illness’ soup i made yesterday….it’s helped!!

        • jazzlover

          LOL. I’m glad it’s worked 🙂

        • beauty for ashes

          I’m totally craving cherry juice. Where’s is 1subgenius? anyone seen him?

          • Sherbet

            🙁 All gone, beauty.

          • Miss Tia

            i’ll send him a message you miss him, but he’s gone from commenting….he was at the cleveland event….he was in some of vacquera’s pix…..

            • Juicer77

              Please send my best wishes, as well.

            • beauty for ashes

              Tell him I’m trying to become a low sugar cherry juice connoisseur. Yeah tell him I said hi! But also, if he made a choice for what’s best for him, that’s totally cool and we support that.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Dave was a mean dirty dog,
    Skewered on Tony’s blog
    He beat and he blamed
    But then he was shamed
    For being as dumb as a log

    Dave was as thick as a ditch
    The worst sort of ignorant rich,
    His head was a cabbage
    His ways, they were savage
    He finished a jailhouse bitch

    $cientology : it always hustles
    $cientology : it always rustles
    Until the evil scam is seen,
    Discovered to be quite obscene
    $cientology is screwed in Brussels

    $cientology at Camelot “Castle”: Putting the “con” in “iconic”

    Melbourne tonight, heh heh
    Here’s all those time zones, folks:

    Sunday 25th Oct. 3pm: Melbourne
    7 am Helsinki/ 6am Padova – Paris – Brussels -Oslo / 5am London- Dublin/
    midnight 24th EST/ 11pm Sat. 24th Chicago- Madison/ 10pm 24th Denver/
    9 pm 24th San Fran – LA/

    Pin the Fin @ HowdyCon – vote Nov. 9th

    • salin

      Best PSAs ever!

    • beauty for ashes

      Il n’est pas une petite chou. in French ma petit chou is a term of endearment. My little cabbage (aww)
      But not a criticism, laying down rhymes like you are today. **Scientology is screwed in Brussels** being my favorite line. definitely *drop the mic* worthy!

    • Missionary Kid

      $cientology screwed itself in Brussels by its very nature.

      • Enturbulated Masterbator

        And did they even enjoy it with a post coital drag on the cigarette?

        • Missionary Kid

          Probably not. Self-gratification is looked down on in $cienology.

  • outraged

    umm….is that a different picture at the top of Jonny, our man? Looks a bit different than this morning, or maybe I just ate too much at the chinese buffet.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      I just noticed the same thing. It’s about 9 am down under, so maybe Tony is up and preparing a new post already.

    • Missionary Kid

      It’s not Jonny. It’s Robin de Wever. It’s in the 3rd paragraph.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Somebody has changed the picture, and parts of the text.

        • I didn’t do it.

          • Miss Tia

            Of course not, you’re too busy ghost writing, as we all are.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        It IS jonny now.

        • outraged

          It IS Jonny because it SAYS Jonny under the photo and we know the press is never wrong.

  • nottrue

    Tom does his own stunts but runs like a chickenshit from Leah. TC you are being called out. SAY something. This disgruntled apostate seeking attention crap don’t cut it

    • Miss Tia

      he CONFRONTING AND SHATTERING!!! which as we know is running and hiding!!

    • Nat-leficent

      He can’t do “brain” stunts . . . gah!

    • TC is waiting for Leah’s audibook.

      • Sid (Phil)

        He’s afraid it will self destruct after he listens to it.

      • Ella Raitch

        Too cruel? Naaaah…!

    • outraged

      Tom Cruise is a cowardly chickenshit loser.
      He has abandoned his kid for a kult.
      A friend DIED while filming Mena and Cruise said NOThiNG in public about the stuntman Alan D. Purwin.

      He lives in his own world, travels in his own cloud, talks to his own appearance in the mirror even if he is in front of you.

      Tom Cruise has become a caricature of Tom Cruise which is a only a caricature of Tom Cruise.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        “Tom Cruise has become a caricature of Tom Cruise which is a only a caricature of Tom Cruise.”

        That’s a great way to put it, and at the heart of what scientology does to you–strips out what makes you you and replaces it with some false persona. I imagine when you’re someone in the public eye, like Tom Cruise, your sense of self is already distorted. Add scientology in there and it’s like a hall of mirrors. I wonder if he even truly knows who he is anymore. JT sure doesn’t. If either of them really faced it one day, I imagine it would be terrifying. It would be to me.

        • outraged

          Which is why, I believe, he will NEVEr leave Scientology. It has become part and parcel of himself. Cruise can only see Cruise thru the eyes of Miscavige. And now that he bailed to Florida, he will be even more isolated than before.

          My guess is Tom had a type of personality that was ripe for the picking. He tried to leave at one point but was sucked back never to emerge again. It might seem sad, and did at one point, but no longer. Tom has chosen the bed of the devil and won’t even open his eyes to see the truth.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Totally agree. He’s going down with the ship. And you’re right: at one point down the road, I might’ve been sympathetic to him, but we passed that exit a long time ago.

    • JaxNGold

      I’ve never seen members of any other religion refuse to talk about their faith. It’s so telling. Tom Cruise knows damn well that having to answer questions would make him look really, really bad. He knows that he’d be asked about things he simply can’t answer. Just once, it would be so satisfying to see him put on the spot with tough questions. Please, for the love of Xenu, let it come to pass!

      • Eleventy

        Well Bryan has said he’d love to have an open and honest conversation with Tom. Tom seems to be afraid of that.

        • JaxNGold

          The “open and honest” part certainly wouldn’t be coming from Tom’s side.

      • Missionary Kid

        After his disastrous interview with Matt Laur, TC is gonna keep his mouth shut. He did more damage than he could ever imagine with his arrogance and attack on psychiatry and Brooke Shields for taking meds for post-partum depression than he could ever imagine, living inside the $cientology bubble.

        In the view of people who don’t follow $cientology, he became a certified nut job, and women really came down on him.

        It didn’t have the impact of Anonymous on $cientology, but it sure woke up a lot of other people.

        Besides, LRH said to attack, never defend, so that would only add to his and $cientology’s nut-job reputation.

        He’s been called out over Going Clear, and he’s purposely made it a requirement of any interview that it doesn’t mention his religion con game.

        • Frodis73

          You know what sucks about the press and TC situation? He’s holding them hostage over this when they are the ones with the real power here. If TC says “no questions about xyz” all they’d have to say is, “oh, ok thanks. We don’t have anything else to ask him, so see ya next time you’re pushing a flick TC”. If the entire press corp/heads of mags, etc would grow some balls, he’d have to come around or leave the business. Since there is money involved, we all know it will never happen. Which is why it is up to us, the public, to tell him to go screw by not buying tix to his movies.

          • Missionary Kid

            As much as I dislike TC’s support of the crime syndicate known as $cientology, he is not a bad actor, and he still has a lot of star power around the world.

            He’s probably got people telling him to STFU about $cientology after listening to his sister as his publicist, who told him to disseminate the Co$ bullshit, and all the blowback that came from it.

    • Observer

      He won’t say a word.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    SKA ?
    The Ska Father and the man who coined the word “reggae”,
    Frederick “Toots” Hibbert, has a song for you, Dave-

    “Pressure drop, pressure drop , pressure gonna drop on you
    It is you, you, you,
    Pressure gonna drop on you”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueulF29EwX8
    or
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGwHgg7hjMw
    or the 1972 original:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izFPAV5kRRo
    TICK TOCK, LilFiveOne

  • OOkpik

    COS…Brace yourselves.

  • nottrue

    • Observer

      Yeah, they can. They’ll turn you into Lafayette Hubbard.

    • jazzlover

      The one on the lower right sorta looks like the Flat Iron building in NYC. This would be apt for the “flat heads” 🙂

      • Missionary Kid

        It’s not as tall as the Flatiron, but it’s the same shape, but in San Francisco. Demonstrators there get smiles from the police.

        • jazzlover

          Hey now! NYPD have been known to smile on occasion 🙂 That’s MY city you’re stereotyping 😉

          • Missionary Kid

            I was trying to convey that not only are the SF police friendly to the protesters, but they are not too friendly to the whining $cientology people, who bitch an moan about everything. They keep everything within the law, but wink and smile to let the protesters know which side they’re on.

            That’s not meant as any sort of slight to New Yawk, because I’m sure they’ve experienced the typical $cientology whine. 🙂

            • jazzlover

              I figured that’s what you were saying, but as a native I’m all too used to the not so veiled swipes against NYC from much of the rest of the country.

            • Missionary Kid

              A lot of those swipes come because NYC and a lot of large cities that assume that they’re the center of the universe. There are people who assume that civilization ends with the Hudson river, just as people in San Francisco can be quite parochial about anyone living across the bay, or people in L.A. who think that the climate everywhere else sucks.

              I remember being at the original Tommy’s burger stand in L.A., and, after getting my chili burger, with it’s greasy chili that I love, hearing someone exclaim to their friend, “Chili. That’s not chili.” I was wondering what part of Texas or the Southwest they were from, to make such a judgement, when they added, “If you want some REAL chili, come to New York.” I sniggered.

              There are as many different ways to make chili as there are cooks and restaurants. This clown was convinced that what he was familiar with was the only way chili is made.

              That’s real urban provincialism, and we all engage in it. Probably you hear a lot of attitude about it from people elsewhare because even though there’s probably no higher percentage of New Yorkers to enturbulate the rest of us there’s more of them, even though most people from NY are not that way.

            • jazzlover

              I’ve been around the block a few thousand times too 🙂 Educated people don’t make any claims or assumptions about anything. Stupidity and ignorance cut a really wide swath across this country, and not just in urban areas. Reverse-urban provincialism is just as bad.

            • Missionary Kid

              I definitely agree. ^^^^^

            • jazzlover

              Good, cuz I was gonna have to go all ‘New Yawk’ on ya 🙂 (just kidding)

            • Missionary Kid

              *Chuckle*

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)
  • Rasha

    O/T, but seasonal: So, while at the Halloween store to get awesome makeups today, I noticed a young, rebel-looking fella in the checkout line with nothing but a Guy Fawkes mask in hand. “Excuse me, where did you find that? Sorry to bother…”. I expected him to say, “Oh, over… that away – just ask someone.”

    “Here! I’ll show you!” and he hands off his to a fellow line-stander, and straightaway accompanies me all the way across the crowded store, right to where they were. As I gave him a thanks-a-lot!, he gave a little smile I’d only describe as “knowing.”

    It was brilliant.

    Got the hat, too, but they didn’t have the wig.

    Okay – back to your regularly schedule Bunkering…. Sorry to bother.

    • Jimmy3

      Unbeknownst to you… The mask was poisoned….. With pure entheta

      • Rasha

        whnd wwt wwonn’t cmmm orrfff!!!!

      • Pure entheta is what SPs have for breakfast.

        • Jimmy3

          I dunno.. Ive read the nutritional label on some of the shit I eat for breakfast. There is a lot of stuff in there besides pure entheta. What the fuck is “whole grain”? Am I getting the WHOLE grain?

          • Whole grain is hard to find. It’s usually 2 and a half % of the grain.

            • Miss Tia

              if that’s all you’re getting you need to change dealers!

    • Miss Tia

      that’s great!!! (and OT doesn’t matter if it’s seasonal or not 😉

  • Jo

    So it’s all about money, the bigot thing never made any sense.

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)
      • Rasha

        Is this what Warren Buffet refers to as “Strategic Money Positioning”?

        …I’ll go sit in the corner.

        • Missionary Kid

          No need. We understand what you meant.

          • Rasha

            Whew! Because sensible financial management is very important! Didn’t want to give the wrong impression….

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        One of my favorite musicals…

        • beauty for ashes

          Me too! Really funny.

    • Rasha

      Yeah, they deflect from the truth by using “Elementary School Playground Name-Calling Tech®”. To think we’ve missed out on this for trillions® of years…

      • Jo

        Sad but true.

        • Rasha

          Yeah. The whole LAX video is a perfect example. “You’re a poopyhead, and no one likes you! HAHAHA!!!” is STRAIGHT out of 4th Grade, which is what makes it so irritating (and effective against people who attempt to counter it with adult thinking. In that case, the perfect reaction was – none. Just document, and let them speak for themselves.

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    A scene from Ron Miscavige’s upcoming book:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdG1w-caaWk

    • Jo

      First glance, I thought it was a lifetime movie.

  • Eleventy

    I have a spare ticket for Melbourne. A friend cancelled. If you can be at the Wheeler Centre at 2.30 message me.

    • Miss Tia

      Vaquera is checking flights…..

      • Vaquera

        Dang. My heart did a little jump. Alas, I am babysitting the nieces this weekend.

  • aegerprimo

    I found this an interesting article. I was a member of the Church of Scientology choir. I was only able to join after a paid off my freeloader debt after leaving the Sea Org. (For those who do not know what the freeloader debt is click here – http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/11/how-scientology-coerced-a-child-to-have-an-abortion-the-decrescenzo-files/ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxefpy8Ukp8…)

    When I was in the choir, there was REAL talent who were Scientologists. The choir was led by Marcia Powell. Is she in Clearwater now? I think I read a comment somewhere that she relocated from Los Angeles to Clearwater FL. The choir was fun and we put on shows bi-annually at the Pavilion at the Celebrity Center in Hollywood.

    Here is a pic of me from a show we put on… it was a song from the opera Carmen, chorus of the Cigarette Girls. This pic was taken in 1993. I’m the blonde girl most towards the right of pic holding the silver stein. (F5)

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Thanks for sharing the pic. Karmic timing, because I was just reading an article today about a woman who recounts once being hired by the CoS to pose like she was in the choir, with bonus Tom Cruise cameo. Had no idea the CoS had a legit choir.

      http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-time-i-sang-in-a-scientology-holiday-choir

      • aegerprimo

        That article is the EXACT reason I made this post! I posted link above in my comment.
        Crazy huh? The Co$ is hiring so many “posers” now. When I was in, I was really trying to help save the world.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Oh, sorry–wasn’t even paying attention! I was distracted by Tory’s sweet face. ; )

          Yeah, they don’t even have enough people to fill out their own choir. So much for the fastest growing “religion.”

          • aegerprimo

            When I was in the Co$ choir, we were one of the biggest choirs around!

            We performed with Neil Diamond! http://variety.com/1992/tv/reviews/neil-diamond-s-christmas-special-1200430895/

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Oh, neat–what a memory!

            • aegerprimo

              I have a photo of us autographed by Neil Diamond. Good times. We got the gig because of David Campbell, a Scientologist musician arranger. (He is Beck’s father.)

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Oh yeah, David Campbell, OG kool-aid drinker…Cool experience, though. Now if anyone needs me, I’ll be in the corner singing Sweet Caroline to myself the rest of the evening…

            • aegerprimo

              Please email me aegerprimo@hushmail.com

          • Always Amazed

            Tory is in the photo? Christman?

            • Frodis73

              Refresh the page.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              No, Aeger also posted a link to one of Tory’s vids. On my PC, an image of the screen shows up.

            • Always Amazed

              Gottcha.. Makes sense why I couldn’t figure out which one she was. Haha

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Poor you, Dave – and just before Leah drops the bomb
    Life will win, your death cult will lose.

    Melbourne tonight for North Americans, heh heh
    Here’s all those time zones, folks:
    Sunday 25th Oct. 3pm: Melbourne
    7 am Helsinki/ 6am Padova – Paris – Brussels -Oslo – Cape Town / 5am London- Dublin/
    midnight 24th EST/ 11pm Sat. 24th Chicago- Madison/ 10pm 24th Denver/
    9 pm 24th San Fran – LA/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olkS6KdF0Mw

    • Vaquera

      Thank you, Pan.

    • Ella Raitch

      Squee – only a couple of hours away

    • JaxNGold

      Jimmy Cliff. Legendary. One of my favorite artists of all time. That song is incredible.

      I absolutely adore “Many Rivers To Cross”. It makes me teary every time I hear it. My husband sang an accoustic version at his friend’s father’s funeral. Jimmy was his Dad’s favorite singer. Cheers!

  • Jo

    Has the clock gone back yet? Or is going back at 2am? I hate this time travel shit.

    • Rasha

      Not for a week, yet. You can travel to then, but if you do, let me know if I got my costume right…

      • Miss Tia

        we don’t go back for another 2 weeks! which sucks cuz we use to go back the last saturday in october but they changed it in 2007 or something for some bizarre reason and it sucks cuz i have to have lights on in the morning AND at night earlier! HATE IT!!

        i’m ready to just start pretending i went back an hour and get it over with!

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)
          • Frodis73

            I wish I could upvote this more than once. I *hate* daylight savings…it’s a bunch of BS that we should just stop doing.

            • madame duran

              I don’t understand the need nor the efficiency of observing Daylight Savings Time. It should become outdated like the penny. If it was truly a necessary thing, then countries and regions wouldn’t choose to “opt out” of it.

        • Rasha

          Ack. I am officially calling for Universal Bunker Time.

          • Miss Tia

            We just need to stay on ‘summer’ time and fuck this changing of the clocks!!! FUCK OFF WITH IT!!! I think i’ll send the department of transportation a letter stating that: Please FUCK OFF with this clock changing shit! It’s OVER! Stop it!!

            Actually I’ve read studies they’ve done where there’s more accidents, less worker productivity and it ends up costing billions. GET RID OF IT!!!!!

            • Rasha

              Or that. That works, too. I’m good with that idea. 😉

            • Miss Tia

              i thought it was the 2nd week of november….i see it’s november 1st….okay starting tomorrow i’m putting my clocks back…..

      • Jo

        Nope, it’s tonight. Extra hour in bed, working tomorrow.

        • Rasha

          ….Of course, I have failed utterly to take into account that not everyone in the world lives in my particular time zone and country. That is something I really must work on, and am ashamed.

          ETA, so yeah, it’s probably already happened. 😉

          • Jo

            That’s fine, I’m still not sure if it’s 1, 2 or 3am, lol.

          • Jo

            I should be ashamed I don’t know what time it is. Don’t want a hangover.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Sorry Howdy, but I’ve found my costume for Howdycon. It was only two aisles over from the Tim Tams at target.

    • Ruby

      Perfect.

    • Steve Shark Attack smiles.

    • Vaquera

      Candygram, ma’am.

    • beauty for ashes

      I would totally wear that as pajamas.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Well then, call me shark bait.

        • beauty for ashes

          Seriously, you should get that costume. I bet girls would feel the same way.

    • Miss Tia

      you got Tim Tams?!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Yes ma’am! Racing home to eat then now. Chocolate or caramel just like your target.

        • Miss Tia

          Which ones did you get? Original or caramel? I have only one whole bag left! 🙂

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Original. Bag says disturbed by Pepperidge farm.

            • Miss Tia

              yep so does mine, but they’re a product of australia….

    • Jo

      Tasty chicken drum missing from that pic, missing howdy too.

  • beauty for ashes

    click the heart for ice cream!!!!

    • Miss Tia

      i’m lactose intolerant.

      • beauty for ashes

        it’s sugar free anyway. it just looked so pretty.

        • Miss Tia

          well i might partake of ice cream anyway, but i wouldn’t eat any that’s sugar free–sorry those substitutes don’t agree with me….i do have a once a year peanut buster parfait from dairy queen, but that’s not really ice cream….oooo….rice dream chocolate chocolate ice cream sandwiches….nom nom nom nom…..

          • beauty for ashes

            Rice dream! no I love that stuff too. I’m just supposed to have a lot of sugar. Rice dream is really smooth.

            • Miss Tia

              rice dream IS really smooth!!! haven’t had it in a long time….

          • beauty for ashes

            Yes never buy sugar free chocolate that has malitol in it. It’s like malitov cocktail in you tummy. The only safe ice cream is the sugar free breyers vanilla for me, everything else makes me sick too.

            • Miss Tia

              any of those sugar free sweeteners don’t agree with me….i prefer regular sugar—though trying finding THAT alone in a product now a days!!!

            • kemist

              Ha, ha I have trouble finding products that have no sugar in them, and which are not low fat – low fat products tends to be very rich in carbs, even those which are supposedly sugarless.

              I cook almost everything I eat for this reason, even my ketchup and BBQ sauce.

            • Miss Tia

              homemade ketchup and BBQ sauce is sooooo good!!! well worth the time for the taste!! 🙂

            • kemist

              Erythritol and xylitol are better, and teeth-friendly. Xylitol even has a taste that’s undistinguishable from sugar if it is dissolved (the cooling effect is due to its negative heat of dissolution). Erythritol is less sweet, that’s why it’s often used in combination with stevia.

              Unfortunately, I know from experience why they don’t make xylitol chocolate : cocoa oil separates from chocolate the instant you mix in the xylitol, and it makes an oily, clumped up mess.

        • kemist

          Sugar free ? Nice. Where do they serve sugar free ice cream ?

          I’m hypoglycemic, on a low carb diet and if I eat over 20-30 g carbs a day I get bad oedema in legs and hands. If I want to have ice cream, I have to make my own.

          • beauty for ashes

            Breyers sugar free vanilla low carb is the best. Don’t try anything with chocolate in it, unless you are prepared to have rude intestines afterwards. However the sugar free syrup I added is sweetened with splenda instead of malitol. Also I have all sweeteners with _itol at the end to upset my stomach.
            Also, sucks about the oedema, and sugar free living is hard! Just this morning someone presented me with mini eclairs. Totally fell off the wagon!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Oh, I could drive by sonic and dip the Tim Tams into an ice cream shake.

      • beauty for ashes

        That sounds inspired.

      • Nat-leficent

        Oh noes

  • Miss Tia

    no!!! someone suggested cosplay and can you imagine what howdy would say?!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      That was Sebastian….

      • Miss Tia

        i know, i was trying to avoid causing him embarrassment 🙂

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Shit, this is the Bunker. It’s how we roll.

          • Miss Tia

            i sometimes TRY to be nice! i’ll remember that! 😀

  • TonyOrtega

    Melbourne is windy today.

    • Miss Tia

      so are you in melbourne or in the wind?

    • Rasha

      Have the clocks gone back? We’re having issues downthread…..

      • Eleventy

        The clocks went forward first weekend of October.

        • Rasha

          ….

          • Eleventy

            Lol. We are going into summer. So our clocks are put forward an hour for “summer time”, but stupidly it changes a month into Spring.

            • Rasha

              …I wish it was Melbourne in Boston….

            • Robert Eckert

              But your clocks run counter-clockwise so it all evens out, right?

      • Observer

        Ours go back next weekend. Jo is in the UK, and I don’t know when they do it.

        • Miss Tia

          i see that! last year it was like the first weekend in november, so this is a pleasant surprise cuz we also did it the last weekend of october….cuz i remember being downtown kent when it was on oct. 31—like 15+ years ago and the bar clocks would go back an hour…..

    • So is Cincinnati.

    • Eleventy

      If you have time, pop up the Spring Street and get an ice-cream from the Spring St Grocer. It’s open very late and happens to be where the first Church of Scientology in Australia was located.

      And the ice-cream is awesome.

      PS. Melbourne is always windy in October.

    • What else is happening?

      • beauty for ashes

        That’s all he can say~ everything else is sooper secret.

    • Jimmy3

      A jacket is necessary when Down Under.

    • Ella Raitch

      My favourite Australian city!

      • Andrew Robertson

        My favourite Australian city too. Great restaurants and a cultured place with many older colonial buildings nicely restored.

        Andrew

        • Ella Raitch

          Plus great public transport, street art and live music

    • what’sup

      There’s a very well known saying in Australia, “If you don’t like the weather in Melbourne, just wait 5 minutes”

      • Jimmy3

        That’s a derivation of an old Roman phrase.. “If you don’t like the weather in Pompeii, just HOLY SHIT WHAT IS—“

        • what’sup

          I think I’ve seen a photo of that weather on the cover of a book somewhere, can’t for the life of me remember where but.

      • salin

        In the SF Bay area it is more like – don’t like the weather? Drive 10 miles (oh how I miss those micro-climates.)

        • beauty for ashes

          IKR? I’d get dressed for work and be chilly, drive down the mountain and be totally sweating by the time I got there. However, sometimes you could be driving and then you’d say to yourself, holy crap doesn’t this totally look like Ireland? It’s been too long for me since I’ve been back there too!

          • salin

            I learned the art of ‘layering’ clothes (shirt, light sweater, blazer) if had to travel in the region – add or extract as needed. More recently worked in a large old building which had ‘microclimates’ within it. That art of layering – paid off. Other folks were either sweating it out or freezing all day.

  • outraged

    With the shit about to hit the fan, Cruise must be back hiding under rocks but this time in Flor Rida.
    Great ad seen on casual roundabout on the internet:

    • Ella Raitch

      She really is going for the jugular. Good woman!

      • jazzlover

        Somebody needs to. This idiot needs to be made accountable. As a fellow New Yawka, I say “you go girl” 🙂

      • Mymy88

        F**k yeah! I love it.

    • salin

      TC: Leah, You Don’t Rank enough to talking trash about me.
      TC Thinking: WTF?l How is she still working, She Is A Criminal.

      TV Producers, Book Publishers and all their entities: Leah is bringing in the dough! Can we book her for more PR and more Shows?

      TC looking at media contact list and DM and DM cronies: Damnit Answer My Calls!

      • noseinabk

        You are giving TC way too much credit. The guy is in a celeb bubble and a Scientology bubble. He has people to protect him from doing any thinking on his own.

        • salin

          How right you are. Went for humor – forgot to take the very strange bubble that he lives in, and of which he takes advantage.

  • Mymy88

    HUA! “Being critical of Tom Cruise is being critical of of Scientology itself … you are evil” (Leah Remini). Watch 20/20, October 30. Yes, this is a BIG DEAL. Can’t wait, can’t wait.

    • Missionary Kid

      There have been critics of $cientology that have been spreading the word about its evil, starting with, among others, Miss Lovely and Russel Miller, but there have been events that have been turning points in the struggle against the evil of the Co$. The Time magazine volcano edition, the demonstrations by Anonymous, the book, and especially the movie have had the highest visibility among the public.

      No, I’m not trying to slight The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, or any of the other fine books about the cult. I’m talking about the events that register with the public.

      The Cruise arrogance with Matt Lauer, and the TomKat divorce were not as major,but they have had an effect. So far, Leah’s appearances after her leaving have added a lot to the drum beat that has made $cientology at least thought of as nutty, but I believe that Leah’s book and appearance on 20/20 will register strongly with the public because she is fairly well known from a hit sitcom and has a likable persona. It may well be another huge signpost.

      In spite of the usual spate of Miscavige’s mouthpiece, Karin Kapow’s passive-aggressive statements, name calling, and character assassination, Leah’s appearing on 20/20 to hype her book is going to be another HUGE torpedo to sink Cruise and $cientology further. While the movie, Going Clear has been a call-out of Tommy boy, this time, the call-out is gonna be personal from Leah.

      The public eats that up.

  • Observer

    ..

    • B4you

      Gosh I want a cat like that.

    • This Cat is Metal as Fuck.

    • Qbird

      Hiya Obs ~ just wanted to send you my favorite photo of the past ‘blood moon’… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f812636b993a72a1f95990c2b90fd507660499dd46b0db72326bca83ed05c820.jpg

      • Observer

        That is so cool!

        • Qbird

          Oh good… after I posted it, I thought, I wondered, I worried a bit,
          “Oh no, maybe Obs doesn’t like spiders!” — some of my friends are freaky scared of them. So yay! I thought it was super cool too (a neighbor took the shot)… the small & the grand, all in one shot.
          Also, I’ve taken a few of your leaf shots & they play upon my desktop screen savers… such light happy colors, I love them. Tks Observer.

  • Eleventy

    Tony is in the building.

    • Ella Raitch

      Good man – was wondering if someone was in place ready to start the blogging.

      I have disposed of all spousal and childish distractions (cricket) and am home only with fur babies only. Ready to participate.

    • Robert Eckert

      The building, he is in it

    • Jimmy3

      Check his ID. In Parma Heights, there was a fake Tony that we had to forcibly escort out of the building.
      Card him.

      • Ella Raitch

        Those darned Winchester boys

  • what’sup

    Photo of South African Captain after last night’s SF in the World Cup of Rugby,or as I like to call it, 3 men pushing 4 men up 5 men’s arses.

    • what’sup

      • Juicer77

        Holy rugby balls – is that man’s face BROKEN?

        • what’sup

          Nah just a subdural haematoma. I think that’s how it’s spelled.Otherwise known as a mouse.

  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    FWIW, Jenny B. is still posting about Cat White…

    • madame duran

      What’s she saying about her? Links?

      Edit:
      Nevermind. I refreshed the page.

    • Where was Jenny when Cat was alive.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Where was she when Cat was alive and needed someone to help her stay that way?

      • noseinabk

        The cold hearted bitch in me thinks Cat wasn’t bringing her any attention until now. If my best friend died hell if I would be posting pics that only included the two of us together. Cat had an entire lifetime that did not include that desperate attention whore.

    • madame duran

      Is Cat’s Instagram account still active (i.e. open)? What happens to an account once a user becomes deceased? Does Jenny Burpee or Cat’s family members assume control or gain access (upon providing ID and formal notice of the user’s death)? I just noticed that “@littleirishcat” wasn’t highlighted in blue (which indicates a hyperlink that can be clicked on). So I’m assuming the account was closed.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Not sure about the details of handling a deceased’s account. Cat’s insta page is still up, but I don’t think her FB page is (which may be why the @ wasn’t live.

        https://instagram.com/littleirishcat/

        • madame duran

          Hmmm. She went on a trip to Canada. Had to get her Irish passport renewed and got it done just in time before heading off there. Just looking through her photos.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Right, I remember seeing that photo of her holding up a letter and musing about how fast she got it done, or something. I went down the Instagram rabbit hole when her story first broke, but haven’t looked back at it in a while.

    • Juicer77

      Why doesn’t she just dig up the poor girl and get some more poses with her? I am beyond sickened by this. This is NOT I’m missing my friend. This is Attention Whore Master Class.

  • Iain

    I have accepted a challenge to try liveblogging the Melbourne event… Never done something like this, but I’ll give it a try – keep reading here for updates 🙂

    • Ella Raitch

      Champion!

      • Iain

        Scaramouche says hi!

        • Ella Raitch

          Hi Scaramouche! Will you do the fandango?

          • Iain

            ‘I shall, I shall!’

            • Ella Raitch

              ROFL

          • Please don’t start. The whole “thunderbolts and lightning thing” is next. Oh. Wait. Nevermind. At least it cleared the song that’s been going through my head all day. Though a lovely song it is.

            • noseinabk

              Ha! You know we are itching to post the next line.
              *whispers loudly* very, very frightening

            • jazzlover

              My classmates didn’t think it was so lovely as I played it over and over again on a school bus trip up to Bear Mountain (NY) back in 9th grade 🙂

            • noseinabk

              One of my failures as a parent is that one of my 3 kids does not think this is a cool song. The good part is that I can embarrass her by playing it in the car when I pick her up . Love Shack does quite nicely too. 😉

            • jazzlover

              LOL. I have the same problem with my kids. Little secret: I’m partial to “Roam” 🙂

            • Frodis73

              I could listen to Kate and Cindy harmonize for the rest of my life probably.

            • jazzlover

              They are great. One of my cousins was a commercial photographer in NYC back in the 70s and 80s and got to know the B-52s quite well. He ended up attending one of their weddings in Athens, GA. Said they were all nice folks.

            • Frodis73

              I have heard that a lot about them. I had (well, still do) the biggest crush on Fred Schnieder. Lol. He just seems like lots of fun.

            • jazzlover

              I wonder what he’s up to these days. It’s been a while since any of them put out new music. I know I was shocked a few years ago when I found out that Kate Pierson was in her mid-60s. Couldn’t believe it.

        • noseinabk

          You will do fine. We will take any tidbits we can get.

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      Thank you so much,anything you post will be perfect ! Appreciate it so much.

    • Iain

      The place is filling up!

      • Ella Raitch

        What’s the venue like – permanent theatre type seating and a stage? Multipupose room?

        • Iain

          Multipurpose room with 240 chairs setup, most of them filled!

          • Ella Raitch

            Huge!

        • Eleventy

          Multipurpose I’d say. It has a permanent looking lighting rig though.

    • Jimmy3

      You’ll do fine. Just check for dingos and any other stereotypical American representations of Australian culture before you begin.

      • Ella Raitch

        This is Victoria – bunyip country

        • Jimmy3

          I don’t know what that is. Hey, guy, check for bunyips.

      • Or Yowies. Or Drop Bears.

      • jazzlover

        Paul Hogan does NOT upvote this.

    • Iain

      Tony Ortega and Steve Cannae are coming out to the stage…

      • Ella Raitch

        *applause*

        • Iain

          I don’t think there was any! Edit: Not in the room, at least. 🙂

      • Ella Raitch

        Wonder if Tony is recording these appearances as a collection of Congresses to be sold at *reasonable* prices in tastefully boxed sets?

        • DVDs with lots of swooshy graphics!

          • Ella Raitch

            And painfully upbeat musical stylings

    • Iain

      Steve Cannae: Melbourne is the birthplace of sci in Australia. LRH gave a series of lectures here in The Bamboo Room at The Chevron
      The first ever public inquiry into Scientology was held here in Victoria…
      Vic was the first place in the world to ban Sci. (It eventually got overturned)
      Hubbard had great plans for Sci in Australia. He thought we would be ‘the world’s first clear continent’
      But when Aus turned on LRH, he turned on Aus: ‘Vic consists of riffraff of London slums, robbers, prostitutes, the scourings of Newgate and Bedlam’

      • Ella Raitch

        Vic consists of riffraff of London slums, robbers, prostitutes, the scourings of Newgate and Bedlam

        …so of course he should have felt right at home

      • Eleventy

        Criminals. We are all criminals.

        • Ella Raitch

          That’s the way uh huh uh huh we like it uh huh uh huh

      • Mmmmmmm. Scourings.

    • Iain

      Steve introducing Tony as the greatest Sci-covering journalist in the world. Of course!

      • Ella Raitch

        in the world…muah ha ha ha ha!!!

        • Jimmy3

          He’s never hit the third U.S. contintent, but that’s okay. No one knows where it is.

          • Ella Raitch

            *sobbing with laughter*

    • Iain

      Talking about LRH’s war record. Funny stuff.
      Removed from his commands…

      • War record, shmecord. Silver mullet man covered it.

        • Ella Raitch

          am now singing ‘silver mullet man’ to the tune of ‘secret agent man’

      • Eleventy

        The funny is killing me. It hurts to laugh with a broken rib.

        • Iain

          🙁 Sorry not to meet you Eleventy. Hope the rib is fixed before long.

          • Eleventy

            Me too. We will have to all meet up on Steve’s book tour.

    • Iain

      LRH embellished war record.
      Had some minor injuries, ‘healed’ himself with Dianetics

    • salin

      Thank you Iain, you are doing great live blogging. Greatly appreciated.

    • Iain

      Steve: Tommy Davis no longer involved

    • Iain

      Tony found that in March 2011, CSI registered whowastommydavis.com

      • Ella Raitch

        Tommy coulda had his own Freedumb mag cover!

      • Jimmy3

        What rank do we need to access that page? the DNS doesnt seem to be set up properly. Maybe it’s a wog thing…

        • ReallyMGM

          ICANN WHOIS search. whoistommydavis.com

      • Doc M

        Did he have to disconnect from Anne? Maybe that’s why he’s so snarly?

    • Iain

      Tommy went to Texas, ‘on leave from the sea org’ still a member of
      Has a really close source and Tommy is irritated that the source talks to Tony. But he says Tommy is actually out of the church, he just doesn’t talk about it.

    • Iain

      Fair game

    • Iain

      tony: Scientology tell you fair game is cancelled, it isn’t. Anybody works on Sci, you learn quickly about Paulette Cooper – noone has been through worse fair game.

    • Iain

      Tony: was a new reporter in Phoenix when he found Sci.
      One story led to another.
      Ended up in LA, met lots of sources

    • Iain

      He kept get encouragement to cover Sci… from Paulette.

    • Iain

      Inspirational to get that kind of encouragement from her.

    • Iain

      He went back to NY. Everything change because of Tom Cruise. When the turtleneck video leaked. In jan 2008 Sci tried to suppress it. Internet struck back.

      • Ella Raitch

        *yay internet* *yay anonymous*

      • Internet people can’t be trusted.

        • Juicer77

          (f5) 😉

    • Iain

      Tony had stories he’d never published, that now he knew there was an audience for. Audiences were ravenous for Sci detail

    • Iain

      Jason Beghe was the first celebrity to come out. Top executives like Marty Rathbun.
      Then May 2011. Paulette Cooper was very arrogant about TC’s huminatiran award from Simon WIesenthal centre. That reconnected her and Tony.

      • Ella Raitch

        Glad some good came out of that appalling award to Cruise. See how you pulled it in Tombo

    • Iain

      More about the story of Paulette.
      Tony: although everyone knew the story, the details were very murky with lots of bad info online.
      Wiki said she was born in Auschwitz.

    • Iain

      Paulette wasn’t sure how they survived the holocaust.
      That story went to Belgium and NL.
      Tony: early in war, Belgian Jews were safe. PAulette’s parents weren’t and were in danger.

    • Iain

      Tony worked out that her father had never seen her before he was killed.

    • Iain

      Transit camp commandant was bribed to save Paulette and sister.

    • Iain

      Paulette stowed away on a cruise liner as only men were doing it… And got massive press coverage

    • Ella Raitch

      Awesome job Iain

      • Iain

        Thanks, glad to help 🙂

    • EnthralledObserver

      Great job! Keep ’em coming.

    • Iain

      Sci was thriving when Paulette got in.
      She had trouble placing the story because it was already known how litigious sci is.
      Queen said please submit some work so we can consider if to give you assignments. She sent the work in and this time they decided to publish.

    • Iain

      Death threats didn’t deter her. She published ‘The Scandal of Scientology’. Surveillance, harrassment

    • Iain

      Australia angle: She got the ANdersen Report courtesy of a US State Dept official: ‘Here’s the document, I’m leaving the room. If when I reenter the doc’s no longer there, then that’s ok’

      • Ella Raitch

        Gotta love human nature

    • Iain

      Tony said his London publisher vetoed a couple of little things, including that story. 🙂

      • salin

        Awesome detail. Had missed that before.

    • Iain

      Tony discussing the Guardian’s Office and OSA

    • Iain

      Rumors. Obscene phonecalls.
      Paulette went on TV, recruited other journalists – her number was in the phonebook. She was a hub of info for those trying to leave

    • Iain

      Sci targetted her apartment block. Everyone else in building got a letter calling her a prostitute and child molester.
      Most people would back down. Paulette wouldn’t.

    • Iain

      The more they went after her, the more she was motivated to carry on.

    • Iain

      Finally a spy in the GO writes ‘It’s time to get her committed’
      Typed up a bomb threat to themselves with her fingerprint.

      • Ella Raitch

        That story had the journos on ABC’s The Drum aghast

    • Iain

      It wasn’t enough for Sci to get her committed.
      They had to see how badly she was suffering.

      • Ella Raitch

        DM is the same, with his daily OSA updates, and squirrel busters gopro recordings

    • Iain

      May-Sept 1973, a man called Jeremy lived with her and spied on her.
      Steve: How di dhtey get fingerprints?
      Tony: Prosecution didn’t happen, but they tried it again later. Then, Operation PC Freakout.

    • Iain

      Similar op to make it look like PC becoming psychotic.
      You give someone a clipboard with paper on the other side to collect fingerpirnt.

    • Iain

      There are very explicit instuctions to operatives on how to get the fingerprint

    • Iain

      There were other ops on her into the 80s
      They were keeping tabs on her till at least 2010!

    • Iain

      PC nearly took her own life.
      She can’t meet anyone without wondering if they’re a spy.
      (Lots of story…)

    • Iain

      Steve: They say ‘that was a rogue unit, those days are gone’
      Tony: That’s what they always say. (Talks about the disbanding of GO)
      It’s very clear that Mary Sue and LRH were in charge of what’s going on.
      OSA clearly spies on people. Do they now avoid at least illegal things?

      Then 10 days after Tony’s book on Amazon… he was notified by US Attorneys Office about the PI in NY who had targetted him with illegal hacking.

    • Iain

      Steve: They admit it was a rogue unit. But have they ever apologised.
      Tony: No, and she’s bitter about that. He tried to find the people. Wide variety reactions. One apologised to her. Others willing to talk but they still hated her guts. Others told him to f himself.

    • Iain

      Steve: Catholic church apologised for abuse. Why not Sci?
      Tony: There is no apology in Sci. They have the answer and the secrets, the rest of us our wogs. Why would they ever apologise?
      Steve: We all make mistakes
      Tony: Sci don’t. THey follow the tech standardly and correctly, or they don’t. That’s the answer to all problems. Some people say it’s all DM and things great under LRH. But LRH paranoia, attitudes about sci superior nature, that’s baked into Sci. You just don’t apologise.
      Steve: How much do they spend on surveillance?
      Tony: Marty Rathbun said re Lisa Mcpherson case – bribing judges – $30M. Two PIs recently investigated in WI. Money’s no object

    • Iain

      Tony: *They can’t change*. LRH is Source. Sci has the answers for everything. HE died in 1986. They can’t have a reformation. Some say DM is squirrelling the tech – he is making changes. But the playbook critics journalists, exmembers, right out of what LRH wrote in 60s.

    • Iain

      Talking about the ex cops following Pat Broeker. 24 hours a day for 24 years. $12M.
      Finally sacked 2 years ago. Told they had jobs for life, so they sued Scientology! For 1 day they talked. Tony had them for a day, then Tampa Bay Times.
      They were proud of the work they did!

    • Iain

      Tony talking about the If He Dies, He Dies moment. The crisis is, these guys being paid $10000 a week not to be discovered! If they intervene they are.

    • Iain

      Steve: Should the church get taxfree status?
      Tony: Some say NO church should. But Sci signed an agreement with IRS in 1993! Explicit conditions for revoking. They are in violation every. single. day. I would love to see IRS ask $10000 a week on the surveillance, how that is a religious purpose.

    • Iain

      Steve: Any chance of IRS revoking?
      Tony: I hear they have some interest in revisiting it, but such a mountain. Mike Rinder said if you’re an agency head IRS FBI or whatever, and you say look into Sci: you have to calc: Are you ready for that to be rest of your career.
      Maybe Going Clear is starting to get us there.

    • Iain

      Steve re Academy members getting Sci letters about Going Clear.
      Tony: After debut at Sundance in Jan, then theaters in March. Eligible for oscars & emmys. Winning an emmy can hurt your oscar chances? Becuas ethey think of it as TV movie. But I think there’s lots in Hollywood that don’t like that Sci has hurt the town for so long and want the chance to vote.
      Sci has had a reporter for Freedom call up members in Academy documentary division, pretending to interview them, plant seeds of doubt. Backfired – they knew what was going on. Has given a whole NEW round of free publicity.

    • Iain

      Questions

      • Ella Raitch

        Thanks so much Iain, and your fingers of fury

      • Kay

        Well done Mate !!

      • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

        Bravissimo! 😀

      • Frodis73

        Yes let me second what Ella said, thank you so much for live blogging for us. Great job!

      • Donna Cline Sargent

        thank you—excellent job

      • Iain

        Thanks everyone 🙂

        • ScaramouchenFandango

          I think everyone is deservedly thanking you.

          • Iain

            technically some of the thanks goes to you, I would’ve never tried it (or thought of it) if you weren’t egging me on 😉

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              I am a good egg(er) 🙂

    • Iain

      1. Given that Sci has shown itself to be criminal, I can understand that US can be squeamish about religion and constitution. Why is it allowed to be criminal and not investigated for tax?
      And to Steve – Australians aren’t squeamish!! we don’t blahdy care. 🙂 So why is Aus govt so light fingered.

      Steve: 1983 High Court judgment… decision that state shouldn’t dictate what people believe in. … Questionmark about tax free status though. If you can show harm, bring in a public interest test (Nick Xenophon has talked about).

      Tony: Criminality – #1 problem of law enforcement – it takes so long for Scientologists to even realize they were victimized. (Story of a child victim). Took her 5 years after out to realize she should sue them.
      Law enforcement say this is the biggest problem.

    • Iain

      2. What’s membership like in Aus now?

      Steve: Tommy said on 4 Corners TV program, there were 10s if not 100,000s.
      Last census said 2107.

      Tony: England said 2300
      Informal census in US said 25000
      something like 40000 worldwide

      1969 they claimed 15M people
      Kirstie claims 20M.

      Execs said at the absolute peak in 1990: 100,000

      Steve: Stats driven institution! They HAVE to say things are enormous.

      • salin

        lain, you are doing awesome reporting. Thank you.

    • Iain

      3. Scientologist asking
      I’m here to listen. Thanks for letting me in.
      Hypothetical : What if everything you talked about, what if it was listened to, what if the church changed.
      Would you as a journalist write about that? Or are you already too far down road of being critic

      Tony: Always waiting to report changes.
      Most basic thing: Talk about itself! Describe itself publicly.
      Talk about auditing. Why several years in and enormous money in to reveal OT3?
      Otherwise it’s a big bait and switch.

      The day Sci does that, I will celebrate it.
      But they follow the playbook from 1965.
      Some indies are trying to make those changes. But until Sci itself does, it’s really frustrating.

      Steve addressing the asker: I found you a very open minded scientologist – I had dealings with you. I have problems talking to people at top of CoS in Aus. Not granted me an interview since 2010. I am trained as a journalist to be fair, try and get all sides. But when I do reporting they don’t put people out. They hand a whole bunch of affidavits. When I ring them up (in US), can I speak to that person to test the claim? They’re never available.
      Exes I talk to, always available to test their claims. I do. How do I know you’re not lying, I say.
      Very openminded to other sides but very difficult

      Tony: Sci say we’re not talking to official channels.
      But I have sources inside. Very frustrated.

      Steve: Their internal justice imperils them. We can’t quote them.

      • Ella Raitch

        Great question and answer

      • noseinabk

        Wow!

      • EnthralledObserver

        Give that Scientologist a high five for at least listening. I wanted to talk to our Syd Sea Org guy, but didn’t get a chance.

      • Eleventy

        I’m sitting next to the scientologist. I was waiting for the Q&A to see if he was. He was the only one not laughing in the funnies.

        • Frodis73

          Lol, that must have been interesting. Is he alone? Try and talk to him!

          • Eleventy

            Yes, he is. I will when Tony and Steve finish.

            • Frodis73

              Give him a message from the SP’s at the Bunker: We think it’s so awesome you came out and were willing to listen…please keep listening and researching the truth.

        • Ella Raitch

          Good on them for being there.

        • EnthralledObserver

          omg – accost that person… whisper in his ear… smile, wink, nod understandingly, grasp the back of his shirt and don’t let him stand up and walk away. Test those communication skills. 😉

          • Ella Raitch

            Communicate the f#$% out of them

            • EnthralledObserver

              lol – exactly!

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              what a delicate situation–hope they get out

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          that says alot that they are there,it must take alot of courage. maybe they are having doubts. good luck

        • Eleventy

          Ok. My book is signed and I’m at the station on my way home to my painkillers. I briefly spoke to the Scientologist. He joined in his twenties (like Steve said they do), is active. I told him he was brave for coming here and I hope he wouldn’t get in any trouble for being here. He said he wouldn’t.

          He thinks Paulette was treated appallingly and her story is intriguing. If he could make an effective apology for the actions of the people involved he would. He says he is going to buy Tony’s book. And Steve’s when it comes out next year. He reads both the Scientology and critic material, as he thinks important to keep an open mind.

          I asked him if he had considered leaving. He said no, as he was in his 50’s and it was too late for him.

          That was pretty much the whole conversation. He was leaving and I wanted the jump in line to get my book signed.

          I would have liked to talk to him some more. He seemed very interesting. And if he is reading this, it’s not too late for you. You can leave, if you wish to do so. It’s not too late. The Bunker is here to support you. If not, all the best to you and your family and please keeps the dialog open if it is safe for you to do so. A scientologist who is open and willing to talk about their beliefs in a considered, logical manner seems to be a rare thing.

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            thank you for the update,hopefully this is his first steps out

          • madame duran

            Would’ve asked him if he plans to tell his fellow Scientologists or auditor about his presence at the Tony Ortega’s book tour event (and if not, why not?). Also ask if anyone from the local org knew about the event and were free to attend it.

            • Eleventy

              I got the distinct impression that he wouldn’t give a toss if they knew (or not) that he was there. He didn’t have any issues with his question being filmed. He has spoken to Steve before.

              I’m sure there would have been someone from the org watching the door.

            • madame duran

              So…is he an Indie? At the “half in, half out” stage (i.e. seeing faults of current church management but still holding on to Hubbard/tech)?

            • Eleventy

              He said he was active in the church, so not an Indie. Although, he may be in his mind.

              Someone else who was there and I was speaking to before things kicked off said she went to the Melbourne Org a couple of weeks ago. She asked for a tour, which they gave her, but they didn’t even try to sell her a book. There was a fundraiser on and there were only three people in attendance.

              Maybe they need every member they can get so they can keep the lights on.

            • Juicer77

              What a great job you did 🙂 Thanks so much for sharing that conversation. Fascinating. I wonder if this particular gentleman’s attitude is the template for the organized Co$’ downfall. Take away the fear = take away the power. *poof*

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              Spoke to a few ex’s at drinks and they felt sure that his presence was part of a project to gain information on what “The outside World” is saying about them.

            • Eleventy

              They needed to send someone to see that? All they have to do is turn on the TV or look at the interwebz. Am I attributing too much intelligence to them? Did the exes know who he was?

              As Steve had said he had dealt with him before and found him to be open, I took it at face value. I was watching his body language during the talk and it seemed relatively relaxed and open. There was the odd smile as well. He could have been searching for information, but he didn’t seem in anyway defensive or more attentive than anyone else there. But then again Scientology is always worse than you think.

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              They did know who he was, perhaps not by name, but have seen him at protests and Orgs. He is always asking why people are critical and why they protest. The ex’s seemed pretty certain he ain’t leavin any time soon. One told me that these types can be very good at seeming reasonable. One of the ex’s was EMMA from ESMB. They know their shit. Facinating.

            • Eleventy

              It is. What is the point of them doing that? Is it a recruiting method?

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              Woudn’t think so. Remember they don’t look at anything critical off their own bat, not the done thing. So no internet, radio or tv that has a critical slant. This is an opportunity to gain information to report back whilst making some in the audience uncomforatable IMO. Was a sure thing that someone in the audience would be there to do that. Emma explained to me that Melbourne is the strong hold in Australia. Not so much new recruites, rather the children of members marrying other scions. Gorgeous woman is she.

            • Eleventy

              They are an odd lot. Very odd.

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              That is true.

            • madame duran

              Gain information for himself or for the org?

              Re: gaining info on what “The Outside World” says about Scientology
              Ummm…why don’t they encourage their members to find out for themselves by searching on the Internet? Too logical? Oh right…control of information. Classic cult tactic. OSA already knows what the general public and media are saying about Scientology but won’t dare convey the truth of it to members for fear it would breed doubt/complaints. On the one hand, it’s telling Scientologists to beware of entheta yet on the other, it sends ‘spies’ to explore and expose themselves to entheta. It’s ridiculous.

            • ScaramouchenFandango

              Oh there is no sense to it. I was surprised to be told it was a project but the ex’s, who were in for a looong time, seemed very sure of it.

    • Iain

      4. What is it about Sci that attracts people?

      Tony: only appeals to a small percentage. They’re selling certainty. Find people with problems: We have a program to make you better. fill out checksheets. follow these procedures.
      That doesn’t work with me, I know there’s no magic formula. But there are a small number of people who like that. Pay cheque, get course materials, do it, I’m a superhuman.
      Even today. people find that intriguing.

      Steve: Panel in Sydney said: It’s people with a vulnerability. Find their ruin. Sportsmen with injuries. People with relationship problems.
      Tony: A smart physicist (!), who’d been through a bad breakup.
      At first they’re not talking superhuman powers. They say : comunicate better, take control of your life.
      Initial levels make you feel more confident, says Beghe.

      Steve: Vulnerability in younger age group. People who are idealistic.

    • Iain

      5. In Going Clear, not much spoken of origins of Sci.
      (‘way to get rich is invent a religion’ quote).

      Tony: Thought that was covered well in GC.
      Dianetics is the most misogynistic book!
      I doubted the ‘invent a religion’ quote but he told many people. George Orwell said something similar, but we know LRH said it.

      • Frodis73

        I have heard a few other people say that…I think they either fell asleep, were not paying attention or want some other kind of answer…

    • Iain

      6. Technicality that saw Jan Eastgate escape prosecution? Why wasn’t she re-charged?

      Steve: I did the story that exposed that. She would not talk to me on record or phone, just emailed me that they were false. I was never sued.
      (She is the president of the CCHR)

      DPP in NSW did charge her with pervert the course of justice. But that law didn’t exist at the time, it was *conspiracy* to pervert. Higher burden of proof then. DPP didn’t think the charge would succeed so they withdrew it.

      • Frodis73

        I hate that she got away with that. I hope it haunts her, but I doubt it.

    • Iain

      It’s over – I’m going to get a book signed 🙂

      • Ella Raitch

        Bunker Medal of ValoUr – rockin’ bloggin’ (f5)

        • Iain

          wow. 🙂

      • Qbird

        BRAVO BOY! Ya done great!!!

      • noseinabk

        You rocked it lain. Q and A is my favorite part and I thank you for giving us all the details.

      • salin

        Many thanks. Kept me up far past my bed time, as your reporting was frequent, and riveting. Bravo!

      • EnthralledObserver

        Awesome work – you earned a beer with Tony! 🙂

      • M from Toronto

        Mercy buckets Iain!
        You’re a natural, have you ever considered being a court recorder? (Seriously, good pay, civil service benefits… :)) )

        • Iain

          Haha, thanks.
          I didn’t by any means capture all that was said. It definitely gave me a new appreciation for the skills those people have.

    • I’ll be putting all you comments in order in my next blog post tomorrow [good job]

    • Iain

      Thanks for all the love everyone!

      I just been hanging out with Tony, Steve Cannae, and a handful of bunkerites & exes. Very enjoyable, Tony is a funny guy.

      • ScaramouchenFandango

        Great to meet you. You’re live bloggin was fabulous, well done you. Look forward to catching up again.

      • Juicer77

        Iain, thank you so much for a superlative job live blogging. I had to play catch-up and your comments were invaluable. Beautifully done! I nominate you for Best 2015 Live Blogger with Diamond Meritoriousness!

        • Ella Raitch

          Sarah James did a marvellous job too, with a lap top

          • Juicer77

            Yes! Thank you.

        • Iain

          Thanks… Wow that sounds awesome! Is it worth much on eBay? 😀

          • Juicer77

            LOL

      • Eleventy

        Where did you go? So many good bars around there.

        • Iain

          It was ‘Riverland bar’, between fed square and the river. Tony got bought some local beer and seemed to like it…

    • Illinoisian

      Thank you, lain! I’m awake early here in the middle of the US and your reports (from 7 hours ago) have made it a great Sunday morning.

      • Iain

        My pleasure.
        Wish it was still Sunday here 🙂 Oh well, sleep then work…

    • Free to shine

      You did really well! I didn’t realise you were blogging. 🙂 I posted a report on ESMB. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?40636-Tony-Ortega-s-book-tour-in-Australia&p=1069183#post1069183

      • Iain

        Thanks! Glad that the party went on long after I left 🙂

      • Iain

        Thanks and nice reporting 🙂

    • aquaclara

      Love seeing your live blogging here! Thank you so much for bringing this to all the rest of us here.

      Sounds like it was a terrific event….

      • Iain

        My pleasure, it was a fun challenge.
        It was great. Besides his skills as a journalist, Tony is such a great speaker. Full of crazy stories (well it is Scientology after all). Warm and funny and honest.
        I’m just hoping for TUML The Movie now 🙂

        • aquaclara

          Oh, he has the best stories! You just may have heard a few new ones, too, coming into the tail end of the book tour. He saved the best for last. I was at the NY event, so fabulous that was. He packed the house.
          Truly, I couldn’t pound out five sentences, so I very quickly learned how hard that live blogging thing is.

          Cheers to all of you Down Under Bunkerites! Post often….

  • EnthralledObserver

    Oh… shit, forgot there was daylight savings time difference. Melbourne happening NOW! lol

    • aquaclara

      Love your pics, EO! Thank you!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Fun Fact – Friday night (well, very early Saturday morning) we ended up in McDonalds, of all places, gathered around Tony at a Cultega worship/disucussion session.

    • Ella Raitch

      Cultega lol

    • Jimmy3

      Fun Fact: I once saw Tony Ortega’s face on the biscuit of a Sausage Egg n Cheese Biscuit at McDonalds. This was at least 7 years before I even knew who he is. You can call it a premonition, if you want. I just thought it was a yummy sam sam.

      • Kay

        I’m so moved by this McDonald’s spiritual premonition you had that I am in tears….sniff sniff

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          have you seen Daisy around anywhere ?

          • Kay

            No I haven’t…I’ve been wondering where she is.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              thanx—me too

            • Kay

              I’ll keep an eye out….

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              just hope all is well since she takes care of her mom

            • Kay

              Me too

            • salin

              ^^^ Donna. Missing her humor, and hoping all is well.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              i am going to try to find her in a old post and leave her a message and hope she gets it

            • Kay

              Good !! Let us know.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              ok will do

          • Ella Raitch

            I was wondering about her yesterday

      • EnthralledObserver

        So apparently we were right to worship in the Maccas cathedral then, eh?

    • Juicer77

      Now, now. We don’t worship him, we just buy him Egg McMuffins whenever he snaps his fingers. XD
      Sounds like a very Bunker evening! Glad you had fun!

  • In your face RTC. Later.

  • what’sup

    Iain is like the Batman of live blogging. You sure this is your first try?

    • Ella Raitch

      IKR?

    • Ella Raitch

      How are your skills on portable technology? I’m all thumbs without a full sized keyboard.

      • what’sup

        Sorry to leave you hangin’ darlin’ . I’m trying to multi task(house work), which I clearly suck at. So that should answer your question. It would read something like

        Tony: Startsvhjg hitchhiker. Judge bcfhi…you get the idea.

        • Ella Raitch

          It would help if Diqsuq had an app…on my phone if I have oriented so I can type the text is absolutely miniscule

    • EnthralledObserver

      I was trying to do it on my phone… it’s hard. I would recommend a laptop if you’re going to try. Maybe Iain has one? At any rate, he’s surpassing my efforts, lol… Go Iain!

      • salin

        You did great. And pictures later. We all could vicariously experience the event due to your efforts. Many thanks.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Thanks… anything is better than nothing, for sure, and I tried. 🙂

          • salin

            It was *way better* than anything. Couldn’t read it in real time – but several hours when I could, it felt like real time. You captured big ideas and important comments. It was a great read. When you added the photos was dessert. Again, many thanks.

          • Ella Raitch

            You were great EO, particularly with the questions. Gave us that feeling of being connected in real time.

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            thank you and the pics make it so much better

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            i was hours late too,but you nailed it

      • what’sup

        Sorry I missed that mate, RL gettin in the way. Saw the photo’s. Fully Sick.

      • ScaramouchenFandango

        I loved reading your live blog. I was on the edge of my couch I tell’s ya. It inspired me to bug Iain to live blog today. He did have his laptop, much easier.

    • M from Toronto

      I’m not only impressed, I’m amazed.

      • Eleventy

        Me too. He did a great job.

  • Allie

    Didn’t someone mention that Melbourne was going to be videotaped or did I imagine that?

    • Ella Raitch

      Both Sydney and Melbourne I believe

    • EnthralledObserver

      I believe that is the case, yes.

    • Eleventy

      Yes, it’s being filmed.

  • M from Toronto

    The Godson can’t sleep, so he was checking the pre-order of Leah’s book, then he visibly deflated.
    Why?
    He sees a missed marketing opportunity. The book is coming out on November 3rd, he thought it was November 5th.
    He has a very good point, not only marketing, that would be even more enturbulation. :))

    • Ella Raitch

      November 5th?

      • Observer

        Guy Fawkes Day

        • Ella Raitch

          Of course! Thank U

    • Frodis73

      Remember remember the 5th of November…

      • M from Toronto

        For gunpowder, treason and plot…

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          I know of no reason the gunpowder treason…

        • Frodis73

          I really love that ‘book’. Didn’t think I’d like it because I’m not into comics…when my boyfriend passed it on to me 20+ years ago, I was like thanks, but no thanks. He said, trust me, it’s good. Couldn’t put it down.

          • Zeruel (Sebastian)

            Try Watchmen.

            • Frodis73

              Yeah, V really made me more open to other forms of media like the graphic novel. So glad I didn’t like my dislike of comics to turn me away.

            • Zeruel (Sebastian)

              “Travolta just as bad. Possible homosexual? Must investigate further.”

          • M from Toronto

            I read it, since I’ve spent many many November nights setting fire to a great pile of rubbish (after beating the hell out of the effigy) so I wanted to see incompetent Guy get some love as inspiration for the heroes of the story. I thought it was really effective, though I do like graphic novels, so there’s that.

  • new bollocks https://www.scientologybollocks.com/dutch-courts-give-a-massive-fuck-you-to-scientology-probably-followed-by-the-belgians-next-week/

    no gif but here’s a pic of the going price of a sterling silver ‘Going Clear’ silver bracelet recently sold on ebay… wonder how much it actually cost the original buyer

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)

      Incidentally, I spy a companion for my Mark V e-meter this Christmas…

      • Frodis73

        $300!! How outrageous. I can’t believe the clams pay 3k, but $300 for a used one is still about $290 more than it’s worth.

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          The Mark V’s this seller sold were about fifty bucks cheaper, but he’s taken them off his listings now for some reason.

        • MaxSpaceman

          and the latest release a while back — the meters that Rinder wrote had been in storage 10 years (you can’t make that sh1t up!) — clocked in at $5,000 each. And 2 per Scilon member was required.

      • Robert Eckert

        Hitler and Goebbels are taking a stroll, and Hitler is ranting “How can the Jews do so much damage to the world? There aren’t so many of them!”
        “But they’re smarter than we are,” Goebbels replies.
        “What do you mean?” Hitler says, getting a bit redder.
        “I’ll show you,” Goebbels says and leads him into a Jewish-owned shop. He points at a beer stein sitting on the shelf and says “I like that stein, but do you have one like it that is left-handed?”
        “I’ll see,” says the Jew, takes the stein into the back, comes back with it and puts it back on the shelf with the handle the other way.
        So they buy the stein and as they’re leaving the shop Goebbels says “See what I mean?”
        “No, what do you mean? He was just lucky he had one in stock!”

    • Qbird

      Pre-owned. Now pawned. A chain. SOLD to the highest bid.
      Yeah, how much did this cost the original owner?
      Wonder too, if it was another scientologist who bought it?

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        Or if it was a wog (like me) pillaging artifacts.

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    Who is the HowdyCon point man in Chicago?

    • Supper Powers

      Chee Chalker

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        How often is he on here?

    • Ella Raitch

      Chee Chalker (? 80% sure)

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        .How often is he on here?

        • Ella Raitch

          Regularly – posts ever other day, I’d say. I thing Chee is a she.

          • Zeruel (Sebastian)

            Good. What does her avatar look like?

    • Nat-leficent

      Chee Chalker

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        ..How often is he on here?

        • Frodis73

          Quite often. I also think Chee is a woman, but not totally sure about that one.

          • Zeruel (Sebastian)

            What does her avatar look like?

            • Frodis73

              I don’t remember…a dog maybe. Pretty sure was here yesterday.

            • Zeruel (Sebastian)

              Okay thanks, I’ll look out for her.

  • Lady Squash

    Really great news about the Dutch denying tax exempt status to the Cherch. Maybe it will start a trend. : ) Looks like good times in Sydney, Tony. Keep up the good work. What you are doing is important.

  • EnthralledObserver

    A quick shout-out to Frankie – what an awesome lady, we met up with Frankie before the Sydney event, had a fantastic conversation over a delicious meal, and took front row seats for the action. She live blogged until her phone went flat, and that’s her pic Tony used above. Love you, Frankie – you’re fantastic! 🙂 *hugs* Thanks for meeting up with us!

    • Ella Raitch

      Note to self – bring back up battery charger pack.

      • MaxSpaceman

        won’t need it if you have a 2nd battery ready-charged, pop it in and continue 🙂

        • Ella Raitch

          Hmm – my son does have the same phone…..

      • Juicer77

        Invaluable. I have a Sentey 7800 mah portable battery/charger and it’s worth its weight in platinum. It will charge an android smartphone to 100% twice, and has two USB ports so you can charge 2 devices simultaneously. $15USD. The one I got isn’t available anymore but you can find comparable models.

    • Frankie

      Wow thanks EO – you and your hubby were awesome company too. What an amazing night and so fantastic to meet people who also fell down the Rabbit Hole and landed in the Bunker! Smart, fun and endlessly curious!

      • EnthralledObserver

        My phone is currently charging… but I’ll MMS you that pic of us with Bryan Seymour when it’s charged. 😉

        • Frankie

          Thanks!

    • Frankie

      We also met some amazingly knowledgeable people who frequent the Bunker and don’t or seldom post here, including some Anons and Exes. And of course a rare privilege to meet Tony, Bryan and Steve – their passion, persistence and genuine desire to expose the truth was so palpable.

      • Ella Raitch

        That’s what I’m excited for – all of those people living nearby who share this knowledge. And you had front row seats!

      • Luke Martinelli

        Anons were there too? Most of the group lost interest over the years, would’ve been nice to see who was still following along with me.

  • Eleventy

    If anyone is hanging out with Tony and Steve, get them up to Trunk to continue the religious theme. The first synagogue in Melbourne, is now a bar. And it’s outside bar is built to look like a W class tram.

    Pro tip: Don’t eat the chicken wings.

    • Tony Ortega

      Had lunch there today.

      • Eleventy

        As you didn’t look pale and clammy, I’m guessing you didn’t have the wings. Good move.

        What did you think of the place?

        If you are in need of good coffee in the morning, head down to Decoy. It’s a few doors down from Trunk. They roast their own beans.

  • ScaramouchenFandango

    We r off to hv a drink. Wot fun, great talk. Lucky me.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Kudos to lain, who really has a gift for conveying an event onto a blog.

    It was like seeing a blow-by-blow event coming in on the telex. Oh wait– uhm. On the comment board.

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)
    • ScaramouchenFandango

      He did an excellent job, nice to share the experience with those that couldn’t be there.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Those who couldn’t be there were hanging on every telex comment like glue.

  • I.C.N.SP

    Great to meet some fellow Bunkerites this afternoon – and to meet The Proprietor!

    • ScaramouchenFandango

      Certainly was. Thought you were coming with us for a drink. Do you have a throw away email addy?

  • beauty for ashes

    Thanks lain! You surpassed expectations. 🙂

  • OneThrough8

    Here’s some Dutch music to celebrate the Dutch Victory! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UbfJYJW8c

  • Newiga

    Sorry if this has been posted previously but Chris Shelton has posted a new Q&A video. Digging in now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddXITW6dbck

    • B4you

      Yay!

    • B4you

      $cientology is advertising on gay sites! mmmOk!

      • Newiga

        I saw a video from a JW critic who also had some Scio ads linked to his videos. I though it was hilarious and apologized his viewers for the ads.

        I haven’t see any Scientology ads (par from Search Engine Ads) anywhere… I supposed it’s due to my location.

        • B4you

          Google has a strange problem with misplaced ads. Robots don’t always connect the dot’s as humans do!

        • Juicer77

          I had saw a flood of them on YouTube around Jan 2014, then a handful hit again early this year (Feb I think). One ad in late September this year. Since then, nothing. Methinks the Co$ PR folks don’t understand how real technology works. Heh heh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6OpqswCugo

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Dammit, I still see them a lot. Guess that says something about my search habits, eh?

            • Juicer77

              All my Mistie-ing probably throws off the matrices. 🙂

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Mistie-ing…???

            • Juicer77

              Mystery Science Theater binge watching.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Oh! Ha ha. A good one for binge watching.

            • Juicer77

              We just finished all the episodes of Fear the Walking Dead. Going to binge watch the original tonight to start this season! Moving really screws with my TV watching habits! I’m VERY cautious not to see spoilers on the webz. LOL

              Shut up, J3!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              On average I have watched at least one episode every day for the last 6 years.

      • Graham

        Are they actively advertising or is it just one of those algorithm accidents? From the sites you visit google will be well aware of your interest in Scientology so may be tailoring ads on your screen accordingly?

        • B4you

          No, it was Chris S. that talks about $cn-ads on his patreon site and as an example, he also heard about $cn ads on gay sites.

        • Newiga

          Most likely the latter… Google shows you ads based on e.g. your location or interests (search history, sites you’ve visited etc.)…

        • ReallyMGM

          Serves them right after the dirty tricks they played with Karen and Jeffery’s YouTube channel take down.

        • Juicer77

          Algorithm from the way Chris describes it. He is really amused, which must be infuriating for the Co$ higher-ups. At least a tiny portion of the Co$ coffers is going to real information dissemination!

      • anoni81b4u

        Gayness .. its all the rage 🙂

  • Dave Reams

    In other words, the average hourly cost of “auditing and training” (in the Netherlands in 2011) was $573/hr and $270/hr for intensives.

    • ReallyMGM

      The intensive is more than twice what a licensed, board-certified psychologist would charge per hour, and most insurance covers some if not all of it.

      • Dave Reams

        In Buddhism, another religion with the ultimate aim of “total freedom” through living in accordance with the “[Eightfold path] to happiness”, munks are not allowed to charge for their teachings. Indeed, munks are not allowed to own anything, even food. All that they eat must be offered by lay people before each mealtime.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Sunday, 25 October 2015.

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Wednesday 21st : All California, SFBay leads LA.
    Thursday 22nd : SFBay scraped in and saved the day
    Friday 23rd : NO SCORE
    Saturday 24th : SFBay & NY scraped in and saved the day

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Big Ben enhanced by Bob Kåre for RedX, and flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/15778968643/in/set-72157642802079293

  • BraveBloggers

    Im not sure if anyone has posted this to the Bunker before but, here is a charity navigator site. Charity navigator.org. You can type in charities and see form 900s, board me members, their salaries, graphics, charts, salaries etc.

    http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5631#.Viyhv3D3arU

    You can search different charities out there and see alleged money on books, what % is fundraising versus spent on charitable activities, how the program is set-up (summary such as a board members, who is on it, how much they get paid, if there is donor privacy, how much transparency the organization has, etc., etc.,). I started by looking at Catholic Charities for a base line and then put in Scientology which brought me to the CCHR page – the only one directly linked to the word Scientology. Jan Eastgate was the name on it along with a 50K + salary as President and two VPs, Fran Andrews and Maria Filidei with salaries of 53k+ and 54k+. To see that fundraising is minuscule compared to other activities is rather…interesting knowing what is a known factor regarding fundraising tactics. Just thought I’d share seeing as how charitable activities was one of the backbones of the piece today.

    They show a negative balance overall of 279k with a total taken in somewhere around 2.7 million. These are rough figures, not exact, as I’m flipping back and forth. The facts and figures are what is reported I guess, but I don’t have the time nor in-depth knowledge many have about all of the front groups and things to research. Plus I’m not sur to what degree this site has oversight for accuracy, but I found it interesting in light of the courts latest ruling and when comparing it with other groups.

    I compared it to things such as the Red Cross. Narcanon doesn’t appear at all. Or volunteer ministers (using the search info I put in.)

    If this is a repeat I apologize, but I thought it was worth mentioning and listing for those who have the time, intellectual capacity and ability to deconstruct such things. Who knows…I may have found little…but the fastest growing religion with charitable projects out the wazoo and I can only find one linked to Scientology directly, and its operating on such a small scale (& of course in the “red” is worth pointing out IMO for public consumption. Of course this info is only as good as the org reporting it and who knows what oversight is there. Again, I didn’t dig very deep at all. But just enough to make me scratch me head,

    • Juicer77

      Feel better! Thanks for this reminder. Very helpful to compare apples to apples.

    • In the UK you can access the accounts and the records of registered charities – including various Narconon entities. https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/narconon-in-the-uk-part-one/

      It’s interesting that they hardly ever show a surplus, or even accumulate a reasonable amount of working capital. They also spend very little money on their stated purpose – most of their income is ‘sent uplines’.

      Since they can’t make a profit for Scientology, they exploit the legal fiction that Narconon is an independent organisation paying ‘franchise’ fees for using ‘the tech’. In this way, the profit they pass on to CofS (through a series of nested front groups) is disguised as ‘operating expenses’. Of course, these fees are ludicrously high in comparison to the cost of providing the ‘service’.

      I’ll bet ‘special arrangements’ are also in place such that most of the
      officer’s salaries make their way back to CofS coffers in the form of
      ‘donations’.

      Like Orgs Narconon is constantly stripped of an money that it makes.

      • BraveBloggers

        Very good knowledge to have. Thank you. Your salary theory also passed through my NyQuil filled brain.

        I also found it interesting the small portion of fundraising compared to the other fundraising that occurs in CoS w/Ideal Orgs. It made me think of the Garcia case…how many people were fundraised for that charity and donated money (which may make them recipients of awards) or whatever, but may neve have been used towards CCHR. And that may be perfectly legal. I don’t know. But….Follow me for a second here and know this is purely hypothetical and sort of like your 4th grade teachers math problems. Like if Bill had $3,000 and bought 12 apples and the apples each cost $40.00 how much money does Bill have now? Ok, here we go.

        (Caveat: I’m not saying this happened…it’s a what if scenario.)
        “If” 200 people (random #) donated for that period stated on the report; and that total donated amount added up to more than 2.7 million….where is the rest of the $ and how would they be in the red? Because being in the red appears good since your not amassing money, right?

        Question: does CoS, in the many items they mail out (many seen seen on Mike’s site) share a “status” for what one donated to the CCHR campaign? Also,
        Said donation would be tax deductible.

        Perhaps the IRS would be able to see if that is an accurate amount (which it may be). If it is – it shows the small reach of that program truly is….particularly if compared to some of the statistics thrown around in that MV video awhile ago (though that’s not the same year obviously), but regardless they say things in videos, magazines and inside church lines that many outside never see.

        So, maybe the public are told one thing….how many ways the CCHR campaign has helped, but the reports that many people never see might not add up to how many apples were bought and how much $ is left in Bill’s wallet, so to speak.

        If that is a 100% honest report…it isn’t anywhere near as much as the CCHR campaign appears to be hyped up to be regarding helping (at least monetarily) if it isn’t an honest assessment where is the rest of money going?

        Again, to be clear, I am in no way am saying that the CCHR campaign isn’t 100% legitimate in their reporting. I’m just taking some questions for a walk to see “if” they were questions others had considered or seen status for the CCHR donations that topped that specific amount.

        I also wonder where the other charitable activities they report are located? Perhaps regionally or by state or other countries or perhaps they count by man hours as I’ve seen through other material CoS has put out.

        In any case I just found the contrast to things such as the Red Cross and Catholic Charities as a comparison worthy of mentioning. I’m not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, just curious. And that curiosity doesn’t start or end at CoS charities.

  • Mockingbird

    I just found this – Scientology and Totalitarianism
    http://www.xenu.net/archive/thesis/index.html