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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Leah Remini’s Friend, TV’s Michelle Visage, Says Scientologists Are “Scattering Like Roaches”

Michelle_VisageTwo years ago, Michelle Visage was a longtime talk radio host in Los Angeles when she was presented with a tantalizing opportunity. RuPaul wanted her to be a judge on the third season of his VH1 show, RuPaul’s Drag Race.

Visage says she knew it would be great for her career. But she worried that her bosses at CBS Radio, who were conservative and uptight, might have a problem with her asking for permission to do that kind of show. She agonized over the idea of even bringing it up.

“I don’t want to hear it. Do it, or I’m going to call the president of CBS Radio myself,” Michelle’s friend Leah Remini told her.

“So I called and made it happen,” Michelle says. “If it weren’t for Leah, I may not have had the balls to get this job. She does this stuff. She offers to call the presient of CBS Radio. That’s what a friend is.”

But now, Michelle says, Leah’s really learning something about her friends.

“Leah has been one of my best friends since 2002,” Michelle says — it was Sinbad, the comedian, who introduced them. “I’m seeing people who called on her and needed her over the years, and all of a sudden people forget the meaning of friendship. It disgusts me, actually.”

Once we broke the news on July 8 that Leah was leaving the Church of Scientology, Remini soon learned that Scientologists were being told to cut her out of their lives.

“The shit has hit the fan and everyone is scattering like roaches. Only her real friends are left,” Michelle says.

Michelle herself spent some time in the church.

“I took some low-level, four or five courses. Leah never forced it on me. And when the heavy sales pitch came on, I was out,” she says. “I’m the sole breadwinner in our family, and I don’t need to hear that Jenna Elfman used a friend’s credit card so she could go Clear. I can’t do that.”

Jenna Elfman? Michelle says that’s the story she was told by the church official pressuring her to put a large payment on her credit card. When she balked, the official told her that Elfman had used a friend’s card to pay for services, with the implication that it paid off for Elfman in the end. Michelle turned her down.

Leah didn’t complain when she gave it up, Michelle says. “That’s what I like about her. She said make up your own mind, and I did. And she said that she’d love me no matter what.

“She’s rescued so many people. When I moved back to Los Angeles, she was there helping me unload boxes for eight or nine hours,” she says. “Now, when times are tough, nobody’s there for her? That’s bullshit. I can’t believe you wouldn’t choose friendship over religion. I’m disgusted and outraged.”

Things have gotten ugly, fast. One of Remini’s friends is X Factor singer Stacy Francis, who went after Leah’s sister Nicole for speaking out publicly this week. RadarOnline recorded some tweets Francis put up before taking them down:

“People are so shady!! Say it if you got the nerve! Say it! don’t be cryptic!! Get the balls to say it to me! AND!ONLY IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!…DON’T BE A SHIT STARTER @nicoleremini YOU BETTER NOT BE TWEETIN ABOUT ME! Oh and nice you are friends again with your OWN SISTER Don’t do it…DEAR SELF>>>>>>GO TO BED! Dealing with bulimic crazy people won’t help you tonight.”

Michelle points out to us what a low blow that final statement was.

Michelle says that Leah is being dropped by friends she’d known for more than 20 years. Once the church instructed people to “disconnect” from Remini and her family for defecting, they have done so, overnight.

“Not one person has stood up to say, ‘No, I’m not going to abandon my friend.’ That’s amazing to me,” Michelle says.

“The Remini family gave Scientology millions of dollars, and for her to be treated this way is incredible.”

We asked her how Remini is holding up.

“She’s trying to be as strong as she can. ‘Sad’ is the best term. It hurts. All of these people she thought were her friends are scattering. It’s like roaches, I’m not kidding. And it’s very difficult for her. Under the tough chick there’s a human being.”

Will Leah say something publicly?

“I honestly don’t know,” Michelle says. “I just hope the people who truly do love her will come to their senses.”

 
——————–

Ray Jeffrey

Ray Jeffrey

Scientology Calls Ray Jeffrey’s Letter about Brian Culkin “Bombastic”

On Monday, we told you that Brian Culkin had hired attorney Ray Jeffrey in the Luis and Rocio Garcia federal fraud lawsuit against the Church of Scientology. The church had claimed that Culkin, a former church member, was too afraid to attend an evidentiary hearing in the case once the readers of this blog (and others) found out that he’d submitted a declaration that the church used to try to get the attorneys for the Garcias disqualified. But Culkin put that assertion by the church into serious doubt by hiring Jeffrey — who is well known for litigating against Scientology — and had Jeffrey write a letter that blasted the church’s attorneys for the way Culkin was treated. Culkin said he was assured his declaration would only be used internally by the church, and he said he wasn’t, in fact, afraid to attend a hearing or deposition.

Now the church has come back, filing a motion that calls Jeffrey’s letter “bombastic,” and attaching e-mails that the church says show Culkin isn’t being truthful. Culkin was aware that his declaration would be used in the Garcia case, the church says. To support that, it attaches an email dated May 8 from the church’s Sarah Heller to Culkin: “Per our agreement, I’m letting you know that we will be filing your declaration in the Garcia case in the near future.”

The next day, Culkin replied: “If you file that I would probably bet money the defense team is going to call me as a witness. Just to let you know. OK then. I am not entirely happy but its your choice.”

It’s hard to tell from the church filing if either of the e-mails are complete. And even if (once again) Culkin’s credibility has come under question, this new filing doesn’t seem to contradict the thrust of Ray Jeffrey’s letter — that Culkin is willing to testify and is unafraid to do so.

We called Jeffrey and asked for his comment about the filing.

“The church is twisting the facts and selectively using tidbits of information that we’re not going to respond to because we have confidentiality obligations,” Jeffrey says.

We also asked Scott Pilutik for his thoughts on this newest filing.

As I hinted at a few days ago, Culkin has a credibility problem, and that’s now coming into sharper focus with Scientology producing e-mails which appear to contradict the narrative suggested by Ray Jeffrey.

The e-mails may not tell us everything (perhaps Culkin has further correspondence giving a clearer picture?), but they do undermine the notion that Culkin was unaware of the purpose of the Declaration and how Scientology planned to use it.

Indeed, Sarah Heller’s May 8 e-mail to Culkin refers to an agreement between the two parties whereby Scientology would be permitted to file the Declaration in the Garcias’ lawsuit.

If he had reached an agreement with Scientology by which the Declaration was considered “for internal use,” why didn’t he contend as much in his May 9 response to Heller, in which he even expresses the acute-enough understanding that he might be called upon to testify further?

Of course, the person whose credibility Scientology is now trying to undermine is the same person Scientology is relying on as the basis for its disqualification motion. If you’re alone in a boat, common sense dictates that shooting it full of holes will ultimately have adverse consequences.

 
We hope Judge James Whittemore brings some sanity to this squabble soon.

 
——————–

Victoria Britton on the Radio

Today at 3 pm Victoria Britton will be talking about the 2007 death of her son, Kyle Brennan, on God Discussion Radio: go here for more details.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 20, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • DodoTheLaser

    “Scientologists Are “Scattering Like Roaches”

    I wonder why. Oh, that’s why:

    [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2zdxct4.jpg[/IMG]

    • Jon Hendry

      Jenna looks like one of the vampires from Buffy.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Don’t say that. She’s going to hunt us both down and eat our crimes.

    • Sunny Sands

      I thought this was a shoop the first time I saw it, but nope, it’s real.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I wonder if she had to go to ethics after that picture was taken.
      Is it legal to bite the great OT?

    • Lark Smith

      Maybe this is what Krustie was referring to: Better yet don’t read (books)- good Hubtards eat them. Those wacky Lyingtologists.

    • 1subgenius

      That girl is hungry.

    • Ciru

      Gives a new meaning to “eat shit”.

  • 1subgenius

    I can send an email confirming a lot of agreements that never happened.
    Also, its less than clear what the agreement, if any, related to.
    I continue to believe that Culkin’s testimony will be devasting to the cult, both on the issue of the disqualification, and on the issue of refunds.

    • Captain Howdy

      From Culkin’s comment to us back when the shit hit the fan:

      “People who know me, know fully well where I stand on this issue. There is nothing in that declaration that was secret in any way, shape, or form”.

      Thanks to BTN for digging that up..and I rest my case.

      • FLUNK_101

        You don’t know him, and you have no idea what he went through as a Scientologist.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        You are welcome!

        • Captain Howdy

          Brain Culkin speak with forked tongue. I give him new tribal name..”Dances Like Weasels”.

          • FLUNK_101

            You can hate him all you want, Howdy. I know you will anyway.
            Still, he’s doing more to hurt the church than you could ever dream of.

            • InterestedObserver12

              Regardless what anyone thinks of Culkin, for those of us who will weep for joy when the cult is found guilty of fraud and forced to actually pay refunds when they are requested, he is absolutely devastating to the cult’s case.

            • FLUNK_101

              Refunds rock!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Please explain to me how Brian Culkin is devastating to “the Churches case”?
              I see his involvement in this case as a red herring. I want the Church to be found guilty of fraud and forced to pay refunds too, but what on earth is devastating to the Churches case about Brian Culkin’s involvement so far?
              I am really unclear of what he is providing besides a slightly amusing and unnecessary sideshow.
              He could have been devastating to the Garcia’s case….But how to the Church?
              Really….I would like you to help me understand this???

            • AnyOldName1

              Caulkin undermines the kverch’s credibility. They put a lot of their eggs in that basket (refunds & disqualify the opposing attorneys). Not sure it is “devastating” but it’s a good gut punch.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yeah, I guess when you put it that way….he was all they had!
              Derp!

            • John P.

              OK, let’s back up a ways. What’s before the Court right now is a motion to disqualify the Garcia’s attorneys on the basis of their relationship with an attorney who represented the cult in legal matters well over a decade ago.

              To claim that that attorney has a conflict of interest because they may have had access to confidential information from representing the cult in unrelated matters 10-15 years ago, on its face, is almost laughably far beyond the standards used to evaluate conflict of interest. If the Garcia’s hired a lawyer who represented the cult in fighting a refund lawsuit only six months ago, that is well within the standard for conflict of interest, and little to no evidence would need to be provided for such a motion to be granted.

              Thus, the only chance for the cult to succeed in its motion to disqualify the Garcia’s attorneys is with rock solid actual evidence that the attorney who represented the cult so long ago specifically said or did things that would violate other standards of conflicts of interest, and that he shared that information with Mr. Babbitt and the rest of the Garcia legal team. Culkin’s declaration appeared, on the surface, to be evidence supporting a conflict of interest finding. But a declaration is simply a signed statement. It is not evidence, but was apparently intended to be used to establish a significant controversy and get the court to the current point: a scheduled hearing (almost a mini-trial) to present the evidence. At that point, the court presumably would have ordered Culkin to testify, either in a deposition, or in person in the court. The later filing that our little community of commenters had so terrified Culking that he was afraid to leave the house was a (fairly flimsy, IMO) attempt to up the pressure on the court to grant the disqualification motion by preventing Culkin from being cross-examined.

              But when Culkin fought back and said that the cult is lying, it immediately puts the cult’s lawyers on notice that he’s a loose cannon whose testimony probably will not help their case. Other inconsistencies in Culkin’s other statements when contrasted with the letter from Ray Jeffery would suggest he’s not going to directly help the Garcia’s case either. But that’s OK — from the Garcia’s point of view, all they need is for him not to testify, or for him to get shredded on the stand and have the judge decide his testimony is worthless. And once he gets shredded on the stand, with plenty of documents to indicate beforehand that his testimony is not credible, a judge like Whitmire would not only reject the motion to disqualify counsel but will likely hold this giant charade against the cult and he could then begin sanctioning the cult’s legal team, making it harder for them to mount a defense. Remember how the judge in the Narconon Georgia “Desmond” (working from memory, so I could have that wrong) case was so pissed off that she took the unusual step of essentially tossing out the cult’s entire defense because of their repeated abuses of the legal processes? Something like that could happen as the “reward” for this abuse of the process, increasing the odds that the Garcias would prevail.

              Losing the motion to disqualify counsel does not, of course, mean that the Garcia’s automatically win and that all the other plaintiffs waiting in the wings are more likely to collect when they file suits. There’s still a long fight ahead. But losing the motion to disqualify the Garcia’s counsel, especially in such an inept manner as having your star witness call you a liar before testifying, will cause the judge in this case (and in any future cases) to be very aggressive about squashing attempts to distract the court from trying the real issues. In other words, it backfires on the cult and makes it harder for them to win. The Garcias apparently have enough money that they will not be inclined to settle unless they get significant money over and above their contributions. So filing this motion ends up costing the cult a lot more money and increases the odds that they lose. To that end, l’affaire Culkin is indeed “devastating to the cult’s case.”

            • pronoia

              Really really good points. It is also worth mentioning — that the effort to separate and attorney from his/her client is very unusual and is not something which should ever be done lightly as it trods on an important right, which is that of a citizen to be represented by counsel. To try to derail a legal action by attempting to deprive plaintiffs of their attorneys is serious serous shit and is not something which no attorney in their right mind would try on as some kind of a spaghetti-throwing whim. Which supports the notion that this whole lark is guaranteed to have been conceived and ordered executed by Miscavige.

            • InterestedObserver12

              The way I see it, and I think the judge will, too, is:
              1. The cult tells the court Here’s proof that we give refunds
              2. Then the cult tells the court, Our proof is unable to testify because he is being threatened, but we have this declaration he signed
              3. Culkin, the proof the cult itself proffered to the court, hires Jeffries, who informs the judge that the cult is lying – Jeffries is ready to testify
              4. If the court hears Culkin’s testimony, Jeffries will make it clear that the cult used him in an attempt to deceive the court
              5. If the court does not hear his testimony, the cult is left with no proof that it actually gives refunds, as it is required to do under the terms of it’s charitable status with the IRS.

            • Robert Eckert

              He’s not actually being offered as a witness to prove “we give refunds” but to prove “they are wrongly using an attorney who has inside information that he ought keep confidential”.

            • InterestedObserver12

              I think you’re mistaken on that point, Robert. I believe the attorney disqualification is a separate issue. Am I wrong?

            • InterestedObserver12

              I thought I already posted this, BTN, but for some reason I can’t find it.

              1. The cult told the court, We have proof that we give refunds
              2. The the cult tells the court, Our proof is afraid to testify, but we have this declaration he signed
              3. The proof, Culkin, hires Jeffries, who informs the court the cult is lying: Culkin is willing to testify
              4. If Culkin testify’s Jeffries will tailor his questions to make it clear the cult manipulated Culkin in an effort to deceive the court
              5. If the cult withdraws its request for Culkin to participated, they are left with no proof they give refunds, as they are required to do per their charitable status from the IRS.

              Either way, the cult is left naked.

            • 1subgenius

              Add the substance of his one hour interview with Mark Bunker on the abusive practices of the cult.

          • Captain Howdy

            Why do “people” continue to try to communicate with you when you’ve made it abundantly clear that you want nothing to do with them?

            • FLUNK_101

              Gee, I don’t know … do you blog about the same topic? On the same blog?
              There is a such thing as freedom of speech, you know.
              For example, I once asked “someone” to stop saying nasty things about me, but he kept right on doing it.
              Go figure.

            • FLUNK_101

              Gee, I don’t know … do you blog about the same topic? On the same blog?
              There is a such thing as freedom of speech, you know.
              For example, I once asked “someone” to stop saying nasty things about me, but he kept right on doing it.
              Go figure.

            • Captain Howdy

              “Go away kid..ya bother me”

            • FLUNK_101

              The down-vote is not mine.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            The guy seriously can’t pull it together and get his stories straight. I think Tik has been pretty much dead on in his assessment on the guy from the beginning.
            Brian and credibility are mutually exclusive.

            • 1subgenius

              Everyone lies.
              Ask someone if they ever lie. If they say no, they’re lying.
              So someone who admits they lie is more credible than someone who claims they don’t.
              A paradox.

            • stanrogers

              I never lie. I may exaggerate, equivocate, prevaricate or circumlocute. I try to avoid hurting feelings, especially my own. I compose. I create thoughts. I tell stories that may never have happened. Occasionally I may make statements that in hindsight prove no longer to be operative. But lie? Never!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              Are you sure you’re not still in? Just the term prevaricate means lie. :D

            • stanrogers

              Not actually, but that is the way most people read it. It’s something a little more subtle when taken strictly (which usually involves word play to get to a “strict interpetation of the question” allowing you to answer a different question than the one that was asked). But then again, I may have been telling a story that may never have happened — for illustrative purposes, you understand.

            • Missionary Kid

              I do understand. What Co$ does with words is, by redefining them and only accepting very specific definitions that they have given, make it possible to really bring the truth of 1984 into play. It’s flat out sophistry.

              In the Naval services, the term is Sea Lawyer. A sea lawyer takes whatever is the most favorable interpretation of a term or order, and uses it to make his case to sleaze out of doing something. He disregards the most commonly interpretation and lays claim to it, no matter how out of context it is, or illogical.

              An example of how my son would try to use it: My oldest son would be sitting next to his brother, and he would put his elbow against his brother, then hit the fist of that arm, jabbing his elbow into his brother. I’d say, “Stop hitting your brother.” He would answer that he didn’t hit his brother. Technically he didn’t. He hit his own fist, which caused his elbow to jab into his brother.

              In the Navy and Marines, if one plays sea lawyer, they quickly find themselves in deep shit. The same happened to my sons in my house. Homey don’t like sophistry, and neither do judges.

            • 1subgenius

              I see what you did there.

            • Valerie Ross

              LRH? You did come back! Glad you chose the right side this time.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              “Brian and credibility are mutually exclusive.” — Yep.

              The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Hopefully Culkin will prove himself useful and then go back to kissing his own ass.

    • shasha40

      Agreed ! Judge : Where are the depositions of all those that received a refund through your arbitration?
      Scions : Well, we only had one… but he’s a Liar and his lawyer’s Bombastic ! * laughter breaks out in the courtroom*
      Judge: Order in the court ! Next issue, ’cause this one’s non- existent ! Give Everyone their money back!

      • MissCandle

        Did you mean?:
        Judge: Odor in the court!

    • t1kk

      If you confirm an agreement that never happened and I follow up with an e-mail response that doesn’t refute your assertion, my silence on that front tends to tacitly confirm the existence of an agreement. As to what Heller refers to by “agreement,” the most reasonable interpretation is that Culkin was informed that the declaration might be filed (in exchange for his receiving his full refund); perhaps the agreement included his being informed prior to their doing so, else Heller’s e-mail was just a courtesy. It’s not reasonable to infer, though, that Scientology required Culkin’s further approval, else Heller would’ve requested as much in her 5/8 e-mail.

      I don’t understand why you’d asume Culkin would ever testify on the issue of refunds; both sides now have a motive to discredit Culkin for his various conflicting assertions. To the extent Culkin has anything useful to say on behalf of either party, that usefulness is mooted by his lack of credibility. Babbitt likely realizes this (and he’d be the one to question Culkin as to refunds), and Scientology likely does too, but perhaps at some point this became, or becomes, less about Scientology going after the Garcias (they can wait) than Scientology going after Culkin for burning them.

      • John P.

        In a rational court proceeding, Brian Culkin’s testimony would be as toxic as plutonium-laced asbestos, and it would never happen, exactly as you say. I tend to agree with you that it is unlikely that Culkin would actually testify because of the massive credibility problems that have been revealed. I suspect that some readers have over-read the battle over what Culkin might say into thinking that the battle is so pitched because his testimony is imminent.

        However, given that Miscavige has a history of ordering his legal team to do things that satisfy him emotionally even if they actively hurt his ability to win cases, it wouldn’t surprise me if he overrode his counsel’s advice and deposed Culkin in order to either run up the bill on the Garcias or for some other reason. Remember, this is the guy who ordered San Antonio’s oldest, most white shoe law firm, to attempt to muzzle Ray Jeffery and prevent them from making an opening statement — something that I’m sure the judge in the case had never heard of either. And this is the guy who demanded counsel file motions to disqualify Rathbun and Rinder from involvement in multiple cases, despite the minor detail that they’re not attorneys. Both are laughable misunderstandings about the reality of courtroom procedure, and (unless the attorneys are all untreated schizophrenics) were unlikely to have originated with the legal team.

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          That’s an insult to untreated schizophrenics :-P.

          It is transparently obvious that Miscavige is running the whole thing.

      • 1subgenius

        1. Do we know he didn’t respond? I couldn’t find the attachments to Scientology’s pleading, so I’m at a loss there.

        2. There are other interpretations possible than the most reasonable, or likely. I’m not assuming anything about the alleged agreement. I’m not convinced there was one, even by the tacit ratification you suggest.

        3. Which conflicting assertions are you referring to? I still don’t see that his credibility is so damaged that his testimony is totally useless. I may have missed something and I don’t expect you to put in any time or effort in bringing me up to speed. All I know about is statements by him here and elsewhere about his intentions. I still have not seen (recall seeing) any contradiction in his recitation of the pertinent facts, between the declaration and extraneous statements.

        4. The trier of fact of course will assess credibility and may find that, while it is suspect, or even that some of what he says is untrue, some of it is true. Especially if it is corroborated by, or consistent with other testimony, which it certainly will be.

        Of course my thoughts are based on the facts as I understand them to date.

        And again, I don’t expect you to spend any effort in educating me, unless you feel that is necessary.

        As an aside I feel that “this” is not about whether Scientology is going after Culkin or the Garcias (as much as Scientology would like it to be), but about the Garcias going after Scientology.

        Even in my admitted ignorance of all the facts to this point in time, I am willing to bet a dozen donuts (I have a great donut shop next door) to a dollar that Babbitt will call Culkin as a witness, and that his testimony will include his entire experience in and with Scientology, including the refund process. More likely Scientology will settle if the taking of his testimony appears to be a certainty, or after it is actually taken. Same bet there if you want it.

        • t1kk

          Just taking number 1, Tony links to the exhbit above, which is Culkin’s 5/9 response to Heller’s 5/8 e-mail, which reads as follows:

          “If you file that I would probably bet money the defense team is going to call me as a witness.
          Just to let you know.
          OK- then. I am not entirely happy but its your choice.”

          • 1subgenius

            I don’t see it an an unequivocal confirmation of an agreement that his declaration would, or could be used in court.
            I do think he’s right when he says the defense will call him.

            • t1kk

              Well, it’s confirmation of the existence of the agreement, which was the point of yours I was addressing before you moved the goalposts just now. Regardless, it was at this point that a reasonable person whose agreement with Scientology stipulated that it would be for “internal use only” would naturally interject something along the lines of, “Hey, our agreement was that this declaration would be for internal use only. You can’t file that.” as opposed to, “I am not entirely happy but its your choice.”

              As to Culkin’s credibility problem, I’m not going to create a laundry list, but it started with the declaration itself, where he offered up falsifiable assertions that Johnson then refuted by reference to telephone logs and e-mails (yes, I know it hasn’t been determined who’s version is more accurate, but I’ll go with Johnson here). The declaration also contains instances of overreaching characterizations by Scientology (since they wrote it) that it seemed obvious Culkin wouldn’t be able to back up. I question whether he even read the entire thing. And realize too that his assertions are already naturally suspect in light of the fact that he received money for his declaration; his credibility was already going to be judged against his financial incentive to satisfy Scientology’s demands. That’s not to say his financial incentive renders him not credible, only that he’s going to be graded on a tougher curve.

              And now that he no longer wants to cooperate with Scientology and has retained Ray Jeffrey, his credibility problem worsens because Jeffrey’s account on Culkin’s behalf fails to jibe with the e-mails offered up by Scientology. The standard for credibility isn’t whether someone is or isn’t committing perjury. It’s not a legal finding at all, just a factor that either weighs for or against a witness’s believability. And at this point I think it’s fair to not believe much of what Brian Culkin has to say.

            • 1subgenius

              So you’re on for the donuts?

            • t1kk

              That Babbitt won’t call Culkin as a witness with respect to refunds? Sure.

            • 1subgenius

              No need for me to respond. Offer/acceptance, right?
              These are damn fine donuts, too. I’m sure you’ll enjoy them.
              The only ones I’ll eat are the old fashioned. Just like Mom made on a rare occasion.

            • t1kk

              Yeah, it was binding when I said sure. I may not have have comparably good donuts here (and asking me to wait on line in soho for cronuts (google it) is unreasonable), but I’ll find something. Bagels don’t travel well or I’d offer those.

            • 1subgenius

              Re-read our contract.
              In the unlikely event you lose, you only owe me a buck.

            • t1kk

              Clearly then you lacked adequate representation. I’ll pay the equivalent, else risk the contract being found unconscionable.

            • 1subgenius

              I was giving you odds and making a twisted reference to “dollars to donuts.”

              Bet’s still on as stated.

            • 1subgenius

              I certainly regret that you feel I moved the goalposts.
              No need for an autopsy on this horse.

  • FLUNK_101

    Leah is cool. I’m liking her more and more. I admire her for her strong family ties. She’s got a lot of love in her, and she kicks ass.

    I am impressed that Leah did not try force her friends into Scientology. That’s the coolest kind of Scientologist there is … I know, because that’s the way I was when I was “in.”

    “Under the tough chick there’s a human being.”

    I heard that! Don’t let the haters get you down, Leah.

    BTW, I never liked Jenna Elfman. I always thought she was completely lame, as an actress and as a human being. She always struck me as a selfish, stupid woman who is incapable seeing past her own nose. Kirstie Alley, too. These are the jerks that make Scientology a “religion for narcissists.”

    • Peter

      She has managed to keep herself above the fray, saying nothing quotable about the czerch for them to use against her. She’s not only New York gutsy, she’s also bright.

      Meanwhile, Miscavige has shifted to howitzers aimed at the gunwales…and his feet. I’m really quite amazed at the depths of his thoughtless and painful stupidity. He reminds me a bit of some of the more destructive “ceasars” of Rome, pouring fuel on an already blazing inferno.

      This story, thanks to the scio hamhanded handling – kind of rolls off the tongue – of the czerch is likely to turn into a long running story, quoted by reporters and writers for a long time to come.

      • FLUNK_101

        Yeah, she’s cool. Leah may still believe in Scientology, but so did I at one time, and so did a lot of other good people. Of all the cults, Scientology was known for attracting people with above-average IQ’s.

        • Anonymookme

          I’ll have to take your word that “Scientology was known for attracting people with above-average IQ’s”, but I hope you’re not including Brian Culkin in that rather broad statement. Or John Travolta. Or Tom Cruise. Or Jenna Elfman. Or Kristie Alley.
          From my seat on the bleachers, those I mentioned would not be found at a Mensa meeting.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            They would however, probably make the Mensa meeting less dull….

            • FLUNK_101

              I had an open invitation to join Mensa before from before I finished high school.

            • Zana

              The people I met in Mensa were all boring. Walking heads. They just happened to all be engineers… who are a breed unto themselves…. maybe that was it. I just got tired of everyone presenting how smart they were to everyone else. Where was the oomph! to go LIVE life and make things happen. So I quit.

          • FLUNK_101

            What about people like William Boroughs, Christopher Reeves, Jerry Seinfeld, Greta Van Susteren, Van Morrison, Jim Carey … or Skippress? They were all Scientologists at one time or another.

            • MissCandle

              Which only serves to prove the point made about IQ, i.e., they’re not S-Lying-Tologists anymore.

            • FLUNK_101

              Neither am I.

            • phronsie

              Dude, I thought she was pretty smart until I heard she was a scientologist, then I was shocked & appalled. Has to mean her whacky flake quotient trumps all…poor thing.

            • FLUNK_101

              If and when I see her on TV, it’s the only thing I think about.
              It’s like I’m adding on, (to the end of her sentences), “and I believe in body thetans.”

            • sugarplumfairy

              She’s a scientologist because her husband is in.. And he is only in because he’s Making money furthering the traditional scientology business scams that take advantage of people who he considers smaller beings..

            • pronoia

              “that take advantage of people he considers smaller beings.” Now that is funny — because one of the people he tried to make a lot of money out of was Sarah Palin! And maybe he did because I don’t know how it all turned out in the end.

            • Robert Eckert

              Except for Greta and Skip, they all looked at it and quickly decided it was a load of hogwash.

            • FLUNK_101

              I laughed but I don’t know why. It just seemed funny that the two people you singled out were Greta … and Skip.
              You’re absofrkinglutely right about those peeps getting in and out relatively pronto … though I think Reeves had hundreds of hours of auditing … but still, it was great how he proved to himself that it was bullshit, by reciting mythology and having the auditor accept it.

            • Zana

              Wow! I’d love to hear that story!

            • Robert Eckert
            • Missionary Kid

              Christopher Reeves take on the e-meter was a classic. The auditor didn’t have a clue he was being put on. The meter didn’t detect shit.

            • sugarplumfairy

              And most of them identified it for the scam it is or are still making money off the scam..

              Quit subtly disseminating scientology..

            • FLUNK_101

              Do you really think I’m disseminating Scientology??? Like, hey everybody, get into Scientology! Go into the org, read a book, take a course, and believe everything!!! Even though none of it is true!!! Do it!!! And tell them all your secrets! And spend all your money! Even though it’s total bs!!! YAY!!!

              I’m busted! You’re right! Get into Scientology everybody!

            • Missionary Kid

              Flunk, it almost seems as if you are repeating the Co$ line because you make no qualifying statements about their length of stay or whether they ever called themselves $cions, or were revolted by what they saw.

              Co$ calls people $cientologists if they took a few classes if they want to associate a high profile name with themself.

              That’s why it seems like you’re disseminating.

            • GlibWog

              I felt that way also Kid.. Taking a Personality test , snooping around in it for awhile doesn’t make one a Scientologist anymore than eating a salad makes one a Vegetarian.

            • FLUNK_101

              I’m talking about people who were taking courses or getting audited in the org.

            • FLUNK_101

              No, I’m not disseminating. How could you think that? You are overreacting
              Most of the people I mentioned left Scientology and don’t want to be associated with it. That’s completely understandable, isn’t it?
              And I said they were Scientologists “at one time or another.” That tells the whole story, doesn’t it?

            • Missionary Kid

              Flunk, you didn’t say, “Most of the people I mentioned left Scientology and don’t want to be associated with it.” Leaving that off makes you sound like a shill for $cientology.

              All you did was name off famous people who had been associated with $cientology. You said noting about their negative attitude towards it.

              It is not completely understandable if you don’t say it. We are not mind readers. We only read what is on the screen.

            • FLUNK_101

              “at one time or another” means they’re no longer scientologists. period. end. of. story.

            • Missionary Kid

              You didn’t say anything that was untrue, but you had a big omission.

              I know you’re going to disagree, but “at one time or another” says nothing about what their ultimate conclusion was about the cult.

              My opinion is that you lack the ability to conceive of any viewpoint but your own, or that others may understand something that you have written in a different way, because that is the way that you intended. My opinion is that you also assume that when you assume that what someone else has written is hostile, you brook no other opinions.

              IMO, either you are showing signs of the characteristics of the myopia that was a result of being in the cult, or you were like that before you went in.

              I don’t think you even realize what an arrogant asshole (that’s my opinion again) you come across as.

            • FLUNK_101

              “you lack the ability to conceive of any viewpoint but your own”

              With all due respect, you are describing yourself perfectly without realizing it.

              When you misinterpreted what I said, I corrected you, as any same person would do.
              Yet you stubbornly cling to your original misconception.
              Who’s being myopic?

              You’re telling me something about the way you think I am! And you’re wrong. I have right to set the record straight.

              I know what I said, MK, and it’s so obvious you misinterpreted what I said!

              “what an asshole”

              Nice talking to you, MK!

            • Missionary Kid

              Same here.

            • cicely neville

              Now wait a minute. Do you mean all were members? I read Reeves’ book; he never joined,he just had auditing a couple of times and invented a “WholeTrack” because he saw it was a scam. I believe Seinfeld also just took a course and left. I don’t see how that makes them members, except in the very special Sciloon sense.

              My kid put a ticket to see ‘Dianetics’ in my Christmas stocking – I guess in their book that would make me one, if they could find me – (picture OSA shadowing Rudolph …)

            • FLUNK_101

              Don’t be silly. The folks I mentioned did more than read a book or “took just a course.”

            • cicely neville

              I no longer have Reeves’ book so can’t give the exact quote. However I think it’s on line.
              Scientology did not have the bad name it does now, so he was under no pressure to distance himself. He simply saw through it eventually , which suggests he was never committed. It takes commitment to and adoption of a group’s ideology to be a member of anything; those things take time. IMHO a member would be someone who had not just taken courses but is completely committed to CoS and shows it in his thinking and behavior; so saying “At least for that split-second of time” is puzzling to me and not in accordance with what I would consider membership. It would depend, wouldn’t it, on whether the individuals felt committed and acted accordingly, whatever activities they may have taken part in.

              I was going to vote for McCain in 2000, but that in no way makes me a Republican. I’ve seen Jewish relatives at a funeral mass take communion, but they’d be very offended if it was stated that that made them christians, even for a split second.

              I do hope you told me not to be silly with a smile on your face. I am rather proud of my silliness tech, and reserve the right to use it as any time. Silliness is what we do at the Bunker; you get some real high-grade material here.

          • Missionary Kid

            You’re talking about the members of my organization: Densa, the organization for those of us not quite as bright.

          • Zana

            I was attracted and I was in Mensa. However… I backed away when they tried to trick me into paying $45,000 for L-11. (Hah!) And then when Katie left I started reading ALL the books I could find written by the amazing people who had escaped. (I did it on a Kindle so that nobody could see what I was reading.) Anyway…the lure of becoming all I can be and having something solve all my human “problems” so that I could live “clear” and “cause over MEST” and with “certainty” was very seductive. I was attracted at a very unstable time in my life – emotionally and financially. I didn’t have to deal much with the orgs themselves. I over-paid for what I got, however, it was worth it to help me stabilize after some tragedy hit.

            Since I’ve left I’m HAPPY. Learning to create my own life in my own way. Feels like a big anchor has been cut from me. Discovering Bruce Lipton, Quantum Physics, Human Design, Osho and all kinds of other things that support individuality. Not slavery.

            • Missionary Kid

              See my statement about E.Q. $ciontology takes advantage of people who, at a particular time and place have a low emotional quotient.

            • Zana

              Yes. I was right at the bottom. Going down the tubes. Needed some kind of help. Hmmmm… I can’t even count how much I spent on all of this. Has to be somewhere around $100,000 when you include the auditing, Freewinds, All the tapes, 2 emeters, all the books, books to the Indians, IAS crap, yaddah yaddah. It’s laughable. Time to move on. :-)

            • Missionary Kid

              It sounds as if you have moved on.

              I can sense that you’ve discovered the joy of learning in the non-Hubbardian world that is real and complex and always containing new revelations that aren’t just rehashes of one con man’s imagination. You’re free of the hamster wheel!

            • HeatherGraceful

              Good for you, Zana. You’ve made great progress (judging by your reading of Lipton, at least) since leaving. How long were you “in” for?

            • Zana

              I was there for about 10 years. Never in the SO. Just taking classes and auditing up through Grade IV. Started broke, needed some time to create a business and make some money. Was able to get back on my feet financially and the auditing helped diffuse some big emotional log-jams that were tied to the death of my younger brother.

          • FistOfXenu

            People like the Headleys seem pretty smart to me. And Jon Atack? And some of the other critics? And a guy I know that joined, a chemist in 1 of the big pharma companies. I haven’t seen any thing that convinces me we aren’t wasting time talking about the intelligence of members.

            • Anonymookme

              Ok, there is some anecdotal evidence that some Sciloons are genius.
              I was responding to the claim that the Sciloons were “known” for attracting people with “above average” IQ’s.
              I don’t accept that statement as fact, however I don’t doubt that some very smart people got sucked into the Sciloon vortex

            • Robert Eckert

              Some very smart, some very dumb, lots in the middle, like with any group of people.

            • FistOfXenu

              I agree with you Anonymookme. That claim doesn’t stand up. I just figure the cult’s appeal isn’t to people’s intelligence and isn’t to especially intelligent people. Looks more to me like they appeal to people by some how bypassing intelligence and going straight for the things that make people anxious and scare them.

            • Anonymookme

              And don’t forget the narcissism. The sad, pathetic, desperate need to feel superior to the billions of us poor, un enlightened lesser beings.

            • FistOfXenu

              True

        • Noah Miller

          I’d certainly want to see some evidence of that. Famous has never meant smart.

          • FLUNK_101

            One of the smartest people I know was Scientologist for a while. He got as far as OT III. He read the materials, got up and walked away.
            He doesn’t like to talk about it. It’s an embarrassment!

            • Noah Miller

              Oh I’m sure intelligent people have been in the group. But I don’t think that means the group attracts more intelligent people than any other group does. Maybe because of it’s slick look in the late 80s it could have done this, just on image alone. But I’m just not sure it does actually attract a higher number of intelligent people.

              It’s a small point, but no one thinks they’re the dumb one. So of course everyone who comes out finds it comforting to think that Sci is a thinking man’s cult.

            • FLUNK_101

              No, I was thinking more about the mid 70′s … and I read that in an article about cults.

            • Noah Miller

              I’d love to know how that was quantified. I’m just not sure how someone is able to gather that information. Especially since the church would fake the hell out of that data if they had any input.

            • FLUNK_101

              Good points.

        • Missionary Kid

          One can claim above average IQs, but definitely below average Emotional Quotient. $cientology is all about manipulating the emotions, and they are more powerful than intelligence. There is no real connection between the two.

          • FLUNK_101

            It attracted all kinds of people back in the seventies. The people I knew were not emotional cripples, not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

            • Missionary Kid

              i did not say emotional cripples. EQ is an assessment of Emotional intelligence (EI) is the ability to identify, assess, and control the emotions of oneself, of others, and of groups.

              This includes people who are neurotic in some areas, or have self-esteem problems, or haven’t formed fully an idea of who they are, or who are willing to accept others assessment of them. Co$ takes advantage of any of those weaknesses in a person’s personality.

              One can be fairly well balanced in most of their life, but have one glaring weakness emotionally that cripples the rest of their emotional health.

              Edit: The personality test is a probe to find a weakness so it can be exploited.

            • FLUNK_101

              I think there’s some truth to that … at the very least, you have to be “searching” for something, and that could be a manifestation of an unresolved emotional conflict.

            • Zana

              I think the searching and the growing is the life process. We are all there. Becoming our potential. It’s a journey. So we all have LOTS of unresolved things. However…we find peace in loving. Somehow that brings our attention back to aliveness and caring. And… like the flowers…we bloom a little bit at a time.

              And at some point… we become who we are and content. Enlightenment. Peace. Inclusion of all the polarities in life.

            • villagedianne

              I think there are two kinds of spiritual seekers. Those that are natural seekers, and those that become seekers because of an emotional crises. There is nothing wrong with being one of the second kind. For instance, Jesus said something like “I came for the sick, not for the well.”

              When you are in an emotional crises, it can be hard to make the right distinctions, or recognise the red flags. You just have to be really careful when you search, or at least be lucky enough to find a group or a practice that respects your freedom.

            • Kim O’Brien

              disco attracted people …just sayin . I mean dude…it was the 70′s …they sucked , so people needed a ton of distractions. After the Pill came along ..cults popped up everywhere . Most people may have tried a commune for a few months ..or lived in a tee-pee in New Mexico ..or lived in a tree house for the forest service like my dad did when he got back from Vietnam…but they woke up , grew up , got a job and went on with life. Scientology is stuck …scientologists are stuck …and they may not have been blind to the world around them when they got in ….but they sure as hell are now….and the world is just passing them by .

              p.s If i were Leah ..i would kick Stacy’s ass …. american idol losing stupid twitter twat

            • Zana

              I think Stacy is kicking her OWN ass. She is appearing to be quite a Star Fucker (as they are called in Hollywood.) Leah is out-classing ALL of these so-called celebrfities.

              There is one thing that is well-known in Hollywood: Never under-estimate the insecurity of a star.

            • GlibWog

              X Factor Kim..( Not American Idol..) but still a losing stupid twitter twat.. I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet..but Tony did a great article on Stacy at the VV on Nov 7th.
              2011.
              Can’t stand that Fraud. X Factor is a show about undiscovered amateurs. She went Boo hooin on stage.. Wah, Wah, Wahin that she was a single mother, domestic violence, too old etc. and yet she had a performance sheet a mile long. Couldn’t stand that lyin bitch back then.
              Can’t stand that lyin bitch today.

            • Robert Eckert

              I vaguely remembered that one and looked it up again: what a walk down memory lane! Not just for Tony’s article (and click on the Update link for a followup with Freewinds video of Tom Cruise singing) but the comments section, then overrun with Scilon apologists. SP Onage is one of the few still posting a lot nowadays who posted repeatedly in that thread (I see Chuck Beatty and Vistaril deep in there; but I myself was just a lurker in those halcyon days).

              http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/michael_sandlof.php

              http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/tom_cruise_and_stacy_francis_scientology.php

            • Guest
            • Zana

              I was told by a friend who was in the church in the 70s that it was a whole different experience. That it was fun. Exciting. Although he finally left when he audited and his final cognition was, “No love.”

            • Missionary Kid

              There never was any love, even at the beginning.

            • Zana

              Wow. Thanks.

        • villagedianne

          Not all the Scientologists I met were all that bright. There was a spectrum, from bright, to really dumb. I felt that even the bright ones were not especially deep thinkers. They were bright but in a superficial way. What changed my mind was reading Jeff Hawkins. Is Hawkins an anolomy, or are/were there more like him in the COS?

        • HyperionCorp

          Nothing boosts your intelligence like christianity, because the majority of Nobel Prize winners are christian. (See what I did there?)

  • cre8tivewmn

    I just had an idea: since Leah helped everybody so much and now they’re turning on her, she can send them all “freeloader bills” for her services.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Not a bad idea. Except Leah appears to be above that. Classy, really.

  • John P.

    Once again, the cult’s reaction to Leah Remini’s defection is bringing disconnection to the fore in a way that will be forever linked with her story. When disconnection becomes common knowledge among the general public along with “kooky beliefs” (from the Tom Cruise story) and “wants all your money,” that will help turn the perception of the cult from odd and annoying to outright evil. That, of course, will further choke off the already almost nonexistent trickle of new members.

    And Leah’s receipt of mass disconnection has got to have the rest of the “whale” donors (*cough* Duggan *cough*) thinking about their relationship with the cult. If, at the end of the day, you only get treated like a “big being” when you are writing checks, and are treated like all the riff-raff when you stop, it will shortly start to gnaw on you that the treatment you’re currently receiving is a complete sham, just in case you were naive enough to believe that the cult respected you. Watch for a new wave of longtime whales to start blowing. I’m not suggesting that the cult will lose intellectual lightweights like the Elfmans, Mastersons, Ribisis or Nancy Cartwright. I’m thinking that the business guys are at higher risk, particularly Duggan and a few of the others (probably not the Feshbachs, who are still too embedded and who aren’t really making much dough these days).

    Once again, Miscavige is showing his firm commitment to putting out fires with gasoline.

    Regarding the response to the Culkin declaration, to my surprise, the word “bombastic” is correctly employed in a sentence, though it is something of a stretch to associate the term with Jeffery’s writing, which I admire because it’s great legal work disguised in the style of a small-town Texas good ol’ boy lawyer. Sounds to me like the Deviant Midget picked up a shiny new power vocabulary word this week and was determined to use it.

    And finally, thanks to Scott for the observation

    If you’re alone in a boat, common sense dictates that shooting it full of holes will ultimately have adverse consequences.

    This could be the strategic analysis overview of nearly every decision that Miscavige makes these days. He’s got a machine gun on full automatic pointed at the gunwales.

    • FLUNK_101

      I like your idea that Leah should occasionally contact those who’ve disconnected from her, as if nothing had happened. That might precipitate some soul-searching.
      Unfortunately, if those persons are celebs that the church values, Leah’s contacting them could kick Scientology’s vicious war machine into high gear.
      When all the dust settles, I just hope the “church” is kaput.

      • John P.

        What? You’re implying that having several full time staff members ensuring that everyone has de-friended you from Facebook is not “Scientology’s vicious war machine [in] high gear”? :-) :-) :-)

        The clever move on Leah’s part would be to continue to chisel away at the celebrity hangers-on like the Brownstones (profiled the other day), and that ilk. The Elfmans, Cartwrights, Alleys etc. are hopeless and a waste of her time. If she maintains correspondence with, say, 200+ “regular” public, Miscavige would never find them all once he heard about one or two. More importantly, he would never be able to assure himself that he found them all, which would mess with his head something fierce. Then he’ll do more stupid ham-handed stuff and embarrass himself and the cult still further. He’s predictable that way. And that is the real point of the exercise.

        • FLUNK_101

          With people in the field, yes.
          But with people “on lines” (taking a course or getting audited), Leah’s contacting them will come up in session or in an interview on the e-meter. It will be seen as a direct threat to org’s income. Someone might do more than just de-friend her …

        • Vistaril

          What? You’re implying that having several full time staff members ensuring that everyone has de-friended you from Facebook is not “Scientology’s vicious war machine [in] high gear”? :-) :-) :-)

          Heh! True. The L Ron Hubbard Scientology war machine is only just getting warmed up. Leah will know when it slips into high gear if she finds herself being stalked, her phone number left in public toilets, her neighbours interviewed, drugs discovered on her property, her home raided by police, stories of her having illegitimate children filtered into the press, a hit’n’run incident manufactured, and bomb threats with her fingerprints start turning up . . . just ask Paulette Cooper, Jim Berry, Gabe Cazares, Bob Minton, Gerry Armstrong, et al. As a celeb staying schtum about the tech and with the internet gaze turned upon the situation, Leah might escape the worst of what Scientology {scripture} teaches is acceptable but, as L Ron Hubbard demands ” . . . always get even”.

          • MissCandle

            You’re right V!
            Leah: Hire a security guard for your pets!

          • Lark Smith

            Okay, I just read that. Repeating the phrase Observer gave me over and over “Scientology: it’s always worse than you think” .. Really they target pets too?

            • Vistaril

              Yep. Scientology operatives drowned the pet dog of Judge Ronald Swearinger who was hearing one of the most significant cases ever won against the cult.

              The phrase to which you refer is part of the set of laws concerning Scientology. The full version goes . . .

              There are only two absolutes in Scientology: it is never as it at first appears and it is always worse than you think.

              . . . I’ve been Scientology watching for a few years now and still find that to be true.

            • Robert Eckert

              In the Brian Culkin matter, it wasn’t as it at first appeared, or as it at second appeared, and does not seem to be what it was when it third appeared either.

            • MarionDee

              Re Culkin: I feel like I’m trying to keep track of a shell game. It just keeps whirling.

            • piper

              And there are many more, I’m sure. If you could get former OSA staff to post (anonymously ) some of the cruel tricks and crimes they’re ordered to perform in order to psychologically harass their target victims there’d be a much more accurate picture painted of the morality of this money grubbing cult that turns people into zealot zombies!

            • FistOfXenu

              And it goes back a long way. Read about Paulette Cooper and what they did to her. There’s nothing too low for them to do.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              There was a thread on here a long time ago where several exes who were fair gamed actually discussed their missing or murdered pets. Some of it was just awful.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              There was a thread on here a long time ago where several exes who were fair gamed actually discussed their missing or murdered pets. Some of it was just awful.

            • piper

              I hope someone archived it. Judgment falls much harded on whata perp does to a victim’s pet than on what is done to the victim.

            • MarionDee

              IMO, even in the context of all its crimes, the worst (and most effective) negative publicity that the cult could receive is that it kills the pets of those who leave it.

            • grundoon
            • Lark Smith

              Kitten and puppy killers just great – sociopaths frequently harm animals, lack of empathy and emotional connection.

            • MarionDee

              Exactly. The sociopathic nature of this is pretty well known. Killing pets IS as low as you can go. Killing the trusting, the innocent, the vulnerable, the beautiful (just as nature made them).

          • Zana

            And this time IT WILL BE ALL OVER THE INTERNET. The world will see how corrupt the Co$ is. They won’t be able to do it in the dark. I think those kinds of actions would backfire badly.

            Leah Remini is amazing. What a great friend she is and such a smart woman. Stand strong! Thank you, Leah. !!

        • Calvin Duffield

          Always great to read your laser sharp take on thing scientological, John! Of course, the one thing an SP, especially of the caliber of one who compulsively Mustdamage, is to actually become predictable…… so please, just realize, it IS a “compulsion”, after all!

          • Calvin Duffield

            (correction!) ..the one thing an SP fears,…

            • Vistaril

              Given that the prime indicator of an SP is a person who speaks truth about L Ron Hubbard and Scientology, in what way does David Miscavige qualify as an SP? The idea that an SP is somehow equivalent to a sociopath was just recently and completely debunked by Gerry Armstrong.

        • FLUNK_101

          “:-):-):-)”

          : )

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          Eventually, it becomes clear who has stayed friends with those who leave and who has disconnected. They still will keep going to events, give a few dollars to IAS, possibly take courses. But they don’t get auditing any more, they don’t have to face the e-meter and sec checks. Over time, that reveals who is really with the program.

          And there are always those zealots who write a KR at the drop of the hat! The ones who think their mission in life is sniffing about for little signs someone is not with the program. People who want to stay friends with Leah have to worry about them.

          It makes for a fluid scene that Miscavige simply cannot control, and his solution is more and more pressure to get the money from them before they leave.

        • NoMoreVisitsPlease

          I like your idea, but of course it would depend on whether or not Leah just wants to move on in peace, or become an Anti Scientology Crusader. The latter is a tough job that takes a lot of time and energy, and I temporarily [or longer] suspends one’s own extrication from the cult and return to “normal life.”

          • Mischa

            So very true. Could not say it better.

        • Jgg2012

          When your enemy destroying himself, don’t interfere.

        • Marie Claire Wolf

          I love the concept of messing with Devil Miscarage’s head. Maybe anyone who has connections inside Co$ could deluge these people with ‘invites’. All of a sudden a barrage of mails, call etc…., that surely would upset the whole shebang, take advantage of the weakened state of affairs and let the flood begin!

    • 1subgenius

      She still has not spoken out publicly against the cult. And yet, this reaction. Well played, Leah.
      And proceeding as normal would be a variation on “living well is the best revenge.”
      Give people an opportunity to show what kind of person they are, and when they do, believe it.

      • Zana

        Wow… great quote: “Give people an opportunity to show what kind of person they are, and when they do, believe it.” Whew!

        People usually let you know who they are within the first 25 minutes.

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          People usually let you know who they are within the first 25 minutes.

          No… they really don’t.

          • Missionary Kid

            Especially if they have ulterior motives, like Scions trying to recruit.

        • ExRoot

          Absolutely not true.

    • juliusstahl

      “And Leah’s receipt of mass disconnection has got to have the rest of the “whale” donors (*cough* Duggan *cough*) thinking about their relationship with the cult.”

      From your lips to God’s ears!

      Your analysis is excellent as ever. Whatever the whales may have gotten by way of psychological and self-performance improvement from Scientology the ratio of benefits derived versus the minuses of being associated with David Miscavige’s brutally inhumane Church of Scientology is becoming increasingly negative by the day.

      It was less than three months ago that a mere handful of us anti-Scientology activists on Twitter and Facebook were able to get human rights advocate Kerry Kennedy to “postpone” her appearance at a Hollywood soirée put on by the Scientology front group Artists For Human Rights at the home of its founder, Actress Anne Archer, who is now busily stabbing Leah Remini in the back.

      A real paragon of human rights, that Anne.

      I do hope that Leah Remini reads your excellent advice and will continue to invite the friends who have disconnected to dinner and to events.

      Troll the cultists with kindness, Leah. It’s the Catholic way.

      Romans 12:20 “If your enemy is hungry feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink, for by doing so you will heap burning coals of shame on his head,”

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        We in RTC note with disdain that — once again! — the usual tiny handful of self-promoting SP’s with pop guns are taking potshots at the most Ethical group on the planet.

        The real story of Leah Remini and the Church of Scientology has already been posted at the most famous blog in the world: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/07/11/leah-remini-attacks-the-church-of-scientology/

        Oh how we in the Church of Scientology wish it were different. How we wish all of you hypnotized and dangerous wog zombies would come to your senses and embrace Scientology!

        But that will never happen and that is why, very soon, all of you will be tracked down and arrested by OSA, after which you will beaten until you confess your crimes against the Church. After you are convicted, you will be sent to the Scientology Thought Reform Gulag located far underground in a secret location. And yes, this means you will finally be able to meet Shelly.

        By way of concluding on an upbeat and happy note:

        1. COB RTC David Miscavige is to cut the ribbon this afternoon on our newest Ideal Org in Zzyzx, California.

        2. We in RTC are pleased to report that Lost Springs, Wyoming has become the first OT CITY on the planet!

        3. There was highest ever record attendance at last night’s graduation at Flag. Scientologists sat enthralled for seven hours listening to win after win after win.

        http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/dscf93271_zps25eef612.jpg

        • sugarplumfairy

          Oooohhhh.. The meat body store…

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            “Bodies in Pawn” as the Founder called them.

        • Jgg2012

          So, if Jeffrey subpoenas Davey for a deposition, if he going to say “I am going to be in Lost Springs, Wyoming opening an ideal org”? One good thing about Lost Springs is that it only ha 3-4 SPs in the entire city.

    • USA MRIID

      Wait until that insane Dwarf orders an SP Declare for Remini and it gets replicated in the mass media. :) Of course that insane dwarf and his fellow Tone 1.1ers have no intention of sending her an SP Declare specifically to avoid the consequences. The insane Dwarf is insane but he’s not stupid.

      • USA MRIID

        Oh wait. Yes. Yes is is stupid.

    • Jgg2012

      Is “putting out fires with gasoline” part of LRH tech.

    • Jgg2012

      Shooting holes in a boat is stupid, but what if the boat is infiltrated with SPs and criminals?

  • Sunny Sands

    About the Brian Culkin e-mails. A written e-mail doesn’t appear to carry the same weight as a signed contract. If this point about it being used in litigation was so important, it should have been included in the written declaration. I’m going to venture that Sarah told Brian later not to worry about any silly e-mail, he could sign the document and trust Ms. Heller that it was for internal use only, Sarah is a pretty young woman if you’ve ever seen a pic of her (IMO), and some videos at WWP show her in action with protestors. Scientology put her on the case to convince Brian to do what they wanted.

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      To paraphrase Samuel Goldwyn, an e-mail isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

  • mook

    Good lord, Stacy Francis is unhinged. Must be the crack…

    Didn’t she try to start a fight with Whitney Houston shortly before Whitney’s death?

    • pronoia

      ????? Now that does seem unhinged. Why on earth would anyone want to fight with Whitney? She was a mess but she was still Whitney Houston?

      I’ll always remember her as the person who serenaded Tom Cruise t his big birthday bash on the Freewinds. A party which included Shelly Miscavige partying right alongside her husband and Tom Cruise and acting just like the intensely private person she was not at the time.

    • John P.

      It certainly appears that the ratio of Stacy Francis’s assessment of her own talent and importance is remarkably divergent with what the rest of the world believes her level of talent and importance to be.

      • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

        The Dunning-Kruger Effect is at work here.

        This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

        Or, maybe a meahcognative disability?

    • MissCandle

      I saw her on the Xfactor (wince — no flack please) and she cried so much over her past abusive relationship that it seemed liked she was more of a D-list actor channeling Tammy Faye Baker than a singer, and trying to get through the competition based on sympathy instead of talent.

      • Robert Eckert

        It turned out that her whole story about the abusive relationship was fabricated.

        • MissCandle

          Figures. Then she was acting. Her mascara ran all over and down her face when she cried buckets full of alligator tears.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Really? I never saw this show but I get the gist from MissCandle.
          Making up a story about being abused is pretty low and insulting to those who have really endured abuse.
          Shame on her!

          • MissCandle

            Stacie Francis and Jodi Arias. Two peas in a pod. Who woulda thunk?

        • Observer

          Not fabricated–it was an acceptable truth!

      • TheWidowDenk

        I’m a big Xfactor fan … no wincing. I agree with MissCandle’s assessment.

      • MissCandle

        I just went to Rinder’s blog (referenced here by Media Lush — thank you) and saw that his lead-in picture of S.F. shows her in all her mascara-drooling glory.

        • TheWidowDenk

          Darn my memory! Wasn’t the supposed “abuse” that the person said Stacy couldn’t sing or wouldn’t make it as a singer? Thus dashing Stacy’s hopes for a singing career and causing all the upset?

          • MissCandle

            {Turned out to be Shortie (D.M.) and for once, he was right!}
            {}= snark font, vagina brackets and too many nicknames to list; just know that I am being sarcastic.

          • V4Vacation

            Why yes, here is Tony’s 2011 interview with Stacy Francis’s first husband, and all the twisted abuse claims, etc: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/michael_sandlof.php

            • TheWidowDenk

              Thank you! Yes, I had read that article by Tony and that’s what I was (sort of) recalling. Stacy sure made a mess out of that one.

  • pronoia

    It is impossible to imagine that after all this-and esp after this latest round-Brian Culkin’s could possibly have anything to say regarding Johnson or any other attorney that has any validity. It seems as though all the church lawyers are doing now is to try to redeem their own credibility with the court. And of course the Garcias to waste as much time and money as possible on deposing Brian and whoever else, thereby creating a distraction for as long as possible from the a actual matter at hand.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Leah is sounding more and more like a rocking lady.
    She will be fine. It’s good to find out who really cares about you….as opposed to themselves.
    She will come through this even stronger in the end.
    It sounds like her true friends are stellar and love her very much.

    • FLUNK_101

      “It’s good to find out who really cares about you….as opposed to themselves.”

      You can say that again!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        You reap what you sow!
        Now stick to the topic and knock off your “poor me” drama.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          oh boy.

          3….2….1….

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Haha. I don’t much care. I got a cooler full of oysters on Ice and a full tank of gas…
            Tampa bay, here I come…. well…In a few hours, lol.

        • FLUNK_101

          I WAS sticking to the topic … And I’m doing just fine, BTN! Thanks for asking!

    • Tony Williams

      Your point about ‘who really cares about you…as opposed to themselves.’ made me think about the exes and still-ins I have encountered over the years, and how I (this may make me sound mean, but it’s true) have generally liked the staffers better than the publics. Staffers are there because they believe, and want to share that belief, but publics are there because they believe, and they want the Sooper Powers! I certainly won’t be the first to point out the incredible amounts of narcissism inherent in Hubbard’s creation, will I? ’til next time!

  • media_lush

    Mike Rinder has good piece on Stacy Francis.
    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/let-the-sliming-begin/

    • tetloj

      Mike’s blog sure is juicier than Marty’s was (at least for the last couple of years). It has made its way up to the top 3 of my Scientology reading ATM.

      • Vistaril

        Watch out for the “acceptable truths” . . .

        . . . This is the pattern of dead-agenting, disconnection and control preached and practiced by the church of Miscavige. It bears no resemblance to the fundamental principles of Scientology — the mutant monster of a church is crushing all the good contained in the subject beneath a relentless avalanche of crap . . .

        (Emphasis mine.)

        • Phil McKraken

          Yeah, I like reading his stuff some, but then I stumble across this, and realize that he’s missing his target by a wide margin.

  • shasha40

    Wow ! Leah gets Kewler everyday! Thank you Leah for being the person you are, encouraging Michelle to take the job with Ru ,I am now indebted to you forever. Michelle, you are a true friend and a kick ass chick in your own right ! Can I hang with you 2? I don’t know who’ll win the cussing contest , but I know we’d have a Blast ! Tony, you da man !

  • Missionary Kid

    Here’s a link to the Good Morning America piece on Leah. It ends with a statement by Co$ that Shelly is working for the church and is an intensely private person. Yeah, {good excuse.}

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/leah-remini-scientology-kings-queens-actress-rebuked-miscaviges-19697521

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      The Intensely Private Inconvenient Wife….
      Good title for her book someday.

      • Captain Howdy

        Or..”Wall of Fire Walk With Me: My Life With Evil COB”

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Ooh, good one.

          • Captain Howdy

            I know.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              When are you going to recycle bear suit chicken leg girl?
              I miss her!

            • Captain Howdy

              Soon. W.C is one of my personal heroes. I can’t believe I didn’t think of him before.

            • grundoon

              “Never give a sucker an even break!”

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              How apt!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              Ever do any boondoggling, BTN?

              http://youtu.be/gpDD0eOq-0o

            • Captain Howdy

              “You can’t cheat an honest man”

            • N. Graham

              “Was I in here last night and did I spend a $50 bill?

              Oh, thank goodness… I thought I’d lost it.”

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lynch is an acquired taste..

            • Captain Howdy

              SPF, whatever do you mean?

              http://youtu.be/qZowK0NAvig

            • sugarplumfairy

              Think I may have to see that..

      • sugarplumfairy

        Something Pissed off This Way Comes?

        The Degraded Being’s Guide to the Guh-LAX-y?

        Are You There, Big Being? It’s me, Shelly..

        Good beach reads.. I could do this all day..

        I cannot believe this is my fourth weekend in a row spent on the beach reading Tony and you guys instead of relaxing..

        • HeatherGraceful

          Pride and Postulates.

          Scent of a Wog.

          Bridget Jones’ PC File.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. I love it..

      • sugarplumfairy

        The Unbearable lightness of Beingness?

        Somebody, stop me..

      • sugarplumfairy

        The Devil Wears Shoe Lifts?

    • 1subgenius

      This is now a euphemism for imprisonment.
      Nelson Mandela was merely an intensely private person for over 25 years.

      • John P.

        Yes, and he spent those 25 intensely private years on Robben Island, a voluntary political retreat in a scenic island location that is now a World Heritage Site because of its scenic beauty. At least, that is how the government of South Africa would have portrayed it were they Scientologists.

        Remember the laughable statement about the RPF from the Australian Broadcasting Corp. story on Shane Kelsey, reported last February by Tony:

        The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is a voluntary religious program of spiritual rehabilitation to provide a “second chance” to those who have failed to fulfill their ecclesiastical responsibilities as members of the Sea Organization, the religious order of the Church of Scientology. It represents a free religious commitment by the individual to a spiritual discipline.

        Yep, Robben Island represented a free political commitment by the individual to a political discipline, since Nelson Mandela merely needed a “second chance” to endorse the apartheid policies of the government.

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      The fact that they aren’t producing her in this shitstorm makes me think one of two things:

      1) She’s had it, and will say that she’s a prisoner if she’s let outside. Or:
      2) She’s dead.

      • Missionary Kid

        There is a third, and that is that they need to condition her and fatten up so she’ll appear more or less normal.

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          She’s already so thin in the pictures we have of her, I guess I find it hard to imagine how she could possibly be any thinner without being very close to death.

  • Ciru

    I haven’t been able to read past this quote yet: “I may not have had the balls to get this job.” about a reality show for drag queens. :)

  • Truthiwant

    With all respect to the citizens of this unfortunately named town near Salzburg, Austria,
    I was wondering if it might be the sort of place where David Miscavige could open up an Org, then he would have a Fucking Ideal Org and a place where the
    Fucking Scientologists could study!

    • FLUNK_101

      Fucking A!
      (Uh, I mean Fucking, Austria.)

    • Mark

      People would only steal the org signs:

      • Truthiwant

        That’s a good one!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I sure would!!!

      • Lark Smith

        LOL…LOL

      • Captain Howdy

        “We will not stand for the Fucking signs being removed” the officer said.

        Oh, come on, this is The Onion, right?

    • USA MRIID

      I would fucking steal that sign in a fucking second if I saw one.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    While not a Culkin fan (Haha, ya think!)…I will give him props for throwing Ray Jeffery into the mix.
    I love that guy!
    He makes Davey’s little ass pucker up so tight he could make diamonds.

    • Peter

      Now THAT is a visually enhancing punch line! ROFL Bravo!!!

    • 1subgenius

      “David Miscavige’s prostate gland

      Puckers every time he reads an Avagram.”

      (Enturbulator 009)

    • richelieu jr

      So THAT’S what Culkin was doing on that video! Looking for diamonds!

  • Bob

    The analogy of “scattering like roaches” is so apt. What does a clam do if he or she runs into an old friend (who is now declared) in a supermarket? He or she runs for the hills or tries to act as if the person is not there. So much for the Scientolgist/OT who is suppose to be able to confront anything. I have seen this happen.
    This heinous practice is a true control mechanism that allows the church to gauge who is still under their control and who needs more mind control to be brought back into line by whatever methods are needed to maintain their Scieborg status.

    Scientology breeds Karmic Kowards and you can take that to the BANK!

    Leah has courage; something that seems to be in short thrift for people like Kirstie and friends. The only place where robots have courage is in the movie WALL-E. In real life robots do what their masters tell them.

  • BosonStark

    What Nicole Remini has done is terrific, and now more of Leah’s real friends speaking out for her. She definitely seems to be a cut above the average scilebrity or even the average person for that matter.

    However, I still think Leah Remini should read Going Clear and other books, and have a good long hard look at her entire involvement in Scientology, and simply come out with a statement similar to Haggis — I was stupid.

    In the case of Nicole and Leah Remini, they were dragged into it as children so it was more their mother’s vulnerability and stupidity. However, as a scilebrity who did actively recruit so many friends into it thinking it was so good, she could still apologize for doing that.

    I think it was Kevin James, her co-star on King of Queens, who has now said, “Whatever makes her happy.” Yet, when that show was being made, James was annoyed that Leah insisted on having some kind of cult rep on the set. I don’t know the details.

    • 1subgenius

      Its hard to believe, with what has occurred, that Leah won’t take a long hard look at the big picture.

      • richelieu jr

        Not sure.. She’s got her family around her, some of whom are true believers…
        Se sure seems like an intelligent, caring, ballsy woman from everything I’ve read… Hard to believe she’s been drinking the flavour-aid for so long, if all of this is true…

        • sugarplumfairy

          A lot of what you learn at six sticks with you.. I still don’t step on cracks because I’d never want to be responsible for ortho surgery on my mom’s coccyx..

      • SandiCorrena

        I really think she will (HOPE) but it’s only been a minute for her-she needs some decompression time. I’m so grateful to her for publicly leaving.

      • pronoia

        I have a feeling she has been for quite awhile. Something has been shifting in the family for some time — her sister Nicole has been out since 2006 (the year of Tom Cruise crazy. I have a feeling that Leah may’ve been flying below the radar (as so many have described it) until she could get her OT8 mother and step-father out. Maybe her mother is making a pit stop in indie land. Maybe not, but I think it is clear that Leah and her sister have been airing doubts between themselves for some time.

  • juliusstahl

    Thank you for mentioning Victoria Britton’s one-hour interview about the death of her son Kyle Brennan on Colleen Sautez’ X-Women show at Noon Pacific/3:00 pm Eastern.

    Sarah Heller, who you have mentioned in regard to Brian Culkin, works for Scientology’s intelligence agency the Office of Special Affairs (OSA).

    She took up her post as Legal Director for the Church of Scientology Flag Organization in Clearwater in August 2006 when Denis Miscavige’s protégé Tom Brennan attempted to handle his son Kyle Brennan and threatened him with violence, an event that set in motion a series of events that leading to Kyle’s death in Clearwater six months later under circumstances so suspicious that it appears this was a murder covered up to look like suicide.

    Sara Heller is Flag’s liaison with the Clearwater Police and in particular with Detective Stephen Bohling, whose investigation and report with their massive obstruction of justice and lies furnished the basis for OSA to deceive Judge Stephen Merryday causing him to dismiss the wrongful-death suit filed by Kyle’s family.

    Sarah Heller has been at every court hearing and deposition in Kyle’s case and trolls the internet to counter entheta about Scientology and Denise Miscavige’s involvement in the death of Kyle Brennan.

    For those coming to Kyle’s story for the first time there is a bullet point summary of the events that led up to Kyle’s death in a post announcing the interview on Why We Protest:

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/victoria-britton-interview-on-the-death-of-kyle-brennan-saturday-july-20-2013-noon-pacific-time.112435/#post-2333187

    • Christine Baranay

      Sarah Heller is the daughter of Katie Heller. Katie is/was a Class IX auditor back in the late 80-90′s. Katie’s mother is current Freewinds Senior CS Margaret Supak and Katie’s father is Jon Supak – a great guy, comes from old money New England, is a twin and I’ve heard currently very very ill.

      Sarah is a third generation scientologist with absolutely no hope is waking up, being honest, not doing whatever it takes to MAKE IT GO RIGHT!!

      • Vistaril

        Sarah Heller at work attempting to handle Anon protestors . . .

      • grundoon

        Is Sara Heller related to ASI/CST/BPI attorney Lawrence Heller? http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/starkey-lenske-fraud.htm

        • Christine Baranay

          I don’t know. Her grandfather (her mother’s husband was a German FSM – he never joined the SO)

          I don’t believe Katie had any more children.

    • Christine Baranay

      Sarah Heller is the daughter of Katie Heller. Katie is/was a Class IX auditor back in the late 80-90′s. Katie’s mother is current Freewinds Senior CS Margaret Supak and Katie’s father is Jon Supak – a great guy, comes from old money New England, is a twin and I’ve heard currently very very ill.

      Sarah is a third generation scientologist with absolutely no hope is waking up, being honest, not doing whatever it takes to MAKE IT GO RIGHT!!

  • InterestedObserver12

    I think Paul Haggis should cast Leah and Katie in buddy movie.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Thelma and Louise with e-meters….

      • richelieu jr

        Let’s drive off the cliff! What does’ the meter say!

        SecCheck (hits the accelerator)

    • EnthralledObserver

      I was actually thinking yesterday that some enterprising filmmaker come cult watcher should cast Leah and Tom Cruise in a flick together… hehehe… I’m giggling at the fallout already.

      • InterestedObserver12

        Cruise as Kirk and Leah and Katie as green-skin femme fatales

        • Zana

          And Kirstie as…?? the Wookie?

          • GlibWog

            Nope.. The Cookie Monster

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            No a whale.

          • piper

            Nope; Jabba the Hut!

      • Jgg2012

        No, they should do a biopic ABOUT Tom Cruise. Katie, Nicole, et al can play themselves. TC and Davey strategizing about Scientology idle orgs like a couple of Monopoly players would be hysterical.

    • AnyOldName1

      I was thinking that too! But would add Nicole Kidman as the third buddy and Jason Beghe as the required male character. Lisa Marie could do the score.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I think something more along the lines of Kill Bill would work.. These girls kick ass!

    • CharlieWaters

      Maybe it could be a “Thelma and Louise” type thing with Jason Beghe playing a state trooper.

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        Thelma and Louise had an unhappy ending, yuck.

        Something like “The Sting” would work nicely, I think.

    • FLUNK_101

      Davey’s Angels?

      • Robert Eckert

        With Leah, Katie, and Nicole Kidman?

  • whingeybingey

    Re Culkin – I KNEW noone could be that naive.

    • Phil McKraken

      Paid $350,000 in his first year. There’s naive, and then there’s naive.

      On the other hand, despite all the back-and-forth about his credibility and numbnutsosity, he got a lot, if not all, of his money back. That’s pretty savvy.

      • USA MRIID

        That’s a bit less than $959 a day that Culkinhanded over to the insane Dwarf. Question the IQ of someone who bends over without a hint of thought… In fact fuck that, the real question is, how can *I* get that stupid fuck Culkin to hand *me* $959 a day for nothing but obvious bullshit lies?

  • Watergate

    Any blows to Culkin’s credibility benefit ONLY the Garcias. Church’s counsel don’t seem to be that bright.

  • Mary_McConnell

    Good catch, Tony. I am glad Michelle Visage is speaking up for Leah… but hat Leah needs to understand is that scientologists are afraid to run to her defense. They are indoctrinated to believe that their eternity and their relationships are at risk. Yjey are afraid. Even if they wanted to talk and defend her, the risks at this time are too great. Things like this take planning, preparation. Many of us exes have been through this personally. This fear is so pervasive that their silence should not be misconstrued as having turned their backs to her. It’s my suspicion that she has many people in her corner but they just can’t make themselves visible, audible at this time. Leah’s leaving and it being announced has planted a seed of doubt – where there was already doubt. She should take the silence as just one thing that will eventually pass. Her leaving is helping people, whether she knows it or not.

    The church wants her to feel she had betrayed her group. They want her to feel the shunning. To doubt her actions, to feel loss. These vocal and disconnecting scientologists, like Stacy Francis, they are only a few. There is a world of people who have her in their thoughts and prayers and I suspect there are many scientologists who are watching and waiting to see the outcome of all this, hoping Leah comes out of it unscathed.

    So it’s better not to be stymied by the lack of showing of support from the scientology community. Better to move on and let things fall where they may. If her family members followed her out, as is claimed, them so will many of these diehard cult friends. In the end, Leah will know who her true friends are. The end is not over by a long shot .

    Re: Culkin Garcia matter: Scott summed it up just right.

    Can’t wait to listen in to the interview of Victoria Britton ( Kyle Brennan’s mom) . Lets all make time for that!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/god-discussion/2013/07/20/kyle-victoria–a-story-of-injustice

    • MissCandle

      Interesting insight, Mary. I see your point in taking the long view instead of focusing on the short term disappointments. Silver linings may be coming.

    • John P.

      They are indoctrinated to believe that their eternity and their relationships are at risk.

      This is true. But it’s also useful to fork this statement into two separate sentences. First, it is true that some Scientologists do believe that their “eternity” is at risk. These are the Kool-Aid drinkers who actually think the Tech works and that Hubbard was the Smartest. Guy. Ever. I don’t know what percentage of the LA Scientology crowd is in this category, but it is definitely nothing like 100% of the population. These are not the people who would be affected by all the news flowing out about Leah.

      Also, some Scientologists believe that their relationships are at risk. But these people are not necessarily a huge overlap with the number of people who believe that their eternity is at risk. In other words, don’t forget there are a lot of public who still count as “in” but are “sideliners” or “under the radar,” who no longer believe in the potential of the “tech” to help themselves or in Scientology to clear the planet, but who remain involved solely because of the potential of forced disconnection to ruin their personal lives, and perhaps more importantly, their businesses. These are the people that Leah can affect. Once it is shown that disconnection is a temporary hurdle that can be overcome, it is not sufficient to keep these people in the cult. Of particular import here is the fact that Leah was able to engineer a mass defection of her entire family so that intra-family disconnection, the worst possible outcome, was not a factor that could keep her in the cult. That’s why Miscavige is battling back so brutally to get her friends to disconnect, by the way. So if Leah is able to get more people out who are now disconnecting over the next year or two, that will lower the barrier to exit for the people staying in just because of fear of loss of business from disconnection.

      • Gerard Plourde

        An interesting side question is “How important are the true Kool-ade drinkers to the CO$’s bottom line?” It seems to me that those most immersed in the cult would be precisely the ones least able to effectively contribute financially, for example Kitstie Alley. Immersing oneself deeply in Scientology appears to be a sure fire way to destroy one’s interpersonal skills and creativity. Not a recepie for financial success.

        • John P.

          That’s exactly why I divided the cult membership into two groups that are for all intents and purposes mutually exclusive. The Kool-Aid drinkers follow orders but are not necessarily all that bright, and (with a few celebrity exceptions) don’t have a lot of money. Sort of like the “Minions” in “Despicable Me” (http://www.themagazine.ca/cms/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/minions.jpg ). Enthusiastic but not necessarily all that competent. The other camp is competent but, these days, not all that enthusiastic. But they do have the money that Miscavige covets as much has he covets obedience.

          He’s gotten backed into a corner the last few years of having to manage two completely separate constituencies with two separate agendas, requiring two separate approaches. That’s tough. It’s rather similar to the dilemma of the modern Republican party — two separate constituencies (socially moderate financial conservatives and ideological purity-driven wingnuts) that have nothing in common (and in fact seem to increasingly hate each other) but who ultimately need each other for the whole thing to keep lurching along. And in both cases, the folks with the money are far less motivated to stick around than the ideology-driven nutcases.

          • pronoia

            The Squirrel Busters vs the Whales!

            • Missionary Kid

              Popcorn.

          • MissCandle

            “He’s gotten backed into a corner the last few years of having to manage two completely separate constituencies with two separate agendas, requiring two separate approaches.”

            Really bad things happen when a rat gets backed into a corner (reference “Native Son”).

            • Observer

              I was thinking Ben (that shows my age!)

            • MissCandle

              That applies too. My age is shown.

          • Gerard Plourde

            It does seem like the train wreck is inevitable.

            • DodoTheLaser

              It is happening, as we speak.

          • Mary_McConnell

            I don’t know whether you were ever a scientologist or not but it seems to me that you lack group experience as one. Here’s how it works inside the cult. Members are embraced by other members very quickly. They meet other scientologists when they go to Flag, ASHO or AO. It become a real clique fast. It’s like ‘us against the world’, where one can talk about scientology without fear of being attacked or questioned. Even if some aren’t drinking as much Kool Aid. even if one attempts to avoid this culture, there are people met along the way that one must keep in contact with in order to not be outed as not being dedicated. It’s a real peer pressure issue, no matter how you get around it. This group thing is insular. One of the biggest losses exes feel when they leave is that group camaraderie, real or just remembered from the past. Nearly all ‘scientologists have read and studied KSW#1, many 100 + times minimum. They know what is expected of them and when the call to arms or the call to disconnect comes, they follow it, even if they really don’t want to, because others will find out and they will be HANDLED fast, at their own expense.

            It is this group dynamic I wrote of. I have been on both sides of this matter. I have disconnected from people immediately because we were told to. I have been disconnected from, as well. It’s a well oiled machine in process. It can take a long time to get out from under the automaticities of scientology thought control. Leah, herself, has been a part of this KSW#1 mentality to some degree or another. One can’t escape it when in. And she is at the beginnings of being on the other side… it sucks… one has to reconsider all ones beliefs in how to respond to the ‘friends’ involved now that she’s on the other side of the fence. The camaraderie that once was, that exciting insular group dynamic of essentially good but brainwashed people she liked and trusted for so many years, has changed. My point is that friendship becomes something else when you become a scientologist. The glue is the agreement as scientologists. Leah needs to take it one day at a time and not take the silence as a permanent disconnection by these people whom she once was very close to AS A SCIENTOLOGIST. Let her continue to plant the seeds of doubt by moving forward with the grace and fortitude she has been showing. Things will settle out. She will become less jaded. She may lose some “friends”. Many have lost friends and children and parents under the same per pressure and indoctrination. It’s a sad reality that Scientology is not equivalent to anything approaching real love and friendship, but by it’s own created group camaraderie effects, it hurts to lose people one once cared about.

            • villagedianne

              When I was around Scientologists in the 80′s (I was hired along with many others as a seasonal employee at a WISE company) I saw exactly the dynamic you are describing. Scientologists for the most part lived with, worked with, socialized with and had relationships exclusively with other Scientologists. I observed that one Scientologist who moved here from another state immediately had a job, friends, and a place to live. I can see how that can be appealing.
              And yes, I also saw what you describe as the “group agreement”. Once in the office a Scientologist said “Of course psychiatry has never helped anybody.” I retorted angrily to her that my analyst had helped me tremendously. She made no reply Obviously she never expected her viewpoint to be challenged inside the cocoon of the WISE company. She made her statement probably without thinking, just parroting the party line, and she may not have even been able to defend it on the spot. The group agreement shuts off analysis of the group’s beliefs.
              Come to think of it, that’s exactly what happened to Tom Cruise on Matt Laurer. I think he was so unaccustomed to having his viewpoint challenged, that he was unable to defend it. There are real abuses in Psychiatry, just as in any other profession, that Cruise could have brought up. But the best Cruise could come up with was a lame repetition of the Scientology jargon phrase “You’re glib, Matt, you’re glib.”. Cruise was probably more accustomed to people saying “You’re right, Tom, You’re absolutely right.” When this didn’t happen he didn’t know what to do. He’s better with a script, anyway.

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              Anyone familiar with the history of pre-war Nazi Germany will remember the organization of mass activities that served a unifying political purpose as well as the ostensible reason for such activities:

              The Nationalsozialistischer Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (NSRL), more rarely “NSRBL”, (meaning: National Socialist League of the Reich for Physical Exercise), known as Deutscher Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (DRL) until 1938, was the umbrella organization for sports during the Third Reich.

              Sports and propaganda in Nazi Germany: The Aryan ideal

              The Deutscher Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (DRL) was established on July 27, 1934 as the official Sports governing body of the Third Reich. It would quickly become a formidable system within the German nation.

              After the DRL’s foundation all other German sport associations gradually lost their freedom and were coopted into the DRL as mere units (“Fachämter”). Even the most prestigious ones, like the German Football Association (DFB) lost their independence. Von Tschammer’s goal was to build a formidable Nazi sports body to which all German sports associations would be submitted. His vision was that physical exercise would “improve the morale and productivity of German workers” as well as making sports a source of national pride for the Germans. Sporting skills were made a criterion for school graduation as well as a necessary qualification for certain jobs and admission to universities.[5] Among the controversial measures taken by the Sports Office of the Reich at the time, the staging of the massive Reichssportfest event on Trinity Sunday was a decision that shocked devout Catholics.[6]

              In 1935 journalist Guido von Mengden, was named public relations officer of the Reich Sports Office. He became the personal advisor and consultant of the Reichssportführer in 1936. A committed Nazi, von Mengden became the chief editor of NS-Sport, the official organ of the Reich Sports Office.[7] Other DRL/NSRL publications included Dietwart, a sports magazine with excellent illustrations and Sport und Staat (Sports and State), a massive four-volume Nazi propaganda report on the organized sports activities in the Third Reich. Sport und Staat was made by Arno Breitmeyer and Hitler’s personal photographer Heinrich Hoffmann. This lavishly illustrated work had many pictures and information about the various Nazi organizations, i.e. SA, NSKK, Bund Deutscher Mädel, Hitler Jugend, etc. Printed in 1934 by the publishing house of the German Sports Aid Funds, a branch of the DRL, only volume one and two of a planned series of four volumes were published.[8]

              The aims of the promotion of sports in the Third Reich included hardening the spirit of every German as well as making German citizens feel that they were part of a wider national purpose. This was in line with the ideals of Friedrich Ludwig Jahn, the “Father of physical exercises”, who connected the steeling of one’s own body to a healthy spirit and promoted the idea of a unified, strong Germany.[9] A more controversial aim was the demonstration of Aryan physical superiority.[10]

              Von Tschammer’s impressively staged events of sports pageantry not only enhanced the physical activity, but also the nationalism of Germans. Nordic aesthetic beauty and commitment to Germanic ideals of race went hand in hand during the Third Reich, and von Tschammer und Osten implemented a policy of racial exclusion within sports. Athletes of Jewish origin were excluded from participation in relevant sporting events.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Interesting parallels.

            • John P.

              Mary, I am a “never-in.”

              The situation you describe, particularly in your first paragraph, is exactly what happens in the early days of people joining a cult. It’s also what happens when people join a military force or a sports team. It’s all about building a sense of teamwork and esprit de corps. People have been doing that for thousands of years, because it works. Along with those age-old practices, Scientology and most cults engage in lots of “love bombing,” making the new recruit feel that they are a really special person who is appreciated inside the cult, and will be appreciated for their unique qualities like they never were in the outside world.

              And when it’s done right, that early experience adds to the “sunk cost” that keeps people stuck in the cult for a very long time.

              My comments that you replied to were based on lengthy conversations with a number of ex’s in the LA and Clearwater area who have sought me out over the last couple of years to share details of their stories with me. In all of these discussions, with people who have typically been in the cult for 20+ years, they have all been remarkably cynical about whether the “tech” works and whether they have gotten value out of their experience in the cult. They all said they did in the early days but had not for a long time. They all live in some degree of uneasy truce with the cult to avoid the consequences of disconnection on their business or on their personal relationships (many cited their kids’ potentially losing friends as a key issue). As a result of that, they are either “sideliners,” who have made it clear to the cult that they may occasionally do services, but under no circumstances will be giving any large donations to the cult, or the “under the radar” crowd, who give nominal sums to the cult regularly for the same reasons, but who have not told the cult to back off.

              These folks tend to hang out with others who are of the same outlook, and tend to stay away from the “gung ho” crowd of active Kool-Aid drinkers, who might write up Knowledge Reports or just piss them off by trying to get them to take more courses. That is the basis of my assertion that there are two camps in LA which are somewhat mutually exclusive.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Brilliant post, Mary. This is EXACTLY how it works. Thank you.

          • HyperionCorp

            Good point about the republicans… now it looks like they won’t even be able to carry Texas, in which case we probably won’t see a republican president for 20+ years

          • sugarplumfairy

            I love it.. I’m not going to be able to visualize dm at INT base now without adding many little, yellow, wise-ass minions..

      • Missionary Kid

        Disconnection is also important for DM because it keeps the clams from seeing that Leah has survived, along with her family.

        It is that restriction of information that will keep the sideliners in. If they don’t know that she is successful and happy, they won’t be tempted to do the same.

      • Bob

        John P, as usual your analysis is spot on. I can verify what you are saying as I am in the middle of it all. The unforeseen bonanza of bad press for the church and Leah’s tactful handling of her leave are going to weigh heavily on many clams. I am aware of many under the radar people. It’s like the French resistance in WW II. Miscaviage is more and more inheriting the boots of his German predecessor.

      • Zana

        I was astonished when I read about Lisa McPherson and first began to realize that maybe the tech did NOT work. That was jaw-dropping when I first realized that all that time and money may lead not only to nothing… but to gross mental and emotional problems. And then have it all blamed on me for not doing it correctly.

        What a swindle!

        • DodoTheLaser

          Same here, Zana. It was probably the first big red flag for me when I was in.
          Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences here.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Really good to have you back, John P.

    • richelieu jr

      All that you say is true, and many good people have been through both sides… Yet one salient fact remains:

      Who are your friends if not those you can count on WHEN YOU MOST NEED THEM?

      I have friends who when I really needed help always managed to be elsewhere or perhaps just at the great moment. They are still friends of mine, but let’s just say they are lower-case friends.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Your real friends are the ones who show up to help you move!

        • RMycroft

          Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

          • Sam Domingo

            LOL!

      • 1subgenius

        Friends are just enemies that ain’t got the guts to kill you.

        • FistOfXenu

          1sub, you channeling DM again?

        • DodoTheLaser

          I don’t often down vote, but when I do, I hope I missed the sarcasm somewhere.

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        When I became disabled, I really learned who my friends are. Many scurried away. But what’s happening to Leah also happened to me on a much smaller scale: I found friends I never knew I had, and became closer to others.

        • richelieu jr

          Sorry to hear you became disabled.. That is indeed difficult and not the time you want friends bailing on you (I lost my hearing FWIW)..

          I actually lost a lot f friends when I quit a quite cushy job with a TV network that gave me a good amount of pay reasonable creative freedom and plenty of time to pursue other contracts. I’d had it for several years, and I wasn’t a total idiot I knew some people around me were there because they thought they could get a gig through me or they wanted to work with me, or meet people around me, blah, blah, blah..

          I was partners with one of my very best friends, and I wasn’t sure that relationship would last (in fact preserving that relationship was one of the reasons I had to quit).

          I don’t regret the decision at all, even though I have never been in a position that good again and that was 25 years ago now. I had good reasons which weren’t necessarily apparent to others, and even when explained often seed pretty small next to the good sides of the job…

          So I knew ‘friends’ would bail, and I was interested to see whom… Only it wasn’t necessarily the ones I would have expected Some I thought were hangers on did indeed hang on (in a good way!) and are trusted friends to this day. Others I took to be people on the same journey as me, who would realize somethings can’t be overlooked or have price tag put on them, left.

          It was surprising, eyeopening, priceless lesson, and one I wouldn’t trade for anything.

          • John P.

            We in Global Capitalism HQ are similarly aware that we would lose many so-called “friends” in a heartbeat if we were to lose our exalted position. The supermodels would flee with nary a thank-you if I announced that I was going to give up the trappings of the lifestyle and live like the other 99.99% lives. I wouldn’t even have to sell the waterfront estate, just announce that I’m cutting back a little bit on the summer party schedule.

            Hell, if I were to charter the jet to make a little extra cash on the side, I am sure that some of the managing directors would never speak to me again. We are acutely aware that all the CEOs whose cell phones we have on speed dial, and who always pick up by the third ring would pretend they had never heard of us if we got out of the game.

            Ironically, most of us spend lots of time fantasizing about how pleasant life would be if we could somehow manage to get out, even if it meant we got “disconnected” from our acquaintances in our current existence. The moral of the story: I agree with Rich — be true to who you are; money and alleged friends will never make up for the pain of knowing that you sold out.

            Lliira, good for you for making a quality life with real substance when life dealt you a tough hand.

            • richelieu jr

              You know, I left this out because it was becoming so epic, but a lot of the ones I was surprised about left not because of the money, house, apartment, cars,parties etc, but because the fact that I had done such a thing shook them, somehow shook their confidence in their own careers but especially their confidence in me as someone who.. I’m not sure, really.. Always made the right decisions (hard t believe, still…)?

              Some literally seem to have thought I’d lost my mind, somehow…

      • Mary_McConnell

        Yes, in truth.. but the term ‘friends’ has a different meaning to a scientologist. See my reply to John P above for my explanation of that.

      • DodoTheLaser

        “Friend in need is a friend indeed.”

    • Vistaril

      [T]hey are indoctrinated to believe that their eternity and their relationships are at risk. They are
      afraid . . .

      Yep, there’s that, and then there’s all those lovely, juicy “overts” extracted during the hypnosis auditing sessions which are carefully written down by auditors to allow for subsequent inspection and collation by OSA for exactly this sort of situation. As L Ron Hubbard said back in the 1950s, a person need not worry about what information Scientology has gathered about them, provided the person remains a member in good standing, or silent.

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        And Scientology is able to convince victims that the outside world will be horrified and scandalized by something like having sex with one’s fiancé before marriage, making for more supposed “overts”.

        • Vistaril

          Sure, there’s all the sex stuff, and Scientology processing has a lot of coverage on the sexual stuff, but also carefully extracted and diligently noted by auditors, as per Standard Tech, are real, wog world crimes plus all manner of “whole track” crazy. I’m sure that by far the majority of people today aren’t going to judge a person by some adolescent sexual experimentation, but reading about, say, tax evasion and/or seeing a video of the person talking about piloting a UFO through a meteorite storm in the middle of a battle against Xenu’s forces . . . could be a bit tricky. Scientology would be unlikely to release the latter as it would probably rebound as clear evidence of the mindfuck the tech creates in a person, but the Scientologists probably don’t know that.

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            It’s not just sex (though LRH was shrewd enough to make basically all sex sinful so people could be ratted out for more things and the cult would make more money), but other mundane things like ill health which Scientologists are fooled into thinking are criminal.

            Looking at the hate sites Scientology has set up, and even their press releases, they have no clue what the outside world actually considers bad. They’ve lost anyone with the capability to spin things for people outside of Scientology.

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              They need to hire Nathan Thurm.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO5vCwytJO4

            • FistOfXenu

              Lliira, if Para$citology really wanna dead agent people that leave them, all they have to do is turn their strategy around. Something like “Leah Remini is an evil person. She’s practically a clone of David Miscavige. She’s as spiteful and hateful and stupid as him and if you let her be part of your wog world she’s gonna gift wrap you all and turn the whole world into David Miscavige’s personal slave labor camp.”

            • Casabeca

              Perfect solution!

            • FistOfXenu

              It’s the only way I can see the cult really attacking somebody’s reputation. But then she really could sue them for slander. After all what could ruin anybody’s reputation faster than being compared to Miscavige?

            • Casabeca

              I really loved your comment yesterday about finding the good in everyone. My family of origin has almost all the probs of sci org…disconnection, abuse, humiliation, threats, money issues, a narcissist and a borderline (diagnosed by docs, not just me). Exhausting and frustrating to say the least.
              I gained so much peace in life by realizing that people usually do the best they can with what they have. They did not go shopping for personality disorder, etc., it just is what it is. It does not mean we should leave empty of love people in charge tho!
              By lowering expectations and accepting the whole person, while not accepting abuse or even spending time alone with the difficult ones, I have found a serenity I never thot possible.
              Finding the good in others and accepting the journey is very compassionate of you. I think you are onto something very powerful! And I bet you use it at home since you have built a strong family with Mrs FOX, as I have with Mr Casa
              I love your comments and wish you very well on your journey!

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks Casabeca. It’s been a long road for me and I’m not there yet. 1st time I met the Para$citology problem seeing what they did to my buddies. It was all black and white to me. It’s been that way for yrs now. Then I saw things like how Andreas dealt with Tory. And now I’ve been at VV and here and I’ve been learning not every thing is as black and white as I thought. Especially people, they have to have a chance to change. I’m still learning what to do with that when it comes to some people. I don’t know about finding good in every body but I’m learning to think some people can change if we give them a chance.

              Sounds like you’ve been on your own trip through the same kind of thing. Good luck to you.

            • Casabeca

              I will admit I flinched when I read Geir Isene’s blog entry about how there was something good in COB…his intensity, if I remember correctly. Not there yet ;-). Thank you for the good wishes, and same to you always. I think of you and Howdy like favorite uncles at the Bunker.

  • richelieu jr

    While it is certainly not beyond those morons to falsify emails, it is a submission by a lawyer to the curt, so they would truly be insane to be doing so..

    Which is more likely: $cientology is doing that, or Culkin is whistling Dixie blowing which every way the wind blows, bending not breaking, bending to the point where auto-fellation becomes not only possible, but quite tempting…

    I see absolutely no reason to trust this guy, and every reason to see why he’d make such a good $cilon– Too much money and too little common sense, an inflated sense of self, and as sense pf truth and loyalty that allows him to make taped declarations with all sorts of huge declarations then sworn depositions for the opposing view, then get a lawyer because it’ snot fair that someone called him chicken!

    Theory:
    Culkin fell like a tower of Jello when $cientology offered his money back. He asked them to keep it secret, and they said,

    ‘Oh yeah, well, we’ll do our very best no problem’..
    The issue of the court filing came up. They said they’d do it, he said,

    ‘But then I’d be called as a witness and have to swear to this stuff and everyone would see me!”
    “Don’t worry, that’s a last resort! We just want them to know we have this”!
    “OK, well do your best, I really don’t wanna do that!”

    NEWS LEAKS: The Spit hits the Fan!

    People criticize him pretty much everywhere… He is very upset. Don’t they understand he had no other choice? He didn’t even want anyone to know. HE is called named, criticized and not at all admired for being younger, slimmer richer, more flexible and also more wise than all of us. Also he got his money back for free, and no one has done that like EVER!
    He runs to his pals at OSA with a bunch of internet links in hand. They lo at him. “You’re really freaked out, man! Are you?”
    ‘You bet I am! These people are crazy! They’re howling for blood, practically!”
    “Do you feel worried?”
    “You bet I do!”
    “Scared?”
    “Well.. yeah.”
    “OK we’ll get them to back off”

    “Culkin is a ‘Fraidy Cat’” Motion filed.

    He reads it. “This makes me look like a total wuss!”
    Looks at Tony’s blog “Look at all these names, ‘Wuss’, ‘douche’, ‘narcissist’, ‘traitor’, ‘scaredy cat’.. “This isn’t fair! I told them I didn’t want to do this, but that I would– Now they say I can’t because I’m afraid– Uncool!”

    Runs to OSA:
    “Take it back!”

    “We can’t. We did it for you!”

    “Well, it makes me look bad. Can you imagine? ME looking BAD!””
    “We’re sorry, it is a court filing. If we take it back now, it will hurt the case.”

    “Fine, then I’ll get it taken down!” “Erm, I wouldn’t do that, if I were you…”

    HE files his little thing.

    And there was much rejoicing.. In most quarters… People at Tony’s blog called him a hero.. Not a ‘young, rich, clever, flexible, wise and muscular’ hero– But it was a good start.

    Yet, he was, is, and will always be a DOUCHE.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Amen Cardinal!

    • Robert Eckert

      Any way the wind blows… Doesn’t really matter to me…. To me….

      • 1subgenius

        Frank Zappa.
        My fave on that album is “Trouble Every Day.”

        • Vistaril

          Queen – Bohemian Rhapsody, David Miscavige’s choice for the playing of “Musical Chairs”.

    • 1subgenius

      “…bending to the point where auto-fellation becomes not only possible, but quite tempting.”
      Now the whole yoga thing makes more sense…

      • Captain Howdy

        That was the first thing I thought of when I saw someone doing yoga.

      • McLovin_1982

        eewww! just eeewww!

      • junojones

        Now I’m thinking of Ron Jeremy. Thanks a bunch…

        • 1subgenius

          So then this is like any other day for you?

      • USA MRIID

        Great, you just made the insane dwarf all horney.

    • Captain Howdy

      BAM! There it is

    • Brett Allen Hensel

      “..not at all admired for being .. more flexible..”
      Outstanding.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Cardinal, I know douches.. I’ve been friends with lots of douches.. And you, Cardinal, are no douche expert..

      • Captain Howdy

        He’s French, they invented the douche, no?

        • richelieu jr

          Our douches make you feel invigorated and cleaner afterwards, not sleazy and like you want to slink off and cut your wrists…

    • GlibWog

      OMG I can totally see this playing out exactly that way.. ” Wah, Wah, Wah They’re pickin on me! This Will ruin me!! PS and I do the Spiritual Yoga Stuff and look Hot.

  • whingeybingey

    Tikk, do you think Ray Jeffrey was in possession of those facts when he filed as he did? I mean, do you think Brian is being fully honest even with his own lawyer? It seems extraordinary to me that he would have claimed Brian was naive and manipulated in such a strident fashion if he knew there were emails to discredit that position, but of course I am no expert.

    • pronoia

      It would be hard to imagine that any good lawyer would not ask for copies of all correspondence and agreements involving heir client. And one would hope that Culkin’s did just as he had been asked.

      A question which interests me is whether Culkin, as a non-party to the lawsuit, will be permitted,to have his own attorney at the deposition (if it ever happens)?

      • 1subgenius

        Reserving the right to be wrong, I believe one is entitled to the company of their lawyer in just about any such circumstance.
        I even shower with mine. Can’t be too careful.

        • whingeybingey

          Lol! Can’t be too clean either!

        • whingeybingey

          Lol! Can’t be too clean either!

        • ze moo

          Your lawyer can accompany and provide advice, etc to you at anything but grand jury testimony. Not sure I’d let one soap my back though. Unless it was Alley McBeal…

        • FistOfXenu

          I’m trying real heard not to imagine that.

      • whingeybingey

        That is a good question!

      • whingeybingey

        That is a good question!

    • t1kk

      I’d imagine Jeffrey did, and there’s certainly a better way to spin the exchange than how Scientology is spinning it. I think it’s entirely possbile that Culkin was naive and manipulated, but I tend to think he knew enough about what was going on around him. Or is simply not mentally sophisticated enough to understand or acknowledge the pricetag inherent in signing the declaration. He wanted to have it both ways and that wasn’t possible; to my mind, then, he’s either he’s dishonest about understanding that impossibility, or he’s spectacularly ignorant.

      • Watergate

        My continuing lack of empathy for Brian is due to his going to that CoS meeting without legal counsel. Ego, arrogance, ignorance.

        • Ruby

          Or even taking the document to his attorney to look at before signing. He already knew the church was criminal and dishonest, so he signs an agreement with them without having it checked?
          What’s that saying…”Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

      • whingeybingey

        Well, that’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks!

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        He spent nine months at Flag, when he went for a few weeks, he did no exercise during that time when he had been an athlete, and he gave them $350k after saying no and being heavily pressured over and over again. He is not a guy who has had to ever develop street smarts, and he is very naive and gullible. He was the perfect CoS victim. I have no doubt that he still doesn’t understand the reason for the declaration, but he was heavily “encouraged” to sign it, by a woman (and he is putty in a young woman’s hands, he admits), and he signed. I think he is spectacularly naive, and he was the perfect patsy before he hired Jeffrey. Since then, Pope and Miscavige have made a mess of the way they have handled the situation. I believe they didn’t see it coming. Nonetheless, Culkin could still turn on Jeffrey if the church pushes the right buttons, so if he has friends who can advise him of traps and tricks, they should do so.

      • USA MRIID

        “…or he’s spectacularly ignorant.”

        He allowed a fucking insane Dwarf to rook and swindle a third of a million bucks from him in less than a year. I’d say the stupidity and ignorance of the guy is already well confirmed.

    • Vistaril

      Good point. In fact, given Scientology’s predilection for “pan determined” control, there could be reason to entirely doubt Culkin’s motives for employing Ray Jeffrey. One of Scientology’s most successful pieces of {scripture} is to insert spies into networks opposed to it. Given his history thus far, Culkin appears to have the makings of an adequate spy.

      /tinfoil

      • MissCandle

        Good insight. Thanks.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    I wanna see Duggan bolt!
    I hope Davey is still not taking his calls.
    Celebrities walking away are great and this is a shit storm.
    But I would love to see the Whales start to walk away.
    Of course, If you have invested that kind of money in the scam…admitting you were duped is gonna hurt!

    • John P.

      Duggan is perhaps a unique case — given his recent score with Pharmacyclics, he can walk away from the $20 million he’s donated without much regret. While Duggan would probably fade quietly, just knowing that the biggest donor ever has left ought to be a landmark event that cult members would all know (but not dare speak of).

      Duggan’s situation is a sharp contrast to idiots like Richie Acunto (“Survival Insurance”) and all those dentists who have driven their business into the ground using WISE “management tech” in order to get the next bigger gaudy trophy at the IAS event, and when the business went bust, had no dry powder to sustain life. I vaguely recall hearing that Acunto is basically couch surfing these days, though I must point out that I could very well be remembering that inaccurately. Hell, even Matt Feshbach, who’s now in bankruptcy proceedings sounds like he’s pretty destitute (though I don’t discount the possibility that he’s got some money offshore that he’s hiding from the IRS, given that he now heads Okyanos Heart Institute, which just happens to be based in the Bahamas, an offshore tax haven, instead of on the US mainland, where the customers are).

      • BosonStark

        I agree that it would be great to see Duggan swim away, and lead some of the pod of whale clams with him.

        If any of the whales are in it because of the celebrity factor, which I think some must be, then it is only a matter of time before some notice something going on. But hey, I thought Tom Cruise not being able to clear his third wife would be enough. Could it be that their sunk-cost is so much higher that it makes it really difficult for them?

        Duggan has to consider which is worse — leaving and making it a little public, which would draw attention to him being involved in a nutty space cult? Or, just kind of fading away, drawing as little attention as possible.

        • Watergate

          Duggan’s in it because his wife is addicted to it and because he has long-time associations with long-time Scientologists. Remember that he was financial investment mentor to Reed Slatkin going way back.

        • John P.

          Could it be that their sunk-cost is so much higher that it makes it really difficult for them?

          Yes, for many of them, there’s a prohibitive sunk cost: the entire business model of some of these Scilon-owned companies depends on playing the rules of Scientology off against both customers and employees. Some of these insurance-based businesses such as Survival Insurance hire mostly (if not exclusively) clams, and pay them far less than the prevailing wage for those positions. They also tend to promise commissions for successfully using high-pressure sales tactics that never quite seem to materialize. And, of course, if the employees either sue or merely complain to the wage & hour agency, that’s breaking Scilon policy and they could get sec checked or declared. In other words, being a Scilon business employing clams is basically a license to steal from your employees, and robbing them of the ability to do anything about it. That’s the carrot. The stick is that if you get declared, all your Scilon employees will immediately quit, and you’ll find it a bit challenging to open for business the next morning; you’ll be out of business in hours.

          On the customer and supplier side, running a Scilon business that does business with other Scilons is a further license to steal by either overcharging and providing crappy service, or by failing to pay your bills and daring your suppliers to take action. Again, breaking out of the Scilon orbit will destroy your profits and cause all your Scilon customers to boycott you overnight. Most small businesses, particularly service businesses, can’t withstand even a 20% drop in revenue for very long without entering a death spiral.

          Duggan’s wealth coming from biotech is probably unique among the Scilon whales, because the number of Scilon employees and customers dealing with Pharmacyclics is pretty low. The number of people who would get a Ph.D. in biochemistry and then join the cult, or who would join the cult and then continue on to get a Ph.D. in biochemistry is statistically indistinguishable from zero. So he doesn’t have to worry about a customer boycott or an appreciable number of his employees quitting. Those on Wall Street who don’t already know that Duggan is a member of a bizarre flying saucer dead space cootie exorcising cult will forgive that oddity as long as he keeps hitting his revenue and EPS numbers. So he could get away with walking away without any economic consequences. But if, as “Watergate” says here, his wife is a True Believer, that could be enough to keep him in line.

          • V4Vacation

            Fascinating! The economic spiderwebs related to CoS is a topic I’m sure we’d all like to learn more about. I wonder if it’s possible, or how long it would take, for a whale to “earn back” their million dollar IAS donation by then using these commercial tactics such as slave labor and services not delivered or bills not paid, etc.

      • Observer

        Acunto is a really unfortunate surname.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Laughed out loud for realz….

        • Captain Howdy

          Fucking Austria and Acunto. I’m happy.

        • John P.

          Yes, his is one of the better examples of a phenomenon called “nominative determinism.” See the Wikipedia article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism

          • Observer

            Zing!

  • pronoia

    Christ on a raft! I followed the links to those emails which took me to blank page and somehow my ipad browser directed me to the cult website the Truth About Scientology! There is a link at the top I didn’t notice —WTF?

    • V4Vacation

      I don’t know, but “christ on a raft” is my new favorite exclamation. ;p

  • Racnad

    I was looking this morning at Scientology’s Code of Honor. Here it is, copied & pasted from scientology.org:

    1. Never desert a comrade in need, in danger or in trouble.
    2. Never withdraw allegiance once granted.
    3. Never desert a group to which you owe your support.
    4. Never disparage yourself or minimize your strength or power.
    5. Never need praise, approval or sympathy.
    6. Never compromise with your own reality.
    7. Never permit your affinity to be alloyed.
    8. Do not give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it.
    9. Your self-determinism and your honor are more important than your immediate life.
    10. Your integrity to yourself is more important than your body.
    11. Never regret yesterday. Life is in you today and you make your tomorrow.
    12. Never fear to hurt another in a just cause.
    13. Don’t desire to be liked or admired.
    14. Be your own adviser, keep your own counsel and select your own decisions.
    15. Be true to your own goals.
    Except for #2 and #12 (with the Church defining “just cause”) this flies in the face of Ethics and other Tech. How many people have been sent to Ethics, RPF or declared Suppressive for applying this in their lives?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      7. Never permit your affinity to be alloyed.
      Huh?

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Yes, it must stay pure. No added copper or nickel or iron.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Glad it wasn’t just me. I hate it when my Affinity tastes metallic.

      • Captain Howdy

        Forget it, your I.Q isn’t high enough.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Oh yeah, I fergot I too dumm to be a theetan.

          • Captain Howdy

            Likewise.

      • Racnad

        Dictionary.com on alloy as a verb: “to debase, impair, or reduce by admixture; adulterate”
        So in practice that means, “unless as instructed by your Ethics Officer.”

      • Ruby

        What it really means, BTN, is that when someone tells you to disconnect from your friend of 30 years, you should have the guts to say no and stick up for them because you love them and because real friends don’t do that to people they love. Obviously the church members do not understand this one either.

    • MissCandle

      Thanks for this post. It says a lot. I hope the few remaining members of that organization read this.

      • Ruby

        ok…this may not be the most popular thing to say here….but, I like this code. If one reads and learns to apply it against their OWN integrity, it really can be a good thing. Interestingly, ironically…because I liked this code and used it in that manner, i.e. for ME, it was what helped me make the decision to walk away from the church. I stopped compromising and making excuses with what I saw…I stopped making less of my strengths and thinking that someone else knew more or was better than me…and I walked out, because even tho it made others unhappy, the “just cause” was my own sanity and happiness. As far as withdrawing allegiance…I had to realize that I did not owe support to a group that was not the same one that I had joined years earlier…it had gone criminal and morphed into something I did not join.
        If others in can read this and truly apply it, from THEIR heart, and not as one dictates they should, it would be a good thing.

        • Ruby

          geez…I sound like I was a pathetic idiot! :) I like to think I wasn’t…just fooled like so many others. And this code is what helped me wake up and walk out.

          • V4Vacation

            You were eventually brave enough or objective enough to wake up and walk out, and that’s all that matters. I’m glad you’re out, and thanks for contributing here. :)

            • Ruby

              Thanks V!

          • CharlieWaters

            I wouldn’t say idiot at all. I could be wrong, but it seems that you saw the CoS behaving at odds with LRH policy and/or tech, obviously to soak people for more money. If this is the case, you wouldn’t be alone.

            Greg and Debra Barnes come immediately to mind when they came across an LRH reference that went against what the church was actually doing with their cases when they were on OT VII. (Greg Barnes was on OT VII for seven years.)

            Jason Beghe also comes to mind. He also saw the misuse of tech in regards to LRH policy.

            • Ruby

              Yes, Charlie…I have seen the story of the Barnes and that is was like…seeing, and finally saying I’d had enough of the BS end of things

        • V4Vacation

          Can you shed some light on what this one means:

          10. Your integrity to yourself is more important than your body.

          I’m just guessing here, but does it refer to focusing more on your “whole track” than on your current life (eternal spirit vs. “meat body”), or is it something more like, believe in Scientology even if it jeopardizes your mortal/physical self?

          • Ruby

            I do take it to mean eternal spirit vs. body. While I have never, thank God, ever been is a position that I think called for this, it may be something that perhaps a soldier would encounter, or some other life saving hero…our firefighters or police that will sacrifice their lives for another if faced with it.

            • V4Vacation

              Thanks.

    • Sherbet

      “Honor”? What is this “Honor” of which scientologists speak?

      • Captain Howdy

        ” Uh, your Honor..the church of scientology is a constitutionally protected..blah blah blah”

        • Sherbet

          Oh, THAT Honor. Got it.

    • Phil McKraken

      10. Your integrity to yourself is more important than your body.

      This is absolutely bonkers. But if you believe in it, you sure can be a useful tool for an ill-intentioned master.

    • batfink

      To me it reads –

      1-14: make money. make more money. make other people produce so as to make more money. (the hubster)
      15: never ever take your Co$ tinted glasses off in order to achieve 1-14. your eternity depends on it.

      …really sad thing.

      (I am not a native English speaker so my sincere apologies for any mistakes).

      batfink

      • sugarplumfairy

        you did good!

      • Observer

        Your English is perfect!

        • batfink

          thank you!!

    • sugarplumfairy

      The Girl scout code:

      On my honor, I will try to do my duty to God and country and to help other people at all times, except for l. ron hubbard, david miscavige and les grossman..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        And I have cookies!

        • sugarplumfairy

          I do make a mean snickerdoodle..

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Ooooh, I love those …as long as they are burnt!

        • SandiCorrena

          I’m still so glad you’re back I’m baking you a cake!

          • Robert Eckert

            Unfortunately PreferToBeAnon and TheHoleDoesNotExist are still sulking.

            • sugarplumfairy

              TheHole too? Dammmmmm……

            • Captain Howdy

              Huh? THDNE was just here yesterday. Let this thing lie.

            • Robert Eckert

              Oh good, I must have missed THDNE’s post. Hope P2BA gets well soon.

            • SandiCorrena

              So I always make homemade Pepperoni Bread for my loved ones, my step father always said he’d dis-own me if I didn’t ;), so maybe I can entice them with that…..

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Hugs!

            Edit: I just wish PTBA would come back too. Especially since it was just a misunderstanding.

    • Vistaril

      Nos. 12 is a really doozy . . .

      Never fear to hurt another in a just cause.

      • Captain Howdy

        That’s # 2 on the Al-Qaeda Code of Honor

    • HyperionCorp

      At least LRH is reliably nauseatingly awful. His sociopathy always shines through in his writing.

      • Observer

        That and his Jupiter-sized ego.

    • Observer

      I wonder how #8 would stand up if you were on the receiving end of an ethics action.

      • FistOfXenu

        Obs, it would be a lot of fun to try it if the $cientologist has the cajones. “I don’t desire communication with you. Piss off”

  • Jeb Burton

    I woke up and was looking forward to a COS free morning, making an omelet and watching the British Open.. No Scions playing as far as I know, just mostly country club republicans. A lot of big names at the top of the leaderboard. And then I take a quick peek at the bunker. and my plan is shot. Cant help but to read all the comments from your “religious bigots”. Damn you Tony.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m a religious bigot wog. How about that?

    • 1subgenius

      Thanks for reminding me about the Open.

  • donnie harold harris

    Sound like a Real nice Cleansing to me. Shack off those BT<S .False freindship is the hardest to detect.Here is an OT 8 Maxuim.To the degree one now attacts and enemy is to the degree He himself is Wrong.Becoming the 8Th dynamic one becomes both sides .Them Creatively changes the creation.Simply put you become then recreate things…..Thanks Mom..

  • Roger Larsson

    Idiots exist and a tech making them exist. Idiots yet unclear can be made clear.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I’ve heard it said that we’re lucky if we have two or three true friends in our life.. Sounds to me like Leah is already above average in the friend department.. Good for Michelle for coming to the defense of her friend.. I hope more do the same..

    As for rocket scientist and singer Stacy.. Lol.. “don’t be cryptic”? She needs to check her little lrh scientology word clearer.. There was NOTHING “cryptic” about any of Nicole’s comments..

    And Scott’s take on Culkin’s situation is helpful, as usual.. I especially appreciated his grand finale.. I’m pretty sure I’ll be stealing that…

  • Mimi Armagh Parrow

    Team Remini 100% Suck it Scientology

    • Missionary Kid

      You sound like Kathy Griffin.

      • Artoo45

        Which prompts the question “where is Kathy Griffin?” This melee should be like a siren call to her, and I, for one, can’t wait for her to chime in . . .

        • Missionary Kid

          KG already has enough material to flame them. This will be napalm for her, if she chooses to use it.

  • SandiCorrena

    Meanwhile under the heading [Pretty Is As Pretty Does]:

    Kirstie Alley‏@kirstiealley10h

    good night… life is short …don’t be a fuckwit

    • MissCandle

      OMX is all I can say about such a fuckwit.

    • Missionary Kid

      She should take her own advice.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Davey could send Laurisse over to Kirstie’s house to break her twitter finger….
      Naw,…. tweet away Madame Vagina Jumper!

      • ze moo

        I laughed my head off when I saw the vagina jumper line. Oh that Krustie…..

        • sugarplumfairy

          I bet she learned that in a bull-baiting session.. Probably paid at least $1200 for that line..

      • Missionary Kid

        She needs to keep going, because she’s helping all of the anti-s.

    • Lark Smith

      self-talk?- technique often used to soothe oneself.

    • Observer

      She should take her own advice.

      • Missionary Kid

        Jinx. You owe me a Coke. See my comment an hour ago. ;D

        • Observer

          D’oh!!! *uploads Coke”

          • Missionary Kid

            Tastes good. Thanks. It’s a case of great (or not so great in my case) minds think alike.

  • ze moo

    Why would the clams pay for a what is a gossip story on a paid for ‘press release’ web site?? They link Katie Holmes and Krustie Ally to ‘knowledge reports’ they wrote up on Leah Remini. Does adding Holmes muddy the water about Krustie?? Who would pay to put this on the web?? I can’t see a ‘competent’ clam paying for it and no one else cares enough to spend money on what has been reported before.

    $cientology, when a foot shotgun is not enough lead….

    http://www.watchlistnews.com/2013/07/19/katie-holmes-reportedly-tied-to-leah-reminis-scientology-defection/

    • Sidney18511

      Maybe, just maybe, if the put Katie Holmes in the middle of this fiasco, she might open her mouth and spill a couple of beans.

      • ze moo

        Possible, but Katie’s ‘child support’ could be at risk. If she hasn’t opened up by now, I don’t think she will. The whole thing smells of stupid…..

      • Robert Eckert

        Katie has strong motivations to leave well enough alone.

        • sugarplumfairy

          She has money and she’s related to lawyers.. She’s in an ideal position to do the right thing.. Cruise does not want a custody battle.. Think of the absolutely amazing court testimony there would be about the treatment of children in co$..

          Come on , Katie! You KNOW what goes on in there.. Don’t turn a blind eye! Join the fray! Help make it right! It takes an army..

          • Robert Eckert

            “Cruise does not want a custody battle.” Holmes doesn’t either. It’s like the cease-fire line on the Golan Heights.

            • HyperionCorp

              I’m repeating myself, but I think Katie is in the driver’s seat, and got everything she wanted out of the divorce. Cruise was bilndsided, and she clearly had a strong case against him.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I agree.. I was addressing the risks she would be taking if she spoke out against co$..

            • Captain Howdy

              Exactly. And no one knows what possible dirt there maybe in Katie’s pc folder. Her first concern is maintaining the image of a “fit” mother so Cruise doesn’t try to get custody of Suri on that accusation. If she dishes dirt I’m sure so will he.

            • RMycroft

              Speaking of dirt, what does she have that made Tom Cruise and his lawyers fold like wet cardboard after 11 days?

            • pronoia

              First hand knowledge of how he and the cult actively did all they could keep his 2 older children separated from their mother Nicole Kidman.

            • RMycroft

              That’s something that could be debated in court, with a lot of he said/she said. Even without going to court, his lawyers would have fought it. Whatever Katie had couldn’t be debated, couldn’t be fought, and definitely couldn’t be made public. Tom surrendered almost right away, and the rest of the time was spent discussing terms.

              Maybe it was as simple as two words: Paternity test.

            • pronoia

              I think my point is that neither he nor the cult would want to see it even brought up in court. Along with a whole host of other abusive weirdness perpetrated on TCs children by him and the church, such as jr sec checks. Paternity test would’ve been the least of his worries since by law he would be the legal father, DNA or not.

            • Captain Howdy

              Proof that Suri is the Moonchild?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Katie is white bread.. I’d bet my pinky toe she’s never done anything worse than smear her lipstick on Tom’s superbeing cape..

          • HyperionCorp

            Custody battle? My impression is that she got everything she asked for in the divorce. Apparently, she had Cruise totally surprised and off balance. Since Kaite had been planning the divorce for months without his knowledge, I doubt there are any loopholes.

            • Observer

              OT, but Mr. Observer and I will be cooperatively attempting to take down your CEO in a little while. Nothing personal.

      • HyperionCorp

        I agree, and she is in an excellent position to do that. If anything, it will strengthen her position, which was primarily to keep Suri away from the crazy cult and its vice-pope, Tom Cruise.

      • pronoia

        All she has to do is to follow Leah’s lead and issue a statement that she has never wished Leah any will. And that any past misunderstandings regarding her wedding are just unfortunate misunderstandings.

        • Phil McKraken

          Bottom line for Katie Holmes. There is no upside to her, personally or professionally, to ever utter anything in public about these tawdry goings-on, ie, anything Scientology related. Remember, she is most famous as Tom Cruise’s ex-wife and not well known to the public as an ex-Scientologist. It would be damaging to her public persona to further associate herself with Scientology than she already is. You will hear nothing from her, at least not for 20 years, and I don’t blame her.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Katie is credible.. Kirstie is a bubble headed asshole.. Even co$ knows it..

  • scnethics

    LEAVING SCIENTOLOGY FAQs
    A Practical Guide From The Church of Scientology

    Q: Is it OK to leave the Church of Scientology?
    A: Don’t believe everything you read! It’s actually fine to leave the Church!

    Q: Are there any valid reasons for leaving the Church?
    A: Absolutely! Here is the complete list: 1. Embarrassing Criminal
    Arrest and/or Conviction 2. Permanent Destitution and Inability to
    Work 3. Dead or Dying 4. Unable to Keep Your Mouth Shut

    Q: How can I be sure I’m doing the right thing?
    A: You can’t! You may be surprised to find that the things you think you’ve seen that are steering you away are delusions caused by overts you’ve committed as a result of hidden evil purposes. Please, give us a few months and $300,000 so we can take a look-see, hmmm?

    Q: Do I need to let people know I’m leaving?
    A: No! We will prepare a helpful packet of information, and share this with individuals as needed.

    Q: Can I selfishly hold on to my many friends and family within the Church?
    A: Sorry. The network of friends and family you enjoyed while in the Church belong to the Church, and we no longer wish to share them with you.

    Q: Can I have my folders containing all of the secrets I shared over the years?
    A: LOL!

    Q: What else do I need to know?
    A: This is the biggest mistake you’ve ever made in your life. Please don’t join TM, that just pisses us off (I mean if they can get you, why couldn’t we keep you, right?). And if there is anything we can do to blackmail or bribe you back into submission, please let us know!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      “Please don’t join TM, that just pisses us off ”
      BAAHAAAHAAAA

      • Lark Smith

        ROLF!!!!! Hey, they teach people to fly (okay, hop in the lotus position, they have to do this on very thick padding otherwise they would never be able to reproduce). I thank my Bliss Ninny mother for that odd childhood memory. Ah, Iowa in the summer good times.

    • Sherbet

      I think these FAQs should be engraved on stainless steel tablets instead of lrh’s garbled garbage.

  • nottrue

    cuikins credibility has come under question. why thats just bombastic

  • j238

    Now I know who Stacy Francis is. Wish I didn’t.

    • GlibWog

      Stacy Francis.. Ugh.. Google Stacy Francis is a Liar and see what comes up.

  • Observer

    OT, but this is too good not to share. I’m shooping Stacy Francis (I imagine she won’t feel flattered), and in my search for images I stumbled across this bit of MTS3K-worthy cheese. According to the caption it’s an early display for the What Is Scientology? book. I’ve attempted to attach the one after it in the slideshow but this being Disqus there’s no telling if it will work. If not, here’s the link: http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/scientology-dianetics-l-ron-hubbard-self-help-psychology-psychiatry-christian-apologetics-1

    Hey! It worked!

    • CharlieWaters

      Wow. Adjectives that could be used describing these pictures: funny, disgusting, scary, and absurd. They all work!!!

      Patiently awaiting the Stacy Francis shoop. Hopefully she’ll be crying and looking divalicious.

    • pronoia

      It looks like something right off the cover of one of Elizabeth Clare Prophet’s books! Ascended Masters and all that crap.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Wow.. Look at all the beards.. Those things could house a heck of a lot of body thetans..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        And Mustard.

        • pronoia

          Ascended Mustard!

          • sugarplumfairy

            Now I want a hot dog..

            • MO Mom

              Wait ’til Tuesday. $1 dogs at Sonic

    • nottrue

      thats pukeable

      • Observer

        I’m still laughing … I’ve gotta work these into a shoop somehow.

        • cicely neville

          Obs, we are absolutely depending on you to deliver the shoop! Can you put Yoda in the lineup? Snoopy? Klick and Klack, the Tappet Brothers? (They’ve got beards – at least, one does) I mean, you’ve got to get everybody who ever said a word of wisdom in so we can see that Sci’s are SMARTER THAN ANYONE WHO EVER LIVED – oh, and that includes Ayn Rand, who made the same claim. So they’re smarter than her. So there.

      • Anonymookme

        And delusional

      • nottrue

        i think one is gerry smith ceo narcanon arrowhead

    • Mark

      Blech! It’s like they’re channelling a horrid multiple entity of Kinkade, the Summit Lighthouse, Mormon ‘iconography’, cheap oleographs of Hindu gods, and Mabel Lucie Attwell, all coated in oodles of corn-syrup.

      The next one in the series probably saw the $ci-cross transform into DM’s backside.

      • ze moo

        I like Elvis on black velvet more. Or dogs playing cards….

        • Mark

          Or crying clowns…

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            nix crying clowns…

            • Observer

              Stacy Francis just disappeared!

      • Captain Howdy

        Did someone say “Kinkade”?

        • Mark

          George Pal lives!

          • Captain Howdy

            I was watching Robinson Crusoe on Mars last night and I had forgotten they use Pal’s spaceship FX from War of the Worlds. Good movie, but I thought it was kind of tacky the way they just reused his stuff.

            • Mark

              I gather the original (Oscar winning) WOTW effects cost a fortune, so Paramount were bound to recycle them somewhere. For me, ‘Robinson Crusoe on Mars’ has one superbly spooky moment, where Crusoe comes upon an alien mine, and has to hide from George-Pal type war machines zipping around overhead in an unnervingly UFO-like manner.

    • Captain Howdy

      Also from “What Is Scientology”, this classic showing a scientologist standing head and shoulders above Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        The Ten Commandments, and Moses, way down that mountain……

        • cicely neville

          How about “Thou shalt do no murder” (Lisa. Kyle. Alex. Stacy Dawn…)

          ” Thou shalt not steal” (Leonard Michael Tilse)

          “Honor thy father and thy mother” (Cindy Plahuta)

          Just for starters.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Good points

      • Observer

        Was this taken by Source himself? It sure looks like one of his “masterpieces.”

      • Nevermore

        Jesus and Buddha probably don’t mind, but I suspect Mohammed would be right up there, laying the smack down! (With apologies to any Moslems who may be reading this).

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          Oh, I think Jesus would mind. He went apeshit over hypocrisy and money taking over the temple and rich people who did not put helping the poor as a top priority. A religion that is based on making money and on the idea that if someone’s hurting for any reason, it’s their own fault, so don’t help them? That’s based on the idea that it is good for the rich and powerful to have their way while the meek can just suck it? Jesus would have, at the very least, extremely scathing words for Scientology.

          • cicely neville

            Hell yeah, he would mind!
            very well put, Lil. Wish i could have said something myself, but was occupied throwing up.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Where’s Jefferson? Imma smack him..

        Jk.. I know that’s not Jefferson’s..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Is that Laurisses husband?

        • Captain Howdy

          huh?

        • pronoia

          laurisses husband died of MS, horribly, painfully and all alone while in the rpf under big blue.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Yes, I know, but I believe that is Uwe in the picture and Marc Headley is playing the role of Jesus.
            Seriously.
            I think Marc pointed it out on WWP or here or somewhere.

            • pronoia

              Oh God. I missed the point entirely. I didn’t realize there were “real” recognizable people in that picture and thought you were joking about it being Laurisse’s husband–perhaps not realizing what happened to him. So it really is Uwe. Very sad.

              And Marc as Jesus – oh dear!

      • GlibWog

        He looks like a Host of a Restaurant with the Menu in his hand? ” Jesus?” Party of One

        • Sherbet

          Very, very funny, GlibWog. Mr. Sherbet asked what I was laughing loudly about.

          • GlibWog

            Oh Sherbet I just couldn’t resist. Those Scillyloons are just too Easy.. They just make it Too Easy I’m tellin ya..

        • cicely neville

          Bwahahahahaha^^^^Have some more up arrows with that.

      • Casabeca

        After I think about your posts for a while, I then start bookmarking sites, going down rabbit holes that start at Wikipedia, etc…is there any subject in which you are not very conversant? Thank you for the extra education!
        I am probably your opposite in many ways. I am mostly a tea-totaler, never took drugs, never curse, and long and happily married. I hate horror movies…they make me anxious! My jobs were all pink collar in teaching young children , often in churches, and doing teacher training at a community college. Was born into a fairly rich, hardcore republican family ( but I recovered from that ;). ).
        I really appreciate what you share and your distinctive POV.
        Thanks Howdy!
        As rich jr would say, “Vive la difference !”

    • FistOfXenu

      Except for the cult symbols they could be from Watch Tower magazine.

      • cicely neville

        Funny, I noticed that too. Clean-cut white types, in ’50′s technicolor.

  • Observer

    Stacy Francis’ tweet absolutely disgusts me. Michelle’s comparison of Leah’s “friends” to roaches was apt.

    • Anonymookme

      I agree. The analogy of card carrying Sciloon Kool Aid slurpers to scurrying cockroaches is perfect!

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Mel Gibson is a pariah in Hollywood, and elsewhere, because he is a bigot, but Stacy Francis, Kirsty Alley, and dozens of others in Hollywood think it is acceptable to treat Leah Remini and her family with hatred and contempt because they leave a church? This is classic bigotry!

    Also, is Stacy Francis’s reference to “bulimic” the first volley by the church of confidential information from Leah’s personal PC files? How convenient, leak confidential information through a “celebrity” who believes publicity, even bad publicity, is good for her career.

    • pronoia

      I thought the bulimic reference was directed at Nicole? but it doesn’t matter — whether or not the reference was gleaned from pc folders, it is not ethical to reveal anything that was shared in confidence under the rubric of friendship.

      • Anonymookme

        What is “ethical” you speak of? I’m pretty the actual definition of “ethical” will not be found in any Sciloon dictionary

        • pronoia

          I was refering to ethical in the real world sense of the word. It is just plain wrong to say something like that about somebody — particularly if they were EVER a friend.

  • Observer

    Oh, and re: Brian Culkin … all I can think of is this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU

  • Lawrence

    Members of the Church of Scientology are distrustful of anyone that trusts them. This is a fact unique to this church. A surprise to people because the Church of Scientology promotes itself as THE only people on Earth today that can through L. Ron Hubbard’s technology routinely restore people’s abilities to trust, understand and fully love each other and rid the world of crime, war and insanity calling itself the fastest expanding religion on the planet. No other church has ever made such a written claim. If this is so, then why are so many people complaining that the Church of Scientology is involved in so much wrongdoing they didn’t know about before? Can all the people that are complaining be insane perhaps or liars except for the members of the church? Even the United States government has formally charged the church with illegally spying on them as early as the late 1970′s! I was never worried about me trusting the Church of Scientology, I was really concerned though about WHY the church would trust a person like me for if I had gone there to go Clear! Pretty self-explanatory! So it can be a two way street and in most cases one that turns out to be a dead end for the church. But even so, how many people in the world truly enjoy being told they are going to receive counseling from the church that is going to raise their IQ, and make them a well and happy person only to discover the church delivered a substitute to them that produced no such thing, but it can be fixed if the person is just willing to donate an extra $72,000.00 more and if they don’t donate the extra money they will be barred from any future services? How many people are willing to experience this even once? No one is! But, the Church of Scientology likes to take it for granted that people are willing to and the next few years in history will contain many important facts pertaining to the Church of Scientology’s downfall.

    • Vistaril

      In addition, the church claims it can rid the world of crime, war and insanity. . .

      Scientology is itself an on-going organised international criminal conspiracy to defraud, controls its members by constantly being “at war” and endlessly creating enemies, and frequently drives individual members into insanity. Hugely ironic, in a graveyard humour kind of way.

  • Sherbet

    When the cos says disconnection is the choice of the individual and not church policy, shouldn’t they really say (if they were an honest church) that disconnection is abhorrent in a religion of peace and inclusion? Instead of saying “If disconnection exists in the church in some form, it’s merely a personal choice among our parishioners,” their statement should be “Unfortunately, disconnection exists among our parishioners, but we as a church condemn it.” Substitute the word “racism” for “disconnection,” and it becomes clearer.

    The obvious answer to my rhetorical question is, cos doesn’t condemn disconnection, because it encourages it, regardless of what is “clearly spelled out on its website,” or whatever Karin Pouw said.

    • Sam Domingo

      What exactly did Karen Pouw say? (evil grin – here it comes).. Because when she was sending PMs to my ex husband urging him to disconnect from me and report back to her on my movements she seemed to be quite happy with the whole disconnection thing. Likewise when she and her cronies had him hauled in and threatened him with excommunication if he didn’t comply. By the way she likes to call herself ‘KP’. Or at least she did in her PMs. Doesn’t that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Hey ‘KP’ – how’s the nose growing?

      • Sherbet

        Sam, it was the church’s response to the Remini flak. I’ll see if I can dig up the quote.

      • Sam Domingo

        I do so love having this ‘comm line’ to OSA. So much fun! Thanks Tony :D

        • Sam Domingo

          Incidentally if this ever hits a court room I’m more than happy to testify. And I can provide the whereabouts of a number of others – some may be reluctant to testify (such as my ex for example) but… well – y’all know where to find me if you need me. Not like I’m hiding or anything. Right Davey?

      • Sherbet

        “A Scientology spokesperson issued this statement to Radar about Nicole and her claims from the Cruise wedding plus other charges that Scientologists have been told to ‘disconnect’ or break ties with Leah…’Contrary to myths spouted by… anti-Scientologists, the Church cannot and does not “order” any parishioner to disconnect. Such a decision always has been and remains a deeply personal choice made entirely by the individual. This has been spelled out clearly on our website for years.’”

        Now I’m not sure it was “KP” who said it, but maybe one of the other Bunkerites knows.

        • Sam Domingo

          It’s OK. I’m playing. I know exactly what dear ‘KP’ has said and where and when she’s said it. I like to keep track of her lies so if she ever has the misfortune to find herself meeting with me face to face I can deal with the smack-down personally.

          • Observer

            Ooo, if the opportunity arises be sure to wear one of those hidden spy video cameras! I’d pay to see footage of that!

            • MissCandle

              Sam, I agree with Observer, but please don’t use the tampon spy camera.

          • Robert Eckert

            How long has it been since anyone saw Karin face to face?

            • 1subgenius

              I’ve been wondering for a while.

        • John P.

          The quotes around “order” are what gives the lie to their own statement. They may “strongly suggest as an alternative to losing your eternity,” but they are careful to avoid using the word “order.” The effect is the same, though the wording is slightly different. And of course, nobody is fooled.

          • Bella Legosi

            Whenever a group or a person insists on using the very definition of a word like “order”; like Co$ does in the case of the disconnection policy, it only makes them out to be legalistic worms! I hate it when a group or person splits hairs. It really doesn’t serve any good purpose. The way I see it, when Co$ says they never have “ordered disconnection” and imply that it is solely up to the person to do so is just a phonetic technicality! I always wonder, “Wow, so your faith is so fragile you have to disown family and friends? Tell me again why is your faith so EASILY shaken? And why is it ok for a ‘church’ to accept a policy or action that destroys family’s and a person’s core support system?”

            • Captain Howdy

              Scientologists are the Kings/Queens of semantic pedantic literalistic obfuscating weasel word games.

      • stateofcircle

        Sam, is your story written down anywhere? I’ve watched a few videos where you spoke (always awesome job by the way), but I don’t know much about your exit, and since I’m a nosey sucker for a good story, I’d love to read it and know more. If it’s not out there, no big deal…and if anyone else has any links it’s mucho appreciated. Thanks!

        • Sam Domingo

          LOL! I’m on it! Just took me a few years to figure out where to even start :)

          • Sam Domingo
            • Sam Domingo

              And I’m about to take a long break in Ireland so I reckon I’ll have most of it done by September :)

            • SandiCorrena

              I will pre-order!! Can’t wait!

            • GlibWog

              Oh Sam sounds fabulous… Relax and just Soak up your Life being out. I would love to read your book also. Cheers to your strength ..

        • Sunny Sands

          KP is short for kitchen patrol where I come from, usually means a dish washer. That’s where she probably is now anyway, on the RPF scrubbing pots.

  • Sam Domingo

    I’m amazed Brian Culkin left the cult. He could have had so many friends who would understand him. He’ll never make it out here where being a weathercock isn’t tolerated.
    Leah and family – this is the worst part. Marty Rathbun told me once that people who leave the Church have to walk the long dark valley of death alone – sounded dramatic to me but having walked that walk now I understand what he was saying. What he didn’t tell me was just how bright the sunshine is at the other end – but I guess none of us knew that back then :) Keep going. The hardest part is almost over xxx <3
    Michelle – that's real friendship right there. Thanks for the demonstration. 'Scientologists' I hope you're taking notes – some of you nuckleheads might learn something.

    • Artoo45

      Leah’s future’s so bright, she’s gotta wear shades . . . she just doesn’t know it yet. I don’t think any of the Scilebrities get how massive and positive the reaction from their fans would be if they vocally blew the cult. That said, most non-celebrities have no idea what it’s like living in the toxic brew of money, constant scrutiny, power one day, and powerlessness the next, of celebrity. It’s mind and soul-warping and few survive it unscathed. It’s one of the reasons celebrities are such easy marks for Hubbard’s tripe, they think it offers stability, but as the good general said . . .

    • Kim O’Brien

      i am afraid to ask ..but i’m gonna …what is a weathercock ? And …has he gone poof over at Marty’s or is he still in the fold ?

      • Observer

        It’s a weathervane

        • Kim O’Brien

          whew …i thought so but i just wanted to make sure. The other image was bad . Very bad

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s called that because a rooster is often used as the symbol that weathervanes. Rooster = cock.

            • Kim O’Brien

              aw man …now i have an image of a big weathervane shaped as an actual cock . I need a date

            • Missionary Kid

              Kim, you’re just too horny. To quite the bible, “To the pure, all things are pure.” ;-)

              It’s a friggin’ chicken that’s male! In the bible, you have a reference to the cock crowing. The term weathercock means a weather vane with the figure of a rooster on it. Here’s some pictures: https://www.google.com/search?q=weathercock&client=firefox-a&hs=001&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PRLrUaLkKIqxigLU7ICACg&ved=0CD0QsAQ&biw=1072&bih=609

            • Kim O’Brien

              don’t get me started on the bible …you think i am horny now …that book is nothing but porn baby…only ONE virgin in all of the land ?? And Solomon could keep it UP ..he had over 100 wives i think …i am off to read me some leviticus ;)

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s like I said, to the pure, all things are pure. :D

              Is sounds like you just picked out the sex and ignored all the fire and brimstone. What a laugh. As I’ve said before, when I was about to make out (anachronistic term) with a woman in college, as I dimmed or turned out the lights, I’d paraphrase the second half of John 3:19, “…and men loved darkness because their deeds were evil.” They’d laugh.

      • Captain Howdy

        A fop who thinks he’s cock of the walk.

        • Observer

          You should just come right out and say “David Miscavige.”

    • MissCandle

      Are you on the radio right now?

      • MissCandle

        I have my computer set to the God Discussion radio for the 3 p.m. Kyle Brennen program, and am listening now (1:20 p.m.) to Sam and 2 others discuss Tom Cruise’s visit to Ireland and S-Lying-Tology. Excellent discussion so far. Just now discussing disconnection and abortions.

        • MissCandle

          Nevermind, wrong computer tab. I had clicked on sam’s link. Sorry friends.

    • Sunny Sands

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Brian left because he ran out of money. Scientology usually likes to string you along until they have it all.

  • Doug Parent

    “I just hope the people who truly do love her will come to their senses.” Coming to ones senses is the first step, but managing the attacks from the *church* as a result of “coming to ones senses” is another thing entirely. This is why you have empty buildings because people have already voted with their feet. The very minute you inform the church that you are in opposition to their ATTACKS on your friends or family, you become the object of the same onslaught. By attacks I mean, actions that are known to have a detrimental effect on ones life. The churches main weapon is destroying or cutting AFFINITY and COMMUNICATION for ones friends or loved ones. It’s actually an example of what Scientologists ought to identify as SUPPRESSION. So, what you have is the Church of Scientology being outright SUPPRESSIVE to it’s own members and using THREATS and DOMINATION and NULLIFICATION as a means. I had a friend when I was in Scientology, who was concerned about my upset with the church. She was relying on a reference by Hubbard that sought to explain the reason for my upset and wanting to leave. She was told by the church in Hollywood that if she remained in contact with me, she would be risking her “spiritual eternity”. So a friend I had for years suddenly dropped me like a hot potato. Shellah was flat out bullied. Once Scientologists learn that there are Independent Scientology groups and centers where they can get the entire “bridge to total freedom” at a fraction of the price, then they have zero reason to put up with the insanity anymore. L Ron Hubbard cancelled disconnection in Nov 15 1968. Disconnection does not exist in the Independent Scientology movement. If Scientologists want to pursue Scientology as written and developed by the founder, L Ron Hubbard, they now have a clear choice.

    • RMycroft

      As I understand, the only copy of that policy letter cancelling Disconnection was the one submitted to the Commision of Enquiry into Scientology in New Zealand (The Dumbleton-Powles Report).

      In other words, it was all smoke and mirrors for public relations purposes. (Unless someone can show that it ever made it into the Admin volumes.)

      • Doug Parent

        Not sure if I can link it here, but apparently it was in OEC VOl 1.

        http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_policy-letter_historyb.html#codereform

        • RMycroft

          I don’t consider Michel Snoeck to be the most reliable of sources. He has a habit of distorting his information to suit his conclusions.

      • Vistaril

        Disconnection was never cancelled. What was changed was that the requirement to disconnect was made the responsibility of the individual concerned rather than “a condition” of Scientology itself. It still applies that a person connected to a PTS or SP must either handle or disconnect if progress on the Bridge to Xenu is to be made. Scientology apologists love to believe that it was disconnection itself which was cancelled. Not true.

        The policy letter concerned (HCOPL 15 November 1968 “Disconnection Cancelled) was written after concern about disconnection was expressed during hearings into an enquiry in New Zealand, which resulted in the 1969 Dumbleton-Powles Report. Before the report was published, Scientology hurredly wrote the policy letter as proof that it has listened to the concerns and taken steps to address them. The policy letter was never properly distributed within Scientology and, needless to say, the practise continued unabated. What did change, though, was that any further “tech” concerning disconnected was classified “confidential” and hidden from public view until such time a brave Exes delivered DOX. Here’s one . . .

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Doug, thanks for posting. I’ve enjoyed your comments.

      I’ve got a serious question though. I can’t wrap my brain around how the Indy crowd views Hubbard. I know you can only speak for yourself, but what is it about him that makes you stay with his “teachings”. I mean, there’s such an overwhelming amount of evidence against the guy and most of what he claimed. He really didn’t have all, if any, of the answers he boasted about. I’m not attacking your beliefs, just struggling to understand how you work through the evidence. I feel like 2 + 2 still = 5 for the Indy participants.

      • Vistaril

        The Indies, and their Free Zone counterparts, are still able to sustain their belief in things like Engrams and Body Thetans by “differentiating” the “tech” from “policy” and both those things from the person of L Ron Hubbard. Supplementing that is their own subjective experience of Scientology wherein they credit any and all benefits in their lives to Scientology materials and processing in a jumbled cacophony of cognitive dissonance and a confusion between correlation and causation. The post-hypnotic euphoria and dissociation produced by auditing has a powerful and long lasting effect and, pretty much, provides the basis of the “certainty” Scientologists maintain in the effectiveness of the “tech”. Making things worse is that much of L Ron Hubbard’s entry-level processing, while hypnotic in nature and designed largely to produce obedience, does produce some benefit in some people. This is hardly surprising in that much of the material at the lower levels was stolen from other, somewhat effective practises and so a kind of collatarel benefit is fraudulently accrued to Scientology. Study Tech, although deletorious in its long term application, provides a simple example: using a dictionary. Still, even Study Tech was largely stolen from Virginia Waddy.

        These days, through gritted teeth, Indies will go so far as to admit that L Ron Hubbard “was just a man”, some will even admit that he had significant character flaws. However, the Indies assert that L Ron Hubbard’s work amounts to “discoveries” and processes which, if properly applied, will result in the enhancement of practical abilities and spiritual gains. An argument often put forward to support this is a comparison between L Ron Hubbard and Sir Isaac Newton. The latter was far from a perfect human being, he was actually a total shit, but, and here’s the rub, Newton’s work can be independently verified mathematically, by observation, and in its practical application to all manner of things. L Ron Hubbard’s work, on the other hand, and as you highlight, has zero evidence, has never been independently verified, and the only practical use to which it can be put is in tricking people to hand over money.

        There’s nothing wrong with the Indies believing what they believe and, in large part, these days when it comes to attracting new people, then caveat emptor applies. The problem is, however, that the Indies are seeking to attract people fresh out of Scientology before they have had an opportunity decompress and obtain the information required to provide informed consent. How many, for example, would continue Scientology if they knew there was no such thing as an Engram or a Reactive Mind or a Clear or Body Thetans or Xenu?

        • Captain Howdy

          Well said ^^^^^

        • CraftLass

          That second paragraph is perfection. Honestly, who cares what someone is like, what matters is their work. This is particularly true when their work happens to affect people and/or our understanding of how our world works. Newton provided not only the laws and theories he produced but a solid foundation for all of the physicists (and others as well) who have toiled since his time. Nothing he could possibly do would nullify that. Fact is fact regardless of who discovered and quantified that fact.

          If Hubbard had created something that was actually a) all that new; and b) actually did what he claimed, the rest of his bio wouldn’t really matter. Even the lying about his bio. It’s a useful tool for expanding on what a scam artist he was, but his work nullifies itself without even having to go there.

        • Robert Eckert

          Another serious distinction from the Newton case is that Newton was not pretending to be an expert in the mind or human relations, while those are the fields LRH is supposedly making contributions. The fact that LRH was seriously crazed and fucked up every relationship in his life is directly relevant to how much “expertise” in those fields he actually had.

          • Vistaril

            The distinction I like best is that Newton never established the Newtonology Religion with its own para-military forced tasked with bringing lower beings into compliance with an arbitrary system of Ethics so that they might in a gradient fashion pay over huge amounts of money to learn the secrets of gravity. L Ron Hubbard, on the other hand, teaches that if people didn’t agree with gravity, then gravity doesn’t exist.

      • Doug Parent

        I found that most if not all of the auditing stuff works well for me. I don’t get hung up on the fact that Hubbard lied about not having a 2nd wife. I don’t care. When you find something that works well for you, and you live a better life as a result, you don’t get hung up on the all the bad decisions the guy who developed it made. Those are his messes and what the church says about Hubbard being super-human are not my problem anymore.

      • Missionary Kid

        I read it, too. I thought it didn’t really cut DM any slack. I realize that they had to give Co$ a chance to make statements, but they didn’t come off too good. Hopefully, it’ll get more people reading Tony.

        I leafed through the magazine, didn’t really look too hard or at the cover much but there was, as far as I’m concerned, a miracle! There was no mention of a Kartrashian!

      • HyperionCorp

        As long as the Indies expose themselves to a wide range of ideas, have normal circles of friend and family, and openly discuss their beliefs (i.e., “verbal tech” is permitted), then they will eventually come to their senses. It just takes time. Social isolation and ban on verbal tech are intrinsic to the LRH brainwashing. Shit, Rathbun has practically become a buddhist.

  • Rob Kline
    • Rob Kline

      sorry i couldn’t resist being bombastic

  • http://www.jackejett.com/ Jack E. Jett

    When blogs collide. I know of Michelle Visage from her postings on the World of Wonder website with her funny insights on pop culture. And I am a virgin researcher to the field of Scientology and have become fascinated with the subject matter and incredibly confused by it at the same time. I really admire the honesty of Michelle to not only support her pal in such a public way but her insistence of people to say what you mean and not be “cryptic” with your BS. In fact if you were to ask me today to sum of what I have learned about Scientology to this date…I would say, it seems to be a bunch of Cryptic BS. Thanks Michelle. You sound like an awesome friend to have.

    • Observer

      The wog friends are stood by her when she was in the “church”, but her clam friends are deserting her since she left the “church”. Wogs FTW!

      • 1subgenius

        Sweet and succinct.

      • Lady Schadenfreude

        I find it really interesting that disconnection stories often end with “and ten years later, I was there for [clam] when he/she finally got out.” On the surface, there seems to be little animosity on behalf of those who left first and endured the whole disconnection ordeal; I wonder if that’s really the case? Is Leah Remini going to welcome all these quietly doubting friends in a few years when they work up the courage to leave, or will she tell them to f*** off?

        • Sunny Sands

          It is amazing how forgiving some people are.

        • Valerie Ross

          Ask Derek if he would welcome his parents if they got out and showed up on his doorstep. I think we know the answer. It is a mixed bag of emotions, but once you get out, you realize just how horribly they screw with your mind while you are in so your compassion grows for anyone who manages to escape.

          • dbloch7986

            That’s a difficult one. I would probably turn them away at first because I’d need time to think.

            They’ve done things to me that most people would consider unforgivable. My priorities have shifted. Maintaining and building a relationship with them is not even on the list anymore because I need to move on with my life.

            The last bit of closure for me was Tony posting my sister’s letter. That letter was written in a light-hearted tone compared to other things my family has said to me.

            So for them to reach out to me, they would need to rebuild the relationship and restore trust with me with minimal or zero effort on my part. Once I get into school and start building a life in Texas they are not going to have a place in it. So if they want one, they’d have to make one.

            If they come at me having expected me to sit and wait for them, I would find that insulting.

            Anyway, my dad was really sick the last time I saw him. I think he may have lung cancer from the Freewinds asbestos. I expect the next time any messages get passed on to me from my immediate family, it will be that my father has passed.

            • Valerie Ross

              Such an honest reply it made me cry. I couldn’t even imagine having made those decisions while my parents were alive. Your strength of character shines through.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, Derek, my heart grieves for you. And while there is always that room set aside for grieving, I am so proud of you for also creating the personal space for your new home and new life. This is the room to choose to spend time in. It builds you up as a person and gives you a reason to get up every day.

              It’s also the space that lets you share so openly with everyone the crap that has been dealt out by the evil cult of Scientology, to harmless victims who did nothing to deserve such evil.

              One day, there will be someone inside the cult who is hurting from abuse and disconnection policies imposed by David Miscavige. And you will be there to share your story, to help and to heal.

              That day is now…I know this will be so.
              Thanks for sharing your voice. You are a generous and much-loved person.

        • dbloch7986

          I have written my immediate family off. Scientology is toxic. In order to preserve my own sanity and happiness, I would never allow it back into my life.

          In Leah’s case, it would be prudent for her to simply cut all ties with these fake friends of her’s. I wanted to be in control of my communication so I blocked my parents on Facebook; I did not wait for them to block me. I changed my phone number and erased all record of their phone numbers from anywhere I had them. This is so I wouldn’t be tempted to contact them.

          • Valerie Ross

            A very brave move. Just out of curiosity, and if this question is too conflicting or you really don’t know the answer, or it is none of my fucking business, just tell me that: IF at some point in the future your immediate family came to you on blended knee asking forgiveness and they were positively definitely out, do you think you would be there for them?

            • Valerie Ross

              Self auditing here, you answered my question while I was asking it.

    • Valerie Ross

      “I would say it seems to be a bunch of cryptic BS.” I was deep into Scientology and I must say, your research is complete. Well done.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Pope doesn’t seem to know which end is up in this case. Who does he think is the opposition? The Garcias or his own witness, Culkin? Pope is no longer defending Culkin from the big, bad Garcias, Mike Rinder, and blog commenters. He is defending Culkin’s declaration. This is a very risky defense strategy. He has already started to attack Culkin’s credibility by adding Culkin’s own emails to his opposition motion. How will this work at the disqualification hearing? Does Pope think tearing Culkin to shreds in order to defend the Declaration will be a good strategy? What does Pope think will happen if Babbitt asks Culkin questions about each fact alleged in the declaration? If Culkin doesn’t understand legalese, will he understand half of what the declaration means? It doesn’t mean he has committed perjury. It means he is an unreliable witness, and Pope is making a huge mistake by hinging the disqualification motion on Culkin.

    • John P.

      Pope is a moron, and is apparently the East Coast mainstay of the cult’s “D-List” legal talent like Gary Soter in LA. But nobody would have an easy time digging out of the hole that Miscavige’s brilliant legal mind dug them into.

      They overplayed their case with the whole motion to disqualify, and doubled down in what appears to me to be an attempt to buttress a motion that wouldn’t have succeeded on a statutory basis by overreaching with the Culkin declaration. Now they get to pay for it.

      It’s like playing golf for big stakes at a sewage treatment plant. When you’ve upped the ante, nobody is going to give you a mulligan when you hooked it and buried your own ball under 12 feet of pure shit. You’ve got to hold your breath, dig in and make the best shot you can, even if it takes weeks to get the stench off afterwards. I am not feeling sorry for them, just enjoying their gift for digging themselves in deeper so quickly.

      • Bella Legosi

        It is motions like this and other delusions of grandure that make me wonder why on earth any wog firm even takes Co$ cases and money! I know the gold is the golden rule, but things like reputation is just as important (if not more so) then gold!

        • Captain Howdy

          Lawyers build their reputation on successfully defending the impossible. Do you think Alan Dershowitz thought O.J or Claus von Bulow were innocent?

          • Bella Legosi

            good point! But, you have to stand in awe that these firms have not really weighed the pros and cons of taking on a Co$ case. They are quickly becoming poison. Not to mention you have to figure that some firms who have dealt with Co$ have had experience with Little Boots and his idiotic legal maneuvering. However, a lawyer is paid to defend/represent their client and MUST take their clients wishes and perspective into account when they take on representation. So, part of me wonders if these wog firms are not of the opinion, “Well, they are paying for us and if they don’t take our advice…….they will hang themselves with the rope that was given to them. Fuck it! We STILL get our retention fee and hourly rates!” and that is why a lot of people hate lawyers! I find that attitude a win and lose. Everyone hates lawyers until they need a good Sol Goodman to defend/represent their ass!

            Better call Sol!

            :D

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              Our constitution gives every criminal their day in court. A lawyer who represents odious individuals is representing the constitution. Lawyers representing clients like the church may do it for the money, but at a certain point the money may not make up for being treated badly or being ordered to unethical things or to use a legal strategy that will fail. A criminal defense lawyer is respected for defending the constitution, no matter how bad the client is (providing they represent the client ethically). A civil defense lawyer, has no halo if they turn into consiglieres, I.e., mouthpieces for bad clients. Ironically, a Tom Cruise movie, “The Firm,” portrays the kind of law firm that makes its money by following the orders of some pretty bad clients.

          • USA MRIID

            Dershowitzshit his pants in surprise when he won.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        “Pope is a moron, and is apparently the East Coast mainstay of the cult’s ‘D-List’ legal talent like Gary Soter in LA.” If you look at legal cases from years ago, the church used to use a number of “white shoe” law firms like Arnold & Porter. Why did they drop those firms? Perhaps because the lawyers wouldn’t be screamed at and told to go SCOHB? (It would have been interesting to watch if that had happened since many senior partners at these firms can scream back just as loudly.) Perhaps because too many partners in those firms did not want to be associated with dirty tricks? I doubt it was because Miscavige thought billing rates of $600 to $1200 were too high. Perhaps they played a better game of golf than Miscavige and wouldn’t follow orders that had them playing golf in a sewage plant when they knew it would mean digging out from under 12 feet of Miscavige generated s**t?

        • John P.

          I suspect it’s a lot easier for the management committee (or at least the junior associates assisting management committee members with tasks like this) to assess the reputation of potential clients via the Internet. It would have been very hard for a white shoe firm pre-Internet to find out what a bunch of douchebags the cult has been in various court cases. But with on-line databases to cover the court cases themselves and with Google to tackle the less technical aspects of reputation, it is pretty easy for a Covington & Burling partner to see just what they’re dealing with, and to conclude almost instantly that the reputational damage of taking on Scientology is not worth even the most ridiculous hourly rate that Miscavige will offer.

          Tony’s site (plus WWP and all the rest of the activist sites) provide great history of court cases, including correspondence that might not be available in PACER or other docket systems. So a 15-20 year history of abuse of the legal process is laid bare with just a few minutes’ work.

          That’s why I am surprised that the cult was able to snooker Clemens & Spencer, a 100+ year old San Antonio law firm (not the largest, with only 12 partners, but a couple of former partners have been appointed to the Federal bench) into taking the Debbie Cook case.

      • USA MRIID

        I really wish the insane Dwarf would bring back Helena Kobrin. Why the fuck can’t he bring in his best hitter at a time like this? Why is he saving his star lawyer when he should be sending her to handle this? Guess the insane Dwarf doesn’t want to win this one.

    • Robert Eckert

      The Declaration itself is not admissible as evidence because it is unsworn and the other side has had no opportunity to cross-examine; a sworn affidavit might have been acceptable if there were some good reason why the witness could not be produced and examined, which is what the whole “The Bunkerites scared him to death!” filing was about. But as it stands now, it is useless to try to build up the Declaration. The judge will say, bring the witness here or forget it (and if they say “forget it, never mind” the judge may well say, “OK then here are some expensive sanctions for wasting my time”).

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I agree. Miscavige’s enraged campaign to turn the Garcia case into a grudge match with Rinder, Rathbun and Garcia’s lawyers has now been extended to Culkin and Ray Jeffrey. The fact that a declaration is only useful to bolster arguments in a brief, and is useless in a trial, means nothing to Miscavige. Since Pope takes his marching orders from Miscavige, his attacks on Culkin, which are impeaching his own witness, appear to be for the sole purpose of propitiating Miscavige. This is a self-destructive strategy by Pope. Either he is stalling for time until he can get his client to agree to withdraw the disqualification motion, or he honestly believes that he can rehabilitate Culkin as a viable witness by bullying and threatening him into giving testimony to support the case. That might work if this was 1995, and there were no attorneys like Babbitt and Jeffrey who refuse to be bullied, and who can defuse any trap or attack Pope tries to use. This is not 1995, however, no matter how much Miscavige, through Pope, tries to make it so. The bullying and threatening tactics he used in his heyday don’t work in 2013 after years of Internet exposure, and many, many tell-all books. Tony O is one of the biggest reasons that Miscavige’s tricks no longer work. Pope’s pathetic attempt to blame this blog as the reason Culkin “turned” is an admission that Miscavige and company are unable to perform dirty tricks when those tricks are exposed to the world within days and often minutes of Miscavige pulling them. It would be interesting to know how many dirty tricks Miscavige has tried to get Pope to pull, and which Pope has reluctantly rejected because of probable Internet exposure. P.I.s following Culkin and the Garcias, hired by Pope? P.I.s investigating the judge? Paid witness testimony?

        Just imagine what would have happened in the Lisa McPherson case if the Underground Bunker had been covering it. The medical examiner may then have had international support against the vicious bullying of Miscavige, and the criminal case may not have dismissed. What we are witnessing, punch by punch, through the Underground Bunker, is the demise of an era of Miscavige dirty tricks and bullying as a way to win legal cases (and as a way of keeping members from leaving).

        • Bella Legosi

          Don’t you love it when Co$ lawyers use the “Objection! This is extremely damaging to my case! Please, Judge…….pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain!!!”???

        • John P.

          Given that misuse of confidential information by conflicted opposing counsel strikes at the very heart of impartial advocacy at the heart of the justice system, the Court has to listen carefully to any motion to disqualify counsel. But there must be consequences to a vexatious motion to disqualify counsel or every case will waste infinite amount of time with both sides moving to disqualify the other.

          I think the motion to disqualify in this case has gone light years past the point (if there ever was one) where it can be gracefully withdrawn. The fact that the cult has called for a major hearing on the issue, and supplied obviously manufactured declarations in support of a motion that was way out of line to begin with will not be lost on the judge.

          They don’t get a mulligan on this one; they will be affected by the consequences of this outrageous conduct for the rest of the trial. And an appeals court will look unfavorably on the cult in the wake of such awful lawyering, so they have also hurt their chances on appeal after they lose.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            “Awful lawyering” is right. And how embarrassing for Pope and Miscavige that it is being done in a “glass courtroom” (the Internet).

        • aquaclara

          “Just imagine what would have happened in the Lisa McPherson trial if the Underground Bunker had been covering it.” Oh, if Tony. Had been on the scene, that would have been something. The medical facts would have been on the record. There would have been leaks of confidential -and incriminating information. The police records would have been made public, at least partially. all fair gaming would have leaked out and been recorded by Mark Bunker on video. The print press would have had an ally to support claims, and help combat bullying. The pay-offs would have been investigated and possibly exposed. And the voices of the family members would have been heard throughout, lest anyone forget the reason for the investigative reporting in the first place.

          I CAN imagine. Because it is happening today, with all the victims of the cult of Scientology that have followed Lisa.

          Nice thought. I am just sorry that Lisa was lost to the cult first.

    • USA MRIID

      The insane Dwarf is calling his own star witness a fucking liar, how’s *that* for typical David Miscaviage lunacy?

  • 0tessa

    The ethics of Scientology: we are right and you are wrong.

  • MissCandle

    For emphasis to make sure you all see this: I have my computer set to the God Discussion radio for the 3 p.m. Kyle Brennen program, and am listening now (1:20 p.m.) to Sam Domingo and 2 others discuss Tom Cruise’s visit to Ireland and S-Lying-Tology. Excellent discussion so far. Just now discussing disconnection and abortions.

    • MissCandle

      OK, nevermind. It’s her link from her own post. I got my tabs mixed up. But good comments anyway, if you follow her link.
      Sorry Bunkerites for my mistake.

  • SandiCorrena

    Got my People; saw the reference to Tony!!!! And I love this too under “Who is David Miscavige”‘; “may be slight in stature but he’s a giant within the church” – hahahahahahahahaha SLIGHT! That just totally cracked me up!

    • SandiCorrena

      “Slight Sprite” David Miscavige………….still cracking myself up! Think I’m gonna write a song about it…… I probably shouldn’t be enjoying it so much but everytime I think about it I start laughing again.

    • USA MRIID

      Did you read Tom Cruise’s “Unauthorized Biography?” :) Cruise is also a short guy, only a little taller than the Dwarfenfurher.

  • Spackle Motion

    To me, Scientology has a credibility problem when it comes to declarations and even sworn testimony.

    I try not to believe everything I read when it is produced by Scientology and/or their hired goons. I would bet money that Culkin’s emails were doctored, clipped, or otherwise fabricated solely for the purpose of saving face and/or getting more anti-Culkin sentiment out in public. It also serves as harassment to Culkin and it delays things nicely, which come straight out of Hubbard’s playbook.

    This entire motion is like watching a dog chase its own tail then biting itself.

    • Valerie Ross

      I was wondering the same thing. It doesn’t look like email printouts I usually see in the course of business, the headers seem doctored at best. Why isn’t Hellers email to Brian below Brian’s response? But we know that {aside from Hubbard’s War Records} Scientology does not make it a habit of forging documents, right? I am curious to see Brian’s response in this matter. It seems as though this is an attempt at fair game to me. If we can’t use this witness, we will destroy his credibility.

      I was talking to a colleague the other day about people who get themselves in trouble using payday loans. We discussed the fact that it was hard these days for anyone to see the long term implications of their actions. It is fortunate that Scientology can not see that by torpedoing their witness, they are also torpedoing their Motion and bringing their own credibility into question. I say keep it up, let them help the Garcias win their case.

      • dbloch7986

        L. Ron Hubbard taught them, “If it isn’t written, it isn’t true.” This meant to them, that the written word holds more weight than the spoken word. They probably have yet to learn that in the real world, things don’t work that way.

        Additionally, while it’s good that Scientology is damaging their own credibility, at the same time they are confusing things. Let’s say the trial did go to jury or were to be decided by the judge, our justice system hinges on reasonable doubt. Confusion leads to reasonable doubt. The more confusing things are, the more difficult it will be for the Garcia’s to prove their case.

        • Robert Eckert

          “Beyond a reasonable doubt” is only the standard in criminal cases. This is a civil lawsuit and the only standard would be “preponderance of the evidence” (which side appears more likely, even if only 51/49).

  • HeatherGraceful

    I like the fact that the behaviour of these “friends” of Leah and Angelo aren’t being allowed to “scatter like roaches” without their behaviour being called out publicly. Even though they aren’t all being named (Kirsty Alley went public herself), the world is getting a clear picture of what this “church” is truly like. If a certain scientology celebrity blog is to be believed, the amount of blowback within the celebrity centre international is significant and lots of public are questioning staff.

    Thanks once again, Leah.

  • LongNeckGoose

    Scientology: The Worst Friends Money Can Buy

  • LocalSP

    I read it that Culkin knew that they may use it but told them that if was called as a witness he would speak the truth.

    • 1subgenius

      And if they said that, it was probably worded in their usual gobbledy way.

    • USA MRIID

      I would love to see Culkin perched in a deposition after being sworn in and having to explain his “TR-L” training. :) A Judge would love that.

  • ze moo

    From the National Enquirer to the Daily Mail (ok, not a lot of journalistic integrity in that group) to ABC news and the E! network, buttloads newspapers and websites, a lot of media outlets have covered the Remini defection and subsequent ‘disconnection’ of Leah’s clamato ‘friends’. Much of the coverage has referenced Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes and many past ‘dead agent’ attacks on former members and protesters. NarCONon and other troubles have been discussed too.

    The saturation point is near, being a public $cientologist has become about as popular as being Al Qaeda’s #3. Number 3 is the one the drones keep taking out.

    • Anonymookme

      That picture of L Loon Hubtard in a tomato mind meld never gets old.

    • Anonymookme

      Man, one would think that with all of the Sooper Powerz he claimed to have, L Loon would have done something about his horrific skin!
      Here a pock mark, there a pock mark, everywhere a pock mark. E I E I O

  • Bradley Greenwood

    It’s almost like they want to destroy their cult. If I ran a cult, I’d try to keep out of the media. Scientology played with celebrities, and is getting burned.

    It shows what a pin-head (moon face?) DM is, not seeing the big-picture or the long-term.

    • Bella Legosi

      I know!

      I was wondering last night when Co$ will make a policy about Twitter and Facebook! They have zero control over what moronic crap gets tweeted and then they think by “deleting” the tweet is like auditing the incident away! I am like…….Really?

      You know OSA and Little Boots are scrambling to quiet the mess that twitter has started, but they still can not realize that it is a truly futile effort! When will they realize when it comes to the internet:
      1. When you post anything it is forever.
      2. The “delete” button/concept is only in the mind.
      3. There are many people who watch out for attempts to “delete” embarrassing shit (i.e Radar Online)!
      4. Even if deletion is successful, it is more than evident that whatever was said can/will/is a ‘mistake’, embarrassment, and that by the very act of deleting posts/comments/tweets shows that they are trying to hide something! It is a kin to what I like to call a “verbal cover-up”! Either way, not good PR and it only makes them out to look like technological retards.

    • SP ‘Onage

      The Manson family mindset has begun. Little Davey, like Manson, is sitting in the background orchestrating the attack and manipulating them to do his bidding against Leah and her family. What a bunch of lemmings!

    • USA MRIID

      That asshole Mike Rinder opened his shitter once and specifically stated that he wanted to get his crime syndicate off off the Clearwater news. 1998 or 1999, as I recall.

  • Bella Legosi

    If Leah goes to the Free Zone or becomes Indie, I will have a lot more respect for them as a group! Her attitude should be the norm for any religion! Allow a person to make their own mind up, accept who/what they are, and love them no matter what! I know I am not the biggest fan of the Indie Movement and I am sure they are not a fan of good ol’ crazy Bella, but to have Leah connected to them would be a priceless asset (for lack of a better word).

    I say this not trying to stir the shit pot with any Indie readers or trying to offend them. I really don’t have a problem with Indies……..I just don’t like LRH! But, I do respect that they believe in him and his processes and they have that right to believe it! What I have a problem with is the absolute criminality that is born from LRH philosophy and policy!

    • sugarplumfairy

      One actress having win withdrawal won’t make me respect that creepy, soul-freezing tech..

      DISCLAIMER: that was an opinion, not an insult..

      • Bella Legosi

        I completely understand SPF……..in my opinion there is nothing that could ever wash the dirt off the hands of LRH or his tech……but at least having someone like that among their own (saying in hypothetically) would be a stellar example for future followers to follow. It doesn’t mean much but at least it shows that in some cases this belief system can evolve.

        Besides, I really think going Indie is just the first step to total disavow of LRH and Scientology as a whole. Once a seed of doubt is firmly planted it is very hard to up root and can keep growing. N amount of apologists can really change that. I do find it a shame that some Indies swarm those who freshly leave without giving that person proper time to decompress.

        I don’t know……this is why I usually tend to stay quiet on the subject of Indies. I am really 5050 with them.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      I support any person’s right to join any religion or have any religious belief. The church of scientology, however, has turned into a very vicious cult. Tory Magoo makes a point in her videos of reporting on what the church was like 20-30 years ago, and how different it is today. It is very difficult to leave a cult, for some people, it is impossible. The worst kind, like the church, tells its members “don’t believe what you see, believe what we tell you to see.” And it works. This is brainwashing. I went to a hypnotist show at a comedy club a few years ago. The hypnotist had a woman crying because her dad was the Easter Bunny and she couldn’t see him at Easter. She believed it. The hypnotist had seven people on stage believe he was naked from the waist down, and that common words like “paper” were filthy swear words. They weren’t pretending, they believed it. Each of these people gave their informed consent before going up on stage. Since members believe that their eternity, and the eternities of their family, will be lost if they leave the church, how depressed they must be if they have an inking of true awareness of what Miscavige has done to their church. What desperation they must feel if the only alternative to constant abuse, bullying and threats is the void. The Indies offer a way out for people trapped like this. The more people they can encourage to leave, the better. When people have decompressed, and gotten back their sense of self, they can stay with the Indies or not, it’s their choice, their freedom

  • Bella Legosi

    As for Stacy Francis (who I never even heard of before she was mentioned here) is a fucking ding bat talking head! Fuck her and her twits! After reading some posts last night Bella decided to send her ass a tweet!

    Bella Legosi ‏@fkboriskarloff10h

    @stacyfrancis You know the delete button is only in your mind right? If you are the result of #Scientology no wonder people think its a cult

    By the way I HATE that twitter makes you make a point in under 200 characters! Some points are not to be treated as sound bites damn it! This is kinda why I don’t use twitter much!

    • Sidney18511

      Good job Bella! I think that the probablem with these celebrity tweets is that the celebrities themselves don’t realize how much Scientology is watched and hated. I think that Kirstie thought her “fuck um” tweet would only be understood by Leah. They are so much in a bubble that they have no idea that the eyes of millions are on them and see them as a cult.

      • Bella Legosi

        Totally in agreement! And thank you for the compliment!

        They really don’t know just how much they are watched online. That bubble should be confronted and shattered! But if it is then we wouldn’t get the crazy proof just how deluded those hard core kool aid drinkers are! I hope they know that they now are in the same ballpark as Amanda for sheer stupidity!

  • Bob Gravlin

    Let’s make sure that as many people as possible, especially in the media, know how COS treats friendship.

    • Tory Christman

      Good point, Bob! I was picketing w/ a 30+ old friend. An OSA Staff member said to us: “Oh Tory, so you’re dating Casper now?” I replied: “I don’t date people my son’s age. I’m SO Sorry you’ve long forgotten what the word “friend” means. They never said that to me, again.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Was shocked that Delphi, a Scientology based school, has a booth in the children’s area at the DaVinci Days Art, science and technology fair in Corvallis Oregon.
    today and Sunday.

    • 1subgenius

      Have you sent for the cavalry?

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        I talked to the fair director. It is in the pay to get in area where exibits, vendors and music stages are. $15 / day or $25 / 3 day. All the Cavelry who could self-select for Oregon, pro pu read Tony’s. understandably the fair does not want an incident that would detract from the fair itself.

        • Bella Legosi

          I hope the fair is of the attitude, “Well they paid to get the booth! It’s not like we really want them there!”

          Corvallis is a college town (OSU)! I really do hope those who pay to get into this area has Co$ # and will treat them like the plague they are! Thanks for the info! I didn’t even know DaVinci Days was going on, much less Delphi has a booth there! And I am an Oregon resident!

        • 1subgenius

          Roger that. Maybe you educated at least one person.

        • Kitz

          If I wasn’t a broke bitch…..

    • Bella Legosi

      *sighs*

      I am sure they will employ, “We are non religious affiliated.”

      It makes me SICK that Co$ will play the “religious/religion” card when it serves them well to do so, but then try to distance themselves from the religion! That would be like a Christian/Muslim/Jewish school opening up and them saying, “Oh we don’t use indoctrination! We only apply what our Savior/Prophet/God has outlined for us! But, we totally don’t have anything to do with religion. Scouts honor! Please, trust us! We are good religious……..errrrr I mean not religious people!”

      Enturbulates me more then you know! Hope that booth gets intelligent questions like, “What is ‘word clearing’ and how intensely is it employed?” or “Was L R H ever licensed to teach or have any credentials to back up his made up theories on teaching?” or “What educational institutions outside of Delphi endorse LRH teaching methods?” or “Show me results from independent organizations that show your teaching methods actually make my kid a better reader, thinker, and student?”

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        I wasn’t even talking to them. They overheard me talking to some visitors to their booth and one girl said to me “its not religious, just read the brochures”. I raised my voice a bit and said something like “Don’t tell me to read it. I was in Scientology 27 years and I know you use Scientology at Delphi.” I was starting to shake and trigger a bit, so I walked away and found the fair Director and the head of security (who they had called) and filled them on my objection.

        • Kitz

          I’m glad you walked away! Be careful over there…

        • Bella Legosi

          Great job! I hope the fair director takes your objection seriously! I think I shall have to voice my concern that a booth put on by a religious organization is basically false advertising to unsuspecting public!

          This is about the time I wish I had some of John P’s money :P I would rent out a booth right next to it and invite people like you, Tony, Luke, and Mark…..you know since they are authors and journalists……:D that’s an art right?

          THANK YOU for being there today!

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Just saved a family. Delphi had talked to them for over an hour. I saw them as they left the area, and asked them if Delphi had told them it used Scientology. She said NO! And thanked me very much! They had been sold on it, and specifically had asked if it was religious based. Delphi said they were secular, a lie. They had just come out of a high demand group and wanted nothing to do with another. So I saved them! Made my day!

        • aquaclara

          What a terrific story, Michael. You were in the right place to pay it forward, even though there must have been a part of you that wanted nothing more to do with the crappy cult called Scientology. Nice win.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Just one little chink. I saw a fraud being committed, I thought, because I was certain they were not telling her the vital detail that they used scientology methods. That is a significant fact that bore directly on her potential decision to send her kids there. They withheld that fact, which is fraudulent in my view. Some other things happened that I’m not ready to tell yet.

            • Kitz

              Was there mayhem, madness, chaos, and panic?? Then your work there was done. (And done well!)

              Sorry…. ‘Plays well with others’ has never been one of my virtues, and this weekend it has completely disappeared. Plus you know I’m kidding. :-)

        • Bella Legosi

          :D :D :D

          That is soooooo freaking awesome!!!!!! I bet it made your day and night!
          :D :D :D

  • Sidney18511

    Just finished listening to Kylie’s mother Victoria on the radio. Heartbreaking story and a devastating injustice was done to that mother and her son, and Scientology was directly in the middle of it.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Y’all probably know this, but my sister just told me Howard Stern was talking on his show this week about
    Leah Remini leaving co$.. I asked her if it was funny and she said “not really, it was more serious..” She can’t remember details tho..

    • dbloch7986

      Howard has always blasted Scientology in a very serious manner. He doesn’t like they way they treat people at all.

  • Snippy_X

    Tangent: Is Religion Good or Evil? Mehdi Hasan challenges evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins at the Oxford Union in front of a varied and lively audience.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/general/2012/12/2012121791038231381.html

    • sugarplumfairy

      Snip.. Your disqus activity is private so I can’t look up your other comments.. How come?

      • Captain Howdy

        Snippy’s been around for awhile. I didn’t even know you could make your comments private. Sounds good to me. I don’t want people using my previous comments against me or seeing my less stellar efforts.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Yah, I recognized him.. But this privacy thing is a dangerous precedent.. What if everyone on the Internet went private??? The possible consequences could be devastating!!!

          I’m all about transparency.. Not for me, but for everybody else..

          • Captain Howdy

            “I’m all about transparency.. Not for me, but for everybody else..”

            Precisely.

            • sugarplumfairy

              =)

      • Snippy_X

        see above :)

      • Robert Eckert

        Sherbet was remarking that we don’t get so many “all religions are equally wacky” posts anymore. We got one from an Angry Atheist yesterday, so it’s times we get one from an OSA Deflector.

    • JonathanRoberts

      I will second that why the secrecy on you?

      • Snippy_X

        It’s not secrecy. It’s privacy. Disqus shows posts on all forums. 99% of the posters here I trust have the sense to take my comments with the appropriate number of grains of salt. Other boards, not so much. Psychopaths and cyber-bullies can make your life hell, if they decide you are an easy mark, and they are everywhere. So friends, please don’t take it personally.

  • Garry Scarff

    LOL. Stacy Francis, the confused celebrity wannabe who can’t make up her mind whether she’s an evangelical Christian or a Scientologist is attacking Leah? The same Stacy Francis that cheated on her Scientologist husband (who divorced her) with her Christian church bishop & had a child with him?? Stacy Francis is a human ping pong ball chasing alliances that provides her media exposure which she rallies her fans with. I didn’t work with Whitney Houston (whom she pissed off) and it didn’t work with her boo-hoo’ing loss on the X-Factor.

  • Jgg2012

    Stacy Francis: she says she isn’t a Scientologist, but she’s defending Scientology (again).
    Garcia case: Culkin, who Scientology says has no credibility, is their source for information as to how Babbitt knows too much about a disconnection policy they say they don’t have.
    Are there any TRs available to tell people how to lie better?

    • CharlieWaters

      Why yes there is. It’s called TR-L (Training Routine – Lie).

      This website explains it:

      http://anonireland.com/blog/scientology/training-routines/#trl

      • USA MRIID

        Ah, I’m glad to see Im not the only person who mentioned TR-L. :) Love to see Culkin get dragged up in front of the Judge and asked if he ever did the TR-L Rundown. :)

  • mook

    Kind of O/ T, but can we get some info on whether or not these celebs were/are involved with CoS?:
    -JJ Abrams
    -Ben Stiller
    -Hilary Swank
    -Janeane Garofalo
    -Jeremy Renner
    -Eric Dane
    -Anna Kendrick
    -Joanna Garcia
    -Johnny Galecki
    -Chad Michael Murray
    -Milo Ventimigla
    -Daniel Craig

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      Whoever runs the Celeb Sci blog would know who’s currently it, but that’s just an educated guess.

    • Captain Howdy

      Seven of those people I’ve never heard of, and of the ones I have, J.J Abrams is the only name I’ve seen connected to CofS, and his his involvement is supposedly in the past.

    • media_lush

      JJ Abrams
      Pretended to be only to get some good insight on ‘The Borg’ scripts for STNG

      -Ben Stiller
      No, still a strong Festuvist

      -Hilary Swank
      Nope

      -Janeane Garofalo
      Was turned away from LA Celeb Centre… even they have standards

      -Oprah
      Continually confused… on bad days believes tiny Tommy thetans are still stuck in the couch

      -David and Victoria Beckham
      Tom’s obvious pants bulge whenever he was in the vicinity of her husband put a kaboosh from day one

      -Shirley MacLaine
      Too crazy even for them

      -Jeremy Renner
      …. well, you know they say ‘gay for pay’…. one of Tommy’s favourites as he doesn’t have to wear his lifts when they dance together

      MIGHT COME BACK TO FINISH THE REST IF I GET A FEW UPVOTES…..

      -Eric Dane
      -Duane Martin and Tisha Campbell
      -Anna Kendrick
      -Joanna Garcia
      -Johnny Galecki
      -Chad Michael Murray
      -Milo Ventimigla
      -Daniel Craig

      • noseinabk

        ^^^^ upvotes^^^^^

    • Jon Hendry

      Is there any reason you’re asking about these specific people, or are they just names you pulled out of your ass?

  • SP ‘Onage

    We must not be afraid of the truth or cherish our own desires to the point that we become willfully ignorant.

    Thank you, Michelle Visage for not being willfully ignorant, you’re a good friend. ;)

    Leah, stay strong! Courage is Contagious.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Isn’t “bombastic” one of the words that supposedly cause the NSA to flag you as a potential terrorist?

    • Mr. Fabulous

      Congratulations, you’ve just been flagged. ;)

      • SP ‘Onage

        Darn it! I’ll just blame it on the clams, snap, snap, SNAP! :D

      • mirele

        You and me and everyone three hops down the line, if reporting this week is to be believed…

    • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

      I thought it as more a question of using the phrase “full panoply.”

    • USA MRIID

      Anthrax. Ricin. Where’s the REAL birth certificate?

      (There, NOW the NSA shitbags are paying attention.)

  • Richie

    CO$ appears to need enemies at all times to give itself purpose. I think it’s threefold:

    1) Both of its leaders have been deeply troubled, deeply toxic personalities. LRH created Scientology, in part, to fight Dianetics’ harsh and passionate critics. DM came of age in the cult and worked closely with LRH during his most embattled years, so he was bred to thrive on the “fight.”

    2) Cults need an us vs. them mentality to give the illusion of credibility to their extraordinary, scientifically unfounded beliefs.

    3) DM’s culture of physical and emotional violence is causing an astronomical number of defections, and these defectors are more prone to fight back now, then at any other time in the cult’s history, because their former leader has instilled such seething contempt and disgust in them. The internet also unites the brave defectors and the media is beginning to support their rebellion.

    All of this makes for never-ending feuds, lawsuits,, smear campaigns, and public wars of words. It used to be Scientology vs. the Pyschs. Now it feels like it’s Scientology vs…the entire world.

    Is it accurate to say that in its 59 year history, the cult has never seen a time of peace?

  • 1subgenius

    Perez Hilton is reporting that Leah was kicked out of CoS (part quit/part kicked out).

    Regardless of the truthiness of it, I think this may be the shore story the cult uses in the future.

    http://perezhilton.com/2013-07-20-gay-drama-lead-to-leah-remini-leaving-scientology#.UesOZI3VArU

    He ends by saying lots will be leaving the cult “and they should.”
    Hehe.

    • Missionary Kid

      Perez also is very aware that Co$ isn’t friendly to gays, so his being gay doesn’t put them on his list of favorites.

    • Robert Eckert

      He isn’t getting different info, just misinterpreting what’s in the info already revealed. He says his story is all from Nicole Remini’s interviews, but obviously he is rather selective in which he picked out from there.

  • FingersCrossed

    Jennifer Lopez and Leah are friends, yes.. so is Jennifer gonna disconnect from her dad, a Scientologist, or Leah?

    • LexiCON

      Tom Cruise didn’t have to disconnect from Katie

      • FingersCrossed

        Right.. so weird.. special treatment cause his best friend is COB? I just wonder..

  • LexiCON

    Creeepy press release from the cult today:

    “Diplomats, leaders and community activists gathered at the Church of
    Scientology National Affairs Office July 18 in observance of United
    Nations Nelson Mandela International Day for Freedom Justice and
    Democracy. Service to others was the keynote of the day.

    Attendees participated in a video conference with Prince Unathi
    Mtirara, great-nephew of Nelson Mandela, CEO of Opera South Africa and
    board member of Nelson Mandela Library. Emphasizing that service is
    Mandela’s hallmark, Prince Unathi encouraged those assembled to continue
    and to increase their work to help their communities, saying “We’re
    asking for your service. And I am proud of what you have already
    done.”

    Service was also the theme of the presentation by Los Angeles County
    Superior Court Judge Ellen DeShazer. Judge DeShazer presides over a
    drug court that diverts individuals charged with nonviolent drug
    offenses and chronic substance abuse issues out of the local jail and
    state prison systems and into treatment. “Every day, you should be doing
    the hard work of changing your neighbor. Start with him and then move
    on and out,” she said.

    The event crowned a day of activities organized by The Way to
    Happiness Foundation Washington D.C. Chapter that included a community
    cleanup at Rose Park and Rock Creek Park, removing bottles, cans, trash
    and painting over graffiti.

    The Way to Happiness, written by author and humanitarian L. Ron
    Hubbard, is a moral code based on common sense. More than 100 million
    copies of The Way to Happiness have been distributed in 205 countries
    and territories, providing a moral compass anyone can live by.

    Judge DeShazer spoke of the benefit of this booklet in helping to
    change the lives of others for the better. “I always have copies of The
    Way to Happiness to give away,” she said. “It is a wonderful book that
    offers guidance, structure and tools to live by.”

    • noseinabk

      Prweb? The cult has posted alot of these bs artcles this week.

    • Snippy_X

      What are the chances Judge DeShazer is a real judge, like for cat shows.

      • noseinabk

        Stuck on a tablet for now, but did try to look her up. First links looked like real judge. Is it worth the time to send any of the groups mentioned info on the cult front groups? If so ,what is most effective to send? Sadley some of the groups mentioned looked legit.

    • Spiderpope

      So now they are trying to co-opt the legacy of Nelson Mandela?

  • TonyOrtega

    New post up!

  • Shannon

    I love Michelle Visage and am obsessed with RuPaul’s drag race… This made me love her so much more. Stick up for your friend sister, throw em a little Jersey, they wont know what hit them!!!

  • USA MRIID

    “The shit has hit the fan and everyone is scattering like roaches. Only her real friends are left…”

    That’s a good thing. Eject the fake “friends” who do that shitting insane dwarf’s bidding.

  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    Disconnection, that is: the hurt it causes, is a potent weapon of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology and one that is used often as a threat to keep wavering victims hanging on. Kudos to Leah that she decided to quit in spite of knowing all about this – she was, after all, in the Sea Org where she would have learned first hand what “keep scientology working” means to the fanatics at the helm. She and Jenna Miscavige Hill would make an excellent interview duo for some enterprising journalist interested in the human cost of the policy which was lauded by “Tommy” David – http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/08/tommy_davis_sci.php

  • Synthia Fagen

    Leah, they’re mad and causing a fuss because they would rather have you concentrate on their cat fights
    then continue to ask your questions — questions they MUST answer sooner or later.

    I know it’s hard but please try to stay above the fray and away from the hate that these ex-friends cannot
    control themselves from wielding at you. Stay the course with your poignant questioning:

    Where is Shelly Miscavige and why can’t she be contacted and why doesn’t even her own husband see or live
    with her?

    Where are the International Execs (who used to be leaders/speakers at the events) but who have now been
    disappeared?

    Why does the Sea Organization coerce and essentially force abortions?

    Why are they involved in human trafficking?

    Why has the International Management become violent? What is being done about the abuse of members, especially the elderly?

    What about the deplorable conditions of the majority of Sea Org members?

    Why does the “church” think it’s okay to split up families?

    Where is the financial transparency to the various campaigns that parishioners donate to? Why won’t they open their books?

    Why does this organization send PIs to follow people who leave, some for as long as 25 years?

    Why so many deaths, suicides, cancers (above the norm) in people who traverse the higher
    levels?

    Why are people afraid to think and speak freely?

    These are some basic questions. There is SO much more — so, so, so much more.

  • Jig Saw

    We all should know the following
    http://www.loohan.com/Scn.htm

  • Dianne Schuch

    Leah Remini is my hero. I am just now enjoying her work on King of Queens and what I like most about it is, Carries character on the show reflecst Remini’s actual personality and her take no prisoners and no nonsense attitude. I would really love to meet her one day and talk about her experiences. It would be nothing if not informative and enlightening as well as entertaining. Love Her!!!!