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What Scientologists at War Left Out: Some Annotations on Channel 4’s Documentary

Marty_Rathbun3Before Scientologists at War aired last night on Channel 4, the documentary’s director, Joe Martin, told us he was looking forward to our review of the film. But we told him that since we had helped with the making of the movie and appeared in it, “reviewing” it would be bad form.

Instead, we’re fortunate that so many of our readers contributed their opinions about the documentary. Those comments tell us that Martin and his producers — Danielle Clark and Michael Simkin — put together a film that is creating an interesting debate about independent Scientology, Marty Rathbun’s role in it, and the future of the church.

We wanted to add just a few factual asides about the film and the response it’s getting.


Marty Rathbun Not a Church Executive?

Scientology is usually tone-deaf when it comes to the statements it puts out to the press, and this time was no different. The film painstakingly describes Marty Rathbun’s long rise to power in Scientology to become the Inspector General of Ethics for the Religious Technology Center — essentially the number two person in the entire organization — and then his subsequent defection. There’s just no doubt that Rathbun wielded great power in the church, as is reflected by Scientology’s own publications. He was also a highly respected auditor and worked personally with Tom Cruise. But when the church was asked for a response to the film, this was the first thing that was put on the screen at the end of the documentary: “The Church of Scientology states that Marty Rathbun has never been a part of its ecclesiastical management…”

Say what? Just last month, Scientology argued in a federal fraud lawsuit brought by former members Luis and Rocio Garcia that the attorneys for the Garcias were improperly relying on Marty Rathbun for the very reason that he was a former high official of the church. Says the church’s legal briefing…

For approximately 20 years, Marty Rathbun was a senior official involved with various entities related to the Church of Scientology. Rathbun left Church staff in 2004…Rathbun…served as Inspector General of the “Religious Technology Center (RTC) the senior-most body of the Church of Scientology’s corporate and ecclesiastical hierarchy.” For most of his career, Rathbun was also responsible for handling major legal actions.

One wonders if the church will ever learn about this thing called the Internet, which preserves the church’s various statements so they can be compared to one another. We can’t help thinking about a fellow journalist, who told us that his publication had decided that getting a response from the church had become pretty much superfluous. “We decided that the Church of Scientology is simply not a reliable source of information about itself,” he said.

 
Ch4ResponseThe Church Responds!

Just as it did with Lawrence Wright’s book, Going Clear, Scientology has responded to “Scientologists at War” with a website claiming that yet another set of reporters got the story completely wrong. It features a 15-minute film that calls Marty Rathbun names and then goes on and on about all the new buildings that the church has opened in its “Ideal Org” program. Despite plenty of solid evidence that the church is actually shrinking in membership, David Miscavige has put his followers under intense pressure to raise money for these new buildings. Why? For exactly the reason you see here: to try his best to give the impression that Scientology is expanding, when there’s no real evidence that it is.

 
Joanne_WheatonSquirrel Buster Joanne Wheaton

Certainly one of the surprise stars of “Scientologists at War” turned out to be the unhinged, cackling Joanne Wheaton, one of the Squirrel Busters who besieged Rathbun’s home for five months in 2011. But we want to correct a notion that came up in our comments yesterday.

Joanne Wheaton is a longtime member of Scientology who took part in the Squirrel Busters siege. However, there is another woman with the same name in the church, and who briefly became known for her unusual donations.

The other Joanne was married to Larry Wheaton, the Air Florida pilot in the Flight 90 crash that killed 78 people in Washington DC on January 13, 1982. Two years later, it came out that the day after Joanne Wheaton received $300,000 in workers’ compensation benefits for her husband’s death, she spent nearly every dime on Scientology or a Scientologist-owned business. She also gave $75,000 from her husband’s insurance policy to the church.

We have spoken to someone who knew both Joanne Wheatons, and our source says there’s no doubt that the Joanne Wheaton who donated her Flight 90 money and the Joanne Wheaton who worked as a Squirrel Buster are two different women.

 

Bert Leahy

Bert Leahy

The Squirrel Busters and the Church

Probably for reasons of time, the film did not go into the interesting evidence that emerged linking the Squirrel Busters and the Church of Scientology itself. (At the end of the documentary, a church statement denied a connection between the two.) Last year, on the anniversary of the first day that the Squirrel Busters showed up, we wrote a story summarizing the role of Bert Leahy and how his eyewitness account helped prove that the five-month siege was a production of the church’s Office of Special Affairs. Leahy was a freelance videographer who was hired by the Squirrel Busters for a short while. He confirmed to Rathbun and us that the man running the operation was Dave Lubow, a private investigator long in the employ of the church. Also, former church private eyes Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold told us that church executive Linda Hamel told them that the Squirrel Busters was a church scheme to get Rathbun to “implode.”

 
——————–

Electronic Frontier Foundation Finally States the Obvious

The Church of Scientology’s virulent attacks on Internet freedom in the 1990s literally helped shape the rules that govern ‘net liberty today, but it’s only now that the church has made the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s “Takedown Hall of Shame.”

As we pointed out the other day, Scientology managed to get a parody website, “Cheer Up Will Smith” nuked. And the EFF goes into delicious detail over what Scientology complained about to make that happen, including a rich whine about “impersonating a human person online.”

The EFF goes into each complaint and explains how wrongheaded they are, and chides GoDaddy for falling for them. It’s a good read.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 18, 2013 at 13:30

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If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Wow….what are the chances of Two women named Joanne Wheaton that are both fanatical scientologists?

    Whoever is at the helm of scientology PR, I swear is helping speed the demise by every script, whether it is conscious or unonscious, it is working! It’s like one of those towering desserts after a gourmet meal the waiter brings as a surprise, complete with a dozen sizzling candles and flames shooting off the top.

    Electric Frontier Foundation’s Hall of Shame award: I wonder if they get a gawdy trophy for this, like the IAS 4 tiered, 4 foot monstrosities we see rolled in at events.

    • Captain Howdy

      There’s a listing for a “Joanne Wheaton” and a “Joanne S. Wheaton” in the scientology services completion data base.

      BUT..the courses taken and the completion dates are exactly the same for both.

      The plot thickens..

      http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/j/joanne-wheaton.html

      http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/j/joanne-s.-wheaton.html

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Two scientologists: Joanne M Wheaton and Joanne Sierens Wheaton.

        Here’s Joanne S Wheaton. She recently joined other veteran scientologists in yet another Hubbard WISE business consultant group, Measureable Solutions, inc, formerly based in Clearwater, then Tampa, FL. She is 60.
        [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/70kke1.jpg[/IMG]

        The other Joanne M Wheaton is 63. She has two sons, Joshua (now in Colorado, not sure if still a sci) and Eli Wheaton, lives in Clearwater, scientologist, has a web developer site/biz like so many in the area. I have seen inferences, but I don’t find concrete evidence, that he is the same Eli Wheaton, a scientologist and nanny to Jeff Travolta’s son, Jett.
        I can’t find Any reference whether the Larry Wheaton widow is Joanne M or Joanne S and am now thoroughly confused. Whichever ones has the 2 sons is the pilot widow.

        http://radaris.com/~Joanne-Wheaton/203388927
        https://plus.google.com/113994647050043843767/about
        http://www.123people.com/g/eli+wheaton
        https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/jett-travoltas-situation-summary.30529/

        • Captain Howdy

          Great job your Holiness. That definitely helps clear things up.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Well, at least I got that one of them is 60 and the other is 63. Joanne Sierens Wheaton is 60, born in dec 1949 and has the 2 boys, Eli and Joshua. Her age would match the timetable in the pilot story.

            So the Squirrel Lady is not the pilot’s former wife. Squirrel Lady however, is OSA volunteer, or has been in the past. Interesting note that her picture and even brief bio on the Measureable Sol. site is nowhere to be found, but I saw just in the last couple months. Her name or picture is not on any of her two sons FB page, although they have staff listed from Measureable. I wonder if she knew the documentary was going to include the Squirrel Busters and didn’t want her name to be associated with her, or the business.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I believe she has a daughter. In one of those videos, Mosey asked something about her daughter being on the RPF and was that why she was there–trying to help her out. Mosey also said something about her owning property that she rents out to Scions–but I don’t know what state that is in.

            • stillgrace

              Forgive my obsessive attention to detail (occupational hazard), but if she was born in Dec. 1949, she’s 63 and 1/2 years old.

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          Operation Clam Bake has a photo of the Joanne Wheaton that was married to Pilot Larry Wheaton. This Joanne Wheaton is blonde, as is the Joanne in the film, but it is difficult to tell if it is the same person (although Operation Clam Bake identifies her as the squirrel buster) http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36132

          • TonyOrtega

            OCMB’s photo is of the Squirrel Buster Joanne Wheaton, not the Air Florida one.

            This is a commonly made mistake and an understandable one. You would assume that the woman in the 1984 Air Florida story must be the same as the woman working today with the Squirrel Busters. I first noticed that two years ago and asked around about it, and was told they were two different people (which is why I didn’t write about the connection then). Now that this has come up again, I confirmed this morning with a very trustworthy source that he knew both Joanne Wheatons and he insists that they are different people.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    Oh boy, Joanne Wheaton certainly was the “star” of this documentary. Star witness for the prosecution in the case of Sanity vs. scientology.

    That chick was just a cackling loon, proudly on display by the cult as a shining example of how “able” scilons are. Once again, a good call on the part of COB, to have these crackpots video themselves and post it online. Well done, sir! No wonder Tom Cruise calls you one of the greatest leaders of all time!

    • She’s quite the glowing example of OT powerz. A “bridge to total freedom” that leads to behaving like that? No thanks!

      It really amazes me that they thought filming their batshit crazy behavior and putting it on Youtube was a good idea…

      • Spackle Motion

        Reminds me of the Mary deMoss batshit crazy video that Mark Bunker filmed. That video will live on forever.

        • Man I had forgotten about that loon – good stuff. Funny that when they make asses out of themselves like that they think they’re “winning” by applying their superior tech of the mind. Their concept of PR is just mind-bogglingly stupid.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I just love it when the COS says “Marty who”?

    They are so delusional it would be funny if it wasn’t so frightening.

    • Silly Scientologists not applying their own tech. Don’t they know not-ising something makes it stronger and more real? Maybe a trip to the RPF will get those dillettante pantywaists back on track!

  • SandiCorrena

    He was an executive; he wasn’t an executive, he was, he wasn’t-gosh they can’t keep up with themselves!! It’s so embarrassing to be COS right now!

    • Skwerl King

      Eurasia is at war with Eastasia. Please change the back issues.

      • Jgg2012

        We don’t pay UK taxes because we are based in Australia / We don’t pay Australian taxes because we are based in the UK.

        • Espiando

          We have no business in the state of Texas/we have an Idle Morgue in Dallas and an org in Austin.

          • Jgg2012

            We decline your invitation for an interview / why didn’t you call the Church?

          • Jgg2012

            The Tel Aviv org is complete / it’s not complete / the super power building is almost ready / we need $50 million more for the Super Powers building

            • Espiando

              Super Power will be ready to be delivered in six weeks at all Saint Hills/It’s 35 years later, and we’re about to open Super Power

            • Jgg2012

              Battlefield Earth will be great / John Travolta ruined Battlefield Earth

      • cre8tivewmn

        Love it!

    • Jgg2012

      It’s a science / it’s a religion / fair game was cancelled / fair game is part of our religion / disconnection does not exist / disconnection protects out religion / we have trade secrets / we’re a religion, not a business ..

      • sizzle8

        Don’t forget “Scientologist” is a trademarked name. Seriously!
        You’re not supposed to call yourself one without permission from RTC.

        • Missionary Kid

          You can, however, call yourself an “Independent $cientologist” without trademark infringement. Just make sure that you keep using the term Independent.

          • aquaclara

            Re the trademarks. I noticed that they have trademarked their cross – it was in a flyer posted somewhere a week or so ago. What kind of church trademarks their cross? (rhetorically useless comment, I know).

            And the rebuttal website today is copyrighted to the Church of Scientology Religious Education College Incorporated. Does not sound like a non-prof to me….or a college…or religious….or educational…or a church.

            I really have to stop reading into the details. I just end up making myself crazy.

            • Missionary Kid

              You can call a non-profit anything you want.
              Co$ trademarks everything so they can litigate the shit out of anyone who uses something they’ve written. If nothing else, it’s a cost and a PITA to anyone they choose to harass.

              I believe there are exceptions that allow usage for commentary, etc.

            • richelieu jr

              What kind of a church trademarks their cross?

              The kind of church that stole it from the satanists that’s what kind.

              http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/crowleyscrossedoutcross.jpg

            • I am

              The cross has been trademarked since the early eighties. One of the first of the missions to go independent, Omaha, was sued due to having the cross on the wall..

        • richelieu jr

          I cal myself a $cientologist anytime I poop into the mouth of someone who trusts me.

          So sue me.

      • richelieu jr

        She’s my sister and my daughter!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I was looking for this one, Mr. Gittes.

          • richelieu jr

            RIght again!

  • Truthiwant

    Rathbun’s relationship with the Church is identical to the relationship between a husband and wife that are getting divorced.
    When the couple are married, it’s all “You are so wonderful ” and “I love you so much” but when it is time for seperation, it is more like “You bum” and “I hate you” and “I’m going to make you pay for that”.
    I find the whole thing pathetic, not just from Scientology’s side but also from Rathbun’s.

    • Truthiwant

      I’m all too happy with the down vote. At least I know there is somebody out there that is reading this excellent blog and now has the possibility of understanding a piece of truth.

    • richelieu jr

      Marty’s relationship with the ‘church’ is more like a marriage in which the couple says ‘We’re so great! Aren’t we cool?” whilst breaking up marriages, forcing abortions and threatening people and killing their dogs… ‘Look at us! We’re gods, we answer to nobody! The tin cans said so!”

      Then when they break up, they’re all like

      ‘You killed the dog!”

      “Well, it was your idea!” and

      “You’re the big Hitler”,

      “No, it’s you!”

      “Well, I’m paying true tribute to the spirit of Mein Kampf!”

      “Well, I hold the copyright”…

  • Observer

    From the EFF link: “CSI also claimed that the creators of the site had violated California Penal Code section 528.5, which forbids the credible impersonation of a human person online.”

    So DM is a human person? Huh. He seems fairly inhuman to me.

    • stillgrace

      One of your best, IMHO. Cruise is perfect!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        “Cruise is perfect”

        Did you ever think you would type that sentence?
        Haha

        It is all about context.

        • stillgrace

          Oops! I should have said: “You matched that leering face to the body of Gollum perfectly! The shades are a nice touch!”

      • Observer

        Thanks! This was the first shoop I ever posted here … good times!

    • You really shouldn’t downplay your skills. You’ve got a real talent for this!

      • Observer

        Now if only I could find a job where I was paid to J&D Scientolgy …

        • Ever thought about joining Anonymous? According to Scientology they’re all paid princely sums by the psychs and big pharma.

          • Missionary Kid

            Unfortunately, when you say, “According to Scientology they’re all paid princely sums by the psychs and big pharma” I consider the source of the information. 😀

            • I don’t know if they continue to do so but OSA pushed that lie back when Anonymous first began protesting. Even though I was still in at the time (kind of on the periphery but still in) I was smart enough to call bullshit on that claim.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll bet it was one more thing that sped you out.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            And you get to wear cool masks and striped socks.
            Oh….and there is Caek!

            • stillgrace

              And you get to perform the Tunak Tunak dance, which is fun, and good exercise, too!

        • FistOfXenu

          Skill like yours to J&D the cult is it’s own reward. 😉

          But I guess you could put out a tips jar.

          • Observer

            It’s definitely a labor of love. Haha

    • Bella Legosi

      This is one of my favorite shoops!

      Now if I can only win the damn lottery!

    • Exterrier

      Pop Whizbang Wow! Send it to DM hisself, cuz I am sure this is how he sees himself, and he’ll blow it up for his office, or maybe hang it on the wall in the Hole.

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      What about the Supreme Court ruling that businesses are people?

      Does that mean we can’t have fun with the Golden Arches?

    • Jgg2012

      Well, the man who always says “we in RTC” is a third person.

  • sizzle8

    Interesting that they are posting stuff from Marty Rathbun’s ‘Confidential-Priest/Penitent Privilege’ Ethics files in their response web site.
    They did the same thing back when the Tampa Times’ Truth Rundown came out and proudly trumpeted the fact.

    • Real Shellback

      Better to call them what they really are – blackmail files.

    • Zana

      So that should make some kind of legal precedent to release the folders in the other woman’s law suit against the church, shouldn’t it? That they blab Marty’s private folder information all over the internet. I’m not a lawyer, but doesn’t that open the legal something-or-other so that none of those folders are private any longer?

    • richelieu jr

      Luckily Marty never participated in this sort of shenanigans and so totally doesn’t deserve it!

  • That site is something else – just oozing with hate (unsurprisingly). What is it Hubbard said about how the SPs howl when you’re winning? If anyone is howling like monkeys it’s them. I had to laugh at “Journey to Nowhere.” Sounds a lot like their bridge!

  • Espiando

    Oh, those denials/not-denials…if you ever want a demonstration of the Scientology maxim “What’s true for you is true,” these denials pretty much cover it. Marty is only a key former executive when it suits them. When it doesn’t, he wasn’t an executive. It’s almost like Marty’s an engram that they just can’t seem to audit out. Here’s a hint, DM: in order to do that, you need to grab the cans, not some copper rods.

    They lost the ability to control their message a long time ago. Their last chance to do so was destroyed five years ago. When Anon said “we run this”, we meant it.

    • Peter

      “What’s true for you is true” is not a correct quotation. I believe it was “What is true for you is what you yourself have observed.” That has alway struck me as the way most folks operate. “Show it to me and I’ll believe it.”

  • LeeAnneClark

    While I realize it can be seen as bizarre that the COS seems to be so tone-deaf and to have no awareness that the internet can easily expose their lies, the reality is that they don’t CARE. The sad fact is that the people who will hear their lies fall into three categories:

    1. Humans with normal functioning brains who have not been hiding under rocks for the past couple of decades, and already realize that anything the COS says is total bullshit

    2. Gullible buffoons who are easily fooled and assume the COS wouldn’t say it if it wasn’t true, and besides, looking up things is just too hard (aka: potential Scientologists)

    3. Scientologists, who aren’t even ALLOWED to look on the internet and anyway are conditioned to believe anything the COS says no matter how outlandish (eg: Xenu)

    it doesn’t matter that their lies are so easily exposed. The people the COS are speaking to don’t have the mental capacity to do even the most cursory dig for the truth. They hear the lie and just believe it. Because actually trying to unearth facts is just too much work.

    I saw lots of evidence of this quirky human trait during the last election cycle, when a certain party continually put out EASILY disproved lies, and a large chunk of the population just fist-pumped “YEAH!” and believed it all wholesale, in spite of the overwhelming and undeniable evidence thoroughly debunking it. People believe what they want to believe. Facts be damned.

    • Real Shellback

      It’s not surprising, it is almost inevitable.

      Most people NEED to belong to one group or another, one tribe or another, one religion or another. Scientology takes advantage of this trait, but almost everyone’s experienced “rooting” for a team at a ball game.

      Scientology cynically takes advantage of this psychological trait and many others. As a meme its nothing more than a parasite on society, constantly and systematically pushing the limits of what we will tolerate to meet its own agenda, and returning nothing. Less than nothing as a matter of fact. If Scientology prevail it would create a despotic dictatorship that Stalin would envy..

    • Zana

      An older auditor from the church was doing some kind of a cycle on me and asked if I was on the internet. I said, Of course, my business is on the internet. Then I told her that embarrassing news was all over the internet… not the least of which were these goons in blue T-shirts with Squirrel Busters on them harrassing “this guy” down in Texas. I told her (while on the cans) that it was embarrassing to be associated with an organization that would send people like that to harrass ANYone.

      She looked at me horrified and said, “Those CAN’T be Scientologists. A Scientologist wouldn’t do a thing like that. Those are just people PRETENDING to be Scientologists to give Scientology a bad name.”

      With that I realized the level of delusion I was speaking in to and just shut my mouth. She had given her whole life to the church and was deeply embedded. As you said: “The people the COS are speaking to don’t have the mental capacity to do even the most cursory dig for the truth.”

      • aquaclara

        This is also an effect of the siloing and restriction of information. But it is mind-boggling to see how quickly the cult can shut down someone’s entire ability to think, reason or question.
        You’ve shared an important story.

        • richelieu jr

          God forbid i should say anything that remotely exonerates this nasty cult but I hear much the same thing from my older relatives about child molestation in the Catholic Church- It didn’t happen/ They weren’t really priests/ The children are lying/ The media is trying to hurt the church..

          When you have a life time invested in believing something it is very hard to integrate the worst… this sort of blindness isn’t limited to Hubbardism (though it is vital t its continued existence)…

    • I see a lot of similarities between the mindless sheep that worship Miscavige and certain cult-like groups of voters on both the left and the right in the U.S. That terrifies me some days.

      • villagedianne

        Agreed People who would never join a cult are still bamboozled in other ways by politics, education, and media.

  • Bella Legosi

    I really loved at the end of the film where Co$ claims that Squirrel Busters isn’t connected to the “church” itself…….but to another entity! That gave me serious lulz! Kinda reminds me of a group of kids playing fort! It is refreshing to see someone tackle this ball of hooks and come out of it having done a fantastic job! This documentary was really down to earth, didn’t focus too much on the beliefs, rather the actions of a church in crisis. THANK YOU for the link last night Tony. I really loved it and am glad to see ya up there and that you have more then one or two sentences to add!

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Off topic totally…
    I am at Lake Tahoe and I am having a serious case of real estate envy.
    They are building mega mansions up here like crazy!
    JohnP? WTF is up with rich people real estate?
    Seriously, this is nuts up here!
    I have never seen this kind of building activity in these parts.

    • Bella Legosi

      Money and land have been going together for centuries! Since I have never been rich I can’t say for sure, but real estate can make you even more money and is a status symbol that is as old as there was status symbols! Bella would elaborate more, but is battling a stye and is feeling icky

    • Missionary Kid

      Did you get an In ‘N’ Out burger yet or the taco of your desire?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Tacos done!
        In N out,….next!

        • Missionary Kid

          You were close to In N Out in Utah. They now have a bunch around STL. The closest one around Tahoe are in Reno and Carson City.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am staying in Reno.
            I am covered!

            • Missionary Kid

              Oops, I just realized I wrote STL instead of SLC for Salt Lake City. They’ve expanded there, and just north of it. Their busiest store is the one in Vegas on the opposite side of I-15 from the strip.

              When they first opened In Texas, they had a 2 hour wait to get a burger. I like it, but not enough to wait 2 hours. They built their own slaughterhouse in Texas, because they only use fresh-ground beef, and they didn’t want to ship it that far.

              They buy the beef, take what they want, then sell the rest.

              If you want to start a discussion online that will go on and on, declare one burger or another the best. I still say that the best is what you grill at home.

      • Zana

        I love In ‘N’ Out Burger. My only fast food I will eat. Yum.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          How does it compare to Five Guys?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I have only been to five guys once. It was Ok.
            In N out is better.

            • Espiando

              In ‘N’ Out is run by Christfags. Five Guys’ fries, which they pimp at a ridiculous level, suck. Both are overpriced. If I’m on the Left Coast, I’ll do Jack ‘n the Box. The last Jack in Chicago closed thirty years ago. Plus, they now have those great pizza puffs.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              The best fries ever: chili cheese fries at Ben’s Chili Bowl–a DC institution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben%27s_Chili_Bowl They are also the creators of the Half Smoke. Wash it all down with a chocolate shake that is too thick for a straw, and you will rethink the meaning of life. Was there recently and snapped this for an absent friend:

            • Phil McKraken

              I’ll rethink the meaning of clogged arteries.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Twice a year is my limit with a good run the next day.

            • Missionary Kid

              The fries at Five guys were better tasting, IMO, but there were a lot of them (enough for two+), and the bag ends up greasy.

              The amount of meat in their burger is more, but since they don’t toast their buns, I found the sandwich fell apart when I was eating it. You also pay a lot more.

              Everyone has a favorite style of burger. Some like a hunk of meat, others like lots of, as it’s sometimes called, salad. Some people like it practically burned to a crisp. Others like hot peppers.

            • Bella Legosi

              I like to make my super secret recipe meatball meat mixture for hamburgers! That is the SHIT! I use a plate to squish them even. I don’t care if they are not round, but I like my burger to at least be even, then it doesn’t fall apart and land on your face or lap!

          • monkeyknickers

            Better than.

        • John P.

          We in Global Capitalism HQ love us In-N-Out something fierce as well. When we’re flying into any place with an In-n-Out, the pilots are instructed to tell us that we’re 40 minutes out. One of the junior interns then calls the limo driver and has them go through the line at the nearest location then head back to the airport. When the timing works right, the driver pulls up to the plane just as the engines are spooling down and the stairs are being lowered, and we’re on our way to our first meeting noshing on our freshly made favorites.

          Mine: 3×6 hold the onions, animal style fries, XL pink lemonade light on the ice. And, of course, with an order like that, I need about two dozen napkins to keep the Turnbull & Asser suit clean and a big bottle of Lipitor as a chaser to unclog the arteries.

          • monkeyknickers

            ANIMAL STYLE RULES. In my case, a double double with cheese. My recommendation to you for the next time you visit JP – bring a plastic poncho a la SquirrelBusters. REALLY cuts down on stains. 🙂

            • John P.

              Freaking brilliant. I have sent out the memo to the Global Capitalism HQ aviation department and henceforth there will be enough cheap plastic ponchos and/or lobster bibs carried on flights so that we can properly enjoy In-n-Out without worry.

              For those of you who are Zappa fans, even 30+ years later, I still can’t hear the word “poncho” without thinking of the song “Camarillo Brillo.” “Is that a real poncho . . . I mean Is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho? Hmmm . . . no foolin’ . . .” It lacks some of the elliptical allusions of Steely Dan lyrics but is a classic in its own right.

            • IMHO affiliates of Global Capitalism ought to wear clear plastic raincoats, ala Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Huey Lewis dining music optional.

          • Couch_Incident

            Reminds me of the last company I was at – anytime we flew the company jet out West with the President, he always insisted that we pick up In-N-Out for the flight back. We never had enough napkins!

        • richelieu jr

          I’ off Jack in the Box ever since someone I know went into a coma from e-coli from their Hollywood branch, one of many victims– yeah go ahead Google it… (full disclosure, he’s OK and eats there now, so so much for thinking we can save people from $cientology…)

          FUN FACT: You can change your In-n-Out Burger bumper sticker to say ‘In-n-Out urge ” Tee-Hee!

        • monkeyknickers

          In n Out is my holy shrine. It is a fantastic burger wonderland. 🙂

          • Bella Legosi

            Oregon doesn’t have In N Out

            • monkeyknickers

              :))) Well Bella, I’m taking Ashleen and the embryos up to Oregon (Brownsville/Lebanon) on Sunday to spend a month with my mama. I could bring you back a double double with cheese?? 🙂

            • Bella Legosi

              Yuuuum! 😀

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          White Castles with Extra onions, double grease, cheese fries and a Super Size Peptol Bismol. Used to check out White Castle locations near airports when I travelled a lot.

    • Truthiwant

      My dear lady, you Americans obviously don’t have any idea of “uncontrolled building” in certain beauty spots. It’s all for money! Thank your lucky stars that the beautiful lochs in Scotland that you will be visiting next summer haven’t yet fallen foul to this type of speculation!

    • Peter

      Is that North Lake Tahoe? Fabulous place. I’ve driven through it numerous times. The wealthy have *always* liked such enclaves.

    • John P.

      At this point, the extremely rich are sufficiently well insulated from economic downturns that they can pretty much do what they damned well please, including spending ridiculous amounts of money on second homes, amounts that would have been unthinkable even 10-15 years ago. I wonder what percentage of those building houses at Tahoe are Silicon Valley types cashing in some of their Facebook stock or that of the relatively small number of recent IPOs that are out there.

      I’m not familiar with Tahoe real estate, so I couldn’t speak to particulars of that local real estate market, but the first thing I would check into would be the possibility of a local zoning law change that opened up development in particular areas. I vaguely recall hearing that there was some friction between California and Nevada a couple years ago over provisions of the compact that they have historically used to govern development around Tahoe, but I could very well be mistaken. If that vague recollection is correct, a breakdown in the compact could easily have enabled a lot more development where it was previously forbidden. Please don’t hold it against me if I am completely wrong; I don’t have time to dig into this right now.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I think you called it with zoning changes, probably brought on by political pressure.
        Tahoe Regional Planning Authority used to be psycho about building up here.
        I remember them once filing a lawsuit against a guy who had a TRPA approved arborist trim his trees. They then decided they didn’t like the results.
        So seeing the amount of construction freaked me out.
        All on north shore, Nevada side.
        These are some architectural wonders, but they sure have opened the floodgates.

    • monkeyknickers

      California side? Nevada side?

  • CommunicatorIC

    Gawker: I Can’t Stop Watching Scientologists Getting Sprinklers Turned On Them
    http://gawker.com/i-cant-stop-watching-scientologists-getting-sprinklers-514027504

    Excerpt: “Last night, the U.K.’s Channel 4 aired a special called Scientologists at War,
    which profiled the Church of Scientology’s former Inspector General of
    the Religious Technology Center, Marty Rathbun. Once a spiritual mentor
    to the likes of Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, and Greta Van
    Susteren, Rathbun left the church in 2004 to practice Scientology
    independently. He runs a blog called Moving On Up a Little Higher, and has been vocal regarding his displeasure over many of the Church’s practices. He says this has resulted in harassment.”

  • Roman

    I watched the Church’s response video. They literally just said, Channel 4 was wrong. Here are all out buildings to prove it.

    ????????????????

    • Zana

      Bizarre. And all those buildings are bought by what’s left of Scientologists and owned by WHO? It’s the Great Real Estate Scam. What happens when the church sinks like the Ocean liner “Oceanic”?

      http://youtu.be/MjTuAV036yY

      WHO ends up with all the real estate? Who owns all the buildings? Follow the money.

      People really ARE like lemmings.

      • Bella Legosi

        Follow the money indeed! I wonder what sort of enigma it is with Co$ property and holdings paperwork. I can see Co$ wasting sooooooo much paper just to “mock up” a paper trail for investigators to follow that just takes them into circles. Thank god for digital copies! It should cut down some tedious reading, should Co$/RTC actually be investigated loudly. I still hold on to the hope that the government never stopped any investigation into Co$ and that they are amassing an airtight case against them.

        • Zana

          From your lips to God’s ears!

          • Bella Legosi

            I am pretty sure He hears me! I request Him to damn a lot of things or people on a daily basis! I am just waiting for it to start raining sulfer down on Int Base!

    • richelieu jr

      “They literally just said, Channel 4 was wrong. Here are all out buildings to prove it.”

      Apparently you didn’t get the memo:

      BUILDINGS TRUMP EVERYTHING!

      (otherwise, why would they write ‘TRUMP’ on the worst ones?)

  • Jefferson Hawkins

    I watched the documentary last night and thought it was very coherent and well-produced. I thought Mosey Rathbun was the real star – so poised, compassionate and intelligent. The contrast between her and the batshit-crazy Squirrel Busters could not have been more stark.

    I think one is unfortunately left with the impression that Scientologists who leave the Church stay loyal to Hubbard and “the tech.” In fact, many – if not most – who leave the Church want nothing further to do with Scientology or Hubbard. And even the so-called Independent Scientology movement is now splintering, with the hard-liners at odds with Marty because he has dared to question some of Hubbard’s “tech,” including his thought-stopping essay “Keeping Scientology Working.”

    • Truthiwant

      Rathbun says at a certain point in the documentary that there are dozens and dozens of people that are coming to him.

      Maybe I am wrong in saying this, but dozens and dozens does not sound a very big number of people to me that want to continue with Hubbard’s creed.

      The literally millions of visitors to his blog could be considered in great part as people with a peripheral interest in Scientology or Independent Scientology.

      • InTheNameOfXenu

        Truth is that the number of Scientologists is very small and the indies are non-existent by comparison.

        • Truthiwant

          The smaller, the better.

          • FistOfXenu

            That’s what DM keeps trying to tell people.

            • Truthiwant

              Miscaviges’s last success could be the Pygmy community. Why doesn’t he start fundraising for an Ideal Org in Central Africa?

            • FistOfXenu

              I guess some of them might believe he’s a big bean. Or they might think he’s a useless little jerk.

            • Truthiwant

              For sure they will think he is a useless little jerk but they might still have to look up towards him!
              At least Miscavige wouldn’t have the Tom Cruise Syndrome mixing with the Pygmies.

      • FistOfXenu

        He deserves credit for not doing the inflated numbers we get from $cientarCONon.

        About those visitors to his site, a lot of people like to watch a car crash don’t they?

        • Truthiwant

          I just LOVE a car crash, particularly while I’m drinking a cool beer.

          • Missionary Kid

            Hopefully, you’re not driving.

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          Car crashes make me empathetic.

          This is more like Jerry Springer in the late 90s.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        “Dozens and dozens” is as accurate as the CoS assessment ” less than a handful of associates whose obsessions make up the heart of the program”.

        And by that last portion of the statement, I wonder if CoS see Tony and Marty as being in bed together (no tone 1.1 connotation implied)?

        With regard to the millions of visitors … I agree with your assessment.

        • richelieu jr

          You can count on it.

    • sizzle8

      I think there is also a large percentage who, although they want nothing to do with the organization and don’t want to join the Indies, still find value in selected things they took from their Scn experience.

      • Truthiwant

        I’ve got to say this now in capital letters:
        YOU DO NOT NEED HUBBARD AND HIS CULT TO UNDERSTAND SOME BASIC PRINCIPLES OF LIFE.
        Of course Hubbard wrote some things that are correct but they are written in a thousand other books that cost ONLY the price of the book.

        • SciWatcher

          And many of them are free because they’re old enough to be in the public domain.

          • Truthiwant

            Well said, my friend!

          • FistOfXenu

            As far as I can tell from reading LRH my grandpa understood people better and knew more about how to have a good life.

            • Truthiwant

              I presume your Grandpa was pre-1950?

            • FistOfXenu

              Mostly but he lived to his 90’s. Why?

            • Truthiwant

              You say your Grandpa understood people better and knew more about life, so I assumed he had not read Dianetics and not fell foul to the mind shit written by Hubbard.

            • FistOfXenu

              He was the kind of guy that would’ve read the 1st 5 pages of Dianuttics and laughed a lot and then said Hubbard old man should’ve given him a boot up his ass and told him to get a real job.

            • Truthiwant

              Maybe we are related. I think my Grandpa would have said the same thing!

            • FistOfXenu

              Lol. I think that generation was full of people with good sense.

            • Captain Howdy

              99% of the people who read dianetics thought it was shit.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That would imply that at least 100 people read it!

            • Captain Howdy

              Nyet!

              Max # of scilons (being generous) in it’s history..200,000..# of copies of Dianetics sold..20,000,000..= 1.00%

            • stateofcircle

              I couldn’t get passed the first chapter the first time I tried to read it. I tried to force myself 2 more times and still couldn’t do it. I really wanted to be objective and at least have an understanding of both sides. And I have read from some that Dianetics had some decent and helpful information, so I sucked it up and went for a fourth go around, convincing myself that it had to get better the further I read.

              Nope. Made it to chapter 3.

              Then, nearly a year after I put it in the bowels of my bookshelf resolving to never pick it up again, Tony started his “Blogging Dianetics” series with Vance. I have been reading along ever since, as the ONLY way that book can be read is if it is being read in short(ish) weekly doses along with a prolific journalist, an equally hilarious and intelligent lawyer / ex member and a few hundred other people who mercilessly and truthfully rip it to shreds.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Hon, I’ve learned more from my cat: be loving, bring gifts, show you are happy when the human walks in the door, ensure cuddle time, take long naps, eat well, enjoy a good tree climb, find the patches of sunshine, and speak up if stepped on.

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m sure that’s true PTBA. But you know it’s just a cat’s way of training it’s pet humans right?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I know that, but I don’t let her know that I know that.

        • Missionary Kid

          The way propaganda is written so it is effective is to include bits of truth, or apparent truth. That’s what LRH did.

          • Except Dianetics is even bad at being propaganda. Really bad. Maybe it worked better in the 50s, when psychology was still thoroughly cluttered up with Freudianism and nuclear physics was looked on as something akin to magic by a large portion of the population, but not now.

            • Missionary Kid

              What Dianetics and $cientology depend on is getting people far enough into the door so that they can program them to ignore all the lies.

              The way Co$ and Dianetics operate, is that from the beginning, they keep a person focused on little kernels of truth while they train them to ignore any informational or emotional dissonance.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      I have to give Marty credit for questioning Hubbard, though. Hubbards’ oppressive ethics policy’s, ie KSW, are what holds Scientology together. Without it, people will start to think for themselves and splinter. There are way too many contradicting policies in Scientology and once a person is out of the ‘church’, it becomes quite clear to them.

      Although, you are totally correct that most people who leave the cult, don’t practice Hubbard’s nonsense. I’m one of them. However, this documentary is a first. There has not been one done that shows independent Scientologists in a good light and the cult more bizarre. This must give Miscavige sleepless nights.

    • Truthiwant

      I quote:
      “Many (Scientologists) – if not most – who leave the Church want nothing further to do with Scientology or Hubbard.”

      Thankyou, Mr. Hawkins, for this true piece of information.

    • AutOmatic

      I laugh every time that words and a shitty lie detector are referred to as “technology”. There is absolutely nothing “technical” about it. The e-meter/shitty lie detector can be fooled, does NOT measure memory energy, and repeating questions to someone or to yourself is not a “technology”. Now, if the church did have some fantastic machine that could record, measure, and confirm that your memories or “engrams” are being erased, then that machine could be referred to as “technology”. Otherwise they need to refer to it from now on as “hotair” or “gratuitous bullshit”.

      • richelieu jr

        Not nealry as bad as the fact that the ‘tech’ doesn’t really refer to the e-meter, but to all the lousy bla-bla-bla self-help shit..

        Try and forget English for a second and think that by technology they mean techniques;. Hubbard used the other cuz it sounded ore ‘scientific’ and he was a moron…

        • Missionary Kid

          What? HOW DARE YOU!!! Hubturd a moron?

          Good one. 😀

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Hey, I resent that!

            • Missionary Kid

              Sorry. I just resist writing LRH’s name in the way he was born with. I should have said, “LRH a moron?”

              That was not meant to demean your satire. 😀

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I was just messin’ with ya. Sometimes the crazy red eyes make me look too serious I guess.

            • Missionary Kid

              I knew you were messing with me. I do appreciate your satire.

              Here’s a list of LRH alternative names I’ve collected.

              LiarRon Humptydumpty
              Liar Ron Humpty
              L. Con Hubbard
              Hubtard
              Liar Ron Humbug
              Tubbard
              Marquis de Fraud
              Blubbard
              Flubhard
              Blubtard
              “Dr” L. Ron Crankenstein.
              Dr. Scrubbard
              Liver lips and a sebaceous cyst
              Hubbard the hole.

            • Lilaeth

              That reads like some kind of poetry. Possibly Vogon…. 😉

            • Missionary Kid

              Considering the topic, it is probably Vogon.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Hope you’ve got your towel.

            • monkeyknickers

              Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish! 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              L. Con Hubbard is my fav there.

            • Missionary Kid

              For me, it all depends on how I feel when I have to use LRH’s name.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Now you know how I feel when my name is taken in vain.

      • Missionary Kid

        Obviously, one of the ignorant faithful decided to downvote you. There are reasons that “lie detector” results are not admissible in court, and they have a much greater amount of physiological information available than a measurement of galvanic skin response available.

        Hubbard’s whole definition of MEST is wrong on so many levels, it’s laughable.

        (For those of you ignorant of physiology and electronics, galvanic skin response is all that an e-meter measures.)

      • cre8tivewmn

        I have often thought the same thing and this e-meter tech is from the 50’s. I don’t care how streamlined they try to make it look, it’s pretty simple tech and it’s analog. In what other area of your life would something so crude be called technology?

    • tetloj

      There is a fabulous video of Mosey somewhere dealing with the squirrel busters (I think it was on Marty’s blog) – not sure if it is Joanne or some other crazy woman. In this video she quietly addresses something to the women that completely shuts her up…can’t find it but if anyone knows what I am talking about would love a link to be posted – a nice addition to the Mosey love that is going down here.

  • cre8tivewmn

    1. Re the video on new website. Miscavage really loves a good stage backdrop! Designer eye-candy almost made the video worth watching.

    2. Re the website page about Marty. For a group that doesn’t care about “unimportant” Marty, they sure pay attention to his life! “Facts” seem sleazy and often irrelevant (on the COS’s part).

  • Sidney18511

    For a church who’s hobby is complaining that their “rights to practice their religion” is under seize, they sure don’t give a shit about the rights of “independent Scientologests” to practice theirs. I would just loves to see the independent movement get that issue in a courtroom.

  • Bob

    I visited the church site that is suppose to debunk the channel 4 segment. What an absolute CROCK OF —-!
    The letter from Karen Pow#%€*+^£¥ to the Channel 4 producer is hysterical. It is merely a commercial for Hubbard and the encyclopedias. It does nothing to address the actual documentary. The letters from the clams to the channel show a complete lack of reality about their own church. It is hard to maintain a composed demeanor when I am around so many clams and I have to experience their lunacy first hand on a continuing basis. The more the church lies the deeper the grave they dig.

    • Missionary Kid

      Hope you escape as well as Cary Grant did in the movie you use for your avatar.

    • noseinabk

      Those letters are dated May 29, 2013 and June 11 2013. This is significant if you consider that Tony stated that attempts for interviews and such were made at the time of filming.

      • Bob

        Good point. Robots have no ability to reason, only to react.

    • cre8tivewmn

      It’s obvious they had their website ready before the doc aired. All the comments from scions are bssed on the title of the show, not the content. Imagine how upset they’d be if they watched it.

      Also, in the video they kept saying that the tv channel should have told the story about buildings and printing presses instead. Why would any news show waste precious airtime on that when COS will do it themselves and NOT sue over it?

      • Bob

        Very observant and accurate. They try to fight a real enemy using computers and policies as if we are all parts of a software program meant to fight them in a computer game. Talk about NO CONFRONT. Psientologists are suppose to have the best confront in the world. I think only in their world, not the real world.

  • Bella Legosi

    When will Co$ realize that they are operating from obsolete tactics? Have they noticed just how awful their reputation is in the media? Remember when Luke and Eric were on RockCenter? That episode didn’t even bother showing the party line statements about those two until the end of the show (the reporter even said “Co$ is going to say this and that about you guys…….” during the interview.) That says a lot. I may just be old school when it comes to ethical journalism, but I can’t help but notice that more and more media are waking up to the lie and not backing down from Co$ “confront and shatter” tactics. When I see a documentary or any news piece these days, I am stuck by how well some outlets know the party line and just put that at the end of their story. Very refreshing to see this subject getting the attention it deserves! Finally!

    I can’t stress just how well this was done! Especially, you Tony! Fantastic job!

  • On a related note after being absent for several months (presumably in the RPF) @scientologymyth is back on Twitter promoting the cult’s new hate site! I’ve missed her so and gave her a proper welcome back.

    • Missionary Kid

      If you’re talking about Karen, she could certainly be released long enough from the hole to form a rebuttal, but remember, she hasn’t actually been seen, has she?

  • BosonStark

    Maybe David Miscavige is the only “ecclesiastical executive” in the Church of Scientology now? It’s safer that way. Last one out, please blow out the candle in Xenu’s mountain prison.

  • Roman

    I encourage anyone who hasn’t done so yet to put your name on the Indie 500 list at Scientology-cult.com

    It’s a strong lynchpin for Scientologist still in when they see those names on the list

  • Xique

    What no more “Cheer up Will Smith”, damn that was a fun one. Can’t impersonate a “human person” online, I guess, too bad!

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Sometimes when something the church says and does is so outrageously fraudulent, the only way to stay sane when addressing it is through humor. So here goes.

    On its Channel 4, “rebuttal” website, the church is claiming that 40 million people checked out its websites last year, and this proves the explosive growth of the church. I had no idea that website hits could be used to prove a church’s growth. Perhaps Amazon.com. should get tax exempt status, it is soooo much like the church. Think about it. The company’s website also gets millions of hits. And, Amazon brings in billions of dollars a year and it sells books. What a coincidence! The church and Amazon are identical!! Even more coincidental, neither entity has more than a few thousand “bodies in the shop!”

    Oh wait, no buildings. The church claims the number of new buildings proves the church’s growth. Well, if Amazon merges with the construction company building the mega mansions in Tahoe, it would be exactly like the church, get it? Billions in revenues, sales of books, dozens and dozens of new, beautiful buildings, and millions of visitors to the website!

    Oh wait, something still is missing. Oh yes, the prisons, how could I leave that out?! So, if Amazon merged with a construction company, then merged with a private prison corporation, it could really give the church a run for its money (pun intended). Why I bet you couldn’t even tell them apart, identical twins!

    (Sorry Amazon, satire and all that, you understand. Ask the aliens, they accepted the Sun’s apology.)

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      I just realized that a crazed killer-hostage taker, dripping with blood, and surrounded by police (live on the Internet) also get millions of hits on the Internet. Is he also a church with explosive growth?

      • Zana

        Right on! Very funny. I’m laughing out loud.

    • Zana

      You gotta remember that last year Katie ditched Tom and was all over the tabloids. That’s part of those 40 million hits on Co$ websites. Plus that includes Debbie Cook’s Coming Out Party… as well as the terrific books that I downloaded and read (on Kindle so that nobody could see what I was reading 🙂 ). Lots happened to put Co$ in the controversy last year.

      The “rebuttal” website is lame. Just another advertisements for the buildings. Again… as someone said… scary.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Yes! And every time someone googles “Scientology” the church pays for it, even if the researcher is only trying to find out if the Cruise divorce was granted…..

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Just the fact that there IS a rebuttal website is immature on so many levels–its content is almost irrelevant.

        • stillgrace

          I’ll bet the clams responsible are proud of themselves and congratulating each other even as we type. Delusion … their final frontier.

        • aquaclara

          They would have been better off creating a rebuttal to the parody website and leaving the original up!

          • FistOfXenu

            Hang on. You didn’t already notice how outstandingly brilliant the cult is at rebuttals? What could they do? stick Ka-Poo on a site to tell people to tell us Will Smith hates $cientarCONon and isn’t taken in by their bullshit even a little bit, but he likes the tax break he gets for donating his money to them? That could be fun for us but she’ll just end up on RPF again.

            • aquaclara

              “that could be fun for us.”
              oh, yes.
              Now what would really be fun would be to report all those scilonic made-up hatesites (the ones the cult built to harm the exes the cult is afraid of) to the fun people at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, because I think they would appreciate the deep irony of a cult boohooing that someone took their stuff when they intentionally set out to hurt someone. However, I am not about to open or click on those hate sites, let alone send them anywhere – I figure they have landmines attached to them.

            • stateofcircle

              This would be great, since they’ve repeatedly denied any association with most of these sites, so by going after anyone for reporting the sites or any action against them, they would once again have to contradict themselves.

        • richelieu jr

          “Just the fact that there IS a rebuttal website is immature on so many levels–its content is almost irrelevant.”

          I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I? I know YOU are, but what am I?I know YOU are, but what am I?I know YOU are, but what am I?I know YOU are, but what am I?I know YOU are, but what am I?

          • monkeyknickers

            Ha!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Aaaaagggggghhhhh!

            • Missionary Kid

              Perfect.

    • aquaclara

      This IS funny. Thanks.
      I especially like Karen’s sucking-upness to COB. Clearly, she has had a bit of practice in this, and felt the need to pile it on in her letter.

      • grundoon

        He wrote it himself and signed her name to it.

        • aquaclara

          Sounds right. Karen may still be in the hole, and he has to do everything himself! This provides tremendous insight, too, into how he perceives his accomplishments.

  • monkeyknickers

    I watched Scientology’s video response to Channel 4’s documentary while eating my sandwich just now. Astonishing. I’m going to boil this down for OSA cats now:

    Dear Scientology,

    NO ONE BELIEVES YOU ANYMORE. YOU LOOK LIKE DICKS. AND ALSO PATHETIC.

    Sincerely,

    Monkeyknickers

    • SciWatcher

      Your PS made me LOL

      • monkeyknickers

        So you’re laughing at my pain, Sci? THANKS A LOT. :))

        • SciWatcher

          Hahahahaha! I guess I am!

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      My family enjoys regular trips to Walt Disney World and I’ve watched a fair number of their planning DVDs.

      The music similar.

      But at least Disney realizes that tempo/beat/”music” can only be sustained so long.

      A much, much shorter time than this video.

      • Missionary Kid

        Obviously, you haven’t gone through It’s a Small World more than once. (If they have it at Disney World).

        • Bella Legosi

          Once was enough for me and I was 4!

          • Missionary Kid

            Smart Bella.

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            It’s like sushi … an acquired taste …

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          One of my favorite rides.

          Mrs. X gets frustrated because not only do I sing along … I get the words wrong and don’t care.

          • Missionary Kid

            Lord X, you are truly demented. 😛

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              “Demented”? That’s a completely wicked, hurtful, and despicable word.

              Unfortunately, in this context it is also accurate, honest, and truthful.

            • monkeyknickers

              Claim your craziness!! 🙂

        • monkeyknickers

          I took Ash a couple weeks ago as a treat. That fucking ride gave me nightmares. It’s legit straight out of a horror movie. 🙂 Plus: you would not BELIEVE how much you have to pay to be entitled to witness that doll-sized horror. I was sweating it, thinking my credit card was going to be declined. Yeesh

          • Missionary Kid

            How did she take the ride?

            • monkeyknickers

              I asked – did you like that? And she said, “There was a boat.” Interpret at will. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              At least she didn’t come out singing the song over and over, like my youngest did, as well as on the long ride home until he fell asleep.

              We would try to change the song, and discourage him from singing it, but that would only last for a short time. Thank goodness he finally zoned out.

            • monkeyknickers

              I am DEFINITELY counting my lucky stars after reading that. 🙂 I have enough mental trauma from Yo Gabba Gabba. I don’t know if I could’ve taken it. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              When I was supervising a group, in the morning while we doing something repetitive, sometimes I’d start to sing some insipid song like, “Itsy Bitsy, Teeny Weeny, Yellow Polka Dot Bikini,” or sometimes, “It’s a Small World.”

              About two hours later, one of them would yell, “I can’t get the song out of my head,” so I’d substitute something else more innocuous.

              We’d all J & D each other with tricks like that to keep the day interesting.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              It’s a world of terror, a world of fears
              It’s a world of nightmares, a world of sideways stares
              Isn’t it time we’re all aware, it’s a SP world after all…

              It’s a SP world after all, a SP world after all

              It’s a wog, wog world

            • Missionary Kid

              I could take that far easier than It’s a Small World.

            • monkeyknickers

              LOVE.

            • monkeyknickers

              What kinda group do you supervise? I mean – just curious and nosey am I.

            • Missionary Kid

              It was when I was in my construction phase. I’ve also done it with a volunteer groups, too, over the years.

    • Markthehungarian

      Too true! Hilarious

      • monkeyknickers

        Are you really Hungarian Mark?! Or better said, Magyar van?

        • Markthehungarian

          Igen! And actually it’s “Magyar vagy?” De az vagyok.

          • monkeyknickers

            Damn!! I wasn’t sure about the formal tense . . . . it’s been a while.

            Éltem Szegeden egy évig, hanem elfelejtettem mindent most . . . . .

            • Markthehungarian

              Hah ahaha! Nem baj! I’m impressed by anyone who takes the time to learn Hungarian..!

        • Markthehungarian

          Hat persze hogy az vagyok!

          • monkeyknickers

            Jól. . . . jó! Magyarok a legjobb. És a legszebb.

            :))))

  • Xique

    I feel bad for either one of the Joanne Wheatons. The footage of Squirrel Buster Wheaton is just too much. SO EmBARRASSING!

    • pronoia

      She is not allowed to watch videos of herself. Much too enturbulating!

    • Zana

      She deserves to watch it for what she was doing. I hope they tie her to a chair and make her watch herself over and over and over again. That might bring her into Reality a bit.

      • Xique

        I hear ya

  • ze moo

    From scientologyresponse.co.uk

    ‘What the documentary actually reveals is the pathetic end result of his deconstruction into insignificance.”

    Hello pot,this is kettle, you’re black.

    The implosion of corporate clamatology has caused the dwarfenfürher a lot of consternation. While Marty may not head a large portion of the squirrel population, he does have a very public presence and he does influence the clam world. Miscavige will not tolerate that, he and he alone is the anointed one( Hail Neo). I think that is what the ‘oiliness table’ is for, to anoint the ones who can pay for the scam to continue.

    Scientology has become such a world wide joke, too bad the clams aren’t in on the mirth. When a fake apology to aliens getting associated with scientology gets more coverage then any thing the CO$ does, the landslide has not only begun, but it can’t be stopped either.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Yes! For all of the abuses and damage that has been caused….there is something joyful in actually J&Ding the church right into ‘ non-existence’.

      Revenge is a dish best served cold….maybe!
      But it is even better served laughing hysterically.

      • SciWatcher

        Well, as William Makepeace Thackeray says in Vanity Fair: “it
        was to combat and expose [quacks and fools], no doubt, that Laughter was made.”

    • stanrogers

      In the words of comedian Chris Addison, “this is not only the pot calling the kettle black, it’s the kettle calling another kettle a kettle.” (One of the best quips I ever heard on Mock the Week, and I’ll post it every chance I get.)

  • pronoia

    LOVED seeing all those useless Carter Ruck letters lined up in the “rebuttal” video. Letters from Carter Ruck might be the most expensive letters one can buy!

  • dbloch7986

    I feel we are fast approaching the point where Scientology’s “rebuttals” will no longer be given air time simply due to their demonstrably false statements.

    • FistOfXenu

      I’d love to see that Derek. They’ll be replaced with a statement by the producers of the documentary saying some thing like “A lawyer from the cult sent us the usual ridiculous letter claiming that this program isn’t accurate and all the people in it are criminals. Instead of reproducing page after page of their lies we’ll just show you this photographic summary” (and they display a photo of a cowpat)

      • dbloch7986

        Even better would be if they held up the printed letter in front of the camera and say, “Scientology sent us this response…” And rip it in half.

      • stillgrace

        … and we sincerely apologize to cowpies for linking them to scientology.

      • stateofcircle

        I’ve noticed lately in articles and shows about them that reporters and narrators have been saying some version of “and we got the usual denials from Scientology” usually with an eye roll and a knowing tone.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      I think Saturday Night Live will have a skit on the cult soon. It will consist of a short interview with a cult member, followed by scrolling script. A voice over will read the script, and it will be a compilation of conflicting cult statements: Marty was fired as an executive; Marty was never an executive; there are 10 million Scientologist, there are thousands of Scientologists; we re opening our first church in Buffalo, we have a well-established church in Buffalo, and have had for thirty years………

      • stateofcircle

        Re: re opening first church, etc. is it me or are there like 5 “first” churches? DC, Phoenix, one in NJ, a California one….

        The comment thread on here comparing their various stated contradictions is priceless. That needs to go up on a website. They’re proving that they’re liars.

    • richelieu jr

      One can only hope– Hasn’t happened to the Republican party yet though, so I have my doubts….

      ASslong as the US media insists on thinking journalism is “One side says this, BUT the other says this” as if both sides have equal merit, it will never, ever happen.

      • Anonymookme

        I think I love you Richelieu Jr. Well said.

  • media_lush

    Re all the pending and future lawsuits against scientology I wonder if an argument can be made that any “official” written statement made by them is invalid as it can be proved that they are habitual liars [eg Marty Rathbun was never a senior officer when their very own sites and records say the opposite – see pic below]…. surely any case would then have to be tried with a “real” person answering questions as anything written wouldn’t be worth the paper it was printed on. Once you’ve a warm scion meat body open to cross examination you have guaranteed win.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      I could not bring myself to look at the rebuttal website, but if they disclosed things from Marty’s folder, that could help in the Laura DeCrescenzo case. Would love for the attorney to point to these websites and Freedumb magazine, etc., in court and see the reaction of the judge and jurors (and media). Now that would be interesting!

    • richelieu jr

      You’d certainly think it would be relevant to certain current lawsuits where they claim the contrary…

      I sure hope someone forwards them these articles (hint, hint)

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    There is one thing though that I wish the docu would have covered–that of an estimated cost for the Squirrel Buster operation: the lease for the house across the street (as I recall, it was not month-to-month but a 6-month or a year), the cost of the PIs, the cost of surveillance and computer equipment, the amount spent on lodging and food for the group for months, the cost of outside camera work of Bert Leahy, the purchase of a golf cart and boats, rental cars… clearly, this is not a rag tag bunch of local protesters. They were flown in and well financed. And, I believe there was a lawyer involved somehow (something with a phone call Marty made to confirm things after chatting with Leahy). That would have made an impression on many levels: (1) The seriousness of their intent, and (2) a poke in the eye to those parishioners who have sacrificed their financial well being for this off-the-charts craziness. The amount they spent over the years on those two PIs following Broeker still astounds me.

    • TonyOrtega

      And don’t forget to throw in the cost of the house across the way that was used for surveillance cameras after the Squirrel Busters left. Rathbun learned from the owner that a Scientology PI had locked in a lease for THREE YEARS. It was one of the things that Rathbun considered when he decided to move. He enjoyed the thought of Miscavige paying for that place long after Marty and Mosey had moved to San Antonio. As for the Squirrel Busters themselves, you have to factor in the fact that it was not the same folks over the entire five months, but several different teams who were flown it to take turns, that two of them who were Scientologists said they were being paid $1000/week, but one who was not a Scientologist (Bert Leahy) got twice that for his one week on the job, if I remember correctly. And not only was a house leased, but so were hotel rooms, and there were something like three or four lawyers always on call. This was not a cheap operation.

      • Truthiwant

        This is one of the things that really pisses me off.

        Obviously I don’t give a dam about Scientology now, but to think that I, probably along with many other people on this site, contributed to undertakings like the “Rathbun spying affair”, or something similar years ago when I was in the Organization, makes me feel sick.

        Any and all contributions spent in Scientology are corrupt. Never once has money been spent genuinly on a just cause by the Church of Scientology.

        • Missionary Kid

          Pope Missionary Kid grants you forgiveness. You knew not what you were doing. You are now atoning for your sins.

          Bless you for being here. You’ve been a good contributor here.

          • Truthiwant

            Thank you, your holiness. Maybe you will consider my beatification towards Sainthood.

            • Missionary Kid

              Consider it done. Remember, I’m an Independent Pope.

      • FistOfXenu

        All done on that IRS exemption. Our tax dollars at work. Bastards!

        • stateofcircle

          Um, excuse me FOX. Did you not read that the Squirrel Busters were not affiliated with the church? I’m sure they were just good-hearted thetans who were selflessly defending their sacred religion and sacred beliefs from being persecuted against and to protect all of their fellow parishioners from this horrible attack on their sacred and meaningful beliefs. Those good people pilgrimaged all the way down to Texas on their own dime.

          For shame on you for not referring to Sir Pouw’s eloquent statement before you rushed to judgement.

          • FistOfXenu

            Insert long loud evil laugh here.

            And the PI that rented the house and installed cameras also did that on his own dime. How could I have missed that?

      • richelieu jr

        Luckily it isn’t DM who pays but some poor kid who won’t go to college.

  • Xenu, Lord of Kobol
    • Suhweeeeet! Must forward this letter to every attorney currently suing COS. We have it in writing that David Miscavige has his hands in every freaking decision and operation made bynthe Church. Thanks Davey oops I mean Karin.

    • “An apostate of the Church of England would not be a qualified source of opinion on the Archbishop of Canterbury.”

      First, does the Church of England even do that any more? Even the Catholic Church doesn’t, do they?

      Second — yes, yes she would.

      They really believe “apostate” means something about the person they’re labeling, rather than about the person doing the labeling, don’t they. It’s just so stupid.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        For me personal credibility does play a part.

        If this were Marty all by his lonesome crying about how Mother Teresa beat him or the Dalai Lama touched him in a bad way, I’m prone to give T & D the benefit of the doubt based on the reputations of all involved absent conclusive proof to the contrary.

        Marty and company may not be the poster children of morals and good behavior, but their consistency coupled with other testimony of people with better reputations, leads to my confusing that CoS is a cult and CoB is not a very nice man.

    • Captain Howdy

      So Karen Pouw states on the 11th that Miscavige personally removed Rathbun from his position of authority…but last night they claim he never had one?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Is Dave looking for a new job?

      This letter reads like a puffed up résumé.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        From your lips to Xenu’s ear …

    • TheLurkingHorror

      It reads just like a parody. OTVIII is Great couldn’t make any funnier. Are we sure that site is for real? It’s gotta be some kind of joke, no?

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        What’s sad is we see it for what it is … crappy humor.

        Scilons see it for … the truth.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    The video is not loading for me, but reading the letters to channel 4 that they put up, I am thinking they lined up a whole TV series in the first letter. You could go line by line and debunk claims and show the real picture. The second letter is mainly a defence of DM. The third was sent immediately after on the same day – “hmm, maybe we talked to much about Marty and Dave, let’s send them some info on how great Ron was”.
    Reading between the lines , all I see is …”All hands at PANIC STATIONS”

    • TonyOrtega

      If you’re in the UK you should be able to watch it on Channel 4’s VOD site.

      • Graham
      • Mary_McConnell

        I had trouble with it from your site. Only showed that the doc was 47 seconds and after 47 seconds it cut off. Tried multiple times to no avail so I clicked the youtube name at the bottom of your copy which took me directly to it at youtube and watched it from there. Later on I came back to comment, I checked it and it was working fine… I thought it was just an isolated matter for me. Perhaps not?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        sorry – I should have been clear. I meant the church’s response video.

  • N. Graham

    It always kind of reminds me of how in Superman comics, whenever Luthor announced he was reforming and going to cure cancer or something the public would all forgive him his past transgressions. But of course it was always a ruse. I sometimes wonder if Marty will surprise us somehow…

    I do think that Marty’s sincere about helping people, raising money for Debbie Cook, giving the excess to Marc
    Headley. And through his blog we get an idea of his mind set and the slow crawl away from what $cientology. The higher you fly, the harder you fall. Probably why it’s taking him so long to abandon the “tech.”
    Especially since he derives an income from it now.

    Irregardless, if he had tried to go and do the 12-Step Route and make right all the things he did wrong (maybe get a list like $cio show My Name is Earl), he probably would have appeared more sincere in being sorry for all the Fair Gaming he did. Like he says in the film, maybe he is getting pay back karma with the Squirrel Busters..

    Forgiveness being the Christian thing, I hope he can continue down the path of least sorrow
    for all, especially since it appears he has a nice wife and loyal friends.

    Then again, I think he really likes the fame a lot…

    • richelieu jr

      Can we stop call it ‘fair gaming’ and start saying ‘felony harrassment’, ‘breaking and entering’ and ‘pet murder,’ etc?

      • SciWatcher

        Richelieu, you’re awesome!

  • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

    I have a question regarding the numbers churches and potential members.

    The video references 11k+ churches, missions, etc. and the Idle Orgs shown are humongous (I used to frequent one of the sites that has been renovated into one of these monstrosities)

    Karen Pouw’s letter references millions of Scientologists

    Dividing churches by potential members (with simple math) … that’s 90 people per location (if one assumes a million followers)

    The question? Do these people show up at the same time on a frequent basis?

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    I am already anticipating a follow-up documentary in a year or so covering where they are now, telling about Karen’s loss of her son and them not letting her see him at the mortuary, a summary of some of the litigation, and the continued journey of Marty and the Indies in contrast to the Co$, etc.

    • sharon brown

      I hope so ! She’s hysterical and a wealth of negative info on the church’s workings and what the church did to her was awful.

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    For those who do not partake, here are some snippets from Rinder’s:

    * DCOT says, “I have recently learned from a Sea Org member at Flag that all the
    people that Marty declared was having their declares expunged.”

    * Rinder says,”Mosey is an auditor now. And her TR’s ARE exemplary.”

    * The Oracle says…. the usual.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      * The Oracle says…. the usual.

      Laughing my ass off!

      • Captain Howdy

        I’m nearing the end of my “The Wire” marathon and I cognited that the Oracle is Marlo’s homicidal hit woman “Snoop”.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      1subgenious, i just saw your reply to my comment on the other thread… gmta!

  • richelieu jr

    Thanks so much for this, Tony… I still think you could have been trusted t give a review (whilst admitting you perhaps prejudices) but this sort of thing s so useful.. Particularly the info about the two Joannes… That was something I had already filed way as fact…

    • Captain Howdy

      Holy shit!..and I thought I was wasted 🙂

  • richelieu jr

    I can only salut the Church for going after people “impersonating a human person online.”

    If Hubbard and Miscavige have taught us anything, it is that “being an inhuman person everywhere’ is the only way to go.

  • richelieu jr

    Hey, what is going on with Discus? It prints a version of what were writing up above without possibility of correction or response…

    • Missionary Kid

      Sometimes I’ve found I have to close and re-open my browser.

  • CommunicatorIC

    The Squirrel Busters Song: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32129-In-honor-of-the-Squirrel-Busters

    If there’s a Squirrel

    in your neighborhood

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    If there’s a weird SP

    and he don’t look good

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    If you’re seeing Body Thetans

    running through your head

    Who can you call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    An invisible Body Thetan

    sleeping in your bed

    Oh, who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    If you’re all alone

    pick up the phone

    And call:

    Squirrel Busters!

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    I hear they like OTs

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    Well, if you’ve had a dose of

    a freaky Body Thetan baby

    You’d better call:

    Squirrel Busters! Ow!

    Let me tell you something

    Bustin’ makes me feel good

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    I ain’t afraid of no Squirrels

    Don’t get caught alone, oh no

    Squirrel Busters!

    When a Squirrel comes through your door

    Unless you just want some more

    I think you better call

    Squirrel Busters!

    Ow!

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

    Who you gonna call?

    Squirrel Busters!

  • Captain Howdy

    One of my all time favorites explaining how I feel about Scientology and magical thinking in general.

    Pray Loud

    “My mind
    It ain’t so open
    That anything
    Could crawl right in”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MExqepa-lMs

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I just showed my totally cool 20 year old niece pictures of the fake Scientology Navy……
    She is not nearly as cool when she snorts while she is laughing.

    • Missionary Kid

      Thanks, BTN. I ended up chuckling about 20 seconds at that one.
      Can anyone interpret what the ribbons and medals are for?

      • dbloch7986

        ranks, years of service, participation on special projects and acknowledgements for exemplary service in the name of scientology (i.e. murder, covering up a rape, putting someone on the rpf or abusing children)

        • Missionary Kid

          What I was looking for is J&D answers. Yours is that, but also, unfortunately, your answer is too true.
          Put out your donation address again, please.

        • Anonymookme

          Uh, I see. But it’s just a fake Navy, right? Their ribbons, buttons and bows hold the same meaning as their fake gibberish language=absolutely nothing.

          • Missionary Kid

            Exactly. To add: $cientology=Fake gibberish=absolutely nothing.

  • 1subgenius

    Speaking of douche Squirrel Busters, Mark Bunker just released a vid on youtube showing bearded douche-bag Richard Hurst doing ops in 2000. You’ll recognize him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJHutaT2VA

    • Unex Skcus

      Interesting clip! One of the few times I’ve heard a scilon actually *attempt* to have a discussion…

  • media_lush

    A bit off topic but I think if there’s ever a lawyer who you might want to take on scientology it might be this one:

    http://gawker.com/this-is-how-you-respond-to-an-unjust-cease-and-desist-l-514155395

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Absolutely! Brilliant letter–I couldn’t stop laughing!

    • sharon brown

      We Need to hire this lawyer to work with our talented lawyers and bring the Scions Down Permanently now ! !! The show was great for dissemination but not anything really new to us here as Tony is So Awesomely on top of things .

  • SP ‘Onage

    Sweet Lord, please make scientology quit whining!

    Now I’m whining about them whining about “Cheer Up Will Smith” whining at whiners who whine about the whiners whining about his shitty movie.

    This just proves Will Smith is a scientologist and he probably whined to them because he was butthurt.

    • AutOmatic

      Yep.

  • RMycroft

    I am Rick Mycroft, and I approve of this thread.

  • EnthralledObserver

    From the third letter at their hate website…
    “1) In the late 1950s while living in London, England, Mr. Hubbard conducted research into the phenomena of death and conclusively demonstrated the existence of past lives.”
    Sooo… how and where is this conclusive demonstration/evidence of the existence of past lives?

    • Missionary Kid

      It died with the Hub.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Maybe Marty knows where it is…??
        :p

        • Missionary Kid

          I doubt it. It was only in LRH’s brain, and that was dead long ago.

          • EnthralledObserver

            I doubt it was even in his brain… well, he imagined it, but that isn’t really ‘evidence’ to wog standard, is it?. :p

            • Missionary Kid

              Very little of what he did was “evidence” to wog standards, including the way he used the term “science” or said he performed “research.”

  • Sam Freeman

    Clearly the cult is so busy chasing it’s own tail that it can’t tell where it’s arse ends and it’s mouth begins.