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—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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In His New Book, Is Neil Gaiman Exorcising His Scientology Past?

OceanCoverNeil Gaiman’s new book, The Ocean at the End of Lane, is garnering good reviews and a lot of attention as his first novel for adults in eight years. Gaiman, 52, is well known for his fantasy and science fiction, including The Sandman comic series, the Hugo-winning novel American Gods, the Hugo-winning novella Coraline, and much more.

The Ocean at the End of the Lane is a mesmerizing read that should please Gaiman’s many fans. We were charmed by its tale of childhood danger and myth stemming from a mysterious suicide on a country lane.

But there’s also a lot here to consider for Scientology watchers. As Gaiman has said in press interviews, his idea for the book came from an actual suicide of a lodger staying in his family’s home a short distance from Scientology’s UK headquarters, where Neil’s father was a prominent executive. And now that we’ve read it, we can say there’s a lot more about Neil’s Scientology past that makes this an interesting read.

Gaiman has called the suggestion that he’s still involved with the Church of Scientology “bonkers”, and we tend to believe him. If he hasn’t criticized Scientology or even really spoken much at all about leaving it behind, it’s not hard to understand why, with his two sisters still in the church, as well as his ex-wife, whom he still remains friends with. If he were to say a harsh word about the church, Gaiman might find himself completely cut off from his family members still in Scientology, a consequence of the church’s toxic “disconnection” policy.

But if Gaiman has generally avoided the subject, with this book — which he has called his “most personal, ever” — he had to know that he would face questions about his upbringing, his father, and L. Ron Hubbard. And after reading it, we think that’s actually what Gaiman had in mind.

 

…….

 

The book begins with a dedication to Gaiman’s current wife, former Dresden Dolls musician Amanda Palmer: “For Amanda, who wanted to know”

That dedication certainly should have resonance for our readers. Before we explain why, here’s how Gaiman himself explained the genesis of this book in a BBC interview this week:

 
Neil_Gaiman

 

GAIMAN: It’s absolutely not autobiographical in the sense that it happened to me…And it’s not autobiographical in the sense that the family is not my family. But it’s very, very close to my point of view. I wrote the book because my wife, Amanda, was making a record. She was in Melbourne, Australia, for four months working on a record. And I missed her. So I wrote what started out as a short story for her and then just didn’t stop. And what I had in mind when I wanted to write the short story was something that told her what I was like when I was seven, what it was like to look at the world through my eyes. And also what the landscape that I grew up in was like because that isn’t really there any more. People have built houses all over it, you can’t go back and see it. So I began describing this thing, using elements of fantasy I had when I was a small kid, using an anecdote that I heard about when I was in my forties, that I discovered that we had a lodger who killed himself using our car at the end of our lane, which I’d never known about. And just that piece of information. I thought, well, what would have happened if I’d have been there, what would have happened if it had had strange reverberations, and created a story out of that.

NICK HIGHAM: The landscape of this book is East Sussex, you grew up in East Grinstead. And you lived there because your father worked for the Church of Scientology, which is based there, which begs the question, are you now or have you ever been a Scientologist?

GAIMAN: As a child, I suppose I was as much a Scientologist as I was Jewish, which is to say it was the family religion. Am I now? No.

HIGHAM: When did you, as it were, lose the faith?

GAIMAN: I think, I’m, what am I — I’m a writer. And I think for me what fascinates me most is possibilities, is ideas. Um, so even as a kid, I had so many, there were so many religious backgrounds going on. I was at a high church, Church of England school, and I was a reader of science fiction fantasy, that everything sort of became one glorious — what’s the word — morass, blancmange of belief.

 
Amanda Palmer was in Melbourne from mid-March last year, and Gaiman says she was there for four months, which means she finished up recording her album, Theatre Is Evil, about the time Neil finished writing The Ocean at the End of the Lane, in July 2012.

During that time, however, Palmer managed to make a trip to New York in May 2012, and while she was here she crashed the book party of Kate Bornstein, as we reported at the Village Voice.

At the time, we found it very interesting that Palmer supported Bornstein’s book, which describes serving as Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s first mate on the yacht Apollo in the early 1970s. Ultimately, Bornstein soured on Scientology and has lost her daughter and granddaughter to the organization.

We got the distinct impression that Palmer, who had married Gaiman the year before, was intrigued by Bornstein’s tale because it does such a good job explaining the mentality of a Scientologist, and from such an insider. At the time, Palmer must have been trying to understand Gaiman’s own past in the organization.

In that light, the book’s dedication — “For Amanda, who wanted to know” — reads to us as Gaiman’s acknowledgment that his wife wanted to hear about his childhood as a Scientologist, which was at least part of the reason he wrote The Ocean at the End of the Lane.

But does that mean that the book should be read as a history of Neil’s time in the church?

 

…….

 

When Will Smith’s movie After Earth debuted recently, critics panned it and pointed out some of its thematic similarities with Scientology. Carnegie Mellon professor David Touretzky denied that there was any Scientology in the film, while former church member Marc Headley disagreed and said that Smith had undoubtedly seeded the movie with Scientology’s ideas.

We suspect that a similar debate may start up about The Ocean at the End of the Lane. Having read it, we can say that there is no Scientology in it — as far as an explicit representation of the church and how it operates. However, as in After Earth, there are quite a few concepts that mirror the ideas of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, ideas that church members would likely recognize.

In the story, the unnamed narrator’s adventures are fueled by an odd family of three women known as the Hempstocks. Gradually, the narrator comes to realize that Lettie and her mother and her grandmother are magical beings who are as old as the universe itself. This seemed very reminiscent of Scientology’s notion of “thetans” — that we are immortal beings who have lived as long as the universe, but without the help of Scientology we are unable to see our true, immortal nature.

The narrator briefly gets a glimpse of the Hempstocks’ power when he is submerged in Lettie’s “ocean” — the pond behind the Hempstock farm. During that moment of clarity, the narrator feels that he perceives all possible knowledge, but it starts to slip away once he is out of the water. He asks Lettie if that’s how she goes through life, with such a complete awareness of the universe.

“It’s really nothing special, knowing how things work. And you really do have to give it all up if you want to play.”

“To play what?”

“This,” she said. She waved at the house and the sky and the impossible full moon and the skeins and shawls and clusters of bright stars.

When we read that, we couldn’t help thinking of L. Ron Hubbard’s assertion that some quadrillion years ago, all-powerful thetans had got to playing around and had created a “MEST” universe — an actual, tangible place of matter, energy, space, and time, and that’s when all the trouble had started.

Lettie later goes through a traumatic experience that appears to leave her dead, but her mother and grandmother assure the narrator that Lettie will eventually be back, after they put her in her “ocean” and she’s carried away by a wave.

The Hempstocks also tell the narrator that he has often visited them over the years, but then always forgets that he does.

Hubbard told his followers that between lives, after we’ve left one corporeal body and then pick up another one, our memories are erased by intergalactic invader forces occupying our solar system so that our true nature as powerful, immortal beings can be kept from us. These “between-life implants” are forced on us at stations on Venus and Mars; after processing, a freshly implanted thetan is then thrown into the ocean at the Gulf of California and then has to make its way to a new human body. Only through his discoveries, Hubbard said, could these implants be erased so that thetans could remain aware of who they were, lifetime to lifetime.

We found several other passages in the book that reminded us of Scientology’s basic ideas, but it’s just as easy to point out that Gaiman is playing with some pretty standard tropes of fantasy and science fiction.

It would probably be a mistake to say that Gaiman is making any kind of statement — positive or negative — about the church and his background in it.

But the truth is, Gaiman’s grounding in Scientology was extensive, and the period he’s mining for fiction could not have been more significant.

The unnamed narrator in the book is seven years old — in fact, it’s the disastrously poor turnout to his seventh birthday that opens the story. In real life, Gaiman was seven when the suicide happened at the end of the lane of his family estate.

But it was also that same month — August, 1968, that Neil Gaiman’s ardent involvement as a Scientologist became a national issue.

 

…….

 

In 1965, David and Sheila Gaiman moved their family to East Grinstead as they became involved in Scientology, which was headquartered at Saint Hill Manor. L. Ron Hubbard had moved there in 1959 after repeated clashes with American authorities sent him looking for greener pastures.

Gaiman quickly moved up in the organization and was soon doing public relations work. He can be seen briefly in this news report about Scientology’s clash with locals in East Grinstead in 1968. It’s Gaiman who is standing next to Jane Kember, who ran Scientology’s spy wing — the “Guardian’s Office” — for Hubbard and his wife Mary Sue.

 

 
As the video indicates, there was a lot of concern about the young people flocking from overseas to Saint Hill Manor to study Scientology. Scientologists knew they weren’t welcome, but they argued back that they were subject to discrimination.

When David’s son Neil was denied entry to a prep school because of his religious affiliation, Gaiman made sure the BBC heard about it.

Last year, we were the first to post online the transcript from a radio interview of seven-year-old Neil Gaiman, who had been offered to the BBC as the model of a young Scientologist…

 
NeilGaimanChild

 

Neil Gaiman 7-years-old, Radio Interview BBC Radio ‘World at Weekend’, August 1968.

Keith Graves: What is Scientology?
Neil: It is an applied philosophy dealing with the study of knowledge.

Keith Graves: Do you know what philosophy is?
Neil: I used to, but I’ve forgotten.

Keith Graves: Who told you that meaning of Scientology?
Neil: In clearer words, it’s a way to make the able person more able.

Keith Graves: What does it do for you — Scientology — does it make you feel a better boy?
Neil: Not exactly that, but when you make a release you feel absolutely great.

Keith Graves: Do you get what you call a release very often, or do you have this all the time?
Neil: Well, you only keep a release all the time when you get Clear. I’m six courses away from Clear.

Keith Graves: You’re on a particular grade are you?
Neil: Well, I’ve just passed Grade I; I’m not Grade II yet.

Keith Graves: What is Grade I?
Neil: Problems Release.

Keith Graves: And what does this mean to you, Problems Release?
Neil: It helps you to handle quite a lot of problems.

Keith Graves: What problems do you have as a little boy that this helps you with?
Neil: Only one big problem.

Keith Graves: What’s that?
Neil: My friend Stephen.

Keith Graves: Oh, I see. Is he a Scientologist?
Neil: Yes.

Keith Graves: But I mean, how does this grade that you’ve got, Problems Release, help you to deal with Stephen?
Neil: Well, you know, I’ve dealed with every single problem except Stephen, one thing Problems Release can’t help me to handle.

Keith Graves: So you still fight with Stephen?
Neil: It’s more of a question he fights with me.

Keith Graves: He’s older than you, presumably.
Neil: Yes.

Keith Graves: And he’s three grades ahead of you?
Neil: In a way, but you see, there are six main courses; but there are ever so many in-between courses. I’ve just finished three, and that’s Engrams.

Keith Graves: What are Engrams?
Neil: Engrams are a mental image picture containing pain and unconsciousness.

Keith Graves: And what does this mean to you?
Neil: Well, shall I tell you? — I’ll give you a demonstration. You’re walking along the street, and a car hooted and somebody shouted, “shooo’, and a dog barked, and you tripped over a bit of metal and hurt your knee. Three years later, say, you were walking along that same place and someone shouted “shooo”, and a car hooted, and a dog barked, and suddenly you feel pain in your knee. I’ve had one Engram that I can remember. I was jumping off the television set. We’ve got a gigantic television set, but it doesn’t work. Onto my mom’s bed and, you see, I jumped and I hit my head on the chandelier, and you know it really hurt; and I looked up and I saw it swinging, and a few minutes later I tried to test an Engram, so I set it swinging and I looked up there, and I suddenly had a headache.

Keith Graves: And how old were you when this happened?
Neil: Around three months ago.

Keith Graves: Oh, I see. How long have you been studying Scientology?
Neil: I started at five, now I’m seven.

Keith Graves: Seven years old. Extraordinary, isn’t it?

 
The reason we have this radio transcript was that the church printed up pamphlets intending to sway members of Parliament about Scientology’s supposed persecution. Neil’s interview was just one of several things in that pamphlet.

One wonders how much Neil Gaiman today remembers that he was being used by Scientology as an example of its beneficial effect on children as a national debate about the church swirled in the press.

 

…….

 

What Gaiman says he definitely did not know at the time was that the same month he gave the BBC interview — August 1968 — there was a suicide on his family’s property.

To help make ends meet, the Gaimans took in lodgers among the Scientology students who had come to Saint Hill. And one of them, a 29-year-old South African man named Johannes Hermanus Scheepers, was found dead in the Gaiman family Mini on August 31, 1968. According to an article written at the time, Scheepers had connected a hose from the car’s exhaust to its interior, and had died of carbon monoxide poisoning…

 
ScheepersArticle

Suicide Verdict on South African
From Our Correspondent — East Grinstead, Sept. 4 [1968]

A verdict of suicide was recorded at an East Grinstead inquest today on a South African, Johannes Hermanus Scheepers, aged 29, described on his alien registration card as a student of scientology.

Mr. Scheepers was said to have been staying at the home of Mr. David Gaiman, Harwood House South, Harwoods Lane, a mile from the scientologists’ international headquarters at Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead.

Mr. Gaiman, aged 35, a senior executive of the cult, denied on oath that the dead man had been student of scientology at Saint Hill.

Asked by Dr. Angus Summerville, the East Sussex coroner, why Mr. Scheepers had come to Britain, Mr. Gaiman said: "I assume that he came to gamble. That was the activity that took his interest."

Mr. Gaiman said he was introduced to Mr. Scheepers two-and-a-half months ago. Mr. Scheepers had stayed at his house in Harwoods Lane for a short time and then left, saying he was going to Brighton.

On Thursday evening, August 29, Mr. Scheepers arrived at his house and said he was flying back to South Africa on Saturday. A bed was wade up for him. "Scheepers had mentioned casually to my wife that his gambling system had broken down, and from that I gathered the impression he was broke", Mr. Gaiman said.

Police-constable Albert Walker said Mr. Scheepers was found on August 31 in a car parked in Harwoods Lane. A plastic pipe wedged into the exhaust entered the car by a window. Dr. Albert Sachs, a pathologist said the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning.

Police-constable Colin Daffiest, the coroner’s officer, said Mr. Scheepers left two letters, saying he was going to take his own life and that this had nothing to do with scientology or being a member of the group. His flight back to South Africa had been cancelled.

After the inquest Mr. Gaiman said a check had shown that Mr. Scheepers had not been registered at any scientology establishment in Britain.

 
Even today, 45 years later, David Gaiman’s denials that Scheepers was in any way connected to Scientology seem problematic, as does the notion that Scheepers would have exonerated Scientology in a suicide note and also bothered to cancel his flight home.

In Gaiman’s book, it’s an unnamed opal miner from South Africa who kills himself in the same way after briefly coming to board at the home of the narrator.

The opal miner has left behind two suicide notes (we hear about them from the Hempstocks, who mysteriously seem to know about them), and the notes blame the opal miner’s despair on his bad luck in gambling.

In a strange way, it’s as if Neil Gaiman, in his novel, is providing support for his father’s real-life assertion that the suicide, Scheepers, had died because of gambling, and not because of his involvement with Scientology.

 

…….

 

David Gaiman died in 2009 at the age of 75. While he was alive, he was known as a pugnacious promoter of Scientology. He was an unindicted co-conspirator (along with L. Ron Hubbard himself) when 11 Scientology executives were prosecuted for the largest infiltration of the US government in its history. From 1973 until the church was raided by the FBI in 1977, Scientology’s spy wing, the Guardian’s Office, sent operatives to infiltrate hundreds of government offices around the world to pilfer files about the church.

Gaiman rose to be the Guardian’s Office top public relations official in the world. His own contribution to the GO’s many plots was dreaming up “Operation Cat,” a scheme to plant false information in the files of US government agencies and then expose it using Freedom of Information Act requests. Gaiman’s plans for Operation Cat were among the documents seized in the 1977 raid.

David and his wife Sheila also had a very good thing going after they founded a vitamin supply business, G & G Vitamins, in 1965. It became a lucrative concern as it supplied Saint Hill Manor, where some of Scientology’s processes call for huge intakes of vitamins. (Last year, Sheila Gaiman was featured in a Scientology flier which listed her as a “New Civilization Founder” in its fundraising for new buildings, indicating that she’s personally given at least $1 million.)

But David Gaiman’s career in the church did not go without a hitch. In the early 1980s, there was a purge of old Guardian’s Office executives as Scientology tried to distance itself from the disastrous prosecution of officials involved in Operation Snow White.

In 1983, David was expelled from the church and “declared” a “suppressive person” — Scientology’s form of excommunication. His declare is online, and it not only lists the usual complaints — that Gaiman supplanted Hubbard’s methods with his own, making him a “squirrel” (a heretic) — but also accused him of “a history of sexual misconduct…He has engaged in this while legally married in disregard of Church policy on this matter.” (He later managed to get back in the church’s good graces.)

For what it’s worth, in Neil’s novel the narrator’s father is seduced by the evil governess, Ursula Monkton, carrying on an affair while his wife spends evenings in town.

However, as Gaiman makes clear in the acknowledgments at the end of his book, the family in the novel is not his family in real life. But he also makes an interesting note about how his sister helped him mine the past…

The family in this book is not my own family, who have been gracious in letting me plunder the landscape of my own childhood and watched as I liberally reshaped those places into a story. I’m grateful to them all, especially to my youngest sister, Lizzy, who encouraged me and sent me long-forgotten memory-jogging photographs.

Lizzy Calcioli is an ardent Scientologist who has completed courses up to the present day, according to Scientology’s own publications.

In 2011, the UK’s Channel 4 featured Calcioli in a short film talking about the virtues of Scientology’s silent childbirth. She talks about the noise in other parts of a maternity ward, and how she didn’t want for that to be the “welcome” that her five children experienced.

 

 
However, Calcioli never explains why Scientologists seek a silent environment for childbirth: Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard believed that things said while a child is being born would be soaked up by the child’s “reactive mind” and could harm them for the rest of their lives. Hubbard’s book Dianetics is filled with examples of the way a sperm cell, egg, or fetus could absorb things that were said near them while they were “unconscious” and have them manifest as illnesses or neuroses decades later.

Neil Gaiman is also still close with his ex-wife Mary McGrath, whom he met when she was a Scientology student at Saint Hill Manor and lodging in a house owned by Neil’s father. In 1985, they were married and had their first child. (Gaiman and McGrath were divorced in 2008.)

To this day, Gaiman lives in Minnesota because he wanted to remain close to McGrath and their three children as they were growing up.

As we reported recently, Mary McGrath is still so involved in Scientology she’s become the executive director of the church’s “Ideal Org” in St. Paul. McGrath has given large donations to Scientology, and some have suggested that Neil is still, through McGrath, giving money to, and is involved in, the church.

But we haven’t seen anything to convince us that Gaiman is involved in the donations made by his ex-wife.

Mary McGrath recently turned up in a video put together by the St. Paul Ideal Org which encouraged Scientologists from Kansas City to come up to Minnesota for a fundraiser. She shows up with 2:33 on the counter, calling herself “the ED Day”…

 

 
Mary_Gaiman

 
As this evidence shows, Neil Gaiman has been surrounded by fanatical Scientologists all of his life, from his father, who spoke for Scientology as its UK mouthpiece, to his sisters, his mother, and his ex-wife.

But then in 2009, he took up with a very different sort of person altogether.

 

…….

 

Amanda Palmer rose to fame as one half of the Dresden Dolls and is known for her unconventional cabaret musical style and her unconventional life. Last year, she became the subject of debate when she used Kickstarter to raise money for a new album that brought in more than a $1 million in donations.

Some Internet posters wondered if any of that money would find its way into the coffers of Scientology, even though there’s no evidence that Palmer has ever had any involvement with the church. On May 23, 2012, Palmer answered those critics by posting this photograph…

 
AmandaSmurf

The text written on her reads, “Nope. Not planning to fund Scientology with my Kickstarter money. That would be dumb. P.S., Smurf-tits, AFP [Amanda Fucking Palmer]”

Despite that declarative statement, there are critics on the Internet who insist that Neil Gaiman is still involved in Scientology, and that Palmer secretly has her own connections to it. (The only evidence they offer of it is that one of Palmer’s uncles has a business which was contracted to help in the renovation of a Scientology building. But Scientology often contracts with outside firms for its building projects.)

We’ve still seen no convincing evidence that Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer have any involvement with Scientology. But we’re also just as convinced that Neil’s earlier involvement in the church is something that Palmer was curious about, and which inspired him to explore that past in his new novel. It’s a wonderful read, and we hope that it’s a sign that at some point Neil will open up even more about his background and about his family’s ongoing dedication to the world of L. Ron Hubbard.

 
——————–

Jett Travolta Still Donating to Scientology

Roger Friedman scores again, showing that John Travolta and Kelly Preston are still donating money in the name of their son, Jett, to Scientology causes. As Friedman points out, Scientology beliefs may have actually contributed to the boy’s death, but that hasn’t stopped his parents from funding church causes with money in his name.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 21, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Eivol Ekdal

    Wow – Tony has been busy!!!
    Tony – do you actually sleep?

  • Observer

    Wow. This put me on an emotional roller coaster–sympathy for the extremely difficult position NG is in, gladness that he’s out, renewed outrage at the “church’s” exploitation of a 7-year-old child … nobody should have to walk a knife’s edge to maintain a a relationship with family!

    L. Ron Hubbard was an evil old crank and David Miscavige is a greedy, psychotic little dictator. Their shambling abomination of a bloodsucking cult should have died long ago. Here’s hoping that 2013 continues to be a very unlucky number for it.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I know, expecting a child to act adult at that age. Jenna’s story comes to mind. Being raised with no other frame of reference and all that stress of responsibility to do the greatest good can’t be fun.

      • Poison Ivy

        Sound’s like Neil’s unconventional imagination saved him.
        Compare him as a writer and artist to LRH! No, don’t. Not nearly in the same league.
        Perhaps he has mixed feelings about Scientology because he appreciates how much its madness fueled his childhood imagination. For that, readers of modern Sci Fi can be grateful, at least.

      • richelieu jr

        EE, you have an awesome name. Love it!

    • pronoia

      The worst knife edge he is likely walking are with respect to his own children which are being raised by a scientologist mother. Any good parent would do all they could to avoid playing any part in a power struggle between mother and father. He has chosen to live nearby which means that he is an active parent. But he also HAS to keep his mouth shut about Scientology to protect his kids from being pressured by their mother and the cult to make a choice no child should ever have to make.

      • ParticleMom

        He is smart to do that. One day, they will want to leave and they will have their dad there for them. He has done a better job of walking that line than anyone else I have heard of. It even sounds like this book wouldn’t be offensive to Scientologists.

  • tetloj

    Great piece Tony, bringing a lot of aspects of this story together. As I was reading I was thinking it would be good to have a link to the transcript of 7y.o. Gaiman’s interview and it was already there.

  • aquaclara

    Gaiman’s book sounds interesting. After all that he has been exposed to, it’s not surprising that some of this seeps into his writing. Thanks for connecting all the pieces here. And thanks, too, for the links back-there is a lot to his family’s history.

    Speculation about a cause of death with someone associated with the COS-where have we heard this before?

    • FistOfXenu

      More than what caused the death what I want to know is could TC have helped if he’d been driving past?

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Fantasmical piece, Tony. Does your keyboard glow at night?

    Neil’s book is next on my lineup, right after Carl Hiasson’s Bad Monkey. Just wanted to say as an artist, you draw upon your experiences as well as childhood Impressions. As a retired artist, I find that most impressions were distorted or false with a sprinkle of truth mixed in. It is impossible not to add other people’s lives and stir the final mix with generous helpings of imagination. Neil had such an extaordinary journey through childhood I cant imagine how he could Not write stories.

    It appears to me now anyone who grew up as a child in scientology has a story of at least one suicide, one scrape with the law, and more than one monster under the bed.

  • media_lush

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is investigative journalism!

    I bet any reporters halfway through their own little bits and pieces on the cult feel the need of rewrite coming on.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Tony isn’t just In the Zone, he owns it … anxiously waiting for His book.

      • FistOfXenu

        We could rename the Bunker the Tone Zone.

        • stateofcircle

          Tone Zone: Serenity of Awesomeness

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          The Bunker Zone….

      • claybonnyman

        Oh dear. Must we now refer to Msr. Ortega as Him?

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Don’t you?

      • Zana

        Yes! I want to read TONY’s book!! Can’t wait to buy me a copy…whenever it comes out.

  • stateofcircle

    “We found several other passages in the book that reminded us of Scientology’s basic ideas, but it’s just as easy to point out that Gaiman is playing with some pretty standard tropes of fantasy and science fiction.”

    What can be said, really? People can be pretty fucking dumb.

    • Robert Eckert

      Scientology’s basic ideas ARE pretty standard tropes.

      • stateofcircle

        eeeeeexactly.

  • CommunicatorIC

    Late breaking Indie news from yesterday: LIVE! Milestone Two! Independent Scientology Membership Community! $30 per year!

    http://milestonetwo.org/

    Mark “Marty” Rathbun on Milestone Two
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/the-way-out-is-not-the-way-back-in/

    Mike Rinder on Milestone Two
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/the-way-out-is-not-the-way-back-in/#comment-269442

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      It took me three friggin’ decades to end the daily deluge of the scientology garbage dump.

      Please…Cease.

    • Sidney18511

      It is so nice to see the indies taking aim at each other!

      • Missionary Kid

        I don’t think it’s indie vs. indie. I think the Milestone Two is a Co$ front group, set up to look like it’s indie vs. Marty.

        It makes charges against Marty that are appropriate, in that he’s responsible for carrying out the evil of DM, but in turn, the group has all of the hallmarks of a Co$ organization: excessive titles and organization, bylaws, committees, True, that would be done by a well-funded organization, trying to set up a business, but, to me, they’re too much like Co$.

        CommunicatorIC, IMO, protests too much, and claims to be someone who simply has a hobby. Draw your own conclusion.

        • Poison Ivy

          Interesting timing with the Channel 4 doc.

          • Missionary Kid

            I think the whole Milestone Two operation has been in the works for some time. The Channel 4 documentary probably prodded them to try and steal some of Marty’s thunder.

            Do you know anyone on MT’s board?

            • grundoon
            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. This is a group that’s drunk deeply and for a long time of the Kool-Aid. They’ve got so much emotional investment in LRH, they can’t let it go.

              If they avoid fair gaming and the policy of disconnection, and avoid exploiting children and others, I don’t have a big problem with them, except, I think they’re deluded.

    • Missionary Kid

      Why the need to post the same identical thing two days in a row?

      The whole Milestone Two group sure sounds like it isn’t much more than a Co$ front group. The fact that they claim ownership of the term “Independent Scientologist,” that they already have a committee to declare people SP, and the fact that their site is so filled with $ci-speak, makes me ted towards the opinion that it’s really a Co$ front group, set up to divert attention away from Marty and pull people back into the rabbit hole that is $cientology.

      I disagree heartily with Marty, but it is interesting to occasionally to read what he has to say. At least he’s broken the chains of the Co$.

      • Poison Ivy

        It’s like those “pregnancy crisis” clinics where girls go to find out about birth control and abortion and then find themselves in a chapel being told they will go to hell unless they give their babies up for adoption.

        • Missionary Kid

          I suspect it’s a Co$ op.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I See Crazy People

            • Missionary Kid

              State of Circle convinced me that they’re just crazy wannabe LRH-without-the-Co$ people.

              You got it right.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hard core, long term fanatical Sea Org members, many of them. Those of us Ex Sea Org members understand the motto: Some Don’t Come Back.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. It seems like they have so much emotionally invested that they just can’t let go.

            • Robert Eckert

              They’re everywhere. They walk around just like ordinary people. They don’t even know they’re crazy.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I read it. I suppose it is inevitable. Do I read correctly that they are up to SIX memberships? That might make them the fastest growing religion on the planet. If they get six more today, and they continue doubling their number daily, the entire population of the planet will be Milestone Twos by the end of the summer. No mention of a T-Shirt though; I kept my money.

    • stateofcircle

      They’re creating COS-light, and it’s only a matter of time before members of this group start defecting because of the crazy rigid and restrictive policies and policing, just like they did with the COS. It is staggering how ignorant these people are.

      • Missionary Kid

        I actually think it’s an OSA operation. It sure seems structured like it. It’s an effort to create as many divisions in the indie movement as possible, IMO.

        If it isn’t, it’s structured so much like Co$, it’s revolting.

        • stateofcircle

          I don’t think so. It’s way too involved and would have taken a serious amount of forthought and planning. The board of directors or leaders or whatever the hell they’re calling themselves are all vocal defectors who have been expressing their hatred for The LolliCOB Guild for a few years at least. I know infiltrate, divide and conquer is a popular tactic, but I don’t think the cult would allow even under cover members to trash DM to the extent and amount of time these people have. I also don’t think the church would sanction the use of the tekk and equipment outside of their financial valence, nor the possibility of attaining new members, because if someone started “practicing” Scientology outside of the church at their own pace and at a very discounted rate, there’s zero chance they’d decide they want to pay waaay more money and be constantly pestered by joining the CoS. I could see MAYBE the fact that they’re anti-Marty and seemingly took followers away from him, but their message is way too anti-CoS and DM and besides taking a few things away from Marty, I really don’t see any gain for them from this. Even if there was one or a handful of OSA people, most of the members are really Indy’s and it’s very unlikely they’d go back to the church; they’d probably hate it more if OSA was found to be involved and just attack them harder. I don’t think there is much “intelligence” the church could really use by concocting a huge scheme like this. Maybe some OSA lacky will jump in it to see what’s going on or if they can spot any copyright violations, but orchestrating the whole thing from the beginning? Way too much work and luck and very little to gain. And too many things would have had to gone right in the past few years to get this group aligned with each other. Plus, it’s only $30, which screams no COS involvement.

          • Missionary Kid

            I bow to your superior knowledge.

            I’m not familiar with any of the players, but the whole timing and setup seemed weird.

            It seems, then, like this group drank much deeper of the LRH Kool-Aid than Marty. They’re much more wannabee LRH types than he.

            They also seem to share the feeling of a lot of Ex-$cions that Marty has a lot to atone for, and that he has conveniently gotten amnesia about a lot of it or hasn’t tried hard enough to undo the damage he wrought.

            I didn’t even consider the “evidence” or “intelligence” angle, but just the idea of messing up the indies for OSA to get involved.

            Probably, all the courses and information could be paid for with that $30.00 on a thumb drive.

            The tin can machine? If someone hooks them up to an analog Volt-Ohm Meter, which can be gotten for about $10-20, they can do all the auditing they want.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Hey MK! One can find the damnedest thing on the internet… just idly following links to links… you know how it goes. I came across OSA West’s (assuming that’s LA or in the Calif. area) phone number. 323.960.3500 Let’s call and ask the question directly? I wonder how far up the chain we could go asking just that one question? What a lark, heh? P.S. And I’m not using the sarcasm font either!
              Could you/would you ever call that number? I’ve thought about if I could ever do it myself and you know what? My gut just rolls over thinking of dialing those numbers. I did not realize how scared they make me – even at my distance.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think the other people on this blog have answered my questions. This is apparently an independent group, but they’ve been in for so long they can’t think any other way. If they were some of the people kicked out by DM and his allies, Marty & Mike, they’ve got no love for them.

              I’m not going to call that number, even if from a burn phone. I’d probably hit an operator, and they’d probably want me to ask for a person. Since I don’t know anyone, I wouldn’t know who to ask for. I’m staying away from it.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              That’s funny. Yes, I’m quite sure my finger would have a slight tremor, would dial the wrong number, and instead of getting the “front” desk, I’d get the President of the organization (I’ve got weird luck that way.)

              Note: just realized “front” desk is not a bad pun.

              My question wasn’t serious initially. I just wanted to tease you – like poking someone in the side with your elbow just as they are falling asleep (part of my culture – unfortunately). It seemed like you hadn’t posted for a while so I thought you were dosing in front of your monitor. (Not that I’d blame you. But it is hard not to start to think that this is a full time job before long.)

              Anyway, part way through the question I started to think that it was not funny, that the actual thought of it was getting daunting, and finally realized I couldn’t do it. So I wondered if you could actually make that call. I even thought of doing a survey with just that one question. I bet it would be interesting. (No sarcasm font, no snark, etc. either.)
              We hear about exes being “fair gamed” and being the recipient of OSA’s nefarious plots for years and I empathize, I sympathize, I get outraged, I get mad… but I just realized that as a never-in, I can never and will never have a vivid imagination enough to begin to get even a tiny inkling of what people here and elsewhere have and are going through. Jeez! I can’t even stomach the thought of calling a stupid phone number!

          • DeElizabethan

            One can also get a free 6 month membership at the cult. Irrelevant!

            IMO I feel that any indie is likely to get back involved with conditions being right for him/her. Until they actually see the light and truth of the whole subject they to me are promoting the cult. If you really know how the cult can deceive and lie through various methods, and are out of the bubble, you are safer from them. However, they need money and manpower very badly now and will do whatever to the weakest ones, to get them and indies are prime material to come back. They are not getting new people to speak of, so what makes sense?

            • ParticleMom

              I’m so glad you are out of the bubble and safe!

          • grundoon

            +1 LolliCOB Guild!

  • Sokramor

    Fascinating article. I’ve been wondering about Gaiman’s background for a while, and it’s great to read a well-founded account instead of speculation.

    OT, but I maybe I should take a break from Sci-watching for a while… I had trapped-in-Sci nightmares last night and I have never been in…

    • q-bird

      gosh I know exactly what you mean here Sokramor… taking breaks are good & fine, imho.

      This subject matter really does give a person a great deal to digest. Touching upon it, even if ever so lightly, can indeed be extremely disturbing at times. I feel nothing but gratitude that I have only ‘experienced’ Club-tard’s droppings here at the Underground Bunker.

      Here there is a measure of safety… in the light of reason & fact. In good company, the nightmares disappear, and we continue… are you wide awake now & good to go? ;-)

      • Sokramor

        Better late than never… I’m back, and thank you for your response!

  • media_lush

    The one bit that screams at me is this:

    “Police-constable Colin Daffiest, the coroner’s officer, said Mr. Scheepers left two letters, saying he was going to take his own life and that this had nothing to do with scientology or being a member of the group.”

    …. whatever else this conjures up in my minds eye the one thing it doesn’t is that it it’s his own words – quite the opposite in fact. I have great sense of foreboding as to what the real story might be

    • 1subgenius

      Like Scientology drove him nuts, took all his money and he killed himself?

    • FistOfXenu

      Please tell me his name isn’t really Daffiest. Those 2 letters are.

    • 1subgenius

      Let’s see: the suicide was a Scientologist, staying with the Gaimans who boarded Scientologists doing Scientology training at near-by Scientology center St. Hill, but it had nothing to do with Scientology.
      And OJ will yet find the real killers.

      • Missionary Kid

        {Oh, but he’s been searching endlessly for the killer. He even has tried to use fellow inmates for information} {}=sarcasm indicator.

  • Kevin Tighe

    I lodged with the Gaiman’s in 1979. As I recall Neil was made up like a punk rocker which I found odd for someone who had gone through OT III. Great memories of breakfast with the Gaiman family each morning.

    • Robert Eckert

      And you didn’t feel any urge to gamble all your money away and suck on a carbon monoxide hose?

      • Kevin Tighe

        Not at that time. That would come later.

        • aquaclara

          Love the connections and first-person accounts, like yours, that emerge here.
          And now you have left us with a difficult cliff hanger, “….that would come later.”
          Can I assume that you’re now past the dark parts (since you’re here)? Do tell.

          • Kevin Tighe

            I was being tongue-in-cheek. To be honest my time at St. Hill was for the most part quite pleasant. It was kind of neat working inside the manor. At that time It was the headquarters of the GO WW. I was there to assist in putting together a time track of all attacks on Scientology since 1950 to be used in a eval. In fact I lugged it back to the States in a suitcase. It was quite heavy.

        • Joyce McIntyre

          Are you Kevin Tighe from Emergency tv show?

    • richelieu jr

      OTIII, huh? Ia that as far as he got (a lot of folks do throw up their hands about then…)

      • Kevin Tighe

        I wouldn’t know but he seems to have done quite well with his life.

  • Sunny Sands

    Young Neil was denied entry to a prep school because of his family’s affiliation with scientology. He dealt with all the crazy scientology stuff, then was denied entry to a normal situation because of his background with crazy. Sad.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Lizzy Calcioli’s son is Alessandro Calciol, who’s fiance, Louisa Hodkin, sued to get married in England at a scientology organization’s “chapel”.

    “Scientologist loses High Court bid to get married in ‘church’ chapel as judge rules it is NOT a place of worship”

    http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,117163

    I remember it was being reconsidered, but was this ruling overturned? Here’s a picture of the couple. One thing you can say about scientology families….never boring.
    http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/scientology-case-to-be-reconsidered

    [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2ujqezb.jpg[/IMG]

    • sugarplumfairy

      I don’t know if it was overturned, but I know I lovvvvve that judge who said a scientology chapel is not a place of worship.. Maybe they can rent out their credit union, or better yet, one of those scary quick cash loan places for a few hours..

    • Lilaeth

      Louisa Hodkin’s case will be heard by the Supreme Court on 18 July. She (and the $cientology London Congregation) are being represented by Paul Hewitt of Withers LLP. Don’t know if any legal eagles on here know anything about them? The case itself is almost a moot point, as you can marry in lots of different places in the UK nowadays – I smell a publicity stunt at work.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        thanks. I didn’t understand what the whoop this was all about.

      • stateofcircle

        I’m confused…can you only get married in a place of worship in the UK? Or do they not recognize a Sciloon “minister” as someone who could officiate the marriage? I mean, the could just go to town hall and get legally married then have the ceremony and stuff at the church…I’m guessing it’s a matter of principle though.

        • Robert Eckert

          “do they not recognize a Sciloon “minister” as someone who could officiate the marriage?” This

        • Marjorie73

          Places have to be reigistered in order for marriages to take place there, and the ceremony can be performed by priests (of various denominations) or by a Registrar.

          Marriages can only take place in certain places, which have to be licenced – however,
          One part of the law about where marriages can take place is:

          “-any other religious building provided that the person marrying the couple is registered by the Registrar General”

          So it would be possible for the ‘church’ to apply for a licence, but they were seeking to say they didn’t need one,as the building was already covered by the ‘religious building’ provision.

  • Xique

    NG went from ED Day to AFP! Damn Neil!
    No more Yo Baby Kansas City Video for me, too painful to listen to even a little of it.
    Very interesting post today, Tony.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Regarding John Travolta link…I hope Deborah Lin (James Gandolfini’s wife) reads this, as well as links to Reaching for the Tipping Point. I was quite disturbed to read headlines about Travolta stealing headlines for himself as the Hero rushing in to save the family. Wonder if this was his publicist’s idea of an attempt to save Travolta’s reputation, or even some sinister, midget sized dictator perched upon some Hole? Promoting Narconon now wasn’t enough of a major footbullet?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

      Travolta worked with Gandolfini a number of times, so it’s not like it’s totally random. Just over-publicized.

      • Poison Ivy

        I wonder if Travolta tried to get him in to CO$ via Narconon?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

          Oh probably, if Gandolfini was having problems with drugs or alcohol, which he seems to have had at points in his career.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Travolta shilling for Narconon in 2013 means he is on a hero mission .. to save the Profits of Narconon. If he’s been put on a mission, that means he is being handled. If he is being handled, than Any schmoozing with celebs now is suspect.

            John Travolta should be rushing to the side of the mothers and fathers and families of those who died because of Narconon. And he should Vow to stay until every Narconon is shut down. He should be donating and giving support to Their Narconon Hell because that kind of nightmare does not come cheap. Any and every celeb or wealthy widow should Just Say No To Travolta and send him packing to Georgia or Oklahoma.

    • FistOfXenu

      Was he wearing a volunteer vulture t-shirt?

    • richelieu jr

      Another mortality for $cilon Brand ‘Touch Assists’!

  • deanblair

    I want to say Tony that your incredible journalistic acumen amazes me. I have followed your stories since the time when you were the editor at the Village Voice and you have gotten better as time goes by. In my opinion, you are the FIRST journalist who has really duplicated the mind set of the Cult of Scientology.

    I look forward to reading the novel by Neil Gaiman and I want to thank you for being here and communicating all of this valuable information about the cult of Scientology.

  • FLUNK_101

    “It’s really nothing special, knowing how things work. And you really do have to give it all up if you want to play.”

    In other words, you have to “not know,” in order to have a “game.”
    Clams believe that they are all-knowing “thetans,” and that “life is just a game.”
    An all-knowing thetan can create a game. In Scientology, they are called “game makers.”
    But an all-knowing (or all-powerful) being could never be a “player” in a game. That wouldn’t be fair.

    “you really do have to give it all up if you want to play.”

    This is an old idea, of a god becoming mortal. It seems that certain ideas resonate as religious beliefs. I read about that in a book called “Religion Explained – The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought,” by Pascal Boyer.
    He starts out with examples of religious thought:

    “Villagers organize a ceremony to tell a goddess she is not wanted in their anymore. She failed to protect them from epidemics, so they decided to ‘drop’ her and find a more efficient replacement.”

    “Members of a cult on an island decide to slaughter all their livestock and burn their crops. All these will be useless now, they say, because a ship full of goods and money will reach their shores very shortly in recognition of their good deeds.”

    or

    “My friends are told to go to church or some other quiet place and talk to an invisible person who is everywhere in the world. That invisible listener already knows what they will say, because He knows everything.”

    When I read the book, I kept thinking about Scientology, and I was cracking up!

    “The explanation for religious beliefs and behaviors is to be found in the way all human minds work. I really mean all human minds, not just the minds of religious people or of some of them.”

    LOL!

    • Poison Ivy

      There is a book called “The God Gene” that examines this as well.

      • FLUNK_101

        Not exactly. “The God Gene” says there is a specific gene responsible for spiritual belief. The book was not well received in the scientific community.
        It’s like saying there’s a single gene responsible for our appreciation of music. It’s not that simple.There are genes which create the audio cortex in the brain, but our appreciation of music would better be described as an “emergent” quality, or an “epiphenomenon.”

        • Poison Ivy

          Would tend to agree with you here, Flunk.

          • FLUNK_101

            I’m just the opposite! It the lyrics I can ‘t remember, even if I dream lyrics that seem to go on forever, with the cleverest rhymes … when I wake up, I can only remember the first two lines, and then I wonder if it was all an illusion.
            The thing about music is that it’s non-verbal. So is the music in your dreams, as well as all the imagery. So when you have those dreams, your mind is engaging in some serious non-verbal creativity!

            Freud emphasized that much of mental life is unconscious; it becomes conscious only as words and images.

            With some guitar students, they may go through the motions in a mechanical way … I might have them learn to sing along with what they ‘re playing, to help them get it in their soul.

            The voice is just another pathway. As is breathing, in meditation. It’s a pathway to the subconscious. As are dreams.

            I would love to be your music teacher. But , in lieu of that, I would say, just close your eyes and sing. Or just vocalize. Just make sounds! Try to express those feelings which are hard to put into words. And then bring these feelings to the table with whatever chops you have … good music can be created by musicians of any level!

        • Robert Eckert

          There isn’t a single gene responsible for height, or for weight, and in fact even eye color which is the stereotypical example turns out to be a more complex interaction of genes than we are usually taught. I too get annoyed with such oversimplifications: in particular, on the political boards you are likely to run into the old farce about the researcher who claimed to have discovered the “gay gene” when of course it was never anywhere near that simple.

        • richelieu jr

          They did however finally find the gene responsible for timidity..

          It had been hiding behind the other genes.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Jeepers Tony! You and Roger Friedman really can connect the dots! (Thanks for giving Roger a thanks!)

    I liked Roger’s phrase “Xenu businesses”.

    Scientology’s “upper levels” OT 3, 4, 5 ,6 and 7 “handle” the big enchilada “engram”, the big “4th Dynamic Engram” and it’s Xenu who is the all time galactic bad guy who caused this mega bad engram, for which the Scientology Hubbard “upper levels” seek to untraumatize us from!

    The simple truth of what Scientology is, is just on the tips of you greater more skilled writers and journalists’ tongues!

    Great work, for so many years! Thankyou very much Tony!

  • Vistaril

    I can’t get that rutube vid of Lizzy Calcioli to fire up but, for those interested, I found the clip here . . .

    http://www.4thought.tv/themes/how-relevant-is-scientology-to-twenty-first-century-britain/lizzy-calcioli

    . . . obviously with Channel 4 being so generous there’s no reason why an archivist would want to mine their cache or otherwise snag a copy. Or is there?

  • stanrogers

    “Blancmange of belief” is going into my permanent collection.

  • ze moo

    “but it’s just as easy to point out that
    Gaiman is playing with some pretty standard tropes of fantasy and
    science fiction.”

    Lroon ‘borrowed’ all the plot devices in his writings from other authors. While this happens in all genres of writing, it is common in sci-fi. The only thing new in clamatology is the all-encompassing nature of the cult. Multi-level marketing religious scams were and still are present in the US.

    Why would anyone give money to Jett Travolta foundation, knowing it was going to CO$ in the end? I smell a tax dodge…..

  • SciWatcher

    All of those themes–immortal beings as old as the universe; powerful beings creating the physical universe and that causing trouble; reincarnation and forgetting past lives–all have literary and religious antecedents far older than scientology. I’m sure there are many others, but these are the examples that spring immediately to mind: In classical mythology, when souls went to the underworld they were required to drink from the river Lethe to forget their earthly life–something Virgil says they must do before they can be reincarnated. William Blake’s Prophetic works describe how Urizen creates the material world, falls from the spiritual world, and then is trapped by Los in the material world.

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      Yes, that’s what I thought as well. While there may be some Scientology influence on Neil’s work, since that’s what he grew up in, I’m actually not seeing it at all in these excerpts. I’m seeing heavy influence from other fantasy authors (as always with Gaiman’s work) and old, old myths.

  • N. Graham

    I personally would like to see a story where Coraline meets up with some new friends who take her to do a personality test to find out why she’s not really happy. While there, Coraline makes even more new friends who introduce her to books and tech that are simply amazing! She is so excited she runs home to tell her parents who act very non-supportive. When she tells her new friends about this, they explain to her about suppressive people and how she must disconnect from them. The fun just keeps on growing from there!

  • Mary_McConnell

    I believe that Neil is truthful about not being a scientologist. I think he lucked out when he met Amanda!

    BTW, the film rights to the book were purchased in March and a director has been chosen:

    Neil Gaiman’s Next Book Isn’t Out Yet, But A Movie Version is Already In the Works
    by Rebecca Pahle | 4:00 pm, March 3rd, 2013

    “Focus Features and Playtone, the latter of which is also adapting Neil Gaiman‘s American Gods into a series for HBO, have picked up the rights to The Ocean at the End of the Lane, which comes out in book format on June 18, 2013. The film will be directed by Joe Wright, whose previous credits include Pride & Prejudice, Atonement, and Anna Karenina.”
    http://www.themarysue.com/neil-gaiman-the-ocean-at-the-end-of-the-lane-movie/

  • Sherbet

    Thanks, Tony, for today’s virtual goldmine. Lots to read and lots of Fun Facts to pick out and savor. You’ve outdone yourself, Mr. O.

  • 0tessa

    Great work, Tony!
    Interesting to see the old spymaster Jane Kember. She could tell some tales …

  • ze moo
    • Poison Ivy

      He he he.

      • ze moo

        And KA is still fat.

        • Missionary Kid

          There’s cure for fat. Willful stupidity is something else…

        • Poison Ivy

          If you haven’t visited Tori Magoo’s YouTube talk about why OT’s get so fat, you really should do so – it’s hilarious!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      then July should be Julicious!

      • aquaclara

        Why can I only upvote this idea once???? Julicious – - yeah!

  • Real Shellback

    I have more than a little respect for Neil Gaiman, I think he first thing I read by him was “Good Omens”and that would have been back in the 1990s. He’s got a clear niche in what I would call Gothic romance. While I have a bit of respect, a lot of my peers adore him.

    One of the things I respect about him thought is that he keeps above all of the controversy regarding Scientology. The strongest thing I’ve ever heard him say about was “hey, why can’t people just leave Scientology alone” or something to that effect.

    As for borrowing Scientology concepts in his writings, I think it’s very hard to draw a a line about such things. Hubbard didn’t independently come up with the concept that we are all little gods who’ve been playing a game and forgot what we are. Hubbard just borrowed that and repackaged it with a Science Fiction spin.

    Gaiman’s just story telling so far as I can see. If there are Scientology concepts there, he does not seem to be using those elements to proselytize the moment, rather he’s just using elements of fiction just like Hubbard did.

    The difference is; Hubbard called them fact.

  • ze moo

    The Portland CO$ spends over 6000 on security of the grand opening of the Idle mOrg.

    http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2013/06/20/how-much-did-scientologists-pay-portland-cops-for-security

    • Missionary Kid

      That’s just for the police. I believe there was also a lot of private security, too.

      • ze moo

        There were several guys following Bunker around, you can bet that local anons were being watched too. The ‘mother’ church in LA on LRon Hubbtard ave must spend 10k in just police rentals every time they have a ‘graduation’ ceremony.

        • Missionary Kid

          There’s also the cost of shipping OSA operatives around and their expenses in Portland. Also, there was all the cost of rental equipment, building a set, etc.

          What do you think they spent on the opening? $50K, $100K? I’m including the cost of DM’s transportation, his retinue, staging, permits, and all the other crap.

          • Artoo45

            Not to mention what they spent on photoshop (covers, head,runs and hides).

          • ze moo

            I would think that once you add in all the travel expenses for DM and the whole crowd, 100k is not out of line. That’s 3 or 4 years of the mOrgs operating expenses.

            • Missionary Kid

              “That’s 3 or 4 years of the mOrgs operating expenses.” Or a lifetime of Sea Org member’s pay.

            • Poison Ivy

              This isn’t my area of expertise, but I do know production budgets, and $100,000 goes really fast when mounting an operation like this. I think $100,000 is a lowball estimate.

          • aquaclara

            All the rented trees…thousands of balloons, confetti. Oh, wait, that was just a couple dozen balloons. SHOOPING IS FREE!

    • John P.

      Interesting that among the police involved were members of the bomb squad. Paranoid much?

      • ze moo

        They specially sought bomb squad cops and paid extra for the privilege. Paranoid very….

        • Robert Eckert

          There was an incident years ago when a disgruntled customer (bitter defrocked apostate?) threatened to bomb the Portland Org.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            and there have been many incidences where someone from the organization phoned in false bomb threats to harrass and silence critics and protestors.

  • 0tessa

    The way Gaiman has woven these Scientology concepts into his story could also be a ‘subliminal’ way to disseminate those ideas.

    • pronoia

      Or to expose them.

      • Poison Ivy

        Or neither. A writer’s (or any real artist’s) subconscious makes soup out of every event and emotion of his or her life. That’s just how it works – even for bad writers like LRH. You can’t hide the truth; it will find its way out through the nooks and crannies between the lines. I look forward to reading this because it seems per Tony’s analysis anyway as part of his method of sorting through this unique and both troubled and magical childhood. It goes to the top of my list and Sci-Fi Fantasy is not my favorite genre.

        When you do literary criticism, you look at a writer’s complete oeuvre and lay out the patterns, the recurring themes, and look for the arc of self-discovery. I repeat, a writer doesn’t need to even try to put any of that stuff in there. Or even know that it’s in there. It will simply emerge if you look closely enough. The better the writer, the more you can discover.

        • pronoia

          I agree totally. Which is why one cannot try to consciously suppress or hide something and still remain a real writer. If Gaiman really tried to block such a huge part of what was once his life, he would not be able to write with such sensitivity and nuance, rather, like LRH would get stuck on one or two very dull notes.

          • Poison Ivy

            But even LRH reveals WAYYYY too much of himself in his writing. Dianutty case in point. Yeeeeesh, he gives us TMI on a regular basis.

    • sugarplumfairy

      lrh and co$ didn’t invent reincarnation.. Reincarnation, universal intelligence, superconscious elder masters (minus the aliens and the space opera) is a fairly common belief.. I have no problem with anyone’s beliefs.. It’s the brainwashing, slave-producing tech, the abuse, the theft, the lies, the retribution, the disconnection and all that other sacred evil scientology crap that freaks me out..

      • DeElizabethan

        Well said Sugar and I feel the same, thanks.

  • Poison Ivy

    “Left two letters, saying he was going to take his own life and that this had nothing to do with scientology or being a member of the group. His flight back to South Africa had been cancelled.”

    Man…this stinks of GO/OSA techniques big time. I have a feeling what probably happened to this poor man’s “gambling money.”

    GREAT reporting Tony!

  • q-bird

    Thank you for this excellent article today Tony~san. I am still clicking on all the links, going here and there, reading away and was delighted to find this, something I’d missed from last year: July 16, 2013 – on Radio Paul’s Radio Rant ~ http://www.youtube.com/embed/hTJJjAA818E
    For any other newbie’s out there, this is a good overview interview.
    As always, good to hear your voice. :-)
    Oh look! Moar links to peruse…. onward!

  • MarionDee

    “She
    waved at the house and the sky and the impossible full moon and the skeins and
    shawls and clusters of bright stars.” That is beautifully written; very childlike. L.R.H. could never have written anything that expressive, not on his best day in a billion years. Do the clarity, simplicity and elegance of his writing (along with his respect for the reader’s intelligence) suggest that Neil G. is not a Scientologist? I say yes.

    • FistOfXenu

      I’d suggest a contest to see who could make that sentence sound most like Humbug’s twisted prose but I don’t have the heart. It would make kittens die. That sentence by itself guarantees I’m buying the book.

      • Sherbet

        She waved at the house and the, you know, guh-LAX-y and so on and so forth.

        • Poison Ivy

          PERFECT Sherbert!

          • Sherbet

            You think you’re the only writer on this board? Ha! I’m inspired by the ghost of lrh.

            • sharon brown

              That wasn’t a line from Dianutty ? Wow , I Totally thought that was lrh!

            • Poison Ivy

              Terrific! I think you should do a parody version of Dianutty in his voice!!

            • Sherbet

              Maybe I should turn it into a one-woman show, sort of like Hal Holbrook’s “Mark Twain Tonight!” I could be famous.

            • Poison Ivy

              Could you don a redheaded wig, wear false (rotted) teeth, and maybe some wax lips, and play him? It would make a damn great touring show!

            • Sherbet

              Heck, how do you know I don’t already look like that? Hand me a Kool, willya?

            • FistOfXenu

              Fer crying out loud! You forgot the festering boil on the forehead! Why does everybody forget the festering boil on the forehead?

            • Sherbet

              Why, indeed? Some of us are trying to forget it and can’t.

            • John P.

              You guys could be describing the costume of some psychotic axe-murdering clown in a circus-based horror flick.

            • Missionary Kid

              Isn’t that LRH?

            • FistOfXenu

              John P, I think you’ve just worked out the missing part of the puzzle of what Humbug did in his youth. But I didn’t know there was a movie about it.

            • Sherbet

              Omit the axe, substitute “space opera” for “circus,” and you’ve pretty much nailed lrh’s persona, John P.

            • Captain Howdy

              L Ron Hubbard as Captain Spaulding..Observer?

            • richelieu jr

              Hubbard may have been called Schnorrer, but he was never a real African explorer!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Wonder how many he had on his butt? Wow.. Wish I hadn’t thought that..

            • FistOfXenu

              We all do, SPF. Too late.

            • Sherbet

              What Fist said. Blech.

            • tetloj

              Really, SPF!

            • sugarplumfairy

              sorry……

            • Poison Ivy

              Festering boil! Got any photos?

            • FistOfXenu

              Try these, they’ve been shown before but who could get tired of seeing LRH trying to grow another eye on a stalk with his OT powerz?

            • richelieu jr

              Too scary for kids…

            • Robert Eckert

              It has been pointed out that Hal Holbrook has played Mark Twain for considerably longer than Samuel Clemens did.

            • Sherbet

              Ha! I never heard that, Robert. Funny and strange.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          The “and so forth” totally nails it!

          Rock on.

        • Captain Howdy

          That’s a bingo!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Your gems are delicious and always worth the wait.

          [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/rh3hqb.jpg[/IMG]

          • Sherbet

            Thank you, TheHole. (You’re not saying I’m really a big drip, though, are you?)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              hah. If it’s chocolate, it’s a little drip of heaven.

      • stateofcircle

        “After Lazarus took his fist to her womb in a swift strike for the ages, she lay on the floor saying, “Oh my, dear Lazarus, I have felt a kick from baby George that was as swift as your blow!”. She gazed upon the stars and the moon – which incidentally are where engrams flock when they have been abberated so – and, despite her unfortunate dispositioness of being a woman and therefore unable to have a cogent thought, began to scheme a way in which to absolve herself from the being inside her womb.”

        • pronoia

          Flunk! Even that impossibly convoluted sentence has too much nuance or rhythm (or something) to be akin to anything LRH could possibly write. It’s the use of words like unfortunate and absolve….

          In other words, it is not all that easy for a regular person to mock up someone as depraved as LRH!

          • stateofcircle

            I used ‘absolve’ because it’s not quite the correct usage of it, but you’re right, I definitely fail. It’s really difficult to mirror his style! I pride myself on my range and use of vocabulary in my writing, but I’m at a total loss with him.

            • Observer

              That isn’t a bad thing.

        • FistOfXenu

          I said contest, not seance! You and Sherbet, it’s creepy how you guys are in his head. And if the official reports are true he doesn’t even have a head to get in any more.

          • Sherbet

            You threw down the gauntlet, FOX, and stateofcircle and I rose to the challenge.

            • FistOfXenu

              You sure did. Straight up and vertical and 50 ft behind your heads.

            • FistOfXenu

              Oh yeah. Can I have my gauntlet back? Those things aren’t cheap!

            • Sherbet

              I should say finders keepers, but what’s a Fist without a gauntlet.

            • FistOfXenu

              Naked as a jay bird.

            • Sherbet

              Don’t drop any hot coffee. Oh, you meant your fist… ;-)

            • FistOfXenu

              Where the hell do you where your gauntlet?

            • Sherbet

              I wasn’t sure if the fist or the Fist was naked as a jay bird.

            • FistOfXenu

              Lol. I guess it depends on when you look. ;)

            • FistOfXenu

              Just the thought of that has made me clench in unpleasant ways.

        • tetloj

          outstanding

    • Poison Ivy

      LRH did not have any real degree of self-knowledge (he had enough of it to write the Affirmations, but the Affirmations were in essence an attempt to hypnotize himself into being an image of himself that he wanted to portray.). He could never have written anything as generally insightful and empathetic as Gaiman’s work. Ever, ever, ever (not to mention not having the poetry or craft of Gaiman.)

      If Hubbard were alive, he’d be Fair Gaming Gaiman just because he’s such a superior writer.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Have you read his Blueberry Girl? It’s great..

        • Poison Ivy

          No – it goes on the list!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Some people can draw beautiful images with words.
      I have never read Neil Gaiman before, but that sentence alone draws me right in.

  • stateofcircle

    I think that the most important thing to understand in all of this is that, regardless of his current relationship with Scientology, it provided the framework of his childhood. You and I may have been told to eat our vegetables or we’ll get sick when Neil was told to confess all of his negative thoughts or he’d get sick. We may have been told never to lie because it’s wrong or God was watching over us. Neil was told it’s OK to lie in certain circumstances. We may have played outside for hours in a day, biking around our neighborhoods, exploring the woods, making friends, or playing games. Neil was made to believe playing was ridiculous, making friends was only OK if they were Scientologists, and any desire he had to do those things was wrong. We may have been allowed to express ourselves various ways, go through “phases” and say or do silly things. Neil was taught that any thought or feeling or desire he had that was not aligned with the beliefs of Scientology was attributable to and ‘engram’, almost like a charged particle of sorts, that could and should be removed through the processes of Scientology, which, coincidentally, was the only true and right way to live.

    My point is, our lives and childhoods shape who we are and what we do. As a writer, it is nearly impossible not to draw on those experiences and have our work shaped by them. So whether he loves or hates Scientology, and whether he is a part of it or not, it will always be present in his work in one form or another. And to me, that makes it all the more interesting.

    • Guest

      sry couldn’t resist even though i am wayyy late 2 da party and off topic ….”We may have played outside for hours in a day, biking around our
      neighborhoods, exploring the woods, making friends, or playing games”…..u grew up awhile ago didn’t u? kids arent allowed to do these things now lol.

  • Sherbet

    Even in 1968, the press didn’t capitalize “scientology,” and it referred to it as a “cult.”

  • pronoia

    Just followed a twitter link to our beloved Kate Bornstein’s blog (very hopeful happy news btw!) and happened to see this posted on the front page by Amanda Absolutely-Fucking Palmer!

    “I read A Queer and Pleasant Danger over four nights in a bathtub and bed and was totally transported to Kate Bornstein’s world. Kate boldly lets us look under the hood of her own transformations as Jew, Scientologist, boy, girl, Buddhist and parent, leaving us with a richer understanding of the true identity underneath: human. A Queer and Pleasant Danger is a page turner, making sweet love to the paradoxes we all face.”

  • AnonymousePerson

    There’s a lot more with G&G Foods – they’re currently (last number of years) involved in some odd financial scheme with the Co$ involving loans to both organizations and members, remeniscent of the “postulate check” scam. They’re sort of like “postulate loans”.

    Look on WWP for the leaked b’ham docs and search for G&G.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Sooooooo.. you’re down and out and you decide to end it all.. you’re writing a note.. the last one you I’ll ever write, in this lifetime anyway.. and the most vital words you can think of to leave to your loved ones is ” my death has nothing to do with scientology..” yaaaahhhh..

    And Wow!! Tony!! Great read today.. Thank you!

    • ParticleMom

      Especially when you are not, and have never been a scientologist.

      • Poison Ivy

        You know, Jodi Arias should’ve thought of that. Leaving a note at her boyfriend’s house next to the body that said, “No matter how this looks, I killed myself. Jodi didn’t do it.” Great self-defense strategy.

        • sugarplumfairy

          lol..

        • Robert Eckert

          “No matter how this looks, I killed myself. Jodi didn’t do it, and it has nothing to do with Scientology.”

          • Poison Ivy

            Even better!

        • richelieu jr

          If the $cilons had really written the note, it would have been full of weird grammar, misspellings and finished with

          ‘Scientology was in no way involved nor was my crushing disappointment in not being able to serve great motorcyclist, Athlete, man-about-town, and Mother-Theresa-like humanitarian, friend and idol of movie stars, a giant among men, David Miscavige (who was not only not involved, but toiled night and day to make my life better. Forgive me David (if anyone can, it is is you!)

      • aquaclara

        ok, I am laughing at your so very right comment. Even though it’s rude to laugh over something as awful as this.

    • sharon brown

      You read my mind ! But I took a poll and 90% of people would assure their loved ones that Scientology wasn’t involved in their murder, oops, I meant ” suicide “. Sounds like their MO to me though.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Incredible read this is!
    Now I am looking forward to digging into Gaiman’s book.

    • Sherbet

      I just put a Hold on it at the library.

      • FLUNK_101

        The scientology influence is a let-down for me … the book does sound dreamy, and I love the “oceans,” but when it leads into something that reminds me of scientology, the ennui becomes unbearable.

        • Sherbet

          I enjoy dark stories. I’m a nice, honest, polite, good citizen of a lady…but that’s my creepy underbelly. The scn nuances will probably go way over my head, anyway.

      • ParticleMom

        Good call, I’m going to do the same. I finally got Jenna’s book and I put in a hold as soon as it came out. I guess I shouldn’t hold my breath.

  • Captain Howdy

    Ewwww..that photo of Amanda “even when I fart it’s art” Palmer, once again makes me want to throw lye in my eyes.

    • Spackle Motion

      The Dresden Dolls’ music is pedantic and awful. The only thing I’ve heard Palmer do that was interesting was her covering some songs with a ukulele. She can carry a tune, but her composing skills are severely lacking.

      • Captain Howdy

        Amanda is an uber AW like Courtney without the train wreck hilarity. Pretentious all day everyday. And I have met them both.

        • Spackle Motion

          Courtney at least had (past tense because I haven’t seen anything from her worthy of being called talented) a small amount of performance and lyric writing talent.

          Courtney was passable in the movies she made (when she cleaned herself up) and her lyrics were interesting. I never found Hole to be very good, but many people did.

          The Dresden Dolls and AFP, on the other hand, are simply not listenable and her fans seem to be mostly teenage boys that only want to see her breasts. The musicality of the songs is poor because they consist of a simple pattern and they do not modulate.

          • Robert Eckert

            I remember listening to Courtney Love on the radio singing the lyrics “I know you good… I know you good… I know you real good” and I just had to shriek at the radio, “I know you WELL! I know you WELL! I know you REALLY well!”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hehe, I used to really like Hole.

            • Captain Howdy

              “Live Through This” is a great album…. because Kurt wrote most of the songs HAH!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, that is a great one.

            • Poison Ivy

              Truly? Figures.

            • Captain Howdy

              Listen the album before it and everything after it. She supposedly offered Billy Corgan 20 million to write the follow up “Celebrity Skin” and he quit half way through and went into hiding.

            • Poison Ivy

              You are a musical detective, Capt!

            • richelieu jr

              Ha! Billy Corgon in hiding? Now THAT makes me laugh!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I could go sooo many way with this…

            • Captain Howdy

              Of course, because everybody knows that rock’n’roll and proper english go hand in hand.

        • ThetaBara

          OMG thank you! I can’t stand her! Soooo famewhorey. Wants everything for free (and gets it far too often). Yuck-o.

        • Bella Legosi

          Courtney danced at a club in downtown Portland (not far from the Idle mOrg) named “Mary’s Club”. She was reportedly 13 when she started there. I believe this story because I babysat for a stripper who also danced at that club (around the time Courtney went to Guam) when she was 13…………and did mother/daughter shows on stage.

          I shudder when I past this “historical” building. It is still in operation and for it being one of the oldest topless clubs in the city of Portland, it really still looks like a dive bar you would catch crabs in if you ever sat down.

          • Captain Howdy

            I met her in the mid 80′s when she was living in Frisco. She was an acquaintance of my wife. We saw her on the Haight St. bus and my wife asked her for the $37.00 she owed her and Courtney said she didn’t have it, but she was going to England to make a movie, which she did, called “Straight To Hell”. The movie sucked but it’s worth watching just to see Dennis Hopper, Joe Strummer, The Pogues, Elvis Costello, Grace Jones and pre-surgery Courtney in the same movie.

            • Sherbet

              That story is worth $37. Uploading it to you right now, Howdy. When are you going to write that book??

            • Captain Howdy

              After Courtney became rich and infamous, and my wife saw her on TV, she would yell “That bitch owes me thirty seven dollars!”

            • Sherbet

              Hahaha! She should have sent the money after she did so well in “The People vs. Larry Flynt.” She was darn good in that.

            • stateofcircle

              I thought Courtney grew up wealthy, her parents were rich from what I understand. A friend of hers or someone has a house in Rhinebeck, NY and I’ve run into her when I went up there a few times. She was actually pretty nice and funny. It’s too bad she hasn’t done more acting…in my opinion at least. I’d love to hear more stories, Cap!

            • Captain Howdy

              Her mom is a therapist/author who lives in Oregon. Actually my wife said that Courtney is very intelligent and loved reading James Joyce.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Carroll

            • richelieu jr

              Sorry, I would eat my own excrement if Courtney ever did anything more than carry a copy of Finnegan’s Wake around (Ulysses would have been to heavy)

            • Bella Legosi

              I watched “Sid and Nancy” a few years ago and noticed that she was in that movie as well. I had heard from a friend that she desperately wanted the part of Nancy and practically stalked the director for the part, so he gave her a really tiny role.

              I really didn’t like “Sid and Nancy”. Pretty much 2 hours of heroin addicts screaming and whining to each other. I live in Portland, so if I want to hear that for 2 hours I can ride the MAXX!

        • richelieu jr

          I’ve met them both too, though I know Courtney MUCH better, god help me… Not quite sure what you mean…

        • richelieu jr

          It is a well-known fact that for whatever reasons, Courtney really sounds like whoever she is screwing at the moment (and she only screws rock stars, at least when she’s gonna write music…)

      • tetloj

        Coin operated boy is my anthem for my idiot boss

      • richelieu jr

        I played in concert once with the Dolls (though I am probably pretty pedantic and arty myself)– anyway I thought their short little set was quite good.

    • Spackle Motion

      The Dresden Dolls’ music is pedantic and awful. The only thing I’ve heard Palmer do that was interesting was her covering some songs with a ukulele. She can carry a tune, but her composing skills are severely lacking.

    • ParticleMom

      I think Neil is trying to find someone as fascinating as Tori Amos. I saw each of them perform (separately) back in ’94 at Smith College. They both told the story of how they met. You could see their eyes twinkle when they spoke about the other. Their friendship is certainly unique.

  • Observer

    OT, but oh dear Xenu I just ran across someone with the first name of Engram and there’s nobody else I can tell who will understand …

    • BuryTheNuts2

      OMG!
      I hope this is a MIT professors kid, and Mom just had a wicked sense of humor!

    • Sidney18511

      Kim K & Kanye West named their daughter……North West. Now that name will be sure to produce a nice Engram.

      • aquaclara

        Not sure, but perhaps some people shouldn’t have kids….if this is their first serious decision regarding their new child.

        • Bella Legosi

          Yeah………sometimes I have to second guess the whole eugenics thing…….they both should have been spayed and neutered. Let us all hope Kim couldn’t stand being pregnant and will never do this again. But, she prolly got off on the amount of media attention and attention in her personal life, NOT to do this again. I see a Round 2 in her future.

          • Sherbet

            Not that I have ever had one ounce of interest in either parent or, particularly, the happy mommy’s clan of K-named siblings…but this latest stunt of saddling that child with such a laughable name makes me angry. This is about the LAST thing I intend to read about either one of them, and that’s one resolution that will be easy to keep. Poor kid, idiotic parents.

            • Bella Legosi

              I agree with you. I had never ever seen any of the “reality” Kardashian shows, up until 2 nights ago. I got really really stoned and ended up watching an episode. It was like a train wreck. I couldn’t look away. I sorta understood by watching that, why there are shows like Honey Boo Boo. The horrible scripted “reality” was almost too much for me! Thank god my uncle came home and slapped some sense into me and changed the channel!

              I don’t know what it is but ever since I discovered Devil Cabbage I have noticed shit like Kardashian’s, infomercials, and Jesus Salvation Salesmen shows (religious infomercials is what I call them) always fascinate my stoned psyche! I will sit and torture myself until someone enters the room and asks, “WTF is wrong with you? Why are you watching this crap?” My response is usually blaming it on weed and laziness, but I freely admit here and now those things are just one of my many guilty pleasures!

            • Sherbet

              Can you imagine watching those idiots stone cold straight?

            • Bella Legosi

              NO NO NO

              That is probably why I was able to avoid watching that crap for sooooo damn long! Well I found a side effect of Devil Cabbage that I really don’t like! Thank god for awesome cable packages and the internet!

            • Sherbet

              If getting stoned allows a person to actually ENJOY the Kardashians and Honey Boo Boo, that would scare me straight. Sobriety is God’s way of saying, “Thou shalt boycott reality TV!”

            • Bella Legosi

              Agreed! “Reality” TV is more harmful then any violent movie or video game, IMHP!

            • Sherbet

              Can’t you watch Pink Floyd videos when stoned, like normal people? Geez, Bella! :-D

              (This comes from one of the straightest people in all of the Americas….)

            • Bella Legosi

              LOL!
              Oh, my…..Pink Floyd brings back many stoner memories from middle school. I saw a lazer Floyd show and that blew my little stoner mind at the tender age of 14!
              Pink Floyd music is wonderfully awesome stoned or straight! And The Wall is so damn trippy you really dont need pot to be blown away with that work of art. I fell the same about Akira too!

            • Bella Legosi

              Ooops fat fingered this post! Damn phone!

        • FistOfXenu

          2 so called grown ups and not enough brain cells between them to imagine what it’s gonna be like growing up with such a dumb ass name. Kids play rough when somebody’s different and nothing spells different like an idiotic name. Add to that celebrity parents and every thing that goes with it.

          I hate to think what else they’ll do to her. Dress her like a clown? Make her eat fad diets? Go all Michael Jackson on her and make her go around in a mask?

          • Sherbet

            I’m cringing to think if she’ll have a nickname. What, “Northie”? Good God.

            • Captain Howdy

              They should have named her “Jerry”.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I was hoping for “Rose”…

            • FistOfXenu

              Wild? Go? Out? True?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Just Rose West would have been perfect!

            • Captain Howdy

              And the son “Fred”?

            • Observer

              Double yikes!

            • Observer

              Yikes!

            • Captain Howdy

              Ee gads!

            • FistOfXenu

              Nick names! Nothing good can come from that. No-We? No-No? We-We? Nosty? Noddy? Nora? Weenee? Hey You? And that’s just the parents. Imagine what kids’ll call her. Nor’wester. No Waist. Waste. Wasted. Or maybe they’ll go for some thing to do with being from the Yukon, or from Alaska, or being a huskie. Kids are as good at bull baiting as any $cientologist doing TRs.

            • stateofcircle

              Rumor has it they’ve nicknamed her Nori.
              My name is stateofcircle and I’m a gossipaholic.

            • Sherbet

              Isn’t that some kind of seaweed?

            • stateofcircle

              Yup, it’s what they wrap sushi in.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Now I want Sushi for dinner!

            • stateofcircle

              Ok let’s go!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ooh, I stopped and got “grocery store sushi”.

              Oddly enough…it was great!

            • tetloj

              Me too. Did you read the snark that they couldn’t call her South because Suri was taken….I swear all roads lead to Scientology.

            • Sherbet

              NorthWest Passage. No. Please.

            • FistOfXenu

              I didn’t want to say that 1. Really. And if she has any obvious physical things to mock it’ll gets worse. Maybe this should be considered child abuse.

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            “Dress her like a clown?”

            Yes, they will have her in those reality shows’ beauty pageants – overly made up, dressed in skimpy outfits, and tottering on high heels like a ‘ho – before the age of two.

      • richelieu jr

        …And that very same girl gave birth to.. NorthWest Airlines!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          If she gets her momma’s ass, she’ll be able to hold a whole fleet of planes up there.

      • Robert Eckert

        The middle name is Bynorth

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      I love James Engram! Who can forget his masterpiece Xenu, Be There with Michael McDonald?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJRPMAG_vGA

  • Truthiwant

    Today’s story is great and reads a bit like a mystery novel.

    Tony Ortega’s journalism is suberb. Like any good journalist, he hints at some answers regarding the involment of Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer’s involvement in Scientology but not having the facts, he leaves it at that.

    I am not a journalist and as a reader of this site, I can say what I like and will tell you what I think about this couple, knowing very well the workings of Scientology. Of course I might be wrong but I have nothing to lose
    .
    I think that Scientology have got Neil Gaiman by the balls. He can’t speak up because he is going to lose too many members of his family. The only thing he can do is write an autobiografical book that has no mention to Scientology whatsoever. As a writer he probably has a lot of free thought but having grown up since birth as a Scientologist, he has certainly been well indoctrinated in to the cult. He probably still agrees with much of the teachings even though he might be off-lines now.

    Amanda Palmer probably knows a bit more about Scientology than she is letting on. Her Uncle’s contract to the restoration of a Scientology building is just too much of a coincidence. Something is going on there.

    Anyway, they’re my thoughts. Not very profound, I admit but realistic considering who we are talking about.

    Just one last thing about GandG vitamins. I know them well. If I am not wrong, they are the sole makers of CalMag, the calcium/magnesium mixed with apple vinegar drink that is a daily part of a Scientologist’s life. I don’t know about America, but for sure, here in Europe, GandG are the ones that have the exclusive production of this drink.

    • 0tessa

      I can also say what I like: Scientology = Gaimans = Scientology. For a very long time already.

    • aquaclara

      For those who know, what does this calmag stuff taste like, and what is it supposed to do for you? So this G & G is another cult-related business that hawks another useless product? Are you supposed to take it every day?
      I googled it, and the first one came up for helping plants grow. The next one had this:
      “Beachbody’s Core Cal-Mag is the best calcium-magnesium supplement, “no bones about it!” Here’s the deal: together calcium and magnesium are required for over 300 metabolic and critical biological processes, yet studies show that most of us don’t get enough of either in our diets—which means the body has to take unhealthy shortcuts. Core Cal-Mag contains 100% of the recommended daily value of calcium and 125% of magnesium, with added vitamin D so the calcium is absorbed for optimal bone health.*”
      It also has a section labeled “testimonials” on their website, so if this turns out to be a Scilon company, would we be surprised? I have begun to loathe “testimonials” . (No snark font used here)

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        I don’t know anything about G & G specifically but in North America, many companies make cal-mag supplements. Generally speaking, one takes calcium to prevent or stabilize bone density loss, especially for a woman when she hits menopausal years with declining estrogen levels, and if she gets a specific diagnosis later on, will take them the rest of her life. In both men and women, one takes to calcium to ward off conditions such as osteoporosis. In recent years, western doctors have added magnesium so that a person will absorb the calcium better. Magnesium has it’s own specific and general uses. This is the most common reason for taking cal-mag. There are other conditions where it will be prescribed.

        In the alternative fields, cal-mag is suggested for a longer list of conditions and potential preventative benefits.

        Note: I have no medical training but have been stuck in the medical system’s hamster wheel long enough to know this little bit.

        I believe we have nutritionists, doctors, nurses, etc, in the Bunker, not to mention the current and former members who actually had to use the stuff so I’m sure you’ll get more in-depth reasons for it’s use.

        • aquaclara

          ok, good – it’s real, and it’s helpful. Most unlike typical scilon endorsements!

        • stateofcircle

          I’m one of the Bunker nutritionists. To be general, one of my specialties is vitamins/minerals/herbs/supplements and I am constantly studying them and try very hard to keep my knowledge current. If anyone ever has a question or wants a little information, you’re more than welcome to contact me, by posting on here or you can shoot me an email, which is my nickname AT gmail. I especially extend that invitation to any exes or current Scientologists who are or have been taking supplements as directed by the church and have any questions about them whatsoever.

      • Truthiwant

        There are many CalMag supplements on the market but for the Scientologists there is only one type and it is made by GandG. I’m sure if a Scientologist knew he was taking another make of CalMag he would instantly think it was not doing him any good. GandG are big business but I wouldn’t be surprised if a percentage for their CalMag went directly to the Church. Even if it doesn’t, the Church are guaranteed a lot of money because almost everybody that works there are Scientologists. Where there’s money, there’s a Sea Org fundraiser always looming near by.

      • grundoon

        Dr. L. Ron Hubbard, Endocrinologist, Biochemist, Nutritionist, Humaitarian prescribes: Between 1945 and 1973 I studied the endocrine system. In 1973 it seemed that minerals and trace minerals operating in the blood stream and circulated by other body fluids were a key to glandular interactions. The theory is: Every gland in the body specializes in one or more minerals and actually that is how they make themselves interact one with another. The endocrine system of the body monitors the endocrine system of the body apparently through minerals. As various drugs upset the whole endocrine system of the body you can see that the moment you start administering vitamins and sweat out and things like that you’re going to get a mineral demand in the body. Therefore, there would need to be certain mineral dosages right along with the rest of this package….

        Calcium is a must where any healing or exchange process is involved as it is a basic building block. But more important, it is calcium which affects the nervous system. I do not know the total relationship between calcium and toxic substances (and neither does anyone else) but it actually exists. The rationale back of this is that calcium in deficiency sets a person up for spasms. Nerve spasms occur in the absence of calcium. A person who thinks he is in high tension or something of the sort may simply have a calcium deficiency.

        Calcium would be administered in company with magnesium. Magnesium itself has been proven necessary to keep the nerves smoothed out. The proven ratio is one half the quantity of magnesium to the quantity of calcium. Something else odd about calcium is that it has to have an acidic base to operate in. If the system is too alkaline the calcium will not release the positive ion which makes it possible for the calcium to operate in the cellular structure and go through the vein walls and the intestinal walls and so forth. In other words, in an alkaline system calcium is ineffective and inactive. So this brings us up to vinegar, which would add the acidic base. With calcium, magnesium and vinegar, in their correct quantities, in water exactly per the recipe, we have Cal-Mag. That is what “Cal-Mag” is and what it does. I developed and worked this out in 1973 against the very best biochemical background and references and tests.

        Calcium and magnesium can be taken in order to prevent sore muscles. Cal-Mag has been found to have the added benefit of balancing out the Vitamin B1 taken, as Vitamin B1 taken without calcium can cause serious teeth problems due to causing an imbalance of vitamins and minerals. The Cal-Mag formula, as given in HCOB 5 Nov 74 DRUGS, MORE ABOUT is repeated here:

        1. Put one level tablespoon of calcium gluconate in a normal sized glass.
        2. Add 1/2 level teaspoon of magnesium carbonate.
        3. Add 1 tablespoon of cider vinegar (at least 5% acidity).
        4. Stir it well.
        5. Add 1/2 glass of boiling water and stir until all the powder is dissolved and the liquid is clear. (If this doesn’t occur it could be from poor grade or old magnesium carbonate.)
        6. Fill the remainder of glass with lukewarm or cold water and cover. It will stay good for 2 days.

        NOTE: There is a warning about Cal-Mag. Variations from the above can produce an unsuccessful mess that can taste pretty horrible. It can be made incorrectly so that it doesn’t dissolve and become the most unpalatable, ghastly stuff anybody ever fed anybody. Possibly made incorrectly it is even unworkable. Made correctly it is a very clear liquid, quite pleasant to take and palatable. So the directions should be followed very explicitly to produce a proper Cal-Mag, pleasant to take and very beneficial. – HCO BULLETIN OF 6 FEBRUARY 1978 – THE PURIFICATION RUNDOWN REPLACES THE SWEAT PROGRAM

  • ze moo

    “So Monday’s documentary about Rathbun and the covert war he was engaged
    in with his former friends was always going to provide a rather bizarre
    peek into the minds of some of the most genuinely deluded and unpleasant
    people you could ever hope to avoid.”

    The Irish Independent has a review of ‘Scientologists at War”. The snark is very strong in this one.

    http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/crackpot-cult-and-its-crazy-defector-deserve-each-other-29361566.html

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      As Tom Cruise would sputter: Zzzzzing! Phhhhffftt! Zammm. This sounds like a job for …..

      [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2qut4w3.png[/IMG]

      • ze moo

        Great pic, the hat could use some tin foil though.

      • Bella Legosi

        Can those glasses also read golden Mormon god tablets???????

  • ThetaBara

    OT but I’m curious whether anyone saw this photo of TC looking like Ronald Reagan at his Walmart appearance:
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/21/article-2345978-1A342EAF000005DC-612_306x642.jpg

    • Captain Howdy

      I think he looks more like Dustin Hoffman’s younger brother..oh wait..nevermind.

      All joking aside, anybody else think the older he gets the more he ‘s looking like Hoffman?

      • stateofcircle

        Has Tom done anything Sciloon related since the divorce? Like attend any events, donate (that we would know of) to any of the front groups or speak about it publicly at all in the past year? I can’t help but wonder what impact the divorce had on his relationship with the cult. Obviously since he’s Tom Cruise, he wasn’t forced to disconnect from Kate and Suri, and the cult seemingly hasn’t done anything to DA her, and I wonder how much input Tom had in all of that and if it could have possibly opened his eyes at least a little. I know he went through some stuff with the divorce from Nicole, but I think it is different this time for many, many reasons, chief among them his much higher level of participation and the fact that he was blindsided badly. I know he’s pretty far gone, but I’d really like to know what his relationship is like with them now.

        • Sherbet

          I sort of miss the old BS-slinging, couch jumping, Matt Lauer-insulting loudmouth. It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall when TC was called into the principal’s office (aka DM’s inner sanctum) and ordered to shut up, already, since he was making scn look stooopider than it is.

          • ze moo

            I think the studio are the ones who shut him up. They were afraid his ‘outspokenness’ would affect his ‘moneybringinginness’. And it has, it just took a few years to take hold. TC’s scilon pr sister lost her job and supposed ‘professionals’ run it now. I doubt we’ll see TC press the Lroon agenda unless someone publicly challenges him on it. His ego can’t resist a good ‘confront’.

            I too miss the crazy……I hope it pops up soon….

            • Sherbet

              I’d hate for him to wake up one day and renounce the cult, because I’d like to see some comeuppance.

        • SS

          I too held some hope the blindside could help him see the light, but he attended an event in England just a few months ago. I think he’s still a clam through and through.

        • Roman

          He’s attended one event since Katie ditched him.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            UK? Correct?

            • Roman

              Yeah, came with a date and left right before it ended. His family who is still in told me he hasn’t been to any other events.

      • 1subgenius

        No. It won’t end well.

        • Leslie Stipe

          Good job. Love the liver spots!

          • 1subgenius

            Not mine.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Barf!

    • Robert Eckert

      What what what? Ok, why is Cruise at a Walmart, and why is this being covered by the Daily Fail — there aren’t any Walmarts in the UK are there?

      • Bella Legosi

        *puts on tin foil hat*

        Co$ and WalMart have secretly engaged into a partnership. Co$ will now have a free stress test booth; located between the pharmacy and eye wear, WalMart and Author Services will team up to provide the millions who shop at WalMart with 100% Source “tech”, and WalMart will now implement the upper management tech among it’s salaried employees courtesy of WISE. WalMart will fully endorse Co$ and all of its “good works” organizations. They will also stress to employees the virtues and tax benefits of donating to Co$. If employees do not donate, WalMart and Co$ will use WalMarts databases to locate and route out any and all dissenters (by accusing them of being covert union organizers).

        In turn Co$ shall provide a robust and robotic workforce for WalMart. There will be an option on the Billion Year Contracts which a person may choose to work for SO or WalMart. WalMart will not have to train many SO employees on sales, as they are very familiar with raising money with in Co$. Co$ would also provide WalMart with their OSA officers and pleathera of private detectives to dig up any blackmail material for WalMart executives to use (that way WalMart has plausible deniability that they are stalking people/whistle blowers).

        *tin foil hat off*

      • ThetaBara

        The DF loves TC. He did a big publicity appearache for Walmart at the shareholders’ gathering – and praised them for being a good company! (LOL.) I mean, they aren’t quite as bad as the Sea Org but they’re famous for low wages and no benefits.

        Here’s a link:

        http://www.celebitchy.com/303616/tom_cruise_wal-mart_is_making_a_difference_thats_something_i_really_admire/

        • Robert Eckert

          Thanks. ” the prevailing theory is that Wal-Mart will “decide to feature” the DVDs or albums of the celebrities who willingly kiss their exploitative asses” is the paydirt sentence.

  • Mother Teegeeack

    Clearly, the Twin Cities’ Org is uptone and on source in
    their adherence to the Corpulent Commodore’s policies on dental health and
    hygiene.

    With the exception of the attractive light-eyed brunette who
    delivered the video’s penultimate “Yo Baby” (perhaps she’s still on her parent’s
    dental plan), the Twin Cities’ Staff
    appears to have diligently followed the Rotten-toothed Rascal’s lead in eschewing
    the toothbrush, dental floss, and regular cleanings.

    Now Scientologists will tell you that Hubbard was a Big
    Being who wasn’t concerned with “meat body” trivialities such as dental care, exercise,
    and proper diet.

    I might suggest that the Ginger-haired Gastropod was
    mortally afraid of doctors, dentists, and discomfort ( remember Hana Eltringham’s
    and Jon Atack’s accounts of the Fat Fraudster’s weeks of childish whining
    and tantrums after he fell off his motorcycle while riding on Tenerife), and
    that he didn’t even possess the modest amount of self-discipline necessary to
    keep a healthy set of teeth.

    • Sherbet

      You have a way with alliterative epithets for ol’ lrh, Mother T!

    • Bella Legosi

      Gastropod………..I like that!

      The $cilon I worked for had worse teeth, but then got dental implants. However, the implants caused her upper gums to turn black, so she traded one nasty mouth pretty much for another.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I think Amanda’s AFP is really cool.. I’m gonna do that with my name.. but I can’t decide where to put the F.. After the Sugar and before the Plum? Or after the Plum and before the Fairy?? Intellectually, I know this isn’t really funny.. but you’d be surprised how funny it is after 3shots of jagermeister.,

    • FistOfXenu

      I prefer after the Plum. Has a better cadence. Otherwise the F could sound like it’s what you do to Sugar and then it’s too easy to fall into saying “Plum-Fairy” at the end. But really there’s no easy way to do it with your name.
      Just saying.

    • Captain Howdy

      Sugarplum “Fucking” Fairy of course. 3 shots of yager? Sheeeeeit, I need to hit the packie. I’m as sober as the Taliban.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I thought we had already changed your name to something like that a few weeks ago?

      • sugarplumfairy

        Lol.. Yah.. SugarplumShithead.. That’s pretty hard to top..

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yeah! Makes me chuckle again just seeing it.

        • George Layton

          Is that akin to SugarPlumshitFaced?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Um, very close….but not quite.
            ;-)

    • grundoon

      Smack in the middle: sugarplfuckingumfairy

      Say it 3 times fast. If you slip, do another shot and try again.

  • Jeb Burton

    Anyone who is a fan of old time wrestling, we got a three way death match going on over at the ultimate warrior’s site. Corporate scientology vs corporate lite vs indies. I guess we have to choose sides, or we can hope for total destruction of all of them. But they all agree that LRH is god.

    • Bella Legosi

      Oh my!

      I like to be a spectator when there are flame ups on the internet. It is very rare that I will engage in a verbal fight online, but I do like reading them and watching the evolution of verbal shit flinging wars.

      I am too much of a Libra to really choose sides. Sometimes I hate being so diplomatic, but am eternally cursed to hope that people can all get along, no matter their sex, color, or creed. However, I will interject when shit gets really out of hand or when people keep arguing a futile point.

      This sounds fun tho! I may have to check it out. Is it Marty’s page? I haven’t been there in months. Ever since he started writing long Indie Dianetics stuff. That is boring for a wog like me and I try to leave the Indies alone, but I just may have to go lurk!

      Thanks for the heads up!

  • Bella Legosi

    Hey guys………interesting but off topic……..I started a paper rout with my little bro last night. I met the boss and found out he was part of the Rahneeh cult and actually lived in Antelope, OR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneeshpuram

    So, now I have worked under 2 kool aid drinkers in my lifetime, and I haven’t even reached 30! Oregon is interesting to say the least.

    When my boss clarified the pronunciation of his name, he figured my bro and I were too young to have known about that cult. LOL not this girl! I told him I had heard and remembered the news stories about them trying to take over our state government and mentioned Antelope. I left it alone after that, but I did almost say, “Well it could have been worse! You could have been into $cientology!” But I bit my tongue, as this was the first impression face time that this boss and I had and I didn’t want to get off on the wrong foot. But, if everything goes right, I might be hearing some interesting stories; should this guy actually talk about his time in the cult. He kept the name, so I am assuming he is either still loosely tied to the cult or got out of it, but kept the name. I dunno. Thought you fellow Bunkerites would be interested!

    • Captain Howdy

      I remember the rajaneesh quite well. The people of Oregon should be proud that they stood up to those freaks.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYE4MaAA0cA

      • Bella Legosi

        Some of us are. One of my friends got really freaked out for me when I told her about it. She told me that it was probably smart not to get into it much with this guy and keep on my toes.

        Oregon City has a Christian Scientist sect that just got over some legal issues regarding the deaths of two infants. Oregon is home to a lot of different types of Kool Aid and the scary part about most of them is they are all under the radar and don’t freely fly a freak flag.

        • Captain Howdy

          You need to turn all the white separatists against all the other freaks, and when they’re done, have the feds come in and round them up.

          • Sherbet

            Then the good guys can come out. Sort of Helter Skelter in reverse.

            • Captain Howdy

              Exactly.

          • Bella Legosi

            The white separatists already hate us city, ‘queer loving’, stoner, liberal, city dwellers! The mood and politics drastically changes when you venture outside Portland, Eugene, or Salem. Detroit, Oregon is still known to be a sunddown town towards blacks, mexicans, and asians. The city dwellers here love Obama but are prone to conspiracy theory, so having the Feds swoop down and round them all up would be tricky. The City Dwellers and Rednex would prolly join forces against the government and then go ape shit against each other after it was all said and done.

            If any of the above happens I am totally hiding out with my ex who has his private armory or hermit-ting in some woods! That would be interesting to witness, but I think I would rather use my imagination; then actually witness that breakdown of society. People just get plain vicious and weird when that shit goes down.

            • Captain Howdy
            • Bella Legosi

              Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

              Sometimes I feel ashamed to be American. I mean really, this type of shit is still around in this country and it is constitutionally protected. Excuse me while I go vomit and begin a crusade against screwheads like this!

            • Sherbet

              Sickening.

            • Captain Howdy

              They’ve been talking about this “Little Europe” plan for the Northwest for awhile now . Supposedly after the great race war the country will be divided up, and the Aryans want the Northwest.

            • Sherbet

              The more naive I am, the happier I am. I don’t like knowing how sick the world may be. If I don’t focus on the goodness of the world, then I’m emotionally doomed. I know that sounds corny, but I can’t heal the world, only my own little piece of it.

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah, over my dead body! They can take their ignorant asses right the fuck out of this state and country IMO. I doubt that there are many countries that would want this sort of garbage, but they can totally have them! If ever there was a good reason to have agencies like FBI, ATF, DEA; these bastard screwheads are it!

            • Bella Legosi

              “White migrants to the Northwest make at least one preliminary visit or scouting trip to the Homeland before they make the permanent move, specifically a visit to their proposed area of settlement. Prospective migrants must get a look at us, and we must get a look at them.” Thank you Captain for letting me know what sort of garbage is in my backyard. I am thoroughly pissed off now. I want my railgun goddamn it!

    • grundoon

      Don’t let him fix you a salad.

      • Bella Legosi

        I’ll remember that!

  • Observer

    stateofcircle: LolliCOB guild made me laugh and laugh, and then gave me ideas. Disqus won’t allow me to post this as a response to you, so here it is.

    • stateofcircle

      Thanks Obs! You’ve made me laugh many a time with your hilariously fantastic shoops, so I’m glad I can return the favor.

    • Sherbet

      You are a goddess, Observer!

    • stateofcircle

      HAHAHAHA I didn’t see the picture until now when refreshed Disqus. AWESOME!

    • Bella Legosi

      Someone posted a .gif of a shooped image of the lollipop guild doing the dance, but with Little Boots face! I loved it and can not find it anywhere!

    • aquaclara

      Isn’t this sweet?!?

      • Bella Legosi

        It is fantastically entheatic!

        I love it!

    • q-bird

      oh Obs!!! You done did it AGAIN ! I loves ya!

      laughing here – trying not to awaken Mr. Q-bird!

    • Casabeca

      You are a Glinda the good-shooping witch, using your magic wand. Do you work wearing tiara too?

  • Guest

    So Gaiman lives in the Twin Cities …

    1). Perhaps this makes up for the brutal winters that run for 6 months
    2). Perhaps I shall see an army of Cybermen marching down Cedar Street en route to see the ex-Mrs. G
    3). Perhaps I shall bump into him one day

  • media_lush
    • Roman

      Let’s be honest, everything Marty got, he created. Poetic justice. Got bless the fucker and may he make better decisions “next lifetime”.

    • aquaclara

      I do love a good headline!

  • Paul DC

    I don’t see what the issue people take against faith healing. So what? I think the biggest deal is when they won’t take blood when doing an operation or medical stuff like that!

    • Sherbet

      Scientology isn’t faith healing. What exactly are you trying to say, Paul?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I think Paul is trying to say: feel my finger? There is no plasma in it!

        Edit: but that could be the Stella Artois talking!

        • Paul DC

          What? I was just trying to call out some bigotry against Scientifical healings

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Um, are you new around these parts?
            Just asking.

            Because new people tent to say…What?, to me a lot.

            Edit: Scientifically? Snort!
            Haha, nevermind.
            Sometimes I am so daft!

            • Paul DC

              If a faith healing group is needing held, I am right there but I hope that answered your question:)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Please tell me you don’t work as their proof reader…

            • Bella Legosi

              If adults want to put their faith into healing, I am of the opinion……..let them. But, faith healing has no business when it concerns children. This is NOT the early 1900′s where everyone was still not sure if germs were the cause of some illnesses! Children should not be made to suffer for their parent’s “faith” end of story. Period. To argue against this will really make you out to be a very ignorant and cold hearted SoB.

              By the way, thank you for walking into a lions den. Have you tried a slice of humble pie? Many of us here make really really tasty humble pie!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I think I recognize an old friend here Bella…..

            • Sherbet

              Theo? Louanne? Who, Bury?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh, this one has had many, many different sox.
              And they have a very high IQ and impeccable spelling.
              ( when they feel like it).

            • Sherbet

              What’s the name begin with? LOL

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh my….
              C
              S
              P

              Those are just a few….

            • Sherbet

              Gotcha, kiddo. Anyway, Paul seems to have gone mute. “The rest is silence…”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Don’t bet the farm yet…

            • Bella Legosi

              I just got done with my ranting 2 cents! I came across this interaction just now……..and I could not keep quiet!

            • Sherbet

              “Paul” is either seriously confused about scientology vs. Christian Science, or he’s just trying to muddy the Bunker’s waters a bit. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s barking up the wrong religion.

              Either way, I’m outta this game.

            • Captain Howdy

              Me to. Time to go crush people in my dreams.

            • George Layton

              night Captain

            • George Layton

              night Sherbet

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah, I think I am with ya 100% on this.

            • Captain Howdy

              Brand new account created just for this idiotic git and run. These people couldn’t troll if their lives depended on it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Per usual!

            • Paul DC

              Marcabia!!!

            • Paul DC

              You know me so well:)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Somebody has to!
              Muah sweetie….I am off to bed.
              You made my night!
              I always love a challenge.

            • tetloj

              Grundoon got it!

            • Paul DC

              You’re fucking kidding, right?

            • Captain Howdy

              What?

            • Paul DC

              Thought so:}

            • Captain Howdy

              How so?

            • Paul DC

              You aren’t very attentive to fonts and such

            • Captain Howdy

              Sue me

            • stateofcircle

              I think we need a music break, Cap.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I agree, and I think “Paul” has reached his/ her attention span limit on us.
              (If memory serves me correctly)

            • Paul DC

              Many have commented. And a few are right. Recanting what I’ve fomented! Can we get along alright? And enjoy the summer. Be it not the solstice tonight? I fill my lungs with seasonal miasma. And look forward to the July fantasia!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well you know I respect you.
              Cheers to the Solstice.
              And it is always a pleasure to see you in this lovely form.

            • Paul DC

              I take it you figured out the code:)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I told you I was good with codes…
              But I suck at roads…… ;-)

            • Paul DC

              Anyway what do the caps spell on my post?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              What does it always spell?
              Are you wearing your Fedora?

              And I DID miss you!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Like the sarcasm font capt!

            • Paul DC

              You aren’t very attentive

            • Captain Howdy

              Don’t put yourself down like that, Paulie

            • Captain Howdy

              CSP? I’m lost on this one.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, this one is kind of “special” to me….
              I am going to defer with that…..

              Edit: kind of sinister isn’t it…

            • Captain Howdy

              Oh, it’s the diddler..I mean riddler. how boring.

            • Paul DC

              Meanie

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Good lord, do you recall how many times you have called me a meanie?
              I have screen shots!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ha! Just like a woman to keep that shit around to drag up years later. Luv ya!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              HELLYAH!

            • Bella Legosi

              Oh you got my interest now! Some one I know of since I joined in months back???

              Where is DekkardCain?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Deck is now Spackle Motion.

              And I am not sure if you know this one….it has been a while since “she” has been here.

            • Bella Legosi

              No, I didn’t know that. Thank you! I hate saying them, their, or him/her. Much easier when you at least know the sex of a person. I like Spackle’s avi

            • Sherbet

              DC remains in the Bunker with a name change (but not a philosophy change).

            • Captain Howdy

              DC is here under a different name and why would you suspect them?

            • Bella Legosi

              oh I don’t. They just popped into my mind when she said “old friend”, cuz I just remembered I haven’t seen him/her in months. I loved their posts. They are also one of the peeps I followed here at the Bunker early on.

            • Captain Howdy

              I knew that, but I was just curious.:)

            • Proud to be an SP

              Are you saying Paul is one of us posters ? Excellent spoof Paul, I love the notion of scientifcal Christian faith healers with epicenters that are being honed. Either that or LRH has returned and this is his new writing style because he is still high from being on one of the other planets.

            • Bella Legosi

              I wasn’t saying that or implying. I am not too good on spotting posters who change their identities. I have been coming here regularly since December or January. A lot of good people come and go. I had just realized when I read Bury’s post that I had not seen DK post in quite some time.

              I do not remember seeing regular posts from someone who has such horrid spelling or confusing points. That sticks out ya know. I don’t claim to be the worlds best speller, but I at least try to use spellcheck when it is available! Oh well I suppose they get a star for trying.

            • Paul DC

              Aren’t they making a big healing epicenter with various senses and such to be honed and made better

            • Bella Legosi

              lol

              No, we got alcohol for that!

              :)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Note the variance in tone and literacy?

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah……this argument is futile at best. Oh well. I put my two cents in whether he wanted it or not! Tis all I can do!

            • Captain Howdy

              Epcot Center?

            • Sherbet

              No, that has the Goofiness Table, not the Oiliness Table. Silly Captain.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Poor Walt, his prototype city turned into another fucking theme park…

          • Captain Howdy

            You can’t be bigoted against something that doesn’t exist.

          • grundoon

            I was just thinking, how come Marcabian Commander doesn’t post here anymore?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              See what you did Grundoon!

      • Paul DC

        Aren’t you being a bias by saying that?

        • Sherbet

          It’s not bias. Scientology never pretended to be faith healing. Its wins and healings have nothing to do with faith, but are produced by the body and mind working together to rid the person of the negativity that cause illness.

          That said, Paul, I don’t believe in it, but, still, your definition of scientology doesn’t jibe with SCIENTOLOGY’S OWN definition of scientology.

          • Paul DC

            It just seems these are Christians using their intentions to make things workable and help those who need touch healings and such in disasters

            • Sherbet

              Hubbard said Jesus Christ was imaginary, so scientologists are not Christians.

              Do you believe that people who have been in disasters may need emotional help by professional doctors or therapists?

            • Paul DC

              I think the whole “scientist” thing confuses people when they really are not

            • Sherbet

              Whatever. You’re just throwing in a bunch of non sequiturs now to detail discussion. KSW, Paul, if it makes you happy. Just don’t hurt anyone.

            • George Layton

              Which people?

            • Paul DC

              The Scientists

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I think you just made me have an epiphany!
              I have spent way too much time on this blog!

            • Bella Legosi

              lol

              DUM DUM DUM!!!!!!

              That is healthy to think every now and then Bury! I commend you on your honesty ya sexy little minx!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Muah! My pretty!

            • Bella Legosi

              Always mah Lady!

              Paul is trying to sound smart and I am just shooting him down! hahahahah This is too funny!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              “Paul” is smart…way smarter than I am.
              Beware!

            • stateofcircle

              WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!?!?!?!?!?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              It is blast from the past night!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Who’s on first?

            • Bella Legosi

              No shit

            • Robert Eckert

              PaulDC apparently does not know the difference between Christian Scientists and Scientologists, and is here to discuss his disagreements with the Christian Scientists.

            • Bella Legosi

              “Christian Scientists”. They believe only in “faith” healing. They do not use antibiotics, disinfectants, or see doctors. When they or their children get sick all they do is pray for god’s healing love to combat the illness. There have been incidents involving children who come down with appendicitis or bladder infections, who die horrible, painful deaths because it was according to God’s plan. Sickening! Just sickening!

            • George Layton

              Remember the good old Old Testament gods that would zap people in the ass with a lightning bolt when they pulled stupid faith believing like that?

            • Bella Legosi

              Yup. Better ready the sacricial lamb for a burnt offering or feed a kid to Moloch!

            • Bella Legosi

              Very true. They are anti-scientist. Can’t even be allowed to use antibiotics or disinfectant.

            • Captain Howdy

              Christians? You’re either trolling or you took a wrong turn.

            • Bella Legosi

              They are not Christians. Some of them think they are early on, but when someone gets past the state of “Clear”, $cientologists believe that they have actually surpassed Jesus himself in regards to awareness and spirituality. Please do a little bit of reading before you post comments that will really entice those who are not as nice as I. Just saying……….oh have you heard about the many lawsuits that accuse these good christian $cientologists of FORCED ABORTIONS? And this takes place among $cientology’s “priesthood”, the Sea Org. That isn’t too Christ like is it? I thought Christians were against abortions? Cuz, Co$ literally has told many pregnant women that that child is really just a glob of tissue, it is endangering that woman’s eternity, and all kinds of things to convince that woman to terminate. All so Co$ can keep another slave to do the bidding of psychotics!

            • Paul DC

              Those things you say don’t sound much like the scientists I was talking about, may be you shoud read too?

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I did read. You just said “scientists”. Do you not know what thou hast typist?

              You come on an anti-scientology blog talking about faith healing Christians who might be scientologists. If you haven’t read your own post or the absolute confusion discussed by fellow readers, you would know just how idiotic you are making yourself out to be, guy.

              I am sorry. Did I touch a nerve? Holy shit, this is the internet, I didn’t have to touch anything, that is the power of MY “faith”. See what I just did there?

              :)

              Swing and a miss. Strike one! Care to take another swing????

            • George Layton

              Bella, did you ever read the later books in the Dune series, by Frank Herbert, when the different race’s religions started melding together. We might be talking about science fiction here.

            • Bella Legosi

              I tried reading “Dune” and never finished it. I couldn’t believe that all that material was in one person’s brain. It blew me away. I am not a big.fan of sci-fy so I never finished it!

              If humans make it, I can see some form of one world religion developing in the future. That is if atheism doen’t overtake religion. That could happen too

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I didn’t make it through first time either, but now I’ve read all the originals several times. Give it another try kiddo.

              Here’s to rooting for atheism!

            • Bella Legosi

              Yes! All you atheists need to cpme out of the closet damn it!

              Thanks for the suggestion. I might take them back up. I just got a few I am getting into now, but if I do jump into another scify book it will probably be that one. It really does blow me away he had all that in his mind before he got it all down on paper! Makes my fanfictio seem like kindergarder stuff!

            • George Layton

              I started Dune , the first one, several times before I made it through. That one was like trying to swim through soft Carmel.

            • Bella Legosi

              Great analogy!

        • stateofcircle

          Can someone explain what we’re talking about? Paul’s original comment about faith healing wasn’t in response to anything and I am very confused.

  • dbloch7986

    I like how the woman in the video supports misogyny. Hubbard said that bit about silent births so he could chastise mothers for screaming during childbirth. Its a thinly veiled slight at women to point out that they are week. So this woman is supporting misogyny, which is quiet, but common within Scientology walls.

    The Jett Travolta foundation is just a sad form of irony. Scientology absolutely contributed, if not the sole contributing factor, to the poor boy’s death.

    Thank you for this post . I have heard Neil’s name before but I had no idea who he was. I can tell this wasn’t easy on your poor fingers. You should get one of those dragon dictators.

    • Roman

      Dude I hate Scientology, but this post is so far gone. I new the Travoltas well. The kid was autistic. They had real doctors for him. He died due to a seizure in a shower because he wasn’t supervised. He never got an ounce of Scientology in his life as he was neurologically incapable of understanding too much. As far as the screaming during childbirth – totally wrong on that point, too. Lol, I’m all for you attacking it, but at least know what you’re saying.

      • Sherbet

        I think the issue people have, Roman, is that the money given to the Foundation seems to have been given to scientology front groups or pet projects. I say “seems,” because I don’t know that for sure. When my Dad passed away of cancer, contributions to his memory went to reputable cancer research foundations. We didn’t divert the money to the family’s personal causes, like churches or scholarships.

        • Roman

          I don’t claim to have knowledge of such transactions but would not doubt those donations did go to Scientology causes. I just don’t want people judging their parenting of Jett. I feel it’s an unfair battle as autism is barely understood and nearly impossible to treat. It’s like chastising a Jewish citizen for not singlehandedly thwarting WW2. The problem was much bigger than themselves.

      • Captain Howdy

        So why did they deny he was autistic If they had “real’ doctors to treat him for autism? And why was he having seizures? Was he on seizure meds? I’m guessing not seeing as how they don’t prescribe seizure meds for Kawasaki disease, and they don’t allow seizure meds in scientology, do they?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          They did have him on anti seizure meds, and JT admitted in Bahamian Court that the kid was Autistic.

          They changed the meds several times as they would become ineffective after a time.

          ( or so I have heard)

          • Captain Howdy

            Did seizure meds show up in the toxicology report? JT said that Jett was “autistic” in a wog court, what else is he going to say? The evidence was on the table. Kelly is saying that Jett was “coming out” of his autism. WTF?

            I think we have a good idea of what John & Kelly believe caused Jett’s autism.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am not sure ,but I don’t think so. Jett had apparently been taken off of anti seizure meds like two weeks prior to his death. I can’t remember which drug, but his his frequent seizures had returned, so he was taken off.
              Yeah JT said it in WOG (but Bahamian) court, but I didn’t think the drugs were on a tox screen?

              Kelly Preston is a fucked up crazy Sciloon!
              JT is in terminal chains.

            • Roman

              I knew Jett. I was friends with him growing up. He was very much normal as a child when I was his age. His parents had the carpets cleaned with chemicals, Jett inhaled them and it caused damage to his nervous system. This is not a farce. This is reality. He was a handsome young kid before that. I actually feel sorry for John and Kelly for what transpired after that. What mother wouldn’t clench on to whatever hope she could and say her child was “coming out” of autism? Fuck, if my child was autistic, I would pray to whatever god I could muster to help them.

            • Anamorphosis

              Anti-seizure meds do not act as a silver bullet. If the kid was on medications, that does not mean he is not going to have seizures. I’ve worked with many kids and young adults with seizure disorders. My close friend has one as well. Sometimes the medications work and sometimes they work sort of well and sometimes they simply do not work at all. One client I recently worked with had a brilliant doctor who specialized in seizures. Every medication was tried. In the end, when I stopped working with her because she was leaving the mental health facility I help manage, they were talking about brain surgery to stop the seizures which made me very sad.

              However, on a different note, it was said that the autism was brought on by “smelling carpet cleaning fumes?” That is just not possible. Brain damage can be caused by inhaling chemicals, it is true. Just like any “huffing” of any noxious chemicals can cause brain damage. But autism cannot be created by noxious chemicals. If that were true, wouldn’t there be campaigns on billboards stating how huffing can lead to autism in an otherwise perfectly healthy individual? I do not tend to work with autistic individuals in general though I do have some mildly autistic individuals enter my clinic. However, my mother is a special education teacher who has worked with autism for a very long time and I grew up volunteering in her class rooms and hearing the developmental research discussed. Austim is always present at birth. There are several studies attempting to explain what happens in the development of the brain. One of the most current studies found that the dopamine receptors, which help a child respond positively to voices, are simply not formed. Of course when one is more severely autistic and not just Aspergers (no longer a real dx according to the current DSM 5 BTW) there are many other factors that inhibit the child as well as that one.

            • Roman

              The carpet fumes he inhales as a child was the story I was told by the Travoltas. Whatever caused it, the fact remains they did admit to him being afflicted with autism.

        • Roman

          If you’re a parent, or put yourself in a parent’s shoes – a celebrity parent’s shoes: It’s devastating to have an autistic child. They did not deny him any doctors or meds. They treated him as best they could. Attack all you want of the Church but John and Kelly loved that kid and took care of him. I know from first hand experience. And treatment for autism doesn’t really exist. They don’t even know what the fuck autism is and there’s about a dozen different versions. I challenge you to have an autistic child and then let the masses judge you on your parenting skills. And you’re confusing Scientology with Christian Science who do not believe in medicine. If you need a doctor, Scientology tells you to go to whichever doctor will make you better and take whatever drug will cure you – painkiller or otherwise – bad point to argue for you.

    • aquaclara

      The Jett Travolta Foundation looked to me -upon first glance-to be a charity that supported autism and possible cures. I was sadly mistaken. Possibly, I just projected what I thought this charity should be. with a little more research, I realize that all the money raised goes to support more Scilon front groups.
      How sad.

      If his parents had been able to come out from under their Scilon toadstool, they would have been able to learn more about the dangers of autism and treatthis appropriately. But as the church refuses to acknowledge autism, Jett’s illness was hidden. Money was not an issue, clearly.

      But you have to wonder why a trained medical professional was not with him, if his parents were not. A photographer as “manny” doesn’t pass the squirrel sniff test. It might have made a big difference.

      • Proud to be an SP

        He also had epilepsy – and my understanding is that he fell in the bathroom during a seizure. He was not on anti-seizure medication, so his seizures were not under control. Put together with the lack of medically trained support staff, and perhaps a wait to call the ambulance, Scientology beliefs and practices absolutely caused his death. If he had proper medical treatment including medication, he would still be alive.

  • stateofcircle

    OT, has anyone read John Sweeney’s book? It’s on sale in the Kindle store, and I’m debating on whether to get it.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Yes, it is funny. It is not a prize winner, but it is a great read.

  • rosie

    Not bad, but you’ve left a few important facts out of your article, Tony.

    Neil Gaiman contributed $35,000.00 to Scientology in 2009 according to Scientology’s Cornerstone Newsletter, for one. That’s a fact.

    In 2009, Neil Gaiman interviewed with Scientology friendly Dana Goodyear for the New York Times, where he made a lame and arrogant attempt to quash his Scientology connection, (after having just paid them
    $35,000.00). Gaiman also defended the cult saying “I will stand with groups when I feel like they’re being properly persecuted,” he told me (Goodyear).”

    Mary Gaiman is fully funded by Neil Gaiman, not only by alimony and child support but through their jointly owned venture, The Blank Corporation. She donated $500,000.00 to the Super Powers org in 2010.

    You also declined to mention that The Gaimans own ‘G and G Vitamins’ receiving a handsome profit (6 million annually) from selling the huge vitamin doses for the ‘purification rundowns.’ This is Neil Gaiman’s inheritance and it is a Scientology institution.

    You also negected to mention Amanda Palmer’s father Jack got married in what looks like a Sea Org uniform. He is not registered in the Navy.

    You also neglected to find out anything about Johannes Hermanus Scheepers other than the ugly slurs David Gaiman, a known liar and sociopath croaked out during the inquest to cover his tracks.

    You are also ignoring the fact that Scientologists do not fraternize with non Scientologists. As an expert on cults once put it to me, “you’re either in or you’re out.”

    I get it, you obviously like Gaiman and Palmer. But the fact is they refuse to talk about the cult. They are evasive and weird because they are involved. They still pay Scientology and take their tax breaks. Maybe they don’t like it, but the fact is they remain silent.

    And there’s a word for people who don’t speak out against injustice… Cowards.

    • TonyOrtega

      Yes, this is the litany of poorly-sourced half-evidence that keeps these issues alive on WWP, and part of the reason why I’ve tried to stick with facts that can be verified. For a couple of years now, these half-facts have been repeated ad nauseum, and despite that no one with any credibility has come forward to offer any corroboration of them.

      Neil Gaiman’s involvement in Scientology ended in the 1980s, as far as I’ve been able to determine. He and Mary McGrath filed for divorce in 2007 and it was finalized in 2008. In a 2009 church newsletter, there’s a listing of a donation of $35,000 by “Neil and Mary Gaiman.” As I indicated in the story, I’ve seen no convincing evidence that Neil actually had anything to do with it, and that it was listed that way even though Mary gave the money. And yes, she has continued to give money to the church, but blaming Neil for that is seriously reaching. They’re divorced. She can spend her money any way she wants.

      The Jack Palmer thing with the uniform is just stupid. Longtime Sea Org members have looked at that photograph and say without hesitation that what he’s wearing is not a Sea Org uniform. And that should give you some indication of the level of “evidence” we’re dealing with here. Even though no one who was in the Sea Org identifies Jack Palmer or any other member of Amanda Palmer’s family as Sea Org, staff, or public, one photograph of a man in a white uniform makes her entire family Sea Org? Please.

      I pointed out that G&G is lucrative, and that Sheila Gaiman, who owns it, donates heavily to the church. And one of the main points of this article is that Neil Gaiman is surrounded by family members who are fanatical believers and donate heavily. So no, I did not “fail” to point that out.

      Dana Goodyear’s story on Gaiman was in the New Yorker, and it was in 2010, and yes, she did ask him softball questions about Scientology. So what? It’s already pretty clear that Neil is not interested in saying a bad word about Scientology, and for obvious reasons. Again, that was in this story.

      There is a fascinating story about Neil Gaiman growing up in Scientology and dealing with the fact that his entire family is still in. But these ravings about how he’s somehow secretly fueling the church and then calling him names is a lot less interesting and a lot more tin foil.

      • media_lush

        Slightly off tangent but I first became intrigued with Neil Gaiman when I found out he was officially listed as Jonathon Ross’s [quite famous UK chat show host/DJ etc] best friend. I got into quite a twitter war with Ross when I asked him if he was a scientologist as I came across an obscure web tidbit that he was a closet and had annual Florida holidays in Clearwater. He denied it but then went quite defensive about how anyone was allowed to believe what they liked…. I countered with you should read ex scientology kids website …. To cut a long story short he banned me from his twitter feed….it caused quite a little stink and I got loads of tweets supporting me and supporting him all with the Scientology tag….anyway, I have a certain satisfaction in that he never really got A list guests on his show and his ratings are crap and getting worse (even his ‘buddy’ Tom Cruise chose known homosexual Graeme Norton to promote Oblivion) after that (there’s a fair chance I might be kidding myself here but it pleases me to believe this, lol).

        Anyway, I came across a lot of little bits and bobs as I was doing searches on this and even had people message me directly that Gaiman was still “officially” in but was allowed to be non-practising because of the amount of money he donates.

        I kind of agree with the you’re either in or out argument with scientology made above… you can’t be a little bit pregnant. Being cleverer than the average scion he might just be denying purely as a financial consideration…. imagine how his sales would be affected if he DID admit still being in the cult. It would be nice to know for certain.

      • rosie

        You did write a fascinating story about his background and the most comprehensive to date, so kudos.

        But the 2009 donation by Neil Gaiman which makes him a Cornerstone member is NOT poorly sourced! The data of Neil Gaiman’s $35,000.00 donation in 2009 is posted on exscientology board here:

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16197-142-million-plus-given-to-Super-Power-Scam

        Neil Gaiman’s name is clearly listed and you can easily go download this if you wanted to which apparently you can’t be bothered to do.

        Neil Gaiman paid money into the cult as late as 2009 and that is a fact, not speculation.

        How did his name magically appear in Scientology’s own records, Tony? Are you saying that someone else listed him there without his knowledge?

        You are also ignoring copious amounts of testimony that Scientologists are not allowed to associate with outsiders. They disconnect from apostates as you’ve pointed out a thousand times yourself. So why is Gaiman allowed to be out and in direct connection to his siblings?

        As you well know, Will Smith denies being a Scientologist but pays into the cult and has created a school. So what is your definition of being involved in the cult? Pay the cult and just say you’re not in and apparently that’s okay by you? If Neil Gaiman benefits from the revenue of G&G Vitamins, isn’t he paying into the cult? Is it noble to sell toxic vitamins to victims?

        The fact is that most of the questions people have for Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer, who spend 90% of their time pursuing public notoriety, could be cleared up by a simple statement but they refuse to answer. How do you know no one identifies Jack Palmer as Sea Org, have you asked the Sea Org?

        Scientologists are liars and are trained to lie to the press. Why should we believe anything Gaiman says at this point?

  • DodoTheLaser

    Neil Gaiman is an Ex in a closet, imho.
    I can smell it. Plus he is kind and intelligent.
    Also, his hair.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Just an anecdote from my life.

    I briefly met David Gaiman in Moscow, in summer of 1994.

    He was in Russia establishing Narconon, I think. Who knows.

    I was at the Sea Org base on Galushkina Street, getting trained as a Supervisor.

    It was a break time (snacks and smokes) and David came out of the bathroom -
    he looked like he was in his late 60′s, tall, gray hair, his nose, summer white shirt,
    white pants with piss drops on them and a silver clear bracelet on his arm.

    I think the reason I remember it so vividly is because he was the first person wearing
    Clear bracelet I’ve met. I’ve only seen them in scientology magazines before that.

    I didn’t even know who he was at the time. I just knew he is Clear!!!

    So I said – “Hello!” David smiled at me fatherly and greeted me too.

    I think I told him that I’m a mission trainee and he replied with “glad to meet you”.

    I think we also had a little more exchange, but it’s vague, so probably not important.

    That’s all.

  • Blair Witch

    After pointing out on endless occasions how Scientologists disconnect family members who try to leave, it’s bizarre you give Neil Gaiman a pass. Gaiman is obviously very much involved with Scientology.

  • Cass Roman

    This isn’t the exorcism.
    For that, you have to find “Other People” from one of the short story collections.
    The devil’s torture sounds a lot like “problems release”.
    http://holdinghandswithhades.edublogs.org/seven-deadly-sins-part-7-the-others-by-neil-gaiman/

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