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Our Man in Paris, Jonny Jacobsen, on the Scientology Appeal in France’s Highest Court

Jonny Jacobsen

Jonny Jacobsen

In Paris today, Jonny Jacobsen attended the Scientology hearing before the Cour de Cassation, France’s highest court, which is considering an appeal of the church’s fraud conviction which was upheld last year. He sent us this report…

Scientology’s lawyers argued today in France’s highest court that they did not get a fair trial on appeal, because when the defendants walked out of the proceedings half-way through, the appeal court did not stop proceedings to get them new lawyers.

France’s top court will hand down its ruling on Scientology’s appeals against convictions for organised fraud next month.

After a hearing today that lasted two and three quarter hours — the reading of the various grounds of appeal alone took up 50 minutes — the Cour de Cassation said it would publish its judgment on October 16.

As well as reiterating some arguments they say were unfairly rejected by the appeal court, the movement’s lawyers opened some new lines of attack.

One in particular related to their dramatic exit half-way through last year’s appeal court hearings.

On February 1, 2012, the defendants and their lawyers walked out of the proceedings after six days of procedural arguments, arguing that they were not getting a fair hearing.

They had filed a number of legal challenges in a bid to get their convictions overturned and in each case the appeal court had rejected their arguments.

As soon as last of nine challenges was rejected by the appeal court, Scientology’s lawyers and the defendants quit the courtroom.

In the Cour de Cassation today, a new set of lawyers for Scientology argued that the court of appeal had denied the defendants their full rights.

The court, they argued, should have stopped the proceedings after the walk-out to allow the defendants to hire new lawyers.

Claire Waquet, representing the counter-cult group UNADFI, which had tried and failed to gain plaintiff status in the trial, retorted that this was a bit rich.

It was they, after all, who had taken up so much court time with procedural issues; and it was they who had chosen to stage their walk-out.

Back in 2009, a Paris court convicted two Scientology organisations of organised fraud; a number of Scientology staffers were also convicted on charges ranging from fraud to the illegal practice of pharmacy.

The fraud-related charges were focused on the use of the Personality Test and the use of hard-sell techniques to get ever greater sums of money out of members.

The illegal practice of pharmacy convictions were over the administration of the controversial Purification Rundown progamme, a core element of the Narconon programme.

As soon as the appeal court confirmed the convictions in February 2012, Scientology’s lawyers lodged appeals with the Cour de Cassation.

The criminal chamber of the court heard arguments this afternoon.

If on October 16, it confirms some or all of the convictions, there is a good chance that Scientology will take the case to the European courts.

This is the first time the movement rather than just individual officers have been convicted of these offences and the organisations seems determined not to let these convictions stand.

…….

Also today, at his blog Jonny reviews a new graphic novel about Scientology which was published in France. As always, his thoroughness is amazing. See Jonny’s report here.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on September 4, 2013 at 17:00

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  • Nevermore

    I find myself agreeing with Claire Waquet. They walked out. They were the only persons denying themselves anything, and they only did that because they were losing. I sincerely hope the court upholds the convictions.

    • RMycroft

      I can see why there might be some crossover between Scientology and the Sovereign Citizen/Freeman on the Land types. They both feel that they can ignore the courts at a whim.

  • pronoia

    Everyone hates us, everyone hates us, we’re going to eat some worms!

    • 1subgenius

      Its like committing suicide in self-defense.

      • pronoia

        Which is exactly what they did when they walked out of that courtroom.

    • RMycroft

      Diet of Worms? Which heretic are they planning to condemn?

      • cicely neville

        snickersnort

    • tetloj

      a bit of animal protein to go with the rice and beans

    • Poison Ivy

      My Mom used to sing that to tease me if I was feeling sorry for myself, “Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, guess I’ll go eat worms!” It would always make me laugh, get me singing and snap me out of my pity party!

      • Eclipse-girl

        As I remember the song

        “nobody likes me, everybody hates me, think I’ll eat some worms

        Little itty bitty worms, big fat squishy worms and the kind that squirm”

      • GlibWog

        PI… I just wrote the words Pity Party.. Weird.

        • Poison Ivy

          Synchronicity, baby!

    • DamOTclese2

      I want to know whether anybody can do what these Scientology idiots did. When facing criminal and civil trials, just decide to pack up and walk out, as if that “teaches” them god damned wogs a lesson or two.

  • 1subgenius

    Walking out and then claiming it as an appeal issue is quite like the guy who killed his parents and then plead for mercy because he was an orphan.

    • BananaSplits8

      That’s exactly what it is.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Was thinking of that one too. I have had to deal with someone that popped back up that always ran on the narcissistic curb one minute, and whining victim the next. Whoever he has been manipulating at the moment is the one he suddenly accuses of not being nice or doing something wrong. I forgot how that annoying game was played. I did, however, remember how to end it.

      Is it just me, or all of Miscavige’s legal tactics lately acting out in court like Little Richie Rich?

      • Poison Ivy

        It is NOT you, Hole! This is classic projection, often a manipulation ploy of narcissists but also, sometimes something they’re not even aware of doing!
        It’s like all of Scientology has taken on the Miscavigian (and by default, Hubbardian) “valence.” Even their wog lawyers!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          You mean, a kind of transference process, or do you think Miscavige is now dictating to the lawyers? Hmm, not aware of it. It certainly Seems like that sometimes. But honestly, the lawyers in so many cases are now behaving like Miscavige. This is delicious.

          • Poison Ivy

            Well, the man is a total control freak micro-manager to the MAX. But to have his lawyers in even a foreign court act just like him – it’s pretty amazing.
            The French are terribly arrogant, mais oui…but I think their courts would not take kindly to arrogance being displayed by defendants.

            • DamOTclese2

              Great irony if DM owns major shares in the popcorn industry. πŸ™‚

          • GlibWog

            Hell yes he is dictating to the lawyers Hole.

            The Buck doesn’t stop with HIM… But every decision made is HIS.. You know it..

            • GlibWog

              DownVote?

              Davey is that you? Hi darlin.. Sup? Where’s Shelly?

            • Robert Eckert

              Wow, he removed it already!

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gb_gho1eGM

            • GlibWog

              Yep.. That was fast.. OOOOOOOOh Robert.. That gave me goosebumps..

              ” I Seeee You..” Eeeeeeeeeeery…. Davey I see youuuuuuuuu

      • richelieu jr

        I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Most of Hubbard’s legal legerdermain seems to be based on the ‘I’m Rubber, you’re Glue’ theory of jurisprudence…

        When asked for a statement on this, Scilon spokesperson Karin ‘Pow, you’re gone!’ said:

        “I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i? I know you are, but what am i?”

      • DamOTclese2

        Convicted assholes on the telephone to David: “Sorry, DM, we are still losing the appeal.”
        David to convicted assholes: “I order you to walk out of the court proceedings!”
        Convicted assholes to David: “But sir, that won’t work, they’ll just convict us again!”
        David to convicted assholes: “DO IT! DO IT OR I’LL FUCKING SLAP YOU!!!11 DO EEEET@@@”

      • GlibWog

        Got one in my life too HOLE and it is Freakin Exhausting..I keep saying and thinking that I’m done with it..

        But then I think of her ( daughter) and feel guilty because maybe I was too rough when I sent my last E Mail.. but she has done such horrible things to me and my older daughter.. So Frustrating.

        and I always say that I have taken the word Guilt out of my vocabulary

        but when you are a person with character you will have a conscience when you hurt others..Even when they deserve it.

        • Eclipse-girl

          It is VERY VERY hard for a mother to detach from a child. Good friends sib was the Narcissist and their mom never could detach.

          (((HUGS)))

          • GlibWog

            Awww I love Hugs Eclipse.. thank you.. So you know..

            I detach .. .. But then I take it back in my heart sometimes. I mean I a NOT made of stone..

            I do NOT contact her.. and as I said in an earlier thread she took me to court so that I could never see my grandkids .. ( Judge threw it out..)

            I worked in Mental Health all my life .. and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder is the absolute most frustrating.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am coming up with a hypothesis that most people who are intrigued /fascinated / obsessed with $cientology have their own issues (But that is true of almost everyone) We have been damaged, and we have survived that damage

              The issues that we have endured / survived have allowed us to have empathy for victims of this insidious cult. Those victims have been damaged. One of the things they desperately need is empathy NOT JUDGEMENT.

              YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF, AND SUPPORT THE OLDER DAUGHTER.

              it sucks to no end about your grandchildren. For that you get even more (((HUGS)))

              I know you are experienced and all that, but sometime we don’t take care of ourselves. We love you here.

            • GlibWog

              Eclipse.. You know… That is absolutely the best answer you could have given me. Thank you..

              My definition of spirituality is.. Religion is for those trying to stay out of hell and Spirituality are for those that have already been there.

              Your timing is perfect. You know it’s funny you said to take care of myself and my older daughter..

              I have her pictures plastered all over to remind me of that very thing. My other daughter’s pictures are packed away.

              and NEVER ever.. feel like you can’t Knock some sense in me to let me know how truly blessed I am. xo OK this is enough.. Now tears flowing.. I love you too.. Glibby.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Being who I am, my definition of spirituality is a moment when we feel connected with the universe, our world and realize how insignificant we are and how lucky we are to be here.

              I know some may argue with me. Discussion is good.

              Get some sleep. I am glad you are you.

            • GlibWog

              OOOOOh Eclipse.. I love your definition of spirituality too..

              Thank you so very much. I don’t know why I’m feeling so sensitive about everything lately. Just hyper sensitive. And that is OK.. I will give into it.

              I am so happy I found the Bunker… and all of you. Glibby

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Your meanie daughter does not have anything to do with Scientology, does she? Too many stories on here, I get them all mixed up.

            • GlibWog

              Hi L… So many stories is right.. ha..

              Nope… Just a daughter who hasn’t gotten her way. You just don’t tell her NO.. Evah. and I did and now I am dead to her.

              You know I am a big girl.. I can take care of myself, but it’s the Collateral damage she inflicts along the way to those I love.. ; /

              I do feel better gabbin about it here though..

            • aquaclara

              Hope you feel better, Glibby. Your grandchildren are lucky to have you…they must be very special.

            • GlibWog

              Smooches.. Aqua.. sweet of you to say… Of course I am the lucky one.

            • Poison Ivy

              Good hypothesis Eclipse-Girl. I bet everyone here has a deep-seated reason (or confluence of reasons) why this fascinates (and enrages) him or her so much. I know I sure do.

            • GlibWog

              Oh absolutely PI..

        • i-Betty

          Glibby πŸ™ I’m so sorry you’re going through this. You always seem so happy and cheerful, but this must be incredibly tough.

          Love and hugs for you and THDNE xxx

          • GlibWog

            Awwww thanks Betty.. My Grandkids dad’s dad just died. A couple of days ago.. ( their Papa ) and I just hurt for them. I love their Dad.. He’s been hurting because of my daughter and now this.

            It catches up with me at time.. sigh..

            • Casabeca

              Sending you flowers in heart. Hope things get better for you.

            • GlibWog

              Casabeca… Thank you so much… I am so glad that you joined us. I really am. I have fabulous days.. I really do.

              It is just once in a while.. I am already feeling better. I feel the love and kindness coming from the Bunker. xo Glibby

            • Robert Eckert

              When they need love, I am sure they know where to find it.

            • GlibWog

              Awwwwww Robert.. They do.. They do.. I talked to all 3 of them tonight for a very long time.

              I feel so much better. They sound upbeat.. Thank you sweetie..

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      That guy who killed his parents and then claimed orphan status is just as entitled to his bold and daring legal defense as we are in the Church of Scientology.

      We walked out of court in a huff; therefore all charges against us must be dropped.

    • villagedianne

      I just said the same thing before I read your comment. Almost word for word the same.

  • media_lush

    I know the French are arrogant but surely walking out of a court in the middle of proceedings is contempt in anyone’s language.

    • 1subgenius

      And that was obviously what they were trying to convey.
      There are better ways.
      Like Clarence Darrow, who when asked if he was trying to show contempt for the court, replied, “No, your Honor, I’m trying to hide it.”

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Scientology is always suing someone or blaming someone for what they did to themselves.

      • Kitz

        Well of course!!! How can they do anything even remotely wrong….. *eyeroll*

        • Eclipse-girl

          wouldn’t that mean they “pulled it in?”

          • Observer

            Yes, and in this case the Doctrine of Pulling-In is 100% correct.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am trying to learn this stuff. TY for keeping me honest.

            • Observer

              I was doing a simple J&D, but you’re welcome! πŸ™‚

            • RMycroft

              Pulled it in? In this case, they used winches and tow-cables.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              No, NO RMycroft We use Tractor Beams. It’s Tractor Beam tech. No really. I never could quite get the hang of that one.

            • Observer

              omg, is there no end to Hubbard’s ridiculousness? That’s a rhetorical question,

            • Robert Eckert

              We just have to reverse polarity and it will be a repulsor beam!

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkrlJB87AL8

            • DamOTclese2

              Fuck I hate that kid. Jesus, drown him in the toilet already.

            • Robert Eckert

              See? He perfected repulsion! Miscavige could learn a thing or two about being repulsive from Wesley.

        • Poison Ivy

          Les personnes les plus éthiques de la planète.

          • i-Betty

            Foutaise-de-merde!

    • RMycroft

      “Waaaah! We’ll tell the European Court of Human Rights on you!”

      Good thing the French have developed the shrug to an art form.

      • DamOTclese2

        “Ah blow muh nose in yer gen-er-ahl direction, you English pig dog!”

    • Spackle Motion

      Being an asshole in court is strictly reserved for Scientology/Scientologists. It has nothing to do with your country of origin. Besides, the idea that the French are assholes is something that mainly Americans that have never been to France usually spout off ignorantly.

      • DamOTclese2

        I worked in France for a couple of weeks, visited the Castle at Versailles. I learned some French before going but my engineer colleagues did not. When in a cafe I ordered onion soup with a selection of cheese from the menu and did so speaking French, my colleagues merely pointed to the menu.

        The waiter shook his head and said “no no no” and collected the menus and refused to serve us because most of us didn’t speak the language.

        That was kinda assholeish. πŸ™‚

        • RMycroft

          No soup for you!

        • Spackle Motion

          I will agree that French waiters are the exception to my statement above. I also had problems ordering, which is why I subsisted on omelettes avec fromage and McDonalds when I didn’t have my trusty translator with me (a few of my family members speak fluent French).

          I will admit that I became really homesick for American English that trip. Hearing other tourists that I knew were American made my day. I tried to immerse myself in French including watching a wheel of fortune-like game show every day.

          I’ll never forget trying to watch some ‘Friends’ type of sitcom/drama on French television and being very confused by the French subtitles when they were obviously speaking French. It wasn’t until I watched the credits that I realized it was a French Canadian show, and the language differences are so different that subtitles were needed. Very strange.

    • DamOTclese2

      Um, in the United States as well as in France walking out would be considered a surrender.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    Thanks to Jonny for bringing us this story. It sounds like the COS’ grounds for this appeal are tissue-thin. I don’t know anything about the demeanor of French courts, but it seems like the appeals are bound for failure. The fraud convictions will stand, and the cult will continue it’s downhill slide. Excellent!

    • Well, there was a bit more to it than that, but that particular argument really jumped out at me. I’ll try to work up something more detailed at IC in a day or two.

      • i-Betty

        Thank you so much, we really do appreciate it πŸ™‚

        • i-Betty, how could I say no to Tony?

          He’s promised to get me in on the ground floor of the Super-Power building.

          • stanrogers

            I hope you’re getting a cut of the Big Pharma money too.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Hey Stan…good to see you.

            • stanrogers

              Thanks, BTN. We had a wee bout of brain death for a while there (temporary illiteracy β€” have I mentioned before that Parkinson’s really SCOHB???), but it seems I’m back to… well, as normal as I’ve ever been, anyway.

            • If only!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Well we are. Just ask Davey. Of course the checks are late every month….

            • i-Betty

              We receive a cent from Big Pharma for every word we type. You want to get in on it, Jonny. Our pockets are bulging!

            • DamOTclese2

              Free Prozac for everyone! Woo hoo!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Just don’t carry any raw meat in your pockets, Jonny.

            • i-Betty

              Indeed, keep a close eye out for the guard dogs. The toy dogs with monopoly money stuffed in their mouths might just be ours, but you should probably not stroke the ones that drool.

          • Eclipse-girl

            please take movies for those of us who can’t attend. Sneak in and play with all the Sooper Power toys.

          • Poison Ivy

            You are amazing, Jonny – your blog is outstanding and it’s so nice to see you here. Thanks for all you do! Any idea how the French Courts are leaning, or are they as inscrubtable as they seem?

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Of course you and he can sneak in with V for Vendetta masks!

            • Eclipse-girl

              Being snarky , It is a Guy Fawkes mask

            • DamOTclese2

              Some how I think that the French courts would be in favor of people wearing the Guy Fawks mask seeing as how a British pig dog government was the target of the gunpowder treason. πŸ™‚

              “Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!”

            • Robert Eckert

              We definitely need this clip.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY

            • i-Betty

              Quadruple up-vote.

              “You and your silly English kerniggits!”

          • DamOTclese2

            I’m glad Tony dug a tunnel from the Underground Bunker all the way to France so we could get your input on this. Love seeing these Scientology aholes getting served.

      • Eclipse-girl

        For us non europeans, could you also write a bit about this court?

        • Will do: and I’ll try to fill in some of the background from the original and appeal trials in the extended write-up.

          The main thing to retain about the Cour de Cassation is that it deals only with legal arguments, not the facts of the case (a bit like the US Supreme Court, if I’ve understand the set-up there correctly).

          • aquaclara

            Love your blog, Jonny. Thanks for the great reporting. We are, as you know, infinitely interested in all of this….

            • … and far from complacent. Thanks for your support.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, yes… Far from complacent… On any given afternoon, if one listens closely, the cheers and roars can be heard across the continent…. In five languages simultaneously.

              Let us know when you need help, or just a little cheer!!! We’re here….

        • 1subgenius

          Or you could ask Mr. Google in the meantime:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Cassation_(France)

    • Jgg2012

      Mais oui!

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Chocolate Velvet, you make it sound like we in the Church of Scientology are on a fast toboggan ride right over a cliff and straight into Hell.

      Well, that is just not true young lady.

      The fact is that we are shooting ever upwards to amazing new heights like a rocket ship with an endless supply of gasoline and Tang.

      We now have over 300 Ideal Orgs on Pluto and are actively looking for real estate on exoplanets.

      COB is set to open our 1000th Ideal Org on Mars next week and is even now being fitted for the world’s first astronaut tuxedo.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I waved to COB as he flew past on his rocket ship just the other day. I think he said he was on his way to Venus, no wait, a Vegas Bar, but he Could have said Back to Mars. Makes sense now, kind of like back to the future? We’ll miss him a lot, but a big being’s gotta do what big beings do. We are eternally grateful he is gone, I mean he is leaving for his next target.

        http://i41.tinypic.com/e1f2b7.jpg

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Oh dear, OTVIII. That is some pretty far out talk from you! Are you sure there isn’t a gas leak of some kind out there at Int base? Or have you been nipping at David’s single malt? Does David make you say things like that?

        Things really are going downhill fast. You should just blow, OTVIII. You know Chocolate Velvet loves you! I would hate to see you go swirling down the toilet with the big sh… er… being responsible for all these bad decisions. Get out. Now. Just blow, and take everyone else with you!

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          CV, you of all people should know that COB is not satisfied with ruling the world. He wants to rule the entire universe and will do so now that our scientists have solved the problems of interstellar travel.

      • GlibWog

        PPPPPPPPPPsssssssssst Your Fly is open 8

    • DamOTclese2

      Watch the loons create conspiracy articles in their “Freedumb Magazine” about how the French courts are all run by the psychology industry of death now. πŸ™‚

  • i-Betty

    Jonny, thank you so much for your report. Oh how I would love to see these jokers take their case to the European court (of human rights?). Now that would be popcorn time. I might even pop over with my placard for a front row seat.

    • I actually think their chances would be better at the European level, which is where I think this case will end up: but I may be getting ahead of myself…

      • Aslansown

        Oh dear — why do you think their chances would be better?

      • i-Betty

        Because of the stance they took in Russia, Jonny?

  • SoMissDelicious

    I had to bookmark Jonnys blog. I forsee a marathon reading session tonight on the tablet under the covers

    • i-Betty

      Ditto πŸ™‚

    • Unex Skcus

      He’s written many great articles… you may need more than one night πŸ™‚

  • aquaclara

    What an incredible story – thanks, Jonny, for being there today, and coming back with all of this. I hope this case continues to stand up on appeal – and love that everyone there seems to be able to read a scam when they see it.
    The story on Infinite Complacency is significant; once again, we see the power of the cult to suck people in, only to spit them out when they are no longer of use. Worse, the death of Francoise after refusing to go for real treatment for cancer – here is another sad and unnecessary loss of a woman who just wanted to believe in all that Scientology promised. So sad.

  • 1subgenius

    Derail alert: I just did a search of the Clark County jail and found no indication that Devon Campbell Newman
    posted bond.
    Her preliminary exam is 9/9.
    Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      damn, I just did a search of the Clark County jail and found 3 of my missing relatives!

      • 1subgenius

        Fantastic.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I know, huh?
          Damn….more Christmas cards…….

          • Mooser

            Gosh, you’ve given me an idea for a country tune: “I hope I get bailed out for Christmas”!
            It’s a certified heart-string plucker.

      • i-Betty

        You’re too funny for words, Bury πŸ˜›

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Oh, there are words…but most folks don’t use them in polite company.
          Suckers!!!!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Are they the ones who’ve swiped our Big Pharma checks? Someone Must have them.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          No.
          My relatives are not that smart.
          Hence their new addresses!

          • Spackle Motion

            You are cracking me up.

      • Poison Ivy

        Hilarious!

      • DamOTclese2

        What are your crimes? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!?!!!

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Seems to me that the Scientologists in France need to Word Clear “chutzpah.” Or maybe they really, really believe that they have somehow changed reality, and everyone forgets that the situation in which they are presently enmeshed is of their own devising.

    France? I think that’s true of Scientology everywhere…

  • ze moo

    Any ruling by the European Court of Human Rights would have continent wide implications. If scamatology loses, the precedent could encourage other counties to call clam standard operation practices fraud and act against it.

    The ECHR has an odd history relative to the CO$. They have told Russia to stop persecuting the clamatoes, as an act of religious freedom. I am not aware of any other ruling about the cult.

    http://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home

    • Poison Ivy

      Ruh roh. Hope they are not going to stand by the ol’ “Religious Freedom to Defraud Whomever We Want to Defraud” argument.
      Of course, Russia persecutes everyone these days, and they should damn well be told to stop it. I hope that was an isolated ruling.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The Russians are easy to handle if you know whose palms to grease. A little IAS love spread around Moscow and all of our problems in Russia will be gone before you know it.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Wait, you mean Davey’s flying monkeys are also grease monkeys? Well, that’s handy.

        • i-Betty

          Eeeeew, IRS love. Oily!

    • Eclipse-girl

      I asked a similar question earlier today, after MEDIA LUSH gave a link to an article. Otessa responded. She did remark that $cientology could not be banned from Russia. She also did not think that this court would allow illegal , fraudulent behavior even if it is claimed as religious freedom or religious practice.

    • DamOTclese2

      The ECHR is a political entity, the court system is a law enforcement / justice entity. What is relevant is what the judicial system rules, not what politicians’ opinions are.

  • Dean Fox

    So let me get this straight the argument is, we didn’t agree with the rulings so we walked out and that makes the rulings wrong. If I’m ever unfortunate enough to be on the wrong side of the law, I don’t plan to be, I should remember that tactic if it actually works.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I highly doubt that it will. i suspect they hope to argue “religious freedom” in from of the European Court.

      • DamOTclese2

        It will be difficult for the crime syndicate to claim their frauds are protected as “religious freedom” when the tape recordings of the crooks’ telephone taps is played to the court. They were recorded deliberating plotting to swindle as much money from their victims as possible, recorded routinely as part of the criminal wiretap.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      When we walked out of the courtroom, yes, the French should have stopped the proceedings. Then we could have all gone to a nearby sidewalk cafe and settled this thing reasonably over coffee and pastries. But no, the French got on their high horse and started jabbering on in French about pharmacy this and illegal that.

      Well let we in RTC tell you something Mr. Dean Fox: The Purification Rundown works and it helps people!

      • Poison Ivy

        OTVIIIisGrrr8, vos arguments ne sont pas convaincants aujourd’hui.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          i-Betty and Poison Ivy, please stop all of that fancy French talk. It makes you both sound like Psychiatrists and it makes COB nervous.

          • i-Betty

            Ooh, I chuckled so hard my tummy wobbled. I wish I was kidding.Time to cut back on the baking, methinks!

          • Poison Ivy

            COB nervous is just how I like him!

      • i-Betty

        Monsieur Grrr8, RTC est une foutaise-de-merde. BananaSplit said so.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in the Church of Scientology had to walk out of that phony French kangaroo court! What a set up job that whole thing is by European Psychs!

    What happened — and this news is being withheld by the French media — was that during the afternoon break we saw those Frenchy bastards out back of the courthouse sharpening the blade of a big ol’ guillotine! That made we peace-loving Scientologists really nervous because we know all about the French and their love of guillotine tech.

    http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/guillotine3_zps7e1b26a7.jpg

    • 1subgenius

      But wouldn’t a touch assist help with that?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Yes. But it would be extremely messy.

      • DamOTclese2

        Yes, the Touch Assist and some duct tape, we’ll have that Body Thetan infestation cures!

    • i-Betty

      Hur hur πŸ˜›

    • BananaSplits8

      “The Messieurs Psych will not be getting our necks anytime soon!”

      *snaps fingers* foutaise-de-merde!

      Perhaps a lady to help you with your bath?

      • i-Betty

        I adore French. Of course, I can only order wine or an extra plate for the children, but I like to think I do it in a seductive accent.

        Foutaise-de-merde probably doesn’t mean ‘fruity shit’, but I like to think it does.

        • BananaSplits8

          Here’s a compromise:

          No, it doesn’t mean “fruity shit” but you may use it as if it did.

          • i-Betty

            Bah! Don’t make me venture into Babelfish territory….

            Oh. HAHAHA! I love it!

            Please find your translated text below:

            Foutaise-de-merde (French)

            Hogwash-of-shit (English)

            Scientology: A hogwash of shit. The new taglines just keep writing themselves! Banana, I think I love you πŸ˜€

            • Robert Eckert

              foutaise is from foutre which is not quite as rude as “fuck” but has the same sense; “fuck-up” or “screw-up” might be a better rendering than “hogwash”. Richelieu correct me, but by itself I believe it refers to something said or done which is insanely stupid.

            • BananaSplits8

              Foutaise=nonsense

            • Nevermore

              But vas-te faire foutre is ‘go fuck yourself, n’est ce pas?

            • Poison Ivy

              Is foutaise-de-merde a French idiom or slang? It’s been so long since I studied it I don’t know any recent idioms or slang expressions. πŸ™ That’s the fun of learning a language – learning all the cute little expressions that don’t translate exactly.

            • aquaclara

              I can say that in Southern! “Pardon, but just wanted to say few tay day maid, ma’am.”
              Sounds so polite, doesn’t it?

        • Spackle Motion

          I could only order cheese omelettes (omelette avec fromage). I ate a LOT of those.

          And I had to go to McDonalds to get chicken. Ham is over abundant there and chicken is nowhere to be found.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Please.

        We also need a pedicure.

        • BananaSplits8

          We will advise Madame Corday. Let us know when you’re ready.

    • Eclipse-girl

      The guillotine was invented as a more humane way of execution than hanging.
      Isn’t it more humane than being pumped full of drugs? or shot full of electricity?

      Somehow I remember a clip of TC ranting and raving against each of those possibilites

      • Poison Ivy

        Definitely more humane than hanging, which can go wrong if the weight is off. And far, far more humane than its other predecessor, beheading by the axe, or the sword, which was always resulting in botched efforts. However, there is still the strange phenomenon of the head still reacting after it’s been cut off – blinking eyes making eye contact, moving mouth… lots of apocryphal stories. Good creepy stories!! Does the brain realize what has happened in the brief moment before it dies? Hmmmm! If so, that’s pretty inhumane. Personally I’d rather someone shoot me full of something that just puts me to sleep.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Okay, Now you’re worrying me PI. You know this because….research, right, just research…nervously laughing as she steps awayyyy from the monitor.

          • i-Betty

            Lol!

          • Poison Ivy

            Ha ha! Yes, in fact another thing I learned during my time in the wonderful world of documentary research!

        • Robert Eckert

          Reminds me of an old multiple-choice question, designed to test if you understand how the world works.

          After Marie Antoinette was guillotined, a man picked up her head and slapped her. In response, she:

          a) cursed him
          b) smiled at him
          c) spat at him
          d) blushed

          • GlibWog

            B..

        • BananaSplits8

          “Does the brain realize what has happened in the brief moment before it dies?”

          Actually, it has been posited that the guillotine blade cutting through the neck was so efficient and quick, the brain didn’t have time to go into shock before actually succumbing from the loss of blood pressure. So like, yea, they knew their head fell in the basket.

          • Poison Ivy

            That is so horrifying – I actually worked on a doc project about that once. It’s incredibly creepy. There’s a story about Anne Boleyn I remember – she was praying when she was beheaded (by a very sharp sword and a very skilled executioner brought over from France specifically out of “mercy” for her by Henry) – and there are several accounts that her lips kept moving for several seconds in the basket. Antoine Lavoisier asked his friends to look in his eyes and see if he kept blinking after he was decapitated during the French Revolution and apparently they counted 15 seconds of blinks before he went still. I think experiments with animals (ugh, I know, I know) showed it was possible for the brain to stay alive something like 30 seconds – other guillotine/decapitation stories (including those from modern Taliban/AlQuaeda beheadings) describe faces looking around confused, trying to cry out, etc. I would think there would be no pain though, no?

            • BananaSplits8

              Hard to say, severed vocal chords would otherwise let us know.

            • Poison Ivy

              I would think all the nerves would be severed, and there would be a state of shock for those last few seconds. But man, to be AWARE! Unless you were really into having that one last trippy experience, it would be so horrific!

            • BananaSplits8

              Yet, I think a condemned’s preparedness affected how they went through it.

              Given enough forewarning, they resign to their fate and mentally check out. More often than not, it’s the spontaneous executions that were, understandably, the most difficult.

            • stanrogers

              The following report was written by a Dr. Beaurieux, who experimented with the head of a condemned prisoner by the name of Henri Languille, on 28 June 1905:

              Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds. This phenomenon has been remarked by all those finding themselves in the same conditions as myself for observing what happens after the severing of the neck …

              I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. […] It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: “Languille!” I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions – I insist advisedly on this peculiarity – but with an even movement, quite distinct and normal, such as happens in everyday life, with people awakened or torn from their thoughts.

              Next Languille’s eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves. I was not, then, dealing with the sort of vague dull look without any expression, that can be observed any day in dying people to whom one speaks: I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. After several seconds, the eyelids closed again […].

              It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement – and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

            • i-Betty

              *shivershudder*

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              We recognize this case history. Flag Land Base in fact audited Henri Languille in his new body as Dolores D. in 1996.

              It was a terrible engram, certainly a departure from the ideal scene.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Flag land base.. You mean Flagwarts?

            • Interested

              I have been told that pain is in the brain. When you,lose a limb it still itches/hurts years after. When I cut my thumb in half I drove to the hospital feeling no pain. I was told by the Dr that the brain goes into survival mode when the body is badly hurt, the pain hits later. Which believe me it did!

          • Jon Hendry

            Even with the loss of blood pressure, the cells in the brain would be able to function for a bit before the lack of oxygen and build-up of waste killed them.

        • Eclipse-girl

          In the right mood, that creepiness is fun.

          For myself, I would take lots and lots of morphine. It does put you to sleep and stops you from breathing.

        • Graham
        • Jon Hendry

          The easiest death for a conscious person would probably be to get shot in the head from a long distance by a supersonic large-caliber bullet fired from a sniper rifle.

          You wouldn’t hear the shot, you wouldn’t see the shot, you’d have know idea what was about to happen, and it would be powerful enough to instantly splatter your brain so there wouldn’t be enough intact to feel pain or register what had happened.

      • DamOTclese2

        It reminds me of the joke about the sailors who washed up on to an island, get captured by the savages, and are given a choice: They could choose either death or they could choose bungee. πŸ™‚

    • Observer

      You in RTC are enormous crybabies. All you’d have to do after a guillotining is pop over to the nearest maternity ward and pick up a new meatsack.

      • GlibWog

        OMG that is right.. absolutely..

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        NO OBSERVER NO!

        It isn’t as simple as that.

        To reincarnate back into a baby body whose parents are Scientology parishioners is a “High Risk Birth” these days.

        The fact of the matter is that we in RTC ordered all newborn babies in the Church to be sold by the Ideal Org Baby Farms:

        : http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/06/20/church-of-scientology-now-selling-babies/

    • aquaclara

      Guillotine tech…. Hehehe.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    Just thinking a cool alias, if I used them, would be “Eli Lilly”. Just sayin’.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      If I knew your address I would send you brown sugar glazed bacon candy for that one!!!

  • t1kk

    I’ve little understanding of French law but conducting yourself like an asshole tends to transcend international legal jurisdictions, and is frowned upon. Scientology basically burned down its house and is now blaming the inhabitants for not having enough fire extinguishers. A bit rich indeed. It’s also worth remarking that this conviction is over Scientology’s ordinary business practices, i.e,. the same conduct that the IRS bends over backwards to protect here in the states. Thanks Jonny for the update.

    • sugarplumfairy

      If the convictions are upheld, does anyone go to jail?

      • Eclipse-girl

        I don’t think so. But money get’s paid to the victims and Co$ will have been found guilty of fraud.

        • Poison Ivy

          Fraud is the definition of Scientology. And L Ron Hubbard!

      • Robert Eckert

        Five were convicted personally, aside from the condemnations of the organizations. Two received one-year prison terms.

        • sugarplumfairy

          thanks, Robert..

          • Robert Eckert

            One-year SUSPENDED terms, Jonny points out.

      • I don’t think so: the original sentences were suspended and the Cour de Cassation is only going to decide if the convictions are valid or not.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Thanks.. Your report is great..

    • Spackle Motion

      The Napoleonic Code has always confused me, although I only have a rudimentary understanding of it. The confines of that legal system in the US is why I didn’t go to law school in Tulane.

    • Observer

      Now I’m wondering if Davey is going to send Top Gun over to lean on the French government.

      • RMycroft

        They’ll probably whine to the US State Department, which will print those whines verbatim and without fact-checking in their yearly report, again. Idiots.

      • DamOTclese2

        Well damn, now I have a mental image of Heterosexual Tom Cruise leaning over a bunch of old guys in powdered wigs.

    • D.Y.G.

      I would think behaving in a similar fashion in a US courtroom would result in contempt of court citations.

  • Interested

    I wonder what would happen if Any of us walked out of a court case and then cried ” unfair I wasn’t/we weren’t in the room so you can’t punish me! So there…
    What a novel way to play justice.
    If they do go to the courts of human rights they should be found even more guilty… But ?..

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I wonder too……….but I sure as hell wouldn’t try it.

    • Poison Ivy

      Can you imagine being a black American male in court for a minor drug offense doing that?

      • Interested

        The mind boggles!

    • Nevermore

      I’m pretty sure that attempting to just walk out like that in a British court would result in the court officials ‘restraining’ you, and you’d get nowhere pretty quickly!

  • Interested

    By the way does anyone remember the French court case against the co$ where the documents mysteriously disappeared… I believe they were taken from the judges rooms and surprise surprise there were no other copies!

    • i-Betty

      I think this is part 1:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVnvxfWr5U&feature=share&list=PL253E4B5074C71A64

      “Is Scientology Above the Law?”

      [edit] Yes, this is the one.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Just a tad angry that it is a SIX part video. I can’t watch it in one go.

        TY for the link. I may have to wait a day or two before I am able to watch it.

        • i-Betty

          I watched all 6 parts some time ago. It’s excellent and well worth the hour πŸ™‚

          • Eclipse-girl

            I have been watching many Vids. I got caught up with Karen, I have watched the move The Profit. I have seen a lot Mark Bunkers vids. I saw a german fictionalized film.

            It is finding the time. That is all and TY for the link.

            • i-Betty

              I used to get caught in an Ellen Degeneres spiral on YouTube, no matter how hard I fought it, but it has long since morphed into a CoS spiral and I’ve occasionally looked up from my screen to find it’s 4 o’clock in the morning. It’s such a compelling subject, and the more I learn the more I want to know.

            • Eclipse-girl

              It is an obsession. All I know is that I want to set these people free.

      • Guest

        In case you didn’t notice, Scientology’s current spokesperson Karin Pouw gives a speech in French at 1:29 to 2:00 in Part 1.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVnvxfWr5U&feature=share&list=PL253E4B5074C71A64

        • RMycroft

          I wonder if the current Karin Pouw is as fluent in French?

        • Eclipse-girl

          I thought the name was spelled POW not POUW but hey mistakes happen. If so, that is a visual on this mysterious person. Can we put out a missing person report on Karin?

      • Interested

        That’s the one. Well done!

    • That is the Cordero affair, which I covered this case at the time for The Herald, Scotland…

      http://www.scientology-lies.com/press/herald/1998-12-14/at-a-loss-to-make-legal-findings.html

      I revisited the case last year at Infinite Complacency in the context of Scientology’s campaign over the 2009 Paris convictions, during which they tried to argue that they were victims of a political conspiracy.

      http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2012/05/scientology-cries-foul-ii.html

      • RMycroft

        Theatre of the Absurd…

        Scientology — News Article Omits Reason Church Has Been Targeted December 6, 1999, Ann Pearce, Letters To The Editor, Seattle Times
        http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19991206&slug=2999686

        (The usual lie that the US State Department severely criticized France. No, they printed Scientology’s complaints verbatim.)

      • Poison Ivy

        “Victims of a political conspiracy” – once again, the Theology of Finger-Pointing at work. Scientologists should damn well know what a conspiracy really is, since they’ve been the architects of so many…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I’m thinking that Miscavige needs a fresh Persecution card to deal out to the SuperPower and IAS Tent Salesmen, a bigger hammerhead to get the last sheeple to find Some way of pulling more assets out of their “Ask”. Distract/Deflect on all the other lawsuits in the States. He’ll have so much to deflect by Oct 6 he’ll need more smokes and 6-way mirrors.

          • Poison Ivy

            Persecution cards in lieu of tarot cards.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Forgive me for being dense.

        One court case (the Cordero Affair) couldn’t be adjudicated because the files were lost and duplicates of these files were never found, after 15 yrs.

        15 $cientolgists were accused and eventually given about 6,000 french francs in compensation because the case never was completed

        Now in this second fraud case, $cienology tried to claim they had been damaged because there was never a resolution to the first case. Since there was never a resolution to the first case, somehow they have been harmed?

      • Interested

        Thank you for those sites. What happened to Moracchini. Was she found guilty of fraudulent activity? Was she being blackmailed?
        When Oliver Morice wrote her letters ( which disappeared) were his copies not enough proof to keep the case alive ? Surly they were signed for. Noted somewhere on a ledger?
        Who are those that were compensated? Why are they so interesting?
        My mind is buzzing, sorry. But thank you.

        • Let me be clear that Moracchini was cleared of any fault after a disciplinary hearing by her professional body (see note 12 to that second link “Scientology Cries Foul II”).

          For the significance of the names cited at the end of the piece, let me leave you to Google them: why spoil the surprise? πŸ™‚

  • Jo

    I always liked France. They take no shit. Oops sorry.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Yeah, you burned up one “brownie” point on THAT one!

      • Jo

        You got too admire French folk, there against Scientology and women wearing burka’s.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          That does not mean they don’t need a big fire hose to clean off the entire city,
          Exclude the Metro. That will take more than a big old hose!

          Edit: BTW, Jo is my middle name. I am having flashbacks!

      • i-Betty

        *snickersnort*

  • mirele

    Wow, Jonny Jacobsen is indeed quite thorough. So much information, so many examples, so many *footnotes*! Thank you for sharing this, Tony.

  • Outside the court, after the hearing, Scientology spokesman Eric Roux gave this reaction:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtGN1L_nEIw

    “I think that if the court manages to keep a serene attitude, an attitude free of pressure, a fair attitude, the convictions will be struck down.

    “There are no victims there are no plaintiffs, there is a willingness of certain people in the executive powers to go after a religion which has perhaps committed the offence of being new, which has perhaps has committed the offence of growing rapidly, which has perhaps — I don’t know, no matter. In any case We should not, today, be attacking people for their religion.”

    He was referring to the fact that the last of the plaintiffs in the original trial have now settled and withdrawn from the case.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I have a headache!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Wot? Was Sherman flown into France to redraft the Legal speeches? Did they also mention a religion nailing crown moulding at fantastic feats?

    • Poison Ivy

      If the plaintiffs settled, as in “took money” settlement, then there damn well were victims. They were just silenced by money, as Scientology is wont to do with those who call it on its crimes.

    • ThetaBara

      “There are no victims” – I think some would beg to differ.

    • DamOTclese2

      Does this dimwit actually think that people will believe the victims don’t exist? Despite the criminal indictments which paraded a list of victims right down to taped telephone calls where the crooks plotted their crimes?

    • Nevermore

      Is it not the case that no-one is being attacked for their religion, but that the religion itself has been revealed as dishonest, even criminal, and is being treated as such?

      • This point was repeatedly made by the court at the original trial and in the judgment. (I’m pretty sure you’ll find it in the appeal judgment too, but I would need to check.) But Scientology’s lawyers are arguing that they can’t have it both ways though: that an attack on Scientology’s core practices is necessarily an attack on their religious freedom.

        I’ll try to make that clearer in a more extended write-up of yesterday’s arguments, which I’ll post at Infinite Complacency later (but it may take some time to complete).

        • Nevermore

          No worries Jonny, it’s just the usual confusion that $cientology leaves me with. I’d be surprised if ‘I can indulge in illegal behaviour because it’s part of my religion’ cuts any ice with the French courts! NO religion is allowed to indulge in illegal behaviour, not just $cientology.

  • Snake Plissken

    The beauty of being a Scientologist is other than not bringing in enough money into the cult , you never have to take responsibility for anything. It’s always the SPs fault, until you get to the OT levels then it’s the SPs and, the imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in your head, fault.

    • Poison Ivy

      I’ll quote myself (humbly! πŸ˜‰ : “Scientology is the theology of finger-pointing.”

  • Poison Ivy

    Jonny rocks. He’s almost the Parisian version of Tony Ortega!
    Scientology – always worse than you think. And always more absurd than you could ever imagine.

  • Spackle Motion

    Any half-witted moron can see through this appeal. I have a lot of respect and love of the French people (not a sarcastic statement) so I hope this is a slam dunk, and it would be so tasty to have the decision have stern warnings against the Plaintiffs (Scientology becomes the Plaintiff in this appeal) that are highly quotable on protest signage.

    • i-Betty

      I love the French, too πŸ™‚

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I love a good baguette and fresh french roast.
        Oh, and the green beans are the best, like, ever!

      • Spackle Motion

        I spent a month in France and it was glorious. I found the folks in the Riviera region to be so accommodating and friendly. Paris….not so much, but it is not unlike any other major city.

        • i-Betty

          Ripe, squishy Camembert, just-picked vine tomatoes still warm from the sun, fresh bread, a blanket on the banks of the Ain River, and a cold bottle of Chablis.

          Yes please!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            U>R>Killin me!!!
            So hungry now…Cavembert is so much better that (the alternative).

          • i-Betty

            Here πŸ™‚

          • Aslansown

            You’re making me very nostalgic for France…

        • Nevermore

          I like the fact that if you make the effort to speak French, they’ll let you, and not rush to show they can speak English. Even in Paris, which surprised me. My only problem with France was the food. I ate everything and put on about a stone on one week!

      • SandiCorrena

        Everything they say is just so pretty; even if it’s “ugly”-I have a lot of respect for that!

  • Watergate

    “A bit rich” is absolutely right. I just read this to my husband, who laughed as loudly as I did. This story should make it to the French version of “The Jon Stewart Show” or “The Colbert Report.” It’s great material!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      IS there a French version of either?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      i always thought you were a dude??????????????????
      OK, you still could be…but…
      But either way….BTN’s head is spinning

      • Poison Ivy

        Gender is irrelevant at the Bunker! Only requirement for membership is a desire to see Scientology’s crimes thoroughly punished!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Agree. But that does not help my basic confusion??????????????
          i still need to know how to greet (or give grief to) someone? no?

          • Poison Ivy

            Yeah you’re right; I guess I like knowing someone’s gender, just for my mental pictures of them. But I also like that on the internet, il n’est pas nΓ©cessaire (now I’m thinking in French!!)

          • Captain Howdy

            All you need to know..

            http://youtu.be/GzPa6NpY3k4

          • Captain Howdy

            You do realize that DamOT and Usa Mrid are the same person? And perhaps a couple of others.

            • aquaclara

              Really?

            • Andrew Robertson

              Yes, really. But Fred has a long history of commitment to Scientology criticism and his profanity doesn’t bother me though I don’t swear myself.

              http://www.skeptictank.org/index.htm

              Andrew

            • sugarplumfairy

              That certainly clears everything up nicely..

            • Captain Howdy

              Told ya.

  • richelieu jr

    I just was watching a documentary on Scientology and the Law from 1999 on YouTube (
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vleJvivoFnA ) and saw Karin Pouw (stye
    misspelled her name!) speak at a gala on the rue St HonorΓ©..

    Her French is really, really good! Where does she come from?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Had . To. Stop!

      (but yeah, her french is remarkable and she is also much taller than i thought)

      edit: do you think they retain that in the RPF?

    • i-Betty

      When does she appear, Richelieu?

      • richelieu jr

        about 5 minutes in, maybe less… In fact I’m not sure it’s her. They say it is on the sound track, but it looks an awful lot like a French woman who comes on later to obfuscate and muddy the waters as only Scions can…

        • i-Betty

          Thanks, Richelieu πŸ™‚ I could be watching a different copy because it doesn’t mention her name in the soundtrack. Is she the extremely attractive brunette who speaks from 05.26, and then again a couple of minutes later when her superior embarrasses her in front of the prospective member she is talking to?

          • richelieu jr

            No, iBetty, the one I’ have seen says that Pouw denies whatever it is just as a woman is standing in the French office in front of the press.. O think she has a sort of bob, light brown hair or ‘chatain’ as we say…

      • richelieu jr

        I watched the whole ting and it is fascinating, i learned a lot about how Scientology tried to thwart French justice, stealing documents, etc…

      • Lurkness

        She first appears early at 1:30.

    • Observer

      I believe she’s Dutch, but I could be wrong.

      • Robert Eckert

        The name “Pouw” is of Dutch origin, but she could have been born elsewhere.

    • Poison Ivy

      Wow! I wonder if she is able to practice her French from The Hole?

    • L. C. Spencer

      Wanna thank you for posting that, somehow I missed it completely. Really interesting to see close up how legal things work in countries where the $cilons don’t have the government under their thumb.

    • 0tessa

      I suppose she comes originally from Belgium. But I’m not sure.

  • Observer

    I imagine Davey is responding to this with his usual gracious aplomb.

    • i-Betty

      Aaaaaaaahahahaaaahahahahaaaaaaa! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    • no_srsly

      His Oiliness

    • DamOTclese2

      My eyes! MY EYES!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        We need to start getting Warning Notices…or special dark glasses for her shoops.

    • Casabeca

      We love to see him pampered.

      • Robert Eckert

        What you did there. I see it.

        • Casabeca

          Observer started it, but as Eyeore says, thanks for noticin’ ;-).

    • GlibWog

      OH HELL NO….BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAHAHHAHAA

    • Nevermore

      That’s just put me right off my breakfast!

  • Kim O’Brien

    what a whaaambulance ….scientology is so ridiculous

  • DamOTclese2

    The Underground Bunker has tunnels leading all the way to France. Love how the “fringes of the Internet” are more widespread, more popular, more *populated* than the Scientology corporation which has been around much longer than the Bunker has been around.

    • Poison Ivy

      The fringes of the internet are where it’s at, man!

      • Robert Eckert

        Got two turntables and a microphone!

        • i-Betty

          And the entire supply of internet cake is located around the fringes.

          • DamOTclese2

            Oh yeah! Caek! Chocolate marble caek! That alone means win.

            • Poison Ivy

              Red Velvet for me. Or something with gooey creme in the middle

      • Candygram

        It seems like “fringes of the Internet” has replaced “disaffected apostates” as the goto dismissal of critics of co$…

  • DamOTclese2

    “The court, they argued, should have stopped the proceedings after the walk-out to allow the defendants to hire new lawyers.”

    Amazing. Does Miscaviage think he can just walk away from criminal and civil court trials and the “wog” court system will quietly stall everything just because the dwarf cried and then stomped away in a little perfumed huff?

    • Poison Ivy

      Evidently, oui.

      • DamOTclese2

        I would have *loved* seeing one of the Gambino criminal trials pull such a stunt. The Judge would have had the defendants returned to his court room in chains, dragged by the hair if need be.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      It’s an extraordinarily childish argument. They are demanding that the court should have: stopped the proceedings, delayed other hearings, read the appellants’ minds, fired the appellants’ attorneys without consulting them, hired new attorneys without consulting them, and then started the proceedings all over again. The irony is if the court had done that, then the appellants would be arguing that the court overreached and was trampling on their rights by taking action without their permission. I’m surprised the court didn’t just toss the appeal

    • LaLa104

      Wouldn’t that be more like a “Scotch” induced huff?

      • sugarplumfairy

        I tasted 18 yo Macallans last weekend for the first time.. It wasn’t horrible..

        • LaLa104

          I hope you didn’t feel the urge to start slapping people around and screaming at the top of your lungs while on your tippy toes. LOL

          • sugarplumfairy

            Funny you should mention that.. Elsewhere on this page, I just told someone I wanted to smack him.. Thanks for connecting those dots for me.. I feel better now..

            • LaLa104

              Cheers! Glad I could help….

        • Andrew Robertson

          Just out of curiosity, but does Pennsylvania have laws on underage drinking?

          Andrew

          • sugarplumfairy

            21 is the legal drinking and buying age..

  • DamOTclese2

    “The fraud-related charges were focused on the use of the Personality
    Test and the use of hard-sell techniques to get ever greater sums of
    money out of members.”

    The crime syndicate was also tape recorded holding telephone conversations specifically plotting how they could swindle their victims out of money. The court trial put the telephone tap records in to the court records which undeniably show that Scientology is organized crime, racketeering, deliberate fraud.

    • Poison Ivy

      Oh man, Jonny & Tony – can you get a hold of those tapes! I’d love to hear them!!!!!!!!!!!

      • DamOTclese2

        I’m looking for news coverage of that. When the original indictments were handed down way back when, law enforcement had tapped their telephone lines and recorded everything, every conversation.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I hope the evidence is present in court.

    • 0tessa

      Scientologygate.

  • DamOTclese2

    Convicted assholes on the telephone to David: “Sorry, DM, we are still losing the appeal.”
    David to convicted assholes: “I order you to walk out of the court proceedings!”
    Convicted assholes to David: “But sir, that won’t work, they’ll just convict us again!”
    David to convicted assholes: “DO IT! DO IT OR I’LL FUCKING SLAP YOU!!!11 DO EEEET!@@@”

    • SandiCorrena

      you forgot the YSCOHB, that was surely in there somewhere between the quotes! πŸ˜‰

  • DamOTclese2

    “You don’t have the RANK! to convict me!”

  • Cat Daddy

    I want to have sex with him, steamy hot sex

    • Robert Eckert

      I’m afraid he’s on the other team.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I want to smack you, serious harsh smack.. but you don’t hear me whining about it, now do you?

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Is there a tent being erected by the Paris org now? And will be there be French poodles posted by the entrance? These are things I will have to sleep on tonight. The Reckoning is morphing into more of a Bizarro Circus than a Marlon Brando fini’.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Without a doubt

    • EnthralledObserver

      This was meant to be in reply to sandicorrena below. Oops.

  • chris

    Tony, thanks so much for all your reports and updates. I’ve been fascinated with $cientology for years and your blog has educated and enlightened me. I am thinking the cult will come to a humiliating demise. It might not happen right away but I think that in 10 years or less, it will have imploded. That said, why do people still join given all the negative publicity and testimonies by former members? I am astonished that anyone, like the Portuguese dancer/choreographer would join a cult with so much online information about its abuses, extortion, corruption and lies. You are doing a GIANT service to the public at large and I thank you. Well done and bravo!!
    Maybe there’s a Pulitzer in your future!

    • aquaclara

      Wish we knew more about how to get someone nominated…. We have some work to do.

  • David Rice

    The crime syndicate’s chief rule in facing criminal prosecution is “Always attack: never defend.” We saw that way back in time during the Clearwater Hearings, where the mob enforcers and their lawyers walked out of the hearings, then framed city officials for various crimes including hit-and-run and prostitution.

    • aquaclara

      That was such a horrible time in Clearwater. But this “appeasement” approach in the city is not working, either. This is way too big for a relatively small itty to have to deal with, without outside legal resources.

  • NeverIn

    I just don’t even know what to think at this point. This organization acts like a paranoid schizophrenic. Is that because the entire thing is DM’s marionette? Or is it LRH’s crazy alternate universe logic machine? I would simply call it madness, but until some Theseus can get to DM and the money inside the shell corp labyrinth, I have to resign myself that it’s evil genius.

  • jeff

    This short french doco (avec subtitles) on TC is worth a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECKH2ll-qZE

    • Robert Eckert

      From 9:18 to 9:22 we get a brief glimpse of our own Skip Press.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I have seen this and I am amazed at how TC was preyed upon.

      For that reason, I am actually grateful that many other young celebs didn’t get sucked in (namely Brad Pitt or Bono)

      • Nevermore

        His childhood’s not very different from mine, except my parents are still married. And I turned to Punk, not religion – I think I made the wiser move! But I can see how the cult filled a huge hole in his life. He’ll never leave them.

      • Cheryl

        I did feel sorry for him for a while, watching the interview he did after Risky Business he was obviously vulnerable and quite immature. A very easy target, but in later life he’d pulled away from the ‘church’, I just can’t fathom why he went back! It’s this that has made me lose any empathy for him and the way he appears to have benefitted from the bonded serfdom of others.

  • Thanks for the report. Reminds me of the moment during the appeal where the clams got themselves worked up about a testimony and stated “we did not come here to be insulted!” To which the reply was “Sir, we are here because you appealed the conviction against you.”
    As I remember the reports, a lot of the procedural wranglings in the appeal centered on whether a particular witness should be allowed to take the stand. Constitutional exceptions and emergency motions burned up days addressing this issue. In the end the testimony of this witness was not used in the appeal verdict, I believe.
    Kind of sounds like the insane amount of noise surrounding the issue of whether the lawyers for Luis Garcia should be dismissed because they knew a lawyer who had once worked for the clams.
    Here’s hoping that there is the same amount of substance to the actual clam defence in the Garcia case as there was in the Paris appeal (not a lot…)

  • Graham
  • Sejanus

    Waaaaah if we can’t win, we are gonna take our stuff and go home!
    They should have been shutdown once and for all right then and there.
    So exactly what countries are left to play nice with Co$ anyhow?
    Are they truly so arrogant to think the whole planet is still unaware of what they are all about?

    • Nevermore

      They think wog law doesn’t apply to them – looking forward to the French showing them that it does!

  • Cheryl

    Should have added a charge of contempt of court for walking out!

  • Graham

    DANS LE COURT ROOM:

    $CIENTOLOGIE: Monsier le Judge. Nous protesterons. Vous n’est pas very fair a nous. Nous sommes un
    religion internationaux avec millions de parishioners qui toute pense que le soleil shines from le cul de notre directeur spirituelle, Son Holiness Davide de Miscabbage; aka vieille Slappy, Le Petit Napoleon etc etc. Nous sommes actuellement un vrai eglise, comme l’eglise des Catholics. Notre Sea Org est comme les nuns et monks, notre auditing is exactement la memme chose que le confessional. Un vrai religion et pas un con-trick des proportions majeur. Il y a des gens sur les outer fringes de l’internet qui sont determine de donnez nous
    un bad nom. Disregarder toute ca. Ce n’est que les ramblings des apostate tres bitter.

    MONSIEUR LE JUDGE: Vous avez un nerve, coming ici et claiming que nous ne sommes pas fair. C’etait vous qui a walked out la derniere fois, leaving us standing ici feeling comme un lemon totale. Nous n’aimons pas votre arrogance, coming ici et trying it on encore. Nous sommes les Francais, et vous avez le nerve de attemptez d’etre plus arrogant que nous! Vous avez un vrai cheek. J’avais news pour vous matey. Je suis un visiteur regular du site de Monsieur Tony Ortega. Il a donnez mois le vrai skinny sur les antics de votre soi-disant β€œeglise”. Ce n’est pas un vrai eglise. C’est un culte, un scheme de pyramide dans le guise d’un programme de self-help dans le guise d’un religion. Le IRS Americain may have fallen for it, mais pas ici mate. Case dismissed. Oh, et by the way, ou se trouve Shelly?

    • aquaclara

      Funny! You got it all in here!

    • 0tessa

      Like your Franglais superbe!

  • Krew13

    Sciloons guilty of fraud and deception? I didn’t see that coming!! But they’re usually such nice, honest people! Just as Tom is totally 100% hetero and genuinely loved Katie and Nic and Penelope and Nazanin and all the others.

    • PinxEngrayz

      The most ethical people on the planet.

  • Melanie

    After reading comments left in the French press, it’s sad to realize that even in France, where it is widely established that it is a sect, people are still defending its rights as a religion. A journalist even asked Mr. Blisko (president of Miviludes – a governmental organization that fights sects) why was scientology exanding in the world and not in France…

    • Nevermore

      They need some edumacashion, je crois!

  • 0tessa

    The representatives of Scientology Inc blew the courtroom! ‘Blowing’ in Scientology means that you depart suddenly because of non-disclosed overts! Well, in this case I must say that might be true. They are true to their believes.

  • Jon Hendry

    Expect the worst if it gets to the EU. The EU court of human rights are total wackjobs.

    • Nevermore

      Can an appeal against a conviction for fraud go to the human rights court?

      • Graham

        “An integral part of the $cientology Religion, under the guardianship of our Spiritual Director David Miscabbage and according to the Religious Texts of our Founder L Ron Hubtard, is to deceive and rip off our Congregation. A court of law cannot have jurisdiction in religious matters. By trying to stop us from acting fraudulently you are trying to restrain us from the free practise of our religion in the manner prescribed by our Sacred Texts, thus infringing our basic human right to practise our religion”.

      • In short yes: but Scientology’s lawyers will characterise the case as a violation of their clients’ freedom of religion as protected under the European Convention of Human Rights.

        They can only go to the European Court of Human Rights once all legal remedies have been exhausted in the French system. That will be the case if the Cour de Cassation lets the convictions stand in next month’s ruling.

      • Jon Hendry

        Appeals against murder convictions in British courts have gone to the human rights court.

        In this case:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M25_Three#European_Court_of_Human_Rights_judgment

        “The European Court of Human Rights ruled unanimously earlier this year that their trial had been unfair and the Criminal Cases Review Commission referred their case back to court.” The UK appeal judges then quashed the conviction (rather grudgingly).

        This result was probably correct.

        But sometimes the ECHR seems a bit too European-liberal-ish though. For instance they are trying to force the UK to allow prisoners to vote. (I think it’s bad for felons to not be able to vote after their sentence is served. But a prison’s population could be a significant portion of the population of the town that contains the prison, which strikes me as being ripe for exploitation and corruption.)

        And there was an ECHR decision that the UK’s sentencing equivalent of “life without chance of parole” is in violation of the prisoner’s human rights: according to the ECHR, there has to at least be a hearing at some point, at which the inmate could demonstrate that they have reformed, even if there’s no chance of the inmate actually being granted parole or released.

        There have been other decisions, like the UK being blocked from deporting rapists back to their place of origin because doing so would deprive the person of “family life”.

  • villagedianne

    That’s like the guy who kills both his parents, then pleads with the court to have mercy because he is an orphan.

    • PinxEngrayz

      Bingo. Now I don’t even have to post!