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The Saga of David Mayo: Scientology’s Banished Tech Wizard

David_MayoJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He now has a new edition of the book out, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, there’s a large and active “independent” movement that has split away from the church and gets a lot of news coverage. But throughout its history Scientology has experienced schisms and breakaway groups. In particular, David Mayo’s “Advanced Ability Center” in Santa Barbara comes to mind. What are the basics that we should know about Mayo, his involvement in the upper level materials, and why church leader David Miscavige considered him such a threat?

JON: By 1982, David Mayo was regarded as Hubbard’s successor. Scientologists thought of him as the greatest of experts on the “technology” — or counseling procedures. Members were told that in 1978 Mayo had saved L. Ron Hubbard’s life by repairing mistakes and errors in his auditing, largely made while Hubbard had been auditing himself. Out of that work Mayo also helped develop New Era Dianetics for OTs or NOTs, which became New OT V a few years later.

THE BUNKER: Kima Douglas said that Hubbard had suffered a pulmonary embolism in 1975, and then in 1977-78 was very ill again, but he made her promise not to take him to a hospital. Instead, he turned to Mayo to audit him through his sickness, right?

JON: Yes, precisely so.

Mayo had succeeded to the fatal position of Hubbard’s auditor — all before him had failed and been cast into the outer darkness, including the first Class XII and supposed OT VIII, Otto Roos. As Hubbard’s auditor, Mayo had access to the great mass of auditing records of the Great OT. Like Roos, he found a great deal of discreditable material therein, including Hubbard’s astonishing multiple drug abuse. Hubbard said that people who “rock-slammed” on the e-meter had evil intentions, and, as Roos found earlier, Hubbard’s folders were littered with “rock slams.”

THE BUNKER: A “rock slam” meaning a particularly violent reaction by the e-meter’s indicator needle, slashing left and right in a crazy motion — and as you say Scientologists believe it indicates there’s an evil intention on the part of the person being tested.

JON: That’s right. Some people were expelled for a single rock slam. Hubbard managed hundreds. Mayo also realized, as Roos had before him, that many of the stories Hubbard told during auditing sessions were fabrications, simply because they contradicted one another. Hubbard picked Mayo because he was extraordinarily intelligent, systematic, and diligent. This is in part because Mayo was a physicist, and deeply imbued with scientific reasoning.

THE BUNKER: And what happened to Roos?

JON: Roos was “offloaded” for suggesting, after a review of every available scrap of Hubbard’s “pc folders,” that Hubbard had evil intentions that must be addressed. Roos became a very successful businessman, with outposts in Ireland, Holland, California, and New Zealand. He ticketed the huge Van Gogh retrospective in Amsterdam and runs architectural firms, too.

Mayo’s succession, through the post of Senior Case Supervisor International, put him in charge of all auditing and would have made him the Keeper of the Tech. Meanwhile, in 1981, a young Sea Org officer named David Miscavige and his cohorts were humiliating the “crims,” as the leaders of the Guardian’s Office were not-so-affectionately known at that time.

THE BUNKER: You’re referring to the prosecution of Guardian’s Office operatives for the Snow White Program, which was an infiltration and burglarizing of hundreds of government and private business offices. The Guardian’s Office had existed as Scientology’s intelligence operation since 1966, but between 1973 and 1977 its burglarizing activities are still the largest infiltration of the US government in its history. The FBI raided the church in 1977, and over the next few years, while eleven GO operatives were being prosecuted, Miscavige was among a new set of young executives in the Sea Org who began to take over.

JON: Indeed, I am. The cadre around Miscavige took Hubbard’s orders to isolate him from the GO very seriously. Mary Sue Hubbard, who headed the GO and went to prison to protect her husband from conviction, sent letters to Hubbard which were censored for any “entheta” — or negative comment — before it got to him. The letters were photocopied and the offending passages — any complaint or criticism — were cut out with a razor blade. Under Hubbard’s instruction, the Old Guard were gradually removed (not for the first time — there are very few survivors of any previous regime. From the very beginning, Hubbard hand-picked Suppressives to man his orgs, so poor were his SP-detection skills). The new “technology” which prompted this draconian offensive was called “roll back.” It looked to connections, so, if you had known anyone who was now considered Suppressive, you were under suspicion. Very like the old days of the Cheka under Stalin. With over 20 years of involvement, David Mayo inevitably knew almost all of the GO people. He was also a voice of tolerance and maturity, and chary of Hubbard’s paranoia. He refused to join in the witch-hunting, and so became a target in the McCarthyite atmosphere.

Scientology issued two bizarre documents about Mayo — a Suppressive Person Declare and a newsletter called “The Story of a Squirrel.” This last is barely literate, but claims to quote from Hubbard, who says: “Mayo was simply a bird dog. The definition of a bird dog is: ‘Somebody sent in by an enemy to mess things up’.” Hubbard goes on to say: “…you had a bird dog right in the middle of the control room: David Mayo. He was sabotaging execs by wrecking their cases. None of this was by accident or incompetence. Of all the crazy, cock-eyed sabotage I’ve ever seen, man, he was at it …” The effect of these publications ran counter to the new leadership’s intentions — many members simply decided that Hubbard could not have missed such a devastating SP for so many years, and this fed the rumor that Hubbard was no longer in control and caused many (myself included) to leave the cult.

THE BUNKER: It sounds like Mayo was part of neither the old guard or the new, and getting caught in the middle turned him into a target.

JON: There was no way that Miscavige could compete with Mayo’s influence. Neither Pat Broeker nor Miscavige were known to Scientologists. Mayo had been made a hero, even appearing in one of Hubbard’s dreadful “tech films” where he actually warned that if he became unavailable it would mean that Scientology had been taken over by malign elements. Hubbard approved that script.

Mayo stood in the way of the emerging leaders. He was vilified to the whole membership, but the affair went badly wrong, because Mayo had been lauded with such vigour in the preceding years. Libelling Mayo so publicly proved to be very serious, because Mayo became the inevitable focus for Scientologists who were disillusioned both by the revelations concerning the Guardian’s Office’s criminal activities and the aggression of the new, and unknown, leaders. Membership was probably around 25,000 in 1982. By 1984, about half the membership had left.

ScientologyMythbustingAs to the NOTs material, Mayo has said that he audited Hubbard on “misconceptions,” not on Body Thetans. When Hubbard had recovered somewhat, he engaged in his usual “research” method — he dictated bulletins to Mayo which had little bearing on the approach that Mayo had used. A series of over fifty bulletins were collected together. Once Mayo was ostracised, it was bruited about that those of us who had received OT V had been subjected to suppressive alterations of the true Tech. No offer was made to repair the damage. At least without paying $150 an hour for the privilege. Close scrutiny of the bulletins that put this “suppression” right shows that the text is identical, save that David Mayo’s name has been removed from them.

Mayo was already equivocal about the “Tech” before he left. In particular, he was concerned about OT III, and the OT levels in general. He felt that by letting people continue up the Bridge, they too would come to realize that this material was bogus. By the time Mayo left the Institute for Research into Metapsychology in Palo Alto in 1988, he had abandoned the OT levels altogether. He has also published his critique of New Era Dianetics, giving cogent reasons for its failure to achieve the promises made for it by Scientology.

Miscavige’s focus, once Mayo had been knocked out by extensive harassment and litigation, turned to Pat Broeker, Hubbard’s choice for leader. Miscavige suspected that Broeker had absconded with the missing upper OT levels. In the early 70s, Hubbard had announced that he had written down levels up to 23 (or XXIII, if you prefer to go roman). No trace has ever been found of anything beyond OT VIII, which palpably does not fulfill the promise of supernatural powers always attributed to it by Hubbard (to be ‘at cause over physical matter, energy, space and time’, that is, able to magically control the stuff of the universe). The Bridge never quite reached the other side, leaving the Dev-OTs of Scientology to tumble into the abyss below. At times, with money still unharvested in their bank accounts.

THE BUNKER: What was the Advanced Ability Center? And can you talk a little about the way it was dirty-tricked and sued out of existence?

JON: A small group of former high ranking Scientologists got together in Santa Barbara, in 1983, and set up their own alternative to the cult — the AAC. They included Mayo and his wife Julie, former Executive Director International John Nelson, and Harvey Haber, who had produced the tech films and paid St Martin’s Press to publish Battlefield Earth (the cult bought the first 40,000 copies and gave $250,000 for promotion). Bob Mithoff, brother of Mayo’s replacement, was also there from the start, but it turned out that he was there to spy on them for Scientology. It’s worth noting that even with a spy in their midst, the AAC failed to be shut down by Scientology, which says a lot for the AAC’s high standard of ethics. Eventually, it was the pressure of litigation that closed the place. Mayo had moved to the Institute for Research into Metapsychology, run by psychiatrist Frank Gerbode (the only psychiatrist in Scientology!).

When Mayo was hit with his first lawsuit, his legal team consulted me, and I recommended that they ask for documents that the cult had offered in the claim for the tax exemption for the Church of Spiritual Technology. I obtained the necessary documents from the court in DC. As predicted, Scientology claimed that they did not have the documents, which we then presented, showing that the cult had abused the legal discovery process. The suit was dismissed and the cult was ordered to pay $2.4 million in costs to Mayo’s lawyers — which profited Mayo not at all (and me not much — I charged $1,000 for my involvement.)

The IRM was sued for plagiarism a few years later. Gerbode had removed all references to Hubbard from his textbook about “metapsychology” so that the American Psychological Association would validate his course as part of training in psychology. The cult found out and accused him of plagiarism. Gerbode sued. Mayo had left the IRM by this time. I showed over 100 incidences of plagiarism in Hubbard’s own work, but Gerbode had lost his nerve and met with Miscavige to settle. Rumour has it that Gerbode gave some $4 million in IOUs from Mayo (for yet more legal costs) to Miscavige, so bankrupting Mayo.

I consulted to both cases.

THE BUNKER: Hasn’t Mayo in general been the subject of ferocious Fair Game?

JON: David Mayo was harassed for years. He was the subject of at least one murder attempt. I spent a month in Palo Alto in 1986, where I first interviewed Mayo and I was impressed by his sober grasp. He described without rancor the horrors of his own treatment -– for instance, being forced to run round a pole planted in the desert for hours on end –- and he was very precise. I was most impressed by his obvious distress when adulated, which happened a few times during my stays in Palo Alto. He very obviously didn’t want to assume Hubbard’s narcissistic mantle. I’m very glad that he didn’t take Scientology over, because I might have been tempted to stay in the fold. Wherever he is now, I wish him peace and fulfillment. He deserves it.

THE BUNKER: Mayo is a fascinating story.

UPDATE: And here’s David Mayo today…



Posted by Tony Ortega on April 12, 2013 at 07:00


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  • Bradley Greenwood

    There seems to be no end to interesting ex-sci stories; love them!

  • This is the stuff I like reading about. The “deep cuts” if you will. People can go on about Hubbard all day but the offshoots, the copies of copies. That’s the good stuff.

  • B.B. Broeker

    After Pat Broeker’s, Mayo’s is the story I’d most love to hear from his own lips. I have no interest in hearing any confidential infor from LRH’s PC folder – it’s the firsthand observation of the development of the tech that fascinates.

    Somewhat relatedly, I’ve long believed that there’s a terrific stage play to be written with the Mayo-LRH auditing sessions as an inspiration.

    • David Mayo and the late Alan Walter could both have written fascinating books about the history and allure of a relatively obscure and simplistic psychotherapy movement which has had such a malign influence over so many lives.

      Perhaps the word ‘had’ in the previous sentence was just wishful thinking on my part. Scientology still destroys lives, particularly young lives; those of children brought up in the cult by selfish parents who abnegate any responsibility towards them and instead sacrifice them to Moloch.

      Hubbard’s writings and dictates reek of evil, manipulation and control. So why do otherwise apparently intelligent and decent people genuflect to a such a false prophet? I have no idea.


  • Captain Howdy

    So in 1984 there were only like 12,000 scientologists left in the world? That doesn’t jibe with what I’ve read in numerous places. Supposedly, CofS all-time peak membership was in the late 80’s. Also, if there was an attempted murder of Mayo by D.M it would be nice to hear the evidence.

    • Observer

      Up arrow for using jibe instead of jive. You have my thanks.

      • Captain Howdy

        You mean i got it right? lol

        • Observer

          Yes indeedy.

          • Captain Howdy

            Hooray, because I can’t even remember taking english grammar let alone what they tried to teach me in it.

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s not a matter of grammar, but knowing the definition. I think it started out from the nautical term, which is

              jibe Verb
              Change course by swinging a fore-and-aft sail across a following wind.
              Be in accord; agree.
              An act or instance of jibing.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks for the com line word clear to my terminal MK.

            • Missionary Kid

              Hey, you used it right, and I congratulate you. You might have learned it sailing, or, as I did, reading something like 2 Years Before the Mast. The problem is, it sounds so similar to the modern term, jive, that people often use that instead.

              Observer is also one sharp cookie, too.

            • Midwest Mom

              The first time I yelled “Jibe Ho!” while sailing with my then boyfriend (now husband), He didn’t move. I yelled it again. He still didn’t move! When the wind knocked the boom to his side of the boat, he landed in the water (of course) but luckily didn’t get hit.

              One year later he proposed to me while sailing on my sailboat. We’ve been jibing ever since. 😉

            • Observer


            • FistOfXenu

              Really Observer? My wife and I have considered jibing one of the highlights our marriage for decades. And the older we get the more we jibe. Where’s the scandal in that?

            • Observer

              lol, you jiber you. At least you’re not jiving more and more.

            • FistOfXenu

              Okay, you lost me there. Must be an in joke I don’t know

            • Midwest Mom

              “Tis better to jibe with your wife, than to jive your wife”

              I think Obsie means “jiving” in the sense of being deceptive or foolish, not in reference to the swing dance definition.

              I wouldn’t jive you wrong, Fisty. 🙂

            • FistOfXenu

              I love that film! Thanks for the reminder.

            • Observer

              Only in my own head. Every time I hear someone use the word jive I think of Barbara Billingsley speaking jjive in Airplane. I’m weird like that.

            • Midwest Mom

              Oh, stewardess. I speak jive!

    • I think it may be closer to 100,000 Scientologists around 1980, 50,000 in 1990 and maybe 20-30,000 today. That’s why those beautiful course rooms in Ideal Orgs never have people in them.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Reduce by about 40% and it would be closer.

  • When I got in, in 1985 I was sent (by my org) to Flag to train. In the MAA (ethics) office was the David Mayo;Story of a Squirrel. I was brand new and didn’t understand it. All I knew was that David Mayo was a bad guy. For over two decades I thought he was the devil incarnate.

    I didn’t know until I left that he was being fair gamed, libeled, etc. To this day I feel betrayed and so manipulated. I would have liked to have known who he really was instead of the fabricated nonsense that the cult hoisted upon us.

    Inside, many people still believe that David Mayo was the ultimate bad guy while they ignore all the bad going on around them. Bogeymen (scapegoats) are quite valuable in Scientology. They are manufactured with no qualms or respect for the truth.

    • Poison Ivy

      “Bogeymen (scapegoats) are quite valuable in Scientology. They are manufactured with no qualms or respect for the truth.” A hallmark of narcissistic personality disorder is the need to never take responsibility for the messes one makes in life. They are ALWAYS caused by others or outside circumstances. So with Scientology, an organization created by a malignant narcissist, currently run by a malignant narcissist.

    • He is the “Emmanuel Goldstein” (target of the “Two Minutes’ Hate” in 1984, possibly an early founder of the Ingsoc party who broke with Big Brother, or possibly a fiction created by the Ministry of Truth)

  • Observer

    “In 1978, members were told that Mayo had saved Hubbard’s life by repairing mistakes and errors in his auditing, largely made while Hubbard had been auditing himself.”

    Wait, what? Hubbard screwed himself up to the point of death while auditing himself, presumably in the “exactly correct” manner he constantly harped on?

    HELLO, SCIENTOLOGISTS! L. Ron Hubbard either A) was a bumbling idiot who nearly killed himself with his supposedly beneficial “tech” because he couldn’t apply it standardly himself while harshly punishing everyone else for out tech, or B) made it all up, so everything he or anyone else said about auditing was a big fat pack of lies, and his real troubles had nothing to do with engrams but were far darker and more disturbing than anything he taught you.

    If A), why aren’t you following David Mayo, who fixed what your precious Source screwed up? And if Source screwed himself up, what on earth do you think that little pipsqueak David Miscavige is doing to you with his revisionist GAT, especially since by all accounts he’s not even on the Bridge? If B), why are you spending your money and the dwindling amount of time you have left on a big fat pack of lies?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Do you have to choose just one?

      • Observer

        Seriously, this story is creeping around under my skin. I want to knock some heads together.

        • Read Julie Gillespie Mayo’s postings. She details, the predicaments.

          Julie used to be CS-4 Commodore’s Staff Aide Division 4 (tech).

          You have to realize that the young new staff coming into the Sea Org, moving up the ranks, moving up to where Hubbard was, working in the privileged positions near Hubbard, he always, as the cult leader, had that attraction (for all his innumerable downsides, his organized scapegoating and totalitarian viciousness his rules made the members perpetrate on each other), Hubbard still charmed a lot of followers.

          And once the staff followers followed evil Pied Piper Hubbard’s staff advancement ruts, they got the status associated with being close to him, etc, etc, and carrying out the Hubbard crazy script (fiction that it is).

          Julie and David’s writings, and Kima’s writings, and Jim Dincalci’s writings, and Liz Gablehouse’s writings, and John McMaster’s writings, and Ken Urquhart’s writings, and Dennis Erlich’s and Jesse Prince’s, and Vaughn Young’s writings—READ the ex top tier staffer’s writings, they nail what it was like under Hubbard!

          And Hana’s TV and Hana’s writings.

          The crazy life of top staff in Hubbard’s science fiction religion is truly mind warping, you always have to remember due to Hubbard’s false promises for the high spiritual state of “operating thetan”, which is the prize we each are supposed to get, at the end of the Hubbard rainbow Bridge to Total Freedom, the “piece of blue sky” he promises each of us.

          Hubbard’s script for staff (“church” policy) is a role NO people deserve! The Hubbard promise is “super powers” and regained spiritual abilities of “operating thetans”, pure soul abilities to supposedly be fully conscious, as conscious and aware as you are this second that you read this. But consider Hubbard said about Operating Thetans, that they don’t have to have bodies to operate. At the highest level of ability for a thetan (single soul that each of us are at our most primal level), we can be completely enlightened to the point of NOT having to have a body. It is a very heady spiritual concept.

          The lure of the whole Hubbard shebang, remember, is this primal powerful pure soul state.

          Operating Thetan, definition number 1, thanks to Ken Delderfield and the team that compiled and edited the red hardback “technical” dictionary of Scientology:

          “OPERATING THETAN, 1. a thetan exterior who can have but doesn’t have to have a body in order to control or operate thought, life, matter, energy, space an time….” – L. Ron Hubbard

          Soul astronauts, happy to be pure souls, doing whatever games one does, as those supposedly high spiritual states of being.

          Lawrence Wright’s book ends with the powerful firsthand story of where Hubbard headed, Hubbard’s plans for himself, which was to circle a distant star.

          Those trained on the Hubbard despatch traffic about the “running program” will recall in that despatch traffic Hubbard told of how old pure soul operating thetans would do huge elliptical ovals in outer space, as “therapy” for those operating thetans.

          That’s where Hubbard told his final close associates, Steven Sarge Pfauth, was what Hubbard planned he’d do, after leaving earth!

          It’s all about “OT”.

          And Hubbard, he’s in good company in earth history, since no one in earth’s history has demonstrated this “OT” power to fly about convincingly and scientifically provable (the late Ingo Swan included, who died is rather wretched conditions, a sort of well off poverty in NY City just last year I think, Ingo never got the full OT goodies Ingo admitted, in the end even).

          The young people smartly see a fraud quite easily, but the new religion scholars have pawed over all the reasons that despite the fraud and lack of results, people still go for the hope that they can get something out of it all:

          • Observer

            Thank you, Chuck. Your insight is always enlightening and helpful.

            I know that these people have been mentally conditioned to accept LRH’s word as absolute truth, even when it contradicts itself, and at great cost to themselves. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating though. This cult can’t go down in flames soon enough.

          • FLUNK_101

            Chuck, remember “The Secret Of Flag Results,” starring David Mayo?

            Talk about “seventies awesomeness” … that movie was a “cult classic!”

            Is it true that all copies were destroyed? I want to see it again so bad!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No bootlegs? Did you dig?

            • Dang, that poster looks like it could be the cover of a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

    • Taking a wider view of the “Tech,” even though it is claimed that it is 100 percent effective when applied correctly, virtually ALL of the new “tech” issued since 1950 has been either excuses why the old tech doesn’t work and new attempts to make it work. This includes Miscavige’s Golden Showers of Tech. If they are really about the way Ron wanted it done, why didn’t he have them do it that way when he was alive & well connected to auditors? Even when you randomly look at HCOBs from the red volume, many of them describe auditing or C/S errors and “here’s the right way to do it”

    • You don’t understand. The Commodore was doing advanced research for the benefit of us all, and that’s really dangerous work.

  • Vistaril

    The “Dead Agenting” continues to this day . . .

    . . . I am not saying Mayo was not a good auditor or C/S. And I am certainly
    not condemning him as a person – after all, irrespective of his motives,
    he did play a large role in breaking the monopoly. I am saying he lied
    through his teeth when he said he discovered, developed and wrote NOTs . . .

    . . . as Gerry Armstrong pointed out, much of the DA work appears to have been out-sourced.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      And so it goes……

    • Marty has come a long way since that blog post my friend.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Is there a post at Marty’s that is in contradiction to the one above? Or one that shows he has changed his thoughts on this?
        We are all ears and open mindedness!

      • Vistaril

        Huh? Marty still equates Scientology to quantum physics, L Ron Hubbard to Buddha, and perpetuates the myth that Scientology’s enemy policy was required at the time it was introduced.

        • Snippy_X

          Just to nitpick a little, he doesn’t exactly equate them.

      • now Marty is claiming he can spot a sociopath/psychopath …ya know ..cause he read a book about it. So now ..anyone who calls him out not only an SP …but Marty can now call you a sociopath or a psychopath …cause he knows how to pick them out of a crowd. It’s true…he read a book about it. Heck can read it too …he even put it on his reading list for you Oprah. I wonder what he would have to say about the treatment of David Mayo ?

        • hogarthian

          Psychopathy is tricky to spot…. most of us are somewhere on the ‘official’ scale. Sociopathy….. a good bit easier to identify. I wonder if Marty realises that the kind of person who takes on a paid position which requires them to travel thousands of miles to forcibly retrieve damaged, vulnerable people from their escape attempts could, in a lot of books, be considered sociopathic? I guess not.

        • Anonymookme

          Marty & his Merry Band of Mush Heads also think that Hubbard was way ahead of his time & that science is just now catching up to the genius of Hub the charlatan

          • Observer

            Yeah, that’s why Scientology is stuck in the 50s–not because it’s a dated, anachronistic product of its time, but because LRH was *so* far ahead that he lapped us and is now coming up behind. 60 years behind.

        • FistOfXenu

          Marty sounds more and more like Liar Ron Humptydumpty every day. He’s not so much leaving $cientarCONon as turning into its clone.

    • California

      The “out-sourcing” of D.A.’ing or third-party attacks fails in the long run when the allegations are directly addressed to the “outsource-ee,” especially if mutual friends/acquaintances are also cc’ed on the matter at hand.

      The “outsource-ee” usually have been duped, are not attached to SCN and are just in it for the giggles…. not saying that these are always nice people, you understand. When politely and directly faced with the facts, with mutual friends involved, they generally fold on the D.A.-ing.

      Nasty stuff but it all comprises teachable moments…. people do learn to not listen to the D.A. about the SCN-targeted person in question. And they get a fast education about SCN and their tactics.

      Be polite and kind when confronting the “outsource-ee”, please. It pays off in the long run.

  • Observer

    This story makes me want to run down the street screaming in frustration.

    Q: If Elron was so powerful, how on earth did so many SPs, bird dogs, whatever you want to call them, repeatedly slip past his superhuman perception and into his inner circle?

    A: He had no superhuman powers of any kind. He was a sadistic, narcissistic, silver-tongued, fantasist, charlatan pulp sci-fi writer.

    • Missionary Kid


    • Sherbet

      Same thing with the Martys, Marcs, Nancys, Mikes, Claires etc. etc. If they’re all lying liars, how did they achieve any status within cos under DM? How’s that SP radar working, DM?

      • grundoon

        David Miscavige’s SP radar is working perfectly! He’s spotted that every single person working for him at Int Base is suppressive, and he’s acted quickly to solve the problem by assigning them all to the Hole or the RPF or offloading them, canceling their posts and titles, and holding all of their posts from above. Aside from his ongoing programs to rehabilitate the Int Base suppressives, DM has initiated programs to root out the SPs wherever they may hide throughout the Scientology empire, and handle or disconnect them or hammer them out of existence. In the new Golden Age of Ethics, all around the planet, wherever you are on the Bridge, the IJC will be your only terminal!

        • FistOfXenu

          But he’s missing the biggest SP in $cientarCONon. Himself. He’s the guy in The Good Ship Lollicult that’s been drilling the biggest hole in the bottom of the boat.

          • Sherbet

            Ssshhh, Fist. Let him keep drilling, and he won’t know what hit him.

            • FistOfXenu

              Fair enough. Let’s everybody keep telling him there’s oil down there. And the missing upper OT levels.

        • Sherbet

          Oh, is that DM’s plan, grundoon? Pretty soon he can play Musical Chairs and have all the seats to himself.

    • Artoo45

      I just watched a “Sunday Talk” video of David Mayo trying to justify why he still believed in the tech even when the organization was so massively fucked up. It was really sad and delusional. He seems a lovely fellow, too. But yeah, run down the street screaming time.

  • Captain Howdy

    So Mayo is a physicist and Frank Gerbode has enough academic credentials and honors to make god jealous — and is continuing the woo-woo with his Metapsychology rubbish — so what is wrong with these people? Do they prove the cliche “so smart they’re stupid” or what?

    • sugarplumfairy

      I sometimes work with an apparently brilliant endocrinology fellow.. So brilliant that he’s been known to walk into doors and windows while thinking his great thoughts.. He talks to himself incessantly and ignores anyone he considers inferior, which is pretty much everybody.. One day we were working together and he was talking, to himself again.. I said “do you really have to talk to yourself?’ he said, ‘I wouldn’t, if there were someone of comparable intelligence around..’ I said ‘Dr. P, I’m not that much smarter than you..’ he looked at me like I had two heads, but he finally laughed..

      Some brains are just different.. You’d think David Mayo would have been the one to bust scientology tech.. Instead, he espouses it.. ugh..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That story just made my morning….I just pictured this whole exchange! Bravo!

        • sugarplumfairy

          And you just made my morning.. You always make me feel good, Bury..

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Thanks,…now you made me feel good!

      • david is no longer involved in scietology in any way. i mean of course i cant speak for him but thats the clear impression i get.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m glad to hear he made it out..

      • Missionary Kid

        Are you sure he isn’t the basis for Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory? If he isn’t, you might be able to write a script for the show.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Love that show.. Especially Wolowitz and Koothrappali..

    • Poison Ivy

      Here here Capt!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    That was, indeed, a fascinating story. I had heard about Mayo but never had the facts laid out so completely. Thank you.

    It is nice that he abandoned the OT levels. I hope that he has or will one day abandon engrams, clear, and the whole of Dianetics.

    I couldn’t help think of Isaac Newton, perhaps the most brilliant man man in history, having written a million words on alchemy. I read an essay recently, saying that Newton was both the first scientist and the last mystic.

    Beyond John Atack’s story, a recorded lecture by Mayo and a bit of conversation, I really know nothing about Mayo. He sounds like a man of courage and intelligence who looked at Scientology and found it to be sorely lacking. But what happens when you take the core out of Scientology? Is it like sifting through a million words on alchemy? Or is it unlike alchemy, which at least became the father of chemistry?

    Scientology cannot become the father of anything. It was the son of Flash Gordon, Amway, mid-Century psychology and P.T. Barnum. The son is sterile though it’s parents might have other kids. Is there anything there worth preserving that can’t be found elsewhere, cheaper and without a lot of baggage attached? Can the mess that is Scientology be examined closely, to produce even a small amount of good for people? From what I have seen (and I know that is not a lot but I do have some perspective) the answer is no. The “wisdom” or “technology” comes with a huge amount of pseudo-science, arrogance and an unhealthy amount of distrust of the established institutions in our society.

    Maybe something could be achieved by sifting through Scientology, sifting through the product of that sieve, and then sifting through that product. There wouldn’t be much there though and I would be sure to give that another sifting, to make sure.

    • mirele

      Scientology is actually the father of quite a lot! We know there are dozens of groups out there whose founders went through Scientology at some point. Yesterday, in fact, I made the discovery that the space-alien group whose experience inspired the discovery of “cognitive dissonance” was led by a woman who had been through early 1950s Dianetics! (

      I’m thinking there’s room for a discussion about all the groups out there that were inspired by Hubbard–have any gotten larger than that of the master?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        So LRH gave us Cognitive Dissonance, indirectly as well as directly?
        Imma have to take an asprin.

        • Missionary Kid

          I wouldn’t give him credit for that. There was a lot of different theories, wacko and otherwise, that were being tried out at that time, and people would float in and out of the movement of the month.

          There was also a lot of stuff that went on in the 60s New Age crap [my word] where one movement would borrow or adopt form another.

          I think there are parallels in protestant sects of Christianity, but that’s just my opinion probably because that’s my experience.

          • Missionary Kid

            I should add that the New Age crap also enabled people to come out of their shell.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            That was my Saturday morning attempt at Joking and Degrading!
            I don’t give that SOB credit for anything except fking people up!

            • Missionary Kid

              (I’ve been traveling for the last 3 days). I took you too seriously, which is often my weakness online. I’m still finding my way around this group. 😉

          • Poison Ivy

            There were cults before Scientology, and scam scoundrels before Scientology. Hubbard happened upon a formula for brainwashing that worked, but he only codified it. He didn’t invent it.

      • Captain Howdy

        Perhaps EST had more customers than CofS in the 70’s, 80’s?

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          See my comment on Landmark Education. I think EST was and as Landmark, remains bigger. Decades ago a friend was shocked to find out about my previous involvement with the Cult of Scientology. At that time her whole family was up to their necks in Jake Rosenberg’s cult, EST. (Just kidding about the cult stuff. Jake’s brother has been known to sue people who call Landmark a cult. Ixnay on the Ultcay.)

          • Captain Howdy

            I (and my parents) got my high school teacher fired for trying to use EST to teach us algebra. This was after he threw me out of the class for pointing out to him that EST was a cult and what he was doing was illegal and against school policy. This was like 73 or 74.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I can just see it. “Mr. Jones, can I go to the bathroom, please?” “You won’t be leaving this room, especially to use the bathroom. And spit out that gum.”

            • Captain Howdy

              Yea, he was this Indian dude who use to wear nehru jackets and if he didn’t like your answer or you didn’t do your homework he would start interrogating and belittling you. He made more than one kid cry. Me, I just wanted to sleep and this mofo kept waking me up! I was born a morbid Adams Family kid so I was already aware of the different cults and other freaky stuff.

            • grundoon


          • ThetaBara

            Didn’t Landmark come out of EST, after Erhard got discredited?
            I used to work for a company which did a lot of business with Landmark people (we were selling a service they used) and they were all very, very nice. If a bit weird. I always thought they were ESTies.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Yeah, Erhard pulled a slight of hand. It left behind the most obviously disgusting parts of EST, like not letting people go to the washroom. But like Scientology, the message seems to be that a person is responsible for their own situation and through Landmark they can find the things that can be done to improve their lot. It breaks down your personality and replaces it with a Landmark approved one while they earn a profit. Searching it on google tends to lead to people who thought it might have been a cult but certainly seemed OK when they got there. I suppose they expected people in robes and virgin sacrifice. I didn’t think it seemed OK when I got there. I could go on about the specifics of the weirdness but it would take too long in this forum.

              The most disgusting part though, was the love bombing. There were about 200 people at the downtown hotel. A dozen or so had brought raw meat with them. The person who brought them along had to introduce the raw meat. They both stood up while the Landmark veteran said that the person they brought along was the sweetest, nicest, most decent person in the world, who changed their life and all those around them for the better. This would end in a big hug from the veteran and wild applause from the crowd. The raw meat often broke into tears.

              I knew that Landmark was some kind of con when my friend told me about it. I looked for information on the internet. When my friend and I walked into the hotel it reminded me a lot of my experiences with Scientology– desks where people were being signed up, too many questions being asked of me, a soft sell of members telling me how wonderful their lives were (thanks to Landmark), all accompanied by shit-eating grins. I told my friend, and I quote because I rehearsed the words, “This is something we cannot share”. She did not ask me to stand up and accept love bombing. I told her the rest of my complaints later. What can I say? She “acknowledged” my complaints, not evaluating for me. I met her friends. They weren’t stupid. Neither was she.

              Not surprisingly, our relationship didn’t last.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks Korgo..and I want to get that book.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              It is called Outrageous Betrayal The Dark Journey of Werner Erhard from est to Exile by Steven Pressman. I bought it on Amazon for almost nothing plus the cost of postage.

            • Poison Ivy

              I’ve read it; it’s great. Erhard, like Hubbard, is the classic cult leader personality.

            • Poison Ivy

              As I said, close to a dozen colleagues (and some friends) I know have taken Landmark courses to a degree. An ex boyfriend did too before we met (and he was a piece of work). A few of the colleagues got pretty deep into it and all tried up and down to get me to take a course. ( They also tried to push me to get my “colors done” for $800. You pay that money and some lady gives you a “color wheel” of what you can wear. Sorry. I like to choose my own colors! I’m an artist at heart and it’s my prerogative. I don’t care what YOU say my ‘power color’ is, if I like teal, I’m wearing teal!). These are people who, IMHO, are seeking some sort of spiritual connection to fill a void they don’t even know they have, as well as some one-size-fits-all solutions to the horrendously complex problems of modern life (none of which have easy solutions.) I don’t blame them for seeking. Of those colleagues, probably half of them (as far as I know, maybe more) drifted out of it eventually. But you can’t really “drift” out of Scientology that easily.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Great post. I am about to go out of the house and do something that has nothing at all to do with cults, religious or otherwise. A longer reply will follow, but maybe not until tomorrow.

          • Poison Ivy

            I don’t see it as a full-blown cult the way CO$ is (or EST was), or Moonies, etc. It’s cultlike in terms of its persuasion techniques and the way it creates a dependence on the organization while bilking you of money, but as I mentioned above, it’s a cult that is fairly simple to leave, at least physically. There is no real milieu control, shunning or a charismatic leadership figure who becomes Godlike.

        • John P.

          Yes, EST had a lot more customers in the late 1970s and early 1980s. From what I understand, they were running something like 40,000 people a year through the EST training basic course and probably had half that number stick around for some period of time taking other courses afterwards.

          If you look at my long comment below, I point out that the Scientology organization spends an inordinate amount of time demonizing capable people who disagree with those in power, and making permanent scapegoats of them, which ultimately backfires. They do this instead of focusing on making sure they’re selling a “product” that people want to “buy.” When EST registrations started to stall in the mid 1980s, they took a long hard look at what didn’t work about their “tech” and revamped it end-to-end where it was reborn as “Landmark Education.” Founder Werner Erhard realized that his own personal controversies were part of the EST image problem, and he retired and dropped out of sight shortly thereafter.

          Landmark claims to have had over 2 million people take its basic program, which is not unreasonable at a rate of 75,000 per year for nearly 30 years (more realistic than some of Scientology’s obviously bogus number). So applying a normal business practice (change the product to better fit what customers want when demand drops for the old one) seems to work even in the world of self-help groups. But apparently that’s not in the Scientology DNA.

          • mirele

            They can’t do that because that would involve denying Hubbard, and that’s the number one cardinal sin of Scientology, denying Source.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I read a book called Outrageous Betrayal, about Werner Erhard/Jake Rosenberg. It’s a good book. It mentions the connection between EST and Scientology but doesn’t concentrate on it. For people like us, it is about the evolution of a cult.

            When Erhard skipped the country, his cult was under attack from within, from the government and from disgruntled former members who were suing. They did a slight of hand by handing it to Erhard’s brother while making the actual ownership a little hard to understand, and changing its name to Landmark.

            While I think Erhard was ultimately no better than Hubbard, to give credit where it is due, he did not make it a religion when it wasn’t one, and was up front about it being a for profit company. In the same way Hubbard was primarily a Science Fiction writer, Erhard/Rosenberg had been a used car salesman. Scientology looks like an SF novel. EST looks like a used car.

            • Poison Ivy

              And speaking of Landmark, any fans of “Six Feet Under” remember the story arc about “The Plan”? That was based on Landmark.

          • Poison Ivy

            Did he retire? Or did he disappear because of potentially disastrous legal situations.

          • DeElizabethan

            I learn something new each day, thanks John P.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Chris Rock has a really funny gag where he says, “Don’t hate white men. Your daughter will come home with one. Don’t hate cops, your son will become one”. I went out with a lovely woman. It turned out she was a member of Landmark Education.

        • Poison Ivy

          I know a lot of people in Hollywood who’ve had romances – some brief, some long, with Landmark Forum. A famous person close to me and quite well known and beloved and respected STILL swears by her high level EST training. The difference is, these people drift in and out of these organizations. Landmark definitely pressures you and rips you off, but you don’t lose you family once you tire of it and move on to TM or yoga or Crossfit. And you aren’t threatened with the equivalent of limbo (not to mention your part in the destruction of mankind.)

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Thanks for all the comments. My own experiences, for the most part, parallel your own. A friend once remarked that you could take everything Hubbard wrote that was worthwhile, and put it in a thin, small volume. I had hoped that Landmark was that volume.

            I don’t think it was. It tried to replace your personality with a Landmark approved personality and profit from doing it. That is as good a definition of cult as any. The costs were high but I can’t be specific there and I don’t know it from the inside. It was time consuming. My friend, who seemed to love it, goes off to San Francisco and Los Angeles frequently on Landmark junkets. I don’t know if it actually does her a lot of good, or really, any good at all. I am absolutely certain that I handle my challenges in life better than she does. Also, she was critical of others. She didn’t cut people much slack, finding fault in what I saw as very superficial ways. She didn’t understand that there are seven billion different ways people can live happy, ethical lives.

            The other Landmarkers I met had good jobs, made a lot of money and were smart at that their jobs. Many were very academically accomplished. They were also smug. They were unrealistic. They would be ignored if they were with the gang at my old place of work, over in my locker room, at the gatherings I attend or even down at the Chinese Restaurant spending an evening talking over a ten dollar meal. I know I am not being very specific.

            My dear friend, though she made at least as much money as I do and had fewer children, sold Amway. I don’t know how she got into that or why she needed the money. Not selling Amway would have done her more good than all the Landmark courses combined. I had to wonder how she came to be an Amway salesman and if Landmark had anything to do with it.

            She was very proud that a Canadian Company, Lulu Lemon, had a founder who was in Landmark up to his eyebrows and that he got all his employees to take Landmark training. I thought about the sixteen zillion Canadian companies whose founders had not gone to Landmark and did good business just the same.

            She peppered her talk with odd phrases and heavy ideas that seemed out of place.

            With all that she was a very good person. I wouldn’t hang out with her friends, but I realize that they might feel the same way about me.

            I agree that they didn’t disconnect, harass at leaving, feed you space opera or tell you about engrams. I don’t know if they had an equivalent of Scn. ethics, or how oppressive their prices were, or how much their looked up to their founder. Also, I don’t know if their teachings make any sense. The evidence I saw, my friend and her associates, showed me nothing special. I don’t know if their teachings, even if they do make sense, are needed guys like me who manage just fine without them.

            The only other thing I can do is look at the founder and ask if he passes the test of, “Doctor, heal thyself”. He seemed to have been a huckster and a skunk, if I am to believe the book I read. And, though I never got into so deeply that I think of myself as any sort of authority, I would just caution people who are thinking of entering it. They may lose a lot of money and time and have little to show for it but the delusion that their personality is changing for the better.

            When I mentioned to an old friend that my new girlfriend was in Landmark, he responded quickly, “Isn’t that some kind of scam?” Maybe it is not a cult. Maybe it’s just some kind of scam.

            • ThetaBara

              Oh, it’s a scam. An expensive scam.

              Rather like Lululemon, actually. They have some dodgy marketing practices.

              Have you heard that the founder said in an interview that he chose the name because it would be really funny to hear Asian women mispronounce it? What a winner.
              Go, Landmark.

      • Yeah, how about est, for example. “Werner Erhard” was a guy named Jack Rosenbaum who changed his name for obvious reasons and was on the HSDC at San Francisco Org with a close friend of mine (Bob Waldman). Another person was on the HSDC with me at the Berkeley Mission and was found stealing materials for Werner, which he turned into est. In the 1980s, LRH wanted Central Marketing to study est’s marketing because they were making a ton of dough and he wanted to know what they were doing with ripped off basic Scn data.

        I also heard that Sylvan Mind Control was taken from Scn but don’t know enough about it to make the case one way or the other.

        • Some might argue the other way around; that Hubbard stole ideas from José Silva.

          ‘Silva Mind Control’ was my cult and it certainly lacked the institutionalized nastiness of Scientology. Nor was it expensive.

          At its heart is the same wishful thinking that Scientology sells and can be effective in deluding people that by postulating hard enough in the approved way they can exteriororize and do all sorts of interesting things like jumping over tall buildings with a single mental leap, cure their ailments and get a taxi to stop on a rainy Saturday night in central London.

          Coincidence is unheard of; if it works then there’s the proof. If it doesn’t then you weren’t doing it right.


          • ThetaBara

            Wait, there was a cult with “Mind Control” IN THE NAME?!

          • BosonStark

            How interesting. I just read the Wiki on Silva Mind Control. I didn’t know Silva developed his method in the 40’s, so before Hubbard. The centers didn’t open until the 60’s. Although I never got involved with it, I was aware of their ads and little places around, much more than Scientology, and I always kind of respected that they were upfront with the “mind control” in the title, and not selling a mystery sandwich. Nor was it based on a piece of unreadable claptrap like Dianutty.

            I guess a few people, according to Wiki, had an experience with it screwing up their minds, but on the money-sucking end of it, or structure designed as a control trap, it was apparently minimal compared to Scientology.

            I dabbled in TM, just from reading about it, and I found it calming, fascinating and useful for many years although I rarely do it now. I was open to spiritual or mystical elements of it, but from the beginning, I didn’t see it that way, and never paid for or even indulged in classes for it or followed a guru. I saw it more as just practical, for creating focus, and more often, for inducing a simple peace or contentment.

      • Your link fails because the right parenthesis got attached to it (Disqus in an electronic incident again). This

        is what you wanted.

    • John P.

      It was the son of Flash Gordon, Amway, mid-Century psychology and P.T. Barnum.

      One-line quote of the week. Maybe of the month.

      • Poison Ivy

        Agreed. Brilliant, Mighty Korgo.

    • ThetaBara

      Alchemy was in fact early science. Distillation was invented by an alchemist (and a woman at that) so think of that next time you are enjoying an adult beverage!
      The alchemists had to write in code because you could get in big trouble with the church for doing science. You can’t take it literally at all; it is coded meaning upon coded meaning. It’s maddening (and a whole other rabbit hole).
      People act like alchemy and astrology are nothing but a load of silly old bs but both of them were attempts to systematically understand the world, and both were a lot more scientific than anything you’ll ever find by Elron!

      • Poison Ivy

        “both were a lot more scientific than anything you’ll ever find by Elron!” Here here! And far more original as well!

    • Mighty Korgo, the answer to your question is yes, something worthwhile could be salvaged. Get yourself a copy of Self Analysis and do the exercises for half hour a day for a week or two and get some personal reality on it. BTW, agreed with John P. on your Flash Gordon line. Priceless.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the kind recommendation, Joe. I actually did the SA lists as part of the HQS course. I don’t remember them that well though I do remember endlessly telling someone to touch a table and touch his ear. I remember OP PRO BY DUP, getting duped. I remember that the cognitions people had, myself included, were pretty lame. I haven’t recommended the SA lists to anyone else over the past decades. I got rid of the book about four years after taking the course. I actually don’t think I need the SA lists. I am pretty happy together guy as it is, even if I do say so. They might make other happy, together guys even happier and more together but I have already given them a shot. I will look for other ways now to be happier and more together.

        Thanks for the kind words re: Flash Gordon. I should have added that the Mafia was their uncle and that the Three Stooges were their cousins.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “…This is in part because Mayo was a physicist, and deeply imbued with scientific reasoning…”

    I’m befuddled..

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Because people will believe what they “choose” too. And they will use reason to make an argument to justify it.
      Yes, …even physicist’s! This study is a related example of not practicing what we preach.

      There is also another study, but I can’t site it right now!…but it basically said something to the effect that in a controlled group, Scientist’s had admitted to fudging their test results in favor of their personal argument…but only when it would not be detrimental to the overall test results (yeah right!)
      Doesn’t that make you feel warm and fuzzy!

      • sugarplumfairy

        I guess scientists are the second ‘most ethical group’ on the planet..

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Third actually….Politicians are second.

          • Captain Howdy

            Let me guess..lawyers are fourth?

            • That’s unfair to lawyers, they deserve a higher ranking!


    • FistOfXenu

      Parsons was a rocket scientist, and he sat around with LRH mastubating to create a magical woman right? You don’t have to be stupid to be tricked.

    • Poison Ivy

      Yes, I caught that too! Nothing pisses me off more than people who still intimate that there is ANYTHING remotely scientific about Scientology.

  • BosonStark

    If you watch Mayo on YouTube, except for Hubbard’s repeated incongruous smiles (establishing ARC?), he’s more thoughtful, and tolerable — humble also. Unfortunately, the videos are not about helping raw meat understand the tech, and he’s just riddled with clam-speak that doesn’t make much sense to me, nor do I see the superiority of Hubbard crap some aspects of Eastern religion, which Mayo talks about in one video, where he uses an example of freeing oneself of desire, combined with some things about expectations.

    The paradox is, that if Mayo audited Hubbard and had access to his files, why didn’t he have a Gerry Armstrong-like revelation? Hubbard lied a lot, and even more so than Gerry could see, the tech did not work for Hubbard himself, not only in failing to cure his diseases but even keeping him drug-free.

    I understand that Mayo has posted on ESMB from time to time. Does anyone know if he evolved regarding his view of the tech?

    • Vistaril

      David Mayo is no longer a Scientologist.

      • DodoTheLaser

        From reading David’s posts on ESMB, I have to agree and it speaks volumes.

        Also, something tells me the same is true for Pat Broeker, but that’s
        an entirely different chapter, that hopefully will be part of Tony’s book.

    • Mayo is opposed to religion in general, and is NOT a practitioner today of anything to do with Scientology, that’s for sure.

      He’s muzzled so can’t talk publicly about so many things, which is sad.

      I’ve urged him to answer all the questions posthumously, so serious researchers in the years ahead at least have the answers he couldn’t say publicly.

      He’s way moved on way beyond even being a “squirrel’ to being not a supporter of any of the splinter practices that spun off of Scientology, like the Gerbode stuff.

      I believe that some of the new new religion grad students and PhD students are thinking of doing Freezone and Independent splinter group history papers, so hopefully those papers will come out in the years to come.

      What would like to see, is a blogginheads interviewing style, one on one interviewing, split screen Skype record interviewing, posted on YouTube for history. With older timer Sea Org members who can jog history out of each other’s minds.

      Like it’d be cool to have the biggies from the boom time in Boston, to interview each other on YouTube/Skype like the blogginheads model.

      It would have been interesting, for instance to have all the former Commodore’s Staff Aides and former top Flag Bu Programs Chiefs and Evaluators, and have all the former Exec Strata Execs and Eval Corps people, and former Watchdog Committee and former Inspector Generals of the various types in RTC, all have some panel discussions about “top management” history of Scientology, from 1970s to now. Or minimally pair up, do Skype record interviews on each other, and post the results on YouTube for history.

      • grundoon

        That would be awesome!

  • Most recent escapees from Scientology have no idea of the history of their own Church. Many of Marty and Mike’s “Independents” did not even know that there was another group of “Independents” before them.

    That’s why these history lessons are so important for Scientologists. Without a knowledge of their own history, Scientologists can be further manipulated and blinded from seeing the truth about Scientology.

    When I first saw that Marty and Mike had left the Church and had taken up positions on the Internet to “expose” the abuses in Scientology, I was hoping they would fill in a lot of this history for the Scientologists who were landing on their blog. I was horrified to find that not only were they not filling in this history, they were continuing to suppress its exposure – and still fighting against Mayo, Armstrong and others – while keeping their “Independents” in the dark.

    This was the basic reason that I came to distrust Marty and Mike, and why I set out to get the newly outs to question them, while also trying feebly to get them this history. But I just kinda ended up being seen as an asshole who attacked other victims of the cult.

    Oh well. Leaving the cult of Scientology is one of the messiest, fucked up things that I have ever seen happen to anybody. I wish that I had shown more grace and tolerance, and not become so combative to other people who I can now see simply had flaws of their own, and who were struggling imperfectly with their own recovery from having been betrayed on such a deep and intimate level.

    Thank you Tony and Jon, once again, for providing such a valuable service to others.


    • I am starting to think you are really nobody until youve been banned from ESMB. Youre doing a great job Alanzo!
      I actually received a message from David Mayo just a couple of weeks ago. I was recounting my story of ending up in severe ethics hot water for defending him when “the story of a squirrel” was foisted upon me during my coursework. I got so annoyed that I kicked my poor course supervisor, (pms much?). Anyway, David saw my post and dropped me a line. I was thrilled to hear from him. I hope he is finally living in some peace.

      • DeElizabethan

        So nice Victoria that David got in touch with you. Good for you for sticking up for him.
        He knew my English mate David Findlay from Sweden and hope he would remember him back in the Santa Barbara times, which was before I met and married him after the first convention.

        • Yes, thank you Tony and Jon for this sterling write about telling the history of David Mayo. Alanzo–I like what you had to say, too. He is an amazing person and when he arrived on ESMB a few years ago, some people were not sure if it was David or not. Years ago, back when I was “in” during the late 70’s he and I had written letters back and forth. So I sent him a PM asking: “Is this really David Mayo?” To my shock, and delight, he called me up! He sounded just like he always has. Oh! This is great to finally bring this vitally important piece of history to light. Again, thank you Jon and TonyO! 🙂 Tory/Magoo PS: David..if you’re reading this: My *very* best wishes to you and your wife!

      • katia L:eitao

        How cool is that!
        I would love to contact him too where/how can I find his contact?
        I know we normally cannot write links here but perhaps you can put down the search words that would lead me there?
        This man seems so gentle, and sees SCN as I see it. And I feel that it is a very, very sad story, to have seen a way out and to have seen it slip through your hands, and to have been chastised like he has, or banned.
        It would be wonderful to write to him as I have some interesting things to say to him too.
        I hope he is alright.
        I am a bit concerned that most of such links may have been changed to lead to the church’s investigators anyway… But I have little to lose, as I too have been cut off for applying Tech as it is.

        Kindly let me know.

        • Victoria Pandora

          He is on ESMB. Although I am not sure how often. Just google ESMB and it will come right up;)

    • Ms. B. Haven

      “Leaving the cult of Scientology is one of the messiest, fucked up things that I have ever seen happen to anybody. I wish that I had shown more grace and tolerance, and not become so combative to other people who I can now see simply had similar flaws of their own, and who were struggling imperfectly with their own recovery from having been so deeply betrayed.”

      I have to agree 100% with this assessment. Everyone has to work this out for themselves and it can be a real struggle and incredibly messy. I have been out for 25 years or so and still have not fully recovered. I have found the key to recovery has been to give myself a break, and show some grace and tolerance towards myself. Sometimes it is hard to forgive oneself for being so gullible. I post here for therapeutic reasons and in the hopes that perhaps someone who is still ‘in’ might benefit in some small way and start the process of waking up. I for one have found your posts and your blog to be incredibly beneficial whether you think your approach is combative or not.

      • DeElizabethan

        Luv you Ms. B. Haven

    • Artoo45

      Well put, sir. When you’ve suffered abuse, it’s all too easy to create a group of “them,” especially if you used to be a loyal member of that group. I was never in the cult, but I had plenty of experience breaking free from a toxic brew of fear and magical-thinking which led to my staying in my own cult of two for too many years. It was my fascination (no, let’s be fair, it was an obsession) with Scientology back in the LMT/Poopsie Carmichael era that eventually helped me break free from my a very abusive relationship with my partner who suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder. It’s hard to show grace and tolerance when you’re still recovering and resisting indoctrination back into the cult/relationship/company yourself. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. Time and hard work are needed to gain back one’s humanity. When you can see Miscavige and Hubbard as suffering beings, amid all the awfulness they caused, you’re probably just about there. That doesn’t mean you forgive and forget, you just stop seeing them as “other.” It’s really for one’s own humanity, not the perpetrator’s benefit. This also defangs the terribly destructive “eye for an eye” bullshit that keeps the cycle of abuse going through multiple generations of family life, organizational life or national life (I’m talking to you Papa Frankie and Kim Jong Hubbard).

      • elar aitch

        My cult is a toxic work situation, with a higher than average proportion of narcissistic/morally expedient people in charge. Understanding Scientology provides great succour and relief (that and evil psych drugs)

      • DeElizabethan

        So true Artoo45. There are many prisons.

      • Life is weird

        Ha yes! I relate to this. There are a number of members of my extended family who are in cults of their own..of two, three, four…depending on who else goes along with it. It is definitely personality disorder territory…Stockholm Syndrome, all that. I see it very clearly because I am ex-cult (not Scientology, but it was strongly influenced by them). Amazing that you used insight from understanding the Scientology saga to unhook yourself from your own personal cult with a partner! I’ve never heard of that before. Agree, these leaders are damaged personalities, not monsters….

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Great article. Marty’s making a living out of Hubbard’s dribble. That’s why he puts all the blame on Miscavige. He knows deep down inside that Hubbard was a con artist and full-of-shit, but will always keep the focus on DM. Marty got lynched by his followers for criticizing Mayo last year. Mayo is very well respected in the ‘indie’ movement, so when Marty posted that article there was a huge backlash. He wants to make himself the ‘Godfather’ of the Indies, but he came late in the game. There were Dianetics and Scientology splinter groups as early as the 1950’s.

      I’m happy that you came to your sense and left the cult. I’m sure it was very difficult. I suffered what I later realized was a mental breakdown when I decided to leave. I had to shatter through that cult mind control and it was painful. It was hard but alas I’m free.

      • DeElizabethan

        I feel for you ITNOX and so glad you are free.

        • InTheNameOfXenu

          Thank you.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      So damn true, every word. And you have nothing to apologize for as far as I’m concerned. What I have seen is a lot of victims trying to cure their scientology with scientology. The rest may not try to use scientology, but they are still self diagnosing, self medicating and self treating, instead of going for professional help. The forums are a great and helpful tool because of all the healing factoids within. But there’s that whole acting out thing that gets us all in trouble when we’re not alone with a therapist. My opinion, only.

      Today I’m learning that even the sea org staff not only don’t know history, they don’t even know scientology at all. It’s long ago morphed into the Miscavige Sales Force.

      And thank you for all your efforts.

      • DeElizabethan

        Right on…. THDNE!!

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Alanzo,we in RTC quite agree with you that leaving the Church of Scientology is extremely difficult.

      However, you omitted key data: Leaving the Church of Scientology is extremely difficult because it destroys one’s Bridge progress and Eternity.

      The fact is that a person only leaves the Church because they have O/W’s on Scientology.

      For this reason, COB RTC David Miscavige is pleased to announce the Golden Age of Sec Checking! Imagine it: The freedom to finally get off your crimes against Scientology in a theta environment of arbitraries cancelled. Moreover, a new A-E program that focuses of what you can do for Scientology instead of what focusing on what your dramatizations and allegations of what Scientology did to you. We are not interested in any of that. We are only interested in getting you into session and blowing you 50 feet out of your head!

    • DeElizabethan

      Alanzo, it is so true what you say and I’m so happy that you say whatever, whenever you do.

  • jensting

    Nice legal strategy: let the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology dig the grave of their own lawsuit. Dicovery abuse didn’t work out too well for the narCONon front in Georgia, either.

  • Sidney18511

    To anybody that might be interested I found a great web site.

  • BuryTheNuts2
    • 0tessa

      Thank you.

  • Excellent thread.

    Not another journalist in the world who goes the distance you do, Tony, into the history of Scientology.

    Mayo today, is muzzled, but he’s posted on Clambake and or ESMB, and he’s got some great postings on ARS researchers can dig up. And people can email him, his email address is on the web.

    I remember Phil Stevens was a good friend of David’s. Looking at all of Hubbard’s writings, had there been a larger number of Class 8 trained Sea Org staff, who rose up to the top “Aides” and “Staff Captain” positions, during my years when I was an onlooker (my 1st wife was CS-3, Commodore’s Staff Aide for treasury) sitting around listening to Phil (a feisty short woman, her family history of children had their ups and downs, intertwined into Scientology’s history, would be a great multi generation story to tell), there might have been a whole different upper ranks evolution of the movement.

    To me, the upper ranks ate itself, on orders from Hubbard, following the “why finding” policies of Hubbard’s that always targeted themselves, an organized scapegoating was always necessary, to placate Hubbard who meddled and meddled, irrationally prodding whoever was left standing in the top ranks of the movement, to find and scapegoat whoever was left standing.

    Dianna Hubbard once said one of the big problems of the movement, was no one wanted to rise up to the top ranks of the Sea Org and hold those hot seat executive positions at the top, where Hubbard himself was necessary to be in constant good graces with, in order to avoid Hubbard’s irrational temper.

    It was a very difficult job being a top Scientology Sea Org leader, tech or admin, while Hubbard was alive.

    And the Hubbard DNA is all through the way Miscavige operates today.

    If a rich Scientology ex member wished to stir up some deeper history, they’d fund a convention and pay for a meeting, maybe in New Zealland or Australia, of the exited older timers still alive, and get them talking about their times together over the decades they lived.

    I wish more old Class 12s could be stirred to speak up, in hindsight, and tell their histories and interactions, and views today.

    Brian Livingston, Ron Shaffner, Otto Roos, Jeff Walker, Sue Walker Gonzalez, Leon Steinberg, Murray Chopping, my memory is fading. John Ausley, Ron Gablehouse. Paulette Ausley was also one of the last to audit Hubbard. And Hubbard also dictated some of his final NOTs lectures not to just Mayo, but to Melanie Murray, who I hope someday gets her memory jogged and unmuzzles herself to discuss in detail the lectures she got from Hubbard on NOTs. (Pat Broeker too, maybe in another 5-10 years Pat will be retired and the climate might be different then, so he can someday write some history.)

    A whole “Apollo” veteran top tech people convention could be done. And funded, for sure there are people who know should have their flights and hotels paid for, to gather up the old tech and admin team of people still surviving.

    Maybe fund a parallel “Freewinds” cruise, of Apollo vets, who are willing to come together for a cruise in the Caribbean “one last time” to reminisce and stir up some stories about the crazy life with Hubbard on the Apollo!

    The reputations of the tech top tier people always is character assassinated, per Hubbard’s policies to demonize those that quit his Sea Org.

    Maybe if a rich observer of Scientology, could fund a top EU University, or make a big donation to a large university on each continent (America–US or Canada; UK-EU, Australia-New Zealand), since the major tech players in this more organized tech history are in those 3 areas of the world.

    Any rich observer out there, I think what would really be good, is make one of those university donations that helps set up a methodical indexing all of the Hubbard/Scientology history, at our culture’s institutions that this in depth history is supposed to be being done, at least from what I understand of the world.

    I wished if another Robert Minton rich person wishing to help stir up dig into the minds and memories of the whole crust of ex top tech people, there are plenty still out there, and funding digging up their opinions about it all, could be easily done.

    Huge thanks to Jon Atack, and his incredible amount of work.

    • Dennis Erlich has a huge amount of memory about Mayo, and all the tech people who interacted with Mayo, during Dennis’ time as top Cramming Officer for the top Class 12 auditors.

      Dennis Erlich’s own story is emblematic of even the wacky mind of Hubbard’s, and had Dennis not ejected when he did, and had Dennis been a different person, it would have been Dennis, not Jesse Prince, who then became the first “Inspector General Cramming Officer” per Hubbard’s orders.

      Dennis was a candidate for that position.

      Whatever happened to Paul Crabtree? He was the IG Cramming Officer, I think, who took over after Jesse.

      • Ze Moo

        I occasionally tell people to ‘Cram it’ and I have crammed for tests in the distant past. I am curious about the function of ‘cramming officer’?

    • Vistaril

      Melanie Murray – now there’s a blast from the past! Didn’t she write the “What Is A Course” HCOB which was issued over L Ron Hubbard’s name? That’s the sort of information Exes need to put together the story of Scientology. But no. Those ex-Int Exes are running around hiding the truth, perpetuating the lies and seeking to keep alive a fraud. Why?

      • Well Vistaril, when Joe Howard (Dan Koon) posts here, ask him those types of quesitons.

        When you see Joe Howard posting here, anyone, ask Joe (Dan) questions about compilations history.

        Dan’s one of the movement’s most prolific “compilers” and so was Russ Williams.

        Both men are free to be asked expert questions about ALL Hubbard compilations.

        I was trained in the compilations, but never did any, I was a beginner helper to Dan for a tiny few months time, but I took the Hubbard compilations work seriously, and the Hubbard compilations as a sub subject is a large discussion. Hubbard farmed his own writings off to other people, always was the case. (HE didn’t farm off his Ron’s Journals, the printed ones, he mostly wrote those. There’s a whole detailed history of what parts of the issues he farmed off, and what parts are taken verbatim from his despatch traffic, and what is research the compiler takes from other earlier writings of Hubbard’s or from his lectures, which the compilers do because Hubbard says specifically for them to do this, in Hubbard’s writings that govern what a compiler should do).

        I witnessed how issues were compiled, and they followed Hubbard’s script for even how to compile a issue from his various despatch traffic orders and comments on briefing tapes he did to limited top tech staff audiences, like Melanie Murray.

        Which is why I urge those that did the deeds, write their memoirs, so the details are told.

        Dan’s posting here now and then, and Russ Williams could be spurred to write more.

        Those two, Dan and Russ, could be prodded to tell a whole huge chunk of insider history of how compilations in the 1980s were done!

        I’ve urged scholars to take both Dan and Russ on, as a project.

        Exactly how all the “assisted by” and “for” and the Pat Broeker red lined bulletins were all variously considered valid to issue, there’s a Hubbard basis to a lot of the compilations variations, and it’s ALL there in Hubbard’s own orders he gave those people at one point or another, it was part of Hubbard’s own long term using other people for his grand movement and getting things done.

        If it all only made some spiritually improved people, I think it was the case that people just matured, as people will naturally mature and learn, as they grow older in whatever social setting they are within! (Hubbard was so unobservant, he mistook people’s normal getting smarter in life as they aged, as something he was causing them by having them read his policies and doing his pseudo therapy/exorcism.)

    • Artoo45

      Maybe we all just meet at James Randi’s The Amaz!ng Meeting (TAM) every July in Las Vegas. The James Randi Education Foundation fights scams, cults and charlatans year ’round. We could have a hell of a panel discussion some year . . .

  • 0tessa

    David Mayo: I wish him peace and fulfillment also. He was on the right side.

    • BosonStark

      Glory be to the David Mayo
      and the Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato

      • FistOfXenu

        I’ll have it on wry.

  • BosonStark

    All the tech-wielding powerz of the amazing David Mayo could not defeat the cult’s squirrel-crushing power at the time, although it sounds like his lawyers made out okay.

    All the tech-wielding powerz of Marty Rathbun, could not help him recognize that for 30 years, he was working as a “henchman” for a Black-Dianetics-wielding SP like the evil David Miscavige.

    So, what is it the tech is good for again? Oh yeah, it got Travolta the Welcome Back Kotter part, and it helps Kirstie with her weight control and lemur husbandry — or at least it gave her the money to hire someone to husband her lemurs.

    • Observer

      And it helps Jenna Elfman identify baby-rapers.

      • RMycroft

        I think the t-shirt was a clue.

        When Elfmans Explode June 13, 2006, Entertainment News, TMZ

        • Observer

          True, but without her OT powerz she’d never have been able to make the leap from “I see a joking and degrading t-shirt” to “this man is a baby-raper!” I know that I, lacking those powerz, would never have been able to make that identification.

    • Missionary Kid

      Translation: It’s all shit.

  • John P.

    The tale of David Mayo is perhaps the ultimate expression of what is wrong with the Scientology organization. For the purposes of this discussion, let’s set aside for the moment whether the “tech” actually works in a statistically significant percentage of cases where people apply it for self-help; let’s pretend it does.

    Here’s a guy who works his way up through the ranks, apparently by virtue of significant competence at creating the actual product of the organization. He then gets targeted and attacked by a bunch of back-office bureaucrats who know nothing about delivering the organization’s product and he ends up being cast out on trumped-up allegations. The company then spends millions of dollars attacking him legally externally and putting out tons of propaganda internally saying that the guy who was hailed as a genius only months before is now the root of all evil befalling the company, showing that spending money on creating a scapegoat is a higher priority than training new people to deliver product just as well as David Mayo did.

    In the meantime, the company fails to notice how criticizing a departed senior executive alienates customers and employees — apparently, everybody but top management comes to understand that it makes management look like fools if they allowed such a massive “SP” to lurk undetected in the highest echelons of the organization for so long. Employees and customers leave at an alarming rate and business plummets.

    If this were a publicly traded company engaging in this sort of soap opera, a board of directors that fails to act and fire everybody in sight would find itself sued into oblivion by the shareholders. It’s difficult to imagine such craziness occurring in corporate America. But for nearly its entire existence, the cult has managed to cast off the competent true believers and replace them either with sheep (as much of the current staff base seems to be these days) or with truly malevolent sociopaths, starting from the top on down. Frankly, it’s amazing that the cult has lurched along for as long as it has without imploding.

    • Missionary Kid

      It has been able to because of the curtain for information, history, and logic was existent.
      Now, you have the internet, where ideas, stories, and arguments can take place for all to see.
      It used to be a one on one process, or that whoever had the printing press ruled.
      Now, anyone can comment or raise an objection or tell their story and one to millions are able to see it.
      $cientology thrived when it was able to hide its true nature.. It can’t any more.

      • DeElizabethan

        Truth spoken!

    • 0tessa

      Yes, it is truly amazing. The real secret of Scientology is not known yet.

      • Roger Larsson

        Who needs a church selling Hubbard’s stuff when all the stuff he wrote down is to be found on Internet? To close down the knowledge of his writing is done by closing down the power running computers that will close Internet. To be in touch with Mother Earth having an eternal battery buried somewhere on this planet keeps computers working. Or the sun. The church of scientology is not needed.

        • Captain Howdy

          Hey Roger! Glad to see ya.

          Now where’s Bob?

          • Observer

            I’ve been wondering that myself. I sure hope OSA hasn’t tracked him down.

          • Roger Larsson

            Religious criminals goes to heaven and victims of crime goes to hell…..You tell me.

          • Roger Larsson

            What’s the difference between Hells Angles and Angles in Hell?

            Hells Angles scare people to give away their money and angles in Hell (scientologists) scare peopkle away from getting their money back.

            • Poison Ivy

              “Angles”? Acute? Obtuse? Right? Adjacent?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Somebody had to do it!

            • richelieu jr

              Obtuse definitely (though I met acute one once)

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am always scared he is busted!

            • Captain Howdy

              Me too.

      • California

        Elaboration, please?

        • 0tessa

          The secet is in the tech, not in the organization or guys like Miscavige. He is just one of those bastards taking advantage.
          People like David Mayo, they know the tech in and out. What is really workable tech is only a very small amount. Things like body thetans etc. are just fantasies.
          I hope David Mayo will write his book. He was the real ‘religious’ soul.

      • FistOfXenu

        Sure it is Otessa. the real secret of $cientarCONon is, it was built on a firm foundation of LRH’s narcissism with layers of greed, frauds, drug abuse, hallucinations and then more drug abuse, hallucinations, greed, bullying, fraud and paranoia. All held together with horseshit.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Every time I hear about one of these I say to the universe, “Well, he sure had them fooled”.

    • This scenario has played out in a number of dysfunctional organizations (I’ve seen it operate first-hand), The incompetent leadership recognizes the threat posed to them by the competent upstart and uses all of its resources to neutralize the threat. Whether this serves the overall good of the organization is never even considered to be an issue.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Sort of the like the American Tea Party Repugs.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Sounds just like my day job!

    • 1subgenius

      OK, Mr. Smarty-pants Capitalist (to paraphrase Firesign Theater), your next class assignment, in light of the above, is to explain the reasons for this:

      “…that the cult has lurched along for as long as it has without imploding.”

      • Captain Howdy

        One possible explanation is that just like North Korea, the cult has enablers. N Korea has China and the Soviet Union/Russia and CofS has the U.S government.

        • Observer

          Hopefully the govt will back off like China has recently started distancing itself from North Korea.

          • Artoo45

            Poor Hubbard Jong Eun . . .

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Captain, this is more spot on than you may realize. The Cash Cows of Scientology are the Ideal Enablers of all time. And even their poorer cousins. The majority of scientologists I’d peg in the enabler category. Just like in any other group, you have your percentages of narcissists, sociopaths, bullies, but the majority that support them enable the abusers. The meltdown we are seeing in the last few years from every insider report I read sounds like the ratio has turned upside down. The ones who are getting their rocks off hurting others or are making a tidy profit are Not the ones leaving. Why would they? They have every incentive to stay, including protection from the law.

      • RMycroft
        • TheHoleDoesNotExist


      • John P.

        One word: cash. The sizable reserves and the ability to pay people peanuts, which enables the cult to continue to build reserves in the face of declining membership and revenues, allows them to get away with all sorts of stuff. They can always write a check to fix problems like lawsuits until the reserves run out.

        However, they have reached the point of diminishing returns with the various fundraising scams — check out the discussion the last couple days on Mike Rinder’s blog about how the Buffalo “Ideal Org” is back to selling limited edition leather bound copies of Dianutty to raise money since apparently none of the other scams are working any more. If limited edition books are the best scam they can run in Buffalo, the capital city of “Canada,” the cult’s days are indeed numbered. Apparently, the lumberjacks and fur trappers in the villages and hamlets like Toronto and Montreal are completely tapped out.

        • 1subgenius

          (Only because I’m a tough grader.)

        • Poison Ivy

          There’s also the religion aspect. Having unlimited cash as well as pretty much carte blanche protection as a “religion” allows them the financial and political power of any evil corporation. Then there’s information control. Because membership in the group requires everyone in the cult to be unquestioning, those who have a psychological or emotional need to stay within the group (that includes those who may want to leave but don’t want to lose family) won’t question anything that goes on inside, so they can’t be used to corroborate complaints from the outside. Of course, because of the internet, that’s all changed. As John P says, the loss of so many of their cash cows (Narconon, endless sales of books, emeters & services, etc.) coupled with the influx of information both out of and into the cult, has been the beginning of the end. However, I still want to know, WHY THE HELL IS IT TAKING SO LONG???!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Tom Cruise. John Travolta. The Duggan Family. The Jensen Family. et al

          • InTheNameOfXenu

            The reason it’s taking long is that there are still enough suckers going to Flag, Advanced orgs, and Freewinds to keep the cult afloat. Those places still pull in millions of dollars a week. The class IV orgs and missions manage to limp along with minimal staff, because they will accept little or no pay. Children of Scientologists are actively recruited into the sea org, which keep that particular human-trafficking department staffed. There’s no telling how long it will take. My guess that it’ll be in several decades. When DM dies, it most likely will accelerate this process since they sheep won’t be able to think for themselves. However, there may be another sociopath sea org member waiting in the wings to take over. If there is one thing that Scientology produces in quantity it’s sociopaths.

      • FistOfXenu

        Anybody that refs Firesign Theater so creatively gets an up-arrow from me.

        • 1subgenius

          Oh, wait.

        • Artoo45

          Why, she’s no fun. She falls right over . . .

          • RMycroft

            Don’t crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers.

            • ThetaBara

              Sorry to tell you, but this time we are just going to have to make an exception to the no dwarf crushing rule.
              It’s for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics! I’m sure you understand -and the dwarfenfuhrer is just gonna have to suck it (for a change). LOL!

        • Ze Moo

          I was always a Nick Danger 3rd eye kinda guy.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      These observations would certainly hold true in the corporate world, but not in the ‘self-help, therapeutic, new-age, spiritual’ world. If one is desperate to get ahead materially, one is free to do just about anything to make that happen. Even criminal activity pays off sometimes. When one is desperate for some sort of salvation, and one comes under the sway of someone who claims to have all of the answers, that is a whole different story. As Mr. Wright put it so well in the sub-title of his recent book, one enters the Prison of Belief. It is a self-imposed prison, but a prison none the less. In most cases, it is simply a matter of altering one’s beliefs and they are free to leave at any time to pursue other paths. Not so with scientology. They happen to have a litany of methods to keep one in the fold. Promises of super-human abilities, OSA, fair game, disconnection, knowledge reports, and threats of all sorts. Criminal activity pays off almost all the time for scientology. The only way this group will go away is when it rots from within. The only way it will rot from within is when enough members wake up by seeing accurate information on the outside. Thanks Mr. Atack, for all your good work.

      • DeElizabethan

        I second that!

      • InTheNameOfXenu

        The group is rotting from within. I call it death by slow torture. The more they apply Hubbard’s insane ‘tech’ and ‘ethics’ on it’s members, the more people leave for good. Hopefully they leave the cult altogether, but even if they go Indie at least they are out of the clutches of that evil organization.

    • yes, in my situation i innocently showed up to course one day and the supervisor gave me my study target. i was meant to study one of mayos tech bulletins from my coursepack, and also study “the story of a squirrel” in the same session. stupid cult doesnt even TRY to make sense.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        This is truly (tragically) funny.

        • Poison Ivy

          They do have one consistency – they are completely consistent in their inconsistency.

    • Truthiwant

      I would like to tell a story about suppressive Sea Org members.

      When I was doing auditing in Milan, Italy, word was coming through that the Senior C/S there
      had been declared an SP. The first thing that crossed my mind was ‘how could a
      high ranking and supposedly respected member of the Sea Org, who was no less
      than the Senior C/S , ever be a suppressive person?’ This really worried me and
      I remember asking some Sea Org members this question. I never really got a
      convincing answer on that one. But, the second thing that happened, and the most
      insidious, was the way that the Sea Org members in Milan managed to convince
      everybody that this was a good thing. Statistics had obviously been down and they
      needed a scapegoat to justify why a lot of auditing was going wrong. This was
      the time that a few months later, all Clears were called up saying that their Clear
      status had been annulled. Of course! It was the fault of the C/S! Everything is
      just Hunky-dory now!

      Scientology has done this time and again. The big examples are of course Golden age of Tech
      and Golden Age of Tech 2.

      However, every time they do this, more and more people leave the organization. That, I
      am sure you will all agree, is good news!

      • DeElizabethan


    • There was an award given to Mayo, for Mayo’s help putting together the “Happiness Rundown”, it was issued under Hubbard’s name, as was the case with the highest level of acknowledgement awards of the 1970s.

      The issue had the Hubbard byline.

      The award issues, issued with Hubbard’s name, all had to be rescinded, including the one for Mayo.

      There is more than ample proof, just by the continuous rescinding of these awards issues, proving your point.

      When I was in the ‘admin’ training department, we had other staff come scour our files, and extract and shred all issues that praised the members who had fallen from grace.

      When I worked in the “Senior HCO International” ethics and personnel files “all hands” filing projects, I noted we did the same for our massive staff files.

      We erased people, and the files and issues were then taken “up the lines” to Int, or destroyed.

      Today, where the “church” keeps all it’s files and ethics folders and the case (pc) folders of the former baddies and ex members, is an important question.

      The Hubbard legacy of Scientology carries with it this albatross of a paper trail, all per crazy Hubbard’s policies regarding keeping those files and case folders. (The Scientology passport was supposed to be the index filing system, a person could claim in a future life, if the person’s memory was sufficiently good to recall his past life, then locate his or her last lifetime’s “Passport” and look up all his or her last lifetime Scientology accomplishments and progress, so as to continue up the Hubbard Bridge in One’s next life).

      The most important message to ALL Scientologists, I feel, is Hubbard’s admission to Steven Sarge Pfauth, that is truly new news that all Scientologists should hear. I wish Danny Sherman would tell the flock.

      • Poison Ivy

        What was that message?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Hubbard said he was a failure. It is part of Wrights book.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Why should COB RTC David Miscavige allow SP’s who infiltrated the Church to remain in our history books? No, we in the Church of Scientology go Mommie Dearest on those pictures, awards, and texts and BAM! They are gone faster than John Travolta can catch a male masseuse!

        • Observer

          I am in awe of you in RTC’s shooping skills. I mean it.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Thank you.

        • InTheNameOfXenu


      • sizzle8

        Have you spoken with Steve yet?

    • Poison Ivy

      “…apparently, everybody but top management comes to understand that it makes management look like fools if they allowed such a massive “SP” to lurk undetected in the highest echelons of the organization for so long.” Which is what’s still going on!! Great analysis, John P.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      ‘Frankly, it’s amazing that the cult has lurched along for as long as it has without imploding.’

      John, as always, it’s a pleasure reading your articles. Fear and paranoia are the only things that keeps Scientology running. If you create an enemy(the psychs, the media, government), then you say that they are out to stop Scientology this creates an ideology. Add a cult leader like Hubbard, and now Miscavige that pushes the fear button to control their flock. Let’s not forget RPF, ethics, sec checks. These are crafty tools to keep those remaining in check.

      Scientology is imploding, but in slow motion. They are crumbling little by little. Once the big money donors leave or die off, they will deplete their reserves quickly. With no new recruits, a bad economy, increasing bad press, increasing number of lawsuits; the cult is being slowly chipped away.

      The cult is experiencing death by slow torture. For the lives they’ve destroyed and continue destroying, I can’t think of any better way for this evil totalitarian organization to die.

      • DeElizabethan

        Hear, here! Slow but sure death.

    • grundoon

      ” It’s difficult to imagine such craziness occurring in corporate America.”

      You’re not an HP watcher, I take it?

      • John P.

        We in Global Capitalism HQ have a large position in HP stock, though I won’t say whether we’re long or short at the moment. While they have certainly had some bizarre stuff happen in the last few years, they have generally been guilty of timidity for most of the last few decades rather than craziness. We were a little irritated when HP bought Autonomy since we were short Autonomy — we never could bring ourselves to trust Mike Lynch one iota, but we ended up offsetting that with our overall profits shorting HP under Leo Apotheker, who we thought was a weak link when he was at SAP; we were stunned when the board brought him on at HP. All that said, HP’s crazy years are nothing like what happens every single day inside a cult that is only 1% the size of the Silicon Valley giant.

    • DeElizabethan

      Exactly Jonh P.

    • Johan

      It’s exactly because of this that I cannot tear my eyes away from this train wreck. I feel I don’t understand the human race until I can understand how such an organization as scientology can carry on not just scraping by (not exactly flourishing either), but surviving against all possible odds. I despair sometimes….

  • California

    What is notable here on the west coast is that GO Jeff Quiros survived these purges and is now very publicly identifies himself as OSA Jeff Quiros. He even signed his name this week to a letter to the editor criticizing Lawrence Wright, the book and the reviewer who gave a the book a positive review, as “Public Affairs,” which I know now (from a posting here yesterday) means:
    “Public Affairs/Public Relations is a post in department 20, Dept. of Special Affairs (OSA).I’m sure Quiros is the only person in that Department and holds all those posts ‘from above’.”

    I think Quiros survived by creating and advocating for the Narconon Drug Education programs insertion into public and charter schools in the U.S., which we know failed, with much publicity, international and national, in 2005. The CDE evaluation recommending against the use of Narconon Drug Education is used constantly to assist school districts: the most recently in Cornwall, England.

    He also was and is a strong advocate of the cash cows Narconon Drug Rehabs and they are failing and almost all will be shut down under the new federal and state regulations governing substance abuse facilities, plus the law-suits and criminal and civil investigations by the state agencies concerned with the different Narconons (Georgia, Oklahoma, Florida, California, Nevada). Sooner or later, DM will have to realize that this guy is an SP or whatever else SCN terminology is used to describe someone who is hurting DM’s intentions, hurting SCN and apparently only out for himself.

    Every aggressive, legal, or otherwise, act he does against people he regards as SP’s becomes a teachable

    David Mayo sounds like a thoughtful guy. I am so sorry that he got caught up in the evil of the worst side of SCN. It reads that he found out early, auditing Hubbard, but then thought he could repair SCN. His only mistake.

    • i-Betty

      Fascinating overview of a member of the old guard.

      • California

        His blunders are such, especially lately, that Jeff Quiros/his assistant Karen deLise are our unintended allies.

    • sizzle8

      Quiros wasn’t a big cheese when the GO stuff went down. Although we were told that ex-GO could no longer be on staff, many just had a sec check and were re-posted into OSA.

      Heber used to be in the GO.

      • California

        Yes, the GO to OSA route seems to have been pretty smooth. But the same bad behavior continues….

        And Heber then advanced, from what I have learned and read. And now he is in the Hole…… I wish he had gotten his son and himself out when his wife left…….

  • N. Graham

    This is a happy day! We have found David Mayo’s notes on the OT 9 manuscript found in the old coat pocket of Pat Broeker that was purchased from the Salvation Army.

    WARNING: You must be qualified to read this. If not, you will be stricken by a neurological disease, or as I like to call it, “radiation brain,” since I have discovered that all diseases of the brain are caused by radiation of some sort.

    To be qualified to read the following and not stricken by killer radiation, you must first:

    ·-Complete OTs I through VIII with at least a 3.0 average
    -Complete Auditing Courses I through XIV including bonus course XV located on the secret Side III of the Bridge to Knowledge of Nothing.
    -Deciphered the aural clues in the musical opus Thank You for Listening.
    -Done a double back-flip in between dimensions while exterior.
    -Ruthlessly eradicated, for once and for all, without sorrow, those body thetans that you saved. from OT VI auditing and named after the cousins on your mother’s side.

    ·-Donated at least a million dollars to the Super Power Building, the L. Ron Hubbard Auditorium and lanetarium Sanitarium, and the Mouse Table Project.
    -Buy something significant for Tom Cruise, like an atomic powered shaver or a portable, sterling silver milkshake maker, or if totally tapped out, spent at least 48 hours working on Tom’s van or plane hanger.

    -Have your ethics in.

    -Don’t be glib.

    OT IX

    As you recall from OT VIII, you, (insert your name here) are the person that has mocked up the whole
    Universe. To continue this entire existence, you must call out I ACK That. Go and ahead and do it. Louder!

    By now a reg officer has heard you yelling like a Tone 2 and has entered the room and informed you that you will be given an envelope with the Orders of Magnitude contained within the envelope. But first, get out your checkbook! Write out a check to Cash for the amount the reg officer has determined to be appropriate.

    Orders of Magnitude

    Now that you have written out your check, you may contemplate how much higher your IQ will be than everyone else’s, and how you will soon have the power to split, by mitosis, into two beings. AND how you will have the power to control these additional beings, these clones, to do whatever you say! Think about your clone armies and how you will be able to lord it over just about everyone in the Solar System, especially that suppressive bitch that screwed you over in the eighth grade.

    As we must always Keep Scientology Working, make sure each 7th clone is put to work for Ron’s army to spread Scientology. There is a 3-word mantra that must be instilled into each clone before presenting it for service in the church. And that is:

    Kneel Before Ron.

    You will soon have the power to clone yourself. This will start to formulate because you have come to the realization that you don’t CLIMB a bridge, you CROSS a bridge. You can climb a TREE though. From here on in, you will always talk about climbing the TREE instead of the bridge. Even though those in the dark will laugh behind your back or even to your face, those few in the know will know that you have reached OT Level XI.

    · – Go over and touch the nearest wall.

    · -Go over and touch the farthest wall.

    ·- Did you touch it? Touch it again.

    · – Go touch the nearest wall again.

    · – I don’t think you touched it. Let me SEE you touching it this time.

    · – Go exterior and touch the other side of the farthest wall.

    · -That’s the nearest wall. Flunk! Do the exercise over again starting with the part where you start writing a check to the reg officers.

    · -C’mon, this is your eternity! Get out the checkbook.

    · -Thank you. Go back and touch the nearest wall.

    · -Thank you. Now touch the farthest wall.

    · -Thank you. Now touch your nose.

    · -Thank you. Touch your nose to the ashtray.

    · -Flunk! You’ve got to actually touch your nose to the ashtray.

    · -Thank you. Now clone the ashtray.

    · -Now do a clay table on how you cloned the ashtray and write up your wins.

    · – It doesn’t matter that you didn’t actually see the mock-up of the ashtray you cloned. Just write up your wins.

    · – Ok. Now clone the ashtray again. What do you mean you can’t do it?

    ·- It says right here in your wins that you cloned the ashtray. You are out-ethics and bordering on suppression.

    · -Just write out another check and all will be forgiven.

    · -C’mon, just write another one. You’ve come so far already. Just a bit more.

    · – You’re almost to the end.

    · -You do know you’re on a ship in International Waters and we have your passport?

    · -Ok. Make it payable to “David Miscavige Cognac Account.”

    · -Thank you. Congratulations! You are OT 9!

    If you did any of the steps wrong, you run the risk of becoming nuclear and wiping out the Time Track of everything right before man discovered fire, up to when he invented the wheel, leaving Dianetics the top boon to mankind ever.

    This is a very important level. I was able to do a 12th degree Mason implant. When I first tried to enter the implant, because I didn’t have the right Thingamabbobie ready, the arc break goofed the floof and wiped out the color purple in the Marcabian Confederacy. Also, goofing the floof will cause your clones to become vulnerable to the element chromium and its effects will be to make them hiccup whenever they are exposed to it. (Orange chromium will cause strange and unpredictable effects and teal chromium is deadly to wogs and will give them
    engrams and cause a wax build-up in their ears.)


    If you get a friend to sign up for the course before the time we publish NEW OT 9, you will have the extra added power of cause over any former lives you had during the Victorian era or any that intermingled with Cecil Rhodes in the omniverse where he was heterosexual.


    Write a big enough check and you can have the added cause over former lives in ANY AGE and also ANY CLONES THEY MOCKED UP.


    Write an even BIGGER check and you will also get a light saber with the Sea Org logo emblazoned on it!

    Remember to Keep Scientology Working!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Oh shit….I flunked!
      Please don’t make me do OT III again!

      • N. Graham

        It depends, how much do you have left on your credit card?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Enough for two bottles of OP nail polish, my Costco membership, 6 gallons of gas and a wild night out at Applebee’s!

          • N. Graham

            Get your credit limit raised and call us in the morning.

    • Artoo45

      Wow! Just . . . WOW! My havingness has never had so much having! I can finally buy that vacation home on the Islets of Langerhanz! I’ll take that light saber, who do I make the check out to again?

      • John P.

        The Isles of Langerhans… I’ve heard that they are a real vacation paradise. No cruise ships stop there, and the beaches are relatively free of riff-raff. It’s too bad they don’t have an airstrip big enough for the Global Capitalism HQ private jet or I’d spend a lot more time hanging out there instead of the usual boring Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands and assorted other tropical tax shelter “working vacation” spots I frequent. Given that we own majority stakes in all dialysis equipment vendors, I didn’t even need to look them up on the map.

        • N. Graham

          Stop off and see the Nodes of Ranvier if you have the time.

    • Poison Ivy


    • Ze Moo
      • ThetaBara

        The article seems to conflate leaving the sea org with leaving scientology entirely. Would they kick him out completely for leaving the SO?

  • i-Betty

    ( I love how TonyO is almost gleeful in his quest to unpick scientology. The excitement comes out in his writing style which often makes me grin as I’m reading 😀 )

    Anyway, there is no way the FBI doesn’t have scientology under a microscope to this day. Any entity that can be described as committing “the largest infiltration of the US government in its history” is never going to be left to its own devices again. That’s just my opinion, but I refuse to believe it can be otherwise.

    Thanks for the excellent interview, Jon 🙂

    • Observer

      i-Betty, you are a ray of sunshine. I’m so glad you’re here.

      • i-Betty

        Oh, thank you! That’s such a nice thing to say :))

    • I concluded after this failed investigation, that somehow even as good of a defector as John Brousseau is not enough.

      They (FBI) need someone to exit who has just been beaten up, and to also have the person’s who witnessed the beatings, to exit simultaneously, and have the victims bring with them a trail of unrefutable evidence.

      And that posting the phone numbers, so fresh victims can phone and whistleblow quickly, with ample evidence that will hold up in court, is what is needed.

      One thing is informing those inside, of the typical human rights violations that would be prosecutable, so that those that get tromped on next, know who to call (FBI), and what kind of slam dunk evidence they need to bring with them, when they defect!

      A “How to Blow Scientology and Nail Scientology for Scientology’s Real Human Rights Abuses, For Dummies” and put it on newsstands around Scientology buildings, or something. So Scientology staff and even the occassional RPF member who gets momentarily out into the public, can snatch a copy of the how-to instructions for nailing Scientology for its live abuses!

      • ThetaBara

        I’ve been thinking about organizing “how to blow” info. Great idea to add in how to nail them for the human rights abuses. I’d guess that’s why most people blow.

  • Another question that pissed off Scientologists: How are so many suppressives able to reach the upper ranks?
    Also, what are the estimates of stats of active Scientologists (defined as taking courses & services) over the years? My impression is that Scientology peaked around 1980, dropped steeply during the schism period described above and has been floundering ever since. When I was a kid hanging around the orgs in LA they were bustling with people. Whenever I’ve passed by an Org in recent years they seem deserted – usually no one to be seen but a bored receptionist inside the door.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    David Mayo was the bright light of scientology and the kind of down to earth, compassionate father/god stand in that inspired any mind he touched and warmed any heart he comforted. You know the kind that brings out the very best of you, that makes you proud of your own accomplishments, that motivates you to grab the shift stick and rev it up into high gear?

    I’ve been slowly reading all the comments, questions, answers, ponderings so far today and was thinking, “Mayo still inspires”. Every single one of your comments today is some of your best and brightest, though provoking, astonishing, brilliant, inciteful. This blog and commentary today is a gem, a real keeper.

    Oh, also he saved my friggin’ life. My last months in are still missing chunks of time as I was a walking trauma and riddled with pain, weak in limb and fragmented in mind. Eventually I was “allowed” to go to Dr Denk’s offices, the Shaw Center, where sea org staff were “seen” for free or little, then spit back out with some calcium magnesium tablets as a cure all. To my knowledge, no doctor ever reported the obvious criminal neglect and abuse they saw on that corner on Fountain and Berendo in the evil shadow of Big Blue.

    It was not doctors who saved, it was David Mayo. First, as a pilot (guinea pig testing) pc on his Way to Happiness rundown which helped me wake up to the fact that happiness was Impossible in the environment I was in. Second, on my third try in my career as guinea pig (the first was Purif), on the running program (Super Power! hahahahahaha) we actually had to get rest, nutrition, food, we could run and stop whenever we wanted, so we were getting fresh air And exercise. I was so traumatized that I no longer felt the pain, so my back was forever messed up. I also had a chronic condition that the doctors didn’t diagnose, and today, it’s a struggle every day to keep it in mild range, as opposed to life threatening range.

    The real topper was David Mayo’s declare, just like Jon stated. It wasn’t just public running for the hills. Sea org staff in the PAC area (Los Angeles headquarters where numerous administrative, technical and mission organizations hovered) were scrambling up the walls 1 or 2 at a time, every week. The inhumane conditions were much like Jason Barclay described in his recent report of his experiences as staff in PAC. I know ASHO, the Estates Org, L.A. Org, actually all but AO (where OT levels are delivered), were literally weeks away from financial doom and having to close their doors. I had been on the Exec Councils and FP councils. Staff were delirious and malnourished while 80 to 90% of whatever income was still dripping in all went upline, to Hubbard, so he could play solitaire in his Bluebird motor home, sitting on his pile of blood money.l

    This is why when I hear Any of the “veterans” who’ve been around forever, whether staff like Marty Rathbun or the cash cow public, like the Duggans or celebs like John Travolta who still parrot the “David Mayo was a Squirrel” mantra, I know their true barometer, their true motivations, their true north. If David Mayo is reading here today, thank you. Scientology was a Minus learning experience in my life. But my experiences with so many extraordinary and fascinating individuals, such as David Mayo, made me a better person.


    • BuryTheNuts2

      THDNE, this was a wonderful freaking post!

      • Captain Howdy

        Her Holiness has been on fire lately.

        C ya all Monday.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          got your CSW for us to sign off on? oh, and also, your replacement?

          • ThetaBara

            Replacement? For Howdy? There can be only one.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Damn it. He needs to clone himself …or at least leave a Howdy blow up doll!

      • I’m faving you since I can’t fave THDNE’s post twice!

    • danlocke

      Reflects much of my own experiences and sentiments. I appreciate the comment.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I wish you’d left with us, Dan. But you were a fun guy and I know you were one of the sincerely want to help ones. Glad you survived. As you know, many didn’t.

    • Bob

      The black PR campaign against Mayo was massive. All kinds of rumors were rampant. I was told by a SO reg that Mayo was charging fees that went directly to him for CSing certain cases. Also that Mayo had removed certain rundowns that crashed NOTS cases and that he had removed all the PTS auditing from NOTS.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        True South

      • Sidney18511

        Bob..did you believe all the PR regarding Mayo at the time?

        • Bob

          I was a major kool aid drinker. So, yes. Never quite made sense though. The Atack article was great.

    • i-Betty

      THDNE, this is so touching. I do hope David Mayo sees what you have written.


      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Me too. tks

    • DeElizabethan

      Thank you so much for telling your colorful past and your appreciation of David Mayo. His tapes helped save my life when needed.
      So much different than today. God if we only had the internet then… who knows. We do have it now and the Fail is happening and truth prevails.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I know! These young whippersnappers can’t conceive of anything wireless, much less without cable tv or netz. But hey, we all made fun of gramma and gramps long ago. It’s just our turn for the receiving line. Didn’t know you did the metaphysics thing! What was that like? I’ve come full circle on all the new age, alternative whatever. I like to be kind to myself and think I wasn’t so much as Wrong, as Took a Wrong Turn. lol. If all of us had gone to college and majored in science of Any kind, we would probably have cured a whole bunch of stuff by now. Oh well, let the kids at it. At least we gave them a good example of what Not to do.

    • aquaclara

      This deserves a bigger story. It is gripping. Thank you…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thank you. It wasn’t easy write down some parts, so appreciate your comment. And all others.

  • richelieu jr

    Sorry for my English, but what does ‘he ticketed the Van Gogh exhibit…” mean, exactly?

    Not that he sold tickets, surely!

    • Artoo45

      Maybe he picketed the Van Gogh exhibit. Good ol’ Vincent . . . what a PTS!

    • i-Betty

      Doesn’t it mean something like sponsorship? I’m not at all certain, but it would make sense in the context.

  • A few inaccuracies in Atack’s account: LRH did not approve the film script that starred David Mayo, LRH wrote it himself; Harvey Haber did not produce any Tech Films; John Nelson was not ED Int, he was CO CMO Int. Other than those, his account reads to me as fairly credible. One thing Atack did not know is that just prior to David Mayo getting sacked, LRH had ordered that Miscavige receive a sec check, not sure from who, but probably Mayo. Isn’t that an interesting coincidence. In advices to David in April 1982, just a few months before he was busted, LRH had suggested that Mayo set up his office entirely separate from the management structure of the church so he could carry on research without the distractions of the insanity of Management (my words, not LRH’s).

    Anyway, I hope that one day David Mayo is free to tell his story. It will make a riveting book.

    • I urge people to ask Joe Howard quesitons!

      In Scientology history, Joe was one of the most prolific “compilers” and knows the fine details of cult Int Base history and prior at La Quinta.

      The opportunity to ask Joe questions, fire away, I urge people!

    • Vistaril

      Hi Joe

      Seeing as how you’re interested in correcting things and ensuring an accurate history is detailed, any chance you might get around to letting Ex-Scientologists in on some of the compilation issues? We can start with a simple one. Did Melanie Murray write the “What is a course” HCOB? It would be a travesty if people such as yourself who know all these details were to leave Ex-Scientologists to wander around with lies in their heads. Don’t you reckon?

      I do believe it was Jesse Prince who was ordered to do the Sec Check on David Miscavige. Apparently the little one was crying and very nearly wet his pants.

      . . . So I was ordered to sec check DM to determine his real motives for passing along legal advice that he back off from his own church. When I walked into Dave”s office he was crying like a child who had taken a crap in his pants and now stank to high heaven. Dave swore up and down to me that he was only following LRH”s own orders to get an “All Clear” — meaning to get LRH dismissed from all the outstanding litigation — so that LRH could travel freely again, without fear of subpoenas or worse.

      LRH had been in hiding, not only from the public but also from 95 percent of all his staff, for the last fifteen to twenty years anyway. Dave was extremely indignant at being asked such incriminating questions, but because of the questions I was asking him, he was fairly certain that LRH would soon assign him to the RPF (the Rehabilitation Project Force, Scientology”s political prison).

      In the security check Dave made sure he told me about the trips to the casinoes, the heavy drinking and the women he and Pat had enjoyed together. Dave freely confessed his sins and Pat Broeker”s sins as well. He said if he was going to go down, he was going to make sure Pat Broeker went down as well. He was very critical of Pat, saying he had a long history of alcohol abuse and recklessly spending LRH’s money. Of course, the person who received the report of Dave”s sec check was Pat Broeker. So it didn”t surprise me a bit when Dave and Pat suddenly became best buddies again. I seriously doubt that anything but reports full of glowing praise for Dave ever went to LRH. In retrospect I realize both Pat Broeker and David Miscavige had an interest in keeping the status quo with LRH, since both of them had dreams of one day being the new dictator of Scientology once the current Ding Dong king was dead . . .

      • Vistaril

        Sssup, Joe? Cat got your tongue . . . not meaty enough an issue for you? Shall we talk about the introduction of the six-month sec-check for OTs not making sufficiently speedy progress and the BFOs produced (back-dated, perhaps?) to justify the sec-checks? Some say the LRH Advice also used to justify the sec checks applied only at the time it was uttered . . . what say you?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          this whole business of the rabid sec check regime … getting the truth known to the few cash cows out there, would blow the volcano to kingdom come. No, it would implode and go ffffffffttttpooof!~

      • As far as I recollect, What Is a Course is a PL from March 1971. Melanie Murray did not show up until 1978. Maybe it was Jesse. I did not learn of it until years later.

        • sizzle8

          Do you know who wrote the issue “Story of a Squirrel”?

          • Nope but I can guess that DM was heavily, heavily, heavily involved.

  • 1subgenius

    Off topic, but nice:
    Rehtaeh Parsons Case Solved By Anonymous In Two Hours
    Police initially closed the case, saying that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge the alleged perpetrators rapists from the 2011 incident. After Rehtaeh committed suicide last week, it seemed like the tragic end to a pretty horrifying tale.

    This week, the Internet hactivist collective known as Anonymous picked up the story, and decided to pursue their own investigation. According to a statement released by @YourAnonNews, one of the largest news handles for Anonymous, the group was able to confirm the identities of the rapists in roughly two hours.

    • VickiStubing

      My beloved doesn’t appreciate my affinity for Anonymous; he thinks they are all hacker anarchists. But their work on Rehtaeh’s case and everything they do in opposition to Co$ are why I love those guys and gals behind the masks.

      • ThetaBara

        I joined because of KnightSec. I’d always appreciated that the /b/ goons were choosing to use their highly developed sense of assholery to attack scientology (which I have long hated) but my encounters with 4chan were enough to convince me I probably didn’t want to hang out with them, lolcats or not. But then they became more sophisticated and once they started fighting rape culture in particular, I decided it was time to give it a go, much to Mr Bara’s surprise. My local seem like great folks, those I’ve raided with so far. Looking forward to moar!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          They’re like those Aspen forests, which are one tree with widespread roots that can spread for acres. You can’t just a tree by it’s leaves.

          • ThetaBara

            Oh, I know that. I’m not dumb, and I’ve been around the internet block a few times, although I am hardly a hacker. There will always be differences in any group. But overall, their goals of justice and free and fair flow of information, against rape culture and the scilons caused me to reach the tipping point. Which is a good thing. I am already plotting my next move.

            And actually, looking at the leaves is very effective method of tree identification, in my experience.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I so look forward to your leaf letting. I already have a sense of your incredible story telling abilities as well as your fearless letting of an open heart. You will be safely harbored in this community I am almost positive. I get the idea that we all share some kind of common demon as well as common angel, in any kind of metaphorical sense you harken to shape into to your personal fit. I like mine in Columbian whole bean ground coffee and cream, with a dash of cinnamon.

            • ThetaBara

              That was beautiful, thank you. Your posts are so poetic!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Thank god I can blame it all on my ancestors now. I am more than happy to share the glory of the artsy genes, but I have to admit, I miss my indulgences in the eccentric Electric Avenue Bugaloo. And what a sorrow that the kids today might not understand that sentiment.


    • i-Betty

      I love them, anarchic angels that they are 🙂

    • Bella Legosi

      There was a 15 year old who went thru the same thing and she killed herself. The police just arrested them. I would link the artical but it should come up under google news. This goes to show that Anonymous really are not the terroists people make them out to be.

  • InTheNameOfXenu

    When I was in the cult, I found out about Mayo. He was scoffed off as a squirrel. But, I always wondered how Hubbard with all of his supposed abilities could not detect someone so ‘evil’. This always bothered me. It eventually led to to leave staff. All along I was harassed to stay late and do more work for little or no pay. I look back at my W2 from that year and could not believe I worked for so little money. After walking away after a year on staff and refusing to do sec checks or pay my ‘free-loader’ debt, I started reading Bent Corydon’s L.Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman. Once I got to the section of OT III, it was a wrap. Xenu? Body thetans? WTF? After a good laugh, I finished the book and picked up Russell Miller;s awesome bio, Bare-Faced Messiah. There was no turning back. I was freed from a life-time of misery thanks to these brave authors who put their neck out to tell the truth about the evil Hubbard and his destructive cult.

    • RMycroft

      David Miscaviage continues that tradition of being unable to detect people who later denounced as ‘evil’.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        You mean, he covers all the mirrors in his castle? woof

        • RMycroft

          Even after he covered them, they still mutter about “the fairest of them all”.

  • sizzle8

    I believe Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun have the details of the Gebode settlement.

  • Russ Wood

    Thanks for going thru this. I knew the general outlines of this history. There’s an amazing 20m long YouTube video walk thru of the old Santa Barbara AAC, and Mayo seems very impressive.) I agree w the comments that recent independents would do well to familiarize themselves with this history. It’s interesting and enlightening.

  • Midwest Mom

    This was an interesting post, Tony.

    I look forward to reading more about David Mayo from you in the future! It’s also interesting to read the comments here on your site from those who knew him personally through the years. I’m glad that you have this forum for them to share their perspectives so candidly. It’s a daily treasure trove of information!

  • danlocke

    Fascinating also to read “the O.J. Roos Story”; easy to find with Google’s help.

  • stillgrace

    Bury gave us an interesting link 5 hours ago! Thanks, Bury. I found this tidbit of information from Jesse Prince’s essay very interesting:

    “At one point before her “suicide” Flo Barnett, David Miscavige’s mother-in-law, became a member of the AAC.”

    David Miscavige viciously fair-gamed David Mayo, according to Jesse.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist


      Oh, and thanks for the photo,Tony, and David. Wouldn’t have recognized him if I bumped into him. Hello David.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I just got done watching this AAC video and actually found it interesting. No wonder Corporate scientology is afraid of David Mayo. He believed it was necessary to have high quality tech, but it was also necessary to deliver it with high ARC without the oppressive forceful control.

    Anyway, if you have an hour to spare. I think it’s worth viewing this video. I did it because I didn’t know anything about AAC.

    Scientology: Advanced Ability Center

    ByMark Bunker

    Shiona Fox-Ness’ 1984 video of the AAC Santa Barbara.

  • Bella Legosi

    Since I haven’t seen anyone post this before

    This is the song that I believe should play when all of Scientology (maybe Cali too) sinks like a turd in the toilet.

    Indies and Publics should do well to listen to this song as well as Eulogy.

    • BuryTheNuts2


      • Bella Legosi

        Yeah I love Maynard and all his blasphemous music…….I was told Tool did a concert at the Hollywood Bowl and lol they turned that shit up to 11. Everyone in downtown LA were subject to this wondrous noise pollution….. 😀 they fined Tool for noise pollution but I am guessing that was a drop in the bucket and well worth it

    • i-Betty

      I love it!

      • Bella Legosi

        We religious haters in PDX LOVE anything Maynard Keenan. I have come to the conclusion Tool is right up there with Pink Floyd or Rolling Stones.

        Heh…….learn to swim……couldnt be more fitting…..too bad I don’t live near an apartment full of Sea Orgers……they would get the Tool treatment from 830am to 10pm…… 😀

  • Bella Legosi

    Was AAC a part of Mimi Rodgers organization. After the TomKat divorce I read that she was part of an independent movement that split around 83. I also read her father and L Ron worked or knew eachother well.

  • Ze Moo

    Nevada may regulate and inspect their NarCONons.

    And from the maple syrup makers and lumberjacks of Ontario:

    “For much of the last week, Project Chanology’s local adherents have been holding court at Scientology’s Yonge Street chapter, carrying out what they call “flash raids.” Unlike the broader, theme-based demonstrations
    of the past few months—addressing everything from the Church’s notorious Fair Game policy to its very own, admittedly hilarious private navy—the community-targeted, information-based flash raids are, in comparative
    terms, not unlike the ubiquitous mall kiosks festooned with remaindered copies of Dianetics and stress tests: it looks like Scientology will just have to get used to them.”

    • SP ‘Onage

      Keep up the good work Anons. Chanology Rocks!

    • aquaclara

      cheers and whoo whoos to Chanology! outstanding work yielding excitement, press, and results. I do wish I lived close enough to join in the fun. Alas-cheering Anon on from afar.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        When I first heard about Anonymous, Chanology, those running forums, I was astounded. I soon after heard refrains that echoed “they’re all bitter, defrocked, apostates, and SP’s” worn out melody. Anonymous is everything that scientologists long to be when they grow up.

  • Yeppir

    Mayo is, indeed, a fascinating story. I salivate for more that I know I’m not gonna get. But I respect the big squirrel.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Wow! Just saw the update picture of David Mayo! Are you going to interview him, Tony?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I believe David Mayo reitierated over on ESMB that he basically “couldn’t talk” about the horse head in his bed. Okay, I’m making up part of that sentence. But we all know that he will leave something more than his theoretical legacy behind when he leaves this plane of existence. Or, he wins the Lotto and hops a plane to exotic ports. Wanna buy him a ticket?

  • Bella Legosi

    I just tweeted coasttocoastam asking why they don’t do another Co$ show! I know George Noory wont touch it with a 100ft pole, but that doesn’t mean Ian can not revisit the subject. I call for a 4 hour round table show with Tony and Jon at the helm. Coast to Coast has lost much of my respect in recent years or I may be just old and jaded. They will let Alex Jones spout off with his fear mongering, yet something as diabolical as L Ron, Dianetics, or Co$ is taboo? WTF? Especially since there is a Pulizer winner who wrote about Co$ is it too much to ask for a platform such as Coast to Coast at least attempt to tackle this topic? I mean my god they get people who still believe Obama is the antichrist call in and state their “beliefes” and that is just on Anyone Can Call In Fridays! Errrrrrrrrr I am frustrated now! You can’t tell me that nobody would listen to that show either. It is in 525 citys! Imagine the exposure! I am starting to suspect they keep themselves woefully ignorant on anything Co$

    • Artoo45

      They don’t like doing shows about anything that’s actually real . . .

      • Bella Legosi

        Yeah I came to that conclusion when the Nukes didn’t go off back in 2000 lol but goddamn I am tired of them not discussing the ginormous elephant in the room

  • Bella Legosi

    just came across this

    thought you all would enjoy if ya haven’t ran across it yet

    • California

      Excellent information……

  • DeElizabethan

    Thank you Jon for the detail background and a current photo of David, a fascinating person. A time period of interest to me when I used to listen to his tapes. I then went to the first convention of Metapsychology in SF.

  • Goodness me! John Sweeney redux. The next thing will be him wandering into an Org with a hidden camera asking to see the Orientation movie.

    ‘LSE anger at BBC over N Korea ‘student’ reporter’


    The London School of Economics is demanding the BBC withdraw Monday’s Panorama programme about North Korea.

    It says reporter John Sweeney posed as one of its PHD
    students on a university society trip in order to film undercover in the



    • The LSE lost all cred with me as soon as I found out that they were happy to take Gaddafi’s money

      • i-Betty


  • THE CRUISE FAMILY TAKES ANOTHER MASSIVE HIT…. His daughters boyfriend has left the cult!!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Tom Cruise saga reminds me of the time when Dorothy’s friend, Scarecrow, simply dumped a little water on the old bag and she just … melted into oblivion. I stop short of wishing on any human being the malignant agony of losing a child. The only thing worse in life is losing the love of a child. Do I think Tom Cruise deserves that? Yes. I do. But I wouldn’t wish it on him and only because it would hurt his children more than his stone cold conscience. I hope all his children Just Say No to Cults and he wakes up, sets up an appropriate Recovery Fund, and mails in his redemption card as a human being before the U.S. Postal system goes bankrupt.

    • TonyOrtega

      When In Touch called me last week, I tried to explain to their reporter that just because Eddie Frencher has left the Sea Org, it doesn’t mean that he’s left Scientology. I also pointed out that most of my sources had predicted that he wouldn’t get through the EPF, the SO’s boot camp. I haven’t seen the In Touch story itself, which this story is based on, and maybe they have some other evidence that Eddie has left the church. But they didn’t when they called me. They seemed determined to write a story that Tom would be freaking out about Bella being involved with an ex-member. I told them I hadn’t seen any evidence of it. But this is In Touch we’re talking about.

      • tabloid journalists, eh! you can’t take them anywhere, feckers!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Gather gathered up that article so far too. All of them make it sound like Eddie was in the Sea Org for some time, instead of what, months? Still, if you look at what Jacob Barclay has written up about the recent madhouse in PAC, you just gotta know that Bella’s ears are frizzled with Eddie’s young love whispers in her ear. Let’s see if I remember that young age: listen to what my first love boyfriend is saying or dear old dad? Bella is getting a peek into the real world of scientology. I smell Rebel.

      • grundoon


  • mynameisrawl

    Jon truthfully contradicts Tony’s incessant and irrational claims for
    years while at the VV that the “greatest era of expansion” for
    Scientology was the 1980s. As Jon states, and as the stats will verify,
    by 1984, Scientology had been purged of most its membership, leaving
    less than 12,000 Scientologists active and in good standing worldwide,
    and I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual figure was even less than

    Jon Atack, Bent Corydon, and many others have
    shown conclusive evidence that Scientology was sinking fast after the
    massive purges between 1982-1984, plus the founding of the IAS in 84
    along with the introduction of insane international events and
    fundraising efforts for org renos and the acquisition of the Freewinds,
    and membership figures sank even further after the 1987 takeover by
    David Miscavige.

    The only reason Scientology’s
    membership stats began rising in the early 90s was due to the fact that
    2nd and 3rd generation Scientologists began taking courses and joining
    the Sea Org en masse (in other words, the children of veteran
    Scientologists), a large number of raw meat being routed onto CCI lines
    by the staff and students of Beverly Hills Playhouse (with CCI having a
    nicely renovated org established at 5930 Franklin which helped draw in
    raw public), and series of positive press throughout the mid-to-late 90s
    due to John Travolta’s resurgence after Pulp Fiction and his
    increasingly vocal promotion of Scientology.

    And all of
    that pretty much came to a head by the time Battlefield Earth was
    released in 2000, after which everything went downhill from there for
    Scientology. Not even Tom Cruise becoming very fanatically public about
    being a Scientologist couldn’t save things for the Church and in fact
    only made things worse.

    And the rest, as they say, is history.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thank you. Can I ask how you peg these numbers? You are right about the 80’s, this I know, and some others. Just wanted to have verification, and very interesting you bring up BHP and celebrity factors.

    • TonyOrtega

      Marty Rathbun and Jeff Hawkins, two former executives who actually had access to church enrollment figures, each told me that Scientology experienced its greatest expansion through the 1980s until it reached maximum size in 1991, then began its steady decline. If Jon Atack or other people with good evidence provide an alternative to that scenario, I’m happy to reconsider it. But I’m not sure how relying on the eyewitness testimony of such key figures makes me “incessant and irrational.”

      • DodoTheLaser

        I say there was an upsurge in membership after 1992(?) decline, due to Scientology establishing itself in former USSR, Eastern block and Asia. That’s a lot of people. Around mid 90’s there was an updated What Is Scientology? tome, with more enthusiastic (even if embellished) membership numbers. By the late 90’s there was a wave of international recruitment from mainly the US Class V Orgs and Sea Org Orgs. That probably was the point of beginning of the last major decline, since it’s an indication of inability to recruit locally. I’m not Jeff Hawkins though and I don’t disagree with you Tony, just sharing my perspective.

      • grundoon

        Jefferson Hawkins’ successful ad campaigns drew in fresh recruits leading to a boom. But the boom couldn’t last as David Miscavige weaseled to absolute rule over the Scientology enterprise and set out to purge or neutralize LRH’s old guard and every person who showed a speck of competence or independence.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Thank you Tony, Jon and the readers for this EPIC blog today!
    The update with current photo of David Mayo is a bonus!
    Waving hi to David and everyone!

  • DodoTheLaser

    David Mayo’s signature on ESMB:

    “Religion is an insult to human dignity.

    With or without it you would have
    good people doing good things
    and evil people doing evil things.

    But for good people to do evil things,
    that takes religion.”

    – Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

  • OneTimerJohnny

    it would be interesting to know what parts of ‘th tech’ mayo carried forward, and what parts were left behind. perhaps even more, his thoughts in the present day.

    i dabbled in scinto years ago, and it did have a hold, of sorts, for a few years after, subsiding as my world view matured unmolested by mind-control freaks – the certain knowledge that it is all complete bunk has sustained me in later years.

    there is doubtless an interesting story of ‘independents’ moving out of the fold entirely to be told, and i would certainly like to hear it.

  • derfty

    I’m friends with Dave Mayo on Facebook. He has many Scientologist friends, in good standing. He frequently ” likes” posts of success stories from PAC and Clearwater. He is friends with Tony Muhammad, Alfreddie, and other renown members.

  • One correction: not only did Hubbard approve that tech film script, he WROTE it.