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Leah Remini on The Ellen DeGeneres Show: Fairly Tight-Lipped About Scientology

Leah_Remini_EllenLeah Remini finally stopped with the coded messages and spoke directly and publicly about leaving Scientology today with her appearance on The Ellen Degeneres Show. But it still was a very limited statement, and nothing like the detail that we provided when we broke the story of her defection on July 8 and in a lengthy interview with her sister Nicole on July 18.

It’s a big deal that Leah said anything at all on such a popular daytime show, and Ellen’s reactions are priceless. But essentially, Leah’s story remains untold by her, and we’re looking forward to her going into so many things we’ve learned about her defection from Scientology: the scene at the wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes in 2006, the three months of interrogations she went through when she dared to ask about the disappearance of the wife of Scientology leader David Miscavige, and how she managed to convince her entire family to leave with her.

It’s a great story, and it remains to be told by her. Leah, we’re listening!

But here’s what went down on Ellen’s show…

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Here’s the exchange…

 

ELLEN: Why did you choose to leave, if you can answer that?

LEAH: Well, you know, my mother got involved when we were very young, so it’s all we really ever knew. But over time my eyes opened, and I just could no longer be affiliated with the organization, and my family felt the same, so we left.

ELLEN: Are you OK?

LEAH: I’m OK. Yeah, I’m OK. To answer your question, it’s hard, and we’ve lost friends that can no longer talk to us who are still in the organization.

ELLEN: Now, that is a thing, when you leave the church they can’t talk to you or you can’t talk to them or something?

LEAH: Correct.

ELLEN: Wow.

LEAH: And these are friends that we’ve had for, you know dozens of years. But, I have great friends, other friends that are not in the church that have stood by us. And our family is stronger, we’re together, and that’s all I can ask for.

ELLEN: You have me, I’m your friend, we’re your friends.

 
And that’s it. (Except for a cute quip later by Ellen about Leah being kicked out of the church rather than defecting.)

What do you think? Will this brief exchange have a big effect on Scientology? Give us your thoughts.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on September 9, 2013 at 16:30

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  • BananaSplits8

    ELLEN: Now, that is a thing, when you leave the church they can’t talk to you or you can’t talk to them or something?

    LEAH: Correct.

    ELLEN: Wow.

    Her work there was done.

    • DamOTclese2

      This was good, brief, people are often turned off by hearing about the endless Scientology abuses and crimes, not everyone is as fascinated at Bunkerites and other Fringes of the Internet. By keeping it short and factual, right to the point, Ellen and Leah conveyed one of the worse human rights crimes that Scientology commits against its customers without anyone’s eyes going glassy. All in all, excellent coverage. Ellen is always wonderful, always plugged in to the common citizen’s view of the real world outside of the Hollywood bubble.

  • Observer

    IMO, whatever effect it has on Scientology will be brought on by Scientology itself. I think that rather than just letting it pass–after all, compared to what else is being said, Leah’s comments were downright innocuous–the “church” will overreact with its ludicrously transparent lies about disconnection being a personal choice and not doctrine, blah blah blah, maybe with a few derogatory jabs at bitter apostates and Internet fringe dwellers to top it off. Always attack, even if it makes you look like the evil, paranoid cult you are.

    • Mark

      Poor, poor Scott Tracy! Even a superannuated Supermarionation 1960’s puppet doesn’t deserve such a cruel fate…

      • aboutandout

        This was one of my favourite cartoons when I was growing up. It came out again in repeats when my kids were little they thought I was nuts…lol. I remember even as a kid seeing the strings moving around…good memories…lmao

        • richelieu jr

          Is it a cartoon? Looked like the puppet thing to me…

          • aboutandout

            It was on with the Sat morning cartoons but yes it is a puppet thing. Along with the cereal commercial “I want my Mapo”. ok I digress

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          STRINGS?!?

          • aboutandout

            Awe did I ruin it for you (:

    • Their fringe responses never stops to amaze me. Who believe anything that comes out of that cult’s mouth anymore?

      • Doug Parent

        Anette to be honest I don’t know if anything produced by C of S internal PR was ever intended to be actually truthful but rather just spin spin spin.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Oh my god, that is so disturbingly funny!

      • WildaBeast

        This ^^^
        God that shit is creepily well done.

        • richelieu jr

          Well, the real puppets are taller, so you can tell them apart…

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      You’re right, Observer. They will always attack because that is what ‘Ron’ told them to do. It’s KSW, plain and simple. Scientology can never be reformed. They will keep doing it even if it means their extinction. It’s happening right before our eyes people. Since 2008 when Anonymous declared war on the cult. It’s a chain-reaction that will not stop but only get stronger. The damn is breaking and there is nothing they can do to fix it. They’re are a Hindenburg crashing and burning. Get the marshmallows.

      • Observer

        I don’t think Ron could have come up with a better poison pill if he’d tried.

      • phronsie

        Is Anonymous still doing much against scientology currently? Well, I guess Anonymous is not a group as much as it is a bunch of individuals who decided through the same message board to do something, but are the protests still happening on a good scale, or just very small? I’m fairly ignorant, though I came here through following Anonymous youtube posts. There just doesn’t seem to be many new ones, except for AGP, long may he reign!

        • GlibWog

          phron.. I have been going over to WWP to check out the protests.. Unless I am going in the wrong place

          I have read protests going on international.. Haven’t seen much going on in the States unless I’m missing something.

    • Robert Eckert

      Your thrusters are throwing it off balance!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8uWuSr2PX4

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        I saw recently, through some static and pixilation, a re-run of ‘Stargate SG-1″ where a science fiction filmmaker is doing a film and SG-1 uses it as a cover. The film seems to have been done in the ‘SuperCar/Thunderbirds” puppet universe. Anyone know the episode. It was funny to see Teal’c as a bald puppet…

    • GlibWog

      OH HELL NO……………bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahhahahahhaha

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    It will have a MAJOR impact. Lots of people watch Ellen. It throws into the public conversation that there is: A. Shunning, Scientology style. B. That she opened her eyes to the real situation, it was so bad she had to leave. C. That there were things that bad to have her eyes opened to.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      What she Isn’t saying at the moment is speaking Volumes, especially after all the stories that began to get covered about Disconnection, Fair Game, Sea Org slavery, Abuse, and more after Katie. That burst onto the public’s conscience got international coverage that lasted for months so it is still fresh.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        It is a teaser. Google search and hits on Tony’s Blog are straight up and vertical from this!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          in that case….

          Scientology Declares Children should spy and report on their parents…and then Declares they are Suppressive, Evil and Must Disconnect all ties and contacts.

          http://i43.tinypic.com/1ovxw4.jpg

    • ThetaBara

      Now I want to see a “Shunning, Scientology Style!” trailer based on “Love, American Style!” 😉

      • richelieu jr

        “Love, Scientology Style” in 2D (with permission)

        • Robert Eckert

          Do you have to wear the special 2D glasses?

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            {Seriously, how wog of you. Always with the 2D. Every chance you get. Get your ethics in man!}

          • richelieu jr

            No Robert, you can just poke one of your eyes out. It works just as well!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    We’re your friends too, Leah! Also, we read books and blogs and love stories around here. Any time. We are Listening!

    I think she kept it cool and calm but still pushed the message home that Something is rotten enough for the family to walk, and a reminder to those who still have not gotten the memo:

    Scientology Disconnects families and friends.

  • kickingit101

    By Leah not being specific she got a whole audience wondering what is going on that she can no longer associate herself with them? That will lead them to the internet, that will lead them to learn all of the horrible things about the Church of Conocology. She said so much by saying so little. Her comment on losing friends who are still in the church who are not allowed to associate with them because they left was a major bitch slap to the mini mental midget. You know he is stomping his feet, and flailing his arms over that comment alone.

    • tetloj

      Plus she hasn’t said anything that Krusty or the Travoltas can honestly refute. They’re flucked.

    • Doug Parent

      By Leah being vague she created the *Mystery Sandwich (*copyright LRon Hubbard Library Church of Spiritual Technology all right reserved) which is supposed to create even more intense interest as to WHY or what factors are behind her losing all her Scientology associates going back “decades”.

  • Spackle Motion

    It will only have an impact on those still in because now you have one of their own celebrities confirming Disconnection (albeit in only a few words). This will open more floodgates of doubt and we will see more fallout.

    I had doubts that Cook’s email would have a significant impact and I am glad to say that I was wrong. There were so many that left (and a few that spoke out about it) because she planted seeds of doubt.

    Maybe one day Leah will be freer to write about this episode in her life, but I am happy that she says, “my eyes were opened”. She’s definitely on the road to recovery.

    • kickingit101

      I believe Leah is writing a tell all book about her experiences in Scientology. Since her and her sister were a part of the Sea Org, I can not wait to read her book. The mini mental midget will need to be sedated when the fall out from that book starts to hit.

      • Spackle Motion

        I read that too, although many rumors of celebrity tell-alls (i.e. “memoirs”) are just rumors. There was one about Katie Holmes not that long ago too. Although I think the Katie rumor was a planted story meant as a warning shot to the Cruise camp for something he did/planned on doing. Katie seems to have masterful lawyers and PR people so I think that rumor was deliberate.

        • Seannie5

          I think Katie signed away any chance of a tell all book when negotiating full custody of Suri. Can’t blame her for that

          • Spackle Motion

            We don’t know if she has the option to tell her story at some point in the future. She may have negotiated that in the settlement. I think that Katie had some damning evidence against Cruise to where he was forced to acquiesce to her demands.

            I still believe that that one rumor was a fake rumor planted as a warning shot.

            • Seannie5

              I know we don’t ‘know’, I just said I ‘think’

            • ThetaBara

              Katie has at least one ace in the hole. It may be paternity. Who knows?!

            • georget1952

              I have always thought Suri looked more like Chris Klein….than TC. But that is just my opinion, don’t sue me for it TC!! haha

          • Robert Eckert

            What is in the custody agreement is the (quite common) open-ended language about how neither parent should disparage the beliefs of the other. If she wrote a book, she would have be on tiptoes while talking about Scientology.

            • WildaBeast

              Any book Katie wrote that didn’t talk openly about Scientology would probably not be a best-seller, you know? I’m with tetloj…Suri will grow up one day, and then it’s open season.

          • tetloj

            Suri will turn 18 one day…..

      • BananaSplits8

        I wish the imminent Leah tell-all book deal rumor would die already.

        • kickingit101

          Not a rumor. She has verified she is doing it and she is going to talk about all the things that are considered taboo.

          http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/video/weeks-left-scientology-leah-remini-promises-book-19876655

          • BananaSplits8

            It’s only been verified in the sense that one news source quotes another. I may be mistaken but they all resort to USWeekly as the source who misquoted Leah.

            I thought this was cleared up months ago.

          • Robert Eckert

            Repeating the same story is not “verifying” it. USWeekly did not have a reporter talk to Leah; they were giving hearsay from an unnamed intermediary, and it does not appear to have been accurate.

  • Jgg2012

    It’s short, but it makes a big point. There IS disconnection. That is what is holding celebrities and others in. That is why John Travolta and others don’t want to leave. That is why it still exists. That is why it’s behavior goes beyond what’s protected by the 1st Amendment.

  • DeElizabethan

    I think it gave them a good kick in the butt, but not that damaging yet. Leah might be working up to some bigger stuff, hopefully. I applaud her for getting on this show and applaud Ellen for speaking up and giving her opinion, a nice high kick.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Step by step, inch by inch. The way that Ellen leaned in with furrowed brow and fervent voice….”Are you … Are you okay?”

      (btw, Don’t know about you, but this most awesome SP convention means I think I’ll have to take a nap between now and SP Super Party!)

      • ThetaBara

        Yay for naps. And for small steps. Even microactivism makes a difference!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Small steps. Yes. Let the CoS overreact.

      • GlibWog

        hahahahha You guys.. Jeeze.. You know I’ll be all over the next convention..

  • Seannie5

    Bravo to Leah and a major bravo to Ellen for going there. All scientologists will probably be banned form her show now and she doesn’t care!
    You can see that it’s taken it’s toll on Leah though. What an awful thing to have to go though. I;m sure she gets a lot of support from twitter and other Hollywood stars

    • ze moo

      $cientologist ‘clebs’ need Ellen much more then Ellen needs them. John Travolta was a show feature and he needs every venue to strut his stuff. Any cleb ‘banned’ or discouraged from doing the Ellen show is going to really reconsider their relationship to Lroon.

      • WildaBeast

        This. Ellen’s show reaches such a huge audience. I don’t watch TV, ferchrissake, and even I hear about her guests a fair bit. Trying to ban Scilon celebrities from Ellen’s show will put Scientology in a catch-22 position: they need to ban folks from the show, in order to make sure they’re good little culties, but they need those folks on her show, because it’s good for their careers and their careers are the means by which they make MOAR MONIES for the {church}…which is a large part of what makes them good little culties.

  • ze moo

    The Remini ‘escape’ story is still getting coverage in the tabloids and real news. ‘Disconnection’ and ‘sec check’ are words that more people know. The crazy is the story of CO$ today. Given the flood of fellow escapees in the last 20 years, I doubt that the führer can fill the Clearwater tent. Keep the popcorn handy, this show is going to keep going for a long time.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Ellen starts by saying that it is mysterious. It is really not mysterious. It is just that the truth is hard to believe.

  • Davka

    She carefully worded and rehearsed that statement – note she said “organization” not {church}.

    • Seannie5

      I noticed that! I love that she is doing Dancing with the Stars. Keep her face out there reminding people that she ESCAPED a nutso organization and keep OSA and the angry dwarf fretting!

      • LeeAnneClark

        And better yet, that her career has EXPLODED since she left! Which kinda calls into question the whole thing about how Scientology will supposedly help struggling actors to be successful. Ha!

        • richelieu jr

          I think saying it has ‘exploded’ is bit much. It is enough that she hasn’t suddenly become destitute and forgotten and the Scilons are always warning people.

          She used to have a hit TV series, now she is competing on a glorified game show…

      • kickingit101

        You know it is chaffing Kirstie Alley’s well endowed ass that Leah is on Dancing With The Stars. Wonder how many times Kirstie will be in the audience. LOL

    • Aslansown

      She said “church” once at the very end. I wish I could read lips to tell what she said to Ellen as soon as they went to the music.

      • Robert Eckert

        I think it was to the effect of Thank God we got through that.

    • DamOTclese2

      Ellen and Leah most certainly touched bases before the show to ensure that the violently insane psychopath could not possibly seize upon anything truthful that Leah might say that the insane psychopath could even remotely hope to sue her for. No “trade secrets” or “trademark violations.” for example, which the insane dwarf has previously tried to sue people for before.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    It is also going to become an issue with Oprah. I see it as her eventually having to address this somehow.

    • Seannie5

      Oprah is a hypocrite. How many times did she have John, Kirstie and Tom on her show? Oprah seems to LOVE the Xenu lovers. She said Travolta is her favourite movie star and she adored Tom too and except for the public freaking out over his behaviour on her couch she probably would have continued to kiss his ass. She had Kirstie on constantly talking about her weight…. has she ever toyed with Scientology herself?
      Not to mention her endorsing John and Kelly’s marriage as if it was this big love affair when she KNOWS he is gay. She’s kinda full of it

      • sugarplumfairy

        Oprah’s amazing.. I adore her..

        • Spackle Motion

          Oprah has promoted dangerous quackery that had awful results (and the down vote wasn’t from me), and I thought her handling of Frey only served to satisfy her own over-inflated ego. Recall her promoting that sweat lodge quack that killed a few people? She has audience members that buy into her woo promoting shit, which is a responsibility she doesn’t seem to care about.

          • Seannie5

            I do admire what she has achieved in her life and her charity work wtc, but the woman has become insufferable in the past 10-15 years. Her messiah complex is really grating.

            • Spackle Motion

              Yes, she has done more contributing to charities than most other celebrities. She’s a formidable power player, which is really great for someone in business that is a dual minority (being black and female). I admire that greatly.

              I agree that her messiah complex is disgusting and she’s often been irresponsible in her choices that had really awful consequences. She does seem unprofessional with her grudges and I’m glad that her OWN channel is doing poorly because it is about time that she started to come off of her throne.

            • sugarplumfairy

              bite me..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              whew…I was getting worried you were sick or somethin’!

            • sugarplumfairy

              lol.. I know I’m an opinionated ass.. (But I’m usually right..)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              No no, I wasn’t being critical. I was just waiting for the sugarplum smackaroonie which we all love so much!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I knew that.. I felt the love, my friend..

            • ThetaBara

              Yeah, usually – but not always! Same as Oprah herself! XOXOX!

            • Robert Eckert

              Flunk 😉

            • sugarplumfairy

              touché.. =)

          • sugarplumfairy

            No, she hasn’t pomoted quackery.. She’s a good woman with a great heart.. But this isn’t the Oprah forum.. I’ll never understand the hate that I hear people espouse for her.. Oprah’s a good girl and the world needs more goodness.. but I’m through discussing it here..

            • Seannie5

              Christ ok, we get it, you are a superfan. Good for you! Can you respect that we don’t share your opinion? We are not ‘hating’ on her so calm yourself down! We’ve even pointed out her good points!!! The Oprah website full of God’s plan, spiritual wellbeing, how to buy a 25k handbag, Oprah and Gayle’s roadtrip, diet number 28928302302 and free cars is that way >>>>

            • sugarplumfairy

              i’m pretty sure you left out a few stereotypical Oprah insults..

              Anybody else you wanna dis before while you’re here? Dr. Phil? Maya Angelou? Mother Theresa? Colin Powell? Helen Keller? Ruth Bader Ginzburg? Gandhi? Margaret Thatcher? Noam Chomsky? Judge Judy? { I’m all agog to hear your thoughts.. }

              Yah, I’m a fan.. And it’s my nature to defend a good person being disrespected.. I gotta be me..

              The vagina brackets were for you, Cap’n.. you Oprah-hater, you…

            • Robert Eckert

              I despise Noam Chomsky with a passion, and think little of Dr. Phil. Mother Teresa and Judge Judy are distinctly over-rated.

            • sugarplumfairy

              bite me..

              =)

            • ThetaBara

              This isn’t hate, it’s just criticism. Oprah’s a big girl, she can take a little heat.

            • Captain Howdy

              “Oprah’s a big girl”

              Fat shamer!

            • ThetaBara

              I actually almost said “grownup.”
              You, Howdy, are the ONLY one who gets away with tweaking me for that!

            • Captain Howdy
            • Captain Howdy

              You keep forgetting the vagina brackets.

            • Jon Hendry

              “The Secret”/”Law of Attraction” is pure bullshit and Oprah promoted it for a while, helping quacks to get rich and helping people get suckered. Oprah.com still has credulous old articles promoting this tripe.

              Plus she promotes woo-meister Deepak Chopra, among others.

            • Plotinus

              The Secret is bull, but it isn’t that far from preaching found in every corner of ‘merica, so I would hardly condemn Oprah for that. And Deepak isn’t that bad. He wrote 21 NYT bestsellers (although I can’t vouch for their contents).

          • DamOTclese2

            Amen to that. Oprah knows that Scientology is deadly, the stupid woman does not care. She’s in it for the money, that people die because of her promotion of Scientology’s deadly crimes is irrelevant to Oprah, she only wants the money.

        • DamOTclese2

          Oprah needs to die in a Scientology Purification Rundown ritual.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Was that comment really worth the time it took you to type it?

            • DamOTclese2

              Got you to cry about it so yeah, it was worth it. 🙂

            • sugarplumfairy

              Does your mom know you’re up past your bedtime?

            • DamOTclese2

              That’s a win right there, rightard!

            • GlibWog

              Dam.. WTF..Oprah needs to die in Purif..?

              Are You For Real..

              Let’s remember why we are here for God’s sake.. When we fight in the bunker DM love it.

              He loves to see the crack of division …
              Come On Now.. Jesus H …

            • DamOTclese2

              Have any evidence for this “god” thing of yours? Any at all.

              Right. Dismissed.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Why do people think Travolta’s problem is that he is gay? Travolta’s problem is Miscavige and the CoS, and a lot of people have that problem (and a gay man can have a love relationship with a woman).

        • Seannie5

          I didn’t say that John’s problem is that he is gay. I said I don’t like Oprah because she always referred to John and Kelly’s marriage as that of a ‘normal’ man/woman dynamic. Romance, kids, love, passion etc. I remember watching her gushing over their relationship. John’s 50th birthday party stories spring to mind. I don’t care that John is gay, I just resent Oprah is helping to pass off a sham (in the hetero sense, I’m sure they do love each other very much) of a marriage when she is so pious and holy herself.
          And let’s face it, if John left scientology the fact that he is gay and other parts of his life that he has told in his audits would be made VERY public, so it’s a little naïve to say that his being gay is not a problem. It shouldn’t be, but he has lived a very public lie for the past 30 years, so he has sort of dug himself a hole, don’t you think?

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Nope, I haven’t the faintest idea what Travolta thinks about being gay, but I do know the biggest victimizer around is Miscavige. As for living a lie, come on, generation after generation of gay men lived a lie. It’s going to take a lot more than one generation to undo the kind of harm they lived with. We are 45 years removed from a time when people went to jail for marrying another race, and gay men were still being arrested 30 years ago for being gay. I can’t judge anyone who has lived through that in their lifetime.

            • Seannie5

              He and Kelly didn’t just live quietly and privately, the did dozens of magazine shoots with their kids, in their homes, on their private jet etc. They made themselves a celebrity couple and intended to fool celeb watchers (naïve though they are!) that theirs is a traditional marriage. Yes, being a gay actor is difficult and it’s up to him if he wants to have a pretend marriage, but I just don’t appreciate being sold a falsehood that is in place just to help him be a bigger and richer star. My empathy only goes so far.
              I do sympathise with him having to deal with Miscavige.

            • ThetaBara

              Then don’t buy the gossip magazines. Most of the rest of it is made up, too!
              Sorry to burst your bubble.

          • ThetaBara

            No, no I don’t. Life is more complicated (or can be). Especially when people insist that you must choose ONLY ONE.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          John Travolta’s problem is that he is John Travolta.

          • Mooser

            John Travolta’s problem is that he is not Tony Manero, except for a few glorious moments. The white polyester suit don’t fit no more.

            • ze moo

              The chia pet hair is the give away that he is trying to keep his ‘youthful’ appearance for movie roles. That is where the big bucks are in Hollywood. I don’t see the acting skills that let Dustin Hoffman, Tommy Lee Jones and others get the ‘mature’ leading man jobs. He may surprise us yet, on the other hand, I am not waiting for Tom Cruise or Krustie Ally to surprise me with a great performance.

        • richelieu jr

          Being gay is the least of Travolta’s problems.
          I’d start with Hubbard, actually and Dianetics, Scientology, fake marriage, lying about everything, and remaining faithful to a midget who openly mocks his sexual orientation and outs him at every opportunity whilst still holding something over his head, Battlefield Earth..

          Listen he really seems like a sweet guy bya ll reports, but he doesn’t have the sense to pound sand into a rat hole…

          • DamOTclese2

            Travolta is not gay. There is zero evidence that Travolta is gay.

            • richelieu jr

              You mean besides photos of him open mouth kissing guys?
              Credible eyewitness reports of him acting up in bath houses? Seriously, now…

            • DamOTclese2

              Oh come on, if every man or every woman was gay just because they kiss, nobody would be straight. Being affectionate does not mean one is automatically gay or straight.

              Okay, sure, I know that calling other people “gay” used to be an insult, funny when they were 8 or 12 years old, but these days it’s no longer an insult and, even more to the point, it’s lame when there is zero legitimate, testable, falsifiable evidence.

              The Unofficial Biography of Tom Cruise covered this phenomena. People who are jealous of Tom Cruise and John Travolta want to pretend they’re gay. Lacking serious, legitimate evidence, however, means that all such allegations are unsupported.

            • Plotinus

              If it is no big deal to be gay (and it isn’t) then why be so concerned about evidence? It doesn’t matter either way. Being gay is normal- evidence and allegations are irrelevant.

            • DamOTclese2

              The “big deal” is that people are claiming he’s gay without evidence. Among Christofascist Republican shit bags, being gay *is* still an offense, this despite the fact that Christofascist Republican shit bags are in the vast minority.

              Oh: Plus there’s the Christian Republican assholes in Russia that are committing crimes against humanity among gays still.

            • richelieu jr

              GImme a break. And i you think I was calling him gay to insult him, you’re way off base on even less info…

            • DamOTclese2

              I think you want to believe that Travolta is gay because you’re jealous of him and his previous success.

            • richelieu jr

              OK , I get it; Troll, troll, troll your boat…
              Back under the bridge, you!

            • DamOTclese2

              I claim WIN! on this one!

            • Plotinus

              You are joking me, right!

            • DamOTclese2

              Um, do you vote Republican by any chance?

              Point being, if there is evidence that John Travolta is gay, trot it out here, Plotinus, for all to see. If not, shut your fucking yipper. Thanks.

            • Plotinus

              Fuck off.

            • DamOTclese2

              I’ll mark that down as a “yes.” LOL. Win, sweet win.

      • ThetaBara

        JT is BISEXUAL. And his wife is ok with it. He is not the only person in the world in this situation.
        Duh. I’ve dated “gay” guys. it’s not that big a deal.

        • Seannie5

          Real mature….

          • ThetaBara

            Who?
            Me? JT? Kelly?
            Grow up. Any relationship that consenting adults want to enter into is ok.
            Or should be, if you’re not stuck in some insidious cult.
            Also, try to accept that BISEXUALITY (for want of a better term) exists. TYVM.

            • Seannie5

              you don’t even know that he is BI for sure. Jeez, you sound like a fangirl who wants to keep the dream that he will one day want to bone you alive! We know John gets his rocks off with masseuses and drops trousers for anyone he finds vaguely attractive. He hasn’t exactly been discreet. Whether bi or gay he has flogged a false ideal to the public. And NO SHIT, ive never heard of bisexuality before!!!

            • ThetaBara

              Um, dude, he has also fathered several children. With his wife. Those stories might be true or they might be slander. Unless you’re new here I expect you know how the CO$ operates.
              YOU sound like a Stalkerfan who wants to some day get your own “massage.” Or desperately believe that he is only batting for the home team. Life isn’t like that.
              Believe me, I have NO lust for JT. But I think all this “GAY! GAY! GAY!” drumbeating doesn’t really contribute to the dialogue. IDK where you’re from, but this sort of thing happens all the time. And NO SHIT, you are denying bisexuality.
              Whatevs.

            • media_lush

              neither here nor there but there was a lot of gossip at the time that John wasn’t the father of his new son… he did a “Tommy” and used borrowed sperm…. his previous two kids looked exactly like him and had jet black hair…. his new son, not so much

            • ThetaBara

              Genetics totally allows for kids to look different. I have sisters who are non identical twins, and, as kids, one looked exactly like her mom and the other looked exactly like her dad. Only DNA testing will tell you for sure.

            • GlibWog

              Lush he has Kelly’s features..
              Really we have bigger fish to fry around this joint..
              What happened to bringing SCN down.. the last half hr. I’ve been reading about in fighting..
              Good God.. Yaw’ll

            • Seannie5

              if they are slander how come he has NEVER sued? Reporters OPENLY call him gay and there is no fallout. Explain that!

            • ThetaBara

              Dude, chill. Perhaps he’s heard of the Streisand Effect.
              And you are still denying the obvious – that he is most likely actually bi.
              Whatever. Go troll someone else. I’m bored with this.

        • media_lush

          well, if you knew they were gay I wouldn’t really call it a ‘date’ in the traditional sense…

          • ThetaBara

            Um, when are you ASSUMING I found that out?
            Also, NO they are NOT GHEY, they are fucking BI. DUH.
            My dad thought my first gay boyfy was gay, and I was all, um, NO! We are FUCKING so I don’t really think that’s the case!
            You need to stop with your all or nothing thinking and see that reality is nuanced.

            • media_lush

              Er…. “My dad thought my first gay boyfy was gay, and I was all, um, NO! We are FUCKING so I don’t really think that’s the case!”

              so has does that work? …. your “gay” boyfriend is not in fact, gay

              your nuances and assumptions are all over the place; I was just pointing out that maybe knowing the sexuality of a person you are going on a date [note I said a ‘traditional’ date] is kind of important… or is courting so hipster nowadays that it would be rude to want to know?

            • Mooser

              However, if two people are married, sex with another person is adultery, no matter what the sex of that person.

            • ThetaBara

              If that is your religion, or your agreement with your spouse, sure.
              But two grown adults can make an agreement between themselves, and if they do, who are you to judge? I don’t see Kelly pressing charges.

            • WildaBeast

              I’m with you on this one, Theta. I know Travolta has sexual relations with men, but I have no reason to think that he’s not also attracted to women. Sexuality is a fluid thing. I’m about as gay as they make ’em, and I’m totally incapable of being romantically attracted to men, but even I’ve met one or two guys who I’ve felt the urgent need to drag into bed. And if Travolta didn’t belong to a cult that was so damn homophobic, I don’t think it would matter in the least.
              I hope he leaves one day, and that, when the {church} releases his ethics files with all his “confessions” about his gay attractions/actions, he’s at a point of self-acceptance where he can say, “Yeah, that’s true. Next question, please.”

            • ThetaBara

              It doesn’t (or shouldn’t) matter in the least, and this is where my empathy for JT comes from. One of my “gay boyfys” is still so tortured because he was brought up Catholic, and his family only somewhat accepts him. That is NOT OK. He came from them, he did not ask to be born and he has every right to exist as he IS. So to see someone as (theoretically) successful and powerful as JT still being tortured over loving cock is just WRONG.
              And I think it is interwoven with women hating. Because, really, if men are ALL THAT, then what is so wrong with being into cock?
              Not to mention Hubbard’s demonic ghey history!
              FFS!

            • WildaBeast

              Oh, it doesn’t matter to me worth a damn. And my point is that if he wasn’t a Scientologist, it might well not matter to him either. If he was able to be out, I don’t think most of the people speculating would care either. Yes; I have some empathy for him because I know what it’s like to wish there was a “straight pill”; it hurts and it’s awful and I don’t think anyone should have to feel that way for any reason.

          • Nevermore

            Well, one of my exes swings both ways, but describes himself as gay, as to him that describes men who are sexually attracted to men. So I’ve ‘dated’ a gay man.

        • richelieu jr

          How do you know Travolta is ‘bi’, exactly? His only relationship not cooked up by the Scilons was with an older woman, which tends to be a give away…

          I don’t personally give a toss where his parks his johnson, or where he falls on the sliding scale of sexuality (isn’t that int he SuperPower Building?) IN LA when I was there, he was constantly in the bathhouses and out with guys and as far as I know he’s never been spotted with another woman.

          And if his wife is so OK with it, why does she belong to a religion that openly persecuted gays and considers homosexuality the same as ‘covert hostility’?

    • sugarplumfairy

      i hope she does..

    • Hartley Patterson

      There have been attempts to ask Oprah why she ignores Scientology but she has ignored them. Her apologists have said “her team keep this stuff from reaching her” but she can’t be unaware of the appalling media image of the Church, it’s everywhere these days.
      So she doesn’t want to know. She had other dubious guests and and didn’t want to hear bad stuff about them either so I don’t think it’s a Scientology thing, it’s just the way she is. She has her good causes and the rest is populist audience pleasing.

    • no_srsly

      on a side note: Kirstie Alley was on Dr Oz today (read: an Oprah spinoff)…so we shall see if ‘O’ treats “Leah-the-SP” as well as her XenuLoving other friends.

    • DamOTclese2

      Oprah is a dimwitted loon, she only gives a damn about money, and *fuck* the victims of Scientology who walk in and buy frauds because of her endorsement of the crime syndicate.

  • Cat Daddy
    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Actually, I think Monique Rathbun is going to own it after she wins her case.

      • richelieu jr

        Please don’t say that. It gives me the chills.

        Perhaps she’ll give it to her hubby for being such a great ‘warrior’?

      • phronsie

        I posted something about feeling a little dubious about this lady when I first showed up here; I have this idea of there being, in the distant future of the independent scientologists, a movie tribute to the wife of the great leader, like the Mormons did for Joseph Smith’s first wife….

  • sugarplumfairy

    You know what? That’s a LOT more than a lot of other celebrities have said upon leaving co$.. Not everyone can be Jason Beghe.. It’s more than I expected.. Good for Leah..

    • Sherbet

      I agree, sugarplum. I think Leah was very candid even though her comments were brief. Viewers everywhere are reading between the lines.

    • ThetaBara

      Why has no one noticed the “should I sit like this?” bit? Freakin’ priceless!

      • georget1952

        I loved that. Wonder who that was addressed to? Hmmmmm LOL

        • ThetaBara

          Us, and people who Get It, I think!

          • georget1952

            Yep Yep I think so too.

  • Seannie5

    I looked at Connor Cruise’s twitter and instagram and there is not a mention of Nicole, his MOTHER, anywhere. On mother’s day he simply wished all the moms a good day. He talks about his dad, may even have posted a picture or two. That omission not surprising of course. What is more interesting is that ever since Tom and Katie split there is not a mention of either her or Suri when before hat he was posting drawings that his ‘little sister’ had done for him. It was quite cute to see. He talked about her a few times, since the split – NOTHING! Just how often has Tom seen that kid since July 12? Is Suri an SP now? Remember his words: “You’re either in or you’re out”

    • Spackle Motion

      Rumor has it that Tom is seeing Suri in secret for the following reasons:

      1. It is safer to be away from all of the photogs
      2. The previous press on his visits caused a major flap because of other Scientologists that have had to cut off ties in similar circumstances. No press = no flaps
      3. Katie probably wanted privacy for Suri

      Every “flap” seems to have ripple effects of people blowing. Miscavige doesn’t have enough fingers to plug all of the Katie PR leaks at this point.

      • WildaBeast

        ” Miscavige doesn’t have enough fingers to plug all of the Katie PR leaks at this point.”

        So true. And so wonderful.

      • Lurkness

        There is also TC’s lawsuit against the press to consider. His difficulty is that he apparently did NOT connect with Suri in the immediate period after the divorce, as perhaps accurately alleged by some in the the press/(by the defendants). Whether he is, in fact, now more frequently connecting with Suri is also open to debate. It must be difficult to manuever around the land-minds or your own creation. However, one must ask, if you are accused of abandoing (abandoment) would you not do a public appearance to support your $50 million dollar lawsuit? He did do the America’s Cup video with Conner recently and club appearances with him too. So, is he really still connected with Suri?

        • GlibWog

          Yep Lurkness.. And you know if my little one broke her arm.. I don’t care what I am doing I would be there for her..

          Whether he is under the radar I don’t know.. but his past history has shown that when he is with her ..bring on the press.. So God only knows..

          When I googled the questions I didn’t see anything after July 12 2013.

          • Lurkness

            Very true. Bunkerites, and other decent regular folks, would all have been there for the broken arm as a caring parent–and his past history of very public displays of affection/parenthood serve as stark contrast to what we dont see today. TC “protecting” Suri from the press doesn’t seem to hold water, IMHO.

            • GlibWog

              I absolutely agree Lurk…and not only that I want to add..

              TC doesn’t give a shit what his fellow Scn think about him NOT disconnecting from Suri.. when they had to disconnect from theirs.. PUHLLLLLLLLLLLease..

              I remember the big stink when Princess Di took Wm to the hospital because he got conked on the head..and Charles wasn’t at the Hospital with them..

              If Charles can catch hell so can Cruise… Suck it up Buckaroo and go see your daughter..

  • Synthia Fagen

    In this instance, less is more. The fact that she said, “Over time her eyes were opened and she could no longer be affiliated with the organization and her family agreed” says a lot and I think she is handling this brilliantly in terms of creating a reach for her book.

    If you think about it, it gives no current Scientologist anything to argue up against. She gave no specific data which will force people to find out for themselves.

    • May_West

      Agree. Leah took the high road by saying little, but what little she said was powerful. Grace and eloquence speak louder than couch jumping.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      And in that short but sweet statement, she admitted that at one time, her eyes were closed. This might be lost on some, but for any under the radar lurkers, this will jump out for them big time.

      The Disconnection Monster, once out of a member’s mental cage, cannot be easily corralled and herded back in. It is so common and raw and terrifying to those still in that IT is always close to the surface…or their TV/Monitor screens.

      http://i42.tinypic.com/14tbypv.jpg

      • GlibWog

        You have a way with words Hole.. wow.. you just drew me in..

    • ThetaBara

      Also, and I know I just said this and I’m sorry about that, but, the “should I sit like this?” was TOTALLY aimed at folks like US. I LOL’d!

      • kickingit101

        I don’t know about that, she was talking about dancing and having to have proper posture right before they went to the Scientology topic.

    • BananaSplits8

      “Over time her eyes were opened and she could no longer be affiliated with the organization and her family agreed”

      Bets on for Kirstie’s next tweet: “people are as fucked up as their treason family. #nohate. Peace I love everyone”

      • ze moo

        You forgot ‘and where are the donuts?’……

    • Doug Parent

      Good point Synthia. She made no statements specifically about the technology or even church policy. Anyone inside the Kool-Aid Implant Station listening to this little snippet has their own subjective experience with “the organization” and everyone inside has their share of “mis-adventure” with said “organization”. Of course most have self-applied the “not-is” sticky anti cognizant stupid grease to their awareness of awareness unit so as to dull and numb the excruciating grinding and crushing of their integrity under the tank treads of the no holds barred over the rampart win or die in the attempt planetary clearing monster truck.

    • DamOTclese2

      If there really is going to be a Leah book, I will certainly purchase the hardback version. So many of us are saturated with information about the criminal enterprise already, and the Unauthorized Biography is really the only thing “recent” that was in any way informative that did not already cover what was mostly known. Leah’s book should provide insights in to things we have not yet heard before, or things we have heard only little about.

      Obsessive Scientology-crime-watchers inside the Bunker as well as outside the Bunker should be looking forward to any book that Leah produces. I for damn sure will be pre-release ordering my copy.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    If Ellen talks about, then you can bet the world will talk about. Ellen is a very brave, wonderful woman who knows what the ugly side of humanity looks like. Her bringing it up today was not an ambush. In all probability, Leah arranged to come on the show just so Ellen could ask that question. In any event, it is a very good thing.

  • Marc Headley

    This is huge and I will tell you why.

    Ten years ago, if you were in scientology and also a celebrity the LAST thing you would do is admit that you left or even tell your family and friends. Now you can leave, bring your family with you and be open and honest about it.

    Leah will most likely see the same thing that many others have seen once they leave. You will have a lot more time in your life to concentrate on what really matters with all the drama and distractions from scientology gone. Suddenly a busy career and family are a breeze without the constant time and income drain that scientology demands.

    It wont hurt that you can stop trying to assign random significances to anything and everything that happens in your life. Or not having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars because your eyes are starting to open to the abuses going on all around you.

    You can scrap the plans for the library add-on to the house to store all the new versions of the books scientology will constantly be releasing due to finding commas and periods in the wrongs places.

    Best of all, you can just live your life and not have to worry about Invasion of the Body Snatchers being your life story.

    I am pretty sure that Leah will be added to what will eventually be a long list of people that leave the abusive criminal organization that is known as scientology.

    Good luck Leah!

    • That was a hell of a great summary! Spot on. I’m still laughing. 😀

    • Moonshot

      Hey Marc,
      Do you ever have a nightmare where, in the dream you find that, despite all that has happened prior to escapting the Sea Org, you have re-joined the Sea Org?

      I was so relieved when i got the fuck away from the S.O.

      I almost never have nightmares, but about once a year i will have a very vivid dream where all of a sudden i find myslef back in uniform and back on post. The dream never includes the decision and action of rejoining, its always past history and i’m already there.

      Each time this dream happens, i’m sitting there at my desk thinking to myself in a panic “What the fuck did i just do? Why the fuck did i re-join the Sea Org!? What the fuck was i THINKING!!!!!”

      From there i break out in a cold sweat and start franticlly planning my next escape.

      When i wake up i’m drenched in sweat and worried as hell. That dream REALLY sucks. However, when i realize where i am and that i am forever away from the S.O, i get to relive the sense of relief and joy i felt when i first got away.

      You ever have a dream/nighmare like that?

      • Mooser

        My most disturbing dreams can usually trace their origin to an over-indulgence in broiled or barbecued meat. Traumatic events or states of mind from years ago can come back, and leave me convinced, for a time, the dream is true when I awake. A nasty feeling, until it fades. And it’s all about that “undigested blot of beef” Dickens warned us about.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Not even Close to being a funny response to an Obviously sincere description of PTSD.

          • GlibWog

            I took it that Mooser Is a Vegan and has sincere belief system in place about never eating MEAT…

            and his nightmare is that he eats meat and it does terrify him. / her Unless I am way off base here..

        • richelieu jr

          Seemed sincere to me, THDNE…

      • iHateDuplicity

        YES!!!! Moonshot, I have had the exact same thing happen more than once!! It scared the hell out of me! OMG I thought I was the only one. Waking up from that is such a HUGE relief. The nightmares have been coming less and less as time has gone on and I figured it was just part of the decompression process.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Everyone has those dreams. The re occurrences, the frequencies, the sudden onset, the timings differ. But everyone has those dreams, or as I like to call them, nightmares.

          Here’s a starter link for some help with that…like what is triggering them, and you can find a whole bunch of links from there at Steven Hassan’s “Freedom of MInd” site.

          http://youtu.be/zF1hBrYqCe8

          • Robert Eckert

            Uh… what you have linked to is a YouTube video of “The congregation of Cochesett UMC sing “Amen” ending Easter Service”

            • Observer

              For some reason I cannot stop laughing at this.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hell, I was just going for a rich “Ahhhhhmen”. But how about “At Last” instead?

              http://youtu.be/S-cbOl96RFM

            • Miss Tia

              Me too!!! LMAO!!

          • ThetaBara

            Thanks for saying that, THDNE. I also have PTSD dreams and they suck.
            But, as time passes, I have noticed that I have become more powerful and have more agency in the dreams. I think it is a form of processing. Once I was able to lock a door between me and the abuser. It felt amazing.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              That sounds like a helpful tool and yeah, it’s amazing what you can do in these situations. I used to have ones that included dreaded sudden pounding on the door from the Sea Org. Now, if having a nightmare, though rare, I inject a door knock sound of my own, and wake Right up. Of course, all situations are unique.

            • GlibWog

              Thank God you were able to lock that damn door Theta.. HORAAAAAAY

          • Poison Ivy

            There’s a phenomenon called “Floating,” where someone who was once in a mind control cult re-experiences the siren call and sometimes even the euphoria of cult beliefs, even as they are out of the cult and working their way through recovery. I wonder, has that happened to any of you exes? It’s been described by some as almost a trance state.

        • Moonshot

          Yeah? You too? Cool, we are not alone.

          Did u ever notice while a staff member that you and others were never slammed harder than when you actually strove to do your post EXACTLY as LRH dictated in the appropriate Policy letters of that post?

          If you followed the illegal orders of the Commanding Officer (or other big exec), you where set up for heavy ethics later for following such orders (as, eventually, every post in a SO Org collapses in disaster, and anyone on said post prior to that will be investigated).

          If, on the other hand, you remained faithful to policy and refused all threats and screaming entreaties of the C.O (or other senior exec), you would be subjected to an escalating series of threats and abuses. After all, insubordination is also a High Crime in the S.O. Being threatened with a Declare from an interested CMO puke was not out of the realm of possiblity.

          I hate those fuckers, and i hate that system. I used to think that somehow it was all a sad accident, that too many “untrained” staff and execs lead to that sorry state of affairs.
          But, after time and reflection, i realized thats not really the case. Thats just the way the Sea Org is. LRH actually set it up so that any post holder at any time can be slammed and abused by those above. There is no refuge in following policy, and there is no refuge in following an order.

          That’s not assigned or assumed responsibility. That is fucking people over by design.
          Well, Mr L. Ron Hubbard, where ever you are now, you are a fucking asshole for setting up the mindfuck you called the Sea Org.

          Thank you, SIR!

          • Missionary Kid

            Gee, don’t hold back. 🙂

            I’m glad that you stayed here. I made the mistake of thinking you were a Kool Aid drinker at first. This is a good place to unload. There’s resources here for you that are beyond belief.

            Yup, LRH set everything up to screw everybody else. DM is just the second iteration of his bullshit.

            • Moonshot

              Thanks Kid, i appreciate the positive feedback. I’m glad i stayed too.

              And you are right about DM and LRH both.

              Any kind words i gave regarding the Tech, are only becuase i believe in giving credit where credit is due. When i first got in there where some things i found cool. But whereas that may have blinded me as to the overall destructive nature of the scene at one time, that has not been the case for a long long time.

              If the re-animated avatar of Henry Ford showed up one day and gave me the keys to a brand new F150 Crew Cab Texas Edition, i sure might sing the praises of that truck and the man for his generosity. But if 2 years later i found out he has stolen my wife, shot my dog, and given all my business secrets to my worst competitors, i still might sing the praises of that quality truck his company put out, but i would have some choice words to say about everything else.

            • Missionary Kid

              Well put.

              The problem, as I see it, is that there are psychological gains that are made initially with Co$. IMO, they are the same things that would be gotten with normal counseling, but people in Co$ are taught to talk about them as if they’re breakthroughs, and to have every one else encourage that talk.

              It’s my belief that those same self-revelations would be found in normal counseling, but that they would be treated as simply the first steps towards taking more control of one’s own life. A client in counseling isn’t encouraged to declare that they had a “win” but to summarize what they learned, and what they intend to do about what they learned.

              As someone has said, the job of a good therapist is to help you so you fire them, because you don’t need them any more. That’s quite different from Co$, where one is told that the only way to make progress (as in, “up the bridge”) is by getting deeper into Co$, where one is told that’s the only way to “total freedom,” and that to stop is heresy, and if you leave, you are apostate.

              What a pack of lies and deception LRH devised.

            • Moonshot

              Yes, i largely agree with you. I know that therapy can and will unrepress and realize emotional release.
              One area where i still see the Auditing superior is in identifying areas for immediate address. I’m sure you consider the e-meter sheer quackery, but i have trained on that device and obsreved it quite closely and it does give consistent readings on specific emotional states of the person under therapy.
              Contrary to what the LRH claimed, he did not invent that device. He did refine and improve it, but the orginal galvometer was invented by pscychological researcher sometime in the 1920’s, if i’m not mistaken. Somebody (a Scn hater) found the orginal research on this and put in online. Interesting stuff.
              The galvometer doesnt do any therapy itself. What it does do is act as an assist to the therapist to help guide the therapee to identfy subjects to take up and addres in the therapy.

            • Missionary Kid

              The real test would be to have a third person control the e-meter, and to see if both parties’ reaction to the meter is the result of actual readings or other visual cues.

              I’m willing to bet that you are a pretty empathetic individual, which would make the use of the e-meter more effective.

              I’m a big believer in double blind experiments, as you can tell.

            • Plotinus

              Especially the prospective randomized trials.

            • Moonshot

              Sure, i have know doubt it would hold up. The person “operating” the device doesnt do much other than observe the swing of the dial.
              The person holding the cans can “trick” the meter by subtly squeezing the cans to fake reads, but assuming the person actually wants help with the therapy, they have no reason to do that.
              Now, in hubbards wonderful Security Checking, that’s another matter. Then the Inquisiter really needs to watch that bastard holding the cans REALLY close to make sure they arent causing FASLE reads in order to put one over on them.

            • Missionary Kid

              You might read what Claire Headley said about fooling the e-meter, if not the last time she was featured, one or two times before.

            • Moonshot

              If you and i were in a room, i could show you in 60 seconds how the meter works, what it does.
              I would give you the cans and you would hold them. We both would face the meter. I would say something like “think of a time when you burned your hand very badly.” …everyone’s burned their hand at some time.
              Now, i cant know what u think of or when you think of it, but you do. Before this the dial arm would just be sort of meandering randomly. Well, as your watching the meter and you think of the burn, you would see the arm jerk sharply at the exact moment you though of the burn.
              Then i would talk to you and u would stop thinking about the burn. The dial goes random again. Then i say “think of that burn again.” Same thing happens. Thats all.
              It could be used in guiding for any therapy, not just SCN.

            • Plotinus

              It’s habituation of a memory. Fine, but no evidence.

            • Moonshot

              No trials necessary. The galvometer is only really of use on people who, strictly speaking, dont really need it.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yes, it only reacts to emotion. It isn’t necessarily negative emotions that it reacts to, but the autonomous nervous system. Excietement will also produce the same time of reading.

              It is not a surgical instrument, but a sledge hammer. If it were better, It could be used in court. Even a polygraph, which measures all sorts of other physiological changes in addition to galvonic skin response, can’t detect whether a person is telling the truth or not.

              In counseling, there are many more ways for a person to deal with their problems. If one keeps to the theory that there has to be a specific cause, and keeps looking for that cause, instead of working on their behavior, little progress will take place, because the person is spending an inordinate amount of time navel chewing. (Substitute engram where appropriate).

              Today, that approach has pretty much been discarded in both psychiatry and psychology.

              What most “psychs” deal with now is behavior first, then, if it’s still important, the reasons behind it. Most are Behaviorists, which is a field that developed after LRH stole his techniques. His “tech” is at least 50 years behind.

            • Moonshot

              I agree with you on those point fullly. Just one point, is the meter does give a different reads for “good” emotions than it does for “negative” ones. It’s stil not a particularly refined device, but it doesnt need to be because i am very sure its not appropriate for any therapist dealing with physchosis or any sort of abnormal behavior.

              This is my theory, after my experience with the “tech” and the meter, etc:
              Hubbard claimed to have had the ability to cure any mential abnormaility. BUT wouldnt you know it, those damn SP’s were hoppping up crazy people on extra mind killing drugs making them incurable and sending them into Hubbard Churchs just to make poor old LRH look bad when he or his people tried his therapies on them.

              So, he forebade auditing for anybody who ever took phych drugs or ever saw a psych. Well, thats convenient, cuz now we can never know if he can cure any of those folks that have abnormal psychologies or severe mental prolems.

              My take on is that LRH never was able to cure those folks or even help them. More than likely his therapies, tried on someone mentally unstable would make them worse. Maybe fantastically worse. The only person that i know of that the church allowed to be audited who had severe mental issues going on, was Lisa McPherson, and looked how that turned out.

              So, the danger of using the meter to Guide someone into spotting areas of mental trauma that lie just below consious awareness, is that, if that person has any psychosis, it will put them into something they simply arent able to deal with, and they will be put into a bad mental state.

            • Missionary Kid

              Cash trumps coherence in Scientology.” – Vance Woodward

              I don’t know if you remember the Wayans brothers on In Living Color, but they had a routine where they played a couple of hustlers, and their catch phrase was, “Mo money, mo money, mo money.” That’s all that Hubbard was about, and now DM is about the same thing.

              Lisa McPherson was probably a sane individual when she came to Co$, but sleep and food deprivation, and loading her up with all the crap that is in the Hubbard Joy Juice probably threw her electrolytes off and drove her nuts. DM and the crew, since it’s all they knew, followed the Co$ dictum, which someone else put so aptly, “If what you’re doing doesn’t work, do MORE of it.” and another person said, “If there’s one thing I’ve learned about Scientology, it’s that they never learn.”

              The “tech” is bad and evil, and by following it, DM & the gang, spread the evil further.

              Basically, all LRH wanted was people who were neurotic and who had self doubts. I believe on some level, we all are neurotic and at certain points in our lives, have more self doubts. That’s when Dianetics, and later, $cientology, pounce. He didn’t want the real drug addict, or the person who’s really mentally ill, because he knew he couldn’t cure them, but he made the claims anyway, like any snake oil salesman.

              Actually, the guy who took apart the e-meter in e-meter autopsy part 1 and 2 had a pretty good explanation of how one works. It really isn’t an answer for counseling, because it’s a dead end because everything is self-referencing and tied up with circular logic, but Co$ keeps telling everyone that it is the answer.

              I think the e-meter works in sec-checking because of the Placebo effect. People think it works, so they answer accordingly. It’s been demonstrated that some practitioners of Zen Budhism are able to control their autonomous nervous system to the extent that they can control their heartbeat. I would imagine that they would be able to control the cues for an e-meter.

              Claire, who grew up in Co$, had no fear of it, and just thought of other things.

            • Poison Ivy

              Glad you stayed too, Moonshot – you have a lot to offer.

              Re: the e-meter – speaking as a never-in but someone pretty educated on this stuff, even pre-Bunker, I’d agree it is a good general “guide” to elevated emotional states. But the truth is, it’s not nearly as refined and sensitive as modern day “lie detectors” used by the FBI. Not even close. (I have close friends & colleagues who are retired FBI and ATF so I’m not pulling this out of my ass) And even those results are not admissible in court, for a very good reason. They are totally unverifiable. When someone has a reading of “deceptive”, for instance, studies have shown that these readings can be caused by generalized anxiety, stress, upset, etc. So if I ask you, “Did you kill your wife” and you have an emotional reaction to that which is later analyzed by the operator to be “deceptive,” you may be lying about whether or not you killed your wife. You may have done it and feel guilty. You may be emotionally distraught that someone else killed your wife and having trouble keeping it together just to get through the test. You may feel terribly guilty because of a fight you and your wife had before she was killed and your last words to her were cruel. You may feel guilty because you actually wanted to divorce your wife and aren’t sad she’s gone, but you didn’t kill her. Etc. etc.

              Conversely, drug use, self-hypnosis/bio-feedback, and just plain sociopathic personalities can fool the lie detector.

              Law enforcement uses the polygraph because it is a good guide for further investigation. But it doesn’t “know” anything, which is why it can’t be admitted in court. And neither does the less sophisticated e-meter.

            • Doug Parent

              The E-Meter does not need to be as refined as a lie detector. The refinement (if you will) is that the auditor has a clue what the needle manifestations means and generally has a clue how to deal with it. I don’t expect anyone who has never had any gains in auditing or experience as an auditor to understand or appreciate it thus but that is my take. If other therapies had as highly developed techniques that accompanied (whatever biofeedback deice) they were using then I think we’d be discussing that.

            • Plotinus

              Therapy with a galvanometer. It’s been around for decades. It’s called biofeedback. Quite sophisticated these days. The newer computer-based units measure your heart rate and respiration, and even your heart rated variability (HRV) which is a measure of autonomic stress. Hubbard’s emeter is stuck in the 1950s, and is a fire hazard.

            • Missionary Kid

              Naw, it isn’t a fire hazard. It’s battery operated, and the voltages are pretty low.

            • Plotinus

              But the recharger…. it’s an 120 AC converter without surge protection

              The classic “autopsy” of an emeter:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHDMEBoOYXo

            • Missionary Kid

              There’s a lot of chargers that don’t have surge protection. Is it plugged in to the charger all the time? There are all sorts of battery chargers that simply break down under a surge.

              I know that Co$ tries to withhold bad news, but even then, someone would be hearing about house, charger, or e-meter fires. Have you?

            • Plotinus

              I dunno, the guy in the video seems knowledgeable, and has great credentials

            • Missionary Kid

              He does sound knowledgeable, but he also said he’d never heard of one burning up. Surges really aren’t the problem. If lightning strikes a power pole close by, the surge might cause a fire, but the pulse would be so large it would also blow out a lot of other electronic devices as well.

              Even in the 80s, the “tech” was 20 years behind the times.

            • joan nieman

              Maybe a good way to get a hair perm!

            • Doug Parent

              And the meter charges in a few hours and is then unplugged. My modem does not have a third/seperate grounding pin on the plug and it’s plugged in all the time.

            • Missionary Kid

              Your modem, though, may be polarized. The plug will have one blade larger than the other, which goes into the neutral side. There are a number of protections that are based on that. The smaller blade is the “hot side.”

              Neutral has virtually the same electrical potential as ground.

            • Poison Ivy

              Exactly. FBI polygraphs are even more sophisticated. They make the e-meter look like a kid’s toy.

            • joan nieman

              Again well said.

            • Poison Ivy

              The difference is, with standard therapy, there is no “magical thinking” attached to the gains. When gains happen fast in therapy (usually they don’t, but someone who has never openly talked/been listened to about deep-seated issues can have powerful early sessions), the therapist does not ask you to “write down your wins” – as if they were lightning bolts from Zeus. There is an understanding that this is a gradual process and nothing supernatural is happening (engrams suddenly lifted, for good – now you’re “clear” and your IQ has gone up, etc.) It’s so prosaic compared to Scientology (or est, or Landmark, or any other cult with a self-help hook to it.)

              The power of suggestion is a big part of why these Scientology gains may seem to be miraculous to someone who has them.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen! Well put.

            • joan nieman

              A word on Leah..she looks like she is doing fine and will speak when she is ready.

            • Clear#4213

              Very well said, Moonshot.

            • GlibWog

              Oh Hell Yes.. not only resources here for moon and others, but what he is sharing..

              So valuable.. Someone will read and say.. ” OMG I thought it was just me.. ”

              We never know when one of us are going to PLANT that seed for someone to blow..

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe that by the time someone ends up posting here, they’ve pretty much blown already, but hopefully the lurkers, by coming here and reading have that realization that they’re not alone.

            • GlibWog

              I keep thinking of Magoo.. I know it’s a different scenerio.. but Ya never know..

          • DodoTheLaser

            Scientology Org Board promoted as a perfect, whole track based, improved and optimized model of effective organization.

            In reality – it’s a fucking monkey house.

          • q-bird

            “too many “untrained” staff and execs lead to… sorry state of affairs.”

            This is interesting. There is a practicing scientologist fellow who pops in here now and again — Theo, he comes over from Marty’s blog & comments & debates. The first time he was here I asked him why he had been declared, kicked off the team. He provided a link about his own personal experience with CO$. I read his testimony; it was difficult for me because of the jargon. But I got it, what happened to him, while he was in. It took him much longer to explain his experience than you just did up there ^^^^^ Moonshot, but it was exactly the same realization. Nothing went right, no matter who he turned to for help, no refuge to be found anywhere inside.

            His conclusion was/is different than yours however. For him, Hubtard’s philosophy is still {{great!}} – it’s just the organized {{church}} that’s fucked up….

            nightmarish – you got that right.

            • GlibWog

              Yep! Hopefully Mr. Theo’s is lurking.. and learning something.

            • Poison Ivy

              This was how Marty started. He seems to be evolving somewhat. Mike Rinder…well, it’s hard to say with him because his blog is so laser-focused on the abuses in the church. It’s an outstanding blog and he can get tips that Tony can’t because he’s apparently still a believer. Re-reading “Piece of Blue Sky,” it stuns me even more that Mike stands by LRH’s “genius.” But he’s doing a lot of good with his blog, he’s quite brilliant and who am I to tell him what to believe.

            • q-bird

              Hello PI – flat out, I too am no one to tell anyone what to believe or not. Agreed. Theo is so very enthusiastic & happy with his philosophy & he expresses himself as well as can be. I listen to him & try to understand. Live & let live I personally believe. I happened to ‘see’ Rinder FIRST as a spokesman for CO$ – and he was so good at it & I ‘liked’ him even though I was already beginning to truly hate this criminal organization – Oh so smooth & slick with his earnest lies… he’s cute, gota a nice Aussie accent, he seems sincere. THEN I ‘see’ him saying, “Oh I was lying then, but now I’m not.” Well alrighty then: yes laser sharp he is, but I will never trust him & what he says. I do like his writings at his blog, I go over there ONLY when directed by trustworthy bunkerites however. Yes stunning to me too, his love of Hubbard, after all he has been through and continues to go through.

              dumbfounding to me.

          • Robert Eckert
        • DodoTheLaser

          “The nightmares have been coming less and less as time has gone on and I figured it was just part of the decompression process.”

          This ^^^

      • Robert Eckert

        For several years after I got sober, I would have drinking dreams, not an uncommon experience. But like in your dreams, it wasn’t that I was drinking, oh no, it was that I had been drinking and I was kicking myself, why the hell did I get drunk again?

        • georget1952

          I have had those dreams too Robert. I have over 12 years sober, yet I have dreams that I am in a bar and totally drunk. When I wake up I even feel drunk for a moment or two and am totally convinced that I went back out. Scary, but my counselor from when I first got sober told me I would have those dreams. They are very few and far between now and they can really mess with you for those first seconds after waking up….for sure. And it IS that, “why did I do that?” moment all over again.

        • richelieu jr

          I have similar dreams, but with speed or heroin and I am back on them (I’ve been off for 20 years)…

          Before, when I was just off and had only quit for a few years, I used to have dreams where I had a little and just needed to find a cool place to shoot up, but kept getting interrupted and frustrated.. It was horrible as it was very stressful and seemed to go on forever..

          • ThetaBara

            I have had so many dreams where the abuser was right there and I had to deal with him somehow (not necessarily fend him off directly, but deal with him one way or another) and, over time in these dreams I have become more and more powerful and he has become weaker and weaker. I think it is a form of processing. And I sincerely hope to never have another dream where I have to deal with that manipulative asshole ever again. But it’s not as bad as having to deal with him in real life, because eventually I always wake up. Even if I am drenched in sweat.

            • MadMaxi

              Agree with the PTSD dreams, they suck and leave that WTF? lingering feel that has to fade after waking, but as years pass the intensity and frequency fades. Learning how to lucid dream helps for those who are able. But I’ll take the nightmares over the waking flashback hallucinations any day, thank God those do fade quickly. Decompression a must for any traumatic event, especially if long term. Darn ex’s, forgiving my ex was the main thing that lead to healing for me.

              Time heals the wounds. Giving and receiving unconditional love transforms the dark fear into light filled wisdom.

            • joan nieman

              Kill him in your next dream Theta!

            • ThetaBara

              Ehh, I appreciate the sentiment, but in the last one he was pretty pathetic. 🙂 But thank you for your support. The very worst part of it was that a number of mutual friends (all of whom I had known for longer than he had) decided to be neutral about it, even after being told what had happened. I’ve decided I have to write that off to the truth being so horrifying that they’d prefer not to believe it. Which sucked for me, but is a pretty common reaction to hearing really bad things.

          • Missionary Kid

            I hope you mean that the dreams had you back on, and not that you actually are back on. 🙂

            • richelieu jr

              Nah, that’s long behind me, MK!

            • Missionary Kid

              I figured that was true, but sometimes English can be so indefinite. Congratulations for putting it behind you.

          • WildaBeast

            FUUUUCK I hate those dreams! Thank God I almost never remember my dreams, because even the few I’ve had and remembered were horrible. I don’t know what’s worse, waking up and realizing I dreamed about it, or the fact that I don’t end up being able to do the stupid dream-dope before I wake up…

            • GlibWog

              I always remember my dreams.. I am on Paxil.. and there is nothing worse that a Paxil/.. antidepressant nightmare..

              They are like Fucking Movies. The Colors are beyond vivid. ..Ongoing ..They seem like they last hours and hours and hours..

              The worse that I have is about my twin dying.. and I can’t save her. She died of a Brain Tumor in my arms as I spoke her into the light..

              The movie in my head is so sad and I am sobbing.. ( in my nightmare and into my pillow..)
              and also terrifying because like I have a pill that could save her,

              but I don’t get there in time because my legs are to heavy and can’t take the steps.. Awful..
              and then I look at her dying and see me.. laying with her.. just terrible..

            • joan nieman

              Aw! Glib! That is sad.

            • GlibWog

              Awww Joan.. It is so sad .. when I wake up.. I am just sobbing.. I was a twin for 58 years. It has been difficult living as a singleton. My struggles show up in my dreams.

              Maybe that is why I put off sleeping.. sigh

              Welcome Welcome to the Bunker sweet woman. Glibby..

            • aquaclara

              So sorry for your pain, Glibby. Thinking of you…..

            • GlibWog

              Thank you aqua.. that means a lot to me..

              MissionaryKid and I just had a therapy session..

              In was very therapeutic and needed.. ; )

              I just have met such special people ( like you ) in the Bunker.. It is nice to connect with caring people..

            • aquaclara

              Missionary Kid is so good at this. The relationship you have had with your sister is so special and complex. There must be a lot of good memories, too. You probably don’t need this, but one of our favorite authors here at the Bunker, Lawrence Wright, also wrote a book about twins. It is quite well done. Hope you feel better today.

            • GlibWog

              Just brushed my teeth and on my way to bed..

              Yes.. He is very good.. Yes so very special. I read Wright’s book about Scn. I did not know he wrote one about Twins.. I will certainly look into that.. Wow..

              OH Aqua.. I already feel better I do I do… thanks honey.. really.. ok..night ……….see you when I wake up!

            • Missionary Kid

              What does your therapist say about it?

              I’ve had dreams like that, but not so intense. Several times, I dreamt I was still married to my ex. I didn’t wake up in a cold sweat, but I sure was glad I woke up.

            • GlibWog

              I went to a therapist because I couldn’t stop sobbing for 3 years… hid away in my bedroom with the drapes closed screaming out her name when I gave into sleep..

              ( OH shit Now I’m crying.. ) …. but when I went to the therapist I just sobbed.. Nothing productive .. so she sent me to a Psychiatrist and he just prescribed Additional Meds on top of the Paxil..

              So I was just a zombie.. I stopped sobbing, but tears ran down my face because my soul knew I should be crying..

              So eventually I was taken off the additional meds because I didn’t want to live like that..
              No therapy .. for me now..

              Now I cope the best I can. Time has NOT healed a thing. I do give in to my emotions.

              I have my ( insert name of twin) days and give in .. I am NOT a martyr. I live with my hubby and my children are far away..

              I can FAKE it when I see them…but my hubby allows me to be myself and I don’t have to explain my moods to him.. ( Thank God)

            • Plotinus

              Please be aware that there are withdrawal effects if you ever decide to stop Paxil. Most people don’t know that.

            • GlibWog

              OMG yes Plotinus..

              I will take it until Death do us Part.. I have read the horror stories.. ugh.. Thank you though..

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Oh, so sorry Glib. Very glad you have a supportive partner.

            • GlibWog

              Thank you Michael.. My hubby is my absolute Best friend in the world! He is my rock.
              I instructed others how to deal with the loss of their loved ones for 30 yrs.

              Good God what a Fraud I was.. when it came to my grief..

              ” I Couldn’t Handle the Truth..” ha…

              I’m right where I’m supposed to be though Michael..

              This Forum proves ones thing to me..

              You don’t have to be a Scientologist or an Ex to be fucked up..haha

              I have made nice friends here…

            • Missionary Kid

              It sounds like you’ve got a great hubby. You’re lucky to have someone like that. Give him a hug from me. It sounds like he deserves it.

              Grief is a toughie. (Not to be, pardon the expression, glib). One of my sisters lost her husband to cancer. Both before and after his death, she needed to “discharge” her feelings. For that, she used Reevaluation Counseling, something that has elements of $cientology, but just in some of the terminology, IMO. It’s basically free, or very low cost, and one can use it as much as one wants.

              The catch is that you spend half an hour actively listening to another person, and they do the same for you. One doesn’t place their “material” on the other person when it’s their turn. When it’s your turn, the only thing the other person does is keep you focused on your emotions. If a person says they don’t want to go there, you don’t push it, but sometimes people don’t even realize they’re avoiding something.

              My sister often would schedule sessions with different people one after another, and spent her time, according to her, just crying. (Another rule: only what a person divulges themselves to anyone else is allowed). You don’t talk about someone else’s material.

              Basically, she got cried out. The difference was, IMO, that it was to another person, and not alone, in a room.

              She also went to regular counseling, and eventually joined a grief support group. That was 15 years ago, and she’s remarried and happy. She hasn’t forgotten her dead husband, but she is in a better place.

              The problem with RC is that it can vary with the different communities. She lived in L.A. at the time.

              She also found her grief support group to be very helpful, because they were all people who had lost someone close.

              IMO, losing a twin has to be the toughest, because you’ve spent all your life with them. It must be like losing a part of yourself. Being here probably keeps you thinking about our problems instead of yours.

              You’ve been a real asset here. It must give you a chance to exercise your snark.

              Remember, too, that as a client, if one therapist isn’t meeting your needs, as a consumer, ask for a different one.

            • GlibWog

              You know Kid.. It is funny.. My obsession with the cult ..reading the books and coming here is the absolute best therapy I could give myself. It is very interesting.

              I used to facilitate support groups and been in a couple.. NOT my THANG.. It just isn’t..

              I’m just not a social person at all. I feel comfortable living in the outskirts and getting to know myself ( and nature) on a deeper spiritual level. Introspection and discovering is my way of life.

              I thrive for contentment and I have it. My wants and needs are very little. When sadness washes over me I embrace it.

              I am living proof that one can live with Half of a heart. and I know that I will be with her one day.. ( OK now everyone you can groan..ha..)

              but for me.. I believe it. I am so glad your sister has found another love.. so wonderful..

              and that RC counseling worked for her. I know myself enough to know myself..ha..

              Unless there was another twin who lost her/his twin.. I just couldn’t relate.. I know pain is pain..( I would never ever attempt to trump anyone’s pain in a million years.. )

              I just feel more secure hanging on to mine.. ( OK.. damn.. tears flowing..)

            • Robert Eckert

              Support-group sessions work better for some things than others. A friend of mine who is bipolar says that the bipolar groups were worse than useless: either somebody would be in a manic state and completely dominate, talking about his crap; or everybody would be depressed, and bring each other down until the group was ready for a mass suicide.

            • GlibWog

              Robert.. OMG.. Hilarious.. Not that your friend has bipolar, but I used to run those groups in MH.

              and right beside them would be Hitler and Jesus.. Getting them to relate was just another fun day at Work..

              They do have a Twinless Twins support group.. but there is no forum. But the premise is that twins at any age.. OK we are talking about in utero .. here.. or the twin died at birth.. or 9 days later.. It’s hard to relate..

              They are missing something in their life ( LIke Elvis always mourned for his brother..) but I don’t want to bring them up.. ( bawwwwwwwwwwahhahaha )… Good Lord don’t they know it’s All about me?

              My Coping mechanism has always been Avoidance. So if she died at a hosp. I would just avoid going there.. I haven’t been to the cemetery and do not have one picture of her..

              It’s not necessary.. I look in the mirror and see her. My hands, my laughter, my voice all belong to her also. The way I cover my eyes when I sleep and hold my pinky out when I drink my diet coke. They are 100% her..

              How in the Fuck can I avoid that? So everyday I confront it.. Same .. I am typing now and seeing her stubby fingers..

              So That is my story.. We have been written up in a book.. but I can’t disclose it because of You know what..sigh..

            • GlibWog

              OK.. I am going to take a bath and read.. I feel like I’ve been plugged into the fuckin

              soup cans tonight.. I have never, ever talked this much about my grief. Thank you all.. Love Glibby..

            • Robert Eckert

              Sweet dreams!

            • Casabeca

              Love right back to you ((hugs)).

            • GlibWog

              awwwwww Cas.. Thank you.. MY God.. I sound so self absorbed tonight..God..

            • Missionary Kid

              Do what you need to do.

              If I write something that is too intrusive, just tell me to stop because I am an SOB.

              I’m of the opinion that one doesn’t need to have a counselor who has the same experience.

              When I worked in alcoholism (not as a counselor, but doing economic research), there were people in the AA community that maintained that only a recovering alcoholic could counsel or work with an alcoholic. The head of the county alcoholism program was internationally recognized as an expert in the field of alcoholism, but some in the local AA community were gunning for him because he wasn’t a recovering alcoholic. That seems to be somewhat your logic.

              In any event, have you looked for a counselor who is a former twin? Perhaps your area is too small, but, with the resources of the internet, you should be able to find one.

              For her co-counseling, my sister actually went to people who didn’t have grief issues. That way, they didn’t restimulate each other. To put it in her words, that way, they didn’t get into each others shit.

              Yes, your experience in losing a twin is devastating, but I believe that there’s a lot of other common points that other people have who’ve lost loved ones.

              Your last sentence could be read that you feel more secure holding on to the pain, instead of your sister. Could it be that you believe deep down, that if you get rid of the pain, that you will lose your sister? Is that what you really fear, so you’re hanging on to the pain, because it is comforting?

              If that’s what you believe, and I hope it isn’t, you will continue crying. IMO, the whole thing about needing a twin to counsel with is just an obstacle so you can stay stuck and comfortable in knowing that while you have pain, your sister is still around.

              Are you really grieving, or are you really afraid, because you believe that your sister and you were really two parts of one? She still is a part of you, but are you holding on to the pain because you fear losing yourself?

              O.K. I’m an asshole, and a disembodied typist out in the ether. One word from you, and this is the last I’ll say of any of this.

            • GlibWog

              Kid.. No I love brainstorming with you.. Seriously.. It is apparently what I needed tonight.. or I wouldn’t be gabbing so much. This has become my safety zone..

              I absolutely understand the AA concept… and the thinking behind it.. ( I worked with addicts in MH for 30 years..)

              I am not an alcoholic, but did work with them and I was the only one on my committee to not be in recovery.. I do believe that I did relate on a different level than my colleagues did.

              and I did recognize that the clients could relate to my colleagues struggles than I. That said my X was in recovery so I saw it from the other side.

              So yes.. from my experience that is my logic.

              No I haven’t looked for a Therapist who is a twin on line. I usually can cope better. I am feeling very vulnerable right now because my Narcissistic Daughter Disconnected from me..

              So of course when you are hurt you go to the deepest level.. which is my twin.

              The pain.. Hmmmm.. Interesting… I am not actually hanging onto me as much as it is me.

              The tears when they come wash over me and give me relief.

              Interesting questions. With or without the pain my sister ( I’ll call her Molly) is always around.. Always.. She is the oxygen I breathe and my heartbeat.

              I don’t fear losing myself. I am so proud at how I am living my life. It doesn’t sound like it tonight…

              but I really am proud of myself for what I have accomplished since her death..

              ( but I can’t tell you because it would give to much detail about me.. ) but I have achieved and done a lot..

            • GlibWog

              awwwww Kid you are NOT an asshole.. You just sound like someone who cares.

              Twins are interesting studies..

            • Missionary Kid

              Just as I was starting to write, I got your second post. Thanks. The fact that you didn’t flame me says that you understood where I’m coming from.

              As to being an asshole… One of my personal sayings is that Horoscopes are a way of telling a person they’re an asshole without them getting pissed.

              Now, I’ll reply to your longer post.

              BTW. You owe me 5 cents. I charge the same as Lucy, and my advice can be just as bad. 😉

            • GlibWog

              hahahhahaha.. Oh I absolutely know where you are coming from..

              You didn’t tell me to * Buck Up* and get over it either.. Cause I won’t ..

              We all have emotions. I’m sad.. Of course I’m sad.. My twin died. Cause and Effect.

              Am I ruining or wasting my life.. NOPE..

              Love your horoscope story..hahahhaa

              You know I will sign a billion year contract and at the end of that contract I will give you that 5 cents. How about that?

            • GlibWog

              ONE Thing I will add….

              There ain’t NO such thing as Closure.

              I’m a Realist.. I know Molly died. I’ve accepted it.. But Closure? What a joke..

            • Missionary Kid

              Dammit! I’m trying to put together another one of my pedantic, supercilious, posts, and you keep coming up with better ones.

              I agree, there is no such thing as closure, but I believe the hurt fades.

            • GlibWog

              Oh you silly.. Using all those big words Kid..

              Fades, huh? Hmmm haven’t experienced that yet.

              With other family members.. Yes.. absolutely.. With Molly? Oh my darlin I’m always a scratch away from a sob..

              I couldn’t imagine in a million years the hurt fading.

              But that’s me. Cancer the Crab .. going into my shell when something hurts.. Hanging on with my claw..

              ( OK.. talk about Horoscope shit..hahahhahaha )

            • Missionary Kid

              Fades. Think of how you are now, and how you were just after your sister died. (Sometimes there’s a delayed onset of grief – you know, denial and all that shit).

              I’ll bet there’s a difference.

            • GlibWog

              Kid..

              Yes.. there is a difference.. and I can get out of bed.. and I can shower and brush my teeth.. and I can watch a beautiful sunrise and sunset and see the beautiful colors..

              and I do want to be Alive….

            • Missionary Kid

              Enjoy the progress.
              Dammit, I almost said, “Tell me your WIN.” I’ve been around $cientology too much lately for a wog. NO! Don’t tell me your “win.” Keep it to yourself and savor it.

            • GlibWog

              bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhaahhahahhaha

              Oh I’m Charley Sheen.. Always WINNNNNNING KID. Yes.. I do savor it.. ; )

            • GlibWog

              Shit .. Of course I’m watching Tia and Tamera now.. hahahhahaa and I never ever ever watch it ( Avoidance)

              but it’s on the background while I type.. OK TV off..

            • Missionary Kid

              O.K., I’m hearing the positive side of things, and that’s a good thing, IMO.

              It almost sounds as if I caught you tonight at a low point, or, as $cientologists would put it, she’s down. Recruitment time.

              It also sounds like you’ve been buffeted with the full course buffet (ain’t English grand, two words, spelled the same, with two different meanings and pronunciations) of losing people. Your twin, and now your daughter.

              People go through different stages as they mature. As I put it about my oldest son, he went through the 23-year old asshole stage. A couple of years later, he was human again. His then girlfriend and now wife did a lot to cure him.

              Unfortunately, $cientology often recruits young people at the stage where they’re trying to separate their identities from their parents, which they do by saying, in effect, “Here’s your new, super dooper identity. You are so cool, and we have all these cool people for you to hang out with, isn’t that cool? And we love that you’re so cool, because having another cool person like you around, just makes the whole group cooler. All you have to do is sign this billion year contract, and not only are you saying that you’re cool, but you now will have access to super powers. Look at how you can handle all those asshole wogs out there. See, you’ve really pissed them off, so it must be because they can’t be as cool as you are. Boy, did you handle them, didn’t you? You set your mom straight. Good girl.”

              If she’s cute, she’ll move up the bridge fast and be given more and more “responsibilities” and more titles. Unfortunately, it’ll just make her poorer, but she’ll have a lot of books and certificates and titles. To pull another phrase out of my file: In the wog world, 100K buys you an impressive college degree. In scientology, the acquired knowledge barely qualifies you to operate a cash register.

              It’s kind of like the old joke about Cleveland. (People of Cleveland, it can be any city, I just heard it that way).
              First prize for the contest is a week in Cleveland.
              Second prize is two weeks in Cleveland.
              That’s $cientology.

              Here’s the deal. I’m sending you by mail, the billion year contract. At the end, you pay me my nickle at 1% interest per annum, starting today. I did some of the math. After only 10,000 years, the amount of money you owe me will be a little less than $8.179 X 10^41, but I’ll settle for $8 with 41 zeroes after it.

              Aside from the crying stuff, it sounds like you’re coping fairly well, and you’re getting better, and, by the way, FUCK $CIENTOLOGY.

            • GlibWog

              Ahhh Kid.. I like you..I am good to go now.. ha.. You and others were at the right time right place for me tonight and my pity party.. Well… Not pity party. More a Reality Session.

              I feel great now.. You make a great therapist. Sometimes you just want to acknowledge your pain and want others to acknowledge it too.. Just Validation. I’m sorry you are in pain. That’s all.

              then I get on with my day..so this discussion we had tonight will be enough for me for months..I am NOT kidding..

              Yep..the double whammy.. My daughter.. Isn’t a Scn. So it’s not a forced Disconnection.. I don’t know which is worse.. She has a Narcissist Personality Disorder.. and I said NO to her ( NOT the first time )

              but for some reason this NO was the Straw ( camel’s back etc.) but as long as I can see my Grandkids ( I can via the court system) I will be OK. NOTHING cuts as deep as Molly. But I do understand the pain that comes along with Scn disconnection.

              hahahha I have never heard the Cleve joke.. funny..

              and the contract.. hey I already sent my $ to RLH on Target 2.. He’ll give it to ya when he returns.

              Not aside from the crying stuff , but because of it.. I hold it in too long sometimes and when it comes out it is freeing.. So thanks alot.. for making me cry ( hahaha )

              OMG I am better.. and Yes.. FUCK SCIENTOLOGY ..and may it come tumbling down soonnnnnnnnnnnnnn. xo Thanks Kid..

              More than you know.. Just more than you know..

            • Missionary Kid

              I made the assumption that the disconnection from your daughter was due to Co$. I was wrong.

              I’m not a big fan of using terms like Personality Disorder. I’d say that it sounds like she’s a controlling person, and she’s using the one weapon she has to try to control you: your grandkids. You do something she doesn’t like, (meaning you go against her wishes) and she disconnects.

              I’d just call her a manipulative bitch. She’s trying to get you to bend to her will. It sounds as if this is only the most recent steer in the rodeo for you to wrestle with.

              I don’t envy you.

              I’m finally up, and I need to see what the rainstorm did last night.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              I’ve become a big fan of mindfulness and mindful breathing, which is a great set of coping skills for managing our nervous system as we surf through the emotional reactions we have to our life experience. Check out the work of Jon kabat zinn and/or go to freemindfulness.org

            • GlibWog

              Sir.. Thank you so much.. Yes I have heard of this movement. I used to do Yoga.. and breathing exercises .. etc. and I do have to get back to doing that..

              I will be very open minded about it and see how it works for me..

              I even have to remember to breathe…

            • joan nieman

              Somehow I believe you are really strong Glib….more than you know.

            • GlibWog

              Joan.. I swear to God.. This is how I truly feel.

              I think I am the strongest woman that ever lived.

              Everyone one of us I hope would feel this way.. after they have gone through hell and come out still breathing and WANTING to breathe.

              Thank you for hanging in with me tonight.. xo

            • Poison Ivy

              Just posted about the same thing, MK! Like I said, when I dream I’m married to the first MrPI, I have now linked it (through conventional therapy – gasp!) with situations in my daily life where I am trying to make a decision and questioning my own judgment.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sounds like there’s some similarities between your ex and mine. She was controlling, and, whenever I made a decision contrary to what her passive-aggressive wishes were, would question my judgement instead of saying she didn’t like it.

            • WildaBeast

              I wish I could hug you.

            • GlibWog

              Ohhh I felt your hug Wilda.. thank you.. I needed that..
              I’ve talked too much tonight.. I must have needed to talk. Thanks for listening..

            • WildaBeast

              Of course. Anytime, hon.

            • GlibWog

              awwwwwwwwwwwwwww .. (HUGS) Thanks my dear friend.. I liked you from the start.. I really did.

            • WildaBeast

              Ditto, Glibby. I lurked on and off for months before I started posting here, and your sense of humour and warm heart were one of the things that stayed with me about this place. I’d come check out a thread and read the comments, and see the baby with the cigarette, and think, ‘Oh good! She’s still here!’
              PS – That baby with the cigarette? Love it…

            • GlibWog

              Well.. that is one of the sweetest things I have heard in a long time.. Sometimes I am an “Acquired Taste..”

              My nickname is Baby ..I thought The Baby would be cute for an Avi.. and of course since Oh Hubs was a smoker as are many Scn. ( and I ) but I’m doing the Vapor stuff now..

              I had to have The Baby smokin.. so cute..ha…

            • Interested

              A huge hug from me.. Xo

            • GlibWog

              awwww.. Interested thank you.. I just woke up and feel great today..Just talking last night was all I needed.

            • Poison Ivy

              So sorry Glib. So terrible. My dreams have always been vivid movie dreams, ever since I was 5 years old. They even have soundtracks. Normally they are really exciting, imaginative and entertaining and I get great ideas from them upon waking. But when the nightmares are that vivid, it sucks. I’ve awakened in tears, too, dreaming about my Mom dying.

            • GlibWog

              PI OMG yes.. unless you have experienced it ..it’s difficult to explain to others.. I am sorry for you to to go through those damn dreams too..

              I used to wonder when I was young and would read.. ” Do you dream in color?”

              ” Gee, what kind of of a stupid question was that..?” The colors, the Soundtrack.. The SMELLS… and now on Paxil they are magnified by 1,000.

              And yes PI normally Exciting, Entertaining..thrilling.. ( and I wake up exhausted from traveling.. meeting up with old lovers.. ( looking over my shoulder for hubby..)

              and always relieved that I am NOT with the bastards I left.. but with him..

              and I remember every detail.. EVERY detail..But then.. yes Mom and Molly dying ones..

              ((HUGS))

          • GlibWog

            Congrats.. Rich.. I am proud of you.. Sorry about those dreams.. ugh..Damn…
            That said.. Again so Proud of you.

            • richelieu jr

              No reason to be proud of me. NOt even that hard, really… (YMMV)

            • GlibWog

              ( Well YMMV to you too..) ha ( I had to google that ! )

        • Moonshot

          Interesting Robert,
          It’s almost as if the unconscious mind is just putting in a warning there, NOT to do that thing again, whatever that thing is.

          I guess the dream has to be set up that way, since in ur present way of thinking you wouldnt be making that decision again, but still your mind wants to put the warning in JUST IN CASE.

        • Poison Ivy

          Before I met the amazing MrPI (about 12 years after a traumatic divorce in my 20’s), I had a recurring dream that I re-married my (emotionally abusive) ex-husband again. And like the dreams you describe, it was already a done deal. And in the dream I’d think, “What was I thinking? How did I get myself into this again?” I’d have that dream repeatedly. I have even had it once or twice while in my happy marriage. I have connected it to things going on in my present life where I am questioning my own judgment about something. I see it now as a warning sign for me to slow down and not rush into any immediate decisions.

      • Dean Fox

        Sounds like Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. No surprise there.

      • Marc Headley

        I had one where I was back at the Int Base and way off in the distance I could barely make out David Miscavige walking out of sight with my kids!!! When you wake up from one of those you go and check to see if the kids are in their beds!

        I used to have nightmares on a regular basis after I first left. Like every time I slept – regular. As far as I know, most if not all of Int Base exes that I know have had the same. From the research that I have done, nightmares are VERY common among those who have experienced great amounts of long term stress, mental or physical abuse. People do not frequently have violent nightmares for no reason.

        I think it might be more prevalent at the Int Base, as we witnessed hundreds of people being tracked own and “returned”. There were blow drills that involved night vision goggles and motorcycles all over the perimeters of the property searching for guys. It was a dramatic event for someone to escape and NOT be returned.

        When I started to talk about the abuses, the frequency of the nightmares reduced slightly.

        When I wrote my BFG book they came back strong and then almost completely disappeared.

        I have a rare one here and there. Maybe a few times a year now.

        When I hear about someone who has recently left and has nightmares, I tell them to either write down what they experienced and/or see a therapist. Some people can work stuff out for themselves. Some people need someone to help them through.

        I have also found that one’s location also can help reduce the nightmares. Getting far away from any scilon activity and/or scilons could be a help for some. Stopping the lingo helps. Getting rid of any “triggers” will help to get away from the nightmares and anxiety.

        I have made a careful note to talk to a lot of people who have left and see what works best on the “decompression” process. Talking about it and coming to grips with what happened seem to be the some of the best things to speed it up. Realizing or being told that it was NOT you also seems to be a great relief for some people.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Great advice!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Jeeeeez.. “…we witnessed hundreds of people being tracked down and ‘returned'”…

          Jeez…..

        • Moonshot

          You give many pieces of great advice there.

          I left in the late 90’s, so its been a while for me. Other than that once a year nightmare, really there were few affects. My experience was a walk in the park compared to what you went through and many others.

          I actually was in for a pretty short period of time. Once i saw how fucked up that “organization” is i started plotting my exit. One of the things that really motivated me to get the fuck out fast was knowing that i was “CMO and INT” qual’d. I was very aware that if I “succeeded” on post or if a visiting INT exec liked the cut of my jib, i might get “promoted” up-lines.

          At one point a CMO girl was after me to get married, that also put the fear in me of going up lines and I kept hearing from some execs and HCO people how rare it was to be “INT Qual’d.”

          I actually had a premonition that “promotion” to INT would land me in the worst hell i could imagine. I saw how the CO of the AO and how the CO CMO of the AO fucking when crazy every time they got hammered for compliances to DM “orders” and i just knew that to be anywhere near DM in close proximity had to be 1,000 times worse than that.

          • aboutandout

            Wow! I am curious, now that you have been out for 13 + years when you re-read what you wrote do you realize you are speaking another language? Please I am not being critical or insulting just curious. It flows so well and natural after all these years.

            • Moonshot

              Yes, i am very aware. I intentionally dropped back into the Sea Org/SCN patois because that post was mainly directed to Marc and was the fastest way to communicate to him my meaning.
              CO = Commanding officer….AO is Advanced Organization (a sea org technical or spiritual tech delivery organization…CMO is Commodores Messenger Org (think LRH”s special Gestapo, every CMO staffer is to be treated as LRH himself by any other Sea Org member, if a 14 year old CMO staffer is telling you to JUMP, that is really LRH right there telling you to JUMP)….INT is International Managment (the upper strata of SCN Sea Org Managment and is directly under the thumb of DM…and INT Qual’d means that in your sexual history to that point you have nevre done homosexuality, group sex, bestiality, pedophelia or anything like that, have done little or no street drugs, no pysch drugs, never been convicted of any crime in a courte of law, niever been associated with a “squirrel” group, get case gain from the “tech” and generally are pure as the wind driven snow.
              If i said anything else from the planet Zarkon, please feel free to ask for translation 🙂

            • aboutandout

              Thanks for the translation chart, the scary thing is I did get some of it. I guess I’ve been here long enough to pick up the lingo. But sometimes I read things without doing the translation and it makes me laugh. I do it all the time with hubby and work lingo…I know I have gone over board when I get the “deer in the headlight” stare.

            • Moonshot

              Its pretty damn ironic.

              I think there are more Scientology haters out there now who understando the lingo, that there are Scientologists.

              Somehow, i don’t think that was what LRH had in mind when he thought about spreading the Word…..ha ha ha……

            • aboutandout

              Oh that is so funny and probably so true.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              or was it?…mua ha ha ha

            • GlibWog

              About.. You are funny..

              I used to have a little cheat sheet with the Looney Tune Words on it..

              It’s NOT that I remember everything now.. it’s just not needed like it used to be..It reminded me when I played poker in my youth..

              No one would play with me because I had a cheat sheet with me and when I didn’t I would ask..

              OK.. ” Does a Full House.. Wait.. Again What is a Full House.. ? If it’s all the same suit then I’m in.. ”

              Cards Folded Fast around me.

            • aboutandout

              LMAO yep that is how I play poker too.

            • GlibWog

              Well We are ” Two of a kind..” hahahhaha

            • joan nieman

              Love poker.

            • Robert Eckert

              I got all of it. Now THAT’S scary. Two years in the Bunker will do that to you.

            • Missionary Kid
            • WildaBeast

              It is *so* fucked up that what qualifies you to work in the upper echelons of Sea Org management is not your mental state, education level, proven competence, experience, etc., but rather who or what you have been in bed with and whether or not you’ve taken drugs. NOT whether the drugs you took have fried your brain, but simply whether or not you’ve taken them.
              Also, I’d like to take a trip back to 1980 or so in order to slap Eller H until his nose bleeds for including gay and group sex in a disqualifying category that includes pedophilia.

            • Plotinus

              Many non-SCN “never-ins” now understand this language, even speak it fluently, thanks to Mr. Proprietor!

        • 1984

          Marc, I find it interesting that many people have similar nightmares. Given the willingness of the church to abuse the tech (eg, black dianetics) I don’t trust coincidences.

          Has anyone inspected their nightmare, and located the trigger point? Upon inspection, is this idea your own, or did someone else put it there?
          Might be an interesting exercise worth documenting.

      • GlibWog

        OMG I can’t imagine how terrifying that must be Moon.. and others. I used to have Panic Attacks in my sleep as you described.. Terrifying.

        • Moonshot

          Well, i’m a man Glibby, so i dont have panic attacks (ha ha! joke). I actually didnt really clasisify it as that in my own mind, but in that dream, i certainly was in a state panic realizing i could be so crazy as to re-join the Sea Org, so, must called that Spade a Spade.

          • GlibWog

            Oh Moon.. You are funny.. When I say I used to have them.. Not as many since I’ve been on Meds.. but every once in awhile the panic attacks will emerge.. sigh..

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Yea, the panic attacks suck. After a few trips to the ER I figured out that they were not heart attacks and that I wasn’t going to die.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Yep. My wife used to have them frequently when she was on staff, exactly like you described. Ironically, 90% of it is gone since she got declared SP and what little she gets on a rare occasion now – she easily manages. Valeriana Root tea helps too.

            • GlibWog

              YEP.. More than my share of times. …

            • WildaBeast

              No, I think panic attacks are like childbirth (not that I’ve tried the latter)…but there’s no way to explain them. I used to get ones where I would feel the floor start to move under me…it would tilt until it was 90 degrees to what it was before, but gravity wouldn’t change, so I’d hang onto my chair so that I wouldn’t start to fall…

              I still can’t believe I managed to keep people from noticing. And pot saved my fucking life. I haven’t had a really bad one in years. I’m glad yours are somewhat better now, Glibby.

            • GlibWog

              The worst one I had I described a few days ago on the Bunker..
              I stood outside my body and watched myself work. I went home straight into a fetal position.
              Yes.. I have felt the floor moving under me.. The state of being anxious and not being able to do one thing about it is just horrible.. ugh Loss of control.

              MY God we are having a Therapy session tonight..I love it..

            • Moonshot

              Well, have some bad new for you Glibby….and i simply know this is going to break your heart….but now that you’ve gone and taken those meds you are Officially NOT qualified to join staff with International Scientology Managment and you cannot be on DM’s personal sfaff. Ohhhh, sigh…….

            • GlibWog

              Damn Damn Damn..

              You know Moon I tell everyone I’m Just FINE…

              Yes.. I am Fine.. And probably most of us are just fine.

              F. = Fucked Up

              I. = Insecure

              N. = Neurotic

              E. = Emotional

              Yep I am FINE.. My BFF and I always say.. ” How are you.. OMG I AM REALLY, REALLY FINE.. AND YOU? ” haha

              ( Some days more FINE than others.. xo

              You have NO idea how glad I am to see you here.. I know you are probably sick of me saying that.. but I am..

              and I know that I had a small part in that.. and it makes me less FINE…

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          I would wake up thinking there had been an earthquake because the bed was shaking.

          • GlibWog

            Absolutely.. and you could literally see your heart pounding out of your chest.. and you think that your heart is actually exploding..
            or wondering how your heart could NOT explode after the episode.. Good God..

      • DodoTheLaser

        Same here, even though I was on staff in Class V Org, not SO.
        I’m out for only a few years, so last year I had these kind of nightmares
        almost every month. I think it’s been about 6 month since I had last one.
        It does get better. Marc gives some really good advices on it.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          It does get better. Although recently, there have been more. Probably indexed to the amount of time I spend in the Bunker. Also, sometimes it seems I have more of them when there is about to be a ‘disturbance in the force’. Still have a bit of the ‘ole magical thinking there….

          • DodoTheLaser

            I know what you mean, Michael. HelluvaHoax! from ESMB once posted an analogy that made sense to me, something about hard drive defragmentation as a reference to what happens in our minds when we dream. Connecting the dots, learning when we are awake,
            processing and settling it all when we are asleep.

        • Moonshot

          In some ways i think the staff experience is worse than the Sea Org. At least in the SO you get a meal 3 times a day and a bed to sleep on at Org expense. (Not that the food is always edible or the sleeping quarters restful, but thats another matter). When stats were down and i didnt get paid, i didnt still have to worry about paying the bills or feeding my children, or putting petrol in the lorry. The Class V Org staff still have all those pressure on top of all the Org management and Sea Org pressure drama.

          • DodoTheLaser

            Thank you for that. Very true. Think of all the same bullshit, plus having to come up with enough money to pay rent, other bills and food. All while paycheck is not that different from SO and sometimes actually less or none.

            • Moonshot

              Yes, but at least you had the solace of knowing your Staff Contract was 999,999,999,995 years shorter than mine. That’s not a small thing there, i assure you…….

            • DodoTheLaser

              Ha! True. But in my personal case, I was so dedicated that I signed a Sea Org contract while on staff in Class V Org, so I can join SO at Flag when my contract is up. I had plans to get trained as Class XII and was basically on Project Prepare. Triple face palm.

            • Moonshot

              Oh, you poor fool….you see the Shit Pies being doled out and then you sign up to work at the Shit Pie Factory…..Yes, you had swallowed the shit for sure brother….well, better late than never that we wised up……..

            • DodoTheLaser

              Yes, I was well-intentioned idiot. The curse of my life, I guess.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              You are not alone. I was on staff at SFO Fdn. Blew. Came back and did A-E. Joined the Sea Org. Left at AOLA renos insanity. Joined again in 1979 when told my problems were because I was unacknowledged clear. Left /blew/ in Feb ’80. Joined the S.O. again in 1984 at SMI Int. Left after doing 5 Missions in about 3 months and being D/Qual Sec I/T.

              Then spent another 19 years as public.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Damm! Thank you for sharing, Michael.

              I was a Qual Sec in my org for some time, btw., but mainly an auditor.
              What a fucking ride we went through, eh?!

            • GlibWog

              OK… I think Michael wins at this point..
              Only Memories now .. Thank God..

              I swear to God if you go back I will Bitch Slap you to the Moon!

            • WildaBeast

              Would you chase him all the way up there to keep slapping him again every time he slowed down? Do you have a really long extendable arm that will just keep stretching as he rises? Or will it be one MIGHTY slap that takes him all the way?
              Not that he’s going back 🙂 I just want to know…

            • GlibWog

              I would sneak into the Super Power Building Wilda.. and get all greased up in the Oil table and then let’s see.. Go on that Gyro thing with Michael..

              and keep spinning until we are both on the moon.. and because I’m slippery I will drop him off while he’s trying to hold on to me.. Then..

              OMG.. I haven’t figured out how I would get back.. hmmmmmm

            • Robert Eckert
            • GlibWog

              Robert.. Now that is one of the funniest things I’ve seen in a long time..haha

              OK I lied…I laugh everytime I come here.. hahhaha

            • Kitz

              You’d use the gravity of the moon to slingshot you back, which I believe has been used before with the sun… (Tipsy brain won’t work at the moment!) Once you get rid of his mass by dropping him, your velocity should increase to make it back to Earth. 😀

            • GlibWog

              Yay.. OK.. I am good to go.. Tipsy brain.. I should have a Mango Margarita ..I’m getting ready to hit the sack.. but I have been staying up for Big Tony Macaroni..

              comin up.. if he hasn’t already..( hahaha sounds so dirty)

            • Kitz

              Wow… My brain was tipsier than I realized last night, lol. Acceleration, not velocity, increases when mass is reduced and force stays the same.. (F=ma therefore, a=F/m My physics prof would shake his head and smack me for that error!)

            • GlibWog

              Kitz.. You are quite safe.. it sounded good to me ..ha..

            • Kitz

              I’ll help ya with that. He’d have no chance with both of us gunning for him, since he knows that I would track his ass down where ever he ended up. 😉

            • GlibWog

              You bet your sweet ass Kitz.. we have a whole army here that would track him down..ha

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Dude- what a venture that was! So many ideas must have hooked you- in your core.

            • Moonshot

              Nah, not an idiot. Most staff members are intelligent and very well intentioned folks. Those who havent been there cant really get what those initial “wins” are like in SCN. They just see all the horror stories, or see loved ones at the end of their story with SCN, and think its all crap. Well, it may end up that way, but intially people see the good it does and want to help others. I said “fool” in jest my friend, you are anything but.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I know you didn’t mean it. Thanks again for being here and communicating. Ha!

            • GlibWog

              Awwwwwwwwwww Dodo.. ( HUGS)

            • Robert Eckert
            • DodoTheLaser

              Yep.

            • GlibWog

              O.M. G. hahahha Perfect timing..Robert… hahahaa
              Hearing you guys stories.. So glad they are in PAST tense.. Good God Almighty

            • WildaBeast

              This ^^^^

      • FingersCrossed

        I have had them!!

      • music8r

        Jeezuz, I have those dreams. Horrible. The other night I dreamed my husband and I willingly signed on for some course as public. Somehow we had agreed to give the “church” a second chance, pretending as if we knew nothing prior to signing on. We tried playing their game and found ourselves tying up our own rights to think freely into the bounds of submission by promising to give them a “fair shake.” We were verbally abused by the reg for explaining how we had to transfer money and that it took 2 days. The most horrible part of the dream was that we were trying to appease the reg, trying to retain a working relationship with him.

        This was an easy dream – being public and agreeing to be drawn in to the bullshit. The scary dreams are those where I am locked up; however I know I can escape if I think the right thoughts. But if I think the right thoughts, I will die.

        Good dream to WAKE UP from…

        • WildaBeast

          “The scary dreams are those where I am locked up; however I know I can
          escape if I think the right thoughts. But if I think the right thoughts,
          I will die.”

          Ahhhhh! No, not fun! It’s so bizarre the way our brains can put us in the perfect trap in dreams. That one sounds awful, music8r. I hope it gets less frequent or just goes away, with time…

      • Phil McKraken

        I’ve never been a Scilon, but I used to smoke cigarettes. After I quit (for the last time) in 1989, I used to have the exact type of dream you are describing, but in those dreams I was smoking again. I would be devastated that I had consigned myself to a lifetime of incurable smoking addiction. Then I would wake up in a cold sweat and in great relief. Once I even dreamed that it’s not a dream this time!

        Over the years, the dreams faded. After 10 years, it hardly ever happened again.

        • Phil McKraken

          As a side note: At the time I quit smoking, I was involved in a self-help cult (of a much less destructive or totalitarian nature than Scientology). Think Forum, but more sophisticated. In any case, I wanted to credit that guru with my accomplishment, but I knew that the credit really belonged to a friend who had done a smoking cessation course sponsored by his health club and had fed me some helpful tips on how to do it.

    • Jgg2012

      “Ten years ago, if you were in scientology and also a celebrity the LAST thing you would do is admit that you left or even tell your family and friends”
      Ten years ago, if you said something negative about Scientology in a TV show, one of their lawyers would be screaming at you the next day. Now, it happens fairly often. Maybe Kendrick Moxon has laryngitis?

    • BlueJene

      I believe that every time someone like Leah leaves, it will give more people who are thinking about taking that step do it, as well as show the public that might naively join, think twice. I have never been involved with scientology. I was looking for a good non-fiction book, and yours looked interesting. I was stunned at what I read!Thank you for putting your story out there Marc.

      • GlibWog

        Hi Blue .. Welcome to the Bunker! You are joining at the most perfect of times..

        • BlueJene

          Thank you GlibWog. It’s been an eyeopener for sure! It’s hard to believe in this day and age that a group like this exists, and with the support of the government no less!! I only hope that the IRS will reverse that idiotic decision to give them tax-exempt status. That is unbelievable!

          • BlueJene

            I have a question. I keep reading about people who blow, and also about people being afraid of being returned against their will. How are those who take them back or hold them not being charged with a crime? I know they have their blackmail tactics, but I’m sure there are people who just don’t give two cents about blackmail & just want OUT. Where are the authorities in all this?

            • GlibWog

              I have read so much Blue.. but as a Never In it is hard for me to answer this..

              Former Scn can do a better job than I could do.

              I’ll give one example.. OK you could give 2 cents about blackmail.. ( Fair Gaming)

              How ya going to live? You need to work right.. So you get a job and I call your boss and tell them that you are a pedophile. You are a drug addict.. and then Like Marty Rathbun’s wife ..I send a Dildo to your work.

              I kill your cat.. I kill your dog.. ( What is important to you? ) I go after your kids.

              Everyone has someone or something they care about. I turn your electricity off..

              I tell your neighbors ( like Karen D. ) that her birds are a Nuisance.. and are filthy.. etc.

              Authorities are Fair Gamed too Blue.. Judges, IRS, Lawyers ( Yep.. anyone critical of Scn. is Fair Gamed..)

            • BlueJene

              Oh, I understand that life would definitely be an uphill battle, and honestly don’t know if I could surmount all of those obstacles, but they can’t be any harder than the nightmare that you just left. Since I’ve never been in, I like you don’t know how I’d survive either, especially if my entire family were in, but when you have nothing to lose..?

            • BlueJene

              The thing about the authorities, where does the buck stop? Isn’t there a level that sci-lawyers even can’t touch? Somebody has to have the guts to take them on and beat them at their own game.

            • joan nieman

              That is what Tony is doing…and doing a very good job of it too…we, in the blog are his supporters.

            • Moonshot

              I dont know of any cases where “technically” they are taken back against their will. Typically what happens is that a staff member that the blown person knows and trusts very well is the one sent out to get them.
              If DM really wants that individual back, then all kinds of resources are utuized to track them down. The church knows where all their relatives live. They know who all their pre-scientology friends are. The places they have worked. They have a in house travel agent, so they can access the airlines systems and see if or when they booked any flights and if they got on the plane.
              So, once they know where the Blower is going, or have a very good idea, they send out the Best Friend. Very often the BF will be at the Blower’s destination airport waiting for them before they even arrive themselves! This creats a big Freak Out Factor, feeling like they can never get away, so why try. So then the BF saying something like “Joe, we know how much stress you have been under. We’re sorry about it. If you really want to leave fine, but you really need to do it the right way. Come back, do the Routing Form, then you can go.”
              So, there is no goon squad thats gonna abduct them once they get off base. ON BASE is a different matter. But this is only for certain types of staffers, usually those found in DMs own base. Most staff who blow are low level, and no one will either stop them, or go get them.

            • BlueJene

              That you for clearing that up Moonshot. If scientologys “leadership” wasn’t bad enough, I’ve imagined people being dragged back to a life they’ve come to hate!

            • Moonshot

              i here you, but the extreme mental and spiritual duress is bad enuf, but yeah, at least its not goonie squads yet…..

          • GlibWog

            Amazing isn’t it.. One Day.. IRS will reverse.. I just have a feeling about it..

            There is just too much Sqwalking not to..

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      We in RTC ordered Scientology parishioners to destroy all of their televisions sets last week so that they could not watch the Ellen Degenerate show — a show which is as bad as Slime Magazine.

      In happier news, we in RTC are pleased to report that COB RTC David Miscavige’s new GAT II airship is aloft over Clearwater spreading the message of GAT II.

      COB’s new 1-800-DONATE program to fully fund the launch of GAT II is now in full swing! Please call right now with your heroic and monumental planetary-saving donation of at least $10,000. Operators are standing by. Those who call in the next 24 hours will receive a free leatherbound copy of The Way to Happiness!

      http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/800Donate_zpsea53c75b.png

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thank you to RTC for helping your parishioners to get rid of the suppressive televisions sets!
        Hopefully, the suppressive personal computers and smart mobile phones are included in that order.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Under the Golden Age of Technology Phase II rules, Scientology parishioners will no longer permitted to own personal computers and smart phones. However, such devices may be leased from the Church on a monthly basis after signing an agreement that gives OSA the right to monitor all of one’s communications.

          OSA monitoring is fee-based and a charge of $50.00 is assessed for each minute of monitoring. OSA monitors have the right to instantly disconnect users from their phones or computers without prior notice or warning if any entheta is detected.

          • GlibWog

            The dangers of Pillow talk.. Where do you come up with this shit…hahahhaha

          • DodoTheLaser

            So kewl! Modern technologies are so theta when utilized by RTC!!!

      • GlibWog

        hahahhahaha.. You are Pimping again 8

      • BlueJene

        hmmm…why did I just have a mental picture of the Hindenburg?

    • DamOTclese2

      “Leah will most likely see the same thing that many others have seen once they leave.”

      She have already seen that she has a lot more freedom.

    • Missionary Kid

      That is quite a sea change, isn’t it? Just saying that it wasn’t for her ten years ago would have provoked all sorts of dramatics on the part of Co$. Of course, since her whole family left, that’s gotta smart for Co$, because it removed disconnection by family from their blackmail weapons.

      The admission that Co$ has such a policy by a high profile public figure also has to smart, too. Ellen telling her that she has friends on the outside helped.

      She looked tired, but the whole episode was wacky, to say the least. It seems that she and Ellen set each other off. I don’t know if they’re friends IRL, but it sure seems so.

      Leah just made it easier for hundreds, if not thousands to leave. Tick Tock, Davy.

  • She said the D-word! Letting the world know about Scientology *DISCONNECTION* and how it destroys families. Thank you, Leah!!

    • TonyOrtega

      Actually, no she didn’t. She described it, but she didn’t use the word itself.

      • Garry Scarff

        I’m curious why she has been very tight-lipped since leaving the cult, unlike other celebs like Jason Beghe & Paul Haggard. What is she afraid of? She has her family & friends. It is not like Leah Remini to hold back when she has an opinion (it’s why she was not invited back to ‘The View’).

        • Spackle Motion

          Garry, she’s most likely holding back because of a possible future book deal. She also probably believes that all/any NDAs she signed are valid (and her wog legal counsel doesn’t even have copies of those documents to tell her otherwise). She’s being very careful for a reason, and I suspect it is on advice of her attorney(s).

          • TonyOrtega

            She hasn’t signed any NDAs. And she’s not holding back for book deals.

            • ze moo

              A valid NDA would require consideration on both sides. I can’t see the dwarfenführer cutting Remini a check, so what could they ‘exchange’ with her, for her silence? CO$ has only the hold on Remini, that Remini allows. Too bad she has friends still in, it does limit her a bit. In spite of all the wishes for a tell all book, I haven’t heard of any real book deal. I hope it isn’t wishful thinking, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

              It will be very hard to beat the seminal work on the clamdom, Larry Wrights book. And Jenna M Hills book is the heart rendering, first person expose. Walking in eithers shoes is not going to be easy for anyone.

            • richelieu jr

              Plus she doesn’t ened the cash… He basically has nothing she wants, except his own departure…

            • DamOTclese2

              I don’t see why Leah would agree to any demands that she not talk about Scientology’s crimes and abuses. Miscaviage knows that he needs to keep his henchmen reigned in, not to Fair Game her like so many others. Miscaviage *can* learn from his mistakes, even if he slaps the living fuck out of the non-clam lawyers that he pays to offer him advice on how to behave .

            • DamOTclese2

              I am going to pre-order her book if she really does one — for that matter, I’m going to pre-order yours. 🙂 The nuts among us that are obsessed with Scientology-watching are looking forward to information not previously offered in public, or not previously well-covered in what’s available out on the ‘Tubes. Really only the Unauthorized Biography contained anything “recent” that had stuff not known about Scientology, we are rather long overdue for anything truly revealing.

            • Spackle Motion

              Tony, she was in the Sea Org for awhile where NDAs are part and parcel of being a SO member. She probably even routed out, where you know those are required. So I’m not sure why you say that she hasn’t signed any NDAs.

            • TonyOrtega

              Yes, she was in the Sea Org for a year — 30 years ago. And if you remember, I interviewed her sister Nicole about that, and she described them telling the Sea Org to fuck off, essentially. Again, I’ll say that through my reporting, I am pretty sure Leah is not being held back by any NDAs. But your orneriness is always charming.

            • Spackle Motion

              I aim to please, Tony, you know that. Arguing with you is not my aim.

              I appreciate you clarifying this point; I was basing my points on knowledge of others’ experiences with NDAs and the SO when I obviously was wrong based on your information.

              I suppose having perfect recall of your interviews is a quality I lack and I apologize. But your asperity always charming as well.

        • Robert Eckert

          I don’t think she’s afraid, nor do I think she is very anxious to write a book. I think she is more interested in creating a reputation as someone who is not out to make trouble for anyone, and will not even raise to the bait if provoked.

        • ThetaBara

          I think it takes a while to shake off the instilled fear and intimidation.
          I’m dismayed that people criticize her for not being more forthcoming right away. Her sister has had years to adjust. She needs to restructure her brain and get her feet back under her. I think she is playing it masterfully.

          • Agreed. One must restructure things and speak out when time is due. I think she’s got a plan.

      • LeeAnneClark

        True, but at this point, most people who’ve heard anything about Scientology in the press have heard that word…and have possibly even heard Scientology deny it exists. And without even using the word, Leah just told everyone that it does.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Yes, it is just a word and in scientology land, words become all important and self defining. But to TV viewers, she answered Ellen’s question in non scientology coded loaded language and I for one am very thankful and relieved she did. She didn’t need to spit out the Disconnection word. She described what happens when you leave, simply and succinctly and calmly. I thought that was outstanding.

      • I noticed, but still…in “wog” terms 😀 (now updated).

      • TheLurkingHorror

        I wish she had used the word disconnection. That way people unfamiliar with it could google ‘Scientology’ and ‘disconnection’ and get a snoot full of horror stories.

      • George Layton

        Ah well, if the {church} comes out with a statement using the word while discrediting Leah, people can ask them, “What are you saying?”.

        • Jgg2012

          Part of their argument about not having a disconnection policy is the fact that they don’t call it “the disconnection policy”. Rather, it’s the “if you talk to them, they have to leave the church also and those still in the church can’t talk to them” policy. Better to lay out the undisputable fact and let the church try to explain it.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Most excellent point!

  • Mary_McConnell

    Short and to the point! Bravo! And thanks to Ellen for asking ( and providing those appropriate facial expressions )

  • TheLurkingHorror

    Damn it! I forgot all about this! I had all weekend to find out when and where it comes on and I forgot. Ugh! Thank you, Tony, for the transcript.

    They may not have said much, but they said more than any other entertainment talk show has ever dared to say about it (as far as I know, anyway). It’s a good start, a damn good start. Let’s hope others will follow suit. I dare you, you weenies. Ellen and Leah have the balls!

  • georget1952

    I like that Ellen told her that Leah has her support. That had to make Leah feel great. Good for Leah for saying that disconnection exists in the Church of Scientology. Now, the church will have to come out with a big “we deny that” spiel like they always do when the truth about them is revealed. I hope they do not say anything bad about Ellen, that would be a mistake as so many people love her. Wait, maybe I do hope they say something about Ellen…..lol

    • georget1952

      Now, I usually do not watch DWTS. But I will this season and will watch any show that also has Leah on, as they will most likely ask her about Scn too. I am hoping that one of those times, Leah decides to let it all out. Everything that happened to her.

      • phronsie

        I NEVER watch reality shows, and DWTS, American Idol, all of those, make me want to curl into a ball, but now Leah will be on there AND Bill Nye the Science Guy (so I heard)! How can I pass that up??

    • ThetaBara

      Yeah, the “I’M your friend” spoke volumes.

      • georget1952

        It did. Now all the people who have been on Ellen’s show before this that are in Scn will have to say NO the next time. That will be the order from miscavige, and I wonder how they will react to it? Ellen is so well liked by everyone and she WILL talk if they blow her off. The more I think of it, I hope they do say no to her the next time she asks any of them to show up…you know she is gonna want to know why.

      • WildaBeast

        Having Ellen say that on national television is probably better for Leah’s career than any strings the {church} still thinks it can pull. 🙂
        For Leah, the future is friendly.

        • richelieu jr

          Scratch ‘probably’, it is DEFINITELY better. Scientology never helped anyone. Even Travolta only thinks it did because the whole class ‘prayed’ for him to get Kotter.

          • WildaBeast

            Okay, DEFINITELY better. You are right.

        • joan nieman

          I agree WildaBeast. This is a huge support. Awesome!

    • DamOTclese2

      Ellen is also greatly plugged in to the Hollywood arena. If the Scientology dimwits start to make trouble for Leah and her career, Ellen could lend a VERY Big Thetan hand.

  • Jeb Burton

    Ive been blasted on this site for giving my opinion that she wont give a sit down, tell all interview until her tell all book is out. One publisher has said that the sky is the limit on a tell all book from a Scientology celebrity. I would like all of you who have called me bad names and accused me of being OSA and a troll to apologize to me right now. Thank you. .

    • dbloch7986

      That’s part and parcel of commenting in the internets

      • richelieu jr

        You caught up really fast, my friend!

    • ThetaBara

      You can start making demands when the alleged book actually comes out (or is announced).
      Tony only goes for the real news that can be backed up. That’s why everyone reads him!

    • Robert Eckert

      No publisher has said they have any deal with her. Only one source claimed that she was even looking for such a deal, and that was supposedly based on something she said at a gathering where the people who were actually there heard her say no such thing. Until Tony tells us she is looking for a publisher, I do not believe it at all. You have, in fact, acted as a troll often, and while the accusation of being OSA sounds very unlikely, you have earned the pushback you have gotten.

      • DamOTclese2

        I damn well hope that she’s going to publish. I would look forward to it greatly.

    • media_lush

      what you posted above is fine…. I don’t think you were blasted for your opinions, only in the style you put them down at the time… overtly aggressive would be an understatement. Reasonable discourse begats reasonable discourse.

      • Jeb Burton

        She had every opportunity today to say, listen, let me tell you what goes on. But she is waiting for a 7 figure check in my opinion. Hey look lush, Siri is going for an ice cream.

        • georget1952

          As a never in, I do not know alot about Scn as far as being on the inside. But I do know from reading about others’ who have been in that there is a “decompression period”, that can take years to get through. To find out just what happened to them and to find out just who they are now, afterward.

        • ThetaBara

          Dood. If ML is calling for you to be more civil, you might want to srsly consider it.
          I’m just saying.

          • Jeb Burton

            He called me a cunt theta. Is that civil?

            • Robert Eckert

              He called you that because you have been the most persistently rude poster on this blog ever since you have been here.

            • ThetaBara

              Yeah, and he’s jelly, because that was always HIS post! 😛
              Come on guise. Let’s be better than the other side. It isn’t even that hard! They make it easy!

            • DamOTclese2

              🙂 Even worse than I am. 🙂 And I’m rarely civil any more these days.

            • Mooser

              “He called me a cunt theta. Is that civil?”

              He did? In which comment was that? In an earlier comment Tony Ortega suggests you may be acting like a “douche”, but that’s about it. Where an astringent wash comes into it I don’t quite see, but you never know..

            • ThetaBara

              Well, if you think about it, a douche is a useless and harmful product, so…

            • richelieu jr

              Of course, over here, it just means a shower, folks!

            • Robert Eckert

              The “he” in that sentence was MediaLush, not Tony; and Jeb is nursing a resentment from an exchange many many threads ago.

            • phronsie

              Thanks for asking; I was kinda lost, too.

            • ThetaBara

              Well, no. However, as one of the rudest long time posters here (and if you didn’t realize that then maybe you need to lurk moar) if he is calling you out as being rude, well…

              As to CUNT. What some bitter old queen chooses as an insult really doesn’t reflect on you, me or anyone else who actually HAS a VAGINA!!!
              Because even the faggiest fags came out of a WOMAN. So piss off with your insulting of women as women. It is inappropriate and it only makes you look bad.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              can’t. stop. laughing. Helluva response. I’d applaud, but I need my hands to hold my belly still.

            • ThetaBara

              That’s ok. It alarms the cats. 😉

            • Robert Eckert

              We need Espiando here to give his expert opinion: between MediaLush and JebBurton, who is ruder?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol..

            • phronsie

              Amen to that, sistah!

            • richelieu jr

              I like cunts. Came from one. Spend a lot of time trying to get back in. I don’t see why people are down on the word. It’s one of the most wonderful things since like forever.

              Clearly wasted on you though, matey…

            • ThetaBara

              I just don’t appreciate it as an insult. Especially as THE WORST INSULT EVAR!!!!1!1!!!ONEELEVEN!!!!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I don’t like it either.. but it’s still just a word.. And only as potent as you allow it to be.. I mean, it’s not like he dissed Oprah or something equally egregious..

              =)

            • WildaBeast

              “I like cunts. Came from one. Spend a lot of time trying to get back in. I
              don’t see why people are down on the word. It’s one of the most
              wonderful things since like forever.”

              This warmed my heart. My wife, being of British extraction, uses the word in its British sense. It is actually a term we use affectionately with each other (in private; inside jokes are for inside the house). I don’t use it as an insult, myself, because of the extreme reactions it can provoke here…but I certainly see nothing wrong with the word itself.

            • ThetaBara

              I just think that “cunt” meaning both “female genitalia” and “the WORST insult POSSIBLE” is part of woman hating culture. And, fuck that.

            • WildaBeast

              I agree that the North American perception of ‘cunt’ as a really extreme insult is a sad comment on how we view women in our culture.
              I don’t know if I see it used as ‘the worst insult possible’ here, but it’s entirely possible that there’s a regional difference in perception at play.

            • EnthralledObserver

              The worst insult here is to call someone a $cieno… it IS all about perspective, innit? 😉

            • EnthralledObserver

              Or would it be OSA… yeah, that’s probably worse… *snicker*

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s sorta like calling someone a ‘dick’ or ‘dickhead’… whilst once upon a time I suppose it was taken from that meaning, I highly doubt anyone brash enough to use it as a routine insult thinks of a ‘vagina’ when they call someone one these days. As women, I really think that we need to really evaluate whether something said or done needs for us to stand on the victim/offended platform and whinge about it. In the end, we’re all just ‘people’, and in this day and age, for the most part seem to have equal opportunity.

            • ThetaBara

              It’s not nearly as bad as “dick” and that’s the rub.
              Sorry for “whinging.” I think words have meaning and that the choice of words makes a difference beyond the simple statement.

            • Robert Eckert

              Yeah, that’s so gay….

            • ThetaBara

              They go hand in hand, hating gays and hating women.
              Tell me, someone, if MEN are the EPITOME of AWESOME, what is wrong with being a cocksucker?
              No, really? Why is that so bad, if you are to be worshipped for your physical form? Hmm?

            • media_lush
            • Eivol Ekdal

              I see your cunt and raise you a bloke…
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTifRi3qDkU

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              You know there is always the co-opt angle, like the cops did with the ‘pig’ epithet: Community, Understanding, Nice and Tolerant.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’ve been called that here by an American.. They tell me it’s not nearly so obnoxious coming from the UK..

            • media_lush

              you were behaving like one

            • George Layton

              Ummmm Media, what the heck is a cunt theta?

            • media_lush

              I would imagine Tom Cruise would have appeared in google images but this is what pops up….

            • phronsie

              Hey!! What’s the Doctor doing there on the bottom left?? He’s neither one or the other! BTW, as people say now-a-days, that’s my Doctor. 🙂

            • richelieu jr

              No, you heard it worng: It’s “A Cunt Hata’, as in ‘Cunt Hata’s Gonna Hate!”

        • Laura Dieckman

          Have you ever been in Scientology? If not, then honestly you. have. no. idea. You don’t just get out and immediately go to the newspapers. It takes time to even see ALL of the atrocities that occurred while you were there. I’ve been “out” for 5 years now and still haven’t come to terms with everything.

          • Jeb Burton

            I live in Clearwater and believe I have a right to my opinion. You scientology assholes have ruined my hometown. I dont like the cult and I dont think that just because you left, you have changed your stripes. i havent never seen such a bunch of anti social drones in my life. So dont tell me I have to have sympathy for every person who voluntarily signed up and was afraid to say anything. I admire some exes, but not all.

            • Robert Eckert

              Leah didn’t “voluntary sign up” you know.

            • ThetaBara

              You don’t think that disengaging from that awful bullshit counts for anything?!
              We’re on your side. Really. There is no need to go after the exes, unless you are still in.

            • WildaBeast

              Wow, Jeb…you are truly determined to make yourself unpleasant, aren’t you? Laura didn’t say anything offensive to you, and you went out of your way to be extremely rude to her. I’m not sure what your major malfunction is, but you really have a fair bit of gall referring to us here as anti-social when you seem to be making every possible effort to isolate yourself from the social interactions that take place here on a daily basis.

            • Jeb Burton

              Is every ex scientologist a great person because they have left the cult? A lot of them have participated in the behavior that gives the cult its image. I have been followed, photograghed and threatened with assault and harrassment charges just for standing around watching people get off the busses downtown. Try going to your downtown and then be asked what you are doing and you should move on, on a public sidewalk. Not one scientologist ever spoke up and there are hundreds walking around. My bias is not unfounded. .

            • WildaBeast

              In point of fact, Jeb, for about five years of my life, I was frequently asked what I was doing in my own city when I was just standing around. I was told to move along, I was often threatened with the police, or with assault, for being who and what I was, but certainly not for any public illegal action. Nobody spoke up to defend me in such circumstances. And the people who failed to defend me weren’t (no offense to the exes) brainwashed cult members, but rather normal folks, living their lives, choosing not to see what was happening in front of them.
              It would have been easy for me to choose to carry a grudge against people in general for the treatment I received, or failed to receive, at their hands during those years. I chose otherwise. I choose to believe that people can and do change, and that most people are good at heart (unless they demonstrate otherwise to me).
              Lastly, while I can see how you might reasonably carry a grudge against the individuals who failed to defend you in your hometown, I think it’s *very* long odds that Laura was one of them. Thus, I think it very unfair of you to take out your anger on her.

            • WildaBeast

              Also, in reference to, “Is every ex scientologist a great person because they have left the cult?”

              Well, no, not necessarily. But leaving a cult is like leaving an abusive relationship; it’s hard, and you have to live with the consequences of what happened while you were in it for the rest of your life, and you may very well have huge material as well as mental and emotional consequences. For that, I believe every ex, like every person leaving an abusive relationship, deserves my sympathy and respect for having the courage to get out and begin a new life with the resources they have available.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Indeed. I’ve seen it. It’s a feeling like an Orwellian society- sickening. But Jeb- why don’t you move?

            • Robert Eckert

              Yes, yes, numerous people on this board have had similar experiences, and you insult them all indiscriminately.

            • richelieu jr

              I’m guessing very few of the folks around here were even around for the Clearwater invasion, and those that were weren’t calling the shots.

              And the idea that those have left haven’t changed their stripes is ludicrous on its face. Therea re all kinds hre, and for the most part I think we get on famously, even agreeing to disagree at times and still getting into passionate, but respectful discourse.

              Have you sepnt any time on this site? Have you ever been on any other internet sites, say ones discussing Star Trek vs Star Wars, for example?

            • Laura Dieckman

              You have a right to your opinion. I’m just saying you have no idea.

            • aquaclara

              The people that ruined MY hometown are LRH and COB. They are also responsible for ruining the lives and families of thousands of people who got caught inside the cult. Plus many outside the cult. Frankly, that’s all worse than losing a town. IMHO.

              Ease up, and our town will come back….

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              That was laugh-out-loud funny. That first sentence. In all due respect. The rest, I’m reading now… … oh, well- Jeb: you sound more like Jeb Bush than Jeb Clampbett (Beverly Hillbillies). But I sympathize, no doubt: your downtown Clearwater is like ‘zombie land’; a ghost town with robotic people in uniform dress, disliking any/all ‘native’ Clearwater people. That must suck- to have been devoured, really, as a community. Why don’t you move ?!?

            • Plotinus

              Wait…. I get it… Marcabia?

          • ThetaBara

            Hi Laura. Thanks for speaking up!
            We’re winning.

        • DamOTclese2

          You seem to think that “waiting for a 7-figure check” is some how a bad thing, some how wrong. I don’t know if you really are that stupid or whether you’re just an idiot. Seriously, she’s not a charity, she’s not Your Personal Army, she’s not “selling out” or anything stupid like you want to vaguely accuse her of.

          Personally I would *love* to see her sign a book deal, have her book go Best Seller and hit the charts in a big way. I would love her to write a book that goes in to multiple printings and makes her filthy, obscenely, disgustingly rich.

          Anything that helps to dismantle the Scientology crime syndicate is a win. Her first book could very well be one of a series, fully exposing what they did to her; what she saw the crime syndicate do to others, the full extent of Scientology’s human rights abuses fro her direct observations.

          Damn right I’d pay good money to read that.

        • Plotinus

          God almighty, stop repeating yourself.

        • AsthmaticDwarf

          Jeb- get a grip.

        • Robert Eckert

          It looks to me much more as if she intends making money by continuing her acting career. Jumping ship from her Scilon connections hurts somewhat but she has kept some friends in the business and is making new ones. She is making a conscious decision not to be a drama queen firing missiles at her former connections: producers and directors don’t like to hire those who are involved in dramas that distract from promoting the show, and don’t care whose fault the drama is. That is why she is stirring up as little drama as possible.

    • TheLurkingHorror

      I don’t know if she’s writing a book or not, but if she does, I can’t wait to see which talk shows interview her about it and which ones don’t. That would be interesting to me.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Hollywood is like, so OVER the whole ‘fear of scientology’ thang. It’s a joke now. The joke filters into major ongoing sitcoms and other television and cable shows. It filters into comedy routines. Scientology is known for being an asshole organization and it is thus the Butt of jokes.

    • TonyOrtega

      Why she isn’t saying more has nothing to do with a book deal. I’ve explained to you that her family tells me she has other concerns — chief among them remaining in contact with some people still in. You haven’t proved anything, and you will continue to be blasted for being such a douche about it.

      • Jeb Burton

        I was being sarcastic, but I still think the book deal is foremost in her mind. Its been months now, and she has said that her family and friends support her in this. But what happens next will tell us if she is willing to talk about her experiences for the morals or for the money.

        • TonyOrtega

          I think she will eventually tell her story. If she does so in a book or on a TV documentary or whatever, I have a feeling it will be chosen for accuracy and impact, not for the check she might receive. The thing that bugs me about the way you keep formulating this is that her going to the LAPD pretty much blew your theory out of the water. Even though it backfired on her a little, that was probably the ballsiest move ever made by anyone who had just left the church. And yet you never mention that, you only talk about her trying to cash in. It’s annoying.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Amen!

          • Jeb Burton

            Her going to the LAPD tells me that shes over being afraid of the cult. I have said I admire her for that. I just cant understand why she doesnt go to you, the Tampa Bay Times, or CNN and tell her story. All we get is snippets.

            • georget1952

              If you want to know what Scn does to people who leave, what they do to critics who speak out against them then read the stories already on the net. Why do you need Leah’s story so bad? And why does it need to be Right Now?

            • sugarplumfairy

              too bad Leah doesn’t understand that she lives only to fulfill all your desires.. Life could be so much more enjoyable if only others would do our bidding..

            • ThetaBara

              Dood. Give her time. She isn’t your personal army.

            • Django

              We critics expend a whole lotta oxygen proclaiming Scientology is a “Mind-Fuck”. Why are any of us surprised if a recent escapee’s mind turns out to be actually fucked?

              LR’s just out of an insane, controlling cult, one that is invariably described as The Cult It Takes The Longest To Recover From. She wants to take things slow? Hey, I’m all for it.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Good point. As frustrating as it is to never-ins, I guess that’s the score. Leah is still trying to see the forest for the trees.

            • DamOTclese2

              It took Tory some time before she was fully free to start talking about Scientology’s crimes and abuses, and I would opinion that Tory isn’t fully recovered for her 30 years of constant abuse suffered at the hands of Scientology.

              One thing I would like to hear from Leah is just how much money she figures the crooks managed to swindle out of her, out of her family. The abject lunacy of being able to be rooked and swindled out of $millions$ is embarrassing, but divulging the full details is also liberating.

            • Plotinus

              Me too. Fuck Jeb.

            • aquaclara

              Ok, Jeb. That’s asking a lot of someone who just made it out. Look, I have family that STILL won’t drive anywhere near Fort Cultville in Downtown Clearwater, won’t post a comment at the Tampa Bay Times, or even speak up in public against the cult. And they are normal, everyday people.

              Most people are still that scared. It’s been a rough road.
              And crap is still happening every day to those who do speak up.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Not necessarily directing this comment at just you, but in Jeb’s defence, I see where he is coming from. As a never-in, it is hugely frustrating to see the ‘victims’ of this criminal cult not do everything in their power to take it down immediately. We, as never-ins, have limited, if not no, power to do such damage, so as interested, or invested, observers, we rely on those just coming out to hit the cult with as much damage as possible.
              Now, having been informed by ex’s here that there is a decompression period, where a new escapee might need time to fully see and comprehend the monster that is the cult and every crime it perpetrated against them and those they witnessed, I accept that is true, but it is very difficult for us to really understand that frame of mind.
              This, I assume is Jeb’s plight, he wants to rid his town of this blight, but is virtually powerless to do it without the cooperation of the newly exes, who to him, won’t (aren’t able) to cooperate.
              From my perspective, this non-action straight away (one example is any legal ‘statue of limitations’ – the cult has relied upon it, otherwise it would have been killed long ago), is what has allowed the cult to continue, decade after decade, to get away with its crimes… and that’s the cycle that needs to stop – do not let them get away with any more! Jeb’s pushing is him trying to express that. It’s unfortunate that some exes feel their toes are being stepped on, but that’s all it is about.

            • Davka

              My issues with this particular discourse are twofold – he’s rude, and therefore it’s difficult to take, particularly when he mentions the same things over and over, and, personally, I don’t think exes owe us never ins a one size fits all way of proving contrition or “taking down” the cult. Unlike Monkey Knickers, Cap’n and a few others, the rest of us are just armchair critics.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I see what you are saying, but you aren’t obliged to read his posts. Let him say if five hundred times, he’s getting it off his chest.
              Nobody owes anyone anything… you are correct, but ‘armchair critics’ like us aren’t going to topple this cult… the exes are… and instead of babying newly exes, perhaps, if they truly want the cult DEAD, then maybe those that understand what the new exes are going through, the older exes, could take that responsibility to make sure the opportunities aren’t missed. I don’t know, but surely there is a way that this decompression might be fast-tracked a bit if someone who’d been through it themselves could get involved.
              If, on the other hand, we aren’t that serious about toppling the cult, then by all means, let everyone take their sweet time. It doesn’t affect me, my position over here is cushy, no $cilons or cult in sight… but if you want results, then you have to be proactive.
              In saying this, I want you to understand that I know that some people are, and have been for years… some have done great damage, and I applaud them… so I’m generalising, just so you understand me.

            • Davka

              I hear what you are saying, and in fact I do ignore posts on an as needed basis, but I think it was the response to Laura D., that bothered me the most. From what I understand, it can be a long way out, and it’s not our call how someone reacts, and whether thy choose to speak out – there are a myriad of factors at play, I think. I just don’t know that “fast-tracking” it would obtain the desired result.

            • EnthralledObserver

              “it’s not our call how someone reacts, and whether thy choose to speak out”
              I agree… but I can’t help thinking of the regrets that a lot of the older exes have about not taking the cult to task right away, and letting a stupid statute of limitations rob them of their justice because they had to plod slowly through their ‘decompression time’ first.

            • ThetaBara

              “Plod slowly through their decompression time? ”
              Have some freaking compassion, lady. The exes are not yr personal army!

            • ThetaBara

              That is an issue with the SOL and NOT with how people recover.
              I’m glad you’ve never had to deal with PTSD in your own life.
              You should be glad, too, because it is a MINDFUCK and not as easily gotten over as you might think it ought to be.

            • aquaclara

              I believe it’s the oppression that has allowed this to continue, evidenced through the fair gaming, black PR, harassment, spy activity, and vexatious litigation. And people are still very afraid.

              If police, newspapers and journalists, politicians, judges, businesses and the IRS can be afraid of this cult, so can exes and neighbors. We have more work to do, working together, to get this thing put away.

            • EnthralledObserver

              The oppression is only effective if you allow yourself to be oppressed. Times are a-changing… it’s time to push if you want this era to come to an end.

            • aquaclara

              Not so easy for those who have seen businesses and reputations destroyed just for speaking out. This has been going on for a long time, and while I hope it will end soon, there is still a lot of work to be done.

              It is not fun experiencing the harassment of the cult. It has destroyed a lot of people. I don’t agree, from what I have seen and experienced, that the cult’s oppression is only effective if you let it.

              The damage has gone far deeper than that, sadly. And for a lot less than walking publicly away from the cult.

            • ThetaBara

              Yeah, well, it STILL isn’t their job. Sorry. Get your own army.
              We’re all doing all we can. You do that too and eventually we will prevail.

            • DamOTclese2

              She doesn’t spill it all out because she has a real life to attend to. She’s not going to do what you or anyone else hopes she does, she’s her own person, not Your Personal Army.

              If she does a book, that would be awesome. Damn right I would stand in line to purchase a copy. I have my hopes that some day she does write a book, two books, anything that covers new stuff she witnessed.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              For an Actress and Entertainer I would call going on DWTS…employment.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              You’ll get it, Jeb- her focus is her acting career. Not a book. Forget it.

          • richelieu jr

            Yeah, I gotta say that going to the Cops really gave her a lot of credibility in my eyes. Certainly no one can call her craven or mercenary after that…

          • deselby

            Leah’s move didn’t backfire at all. It was courageous and brilliant. She accomplished at least 3 things. 1) The report told Shelly that someone cares about her. Maybe that seed will grow. 2) It put another negative scientology story in another national news cycle. 3) It was a personal annoyance for Miscavige.

            • aquaclara

              And it was a totally normal question to ask in the world that is not the cult. Quite surprising for someone “in” to this degree, and reflective of her upbringing and good heart.

            • DamOTclese2

              Anything that climbs up David Miscaviage’s ass is a win, true.

        • AsthmaticDwarf

          She’s going to be willing, at her good time and choice. She has her career. Her focus is to build a continuing success in her acting career- a controversial book, if she came out with one, would take away from her ‘casting’ desirability. She knows that. And will pursue her acting.

      • georget1952

        You have no proof whatsoever, Jeb. You have not talked to her or her family have you? Tony has, so I tend to believe him. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. If you are going to post on a public site you have to have a thick skin and not get mad at someone just because they do not agree with you.

    • ze moo

      I would like to see Leah’s take on her years in the clamdom, but not yet. She probably isn’t ready to curse the wit and wisdom of Lroon yet. She needs some time to get a perspective. At the moment, I see Leah’s book being 85% about ‘King of Queens’ and her baby and 5% about $cientology. I want much more about being brought up in the scam and how the clebs are treated. She isn’t ready to ‘tell all’ yet.

    • DamOTclese2

      Leah is not an Anonymous Army that anyone can order around, she’s a victim of Scientology tyranny and human rights abuses who will be divulging what they did to her as and when she wishes. Damn, right she should wait and produce a block-buster best-selling book about what they did to her, what they do to customers who actually have money, customers who used to have a career before signing on with the Scientology corporation’s frauds.

      When Leah comes out with a book, it will contain specific details about events and people that will be highly regarded as legitimate and timely. I for one will be damn sure to get my book order in as soon as it’s clear she’s going to produce one.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        I don’t think any body should hold their breath, really, y’all. Leah is an actor; she has a career; she wants the focus on developing a successful segue to something other than her ‘in-the-past’ hit series. Like Elfman, she may never reach a similar success level; and **all** ‘past-hit-series’ stars want to get a continuing career accomplishment that has the same or higher level of success attached. A book would totally ruin her perception-in-the-industry for casting, for example. She will remain doing what she’s doing now – being very uncontroversial in her public reaction. She has a continuing career to build. That is paramount for her.

        • DamOTclese2

          That’s true. If a book happens, it happens, if not — well we probably know pretty much everything, and to be sure *nothing* is beyond the Scientology organization in terms of horrific behavior. We will learn new incidents of tyranny regardless as they happen.

  • dbloch7986

    I think it was very penetrating. She said enough to make her point and her disdain for the organization was audible and visible, without being distracting. You don’t need to say a lot about Scientology anymore. Just at the mention of it most people shake their heads.

    • DamOTclese2

      In fact these days if a stand-up comic merely takes the microphone and says “Scientology” and pauses, the whole house waits a few seconds and then starts laughing. It’s a whole different ballgame these days than it was up to the mid 1990s or so.

  • Moonshot

    In my 20+ year history with the CoS, i dont know of a single instance where a departing individual so thoroughly connected as Leah, who has so many family members in the Church and for such a long time, has succeeded in engineering a departure where ALL of the family come with.

    This is an amazing accomplishment.

    I think it speaks very much to Leah’s intelligence and committment to her loved ones, but also perhaps to a sea change in perceptions of those cult members still in the Church. Despite the efforts of DM and his minions to effectuate TOTAL INFORMATION UN-AWARENESS on the part of their membership regarding the scandals and nastiness of their leardership and general church policy, it would seem that much more of this info is leaking into the flocks awareness than they would like.

    As the President of The Society of Departed Scientologists, i Hereby and Forthwith issue a COMMENDATION to Leah for a job VERY WELL DONE. This Commendation will go into her PERMANENT Ethics File with the Association and will be a perpetual INDULGENCE againt any future Ethics Violation Leah may commit for anything including and up to any Gross Violation of the Code of Conduct of the Association or any other such acitons as we Hereby and HairDo deem unsanctioned, excepting any situation where Leah repents and Re-Joines the Church of Scientology in any of its Guises.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I think I know of at least one family, VERY well connected, who are all out. I don’t know if they are ‘under the radar’ or not, so I won’t give away the names. There are people who do manage it.

  • dbloch7986

    I have seen a couple of comments talking about Leah “letting it all out”. Let me tell you from experience, Scientology is not something you can just “let out”.

    First of all, similar to abuse victims, there is a whole sector of society that is devoted to discrediting victims. They are called abusers and bullies. You can spot them with their comments like, “How could you even get sucked into something so stupid, I would never fall for that.”

    Then there is the disconnect between life in Scientology and life outside of it. It’s a whole other world. Some things you just cannot explain to people who know little or nothing about Scientology.

    The fact that Leah is not saying much is a byproduct of what people like us have been through. She knows that once her mouth opens there will be nothing but questions and it will literally consume her career. I don’t blame her for not wanting her career overshadowed by an evil cult.

    I am very discretionary when I choose my words about Scientology. Mentioning one thing could easily consume an entire evening. I’d rather spend that time laughing and talking about useful things. So most of the time I just use my wit to make a joke and blow it off. I save the long discussions for my therapist, for the Bunker and for my blog where I can spend the time explaining things.

    • Truthiwant

      Very true.

    • no_srsly

      JMO but all of your posts are spot-on…you make it easy for the uninitiated to grasp an insider’s (now outsider’s) point of view. Thank you for that.

    • ThetaBara

      I totally get this, and I’m glad you have here to let it out. The things you say from your experience add value, here, and we get it.

      • Mooser

        I read that comment and realized what a futile and negative way “How could you be so stupid…” or “Why did you get sucked in…” is to discuss the subject. I won’t do that from now on. All that recrimination doesn’t help anything. However they got in, they got in. People get into lots of things, the important thing is that they get out.

        • kickingit101

          Asking someone how could they be so stupid as to get sucked in by a cult is about as effective as saying to a diabetic who is about to have their foot amputated for a severe infection. How could you have been so stupid as to let your foot get infected. The question does nothing but put the person you are questioning in a defensive posture. How they got there doesn’t matter what matters is that they are now in a pickle and they need help getting better.

    • Miss Tia

      THANK YOU for your insight!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you Derek, you always make so much sense. She is one brave lady and deserves all the best coming her way. And you are one very brave man! I love your posts – you are always so insightful. I am so glad you got out with your soul intact – and all of us Bunkerites on your side!

    • richelieu jr

      I used to think exactly that, you know “How could you get into such a screwy religion in the first place?”, that sort of thing..

      the thing is, 99.99 percent of people have no idea how sick and screwed up the whole thing is… If you even try and tell them they either think you are exagerating, or just making it up.

      • aquaclara

        This is so true. And if you over-share too much at once, they look at you funny! “My, you must be a hater of all religions.” Nope, just this one.

      • phronsie

        Yeah, I’ve been sharing things I’ve been learning about the cult on my FB, but I think everyone is pretty much tuning me out now; “why are you obsessed with those wackos?” But then a good handful of my friends are x-ICOC, so they already know some of the score, I guess….Still, the message seems to be that anyone can take a wrong turn and get pulled into their quicksand, and FB is one of my few outlets for putting out the word.

        • GlibWog

          Bawwwwwwwwwwwhahahhaha…

          I adore my hubby.. Adore him.. He has no idea.. I attempted to discuss this obsession with him a couple of times..

          I think he thinks I am a Scientologist.. hahahhaha.. I have every book I swear ever written.. So all he sees is me reading Going Clear, Jenna’s book.. Rathbun’s… Headleys, Jeff’s.. Piece of Blue Sky.. etc..
          or on here..

          He literally glazes over.. when I talk to him..

          When he saw that I signed up for Disq .. I told him why.. ( I mean really You either get it or you don’t…)

          He’s like.. ” Oh I am sure that Scientology is worried about what you have to say and would try to stop you.. One little Old lady..

          Unless you have been in.. are still in.. or done your research and read it is just hard to explain to people the true nature of the criminal organization Mind Fuck known as Scientology.

          • aquaclara

            You’re not the only one! My hubby is watching football, and I am enjoying the Bunker on my tablet….

            • GlibWog

              Isn’t that funny.. My hubby is on a Fishing/boat forum and they aren’t allowed to even say damn.. I think that funny ..

              He’s a Man’s Man.. and so is on the forum…He is a gentleman who does not swear…married to a Potty Mouth..

              When I made the Tator Tot saying.. YSCOHB … He’s like what is that.. and I told him.. and he walked away saying..

              ” That is just Vulgar and disgusting ..” He thought I made it up..( hahahhaha )

            • aquaclara

              Oh, that is tooo funny.

            • GlibWog

              I know.. hahaha Like I would talk like Tiny Boots..ugh

            • Eivol Ekdal

              did he get to see the “wonder boner” video?

            • GlibWog

              Eivol.. He absolutely Laughed his Ass off… ahahahaha..

              I said.. ” Honey.. would you like to buy this to clean your fish? ”

              He says, ” I catch and release.. What is it?”

              He watched the whole thing and said.. ” Good God… That wouldn’t happen like that in a Million years… and he kept laughing.. “

          • Mia

            I totally understand.I have been a Scientology watcher for about four years .I started reading Tony’s blog at The Village Voice, which lead me to Lawrence Wright, Marc Headley, etc. I try to explain Scientology and all of their abuses to my boyfriend, but there is so much to it and sometimes I just don’t know where to start.

            • GlibWog

              Mia… Welcome, Welcome… Yay.. We love lurkers comin in..It is amazing isn’t it..

              I swear my hubby thinks I’m making it up.. He’s like..” Come on now if all that is true why isn’t someone in prison.. ? ” How do you answer that in 5 minutes..

              He doesn’t ever give me 5 minutes ..oh he does, but he fakes it… after my saying SCN hahahha.. So glad you are here Mia..

    • Doug Parent

      “Scientology is not something you can just “let out”…” Good point. There are multiple layers of indoctrination that run deep in that cult. And there are many layers of truth glued in there to make it a bitch to unravel.

    • AsthmaticDwarf

      What’s the URL name of your blog, dbloch7986 ?

    • DamOTclese2

      The people who believe “I would never fall for that” are the first people who fall for it. People who realize that they can fall for obvious frauds will have their Bullshit Detectors turned on constantly whereas people who honestly believe “I would never fall for that” will step right in to crimes that are absolutely obvious to most of us.

  • Aslansown

    There are other clips from the show (one with her joking around with her mom in the audience) here: http://www.ellentv.com/2013/09/09/exclusive-leah-remini-on-her-mom/#comments

    • DamOTclese2

      That was neat, her mother is awesome, she’s hew own thinker, looks to me from the clip that she doesn’t give a damn about what others think, she’s her own person.

  • chris

    Of course it will have an impact because she’s publically admitting that disconnection exists (without actually calling it that.) Hopefully, the world will see what a sinister, stupid, money-making extortionist racket it is. Keep talking Leah! And by the way, why would anyone need 3 MONTHS OF INTERROGATIONS THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR, for asking if someone is coming to a wedding? That in itself (without mentioning The Hole, the physical assaults, the imprisonment, the brainwashing) is insane.

  • BosonStark

    Well, that was pretty good. Too bad she didn’t say, spent dozens of years, “and millions of dollars.” She probably got one of the best points across though, about not being able to speak to her clam friends and they won’t talk to her. That says a lot.

    • AnyOldName1

      I think people are more sympathetic to losing friends and family than money b/c they are forced to disconnect. Something about a “fool and his money are soon parted?”

      • BosonStark

        No religion is as blatant about buying every step of your spiritual path as Scientology. Some others have shunning. Since Scientology advertises that you can drop into a Sunday service for free, or attend one of their low cost intro courses, the high prices of the upper levels and constant harangue for donations are distinguishing features of this money-sucking scam.

        • Miss Tia

          EXACTLY what does one of their ‘Sunday services’ consist of?? I read Going Clear and Beyond Belief and I don’t recall seeing a thing about Sunday services in either book, nor in anything else I’ve read. I mean, do you all join e-meters and chant LRH LRH LRH til the needle floats?

          • georget1952

            I believe “Sunday Services” are just a gimmick to get new “bodies” in the door so they can sell them something. And to keep the IRS happy….

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It’s just a sham. When they do put on a dog and pony show on Sundays for the pure reason of putting on a “look like a religion” act for someone, what’s done is usually similar to Objectives or lower level bridge malarkey, like “look at that wall.” Or …Turn to the person to your right and say “hello”.

            The only difference in these Sunday Service shams with the normally scheduled scam is that they don’t steal your credit cards during a Sunday Service.

            • Miss Tia

              I almost wish there was a ‘church’ in my area, but the closet seems to be Columbus or Cincinnati (I’m in Akron, Ohio). I actually worked for a $cieno once. He had a headhunting company and he and his wife would vacation on the $cieno boat every year for like 4-6 weeks.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh my. Let me guess…there was a personality test as part of the process? And who takes 6 weeks off at a time that owns a business but scientologist owners do it all the time.
              What is it you were hoping to see? There’s probably a video of whatever somewhere. And I don’t even think the current one is in Cinci anymore. In Kentucky, near the border.

            • Miss Tia

              Actually NO! There was no personality test as part of the process and I didn’t know he was a $cieno until I was there awhile! Then some of the things he had said made ‘sense’—he was using $cieno lingo but at that time I wasn’t aware of it.

              If there was one close by, I’d actually GO just for ‘fun’. 🙂 I’ve done the personality tests online before, then you get emails begging you to join for months and I finally got them to stop when I said something like ‘look I know you’re a hard working person but you need to know you’re brainwashed and there’s a huge world you know nothing about as they keep it from you and I feel sorry for you and I hope you escape some day’. Viola! no more emails!

            • Miss Tia

              I just googled and they say there’s one in Columbus.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hmmm, so they bought this building….can’t keep up with what is PR BS and what’s what as far as new future buildings… too tired atm to check more. Dianetics mission?

              http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/hugh_urban_an_i.php

            • Miss Tia

              Oh another rabbit hole article to read! 🙂 Will go read that now!! I did just go and look up the Columbus addy on the map and do a street view. The window does say CO$ but there’s also a big ‘for sale’ sign on the building and that’s the only ‘business’ in the building! I dunno how current the street view is. Oh, they let me look at photos with that addy in the background on the google map. Some were from the 2012 St. Paddy’s parade. That shows the ‘for sale’ sign on the building. Hmmmm…..Don’t tell me the building is a false front and the phone # goes to a phone probably at the other place on the Cinci/Kentucky border!

    • ThetaBara

      I think Ellen knows precisely what time it is. And I think this whole thing was really well played. Ellen’s audience has google too, you knw.

  • Mary_McConnell
  • 1subgenius

    It’s a start and appropriate to the circumstances.

  • Edward Whalley

    I’ll be your friend. And you’ve got friends all over the world now. Be strong. Be happy. I felt that when I went to Hamburg, and saw the happy faces of those who would stand by me…

  • media_lush

    ….. unbelievable 54 shot rally, Nadal vs Djokovic…. brilliant game Nadal won first set, Djokovic has break in 2nd

    …. anyway, Ellen is broadcast until 4pm on West Coast… any chance we can put a hidden camera in Kirstie’s place?

    • Observer

      It’ll be interesting to see what turns up on Twitter.

    • ze moo

      You will be able to hear her reactions, anywhere, even target 2…

    • aboutandout

      She is too busy fundraising…no time for Ellen. There are buildings to build.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        “No Time For Ellen” … great movie. I didn’t know Kirstie did a remake. Andy Griffith’s role?

        http://i44.tinypic.com/zlddur.jpg

        • aboutandout

          I will have to check it out…love watching the oldies on a rainy day.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That picture was a scene from the classic: “No Time For Sergeants” starring Andy Griffith.

            Next you’re going to tell me you never heard of the Beatles and then I’d have to go to bed extra early tonight…groan.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Time_for_Sergeants

            http://youtu.be/qqg4rJPUxGs

            • aboutandout

              You are good for the night, I have heard of the Beatles and I am pretty sure I have seen the movie I like Andy Griffith he reminds me of my dad.

      • 1subgenius

        As the Scientologists in Budapest know all too well.

        http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-budapest-boondoggle/

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Depends. Does she leave a crumb trail?

      http://i39.tinypic.com/2mmiadh.jpg

      • Lark Smith

        LOL! She does have a love for critters of all kinds. 😉

    • 1subgenius

      Damn, I missed that. Thanks for the update.

  • Unex Skcus

    Good one, Ms Remini, seems to me to be a case of “less is more”. Bet Google had a spike in people searching for info on Co$. Not a Twitterer, but wondering what Krusty will be spitting out?

  • richelieu jr

    Interesting how she always says organization rather then ‘church’ or Ellen’s “Religion”…

    A better interviewer would have picked up on that…

    • 1subgenius

      Ellen is no Mike Wallace.
      Her show is not “60 Minutes”.
      It’s not an interview, it’s a chat.

      • richelieu jr

        Having worked as a ‘pre interviewer’ on talk shows, part of me wonders how much of that conversation was worked out before they went on the air. I don’t know how they do it on Ellen, so I can’t say, but I never worked on one where the guest had no say over what they’d talk about. As 1subgenius says, they save that for news shows.
        Then again, her little quip at the very end of the show (not in this clip) seems pretty off the cuff and Remini clearly laughs in surprise…

  • EnthralledObserver

    Is it just me, of after Ellen calls to the commercial break, it looked as though Leah said something like “Is that all we’re going to talk about?” to Ellen, and then sat back looking a bit more relaxed?
    If so, damn Ellen for being too hasty and easy… Leah looked like she was prepared to say more, she just needed the questions to answer!

    • Aslansown

      I was wondering what she said.

    • 1subgenius

      I don’t think Ellen usually deals with horrendously serious subject matter. And she’s a comedian, it would be hard to pull that off.
      This was a toe in the water, and for Ellen’s audience it was enough. Nod nod wink wink say no more,is all they need to get the gist: “It’s fucked up, and we love Leah.”
      Also, it would cast quite a pall on her DWTS stint.
      Speaking of which, I wonder how they will dance around the issue? I suspect a similar treatment, if it’s mentioned at all.
      This is fine.. By just being out there and being lovable Leah is doing a fuckton. It is excellent.

      “Since Leah is cool, and she left Scientology, that shit must be fucked up.”
      This is the level of analysis by most of this society.

      • aquaclara

        Nice analysis.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I imagine you are correct, and for Ellen’s audience demographic this interview was probably perfect, but I guess my point was that Leah seemed willing to answer more questions, if what I suggested was said, was actually said. Meaning, of course, that given the opportunity of a more hard hitting interviewer, we might get more of Leah’s story. It might not be a case of her not being completely unwilling or not ready to divulge more…
        Although, I guess if she was willing, then I imagine there are many other requests for interviews that would have sufficed, but Leah did not take them up… yet.
        These were just my fleeting, initial, and probably totally wrong observations… just putting it out there.

    • Robert Eckert

      I thought the body language indicated that it was more “Whew, glad we got through that!”

  • richelieu jr

    Did Ellen seem covertly hostile to any of you, or is it just me..?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I’m going with just you on this one, richelieu.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Oh, I dunno about that… given my post just previous, maybe richelieu is on to something?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Yeah, I realized I hadn’t seen the whole thing after I wrote that, so deleted, but not quick enough!

    • sugarplumfairy

      It’s just you..

    • 1subgenius

      No, but you do.
      (Said with love.)

    • TheLurkingHorror

      HaHa, definitely a 1.1, bless her heart. 😉

      (I’m half in love with her)

  • 1subgenius

    Derail:

    Conan did a bit on Trebek going insane.

    Here is the (fake) clue:

    And the (fake) correct response was “What is Scientology?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoLi7ZCqBaY

    • Captain Howdy

      That was great. One of the instances I wish I had cable.

      • 1subgenius

        I only have less than basic, but let me keep you up to date:
        “57 channels and there’s nothing on.”
        If they couldn’t fill 4 networks with quality programming, how the hell could they possibly do it with 100+?
        And I actually found the clip from youtube, not the TV, which I rarely put on, except for Jeopardy.
        Man I love that show.

        • AsthmaticDwarf

          You need to get ready for what’s coming from Davey, producing out of the old KCET 13 studios in Hollywood. This purchase will dramatically change the effectiveness of CoS “releases”, be they propaganda, programs, Events, talk shows, whatever. If the Miniature Machiavellian plays it right, he can – with zero new additions from Div 6 efforts, as in **no** new bodies in the shop — prolong the “perceptive” appearance that CoS is a thriving, expanding enterprise. IF- he has the brains and the self-control to make it happen. I don’t think the seriously sociopathic 5′ 3″ machiavellian midget can pull it off, though. But if he gets help, the KCET effect could be huge.

          • 1subgenius

            I fervently hope they start broadcasting.
            The lulz would be endless.
            It will never happen.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              I do hope you’re right, 1sub, because it’s a huge and powerful platform. Being a media head, and being subgenius as you are, we both know it could be a ‘terrible’ and powerful weapon to keep the sheeple in line. The only media they would be allowed to watch would be sheeple media. I hope you right, 1 sub!

        • Captain Howdy

          I go over to my friends house for the weekend occasionally and he has the huge flat screen and cable and except for sports and TCM there isn’t SHIT worth watching. I remember there being all kinds of good stuff to watch in the 60’s and 70’s when there were like half a dozen channels.

          Anything on cable I wanna watch I watch for free on the PC like GoT or WD (even though I rag the shit out of it). I just found a free link to watch Monday Night Football – Die Michael Sick Die.

    • richelieu jr

      Speaking of which: Anybody hear about Scientology trying to convert Miley Cyrus a few years back? Cracked did some stuff on it, among others…

  • aquaclara

    Love how quickly a new post appears here….wow.
    I thought Ellen gave Leah a wonderful, soft, cushy landing to begin her exit. She was in the cult for a long time, and talking about it has to be unnerving.
    Ellen extended her friendship in sympathy and support. That is huge. Most of all, it was sincere – which will help Leah with the next conversation.
    Oh, and I think Ellen darn well knows that something is up with this cult. She is smart, and does her homework.
    Leah’s story will come out over time, when she’s ready.

    • 1subgenius

      Here’s a second upvote, in writing.
      It was perfect!
      Leah has to establish, that she’s likable, believable, and not a “bitter defrocked apostate” to be given weight in her upcoming revelations.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Today was a really good start..

    • 1subgenius

      And now that you mention it, this may be the start of the choosing sides I predict Hollywood will be forced or choose to do. Both ways.
      So, Ellen is friends with Leah. Can Kirstie now be friends with Ellen?

      • aquaclara

        And don’t forget where Oprah is with Tom Cruise.

        Kirstie is passé. And more whacked than TC.

        Ellen also chose Leah for her first show of the season. Nice.

    • Jon Hendry

      “I think Ellen darn well knows that something is up with this cult”

      I don’t think you could be a comedian in Hollywood and *not* know. Scientology is a target-rich environment for humor. Even if comedians were afraid to perform the jokes on stage, they’d likely joke to each other about it.

      • aquaclara

        Well….we know there is much material to chuckle over!

      • GlibWog

        Jon I agree.. and I also believe that she is throwing support to the Anti Scn. by having Leah in.

    • Ruby

      I agree that this was a very good thing. Brief and classey on Leah’s part. The cult is looking for anything on Leah’s part to complain about and she is not giving it to them. When you compare Leah’s handling of all this to how the cult responds, it is a difference between night and day.

  • Artoo45

    Okay, so she didn’t spill the beans . . . yet. Does she sing? If so, I’ve penned a lovely tune for her.

    THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM
    (Sung to the tune of Copacabana) Apologies to Mr. Manilow

    (verse 1)
    His name was Xenu
    He was a despot
    He wore a crown upon his head
    All the Marcabians wished him dead

    He built an army
    And froze his people
    He threw ‘em into big space planes
    They were frozen and in pain

    (bridge 1)
    Dropped them on tee-gee-ack
    He didn’t take no flack
    Then he nuked ‘em and trapped their thetans
    Now they’re on your back

    (chorus 1)
    On the bridge now
    To total freedom
    They’ll meter your Thetans and bleed ‘em

    On the bridge now
    To total freeeedom
    Money and power will force you to cower
    on the bridge now . . .

    Don’t slip and fall

    (verse 2)
    His name was Elron
    He was a con man
    With liver-lips and bright red hair
    and a Shakespearean kind of flair

    He wrote of Xenu
    And the Marcabians
    Penned Dianetics in three weeks
    Tuned his whole family into freaks

    (bridge 2)
    He made them hold soup-cans
    And tell him all their plans
    Then he told them that they were really
    Only sons-of-clams

    (chorus 2)
    On the bridge now
    To total freedom
    They’ll meter your Thetans and bleed ‘em

    On the bridge now
    To total freeeeedom
    Wallets with cash-in are always in fashion
    On the bridge now . . .

    Don’t drop your guard

    (verse 3)
    His name is Davey
    He’s a big being
    He likes to slap ad beat his staff
    Just because it makes him laugh

    He built a building
    that is his mecca
    With oily tables in a row
    (I think they’re really just for show)

    (bridge 3)
    Owns your e-ter-ni-ty
    With his te-mer-i-ty
    And I swore I would never say it
    but he’s so tiny

    (chorus 3)
    He’s on the bridge now
    To total freedom
    He takes home your folders to read ‘em

    He’s on the bridge now
    To total freeeedom
    Case gain and isness

    Is his only business
    One the bridge now . . .

    He’ll reg you hard

    Don’t drop your guard

    He’ll reg you hard

    (repeat and fade)

    • AsthmaticDwarf

      Love it, Artoo — you rock !!

      • Artoo45

        I’d do a garageband version to go with my previous efforts What’s The Matter With You Hat? and Space Station 33, but it’s really better if I don’t sing . . . ever. But if the very talented Mr. Lugli and company were in the mood for a lark, then I could see it as a sort of danceable We Stand Tall of the critical set. The cheesier the better.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          I wrote some lyrics for we stand tall a couple of days ago. THDNE provided the tag: “We stand Trial”. So, of course my brain went wild…..

    • Sherbet

      Laughing here. Perfect. (One typo: Davey likes to slap AND beat his staff…

      And thanks for the earworm.

    • ThetaBara

      HOLY CRAP, DUDE!

      You win the internets. All of thems.

  • MagicJesus

    I’ve never liked Ellen…
    She seems the type of person to me that would be IN scientology.
    I could see her being bff’s with Jenna.

    • Artoo45

      Seemin’ ain’t bein’.

      • 1subgenius

        I’ve noticed that too. Well put.

        • Artoo45

          Sounds better all homespun and old-timey, don’t it?

          • Sandy

            Ellen is good people

          • 1subgenius

            Yup.

      • MagicJesus

        That’s why I said “seems”…

    • richelieu jr

      FWIW, even though I was never a big fan of her stand up (never seen either of her shows) I was slightly acquainted with her in the early 90s and she was uniformly sunny polite and remembered my name.

    • Jeb Burton

      wow. Someone more cynical than me. How can you not like Ellen?. Even my homophobe, right wing aunt likes her. But she makes it clear she doesnt approve of her lifestyle.

    • aquaclara

      Stop. I love her. You can go watch Oprah reruns, ok? And being BFFs with Jenna would be quite fab.
      🙂

    • DamOTclese2

      Ellen has a brain, plus she’s a progressive which means she’s got an IQ a minimum of 10 points above the typical Republidiot. No way would she fall for such obvious frauds.

    • MagicJesus

      This was a great demographic experiment for the site.
      Over 50, with a soft spot for boring comics, and a general love for dumb songs and dumber photoshop jpegs. Look, I put Miscavige in a diaper hahahaaa love me.
      I’ll continue to fight the good fight solo.

  • 1subgenius

    I’ve always liked Ellen. She is funny. I can tell. I laugh. If you don’t, she’s not funny to you, and that’s OK.
    She was quick in this segment. When Leah was saying how you conceal the device under your clothes, Ellen quickly said, “Yeah, they just see this tube coming from under your clothes.” She was listening, and not just thinking of what she was going to say when it was her turn.
    Are all the best women gay, married, or both?
    Big Jane Lynch fan too.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Apropos of nothing:

    Miscavigae is a Dainty Miss,
    it looms in inner sorrow.
    So when we troll the Dainty Miss,
    Paranoia is sure to follow.

  • pronoia

    Leah Remini ‏@LeahRemini1m
    Thank you all for watching @TheEllenShow and for your support in general! You are a great group of folks! Xoxo

  • nottrue

    Ive never watched Ellen . She was funny and made me laugh. leah got out alittle bit about disconnection.Not much but better that nothing.

  • SandiCorrena

    She called it an organization rather than a church; I liked that too!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Before I end off, for any that had complaints about Leah’s and Ellen’s remarks today ….

    There was only a few minutes of remarks, but there’s already almost 300 comments about it here. If they’d had an entire 5 minutes discussion on the topic, the complaints would be up to 1000 by now. This just might be Leah kept it short as someone who is newly out, at least publicly.

  • Jeb Burton

    Peace and love to all. Heading for the local sports bar for Monday night football. Thanks for all the love.

    • Robert Eckert

      MMMMWWAAHHH!

  • 1subgenius

    Talk show audiences take big time cues from the hosts.
    About everything.
    When a big time talk show host makes their view of something known, and its usually quite subtle, the audience adopts that stance. Politics, sports, culture, when the audience and even the nation can’t decide whether to shit or go blind on a subject, they go with what that host said.

  • media_lush

    can anyone with a twitter account who has not been blocked by Kirstie The Hutt please tweet her and ask what she thought of the Ellen show

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley

    • 1subgenius

      And whether she can be friends with Ellen, since Ellen is friends with Leah.
      Hehehehe.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Done..

      • 1subgenius

        Oh please, please ask my question.
        Can she be friends with Ellen since Ellen’s friends with Leah?

        • sugarplumfairy

          Done..

          • 1subgenius

            You are truly a platinum humanitarian in my book.

            • sugarplumfairy

              And it didn’t cost me a penny.. Hey, almost 20 min in and she hasn’t blocked me..

            • 1subgenius

              I’m not a twit, so I don’t know these things, but would your posts show up to the public before she blocks you?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Didn’t Nixon say that? “I am not a twit!”

            • 1subgenius

              I think so.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Looks like she’s selective who shows up on hers..only her own and those of her business..

              You can see them on my end.. @witlesstwit

            • Miss Tia

              i think they STILL show up to the public after someone has even blocked you….i could be wrong about that….i’ll check my twitter in the morning to see if my tweets to her and TC are still viewable! 🙂 i’m @misstia on twitter and they still show on my account…..

              https://twitter.com/misstia

    • Miss Tia

      i sent three….couldn’t help myself….i’m @misstia

      @kirstiealley What did you think of Ellen today? Is Ellen still your friend or will you disconnect? What if you have something to promote?

      @kirstiealley if ‘the tech’ in Co$ is so great, why do you still have weight problems? do i have the fucking rank to ask that? #Xenu #cult

      @kirstiealley WHERE IS SHELLY MISCAVIGE??? People don’t disappear like that normally! You condone what DM does?? You for violence? #SHAME

      • Plotinus

        Ellen is an SP!!

        • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

          Just look it up in the only valid source of data about the mind of man, Science of Survival by L Ron Hubbard (buy more books by the same author), Ellen is of course a 1.1, a seething mass of covert hostility.

      • 1subgenius

        I am impressed. She will undoubtedly block you though.

        The second sentence of the first one, alone, might have gotten through. Or even just “Is Ellen still your friend?”

        And now that I think of it “Is Ellen still your friend?” would be a good, seemingly innocuous question, that should be put to Kirstie at every opportunity. It raises so many issues stealthily.

        • Miss Tia

          Thanks, yeah, I’m sure I’ll get blocked, but I figured I’d have fun whilst doing so! 🙂 Actually I think I might start twittering/FB posting on their walls $cieno celebs asking them about Ellen AND about Shelly Miscavige!

      • Eclipse-girl

        TY, Miss Tia for such important questions. I know you will keep us up dated with what ever happens.

        • Miss Tia

          Well as they’ve said I’ll more than likely be blocked! But if I get any kind of reply I most certainly will post that here!!

      • aquaclara

        LOL!

        • Miss Tia

          I bet ‘Team TC’ who runs Tom Cruise’s twitter is a bunch of Sea Org members. Sent him a few too.

          @TomCruise Are you still friends with Ellen? Or are you waiting for DM to tell you how to think about that? #ThinkForYourself

          @TomCruise WHERE is Shelly Miscavige? Bet you wish you could have banished Katie like that eh? #TheHole #Xenu #Cult #FreeShelly

          @TomCruise If ‘the tech’ is so great why are still so insecure about your heighth & wear lifts in your shoes? Why is DM so violent? #LRHLiar

          • aquaclara

            You told ’em! TC’s is probably all run by his PR people, just like his website. But if they are Scilons, they will see them, and maybe start to question…..you never know!

            • Miss Tia

              I’m sure ‘team TC’ are sea org peoples, isn’t pretty much everyone in his organization aside from his attorney and manager $cienos? yeah, if it can make just ONE question, then that’s a good thing! And for some reason the ‘little general’ looks at his twitter and sees that, well let’s hope he gets hopping mad! 🙂

    • DeElizabethan

      Done.

      • aquaclara

        Go, DeE! Ok, I am so excited that you have new Supercomputer Powerzzzz! Just in time….
        NOW we can go watch September and October unfold….

        • DeElizabethan

          Hey thanks Aquaclara. Much easier now, tho I’ve tripled my use in other areas too. So nice and fast this is now. Great months a comin’ and lots of happenings. Hey, it’s been like that all year, every day and even twice a day, whoopie! We’re always gaining and big thanks to Tony and the Bunker.

      • ThetaBara

        Welcome back! Great to see your typeface.

    • media_lush

      … hmmm, twitter silence and it’s been over for almost 2 hours now….. I wonder if she watched with the same bunch of scion cronies she discussed Leah’s defection with in the first place [which she tweeted about] …. whatever the loon might be thinking she couldn’t of NOT noticed the crowd support Leah got re the leaving scientology bit…. that must have hit quite a few of her narcissist buttons.

      (Betcha Kelly Preston watched it with her)

    • Plotinus

      Or how about posting on Ellen’s twitter:

      “Did Scientology make you an SP yet?”

    • Nevermore

      I already did that and got no reply!

  • 1subgenius

    The more I think about the line, “I think you were kicked out of Scientology.” the more I like it, and it’s overall impact. Said a lot in those few words. That’s a skill and an art. Ellen shot and scored. And probably did more than if she had done a serious extended in-depth interview.
    Damn, she’s better than I thought.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      My read of the subtext was “Damn Girl, You have a wicked sense of humor! No wonder they kicked you out!”

      • 1subgenius

        Precisely. And think of all the issues that then raises in the listeners/viewers minds.
        Brilliant!

  • allioops

    Praise the Lord!!!!! Miracles Do Occur!

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I kind of liked the whole casually dismissive tone the exchange took. The major point was there, and I think it will lead people to look into it more themselves.

  • 1subgenius

    And the more I think about it, the “You have me, I’m your friend, we’re your friends.” is getting me a little misty.

    • sugarplumfairy

      you’re so cute..

      • 1subgenius

        You obviously have highly refined powers of perception.

    • 1subgenius

      The “we’re your friends” reiterated a point I made earlier about talk show audiences taking their cues from the hosts.
      Ellen just got the whole audience on Leah’s side.

      • aquaclara

        That is exactly right. A great moment. Soft ad subtle. But a definite statement.

  • media_lush

    Here’s the Mail’s bit on it:

    ‘I lost friends’: Leah Remini gives first TV interview since leaving Scientology… as Ellen DeGeneres tries to lighten the mood

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2416468/Leah-Remini-gives-TV-interview-leaving-Scientology-chat-queen-Ellen-DeGeneres.html#ixzz2eRrmTZnK
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    • aquaclara

      Thanks for sharing, as always, ML….

  • Xique

    Ellen has this thing for kindness, I love that about her. As we all know, Scientology shows no kindness, ever. Today’s show was perfect for Leah, thanks to Ellen.

    • SandiCorrena

      and Leah was funny!

    • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

      Kindness is down-stat, down-town, probably a manifestation of case or out-valence and is always suspect 😉 If there’s anything Scientology is not about it is kindness. Scientology would only understand kindness if kindness was a dog bite or a bee sting. In other words, kindness is not one of Scientology’s “favorite things.”

      • ThetaBara

        I bet it doesn’t even appear on the tone scale!

  • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

    I’d say it was a very articulate, measured, smart way of saying just what needed to be said and no more. I think Leah and her family are setting a wonderful example of how best to depart from CoS as a family unit. The shunning ex-memembers, part of CoS theology, is a backward and mean-spirited of policy and one CoS continually lies to the public about. The church, when addressing outsides, “wogs” (their term), denies “disconnection” exists, an utterly laughably untrue position for them to take. “Disconnection” as we all know, but for those who may not, is a central precept of the ecclesistical ethical laws of the chruch.

    Thanks for having your say, Leah Remini. Your family, real friends, fans and the film/tv industry are all on your side.

  • Plotinus

    All this twitter talk… I have about 2000 followers, religious oriented discussion (but nothing SCN related). What would be a decent tweet about this subject, that wouldn’t befuddle the non-SCN watchers?

    I was thinking:

    “Nice to see Ellen Degeneres bring up the family disruption and shunning practiced by Scientology during her interview with Leah Remini”

    • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

      Nice to see Leah Remini, on Ellen, standing strong in the face of Scientology’s meanness and backward shunning policy directed at her (check character count).

      • Plotinus

        I like it!!! Thanks!

      • ThetaBara

        That’s great. If there’s room for hashtags, so much the better.

    • Mooser

      “All this twitter talk… I have about 2000 followers,”

      That’s amazing. I can’t even get my dog to follow me.

      • Jo

        I know how you feel, my dog won’t give me the ball back when I throw it, hides it, then laughs at me trying to find it.

      • 1subgenius

        Great line.

      • ThetaBara

        Try sausage.

        • DodoTheLaser

          LOL!

    • Robert Long

      “Proud of #leahremini on Ellen. #Scientology destroys families; glad Leah’s saw what was most important.”

      • Plotinus

        OOOO…. good one. Lurv it! Thanks!

  • DamOTclese2

    That was an excellent, brief coverage. Ellen is always wonderful, they covered the issues before the show, obviously.

  • Vinay Agarwala

    This is a real ethical approach to expose out-ethics of Scientology’s intolerant policy of declaring people suppressive.

    What moral high ground does Scientology have?.

    .

    • DodoTheLaser

      “What moral high ground does Scientology have?”

      The imaginary one.

      • ThetaBara

        “Imaginary high ground… never lets you down…”
        😉

    • Plotinus

      None whatsoever. Never did.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Leah Remini publicly spoke about leaving Scientology. That is a high crime per Hubbard and his scientology ethics and automatically puts Leah in a Suppressive Person category.

    With that said – congratulations Leah, it’s a badge of honor! And no, you are not a suppressive person.

    You are a Special Person. Awesome, kind and wonderful!

    We love you, keep on rocking girl!!!

    • aquaclara

      Great point, Dodo!

  • Jason A. Bleecher

    I think we need to consider Leah’s future as a public figure. I really don’t think she wants to be thought of as the “actress who left Scientology.” She has a career to think about. Now, as Mark says, she has a new life to live. One where she gets to write her own story with the the results of her own choosing. It’s clear she doesn’t want to go on Ellen and use that valuable time to sound off about an intensely disappointing realization she made in her life. If she used her time on Ellen to talk about Scientology, even if she is speaking out against it, they win because she would be expressing her inability to move on.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Well, to counter that point, is Jason Beghe’s career suffering for having opened up and told his entire story in detail?

      • DamOTclese2

        To be fair, Beghe’s career is more stellar and serious than Leah’s ever was or will be.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Don’t know about that… I didn’t know who either of them were before I started $cieno watching… but I’ve been told/have read Jason’s career has blossomed since leaving $cientology. Whether the two are related, I have no idea, but it certainly didn’t kill his career to discuss his experiences and go to bat for its victims, past and future.
          I don’t think anything ‘anti-$cieno’ can kill anyone’s career… well, except possibly TC, but that’s because he’s still IN.

      • Jason A. Bleecher

        Yeah, I sincerely hope and expect that she would come out in a big way of only to be a good role model as a responsible public figure should be. I don’t think and appearance on Ellen is the time or place. The question we, who are following this sinking ship, are asking ourselves is “when?” And I want to know as much as you do.

        • Jason A. Bleecher

          Another point just to support my original post. When I Google Jason Beghe (because I didn’t know who he really was) the first thing it says about him is “Jason Beghe (born March 12, 1960) is an American film and television actor and critic of Scientology.”

        • EnthralledObserver

          Yeah, Ellen was never going to be the ‘tell all’ interview… and it is early days yet… like others I suspect Leah has a plan of some sorts. Whether it be book, interview, let the cult hang themselves… whatever, I just hope it has high impact when it comes.

    • 1subgenius

      Totally agree. Not the time or place, and her just being out there and lovable speaks volumes.
      Plus, Scientology is twisting in the wind, waiting to see when she’ll drop the big one.
      Death by a thousand cuts.

  • piper

    Ellen, you’ve gained my respect for stepping up with this. Leah, you are a shining star, and your light will reach millions. You have done a great service to all!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Too soon?

    • DodoTheLaser

      I can’t fucking wait for a movie to be made. Or TV show. Or both.
      Any better suggestions on who should play COB?

      • MissMoody

        I know he’s older but I think William Dafoe would KILL that role

        • DodoTheLaser

          Actually, I can totally see him doing it. He can be very intense, loony, intelligent and physical – all in one package. Good call, MissMoody.

      • Lunatic Posse

        Warwick Davis

        • DodoTheLaser

          His hair needs some work though.
          Not a bad idea otherwise.

          • Lunatic Posse

            A little HW magic will fix that. Though he may have to wear baggy pants and keep his knees bent a little so he can appear to be shorter.

            • DodoTheLaser

              lol We must call his agent in that case.

            • Lunatic Posse

              I’m sure he could use the money.

        • EnthralledObserver

          LOL… oh, yeah, that’s the one!

      • ThetaBara

        How tall is Christopher Walken?
        He’s certainly sufficiently creepy!

    • EnthralledObserver

      Oh, dear Xenu… just let TC do it!

      • DodoTheLaser

        LOL I didn’t think of that, but hell yeah!

        Just a slight hair color adjustments is all what’s needed.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Every celebrity ex should get in on this project – what better revenge? TC will just do it because he’ll be desperate for a successful project any day now… and deep down he knows COB has been reading and mocking his PC folders with his buddies… so isn’t it about time he got some of his own back.

          • DodoTheLaser

            I entirely agree.

    • sister wendy

      how weird to have your cousin play a role you want…but yes- it looks great;)

      • DodoTheLaser

        Can Daniel Craig pull it off?

  • jeff

    This is pure speculation, but I think since part of her decision to leave was driven by her concern for Mrs. Miscavige, and knowing what she does about their retaliatory practices, she may not wish to bring any further misfortune to rain down upon her friend. Just her presence on DWTS will remind everyone who watches (and will certainly be propagated by the Hollywood PR/gossip machine) that she once was in their clutches and the Shelly angle will echo.

    • ThetaBara

      Good point.

  • DodoTheLaser

    If Leah Remini is in fact working on a tell-all book, I completely understand her not unleashing all kinds of hell.
    Either way, what she said today is very telling in many ways, none of it is good for the evil con of scentology.
    Thank you Leah and Ellen!

  • Shocked Monkey

    She was a bit stressed. She drank from Ellen’s cup.

    • 1subgenius

      She doesn’t look like it but she’s a T cup.

    • Gabbyone

      I thought that it was her way of showing humor when asked if she was OK. She intentionally picked up Ellen’s cup AND even licked it first before she drank. I thought it was incredibly brilliant and revealing. It demonstrated her strength and illustrated how she is somehow able to make light of the darkness that she has to be experiencing. I also think that she did this to show that she does not condone the homophobia of the organization that she left. This was the most revealing and memorable part of the Ellen interview because it was not only visual, but so subtle. I believe that this moment was probably planned ahead because Ellen didn’t react when Leah picked up her cup. You don’t always need words to drive a point home. Absolutely loved that moment. You saw stress, I saw brilliance.

  • DodoTheLaser

    So, last night I checked the FB page of some scientologist I used to work with and saw this:

    Few minutes ago, I checked Kirstie Alley’s Twitter and saw this:

    Is that scientology’s new passive aggressive PR campaign, that supposed to explain/justify DISCONNECTION?

    They got it all wrong, if so. It’s the other way around.

    • DodoTheLaser

      I guess it bothers me because I knew people who got almost declared, who I assured I will never disconnect from them no matter what. And that was when I was deep in. When I got declared, all I heard from them – crickets. Good fucking riddance. Who needs enemies with cowardly “friends” like those.

      Although, I “always leave the door slightly open”. The A-E steps to get in a good graces with me are easy.

    • 1subgenius

      WTF is that comment of her’s supposed to mean?

    • Deeana

      Indicates either she, Kirstie, is the “loyal person” or someone else is.

  • KNMF

    “What do you think? Will this brief exchange have a big effect on Scientology? Give us your thoughts.”

    The Cult has to be careful about protesting the truth too, loudly. When they do that, they draw more reporters, and they create more interest. If they lie loudly, they will promptly be called on it, loudly. The evidence against them will be presented immediately. The knots get tighter the more they struggle. They can’t go around carelessly refuting honest guests on The Ellen Show. They don’t want to make enemies with adored stars like Ellen.

    This is a nightmare for Scientology, because they are helpless. They’re even more paranoid about what is being said among celebs and their friends and the movers and shakers, whom they can’t hear, behind the scenes.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Great post.

      They thought Anonymous were a nightmare.

      Now it’s their own celebrities they have to worry about.

      I suggest it’s a very good time to blow for good.

    • Robert Eckert

      The cult can’t easily respond, at all. Previous coverage of Leah’s exit has been on news shows, where they can send in a Karin Pouw pseudo-statement that gets read quickly at the end, or on websites where maybe they can send out trollish commenters. Here though, there wasn’t an opening for a Karin Pouwgram to get read on Ellen, and the comment-thread at

      http://www.ellentv.com/2013/09/09/leah-remini-on-leaving-scientology/?adid=home-feature-slot-1

      is flooded with hundreds of comments already, things like “As a disfellowshiped Jehovah’s Witness I went through the same thing” and “When someone leaves an organasation like Scientology and they are shunned and the other members arn’t allowed to have contact with them, it’s not a religion, it’s a cult”. They don’t have anybody who will go on any show as a “spokesperson” for Scientology anymore (Karin’s still in the Hole as far as we can tell), so what channel is there for them to reply? Tweets by Kirstie?

  • DodoTheLaser

    666 comments. Hmm…

    Between Iron Maiden’s “666 The Number Of The Beast” and “Run To The Hills”, the winner is –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww

  • Lori Hodgson

    Right On Leah!! We are so proud of you!! Yes! I think what Leah said here will have a huge effect on Scientology! There is lots of folks watching this show and Truth is getting out there now broadly!! Tick Tock!!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Talk about the Sun calling a Diamond Shiny.

  • joan nieman

    Kudos Tony! Always an informative blog. Thank you many times over.

  • Krew13

    OK, only just got round to this. This is fucking magnificent news! The evil policies of the Sciloons has been laid bare on a national talk show watched by millions!! You can’t buy that kind of mass audience access! I bet Miscmidget threw the hissy fit of his life last night! Friends, these are the times, as a pint sized prick once said! These are the times when the chickens come home to roost for the Sciloons!!

    Ellen proudly and openly said she’s a friend of Leah’s. Now, if the Sciloons try to fair game Ellen, they’re gonna be in for the shock of their lives. She is a much loved and respected person in the industry. She has on her side millions of fans, the entire LGBT community, and hundreds of millions in the bank. If they try to fuck with Ellen, they’re gonna be beat down like they won’t believe.

    Ellen – you rock!!!

    • 1subgenius

      I don’t think they’ll fair game Ellen, but I raised the question earlier to be asked of all Scientology celebs, since Ellen is friends with Leah, can they be friends with Ellen.
      It’s going to get interesting, and awkward..

  • JayLester

    I think it’d be unfair to ask Leah to say more or tell-all. As it is, she’s put her life, career, relationships in jeopardy. She risked a lot doing what she did and she said enough for people to get a clue about Scientology. Good for her, she’s so courageous!

  • Nevermore

    On Twitter:

    Leah Remini ‏@LeahRemini
    Thank you all for watching @TheEllenShow and for your support in general! You are a great group of folks! Xoxo

  • Deeana

    What if – Cof$ doesn’t have the kind of money reserves it once had?
    Why hasn’t the boat Freewinds been refurbished or replaced?
    Why are Ideal Org projects YEARS behind schedule for completion?
    Why did the two detectives who were generously paid for 25 years abruptly go unpaid?
    Narconan closed in U.K. U.S. Narconan encountering resistance.
    Upcoming lawsuits
    What if – new membership worldwide is really, really down?
    Israel org is out
    Boston org building was sold – was new location opened?
    What if a whole lot more people than anyone knows or suspects have either left or stopped participating/financially supporting Cof$?
    What if people who are still in Cof$ are wondering more and more about WTF is going on?
    What if DM has become so busy, busy, busy with lawsuits and bad publicity that he is disintegrating much more rapidly than anyone thought he would?
    What if?
    What were the words of the Wicked Witch of The West? “I’m MELTING! I’m MELTING!”

    • TonyOrtega

      Not sure why you’re posting this on yesterday’s story instead of today’s, but here goes.

      “What if Scientology doesn’t have the reserves it once had?” Doubtful. Debbie Cook said it had more than a billion in liquid cash just a little over a year ago.

      “Why hasn’t the Freewinds been refurbished or replaced?” It just went through a major overhaul (overseen by John Brousseau) in just 2008.

      “Why are Ideal Orgs years behind schedule?” Because DM puts that on the locals, which is devious and smart.

      “Why did Marrick and Arnold suddenly stop getting paid?” Most likely because Rathbun had let the cat out of the bag about their operation (without naming them) in the “Truth Rundown” series in the SP Times.

      Worldwide membership is down. It was a mission in Israel that left, not an org. The Boston building was long for sale after another building had been bought.

      Miscavige is trying to get more and more money from fewer and fewer people, and that’s why the problems are beginning to escalate. But he still has many whales who will turn over lots of money, and he had a huge war chest to begin with. Signs of panic are emerging, but not the ones you’ve pointed out here. For the best evidence that Miscavige is losing his grip, keep an eye on what Mike Rinder has been posting at his blog.

      • DeElizabethan

        Thanks tony, telling it as it is!

  • Kim

    The effect that I have noticed in the entertainment news from this brief exchange are countless headlines and stories about how Leah’s former friends still in scientology cannot communicate with her. This seems to be a big issue for many of the items I have read. Disconnection makes a lot of people angry and uncomfortable – it is a big shining light on the control mechanisms of the cult. Not a bad result from a not quite two minute exchange.

  • mook

    Kirstie the Hutt responded to Leah’s subtle diss of her, by retweeting some quotes by Kathy Ireland (who I don’t think is a CoS member). Kirstie still has her head in the sand..
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/leah-remini-has-left-scientology.112258/page-33#post-2355566

  • Jgg2012

    Kirstie’s latest:
    “Never push a loyal person to the point they no longer can be loyal. Ouch. True”

  • cdub

    Yes these few words on Ellen’s show are a big deal. People feel like they know her personally through the King of Queens tv show and so she can communicate volumes with just a few words and gestures. Then Ellen is very understanding and the entire viewing public immediately feels like they are Leah’s friends via Ellen’s comment about being her friend too. It’s very sympathetic to a person we feel close to who is experiencing something traumatic.