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Scientology’s Drug Rehab Network Stymied in Canada, Sued by Insurers, Generally Screwed

Take off, Clark! Er, hoser!

Take off, Clark! Er, hoser!

Oh, Narconon. For so many years you were Scientology’s reliable cash cow, doing your best to pretend that you actually had nothing to do with the church itself, but basking in the glow of testimonials by Scientology’s biggest celebrities — Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and Kirstie Alley, who all parroted that you were doing legitimate work as a drug rehab network.

And now, it’s all falling apart so fast we can hardly keep up.

Last night, we confirmed the news that Narconon’s attempt to purchase a 150-acre tree farm in Hockley Village, northwest of Toronto, for a large new drug rehab facility was foiled when the owner sold to a local buyer.

Meanwhile, NarcononReviews.net broke the news last week that one of Narconon’s insurers has filed suit over the lies Narconon Georgia’s executives told a court there. And we have just learned that another insurer has also filed suit as a result of the same mess in the Atlanta suburbs.

Atlanta is burning, Toronto said “Take off, hoser,” and Narconon’s woes only seem to be multiplying.

First, the big news in Canada. Since July, Scientology’s Sea Org members masquerading as Narconon executives were putting on a full-court press in Hockley Village, trying to convince the local populace that it was a good idea for the family of Conservative MP Donald Blenkarn — who died last year — to sell Blenkarn’s idyllic 150-acre parcel for a new rehab facility.

On July 19, Narconon International president and sometime standup comic Clark Carr met with local residents to answer their questions.

“I think they were expecting three people to show up, and more than 100 did,” says a person who is close to the sale who did not want to be named for fear that Scientology would retaliate after losing out.

“Carr was creepy. He seemed like a used-car dealer. He seemed like a big con man to me,” the person told us. “The way he answered questions, he didn’t answer things completely. And when someone asked who would actually be the purchaser, he said Scientology would be buying it and ‘gifting’ it to Narconon. He actually said it like that.”

That is creepy.

After that first meeting, and through August, local resistance to the sale grew, and lawn signs opposing the sale to Narconon appeared as local residents did a lot of research about Scientology.

Local residents were already wary because the church seems to be targeting the area in a big way. In 2009 Scientology purchased a former resort in nearby Orangeville to convert into its newest “Advanced Org” — a facility for delivering Scientology’s expensive upper-level teachings, which involve exorcising invisible alien souls, known as body thetans, for about a thousand dollars an hour. And now, just a few kilometers away, a major Scientology drug rehab? Residents could be forgiven for asking themselves, why us?

Meanwhile, our informant tells us that the Blenkarn family wanted a “community-friendly” buyer for the Hockley Village parcel.

“They’re still going to live here. They didn’t want to be the black sheep in the community. They wanted to do the right thing.”

The sellers were asking $2.9 million for the parcel, and our informant tells us the sales price was in that neighborhood. Scientology then came back with a counter offer for more money, but the seller turned it down.

“The buyers had already let them know that they weren’t interested in getting into a bidding war,” our informant says. So the seller didn’t budge.

“I don’t think it would have fit into Donald Blenkarn’s wishes to see it go that way, to Narconon.”

Our informant tells us that the local residents had quickly researched the situation after Scientology came to town — a testament to the work of campaigners like David Love, whose constant efforts to expose Narconon resulted in another Canada facility, in Quebec, being shut down by health officials last year.

We asked Love for his thoughts about this latest development.

Well Tony, I’ve been in close, constant contact with some concerned citizens in Hockley. I was aware that with Narconon Trois-RiviΓ¨res being shuttered, they would try to open in Ontario. There are two Scientology physicians in Ontario who were seeing Narconon Trois-RiviΓ¨res students when Dr. Labonte was banned. I filed a formal complaint with the Ontario College of Physicians some time ago. Since Carr appears to have the financial means and the support of David Miscavige, I expect that he’ll try for another property as close as possible to the new planned Advanced Org. Now that some of the Hockley citizens have taken up the cause to keep Narconon out of Ontario by contacting officials, I will help them as much as possible. This is a community that perhaps should be an example of what people can achieve when they stand together, shoulder to shoulder in battle.

Meanwhile, Narconon’s ill-fated facility in the Atlanta suburbs continues to generate worlds of hurt for Scientology.

The 2008 death of patient and employee Patrick Desmond led to a lawsuit brought by his parents. It was eventually settled, but not before a stunning set of documents was unearthed by Desmond family attorney Jeff Harris, documents which have led directly to state criminal investigations of insurance and credit card fraud, and a raid by police. One of the key issues: Narconon Georgia was only licensed to run as an outpatient clinic, but it was quietly running a residential, inpatient program, and lied to prospective clients and at least one drug court that it was licensed to house patients.

Those untruths are coming back to bite Narconon in a big way. As NarcononReviews.net’s Ann explained Friday, the Evanston Insurance Company has filed suit, asking that its insurance policy with Narconon Georgia be voided from its beginning, “meaning that Evanston would not be required to cover any of the legal costs or judgments against any of the entities named as defendants in the class action case. Narconon will be required to either find another provider, or cover the costs themselves,” Ann explains.

And now, another insurance company is piling on. Western World Insurance had previously filed suit against Narconon, then had put its lawsuit on hold. But now the suit is back with a vengeance, as one of our legal advisers explains to us after looking through the documents…

An insurance company has a duty to pay for the defense of a company that it insures if the company is sued. This is a fundamental aspect of a business insurance policy. Western World Insurance has been trying for well over a year to get out of paying for the defense of Narconon in the Desmond lawsuit. Eight months ago Western World agreed to cover the defense but stated that it would re-open its lawsuit when the case was over. Western World has now re-opened its lawsuit and it incorporates into its amended complaint the revisions to the Desmond complaint that were made after Western World’s initial filing, i.e., it brings its former complaint up to date.

If the court rules that Western World is not liable for any of the defense costs of Narconon Georgia, Western World wants the court to order Narconon to give back all of the money Western World spent defending Narconon.

Western World names the Desmonds as defendants because it wants any court order to relieve Western World from having to pay any money demands from the Desmonds (i.e., to pay a judgment or other costs). Western World wants to walk away without having to pay any money for Narconon’s defense or judgment or settlement.

In order to get the court to relieve it of the duty to defend, Western World points to the fraud and false statements of Narconon, and there are many. It also points to the lies Narconon told in its insurance application, such as one year saying it had only outpatient treatment, and then later saying it was licensed for residential treatment. Both statements were fraudulent. Western World also argues that Narconon breached the insurance agreement by making false and misleading statements in court and by failing to produce documents. This led the court to rule Narconon had no right to submit an answer. Western World argues that Narconon’s actions meant it failed to cooperate in its own defense, and the insurance policy says Western World should not have to pay when that happens.

The Evanston case is very similar. It seems that Narconon, again, wants the insurance company to pick up the tab for its defense. Evanston wants to be relieved of having to defend Narconon, and it is offering to return the insurance premiums. Evanston names every party in the class-action lawsuit as a defendant because it wants the court to rule that no party can look to Evanston for any money, whether the money is for lawyers or judgment or settlement. In the event that the court doesn’t relieve it completely of its duty to defend, Evanston asks the court to rule that it doesn’t have to pay any claims that result from things Narconon did that are outside the policy, like claiming a cure rate. That kind of promise is expressly excluded from the policy. Now that the Desmond case is over, and there is more evidence of Narconon wrongdoing, Evanston may have a better chance than Western World did before of getting the court to side with it.

For longtime Narconon watchers, this day was all too predictable. As we’ve been reporting for the last year, nearly every part of Narconon’s business model is designed to be deceptive — from luring in prospective patients with boiler-room websites that hide their connections to Narconon, to keeping those prospective patients and their families in the dark about Narconon’s connection to Scientology. Patients are told that they’ll get individualize drug counseling in a setting with medical personnel, when they’re actually getting Scientology training with employees who are former patients, some with hardly any training at all.

Is it any wonder that insurance companies are thinking twice about defending a business that can’t tell a single straight fact about itself?

 
——————–

Bill Strauss and the Freewinds

Another gripping tale from Karen de la Carriere, J. Swift, and the Angry Gay Pope…

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on September 4, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • i-Betty

    David Love. What a guy. He’s literally everywhere!

    • villagedianne

      Love is everywhere! sounds like a meme.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Narconon is scientology naked. No religious cloaking to protect criminal, even deadly, deceptive activity. Scientology might get away with murder. Narconon cannot even get away with insurance or credit card fraud and they have the nerve to whine about it.

    My questions still is: Why was Miscavige so desperate for a cash cow when he he had enough cash whales to keep him floating in luxury and armed with legal pit bulls?

    Speaking of pit bulls, I was amused at first that all Super Power attendees had to fill out a form of unknown questions for information mining and to get a special I.D. badge. However, I was alarmed when I heard and saw Darth Vander’s pictures of guards with guard dogs now (no, not pits). I sure hope no one from the Clearwater community, who might just also be more than alarmed, alerts the media of this sight. Will the FOI be out in bow ties next? Will the whales have to bring their own bodyguards? Will the slaves be wearing this season’s fashionable leashes or will be GPS chips just be installed?

    http://i42.tinypic.com/2e0iqug.jpg

    • Sid_Sn

      “My questions still is: Why was Miscavige so desperate for a cash cow when he had enough cash whales to keep him floating in luxury and armed with legal pit bulls especially when it exposed the criminal deception?”

      Every single time the CofS speaks publicly, or is involved in a legal situation, I always AND I MEAN ALWAYS shake my head in wonderment at the stupidity of their statements, their actions and their strategies.

      There are clearly many reasons for this…

      Coming out fighting, regardless of the merits of the accusation, is the nature of the beast. Miscavige is following Hubbard to the letter, and conveniently is a violent sociopath.
      Lying their asses off, regardless of the truth of the accusation, is the nature of the beast. Miscavige is again following Hubbard to the letter, and a key point here is that EVERYONE involved in the CofS is trained and comfortable with lying, sorry – “telling an acceptable truth” or outright lying “for the greater good of the 3rd dynamic” i.e. the CofS.
      Being “reasonable” is considered almost universely a positive character trait. Steven Covey made a small fortune out of the idea of “think WIN/WIN”. In Scientology however, the word “reasonable” is used as an insult.
      Miscavige, and Hubbard before him, learned that with enough legal firepower he can get himself out of most situations, and he has a lot of legal firepower.

      So although the behaviour of the CofS never makes sense, it makes perfect sense if you read Hubbard’s policies and teachings.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        But he has the IAS for the fattest cash holy cow of all time. All it costs him is one tent and an army of guards. Okay, now two guard dogs. I’m thinking Bernie Madoff is kicking himself for not calling his scheme a religion when he looks at what DM is pulling with the IAS bit. And he’s Still selling Super Power floors and cabinets, for Xenu’s sake. But not even sleazeball attorneys would advise him to f*ck with the insurance and credit card companies even With the religious cloak of armor. No, it does not make sense, other than he has gone Full Mental.

        • Phil McKraken

          It’s because EVERY Scientology entity MUST defraud. It’s Source. It’s hardwired into the tech. If you’re not stealing by every avenue, you are not doing the greatest good across the greatest number of dynamics. Leave no money on the table. Utterly.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That’s a given. But orders come from the top, always. Even creative conmen, if they start pulling down big wads of cash, you can Bet within an hour someone will show up to find out how it was done and then implement it broadscale.

          • USA MRIID

            To the point where the psychopaths don’t pay their electric bills unless they’re sued, quite often.

        • Gerard Plourde

          The IAS is probably getting tapped out by now by the constant regging and there are very few new bodies coming into the shop who can pay for services (tellingly,Monday’s story about Manuela Oliveira and Iliana and Veronica Galvez highlights the push to recruit new members into the Sea Org, not to remain public, paying members). We’re not talking about a vast number of people. My guess is that at his point the bulk of Scientology’s income flows from Narconon.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That’s a nice thought, Gerard. Hope it is true. The real whales shell out Millions though. And what does he have for expenses, really? The orgs all pay obscene and unsustainable chunks uplines off the top. The members are buying his buildings and even renovations and sometimes furnishings. If he’s down to just 100 whales, with a minimum of $100 Million, I don’t know, I think I could get by with that as my annual gross.
            There has Always been intense pressure to recruit into Sea Org and it has to be worse now. The thing about Narconon is that he doesn’t have the nauseating protections from the law man. At best it is the risky behavior of a gambling addict. We shall see.

            • WildaBeast

              Even if he’s still pulling in $100 million a year, a considerable amount of that is going to pay lawyers, PIs for dead agenting, PIs for harassing people like the Rathbuns, settlements for lawsuits so Homunculus Horribilis (I really like that one!) doesn’t have to testify, etc. Here’s hoping that more is going out than is coming in!

            • Missionary Kid

              I think that there’s still more coming in than going out, but it’s diminishing.

              The opening of the COBiseum will give some indication. There’s billions to run through before Davey gets broke. I just hope that all his money gets tied up in litigation.

            • USA MRIID

              Traditional criminal enterprises take money off of the take pile and squirrel it away in numerous bank accounts, each crime boss or ringleader maintaining their own stash. As the criminal enterprise starts to fail, the ringleaders are loath to take money from their stash to fund the effort to keep the syndicate running, they devolve to fighting among themselves about who should transfer money from their own off-shore numbered accounts and what amounts each ringleader should pay.

              So it is for Miscaviage and his fellow crime bosses, they’re all looking at the worsening financial situation as customer counts dropped below 40,000 world-wide, they’re looking at the dollar amounts that trickle up, they’re looking at the “whale” rubes and what they’re being rooked successfully out of, finally they are without a doubt arguing among themselves about which of them should be ponying-up the take they have squirreled away.

              That’s how traditional organized crime works. This criminal enterprise probably experiences the same behavior among its top ringleaders.

            • Poison Ivy

              But is there anyone he’s actually sharing it with?

            • grundoon

              COBiseum!?

              +1 !

            • Missionary Kid

              I didn’t come up with it. I just selected it from all the wonderful suggested names Bunkerites have provided for the SP building.

              Some of the others I liked were the Suppressive Person Building, The Tomb, Miscavige’s Last Stand, and Flagwarts. There’s 29 in all.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              To be sure he still amasses a tidy sum on the side, and maybe has already got himself the perfect bolt-hole in case of emergency.

            • WildaBeast

              It only has to be the size of a mouse-hole to fit the Demented Midget…

            • USA MRIID

              The violently insane dwarf used to use in-house “captive” lawyers to commit his crimes for him, now the insane asshole is using actual lawyers which costs his remaining customers serious money.

            • Poison Ivy

              I could get by on that, too. Anyone could get by on a miniscule fraction of that. But remember DM’s lifestyle and overhead. Even though they pay the help basically nothing, he’s living like a celebrity.

              People often ask me how celebrities who make such huge paychecks go through their money. Just look at their lifestyles. Look at your own overhead and think about how close you could come to the edge if you just increased it by, say, one more mortgage payment for at just one second home. Now add to that a caretaker for that home. A wardrobe full of designer clothes that have to be always changing to keep you as a style icon. Weekly beauty treatments. Hair and makeup for all special events. A stylist. Bodyguards. First class or private air travel, for both domestic and international travel (your work travel is covered, but you don’t just travel for work.) First class accommodations. First class restaurants. A personal chef. A personal trainer. At least one personal assistant. A financial manager. A dog walker. A nanny. A top of the line security system for your home(s). An appropriate luxury car/cars. Your high end “hobbies” – skiing at Aspen, golfing, boating. A publicist. Legal expenses (your lawyer probably takes a percentage of your deals (10%) as does your agent (10%), as does your manager (15%)). Plus the huge taxes on your huge income and the accountancy firm to try and make those taxes go away. You aren’t a person any more, you, the individual, are now a small business. (You are likely running your life through a loan-out company)

              Add on to that a drug/alcohol/gambling/hooker/compulsive spending habit, or blackmail money from an unwise tryst, or relatives that you’re now supporting, or alimonies and child support from your various marriages, and you find yourself in a situation that you have to keep making more and more money to keep up that lifestyle.

              Davey’s in the same position. Except he doesn’t have to pay taxes on his business related lifestyle, and pretty much everything he does I”m sure he writes off to business. It would be very interesting for an auditor to go through RTC’s expenses. I don’t know how they would be able to claim many of those expenses as “religious” in nature.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              I positively salivate at the very idea of an AUDIT.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I definitely understand the keeping up with the jones’ aspect of living large. And yes, we all want to see what is obvious inurement by an IRS agent.

            • Interested

              You almost had me feeling sorry for them all .. Ahhhh

            • Poison Ivy

              I know famous people – actors, directors – who don’t live like that at all. They choose to downplay the “celebrity” part of what they do, and manage to live without all the fuss. From my experience, anyway, these folks are usually happier people, though they too have to cowtow to the spotlight from time to time, which is always expensive.

            • Robert Eckert

              I read an article about Daniel Day-Lewis and his separation of his work from his life.

            • Eclipse-girl

              You got me thinking with that list. We know that most people are not paid within SO, but what is Davey is? Couldn’t he basically have unlimited pay and be slowly putting the coffers of IAS into his own name?

            • Robert Eckert

              {shocked gasp: that would be “private inurement” totally against what a tax-exempt organization is allowed to do!}

            • Poison Ivy

              JohnP would be able to give you the facts better but I recall reading that Dave is paid $200,000/yr salary by RTC (a non-profit.) So I guess he would be taxed on that, right? But all his expenses, where are they pulled from? RTC? I know it’s a violation of most non-profit law for the officers of a non profit to enrich themselves (meaning take first class airfare, perks etc) from the non-profit’s income. So are those expenses drawn from the IAS? Or from Golden Era Productions (is that a “for profit”?) I’m sure he has a large account in his own name in some offshore bank somewhere, but don’t know where he’s getting the money. Of course if you’re paying yourself $200,000 a year and all your expenses are paid by your company, it’s pretty easy to sock all that away and up your income with investments.

          • Poison Ivy

            True, Gerard! – wouldn’t it have been wiser from a $$ aspect to keep Manuela as a public, given her burgeoning career, and trying to support her to be able to bring in more money from the outside?

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              He has to fill that big tent with SO bodies, doesn`t he?

        • WildaBeast

          He’s getting ready to do a bunk? Fake his own death and disappear somewhere? He’s trying to buy his own private island? Or he really is a true believer and he isn’t going to disappear, he’s just lost his mind and is after money for money’s sake, not realizing he’s destroying the thing he has such faith in. Those are the two most likely in my mind, but I have no clue which.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            He’s a true believer…in living off the corpses of his customers. When has anyone heard him boast in one of his videos or events about the wins he had in auditing? I do think that with a personalty type such as his who has not just the wealth and power but the apparent immunity from consequences of his actions and behavior it ironically might be what does him in, personally whether on a physical breakdown, mental, or likely a bit of both. Now that consequences are at least Appearing on the horizon, he might just take a long vacation. Those guard dogs are a red flag signal.

            • WildaBeast

              Yeah, that is just weird beyond all human belief. What the hell religion needs guard dogs to protect it?! He’s starting to feel a wee bit less secure on that throne of his above the masses, I think. It’s such an awfully long way down for him to fall, and all his supports are eroding…
              I hope to God he doesn’t manage to get out of the country in time, though. I want his balls nailed to the wall. With a large audience to witness it.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              You’re preaching to a choir of hammers, Wilda.

            • WildaBeast

              LOL! Best mixed metaphor EVER!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              (my English teacher would be whacking her ruler right about now)

            • Robert Eckert

              The wheels are coming off the train wreck as the rats desert the sinking ship like the chickens they are!

            • WildaBeast

              I tried to picture that and it came out in my head as a cartoon of a train with wheels flying off it going down in the ocean as rats with wings and tailfeathers went bursting away from it…

            • Robert Eckert

              Those chickens are so yellow, you need to give them a white feather.

            • WildaBeast

              LOL! Oh God, in full makeup, too…isn’t that a sin of vanity?

            • Missionary Kid

              Catholic?

            • Poison Ivy

              Shit, the Pope may have a Pope Mobile, but he doesn’t have guard dogs! At least the Pope Mobile is glass!!

              EDIT – correction, the Vatican does have its own police force.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              The Pope crowd surf, he is a class act.
              As to paranoid Deaf Misanthrope, he will be the main best guarded feature of ‘The Grimmest Show on Earth’ coming to Florida soon.
              The extra security must be over the fact that cob already has a pretty good idea of what the final draw will be, so it is imperative that ground zero be super duper controlled.
              I cannot wait for the obits.

            • WildaBeast

              If you’re referring to Pope Francis, I’m with you on that, even as a non-Catholic. Forgive anyone I may offend, but Benedict gave me the screaming heebie-jeebies the whole time he was in charge. I may not agree with Francis about a whole bunch of things, but he seems like a genuinely loving, caring human being and it makes me happy to see him running the show.

            • Robert Eckert

              Benedict understood that showmanship on the world stage is a big part of the job now, like it or not, and had enough self-awareness to realize he wasn’t cut out for it.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              I’m with you, Benedict was not a people’s person, too much catholic starch.

            • WildaBeast

              The Vatican has the excuse of being a nation. Can’t be a country without a police force!

            • BananaSplits8

              *snort*

            • USA MRIID

              “I hope to God he doesn’t manage to get out of the country in time”

              If the insane loon is smart and planning ahead, he already has a fixed-wing aircraft always on standby near Gilman Hot Springs, maybe the runway at Hemet. With Tom Cruise on speed-dial, the psycho could catch a flight to parts unknown, land in Mexico with a big suitcase of cash to get himself and his fellow crooks past the Mexican airport authorities.

            • Poison Ivy

              JohnP – you still looking in to where he might be going?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              (I’m not peeking, or listening, honest JohnP)

            • John P.

              PI, I haven’t had a chance to do more work on the “Hidey Hole” project. I continue to think I’m close enough for now. It won’t be Mexico because Miscavige is a racist and a xenophobe. And suitcases of cash won’t be involved because he’s had years to salt away stuff in numbered accounts in various offshore banking havens.

            • Robert Eckert

              Carrying suitcases of cash is so 2nd millenium. “Well I don’t know, but I’ve been told, it’s hard to run with a weight of gold– on the other hand, I’ve heard it said, it’s just as hard with a weight of lead.”

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCh57Z0sqA8

            • Studious Judious

              I do love a good Dead reference…Thanks

              [ETA: One way or another, this darkness has got to give.]

          • USA MRIID

            Considering the psychopath’s mental difficulties, I expect when the indictments start coming down he’ll try to flee, get pinned up inside a hotel room somewhere by the FBI since he’s such an incompetent idiot, and before SWAT kicks open the door slaughter his fellow ringleaders hiding out in the hotel room with him before turning the gun on the cops. He seems *just* like that kind of insane psychopath.

            • WildaBeast

              “I’m sending you on ahead of me to join Ron on Target 2! This is a win for you!”

            • USA MRIID

              “Tell Ron I’ll be there shortly.” Yeah. He really is that insane.

        • ze moo

          Davey’s in it for the reinforcement of his ‘big beingness’. He slipped over line between sociopath and psychopath some time ago. If he’d wanted suitcases full of cash and his own island, he would have had them by now. That still may be his retirement plan, but he doesn’t seem to be planing any retirement at the moment. Davey needs the cash to quietly fund the private investigators and dirty tricks operators and to rent sheriffs and other law enforcement types.

          • WildaBeast

            Ugh, blech…you’re probably right. I guess it’s so intense (all the regging, etc., I mean) because he’s trying to pull moar monies out of fewer people in the midst of a recession. So it isn’t that he has new plans, he’s just trying to do the same old shitty things, only with an ever-shrinking support base. And he really might be crazy enough to think it can go on forever…it’s just so hard for me to wrap my head around that degree of insanity. (Repeat after yourself, Wilda: “It’s not just worse than you think, it’s worse than you can imagine…”)

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I think the “big being” might be shrinking in the shadows of all the lawsuits and media attention lately. Leah might be costing more than DM realizes yet.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              True. The focus has sharpened some in the past few years, and it is not event like ‘The Grimmest Show on Earth’ that will help with the image.

            • WildaBeast

              Especially not with mandatory ID badges and guard dogs. Does he not realize how awful the PR is from shit like that?

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            Some would say a typical ‘Napoleon complex’, where your compulsion has truly overtaken your reason. This state of affairs is beyond remission, only a total apocalypse will do.

          • Poison Ivy

            Again, our sense of identity is often held together by very delicate threads. Davey’s ENTIRE identity is held together by one thread and one alone – entirely based on being the Ecclesiastical Leader of the Fastest Growing Religion on the Planet. He’s not a husband or father. He’s not a college (or even high school graduate). He doesn’t really have any hobbies to speak of except those afforded to him by his position – Scuba diving off the Freewinds, motor cycle riding in Hemet, traveling with celebs related to CO$. He is Big Being #2 (after Hubbard, conveniently away on Target 2 at the moment.) Davey has been this Big Being since he was in his 20’s. That is ALL he is. He has developed no other threads and he will defend this one ’till the very end. If it snaps – he snaps, and pity the people around him at that moment.

            This is true of sociopaths and psychopaths as well as regular humans. I predict if Davey does get away with an escape, he’ll find a way to reconstitute his identity as a Big Shot wherever he goes. I don’t think he can exist without it. Again, remember. He didn’t “earn” this position, through education, study, etc. He TOOK it. He created it. His title is COB and COB is he and he is COB.

            • WildaBeast

              You make a very good point. All he is is wrapped up so entirely in being one thing…and the writing is going up on the wall at this very moment with regards to how long he can keep being that thing. I do hope those close to him manage to get the hell out before his denial collapses.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              The unstoppable train wreck.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Any third world cultures he might flee to might have a problem with him showing up with his “I’m In Town!” arrogance, throwing his money around. They might scramble to scoop up the bills, but only before they dethrone.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              The world is now a real small place, TV is everywhere, everywhere.

            • USA MRIID

              I wonder how well that insane psychopath will handle prison.

          • villagedianne

            I agree. He has all the money he can spend, and all the toys. He’s in it for ego reasons. He likes to be looked up to and admired.

      • Missionary Kid

        Miscabbage isn’t desperate for cash, but he wants the power it represents. It represents fealty to him, like the head of a much more honest organization would require, the mafia.

        • i-Betty

          Scientology: less honest than the Mafia.

          Another new tagline right there, hooray!

          • WildaBeast

            LOL!

          • Missionary Kid

            Believe me, there’s several. I didn’t think of putting it with the other $cientology/Mafia comparisons on my list of things said about $cientology, but I guess I’ll shorten it to, “Money paid to $cientology represents fealty to DM, like the head of a much more honest organization gets: the mafia.”

            The ones already on the list:
            The big difference between the church of scientology and the mafia is the mafia actually go to church on Sunday.
            Joining Scientolgy for the psychological wins is like joining the mafia for the sauce.
            Joining scientology for the status is like joining the mafia for the sauce.

            • Poison Ivy

              My favorites!

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              You are on fire kid! πŸ˜‰

            • Jack99

              Scientology – fastest imploding religion in the world.

            • Missionary Kid

              Love it. The only one to implode faster was the Heavan’s Gate cult.

      • Real Shellback

        You mean they come across as unreasoning, unreasonable arrogant jerks to the rest of the “wog” world? At least they are being honst about one thing!

    • tetloj

      Protest idea: stuffed toy dogs on leads

      • WildaBeast

        With big wads of Monopoly money hanging out of their mouths, and “Property of the {Church} of Scientology” signs around their necks?

        • i-Betty

          Heehehe!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          That would have to be “Property of the IAS” now. Everything is freakin’ IAS. I mean, the janitors have IAS sales quotas. You see more IAS signs and banners and promo than you do scientology anything anymore. I wanted to put that title on my guy’s neck badge, but not enough room.

          • WildaBeast

            Damn! I guess if you drew it up on cardboard and attached it to his collar, he’d slobber on or eat it, huh…

          • Poison Ivy

            If it’s truly the IAS, question for JohnP, is there any international money laundering going on there?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Or a motorcade of these might be just the ticket.

        http://i44.tinypic.com/nffx2f.jpg

        • WildaBeast

          Bawwwwhahahahahaha! I now have this mental image of 200 stuffed squirrels on remote-controlled motorcycles moving in unison toward the Sooper Powah gates on opening day…

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Needs a group name like “Hell’s Angels”. I’m blank…

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      What no barbed wire yet?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Maybe he’s waiting till all the sheep are inside the tent. That makes sense. You can’t lock the doors until “donation” quotas have been met if you’re in a tent, now can you?

        • WildaBeast

          If you try and slip out before quotas are met, an alarm in your ID badge goes off and starts shrieking at you that you’re not KSW, and out-ethics, etc. etc., until you go back in the tent just to shut it up. Also if you try to remove the ID badge, it gives you a medium-strength electric shock.
          I am pulling this out of my ass, but it wouldn’t surprise me πŸ™

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It is not all a stretch anymore.

          • Missionary Kid

            Damn! You’re giving the angry homunculus ideas. Shhhhhh!

            • WildaBeast

              *hand over mouth* *puppy eyes*

        • Phil McKraken

          I fear worse about that damn tent. Is that DM’s Jonestown tent? Are the guard dogs meant to keep ye of shaky faith inside?

          • Poison Ivy

            I don’t think he’s close to there yet, and I don’t think he’d do such a thing in such a public way. I believe he’s still delusional enough to think he can win this and destroy his enemies. (That’s how he keeps slipping up so bad.)

          • USA MRIID

            Bet you the insane fuck didn’t even think about fire safety.

          • villagedianne

            DM is afraid of being served with a subpoena.

        • grundoon

          You can leave early, but you’ll have to get past the dogs.

      • USA MRIID

        What’s also amusing is that the insane psychopath did not hold his “event” inside of his new building, presumably so that the remaining rubes, marks, and suckers don’t get to see how the building is far from ready to open and won’t be able to see that their insane ruler can possibly open to get enough rubes to pay for the electric power to light the place. Instead the psychopath needed to get someone to hand over enough money to rent a tent outside.

    • USA MRIID

      The violently insane Scientology crooks were dressing up as Clearwater police at one point, even wearing guns. These people are insane, violent, deadly cult loons.

  • Observer

    For longtime Narconon watchers, this day was all too predictable.

    Predictable but oh, so sweet. And a welcome relief from the lingering sadness over the Manuela Oliveira story.

    Clark Carr, some advice: Blow. Now. Revive your conscience. Join Luke and Eric. Tell what you know; make amends as far as you can. .Even if you end up with some jail time, you’ll still be better off than you will in the hands of the furious homunculus.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Clark has played in the Delusion Derby far too long to act sensible now. I mean, the man still thinks he’s a comedian.

      • Observer

        Ouch! *snickersnort*

      • Poison Ivy

        Probably the only positive reinforcement he gets for his ‘comedic talents’ is through Scientology. The big wide world wouldn’t recognize him for that; that would be a powerful incentive to stay in. Remember, our identities are often held together by very delicate threads.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hah…my mind just did a peculiar Leap to an old folksy song “Golden Threads and Silver Needles” but with the odder imagery of Chill E.B. rapping to the white hairs at Flag. Even though it was a still, not a vid, I could Feel the cringing in that room. But you just know they clapped Enthusiastically at the end! The only artists I knew who were content with that (faux admiration) weren’t true artists, just wannabe’s. The shlock that passes for a semblance of art in scientology is nails on the blackboard painful.

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            About videos, did you notice in today`s contribution by K – A.G.P. – J. S. that in the old promo at the end you can recognize a few conspicuous faces.

            • Aslansown

              Yep — DM singing “We Stand Tall” – doesn’t get much better than that!

    • John P.

      “Furious Homunculus.” Coffee just went everywhere, and the interns are back at Harvard and the supermodels are still asleep, so there is absolutely nobody to clean it up. Sigh…

      • tetloj

        I think she should have to shoop a furious homunculus as penance…with appropriate coffee consumption warnings of course.

      • Robert Eckert

        How’s things? I hope your relative is improving?

        • John P.

          Thank you for asking. Family health is improving nicely. I’ve been too busy to spend much time here the last week or so, but hope that will change over the next week or two. Overlordship of the world economy at Global Capitalism HQ has placed many unwelcome demands on my blog commenting schedule recently… That and the “Good Riddance Goodbye, Interns!” party at the ol’ waterfront estate over the long weekend.

          • monkeyknickers

            Oh no!! I didn’t catch this . . . are you okay??

            • Missionary Kid

              He’s O.K. It’s a relative that had some health problems.

          • Robert Eckert

            Your financial expertise has been missed on days like this when we wonder “OK, this sounds very expensive, but on the “order of magnitude” of the whole cult, just how damaging is it really?”

            A buddy of mine is in the final stages of making a small film for the festival circuit about worker bees in Global Capitalism HQ. I’ll link it for you when it’s up.

            • John P.

              I’d love to see your friend’s film when it’s done. Mistreatment of the interns is acceptable because they all fantasize about taking our jobs someday. But mistreating the worker bees and the rest of the support staff is not OK at Global Capitalism HQ and we can get in trouble for yelling at secretaries, messengers, etc. Appropriately so. It does remain a problem on the rest of the Street, however.

            • Robert Eckert

              Jim’s film is about quants, who are punished more by their own nerdliness, although they also get abused by the corporates.

            • John P.

              quants, who are punished more by their own nerdliness,

              Yes, indeed. 26-year old quants making $500,000 per year and getting exactly zero supermodels. And zero regular models. That is the epitome of getting punished by one’s own nerdiness. But anybody who gets a slice of a bonus pool is fair game for abuse. People on straight salary or hourly are off limits.

            • monkeyknickers

              I read this and literally had no idea what you were talking about. πŸ™‚ Isn’t it great being a dumb musician? πŸ™‚

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        We will send you a delegation of Sea Org members. They will clean up the mess and then paint your home. All we ask in return is for you to stay off the internet and stop posting here.

    • Missionary Kid

      “Furious Homunculus” made my list of DM nicknames. He inspires such invective. 165 is the number now.

      • WildaBeast

        Not only such invective, but such creative invective! And I frankly consider it a sign of how classy and intelligent Bunkerites are, that so few of your list names involve four-letter words πŸ™‚

        • Missionary Kid

          And even the obscenities are clever.

        • monkeyknickers

          It’s good to have somebody smart do the heavy lifting.

          All I’ve come up is . . . . . Dick. Sometimes Total Dick – when I’m feeling brainy.

          πŸ™‚

          • WildaBeast

            Well, there’s Tiny Dick, too…but I think someone already came up with that one. πŸ™‚

        • Anon!

          Or four-letter words that are not politically correct. πŸ™‚

      • tetloj

        MK …yesterday’s list for COS nicknames….did you have Lyingtology. I also love Jensting’s relentless “the criminal organisation known as the church of $cientology” (and he’s not even being paid a penny a word)

        • Missionary Kid

          Yesterday’s list was more of a list of short answers to the sign on a bus, “What is Scientology?” I was looking for short and sweet answers, like would go on an easily readable bumper sticker.

          It’s funny, but I’d seen “the criminal organization…” often, but I couldn’t quite put it on the list of nicknames. I’m going to put it on my list of things said about $cientology.

          • Graham

            Someone on this thread said that some NarCONon franchises are changing their names to avoid detection as fronts for $camatology. MK: as King of Lists might you consider compiling a list of NarCONon pseudonyms? I know if a NarCONon tried setting up where I live I’d be alerted immediately, but if they were to set up under a pseudonym it probably wouldn’t ring alarm bells. A list of “NarCONon, also known as…” might be a really useful resource.

            • Poison Ivy

              Yes, I think they have been doing this for some time now.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist
            • Graham

              Thanks for that HoleDNE. This stuff gets everywhere, doesn’t it. A bit like dog-shit on the shoe.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. The best way to do this is to attach the list to something that Disqis puts at the top. I’ll try to do it today.

        • Missionary Kid

          Lyintology, surprisingly, wasn’t on my list of $cientology nicknames. I added it.

          • Poison Ivy

            Oh my, of course it should be!

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Hey just thought of one for your “what is scientology?” list: The Rolls Royce of Fraud

            • Missionary Kid

              Bingo. I love it.

      • Nevermore

        Homunculus Horribilis sounds nice and academic, if now ecclesiastical!

        • Missionary Kid

          I’ll add it.

        • WildaBeast

          Oooh, very nice! It’s a whole new species…of one.

      • USA MRIID

        The fringes of the Intertubes are such meanies!

        • Missionary Kid

          In this case, deservedly so.

    • USA MRIID

      Carr is too fucking stupid to know that the felony indictments are coming down. That insane fuck will go down in a hail of felony indictments. Count on it.

      • Observer

        I wouldn’t be surprised.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Furious homuculus? I had to look that word up. That’s a great name for Dee Midget. Thanks!

  • ThetaBara

    You don’t mess with insurance companies! That and the credit fraud are going to bring down this house of cards. And not a moment too soon.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    Gotta love Love.

    • Miss Tia

      Icon love!!! DRINK! FECK! ARSE! GIRLS!!

      • tetloj

        There’s an ecclesiastical figure I can enjoy

    • Sid_Sn

      Love, Love, Love…
      Love is all you need.

  • NL Girl

    I’m new to this site and LOVE the info & everything I’m learning. From a little province in Eastern Canada, where being exposed to details such as these, in “real life”, are quite foreign.
    I return daily, to read & read & read – and often leave shell shocked that this stuff is actually going on – and even more dumbfounded that so many people are still falling for Scientology.
    Thank you for this fascinating blog!

    • i-Betty

      Welcome NL Girl, it’s lovely to meet you πŸ™‚

      • Missionary Kid

        One is too many.

        • Poison Ivy

          As Manuela’s story proves, you are absolutely right. One life sucked into the cult is a ripple that tears out the hearts of so many other lives.

      • NL Girl

        Thank you everyone!

        I don’t have a Liberal Arts degree or anything fancy…I’m a Chartered Accountant who became interested when I started reading about how Leah Remini issued a missing persons report for David Miscavige’s wife (he sounds like a real treat).

        I fell upon this site, and I have to admit I was shocked at how naiive I was to how this “religion” worked. Not to mention its absurd and ridiculous practices. It’s fascinating (for all the wrong reasons), and I visit religiously.

        One more thing – can you all see the reply I received regarding how this site had a SP rating of 100 and I was strongly advised to leave? Also stated I should visit an official website of RTC.
        I will see if I can re-post.
        Thks again πŸ™‚

        • stanrogers

          You are new, aren’t you? Our OTVIIIisGrrr8! is a parody voice; if you read between the lines, the absurdity is obvious (but not often far from what the real CoS spokesbuffoons have to say). Consider yourself screeched in..

          • i-Betty

            Spokesbuffoons is wonderful!

        • stanrogers

          (Previous post seems to have disappeared, so my apologies if this is a duplicate.)

          You are new here, aren’t you? Our OTVIIIisGrrr8! is a parody voice (though, sadly, not far off of the official CoS spokesbuffoons). Consider yourself screeched in.

        • GlibWog

          Yea as Stan Says.. OTVIIIis Grrr8 … Just has fun with us. He is the ” Voice ” of Scientology ( teasing)

          We all love him here. He says things that are so Ludicrous, but as stan says again..

          It is actually words that the Top would say.. so ridiculous..

        • i-Betty

          You’ll grow to love OTVIIIisGrrr8! as much as we do, NL Girl. He’s blinkin’ hilarious, with his dry, snarky wit. He has us rolling in the aisles, although we try to pretend – in the manner of panto – that he’s The Baddy πŸ˜€

    • Schmubbard

      All of Scientology is a fascinating internet rabbit hole, once you go down it you end up in very very odd places. For me, as a never-in who’s been thoroughly inoculated against the Hubbardist cult, the major fascination is watching a “religion” die in real time from a thousand cuts, some of which are delivered by our excellent host on this website.

      • Miss Tia

        TOTAL rabbit hole!! I end up reading articles linked within articles and then go to other sites and then realize hours have passed!!!

        • tetloj

          I’ve commented here before that some days at the Bunker are better than a liberal arts degree.

          • Miss Tia

            I have a liberal arts degree! πŸ™‚ But I agree!!

            • tetloj

              And I’m not knocking liberal arts degrees. That’s how high the bar is set.

          • Poison Ivy

            Good one, Tetloj!

        • WildaBeast

          Hell, just the daily comments here are a rabbit hole! I can end up spending an entire day’s worth of free time just at the Bunker.

        • Jerseygram

          So do I.

    • tetloj

      I’m a boondocks girls myself NL . These crazy city folks, eh?

      • Missionary Kid

        I posit that $cientology doesn’t do well outside of cities where they’re capable of anonymity, unless it’s a compound that isolates itself.

        • tetloj

          Very hard to disconnect families in a small town…it can effect the whole social fabric. Where I live changing football clubs stays with people for a generation.

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      A big hello and welcome from a fellow Canuck πŸ˜‰

      • no_srsly

        ya what she said! πŸ™‚

      • And I’m Cute, Too

        Ditto!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Welcome. It is fascinating. Ask questions if you get confused. $cientologese is very lingo oriented. It takes hours to decipher some documents.

      I would claim not too many people are falling for $cientology. you have to remember that $cientology lies.

    • WildaBeast

      Hi, and welcome! We Canadians are becoming more and more well-represented here, yay!

      • i-Betty

        That can only be a good thing πŸ™‚

      • Robert Eckert

        Don’t you mean “We Canadians are becoming more and more well-represented here, ey?”

        • WildaBeast

          LOL yes of course. What the hell is wrong with me this morning, eh?

      • Exterrier

        Well, take good care of the courageous Gerry Armstrong, who is in legal exile up there. He is a hero.

    • Poison Ivy

      Welcome NL Girl. You should be proud of how Canada is waking up and kicking CO$’s ass…many thanks to David Love and his crusade for turning on the lights up there!

    • GlibWog

      Oh NL Girl.. Welcome, Welcome.. We love lurkers who join. Come on in .. The water is warm!

    • USA MRIID

      Also check out the “NarCONon IS Scientology” web site http://www.crackpots.us/
      The web site was down for a long time, but with the latest criminal indictments and civil lawsuits and homicides, the web site was put back up.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      NL Girl, we in the Church of Scientology give this criminal website a rating on the SP scale of 100, where 100 is the most suppressive number possible. This is a very “Bad Indicator” or “BI” and indicates that you should stop coming here and stop reading this blog lest your mind be degraded and poisoned.

      May we in RTC please invite you visit a Church of Scientology websites instead? With SP ratings of 0, Church sites are non-enturblative oases of theta on an otherwise harsh and vicious wog internet full of con artists, bipolar bloggers, vicious porn peddlers, and nancy boys looking for hook ups.

      Then again, we invite you to attend an official Church event where you can see for yourself who we are and what we do.

      Next week, for example, Scientologist and Operating Thetan Jenna Elfman will travel to Georgia to publicly condemn the baby-raping Psychs at Western World Insurance.

      Jenna will make it very clear that Western World Insurance is doomed to die alone and in the dark due to its legal attacks upon the Church of Scientology, the most ethical group on the planet.

      http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/04-Church-of-Scientology-Nashville-Jenna-Elfman_zpsf7c94970.jpg

      • GlibWog

        8… Good Lord Our newest member NL took you seriously.. Now you just apologize immediatelly or I’m telling you know who.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          We in RTC inject a voice of sanity into a blog teetering on the edge of madness. If it wasn’t for peerless our contributions this blog would be worse than it already is.

          • GlibWog

            Wait.. Elfman is the Best you Got representing sanity.. ?

            bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahhahahhaa.. I just Pee Peed my diaper

      • Observer

        I’m sorry, but that outfit isn’t what I would call theta. And her hair looks like a physical manifestation of enturbulation.

        • i-Betty

          Hehe!

        • Exterrier

          Mott the Hoople had better hair than that.

  • pronoia

    Oh the burdens of Eclesiastcal leadership. How on earth is a man in COB’s position surrounded by such vast moral corruption going to bring his flock and his religious institutions back from the brink? Will he once again look to Rome for inspiration?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Italy, where they were raided a few years back? That must have cost Miscavige a few barrels of single malt to cloak in silence.

    • Schmubbard

      Well the Emperor Caligula was going to make his horse Incinatus a consul of Rome, so perhaps a promotion to “Loyal Officer” is on the way for Karen Pouw?

      • Kim O’Brien

        they already salute the dog ..hell ..why not ?

      • Robert Eckert

        They already have half a horse as their Chairman of the Board.

      • USA MRIID

        Caligula was saner than David Miscaviage is.

    • May_West

      Exactly. That is why I refer to Supah Powah Building as The Cobiseum.

      • Observer

        Hahahaha, Cobiseum! Love it!

      • tetloj

        fricking lol!

      • WildaBeast

        Haaahahahahahaha! I’m going to remember that one!

      • Missionary Kid

        I have it on the list as COBiseum.

    • Miss Tia

      Should we send COB a fiddle??

  • i-Betty

    “Is it any wonder that insurance companies are thinking twice about defending a business that can’t tell a single straight fact about itself?”

    No, and I would hope that every Insurer who has sold Narconon a policy of any kind over the last decade would now look to open full investigations. This criminal organisation is toxic to the core and they all follow the same business model.

    • Observer

      I’m hoping that this somehow leads to an investigation of Scientology itself.

      • Missionary Kid

        I hope so too, but it’s unlikely.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Scientology is All about Money. It will die as fast as the cash cows head out for pasture.

        • Once_Born

          Dead right. The best (possibly the only) way to kill the CofS is to bleed it dry of money.

    • Once_Born

      Also, all the lies and the ongoing prosecutions are going to make it near-impossible for new Narconon facilities to obtain insurance – unless they lie to do so, in which case they lay themselves open to even more serious liability.

      This is probably the rationale behind the guy who was claiming to provide therapy drawn from, “Native American Culture.” He can’t get insurance if he identifies himself as Narconon, so he pretends to be something else. the fact that this deception is so poor is very encouraging.

      • i-Betty

        That’s a really good point. I bet there’s a blacklist of dodgy organisations and corporate entities which is held by all the large insurers, and if Narconon weren’t on it before they certainly will be now.

        • WildaBeast

          What a lovely thought, i-Betty. Even more lovely because I am willing to bet the tax money I’m still waiting to receive that you’re right.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          and DM’s feeble attempt to hide Narconon by slapping a different name over the door is Not going to fool Insurance investigators. Their investigators don’t wear looney tshirts or cameras strapped to their foreheads.

    • aquaclara

      I hope so, too, I-Betty. Every insurance company has to be looking at this. They have the ability to drop coverage at their discretion, and it would save them millions in potential legal bills that have to be incurred before a trial. It’s good that they are likely to win in court whenever there were lies in the applications or fraud, and therefore, would eventually see those dollars back. But I have to think that insurers like to avoid the risk in the first place.
      Wish there was a way to see who the insurers are for every Narconon and related business.

  • Krew13

    A new day, new troubles for the Church of Scamatology. Sciloons leaving all the time, lawsuits coming out of their assholes, high profile departures, courts ruling against them. Good times!! Or, as Top Gun put it, ‘These are the times, people. These are the times when you’ll look back and say “Man, it was fun seeing the COS burn to the fucking ground!”‘

    • USA MRIID

      “Because you know, only a Scientologist can truly help the Scientology crime syndicate burn to the ground” — Tom Cruise.

  • Krew13

    Ariel Castro dead and more troubles for the Sciloons. A good news day.

    • 1subgenius

      All’s well that ends well.

    • WildaBeast

      Forgive my vindictiveness, but Ariel Castro being dead isn’t good news to me. I wanted him dead, yes, but he didn’t suffer NEARLY enough beforehand. I wanted him “accidentally” placed in General Population for a month or so.

      • Krew13

        I agree but that could never have happened. He was facing solitary confinement for the rest of his days and he obviously couldn’t hack it.

        • WildaBeast

          I know. It’s hard to do when it’s such a high-profile case. But goddammit, why didn’t they have him on suicide watch?!

          It actually did happen to a friend of mine once though. Her father-in-law sexually abused her kids, and she had him arrested when she found out about it. The sergeant at the station was an Irish Catholic immigrant (as was she), and when she expressed her concern that he was going to get off scot-free due to his age and ill-health, he just smiled. Next day, she heard a honk outside her window, looked out, and there was a squad car, driven by the sergeant, with her diddler father-in-law in the back seat; he had black eyes, a swollen face, etc. Turned out there had been a paperwork “slip-up” and he’d been placed in the holding tank at the station overnight, and the constables on duty had told every other guy in there what HE was there for.

          I was told that story two years ago and every time I think of it to this day I smile.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I am not one for violence. I think living well is usually they best revenge. But I get really POed when people hurt children.

            • WildaBeast

              Exactly. I can get, and have gotten, past being beat up, ripped off, robbed, etc. But hurting kids, or committing rape…I lose my shit. And I can’t think any worse of myself for it.

      • Robert Eckert

        He is the kind of person who makes me understand the need some people feel to believe in eternal hellfire.

      • Bob

        Suffering at what cost to us the tax payers. He is gone now so his victims will not have to be reminded of his presence. Criminals continue too steal from the public after they are convicted unless they make restitution. In this case Castro did the right thing. The greatest punishment is to be ignored or to be deemed a non-entity. He is gone. So that his victims can really start to heal.
        And he will get no more attention. He does not deserve it.

        • WildaBeast

          I disagree. I’ve been raped multiple times by various people. Having them gone, out of my life so thoroughly that I could never track them down, knowing they might well be dead, hasn’t done a damn thing to help me heal. I’m just left with a nauseating degree of rage that is utterly helpless. I refuse to forgive those who don’t deserve forgiveness, and the only thing that leaves me with is the Biblical eye for an eye. The only thing I’ve ever been able to think of that might have helped is to make the people who raped me feel as worthless, helpless, frightened, hurt and violated as I felt, because there’s no way to understand the awfulness of what that does to a person without feeling it yourself. It’s the ONLY way to make them understand, which is the only way to make them feel bad about it, which is the only way they can become worthy of forgiveness, which is the only way they can be truly forgiven. If you could have seen the smug, deliberately uncomprehending smirk on the face of my first rapist when I confronted him about it, you might see what I mean. The majority of rape “victims” (fuck I hate that term) I know feel the same way. Nobody can give you back what you lose in a situation like that – and their (edit: Castro’s victims’) situation was INFINITELY worse than anything I went through. You accept the fact that you’re forever altered and you keep moving, but that isn’t the same as healing. When someone reaches inside you and changes you, then disappears forever with no hope of returning, you’re left with questions that can never be answered, loose ends that can never be tied up, anger that can never have a proper outlet and thus must be suppressed if you want to remain a good person.
          As for the taxpayers, they’re wasting a lot more money keeping pot dealers in jail than they ever would have spent on Ariel Castro. Unless you advocate releasing anyone who’s in jail for petty drug charges, please, please don’t talk to me about saving the taxpayers’ money. I beg you.

          • aquaclara

            Reading this, WildaBeast, is so hard. You should NEVER have had to experience this. No one can fix it, or make it right, or punish the offender enough. I wish there were a better word than victim. The Mayor today did right by reminding people to remember that this is about the girls. With all my heart, I hope you and they have a chance to heal, and to find peace and safety again.
            For me, knowing with absolute certainty that the rapists will spend their eternity in a fire pit of hell does help. I understand that for others, this doesn’t work. It still doesn’t feel like enough.
            Wishing you soft pillows for many peaceful dreams, sweet cookies and tea to make you smile, and lots and lots of hugs so you know we care.

            • WildaBeast

              Thank you both, aqua and q-bird. I try not to think about it much, I just count myself lucky to be in a really wonderful relationship with someone who was unbelievably kind and patient and loving and understanding when all this was more recent and I was more of a mess about it. But reading these posts made me sniffly (in a good way) and I thank you both for them. *hugs*

            • Robert Eckert

              I am glad to hear that you have found love in your life. So many are robbed of their sense of trust and do not find someone with the patience to restore it to them.

          • q-bird

            girl friend – you are not alone.

          • Bob

            I am very sorry to hear that you have had that be such a terrible part of your life. And I consider rapist one of the lowest most despicable forms of life on the planet. And I can only imagine how it feels to look at your attacker and he smiles when he is confronted.
            My view is that any energy or time wasted on this form of life only perpetuates negative energy and allows abject ugliness to continue to exist. I do not want to support that. Much better to put energy into the living than the walking dead.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            So sorry you experienced this. Rape is evil. I have known many women who had been raped and it always changes them, no matter what healing they do. I’ve always tried to be very kind to them and understanding and help them heal. I hope your healing is ongoing.

            For myself, though I cannot know what you went through, your feelings of rage are very similar to my own rage at what scientology did to me. I was in therapy for quite a while and this was one of the major things I had to deal with. The blackest of black thoughts and the ways I wanted to get back at them make them feel the same pain and hopelessness I did.

            I only went to a psychiatrist when I had nothing else left. My scientology mind set, even a few years after leaving, was still so strong that I had to steel myself to go. Only the black hopelessness and impending homelessness I felt made it possible. I had no other options. And that was just an evaluation for medicaid. It wasn’t even treatment.

            Part of the reason I talk about, in detail, what happened to me is that it is my therapy for my self, and a sort of tough kindness to others so they do not fall into the same misery.

            I wish you very much continued healing and good relationships. Stay strong.

            • WildaBeast

              I can see exactly why you would have the same kind of anger that I do. I think that, if anything, Scientology had a more pervasive and poisonous effect on your life than my experiences had on mine. I’m glad that you’ve found a way to help yourself come to terms with and live with & beyond it. Talking helps. And not being afraid to talk about it, whatever ‘it’ is, is a big step toward acceptance.
              I wish the best for you. Joy and self-knowledge and self-love. Keep talking; people are listening.

          • Eclipse-girl

            (((HUGS)))

    • Imelda Marcos

      Okay, that’s horrible news. He apparently died while still thinking that he and his victims had good times together, as he squeaked out during his sentencing hearing. I wanted him to live years and come to the realization that he was a torturer who had no right to do what he did.

      • Robert Eckert

        He apparently did come to the realization that living in confinement is not very bearable.

      • kemist

        He should have spent at least the same time confined in a place against his will as what he imposed on his victims. It’s a bit ironic that he downplayed what did to them when he couldn’t face even the most minute fraction of it himself. What an hypocritical coward.

  • WhereIsSHE

    I have represented insurance carriers in Declaratory Judgment Actions “commonly referred to as a “Dec action”), e.g.. lawsuits filed by insurance carriers against their insureds (and others, as the case may require, and as we see here) to get a court to rule that the insured is not “covered” by the policy for a myriad of reasons (typically because the alleged “loss” is not “covered” by the policy, or–as we see here– because the insured either a)made material misrepresentations when it applied for the insurance coverage and/or b) because the insured failed to provide timely notice and/or failed to cooperate with the carrier, thereby relieving the carrier of it’s “duty to defend”).

    Any liabiliy insurance policy (one which requires the insurer to defend claims filed against the insured) contains language which REQUIRES the insured to do certain minimal things, and that entails a) providing prompt NOTICE of said claims against the insured to the insurer, and more importantly in this case, b) to COOPERATE with the insurer in the defense of said claims.

    (*Take note if you ever get sued and you believe you have coverage under an existing policy: provide PROMPT NOTICE and COOPERATE.)

    Never have I seen a case where the court in the underlying action STRUCK THE INSURED’S ANSWER (in this case for a series of blatant discovery obligation violations).
    This is a slam dunk winner for Western World.

    Moreover, all insurance policies may be “void ab initio” (i.e. invalidated from the start, so as to make it as though the policy never even existed) if the insured makes MATERIAL MISREPRESENTATIONS on the policy application.

    (*Do not hide material information when applying for insurance. MATERIAL is the key word, and many cases hinge on whether or not the misinformation -or failure to provide information– is “material”.)

    Here, again, we see another slam dunk winner for Western World.

    Oh. And it is about time that Naconon/the cult is facing CIVIL RICO CHARGES.

    *****
    Love to David Love for all of his hard work. It is paying off a thousand fold.
    The man is LITERALLY saving lives.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I love the sound of “slam dunk”. And yes, David Love and a host of other caring individuals and the networks they have created are saving untold lives. Slam dunk the damn skunks.

    • Observer

      Will the Desmonds’ settlement be affected since they’re named in the suit, or does it just mean that NarCONon has to reimburse the insurance co for that amount on top of everything else?

      • WildaBeast

        It sounds as though, in the Desmonds’ case, the payout has already been made by Western World; W.W. is now suing to get their money back from Narconon, but the Desmonds are named so that they can’t try and get anything else from W.W. In the other case, the payout has yet to be made, and I hope to high heaven that the families are able to get money from someone, ANYONE – if the insurance company has to pay out, they have far better resources to try and get money out of Narconon than the families do.

        • Poison Ivy

          It will be interesting if Narconon says they can’t pay because of lack of funds…would this then trigger a hunt down the money trail to the top of the heap (COB)?

          • WildaBeast

            I don’t know. I don’t understand enough about how American civil law works. But I sure hope so.

          • Robert Eckert

            Just the possibility of that should be enough to induce David Miscavige to pay out and avoid any such questions. Western World need only talk about deposing him.

    • i-Betty

      Amazing information, WhereIsSHE. Thank you for the explanation. It all sounds very positive. I, too, am a little worried for the Desmonds. If Western World win their case, as seems likely, will the Desmond family have to fight CoS directly for their compensation award?

      Would I be right in thinking that the family haven’t already received their money if Western World have made a point of naming them as Defendants? How long does it usually take for the money to come through in these cases (if all goes smoothly)?

      • tetloj

        And go through the drama of proving the corporate structure (at least there is plenty of support from Mr “Coolhand’ Luke and Mr ’10orios’ Eric).

        • Eclipse-girl

          Let us hope that WW can do exactly that. Maybe there will be some putative judgements against Narconon for their lies and misrepresentations. Let us hope the attorneys will be able to show the corporate structure on Co$ and IAS will have to pay the claims.

        • ze moo

          The NarCONon assets in Georgia are much easier to get at. I suspect WW will be owning a closed rehab. The real estate should be able to pay them back.

      • May_West

        IIRC, I read somewhere that the insurance company (Western) forked out a million dollars to the Desmonds. Not 100% sure about this.

        • Robert Eckert

          If this is so, Western will seek a declaratory judgment that Narconon and not Western should have made that payment, and recover the money from Narconon (if the Scilons haven’t hidden it). I cannot imagine a court ordering plaintiffs to pay back a judgment they were fully entitled to receive.

          • WhereIsSHE

            Neither can I. It appears that Western World was well aware it was going to contest coverage and duty to defend at the time the settlement was entered into by the parties.
            Also see my comments above (or below, depending on how you are scrolling) regarding the dec action paragraphs requesting the court to require NIAC responsible for coverage and duty to defend, fees, costs, etc. (which NIAC will certainly not accept, but it seems to me an indication of how Western World is evaluating the situation).

          • joan nieman

            in response, Robert Eckert, I believe your theory is correct. I couldn’t imagine the plaintiffs having to reimburse what was awarded in the courts. It would be Scientology that would be responsible to deal with their insurance company.

    • Interested

      This is fantastic information. Again not wanting to sound too dumb and far too taken up by the Bunker to read pages of legal info on the web, what is civil RICO charges please. TY

      • Robert Eckert

        The Rackeeteering Investigations and Corrupt Organizations act not only provides “enhanced” criminal charges against those involved in large-scale conspiracies, but also provide private plaintiffs who were victims of large-scale organized fraud with “treble damages” (a times-three multiplier) if certain factual elements are proven.

        • Poison Ivy

          RICO is the mortal enemy of the Mafia, for example. And Scientology is nothing except a Mafia organization that doesn’t murder (directly, as far as we know, though it does kill indirectly!) and has a religious cloaking. Oh, and the Mafia has far better food!
          As Missionary Kid says, “Joining Scientology for the wins is like joining the Mafia for the sauce.”

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            Totally and I would go further to say they are in so many ways worse than the Cosa Nostra. Traditionally the mob takes care of its soldiers and their families, they share the $$$, So far I have yet to see an example of Co$ behaviors that have truly helped anybody. Correct me if I am wrong, please do! I am here to learn all I can.

            • WildaBeast

              True. The Mafia, at least, has the reputation of taking care of its’ own…as long as you stay loyal. Scientology doesn’t even try to achieve that level of responsibility for its’ members.

        • Jgg2012

          RICO also lets you go back 10 years. So, ten years of damages, trebled, could bankrupt this organization.

          • Poison Ivy

            Oh wow. Feds, where are you? Are you listening?
            Damn Crickets. Again.

        • Missionary Kid

          Treble damages would give the insurance companies even more incentive to connect the dots and go up {the bridge} after the pint sized pontiff.

          • Robert Eckert

            That incentive is precisely the intention. The Justice Department cannot always devote enough time or resources to one of these complex mega-conspiracy cases (as JohnP has explained to us various times when people express impatience) so Congress wanted to encourage the private sector to share some of the investigatory work.

            • Missionary Kid

              I wasn’t aware of how the civil part of RICO worked. It’ll take 5 years, I’m guessing, before a case against the teeny little homunculus gets resolved, if he doesn’t settle first. I’m hoping it’s much sooner.

        • WildaBeast

          Treble damages…that would be beautiful to see happen and go out to the families and exes.

    • Poison Ivy

      Thanks for this info, WIS!

    • Missionary Kid

      THIS LIST IS NOT FOR JOKING AND DEGRADING
      If you know of a Narc-a-Con facility, whether it’s changed it’s name or not, please leave a comment here.

      If you know what the old name was, please list it as, “Narconon of Rat’s Ass, Idaho, now known as Soberville, Rat’s Ass Idaho.” Include the location so it lessens the chance of confusing them. Later in the day, I’ll compile them. If there’s a list somewhere else, please let me know. Thanks.

      • scnethics

        You may be able to get all of them here: http://www.narconon.org/narconon-centers/ but it will be interesting to see whether all of them are listed, or if some are more cloaked than that.

        • Missionary Kid

          Thanks. I’ll try that.

    • USA MRIID

      Is it too much to ask for to hope that public buggering of David Miscaviage follows?

    • GlibWog

      Where is she.. Wow.. You know that is why I love the Bunker. So many have such specific knowledge and experience that helps explain certain aspects regarding law suits ( and other issues) that some of us just don’t know.

      We are like a big puzzle and each of us bring our own piece. I just love it.. Such a Wealth of knowledge that you just can’t find anywhere else.

  • Nevermore

    {And here I thought $ciloonery had absolutely nothing to do with Narconon.}

  • Missionary Kid

    At this point, it looks like expansion has been checked and the larger NarCONon facilities are in trouble, but notice that others are changing their name and trying to distance themselves from $cientology, at least publicly.

    There’s still the Ojai facility, much more isolated, and all of the other ones that are now trying to be run under the radar. They are being operated as residential facilities that have 6 beds or less, which get much less scrutiny. Edit: the Ojai facility isn’t open yet.

    I believe that the sites that are being sued by the insurers will be out of business soon, as bankrupt corporations. If the Insurance companies have their way, unfortunately, the families that have won settlements against the NarCONon facilities will have to pay back the money they’ve won if the insurers paid for the settlements instead of NarCONon.

    Since NarCONon facilities send their profits out of the NarCONon corporations in the form of {licensing fees}, the only assets left for the families will be the facilities themselves. Am I wrong?

    • scnethics

      You may be right, and I’m no attorney, but then again, if NarCONon plays the bankrupt card, this leaves the plaintiff no choice but to pursue the church itself. This leads to all sorts of discovery aimed at proving the relationship (especially the money trail) between Narconon and The Church of Scientology. I don’t think the church wants to have that battle in court, but they may have no choice. I’m beginning to think Davey’s war chest is getting light.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Death by a million judgements ?

        • USA MRIID

          Should only take 5, 10 judgements against the Scientology crooks to put a stop to their NarCONon frauds world wide.

      • Missionary Kid

        It will be a tough, expensive battle on both sides.

      • ze moo

        The dwarfenfΓΌhrer has a lot of cash lying around and he doesn’t mind spending it on ending lawsuits that end discovery of the links between all CO$ entities. With all the ex’s around proving links and who really manages whom is not impossible.

        • RMycroft

          There appears to be two classes on money in Scientology: The supposed billion+ $ in reserves that gets buried and never tapped, and the flowing money that goes into the IAS and is used for fights like this. I think they’re short of the flowing kind of money right now.

          • ze moo

            With a decided lack of new meat, the cash flow appears to be a trickle of what it was once upon a time. Are the day to day bills being paid by NarCONon and WISE? I can’t see Applied Scholastics paying for much of anything, that end of con appears to be a loss leader for the ‘social betterment’ lie that keeps some clams in the scam. You can only make so much off of the ‘the way to happiness’ booklet scam. The CCHR is self funding but produces no real cash flow either.

            I have to wonder if the scam is dipping into the reserves for payments to the Desmonds and other legal settlements. The day to day operations of the Idle mOrgs appear to be self sustaining. But most of that money goes directly to the central church, not to the local mOrg. When you pay your staff 50 bucks a week (at most) your overhead is electricity and water bills and payments to the central operation for all the licensed ‘tech’.

            The only certain thing I can see is that CO$ gets nothing but bad publicity these days. You just can’t polish some turds…… I must spend some time among the 501c3 filings, there should be some clues there.

    • WildaBeast

      Whoa, whoa whoa…if the insurance companies have already paid out, as I understand it, the onus is then on the COMPANIES to recover the money from Narconon. Not on the families. If the payout HASN’T yet been made, then the families have to go after Narconon themselves if the insurance companies are granted permission to wash their hands of the whole scummy mess. In that case I feel awful for the families.

      • Missionary Kid

        I hope that the naming of the Desmonds is not to require that they repay the money, but to prevent them from suing the insurance company.

    • WhereIsSHE

      Take a look at Western World’s Second Amendment to Complaint for Declaratory Judgment. In the list of declarations regarding coverage they are seeking the court to rule upon, there are two to note:
      They are specifically seeking the court to determine that “NIAC’s policy of commercial liability insurance obligates it to provide COVERAGE [emphasis supplied by me] and a defense”…”and is obligated to reimburse Western World for the defense, fees, costs and expenses…”
      See Paragraphs “O” and “P” at pp.9-10.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks

        • WhereIsSHE

          Don’t thank me. I haven’t addressed the fact that NIAC (Nonprofit’s Insurance Association of California–also a named defendant in the declaratory judgment action) is likely to disagree–and have the same good arguments as to why any coverage and duty to defend they had is also now void.

          I think this is another good reason you see plaintiff’s counsel in the underlying actions now pursuing civil RICO claims against the Narconon defendants.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Thank you for ‘splaining yet again. Love RICO and Narconon in the same sentence.

          • Eclipse-girl

            If they are able to use RICO on Narconon, does that allow them to follow the corporate structure into the IAS or Co$?

            • Robert Eckert

              They have to follow the corporate structure first, in order to be able to use RICO. That is, the factual basis for using RICO involves proving first that all of these supposedly separate corporations are really just fingers on one big hand, or tentacles on one big octopus, whatever metaphor you like.

            • Eclipse-girl

              The Insurance Co. have consultants, and accountants who will be able to follow the corporate trail. Then RICO can be applied. Does that mean the accounts of IAS will be used to pay damages and claims?

            • Robert Eckert

              They have to “pierce the corporate veil”, proving that the supposed independence of these various corporations is illusory. That is a rather high burden of proof, actually, but I am sure they are working on it.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am sure they are too. I thought someone who was involved in the set up had blown . I hope they have that person as a consultant. Maybe I need to get a notebook and write down the details.

          • Missionary Kid

            I missed the RICO claim. That’s powerful stuff.

          • WildaBeast

            I clearly need to either a) look up RICO to try and get a better understanding of it, or b) ask my wife to explain why it’s such a big deal. I don’t have the best handle on American federal legislation, and I can tell I’m missing something big here.

            • Robert Eckert

              The statute was drafted to break up the “Five Families” of the classic Francis Ford Coppola style Sicilian Mafia, and indeed that particular manifestation of organized crime is a petty shadow of its former self. The language has been found useful to attack many other big organizations which hide behind mazes of cutouts.

            • WildaBeast

              Thanks, Robert!

      • WildaBeast

        I love having a lawyer around here! Especially as Scientology and Narconon find themselves farther and farther down the crapper, embroiled in suits, it’s bloody awesome that there’s a Bunkerite who can explain to us (well, me at least) what’s actually happening in the legal proceedings. Forgive the comparison, but legalese and Scientologese have in common the fact that they’re both basically dialects that have to be learned before they can be understood; since I don’t speak either very well, translators are great to have around!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          There is a large handful of legal eagles here at the bunker.

          Speaking of which…where the hell did Moxon Moxoff go?

          • Robert Eckert

            He is getting older and doubtless sicker, as Scilons and the Scilon-associated are wont to do.

          • USA MRIID

            Or better yet: Where the hell is Helena Kobrin? Remember *that* incompetent ass? The dwarf should drag her ass out of The Hole and put her back in to a court room, she would totally win these criminal and civil court cases. Totally.

            • BananaSplits8

              *Kobrin evil eye*

              LOL!!!

            • USA MRIID

              Sweet Baby Jesus and Xenu, I would *love* to see Kobrin dragged out and propped up in any court anywhere once again. And Heber, of course, out in front of a television camera would be awesome times 12. πŸ™‚

            • Eclipse-girl

              My fear is that people who could be pulled out will be used as scape goats.

            • USA MRIID

              David already has his henchmen lined up to take the fall when the felony indictments are handed down, he’s going to drag Heber out of The Hole and prop him us as “President” of the crimes that Scientology will be indicted on.

  • Interested

    What level OT is JT? Why could he not save his son? Why could I not save my husband even though my tone 40was well and truly in as he lay dying? The expression recently used in parliment here and which comes to mind is ” bovine verbal excrement” !
    On another point, going to the comic (see sometime standup comic above) then going to sale reF door knobs 75$for A DOOR KNOB!,,,, yikes! They are using the wrong suppliers!

    • Observer

      The doorknobs probably cost $10. The rest is COB’s cut.

      • Interested

        I have got to start me a religion..

    • Missionary Kid

      If the doorset (knobs, door strike, and mechanism) is a Medico or Baldwin, that’s actually cheap, believe it or not. They are built to last forever, or for hard use. Doorknobs are solid brass.

      The only place Co$ would spend that much is for Davey’s personal use, otherwise, it’s Kwickset or Weslock at about $20 a set.

  • Missionary Kid

    Let’s hope that any facility that uses the LRH tech has a hard time getting insurance even at high prices, and are forced to close.

    • USA MRIID

      Insurance companies are required to insure some percentage of otherwise uninsurable entities. Even if every carrier were to refuse to cover the Scientology crime syndicate’s criminal offices, some of them would be forced to — at least in the United States there is that requirement.

      • WildaBeast

        Wait, what? If an organization has been proved to lie to the companies that insure it, the people who pay for the services it purports to (but does not) render, the communities where it sets up shop, and everyone else remotely involved with them, AND has been proved to place its clients in danger both psychologically and medically…they still have to be insured even if nobody wants to insure them? Can’t they lose their license to operate for shit like that? If they have no license to operate, then nobody can be forced to insure them…right???

        • Eclipse-girl

          I feel the same way you do. If the organization has be shown to be lying or corrupt, who can an insurance co be forced to cover them? I would certainly make sure the rates were sky high.

        • USA MRIID

          That’s the way of it, carriers are found who don’t know the scope of the crime syndicate’s crimes, they insure the corporation because their people don’t do “full diligence” in investigating the syndicate, so it’s after the fact that their lawyers and investigators do their homework. But even so, eventually when no insurance company will insure a heavy risk like Scientology, insurance carriers are required to “pool” the risk, some insurance company gets assigned to cover the crooks.

          The irony is that insurance companies are also crooks, every fucking one of them.

  • dwayners13 .

    As a Canadian (who lives in Ontario) I can tell you we are extremely tolerant when it comes to religion, religious organization & practices etc., however we don’t really consider scientology a religion (para-religion at best) & now that we’ve learned the truth about Narconon, it’s not going to be easy for them to open up any new centres here. Our opposition to opening a new centre isn’t about the people they serve, but rather the way Narconon operates. The point I hope every understands is that our opposition isn’t about discrimination against people with addictions or religious intolerance, it’s about the deceptive & corrupt practices of Narconon & Scientology. The fact that my fellow Canadians were so strongly opposed to Narconon coming to their community speaks volumes in terms of just how much we abhor corruption & people taking advantage of the most vulnerable among us & not about religious discrimination or intolerance . . . eh!

    • tetloj

      Glad it’s not just a nimby (not in my back yard) protest.

    • WildaBeast

      πŸ˜€ As an Ontarian Canadian rehab graduate, I was dead set against Narconon opening anywhere in this country or anywhere else, but (and I may be a horrible person for saying this) ESPECIALLY not anywhere near Toronto. I don’t see this as a NIMBY thing, but rather as a trying-to-protect-vulnerable-people thing. I KNOW firsthand how shitty you feel at rock bottom, and how desperate you can be to just make it *stop*. My reason for not wanting it anywhere near my city is that I still know an awful lot of people who are using like crazy, and if and when they hit rock bottom and head to rehab, the last place I’d ever want them to go is Narconon. I’m a huge proponent of harm reduction as a philosophy (it saved my sanity and sense of self), and I’d rather see people forced into AA/NA than voluntarily go to Narconon. If there isn’t one nearby, the people I know and care for won’t be at nearly as much risk of ending up in one, thinking they’re going to get better. The article I read in the Star on this did quote some residents as saying, paraphrased, “NIMBY!”, but most of them were genuinely concerned about Narconon’s reputation and practices and that was wonderful to see.

      • Imelda Marcos

        That’s what I took away from the story too, not just straight NIMBY.

    • USA MRIID

      Everyone understands that Scientology is not a religion, that it is organized crime.

      • dwayners13 .

        Considering all the fall out they are currently experiencing with lawsuits, investigations, members leaving by the truckload, lack of new members & bad press I think your giving them too much credit referring to them as organized . . . As for the crime part . . . Bang on!

        • USA MRIID

          LOL! Yeah, well, their endless shell corporations and fake fronts come and go, the Scientology crime syndicate does not even seem to bother keeping them current or straight in their stupid little dwarfish heads. They’re “organized” in the sense that they are deliberate, specifically designed to commit fraud against the gullible.

  • California

    RE: Canada
    Congratulations, friends up North. It took us much longer to refuse Narconon access to the SCN-owned facility in Leona Valley, CA back in 2004-2006 but we did, meanwhile unearthing all types of deceit…..

    And Kudos to the insurance companies who are really catching on to the Narconon fraud and want nothing to do with it.

    And now SAMHSA, at the state level, is really moving on the Narconons. More news forthcoming.

    Take that DM, Bob Adams, Clark Carr and whoever else was or is involved in this dangerous scam.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “… he said Scientology would be buying it and β€˜gifting’ it to Narconon. He actually said it like that.” because scientology is just that generous..

    What I’m waiting for is all the health insurance companies like United and Aetna and Blue Cross and Humana and Bravo and Coventry and all the others who’ve been hoodwinked by co$ to start denying and recouping payments made on fraudulent claims..

    • ze moo

      CO$ looks at such ‘gifting’ as an investment in a rental. The NarCONon will be paying rent and royalties to lil’ davey and then they get access to the ‘graduates’. The slavery business must be tough if they have to invest that much to get bodies…..

      • Eclipse-girl

        then it isn’t a gift, is it?

        • Robert Eckert

          Of course it isn’t really a gift: that would be out-exchange and require putting ethics in! Come to think of it, you are out-ethics for even thinking such a suppressive notion, so you should report to a sec-check immediately!

        • ze moo

          You are correct, it isn’t a gift, its an agreement to pay rent. Carr just told an ‘acceptable truth’.

    • Graham

      Fraudulent claims made by fraudulent clams πŸ™‚

    • USA MRIID

      The implication that the Scientology criminal made is that the “gifting” means that the Scientology crime syndicate gets nothing out of running the facility. The insane crook didn’t mention the fact that the fraud sends money straight to Scientology coffers since NarCONon is Scientology.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    This is not like Senator Xenophon in Australia but we have at least one friend in the Senate. I copied and pasted this from elsewhere on the internet:

    “Hon. Senator CΓ©line Hervieux-Payette, states, “Scientology and Conservatives: is the government burying its head in sand?

    During ‘Question Period’, the Senator comments to the Honourable senators:

    “My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. On May 15, Le Devoir reported that the Church of Scientology was preparing for a major offensive in Canada. This pseudo-church seems obsessed with the idea of establishing itself in Canada in order to recruit new members. According to the president of Canada’s Church of Scientology, Yvette Shank, they hope to open another seven churches by the end of 2011 in Canada’s major cities, much like the one opened in downtown Quebec City in January 2010. They are looking to build in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Kitchener.”

    The Senator was right. The building goes on. Toronto has an ideal org in process. Kitchener has built its ideal org but nearby, in Cambridge. I can’t comment on the other cities.

    This is not the first time Scientology has failed to build a Narconon recruiting station near Toronto. They tried the same thing in a small town called Marmora, east of Toronto, about ten years ago. They wanted to buy up an old motel and use that as the site. At the time there were protests going on in Toronto and the Toronto protesters were ready to drive up with handbills, posters and pickets to alert the locals. They didn’t need us though. In that small town, population 1500 they were getting 125 people out to meetings concerning the cult’s application which was voted down 4 to 0. Story here– http://www.culteducation.com/reference/scientology/narconon/narconon6.html

    They will try again.

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      By the by I was lower downtown Quebec city at the beginning of August and can report that the place was Deadsville. We went by twice every day over the weekend, morning and early evening, and there were no lights on and no one about. Even tried the doors: no cigar. An older gentleman spied us both times one day, came over and asked what was so interesting to us? I told him that Co$ is a cult that is on the outs, he laughed, said that the neighbourhood was well aware of this, that not too many people visited. He also mentioned that they had another place in Ste-Foy on Chemin Ste-Foy, which we did not have time to check out. All in all what can be said is that the building, an old commercial space in lower town which is strictly a working class area, seems very much out of scheme for Co$ since their preferred victims are usually picked with an eye to their access to cash. You would think they would want to be situated where the dough is, Ste-Foy is a better locale, Sillery and upper Quebec city would be ideally best. It just seemed totally incongruous to us.
      Next time I plan to look up the set up in Ste-Foy.

      • WildaBeast

        Maybe they’re looking to prey on the working class now because they figure the working class is less likely to be forewarned and thus forearmed? This could tie in with the trend people have been noticing here – the drive to sign up new recruits for the EPF/SO as soon as they’re hooked in. They may be caring less about money and just be desperate for warm bodies these days – is that bad, or good? Certainly, if true, a sign of desperation.

        • kemist

          In that case they should target another city altogether. Quebec City’s working class is mainly government and university employees and students, and there is little true class separation. The “working class” tends to be just as informed as the “upper class”. And most of us are weary of religions thanks to past abuses by the catholic church.

          Other cults understand this and won’t even approche you if you’re white and french speaking. They mainly target immigrants now.

          • WildaBeast

            I take your point. I lived in Montreal for awhile, but never in Quebec City, and don’t really know much about the demographics there. Thanks for pointing it out.

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            So right!

        • Marie Claire Wolf

          Bad for Co$ for sure, bodies are one thing, to nail them into place another. I am totally skeptical about this ‘caring less about money’ since that is all they really care about. Let’s console ourselves with what the elderly gentleman’s attitude and response was: laughter.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        No llights on and nobody home. Great! Here is a weird story. As a staff member in Toronto, four decades ago, there were 120 people on the staff board. This was pretty impressive considering that their total membership here and now, including babes-in-arms may be no more than 250. But what really got to me was that my supervisor told be the staff board had room for 100,000 workers! The future looked bright!

        Well, their future has become a cruel joke. Now after forty years of recruiting, they seem to have a very, very small staff. My guess will be like guessing the number of jelly beans in a jar, but I am thinking maybe twelve people on staff. So either we suppressives have been doing a great job getting the word out, or sixty years into it they haven’t come up with the clears and OT’s that can demonstrate their superhuman powers.

        Ex-hippies who had used acid one too many times didn’t make great staffers but they were easily convinced. I don’t think there is an equivalent today.

      • monkeyknickers

        God I want to visit Quebec SO BADLY. And Nova Scotia. Maybe I’ll just come live in Canada.

        Eh?

        :))

        • Marie Claire Wolf

          Eh, why not coconut?

          • monkeyknickers

            I need to get rid of these kids!! They’re like little lice. Louses. Whatever. The one next to me MIGHT be a bedbug. Once they infest you’re area, you’re screwed. πŸ™‚

            Also! Newfoundland has a HUGE concentration of some of the oldest fossils on the planet. Just the IDEA of seeing Charnia in the flesh – er . . . . mineral compound something something – makes my face melt.

            I’d totally chuck the fetuses and the 4 year old. I’ll sell them to the circus! Then I’ll have a little road money. πŸ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              Tough morning, huh? Got ’em using your bladder as a trampoline?

            • monkeyknickers

              Their intent is to kill me. I know that now.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Just wait. Every age will bring its new joys and new despairs. The teen yrs can be very tough.

            • Missionary Kid

              I let mine live. They turned out O.K.

            • monkeyknickers

              I feel especially sensitive about teenagers. I feel so bad for them. It’s rough when the world ends at the tip of your nose. You have no perspective and I think that’s why lots of teens act out – they’re simply frustrated.

              But obviously I will be watching them like a HAWK AT ALL TIMES. πŸ™‚

            • Eclipse-girl

              You can be sensitive about teens but they are usually very insensitive to others. Their world revolves around them an their problems. No one could ever have gone through the shit they are gong through. There are only a few times when they actually will listen.

            • CraftLass

              I listened a lot as a teen. Just not to parents or teachers. lol

            • Eclipse-girl

              Yeah, because our teen peers are smarter than out parents.

            • Interested

              Nope the sleepiness nights will kill ya. -:)))

            • Eclipse-girl

              When is the due date?

            • monkeyknickers

              Never. I decided against it for scary vagina reasons. I’ve opted instead to house them until technology catches up with us and they can be removed with brain power and laser beams without damage to . . . . um. Whatever. You get it.

              But if I HAD to – they’d be arriving in mid November.

            • tetloj

              Bunker babies…our first since mini Richelieu

            • Eclipse-girl

              (((HUGS))) You have a while to go yet. We only want you and the kids to be happy and healthy.

            • monkeyknickers

              You’re very sweet. And now I’m going to invite you to a . . . . um . . . . three or four month party!!! There will be cake and shit! (literally) All you need to do is occasionally bounce an infant on your knee.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I will even change a diaper or two.

            • Robert Eckert

              Were you the one who linked to the David Attenborough documentary with the Precambrian “animals” that looked like ferns and hadn’t figured out how to move yet? That was fascinating. I kept watching it in 5-minute chunks for a couple days and moved on to the next part.

            • monkeyknickers

              Um . . . . .probably? That’s exactly the sort of off topic stuff I seem to nearly exclusively post on this blog. πŸ™‚

              And yes – it IS fascinating. Riveting. Proto-animals and fossils and bacteria that can live in ice for 20 million years.

              Can you imagine running your hand over a fossil that is FIVE HUNDRED million years old? I really WOULD pass out. πŸ™‚

            • Robert Eckert

              well then I probably thank you for that one!

            • ze moo

              I have a fossil trilobite that I found on the shore of Lake Ontario a long time ago. It is around 400 – 450 million years old.

              http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130903102101.htm

            • Robert Eckert

              Keewwwwl! I knew a Tibetan lama (Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, recently celebrated his 90th birthday) who brought out a fossil seashell when he fled his country (when I heard him talk about this he had not been back to Tibet for 20 years and doubted he would ever be able to, although he has been able to see his family there since). His Buddhist mindset is a curious mixture of medieval and scientific: he said the significance of the shell was as a symbol of the impermanence of all things, that it showed how the mountains, however huge and permanent they appeared, had once been below the water, and someday would be again.

            • monkeyknickers

              That is exactly how I feel. Once when I was in Alaska, I was exhausted and sitting in the car glassily staring at these AMAZING mountains, watching the fog float around them and I thought – I am a speck of dust. These mountains will be here long after I’m gone. But we’re literally made of the same materials. I had the same feeling (this is going to sound stupid) once when I was getting acupuncture for heartburn and thinking about Dunkleosteous swimming through the ocean. I get I’m weird. No need to hold back πŸ™‚

              It made me feel . . . . way better. Way .. . . . comforted, I guess.

              I mean, I don’t have the tibetan lama lineage thing and don’t meditate or live in a tree or whatever, but I know the feeling he is describing. A wink and we’re gone. And it’s not a bad thing. It just is.

              Christ Monkey-self. Depress everybody why don’t you.

            • CraftLass

              You just described precisely how I feel when I look at the night sky or one of my meteorites. Especially when holding a meteorite, actually. The idea that the stuff that made us and the world we live in traveled through space and found its way here and came together the way it did… Well, it just makes me feel both insignificant and incredibly important at the same time, because there is nothing in this universe that is unimportant, because it’s all made of the same stuff and it all has to work together to work at all. And it does. And I’m here and able to hold a meteorite with my opposable thumb and ponder it all.

              Amazing.

              Definitely not depressing.

              While we’re on mountains: Once upon a time, the Appalachians were taller than the Himalayas. Ponder that for awhile. πŸ™‚

            • BananaSplits8

              And if you’re up to really blowing your mind away, add to that all the possible permutations, statistical probabilities of your conception and that of everyone in your lineage who made your being here possible.

            • CraftLass

              I contemplate that all the time, especially since I literally have no idea who my parents are or were so I can’t even construct who the hundreds of people involved in genetically creating me might be or where they were from (well, all I can go by is looks, sort of like trying to guess what breed the stray at the shelter might be lol). I’m considering DNA testing just so I can learn my biological heritage, because thinking about how any of us happened and the migration of people around our globe is so fascinating.

              It took almost 14 billion years to make every single one of us who we are and to put us where we are right now. Again, I say amazing. Each of us has barely a moment from that perspective. Yet we have plenty of time to influence the rest of it all, even if we never know what that influence might be.

            • monkeyknickers

              That is INCREDIBLE. As in not to be believed. πŸ™‚

              And you (one) can go all the way back to that moment when two amino acids made a protein.

              Religious people use the argument of ignorance (as in ignoring) – if it can’t be explained, it must be a god doing it. But I think it is SO much more awe inspiring when you see it for what it is, and you don’t know how it got there.

              Like coincidence.

            • Orglodyte

              Sometimes I think we are the universe’s way of appreciating itself.

            • monkeyknickers

              Right. On.

              You said it so much better than I did. Thank god you were here. Extra shrinky dinks for you, girl.

              What do you mean, “your meteorites”? Is it a collection?

            • CraftLass

              πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ You are too kind!

              Well, not a collection of note or anything, but yeah, we’ve started collecting meteorites when we can. It’s kind of an addiction. I won the first one, a beautiful little Sikhote-Alin from a Russian fall in 1947 in a Meteorite Men contest and it unleashed a bit of mania around my house. We mostly have a bunch of tiny little ones but we do have two gorgeous pallasite slices, which are iron meteorites with pockets of olivine (pardon me if you know that). This is a spectacular example, ours are much tinier: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/13327/lot/8084/ . I also have a polished pallasite gemstone that needs to be set in a ring, I’m not really a jewelry person, but it’s such a wonderful reminder of our connection to the rest of the universe. And outrageously pretty, they sort of have a yellow glow that emanates when the light strikes them just right. It’s very rare to get gem-quality olivine to arrive intact (very fragile and, you know, it’s not a very mellow or cool ride through the atmosphere lol) so they’re usually very small and not in great condition, finding even a tiny flawless one is not very easy. Mind-blowing. All of it. Everything is so fragile yet so eternal. Matter becomes energy becomes matter. Everything changes, yet nothing does. I see that in every meteorite, even the tiny ones that booths give away at telescope shows. Each one is unique, therefore, to me, each one is very valuable.

              My partner wants to be a meteorite hunter when he “grows up” and I’d like to go back to school so I can do the lab work to identify and appraise what he finds. πŸ™‚ We have some strange dreams, the pair of us…

            • monkeyknickers

              THAT IS THE ONLY THING I EVER WANT. Do you look at it all the time? I would. I’d probably paste the damn thing to my forehead.

              Wow!! Have you seen the ones coming out of Morocco? AMAZING.

            • Sherbet

              Why do I get the feeling you’re joking about the circus? πŸ˜€

            • monkeyknickers

              I AM NOT JOKING SHERBET.

              okay maybe a little.

              but I’m open to the possibility.

            • Sherbet

              OK, I warn you that there often is no magical falling-in-love-immediately-with-offspring, and it takes a little time, but Ash? You adore the kiddo…although she would look awesome riding the back of an elephant in a pink tutu (Ash in the tutu, not the elephant).

            • monkeyknickers

              That is actually the thing that freaks me out the most. We are so conditioned to say how we fall in love with our babies the instant they appear in the world, that saying elsewise is tantamount to child abuse or something. I already love them . . . but still. It annoys me that women are wedged into this 50s style box.

              I WANT TO WEAR THE TUTU.

              In the meantime, here is one of my children. Ruby. I’d put up Delphine’s too but I think I’ve taken up enough space with the whole Canada/fossil/pregnancy thang.

            • Observer

              Those 3D sonograms are both very cool and kind of creepy.

            • monkeyknickers

              Often mostly creepy. πŸ™‚

              Except her stupid foot which I plainly need to eat the moment she comes out. FAT BABY FEET RULE. With a nice Chianti. πŸ™‚

            • aquaclara

              hi, there, Ruby!!! Welcome to the Bunker family! Your mommy has told us all about you, and we know you will make her smile lots of times. Say hi to your sister for us, too!
              By the way, you will have the best cousin waiting for you when you arrive!

            • monkeyknickers

              ha!

              In response she tried to forcibly remove my spleen with her feet.

            • WildaBeast

              I remember the last two months of my stepmother’s pregnancy. We had one bathroom and one 50-year-old toilet sitting in the middle of an unfinished basement. It had a porcelain seat and we all hated using it because BRRR! My poor stepmother was in the can every 20 waking minutes (probably when she tried to sleep too) from 7 months on. We all gave up and used the basement crapper because she was *always* in the upstairs one. It gave me a whole new perspective on the “joys” of pregnancy, I tell you…

              But, um, good luck? I mean, you’ll have your body back to yourself in two months or so, at least.

            • aquaclara

              baah – spleens are highly overrated….! Two jumping beans in there…you know they are going to be the cutest babies ever! Just wait.
              πŸ™‚

            • WildaBeast

              The finger at the lips makes her look very thoughtful. Maybe it’s just she’s a wee bit crowded in there with all the company, but I’m looking at it thinking she’s just about to say something really profound…

            • monkeyknickers

              Ha!

              Like – “Lay off the tofu shit, we prefer spareribs”?

            • Sherbet

              You are correct, ‘knickers. But that baby, oh, gosh, what a miracle! I had the ordinary B&W shadowy what-the-hell-is-that?? ultrasound picture of my son 26 years ago. Look at the nose and hand! She’s pondering, Hmmm…bladder trampoline, or unending hiccups today…

              And what aquaclara said.

            • monkeyknickers

              That’s uncanny, S! One of then does have hiccoughs today.

              And yeah – once you go 3D you can’t go back. It’s money I don’t have but jesus . . . . how can I resist seeing them sucking their thumbs?

              Giving me the finger more like.

              Plus Ash is still very unhappy about this baby development. (I told her that this is EXACTLY why you should use pills instead of condoms. I’m hoping the thought blossoms in about 15 years. πŸ™‚ ) So I think maybe coming with me and seeing them move around and stuff might connect her a little more. I already made her “baby boss” (I bought a 2nd hand stethoscope and asked her if she would please tell the babies one rule every day about being alive. She hasn’t gotten that it’s the wrong way around yet)

              I dunno. I’m lost on this one.

            • Missionary Kid

              Making her a helper is a good idea, but don’t give her too much responsibility. That can kill childhood, making her a second mother.

              It’s a balance, but you’ll figure it out.

            • monkeyknickers

              I def won’t make her a second mama. But I wanted to give some CONTROL over the situation, some ownership. She deplores change and why wouldn’t she. So this is especially awful for her. I want her to feel NEEDED and vital to the process.

              I’m not sure it’s helping.

              Although this morning she told the babies, “you have to chew real good” so maybe we’re on are way.

              I think it’s really important to stop co-sleeping with her and making her claim her own space, but . . . . we’re housed in a barn, basically. And how does she morph into 8 times her normal size once asleep? It’s incredible.
              What can you do.

            • Sherbet

              It will work out. I know that sounds patronizing, but it will.

            • monkeyknickers

              It has to, doesn’t it? πŸ™‚

            • Robert Eckert

              This is the Bunker! We can never get enough about Canadians, or trilobites, or pregnancies (or lampreys, or honey badgers…)

            • Missionary Kid

              MK probably feels like she’s got lampreys or honey badgers living inside at times.

            • monkeyknickers

              At least you could eat the eels. πŸ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              Be prepared for Ash to possibly get passive-aggressive towards the little ones, although I suspect that’s more a male thing. I quickly learned not to leave the oldest alone with his younger brother (3 1/2 years difference) for a while.

            • Pinkhammer

              Ummm, you’re sending them to me, remember?! In exchange for cookies…

            • monkeyknickers

              OH RIGHT!!

              Bright shiny day !! This is wonderful – ! FedEx here I come!

              I enjoy oatmeal raisin.

              BTW.

              πŸ™‚

            • Pinkhammer

              Soft and chewy or crispy? I can do either one… =}

            • monkeyknickers

              SOFT AND CHEWY.

              πŸ™‚

            • Interested

              Yeah… Right. Once they are out they are amazing until they hit 10 approx.then when they hit their 20’s they become great again. But when they leave home… Or when they get engaged as mine did two days ago. It hits you really hard… So enjoy the little buggers. .

            • monkeyknickers

              That isn’t exactly encouraging, Interested. πŸ™‚

              Also, I’m sure I’ll dig them, but in the meantime I hate being pregnant. It is not that joyful glorious transcendental experience promised to me from any number of magazines and media outlets.

              It sucks.
              It’s uncomfortable and annoying and I can’t climb trees with Ash or have a cocktail. :))

              Maybe if I had a partner it would be easier. I dunno. Someone to fetch me pickled cauliflower and lemon cake.

              πŸ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re forgetting the, as I put it, 23 year old asshole stage. At least it gets better after that.

            • Eclipse-girl

              My kid is 21 now. She has been improving since age 18 / 19. I certainly do not need a relapse into that stage.

            • Missionary Kid

              Part of the problem was that he’d been living with his mother for several years. She talks too much, (women are much more verbal than men, and boys learn to tune them out) and he didn’t really listen. It’s a mother-son thing.

              The comic strip Zits captures it perfectly.

              When he moved in with me to continue his education, he found out (and he had forgotten that when I was a single parent with him) that I don’t talk much, but when I do, he’d better listen because I act. No fight, but he was on his own.

              Living on his own did a lot of the growing up for him.

              Luckily, he eventually met a woman who he has a good relationship with, and they moved up to the Bay Area and he finished college.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Totally agree that women are more verbal than men.

              I also agree that getting the child out of house (if you can) is important for all involved.

            • Missionary Kid

              What women don’t understand is that when they go into their extreme stat of verbosity, that men feel under attack.

              What men need to learn is that if they feel under attack, they need to leave, telling that they need to say what they’re doing, and that they’ll be back – without stopping at a drink, which just makes things worse.

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              Charnia LOL! How the hell did you come up with that one?

            • monkeyknickers

              I’m a geek. I like rocks and ants and abiogenesis and stuff.

              πŸ™‚

              It’s what I do when I’m not in beery club or a smelly studio. πŸ™‚

            • Eclipse-girl

              Abiogenesis is very very cool. My Dh writes software for molecular biology, structural genetics, etc. I know more than I should about some aspects of biology. Your kids are going to learn way cool stuff.

        • Robert Eckert

          I love having an excuse even to visit the Great White North. I looked into what it would take to immigrate there, during the Bush years when I was in despair over the future of the US, but they prefer young immigrants to old. I would have had to put some money in a Canadian bank account to ensure I would not be a “public charge”; I did put some in Windsor but never got anywhere close to the required amount.

          • monkeyknickers

            What’s the required amount?!

            • Robert Eckert

              I don’t think it’s a fixed thing, depends on how you score on their various measures of your potential Canadian-ness: it was $10,000 in my case but I was going through hard times and never got more than $2,000 into the Windsor account before I gave up on it. Job aptitudes and age are big factors; my French, though meager, counted as a plus; I’m sure Eclipse-girl’s family ties would be a big plus; for you, my dear MK, “First Nation” ties might well be a plus if your tribe straddles the border.

            • Aslansown

              You should have tried to bribe them with back bacon.

            • RMycroft

              Take off eh! Doughnuts are what you ought to use.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5bVm5qsbbM&html5=1

            • Robert Eckert

              Driving back from the Adirondacks we stopped at a Tim Horton’s in one of those ONRoute rest areas, and after my buddy and I had settled on all our coffee and donut requirements the kid behind the counter said “You have a good day, ey?” My buddy who has not been in Canada as often as I have was astonished that some of them actually talk that way, quite un-self-consciously.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              It won’t work. Coals to Newcastle. Bribe us with global warming.

            • Aslansown

              Ha ha! OK – I’ll keep that in mind!

            • monkeyknickers

              David Miscavige is using my money to pay his hairdresser and upgrade his tanning bed. Prolly he’ll pay me back after he’s a well coiffed golden brown.

              Until then I think I’m stuck stateside. πŸ™‚

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              That’s really funny. Here’s hoping that he will soon be a ward of the State.

            • Poison Ivy

              My grandfather was from Canada and alas, that doesn’t count.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Oh well, I like it in Wis. The winter is more brutal in Canada.

            • WildaBeast

              Depends on where in Canada. Toronto winters are milder because of the lake effect, and Vancouver has it GREAT.

          • Eclipse-girl

            My grandmother was a canadian. can that help me?

          • kemist

            Trick is to have friends or family over here who can transfer funds temporarily into your account for the verification. And to first enter on a student visa. Also, if you aim for Quebec, learning french before hand does not hurt your chances.

            Most of my friends are immigrants from India or Bengladesh and have managed to get permanent residence (meaning you have a right to most public services, but no passport or right to vote yet) with one or two of these strategies.

            • BananaSplits8

              I have a feeling the student angle would be a bit difficult for M. Eckert no matter how much the immigration officer apologizes.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          We get wind of things that go wrong in the States before they get here. Per capita there is less AIDS, less Crack and less Scientology. We also read more because it is too cold in the winter to do anything else.

          • monkeyknickers

            Well lay in some supplies THIS winter, Mighty. πŸ™‚ I have a feeling it might be glued-to-the-screen time.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I laughed reading your message. I certainly hope so. I have been thinking that Scientology will collapse with a whimper, just getting smaller by the day until there is no money left and Hubbard’s followers have split into a hundred different subcults. Maybe not. Maybe Miscavige will go to jail for a long, long time and the assets will be divided up in class action law suits. I would love to see that. I promised a few friends that I would dress my car up like it was going to a wedding and drive around the local cult office blowing the horn if they fell. I sure hope so.

    • WildaBeast

      Korgo, I really appreciate you putting this information up here. I don’t know how much time and effort you spend pulling it all together, but you’re keeping me informed about what’s going on in my own backyard without me having to spend any effort on it at all. It makes me feel lazy, but I love you for it!

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the kind words. Following them has been a hobby and a public service now for over forty years! It beats collecting stamps. And contrary to what OSA once suggested of me, I have a life.

    • Imelda Marcos

      That’s a very interesting account (I know Marmora quite well) – the guy who bought the motel and claims he isn’t a Scientologist, but “devout Sikh”, keeps referring to what you would normally call “patients” as “students”. Think he knew something he wasn’t saying? They must not have taken it to the Ontario Municipal Board, because the OMB is known for approving every. single. thing. any developer wants. There is a campaign here in downtown Toronto, choking with an over-supply of unpurchased condos, to have the OMB eliminated.

      • WildaBeast

        Fuck the OMB. That is all.

        • Imelda Marcos

          Can I steal that? πŸ˜‰

          • WildaBeast

            Do, please. I have placed no copyright πŸ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              If you haven’t placed a copyright, then you’re obviously not a clam. Good on ya!

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Yes, F the OMB.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        That episode in Marmora literally hit close to home. I have family there. The family has had some issues with substance abuse (that are now in the past). They are the last people who should have to deal with an abusive cult. I phoned them, made them aware but because the situation was so important, they were already in-the-know. The people there, at their town meetings, spoke to the Scientologists in plain words, having no fear of the lawsuits and harassment that the critics are so aware of. In the end the Scientologists gave up. Marmora 1- Scientology no score.

    • RMycroft

      Toronto’s Idle Org has been “in progress” for a year now. Other than the boards on the ground floor windows, there hasn’t been any sign of external work, and no sign of the dumpsters that they would need for an internal tear-down.

      Apparently Miscavige has put his tiny foot down that the org will be rebuilt, but I still bet that some day they sell the property to condo/shop developers for a BIG wad of cash.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I walk by there every month or so. There is a dynamite Chinese restaurant directly across the road. I think you have put two and two together (while up until now I have not done so). Maybe it was all a fundraising scam. Maybe the next step is to convince the donors that they need to do something else with the money.

    • TickTockDM

      Senator CΓ©line Hervieux-Payette also raised the subject of Scientology’s tax exemptions in Canada’s Senate after the “J.E.” French TV program in Quebec dedicated an entire hour to a hidden-camera investigation of Scientology in 2011:

      “Hon. CΓ©line Hervieux-Payette: Honourable senators, my question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

      “In light of the February 25, 2011, broadcast of the TV program JE on the topic of the Church of Scientology on the French-language network TVA, it would appear that this not-for-profit organization has nothing to do with any church, charitable organization or religion. It is quite clearly a cult that is putting Canadians’ physical and mental health in danger.

      “In the broadcast, hidden cameras showed how this organization extorts huge amounts of money from its victims. For instance, in the guise of some kind of therapy, one of the 40 organizations known as Narconon operates a detox centre using techniques from the Scientology movement, without the patients’ knowledge. These techniques have nothing to do with any recognized medical treatment methods.

      “Consequently, I would like the Leader of the Government to assure us that her government will look into this matter in order to protect Canadians from this cult, which is exploiting and abusing our tax system and benefiting from its status as a non-profit corporation, thereby avoiding paying income tax that the Minister of Finance, Mr. Flaherty, really needs.”

      The full exchange was published in Hansard for March 3, 2011:
      http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Chamber/403/Debates/091db_2011-03-03-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=40&Ses=3#27

      • Poison Ivy

        I love this woman!

      • Marie Claire Wolf

        Well thank you for that one, I rarely surf the French networks.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Let’s not abolish the Senate quite yet. I know a way for Duffy and Wallen to redeem themselves.

    • USA MRIID

      I was contacted by a television reporter in Glouchestershire, where ever the hell that is, who had a crook come in claiming to be someone other than Scientology looking to buy an old folks home to open up a “drug treatment” fraud. The television reporter gave me the guy’s name which was a fake, but he also sent me a photograph of the crook and I was able to identify him as a Scientology criminal from his “cookie cutter” web pages, if you remember those.

      Once we had the fucker’s real name, the television reporter met with the crook again, showed him the information I sent, and the fucker admitted it was him working for the Scientology crime syndicate. The news hit the local radio stations and television and the fuckers dropped their effort to buy the old-folks home.

      Also in Bowdon we got the fuckers thrown out: http://crackpots.us/bowdon.htm

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the info. Maybe it will end soon. At this point that is not just a wish, it is a distinct possibility.

  • tetloj

    Gotta put a shout out for Mary, Ethercat, Luke and Eric and others from Reaching 4 the tipping point and Narconon Reviews for tenacity and research chops. Truly excellent work.

    • Mary_McConnell

      Thanks! πŸ™‚

  • Imelda Marcos

    “This is a community that perhaps should be an example of what people can
    achieve when they stand together, shoulder to shoulder in battle.”

    Excellent.

  • tetloj

    Thank you Tony for the lovely downstat slide to the end of CO$’s statistical week.

  • Sherbet

    As long as Western World and other insurers don’t leave any plaintiffs (victims’ families) high and dry with no chance at a settlement, I’m a happy girl.

  • Love the nod to Bob and Doug McKenzie. Scientology is “strange brew” indeed.

    • Missionary Kid

      Strange brew, and as damaging to one’s health as alcoholism.

      • Marie Claire Wolf

        I would say more damaging: it swallows your hard earned money, destroys your life and robs you of self confidence.

        • Missionary Kid

          I think it’s a toss-up. Alcoholism kills brain cells. It gives a false sense of self confidence.

    • RMycroft

      It is one of the more unusual adaptations of Hamlet.

  • kemist

    I am from Quebec and I wonder if they had any patients from here.

    Normally (approved) drug addiction treatment is covered by our public health care system. I would find it weird that people who can get quality care for free would choose to fork over so much money to an unapproved facility.

    If no Quebec residents were patients, it could explain why the health ministry was a bit slow to react.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you for that insight.

    • junojones

      Thanks. Interesting to know.

    • kemist

      Also, maybe it should be known that in Canada healthcare is a province-held responsibility. Making healthcare complaints at the federal level, except maybe for new drug approval, is unlikely to bring you anywhere. You should address your complaint directly to the relevant provincial healthcare agency, which is the organism that has actual control over health-related issues.

  • Aslansown

    Just noticed that radaronline.com has a story up about Scientology “scandals” under the title of Scientology Under Siege. They have 17 photos of various people and the way they are hurting Scientology, (sometimes including quotes) about the lawsuit by Monique Rathbun, Leah Remini, Jenna Miscavige, Lisa McPherson, Miscavige’s sister’s arrest, etc. Be sure to look for picture #6 of our intrepid reporter. (For some reason I can’t link directly to the story but right now it’s about 1/2 way down the page.)

    • Missionary Kid
      • Aslansown

        Thank you!

        Also, in re-looking at Tony’s picture — is that an action figure of David Miscavige behind him?

        • Schmubbard

          Excellent spot!

          I think its a GI Jo(king) and Degrading action figure.

          PS : I’m copyrighting that, right now.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Now I have to go back and check.

        • tetloj

          Hmmmm…he has posted pix of his talking Terl figure….

          • Robert Eckert

            Yes, that’s the Terl. He did an “interview” in which he asked the appropriate questions to go with the answers “Kill all man-animals at will” etc, which Terl emits. That was way way back in pre-VV days when Battlefield Earth first came out, but he brought it back up for us at the VV (I have no hope of finding it right now).

            • Aslansown

              Thanks. I’ve never seen BE so it’s new to me. I was just staring at the face and it started to look familiar, but that’s probably because I’m in the Bunker so often and see the shoops with his head!

            • Robert Eckert

              You don’t want to watch BE, even for free. But here is the best take-down:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvbVYRvB4xs

            • Eclipse-girl

              Very funny. I was never going to watch BE and this review justifies that decision

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              LOL! That was great!

            • Unex Skcus

              Second that πŸ™‚

      • villagedianne

        Interestingly, on the same page of RadarOnline stories, there is one about the college-age son of Vanna White. He has joined the Hare Krishnas.
        He is a valuable recruit to them because of his parents’ millions$$.

        • Mooser

          Hare Krishnas? I’ve heard them chanting. They don’t need to buy any vowels.

          • CraftLass

            Best laugh I’ve had all day! Thanks, that was needed!

    • villagedianne

      Yes. The 17 blurbs are mostly celebrity related, but the first one is about Monique Rathbun’s lawsuit.
      For a long time COS experienced the upside of celebrity recruitment. As in “Scientology can’t be bad if John Travolta and Tom Cruise are in it.” The celebrity angle marketed Scientology to people who would not otherwise be interested in it.
      Now Scientology is experiencing the downside of celebrity recruitment. The celebrity angle is a convenient hook for the celebrity gossip sites report on stories about the abuses of the cult, to people who would not otherwise be interested in reading about Scientology.
      Hoist by their own petard!

  • Imelda Marcos

    Scientology is the only religion-y organization in Canada to be convicted of a felony, including breach of public trust, in the Canadian segment of the Snow White case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Church_of_Scientology_of_Toronto

    They also paid out the largest libel judgement in Canadian history (still stands!) related to the same case, when their lawyer libeled Mr. Casey Hill, the Crown Attorney who prosecuted the Snow White Case, right there on the steps of the courthouse. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_v._Church_of_Scientology

    • RMycroft

      I don’t know if it’s still true, but the second largest libel judgement was against two Scientologist penny stock players who libeled a Vancouver analyst. It was almost a trifecta, but the police union suit against Al Buttnor was settled.

  • Kim O’Brien

    i am going to smoke a joint to celebrate

    • WildaBeast

      Have you already done that, or should I roll my own and puff with you in spirit?

    • Missionary Kid

      And it’s now legal in Colorado, where you’re at.

    • villagedianne

      Have a side of niacin with that!

    • Sherbet

      Oh, great. Now our OSA spies will say we’re a posse of druggie lunatics on the fringe of the Internet. If ya got ’em, smoke ’em (legally), but I’m not sure you should announce it in the Bunker.

      • Mooser

        Sherbet, Kim is making a virtual announcement. That makes me think he is smoking a virtual joint.

        But I can’t blame Kim. “Leave no turn unstoned” was the best advice I ever got!

        • Sherbet

          Nah, nothing virtual about Kim’s joints! πŸ™‚ And she’s a she, BTW.

    • USA MRIID

      Down some Prozac while you’re at it!

  • RMycroft

    When they first announced the Advanced Org in “the Canadian Wilderness”, I knew that they had no idea of the bear-trap that they were stepping into of zoning cold war and how much everyone minds each others’ business in that community. I warned them! I warned them, but did they listen to me, oh no! “It’s just a harmless little community isn’t it?”

    Punch line: This was only the local zoning laws. When they get caught violating the Niagara Escarpment zoning, they’ll think that this was a walk in the park. Cut down two trees there, and the developers and environmental groups will be all over you.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg&html5=1

    • i-Betty

      Run away! Run away!

    • USA MRIID

      What? You mean behind the bunny?

  • Krew13

    Boycott all films starring Sciloons. By purchasing a ticket, you’re putting money in the pockets of Miscmidget’s small boy pants.I know that boycotting means that all the other people who’ve worked on a film and who aren’t Sciloons are also penalised in the process but they’ve been paid already and the only ones who’ll be missing out on your money that would otherwise go into their share of the grosses are people who are already rich. I like Jeremy Renner, I really do, and I like Simon Pegg, so it bothers me that they sign up to be in a film with Miscmidget’s BFF, but I can watch their other movies.

    And if there’s a movie you really want to see that stars a Sciloon, then I definitely do not suggest you illegally download anything. That would be wrong. I do not advocate or endorse anyone going to a site like isohunt and searching for a movie torrent to download. That would be wrong. Don’t do it.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am also a fan of Simon Pegg and Jeremy Renner. You can watch their films made with other people over and over. You can watch Peggs TV shows, too.

      • phronsie

        I looooove Simon Peg!!

    • Johan

      Very wrong krew. Definitely.

      • Krew13

        Glad you agree. I’d also say people shouldn’t even have a look at sites like isohunt. I know it’s easy to type isohunt into a web address bar but don’t. Say, for example, you want to watch Oblivion because you like sci-fi and you like Morgan Freeman but you don’t want to put your money in Sciloon coffers via Cruise. In that case, you should wait for it to come to TV. It would be wrong to go on a site like isohunt and search for a high quality Oblivion torrent to download and watch, so don’t do it and just wait for it on TV.

        • Aslansown

          Sounds like isohunt is entheta.

        • Robert Eckert

          And if it never shows up on TV, then even the lowest common denominators of the viewing audience thinks it is dreck. I mean, the cheesiest most awful films get on TV somewhere.

    • Mark

      And be very careful to avoid YIFY torrents and Rarbg. com as well.

    • USA MRIID

      Not many people can handle looking at Tom Cruise any more. The guy’s abject stupidity and lunacy has turned most people off of watching him, all they see if a buffoon.

      • Krew13

        True dat, bro! Whenever his name has come up in conversation in the last 8 years or so, the reactions have been along the lines of “I can’t stand him”, “He’s fucking insane” and “He’s a moron”.

        The tragedy of Cruise is that he’s actually a good actor and that at heart he’s a decent person whose mind has been poisoned by this disgusting cult. I once met someone who worked in a senior capacity on a Cruise film in the late 90s and said he was a very nice man and easy to work with. This makes sense, because that’s precisely the period in which Cruise is said to have drifted away from the COS to the extent that he was virtually out of it. It was after this that he was brought back into the fold and put on his “ethics cycle” which saw him divorcing Nicole and mentioning Sciloon propaganda in every interview, most infamously, of course, in the Matt Lauer interview. From thereon, it’s been a steady decline and ever more horrific revelations, like slave Org kids fixing his motorcycle, and Nazanin Boniadi being made to clean a toilet with a toothbrush as punishment for asking Miscmidget to repeat something.

        That, in essence, is the tragedy of many Sciloon members. Many of them would otherwise be decent, kind people, but being in this evil pyramid scheme scam has brainwashed them. And then you have the likes of Tommy Davis who’s just a piece of shit anyway.

        • USA MRIID

          Yeah, and it looks like Cruise’s career is over. Wonder how much money the idiot still has left.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    My day is made πŸ˜‰

  • Skwerl King

    Good News from our state. All addiction treatment facilities staff are going to need to be trained and licensed through board accredited programs in evidence based treatment. Thus ensuring Narc-a-Con will stay far away.

    • Missionary Kid

      Which state?

      • Mooser

        Which State? Washington, for one. And tomorrow, I’m going over to the Scientology Church in Seattle after my music lesson. I hope they’re ready for what is about to hit them. My scrutiny is known to be very intimidating. I’ll get to the bottom of this.

        • Missionary Kid

          It looks like Skwerl King just drops in and posts occasionally. I was wondering what state they were in.

          Good to hear about Washington. Thanks.

        • junojones

          Good to hear! I was wondering about that. I live in the Seattle area as well. I had to commute through the downtown daily for awhile this summer and was keeping tabs on the downtown branch. It was never open. Last winter, there was one very old guy who stood around looking pissed an bored, not very inviting. Must cost them a fortune in rent. I guess they just use it as a headquarters during events; after parades and such you can find dead tree literature of theirs strewn across the sidewalk.

          Good luck and have fun!

    • AnonBystander

      Wait… isn’t that narCONon? But anyways, excellent.

  • monkeyknickers

    I’ll just bet the insurance companies are pissed.

    Never try to hustle the hustler.

    • Missionary Kid

      Ya don’t want to fool with insurance companies. If they’re pissed enough to sue, they’re PISSED.

      • BananaSplits8

        Can’t wait until the cos plays the religious persecution card with them and see how well that goes over.

        • Missionary Kid

          Best laugh of the morning.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Insurance and financial institutions Are god in the U.S. They answer to No One.

          • WildaBeast

            Except the bottom line…and that’s what Narconon has been threatening. May they be sued into simultaneous bankruptcy and notoriety; may they be blacklisted by all the insurance companies of the world; may their land be sold from under them to pay judgments against them; may their executives be criminally charged with fraud, and may the money trail that leads to the {church} be laid bare for all to see.
            Is that about thorough enough for a curse? Let me know if I missed anything.

            • BananaSplits8

              Why do you hate artists?! *tear*

            • WildaBeast

              ??? I think something just went over my head…

            • Eclipse-girl

              I thought is was reference to JT’s spontaneous speech at a celebrity gala in LA on how artists are dying due to drugs. We have to save the artists.

            • BananaSplits8
            • WildaBeast

              Thank you! I think I missed that while I was away for a week there.
              And just…speechless with regards to speech. Do I snickersnort, roll my eyes, or both?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              lol………serious sarcasm attack!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              The Beast is the one on fire today. Oh, and I thought she meant con artists.

            • Observer

              John Travolta?! (My phone thinks Travolta should be “tea okra.”)

            • BananaSplits8

              Your phone seems to be wise to the world.

              Yes, it was a reference to JT’s speech at the CC gala.

            • Observer

              I was actually asking if you’re Travolta, nasty suppressive J&D-er that I am. Your post made me laugh.

            • Interested

              Can you tell me where I can hear/see this speech made by JT? It didn’t download off the bunker, it was just mentioned. Mthnks

            • Robert Eckert
            • Interested

              Thanks tons

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Just throw in the sci quack quack doctors, and I’m good. But I’m sure there are others here who will want to pile on.

          • Poison Ivy

            Amen sistah.

      • monkeyknickers

        And running the biggest scam ever.

        • Missionary Kid

          They’re betting you’re wrong, and they take a cut of the money as you place your bet. Heads you lose, tails you lose.

      • CraftLass

        And if anyone has the depth of pockets to successfully sue this insanely wealthy cult, it’s the insurance companies! Not to mention some of the best lawyers around. A whole different ballgame, Scn is going from Little League to the World Series directly with these suits.

        • Missionary Kid

          Yup. The greed for money through NarCONon, i predict is gonna cost him, big time. He’ll be smart to to settle quickly, because, if he doesn’t, the legal fees alone are gonna hurt. I hope he doesn’t. Unfortunately, all that scammed money is going to go to the insurance companies instead of the poor wretches who lost it to Co$.

          • CraftLass

            Yup. Exactly. Hate the fact that the victims won’t see it, but hate the scam even more. I think this must be the first time I’ve rooted for any insurance company!

            Taking joy in the fact that, if NarCONon loses these insurance cases, it could have far-reaching implications beyond a major payout now. That is an industry that is all about protecting itself. Will anyone work with them ever again if they are proven in court to be so egregiously fraudulent in obtaining their insurance? At the very least, the scrutiny will increase.

            Another bonus may be more coverage in business press of these cases, which can reach audiences who would never read about celebrities or human rights abuses or any of the other topics that get people aware of Scamatology and all its fronts. Business Insider covers quite a few stories, but I suspect more will follow if this isn’t settled quickly. Insurance fraud is always a hot topic.

            Trying not to get my hopes too high, but any of these results would at least be a positive step. Pass the popcorn, please!

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s gonna still take years, but it’s all downhill from here.

  • Observer

    Just watched the video and HOLY CRAP! A hemophiliac in the Sea Org? That’s a recipe for disaster, even without HIV in the mix. I have a relative who is a hemophiliac, and I can’t even begin to describe the suffering he’s endured with proper care. And then to “treat” it with chiropractic claptrap! That alone could cause a bleed.

    I’m so glad Bill Strauss has been able to get proper treatment and is still with us. “Religion” or not, Scientology should be held accountable for its life threatening medical quackery!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Scientology “doctors” should be stripped of their licenses and be forced to join the Sea Org, bilge assignments. And the U.S. lawmakers should at least change the statute laws for cult victims.

      • Eclipse-girl

        any MD worth their licence should not be in Co$

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Whatever field they’re in, criminals, sociopaths, psychopaths, con artists flock to scientology. They can act out their delusions and lust for harm and maiming with no consequences. What’s not to love?

        • WildaBeast

          Any MD worth their license ISN’T in Co$…it’s just that there are a bunch of MDs out there who aren’t even worth the paper the license is printed on.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am grateful for the stuff that Karen and the gang expose. They do great work.

    • Missionary Kid

      IMO, chiropractors are useful for back problems, but when they go outside of that narrow field, it’s all bullshit.
      Health food stores shelves are stocked with nostrums with testimonials from chiropractors, whose opinions are based on, at the best, preliminary theories from small studies that are often proved not true when studied further.
      I have a friend who’s a chiropractor, but he never pulls any of that bullshit.
      I have a deceased cousin, Chuck who was one, and the look of terror on his grandson’s face when chuck suggested the kid needed an “adjustment” made me want to call the authorities for child abuse.

  • Mary_McConnell

    So much win this week for victims and critics of Narconon!! Kudos to all who helped make this happen in Hockley Valley. What a community they have πŸ™‚

    I thought Western World was out of the picture since Narconon of Georgia et al settled in February. Narconon of Georgia was still fighting this??! I guess they thought they would get reimbursed eventually for the amount of the policy. How stupid!

    I just love when incriminating stuff, like Evanston Insurance Companies complaint and this amended complaint from Western World Insurance, gets into the public records system, lol!

    This is how we take the cult down. It’s all about the money for them, so we squeeze shut the income and money flows to Narconon and related groups. Visit http://narcononreviews.net for what is being done, day to day, to alert the public and exes about Narconon

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      and the Super Power scam is on the horizon. The IAS scam should be next. That’s the big fat juicy main meal. That one seems like it would have to be taken on by someone other than an individual victim. I don’t know if attorney generals can enter in, or if it will an investigation of the IRS Commissioner to find out why the IRS isn’t investigating. Plenty of promo where the IAS makes grand claims of where the money is going. All it will take is the right agency, right avenue to pry open those money books. I can almost smell them burning now.

    • WhereIsSHE

      Narconon of Georgia was insured by Western World under what was likely a CGL (Comprehensive General Liability) policy.
      They were defended pursuant to that policy and the settlement money would have come from Western World’s reserve on that policy claim.
      But due to Narconon’s behavior (or MISbehavior) in a)making false/fraudulent statements on its original application for the insurance, and b) in failing to cooperate in the defense of the lawsuit (by making false statements; by failing to produce requested documents, etc), Western World is now suing Narconon (et al) in order to recoup its costs associated with that lawsuit, and –more importantly– in order to get the court to declare that the entire insurance policy is VOID AB INITIO (void–as if it were never written) due to the material misrepresentations made at the time the policy was applied for (which would mean that there would be NO COVERAGE for NNGA for ANY AND ALL CLAIMS made under the policy, and not just in the instant case).

      • aquaclara

        Great comments and explanation, WhereIsSHE! That NO Coverage – oooh. Narconon would have to dig deep into their pockets to pay for their costs, the costs of two insurance companies and much more (like all the other claims that will come in, too.).
        The court calendar is starting to look a wee bit crowded this fall, eh?

        • WhereIsSHE

          Precisely=)

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          The thing is, narconon probably has no money of it’s own. I would guess it all has gone uplines to A.B.L.E. and thence to RTC, except for very small reserves.

          The insurance company could easily pierce the corporate veil and go after the whole org board to recover their money.

          • aquaclara

            I’m counting on this very thing. Insurance PIs are excellent at snooping out the real story….

      • BananaSplits8

        I’m not versed in legalese but I hope my question is clear enough:

        If a judge finds the insurance policy as void ab initio, could any review or legal case of Narconon’s business practices be evaluated as if they never had insurance as well?

        • WhereIsSHE

          A court’s finding that the Western World LIABILITY POLICY is void ab initio would mean that the insurance policy was void such that Western World would have no obligation to provide coverage and/or a defense to NNGA for the duration of the policy period and for whatever types of claims the policy covers.

          Never having seen the policy, I can only comment that it likely insured NNGA against claims having to do with standard tort liability such as negligence (in this case, leading to wrongful death).

          Not sure where your question is going, but let me make a guess and you can tell me if I am heading in the right or wrong direction.
          Are you wondering if this could effect NNGA’s licensing, because they are required by statute to be insured against liability in order to operate?

          Sorry, but the term “business practices” is a bit vague.
          If I am on the right path, we will have to consult other lawyers here who are more familiar with statutory/regulatory compliance matters.

          • BananaSplits8

            Partly yes. However, going forward I think NNGA’s licensing is shot to hell whether they’re insured or not. I was thinking more along the lines of, if a retroactive judgment cancels the insurance policy ab initio, could the licensing bureau impose a retroactive fine for operating without mandated insurance?

            My thinking is likely not, but I wanted to ask the question and hope for another hornet’s nest of hurt.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Good, so I was commenting about your concern.

              I don’t know that they are required to carry outside insurance coverage. Do you?

              I know that physicians are required to carry minumum professional liability insurance coverage in several states (here in PA, included).

              Not sure about facilities such as NNGA.

              Many corporations I have represented are self-insured, for example (meaning they cover their own costs of defense and settlement/judgments, attorneys fees, etc.), but they have the means to do so. Most businesses carry liability insurance through a carrier.

              I have never represented a drug rehab facility (and certainly never a cult recruitment center masquerading as a drug treatment facility), but all of the hospitals I have represented have always maintained comprehensive liability policies (and umbrella coverage), and none has ever made a material and fraudulent representation on an insurance application nor has any ever failed to properly cooperate in the defense of litigation matters, and this is the first time I have seen a court strike a party’s entire Answer to the Complaint for failure to answer routine discovery requests.

              Add to that the alteration of documents, witnesses lying under oath, etc.

              You’ve got your hornet’s nest already.

  • Mary_McConnell

    I cried watching Karen’s video about Bill Strauss. So glad he got out, got appropriate medical care and is alive and well!

  • Shannon

    Bill’s story makes me want to physically vomit. I wish there was someone who could be put in jail for this… I hope the people responsible for this have gotten out of the cult and carry this guilt everyday…

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You can go to the Indie sites and get promo for cancer cures with auditing and chiropractors and such. Even today. Even Despite many of them have had family or at least many, many friends or fellow sci’s that have died too young from it.

      • Shannon

        Ugh don’t tell me that. Back in your hole please! Was there some LRH writing on it or something?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hubbard was Doctor Quack, originator and thinker upper of quackery. The Indies are using Hubbard’s “magic cures”. And some still like the alternative to real medicine too. Chriopractor offices today have married up with other crackers…cosmetic (need permanent eyebrows or a better butt?), a whole product line of crackers in a bisquit or liquid form, machines that are not quite at the Super Power level yet, but getting closer every day. It’s a multibillion dollar business. I think it’s for the baby boomers who are in denial. I’m not positive that is the main target market, but many look like they just jumped off the country club tennis courts.

          • Shannon

            I’ve just found a couple of Indie sites, didn’t realize it was so extensive! This must be explored tomorrow, I need to go to sleep so I can wake up early. Goodnight!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              iScientology. There is enough there to keep you busy for weeks.

      • WhereIsSHE

        AUDITING and CHIROPRACTORS????????

        WTF.

        OK… everybody DUCK (because my HEAD is about to EXPLODE)

        I’m sorry.

        These people are just as pathetic as the ones they left behind on the inside. Maybe even more, since there is nothing to stop them from educating themselves about proper medical care.

        But I guess they just can’t help themselves to take easy advantage of others in order to make money for and through their web sites.

        Deduct another 1000 points for “the most ethical people on the planet”.

        • Captain Howdy

          Yes, scientology and chiropratic are both provable JUNK Science

          P.S- And WIS so is acupuncture and all of the Chinese herbal medicine voodoo that is almost single handily wiping out the world’s wildlife population

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQb8FK2PM6Y

          • WhereIsSHE

            Whoa!
            I am with you, 100%.
            I believe in medical science.
            I resorted to trying acupuncture a few times, many years ago, when I was suffering from severe sciatica and medical science couldn’t help me (other than the surgeon’s suggestion to a) do more “core work”–which was just not possible!, and b) have my husband put TAPE on my back so I would sense it if I was slouching and then correct my posture). No surgical options for me, but not great conservative treatment methods either.
            I was feeling a little desparate, and was racing mountain bikes competitively at that time. The long climbs and the bigger drops were killing me, so I took the advice of an elite (pro) racer and checked it out. (OK– I was feeling a LOT desparate!)
            While it didn’t help with the sciatica, I definitely had an endorphin rush, which was delicious, as they tend to be. (I think I posted about endorphin rushes a little ways back here, and mentioned acupuncture in the process–and I’m guessing this is what you are referring to here.)
            And, for the record, I refused the herbal crap that the acupuncturist tried to “presribe” me, much to her displeasure.
            That is the only exposure I have had to quackery, and I guess I should have made that clear in that other thread.

            • WhereIsSHE

              I should add, though, that many major, traditional hospitals have added “alternative” and/or “complimentary” practices to their offerings for patients who choose to avail themselves of it, and while chiropractors are never included, acupuncurists often are.

              The NYT detailed the findings of the most comprehensive scientific study on acupuncture which found that it can be effective in treating chronic pain, etc.

              http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/acupuncture-provides-true-pain-relief-in-study/

              “The researchers, who published their results in Archives of Internal Medicine, found that acupuncture outperformed sham treatments and standard care when used by people suffering from osteoarthritis, migraines and chronic back, neck and shoulder pain.

              β€œThis has been a controversial subject for a long time,” said Dr. Andrew J. Vickers, attending research methodologist at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and the lead author of the study. β€œBut when you try to answer the question the right way, as we did, you get very clear answers.

              β€œWe think there’s firm evidence supporting acupuncture for the treatment of chronic pain.”

            • WildaBeast

              This is 100% my own opinion and I don’t expect anyone to share it, but I think one of the things about modern Western science and medicine is that it’s gotten to a point where, if it can’t explain why something works, it tends to go to a default position of “This doesn’t really work, it’s just a placebo effect/some other self-delusion”. I like to understand why things work myself. But 500 years ago we had no damn clue why gravity worked, either. Lots of people didn’t think there was such a force. We still stuck to the planet’s surface, though – it worked, even though we didn’t get why. I suspect that some of the effects of acupuncture and other alternative therapies are like that. Eventually we will figure out why they work. The only difficulty is that we have no way of knowing in advance which we will come to understand, and which will be proven to be placebo effects – except by doing good solid empirical testing, and saying, “We see this effect over and over, we just don’t get why. Let’s try to figure it out.”

            • Captain Howdy

              Unfortunately we have a population of 7 billion plus and the planet itself is rapidly running out of time so this idea of “what will they discover down the road ” is fruitless science fiction.

            • CraftLass

              That’s precisely why there are studies to figure that out happening all over the world right now. Western science and medicine is spending a fortune to try to explore these things. Studies take time, though, and so far only preliminary studies can be published in many areas because you need to see results over years. At least, from what I have seen and read and understand.

              It usually begins with small studies to see if there is more than anecdotal evidence that these things actually work at all. If a therapy passes that test it goes on to be studied more deeply in more controlled conditions. No one is going to spend for a large long-term study without evidence that there is a good reason to do it.

              The worry is that, while we work to figure out these answers, people are being convinced to eschew all Western medicine in favor of things that are unproven or have even been proven to not work already in clinical studies. This often leads to worse pain and even death from things we actually DO know how to treat effectively.

              Looking at that stuff as “complimentary”, to me, is less dangerous as long as you are consulting with an MD who knows your case well. It’s the complete rejection of science in favor of faith (not talking just religious faith here) that is causing the most harm. Many alt-med practitioners insist that their patients reject treatments that are statistically reliable, purely because they come from the “evil machine of medicine and science” and some even absolutely refuse to treat someone who is still seeing a doctor. Throw in religions and cults that ban medicine and you wind up with a lot of needless suffering in this world.

              There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical about Western medicine, to be sure, but they are nothing in comparison to someone recommending that a cancer patient only needs some water and sunshine to cure themselves, as happens every single day, right here in the Western world.

            • WildaBeast

              You said it better than I could have done. Thanks!

            • CraftLass

              Awww, thank YOU! That means a lot. πŸ™‚

            • WhereIsSHE

              Isn’t that what TC recommended to women suffering from post-partum depression?? Vitamins, exercise.
              *eyeroll*
              It’s difficult to exercise sufficiently when you have a newborn on your hands, are severely sleep-deprived, and ARE SUFFERING FROM POST PARTUM DEPRESSION.

            • Captain Howdy

              Yowza! You broads sure love to pontificate.

            • Robert Eckert

              When they should be getting you a sandwich?

            • BananaSplits8

              As they say, if your ideal of a woman’s usefulness is in the kitchen, you’re doing it wrong.

              ;p

            • CraftLass

              And likely to have a life full of disappointment! lol

            • Captain Howdy
            • WhereIsSHE

              HA! You should talk with your attacks on people who happened to enjoy a session or two of acupuncture!
              And…
              Pontificate?
              Someone I love dearly almost died suffering from post partum depression in the weeks following the birth of her happy, healthy baby.
              I am BEYOND GRATEFUL to BIG PHARMA for creating a medication that saved her LIFE, and I would hate to see someone else lose a friend or a sister or a daughter or a mother, all because some idiot cult freak ran his mouth off about QUACKERY.

              Too fucking bad if you find our relevant opinions annoying! Go read something else in the thread!;p

            • Captain Howdy

              I was joking, sorry.

            • CraftLass

              I wish I could give this a million up-votes. No matter how many times I watch that interview I will never get over the urge to throttle him. And I’m exceptionally non-violent.

              Scientologists must have exceptionally expensive urine with all those vitamins they think cure everything but really just run right through their system because they are taken in way-too-large amounts. Of course, with some of them, you would wish they just passed through…

            • CraftLass

              I became a hardcore skeptic due to a somewhat similar story. I fell off a horse as a teen and will suffer chronic pain for life due to it, with a decent chance of winding up without working legs at some point due to complications (actually, I was “supposed” to be unable to walk by now). Thank goodness I’d already read up a bit on chiropractors, because one could very easily paralyze me with my issues. They’ve paralyzed others. They’ve killed people through adjustment, without even getting into some of the weirder things some do. It’s very scary. But conventional medicine could only offer me narcotic painkillers with an option of surgery too dangerous for any doctor to recommend (especially back then, medicine has come a long way in 20 years). I tried herbs, acupuncture, homeopathy, visited an osteopath and naturalist… I was willing to try ANYTHING to stop being the zombie that my painkillers made me and to even just take the edge off my excruciating pain. Not one thing helped, not even an iota or through any sort of placebo effect, no matter how much faith I put in the treatment. The only concrete result? I had less money and less confidence in myself.

              Desperation is a great and terrible motivator.

              I eventually got a new back doctor and learned how to exercise in ways that would help my back. By working with a MEDICAL DOCTOR, I lead a fairly normal life. I even dance! I only take painkillers a few times a year, on the absolute worst days, I don’t even take ibuprofen or naproxen regularly anymore. My pain is managed. That would never, ever, ever have happened if I continued down the “alternative {medicine}” route. I’m so sick of claims that doctors are all about drugging people and cutting them open, all of mine do their best to avoid those unless absolutely necessary. “First, do no harm,” does actually mean something to a good doctor. That one phrase makes all the difference in the world.

              As much as I hate every aspect of the scam that is Scn, the barring of real medicine and doctors worth more than the paper their degree is on is right at the top of things that piss me off. It’s torture and murder. Bad enough that they do that to adults, but raising children in that insanity is so far beyond the pale I don’t even have words…

              Thank goodness that the courts and laws have changed lately when it comes to religious exemptions and children, at least. I wonder if we’ll ever see a Scn case like the Christian fundamentalist ones, where state custody is taken of a child’s medical care because the parent refuses proper treatment? That would be a great way to shed more light on the dangers here.

            • WildaBeast

              CraftLass – I don’t know if I can have empathy, but I sure have sympathy. My wife lives in a similar situation – they said she’d never walk without a cane again, or ride a bike, or lift more than 10lbs. Surgery had a 50-50 chance of paralyzing her. She did the mind-over-matter thing, chucked her cane in a river, put 90lbs on her back and hitchhiked to Newfoundland to prove them wrong. But she still hurts every day and I see how exhausting it is for her.
              I’m so happy for you that you found a good solid doctor who’s been able to help you manage your pain to such a great extent. It gives me hope that, once we have a few things taken care of at our end, my wife will be able to find someone who can do something similar for her.
              Thanks for sharing.

            • CraftLass

              Thank you so much! Honestly, I think it’s sometimes even harder for people like you, who love people like me and have to watch helplessly. Whenever my back has an episode I find myself comforting my partner more than the other way around, I can’t take the pain in his face that my pain causes! lol Ahhh, humans! We are endlessly weird and interesting.

              Your wife does sound a lot like me. I remember clearly waking up one day and saying, “No more.” I was on a path of pure willpower over pain when I herniated a disk in my back (yes, really. I’ve broken my back, sprained it, strained it, tore muscles, herniated the same disk twice – basically destroyed it 4 times over now) and that lead to my current doctor. He’s extremely open to new ideas and actually researches all kinds of therapies himself, even ones with scant evidence of working, to make sure that he gives the best care possible. His mission in life is to find the best ways to prevent less-than-absolutely-necessary back surgery, even though he is a certified surgeon himself, because back surgery is always a bit more dangerous than most. I wish everyone had a doctor like that!

              I highly recommend the book “Back Rx” by Dr. Vijay Vad. It is all about managing chronic back pain and things you can do right at home, including an exercise routine that is the cornerstone of my ability to move freely. It’s focused on lower back issues, you didn’t mention where your wife’s problems are, but I think it has advice that is helpful to anyone with back pain. Granted, I haven’t re-read it in a long time, but it was a big part of the fact that I’m 37 and just as active as I was before my first accident at age 14, against all odds. πŸ™‚

              Sending huge waves of empathy towards both of you, really hope that she manages to improve even more! *hugs*

            • WildaBeast

              Lower back. 3rd or 4th vetebra from the bottom. I’ll go looking for that book – thanks for the recommendation!
              God, the people here are wonderful! (I keep realizing this as though for the first time…)

            • CraftLass

              Hey, my 4th vertebra is the herniated one! lol The larger problems are further down. “Back Rx” should be able to help a lot in that area. Such common sense notions as getting your abs in better shape so they can make up for your back are far from simple when you have to find different ways to accomplish them so you don’t aggravate your issues, and that book is full of solutions to things like that. Great way to get advice from one of the best docs in the world without having to fly to NYC or pay a whole lot more than the book costs just to get an initial consultation. πŸ˜‰ He also makes frequent appearances on PBS, mostly with advice for arthritis patients, but a lot of his advice applies regardless of back pain cause. Kind of a celeb doctor at this point, and he really knows his stuff and constantly studies to improve and keep up with the latest information.

              I often laugh at the how crazy the tangents that come up in the Bunker can be, but, boy, do I learn a lot on a wealth of subjects here! Yes, the people here are wonderful and it keeps hitting me over and over as well. πŸ™‚

              Sometimes, it’s almost dangerous how nice (and smart and funny) people here are. I have work to do! lol

            • WhereIsSHE

              People here ARE wonderful!!!
              I love the Bunker=)

            • WhereIsSHE

              I feel for you=(!! Chronic, severe pain (or being numbed out by painkillers prescribed to take the edge off) will drive the most rational person to try things that they would otherwse rationally reject.
              So glad you found a good M.D. to help you manage your situation.
              (Also feel for you, because I had a bad throw from one of our horses myself as a child. Not as bad as yours. My foot/ankle –3 pretty severe fractures, but I was lucky I didn’t end up with a broken neck which could easily have happened had I hung on longer.)

              Previous to my back pain/sciatica situation, many years previous, in fact…
              I was sick for the first time in my entire adult life–and it was severe. I thought it was just a cold, then “just the flu”, then…”just mono”…and kept working insane hours, all the while completely deteriorating… until… I was in court on oral argument on a motion one day, and I couldn’t recall my own name when the case was called. We were the only case being heard, so I was already at the defense counsel table… and I could not recall my own name. The judge made a joke– he knew me– and proceeded with the case. I am told that I repeatedly asked him, “If you just tell me which case we are here on, I will happily address the court’s question.” Yeah. It was not a pretty sight. Somehow I made it through, and the judge sent his law clerk over with a note for me to get to a doctor, asap.
              It took me almost 7 weeks to finally find the right M.D. (In fairness… it took several weeks of testing for a definitive diagnosis. First they thought it was post-viral encephalitis…. then they thought it was –insert a whole list of illnesses here–…)
              I am grateful to him to this day, because I got my life back.

              I can’t imagine what someone who is suffering from a serious illness goes through when they are trapped in a cult– or in a group “independent” of the cult, but still practicing the cult quackery and following the cult quackery rules.
              I have only had that one major medical illness in my life, and for me, it was pure hell, even while I had the advantages of the best medical care available.

              Could not agree with you more.
              Disconnection and deprivation of proper medical/psych care are surely at the top of my list.

            • CraftLass

              Wow. That is one of the scariest stories I’ve ever heard! And I once fell asleep and “lost” the next 3 weeks! To be standing in court, completely lost like that… damn. Thank goodness for that judge taking that extra step!

              Our bodies can be so confounding, even for the biggest experts in the world. I’ve baffled some of the best neurologists, it’s a strange experience. I mean, these are the people best-educated, and even they can’t always find answers. Still, I’ll put whatever faith I have into people who study hard over people who put anecdotes above statistics and peer-reviewed evidence.

              Jenna’s account of being the “medical officer” of the Ranch was one of the most chilling parts of her book, IMO. Of all the horrendously irresponsible things she experienced, that… There are no words for how ridiculous it is to put a kid who should be in elementary school into such a position under any circumstances. Sort of sums up their entire attitude towards children, no?

              Major illnesses/injuries are definitely pure hell and I agree with you 100%, can’t imagine how much worse it is when you don’t even have the option of looking for a real solution. Of course, if you have really bought into the idea that doctors are “evil” I guess you don’t see the hopelessness of your own situation. It’s especially sad for those of us who know the pain of a hard-to-find diagnosis to see people who won’t even ever get those answers, let alone the help they need. Just knowing what is making you feel bad is a big step in feeling better, isn’t it? It always has been for me when I was in medical-mystery mode (which has happened 3 times in my life, no relation to my back problems).

              πŸ™

            • WhereIsSHE

              I don’t know what your diagnosis was related to the loss of 3 weeks, but I had similar experiences with my illness. Crazy, right?? And same here. Confounded the neuro experts.
              I could not agree with you more. Go with results from properly designed and run clinical trials, the results of which are accurately calculated and reported, subject to peer review.

              Glad you mentioned Jenna’s book. I’ve been meaning to pick it up, and now I have the proper impetus. Thanks, Lass.

            • CraftLass

              Completely crazy. I never did get a diagnosis, all my issues went away on their own before we got to one. Which is a lot of why I empathize with people who have been spooked and/or tremendously disappointed by similar experiences, and can understand turning to alternatives. I suspect that a lot of appeal of alt-med practitioners, in fact, is that they listen to and validate a person’s natural fears and frustrations with conventional medicine. Someone going through a difficult diagnosis really needs someone to listen like that. It’s always a time of vulnerability.

              So glad I could remind you about Jenna’s book! She’s a wonderful storyteller. Just wish it wasn’t such a sad story she has to tell. I kept having these moments of, “Oh, goodness! This isn’t really fiction! How can this not be fiction?!?!?!” A great example of the Bunker motto in action. Let me know what you think when you’ve read it. πŸ™‚

          • WildaBeast

            Some acupuncture is bullshit, I’m sure. But when I got out of rehab and was white-knuckling it, acupuncture (at a few points on both ears) was offered free for graduates of my program – delivered by nurses, in a hospital. It was unbelievably helpful to me. It didn’t stop my brain from being crazy, but it stopped the sick-to-my-stomach aspect of my cravings for a couple of days at a time. The same is true of chiropractic work. My wife has a broken back (got hit by a car while working as a bike courier) and for awhile we were able to afford chiropractic treatment on a semi-regular basis for her. Her pain levels went down, she regained range of motion, and the tests showed that her muscles were starting to fire in the proper order again. The big issues with chiropractic work that I see are that a) it is misused a lot and treated as a cure-all, which it just isn’t; b) a lot of people who shouldn’t be doing it, are, and they hurt people permanently, and c) it does wear off after a few months and then you have to keep going back a few times a year to keep the effects going.

            • Captain Howdy

              Watch the video. Do the research. Scientologists KNOW for a fact that auditing physically helped them. It’s all in their minds,

            • WildaBeast

              Even if all acupuncture does is deliver an endorphin rush, that’s bloody perfect for someone white-knuckling to stay off crack cocaine. Besides, I went in thinking it was bullshit, but it was free and a 15-minute walk so why the hell not try it, just to take up time in my day – and found it had an effect even when I didn’t think it would. I don’t necessarily accept any of the philosophy around why it’s supposed to have an effect – chi points and such – but when I go into something thinking, “What a load of bull!” and it actually helps, I tend to discount the potential for a placebo effect to kick in.
              Either way, my concern is more that these professions are unregulated in my province, and thus it’s very easy for them to be practiced in unsafe ways (reusing the needles, for example), and for scam artists to represent themselves as reputable practitioners. If the scams stop and people realize it doesn’t work, the professions will be unprofitable and no longer practiced.
              I know I started this debate, but I don’t really want to carry it much farther. I respect your opinion and your right to it, and I respect your intelligence enough that I’m sure you haven’t based it on airy-fairy nothings. I share some of your concerns about the two practices as well. Can we agree to leave it there?

            • Mrs Libnish

              A few times a year? More like 1 time a month at least. I loved it, it did wonders for me but I got sick of wasting my time in her waiting room. Always behind schedule….

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          just One of the reasons I Just Say No to the Indies concept as “not dangerous”. Baloney. And don’t even get me started about the kids being run through sec checks, “ethics” and Purif’s.

          • WildaBeast

            Ugh, the indies are still running fucking sec checks?! What the hell is wrong with these folks? Isn’t that a fair chunk of what they were trying to get AWAY from???

            • Mooser

              “Isn’t that a fair chunk of what they were trying to get AWAY from???”

              What they were trying to get away from was sending a bunch of the money on up the line.

            • WildaBeast

              Well, yes, that first and foremost. But if you’re not charging people for the tech, if you’re giving free access to the materials, if there isn’t a hierarchy you have to be 100% loyal to, what the hell is there to sec-check anyone ABOUT?!

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Are you saying that the Indies are doing this to kids? This is the first time I have heard this suggested.

  • Marie Claire Wolf

    How can I describe what this video has made me feel, profound sadness, despair, red-hot anger, and overall desire to see this greedy beast of a cult disappear off the face of the earth.
    To Bill, know that sharing your story is an important contribution to ending this madness.
    Stay strong.
    Karen, AGP, J. Swit
    Thank you so very much again.

    • Poison Ivy

      Can’t say it better, Marie.

    • Robert Eckert

      I know. After the saddening-to-the-gut story of Manuela the dancer, we get another? We already need a Sunday Funnies to joke and degrade about, and we’re only halfway through the week!

    • BananaSplits8

      I second that.

      You’d think the cos only has a limited number of ways to prove how loathsome they are and voilΓ , they figure out infinite ways to do so.

  • Krew13
  • Cheryl

    I have a nephew who is a haemophiliac, he got hepatitis C from a blood transfusion. It just beggars belief that a chiropractor would be used to treat HIV. He needs to be charged with fraud or something, I guess he’s not a proper doctor so couldn’t be struck off or anything. Just feel very sad that people are being treated this way.

    • WildaBeast

      I am so sorry for your nephew. Has he been able to go on Interferon or…damn, it’s a new treatment for Hep C, and I can’t remember the name of it. Interferon SUCKS, and it takes about a year to go through the treatment, but it has about an 80% cure rate. I was infected with it for a few years, but was one of the VERY lucky 15% or so who manage to get rid of it on their own without treatment.
      I hope he’s able to get on a treatment program…it doesn’t have to be a lifelong disease, and especially for those who get it through transfusions, treatment should be made immediately available.

      • Cheryl

        Yes he got treatment in the UK,he’s clear of it now thankfully, he was only 14 when he got it but they picked up on it fairly quickly.

        • WildaBeast

          Glad to hear it, Cheryl. It’s no damn fun to live with and to get it from a transfusion is unforgivably slipshod practice on the part of whatever organization it is that manages blood donations in the UK. The NHO? Or some other organization?

  • USA MRIID

    “Sued by insurers” and the crook’s fraudulent “NarCONon” scam is hopefully being indicted in the United States for some of their core frauds. Love it. Could not happen to a nicer organized crime syndicate.

  • Satansthetan

    “During the sentencing hearing, Judge Michael Russo told Castro there was no place in the world for people who enslave others.”
    Hmmm!!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Sounds like a judge who should be hearing the practices of the cult.

  • Aslansown

    That video makes me so angry. The only thing that wasn’t heartbreaking was at the end watching DM in the front row of a group singing “We Stand Tall.”

    • Cheryl

      Do Scientologists understand irony?

      • Aslansown

        I’m guessing no.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        They do, but they don’t believe it actually exists.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I started to count how many I could see in that tracking shot that have since left and spoken out against the {church}. Mark Fisher, Mike Rinder…

      • Robert Eckert

        The version with subtitles identifying as many faces as they could:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyNh1j3dsp8

        • BananaSplits8

          Yeabut it’s already pretty dated (uploaded in 2011) and concentrates on the front row.

          A blew-count for this pic would be interesting as well

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Is this one of those photos like the Russian ones from the cold war where people kept disappearing from the photo?

            • Robert Eckert

              This is the famous picture of Trotsky, Stalin, Kamenev, and Zinoviev signing the Soviet Constitution; er, I mean, Stalin, Kamenev, and Zinoviev signing the Soviet Constitution; or rather Stalin and Kamenev signing the Soviet Constitution; since as you know Stalin alone created the Soviet Constitution:

              http://www.brainpickings.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/errolmorris2.jpg

  • Cheryl

    On a lighter note, had a good cry after watching the video, and could do with some light relief. My friend is studying psychology and sent me the picture below. My question is, What would be on the Scientologist’s door?

    • Eclipse-girl

      You must have cash before you can enter?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • Graham

      “Abandon hope all ye who enter here”?

      Or, knowing $camatology’s regular use of words and phrases to mean the exact opposite of what is actually the truth, they might co-opt the Nazi’s vile, sick, cynical slogan from the entrance to concentration camps : Arbeit Macht Frei.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Excellent!

    • Mark

      “Touch the door”
      “Thank-you”
      “Touch the door”
      Thank-you”
      [Repeat ad nauseam]

      • Eclipse-girl

        Door, open
        Thank you
        Door, close
        Thank you

        • Mark

          Oh no – opening the door comes after the “touching the handle” and “turning the handle” TRs at another $1,000 per pop!

          • Eclipse-girl

            so would I be sec checked for skipping steps?

            • WildaBeast

              Errrrm I dunno, but you’d sure flunk the TR and have to pay up another few grand to redo it…

            • Mark

              But of course – you might be harbouring suppressive thoughts about the COB-approved doorknob-design.

            • Robert Eckert

              And for referring to “skipping steps” instead of the approved language “missing gradients”

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            You left out the “Key to Door” course with it’s locksmithing section, history of locks, history of doors, making a working lock in clay, word clearing “key”, “lock” “handle”, “knob”, “latch”, “door”, “frame”, “inside”, “outside”, “open”, “closed” with every definition, usage, antonym, synonym, simile, pronunciation, derivation, colloquialism and slang. Then an ethics interview to reveal any counter-intention on doors or locks or rooms, any disagreements, any black PR on doors or handles or locks, etc., any PTSness to any of that, any connections to people who eschew doors, etc. Then getting off any overts and withholds connected to doors, etc. Then full ethics conditions from the ‘bottom up’ on anything connected to doors. Plus a hefty donation to the IAS ‘doors and locks war chest’.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Oh man, I am never going to get out am i?

            • Mark

              I have a headache now. I’m blowing the org. And you know where you can stick your Freeloader’s Bill πŸ˜‰

    • Robert Eckert

      Visualize yourself on the other side of the door.

    • George Layton

      Please contribute to our fund raiser for the purchase of the door knob.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Beware: this property protected by Furious Attack Homunculus.. (thanks, Observer..)

    • Ruby

      No shirt, no shoes, no wallet…No entry.

    • grundoon

      “YOU MUST KEEP THE DOOR OPEN – IF IT’S ONLY A CRACK.” – LRH ED 70 INT 16 December 1968

      • Cheryl

        Very clever!

  • Xique

    These 2 friends, Scott Campbell and Bill Strauss, have two of the most outrageous stories in connection with Scientology’s SeaOrg and The Freewinds. It’s just sick.

  • GlibWog

    I am going to bed.. Just wanted to drop this picture off of Nancy Cartwright.

    It is not to make fun of her. It is just to show you how Scientology Ages People. Yes, she is 55.. but 5 years ago she looked 35. Today she looks like she is 65 +

    And of course there is the stress of losing Steve Brackett OT VIII to suicide.. sigh.. Just one of many who lost their lives because of this evil evil cult.

    Night all.. see ya later.. Glibby

    • Observer

      Oh, my. She doesn’t look like she’s having much luck with her stated goal of becoming a deity, does she?

    • George Layton

      The miracle of vampiric thetanic auditing.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Bart is not long for this world, it seems.

      With all the power and health that scientology promises to provide, this one, high on the bridge, does not seem to be getting it.

      I’m sure the other members will be told something like: long association with those SP jokers and degraders at “The Simpsons” have degraded her beyond our help. Let that be an example to you.

    • WildaBeast

      Holy shit…the photo didn’t appear for me, so I refreshed…that is NIGHTMARISH. Thank Xenu I don’t remember my dreams, or I’m sure that image would figure prominently in my bad ones.

    • Where’s Shelly?

      Wow, that is true, she looks a lot older than she should!

      • Sherbet

        She looks waaaay older than I do, and she isn’t.

        • Anonymookme

          Holy Shite! She looks way, way older than me, and she’s younger!

          • Robert Eckert

            She’s two years younger than I am.

        • WildaBeast

          She looks like she’s 75 and trying to preserve herself and failing miserably.

    • USA MRIID

      Yikes! Really, she’s just 55? What the bloody fuck happened to her?

    • BananaSplits8

      I swear! This Halloween, I’ll congratulate every witch that comes to my door for her great Nancy Cartwright costume. I’ll double the candy to compensate for their confusion.

      But I’ll know… Iiiiiiiiiiii’ll know….

    • ThetaBara

      Oh, Bart! What’s become of you?
      Guess you’re still not a god.

  • media_lush

    Overseas lulz cup about to runneth over

    The organization, which promotes its strong Hollywood and celebrity ties abroad, is appealing a conviction on charges of “organized fraud.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/french-high-court-rule-scientology-620694

    • Eclipse-girl

      But does “Religious Freedom” allow one to make unscientific claims about vitamins? Does it allow an organization to perpetrate fraud? Co$ will pursue this through the European Court of Human Rights, but no being European how effective is that court? Has Russia allowed the Co$ to establish any Orgs?

      • 0tessa

        The European Court is quite effective, but a bit slow though. But whether it condones breaking the law, while being a religion – I doubt it.

        • Eclipse-girl

          TY. we can hope the court will condemn their practices

      • Mark

        A bas tous les tyrans!

    • Missionary Kid

      The article ends with, “There are an estimated 45,000 Church of Scientology members in France.”
      Guess whose estimate that is. There might be that many in the whole world.

      • CraftLass

        Ha! That’s exactly what jumped out at me, too. Glad I saw your comment first. πŸ™‚

        Lying liars who lie indeed.

    • USA MRIID

      That right there gave me an erection! But the crooks won’t pay up regardless, the victims will have to sue again to force the seizure of the syndicate’s assets.

  • Tim Hallinan

    It’s amazing that we’re so conditioned to Scientology’s evil that we’re not writing about the sheer, conscienceless cruelty of exploiting addicted people. Narconon is a blight on the face of the earth, but behind it is the empire of orcs that’s the current church (I won’t capitalize the word) of Scientology.

  • aquaclara

    This is for David Love and for the incredible residents of Hockley Village, for taking a stand against Scientology. And for all the great people who fight against the abuses of Narconon every day, you ROCK!
    WINNING is so sweet.

  • Sunny Sands

    Tent update: The front fabric panels are on, the back panels are being applied with the use of 2 cherry pickers or elevated work platforms in this pic. Clearwater fire inspection and rescue station No. 45 is the city’s fire department headquarters, and is directly across the street from the front of the tent. If scientology tries to claim attendance higher than the fire marshall allowance for the tent, that would be interesting.

    • Aslansown

      What a monstrosity.

      • Observer

        Fitting for a monstrous cult.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thanks for these updates! Are those side fabric panels as thin as they look from the pic? Hooboy.

      • WildaBeast

        Two words: hurricane season.

      • Sunny Sands

        I think they really are thin, I saw one flapping in the breeze when they were putting it up.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          wow. Now I’m waiting for our next summer storm.

          • Sunny Sands

            One can dream.

    • Mark

      Now it looks like the Black Hole of $cientology inside. I hope you aren’t getting odd looks for lurking in that car-park every day on our behalf.

      • Sunny Sands

        In and out in under 5.

        • ThetaBara

          Sunny, you rock! Thanks for the updates!

    • Aslansown

      Perhaps a local could place a call prior to the event to the Fire Chief (?), Marshall (?) — head fire guy – and ask them what the maximum capacity would be, and if it’s less than 8,000 or 10,000 people or whatever the {church} is claiming will be there, just casually tell him/her that Scientology is claiming x number of people will attend. And then let the TBT know….Just a thought.

      • Missionary Kid

        Fire Marshals are very good at counting crowds.

        In California, a theater group was supposed to put crash bar hardware on the doors on a space they had rented. The fire marshal came in and stopped a show in the middle and closed it down because they hadn’t done it and lied about it. They have police powers in California.

        Co$ will probably comply with hardware requirements, but if they exceed the number of people allowed in a room, the fire marshal usually kicks people out until the limit is met. Politically, that’s a toughie, but judges are supporters of fire marshals.

        • Aslansown

          “…because they hadn’t done it and lied about it.”

          Hmm…. that’s right in Scientology’s wheelhouse.

          • Missionary Kid

            I don’t think they’d lie about something that obvious. They will cheat when authorities aren’t looking.

            • Aslansown

              You’re probably right. I’d love it if they tried and got caught though…

            • Missionary Kid

              The dorms at Big Blue have to be violating fire codes..

      • Snippy_X

        Never mess with the Fire Marshall.

      • USA MRIID

        That’s exactly what I was thinking, these Scientology crooks don’t give a damn about safety codes, they certainly have not even thought about fire safety.

      • MadMaxi

        Tents aren’t very sound proof, and if someone is an EMT, or fire person they might be able to visit the fire station across the street with sound and video equipment to use for “training on crowd estimation and safety””. If the fire station has a general dislike of Co$, I am sure they would love to help a fellow emergency worker.. Wish I still held my EMT cert, darn, would be a worthwhile field trip!

        • Aslansown

          I wish you still had it too!

    • USA MRIID

      Can you tell whether the insane loons have any concern about fire safety? My guess is that the stupid fucks don’t give one shit about the health and safety of their remaining customers.

      • Orglodyte

        Scientology as an organization has never cared about the health or safety of its members. There are endless stories of inexperienced, sleep-deprived Sea Org personnel working in dangerous situations without safety equipment. A fundamental tenet is, “Considerations are senior to mechanics.” Power tools, blue asbestos, fire regulations and even toilet paper are not worthy of consideration when you’re “making it go right.”

        Individual Scientologists do sometimes care about the welfare of others, despite this culture. See Lawrence Woodcraft’s story about the Freewinds.

        • USA MRIID

          That is what I’m worried about, these stupid fucks probably have zero fire suppression equipment lined up for this idiot stunt of theirs. Would not surprise me one bit considering their total disregard for human life.

    • phronsie

      What an eyesore!! Would hate to have that monstrosity in my town. Pheh.

    • MissCandle

      Dear Sunny, Thank you very much for keeping us posted on the progress of the tent installation.

  • Cat Daddy

    “AIDS is an Attitude” Jenna Elfman

    • WildaBeast

      WHAT.
      I’ll aid her in getting a new attitude…with my boot up her ass!
      /rage

      • Eclipse-girl

        I was also shocked and investigated this on the internet. I think is happened in the late 90s, 1998 maybe. A few $cilon-ebrities had donated their autographs to a charity auction for AIDS. When asked why didn’t she put in her autograph she JE said something to the effect of “AIDS is a state of mind.” Much later, in 2009 I think, she claimed she never made such a statement and was at Eltons John’s charity bash.

        • BananaSplits8

          There’s a brief inconclusive snopes message-board discussion about it dating as far back as 2003.

          A little slow on the turnaround, she is.

    • BananaSplits8

      NO!!! Did she really say that?

      Fucking bitch. (Sorry, I’m not self-censoring that one)

      • Cat Daddy

        Actually after revisiting some data she said, “AIDS is a Sate of Mind”

        That is what got her carreer killed in Hollywood

  • USA MRIID

    “Residents could be forgiven for asking themselves, why us?”

    Because fuck you! That’s why. πŸ™‚ These insane Scientology psychopaths look for places where they think the citizens are dimwitted rubes who will buy their obvious frauds. It used to work, but now that there is the Internet, almost everyone knows that Scientology’s “NarCONon” fraud is a fraud.

  • USA MRIID

    β€œI don’t think it would have fit into Donald Blenkarn’s wishes to see it go that way, to Narconon.”

    Plus local citizens would curse his name and blame him for allowing the crime syndicate in, every time the local hospitals had to treat NarCONon victims, every time the police had to be called out, every drug bust at the Scientology office, every dazed and bleeding Scientology victim picked up by cops off the road, it would all be blamed on the guy who allowed the insane crooks to set up their fraud in their town.

    • BananaSplits8

      Because it sounds like such large property, add to that the possibility that residents are probably allowed access to trails, streams for fishing, etc. We just know cos would put an end to that.

      • USA MRIID

        Ah yes, I forgot about that. In fact Google Earth would probably show what the local recreation access is, you are probably correct. In fact the first things the crooks would do is block access to actual citizens.

        • Missionary Kid

          They would need to if they’re going to keep the {students} from smuggling in drugs from the outside.

          • WildaBeast

            NarCONon: the only rehab program that drugs are an improvement over.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m starting a NarCONon file. That’s one of the first.

          • USA MRIID

            Trying to keep narcotics out of their business offices does not seem to be a high priority with them considering the news, civil and criminal indictments, the many arrests and such. They claim they’re “drug free” and yet news reports and lawsuits and criminal indictments show that drug dealing is rampant within Scientology’s NarCONon fraud.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’ve got it right. How’s a person going to get clean if there’s drugs around?

              The whole theory that drugs need to be sweated out of the body after a person is sober is total bullshit. The only time that it helps is when a person is drunk, and the sweating speeds up the evaporation of alcohol.

  • USA MRIID

    “This is a community that perhaps should be an example of what people can
    achieve when they stand together, shoulder to shoulder in battle.”

    Also check out how the citizens of Bowdon, Georgia worked with a.r.s people to get the crooks thrown out of town: http://crackpots.us/bowdon.htm

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    In the years I was being given ‘black scientology’ from 1997 to 2002, I also had many physical problems. One of these were persistent large infected blisters on the bottoms of my feet. I would pop them, clean them an they would slowly heal, but they came back. I had purple scar tissue all over the bottoms.

    I went to Dr. Denk to help me with them. He inspected them and took some swabs. He said they were staph infections and that what I was doing was good. I also told him about the tingling feeling I would often have in my feet.

    He ASKED me if I had diabetes. Asked me. I said I didn’t think so. I didn’t know.

    He did not test me for diabetes. He, as far as I can tell, did not attempt to figure out what was causing the problems with my feet. He just accepted my answer.

    I only found out years later in 2005, after leaving the {church} and getting on medicaid, that I had type II diabetes. Looking back, the symptoms were there, particularly the issues with my feet.

    Grrrrr..

    • Missionary Kid

      You’re lucky you didn’t lose your sight or a limb. Your diet may not have helped, either.

      • Sunny Sands

        Beans and rice are loaded with carbs, which elevate blood sugar levels. Not a good diet for a diabetic.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I know. Michael is lucky he survived. THDNE is right when s/he says Michael has the strength of a bear. I am glad he visits here and explains things to me and other “never ins.” I wish he and others who have blown could get compensated for their misery.

        • Missionary Kid

          As Michael pointed out, the fast food and sodas didn’t help.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Thanks, All! I have medicare now and am doing pretty well managing my health.

        Sunny and MK: I wasn’t in the sea org then. I was working for EarthLink and had put in many hours, 75 to 80 on the clock hours for almost a year when I started and through 1997. Lots of soda, fast food and stress. It took it’s toll and with the black scientology. I had to take medical leave in 2000. I kept going downhill, couldn’t work, sold my house after raping my 401k and moved back to Oregon expecting to die. The money from my house ran out in 2004 and I was going to be homeless. Applied for assistance and that got me on a medical evaluation path and eventually diagnosed with diabetes in addition to lots of other stuff in 2005.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Oh, not in SO then? So Earthlink didn’t provide med insurance? A lot of scientology WISE businesses didn’t a while back, not sure about now.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            ELNK did give me very good medical insurance, but I was a scientologist then. I went to scientologist doctors. The only non-scientologist doctor I went to, (not for the foot issues, fatigue), instantly told me I was severely depressed. Of course, I rejected that.

            • CraftLass

              Oh, Michael! I just want to give you a big hug and a delicious low-carb meal. Thank you for sharing, once again. I have nothing to add to the discussion, but as with so many others, just so glad you are out and open about your experiences and helping people and getting the help you should have had years ago.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              oh jeez. The mind F*ck is so damaging. And the sci “doctors” should still go to hell for exploiting it. Your situation, and all the experiences and years. You probably don’t feel like it some times, but you have the strength of a bear to have survived it at All.

            • aquaclara

              Thank you for sharing the “rest of the story.” More crap behind cult walls that is determined to not just find one’s ruin, but to help it in all ways down the path. That you are still surviving, and holding down the fort here is evidence that you are much stronger than David Miscavige and the entire cult combined.

              There is just so much here that is wrong. Destructive. Evil. I hope you are feeling better, eating better, and thriving…..wishing you all the very best. You deserve it.

        • Observer

          So very ethical of The Most Ethical People on the Planet to try to drive you into a breakdown. Disgusting!

        • Anon!

          I am saddened to hear of your situation. At the same time, encouraged, slightly, as you are better able to manage the needs of your health and welfare.

          If wishes were money I would be wealthy and my wealth would be kept in a safe place, so I could help when I become aware of a need. I.e. when someone leaves $cn and needs money to return to family, like some former SO’s that I know.

          You have my best wishes in all matters.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Thank you very much. I sometimes dream of winning the lottery and using the money to set up a foundation to help ex-sea org and ex-scientology to get medical care, therapy, housing, schooling and jobs.

        • ze moo

          i ran into Earhlink in 96 or so, early in the internet era. They were nothing special, dial up at dial up speeds, just like their mentor AOL. When I found out the connection between CO$ and Earthlink, around 98, I went to a local dial up. DSL and cable hadn’t been invented yet. Earthlink distributed their cds every where, but did not mail them to every resident in the world, like AOL did.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZsNqlY1Avc

        • ThetaBara

          Glad you got out. I remember Earthlink (I was on the Well).

        • Missionary Kid

          Saving the world, but not taking care of their own. At least the JWs and Mormons try to help their members.

          Clams are only valued by Co$ for what they can produce.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I am so glad you are out and have medical care.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Willful negligence, every single one of them. They should all be in jail as far as I’m concerned. Your experience is just one of thousands over many years. All those staff. Half the time you got cal mag (calcium magnesium) as a cure all. The only way staff got real treatment is if it became an emergency and they were taken to now the closest hospital but the ones that would treat indigents. That way the taxpayer paid for it. Just chalk it up to another I and so many others left.

      What kind of human being, much left medical personnel, could do this to another human being, year after year after thousands?

      • Sidney18511

        Walmart runs its business the same way with the taxpayers picking up the tab, in fact when you apply for a job there they include all the paperwork necessary to apply for foodstamps and Medicaid. Walmart is on my shitlist, I haven’t shopped there in over 5 years.

        • Eclipse-girl

          so do most fast food companies.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        I mashed my nose while in the sea org. I was rolling a cart with welding tanks and they toppled. I knew that breaking the oxy tank would be bad so I dove to catch them and be a human cushion. this was in the passageway that lead out to the dumpster by the motorpool entrance. Back then there were misc items stacked there. I caught the tanks, but my face went into a coffee table.

        Pam Buselink (spelling?)(Later it was Loewing) drove me to County and the ER there. X-rays didn’t pick up anything major so they bandaged me. s.o. never paid the bill.

        Years later I tried to pay it, cause I was out and making money, but they couldn’t find the case and returned my check.

        County was almost over in east L.A. from hollywood, but it was where the homeless and indigent went.

    • Sidney18511

      Thank goodness you were able to get on Medicaid. The repubs wet dream has always been to do away with that program and so many others. Let’s hope that they NEVER get in the position of power to do so.

    • Eclipse-girl

      You are very lucky to have survived. We all appreciate what you share with us. TY

  • sugarplumfairy

    Btw, Tony.. “Scientology…Stymied” has such a nice ring to it..

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Absolutely! Alliteration = Awesome!

  • Mark

    Cynically viewed, some insurance companies and Para$citology resemble each other: fleecing people of money for a hypothetical that rarely if ever arises.

  • media_lush

    STAND BACK……. SHE’S GONNA BLOW……!!!!

    • WhereIsSHE

      What an incurable, insufferable narcissist!
      I…I… I…..

      • Spackle Motion

        You just described every single narcissist. They are ALL insufferable and a majority are not treatable.

        • 1subgenius

          Had a psychiatrist tell me once that they had an unwritten policy to take only so many borderline personality/narcissistic personality disorder cases, because after years of treatment, they remained the same, and it was just too frustrating.
          I’ve read some stuff about the risk factors (including abuse and neglect, molestation as a child/incest).that has given me a lot of empathy for them, but no desire to have any contact with them.
          One common feature is that they will throw you under the bus eventually.

          • Eclipse-girl

            totally believe that. to treat a narcissist they have to want to to change. if you want to change, you are not a narcissist.

    • BananaSplits8

      If that isn’t a begging for a handling, I don’t know what is.

    • BananaSplits8

      Last time Tony announced some big news, Leah Remini blew.

      Methinks Ms. Alley is aware of this new scoop.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I think the Bill Strauss video is one of Karen’s most powerful videos yet. Thankfully he survived the arrogant, evil treatment he endured in the Sea Org. I have to believe that the non-medical professional people who carried out the “party line,” and wrote him off for dead, lied to him, and whose actions might very well have killed him, are feeling great remorse if they are out of the cult. Unpopular as this thought may be, I think they too are victims of the cult. When a person’s free will is taken away (here I go again), who is the victim and who is the victimizer? Nonetheless, the chiropractors, other doctors, and the ship’s captain don’t get a free pass if they lose their free will, any more than if they were an alcoholic or a drug addict. They are held to a different standard. A doctor takes an oath to do no harm, and brainwashing doesn’t relieve him/her of that duty. Same with the Captain of a vessel that carries hundreds of lives. Further, according to Bill, other doctors knew what was going on, and they acquiesced to the harm being done to Bill. Those doctors had a duty to report the negligence and breach of duty by their colleagues, but they did nothing. It was a long time ago for Bill, and the time for his bringing a lawsuit is past, probably, but it is still going on for others. Therefore, his story, and others like it should be presented to the California (or other states) Board of Medicine. Others who have been similarly treated also should report what happened to them. If the boards of medicine around the country receive these letters, they will be required to investigate. The law has changed dramatically since Bill Strauss was lied to about his condition, and others were told of his condition by his doctors. If the cult’s doctors are still doing this, they should be investigated, lawsuits for HIPAA violations should be brought, alongside malpractice lawsuits, and these doctors should lose their licenses. If this list of rights is created and published on the Internet and circulated in paper form, over and over and over again, it will sink in.

    On a daily basis, the cult violates so many rights of its members and so many laws it makes my head spin. There should be a document created called something like “The way to freedom, know your rights.” It should list the laws that protect citizens, like HIPAA, child labor laws, wage and hour laws, laws against assault and battery, laws protecting a woman’s right to choose, laws against slavery, anti-discrimination laws, and so on. The naΓ―vetΓ© of the cult members is astonishing-people really don’t know they have rights and they endure brutality and illegal acts against them for years. When they leave, it often takes years before the realize how much their rights were violated, and then it is often too late to bring lawsuits.

    • ThetaBara

      Yes. These Scilon “Doctors” should be held accountable!

  • mook

    48 Hours is doing an episode on Ellie Perkins’ murder next month
    http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20954

    • WhereIsSHE

      From a link in the link above:

      Jeremy Perkins: A Scientology Family Tragedy
      PerkinsTragedy.org

      On March 13, 2003, Jeremy Perkins, a 28 year old untreated schizophrenic, stabbed his mother Elli 77 times. She bled to death on her bedroom floor. Jeremy is currently being held at Rochester Psychiatric Center, having been found not responsible for Elli’s murder by reason of mental disease or defect.

      Perkins, his mother and father, his sister, and her husband are all members of the Church of Scientology, a group that believes modern psychiatric medicine derives from an ancient alien civilization’s plot to drug and enslave humanity. Scientologists like Tom Cruise vehemently and publicly oppose the pharmacological treatment of mental illness. Unfortunately, Scientology’s own brand of therapy, called “auditing”, is worthless.

      Elli Perkins was a senior auditor (counselor) at the Church of Scientology of Buffalo, New York. Her son-in-law, Jeff Carlson, was the Executive Director of that church. Jeremy himself had taken Scientology courses there, and was even flown out to Los Angeles to join Scientology’s paramilitary Sea Organization, although he was promptly sent back home due to his mental problems.

      After consulting a Scientologist osteopath, Dr. Conrad Maulfair, Elli was treating Jeremy with vitamins, which he disliked. Within hours of Elli’s murder, which occurred on L. Ron Hubbard’s birthday, the Church of Scientology initiated a crash cover-up to hide its connections to the case. Jeremy’s family has since “disconnected” from him, per Scientology policy. This web site reveals Scientology’s true role in the death of Elli Perkins and the destruction of Jeremy’s life.

      • Graham

        “After consulting a Scientologist osteopath”. What?! Who sends someone with mental health problems to an osteopath? What kind of osteopath has the arrogance and stupidity to get involved in something so far outside their professional competence (Yes I know- A $cientology one). $camatology- jaw-droppingly stupid.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          The “scientology osteopath” was probably Dr. Donna Alderman. I used to go to her. Actually was ordered to go to her by the ‘Case Supervisor’.

          I knew Donna when she was going to the San Francisco org in 1976. She evidently went to medical school and got her D.O.

          • Graham

            It was Conrad Maulfair according to whereIsSHE’s post above. This guy presumably: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/JeremyPerkins/Maulfair/

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Ah. Donna was practicing in the Glendale area. She got into delivering “prolotherapy”. So, it wasn’t her then.

      • Nevermore

        Bloody bastards.

      • Aslansown

        How sad. I have a sister with schizophrenia that was an honors student at a top university, played piano and sang beautifully, etc., etc., until she had a psychotic episode when she was about 21 and that was the end of “normal” in our family.

        When she is on the correct dosage of the correct medicines, you would never know there was anything wrong. But when she goes off her meds, she is basically homeless and wandering around until the police pick her up and take her to a hospital, where they keep her for a couple of days and the cycle continues. Most of the time we wouldn’t even know where she was. My 80 year old mother now has guadianship and my sister lives in a nursing home (in her 50’s) because that’s the only place where she’ll stay on her meds.

        Every time I hear about them talking about how psych drugs are evil I just want to grab them and show them the before and after of my sister, but I know it wouldn’t do any good.

        • ThetaBara

          I just want to say that I hear you. Auditing doesn’t fix the crazy. Drugs don’t necessarily fix it either, but they sure can help.

        • Sandy

          I have a schizophrenic cousin, who also started exhibiting symptoms in her 20’s. Both of her parents are dead, and her two siblings live on the west coast. We know that she was homeless in Mpls for some time, we think she is now on meds – but who knows … Schizophrenics are famous for not wanting to take their meds.

          • Aslansown

            Until recently I worked in a mental health agency where I learned that 52% of people with schizophrenia have no insight — they literally do not think they are sick. In that sense, very much like Alzheimer’s patients. My sister is one of them, unfortunately.

            • Sandy

              I believe that completely. Mary once asked me once why I was peeking in the windows of her house. And, asked my Mom why a dept store had spies hiding in her curtains. She must be SSA age now, so I hope someone, somewhere is looking out for her.

            • Aslansown

              My sister used to think that the CIA had implanted a chip in her brain, that we were out to get her, etc. It’s a devastating illness.

    • TonyOrtega

      2006, Mook. Yer slippin’.

      I’ve seen that show. It was excellent.

      • Eclipse-girl

        thanks for the recommendation

  • USA MRIID
  • Spackle Motion

    This Dr. Denk guy really sounds like a quack that should have lost his license. Sorry, Widow Denk, I do not mean to offend you personally, but I really don’t see how anyone can justify sending an HIV+ patient to a fucking chiropractor. That goes against all common medical practices and evidence based medicine, not to mention the gross negligence in legal duty. There is no defense here…..none.

    • TheWidowDenk

      No offense taken, personally. However, we don’t really have Dr Denk’s data from the medical perspective. He’s dead, you know.

    • pluvo

      Bill did NOT say that it was Dr Denk who sent him to the chiropractor.

      (See also here the whole story: http://www.scientology-cult.com/freewinds-off-purpose-off-course.html)
      Bill Straass: β€œDr Denk told me I needed to go to the AIDS clinic in LA. However, the Freewinds sent me instead to a chiropractor in Sacramento who was not even a licensed medical doctor.”

      • Spackle Motion

        Got it. Thanks for the clarification, although that’s what I got from the video.

        Other anecdotal stories about Dr. Denk seem to fit into my original opinion, though. See some of the comments below for more details.

  • TonyOrtega

    PROGRAMMING NOTE: We’ve had a Jonny Jacobsen eyewitness report from Paris for most of the day, but we’ve held it up because we have something else big coming this afternoon and wanted to post them together. Should be coming within the hour. Worth the wait, I think.

    • USA MRIID

      πŸ™‚ Awesome! By the way, here’s California’s review of Scientology’s NarCONon:
      http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/at/narcononevaluation.asp

    • Graham

      Thanks Tony. Coming up to 10pm here in the UK and I was going to get an early night. Time for a whisky and a snack. Back in an hour!

    • Nevermore

      Damn, I had just washed my face and brushed my teeth before gong to bed!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        What’s a gong doing in your bed? That might be the source of your problem. See, the Hubbard Data Evaluator Course always comes in handy at moments like this.

        • Nevermore

          LOL – I edited that before your comment appeared!

    • Spackle Motion

      Good to know, thanks.

      Completely off topic, but I had a very strange Tony Ortega/Bunker dream last night where you came to LA and were working on a story that I somehow got involved with (probably a residual thought pattern from the Intervention story). You were solving some mystery related to a Sci-celebrity.

      It was a great dream because I finally stepped out from being a couch critic to one that actually did something. Maybe one day. You looked pretty snazzy in a black Gucci suit, I must say!

      I need to cut down on my Internet habit, I think.

      • TonyOrtega

        That was me using my OT powers. And now I know what color your patio furniture is.

        • Robert Eckert

          Snickersnort!

        • Spackle Motion

          Oh ya? Well, I have my own bunker cat with her own OT powerz and she’s sending secret messages to your bunker cats as I type this. Don’t be surprised if your cats start chasing phantom body thetans around the bunker. My cat is OT VII and does solo NOTS, which explains why she spends so much time by herself in her cat tree. My cat is quite the big being.

          • Eclipse-girl

            My female cat is big too. She eats all the food and the 17 yr old male is skinny. Our daughter now thinks the female cat is as big as a planet.

      • ThetaBara

        Spack, you DO do something!
        Speaking out is doing something. Disseminating! It all counts. πŸ™‚

    • Robert Eckert

      Excellent! When I saw the news of the French ruling I was wondering what Jonny would have to say about it.

      • TonyOrtega

        No ruling, just a hearing. Ruling not coming until Oct 16.

        • Robert Eckert

          Ah oui.

    • BananaSplits8

      Well… there goes supper.

    • NL Girl

      Only 7pm in NL, Canada…. I’m new & learning lots from your blog. Became interested when I read how Leah Remini issued the missing persons report for David Miscavige’s wife (he sounds like a treat) – extremely interesting!

      • TonyOrtega

        That was a very popular story. We’re very fortunate to have folks here who have been with us for some doozies over the years. The Clears who were with us for the Top 25 People Crippling Scientology (the original), for example, and the OT VIIIs who’ve been with us since Sympathy for the Devil and Double Crossed. And if anyone says they’ve been around since Hush, Hush Sweet Charlatan, damn their lyin’ eyes.

        • TonyOrtega

          Sorry, this waiting is making me goofy.

          • aquaclara

            I think we need an oldies catch-up anyway. That has to be one of your best headlines ever…..!

            • TonyOrtega

              All the credit to my original editor, Jeremy Voas, who was a master at headlines.

            • aquaclara

              It is definitely an art. You’ve learned from a master.

          • BananaSplits8

            “Sorry, this waiting is making me goofy.”

            Observer, please to have this captioned over Aragorn’s-substituted-with-Tony’s head moments before the gates of Mount Doom open.

            πŸ˜€

        • Aslansown

          Immediately googling Hush, Hush Sweet Charlatan

    • Artoo45

      I’ve never read a post here and thought, “meh . . .”. News from the Bunker is always worth the wait.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      so you are just sitting there with your finger on the button? πŸ™‚

      • TonyOrtega

        No, I wouldn’t do that to you. Sitting here waiting for some major info that’s supposed to come through soon. Not sure what the holdup is.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          No, No… the button image works for me!!!

    • NeverIn

      MORE big news? Scientology really is the gift that keeps on giving… to investigative reporters and their hungry readers.

  • USA MRIID

    State of California evaluates Scientology’s NarCONon fraud:
    http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/at/narcononevaluation.asp

  • AntoineDoinel

    Steamroller! Steamroller!

  • aquaclara

    SIGN PETITION HERE at THIS LINK:
    https://www.change.org/en-CA/petiti…-status-exemptions-of-scientology-in-quebec-2

    While we are all holding our collective breath for the next post, please consider signing the petition here for the revocation of the tax exemption in Quebec. Only takes a minute……

    • Nevermore

      Link’s not working – says it can’t find what I’m looking for. Story of my life…

      • aquaclara

        nope; my own damn fault for not checking the link. It works now! The petition takes all signers, not just Canadians or Quebec residents……

        • Graham

          Still not working for me. Perhaps because I’m in the UK?

          • aquaclara

            I don’t know. It works for me. Here’s something that might work. Try googling change.org. Once you are there, if you put in Scientology Quebec in their search box, see what comes up for you. It shows up for me.

    • Eclipse-girl

      It just worked for me.

      • aquaclara

        Yeah!!

    • Intelligenceplus

      Thank you so very much for posting this Petition Link <3

      • aquaclara

        You’re welcome! It feels good to help, doesn’t it??!!

    • tetloj

      always wondered….do you think the recipients would give a damn about overseas people signing these things?

      • aquaclara

        Pure speculation here, but if they will accept my signature, then perhaps it is open to other counties, states,,provinces, countries, etc.

        Fighting Scientology has no boundaries….

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    While we’re waiting, I hope Someone will be able to leak the Questionnaire that Super Power attendees need to fill out to get their mandatory I.D. Badge that must be worn to get into the …tent. I’ll be that would be thread worthy. Questions like: Have you ever read a post on the Underground Bunker….on purpose? Are you hading any frocks in your closet?

  • media_lush

    a little soupΓ§on for whilst we’re waiting

    • Nevermore

      Looking forward to the day when Krustie tries her bullying tactics on someone who just tells her to eff off!

    • media_lush

      …. and the lulz are hilarious with this one…. [can you imagine Posh and Tommy Girl on facetime?]

      • Nevermore

        LOL – I heard ages ago that Posh might well still be in touch with Katie, and that even before the divorce, she basically froze Tommy Girl out because he started trying to persuade her and Mr B to give $ciloonery a try.

    • Jgg2012

      Kirstie’s latest tweet says she is “perplexed by some things.” I wonder what? Like why people think she is angry at Leah?

  • TonyOrtega

    Complications, complications. I’m going to post Jonny’s report, which I should have earlier anyway. The big bomb will have to wait until the morning, and I sincerely apologize for teasing it when I didn’t know it was going to get held up. Such is the nature of gathering information, unfortunately.

  • i-Betty

    Oh, Bill…I’m desperately sorry this happened to you. Life is sometimes so damn cruel.

  • California

    One thing of note as we watch the passing of the Narconon fraud is that people involved with both carrying out the fraud (including the involvement with public education) and OSA actions such as SF Org Jeff Quiros and San Rafael’s Karen deLise have so far not been brought to justice and it is more than time for all of those involved to be brought to some kind of accountability.

    Monique Rathbun is doing the right thing, in my mind, with the TRO and Injunction for the situation that she is in being married to Marty Rathbun and therefore being targeted by OSA, etc., for years. It is more than time that some of the other Narconon plus OSA folk be halted by some mechanism, as well.

    Surely DM has noted that Jeff Quiros and Karen deLise attacking public education folk, from 2002 to the present, brought increased scrutiny to the whole Narconon fraud. Karen’s skill is in getting others to do her bidding but we all know who in fact is behaving so badly….. and Jeff and she assisted the good guys very ably by their own bad behavior.

    This is the year of the demise of Narconon Drug Education and Drug Rehabilitation. I am sure other insurance companies are taking a hard look at what is going on and will make the prudent decision to sue for fraud and/or pull out completely.

  • richelieu jr

    I just was watching a documentary on Scientology and the Law on YouTube ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vleJvivoFnA ) and saw Karin Pouw (stye misspelled her name!) speak at a gala on the rue St HonorΓ©..

    Her French is really, really good! Where does she come from?

    • Jgg2012

      Pouw is French; her husband was Dutch.

      • richelieu jr

        There you go Jgg2012, that would explain it; THe woman talking sounds french to me (and I a pretty god judge!)

        • Mooser

          I just don’t get it. I mean, French people are people, aren’t they? Then why don’t they talk like people?

          • richelieu jr

            Ha!

  • Jeb Burton

    Tony, great story on Narconon. But what got my attention, Bob and Doug Mckenzie. Brought back memories of the greatest late night sketch comedy show, SCTV. Now I got to go to you tube, and watch some of the funniest stuff ever. Thanks.

  • dagobarbz

    If you can get even one person looking at Narconon when it oozes into town, we know that word will spread. They tried to slither into a small Georgia town, Bowden. They told the locals they had the support of Concerned Black Clergy in Atlanta. I wrote them. Guess what; not only had they never heard of Narconon, they don’t endorse ANY drug rehab program! J. Pilkonis was the reporter in the local paper who covered the whole thing. It was a crazy story, but the upshot was the cult abandoned Bowden in favor of their current place. The good folks of Bowden have no idea what they dodged when Narconon moved on…like Sauron’s roving eye…

  • BlueJene

    I stumbled upon a book by an ex-scientologist a few months ago, and my jaw actually dropped at some of the things I was reading! I’m now reading Janet Reitmans book (a well-written, engrossing account of the cult and the horrible things they are involved in). I have lurked here many times as well. It’s relieving to know that there is a sane place to regroup after trudging through the muck that is scientology! My first post btw…hello all!!

    • monkeyknickers

      Totally crazy isn’t it?!

      Welcome.

      • BlueJene

        Thank you. I had heard of this cult in passing, but what I’ve read the last few days makes me wonder how they’ve gotten away with what they have for so long. I mean, haven’t they ever been prosecuted for holding someone against their will?? I know that most are brainwashed, but someone has to have been held and went to police with some kind of proof!

        • BlueJene

          oops, I completely forgot that I had posted a few weeks ago! lol It’s been a busy past few weeks πŸ™‚

        • CraftLass

          I think we all go through that stage, us never-ins who find our way here. Shocking, isn’t it, what they’ve gotten away with? And you’re probably only really scratching the surface even with excellent books. Which was the first book you mentioned, you just said it was by an ex?

          If you’ve been lurking you’ve probably seen the comment: It’s always worse than you think. Prepare yourself, because there are very good reasons we all say that. After about 3 years of reading daily about it I am still constantly surprised by new information, whether new-new or just new-to-me.

          Welcome!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Greetings!

  • Sejanus

    Well finally had to join up in here.
    Have been lurking, reading, studying, pondering this stuff for months and at last I feel decently up to speed on the horror show from Dandy Midgetcabbage & His Superfriends.
    I am so proud that Canada is grinding the Co$ here and doubly pleased that Ontarians are diligent against the Creeping Narconon

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Great to have you here. Makes me feel less like a newbie myself!

  • AnyOldName1

    David Love rocks!

    Colin rocks! Luke rocks! Eric rocks! Bert… Not sure what he does – but Yeah!

    Seriously, everyone who has been contributing to the online “entheta” about Narco-con rocks! Keeping the truth out there helps those who want to fight it. Gives them the ammo they need.

  • Troy MacGyver

    Who writes these awful songs?’ He lolli la,hey loli La,we stand tall” Then you see that shrimp,DM. Was it you Render? Or maybe Karen Black? It has to be the worse album,is it out sc$intologys greatest jingles? Love to play it backwards.” Geeet out yurrrr checka book.. oli aw”