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Scientology Ordered to Turn Over Confidential Files in Forced-Abortion Lawsuit

Laura_DecrescenzoLaura DeCrescenzo let us know there’s been an interesting break in her years-long lawsuit against the Church of Scientology. She’s suing because during the time she was a worker in the Sea Org — which prohibits its members from having children — she says she was forced to have an abortion, a claim that numerous other former Sea Org workers have also made. (See our previous story about her complex lawsuit.)

The church has argued back that DeCrescenzo took too long to bring her lawsuit after she left the Sea Org, and it has also fought every request to turn over her confidential “pc folders,” which contain detailed information about her time in the church.

But now Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Ronald M. Sohigian has put the case on hold until Scientology finally forks over those files, and he’s given the church a deadline of May 6. It’s potentially a huge new development in a case that has dragged on for years.

We checked with the court file to verify that the judge had made the order, and here’s what Laura told us about it…

“Scientology has tried three times now to get out of producing the folders, but at a hearing last week the court gave them a final order that they have to produce them, period. So they have until May 6 to either appeal the order or produce the material. It should be interesting. The judge canceled the dates for trial and for hearing the statute of limitations issue because the church still hasn’t produced the folders,” she said. “Needless to say they aren’t happy about the ruling. They are between a rock and a hard place.”

We asked Laura what she thought the church might be dreading about the evidence being turned over.

“I have over 140 pc folders of sec checks spanning 15 years,” she says, referring to the brutal investigations — “sec checks” — that Sea Org members go through. “It’s solid evidence of my case.”

We asked our legal department, Manhattan attorney Scott Pilutik, to look over several recent motions to help us catch up on what’s been happening in the case. Here’s his update…

This tug of war over DeCrescenzo’s PC folders goes back to April 11, 2012, when she first served her discovery notice on CSI. Scientology simultaneously dragged its feet and loudly objected, of course. DeCrescenzo filed a motion to compel Scientology’s compliance, which led to a January 7, 2013 hearing at which the court gave CSI until January 18 to produce the sought-after documents, or, barring documents, a “coherent and focused privilege log.” Scientology then proceeded to produce a privilege log in which every document — 2,891 in total — were in fact privileged, providing a vague description to each.

DeCrescenzo then filed, on February 8, a second motion to compel, which besides being a great read is the motion which the court just granted. It details the frustrating teeth-pulling that comes with litigating against Scientology.

Scientology obviously saw the dispute differently, filing an opposition that can be read here. The church made several arguments, but probably the most interesting is that it shouldn’t have to turn over Laura’s folders because of priest-penitent privilege. (Her attorneys replied to those arguments here.)

Over at his blog Scott will go into this in more detail, but he tells us the church’s argument centers around asserting priest-penitent privilege when the penitent (Laura) has already waived that protection. In other words, if Laura wants her folders entered as evidence, then who is Scientology protecting by keeping them under wraps?

DeCrescenzo tells us that she’s very encouraged by the judge putting his foot down and ordering Scientology to turn over the folders.

“I think there is enough evidence in there to confirm the bazillion hours of brainwashing that occurred, starting at a very young age. That, hopefully, would negate any statute of limitations issue,” she says. But after all this time, she finds it hard to believe that the church will actually comply and turn over the evidence.

Three times in the last year, Scientology has caved and ponied up large amounts to make potentially embarrassing court cases go away. Could this order to produce evidence result in a similar collapse?

 
—————-

ANOTHER FAMILIAR FACE EMERGES FROM SCIENTOLOGY’S MECCA

Carol_NyburgFor longtime Scientologists, the name Carol Nyburg Vedder is very familiar — she was someone who would sell you accommodations, check you in, and greet you when you went to the church’s “mecca” in Clearwater, Florida for upper-level training.

For 26 years she was a Sea Org fixture — a “mini Debbie Cook” was how Karen de la Carriere described Nyburg to us.

Three years ago, however, Nyburg, like so many other dedicated, longtime Scientology lifers simply couldn’t take the harsh conditions under church leader David Miscavige and she escaped with a careful plot involving a smuggled phone, a secretly-rented car, and a cross-country bus trip. It’s all detailed in a remarkable account she posted yesterday at Steve Hall’s blog. To give you a taste of it, here’s a passage that stunned us.

A lot of attention has been paid to the hell that executives went through at “the Hole” — a sort of office-prison at Scientology’s International Base east of Los Angeles. But take a look at what Nyburg says workers were going through at the same time, a few years ago, at the Flag offices in Florida…

Another really scary thing happened during this time, it was called “Boot Camp.” This was some kind of nutty ethics program that didn’t start till after you had worked all day. So at 11 pm a group of us, all registrars like myself from all over the base, not just accommodations counselors but IAS, Freewinds, Planetary Dissemination registrars, too. There were about 15 to 20 of us. First we would do exercises. I was just turning 60 at this time. This was not an easy ordeal for me. Then we would do close order drilling. If you goofed up, you had to drop and do pushups or some such thing. Then we were taken to a renovation project that was going on at the Base somewhere and made to do some horrible job till about 2 am. We were then taken to our berthings to sleep and we had to be back in at 8:30 am for more ethics handlings and special reading assignments, then on to post, then boot camp again at 11 pm. This was my most fearful time in my entire career. The reason was because it did not follow anything I had ever read about Scientology ethics and I had no idea how it would end or what to do to ensure it would end. It finally did end. At the end I had to write up how “beneficial” it was for me and how much “better” I was doing then. Of course I just did it because I would have done anything to make sure this abuse stopped.

The sheer Kafkaesque notion of workers being kept up to 2 am for calisthenics and menial jobs — for hours after their regular jobs with insane quotas — well, it’s hard to believe that this is going on in the United States. No wonder she made a run for it. How many more will follow once her account starts to filter back into the church?

Oh, and one more anecdote we couldn’t pass up. Nyburg mentions that at one point Miscavige showed up with Mike Rinder and some other executives and wanted to inspect the Fort Harrison Hotel, including its presidential suite. But Nyburg knew that the person who lived in the suite didn’t rise until noon, and she didn’t want to disturb the person. So she simply refused Miscavige’s request, which earned her a suitably insane punishment.

We asked Rinder: Who in the 1980s was living in the presidential suite of the Fort Harrison and rose at noon? He told us it was Lamia Khashoggi (previously Laura Biancolini), the wife of Adnan Khashoggi the ultra-rich arms dealer.

Adnan himself was never a Scientologist, but he was apparently happy to keep his wife ensconced at the Fort Harrison, which would have been cheaper than keeping her in Rome or New York, Rinder points out.

We have no words.

 
—————-

KATE BORNSTEIN IS KICKING CANCER’S ASS, BUT COULD USE A HAND

KateCoverLast year, we were very pleased to write a Voice cover story about Kate Bornstein, one of New York’s most original performance artists, a well-known gender activist, and a former first mate for L. Ron Hubbard on the yacht Apollo (back when Kate was Al Bornstein).

What pleases us less is the fight that Kate has been engaged in against lung cancer. She was diagnosed in August, and after a successful surgery, the disease rallied and is giving her more trouble. The good news, however, is that her doctors tell her that it’s curable, and she’s fighting hard with a regimen of chemotherapy and diet.

In the meantime, she could use a little help. So today, she’s starting a GoFundMe site where we can all donate a little to help her out. As soon as we have the URL on that site, we’ll post it here. And please, if you haven’t yet read Kate’s amazing memoir, A Queer and Pleasant Danger, do yourself a big favor and buy a copy now.

And here’s the link to her fundraising site. Please go there!

 
—————-

SMERSH Madness: Sowing the Seeds of World Domination!

As we announced on March 1, we’re joining bracket fever with a tournament like no other. It’s up to you to decide who should be named the new SMERSH, the traditional nemesis of Scientology. Cast your vote for who’s doing more to propel the church down its long slide into oblivion!

Continuing with the Sweet Sixteen! We have a tough match today.

ESMBVsGerry

The Ex-Scientologist Message Board was founded in 2007 by Michelle “Emma” Sterling, an Australian ex-church member, as a place for people who had spent time in Scientology to find each other and compare experiences. ESMB features many fascinating people from the church’s history who talk about the good and the bad they went through, and that inviting environment allows for some mind-blowing revelations. (Previously: ESMB defeated Jamie DeWolf in the first round.)

Gerry Armstrong has paid a terrible price for a simple act: he wanted the Church of Scientology to be more honest about L. Ron Hubbard’s actual history. The former church worker was hounded by Scientology lawyers with the help of credulous courts to such a degree that he lives in Canada because he can’t set foot in the United States. All of Hubbard’s biographers, from Russell Miller to Lawrence Wright, owe a huge debt to Armstrong for finding and securing crucial original documentation of Hubbard’s life. (Previously: Armstrong defeated Jenna Miscavige Hill in the first round.)

 
Go to our March 1 post for the latest tournament results.

 
——————-

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 20, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • Observer

    Jenna Miscavige Hall? Is it demerit day? lol!

    Gerry, same reason as before. Without the dox this would be much harder.

    Oh, and Davey? Tick tock. TICK TOCK.

  • Hell yea on the ruling!

    I love Kate! Such an inspiration, I’ll happily help out 🙂

  • John P.

    Laura DeCrescenzo case: Kudos to Laura for continuing to drive the case forward in the face of ridiculous levels of foot-dragging. Discovery fights are something that an Armchair Internet Lawyer(tm) like me could not hope to predict, but I’m glad to see that she’s soldiering on. My reaction when reading about the fight and trying to think about the possibility that the cult will settle is that they seem to be comfortable attempting to commit discovery fraud. Recall that, in the Debbie Cook trial, the cult’s lead attorney denied that he had documents responsive to a motion for discovery from Debbie’s attorney, until something was going against them, at which point another attorney from a different firm produced the documents in question from his briefcase at trial. In other words, they’re shameless about denying that they have documents that help the opposing party but pulling the same documents out when they feel it’ll help their case. If Laura has a diary with dates of her auditing sessions against which production can be measured, and is able to demonstrate that the cult is non-responsive to the most recent order to produce, then she has really got them and they could have their defense gutted as the Narconon Georgia folks did. It sounds like the cult feels that they can grind her down in the meantime because they think her case is not as strong or the evidence not as damaging as in the ones they’ve settled quickly.

    Carol Nyburg: Yes, the idea of a 60-year-old grandmother forced to do calisthenics and fake military drills at midnight is yet another new low for the cult. What struck me about her story is her tenacity in being able to maintain a credit card that the cult didn’t know about via a secret P.O. Box so that she could fund her escape. I doubt that the average long-time Sea Org drone would have the presence of mind to be able to maintain that for so many years as Nyburg did. So while her departure may be a “mini-Debbie Cook” in getting some public to leave, it strikes me that it would be very hard for the people who need freedom most, the disaffected Sea Org slaves now kept in virtual prison camps, to follow in her footsteps and leave. It is a testament to the depths of the Scientology mindfk that she went back to “route out properly” after all that she had done to get out because she apparently believed that the “freeloader debt” was a valid obligation that she really did have to pay, when no court in the land would ever enforce it, thus putting at risk the freedom that she worked so hard to win in a remarkably well-planned escape.

    Kate Bornstein: You go, girl! Kick some more cancer ass! Big hugs and best wishes from my neighborhood!

    • FLUNK101

      My understanding is she wants her folders to prove she was brainwashed, in order to waive the statute of limitations.
      Do you know what the legal threshold is for proving you’ve been brainwashed?

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I don’t know of any, but there is a threshold for intentional infliction of emotional distress which can amount to psychological abuse of a child. In other words, terrifying a child over long periods of time is intentionally inflicting emotional distress and it forces the child to become robotic in order to deal with the abuse. Child abuse cases may have a different statute of limitations (Catholic Church cases). So if LauraD has her PC files, she may be able to prove the abuse, which led to robotic behavior, and led her to believe as an adult that she could not leave the cult. It’s a very tough thing to prove. Brainwashing and loss of free will are not recognized by the courts, yet. But courts do understand that victims of abuse often are terrorized into staying in an abusive situation.

        • Poison Ivy

          “Terrifying a child for long periods of time” – funny, how CO$ attempts to turn all its adherents into children of sorts – the clay modeling; the “hip hip hooray” chants to LRH all the damn time; to the silly dress up fundraisers, flyers for which Tony posts here on a regular basis. Childlike=Obedient.

          • villagedianne

            Yes, they infantalize their adherents, while at the same time teaching them that actual children are not really children, but are adults in smaller bodies.

            • FistOfXenu

              Perfect. So there’s no such thing as kids, just different size adults who have to take orders like kids and take beatings like adults.
              Side bonus: the Malicious Dwarf doesn’t look so out of place being so small.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      I haven’t read the details of Laura’s case, and I am certainly ignorant when it comes to legal matters, but it seems that the church is truly between a rock and a hard place as noted in today’s post.

      “The church made several arguments, but probably the most interesting is that it shouldn’t have to turn over Laura’s folders because of priest-penitent privilege.”

      Back in the day, I received my share of sec checks and I was also a certified sec checker myself as the ethics officer of the mission where I was on staff. To the best of my knowledge, these sec check sessions are not covered under the priest-penitent privilege (that is new scientology jargon that wasn’t used in the 70’s or 80’s). Every session started off with the sec checker stating to the sec checkee, “I’m not auditing you.” If auditing is called spiritual counseling by the church and auditors are called ministers, there is no spiritual counseling taking place during a sec check. For those who have not had the experience of going thru an uninvited sec check, I can tell you that there is nothing spiritual about the experience at all. Nothing.

      • Jgg2012

        Interesting. In Laura’s case, it’s religious. In the Narconon case, the exact same
        thing is secular and treats drug addiction.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Age is no excuse for not doing vigorous calisthenics after a fourteen hour workday.

      COB will often exercise in the nude after a long day of work.

      He likes to work out with his trainer Ted in front of the mirrors in his training room.

      Ted just got a new tattoo that COB thinks is bitchen:

      http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/sadhu77/DMLoclerroom.png

      • Captain Howdy

        Wow, David Cronenberg would be impressed.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        That is a pretty cool tat. Is that you, OTVIII?

        But David could never sit still for something like that, could he? He’d have to slap a lot of underlings before it was over!

        Although, he does have that lower back tattoo — a triple portrait LRH, David, and Tom, with the slogan “3 Big Beings” in fancy script. Have you in RTC seen it?

        Uh oh… am I giving away David’s secrets?!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          DM has a tramp stamp of the 3-big beings?

          • Chocolate Velvet

            It’s just a guess. But I feel pretty confident about it. 😉

          • Observer

            With his disproportionately large noggin rendered twice the size of TC’s and LRH’s.

            Have you ever noticed how freakishly large his head is for his body?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yes. He looks like a PEZ dispenser!

            • FistOfXenu

              But who’d eat what he’s spitting out? yuch!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Eew!

            • FistOfXenu

              Yep. And to think I liked Pez until you compared it to DM. In fact I still have my old Mickey Mouse dispenser along with some others from when I was little. And I have one in my pocket most days. But now, well, all I see is DM’s swollen head. 🙁

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh no’s!
              I am supposed to find your ruin!
              Not create it!

            • FistOfXenu

              You’d never succeed in $cientarCONon with a passive like that. Of course you’re supposed to create it. Invent it even. Nobody ever signed up for a billion yrs without the cold terror of total ruin in their heart!

              But it does hurt to think I may’ve eaten my last Pez.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            NO BTN NO!

            It is not a tramp stamp nor is it a fag tag!

            It is just a tattoo and shame on CV for talking about it online!

            COB read CV’s post and BTN’s entheta comment, screamed like a girl, and then ran into his bedroom and locked the door behind him.

            He is screaming and breaking things again.

            He passed us a note under the door saying that CV is banned from the COB bedroom for a billion years.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Maybe ya’ll could get OT VIII Michael Chan to help you out with those seemingly endless reno’s?
              Or replace all glass and crystal with Melamine for easier cleanup?

            • Sherbet

              Or burlwood.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Ohhh, that David, so vulnerable and emotional! That’s what I love about him. Sorry about the smashing stuff, OTVIII, but that room is tacky anyway. Do David a favor and surprise him with a new bedroom suite from IKEA or something.

              As for the note, pay no mind, he’s always saying things like that. He’s such a bossy boots!

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              NO CV NO!

              COB is not a “bossy boots” and you know better than to say things like that when COB is enturbulated!

            • Chocolate Velvet

              I’m not impressed by David’s tantrums.

              OTVIII, you tell David that the Chocolate Velvet said he better quit acting up. Or, I will give him the whoopin’ his mama should’ve given him as a child, when he had his “attacks”.

              You in the RTC need to stop coddling David like some spoiled brat, and help him get his ethics in! Don’t make me come all the way out to the desert to handle it for you…

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              CV, we slid your note under COB’s door.

              He went silent for a moment…

              then he turned up the music:

              http://youtu.be/pF2otwl4ros

            • ….choking and peeing with laughter….

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Labelle?

              Geez, if he’s gonna go there, why doesn’t he just come out already?

              Oh well, as long as he’s stopped smashing things…

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              lol to cv!

            • Jgg2012

              OT8, why do you scream at CV? Is it because you can’t produce a single clear? Or decide if Scientology is a science or a religion?

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Our former spokesman Tommy Davis got a tattoo of the Sea Org crest. COB saw it and ridged. He asked Tommy who gave him “Issue Authority” to use a trademarked Scientology symbol.

          The point is that only COB RTC has Issue Authority and Tommy did not get COB’s permission to be tattooed using a trademark.

          There was a big flap and Tommy was put in lower conditions.

          As for we in RTC, no that is not our tattoo. That is Ted’s tattoo.

          We in RTC are all pasty, have no tattoos, and work obsessively to Clear the Planet.

          When we are not Clearing the Planet we like to enturbulate OT’s and watch them squirm:

          http://otviiisgrrr8.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/ideal-orgs-111.png

      • Sherbet

        OT8, why is Ted, DM’s trainer, naked? What’s DM training for, anyway?

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          That is the way COB rolls.

          • Sherbet

            Sticking pins in my eyes. I don’t want to imagine COB training with Ted.

            • FistOfXenu

              Can’t you just hear Ted and COB taking turns saying to each other “Here comes the big choo-choo!”

              Oh hell, that’s even worse now.

          • FistOfXenu

            Rolls, you say? COB rolls naked. With Ted. Oh hell.

          • grundoon

            That’s the way COB bounces and flops.

    • jensting

      Well, their lawyers are micromanaged by David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige (according to people who are happy to testify so in court), so if the lawyers commit fraud maybe they’re just obeying orders [tm]. Not that this should make it OK, but who’s paying attention? (Hello!! IRS…)

  • FLUNK101

    Laura had 140 folders of sec checks??? How many sec checks is that? 1000? I had one sec check in my (relatively short) career as a clam. And that one left me in tears.

    • 140 folders of sec checks? That is severe psychological abuse. Torture, plain and simple.

      • Poison Ivy

        Jenna describes the daunting amount of sec checks she had to undergo when her parents left the cult (and at first, she had no idea why!). Definitely torture.

    • richelieu jr

      One folder of Sec Checks is worth how many Binders of Women?

      (I used to be a binder foof women, but now I just tie them loosely so they know they can escape if they want to…)

      • I had 7 years of Security Checks on OT 7 as a public….I think my folders go up to 175 or s/t. Were they ALL Sec Checks? No…but many were. It IS severe psychological abuse: well put, SynthiaEF! Thanks, Tony O for another one.

        As much as I love ESMB—there wouldn’t be a web site where “Ex members” could share stories w/ out Gerry first exposing the falsehoods of Hubbard, imnsho. He got the ball rolling, demonstrating great courage when there was really zero support.

        I think OCMB and EXMB both deserve awards in a separate category as do the media, (which you know includes you, Tony! Hell, I gave you an award for “Courage in Journalism” back in the early 2000’s)! Really everyone who has kicked serious ASS, which is many here, deserve special awards. You know who you are. 🙂 Courage is something that takes action and is also s/t no one can take away from you. I am greatly thankful for every single person who has demonstrated courage in big ways or even small ways: It ALL counts. And the beat rolls on….:) Tick TOCK! Tory/Magoo

    • FLUNK101

      Let me explain what I mean when I say the sec check left me in tears.
      I wanted to confess! I happily confessed to things I’d done that I thought were wrong.
      The MA (Master At Arms / Ethics Officer) asked me what else I ‘d done!
      I felt a willingness to explore that, but I couldn’t ‘t think of anything. 
      He kept grinding me for more, with me wanting, but not able to answer. 
      The “vibe ” was like he knew there was more … because he saw it “read ” on the e-meter. He was using this to exploit my own sense of right and wrong to the point where it turned my soul inside-out. I broke down and cried.

      • DeElizabethan

        Dear Flunk, I know what you mean by tears with an ethics officer. A read on the meter was probably a protest read but they dismiss those. One time I couldn’t come up with more and he gave me a Happiness’ book and said read this to help me come up with more for the next day. Exploiting to be sure. I eventually caved in and the public dept. saw my state and got me to do a correction list with my item being ‘gone on too long’

        • BuryTheNuts2

          So basically the e-meter reads a “protest read” which is the exact opposite of what is actually true as that person has already given up everything plus more and the fine human being doing the sec-check interprets that as a reason to grind what is left of this person into dust.
          Because after all, we all know the e-meter and it’s 14.95 worth of junk electronics is godlike in its infallibility.

          NICE!

          • FLUNK101

            YEAH!
            You see all the angles.
            Dang, BTN!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am just sorry for every single one of you who has ever had to endure a sec-check.
              It is criminal.
              And if it is not criminal…it is immoral.
              And that is even worse!
              I just cannot comprehend WHY they would want to do that to someone?
              It is smoke without the mirrors.

              Ok, my medicine must have kicked in because ^^^ that was a delusional statement on my part.

              WHY?
              blackmail
              control
              shame
              fear
              compliance
              conditioning

              Did I mention Control?

            • FLUNK101

              Thank you, BTN.

          • DeElizabethan

            Then they have the ‘dirty needle’ which could mean other things, you’re unhappy or upset with the person or you’re holding something back. I’m sure I could beat the meter now with lots of lies.

  • 0tessa

    Mr. Ortega, I want to give you a big THANK YOU for all the work you do with this website. You never fail to amaze me with the quantity and quality of your news gathering. History will show how important this all will have been in our fight against this evil cult.
    My vote goes to Gerry Armstrong. He paid a high price for our freedom.
    For me Mr. Ortega definitely is the primus inter pares.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      I second that. Mr Tony Ortega is a journalist in the finest sense of the word.

      • FLUNK101

        Big improvement in the AV department. That combative bitch had to go!

        • FLUNK101

          I hated that picture with the c-cup boobs and the ray-gun. What are we men supposed to think?

  • Peter Robinson

    One shame is how long the legal process takes to unwind. Given that Laura first applied for disclosure of the files back in April last year, and that CSI has now until May to produce, this stringing out of such cases is always in favour of the defendant i.e. wearing down the plaintiff. If only the Judge could expedite this. Quite why CSI should be given so long to respond baffles me. Since they had to already gather all the docs to produce their ridiculous and redacted privilege log surely they should be given no more than a few days to respond.

    These interminable delays just end up adding to the costs of such litigation, both financially and in the strain it puts on plaintiffs. Just hope she wins in the end! Preferably without settlement!

    • Poison Ivy

      Good points, Peter. I hope in the future, CO$ is made to produce discovery in as timely manner as any defendant.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    There is a sea change in the US regarding the church. In 2009, Laura D’s case was dismissed and 2011 it was reinstated after an appeals court reversed the dismissal. Now, in 2013 all the church is getting is bad news. After decades of church-instigated litigation wars, the church is shocked that courts are no longer cowering or buying their stories. Even if they settle with Laura, there is California precedent that PC files are discoverable. There will be more lawsuits, and the church will be in deep trouble. The church has gone on the record in this case and stated that PC files are kept going back decades, at least. In the next case, or cases, a defense that the PC files are not kept will lead to the conclusion that PC files were destroyed to avoid discovery. And there you have the near future of the church: lawsuits, court sanctions, criminal indictments, fleeing members (and lawyers), and destruction of religious documents. What a mess.

    • Bob

      It should be called the church of hypocrisy. They having no compunctions about revealing information in an ex’s PC folder if they want yo trash that person. But they then turn around and cry minister/parishioner privilege. That is absurd.

      • Missionary Kid

        I agree, Bob, but would add that you’re being too kind. 🙂

    • RMycroft

      CoS has always fought hard and dirty to avoid revealing folders.

      Brother wants answers on Scientologist’s suicide November 23, 2009, Emma Rodgers, ABC News (Australia)
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/23/2750746.htm

      Scientologists fighting to keep files secret August 6, 1998, Thomas C. Tobin, St. Petersburg Times
      http://www.sptimes.com/TampaBay/80698/Scientologists_fighti.html

      The Ontario Snow White case had long battles over folders, and that spun-off into the Hill v. Scientology libel case.

      With sec-check folders, they definitely have a problem because those shouldn’t be covered by any kind of religious privilege fig-leaf. Don’t those sessions start with the interrogator stating “I am not auditing you”?

  • Cymboli Starsong

    I personally think they are going to attempt to hide behind pastoral privelege even though the parishoner is making the request. Even if the $cilons do agree to cough up the folder, it will be obfuscated to the point where the court will have a hard time making heads or tails of it. Hubbard was the grand master of obfuscation and that is skill which has been passed down to the sheep that continue to applaud him daily.

  • About Laura D’s files, I think there was a poster a few months back who said it was his full-time job to shred documents for Scientology, so who knows if the files are even there. Also, about the coerced abortions, what would happen if Scientology admitted something lesser, like a counselor did suggest it, but no one forced anyone. While morally reprehensible, is it illegal? Sorry if I sound negative, just trying to find out the legal footing here. Everyone knows they hounded, brainwashed and used undue influence.
    Another legal issue here to me is how can you tell someone you can’t work here if you have children, how can that be legal, or is it the religious exception again.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      It was Derek. He said they put them on shredding files for 16 hour days.

      • …until his snot was rainbow-colored from all the different kinds of paper.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yep….direct quote.
          You must have these memory issues too!
          haha

          • A visual like that is hard to flush from my head.

    • They force abortions on public too. Since the father of my baby (my auditor) had been sent to Anchorage to save the planet, and I was on lines in L.A. I was told I would be declared an es-pee if I pulled him off post by having a baby. I was going to raise the baby alone but that would put the future of the planet in danger in its own way because I would be deterred from finishing up my own class one internship. The “father” denied it could ever possibly even be his child, and got an arc break session and was all shiny and handled about the entire situation. Yes, I suppose no one held me down and forced me into the abortion clinic. I went “willingly” and even paid for the procedure myself, because I had caused the “liability” to the group, and the “father” was all upstat auditing for free while Anchorage pocketed the exorbitant prices charged for counseling. When I went back on course (the very next day) I was pulled into ethics and told my certifications were going to be cancelled and given a reference out of “science of survival” that points out abortion as a suppressive act. I FLIPPED… All of this nightmare exists somewhere in my PC folders too. I have always wondered how many public have been put through this? Because conveniently, one is not allowed to discuss these “entheta” situations with other Scientologists. And you’d be in even worse hot water for speaking to a mere “wog” about such a thing. that would be black PR. I guess now that I have a daughter who is the same age I was when all of this happened, I can hope to find some forgiveness for my younger self. but in all honesty I don’t think I will ever entirely be able to let that go. I hate who I was and what I did. I have made other mistakes for sure, but the ones I made on my own determinism fade away after a while. This situation was full of so much force and coercion, it’s just unforgivable on so many levels. You go Laura! There isn’t enough money in the world to right the wrongs that have been done to you. But it wouldn’t hurt them to try for once. They need some of their own medicine back. Auntie Kate, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

      • Observer

        “I was pulled into ethics and told my certifications were going to be cancelled and given a reference out of “science of survival” that points out abortion as a suppressive act.” Hmmm, wasn’t LRH supposed to have performed at least one coat-hanger abortion on Polly? So Source was suppressive before he started putting that label on others.

        Victoria, I wish I knew some magic words that would take the guilt away. All I can say is that I understand how you came to believe it was necessary, that I feel only empathy for you, and that I hope you can find peace. Hugs.

        • I never expected to be so relieved about this, but these comments have meant so much. I can’t quite explain how much better I feel. You guys are such a great group of friends. I will be happy when that last little bit of programming falls away. “Oh you’re “motivating” you’re being a “victim”… seems like a lot of that has fallen by the wayside today. SCN. the onion from hell!

          • DeElizabethan

            I feel and understand Laura’s pain and Victoria I’m by your side too.

            • thank you. I am really impressed when I google women and scientology. we are SO winning.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Aaaaaaaagggggghhhhh!!! Victoria, I’m with Observer on this.. You need to channel all that self doubt into determination to see co$ pay for it’s crimes against innocents.. You were coerced into your decision.. You never stood a chance.. And the “ethical” auditor who took advantage of you in the first place? Wonder how many other idealistic young pc’s he “audited” and then denied.. It’s long past time for you to forgive yourself..

        And to whoever gave you that down arrow? You’re a frking idiot..

        • luckily I have very little time to keep up with the response to my comments… a down arrow. oh well, the story still serves a purpose, I just have the luxury at this point of knowing you guys have my back. so many haven’t had that in the past.

      • 0tessa

        It was not your fault!

      • Poison Ivy

        I hope you can forgive yourself, Victoria. You were controlled and manipulated and yes, ‘brainwashed’ by the very best in the field. They were tops at what they did – they knew just how to pull your strings. That is their business! You had no idea the kind of control they had over your mind and soul. I am sure there are many others who have similar regrets, but please don’t allow yourself to take the blame for what an evil organization did. You are out now, and you are helping to destroy the evil that tried to destroy you. That is amends enough.

        • I hope someday the story of how many “public” women, men children were coerced in every which way. Wow, did I just have a cognition? LOL. Uhhh, that’s what we are doing here! I actually feel a lot better. you guys are awesome!

          • FistOfXenu

            😀
            There you go Victoria. Welcome to the Bunker for real. Everybody has a bit of the story to tell. Some can tell their whole bit now, some have to wait and only give it out little at a time. But the whole story IS coming out and now you’re a part of it.

      • Trustmeonthis

        OMG, Victoria, I am so so sorry that this happened to you. And so glad that you got out and have a lovely daughter. This stuff is so heartbreaking and infuriating!

        • You guys, thank you all so much. I feel so much better that I wrote that. So many before me spoke up, and I know it doesn’t feel good at all. But they keep at it, and for each one I hope it relieves the burden for others. This makes it real power, not a fake formula.

      • jojo neal

        Victoria –
        Honey, Those bastards. You’ve been thru hell with your hat off . Please, please don’t hate yourself –
        that directs energy away from the ones who deserve it. You’re here, you’re telling the truth and putting it out there ( and it must have been hard to share this, so you’re courageous.)
        As my spouse says when I get down on myself, “Be good to my friend!”

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Great way to put that!

          • jojo neal

            Yes, that phrase has set me right many times. Women tend to attack themselves instead of the real culprits, ever noticed? I hope Victoria and all the other victims can catch themselves and refocus. It’s hard to rewire that reflex, but it can be done.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, that is something to remember.
              Thanks for that one.

        • oh thank you. I still want to “save a planet” and I am happy to have a much more realistic view of what I can contribute. tony and his readers have really pulled me out of the web of deception. every little bit helps.

          • jojo neal

            You are contributing right now. Courage and honesty are hallmarks of a true”Big Being”.

          • Missionary Kid

            Don’t reply. The best thing we can do to save the planet is to rid it of Co$ and its many forms.

      • aquaclara

        Victoria, please do listen to all these heartfelt comments from all of your supporters. It wasn’t your fault. In any way. The nightmare you were in was one you couldn’t control – who can fight the “save the planet” line when they have been told that is the most important goal in life? What was done to you was so unforgiveable.
        Alonzo posted today about room for a few more lawyers. In truth, there should be a suit for people to get their damn papers back and out of the hands of the cult. It doesn’t fix what happened, but might make some people feel a little safer.
        Sending hugs your way. Sorry for the hell you were put through.

        • thank you for that. I have trouble keeping up with the comment responses here… so odd that you one came right to the top of the list. I felt yucky all day for even writing that, but I feel compelled because this should never happen to any other woman, EVER.

          • aquaclara

            I am so glad you did write – and every woman who is on this blog probably feels the same way. It was not your fault. NOT. NOT. NOT. It could have been any one of us under those same circumstances. This should not happen to anyone. Ever. Again.
            Keep reading all the good notes here today, and look at all the up votes – those are ALL hugs for you.
            And then we shall continue to figure out how to wipe the planet clean of the SOB COB and his cult. Last ones left may be Davey and the cult lawyers, and I’m confident the Anons will know how to have a little fun with them.

          • FistOfXenu

            Victoria, I can’t get all touchy feely with you and offer you hugs and women’s solidarity and all that but as an old fashioned man I can tell you what happened to you was WRONG. It was done to you and you can’t let $cientarCONon’s lies dump the blame on you. The blame belongs to them and for your own sake and for the sake of people that love you you need to leave the blame on the cult. I guess this’ll take you time. Be patient with yourself. You’ll get it straight in your mind with time. And I bet there are plenty of people here who can talk plain sense to you about what happened to you and help you with it. Just ask. But don’t carry the guilt and don’t beat yourself up.

  • nexibello

    Gerry Armstrong. With ESMB towering over him. It’s like one lonely David and a Goliath-sized-figure made out of many Davids walking at different times in the same direction, fighting the same enemy….

  • The Dakini

    Tony, I haven’t even read the article yet but THAT IS THE BEST HEADLINE I have ever awoken too.

    • Trustmeonthis

      Yeah, this should be good no matter what happens.

  • BosonStark

    I just read Carol Vedder’s full story on Steve Hall’s blog. Wow — loses her husband (divorced), and more or less her two children, and soldiers on in the Sea Org alone. Then gets out. To this day, still thinks “LRH policy” isn’t being followed and the clams are the only ones who can save the planet?

    Finally, too much abuse (like boot camp) gets her out. But really! She routes out “properly” and is left $50,000 in debt from buying sets of Basics etc. on her way out, declares bankruptcy — so tax payers can pick up that tab.

    The encouraging part of her story, to me, was that she got on the Internet at the public library, where insanely, a guard from Flag must be placed, so that Sea Org members don’t go on the Internet and find the truth! Who knows, maybe the guard at the library will be get on the Internet himself one day, unless Flag puts two guards at he library, so they police each other. That library should be checked for wireless cameras, trained on the computer areas.

    Good to see Steve Hall’s Wahhabi KSW wing of indie nutters picking up some steam, as Marty’s schism was due for a schism.

    • A GAURD at the library to block people from knowlege? Seriously??? That’s some real Orwellian symbolism!!

    • John P.

      Maybe the guard at the library will be get on the Internet himself one day, unless Flag puts two guards at he library, so they police each other.

      Yet again, parallels between Scientology and North Korea. At the Panmunjom complex, where there are buildings straddling the border for meetings between the North Koreans and the South Koreans, the guards from the North Korean side are always posted in pairs, facing each other, so if one tries to defect by sprinting across the line, the other one can shoot him; the ROK or US guards are always single.

      Incidentally, the North Koreans have a height disadvantage versus the South Koreans and the Americans. The guards on the south of the line are chosen for being at least 5’10” and are expected to spend lots of time in the gym, to be physically intimidating. The North Korean army recently revised its draft medical standards, lowering the minimum height of conscripts to approximately 4’6″, since a generation of malnutrition has dramatically reduced the number of males above the former 4’9″ height requirement. Perhaps an Ideal Org Pyongyang would allow Miscavige to feel himself a giant among men…

      • FLUNK101

        This reminds me of an interesting story you once told about “Shin Bet,” Netanyahu’s security detail. You said they looked like kids … but they are deadly and not to be underestimated.
        The North Korean soldiers are so malnourished that they lowered the minimum height requirement to 4’6″? Those guards are frightening to me as well, but only because I read “Escape From Camp 14,” and it scares me how low the North Koreans can go with their inhumanity to each other.
        It’s an apt analogy for Scientology and the “tiny being” it has for a leader.

      • Captain Howdy

        Kim Jong-un is supposedly 5′ 9″, so little davey and his pet monkey would be little beings compared to Fearless Leader.

        • FLUNK101

          We both made the same “height-joke” about Davey, within a minute of each other!
          I usually stay away from height jokes because I’m so tall.
          You’re 6’2″, right?
          I’m 6’6″, but I am sure that you, Captain Howdy, are the “bigger being.”

          • Captain Howdy

            “Bigger Bean” is moar leik it. I’m so full of shit my eyes are turning brown, as my old man was so fond of telling me.

      • Ze Moo

        A friend of mine did 30 years in the Air Force and AF reserves. He spent his ‘summer vacation’ on duty as a photo interpreter in South Korea. The North Koreans couldn’t buy underwear or socks for their fighter pilots. All the money went to locally made weapons of dubious quality.

        Defectors all told the same story, offer any NK troops (not their special forces nutjobs) a decent meal and they’d all surrender. The current bluster and insanity is just KIm Jong Un putting his stamp on the new regime. If you think CO$ is good at brainwashing, North Korea is the gold standard and they are very afraid of the whole thing falling apart. Just like their CO$ friends. What is the height requirement for 3rd generation Sea Ogres??

    • Ze Moo

      A guard at a public library? Who on the library staff allows that?

      • Missionary Kid

        I assumed they’re there to snitch, which is their right.

  • Without Gerry Armstrong there would have been no detailed biographical data about LRH apon which Messiah or Madman, Bare-Faced Messiah or Piece of Blue Sky would hav been based.

    On the abortion issue. Scientology is the ONLY religion I’ve heard of that tells women they should have abortions. This needs to be more widely known, as even the Pro Choice crowd would find the idea of coerced abortions repugnent. This issue alone could lead to the church being reformed. 60 Minutes & other news outlets need to be told about this.

    • Poison Ivy

      The word ‘choice’ in pro-choice is there for a reason. Any person who presumes to order a woman to doing something to her body that she objects to is by definition anti-choice. The idea of coerced abortions is worse than repugnant, it is soul-killing.

  • sharon brown

    Today’s choice was a little hard, as ESMB has given Ex- Hubsters, and observers a place to be heard and Know they’re Not alone . But again, Gerry’s the man that just wanted the “church” to tell the truth re: LRH and opened the Pandora’s box, which started a trikle in the dam which has caused the Floodgates to now be fully open in the past years !!! Kate, you’re a “Bad Mother, shut your mouth ” ! (Shaft theme song ! lol) therefore my bets on you Girl , that cancer better run ! I’m Still Amazed with the tactics $ci continues to be able to use in dealing with our judicial system further adding injury to those they’ve Already mentally, emotionally and physically have harmed. smh
    . I hope they are Forced to go to court so their $cam can be seen by a Greater percentage of the ” wog” world for what it Really Is ! Best of Luck Ms. DeCrescenzo!

  • InTheNameOfXenu

    Scientology’s legal arena is showing large scale cracks in their armor. A lot what we’re seeing now couldn’t have happened 10 years ago when Miscavige had his bulldogs, Rathbun and Rinder enforcing Hubbard’s ‘fair-game’ doctrine.

    All the efforts of good will people like Paulette Cooper, Gerry Armstrong, Bob Minton and others have had great impact and effect on Scientology’s effort to oppress.

    2012 and 2013 have been disastrous years for the cult and the worse is yet to come.

    • Poison Ivy

      Miscavige’s own “ruin” is in his fear of being surpassed or dominated or outdone in any area. Thus, the dedicated and talented execs – the Rathbuns, Rinders, Cooks, Nyburgs, Jentzens, etc. etc. ad nauseum – all either sentenced to The Hole or driven out of the church by abuse – leave him as the sole decision maker with no qualified support. And his decisions are pretty awful across the board lately. He is surrounded only by people too terrified of him to ever tell him the truth. He has no outside world perspective, therefore he can’t recognize how every day he damns Scientology more and more in the eyes of the world.
      Keep it up, Davey. You may end up the SMERSH king yourself!

      • sketto

        I still believe that there are mini Miscaviges, trained to think like that paranoid charlatan Hubbard who would likely stay the course if Daveyboy was ever brought down.

        I still expect Scientology’s true believers to “stay true to Ron” and continue the con. Why wouldn’t they? Rathbun has shown that it still makes money. But, as everyone not in the cult can clearly see, the worst elements of the whole awful business are latent in Scientology itself, not solely in that prick Miscavige.

        • Poison Ivy

          I don’t know how much money Marty is really making. Certainly not enough to run a large scale scam. And you may well be right; there may be mini-Miscaviges (what an image!) in the wings…what about the guy who writes all his grammatically-challenged speeches (forget his name?) He seems to have lasted through a lot of regimes…and from what I’ve read, is as Machiavellian as the main man. What ever happened to Greg Wilhere? Or maybe Tommy Davis could come back and take it over!

          • InTheNameOfXenu

            His name is Dan Sherman or as Ortega calls him, ‘The Mullet’.

      • Missionary Kid

        Ultimately, LRH and DM are $cientology’s biggest enemies, IMHO. It’s evil standing on the shoulders of eivil.

  • FistOfXenu

    Genuinely tough choice today. I find myself asking 2 questions. Would there still be an ESMB if Armstrong hadn’t ripped the lid off the scam, and if there was would it do more damage to $cientarCONon than Armstrong?

    For the 1st question the best answer I come up with is maybe but maybe not yet. Without Armstrong I figure everything that comes after him happens maybe 10 years later or maybe more and most of the stuff that happens anyway without Armstrong isn’t as effective. In my head it’s like a chain reaction where Armstrong uncovers important data that makes things possible that make other things possible and on and on until we get to now. Take out Armstrong and how much would’ve still happened?

    So for the 2nd question I figure sooner or later ex-members get together a message board but would they still do it by 2007? What if the chain reaction caused by Armstrong’s revelations that is responsible for ex-members being able to be so public? Or maybe there’s still ESMB by now but it’s not as strong without the amazing documentation he gave us plus all the stuff that happened because of Armstrong’s documentation, so they aren’t doing much damage yet.

    That’s as far as I get. I’ll probably end up voting for Armstrong on that unless somebody convinces me I’ve missed out somewhere.

    • Snuzey

      Just the sort of circles I find myself getting into!

    • I think in terms of who is doing more damage going forward. Thus I didn’t vote for Katie Holmes either time because she did her bit and intends doing no more.

      • Observer

        Yep.

  • FistOfXenu

    Just reread the story about Adnan Khashoggi’s wife staying in the presidential suite. Nyburg should’ve let Miscavige into the suite. I’m imagining the wife complaining to her husband. Next thing you know her husband’s towering over DM and saying something appropriately terrifying to little Davey about giving him an RPG suppository and leaving tiny fists shaking and standing in a puddle of his own piss.

    • Captain Howdy

      According to “stuff” on the webs, Khashoggi’s second wife, daughter and son were scientologists.

      “Khashoggi’s daughter Nabila, his former wife Lamia Khashoggi (formerly Laura Biancolini) and Ali Khashoggi are high level members of the Church of Scientology.”

      http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/international-arms-dealer.htm

      • sugarplumfairy

        Now, that is one scary rabbit hole..

        • Captain Howdy

          I’m thinking maybe now we know where DM got all the guns and explosives that Jesse Prince said he saw delivered to Gold Base…if that’s true.

          • Poison Ivy

            Yikes. You got be scared, Capt. That would be a way for them to get weaponry behind the back of the ATF (something Khashoggi was a master at doing.)

      • DeElizabethan

        Holy smoke!

    • 10oriocookies

      I used to play scrabble with Adnan’s son. He was one of the nicest guys ive met. Imagine having 50 people working at your house. The church would be smart not to mess with this family.

    • If Nyburg had let DM in and disturbed the guest, she would have been sent to RPF for allowing that to happen.

      • Observer

        Scientology: damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Many wealthy people dump their unwanted and troublesome spouses or children at Scientology facilities. Priscilla Presley use to drop Lisa Marie on the steps of CC Int with a few suitcases and then drive away.

      The Church of Scientology: We’re here to help the wealthy handle unwanted relatives!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        How about the middle class?

        Can I drop him off at Flag?
        Or would you prefer the Ft. Harrison?
        I will even drop him off with his own copy of Dianetic’s and a really ugly tie.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          $?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            $ are negotiable?
            How long will you keep him?
            Will you insist on an an out clause if he talks too much?
            ( I have found this to be the deal breaker in prior negotiations)

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              If the money is right he can babble on in session endlessly and forever. We in RTC don’t care because some auditor has to listen to him all day and we don’t.

              He can prattle all he wants and if Flag gets tired of him they will shove some choloral hydrate down his throat to make him sleep. Then they will lock him away for a few weeks in an Introspection Rundown.

              Just make the checks as big as those Adnan Khashoggi wrote and we are good to have you drop him off at Flag. Just tell him to sign everything we give and not ask any questions.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Kate Bornstein is an amazing human being. I wish her all of the physical and emotional strength she needs to get through this.
    Besides the gofundme site for a donation,… Is there a PO box or something where we can send something personal to Kate? I have something I would like to get to her.

    • Poison Ivy

      Bury! You’re Kirstie again! My favorite photo of her! Ditto your comments about Auntie Kate. She is such a unique and inspiring person. Kate, if you’re reading, the Bunker has your back!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Thanks PI…Imma keep Krustie for a while so it reminds me to get my fat butt to the gym.
        Self induced guilt can be awesome!

  • 1subgenius

    A lot can and will be done to those folders in a month.

    • Ze Moo

      There is a log of 2,891 documents, if any are withheld, the judge may go ballistic. I would enjoy reading about that. Lets hope the judge isn’t ask to allow redacted documents, just going through almost 3 thousand docs will take a year.

      • Sherbet

        That’s right. cos has already admitted to having all those documents, so how can they conveniently disappear?

      • FistOfXenu

        They won’t withhold. They’ll decorate the dox with so much magic marker they’ll look like CIA dox being handed over to a FOIA request.

        • Ze Moo

          I don’t see how the Co$ can ask to redact. But if the hourly rate is high enough, any law firm might try.

          • FistOfXenu

            Ask? “It’s better to apologize after than ask permission before” They’ll just claim they’re protecting privacy of 3rd parties.

            • Ze Moo

              Any alteration of the documents will bring the nuclear sanctions, if Laura’s lawyers can prove alterations. Fraud and misrepresentation can get a lawyer disbarred, lets hope that threat keeps the co$ in line.

            • FistOfXenu

              I hear you but it’s all about proving it. So if they don’t do a government style blackout of stuff they still have the option to completely recreate incriminating dox. How much money did Rinder say they spent on the McPherson coverup? The Demented Midget won’t mind how many slaves he has to threaten or how hard he has to work them to get the job done in the next month.

              Shame the judge didn’t realize how quick DM can get those folders on his desk when he wants OSA to cook up a dead agent pack. A month is way too long to give the cult.

            • Missionary Kid

              If the documents aren’t in the attorney’s hands, can’t Co$ do that itself and claim it was pre-existing?
              I wouldn’t think Co$ would care much about its attorneys.

  • Laura’s pc folders will be shredded before the cult hands them over. So much for eternity, eh?

    Get well soon, Kate.

    I can’t vote in this tournament as in my opinion each opponent of the abusive and fraudulent Scientology cult brings something unique and special to the fight. To choose one over another is just a distraction. Sorry, TO, otherwise, carry on and enturbulate.

    • Poison Ivy

      They can’t shred them now because they’ve admitted they exist (plus given cursory descriptions, per Scott’s post above – FOOT BULLET!.) That would be a crime – destroying evidence. That would get them in much deeper than they already are. What I do see as a possibility is dozens of Sea Orgers being forced to undergo starvation and sleep deprivation as they re-create the documents with fictional dialogue. So convenient to have a slave labor force at your fingertips, isn’t it DM!?

  • Sherbet

    Re the DeCrescenzo case: I am positively giddy! Cos hauls out its traditional M.O. of inundating the courts with objections and irrelevant paperwork — just to bog down the case — but the court isn’t falling for it this time. This should be good!

  • jensting

    Excellent news about the lawsuit! Good for the judge, but this is probably getting settled juuust before the meeting where the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology would have to hand over some folders.

    • RMycroft

      I’d love it if they had to explain the qualifications of their “ministers” and “reverends”.
      http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/RogerRamdrive/900minuteShank_zps1adfbdfc.jpg

      • jojo neal

        Behold another example of the kids’ communication skills. It isn’t “Reverend Soandso,” it’s “THE reverend Soandso”. A clergyperson is not addressed as ‘Reverend’; it’s an adjective, not a title.
        A minor point, but damn. The major point is they can produce these alleged clergy in 900 minutes. So much for the Harvard Divinity School.

  • OMG This just in at the Daily Mail :

    Scientologists ‘facing fraud and extortion charges in Belgium after police probe into criminal organisation’
    ‘Illegal medicine, breaches of privacy and extortion charges’ have been drawn up against the Church and two senior executives
    Offices in Belgium, where it is considered a ‘cult’ have been raided
    It comes after 15 year investigation into Scientology by authorities”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2254846/Scientologists-facing-fraud-extortion-charges-Belgium-police-probe-criminal-organisation.html#ixzz2O5cRwDdd

    • TonyOrtega

      Yeah, that was the big news out of Belgium last year — that they’re treating Scientology like a fraudulent business, and staying away from the church/cult/religion stuff. You do make me wonder what the latest is.

  • Tony wrote:

    Three times in the last year, Scientology has caved and ponied up large amounts to make potentially embarrassing court cases go away. Could this order to produce evidence result in a similar collapse?

    These are the questions every legal firm, and each of their in-house attorneys, should be asking themselves right now:

    “Could WE be getting in on this HUGE CASH GIVEAWAY by the Church of Scientology?”

    “What if WE could find something to sue Scientology for?”

    “Why are all THOSE legal firms getting all the BIG BUCKS while we have to SLAVE AWAY at difficult, uncertain payouts for all that work?”

    “YOU, yes, YOU! Could probably MAKE PARTNER if you brought in a big whale like Scientology!”

    That’s right, attorneys. Why are you sitting around working your fingers to the bone when all the BIG MONEY is over at the Church of Scientology?

    This opportunity won’t last long! Ray Jeffries has already made BIG MONEY taking the Church of Scientology to court. There are plenty of Scientologists with real court cases all over the world.

    Find them and get started on YOUR ROAD TO SUCCESS AS AN ATTORNEY TODAY!

    Alanzo

    • Captain Howdy

      Michael Fairman would be perfect for the commercial. He’s much more likeable than Robert Vaughn.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Snort!

      • N. Graham

        I think William Shatner would be good.

        • Captain Howdy

          What ? I don’t mind losing to JohnP, Alanzo or Jeff Hawkins, but I’ll be damned if I’m losing out to Shatner !

          • FistOfXenu

            2nd that. There are some things that nobody should have to put up with even to beat $cientarCONon. Shatner’s pretty high on that list.

            • villagedianne

              “I’m Denny Crane!”

            • FistOfXenu

              runs screaming to coat closet, gets in, hides in the dark

    • ParticleMom

      A little self promotion…ParticleDad specializes in criminal law in MA. 😉

      Oh, how I’d love to help on the research for one of those cases!

  • Sherbet

    Yesterday’s post elicited lots of humor. Reading today’s, the roller coaster dips back down into the darkness of scn, where there are secrets and misery and emotional pain. DM aside, lrh notwithstanding, brainwashing irrelevant — one wonders exactly what it is that causes ordinary, idealistic human beings to enforce brutal and humiliating punishments and protocols on other human beings. Saving the planet through cruel exercises just to show who’s the boss? I think it all comes down to one thing: power. It starts at the top, but it filters down to all the layers of those who are in charge of other people. Oh, yes, the money and perks are good motivation for DM as they were for lrh, but what is the motivation for the enforcers at the lower layers of the cos? “I am cruel, because the people above me are cruel to me. Therefore, I take it out on those below me, and that makes me feel powerful.” What kind of a society did lrh birth out of his sick mind, to be perpetuated by DM — a society built not on ethics but of power and punishment? Did any one of the Boot Camp enforcers ever say, “These people are hurting. I’m going to send them off to bed”? The compassion seems to have been lost in the power.

    • Ze Moo

      Sherbet, you nailed it. The CO$ management system selects for sociopaths.

      • Sherbet

        Thanks, ZeMoo. It makes me wonder if the guards and other enforcers get some perverse pleasure out of watching people suffer.

        • FistOfXenu

          There are people who get perverse pleasure out of any opportunity to exercise any kind of power or authority over other people and if it causes suffering too then so much the better. $cientarCONon policy is designed to find these people and put them in positions like guards and inforcers. And OSA.

          • Sherbet

            I also understand there’s DM’s atmosphere of fear, where there are personal repercussions if the enforcers don’t stick to policy. But, still, I’m inclined to believe some people just love their jobs of intimidation.

          • Poison Ivy

            Check out the Stanford Prison experiment. http://www.prisonexp.org If you follow its results, most people are capable of that kind of behavior, given the right circumstances. Tragically.

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks PI. I did think of that and I’m sure it happens in $cientarCONon. But I was also thinking that there are some people who are naturally like that. You know like the kid in 3rd grade that liked to tape cherry bombs to small animals, that kind of thing. Or even the kid that goes to a zoo but just throws stones or pokes sticks through the bars. The school bully. Some people need the right circumstances. Some people have the right circumstances in their head.

            • Poison Ivy

              Yes, like in the Milgram experiment, 2 out of 3 increased the voltage on the charge when ordered, but one out of every 3 did not. That one out of three is the hope for mankind, IMO. As for the kid who abuses animals, yep that’s a sure sign of lack of empathy, which is a sure sign of criminal behavior. Nature vs. nurture ? (in other words, what was going on at home to inspire that kind of rage?) A question for the criminologists. But I agree with what you’re saying – there is probably something like a third who wouldn’t succumb no matter what, a third who would succumb under the right circumstances, and another third who’d say “Hell, yes, I’ve been waiting for this opportunity!”

            • Sherbet

              PI – Wow! Now I’m really depressed.

            • coonellie

              Well, if you’re already in a funk try reading, “The Sociopath Next Door.” Very enlightening.

            • Sherbet

              OK. I’ll keep a representative from big pharma on speed dial, just in case.

            • Sounds like a plan, Sherbet 🙂 Be well…and take time to smell the roses every single day. It’s an old cliche…but a damn good one. 🙂

            • Don’t let this get you depressed, Sherbet…that’s always a “win” for any enemy or people doing harm. Stay strong, we’re winning. At the least, imnsho. it’s healthier for all to stay positive FOR these survivors. Once any of us get ‘depressed’ …we are that much weaker, that much less strong for them. If you have zero control over it, I got it…but try to work on turning that around. Many, many people have. Get this book: “You Can Heal Your Life” by Louise Hay, for starters. 🙂 My 2 cents and I say this with love to you, Sherbet 🙂 Tory/Magoo

            • Sherbet

              Thank you, Tory, and hugs back atcha.

        • Captain Howdy

          Concentration camp prisoner trustees were some of the worst sadistic abusers.

          • Sherbet

            But governments can rationalize what happens in prison camps, because there are wars and declared enemies. (I’m not justifying it, but that’s what happened.) This is an alleged church with “the most ethical people on the planet” we’re talking about.

      • aquaclara

        …and underneath all that horribleness, we then get to meet the survivors –the amazing, smart and interesting exes who come out of the hell hole, bravely sharing their stories. It is the cult system and DM that are screwed up,for sure.
        Huge nods just today to the incredible trifecta of Laura De Crescenzo, Carol Nyburg Vedder, and dear Kate.
        Hope you get much better soon, Kate! We have MORE books to read, people to cheer, letters to write and signs and masks to have some fun with this year.

    • Ze Moo

      A definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. By using the unalterable Hubbtard ‘tech’ the same way, day in and day out, the CO$ has proved its insanity.

    • Missionary Kid

      Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  • N. Graham

    Tough choice today!

    • Poison Ivy

      Tony, Tony! Every one of these is a “Sophie’s Choice”! You’re killing us!

      • RMycroft

        Come on, chop the kid in half! Go for it! (What Would Solomon Do?)

        • Captain Howdy

          I scream “No, let the other guy have the kid” which means I’m the good guy and I voted for ESMB. So that means y’all have to vote likewise. See how easy it is ?

          • FistOfXenu

            I’m still waiting for somebody to convince me. 😉

  • dbloch7986

    I find it interesting that Laura’s push-back against the church’s claim to “privileged” documentation is that the information is not “confidential” because it is shared with so many people. I wonder how the law feels about a church claiming “privilege” only when it is convenient?

    The PC folders of every Scientologist change hands between an excess of 100 people during a person’s time in the church. Compare that to, say a confessional which is done in a box where you can’t see either party’s face and nothing is written down or recorded. I think the evidence code is referring to the latter.

    Regardless, if Laura is saying she wants her folders entered into evidence, then what grounds does the church have to say, “no”?

    Carol’s boot camp sounds similar to many, many, many programs that were run at PAC Base here in LA during my time in there. Close order drilling was a daily thing. Working until 2am was a daily thing. I was lucky to get 6 hours of sleep in a single night. They were always particularly hard on “reges” who are the salespeople. They were always treated like crap. I can sympathize and empathize with Carol because I am sure we share a lot of the same experiences.

    I’m glad to hear that Kate is doing well! I am so happy that she set up a Donation site for herself, she deserves it! Love you Kate!

  • Poison Ivy

    “Scientology then proceeded to produce a privilege log in which every document — 2,891 in total — were in fact privileged, providing a vague description to each.” This sounds like a foot bullet – because now Scientology has to produce all those documents. My question is, what is to prevent them (besides morality and the law – two words that are anathema to Scientology) from falsifying those documents? I don’t doubt that they are chock full of solid evidence for Laura’s case…but I just see an army of poor Sea Orgers staying up night after night making up sec check dialogue that sounds like rainbows and kittens to give the judge.

    (Cynical much? When it comes to CO$, you bet.)

    • Sherbet

      That’s a frightening scenario, PI. And, you’re right, entirely plausible.

    • Captain Howdy

      Even if they produce the documents that’s no guarantee. In the first major French case against Cof$ in the late 90’s, boxes of documents in the possession of the prosecutor’s office…”disappeared”.

      • John P.

        They use computers nowadays with redundant copies. Stuff is scanned and OCR’ed upon receipt and serial numbered. An external service is often used, or multiple backups are made. It’s a lot harder to make stuff “disappear” once it’s produced than it ever was.

        • Are_sics

          If you have virtually unlimited slave labor to comb through the docs, it would be do-able, though, no? Maybe the hardest work already done, even, having been started as soon as the first discovery motion was made?

        • Captain Howdy

          That’s reassuring and the OSA obviously ain’t what it use to be.

          • Poison Ivy

            OSA aint’ what it used to be…and it’s also way overtaxed. So many wars on so many fronts. And such a stagnant strategy.

        • Poison Ivy

          There goes the major twist in about a thousand thriller plots…

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I hope they do try something like that. It will backfire big time and I’m not going to tell them why here. But it will. It would also give one more piece of evidence of the scientology manipulation and their criminal think.

      I hope Laura can submit Carol Vedder’s story and any other details she might want to add. It clearly shows mental, physical, emotional and verbal abuse over 15 years that produced a woman who was only a bit disturbed that she lost her husband and marriage, and then both her children and then rarely even noticed. You can see every one of her dulled reactions to the abuse and that her options of how to deal with it were either limited or nonexistent. Her story includes the Stockholm syndrome where she went back after escaping. I still mentally shout “No, Don’t Go Back in There!” when I read these passages. At the very least, wouldn’t it be good to know that Homeland Security might be reading it along with the rest of us?

      • stillgrace

        THDNE, I agree totally with you regarding the backfire, and I think I know what you’re referring to. I totally support you in not mentioning the details, because DM is not smart enough to think of cause and effect by himself. Also, there’s no amount of Sea Org personnel and midnight oil that can pull this off.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It’s pretty obvious, but hey, Laura has been around this environment for a long, long time, and her lawyers will know what to look for and do. Giving a large number of SO on a project like this? The rats are jumping ship fast enough as it is. Only OSA fanatic mental cases would be assigned, and how many of Those vile creatures are left crawling around. There’s only so many of them and Miscavige must have a very long list of evil illegal and maniacal Things To Do by Thursday list. lol

          • Ze Moo

            Can Davey trust any minions to do such things and keep quiet about it? I can see large payoffs and NDA’s for any on such a project.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              this is what OSA is for…these are the real life criminals mixed in with pro enablers, or victims of blackmail, coercion. Scientolgy = not Like a mafia, Is one, just uses different weapons, has equally skilled legal vultures.

  • I want a “WOG” hat!

  • mirele

    I went with ESMB because nobody there has ever called me an OSA spy, unlike a certain Gerrior.

    And yes, I know this is mean, but frankly, the dude has a long list of people he needs to apologize to for libeling us.

    • FistOfXenu

      Ouch that hurts. I know how that feels. I bet a lot of us here know that feeling especially from the old days when everybody had to be real careful. I can tell you I was called a GO spy back in the 70s and I’ve called a few people OSA spies in my time. One of the nasty things about fighting $cientarCONon is that you just know they do this shit and they’re always worse than you think. It’s enough to make anybody paranoid. And the story of Paulette Cooper would be enough to tell you that they’d do anything and use anybody to spy on a target, even if her story was the only one like it. And it’s not. GO/OSA gave Armstrong and a lot of us a lot of good reasons for being paranoid about everybody.

      I can’t talk for Armstrong and maybe he went too far for all I know. And maybe he owes a lot of people like you apologies. I never had to talk to him so I don’t know. But we shouldn’t forget what the earliest escapees from the cult went through. It was crazy back then and dangerous. If John Sweeney thought he was scared when he did his TV shows he should’ve been around in the 70s and 80s. He’d have shit himself skinny.

      • DeElizabethan

        All of what you say is very true dear Fist.

  • Schockenawd

    Judge Sohigian is a no-nonsense, cranky judge with a capital “C.” He is legendary for evoking fear in the lawyers who come before him. Most of all, he doesn’t tolerate BS. Scientology lawyers aren’t known for being intimidated by judges, but their bullheaded tap-dancing only gets them so far, and with Judge Sohigian on the bench, Scientology’s leash in that courtroom is undoubtedly very short now.

    • Observer

      Hahaha, this made my day! I wish I could be in the courtroom and watch them try their BS.

      • FistOfXenu

        I’d like to watch the Demented Midget tap-dance. Can’t somebody in the case figure out a way to drag him into it?

      • SP ‘Onage

        With all the public interest and lawsuits on scientology/narconon now. I wish Court TV would cover these cases.

    • Poison Ivy

      I’m glad the case ended up with such a Judge. Others in the past haven’t been so lucky. (Fortunately, judges aren’t sequestered, like some juries, so the judge can read the kind of entheta posted here and elsewhere, and get a basic understanding of how Scientology manipulates the law. )

  • Poison Ivy

    “We asked Rinder: Who in the 1980s was living in the presidential suite of the Fort Harrison and rose at noon? He told us it was Lamia Khashoggi (previously Laura Biancolini), the wife of Adnan Khashoggi the ultra-rich arms dealer. Adnan himself was never a Scientologist, but he was apparently happy to keep his wife ensconced at the Fort Harrison, which would have been cheaper than keeping her in Rome or New York, Rinder points out.”

    No words indeed! Scientology – six degrees of separation from the worst people on the planet. And always where the money is!

    Surreal. “It’s always worse than you think.”

    • sugarplumfairy

      Six degrees would be predictable and almost acceptable.. In bed with them? That’s just.. wow.. I’m trying to think of something to describe it..

    • Poison Ivy–I can back this up, 100%! I was there when she was and not only that….Scientology was TRYING to get my husband to go to Europe and “Handle” her (Adnan Kashogiggi’s wife) son. Normally it takes weeks to complete OT 7 and get “Set up” for OT 8. They had my now ex-husband (then we were married) done and whisked off to the Freewinds in *a* week-end! Why? To get him away from me who saw this even back then as super weird and not a good idea. I ONLY got him out of it by flying to the FREEWINDS. Once there, I was told “STAND BACK::: YOU ARE **NOT** ALLOWED ON THIS SHIP”. (I had to see the MLO, due to Epilepsy). They were close, I *nearly* told the guy to F*** off and leave, but I knew that was what they wanted. I stayed, got on and got my husband out of that mess. Yes, “Find out about Scientology: It IS worse than you think!”

      • Awwww Tory – you were even awesome way back in the day!!!!

        • Thanks, tetloj 🙂 I guess we knew each other? 🙂 Hopefully s/time soon we’ll get to re-meet live. I would like that, a LOT.

  • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

    PC Folders contain the notes from “auditing” sessions (Confessionals) but Ethics Folders are not part of a “confessional.” As I recall, in “ethics cycles” the person conducting it begins by stating, “I am not auditing you.”

    • 1subgenius

      Handy info. I wonder if Laura’s attorneys have noted this. Even though she would know, the rabbit hole is so deep things get lost.
      You would do well to try to communicate with them or her about this approach.

  • Espiando

    Oh, boy…I can’t decide. Both of our choices today have been destructive in their own way. Emma got ESMB running as a safe zone just in time for Anon’s arrival on the scene, and all those recent stories of just-outs became a treasure trove for those of us behind the mask. ESMB provided our background in doing our own version of TR0-Bullbait. We had a real-time and recent bucket list of buttons we could push on those still in, as well as verified first-hand accounts of abuses we could sell to the public. You have to love Emma and the job she’s done in making sure that those coming out could transition knowing that they had support.

    However…Gerry may be a jerk and have said things to some people that he probably now regrets (see below for people being called OSA spies). That being said, can you blame him? If he didn’t succumb to the paranoia, fear, and loathing on some occasions, I’d think something was really wrong with him. He paid a bigger price than most because he has some of the most destructive material to Scientology imaginable. Tommy Davis said it himself: if LRH lied, then Scientology is a lie, and Gerry got the material out that showed LRH to be an inveterate liar. The Affirmations alone are devastating. Imagine if you had a document written by Moses or Jesus or Muhammad detailing their liaison the previous night with a particularly cute billy goat, or Gautama writing to tell someone that he had some great breakthroughs regarding meditation while he was drunk and having five women service him (or on pinks and greys). And who knows how much Gerry hasn’t revealed yet? He’s got to have some stuff in reserve in case OSA tries again.

    Like I said, it’s impossible. If the Church had a vote, they’d go for Armstrong instantly. I guess that means we should vote for ESMB, because CoS can’t be right about anything.

    • Poison Ivy

      Honestly, if I had been Gerry, I think I would’ve ended up in a madhouse. (Ditto, Paulette, which is why she is so impressive to me.) The kind of gaslighting the church is famous for is mind-boggling and I don’t know that I would’ve been tough enough to withstand it.

      • 1subgenius

        upvote for “gaslighting”

    • DeElizabethan

      Regarding Gerry calling people OSA spies. Well, him being so familiar with, then going through so much as he did, I can’t say I blame him. I only had a small connection and am still getting over the paranoia associated with that experience.

  • Ze Moo

    Laura’s folders and by extension all documents that CO$ has on any person are not covered by priest penitent privilege. That privilege is by statute and previous decision limited to discourses between the ‘priest’ and penitent. If any 3rd person can access the ‘confession’, it is not covered by the privilege.

    As anyone can, for any purpose in scientology read the folder, no confidentiality privilege exists for any scientology document. This means that no confessional privilege exits in scientology, anywhere for anything. Ok, the case is in California State court and the legal decisions apply only to California, other states may look differently at this problem. This site and untold others have shown that ‘auditing’ folders are consulted by anyone for any reason.

    There is no priest-penitent privilege in scientology. Next hurdle is getting the statute of limitations problem. Hopefully the judge will see coercion and decide in Laura’s favor. If he does, the floodgates in California will open.

    • 1subgenius

      Nice analysis. Also I think any privilege is waivable by the holder of the privilege, in this case the “penitent”, in others it would be the patient, client, etc.
      Someone elsewhere asked about the standard of proof for brainwashing and I think you’re right that we’re talking about simple coercion, duress, etc.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        I’m just catching up on comments so if this was discussed below, apologies. I believe there is a potential for priest – penitent privilege ONLY for auditing. Sec checks are another matter. I recall reading something about how Co$ makes that distinction and that it is vital for them to get the “good dirt” from sec checks versus auditing so that it can be used for fair gaming.

      • Ze Moo

        Patient confidentiality has different meanings under different state laws. Anyone in the ‘chain of custody’ is required to keep confidential medical or psychiatric or substance abuse records. They may be shared for the purposes of billing and quality control, but not with any party outside of those purposes.

        People in these positions may not access the records of anyone they don’t have a legitimate reason to access. This is why you occasionally hear of some hospital worker fired of disciplined for looking at a celebrities medical record. HIPAA (federal law) is very clear on what can and can’t be done with medical records.

        Laura did waive her privilege of confidentiality and I don’t see how CO$ can still claim confidentiality on this issue. My point is that because 3rd parties always have access to CO$ auditing sessions, they are never privileged. The sec checks should always be non-confidential, the sessions starts off with ‘this is not auditing”… The coercion and duress question will be the meat of this matter. Go Laura Go….

    • Missionary Kid

      Thanks Ze. I maintain that from what I’ve heard, ALL documents in Co$ are only confidential in regards to outsiders.

    • t1kk

      The priest-penitent privilege most certainly does exist in Scientology, and indeed it’s being recognized by this court even (and has been recognized in the past). My contention is that the privilege should start and stop with the penitent, and belong solely to them to waive (which argument I laid out in greater detail on my blog). But even if you start with the premise that Scientology isn’t a religion (and for all functional purposes in the US, that ship has long sailed), it would remain good policy to recognize the privilege for the sake of protecting the confidentiality of statements made by confessors who reasonably believed such statements would remain confidential.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    Oh, dear Kate. So sorry to know that bastard called “Cancer” is still troubling you, and so glad to know you are kicking it’s ass!

    So much love to you. You will be held and supported by this community, I have no doubt. Focus on healing, and move forward. Kiss kiss, auntie Kate!

    –CV

    • Well put, CV—I add my love to you, too, Kate! Many, Many people have battled and won this one, including Jesse Prince who had Stage 4 Cancer and is quite well, a few years later! Hang tough. As my Grandfather (a Doctor) used to always tell us: “Hearts of Oak” <<< Keep your heart strong! We're there for you, lass. 🙂 Tory/Magoo

      • FLUNK101

        Someone very close to me had cancer. Twice. And is cancer free, for well over 10 years now … I Thank Goodness and I feel so blessed that she is still here on this Earth with me.
        Get well soon, Kate!
        May we be so blessed.

        Flunk

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Yes! Jesse is looking so good and laughing a lot these days. Love to him too!

        My nephew had cancer of the kidney when he was just FIVE years old. Surgery and chemo, pure hell for such a little child. But he will be 37 this year, and he’s healthy and cancer free. It is not a death sentence, not by far. Kate will be well!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      CV! It tis You!

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Yep, tis me. I got tired of Lana Kane. 🙂

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Sweet!

        • Captain Howdy

          Is that the real you CV ? Not only am I impressed, I’m also inspired to you use a real photo of moi.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            You are not a carnivorous chick in a bear suit?

            • Captain Howdy

              Only when I’m having the H.R. Pufnstuf nightmares.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh…you have those too?

            • coonellie

              After three 20-hour days, I’m trying to catch up. All I can say is that I must be really messed up as I loved HR Puf-n-Stuf. And, I thought, Capt, that your new icon was the Joker…and BTN, I really despise the witch in your icon. I love you. BTW, Capt, after reading the last few days, I see why you still attract me…you remind me of Mr. Coonellie. His self descriptor is an anarco-capitalist with a predilection for revenge.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Yes, that’s me. Glad I inspired you cap’n, and may I say about your photo, that’s quite a striking visage! 🙂

  • After linking to Carol Nyburg Vedder’s story and reading it, it never ceases to amaze my the depth of depravity of the Sea Org and Scientology.

    • stillgrace

      When I read the story, I got the feeling that it was David Miscavige and his infamous gaffes, lack of ethical leadership, and sadism/control that introduced misery into her life, and eventually led her away from Co$. If it wasn’t for that asshole, she might still be at Flag raking in $40,000 to $80,000 per week, doing what she did best!
      Think about that, DM!!

      • Poison Ivy

        I’m sometimes surprised that DM has any feet left, given the among of bullets he’s constantly shooting into them. However, all that ill-gotten CO$ money can buy a lot of heavy shoes.

        • stillgrace

          I agree! However, with dwindling income, and daily foot-bullets, he will run out of shoes eventually.
          Tick-tock, as Tory would say.

        • 1subgenius

          He didn’t get where he is through merit.

        • Unex Skcus

          Bullet proof shoes, courtesy of Khashoggi?

        • FistOfXenu

          Maybe he’s started getting “volunteers” and shooting them instead of himself. Maybe that’s why he’s beating up the staff.

      • 1subgenius

        Can you believe being so clueless that you’re going to disturb one of your biggest donors?

        And punishing someone who tries to stop you.

        DM will win SMERSH madness, based on this alone.

        • Observer

          DM probably just assumes that his august presence is welcomed and counted a blessing by everyone.

          • FistOfXenu

            I’ll welcome his presence all right. I’ll fly anywhere in the world to welcome his presence into a court of law and hear him sentenced to a long stretch in prison for what he’s done to so many people. And if they let me I’ll ride along with him to the big house (you know, where they lock up big beans) so I can introduce him to his new best friend and roommate, Bubba, and then I’ll let Bubba affectionately welcome him to prison.

            And if it’s in August, yeah, I can live with that.

      • Missionary Kid

        That’s $40,000 to $80,000 per week that DM wants for himself. It’s part of his age discrimination policy. He’ll try to replace her with someone who has been paid much less and is grateful for the higher pay.

    • 1subgenius

      And yet it sounds like she’s still drinking the Kool-Aid.

  • mook

    Lawrence Wright was on Dennis Miller’s radio show last Friday
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/lawrence-wright-on-dennis-miller-03-15-13.109776/

    • Captain Howdy

      Dennis Miller ? And according to WWP, if you want to listen to Miller’s past shows it will only cost you $72. Figures, typical “BLEEP”.

      • Poison Ivy

        Ditto. He’s come a long way since his glory SNL days.

        • Captain Howdy

          What’s up next for Wright.. “The Victoria Jackson Show” ?

          • Sherbet

            Laughing. My. Head. Off.

          • Poison Ivy

            Ha ha! (Worked with her briefly in the late ’80’s…she was quite sweet then but not a brain surgeon.)

            • 1subgenius

              You do know she has gone full mental, right?

            • Captain Howdy

              Jackson makes Miller look like Chuck Hagel.

            • 1subgenius

              My mind is blown.

              I won’t ask you “In what way?”

              And please, don’t explain. I’d rather it be one of those ineffable mysteries of the universe.

            • Captain Howdy

              First let explain that I tried to delete the BIG (they use to show up much smaller) Mel Gibson photo but can’t.

              What I meant was that Jackson is so extreme she makes Miller look like a moderate in comparison.

            • 1subgenius

              I asked you not to, but Miller should have Jackson on his “show”.
              Make that happen please.

          • Sherbet

            Hey, who gave Howdy the down arrow?? What he said was wicked funny!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Maybe Skip dropped by?

            • 1subgenius

              Wasn’t me, but its only an arrow.

            • Victoria Jackson, probably

          • sugarplumfairy

            lol..

        • Sherbet

          I still like him, because he’s about the only conservative Republican in media I can think of who doesn’t come across as a jerk. It seems, in the media, either you’re a liberal a la Jon Stewart, or you’re pompous. And I don’t really share his politics. (I miss the hair, though!)

          • aquaclara

            and I will take every entertainer who lines up against the cult any day….

            • 1subgenius

              Because he had Wright on doesn’t mean he’s “lining up against the cult.”
              I bet if they paid him he’d play the Celebrity Center.

            • aquaclara

              that’s so true. ugh.

            • Captain Howdy

              According to the WWP link Miller was being somewhat of an apologist for the cult.

            • 1subgenius

              Given his nature I was going to predict previously (in response to the statement about “lining up against the cult” that he probably played, what he would say is, the “Devil’s Advocate.”

              In fact, he’s just pedantically polemical. Not the phrase I’m looking for but it will do for now.
              Throw “officious” in there somewhere.

              There is a misconception that there are two sides to every issue. So in “The Argument Culture” many, many people disagree with a statement for no reason, other than that misconception, and habit.

            • Guest

              .

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Repairs completed.

            • Captain Howdy

              That’s moar leik it ! LoooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

            • 1subgenius

              The enemy of my enemy may be useful, but is not necessarily my friend.

          • 1subgenius

            He’s an idiot.

            I heard him deride the notion that a few degrees difference in the earth’s climate is significant.

            It actually is.

            Ignorance is dangerous.

            He’s one of those people that tries too hard to appear smarter than he is. Smug is too little to describe him.

            And he’s now just a panderer to the few who will pay him anything.

            As a comedian, he has never made me laugh. And that’s the worst sin of all.

            • Sherbet

              OK. Resigning my membership in his fan club…

            • Trustmeonthis

              Sounds like someone is guilty of being GLIB.

        • Anonymookme

          He has never been funny. The more conservative he gets the more terminally unfunny he gets.

  • sizzle8

    The judge’s order could be a big precedent.
    Also, I bet that 90% or more of the documents where the “priest-penitent privilege” is being sought were between Laura and someone who was just a student or crew, not “clergy” and not someone who had done the “minister’s course” and been “ordained”.

    • 1subgenius

      It has also been pointed out elsewhere that sec checks are specifically stated to NOT be auditing.

    • t1kk

      Trial court orders generally don’t create precedents; and this trial court order–five sentences long I believe–is especially not up to the task. If Scientology were to appeal this order (and I’m not clear that they even could; it’s a California civil procedure question the answer to which I’m not aware), the appeals court order could indeed become precedential authority and govern future questions. It’s a risk Scientology’s attorneys are definitely reminding CSI of.

  • SP ‘Onage

    As of late, the judicial system (Judges) seem to be wising up to scientology. Let’s hope the FBI is too. I wonder if Homeland Security is still investigating them?

    Best wishes to Kate, get well soon. Miss your comments. 🙂

    • Ze Moo

      If enough aliens have ‘blown’ the cult and Davey hasn’t reported it, there could be some nice blow back coming. There are reporting requirements, especially if an alien can’t be found. Some nice potential in this, visa fraud can get Davey some truly bad publicity and maybe some jail time. Jail time seems unlikely, there will be someone lower down on the ‘bridge’ to take the fall for visa fraud.

  • aquaclara

    The language the cult uses just kills me. Priest. Penitent. Privileged. Ecclesiastical. Ethics. Not one of these is used in any normal context of the word. Somehow, this rotten cult has managed to turn every good word into its devilish opposite. I hope the judge sees through this BS in his courtroom soon.
    Laura’s case is significant and substantial. I hope you win, Laura. You deserve it. And the cult deserves to pay. Now I just hope they don’t come calling upon our Derek for his former shredding skills once again before it reaches Judge Sohigian.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Are you kidding….I bet Derek would happily take care of all of those documents.
      OK, so it may not involve a shredder this time….

      • aquaclara

        excellent!

    • 1subgenius

      “The language the cult uses just kills me. Priest. Penitent. Privileged. Ecclesiastical. Ethics. Not one of these is used in any normal context of the word.”

      Words mean only what they say they mean.

      • FistOfXenu

        That’s why they use Alice in the TRs right? To intro members to the idea. So that makes Hubbard Humpty Dumpty, doesn’t it?

        L Ron Humpty. I like it.

        • Observer

          I’d have gone with Tweedledum.

          • FistOfXenu

            Sorry, I saved Tweedledum and Tweedledee for Rinder and Rathbun.

            • Observer

              Ah, that makes sense!

            • DeElizabethan

              Tweedledee and Tweeledum were names the GO used for enemies, City Commissioner Richard Tenney and Alex Cormier (an ex) back 1980 in CW.

            • FistOfXenu

              I remember. That’s part of the fun of using them for the M&M show. I’m trying to decide whether DM should be the Red Queen. And maybe Travolta as the Cheshire cat? And Cruise as the Mad Hatter?

            • DeElizabethan

              You do! Nice

            • Trustmeonthis

              So, who is Alice? Katie?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Were those names in order?

            • FistOfXenu

              If you can tell, you’re better than I am. 🙂

        • Captain Howdy

          It makes Hubbard the Cheshire Cat. Grinning from ear to ear as he trapped more mice in the maze.

          When I first read about TR-Alice I was convinced that was a major clue from LRH that the whole thing was a twisted joke.

          • jojo neal

            And you’d probably be right, Cap’n.

        • jojo neal

          “When I use a word,” said Humpty Dumpty, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”

          “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.”

          “the question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master, that’s all.”

          But then HD says,

          “When I make a word do a lot of work like that, I always pay it extra.”

          My God, and they’re letting the SO read that? Why, it might give them ideas!

          (Thanks, Fist. I’ve been wanting to put up this quote for simply ages. )

          And then there’s the one from the Red Queen about “jam every other day.” Alice’ for TR’s ? – these people are IDIOTS.

          • FistOfXenu

            I think of it as LRH rubbing their noses in how completely he was their master.

      • Missionary Kid

        As I understand it, that’s why classes are offered: to steep the individual in the twisted epistemology of LRH. If a person buys into that, it’s all downhill for Co$ until the person wakes up.

  • Sherbet

    Isn’t it strange how, so far, the results of today’s SMERSH matchup are nearly identical to yesterday’s? 37% vs. 63%-ish? It says something about the way the Bunker’s residents line up, statistically and demographically. I don’t know what, but I found it interesting.

    • 1subgenius

      We live in interesting times.

      • stillgrace

        Doesn’t that imply a curse?

        • 1subgenius

          You are the winner of the day.

  • 0tessa

    Good News:
    Jenna Miscavige Hill is traveling around the world to speak about her book and her life as a child in the Sea Org. Today, the national television in The Netherlands had an item on her in a news programme on prime time. She was seeing walking along the canals in Amsterdam, telling about the child abuse in Scientology. Very bad press for the cult indeed! Her book is already translated in Dutch and will appear beginning next month.

    • Sherbet

      Take THAT, Karin Pouw!

    • DeElizabethan

      Otessa, thanks, do you remember how many languages Jenna’s book is in and what they are? It was noted on the bunker I believe.

      • 0tessa

        De: I do not remember having read this. The Netherlands are a very small country with a Class IV or V org, and even there it has been translated very, very quickly. That is remarkable. I reckon that in every country with an Org it gets translated, or at least, it should be.

    • “The church reacted with: ‘all the people in the Sea Org have a wonderful
      life; and when they leave they are very succesful in their new lives’.” REALLY? That is a HUGE shift if true. They used to ALWAYS pitch how horrific people’s lives are once they have left. Once more, that’s thanks to ALL who have spoken out AND the Net…where they CAN tell their stories, despite $cientology’s endless LIES. If they now say that, it’s ONLY for PR sake. I’m sure inside they are telling the members the opposite. Dave? You can run, but you CANNOT Hide: Never forget that dood. Your local, friendly and persistent SP! Tory/Magoo

      • 0tessa

        Tory: The reaction was the one of the local church in Amsterdam. Maybe they are not aware of the ‘standard’ way of reacting …?
        In Scientology PR takes precedence over reality, but nature cannot be fooled. (Paraphrase on the quote of scientist Feynman in his report on the Challenger.)

        • Ahhhhhhhhh Amsterdam….that’s probably it, right there! MUCH more chilled out peeps there than in the USA, for sure. Here they always rag on how horrible your life will be if you EVER even consider leaving. QUACK! QUACK! 🙂 Literally funny at this point. Sadly, there’s still “A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest”. Happily, despite that—most are finding their way to the Net, FACTS, People’s stories and figuring out WAY faster: ” I guess I, too, Can get out of here!” Use LRH’s FINAL PL: “The WAY OUT ***IS** the Neeeeeeeearest DOOR!” ((Hey, HE took it, why not you?) 🙂

    • Missionary Kid

      Jenna is being successful in her new life by kicking the shit out of $cientology, so the church is right on that count.

  • Sid Snakey

    Go Gerry, Go Gerry!!

  • AnonymousSP

    Good luck Laura!
    Also, Gerry Armstrong… a true hero.

    • 1subgenius

      This is a man.

  • DeElizabethan

    Gerry Armstrong was one of the first sites I read and his articles were most beneficial to me, so he gets my vote.

  • DeElizabethan

    Kate, my heart goes out to you…<3

  • Jgg2012

    Here is what I posted at Scott’s blog:

    The privilege may be waived if criminal acts are involved. Also, how many of these confessions are religious? How many were voluntary? Weren’t they given to a third party to harass her, in which case they have already been waived? This is what the court will look at, and, if the plaintiff’s claims are true, much of it will be admissible.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Thanks for the url link to Kate Bornstein’s GoFundMe page. And it would be great to have a place to send cards, but in the meantime …..

    Hi Aunt Katie! Now is the time to Not Stand Tall ! Lay down and rest up for important stuff like Fun Libs! Like SP Parties. You are in our thoughts and crossing fingers the funding will go fast as well as your healing. Mwwwwah!

    [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/288dqq.jpg[/IMG]

  • dwayners13

    Am I the only one thinking that part of the reason the church is stalling with respect to releasing Ms. DeCrescenzo PC folder is because they need time to discard and/or alter some of the information in that file? It wouldn’t be the first time the church has intentionally discarded damaging evidence during a trial. Marty Rathbun has admitted to ordering church officials to lose the daily logs from the days leading up to Lisa McPherson’s death. I wouldn’t put it past them to do this again & considering the size of Ms. DeCrescenzo’s folder, it would take a considerable amount of time to ensure there was no damaging evidence in those folders. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if they added or altered the file in ways which would support the church’s position and/or proved their innocence.

    • Ze Moo

      Altering the evidence would be quite a job. Almost 4 thousand documents to ‘fix’, we don’t know how many docs need fixing. It could be done, just get some loyal sea Ogres and go to work. Davey doesn’t trust anyone. Anyone who helped in such a project has a get out of jail free card and an invitation to a nice payoff and non-disclosure agreement. Or a lifetime in the rpf. Which one would Davey prefer???

      • dwayners13

        That’s a great question. Logic would say you keep the sea org workers who cleaned up her file happy (ie., give them a nice reward, such as cash, cushy job & one of those nice medals such as the ‘medal of valor’ Cruise received. That would be the logical approach, however we’re talking about Miscavige & he’s not exactly known for handling issues like this in a logical or rational manner. He’d probably wait until they’re finished the job, thank them for serving the ‘greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’ & then find a reason to throw their ‘butts’ in the RPF & claim it was the ‘greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’.

    • Sidney18511

      I thought the exact same thing. There’s no way they are going to hand over the origional files.

    • yeah the lying liars keep lying.

    • sizzle8

      The truck carrying the folders will “accidentally” go off a cliff and burn to a crisp.

  • dagobarbz

    I think the lawyers need to be very, very careful with this requesting of dox. Gonna need to be more specific and name each by its proper category, or they’ll wind up with nothing but a ‘PC folder’ as requested. The cult will obstruct by being very, very specific with the dox it releases.

  • Yeppir

    I am confused. LASC docket for the case (BC411018) shows that the MT Compel heard on March 6 (presumably Laura’s) was denied. What am I missing?

    http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilcasesummarynet/ui/index.aspx?ct=

    • t1kk

      Most likely because Laura’s motion was in two parts–seeking either an order to compel or in the alternative, a terminating sanction. Since the former was granted, the latter was naturally denied. Perhaps the website isn’t capable of accurately reflecting a result of “granted in part denied in part” and whoever entered it arbitrarily chose to reflect that it was denied.

      • Captain Howdy

        I sense a lawyer in our presence.

  • Missionary Kid

    Tony, when everything is done with March Madness, can we have a straight popularity poll on all the contestants?

    • Trustmeonthis

      We’re having that now. 😛

      • Missionary Kid

        The problem with the present method of pairing is that it’s possible that a person or group who might have been eliminated early because of the pairing, really should rank much higher.in the panorama of heroes who have done damage to Co$ than the level they have been eliminated, especially all of the ones who’ve been paired against the eventual winner.

  • FistOfXenu

    I’ve been trying all day to think of a sign to sum up today’s blog by Tony and the comments here. I finally got it. And no I’m not being flip or minimizing anything. Once I realized what I’m seeing I got so damn mad I had to do it like this

    • hogarthian

      That’s not being flip, at all.

  • FistOfXenu

    This too

  • Bella Legosi

    Nice to hear that this judge put his foot down! We need more judges to do that

    • FistOfXenu

      I know just the place too. DM’s neck.

      • Bella Legosi

        Hehe “Lick my boot.” God I love A Clockwork Orange

        • FistOfXenu

          I’d love it more if Alex didn’t remind me of Demented Midget.

  • Davka

    Completely off topic, not sure if anyone else posted this yet – Mike Rinder has a blog (!) mikerindersblog.org

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      MOD: PLEASE DELETE DAVKA’S POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Davka

        Aww, OTVIII, I love you too 🙂

    • hogarthian

      Mike Rinder needs a fucking good slap round the chops. I’m not sure what i want to say here but i know that i need to say something, so this is my stream of consciousness ……

      to me, there is a grand canyon of difference between the ex’s and the indie’s … and it’s all good, in one way or another (i’m singing debbie harry here). However, The church of scientology is a fucking cult. End of. You may disagree with the application of whatever the fuck it is that you’re pedalling, but if you agree with the concept then you are (block your ears) a sandwhich short of a fucking picnic. You still need help, a lot of it, shit loads of it, more than anyone could ever give you. I’m struggling, in fact i’ve given up struggling) to feel sorry for you. I can’t say any more….. except lead your own fucking life, stop looking for answers to stuff that there isn’t a fucking answer to and just get the fuck on with it like the rest of us. The rest of us are cool, we’re good here, we enjoy it. We realise that we cannot influence others by the tone of our fucking voices, other than to freak them out, and we’re good with that.

      And as for those of you have reached the otviii thing….. SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!

  • hogarthian

    Well I think this is just fabulous news. Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey, an’ all that.

    On a lighter note, I’ve spent some time this morning amusing myself, in that land of Oz that’s inhabited by the independents. I know I should be more understanding, but for the life of me I just can’t.

    WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!

  • Sokramor

    I’ve wanted to read Kate’s memoir for a while now, and I just bought it. Signal boosted on my tumblr, too, and I hope I can scrape together a few euros to donate. Best wishes, Kate, and my fingers are crossed for a speedy recovery!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      It will blow you away!
      She is so damned interesting.

    • hogarthian

      Scientology aside, the world can’t be doing with losing people like Kate. It looks like everyone loves her very much. I’ve just finished reading Armistead Maupin’s ‘Tales of the City’ series and she clearly IS Anna Madrigal. (If anyone knows what I’m talking about?). Good luck to her!

  • hogarthian

    Oh dear. Faculty meeting, with Faculty lunch with Alcohol. It all adds up to incoherent ranting. But it comes from a good place, really it does. I’m just exasperated, and Mike Rinder’s new blog was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I’m expecting to be excommunicated, which is furry muff. If I disappear, I’m SO with you in spirit.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    A former parishioner wants her folders back and we in the Church of Scientology say no. It’s all protected priest-penitent information. Our fancy wog lawyers argue on our behalf:

    Easy ready willing billing time
    When does it stop, where do you dare RTC to draw the line?
    We got your folders now you want your soul
    Don’t even think about it say no go

    Now we’ll do anything we want to do
    We’ll do anything COB wants us to
    But we won’t give back folders
    No can do

    We’ll just lie and repeat the some old lines
    Priest-penitent privilege is twice as nice
    We used your body and used your soul
    Now we have your folders and say no go

    Oh we’ll do anything we want to do
    We’ll do anything COB wants us to
    But we won’t give back folders
    No can do
    We can’t go for that
    No we can’t go for that

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Just came across this. I knew Miscavige added his own dark twists in scientology ethics book. Didn’t know he added that scientologists are pressured and charged with a crime for not Enforcing Confessions! Here on this WWP thread is a copy of a scientology ethics order listing just that! Enforced Confessions?! Hope Laura’s lawyers have this particular edition of scientology’s Official ethics, justice and crimes book

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/new-york-emails-leaked.43581/

  • Jgg2012

    Scientology’s brief reminds me of an old law school saying:

    If the facts are on your side, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table.

    In other words, distract the court with a list of cites that are impressive but irrelevant.
    Scientology says auditing is “Priest-penitent”.Narconon says it is secular and medically effective. Well, which is it? No, the court won’t make discussions of thetans admissible, but if it finds evidence that Laura was coerced or deceived, the First Amendment won’t apply to that.