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Jon Atack: Why do Scientologists Find it So Difficult to Apologize?

karma2Jon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, you said you wanted to talk about forgiveness in Scientology, which sounds like it could be a pretty volatile subject. Give us your best shot.

JON: I was on the Class II course when the bulletin Proclamation: Power to Forgive was handed down from on high. This was apt, as the Class II course deals with “confessionals,” and the Class II auditor is granted this right of forgiveness along with a pretty, gold-blocked certificate. So, I was one of the first to grant forgiveness to a fellow Scientologist.

I was already bemused that the procedure known by this time as “confessional auditing” or “integrity processing” had formerly been known as “security checking.” Listening to the Hubbard lectures and diligently assessing the course materials, it was strange to me that the very lists used as “security checks” when the procedure was introduced to rein in dissident South African Scientologists had simply been relabeled, without change to their content. In a later development, the confidentiality of such “integrity processing” was waived, and an auditor could simply declare “I’m not auditing you” and the confession could be written up for the ethics file, and distributed according to the needs of Scientology. This despicable variation on confidentiality was a persuasive factor in my decision to leave the organization, along with the reintroduction of “disconnection” and the raft of Suppressive Person declares, issued without trial.

I have watched the new round of defections with interest. Debbie Cook’s brave declaration and the departure of David Miscavige’s principal henchmen — Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun — have caused a seismic shift in the cult, which seems to be moving from conservation into decay, according to the cycle of action, which it teaches. I left because I felt that the true “technology” had been betrayed by the new management. This also motivates current defectors, as it did David Mayo and that half of the membership who left thirty years ago, in the last great exodus. They believe that the world needs to be saved through the application of Scientology. Noticeable among their beliefs, and necessary to them, is this power of forgiveness.

The Scientology confessional procedure is an amalgamation of the Catholic confessional and the Hindu and Buddhist doctrine of karma-vipaka. The act of confession takes the general question of the Catholic confessional and puts it into the specifics of a police or intelligence interrogation. Lists of hundreds of questions may be asked. It is presumed that the penitent will be reluctant to confess, so must be guided and directed, poked and prodded, to give up “withholds.” This is not the case in the voluntary Catholic confessional, where it is presumed that the penitent wants to confess. In Scientology, a therapeutic result is sought, though, as I’ve mentioned above. The confession does not have the seal of confidentiality of the Catholic form, nor indeed of the psychotherapeutic form. As with any other intelligence gathering activity, the information can be used against the penitent. For most defectors, the knowledge that their indiscretions have been recorded is enough to keep them silent. Former members have often told me that they will never speak out publicly, because they don’t want their children to find out about their sexual improprieties or juvenile drug use.

Karma-vipaka is a central doctrine of both Hindu and Buddhist belief. It entered popular culture in the West in the 1960s, though few who use the term have studied the Indian texts, simply adopting the formula “what goes around, comes around” or some such. Hubbard put forward the notion, in a lecture on the Class II course, that the “overt-motivator sequence” as he renamed the traditional action and reaction of karma-vipaka, depends upon the culture of the individual. Putting aside his evident racism, he said that for a “Bantu” (a South African black) it would be an “overt” not to steal. So, in Scientology scripture an “overt” is not an offense against God or the Lords of Karma (who keep the Akashic Record of every act by every living thing — a book necessarily larger than the universe), but against a “moral code.” This becomes troublesome when we find that one of the axioms or “self-evident truths” that govern Scientology is this: “goodness and badness, beautifulness and ugliness are alike considerations and have no other basis than opinion” (Axiom 31). So, what these transgressions are is anybody’s guess.

In the bulletin, Hubbard says that “confessing one’s overt acts is the first step toward taking responsibility for them and seeking to make things right again.” But there is no explanation of these later steps.

I wonder if former members believe that they have been forgiven for their transgressions against critics, simply because of the asserted right in Proclamation: Power to Forgive. At least in the Catholic Church, the penitent is expected to make an act of contrition, but, as a gloating member once explained to me, in Scientology you can do whatever you like and all you have to do is pay for a confessional. Further, as long as you remain a Scientologist, the organization will not report you to any authority (which would be a “high crime”). Soon after leaving, I found that this does not extend to former members. The moment he resigned, an old fellow who had confessed while a member was reported to the police, with the contents of a confession.

In fact, as soon as they leave the fold of official Scientology, the past transgressions of members are unforgiven, and only a “Scientology minister who has been duly trained and certified in the Confessional procedure of the Church of Scientology and is in good standing with the Church with his certificates in force, is invested with the power to forgive the admitted sins of an individual…” (HCOB 10 November 1978R). So, since leaving, there is no one with the authority to forgive them.

Most believers are decent people who fervently believe that they are making the world a better place through their use of the “Tech.” Only a few have been involved in the invidious practices of the Information Bureau, which is tasked to destroy opponents. I experienced harassment on a daily basis for over a dozen years, and it often involved invented rumors, “noisy investigation” and frankly criminal behavior. Only one of those who directed such operations over the years has felt the compunction to even apologize to me for their destructive behavior.

As far as I’m concerned, a beneficial religion or therapy would require contrition and amends, rather than simply shrugging off the vindictive behavior of its members. But perhaps there is a logic within the “Tech” itself. Hubbard said that the Tech doesn’t work unless your ethics are in. Perhaps that is why so little benefit has ever accrued to the use of Scientology, and such considerable harm.

 
——————–

A New Center in Israel? Not So Fast

In the summer of 2012, we broke the news of a startling development in Israel — an entire mission was breaking away from the Church of Scientology. Dani and Tami Lemberger announced that Dror Center, their mission in Haifa, was no longer a part of the church, and that about 40 to 50 church members had all defected together. Since then, Lemberger has regularly reported that Dror Center is thriving as a location for “independent Scientology.” (Here’s a recent report on the Lembergers that Mike Rinder posted at his blog.)

The defection of the Dror Center was significant in a country that otherwise has only one org, in Jaffa/Tel Aviv, and no other missions*. Scientology has always been a tiny presence in the country, and it cannot call itself a religion there.

But then, this week, there was a news story that a new “church” had opened in the northern town of Karmiel, which is only about 50 kilometers from Haifa. The story was very short on details, so we asked Dani Lemberger what he had heard about it — was this a new mission? A new org? What’s happening in Karmiel? He sent us this response…

The Karmiel Center is just another PR hoax. I don’t know much about it, I was forwarded a promo they sent out in Hebrew about a month ago. They make these wild announcements about Jews and Arabs, peace in the Middle East and such nonsense. But no names of who is running it, no auditors, no services offered. Some noise and then nothing. I was told one person active there is Shakib Ali. He is a Druze, was for years active with his family at Dror. He’s one of the few who left us. This activity does not affect us, we’re doing well and expanding.

*It’s been brought to our attention that the “Ideal” org in Jaffa/Tel Aviv replaced an older org in Tel Aviv which apparently still survives in some form. Also, there’s a small mission in Jerusalem. No doubt a few field auditors as well. But Scientology is still a tiny phenomena in Israel.

 
——————–

Another Scientology Tent Party

Yesterday, Mark Bunker got a tip that Scientology would be holding an unannounced Friday night event in the big tent near the Super Power Building in Clearwater, Florida. So he headed over there and then sent us this brief dispatch…

Not a lot to report. I swung by around 10 o’clock and the party was in full swing. The shindig was held in the big tent. When I first arrived I parked on a side street and got as close as I could to the tent and could hear the music and merrymaking inside. There were a couple of Penske trucks parked on the street with their hazard lights flashing. I stood between them to take a little footage of the tent and as soon as I arrived security spotted me and then started following my movements.

I only stayed about 10 or 15 minutes. I wandered around to the front on Fort Harrison Avenue and tried to take a picture down the walkway for the main entrance but really didn’t get a good shot. There was a police car with flashing lights at that main entrance which I saw from several blocks away as I was pulling up to the Fort Harrison.

After taking a couple quick shots at the front gate I headed back to my car. As I drove past that front gate there was now a second police car parked with its lights flashing. As I drove past the entrance to the Fort Harrison Hotel I saw my old pal Antonio from security walking toward where I have been parking with a gaggle of police officers. That was the full extent of the excitement.

Well, we appreciate the effort, Mark. Sure is good to have him down there.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on November 23, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • DodoTheLaser

    Why do Scientologists Find it So Difficult to Apologize?

    Because apologies are for losers.

    • DamOTclese2

      The only difference being Scientology expects their victims to say “Thank you” afterwards.

      • DodoTheLaser

        You are not kidding. No wonder they get a lot of “Fuck you” instead lately.

    • indie8million

      Wasn’t that nice of them? Sort of like the virus removal companies who infect your PC with a virus just so you have to buy their program to get rid of it.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Very good analogy!

        • indie8million

          😀

  • Once_Born

    This may be a little off-topic, but I would like to recommend this short article which dicusses the case of three women who have recently been released from conditions of servitude in the UK.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24643-how-south-london-slaves-may-rebuild-their-lives.html

    Written by a consultant (i.e. high-ranking) clinical psychologist, it is entitled, “How south London ‘slaves’ may rebuild their lives” and could easily be used as a blueprint for the sort of support needed by some people who leave Scientology – especially the Sea Org.

    Reading it, I wonder if the long-term members who leave (or are offloaded by) the CofS and join independent Scientology groups not because they still ‘believe’, but because they find that Independents are the only people with whom they feel they can communicate. This would suggest that what they need is medically-based help and support to help them re-integrate into society – and Independents provide a refuge which impedes their recovery – or arrests it altogether.

    As the {Church} continues to slowly implode, perhaps it is time to consider how to deal with the
    aftermath…

    Details of the news story are at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25059602

    • Verve

      A bad case of Stockholm syndrome.

      • Deimos

        I have long wondered what independents have left to believe in.
        After you remove all the evil bits and general ethical abuse ( Dianethics – the new science of mental abuse). Take out the parts that only exist to control and bind members to the abuser. Then take out all the parts only put in to make money.

        What is left ? A couple of chapters of the original book plus the DVD of battlefield earth.

        • Graham

          “I have long wondered what independents have left to believe in.”

          I’m guessing it’s because of the ‘wins’ they personally gained when they first took up the Tech; wins they could have had more easily using conventional psychotherapy & self-help techniques.

        • Verve

          Or you could go to the actual sources (irony) and read their books (a bunch of “psychs” to boot, more irony), then jumble them up and spout out some shit about an alien and whatever the funk his drug-fueled brain dreamed up. About the only thing missing from his BS was kissing a green alien at some point.

        • MaxSpaceman

          You would need to delve into the tons of different auditing that is available. They can deliver hundreds of different ‘areas of focus’/whatever, to audit on.

          And understanding what is focused on in auditing takes some time. Just remember, the predicate is dianetics auditing, started in 1952. And the sessions one can spend on one’s “present time problems” give the indies results.

          Then, there’s the 2nd generation of dianetic auditing, called NED (new era dianetics, 1970s.) There’s more stuff “help” people in their desire to improve their lives.

          The last thing to remember is that it started as a therapy-kind-of-business. It dint start as a cherch.

      • Once_Born

        With the difference that victims of Stockholm Syndrome were generally physically forced into the situation – for example by being kidnapped by people with guns. The people in London (and ,many in the Sea Org) initially approached and joined an organisation which gradually ramped up the social pressure to conform.

        What they have in common is ‘learned helplessness’.

        • Verve

          I see what your saying. Even after reading your articles, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

          Thanks for the info; helps me understand better.

    • chukicita

      “…I wonder if the long-term members who leave (or are offloaded by) the CofS and join independent Scientology groups not because they still ‘believe’, but because they find that Independents
      are the only people with whom they feel they can communicate.”

      I don’t think this is off-topic at all. I also saw a BBC America story yesterday about the three women, and the mental health professional toward the end of the piece made comments I thought related to Scientology as well. There’s another story on CNN that talks about the women’s ‘invisible handcuffs.’ http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/world/europe/london-slaves-accused-bailed/

      • Graham

        The phrase “invisible handcuffs” seems to have caught the public imagination here in the UK. I’m listening to the BBC’s main radio news channel (Radio 4) and they’ve just trailed a phone-in which will include the question “Is there such a thing as invisible handcuffs?”

        I recall the debates we’ve had here in the Bunker about why the authorities don’t storm The Hole and rescue the inmates; the consensus being that the inmates would probably say they are there voluntarily and wouldn’t wish to lose their “eternity” by leaving.

  • Miss Tia

    “In the bulletin, Hubbard says that “confessing one’s overt acts is the first step toward taking responsibility for them and seeking to make things right again.” But there is no explanation of these later steps.” Obviously emphasis mine, but gee, it’s a shame there was no explanation of the later steps because the CO$ has a lot to take responsibility for and to make right!!! Ooooo I wonder what that party was for!! Hooray for having Mark Bunker on patrol! 🙂

    Did some tweeting this morning and I see Tony has the link I based my first tweets on, as someone had posted that article here with a suggestion that I might get some tweet ideas yesterday. And I profusely apologize for not recalling who posted the article –I have a pretty good memory but when it comes to names, I have some problems, so I am sorry I can’t remember and I thank you VERY much again!!

    “They present themselves as a secular organisation” “they are lying about their identity,” U R 100 % right @YadLachim about @scientology!

    The @scientology self help @YadLachim is nothing more than a pay as you go religion & the claims to keeping UR faith R duplicitous.

    Though dropping the word ‘church’ from their name @YadLachim they will seek every benefit they can AS a church as they do in the USA.

    Please @YadLachim contact the Dror Center info@drorcenter.co.il they broke away from @scientology they can tell U what it’s are REALLY like!

    The way @scientology handles drugs @YadLachim is via vitamins & a sauna. That’s their drug treatment. Even for youngsters! Please stop ’em!

    You also should know @YadLachim that @scientology believes that PSYCHIATRISTS are the ones who were behind the Holocaust! Revised History

    My tweets to @YadLachim were based on this article http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/113373/scientologists-open-church-karmiel so they aren’t a church when it serves their purposes eh? DEVILS!

    Time 2 start the involuntary deductions from staffs already pennies on the dollar wages @scientology 4 a token gift for COB? Is that legal?

    The slaves HAVE to buy their master a gift? How sadistic & cruel is THAT @scientology? Taking the few dollars they earned 4 a billionaire.

    Here’s a gift idea for COB that won’t cost the slaves much @scientology. He can pretend 2 be @mikerinder having fun! pic.twitter.com/laVmAxxNaK [pix from Sunny Sands—hope you don’t mind!! it was too good to pass up!]

    It’s 2 bad COB @scientology can’t have a Scrooge like dream visited by Shelly–past, Tony Ortega–present & Mike Rinder–future! TC=Tiny Tim

    It’s the SEA ORG who should be given gifts in @scientology 4 their servitude instead of them giving MORE to COB who has EVERYTHING! #SoWrong

    Why are @scientology SLAVES having their $50/wk for 100+ hrs worked deducted for COB’s xmas gift? @AC360 @CharlieFrago @WendyWilliams

    What does @scientology do for the communities they’re in? Other churches give back to their communities but the CO$ only takes takes takes!

    This time of year we’ll see the @SalvationArmyUS red kettles collecting funds for their projects helping
    others. Does @scientology do that? [Miss Tia note, I personally do not like the Salvation Army because of their discrimination against gays, but felt they were at least a decent example of charitable giving—well
    unless you’re gay—and they have the fake army going on so there was that to tweet with too….]

    If @scientology set up a kettle they’d KEEP the money! You’d think with their fake navy they’d LOVE the
    Salvation Army with their fake Army!

    & the @SalvationArmyUS is homophobic as is @scientology so with their fake military stuff going
    on they have homophobia! So why no alliance?

    Cuz the Salvation Army will actually, GASP! give money AWAY and that is anathema to @scientology! To HELP others?! Give MONEY away! NEVER!!

    There’s also Catholic Charities nationwide who will help people out of any faith with rent, utilities, or food. @scientology HAS no charity!

    There are countless churches in cities across America that have food cupboards, programs to help people, free meals; but NOT @scientology!

    They are one of the only churches, @scientology, that TAKES TAKES TAKES TAKES and will not GIVE. They don’t even show Sea Org charity!

    When will celebs WAKE UP to the realization that there are TWO versions of @scientology? THEIRS & then others? @tomcruise @kirstiealley

    Denying people the access to ID documents as you do to Sea Org @scientology w/ IDs & passports locked up is HUMAN TRAFFICKING!

    Refusing to return give ID documents that you have locked up @scientology is HUMAN TRAFFICKING! You keep people entrapped this way! STOP IT!

    Why doesn’t COB @scientology FREE THE SEA ORG for Christmas?? FREE those that are being falsely imprisoned including HIS WIFE SHELLY?

    Did you know @scientology a court just ruled that the “parish exemption” is unconstitutional? Oh dear, what will COB do with his HOMES?

  • Miss Tia

    “In the bulletin, Hubbard says that “confessing one’s overt acts is the first step toward taking responsibility for them and seeking to make things right again.”
    But there is no explanation of these later steps.” Obviously emphasis
    mine, but gee, it’s a shame there was no explanation of the later steps
    because the CO$ has a lot to take responsibility for and to make
    right!!! Ooooo I wonder what that party was for!! Hooray for having
    Mark Bunker on patrol! 🙂

    Did some tweeting this morning and I see Tony has the link I based my
    first tweets on, as someone had posted that article here with a
    suggestion that I might get some tweet ideas yesterday. And I profusely
    apologize for not recalling who posted the article –I have a pretty
    good memory but when it comes to names, I have some problems, so I am
    sorry I can’t remember and I thank you VERY much again!!

    “They present themselves as a secular organisation” “they are lying
    about their identity,” U R 100 % right @YadLachim about @scientology!

    The @scientology self help @YadLachim is nothing more than a pay as
    you go religion & the claims to keeping UR faith R duplicitous.

    Though dropping the word ‘church’ from their name @YadLachim they
    will seek every benefit they can AS a church as they do in the USA.

    Please @YadLachim contact the Dror Center info@drorcenter.co.il they
    broke away from @scientology they can tell U what it’s are REALLY like!

    The way @scientology handles drugs @YadLachim is via vitamins & a
    sauna. That’s their drug treatment. Even for youngsters! Please stop
    ’em!

    You also should know @YadLachim that @scientology believes that
    PSYCHIATRISTS are the ones who were behind the Holocaust! Revised
    History

    My tweets to @YadLachim were based on this article http://www.thejc.com/news/worl… so they aren’t a church when it serves their purposes eh? DEVILS!

    Time 2 start the involuntary deductions from staffs already pennies
    on the dollar wages @scientology 4 a token gift for COB? Is that legal?

    The slaves HAVE to buy their master a gift? How sadistic & cruel
    is THAT @scientology? Taking the few dollars they earned 4 a
    billionaire.

    Here’s a gift idea for COB that won’t cost the slaves much @scientology. He can pretend 2 be @mikerinder having fun! pic.twitter.com/laVmAxxNaK [pix from Sunny Sands—hope you don’t mind!! it was too good to pass up!]

    It’s 2 bad COB @scientology can’t have a Scrooge like dream visited
    by Shelly–past, Tony Ortega–present & Mike Rinder–future! TC=Tiny
    Tim

    It’s the SEA ORG who should be given gifts in @scientology 4 their
    servitude instead of them giving MORE to COB who has EVERYTHING!
    #SoWrong

    Why are @scientology SLAVES having their $50/wk for 100+ hrs worked
    deducted for COB’s xmas gift? @AC360 @CharlieFrago @WendyWilliams

    What does @scientology do for the communities they’re in? Other
    churches give back to their communities but the CO$ only takes takes
    takes!

    This time of year we’ll see the @SalvationArmyUS red kettles collecting funds for their projects helping

    others. Does @scientology do that? [Miss Tia note, I personally do not
    like the Salvation Army because of their discrimination against gays,
    but felt they were at least a decent example of charitable giving—well
    unless you’re gay—and they have the fake army going on so there was that to tweet with too….]

    If @scientology set up a kettle they’d KEEP the money! You’d think with their fake navy they’d LOVE the
    Salvation Army with their fake Army!

    & the @SalvationArmyUS is homophobic as is @scientology so with their fake military stuff going
    on they have homophobia! So why no alliance?

    Cuz the Salvation Army will actually, GASP! give money AWAY and that
    is anathema to @scientology! To HELP others?! Give MONEY away! NEVER!!

    There’s also Catholic Charities nationwide who will help people out
    of any faith with rent, utilities, or food. @scientology HAS no charity!

    There are countless churches in cities across America that have food
    cupboards, programs to help people, free meals; but NOT @scientology!

    They are one of the only churches, @scientology, that TAKES TAKES
    TAKES TAKES and will not GIVE. They don’t even show Sea Org charity!

    When will celebs WAKE UP to the realization that there are TWO
    versions of @scientology? THEIRS & then others? @tomcruise
    @kirstiealley

    Denying people the access to ID documents as you do to Sea Org
    @scientology w/ IDs & passports locked up is HUMAN TRAFFICKING!

    Refusing to return give ID documents that you have locked up
    @scientology is HUMAN TRAFFICKING! You keep people entrapped this way!
    STOP IT!

    Why doesn’t COB @scientology FREE THE SEA ORG for Christmas?? FREE
    those that are being falsely imprisoned including HIS WIFE SHELLY?

    Did you know @scientology a court just ruled that the “parish
    exemption” is unconstitutional? Oh dear, what will COB do with his
    HOMES?

    • EnthralledObserver

      Do you get tired of me telling you how you’ve once again done a great job with your tweets? 😉

      • Miss Tia

        Aw thank you! No, I don’t actually, it helps keeps me encouraged! 🙂

        • aquaclara

          I just want to know what’s in your morning dose of caffeine besides coffee! You spin these out so well!

          • Miss Tia

            Just instant coffee (yes I know! some people don’t even consider that ‘coffee’! 🙂 I just get up and whatever ideas I plopped into my head the day before will just start coming out in tweets!! sometimes in afternoons or the evening i’ll have a blast of ideas come to me, but it’s usually in the morning when i get up….

            last night before bed i thought about the deductions for DM’s xmas gift, the lack of charity of their part, and i had that article book marked that someone had posted yesterday—that i read this morning first thing…..then once i start, some others will come to me too! 🙂

            • Collin

              I wish i could afford a dump truck of manure , id dump it right in front of the big ole super duper power building, how this for an implant merry xmas!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              You mean a pile of Dianetics..?

            • Miss Tia

              That’s a good one!! Or drop leaflets over Gold Base with information that ‘freeloader debt cannot be legally held against you’, ‘get to a phone, call 911, get rescued safely don’t route out they won’t let you!’ and/or filled with statements how their families miss them, they’re victims of human trafficking and slavery…..physical abuse is NOT okay, false imprisonment is NOT okay, etc….

              manure at ALL their celeb centers too!!! cruise should be heckled at every public appearance for his support of this cult and his support has gotten how many people trapped in a nightmare?! grrrrrrrr……………

            • Collin

              Miss Tia ever hear of the prank pulled by , i think one of the members of the dead kennedys, he filled a bunch of 55 gallon drums full of green koolaide and spray painted nuclear symbols on the drums and dumped in onto the bay bridge around 7am , i think he said it shut the bridge down for the whole day. i love this stuff..

            • Miss Tia

              I do recall hearing about that!! I love pranks! I’ve never done a big prank, but I once put fliers all over KSU’s campus advertising Cocktails with the President of Kent State and to call the President’s office to register. Made the front page of the Daily Kent Stater 🙂 I still have that somewhere too! Several hundred tried to call to register.

              I’ve done some other little pranks too! 🙂

            • joan nieman

              Lol! Oh Mia, I bet you have and have many stories to tell!

            • Collin

              Ive done a few awesome pranks over the years , my best one was staging the cul-de-sac in my neighborhood as a make shift satanic alter , complete with black candles, innards from my local butcher and tons tons of fresh blood. It shut down the whole neighborhood they even called in the sniffer dogs and helicopters.

            • Miss Tia

              OMFG that’s awesome!!!

            • J. Swift

              My father was a tool & die man, an expert machinist, mechanic, and gunsmith. He had a workshop in the detached garage of our home. In the garage was an old refrigerator in which my father kept beer. When the guys would drop by they would drink beer and shoot the breeze with my dad.

              One day my Dad got the idea to paint the nuclear symbol on beer fridge in the garage. As he was a tool & die man for an aerospace company and had secret clearances, the detail he painted on the beer fridge was incredible. He even used the exact red and yellow enamel the US Gov’t specified for their 1960’s radioactive warning label.

              When the garage door was open, and it was always open when my dad was working in his garage, passerby’s on the street could see the radioactive warning label quite prominently.

              This was in 1963 and my dad’s friends got a big kick out of it.

              One day my dad had the hood up on a 1953 Chevy panel van he was wrenching on. Some of his friends were over drinking beer and helping him work on the panel van.

              They were getting ready to use a cherry picker the pull the engine block when three FBI agents pulled up to the garage and flashed tin.

              A neighbor had called it in. Probably it was ol’ Mel down the street who had personally dropped a bomb on one of “Mr. Tojo’s flattop’s” from the seat of his Dauntless dive-bomber. And then the flat top exploded, he took some shrapnel in his head and shoulder, and he barely got out alive by flying twenty feet off the deck. Heard the story a lot of times. Mel obeyed all regulations and expected others to do the same.

              The FBI did not have a sense of humor and told my dad to remove the label. He got out paint thinner and a scalpel and removed most of it. He then spray painted white enamel over the door.

              The early 1960’s: No Lulz.

              http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/il_570xN434961923_1glx_zpsc3ba20a7.jpg

            • Collin

              That story is amazing!

            • Collin

              Ive done a few pranks over the years , my best one was staging the cul-de-sac in my neighborhood as a make shift satanic alter , complete with black candles, innards from my local butcher and tons tons of fresh blood. It shut down the whole neighborhood they even called in the sniffer dogs and helicopters.

    • Deimos

      I imagine COB will do with homes, just what TC did with his Holmes – pretend the problem doesn’t exist.

      • Miss Tia

        Ooooo, that’s a good one!! 😀

  • Krew13

    I think Slappy’s BFF should apologize for Knight & Day. Boy, did THAT reek!

    • Miss Tia

      LOL!

    • HappyGoLucky

      And while we’re on the topic… how about apologizing for playing German soldiers with american accents in Valkyrie. Come on now.

      • scottishinlondon

        Personally speaking, it always bugs me when actors put on fake accents in order to convey the idea that they are speaking in German (or French or whatever) – it just seems really surreal, and not in a good way. The bonkersness of it is enhanced by the fact that it is generally the supporting cast who do it and the leads don’t, but the idea that having Germans speak English with a German accent to each other gives verisimiltude, is just bizarre.

        • DamOTclese2

          It worked fairly well in Red October with Sean Connery.

          • scottishinlondon

            That’s a valid opinion of course, I just hate the convention. Sean Connery isn’t very good at accents anyway, his Irish accent in The Untouchables came and went, very ropy Irish accent.

      • Krew13

        The interesting thing about that film is that it was clearly a move by Cruise to try and rehabilitate his image in Hollywood after the backlash over his couch jumping antics and the Brooke Shields / Matt Lauer controversy. A comedian at the time said Cruise must’ve thought “I know what I’ll do to make Hollywood like me again. I’ll try and kill Hitler!”

        It was an utterly pointless film, though I do like director Bryan Singer’s work usually. What I’m unhappy about is that, as he’s openly gay, he should not have worked with Cruise, given the Sciloons’ horrific stance on gay people. No gay person should work with that prick or any Sciloon.

    • DamOTclese2

      Hell, even worse, Travolta should apologize for unleashing Battlefield Earth against us. 🙂 I never watched the movie, but the video fragments in reviews were enough.

  • Donut

    Jon Atack continues to disseminate with an elegance and insight that the COS can never match and
    it’s great that Mark Bunker can wander along Fort Harrison Avenue anytime he feels like it.
    The man is a scientologist’s nightmare, an articulate SP who is too good natured to be mistaken for the criminal deviant of LRH’s fevered delusions and too smart to react to bullbaiting.

    • AnonymousSP

      Agreed. Mark Bunker handles the Ronbots very well indeed. He’s one jolly chap doing very important work. I can’t wait for Knowledge Report to be released.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Yes, Jon’s a writer, his book is so much better writing than anything Scientology’s own in house wordsmiths ever dribbled out!

      Reading Jon’s book (both editions) is a such a pleasure!

      • Donut

        Chuck, do you know the expression “Outside the tent, pissing in”? It’s a way of acknowledging that insider experience is the most damaging ammunition once you leave. Well, that’s how I think of your posts but given the acres of canvas currently in downtown Clearwater, I’d hate for you to take it literally 😉

      • Cat Daddy
        • Noni Mause

          Part 3, around 9mins in – Robert B Adams, VP CSI, smugly denies the existence of OSA. “Where are the lawsuits? If it existed there would be lawsuits.”
          WELL SAY THAT AGAIN TODAY, BABY, BUH-COZ WE’D SAY “IN TEXAS, M*THERF*CKER. ARE YOU STILL SMILING UNDER THE WHEELS OF THAT BUS MISCAVIGE THREW YOU UNDER?”

          I hate the lies. Their lies almost make me respect totalitarian dictators – at least those assholes are upfront about the existence of their secret police. Rant over.

          • Cat Daddy

            I love Levay now, he was honest about it, Ron was not

            • Noni Mause

              Apologies for my ignorance. Who is Levay?

            • Cat Daddy

              sorry I got the mame mixed up

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

            • Noni Mause

              Church of Satan. Those initials seem familiar…..

              I almost giggled – that Wikipedia photo looks exactly the way Hollywood would portray the head of the (cough) CoS.

            • Cat Daddy

              I never giggled again after having had a date with a girl that was abused before the age of 6 by a Satanic group

            • Noni Mause

              Eeek. Sorry to hear that. Didn’t mean to trivialise.

            • Casabeca

              That is tragic, I’m so sorry to hear that happened.

        • indie8million

          Did any of you notice at 2:20, TC saluted LRH enthusiastically, but DM started to, and then stopped himself? Man, is that a grossly telling moment.
          “I’m not saluting him and giving him an exulted position over me! I’m gonna cram Tom later on that. How dare he? IIIIIIIII gave him the award, NOT LRH. Ingrate.”

    • DamOTclese2

      The man is a scientologist’s nightmare

      I’m not so sure about that, I think he’s a crime syndicate nightmare but actual Scientology customers themselves eventually discover that Mark is one of the good guys.

      • Donut

        Good point DamOTclese2. I should have said Scientology’s nightmare. i have nothing against scientology’s members and customers and I credit Mark Bunker with helping me discern the difference between the ruthlessness of the corporate body and individual scientologists, who in the main are more like victims. His original video address to Anonymous made a terrific impression on me and many others at the time. I learned from Mark Bunker that to engage with individual scientologists with good grace and dignity, while keeping mindful of the corporate abuses is more effective. One of the reasons I respect the posts and commenters on this site is that most contributors get the distinction and are more informed and interesting because of it.
        Tory Christman’s account of the effect Andreas Heldal-Lund’s understanding approach to her as a person when she was dealing with internet criticism on behalf of scientology is very powerful and it’s an attitude that characterises the best of of the exes who have written brilliant books and blogs about their experiences. The contrast with Miscavaige is striking. It seems that leaving scientology is the only completion with real wins.
        If scientology is is losing ground then I want to be part of that, but it will take a while yet, so it’s important to to be welcoming on this side of the exit door. Clearing the cult one ex member at a time. Sorry for rambling, I try keep my posts short and oily.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      NO DONUT NO!

      Jon Atack does not explain anything about Scientology, and, factually, the man is a legendary source of wholetrack suppressive entheta second only to (name withheld).

      Only COB RTC David Miscavige can properly and correctly explain Scientology:

      http://youtu.be/dGYM4ZMMDL4

      • Cat Daddy
        • indie8million

          Hey. I was on one of those ships…and in the Crusade, and, and, and…

          So sad to see in 2013. Bait and switch to all who believed. If they only knew who they were defending.

          If you’re still in, good job on reading this. Read more. Search Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun and especially, Scott Campbell on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACJSR-Smr8c

          People aren’t making this stuff up. This isn’t the Scientology you signed up for. There are plenty of standard, LRH trained auditors out here. You won’t “lose your eternity” if you come out. You might if you stay in. Looking forward to seeing you.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        OK, so I managed to get through the video from OTVIIIisGrrr8! above.

        The IAS freedom medal winners in 2011 were: Tatyana Malchikova and Azgar Ishkildin.

        The things they were said to have done should have brought them a lot of attention, I would have thought. I Hearsayed their names, and Azgar Ishkildin came back with 59 results and Tatyana Malchikova 45. Of course, I was using western lettering, but still, that is not a lot of hits for people who have supposedly cleared the 9th largest population on earth from “the psychs”.

        Could someone who speaks Russian (I know a few of you guys do) do a Russian search of them, to find out how big they really are in Russia, and if they have made an impact on the drug industry at all in Russia?

        Thanks!

        • J. Swift

          Interesting note Johnny Tank: While the Cult of Scientology claimed to have triumphed over Russian Psychiatrists in 2011, the Church just today declared that it now must help the heroin crisis in Russia: http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1573923

          One can conclude, therefore, that by conquering the Psychs in Russia, the the Church of Scientology caused the heroin crisis. Deprived of Psychiatry and its medications, you see, the Russians turned to heroin.

          The heroin crisis is date coincident with the destruction of Psychiatry, and and, “date coincident” is accepted as proof of a claim in Scientology.

  • AnonymousSP

    It sure is nice having Mark Bunker in the hive again. Also happy to see another edition of A Piece of Blue Sky about to be released. Keep on enturbulating everyone because the cult’s on it’s last leg.

  • Espiando

    So, in other words, Scientology’s following of Hubbard’s Proclamation can be summarized as follows:

    We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.

    Hmmmm, sounds familiar…

    • Observer

      Except their motive is enslavement and oppression, while Anonymous’ is liberation.

      • Missionary Kid

        Oh, but remember, LRH says that the bridge leads to freedom. 😉

    • AnyOldName1

      CRAP!!! Think the “church” will sue for copywrite violations? LOL

  • Verve

    Thank you Jon & Tony. As a never-in, each week (also with Claire) I’m getting new insights into how mad the whole $ci thing is. Hubbard was almost the Mule from Asimov’s Foundation series- he controlled so many people into doing stuff it’s scary.

    • Missionary Kid

      That gets me wondering if Asimov patterned the mule after LRH. It’s too late to ask. I don’t think he did, but LRH acted the part.

  • With GATII and retraining of auditors we won’t see anyone with the “power to forgive” in years. And common sense, compassion and empathy are not present either.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Mark hitting the Scilon streets whenever he feels the urge is something that keeps me hopeful and expectant for something exciting coming along here every day. It might not be likely, but I’ll take possible… that’s hopeful enough.
    It occurred to me the other day that in making comparison’s to other religions $cientology doesn’t just target an individual’s peace and eternity when it makes it’s promises – what it does is it ties an individual’s eternity up with ‘clearing the planet’, meaning that it can only deliver a safer, saner world to the individual, if the entire (or at least the majority of) the populations are also implementing $cientology correctly and effectively. It’s certainly part of the mind fuck – one cannot ever be content to just believe what he wants in his quest for inner peace and understanding – he MUST convince everyone else he knows to join him in his endeavour or else he will fail still fail no matter how diligent he is with his own personal progression.
    In contrast, other religions (some, not all) tend to focus on the individual and their inner peace gained through their personal relationship with God, and that can be attained even if they never convince anyone else to go along with them.
    With this in mind it is sad to note that $cientology and $cientologists will ALWAYS be at WAR with the rest of the world – because they cannot convince any but a few!

    • Verve

      As Tony said before, it’s not constructive to even discuss the religious aspects of Scientology; it’s tar pit of blah blah blah. We need to focus on the actions and the tangible negative affects- bankrupting people, fraud, child labor, forced abortions, ripping families apart, “fair gaming,” BS lawsuits.

      I could be a Pastafarian one day, and switch over to Pizzatarian the next, and FSM isn’t going to send sex toys to my wife’s office. Actions over concepts are the problem.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Tony said he wouldn’t indulge in discussion within his daily post about whether $cientology was a ‘cult’… I however can discuss whatever religious angles I like as a mere commenter here. It’s constructive to the point that I can then gain an understanding of this entity fully and then in turn interpret their actions with that perspective. I write these musings I have here because I’m interested in other’s opinions of what I’ve comprehended or deciphered or uncovered with my thoughts.
        You are free, of course, to concentrate wholly on the cult’s public actions if you like. 🙂

        • Verve

          Sorry, I came off too strong.
          Please, discuss all you wish. I was in “mod mode” from another site, and I dumbly transferred that over to here. Stoopid monkey.

          And to be honest, I’ve probably written about their ideas before. So I’m also a hypocrite. I’d delete my post, but I’m honor-bound to leave it up as a testament to my bone-headedness.

          • EnthralledObserver

            No problem… thank you for explaining your position. 🙂

            • Verve

              Also, I edited my original post. Going back to read after what you said, it just sounded dumb as nails, so I tossed it.

              Sometimes I am just a monkey.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sometimes, we all are. 😉

          • MaxSpaceman

            You need more bananas, Vervey. A banana break !

      • Rachel Heidi

        That can’t be right. Tony just published this blog entry which does the same thing…

        • Verve

          I just went and edited my original post. It was pretty dumb, actually.

      • Espiando

        But what about those of us for whom the religious aspects are the vital areas? I really don’t care about the “negative effects” more than I do about the wording of 1.1 and the anti-Psych stuff. The negative effects just add the rancid cherry on top of the manure cake.

        And if FSM sent sex toys to your wife’s office, it would be regarded as a blessing and sign of favor. Jah Pastafari.

  • chukicita

    Thanks for this thought-provoking discussion, Jon and Tony. It’s going to take me awhile to understand that forgiveness, which comes to many children and dogs as naturally as breathing, in Scientology is not something everyone can just do for themselves but requires some kind of official certification.

    And that forgiveness evidently isn’t perceived as a mechanism to ‘blow charge’ for ‘engrams’ (if I’m using the lingo correctly).

    I guess I can stop wondering if I’ll ever get an apology for the threats, the fear, the PIs outside my house, the trying to get me fired from my job, etc. that I endured as a never-in who asked difficult questions.

    • NOLAGirl

      I hate that, that has happened to you and everyone else they’ve done it to chukicita. I doubt you’ll ever get an apology either, but living a happy, free life with good friends and no shackles is your best revenge. ; ) Sending lots of love your way!! (((HUGS)))

      • chukicita

        Forgiveness is free for wogs. 😀

        • NOLAGirl

          Sure is. 🙂 Speech is free too……Oooo Tiny Boots must hate that. LOL 🙂

    • Verve

      The monkeys all forgive you. And give you a free complimentary banana!

    • aquaclara

      Sorry, C. That this happened to you, and as we see or hear it happening to so many others. Horrible. I wonder how many others can’t talk about it but are also experiencing this kind of abuse and harassment.

    • MaxSpaceman

      You can *for sure* stop wondering, Chuck, I am sorry to confirm. I don’t recall ever hearing about the cherch attacking a never-in; that’s awful and hoping the wounds/hurt heals.

      • chukicita

        Oh, it’s happened a lot; Paulette Cooper’s book ‘Scandal of Scientology’ details her horror story which is much, much worse than mine. Also Gabe Cazares. Jeff Jacobsen. Mark Bunker. Keith Henson. Bob Minton – all of their stories make mine look lame. None were ever in. And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

        • i-Betty

          Tony Ortega.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Yes, I’m aware of all those and others. I didn’t think you meant a journalist. Or anyone on their ‘attack list.’

          I thought you meant just a John Q. Public type person, who voiced criticism. Mea culpa, my mistake.

          • chukicita

            No worries – I am just a JQP never-in who voiced criticism. So are Keith Henson, Jeff, Mark, Bob, Barb, Grady and many, many others who ended up on their attack list for voicing their opinions.

        • indie8million

          Bob Minton wasn’t in? I didn’t know that. Paulette Cooper WAS in though. She actually audited LRH according to someone who said so in a video from one of the “Old Timer’s Network” meetings that Arte Maren was putting together. That was before it got shot down in flames. It was a labor of love, getting all of the old timers’ stories on video before they passed on. I guess tiny boots didn’t like THAT either.

          It seems the real old-timer’s network just all left and started their own networks, free from the “you can’t say that” committee.

          • chukicita

            No, you are very much mistaken. Bob Minton was never in. Paulette Cooper was never in either.

            Arte Maren, however, is ex-Guardian’s Office from Snow White, of the unindicted co-conspirator variety. I have no idea what you’re talking about.. And I’m not sure why you’d think I would know.

            • indie8million

              I didn’t say that Bob was in. I said that I didn’t KNOW that he was never in.

              I have been looking on-line to see any documentation that said Ms. Cooper was in Scientology and haven’t found any. Maybe the person in the video was mistaken. If I can find that video and upload it, I will but, for now, I can’t find any evidence of her having been in so I stand corrected.

              Yes, that’s true about Arte. I know Arte and he was a co-conspirator. I wasn’t asking, I was trying to share this information. Arte also started something called, “The Old Timer’s Network” which was an attempt to preserve the stories and experiences from people who had been in Scientology from the 50’s and 60’s. They would have meetings and the old guys would talk about what happened and all this stuff was recorded on video. I would bet that at least half of those interviewed (that haven’t passed) are out now.

              After a few years, it was disbanded. I think that little DM got his panties in a wad that the old timer’s weren’t sticking to the script. haha! Maybe some of the commenters here were in that group before they left.

              Sorry about the confusion and I hope that makes my meaning clearer, Chukicita. 🙂

            • chukicita

              Thank you, yes, it does.
              It’s good that those stories were recorded. Who has the videos?

            • indie8million

              You’re welcome. 🙂 I’m glad.
              Yes, I’m happy they were too. I’m not sure who has them. If anyone knows, I’d love to see them again. I’ll check around and see too.

              There are a lot of people who have made videos after they came out of Scientology, if you’d like to see some of the people who were in before Miscavige. It was a whole different Scientology for the people who were studying it and it’s a WHOLE lot different than the current crush reg, money grubbing BS we have today. That’s why there are so many Indies. They want to have the “Original” fun Scientology.

              Candy Swanson was on the ship with LRH and she’s done a lot of recordings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df7oX2yj1jc

              Phil Spickler has some interesting stuff too. In since the early 50’s.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCI6KjadHCk

              And Mary Freeman. Trained on the Briefing course with Ron. If anyone isn’t familiar with Scientology, she uses some specialized words in here.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDfK3dl_OHo

              This might help with some of the words: http://www.iasmembership.org/feature/glossary/

            • indie8million

              Not sure. I’ll ask around. Were you in some? 🙂

    • Seannie5

      “I guess I can stop wondering if I’ll ever get an apology for the threats, the fear, the PIs outside my house, the trying to get me fired from my job, etc. that I endured as a never-in who asked difficult questions.”
      Yikes – were you picketing or did you post under your real name online or something?

      • chukicita

        I posted on a.r.s.starting in 1994. I didn’t try hard to hide my identity. I was skeptical of Scientology for several reasons. I live near Flag and one of the Scientologists on the newsgroup (Good News Stu) invited me for a tour. I was interested as a college student of social sciences to see if there was some kind of social impact assessment that could be done that would give insight to whether or not the impact of Scientology upon a community was positive, as they suggested, or negative, as critics suggested. I accepted Stu’s kind offer, and saw some things I don’t think he intended me to see. Because I asked difficult questions out loud about sensitive issues – not a shouting match or anything, just questions – Stu told me in a cheerful, Tone 40 voice that PIs would be digging into my past for my crimes. I continued to post questions, observations, and criticisms.

        They called the university and tried to get me fired from my university job for posting ‘hate speech’ or some such. I attended the first Internet picket in Clearwater in 1994 and several thereafter. I visited the LMT on several occasions, and participated in other pickets and actions. I’m not into lobbing cheap ad hominem attacks or tearing down victims.

        I found my trash dumped out or missing, my car broken into 6 times (but we lived in a not so great ‘hood, so who’s to say?), missing mail/bills, people parked outside my house (eventually I just brought out bottled water and asked if they needed anything else) – one guy pretended to be a law officer and I reported him. Once the axle fell off my car and the mechanic told me it had been messed with – was it Scientology? I sure didn’t have any other enemies that I knew of. Things happened to my credit rating that took years to fix. Many other things happened I could not explain.
        I had small children, so I thought it was prudent to back off a bit on my activities. But all I ever did was attempt open discourse, so they were pretty effectively trying to ‘shudder me into silence.’

        I think the uncertainty – is it some Scn on an amends project to ‘deliver an effective blow to the enemy’ or is it just coincidence? – is part of the way they use terror of Fair Game tactics.

        • Seannie5

          Fucking hell, that is really appalling.

          “Stu told me in a cheerful, Tone 40 voice that PIs would be digging into my past for my crimes.”
          Did he even attempt to answer your questions before saying that?

          • chukicita

            They were very careful non-answers. At first he tried to get me to agree with him about something general then he tried to tell me something unrelated was related. My issues had to do with:
            1) the disparity between the information Scn presented about itself (statistics, etc) and information available from more neutral sources (wogs lie)
            2) the young people I saw dressed in black running with garbage cans and bruises (a religious order, like nuns and monks)

            3) the lack of people of color (I was told first that it was because a lot of europeans came for services; when i pointed out that this observation spanned several years, he switched gears and said black folk didn’t spend their money on spiritual things, but instead spent money on material things).

            Stu also told me he and his wife were planning to sell their home to go OT. Stu was an FSM, meaning he got a percentage of every book or service he ‘sold.’

            • indie8million

              What?? “Black folk didn’t spend their money on spiritual things, but instead spend money on material things”??? Christ on a crutch. WHO has kept most of the Baptist churches alive? People of color. When a family in their church gets the stuffing knocked out of them by some hurricane or other natural disaster, who is bringing food and water and loving on the people and helping them find a place to live? All that takes money too.

              The African Americans I’ve met are just so filled with their own
              spirituality that they aren’t in “need of change” and feel that they can
              find the answers in the Bible. Because they have their own solutions,
              they are technically not potentially Scientology public.

              I don’t know who that idiot was but what a stupid f’ing thing to say. I’ve been a Scientologist for a LONG time (though under the radar now) and THAT is what gives the good people who are trying to help others a bad name.

              What a freakin’ moron. THAT GUY should be declared not only suppressive (if only because he’s a menace to Scientology) but a complete cretin.

            • chukicita

              It was Hubbard’s thought. Stu was just parroting it. It doesn’t give good people a bad name. It gives Hubbard a bad name.

              Could you please expand on what you mention above, that “Because they have their own solutions they are technically not potentially Scientology public” sentence?

            • indie8million

              Hi Chukicita,

              No, I must disagree. I’ve been in and around what Ron said for a long time and he never said that about African Americans. Not even. That was just Stu’s grasping for an answer that he didn’t have. He was makin’ it up. What a racist thing to say. Maybe Stu is a ‘nice guy’ but that was just a stupid thing to say. 🙂 No offense to you. If you have never been in, how could you know if the guy is parroting Ron or just spewing nonsense that he was making up as he went along. LOL. He was just showing his own, personal racism, IMHO.

              Yes, what I meant by “Because they have their own solutions, they are not technically potentially Scientology public” is this. When studying the policies on disseminating, Ron says, that if someone has a solution (to their problems), for example is doing a practice other than Scientology – Buddhism, Christianity, jogging, whatever – and they feel that that practice has the potential to answer all his/her questions, they have no reason to reach for Scientology. Because of that, Ron said, basically, don’t waste your time on them. They aren’t looking for a solution outside of their “practice”. I believe, prior to Luis Farrakhan bringing in his ranks, there weren’t a lot of Scientologists of color.

              There was an influx in the 90s which was great but then a lot left too.

              I hope that helped.

            • chukicita

              Have you ever read Hubbard’s Therapy Section of Technique 80: Part I, Route to Infinity, 21 May 1952? Because there he talks about how he thought black folk imbue MEST with personality – anthropomorphizing hats and such. Stu seemed to believe it supported his argument, that black people were too tied to MESTy stuff to understand why spending all their money on Scientology would be a good thing.

              I agree that Scientology has some pretty obvious barriers to pan-cultural acceptance. But if it’s supposed to clear the PLANET, and the tech work 100 percent of the time, and is the only way out, then what happens to all the black folk in Scientology’s vision? There certainly comes a time when ‘mixed practices’ aren’t acceptable.

              Plus, I have a little issue with considering a whole subset of human beings on the basis of skin melanin as if they move and think all the same. Racial profiling isn’t cool. Isn’t it questionable for an organization’s policy to not ‘waste your time’ on a whole subset of human beings, when a) the organization purports to have THE only way to survive, and b) concurrently out of the other side of the organization’s mouth is coming urgency and planet-clearing and ‘dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.’

              Can you see why this would be disconcerting?

            • indie8million

              Yes, I actually have listened to all of those lectures. I don’t want to defend any racial behavior at all because I’m totally against it. My only comment about that is that Hubbard was a product of his time period. A lot of things were said in the 50s that people thought were science or were a result of group agreement. I don’t condone it, just saying that we weren’t as advanced as a culture in 1952 as we are today.

              Having said that, imbuing anything with personality doesn’t seem like a negative statement to me. I would think it was a compliment – much like the puppeteer imbues life into his cloth sock puppets or the sculptor imbues life into stone or clay. If Stu was using that as a reference, I’d say that he didn’t understand what he was reading and altered in his mind to justify his inability or unwillingness to “FSM” “people of color.” That’s my 2-cent’s worth on Stu-boy.

              Ron wasn’t racially profiling anyone with that statement about someone having a solution. He said anyone who was doing any practice that they believed in and felt would handle all of their problems in life wouldn’t be interested in Scientology so just go on to the next guy who might be open to a new solution to his problems. He wasn’t referring to any race in that reference, only people who wouldn’t be interested.

              Are you talking about the reference in Science of Survival which talks about the covert hostility tone level? “Dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.” That has nothing to do with race, only about people who say or act like they are helping you while secretly trying to trip you up the best they can. I have dated some of those types and wish I had “disposed of” them quicker than I did!! LOL!! Definition of “Disposed of” – walked away without fighting, trying to make them make sense or anything because there is no winning against someone who wants someone to lose, no matter what.

              It has nothing to do with black or white, gay or straight, Scientologist or Catholic. In every group, in all of society, the covertly hostile person exists. If they secretly want to hurt you or lessen you in any way, walk away, walk away.

              But the way you were hearing it, yes, I definitely see how that could be disconcerting.

            • chukicita

              It seems like you’re making excuses and doing a lot of verbal gymnastics to sugarcoat or make acceptable some things that really aren’t. Is that an example of “verbal tech?”

              First you say Ron was a product of his time – then you say he wasn’t racist. Which is it? There were may others alive in 1952, which was a time of important advances in civil rights, who transcended the pressure to behave like racists.

              I guess I would expect anyone who was a spiritual leader holding the keys to
              human survival to be one of those people.

              You say that Ron wasn’t making a racist statement because it “doesn’t seem like a negative statement” to you – that it was more like a compliment. Whether it’s negative or positive to you isn’t the indicator for whether it’s racist. You have made, I’m sure quite inadvertently, several racist statements just in our conversation here.

              I think that racism and hostility toward LGBT folks is built in to Scientology.

              Looks like we’re going to have to agree to disagree about some things.

            • indie8million

              I’m just answering questions that you asked with my best logic hat on.

              I’m not going to continue on the racist trail. As you say, we’ll have to agree to disagree on some things. Yes. 🙂

              I had a feeling that you might be trying to get around to the LGBT issue when you posted the quote from Science of Survival. I have 2 things to say about that.

              1) I can’t excuse, condone or pretend to know what Hubbard was thinking, what his prejudices were nor can I change them. We all know what he says there in the covert hostility section about gays and,

              2) please keep in mind that there is a difference between Scientology and individual Scientologists – and definitely a difference between each Scientologist and Hubbard.

              Case in point, I’ve always been uncomfortable with his conclusion about “gays being covertly hostile.” It’s a gross generality so it can’t possibly be true for the whole LGBT community. That’s MY viewpoint.

              If I may say so, one thing that I would suggest to anyone commenting here, is that being prejudiced about Scientologists is still prejudice. I understand the humor about the crazy sh*t that DM is doing and I even understand the disagreement with some of Ron’s actions. But please remember that each Scientologist is as different as each of you. Many are actually intelligent, caring people who have been bamboozled while some are the same kinds of idiots we all have to put up with daily.

              Nice talking with you Chukicita. 🙂 Thanks for the opportunity to explore some of this stuff.

            • chukicita

              It’s nice talking with you, too. I think your viewpoint is an important one to consider here. Maybe I understand why your nick starts with ‘indie.’ 😀 I think you’re right that Scientologists are like any other group of people – some are jerks, some aren’t. But it might be enlightening to look closer at why they don’t represent everyone, and what their plan is for those who don’t fit the mold.

              Thanks for your candor – it took a bit for you to stop defending Hubbard, though, and be honest about your discomfort with some of his conclusions.

              I hope you can really understand the difference between attributing traits to people because of something a person has no control over – like skin color or sexual preference – and being intolerant of an abusive organization and those who *choose* to sustain it with a blind eye to the damage it causes with the belief system it uses to exert control over people and communities

            • indie8million

              Thanks a lot, Chukicita 🙂 I appreciate the welcome!

              I believe that all of our viewpoints are important because we all see different aspects of the problem. I want to think with what you see, never having been in, with the person who has been personal friends with Hubbard and feels he really cared about people, etc. And then there’s mine, in the middle. I was in for a lot of years, corresponded with Ron directly a dozen times or so and do feel, from my experience that I got value from studying Scientology. The original Scientology, not this poison pen version. Yes, indeed, that’s why my nick starts with Indie. 😉 The 8million part is because Heber Jenszch used to say there were 8 million Scientologists. Well my nickname says, “The 8 millionth Scientologist has just gone indie.” LOL!

              And then there are the folks who hate Hubbard and who are on a campaign to say that he did nothing but suppress people. There are valid points that they have, aspects of him that I’ve not seen myself but apparently happened. Did happen. Shouldn’t have happened.

              My feeling about that is that, no matter what he did or didn’t do, Ron’s dead now. RIP. There is nothing that I can do in this present time to reverse anything he might have done to harm. So I feel my time is better spent getting rid of the little Caligula who is actively doing things to hurt people NOW and do some triage to save the original, helpful version of Scientology.

              Ron was a friend of mine and was an actual, living human being. I hope that, when I’m gone, if someone says that I did something wrong, they temper it with things I did right as well. Granted, I never did anything like what people are saying that he did, but still. I’m sure you can see my point.

              The ex-Scientologusts/Indies will recognize this anonymous (small a) poem that Ron made policy:

              “There’s so much good in the worst of us

              And so much bad in the best of us

              That it ill behooves any of us

              To talk about the rest of us.”

              I certainly can see what you see about being judged too. No one should be judged by factors they have no control over. I watched the Civil Rights movement on TV as a child, real time, and I cried at the injustice and the hate. I still do. I stopped dating an @ssh%le who said he used to beat up gays in high school (and this was 15 years after the fact) and who still thought it was funny. Atrocious.

              And, as a counter-point, I hope you can see my viewpoint too that THE ORGANIZATION, in particular David Miscavige and his management Nazis, are the true culprits for the current crimes. Yes, Hubbard may have started all this but Miscavige has CHOSEN to forward and augment the suppressive control and abuse.

              The few thousands of honest Scientologists who are left in and who support that group are held in the dark like mushrooms. And they are told that it’s heaven. And if they look anywhere else or read anything like this blog, they’ll be taken out of this “heaven” and left alone in the cold grey universe, floating along with no hope for their “Eternity”. Sort of like the matrix. They are, factually, in the sh*t but are fed an illusion so they stay there, giving their energy. Those are the kind people who do go out and help people in emergencies and are there to help people and try to be better people.

              Now THAT’s what makes CORPORATE Scientology evil. I’m as pissed off about it as you all are. They are tricking MY friends and making it hard for them to get free of it.

              That’s the real trick here. To get the good people to see what they’re actually sitting in, when they won’t even look away for fear of losing their families and their “Eternity.”

              That’s not the Scientology that I joined. And that’s why I’m an Indie, albeit, under the radar at the moment. Someone has to open the door to let people out of the trap. 😉 Show them where the door is on their own “Truman Show.”

              Ok. I’ll come off my soapbox. We now return you to your regularly scheduled comments. 🙂 Thanks for listening, Chukicita. I’m happy to listen to you too.

            • indie8million

              Thanks a lot. 🙂 I appreciate the welcome! I believe that all of our
              viewpoints are important because we all see different aspects of the
              problem. I want to think with what you see, never having been in, with
              the person who has been personal friends with Hubbard and feels he
              really cared about people, etc. And then there’s mine, in the middle. I
              was in for a lot of years, corresponded with Ron directly a dozen times
              or so and do feel, from my experience that I got value from studying
              Scientology. The original Scientology, not this poison pen version.
              Yes, indeed, that’s why my nick starts with Indie. 😉 The 8million part
              is because Heber Jenszch used to say there were 8 million
              Scientologists. Well my nickname says, “The 8 millionth Scientologist
              has just gone indie.” LOL!

              And then there are the folks who hate
              Hubbard and who are on a campaign to say that he did nothing but
              suppress people. There are valid points that they have, aspects of him
              that I’ve not seen myself but apparently happened. Did happen. Shouldn’t
              have happened.

              My feeling about that is that, no matter what he
              did or didn’t do, Ron’s dead now. RIP. There is nothing that I can do
              in this present time to reverse anything he might have done to harm. So
              I feel my time is better spent getting rid of the little Caligula who
              is actively doing things to hurt people NOW and do some triage to save
              the original, helpful version of Scientology.

              Ron was a friend
              of mine and was an actual, living human being. I hope that, when I’m
              gone, if someone says that I did something wrong, they temper it with
              things I did right as well. Granted, I never did anything like what
              people are saying that he did, but still. I’m sure you can see my point.

              The ex-Scientologusts/Indies will recognize this anonymous (small a) poem that Ron made policy:

              “There’s so much good in the worst of us

              And so much bad in the best of us

              That it ill behooves any of us

              To talk about the rest of us.”

              I
              certainly can see what you see about being judged too. No one should be
              judged by factors they have no control over. I watched the Civil Rights
              movement on TV as a child, real time, and I cried at the injustice and
              the hate. I still do. I stopped dating an @ssh%le who said he used to
              beat up gays in high school (and this was 15 years after the fact) and
              who still thought it was funny. Atrocious.

              But, as a
              counter-point, I hope you can see my viewpoint too that THE
              ORGANIZATION, in particular David Miscavige and his management Nazis,
              are the true culprits for the current crimes. Yes, Hubbard may have
              started all this but Miscavige has CHOSEN to forward and augment the
              suppressive control and abuse.

              The few thousands of honest
              Scientologists who are left in and who support that group are held in
              the dark like mushrooms. And they are told that it’s heaven. And if
              they look anywhere else or read anything like this blog, they’ll be
              taken out of this “heaven” and left alone in the cold grey universe,
              floating along with no hope for their “Eternity”. Sort of like the
              matrix. They are, factually, in the sh*t but are fed an illusion so they
              stay there, giving their energy. Those are the kind people who do go
              out and help people in emergencies and are there to help people and try
              to be better people.

              Now THAT’s what makes CORPORATE Scientology evil.

              That’s
              the real trick here. To get the good people to see what they’re
              actually sitting in, when they won’t even look away for fear of losing
              their families and their “Eternity.”

              That’s not the Scientology
              that I joined. And that’s why I’m an Indie, albeit, under the radar at
              the moment. Someone has to open the door to let people out of the trap.
              😉 Show them where the door is on their own “Truman Show.”

              Ok.
              I’ll come off my soapbox. We now return you to your regularly scheduled
              comments. 🙂 Thanks for listening, Chukicita. I’m happy to listen to
              you too.

              (I hope I didn’t post this twice…sorry for the duplicate if I did.)

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              “he never said that about African Americans. Not even.”

              He appears to have said quite a bit about other Africans. (source: lots of quotes that come up with a Google search.)

            • indie8million

              Yes he did say a lot about Africans. I believe that was when he was in Rhodesia, in the 60’s. I was just saying that I never read anything where Ron said that they “didn’t spend their money on spiritual things, but instead spend money on material things.” That was Stu’s conclusion about what he’d read (see Chukisita’s later post).

              Yes, he was a man of that time period. We’ve stopped circulating everything from books to cartoons that were commonplace at that time but are now considered racist.

            • Robert Eckert

              Ron was very retrograde even by the standards of the 50’s.

    • Glibby

      I was lucky enough to have a very kind ex-Sientologist appear at my door a couple of years ago, saying that she had been directed to spy on my house for the church, and that she was sorry. I was really surprised, as I didn’t know it was happening. Some personal info had been posted on rfw’s short-lived message board, including the names of other people on the school committee I was on (lol Google), but I didn’t know people were actually parked out front.

      So, we had some tea, talked about Scn, and later went to a protest together. Lovely person.

    • OrangySky

      You were Fair Gamed as a never-in? May I ask what prompted them? PS – Love your Avi.

      • chukicita

        My avi stands for the black panther that’s in Dianetics. When I read that, I thought how foolish that destroying the panther or being destroyed were the only options given. I explained my experience elsewhere in today’s comments…

  • Graham

    Parsonage exception. Off topic but possibly (?) relevant. I’m not a legal expert and, as a Brit, the privileges extended to religion in the USA baffle me, but here it is for what it’s worth. It’s an apparently successful challenge to the parsonage exception whereby pastors can get tax exemptions on their homes, even for things like swimming pools: http://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/19361-ffrf-gaylor-barker-overturn-‘parsonage-exemption’-clergy-privilege

    I’m guessing this is one tax loop-hole $camatology does not make use of (??) though may indicate a slight turning of the tide in the USA with regard to the privileged tax status of religions?

    • Miss Tia

      I bet they DO make use of this! He does have a couple houses doesn’t he? Or parsonages?

    • Verve

      Depending on how they define it in legalese, they can get pretty much everything exempted.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Catholic priests generally live in a rectory on Church property or in a room inside a Church. That is all tax-exempt. I’ve never heard of a priest having a swimming pool installed, but if it were open to the public, I wouldn’t mind that all. The kids could come for a hybrid swimming class / Bible study.

      • Verve

        Some churches have an attached school and/or public facility. Never heard of a pool, either, but a public rec center attached to the church wouldn’t surprise me.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Yes, I attended one of those schools with a Church on the property. Quite a few Catholic high schools have pools that are open to the public after 6pm or on weekends. I’m not as devout as I sound, I’d never force my child to attend a swimming/Bible class. I just think a waterproof Bible may sell.

          • EnthralledObserver

            I’m not positive about this, as I have never actually been into the house… but I think the minister’s new house (church property – new, less than 4 years old) has a pool… I’m going to ask a few questions now…
            If one is there I wonder how much of that was tax exempt? Hmmm…?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I dunno, my original comment was on Catholicism and how our priests live at or on the Church grounds. Protestants and other flavors of Christianity have different rules. But in the U.S., they could still get away with that if their home is considered a place of worship. Protecting the First a Amendment is a big deal, even when it’s blatantly wrong. See Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I failed to say, but the house is on the site of an upcoming new church. (Anglican church) There are old buildings on the new site (it was the old TAFE – {Techincal college} so thre are a series of old, yet useful builings) that are acting as the church whilst fundraising/financing is still being done for the new chapel, but there was no house, and as the church’s old site had a house upon it’s sale to finance the new site they minister and his wife (kids now left home) had no place to live, so they built a new one for them. I don’t really begrudge them the house… it’s not their own, it belongs to the church and would be assigned to the next minister should we get one… but I don’t know if the community ought to be subsidising such an extravagance as a pool. Mrs minister probably has a dishwasher – I don’t have one – let alone a pool… *grumble*

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              If they put in the pool with funds that were supposed to be going towards the church, yes that is fraudulent.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes, that would be… but I doubt that went on here. I was just wondering if (if they had gotten a pool) it was tax-exempt… which is not something I would agree with. I’ll barely let them have the dishwasher tax exempt, is all I was saying.

      • Graham

        The problem, it seems, is that there’s no cap on the amount that can be claimed. Thus it’s open to abuse: Quote from http://secular.org/issues/eliminate-taxpayer-funded-housing-clergy……………

        According to bankruptcy court filings in California: [7]

        Robert A. Schuller, the megachurch founder, received a $98,861 tax-free housing allowance annually.

        A son and daughter of Schuller received tax-free housing allowances that totaled $236,768 annually.

        Three of Schuller’s sons-in-law received tax-free housing allowances that totaled $306,093 annually.

        Fred Southard, chief financial officer of Crystal Cathedral Ministries and who owns a home in Newport Beach, California, worth $2.3 million, received a tax-free housing allowance of $132,000 annually, and his son-in-law, a part-time pastor at the megachurch, received a tax-free housing allowance of $58,747 annually.

        • MaxSpaceman

          That makes the Crystal Cathedral of Schuller’s a *criminal organization,* I don’t care what he said/says in his sermons.

          Nearly $1 million per year to house his relative and the CFO?!? Freaking criminals.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Well, in Catholicism a priest gives away all non-essential wealth and materials and cannot wed or be sexually active. This has led to well-documented disgraces in a small percentage. Protestants can seek material gain and can be openly sexually active. This has led to well-documented disgraces in a small percentage.

          But the U.S. Tax Code is broken regardless of religion. Political organizes that serve only to run ads during election years are deemed tax exempt as social welfare organizations. The National Football League is tax exempt. Seriously.

          • Graham

            “The National Football League is tax exempt.” If it’s anything like soccer in the UK the NFL may well be the most popular religion in America?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Exactly right. Tomorrow is NFL Sunday, America’s Sabbath Day.

    • DamOTclese2

      Organized religion is a fraud end to end, tax exemption needs to be eliminated for all religions — and for all more traditional criminal enterprises which abuse the tax exemption system.

  • LongNeckGoose

    Do I ever feel stupid! So when they said “I am not auditing you” I lost my expectation of confidentiality? I don’t feel that I was properly Mirandized (“everything you say will be used against you”).

    • Verve

      That kind of confused me. There’s no way that’s admissible as a confession, it total hearsay. Even A/V recorded, there is no context for the confession.
      (If I’m wrong, I’m sure our legal brethren will correct me.)

      • MaxSpaceman

        I don’t understand your comment but I like it anyway !

      • Robert Eckert

        There are some kinds of hearsay which are admissible as evidence, and statements made against your own interest are one of those exceptions.

        • Verve

          Thank you, fine sir. I knew I’d miss something.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I’m sorry…
    *sighs with satisfaction* Now I’m one up on any $cientologist…anywhere, about anything, ever…
    😉

    • Verve

      You always were. 🙂

      • EnthralledObserver

        Hee hee.. it wasn’t hard, was it? :p

    • Espiando

      You’re also much better at Shatter and Confront than they are. I have personal experience with that. And, yes, that’s one of the highest compliments I can give, which also puts me one up on any Scientologist, since praise seems to be at as much of a premium with them as forgiveness.

      • EnthralledObserver

        🙂 You’re a good-un, Espi…
        Thank you…

    • Robert Eckert
  • dwayners13 .

    I would imagine Slappy is not too happy these days (more than usually anyway), Rinder is flying over the skies of Clearwater in a helicopter, making it difficult for the audience to hear his words of wisdom & most likely cutting the speech short & now Bunker (aka Wise Beard Man) has moved to Clearwater. Oh yeah & there is still that whole lawsuit thing in Texas with Marty’s wife Mosey. I have a feeling 2014 is not going to be a great year for Slappy & his gang of “leftovers”.

    • joan nieman

      Great muse Dwayners, the circle is closing in on him and he will have nowhere to hide.

    • DamOTclese2

      We can be sure that Miscavige has ordered his ringleaders to launch an “Operation” against WBM already, something insane, something profoundly criminal.

  • aquaclara

    Thanks, Tony, for sharing Mark’s adventures of last night. This is gripping, and scary. Reading it, I’m hoping that Mark’s going to find something interesting, and at the same time I want to scream, LOOK OUT-THEY’RE COMING.

    Mark, please stay safe. And for everyone following these adventures, know that he was walking on a public sidewalk and public streets, in a picturesque American town. How is this reign of terror by the Scientologists allowed to continue? How many hidden spy cameras were shooting on public property? Why should anyone feel afraid just for walking around their town?

  • FromPolandWithLove

    Hello Everybody in The Bunker Team.:)
    I’m sitting glued to my desk and computer, because I’m struggling with presentation for my work. But I make breaks to check out what’s new here.

    Forgive me off topic but I would like recommend two links
    1 Very interesting article in Raw Story, definitely worth of reading, Dear Bunkeritos let’s boost statistics of RawStory!!!
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/22/texas-board-of-education-holds-up-biology-book-over-evolution-debate/
    ohhh and their comment section has Disqus :):):) maybe we can join?
    2. John P Capitalist’s blog – Article titled “Requesting your Thoughts on Independent Scientology” has some great and insightful comments.
    I know a lot of reading, but we are free people here and luckily nobody can tell us what we can’t read so let’s use this:)
    Have nice a Saturday,
    Greetings from Poland :):):)

  • Catp2

    It seems ludicrous to me when people hold Scientology to standards that practically nobody is practicing. Humans are mostly resentful unapologetic self serving unforgiving creatures. To argue otherwise ti to lob around lofty ideals but not have observed how humans generally act in practice. If you have not seen it in the in your own life there is plenty of juicy evidence in the newspapers and on the internet.

    AND so there is no misunderstanding, personally, I think Scientology is overdue to fall apart. Now it is just an organism holding on toit’s own survival and is ignoring that it has reached it’s cessation point a long time ago. All it will take is one very well known person to call it and it will discorporate overnight.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Discorporate overnight… if by that you mean “deprived of the privileges or form of a body corporate” – that 1 person leaving you allude to will not lead to any “overnight” dissolution of $cientology. You have a multi-billion dollar tax exempt corporate structure with thousands of slave-labor SeaOrg’ers. All in a “Prison of Belief.”

      Take a reality check, Catp2, for your 2nd post comment, okay?

      • Catp2

        Seemingly solid large things, that were expected to be around a long time to come, can fall unexpectedly fast and hard – think two large buildings in Manhattan.

        • MaxSpaceman

          You’re high on silly-cybin. You must be in college- you have zero awareness of business-in-the-real world, chum.

          It’s a much more difficult drive, to help The Cult fall, than to say, “Oh, Yes! – if the top celebrity superstar $cientologist leaves the Cult, it will disappear overnight!”

          You’re a science fiction writer, if not a college student. And if not a college student, you are a troll. With your 2 comments. You’re jerking off. Do that in private, chump.

          • Catp2

            ok master

            • MaxSpaceman

              Bright, very bright. Dim bulb.

            • Catp2

              yes master

            • EnthralledObserver

              *pats the sycophant*

            • Catp2

              I did no more and no less than anyone else does here, i just expressed a point of view. It is no big deal.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes, slave… 🙂

            • MaxSpaceman

              Your label of the Bunker’s journalist proprietor is not (whining) “I just expressed a point of view” (stops whining). It’s offensive, jerk-off from Ca2.

              “Your own little cultish leaders and celebrity critics will be out of a job.”

              Oh- let me beat you to it your clever response: “okay master. yes master.”

            • Catp2

              I regret writing that and edited it out. I apologise to the Bunker’s journalist proprietor for that bit of hostility.

            • MaxSpaceman

              You are 10 comments, 0 votes.
              That is all. Nobody else.

        • kemist

          But the opposite is also true, that is, things that seem fragile and nearly collapsing do sometimes regain power in unexpected ways. Like fires that spread underground. or infestations of insects. The CoS has been in this situation before. It came back in force. The thing that has brought it down this time is vocal critics spreading information.

          Now is not the time to stop.

          • Catp2

            Yeah that is also true.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Some day, when you’re past your “need-for-immediate-internet-attention” phase, you just might regret how casually you referenced the murder of thousands of human beings. Especially in such a weak trolling run. Think about it for a minute.

        • villagedianne

          Ideals, even bad ones, are harder to take down than buildings.

    • kemist

      I didn’t know that not having children as slaves and having a bit of compassion for your fellow human beings was a “lofty ideal”. I thought it was basic human decency. I guess I’m silly like that.

      As for the, ahem, “leaders” of anonymous (a truly idiotic expression typical of someone who has absolutely no understanding of what anonymous is), I’m sure they’ll find other causes worth their time once this despicable organisation finally dies, since, as you remarked, there are plenty of humans who behave like jackasses to other humans, and which would benefit from a good old light shining on their activities.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Jeb?

      • MaxSpaceman

        Too pitifully pathetically buffoonish and dense to be Jeb, SpF. Cap is on crack.

        • Catp2

          yes master

          • MaxSpaceman

            Boring. You have nothing to say.
            Wasted on crack you must be, a supplicant, you are.

            • Catp2

              yes master

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Jeb is one of us!!!

          He just happens to be a bit out of sync…….but he is definitely one of us.

          • Espiando

            Yeah. In our family, Jeb is the cousin with chronic flatulence that you always end up sitting next to at the holiday dinner table. Great conversationalist, but…well, he’s family.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Know that. I’ve bantered with Jeb often. Maybe you meant to put that comment under SugarPF.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yeah, I stick comments in the wrong place all the time.
              I am just lazy.
              Sorry about that.

    • NOLAGirl

      Oh, an insult wrapped in a statement, wrapped in a proclamation that everyone acts like an asshole.

      It’s like verbal sushi.

      • Espiando

        Decaying fish, stinky seaweed, pungent wasabi, and anisaki worm larvae…that’s a good description of that post.

      • OrangySky

        Verbal sushi!! ^^^^^^^!!!!

    • Espiando

      We’re holding them to the standards that they themselves have set up, and been found wanting. We’re also not expecting the world to change should the cult go down. No one here, except for you, is that naive.

      I had enough of the idiot troll last night. Do I have to do to you what I did to him? And if you respond, “yes master” to this, then…have I got the green light from everyone to give him the Espi Special? I know that you get a little upset when I do that, NOLA, so I just want to make sure everyone’s prepped.

      • NOLAGirl

        Espi, we may have had our differences, but I was hoping you’d respond to that post. Do your thing. ; )

        • Espiando

          Apparently CatPiss has given up. Bunker Confront and Shatter Tech has scored another win.

          • NOLAGirl

            Or is waiting for someone to tell his non-functioning brain what to say next. Who knows??

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        You’re at a red light. But just step on the gas and blow through that bitch

      • Captain Howdy

        Most likely is Troy whatever from last night.

        • Espiando

          McQueef had his fun last night, and he’s probably now bragging to the other members of his sixth grade class about what he did. This one, though, seems to be a little bit more coherent. He actually made an effort to use proper English.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Green light, Espi !

      • Rita Gregory

        Get ’em!

    • Verve

      Just wondering if you prefer to be labeled a muppet or a troll. I’m in a nice mood, so I’ll let you choose.

      Either way, you still have to answer to Tripod the Confusing. Though it shouldn’t be too bad for you, considering he spouts as much nonsense as $ci. And I think he’s taller than Little Boots.

      • Catp2

        Catp2 is just a pinhead with an opinion. So, either “muppet or a troll” are both ok.

        • Espiando

          Just stick with your own description.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWEEG33drV4

        • kemist

          I like trolls. Posting in a blog comment section that you find the subject of said blog is worthless with the implied statement that its readers should perhaps “get a life” is classic troll tactics. It’s hilarious because of the evident lack of self-awareness it takes to make such a statement.

          Trolling is a grand anon tradition, and it does bring the lulz. I am kind of addicted to the lulz.

          So carry on.

    • Gerard Plourde

      I’m sorry that you have such a low opinion of humanity. Perhaps if you stepped away from the keyboard, went outside and interacted with people face to face you’d be more accepting of their foibles and recognize that most people do not in fact correspond to your description.

      • Espiando

        I’d say that he just had his first read-through of Camus (something most of us get out of our systems during the first year of college), except that I have a feeling that his only exposure to Camus was listening to the Cure’s “Killing An Arab”.

        • Gerard Plourde

          You’re probably right, It’s been an age since I read “The Stranger” in high school. It’s kind of a shame since Camus is deeper than that. I read “The Plague” in the early ’80’s when I found out that the AIDS researchers at Montefiore Hospital were reading it as a way of coping with the unfathomable nature of the epidemic.

    • villagedianne

      Scientology is a paradigm of a religious/spiritual totalitarian dictatorship. It will always be worth studying on that basis alone.
      Most of us are bamboozled sometime or other by religion, politics, education, or just by other people. Most of us have given away our power or our critical thinking skills at some point in our lives. Watching and exposing Scientology has lessons for all of us on how easily that can happen, and under what circumstances.
      Those who are ignorant of history are bound to repeat it.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      You yawned. You must have an M/U.

    • koki

      what is fake church of $cientology?

      • Catp2

        “fake church of $cientology” are my own words. Nothing I have ever heard about $cientology sounds like a legitimate religion, if there is such a thing as a “legitimate religion”. I am saying “fake” because i do not perceive it to be a real actual church, and do not think it should enjoy the tax exemptions I hear it enjoys.

        Granted, I would also say, that the name of the game in society if one is making any money, is ‘cheat on your taxes’, get out of paying taxes, find ways to pay less taxes off shore accounts, tax shelters etc. The whole tax game and how everyone operates in it is questionable in my opinion.

        People who do not earn any money would not be involved in this racket. AND I do not advocate cheating on taxes. It is our system and till we come up with a new one, I advocate playing along with integrity.

        • koki

          so, you hate scientology?

          • Catp2

            I “hate” scientology? Where do you get that from what I wrote?

            I shared all the point of view I wanted to share. There is nothing to second guess. If I wanted to say I “hate” scientology i would say it. I do not “hate” nor not “hate” scientology. They are people like us doing what they think will make them happy. AND I happen to hold a point of view that $scientology is a grotesque failure in progress and a one that is overdue to tank and tank fast and hard.

            I also expressed that it seems ludicrous when people hold $cientology to standards that practically nobody is practicing. What I said is not that unreasonable and not that outrageous nor is it meant to be a sneaky defence of $cientology. I would never defend $cientology but of course anything short of overtly shitting on $cientology is viewed as a defence of scientology in a discussion in a place like this. There appears to be a *if you not with us you are against us” worldview here.

            *President George W. Bush, in an address to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001 said, “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.”

      • DamOTclese2

        There is no such thing as a “church of Scientology.” There is an organized crime syndicate named Scientology, but there is obviously no church with that name.

    • Eivol Ekdal
    • DamOTclese2

      That’s not true, though, my standards are far superior to the Scientology crime syndicate’s twisted, financially-driven “ethics” obviously, and in fact most of the world’s populace vastly exceeds the ethics and morality of the crime syndicate’s ringleaders.

      Maybe you need to actually live out in the real world for a while, get your head out of David’s rectum, see the world as it actually is. No offense.

  • Interested

    Whoever posted LRH lecture RJ67 was wanting to hypnotise us.-:) his voice is so hypnotic you stop listening to his blah blah . Post below just in case u missed it..
    http://youtu.be/0NKB3oFl2vw

    • MaxSpaceman

      1967. RJ 67 (Ron’s Journal) “This last Wall of Fire.” “The ultimate truth of this universe.”

      The *sanctimonious sack of shit,* Lafayette Ronald H., was “researching” his bullshit OT3 nonsense, for $cientology upper levels. And it was *so difficult* and *so dangerous* for the *lying liars that lie charlatan,* he said:

      “All of this recent career has been relatively hard on this poor body. I have broken it’s back, broken it’s knee, and now have a broken arm. Because of the strenuousness of these particular adventures.”

      • OrangySky

        And people bought it. They bought his bullshit.

      • EnthralledObserver

        When really the stupid bastard merely fell off his motorcycle…

        • MaxSpaceman

          Not at that time, EO- ’twas simply bald-faced lies. His accident was 1976, when his motor bike was taken off the ship Appolo, so he could take a ride, and he took a spill.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Heh… he had the power to look into the future… he WAS OT!!! :p

      • Verve

        UltraMax speakin’ showing some truth, right here.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Have you listened to the audio of Ron’s Journal 67.

        I highly recommend it! The guy had to be fucking high.

        • OrangySky

          I want to Bury (’cause you suggested it) – but I’m afraid I may need anti-nausea meds…

        • Cat Daddy

          No fucking depressed judging by his monotone voice

      • Just This Guy

        Don’t forget all the pills he was popping at the time!

    • Missionary Kid

      He sounds like Herbert W. Armstrong on “The World Tomorrow.”

    • DamOTclese2

      These Scientology customers don’t look very happy. Maybe they have never read “The Way To Happiness.”

    • Cat Daddy

      NO HE SOUNDS DEPRESSED, REAlly listen. monotone voice

      • Interested

        I don’t know if depressed, I’ve been hypnotised once to stop smoking… This piece I’d shit hasthe same voice intonations, saying crap….. So the mind turns off but the subconscious still . hears that’s the danger .

  • El Con Blubbard

    Scientology means “never having to say I am sorry” – so true! This runs deep in the minds of Scientologist’s and I have noticed even the one’s that are out – they never apologize! Anyone out there that realizes this “implant” from Scientology – it is okay to say you are sorry – it makes one human!

  • Observer

    ” … he said that for a “Bantu” (a South African black) it would be an ‘overt’ not to steal.” Of course he did, because that’s how L. Ron Hubbard rolled.

    That’s some “religion”.

    • Verve

      Clarification on “overt not to steal”- does that mean it’s bad if “Banuts” didn’t steal? Sorry, but sometimes it’s hard to figure out a madman’s made up language.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I believe he is indicating it ‘their nature’ to do so.

        He was such a fucking pig face.

  • Gerard Plourde

    “The moment he resigned, an old fellow who had confessed while a member was reported to the police, with the contents of a confession.”

    Since this totally violates the concept of Priest-Penitent privilege it appears the National Council of Churches should be made aware of this little fact. It may make them wonder if they should withdraw their amicus brief in the DeCrescenzo matter,

    • FromPolandWithLove

      Great POINT 🙂

    • Robert Eckert

      That’s moot now.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Has the issue been formally adjudicated? I hadn’t thought that it had.

        • Robert Eckert

          The amicus brief was for the certiorari petition before the Supreme Court, which was denied in early September.

  • OrangySky

    “I experienced harassment on a daily basis for over a dozen years, and
    it often involved invented rumors, “noisy investigation” and frankly
    criminal behavior.”

    Wow. A daily basis. So sorry for your suffering, Jon – I hope they have let up on you by now.

    • aquaclara

      Echoing Orangy’s comments….hope it has ended by now. I’m afraid to hear the truth.

      Jon, love seeing you here. What a huge treasure for us. Thank you.

    • Espiando

      I hope it has too, but this is Jon Atack we’re talking about. Not only has he got a new edition of Blue Sky out, remember, he’s also the one who signed the declare of Miscavige in the mid-80s. And as we all know from the PIs case and Pat Broeker, DM does not forgive or forget those kinds of slights.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Recap: that was 1/4 Century, 25 years of private investigators following Pat Broeker on Davey Miscavage’s orders.

  • Sunny Sands

    Tent Watchers’ Update The tent doesn’t have any graphics or signs on it as of today. People are using the front entrance of Super Power. Winter Wonderland construction is progressing.

    • FromPolandWithLove

      Thanks Sunny :):):). What is Winter Wonderland construction?

      • Sunny Sands

        It’s the scientology Christmas display, sans baby Jesus. They do it every year, and invite people to walk through while they give them sci literature.

        • FromPolandWithLove

          Thanks. Scientology Christmas display, sans baby Jesus it is like botanic garden without plants. How shitty!

          • NOLAGirl

            I’m surprised there isn’t a “baby Ron” or “baby Dave” in there. LOL Would fit right in with their thinking.

            • FromPolandWithLove

              Maybe they could drag Shelly out of her exile and put her in the role of Virgin Mary. But from the other side I have suspicions that TC would love to play that role;p

            • villagedianne

              I’d love to see that. But TC would never be as good as the actor who played the mother in “Life of Brian”.
              “He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a Very Naughty Boy!”

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I can’t see TC as the virgin mary………he looks a bit too slutty for that.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I think the character she’s referring to is Brian’s mother Mandy played in the movie by Terry Jones.

            • villagedianne

              Yep!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yikes………..see what happens when I skim and don’t read properly!

            • Gerard Plourde

              It’s ok. Trying to get through the volume of comments can be daunting.

            • Snitqueen

              Rag on TC all you like, (and I encourage you to do so) but to make fun of him by dressing him up as a woman strikes me as using ‘being a woman’ as a punchline.

            • indie8million

              Maybe this is what TC looks like when DM dresses him up for “play time.” Don’t sue me. 😀

            • Espiando

              “Baby Dave”, presumably, would be a life-size model.

            • joan nieman

              Lol!

        • Aslansown

          Can’t wait to hear about Mark Bunker’s walk through of Winter Wonderland!

          • Sunny Sands

            They don’t let protesters in. But the protesters have stood on the sidewalk in the past and hold up signs informing the public that it is scientology. Some inventive protesters last year had a bag and a sign “Put unwanted literature here”, and got a good haul of stuff.

            • Aslansown

              That was inventive! Can’t wait to see vids of any protests this year.

            • Sunny Sands

              Darth Xander from WWP will probably make one.

        • El Con Blubbard

          Bennetta Slaughter – the one who “helped” Lisa McPherson…I believe set it up.

          It is a front group just like every “humanitarian” campaign in Scientology..set up the baby Jesus and then when Christians come in to see it – give them promo and lie to them…tell them you can be a Christian and still do Scientology.

          If they get anyone in that is a Christian…they will audit out their faith and beliefs and give all their money and shatter their relationships for XENU and the body thetan theory, which is a theory by a madman…all scientificially not proven and is a made up sci-fi story by L Ron Hubbard…

          The ole BAIT AND SWITCH of Scientology. Pretending to have “reality” with others…so they can obtain trust and then fleece them dry~!

      • koki

        there is some clips on youtube…

    • MaxSpaceman

      I’m betting a new graphic will go up. I A S – that’s the next biggie event for The Cult of $cientology members in the tent.

      • Sunny Sands

        I think you’re right. When they were asked by the city council if they were going to put another wrap on the tent, they said nothing.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          It really looks crappy without the white wrap.

          • Ruby

            It really looks crappy with the white wrap.

            • ze moo

              ‘Mark’ called it a chicken shed above, he was being charitable.

          • Observer

            And since it looked crappy with the wrap, that’s saying something.

      • ze moo

        The city was adamant that any other ‘graphic’ would draw a fine. It will be fun to see what the clampire does.

        • Sunny Sands

          The fine is $500 per day. I think they’ll leave it up 4 days or so and pay the $2,000.

        • MaxSpaceman

          They will put up the tent covering, with letters I A S as big as the KSW lettering.

          Then they will pay the fine even it is $5,000 per day. They don’t care. They will have it the way Davey wants it.

    • Mark

      Not exactly queueing up to get into FLAG, are they? The tent’s reverted from resembling an overstuffed strumpet’s mattress to a huge chicken-shed, especially with those giant rubbish-skips and the leftover scrap of tent-cosy. To reflect the true ethos of Co$ they ought to rename their tatty ‘Winter Wonderland’ as ‘Santa’s Bah-Hubbard-Humbug Grotty Grotto’:

    • Funnybroad

      Oh, they fixed it.

    • Gerard Plourde

      They’re featuring a weather house in the Christmas display?

      • Graham

        So THAT’S where Shelly is!

    • antibity

      the now naked tent resembles “the superhighway to total nowhere”. I love the “Do Not Enter” warning sign.

    • indie8million

      I don’t know about you guys, but I find it quite ironic that there is a “Do Not Enter” sign right in front of the tent. Bwahahahahaha!

  • MaxSpaceman

    I love Jon Atack’s weekly interview. Thank you, Jon.

    The Cult of $cientology Inc. The member’s statements in Security checks (sec checks) and auditing. How used.

    “As with any other intelligence gathering activity, the information can be used against the penitent. For most defectors, the knowledge that their indiscretions have been recorded is enough to keep them silent. Former members have often told me that they will never speak out publicly, because they don’t want their children to find out about their sexual improprieties or juvenile drug use.”

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Poor Antonio.
    Now that Mark Bunker is back in CW, those security guys are going to be sec checked up the ying yang constantly.
    I feel sorry for them.

    Oh, wait…I think I am over it.

    • kemist

      You felt sorry ?

      Are you sure it wasn’t bad coleslaw or something ?

      • Verve

        Nah, BTN is a loving person, and understands that not everyone is $ci is a dillweed.

  • Walter Mitty

    Another wog lie from Tony Ortega. Scientology do in fact LOVE apologies. We have here an exclusive report from the Freedom Magazine. See for yourself: (picture – refresh)

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      The apology read:

      “Sorry, but we think you’re an asshole and we’d like you to leave.”

      Apologies always start with sorry.

      • Verve

        And Jimmy3 wins the internet for today!

  • InterestedinCrazy

    Lots of strange things going on in that London slavery case that was linked here. Latest:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511842/Police-investigating-30-year-slave-women-case-reveal-victims-met-suspect-shared-ideology-lived-collective.html

    – the two older women were lured into the situation in a ‘collective’ which is sounding more like a cult with which they had a ‘shared ideology’…one 30yr old woman had a birth cert but had never lived outside the collective

    – they were said to be in ‘invisible handcuffs’

    Police would not reveal the nationality of the suspects but said they have been in the country for many years.

    They are checking whether the pair have ever been members of any well-known religious cults.

    Sources suggested that a more likely scenario is that they ran their own mini-cult.

    It’s stranger it’s getting

    • Once_Born

      It’s Scientology in microcosm…

    • Graham

      Sadly most of the comments on that site are very unsympathetic and lacking in any kind of understanding of what it’s like to be the victim of a mind-f*ck..

      “Why did they call a charity and not the police?” Jeez- do you really have to ask!

      • InterestedinCrazy

        Yes, I was going to mention the use of the term ‘invisible handcuffs’ might cause some people to open their view of these types of situations and possibly help people to be more understanding with ex-sci.

  • Just This Guy

    Mark, that would have been the Cornerstone Ball in the tent I expect, pictures are showing up all over facebook

  • InterestedinCrazy

    I hate to throw a ‘cat amongst the pigeons’ (funny!) but I have a question re forgiveness…

    I have heard Mike Rinder say that Marty Rathbun asked for his forgiveness for the physical violence Marty perpetrated against him and they’ve come to terms with it with each other etc, but just wondering amongst the many ex’s out there….

    Have you made peace with other ex’s who harmed you while you were active? For example, from what I gather, there were some vicious bastards (of both genders) in high ranking positions in the cult…a lot of them are out now. When ex’s come across each other once out, in social settings, (SP parties, rallies, protests) is there an apology extended? Is it warmly and graciously accepted?

    I dunno, just wondered?

    • Ruby

      For me personally, when I have talked with other exes, yes…we both end up shaking our heads at the insanity we were involved in and say… “I’m so sorry for anything I did to you at that time”. Sometimes we remember a specific incident, and sometimes it is just a general apology. Both work.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        That is good to hear and I am sure it is cathartic for you to be able to do so.
        There is nothing quite like a sincere apology to someone you have harmed to lighten the load we all carry.

        • Ruby

          It is good! Fortunately I was never involved in the violence that I have heard about. But just those times of doing something you know is not right, but you do it “for the good of the group’…ick. It’s refreshing to tell someone you are sorry and then you both laugh at the insanity.

      • Gerard Plourde

        I can imagine that the realization of how insane your situation was also triggers a bunch of “I can’t believe I fell for that horse hockey (nod to Col. Potter).” Congratulations on your escape and best wishes for your continued healing.

        • Ruby

          yes…so many moments of “geesh!”

      • InterestedinCrazy

        It’s very alternate universe stuff to a never-in like me. Someone slaps you across the face and you end up leaving that employer, most people would not want to make up. Fair play to you.

        • Ruby

          Yep, it is an alternate universe. As I told Bury, I was fortunately not involved in any violence…just crappy behavior things at times, like taking away a junior’s day off, or things like that…all for the good of the group of course.

          • InterestedinCrazy

            I would say it’s all part of the healing process. Again, well done on your recovery!

      • Just This Guy

        Personally, I’m looking forward to being able to talk things out and catchup with a few people, including some posters here using real names(TM).

        I recognize that we were all under the same “spell” and hold them no more responsible for the things I agreed to then I would a wild dog that caused me to make a detour.

        • Ruby

          It really is quite liberating and fun to have those catch up conversations!

    • villagedianne

      The problem with Scientology and Landmark Forum and other philosophies where “there are no victims”, it that in such a philosophy, there are also no perpetrators. So it becomes matter of only blaming the victim.
      I’m all for taking responsibility for one’s own actions. But this way of thinking has it’s limits and it’s pitfalls, and blaming only the victim is one of them.

      • Gerard Plourde

        “in such a philosophy, there are also no perpetrators.”

        Excellent point. It gives bullies carte blanche.

      • kemist

        I really, really despise that ideology.

        I think there is a unhealthy devotion to personal responsibility in our society that oversimplifies our relation with the world by pretending humans hold a much higher level of control over their circumstances than what is actually the case. It discourages the compassion and empathy that normally promote effective team work and transforms all humans in little individualistic islands with delusions of empowerment.

      • Anonymous

        villagedianne wrote:

        “The problem with Scientology and Landmark Forum and other philosophies where “there are no victims”, is that in such a philosophy, there are also no perpetrators. So it becomes matter of only blaming the victim.”

        This is a great observation. Obliging adherents to “take responsibility” for everything that happens to them seems harmless enough, unless that idea is then used as justification for abusive conduct levied against those same adherents.

        (You probably know this, but Landmark Forum is a reincarnation of EST, which was an amalgamation of several teachings, including secularized versions of Scientology principles, minus the formal practice of auditing. Landmark Forum is a for-profit organization. It does not even pretend to be a religion.)

  • villagedianne

    “This becomes troublesome when we find that one of the axioms or “self-evident truths” that govern Scientology is this: ‘goodness and badness, beautifulness and ugliness are alike considerations and have no other basis than opinion’ “.
    Except when you go against Scientology!
    They always like to have it both ways.

    • DamOTclese2

      The Contras are “the moral equivalent of our founding fathers.” — Christian Republican terrorist Ronald Reagan.

      The fact is that what constitutes what is good and what is bad is a matter of opinion. It is why Christianity and Islam are terrorist death cults.

  • InterestedinCrazy

    I’m currently in day treatment for a mental illness once a week. I was briefly an inpatient in the same facility. Funny, in the smoking room, one person mentioned the recent news re Jada/Will Smith being scientologists. One person asked the other, what is it they actually believe?…..

    The answer amused me…”I dunno…there aren’t any in Dublin. They believe in Science and it’s for rich people with more money than sense. You know them Hollywood types”

    Bang on the money.

    • MaxSpaceman

      You know, Inter IC, the de-stigmatizing label that is used in the field of behavioral health now, today, is – mental health disorder. Because over the course of time, the label you used has become way pejorative. Everyone in mental health recovery with whom I work is now using “mental health disorder.”

      Just a suggestioin. 🙂 And like substance use disorder, Recovery is 1 day at a time.

      • InterestedinCrazy

        Good point, I suppose, Not just semantics. You’re lucky I didn’t call it crazy camp or the looney bin which is what many patients* call it (they’re all very jovial and joking about it)…. Ireland is very very behind the States in the PCness of labels etc…I do see your point however, I would at the moment consider myself ‘ill’ and my behaviour disordered. I was using mental illness vs physical illness….the REALLY PC term is mental health ISSUES or CHALLENGES…

        I dunno…for me? I was sick/ill/needed treatment. It’s not a substance use disorder for me, but I get your point there, too.

        ——
        *Edited to add, we don’t call each other clients ,we call each other patients. 🙂

        • MaxSpaceman

          Okay- because in the States, it’s not about PC anymore. In the field itself. The overall term our health care systems are using is: “behavioral health disorders”

          There are 2 – mental health disorder. And substance use disorder. Because functional behavior is disrupted.

          But, I do know – when it’s bad, and one is hospitalized, one feels “ill” not “disordered.” But, ’tis to *destigmatize* the mentally ill people in the eyes of police and society. And that is a hard task, tall order.

          So- that’s why we use it, in the field and never use “illness” anymore. If we can help it. Because it’s an uphill battle. Fighting the stigma.

          • InterestedinCrazy

            ok, cool..the stigma isn’t an issue with me. I think it’s an illness one can heal from with the proper treatment. I agree labels matter, too.

          • Aslansown

            I used to work in a mental health organization (not professionals, but people who have a diagnosis and their families). Within the last few years in my organization (and in fact in our state) the term “mentally ill” is no longer used. They now use person-first language, i.e., “An individual with a mental illness (or mental health disorder). I like it because it’s the difference between “being” and “having” — being mentally illl (or schizophrenic, or whatever) or having a mental illness (or schizophrenia, etc.). (I too hate the term “mental illness”!)

            Thank you for your anti-stigma attitude and efforts! (I do police trainings on how to interact with people experiencing a mental health crisis and boy, you are right! It is a tall order!)

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              Ideally, it applies to all fields. “Patient with diabetes” rather that “a diabetic.”

            • Aslansown

              Exactly.

        • ze moo

          New York uses the term ‘consumers’.

          • InterestedinCrazy

            10k Euros a month! I suppose i was a consumer! 🙂

          • Aslansown

            Recently, at least in my state and in the national organization I used to work in, consumer isn’t used any more. It’s now “individual with a mental health disorder” or “individual with a diagnosis”. I prefer these terms, although they’re not as easy to use as a one word description.

        • GlibWog

          You know Interested.. As a professional Max has a point.. a very valid point..and We professionals are always looking at ways to de-stigmatize.

          I worked from 1980- 2010 in Mental Health.. and would always get the PC Buzz word.

          So went through the whole.. ” Mentally Challanged, Mentally Handicapped, Disabled.. Special.. You name it the fashionable PC Buzz word was out.

          When I went through my sever panic attacks, social anxiety to the point of being Housebound and couldn’t drive.. ( 2000)

          I referred to myself as ill also. I was sick. I needed treatment. Instead of a broken leg, I had a broken Head. I had a chemical imbalance and thank God Paxil kicked in.

          So whether I was Mentally Challenged or Disabled.. I didn’t give a shit what ya called it.. I was Cra Cra.. ( Looking back at those days.. Good Golly Miss Molly)

          I should have been hospitalized for stabilization .. sigh.. ( Thank you for being so honest with us.. We care bout cha.. ) love Baby

          • InterestedinCrazy

            Thanks ,Baby
            I think the way to break the stigma is probably have people come out and say it and not get too stressed with labels etc…

            Patients inside have their own ‘are you one of us?’ kinds of secret language. 🙂 We don’t tell the “Health Care Professionals” those secrets! 🙂

            • GlibWog

              I agree interested..

              In our family we remember it as the Period Mom Went Nuts.. Just way out in left field.

              and yep.. ” One of us..” I love it..

              EVERYONE HAS A BREAKING POINT.. EVERYONE. xo

            • Robert Eckert

              Gooble gabble! Gooble gabble! One of us! One of us!

            • GlibWog

              hahhaha.. Yep.. we are all just ” One of us.” Shades of gray.

            • GlibWog

              OMG.. I just got this.. Duh.. One of my favorite classics.. Freaks.. Wow..

              I had a brain fart.. duh..

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          I don’t think I’ll ever be on board with “client.” But I’m an MD, not an occupational therapist or social worker. I’m comfortable with being my own shrink’s ‘patient.’

          • InterestedinCrazy

            I think it probably matters to the med prof’s more than patients in a psychiatric institution. We just want to get better 🙂

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Do you work in the mental health field, Max?

        • MaxSpaceman

          Indeed, yes J3T.

      • GlibWog

        I don’t know why Max got downvotes.. It is a Tough field to work in.. Trust me.. He works his ass off for the betterment of the community..

        I worked in Support groups and OMG it was very important to all that the de-stigmatizing message be brought to the community.

        He was just discussing his thoughts. Depending where you live.. The professionals are required to refer to those requiring services as

        Clients, Consumers, Patients.. etc.

        • InterestedinCrazy

          Good point re how hard they work. they are amazing professionals.

          I’m just I suppose unapologetic at the moment. To be frank, after coming to terms with what my issues are…the more I think of it…more than half the staff in my workplace could do with a few weeks (and for some years!)

          • GlibWog

            You know Interested..

            We in the ” Business ” refer to it as Shades of Gray..

            Just all of us walking around with various shades of Gray Mental Health.. I have never meant a Normal Person. What is Normal? What Society sitting on a pedestal define it? MEH..

            So those in Mental Hospitals.. ( I know that’s not the PC word..haaa ) are just different shades of gray.. until medication kicks in.

            They have made remarkable strides with current medication. I know I would not be alive had my family not had the guts to tell me that I needed help.

            and yes.. those workers.. AAAAhhhh yes.. Shades of Gray.

            You just keep on keepin on .. One day all the colors will come back into your life.

            Love Baby

            • InterestedinCrazy

              nice way of putting it, colours coming back into your life. it’s very slow process and as i unearth more painful memories, the process slows down or reverses…uphill uphill 🙂

            • GlibWog

              When my identical twin died.. I went into a very, very dark place in my life Interested.

              All the oxygen left my world and my heartbeat was gone. I isolated myself for 4 years and withdrew from life. Sobbing around the clock because my coping mechanism had always been Avoidance.

              Had she died in a hospital I would have just avoided driving by the place that had caused me such pain.

              But.. How do I avoid the object that caused me the most pain? Me.. Myself.

              My face ( identical twin) my hands, my laughter, my voice.. all of my mannerisms belonged to her. I could pack away her pictures… but I couldn’t pack away myself.

              What you are experiencing is a rebirth. Painful… as more memories surface the harder your work will become. Just work through it. Not around it.

              Take your time and discover the person deep inside your core. Just peel off the layers like an onion. Feel the pain. The pain is telling you that you are Alive and have feelings.

              Always know that you can come right here..to this spot and talk to me. I will not leave you.

              I created this for Derek.. for all of us who have had to struggle with ” Life.” and know that you are not alone. You have friends here that care about you. I know that I do.

              Please feel free to copy my work of art.. Put on a Screen Saver.. What ever you choose to do with it. One day you will pass it on.. Pay it forward to someone that needs a shoulder to cry on or just a word of encouragement. Love Baby

            • InterestedinCrazy

              Very inspiring. Thank you for sharing with me. 🙂
              I will save onto FB for motivation!

            • GlibWog

              Good! I am glad that you liked it.

    • aquaclara

      This shows just how far Tony’s reporting reached…love hearing tidbits like this one. Hope you’re feeling better, too. Sounds like a very credible treatment facility with trained professional staff, too. I get so jaded after the slew of Narconon and Lisa McPherson deaths.

      Good luck to you.

      • InterestedinCrazy

        Thanks, aquaclara. Yes, it was quite amusing as the girl who made the observation has been on an inpatient programme for a year or more? She hasn’t gotten much other than internet and bits of mainstream tv media.

        I am not in a ‘treatment facility’ as such…it’s a private psychiatric hospital. There are some programmes for addiction treatment but I’m not in one of those. I agree with you, though, it is a good thing to be amongst professionals and proper therapists instead of Narconon’s former patients!

      • InterestedinCrazy

        I DID answer this but now it’s not showing up on Discus! ??
        Anyway, thanks for the well-wishes! x

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Nov. 22: *refresh for image*

    The numbers for Nov. 22 were updated after I went to bed, so this update was for yesterday.

    Tony: US rank #12,813 – down 114 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #39,656 – up 836 from yesterday.
    Difference: 26,843 – 950 less than yesterday.

    Scientology above 40k for first time since Nov. 5.

    • KJP in Portland

      Heyyy…we’re over the 40k mark again.

      Right on, Bunker!

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Well, just to clarify: the lower the number, the better.

        Just in case it needed clearing up 🙂

        • koki

          it is problem with people who think they know all,and google is in front of them…

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            I am not saying that, I just want to clarify for any people who have not seen the Alexa updates before.

            • GlibWog

              Oh Johnny You So Fine..
              You so Fine You Blow My Mind

              Hey Johnny!

              Yes Koki I know it is Jimmy.. before you jump in.. ugh

          • Please don’t make this thread all about your problems, koki.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Police car flashing lights, how “religion” now promotes itself to the public!

    Thankyou very much Jon Atack and Mark Bunker for both your years (decades for Jon) of sharing your views publicly about Scientology!

    There’s no “new religion” even comparable to Scientology’s absurd irreligious hoopla!

    Only from a mediocre pulp writer who was obsessed with smashing his name into history, could all this come into being!

    I contend that Hubbard’s “pile” of crap writings, are the long term problem that Hubbard has left this world! The pile of writings and ideas are what ensnare and drag people along with this cult, for the time they are stuck in it.

    The angle of the pluspoints, of what it is in Hubbard’s writings, that contribute to the holding together of this huge fantasy new religion, hasn’t been really shown for the powers those ideas have on why this all keeps on carrying on. (Jon’s mention of the cycle of action, that’s one of those Hubbard mainline concepts; start, change, stop, Hubbard put a huge amount of wordage and rules behind keeping this whole show on the road behind the scenes, despite all the glaring absurd downsides to Scientology).

    • tone 3.3

      The sheer volume of Hubbard’s output is a tricky problem. It took most of a lifetime to write. Among other things, it puts critics in a difficult position of having to assess something they will never finish reading.

      Personally I think most of the content is not all that attractive, and I would argue that actually reading any of it is going to be a red flag for most people. However the trappings are very attractive, like the personality test, the super bowl ad, the billboards, et cetera. Do other religions even have marketing people?

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        One way the movement focuses on this or that, out of the whole Hubbard pile, is through their course checksheets.

        The checksheets contaiin the drills, essays, clay demos, and through those actions (drills, essays, demos) the focus is shifted to the “important” points.

        The in house apprenticing of staff, on which of their duties to focus on, I was involved in my career in the Sea Org both in training staffs, and in writing staff duties (the computerized routing forms, 90 in house business forms laying out exact staff duties).

        This whole behind the scenes world of how the compilers of the movement’s course checksheets focused on the continuing most important concepts from Hubbard, that keep the whole movement going, meaning how staffs of the official church hierarchy do the things they focus on, when servicing the public parishioners, is how the tone of the movement is the way it continues to be.

        Other administrative actions, how staffs behave, daily, weekly, due to the various internal focused upon rules (out of the full staff rules system) and the fad “now” behavior of Miscavige’s moods, as his moods trickle down to the echelon one is observing, are the cutting edge of official Scientology.

        I think there is a couple of more boring important layers to lay out.

        This blog is just unbelievable thorough, in the depth Tony Ortega has gone in delving unbelievably deeply, daily, weekly, into Scientology!

        The whole history of portals looking into this Hubbard ship of organized fools, this blog is like nothing ever in Scientology’s history, so a huge thanks to all who help Tony’s project here!

        • tone 3.3

          Chuck, my experience is that (as I think you are suggesting) people do the absolute minimum to get through the courses. They are forced to buy the books, and may skim one or two, but few actually read them.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            So many sub issues, yes, I think if the numbers were fully laid out, the overwhelming majority involvement by people with Scientology is very superficial and short.

            Long term members who “hold the fort” and “hold the form of the org”, those who are staff and “getting the show on the road”, those who stay long term, there’s a Hubbard “times over equals certainty” repeating the various fad focuses that Scientology management push on the movement staffs and members, over the decades, that the long term people who keep the movement going, is more what I was pointing to as the area that needs grasping, to see which way this whole movement is moving, is all.

            I was involved in that longer term “team” on the inside, I was most importantly part of the internal staff training for the fake churches, all echelons, and thus in my 27 years in the Sea Org saw the continued focus on which mainline ideas, like the “start, change, stop” one that Jon brought up, and Jon’s comments made me think of the bigger mainline concepts of Hubbard’s, which will outlast and be repackaged and refocused on up the road, in the decades to come, by whomever is left holding the Hubbard bag!

            • tone 3.3

              I agree. The point I’m trying to make is that the thing that keeps scientology alive isn’t so much what’s in the books as what is built around them.

              For instance if I gave any Scientologist, even high level people, a pop quiz on “Scientology 8-80,” they would all flunk.

              So it seems to me that the real issue is more about the extremely agressive marketing and recruiting which has developed around the books.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yea, but I don’t know.

              The “basics” books and lectures are all studyable using a variety of checksheets, with each of those checksheets putting focus on those books’ fundamental concepts, same with the “basics” lectures (1950s era lectures, which is Hubbard’s research fundamentals for the Scientology subject).

              Did you have to suffer doing the “basics” checksheets at all, recently?

              Analysis of the “basics” checksheets, and then these GAT II current checksheets guiding the auditor training, I think comparing these recent years’ checksheets to former years’ checksheets, will actually show “improvement” of the relay of more of Hubbard’s full range of ideas, than all past checksheets prior to 2007, if one wanted to be totally nit picky.

            • ze moo

              Pyramid marketing schemes and Ponzi schemes have always used the same methods and subterfuges that Lroon employed. Using well programed ronbots to deliver said schemes was Loons only ‘adjustment’ to the con. Now many others use the same methods, google Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, he was similar.

              Hello, I am the prince of Nigeria and I need your help in getting my money out the country. Please send me 50 thousand dollars and I’ll pay you 100 thousand when I get to America,……

              A sucker is born every minute.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yea, I concluded Hubbard’s smothering in house staff writings just kept the staff teams nose to the grindstone, just unwittingly keeping the big con rolling. The world is full of suckers seeking out of the body soul flying abilities and supposedly doing something to regain their whole array of lost ESP abilities as the pure souls they get indoctrinated to believe they really are! (With one of the final cons being that the Cause Resurgence Rundown is a human form of the OT running program—and Ron’s out there doing the OT Running Program as we speak–they get led to believe.)

              Come fly with me, on the OT running program, Ron says!

      • Robert Eckert

        The Mormons have marketing people.

  • Mark

    “But Scientology is still a tiny phenomena in Israel.” I think you mean the singular, phenomenon Tony? But I’m sure grammar-nazis everywhere will forgive you such a minor slip what with editing Raw Story as well as running the best anti-Co$ website on the Net. Now, everybody sing with me: “Phenomenon, ma-na, ma-na-na…”

    • FromPolandWithLove

      I,m making notes:)

    • Verve

      I’m guessing you’re bored today? When you start writing 1,000+ word articles daily, get back to us. Especially since you have three grammar mistakes in your four sentence post.

      • Mark

        I’m writing more than a thousand words daily elsewhere. What “grammar mistakes”? (And it should be “grammatical mistakes” anyway).

        • Verve

          You’re cute. 3-1 mistakes so far. I win. And by the way, writing in your Paris Hilton blog is not really “quality journalism.”

          • Mark

            What mistakes? Evidence, please – either put up or shut up.
            And by the way, it’s not a “Paris Hilton blog” but a book: you know, one of those oblong papery things with printing in it. I can safely leave the quality journalism to Tony.

            • Verve

              I concede. I’m no journalist, and this all started from a stupid, snarky comment I made. Mea culpa, You may now refer to me as “That Idiot Monkey.” I have no idea who you are, but if you did write a book and are posting here, I’m an even bigger idiot.

              Sorry, man, I was trying to be an “internet warrior.” I apologize, sometimes my mouth writes bigger checks than I can cash, or whatever the phrase I just mangled is.

              Have a nice day.

            • Mark

              Thanks, and no harm done, Verve – it’s very kind of you to apologise. I’m hoping my day will be nicer, too – once I’ve got through a mountain of ironing… 😉

            • Verve

              Cool. I don’t like making enemies by me running my mouth with stupid statements off-the-cuff.

              I feel for ya on the ironing thing (I can’t do it for squat), though I’m in the middle of moving, and we have a 2nd 16′ U-Haul truck to load today. I’m taking Aleve now in anticipation of future pain, lol.

            • Mark

              I think I’d lose my cool if confronted with a second huge load to stow! Don’t strain anything. (When I say “ironing”, it’s more a case of can I get away with just folding this…)

            • Verve

              “can I get away with just folding this…”

              Woot, lol!

              And we’re going to have to do at least a 3rd load- we’ve been here for 34 years. Good thing I have a Monkey Horde (though all they really do is point in various directions like they’re supervising… wait, why am I paying them?!?!?!)

              Dang it…

              http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AomHWJvRvC0/SqvXKfWG1nI/AAAAAAAAAC8/Mp_rtrz3Lpw/s320/funny-monkey-1.jpg

            • GlibWog

              hahahhahahahha

            • GlibWog

              Oh Monkey.. Make nice.. Jeeze..

              We know you well enough around here to know you were being snarky..

              So put the poop down and quit throwing it.. ( I had to say that..I’m sorry it was just too easy)
              You are moving today..

              YOU GET A PASS! XO BABY

            • Verve

              Hi Glibby! I guess you haven’t refreshed recently, Mark & I are now talking about folding laundry and moving trucks, i.e. I apologized for being a dork. And I a new monkey picture laughing at me…

            • GlibWog

              Ohhhh Fabulous.. I love happy ending.. smooches.. I will refresh.. ( I hate moving..HATE)

              ( I’m baby now because of another Glibby..xo)

        • joan nieman

          Ha ha Mark!! You got he last word there.

      • chukicita

        aw, he knows that word because it’s the title of a Travolta movie.

        • Captain Howdy

          Mark wasn’t criticizing Tony. Save the pack bloodlust for more deserving targets.

          • Mark

            Thanks, Cap!

            • Captain Howdy

              It was obvious, and no thanks necessary.

    • tone 3.3

      “Phenomena” should probably be “strickened.”

      • Mark

        Chortle! 🙂

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Hey, Tony’s got two full-time gigs and works on weekends. Cut him some slack 😉 !

  • Graham

    “As I drove past that front gate there was now a second police car parked with its lights flashing.”

    After all the years $camatology’s been ‘crying wolf’ you’d think the police would have learned not to bother by now. But still $camatology snaps its fingers and still the police come running it would seem.

    • NOLAGirl

      I am not at all aware of Florida laws, but here if you call the cops, by law, they have to come. So sadly, as annoying as it probably gets for some of these cops, they probably really are just doing what they have to do. Something the Co$ knows & takes full advantage of. It’s just too bad they don’t haul their asses into court for false 911 calls, etc.

      • chukicita

        It would be interesting to see how many calls some from Scn-owned properties.

        • NOLAGirl

          Yes it would. I’m not sure if 911 calls or calls to the desk at the station are public record. But I agree completely, would be very interesting to see those stats.

      • ThetaBara

        They should. It’s a waste of public funds, and the cops could be dealing with an actual crime instead.

      • joan nieman

        But…they don’t even pay taxes that pays for public services! WTF? How can they utilize the police services?…..obviously, they have paid privately for these services.

      • DamOTclese2

        That is not the way it works in California, police officers do not have to respond here. We had “negro riots” in California where law enforcement officers refused to wade in and people were murdered for it, property was destroyed. The lawsuits afterwards found that cops have a duty to respond however there is no legal requirement saying that they must respond.

        Clearwater police know the score, that’s why they send the rookies to respond to the crime syndicate’s fraudulent claims and telephone calls.

        • NOLAGirl

          If we had a dollar for every eye-roll and “It’s Flag again” coming from a CW cop…we could throw a hell of a Bunker party. 😀

    • Verve

      The thing is in Clearwater something like 2/3rds of the cops work for $ci after-hours. (It was an article by Bunker, maybe? Something about lines on the sidewalk/street between buildings?) Look at the sheriff in Oklahoma that is doing his best to sweep Arrowhead under the rug, or the LA cops who keep posing for pics with $ci members. Whether it’s extortion or straight up payments, $ci is very good at greasing important palms.

      • joan nieman

        For sure Verve. It looks very bad!

    • Sunny Sands

      You can see the Clearwater calls for service (911) on this site.
      http://arcgis.myclearwater.com/police/callsforservice/

      The area of the tents is 286B. Last night, Nov. 22, there was 1 call on Osceola in area 286B, which is the west side of Davy’s Park, not really near the tents or Super Power. So it leads me to believe the police called were those on private duty for sci.

      Every time I drive on Ft. Harrison in front of Super Power, there is always a police vehicle and officer parked there, even today on Saturday.

      • noseinabk

        22 calls in Nov. for suspicious vehicle, person or event. 2 of those calls already today. Is this what they use to justify having police stationed out front? I do not understand how they get away with this

        • Sunny Sands

          It’s just a guess, but they can get away with having police stationed there all the time because they are paying the city for them. It’s about $50 or so an hour plus more for the vehicle. Anyone can request private duty officers.

          • noseinabk

            Thanks Sunny. I was confused as I did not know that private duty cops could use police vehicles.

      • GlibWog

        Sunny.. I am trying to picture my sweet pastor of the Lutheran Church when I was little..

        911.. ” Yes I need the Police..”

        “What is your emergency Sir..” ” There is a suspicious looking guy staring at the Lutheran Church on Main Street. ”

        ” What is he doing? ” ” Well, he is walking his dog on the sidewalk and then he smelled the Lilac bush .. and then he looked up at the Steeple.. ”

        ” What was suspicious about his behavior?” ” Well everything.. He parked in front, got out and is now walking and looking. His dog also lifted his leg and peed on the tree. ”

        ” This is an Emergency.. He is now looking at the Stained Glass! ”

        ” Have you been drinking Pastor Cleary? “

      • Graham

        Thanks for checking that out Sunny. I find that quite sinister. A police car with uniformed officers, lights flashing and there’s no way to tell whether they are there doing their duty to protect you as a citizen or whether they are there as paid mercenaries?

    • joan nieman

      It is so incompetent of them!”We will call the police, right now, if you don’t leave this public sidewalk…that is really SOS’s private sidewalk now”! Unbelievable!!

    • DamOTclese2

      Rookies are dispatched to respond to the crime syndicate’s fraudulent phone calls. They don’t send experienced police officers, they have not sent experienced police officers on first response call-outs for something like 15 years now.

  • villagedianne

    Some spiritual philosophies have it that unless there is forgiveness, the karmic retribution continues back and forth through many lifetimes. Apologizing and forgiving are therefore of supreme importance if there is to be peace in this world.

  • Bella Legosi

    I find it incredible that anyone can say this is a “religion” when concepts such as forgiveness, contrition, and love are either totally absent from said “religion” or the very definition/concept is perverted and warped into a control mechanism!

    This brings to mind when I read Laura D’s story. When she “confessed” that she missed her parents. This natural instinct wasn’t seen as that. It was viewed as a negative. A sin. They warped a natural emotion of ANY child and made it into a punishable SIN. How fucking dare they!

    Reading what I have about forgiveness in Co$ and the absence of it truly makes me sick. Do these people believe that thru L Ron they become Holier Than Tho or too above something as simple and necessary as love, forgiveness, or contrition? I believe they are that deluded in “tech” and my answer would be a resounding YES. Without those basic concepts (love, forgiveness, contrition) you no longer have a “religion”. What you have is a cult susceptible to unspeakable abuse of basic human rights and of power. A sham and herpes sore on the very concept of spirituality and religion!
    >(

  • koki

    so, I was reading comments from yesterdays post and I see some people are shearing interesting news about new moderator here…
    I did not get that memo…
    what a bunch of jerks…

    • InterestedinCrazy

      Huhhh????

    • NOLAGirl

      No koki, there is no new moderator…I think they were just responding to a troll who was here to cause trouble.

      • Verve

        There was a troll that was acting high and mighty that a bunch of us spanked him/her like a bad meatloaf, so I’m going to back up NOLAGirl on this one.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      I think you had an MU. If there had been a new moderator, Tony would have annonced it.

    • Captain Howdy

      Here’s your sheared new moderator

      http://youtu.be/JP3y0XDXkOA

      • koki

        there is no point in doing this. bet you feel stupid now.

        • Captain Howdy

          Actually, I’m still chuckling, Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

          • koki

            is your daughter tickling you,like that night that you are forcing her to forget…?

            • stillgrace2

              Koki, WTF? Seriously!

            • Mooser

              Oh my, no there’s a guy who has a lot of authority when he criticizes people’s comments.
              He never lets anybody goad him into an ill-considered remark!

            • He’s busy shattering suppresives on this thread!

            • Qbird

              Sometimes… I do not get the jokes.

            • joan nieman

              Perfect poster Q Bird!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Ewwwwww.. You let me down, Koki.. I expect better from you..

            • koki

              CH understands….

            • stillgrace2

              Only the Captain gets to speak for the Captain. You crossed a serious line. In keeping with today’s blog post, maybe you should apologize.

            • koki

              when to neighbors are on the street and they are having conversation,I always hated that third one jumping in suddenly … do you also?

            • Rita Gregory

              WTF? Koki FUCK off! Not funny you ASS!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              At least he doesn’t have to hang out with Raeliens to get laid you ASSHAT!

              What is the bug up your butt lately, anyway?

              You used to be pretty cool but you are turning into a royal fucking donkey lately.

        • stillgrace2

          I seriously doubt he does, Koki. Just explain to everyone (that you called jerks) that YOU want to be named the new moderator, so you can enforce your own versions of blog commenting rules. Ask for what you want directly, not obliquely.

          • koki

            which tone level is this?

          • Mooser

            I say we put koki in charge of spieling!

            • stillgrace2

              Actually, I enjoy shearing interesting news!

          • sugarplumfairy

            I wanna be moderator! Just let me warm up smacking arm..

            • SopranoAscends

              On another blog, we put the unkind and ill-behaved in a time out chair. Something the moderator cooked up. Heh.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I like it.. I think we should have nap time as well..

            • joan nieman

              You can just use your wand fairy!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Imma hands on kinda fairy, Joan..

            • Captain Howdy

              I second that emotion!

              I’ve seen her work

              http://youtu.be/Ak1dPU8uXiE

      • Qbird

        whoa – they look like each other, the bull dogs & the dudes. Tough nutz.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      So you read the first few lines of that thread and took from it that BTN is affectionately called a moderator? Scroll down a bit, keep reading.

    • Mooser

      I love shearing the news, with all the other sheeple!

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        I see what you did there.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Here are some wonderful Hubbard constraints that support Jon’s great points:

    “A preclear refusing to answer an auditing question may be charged by the Staff Auditor with a ‘no report’ and taken before a Court of Ethics at once.”

    Whee! You better talk, or else get a “No Report” from your auditor! And then you are in big trouble!

    But don’t worry, we’ll pretend to give you “forgiveness” if you cough up all!

    No, Scientology’s key book, “Introduction to Scientology Ehtics” contains all the raw Hubbard Scientology rules showing Hubbard is truly irresponsible about treating people’s confessions!

    Skip Scientology!

    It will guaranteed trample and betray your trust! Hubbard’s ethics policy require tactics that are absurdly malicious.

    • DamOTclese2

      And of course the rube has to pay for his or her own “no report” and “comm ev” they get subjected to. Ker-ching!

  • Anonymous

    Jon Atack does a great job describing the messiness of “forgiveness” in Scientology. His placement of Scientology’s version of “confessing” in historical context is illuminating..

    Like so much of the “tech” in Scientology, “confessing” (disclosing ones’ overts / withholds to an auditor) is presented in a way that sounds laudable, but the practice is implemented in a manner that is nearly the exact reverse of the stated intent. Many religions have long known of the therapeutic (soul cleansing) attributes of various forms of confession. Most people in daily life have experienced the act of conceding an error and confessing the transgression to the offended party, with the simultaneous sense of relief from having done so.

    However Scientology takes it a step further in that the confessions, whether obtained in a supposedly confidential auditing session or in an openly non-confidential “security check,” are written down in great detail by the auditor. The church will explain this as a necessary part of ensuring the correct application of the “tech” so that the session can be reviewed after the fact by the Case Supervisor( and others.) And while this may be true, what is also true is that the discreditable actions confessed and captured in writing can and often are USED against the person later if they defect and make trouble for the church. Making trouble can include the simple act of asking for ones’ money back, including money put on account but never used.

    Scientology’s Fair Game policy is fairly well known here, but these three paragraphs are worth a further look:

    “Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

    “The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress
    Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty … this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends.”

    “By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines or the rights of a Scientologist.”

    L. Ron Hubbard, inter alia, “PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS”, HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967.

    Two very important points need to be called out from the above:

    1) Theoretically at least, the policy means that discreditable actions that a Scientologist has confessed to either in an auditing session or in a sec check are held in confidence as long as the person toes the line and
    remains “in good standing.” (It should be further noted that it is a frequent practice after a “sec check” to have the confessor hand-sign and date a document with all of the their discreditable actions fully delineated in writing. This is to ensure the person does not later recant if those discreditable actions are exposed by the church.)

    2) In practice however, as soon as a Scientologist becomes an ex-Scientologist, they are no longer afforded any “protection” from the so-called “ethics” policies of the church. This means that their auditing files are no longer “confidential.” In practice this means that if the ex-Scientologist makes trouble, discreditable information from their auditing confessionals and sec checks WILL be culled and used to silence, embarrass, and smear them (or worse.) This IS the practical application of this portion of the so called “ethics” polices of the Scientology.

    Many of the worst of the practices of Scientology have been exposed. Exposure of the above practice followed a path that is eerily similar to the outing of other despicable church practices. First, a disaffected ex-Scientologist describes a filthy church practice. The church denies the practice exists and smears the person who says it does. Later, more people describe the same filthy practice and sometimes produce documents proving its existence. The church then either declares the documents are forgeries; were previously cancelled; or are being mis-interpreted. Later, frequently after several lawsuits have been filed in which the filthy practice can no longer be denied because of overwhelming evidence of its existence, the church will concede the practice exist, but seek to then describe it as “constitutionally protected religiously motivated conduct” (at least in the United Sates.) The latter is among the arguments the church is now using to justify its already admitted harassment of Monique Rathbun in her lawsuit against them.

    From the footnotes [ at 45)] of an earlier article “Hubbard and the Occult” by Jon Atack:

    “In USA v Jame Kember and Morris Budlong, in 1980,Scientology lawyers admitted that despite public representations Fair Game has never truly been “abrogated” (sentencing memorandum, District Court,
    Washington, D.C. criminal no. 78.401 (2) & (3), p. 16, footnote). The Policy Letter which did eventually cancel it, off 22 July 1980, was itself withdrawn on 8 September 1983. Unknown to MOST of its adherents, Fair game is still a scripture, and according to Hubbard’s Standard Tech principle binding
    upon Scientologists.” Full link to the article is here: http://www.xenu-directory.net/writings/atack19980202.html.

    The church practice of treating critics as “Fair Game” (whether or not those exact words are used to label the activities) probably falls somewhere between Extortion, Protection and Exaction. Below are lay definitions for each of the three terms:

    Definition of “extort” from Black’s Law Dictionary:

    The natural meaning of the word “extort” is to obtain money or other valuable thing [such as silence] either by compulsion, by actual force, or by the force of motives applied to the will, and often more overpowering and irresistible than physical force.

    Definition of “extortion” and “exaction” from Wikipedia:

    Extortion is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense.

    Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force, but
    additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.

    Definition of “protection racket” from Wikipedia:

    A protection racket is a scheme whereby a criminal group provides protection to businesses through violence outside the sanction of the law. Through the credible threat of violence, the racketeers deter people from swindling, robbing, injuring, sabotaging or otherwise harming their clients. Protection rackets tend to appear in markets where the police and judiciary cannot be counted on to provide legal protection…

    As a final comment: What bona fide religious institution is so threatened by the simple and accurate description of its ACTUAL practices, that it seeks to silence anyone via who has the temerity to so describe those ACTUAL practices? Is tricking, suing, lying to and destroying “critics” valid religiously motivated conduct?

    It seems that most decent people believe that sort of conduct by a religion is not acceptable and not constitutionally protected, which is why such conduct has been outlawed for decades (in some cases centuries) in commercial endeavors.

    And so should those practices, under any name, be made illegal for Scientology.

  • BosonStark

    In a former life, Dr. Hubtard forgave me for thinking he was a fool.

  • koki

    where can I meet troll police ?
    when I was young ,I was dreaming to become one…,and I see here are 6 of them…
    please introduce your self to all of us… thank you-
    ML.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I wasn’t here yesterday so I’m just now catching up on some of the comments. I’m surprised you’re trying to defend the idiot that came here yesterday. Go back and read it. Then give me a big hello from sanity.

      • koki

        no, I am seeing IT is happening again down on comments….
        are we going to do that every day?

        • Mooser

          koki, if the comments disturb you, don’t read them. And yup, we’ll probably do it again today. To the tune of 2,000 comments or so. Lot of hits for the site, lots of activity.
          Got a problem with it? Well then, don’t add your hits to it. They all count exactly the same, no matter how you hit the button.

          • koki

            make a new answer-stop copy/paste.

            • That’s hilarious, seeing as Scientology is the ultimate copy/paste ever devised by man.

          • aquaclara

            Although for the sanity of the many loyal Bunkerites, can we consider NOT running up the comment stream, please?

        • GlibWog

          ” DON’T START NONE..

          WON’T BE NONE. “

  • Mooser

    I can’t believe Scientology would waste it’s time in Israel. Shows determination, anyway. There is only one cult allowed in Israel, and its name is Zionism. It’s not like South Africa, where apartheid might have made room for Scientology. if it wore the right hat..

    • Mark

      No cults in Israel? There’s so many cults there they have to wear special hats to tell each other apart:

      • richelieu jr

        You better not be talking about those of is in the People’s Front of Judea!

        The Judean People’s Front is a real cult, though!

    • DamOTclese2

      Actually there are several death cults in Israel, several of them are closely related and share commonality.

  • Seannie5

    “Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

    A lot of people describe the majority of scientologists as being good people who want to improve the world. How do they reconcile that ^ with being being an upstanding citizen? For those of you who were in, did it ever seem wrong to you or did you think that anybody who left the church or questioned it’s practices deserved such treatment?

    • Anonymous

      The practice of “fair game” was denied by the church for years, both internally and externally. Later they said it had been cancelled. Then they said that the bad people that had done it (the Guardian’s Office staff) had been expelled. Currently, they deny that the words “fair game” are used, but insist the practice is protected religiously motivated conduct.

      A very significant percentage of ex-Scientologists became “ex’s” when they could not longer deny to themselves that such conduct existed and that it was official policy for the church to perform such conduct.

      • Seannie5

        Thanks for your reply. I guess it’s similar to the Catholic church issues – so many devouts refused to believe their priest could be capable of child abuse, or the rumours were overlooked because one could never question a man of the cloth! Once the victims started speaking out and priests were jailed, a lot of people I know just couldn’t bear to have anything to do with Catholicism. Especially once it came to light that many priests and bishops knew what their colleagues were up to, but ignored it or just kept moving the paedophile priests from parish to parish.
        My Dad told me that when he was a kid, if you saw a priest walking along the footpath, you had to stop and bless yourself as he passed. The Priest was untouchable. Thankfully, that isn’t the case now, at least not where I am from. The problem with scientology is that DM and the ‘rules’ still hold that control and power over it’s members.

        • joan nieman

          Ugh!

        • Anonymous

          Yes…it is an ethics “crime” inside Scientology to know the truth about the conduct of Scientology.

          Breaking the grip of that idea on adherents, and breaking the grip with which adherents hold onto idea, are key steps in dismantling the oppressive mechanisms that Scientology uses to hide its true nature.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I really enjoy reading your posts, Anonymous.

            • Anonymous

              Thanks!

        • Missionary Kid

          Knowing a lot of Protestant ministers, there was a lot of the “halo effect” that was in operation when believers were around them. Being the son of one, I always looked on them as human beings who had the job of spreading god’s word.

          I still occasionally take advantage of the halo effect in revealing to true believers that my parents were missionaries. I just omit the fact that I’m an atheist, and let them natter on.

        • Candygram

          The interesting thing is that a number of priests have finally been brought to justice. How $cientology thinks declaring criminal behavior religiously motivated or part of its rites will provide legal immunity for their crimes is beyond me… except that equally ridiculous arguments seem to have worked for them in the past. I’m hoping those “wins” are increasingly distant memories.

      • Captain Howdy

        Actually the only thing that was ever canceled was the use of the term ‘fair game” in any memos that could wind up being viewed by wogs.

        • Anonymous

          Correct, partly. Hubbard did cancel the use of the words Fair Game, but not the practice.

          In the early 90’s there was an issue “discovered” after Hubbard’s death that disavowed any illegal acts that were done in the guise of applying Scientology “ethics” policies.

          This whitewash disavowal carries virtually no weight as demonstrated by the continued conduct in which the church engages against its more notable critics, especially ex-members who previously held senior level management positions.

  • Mooser

    BTW, all of this discussion of the “ethics” of Scientology compared to Christian or other religious systems sort of misses the point, I have felt for a while. The utilitarian ethics and authority structure, and the self-referential and loaded ‘ethics” investigations come from one place, and one place only, the military. (Which, gosh, come to think of it, is the only place Hubbard had any experience with “ethical” systems and authority structures which had real power over people. I don’t know why this point is so assiduously avoided, well, unless we are stuck in a cult of our own, centered around avoiding certain conclusions.

    • richelieu jr

      And where he famously couldn’t cut it and was constantly reprimanded…

      • Missionary Kid

        He pulled the reprimands in. Hahahahaha.

  • InterestedinCrazy

    I just love this photo from the time Wisey Beardy Clever man was in Dublin at a protest! We love you here, Mark!

    http://anonireland.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/im.jpg

  • ze moo

    The mayor of Stockton Calf. tried to get the city school district to use the ‘ The Truth About Drugs, the clam produced and administered anti-drug training ritual. I can’t call it anything but a ‘ritual’, as no professional has had any good reviews of the program.

    ‘Supporters say the program does not contain any Scientology material; however, the mere mention of the program’s background has been enough for it to be turned down.”

    “Are you kidding?” Lowder said, recalling the Hemet board’s strong reaction at the time. “Not only no. Hell no. We are not even going to touch this.”

    They can’t even hide in plain sight anymore. Victory…..

    http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131123/A_NEWS/311230315/-1/rss02

    • NOLAGirl

      So glad to hear that they denied this. Its scary to think they may be trying to sneak their bullshit into the Boys & Girls club. This is a group that has a special place in my heart as I used to take my younger brothers & sisters to our local chapter to hang out on the days we’d come home to a drunk mother. I pray they never let it into any of B&G’s clubs anywhere!!

      • ze moo

        The mayor needs some reality adjustment. I suspect he is just a pawn being used by the clams, but he may be an active secret clam. The voters of Stockton will have to decide. I do hope this becomes an election issue.

    • DamOTclese2

      The insane crooks have been phasing out their “NarCONon” fraud label and picking numerous other fake name fronts to hide their “NarCONon” frauds behind. We will see more and more schools having to be kept informed of Scientology’s crimes as Scientology tries to get money from our schools using endless parades of fake names.

  • Racnad

    Isn’t there an LRH quote that says “never apologize?” I was referred to this in the 1980s when I asked why the church never admits to wrongdoing even when it is blatantly obvious they have.

    • GlibWog

      Racnad.. I hearsayed it .. but stopped because I didn’t want to read more of his ” Quotes.” Ugh, Ugh..

      • joan nieman

        Baby, it is so inane it is impossible to get your head around it. You have to be brain washed first.

        • GlibWog

          and then there’s that Joanie..xo Such Drivel..

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Oh boy, Baby. I am with you on that one. Reading El Ron’s quotes just suck the life out of me!

        • GlibWog

          The Absolute Life.. ugh.. It burns my eyes and brain..ugh xo

    • DamOTclese2

      Close, the drug-addled conman had this to say, “Don’t ever defend. Always attack”

    • Cat Daddy

      “Never regret yesterday. Life is in you today, and you make your tomorrow.” Scientia

      L. Ron Hubbard

    • Cat Daddy
  • Truthiwant

    I have written another of my very silly stories. For those of you that enjoy them, here it is

    http://wp.me/p3a0JR-ff

    • Mark

      Very silly? Very good indeed!

    • tone 3.3

      Enjoyed the trip to your site. Do you also write as Goofus Mcfloof?

    • MaxSpaceman

      Truth I W – you’re a terrific writer !
      Enjoyed your story. Please post your link and stories more often.
      — Max Spaceman. (Off to Space Station 33 for to exact repairs and maintain vigilant watch for the return of Lafayette R H)

      • Truthiwant

        Thanks.
        Just be careful out there in the Van Allen belt. It’s dangerous territory and we don’t want Lord Xenu to escape while our courageous defenders are getting their space crafts repaired!

        • MaxSpaceman

          Tru-dat. Although classified, I will reveal to you, a true blue Bunkerito (Bunkeroo, Bunkerado, Bunkerite), something our long range scanner revealed– an indication of the looming danger —

          • Mark

            AARGH! IT’S THE MEKON!

  • SignsOfSuccess

    Please share it: It will save lives!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIIQVll7DYY

    • koki

      so, now even psychiatrist are good?

      • SignsOfSuccess

        Just share the video above if you care to actually save lives.

        • koki

          I do,and I will if you answer my Q…

        • IASREG

          NO. You didn’t DONATE. Telling women they don’t need mammograms causes MORE TO DIE. That guy is a batshit crazy nutcase.

        • NOLAGirl

          I have a very dear family member who WOULD BE DEAD had it not been for a mammogram discovering her cancer. And you’re a sick son of bitch to come here and try to push anything that says otherwise. As a woman I have to say, you disgust me!!! SHUT THE FUCK UP and go push your nonsense somewhere else!!

          • SignsOfSuccess

            “mammogram”? LOL
            Watch the video above, idiot.

            • noseinabk

              Wiki:
              Gøtzsche has been critical of screening for breast cancer using mammography, arguing that it cannot be justified; his critique has caused controversy.[10] His critique stems from a meta-analysis he did on mammography screening studies and published as Is screening for breast cancer with mammography justifiable? in The Lancet in 2000.[11] In it he discarded 6 out of 8 studies arguing their randomization was inadequate.

            • SignsOfSuccess

              The video above has nothing to do with mammography.

            • IASREG

              But the quack guy does. So he is anti-big pharma? He is also the anti-mammography guy.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Anti mammography? Fucking asshole. My mother died of breast cancer. At 53. A mammogram would’ve saved her. She didn’t have one, because she was afraid of what she’d find. Magical thinking kills.
              Scientology kills.
              You are an accessory to murder if you continue to advocate such dangerous things.

            • InterestedinCrazy

              You’re all about saving people’s lives and ‘doing something useful’ as per your comments on this thread.

              I have something useful to do. Post this:

              It will save lives AND do something!

              http://www.artpolitic.org/fileadmin/campaigns/0000_promotional/n0deal_ScientologyKills.jpg

            • DamOTclese2

              Ha! Not being on the list is going to make Kirstie Alley scream obscenities — and eat a couple poundcakes.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              He is lying to you. “Drugs” are not the third leading cause of death in the West. Please, look it up. The third leading cause of death according to the CDC is lung disease. Of course, nicotine and tobacco can be technically labelled as drugs, but you know that psychs aren’t selling people cigarettes. Right?

            • IASREG

              Interestingly many mentally ill people are chain smokers using nicotine to self medicate. Marcotai could save Scientolgist Meat Bodies if he intiated an eradicate smoking campaign in Scientology. The Scientology Wellness program. This would not go far.

            • InterestedinCrazy

              Ok, guilty. I’m an institutional smoker. I smoke when I’m there. Rabid anti-smoking when I’m not. Shoot me. the craic is much better in the smoking lounge than the regular one. 🙂

              (google craic)

            • Captain Howdy

              “Craic or “crack”, is a term for news, gossip, fun, entertainment, and enjoyable conversation, particularly prominent in Ireland.”

              Go raibh maith agat.

            • MaxSpaceman

              “craic” pronounced “crack”
              –soooooooo much different than American crack

            • Aslansown

              That’s actually really true! It was true when I was in the hospital and it was especially true when I was working at a big corporation. All the networking seemed to happen in the smoking area! It was almost enough to make me start smoking!

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              90% of people with schizophrenia.

            • IASREG

              L Ron Hubbard was probably schizophrenic, smelling smells, hearing sounds, seeing things nobody else saw, and he chain smoked 4-6 packs of cigs per day. So many Scientologists are heavy smokers…

            • Once_Born

              No, but the other junk science that this individual has been responsible for speaks to his reliability on the subject of drugs.

              The same applies to Hubbard.

            • kemist

              Meta analyses are often the crappiest studies you can find in scientific litterature.

            • NOLAGirl

              Idiot huh? Well you’ve clearly put me in my place. LOL

              Word clear this: FUCK OFF.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a intellectually disabled person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

              Let me repeat ………counterproductive……
              That means YOU are the idiot……..IDIOT.

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Whatever….Just watch the video above and share it as much as you can.
              Be useful for at least one day.

            • IASREG

              No, Downstat. Get a cancer screening! Auditing WILL NOT cure anything. But remember to audit you will need those two new e-meters! You have to redo your objectives, don’t forget!!!!

            • NOLAGirl

              For one moment, I’m going to ignore what an insulting jerk you are and ask.. Do you honestly believe anyone here is going to share your video???

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Do you mean that there is not a single one in here with a conscience?

            • IASREG

              Have you bought your e-meters? Will you donate to the IAS? Are you redoing your Objectives yet? Do you not have a single dollar for KSW? Donate 50,000$ and I will help disseminate the video to ESMB and WWP.

            • InterestedinCrazy
            • NOLAGirl

              Think about it. (refresh)

            • Espiando

              I don’t have one. That’s why I can say with certainty that if you ever end up in my sight lines, I’m going to show everyone how hot dogs are made. With you as the raw material.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Nope, its the weekend. I am completely useless on weekends.

            • IASREG

              I just ate a weekend steak and baked potato meal and am especially worthless reduced to college footbal,l a recliner, and beer. This could occur again on Sunday for the NFL. Each crowd for each game being magnitudes of order higher than the most important event in the universe ever’s crowd. I believe it is helping to save the planet though.

            • IASREG

              Downstat, we know who this guys is, anti-big pharma, anti-mammography guy. You are a despicable piece of human garbage and a perpetual downstat.

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Whatever….Just watch the video above and share it as much as you can.
              Be useful for at least one day. It really could save lives!

            • IASREG

              No, he is a nut. He advocates against cancer screening which costs lives. Remember to go get screened. Also, you need to redo your objectives, don’t forget about that, get your e-meters (bet get a cancer screen to because auditing does’nt cure cancer ever), and donate to the IAS!!!

            • Candygram

              repeating yourself is your special talent, huh? that’s all you’ve got?

          • Rita Gregory

            Me too, Nola and I am really pissed! Get him girl!

        • kemist

          No, because in the real world it does not.

          In the real world, ignoring your disease and replacing adequate medical care and prevention with happy joy-joy oh so theta thoughts is what kills people.

          Ask all those OTs whose superpowers didn’t keep them from dying from cancer.

        • GlibWog

          SOS.. The last time I clicked on a link of yours I got a Virus..

          YOU THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID.. SHIT..

          OK I’m done.. back to topic.. ugh

          • InterestedinCrazy

            Uh oh. i clicked….what to do now?? eeps

            • Rita Gregory

              I think you should be ok since it’s youtube. Anyone know for sure?

            • SignsOfSuccess

              LOL

            • GlibWog

              OK.. Rita No you can NOT get a virus from Youtube video.. You are right..

              Do NOT click on anything though that is linked to the video.. Baby

            • Rita Gregory

              Thank you, Baby!

            • GlibWog

              You are welcome Rita.. Either way SOS is an Asshole..hahahha

            • GlibWog

              Interested.. I wouldn’t click on anything a Troll puts on.. he was pretty insistent..

              I do want to say.. I did get a Virus. It was around the same time SOS was trollin.. I don’t know what to tell you.. I just don’t know computers that well..

              I do NOT want to alarm you..I guess I did. I am so sorry.. sigh baby

        • kemist

          That video has no information whatsoever that “will save lives”.

          It’s about some scientists who want to check out the output of pharmaceutical companies in the scientific literature. I have nothing per se against such an initiative, since I am very aware of some pharmaceutical companies’ practice of ghostwriting papers and failure to disclose conflicts of interest. I find the short term strategies those companies have developed in the last decade abhorrent. If you ask anyone who has worked in that industry as a researcher (and who’s probably not working for them anymore since they closed all their R & D departments), you’ll probably get the same view.

          Furthermore, some of the suggested measures to attenuate the problem of overprescription are already implemented in many countries. For instance, it is already forbidden to advertise prescription drugs in Canada. Has been for as long as I can remember. Some others, like avoiding to publish drug trials, are frankly weird. Let them publish, as long as they disclose their conflict of interest. And FFS, start funding academic research properly again.

          Bone-headed refusal to take any prescription drugs will do nothing to curb the harm caused by the greed of pharmaceutical companies, or “save lives”. Pharmas will simply take advantage of the very diminished powers of the FDA which classifies as food anything that calls itself a “natural supplement”. Some of them already do that and have gotten involved in the much more safe and cheap, development wise, vitamin racket. And people will discover why their doctor had prescribed them a statin rather than resveratrol after they wake up in the ICU.

          Somehow no one seems to bother with the side-effects and deaths caused by supplements among the Big Pharma conspiracy nuts. Perhaps it’s because they also fail to disclose their own conflict of interest as providers of those things.

          • MaxSpaceman

            T/O (time out) – “prescribed them a statin rather than resveratrol

            — *Very* important for any viewing the Bunker right here right now, who *hasn’t* heard of “resveratrol”

            — Statins can be helpful and important, for some. But if they can be avoided, better for the body.
            — Resveratrol – a supplement (from red grapes; red wine itself being the best delivery system) is showing up as super helpful to the body, for long-term health.

            • Aslansown

              I’ve never heard of it. What is it helpful for? (really interested b/c I was recently prescribed a statin.)

            • Captain Howdy

              Statins are for high cholesterol.

            • Aslansown

              I know — and I’ve definitely got that! I was wondering about the resveratrol. I’ll hearsay it.

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Here it is: you can order resveratrol (the most powerful antioxidant on Earth) here:

              http://www.silkskin2.jeunesseglobal.com/

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              Are you promoting a drug?

            • SignsOfSuccess

              It’s not a drug, Resveratrol is found in the skin of red grapes and in other fruits as well as in the roots of Japanese knotweed. It’s a natural supplement.

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              It is a chemical compound extracted from a plant. If it can produce some effect in the human body, then it is a drug. Toxic chemotherapy agents can be extracted from a plant. Naturalness of something is arbitrary. A snake bite is natural. Chinese herbs that destroy your liver are natural. Since we don’t consume significant amount of Resveratrol on a normal basis or produce it in our own bodies, “supplement” doesn’t really fit.

            • IASREG

              Scam.

            • kemist

              If you are among the target population for statins (at high risk for heart attack) it is a very bad idea to go for supplements. Normally a doctor won’t prescribe them unless you need them.

              Do not play with supplements when you need a prescription drug.

              Supplements are rarely reliable in terms of purity, presence of absorbable drug or pharmacokinetics from one lot to another. They are not submitted to the same rules as real drugs. They can contain absolutely anything, from heavy metals to actual drugs as doping agents.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Of course, K. And at the same time, you are not forgetting that I stated –

              Statins can be helpful. For some people. For others, not. Make it important to find out for yourself.

              As you know, K, a person wants all things they can muster, to draw upon, to keep body and mind together. They include supplements. You know that. They include medication. You know that. And people taking supplements aren’t stupid/ignorant (some are, course). They find out the data on the manufacture and get the ones best-rated.

        • chukicita

          Oh but we do care about saving lives. That’s why we ask you to really look. Yes, there are a lot of frustrated people here because it’s hard to sit and watch people like you walk off a cliff with your nose in the air. But we’ll be here for you when you’re out. Just ask Tory.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I have to say I’m stoked to see you show up. There was an eerie fog creeping in. Any good wins lately?

      • DamOTclese2

        Well, he was sitting at a red traffic signal and decided he would send intention beams to force the light to turn green and while he was working on it, it did! It turned green! WIN!!!

    • IASREG

      Telling women they don’t need to get mammograms isn’t saving lives! You need to DONATE to the IAS for KSW to save Scientology! You pulled in the poor attendance for the Falg Building opening by NOT DONATING!!! Have you purchased your new e-meters!!!!! Would you be interested in buying a few sets of The Basics?

    • Captain Howdy

      Marco Solo Nut to the rescue!

    • SignsOfSuccess

      Go ahead, thumb down this video. It’s says a lot what kind of people are behind anti-SCN hate propaganda. Let me get a screenshot so that i can share with everyone asking me; “why some individual are against SCN.?”

      • IASREG

        You think people won’t google who this guy is? The anti-mammogram guy! THUMBS DOWN and THUMBS DOWN for YOUR FAILURE to make things go right and DONATE for KSW. You are Downstat. You are the perpetual foot bullet machine.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Will it up your stats? There you go. I threw you a bone and downvoted you.

      • Seannie5

        Hey Signs, do you know that everything you say in auditing sessions is being recorded and filed away in case you turn rogue?

        What’s it like paying thousands to learn about something that Claire & Co are revealing for free? (LOL, this one cracks me up no end!!)

        What’s it like being part of a ‘religion’ that most people are too embarrassed to reveal their allegiance to, because they will be unmercifully mocked?

        What’s it like being over 18 and not having complete freedom to read any book or internet site?

        What’s it like to not have to spend 7 years training to be a Doctor, because hey ho – you KNOW how to heal a car crash victim.

        What’s it like having a leader who has been cheating on his wife for years?

        Genuinely curious to know your answers to each question. You should be able to answer all of these questions if you have freedom of speech!

        • SignsOfSuccess

          Sorry, but those questions are based on frivolous assumptions.

          • IASREG

            Like Shelly, Heber, Guillame, Ray, etc. YOU weren’t allowed to come to the Flag Building Opening!!!! YAY! I’m GLAD they kept counter intention downstats like you away! Sure, the crowd didn’t top 3,000 and only about 1,000 public but to keep the Downstats of Scientology at bay was PRICELESS!!! Don’t forget to buy some Basics, two new e-meters, redo your Objectives and donate BIG to the IAS for KSW!!! DONATE MARCOTAI!

          • Gerard Plourde

            You still haven’t answered the questions I posed concerning statements Hubbard made in the chapter on Simon Bolivar that condone what is generally accepted to be unethical behavior. You can link back to them and give it a shot here. I’m sure the other Bunker readers would like to know your view on them.

          • NOLAGirl

            Yet, you won’t answer them. If they are untrue…then answer each one and enlighten us on what is frivolous and/or false about them. Shouldn’t you be clearing up any falsehoods being spread about your church?

            • Semper Phi

              Yes, he should, but remember he has {scripture} behind him — always attack, never defend. Scilons will never engage in a productive dialog with anyone who questions or disagrees with them, especially in public.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Yes, SemPhi! I always forget – when temperatures rise and the ‘bots are trolling. They’d rather be RPF’d than respond to, “why don’t you answer my question,” from any one in Underground Bunker.

              Because of their sacred text, as you pointed out: “… {scripture} behind him — always attack, never defend. $cilons will never engage in a productive dialog with anyone…

            • NOLAGirl

              I know. And I usually don’t even bother with trolls. Just caught me in a bad mood. I’m better now. ; )

          • Seannie5

            WAIT – Tom Cruise said that scientologists are the best people to deal with car accidents – I have it on video!! you calling him a liar?
            That you have to pay thousands of dollars to reach OTVIII is not an assumption!
            I thought you scientologists spend hours word clearing? You don’t seem to have read my questions at all.

          • Missionary Kid

            So are your replies.

          • Graham

            “Sorry, but those questions are based on frivolous assumptions.”

            Translation: la, la, la. Not listening. I’ve got my fingers in my ears. la, la,la.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            No. Facts.

      • Missionary Kid

        I notice that you didn’t answer Straight Diet of Kerbango’s post. You are a tool of LRH, and deserve all of the evil that he’s bestowed on your life.

      • Once_Born

        I assert that the sky is GREEN. Go ahead downvote me.
        That says a lot about the kind of people who are behind GREEN SKY DENIALISM.
        Let me get a screenshot so that I can share with everyone asking me; “why do some fools think that the sky is blue”.

        Or is there something wrong with the argument…. surely not.

      • Graham

        Just for the record. I don’t hate $cientology. I despise it.

      • Donut

        What are your crimes that they make you post like an arrogant prick?

    • joan nieman

      I wouldn’t waste my time SOS!

    • Sarah James

      Please share it: As a cautionary tale.
      Scientology should never give medical advice. Scientology is organized crime, scientology harms and kills. Scientology cares about money not human life. David Miscavige belongs in prison.

      • Tory Christman

        Amen, sister!! As someone who got $cientology’s “Medical advice” for 30 years re my medical condition, Epilepsy…and nearly died twice due to their insane insistence I get off of my much needed medication. As someone who FLAG told my Dr (Dr. Denk–Hubbard’s Doctor,too)…they would not allow me onto OT 4 even though my Doctor SAID “the medicine Tory takes is NOT a mind altering drug and she’s fine to get auditing”…did they listen? HELL NO. Only when *I* said I want my GD folders sent up to Ray Mittoff (head of tech then, now in “The Hole)…and let him decide if you have an “MU” or I do. One month later—the entire Flag Land Base Technical crew was crammed re medicine. A Senior C/S Int bulliton was written about me…saying IF s/ones Doctor says it’s “ok” to take their medication, then it’s OK! ALL of the peeps held back due to medicine, my Mother-in-law included………..we all were finally “allowed” onto our next services.

        Ya wanna fuck with me? Go right ahead. As I said when I started my YouTube site and Scientologists started sliming me: “I’m from Chicago and here’s MY policy for YouTube:
        YOU FUCK ME ONCE, I’LL FUCK YOU TWICE……….EVERY TIME.
        And I have, too 🙂
        Back to nice language…sorry. (Not really but hey 🙂 Love you ALL!

    • Artoo45

      Atak’s post was pretty devastating, eh Marco? Hence your valiant attempt at derailing and flaming. Won’t work. Not here. I get how devastating last weekend was, it must be hard to see the ship begin listing in earnest now, passengers sliding down toward the cold waters of reality. Stop rearranging the deck chairs, the captain has bailed.

    • nottrue

      SCIENTOLOGY KILLS

    • SignsOfSuccess

      Ok, I’m off. A great event is waiting for me.
      Thanks for your “help”. Let me get a screeshot of the thumbs up and down.
      It’s worth 1000 words when answering some people’s questions about anti-SCN groups.

      • IASREG

        Don’t forget to redo your Objectives! Donate to the IAS!!! Buy your e-meters!!!! Bring CASH.

        • NOLAGirl

          Does being the “all-knowing guru on everything Anti-Co$” get him any points?? 😀

          A great event is waiting for him?? Damn, I wish I could get that excited when I’m scrubbing the toilets in my house. 🙂

          • MaxSpaceman

            Oooof, NG — I felt the blade of that one whisk by my midsection, even, that was so cutting!

            Cheers on your well made coupe de guerre!!

            • NOLAGirl

              Thank you Max. ; ) Sometimes that troll really pisses me off.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Girl, I hear you! I really hear you!
              (It takes us Bunkeritos (Bunkeroos, Bunkerados, Bunkerites) into a kind of UnderBunker Frenzy and ya’ jes’ wanna wail on the little sucker!)

      • noseinabk

        This picture is worth 1000 words when answering peoples questions about scientology.

        • noseinabk

          • GlibWog

            Wow.. That took my breath away.. I don’t care how many times I have seen this ..I have the same reaction.

            Pure sadness and rage.

            • Cat Daddy
            • GlibWog

              Thank you Cat.. I needed to release tears. They cleanse the soul.

              I HATE THIS FUCKIN CULT.

            • Cat Daddy
            • GlibWog

              OMG.. seeing Tory cry.. and hearing that Video in the background.. Wow.. That was so moving and powerful.. of course I cried right along with her..

              and my doggy just came up to lick my tears.. sigh.. Loved it Cat.. You always know which videos to put up for us..( for me! ) baby

            • Cat Daddy

              Just Desseminating sweetheart, can’t help myself

            • GlibWog

              Well next time you disseminate CatDaddy would you please hand me a box of Kleenex first.. Good Lord..

              and you wonder why they call me baby.. I am Pure Mush.. sigh.. xox

            • Tory Christman

              Me too, and they don’t call me baby—but my heart is with you 🙂

            • GlibWog

              I have found that Sensitive people are sensitive to the needs of others..

              It has been both a blessing and a curse.. You just want to save ’em all, huh Tory..

            • Tory Christman

              Thanks, Cat….I forgot about this one 🙂 🙂 Love what you said, too, GlibWog!

            • GlibWog

              I am nothing but a big baby.. I just lost it.. The pain.. then my pain for losing my twin sister.. just got all entwined.. xo

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Sometimes I feel as if I’m inside Lisa McPherson when I hear her story. My empathy quotient gets dangerously high and I hyperventilate and have near panic-attacks and want to scream and tear out my hair. Who among us wouldn’t have reacted that way, if in her situation? This young woman didn’t have a chance. She had her whole life ahead of her and she was smart enough to ask for help from the EMT’s. She knew she needed help that the Scientologists couldn’t give.
              But they wouldn’t let her have it.

            • GlibWog

              OH PI … Yes.. I know how you feel..I can honestly say that because I have put myself in her place so many times..

              Damn it. DAMN THEM.

          • chukicita

            This is Scientology’s answer to what to do with mental illness.

      • Captain Howdy

        “A great event is waiting for me”

        A colonoscopy?

        • NOLAGirl

          Thank you dear Captain!!! I needed that hearty laugh that your post gave me. ; )

        • richelieu jr

          It will never get deep enough to find SOS’s head…. Right next to her(?) ethics…

        • Missionary Kid

          It should be done the same way that LRH declared childbirth should be done — silently, without drugs.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Oh no! Please don’t out us for not giving a shit about you and your stupid video.

        Whatever will we do.

      • IASREG

        But if they are Wogs you won’t even get past the Scientology part. Wogs will look at your weird blank glossed over Tone 40 glare with the “WTF Scientology ?” look. Then when you start talking about Psychiatry conspiracy theories, holocaust revisions, etc., they are thinking about Xenu and the Tom Cruise video. 99% of the time it is already game over. Then they want you to answer questions relating to Xenu, holocaust revisions, Tom Cruise, LRH’s faked biography, Stolen Valor, fraud, disconnection, forced abortions, Miscavige Violence, The Hole, Debbie Cook, refunds, lawsuits, Marty Rathbun, Monique Rathbun, OSA, David Miscavige, Mike Rinder, The Squirrel Busters, Fair Game, David Mayo, Private Investigators, Narconon, insurance fraud, Lisa Mcpherson, suspicious deaths, Quentin Hubbard – you know how the list goes on and on and they are questions you cannot answer truthfully in any substantial or satisfying way. This is why you have to donate, it is so difficult in these times of the internets and their vast fringes to stop the entheta. You have to make that donation to the IAS.

      • chukicita

        Have fun at your event. But later maybe you could word clear “peer review” “anecdotal evidence” and “scientific method.”

        • Graham

          I think they’re only allowed to use the $camatology approved dictionary these days and I doubt any of those vital phrases appear in that.

      • Once_Born

        “[…] screeshot of thumbs up and down”

        a) ‘Thumbs up and down’ are on facebook – you are on WordPress Blog
        b) I doubt you can take a screenshot when you can’t even spell it
        c) Showing that you have lots of downvotes might not prove what you think it does

        You have an opportunity here to make arguments and present evidence to support your case… and all we get is superficial comments and basic mistakes – so your contributions only illustrating the shallow nature of Scientology and its trolls.

        Of course, what you do here is only for internal consumption – another indicator that the CofS is withdrawing and will soon implode.

        Unless you would like to engage with us..? Good luck with the event.

        • MaxSpaceman

          As the once-in-now-gladly-out Sempher Phi put it downthread, OB, if you dint catch it (and meself keeps forgetting it) — the $cilon ‘bot would rather be RPF’d than to “make arguments and present evidence,” as you put it.

          Here’s SemPhi: “… {scripture} behind him — always attack, never defend. $cilons will never engage in a productive dialog with anyone who questions or disagrees with them…”

          • SignsOfSuccess

            “unproductive dialog”
            Fixed.

          • Once_Born

            Yet he is out… so people can and do wake up…

            I notice that SOS’s style changes subtly, suggesting that the account is probably being run by several people who are following a playbook (e.g. make short comments designed to create dissent, derail discussion and fill whole tracts of comment space up with hostile replies).

            Whoever is commenting might also be being watched over, in various ways, specifically to prevent them exercising their curiosity.

            I really don’t know myself… but perhaps it might not do any harm to try to engage, now and again, if only to avoid reinforcing the lie that the ‘wog’ world is uniformly perverse and hostile.

    • Mark

      The Cochrane Collaboration has done a lot of valuable work in improving the general standard of randomised controlled trials of medicines; there is a well-respected NHS-funded Cochrane Centre in the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochrane_Collaboration
      What has $cientology ever done for medical science except pervert and misuse it?

    • Captain Howdy

      So Gøtzsche who is a medical researcher, but not an M.D as far as I can see, wants to eliminate the use of all psychiatric drugs (along with many non-psych drugs and treatments)?

      So what does this “medical researcher” offer as treatment and relief in lieu of these drugs and treatments?

      Hubbard’s on record as saying that scientology wanted nothing to do with the ‘insane’, so what’s the alternative, marco?

      • IASREG

        He want’s to give them the Lisa Mcpherson treatment in room 174 of the Fort Harrison hotel.

        • Ruby Grapefruit

          You mean the Ft. Homicide Hotel?

      • Mark

        Professor Gøtzsche is an M.D., among many other qualifications: http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/activities/visitreport.faces/en/49713/html.bookmark

        • Captain Howdy

          Thanks, wikipedia didn’t bother to mention that.

          Sounds to me like Gotzsche suffers from “Szasz Syndrome”

          Brilliant on some subjects, but dangerously deluded on others.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz

          • kemist

            I call it Pauling Syndrome.

            But perhaps that applies only to scientists who think their opinions in other fields are more valuable than those of the experts in those fields because they won a Nobel Prize.

            • Graham

              Amazing the number of Nobel prize-winners who later go completely off the rails embracing some bat-shit crazy theory outside their area of expertise.

            • kemist

              Kary Mullis (inventor of the PCR) is one of the most batshit insane weirdo to get one IMHO.

              But I do not know if he qualifies, since by all accounts he was quite nuts before he got the prize.

              When asked how he got the idea for the PCR, he said it was transmitted to him by a glowing raccoon standing on his garbage can.

      • Rita Gregory

        If I ever have to go off my meds again I’d be happy to pay him a visit……

        • Sherbet

          I’ll join you. Psych Meds Takers of the World, Unite!

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      Thanks for the video. I watched the whole thing and carefully considered the information presented. He raises important issues. Unfortunately, there is a lack of nuance to his arguments that might not be apparent to those unfamiliar with the subject matter.

      SoS, I wonder if you would ever bother to consider arguments that are in conflict with your own beliefs.
      I doubt you care, but here are some of my thoughts in no particular order:

      1) There can be conflict of interest of drug companies funding/designing the research for their own products. We are all well aware of this. Unfortunately, it is a complicated issue. Often without easy solutions.

      2) It’s not as if he is a lone crusader in researching harmful outcomes. Of course, in reality, there are many in academia that devote their careers to discovering adverse outcomes from our interventions. Also evaluating risks vs. benefit is something we physicians do every day when prescribing medications.

      3) Also unfortunate is his failure to recognize the goals of academic psychiatry are not in lock-step with the goals of Pharma.

      4) The evidence suggests that SSRIs can increase suicidal ideation in the child and adolescent age group, but not increase therate of suicide attempts. Important distinction.

      5) The mafia vs. Pharma analogy is irrelevant.

      6) His argument referring to the Monoamine Hypothesis (“not enough serotonin”) is a ridiculous straw man. There is no one in academic psychiatry that believes this is close to a complete model for the biopsychiatry of depression.

      7) He fails to make the distinction between what the guidelines are for use of medications and the problem of the medications being prescribed poorly. Two different issues.

      8) He is being dishonest in suggesting that our plan is to keep patients on antidepressants indefinitely. There are very clear guidelines for discontinuing antidepressants that any third year medical student is aware of.

      9) Fails to point out that the largest prescribers of antidepressants and benzodiazepines are primary care providers and not psychiatrists.

      10) I have heard that complications of medical/surgical treatment are the third leading cause of death, but never prescription drugs alone. And he does not mention that a majority of adverse outcomes are by overdose, not problems coming from use as directed.

      11) We have done a lot of hand wringing about whether the benefits of antipsychotics justify the adverse effects. For example, schizophrenic patients die two decades earlier than general population. Are the metabolic problems caused by antipsychotics making schizophrenic patients die early? That question was not answered until recently. Thankfully, we now know that schizophrenic patients seem to die earlier if untreated due to the inherent risks of the illness itself.

      12) He puts forth a strange non-sequitur: there is a higher subjectivity in psychiatric diagnosis, therefore psychiatric drugs arethe most dangerous.

      I doubt you cared enough to read this. If you did, can you do me a favor and post
      that picture of the Volunteer Minister parade in Haiti?

      • Just Dee

        Great post!

        • Missionary Kid

          I started to read the Bunker too late, but I still challenged Shit On a Shingle to answer you. Crickets.

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          Thanks. Doubt he’ll read it, though.

      • SignsOfSuccess

        Here it is SDoK, and thanks for your reply. I still think that there is a huge problem with psychotropic drugs and something should and can be done about it.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl4_mMADGg

        • nottrue

          INTERESTING

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          Be careful of blanket statements about “psychotropic drugs.” I wonder if you think there are ANY acceptable uses?

          1) A man is brought to the emergency room for crack-cocaine induced psychosis. He
          becomes agitated and aggressive. He punches a nurse, runs into another patient’s room, and it takes six security guards to contain him. Even if handcuffed, he presents serious danger to himself and other people. How would you handle this situation?

          2) 72 hours following a surgery, a man who has not revealed the extent of his drinking starts going into delirium tremens, a syndrome with very high risk of mortality. What’s your next step?

          3) An 80 year old lady has emergent surgery after breaking her hip after a fall. At night, she becomes confused and repeatedly tries to climb out of bed and rip out her
          central line. How do you keep her from accidentally killing herself?

          4) Due to a medical illness, a patient develops a syndrome called catatonia which prevents him from moving, eating or drinking. This condition will lead to death if not treated emergently. Next step?

          • SignsOfSuccess

            I’m not against giving those drugs in case of emergency but prescribing them to 25% of the US population including vivacious children it’s seems to me a crime against humanity.

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              Yeah those darned pediatricians like to dole out the Adderall to those middle and upper class white children.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              My college kid is home this weekend. Adderall is the new drug of choice for college girls and the Hollywood starvation diet-set.
              There has actually been progress in the over-prescribing of such drugs to younger kids.

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              The massive shift from instant release to long-acting formulations in the last decade is a huge improvement in itself.

              Psychostimulants remain underprescribed in inner city, black populations.

            • Espiando

              I’d rather have kids drugged and quiescent than pestering my existence. The 25% should be 100%.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hear, Hear!

            • IASREG

              Yes you are. You want to do the Introspection Rundown just like what happened to Lisa McPherson instead of using valid treatments. Donate to the IAS to have the Introspection Rundown run on you. Stop lying.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              How do you know that 25% of the US population is on prescription drugs? Have you seen them take the drugs? Have you actually seen 25% of the US population take drugs? You have stated you ONLY believe what you have seen with you own eyes! If YOU have not seen this, how can you claim it to be true?

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I upvoted you for saying that you aren’t against these drugs and treatments in emergency situations. Thank you for acknowledging that there are situations that Scientology and auditing cannot help.
              I see hope for you.
              Your 25% figure is not accurate.
              There are many of us here who believe children are currently over-diagnosed for ADD and overprescribed adderall-type drugs. However, it’s actually the psychiatric community ITSELF that is rising up and fighting this.
              “Destroying all the psychs” is not the answer.
              And the truth is, for children who actually have ADD, drug therapy can make the difference between a life of low achievement, frustration and anger, and one of hope and success.

          • SignsOfSuccess

            You could have easily avoided n.4. me think.

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              Nope. Catatonia can be caused by thinks like metabolic derangement. To continue with (4): This is your loved one. First line treatment with lorazepam provides only partial improvement and things are getting bad. The gold standard treatment is ECT. A single treatment usually brings rapid and complete resolution. The psychiatrist only gets paid about $50 dollars, the anesthesiologist gets $800 for this low risk, 5 minute procedure. What do?

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Is not ECT banned in US yet?

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              No. It’s the gold standard for severe treatment resistant depression, depression with psychosis (grandma starts to think the world is coming to an end because of her bad deeds and is in danger of dying because she won’t eat or get out of bed), and for patients that decide in advance this is the treatment they want if they get manic again. Takes just a few minutes, no need for intubation, like setting a bone. Rapid general anesthesia with paralytic agent on board, an electrical impulse to induce a 30-60 second generalized seizure, there is no thrashing as you may have seen on TV, give some Torodol for the headache and patient wakes up. It is a rather mundane procedure. Anesthesia doesn’t like doing them because they are boring. The short term anterograde amnesia can be a bitch, but there are ways to mitigate this.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Thank you. SDOK.

            • Espiando

              No, and it shouldn’t be until we kidnap you, bring you here, and give you it, with the electrode shoved straight up your ass. That’s the most direct path to your brain anyway.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              ECT has been studied to death, refined, and is currently used brilliantly as a last-ditch solution to treat otherwise untreatable depression. Carrie Fischer has had ECT. It’s side effects are a short-lived loss of short-term memory, mostly around the immediate aftermath of the therapy. But properly done and supervised, it is painless, otherwise side-effect free, and it has saved countless people from the extreme psychic pain and possible lethal effects of severe clinical depression.
              So many Scientologists have committed suicide. In the right, controlled environment, with a licensed and caring physician, psych drugs and in a worst case scenario, ECT could have helped save their lives.
              Oh yeah, but LRH said, “We’d rather have you DEAD than incapable.”
              Ergo sum, there are a hell of a lot of dead Scientologists.

            • IASREG

              No, you don’t think. Think about making that big IAS donation, pay your Freeloader Debt, get on those Objectives, buy the two new e-meters, quit worrying about psych drugs, LRH took them.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              #4 sounds like what your Scientology friends baby watching Lisa McPherson jotted down in their diaries about her behavior. How could they have “easily avoided” it? I’m sure David Miscavige wish he’d known how.

        • Espiando

          The only problem with psych drugs is that you aren’t on them. I’ve had mammoth wins on mine, much better than any I could have had with your cult.

          TAKE PSYCH DRUGS! THE WORLD IS BETTER WITH THEM!

          And fuck off, Marco.

        • IASREG

          LRH wanted psych help from the VA after world war 2. LRH had psych drugs in him when he died. Donate to the IAS to keep this information from Scientology public.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Splendid answer to SoS, and very interesting to read.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Dave Miscavige, through a maze of investment bank accounts offshore (Isle of Man, Cayman Islands et al.) through various corporations $cientology Inc. that make things difficult to trace – and who is tracing tax deductible contributions, anyway, so this is a no brainer – reportedly gave $2 million in 2009 to The Cochrane Collaboration for which this man, Peter Gotzsche speaks.

      $cientology front group, CCHR, benefits greatly from the funded research. Cochrane publishes data — reliable? recognized by socieities globally? ideas penetrate into the treatments systems in nations? — no, not much. But the benefit to is that is supports the Cult’s statements/beliefs about psychiatric medications, Big Pharma and psychiatrists. That’s why Miscavige provides huge donatiins yearly.

      The Cult of $cientology Inc. – Front Group. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) Mission statement:” a non-profit, non-political, non-religious mental health watchdog. Its mission is to eradicate abuses committed under the guise of mental health and enact patient and consumer protections. CCHR has helped to enact more than 150 laws protecting individuals from abusive or coercive mental health practices. CCHR functions solely as a mental health watchdog…”

      • jeff

        Good sleuthing there, Max. The guy’s a $cientology shill.

      • Captain Howdy

        That’s a Bingo!

    • MaxSpaceman

      SignsOfFLUNK!

      $cientology Incorporated funds The Cochrane Collaboration and this man’s work, Peter Gotzsche, with millions of dollars per year.

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/23/jon-atack-why-do-scientologists-find-it-so-difficult-to-apologize/#comment-1136444930

  • Moonshot

    The church’s “handling” of confessional auditing is perhaps, from a religious and moral point of view, it’s single greatest evil. Yes, Fair Gaming and Disconnection are horrible. But the duplicitous and self-serving use of the confessed sins and crimes (given up for the most part in a sincere effort to repent and be better) of church members is a BETRAYAL of the first order.

    Jon is very correct that “technically” there are 2 forms of confessional auditing. In the religious auditing form, such as Grade 2 or when a Overt/Withhold is found in the course of other auditing, it is supposed to be protected under priest-penitent strictures. In other words, its should only be used by Case Supervisers to help the preclear in later auditing or CS’sing steps, but can never be revealed otherwise. If told “this is a sec check,i am not auditing” then the revealed info can be used in Ethics and Justice matters. Members are told in no uncertain terms, that this is how it works.

    Well, thats fucking bullshit.

    They can and will use ANYTHING discovered in auditing. YEARS after my first Scientology auditing, while i was at Flag getting hammered in a really intense ETHICs cycle by a 15 year old Miscaviage Youth Ethics Officer to my great suprise the nasty little bitch pulled out some reports and informed me these little gems were “Session KR’s.”

    In other words, my very first auditor had taken selected tid bits I revealed believing these things to be the subject of a sacred and iron clad duty on the part of the “church” to hold forever confidential and had written up seperate Knowledge Reports on these things and sent them to the Ethics Depaprtment to thereafter become part of my permenant Ethics Folder. So a record of these things exist in both my PC Folders AND in my Ethics Folders. I’m sure every auditer i ever had did the same.

    COOL AIDE DRINKERS, WAKE THE FUCK UP!.

    You have been betrayed from the word go.

    • Moonshot

      Furthermore, it is a curious to note that the “church” loses PC Folders all the time. When a member isnt on auditing lines for a while, these things are put into “storage” and somehow they often get lost. Not in the majority, but its not an uncommon occurance.

      Strangely enouph, i have never heard of a single instance where the “church” has lost even a single Ethics Folder of a single chruch member, anywhere at anytime.

      Most convenient.

      • Zana

        They lost my folders. I couldn’t believe how stupid it was. I had to go to one of those blue buildings… ASHO? AOLA?… to see an MMA. The MMA was not there. I was left to sit for 6 hours. Then I finally left and, lo and behold, nobody could find my folders. We couldn’t find them for 6 months… with both myself and my auditor looking for them. Demanding them. They were wasting my time routing me all over here and there around the big blue complex. So stupid. I SWORE at that moment to never get involved in an org. Nice young kids who know nothing about life telling me what to do and how to live. Not.

        • Moonshot

          Yes Zana, THEY lose your folders, but they made it YOUR problem. Par for the course with Co$. But it was your PC folders they lost, not the Ethics folders, correct?

          • Zana

            Hmmm… yes… I guess you’re right. Because it cost me a lot of money to “audit” out my “sins”.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Ah yes, sec-checks morphing into confessionals and the “power to forgive”.

    Reading your comments here Jon I realize that I was doomed to failure as a scientologist. I always thought that if I did something bad, I should make up for it. I really believed in the part of the formula for “liability” that required “making up the damage done”. Not as punishment, as is so often thought, but to make things as right as possible. Not only confession but contrition.

    Some of the biggest disconnects I had with scientology were when there was no apology or making up the damage done when someone did something harmful. It always seemed that the more senior or more monied or more “OT” got away with anything. Me, I always had to scrub floors or do renovations or something.

    And when I made a complaint that the person harmed me had not made up the damage, I was shamed for being a ‘victim’.

    Another curious application of this ‘ethics’ is that the ‘amends’ do not have to be done to help the individual or group harmed. If Bobby the contractor stole my money and didn’t do the work I paid for, it was an overt. And usually he would have to do “amends” as part of making up for that. But in scientology, he could discharge that by building something for the ‘church’, or donating money to the IAS or putting in hours filing letters in the central files.

    I never got that. It just made me mad to see folks doing these easy generalized amends for some criminal overt that had nothing to do with the people they harmed.

    Another curious thing was the end point of confessionals. I used to joke that just when you think you have lost all ability to withhold anything, you’re done.

    I got about 300 hours of sec-checks, FPRD style in the last few years I was a scientologist. I went at it with the personal goal to reveal everything fully and completely. I made sure I told all, about everything. I was really reaching for the personal gain of being completely honest about every little thing I had done wrong, everything I was ashamed of.

    And the result of that was that I began to see clearly that they were lying to me. That the way they were treating me did not make sense according to hubbard’s policy and ‘tech’. I had no more reason anywhere to imagine it was my fault. So, in a sense, the confession worked. I was honest. Why weren’t they?

    Karma-Vipaka indeed.

    • Madora Pennington

      Great comment.

    • Zana

      Thank you. What I found is that most Scientologists are good people, wanting to improve their lives and do well for others. So they get caught up in this pr. And then they become the “shills”… bring in the others, because they are well-meaning, think that this organization is doing something wonderful for humanity one person at a time. In the meantime… the guys at the top, the “Enforcers” have a whole different agenda. So the good, selfless people work their hearts out and the guys at the top use them as slaves to promote their own agenda.

      Thank you for giving us your perspective. The more actual accounts we get from people, the more clearly we can put this jigsaw puzzle together and see the whole picture.

    • richelieu jr

      Yup, that’s Scientology all over. Glad you’re out and here sharing with us.

    • Cat Daddy

      n

      – Next
      – Previous

      Appendix I

      Security Checks

      Security Check Children

      Bulletin September 21, 1961

      The following is a processing check for use on children.

      Be sure the child can understand the question. Re phrase it so he or
      she can understand it. The first question is the most potent.
      Children’s Security Check Ages 6 – 12

      What has somebody told you not to tell?

      Have you ever decided you did not like some member of your family?

      Have you ever taken something belonging to somebody else and never
      given it back?

      Have you ever pretended to be sick (ill)?

      Have you ever made yourself sick (ill), or hurt yourself to make
      somebody sorry?

      Have you even wanted something every much, but never told anybody
      about it?

      Have you ever gotten yourself dirty on purpose?

      Have you ever refused to eat just to worry someone?

      Have you ever remembered something about yourself and not told
      anybody, because you thought they wouldn’t believe you, or be angry at
      you?

      Have you ever refused to obey an order from someone you should
      obey?

      Have you ever told another child something that wasn’t true, just
      to frighten or upset him?

      Have you ever bullied a smaller child?

      Have you ever deliberately got another child, or a grown-up, into
      trouble?

      Have you ever pestered grown people, who were trying to work?

      Have you ever been mean, or cruel, to an animal, bird or fish?

      Have you ever forgotten to give food or water to a pet entrusted to
      your care?

      Have you ever broken something belonging to someone else?

      Have you ever deliberately spoiled clothing of yours because you
      didn’t like it?

      Do you have a secret?

      Have you ever noticed something wrong with your body that you were
      afraid to tell anybody about?

      Have you ever done anything you were very much ashamed of?

      Is there anything about you your parents could not understand, even
      if you told them?

      Have you ever failed to finish your schoolwork on time?

      Have you ever flunked an examination at school?

      Have you ever deliberately given a teacher trouble?

      Have you ever tried to make others dislike some teacher?

      Have you ever tried to make another child unpopular?

      Have you ever broken, damaged, or taken, any school property?

      Have you ever lied to a teacher?

      Have you ever been late to school, or late to a class?

      Have you ever stayed away from school, when you could have gone??

      Have you ever cheated by copying someone else’s work, taking notes
      into an examination, or looking up answers in a book when you weren’t
      supposed to?

      Have you ever spoiled things for somebody?

      Who have you made guilty?

      Have you ever done something you shouldn’t when you were supposed
      to be in bed or asleep?

      Have you ever told others bad stories about someone?

      Have you ever tried to make others believe that your parents, or
      teachers, were cruel to you?

      Have you ever offered as an excuse for something you have done
      wrong that you are only a child, or that you haven’t grown up yet?

      Have you ever felt that your parents and home were too good for
      you?

      Have you ever felt that your parents and home weren’t good enough
      for you?

      Is there anything you should tell your parents, and never have?

      Have you ever done anything to some else’s body that you shouldn’t
      have?

      Have you ever told anyone that you did something, when you hadn’t
      really done it?

      Have you ever told anyone that you hadn’t done something which you
      really had done?

      Have you ever ganged up on another child and made fun of him
      because he was different from the rest of you?

      Have you ever made fun of another because of the way he looked?

      Have you ever decided never to talk to someone again?

      Have you ever made your parents or teachers work harder than they
      should?

      Have you ever decided that you were too bright, or too smart for
      the other kids?

      Have you ever annoyed an adult by something you did or said?

      Have you ever hurt a child?

      Have you ever mae a child cry?

      Have you ever made a child sulk?

      Have you ever kept another child from having something that really
      belonged to him?

      Have you ever found anything and failed to return it to its owner?

      Have you ever told stories about someone behind their back?

      Have you ever lied to escape blame?

      Have you ever not told the whole truth about something so as to
      protect someone?

      Have you ever felt ashamed of your parents?

      Have you ever disappointed your parents?

      Have you ever run away when you should have stayed?

      Have you ever felt sure your parents wouldn’t understand something
      that had happened in school, so you didn’t tell them?

      Have you ever not told teachers something about your family because
      they wouldn’t understand it?

      Have you ever failed to keep another child’s secret?

      Have you ever felt it was just no use talking to someone?

      Have you ever hurt someone you didn’t mean to?

      Have you ever been sloppy about your clothes or possessions?

      Have you ever cried when you shouldn’t have?

      Have you ever been a coward?

      Have you ever made too much fuss over a little hurt?

      Have you ever tried to make your parents believe you were doing
      better in school than you were?

      Have you ever told on anyone?

      Have you ever teased younger children?

      Have you ever mae a mess and not helped to clean it up?

      Have you ever broken or damaged something and never told anybody it
      was you who did it?

      Have you ever let someone else get punished for something you did?

      Have you ever cried till you got your own way?

      Have you ever decided “Someday, when I’m grown up, I’ll get even”?
      If so, with whom?

      Have you ever picked on someone smaller than yourself?

      Have you ever upset anyone by throwing a temper tantrum?

      Have you ever hurt anyone by telling them you didn’t love them any
      more?

      Have you ever made out that you were more badly damaged than you
      were in order to make someone stop picking on you?

      Have you ever pretended to like someone that you didn’t like in
      order to satisfy your parents?

      The Only Valid Security Check

      Policy Letter May 22, 1961 (Amends all existing data on
      Security Checks)

      Since a Security Check failure can compromise or injure a person’s
      position or economics, and because we are not moralists, it is
      better to be more positive on the subject of a Security Check failure,
      leaving no part of it up to judgment.

      The question of what constitutes a Security Check failure has now
      troubled enough people to make it necessary to lay down the following
      policies.

      A Security Check to be used for any organizational reason must be
      made on a Hubbard Communications Office World Wide form.

      There are only three ways a Security Checker may flunk any person.

      The Security Check may be considered flunked if there is
      no needle response of any kind to any question with meter
      sensitivity even at extreme high. Rise as a reaction is ignored
      throughout a Security Check. A rise is not a useful reaction.

      The Security Check may be considered flunked if any
      compromising or important question still persists in getting a
      consistent reaction (not a rise) even after the Security Checker has
      done his best to get the person being checked to clear it by answering
      truthfully.

      Refusal to be checked.

      Lie reaction failure may no longer be considered a flunk. Important
      questions always have enough charge on them to cause a reaction even on
      bad criminals and the reaction will continue consistently or
      sporadically if the person is still withholding information.

      The question of something reacting because of past life crimes is
      ruled out it, when a question fails to clear, the Security Checker adds
      “In this lifetime?” to or in the question and works on that question
      continuing to use that added phrase. Reactions by reason of past lives
      tend to drop out and clear if this is done.

      The task of the Security Checker is to carefully question and clear
      if possible changes of meter needle behaviour caused by the question.
      Plainly note any level that failed to clear. This fails the person.

      The lie reaction questions were originally used in Scientology only
      to study the needle pattern of the person being checked so that changes
      in it could then be judged in their rue light. Some preclears, for
      instance, get a slight reaction every time any question is asked.
      Some get a reaction only when there is heavy charge. Both can be
      Security Checked by studying the common pattern of the needle
      demonstrated in asking the Lie Reaction questions. The purpose of the
      Lie Reaction questions is returned to the original intention.

      A totally stuck needle can be freed by processing, or by getting off
      withholds. If a person is flunked by reason of 1. above, they require
      auditing before another check is taken, the auditing to be taken at the
      responsibility of the person being checked.

      All Security Check sheets of persons Security Checked should
      be forwarded to Saint Hill, complete with all markings and the
      reason why the question would not at first clear, if important, or the
      drop marked which would not clear and whether or not the person was
      passed or failed.

      Nothing in this Policy Letter changes the responsibility of the
      Director of Training in preventing Scientology from being taught to
      persons who would use it in violation of the Code of a Scientologists.

      In reprinting this check sheet leave all directions as part of every
      sheet.

      … The following statement should be read or quoted to the person
      being Security Checked:

      “We are about to begin a Security Check. We are not moralists. We are
      able to change people. We are not here to condemn them. while we cannot
      guarantee you that matters revealed in this check will be held forever
      secret, we can promise you faithfully that no part of nor any answer you
      make here will be given to the police or state. No Scientologist will
      ever bear witness against you in Court by reason of answers to this
      Security Check. This Security Check is exclusively for Scientology
      purposes. The only ways you can fail this Security Check is to refuse to
      take the test, to fail to answer its questions truthfully or if you are
      here knowingly to injure Scientology. The only penalty attached to
      failure of this check is processing or our refusal to employ you or
      issue you a certificate, and this will only happen if we find that you
      trying knowingly to injure Scientology. You can pass this test by (1)
      agreeing to take it, (2) answering each question truthfully and (3) by
      not being a member of a subversive group seeking to injure Scientology.

      The first questions are null questions to determine your reaction
      pattern.

      Are you sitting on a chair?

      Are you on the moon?

      Are all cats black?

      Am I an ostrich?

      Is this Earth?

      Have you ever drunk water?

      Are you holding up a tree?

      Am I an elephant?

      Are you a table?

      Is this a Security Check?

      Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name?

      Have you given me your right name?

      Are you here for a different purpose than you say?

      Have you ever stolen anything?

      Have you ever done any shoplifting?

      Have you ever forged a signature, cheque, or document?

      Have you ever blackmailed anybody?

      Have you ever been blackmailed?

      Have you ever cheated?

      Have you ever smuggled anything?

      Have you ever entered a country illegally?

      Have you ever been in prison?

      Have you ever tried to act normal?

      Have you ever indulged in drunkenness?

      Have you ever done any reckless driving?

      Have you ever hit and run with a car?

      Have you ever burglared any place?

      Are you guilty of anything?

      Have you ever embezzled money?

      Do you have a secret you are afraid I’ll find out?

      Have you ever assaulted anyone?

      Have you ever practised cannibalism?

      Have you ever been in jail?

      Have you ever told lies in Court?

      Have you ever been Court Martialed?

      Have you ever deserted from a military service?

      Have you ever illegally prevented conscription?

      Have you ever been a mutineer?

      Have you ever had anything to do with pornography?

      Have you ever committed arson?

      Have you ever been a drug addict?

      Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict?

      Have you ever peddled dope?

      Have you ever PDH’d anyone?

      Have you had any dealings with stolen goods?

      Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political
      reasons?

      Do you have a police record?

      Have you ever raped anyone or been raped?

      Have you ever been involved in an abortion?

      Have you ever committed adultery?

      Have you ever committed bigamy?

      Have you ever practised homosexuality?

      Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women?

      Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family?

      Have you ever been sexually unfaithful?

      Have you ever practiced sex with animals?

      Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually?

      Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practices?

      Have you ever practised sodomy?

      Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of
      your own sex?

      Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?

      Have you ever committed culpable homicide?

      Have you ever committed a justifiable crime?

      Have you ever bombed anything?

      Have you ever murdered anyone?

      Have you ever hidden a body?

      Have you ever attempted suicide?

      Have you ever kidnapped anyone?

      Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying?

      Have you ever acted as an informer?

      Have you ever betrayed anyone for money?

      Have you ever betrayed a trust?

      Have you ever betrayed an employer’s trust?

      Have you ever speculated with somebody else’s funds?

      Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person?

      Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or
      misdemeanor committed by another?

      Have you ever threatened anyone with a firearm?

      Have you ever been in illegal possession of firearms?

      Are my questions embarrassing?

      Have you ever been paid for giving evidence?

      Have you ever acted as an informer?

      Have you ever injured somebody’s reputation by knowingly spreading
      lies?

      Have you ever injured somebody by spading tales you knew were true?

      Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else?

      Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family?

      Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum?

      Have you ever been pronounced insane?

      Have you ever been a spy for an organization?

      Have you ever looted any place?

      Have you ever stolen from the armed forces?

      Have you ever conspired with anyone?

      Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a
      Communist?

      Have you practised fraud?

      Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?

      Are you hiding anything?

      Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol
      or drugs?

      Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money?

      Do you collect sexual objects?

      Have you ever ill-treated children?

      Have you ever practised sex with children?

      Have you ever practised masturbation?

      Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse?

      Have you ever sexually coerced a servant?

      Do you have any bastards?

      Are you withholding anything?

      Have you ever had any connection with a brothel?

      Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex?

      Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?

      Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure?

      Have you ever crippled a person?

      Have you ever been a spy for the police?

      Have you ever pretended a disability?

      Are you afraid of the police?

      Have you ever committed a misdemeanor?

      Have you ever committed a felony?

      Have you ever committed a capital offense?

      Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out?

      Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for?

      Have you ever criminally avoided taxes?

      Have you ever counterfeited money?

      Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or
      documents?

      Have you ever obtained money under false pretences?

      Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find
      out?

      How could you help yourself generally?

      What represents yourself?

      How could you help your family?

      What represents your family?

      How do you feel about sex?

      What represents (the Org (others (a group to you?

      How could you help (the Org? (others? (a group?

      How could you help mankind?

      Have you ever controlled people?

      How do you feel about being controlled?

      What is Communism?

      Do you feel Communism has some good points?

      Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any
      associated group?

      Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the
      Communist Party?

      Do you know any Communists personally?

      Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology?

      Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization?

      Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization?

      Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization?

      Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn’t have?

      Do you have any overts on L. Ron Hubbard?

      Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?

      Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard?

      Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology
      orgs?

      Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology?

      Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed?

      Have you knowingly planned not to do your job?

      Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard?

      Have you ever injured any Scientologist?

      Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists?

      Have you ever betrayed Scientology?

      Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology?

      Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization?

      Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology?

      Do you deserve to be helped by Scientology?

      Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon
      anyone?

      Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to
      be paid you?

      Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization?

      Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist?

      Are you upset about this Security Check?

      What question in this check shouldn’t I ask you again?

      Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure
      someone?

      What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this
      check?

      Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another?

      Are you upset about this Security Check?

      Security Check of Scientology Students

      Policy Letter, June 29, 1961

      Are you coming on this course in order to get away from someone or
      something?

      Are you here to get into something? to find out whether Scientology
      works? to prove that Scientology can’t help you?

      Are you coming on this course with the intention of killing off
      your body? with the intention of spinning? or going insane?

      Are you presently taking tranquilizers? drugs? or medication of any
      sort?

      Have you had sex with any other student? a staff member?

      Are you trying to get another student to have sex with you? or a
      staff member?

      Have you coughed or distracted others during a lecture?

      Have you criticised this course, or the organization, verbally or
      in writing to non-Scientologists?

      Have you been thinking unkind or critical, thoughts about your
      preclear? L. Ron Hubbard? your instructor? your auditor? other students?
      staff members?

      Are you in disagreement with any of the stable data of Scientology?

      Have you secretly violated any course rule, or regulation? passes
      on restricted data of Scientology to unauthorized persons? tried to give
      Scientology a bad name?

      Are you making any Scientologist guilty of anything?

      Have you done anything that would discredit Ron or Mary Sue
      Hubbard, or your instructors, by reason of their having trained you?

      Is there anything that L. Ron Hubbard, or your instructors should
      mistrust you for that you haven’t told them about?

      Are you in communication with someone who understands more about
      Scientology than L. Ron Hubbard?

      Is anyone hostile to Scientology assisting you financially on this
      course?

      Is anyone here counting on you to keep a secret for him?

      Have you any feeling of “injured innocence” at having been asked
      these questions?

      Have you been critical of the data or quality of the tapes?

      Have you ever written and then destroyed critical messages
      addressed to L. Ron Hubbard?

      How do you feel about these questions?

      Auditor’s Sec Check

      Policy Letter July 7, 1961

      Have you ever permitted a preclear to take control of the session?

      Have you ever startled a preclear when he was on a comm lag?

      Have you ever permitted a preclear to have secrets from you?

      Have you ever blamed the preclear for running over time?

      Have you ever blamed the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard
      for your preclear’s case not advancing?

      Have you ever failed to flatten a process when it was still biting?

      Have you ever jammed a preclear into a one-way flow and left him
      stuck there in it?

      Have you ever audited badly?

      Do you regard auditing as a punishment?

      Do you feel that auditing is too good for psychotics, or cripples
      or criminals?

      Have you ever been distressed because of a preclear’s physical or
      mental pain under auditing?

      Have you ever stolen from a preclear?

      Have you ever stolen another auditor’s preclear?

      Is there any question the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard
      should have asked you and hasn’t?

      Do you hope you don’t be found out?

      Have you ever avoided receiving auditing yourself?

      Have you ever mistrusted your E-Meter?

      Is there anything mysterious to you about an E-Meter?

      Have you ever let a preclear control you?

      Do you think selling auditing is really a swindle?

      Do you think there is anything wrong with having your own privacy
      invaded?

      Have you ever sought to prove that auditing would not work?

      Have you ever done anything to slow down L. Ron Hubbard’s research?

      Have you ever wasted auditing time?

      What do you wish you hadn’t done?

      Are Scientologists’, or Ron’s goals really false?

      Are you upset by this security check?

    • indie8million

      You, my good man (and I mean that literally) are so right. Everything you said is true but, in particular, in my experience, what you said about “It always seemed that the more senior or more monied or more “OT” got away with anything. Me, I always had to scrub floors or do renovations
      or something” was dead on.

      I have seen this for the last 15 – 20 years, in particular. And on serious crimes that people should go to jail for – child molestation, for example. Ethics is supposed to, “keep entheta off the lines of the org so that people can do their bridge.” That should mean, “If someone is trying to steal your husband or the husband is sexually abusing the 4 and 5 year old girls (actually happened),” ethics should step in, make that activity stop and declare the person if they are enturbulating the people who are on course and trying to get busy helping people. Did that happen? NO. The person who was REPORTING it got their tit in a wringer for “making noise and enturbulating the org.”

      See how it gets turned around? They have reinterpreted that policy to mean, “If you come in here fussing about something, we’re going to handle YOU because you’re here in the org and are causing enturbulation.” I actually asked an MAA (Sea Org Ethics Officer) why they weren’t calling in the actual person who was committing the crime and upsetting people. She, for real and honestly said, “They aren’t even (taking services) here. Why should we call THEM in and get them to do anything. We aren’t being paid to handle them.” What??

      And what you said about the Liability being done for other people, absolutely. “Well she did amends.” or “That was handled at another org.” I said to the MAA, “But it can’t be handled, she never did any conditions to ME.” No making the person actually CONFRONT the person they harmed. It was suggested that I write it up (for the 2,000th time) and they’d see what they could do about it. But she was the one with the money. No urgency to take her off course, even though it meant that she might have trouble on her OT levels if she didn’t fully make things right with the right people.

      So totally opposite to how it was being done when Ron was alive. People at the org CARED what happened to people. Cared that the right thing was done. I actually know of one guy who was sent to jail for sexually abusing a minor. But that was in 1980. Not today.

      This is why the Indies, in general, are pissed off. Will the real Scientology please come back?

  • Funnybroad

    I know this is totally unrelated to today’s topics, but I thought I’d share it anyway, ’cause I think it turned out kinda funny.

    • Verve

      Pure awesome, right there. And scary nightmare fuel, to boot!

    • GlibWog

      Funny…hahahhahahhaa Last night I got bored playin with the Troll and Youtubed Cruise jumpin on Oprah’s couch.. Just for grins..

      and this.. is fabulous… thanks hahahhaha

      • Gerard Plourde

        Oprah’s fearful expression seems to convey “He’s gone crazy! Is he violent?”

        • Candygram

          One of the Scary Movies took the couch jumping to its logical, hysterical, frightening conclusion.

    • Sarah James

      He does know how to work the ick factor.

    • Someone else was rather fond of Kool Aid.

    • Candygram

      perfect!

    • Cat Daddy
      • joan nieman

        If you watch that video with the sound off, it looks like Tom has completely lost control!

      • Madora Pennington

        Actions of someone teetering on the cliff of a breakdown. Stop talking to BTs, TC!

    • Cat Daddy
      • DodoTheLaser

        Thank you, Cat Daddy! Bill Maher and George Carlin are my faves.

  • Madora Pennington

    Jon I bought your book but haven’t started it …. I know once i do, I’ll be consumed, won’t be able to put it down or do much else. I need to get some other things done first!

  • Observer

    Here’s a link to the full bulletin I quoted on this one. As with all Hubbard’s pronouncements, it’s a jaw-dropping mix of arrogance and ignorance.

    Edit: DUH! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.scientology/0LJnoz4vNFc/rEi1ood3QvYJ

    • Sherbet

      Holy crap. And to think Leah Remini DID feed her daughter that glop.

      • Observer

        Unless she said it herself, I’m not so sure she did. She seems to have had a strong independent streak for a long time.

        • Sherbet

          Somehow, I had the impression she did say it on a talk show, which was one of the reasons I didn’t like her at all. I thought she was a nut, to put it mildly. But you may be right. I have no proof of it.

          Have I mentioned that lrh was a madman? Well, he is.

          • Observer

            You could be right; I don’t know that she didn’t. It seems uncharacteristic of her, but then I know far more about the out Leah than I do about the in Leah.

            • Sherbet

              Me, too. I used to boycott King of Queens so as not to contribute to its ratings.

          • Aslansown

            I remember that too and I thought she was crazy at the time.

        • Sherbet

          It was from a Rachael Ray show, but the clip has disappeared from the website. Too old, I’d guess.

      • Observer

        I wonder what the Roman equivalent of Karo syrup was, and who developed their process of milk homogenization?

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          This has been around for trillions of years. People on earth have just forgotten about it.

        • Exterrier

          Caligula, I bet.

    • Just Dee

      The fact that anyone would listen to this lunatic, especially regarding children, is disgusting!

      • Sherbet

        And pay money for the “privilege,” too, Just Dee.

      • joan nieman

        I suspect Suri was given that formula.

    • Observer

      What I like is Ron’s magnanimity in decreeing that Baby should see Mama and Daddy at least once a day. Because, you know, dedicated Mama and Daddy Scientologists were so busy deploying their fixed, dedicated glares in service of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics that without Ron’s benevolent admonition they’d forget all about Baby.

      • Sherbet

        And leaving the baby alone for “a day or so.” I can’t imagine what that does to parents and child, emotionally.

        • Observer

          Not only leaving the child alone, leaving the child alone unbathed. I’m sure drying placental fluid is very soothing to a newborn. Gah!

          • Sherbet

            So, the baby is inside a warm, dark place with the sound of voices and mother’s heartbeat and other body noises filtering through, and nutrition constantly provided, for 9 months. Then a few hours of strong pushing and contractions…and then s/he’s all alone in a blanket, with crusty/sticky skin, in silence with no skin-to-skin contact or familiar maternal smells…and probably screaming it’s head off in confusion. Yeah, that sounds like a healthy start for a good little scientologist baby.

            • Captain Howdy

              Now, now.You don’t want to baby the ..err…baby. Babying the baby is downstat, which babies are already. You want them up and trying to walk ASAP so they can be UPSTAT and chopping wood or herding the genetic entity infested cats and dogs.

            • Sherbet

              And making money. Gotta get those deadbeat toddlers earning some cash to turn over to the cos.

            • joan nieman

              Aw Sherbert! That is so sad and cruel.What an evil monster LRon was and where were the mothers’ maternal instincts?

        • Candygram

          definitely weird. and “alone” in what way?

          • Sherbet

            Good question, Candygram. I’m wondering if the baby gets fed at least.

            • Natasha Boris

              Don’t be silly, of course the baby gets fed. And some of these quotes are being taken a) out of context and b) are mostly ignored by most Scn mothers delivering anyway. Leave the baby unwashed? Gross. Leave them alone? Not on your life! He means, let them sleep and don’t have a ton of people clamoring and taking pics and bright flashing lights, etc. It’s good for the mom too and common sense. Delivering a baby is exhausting! I know lots of Scn mothers who’ve opted for epidurals and anesthetics during labor. I haven’t met one who left the baby alone, unwashed and unfed.

              You need to be careful sifting the truisms from the sh*t.

      • Candygram

        Yeah, i noticed that too. See mommy and daddy at least once a day? Um… how about pretty much nonstop for at least 6 months? I’m also fixated on the “dedicated glares.” For a few weeks now, i’ve been trying to figure out what a $cilon stare looks like. How would i spot it? Is it a particular look… or just a feeling it gives you? Don’t know why i’m so hung up on this, but i thought i’d get the question out there.

        • Observer

          I’d call this a fixed, dedicated glare. It’s Helena Kobrin, Kendrick Moxon’s law partner (unless something has changed) and Scientologist. There were rumors that she blew a few years ago, but I’ve never heard whether they were confirmed.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I hate this bitches face to the nth degree!!!!!
            And yes, she has the evil stare down pat.

            Isn’t she in the Hole?

            • Captain Howdy

              She is the Hole.

            • joan nieman

              If she is in the Hole, Bury, she looks like she could tunnel herself out like a rat!

            • Natasha Boris

              She is not in the Hole. She’s still in Scn, she was in CW for the SP events. She never blew, but she may not be working at Moxon’s anymore.

          • Candygram

            ohhhhhhh… thanks for the picture. Frankly, i didn’t imagine it that scary. Though, the chick that hovers around the lower QA office in Seattle looks like this a little. But, really, not that much. So there are masses of people that look like this? like, who are not in horror movies?

            • Candygram

              clarification re horror movies: really cheezy horror movies?

          • Candygram

            wow. scary like a cheezy horror movie. there are really whole groups of people who look like this? I apologize if this ends up looking like a dup post. I replied earlier, but it looks like Disqus ate it.

          • Candygram

            Weird. Hello, Disqus, you ravenous beast. This post is for you personally. Devour and enjoy.

          • indie8million

            I see more terror than anything. Like a caged animal, sick from malnutrition and harassment. Anybody would look pissed off with that kind of treatment.

          • joan nieman

            Now that is a frightening picture…kind of a Jezebel look about her.

    • Great White Clam

      Somebody better shoop in da baby givin lrh da finga pronto!

    • DamOTclese2

      The fucking insane drug-addled lunatic thought he was an expert on literally everything. Amazing.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Of course, what’s missing from this poster is that before he started on his baby-rearing advice, he first told the expectant mother, “See this coat hanger thingie here? I have an interesting suggestion for where you might want to put it…”

      • joan nieman

        Ugh!

    • Donut

      Thanks for that Observer, what a psychopath. I get really creeped out by anything Hubbard had to say about babies and children. I’ve never seen that picture outside of my worse freaking nightmares.

    • i-Betty

      AARGH!

    • i-Betty

      This series by Obs is as good as any other series at the Bunker.

    • GlibWog

      ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRgh.. I could just puke.

  • GlibWog

    OK Everyone.. Have a great day.. I gave myself until 3 PM to party with you.. Computer off and OMG CLEANING..

    You can literally eat off my floors..

    but you have to like spaghetti .. xoxo love Baby … PS BE SAFE IN HERE..

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Have a great day, Baby! C-ya around 🙂

    • Tory Christman

      Me too, GW 🙂 Have a great day one and ALL 🙂 I’ll check in between cleanings: ARGH!

    • Captain Howdy

      That’s the immortal spirit! Get those stats up, baby.

      • GlibWog

        Awwwwwwwwwww GIMMEEE DAT BABY…

        Yes Howdy.. My husband just told me he wasn’t going to pick up my shit anymore while I’m on this forum..

        GAwwwwwwd how selfish can a person be?

        I think he got pissed when I asked if I had any clean underwear.. Damn.. How touchy..

        • Aslansown

          I felt so guilty when I read you and Tory were going to clean that I just vacuumed for the first time in a long time! Ever since I started reading the Bunker any cleaning, decluttering, etc. I used to do has stopped! My big goal for today is to wash the dishes!

          • GlibWog

            OMG no guilt .. I am eating a huge piece of DQ Ice cream cake .. Reese’s Peanut Butter cup.. TO DIE FOR..

            I finished dishes from last night.. ( My hubby cooks) and Stuffed Shit here and there.. Sprayed Febreeze and I am good to go.. ha

            • Aslansown

              Oh man, that sounds delicious. I might have to actually get dressed and go out and buy some Ben and Jerry’s now…mmmm. But it’s only 23 degrees out so, maybe not…

              I love the Febreeze idea! 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Stocks went up for Febreeze once I discovered it..Lion..

              OMG go get your Ben and Jerry’s ..don’t be such a Woose..xo ha

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You crack me up. Febreeze rocks!

            • GlibWog

              Uh.. YEAH !

            • ozzybud420

              those as so fucking good i may hafta go buy 1 asap…..after i desnow/frost the car, stupid snow.

            • GlibWog

              Ozzy.. haha I just woke up from my Sugar Coma… OMG, but it was so worth it..

              Did you get one?

          • stillgrace2

            I felt so guilty I fired up all my iRobot products! Now, as I am typing this, my living room is being vacuumed, kitchen floor washed, garage being swept, and the gutters being cleared. Ooh, I just heard the automatic cat box being activated.

            • Aslansown

              Hahaha! I need the kitchen floor one!

            • Sandy

              I would luv an iRobot, but I’m afraid the poor thing would gag to death on the pet hair!

            • stillgrace2

              iRobot does make a special model for multiple pet households. My Roomba keeps pet hair completely under control (no special model). I just have to clean off the pet hair that accumulates around the beater bar axles and the brush axles a few times a week, in addition to the normal bin emptying. Serious defurring once a month.

              I really should work for iRobot. I am a big fan!

            • Sandy

              Jeez – I really might have to invest! Thx for the info – seriously

            • Robert Eckert

              Watch out or one of your robots may commit a protest suicide!

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/robot-suicide-roomba-hotplate-burns-up_n_4268064.html

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I was cleaning today too. I have been gone from my house for the last five weekends in a row and the house began to give me “dirty” looks.
            But I went into super dooper overdrive cleaning mode and my bedroom and bathroom and closets are all sparkly and the goodwill bag is full.
            It was a great day. And now……….it is time for some wine, dinner and Bunker!!!!

            • Aslansown

              That always feels good! (Could I pay you to come and do the same for me??) 😉

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Heck no……..my back and feet are killing me now.

              But my hubby fed me beets for dinner…………so I am happy now.

            • Aslansown

              Nice! 🙂

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I like to eat em and also make horror movie faces in the mirror…you know..bloody fangs and shit.

              God i need a life!

            • Aslansown

              That’s hilarious!! I hope I meet you some day!

            • Captain Howdy

              Beets? The only person who eats beets is Dwight Schrute.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Wrongo……….I love beets and so does Mr.Nuts.
              So There!
              And I also own a shiny red swingline stapler!!!
              for realz!

              BWAAHAAHAA

            • GlibWog

              OMG I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE BEETS.. Yummy ..

        • Captain Howdy

          I wonder if a scientologist invented the Baby Mop outfit?

          • GlibWog

            OMG Howdy.. I Hearsayed Baby Mop..hahahhahaha I had no idea..I thought it was a cute baby with fringe..

            HYSterical.. OK Now I need one of those!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Is this considered child labour?

          • Aslansown

            I need one of those!!

          • Candygram

            I’m sorry, but BabyMop is an AMAZING concept. Not just $cilons will be into it. Is there also a ToddlerMop? CatMop?

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Love you Glib xo

      • GlibWog

        Awwwwwwww PI.. hi honi.. I keep seeing your best friend orangy, but love seeing that avi! I love you too… xo

  • Deeana

    “Sexual improprieties and juvenile drug use”. Now wait a minute. People are living in squalor for years and scrubbing toilets with toothbrushes because they don’t want anyone else to find out about their sex life or smoking a joint/snorting a line at some earlier time in their life?
    This just doesn’t quite make sense to me. In addition, of the thousands over the years who have entered and left the Cof$, statistically not EVERYONE would have a prior history of “sexual improprieties” or “drug usage”.
    While I can see an agree that potential blackmail could be the motivation for keeping silent, somehow it just seems there is more. What is the more? I don’t know. A lingering part of the mind control?
    I do find it to be notable the number who join as posters, both here and on other forums, and describe themselves as having been “in” for some time – often years – and then “out” for a goodly amount of time before ever even seeking any information about the cult.
    I just seem to be having one of those disconnects in my thinking regarding this. To me, the “crimes” do not seem significant enough to engender the amount of fear described.
    Input? Anyone?

    • Ruby Grapefruit

      “The amount of fear described” is probably incomprehensible to someone who has never been in a cult or in a threatening environment (like a Jew in Nazi Germany, etc.).

    • Tory Christman

      Agreed. I know I stayed “in” for at least 10 years past when I realized it was awful, because ( and get this: This was NOT even “conscious”…subconsciously) I did not want to lose all of my friends, nor my family. I only actively, consciously faced *that* THE day before I escaped out. Up until then, it was a blur of confusion, fear, uncertainty, “who can I trust” etc.

      My “overts” or bad deeds being exposed was The LAST thing I cared about. But then I’d told most peeps my dark sekrets, due to watching my Dad’s friend (a BIG Celeb) being blackmailed, years ago. So from 14 on—I figured: “Just tell people ALL and if they don’t like you? Screw them! That IS who you are”. <<< Never dreaming I'd ever leave Scientology, but that paid off for me. 🙂

      • Candygram

        AWESOME answer. I love that you had that realization at 14. You grabbed that particular key to freedom and kept it safely tucked in your toolbox.

    • splog

      You are thinking logically – always a mistake when dealing with CoS 🙂

      It’s not a case of merely shagging someone you weren’t married to at the time, or puffing on a joint. That’s how a regular everyday person would view it, and then get on with life. But oh no, that’s not how it works inside CoS – people have been indoctrinated for years to “know” that their overts are monumental in significance, in fact they are so huge and so meaningful they require that you disclose them to everyone around, even complete strangers, and then do some monumental amends as part of Liability. It gets so bad that people at Rinder and Ingber’s level will just accept the punishment of living in swamps and running around poles for years because they supposedly caused an hours extra work for COB.

      It’s never about the overt itself, it’s always about the mindfuck in one’s head concerning the overt. To you, the consequence is out of all proportion to the act. To them, it’s completely warranted.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Another one of the disconnects I experienced in scientology is the way scientology gets a pass on the technology being applied to itself.

    An example of this would be the “Overt-Motivator Sequence” as Jon mentions. This is conceived as the reason something bad is happening to you is because you have done something bad, and this thing happening to you is what you “pulled in” to justify doing the bad thing you did prior.

    So, as a simple scenario: Bobby hits Jill for basically no reason. When asked why, Bobby says his “motivator” was that Jill hit him first. He invents it as a reason. Scientology twists this to: Something bad happens to Bobby, Bobby ‘knows’ this is because he must have done something bad sometime. The bad thing happening to Bobby is his “motivator” that he is “pulling in” or creating in some way for himself, to punish himself for some bad act some time and some where among his trillion’s of years of existence. So he goes looking for his own bad act to explain his troubles. If someone is being “critical” of another’s behavior, it must be because they have undisclosed ‘overts’.

    This is how it is applied on the ‘First Dynamic’, ‘self’.
    On the ‘Second Dynamic”, sex and family, it is similar: If Jill, Bobby’s wife is critical of Bobby, complaining about him not taking out the garbage, her criticalness is seen as evidence of some hidden bad thing Jill has done. Bobby not taking out the garbage is just a ‘motivator’ that Jill has pulled in or imagined.

    It also works on the “Third Dynamic”: If a company is complaining about unfair competition, it means they probably have engaged in the same thing, just nobody knows about it yet. If sales suddenly drop, then the scientology company should look for their own ethical failures. If the Psychs are trying to investigate scientology, then the Psychs must have present time, recent or whole track crimes they are covering up.

    Except with regard to scientology. Hubbard could criticize the Psychs with no one observing the fact this must mean he had undisclosed overts.

    Scientology as an organization can criticize the IRS, the FBI, Apostates and Anonymous without anyone in scientology figuring out that a big reason must be scientology must have undisclosed crimes of magnitude if it is “pulling in” so much legal heat and citizen outrage.

    So, that is the disconnect: The technology of conditions, overts, withholds, missed withholds, overt-motivator sequence, amends all are enforced on scientologists and applied to everything else in the universe, except when it’s scientology’s overts or crimes or it is itself being critical. It CANNOT bear to have it’s own philosophy and technology applied to itself. And goes into a rage when it is.

    And that itself is the phenomena of the “missed withhold”, where an undisclosed overt is almost found out.

    The Bunker, missing scientology’s withholds every day.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      “Scientology as an organization can criticize the IRS, the FBI, Apostates and Anonymous without anyone in scientology figuring out that a big reason must be scientology must have undisclosed crimes of magnitude if it is “pulling in” so much legal heat and citizen outrage.”

      This is an excellent point!

      • OTO

        That is an excellent point! Why is scio nattering about psychiatry, IRS . . . . IRS should answer with : “what crimes have you commited against us that we don’t know about?” and take them into session with “I’m not auditing you.”

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Or you could easily ask a Scientologist: “What crimes have you committed for me to harbour such rage towards you?”

    • OTO

      Overt motivator sequence has to do with finding some excuse for doing something to a person one wants to hurt. It is out sequence. You find something from your related past experience that may “excuse” your overt act against them.

  • Deimos

    I have just watched the new doctor Who episode.
    Hope springs eternal.

    • Observer

      We’re watching it right now.

      • Graham

        Three Doctors & three Tardises (Tardii?) all in one place. Bizarre. Then I come back here to ‘reality’ and this actually seems just as bizarre.

        • MO Mom

          But that was a GOOD bizarre.

          BTW, the rebroadcast tonight has a commentary from Smith and Tennant.

    • Robert Eckert

      Doctor Who premiered 50 years ago, the day after the JFK assassination. The producer thought he was cursed, since obviously nobody was going to pay attention to his show.

  • DamOTclese2

    Ha! I have to laugh. “Forgiveness” in the crime syndicate consists of writing a check to David Miscavige, and even then the violently insane psychopath doesn’t forgive you of anything.

    Look at that Scientology asshole Frank Ofman and that asshole Mike Rinder. Rinder’s involvement in the murder of Lisa McPherson is something he never apologized for, never walked in to the FBI field offices in Tampa to give any confessions or detailed information about, and Frank Ofman’s violent assault against Robert Minton is something that the violently insane criminal still has never apologized for.

    Scientology’s “TRs” are specifically designed to eliminate the core primate responses, “Bull Baiting” and “TR No Blink” are specifically designed to reduce or eliminate primate carnivore behavioral responses, and the concept of “forgiveness” is beat out of long-time customers.

    And yeah, I see the irony. I don’t forgive Mike Rinder one bit. That asshole needs to go to prison and pay for his crimes — financial as well as homicidal — before I’ll forgive him.

    • stillgrace2

      Ummm … did you mean Marty Rathbun’s involvement with Lisa’s death? Ultimately, it was Davey’s interference in her case (incompetence) that resulted in her death. Marty covered up Davey’s involvement by destroying evidence.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      I don’t believe Mike was involved in the Lisa situation, at least directly.

  • richelieu jr

    I was full of admiration for the Israeli break-aways, until being one of the people they actively try and shut up on Rinder’s site asking him why he ‘permits this sort of thing..’ Saying something like ‘free speech is one thing..’ Apparently disrespecting Ron’s memory with facts is quite another.

    Classic Scientologists accruing rights for themselves and shouting down and insulting everyone else. Disappointing.

  • DamOTclese2

    Also the concept of “forgiveness” is twisted in to lunacy inside of Scientology, as Jon details, yet also look at the consequences of that. The concept of atonement also does not exist, they have “make amends” which usually consists of being forced to commit projects like letter-writing to the editors, posting idiot lunacy on-line, anything to “strike a blow against the enemy” which is utterly foreign to the concept of atonement and making restitution that normal people in polite society think of.

    Carl Sagan in Daemon Haunted World noted that L. Ron Hubbard literally created written procedures that drive people insane, and the redefinition of words, the twisting of concepts, the “TRs” that Scientology inflicts upon its unwitting customers does exactly that.

    Scientology “finds the ruin” and makes it worse. People with standing emotional or mental difficulties walk in to Scientology and if they fall for the frauds they end up having their existing problems magnified and made extreme. That is how these crooks make their money, and it is all about taking money from the rubes, marks, suckers, and otherwise rational customers who fall for it.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    The overt motivator sequence explains it all very succinctly:

    1. If you confess your overts, we in the Church of Scientology forgive you.

    2. If you ever dare leave us, we motivate on it and thus promptly report all of your transgressions to your family, friends the police, and the internet.

    The Church of Scientology: Don’t you ever, ever, ever leave us! Don’t even think about it!

    http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/Strait2BJacket2B2528125292B252812529_zps29ab342c.jpg

    • Observer

      There’s nothing like a petulant ecclesiastical hatchet job!

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Even THINKING about it IS an OVERT! STOP READING! Readingness leads to thinkingness and therefor to overtingness. STOP!

      • Graham

        Also leads to exitingness and jokingness and degradingness!

      • Captain Howdy

        It also leads to a psych “Straightjacket”

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          That was a great flick!

          • Captain Howdy

            Another William Castle KLASSIC!

  • mook
    • DamOTclese2

      Awesome. I am annoyed that tax money was wasted once again throwing these Scientology criminals out, just like we have to do with Christanic/Islamic Creationists in our school systems.

  • DamOTclese2

    The Karmiel Center is just another PR hoax.

    Wut? Can’t be! Not from “The Most Ethical Religion On The Planet!” They would never lie, would they?! ‘Course not!

    Funny. The crooks pretend to open business offices all over the world, the insane psychopath dwarf himself trying to claim he’s “too busy opening new churches” around the world to commit RICO Predicate Acts against the wives of ex-Scientology ringleaders.

    Amusing. 🙂

  • DamOTclese2

    I could to the tent and could hear the music and merrymaking inside

    Seriously? People actually laughing? Maybe they handed out some cheap dope or bottles of nitrous oxide. Something. 🙂 I can’t imagine that any customers would be happy at this point.

    • Observer

      It’s totally genuine and theta fun!!!!! Just ask George Baillie!!!!!!!!!

      • DamOTclese2

        If they don’t smile and laugh, that gets noted in a book and gets brought up at the next “auditing” which will require more money to scrape off the invisible murdered space alien fragments that kept the customer from smiling and being happy. Yep!

        • Missionary Kid

          Just like North Korean audiences…

    • Great White Clam

      Nah. I think it’s a new TR.

    • Aslansown
      • DamOTclese2

        Wow. Love these photos! I wonder why the crime syndicate is allowing these to be sent around.

        • What can they do, haul everyone they know was there last night in for a sec-check? Ask everyone to check in their cell phones next time?

          Even if they did the latter, there would still be ways to gather information discreetly and quietly:

          http://image.dhgate.com/albu_196464582_00-1.0×0/2gb-button-spy-camera-mini-spy-style-button.jpg

          Oh, and BTW: For whoever in OSA is monitoring this thread:

          I’m not trying to suggest that any of your precious whales or parishioners do this kind of thing. Spying and monitoring people surreptitiously has no place in a civilized society like the kind Scientology claims to be trying to set up on this planet.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            “Spying and monitoring people surreptitiously has no place in a civilized society like the kind Scientology claims to be trying to set up on this planet.”

            Hee hee hee hee!

            No, and I would never suggest than any of your disaffected (or downright outraged) parishioners reading this would visit Brickhouse Security in search of micro cameras, either: http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/category/hidden+cameras/body+worn+cameras.do

      • Orglodyte

        Ah, it was the Cornerstone Ball, biggest contributors. It does look festive, actually. All fun and games until the flying monkeys appear …

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Or until Krusty’s lemurs appear…

      • Missionary Kid

        Some of those pictures must have been taken before dinner, because the set-ups were on the tables, and there weren’t many people there.

        • Aslansown

          Yeah — all the Sea Org-ers are standing there waiting to serve them. I wonder who the people are who are sitting at those tables at the front — must be the really big donors.

          • Missionary Kid

            Probably. More Sooper Seekrit crap.

            Thinking about it, probably there should be 4 different classes of $cientologists, instead of the 3 Lawrence Wright talks about. As I remember it, he separates $cientologists into 3 categories: the ordinary $cientologists, the celebrities, and the executives. I’d add a fourth, the sea org members.

            • Aslansown

              You’re right.

    • Pepsicat

      They spike the kool-aid, didn’t ya know?

    • Orglodyte

      They pretend to be happy. I’ve been to several big events and the enthusiasm was over-the-top in the seats closest to the front, slowly morphing into a scowling crossed-arms slump in the back rows.

      • Candygram

        Like Tom Cruise’s manic laugh?

        • Orglodyte

          Yes. I almost put the word “manic” in my comment. I have done it, in retrospect it feels like it was an attempt to overcome cognitive dissonance by effort of will. An excerpt from Hubbard, The Joy of Creating: “Force yourself to laugh and you’ll soon find
          something to laugh about. Wax enthusiastic and you’ll very soon feel so.”

          Seemed so sensible at the time, but in hindsight it seems a little sinister, another way in which Scientologists are trained to lie.

  • Imagica

    So I’m pretty sure if Scions took over it would be the movie Equilibrium, except it would star Tom Cruise instead of Christian Bale. “Not without incident.”

  • They find it difficult to apologize, because they think they’re right and I think I may be writer.

    • Captain Howdy

      Babs?

      • No. Neon,

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          You are funny!

          Edit: Oh hell, I just remembered that last time you were here.
          BAAAHAAAHAAA.
          YOU ARE FUNNY!

          • Captain Howdy

            Iway eckedchay outway erhay eviouspray ommentscay..owway!

    • OTO

      They find it heard to apologize because it falls along the range of “blame, shame and regret” which are around “body death” in the tone scale. In other words: it is “low tone.” And I’m not saying it is correct.

  • Semper Phi

    Hey — apologies aren’t entirely unknown between Scilons; in fact, it happened to me once! (I understand if my story is tl;dr, but it requires some background.)

    When I was at Flag, I needed a lot of “repair” auditing (to fix case problems, as opposed to advancing case progress). Lucky me–the actions I needed were on the list of requirements for people finishing the St Hill
    Special Briefing Course, to become Class VI auditors. So, I was in demand as a Briefing Course pc for a while. Unfortunately, when they finished the course, my auditors had to move on to their internships, where they would audit paying Flag public, not lowly OOTs like me. Therefore (although it is strictly against LRH policy to change auditors frequently), I was frequently reassigned to an auditor on the completions line-up for the Briefing Course.

    One of the transitions was very awkward. The proposed auditor was a guy with whom I had been good friends early in our time at Flag. He was an Englishman from Plymouth, a talented musician, very clever and funny, and we got along brilliantly. However, I got bogged in my training and he got way ahead of me. He was well liked by the OOT group and was enlisted by the Deputy Captain (the Flag administrator in charge of the OOT program) to motivate the rest of us to up our games and move more quickly through our training. One of the Deputy Captain’s “motivational” ideas turned out to be a particularly nasty episode of Shaming the Downstats, and he asked my friend to lead the charge. Unfortunately, I was one of the downstats who pulled in the public humiliation, which was made especially painful by the apparent enthusiasm with which my friend piled on the ridicule.

    Fast forward a year or so, and I am told that the next auditor they want to hand me off to is my erstwhile friend. I said, no, I did not feel comfortable being audited by him and explained why. That evening, he found me and we had a long conversation about what he had done, and he apologized. I believed it was a sincere apology, because I didn’t doubt that the Deputy Captain had put a lot of pressure on him to do what he did and I believed that he was truly sorry. It was such a relief just to hear him say that he knew he had hurt me (and others) and that he felt awful about it, so I chose to accept his apology even while I was completely aware that he never would have apologized if he had not needed me to be his pc so he could finish his course.

    Tl;dr — Yes, Scientologists will apologize to other Scientologists. If they can get something out of it.

    • Cat Daddy

      It’s good old fashioned Satanism, Levay is a pussy compared to that

      • Candygram

        Yeah, La Vey didn’t have the marketing.

        • Cat Daddy

          And entered the market after it was cornered

    • WhereIsSHE

      One of the most hurtful experiences we can have is one that involves a betrayal, and particularly coming from one with whom we have felt safe in the past.
      Betrayal is never easy to experience, even from an acquaintance.
      So when it rears it’s ugly head from the face of a formerly trusted entity, it is exponentially more difficult to endure.

      Though certainly not limited to the world of Scientology by any means, one cannot ignore the frequency–and built-in-NESS-with which is occurs between/among Scientologists AS PART OF THEIR “SPITIRUAL” TRAINING.
      Certainly, it would not be difficult to find a member of any given mainstream religion who had been terribly betrayed by another member of that same mainstream religion.
      But (mainly) NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PRACTICE OF WHICHEVER RELIGION.

      And yet, time and again, one can see how BETRAYAL is built into the very fabric of Scientology.
      Betrayal of FRIENDS.
      Betrayal of FAMILY.
      Betrayal of ONESELF.
      It is as insidious as it gets.

      I’m sorry you had that experience.
      I hope you have found more genuine friends outside of the cult.
      Sometimes we inadvertently hurt one another, and a true apology is the best balm for the wound.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        WIS, I was lucky enough to meet Semper Phi this year. And I can tell you this…
        She has come out of the hell hole of Scientology as a lovely, articulate and insightful person.
        She is someone you would enjoy spending time with……..at least I know I sure did.

        And yes…….an honest apology is something that is as soothing for the receiver as it is for the one giving it.

        • WhereIsSHE

          While I always adore your lightning-speed wit..
          I adore you even more for your humanity, Bury.
          Mwwwwwahhhhhh;*

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Back atcha baby!

      • Anonymous

        This is a very important point.

        Many of the worst aspects and behaviors (fair game, disconnection, RPF’s, etc.) associated with Scientology are COMMANDED by it’s written “scripture.”

        That is markedly different than an unintended outcome which no one anticipated.

    • GlibWog

      errrrrgh.. Yep.. such humiliation piled on by someone you trusted.. I am sorry.

      Happy that he apologized, but still.. sigh

    • Once_Born

      Perhaps the humiliation was arranged specifically to break up your friendship. If you became close, there was a risk that you would defend each other, rather than do as you were told – perhaps even start to question…

      Personal loyalty could stand in the way of conformity and obedience – so it is crushed. From the point of view of CofS the sooner you learn that you can trust no-one, and it is dangerous for you not to betray others at every opportunity, the better.

      In other words, divide and conquer.

      • Semper Phi

        Yes, “divide and conquer” is one of their essential control mechanisms. For example, the Knowledge Reports policy is all about divide and conquer, requiring even family members to report to the organization any “out points” they observe within their groups. In this case, though, my friendship wasn’t a factor; I doubt the Deputy Captain even knew about it. I was one of about a dozen people who were brought up in front of the group to serve as examples to the group. It was really more of a stocks and pillory episode than personal relationship-breaking.

  • Snippy_X

    The cover photo is amazing. What is it? Is this a photo from one of the Venera landers?

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Nov. 23: *refresh for image*

    The previous post today was yesterday’s numbers. These numbers are for today.

    Tony: US rank #13,052 – down 239 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #38,324 – up 1,332 from yesterday.

    Difference: 25,272 – 1,571 less than yesterday.

    • Mark

      Have they upped the Indian paid-for site-hits recently?

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Good question, Mark: actually the Indian visitors now only account for 3,8%.
        Canada – 10,3% and UK – 6,5%.
        (as of today).

        Mike Rinder’s blog is today at US rank #16,773.

        • Mark

          Odd. There must be something underhand going on somewhere else.

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            The people from India have wisened up…

            😉

          • GlibWog

            Mark.. You don’t think that COB has every SO member et al going to their sites… Stats baby..

  • Funnybroad

    Mark Bunker lives in Clearwater now, Davie, and he rides in helicopters too!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      heh, heh, heh.

      <3

      • Snippy_X

        BTN – is there a way I can contact you? Are you on WWP?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Yah. Anonolily…
          or how is this.?

          BurytheNuts @ Gmail . Com

          have at it!

          • Snippy_X

            OK I thought anonlily. going there thx 🙂

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          See WWP. same shit, diff day ., lol

    • Aslansown

      This is going to be good!

    • Cat Daddy
      • Tory Christman

        Knuckleheads “in”. And to think I was there that night, with OSA! They wanted me to go picket Mark Bunker’s home. I said “no! That’s a flat out lie. YOU are C R E A T I N G your own enemies doing this” and that was part of my waking up. OSA? You still are to this day. Way to go!

        • Cat Daddy

          You allready was an Anon befor you knew it Tory. This is what the cult did to Dan Murnan:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSojmUwD1n0

          • Tory Christman

            Amen, Cat Daddy, an thank you for saying that! I was the one who told “Dave” in “Magoo Dancing in Boston” (on YT if you haven’t seen it, one of my favs Mark has done with Bob Minton, Stacy Brooks, myself the THE Knuckleheads of the Boston Org): “There is an ARMY Out here of critics..and they’re only getting bigger”. That was in 2000. In 2008 when Anonymous arrived, it’s on video w/ some of them saying outside the Complex: “Magoo Predicted it!” LOL Oh baby! If I only knew. As I say, Anonymous arriving …for me…was like a woman and 2 friends struggling in an alley with some serious bullies. All of a sudden, around the corner comes 9,000 peeps…ready to GO. Ok, they aren’t *my* personal army—but it sure as Hell felt great to see um. 🙂

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I bet it felt like your personal army!
              Right ON!

            • Cat Daddy

              Right on sister

            • Tory Christman

              They sure kicked ass, like None of us could imagine. I have asked EVERY Ex-Scientologist I know, and critics who were around in 2000 or 2001 or 2: If s/one would give us 1 MILLION dollars if we could predict the future, could ANY of us possibly imagined Anonymous? We ALL say “NO WAY”. Truly—they were a dream come true, and even if they’re off on other things, they helped change the history of Scientology, forever. 🙂

            • Tory Christman

              Here’s one more fun story about back then: Ok, I spoke w/ Anonymous. Let’s just say they had some “different” plans. Mark made his video, and I spoke to them mentioning we HAD to do s/t very, very legal: How about a picket? So they said “meet at the Complex, we’ll see if we’re going to do it”. I met w/ a 21 year old guy and a few others (it’s on tape, somewhere). We walked around the complex..now get: Up until then our pickets consisted of 10..maybe 20 at most. So he said: “Ok, Feb 10—we’ll have 500 people here”. I thought “Yeah, sure kid”.

              Ok, so the say arrives, Mark comes to my house. We decide to take the subway to not have to worry about parking. So we get on the subway, and there are about 10 guys…all in all black suits and the V-Vendetta masks on. The ENTIRE subway looks FREAKED OUT.

              Mark and I hop on, I say: “It’s ok ladies and gentlemen….we’re going to be picketing the “church” of Scientology and they’re with us. They all seemed to calm down.

              Mark and I figured: “Ok, this IS Anonymous.
              We got to the Complex, walked a block or two w/ who we thought were

              Anonymous.
              As we rounded the corner, there were
              500 (FIVE HUNDRED) Peeps, all with picket signs, rockin’ out!

              We found out soon after that very day there were 9,000 people picketing

              around the world in EVERY Major City! ((Ok, they say 7,500 Plus
              back people all who helped out) so that has to = 9,000. Either way,
              it was A M A Z I N G.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Tory Christman

              So sooooooo honored to have been there at the 1st many amazing pickets w/ Anonymous!
              What a riot, over and over. One of my favorite stories was one Sunday night a Mom called me crying. I asked, “What’s up?” She told me: “My daughter has been on staff for years. We’ve all tried to get to her but nothing worked. TODAY she called me and said: “Mom–will you come pick me up? I realized I could be out there having fun like all of those people”. How great is that? 🙂

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              This is so awesome to hear Tory. It makes me feel better about last weekend in CW.
              I was PISSED.
              That the biggest event ever….had only four of us. FOUR of US..!!!
              I was sad and MAD.
              But I will not give up……EVER!

            • Tory Christman

              http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4dcig_road-to-february-10-2008-final-vers
              If you’ve never seen this: Please take a few minutes and watch this: It is the beginning
              of Anonymous vs C of $ and the 1st GIGANTIC picket around the world 🙂 Thank you to ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL who helped with this!

            • Donut

              Tory, it was your posts at Clambake that got me out on Anonymous pickets in the first place. Thanks for your inspiration, then and now. I love that you are such a kind and happy person xx.

            • Tory Christman

              Hey thank you, Donut! This is great news for me! I’m so, soooo happy I was able to help. And even more happy you joined Anonymous and kept at it. Thank you!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I hope those days return – there are many of us here would be part time Anony-meese if we could.

            • Cat Daddy

              They sure aren’t mine, but I am still there

              KKS

            • indie8million

              Have you guys seen Dan Murnane lately? I think he also has cancer or something. He’s overly thin and doesn’t exude much energy. He looks like he’s almost dead. He can say “it’s because I’ve been dealing with SPs” and he would be right. Too bad he hasn’t spotted the CORRECT SP; Mister David Miscavige and the people who forward his suppression. If Dan would only look and listen to what DM’s crimes are and see how he has made an error in whom to follow, I think he might recover. Good luck finding the exit from the rabbit hole, Dan. People out here would help you. If not, RIP.

            • GlibWog

              indie.. I had read somewhere.. God knows where.. ( I literally lurk and zoom around all night..)

              That there was a rumor that Dan had died, but he didn’t. Also his deteriorating mental and physical health has also been attributed to the blows he took to the head while Boxing.

              So Scn. Coupled with his boxing makes him a very tragic figure.

              If someone else has any contradicting comments I welcome them. It is just what I recall reading..

              There are soooooooo many Players in this Freakin cult We need a playbook I swear.

            • indie8million

              Hey Glib,

              I saw Dan about 3 or 4 months ago, ambulatory so, unless he finished the zombie rundown (joke) he’s still alive. I actually tried to say hello but he didn’t hear me.

              I’ve seen him around for a long time and I would think that there would be some evidence of the boxing injuries earlier. He was a pretty happy, funny guy before I started seeing him on these videos.

              If I may offer an educated guess, I think that the boxing story (though he may have done boxing, in fact) may be a shore story to cover up damage from his “ethics handlings.”

              He hasn’t been doing a very good job at “handling” people who are antago to Scn. I’m sure he’s been sent to cramming. You see his style change from “What are your crimes!” to, “Scientology helps people and you know that so why are you trying to stop it?” That looks like an effort to make his answers more politically correct to me.

              Now, what if he started asking questions after all of these interactions with “SPs”? What if he got a good dose of Black Dianetics/Reverse Dianetics to shut him up and then he was told just NOT to say anything when people talked to him.

              To me, that’s more what it looks like. Somebody should just start up a conversation with him about something else besides Scientology and see if they get the same treatment. If so, that’s a sad, sad thing for Dan. He was a sweet guy before all this BS.

            • GlibWog

              Thank you indie..I don’t doubt for a minute that Scn. would put the ” Boxing ” as their shore story.. sigh.. You know damn well that poor ghost of a man is beaten down…

              Spiritually, emotionally.. just a shell of his former self.. He is one of the Many Faces of this Dangerous Cult. My heart breaks for the man he was and could have been.

              Again.. Thank you indie.. just so pathetic.

            • indie8million

              You’re welcome. Just my thoughts on the matter. True or untrue. It just seems like what they would do to make it “Dan Murnan’s fault” and not theirs.

              They are quick to look through someone’s folder and “find out” why a person is messed up so that no one pins the tail on their ass.

              We all joke about it, for the relief, but I feel the same, Glib. These are people I know. Friends of mine. And they aren’t ready to see who the real SP is. Until Dan watches something like Scott Campbell’s story or really gets what happened with Lisa McPherson, he’ll never have that realization and will always falsely assign the source of his difficulties. He’ll never spot the true SP in his life = no relief. You folks who have left know what it’s like. Those aha moments where you’re shocked and relieved and pissed off all at the same time. I’m hoping he has one of those moments soon and regains his strength. And then comes out slugging for the right side next time.

              Yes, very sad and pathetic. I guess that’s why we all keep talking about it…so we can hope to reach a few more and help them out of the rabbit hole. I appreciate your empathy and kindness, GW.

            • GlibWog

              You know indie.. I have been thinking about Dan.. I’m trying to think about where I read that about the boxing story. I think it was a comment on one of the videos. I think you nailed it.

              Thank you.. Bury keeps telling us.. It’s NOT the people it’s the ” THING.” That is so true.

              And I would absolutely love Dan to come out swinging..

              I would love to just hold him… and bring him back to life. xo Baby

            • indie8million

              Oooh. I love the pic. 🙂 So true.

              You’re so right. The People, the public, are generally very well intentioned people. They are brainwashed with so many things. I wrote something on Rinder’s blog the other day about how Miscavige is using NLP and hypnosis techniques in the events and probably on his staff. I know this because I was talking with a person who is very well versed in both. They pointed out all the different ways that DM was using it in his speeches – from the emphatic manner of speaking to his hand gestures and HOW LOUD ALL THE EVENTS ARE!! HAHA

              Yes, I would too. Give him a love assist. 🙂

              If he only knew that he was standing up for the ANTI-KSW guy. He’d be angry, very angry.

              And if he only knew that people were talking about him out here and that they really care for his health and welfare. Maybe someone should make picket signs about Dan. Dan Murnan 10 years ago and now. And then tell him that we will use actual, LRH standard tech to help him if he comes out.

              Wouldn’t that be something if he just walked right out and walked away with the Indies and the Anons. One can only hope.

            • GlibWog

              Well feel free to download it.. Thank you..

              DM? ugh.. what a piece of work..

              I don’t think Dan has a clue how many people care about him. I would give anything to see him blow.. sigh.. I look into his eyes and just see a vulnerable bird with a broken wing.

              and rage builds up against the Evil, Dangerous Cult.

            • indie8million

              Let me find it and I’ll get it up here. It’s also on Mike Rinder’s blog. Search for NLP.

            • joan nieman

              This is so very sad. This man is just one of many. This is supposed to be a free country, I know there will always be evil in the world, but , damn it, we are going to pound out as much as we can to bring down this so called ‘religion’ . Somehow, I just thought of King Midas…yes, that story is very old but just by changing a name, it is a present day story.

            • GlibWog

              Absolutely Joanie.. sigh.. very sad.. and yep.. King Midas!

            • Robert Eckert

              It was his father who died. That was clarified here on this board (using info from ESMB) but I couldn’t hope to link back to where it is in the old comments.

            • GlibWog

              Yes I remember reading about his father. You are right.. I wouldn’t have a clue as to where I got the ” Boxer” comment Robert..

            • Robert Eckert

              That was in the same batch of comments, I think.

            • GlibWog

              Yeah.. I think you are right about that Robert. We’ll just say it was. Cause the more I think about it I’m sure now..

              I do remember someone saying that they heard that Dan died.. then it was confirmed that he was alive.. Then the Boxing story..

              and I took it at face value..

            • Tory Christman

              I have not seen him, but here’s his FB page: https://www.facebook.com/danmurnan
              The latest photos seem to be from about 1 year ago in 2012. I’d heard that rumor re cancer..I hope it is not true. True, he needs to spot the CORRECT SP: David_the wimp_Miscavige. Yes: Good luck and Bail while u still can! Way too many people die while “in” $cientology, way too young. Don’t die: LEAVE!

            • indie8million

              I hope not too, Tory. I don’t wish any of those people ill will. That would be like wishing a bunch of orphans a bad life because they are connected to a principal who beats them all the time. Maybe they should be smart enough to leave, but they aren’t yet because they are too afraid to look. I hope that they do start looking and investigating what’s really going on. This blog and Mike Rinder’s would be a good place to start…and your videos.

              Anyway, I digress. I hope it’s not true too. And what you say IS true. Too many people die way too young or off themselves to solve the problem.

              I hope he comes out and gets some standard auditing so that he can lose that tazered look. That’s what Black Dianetics does, after all. Puts the person in shock.

              I saw this pic on Dan’s page. Pretty ominous. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=458063960896922&set=a.458063924230259.93283.100000799657602&type=1&theater

          • Straight Diet of Kerbango

            That’s so sad.

        • Aslansown

          Did anybody give you a hard time for saying no?

          • Tory Christman

            Not really…they were desperate to slime Mark, and they got *I* was NOT going to do it. Plus I was in the right—they were lying about him. So no…no one gave me a hard time, but they knew I was pissed to even see they were doing such things.

            • Aslansown

              It seems like you were an anomaly in OSA…someone with a moral compass.

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          Wow, Tory – you had that figured out while you were still in?
          See, I think there are some people who cannot be ‘brainwashed’ entirely, ever. Your Dad’s spirit was in you. You had your “self” crying out loud and clear through the whole thing – she was just muffled for a while.
          Brava, my heroine!

          • Tory Christman

            Thanks so much, PI! You are most correct: A) I had my Dad’s courage and my Mom’s joy for living. B) I honestly believe Epilepsy helped save my life, ironically as I nearly DIED 2 times at their hands, due to they insisting I get off of my much needed medication. BUT—I think it MADE me create my own “bridge next to the Bridge”….and yes, thus was never TOTALLY brainwashed. People would ask: “You take medication? What policy are you using? I’d say (for 30 years) “If it isn’t true for you, it is NOT TRUE”. So….once that worked for one thing…it worked for many. 🙂

      • Snippy_X

        Classic vid – their intimidation tactics are so spiritual, hghguh, sorry, hairball there.

    • Tory Christman

      Oh how fun! And to think a week ago Mark was telling me: “Oh no…
      I’m going to lay very low. I won’t be anywhere near $cientology”. ROTFLOL!
      That’s like telling us a moth won’t be driven to a flame. SO glad you changed
      your mind, Markie! 🙂 Have fun!!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Ok, yeah right. sure, fine.

        How can he resist to be right in the thick of it right now………..!
        I can’t resist and I am nobody!!!!!

        • nottrue

          You are not a nobody. You kick ass.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Yeah, but a Public walked next to me/us and put her hand over her face…like we smelled bad.
            No Really! It happened. We laughed and said?……what? what was that?

            these poor people……what is wrong with them??????????

            • nottrue

              Sad

      • InterestedinCrazy

        I think you and Mark would make a cute couple. There, I said it! 🙂
        The video you posted recently of the two of you, Tory, was adorable.
        In my head you’re each others best friends!

  • Aslansown

    I’m watching a rerun of King of Queens from 2006 with a special guest star….Kirstie Alley! hee hee

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Please don’t shoot your TV. They are expensive and it only will feel excellent for a minute.

      • Aslansown

        Hahahaha!

    • NOLAGirl

      And Leah just got a recurring spot on a show called “The Exes” on TVLand…the same network that Kirstie has a new show coming out on. I know who I’d rather watch. 🙂

      • Aslansown

        Me too!

      • Chee Chalker

        I have a general policy not to watch any film/tv show that stars a known member of the Co$, however………Kirstie’s new show looks SO bad, I may have to make an exception.

  • Cat Daddy

    Security Checks

    Security Check Children

    Bulletin September 21, 1961

    The following is a processing check for use on children.

    Be sure the child can understand the question. Re phrase it so he or
    she can understand it. The first question is the most potent.
    Children’s Security Check Ages 6 – 12

    What has somebody told you not to tell?

    Have you ever decided you did not like some member of your family?

    Have you ever taken something belonging to somebody else and never
    given it back?

    Have you ever pretended to be sick (ill)?

    Have you ever made yourself sick (ill), or hurt yourself to make
    somebody sorry?

    Have you even wanted something every much, but never told anybody
    about it?

    Have you ever gotten yourself dirty on purpose?

    Have you ever refused to eat just to worry someone?

    Have you ever remembered something about yourself and not told
    anybody, because you thought they wouldn’t believe you, or be angry at
    you?

    Have you ever refused to obey an order from someone you should
    obey?

    Have you ever told another child something that wasn’t true, just
    to frighten or upset him?

    Have you ever bullied a smaller child?

    Have you ever deliberately got another child, or a grown-up, into
    trouble?

    Have you ever pestered grown people, who were trying to work?

    Have you ever been mean, or cruel, to an animal, bird or fish?

    Have you ever forgotten to give food or water to a pet entrusted to
    your care?

    Have you ever broken something belonging to someone else?

    Have you ever deliberately spoiled clothing of yours because you
    didn’t like it?

    Do you have a secret?

    Have you ever noticed something wrong with your body that you were
    afraid to tell anybody about?

    Have you ever done anything you were very much ashamed of?

    Is there anything about you your parents could not understand, even
    if you told them?

    Have you ever failed to finish your schoolwork on time?

    Have you ever flunked an examination at school?

    Have you ever deliberately given a teacher trouble?

    Have you ever tried to make others dislike some teacher?

    Have you ever tried to make another child unpopular?

    Have you ever broken, damaged, or taken, any school property?

    Have you ever lied to a teacher?

    Have you ever been late to school, or late to a class?

    Have you ever stayed away from school, when you could have gone??

    Have you ever cheated by copying someone else’s work, taking notes
    into an examination, or looking up answers in a book when you weren’t
    supposed to?

    Have you ever spoiled things for somebody?

    Who have you made guilty?

    Have you ever done something you shouldn’t when you were supposed
    to be in bed or asleep?

    Have you ever told others bad stories about someone?

    Have you ever tried to make others believe that your parents, or
    teachers, were cruel to you?

    Have you ever offered as an excuse for something you have done
    wrong that you are only a child, or that you haven’t grown up yet?

    Have you ever felt that your parents and home were too good for
    you?

    Have you ever felt that your parents and home weren’t good enough
    for you?

    Is there anything you should tell your parents, and never have?

    Have you ever done anything to some else’s body that you shouldn’t
    have?

    Have you ever told anyone that you did something, when you hadn’t
    really done it?

    Have you ever told anyone that you hadn’t done something which you
    really had done?

    Have you ever ganged up on another child and made fun of him
    because he was different from the rest of you?

    Have you ever made fun of another because of the way he looked?

    Have you ever decided never to talk to someone again?

    Have you ever made your parents or teachers work harder than they
    should?

    Have you ever decided that you were too bright, or too smart for
    the other kids?

    Have you ever annoyed an adult by something you did or said?

    Have you ever hurt a child?

    Have you ever mae a child cry?

    Have you ever made a child sulk?

    Have you ever kept another child from having something that really
    belonged to him?

    Have you ever found anything and failed to return it to its owner?

    Have you ever told stories about someone behind their back?

    Have you ever lied to escape blame?

    Have you ever not told the whole truth about something so as to
    protect someone?

    Have you ever felt ashamed of your parents?

    Have you ever disappointed your parents?

    Have you ever run away when you should have stayed?

    Have you ever felt sure your parents wouldn’t understand something
    that had happened in school, so you didn’t tell them?

    Have you ever not told teachers something about your family because
    they wouldn’t understand it?

    Have you ever failed to keep another child’s secret?

    Have you ever felt it was just no use talking to someone?

    Have you ever hurt someone you didn’t mean to?

    Have you ever been sloppy about your clothes or possessions?

    Have you ever cried when you shouldn’t have?

    Have you ever been a coward?

    Have you ever made too much fuss over a little hurt?

    Have you ever tried to make your parents believe you were doing
    better in school than you were?

    Have you ever told on anyone?

    Have you ever teased younger children?

    Have you ever mae a mess and not helped to clean it up?

    Have you ever broken or damaged something and never told anybody it
    was you who did it?

    Have you ever let someone else get punished for something you did?

    Have you ever cried till you got your own way?

    Have you ever decided “Someday, when I’m grown up, I’ll get even”?
    If so, with whom?

    Have you ever picked on someone smaller than yourself?

    Have you ever upset anyone by throwing a temper tantrum?

    Have you ever hurt anyone by telling them you didn’t love them any
    more?

    Have you ever made out that you were more badly damaged than you
    were in order to make someone stop picking on you?

    Have you ever pretended to like someone that you didn’t like in
    order to satisfy your parents?

    The Only Valid Security Check

    Policy Letter May 22, 1961 (Amends all existing data on
    Security Checks)

    Since a Security Check failure can compromise or injure a person’s
    position or economics, and because we are not moralists, it is
    better to be more positive on the subject of a Security Check failure,
    leaving no part of it up to judgment.

    The question of what constitutes a Security Check failure has now
    troubled enough people to make it necessary to lay down the following
    policies.

    A Security Check to be used for any organizational reason must be
    made on a Hubbard Communications Office World Wide form.

    There are only three ways a Security Checker may flunk any person.

    The Security Check may be considered flunked if there is
    no needle response of any kind to any question with meter
    sensitivity even at extreme high. Rise as a reaction is ignored
    throughout a Security Check. A rise is not a useful reaction.

    The Security Check may be considered flunked if any
    compromising or important question still persists in getting a
    consistent reaction (not a rise) even after the Security Checker has
    done his best to get the person being checked to clear it by answering
    truthfully.

    Refusal to be checked.

    Lie reaction failure may no longer be considered a flunk. Important
    questions always have enough charge on them to cause a reaction even on
    bad criminals and the reaction will continue consistently or
    sporadically if the person is still withholding information.

    The question of something reacting because of past life crimes is
    ruled out it, when a question fails to clear, the Security Checker adds
    “In this lifetime?” to or in the question and works on that question
    continuing to use that added phrase. Reactions by reason of past lives
    tend to drop out and clear if this is done.

    The task of the Security Checker is to carefully question and clear
    if possible changes of meter needle behaviour caused by the question.
    Plainly note any level that failed to clear. This fails the person.

    The lie reaction questions were originally used in Scientology only
    to study the needle pattern of the person being checked so that changes
    in it could then be judged in their rue light. Some preclears, for
    instance, get a slight reaction every time any question is asked.
    Some get a reaction only when there is heavy charge. Both can be
    Security Checked by studying the common pattern of the needle
    demonstrated in asking the Lie Reaction questions. The purpose of the
    Lie Reaction questions is returned to the original intention.

    A totally stuck needle can be freed by processing, or by getting off
    withholds. If a person is flunked by reason of 1. above, they require
    auditing before another check is taken, the auditing to be taken at the
    responsibility of the person being checked.

    All Security Check sheets of persons Security Checked should
    be forwarded to Saint Hill, complete with all markings and the
    reason why the question would not at first clear, if important, or the
    drop marked which would not clear and whether or not the person was
    passed or failed.

    Nothing in this Policy Letter changes the responsibility of the
    Director of Training in preventing Scientology from being taught to
    persons who would use it in violation of the Code of a Scientologists.

    In reprinting this check sheet leave all directions as part of every
    sheet.

    … The following statement should be read or quoted to the person
    being Security Checked:

    “We are about to begin a Security Check. We are not moralists. We are
    able to change people. We are not here to condemn them. while we cannot
    guarantee you that matters revealed in this check will be held forever
    secret, we can promise you faithfully that no part of nor any answer you
    make here will be given to the police or state. No Scientologist will
    ever bear witness against you in Court by reason of answers to this
    Security Check. This Security Check is exclusively for Scientology
    purposes. The only ways you can fail this Security Check is to refuse to
    take the test, to fail to answer its questions truthfully or if you are
    here knowingly to injure Scientology. The only penalty attached to
    failure of this check is processing or our refusal to employ you or
    issue you a certificate, and this will only happen if we find that you
    trying knowingly to injure Scientology. You can pass this test by (1)
    agreeing to take it, (2) answering each question truthfully and (3) by
    not being a member of a subversive group seeking to injure Scientology.

    The first questions are null questions to determine your reaction
    pattern.

    Are you sitting on a chair?

    Are you on the moon?

    Are all cats black?

    Am I an ostrich?

    Is this Earth?

    Have you ever drunk water?

    Are you holding up a tree?

    Am I an elephant?

    Are you a table?

    Is this a Security Check?

    Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name?

    Have you given me your right name?

    Are you here for a different purpose than you say?

    Have you ever stolen anything?

    Have you ever done any shoplifting?

    Have you ever forged a signature, cheque, or document?

    Have you ever blackmailed anybody?

    Have you ever been blackmailed?

    Have you ever cheated?

    Have you ever smuggled anything?

    Have you ever entered a country illegally?

    Have you ever been in prison?

    Have you ever tried to act normal?

    Have you ever indulged in drunkenness?

    Have you ever done any reckless driving?

    Have you ever hit and run with a car?

    Have you ever burglared any place?

    Are you guilty of anything?

    Have you ever embezzled money?

    Do you have a secret you are afraid I’ll find out?

    Have you ever assaulted anyone?

    Have you ever practised cannibalism?

    Have you ever been in jail?

    Have you ever told lies in Court?

    Have you ever been Court Martialed?

    Have you ever deserted from a military service?

    Have you ever illegally prevented conscription?

    Have you ever been a mutineer?

    Have you ever had anything to do with pornography?

    Have you ever committed arson?

    Have you ever been a drug addict?

    Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict?

    Have you ever peddled dope?

    Have you ever PDH’d anyone?

    Have you had any dealings with stolen goods?

    Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political
    reasons?

    Do you have a police record?

    Have you ever raped anyone or been raped?

    Have you ever been involved in an abortion?

    Have you ever committed adultery?

    Have you ever committed bigamy?

    Have you ever practised homosexuality?

    Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women?

    Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family?

    Have you ever been sexually unfaithful?

    Have you ever practiced sex with animals?

    Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually?

    Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practices?

    Have you ever practised sodomy?

    Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of
    your own sex?

    Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?

    Have you ever committed culpable homicide?

    Have you ever committed a justifiable crime?

    Have you ever bombed anything?

    Have you ever murdered anyone?

    Have you ever hidden a body?

    Have you ever attempted suicide?

    Have you ever kidnapped anyone?

    Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying?

    Have you ever acted as an informer?

    Have you ever betrayed anyone for money?

    Have you ever betrayed a trust?

    Have you ever betrayed an employer’s trust?

    Have you ever speculated with somebody else’s funds?

    Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person?

    Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or
    misdemeanor committed by another?

    Have you ever threatened anyone with a firearm?

    Have you ever been in illegal possession of firearms?

    Are my questions embarrassing?

    Have you ever been paid for giving evidence?

    Have you ever acted as an informer?

    Have you ever injured somebody’s reputation by knowingly spreading
    lies?

    Have you ever injured somebody by spading tales you knew were true?

    Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else?

    Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family?

    Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum?

    Have you ever been pronounced insane?

    Have you ever been a spy for an organization?

    Have you ever looted any place?

    Have you ever stolen from the armed forces?

    Have you ever conspired with anyone?

    Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a
    Communist?

    Have you practised fraud?

    Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?

    Are you hiding anything?

    Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol
    or drugs?

    Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money?

    Do you collect sexual objects?

    Have you ever ill-treated children?

    Have you ever practised sex with children?

    Have you ever practised masturbation?

    Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse?

    Have you ever sexually coerced a servant?

    Do you have any bastards?

    Are you withholding anything?

    Have you ever had any connection with a brothel?

    Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex?

    Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?

    Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure?

    Have you ever crippled a person?

    Have you ever been a spy for the police?

    Have you ever pretended a disability?

    Are you afraid of the police?

    Have you ever committed a misdemeanor?

    Have you ever committed a felony?

    Have you ever committed a capital offense?

    Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out?

    Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for?

    Have you ever criminally avoided taxes?

    Have you ever counterfeited money?

    Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or
    documents?

    Have you ever obtained money under false pretences?

    Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find
    out?

    How could you help yourself generally?

    What represents yourself?

    How could you help your family?

    What represents your family?

    How do you feel about sex?

    What represents (the Org (others (a group to you?

    How could you help (the Org? (others? (a group?

    How could you help mankind?

    Have you ever controlled people?

    How do you feel about being controlled?

    What is Communism?

    Do you feel Communism has some good points?

    Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any
    associated group?

    Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the
    Communist Party?

    Do you know any Communists personally?

    Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology?

    Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization?

    Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization?

    Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization?

    Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn’t have?

    Do you have any overts on L. Ron Hubbard?

    Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?

    Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard?

    Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology
    orgs?

    Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology?

    Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed?

    Have you knowingly planned not to do your job?

    Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard?

    Have you ever injured any Scientologist?

    Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists?

    Have you ever betrayed Scientology?

    Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology?

    Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization?

    Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology?

    Do you deserve to be helped by Scientology?

    Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon
    anyone?

    Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to
    be paid you?

    Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization?

    Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist?

    Are you upset about this Security Check?

    What question in this check shouldn’t I ask you again?

    Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure
    someone?

    What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this
    check?

    Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another?

    Are you upset about this Security Check?

    Security Check of Scientology Students

    Policy Letter, June 29, 1961

    Are you coming on this course in order to get away from someone or
    something?

    Are you here to get into something? to find out whether Scientology
    works? to prove that Scientology can’t help you?

    Are you coming on this course with the intention of killing off
    your body? with the intention of spinning? or going insane?

    Are you presently taking tranquilizers? drugs? or medication of any
    sort?

    Have you had sex with any other student? a staff member?

    Are you trying to get another student to have sex with you? or a
    staff member?

    Have you coughed or distracted others during a lecture?

    Have you criticised this course, or the organization, verbally or
    in writing to non-Scientologists?

    Have you been thinking unkind or critical, thoughts about your
    preclear? L. Ron Hubbard? your instructor? your auditor? other students?
    staff members?

    Are you in disagreement with any of the stable data of Scientology?

    Have you secretly violated any course rule, or regulation? passes
    on restricted data of Scientology to unauthorized persons? tried to give
    Scientology a bad name?

    Are you making any Scientologist guilty of anything?

    Have you done anything that would discredit Ron or Mary Sue
    Hubbard, or your instructors, by reason of their having trained you?

    Is there anything that L. Ron Hubbard, or your instructors should
    mistrust you for that you haven’t told them about?

    Are you in communication with someone who understands more about
    Scientology than L. Ron Hubbard?

    Is anyone hostile to Scientology assisting you financially on this
    course?

    Is anyone here counting on you to keep a secret for him?

    Have you any feeling of “injured innocence” at having been asked
    these questions?

    Have you been critical of the data or quality of the tapes?

    Have you ever written and then destroyed critical messages
    addressed to L. Ron Hubbard?

    How do you feel about these questions?

    Auditor’s Sec Check

    Policy Letter July 7, 1961

    Have you ever permitted a preclear to take control of the session?

    Have you ever startled a preclear when he was on a comm lag?

    Have you ever permitted a preclear to have secrets from you?

    Have you ever blamed the preclear for running over time?

    Have you ever blamed the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard
    for your preclear’s case not advancing?

    Have you ever failed to flatten a process when it was still biting?

    Have you ever jammed a preclear into a one-way flow and left him
    stuck there in it?

    Have you ever audited badly?

    Do you regard auditing as a punishment?

    Do you feel that auditing is too good for psychotics, or cripples
    or criminals?

    Have you ever been distressed because of a preclear’s physical or
    mental pain under auditing?

    Have you ever stolen from a preclear?

    Have you ever stolen another auditor’s preclear?

    Is there any question the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard
    should have asked you and hasn’t?

    Do you hope you don’t be found out?

    Have you ever avoided receiving auditing yourself?

    Have you ever mistrusted your E-Meter?

    Is there anything mysterious to you about an E-Meter?

    Have you ever let a preclear control you?

    Do you think selling auditing is really a swindle?

    Do you think there is anything wrong with having your own privacy
    invaded?

    Have you ever sought to prove that auditing would not work?

    Have you ever done anything to slow down L. Ron Hubbard’s research?

    Have you ever wasted auditing time?

    What do you wish you hadn’t done?

    Are Scientologists’, or Ron’s goals really false?

    Are you upset by this security check?

    on…

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      i fail…………..can i have a cookie?

    • Donut

      If this is the kind of shit scientology says to children, I’m kind of warming to the idea of silent birth.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m warming to the idea of a silent, drugless, colonoscopy for DM.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I am warming to a silent, but seriously drugged up colonoscopy for myself.

          • jeff

            The key is seriously drugged up. It’s fine. I’ve had 3 and fell asleep on the drugs. The preparation is worse. No food the whole day before, drink the mixture and stay near the bathroom.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            I had one. All the stress was for nothing. One bad Sunday afternoon prepping – and it wasn’t THAT bad – and then some great drugs and a very cute doctor. And a clean bill of health. Apparently I have the colon of a 30 year old.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              soon..obiwan…soon

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              The drugs are great. Trust. I don’t do drugs or alcohol and I truly enjoyed my day. 😉

            • Captain Howdy

              One of the ones I’ve had, they had to stop like half way through because i was screaming like a banshee, and they had given me the maximum amount of demerol and valium they legally could.. The other 2 were tolerable but unconformable..

            • sugarplumfairy

              Why were you even awake? Let ‘me put you out..

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I was out. Lovely. And such a dreamy afternoon following. Watched movies on cable all day. Felt just so clean and peaceful….
              Too bad they told me I don’t have to come back for ten years!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              thats my girl!!!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              I was awake for all 3.

            • sugarplumfairy

              You need a new gastroenterologist.. Yours is a sadist.. And also a masochist.. Nobody does them awake anymore..

            • Aslansown

              Next time you have to tell them what’s happened and that you need “the good stuff” — insist on having an anesthesiologist.

            • Captain Howdy

              Good stuff? You mean like fentanyl or dilaudid? Woo-Hoo.

            • Aslansown

              I don’t know what it was, but the nurses told me it was “the good stuff”! Versed and something else I think.

            • Aslansown

              Seeing spf’s post above — propofol was what I was on (along with versed I think, but I’m not sure). I think they said it was stronger than what the nurses were allowed to administer. (This was several years ago.) GOOD stuff!

            • My mother had to have her teeth worked on in the hospital because she needed to be knocked out before any work was done. Some people have different medical needs. Nothing to be ashamed of.

            • Captain Howdy

              I have a tolerance to opiates, but if you tell a doctor that, they roll their eyes.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Propofol.. Bet you don’t have a tolerance to that..

            • Captain Howdy

              Isn’t that what killed whacko jacko?

            • sugarplumfairy

              You’re not supposed to do it home.. He was an idiot and so was his doc.. The nurses will keep an eye on you.. We love rock stars..

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I had an operation a few years ago…I said, are you giving me the MJ drug? they said well.yeah………….I said………………AWESOME…Please dont kill me.
              And Here I AM!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              This is the last bit of off topic B.S I have to say. There’s a real problem in this country, contrary to what’s being reported, with doctors under prescribing pain medication. They’re all running scared of the DEA and afraid of being sued for MP..Plus some tend to morally judge their patients.

              http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2010/12/the_worst_kind_of_ham_sandwich.html

            • Bella Legosi

              When I got my carpel tunnel surgery they gave me a load of morphine and sodium pent. After the knock out doc ask if I talked in my sleep. I told him I did. Why? “Well, we thought you were out so we asked some questions. You responded to every one, but made NO sense! We had to give you a little more to make sure.” Needless to say he gave me, “You’re so busted!” look and my hand doc never refilled the pain script!

              Have fun with Mike’s “Sleep Aid”! Don’t let the nurses “bad touch” you! Unless your a freak like that! 😛

            • Then find a G-I specialist who doesn’t roll their eyes.

              Actually, if you tell them you have a past history of heavy drinking, they’re more likely to believe that you have a great tolerance to drugs.

              After my father was operated on to get a pacemaker implanted into his chest, the cardiologist asked my stepmother and I if he was a heavy drinker. Surprised, she said no. He then stated that it took a lot of anesthetic to put him under, and I of course didn’t mention the fact that he used to drink like a fish during his college days and afterwards for a while.

              She’s one of those people who insists on getting the Christmas decorations up on the Friday after Thanksgiving. Can you tell that they deserve each other?

          • Missionary Kid

            😉

          • Captain Howdy

            I was suppose to have surgery on my arm last Tuesday and even the lure of good drugs wasn’t enough. I wussed out and bailed.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Hang in, Capt.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Do you still have that lump? God damn it Howdy…have the surgery.
              Do NOT make me come up there…………BEcause YOU KNOW, I WILL!!!!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              What Bury said. ^^^

            • Captain Howdy

              I think I’m persona non grata at the mass general surgical clinic after this. It’s the second time I’ve canceled. Oh well, c’est le guerre!.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Mass General is the best hospital! It was so great to my Dad when he had his heart attack. And he always judged hospitals by the food and service, as if they were resorts, and would say, “Mass General has the best service.”

            • Captain Howdy

              Mass General is one of the best…if your last name is Kennedy or Kerry. I’ve had some very less than satisfactory experiences there in the last 2 years. I’ve had this lump for a year and a half and I’ve had 2 ultra sounds, 2 cat scans, 3 MRI’s and they still can’t tell me what it is. They just say it’s probably a fatty tumor.. Great.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Get it fixed or I am coming to live with you.
              Trust me……..I am really annoying. You wont like it much.!!
              Although we do share some icky crap……………..
              either way…………

              DO NOT MAKE ME COME OVER THERE!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              Alright, alright I will. Honest injun, cross my heart and hope to die.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I* don’t trust you………..so i am going to STALK yer ass until i am satisfied!

            • GlibWog

              Cause we care bout ya Captain.. and seriously.. Bury will Stalk you..

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              seriously…he thinks i kid……………..NOT!!!

            • GlibWog

              WORD!

            • sugarplumfairy

              That’s probably a really good thing, Cap’n.. If it’s not painful or grossing you out or getting big enough to look like a second head, you may not have to have it removed..

            • Captain Howdy

              It’s not painful but it is unconformable and it’s grown somewhat. Currently it’s the size of half a big lemon (sideways)

            • sugarplumfairy

              Get it out.. It’ll be worth it.. You’ll feel sooo much better after..

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks. Alright, I’ve gotten my attention quota for the evening. Time too rock. Later.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              HAVE IT REMOVED before i remove your NADS!

            • Captain Howdy

              I’M OUTTA HERE!

            • Bella Legosi

              My dad just found out he has some tumors growing on his liver and pancreas. He didn’t really want to tell me or my sibs, but his doc damn near cried when she called in his ultrasound results. He got MRI done last week. He asked her if she could have a heart and give him more then 5 valume and she said, “No…..I don’t know if you’ll do something to yourself!” Then he told her how much pain he was in and taking 60/6000mg a day is prolly what is killing him and she says, “Well, you can’t have Oxy. The state won’t let me prescribe it. Ill see if there is a higher dose of hydrocodone with less tylonol. Oh you took most of them already? Yeah, sorry! I don’t want to get it from Pharmacy Board so I will see you next week!” That doc is lucky I don’t know who she is!

            • GlibWog

              Shit Bella.. Damn.. I am so sorry.. Your poor dad……. Damn it..

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeeeeah this whole weekend kinda sucks a butt at the moment. When it rains, it pours. The good news is that MRI wasn’t as bad as his doc thought. So there is that.

            • GlibWog

              That’s good honey.. but doesn’t take his pain away, huh? sigh

            • Bella Legosi

              And thank you Glib!
              *hugs*

            • GlibWog

              Aww you are a caring daughter.. it hurts to see someone you love in so much pain..I know…….. ((HUGS)))

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Owy
              !!!

            • Captain Howdy
            • Bella Legosi

              Thanks. He knows the doc is really blowing smoke up is ass with regards to meds. She just doesn’t want to prescribe. That is becoming the norm for most dox. Little do they know that by being assholes with people who genuinely need meds only drives those people to not trust them and turn to the black market. When you are on contract with a Doc you really can’t speak your mind. You are beholden to their attitude and mood. You don’t know how many people I know (or care for) whose Docs use pulling their narcs away as an intimidation tactic. It really is sad.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Get your ass back on the list or I will come up there. And YOU really don’t want that. Seriously. I am super annoying!
              You have NO idea~~~~!

            • GlibWog

              She is.. She really, really is.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And Baby knows!!! she really knows!

            • GlibWog

              UH YEAH! I KNOW EVERY SQUARE INCH OF YOUR BODY..

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’ll come with you.. I’ll be your backup..

            • Captain Howdy

              Oh shit.

            • GlibWog

              OH Gawwwwwwwwd .. You know she will Howdy.. HAVE THE SURGERY!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Fuck YaH!

              I got air miles…i will kick his ASS!

            • GlibWog

              Sneak up on him with your Guy Fawkes Mask Bury..hahaha

          • I had one of those. Woke up in the middle of it, and felt it all. Ghastly. No point to the drugs if you can’t stay dead to the world.

    • Missionary Kid

      That was part of the type of questions asked of Suri in The TomKat Project (in much shorter form), in her supposed auditing.

      It’s not wonder Katie blew, if that actually took place.

    • Candygram

      Is answering “yes” to everything a fail?

    • InterestedinCrazy

      I feel like being sick. The children’s ones…omg!

  • Neil deGrasse Tysson summed it up the best. ” To be scientifically literate, is to empower yourself to know when someone else is full of bullshit.”

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      I sleep better at night now that Neil deGrasse Tysson has reassured me that Zombies are a physical impossibility.
      I don’t think he’s weighed in on Vampires, though! :-0!!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I rather like that Chalmer’s tells me that they are….

        http://consc.net/zombies.html

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          He left out Scientology Zombies!

      • Captain Howdy
        • Jo

          Thanks for the allthingszombie.com link.

      • No. Vampires are always with us. They suck you dry as they, lie supine on your sofa like the deadbeats, they are. I’d drive the remote through one’s heart, except I’d have to replace the batteries.

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          They abound in Clearwater and Hollywood! Right alongside the Zombies! 😉

          • Semper Phi

            The vampires are the registrars.

      • Missionary Kid

        I don’t need Neil to tell me there’s no such thing as Zombies, or Vampires, or Succubi or all those imaginary creatures like thetans or OT8s or clear. I have great joy in not worrying about them. On the other hand, I worry about the poor people who are subjected to Co$, DM, and all the Hubbardian fakery, and I will sleep much better when the cult implodes.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

  • PoisonIvyHerself

    So, let’s talk about “Clearing the Planet.” I hope some day Tony will host a round-table on this with Jon Atack, Jeff Hawkins, Claire Headley, and others. This goal, it seems, is still the Holy Grail for Indies.

    What does it mean, exactly? From what I understand, Scientologists’ have the grand goal of a world without war, without illness, without insanity – in which everyone and his brother is totally free from his or her ‘reactive mind’ (never mind that the ‘reactive mind’ is an unproven concept and an idea that’s as full of holes as a fishnet stocking…)

    But let us give everyone the benefit of the doubt and say that yes, Scientologists long for a “Cleared Planet.” A world in which Tom Cruise can show all his friends the history books that talk about PTS’s and SP’s and they all laugh charmingly and say, “SP’s? They really existed? Like dragons?” (Add tinkly laughter here.)

    So exactly what are Scientologists DOING to “Clear the Planet”?

    This is what I think of that. It may be tl;dr for some, so feel free to skip down to pithier comments:

    I’m a writer. I often make my living as one, or at least partly as one. I was born one. Perhaps there are other fiction writers here as well. Then you may be familiar with the literary term, “The MacGuffin.” It’s been around a while, though if you’re a Hollywood type, you most likely encountered it first in Robert McKee or Syd Field’s screenwriting course. The one every fledgingly executive takes on a weekend and graduates believing he or she knows more about storytelling that writers who do it every day their whole life long.

    But I digress. Here’s a definition of “MacGuffin” from Wikipedia, because I’m lazy tonight:
    “In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin or maguffin) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist pursues, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so important. The specific nature of a MacGuffin is typically unimportant to the overall plot. The most common type of MacGuffin is an object, place or person. However, a MacGuffin can sometimes take a more abstract form, such as money, victory, glory, survival, power, love, or even something that is entirely unexplained, as long as it strongly motivates key characters within the structure of the plot.

    The MacGuffin technique is common in films, especially thrillers. Usually the MacGuffin is the central focus of the film in the first act, and then declines in importance as the struggles and motivations of characters play out. It may come back into play at the climax of the story, but sometimes the MacGuffin is actually forgotten by the end of the story. Multiple MacGuffins are sometimes derisively referred to as plot coupons.”

    For film buffs, McKee always gives the example of the letters of transit in Casablanca as the MacGuffin of the film. They mean very little to the story but they serve as something for the protagonists to chase to keep the plot moving forward.

    I believe that “Clearing the Planet” is the “MacGuffin” of Scientology. It’s why they have all the IAS and New Year’s Eve events and raise all the funds. It’s why the Sea Orgers and staff work themselves to sick or to death (too often, literally on both accounts) for under $50 a week. It’s why intelligent people submit to subhuman RPF treatment even though they know they’ve done nothing wrong; it’s why “top executives” are spending YEARS in The Hole, confessing their sins to David Miscavige.

    But how does the MacGuffin work in the plot? Like every fictional MacGuffin, it’s never really explained, is it? It’s never made clear exactly how a public spending thousands of hours in coursework, auditing and sec checks and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars is “Clearing the Planet.” It’s never spelled out how disconnecting from one’s children or aging parents, or ‘Fair Gaming’ a critic, is contributing to a “world without insanity” (in fact, such actions are literally spelled out as intending to CREATE insanity in the victim!).

    The MacGuffin is just that – something to get the protagonists on the plot treadmill, to be brought out again whenever the forward motion of the story needs a little goosing.

    But it really doesn’t matter to the big picture of the story.

    Does any fan of Casablanca really remember anything about the “letters of transit”? No. They remember “Play it, Sam;”, “We’ll always have Paris,” and “Louie, this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.”

    Just so in Scientology. No one will remember “Clearing the Planet,” because it’s a ruse, a plastic carrot, an imaginary friend. They’ll remember the lost years, the empty bank accounts, the shattered families, the horror of the harassed.

    The planet will never be “Cleared” because it was never intended to be.

    (And if LRH had any dreams of a “Cleared Planet,” it was only as a megalomaniac dreams…a planet cleared of all who refuse to bow down to him.)

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      bravo PI

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Thanks. I’m just really reeling from SoS’s anti-mammography bullshit and had to vent. That is so damn dangerous. He has no right. I lost my Mom. I was really young and I lost her and mammography would have saved her. How many Moms have been saved because of mammograms? Losing my Mom changed me forever. I never got to be an adult with a Mom. There are millions of young men and women out there today, enjoying their Moms as they grow old BECAUSE of mammography. Getting to be grownups with their Moms; having their Moms meet their grandchildren; laughing with their Moms into their 90’s. What the hell right does SoS have to try and take that away from them?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Hugs PI. My mom had breast cancer too. She died from a stroke, but the BC took its own toll in those last chaotic years.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            My Mom found a lump 7 years before she died. I was barely a teen. Did nothing. Denial, fear, a sense of over-responsibility for the family, not wanting to freak out my Dad whose 2 sisters died in their 40’s from the disease (and his mother in her 60’s), probably the denial-friendly help of nightly G&T’s…and of course the end was inevitable. Doctor told me after it was a slow-growing, non-aggressive cancer that would’ve been easily treatable, even in the 80’s. Of course by the time it was obvious, it was too late.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I am so sorry PI. Really.
              it is amazing what has changed in the last many years. But still.

            • SandiCorrena

              I remember when knowing someone who “survived” cancer was an anomaly – now it’s hard not to know survivors; unfortunately we still know all too many who didn’t make it but it is an improving statistic thanks to medicine and real science.

            • Tory Christman

              Me too, PI; Soooo sorry to hear this. The “it was too late” is So common. For all of us, in honor of your Mum and the thousands who died for similar reasons: Get Checked!
              And make sure to celebrate her life, PI 🙂

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I do – the crusader for justice in me is 100% her!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              yep, the math is going in the right direction!
              Cheers to that!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              xo Bury xo

            • GlibWog

              My heart breaks for you and your family.. sigh.. (((HUGS))) to all who have had to suffer through this horrible disease known as Cancer.

          • SandiCorrena

            sigh….my mom too; she was 58; within 6 years I was diagnosed as well – when she was being wheeled into her mastectomy her surgeon told me to get my #$$ to mammography-the orders were waiting for me; I did like clockwork every year there after for her “birthday” present

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I am glad you did. I am glad you are a survivor.
              This shit sucks so bad.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I hate ’em but I do them. They work. They save lives. SoS has lost someone who was at least a little sympathetic to his plight with that play downthread.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I hate em too. No woman likes her breast turned into a fucking pancake. It Sucks………but
              we do what we must……….

            • SandiCorrena

              they do SUCK; especially the diagnostic ones….gratefully women are tough enough to take it!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              We women are so f’ing tough.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’d like to see SOS have his balls subjected to a mammogram treatment. Fuck him.
              Thank you P.I. (((HUGS!)))

        • joan nieman

          SOS hasn’t a clue, that’s why Poison…don’t give him the honor of your thoughts.

    • Semper Phi

      Wow, PI, that is really insightful and helpful. Thanks!

    • GlibWog

      First I had to Hearsay tl;dr then I remembered ..uh yes too long didn’t read..

      2nd You are an excellent writer PI I thoroughly enjoy your thought evoking post.

      Damn.. Every Scn. should read this. EVERY. Thank you for sharing..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        you have read her last book?
        if not, email me and I will hook u up!

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          Awwww! 😉 Thanks Bury! May be some exciting news about the book soon!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            COOL!!!

          • stateofcircle

            I want in on this!

            • joan nieman

              I want in too!!

    • Donut

      Great post. I’ve never understood the whole “clearing the planet” thing either. It only makes sense a an impossible goal, useful for fundraising like a Superpower Building that never gets finished. Hubbard played fast and loose with logic but clearing the planet makes about as much sense as Santa Clause visiting every household on the planet.

      • Cece

        Verrrrry funnny!
        Let’s send this one out!

      • GlibWog

        I still don’t know how Santa does that.. hmmmm

    • Cece
      • Cece

        We were told/taught that News Reports lie. That is sooooo so not true!
        OMG!

    • Sibs

      A great MacGuffin explanation that fits too:

      “You may be wondering where the term originated. It might be a Scottish name, taken from a story about two men in a train. One man says, ‘What’s that package up there in the baggage rack?’
      And the other answers, ‘Oh, that’s a MacGuffin.’
      The first one asks, ‘What’s a MacGuffin?’
      ‘Well,’ the other man says, ‘it’s an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish Highlands.’
      The first man says, ‘But there are no lions in the Scottish Highlands,’ and the other one answers, ‘Well then, that’s no MacGuffin!’ So you see that a MacGuffin is actually nothing at all.”
      – Alfred Hitchcock, Hitchcock/Truffaut p. 138

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Bravo, Sibs, for quoting Hitch!

        • Sibs

          One of my favorite non-fiction film books that I read outside of school! (along with Pictures at a Revolution by Mark Harris)

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            I also recommend “The Dark Side of Genius”…though it’s now been made into two mediocre Hitchcock-based movies…

          • GlibWog

            Sibs.. I keep forgetting to ask you who is that in your avi? I should know.. but don’t..I love it..

            • Sibs

              Leslie Caron in An American In Paris. The countryside vignette in the ballet sequence, when she’s dancing with Gene Kelly. That ballet is like yummy cake for the eyes, so colorful and dynamic. And Gershwin music.

            • GlibWog

              I knew it.. I knew it.. I kept going to Shirley McClain.. I am a Musical NUT case..especially the classics.

              One of my favorite scenes from Oklahoma is the Beautiful ballet..

            • joan nieman

              …or the waltz in My Fair Lady!

            • GlibWog

              Well, Missy.. You have won my heart yet again.. I just watched that yesterday.. Absolutely love that movie.. OMG.. Now I’ll be singing.. ” I could have Danced all night in my head all night.. ”

              Thanks alot Joanie! ha

            • Casabeca

              So small on mobile I couldn’t tell.
              Love that movie!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              One of my late father’s favorite.

          • MaxSpaceman

            That’s a good’n! As it conveys what happened in filmed entertainment, with those projects, that turned the course in a way of motion pictures. Good to recall that, thanks!

        • joan nieman

          That was an excellent analogy Poison, I so enjoyed it.

    • Missionary Kid

      Damn. That’s well put.
      Clearing the Planet: The MacGuffin of $cientology.
      Thank you, P.I!!!!

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Will it make your “things said about” list? 😉

        • Missionary Kid

          Since I took your idea and ran with it, can I have your permission to put it there.
          I’m not being falsely modest, but your post was so inspiring, I want to credit you for it.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            So touched, so honored MK!!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve adopted a policy of only putting someone’s name to a saying if they post under their real name, but that one will go as said by your avatar. I will also put an asterisk to it and refer it to your post.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              That’s class. We struggling authors appreciate attribution, especially in this age of rampant internet piracy!

            • Missionary Kid

              Most of my lists are at http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/ Yours is the 199th individual statement in the category of Things Said about Scientology, and the only one with an asterist and reference.

            • Tory Christman

              Bingo! There ya go 🙂 Thanks, MK. (And I know you made this post BEFORE I asked….still fun LOL.

            • Missionary Kid

              There’s not only a lot of joking and degrading, but a hell of a lot of truth, especially in the different “Things said about” lists. Sadly, some of those truths are the result of a lot of pain and suffering by a lot of people. I’m only the collector. I have added a few items, but the best are from spontaneous comments by people in the Bunker.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Even on the fringe, on the fringe of the internet !

            • Tory Christman

              Where’s this list, MK? Is it sekret…or can we all see it? 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve anchored just about all of my lists in the comments section at http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/ Set Disqus to Newest.

              You’ll see why I don’t put them in everyday comments: They take up so much room. There are even more, smaller lists to them when you click the “see more” button on them. I update them by editing them, so when you go back and look at them, you’re seeing the latest updates.

              I go back and update them periodically.

            • Tory Christman

              I checked, I don’t see: “Tick tock, Tick Tock: Time is on *our* side :)”
              Does that not fit any category? I guess I just think it’s an excellent fact
              that needs to be posted and re-posted. Up to you 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              Tory, I was so familiar with the saying that I neglected to put it in. Mea Culpa.

              Because you post with your real name, you’re getting it with your name associated with it. It has the honor, as well, of being the 200th one on the list of Things Said about Scientology. It’s only fitting. If you refresh the page, you’ll see it in alphabetical order. I can’t include the quotation marks, because then the program I use puts it at the very beginning, although I may move it there, because it’s so iconic.

              The phrase makes me think of the the Chamber’s Brothers’ Time Has Come Today starting about 2:30, with the drummer beating out the metronome sound. I hear it as your “Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

            • Tory Christman

              WOW>>>>>>>>>>>fantastic, Missionary Kid! Thank you…I am honored 🙂
              And 200th? Perfect for me. (I’m big on even #s). Tick Tock, Tick Tock: Time is on *our* side!
              That’s the quote in full 🙂 And guess what? It’s true! I started saying that WAY back pre-Anonymous when there were only 4-5 peeps speaking out, using their names, myself being one. OSA was massively doing Fair Game on me…so I’d remind “Dave”…no matter what you do, Karma WILL be there, and no doubt it will come when you least expect it.
              Tick tock, Tick Tock…Time IS on *our* side!
              So when Tom Cruise flipped on O’s couch—then Matt lower, I went BINGO!
              KARMA HAS HIT 🙂 Thank you, MK!!

            • Tory Christman

              And right after that, Inside Edition called me the next day, CNN after, and on and on.
              Oh what a ride that was. Speaking of media, when John Travolta’s son died tragically, I made a video: A Message to John Travolta…basically telling him it was TIME for he to step up to the plate!
              I had 36 calls the next day—all radio and some TV.
              I did each interview …am on way to work, lunch at work, pm after work.
              To me it was like a small snow ball building. I felt IF we kept it going…eventually it
              would TAKE OFF.
              And boy has it evvvvvvvvvvvvvahhhhhhhhhhhhh 🙂
              Love to ALL here 🙂
              Tory/Magoo

            • Missionary Kid

              As much as $cientologists have revered DM, TC, JT, Krusty, LRH, and the usual cast of characters, and are convinced that the golden words and ideas of LRH will convince other people to become $cientologists, it is those same words and ideas exposed to the light of day that have been doing more to bring about the decline and fall of Scientology than anything else.

            • GlibWog

              Tory.. We love it when you post.. It makes us all feel included in ” Our Mission..” Just keep coming back to cheer us on.. Woo Hoo.. We know you are a huge fan of TonyOs…and he is of you too of course.

            • Tory Christman

              Hey thank you, Baby—right? Ok, I will 🙂 I’m happy for your kind welcome 🙂

            • Tory Christman

              MK: Can you tell me where it is? What subject is it under? I don’t see any numbers, at all.
              Is it on another page? Fill me in, please. 🙂

            • Tory Christman

              “Tick tock, Tick Tock: Time is on *our* side. – Tory Christman.”
              Woooooohoooooo! **So** proud. Bows down, thank you, Missionary Kid 🙂 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              No, THANK YOU.

              I forgot to give the URL for the Chambers Brothers Time Has Come Today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsBwBct0_5U the tick tock starts at 2:30

            • Tory Christman

              Ah! Even better, MK as this is “Time has come today”
              And mine is: TT TT…
              Time is on *our* side 🙂 And it is, too!

            • Missionary Kid

              I spent enough time in college after getting out of the service listening to that song after smoking dope, so it stuck with me. The drum sticks hitting each other and slowing down. It’s implanted in my mind, and now, it’s associated with tick tock.

            • aquaclara

              Catching up on yesterday’s posts, and just wanted to thank you, Tory. What a huge inspiration you are to so many-journalists, exes, never-ins, lurkers and HOPEFULLY STILL INs who are reading, viewing and listening to your messages and feeling like it’s time for a change.

            • Aslansown

              Oh my gosh. Those lists are amazing!

            • Missionary Kid

              The credit all goes to the wonderful, intelligent, thoughtful Bunkaroos.

    • Noni Mause

      What an interesting analysis. Yes, a mcguffin, I think you’re right. Clearing the planet. The aim is just so patently absurd. How are you going to clear the whole planet when 5/6ths of it lives in abject poverty – none of them can afford auditing but it’s just such an emotive rallying cry.

      I wonder if this could assist JPC’s aim of figuring out new ways of destabilizing things? A full court press on the inconsistencies in the mcguffin, er, religious goal might be quite difficult for them to handle.

      • Cece

        But but but we actually THOUGHT that!!

        • GlibWog

          Ahhh music to my ears Cece..

          Key word Thought.. NOT think.. but Thought.. Love the past tense! Baby

          • Cece

            Yah just stories now. But must be shared. I look forward to the ‘not must’ band.
            Cece

            • GlibWog

              Me too.. : )

      • Casabeca

        I love how Marc Headley just does a little math on the “clearing” idea and it just snaps everyone out of that reverie. Or at least that’s how i see it in my mind ;).

    • Cece

      Oh you said it so beautifully! I didn’t even have to get out my dictionary. Thx Ivy. 🙂 Cece

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I love the AV.

        • Cece

          Sorry, the AV?

          • Robert Eckert

            Short for “avatar”: she loves your kitty.

            • Cece

              Funny! Thank you for helping me make sense out of nonsense. I’ve been to serious, Cece

            • SandiCorrena

              And thank you for not saying she loves your —–! Salute!!

            • GlibWog

              I was holding my breath Sandi.. and you just know Robert was thinking of going in that direction!

              We all know you Robert Eckert! We got your number Mr.

            • Robert Eckert

              Moi?

            • GlibWog

              VOUS !

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Your cute kitty.

            • Cece

              I thought maybe u meant Antelope Valley. That’s where I live. That kitty is Tigger.
              When I first moved from the ‘Complex’ (PAC), I bought a property in Silver Lake with so many rats the LA County guy had left a case (CASE) of poison in the cellar. This was 1999 or so.
              I figured I needed a cat so sent off an email to my friends. Well what do you know but a litter had just been born in the church parking lot there on Fountain. Bobby Aldrich helped with that one.
              We had to keep Tigger under a milk crate with a few bricks on top for a while. Did not want any hands on her! Humans were big blobs you scratch and bit.
              Ya know – I may have ended up just like that. Eating rats. She settled down and was LA Silver Lake best friend.
              I think she is still alive. Our dog is not. Babble …..

    • Great White Clam

      Say it again, PI(H). I really liked the “plastic carrot” imagery.

    • Espiando

      The thing is, Clearing the Planet is a MacGuffin. The problem is that it isn’t and has never been a dramatic MacGuffin. It’s the MacGuffin in a complete and utter farce, played out in the midst of tragedy and horror. It isn’t the letters of transit. It’s The Painting Of The Fallen Madonna With The Big Boobies from ‘Allo ‘Allo.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Clear the planet – I love *everytime* I hear $cilons shimmering saying, We’ve got a planet to clear.

      The Cult can’t clear 90027 (location of CO$ Advanced Org. LA, 1306 L Ron Hubbard Way.

      The Cult can’t clear 33756 (location of Flag Land Base, 210 S Fort Harrison Ave.

      They are tiny, ‘little people,’ as opposed to the bIg bEings they believe they are becoming. They can’t clear their next door neighbor’s, let alone a planet!!

      • joan nieman

        The only thing they can clear are bank accounts.

        • jeff

          Now that deserves a mention in Missionary Kid’s file. I laughed heartily!

          • Missionary Kid

            I have it as “Scientology: Clearing the planet one bank account at a time.” but I’m going to add, “The only thing $cientology can clear are bank accounts.”

        • Missionary Kid

          I added that to my list of Things Said about Scientology.

  • Cece

    John or Jon, I never much listened to you before. But this last art-a-cail was a biggy. Thank you for hanging in there – sheesh..
    Cece

  • Noni Mause

    Interesting. I left a comment on the SA blog that didn’t get through moderation. First time ever for me. My comment was on the Hubbard passage they’re highlighting today. Read it. I said that any group of people who think they are inherently superior to another group inevitably leaves the way open for human rights abuses of that group considered inferior. I asked if they thought from their perspective if this sort of thinking resulted in a better society. Perhaps it was too sensitive an issue for South Africans. I think that their lived experience is the direction scientology philosophy would inwvitably take us and wanted them to think about it. Did I do the wrong thing?

    • GlibWog

      NOPE! You were spot on Noni..

      Radar online has blocked me from my Scn. posts..

      • Noni Mause

        Thanks Glibby. I didn’t actually mean to upset anybody. You must have been giving them hell to block your posts at radar. 🙂

        • GlibWog

          I put the Sea Org # Noni.. and OSA did NOT like that one bit.. ha..

          You didn’t do one thing wrong. They just didn’t want to acknowledge it..xo Baby

          ( I sign Baby now because there is someone who has signed Glibby for 10 years..)

  • Jo

    Has Scientology abandoned Ireland? They still have these reviews on their FB page https://www.facebook.com/ScientologyDublin#_=_ I left a wee msg on their London page. I was blocked within the hour and my innocent question was deleted, strange 🙂

    • Aslansown

      On the Ireland page, somebody put xenu.net under the Reviews section 7 months ago and it’s still there. (If it suddenly disappears we’ll know they’re reading here).

      • Jo

        Yes, it’s weird the 7 month old review is still there.

        • Aslansown

          I love it!

        • Aslansown

          Sorry! I didn’t see the screen grab until now!

      • Snippy_X

        Maybe the person with the keys to the site blew and no one else can get in to moderate it.

        • Aslansown

          Wouldn’t that be great???

    • Tory Christman

      I’ll never forget their entire staff running down the street. “THE SPs Are here!” They tried to get our

      SP Dublin Conference cancelled. And this IS the Irish: The dood not only said NO WAY, he took photos of them off their security camera and gave them to us, to see who exactly these morons were.

      • Jo

        That’s funny, can just imagine them running away from scary SPs. Is there many Scientologists in Ireland?

        • Tory Christman

          It was an SP Convention….so yeah we all flew in 🙂

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gduy4zPdPdc
          (The rest is over to the right)

          • Jo

            Thanks Tory.

            • Tory Christman

              Your most welcome, Jo 🙂

        • InterestedinCrazy

          I haven’t found too many Scinos in my travels in Ireland and the Dub Org seems v quiet most of the time…are you up for going to a protest in Dub some time?

          • Jo

            I live in Northern Ireland, I’m kind of close to the giants causeway, miles away.

            • InterestedinCrazy

              Oooh, that’s far! I’m on the western sea board! The place with the famous Bay!

            • Jo

              We’re up late or up early 🙂

            • InterestedinCrazy

              up early here!

  • GlibWog

    Would someone link..

    West Coast SP Party Awards 2013 Burbank CA youtube .. It’s not working for me..

    OMG it is a tear jerker in one spot.. I won’t ruin it for you..xo Thanks Baby

    • Aslansown
      • Tory Christman

        6:15 if you want to skip to Mark 🙂 He received the Bob Minton Lifetime Achievement Award. 🙂
        And it’s adorable as it’s one of the times we get to see Mark’s sweet heart as he cries. Love it! So happy you enjoyed it so much, Mark. PS: Thanks, Aslansown, for posting it!

        • Aslansown

          I just watched the whole thing and that’s where I got all choked up!

      • GlibWog

        Thanks Lion..Well that just put me over the edge.. I have been crying all night.. Good Lord.. Why oh why do I put myself through this..?

        Shit we all know why we do it.. When Tory cried earlier on another video and now Mark..

        Forget it.. Sniff Sniff.. I need therapy ( xo) Baby

        • Tory Christman

          Here’s your therapy, Baby: We love you! ::::big hug:::

          • GlibWog

            WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH…….. OK that did it.. ha.. ((HUGS)) to you too darlin Tory..

            My hubby just said.. ” Every time I see you tonight you have been crying.. Is it something I said?” ha..

        • Aslansown

          I see Tory’s giving you a hug — I am too!

          • GlibWog

            Damn I need all the hugs I can get.. Come here ya big lion.. ((HUGS))) to you too..

            Sniff.. sniff.. I’m listening to Jamie DeWolf now to get some laughter in my heart.. Jeeze

            • Aslansown

              Hugs are always available.

            • GlibWog

              I retired after 30 years from such a High Stressful job..working with some really messed up people.. ( Mentally Ill, Addicts.. etc.. )

              and so what do I gravitate to? Scnilllllllloneytunes.. Some really, really, really messed up fucked up people.. Damn..

            • Aslansown

              I have to tell you that right from the beginning (whenever it was that I started reading the Bunker) your humor has really cheered me up and your warmth has made me feel welcomed. I’m really glad you’re here.

            • jeff

              I second that emotion!!

            • GlibWog

              Good God you guys.. Whenever I get a down vote I’ll think of you guys..hahahhaa

            • GlibWog

              Good Lord Lion.. You are not letting my cheeks dry tonight are you? I’m wondering now if I forgot my Paxil? hmmmmmmmmmm xo..

              I love to have a good cry though.. when I am in the mood. Apparently tonight I am in the mood. It feels good to release emotions..

              My husband went to bed after he thought he said something that would make me cry..after I said no.. I’m watching videos..

              and he said.. ” You mean you are doing it to yourself?” ” Forget it.. ” ha.. so much for sympathy…

            • Aslansown

              Hahaha…”you’re doing it to yourself”! Oh well.

              Sometimes you just have to cry. I had one of those times recently. You just have to let it all out sometimes.

            • Tory Christman

              Heyyyyyyyyyy!!

            • GlibWog

              smooches.. I just read Craig Jenson’s post over at Rinder’s sorry..hahaha ..

              Forgive me..I had a weak moment..

              OK.. can I at least say.. ” DM is effed up? ”

              EDIT: Are you going to take back your hug Tory? Cause I’m keepin it!

            • GlibWog

              Edited after rethinking.. xo

            • jeff

              Well, here, have a hug from me (sorry, I’m out of pie tonight, trying to cut back).

            • GlibWog

              I am so sick from DQ Reeses Cup Cake.. Pie..? Shoot.. Yep.. I could have a piece of pie right now..hahahhaaa

              Always room for pie Jeff.. Awwwww thanks.. hugs.. Love them. My hubby can be stingy with his hugs sometimes.. Jeeze.. ( He says I can be needy at times..!) Well, Duh? xo

            • Aslansown

              After hearing about your ice cream cake I actually did go out in 20 degree weather and get some Ben and Jerry’s…and now I feel sick!

              Needy is the new black. 😉

            • GlibWog

              hahahhahahhaha.. We live in such a remote place.. and he’s all I got for hugs.. He’ll hug me as long as I don’t block the Hockey Game!

              Well join me in sick bay.. Ice Cream Cake is Gone! ugh, ugh..

            • Aslansown

              hahahaha! I can picture him looking beyond you at the TV!

              Ugh — I really do feel sick.

    • Aslansown

      I see what you mean. I’m all choked up.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Cool idea, GlibW !!
      Very terrific video, Tory C !!
      Thanks, baby.

      • GlibWog

        Max.. OMG you are coming up with some cool Avis… Love this one..

        You are welcome..xox Baby

  • Sunny Sands

    Black Rob at WWP posted this pic of the new Flag building interior.

    • Tory Christman

      Awful….sorry, it just is. WAY over priced, under functional…and a huge attempt
      to look “grandiose and artistic”: EPIC FAIL, Scios…esp when you think the GD members
      Pay for these “renos”. Thanks for the photo, Sunny.

    • Jo

      Looks like the only thing Super Powers b