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‘Going Clear’ fallout: Imagining the fate of Scientology and David Miscavige

David_Miscavige_IAS30Maria Bustillos contacted us recently, telling us that she was working on a review of Alex Gibney’s film Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief, and she wanted to ask us a question, which turned out to be quite good.

We were familiar with Maria’s work because of a story she did at The Awl in 2011 lauding the work of Los Angeles Times reporters Joel Sappell and Robert Welkos, who wrote about Scientology in a number of stories in the 1980s, culminating in a huge series in 1990. She also referred to earlier work done by Pulitzer-prize winners Charles Stafford and Bette Orsini at the St. Petersburg Times.

Maria’s point was that there were great and brave journalists who had done much of the heavy lifting before Lawrence Wright came along in 2011 with his massive story on Paul Haggis in The New Yorker. That point is well taken, and here in the Underground Bunker we have tried to give credit to brave journalists where it is due, going back to the likes of Paulette Cooper, for example. (Ahem, shameless plug.)

Anyway, here’s the question that Maria asked us: “The film is so damning of David Miscavige that it’s difficult to believe that there won’t be repercussions for him. Can you speculate as to how a succession might be managed?”

Wow. Great question. We decided it deserved a full and lengthy reply, some of which Maria generously excerpted for her story. But we thought you might want to see the entire thing, including our disclaimers and qualifiers. So dig in. We’re sure to hear some interesting responses.

 

Maria, this is a really good question, so I’m going to give you a lengthy reply. I hope it’s useful.

Totalitarian organizations run by sociopaths never have a succession plan. The megalomaniac in charge simply cannot imagine himself no longer in control.

L. Ron Hubbard never had a succession plan in place. He couldn’t for a minute imagine someone else running Scientology. After he went into permanent hiding in 1980, he still maintained control by sending “despatches” through Pat Broeker (who was with him at his hiding place) to David Miscavige, who then took them to the rest of the organization. That put both of those men in powerful positions — they were the chokepoint of information between Hubbard and the rest of the Scientology world. In 1981 and 1982, Hubbard had Scientology completely reorganized not because he was preparing to hand over power, but simply to make it harder for creditors or law enforcement to get its hands on him and his money.

Briefly, CSI — the Church of Scientology International — would be the “mother church,” RTC — the Religious Technology Center — would regulate CSI, and CST — Church of Spiritual Technology — would remain mostly in the shadows, having ultimate control of the trademarks and copyrights and Hubbard’s hundreds of millions of dollars. The purpose of this onion-layering was that Hubbard knew the lawsuits would be aimed at CSI, might possibly rope in RTC, but would almost never touch CST, the ultimate backstop for him and his cash.

Even longtime Scientologists don’t understand why this reorganization was done and what its purpose was. They’ll tell you it was Hubbard’s way of creating a system of “checks and balances” so that when he was gone, there would be a more democratic platform for running Scientology. That’s nonsense. There was no succession plan and no democracy in the CSI/RTC/CST model.

Near the end of his life, as it was obvious that he was becoming frail, Hubbard wrote a vague statement announcing that Pat and Annie Broeker had been named “Loyal Officers.” This was a science fiction term he had used in his Xenu ravings when he was trying to turn the OT III madness into a screenplay. So when people say that this was Hubbard anointing the Broekers to be his successors, that’s pretty speculative. And it was academic anyway. By around 1983, a few years into Hubbard’s total seclusion when he’d moved to a ranch near San Luis Obispo, Miscavige had begun to solidify his position as the new leader.

He was able to do it, again, because he was the chokepoint, along with Broeker, that controlled access between Hubbard and the rest of Scientology. Broeker didn’t have it in him to become the next dictator. He was loyal, but he was weak. Miscavige easily maneuvered him out of the way. But he did so secretly.

I’ve talked to people who were longtime Scientologists who were at the Hollywood Palladium on January 27, 1986, when David Miscavige came out on stage to announce that Hubbard had “discarded his body” three days earlier, and they wondered, “Who’s David Miscavige?” Seriously, he had taken over complete control and many people in Scientology didn’t even know who he was.

And that’s because he’s not elected. He doesn’t have to be popular. He answers to no one. He doesn’t even acknowledge that he runs Scientology as a whole. He and the lawyers and Karin Pouw, the spokeswoman, always point out that he’s only the “ecclesiastical” leader of Scientology, and is the Chairman of the Board (COB) of the Religious Technology Center (RTC). In other words, they want to portray him as some kind of philosophical figure who contemplates the best way to keep Hubbard’s teachings pure. And nothing more.

But the truth is, he’s an utter dictator, and micromanages every aspect of Scientology down to the smallest detail. As the Tampa Bay Times revealed in 2009, that translates to him erupting on people, beating them, and having them beat each other up and spit on each other. He’s a little tyrant.

Everyone who has ever gotten close to him in power eventually gets burned and then turned out. Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder are two good examples. Who is close to Miscavige’s level of power today in Scientology? Is there anyone? Marc Yager? Greg Wilhere? Jenny Linson? They’ve all been tossed into The Hole, and only emerge when Miscavige summons them. (We think there is still a version of The Hole today, but Miscavige had to make it less horrific after details about it first surfaced in 2009.)

There is no succession plan in the bylaws of CSI/RTC/CST, and it’s hard to imagine how there could be any kind of transfer of power, as long as Miscavige is alive. So what’s going to happen?

I can think of some scenarios, but I tend not to prognosticate at my website. With Scientology, I’m continually surprised with how things turn out — which is why I enjoy reporting on it so much. The decision just this week by Judge James D. Whittemore to hand Scientology a total win in a federal fraud lawsuit that seemed to be going the other way is a good example. Guessing how that was going to turn out was a sucker’s game. That’s why I try not to put too much faith into any one particular outcome.

So, I caution you, these possible scenarios might turn out to be completely wrong. It’s just really hard to imagine what is going to happen. But I will try.

1. Miscavige is incapacitated. He’s only 54, so this seems somewhat unlikely, but let’s say he’s debilitated by a stroke or passes away. Who takes over? It’s completely unclear from both the bylaws of CSI/RTC/CST as well as who seems to be around him. At this point, it’s the lawyers (most of whom are not Scientologists) who prop up Miscavige. Would the lawyers quickly move someone like Marc Yager or Jenny Linson into the “Chairman of the Board” spot? Would the membership accept that? It’s really hard to know.

2. Miscavige removed by coup. This is something that a lot of angry former Scientology members want to see happen, as well as some still inside the church. But they base it on a bad misreading of the CSI/RTC/CST founding documents. As Denise Brennan explained to me before she died last year, when she helped Hubbard create those alphabet soup entities in 1981, they specifically designed them to make it appear that a system of trustees and boards of directors could select a new leader of Scientology. But it was all a sham, she explained. As long as Miscavige is alive and has the attorneys working for him, he will not be removed. Mike Rinder agrees with me on this score.

3. An outside force. To me, this seems the most likely. I have a feeling that the IRS or the FBI is biding its time, watching as Scientology continues to shrink and weaken. At some point, they’ll move in. And then Miscavige and Scientology will be caught up in court actions basically forever, and a succession will be a moot point.

Again, I reserve the right to be completely wrong about these scenarios, and the actual outcome may be a complete surprise — but that’s what makes it so fun to write about this nutty group.

Well, what do you think? Where do you think things are going to end up?

 
——————–

‘Going Clear’ is causing so much fun

We wanted to make sure everyone got a chance to see the really fun shoop posted by Nat-leficent yesterday. If only HBO would use this as an ad!

 
AshtrayHBO

 
Also, we guffawed at this tweet last night by Marc Headley…

 


 
——————–

Bonus photos from our tipsters

Remember Joy Villa and Connor Cruise getting ready to entertain at a fundraiser at the home of some wealthy Scientology whales? Now she says that little shindig raised $8 million.

 
Joy_Villa2

 
Hey, we want one of these!

 
DianeticsJacket

 
Scientologists are using social media more than ever. Drop us a line if you spot them posting images to Instagram or Facebook!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 19, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

 

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  • Sandy

    OT – Just reporting in – am trying Vaping for the 1st time today. I report a little hard getting used to the new routine. But, it’s not bad. Have only had 2 hits off a real cig today. Am trying.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Good for you.
      I am not a smoker…but I did try Baby and Dee’s Vaping.
      It was kind of cool.
      But not cool enough to make me give up TACOS!!!!

      • scottmercer

        Can you vape carnitas?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I bet if you give me a couple of days I could complete the mission! 😉

        • L. C. Spencer

          I can inhale carnitas.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Almost snarfed my Perkins wildberry pie.

    • MaxSpaceman

      uhm (in full support of you) — as Yoda put it: There is no try, There is Do, and Not do. 🙂
      You do. 1 day at a time.
      I gave up 20 years ago 50 cigarette per day habit.

      It can be done. One day at a time.

      • Sandy

        Max. I have smoked my entire adult life (I am 65). This is not a small attempt. This is kinda major for me. The only reason I said anything is cuz I know others have said it’s also hard for them. I’m just adding that I guess I am on that journey now too.

        • Ardent

          Sandy, WELL DONE! You are going to love being free of the vile things, I assure you!

        • MaxSpaceman

          I simply meant to reinforce the effort is 1 day at a time. It is a huge attempt, I know, and the vape has been a huge help to many. My dear friend quit using that med. on the market, and the gum, and whatever else he needed. Wishing you all the whatever you need to leave tobacco behind you. 🙂

          • Sandy

            Thank you Max. I did light a cig 2ce today. I just kinda felt lonely – hard to explain to non smokers. But – that was all. I am working on this.

            • Ardent

              Sharing is good. Don’t let guilt tangle your feet!

            • MaxSpaceman

              I know the hell of it – it’s an addiction that grabs billions of cells in the brain and owns them. My lungs had deteriorated; I had some kind of bronchial attack; laid up for 2 days, couldn’t breath but so shallow, around the Adam’s apple was all; couldn’t sleep; had some delirium and basically knew then: If I don’t stop now, these things will kill me. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay the companies to do that. So, I quit because of acute physical ‘knowing’ that my lungs wouldn’t survive smoking. With such a huge reason, I was able to quit. I don’t know how I would have, otherwise.

              But- one day, a year or a little more, you will have ecstasy moments! You will re-experience? — your taste buds! Oh!- the joy! And- you will re-encounter? — your wonderful sense of smell. And all your clothes won’t stink of putrid smoke. (I must stop now! I am so rabid anti-smoker. Sorry for beginning to rant.)

      • Ardent

        It really is possible. I smoked way too much at one point in life. I just plain stopped. I guess my system was fine with that, because I had no negative reaction at all. Weird.

    • aegerprimo

      YOU CAN DO IT SANDY!
      ETA: I quit 3 years ago.

    • Jerseygram

      Good luck!

    • SNAFU

      Just remember everything you have to lose and everything you have to gain when you get that craving. Those will subside after a few weeks and you’ll feel so much better day by day.

      Gave up a 50 cig a day habit years ago, similar to what Max described. Probably saved $15k since then and hopefully my health too.

      You can do it too, Sandy!

      • Sandy

        Mr SNAFU. This has nothing – nothing-to do with money. If you have never had an addiction – you really do not understand.

        • Robert Eckert

          If he was smoking 2 1/2 packs a day, I bet he understands perfectly.

          • Sandy

            ok

            • MaxSpaceman

              it’s ok, Sandy. You just beginning. You’ll do what you can. (and I want to say, “Make it go right!”) but I can’t/shan’t/shouldn’t/couldn’t did. :-/

        • SNAFU

          I’ve been in your shoes, Sandy. Quitting cigarettes was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do and I admire you for facing your addiction publicly. That’s a huge step in the right direction, one that was critical for me to break free on my second attempt. Staying away from places where people are smoking for the first month helps too. As for the money saved, that’s just one more thing I put in the plus column personally, nothing more.

    • Frodis73

      Congrats Sandy! I just started vaping at xmas time. It def gets easier and vaping is much less damaging than cigs. It’s a bit of a change, but you will slowly notice the difference…it’s hard to explain. Another plus for me is that I am def “smoking” less with my vape too! If you have any questions feel free to ask me, Baby or Dodo…(I’m sure I am forgetting sombody) as we are all pretty new to vaping in the past few mos or so.

      • Sandy

        Jeez – thx
        Really

    • what’suppressive

      Giving up smoking is EASY…….I’ve done it like 100 times.

  • Super Power Wogsy

    O/T somewhat: I have confused counting morphemes with Haiku counting. Thanks Bunker. : )

  • Sid

    If Joy and Connor split the 10% commission on $8 million, that’s a pretty good payday.

  • Ardent

    Hey, I think I’ll share some really nice news: I have adopted a nice 9=year-old male cat! He’s got incredible green eyes and is a great and black tabby. Goes by the name of ‘Jinx”. I’m feeling kinda giddy and good. I LOVE cats.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      hearts and love and all else.
      When do we get a picture!!!!

      • Ardent

        Ha, well, when he feels like actually coming out of hiding. He really just arrived a few hours ago – I had a long drive to get him. So, being a sensible cat, he’s carefully checking out his new environment. Patience, I keep telling myself (while stifling the urge to hunt him down, grab him and cuddle/snuggle until bed-time). I will post a photo, I promise.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Ok, we will be patient.
          Sort of.
          Tell him not to dilly dally too much.
          😉

          • Ardent

            Don’t worry about that.

        • L. C. Spencer

          Better keep that promise, we’ll stay on top of you! (Hopefully he will soon be doing so also. I love it when they sleep on your stomach.)

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      DOX(picts) or STFU!

      Just kidding, but seriously, I need a cute kitteh pict after the Marty sadz.

      • Ardent

        I can provide you with some other cats I once had the pleasure of loving! Hang on a sec!

        • Ardent

          They were brothers. Max is on the top of the image, and Biscuit is asleep below Max, with his head on the white fluffy bit. They were the most loving of cats!

          • Cupcakes for Breakfast

            Look at those sweet babies! I just started volunteering at the animal shelter in town, it was a long process to get in, but now that I am I go often to snuggle the cats. Love love love them.

      • MaxSpaceman

        F5 | refresh

        • Ardent

          T’ai Ch’i cat!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            The Matrix….slow mo bullet time. Or Breakin’, the break dance movie.

            • Ardent

              Ha. Yeah. Cool photo. Nice find, Max. Is this your cat?

            • MaxSpaceman

              an Interwebz cutey

            • MaxSpaceman

              The Cat’s a certifiable Hip Hop artiste !

          • Ben Franklin

            Couldn’t resist

            • Ardent

              It is surprising how much love we can feel for these small creatures.

            • Super Power Wogsy

              I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT!!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              That’s what my 2 boys looked like when they were kittens – now they both weigh just over 7 kilos, and are old and a bit slobbery, but I still love them!

          • MaxSpaceman

            and a Breakdancing Hip Hop Artist

    • aegerprimo

      Cats RULE!

      • Ardent

        I think so. I really, really am a cat-lover. They are fascinating, warm and wonderful friends.

    • generic sock account

      Smart move, leaving a record so we know what happened. Well,played.

      • Juicer77

        They almost always leave the hands and feet so ID won’t be a problem.

    • Juicer77

      Purr purr purr. Congrats to you and the lucky feline!

      • Juicer77

        (f5) 🙂

    • Science Doc

      Good on you! He might have 10 more years to love.

    • L. C. Spencer

      I knew you were the right sort! congratulations.

    • Cupcakes for Breakfast

      Congrats on the new “baby”! How wonderful of you to adopt an older cat too. Wishing you many happy, purry years together.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      “Jinx” as in Bobby Durst? 😉

      • generic sock account

        “Jinx” as in “I have nipples, Focker. Can you milk me?”

      • Ardent

        Nooo, although I made that connection. I think it was “Jinx” as in “I hates meeces to pieces” cat. I didn’t name him.

  • BeezleBobby

    It’s not just me, that Dianetics jacket is totally cool, right? My only worry – apart from cost – is that everyone would miss the irony.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    An awful article in the Houston Chronicle by a “useful idiot” as 3D baptized him ( too kind, in my opinion) was linked earlier today.
    A Ph.D student in religion – what is it with comparative religion and apologists?
    Not all of them, for sure, not by a long shot, but ….
    http://blog.chron.com/sacredduty/2015/03/sympathizing-with-scientology/#comment-6228

    No trolls thus far.
    Synthia Fagen and I have had our comments published – it took hours.
    Add to the entheta if you can 🙂

    • Dale A.

      I added a 2 line reply. Time will tell.

    • Mymy88

      Dang! They want my address in order to set up an account. I should have checked that BEFORE I wrote the comment. It’s always the school of hard knocks for me. Anyway, I’ll post the comment here just in case anyone can figure out a way I can post it without having to use my f’n address in order to register.

      Mr. Chitwood,

      You must have fallen asleep while you were listening to the audio book ‘Going Clear’, because I can’t think how you would consider such an organization to be deserving of respect from anybody.

      The following is something that Scientology holds as one of their most sacred tenets which they follow to this day:

      *********************************** Scientology Tenet ************************************

      “ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

      – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard
      Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967

      [SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]

      “The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.
      THIS P/L DOES NOT CANCEL ANY POLICY ON THE TREATMENT OR HANDLING OF AN SP (suppressive person).

      **************************** (END) ***************************

      In other words, they cancelled this policy but really didn’t cancel it, because at the bottom it is basically saying, a person must first be ‘officially’ declared to be an SP (supressive person)’ before wrecking their lives in any way possible, commences. So the only difference is, anybody that the church decides to go after, must be declared to be an SP (suppressive person).

      The ‘Church of Scientology’ can declare anyone they feel like, an ‘SP’ (suppressive person). They do it all the time.

      It is shocking when you learn about the many atrocities this cult commits in the name of feeling they are so above criticism, they can do anything they want, to anybody, who dares utter a word against them.

      Did you know that 98% of the American news media since the 90’s have been too terrified of Scientology to dare breath a peep of ANY news reports pertaining to criticism against the church, because of threats? And that stands to this day.

      Only in recent weeks has the grip of fear began to loosen on the media, as more and more people come forth to speak out against the church and tell their horror stories. It’s like a house of cards and very soon the house will fall. Then no one in the news media will fear Scientology, any longer; and thank goodness for that.

      I ask that you apologize to your faithful readers, for giving such horrendous advice.

  • Little David

    “Totalitarian organizations run by sociopaths never have a succession plan. The megalomaniac in charge simply cannot imagine himself no longer in control.

    L. Ron Hubbard never had a succession plan in place. He couldn’t for a minute imagine someone else running Scientology.”

    LRH’s phantasy was that he would always be in charge so why would he need a succession plan? That’s why they have and maintain homes for him to live in.

    David Miscavige said:

    “Never has he been more prominent,” Mr. Miscavige told the gathering of Scientologists. “Never more manifestly evident. Never closer to the consciousness of seven billion people on Earth. So not to overstate it, not to stretch the point, but, the fact is, LRH is everywhere this evening.”

  • Fred G. Haseney

    Forgive me if this has been posted to the UB before.

    Here’s a handy flow chart for choosing your religion. Check out the column on the right! Start at the top with, “How many Gods do you want to worship?”; then select, “None”; go down an arrow to, “Are you rich and insane?”; if you select, “Yes,” go down an arrow to, “Be a Scientologist”!

    https://wheelsms.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/comparative-religions/

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      It’s always a good one. Thx.

  • Super Power Wogsy

    Okay so….let me know if this is correct forum to ask this question. I’m open to your criticism. So ever since I left Scientology, I have had to do some deep reflection about my life, my actions, my goals and my future. I know it takes some considerable rebuilding of self-esteem, trust and other stuff etc. All the exes probably know what I’m talking about. However, I am coming of age where I am questioning my desire to be a mother. Ever since I left Scientology, I have also questioned my capabilities to make rational decisions and I feel some fear about raising a child. Also want to get my Masters in Applied Behavior Analysis not only to bring awareness about Autism but also to undertand human behavior as I truly believe cults utilize behavioral techniqes to wrap their members in. I’m not yet 35, and I’m struggling with this issue. Just wondering am I the only one????? Thoughts comments ideas….

    • generic sock account

      You can adopt me if you want. But I’m not eating your stupid vegetables.

      • Super Power Wogsy

        I have thought about adoption actually. As long as you can clean your own poop, cook and clean. i’ll sign the paperwork. Oh and Kale is a requirement. sorry…better luck next adoption round.

        • generic sock account

          What the hell is the point of having a mom if I have to do all that myself? No deal.

          • Super Power Wogsy

            …well that was easy…*snickers*

    • Only you can decide what is right for you, but if you want to be a mom, do it! No one goes into it “perfectly ready or free of fear 🙂

      • Super Power Wogsy

        I’m not yet 33. But the future dating…schmooozing…pretending to be likeable, girly is probably the biggest hurdle…lolol. On top of the trust issues, I’m honestly scared of having children. SCARED. I appreciate your feedback though. Someone once told me, you don’t miss the children you don’t have. Maybe I should stick to being an Aunt. At least I could give them back after spoiling them.

        • Super Power Wogsy

          …plus my eggs are decreasing in number significantly already.

          • Degrading too 🙁
            I’m almost afraid to have one now at 37.

            • Super Power Wogsy

              I know. Not only that but having a baby at my age, and the risk of all the complications…uuugh…scary.

            • Super Power Wogsy

              I hear you. People in my family have had babies after that age, and they were okay. but you never know.

            • 🙂

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Don’t feel obligated to have kids just because you’re reaching that womanly age. They are more than enough people in this world already. If school and educating the world holds your interest, go for it!

        • Kim O’Brien

          any person with any sense ..should be scared 😉 It shows that you do not take it lightly . That is a good thing

        • TheMirrorThetan

          You don’t have to worry yet. Try being 43 like Iam.
          I would love a kid, but I don’t want the father, just the kid, Iam quite happy on my own 🙂
          Sometimes I would think I would be a terrible Mum although all those who know me say Iam great with kids.

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      well i was never in but i am a mother. many women have the same questions.but when you have a child your mother instincts kicks in.and you will be more protective because of your experiences. if you decide to be a mom.let me tell you there is nothing that can compare to how wonderful it is.

    • Sid

      If you left Scientology then your basic decision making skills are intact. It can take some time and effort to unravel the rest. There is always some fear involved in raising children. I wouldn’t let that be the determining factor. Best of luck in whatever direction you choose.

    • Rasha

      Motherhood = Masters in Applied Behavior Analysis 😉

      • Super Power Wogsy

        oh no Rasha….you should see the negative reinforcement that takes place everyday! lol

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Since you’re already familiar with a big mest, I’d say you’re OK.

    • Kim O’Brien

      My daughter is 13 and i was in a relationship with a man when i got pregnant . They day i told him was the last time i saw him . He freaked out and i had this wave of peace come over me that has never left me . It is both the hardest ..AND the easiest thing that i have ever done . It takes your breath away , takes years off of your life ( ha ) and i would not change it for a second

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Damn Kim, that’s mest up. But seriously, wow he just up and left? What. A. Douche. Was his last name Cardone?

        • Kim O’Brien

          LOL .eewww .No Cardone for me -yuck . Yup , he totally freaked out . But i have never regretted it , ever. He missed out …she is so amazing , i LOVED being pregnant ..i loved being in labor ( 24 hours ..no pain meds ) She is the coolest person i have ever met. Every woman needs to be prepared to go it alone ..not because the guy is a douche …even prince charming can get hit by a bus .

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Knowing you have a problem is the first step to….yadda yadda yadda.

            • Kim O’Brien

              naw ..i just decided to be French and take a lover now and again LOL

            • vernabc

              Use them and abuse them, then send them on their way. I like how you think!!!

          • “Every woman needs to be prepared to go it alone ..not because the guy is a douche …even prince charming can get hit by a bus”

            ^^^

      • Super Power Wogsy

        Oh man Kim! I am glad you were able to experience the beauty of being a parent. Some guys can be a**holes!

    • Spackle Motion

      In my opinion, destructive cults like Scientology use horrid methods to break up the bonds between parent and child. I’ve read where some parents allow this to happen blindly either for their own narcissism/gain or some simply do not use critical thinking skills when turning over their children to a third party.

      Scientology also seems to ‘alleviate’ parental guilt over neglecting children and wrap into a palatable package of ‘saving the world’. If you recognize the destructive methods, apply your critical thinking skills (and be honest about your ability to put your child’s needs at the forefront of every decision) then your worries may be unfounded. It sounds like your worries are unfounded (to me).

      As for furthering your education, I say GO FOR IT. As long as you are at a real, accredited program that isn’t teaching more unscientific woo.

      • Super Power Wogsy

        No woo sir. All evidence based practice. Thank you.

    • ccyankee

      Im a never-in, but wanted to say congrats for having the strength to leave and for your wanting to bring awareness to autism. From what I understand, scientology says autism doesn’t exist and that anyone who displays symptoms is a degraded being. Just curious if this was a major reason why you left? As far as feeling confident about raising a child, anyone who has the strength to leave a cult certainly has strength to be a parent. Sounds like you have a plan for school and I would think you could bring unique insight into human behavior. Good luck!!

      • Super Power Wogsy

        Ironically, I did not know about Autism when I was in. I had heard about it but I was out for a few months before I started my job working with children who have autism which is where I got my experience. It was purely by chance that it worked out that way actually. Thank you. We will see what the future brings. No my reasons for leaving were something totally different. It is just an issue that has come up and mainly my concerns are related to being in a cult so I worry.

    • Dancing Cranberry

      I wish you all the best with your decision. I was scared to have a child as I had been raised in a harsh environment – lots of shaming, judging, mocking, etc. I was 36 by the time I was ready. I’m so glad I had my child – now a fine and decent young man. I’m so proud of him! When he was little, I surrounded myself with other people whose parenting skills I respected. This helped enormously.

    • aquaclara

      If you are worried, but want a baby, you will find your heart and your life opened exponentially. They tell you exactly what they need, and the warmth of a brand new baby is the very best experience in the world. If you choose to skip it, you are perfectly normal, not a bad person, will find other things to fill the time and space, and will have all the ability to have a happy life.

      I, bluntly, blew it, but recovered with several smart, talented and beautiful stepchildren and now a few incredible grandbabies. But I still wish I had not blown my own chance. This is life. You get the good stuff, the surprises, the crap and then the things you can’t control.

      Don’t be scared. You have all the smarts and energy and joy to care for a wonderful new little being. They look at you, and you’ll melt.

      Enjoy your choice. Good luck.

    • Mymy88

      I feel assured you would be an excellent mother. I also feel assured your life would be just as meaningful without children, because then you could dedicate more of your time and energy to helping others, which is also very fulfilling; for example, helping autism sufferers, that you mentioned.

    • Scream Nevermore

      I don’t think anyone *doesn’t* question their desire to be a mother, or a parent. It’s quite normal. I decided quite early on not to have any (and then found out I can’t have them anyway!) but every now and again I did wonder if I had done the right thing. With my old lady hat on, I would say finish your education to whatever standard you intend. You have plenty of time yet to be having babies! You’ll be happier doing so after you’ve finished your education, and won’t be left with a lingering ‘what if I’d done X, or Y first’ in the back of your mind. And thank you for choosing to work with autistic people. One of my nephews is on the spectrum, and the specialist help he and his parents have been able to access has made a world of difference in him. But there is always room for more help. And yes, learning the cult’s attitude to autism has helped keep me here, and Red X’ing. My nephew is beautiful, and no ‘degraded being’, and I pity them, because they will never know that.

    • Peggy oh!

      Hi superpower wogsy. I’ve been a lurker and this is my first post. I’m also a never in so you can take my insights with a huge grain of salt. For your motherhood concerns, it may help to know you are smack dab NORMAL! This is how a great many of us feel! I was so scared when I found out I was pregnant-I had never even kept a plant alive and I still frequently misplaced my wallet! And you have to keep track of a baby every minute! 🙂

      I think there is good advice ITT on the motherhood 🙂 On your second question, I am the mother of a child with autism.

      I have worked with many professionals. This choice is probably the most demanding physically and emotionally of any group of special needs children. Even medically fragile, and medically fragile children are extremely hard (I know many many families and professionals across the spectrum of special needs.) a

      I don’t want to discourage you in any way, as the needs for caring loving people like yourself is so desperately needed in the field of autism. But I would never recommend the field full time for someone recovering from PTSD, or anything really tough until they had some good space. That doesn’t mean don’t try volunteering or interning now, I’m just saying don’t invest in an expensive education with one end goal of working with children with autism as it might be too much, and it’s easy for us to blame ourselves, it’s so tricky and so difficult, and it seems that a common thread is how how $cio makes it’s members feel shame and blame and pain that is hard to get over. You don’t have to do it all at once-babies-school-fix children with autism 🙂 take your time, I bet you might feel loss at your lost time to this awful cult, but you have more time than you think! 🙂 keep taking good care of yourself as you are, let yourself let go of making the decision for a while and the answers will come to you. <3

      • Super Power Wogsy

        Hi Peggy! Welcome to the Bunker!: ) Sorry for the delayed response. This week for me is test week as I wrap up my semester. lol I really do beat myself up sometimes. My viewpoint is how am I gonna raise a child when I would rather be Bunkering lol. yeah I’m pretty all over the place lately. My memory has significantly decreased the past year. Doesn’t go well with my procrastination habits anymore lolol. I guess I’m kinda in denial about the PTSD thing. I’m barely managing to get a degree through all the emotional ups and downs, amd I am very hard on myself about it.

        I actually worked with children who have autism for 7 months, and you are right, it is tough. I worked full-time as well 4 months after leaving Scientology. The changes that I witnessed were pretty incredible though, and I am already on the Behavioral facebook pages, and I have always been fascinated with ABA ever since I learned what it was. I figured I might as well go where my mind wanders.

        After my internship, hopefully i will be able to settle down a bit and do some soul searching and nurturing before I start applying to grad school. But thank you so much for your response. I absolutely salute you for being a parent of child with autism. I can only imagine how difficult it is. I guess you are right. In some way I have been trying ot make up for lost time. Anyways thanks again for your response. It really does make me feel better that I am not the only questioning whether or not I’ll handle a little kiddo or the fact that I let my plants die as well, and that fact alone wouldn’t make me a bad person to raise a child lol ; )

        • Peggy oh!

          Your post made me get off my butt and find my old discus account and actually post! I was really worried it came off as harsh or discouraging! Which I didn’t mean at all! But I really wanted to reassure you as well as encourage you not to push too hard.

          ABA is really interesting and has evolved quite a bit since my child was that age and it was impossible to get then. But they were still using aversives so you might not want to learn too much about Lovaas or it’s history! It May be a trigger! It broke my heart and made me weep for days. They have pretty much pulled out the most useful aspects of it now, and left the horrors behind.

          The rewards of raising or working with children or adults with autism are very great. But even when we do everything right there are many painful set backs and experiences. Very many. It can be absolutely crushing at times. And for long periods of time, without break sometimes. I see how devoted and unselfish you exes are, and I do believe healing can go in tandem with helping others, as well it would probably be great to work for a truly worthwhile cause after working so hard at a cruel illusion of a cause. It breaks my heart.

          Take good care of yourself! Your dreams are not impossible! I am sure the kids and families you worked with appreciate you very much. (We don’t stop appreciating even years after good people have worked with our kids- We REMEMBER them always. I will feel my heartfelt gratitude for them until the day I die.) Peace and love!

  • I’m only going to talk about the one scenario – incapacitation (or death).

    So something happens, and David Miscavige is either dead, or on life support. What happens next depends on whether or not he has a will (or a living will).

    If he does, there are limits to what the will can contain. I don’t know California law, but in some jurisdictions the deceased cannot write family out of the will, specifically spouse and children. There are no children (that we know of), so legal limitations would apply to spouse only, which means that Shelly would be involved.

    Which leads us to no will – in that case law is clear. His surviving family, in this case his wife, would inherit everything. This would not necessarily mean she would become the next Chairman of the Board, but it would put Shelly in control of any accounts held in his name.

    This is what should have happened in the case of L. Ron Hubbard, however the last minute will (of dubious legality) killed that.

    But in the Hubbard case, there were people who hadn’t been beaten done to take action. In the case of David Miscavige, the only person who might not be totally destroyed who is near him is Lou. Lou could fake up a will which would move the cash to her (and if she has his passwords, she could empty the accounts really quickly before anyone knew there were accounts to look for).

    Of course it is always possible Lou could decide to hasten Miscavige on his way…

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Miscavige (or someone around him who wanted the leadership for him/herself) could also engineer a divorce with Shelly if he became ill…she’s so beaten down at this point she’d sign anything. I can’t see him leaving everything to her – the man holds eternal grudges – unless his death or incapacitation is sudden. OR – are they already secretly, quietly divorced?

      • I’ve never heard of a divorce case so secret at it wouldn’t be in public records at all. In the Jeri Ryan divorce case, the child custody records were sealed by agreement of both her and her ex, but aside from the records of cc or alimony, I haven’t heard of a divorce being a secret thing here in the Golden State.

        • Robert Eckert

          It can’t be. The entire point of the marital status is the public acknowledgement. It has to be a matter of record whether two people are, or are not, presently married (however much the details of any settlement are kept secret).

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            Well there you go. IANAL, obviously!

      • Ella Raitch

        He’s probably got signed papers already in his safe

    • His wife, sister, and niece would be line to inheret whatever worldly goods he leaves behind, because I know from experience that if someone dies intestate in CA, the next in line to inherit are the family members. Shelly would get half, and his relatives would get to divide the remaining half.

    • what makes you think that there are accounts in the name of Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige?

      To me, it’s all hidden away in off-shore companies and bank accounts in tax havens.

      • Yeah, but Miscavige has records. Somewhere. Find where he hides the info, and you (or Shelly) have found the loot.

  • what’suppressive

    Apologies if it’s already been said downthread. Is that jacket available in the National Lampoon version?

  • My take: Similar to dead L Ron, Miss Cabbage will find a way to destroy every aspect of Scientology using L Ron admin technology. John P. is one of the few people that I know of that correctly labels L Ron’s administrative technology for what it is, antiquated rubbish. By it’s very nature, the policies of Scientology will never change because they are not allowed to change. Public perception of Scientology as an evil cult will continue and even increase. Over time Scientology will simply be shamed out of existence or reduced to a storefront. As far as Miss Cabbage is concerned, I do believe he will end up in prison for the murders he has either caused or allowed to happen in Scientology.

    • Sarah James

      +1

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    FIXED IT!
    (refresh)

    • Wow. You have some mad skillz, 3D.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        My momma taught me how to sew…

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      My inner middle-schooler wants to add the words “Fart through it” down near the hem…

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I was thinking more along the lines of:

        Get it
        Wipe it.
        Diuretics.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Diuretics the science of matter over mind- Repo Man

        • Mymy88

          LOL!

      • Ardent

        I hate book-burning, but:
        “get it”
        “Burn it”
        “Dianetics”
        appeals to my inner barbarian.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I’m back in our amazing hotel room waiting for room service.. I don’t want to spoil anything for everybody else, so I’m only going to say that it was worth the wait and was as good as I anticipated.. And once the movie started, it was standing room only..

    Oops.. Gotta go.. Shrimp cocktail is here..

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      That’s it?!?!?!? You leave us for shrimp? Dayum.

      • generic sock account

        I didn’t know leaving for shrimp cocktail was an option. But I would definitely do that.

      • sugarplumfairy

        I will say this: and spoiler alert for anyone who’s interested.. Tony is awesome of course.. But he discloses just a tiny bit of the harassment that coFs has subjected him to.. Made me wanna smack somebody.. The movie itself made me wanna smack cruise, travolta, the petty little bitch, the squirrel busters, tommy davis, the ex wives of Rinder, Rathbun and Devocht, and a whole bunch more.. I’m going to drink now and calm down..

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Alright, enjoy. I guess that was enough to get you off the hook….just barely.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Ok, one more thing.. And I swear I’ll shut up: thank god for Jason Beghe and Paul Haggis.. And everyone else, of course.. But the celebrities coming out was attention-getting.. I learned tonight that If Beghe had come out like Leah, Marty Rathbun might not have started speaking up; and we’ve all known that without Haggis, Lawrence Wright might not have gotten hooked.. Ok.. That is all, I promise..

            • aquaclara

              Enjoy the shrimp cocktail, room service and the glow from an incredible new movie. But wow, the close connections that have triggered this event are remarkable.

              I’m so glad you had a good time and are ready for the smack down. I had a feeling there would be more to this movie than the history of Hubbard. The Fair Game stuff is awful. If there were a way to stop them from bothering our favorite Proprietor, I wish I knew what it was.

              Thank you.

        • noseinabk
    • Super Power Wogsy

      i huuuuuurrrdddd dat…..

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Hello Fairy – waves!

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I need to vote for the grant but I cannot remember where it is located. Anyone here that can help me?

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      I think it’s over. Kittehs and wounded warriors won!

      • Sid

        No, they are into the second round of voting which ends on the 31st.

      • generic sock account

        It’s looking like a landslide victory at this point, so it is over in that sense. But might as well keep voting til it officially closes.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Good advice you smelly, old sock.

          • generic sock account

            The buttplug calling the sock smelly. That’s a good update to the old pot/kettle line. 🙂

        • Zana

          Absolutely KEEP VOTING.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        KEEP VOTING.

        There are millions and millions of Scientologists we have to keep ahead of…!

    • generic sock account
      • Douglas D. Douglas

        THANK YOU!

      • Zana

        Thank you for reminding me!!! I just voted!

    • Sid

      I just voted also. I saw it being pushed by a prominent Scientologist as they are connected to the MLK Center.

  • Lady Squash

    My end of days scenario: I can see the “Church” continuing to operate like the Missions used to. Gone would be International Management and the Sea Org. Just local Church’s delivering services–no fund raising, no human rights violations, no disconnection, no Hole. Just self-improvement stuff. A strong executive with lots of enthusiasm could pull it off. The Independent field might be able to swoop in and make it work. As for the billions in reserves and how the transition would happen, I have no idea.

  • Ben Franklin

    This is out of topic for today’s post, but, I have a burning question that I hope someone may be able to help me out with. Are there any connections between Jehovah’s witness and Scientology? Did some of the early followers of Scientology come from Jehovah’s witness. The reason why I am very curious to know is because I came across the videos below recorded by an ex-member of Jehovah’s witness (watchtower co.), and what he describes is eerily similar to Scientology.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxOWEWbnCDM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLMuIbJ0ikQ

    • Todd Tomorrow

      No, JW’s have been around a long time. I think the Scions got the idea of the real estate idea from the Jw’s. Their scam is much more profitable, however, actually using their tax free status to flip real estate. Shunning like disconnection are similar and possibly the clams got that idea from them. Relatives are starting to be ripped apart by people who will not talk to their loved ones at an alarming rate do to the increasing number of people who are fleeing the controlling JW’s. When I first started getting involved in activism against the clams, I started getting numerous JW’s who wanted to tell their stories. To this day I still here from a family in England whom just went to their Mother’s funeral. The JW’s would not talk to her or her children or sit anywhere near them at her mother’s service. JW’s have tons of money in real estate and investments although their membership has seemed to have been going down. People were arrested in the 50’s, I remember who protested the church claiming it was just a scam. Like the Moron church you are levied a 10% flat tax.

      • Ben Franklin

        What I found surprising is how similar the control mechanisms are. The brainwashing tactics, the disconnection policy etc. almost identical.

        • I read this in an old paperback version before this version was published:

          At first, the Watchtower Society seemed harmless to William J. Schnell, even valuable as a way to develop his faith in God and pass it on to others. This book is Schnell’s fascinating account of his involvement with the cult, which effectively enticed him in the 1920s and continues to lure countless individuals today. Readers will learn, as Schnell did, that the Jehovah’s Witness religion he had joined was anything but innocent. For thirty years he was enslaved by one of the most totalitarian religions of our day, and his story of finally becoming free is riveting.

          http://www.amazon.com/Years-Watchtower-Slave-Confessions-Converted/dp/0801063841

          • Scream Nevermore

            I just had someone knock on my door, and offer me an invitation to ‘a really important event, that you HAVE to attend’. Now, I really dislike being told I HAVE to do anything. It’s part of a redhead’s DNA. When I asked what event, she gave me a really Scino smile and said ‘we’re Jehovah’s Witnesses, and…’ ‘No thank you,’ I said, firmly returning her leaflet to her, and closing the door. I watched through the peephole as she glared at my front door, then walked away. That’s set me up nicely for the eclipse, and my breakfast!

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          Read Lifton’s original treatise about coercive groups. It explains the commonalities.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          I watched a documentary a few years back and they were always ready for the doomsday which would be predicted. People who actually needed to plant food to eat would stop and sure enough the end of the world wouldn’t come. This I think happened three times before they went through a reorganization. Seems people are dubious to call them a cult, which they are, because of their god/jesus bible crap. So when the anon movement went after the COS the people who had been abused in the church tried to get help. You can’t be gay, lesbian, drunk(although you can tea total?) because” man was basically born bad.” I think all religions are born to control and manipulate people. Look at the Catholic church and their stance on abortion. Even if you are raped by your brother you should just have the baby and oh pay us money.

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            Did you know that happened in the year 1000? There was an apocalyptic group who were so convinced the world would end at the first millennium that they all sewed themselves into their death shrouds (which probably made for a rather embarrassing morning after.) Of course like most cultists, I’m sure there were a bunch of die hards who decided that they’d personally been spared through some special feature of their group. That’s how cultists roll.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              It must have been really strange the first time you had to pee. Thinking, “Do I just loosen some of these loose stiches in the back or just sully my shroud?”

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              I just picture this group of people who had gone to the mountain top to await the second coming waking up in the morning and walking around sewed into their sacks, bumping into each other like little kids who can’t find their way out of their Halloween ghost sheets. And then that awkward moment when they finally worm their way out and meet each others eyes. I mean, what is the appropriate thing to say at such a moment?

            • dungeon master

              Are we there yet?

            • Zana

              Are we dead yet?

          • One of their slogans was, “Millions now living will never die!”

            Pretty catchy.

          • Ben Franklin

            Jehovah’s Witness is definitely a cult. I think Scientology may have borrowed some things from Jehova’s Witness. Even the sign on the watchtower building is almost the same as the signs on some Scientology buildings such as the Celebrity center

            • Todd Tomorrow

              He was grasping at straws at that point. Not only was a cross used but their dressed their clergy in Catholic Priest, uniforms. I think I remember seeing Heber, mucking up for the camera. With these laws so vague when it comes to religion it would be interesting to get a forensic acct. to see how much the COS has saved by being tax free. Lets just agree that they probably have come close to buying a country several times.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Coercive cults tend to have a lot of the same characteristics. That’s how you can tell ’em from the bigger tent religions.

    • sumertin

      Ben, watch this video. It brilliantly exposes many of the tactics that all such groups use to enforce their control:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-Hms7bHqY

      • Todd Tomorrow

        I love this one.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Ben,
      This guy is great! As I mentioned above I’ve heard from a few of these people who have left and although steadfast in their decision remain heart broken over their loss of loved ones. One thing I otice is they tend to get very emotional and cry about their shunning even years later. The lady in England couldn’t believe that her sister’s, although made subtle chit chat with her would not even speak to her 5 and seven year old girls at her mum’s funeral. Luckily, she has a wonderful husband who she made the decision to leave with to stand by her. Sadly, she regrets not being able to go back and have a relationship with her mother. Their shunning will still allow superficial talks on the phone on occasion, unlike $cions who are not allowed to see and or talk to them at all. But she was close to her mother until she left the church and always hoped that they could reach a middle ground. It never happened and now she is dead. Life is too short and it seems that these cults would learn this lesson.

  • PoisonIvyHerself

    Your analysis is so smart Tony. It reminds me just how well you know this subject inside and out.

    If I were to throw a scenario out there, it would go something like this – the civil suits continue to pile on the cult, doing the heavy lifting of gathering evidence, until either the FBI and/or the IRS and/or Homeland Security (human trafficking, anyone?) finally decide to grow a spine and attack them through the criminal court system. They’ve only been able to get away with this for so long because there was no intrepid hero in the government who refused to stop digging until s/he hit paydirt – no Eliot Ness to Miscavige’s Al Capone, no Morris Dees to the KKK. Wishfully assuming that could happen, and their tax exempt status is taken away, Miscavige (assuming he’s got no personal criminal charges against him) will have to circle the wagons, consolidate and sell off as many assets as he can in a hurry, grab his go-bag of cash out of that airport locker and disappear in Tom or Travolta’s private jet. Some people claim Enron’s Ken Lay faked his death (I don’t personally think so, but it’s intriguing to imagine) and moved to some island; I wouldn’t put it past Miscavige to do that. I don’t know how long his followers would lie for him after the fact, however – after they’re freed from the hole and left blinking in the light of day, I don’t think his sway will linger as long as Hubbard’s did. He ruled by fear and once that fear is gone, people tend to get pissed off eventually. As for the rest of the cult, I’m guessing some die-hard whale will try and resurrect a version of it and morph it into something like a Hubbard version of a Prosperity Gospel Church, or maybe return it to its self-help roots. By that time, it’ll be smaller, humbler, and even if it still has a following of 15,000 or so, it will be sufficiently de-clawed to be much less toxic, kind of like Ron’s Church(?) is in Europe. Eventually it might fade away to a few followers who gather at a central point (Gold, or Clearwater) and that’s it. The money won’t pour in anything like it did before and it will become sort of curiosity for a handful of (probably rich) weirdos who want to become their own gods.

    What I look forward to (beyond of course families reunited and bodies, minds and souls set free) is when all the buildings CO$ has co-opted (and towns, like Clearwater) eventually revert to their pre-Scientology states. Free at last.

    • generic sock account

      I’ve spoken with a federal prosecutor about the human trafficking angle as it pertains to Scientology. I’m paraphrasing, but basically he said most of their cases involve coercion or physical force to transport a kidnapped victim across state lines, thus making it a federal crime. But he also said that’s not necessarily a requirement to make a case against them.

      The most important thing he said is that the FBI/DOJ’s focus, when it comes to human trafficking, is on shutting down child prostitution, and on the situations where human beings are literally traded and sold like property. It’s disgusting. So Scientology isn’t even on their radar. They’re going after the scumbag kiddie pimps, and I don’t see how anyone can fault them on that.

      I’m not saying this to you, PoisonIvy, I’m speaking in general when I say this: the United States Government is not an omnipresent force for justice. They can’t just swoop in and make everything right. They work on a fixed budget. They are just people with kids and mortgages. At work, they have priorities. Domestic terrorism, illegal gun trades, the drug and sex slave markets. Those are their priorities.

      So many people here question why the government hasn’t shut down Scientology, and the answer is simple. Like it or not, they are recognized as a religion. No one representing the government of the United States America wants to pursue this. No one wants to be the person associated with targeting religions in the nation that was built on religious freedom. No one likes Scientology. It’s a big joke. But no one wants to put their foot in this pile of shit. The government will not solve this.

      • Super Power Wogsy

        Amen

      • sumertin

        “the FBI/DOJ’s focus, when it comes to human trafficking, is on shutting down child prostitution, and on the situations where human beings are literally traded and sold like property. It’s disgusting. So Scientology isn’t even on their radar.

        Scientology is most certainly on their radar. Sea Org members, especially children, ARE being used like property and shuttled around the world to perform what is essentially slave labor. It is not the “religious” angle that is preventing the DoJ from acting, believe me. It’s far more complex than that. Action will be taken when the time is right.

        • generic sock account

          Well, I certainly hope you’re right and I’m wrong. But the moment they have evidence sufficient to make a case, their suspect is in handcuffs. That’s how they operate. “When the moment is right” means they have nothing or are not pursuing it at all.

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        I agree with you and with Tony – but I think what LE is waiting for is for all the heavy lifting of evidence gathering and on the record transcripts and testimony and audit reports and discovery to be done by the civil cases. That costs them no money but they have access to all those records. When enough cases on the civil side makes compelling enough arguments to get favorable rulings (tragically, we were hoping Garcia would have led the charge there), the DOJ/FBI will have something to go on and won’t have to deplete manpower. Like you said, they are waiting for the balance of power to shift.

        Yeah, I do wish the government was a force for justice sometimes. I know they’re undermanned and I have a close friend now retired who was very high up in the FBI, another close friend who is retired ATF who still does independent contracter work for them – and also a friend now in Homeland in the smuggling department. They have both told me that the mandate since 911 has been All Terrorism All The Time. All You Can Eat Terrorism. Bring your friends. I’m glad they are now FINALLY getting into sex trafficking. But a couple things – 1) Legally human trafficking is defined if someone brings or coerces you into the US on false pretenses and does not let you leave freely. Pretty much everyone who escapes says the SO takes your passport and locks it in a safe never to be seen again. Only law enforcement or the government is ever allowed to do that. That is very much by the book human trafficking, though it doesn’t have the glamor of sex slaves and innocent little children stolen (though I’m guessing quite a few of the foreign Sea Org slaves are underage). The government isn’t really that concerned about coerced foreign workers in, say, massage parlors, but some of those women/men are trafficked here, make no mistake. Today I read that wanna be sports stars – boys! – from other countries are being recruited this way. They get over here, the “team owners” confiscate their passports, and voilà. If there isn’t to be legal action against Scientology on this front, law enforcement should at least check on the status of the Sea Orgers they sponsor into this country.
        2) What’s so shocking to me about the fact that law enforcement looks the other way isn’t that the don’t want to get involved in persecuting a “religion” – it’s that this has been going on for SO long under their noses, it’s no secret, and they haven’t acted in all these years. The pattern of evidence is clear…but no one has been collecting the evidence.

        Evidence. Well, at least we know once the jig is up, they’ll be plenty of that!

        • generic sock account

          Lose your fastball, regain your passport.

      • Mymy88

        Child abuse under any circumstances, not acceptable. No excuse.

    • sumertin

      I don’t think the problem is a lack of guts in the Justice Dept, the problem is a lack of a sufficient budget to successfully prosecute the church – a prosecution that John P estimated could run up to $200 million.
      (Neither the KKK nor Al Capone had $3 billion in assets!)

      I think Tony’s assessment is correct in that these agencies are watching closely but allowing time for the church to further disintegrate, and they will likely strike when the time is right.

  • FOTF2012

    Here’s how it will go down. As electronic prisons inside mountains tend to do after 75 million years, Xenu’s prison will fail. He will emerge, pretty old and wizened and heavily bearded. Uniting the 4th, 5th, 6th, …., nth Invader Forces, he will build 3 billion and 61 DC-8s and head for Teegeack (Earth). Once here, he will institute the Tribulation, and rule Earth until all books, tapes, knowledge, and even every rumor of Scientology is erased forever. David Miscavige will be converted into a brain-wiped Mini-Me sock-puppet of Xenu, who by now looks like a skinny Santa whose knees have gone bad after 75 million years watching, without exercise and Clockwork Orange-like, ever repeating loops of Hubbard as a race car driver (Silver Streak, Red Comet, etc.). Once Earth is firmly in the control of the Psychs again, Xenu (might be spelled Xemu) heads off to wreak havoc throughout all the civilizations of the Milky Way guh-LAX-ee — our “island universe” to track down red-haired prophets or any rumors of a Bridge.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Bravo!

    • Super Power Wogsy

      Standing Ovation!

  • Sejanus

    Joy and Connor raised 8 million….not a fucking chance unless his daddy was there with 7.9 mill in loose change kicking around.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      But his real father Franc, has been secretly saving his security guard pay for years and is easily moved by Conner’s manipulative tactics.

      • Sejanus

        Can you even believe the horseshit this Joy To Her Own Little World puts out there?
        NO ONE KNOWS WHO SHE IS…..fuck.
        Hell of a good time being deluded I guess.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Your much to hardon her. She did a pilot in Denmark.

          • Sejanus

            Oh well then, that’s very different.
            Did she get a Danish version of an Emmy for it?…lol

  • Sejanus

    Get it
    Read it
    Shake your head in Disbelief While Laughing……

    continued on right sleeve…..

    …Hysterically As You Ask Yourself…..

    continued on front……

    Was This Guy NUTS?

  • Jonathan Cummings

    I am hoping that Going Clear will help more Scientologists still in see the big lie that is Scientology. I want so much for the families and friends forced to disconnect because of the cult’s cruel policies to reconnect. If everyone forced to disconnect would find each other and share their stories David Miscavige’s reign of terror would be over!

    • Paul V. Tupointeau

      Now that Davey has populated the ranks of the disconnected to such an extent, I would have to agree: disconnection is the trap Scientology has set for itself. The cult now depends on the success of the practice, but the more it is imposed – the more numerous the disconnected – the more dangerous they become. Davey can keep them out, but he can’t keep them apart. And he keeps adding to their number. If they organized and cooperated, they could bring the cult a lot of grief and eventually get through to the “still-in’s”. They could topple the house of cards.
      Unfortunately, the “still-in’s” won’t get to see Going Clear. They’ll be told not to watch, and they have learned blind obedience well enough. It will, however, dry up the supply of new recruits.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    If Hillary Clinton is elected President in 2016, who thinks that she is going to want the IRS or any other government agency revisiting what happened on Bill’s watch regarding the CO$ in 1993? Sorry, but I don’t. Counting on the Government to ride in like the cavalry and save the world from CO$ is a pipe dream, IMHO. I’d like to see it happen, but I won’t be holding my breath.

    • Tony Ortega

      The decision to start the negotiations for tax exemption (which experts tell me made it at that point a done deal, even though it took two more years of grueling work) was made by Fred Goldberg in 1991, the IRS Commissioner under President George H. W. Bush.

      There’s enough blame to go around for both Bush and Clinton.

      Which makes the 2016 election pretty interesting, if you’re concerned about who’s going to take over the reins of the IRS.

      Still, Barry’s still president until January 20, 2017. Maybe enough time for the IRS to get off its ass.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        What would some guy from Kenya know about our IRS…?

        (Running. Ducking. Covering.)

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Yes, I’d rather not have to wait until Obama is gone to have something happen. But if not, then I’d like to see someone stand up at a town hall meeting and ask the candidate, any candidate, about this issue.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          You know it could be you.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            Could be. But I’d like props – like copies of those 2 photos in Going Clear showing the CO$ and the IRS celebrating the CO$’s victory. I kept thinking about those while doing my taxes. Grrr.

        • generic sock account

          As Tina Fey said in her famous speech, “bitches get shit done.” Hillary is our only hope. Hillary 2016. Bitch is the new black.

      • edge

        I’d like to think the IRS would do something, but Miscavige still has billions in a slush fund that likely dwarfs the IRS’s legal budget, as John P Capitalist mentioned. I think there are still those in the IRS with notes about what happened last time, with hundreds of frivolous lawsuits filed by Scis, as well as OSA harassment that swamped the service. I like to think the IRS and FBI are watching, maybe just letting supply and demand do its work. Miscavige has to keep spending money to keep up the appearance of a public benefit even as few new people come in and the existing whales are tapped out, pass on or stop re-doing steps on the bridge. We know he’s loathe to dip in the Sea Org Reserves, so maybe the IRS is just waiting for clear evidence that bills aren’t being paid and reserves are running low.

        • MaxSpaceman

          I believe it was more than 2,000 lawsuits the C o S had going against the IRS.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Doubt that would be the deal breaker. Plus if Hilary get two terms watch out for her on the second. I heard a guy at lunch at the table declare”What makes people think we are ready for a woman president” Where I live talk like that is high treason. I wonder what the waitress had the cooks do to his plate of fish.

    • someone should mention to Trump that it would make him look good in his campaign if he said he’d look into scientology’s IRS situation (the whole country should be talking about it by then)…. then just sit back and enjoy: SCIENTOLOGY’S BLACK ARTS vs THE DONALD… the lulz just don’t better than that!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Lush, a death match pitting your two favorite villains against each other? You may unwillingly exteriorize from all of the excitement! But seriously, if voters do become outraged by the CO$ tax exemption after watching Going Clear, it would be great to see a respected candidate or politician address it. It would only take brave few and then they’d all be crawling over each trying to jump on the popular bandwagon.

      • generic sock account

        If Trump came out against Scientology, I would honestly consider joining the Sea Org. How much do those personality tests cost? They’re free, right?

  • Super Power Wogsy

    ***Red X Reminder RedX ***

    Last RedX post from Wogsy till June Bunkerites. It’s been a pleasure. If anyone else wants to take over the Redx postings at night, you are more than welcome too.

    RedX doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    (Refresh) Thx AegerPrimo

    • Super Power Wogsy

      My internship was officially approved, but instead of completing it in 2 1/2 month. I have to complete it in 8 weeks, so my schedule is going to be rough. i just want to let you know, all you guys have been my favoritist sexiest bitches the past month. Cheers to the end of Scientology, and here is a Tequila sunrise from the SPW kitchen to you. XoXo

      • Frodis73

        Congrats and good luck! I hope you have a great time while you’re working your butt off. Try and stop in and say hi once in awhile…tho I know how tough that will be. You will be missed!

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Thanks and good luck with those interns. I guess Frodis, already said this but do stop by and let us know how it is going! We’ll miss your teasing!

        • Pierrot

          Hi Todd, any chance of you taking over Wogsy’s RedX posting?

          • Todd Tomorrow

            Hi,
            What hours would it be PST? A couple of things might make it hard to do. But let me know. I thought she wasn’t leaving for quite awhile. I’d love to help anyway I can. panam747 at gmail

            • Pierrot

              Thanks todd, anytime after 4:30pm pst. I will keep your email handy.
              But if you are registered with wwp i will invite you to the conversation with the other posters. Where you can tell us when you are not available, or when you can do it.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              I can start on Thurday. I’m not around until 9p on Fri, Sat and Sun. I’ll register with WWP and then you can give me instructions? Thanks, T

      • Best wishes, Wogsy!

      • Zana

        Good luck. Do great. ! You will.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        “so my schedule is going to be rough.”
        Girl, you survived the CO$! Nothing will ever be rough enough to beat you, not now nor ever!
        CHEERS!

      • Pierrot

        Thanks Wogsy, go well and good luck.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    I could be wrong but the girl above in the dianetics jacket looks like she is leaving a subway. Be a shame if she got caught up in a crowded frenzy and fell onto the tracks. It’s like my Grandpa said,”Todd never yell movie in a crowded fire house.”

    • Zana

      I wonder if she will ever be embarrassed that she wore that jacket. I would be.

  • outraged

    Verrry interesting article about how the Cruisers are spinning the fallout from Gone Clear.
    I think Tommy Boy does not know which end is up right now. He can’t leave the Cherch.
    But $cientology is not only a joke now but a lying abusive profit for only one black hole.

    He has to distract his fandom so why not use Katie and Suri. So disgusting. He is a lost cause.

    http://www.laineygossip.com/Katie-Holmes-and-Tom-Cruise-hate-each-other-according-to-TMZ-as-Jamie-Foxx-hand-holding-photos-surfaces/37939

    • glad to see that they realise TMZ is pro Cruise and and seemingly have a clam friendly employee… I think they’re going to get caught firing a major footbullet as all the PR minions behind the scenes go into into meltdown closer to the broadcast date…. can’t wait!

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Willow Smith And Jaden Smith Interview — The Five Most Bizarre Quotes

    What was meant to be an interview about their music quickly turned into a list of bizarre quotes.

    The first question Willow and Jaden were asked in the T Magazine
    interview was about time. The interviewer asked, “I’m curious about
    your experience of time. Do you feel like life is moving really quickly?
    Is your music one way to sort of turn it over and reflect on it?”

    Bizarre Quote #1 — Jaden Reflects On Concept Of Time

    “It’s relative to beings and other places. But on the
    level of being here on earth, if you are aware in a moment, one second
    can last a year. And if you are unaware, your whole childhood, your
    whole life can pass by in six seconds.”

    Another question promoted the next interesting response, this time
    from Willow — “What are some of the themes that recur in your work?”

    Bizarre Quote #2 — Willow Talks About Their Music

    “….the feeling of being like, this is a fragment of a holographic reality that a higher consciousness made.”

    The next notable quote also comes from Willow, who answered the question, “How have you gotten better?”

    Bizarre Quote #3 — Willow Babbles About Apples

    “…your mind has a duality to it. So when one thought goes
    into your mind, it’s not just one thought, it has to bounce off both
    hemispheres of the brain. When you’re thinking about something happy,
    you’re thinking about something sad. When you think about an apple, you
    also think about the opposite of an apple.”

    The interviewer brought up the notion of breathing — she states that it is a reoccurring idea in their songs.

    Bizarre Quote #4 — Jaden Talks About Babies And Heartbeats

    “When babies are born, their soft spots bump: It has,
    like, a heartbeat in it. That’s because energy is coming through their
    body, up and down. It’s prana energy because they still breathe through
    their stomach. They remember. Babies remember.”

    Another amazing quote came after a question about their musical collaboration.

    Bizarre Quote #5 — Willow Compares Their Voice’s To Chocolate

    “Me and Jaden just figured out that our voices sound like chocolate together. As good as chocolate tastes, it sounds that good.”

    Then came the subject of school.

    Bizarre Quote #6 — Jaden Says School Is Not Real

    “Here’s the deal: School is not authentic because it
    ends. It’s not true, it’s not real. Our learning will never end. The
    school that we go to every single morning, we will continue to go to.”

    HollywoodLifers, what did you think about Jaden and Willow’s interview? Which was your favorite quote? Comment below!

    • valshifter

      LOL, they lucky they don’t have to go to public school, thinking that way would get them in a lot of trouble.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        The public high school I went to was so rough that they let the Christian private School next door out 30 min before us every day so they could get safely home.
        These two wouldn’t have lasted long there the other kids would have made a meal out of them in minutes.

    • Rasha

      Thinking outside the brain…

    • Scream Nevermore

      I know they’re only kids, but they really, REALLY annoy me with all the bollocks they spout!

  • valshifter

    The insider just announced Tom C’s house for sell, they are speculating “he might be downsizing or he just needs the cash for some reason or other”, they also trow it in there that is the place that Suri and Kate “escaped” wait, from the busy life in LA, yeah right I know what you mean.

  • valshifter

    so how can we create a better world if is not thru a cult?

  • Todd Tomorrow
    • Viktoria

      Free labour! And btw is that guy in the uniform a bit tipsy? He slurs.

      • Andrew Robertson

        That is Captain Mike Napier, the most feared pirate captain on the Spanish Main, plying his wicked trade between Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao. He is unparalleled in extracting gold from any hapless and unsuspecting passengers foolish enough to seek a berth on the MV Freewinds in the vain hope of securing their eternity.

        As far as the slurred speech goes, perhaps Fleet Admiral Miscavige should reduce the daily rum ration for officers and crew.

        Andrew

        • Arrr!

          • Eivol Ekdal

            Double Arrr!

        • Viktoria

          Disappointed. He could have at least wore an eye patch.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      What the ever loving fuckstick does “A 600% increase in the ability to handle randomity” even mean?
      Or this “It is one being being more able to do what he is doing than another is.”

      • Scream Nevermore

        That’s a whole load of Scientology bollocks right there!

    • Ella Raitch

      Love that motivational video soundtrack. So theta!

  • That NBC’s vid with Mark Rathbun that keeps disappearing is on Youtube now:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkDPf8M_Ni8

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Thanks Dodo, I was looking for it.

    • Scream Nevermore

      This vid has to be kept online. It will horrify so many people that the treatment the Hubbardists (thank you, Russia!) inflict on dissenters can reduce a man to tears, and make him feel that he can’t make friends with his neighbours, to protect them. Powerful stuff. Though I doubt that’s much of a comfort to Marty.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+** RED X ** +–+ RED X *** Friday the 20th of March
    Good morning Early Birds and Night Owls,
    Statsday: Only SFBay has managed more than an handful of removals, the other cities have not scored.

    Do not forget your daily vote in the Milner’s jumpstart competition: http://www.milner.com/jumpstart/jumpstart-tampa , The consensus is that we should vote for “Wounded Warrior” AND “Humane Society”, it is your choice.

    See instructions and links at wwp: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-119#post-2519486
    RedX spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    FREELOADER Debt is ILLEGAL and CAN’T BE ENFORCED.
    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    (F5, …for) HUH? by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/13356287933/in/set-72157642802079293

    • BraveBloggers

      TY for the remind. Looks like WW and Humane are in the lead!

  • 9 Days

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Eclipse…

    • Graham

      Looking at it now, here in south of UK. Sunlight struggling to get through quite heavy but patchy cloud. Sun seems to be about 85% covered yet it’s still clear daylight, with just a slight grey tinge to the light.

      • Scream Nevermore

        It got quite grey and twilighty here, but it’s cloudy so couldn’t see the sun. Brightening up again now. Bit of an anti-climax!

        • generic sock account

          If only the UK controlled its weather like the US does, you’d have a great eclipse experience.

    • generic sock account

      Yeah, right. I’m no fool. I’m not looking at that.

      • It’s raining in Ohio.

        • generic sock account

          Not where I am. But I watched Cincy beat Purdue yesterday. Goddamn, that was an exciting finish.

          • Ohio is funny like that.

            • generic sock account

              If there’s one thing we’re known for, it’s being funny and beating Purdue. All the time.

      • flyonthewall

        Do you think Wogsy rides the trolley to work?

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I’m skeptical.

    In the early 1980s, with Mary Sue going to prison, and Hubbard himself should have been joining her, I was Sea Org at Flag Clearwater, thinking to myself, well even if “we” lost it “all”, to the IRS, to LRH going to prison, still, in my mind was the “tech”.

    So, in even worse times, in terms of real threats to the really top people (MSH and LRH, and DM was just a pushy teenager not yet close to top power), I don’t think even DM “losing” will have any dent in true believers’ minds.

    And there are still a lot of wealthier, middle and upper middle class Scientologists, true believers, who still would in their unique way pick up the pieces, even if Scientology lost DM somehow, and if they lost their wealth to refunds or even lost their tax exempt status.

    What really is still out there, on the books (literally, if one was ever a “real”[absurd in my view today] Scientologist “tech” person dedicated to doing the Hubbard pseudo-therapy/exorcism/administrative ideas) are all of Hubbard’s works, and he laid out the general still never really appreciated but behind the scenes boring detailed procedures for training on his “tech” and doing it on themselves.

    I think the persons who should be asked, on the big questions, are like the people I was, people who I can attest would STILL keep on being a Scientologist, despite the abusive illegal jailed top leaders being jailed and losing all the movement’s money.

    Because in the back of my then (not now, I’m atheist now) mind was the “tech”, the pseudo-therapy/exorcism tech that supposedly does spiritual wonders (of course it doesn’t, but they believe it does).

    David Miscavige’s last 30 years is NOT the “tech”, it’s just his era of trying to build up the buildings and settings of Scientology.

    The part of Scientology that the followers, I was one and I was even privately NOT worried like even I later learned Hubbard was pretty worried, I just thought he was shortsighted, since the “tech” of the movement transcends and is on paper, in books, etc, and will outlive all the human fuckups and absurdities.

    Auditing, which is Scientology’s pseud-therapy and it’s for sure just a crank therapy that’s under the cover of religion in the US, but it’s gonna outline and is something to cling to, even if the churches all fail and bad leaders like DM come and go.

    I remember when I was a hardcore dupe, even more duped that the defecting leaders, I lived that experience, in the eary 1980s.

    So I’m still skeptical that the movement will neatly collapse due to the great and benchmark media and movies coming out on Scientology.

    • Synthia Fagen

      Do you mean more than the monumental reaction he’s having right now?

    • Missionary Kid

      I agree that there will always be the dedicated individuals that believe in the “tech” that will carry on.

      I believe, that the collapse will come, not in the number of people who are true believers, but organizationally.

      When you were in and the crisis hit, with the threat of LRH going to jail, there were many more $cientologists than there are now. You’ve pointed out that what DM has been doing over the last 30 years is not what LRH taught. If that is true, many of the true believers in the LRH tech have left and been declared.

      Once on the outside, they have only had limited success in forming indie groups. One big part of that is the fair gaming by $cientology. I believe also that once they are no longer under the brutal direct control of Co$, they’ve started to really think for themselves, and that’s one reason why there are so many different flavors of indies.

      Part of the reason that that Indies have many different interpretations of LRH tech is because LRH wrote a bunch of contradictory orders and observations. Each indie will claim to be the bearer of the “true tech,” yet they’re in conflict with others who have assumed a different interpretation. That’s similar to the fragmentation of the Christian “indie” movement, the protestants. Look at how many different interpretations of the biblical doctrine they developed, once they got out from under the thumb of Rome. They all claim that the Roman Catholic Church isn’t following the true “tech” of Jesus.

      Many have used the indie groups as a half-way house towards rejection of LRH. I think you’d agree that there are far more ex-$cientologists than $cientologists. Without the herd mentality that is enforced quite cruelly by Co$, exes don’t practice the “tech” as they once did. They aren’t forced into a mold like they were when they were in. They don’t have a unitary, top driven organization like Co$ to keep them in line.

      LRH designed $cientology to keep people in line by keeping them busy. They were involved in the whole Keeping $cientology Working, which meant living and proselytizing in the way he designated, and he created a huge set of steps for everyone to follow so that they would achieve the “goal” of being clear or clearing the planet. The steps are truly Byzantine to an outsider, but the steps involved in KSW, in my opinion, are make-work. When there were a lot more $cientologists, particularly for staff and sea org, many tasks could be accomplished by simply throwing bodies at a project because there was plenty of bodies.

      People were often moved around or “hatted” with different tasks, simply because they had some ability for a job, not because they were the best person. There were internal political and control reasons for putting someone in a job that had nothing to do with their competency. Someone might be a PTS, or associated with a PTS, and be removed from a job and be replaced by someone else

      Now, however, because of the rigid structure of the organization of $cientology, there aren’t excess bodies to accomplish many of the day to day tasks of the $cientology bureaucracy, and, let’s face it, $cientology, in spite of Hubbard management techniques, is as antiquated and creaky as any Soviet administration. The result is that sea org and staff are having to wear more and more “hats,” yet the same stupid reports are sent up lines and the same harassment comes back down for not meeting goals, but now, because more hats are worn by individuals, they are getting more crap from more sources for their failures.

      $cientology survived the crisis you cite because there were many dedicated people to KSW. Now, there aren’t the numbers of well-known people to smooth over the bumps. In addition, Hubbard took steps to make some changes enabled him to control things remotely. Miscavige has thrown people who could perform those duties into the hole. He may believe that he can pull them out to assume assignments at the same efficiency , but I maintain that the hole leaves a residue of PTSD and fear that inhibits effective administration.

      I predict that administrative collapse will result. There will always be people who will keep $cientology working. There will be plenty of money, but it will be wasted. The problem is that there will not be enough personnel to keep the organization working with any effectiveness.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        My views were always skewed overly “admin” wise for Hubbard’s volumes and volumes of organized admin solutions, but that admin angle has been discarded so exhaustively by Miscavige, Int doesn’t do what it used to do, HGB doesn’t do what it used to do, so you’re very right.

        Indie Scientology does “Mission’ level or organized Field Group level Scientology at most.

        It will be interested to see what happens, the old predictors of earlier seemingly more better times can’t be used anymore.

        Best to do as so many others concluded, sit back and see what they do next, or see what Misccavige whips and beats them to do next.

        The bad and good old days are history.

        We’re in need of new vocal ex members willing to pipe up.

        On a separate final note, there are a clique of Apollo vets, the final Apollo vets, at Int.

        A vocal defector from their ranks would be much appreciated!

        • Missionary Kid

          My sources aren’t that good, I’ve heard that the old timers that are still useful have been given what I see as make-work jobs to keep them busy. It’s a part of the thought-stopping process. The estimate is that there’s about 400 total at int, but my source is second or third hand.

          I don’t imagine that anything will be said to $cientologists about Going Clear. I’ll bet that sea org members in L.A. or Clearwater probably don’t even know it exists.

          While the prison of belief has to be pretty strong among the old timers, with all the self-censorship that they’ve perfected over the years, it’ll be the younger sea org workers who blow, in my opinion. I don’t think the Apollo vets, as long as they stay reasonably healthy, aren’t going to blow because they probably are suffering from a severe case of PTSD, combined with the fear they’re conditioned to accept to hold them in the $cientology corral.

          My opinions are just that. You probably know much more about what is going on than I do.

  • Vinay Agarwala

    Most likely Miscavige will go Type III and shall be forced into, or put in hiding. Somebody will be relaying his communications to the rest of the organization. That relay point will then take over.

  • Vinay Agarwala

    Replies to my post do not show up when I “view the discussion”. How do I see the replies or responses?

    • Vinay Agarwala

      Well, I figured it out. No response is needed.

  • Tony:

    “Totalitarian organizations run by sociopaths never have a succession plan. The megalomaniac in charge simply cannot imagine himself no longer in control”?

    What about North Korea and the Unification Church of Rev. Moon? Both had detailed succession plans. It is not uncommon for a “cult leader” to have an heir apparent, which is usually his or her child or loyal follower.

    Hubbard apparently had no such plan in place, but other charismatic leaders of authoritarian groups have thought ahead regarding the next leader that will preserve their legacy.

    It seems unlikely given recent history “that the IRS or the FBI ” will take down Scientology. They both seem to have abdicated any responsibility.

    Look at the net result of Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa effort to go after preachers with a penchant for jets and lavish estates they call “parsonages.” It ended with empty promises and some fo the televangelists simply told the senator to shut up. Their all still flying their jets and living large.

    It seems to me that cults some unscrupulous religious organizations can pretty much get away with almost anything in the United States. That’s why there are so many of them in the US, Many of the so-called “bygone cults” of the 1970s and 1980s haven’t gone anywhere. They just became so rich they appear to be untouchable.

    What a business. Free or almost free labor, no taxes and no accountability.

    But like you say it takes a “sociopath” with no conscience to run a cult and exploit people.

  • Natural Philosopher

    Miscavige will have the Sea Org Reserves (SOR) all wrapped up behind corporate shells that only he and his tight crony bunch of lawyers will have any access to. So don’t even imagine those funds will be there to bail out the sinking ship. If Miscavige goes overboard for any reason, the cabal of attornies will hide the dosh and let the ship sink. Realise the funds are majorly overseas, tucked away in shell corporations set up in small tax havens like Cyprus (well maybe they were smart and moved out of that before they took a bail-in). I agree with John P. There is not a chance that the trio of corporations set up in the famous ‘Corp sort-out’ would be set up to elect a new leader. All of their board members will have already signed their un-dated resignation document and parked that with the lawyers. So if any of them raise a finger to complain or propose a new leader or originate a take-over bid, then you can be sure that resignation document will be date stamped and they will be back in the Hole. The reserves flow up a channel of intercorporate transactions – precipitated by higher corporations billing the lower corps, and the funds disappear up a one-way funnel that ends up in a financial black hole that used to be called SOR. Would there be a chance that Reserves staff would blow the whistle? That’s an interesting question. They probably like life in the Bahamas or Jersey too much to give it up, but it is a nice concept. If Maureen Brigatti was still around she would have some interesting data to make known the world. One can only wish.

  • Spike Robinson

    Frankly, I think Davey’s gonna blow his brains out with one of his more expensive firearms… but that’s just my theory. Is anyone running a betting pool yet?

    However the Diminutive Dictator falls, I’d like to hope the following helped, even if just a little bit. Please share and enjoy.

    https://phoenyxrose.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/auntie-spike_s-protest-songbook.pdf

  • 0tessa

    Marty Rathbun’s new post: Miscavige ordered Rathbun to install taps in Tom Cruise’s home, while in divorce with Nicole Kidman.
    Miscavige has blackmail material to prevent Cruise from speaking.
    For some maybe old news, but now Rathbun spoke in an interview with Today.

  • HarmlessWeirdo

    Okay, I’m late to this thread, but might as well jump in the internet speculation pool.

    I personally think that David Miscavige’s likeliest fate is that one day he will raise his tiny fists against the wrong person–or people, even–and get the beating that’s been coming to him. Somebody with nothing left to lose is just going to snap after however many years of leading an insane, terrorized existence, and under the right circumstances I can see things going fatally wrong for little Davey.

    That, or someone close to him will experience that same snapping, but in super-sneaky slo-mo, and poison him.

    Or maybe the snap-ee will simply (and premeditatedly) shoot the little sociopath (and probably do him/herself in, while they’re at it).

    Short version: One of the beleaguered faithful will be the instrument of COB’s exteriorization.

    So who would take over? I’ll eat my laptop if there’s a succession plan in place, but who better to replace Miscavige than Bob Duggan? He’s Scientology’s single biggest backer by far, and has plenty of business acumen.

    Trouble is, Duggan’s a capable CEO–far too capable for Scientology. Given Scientology’s rigidly authoritarian, by-the-book, inflexible, and punitive “company culture,” all rooted in LRH’s gospel truth–which works to its detriment, and is destroying it from within–there is no place for a capable leader who can run the Co$ like a business instead of a totalitarian dictatorship. To do so would require an overhaul from the ground up of how the Co$ “company” is structured and how it is run, which would mean admitting LRH’s directives were…*gasp*–wrong. Yeah, like that’s going to happen. But the resulting schism between old-guard “LRH’s way!” faithful and a new, rational order of doing business could be just the thing to send the whole evil organization crashing to the ground.

    In the meantime, I’m stocking up on popcorn.

  • IL Luminacca

    interesting and somewhat related read, with a mention of the Scientology meltdown in the middle

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/27/what-happens-when-your-guru-disappears.html

  • Valhalkarie

    If it’s a religion it’s book,or bible if you will should not be copy writed, there are independant believers . This fact that they copywrite everything proves it’s a buisness!!!! Pictures of the author of the book are copy writed,so jesus the cross etc,should be copywrited? Helloooooooo!!!! It’s a buisness!!!!!!!