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Our man in Europe reports on Belgium’s criminal prosecution of Scientology

Scientology_BelgiumOur man in Paris, Jonny Jacobsen, has a report for us on how things are going in Belgium, where federal prosecutors will soon be making an important decision about Scientology in that country. Take it away, Jonny…

A Belgian court has begun considering whether two criminal investigations against Scientology, one dating back as far as 1997, should go to trial — and if so, who should be in the dock.

The Chambre de Conseil in Brussels is looking at two cases in which federal investigators laid charges not just against individual Scientologists, but the movement itself. Its hearings are expected to last four weeks.

As we reported at the time, late in 2012 federal prosecutors charged two senior executives and Scientology’s Brussels operation with fraud and other offences. That move came nearly four years after police raids on Scientology’s offices there.

The case sprang out of complaints by job-seekers to Actiris, the Brussels regional employment office, that the movement had used fake job offers to try to recruit new members. The jobs on offer turned out to be unpaid voluntary work. (For more details see this report at Infinite Complacency.)

 
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The other case under consideration is an investigation that is now more than 16 years old.

Although it was opened in 1997 it took until 2007 for federal prosecutors to charge 12 individuals and two Scientology organisations on charges ranging from fraud to the illegal practice of medicine.

The case got bogged down in procedural wrangling and ended up at the Chambre de Conseil. Last year, as Belgian media reports had anticipated, the court decided to merge the two cases.

Over the next few weeks it will decide if there is any case to answer, and if so whether the organisation itself or just individual officers should face trial.

There is nothing of course to stop it dismissing all or at least some of the charges — and given the time that has elapsed since the first investigation started, that seems a real possibility.

On the other hand, the French courts have shown that Scientology as an organisation can be successfully prosecuted. Scientology’s 2009 conviction for organised fraud was confirmed by the country’s highest court last year (though the movement is taking France to the European Court of Human Rights over the issue).

There are clear indications that the Belgian prosecutors have adopted a similar line to the one taken by French prosecutors.

The ubiquitous mnql1 has translated one of the Belgian media reports over at Why We Protest.

It comes from the daily Le Soir newspaper, but appears to be largely based on copy supplied by the Belga news agency. (A pity they feel the need to regurgitate Scientology’s claim of 12 million members, even if they couch it in the conditional tense.)

 
——————–

Jamie_DeWolfJamie DeWolf gets a nice boost from Upworthy, resulting in Facebook panic

We called up Jamie DeWolf Tuesday night when we saw that his 2011 monologue about his great-grandad, L. Ron Hubbard, had gotten the Upworthy treatment.

As longtime readers of the Bunker know well, Jamie’s riveting spoken-word performance is about the relationship of Hubbard to his oldest son, L. Ron Hubbard Jr., who was also known as “Nibs” and Ron DeWolf. Growing up, Jamie was close to his grandfather, who died in 1991. (Hubbard senior had died five years earlier, and Jamie never met his great-grandfather.)

When we talked to Jamie Tuesday night, the YouTube video had 80,000 views. With Upworthy’s help, that video has now been seen half a million times. (Not sure what Upworthy is? Here’s a good piece about why most journalists hate it with the heat of a thousand suns. But in this case, we’re happy Jamie got the boost.)

Jamie was excited to see how much the link would help get word out about his show. And we talked about some upcoming things he’s working on — but we’ll need to keep mum about them at this time. Jamie assured us that Bunker readers would be the first to know once he’s ready to talk about his plans.

Anyway, one of our readers sent us this screengrab from Facebook, which showed that Jamie’s newfound fame isn’t going down well with some church members…

 
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Touchy, touchy.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on January 11, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • DodoTheLaser

    Dear Mimi,

    Word clear “Streisand Effect”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    Before you do so, please tell your Facebook friends not to read http://www.tonyortega.org either.

    Love, Dodo.

    • AlphaRomeo

      Need help to know what was the outcome of second of Monique’s hearing?

      • AlphaRomeo

        no need to reply, got my answer from missionary kid – thx

    • i-Betty

      “Before you do so, please tell your Facebook friends not to read http://www.tonyortega.org either.”

      Hur hur 😛 Wonderful.

  • hansje brinker

    Well, I hope that “The Chambre de Conseil” in Brussels have studied the affidavit of Lawrence Brennan. It says everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5HYavczyc

    • DodoTheLaser

      Very important video. Thank you, Hansje.

      • hansje brinker

        Thanks!
        Not many people know this affidavit. More officials must know this.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Indeed.

    • Hi ‘Hansje’.

      If you look at the charged filed by Belgium’s prosecutors in the more recent case, it does not look as if they are going to be distracted by the debate over Scientology’s religious status. They wanted to go after Scientology and/or its senior officers for illegal practice of medicine; fraud; extorsion; forgery and use of false documents; violation of privacy; criminal organisation.

      How much of that, if any, will be retained by the Chambre, is anybody’s guess. My feeling that the main obstacle to any successful prosecution is the length of time it has taken to get these cases to court.

      As I explained in more detail in my earlier piece at Infinite Complacency (the link in the text above), the Belgian prosecutors appear to be taking a similar line to the French, attacking the movement on specific points of criminal law and sidestepping issues such a whether it’s a religious completely.

      • Observer

        Is the Belgian judicial system generally this slow, or have the prosecutors been dragging their feet?

        • I’m afraid I don’t know: my knowledge of these cases is limited to media reports: I’ve had trouble getting hold of the players in these cases.

          • Observer

            Thanks!

        • Yan117

          I find it hard to understand why it takes so many years to get justice in this case. Complex procedures no doubt, but to the layman’s eye, it feels like mountains grow faster than that. Hopefully it’s for the better.

      • hansje brinker

        Hi Jonathan,

        I see what you mean and I got it!

        But this affidavit is a nice “back-ground-information”. It also tells that this coverup of Religion is developed to avoid payments/ salary for its stafmembers. But I can see that they want real hard facts for fraud.

        Keep up the good work! Thanks to inform us!

        • You’re welcome: of course, so far as religious cloaking goes, it appears to have worked better in the US courts.

          • Great White Clam

            I noticed that about the US courts.

            Is the cult’s ‘religious cloaking device’ AKA the “emeter” protected as a “religious artifact” in the EU?

            • Not so far as I’m aware — and at the original Paris fraud trial, which ended in the movement’s conviction for organised fraud, the e-meter’s reputation took quite a beating. See for example ‘The E-Meter Experts’ at Infinite Complacency:
              http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/07/13-e-meter-experts_24.html

            • Betsy

              Sorry to bother you with this off-point question, but…what is the “Clam” thing? I keep seeing references to it (not just your name.) I read somewhere that it was a metaphor or something that LRH used, but…if you are willing to tell me the story I’d love to hear it.

            • Betsy

              Oh. My. God. I mean…Oh. My. God. What I want to say is…Oh. My. God. Sorry, vocabulary has suddenly disappeared in massive brain cell meltdown. Thanks…I think….

          • hansje brinker

            BTW. In The Netherlands the game if CoS can have tax benefits isn’t over yet. The most highest court is studiyng this case. But it is an another story.

            • Yes, I’ve been keeping half an eye on that one too: I’ve just not had the time to follow it up.

          • joan nieman

            Absolutely! I am proud of your country for their abilities to recognize a fraud for what it is and to do something about it. Thank you Jonathon for sharing with us.

      • Andrew Robertson

        I do wonder Jonny, that if Belgium was partitioned as has been often proposed, with the Flems joining the Netherlands and the Walloon’s became part of the Fifth Republic whether the prosecution of Scientology for various crimes might accelerate?

        Andrew

        • Andrew, that’s a whole different can of worms! With Scotland and Catalonia each planning an independence referendum, this year, I’m still trying to get my head around that. If Belgium did decide to fragment into its Francophone and Flemish constituent parts, I’ve no idea what that might mean for Europe — let alone for these cases!

  • Andrew Robertson

    Hey Mimi

    Are you hatted by JoJo to issue directives on who Scientologists are allowed to communicate with on Facebook?

    I hope you’re not overstepping your authority. The IJC (Continental) would take a dim view of that!

    ML

    Andrew

    • BosonStark

      Then warn her that if she isn’t hatted, she will need to report to Debbie Cook at Flag for security checking.

  • BosonStark

    “They just posted nasty stuff about our religion.” What is she, eight years old? But, ain’t that the truth. In his performance piece, Jamie covers many facets of just how nasty it has been coming to grips with his Hubbard legacy.

    If she wants super empowered ecclesiastical nasty, wait until she gets a load of Miscavige’s text messages! The truth can be eye opening to those clams stuck in the bubble. Soon, some geographical resettlement will be in order, or the Scientology public members will need to be ordered to Internet-free compounds to protect them from “entheta” of the truth.

    Boy, that job thing is something, isn’t it? Most people know that looking for a job can be a difficult experience, but to face that kind of bait and switch would be infuriating. Plus, it would be hard to tell them off, knowing that these freaks have your name and address when you come in for an interview.

    • Anonymous

      Although I would also caution not to underestimate the power of The Bubble.

      There is a not insignificant number of still-in folks that will believe that the Miscavige texts (if they are ever seen) show what an “effective” leader he is.

      The internal culture of Scientology is a foreign place: profanity, vulgarity, homophobia and racism are rampant in the day to day speech patterns of many Sea Org veterans. This can seep into the public milieu also, but usually to more shaded degree. Some companies managed by public Scientologists have internal cultures that would appall most “wogs.”

      John Sweeney was strongly demonized at all levels in Scientology for quite some time. He is an SP. Thus fair game applies and in the filthily depraved “ethics” of Scientology anything said about or done to him is justified. Miscavige will be seen as a hero to many for his conduct in that affair and his texts will be proof.

  • Molar Mountre

    I’ve been thinking up names for ex-$ci help groups. So far my favorite organization name is “People’s Organization Of Parishioner Freedom And Recovery Transition.” It makes a pretty good acronym…

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      You should keep thinking. I’ll bet you can do better than that.

      • Molar Mountre

        Certainly, that was just the one that made me giggle the most. How about: “Billionaires Against Billion Year Contracts, Rehabilitation, And Poverty”?

        • Mark

          “Rallying Organisation To Support Bigoted Arrogant Liars Like Scientologists”?

      • Commission On Human Understanding Directly, or C.H.U.D.

    • BosonStark

      Commission on Human Rights for Clams II

  • hansje brinker

    Well, I hope that nobody photo-shop my little brother in Brussels. Like me in Holland, he is a tourist attraction in Brussels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis

    • Andrew Robertson

      I suppose some Scientologists might be offended if I suggested that ‘Manneken Pis’ might be considered a metaphor for the way Captain Miscavige treats his devoted parishioners, but I’ll suggest it anyway.

      Andrew

      • hansje brinker

        Right! LoL

      • Deimos

        Is that like Trickle Down theory ?

        Captain Slappy consumes single malt at the top and average scilon gets ???? at the bottom.

        Now I would probably say some very rude words instead of ???? And your devoted Scilon would say “super powers and GAT II”.

        Probably the only time we’d absolutely agree..

    • Observer

      Yes, it would be terrible if someone did that …

      • hansje brinker

        Ouch!

      • Andrew Robertson

        Brilliant Ms Observer!

        Andrew

      • Modesto

        I’m sure that pipe is catering nicely to the Mannekenführer’s anal fixation …

      • Ten Aug

        Is there a shoop Olympics? Your like the Usain Bolt of shoppers.

        • Observer

          This one was easy, it only took about 20 minutes. Captain Blackheart took around 6 hours, and the New Year’s one almost 24.

          • Drat

            Awesome. You make it look so easy…

            • Observer

              Thanks! Fortunately my Introvert Super Power of Concentration makes all the piddly detail stuff fun rather than tedious. I suck at multitasking though.

            • Drat

              Multitasking as in a day at court with Monique and trying to cook at the same time? Me to. Totally.

          • joan nieman

            You do excellent work OBS and it makes the bunker so colorful and entertaining.

            • Observer

              Thank you! I’m just glad people like seeing them as much as I like doing them.

      • Qbird

        oh man…. Obs… sometimes…. I’m reading along, taking it all in
        & then you strike… like lightening…

        and i can NOT stop laughing.

        • Observer

          Then my work here is done! *unfurls cape, flies away*

      • joan nieman

        Oh OBSY1 You are good!!

    • DamOTclese2

      Some brass balls on that kid.

  • Racnad

    More proof that Scientology does not believe in freedom of speech, even if it is true or relevant. If he’s not really related to LRH, just say it and discredit him! Don’t just dismiss what he says as just “nasty.”

    • DamOTclese2

      Mimi was also not authorized to post that butthurtz, she exceeded her hatting. I have filed a KR on her SP ass.

      I mean how dare she deviate from KSW? Really.

  • aquaclara

    Thanks, Jonny. I hope that this will result in another stinging blow toScientology. Davey now has to use crib notes to keep his court cases straight, not to mention the lawyers themselves,

    • Ardent

      I suspect Davy-boy is so glued to media, his face would literally rip, if removed from his screen.

  • shasha40

    Good to see more countries trying to stop Scientology around the world, questioning the “religion ” aspect , they see through you tiny dick ! I hope Jamie has security 24/7 , I believe he’s going to need it . Great job Jamie , oh and you’re funny as Hell ! lol

  • How glorious that “the battlefield of Europe” is about to see the slaying of yet another foe which would have its people enslaved. These days, the primary weapons have changed from cannons to gavels but, it would seem, the duration of this current conflict could match the “Thirty Years’ War” by the time it is finished. Lets hope that the wheels of justice do indeed grind exceedingly fine and that by the time this is over Scientology is but atomised dust blowing in the winds of Europe. And lets hope too that the government and authorities of the United States, the so called guardians against the predation of innocent children are, finally, shamed into action. The issues are exactly the same, the lies being told by Scientology are exactly the same, and the tactics employed by Scientology are exactly the same. The only difference is that France and Belgium can tell the difference between a religion and an on-going international organised criminal conspiracy to defraud pretending to be a religion. At this stage, I see no reason why the Belgium authorities shouldn’t commence the extradition of Captain David “Black Heart” Miscavige. Perhaps the good judge Waldrip will be the one to finally pin the tail on the donkey when the preponderance of evidence in Mosey’s case makes apparent the extant “WHO” when it comes to accountability. France recognised the “WHO” in 1978 when the court there sentenced L Ron Hubbard to four years jail, although it was in absentia. Perhaps by the time Begium gets around to the sentencing hearing history will repeat. Personally, I would be quite happy with that outcome – provided Captain David “Black Heart” Miscavige is otherwise detained and busy washing Bubba’s underpants in some brutal Texas prison.

    Jamie DeWolf getting some serious click-love is the cherry-on-top of today’s fine offering from TonyO. Artists like Jamie have a way of reaching into people’s consciousness that keyboard warriors and pesky protesters like me have difficulty in reaching. His performance deserves to go viral on its own merits for its near visceral portrayal of a unique family relationship. The message it delivers about Scientology is another layer which, while it requires less contemplation, is also worthy of universal exposure. IMHO.

    http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/Vistaril/Belgium_zps970a6a53.gif?t=1389444868

    • aquaclara

      Love your comments,Vistaril. And from cannons to gavels, indeed.
      I hope we will see an extradition request this year for Captain Miscavige. And I hope that it fits in that oh-so-tightly booked ecclesiastical calendar of his, right after the depositions and courtroom appearances in Texas.

      • /derail

        Thank you. As always, you are too kind. I do try to contribute positively here. My strategy is to (as far as I am able) remember the lulz, ignore the trolls, keep the peace, avoid drama, and, in my own clumsy way, “add value” to the OP by various means. I usually just attempt to provide additional and/or background information which I feel could help any lurking n00bs or, because there is just so much to bear in mind with this subject, remind some of the old hands. Stuff like that, but to always “stay on target”. As up-myself as this may sound, yours is not the first compliment I have received. Each and every one stays with me and spurs me to continue but, being the typical emotionally constipated male that I am, I’m never quite sure how to respond. Do I just click the up arrow and hope that’s enough, or do I add to the clutter with a personal “ack”? In this case, at this time, I’m half cut so I’ve gone all schmaltzy and “oh, shucks”, and done both.

        : )

        • aquaclara

          🙂

    • Ardent

      What a superb post. Hats off to you, sir. I hope what you suggest comes true!
      Cheers!

  • Seannie5

    Ya, I’m sure Upworthy will be devastated to lose about 5 friends out of their 5,215, 683 ..
    Karic even provided the link to the story and gave them more clicks.
    I thought sci’s are not supposed to read that stuff anyway!
    Tsk Tsk, Karic!

    • Illinoisian

      “Karic even provided the link to the story”
      This makes me wonder how many ‘doubting’ Co$ members might be using this ploy to pass fascinating but forbidden info on to other members while remaining technically pure and ‘ethical.’ (Or do you think that someone might now have grounds to generate a Knowledge Report on Karic for providing directions to the nasty info?)

      • Seannie5

        That would be a good tactic as long as it didn’t get you into trouble. I guess he could be hauled in and questioned about his intentions? Especially now that it’s reached The Bunker. An ex will be able to answer that better than me.
        I honestly don’t know how scientologists can avoid the nasty stuff on the internet. It’s everywhere. Do they just follow fellow cultists, or what!

        • chukicita

          Back in 1998, Scn, Inc. had the “scieno sitter” censoring software – here’s a link to a WIkipedia article about that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scieno_Sitter

          • noseinabk

            The sad thing is that some scion’s would gladly volunteer to have a net nanny so they could avoid all that evil entheta.

      • Madora Pennington

        How can Karic not be tempted to watch??????

        • Illinoisian

          Yes, indeed. Human nature being what it is, a large portion of those reading Karic’s post must be tempted. This is, after all, the great-grandson of ‘Source.’ (And it’s such a beautiful and compelling performance, virtually guaranteed to ‘hook’ any viewer who watches the first half minute.)

    • InterestedinCrazy

      If you thought you had Dumb Chills for that poor lad in yesterday who thought his E-meter was a chick magnet….
      taken from his public fb page: https://www.facebook.com/KarricC
      Watch this wee Karic video…man of many talents? Haha, just so cringe-worthy!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryvIRoO2D4A

      • chukicita

        I have a problem with taunting children and youth who are expressing themselves creatively. I have seen what allowing and encouraging creativity can do to heal, help envision brighter futures and develop skills that will help kids rise above some really awful situations. There is just no place where bullying or making fun of kids creative efforts sits well with me.

        Every day I work with kids who are exploring music. I am aware that legions of young folks upload stuff they wish they hadn’t later – even those who have mad skillz. And I’m thankful I grew up before there was an internet, or I’d probably have done the same thing.

        • InterestedinCrazy

          Actually, you’re right. I didn’t see it that way and to be honest, I didn’t think of him as a ‘kid’…

          Unfortunately, however, I believe that his ‘really awful situation’ is being involved in Sci and quoting and admiring LRH.

          • chukicita

            I’m old, so most people are ‘kids’ to me 😀

            It seems to me that *most* people who call themselves Scientologists at some point decide to release that label and move on. He – and the boy from yesterday with his e-meter and raging hormones –
            are both going to have to face some difficult truths when the caca hits
            the fan for them. I wish them both the strength and support they will need.

            • InterestedinCrazy

              Agreed.

        • Seannie5

          “And I’m thankful I grew up before there was an internet”
          OMG, me too. I was a teen/early twenties when it became essential for every student to have their own laptop/daily access to internet. I could have made a right tit of myself if I was so inclined. I’m thankful for my lack of computer literacy and for my natural reticence. I have no idea how to upload a video to youtube nor would I ever want to. I do have a lot of sympathy for teens today. Sharing every aspect of their life seems so mundane and ordinary to them. Silly, youthful mistakes are recorded forever.

          • Peter

            OTOH….If one has the amount of success he has and is unaware the spotlight is shining on him 24/7, HOPING to catch him in a major no-no, he reallly is much more stupid than he looks.

            • Seannie5

              My logical side agrees with you. I read that he egged a neighbour’s house recently which is a total punk move. I just think he is surrounded by yes men and people egging him on (forgive the pun) and probably feels a bit invincible, and mixed with bravado of being 20 AND whatever substances he is taking it’s inevitably going to get messy. There has been people telling him he is going to be the next Michael Jackson since he was 13 years old. His parents should give him a good clip round the ear, but I don’t think they have much influence in his life any more. I read that his grandparents went on tour with him for a week or more and they only saw him twice, briefly! Billy Ray Cyrus admitted that he pretty much lost control of Miley once she became successful -the studios, managers etc had the ultimate say.

              Who on earth would want their child to be famous.

          • Betsy

            Oh, agreed, agreed, agreed! Kids (and when I say “kids” I think of myself until about the age of 30) are so clueless about the damage they can do to themselves. Every time we see another story about some teen who has been driven to suicide or trapped in a crime via activities in blogs and chat rooms, one of the most striking things is how desperate the poor things are to have everything they are, or can invent, out there. They may have the internet, but to most kids the world is still about as large as their own school.

            And not only kids. A friend’s elderly father recently got into a “lovely” epistolary relationship with a nice young Russian woman whose life was a tragedy…she found him on Facebook or somewhere and just wanted advice because he seemed so kindly. Her letters became the high point of every day for him. He was just about to send her several thousand dollars to leave Russia and come here to be with him when my friend intervened. The sweet young woman turned out to be a small industry of middle-aged Ukrainian women who were hitting on thousands of widowers in their 80s. He was heartbroken…she had been so nice…

            The best you could do when I was a teenager was a pen-pal in another country. After a few efforts to correspond in a foreign language the parties usually gave up.

            • Seannie5

              Poor man. They can be so convincing as we all know too well. Catherine Tate does a good skit on a lonely woman with a foreign lover that she has never met

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udnA0IkLTTM

            • Betsy

              This is BRILLIANT…I expect I’ll spend the rest of my Saturday going through her offerings on YouTube. It caught the cluelessness…and the sheer loneliness…perfectly. People are so vulnerable, frequently all they want is some sympathetic contact, and in the scary world of the internet that quality lays them open to absolute rape of the soul and/or the pocketbook. Thanks, thanks for sending this. Since I was never in Scientology much of what I heard in the beginning was just not believable, but things like this video give the picture wholeness. I really think that all of us, if we are not watchful and analytical, are probably vulnerable to something and someone, whether we think so or not. It makes it much easier to understand the Sci-survivors, and makes me want to honor them for their courage. It’s not easy to drop a long-held world view, no matter how kooky it seems to other people. Thanks!

            • SopranoAscends

              Here is one of my fav (and 7+ million viewers)Tate sketches referencing Doctor Who, with David Tennant. Enjoy! http://tinyurl.com/28pzee

            • Betsy

              SKREEM! Thanks for making SURE I don’t get any housecleaning done this weekend….

            • SopranoAscends

              My pleasure. How silly that this O/T vid would garner a down vote. Each one is a badge on the old Girl Sprout sash.

            • SopranoAscends

              Why would anyone down vote the Doctor? You guys are so, so funny. Too bad you’ve no sense of humor.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, lucky save there. Apparently the Nigerian scammers are doing the same to women. They snaffle a picture of a nice looking man from the internet, quickly profess Intense Love for the victim and then start hitting her up for big $$$$$$ Many have been scammed this way and lost a lot of money not to mention ending up heart broken.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          That’s a good point. I’m sorry I did not consider it yesterday.

      • Seannie5

        is that the Karic from facebook?

        • InterestedinCrazy

          Yes public Facebook…this is linked to youtube video. Both links above in my first post.

          • Seannie5

            Oh I missed the facebook link! Sad to see young people buying into it.

    • DamOTclese2

      Upworthy’s CEOs are going through the data right this minute trying to find out what the bloody fuck went wrong, I’m certain. 🙂

  • Flynnie

    I’ve been at this a while. A few things I look at over and over again. Arnie Lerma’s site, Dave Touretzky’s stuff, the Jason Behge video. And Jamie DeWolf’s slam poetry on Laffy is actually at the top of the list of things I never get tired of seeing. It is artistry in its simplicity and truth. Jamie’s honesty shines through with evey viewing. Thanks for pointing us to it again, and allowing me to have that to welcome in this fine Saturday morning.

    • Anonymous

      Jamie really does do a great job, his words are touching, personal, and profound. He’s as articulate an SP as we could ask for.

    • DamOTclese2

      Jamie did it so well, yeah, never had to pause and never stumbled, he got the performance down perfectly, yeah.

  • Great White Clam

    “The Chambre de Conseil in Brussels is looking at two cases in
    which federal investigators laid charges not just against individual
    Scientologists, but the movement itself. Its hearings are expected to
    last four weeks.”

    I hope it doesn’t turn out to be another circus, though those in Brussels might not put up with the legal hocus-pocus and general buffoonery of the upside down world the $cilons wish to impose;

  • mook

    CoS in the UK still extolling the face that William S. Burroughs was a member, even though he publicly disavowed the cult when he left and gave LRH a severe tongue lashing
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/scientology-promoting-william-burroughs-wtf.116273/

    • Great White Clam

      “If there are signs that the cult is now promoting [William S. Burroughs] as a scientologist,
      it’s just another index of how desperate the cult has become.”

      Another interesting thing is how did the clams avoid issuing an SP Declare on him? Or did they actually declare him and just conveniently ‘forget’ that fact in typical clam fashion to attempt to turn the truth upside-down?

      • AlphaRomeo

        Can anyone please update me regarding the day two of Monique’s case in Texas.

        • Missionary Kid

          Everything is submitted documents. There was no open court.

          • AlphaRomeo

            Thanks a million – any idea when is the next court date pls

            • Missionary Kid

              Someone over at ESMB is keeping track. I believe the next court date is the 24th, but that’s all that my short term memory has. Tony is sneaky (not really) because he knows how to drop more tidbits on us on different days to keep us stirred up. A Co$ footbullet a day keeps us interested.

            • Robert Eckert

              22nd there is a hearing scheduled for the Motion for Sanctions which should be a barn-burner. Lamont filed a Motion to Quash yesterday, though, on Ray Jeffrey’s Notice of Deposition scheduling David Miscavige for the 29th. Ray is certain to demand a prompt hearing on that, so the schedule is likely to be uncertain for a few days.

      • RMycroft

        Back then Hubbard was in charge, and possibly realized that an official SP Declare would be adding gasoline to the fire. Strange for him to use kid gloves though, considering the vindictiveness of his campaigns against politicians, journalists and even a cartoonist, who dared say the slightest critical thing.

        • Observer

          Hubbard was a whore for celebrity artists, and Burroughs was one of them.

          • Missionary Kid

            I would shorten that to: Hubbard was a whore.

    • Jon Hendry

      Burroughs was a notorious junkie who shot his own wife.

      His involvement isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement from someone with good judgement.

  • Espiando

    Fourteen years for a court case in Belgium isn’t surprising. This is a country that ran perfectly well without a government for a year and a half recently. However, it’s go time there now. They’ll do the right thing and join France in showing the world that this is a criminal cult.

    Memo to Mimi Pollack: get a new av photo. You look like a potato.

    • Modesto

      I’m a bit disturbed by Mimi’s ‘turd on the bed’ photo (fb, scroll down a bit) – is this a new meme that I’ve missed?

    • Zana

      I’m still laughing: “you look like a potato.” :-)))

  • Edward Whalley

    I sent her a message “I’m so sorry for you. Remember Squirrels are Beautiful.”

  • Sunny Sands

    Frequently scilons use “They are attacking our religion” as a rebuttal. They are even using that justification in court now as their reason for spying on the Rathbuns. Every religion on earth is disputed by someone. They always sound foolish saying this, because they can’t think of anything else to say.

  • Observer

    Am I the only one who thinks Karric’s last name indicates a day full of clay demoing?

    • Deimos

      Or the dish of the day in the Seaborg dining hall.

  • Dorothy Gale

    “News is what somebody does not want you to print.” That’s funny- the “journalists” who are bawing over viral content need only look in the mirror. News became entertainment LONG before internet news became popular. Indy News outlets grew out of a culture where mainstream news no longer served the people, only their corporate interests. News became (decades ago) what corporate bosses want printed and imo caring less about what somebody does. No news outlet is perfect. I’ve been subscribed to Upworthy since the beginning and I have observed what they do, and they do a pretty good job getting the word out about what unique individuals are doing. Yeah there is some really awful viral content out there. Upworthy is not in that class imo. I guess I could ask- do these journalists want a “free market of ideas” or don’t they? Upworthy has done a great service to mankind. There will be a few Sci’s who really like Upworthy (who don’t pay attention to mainstream news) and the Jamie DeWolf piece might have an effect on a few of them.

  • Anonymous3000

    OMG, 16 years ago… Should Rinder and Rathburn be worried?

    • Robert Eckert

      The Characteristic mis-spelling of an OSA agent.

      • Anonymous3000

        I don’t understand the remarks of SHE and Eckert. Hail Xenu.

        • scottishinlondon

          I feel you Anonymous3000

        • Robert Eckert

          You came here to dead-agent Mosey (and I screen-capped that in case you retro-edit). You use the “Rathburn” mis-spelling from Freedumb Mag etc. You have been called out before so your pretense not to understand it disingenuous.

    • WhereIsSHE

      Time for you to hit the clay table.
      Your assignment is “BELGIUM”.

    • DamOTclese2

      Bet you $1 it has the violently insane sociopath shitting his underroos again.

  • PickAnotherID

    Just proves what my protest sign from 20 years ago said is still true today, “SCIENTOLOGY HATES FREE SPEECH!”

    • 0tessa

      Scientology’s Free Speech means you cannot talk about anything you like, but not about US!

      • RMycroft

        If you say something that they hate, then it’s hate speech.

        • joan nieman

          Lol!

        • 0tessa

          But only when it is about THEM.

  • Drat

    Scientology’s 500 FB members unfriend Upworthy, dealing an effective blow to the Internet community.

    • Missionary Kid

      Great sarcasm!

      • Drat

        Ms Pollack must be a secret member of the FB Police.

        Delicious irony if Scientology’s EU “Office for Human Rights” gets done for fraud and not paying staff.

        • Missionary Kid

          AMEN!

        • DamOTclese2

          She’s keeping the world safe from Scientology customers having to think for themselves, all 12,000 of them.

    • RMycroft

      I wonder if there’s any way to spread a conspiracy panic among Scientologists that the government (and the psychs and SMERSH) are tracking them through sites like Facebook and they should avoid those sites.

      I know, it’s a crazy conspiracy theory, but they just might buy it.

      • Drat

        Isn’t the government doing that already? 😉

        Nah, it would be a shame if they left. That would leave them stranded with no connection to reality any more.

      • Peter

        You mean that after the recent NSA exposures, you believe that the government *isn’t* tracking everyone…including the scios???

    • DamOTclese2

      That’ll certainly teach Upworthy a lesson, by Xenu! Upworthy won’t do that again, I’m sure.

      • Drat

        Upworthy will implode.

  • mrsGambit

    I’m proud of my neighbours in Belgium and France, they have the right idea.
    Here, however, Scn regained their tax exempt status recently. I hope the tax bureau is paying attention and will come to their senses soon, it’s embarassing.

    • Robert Eckert

      You’re in the Netherlands?

      • mrsGambit

        yes, I am.

        • Robert Eckert

          Welcome to the Bunker!

          • mrsGambit

            Thank you.
            I’ve been here for a long time, but I don’t really comment that often 🙂

          • mrsGambit

            Thank you! 🙂
            I’ve been here for a while, but I don’t comment that much.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Jan. 10: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #15,557 – down 261 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #36,653 – up 768 from yesterday.

    Difference: 21,096 – 1,029 less than yesterday.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I write this not to be overly patriotic but to point out on this influential website that France is not unique in successfully prosecuting the Church of Scientology, in addition to its members. Scientology was found guilty in Canada of being, “in breach of public trust” in 1992. Details can easily be found on the internet. You can start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Church_of_Scientology_of_Toronto

    • RMycroft

      Miscavige himself took the stand in that case. Unfortunately, no one has ever dug out the transcripts and put his bit online. The last time someone looked into getting those, it would be expensive except for lawyers or law students. Part of that cost might be for certifying that each page is a true copy or something, which seems overkill for sticking it up on the net.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks, RM. I didn’t know Miscavige came to town. I have a friend who went down regularly to see the prosecution, like a fan going to a Leaf game. He told me that the former Toronto Cult leader, Bryan Levman, whom I also believe was the local founder and head of the local Guardian’s Office, was there with his wife, Rosie. He had been declared suppressive. The lawyer for Scientology was one of the best in the country. I am sure that helped but (as I am sure you know) they remain the only criminally convicted religious organization in the history of Canada.

  • vistaril_LOL

    so much “for seekers after the truth” That vid is being retweeted like crazy.If the clams wanna stop it they should ALL come on line.Come at the internet bro!

    • BosonStark

      That’s the Catch-22 — Davie would love to unleash every thetan onto critical sites on the Web, but no can do, because what they would see might give them pneumonia or make them DOUBT. Doubt would ruin their certainty, and without certainty, what would clams do with their 10-pack Friends ‘n’ Family leather-bound packaged edition of Hubbard’s crapsterpiece, Dianutty? It wouldn’t be worth the forest it’s printed on.

  • vistaril_LOL

    Anyone do a belgium/dr evil shop??????

  • kemist

    Re.: the false job ad for cult recruitment purpose :

    I wish doing this was illegal for MLMs too.

    I’ve been seeing this crap on job boards for years, and it’s a fucking pain in the ass to prepare yourself for a real interview and finding yourself wasting hours in the company of people who are looking for everything from a programming job to office work in a goddamn MLM pep talk.

    • OT8squared

      It happened to me once. I took a job with the Missing Children Help Center and quit after 1 day. It was clearly a fraud. I didn’t think much about it after that until a year later when I saw an investigation on Dateline.

  • Anonymous

    This may be seen as a controversial idea, but please read and consider the below.

    There has been much fun poked at the “slip” of the Scientology attorney indicating that his client David Miscavige may have a “black heart.” All sorts of humorous shoops and text have been generated off that meme and is has been great fun.

    However, it probable that David Miscavige is laughing at us right now, as he is in fact the one that started the “black heart” meme, which is much less offensive than a description of his actual character.

    It is my opinion that the black heart meme was deliberately planted in the courtroom by the attorney on Miscavige’s order. Within an hour or two of it being noted on Tony’s blog a troll arrived and began reinforcing the meme with his obviously scripted comments. The black heart meme is a Miscavige directed OSA op.

    By planting the meme, Miscavige accomplishes these things:

    1) The black heart meme distracts everyone from the very serious issues in contest in this case.

    Scientology is attempting to get legal cover for their coordinated, well-financed, years-long campaign of harassment, intimidation and surveillance of Monique Rathbun . Scientology has been running these campaigns for decades against critics. If Monique loses this case, especially on an anti-SLAPP motion, it will embolden the church. That is not a Black heart “tee hee hee” issue. It is a central tenant in a civil society that large organizations cannot willfully finance and orchestrate the actions of dozens of minions in coordinated campaigns of harassment, surveillance and intimidation against law abiding private citizens. That is what Scientology does and that practice needs to be outlawed and prohibited. The Monique Rathbun case is an important front in accomplishing the long run goal of outlawing the practice of Fair Game.

    2) Miscavige has now “shown” his OSA trolls how to run an Op. He’s the hero.

    He’s got everyone here talking about the “slip” made by the attorney and now Miscavige is portrayed as the “funny pirate” not the dishonest, lying, treacherous bully and fraud artist that he actually is. The best Op’s in any intelligence organization (and OSA is an intelligence organization) ) are forwarded by people who have no idea they are being trolled. The “Miscavige has a black heart” campaign is an OSA troll op. We have been trolled.

    3) Miscavige gains (he does not lose) credibility in the Sea Org by being portrayed as a black heart.

    The filthy, depraved culture of Scientology within its Sea Org management ranks is hard to fathom for folks
    that have not experienced it. Inside that culture profanity, vulgarity, homophobia, racism, snitching, stat pushing and money grubbing are seen as laudable traits, they are NOT dishonorable. Folks that found those things dishonorable left a long time ago. What stayed behind are those folks who have adopted these
    characteristics and look on them with pride.

    4) Miscavige will be portrayed to the Scientology public as a “Pirate and Bum.”

    It’s been clear for some time that Scientology leadership has lost touch with simple humanity and cannot communicate in a positive fashion with the broad public. The black heart meme plays to Scientology
    Miscavige sycophant public. They will see the black heart meme as Miscavige being a “Pirate and Bum” based on a reference from L. Ron Hubbard where he claims that every successful person is really a pirate at heart and does dishonest things to get ahead. Here’s the reference:

    “This is the old formula and yet it’s dismaying to go around and find the (quote) ‘captains of industry’ and find out that they’re a whole bunch of pirates and bums. They were never respectful to anybody. It’s just incredible, yet there they sit in command of large works and industries. They didn’t save their money. They don’t save their money. They are not cautious with their investments. They buy the doggonedest things. They get into the worst possible scrapes and trouble and seem to keep right on going and getting right out of them again.” Philadelphia Doctorate Course, “WHAT IS TO BE DONE IN COURSE” lecture by L. Ron
    Hubbard.

    Inside Scientology this “Pirates and Bums” reference is a meme of its own and is used heavily by registrars to
    convince people to do extraordinarily foolish things with their money, credit cards etc. to pay for Scientology services instead of financing ordinary life matters. It is well established.

    5) Miscavige wins if the black heart meme becomes controversial on Tony’s blog (and elsewhere.)

    Pitting otherwise cooperative folks against each other is a central core of L. Ron Hubbard’s “tech” for expanding Scientology. Jefferson Hawkins noted the “Third Party Law” as being part of the so-called “ethics” tech of Scientology. Well…like almost everything else that Hubbard “warned” against, he in fact was a master of employing the Third Party Law against his own supporters. Third Party tech is used constantly (in reverse) by Scientology to create antagonisms between folks that otherwise would be unified in opposition to the dishonest and frequently illegal actions of the church.

    The above is my considered opinion. Think about two for a moment or two before launching into a tirade
    about how much fun the meme has been. Look again especially at item number 1 above before lighting up your flame-thrower.

    Is the “Miscavige has a black heart” meme a deliberate OSA Op? I believe it is.

    • Tony Ortega

      Oh come on. Knowing Cedillo, it’s just his own way of speaking. It should be pretty clear that he was just making a point, and as Ray said, it came across a little funny. So we had some fun with it. That’s all.

      Try not to panic that every little thing is OSA.

      • Anonymous

        Tony…you are a great reporter and I love your writing.

        I recommend you not underestimate your opponent. Their treachery plays out on many levels.

        • Espiando

          Nony, there’s one factor you didn’t take into account: this is OSA you’re talking about. They aren’t smart enough to change a lightbulb if they don’t have an HCOPL relating how to do it. As you can see from their efforts here, the Clown is very strong within them.

          • Anonymous

            Again, do not underestimate the opponent.

            • Espiando

              OSA is vicious and will stop at nothing. However, they have exhibited no signs of actual intelligence or anything that can be mistaken for intelligence such as cunning. Even in the GO days, they never showed any signs of planning ahead. It was intelligence operations as immediate gratification.

              Plus, remember that Hubtard told them to be noisy. They judge their operations solely on the immediate impact they’ll make (intelligence as statpushing).

              They are clowns masquerading as an intelligence operation. And now that they’ve been exposed as toothless tigers, they’re easily thwarted. If anything, they’ve been overestimated because of their effect when going after single targets like their Dead Agenting. When faced with more than one target, or a target that will fight back, they fall apart.

              And how can you “underestimate” someone who’d send John Allender to do a job?

            • Anonymous

              With respect, this is a factually inaccurate assessment of both the Guardian’s office and it’s successor OSA, the Office of Special Affairs.

              Many of the folks that were in the Guardian’s Office when it committed the largest infiltration of the U.S. government in history, are still in positions of authority in Scientology management.

              Some of what you see that is silly (and it is silly) are deliberate red herring ops and some of it is just the result of incompetence by useful idiot volunteers that are thrown under the bus as soon as expediency warrants.

              OSA is not as powerful as it once was, but it is a mistake to discount it as harmless.

              There are fanatics involved and they do fanatical, well-planned actions.

            • Espiando

              Their ability to accomplish Snow White may have had more to do with blind spots in the US Government than with their abilities. Back then, the gummit was fixated on keeping out the commies and queers, not red-blooded heterosexual all-American males like Michael Meisner. They also took advantage of the fact that American intelligence and counter-intelligence was in complete disarray during the post-Watergate era, and it was easy to take advantage of that situation as well. The GO was opportunistic, which does not necessarily extend to ability.

              OSA is a clown show, pure and simple. They need to be treated like clowns.

            • Anonymous

              You mean, like this?

            • Espiando

              With less “British” dental work, though.

            • Observer

              Well, scrolling down and having that pop up took years off my life.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Jesus………..!!!
              Here come the nightmares again.

            • DeElizabethan

              Dangerous clowns, not to be trusted for a nano second.

            • BosonStark

              Now they can’t even erect a cam or mail out a dildo without getting caught and hauled into court. I understand though, it is the things that we don’t know about that could be more dangerous.

              I don’t think Tony underestimates them at all. Few people are more on top of the variety of things they do and have done.

            • DeElizabethan

              Well stated Anon and true IMNHO.

            • OrangySky

              But Espi, I look at their op to mind-fuck Paulette Cooper, and I see a lot of cunning there. Setting up her best friend and roommate as an undercover Scientologist was as evil counter-intelligence as it gets.

              Perhaps others here who’ve been fair-gamed will have stories on how cunning or not cunning OSA is?

              Since then, however – since Mary Sue was derailed (some say she really was quite the ‘brains’ behind a lot of LRH’s most workable corporate ideas back in the day) and OSA fell under Miscavige’s purview ( yeah, we all know who calls the shots, ultimately) – the ops seem to be more and more ham-handed, even if more brazen. Case in point, “Miss Bloody Butt.”

            • Espiando

              As I said, when they go after single targets through Fair Game, they can be effective. But these days, they’re not facing single, easily-isolated targets. Thanks to their behavior, they built an Anti community who, despite differences in beliefs and ideology, will come to each others’ support and bring assets that OSA simply can’t match. Hence, they flounder.

            • Artoo45

              Fair game doesn’t always come from OSA. When I was 18, I was fair gamed by, let’s call him “Mr. Smith,” a small mission holder. This was in the late 70’s and I was dating one of Smith’s parishoner’s sons. My boyfriend’s father didn’t know his son was Teh Ebilz 1.1. When dad found out he wrote a KR to the mission holder about it. He was told to handle it by making his son call my parents (who knew him as my boyfriend and liked him) with a story about how I was sick and my family was sick, etc., etc. The call was tragicomically inept. The guy had never told me about being a Scientologist, and I was furious/hurt and freaked out and I didn’t understand what was going on and why he was recommending that “only Scientology could help our family and it would be a shame if this got into the media.” Seriously stupid. This was in small-town San Diego county. The ex boyfriend and I spoke again some ten years later and the whole story came out about his dad (who I found on completion lists during my ARS years: Clear, L10, Clear OT), and the whole mess that ensued. I recently found out that his late father eventually gave up on the cult and was able to accept his son and his partner as family.

            • Couch_Incident

              One of the most encouraging things about how the Rathbun suit is playing out is that, although Scn can hire some of the best lawyers out there, Davey doesn’t take their advice and calls his own shots. To the casual observer, it looks like the lawyers are idiots, but really, it’s their puppet master who’s a supremely overconfident brazen idiot.

            • DeElizabethan

              “Even in the GO days, they never showed any signs of planning ahead. It was intelligence operations as immediate gratification.” Not true! They had plenty I’m sure beside the one I was on for 4 years and never discovered. Now they have members openly joining civic groups to influence all areas of government and businesses in pertinent areas. I’m sure they are still doing the same planned covert operations, but we don’t find out about it nor can prove it because they commit no actual crimes, just underhanded slime.

            • Zana

              I think your comments are very revealing and totally worth having on the table here. Just to keep us alert. They set traps. The fact that his own lawyer likened him to the KKK and Hitler in the court records may have been a slip though.

              As a creative person trying to solve a mystery to take down an opponent, your comments are well thought out and worthy of holding here in the thought process so as not to overlook a small detail that could save the day.

              And, yes, the shoops were fun and I was laughing at the whole situation with a friend of mine who had been “in” longer than I had. Yet underlying all of it is the terrible truth that this multi headed hydra must be taken down. The laughter is a good release. A little relaxation… Now back to the fight in front of us.

              Thank you for your contribution.

            • Anonymous

              Agreed.

              I love the shoops and they are hilarious.

              But it is important to not be distraced from the more important issues.

            • MaxSpaceman

              >>>>underlying all of it is the terrible truth that this multi headed hydra must be taken down.

              Tru dat Z.

            • kemist

              There’s also that old saying about how easy it is to mistake incompetence for malice.

              Miscavige isn’t subtle, and has declared the people who could be subtle long ago because he was scared of their capacity to topple him. He’s now surrounded by a bunch of idiots and people afraid criticize him. Thinking he puts that much effort into manipulating memes about him on the fringe of the internet is a bit farfetched. He’s too busy right now keeping his ass away from a certain court.

              Besides, I fail to understand what he’d hope to accomplish this way. Memes are fickle things that frequently disappear from circulation after a few weeks when they stop generating the all powerful lulz. It’s almost impossible to predict which memes will stick.

              And what would it do for him if it did ? Proving that people have a bad opinion of him ? There’s plenty of proof of that already. PR for the benefit of clams ? How is the average clam supposed to see this ? They’re not supposed to read entheta. Turning the church into ridicule for camouflage ? Most people already think it is both ridiculous as well as creepy.

              That leaves controversy. Well, as a pastafarian I’m offended by the meme as it is an insult to the good name of pirates.

            • Observer

              And the last thing we need is more paranoia here.

            • Anonymous

              “He’s now surrounded by a bunch of idiots and people afraid criticize him.”

              Not everyone around him is an idiot. But they are definitely afraid of him.

              “Thinking he puts that much effort into manipulating memes about him on the fringe of the internet is a bit farfetched.”

              My estimation is that manipulating his image among the specific audiences I noted above is probably among the most important projects that occupy Sea Org Captain David Miscavige. It is not immaterial but in fact is of utmost importance.

              His image is central to maintaining his position. Everything hinges on it. As it did with LRH.

              That is why OSA and the Scientology PR machine are central to the survival of Scientology leadership…the MUST silence people who know the truth.

              Silencing people who know the truth plays out on many, many levels.

            • Robert Eckert

              Are you accusing Tony, Observer, and every other person on the Bunker who thought the “black heart” line was funny of being an OSA agent? You are not giving any kind of coherent account of how you think this “plot” was executed or what it is possibly intended to accomplish.

            • DeElizabethan

              Robert i personally think he is looking at all possibilities only, like with an open mind.

            • Anonymous

              I didn’t accuse anyone of anything. Read the original post again.

              I did not and have not called anyone an OSA agent, nor did I ad hom anyone in my post.

              Your strawman comments are boring, repetitive and absurd.

              Please keep your silly nonsense to yourself, at least as it relates to me.

              I don’t owe you Robert Eckert a lesson on anything and it is clear you already believe there is nothing to learn.

              So be it.

            • Robert Eckert

              “I did not and have not called anyone an OSA agent” Then I guess I did not understand what you were saying. I thought you were saying the creation of the piratical character was the work of OSA agents: that was created here, not by the hapless lawyer.

            • Captain Howdy

              I know the opponent, she’s my sister (DSA OSA NYC) and she’s dumber than dirt.

            • Anonymous

              😉

        • Silence of the Clams

          Ok, so he’s impressing the scilons with his black heart genius. Even if I believed your premise – which I don’t – the scilons are not ruling on the case, a judge (and maybe jury) will be the decision makers.

          Scientology is about being a bully. I don’t see much from them that impresses me on any level. They are not particularly smart and they typically win in court merely out of attrition, not because of their OT skills.

          • Anonymous

            I understand your point.

            However, this is the same organization that cowed the IRS into a blanket tax exemption for Scientology.

            The same organization that infiltrated the Justice Department, wiretapped and burglarized the IRS, and ran dozens and dozens of similar operations against other U.S. and foreign governments.

            The same organization that got Joan Wood to change her initial ruling on the cause of death in the Lissa McPherson case.

            The same organization that somehow escaped consequences from the latest FBI investigation into human trafficking.

            It is silly (and useful for their purpose) to underestimate the will and cunning of OSA. This stuff has been going on for more than 60 years in the various incarnations of Scientology and it is still going on today.

            It works on many, many, levels some of which are incredible and thus, invisible.

        • ze moo

          The ‘they’re despicable, but have rights too’ argument has been used successfully to allow Nazi and Klu Klux Klan rallies and protests in many places. I can see MIscavige adopting the ‘blackheart’ as an internal public relations move. As he has no real leadership skills, he relies on the elleraich approved methods that the clammaster learned from Stalin and Hitler and every TV and radio evangelist and snake oil salesman from the 20’s to the 70’s. The blackheart meme fits the management style of CO$.

          Cedillo will get a bonus for his ‘tribute’ to the dwarfenführer, but Cedillo probably came up with that during pre-trial meetings with the ‘brain trust’. All those lawyers have to come up with some lutz to get that big paycheck. American lawyers really do study theater and dramatics, only the best actors get the big bucks. I look forward to seeing this meme used to claim that the constitutional rights of CO$ are being violated and I suspect endless appeals to higher courts will be made.

          I cannot credit the littlest führer or any of his minions with this meme. An experienced legal mind is behind this one.

        • Observer

          Tony has had first-hand experience with Scientology’s treachery for, I believe, nearly two decades.

          • Anonymous

            As do many, many others. And for much, much longer.

            • Observer

              My point is that he is well aware of their tactics.

              EDIT: And the down arrow is not from me.

    • 0tessa

      I appreciate your efforts, but I don’t think you are right.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I don’t give DM the credit for being that thoughtful.

    • chukicita

      What you relate might be the way Scn, Inc. tries to run with a ball that was already thrown. But their skills at framing an argument are seriously restricted by their culture of redefining words.

      “A walk down the path of history is crunchy with the crispy corpses of
      those who pooh-poohed or ignored the clown car of ridicule when it
      pulled-up to the curb.” -Stephen Jones

    • StatusLevelUp

      Interesting analysis, with a nice perspective on how crass the culture is in the Sea Org.

      • StatusLevelUp

        2 downvotes for that?

    • OrangySky

      It’s possible. You make a very convincing argument. If true or not, I still encourage all TRUE Bunkerites (NOT trolls!) to go back to using MK’s list of more creative and crime-specific nicknames for His Oiliness McSlappy.

      To play Devil’s Advocate here, I wonder if an attorney with a reputation such as Cedillo’s would allow himself to be so tightly scripted, even by his Evil Overlord, the Asthmatic Dwarf. My experience with “Celebrity Ligitators” such as Cedillo is, they have enormous egos. Cedillo may have taken on Scientology as a client, but he’s had other big paying clients. $1000/hr aside, I cannot see him accepting a word-for-word script for his argument. Of course, he DID agree to show those ill-advised videos to the court. So I may be wrong.

      At any rate, Captain Blackheart may be a “term of endearment” within the culture of the Sea Org. But to the rest of humanity – to anyone but the ten thousand or so die hard Sea Org followers in the world – openly comparing your client to the KKK and to Nazi’s is NOT a smart longterm PR move. IMHO.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks.

        Remember the audience being played:

        Internal Sea Org types

        Critical ex’s and their supporters

        Sycophant Scientology public

        The “throwaway” comment by Cedillio had no intentional role whatsoever in affecting the judge in the Monque Rathbun case and only a tiny role in affecting the non-Scientology public.

        This kind of stuff is frequently planned for weeks and weeks by OSA.

        It is not credible to dismiss it because one thinks David Miscavige is a nut. IMHO.

        • I think he’s a nut in the sense that someone who is poor and exhibited the same behavior patterns would end up in a psychiatric hospital or prison very quickly. His money along with the willing dupes and acolytes who surround him, give him a very wide range to operate out of compared to the average religious leader. I agree, the organization he wields is not to be underestimated.

          As Churchill said about WWII, this may not be the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.

        • Robert Eckert

          “Internal Sea Org types” and “Sycophant Scientology public” are the audiences that will never ever see the Intenet memes.

          “The “throwaway” comment by Cedillio had no intentional role whatsoever in affecting the judge” You are entirely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the story. It was not a “throwaway” comment but an argument repeated multiple times for a specific legal purpose. Cedillo was arguing to the judge that all evidence presented by the Rathbun side about the malicious intent displayed by the Squirrel Busters (or dildo-mailers etc.) was irrelevant to the terms of the SLAPP statute.

          • Anonymous

            Not interested is debating this with you (specifically you.)

      • InterestedinCrazy

        Was it Cedillo or Jefferson who disputed the text message on the Blackberry exchange as being done in ‘London, England’ despite clear and very definite facts to the contrary if the legal team had read the texts carefully. Does make you wonder if Dipshit Moron is calling the shots and summarising the text chat convo between ‘Lou/DM’, Tommy Davis and Mike Rinder?

        Very silly error to make, no?

        ETA: It was Jefferson and this was the quote:
        The Rathbuns now rely upon a declaration from Mike Rinder and a series of purported text messages regarding activities in London England that date between March 19, 2007 and March 24, 2007. Even assuming the authenticity of the purported text messages (a dubious assumption), the subject matter has nothing to do with the State of Texas.

        In reference to the fact that this case had nothing to do with DM. Jurisdiction.

        • Espiando

          That was Jefferson.

          • InterestedinCrazy

            Thanks, I got them mixed up in my head. I corrected in an edit.

    • media_lush

      Big deal if some of the insiders might think it looks like their leader looks cool, the point being is that the rest of the world sees that the lawyers representing him are on record saying that their client has a black heart. His case isn’t against himself.

      • Anonymous

        Understood.

        The deception plays out on multiple levels.

        • ze moo

          Davey will see that this blackheart meme is adopted for internal use. He likes the fear and ‘respect’ it generates in the minions.

          One should not overestimate an opponent either. You waste resources preparing for master tactician while you are really facing someone who can’t play checkers.

          Your comment about the blackheart meme being a respected one in $camatology does hit the nail on the head.

          • Anonymous

            Sea Org Captain David Miscavige is at the top of a global organization that still generates hundreds of millions of dollars a year in revenue from various sources (even if by fraudulent means.)

            Estimates of the cash reserves vary from $500 million to over $1 billion.

            The real estate alone is probably worth $500 million or more.

            Miscavige has decimated those who opposed him internally and has managed to fend off external opponents for close to 30 years.

            Most of the above has happened on the watch of Miscavige, post Hubbard.

            Those are not the “stats” of someone to be underestimated as an opponent.

            The end of his reign is definitely closer than the beginning.

            However he is a cunning opponent, has many minions and useful idiots left to throw under the bus to protect himself and has proven resilient.

            He is wounded…and therefore even more dangerous.

            • Gerard Plourde

              “However he is a cunning opponent, has many minions and useful idiots left to throw under the bus to protect himself and has proven resilient.”

              Granting all of that, he is not omnipotent.

              As regards his resources – His income has to have taken a hit over the last few years. Narconon is probably a major source but with investigations into insurance fraud in several jurisdictions and its virtual shutdown in Canada the pipeline’s flow is diminished.

              Real estate holdings are notoriously non-liquid (as can be seen in the Catholic Church, which is selling property in many dioceses throughout the US to cover deficits).

            • Anonymous

              He is wounded…no question.

            • ze moo

              While it appears that huge percentages of formerly faithful clams have escaped, the ones left are the ones who accept DM as the current maximum leader. Anyone else has left, or been declared or is very carefully hiding their true feelings. The numbers of clams who embrace GAT2 will be proof of DM’s ‘leadership’. I just don’t think we will see the real numbers on that for quite a while.

            • OrangySky

              Anonymous – I do like your argument, even if I have my doubts. I think it’s a smart one.

              I see Davey’s behavior of late in two lights. 1) He’s a wounded animal, furious, desperate and intent on wreaking revenge on all who oppose him. He’s quite dangerous.
              2) He’s really losing his mind. He was mentally ill – well, at the very least, had a serious personality disorder – to begin with, but I believe he is definitely going mad now. If he is indeed also abusing alcohol (as well as warping his brain on a daily basis in trying to fit the world into the pretzel logic of Scientology), he’s going to become more and more reactive every day.
              Even the greatest tactician in the world begins to fail when s/he becomes reactive. The most carefully thought-out strategies can be toppled in an instant when someone snaps and deviates from the game plan. Davey is snapping and reacting on a daily basis.

              As tactical he (and OSA) may be, Dave himself is reactive, wounded, defensive, and not mentally all there (paranoid, fearful, rageful, etc.)

              Whatever brilliant three-dimensional chess game OSA has set up, Davey will knock all the pieces over in a fit at any moment. Like Mike Rinder says, these people could screw up a 2-car funeral.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Agreed, Captain David Miscavige is his name. He is a criminal. He was responsible for the death of Lisa McPherson – he supervised her case and attested her Clear shortly before she went psychotic and died after 17 days locked in a room at the Fort Harrison. He has harassed Mosey, never a church member, and drove her to file a lawsuit to stop the harassment.

      OSA is threatened by Tony’s reporting and has sent lots of trolls and sock puppets to distract and derail That is what OSA does. There are more trolls and socks in the past few weeks/months, since the legal cases and media coverage have become so much more damaging to the Scilons.

    • pronoia

      We’ll if it is, it is both lame and ineffective and just goes to show how out of touch with wog culture and it’s justice system captain blackheart is!

      The main problem I have with the meme is that it leaves the impression that Miscavige even has a heart, black thought may be!

      • DeElizabethan

        Yes, someone on FB said, how can his heart be black since he doesn’t even have one, eh?

    • hansje brinker

      Okay:”The Lord of the Squirrels”
      Better? (refresh)

    • Drat

      Anonymous, I missed the introduction of the Blackheart meme. You say it was a troll. Do you know which one(s)?

      Also, are you able to share some of your background in OSA/GO? You seem to know a lot about their operations. I agree that the bungling cronies we see are just veneer and a distraction too stupid to be believed. Perhaps you could write up aspects of how the deception is played at different levels?

      • Anonymous

        I offered the idea that the black heart meme is a Op by OSA as it parallels the written Hubbard polices on how to distract people off important issues and get them talking about less threatening subjects.

        The (publicly published) Hubbard policies that drive these kinds of operations are contained in the OEC volumes and can be found all over the net.

        There are thousands and thousand of confidential “advices” that also drive these kinds of operations that are not publicly available but are contained in the internal SIR database (and sometimes elsewhere) accessible on a need-to-know basis by authorized individuals in Scientology management.

        As to offering biographical information…heh. Note avatar.

        • Mooser

          “There are thousands and thousand of confidential “advices” that also
          drive these kinds of operations that are not publicly available but are
          contained in the internal SIR database (and sometimes elsewhere)
          accessible on a need-to-know basis by authorized individuals in
          Scientology management.”

          Oh yes, the discipline and secrecy of Scientology has proven impregnable! There’s always ten times more stuff you don’t know about than the little we do, which is probably fake and fools us!

          How much credit do you plan to give them?

          • Anonymous

            I give them credit for operating a patently fraudulent organization taking in billions of dollars over the course of more than 60 years while successfully avoiding meaningful criminal prosecution in the U.S. of both L. Ron Hubbard, and at least so far, Sea Org Captain David Miscavige.

            I don’t want that to be true. But it is.

            That is why I offered the idea.

        • Drat

          Yet here we are, not discussing the issue.

    • Gerard Plourde

      If that is DM’s strategy, it’s fatally flawed. A church or an organization can believe anything it wants and proclaim whatever it wants. It cannot harass, intimidate or otherwise engage in illegal behavior as part of its belief system. The First Amendment is not an unlimited license for expression. It is subject to, at minimum, time place an manner restrictions.

      Additionally, if DM is trying to use the public figure defense against Mosey, he again doesn’t understand the law. That defense is limited to libel actions. It won’t excuse the intrusion into seclusion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and trespass that the cult has engaged in.

      • Anonymous

        I mentioned the black heart meme not as a “strategy” but as one tactic in a multidimensional campaign of PR, covert and overt Op’s, legal maneuvering, financial engineering, etc. by Sea Org Captain David Miscavige (and his minions) to maintain his position as the number one person in Scientology and to stave of all threats that might inhibit that goal.

        • Mooser

          Multi-dimensional? From a theology which hasn’t even mastered the ‘passage of time’ concept? They’ve go more than enough trouble with one dimension.

        • Gerard Plourde

          “to maintain his position as the number one person in Scientology and to stave of all threats that might inhibit that goal.”

          Ok. But how far does that get him in the long run? It may hold some cult members in the fold because they’re “circling the wagons”.

          In terms of PR, let’s look at how it might play out with the general public.
          “DM, head of Scientology, is called a pirate and a bum.”
          “How did this come about?”
          “He’s been sued by a woman claiming he orchestrated a campaign to harass her by setting up cameras that were pointed at her house and sending sex toys to her workplace.”
          “Boy he is a jerk.”

          Financial engineering –

          1. How many lawyers is he employing right now? What kind of drain is that?
          2. He just added the “Flag” building as a property that has to be staffed and kept fully operational (light, HVAC, maintenance (supplies,staff costs are minimal). He can offset some of this by running the “Freewinds” less often and cutting hours at orgs around the country, but the cost of running “Flag” is a new drain.

          I agree that he’s still a force not to be discounted, but the wounds are real and do have an effect.

          • Anonymous

            I did not say it would be successful tactic in the long run, or even that it was a good idea.

            I offered it as a probable explanation that has striking parallels with similar operations from the past.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I agree that it’s quite consistent with past behavior. Should we file it under “Potential Footbullet”?

            • Anonymous

              I would. That’s why I suggested it was an Op.

            • Gerard Plourde

              Since we agree that it’s a “potential footbullet” all we can do is sit back and see how it develops. Self-inflicted damage weakens the cult.

            • OrangySky

              Some R-6 Implant Wisdom for y’all:

              Psalm 7:16
              The trouble they cause recoils on them; their violence comes down on their own heads.

            • Rita Gregory

              Karma will out. 🙂

            • Hubbub

              I enjoy hearing yours and everyone else’s ideas, Anon — as well as the debate that ensues. That’s what makes this forum so fun.

    • BosonStark

      I don’t think the black heart is an is an OSA op, and few people know about this trial yet, except in the community of critics — that is, people who follow Scientology news and would like to see it exposed for how they operate or what they charge for their stupid secrets and pretend super powerz.

      Clams don’t know about the trial, and it’s one of those things that is convoluted enough that will confuse everybody. At the point Miscavige is deposed it might begin to to get more attention, especially if he says something colorful or outrageous.

      Because Hubbard babbled on so much, you can start linking everything to some text of his or idea he threw out, and they often contradicted each other. As I’ve written before, there are clams who would not care or even blink, if they knew Miscavige murdered his wife, (disclaimer: she’s probably alive) just as clams like Rinder and Rathbun never considered that the Introspection Rundown did not work on Lisa McPherson and probably killed her. They were too busy clearing the planet and handling people. They thought Hubbard’s tech works 100% of the time except when not applied correctly.

      Then they blamed Miscavige for not applying it correctly, instead of it, itself — the stupid Introspection Rundown and the system of control that got them and everybody to go along with this crazy.

      The other thing going against your theory is Scientology is in a period of extreme withdrawal now, with a spokesliar who has not spoken in public for over two years. Their image is crashing. They have to keep Miscavige out of the public eye, because he is so tiny, for one thing.

      • Mooser

        Gosh, Davey could take a few tips from the Saviour! Christians are always begging us to “Come to Jesus!” but Scientology is always saying “Leave Miscavige alooooooone!”
        I’ll have to do some Bible reading and figure out where each stands on suffering little children, of course. I often find them insufferable myself.

        • BosonStark

          That’s because little Davie is the Keeper of the Tech, and so the tech and its keeper must never be criticized or made fun of. Hubbard is still the Saviour, the big BM, Barefaced Messiah. The pictures they unfurl at their rallies of Hubbard are much bigger than little Davie, and when little Davie travels to the implant station on Mars one day, there will be no pictures of him, no cigarettes left behind to smoke when he comes back.

      • Anonymous

        Not exactly sure how any of the above, much of which I agree, discounts the possibility that the black heart meme is a deliberate OSA op.

        Remember the audiences the meme (as an Op) is designed for:

        Internal Sea Org types

        Critical ex’s and their supporters

        Sycophant Scientology public

        Although I understand that some folks will point out the obvious absurdities of Scientology and then decide that nothing but absurdities can occur, the situation is much more complex than that and also much more dangerous.

        I did not say that Scientology is growing stronger, not did I defend the organization in any way.

        I pointed out that the black heart meme is probably an OSA Op with probable intended goals and that it parallels similar ops spawned from Hubbard policies that were written specifically to design and perpetrate such PR actions.

      • StatusLevelUp

        “Because Hubbard babbled on so much, you can start linking everything to some text of his or idea he threw out, and they often contradicted each other. As I’ve written before, there are clams who would not care or even blink, if they knew Miscavige” committed crimes.

        Well said, BosonStark!

    • Mooser

      I think it might be simpler than that, Anon. As I read it “black-hearted” started out as a description by Cedillo(?) of Marty and/or Mosey Rathbun! Didn’t it? Later on, as the Scientology lawyer struggled with his ‘ecclesiastical immunity’ concept, he made a classic Freudian slip, and referred to Miscaviges “black heart” which is excused, I guess he is contending, by his religious position.

    • Keeping Scientology Waning

      I have to at least partially agree with these points – even after reading the note from TO whose opinion I greatly respect and would be in a much more knowledgable position than me. . But The first time I read the reports of the BH reference I just didn’t feel like it was something that he just blurted out without thinking it through because it just too obvious – deliberately obvious. And that was before he repeated it. My mind immediately went to the discussions about the surveillance of the Rathbuns and how they found the camera in the woods. Im sorry that I cant remember who made the point (50,000’000 comments ago ….) but it was pointed out that the obvious surveillance was likely just for show and intimidation. The more dangerous actions were going at the same time out of sight and were likely to be much more damaging. The outside layer was to distract from the real goals. I just felt like that was what was going on in the courtroom….and I immediately wondered what is it we are being distracted from?

      I do agree that his minions will revere his BH, but I have a feeling that’s just icing.

      A question…..when I read the legal responses from the lawyer (the letter etal from yesterday) I wondered if that particular lawyer always used the same flowery, near-hysteric overblown writing style in his other responses to the court….I mean with other defendants. It would be interesting to compare but I don’t know how to search for that without possibly breaking the internet.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t know the answer to the question…and will defer to others that may have first hand information.

      • Robert Eckert

        The letter from yesterday was obviously imposed on Lamont by his deranged client.

      • richelieu jr

        I suspect the attorneys whipped up the two professional-looking videos with clips from around the world in their spare time. Nobody pushes those guys around, they’re rebels, crusaders for truth, justice and… a screw it. I hope they bleed him dry fighting a lost battle that he could have avoided by simply not being a prick.

        • Robert Eckert

          You think that “not being a prick” would be simple for him?

          • richelieu jr

            Exactly. It’s like the story of the frog and the scorpion. The little slapper can’t help it.

    • Gerard Plourde

      “Is the “Miscavige has a black heart” meme a deliberate OSA Op? I believe it is.”

      Well, if it is it’s another one we can chalk up as a potential footbullet. “The leader of Scientology is an evil guy, but because he’s a religious leader he should be allowed to commit any injuries he wants to.” How many people would seriously buy that argument?

      • Anonymous

        Exactly.

        As Jerry Seinfeld said ” I don’t wanna be a pirate.”

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjFjD11zOCM

        • Anonymous

          My apologies for the post of two clips…the longer one is funnier in light of today’s thread. Can’t get rid of the shorter one.

          Must be an OSA Op. 😉

    • Re you final point: I don’t really think so. But don’t let that stop you from taking it this seriously.

    • Captain Howdy

      You’re obviously a very serious person who obviously doesn’t appreciate much of the J&D that goes on around here, but this is just plain loopy IMO.

      • Anonymous

        The J & D here is great fun and I engage in it myself frequently. Its a hoot.

        I also see the serious nature of things and sometimes point out those things.

        It is not important that I be right. More than a few times I’ve guessed wrong on a subject here.

        I try to respect that others will occasionally disagree with my view, which is part of the sharing / learning process for everyone.

        • Robert Eckert

          OK, no harm meant if I spoke to you overharshly. But here is how it was: Cedillo is CSI’s lawyer, not DM’s or even RTC’s, and when he talked about how “it doesn’t matter if my client has a black heart” he wasn’t talking about Davey in particular, and certainly neither he nor OSA had any way of anticipating that it would be combined with Ray’s taunting use of the title “Captain” to create this pirate culture. That was pure Bunker J & D. This poor Cedillo fellow has probably never dealt with an Internet comment thread in his life, and was not conscious that he was being scrutinized by thousands of strangers while he sweated out a difficult legal argument.

        • DeElizabethan

          And thank you for sharing.

    • Robert Eckert

      Apparently your time inside inflicted fatal injuries to your sense of humor.

      • DeElizabethan

        Yes, you’re right when it comes to certain important dangerous groups you were involved with. Thereafter you hardly have that nice sense of humor, at least all the time, but when you’re reminded of the evil, conniving, vicious, life ruining particular aspects of the cult. Plus you were once part of it and know how devious it is. Time does heal, however, one does not forget.

    • DamOTclese2

      I doubt it, “Black Heart” was added to the list of accurate depictions of the insane crook, it did not stop the accurate descriptions of the con man criminal that still get used.

      The lawyer has had to defend obviously guilty criminal individuals and criminal organizations before, he is aware that a Judge goes in to Scientology litigation knowing that the crime syndicate is guilty guilty guilty despite the Judge needing to rely entirely on the facts and arguments presented to her. The lawyer is merely reminding the Judge that Scientology is obviously an evil, criminal organization, yet the extant case is about “protected religious behavior” which the lawyer also knows it total bullshit.

      No, the stupid fuck shit it out honestly on his own, I expect.

      • Hubbub

        The “he’s an asshole, but even assholes have First Amendment rights” defense.

      • Peter

        If he did so, why then did he repeat it several times? Whatever else Cedillo might be, an idiot is not one of them.

        • Robert Eckert

          He was not conscious of playing to the Internet. He was going down a list of points that Jeffrey had made, and several times saying that such-and-such is irrelevant because it is just claiming bad intent and bad intent doesn’t matter in terms of the statute, and that was his fixed idiom for making that point.

    • Anonymous

      You could be right, but it won’t save him in the end.

      • Anonymous

        He will not be saved – agreed.

  • Peter

    “They just posted nasty stuff about our religion.” She left out a word…”They just posted nasty TRUE stuff about our religion.”

    • SandiCorrena

      It is interesting she didn’t say nasty LIES…..nasty all by itself doesn’t mean untrue….hmmmmmm

      • Observer

        Everything about Scientology is nasty dressed in nice Walmart clothing.

        • jmh

          I wasn’t aware there was ‘nice’ Walmart clothing. Lol. Although the Scilons would fit right in with these people. http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/page/2/

          • Observer

            That was the point. 😉 It looks nice from a distance, but when you get up close you see how shoddy it really is.

            • jmh

              I have a very critical eye… so even from a distance Walmart clothing looks like crap to me. But I get your point. 😉

            • Espiando

              Wal-Mart clothing is surprisingly long-wearing, and some of its business-casual stuff is good enough for what I need to wear to work (where I don’t want to wear anything expensive in case it gets splattered by impossible-to-remove soon-to-be-food residue). In other words, it stops my dick being displayed to public view, so it’s adequate.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Ditto! They have great black career slacks for the right price and they hold up well.

            • jmh

              I’m not saying I don’t shop at Walmart… I just don’t shop there for clothes. I was bought Walmart knockoffs for most of my childhood and they didn’t hold up very well so I might be a titch prejudiced against it.

            • OrangySky

              And it was made by slave labor.

      • Mooser

        Does she say which religion they are saying nasty stuff about? I don’t think she does, does she?

    • Barbara Angel

      Oh Mr Peter, it ***Really*** presses my buttons when they claim the gigantic Co$ Scam is a ‘Religion’. Outrageous rubbish. I would love a Court to force them to prove how the Scam equates to a Religion. Grrrrrrrrrrrr

      • DeElizabethan

        My comment to that is that they do BELIEVE in that sh*t. If one believes in something, does it make it a religion? I really don’t know, but they do not fall in line for any tax exemption as a church. I don’t claim to know much about religions and I never thought $camology was one.

  • OT8squared

    Regarding the footnote to Mr. Jefferson’s letter in which he cites the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – Fourth Edition – Text Revision (DSM IV TR). Projective Identification is not a recognized mental illness. It is in fact a theorized defense mechanism, which is different than a mental illness. More importantly, it is not officially recognized by the APA. The material Mr. Jefferson quotes does not come from the main body of the DSM IV TR. Instead it is in Appendix B, Criteria Sets and Axes Provided for Further Study. In Appendix B, the APA included material it was seeking further research on in order to determine its usefulness and legitimacy. The material he cites is from a proposed Defensive Functioning Scale (p. 807). The purpose of this scale would have been to identify the nature and intensity of defense mechanisms used. This scale was not included in the new DSM 5, which was released in 2013.

    The definition Mr. Jefferson gives is for projection, not projective identification. Here are the two definitions (p. 812):

    projection: The individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by falsely attributing to another his or her own unacceptable feelings, impulses, or thoughts.

    projective identification: As in projection, the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by falsely attributing to another his or her own unacceptable feelings, impulses, or thoughts. Unlike simple projection, the individual does not fully disavow what is projected. Instead, the individual remains aware of his or her own affects or impulses but misattributes them as justifiable reactions to the other person. Not infrequently, the individual induces the very feelings in others that were first mistakenly belived to be there, making it difficult to clarify who did what to whom first.

    • Drat

      I’m too hungry to think that through right now. The point really is, Mr Jefferson is not a psychiatrist and as such may possibly not have any business dishing out off-hand diagnoses. Even if he consulted a professional, I would be surprised if that person made a diagnosis without having interviewed Marty.

      More to the point, this is Monique Rathbun’s case. David Miscavige’s obsession with Marty shows in his every move.

      • Espiando

        When the suit was announced as being filed, I told everyone that DM would try to make it All About Marty. How predictable he is. I’d consider him a pathetic figure, except that that would mean I’d have to exert a fraction of an ounce of empathy and push it in his direction, and he’s not worth even that.

        • Mooser

          What is funny, Espiando (well, I find it chortle-worthy) is that I can easily, oh very easily imagine a high-echelon or inner-circle Scientology person saying the same thing. I can just hear them muttering it to somebody they trust. I really doubt that Miscavige is good at hiding obsessions.

          Only a short time before enough of them go out back for a smoke, honorable men and women all, and somebody finally says: “Are you thinking what I’m thinking….”

      • Zana

        Yes! You hit the nail on the head. Bingo! DM’s obsession with Marty shows in his every move.

        He should be afraid. Very very afraid. He said that Marty is the only one who could bring the church down, and Marty is playing this brilliantly. We will look back at this and see clearly the critical hammer that struck the chisel in just the right spot so that the whole structure weakened and came crashing down. That will probably be Marty’s hammer. And maybe even Marty’s chisel.

        • Drat

          I think it will be Monique’s hammer and Ray’s chisel. Marty may advise on the weak points, but Ray has evidently studied and understood their strategy. David Miscavige wants the court and the world the agree this is all Marty’s doing, but in reality it is David Miscavige’s doing. Let him scream blue murder while we give thanks to Monique for her strength and courage, and remember she IS the plaintiff.

          • Zana

            Love your insights. Love this blog. Everyone coming up with different perspectives and moving towards the same goal. Yes, Ray Jeffrey is amazing.

        • Seannie5

          “He said that Marty is the only one who could bring the church down,”
          I didn’t know that. Wow! I don’t get it. If scientologists think there way is THE only way and they are so law abiding then WHY are they so afraid of one man. Even without knowing all the details – if a “religion” is above board and with 12m followers, then how can one bitter apostate bring them down?

          • Zana

            I read that somewhere on the blogs… that DM said that Marty is the only one who can bring them down. I doubt that there are 12 million followers. ?? More will be revealed… I’m enjoying this like I would a soap opera.

            • Seannie5

              oh I know there isn’t 12m, but they keep insisting there is!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      The point is that the Scilons rail against the psychs. As a fundraising ploy to boot. The psychs are the ones who CREATED the DSM and definitions. Scilons are total hypocrites to say the psychs are responsible for all evil the Holocaust etc, then use psych books and psych definitions. Or are they just stoopid?

      • Drat

        They are opportunists.

        • Observer

          Filthy opportunists.

    • Imelda Marcos

      This stuff is really interesting to me, as a Canadian. There’s a theory that the sometimes excruciating detail DSM goes into, to categorize a mental disorder, is due to the way insurance companies in the United States work. My understanding is, it can be almost impossible to get insurance to pay for therapy or prescription drugs, if your doctor hasn’t used a diagnosis from the DSM.

      • OT8squared

        It is tough to get insurance to pay for services without a diagnosis. It is one of the reasons for the way the manual is written.
        The DSM is far from perfect. Psychiatry (when done right) is based on science, and science is never complete. It is sometimes flat-out wrong, and a good scientist is willing to admit to mistakes. Scientology has never admitted to a single mistake that DM or LRH made.

        • Imelda Marcos

          Yeah, I know as well as anyone that psychiatry isn’t perfect, it took years for me to be diagnosed properly, so that medication actually made a real difference. In Canada a doc can submit for payment by the Health Ministry by stating “depression” or “major depression” or any other general term. She doesn’t have to go on and on into details, and there’s no one to turn down payment at the other end. 🙁

  • Satansthetan

    Most everyone I know is tired of my talking about the evils of COS by now and I have learned to wait to be asked….however thanks to Jamie’s bit going viral, both Mrs Satan and two close friends have said, “Have you seen this…do you believe it…” Lets hope that as the news spreads the foundations crumble. Perhaps soon we will reach the tipping point, I think the whole mess will unravel relatively quickly once the general public stop seeing this cult as a weird irrelevancy and realise it is a truly dark and dangerous operation designed to con people out of cash and enslave them once they are broke.

    • domitare

      I like to find facts accepted into evidence by plaintiff and defendants and then ask scio’s “I cannot believe that the legal team will not file suit against them for saying that LRH lied about his Naval Records.” They look and learn that he did infact lied.

      • Semper Phi

        And then they say to you, “Well so what if he lied. That doesn’t matter; I know for myself that the Tech works, and that’s what matters.” They cling to that like a floating plank in the ocean.

        • domitare

          It does not matter. I’m not a sales person. You cannot make anybody change their mind, they have to do it themselves for their own reasons. Like they say “you can take the hose to the water, but you cannot make it drink.” But it will know where to return to, if it gets thirsty.

          • Semper Phi

            You’re right. When they pull out that particular justification of maintaining their blindness, I know it is time to make some “agree that we each trust different sources” statement and ease out of the conversation. If they ever start paying attention, they’ll know they can come to me with their doubts.

            • Barbara Angel

              Did you know that there really is a Legal term known as ‘Wilfully Blind’? This is true and used by lawyers to poop on someone who says they didn’t ‘know’ or ‘see’ that the Blatant B.S. staring them in the face or scam that they were perpetuating on some one else, wasn’t true. So even the High Court of Australia still uses that term to this very day. Just wondering tho’, if they said the Kool-Aid temporarily blinded them, would this get them off? lol

            • Semper Phi

              I had heard of it but didn’t know it was a real, legal term.

              Heh – You seem to have hit a nerve with a down-voter…

          • richelieu jr

            I usually take the water from the hose, personally…

            • domitare

              For me it depends, but I rather not get down an all four. LOL

            • richelieu jr

              Ha!

        • Barbara Angel

          Yep Semper, the tech works so well, look at all the sick people in Co$ especially the exceptionally high rate of Cancer among the deceased members of Co$. So clinging to their ‘floating planks’ must be such hard work, their arms must be aching by now. It’s all in the Kool-aid have another sip then we’ll clear the planet. If they can’t clear themselves with this wondrous tech what chance is there to clear the planet? Poor fools.

    • DamOTclese2

      🙂 It got posted 3 times to my Facebook wall — which I removed, leaving only one of them. It’s neat seeing people who are “non combatants” who don’t normally pick up human rights advocacy passing the word along.

      • Satansthetan

        Exactly! This is really just what is needed because the biggest threat to the COS is the truth, and nothing but the truth. Also think that the addition of Wallace to the defense is going to backfire by bringing way more media attention to Moseys case. All good!

  • OrangySky

    Re: Scientology and Jamie DeWolf:
    Here’s my own original Upworthy-style Headline for you re: the FACEBOOK anti-Upworthy campaign.
    Scientologists predictably wave the First Amendment flag to defend their religion. See what happens when someone they don’t like decides to exercise their own First Amendment rights.

  • OrangySky

    Re: Scientology and Jamie DeWolf:
    Here’s my own original Upworthy-style Headline for you re: the FACEBOOK anti-Upworthy campaign.
    Scientologists predictably wave the First Amendment flag to defend their religion. See what happens when someone they don’t like decides to exercise their own First Amendment rights.

    • domitare

      That is sooooo nice!

  • StatusLevelUp

    Good thing the Scientologists have lawyers to make the “nasty” and “gross” “stuff” go away. They apparently have the communication abilities of 3rd graders, and couldn’t defend themselves in the wog world against such awfulness and terribleness.

  • ze moo

    Clearwater and the Clampire may be doing some business together after all.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/scientologists-and-city-discuss-possible-land-swaps/2160554

    If the new elleraich auditorium and electronic incident emporium is built, maybe the IAS convention has been permanently moved to Florida.

    • InterestedinCrazy

      This image came to mind immediately. Uh, St. Pete, maybe playing Monopoly with a crook like DM isn’t such a great idea?

      http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7164/scientopoly18hu.jpg

      • InClearwater

        St. Pete? Am I ignorant of something? (And, believe me, that could well be the case.) But as far as I know, St. Pete and the Scientology organization do not mix much. St. Pete is a thriving, wonderful place to visit. Clearwater is not. Clearwater is full of empty storefronts. Clearwater kowtows too much to the Scientology organization. Clearwater throws money at downtown beautification, to no avail. Clearwater has too many half-built construction projects for sale. In short, Clearwater sucks if you’re looking to vacation on the beautiful Gulf shores.
        But St. Pete? Nice place. Great restaurants. Highly recommend.
        And a land-swap deal? Yeah, right. Well, go for it, Mayor and council members. It won’t make one iota of difference. Clearwater is the (expletive) of Pinellas County and will remain so. Sad to say.

        • InterestedinCrazy

          It’s like ‘Jesus Marimba’ or ‘Holy Jehosophat’…I know it’s Clearwater!

          I’ll edit to clarify! Sorry for the insult St. Pete!

          • InClearwater

            But St. Pete is not Clearwater. 🙂

            • InterestedinCrazy

              Yes, I know that! 🙂 Pretend like I said ‘For the love of St. Patrick!’ …I edited it out and apologies.

            • InClearwater

              LOL. Now if you could just teach me how to get actual paragraphs in my messages, I would be forever grateful.
              😉

            • Robert Eckert

              Hit Enter twice. If you hit Enter once, sometimes Disqus does not believe you really want a line break, but do it twice

              and it does.

            • InClearwater

              Oh, I so thank you. That was driving me nuts.
              And, no, I’m not anal-retentive. Not at all. 😀

            • Robert Eckert

              Does “anal retentive” really need a hyphen?

            • InClearwater

              LOL, Robert. I appreciate all of your posts.
              One of my friends once made me a T-shirt that said: “Does anal retentive need a hyphen?”
              What fun. Every time I wore it, I got into some rather interesting discussions. Strangers felt free to approach me, sit down next to me. Most were humorous. But sometimes I got someone who actually wanted to debate the issue. That was fun too. That was when I practiced keeping a straight face. Must Not Laugh. I think I did fairly well at that, even though I didn’t take any of the Scientology courses that supposedly help you at not reacting to things.
              I’m a wog and damn proud of it.

            • Robert Eckert

              I have CDO.

              That’s like OCD, but I have to put the letters in the right order.

        • DeElizabethan

          Hey, wait a minute, Clearwater Beach is the nicest one around and has won standing awards. Maybe, as was brought up at one time, maybe they will succeed (spelling) or detach from the city.

          • Robert Eckert

            If they try to secede, I hope they succeed!

            • DeElizabethan

              LOL, tks.. 2 dictionaries and couldn’t find it.! Yes if this Aquarium deal doesn’t work they may rethink it.

    • Mark

      Oh {joy}. More merciless regging for the auditorium &c, just when the clams thought they’d got off the hook with FLAG opening…

      • Missionary Kid

        As long is one is a clam, they’re NEVER off the hook.

      • OT8squared

        Hundreds of millions of dollars isn’t enough to build both an oilness table and an auditorium.

        • Mark

          Or reserve most of the future output of the Macallan distillery for the next 25 years, or corner the market in burlwood pens and dashboards, or buy enough ‘Liftee’ invisible height-increasing shoe-inserts, or replace the UV tubes in one’s thermonuclear sunbed…

    • Gerard Plourde

      “maybe the IAS convention has been permanently moved to Florida.”

      If so, will European clams want to come to the U.S.? Or is he unconsciously telegraphing that the bulk of the cult’s money comes from U.S. whales who don’t want the cost of going to Europe every year?

      • The criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology just couldn’t handle the protesters at Stain Hill?!? Works for me 😀

        • Gerard Plourde

          I had forgotten about the infiltration of the IAS event. Of course Mike Rinder’s buzzing of the Flag opening is even worse. DM must be between a rock and a hard place figuring out what to do next.

      • ze moo

        Saint Hill is still the clam capital of the UK, but how many clams are really in the UK? The last UK census figures had them ‘officially’ around 2500. Not very many, but if they all produce money, enough to keep St. Hill open. We will have to see if the tent goes back before we can try to guess what the clams are up to.

        After St. HIll, Copenhagen is most important clampile in Europe. I haven’t seen any info re its status in a long time. I shall have to search more and type less……

  • Tony Ortega

    Message for Valerie and Espiando: Just because someone has not posted here much does not automatically make them a sock, and particularly a sock of a certain someone from the great northwest. (In fact, I find no evidence that you-know-who has visited this site since December 21.) Your attempts to “out” people have been clumsy and mean, and I’m not going to put up with it much longer.

    That goes for everyone else, too. Please try to stick to the subject, and stop attacking other people because you have some notion that they’re socks. Leave the banning to me, please.

    • Mark

      Quite right, Tony. There’s been more than a whiff of mob-mentality around here lately.

      • Mooser

        The best way to act in a comment section, is as if you are a guest in somebody’s home. Drink all the booze on offer, eat up all the hoe’s-douvres, smile, be pleased to meet everyone, offer an epigram or brittle jape, and leave the clean-up to the owner.

        Like I always say, if you don’t have to nurse a drink, why nurse a grudge?

        • Seannie5

          and complain about them on the way home? 😀

          • Mooser

            And stay the hell out of the medicine cabinet, too! Those are people’s prescribed medications, not your stash box!
            You know, If I could follow my own advice, I could hang out with a much better class of people.

        • Mark

          Are you sure you don’t mean horse’s-doovers?

          • scottishinlondon

            or hoor’s drawers?

            • Mark

              I thought they were called “yo-yo-panties”.

          • InClearwater

            Pretty sure he meant whore’s ovaries.

            • Barbara Angel

              What’s the equivalent of a male whore then? The world is quick to label women as whores, but never seem to have invented a name for men who sell there bodies too.

            • Miss Tia

              I thought gigolo was the word for male whores?

            • MaxSpaceman

              Nope.
              @ 53rd & 3rd Avenue in Manhattan, there are male prostitutes, male whores, male hookers. For gay clientele. A gigolo is preying on (or servicing, whichever may be) women clientele.

            • Miss Tia

              Ah, thank you. Not up on that lingo anyway. I once answered phones for an escort service, but it was only ‘ladies’ though there was some requests for men! I immediately thought of the movie American Gigolo, which I never saw, but had the 45 (still do) of Call Me by Blondie! And the song ‘Gigolos get lonely too’ by The Time! 🙂

            • HelenNPN

              Perhaps catamite can be thrown in.

            • Robert Eckert

              Classically, catamites were usually underage, and almost always enslaved, not paid.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Holy Cow! (And in saying that I don’t mean to in anyway diminish the Hindu people). But, HOLY COW! Up until now I had never even heard the word CATAMITE.

            • Robert Eckert

              It is believed to be a worn-down pronunciation of “Ganymede”, a pretty boy Zeus snatched.

            • Mooser

              Catamites are easily eliminated with mineral oil. If the infestation persists, see your vet.

            • Barbara Angel

              Mr Max, the terms alluded to are still derogatory ‘names’ used mainly for women. Sad tho’ how many actual names are used to depersonalise women who are providing a community service.

            • Mooser

              You are simply not a gigolo if you don’t dance and don’t where evening dress. Gigolos have standards. The Midnight Cowboy, in spite of his small success in this way, was not a gigolo.

            • Barbara Angel

              Naaaah Miss Tia, gigolo is not offensive enough. It alludes to a charming, debonair man who beds a lot of women. A whore on the other hand, is viewed as a low creature. Strange the way some men who must be terrified of women always go for an insult which relates to a women in a sexual way. Example, slut? The dictionary definition of slut had nothing to do with a woman’s’ sexual behaviour, it concerned her lack of house keeping abilities instead. This too was twisted into a sexual insult. Sad Huh?

            • Mooser

              “Just a gigolo
              Everywhere I go,
              People know the part I’m playing.
              Paid for every dance,
              Selling each romance.
              Every night, some heart betraying.”

              Frankly, I’d rather be “A Ding-Dong Daddy from Dumas” but you can’t have everything.

            • MaxSpaceman

              That’s because the term is simply prefaced with “male” or “he.”
              — Oh, no, it’s just that he’s a male prostitute.
              — He’s a whore.

            • Barbara Angel

              So a term used against women has been adapted to fit the male. It’s still predominantly used against women. *Dick Driven Shit* is a term that comes to mind. Lets hope I get lots of ‘down votes’ for this one. I’m going to make ‘Down Votes’ into a **must have** status symbol. lol

            • MaxSpaceman

              the problem is that ‘dick-driven shit’ doesn’t convey selling sex to a buyer. So that won’t work.

            • Barbara Angel

              Hahahaha didn’t have my marketing ‘hat’ on. I’ll try to do better next time. lol

            • Betsy

              AND we need a word that is EQUALLY loaded for men who use prostitutes. After all…without them, no prostitutes would exist.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, but I don’t think we’ll ever catch up to the multitude of filthy names men like to call us. It all boils down to fear of women. And the fact that males will never be ‘Goddesses’ like us. lol Hopefully I’ll get lots of down votes for this. Down Votes are the new ‘Must Haves’…….Hahahahahaha

            • AutOmatic

              “Down Votes are the new ‘Must Haves'”, lol this trend I can get behind wholeheartedly, I have my own personal army of haters it seems, and I absolutely love them! XD

            • Betsy

              Aw, darn, I upvoted you and lost my chance to be loved! Could you make an exception in my case?

            • AutOmatic

              Aw of course 🙂 I love upvoters too!

            • Betsy

              We could have a long (possibly CENTURIES-long) discussion about this! But I’m afraid it would have to be on another venue.

              Remember “Most Likely To” things in high school? The daily top-scorer among the meaninglessly downvoted could be awarded something like “Most Likely to Irritate Those Who Should Be Getting Treatment”.

            • Barbara Angel

              Hahahahah love it, well said.

            • Imelda Marcos

              Men who sell their bodies are “escorts”, coz it’s so classy. *rolleyes*

            • Mooser

              “The world is quick to label women as whores, but never seem to have invented a name for men who sell their bodies too.”

              Oh yes it does, and it is a name for a man who has sunk to the very nadir of degradation, a man scorned by all! We are called “husbands”. (Buries face in hands, sobs in shame)

            • Jon Hendry

              “rent boy”, “hustler”, etc

            • richelieu jr

              Himbo

        • Barbara Angel

          Leave the clean up to the owner? Nice = Not. I didn’t down vote you as I would rather say what I think instead of hiding behind a down vote.

          • Mooser is a bit of a Marxist, Groucho variety, and sometimes his humor, like his antlers, accidentally rub people the wrong way. He was a newby for a while, and it was a rough learning curve for Mooser in the beginning, but he is improving, if you can believe it.

            He’s a good guy at heart, IMHO.

            • Mooser

              Chutney, I have an infallible method for avoiding any argument or insult in a comment section. If, after I have written something, I see it on the screen and say to myself: “Oh, crap, I didn’t bow to the proper tutelary Gods and icons, that’s gonna piss people off”, I immediately turn the computer off before they can answer, and don’t come back until tomorrow.
              I’ll show them they can’t intimidate me!.

            • I get so few downvotes that I wear them as badges of honor, kinda like the kind you get if win a few times at the pachinko parlor and want to use up your tokens.

          • Mooser

            “Leave the clean up to the owner? Nice = Not.”

            At a big catered bash like they throw here? Heck no, there’s properly skilled staff for that.

        • richelieu jr

          Ahem.. sorry, can’t help myself, “hors d’oeuvres’?- (feel free to correct my English!)

          It is kind of hard for anglophones to say, too, so you my prefer ‘petits fours’ (say ‘puh-tee foo-or’)

      • Barbara Angel

        Yes and I’ve been on the receiving end of a few pack-attacks. I felt they were unjustified and said so, including taking the time to explain it to the ‘pissy pants’ attackers. Or as I call them, the Word Police. There is an element of two sets of rules, 1). We can say what we want. 2). You can’t. Then comes the hypocrisy of what a wonderful community “we” are, but not you. Blah….

        • Robert Eckert

          The directive against saying things that can be taken as threats of violence came from Tony, and you frequently fight against it stubbornly.

          • Barbara Angel

            Bugger off Mr Robert I’m sick of you and your ‘policing’ of other peoples words. I’ve explained it all to you and you can either read and ‘learn’ or leave me alone. Thanks.
            And please give me some ‘more’ down votes as they are the New “must haves’.

            • Robert Eckert

              I have never given you a down-vote and never will. But if you argue again about whether threats of violence are appropriate on this board I will continue to make it plain, for the sake of anyone else who is reading, that they are not.

            • Barbara Angel

              Which part of bugger off and leave me alone, didn’t you get?

            • Robert Eckert

              The part where you apparently believe I am obliged to obey you.

    • Mooser

      Don’t worry about the great, or the not-so-great, or even the downright-frickin-cold-rainy-and-miserable-flu-ridden Northwest. I’ve got it covered. Nothing gets past me! And I never sleep more than 20 hours a day!

      • Mooser

        Sorry, sorry, all I saw was “clumsy and mean” and thought he was talking about me.

    • Captain Howdy

      Duly noted and generally speaking I agree with the sentiment.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Down votes, too, can cause various posters some consternation. 8 hours ago, Jimmy Threetimes posted excellent advice which helps a lot: “Down votes should be disregarded entirely until someone follows up with an explicit statement that includes a) I was one to down vote you, and b) this is why I down voted you. Lacking that, we should pay it no mind. I suspect the downvoter trolls played a huge role tonight and they have done so without having to type a single word.”

      • noseinabk

        True, but when you make controversial religious, political or WTF statements, be prepared.
        ….

        • Artoo45

          I know this all too well. I responded to a flamingly offensive political post from someone I’d never seen, it escalated, I called they guy an OSA troll, because he was using the same “lib vs. ‘bagger” flame war tactics that OSA uses over at Hollywood Reporter whenever a negative cult article is posted there. The post was ugly and I responded in an ugly way. Then I got dog-piled. Once I cooled off, I felt bad about what I’d written and I apologized. I’ve been at this since 1999. I know better. Guess I needed a refresher. Inflammatory, off topic posts are rude and ill advised. Best not to respond to them either.

          • Mooser

            “Firm but polite” or “polite, but firm” I can’t remember which, is my policy. Straight men are people, too!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              That’s my policy when choosing avocados.

            • Observer

              Jimmy, you slay me!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              And you me 🙂

            • Mooser

              I’ve never tried an avocado as a straight man. How’s their timing?

        • texasexpat

          I justaccidentally up voted you, although the up vote was deserved it made me realize how easy it would be to accidentally down oat someone. I’m on my iPad in a hotel with horribly slow Internet

          • Robert Eckert

            Some down-votes are known to have resulted from “fat fingering” especially on phones. It is easy enough to fix if you find you have done it accidentally: click the same arrow again to erase, or click the other arrow and it will remove your old vote and cast the new one simultaneously.

            • texasexpat

              Thanks. Also, the little pop up message was on top of the message I was trying to type so I was typing blind as you can see from my spelling. I really hate Ipads for messaging, but I carry it instead of my laptop when I travel. On a side note, still mostly lurking not posting as I really have nothing witty or intelligent to add to the great and thoughtful conversations that I see here.

      • scottishinlondon

        How could anyone downvote a rational statement like that? and yet someone has done so…well done nameless numbnuts you just made Max Spaceman’s point for him.

        • Mooser

          Heard at the super-double-secret Scientology Downvoter Tech morning strategy meeting:

          “I don’t understand it, I just don’t, we keep on downvoting, downvoting,downvoting, and their web-stats just keep going up! We’ll have to try harder!”

          If you were a website owner, would you buy a commenting system which would allow people to lower stats? Or reflect badly on individual commenters? I wouldn’t, but I don’t know much about the web.

          • scottishinlondon

            I don’t think there would be any financial incentive for anybody to design such a thing. I suspect OSA knows this and it is a form of psychological warfare, intended to make people here paranoid, rather than an attempt to affect webstats.

            • Mooser

              I know this one guy, and people ganged up on him, and he got so many down-votes they took his Internet away! But then he got his friends to explain (Boy, we’re they embarrassed!) that it was just a joke, so they gave him his access back.

        • richelieu jr

          Hell, pe-ople have been downvoted for wishing someone Happy Birthday…

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Sometimes I will upvote or downvote when I am in a hurry and have no time to comment. I believe that a lot of this would be solved if NONE of them were anonymous.

        • Betsy

          That seems correct to me. I’m still not clear what a Sock IS, although I appear to have been instantly pegged as one. One of the parties who wanted to unsock me…a Psycho Psock Pseeker?…lured me into a short exchange that seemed creepy enough that I deleted my well-intentioned answers. At first I had thought it was some kind of friendly hazing, but then I began to think that it was a Scientologist trying to scare me! And from reading this blog I’m already darn scared of THEM.

          • StatusLevelUp

            A sock, or sock puppet, refers to an alternate posting identity. This is a problem if someone uses a sock (alternate name) to influence discussions nefariously. For instance, someone who responds to their own post with a sock, saying “Great post!”

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Well said!

            • ReneeG

              Great post! (Gee, I crack myself up sometimes!)

            • StatusLevelUp

              Hey, you’re not my sock:)

            • Sibs

              (Was wondering when someone would do that.)

            • Betsy

              Finally I find out! These things are so convoluted…I would never had guessed that one. Great post, Betsy! Oh…oops…I mean StatusLevel!

            • Guest

              Truly splendiferous and scintillating post… it resonates on so many different levels

            • Mooser

              Wait a gol-darn minute, here! Nobody in this crazy, mixed-up world has ever tried the “nemisis-sock” technique? That might be fun! First I post a comment, then under a ‘sock’ handle, post a comment telling me how stupid I am. Then of course, I write back defending myself, and then, it starts getting personal…! That, a guy could have some fun with, if it wasn’t too much effort.

            • Zer0

              Not a bad idea. It might not pan out to be very funny, but it’s amusing in theory.

          • Guest

            I am a sock

            • Betsy

              Oh! Well, that certainly answers the question for me…

        • Barbara Angel

          I WILL down vote if they insist on defending Co$. Although after thinking about it, in particular ‘SoS’ remember him/her? I felt that poor person was in an untenable situation and that if we showed kindness to s/he it may have been the path out for them. Because blind Freddy can see, that being trapped in Co$ is a fate worse than death. If they don’t post rubbish on this post they will receive a kicking, so I still think kindness should prevail. By pack-attack we are just showing them more ugliness, we need to be showing them that there is another, better way to live.

          • stillgrace2

            After what SoS posted to Tory, he can kiss my ass.

            • SandiCorrena

              After crossing that line he’s got legions of asses he can kiss

      • Barbara Angel

        Mr Max, the problem is down votes are anonymous and cowardly. Perhaps if Mr Tony would allow the down voters to have their sign in name exposed the ‘nasties’ would think twice before pouncing unfairly?

        • Observer

          I just ignore ’em. IMO they mean one of two things (when they’re given to people who aren’t trolling or being otherwise disruptive):

          1. You’ve offended the delicate sensibilities of a lurking Scilon;
          2. Someone is trying to bait you, hoping to cause disharmony, in which case there will be a lot of downvotes popping up in the surrounding comments as well.

          • blahman

            Or maybe someone just genuinely disagrees with the substance of a comment. Are people really so offended by that? Aren’t up-votes and down-votes just ways for fellow readers to express agreement or disagreement with what’s been written?

            Since when is honest disagreement, even if anonymous, cowardly? To me, it seems more cowardly to genuinely disagree with something but not express it out of fear of creating disharmony or disapproval from others.

            • Observer

              Please show me where I said or implied that the use of down arrows is cowardly.

            • blahman

              Hey Observer, you’re one of my absolute faves! My reply was really directed to a combination of your comment and the one above. I’m not even sure I know exactly what conversation I’ve gotten involved with. I’ve been following Tony’s work for years (yes, actually “years”) but I know nothing of socks or shoes or finger-puppets or the like.

              My point was simply that an anonymous down-vote offers someone (who may respectfully disagree) a certain amount of protection from the ill will of another honest bunkerite. But the fact that I’ve become involved in this type of discussion shows only how little I’ve got going on on a rainy Saturday evening…

            • Observer

              No worries. My post does sound a bit snippy, which isn’t what I intended.

              I’ll repeat: anyone is welcome to voice their disagreement with me, and I will not attack them for it.

          • Ardent

            I think you’re quite right. Downvotes ought to be ignored.

        • Barbara Angel

          YAY X 1,000 I got three down votes, they are the New ‘Must Haves’, please sir ‘may I have another’? The more down votes I get the happier I am. lol

          • Observer

            That’s the spirit!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Number four is mine. Cheers.

        • Barbara Angel

          YAY X 1,000 I got 5 DV’s I’m today’s winner and grinner. Thanks guys. But Please sir, could I have some ‘Moare’. hahahahahahaha

    • Karen715

      First of all, thank you Tony! Even though I’m not involved, either as an accuser or an accusee, the nastiness was starting to get to me. Considering how many comments this blog gets, this post might get buried by day’s end. I hope everyone who needs to see it, does.

    • Anonymous3000

      Yeah! Anonymous3000 got beat up too.

      • scottishinlondon

        OMG they are still at it with the downvotes too! Hail Xenu, glory to his sacred B52s

        • Captain Howdy

          All you have to do is look at Anonymous3000’s previous comments to understand the bad vibes they have received.

          • scottishinlondon

            mmmm…yes, there are a couple of unfortunate comments in there for sure

          • richelieu jr

            How can we chaeck out someone’s profile when they haven’t posted that day (i mean when there isn’t post to click on)? Usually I click on the avatar, but other than that, I is lost, meine amigo.

        • vistaril_LOL

          Yeah, I’m collecting them thick and fast today.

          • scottishinlondon

            Just think of them as flowers thrown amidst cheers

          • Robert Eckert

            You are using a nickname similar to “Vistaril” who is a respected long-timer. Choosing a name confusingly alike to someone else’s has also been something that “they” have done. I expect that is why you have drawn suspicion.

            • vistaril_LOL

              Maybe I could become Atarax????? It’s good anyway.

            • Robert Eckert

              Taking on an avatar, quite visually distinctive from Vistaril’s Judge Waldrip, helps.

        • MaxSpaceman

          uhm, wouldn’t that be ” DC8s “, S I L ?!?

          • scottishinlondon

            Oh damn it! You are absolutely right of course…

    • Betsy

      Oh, with pleasure! I just got on the Bunker, which I am enjoying, and immediately found myself the target of one or two attackers! I had no idea what the story was or who they were imagining me to be. The huge value of the site as an exchange of information is compromised by that sort of thing.

      • Mooser

        Betsy, nobody gets nothin’ past the Bunker comment section! Steely eyed observers, we are! Implacable seekers of direct evidence!

        • Betsy

          Oh, thank you, Mr. Moose! Or Ms. Moose! This blog is so full of people with good minds (and even with good spelling and grammar, unlike much of the net) that I hated the idea of abandoning it. I see you got hit by a Debbie Downer (just found out the meaning of that myself) for your message to me. I made the mistake of thinking they were tied to actual faults in my logic!

          • Mooser

            Betsy, a downvote is simply an up-side-down up-vote turned right-side up!

            They both, I strongly suspect, serve the same exact purpose (and a worthy one) a “hit” for the website. I do not think they have another other function.

            • Barbara Angel

              Except when the down vote is done by ‘nasties’ here, who won’t allow any one else to have an opinion different to their own. Shades of Co$…. anyone?

            • Mooser

              Ms. Angel, why don’t you tell me what a down-vote does? What does it do to the person? What does it do to the site.
              And of course, what scares me the most how many downvotes is too many?? And what happens then!

            • Barbara Angel

              Well Mr Mooser, a DV is a compliment and I love’em. No such thing as toooooo many DV’s. They are done usually by cowards, ‘word police’ or trolls trying to start up trouble. The Absolute Best Part is; if its done by trolls, this means they are “reading” and “learning”. By reading & learning & DVing this may lead them to the courage to escape from Co$. So bring’em on. lol

            • Mooser

              But what happens if I get to many down-votes? I’m probably close. This isn’t the only site I post at.

      • Barbara Angel

        Yes Betsy although I’m wondering if its the ‘Word Police’……Or trolls trying to stir up trouble? Best if down votes included peoples sign in names, although cowardly ‘word police’ can still down vote as a guest. Best to take no notice and focus on the topic. And I’m speaking from experience I’ve been on the receiving end of a few accusations. This site has ***HUGE VALUE*** and maybe that’s why it attracts down voting trolls?

        • Betsy

          I think you’re exactly right. I don’t care about the downs (as long as they don’t prefigure some visit by David Miscarriage’s thugs to my house). Anyone who downvotes a message such as “Thanks for the welcome” is obviously pursuing a personal agenda and not commenting on content. If a message that doesn’t even express an opinion is downvoted, it becomes a genuine joke on the need-to-get-a-life set. I think Tony O is providing a tremendous service and I’m honored to participate in whatever small way I can. I appreciate your sharing your experiences!

      • Jon Hendry

        I will just say that your exclamation-point laden online persona is grating as fuck. You come off like Victoria Jackson.

        • Betsy

          Actually there’s a great way to eliminate your painful grating sensation. When you see my grating-as-fuck avatar at the head of a grating-as-fuck comment filled with grating-as-fuck exclamation points…
          DON’T READ IT. Continue on until you find some aggressive-as-fuck persona like your own and frolic happily there instead.

    • Makes sense to me. Anyway, who cares if someone is a sock? It’s the replies to the trolls which are clogging the place up…

    • Barbara Angel

      Well said Mr Tony, I’ve been accused twice of being a sock on this site. Actually accused of being a Co$ spy??? It was so ridiculous I didn’t bother to defend. It’s good to hear you are in control of your site and I thank you for that. Also I thank you from the heart for your time; trouble and many sacrifices that you have made to bring the multiple Co$ criminal violations to the cyber world. I’m sure you’ve made a *Huge* Contribution to saving any potential future victims. The Underground Bunker is a Community ***Service*** of the highest order. Kind regards, your greatest fan. B.A.

      • Anonymous

        Everyone will be labeled a sock from time to time. I used to post frequently on a message board with about a dozen devoted SP’s, and we were a tight group. Then one day, an OSA troll showed up and called me an OSA troll. I admitted to it, in a tongue in cheek way, and said Mike Rinder had assigned me and I couldn’t leave until he told me to. Rinder was still missing at the time, so we all had a good laugh about it.

    • Satansthetan

      Amen! Ignore-tech works.

      • StatusLevelUp

        Image- refresh

    • woodrose

      Thank you, Tony.

      If your evidence is correct (and I assume it is), that you-know-who hasn’t visited this site since Dec 21, then a commenter was unjustly run out of here by a misguided witch hunt accusing her of being a sock for the catfish. Not the best moment for the Bunker. I hope your new policy prevents any recurrence.

      • stillgrace2

        IP identification masking is a relatively easy task to perform. Just saying.

        • Tony Ortega

          Yes it is, Grace. But I’m getting pretty tired of receiving anguished emails from people sharing with me all of their private information in order to prove that they’re not socks after they’ve been roughed up by the fucking sock police here. So until people can come up with a better way to sniff out a sock than sheer guessing, I’d prefer they knock it off.

          • stillgrace2

            Here’s my take on socks. I will probably always be suspicious of new people who set their accounts to private and share inappropriate personal information too fast and too soon. Posters who are all “me, me, me, look at me, see me, love me, feel sorry for me” are just suspicious.

            We can’t stop people from taking out socks, and we can’t stop them from talking to themselves.
            What we can do is NOTICE any poster that is shiny, and promotes themselves through making their comments ultimately about themselves. If these comments disrupt the bunker or derail topics, it will become obvious, and we can deal with the disruption.

            What I really, really, really don’t want in the bunker is a “Munchausen by Internet” fraudster getting their rocks off parading themselves around in the bunker or someone who writes things to target and specifically hurt people.

            Anything else that doesn’t disrupt, I’ll let slide.

            • Tony Ortega

              I have a better idea. When a poster writes about themselves, how about just ignoring it?

            • stillgrace2

              That’s the “slide” part I mentioned. Disrupters that don’t like Mr. Hawkins, I give them a link to some of yours or his work.

            • Sergeant Pepper

              Hear,hear!

            • Tone

              I can’t help but notice you have your history set to private…
              See how it starts?
              Let everything slide, everyone will be happier.

            • stillgrace2

              I have my history set to private because I have a stalker that can no longer insult me here and likes to follow me to other sites. Any more questions??!!

            • Rita Gregory

              stillgrace2 that is exactly why I had to set mine to private also and is a perfectly good reason to do so.

            • Miss Tia

              I wish we could REMOVE people who decide to follow us. I understand why some people make their disqus private, same as why so many wish to use a moniker. Some people I think start out with their disqus private because they don’t like the idea of their comments being publicly traceable by anyone, and I can understand that too.

            • MaxSpaceman

              I set mine to private, Miss T, after a year or whatever it was because I started defending the Bunker, Bunkeroos and Tony O over at R O L. Now here in the Bunker, over time, even staying on topic, Bunkeroos get to know and like other Bunkeroos. Then personal info. pops out. Some personal troubles pop out. Others then share their personal experience to perhaps help or advise someone. And I find that one of the grandest aspects of being a Bunkeroo.

              But when I started troll-skirmishing, I realized, Oh shite! I’m raking that ‘monster’ over the coals about his foibles and weaknesses or whatevers and there I have a couple thousand comments buried in which is a whole slew of personal information which the troll could use to attack me.

              I think I’m going to stop troll-skirmishes and take off disqus-private setting over the course of time. I don’t know . . .

            • Ardent

              I THINK mine’s private, too (not sure where the setting is, precisely) because I fear the cult. They scare the bejesus out of me. Setting things to private is simply a personal thing, and lots of people online prefer to remain as anonymous as possible for a great many perfectly reasonable reasons. It should not be taken as a sign of shiftiness.

            • Tone

              Look I don’t care. My observation was merely illustrative of the harm that innuendo can cause, and judging by your reaction, you get it.

            • stillgrace2

              Innuendo? I don’t deal with innuendo. I deal with facts. And I won’t be discussing this further with you.

            • Tone

              Lol have a good day stillgrace2, I am not your enemy.

            • Robert Eckert

              Someone soliciting of personal information or money has to be stopped. Someone spreading dead-agenting has to be argued against. Let us adopt those as the lines and disregard what does not rise to that level.

            • woodrose

              How about respecting our host and following his request? Tony says HE will deal with problem posters.

              “Please try to stick to the subject, and stop attacking other people because you have some notion that they’re socks. Leave the banning to me, please.”

            • Robert Eckert

              Tony did not know the last problem poster WAS a problem until it was brought to his attention. The issue is, what makes a poster a “problem”?

            • Mooser

              “Tony did not know the last problem poster WAS a problem until it was brought to his attention.”

              And, if I am not mistaken, the only reason any of that was brought to Tony’s attention, and had to be dealt with was because of people who decided they wanted to play roles inappropriate to a comment section, Somebody decided this was a proper venue for private charity.

              And exactly, what does it profit Tony if you drive anyone away?

            • woodrose

              Communicating privately with Tony and allowing him to investigate and take action is always the correct action if you have concerns about a poster, as was done with you-know-who. No matter which variety of problem poster.

              Starting a flamewar or a witch hunt on a suspected ‘troll’ is disruptive to the conversation, no matter the variety of troll.

              This excellent post from NeverIn is a great Guide to Trolls, and also gives good advice on how to swim in troll-infested waters. http://tonyortega.org/2013/12/26/scientologys-2013-in-review-madness-set-in-as-spring-arrived/#comment-1180748867

              Stay on topic is rule number one. (which I’m going to try and follow myself and make sure any further posts of mine are about Scientology.)

              I highly recommend everyone read it, and it could be useful as a ‘Read Before Posting Here’ guide with a permanent link on the front page.

            • DeElizabethan

              Great idea!

            • Jon Hendry

              Note that the real “problem” arose after months and months and months of posts, escalating to the point of fundraising, not three days after the person first showed up.

              It seems ridiculous for people here to be leaping to shout J’ACCUSE! at people with brief posting histories. That Wasn’t The Problem With 26.

            • Robert Eckert

              The hints about how she was in dire need of money did show up within the first few days, and a lot of us wish in hindsight we had more of a tingly spider-sense from the beginning.

            • Karen715

              Okay, in the spirit of honesty encouraged above, I downvoted this post, and here is why:
              Grace, you are a valuable commenter here, and I am truly sorry about the horrible comments that were made to you by a certain person. But who do you think you are to say what you will or will not let “slide” after the proprietor of this blog posted an admonition to stop sock-hunting?

            • Robert Eckert

              She is the person who discovered the 26. We are all greatly in her debt.

            • Karen715

              That’s nice, and I guess I should be grateful for that. But I still think her posts today are out of line.

            • Robert Eckert

              And I think that yours are. What happened last night was extreme, and Tony wants that level of sock-hunting stopped. But disruptive infiltration HAS been a destructive problem here, and if anybody has a right to ask for clarification on how such things are to be handled from now on, it is stillgrace.

            • Karen715

              I’m not arguing with her right to ask for clarification; I am arguing with her right to speak as if she is the arbiter of what should be allowed to “slide” here and what isn’t. I don’t care if you think I’m out of line. I’m not one of the “cool kids” here, and I’m not a party to what goes on behind the scenes, at the Rodeo, etc. But I do I have an opinion, and I voiced it, and that is all I’m going to say on this matter, and probably on any other. In fact, I think I’ll go back to reading the post of the day, and searching for comments from knowledgeable exes, and leave the rest of you to troll hunt and bicker the livelong day.

            • stillgrace2

              You have the right to express your opinion … as do I! And I did. And I will again.
              I don’t do the rodeo.

            • stillgrace2

              I missed yesterday, except for the morning. I spent a wonderful day with my family.
              I still don’t know what happened yesterday, and I’m just moving on with my fascination concerning the demise of the criminal organization known as CoS.
              Thanks for your support.

            • Mooser

              “Anything else that doesn’t disrupt, I’ll let slide.”

              Ah, justice should always be tempered with mercy, especially when you have the power to dispense it as you see fit!

            • Midwest Mom

              You have helped a lot of people, Grace through your advocacy and through your intelligence, wit , logic and lovely sense of compassion. You’re a smart cookie and I
              am very grateful you are here!

              x o x

            • Ardent

              I completely agree. The ’26’ event was painful as anything for a lot of us. I was completely invested in aspects of it. Silly me. I suppose some of that bad karma is still zinging around. I am just interested in the whole reason we’re here: learn about and watch the demise of one of the most evil, unpleasant cults in modern history.

          • Betsy

            Oh, thanks, Mr. Tony! So I’ll spare you my life history…which might easily have put you into a permanent stupor of boredom, and then who would run the Bunker? And keep DM’s tiny heart pitty-patting from anxiety? Thanks to you from me!

            • MaxSpaceman

              lulz !

            • Barbara Angel

              Betsy dear, how come you’re getting so many down votes? Clearly as they are the New ‘Must Haves’ people admire you. I’ve only had the maxim of 3 today and I’m suffering DV envy. Laugh it off the DV’s are done by cowards. Your fan, B.A.

            • Betsy

              Gosh…*preen*…I guess I’ve just always been lucky…*adjusts hair carefully*

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Hey Betsy. First off, I am not accusing you of being a sock.

              But I am accusing you of being a god damned idiot.

              19 of your 44 total posts starting 8 days ago have been today…after Tony told us to knock it off.
              So what is the point of what YOU are doing?
              Trying to be funny?
              Hoping you will make friends?
              Because it sure looks like you are trying to make some kind of point??????

              I can tell you as an old timer here……..your actions today have been all the introduction I need from you.

              Hope your hairdo stays in place.

            • Rita Gregory

              🙂

            • DeElizabethan

              I Love your eyes!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Bury will not be silenced! xo

            • Ardent

              Never.

            • Betsy

              Tony told us to stop posting??

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Spare me the Polyanna schtick.

            • Betsy

              Will do, Edie. Stay away from those drugs. They might kill you.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Careful now, your true colors are shining right through.

            • Betsy

              From Tony’s recent post: “stop attacking other people “. From your post to me: “But I am accusing you of being a god damned idiot.19 of your 44 total posts starting 8 days ago have been today…after Tony told us to knock it off.
              So what is the point of what YOU are doing?
              Trying to be funny?
              Hoping you will make friends?”

              Oh, wait! I get it! YOU’RE the sock!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              heh heh

            • Betsy

              Good one, Edie! I almost fell for it! You da Man!

            • Betsy

              From Tony’s recent post: “stop attacking other people “. From your post to me: “But I am accusing you of being a god damned idiot.19 of your 44 total posts starting 8 days ago have been today…after Tony told us to knock it off.
              So what is the point of what YOU are doing?
              Trying to be funny?
              Hoping you will make friends?”

              Oh, wait! I get it! YOU’RE the sock!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Yes.

            • The Dakini

              I adore you. Always have. Always will.
              With love, your secret troll.
              Dakini
              😉

      • Ardent

        Hi Woodrose. I’m a him, and they won’t run me out. I had the truth on my side, Tony saw it, and so let’s move on. Thanks. It was a terrible day – let’s leave it in the past, and hope certain people learned something. Recommended reading: Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery”.

    • OrangySky

      Well said. Let’s keep to the topic of Tony’s incisive blog posts, people. Personally I’m sure there are many lurking trolls under the bridges here, but does it really matter? Does what any “troll” or “sock” writes here change the truth of the reporting? Does any “troll” or “sock” have the power to stem the bleeding of the cult’s mortal wounds?

      Nope. So, use the ignore tech. It is powerful. I’ve learned my lessons there. I would also caution new people to the site not to give out any personal information to commenters who ask for it, if you want to remain anonymous. In addition, don’t give money to ANYTHING or ANYONE that isn’t vetted as a legitimate cause, event, etc. (such as helping the Headley’s with their legal bills, Flag Down, the TomKat project, etc.)

      Stay safe – but stay on topic!

      • Ardent

        Well said OrangySky. That puts it all very neatly. What is the point of a sudden ‘pile-on’, particularly if it is unwarranted? It wastes space, time and people’s energy and emotions. The POINT here is the cult of Scientology. We should be watching that, not each other like a bunch of cartoon spies.

      • kmadelyn

        While I loved the term “socks,” discussion of it was creating a creepy, melodramatic non-Bunkeresque atmosphere of paranoia & “Exposure” that’s started to feel uncomfortably close to that encouraged by “I’m NOT insane!”s management style & LRH’s Scriptures.

        Guys, there are tons of never-ins, Ins, & plain old shy lurkers who prefer to read more than comment on sites. Love what Ardent says below–brings to mind the old Mad Magazine’s “Spy vs Spy” cartoons–but most of the Bunker commenters seem too thoughtful & cool to waste time on such stuff. Heck; I’m usually forced to be a silent “Guest” (which means I couldn’t waste time on down-votes even if I wanted to) due to some infuriating bug in Disqus. & Disqus is the lame comment software offering Downvote options.

    • MaxSpaceman

      One thing that would be super uber ultra helpful would be a F A Q menu selection added to your main menu. There could be posted some few pointers that would help ‘newbies’ who come on your Website, who don’t know squat. And step deep in it. For instance, I’ve been using the Net since 1991 @ 300 baud. But I had no idea what a ‘sock puppet’ meant. I had no idea what ‘trolling’ was. I simply had no expereince in those 2 decades in regards to those things. A FAQ with just a little info. would’ve helped hugely, added to your menu:

      Home
      About
      Blogging Dianetics
      Up the Bridge
      Scientology Mythbusting
      Narconon
      Leah Remini

      • Tony Ortega

        I’ve got some basic info at the “About” page, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to take the time to explain what a friggin troll or a sock is. Come on.

        • MaxSpaceman

          okay. I meant the ‘rules of decorum’ more than the definitions; I didn’t have any examples for that. Like this post to Espiando and Valerie. Like that. But I hear you.

          • Robert Eckert

            Tony doesn’t set any rules of decorum. Some of us take it upon ourselves to act as self-appointed cops, but Tony stays out of that except for very rare usages of the banhammer and occasional warnings like today’s, this time against taking the self-appointed cop role too seriously.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Right. But the self-appointed fuck up over and over, and then moreover again, as they’re self-appointed; even while doing some good things. That is why Tony O had to write the note to Val and Espi. So, some FAQs about ‘how to’ would be very helpful.

            • Imelda Marcos

              “How to” is more or less what a lot of people here are saying, stay on topic and don’t be rude. Things will fall out the way they should. I’m a ‘never-in’ who came here for information last year, and I find the rude troll fights and the off-topic stuff takes up a lot of brain power to motor through with the “page down” button.

            • Ardent

              I agree.

          • Imelda Marcos

            You know, at the top left of the page, you can search the terms you just listed, and lots of information comes up about how they were covered in the past. 😉

            • MaxSpaceman

              Thanks, IM. But I really was trying to get some FAQs about ‘operations’ – how to operate smoothly in the Bunker. Things to avoid, like: If a person comes on knowing nothing of Bunkerdom, and has the viewpoint of “all religions are bad and yada yada yada”, that person is an instant OSA’bot. All because they don’t know that it’s an instant ‘tell’ mentioning the all religions alike statement. There are a bunch of those kind of things, that with a FAQ, people could just respond with a click-link to that FAQ, rather than launching into an OSA-troll smackdown.

              That happens way too much here, imo, which is why I was lobbying the Proprietor for a FAQ page with some tips like that. That’s all. (And weren’t you saying you were thinking of changing your handle, cuz Imelda’s image remains pretty poor? I would do it soon, if you still want to: let me share my change, which might help. My handle was ‘Asthmatic Dwarf’ for a long time; then I got so sick of it, I felt I couldn’t “be me” and I just had to change it. I was so happy I did. Anyway … :->)

            • Barbara Angel

              Its all just one big brain fart. All groups go through the process called; “forming, storming and norming”. The dust will settle soon, so don’t stress. Kind regards to all B.A.

            • Zer0

              Surprisingly, this is one of the few places on the intertubes that doesn’t get the “all religions are bad and yada yada yada” line that often.

          • Ardent

            I have always thought that any in group of likeminded persons online, especially on a site like this, which is really rather personal and quite involved in personal issues like disconnection, leaving the cult, etc., decorum and kindness would be a given. I am quite naïve, I guess. I agree with Max about a Rule of Decorum, but Tony has so much on his shoulders, a whole list of do’s & dont’s and definitions is probably going a bit far (no disrespect). I’m 53, and only came to the internet in 2001, and only started interacting, via HuffPo, in about, oh, 2005? So some terms are confusing. I certainly know what a ‘sock puppet’ is now! And a troll, too for that matter. I have no idea how we would go about educating new posters about ‘the rules’. And of course, there MUST be some cult goons fooling around here, anyway – I’d be shocked if there were not. It is a puzzler.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Specific to your issue, Ardent – I was surprised when I came on and saw you at issue as a possible 26 ( c*tfish, tr*ll, osabot ) as I had always liked your posts. And your unfocused picture of Columbo, I liked that. And Baby had asked you about it once a while back. And you seemed, well, a Bunkeroo just like all the Bunkeroos. So — it was ultra surprising for me to see you at issue for being a 26. I didn’t believe it. And then I read a bunch of that day’s posts of yours – that day (or right around then) you changed your Avi to a clear pic of the detective, as I wanted to see what the problem was.

              When I started, I was certain the Bunker Squad (the troll busters and protectors of Bunkeroos ((they are truly well-intentioned I’m certain)) who are as they say, self-appointed) were wrong about Ardent. Yet there was a lot of ‘certainty’ expressed, by some people who have been right about 26’ers before. Still, I couldn’t see it yet.

              But then, I read a couple of posts which seemed different; a style of wording and layout (paragraph breaks, etc.) that I had not noticed from you before. And then I read a rather long post from you, which looked to my eyes very much like the long posts that the 26’er in December used to leave. And I was like, wtf ? And I kept reading and became more uncertain.

              At that point, you mentioned in the comments about the change of your Avi to a newer, clearer picture of Columbo. I then had this thought: Wow! The 26’er may have hijacked the handle ‘Ardent’ and changed the Avi, and is posting as Ardent but is really what the Bunker Squad was charging Ardent of being. I really did; I want to be totally honest with you, in telling this story.

              It was then, I noticed you were becoming increasingly concerned; and hurt, and very upset that you could not persuade Bunker Squad that you were in fact a legit Bunkeroo. You said you would take it to Tony, as you believed that is the only way to get the Bunker Squad off your back and stop with the accusations. I thought that was an idea whose time had come. You had to. And the Bunker Squad would need that level of evidence to cease from being against you.

              And then– I saw the post to Val and Espi. To stop. You had contacted Tony, he had seen what he needed to in order to make a note to them and to The Underground Bunker commenting community. When he did that, it was clear you are the Ardent I always has thought you were: a valued commenter, a valued Bunkeroo, with a unique ‘thing’ like Columbo had, in your ‘view’, or your ‘take’ on things.

              I am so glad it worked out well. And that you are feeling okay. And it’s alright with you and those who misunderstood who you ardently are, Ardent !

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Seems we have had a rather jolly new crew show up for this discussion, and all so oddly alike in their bewilderment of what constitutes a sock, their adoration of Tony Ortega, and a willingness to immediately congratulate/console each other. It’s… odd.

          • Zer0

            It’s easy to forget that the commenters here span several generations, and not everyone pays Reddit in Bitcoin. I see no reason why someone who wasn’t weaned on the intertubes would a priori know about sock puppets.

    • Caught In the Snow

      Thank you so much, Tony, for your admonition. I went back and read what was going on last night, and I feel very badly for the board contributor who was suddenly under attack.
      As a newbie never in, I am always afraid of being mistaken for a sock or worse. So much so, that in a fit of paranoia about board witch hunts after the 26 event, and even potential Co$ troll shenanigans against members, I contacted a regular board poster who lives in my area sharing some of my personal background info. I felt compelled at the time to prophylactically legitimize myself for what I am–just an over-the-hill, run-of-the-mill, interested citizen.
      I’m here to get educated about the cult, and to learn how to help spread the message about its shocking criminality. I don’t post much because, frankly, this poster is not terribly witty or wise!
      Like so many of you, I am now addicted to the Bunker as the premier authority on Co$ current events, and as a source of great amusement. There are so many brilliant folks to ‘meet’, ideas to share, and fun to be had in the Bunker– I say, just flat out ignore those few who are intentionally disruptive, of whatever stripe.
      Thanks again, Tony, for your all of your efforts, and oh boy! , what a tale your (instantly bestselling) book shall eventually tell!!

      • Betsy

        You said it all for me, snowkitty! I’m blown away by the interesting stuff posted by Tony and other serious followers of the Scientology story. Watching this unfold is better than reading murder mysteries…but also scarier and more shocking. Maybe the trolls are actually helpful people who are trying to make sure that we don’t get so addicted that we fail to clean our felines’ litterboxes?

        • MaxSpaceman

          Wow! That’s it! Thank you, Betsy– I’ve been trying to coalesce the compelling thing about the Bunker that attracts me and all the Bunkeroos, and you got it. Finally, I’ll have a way of expressing the fascination; not ‘the cause’, but the fascination. I love it:

          “Watching this unfold (in the Underground Bunker) is better than reading murder mysteries, but also scarier and more shocking.” – That is so true. It’s scarier because there are real lives of real people, who’ve suffered horrifically, and still do, at the hands of all involved in The Cult of $cientology Inc.

          • Betsy

            Yes! Yes! And I think that — at least in my case — there’s the feeling that I am helpless to do much in so many terrible situations in the world, but because brave journalists like Tony and Lawrence Wright and incredible survivors like Tori and so many others have created a real movement, I can actually help it gain power to get justice and perhaps rid the world of a criminal activity. This is a great privilege, I think.

            • MaxSpaceman

              I am with you shoulder-to-shoulder Betsy ~

          • Ardent

            Exactly Max. Betsy, you hit the nail on the head. The terrible fact that it is REAL is what makes it both so awful to see and so delightful to watch fall to pieces.

            • MaxSpaceman

              And it’s so so compelling. And Tony O presents such a great platform and 7 day-per-week action. And a community to interact with.

              Dang, no wonder Bunkeroos mention ‘caek,’ and ‘popcorn,’ and things to bring to the Bunker !!

        • Caught In the Snow

          There would be hell to pay around here if my addiction got that bad! But I’m close….

          • Betsy

            Me too…on that busy busy trial day it took an actual showing of claws and an “oops, I missed the box” event to detach me from the news.

            • Caught In the Snow

              Lol. My boys run things around here, too!

        • Barbara Angel

          Oh look Betsy, I’m envious you got ‘three’ down votes and as they are the New ‘Must Haves’ I’ll just have to sit here and sigh……. I hardly get any down votes these days and I’m not happy. lol

          • Betsy

            Don’t feel bad! I just gave you another one! No…turn that frown upside-down!

            • Barbara Angel

              Thanks Betsy, otherwise I may have to find a ‘psychiatrist’ and sob over not receiving enough DV’s.
              Edit: I’ll tell the psych that I’m not suffering large penis envy, just lack of recognition by envying others who get more DV’s. Yep, the truth is now out…. I’ve got lack of DV Envy. Hahahahaha and I also laugh at my own jokes.

      • Ardent

        Appreciate your sympathy Caught in the Snow. It was shocking, and hurtful. But let’s put it aside. The Bunker is generally a fun place to chat and learn about the cult and it’s nefarious doings. And, it seems these days David Cabbage (he’s the Fearless Leader of Scamatology) is closer and closer to being shown up in court for the criminal he is.
        I’m also a ‘never in’ and after lurking for a time, decided this was the place to be (online). Please, don’t let yesterday’s bizarre fit put you off. Tony is a good host, and will listen and deal with any issue fairly.

    • Miss Tia

      Will happily stick to the subject! All this stuff makes my head hurt and confuses the heck out of me. I feel like I need charts, graphs, CLAY DEMOS 😉 and I’d still be confused. o_O

      Ignore tech shields ON! Let’s all have a toast and a group hug!! TO THE BUNKER!!!

      • Ardent

        I heartily endose that, Miss Tia!

        • Miss Tia

          Cheers!

    • WhamBham

      Yes please. It was starting to feel like “The Real Housewives of Bunker County” in here….

    • Gerard Plourde

      Agreed. An additional thing to remember is the “Andreas Effect”. Tory Christman was brought out of the cult when she was treated humanely by Andreas. The best way to get people out of the cult is to show them that the line they’ve been fed about SP’s is more Hubbard/DM disinformation. If we stay on topic and remain civil to each other (including lurkers) the long-term effect can only be positive.

      • StatusLevelUp

        Exactly. From the start, there was a tradition of civility in the Bunker.

      • Great White Clam

        Excellent point.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        The proper reaction to a bad argument is a good argument.

      • Toni m

        I like the “Andreas Effect”

    • Great White Clam

      I am astonished at the sheer quantity of screen real estate taken up by sockpuppetry arguments and associated drama. But all things considered, a weekend is the best time for such a festival.

      My opinion is if we stay on target (CULT), leave personal drama on a dedicated social network and NOT on this or any other investigative reportage news site, OSA would be eating beans and rice for months, OR WORSE FOR LONGER ON THE RPF and I would be all ROFLMAO. Plus that would leave more time for J&D!

      Srsly.

      • Robert Eckert

        The emotional damage done by those not-so-dearly-departeds who spent a long time pretending to friendship only to turn on us in the most vicious ways is something we don’t want to go through again.

        • Great White Clam

          The danger lies of course in emotionally en-armoring to protect against further similar exploitation and turning into a cruel and heartless person. IMHO, it’s better to walk out into the real world and help a homeless person or a family in need than invest in possible scam-artists’ sob stories on internet. But that’s just what I think.

        • SandiCorrena

          We’re all pretty companionable, empathetic, and compassionate (why else would we care about the evilness of CO$ to such an extent) here in the bunker and by association with each other we become pretty PROTECTIVE of each other as well because the friendship we offer and feel is real -what you just said is so perfect.

    • StatusLevelUp

      I looked back at yesterday’s comments, and some new poster named Davrosdeth made a few awesome shoops as his “introduction” to the Bunker…. and got 3 downvotes! That’s awful.

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      thank you so much for making this point, mr. ortega. i was mercilessly attacked, continually labelled a troll and belittled by mr. robert eckert because he took it upon himself to be the judge, jury and executioner for this site in his unwarranted belief that i was osa. all this simply because i disagreed him with him on previous posts. as i tried to tell mt. eckert, people have different opinions. he refused to listen to anything and was an unruly troll in trying to “out me” as a scientology troll…even after i told him to bring me before you for final judgment on banning because i was sick of his nasty comments. as my grandparents said to me, “judge not lest ye be judged.” thank you so much once again for making this point, mr. ortega. it needed to be said, and said with force. cheers!

      • Robert Eckert

        That is a dishonest misrepresentation of how the conversation went. Your name is an incitement to violence and you come on the board to distract the discussion off on to the kinds of political tangents that generate heat rather than light. You indicated that you had an alternate ID (DMSCOHB) which actually had relevance to this board, as the ID you use instead does not, and refused to give any answer to why you insist on using this one.

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          whatever, mr. eckert. all of our messages are available for those who want to seek the truth. you were an absolute jerk to me and you know it. cheers!

          • Robert Eckert

            Indeed, all the messages are available, and anyone can judge who was the absolute jerk.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              just stop it, mr eckert. you have apparently rubbed more than one bunkerite the wrong way. just stop it. you have no right whatsoever. cheers!

            • Mooser

              I eschew altercations like this. Ruminative and taciturn, that’s the way to be.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              “I eschew altercations like this. Ruminative and taciturn, that’s the way to be.”

              … said Calvin to Hobbes 🙂

            • Mooser

              Well, it’s not a remarkable conclusion, by any means, it doesn’t surprise me that Calvin also embraces it. Ruminativeness and taciturnity have a lot of fans.
              I wish you could see how taciturn I am being right now. It’s quite impressive.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              No need to wish it. I very plainly see your taciturnity all over this thread 😉

            • Ardent

              Ha ha…Mooser, I like your style. I wish I didn’t have such thin skin! (Also liked the hidden double meaning – is not a moose a ruminant?)

      • Barbara Angel

        Yep Ditto, and he’s still at it. We are not allowed to ‘disagree’ with Judge Eckert. As you said: he’s self appointed judge, jury and executioner. Sad huh?

        • Robert Eckert

          I have no executioner power, that is up to Tony. You can disagree with me as often as you like. I will disagree back, as is also my right.

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            no, mr. eckert. you do not just disagree. you take things exponentially further. you engage in ad hominem attacks and tell people to go away. you need to stop. and i am not the only one who thinks so. cheers!

            • Mooser

              I really got to admit, a monicker like “deathtoallpoliticians” just screams “no ad hominens” to me, don’t you think?.
              Oh, By the way Mr. “deathtoallpoliticians” how far you plan to go with the extermination of politicians? I mean, right down to dog-catchers, the local traffic judges? Or do you plan to start at the top, and work down?

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              are you serious, mooser? really? you just can’t be. i mean you really think so? you just can’t. no one would really believe so…i would like to think, anyway. hence, really, mooser? really? your comment makes me smile and shake my head at the same time. cheers!

            • Robert Eckert

              “i am not the only one” Indeed, I am disliked by two people. How ever shall I live down the infamy?

          • Ardent

            Excuse me, but you were nasty. I said I’d not carry a grudge, so that’s all I’ll say. Let’s just keep on point here and go after the actual problem: the cult.

            • Robert Eckert

              I am sorry if you thought I was being nasty. I was asking for clarifications of your story. Since Tony is satisfied by your bona fides so am I, so let it lie.

            • Ardent

              OK, Robert. Shall we officially bury the hatchet? I’d be very happy to do so, and have all that unpleasantness recede at Warp Factor 9. Just to you: I really am who I am, and I have no connection to the cult at all. I am an individual expressing my thoughts, and I am a happy Bunkeroo. Cheers.

            • Robert Eckert
      • Ardent

        I can relate! God what a terrible day I had yesterday.

        • Ardent

          Gotta love that down-vote.

    • Marc Headley

      I am no expert, but I am pretty sure these are socks…

      • Rita Gregory

        Undeniable proof is the problem. Educated and well researched (in some cases) guesses have been made but, ultimately they are still a guess.

        • Midwest Mom

          I think that they stick out like sore thumbs.

          • Rita Gregory

            Me too but proof would solve the problem.

            • Midwest Mom

              Stevie Wonder could identify them.

            • Rita Gregory

              😀

          • Robert Eckert

            Or sore toes?

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Are you sure you’re not an expert? You identified those socks with the skill of a professional.

      • Rita Gregory

        I think they are mittens with the thumbs hidden! 😉

      • Guest

        Those would make great puppets

      • Robert Eckert

        If you found them under a bridge, they might be troll socks.

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Ah! The rare Matched Socks sighting. Pics like that are few and far between.

      • Ardent

        Now those ARE socks!

      • scottishinlondon

        They look like black-hearted socks too

    • CobGatYour$$

      What’s a sock?

    • Toni m

      With all my respect to the ones who post here.. I work full time like many of you do and I want to read your comments and learn from them. My interest is that this cult stop hurting so many people and see justice for the ones that are not here anymore. I have cried and laughed with you, I admire much of the “art” posted here, the knowledge and kindness that you have to share. Please don’t lose your time in things that have no value. Let Mr Ortega do the fixing when he seems needed.
      Now that’s all I have to say. I still have so much to catch up………Pizza…. anyone?

    • MTM

      Hi Tony,
      This is my first time posting here. I have been reading your blog daily for the past year…and as a “never in” have found myself disturbed by the abuses of the COS. I have contributed money to the Bunkers when they needed assistance to pay their legal settlement and to your website to support your travels to Texas in the past. I have noticed an increased level of anger towards those are reading but are not logged into this web site and on esmb…Folks get a grip. There are lots of good people in America who believe in moderation in everything and quiet support to those in need. We don’t like drawing attention to ourselves, nor do we need your acknowledgement. But for heaven’s sakes…please stop assuming we are evil. One of the reasons that the tide is turning against the COS is that so many people are reading the information on these sites, and watching the videos on youtube. I have watched every video that Magoo44 has ever posted, and listened to Jason Beghe’s video at least 25 times, all the way through, while grading math assignments. Tony, thank you for all that you have done to educate all of us on this “hate filled” American organization.

      • noseinabk

        Welcome to the winter of our discontent. If you have followed for some time you will have learned that the bunker, wwp, and esmb are perfect examples of people who have a common goal but still disagree. Sometimes the attitudes of one forum overlap those of another and sometimes they clash. We are fortunate enough to have the input of such a huge variety of people that it is understandable that conflict will ensue.

      • DeElizabethan

        Welcome MTM. The only one who wins when the bickering begins and ends in broken friendships is the cherch. That’s one way they manipulate, to turn us against each other and attention away from them. Thank you for posting and look forward to your comments.

    • Ardent

      Thank you Tony. I have received your emails, and I appreciate what you have done. Now I feel I might be able to join in again with my fellow Bunkerites and enjoy watching the cult go down in flames (and have some fun while doing so). Many, many thanks.

    • richelieu jr

      There is nothing OSA would loveùore than to see us tearing each other apart over nothing.

      Let’s not do their work for them, eh? With 1500+ comment,s it’ shard enough to find out what’s going on without peopel seeing socks inside every shoe (hey, wait a minute!– that didn’t even make any sense!)

    • The Dakini

      Whoa. I’ve missed alot during my sabattical. Sorry to hear this is going on Tony.

  • DamOTclese2

    Would you say that the crime syndicate in Belgium “is toast?” 🙂 I sure hope so. Hope they extradite David Miscavige.

    Mister Miscavage, har du någonsin varit buggered offentligt?

    No? Well here’s hoping.

    • Mark

      Swedish?

      “Meneer Miscavige, heb je ooit gesodomiseerd zijn in het openbaar?”
      “Monsieur Miscavige, avez-vous jamais été foutu en public?”

      (Can’t vouch for the first one, as Google Translate only has Dutch, not Flemish.)

      • richelieu jr

        Dutch and Flemish are basicallyt he same language…

        The French, I am sorry to say, I don’t really understand (i understand all the words, but not what you mean… Like, ‘Mr Miscavige have you ever been ‘screwed’ in public? or ‘destroyed’? Maybe I ma just tired (up for 5O hours and can’t get to sleep.

        Ever get so tired you look at simple words and they look like they are in a different language? OR are just nonsense code? We have a word in France, ‘Charabia’ for just made-up nonsense sounds…
        Welcome to my world. I try and read a book and it is about as understandable as ‘Dianetics’!…

      • richelieu jr

        Dutch and Flemish are basicallyt he same language…

        The French, I am sorry to say, I don’t really understand (i understand all the words, but not what you mean… Like, ‘Mr Miscavige have you ever been ‘screwed’ in public? or ‘destroyed’? Maybe I ma just tired (up for 5O hours and can’t get to sleep.

        Ever get so tired you look at simple words and they look like they are in a different language? OR are just nonsense code? We have a word in France, ‘Charabia’ for just made-up nonsense sounds…
        Welcome to my world. I try and read a book and it is about as understandable as ‘Dianetics’!…

    • Imelda Marcos

      Oh, THANK YOU. There’s a place right around the corner from me that sells these things, now I have to go get one.

      • DamOTclese2

        Amusing, huh? I’m going to have crescent rolls here shortly. 🙂 Belgium? France? Is there a difference? (I’m a dimwitted American, derp!) 🙂

        • Imelda Marcos

          I was born in France, but unfortunately, I’m now an equally dim-witted Canadian when it comes to Belgian politics or culture. All I know is, great chocolate. And my brother’s mother-in-law is Belgian, and she used the cutest baby-talk on my nephew when he was tiny.

          • DamOTclese2

            LOL! Yeah, I went through Belgium once on my way to somewhere, darned if I can recall where I was heading… Reykjavík? Hell, habanero chilies have fried my brain. Yes, I liked their language. 🙂

            When I read the word “Belgium” I can’t help but but think of the Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:

            Belgium is the rudest word in the Universe, yet by a strange coincidence, also the name of a country on Earth. In the Secondary Phase, it is stated as “completely banned in all parts of the Galaxy, except in one part, where they don’t know what it means, and in serious screenplays.”

            It is used as a single-word expletive by Zaphod Beeblebrox and Ford Prefect in the film.

            It was used in a presidential declaration that declared the Belcerebons of Kakrafoon Kappa unhoopy.[1]

          • Mooser

            Don’t forget about Hercule Poirot, too! The little grey cells, yes?

          • Ardent

            And Tintin! He’s Belgian.

    • OK, but why the question in Swedish? The chef connection?!?

      • Gerard Plourde

        I guess that he’d have to be addressed in French and Dutch since Belgium has both of those as official languages.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      How did we get from Dutch to nynorsk?

      • Robert Eckert

        Belgium couldn’t decide whether they wanted to speak Flemish or Walloon, so they compromised.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          whups…actually that’s Swedish. Why lapse into Swedish when enquiring about DM’s sexual history? Then again why not?

    • richelieu jr

      ThE Belgian Justice system is f’ing Waffle!

      (désolé mes amis belges.. je n’avais pas de choix! noblesse oblige… ;-))

    • richelieu jr

      I like Belgium very much, but for French persons they are the people we tell jokes about.. Like people in Colorado did about Texans and Polish people when I was a kid there…

    • richelieu jr

      I like Belgium very much, but for French persons they are the people we tell jokes about.. Like people in Colorado did about Texans and Polish people when I was a kid there…

  • DamOTclese2

    “..and if so, who should be in the dock.”

    Oh! Oh! I know, I know! Teacher pick me! I know!

  • jmh

    I hope Belgium follows the French line of thinking and sticks it to ’em. Scilons being booted out of yet another European country would be absolutely glorious. I tend to favor European sensibility and this is one of the many reasons why. I hope the U.S. has the sense to follow suit, but something tells me it will be many years before that happens unless Davy boy really slips up in these current court cases. Here’s to hoping for it anyway!

    • InterestedinCrazy
      • jmh

        Eh… Depends on the viewpoint. They may be recognized as having non-profit status, but in a lot of those countries they are not recognized as a religion as they are here in the U.S.

  • richelieu jr

    Ha! Couldn’t happen to a niçer guy!

    And I love that someone posted the link. You just know curiousity is going to get the better of some poor Scilon and they are going to get a peek at how the world sees them…

    On géothermie hand, Jamie’s pièce is so dramatic and so specific to him, that it is probably pretty easy for them to dismiss… Still, LRHs family isn’t on board, Micavige’s is leaving (when they aren’t in jail…) At some point one click leads to another and they might end up here…

    I just bought Jamie’s record (you can pay however much,you like, or nothing) and it is really great. I highly recommend it, and I am in no way affiliated with it… He is far more than the great grandson of The Great Goiter, and he has more than one poetic rant up his sleeve. He is one of the only performance artists I don’t want to punch in the face for public scab-picking, so that’s really saying something.

    • vistaril_LOL

      posting the link was such a footbullet…even if they all delete it some time one of them is gonna get curious….foot bullet away!

  • Observer

    ..

    • SandiCorrena

      Love the way you do the things you do!

      • Dean Fox

        “about as practical and simple as repairing a shoe lace” – interesting analogy, I just buy a new shoe lace if one snaps, can’t imaging how one would weave a snapped shoe lace back together, I should imagine the process to be frustrating and time consuming with disappointing and probably unworkable results…. oh wait I see what he did there… 😀

    • OrangySky

      Don’t forget his famous comments about the path to wealthy by starting a religion:

      http://www.bible.ca/scientology-1million-start-a-religion.htm

      • Observer

        I didn’t use the infamous “if you want to get rich start a religion” quote because Hubbard didn’t write it down anywhere. I have no doubt that he said it, and said it more than once, but I’m sticking with things that Hubbard wrote, with references, so they can’t be dismissed as being fabricated by SPs.

  • DamOTclese2

    I went and “liked” Upworthy and posted a Defrocked, Bitter Apostate comment.

    • OT8squared

      Karric Clato-Day included the actual link. How great would it be if some scilon watches the video b/c of her link and starts to have doubts about dear founder.

      • DamOTclese2

        That’s just it, I bet a number of customers did just that. All we get to see are the dimwits who can’t think for themselves posting their unthinking replies, “Sure thing, master!” We don’t get to see who clicked on the link and got confirmation once again that Hubbard was a pathologically insane liar. 🙂

      • Suzy

        I think he did it on purpose, to not-so-secretly secretly spread entheta. Maybe it’s a cry for help. (edited for poor spelling)

      • Tone

        I wondered about that too. I was an ex long before the advent of online social media and much of this makes no sense to me. Back in the 80’s I was out-ethics for just asking questions about an item in the Toronto Star that detailed some of the legal action the Toronto org was involved with. Now there are people openly spreading entheta on Facebook.

        Of course no good clam would ever look, but we all did, we all looked. That’s how many of us woke up, because despite the conditioning, we still looked.

        • Anonymous

          The Internet truly is Scientology’s Vietnam.

    • AutOmatic

      I never have liked upworthy…until now…I fb liked it just because of this XD

      • DamOTclese2

        Yeah, I also have never clicked on an Upworthy link, now I must! I must! 🙂

      • richelieu jr

        Occasionally they have interesting things (tow it, Jamie) but they always try and proselytize and I find it really heavy-handed and unpleasant. Tony’s link is pretty interesting, from a journo perspective…

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      My upvote for electing to use the term “a sad” rather than the overused “butthurt.”

      • DamOTclese2

        LOL, well I was attempting to stay classy as always. 🙂

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Now THAT’S funny stuff there!

  • valshifter

    “Theta clearing is about as practical and simple as repairing a shoe lace”
    Wow that is such a spiritual statement, am enlightened already!

  • Imelda Marcos

    “The case got bogged down in procedural wrangling”. Wait, I’m having a déjà vu.

  • Dean Fox

    Also liked Upworthy.

  • Artoo45

    Oh, Discus, what fresh hell is this? Now all the up votes appear as “guest.”

  • Anonymous3000

    Anyone having details about what happen at the oily table? What oil is used? How much oil? Where does it go?

    • Artoo45

      It better go into a grease trap and to landfill. Never. Put. Oil. Down. The. Drain.

      • Anonymous3000

        Does it go on the body?

        • Mooser

          Only where there are zerk fittings.

      • Mooser

        I hope it doesn’t require that synthetic stuff. It’s very expensive. Can the oil be re-cycled after use?

        • Artoo45

          Ew. There’s be BTs in it.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        If the oil doesn’t go down the drain, how will Scientology ever find it?

        • Artoo45

          Bam!

    • vistaril_LOL

      Given Slappy’s obsession with fingers up the butt and buggery, some it’s going inside I’d say…

      • Tone

        What WHAT WHAT???

        • vistaril_LOL

          I read he took particular joy in reading the sexual stuff in PC files….one well known ex had something about finger up the butt, which is fine if that floats your boat. Dwarfenfuehrer has more issues than the entire back catalogue of Vanity Fair.

          • Tone

            The more I learn about the real Ron Hubbard, the less I think I want to know!

    • DamOTclese2

      You can be sure that it’s cheap, off-brand oil, not a vintage Extra Virgin Olive like Grapelli. 🙂

      • Anonymous3000

        Sigh. I know as little as before posting this question.

  • The cool thing about the Belgium case(s) is that the police raided the main org and took away the evidence. And made copies. And stored the copies in separate locations (against “accidental” deletion, as had happened in Paris).

    While the delays are annoying, there may well be evidence of crimes with long statutes of limitations…

  • Straight Diet of Kerbango

    I got an email this morning from Indiegogo, saying that funding for Flag Down 2014 is “completed.” $3100 out of the $25000 goal. Anyone have further information on what the plan might be?

    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flag-down-2014-exposing-the-fraud-and-abuse-of-the-scientology-cult

    • Simi Valley
      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        Thanks. Somehow missed that. I wonder if someone would periodically re-post this page here to help with the funding effort. I’m not organized enough myself. Current Indiegogo fundraising page:

        http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flag-down-2014-exposing-the-fraud-and-abuse-of-the-scientology-cult–2

      • noseinabk
      • InClearwater

        I fervently hope that more people contribute to this. It’s a good cause. Think of it — it’s being done in the lair of the lion. I hope that people plan on attending. Good speaker lineup. Kudos to Amax and her compatriots. They picked a good time of year for people to come to Pinellas County. (Remember, you don’t have to stay in Clearwater. Tampa is nearby, and you can also go to — well, numerous different towns to stay: Clearwater Beach, Dunedin, St. Pete Beach, St. Petersburg, Safety Harbor, Tarpon Springs — I secretly think of it as Tampon Strings, but it’s a great place, Greek town — and on and on.) Just Google Map Clearwater and look at all the places that surround us. It’s a perfect time to be here. The Gulf water by that time is perfect for swimming.

        • OrangySky

          I’m disappointed they couldn’t raise more. I did my part and I’m dead broke right now.

  • DamOTclese2

    Belgium is the rudest word in the Universe, yet by a strange coincidence, also the name of a country on Earth. In the Secondary Phase, it is stated as “completely banned in all parts of the Galaxy, except in one part, where they don’t know what it means, and in serious screenplays.”

    Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Huh. You get the award for the Most Gratuitous Use of the Word Belgium in an Online Commentary.

      • DamOTclese2

        🙂 Tony did it first! I should have given him the credit. 🙂

    • AutOmatic

      ha! RIP Douglas Adams, one of my most favorite authors. Though if Belgium kicks the $cilons out of their country I will personally start a campaign that this statement be editied in future copies of the HHGTG to read:

      “Belgium is the most amazing word in the Universe. It is a widely held belief that if you say this to someone at any time while on a first date with them, that you will be guaranteed to be laid that same night, and also that the person will buy you Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters for the rest of your life. It is also the name of a country on the planet Earth that threw Captain Blackheart and his minions out of their country for good, and good riddance. It should be noted that Captain Blackheart and his $cientologysts have been completely banned in all parts of the Galaxy, except for the inside of Hotblack Desiato’s stuntship.”

      • DamOTclese2

        Taking the year off dead for tax purposes. 🙂

        “Belgium, man! Belgium!”

    • media_lush

      out of all the people who died way too young he’s close to the top of my list…. an unbelievable mind; let alone that he was the first person to have an Apple Mac in the UK his best friend (and roommate for awhile) was Stephen Fry…. if he was still here I’m sure he would be the god of geekdom, and philosphy, and lulz

  • vistaril_LOL

    Belgium knows insane megolomaniacs – right Mr Bigglesworth?

    • Jenstnick

      We need a shoop of Dr captain evil with his beloved Jelly using the above photo

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Scientologists are leaving Upworthy in droves? Or is that the sound of a mosquito hitting the windshield of a speeding big rig?

    • Miss Tia

      Not only are they told to disconnect from family & friends, they have to disconnect from web pages!

      • Simi Valley

        For years, they have been warned about what books not to read, what websites not to visit, etc.

        • Hubbub

          Didn’t I read that they have to report it if they have been exposed to information that puts the cult in a bad light? If true, is that just Sea Org or public members also?

          • Drat

            Everybody. I haven’t heard about a requirement to report, but it would come up in a metred ethics handling, as you are asked if you have visited “websites critical of the church or L. Ron hubbard”. Regardless of whether or not the meter actually works, you are programmed to spill the beens and most probably do.

            • Hubbub

              Brilliant control tactic, that’s for sure. Thanks, Drat.

      • Mooser

        It’s a wonder they have any children at all.

  • Missionary Kid

    Slightly OT: Sandy Banks’ Column in the L.A. Times about the damage that Lee Baca has done to the L.A. Sheriff’s Dept. Titled, “Problems at the Sheriff’s Department will outlive Baca’s tenure” http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-banks-baca-20140111,0,6188809.column#axzz2q7TXbTx2

    • Miss Tia

      Afternoon reading, thanks!

    • Sibs

      Tanaka sounds like a scary dude… and there’s a campaign ad for him on the side of the page.

    • Gerard Plourde

      Great read. Why does a metro area as large as LA insist on keeping the corrections department merged in with the Sheriff’s Department which maintains arrest and patrol duties. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

      • Robert Eckert

        It is.

      • Missionary Kid

        It worked fairly well before Baca. He screwed it up, but that’s just my opinion.

    • Toni m

      Was he in the same Department that investigated Shelly’s disappearance?

  • Simi Valley

    Creepy story and slightly O/T, but this punches up what happens to people who devote their lives to this vicious cult …

    I just learned of the death of an old scilon friend. She had been a field auditor (until the cherch killed them off) and her whole life was really wrapped around $cientology. She hadn’t spoken to me in a couple of years and didn’t even know that I had left the cult.

    Anyway, in 2013 she emailed me and said, “Oh, everything is so messed up with the church now, blah blah, how are you dealing with it?”

    I answered back that I had left Scientology and that if she believed in disconnection, she would not be able to comm with me further because I am an SP now.

    So she wrote back saying she believed that I had bailed from the cult because I couldn’t get justice, and she was disappointed that I didn’t just stay and stick it out until conditions somehow improved (total koolaid guzzler).

    So then I wrote back:

    “There’s actually more to it than that … but the first thing that has to happen is that Miscavige has to be gotten rid of and jailed for a long time for his crimes. Once I started reading the truth online, I realized a lot of things.
    Just one example: all the endless crush regging is not for any benevolent purpose as claimed. It all goes into a slush fund to finance Miscavige’s jetsetting lifestyle, cover up his crimes, etc.

    “All this is well documented online. All very entheta, yes, but what if the entheta is true?”

    I sent that to her in 2013. And I just learned that she died only 5 or 6 weeks after receiving that message. I know her health had been poor. I’m sure that since she knew me and trusted my opinion, that she did go ahead and read online. And I’m sure that the shock of it killed her.

    • Jo

      Simi, reading stuff online wont have killed anyone, her health wasn’t good. Your doing the right thing by telling truth.

    • Modesto

      A terrible story but you mustn’t even think about blaming yourself – a sad coincidence

      • Simi Valley

        I don’t think I killed her, but the shock of the reality of the situation killed her. I was simply the messenger, just like Debbie Cook was my messenger.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I am sure she felt grief for her religion. Nobody ever wants to find out that they believed in a lie. She needed to know.

          • Simi Valley

            Especially since she made her living as a Scientology field auditor (until the cherch deep-sixed that whole thing).

    • OrangySky

      I’m so sorry Simi. But you did the right thing. Remember, this was a woman who was hanging on by her fingernails – probably made ill by all the stress – hoping things would get better. Like being in an abusive marriage, for how many years are you going to hang on, hoping that THIS time, he’ll keep his promise not to hit you? Like an alcoholic, how for how many years are you going to keep drinking, hoping THIS time, it’ll be like back in the day when you actually were able to stop after the first one or two?

      She was in deep denial, and deep denial takes psychic energy. That’s energy that can’t go to fighting stress, or physical illness. It was the cult, and her clinging to her belief in it, that made her sick…and if it was indeed the “truth” that killed her, it would’ve been only the straw breaking the camel’s back. There’s a reason for that cliché – think about it. It’s obvious that a straw can’t break a camel’s back. It’s the pounds and pounds of baggage piled on BEFORE the straw that really did it.

      xo

    • sugarplumfairy

      Truth doesn’t kill, Simi.. It sets you free..
      Her illness had probably progressed and a huge disappointment could certainly have affected her will to live, but you gave her a great gift just in time.. I hope she opened it and appreciated it..

      • Captain Howdy

        Well said, SPF.

    • Anonymous

      That poor thing…

    • Sunny Sands

      She wanted to know the truth. If she really didn’t want to know the truth, she would have e-mailed you back after you 1st e-mail saying, “Thank you for letting me know you’re an SP. I’m disconnecting from you now”.

    • Imelda Marcos

      How awful, I’m so sorry.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      “Anyway, in 2013 she emailed me and said, “Oh, everything is so messed up
      with the church now, blah blah, how are you dealing with it?””

      Isn’t that a big no-no for a scilon to do?

      Here’s a thought: perhaps she knew she was very ill when she contacted you and sought you to tell her the truth she denied herself for a very long time. If this makes sense, it’s quite a testimony of her esteem for you.

    • Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

      Good for you for telling her the truth! I hope you’re right that she listened to you and started looking for herself for the truth.

  • N. Graham

    It looks like Scientology is getting what it deserves with all the ongoing and pending lawsuits. And it serves them right, with all the nuisance litigation they have initiated. As our friend Earl would say, Karma’s a bitch.

    • Barbara Angel

      Yep Karma kicks like a mule, but the internet is our new Best Friend. If it wasn’t for the internet Co$ could still be reeling in multiple new victims. Anyone with half a brain Google’s anything that takes their interest and if its Co$ that they Google then they flee before becoming entrapped. Poor old Encyclopaedia Britannica was great in its day, but the internet is FANTASTIC…. especially for unmasking giant Scams like Co$ and its ***Unethical*** criminal leader Kim-Jong-Un-Must Ravage, also known as ‘shut up and give me all your moneeeeeeeeeeeeee’ lol

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Interesting choice of Kim-Jong-Un. It immediately brings to mind another example where the internet can’t help those who don’t want to know. Exhibit A: Dennis Rodman’s misguided “goodwill” basketball game in North Korea is a fine example.

    • OT8squared

      DM was also hit by a car (or was it a train on Venus) and decided to make a list of everything bad he has done. It runs for quite a few pages. I’ve included a small excerpt below.

      #2609178452983 Repeatedly texted YS to my overworked underlings.
      #2609178452984 Made BFF Tom Cruise come to my IAS event rather than see his daughter.

    • media_lush

      don’t have the links off hand but he was a nasty bastard to his wife… quite a bit of abuse (including physical) and all that …. big scientology angle that they tried to keep under the Radar… not a nice person at all

  • Lady Squash

    Love how touchy the Church is about criticism. ‘[A guilty heart] doth protest too much, me thinks.’ William Shakespeareish

  • Tone

    OFF TOPIC
    ESMB is off line anyone know what’s going on?

    • noseinabk

      I Am getting a “this account is suspended” msg.

      • Tone

        Me too! There is a thread started at WWP but no info yet, just a bunch of people agreeing with each other.

        • Artoo45

          The general discussion message board at WWP is also down. Not the New Members Forum or Anonymous News sections, though. Hmmmmm . . .

          • Miss Tia

            I just checked, the General Discussion board is working on WWP. Maybe that was a momentary glitch?

    • Victoria Pandora

      nope, but it is getting worse.
      people are getting a goldrenrod account suspended notice now.

      • Tone

        I didn’t make the goldenrod connection, that’s kind of a LOL 😀

        • Victoria Pandora

          haha, yes the bright yellow banner “this account has been suspended.”

    • Victoria Pandora

      goldenrods for anyone who tries to log in.

    • Robert Eckert

      It happened yesterday too. We are not the only place Captain Blackheart sends his scurvy minions.

    • Great White Clam

      Yesterday they were mistaken for a wrestling site. Ethercat said it was handled but there may be some related issue happening today. Might be malicious, though..

  • Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

    I’m sorry Miss Mimi, but it’s not a religion, it’s a cult! I love Jamie DeWolf! He’s awesome! I’ve been following him on Facebook for a while now and I’m so glad he’s getting this exposure! Much deserved!

  • noname

    Mimi Pollack is a very wealthy, Clearwater, Scientologist. She’s also not a very nice person – very nasty herself.

  • Victoria Pandora

    ESMB getting hit HARD.
    where are our white hat counters?

    • Tone

      What’s a white hat counter?

      Any info on ESMB? At first I thought it was just me.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Generally speaking, a black hat hacker is malicious and a white hat hacker is benevolent. In security, a black hat looks for weaknesses to exploit and a white hat looks for weaknesses to fix.

        I believe what Victoria is suggesting is that the ESMB is under a DDoS attack to keep it offline and she’d like someone to help. Also, it is much easier to assemble a bot net than one might think. You don’t need to be an elite hacker.

        • Victoria Pandora

          Yep.

        • Miss Tia

          I’d never heard of a white hate counter before! Or a black hat one! The things ya learn! 🙂

          My site has had DDoS attacks by Russian yobs who get upset by my vintage ads community’s Gay Equality Day—started at the time Russia passed those draconian laws. It’s hard to really DDoS proof servers, but it can be done—but even though it’s not 100% safe from a DDoS attack if they launch a massive enough one. Livejournal—where I have my v. ads community often has DDoS attacks against the whole site–because it hosts a lot of blogs by political enemies of Putin. (It’s a huge blogging site in Russia and is now owned by Russians, but the USA has their own servers).

      • Victoria Pandora

        I didn’t want to mention anon, or the word hacker. So, my comment was not “clear” lol.
        Nah, it isn’t just you, for the moment I think it is everyone.

        • Gerard Plourde

          The site does appear to be offline.

  • Straight Diet of Kerbango

    Sorry OT: I never got the chance to comment on the IAS event videos from the other day, but I would like to make a few comments.

    – I was at the APA conference in SF last year. Unfortunately I missed the protest parade, but did observe SCN’s protest and exhibit efforts over several days. Contrary to Cap’n Punch’s claims, we are not shocked by the protesters’ presence or the Industry of Death exhibit. They are an expected and mildly interesting part of the whole conference experience. The reason that vast majority of the traffic (trickling) through the exhibit was psychiatrists, is because there isn’t much public foot traffic in the Moscone Center area. I love the uproarious audience laughter when Davey reports that psychiatrists went through the Industry of Death exhibit. As if we suddenly became disoriented and unknowingly found ourselves “confronted and shattered” by the exhibit. The audience reaction demonstrates an inability to understand that psychiatrists are usually interested in contrary opinions. Unlike cult members, we don’t have to hide ourselves from the challenges and shortcomings in our field or some of the horrible practices from the past. In fact, it is usually part of our training. A course I teach on the scientific foundations of psychiatry starts with reviews of landmark papers that exposed major deficiencies in the validity of psychiatric diagnoses. We are probably also the biggest consumers of polemical books about our field.

    – I admit I did breathe a sigh of relief when I didn’t see myself in their video footage.

    – There doesn’t seem to be any reason to believe that CCHR is responsible for any “wins” aside from trucking around their bat shit crazy exhibit. If they were somehow connected with any of these convictions of providers committing fraud, then I say, “excellent job.” We like when unethical providers go down. I remember when Dr. Michael Reinstein finally went down in Chicago. We were thrilled. The grandiosity of the claims that CCHR has any significant impact on psychiatry or Pharma is bizarre. I can’t imagine CCHR has ever been mentioned in a board room meeting by a pharmaceutical company, ever. Do they really think CCHR has had any influence over drug sales? How would they? And then the delusion that they are affecting the economics of the specialty of psychiatry. Hospitals are closing units because they lose money. Third party payers choose not to compensate well. Organ transplants, chemo infusion centers and interventional pain clinics are sexy and bring in multi-millions. Regardless, the closing of inpatient units has just shifted treatment to the outpatient setting (and unfortunately to prison). Governments have de-funded state hospitals and community mental health centers because they are easy targets for budget cuts. Unfortunately, people with chronic schizophrenia are usually not good political advocates. They have no money. Many need psychosocial rehabilitation to learn how to make eye contact, shake hands, and exchange pleasantries.

    – Most psychiatrists have only a vague idea of what Scientology is about and very, very few would know what CCHR is. I don’t know, maybe a couple of hundred in America. CCHR does not come up in our journals, throwaway rags, in the academic setting, in professional meetings, during conferences, or with hospital committees. I can’t imagine a scenario where I would need to have a discussion about them with anyone outside of this board. Even in politics, we have other issues to focus on.

    – Regarding Davey’s facial asymmetry and wt loss, there is simply not enough information to argue for the presence of a disorder. His crooked smile is present in the Ted Koppel interview. In that interview, and in the IAS video, I don’t see any other hallmark signs of facial nerve paralysis or facial weakness due to stroke. I imagine he now uses Botox and this would further cloud the picture. There are no abnormal body movements. His weight loss could be anything and there is nothing specifically pointing to illness. I see no temporal wasting to indicate cachexia. Cancer, COPD (pink puffer), or other chronic illness is possible, but this is likely just “stress diet” from anxiety or even intentional wt loss.

    • Tomato Thetan

      Thanks for the informative post. It’s interesting to get the perspective of someone who was at the conference and can counter DM’s skewed and deliberately misleading statements.

    • Missionary Kid

      In flying, there are numerous books, columns, and bulletins dedicated to reporting the wrong moves, judgement, and decisions that pilots make. Some are confessionals. The idea is to keep pilots flying safely by avoiding the pitfalls of others.

      It is good to hear that psychiatrists have similar approaches to problems within their community.

      One of the most damaging things that $cientology does, IMO, is to keep people away from any sort of mental health help, especially after they have damaged them further. The motto, “Do no harm” is nowhere in their lexicon.

    • OT8squared

      A good psychiatrist seeks out counter-opinions because new perspectives enhance knowledge. The body of knowledge in the field is always growing, it is empirical rather than revealatory like Scientology.

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        There are no easy answers in this field. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=177378

        • Priscilla

          easy answers aren’t much fun anyway!

        • OT8squared

          Good, easy answers are either wrong or incomplete. (Of course my response is an easy answer – oh no, paradox!)

          • Straight Diet of Kerbango

            Well I can’t definitively rule out that all suffering is due to dead space alien fragments.

            • Zer0

              Did you say Dead Space and alien fragments? There goes the rest of my evening:)

    • Mooser

      Another poster gave us a link to a paper on the births and diverging paths of Scientology (Dianetic, e-meter) and Psychiatry. Scientology, of course, stayed true to it’s “Source”, while Psychiatry, no matter what un-scientific origins it may have had, strove towards integrating itself with and being congruent with all scientific advances in the medical field, if you know what I mean.

    • MaxSpaceman

      S Diet of K, you are the bomb on $ciloonery re psychiatry, psychopharmacology and big Pharma.!! Super valuable post. :->)

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Here’s an idea.

      Miscavige is reputed to have been a bodybuilder. There is a certain point where most people’s joints just can’t take it anymore and they have to diminish their weight training or stop altogether. If they continue the same caloric consumption the muscle mass will diminish while the person’s weight stays about the same. The person will put on fat. Commonly phrased, the muscle turns to fat. What some athletes are able to do as they age is simply eat less, lose the muscle and not gain much fat. Davey is getting up there and I don’t care how OT he is. The best he can hope for is to get skinny.

    • OrangySky

      “I can’t imagine CCHR has ever been mentioned in a board room meeting by a pharmaceutical company, ever. ”

      I can imagine one such scenario, Korgo (waves!) – to take place in the near future:

      Big Pharma Board Charman: This super-attorney Cedillo. You say he’s successfully defended other pharmaceutical companie?

      Board Member #1: Oh yes. He’s defended Bayer corporation, Merck, Wyeth….

      Chairman: Hmmmm. Some of our biggest competitors. That’s good to know…we’re not looking good in this case and he’s going to have an uphill battle.

      Board Member #2: Cedillo can handle it. Hell, he just defended Scientology, for crying out loud!

      (Entire boardroom bursts into hysterical laughter. Laughter continues for a few minutes.)

      Chairman: What happened with Scientology?

      Board Member #2: Cedillo convincingly argued that harassing a woman who’d never even been in the religion in her home and work for a period of four years constituted religious freedom.

      Chairman: I like it. The guy’s got balls.

      Board Member #2: He lost the case of course, but come on. Consider the client.

      (More laughter.)

      Chairman: A guy who’d go all-in on a lost cause like that? My kind of attorney! He’s hired!

  • 0tessa

    We have an intelligent down-voter: he/she is not downvoting every comment.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Intelligent or purposeful? I’m spotting a trend but will keep that for myself. There’s enough paranoia as it is.

      • Zer0

        yeah, there’s a trend

    • Mooser

      “We have an intelligent down-voter: he/she is not downvoting every comment.”

      And that will efface, while effecting, their sinister purposes? Because they don’t down-vote every comment, those down-votes will have more weight? Be taken more seriously?
      So when I get to the Pearly Gates, and St. Peter opens the Book of Life, I’ll have to answer for my sins (which are many) and the down-votes charged to me?

  • MaxSpaceman

    1972. Paulette Cooper. “I immediately moved to a doorman building. Not long after, some 300 of my neighbors were sent an anonymous smear letter about me. Among other things, the letter outrageously described me as a part-time prostitute and said that I had once sexually molested a 2- year old baby girl.”

    Forty years later, The Cult of $cientology Inc. led by Captain David Miscavige, Sea Organization, harrassed Mosey Rathbun, sending a dildo to her office. The model was set in stone by L Ron Hubbard and Mary Hubbard’s Guardians Office, $cientology Inc. and 4 decades later, the same techniques are used still. Disgusting, reprehensible, criminal.

    • Seannie5

      Disgusting.

    • MeWOG

      I know someone how committed suicide after being accused of child molestation. That’s sickening. Of course, that would have been mission accomplished for the Church of $limatology.

    • Interested

      Found this. It is very interesting. In fact he says Hubbard behind everything. http://youtu.be/i2r2Nd6OJT4

  • valshifter

    in America little boots is the punching bag the lawyers defend so fiercely , who is the punching bag for sciloontology in Europe?

    • MaxSpaceman

      Captain David Miscavige, Sea Organization, Cult of $cientology Inc.

  • MeWOG

    I liked Upworthy on fb the day before Jamie’s performance hit! Coincidence?

    Well, yeah a total coincidence. : )

  • Victoria Pandora

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandorawake/11894757415/lightbox/ I just want you all to know that now I have got this notice when I tried to log into ESMB,all my doubts about anything that ever occurred in Scientology on the past track, in the present, or in the future are now resolved.

    • Rita Gregory

      Whoooping it up aren’t they? Bastards!

    • Captain Howdy

      ESMB has been shutdown?

      • Miss Tia

        How many years was it there? How could it be suddenly suspended?!

        • splog

          The ESMB website is not responding. There can be a zillion legitimate reasons for this and somewhere near the bottom you find “nefarious shit concocted by cos”. Something is delivering the account suspended page so presumably the entire machine has not been knocked out.

          In my day job I get to fix this kind of stuff all the time, if I had to troubleshoot this one first thing I’d check is to see if the backend database that holds accounts and postings is running. It probably isn’t, so the webserver is delivering a standard default page.

          This kind of shit happens all the damn time, mostly because the internet is mostly held together with bubble gum and duct tape. We sysadmins normally hide that little fact from you 🙂

          • I was reading a technical blog about why Pirate Bay wasn’t really using North Korean servers, and the writer pointed out that in doing so, they were playing Stupid Internet Tricks that could knock the Internets for a loop if the tricks became undone.

            This person speaks the truth.

    • Drat

      It was down yesterday, then up again today. Possibly performance issues or somebody has run a DDoS attack on it?

    • Cunning Stunt

      I thought I read that yesterday’s outage was caused when ESMB was mistakenly identified as a WWE fan site? Perhaps this is more of the same. Apparently those WWE fans don’t mess around!

  • Mary_McConnell

    Nasty? lol!! I’m surprised that no one in that Facebook thread called the article ‘entheta’. We love entheta like that!

  • Mary_McConnell

    Thank you for keeping us up-to-date on the European court scene. Jonny’s the best!

  • Mark

    With thanks to DamOTclese2 and apologies to the shade of William Frederick Yeames (refresh):

    • media_lush

      …. aaah, that bring back memories when I lived in Monaco…. “va tu fait foutre” was a favourite of mine [hope I spelt that right]

      • Mark

        Corrigé: “va te faire foutre”. On peut dire aussi “va t’enculer” ou “fous-moi le camp” 😉

        • media_lush

          that’s what I originally wrote… then I compared it to my old school classes… felt wrong

          what I found really bizarre is that I lived in Monaco for 10 years and never really spoke French until the last 2 as everyone spoke English as we were a bunch of different nationalities…. but the thing that surprised me was that once I started speaking French on a regular basis I was actually thinking in French… after a month or so it became my default setting and I had to consciously concentrate to get back to English again

          • Mark

            It is an odd feeling reverting to your own language after being immersed in another one – something like it happens after living on a boat for any length of time – back on dry land you find yourself wondering why the world’s not six feet wide and gently rocking!

            • media_lush

              … the few times I needed to speak French in years 1to 8 it felt stilted…. then my parents let me go out and buy booze for myself… my first date with a French girl and a bottle of wine and whammo, I was mister frenchie; a real cognition of all the subconscious absorbtion bursting forth in perfect french…. I even had the shoulder shrugs!

            • Mark

              And the “bofs” and “heins” as well? We had a French assistant from Marseilles at school one year and all ended up sounding like extras from The French Connection

            • media_lush

              I don;t know if you’ve ever seen the UK comedy ‘Allo ‘Allo but it has the most extreme (and often very funny) franglais ever put to film…. kind of like Clouseau on laughing gas

            • Mark

              Wheurt? Av cairse Ah ‘ave sin “Allo Allo” (wiz ze Madonna wiz ze big boobies) – and Ah shall say zis urnly wurnce!

  • sidelinecommenter

    Off topic, but does anyone have information on why “account suspended” is on the page that comes up for ex-scn forum? ( http://www.forum.exscn.net/‎ )

    • Candy Swanson

      No idea why, but says the same for me now too. It was working fine about 5 hours ago. 🙁

      • Victoria Pandora

        yeah, i checked in this morming, all was fine.

    • Observer

      Weird–your comment is missing on my screen. The up and down arrows are right under your name.

      • Artoo45

        Discus has been wonkier than usual. All the upvotes were listed as guest for a while. I can’t see sideliner’s comment either.

        • Miss Tia

          Disqus is driving me nuts(er) than usual with the pop up (X# of new posts above) or one below saying the same—LET ME OPT OUT OF THAT! GAH! then stuff appears, reappears, it shows ‘someone is typing’ (so??)….

          now, if i am scrolling down and there’s BEEN a new comment instead of the pop up banner on top or below i like the little thing under a comment with the # of new comments below that comment….they went over board with other things though….all whilst comments still disappear/reappear too!

          • Annee

            It’s been wonky all evening.

      • Rita Gregory

        The up arrows are very weird today too. I thought it was my mouse but everything else seems to work fine.

  • Observer

    Wow, both ESMB and WWP are down.

    EDIT: DERP! Just ESMB, but that’s not news.

    • Artoo45

      This is what I get when I try to go to the WWP forum about ESMB . . .

      • Mark

        Try clicking on “Retry for a live version of the site” – then it works OK.

        • Artoo45

          That works, but it looks different . . .

          • Mark

            Orange not blue livery?

            • Artoo45

              Blue on the one I see.

            • Mark

              I got the orange version (the archived one?), but it has a “try for live” button at the top l.h. corner that restored the live blue one – and then the “what’s new” button worked for the latest posts (some interesting stuff about that $cibot hotel in Tintagel from BlackRob, for instance).

      • Observer

        Everything’s weird this evening.

      • kemist

        Loads fine for me.

    • Marc Headley

      Next I will take down OCMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Justice will be mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

      Oh wait, never mind….

    • DeElizabethan

      I have no problem with WWP.

      • Observer

        I don’t either … I had typed WWP instead of whyweprotest into the navigation bar. *facepalm*

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    I know about ESMB, but is anyone else having problems with the New Orleans Saints? It looks like they are down.

    • Sarah James

      Lol

    • Missionary Kid

      I was mildly rooting for them, and they lost.

      • Sandy

        I was sorta pulling for NOLA too – just cuz it’s Ellen Degenerous’ team

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          When did Ellen play for the Saints…?

          • Sandy

            Yeah – funny … ;o)

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Both teams are fun to watch, so I didn’t really care who advanced or have a rooting interest. I predicted Seahawks vs. Broncos in the Super Bowl way back in the early regular season, and it would be nice to be right for a change. But the Saints did make it interesting late, so good show. Good show.

    • Sandy

      Got kinda good there at the end …

    • Her_Royal_Blondeness

      Down and Out!

    • Robert Eckert

      I live in Detroit, where we never have to concern ourselves with such things.

      • MaxSpaceman

        But a new coach should change all that. There’s a lot o’ talent in them Lions.

        • Robert Eckert

          Every new coach is going to “change all that”. He will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        I hear that. I root for the Thieveland Clowns during the regular season. So in the playoffs, I root for the team that’s “most fun to watch.”

        • Sandy

          As a Vikings fan (4 Super bowls, zero wins), I am with ya

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            I like how they map NFL rooting interests with Facebook data now. These always fascinate me, because I love geography and little colored squares.

            http://deadspin.com/who-is-america-rooting-for-this-weekend-1498994416

          • Captain Howdy

            As a 49ers/Patriots fan with 8 Super Bowl wins between them, I feel your and Jimmy’s pain.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I suspect that you are teasing us. Now rooting for Luck.

    • NOLAGirl

      As a fan, that was painful to watch. We have serious needs that I pray are addressed in the off-season. That last play….was like an LRH quote…made no sense at all. 🙂

  • media_lush

    just got back from a major curry night that ended with old school Irish Coffees…. bit of a tangent but a little thought/question type thing struck last night for no apparent reason apart from a cable promo for Silence Of The Lambs….. my thought/question about this is did any of the exes watch this film with a member and discuss it? …. given the propensity for abhorring all things psyche I was curious how they described/resolved all issue that came up in the film… I have this vision of tiny fists saying that Hannibal Lector would make the perfect scientologist type thing…

    apologies if I’m not making sense… blame the curry and scotch

    • Missionary Kid

      I basically avoid horror movies, and I’ve never seen SOL, but every time I see anything related to it in the future, I’ll have a vision of DM as Hannibal. 😉

      • Rita Gregory

        Hannibal is crazy but smart, DM is crazy but not very smart.

        • Missionary Kid

          Excellently put!

      • Sandy

        Read the book instead

        • MaxSpaceman

          It’s a heckuva good book, if one like thrillers. Actually, the 1st book was the better, as SOL was the 2nd. And the 1st movie was good, starring William Petersen, but not as good as SOL.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Red Dragon and SOL were good……but that third book sucked…..
            As if Clarisse would run away with him…….yeah right.

            • MaxSpaceman

              blech! on the third book. Didn’t buy it, didn’t want anything to do with it. Red Dragon, though, back when, the book, really had bite to it and was skeeery !

            • Sandy

              hmmmm – need to reread. Was disappointed at the time. Will try again

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I really liked Red Dragon.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m not into the genre in books and film. I do occasionally read true crime. The reality is bad enough.

      • media_lush

        he’s so wonderfully played by Hopkins that you develop an empathy for him…. that, or the fact he didn’t kill Clarisse.

        no, I was more curious how a couple of scions would have discussed this movie after watching it… all that cult speak etc

        …. also, I’ve had quite a bit to drink

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          My never-in guess:

          -Oh my Xenu, Dr. Lecter is such an SP!
          -It’s a compilation of true stories. Psychs are all like that, dontcha know
          -I knew it!

        • Robert Eckert

          It puts the money in the Tent, or else it starts the Bridge again.

          • Rita Gregory

            My first actual laugh out loud today! Thank you sir. 🙂

          • media_lush

            …. lulz, needs a shoop

          • Captain Howdy

            “A scientologist once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti”

          • noseinabk

            It puts the oil on its skin. It puts the money in the basket.

        • Missionary Kid

          Cheers!

        • VickiStubing

          Our local sports reporter JUST made a SOL joke! Too funny! And kinda creepy…

      • OT8squared

        DM as a sociopathic genius. You’re half-right.

        • Missionary Kid

          I don’t think he’s a genius at anything, but I do think he’s had extensive training in how to be one.

  • EnthralledObserver

    If it’s established in Mosey’s case that Davey Makemerich is the top dog, controlling everything, then will he be personally charged in this Belgium case?

    • MaxSpaceman

      nope.

      the ‘entities’, the legal structures that make up its presence in Belgium will.

    • MaxSpaceman

      nope.

      the ‘entities’, the legal structures that make up its presence in Belgium will.

  • Observer

    Random J&D

    • VickiStubing

      Is that the Doodlebops? As if THEY weren’t already creepy enough! Nightmares again tonight, thanks Obs!

      • Observer

        Nix nightmares. It’s the Stonehenge scene from This Is Spinal Tap.

        • VickiStubing

          What a relief! Oh, I see it now. Doh. Great work, as always 😀

        • VickiStubing

          What a relief! Oh, I see it now. Doh. Great work, as always 😀

  • Zer0

    To keep things in perspective about “socks”, imagine if we got a post like this in 2014:

    Mike (Sep 16, 2010)
    “I cannot believe that the Village Voice allows this Ortega guy to continue his campaign of religous bigotry against Scientology and pass it off as journalism. Practically all claims presented are of the “he said-she said” variety.

    As a scientologist I do not see the COS as being on its last legs, but truthfully that is my business, not yours.
    The anti-scientology movement has no relevent foundation except the irrational urge to see it destroyed. Further the anti-scientology movement, through there own internet forums, have proven themselves to
    be pro-drugs, pro-pornography and anti-religion.”

    We’ve come a long way since then!

  • Zer0

    To keep things in perspective about “socks”, imagine if we got a post like this in 2014:

    Mike (Sep 16, 2010)
    “I cannot believe that the Village Voice allows this Ortega guy to continue his campaign of religous bigotry against Scientology and pass it off as journalism. Practically all claims presented are of the “he said-she said” variety.

    As a scientologist I do not see the COS as being on its last legs, but truthfully that is my business, not yours.
    The anti-scientology movement has no relevent foundation except the irrational urge to see it destroyed. Further the anti-scientology movement, through there own internet forums, have proven themselves to
    be pro-drugs, pro-pornography and anti-religion.”

    We’ve come a long way since then!

    • media_lush

      said someone who created an account a few minutes ago

      (is that a good or bad thing?, ed)

      • Robert Eckert

        Zer0 has been creating fresh new Zer0’s for a couple years.

    • Observer

      Indeed!

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I’d say “this guy has only 5 posts, let’s check if he’s wearing socks!” But I don’t really understand this whole thing, or why it’s bad to post while wearing socks. Also, it’s good to see you posting, Zer0. Seems like a while.

      • Miss Tia

        Oh dear, it was almost 100 degrees warmer today than on monday and i am BAREFOOT today, no socks….oops! 🙂

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Yesterday and today were not bad at all. Didn’t even have to shovel the walk because all the snow melted. It was great.

          • Miss Tia

            Yep I think all our snow is gone but NOW we’re back in the 20s and suppose to get to 14 tonight (Uh, anything is better than -48! 🙂 I’ll be wearing socks tomorrow to keep my feet warm though 😀

            • SandiCorrena

              Socks are a large part of why I was pleased to move away from Ohio and head south; every once in a while when I think about moving home then I remember “oh wait…..winter & socks” Even my childhood Santa lap picture was me sockless, cold but sockless…. I’d walk through a blizzard in bare feet for a Luigi’s pizza though, happily!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      It would be a LOL fest?

      • Zer0

        Yes it would, BTN. Remember the eyeball of Louanne?

        • Robert Eckert

          I always addressed her as Creepy Eyeball Lady. According to Anon sources Tony vouches for, here is her real-life creepy stare:

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Oh! So this is her, eh? Well, nice to see her smiling.

            • ThetaBara

              Yeah, Lisa something. There’s a thread on WWP and another on esmb.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              So she isn’t Laurisse? Oh well.

          • richelieu jr

            Thsi woman had five husbands? What did he do– BIte them to death?

        • Suzy

          Is that like the Ides of March? “Julius Ceasar, beware the eyeballs of Louanne!”

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Yeah, whatever happened to Louanne? I miss her eyeball……..sort of.
          Well not really.

          • Zer0

            She’s afeared of the Bunker, very afeared

          • noseinabk

            The last post I found from her was a few months after the Portland opening. I can not remember the exact time. Maybe late fall. I do remember that it was a very halfhearted post for her.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Maybe she blew. That would be kinda too much to hope for, but really funny.

            • noseinabk

              That would be awesome. If a person like her blew? She would never keep her mouth shut!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              The day Leah Remini filed a report with the LAPD.
              Edit: Rather, the day it was reported that Leah Remini filed a report with the LAPD.

            • Robert Eckert

              Those posts on the missing-person report (first week of August) were the last using the “Louanne” ID (and the Twitter account fell silent) but some ID’s since have seemed Louannish.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              You could be right. I can’t recall any in particular, but I’ve given up reading every single comment here.

            • Robert Eckert

              There was only one distinctly Louannish ID here (months ago, made weird remarks about how the whole Bunker consists of “19” people all praising each other with their socks) but on Radar and Hollywood Reporter there have been some that had apparently similar modus operandi

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            If Louanne is indeed Laurisse, I would think she’d be under quite a bit of personal stress right now…

            • Robert Eckert

              Tony says that theory is definitely not true, that it was the Lisa Lirones (also known by a variety of other names from her various husbands) shown below.

    • Great White Clam

      “Practically all claims presented are of the “he said-she said” variety.”

      DOX or STFU.

      Now, if you were to drop the “i” like so; ” Practically all clams presented are of the “he said-she said” variety” it would make so much more sense.

    • richelieu jr

      Wait– How’d they know I’m pro pornography?

      And people are still getting shouted down on ‘free-speech’ grounds on Rinder’s blog (well, as of a couple of months ago)

  • FromPolandWithLove

    My perspective on “socksgate”

    • OrangySky

      Do you have Moomintrolls in Poland????

      • FromPolandWithLove

        Moomins don’t troll, Moomins rule :).
        In serious cases of trollz we can ask Buka for help…

        • Mark

          That looks awfully like a Groke to me…

          • Great White Clam

            They get sand in their nether regions, too.

  • media_lush

    NEW BLOG POST UP… will be adding to it for the next hour or so

    http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk

    • Sarah James

      Does anyone know what street busty davey is on the corner of? Is it Hollywood Blvd?

      • media_lush

        I got the shoop from here but can’t remember who posted it

        • Sarah James

          Honey, you really have had too much to drink. 🙂
          Davey with bust or not scohb.

          • Great White Clam

            Let me try…….

  • media_lush

    Okay, so we’ve got Meryl Streep matchmaking for Katie Holmes…. any suggestions for Tom Cruise (tiny fists and his minions don’t count)

    http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_article.php?locID=1.803.810&article=123285

    • Rita Gregory

      David Miscavige? I’ll bet Davey thinks he counts. 😉

      • media_lush

        I said tiny fists doesn’t count

        …. … perhaps Charlie Sheen… he always seems to have an abundance of women who don’t care who they date

        (type thing example)

        • Suzy

          I heard Tom doesn’t accept anyone who’s done a three-way.

          • Great White Clam

            TC is peculiar in that area.

          • Great White Clam

            TC is peculiar in that area.

    • Sarah James

      No, I got nothing. 🙂
      What is his species again?

  • Hingle McCringleberry

    This is totally off topic, but my phone has a feature called OK Google Now where you can ask your phone questions. It’s pretty accurate and will speak the answer to your question if its a finite, definite answer. For example, I ask how far I am from a specific place and it will verbally tell me the driving time and display the mileage. If I ask for something only slightly less definite like movie times, it will bring up a webpage with the answer. So scary result today:

    Me: Okay Google Now- What it the current temperature in Pyongyang?
    OGN (verbally)- the current temperature in Pyongyang is 22 degrees. (Weather conditions displayed on screen).

    Me: OGN- Who was the 15th president of the United States?
    OGN: (verbally) Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States.

    Me: OGN- When was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints founded?
    OGN- (no verbal) Web results for Joseph Smith (wikipedia) and other results for webpages about or from the Mormon.

    Me: OGN- What is the score of the game between the Saints and the Seahawks?
    OGN- (verbally) The score is Seattle 6 and New Orleans 0 with (xx.xx cant remember) left in the first quarter.

    And Most Importantly:

    Me: OGN- Who founded the Church of Scientology?
    OGN: (verbally) Church of Scientology was founded by L. Ron Hubbard. (Onscreen there was first a paid ad for “Truth about Scientology- Scientology.org, then LRH Wikipedia, then Church of Scientology Editing Wikipedia article on Wikipedia, then Scientology.org.)

    And wait for it. . . wait for it. . .

    Me: OGN- Who is the current leader of the Church of Scientology?
    OGN: (verbally!!)- “Results indicate that David Miscavige is the leader of the Church of Scientology.” (results were the same ad for Scientology.org, then DM wikipedia, CoS wikipedia, then VV article about Shelly disappearing, then a US Mag article 5 Things You Didn’t Know About COS)

    So call Ray Jeffrey. Google verbally acknowleges DM. It also verbally acknowledges Mr. DM (it says Mister for this question, but not as head of COS) as Chairman of the RTC, but doesnt verbally state who is the CO of the SO. A little freaky. Also, OGN would not verball state the identity of the first president of the Turkish Republic, the current premier of the People’s Republic of China, the Pope, the US Secretary of Homeland Security, the head of the Southern Baptist Convention, or the senior senator from Arizona. I tried all of these for reference.)

    • Sarah James

      Does google have a zenu app?

      • Hingle McCringleberry

        They should. Cheers!

    • Hingle McCringleberry

      Downvoted myself also so the OSAbot can get a rice and beans break. Hingle is a HUMANITARIAN!!!!

      • Mooser

        People who down-vote themselves may suffer from doxophobia. Or the heartbreak of psoriasis, but that can happen to anybody.

        • Hingle McCringleberry

          Everyone Loves a Carlin referrence. Bursitis of the tear duct. I’m downvoting my comment here in loving memory of George Carlin.

          • Mooser

            Hingle, just be aware, a down-vote goes on your permanent record.

            • Sandy

              Mooser I think it would help if you stuck to on topic posts. Just a suggestion …

            • Hingle McCringleberry

              DOWN!voted to pad my record. In honor of MOOSER, the McCringleberry Institute is promoting the new phrase “Needle-Float” as a more civilized, sane, criminal and drug free substitute to the former vulgar expression of Mother Fuc(downvote)ker. Por Ejemplo, I was late getting home because some DavMisc NeedleFloater cut me off in the turn lane!

        • Great White Clam

          I can’t downvote myself. Just. Can’t.

          • Mooser

            You must. The unexamined life is not worth living. You are the only one who knows the true worth of that post, and you have every right to make your opinions known!

            • Hingle McCringleberry

              Downvoted because the point about unexamined life is more true than most people can deal with head on. Boom. NEEDLE FLOATING DOWNVOTE.

          • Hingle McCringleberry

            Downvoted by Hingle in honor of the Louis CK bit about if murder was legal. Wondered where DM was at that moment. Because some people are alive simply because killing them is illegal. . .

    • OT8squared

      OK Google Now is an SP, can’t be trusted. Siri is an OT. Samantha is a never-in. Kirstie Alley was trying to recruit her, but then she started hanging around with that guy from the bigoted movie The Master.

      • Hingle McCringleberry

        That comment could have only been better if you had gotten all of it into haiku format. I had to get this new phone because my old one what eaten. I suspect a certain person you listed above. . . I’m off to get some more paint thinner, hop a boat, and hope for the best. . .

        • Great White Clam

          W.T.F.

          • Great White Clam

            Damn. I’ve been trying to downvote my above post for several minutes. Can somebody help me out here?

            • Robert Eckert

              Anything for a pal.

            • Great White Clam

              LOL

            • Mooser

              What is this place coming to, when a man, or rather, a clam, can’t down-vote his very own post? Frankly, I think the writer of the post is the only one who should be allowed to down-vote a post. It’s only fair.

            • Great White Clam

              F*%#k.
              That almost exactly what I thought, Mooser!

              And I’m celebrating with a ceremonial downvote for your comment!

            • Great White Clam

              Thanks.

        • Mooser

          For God’s sake, make sure you’ve got plenty of paint thinner!

          • Hingle McCringleberry

            For True. When I come up with the correct mix, OTIX wont be far behind. Until then, I’m pouring another and thinking of a cool acronym for the upcoming Golden Age of the McCringleberry Humanitarian Downvote XII program. Upvotes are so 2013.

            Here’s your confidential briefing which you WILL NOT post on Facebook: Coming soon, I’ve developed technology where you will never upvote my posts. You will downvote them then leave a dedication comment. This downvote’s for my SP boss who tried to tell me I can’t smoke at my dest, or This Downvote’s for my bitch ex-whoever. Downvote the charge right off that engram. And cheaper. I’m downvoting this post for the psych drugs I took earlier that gave me the focus to come up with this tech.

    • Robert Eckert

      That’s Hearsay!

      • Great White Clam

        Hear! Hear!

      • richelieu jr

        Say! Say!

        Again with the hearsay heresy!

        • Qbird

          Richelieu – You may go over to this and see what it’s like talking to Insanity.

          Now as JLifter, it is all the same-O stuff, minus the foul words, you can see what “you missed”. Interesting. Heidi, Jo, Eclipse girl & Robert are pretty amazing.

          http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/01/scientology-human-trafficking-investigation/

          • richelieu jr

            Thanks!
            For the rest- Of course our folks were amazing! Goes without saying!

  • IBBy

    I got quite a giggle over the wringing of hands over the upworthy post. I see sec checks for the first person to post it and more sec checks for the one who reinforced it. I’ve stopped feeling the feels for most of these folks. I feel for the children born into it who never learn any different, and I feel for those families ripped apart by the cruelty of disconnection. But the average cherch member? Nope. You willfully and proudly claim allegiance to an organized crime syndicate who thinks stalking, harassing, and sending sex toys is religious freedom of speech. Fuck all of you with an e-meter.

    • Great White Clam

      LOL “an organized crime syndicate who thinks stalking, harassing, and sending sex toys is religious freedom of speech. Fuck all of you with an e-meter.”

      Why don’t you tell us how you really feel? You’re among friends here…

      Yep. Sec checks all around, and maybe the RPF for some. Sad. It’s like the clam cult NEEDS the resistance! Well, I’m sure you’ll be able to find some “tech” on that issue…

      • Mooser

        The thought of the “born-ins’ is, to be sure, a sobering one.

  • noseinabk

    I have a few questions that I can not find the answers to. I was going to take one last crack at it today and hit a wall with esmb down.
    I was looking for information about the dress whites that the sea org had. I wanted to know when that started and ended, if it did. Who had the rank to wear them? The information I found is conflicting. OCMB said it started in 1968 and others said 1988.
    Also want to know if the average sea org member in the late 1970’s early 80,s would be listed in the scientology completions?

    • Tony Ortega

      Please tell us first that you’re not trying to hunt down the Amanda Palmer uncle in a navy outfit nonsense.

      • noseinabk

        Ha! I started the search for the dress white info because of a person in our family who ran off with an alleged navy guy, in the late 1970,s. We adopted her daughter after she was sent to us on a “vacation” from CA. Every few years I do a new search for her.
        Now I am just curious about who gets listed on the completions.

    • Simi Valley

      When I joined the SO in early1988, whites were already in use. Some orgs were issued whites as one of their uniforms. I don’t remember if I was issued any whites. Regarding SO members listed in truthaboutscientology.com (if that is what you mean by completions), I believe that’s a yes.

      • noseinabk

        Did all of the sea org have dress whites? I am talking about the ones that look like navy officer uniforms and not the sailor shirts I have seen in some old pictures. Did Cos stop the dress white uniform?

        • Simi Valley

          There were some orgs that were issued dress whites. I recall that people working in warmer climates tended to have whites – at one point in the early 90s, I saw them at Flag – not dress whites but everyday whites. On the Freakwinds the staff also wore whites because of the climate – they were in a pretty warm climate. I’m pretty sure that the orgs that wore everyday whites also had dress whites – those would be separate uniforms.

          • noseinabk

            Thank you Simi.

          • noseinabk

            My next question is,how complete are the scientology completions?

            • domitare

              Well, judging by recent events it seems that the “finish” line has been moved way far and those in the running have been told that they were running in the wrong track so now they
              need to get to the correct “Start” line. . . I don’t know whether to cry or laugh my bum off.

          • domitare

            You are correct. FCB command level wear navy whites during summer. I could never get myself to wear the hat, though. I’m glad I did not have to.

    • Techie

      Hi Nose. For a while (from about ’89 to ’95) there was a style in some SO units to wear whites in the summer and blues in the winter. It was extremely variable from unit to unit, and a lot of units didn’t have the $$ to do it. I mostly remember the Freewinds crew in whites, though I was always there in summer so maybe they went to blues in the winter too. There was a uniform called Tropical Whites with shorts as well. After GAT 1 there was a wild variety of uniforms in the SO and by the time I left in 2004 the only place you saw whites was on the Freewinds. That is what I recall of regular whites. Dress whites were much less common, not sure that I ever saw it. The official Full Dress uniform (for missions and ceremonies) is the blue one informally called Dress Blues. If the org was “in whites” (summertime) you didn’t have to have any particular rank to wear them.
      As far as completions, typically an SO member would train or get auditing in a local Qualifications Division for their unit, so they would not be listed on the major org completions lists. At Flag it might be different, never served there, but in PAC (LA) most units had their own internal statistics and only rarely would they be listed in the public lists.
      Hope that helps.

      • noseinabk

        Thank you Techie.

      • richelieu jr

        I think they lest them because the combination of the laxatives in the food (bean and rice every day will plug a poor slave up, folks!) and loss of bowel control every time L’il Debby started screaming was running up the laundry bills. I mean, hey’ve only got a billion on reseves!

      • noseinabk

        Great info. Thanks.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      There was some discussion on this on Rinder’s blog, on the entry called “Captain Miscavige Predicts the Future.”

  • TheCommodeDoor

    The Scio commercial previewed earlier this week, was just shown on KCBS during half time for the Colts / Patriots game.

    • Missionary Kid

      Not shown 100 miles away.

    • TheCommodeDoor

      Approx. 6:40pm Pacific. Seen in Los Angeles.

  • Deeana

    When I am planning to travel I always like to read hotel reviews on the popular online ratings sites. It HELPs me to decide where I want to stay. There is a certain “Ms Tia” who has a review posted about a certain “plush, upscale” hotel in Florida that is quite informative. And hilarious!

    • MaxSpaceman

      Link?

    • IBBy

      I wrote a review too but it seems to be verboten and not recommended to people 🙁 maybe they didnt like when I talked about the freewinds suite and its snow globe effect

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Luffly.

  • Tony Ortega

    NEW POST UP!!

    • Zer0

      Awesome!

    • Mooser

      It’s the middle of a Saturday evening! What could possibly have happened? Well, better lower my head trumpet, paw, and charge over there.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      “…why most journalists hate it with the heat of a thousand suns.”

      Thank you for this phrase today. It was such a pleasure to read… and re-read… and to repeat it quietly… and even better, to read it right out loud to an empty room!

      I can very easily hear it being professionally read on stage…. then rehearsed on stage… and finally, hear it forcefully repeated to a packed theatre.

      After your book is published (and won many awards and accolades), perhaps you would want to consider writing a play as well.

      Well, at least while you wait for your agent(s) to finish negotiations with film producers over movie rights and also the contract for you to write the screenplay. Just saying.

      Your words, your work, your blog, and you – so powerful. Thank you – for ALL that you do.
      And thank you for all that you do for us (individually and collectively) in the Bunker, i.e., YOUR Bunker.

      Cars

  • Unex Skcus

    Jonny Jacobsen publishes great articles. He’s so on the ball.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Ultra tru-dat, US

  • Sydjazz