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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Has Leah Remini Left the Church of Scientology?

Leah_ReminiRecently, we got a tip from one of our better sources that Leah Remini had left Scientology in an angry fit.

We didn’t have any more details, but we knew that the King of Queens actress was in a family of Scientologists, including her husband Angelo Pagán, who is a Los Angeles restaurateur.

We put in a call to Pagán, and he was kind enough to call us back. No, he told us, what we’d heard was incorrect. Neither he or his wife were angry with the church, and even if they were, he said, that would be something they would work out with the church itself.

We appreciated his candor, and wished him well. But since that call several weeks ago, we’ve seen more and more circumstantial evidence that tells us Remini has washed her hands of the church.

Take a spin around Remini’s own website, for example, and you’ll look in vain for a reference to Scientology.

Even in her list of charities — usually a dead giveaway of Scientology-related front groups — Remini’s list is Scientology-free:

One of Leah’s greatest joys in life is the philanthropic work she does with diverse charities, from the Children’s Hospital and the Zoo in her home city of Los Angeles, not to mention several after-school programs, just to name a few. Leah continues to support those charities that are getting real help to those that need it.

We also noticed that her Wikipedia page, which used to reference her involvement in Scientology, now has no mention of it, and she’s identified as a Catholic.

(One of our sources tells us that Remini herself asked for Wikipedia to make that change. We haven’t confirmed that, however.)

Then, last week, one of our readers alerted us to an interesting exchange on Twitter following the tragic death of James Gandolfini…

LeahTweets

 
Remini, 43, is originally from Brooklyn and lives in Los Angeles. King of Queens ran from 1998 to 2007.

Scientology’s own publications show that Remini has achieved Operating Thetan Level Five — three levels short of the church’s highest level of spiritual advancement. Pagán also is a longtime Scientologist.

Remini dated Pagán for six years before they were married on July 19, 2003 at the Four Seasons Hotel in Las Vegas. Pagán had three sons from a previous marriage, and he and Remini had a daughter, Sofia, in 2004.

Leah_Remini_Angelo_Pagan

Leah’s mother, Vicki Marshall, is an Operating Thetan Level Eight and a Class VI auditor — — we’re told that she brought up Leah in the church from a very early age.

Remini gained a reputation for speaking out on behalf of Scientology. In 2006, she became a sort of unofficial spokeswoman for Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes when she reported that she’d seen their daughter, Suri, and said that the baby was fine (rumors had started swirling after her parents had kept Suri out of the public eye for months after her birth). Later that year, when Cruise and Holmes were married at a castle outside Rome, People magazine relied on Remini for some of the details of the affair. In 2007, People asked Remini if she was trying to convert Jennifer Lopez. Remini denied it. In 2008, Gawker had fun with a crazy-sounding recruitment e-mail that Remini allegedly sent out to encourage her fellow Scientologists to hurry up their spiritual advancement. In 2009, fans of Janeane Garofalo’s Air America show, “Majority Report,” complained when she had Remini on the show for what turned into an infomercial about a Scientology-based detoxification program for New York firefighters.

But Remini seems to have been very quiet about Scientology in more recent times. We’d like to know more — has she had a falling out with leader David Miscavige and his focus on extreme fundraising? Tipsters, let us know.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 5, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • media_lush

    Obviously the new theme tune for the cult now is Queen’s ‘Another One Bites The Dust’.

    • richelieu jr

      You mean the King of Queen’s…

  • Observer

    Her Twitter response really struck me. It was more civil than I’d expect from a hypersensitive Scilon (or maybe that’s just Kirstie “Not a Turn the Other Cheek Kind of Religion” Alley), and it didn’t have the “come in and find out for yourself” pitch, which IMO is odd considering she was so gung-ho just a few years ago.

    Run, Leah, run!

    • richelieu jr

      Fight Leah, fight! (
      then run in slow motion as victory music plays and the “Church’ implodes behind you… Yes, run as if that bikini couldn’t protect you…)

  • 1subgenius

    If she has left the cult she’ll just be annoying, not an annoying Scientologist.

  • Captain Howdy

    Baba Boom Baba Blow!

    • Observer

      I’m just glad I had swallowed that mouthful of coffee.

  • FLUNK_101

    Wow. Personally, I like her. I saw her on that talk show, and it sometimes it seemed like the other girls ostracized her a bit … I felt bad for her. She’s got to hate the bad press about Scientology. Maybe she’s going the Greta Susteren route, and keeping her faith to herself.
    Unless, of course, she now sees it for the vampiric life-sucking vortex it really is.
    I think it was someone who had the rank of Captain who referred to Susteren as “Greta Von Truncheon Face.” Is it my imagination, or has her face has really changed since the OJ trial? No more body thetans distorting her appearance?

    • Captain Howdy

      It’s called “Botox Tech” and it kills body thetans DEAD! I’m happy for Leah if she left the cult, but I’m not a big fan of the NorEast blowsy thang in a woman. Just the accent alone makes my scrotum shrivel.

      • Sherbet

        I believe Greta VS got a full-on facelift a few years ago.

        • Poison Ivy

          Internet wrong. GVS got the full enchilada. I remember a People Magazine article about it.

          • FLUNK_101

            I didn’t mean to sound overly critical of the way she looks. As far as I could tell, she always looked perfectly cool, up until it looked like she had plastic surgery.
            I like the women on the American version of the BBC News. They’re not so highly cosmeticized, they’re very animated and very charming!

            • Poison Ivy

              I actually thought she had outstanding surgery. A very good doc. If you didn’t know her before and saw her, you’d never have thought “face lift.” She just looked less tired and haggard and mean afterward.

        • Andrew Robertson

          That brought back memories Sherbet! It must have been around 2004 American election night when George Bush the Younger defeated someone whose name escapes me. I was managing an isolated farm and the only television reception was Fox News. (My obvious preference was BBC News but I couldn’t pick it up.)

          The Fox commentators were an obnoxious bunch of (expletive deleted) know-all-know-nothings. But Greta Van Susteren was doing the expert statistics commentary and I developed a morbid fascination looking at her face with the skin stretched so tightly across her cheekbones and wondering if it would split.

          Fortunately it didn’t.

          Andrew

          • Captain Howdy

            Yay Andrew!

            Let me guess..was it a sheep farm?

          • Sebastian L. Jackson

            I remember a segment of Al Franken’s radio show where he covered the Bill O’Reilly-“Fox News Security” fiasco, and he said one of the perks of the job was learning “how to stretch Greta Van Susteren’s face… TO THE BREAKING POINT.”

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yes, she got the whole ball of wax…but it really did improve her appearance.

          • richelieu jr

            Too bad you can’t get a brain and personality lift.

  • DodoTheLaser

    So Leah Remini is now officially identified as a Catholic on her Wiki Page.
    Same Wiki page that identified her previously as a hard-core Scientologist.

    Interesting.

    And Homeland Security knows that I’m an Orthodox Christian again. And Ex-Scientologist.
    Although, I’m just a grown up child, still learning. If true, welcome to the club, Leah!

    • Poison Ivy

      Homeland Security? Holy Moly Dodo!

    • Andrew Robertson

      Goodness me Dodo! You’re one of my favourite people and it’s wonderful that you can still surprise me with your wry and thoughtful comments.

      Best

      Andrew

      • sugarplumfairy

        Annnnnnnndrew!! Yay!

        • FLUNK_101

          Boo! You love Andy because he says things like, “there is no benefit,” even though he was never “in.” But if an intelligent, good hearted person like myself so much as says that auditing made me happy once or twice, you think it gives you the right to treat me with contempt. Go fuck yourself, SkankyPigFuck. Ugly skank!

          • Captain Howdy

            Relax Flunk

            Nurse Fairy will be along shortly with your medication.

            • FLUNK_101

              Ahhhhh …… ! I feel better now.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You called?

          • Missionary Kid

            Take what I have to say as one proud to be a wog.

            I’ll concede that you had “wins” while you were in. The problem I have is that you are so defensive about it. In addition, you’ve probably never gone to an {evil psyche} for comparison. Correct me if I’m wrong.

            In my experience, the {evil psyches} sometimes elicit a response from a client in the manner of “what can you take away from our session” or, if a person was dealing with a lot of negative feelings, asked what positive lesson could be taken from the session rather than demanding a written win to end it.

            Neither you nor I can compare the benefits you might have gotten with a few sessions with a psycotherapist or group, because you didn’t take that route, but only you can judge if the cost of isolation from non-$cientologists and the conformity that the cult encouraged damaged the other parts of your life. The only case that I can think of that would be a good thing is if one grew up in or was surrounded by an emotionally toxic family.

            I look at the vitriol that you have towards SPF and MWM as signs that you’re unwilling or unable to admit that the emotional costs of other parts of $cientology, as well as the financial cost were higher than the benefits you received. You are, correct me if I’m wrong, focusing on the benefits and ignoring the costs.

            IMO, They are looking at the overall picture of the auditing experience, which included a lot of inculcation into the cult, while you seem to be ignoring that part. Again, correct me if I’m wrong, but they seem to be restimulating you to an extent far beyond what is usual. On the other hand, they seem to enjoy poking at you a bit, and they don’t back down.

            I’m also wondering if the fact that they are women also pushes your buttons. Those are questions only you can answer.

            If the benefits were so great, why are you out?

            • sugarplumfairy

              I truly don’t enjoy poking at Flunk.. I recognize an issue and I would never deliberately exacerbate a health problem.. Flunk seemed to be communicating very well lately, and I was idiot enough to compliment him on it today.. Lesson learned..

            • Missionary Kid

              It looks to me as if he takes compliments from you as sarcasm. He’s locked and loaded to fire at you and MWM.

              His story, posted yesterday was interesting and without any rancor.

              I’ve seen no reply to my post. If he doesn’t reply, my conclusion is that he’s got a hard-on to fight and he’s shot his wad. My post was all conjecture, but he can dispute it at any time or level. To me, there’s a lot of anger there without understanding on either his part or anyone else.

              Here’s more conjecture: If your description of what his pattern is is correct, I theorize that he had success in auditing as a $cion because it provided a release of emotions that, for some reason, he hasn’t been able to duplicate after coming out.

              He lets stuff build up until he blows up, and that provides release for him.

              When has he ever attacked a man? I wouldn’t know, because I haven’t been here that long. Possibly, he feels safe attacking women online, because there’s no retaliation other than verbal.

              That’ll be 5 cents, please. I’m charging the Lucy rate.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Well, I used to think it was plain old-fashioned bull baiting.. But if your theory is correct and he is getting some relief, I’m happy to be of service..

          • sugarplumfairy

            No.. I’m pretty sure that’s not why I love Andrew….

          • villagedianne

            Well Flunk, I will say that if Scientology did not have something that resonated with people, it would not have such a powerful hold on them when the control element starts. I myself don’t like to see characterizations of Scientologists as “weak minded”, etc. Most people, whether in a cult or not, have been bamboozled at Some Time by Someone or Some Group.
            However, getting that angry and defensive about it IMO does not help the case you are making. Just saying.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thank you, kind sir.

        It’s great to “see” you here again!
        Wishing you a beautiful weekend!

        If I ever will manage to visit gorgeous NZ for a few days,
        I will let you know. It would be great to spend even couple hours in your company there!

  • FistOfXenu

    What a strange twitter answer. Says a lot by what it doesn’t say and how it doesn’t say it. Either that or we’re turning into tea leaf readers and seeing random meaning.

    But I don’t think so. “Catholics pray” sounds like a careful way of not identifying herself as a member of the cult any more.

    Leah, talk to Jason Beghe or some body accessible to you. Some support on the road to real life freedom would be good.

    • Whiningmachine

      It certainly does sound like she’s trying to say it without saying it. However, a loophole just came to mind: Scientology, despite the “There was no Christ” recording, says you can be any religion and still be a Scientologist (talk about keeping your target market as broad as possible). While I don’t think it’s the case, and hope it isn’t (I don’t care about their personality; if they’re harming the church, it’s a good thing, and caveat emptor for the friends), she could equally feasibly be pointing out that she can be Catholic and a Scientologist at the same time. Of course, there’s all the other corroborating evidence, but it just occurred to me that this is still a possible, if unlikely, interpretation of her comment.

      • villagedianne

        Good point, FOX. Of course we know that hard-core Scientologists are not allowed to have another religion. But if she was showing Scientology’s tolerance for other religions, she might say she was both a Catholic and a Scientologist.
        It is also possible she is playing down the Scientology for PR reasons alone.

    • richelieu jr

      It is an intrinsic correction… If you say, ‘Excuse me Miss…?” and the woman says “Mrs…” the message is clear.

      Unless “Catholics pray” was followed by, ‘because they are superstitious morons’, then I think we can take it as she identifies (or wished to be identified as) Catholic.

      A lot of celebs have people who d this social media stuff for them, but I kinda doubt it here… (said as someone who doesn’t know the woman and only knows her from the Sweeney thing, sexy pix on the net and that strange Sci-Fi series I’ve seen ont he plane that takes place in a world where women like her marry fat slobs from Queens.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Leah Remini achieved OT V?

    So did Claire Headley, so there is hope.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Yeah… ‘cept one was probably waited upon, and the other did some of the waiting upon…

  • CurlyShirly
    • BosonStark

      LOL, here’s the kicker in that and this from a woman who dropped out of school at 14.

      On July 19, 2003, Remini married actor Angelo Pagán who also appeared on The King of Queens as Rico and other various characters.[12] They have a daughter, Sofia Bella, born on June 16, 2004. Remini is a member of The Church of Scientology.[3] In December 2005, she helped promote the gala opening of Church of Scientology’s “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death” Museum.[13] Responding to criticism of Scientology during an interview on CNN, Remini said:[3] “If somebody is
      going to get turned off about something because of what they read or
      heard, then that person’s not smart enough to even enter a church. If
      you’re really against something, then know what you’re against.”

      • EnthralledObserver

        Heh heh… yeah, I just picked that out too. Celebrities, eh… they really must think they are a class above the rest just for being famous.

        • Observer

          And celebrity + Scientologist = ego so big it’s a wonder the rest of us haven’t been crowded off the planet.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Indeed.

          • FistOfXenu

            Maybe that was part of LRH’s original plan for “clearing the planet” – dazzle some of us with their fame and shove the rest of us into outer space with their giant egos?

        • Poison Ivy

          Yes, speaking from experience. A good deal of them too.

      • Poison Ivy

        If she was raised in the church, I wouldn’t expect her to have a stellar education.

      • sheepleroom

        Hello irony… she states that if someone gets turned off about something etc, they’re not smart enough to enter the church. So according to that, I suppose she’s gotten dumber as of late.

  • BosonStark

    Yesterday, it was interesting reading on Tony’s blog the variety of ways in which Scientologists became aware of the problems in their space cult as well as how critics-to-be noticed something fishy in Scientology.

    For people like Remini, it’s going to be in their individual absence from promoting it that is telling, just like for the cult itself, the absence of a media spokeshole and the falling away of Tommy “Xenu” Davis from that position.

    It’s also interesting that Remini had that connection to Cruise as a defender, and maybe she did get wind of the Orth article or the Wright book, and realizes that if Tom Cruise needs defense, he can do it himself. I mean he seems to rely on his cult for everything from ego-boosting, to home management, to vehicle customization, to finding dates.

    At the same time, internally, we know that their regging and money begging is RELENTLESS on the existing membership. That is setting a collision course between their behavior and the open exchange of information on how they operate.

  • hogarthian

    You’ve probably seen this:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jul/04/john-travolta-scientology-marlon-brando

    Anyway…. just checking in. I’m reading, I’m listening, I’m with y’all.

    BTN2….. Where are my lovely earrings?! ;-) Shoulda got asked you to post ‘em to DC… ‘cos they’re a present. How I wish I could come and collect them in person.

    edit: ‘shoulda got’?. Hmmnnn OK, I can live with that.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I mailed them long ago, the day we spoke on here in fact. You still don’t have them?
      WTF?
      Usually UK orders are delivered in less than two weeks!!!

      • hogarthian

        Don’t worry your clever, pretty little head. If they arrive, they arrive, if they don’t, then someone else has them…. which is also good, just in a different universe. I think. ;-)

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Let me know. I can always make another pair and get them down the road.
          Besides, it gives me a reason to fire up the drill….whoohooo

  • Sherbet

    The only thing I recall about Remini is that she was touting barley water for feeding babies, and had, indeed, fed it to her daughter.

    • ParticleMom

      Wow, I though that idea had been phased out. Clearly I overestimated the {Church.}

  • Watergate

    Nobody in their right minds who’s in the public eye (much less an actor whose livelihood depends to some extent on their popular appeal) would associate themselves with Scientology. Sounds like Will Smith’s recent treatment in the press might have persuaded her to distance herself.

    • noseinabk

      I don’t think it was the Will Smith thing. I checked her web page months ago and did take note of her lack of Cos charities.

  • EnthralledObserver

    How does one go from being raised in Scientology to suddenly being a Catholic? Especially when your family are still Scienos, and your hubby was/is one too. Why Catholic? Did she just pluck that from the air? If I was going to choose a Christian faith to distance myself from scandal, well… it wouldn’t be ‘that’ one…

    • 0tessa

      You can be a catholic and a scientologist at the same time. Probably until you reach the last level of OT8. There you will learn that Christ was an implant …

      • TonyOrtega

        You learn that in OT III. But Claire Headley has told us that well before that, church members come under a lot of pressure to drop “other practices.”

        • TonyOrtega

          My information is that her father is a Catholic, and Remini always nominally identified as one while she was in Scientology.

          • Sherbet

            According to Wikipedia, her father was Sicilian and (presumably) Catholic, and her mother Austrian-Jewish.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Oh, okay… well that makes sense. I thought she was raised Scieno by both parents.

      • Captain Howdy

        CofS told the IRS in the papers they filed with the IRS that anyone who is of another faith that becomes a full time practicing scientologist is expected to drop their previous faith.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Yah.. They certainly wouldn’t want any errant funds finding their way into other coffers..

          • Captain Howdy

            You can’t even receive auditing if you’re engaged in other “spiritual” practices like meditation. The whole “other religions are OK with us” is demonstrably false.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Surprise…

      • Poison Ivy

        Don’t you remember that video that Karen De La Carriere did where she played the Ethics officer berating the dude for “Other Practices?” I think that includes benign activities like Yoga.

        Tony wouldn’t post this unless there was plenty good evidence. Interesting that her husband denied everything. Perhaps her husband believes he can “handle” and get her back in the fold. But she must be plenty pissed about something to go to all this trouble (and to rock the boat so publicly.) Oh, to be a fly on the wall in their house right now!

        • pronoia

          If I read the post properly, the husband said 2 things: That they are not angry ant the church and if they were, they would handle it themselves. That sounds an ver elegant “no comment” to me.

          • richelieu jr

            Sounds like he’s protecting his wife from getting disconnected from her family to me.

      • I am

        I never did OT8 but learned somewhere in materials through OT7 that Ron thought Christianity was an implant, to my shock. Perhaps, it was running the early OT levels. There was a lot of the New Testament book of revelations that was run. Since I had been lied to that Sn did not conflict with my Christian religion, I was amazed.

        • http://lippard.blogspot.com/ Jim Lippard

          Hubbard quote (audio file circulating the Internet, from Class VIII auditor course, lecture 10, “Assists”): “Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don’t think that it’s an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don’t know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there’s two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified.”

          Audio: http://www.xenu.net/archive/media_vault/Nochrist.mp3

          • I am

            Actually, this is another great big fat lie by LRoon. Historical research has many written accounts of the life of Jesus. I wonder where LR got his data.

      • Natalie

        In the Church of Scientology you would never be allowed to pray while practicing Scientology, especially while receiving auditing. For crying out loud, they blow a gasket if they find out you are masturbating while getting auditing. Them saying that you can still maintain your Christian faith while practicing Scientology is pure PR, and something they say to not alienate Christians.

        • richelieu jr

          Absolutely! Whatever it takes to get you through that door…

    • Sherbet

      Hey, hey, hey, Enthralled, please don’t go there. This blog has gone there in the past, and it isn’t pretty, and people get huffy.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I only meant because it sports it’s own sets of very public scandal… but some people will see what they want to see no matter what you say.

        • Sherbet

          I’m not disagreeing with your last sentence, EO. In fact, it made me laugh out loud, because it’s pretty clever. There’s no denying or defending the crimes that have become apparent in the past few years in Catholicism. It’s just that a few months ago, in the Bunker there seemed to be a lot of, “Oh, yeah? Look at the Catholics/Muslims/Jehovah’s Witnesses/Mormons/Amish for similar abuse!” when people tried to make parallels between scientology’s fakery and other religions. They all have their quirks, faults, and crimes, but it solves nothing, because this is about scientology. It became a bit uncomfortable for people who adhere to some faith. Like me.

          • hogarthian

            Yes, it did. I’m a newbie here (as you know) and I got my fingers burned a little witht he whole ‘other religion comparison’ thing. I know what I think, but now, eventually, I’m realising that I may need to not share everything. Which is a shame, especially in a forum such as this.

            • EnthralledObserver

              It is a shame… and believe me I know precisely what you are saying… ;)

          • EnthralledObserver

            Sherbet, this seriously is the most controversial I would get with this topic, but I have to say that if some people were to get huffy over something I have said, then they’ll just have to get huffy. I’m the respectful kind, but if it needs saying, then I’m going to say it even if it might tread on a few toes.

            • Sherbet

              Absolutely, free speech and all. I just didn’t know if you were in the Bunker back when the spiritual mud-slinging, all bets are off, throwing the baby out with the bathwater discussions were going on, so I was just saying “Woops! Hang on a sec!” I certainly respect and enjoy whatever you say, and you never just blab out any ol’ thing just to get your two cents’ worth in. Hugshugshugs and all that. Forgive me if I sounded strident.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Thank you… and no hard feelings at all. I’m also the kind of person that’s almost impossible to offend. I understand your point and thank you for making it. Also, amusingly to me, I see what you mean with the pile on to defend an errant comment, no matter how innocent it seemed to the maker… haha.

            • Sherbet

              So, Enthralled, shall we go to Sunday Mass together? I’ll pick you up.

              Pul-eeze laugh?

            • EnthralledObserver

              Ok… but I reserve the right to heckle the minister at my leisure… :p

            • EnthralledObserver

              Did I mention the fact that my kids are attending Catholic schools… and they and I are quite happy with the experience so far. ;)

            • Sherbet

              Dominus go biscuits!

            • Captain Howdy

              Holy Mary full of grace, the Masons are in second place.

            • Captain Howdy

              I don’t recall any real “spiritual mud-slinging’ the first time MM bailed. I recall someone posting a few comments about how the L.A Archdiocese was caught trying to cover up it’s sex abuse cases. Anyway, enough about that from me.

            • Sherbet

              Me, too. It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood, and I’d rather hear gossip about Leah Remini.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is my recollection as well.

            • Captain Howdy

              We have excellent memories for being “fuck-ups”, eh?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yep ;-)

            • Sherbet

              You and Bury weren’t paying attention, because you were doing Jell-O shots under the picnic table at the time.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              We may have been doing shots, but we were watching!
              And we saw the whole thing!

            • Sherbet

              And am I {glad} I opened up this can of worms this morning with my response to Enthralled. Night crawler, anyone?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hehehe……ever been given rattlesnake eggs?

            • Captain Howdy

              Sometimes you got to bring the ruckus. Thing is, when it’s over , you forget about it and move on

            • Sherbet

              You’re exactly right, Howdy. And now I’m moving on. Next subject?

            • stillgrace

              Wow … I’m glad I didn’t post the first essay I wrote for yesterday’s event. It was a “TL;DR” analysis of some of my painful Catholic experiences and how they contributed to my “way too open mind” that led to my initial acceptance of scientology. It was cathartic and I’m glad I wrote it, but I think I made the right decision not to post it. As usual, out of respect for my Catholic friends here in the Bunker (I still miss Midwest Mom), the essay concluded with “My story does not reflect the usual Catholic experience.” But still … oh well, enough about that from me.

            • pronoia

              Maybe not the usual experience, but as we all know, Terrible things have happened to children in some catholic parishes, physically and mentally. And I hope that someday you can feel comfortable posting it as it is important for people to learn now to understand how and why people get sucked into cults like scientolgy. In fact it seems to be a real hole in many peoples’ understanding.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              I would love to see that essay.

              I think anyone who is well-meaning will understand that everyone’s experiences are different. If someone who is Catholic can’t even look at the bad experiences someone else has had with Catholicism without flipping out, then they have a serious problem.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you pronoia and Lliira for your replies. I was subjected to an old-school, extremely strict, and cruel brand of Roman Catholic education. I have visited many ex-Catholic message boards. I think it is very telling that I never felt comfortable at any of them. I felt more at home at ESMB.

            • richelieu jr

              Please, please post, or do somewhere we can see it. This is subject I find fascinating and your experiences are just as valid and interesting as anyone elses…

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          To quote my favourite Catholic, my wife, “God made man. Man made the church”. Agree or not, someone thinking that way could abhor some of the actions of Popes and Priests, and still love a personal form of Catholicism. The best parallel I can find in Scientology is a poor one. A church exec, when criticized said to me, “We are only human”. I said, “No you’re not. After level five you claim to be no longer homo sapiens”.

        • Anonymookme

          I think where the whole comparing all religions fails is that you would be hard pressed to find many rank & file Catholics deny, make excuses for, refuse to read bad press regarding the crimes of the Catholic Church.
          I also doubt that many “celebrity” Catholics would defend the church, public ally or privately for the pedophile scandal.
          As a life long Catholic, I’m absolutely free to criticize te church in any way I want to. No fair game, no disconnection, no fellow Catholics tattling on me for my opinions of the Catholic Church failing to protect vulnerable children, etc.
          I can state my opinion & feelings of shame & embarrassment for the crimes committed by the church to a member of the clergy with no fear of being thrown into a “hole” as punishment for not toeing the line.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Yep! Thanks for articulating that..

          • EnthralledObserver

            I made a joke, but I actually seriously wanted to know how Leah decided on Catholicism… as it turns out her father is (and always was) one and she apparently always identified herself as one. So now I know that, it makes more sense why she changed her Wiki to stating she’s a Catholic over another denomination. That’s all.

            • Anonymookme

              I understand and take no offense at what you said. I just think the comparison between the Sciloons and the Catholic Church is lame.
              The CC deserves criticism for their scandals and for the way they handled those scandals, but that has nothing to do with COS and the mindfuck they perpetrate.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Actually I think the comparisons between the CC and the CO$ can be a good thing… they show where the first (CC) acts mostly with compassion and teaches love and righteousness – even when individuals involved don’t always get it right: compared with the second (CO$) which teaches selfishness, greed and acting brutally – even when occasionally some individuals involved don’t get it right and instinctively act like the first (CC or other faiths guided by the teachings of Jesus/Christ).

            • Anonymookme

              It’s apples and oranges. I’m 61. The CC does not have a file on me. My parents weren’t charged for my receiving the sacraments as a child. They didn’t have to sell me to the church as cheap labor as a way to repay the church for my receiving the sacraments of the CC.
              I’m not even a very good Catholic. I disagree with them a lot, and am free to do so.

          • noseinabk

            Very well said. These conversations make me think of people like Tory. What would a lurking scibot think of the “all religions are cults.” view? Would the lurker feel justified and smugly go back to $cientology?

          • Poison Ivy

            Exactly. My late elderly Dad was raised a strict old-world Catholic and later became a Paulist. He protested vehemently against the church scandals – his entire parish was a hotbed of protest activity, in fact. He also spoke out loudly anti-celibacy for priests and pro-female priests.
            Nobody fair-gamed him. And he was not “disconnected” by the rest of his family who had other opinions.

            • Robert Eckert

              On the one hand: the only reason excommunication no longer works like “disconnection”, that apostates are no longer thrown in a hole (or burned alive), etc. is that the Catholic Church no longer has the POWER to act that way. And the reason the church lost that power is because many people fought hard and sacrificed everything to make that happen.

              On the other hand: there is an immense difference between any of the old religions, whether we are talking about Catholicism or Islam or little sects that few have heard of, versus cults like Scientology (or Mormonism, or littler cults). Their beliefs, no matter how strange they sound to those with modern educations, arose as sincere efforts to understand this complicated world, and their moral codes out of an effort to keep societies functional and surviving. The beliefs of Scientology etc. and especially their “moral” codes were fabricated solely to serve the selfish interest of the con-man.

          • pronoia

            Also worth noting: members of the clergy can and do speak out against anuses and doctrines they don’t agree with! Which is why all this Co$ crap about bitter defrocked apostates is so funny. They purporting to imitate a church which no longer exists. (And I am not nor have I ever been a catholic). Oh yes, nuns and priest who renounce their vows are not given freeloader bills nor are they excommunicated!

            • Sherbet

              Pronoia, please do an edit and correct “anuses” to “abuses” before I die of laughter! (Talking about clergy and mentioning anuses, oh, gosh! Noooo!)

            • pronoia

              God. The spell correct in this ipad mini is maddening. I need to get a little keyboard with it because I cannot type accurately with my thumbs!! Thanks for the heads up :)

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m still wondering why your spell check prefers anuses to abuses.

              And yeah I’m gonna leave that sentence exactly like that.

            • pronoia

              Now I am on a normal keyboard and I will explain that I had no right to entirely blame it on spell correct. It began as just a plain old typo. The n is next to the b and voila! One does not have to travel far to go from abuse to anus or vice versa.

              Keep in mind that spell correct has a mind of its own. Tricksterish.

            • Sherbet

              Nope. Not going to comment. Too easy.

            • richelieu jr

              It is a Catholic keyboard and sees no difference between the two. ;) (sarcasm font, or whatever you kids are saying these days!)

            • Sherbet

              I think the subject of heads up anuses was covered a couple of days ago.

            • FistOfXenu

              Just an afterthought. It’s never a good idea to agree with an anus.

            • pronoia

              Well it has been an annus horribilis for the the Co$. In fact every annus gets so much more horribilis what we see now for them is anni mirabiles, a very good thing and is why I would not disagree with all anni. Or an annus in particular.

            • richelieu jr

              My childhood priest was defrocked for speaking against the church. It happens all the time. For both good and bad reasons.

              The US Bishops, with the imprimature of the CC asked people not to give communion to John Kerry, a practicing Catholic and to vote for Bush,a non-Catholic on the issue of abortion. Denying the sacraments is otherwise known as excommunication.

              I am not anti-Catholic, far from it. But I am an ordained minister with a doctorate in comparative religions, and I obviously feel there is interest in comparing religions and in not sugarcoating the truth.

            • pronoia

              Excommunicated also?

              I have known pretty radical priests and nuns who didn’t have much good to say about the church/Rome hierarchy and haven’t been defrocked or excommunicated. I suppose it depends on the parish and also the times. Things have changed a lot in the last 30-40 years.

          • richelieu jr

            Oh, I know LOTS of Catholics over here in France that will; I just heard again today that the whole child molestation controversy is a homosexual plot to stain the names of good Catholic priests. And I am so not kidding.

            • Anonymookme

              Well, they are lying to themselves and to you. That amazes me.
              The perps in the CC child sex abuse scandal should be in prison, as well as those who covered it up.
              The only American Catholic I’ve ever heard attempt to blame the victims is that loon Bill Donahue from the Catholic League.

      • sugarplumfairy

        I appreciate why you say that, Sherbet.. I’m catholic and anti-catholic rhetoric almost always offends me.. But censorship offends me more..

        I really miss Midwest Mom.. I hope nobody else leaves in a huff.. But I say we harden our shells and let everybody say what they wanna say.. Unless it’s unnecessarily gross or evil..

        • Poison Ivy

          Me too. I hope she comes back.

          • Sherbet

            Me, three. I hope she’s lurking.

          • Captain Howdy

            Me also, but like the Man said “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”. Also “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”.

            • Sherbet

              The funny (almost) thing is, the disagreements came up about a poster who doesn’t come here too often anymore.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you Howdy for your wisdom. It’s always a rush, my man!

            • FistOfXenu

              You forgot “a bird in the hand will crap in it”

            • Captain Howdy

              This is my mantra, courtesy of my pops “Wish in one hand, shit in the other. See which one gets filled first”

            • Kitz

              LOL! I’ve told that to my girls for most of their lives! (They are 25 and 24)

          • FLUNK_101

            She left because I’m a jerk?

            • sugarplumfairy

              No.. She didn’t leave because of you.. We actually like when you’re a jerk.. Then we get to blame it on co$.. And we love blaming co$..

              Btw, it’s been a pleasure interacting with you lately.. Thanks for that..

            • FLUNK_101

              And when you act like an asshole should we blame it on catholicism? Go fuck yourself, sugarplum.

            • sugarplumfairy
            • Captain Howdy

              Hallucinating?

        • Sherbet

          I know, sugarplum. We do walk a fine line sometimes, and, having grown up in a strict home where open discussion was discouraged, I’m on the side of freedom of speech in the Bunker and elsewhere, even if I, personally, don’t like the subject. Just remember one man’s “gross or evil” is another man’s “being honest,” hence the fine line. Quips and silliness aside, I try to remind myself that this is a scientology-watcher’s blog, and the idea is not to get derailed into side discussions too much. That’s all.

          • hogarthian

            Hey Sherb…. I have to say though, that I really, really, do not understand how you can have a deep discussion about Scientology and not mention any other religion. I know that we all know that Sci isn’t a religion at all. But then, ask an atheist and they would say ‘what’s a fucking religion?’. I’m an atheist, not an agnostic, an atheist, and I struggle with expressing my thoughts. People get offended, what can I say. I can only say that if someone called me out for being an atheist, I wouldn’t shut them down and say that it wasn’t appropriate to mention it. I, myself, my own opinion, is that all religions are cults. Absolutely and without question. However, if someone can arrange to meet me and give me the means to explore why and how I could be wrong, then I would love that. I believe, but I’m not closed, to anything. Well, other than blatant brainwashing. ;-)

            • Sherbet

              Maybe it was before your time in the Bunker, hogarthian, but we had some pretty emotional discussions. I don’t think being called out for being an atheist is the same thing as having the basis of one’s faith ridiculed. Nobody can ridicule the basis of your faith, because you have no faith in a higher power. But when someone says, God is imaginary, ALL religions abuse their people and are money grubbers, that’s offensive to somebody.

              But, you know? It’s just too hard to try to figure out what can or should be said in an open blog without imposing rules. And it’s too hard to try to make everyone happy. So I’m going to go backwards here and, with all apologies to EnthralledObserver and anyone else, let the games begin. Let it all hang out. I don’t want to portray myself as stuffy and easily offended, because I am not. Really, I’m not.

            • hogarthian

              Awwwwww, that’s lovely! I’m not gonna start heckling religions, well, not today, it’s not cocktail hour yet! I will say this though…. and maybe it’s just me…. why would anyone get offended that someone else thinks that their beliefs are unbelievable. I know that I wouldn’t.

            • Sherbet

              Give it the same perspective as scientology. When we say the Xenu story is beyond unbelievable, we’re saying the people who have accepted it on faith are really sort of foolish. And a favorite come-back from trolls and scns is that all religions have unbelievable scenarios of burning bushes and dead people rising. True. BUT, since this is a scientology-watchers’ blog, the big differences are (1) we’re not really here to ridicule scientology’s BELIEF systems, and (2) no matter what the IRS says, an abusive, money-mad corporation of slavers, law-breakers, and liars with a foul-mouthed “COB” is NOT a church. “Church” implies faith, belief, spirituality. Aside from belief in Xenu, who sees any of that in cos? I think that’s about it from this gal. Love you all. Got work to do. I’ll check in later.

            • hogarthian

              Sherbet…. I think you’re fabulous. But the downside of me thinking that you’re fabulous is that I respect you, totally. And if I respect someone then I need to also tell them how I feel. Open lines of communication, right? Because I’m an atheist, I believe that all ‘organised’ religion comes under number 2, the only exception is that I’d be hard pressed to find a (publicly) foul mouthed COB (or equivalent). I love you too x

            • richelieu jr

              I disagree, Sherbet because athiests are told all the time tha tit is impossible to be moral without God, which is a load of bollocks, but still true. Being called immoral, sinners, and the greatest threat to America, all of which I have heard atheist called in the US in the last decade is quite insulting, I believe. Just because someone believes doesn’t make their feelings or sensibilities any more precious or important than anybody elses.

            • Sherbet

              Sorry for the late post, richelieu. I didn’t realize atheists were so reviled.

            • Kitz

              *nods in agreement* I hear people say that all the time… That only Christians can have morals, or be ethical, and live in “polite” society. *sigh* Since the US is culturally Christian anymore, if someones worldview does not fall within that category they couldn’t possibly have ANY morals or ethics!! GAH….

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              Hear, hear! Ditto for me.

            • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

              If you are convinced that there is nothing that distinguishes the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology from other religions, then I’m not going to go out on a limb to argue with you.

              Don’t forget that there are cults which have no religious element whatsoever.

              I belong firmly in the “deeds not creeds” section of the room, where the actions of the group determines my attitude, but the actually religiously held beliefs are what dictates these actions (“SP” doctrine, notably). So, it’s tricky to separate actions and beliefs, and I do believe that the actions of the Co$ are different from the actions of other religions.

              As for more tools to work with, there a bunch of references on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-cult_movement . Can’t personally recommend one over another, but it’s perhaps a starting point.

            • hogarthian

              I didn’t say that I was convinced that there was nothing that distinguishes them. I said that I believed that all religions are cults, of one strain or another. There is much that distinguishes them, there needs to be…. they need to cover the disparities of opinion that are inherent in a huge global population. Thank you, Jens, for your link, but maybe you misread my sarcasm for a genuine appeal for guidance. PLEASE don’t be offended (how difficult is it to express oneself in situations like this without sounding offensive?!), and I do, genuinely, appreciate your efforts. However….. the dearth of links offered by atheists in order to offer those lucky enough to have a faith a ‘starting point’ to non belief, for me, says everything that I’m trying to say.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              It depends on how you define “cult”. Many religions shade into cultish aspects, the Catholic Church being the easiest one to point to in our society because of the administration’s evil actions and cover-ups. But look at the members, the actual “body” of the church. I’ve never known any Catholic who followed what the Vatican said, and yet they’re still considered Catholic by the Vatican, so no, they are absolutely not a cult. I’m sure there are some Catholic sects that are cults, but there are some everything that are cults.

              Cults don’t allow disagreement. And they don’t have to be religious. One can identify a cult by its behavior, not by its beliefs.

            • richelieu jr

              Technically if you don’t follow the Church’s teachings, you are not a Catholic and ineligible to partake of the sacraments. You may still think you are a good Catholic, but the Church would beg to differ. The difference is you aren’t imprisoned, fined or separated from your family for your beliefs.

            • Robert Eckert

              Only because the church no longer has the power to do those things.

            • richelieu jr

              Oh most assuredly. Amazing how much nicer they got when they were no longer all-powerful isn’t it?

              And how quickly they can become undemocratic and not-so-nice when promised it again (see “Nazi Pope”, Mussolini creating the Vatican)

            • Bella Legosi

              Here it is!
              http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1570

              I read this to my mom a few months ago when she was going off about the Vatican allowing China to appoint their own Bishop; instead of the Vatican itself!

              Reading it kinda made me sick. I was actually going thru old papal bulls from way back when. I am still disgusted! I just got done with the “Infallible” bull……..everyone needs to take a non-LRH sabbatical every now and then right? LD

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              You’re not even disallowed from taking the sacraments in most U.S. Catholic churches if you do these things. The Vatican would very much like the power they had a few hundred years ago, but they’ve lost it and are losing more all the time. Being “Catholic” is now a power vested in the person calling themselves that, not in the Church.

            • Kitz

              The word ‘cult’ can mean different things though. In the academic sense (pulling this from an anthropology class I took awhile ago) means a group of people with the same beliefs. It has no negative or positive connotations, but has come to be synonymous with destructive groups in the near past. The ancient Norse had cults to their gods, where offerings and sacrifices (gifts) were made in hopes of receiving a gift from the god in return. In this sense, these were centers where anyone could worship the god of the hof with other followers of the same god.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              Yes, I know, but we’re not in an academic setting. Random people on internet message boards mean something very different by “cult” than historians do when they refer to “the Cult of Isis” and such.

            • Kitz

              True, we are not in an academic setting. I was merely using your post as a jumping off point to remind of another definition. As a follower of a worldview that does include cults to our gods, I get a bit touchy about broad brushing such as your statement of “One can identify a cult by its behavior, not by its beliefs.” since ours ARE identified by beliefs.

              I’m not trying to nitpick or cause problems, but to let you know that by the definition that I use, any group with the same beliefs are a cult… Be it the different sects of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, ect. I just feel that since the term ‘cult’ has been twisted to mean destructive and dangerous groups, this definition needs to be understood as well. *shrug*

            • monkeyknickers

              I sincerely don’t understand why we are expected to “respect” a religion. Do most americans “respect” Islam? I seriously doubt it. I respect people for sure. But the club they belong to? That has over and over AND OVER again killed millions of innocent children and adults?

              Folks – in the face of that argument, OR actually whenever you reference the old testament – say, of COURSE you would choose THOSE examples.

              Which is essentially like saying yah god made us slaughter our brothers and sisters and rip up pregnant women but geez, I gave my dad a father’s day card.

              PS That example is one I ripped off from . . . . somebody. I can’t remember who. :)

            • Remy

              The problem is that you have co-opted the term religion to include all spiritual practices (correct me if I am wrong). You can certainly be against the shady nature of certain organized religious (although I would argue some are pretty honest and transparent).

              But people, to greater or lesser degrees, incorporate personal practice in to their daily lives, and to the extent that this occurs outside of an “organization” I think you start running in to trouble saying it is all “stupid.” Take being “present in the moment” for example. Medical imaging does demonstrate that prayer and meditation change cerebral activity substantially.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            What are these “rails” you earthlings keep speaking of???

            • Sherbet

              Look to your far left or right, and you’ll understand, grasshopper.

        • FLUNK_101

          You have less than zero right to complain about anyone insulting your religion.
          You harassed me endlessly, just for describing my experiences being audited. Something that actually happened, only you tried to tell me it didn’t! As if you know better.
          I left Scientology in 1980, and you still gave me such a hard time it made me sick. I had to leave the blog for a while.
          All those times you insulted me, I could have easily said something about your being Catholic, but I never did.

          That, my dear, is the difference between me and you.

          I’m smart enough to know we all have the same human minds. Atheists like Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett may be intellectual heroes to me for what they know about science.But unless you know an awful lot of science, you most likely believe something about the world which isn’t true.
          I still respect religion. I’ve always said I’ve learned important lessons from both religion and science. I know that it’s only human to believe, and that none of us are all-knowing.

          Flunk

          • sugarplumfairy

            I’ve never once insulted you.. And i never will, Flunk.. No matter how hard you try to get me to… I lovvve you, Flunk.. can’t you feel the love?

            • FLUNK_101

              Yeah, right.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Loving you is easy, ’cause you’re beautiful.. Lalalalala..

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uU6aYNXnUk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

            • hogarthian

              Sugar…. why is Flunk being so rude, even I’M shocked (and my frontal lobe is fashioned from asbestos). Or is it a game? Oh dear, I think I’m over tired.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Not really sure.. It all started earlier, a few minutes after i gave him a compliment.. I think he’s bull baiting.. but I’m from the school of ‘he who angers me conquers me..’ I’m just sorry the rest of you have to read it.. So, no worries, Hoggie.. I’m ok.. The pissier he gets, the better my score..

            • Captain Howdy

              Love and Risperdal.

            • stillgrace

              Heh heh heh! You said it best once. He’s our “Sid”.

            • Captain Howdy

              He’s radio rental.

            • hogarthian

              Clearly.

            • stillgrace

              No game. He’s been around under various names and AV’s {forever}. He posts like a normal person for a few weeks, even contributing very interesting stuff (except for some serious suck up from time to time), then gets butthurt over SOMETHING or NOTHING, and then seriously insults a Bunkerite. I mean over and over again. Boring, actually.

              There’s always the theory that he is a thinly-disguised, infiltrating troll that just enjoys occasionally stirring up shit here in the Bunker, which I’m starting to believe.

              Feel free to ignore him. He’ll be back, acting and BELIEVING that the insults never happened and even if they did happen, they certainly weren’t HIS fault.

            • Captain Howdy

              HeeHeeHeeHeeHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

        • richelieu jr

          Whatever happened to ‘Bob’?

          • Captain Howdy

            He was here yesterday.

          • sugarplumfairy

            He’s still commenting.. I think he posted a nice comment yesterday..

    • hogarthian

      I agree with what Sherb said, but only because Sherb’s right. Not because people who get wound up about the comparisons are right. In other words, you’re right EnOb…. I really, really, do not get it, at all.

    • pronoia

      I bet here husband was raised catholic and reportedly he was a rather reluctant Scientologist. Remini sounds Italian and maybe she was actually christened at birth. Catholic sounds more believable than Baptist in her case. And being a catholic is convenient. You can be one while never ever going to church.

      Maybe the reason she was picked to promote Tom and Katie to the world (and to scientologists?). since she had first hand experience with being in a relationship with a wog. Maybe after seeing what happened to Tom and Katie she decided to choose her marriage over the cult.

      I would not be surprised if celebrities can avoid disconnection by keeping their mouths shut – the church does not want public Scientologists to catch on about these defections because every time they hear about one they run to the Internet and we know how that turns out!

  • sugarplumfairy

    Yay! One less scientologist in the world.. It will be interesting to see what happens.. Sooo.. How come, after everything that has happened and continues to happen, is Travolta still touting co$.. Can they really have that much on him? He can’t be stupid.. Anybody competent enough to fly a plane can’t be stupid.. is he doing A-E? I just don’t get why he’s still in..

    • hogarthian

      Oh Sugar T….., I mean Sugar P!….. he has SHITLOADS to hide, god bless him (if I believed in god), he’s beyond shitting himself. He’s spilled his guts good and proper and needs to stick with it. Fuck, I’d really hate to be that scared of anything. Poor sod.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      People don’t go in for intellectual reasons. They go in for emotional reasons then use their intellect to justify it. They will stay in longer than a poor dumb guy like me, because they will be better at defending their foolish decision. Also, he did all that dissemination on television. He presented Scientology as a good thing to millions of people. It must be hard to turn around after that. Is that part of the motivator sequence?

      If Travolta is not gay, I’m really bad at putting evidence together. By the way, I always thought the “Cruise is gay” stuff was poorly determined so I was right once. America seems to accept “gay” now. Being gay might even make him more popular. But there is all kinds of stuff that can be done within gay that is considered socially, even legally, reprehensible. My wild stab is that Travolta did gay stuff that Americans will just not accept, and he fears that will come out if he leaves the cult.

      Hey, I have never even met the guy so take this with as many grains of salt as you wish.

      • Espiando

        I’m just wondering what the definition of “gay stuff that Americans will just not accept” would be. Kiddie-fiddling, of course. But the definition of what “Americans will accept” expanded greatly thanks to 50 Shades of Grey. If JT did a little light S&M, that would probably be acceptable. What wouldn’t? Well, it probably boils down to a pretty common phrase used in gay personal ads: “Dislikes: pain, blood, scat, and watersports”.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Here, we will not accept an adult having sex with an underage person and it is a criminal act. Sex with more than one person at a time is a criminal act and has resulted in one of the largest arrests in our country’s history (google bath house raid Toronto). Public sex is criminal and has affected the lives of people I know, including a co-worker who suicided. While prostitution is legal in Canada everything surrounding it is illegal.

          Destroying the life of any person name Paul Barresi is not acceptable and illegal if done through libel. Making a mockery of what so many gay people have fought for by going on TV with your wife and acting unduly lovey-dovey should be illegal and probably is in blue states.

          Being in the chorus of Broadway shows and claiming to be straight is illegal in New York, New Jersey and Conneticut. Having more than one closeted actor on a popular TV show (Welcome Back Kotter with Ron Palillo) is illegal in California. Dancing with a Princess when gay is illegal in all monarchies. Being a fat, bald, gay, Scientologist while pretending the opposite gets the death penalty in Texas and in all states where there are righteous thinking people. Same goes for fat, bald, gay Jews which is why William Shatner has never been seen in Texas. I mean, have YOU ever seen him in Texas. Have YOU ever heard Captain Kirk say anything remotely like, “Sarah-Jane, hitch up the horse”? Well, that’s why.

          • FistOfXenu

            :o

            You could be in stand up with that

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Not many know this but I am Jackie Mason. I have used my OT powers to go back in time to when I was funny.

            • FistOfXenu

              Next time you’re back there could you do me a favor and watch what really happened to LRH? And find out WHERE’S SHELLY?

            • Captain Howdy

              That was freaking outstanding.

            • Sherbet

              Don’t go back in time to the Ed Sullivan Show incident. (And that reference indicates what a fossil I am.)

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Mason, said that he had to protect his reputation and sued Sullivan for 9 million dollars. They settled for 2 million dollars. He took a seven million dollar loss on the deal.

              He turned the corner from sarcastic to nasty. Too bad. He was really something and as far as I know, never a Scientologist.

            • Sherbet

              You know who I think lost his edge toward the end? George Carlin. He was ahead of his time and sharp as a tack, but as he got older, he thought he could generate the same humor on the same old material. His schtick became the curmudgeonly ex-hippie with the naughty words. Then, of course, he got sick and passed away. But when he was still on his game, he was fantastically funny and topical.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              There was a pole at the end of the 20th Century, naming the greatest stand-ups of all time. Carlin was #1 and he just might have deserved it. I would think that Rodney Dangerfield and Lenny Bruce (who is mostly remembered through books and the Dustin Hoffman movie) might have been as deserving.

              Carlin did an HBO special very late in life where he went on about atheism, America, politics, sex and the usual subjects. The audience howled. I didn’t though. I thought that he had thrown away the humour while keeping the vitriol. He had become boring.

              In a way Mason has done the same thing, but in a sadder way and with less flair. I went to his website and listened to him ranting on about various right wing causes. I thought his statements lacked insight and contributed little to the discussion. Friends told me that he was being funny. I had missed that entirely.

            • Sherbet

              I think Robin Williams said, referring to doing his act while on cocaine, that people laughed because he was Robin Williams and it was the expected response. The audience laughed because they were supposed to. But he wasn’t funny, and he knew it.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I had never heard that one. It is nice to hear. I think of Robin Williams as a brilliant man. With Steve Martin the greatest comic of the 1980s. In fact, I could add both their names to possible greatest stand-ups of the century. I would put Martin slightly above Williams but only because he went after Scientology at the academy awards and did Bowfinger.

            • richelieu jr

              I think people only laugh at Williams because they get the reference and think it’s funny they can follow the riff;. There are no jokes to speak of, and for me no laughs (can be a great actor though..)

              Great Standups (IMHO, and based only on ones I’ve seen, preferably live):

              Louis CK
              Jerry Seinfeld
              George Carlin
              Bill Hicks
              Mitch Hedberg
              Steven Wright
              Bob Newhart
              Bill Cosby
              Milton Berle (really!)
              George Burns
              Tig Notaro
              Jack Benny
              Lewis Black
              Drew Carey
              Chris Rock
              Patton Oswalt
              Eddie Murphy
              Jim Gaffigan
              Zach Galifianakis
              Andy Griffiths
              Gilbert Gottfried
              Buddy Hackett
              Jake Johanssen
              Andy Kauffmann
              Tom Lehrer
              Sarah Silverman

            • Missionary Kid

              Williams’ riffs are heavily dependent on knowledge of American popular culture, as was his hero, Johnathan Winters.

              Physical comedians can easily move into dramatic roles, like Carol Burnett.

            • Captain Howdy

              I can’t believe all you guys have left out the man who is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest, stand up comedian of all time…Richard Pryor.

            • richelieu jr

              OMG I left him off? Truly unforgivable, and even difficult to believe as he is in my top 5! Supernigger was my fave disc of all time until my folks confiscated it!

            • sugarplumfairy

              If Ron White’s in town, I’ll drop everything and go see him..

            • aquaclara

              Carol Burnett, and Martin Short, plus up arrows to Ron White and Steve Martin. Jimmy Fallon. Newhart. You have a fab list here.

            • Bella Legosi

              YES!

              Bill Hicks!

              You forgot Lenny :(

            • richelieu jr

              Bruce is the one that really came apart. At the end he was just sitting there, choosing topics from the newspaper and ranting about them until the cops showed up…

            • FistOfXenu

              Lenny Bruce. There’s a guy that’d be better rated if people heard more of his stuff. Way ahead of his time and no outlet. I heard a lot of comedians after him you could tell they borrowed from stuff bruce had said 1st. Like Bruce’s n***** routine. After Bruce I heard other good comedians riff on the word but he’s the 1 that kicked it off and he did it right.

            • MissCandle

              Be careful what you say about GC. He is a clone of my husband…or the other way around.

            • Sherbet

              Mum’s the word, MissC.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            BAAAHAAAAHAAAA

          • Captain Howdy
            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol..

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              What film is that from. I’d download it based on those 17 seconds. And, as far as I can tell, not a Scientologist was involved.

            • Robert Eckert

              “Inglorious Basterds”

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I own it. Time to watch it.

            • Captain Howdy

              Director Eli Roth acted in the film, and he was going pretty steady with Peaches Geldolf for awhile..just sayin’.

          • richelieu jr

            Well very funny and quite the riff, but the Shat is not gay and quite the horseman in fact.

      • FLUNK_101

        ’70’s flashback: I knew a guy high up in the GO. He said sometimes Ethics Officers from different continents would sit and talk about the most outrageous overts and withholds. The big winner was a guy from Australia who stole a Giraffe from the zoo on a flatbed truck and hung it from a lamppost in a ritzy neighborhood. That, and what a promiscuous homosexual John Travolta was.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          I heard stories, too, from people who were once close to him but I really don’t know what to believe as fact.

          As for human nature though, I have a right to my opinions. After Saturday Night Fever, Travolta took up with a woman named Diana Hyland. She was twice his age and he stayed at her side as she died from cancer. She was reported to have literally died in his arms. Well maybe that did happen, maybe not.

          Speaking personally, if I had been the star of a huge movie that portrayed me as the sexiest guy in Brooklyn, I’d be having sex with at least 365 different women in the next year, even more if it was a leap year. So would every heterosexual guy I know.

          I think what Travolta was doing was hiding in a really deep closet that no one would dare open. Did you ever see, La Cage aux Folles, the French version, not the Robin Williams version? There is a seen where a gay man has to act straight and he just doesn’t know how. His friends wash the make up off his face and dress him up in a business suit. He is presented as a family man. He is then asked how many children he has. He responds after a pause as though he is thinking. He responds, “Huit,” as though with any lesser number of children people might still be suspicious of his sexual preferences. It is the most memorable scene in the movie. I think Travolta was doing much the same thing with the older, sick woman.

          I won’t be coy any longer. I heard that they tried to hang the giraffe from the lampost using Travolta’s dick.

  • sheepleroom

    I remember during the BBC documentary “Scientology and Me” John Sweeney asked her about Xenu and she looked totally perplexed, not defensive like the other women he interviewed. It seemed like at that time, she hadn’t completed OTlll and didn’t know the Xenu story yet. I wonder what her level was at that time

    • TonyOrtega

      She did OT III in 2003. The Sweeney documentary was filmed in 2007.

      • sheepleroom

        Ok thanks. I suppose she was just caught completely off guard and that was her reaction in order to claim ignorance.

    • sugarplumfairy

      She is an actress..

      • hogarthian

        Summed it up in one. Well the fuck done!

        • Sherbet

          Hogarthian, did you contribute any postings yesterday? I didn’t notice, and I’m sure you have an interesting story, too.

          • hogarthian

            No Sherb. I didn’t. I’m really up against it at the minute, behind in everything ( I just had a rude vision there, or maybe that’s just me?). At least I don’t think I contributed? Maybe I did? I swing between periods of razor sharp incisiveness and periods of alcohol induced wollyness at the minute, so I may have done!

            • Sherbet

              I’m laughing here, hogarthian! Don’t worry; we’ll just invent your story. (It worked for lrh.)

            • hogarthian

              What was it?! I’m intrigued! Just point me in the right direction… I’m proactive enough to join the dots, I think.

            • Sherbet

              Nah, there’s enough fiction in the cos for any of us to add to it. Some day, you can tell the story of how you ended up a scientology watcher.

      • sheepleroom

        yes I understand but so are Juliette Lewis and Kristie Alley but their reactions were shock, denial and for Alley, anger. I suppose Remini’s simply a better actress :)

        • hogarthian

          Ok, so, if being an ‘actor’ is not enough…. combine being an ‘actor’ with being brainwashed. Clearer picture?

          • sheepleroom

            well yes of course, they’re clearly manipulated people; I was just mentioning the differences between them. I’m pretty clear on how controlled their minds are.

            • hogarthian

              I’m sure you are. I’m just saying… there are as many subjective perceptions as there are people. We’re all gonna react a little differently.

        • Chrissie

          Juliette hasn’t done the OT Levels so her shock and denial are real. Kirstie has been on OT VII for over 15 years that I know of.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Well, Kirstie does have an excess amount of body thetans….

            • Chrissie

              haha BTN2! Kirstie was actually one of the nicer celebrities. I have spent time at her home but she is also super eccentric and odd!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I like her too. I think she is funny.
              And I love to make fun of her.
              I need a new Kirstie AV!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              Use the finger one.

          • sheepleroom

            Interesting because it seemed like Juliette was all “Shhhhhhhh!” with her face when they started mentioning aliens. Like, “Nooooooooooo.. you’re not allowed talking about that part!”. I didn’t know she was ignorant to the information.

            • Chrissie

              Sheepleroom, Juliette is actually genuinely cool and caring. Last I knew she was on the PTS/SP course for the 5th time or something like that “because there are so many SP’s in the entertainment industry” (her words). She has been at Clear forever, unless she has moved on the Bridge in the last 3 1/2 yrs since I have been out.
              I grew up with her and her siblings. They were all raised very unorthodox and as Scn. I would say her biggest downfall is believing the “authority” which is funny because she comes across as a rebel.

            • Anonymookme

              Interesting. Leah, the one possibly leaving the church is a bitch, Krusty and Juliette who are are Sciloon fanatics are Sooper Cool!
              Mmmmmm

            • Chrissie

              haha Anonymookme! I wouldn’t say Sooper cool… Krusty I have heard was a fruit cake she was always nice to me but never had a reason not to be… Juliette I grew up with and was friends with her. Both of them are super eccentric… You got it right about Leah tho and that’s probably what sets her apart =)

            • Missionary Kid

              Sometimes people come across as rebels because they’re actually conforming to some aspect of their family life that others don’t see.

              I was actually quite a conformist to my parent’s religious dictum, but to my secular friends, I appeared as a rebel because they couldn’t understand how different my parent’s standards of behavior was from theirs.

              I don’t know if it applies to Juliette. I had come to be uncomfortable watching her because of her beliefs, but she has my sympathy if she’s had to go through the PTS/SP course that many times.

      • richelieu jr

        She gives that same look when asked if she had an orgasm.

        It’s either acting or the Jewish side of her ancestry (rim shot!)

    • pronoia

      They were obviously all coached to feign astonishment and/or outrage.

      Just watch Tommy Davis. In 2008 he went on CNN one morning after a huge demonstration in LA to present the church”s perspective. After the host got order with the descriptions of anonymous as a hate terrorist group, he said the editor of the VV had written that the religion is really about freeing yourself from space alien beings. And Tommy Davis answered “does that sound silly to you?” Without missing a beat.! Obviously well coached on that point. Then a couple years later he is being interviewed by Piers Morgan who asks him about Xenu. And this time he feigns offense, rips his microphone off, and storms off the set.

      Faux shock and outrage, part of the TRs of being a cult spokesperson.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah, I’m not sure I get the trope about Tommy being such a bad spokesperson. he seemed passionate and sincere, and besides that what can he do with the load of crap he had to pint gold and sell as Krugerands?

        Plus he’s got COB screaming what to say in one ear, a jillion books full of ridiculous contradictory lies from the beaked-one, and informed, aggressive people asking pertinent questions, If he tells the truth, the Church gets found out and gets a black eye, if he says what COB is screaming he comes off as a looney (which is why DM’s testes shrivelled up after NightLine and now he makes his minions do it), and if he tries to play it off as ridiculous to get better PR, all of the $cilons see him lying and the knives are out.

        it is the most impossible thankless job since being Kirstie Alley’s nutritionist.

      • FistOfXenu

        Yup. Just like Tommy faked being “angry, very angry”. Good luck to him finding a real emotion he doesn’t have to practice and fake.

  • Mary_McConnell

    Well, this is encouraging news…. glad you are going to follow up on this!

  • Sherbet

    After yesterday’s heart-rending tales of scientology’s despicable legacy, today’s Hollywood dish is a fun about-face.

  • Ivan Mapother

    When Jason Beghe left the cult, he slammed the door on the way out. Those with family and businesses reliant on the cult, tend to leave quietly so as to not disrupt their way of life.

    • pronoia

      Actually, he did try to leave quietly at first. But then they started up with their disconnection tech and his kid was suddenly cut off from her friends and kicked out of her school and that is when he began to roar. And also there was money issues — he had paid money for courses never taken and he wanted it back.

  • Cymboli

    This is what I’m hearing right now.

    Another One Bites the Dust

    • sugarplumfairy

      Imho, this would have been a much better choice for big being musical chairs..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I can’t up arrow that enough.
        perfect!

      • MissCandle

        You are right and that song is sickeningly appropriate for that bizarrely insane event.

  • AKlein

    I just finished reading yesterday’s comments. I have been lurking here for a few months. So here’s my story a day late. I am a never-in and have never even met an actual Scientologist that I know of! Several months ago, I saw Jamie DeWolf on The Young Turks and was fascinated! I immediately checked out all the books I could from the library. I happened upon this blog from xenu.net and have read it everyday since. I wish there was something I could do to help shut down this evil cult. I have posted stuff on my FB page and I don’t think anyone looks at it. I think I sound like a crazy person when trying to explain this shit! It’s hard to explain to people that there is this weird, alternate Orwellian universe that exists in our country. I look forward to the true face of the cult hitting the mainstream.

    Something else has been on my mind. A couple of weeks ago on Penn Jillette’s podcast (Penn’s Sunday School) he said that they never did a Bullshit episode on Scientology because they are just crazy and everyone knows it. Nothing else to see or tell. Six months ago, I would have agreed and moved on. I would like to send Penn an educational email that is short and to the point. Any suggestions on a couple of links that I could send Penn would be fantastic.

    Here’s Jamie’s performance:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ

    • Missionary Kid

      Why does Jamie keep repeating the mistake that LRH got “a penny a page” for his writing, when it was a penny a word?

      • AKlein

        artistic license? Sounds better than penny a word.

        • Missionary Kid

          That’s what I was thinking.

          The problem is, that’s about 500 times lower than what he was paid, assuming that there’s at least 500 words to a page, which is a low count. A penny vs. $5.00 is a pretty large difference for the price of a page..That jarred me out of my appreciation for the piece.

          • AKlein

            I still like the piece. People unfamiliar with Hubbard wouldn’t even notice and focus on it. I noticed it and let it go as artistic license. So, on the whole, I think the piece is aimed more at people unfamiliar with “the God” and it may get someone interested in finding out more.

            • Missionary Kid

              Agreed, I like the piece. It rocks.

            • Semper Phi

              The penny a page thing bugs me too, but overall the piece blew me away when I found it right after I walked away from Scn. I was still processing the fact that there *was* an LRH Jr., and there was his grandson doing this amazing piece about LRH Sr.! I think it’s fantastic and very effective.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen. I’m glad it helped.

              BTW, is your AV name from being in the Corps?

            • Semper Phi

              No, it’s from Phi Beta Kappa, the national academic fraternity of which I am a member. I was always one of the “smart kids” in school, but when I got to Flag to do my tech training I completely fell on my face. Got bogged, took forever. I went from being a “smart kid” to being a moron. And at Flag, the slow kids are not treated as “special,” believe me. It was a completely traumatic. I chose my nickname when I was freshly out and starting to reclaim my intellectual self esteem. Hence semper (“always”), and Phi.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. Many of the names here are puns, so I thought Phi could be a take on Fi, for fidelus. Instead it’s a pun brought about by the mixing of Latin and Greek. Clever.

              You probably did poorly at Flag because you are the type of person who wants to understand a concept in the broader sense than the limited, rigid, definitions that Co$ insists on. The loss of IQ points was probably temporary, but the intellectual techniques are going to have to be regained.

              Glad you’re out.

            • Semper Phi

              Yeah, I really didn’t fit in with the study tech crowd. For example, I just never bought into the teaching that if you didn’t understand one of LRH’s concepts, it was *only* because you had a misunderstood word, never that the concept didn’t make sense. Well that just didn’t make sense to me! I mean, some concepts *are* just wrong or stupid. Ironically, I was a course supervisor. In retrospect, that must be one reason that my cognitive dissonance was so horrendous.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think you’re exactly right. I’m surprised you lasted so long. They must have gotten their emotional hooks into you. That can bring about a lot of rationalization.

            • Semper Phi

              I actually didn’t last that long. A year after I got home from Flag, I told them I wanted to leave staff.

            • Missionary Kid

              How long were you in, total?

            • Semper Phi

              Exactly nine years, from my first beginner course through routing out and closing the door behind me. I was on staff for 5 years, at Flag for much of that time.

            • Missionary Kid

              You must have had the cognitive dissonance stifled by your emotions until they popped. I have a theory that emotions are like air mattresses. You can hold them down in one place, but they pop up in others.

              Co$ does all it can to work on everyone emotionally and to stifle the individuality. Were you very conflicted when you finally left?

            • Semper Phi

              Before I told told them I wanted to leave staff, I was a mess, but once told them I felt much less conflicted. Being on the routing form was frustrating, because of course the whole point of the form is to slow people down and give them a chance to come back to the fold. All the auditing and ethics handlings actually built my certainty that I was done, though at the time I just said I needed some time off and didn’t want to burn any bridges. However, I was still vulnerable to the feeling of being cast out of the group, even though I was the one doing the leaving. But no, I wasn’t at all conflicted at the end. I was ready to get my life back.

            • aquaclara

              So glad to hear your story, Semper Phi. What a tremendous conflict you must have felt. A tug between the emotional woo-woo of the cult, a desire to do well, a willingness to study hard, and then, BAM!! LRH’s blatherings aren’t really making any sense…..
              It is easier to see that from here, than there. Of course, we have Claire Headley helping here.
              Hope you are enjoying life now!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Soooo glad you’re out and here with us, Semper Phi..

            • Semper Phi

              Thanks! Me too…

          • pronoia

            His primary audience is not the few weirdos like us out their in the world who know all about this stuff. And if you really listen to the piece, it is not just about LRH and his father and him. Many of us carry family demons in our dna and history. Gifts and curses — both of which Jamie de Wolf illustrates in that piece.

            There are so many levels that the piece could be deconstructed. I would love to see a transcription of it — though I have seen a couple of versions of it as he has been doing it for a while and is obviously — as all performance art is — a work in progress.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think it’s a good piece, and I like it. I agree it’s about family secrets. I agree it’s artistic license, but it bugs me. I’ve enjoyed the different videos of his performance, and will watch it again.

              It’s not like catching the end of A Few Good Men (It was being shown back to back and I was waiting for the second showing) and having a drink snorting, eye rolling, expletive filled moment when TC snaps to attention and salutes without cover (without a hat on). As a former Marine, that practically goes against my DNA, because that is such a glaring violation of Navy and Marine tradition.

              I realize that it was artistic license, and wouldn’t have meaning to someone else, but as much as I like Nicholson and Bacon, I didn’t bother to watch the film. That action by Cruse destroyed the suspension of reality that I enjoy when watching a movie.

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks MK. I react like that some times and then think I’m being obsessive or something. And then it ties in with my own private thing about how I relate to the Corps now so I think I should just stop being so anal (not a mistype or spell check error) about it. It’s a relief to know some body else reacts the same.

            • Missionary Kid

              Most people younger than us haven’t been in the service, let alone the Corps, so they don’t understand how ingrained the saluting protocol is. It’s not a matter of being anal, it’s a matter of being glaringly false to anyone who’s been in someone who’s served under the Secretary of the Navy..

          • richelieu jr

            I know PK Dick was making between 500 and 5k per novel (much shorter than LRH’s stuff, however the pay was determined…

            • Missionary Kid

              LRH’s career was essentially over when Dick was writing. The only reason BE got to be popular, IMO, was that there was a massive effort among the clams that got people to read it out of curiosity.

              I never bought a PKD book, but I sure read his stories in anthologies and library books.

              LRH’s work can’t be turned into a decent movie for two reason. The original material is outdated or sucks, and the Clams venerate it too much to keep their hands off of it.

              Phillip K. Dick had vision. LRH just had bullshit stories.

            • richelieu jr

              I was only comparing thema s pup SF writers who bashed out stories at an alarming rate.
              Dick wrote the greatest stuff ever, more philosophy than SF.. Hubbard wrote the worst ever, crappy philosophy that seems more like crappy SF…
              Do yourself a favour: rRead a DIck novel.. Most of his shorts are more routine, some of his novels are true classics…

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree about Dick. It’s just been a long time since I’ve read his novels. I assume you meant to write, “reread a Dick novel.” I will.

              LRH’s life was all about deception by bullshit.

      • Robert Eckert

        Maybe the editors wouldn’t pay Hubbard more than a penny a page, even though a penny a word was the going rate for more skillful hacks. It would certainly account for some of his writing habits.

        • Missionary Kid

          At a penny a page that wouldn’t be paid until publication, LRH would have nearly starved, even at depression era prices for food, let alone afford living quarters.

          LRH always put out what I consider overwrought drivel. That especially applies to his {religious} writing.

          • Robert Eckert

            At a penny a page, Battlefield Earth would net him a total of about a dozen bucks.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s not worth it at that price.

            • Roger Larsson

              A
              penny/page is two pennies/sheet. Ron Hubbard’s sheets save needy without any toilet paper in the loo.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ron Hubbard’s ‘sheet’ saved what???

              Sorry Roger….

            • Missionary Kid

              It provided cheap toilet paper for the poor.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I was joking again…

              But apparently not very well…..

            • Missionary Kid

              Sometimes (my friends claim it’s always) I’m slow. :-)

            • Missionary Kid

              Why do you think I came up with the sarcasm font? I need visual aids, sometimes. :-)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Touché

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I didn’t get it either. I just thought you got Larssonized into an MU. Ha!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              TP Bury, tp.

            • Roger Larsson

              Bad paper quality??? Ron had a roll of butcher paper connected to his typewriter. If he only had owned the brain to use kitchen paper.

            • richelieu jr

              He does have the brain and countenance of a butcher…

            • Missionary Kid

              Appropriate. Tack så mycket.

            • FistOfXenu

              It was all Humbug horsesheet anyways. I remember reading somewhere that SO slaves never had enough toilet paper. I like to imagine they had all those copies of LRH’s old writings instead.

            • pronoia

              But a penny a page has a much better alliteration, don’t you think?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        He also calls the bridge a ladder, or pyramid.

        I get stuck on these stupid details!

        • Missionary Kid

          At least I’m not the only one to get stuck. Over all, I like the piece, but the details can be distracting.

        • pronoia

          He is a poet fer cryin’ out loud! Not some unimaginative literalist fundamentalist who has to word clear every single word or concept into oblivion!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Yep. And he is awesome!
            And he also bugs the fuck out of me!

            • pronoia

              Why, because in a very weird way, he is evocative of LRH? As he says, the dna runs strong on that branch….

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Actually….maybe!

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            “The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter — it’s the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.” ~ Mark Twain

            Poets should be particularly careful with words.

            And LRH was absolute shit with words.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank goodness, Jamie is much better as a poet than LRH ever was as a writer.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              Absolutely. Though “better than LRH” isn’t exactly high praise; I think dung beetles are better writers than LRH. But yes, Jamie is actually good. He just needs a little more editing.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re right. I should have put more distance between Jamie and LRH. Jamie is quite good.

            • monkeyknickers

              God do I love that man. How dare he get old and die before I got to snatch him up! I’m starting to think that Mr. Twain is avoiding me. Hm. :)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I, to, am a huge fan of that man!

      • richelieu jr

        Alliteration, would be my guess..
        A penny a paragraph
        a scheckel a sentence
        a nickel a noun

        • Missionary Kid

          I put that under poetic license. It’s just too far out of his actual pay by about 500 or more percent that it’s jarring to me. See my other replies on the subject.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Welcome, A. There is nothing that any of us can do, alone, against Scientology. As a group, however, we seem to have brought them to their knees. The knockout punch could come at any moment, or not for decades. Either way though, the chances of the young, ignorant or needy being sucked in has been hugely diminished. In posting here, in putting up the FB page you are certainly part of that.

      I have met Penn, after his Las Vegas show. He is very open, not at all the untouchable celeb that people might assume. I subscribe to his youtube videos. He is among the leaders in getting people to face reality. He either knows the critical sites or knows how to find out about them. But if I was introducing someone to Scientology criticism it would be through xenu.net.

      My understanding is that he wanted to do a Bullshit episode on Scientology but it was vetoes by higher ups because they worried about the problems that would occur with Scientology defending themselves. He said publicly that he was OK with that because, while he thinks Scientology is nonsense, it is not at the top of his list of organizations that he has a visceral loathing of. (Personally, I don’t believe him on that last part.)

      Some Scientologists are very nice, some are not. Some are absolutely odious. While this is also true of the general population, Scientologists lean more towards the odious.

      • richelieu jr

        If Penn wanted to do it, it would be done. I am 100% sure of that.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          I assume that the threads trail off after Tony puts up a new topic. I just want to thank you for your four responses.

          • richelieu jr

            ;-)

  • Spackle Motion

    I doubt that Remini left although usually smoke = fire. Most people leave Scientology quietly and try to stay under the radar because of family members that are still in. But that Twitter exchange only tells me that she’s avoiding the question/topic, but that’s par for most Scientologists.

    I do believe that speaking out a-la Beghe style is the only method of really being “out”, and unless Remini received horrid treatment she’s likely still considered “in” but maybe she’s pissed at some recent treatment. This is why I also have doubts about Lisa Marie Presley being “out”. There are rumors that she’s still “in”.

    So unless we get a Beghe or Haggis-like exit, we will likely never know the truth. So I will doubt that these moronic celebrities actually see the light and gtfo.

  • Chrissie

    Leah’s husband Angelo was not a Scientologist for a long time. In fact, they broke up shortly before they were going to be married because he wouldn’t do Scn. He eventually gave in and “became” a Scientologist but it was mainly to keep Leah.

    Leah and I were on our OT Levels in Los Angeles at the same time. We were both waiting for our approvals and ethics was giving her a hard time for her Maxim cover or whatever it was where she posed half naked.

    I am not a fan of Leah. She is one of the meanest, rudest people I have ever met but she is definitely not a door mat and if she is personally wronged she will speak up and fight back.

    She was in the Sea Org as a teenager. She left and pursued acting and did well. She is one of the few exceptions of ex-SO people who are allowed to be a poster child for Scientology. There is a rule that if you are ex-SO you cannot be in publications and such.

    She may be taking her lead from Lisa Marie Presley who has obviously left but is quietly staying on the side lines so she doesn’t lose family. That game can be played for quite some time but it always ends up exploding at some point.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      So Leah was in the Sea Org and left and was later allowed to do the OT levels?
      Hmmmm.

      I didn’t think that was ‘allowed’ as a ‘degraded being’…

      Oh wait….nevermind

      • Chrissie

        LOL BTN2, Ex-SO can do the OT Levels after paying a “freeloader” debt and “making up the damage for their evil ways”… Being Ex-SO mainly bars a person from being a “poster child” as the Ex-SO member is a “degraded being”… I know so complicated. Everything in Scn is complicated and contradictory!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I will never pin this shit down!
          It is impossible!!!

          • Chrissie

            BTN2, seriously it took a life time of indoctrination to “understand” it. My husband and I laugh when we try and “explain” it to friends and family. The more we talk the more gibberish comes out of our mouths. Can’t believe we believed this crap but that’s what happens when you grow up in it and it is normal.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I think this is why so many people laugh off Scientology.
              As soon as you start to really discuss it you can’t help but start talking gibberish. Then people look at you like you are the crazy one, when in reality it is the subject that is crazy.
              But it is also deadly serious and horrendously damaging.
              That paradox makes it very difficult to reconcile, and virtually impossible to easily explain.
              I think that is one of the reason the subject fascinates me so much.
              It is like a giant un-solveable riddle.

            • Chrissie

              You nailed it… an un-solvable riddle!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Money solves Everything in $cientology. $cientology is Only about the Greatest $$$ Grab from the Greatest Number of Dynamic Dupes. When you begin to buy the propaganda that it is Anything else, only then does it appear to be a confusing riddle. It is the sign of a good con, and scientology Big League Sales Managers and high priced attack Lawyers have perfected it. They took notes and tips from the Buying Protection or Else gang and molded it into a Buying Eternity or Else plan.

              Miscavige has finally stepped on his own d*ck this time. You used to be able to buy protection from the Ethics mongrels for less than $100,000 or if you were family or friend of the Celeb or Whale club you would have “get of hell” passes. The more cash customers he loses, the higher the stakes and the fewer free rides. I can’t even guess the price for keeping your child out of the sea org now. But expect more of this kind of story … “As the Whales Turn”

            • FistOfXenu

              Yup. And by the time you get away from the pure crazy “who you kidding?” stuff to the way evil stuff, people start doing that polite thing to change the subject.

            • http://scamofscientology.nl/ scamofscientology

              This, 100%. Whenever I tell friends about my quirky hobby, they are fascinated at first. But once I start talking about the real abuse, the child labor and stuff, they notice I am emotionally involved in that particular aspect of my hobby. It makes them feel uneasy and looking to change the subject. Funny I’m not the only one who experiences that.

            • richelieu jr

              Boy, do I know what you’re talking about..!

              Xenu is cute and funny, more than that is.. Why are you so interested in this stuff? It’s icky, depressing..!

            • Marie Claire Wolf

              Unsolveable and unlovable.

          • Observer

            It looks like Kirstie is flipping off her boob in your avatar.

            She’s been pretty quiet lately–no “it saved my life” defense of NarCONon, no attacks on those who discredited her LRH-based weight loss system. Very uncharacteristic for such a rabid Scilon. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in her house.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I would not like to be a fly on the wall in her house..
              She would find that fly and put a poofy pink dress on it!
              And possibly eye shadow!

              she is weird like that!

            • Robert Eckert

              Or she might eat it

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              She may be quiet…but JT is sill at it: ‘I don’t think I would be here without Scientology.’
              http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jul/04/john-travolta-scientology-marlon-brando

              On the other hand, here is an interesting piece: ‘Is Scientology to Blame for Beck’s Mediocre New Songs?’
              http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/countygrind/2013/07/beck_scientology_to_blame_for_mediocre_songs.php

            • richelieu jr

              I knew both Beck and his brother pretty well in the early 90s (I played on Beck’s early stuff, and we had the same producer).. We always spoke about Beck’s spacey but direct stare and way f coming at things sideways which now I recognize as specific to $cientology, but never, in hundreds of hours of time together, did I ever hear anything about $cientology. I wouldn’t have been able to recognize tell-tale terms anyway, but I am pretty sure the subject might have come up, as my girlfriend at the time had recently been ‘kidnapped’ by a Sciloon who tried to get her to convert,a dn at a recent concert I’d played at the Celebrity Centre, they tried to keep our instruments so that we couldn’t leave until we ‘heard them out’ and ‘stayed for the fun!”

              When I heard Beck was a Sciloon, I plotzed!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              You do have a story or two to tell! Your g/f was kidnapped?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Unrelated Q: somewhere along the line you mentioned that the skull in your AV was something you actually dug up in France. What period is it? Those sure are some big eye sockets! Anything else found with it?

            • Robert Eckert

              He said it was “trepanned”, which is to say a piece of skull was surgically removed, which is actually useful to relieve swelling of the brain sometimes, but was done in medieval and ancient times out of a belief that it would let demons out.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              thanks. now there is a rabbit hole… (no pun intended)

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              awww come on, do tell about the skull… didn’t mean to pry if it is a sensitive issue or something

            • richelieu jr

              ??

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Guess you didn’t see my post (two down from here).

        • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

          The irony is the true degraded beings are the ones who never wake up and spend their entire lives in the Sea Org.

      • Captain Howdy

        I think it’s called the “If you become rich & famous, all is forgiven” tech.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Uh huh! *nods*

        • ze moo

          “All is forgiven” if you donate lots and publicly drink the kool-aid…..

        • DodoTheLaser

          True fact.

      • Jgg2012

        it is beyond a wog’s comprehension. Only an OT8 can understand why it is not contradictory.

    • cindyplahuta@msn.com

      Chrissie, I agree with you, when Lea was in the HGC at AOLA, she was extremely foul mouthed. Every other word started with F. This is interesting news as her friends are the whos who list of the Church, Jenna Elfman, The Ribisis, etc.

      Leah, if you are reading this, make an announcement. You are a tough girl. Tell us what you really think. Lead the way out for your friends and family.

      • Chrissie

        Cindy, Leah is an interesting creature. From what I have heard she has “falling outs’ with these various people quite frequently but as you have experienced her “social” side, you could see that her “friend” side is even more abrasive!

    • Racnad

      They gave her a hard time over being in Maxim? Where does LRH say that one should not pose for “glamour” pictures?

      • Chrissie

        From what I over heard it was because she was “half naked” oh my! haha

        • Racnad

          What’s the LRH reference on posing half-naked???

          • Chrissie

            Ha! All of Science of Survival.. don’t you know ALL woman are cheating whores!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              He established that in his fiction, and then again in Dianetics!

            • Missionary Kid

              The same could be said about LRH, couldn’t it?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Speaking of LRH fiction… I was the one who bought that first edition of “Fear” on ebay. Haven’t had time to delve into it yet but hopefully will have a book report soon. (I am so woefully behind on my book list…).

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Sweet, actually, it is kinda interesting in a dated way.

            • richelieu jr

              It’s pretty much the best of his stuff.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Mission Earth’s sex and family lives of Hubbard’s hero and heroine Jettero Heller and Countess Krak, and Hubbard’s The Way to Happiness, are probably the boundaries for the “second dynamic” (sex, children and family life).

            • pronoia

              Oh my. Is that why Jett was named Jett?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              never thought of that…

            • Robert Eckert

              Neither did I but I think pronoia is probably right.

            • Observer

              My first thought when I read that too.

            • Poison Ivy

              Oh dear. I thought it had something to do with JT’s plane fetish. But to name a kid after a Hubbard character – face palm again!

          • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

            Probably “Pain and Sex”.

        • Roger Larsson

          We have arrived all to the world naked and we leave it naked. Why don’t people live their lives naked? I lived a life on a nakedbeach in Botany bay in Sydney; Australia during a month and it was the best month of them all in my life,,,, and I have thereafter been in $cientology and i’m in a possession of making a opinion of the difference of $cientology and a month on a nakedbeach in Botany Bay in Sydney, Australia.

        • richelieu jr

          I don’t normally agree with SeaOrg types, but I personally am against Leah being “half naked” as well… C’mon Leah, why do you even have to get dressed?

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=29700

        Topless OT girls are nothing new!

        • Captain Howdy

          Thanks Chuck..hee hee

          • Synthia Fagen

            See, I think Leah would laugh at that. :)

      • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

        I once made a crack to a Sea Org recruiter about Playboy doing a “Girls of the Sea Org” pictorial. He didn’t think that was funny at all.

        • richelieu jr

          Out Ethics!

          In Ethics!

          Oh my Ron, put your ethics in me!

          Now take them out!

          In ethics!

          Out Ethics!

          IN.. OUT….
          Oh bloody ‘ell.. R! H!

        • Andrew Robertson

          I notice the ‘OSA Babes Gallery’ put together by Mike Gormez a long time age is still accessible!

          http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/osababes/main.html

          Andrew

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. Operation Clambabe..

          • Missionary Kid

            My question is, how many have blown?

      • FistOfXenu

        Maybe it’s in those private affirmations? When he talks about all women wanting him does he ever say they strip naked and throw off ALL their clothes? Toplessness would be cheating him. :P

      • Poison Ivy

        Given the way he liked his Messengers to dress, I can’t imagine he’d complain!

    • monkeyknickers

      I wish I could take all these peoples’ faces gently in my hands and say – this shit is ALL MADE UP. This is MADE UP SHIT. You know? You don’t have to do abandon your mother/father/child. Ever.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        You have no reality on the power the Church has over its members. No one dares to walk out on us without having to pay and pay and pay in so many ways.

        • monkeyknickers

          I know you’re evil and everything, but I ADORE a wo/man that knows the difference between it’s and its.

          Coffee?? :)

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            We graduated from Delphi Academy and were taught that such things as apostrophes and commas are evil and suppressive. Wog punctuation things are why COB had to issue the Basics in order to save the Scientology religion. Anyway, we forget what the rule is on its and it’s. But we do know what “itsa” is. Do you?

            • Remy

              Delphi Academy via Le Rosey, pehaps:)

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!
            • Remy

              Je joue au tennis, pas de course NASCAR.

              Nous n’avons pas rencontré. Sauf si vous êtes ce monstre qui a essayé de pousser un crochet dans la gorge d’une truite.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Nous aimons NASCAR, si non ce n’était pas vous. Mais vous pouvez toujours rejoindre la Sea Org et le travail au Celebrity Centre Paris. De cette façon, vous allez devenir riches et célèbres comme Tom Cruise.

            • Remy

              Parfois, quand je joue au tennis, je pense que Tom Cruise a une maladie. Peut-être qu’il est malade dans la tête.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Non, il s’agit d’un OT.

            • monkeyknickers

              It was the name of an italian joint a couple towns over. “Itsa Pizza!” They had lunch specials and once my cousin got caught trying to steal money out the till.

              Am I in the ballpark at least?

  • Aslansown

    I’m a day late too and wanted to leave my comment. While getting my Master of Divinity in the late 70’s/early 80’s, I wanted to learn as much as I could about cults. I don’t remember exactly when I heard about Scientology but I immediately started doing lots of research on it. I think it was when I read about Lisa McPherson and that author in NY (can’t remember her name) I became horrified by it all. I found Tony at VV during the Tom/Katie thing and have been here every day since then. I have so much compassion and respect for those who have managed to escape.

    Just a question — do you think her family still in would have to disconnect with her? I know there are different rules for different people, depending on their status. Maybe they wouldn’t if she kept quiet about her exit. Just wondering — and also wondering who knew to change her Wiki page.

    • Robert Eckert

      “that author in NY (can’t remember her name)” You mean Paulette Cooper?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I think Reitman.

      • Aslansown

        Yes, thanks. My mind hasn’t woken up yet. I was really horrified when I read about what happened to her.

  • villagedianne

    I remember that Remini was on one of those nanny reality shows. The issue was that her toddler daughter was waking up multiple times during the night and demanding and getting her bottle. Remini was seeking help because no one could get any sleep, and the child was overweight. The nanny said the child was “running the house”.
    It was not on the show that I recall reading about but presumably Remini was following Hubbard’s advice to let the child make it’s own decisions. Another fail for the Hubbard philosophy of child-rearing.

  • ze moo

    Trying to gauge a persons ‘commitment’ to CO$ from a few twitters and a brief history is a daunting task. It is easier to guess who is #2 or 3 in the North Korean hierarchy then how much someone hates Xenu. Remini was in the past a very public shill for the scam. That she has stopped identifying as a clam is perhaps a sign of the publicity disaster membership in the Co$ has become. A ‘B’ list actress with a resume likes hers can’t be too wacky and expect to find work.

    Those who touted NarCONon are being reminded of Georgia and Arrowhead and the deaths there. The public is holding clams responsible for their public utterances and the TV public are voting with their eyes.

    Leah is holding CO$ responsible for something and letting them know about it in a very ‘down low’ way.

    Maybe she is just tired of the 4 year sec check before she starts OT 5 or 6???

  • Bradley Greenwood

    The Twitter exchange made it staggeringly clear; she did it in an excellent way. Unfortunately, I would pay big dollars betting she never publicly disparages the church…or DM.

    • Sunny Sands

      That’s 3 scilon celebrities who come to mind who said they are now following Catholicism: Nicole Kidman, Katie Holmes and Leah Remini.

      • Missionary Kid

        Nichole and Katy started there, and Tom was their inoculation to Co$.

        • richelieu jr

          And Nicole never even really pretended to drink the koolaid.. That’s why she was disposed of.

          • Missionary Kid

            Yup, and Katy, according to rumor, was smart enough to play along and consulted with Nicole via a burn phone before she blew.. I hope she publishes because apparently in the divorce agreement, she’s free to say what she wants after a year.

            I hope she’s got him by the short hairs. She must have, because Nichole had the kids used as blackmail.

            She may not say anything because TC’s Suri’s father.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              There is a book in the works now–read something about it recently. I agree, I don’t think she will cut down Suri’s father.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m hoping for a few choice words about the church’s interference in her life.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Oh, I’m sure there will be something on that score!

      • pronoia

        They all started out there. If Leah Remini’s father was catholic, I bet she was christened at birth.

      • Bradley Greenwood

        The Catholic Pope does not smack his subordinates around, unlike the Scn “pope”.

    • pronoia

      I wouldn’t bet on that. In fact, I would say that it all depends on whether or not the church can restrain itself. Just sayin’.

  • Ms. B. Haven

    I have no idea who Leah Remini is, I’m not into following celebrities and Hollywood stuff. All I can say is that everyone who leaves needs to do so on their own terms. I know most Bunkerites would love to have these celebs come out swinging Jason Beghe style, but it is not about that. At least not at first for most folks. On an personal level a lot of damage has been done and people need to do whatever is necessary to take care of themselves first and foremost. As was clearly evident from the amazing posts yesterday, there are lots of ways people leave.

    For me, I was one to slip away quietly under the radar. I needed some space and freedom to think and process what I had been through. I needed to read and get more information to confirm my suspicions and intuitions. I am basically a coward and scaredy-cat though, and not one to expose myself to imminent danger. That was decades ago and things have changed these days and scientology doesn’t pose the threat that it once did. This is the result of brave and courageous people speaking out and risking everything to do so. Think Jon Atack, Gerry Armstrong, etc. Those were dangerous days. All those people are real heros. The world is changing and it is much easier to speak out if that is the path that you chose. I make my meager postings available here in hopes that my experience may resonate with a few curious folks who may be sitting on the fence and need some reassurance that it is ok to look, it is ok to think for yourself and make your own decisions. You don’t need the assistance of a friendly ethics officer to help with that. After many years of silence I have also found posting here to be very therapeutic. All of this will end at some point and it will be time to move on to other things. Right now I am just starting to get some ideas about simple and personal ways to get the word out to those who are still in and have the blinders on. Time to start rekindling old connections whether they want it or not. I can’t save the world, but I might be able to get through to some old friends. Maybe. With the Basics, GAT I, GAT II (soon), Super Power (when???), Ideal Orgs, IAS (up your stautus level) and media flameouts, those blinders will be easier to remove. At least for some, and that is a start.

    I also want to say how much I really admire those 2nd and 3rd generation folks who have had the courage to leave. For me, I made my own choices and am willing to take responsibility for my own stupidity, gullibility, self-denial, misdeeds (yes, crimes to put it more honestly), wasted time, wasted money, wasted energy and everything else that goes along with being a scientologist. That is not the case with those born into the church. For someone raised in that mindfuck and be able to come out the other end is truly amazing. The Truman Show has nothing on them. For those that do this and are able to speak out too, a double tip-o-the hat to all of you.

    If Leah is really out, best of luck! Hopefully hubster will be hot on her hot little heels and they can get on with a life free from ethics officers, regs, ‘briefings’, ‘events’, status level raisers, OSA ‘volunteers’ and other bottom feeders.

    • Missionary Kid

      That was beautiful, Miss B.

      I will say here that if the internet had been around when I was a Christian, I would have moved much more quickly away from the fundamentalism I was raised with because resources with differing viewpoints are much easier to find.

      I too admire those who took a stand to split away from Co$ when there was really not much of anything for support, and only a few resources to temper the viciousness of the church’s persecution of exes.

      I should hope that everyone who is thinking of leaving Co$ avails themselves of the many resources available to make the transition less painful.

    • disqus_SPiN5N4Adl

      I agree. The celeb thing makes headlines but isnt what attracts me to follow Scientology’s current goings-on. And besides sometimes people can only leave if it’s done quietly. This has been expressly ackmowledged on websites that excourage/explain how to leave.

      • Anonymookme

        The whole “celebrity” Sciloon thing is the least interesting thing about this horrible cult to me. I mean the fact that NEWSFLASH! CELEBRITYS ARE MORONS! Is kind of ho-hum.
        That said, I think a lot of comments like some have posted today about Remini being a bitch, and Juliette & Krusty being harmless, fun loving flakes, really can influence celebrity watchers.
        I hope she is a big, scary, bitch. Makes her chances of escaping the cult even better.

        • Missionary Kid

          I disagree with the generalization that celebrities are morons. They’re like the rest of the population, but the actors tend to be more emotional, and some have bought into the idea that they are somehow entitled to be treated better than anyone else.

          • richelieu jr

            They also in my experience, tend to fall into the way of thinking that says ‘I am famous. I earn an obscene amount of money that no one could possibly ‘deserve’ I have to put this to good use…”

            They are constantly solicited for charities and other causes that want to use their money and fame to (often quite lauditory) ends… When they find a ’cause’, be it Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for The Beatles or Anti-Vaccine nonsense for Jenny McCarthy, they tend to go whole hog on the issue..

            Scientology plays on this, and how.

            • Missionary Kid

              They can also take the attitude that infects televangelists that they are blessed with wealth because they are right in their beliefs and god is rewarding them for being right.

              The often convince themselves that chance, or a fad has nothing to do with their success.

              You’re right. $ciontology plays on all of the weaknesses exposed by fame.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Reminds me of this guy: “Pastor Solicits Congregation For Helicopter Repair Donations”
              http://theurbandaily.com/2473678/pastor-asks-helicopter-repairs-video/

            • Missionary Kid

              I saw that one. The worst example of hubris that ended up in a jail sentence was Jim and Tammy Faye. They’re the ones who believed that they must be doing god’s work because they were prosperous, as one critic put it.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Now you see, if Tammy Faye was really doing god’s work, he would have put waterproof mascara on her path.

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s not mascara. It’s caterpillars.

            • Missionary Kid

              She actually had her makeup tattoo’d on. I think she had fake eyelashes.

              I always thought her make-up was designed by a clown college reject. It really was war paint.

              She was supported when times got tough by many gays, because her message was that god loves everyone.

            • Robert Eckert

              I at first read that as “they must be doing god’s work because they were preposterous”

            • monkeyknickers

              I LOVE THAT. :)

            • Poison Ivy

              That too. ;-)

            • Poison Ivy

              Geez.

            • Poison Ivy

              I think there’s always the (cynical) tax advantage part, but many actors have a secret “I don’t deserve this” complex and so giving back makes them feel like better people.

          • Poison Ivy

            Agreed MK. I take great offense at the facile generalization that all actors are airheads and morons. First of all, acting (acting well, that is) is not easy. That’s a myth. It’s long hours, intense and emotionally draining work; and on a set (or a stage) there is an enormous amount of pressure. Even on stars. Secondly, I’ve worked with and befriended quite a few celebrities, including some very big ones, household names. They are like anyone else who is successful – some are egomaniacal narcissists who act like entitled children and others are all about the work and maintain a certain level of humility. And everything else along the spectrum in between. Think about it. It takes a very solid sense of self to be able to withstand the flood of fawning sycophants and “yes men/women” who emerge from the woodworks the minute someone “makes it” – it is really the equivalent of love-bombing on steroids. And like cult love-bombing, the person being “bombed” generally has a lot of insecurities and self-doubts going into the fame thing, so he/she is even more susceptible to the flattery. People who go into acting often have a childlike “look at me”complex. A former colleague of mine gives speaking tours where thousands of people scream his name at every stop. For those with lots of empty spaces to fill, that kind of extreme ego inflation is like heroin. In fact, I think fame in itself is a real drug. Witness the reality stars and their 15 minutes of it, and how pathetically they struggle to hold on to it.

            But I know plenty of actors who got in it and stay in it for all the right reasons: because it’s their gift; it’s a natural high in itself when you’re in the zone; it’s a magical thing to be able to make a living off of your imagination; and it can be one of the most challenging and scary professions out there. If you’re someone who can’t stand the sameness of most professions, acting is exciting, and ever-changing. Rarely will two days be the same – even doing the same play every night for a year offers different challenges. Also, it’s a crap shoot. It’s a risk. It’s unstable and your star can always fall. You’ll find the most “normal” actors are the great character actors whose names you might not remember but they’re always working. Also, you’ll notice that a lot of stars from different countries don’t act as spoiled as Americans (or Bollywood stars!). Had the opportunity to be tangentially involved with a huge international production in Italy some years ago; a series cast with some of Britain’s top, most respected actors. Several big names you would know. It was NOTHING like working with the same type of actors in Hollywood. The whole cast were delightful. British actors for the most part get the joke. They are highly trained, take their work seriously, but know how to have fun. And though they truly care about their performances, they also know they aren’t doing rocket science. And that they’re not better than everyone else.

            Sorry for the rant, but honestly, I think there are equally as many emotionally unstable (and “moronic”) people behind the scenes as in front of it. Certainly just as many egomaniacs. I think actors (as MK says, who must have a certain sensitivity) are just more susceptible to the dark side of fame.

            We also allow that bad behavior here in America with our actors, and that’s another rant for another day. Something I don’t agree with. We create our own monsters; you don’t see a lot of that behavior tolerated in Britain as well; certainly not in television.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I enjoyed your rant PI. Well said!

            • Poison Ivy

              Awww, thanks PTBA2 ;-) & MK!

            • Missionary Kid

              Agreed. Well put.

            • monkeyknickers

              Yeah, what Ivy said!

            • DodoTheLaser

              Thank you for this great insight, dear PI!

            • cicely neville

              Great writing PI. You make it so clear.
              We make ‘way too much of {celebrity} . I see it as a sickness in our culture. It eats people up.
              It’s been observed that athletes, especially very young ones who focus on their sport to the exclusion of a complete education, have very poor social skills. Do you see that this is true of actors, too?

            • Poison Ivy

              I think a lot of actor kids – like some of the child actors I know now – are just born with a natural confidence. But for others, it’s just the opposite: when I was just a little Ivy and got into acting (was not the direction I chose, thank God, but I did love it while I did it), I really was drawn to it to overcome my extreme shyness. But what it teaches those of us with poor social skills is how to “fake it” as a person who can communicate and function with others; not how to feel comfortable in your own skin. In fact, acting teaches us to be comfortable in ANOTHER skin. Which is a high in itself, and great for kids like I was with crazy active imaginations. But for instance, I could get up in front of an auditorium and sing and act like I owned the world, but I was terrified of giving a speech in class “as myself.” I guess like Scientology, it gives you tools to get along in the world, but not the “inside-out” confidence that makes for a peaceful, balanced, serene person. These days, I aim for the latter.

            • cicely neville

              Thanks PI. And you make a good point. Only life experience can give that inner strength, and there’s no way it can be bought or taught.

            • Poison Ivy

              Ain’t it the truth. That’s why the easy solutions are so tempting…until we realize they really weren’t the easy way at all.

            • wontons

              The other day, someone mentioned a documentary on character actors. I saw it, and I was especially struck by the one who said he was OK with doing auditions because it meant he got to act.

              Acting is a strange art in that, unlike so many others, like painting and writing (I’m a poet), it’s not something one generally does on one’s own. So being reminded that actors crave acting as much as I crave putting words together is really valuable. Thanks for the reminder!

              (Trying, though, not to think of the tabloid headline “They’re Just Like Us!”)

          • Zana

            Being an actor is a strange experience. I know because I was a professional actor in Hollywood for over 20 years. You are either a hero or you wait tables and can’t get credit. You go on audition after audition after audition hoping that you will win a role… and most of the time you don’t. You start over every day and your livelihood depends on a “whim.”

            I did over 250 commercials and lots of television and stage in my career.

            When I was on the set shooting a national commercial the ad man took me aside and said, “Do you know why you got this commercial?”

            I said, “No.”

            He said, “Because my 5 year old thought you were the funniest one on the tape.”

            I was horrified to realize that my financial independence depended on a whim of a 5 year old.

            So… I respect her going quietly right now… if indeed she has gone. and she is trying to sort through what to do about her family, if they are all still in. It’s a difficult position.

            I, myself, have told all the people I introduced to Scientology what is going on. And I’m having a happy life. A VERY happy life. :-)

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for the insight. May you and her be at peace.
              It brings to mind, to paraphrase a comment in a story by Robert Heinlin about the military that could apply equally to acting, and that is that military tactical organization is made up of 3 departments.
              The Dirty Tricks Department, the Practical Jokes Department, and the third, that is staffed by one elderly elderly GS-9 clerk who is out on sick leave most of the time, the Fairy Godmother Department.

              It sounds like you’ve been touched by the last one. May it always be true.

            • aquaclara

              What a great story. Love that you came full circle, and are enjoying life.

            • Poison Ivy

              Glad to hear it. Acting is wonderful. Simply wonderful. But it’s a hell of a tough life, and I applaud you for making it 20 years. That’s something to be proud of in itself.

        • Lady Squash

          I worked with Leah way back when before she got her King of Queens gig. She was anything but dumb. She was smart and funny and if she has woken up and seen the light I am very happy for her.

    • Jgg2012

      Frankly, it’s great even if they quietly leave. Isaac Hayes left no money to Scientology (neither did Bono or Katselas, to my knowledge). Some of these celebrities have been giving the cult millions a year and could leave them hundreds of millions, which could prop up the Cult up forever, so Remini is a step in the right direction.

    • richelieu jr

      That was lovely, and I do agree that healing should come first for most ex-Scientologists.. However w hen was a muckety-muck or strongarm like Mike or Marty, or someone actively into recruitment and using one’s public image to rope people into the ravenous maw of the cult, I believe you have a responsibility to speak up loud an long to try and undo a little bit of the damage you did, perhaps wake someone up because they got into the cult because they liked your show, or thought you were beautiful, or wanted to make it like you… Religion is an intensely private matter, and if you kept it private, then more power to you and I ope you get every bit of help and luck you can in putting yourself back together…

      If you made this cult your public crusade, you have a duty to make it your public crusade to keep people out.

      If she is merely trying to get her head together, to figure out what she believes,that’s another matter. It sticks in my craw, however the people like Tommy, et al can leave and just carry on as if they hadn’t actively tried to destroy lives and minds…

      • Ms. B. Haven

        I agree 100%, responsibility must be taken. Any purported healing one does has to include personal responsibility. To just walk away and leave others to fend for themselves is less than human. Regaining one’s humanity is one of the great benefits of being an ex-scientologist.

    • Conditioner

      Clear, heartfelt and eloquent, Miss B. Your words work well describing my scene over they years. I’ve been at the sharp end of their stick and it hurts on many levels, mostly personal dignity and worth. I am not prepared to lose family members so I’m staying where I am. But thank you for taking the time to give us those words from the heart.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Why beat yourself up over it, though? Recognize emotional blackmail for what it is. Here’s a book that has some popularity, but there others. I know there are specific books about cults, but this hits some hot points that might help, I’m not sure, but worth a try if it will help protect your own emotional health while waiting for the rest to get their act together.

        “Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You” by Susan Forward, Ph.D. http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972

        • Poison Ivy

          I love Susan Forward. I haven’t read this one – thanks for the rec, THDNE….I need it right now!

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          “Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You” by Susan Forward, Ph.D.”

          {Odd, Forward doesn’t sound like a Jewish last name!}

    • ThetaBara

      Well said, Ms B. Part of my “mission” is to find ways to help people see that it is all false hope, to nudge them towards freedom. As a never-in, I don’t have the kind of insight you possess. So, I hope you will keep posting here. I’m taking notes on this subject – for reals!

  • Are_sics

    Do we know what her website said before? Were there scientology-front charities in the past? I don’t want to read too much into it, but it looks to me like “Leah continues to support those charities that are getting real help to those that need it” might be an indication that she’s been disillusioned by the Narconon stories or something.

    • Mr. Fabulous

      There’s a site where you can view older versions of websites ( http://archive.org/web/web.php ) unfortunately even though the changes on Leah’s site are listed, the pages aren’t loading for me. Maybe someone else will have more luck?

    • pronoia

      Did news of the Garcia lawsuit get back to her? Did she also buy a new bell for the new super power building in Florida?

      BTW: Look what I just found on the Ted Babbit Law firm website: http://www.babbitt-johnson.com/2013-Articles/Scientology-Litigation.shtml

      Right up at the top it points to… “Further resources on Scientology: tonyortega.org”

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Good afternoon and happy belated Independence Day! I wish I could have participated in the chat yesterday–it was epic! I got home late and then spent the next few wee-morning hours reading, laughing, crying, and swallowing bits of snark that were too late to contribute. You truly are a remarkable bunch! I am gobsmacked by the stories, the history, the support and most of all, by the shared humanity. Thank you Tony for providing a platform for all of these wonderful voices.

    Now, on to Leah Remini!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      It Was epic. I woke up this morning with pretzel salt in my bed. That is All I have to say about That.

      • Missionary Kid

        I copied a lot of them and put them in a doc so I can remember different people’s stories.
        It Was epic.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          That would be worth posting over at the Rodeo.

          • Missionary Kid

            I’m not big on copying people’s “confessions” on this forum and pasting them over to another without permission, and what is the Rodeo?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              After Tony left the Voice (and before the Bunker got started) there was a time when we were all refugees. A private blog was set up with Deckard and JohnP acting as admins. We still on occasion post there or discuss things that are not directly relevant to Tony’s post of the day or when a more private forum is warranted. Here is the link: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!categories/scientology-rodeo-watchers-from-the-village-voice You need to set up and account and then I believe there is a way to contact Deck (Spackle) and you will then be allowed to read and post.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks, I’ll think about it. I made some edits for my own edification, so I hope I didn’t misinterpret what someone wrote.

              Some of the stories are truly heart rending, others heroic, some funny, and some a combination of all three.

              I’ve been collecting bits of what people have written that strike me. Here’s some comments and nicknames regarding $cientology:

              “Cash trumps coherence in Scientology.” – Vance Woodward
              Sciloontology
              scifiology
              Dwarfen Oz
              $cientology: Disassociated schizophrenia at a premium price.
              $cesspoolintology
              The Clampire
              Clamland
              Sciendollary
              corporate clamatology
              Scientology:McDonald’s service at Morton’s prices.
              S-Lying-Tology
              The only thing Scientology will ever clear is your pocketbook.
              In scientology, the patients pay the master to create the phenomenon.
              In the real world, patients pay the doctors to make it stop

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              these are great MK… keep the list going!

            • Missionary Kid

              They’re things posted by people on this list.
              I have others for DM, LRH, as well as other aspects of the cult, which I trot out occasionally. The only standard is that I like the list.

            • richelieu jr

              Oh, I am definitely interested; I was going to propose something along those lines in fact…

            • Leslie Stipe

              “A private blog was set up with Deckard and JohnP acting as admins.”

              Anyone heard from JohnP lately or did I miss something?

            • Remy

              I’m sure he is with us in spirit, or in character:)

        • richelieu jr

          I wouldn’t mind a ‘best-of’ myself, as I would have loved to read and contribute, but life took a hand…

          • Missionary Kid

            Sorry, I didn’t capture your story yesterday. It started out more as a project to remember who the different posters were, but it morphed into some fascinating stories.

  • Brainslugged

    I would be so happy if she was out. I boycott all Tom Cruise’s movies, anything with Kirstie Alley (not hard) and My Name Is Earl (unfortunately), but I do admit to being unable to resist the odd episode of King Of Queens.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      We won’t tell.

  • 1subgenius
  • Marc Headley

    Leah was one of the Scilon celebs at the meeting Tom Cruise called at CCHR in LA. He ordered all of the local Scilon celebs to attend and gave them a stern talking to. According to Dave Miscavige, Tom told them all that if they did not start promoting Scientology in the media and Press, then he, Tom Cruise, had the power to effectively end their careers. Dave Miscavige told us this story to demonstrate how awesome Tom Cruise was and that he did not ask Dave to hold this meeting. He just called these guys up and told them to go to CCHR and then he bitch slapped them all into action.

    If Leah has in fact left, then it is most likely because she experienced Scientology for real. If she was at this meeting, then she knows that Tom Cruise is a douche. If he is the “most dedicated Scilon” and Dave Miscavige’s best friend, then one can only assume that Dave is also a giant douche. Therefore, based on this, Scientology will either turn you into a douche or make you a better, more douchey person than you ever hoped to be.

    I know someone who was best friends with Leah when they were young. Leah was made to disconnect from this friend. When I talked with this friend, she was under the impression that Leah did not want to disconnect but had to.

    The bottom line is that If Leah has left, Dave Miscavige is pissed. Hopefully Leah comes out and publicly states that she no longer supports the scilons. This would do great work in getting a bunch of other celebs off that sinking ship. It would also do great in undoing any harm that Leah may or may not have caused by supporting them in the past.

    Everyone has their own way of leaving. Who knows? Leah could have already owned the shit out of Tiny Fists and Tommy Girl and it will take a bit for us to get the details…

    Here’s to hoping!

    • Observer

      Against all odds it appears that Tom Cruise is an even bigger dickweed than I thought. That makes his comeuppance at Katie’s hands even more delicious.

      • FistOfXenu

        Then that’s the only big thing about him.

    • pronoia

      Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Marc could get a copy of his pc files someday — including the ones with Tom Cruise Scientologist Auditor?

    • media_lush

      can you actually BE a better douchey person?, lulz

      • Missionary Kid

        Could it be that TC is passive-aggressive? When he is on set, he’s supposedly professional, respectful of the crew, and well liked, but when he’s operating in clamworld, and has power because he’s a friend of DM and important to the {church’s} public image, he turns into uberdouche? (Hey, a new name for TC).

        • richelieu jr

          Well, if you read about his behaviour when young, it was still publicly extremely homophobic (read Bronson Pinchot’s interview in the AVCLub).. Still, while i have never met the man and hate everything he stands for, I do know tons of people who have worked with him and everyone says he is personable, professional, and takes the time to learn the crews names, etc… Believe me, not everyone does (cough Christian Bale cough)…

          • Missionary Kid

            I have several gay friends who talk about seeing Tommy at parties that were predominantly gay in attendees, but will not call him gay, because they never saw any behavior that would indicate that he was. At the least, he’s overcome his public homophobia.

            The gossip story referred to by a poster here to a site that had Tommy wearing a mask for an encounter is a rare one. The gay accusation is made so often about Hollywood celebs that I doubt them on principle.

            The fact that Going Clear repeated a statement that JT is gay surprised me. Margaret Cho’s statement in Australia about JT being gay, then, to the Huffington Post, she repeated it and said that it didn’t matter because he had a stature that if wouldn’t affect his standing with the public. IMO, JT is closeted for clam reasons.

            • media_lush

              Carrie Fisher outed him way before then…. even the French weekly satirical magazines outed him in the 70’s [have amazing nsfw cover on my bollocks site].

              Mentioned many times before about the “masseur and Tom Cruise” story that The Face magazine printed and was picked up by a national [Express I think] in the late 80’s UK that has seemed to have disappeared from any search engines.

              There are loads of “I saw him at a club and….” stories out there. The ex’s here say he’s straight but over the years there has been so much ‘smoke’ that, well…. is this a gay face?

            • monkeyknickers

              I just found that and was shocked!

              In one of mark bunker’s vids, he’s being driven around clearwater by a retired policeman, Ray something, and Ray something points out a sub shop on the corner and says, John Travolta used to hang out on that corner at 2 or 3 in the morning like a bum.

            • Missionary Kid

              Maybe Cruise is gay and DEEP in the closet or bi. I know that a lot of gays are hostile to the thought of bi’s. I happen to believe the spectrum of sexual attraction is very wide, and that opinion was formed when I read the Kinsey report in the early 60s because of my ignorance about sex. In any event, he chooses to hang with a lot of gays.

            • richelieu jr

              He’s in Hollywood, he has no choice.

            • Missionary Kid

              I was given to believe that they weren’t the type of parties a star of his magnitude would show up at.

              Oh, fuck. Risky Business is on IFC. The person I liked in the movies was DeMornay. I won’t bother watching it.

            • Poison Ivy

              When you watch it again, in hindsight, it’s a frighteningly sexist movie.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. An actress recently claimed that when she went out with TC, he tried to do the dance scene for her. End of date.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I think he’s more likely asexual..

            • Missionary Kid

              Boy, that brings all sorts of questions, such as how did Suri get here?

              Maybe we’ll find out when and if Katy writes a book, and maybe we won’t.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I want to know about the other Cruise kids. There was something that Marc Headley was going to release as soon as Connor turned 18, but then Marc went silent about it. I’m sure he has his reasons. I suspect it was something about his biological parents, but perhaps not.

            • TonyOrtega

              Marc had a piece of information that he shared with me, but then I checked it out and found it to be a baseless rumor. So when the birthday came, he didn’t say anything.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Ah ok. Thanks Tony.

            • Mrs Libnish

              I have speculated with a few of my “watcher” friends. I say Tommy Davis, in the library, with a meat baster. Just my opinion….

            • Missionary Kid

              Well, I believe that we might find out if Katy says something in a tell-all book, which she can, according to rumors, write after 1 year of the divorce, which is coming up.

        • richelieu jr

          When I was in Hollywood it was considered gospel that they were both gay.. I’ve since come to really doubt it about Cruise (but who knows? He sure was strangely homophobic…), however for JT, is there any doubt at all?

          • Missionary Kid

            I agree.

          • Bella Legosi

            He could very well just be bisexual. I really don’t care where he puts his peter. Just keep them “ethic” out of my face!

          • Poison Ivy

            Me too. Andrew Morton’s bio of Cruise is very well done, well-sourced and thorough, and he (like others who know him) swear that he’s straight. But the homophobia thing of his has been well-reported. There is something really creepy about that to me, because drama/the arts/Hollywood has always attracted a lot of gay people – always always – and so if you have something against gays, you are going to be in the minority there. I always wonder about men who are crazily homophobic – WHY are they so threatened by people who are just living their lives as God made them? (Like the whole ridiculous “Gay marriage will ruin my straight marriage” trope. Hello – HUH? What does one have to do with the other?) Why are they so terrified? An experience of sexual abuse as a child? A youthful experimentation that perhaps they liked and are now ashamed of? Repressed feelings?

            Who really cares about someone else’s sexuality in Hollywood, one of the kinkiest places on earth? It always strikes me as a “doth protest too much” situation when I hear of someone’s overzealous homophobia in our business.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        As the Founder once said, “A cleared cannibal is still a cannibal.”

        So yes, Scientology can make a douche a better and more able douche:

        http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/john-travolta_zps364f0885.jpg

        • richelieu jr

          Good evening, I am the Playdoh fist formerly known ad John Travolta!

        • FistOfXenu

          Yes, that’s a clear douche alright.

      • ze moo

        South Park found the ‘Greatest Douche in the Universe’. If they can find them, so can we.

    • sizzle8

      When was this meeting?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I was just wondering about this meeting and wondering how long ago this was? Because it sure has been deafening silence Since that meeting of the douches.

      • richelieu jr

        Well a whole flock (herd? swarm? murder?) of them (asn TC and JT) came out to be paraded in front of Sweeney and the BBC…

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I think it is only one step between thinking the leading proponents of the applied religious philosophy are loathsome scum and thinking the philosophy itself is toxic. Mark and Marty have not made that jump. Maybe Leah Remini will.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Tom Cruise understands KSW. That is why he had to bypass Dave Petit in 2007 and put in Ethics on all of those pantywaist dilettantes at CCI who refused to publicly defend COB, Tom Cruise, and the Church of Scientology.

      It is to Dave Petit’s eternal disgrace as a thetan that Mr. Cruise had to bypass him.

      And don’t think for one second that Tom’s handling of CCI didn’t include slapping around that worthless boneheaded slug Dave Petit and a few others who were guilty of “hats not wearing.”

      Except for Mr. Cruise, every Scientology celebrity is a total and bitter disappointment to COB RTC David Miscavige. COB will not even take their calls anymore as they are all a waste of his time. COB’s real efforts these days are focused on infiltrating and importing Dianetics into the White House.

      Mr. Cruise recently attempted to handle a chronic staff masturbator at CCI to no avail, for this guilty party was just caught in a disgusting act of self abuse by CCI security in the third floor men’s restroom. Parishioners use that restroom everyday and this guilty party laid in a group engram at CCI because nobody wants to go in there anymore. We literally need to demo the restroom and rebuild it. Please donate for this project today.

      • Captain Howdy

        If it wasn’t for the celebrities, David Miscavige would have less name recognition than Marshall Applewhite or whoever is running the Raelians.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Your criminal origination is not true and in fact is downright insulting to Mr. Miscavige.

          COB is responsible for handling this entire prison planet and putting in Ethics on all of the crims, SP’s, cocksuckers, gangbangers, lunatics, perverts, 1.1′s, degraded beings, retards, retreads, nancy boys, medicos, politicos, psychos, sickos, freeloaders, tech degraders, squirrels, commies, pinkos, misfits, junkies, harpies, marcabs, agitators, conspirators, false reporters, bloviatiors, card sharps, chiselers, rockslammers, deviants, homos, statcrashers, serfacers, mouth breathers, instigators, rose perfumers, terrorists, therapists, analysts, celebutards, scumbags, whores, dikes, pimps, bikers, actors, acting coaches, studio heads, newspaper reporters, running dog yellow journalists, infiltrators, self-promoters, wannabe auditors, jokers & degraders, deceivers, pts type 3′ers, spies, psych cases, drug cases, black five cases, hoodlums, cowboys, dope smokers, evil clowns, dogs, wogs, hogs, dilettantes, theety wheety publics, and the Psychs.

          Moreover, COB has to handle the massive Out Int and CI of the entire bloody Church of Scientology because every single Scientologist, except for COB and we in RTC, are wholetrack dramatizing psychotics. And that is why COB is shoving GAT 2 down their throats faster than the Psychs can drug college students. Someone needs to put in their Ethics, especially those ungrateful dead-in-the-head OT’s! What a sack of rocks those losers are!

          • Missionary Kid

            Not as much of being a loser as COB. He’s a jerk.

          • Captain Howdy

            COB in 20 years

            • Bella Legosi

              That is an insult to magical, I don’t give a fuck, bums EVERYWHERE captain!

              But goddamn that gave me a giggle!

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Actually, it is COB from birth to PT.

            • media_lush

              you know this is Lily Allen’s dad

            • monkeyknickers

              Hopefully that’s taken at the exercise yard at San Quentin, then. :)

          • Ms. B. Haven

            OMG!!! You are so right sir. Your tirade is the best recruiting speech I have ever encountered. I want to confess my o/dubs (countless but I’ll try) and get that billion year contract signed so that I too can help salvage this sector of the guh-lax-ee. I am a line-charging conspiracy theorist cowgirl living a degraded life in a far corner of the frozen sector of N. America but I would be more than willing to relocate (at my own expense of course) to one of those cool underground storage vaults. Just between you and me… See, I have this theory, no one else in this slimy den of SPs has figured out what Shelly is REALLY up to. I am certain that COB has her tucked away in one of those vault properties raising a little Ron, who has returned from Target Two (I hope I am not breaching confidentiality here) to be the guest of honor at the opening of the fabulous Super Power Building! I could give Shelly a much needed break from raising that uber-precocious little red headed rascal. He can abuse me all he wants. May the gods help those scum you have listed above when the Super Power Building opens and endless waves of overwhelming theta are released. Once lill’ Ron returns to take over the reins of power and COB gets a well deserved fishing vacation, I will promptly enroll in the RPF’s RPF’s RPF so my sorry spiritual ass can be properly savaged (or is that salvaged). Please let me help. There can be no greater purpose than being with you folks in the RTC getting ethics in. Please let me help. Please.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              MsBH: There are things so secret going on in CST that to speak of them publicly would cause a global pandemic of pneumonia. Therefore, we cannot discuss what Shelly is doing in Montana.

            • Ms. B. Haven

              I don’t mean to pry, but are you referring to the ranch, one quarter of the entire State that is part of the Hubbard estate? You know, where little Ronnie was busting broncs at age 3? I have driven across Montana many many times and I always worry that I am trespassing.

            • monkeyknickers

              HAHAHAHA!

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              The Church has increased its holdings in Montana.

              We own 1/2 of Montana and Dick Cheney owns the other half.

              Both parties permit people to use the public roads. However, we do not recommend that anyone drive on Dick Cheney’s half of Montana when he is hunting and drinking beer.

            • Ms. B. Haven

              This is incredible news! I feel a lot better knowing that Ted Turner and “Hanoi Jane” have been bought out and Big Sky country is safe for all Americans. I can only imagine the joy that the locals feel knowing all of the Orgs in the State will soon be Ideal. You know with the long and storied history the Hubbard family has in the State, and hometown boy makes good and all. Being extra fond of the western part of the State, let me be the first to send a check for the cornerstone of Two Dot Ideal Org.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              MsBH: You are soooooooooo Theta. We wish all OT’s were exactly like you!

              ML,
              RTC

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              can’t stop chuckling here…

            • Bella Legosi

              Be careful in DickLand. There be Council on Foreign Relation members a foot RTC!

              Or have you “ethical” people been able to confront and shatter their suppression?

            • Poison Ivy

              Spit take!

            • Poison Ivy

              Don’t forget the blood brotherhood with the indians!

          • 0tessa

            You have excelled yourself today!

        • monkeyknickers

          Aliens run the Raelians. No? Oooooo maybe they’re secret adversaries of the Loyal Officers!

    • Gus_Cox

      Cruise called a meeting? Jeezus, there’s a story I hadn’t heard! It sounds like Cruise was channelling his best buddy Miscavige. I hope Leah has left, and it would be nice if she came out swinging and did a Beghe, but to each her own…

    • sister wendy

      I hate this! When I was in, I asked specifically if all artists/celebs needed to promote and was told clearly absolutely not. The ED even brought up Cruise as an example saying that until artists were at a private financial level like he was, where they could defend themselves easily if something came up in the media, not even to worry about it. If you wanted to personally, sure, that was fine, they weren’t going to stop you. But she said their biggest concerns with artists was to keep us creating. That promotion of the church was not the job of the artist. This was in a different country, so maybe she missed Cruise’s memo. I believe she really meant what she was saying. And this is clearly what is NOT going on…! Hate this! Arghh!!!!

      • richelieu jr

        Don’t blame TC, read Hubbard on the subject. They weren’t targeting celebs and building ‘Celebrity Centres’ because they wanted Cruise to feel good an make Top Gun 2…

        How many celebs got browbeat (even on $ciloons!) into signing that ‘defense of Scientology’ letter against the German government in the 90’s? Did anyone ask you to sign it?

        • sister wendy

          you know….? I’m wondering if I did. I think not- but I’m sure I was shown or asked… Gosh….maybe I signed. I hope NOT. I remember it going around.

        • Poison Ivy

          Yes, Hubbard makes it very clear exactly why he wanted his followers to pursue their celebrity “quarry” (his exact words.)

          It wasn’t about helping them make great art.

      • Observer

        “But she said their biggest concerns with artists was to keep us creating.” Kind of hard to do while the “church” is forcing your mind into LRH’s mold. We’ve experienced his poetry, prose, photography and “music.” Did he ever paint or sketch? Because if he did I bet it would be on the same so-“brilliant”-that-everyone-else-thinks-it’s-crap level as the rest of his output.

        • Bella Legosi

          His drivel would turn any Vogon insane!

          • Remy

            LRH as a Vogon!!! Love it!

            • monkeyknickers

              I would never let him borrow my towel.

              :)

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Excuse me, but could you point me to the restaurant? You know, the one at the end of the universe?

            • monkeyknickers

              I so would by my infinite probability drive is on the fritz.

              :)

              Wait – is that pejorative? “Fritz”? I never thought about that before.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              We are such huge dorks!

            • Pete Cockerell

              Some of the descriptions of Hubbard just before he dropped his meat body (hugely distended gut, long patchy hair, rotting teeth) is pretty much how I’ve always pictured Vogons, actually.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            We are such dorks!

        • Missionary Kid

          {What, you mean the Emperor has not clothes?}

        • sister wendy

          he did (apparently) and it was about like the rest in terms of quality, imho;) And I totally get your kind point behind my remark. If you look at what is really going on the way you describe, what is the point of ANYTHING they are saying, right? At the time, it was just really helpful not to feel it was a necessary part, being pushed to promote. And I think she was sincere and not aware of the “mind mold” of what is really going on. It just got me that she is saying this one point very sincerely, and Cruise and Co get to coerce artists to do “more in the name of”….

    • richelieu jr

      Absolutely Marc, again you say what I was trying to say in a more informed and humanistic manner.

      What Marc said, everybody!

    • Poison Ivy

      Sadly, it seems her marriage is done for if she does that…

  • Sunny Sands

    I put Leah’s name in a search and found she spoke out in favor of a group called the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) in 2011 while she was a member of “The Talk” TV show. Edgenewyork has a video of her. I would imagine that would have called for a church intervention or “handling” of her public activity in something the church is against. It would be rather difficult to speak out for both gay and scientology at the same time.

    • pronoia

      Good for her. I like her spunk — and of course this would’ve been shortly after the Paul Haggis defection and the subsequent New Yorker article (feb 2011). And the fact that she managed to get out of the sea org in the first place is testament to the fact that she did have an independent streak. I am always especially impressed by people who were raised in the cult who manage to get out. Even for the celebrities who have the money, the personal cost is tremendous.

      I think the secret lies in having the guts to marry a wog. Lisa Marie comes to mind.

  • Xenu

    I looked into the Wikipedia article, and it seems very unlikely that she requested the changes. Four days ago, someone made an account called SPPTS, which they used to edit the scientology references out of her article. The changes were done in ways that violates wikipedia guidelines, so this wouldn’t have been an official act by anyone with wikipedia, and since they also edited her family info to make her dad a hit man for the Gambino crime family, I doubt that they’re carrying out her wishes, either.

    • pronoia

      OSA? Wow. The cult must be really pissed at her to resort to something so fucking obvious. Maybe she threatened them — mess with my family or I’ll go all Jason Beghe or Paul Haggis on you! Maybe someone will report the account to the wiki editors.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I’m sorry, but how did you make the leap to OSA? Am I missing something here?

        • pronoia

          An account called SPPTS. Suppressive person potential trouble source. Can’t believe I can decode this shit, but I can.

          • sister wendy

            that’s really impressive….

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I’m still not buyin’ what yer sellin’. We all got the decode, it’s just a stretch to be certain OSA is behind it. I’m not saying it ISN’T them, but you know….

            • pronoia

              Not selling anything. As I said earlier, I thought it could be a troll or OSA. But the Gambino insertion sorta smells OSAish. But really I don’t know more than anyone else.

          • 1subgenius

            I would take that as an indication that it is not OSA.

      • Xenu

        I misspoke; it’s not so clear as that. Although there have long been rumors on the Internet that her dad, George Remini, was the same George Remini (d. 2007) who was a Gambino boss, that wasn’t what was said in the wikipedia edit. The edit claims that her dad, George, was cousin of the George who worked for the Gambinos. This is not entirely implausible, and while it’d have to have some verifiable source to be allowed in a wikipedia article about a living person, I can’t jump to the conclusion that the edit was malicious. I’m not sure what to think of it now.

        • pronoia

          Yeah. But an account called SPPTS? Either a troll or OSA. And I would say trying to make a connection to the Gambino family — regardless of whether or not it is true — is vary OSAish.

        • richelieu jr

          Everyone in Sicily is a cousin to practically everyone else, and if they have the same last name? Fuggeddaboutit!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Wow!
      Great job!

  • montananut

    Just an observation. With people leaving the “church” left and right everyday, and with all the bad publicity that comes out on a daily basis as well, it should be a perfect storm that will see the slow death of this vicious cult. I can’t imaging they are getting new members in any kind of sustainable volume, if any at all, so all we have to do is just wait for everyone else who’s still “in” to come to their senses and this insidious group will go the way of the dinosaurs. Not saying that is the ideal ending, I would love to see them brought down by some legal scandal, but as long as they stay in a bad light in the media, there will be no more growth, only shrinkage.

    • Remy

      Not the shrinkage!

      • richelieu jr

        Whatssa matter? Afraid of alittle cold water, COB?

  • media_lush

    speaking of scion celebs…… surely the headline of the day:

    “Is Scientology to Blame for Beck’s Mediocre New Songs?”

    more: Is Scientology to Blame for Beck’s Mediocre New Songs?

  • fascinated lurker

    As I recall, John Sweeney described Leah Rimini as the subtlest and most effective defender of Scientology among the many spokespersons the church trotted out to confront him. That’s a good call about her charitable affiliations: those choices do seem to make a point, as both the Children’s Hospital and the Zoo in Los Angeles are right in the thick of church territory. The Children’s Hospital is just a couple of blocks down Sunset Blvd. from “Big Blue.”

    • richelieu jr

      I think he referred to her as ‘salty’, didn’t he?

      • fascinated lurker

        I don’t recall that. I’m remembering the “subtlest defender” idea from Sweeney’s book. I came away with the impression that he was charmed and impressed by Ms. Remini–he’s pretty snide about most every scientologist he describes, she was a conspicuous exception. But I don’t have the book or the Panorama show at hand, so my memory may be faulty.

    • Spackle Motion

      And the Zoo isn’t very far from the Scientology hotbed of Glendale. There were several Dianetics and mission offices in Glendale, including an org on Brand Blvd. That’s where I saw Eddie Deezen trying to rope in suckers with a free personality test. He was recognized and made fun of by many pedestrians.

  • mook

    who will be the next celeb to leave? My bets are on either Travolta (despite the canned PR puff piece w/ recycled quotes from Freedumb magazine) or Kirstie…

    • Missionary Kid

      I believe neither. JT has been going along with it too long, and Krusty owns a part of the vitamin scam that provides a lot of income.

    • pronoia

      Beck? And maybe he could bring along the Ribisi siblings.

    • Brainslugged

      No way JT. The only hope for him was when Jett died. At that point he could either realize what a bunch of destructive BS the cult is, or to wedge his head even further into the sand. Unfortunately he seemed to choose the latter.

      • mook

        the only and quickest way that JT could leave the cult is to divorce Lady Macbeth aka Kelly P, but that too will probably cause its own series of headaches. The fact that Kelly sent their daughter in her place to several events JT attended in Europe should set off alarm bells (also, weren’t they married by a CoS minister in the UK? hmmm…)

        Kirstie also has that sitcom on TV Land airing later this year which will bring her more $$$ than her vitamin company (Organic Liasons) will. She’ll probably close up shop soon.

        also forgot about Juliette Lewis, who’s pals with the Neil Gaimans. she’s appearing in Oscar bait ‘August Osage County’ later this year which will provide a needed boost to her career.

        first Lisa Marie now Leah.. it’s a definite domino effect.

    • media_lush

      Elizabeth Moss [Mad Men]…. there will be some interesting stuff about her coming up in the next few weeks.

      • Spackle Motion

        I read that on the Scientology Celebrity blog, which has an inconsistent and infrequent posting rate and the author doesn’t necessarily follow through on teasers like that.

        Considering that I am a Mad Men junkie, I am eagerly hoping that this is revealed because I really want her off that show.

        • media_lush

          I specifically asked my friend in a major PR company about that and was told that they’ve been told to keep her on their radar…. follow closely in other words and possibly cultivate contacts…. could be interesting… could be nothing

    • Remy

      I think Travolta is too dumb to leave. He’s done too much to promote the church, even after so much adversity that should have snapped him out of it.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Tony gets a shout out from Roger Friedman about Will Smith and the New Village Leadership Academy…and he’s asking for more information if anyone has it.

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/07/05/will-smith-private-quasi-scientology-school-is-shut-down

    • Robert Eckert

      Tony gets called “intrepid”, one of those great underused adjectives.

    • media_lush

      the intriguing thing that struck me about that article is that it names the stuff that Will Smith put up for “charity” raffle/auction…. the ominously appropriate Men In Black suit he wore [you know, saving the world from Xenu – bad aliens, surely, ed]…. from now on I shall see it as ‘Men In the Black Scientology Suit’ and another major prize of ‘boxing lessons from Ray Leonard…. I assume it’s “Sugar”…. anyway, I know how we all like to research tenuous associations of celebs and the cult and was wondering if Sugar Ray might be a [secret] scion? …. I’m guessing he might have been the fight advisor on Ali or something…

      …anyway, if you want to see Will Smith’s boyfriend he’s on my bollocks site

  • Synthia Fagen

    I was always hoping that Leah would leave. She didn’t seem to fit. At least her public persona has been one of someone who doesn’t take crap so I’ve often thought how great it would be if she would speak out — she has little to no filter when she decides to say what she thinks which I admire.

    I’ve seen every episode of King of Queens probably 10 times each. I still watch it today. It always amazed me that this show was not given the censorship finger by the church. She said several psych related things on the show that would make any Scientologist livid and yet we never heard anything about either the cult contacting the producers (ala South Park) or her having a problem with it.

    I like Leah. I hope she’s out. She seems like someone I would love to hang out with in real life.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Ditto!

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      “She seems like someone I would love to hang out with in real life.”
      Funny, I couldn’t think of a person LESS likely I would like to hang out with.

      • Captain Howdy

        Kevin James

      • Synthia Fagen

        People are different, what can I say? :)

        In addition, I think she’s a brilliant comedic actress that has not been used to her potential, in Hollywood, at all.

    • Bella Legosi

      I remember seeing some sort of E! doco that followed her planning her wedding. I, too, was struck with the notion that this woman who has the mouth of a sailor didn’t take shit. Then I found out she was into $cientology and tried to imagine what that bull-bait encounter must have been like.

  • monkeyknickers

    I’m sorry if this has been addressed already, but . . . . didn’t Leah Remini write up a knowledge report on Miscavige and his girlfriend? Then they slammed her into ethics?

    • pronoia

      wait wut? If she had the guts to do that, then Miscavige better not mess with her.

      • monkeyknickers

        I agree . . . maybe it’s a myth?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I didn’t think she was the one who did that? Got dox?

      • monkeyknickers

        Looking now . . . . I can’t remember where I read it. . . . .

      • monkeyknickers

        Dammit I know I read it somewhere. And noted that further mentions became “a “celeb” saw . . . ” but I can’t find it . . . . . I’ll keep looking. And we all need to keep in mind that I’m an idiot. Still, tho. Now it’s a personal Google vendetta. For serious !

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Ok, not trying to be rude, but Leah’s husband kinda looks like Liza Minelli’s last gay husband.

    • Captain Howdy

      It was surprisingly nice that he returned Tony’s call.

      • Spackle Motion

        I suspect it was done by the lesser celebrity in the family to quash rumors and keep Disconnection from being implemented. If Ms. Remini made that statement herself it would have been picked up by various media websites and find a wider audience, hence creating a possible flap for the Cult. Her husband’s remarks to Tony were designed to keep this on the down-low.

        • richelieu jr

          Exactly, SM.

  • Jgg2012

    I’m wondering if she might try to pull the “you can be a scientologist and also be a Christian” nonsense that the Church espouses.

  • Proud to be an SP

    I was looking at her Wikipedia page which tracks edits – it was last edited by SPPTS on July 1, 2013. It is not clear who SPPTS is, since that user doesn’t seem to have any history with Wikipedia. See – http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leah_Remini&diff=prev&oldid=562355107

    Under “Personal Life” on July 1 SPPTS changed it substantially, from this:

    On July 19, 2003, Remini married actor and fellow scientologist Angelo Pagán who also appeared on ”The King of Queens” as Rico and other various characters. They have a daughter, Sofia Bella, born on June 16, 2004. Remini is a member of The Church of Scientology. In May 2001, she told The Howard Stern Show, “I’ve been a Scientologist for half my life.” In December 2005, she helped promote the gala opening of Church of Scientology’s [[Psychiatry: An Industry of Death|”Psychiatry: An Industry of Death” Museum]]…. Responding to criticism of Scientology during an interview on [[CNN]], Remini said:”If somebody is going to get turned off about something because of what they read or heard, then that person’s not smart enough to even enter a church. If you’re really against something, then know what you’re against”

    To this:

    On July 19, 2003, Remini,a Catholic married Angelo Pagán who also appeared on ”The King of Queens” as Rico and other various characters. They have a daughter, Sofia Bella, born on June 16, 2004.

    • Synthia Fagen

      Most excellent smithers.

    • pronoia

      Can you tell if SPPTS added this — cousin of captain George Remini, Gambino Crime Family]] —>,?

      • Xenu

        SPPTS did add that. SPPTS is not an experienced wikipedia editor, and the account seems to have been created just to make that one edit — it’s the only thing that account has done on wikipedia. Wikipedia doesn’t share IP addresses under normal circumstances, so it’s anybody’s guess who is responsible.

        • pronoia

          If SPPTS added the Gambino crime family I would guess OSA — the OSA meme always seems to be what are your crimes”? Kind of a squirrel busters-lite kind of tech.

    • Illinoisian

      ” It is not clear who SPPTS is, since that user doesn’t seem to have any history with Wikipedia.”
      Is it possible that SPPTS *is* Leah Remini?

      • pronoia

        Now that is a very interesting thought. And could make sense. Perhaps the break up with the church was over that very issue?

      • Proud to be an SP

        suppressive person potential trouble source seems too obvious?

        • Illinoisian

          Yeah, I think that’s the obvious meaning, but I’m suggesting that she might be changing her own Wiki entry and using those terms, SP and PTS, to create an account — possibly with an “I don’t give a damn” attitude. Perhaps taking for herself the label that the ‘church’ is ready to give her (or already has?).

    • Bella Legosi

      If you have to wonder why thousands of people picket and protest your religion and do not or CAN NOT research the reason why………..then you are not smart enough to tell people whether or not they should enter a “church”!

      “Church” hmmmmmpffffft! More like greed, mind-control, central!

    • Spackle Motion

      It would be great to add a section to her Wikipedia page that goes into detail about her previous involvement and see what happens. She cannot hide her past, unfortunately, and she supported a criminal organization which she should account for.

  • Sherbet

    Hey, I’ve done so well putting my foot in it today vis a vis religion, let me throw in something else here. Katie Holmes allegedly joined a Catholic church a year ago, and then there were all those rumors about Suri attending Catholic school (she isn’t). Do we know (as if it’s our business to know!) if Katie merely gave a great big middle finger to TC by joining a parish, or does she actually attend Mass? How Catholic is this Catholic? Disclaimer: No matter how lapsed she is, or whether she’s secretly attending Kaballah with Madonna, or whether she worships toads and rocks or nothing at all, Katie is still way up the top of my hit parade for dumping the insufferable TC.

    • pronoia

      Katie went to Catholic school. But she has not been seen in a church in NYC (if so, the paparazzi would be all over it). But she does visit family in Ohio and perhaps attends mass there on occasion where she would still be considered a member of a parish?

      Anyway — I know lots of devoted Catholics who only attend masses on Christmas, various christenings and confirmations, and perhaps on Easter. I don’t think many American Catholics live anymore in the realm of good and bad Catholics.

      But I think it was a brilliant bit of PR-fu on the part of someone’s PR team to set in motion the idea that she was joining a parish with Suri in NYC and putting her in catholic school.

      • stillgrace

        I have some cognitive dissonance with this. I was taught (indoctrinated?) that it was a mortal sin to miss Mass on ANY Sunday, unless you were deathly ill. You couldn’t receive communion until you confessed this mortal sin in Confession. If you accidently died before you could make it to the weekly Confessional, you were screwed … you would burn forever in the fires of hell and be denied the Kingdom of heaven, no exceptions, no second chances. I can laugh now, but … just saying.

        • pronoia

          I know. How times have changed. I lived for a time in a town that was like 90% catholic (only 2 churches — the Italian catholic church and the french/irish church) and the public elementary school closed down at noon every Wednesday so the kids could go to Catechism (there was no catholic school — the public school was run like a catholic school). So like the 5-10 of us who were not catholic got to sit in study hall all afternoon. I got a lot of reading done. Of course, that could never happen now!

          • Sandy

            pronoia – I grew up in a almost totally Protestant town. We, too, got let out of public school once a week to attend Bible school. If your church was too far to walk, the school even paid for the buses to take you there! (my Dad owned the bus company).

            I never even met a Catholic or knew anything about them until 9th grade when the few kids that had gone to their school came to join our school. What a sheltered life back then!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              When I read some the comments by people like you describing how strict their religious upbringings were, I praise the Lawd that my dad was a working class anti-theist socialist and my mom was an agnostic ex-Methodist.

              My sister and I were so freaking lucky, which is the number one reason I am so pissed and disgusted with her for becoming a scientologist.

        • Mark

          Not to mention eating sausages on Fridays… oops, no, you don’t go to hell for doing that nowadays, do you?

          • sister wendy

            no- eat away

          • Bella Legosi

            I hated Friday’s growing up! That meant my crazy Italian grandmother would make fish!

            >P

            I refused to eat that stuff as a kid (and anything colored green until I was 8). So, Friday nights were Bella’s “mac n cheese” with corn nights! Then on Sunday we would have delicious spaghetti and meatballs!

            **Also I was under the mistaken impression that along with washing all of our sins away, Jesus’ death also allowed the people of the world to enjoy bacon and all other pork products. I didn’t find out til much later, Jesus really had nothing to do with the lifting of the ban on pork products!***

          • EnthralledObserver

            My MIL (and hubby) pressure me every year that I must not eat meat on Good Friday. As (a non-believing) Anglican (Church of England) I’d never heard of it before, nor had my mother, but they insisted even though they were Anglicans too. But it soon became apparent that it was merely an excuse for what I term now as “Seafood Day”. I mean, c’mon… how important is Good Friday to you that you must adhere to fish and shellfish only but get absolutely smashed on whatever alcoholic beverage suits? Consequently the rebel in me eats meat (not a fan of seafood or excessive alcohol really else I’d just join in) whenever I please… and they’d better not judge me!

            • Robert Eckert

              Reminds me of a kibbutz I visited in Israel, where they eat pork, but only on the Sabbath.

        • sister wendy

          hahaha! Even for a fallen away- it wouldn’t be a mortal sin. It would be venial or capitol at best.

          • stillgrace

            But … But … I swear to you, this is what I was taught. No joke.

            • sister wendy

              I know- that is so wrong, I’m sorry. I know a lot of Catholics were taught that, and some still think that…but that’s not even what it actually says in church doctrine. I think local parishes and schools just made up a bunch of stuff to bully people and make kids behave- to scare people. Or to have power…I mean, this is a church with a lot of rules. But I think even on the conservative groups, not going to church on Sunday is not a mortal sin.

            • Missionary Kid

              People who were raised Catholic of a certain age and older have a lot of crap that was taught them by the brothers and sisters and priests that was flat out untrue. The ruler wielding nuns and paddle carrying priests in Catholic school had some real sadists among them.

              I was raised a Protestant, but not going to church on Sunday was practically unthinkable. I was also taught or absorbed a lot of crap from my upbringing that is flat out false.

            • richelieu jr

              The Jesuits said, ‘Give us a boy for his first three years, and he will be ours for life.’

            • Bella Legosi

              ***Shudders uncomfortably***

            • Missionary Kid

              I always heard that the age was 12, but Google came up with this

              http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070825015743AAtbNey

            • richelieu jr

              Absolutely, that is the quote; I stand corrected; 7 years.

            • Captain Howdy

              I always thought it was Mussolini, but you are correct sir.

            • Bella Legosi

              It was. But the Concordat was filled with provisions concerning the german clergy……..it is interesting to say the least……can we say “sold out”?

            • stillgrace

              NOW you tell me. All these memories are serving to remind me what damaged goods I be.

            • sister wendy

              yeah, there is probably no hope;) Let us eat cake!

          • richelieu jr

            Venial sin. I can confirm this.

        • richelieu jr

          Fun Fact: The fish thing comes from the middle ages when it was believed that fish were the only creatures created without Original Sin- They were thought to be spontaneously created in water, therefore sinless and OK to eat.

          I believe the whole interdiction on eating meat on Fridays went away with Vatican II, didn’t it?

          • pronoia

            And here I thought it was all about the sermon on the mount and fishes and loaves. When was vatican II. I remember when we had to eat reheated frozen fish sticks for school lunch on Fridays. With awful tartar sauce.

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you for expanding on this. I remember my grandmother telling me just about the same thing. Although I don’t think she knew this practice came out of the middle ages. She also told me the reason she fed the crows, was due to the miricle they performed for a saint/hermit; to get closer to God this guy found a cave on the side of a cliff and climbed down. He didn’t bring food. Ravens/crows started showing up dropping off bits of bread they had collected. So, that is why she fed the crows, to honor a saint who relied on God for sustenance!

            • richelieu jr

              Didn’t know that story Bella, That’s great!

            • Bella Legosi

              Welcome. I have a feeling my Italian family were more pagan in their ways, rather then die hard Catholics. A few of the old timer women used to practice Strega, but in the most secret, hush hush, way. They got the hell out of dodge when Mussolini came to power.

            • Robert Eckert

              That was the prophet Elijah (1st Kings 17:4)

          • Captain Howdy

            “Lolling eyes in a lopsided grin,
            In a sharks’s smile there is no sin”

            • q-bird

              aye Capt.

          • Robert Eckert

            They did know about fish eggs, and that male fish squirt milt on them, but since that did not involve penetration, they considered fish to be conceived without “lust”, and therefore eating fish would not arouse the lust the way that eating meat does.

            • richelieu jr

              Well some may have, however:

              or, more directly to the point (can’t copy/paste):
              http://books.google.fr/books?id=zsQAc_QlB5cC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=spontaneous+generation+fish+middle+ages&source=bl&ots=Zazf_y7Qpd&sig=MQKDDfCUNAWnyG1yzIk9d8jvve8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_ILXUbi6G5OzhAf5loC4Dg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=spontaneous%20generation%20fish%20middle%20ages&f=false

              Plus:
              “From the facts above enumerated it is quite proved that
              certain fishes come spontaneously into existence, not being
              derived from eggs or from copulation. Such fish as are
              neither oviparous nor viviparous arise all from one of two
              sources, from mud, or from sand and from decayed matter
              that rises thence as a scum; for instance, the so-called
              froth of the small fry comes out of sandy ground. This fry
              is incapable of growth and of propagating its kind; after
              living for a while it dies away and another creature takes
              its place, and so, with short intervals excepted, it may be
              said to last the whole year through.” 569a21-569b3 {listed in Lennox 233}”

            • Robert Eckert

              Awesome quotes in that book, thanks! (You know I’m a sucker for that kind of stuff.)

            • richelieu jr

              Yeah, it’s cool, innit? May have to buy it…

            • Bella Legosi

              Reading this exchange is making me laugh……seriously, I just realized, sometime way way back when, there were priests arguing over the mating habits of fish; and that because they didn’t mate with lust, then the lust isn’t in the fish! That’s awesome!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              would have loved to have eavesdropped on that meeting!

          • MO Mom

            Giving up meat on Fridays in now only required during Lent. It is meant to be a sacrifice or an abstinence, as penance.

            I had a boyfriend in college that joked that is was more of a sacrifice to eat the school’s salisbury steak than it was to have a salad or a peanut butter sandwich.

          • stillgrace

            I ate many waffles on Friday nights!

    • Mark

      I’ve lost any remaining respect for Cruise as an actor ever since his fat head kept on getting in the way of the brilliant CGI Martian war-machines in Spielberg’s ‘War of the Worlds’ (I have a theory that might have been Spielberg’s subtle revenge for TC cluttering up the sets with yellow ‘something can be done touch assist’ tents; S couldn’t really say “bugger off, Tom” because TC was putting up most of the film’s budget.)

      And I hate TC for having a fat nose.

      • richelieu jr

        You’ve totally missed his teeth being the wrong-way ’round in his face…

  • stateofcircle

    Since we’re all Lamprey’d out…

    • richelieu jr

      Speak for yourself;.. For my part I think I’l ahve another slice of that delicious piii—aaaarrrrrrrghhhhhhh……..thhhhhhh….

    • BuryTheNuts2

      GAH!
      I am on a little road trip to Georgia..
      And now, not getting in the water

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Stop by one of the Cafe Risque locations for me, OK? You gotta go north to go south!

    • hogarthian

      What in the name of fuck is THAT?!

      • stateofcircle

        Goblin Shark

        • Captain Howdy

          Bingo!

          • Bella Legosi

            Nightmare fish is a better description!

    • Bella Legosi

      Put a friggin lazer on it’s head and we are good to go man!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd
        • Bella Legosi

          >D
          I love this movie!

      • Remy

        It’s LASER, and that’s an acronym that is no longer capitalized (finished being a pissy scientist 3, 2, 1)

        • Bella Legosi

          I KNEW I spelled that wrong!!!

          See spell check doesn’t always make you sound smart!
          **edited

  • richelieu jr

    I loved how in Sweeney’s book he sad how beautiful Remini was but that he had no idea who she was… I also loved how he said Kirstie Allley was beautiful and really aggressive, but that he had the impression that under different circumstances they could have been good mates throwing back pints together (paraphrasing mine, and perhaps not 100% accurate!)

  • Bella Legosi

    This may be a tad off topic, but the new Pope released his encyclical a few days ago. It was written for Benedict, for him to release in a series, but he stepped down. In it tho, he has called for Catholics to return to the “faith”, saying something to the effect that godly good works with out god, just won’t do. After talking to my crazy catholic old man friend, he has noticed that the church is starting to get the few who do attend to bring those who haven’t been to Mass in years or young people (if they were baptized even better).

    Apparently, not too many Catholics out there really believe that the “host” is “there” during mass, much less in the crackers or the wine. When I heard that I was glad. God cannibalism never seemed to sit with me very well!

    But, point is, this new pope, is calling for a resurgence in the faith. Something not unheard of among churches who are quickly losing relevance in today’s world!

    • Missionary Kid

      The new pope always calls for a resurgence in the faith. The churches that are losing relevance and parishioners are in the more secular societies. The third world is where they’re looking for growth.

      • hogarthian

        And there’s my point (or at least one of ‘em). Religions do bully their followers, and they recruit new ones from the suffering and the disposessed, and they make you feel guilty when you don’t pull your weight (in whichever way they’re asking), and they ask you for stuff (whatever it is they’re asking for). I sincerely believe that organised religions are cults.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m an atheist, too, but I believe that organized religions vary all over the place, but all believe they are doing good by their recruitment.

        • Bella Legosi

          YES! I agree with you whole heartedly!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I’ve done A LOT of work in Mormon meeting houses all around Florida. They were always very nice and friendly, Stepford wives kinda friendly. I’ve heard the “sales pitch” many times as I was in the corner quietly working on what I was there for. Find their weaknesses, their ruins, their difficulties in life and promise to help with all of that. I’m right there with ya sister.

        • Remy

          “Religions do bully their followers” This is a massive generalization, untrue

          “They recruit new ones from the suffering and the disposessed” You can’t prove causation, since the suffering and dispossesed are more likely to seek out religion

          “They make you feel guilty when you don’t pull your weight” This is actually complete bullshit. Sure, the bible thumpers might want you to bring a cherry pie to the bake sale, but seriously, your statement is relevant to SCN or LDS, not mainstream religion

          • hogarthian

            ok.

      • ze moo

        Catholics are the large population church that no adherent actually obeys. American catholics stay away from church in huge numbers and disobey church doctrine on birth control and abortion in majority percentages. I don’t think there is one diocese in the US that doesn’t shut down a church and catholic school for lack of bodies every year.

        I suspect their real estate fetish actually outweighs CO$. But then again they do actually have soup kitchens and they do feed the hungry and cloth the naked. They have lots of things wrong with them, but the catholic church evolves. Lroooners (knuckle walkers that they are) can’t evolve. They are all in their own way piltdown man.

        • Missionary Kid

          Just for a point of information, are you a former Catholic?
          Possibly the difference is between the Catholics and Protestants is that if a Protestant disagrees with the dogma, they just join another church that is more closely aligned with what they believe. Just about all Protestants, though have written dogma and push conformity. At least even the JWs and Mormons take care of their own in their old age.

          Co$ tries to offload any financial responsibility for the faithful. I call them buried Piltdown man.

          • ze moo

            Nope never been catholic, I married into a catholic non-church going family and we maintian the peace by liking John Paul 2 and dislikieng earlier popes (in the midwest this is called a ‘mixed marriage’). Though ‘find the popes in the pizza’ is one my favorite games. Guido Sarducci was a great carnicature of a priest.

            Lutherans, with their many synods, have political room for almost anybody. Other protestants have similar arrangements amoung their flocks. To my uncertain knowledge, everyone of them tries to take care of their old priests and nuns.

            I don’t believe in CO$ thetan reincarination because any reincarnated clam would put on the Godzilla boots and stomp the dwarfenfürher for how they were treated in the past life.

            • Missionary Kid

              There’s no real charity in Co$, except towards COB.

              Sarducci is great.

              If I go to a church, it’s a Unitarian-Universalist one. There’s a fair amount of atheists like me and agnostics there.

              I’ll disagree about the Lutherans. They’re still full of dogma, but one can move around.

            • Sandy

              Of course Lutherans can move around. But, in fly-over land, they are all so prejudiced .
              If you drift from one synod to the next – heritic!
              At least it used to be that way.
              My synod (ALC) used to make fun of the the LCA’s HYMNALS!!!!!
              Crazy stuff…

            • Missionary Kid

              Coming out of the fundamentalist denomination and the family I grew up in, the ALC was liberating. Eventually, however, I moved far beyond it. The Missouri Synod and the ALC had as little to do with each other as possible.

            • Sandy

              In MY town both Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Synod were wrong, wrong, wrong.

              I was not allowed to take communion at my boyfriend’s church (Wisc Synod). In fact, I never entered that church until we had been for together for probably 10 years.

            • Missionary Kid

              There’s no greater animosity than what goes on between beliefs that are close, but different.

            • Robert Eckert
            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              If I could, I’d leave you an UP and a DOWN arrow. Up arrow the punchline. DOWN arrow for fucking making me watch Emo Philips man…not cool at all good sir. Good night!

            • Captain Howdy

              I saw the image and I thought “that poor scientology dude kind of looks like Emo Phillips. ” Not for a moment thinking that anyone would upload an actual Emo Phillips anything.

            • Bella Legosi

              wow……….never heard of this man until now i was like this when the vid popped up

              O.O

            • q-bird

              great joke – saw this in written form as a quote by Emo – fun to hear him tell it.

        • Robert Eckert

          “the catholic church evolves” Just at a slow pace. Pius IX, the first Pope to officially declare himself infallible at the Vatican I Council of 1871, locked himself in the Vatican when united Italy finally took over the city of Rome, listing in his famous Syllabus of Errors that [it is error to think] “that the Pope ought to reconcile himself to progress, liberty, and modern civilization.” He made it an excommunicable offense to participate in democratic elections: not to vote for the wrong party, mind you, to vote at all (rather than obeying the divinely appointed authorities). His successor Leo XIII however managed to get geocentric astronomy taken out of the Catechism (Galileo was still not pardoned, but Copernicanism and Newtonian physics were no longer heresies) in the 1890’s, and did left the ban on participating in republican governments: thus bringing the Church into the 18th century, just before the 19th century ended. Pope John XXIII is to be sainted for his Vatican II Council, which brought the Church into the 19th century well before the 20th century ended. It is still going to be a while before the Church enters the 20th century.

    • richelieu jr

      Lack of belief in transubstantiation is absolute heresy, of the sort that used to get you nice and toasty warm. There is no way, ever, ever, ever,t hat the Church can let go of that; It is one of the sacraments without which you are not a Catholic. The COS will admit that Hubbard was a liar and that E-Meters were crackerjacks toys fished out of prison sewer before that will change.

      • Bella Legosi

        That is exactly what my friend had said. Without it the RCC is no different from any other Christian faith. He is a true believer; which is kinda disappointing and creepy. He has a sense of humor tho, so I can joke about him eating Jesus every Sunday. He puts most of my antics off to being young and “ignorant” of ecclesiastical ways of life; therefore sufferable.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Or he’s just horny. ;-)

          • Bella Legosi

            lol you would probably be right. This guy is a doosy in all honesty. What he is doing as a Catholic I have no clue, but he believes and it makes him happy. But, he is a horny old goat. 5 marriages and about 20 years of good old Col. Parker law enforcement may make a man gravitate to a religion that claims to “forgive all transgressions/trespasses”

  • Jeb Burton

    Why would you leave a cult, and go to religion where the leader wears flamboyant dresses and hats? Doesnt anybody just chill, and give religion a rest for a while? Marty is searching every eastern religion for an answer, a bunch of others have went catholic.i dont know if I would leave one religion that has paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars to people to shut them up, to a religion has has paid hundreds of millions to shut people up. You should just quit philosophy for a while, sit back, and if you find something you truly believe in your heart, then go for it. If not, you can a lead a productive life just being a good person who respects their fellow man.

    • Bella Legosi

      At least in a catholic confessional your confessions stay secret!

      I don’t know why so many people are going back to a church who set fire to heretics/unbelievers and molested children! And that is just the tip of a very evil iceberg! My mom was very atheist when she raised me. Then about 7 years ago she got on this Roman Catholicism boat and every now and then docks her insanity from time to time.

      • q-bird

        tip of an iceberg ~ gotcha fine there Bella…

        • Bella Legosi

          >D
          I love it!

        • Bella Legosi

          you might like this

          http://youtu.be/6TxjrHPHypA

          • q-bird

            and I do like it, sure ’nuff Bella – and truth is, I am not all that fond of rap – this was posted a few days ago wasn’t it – by you maybe… ? I watched/listened to it then, was okay, but watching it again just now, I liked it more.

            so – here’s one for you Bella sweetie – http://youtu.be/TSMWtrF4ZVU
            see if you can keep yer toes from tappin’!!
            “Weeds In My Roses”

            aww man, I gotta get to sleep now – I worked a long hard shift today & have to go back in early tomorrow for an even longer one. W O R K – a four-lettered word.

            • Bella Legosi

              Yes, I did link it a couple days ago! I love Trevor and anything WKUK and spread the good news! Thanks for the link too!

    • Remy

      It’s human nature to be curious. I would think people who got sucked in to SCN would be more likely to cherry pick other religions after they leave.

      There _is_ some wisdom that has been conceived over the last few millenia. It’s just best consumed outside of the “organized religion” venue. You know, the “spiritual but not religious” sphere.

    • richelieu jr

      I think you greatly, greatly underestimate the amount $ciloonytoons has paid out, but I take your point…

  • Bella Legosi

    Also, I was talking to my crazy old catholic friend about Co$ yesterday. He was born and grew up in the LA area and went on to become a cop for Huntington Beach during the 60’s and 70’s. So, I figured he would know the weirdness that is $cientology. Surprisingly, he knew next to nothing, but remembers being love-bombed back in the day by them. He also remembered something called. ” EST “? He said that this was a group run by $cientology, mostly for women? He described it as almost a sex cult, and that was one of the things that made him turn his back on anything $cientology.

    He did remember “Dianetics” and when it came out. He laughed Dianutty off for the self help system it was, but remembers a lot of his congregation getting into it and back then the Catholic Church was very suspicious.

    But, I really wanted to know if any of you have heard of this “EST” stuff? I have been told crazy tales by this man before, so I am reluctant to believe him. However, he wasn’t medicated out of existence when he told me this and seemed very lucid, so I am on the fence! Would like to know tho!

    • Captain Howdy
      • Bella Legosi

        No, I am not trolling you…….I heard of it the first time yesterday. My friend was surprised at the extent of my knowledge that I didn’t know who/what they were!

        I still say I am new to all this stuff guys, cuz I kinda am! lol This subject is really massive and filled with so many wacky characters and derails, I am surprised I haven’t given it up yet!

        • Captain Howdy

          I got my high school algebra teacher fired for using EST in the classroom round about 1973.

          • Bella Legosi

            Wow! If you saw me now, my eyes are all wide and I am shaking my head in wonderment.

            I was reading about the treatment of the people undergoing the “est” treatment. The strict rules are the same exact rules I had to abide by in In-School Detention, in Alaska. We were not allowed to speak, unless spoken to, we only got ONE bathroom break all day, one sippy cup of water for the whole day, couldn’t speak during lunch break, couldn’t have any technology (besides a calculator, and only if we brought math work that required it), and if you got all of your work done the “teacher” would assign you letters in the dictionary to copy!

            • Captain Howdy

              Werhard, an ex scilon, streamlined the long con of scientology and didn’t make it organizationally top heavy. It was a huge success for awhile. Hubbard declared him and sicked the GO on his ass. Erhard told Larry King on a phone in that scientology was trying to kill him and he was leaving the country.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Last stop….Grand Cayman!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Little known fact: Hubbard created a counter-program to steal all the people who were likely to go for EST. It was going to have the appeal of EST but then funnel people into scientology. Internally, it was called “Operation Z”, OpZ for short.

              The program itself was going to be called “Personal Enhancement Training” or PET, which was really lame.

              This was still going in 1977-78 and was thought of as the breakthrough to broad acceptance of scientology and new public in, which was declining.

              While working on the Pac renovations and move-in, one thing I did was to make a Logo for this program. It was a guy going up a sweeping set of stairs and standing all shiny at the top. It was just a black ink on illustration board type of “shooting board”. I did this because I had done some custom logos and t-shirt designs for Shelly Bock of “Isness Business” there on fountain avenue.

              Nothing ever came of this program and there were some dismissive reference later from Hubbard about keeping “OpZ types” off important projects.

              What happened to the logo? It looks suspiciously like Golden Era Studios stole the basic design for their logo. Only a minor change replacing the guy with the star at the top.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks for the insider info. i live for stuff like this.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Isness Business? Really? Bwahahahah.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd
            • Bella Legosi

              Thank you for sharing! Wow, learned a lot today I must say!

            • Captain Howdy

              Here you go Bella. A (in house) EST/Erhard documentary from 1981 that I didn’t know existed.

              http://youtu.be/Kt_RuSvFvS0

            • Bella Legosi

              XD

              Thank you!!!

            • richelieu jr

              Sure it’s not ‘Lifemetal’ or ‘Resurrection Metal’?

            • Bella Legosi

              I think you are correct in the wording!

              My dad walked in on that spectical to get my little brother. My little bro got talked into going and my parents let him (cuz it was put on by a freaking Church. They couldn’t be crazy right?) So, he had fun; until the “sermon”. And that is when all the kids got worked up into a crying, guilt frezny; began praying and running up to be saved. When my dad showed up they had the “Ressurection Metal” blaring and like 10 kids kneeling at the pastors feet crying, praying for forgiveness.

              When he came home he was pissed and freaked out. He ordered me to stay away from those people and then called the pastor to give him a piece of his mind. I stayed away from them as it was. Wearing Marilyn Manson shirts around these folks was like wearing a big sign that says “PLEASE CONVERT ME! I KNOW NOT WHAT I DO”. It kinda sucked and is a big reason why I don’t like those who rock the Christ kool aid, in any form.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Whoa Bella! What church was that?

            • Bella Legosi

              It is King’s Way Church in Eagle River AK. Their church was literally 3 blocks from my house. I looked them up on google today after posting and they are still there with the same Pastor Jack! Their “fun center” I was unable to find. I am cloudy on the name tho. I think it was called Zeebos or Zoe, something like that. But this congregation were filled with back to Christ, born again, Creed rockers, and their kids. And they had a lot of them. The Jesus kids who went to my high school formed a Prayer Club, back when it was controversial to have a prayer club in public schools (and that is exactly why they formed one). They did go around and actively try to get other kids to go to this center. Some went and were really turned off by the “sermons”.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Some turned off? Ummyeah! That shit can really cause trauma to a child.

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah, my little brother is pretty damn atheist today because of it! At least he had the sense to call home!

          • richelieu jr

            Good man, CH.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hubbard wasn’t busting broncos when he was 6, but Howdy was busting cultees when he was a Lovecraft reading, Nico listening 15 year old..YEE-HAW motherfuckers!

        • ze moo

          EST is the multi-level marketing self help group that CO$ tried to be with Dianutty. No help, except by your self and you had to pay up the pyramid for the pleasure of helping yourself. Werner Erhard is the leader, a former clam he wanted the money for himself.

          • aquaclara

            So 1970’s. Ikes.

        • sister wendy

          not reading the links-no time this second, but will check them later. I do know EST came out of sci-bot land and it’s on the big no no SP list. Scios are not to have any contact with EST processes or EST people (we are to be wary;) And Landmark. I got into trouble because I know a bunch of people who did stuff with it and several auditing processes got very slowed down with endless sec-checks on this to make sure I was not contaminated by the EST-ers;) Also, my ex did a lot of Landmark when we split and in my opinion it was the only thing that gave him any humanity- so I was grateful he went for a bit. The EST friends made me laugh all the time, because they kept referring to being Clear all the time. “Are we CLEAR on that?” “Is it CLEAR what we are having for dinner?” “Are you CLEAR what I said?” It was like a whole new aberration on the word;)

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you for sharing!

          • Captain Howdy

            Isn’t there a special rundown for dealing with people “abberated” by contact with EST?

            • Semper Phi

              Yes, there is. EST has its very own correction list.

            • sister wendy

              haha! I barely escaped it! That was my goal- not to spend my auditing money on this correction list

            • sister wendy

              yes!

        • stateofcircle

          EST turned into The Landmark Forum. When I was about 17, my boss -an incredibly positive and successful independent woman, would talk about it non stop. There was another girl working in the office a few years older than me who was a little…troubled. Anyway, my boss got this girl to go to the forum and she really seemed to transform into a much happier, positive person. My boss would always try to get me to go, and eventually I caved. I guess they have these open “forums” where members bring new people, and a bunch of the participants share their stories of how much the program has helped and changed them. Employees of the Forum were constantly bombarding all the new people, including me, trying to get us all to write checks for these forums/classes/circlejerks that would absolutely change our lives. It was very uncomfortable for me and others I saw. The experience, in my opinion, was very similar to an “interview” I got tricked into going to for the Cutco knives MLM scam when I was about 16 or 17 (I wanted an after school / weekend job and the ad in the Pennysaver for it seemed awesome, I was young and stupid, and got stuck in a bare-bones office listening to crazy people tell me now rich I was going to get by selling knives, and there was a lot of talk about destiny…). It just really wasn’t for me, and definitely felt cultish. At least they are an admitted for-profit organization that doesn’t pretend to be a religion. Any my boss was totally respectful and fine with me not wanting to do it. The whole experience creeped me out, and just seemed like it was made up of generalities and platitudes, much like what I understand the intro Sciloon classes to be like.

          I will say that the girl I worked with really did seemed to be helped by it, but I also suspect she was at a point in her life when she was ready for a change. All of the pressure to sign up and pay and listening to participats all basically telling the same story of how they They sucked before the Forum and now they’re an awesome because of it. Now that I’m thinking of it, when they were hard selling, they would acknowledge that it wasn’t cheap, but it is the best way -the only way – to spend your money, because your happiness and ability is at sake, just like the Scientogist’s do.

          • stateofcircle

            Ugh diqsuc won’t let me edit, but I just wanted to add that it seemed to me that at these Forums nothing really happened besides people sharing their stories of how good they feel now, over and over and over. It didn’t seek like they actually did anything besides answering questions about what a piece of shit you are and then figuring out that you’re better now and telling everyone.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I actually did the Landmark Forum. It was a looooonnnng weekend. There were a bunch of exercises (similar to TRs from what I hear) and yes, lots of sharing. There were a few kernals of workable or usable things in there which I enjoyed and which made a difference. I could, however, clearly see the cult mindset and the pressure to do more classes and bring family and friends. Plus the people were a bit too chirpy. I received one or two calls after that, but I asked them to take me off their call list which they did.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        She is young!

        • Captain Howdy

          Is she legal?

          • Bella Legosi

            *shakes head*
            Yes, but the real question still remains…………..

            • Bella Legosi

              ahhhhh, nothing more relaxing then an ambiguous, dental, torture session!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              VERY close to hot coffee thru the nose. Thank you.

    • Missionary Kid

      Read the part about Co$ under lawsuits in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_H._Erhard

    • richelieu jr

      God, there were still those EST maniacs running around when I was there… Are there any more boring, intense, jerks than those clowns (with the exception of disciples of Ayn Rand of course!) Randians and the EST crown have all the bad traits of $ciloons, with none of the good motivations and erstwhile humanitarianism.

      • Spackle Motion

        Whenever I see the word “Randian”, I think that they are disciples of James Randi, not that horrid Ayn Rand. I still love the “5 Stupid Things about Ayn Rand” video:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0CyunRUJmc

        • Captain Howdy

          Spot on. I have no object(ivism) to randroids, laissez-faireheads taking a swim in the Lamprey pool.

        • richelieu jr

          Wow, thanks for turning me on to these little rants!

          You must have seen ‘Five Stupid Things About Scientology, of course?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5_hLCCtDsI

          • Spackle Motion

            Yes, that’s how I stumbled upon this guy’s rants. They are great and I haven’t found one that I disagree with.

      • aquaclara

        EST maniacs…. They were so tiresome. It wouldn’t be a big surprise to find that some clams were also into EST.

      • q-bird

        have you seen this Richelieu Jr. ???

        http://youtu.be/K5YWTFW5WMw

        • richelieu jr

          Sure have q-bird! hilarious!

  • stateofcircle

    About the fact that Sciloons not being able to edit Wikipedia articles…. Couldn’t some OSA flunkie just set up their own personal account and edit one through that? The whole ban on {the church} being able to edit seems silly to me for this reason. Granted, I have zero clue as to how one goes about editing Wikipedia pages, but this alleged ban seems very easy to get around. As for the PTSSP that edited Leah’s page, if they don’t have a credibly history editing pages, isn’t that a red flag? Also, while she may not come out criticizing the church, I feel like this whole catholic proclamation is a little dramatic. You’re a well known Sciloon and expect at no one will notice that you’ve completely changed religions, and vocally at that? To me, it’s still a pretty big slap in the face to Scientology.

    • Bella Legosi

      I would have to assume that the Scientology page for Wiki is one of those flagged pages. Meaning that whenever anyone tries to edit them, some warning or flag is put in place for a real human to moderate and review.

      • stateofcircle

        Ahhh at makes sense, thanks Bella!

  • FistOfXenu

    Disqonnectus isn’t letting me respond to comments so let’s see if I can post a new 1. A while ago it wouldn’t let me log in. This is a test.

    • Minion Gayle

      All of the above.

  • Leslie Stipe

    WTF??? Did everyone freebase caffeine today? Or down an energy shot or twelve?

    There are over 570 posts!

    I think this confirms that I may as well cancel my subscription to Netflix ’cause at this point I’m never going to get caught up on Breaking Bad.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Lots of us had the day off…..not that a silly little thing like work stops many of you from posting.

      • Leslie Stipe

        I got that! When I checked the site at work this morning there were 3 posts! Of course, Tony’s site gets checked before email or anything else at work.

        It’s all about priorities!

      • sugarplumfairy

        As long as hospitals have linen closets, I’ll be posting at work..

        • Captain Howdy

          That’s about what I figured. Closets, bathrooms, pulling the curtain around comatose patients.

    • Remy

      I think many people came out of the wood work to contribute to Tony’s July 4th post, and I suspect there will be (hopefully) many more ex-SCN who feel comfortable contributing here, now that they have a safe forum to tell their story.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Here’s to hoping. Yesterday was nice.

    • pronoia

      And no down voters!

      • pronoia

        hey!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I’m glad a few others followed my lead.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. That was funny.. even your hey! got a down vote..

    • Spackle Motion

      There’s ALWAYS time to catch up on Breaking Bad. But you should know that Netflix leaves out the first eight episodes of the fifth season (the last 8 episodes are also a part of Season 5).

      • Leslie Stipe

        Thanks, I’m on season 4, episode 1 and it shook me up too much so I had to take a break!

        So, I started watching Game of Thrones on HBOGO and I just finished season 1 (and yes, I know about the Red Wedding episode). I have learned that even in harsh medieval conditions some men will always have fashionably pleated coats and incest is not as frowned upon as one would hope. Oh yeah, dragons are real. And winter is coming. And winter is coming. And winter is coming. On and on about winter.
        Oh, the vertically challenged dude is the BEST part of the show. And I don’t mean DM.

        • Spackle Motion

          You just reminded me that I need to start watching Game of Thrones. I have no television to obsess over until Breaking Bad starts up in another month.

          • Leslie Stipe

            Dexter?

            • Spackle Motion

              I tried to watch that show. I got to about season 3 or 4 and it just got too stupid. The sister was super annoying and I usually watch episodes back-to-back, and Dexter is incorrigible when viewed like this. So I gave up.

            • Leslie Stipe

              I agree that Dexter is a show viewed best weekly which I normally don’t like viewing that way either. Season 1 and 2 were great but it went south. Season 4 with John Lithgow was outstanding. There are certain scenes in that season that give me chills. Since I’ve watched it from the beginning I’m going to watch ’til the end which is soon!

          • Bella Legosi

            :(
            Season 3 already ended! And I am very angry with AMC for putting off the last 4 Breaking Bad episodes for an entire year!

            • Spackle Motion

              Actually there are 16 episodes in Season 5. The first 8 aired last summer and the final 8 start in early August.

            • Bella Legosi

              Really?
              :)
              This whole time I thought they put the last four hours of the series on hold! Okay, now I am not that angry at AMC, but HOW THE HELL are they going to drag on that Walt is like….busted???? Errrrrrr enturbulates me almost as watching the season finale of Supernatural this season and last season! I need my angle fix damn it!

        • Captain Howdy

          Breaking Bad disturbed you so you decided to watch GoT’s instead? WTF?..even I was appalled by Red Wedding.

          • Leslie Stipe

            I’m fucked up…what can I say?

            I really had no idea what GOT was about but heard ppl talking about it and decided to start watching. I’ll be honest, the first episode was so long and boringly painful but I stuck with it because I’m hardheaded plus the little guy is great!
            And I didn’t know what BB was about either before I started watching except I knew it dealt with meth and I thought it was a father/son team making it. Didn’t know the main character was dying. Love that show though!

            • Spackle Motion

              Breaking Bad is not as layered as shows like the Sopranos or Mad Men, but it is excellent television. You can really see how the protagonist becomes the antagonist and villain. But the more I watch it, the more I realize that Aaron Paul really isn’t well suited for that role. He’s a good actor but there are many other actors that really could get into the immaturity and skeeviness of meth-heads/dealers.

            • Leslie Stipe

              I’m going to ponder that because I have always thought if an actor plays a part and you cannot envision anyone else in that part then that’s the right choice. And I think that is rare. The Sopranos was so good and I was late getting on board with that one too but I loved James Gandolfini and he was the perfect choice for that role. I never cared for Lorraine Bracco but I love Michael Imperioli. A man with dark hair and dark eyes is my weakness. It would be nice if he were taller.
              Back to Aaron Paul…

            • Spackle Motion

              I love everything about the Sopranos and know each episode almost by heart. Michael Imperioli wrote many of the episodes and he’s a fantastic actor. I don’t know if you’ve seen him in “54” but he was the only good thing about that movie.

            • Bella Legosi

              They stick pretty damn close to the culture tho

          • Robert Eckert

            That was the only episode I have seen. My friend who was addicted to it insisted that I watch it (this was late at night after I’d driven from Pittsburgh to Boston, 12 hours because I took a wrong turn toward the end). He was very upset about his favorite characters getting killed; I told him I would care more if I had any idea who they were.

          • Bella Legosi

            I saw the Red Wedding coming, only because I read thecliff notes. I have a feeling HBO is tryingto push the envelope on fucked up shit it broadcasts! I mean did anyone NEED to see Jimmy fuck his mom on Boardwalk Empire!? NO we didnt, but they insisted on showing that awkward scene and when Jimmy gets killed, people were really surprised! You cant feature a main character have a weird and gross relationship with his mom, climaxed with a sex scene, and expect people NOT to think that everytime he comes on camera! Now you lnow why I quit watching Boardwalk Empire!

            • Captain Howdy

              I quit watching Boardwalk Empire after Jimmy and the phantom scalped the old dude. I thought that was ridiculously over the top and implausible. From what I’ve read about what happens at the red wedding in the novels, it isn’t remotely as graphic as what was depicted onscreen. Rob’s wife isn’t even there, so it’s definitely sensationalistic to say the least. I still enjoy the show though.

            • Bella Legosi

              I tried to hang on to season 3 of Boardwalk, but got real disinterested. The whole thing with Jimmy and his mom really turned me off of the whole show, it was really unneeded. I love the Phantom Charater. And I think he was actually based on a badass Finnish sniper who killed A LOT of Commies during their small war with Russia. The name eludes my pot fogged memory, but has become a favorite inspiration for my ex when he is on Call of Duty. Guy survived an exploding bullet in the face and still took down a squad of Ruskies. Damn it I wish I knew the name so I could linky link! He is freakin interesting!

  • media_lush

    After the recent catastrophic failures of their top level celeb scientologists the cult has resorted to sending DNA to North Korea to produce the Über Celeb Scion

    • Bella Legosi

      That could totally be sold to SyFy as a movie these days!

  • SP ‘Onage

    Actress Diana Canova, best known for her role on the 1970s sitcom Soap, told Premire magazine in 1993 she had a hard time leaving the religion. “It took me years before I decided to quit,” Canova, 59, said. “I guess finally I was so fed up with being afraid. You’ve heard all these horror stories . . . I believed them.”

    Maybe Leah and her husband are afraid like Diana Conova was? I really hope she has left because I liked her comedy, but until it is confirmed I won’t watch her.

  • Captain Howdy

    Off topic (detects collective eye roll) Venezuela has offered Edward Snowden sanctuary! Good luck making it there Ed.

    • Espiando

      There’s nothing stopping the Venezuelan embassy in Moscow from issuing Snowden a diplomatic passport, which, by international protocol, the Russians have to honor.

      • Captain Howdy

        But will we try to intercept the plane like we did with the Bolivian president?

        • sister wendy

          maybe he’ll just hang out at the embassy there for awhile. Like Assange in London

    • Bella Legosi

      Ha thats what I thought.

      Imagine the de-briefing session with them!

    • q-bird
      • Robert Eckert

        Ecuador only says they will consider his asylum request if he is on Ecuadorean soil

        • q-bird

          Interesting & good to know the facts Robert… he’s stuck in an airport right now, isn’t he?

          • Robert Eckert

            He may be there for years.

      • Sunny Sands

        Why are we giving Ecuador $23 million in the first place?

        • q-bird

          - I do not know – I have never quite understood global finances & politics… too simple minded I am, too small time. Other posters (especially John P.) help me to understand the bigger pictures. I merely thought this one country’s response to the USA was interesting & appropriate.

          Hiya Sunny ~ love your AV ~ aimer les fleurs! loving the summer colors.
          :-)

  • dbloch7986

    I certainly hope she has. I had the pleasure of meeting her in the Sea Org in 2003 when she was doing OT V at AOLA. She came through the reg area and gave everyone chocolate covered strawberries. She always struck me as far too humble and far too nice to be a truly dedicated Scientologist.

    • Missionary Kid

      Good to hear that she was nice to you, Derek.

      • dbloch7986

        I met her a couple of times and she was always nice. She did not have that same arrogant pig headed attitude that most OTs have.

        • Missionary Kid

          Even if she was a bitch on wheels, I’d wish for her to blow and find a better life. Since she does have a nice side, I hope her experience is quick and she’s able to escape with little trauma.

      • sister wendy

        I know- that makes me so happy to hear too. People nice to Derek- yay!

        • Missionary Kid

          Agreed. Yay Derek!

          This reminds me. Flunk 101 can be as much of a jerk as he wants towards sugarplumfairy and Midwest Mom, who are capable of taking care of themselves, but his jealousy and viciousness towards Derek pisses me off.

          Derek is learning to take care of himself, but he’s had zero previous experience out of the cult, because he was born into it. Derek not only didn’t have any experience outside, but he’s a kid who had his immediate family, deep in the cult, viciously turn on him because he’s gay.

          Flunk has no empathy.

    • Shannon

      I hope that is the case (that shes a nice woman), my uncle worked with her on King of Queens and said she was an absolute terror. He always attributed that to Scientology but I moreso think that was just the easiest way for him to justify it to himself…

      • dbloch7986

        Whenever I encountered her she was always nice to me.

  • dbloch7986

    On another note, I am noticing an uptick in “guest votes”. Looks like a lot more people are reaching outside the bubble for information…

  • montananut

    Just to play a little devil’s advocate here, but could it also be that she is making an effort to distance her career from her connection to the “Church of D(a) M(idget)”? I could see this as a possibility just because of all the horrible press they have been getting lately, and the fact that she has in the past put herself out there as a staunch supporter. Since King of Queens ended she has surely been looking for work and it seems a good guess that studios might shy away from someone with connections to this cult right now, especially since After Earth took such a beating partly because of Smith’s connection to it. This could explain why any references have disappeared from her website and wiki page, and she is avoiding any public comments about Cof$ specifically, yet she hasn’t taken any steps to make it obvious what her position is. She has always claimed to be a catholic and a sciloon, so the reference to prayer could just be her way of reaffirming her catholic roots, and at the same time slyly avoiding the Sci reference.

    I really hope she has left, but in the world of Hollyweird, this scenario would make sense as well.

    • Poison Ivy

      I’m sort of fantasizing that a few Scilon Celebs have gotten wind of the vast amount of negative info out there and – probably combined with torturous regging and sec checking – are starting to feel the disillusionment.
      To those Scilon Celebs reading this, I say: “Read the evidence. SEE the evidence. Reach out to exes. Get out and take time to decompress. But once you have, do the world a favor and help rid the earth of this incredibly destructive cult.”

      • Missionary Kid

        Somehow, I thought of the musical, Tommy, when I read the commands, “Read…. SEE… Reach out… Get out…”

        Celebs are very sensitive to the fact that their careers are dependent, not only on their talent, but on the whims of the public, and if they’re perceived as being a part of something negative, it can kill their career. Co$ is now becoming perceived as negative by the general public. It is no longer the career aid it once was thought to be, and now, thanks to TC, is looked at as being nutball at the best.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Amen!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Someone edited Leah’s Wiki page only two hours ago and it mentions scientology again:

    “Personal life

    On July 19, 2003, Remini, who is Roman Catholic, married Los Angeles restaurateur Angelo Pagán who has also appeared on The King of Queens as Rico and other various characters. They have a daughter, Sofia Bella, born on June 16, 2004.

    Remini is also a member of the Church of Scientology. In May 2001, she told Howard Stern, “I’ve been a Scientologist for half my life.” In December 2005, she helped promote the gala opening of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights Psychiatry: An Industry of Death museum on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood. Responding to criticism of Scientology during an interview on CNN, Remini said:

    If somebody is going to get turned off about
    something because of what they read or heard, then that person’s not
    smart enough to even enter a church. If you’re really against something,
    then know what you’re against.

    This page was last modified on 6 July 2013 at 00:54.”

    Hmm… I wonder if Leah is being “handled”.

    • Bella Legosi

      Good eye

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thanks, that’s what I get checks for from the SMERSH and Big Pharma.

        • Bella Legosi

          You know I am suspecting that this whole “being paid by big pharma” thing is a gigantic LIE!!!!

          Why haven’t I been approached? I am a fan of big pharma! They a bunch of chemical wizards!

          • DodoTheLaser

            Hahaha! Yeah, I know, they only pay me in my dreams!
            Now SMERSH, on the other hand… I can’t talk about it. LOL

            • Bella Legosi

              SMERS——whaaaa?

              *wink*

    • Zana

      Wow. Remember — her family is all in the church. Good realization — that she might be being “handled.”

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Actually, the reference was removed by an “unknown” Wikipedia user with the handle “SPPTS” on July 1. It was restored on July 6 by Wikipedia user Laval.

      Just click on the “View History” tab on the upper right hand edge of the bar at the top of the entry to see how revisions have been done, when, and by whom.

  • Dean Fox

    I’m not sure Leah’s website is an indicator of anything since it doesn’t look to have been updated since much after January 2012, unless I’m missing something, and as far as charities go not since November 11th 2011. I’d be more impressed with massive changes to remove church of scientology stuff.

  • sonia henne

    I remember Leah when she was still in her teens. She was ordered to Ethics for being late to course. She had been auditioning for Cheers which she landed but prior to that was just a struggling wanna be actress. I overheard her arguing with the Ethics Officer as to why she should not be penalized for her lateness and why she will probably need more time off because of a probable callback. She stood her ground and let him know she wasn’t going to take his crap. Even though I didn’t know her at the time, I was intrigued and impressed. When I saw her on Cheers I knew she had made it. This gal is fearless and smart. If she has gotten out, which I hope she has I wish her all the best.

  • Mrs Libnish

    I always loved her on King of Queens. One of my friends said that I remind them of her character. I was like..ya, well, ok thanks! I was bummed out when I learned she was a Scilon. Now, I guess I don’t have to be and can now go back to enjoying my reruns….

  • Big Daddy Kane

    I left the Church? Dang she looks good for her age. lol