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The Tom Cruise Smear Machine: Accusations From His Deposition You Haven’t Heard

InTouchCoverHundreds of pages of court documents in Tom Cruise’s $50 million lawsuit against Bauer Media, publishers of In Touch and Life & Style magazines, were put into a public court file recently, and yesterday, RadarOnline pounced on a short excerpt from a deposition given by Cruise.

We have more pages from Cruise’s deposition than Radar posted, as well as hundreds more documents which Cruise’s lawyers were able to pry out of Bauer — including internal e-mails between employees at the magazines as they were putting together the stories that Cruise found so offensive. In all, there’s some pretty fascinating material here beyond the revelations that became public yesterday. You’ve probably already heard that Cruise admitted to being separated from his daughter for more than three months after his divorce, and that he also admitted, somewhat vaguely, that Scientology was one “aspect” to the reason he and Katie Holmes split up.

Cruise is suing family-owned Germany-based Bauer Media for two headlines. On July 30, 2012, Life & Style Weekly put the words “Suri In Tears: Abandoned By Her Dad” on its cover, and on October 1, 2012, In Touch Weekly had the headline “Abandoned By Daddy” on its front page.

A year after Cruise filed the lawsuit, the battle lines are clear. Bauer refuses to identify its confidential sources, but argues that its reporting on Cruise was solid: the actor had seen his daughter only about 10 out of 110 straight days after the couple split up, and so its editors were within their rights to characterize that as “abandoning” the child. Cruise argues that Bauer can show no specific reporting that any of its sources told them he had “abandoned” Suri, and that using that word brands Cruise as a criminal dead-beat, rather than the caring father who spoke to his daughter on the phone practically every day.

Elizabeth McNamara, attorney for Bauer Media

Elizabeth McNamara, attorney for Bauer Media

On September 9, Cruise was deposed by Bauer’s attorney Elizabeth McNamara. And while much of it dealt with how many days Cruise spent away from his daughter, McNamara managed to ask about a few other subjects.

Early on, she asked Cruise about the way he and his lawyers had tried to make this lawsuit about Bauer’s past and some of its more controversial publications.

She told Cruise that his lawyer “had injected the notion that one of the issues in the litigation would be Bauer’s history of bigotry and hatred toward minority groups…”

She asked him to look at an article published in February by Sharon Waxman’s publication, The Wrap.

McNamara then began trying to get Cruise to admit that it was his attorneys who had supplied the information for the story in an attempt to smear Baur Media…

McNamara: Were you aware in any way that your lawyers had anything to do with this news article?…Would you be troubled if you learned that your counsel provided much of the information that’s contained in this article?

Cruise: I don’t know. I’d have to think about it.

McNamara: Do you think that — do you think that’s a legitimate means of prosecuting a legal claim, to supply news organizations with negative information concerning the defendant, insinuations that they are anti-Semitic, pro-Nazi and the like that has nothing to do with this litigation?

Cruise: I don’t know, you know, honestly, I really don’t. What I find most disturbing is that I have to sit here and look at this photograph of my daughter with “Abandoned By Daddy,” to me that’s what sticks out most….”He chose Scientology over Suri for good,” “Has he chosen Scientology over Suri for good? Abandoned by Daddy.” I mean come on, that is absolutely disgusting. That is absolutely disgusting. And I have to tell you with everything — listen, I am a public person, I absolutely understand. For me there is — I tolerate a tremendous amount and I’m very privileged to be able to have the life that I have, and I believe that. But there is a line that — that I draw for myself and — and that’s it. And I asked for an apology. I asked for a retraction. They denied it, wouldn’t do it, and then published that, you know — this is the second one, I guess, but they published it a second time. It’s very simple. This is something that could have gotten handled easily. And I understand, listen, with the Internet, with — you know, I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I’ve lived through the whole change and incarnation, and there is a point where — and this is it for me. So that’s how I feel about it.

McNamara then returned to the line of questioning, asking him if he authorized his attorneys to feed The Wrap for its story. He denied it.

She then asked if he used his connections at the Simon Wiesenthal Center — which gave Cruise a humanitarian award in 2011 — to have the Center investigate Bauer Media’s past.

McNamara: Did you have anything to do with the center’s investigation of Bauer?

Cruise: No, I didn’t.

She then showed him an e-mail from one of his attorneys to an AP reporter suggesting that the AP do a story on Bauer’s supposedly pro-Nazi past that McNamara said was very much like The Wrap’s piece.

McNamara: Do you believe such tactics like this after you file a defamation lawsuit and then you seek to gin up press around the world about the company that has nothing to do with the content or the issues in the litigation, do you believe that’s ethical?

Cruise: Listen, I think it’s — you have to look at something is it true or is it not true, and I — listen, I didn’t authorize it…I don’t know if it is a proper litigation tactic or not. The one thing that — all I wanted basically was for them not to print that I abandoned my daughter and that I chose my religion over my daughter, that’s what I want.

McNamara continued to ask if Cruise tried, essentially, to advance his lawsuit by having his attorneys smear Bauer with rumors about pro-Nazism.

McNamara: Reacting to negative press by insinuating an association with Nazism, this isn’t the first time that you’ve done this, is that right?

Cruise: What do you mean?

McNamara: That either you or representatives on your behalf when you’ve — when someone has…attacked you negatively in the press in some manner, the reaction is to accuse them of being pro-Nazi or anti-Semite or anti-religion?

Cruise: I don’t know…

McNamara: Do you recall a statement by Dr. Drew Pinsky concerning you?

Cruise: No.

Cruise may not recall the swipe at Dr. Drew, but we do.

In 2008, Pinsky had told Playboy: “Take a guy like Tom Cruise. Why would somebody be drawn into a cultish kind of environment like Scientology? To me, that’s a function of a very deep emptiness and suggests serious neglect in childhood — maybe some abuse, but mostly neglect.”

Cruise’s attorney Bert Fields fired back in the New York Post: “This unqualified television performer who is obviously just looking for notoriety is so grotesquely unprofessional as to pretend to diagnose Tom and others without ever meeting them. He seems to be spewing the absurdity that all Scientologists are mentally ill. The last time we heard garbage like this was from Joseph Goebbels.”

That was a Bert Fields classic.

The excerpt of the deposition in the court file then skips ahead, and we find McNamara asking about how long Cruise was separated from his daughter.

McNamara: Since the divorce — or rather since prior to that time, from June 18th of 2012 until Thanksgiving of 2012, you only saw Suri a few times, isn’t that right?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara said that records showed he had seen Suri only 10 days in that time.

Cruise: I don’t know the total number of days.

McNamara: Does that sound right?

Cruise: I don’t know. I’d have to look at it.

McNamara: They were the three days of July 17th to the 19th, when you came into New York, and then you went out to the Hamptons. Do you recall that?

Cruise: Yes, I do.

McNamara: OK. You saw her for 12 hours on July 26, or approximately thereof. Do you recall that? You were flying from London to LA and you stopped in New York for about 12 hours?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: And then there were the six days, approximately, when you came to New York and picked up Suri and you took her to Disney World?…Do you recall that?

Cruise: Yes, I do.

McNamara: So if you add those up, those are generously 10 days.

Cruise: OK.

McNamara: Do you have any reason to dispute that calculation?

Cruise: None.

McNamara: Prior to your divorce with Ms. Holmes was Ms. Holmes close with your other children, Connor and Isabella?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: And was she close with your sisters?

Cruise: Fairly, yes.

McNamara: One or more of your sisters lived in the home, is that right?

Cruise: At one point Cass did when we were living on Alpine.

McNamara: OK. But the other sisters don’t — you have three — is it correct you have three sisters?

Cruise: Three sisters.

McNamara: Do they all live in Los Angeles?

Cruise: No, they don’t. One lives in Florida. Two live in Los Angeles.

McNamara: OK. And was Katie close to your mother as well?

Cruise: Yeah, close enough, yes.

McNamara: I assume, you had friends in the church?

Cruise: Uh-huh, many friends.

McNamara: And during the marriage was Katie a practitioner of Scientology?

Cruise: Yes, and before the marriage.

McNamara: And did she leave the church when she divorced you?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: Had she left the church prior to that time?

Cruise: Not to my knowledge.

McNamara: Would you consider — would the church consider Ms. Holmes to be a suppressive person upon leaving the Church?

Cruise: There is — that is a distortion and a simplification of — of the matter.

McNamara: OK. Explain to me what does a suppressive person mean within the church.

Cruise: Someone who is — basically has an antisocial personality, someone who is dishonest, evaluates and invalidates to the extreme. It goes on from there. There is many different aspects to it. I don’t want to just give an oversimplification of religious doctrine.

McNamara: And I don’t want you to either. But one aspect of someone being a suppressive person — or I think you sometimes refer to it as SP, is that right?

Cruise: Uh-huh, yes.

McNamara: One aspect of someone being SP is when they leave the church, isn’t it?

Cruise: Yeah, but it’s also an oversimplification of something, and just to state it in a simple term, there’s — it’s just a broader subject.

It was now time to put in a new video card, and after that break McNamara asked Cruise to look at Scientology’s official website and its definition of “suppressive.” (In Scientology, when someone is “declared” a “suppressive person” or “SP,” all other Scientologists must cut of all ties from them — “disconnect” — or risk being declared SPs themselves.)

McNamara: Did you understand that publicly renouncing one’s faith is deemed to be a suppressive act within the church, at least according to this website?

Cruise: Yes…

McNamara: Since Ms. Holmes has left the Church of Scientology have — and I guess I’m going to focus between the period of June and November 2012, have your two other children had contact with Ms. Holmes?

Cruise: No.

Unfortunately, the excerpt in the court file skips ahead nine pages at this point, and so we don’t know yet what else Cruise said about his ex-wife and daughter and whether he and the church consider them suppressive persons.

The next segment starts nine pages later.

McNamara brings up press coverage which suggested that Katie Holmes had left the marriage to protect her daughter from Scientology.

Cruise replied that he wasn’t suing over that assertion, just the allegation that he had “abandoned” Suri.

McNamara: And do you believe it to be false that Ms. Holmes left you in part to protect Suri from Scientology?

Cruise: Listen, I find that question offensive. I find it — those statements offensive. And like with any relationship, there are many different levels to it. You know. I — I find it very offensive. There is no need to protect my daughter from my religion.

McNamara: OK. My question to you, and I apologize if you find it offensive. And again, I repeat, I’m sorry we’re here. I don’t want to be here. My client doesn’t want to be here. They don’t think this warrants litigation, but…

Cruise: I believe it does.

McNamara: I know you do, that’s why we’re here.

Cruise: Yes. Yes.

McNamara: But unfortunately, we are here and you have to answer the questions. And the question is whether you believe the published contentions that Katie Holmes left you in part to protect Suri from Scientology, whether those are false?

Cruise: Do I believe that?

McNamara: Do you believe that that is a false statement?

Cruise: I believe it is a false statement.

McNamara: And Ms. Holmes has never indicated in any way that that was one of the reasons that she left you?

Cruise: That is — that she left me because of?

McNamara: To protect Suri from Scientology.

Cruise: Did she say that? That was one of the assertions, yes.

McNamara: So those publications were not false?

Cruise: I mean, I — those publications I don’t know — first of all, I don’t know everything that they said in that, and there are many different other aspects to the divorce.

RadarOnline seized on this exchange to pronounce that Cruise had finally admitted Scientology had been the reason for his divorce from Holmes. We don’t think it’s quite that clear cut. McNamara is asking if the press was making that assertion, and Cruise agrees that the press was doing so: “That was one of the assertions, yes.” Look at it again carefully, he is talking about the press in that response.

But then, in his next utterance, he does, indirectly, appear to confirm that Scientology was one reason for the split: “there are many different other aspects to the divorce,” he says. That implies Scientology was one aspect to the divorce — but it’s a weak branch to hang a noose from.

We do have reason to believe that Katie Holmes’s souring attitude toward Scientology and her fears for Suri’s future in it played a part in her decision to divorce Cruise. But to say that he is acknowledging that fact with these words in his deposition is a bit of a stretch.

McNamara continues her questions…

McNamara: Is Suri currently practicing Scientology?

Cruise: No.

McNamara: From the time Ms. Holmes filed for divorce in late June, to your knowledge has Suri practiced Scientology?

Cruise: Here’s again, when you say “practiced Scientology,” it shows a lack of understanding and respect towards my religion….It shows a lack of respect and understanding for my religion. That is understandable in that it is a minority religion. People don’t know and understand, and of course the way things are reported or taken out of context, like many things, can create this kind of sense of what something is as opposed to people going and finding out and knowing about it themselves. To a child Scientology is — it’s not something. Look, it’s hard to sit here and say, you know, there is not — in the Catholic Church there is, you know, you have the First Communion. You have, you know, Bat Mitzvahs, Bar Mitzvahs in Judaism. Certainly there are religious rites, but very much so it’s about the application of something or doing — it’s not — you — it’s an applied religious philosophy, meaning it’s something that you study, you learn, and you apply to the degree that — and each individual has a level of application that they want to apply. Just because someone, you know — so when you’re talking about a seven-year-old, you know, it’s not the same thing as — as Catholocism or Judaism. It’s just, it’s different. It’s a different kind of thing.

McNamara: OK.

Now we skip ahead again about 20 pages.

McNamara is asking Cruise about security, and he talks about how the studios supply his security detail. Also, before the divorce, he and Suri were rarely separated: From January 2011 to May 2012 he was not away from Suri for more than a day or two at a time.

McNamara: Telephone is to some degree a poor substitute for physically being there, isn’t it?

Cruise: No question…You have to work at it. I’ve gotten very good at it…I tell wonderful stories and they like hearing it…

McNamara: But you don’t often — it really doesn’t substitute for being able to hug them, does it?

Cruise: No, it doesn’t.

McNamara: And in my experience when you talk to a young child like that on the phone they often get distracted.

Cruise: Yeah, they do, but as I said, I’ve gotten pretty good at communicating, and I also find that, you know, Suri, you know, is a very happy child, and confident and has a good sense of herself.

McNamara then begins to ask him about the work he was doing in October filming “One Shot” — the movie that became Reacher — and that he had left Pittsburgh for a one-day trip to London on October 15 so he could attend the annual gala of the International Association of Scientologists. (It was at an IAS gala in 2004 that Cruise was given a “Freedom Medal of Valor” by Scientology leader David Miscavige. Normally the IAS events are held in England, but this year, on Thanksgiving weekend, it will take place in Clearwater, Florida.) The implications of McNamara’s next questions are pretty clear — why could Cruise jet across the Atlantic for a 24-hour trip to an IAS gala and not take similar trips to see his own daughter?

McNamara: It says you were at an IAS event.

Cruise: Uh-huh.

McNamara: What is that?

Cruise: That’s an International Association of Scientology. It’s an international event that we have in our church.

McNamara: And were you speaking at the event?

Cruise: No, I was not.

McNamara: So you were just attending?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: And then according to this schedule you returned to Pittsburgh on Sunday, October 16th, and returned to filming?

Cruise: Yes…

McNamara: Do you know whether they had to shut down filming of One Shot because you flew out on Friday then returned on Sunday?

Cruise: No, they did not.

McNamara: And you believed it was important that you attended that event, didn’t you?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: Why was it important to you?

Cruise: It was an important event. I felt it was important.

McNamra: It’s an annual event?

Cruise: Yes, it is…

McNamara: But based upon this, you could fly from East Coast to London for 24 hours, is that right?

Cruise: In that situation, yes.

McNamara: And you did that for the church event —

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: — did you not? But you didn’t do it for Suri, isn’t that right?

Cruise: When did I not do it for Suri?

McNamara: In July, August, September, October.

Cruise: That’s not true…In July I did fly to see my daughter.

McNamara: I know, but I’m talking about from — let’s take — let’s take the dates from August 8th until Thanksgiving.

Cruise: Different situation.

McNamara: There was no 24-hour — there were no 24-hour period of time there that you couldn’t have flown to see Suri?

Cruise: Listen, when there is a divorce — if you look at this also in terms of Suri coming to me and certain agreements that you have, when a divorce occurs things change. And it’s more complicated, as everyone knows when that is, when that occurs, and there are certain agreements; now you have to ask for permission and organize schedules to make things happen. So it wasn’t — it’s not an ideal scene. It’s not an ideal situation.

McNamara: And you were in part responsible for that absence, weren’t you?

Cruise: No.

McNamara: In no way?

Cruise: No.

McNamara: You couldn’t have — you were unable to fly for 24 hours from London to new York?

Cruise: Yes.

McNamara: And why were you unable, Mr. Cruise?

Cruise: There are many different circumstances. One, first of all, at this point when you’re looking at — you can’t compare Reacher to All You Need Is Kill or Edge of Tomorrow. And the situation, you know, when you’re thinking of your child and thinking what is the best thing for them, and of course respecting Kate’s wishes in terms of Suri’s scheduling, the nature of making that film, the nature of having finished one film and kind of — agreements change, you know. That wasn’t how the thing was set up. As I said, things change. Things change. And certainly what doesn’t change is the love that I have for my daughter, the fact that I didn’t abandon her emotionally, physically or otherwise. And in terms of how I feel about her in terms of the responsibility that I feel towards my child is not — is not waned in any way.

McNamara then began asking him about how he travels, and that produced this interesting tidbit:

McNamara: Do you ever fly commercial?

Cruise: I flew commercial from Dubai.

McNamara: To where?

Cruise: To Los Angeles.

McNamara: Is that the only time it occurs to you in the last three or four years?

Cruise: Yes.

The Cruise deposition excerpt is only 48 pages out of hundreds of lengthy documents in the court file. Many of them give us a rare look inside the workings of a tabloid magazine — it’s not just Cruise who has had to divulge sensitive information.

There are many internal e-mails of Bauer Media employees. Like editor-in-chief Dan Wakeford, example, who on September 15, 2012 was still considering what to put on the cover of In Touch.

“I really like the Suri cover and had been moving towards it overnight. The fact she’s not seen Dad for 45 days with the mysterious backdrop of scientology is so crazy. We just need to amp the dek on Monday,” he writes in one message.

He’s referring to rewriting the words on the cover of the magazine and “amping” up their impact. For Cruise, it’s central to his argument — that the editors ignored the substance of the stories inside and the reporting that went into them to come up with a word like “abandoned” on the cover, a false assertion that harmed him, Cruise claims.

We think Cruise will have a very difficult time proving that. But whatever the legal merits, the other e-mails and documents are fascinating simply because of the glimpse they give of the preparation of a story at a tabloid magazine.

On July 16, 2012, for example, editorial director Jared Shapiro sent an e-mail titled “a few things to get for Tomkat”…

— The idea that Tom could use his Scientology expertise and power to brainwash to manipulate Suri.

— That he’d use his vast knowledge of power to try and control Katie.

Do we think one of our ex sci ti peeps could say all of this?

In another message, Shapiro wrote: “i think we have to find someone who acknowledges it’s all a form of brainwashing? i feel like that term has been thrown around so much, and since we are using it (possible as a word on the cover) we may need to find an ex sci-ti who will say it?”

But when they ask former church member Nancy Many about that, she says…

“I don’t like the word brainwashing, but one of the first things a child is taught is when something bad happens to them, they either did something bad themselves and that they are responsible for the condition they are in.”

(We have to agree with Nancy. We don’t like the word “brainwashing” either.)

In a September 12 e-mail, a smart interview that reporter Jessica Finn did with former Scientologist Brian Canup is described. Finn explains how Cruise hasn’t seen Suri in 45 days and wonders if Scientology has something to do with it. Canup says that Suri probably hasn’t been labeled a Suppressive Person because of her age and because of her high profile. Canup then suggests that Tom might be trying to make himself look like a victim by purposely keeping away from his daughter, and Canup adds that Scientology often tries to cast itself as a victim. Finn finds that an interesting interpretation of the facts. (And so do we.)

But Life & Style executive editor Terri White, reacting to the interview, writes in an e-mail: “No, it’s dead confusing. Having him in the simple villain role is better.”

In other words, though one of its reporters had found that there was an intriguing, if complex explanation for Cruise’s behavior, an editor wants to keep it black and white, good versus evil. Well, we all knew tabloids did that already, didn’t we?

Mark McGarry, In Touch ‘s senior articles director, also didn’t like Finn’s interview. “yeah, skip. we would get sued if we said he was turning his back on suri because she’s not scientology. maybe in connor part u can subtly note that he’s embraced scientology and leave it to readers to connect the dots”

Other documents include notes submitted by reporters who were tailing Katie and Suri. One reporter, Paris Hampton, followed them and then interviewed the waiter who had served their lunch…

At Via Quadronno, Katie, Suri, Suri’s friend and what seems to be the friend’s mom and one other person all had lunch today after FAO Schwartz. The waiter who served them said that Katie “talked to them like she knew them.” Suri had lasagna and had a hot chocolate for dessert. The staff drew a bear on the top of her drink and she loved it. The waiter added that Suri was “a really smart little girl. When I was pouring water in her friend’s drink, she said ‘Sir, you poured the sparkling water in her glass and she had flat water!’ How did she know that?!”

The waiter told me the Asian lady paid the bill (I’m assuming the friend’s mom) and Suri started to cry because she wanted her mom to pay the bill. But the lunch was very upbeat. They were all laughing throughout the meal and having a great time.

Suri cried because her mom wasn’t picking up the tab. Wow.

One of Bauer’s confidential sources, a “friend of the family,” said that Tom was always so focused on his career, he didn’t pay as much attention to his kids as he might.

Tom is a great dad but no one is surprised that he missed Suri’s first day of school. He has a way to shut everyone out when he is focusing on work, including his kids. Connor had a really hard time for a while with Tom being there for important events, like his soccer games. After Nicole and Tom divorced Connor really felt neglected. Tom’s mother even has mentioned to friends and Katie that she loves her son but she can be a little too focused when it comes to his career. Katie loves her dad and Tom loves Suri but his work comes first a lot. That is why Tom is making up lost time with Connor and Isabella now, they have expressed how upset they were that he use to never be around.

In a deposition, articles editor Mark McGarry revealed that he had learned before publication that Tom Cruise was talking to Suri on the phone just about every day.

Q. Did you ever let anybody know that in light of the information that you were adding to the article, that the cover ought to be changed and not say “Abandoned By Daddy”?

A. No, because I wasn’t thinking about it in those terms, as far as him speaking to her every day, being a meaningful connection. It was more the physically not being there in the day count, abandoned by daddy, is what she was feeling. There’s a difference between someone physically being there, I believe, and talking to someone on the phone.

Other documents reveal what Tom Cruise’s team of publicists and attorneys were doing as the articles were being prepared. On August 6, 2012, Bauer Media’s reporters asked for a comment from Cruise about a story they were preparing on Tom taking Suri to Disney World.

Cruise’s attorney Aaron Moss writes to the actor’s PR rep Amanda Lundberg and Cruise’s sister Lee Anne Devette:

Lee Anne & Amanda,

Rachel Biermann from In Touch just called me to apprise me on a new story that they are locking today. Along the lines of the one you found in the Sun Times last week, they are planning to report on how Tom took Suri to Disney World last week, and has been lavishing her with gifts, etc. in the hopes of one day possibly living with her. They will juxtapose the fact that Suri has “fun” with Tom, but is “disciplined” with Katie, how when she is with Tom she flies private jets, but was recently witnessed complaining when on a coach flight with Katie, etc.

Their deadline is 3 pm west coast tie today if we want to make a comment.
Rachel also noted that, in the past, she was able to work with Tom’s camp to help massage stories in a way that would make them less biased against Tom. She didn’t say this explicitly, but I think what she is hoping for is some “scoop” or additional information that she can work in in exchange for publishing a more flattering story.

In any event, I would recommend a comment along the lines of what Lee Anne wrote in her email last week:

“Thousands of people take their children to Disney World every year for vacation, and stay in the same hotels, ride the same rides, and do the same things Tom and suri are doing. Tom is not trying to ‘outdo’ anyone. His only goal is to be the best father he can be.”

Let me know your thoughts. Not sure if there is anything we could add that would demonstrate that Tom is teaching Suri, not just having “fun” with her, etc.

Thanks,
Aaron

Lundberg responded:

I don’t trust Rachel at all — I have given her info in the past to no avail.

I gave her info for the story that then went with the headline “katie escapes T.”

I don’t agree that statements that say nice things from my mouth in stories that say false things paints [Tom] in a more flattering light — what it does is — give the story merit. As we are caring enough about it.

A very small percentage of people fly private jets and helicopters so I worry the statement below will cause some serious snark and keep this going.

We are really seeing a slow down and when we speak — we keep it going.

My opinion is to say nothing.

Two days later, the article came out. And then Lundberg sent this e-mail to Moss and Devette, claiming that the magazine’s key source must be Katie Holmes’s friend and business partner…

And in true scum form…
The in touch cover line is “forgetting mommy already?”
Which will only cause jeanne yang to keep lying and speaking and keeping these stories going each week.

“How do you know it is Jeanne?” Moss asked her, and Lundberg responded:

A very good friend/editor slipped and said her name to me on Monday.

And two good sources told me it is all her.
And that leslee sloan calls the paparazzi every time k gets ready to leave the building as the doormen are always surprised how they suddenly show up when she is about to leave.

Moss responded: “Do you know if she said anything that would violate her Confidentiality Agreement? I haven’t seen it, but I understand that she is under one.”

Lundberg then answered in a way that suggests Yang is under some kind of confidentiality agreement…

I’m positive she has.
She likely told the press that they stayed at Cinderella’s castle as no one really knew.
And every single person tells me she is speaking to the press constantly.
She is the one saying — K is disciplinarian and T is spoiling and so on.

Later in August, they talked about sending a lawyer letter to Yang when a new story showed up in the press about Cruise saying things during the Disney World trip that had supposedly frightened Suri.

Ultimately, as we said, we expect Cruise to have a tough time winning this lawsuit, especially now that he’s admitted he spent so much time away from his daughter. Here’s what editor in chief Dan Wakeford said in a deposition…

Q. Do you believe that as of July 16, 2012, Mr. Cruise had deserted his daughter?

A. Yes, he wasn’t there for her. He didn’t see her. Any father who is not seeing their daughter at the most traumatic period of her life has deserted her.

Q. And do you believe that during that period, Mr. Cruise had abandoned her?

A. I believe she felt abandoned, yes. That he’d left her.

Q. Putting aside how Suri may or may not have felt at that time, do you believe that Mr. Cruise, by his conduct, abandoned her?

A. I used the word abandoned because I believed he deserted her, he’d left he, and he hadn’t physically seen her, and the facts are uncontestable.

On November 26, there will be a hearing before US District Court Magistrate Judge Jacqueline Chooljian, and both sides are asking for even more disclosures of sensitive information.

We asked a member of our legal team for an assessment of the documents released this week.

As far as I can see this litigation is a waste of time and money. Cruise wanted an apology from Bauer because it called him a bad father. They refused to apologize so he subjected himself to depositions where he admitted he didn’t see his daughter for many months at a time. Bauer in turn doesn’t want to give up its sources and wants Cruise to answer for various entities and people he is associated with calling it anti-Semitic and a Nazi-sympathizer. So now Bauer has further tarnished itself by publicizing the allegations.

Considering there is a protective order, it is surprising the number of documents that have been made public. I predict that Cruise will drop the lawsuit because the depositions will cause his career even more damage than Scientology leader David Miscavige has already.

 
——————–

AGPAngry Gay Pope Freed From Jail

We talked yesterday to attorney Graham Berry, who gave us an update about his client, Donald Myers — a/k/a Angry Gay Pope — who was arrested on Tuesday. AGP had done a one-man picket in front of Scientology’s Hollywood Guaranty Building and made some comments to Lissa Uvizl, who called the LAPD. But after the police watched Pope’s video, they declined to charge him. Berry tells us that Uvizl then made a citizen’s arrest for felony stalking, and Pope was taken into custody. Bail was set at $150,000 and he spent two nights in solitary confinement.

Yesterday afternoon, Pope was charged with misdemeanor stalking at a court in East Los Angeles, and Berry represented him. Here’s Berry’s account of what happened next…

The City Attorney’s Office had appointed a “special” prosecutor to handle the case. I informed him that Myers would plead not guilty, that he would not waive his speedy trial rights that we would go to trial on the first available date and that we were not interested in pleading to a lesser charge. A discussion of the relative merits of our respective cases resulted in a tentative agreement subject to judicial approval.

AGP was then brought into the courtroom and the “special” prosecutor and I requested and were granted leave to have a side bar conference with the judge. We explained our tentative agreement to the judge who said he had never approved such an agreement before, that he disagreed with such agreements (especially in cases such as this) and that he would decline to approve the disposition agreement (a type of conditional dismissal). However, the judge was willing to listen to argument on the record and to be persuaded otherwise.

I then argued the unusual circumstances of the case to the judge informing him that contrary to the charge this was not a stalking case but a First Amendment case and that AGP would otherwise be filing an anti-SLAPP motion to dismiss. The judge doubted whether I could do that in a criminal case but I assured him I had filed just such a motion in several criminal cases. Eventually I persuaded the judge of the merits of the agreement and the judge entered the following order: Time for arraignment was waived for twelve months as part of an “informal diversion.” In the meantime, AGP agreed and was ordered to stay 100 yards away from the complaining Scientology staffer and the Scientology building at 6331 Hollywood Boulevard, and to obey all laws. Assuming AGP complies with those conditions the case will be dismissed in twelve months. At that time there would no conviction, no penalties, no court costs and no continuing orders.

Hey, Pope — here’s some informal advice from the Bunker: stick to editing great videos, and leave the picketing to the youngsters!

 
——————–

Jefferson Hawkins On The “Inch Wives”

Another interesting interview with Karen de la Carriere as Jeff Hawkins discusses the women who appeared on Anderson Cooper’s 2010 series about Scientology.

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on November 8, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • Spackle Motion

    I agree with you Tony, that this statement has been misinterpreted:

    McNamara: But unfortunately, we are here and you have to answer the questions. And the question is whether you believe the published contentions that Katie Holmes left you in part to protect Suri from Scientology, whether those are false?

    Cruise: Do I believe that?

    McNamara: Do you believe that that is a false statement?

    Cruise: I believe it is a false statement.

    McNamara: And Ms. Holmes has never indicated in any way that that was one of the reasons that she left you?

    Cruise: That is — that she left me because of?

    McNamara: To protect Suri from Scientology.

    Cruise: Did she say that? That was one of the assertions, yes.

    A nice try by the attorney to set a trap there (one that the tabloids are exploiting) but Tom clearly says that he believe it is a ‘false’ assertion that Katie left him to protect Suri from Scientology, but he does agree that it was an assertion made by an unnamed press outlet (maybe the defendants? It is hard to put context to this with one snippet).

    The tabloid headlines are enjoyable to read, nonetheless.

    • Mildred Ratched

      But isn’t he saying that was one of *Katie’s* assertions? He’s saying its a false statement (that suri needs protecting) but is saying that it’s Katies false statement.

      • Minion Gayle

        That’s what it sounds like to me. That it was one of her assertions, but that he doesn’t believe it’s a true reason for the divorce.

    • IASREG

      You could interpret that as Tom believes that Katie’s statements that she was divorcing him to protect Suri from Scientology are false due to his belief that there is no need to protect Suri from Scientology. But did SHE say that? Yes, that was one of her assertions.

      • Mildred Ratched

        that’s how I read it.

      • pronoia

        That is how I read it — that even though Katie asserted that, the real reason was that she had withholds and overts and had been an SP all along.

        • IASREG

          I went to a Merle Haggard concert not too long ago and think this could be worked into an old school country song. “All My Wives Were SP’s Blues”

    • Robert Eckert

      I initially read it Tony’s way (that Tom was saying this was one of the tabloids’ assertions) but when I saw all the gossip sites reading it the other way (that Tom was admitting this was one of Katie’s assertions) I looked back at it and decided there was really no way of telling for sure.

      • tetloj

        Eaxactly. The guy can’t reliably put his thoughts into words and we are trying to interpret words…

  • Jgg2012

    I don’t know much about AGP, but again, here is Scientology’s paradox. The only good news they get is when one of there critics misbehaves or goes overboard. AGP, stick to the videos–Scientology is its own worst enemy.

  • Cat Daddy
  • Verve

    I do have to say though, I think Cruise is getting a bit of the shaft on not seeing Suri. A lot of wealthy fathers (and mothers) don’t pay much attention to their kids, send them off to boarding school, etc. But you would think as a parent you would rather give up your corporation religion than lose a child. Did he over-react on the defamation claim? Most certainly, he should have just let it go. He invoked the Barbara Streisand effect but raising a stink over this (giving it more publicity and awareness by complaining about it).

    And yay to AGP!

    • Mildred Ratched

      But do you remember all the “Nicole abandoned Bella and Connor” tabloid stories? I don’t remember Tom ever coming to her defense about that.

      • Verve

        No, I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me. I’m going to leave my post as is, though, since I’m not a “2 wrongs make a right” kind of monkey. Good catch by you on my faulty memory.

        • Mildred Ratched

          I agree two wrongs don’t make a right, for sure, and there’s nothing wrong with your post. I just have no sympathy for him because he deliberately turned his kids against their mother and then let the tabloids skewer her for loving her new family more than her “adopted kids” knowing full well she was going to have to keep her mouth shut about it.

          • Verve

            Totally agree Mildred. I’ll give people who are not outright evil (rapists, murderers) a slim crack to redeem themselves. I’m no saint, but I also never turned away from any family member, ever. And they never turned away from me when I was a drunken mess. So I guess my message is, hope for better for all involved? And I have no problem with your stance, you have a valid viewpoint and I’d back you any day.

      • Observer

        I don’t think there was any abandonment in that situation–more like the poisoning of a couple of innocent minds against SP Nicole.

        • Mildred Ratched

          that’s my point. The kids were turned against her, but she couldn’t ever come out and say that in the media, so she had to endure the “she abandoned them!” stories while Tom sat back and let it happen.

          • Observer

            Tom deserves every bit of the current airing of his dirty clam laundry.

            • Miss Tia

              KARMA!!!!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And he can’t get the stink out that metaphor by having some SeaOrg rinse it 13 times in clean water.

              Edit: I didn’t mean the metaphor stunk………..oh well, you know what I mean.

            • Observer

              *Mock cries*

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              derp

            • Narapoid

              Is that a Tom cat? Rofl!

          • Noni Mause

            You know, that is a really, really good point. He’s outraged now by the same accusations he was happy for his ex wife to endure. The CAD!!

            • Observer

              He has done more to deserve what’s being said about him. Poor Nicole got ninja dumped and slandered.

            • Noni Mause

              …and remained classy throughout. Tory Magoo commented a few days ago that she had some information that suggested Katie HAD spoken to Nicole prior to her high precision escape. I hope that’s true – Nicole quietly in the background doing something to prevent Katie being made to suffer the way that she had. Lets all raise a glass to Nicole.

            • Mildred Ratched

              I’m ashamed to admit I completely bought into it too. I knew very little about COS and had no idea about disconnection, so to me it appeared that Nicole had completely given up on being a mom to Bella and Connor, why else would her kids call her “nicole” and call Katie “mom”? It wasn’t until Marty Rathbun’s TV interview where he talked about indoctrinating them against their mother that it clicked!

            • Noni Mause

              Same here. I was shocked that she hadn’t seen them and thought she must be a cold beyotch. Now, of course, we ALL know what happened and how pre ordained it was by ‘scripture’.

            • Minion Gayle

              I don’t know why, but I never bought into it. I remember really being offended when I read a story about Katie going on and on about the kids calling her Mom. I think that was around the time that you really saw Nicole getting cut more and more from their lives. But I’d never forgotten Tom’s “she knows what she did” comments about Nicole in the divorce and how obvious it was that Nicole didn’t know what she did.

  • Mildred Ratched

    I’ve read this so many times, and all I can get from it still is that he’s saying it was Katie’s assertion (the “did she say that?”part) that she was protecting Suri from Scientology, NOT the assertion of the publications. Am I totally off with my reading comprehension?

    McNamara: And Ms. Holmes has never indicated in any way that that was one of the reasons that she left you?

    Cruise: That is — that she left me because of?

    McNamara: To protect Suri from Scientology.

    Cruise: Did she say that? That was one of the assertions, yes.

    And wow, Jeff Hawkins is so incredibly wonderful to his ex wife. I don’t think I could have offered that much grace.

  • NOLAGirl

    Damn Davey, even the hardcore believers are talking about you now.

    The husband of one of the women kicked out of the South Africa org spoke out in the comments at Rinder’s blog today.

    Better gas up the FleaBag, and get to steppin’ little man.

  • Cat Daddy
    • OrangySky

      Always funny, but as we all know here, Xenu is the enemy, not the “God” of Scientology.

      So many non-Bunkerites make that mistake, *Sigh.*

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Every good yarn back in the ’30s had to have a villain.

      • tetloj

        Part of me shudders when I read the false representation – the other thinks, all mockery is good.

  • Cat Daddy
    • Verve

      I’ve seen this several times, and at first I thought it was funny, but then I realized with all the money he has, it must be something that cannot be corrected. As a kid who had to wear braces for 4 years, I just feel bad for him for that. All the other insane things, not so much.

      • Minion Gayle

        I’m still just creeped right out by it.

        • Verve

          True, true, it does look funky. Especially if you’ve seen the movie “The Night Flyer.”

  • Cat Daddy
    • Verve

      Yeah, this one seems to be true. Sadly.

  • SandiCorrena

    Leading story on TMZ live!!!!!

  • SandiCorrena

    Harvey says he cannot imagine that TC will win this lawsuit! They’re saying his pride is taking him down!

    • IASREG

      Pride brings many people down. I was reading about Franklin Graham and his father and wrote a little post for the more conservative crowd about Franklin Graham and his abandonment of his father’s message and legacy. Some really liked it, Teavangelist types HATED it. When you have to swallow your pride it often goes down with with a lot of mucus and salty tears.

      • Missionary Kid

        IMO, Franklin is showing a side of Billy that he hid. Billy was a politician, and he knew what would get him access to the rich and powerful. Not bad for a bible thumpin’ tent evangelist who owes his career to Randolph Hearst.

        • IASREG

          True, there are those Nixon tapes as well. Billy did, to his credit, evolve to the point that he refused to participate at segregated events sending a message of inclusiveness and tolerance. Franklin controls the message now and his message is not one of tolerance.

          • Missionary Kid

            The only thing that I respected about Billy was that he managed to pretty much stay out of the financial scandals in his early days after he was accused of financial irregularities. He turned the finances of his operation over to an independent board. They were not like most televangelists’ boards, and they were truly independent.

            He still did very well financially. Apparently VERY well. According to people who live close by, his family has a very large, expensive, nice compound.

            • Robert Eckert

              This I did not realize. I thought he was one of the few evangelists who didn’t pile up huge heaps of moolah.

            • Missionary Kid

              There are other ways in which ministers can acquire a lot of wealth. There often was a ministerial discount that is given when purchasing things, like cars. Also, there are people who are supporters who want to curry favor who give personal gifts or let the minister in on sweet deals for land, etc.

              This is the kind of thing that people will do for a powerful or well-known minister who they consider special, because the minister also gives them a bit of access to other rich and powerful people.

              One thing that could be in Graham’s favor is that he could have bought the land a long time ago, when land prices were much cheaper.

              In any event, Billy is not a poor man.

    • Sandy

      I was a little surprised. Harvey usually stays clear of Scientology. But, he did a smack down today. Granted, not about the cherch, but the advisability of this suit.

  • Cat Daddy
    • Observer

      That new face of his kinda creeps me out.

      • Sidney18511

        I know obs. Where the HELL did it come from?

      • OrangySky

        Are you kidding? I’d kill to know the name of his plastic surgeon – that is REALLY good work (and plastic surgery on men is usually not the most subtle.) I think it was that guy in Brazil who costs a million dollars a facelift or something. I heard he also refined Katie’s nose.

        • Observer

          It still creeps me out. It looks unnatural to me.

          • Mooser

            Why on earth would an actor do anything which might compromise the mobility of their face? So they can look like an animatronic mannequin? Never have understood that.

            • OrangySky

              Because he wants to be a leading man forever. He never wants to become a character.
              Hey, Stallone is still trying! (And look at his face as a cautionary tale. But he didn’t go all the way to Brazil.)

        • TXCowgirl

          Brazilian Dr. Ivo Pitanguy, who is considered the father of cosmetic surgery. Here’s a gossip link loosely tying the two:

          http://www.hollywood.com/news/celebrities/11668634/is-tom-cruise-the-patient-of-brazilian-plastic-surgeon-dr-ivo-pitanguy

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Are you making fun of Grant Cardone?

          I hope so.

          • OrangySky

            In a word – yes!

  • IASREG

    The story has indeed gone viral. It is ebola viral. While Scientologists, particularly Sea Org, are insulated against media there are public Scientologists who read media and almost certainly there are Scientologists in good standing that read Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker. They read Rinder’s blog and Marty’s as well and ESMB and probably more. In every social group there will be gossip and that gossip often spins as it goes person to person becoming exaggerated, often to an even worse story. Even the Sea Org is going to know about this story before the events take place. Merchants of Chaos have stormed the ecclesiastic palace.

  • http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/author/richardhorgan Richard Horgan

    Great reporting Tony, as usual. I am especially fascinated by McNamara’s framing of that big TheWrap/Bauer exclusive.

  • Bella Legosi

    So Tom’s recall is for shit! Or is selective Total Recall in LRons Toolkit? Wow……wish I had more time! Be back for more later!

    • Observer

      *waves*

    • Jgg2012

      An OT5 should have perfect recall.

      • IASREG

        A Clear is supposed to have perfect recall.

      • OrangySky

        So what OT is Tom? Is he OT VIII? Or as someone corrected me earlier, OT VII because DM has stalled him on the Bridge (the better to prevent his utter disappointment?)

        Or is he OTV?

        • IASREG

          He is at least OTVII. Since Miscavige is long stalled on OTVII his BFF is probably stalled there as well.

        • Jgg2012

          He went OT 5 a while ago, and may be higher now. In any case, he went clear and has perfect recall.

          • OrangySky

            Except for court cases and depositions. I guess they “handle” recalls of court cases and depositions only on OTVIII?

            • Jgg2012

              Court cases, depositions, your name is Lisa McPherson, you stopped giving them more money, you had doubts about LRH or you didn’t want an abortion. Among other exceptions.

  • Jgg2012

    I don’t know what others think, but if one person s id “every inch” it would sound convincing to me. When 3 people say it at the same interview, its obviosly rehearsed.

    • SandiCorrena

      Howard Hughes “overly protective” mom was excessively thorough in checking over every inch of Howard’s anatomy for disease or infection as a child; I doubt the ex-wives were as thorough as all that but hey ladies good to have a goal I guess…..future/current spouses beware!

      • TXCowgirl

        At minute 3:55 of the video, Jenny Linson (Tom DeVocht”s ex-wife) talks about knowing every inch of Tom, sleeping with him…..while holding out her hands about 3 feet apart. Talk about a big fish story. Just sayin’ :-)

    • Sidney18511

      For some crazy reason I just really really love the term “The Inch Wives”. It’s just so…..perfect. But then again it could just be one of my engrams acting up.

      • Mooser

        My engrams don’t bother me much, but there are some troubling enigmas around.

    • IASREG

      He should have countered with “Let’s test that statement and your ability at total recall. Is there hair in his perineum area?”

    • Interested

      If they were sleep deprived, or if they are sent to different areas to work, or if …. When in the hell did they have time to know “every inch of his body”

      • Jgg2012

        because they have Super Powers–perfect memory, perfect intelligence.

        • texasborn

          perfect eyesight

        • Interested

          Oh yeas, and they can exteriorise!

  • Sidney18511

    I sent a letter to the mayor of Clearwater the other day regarding the street closures/permits requested by the COS. In the header I put Scientology-Criminal Organization. He responded back today with this:

    Thank you for your communication regarding the Church of Scientology’s request
    pertaining to the scheduled opening of its new religious headquarters, the FLAG
    Building.

    While I realize the Church of Scientology is one of the city’s largest taxpayers
    and many of its members are active, law-abiding citizens of the City of
    Clearwater, the church leadership’s disregard of city procedures and ordinances
    is bothersome. I would not want my church to act in such a way, as I believe a
    church and a faith should set examples of which the entire community, not just
    its followers, can be proud.

    However, the City of Clearwater also attempts to be fair and reasonable in its
    review of all applications for special events. It will not treat a resident any
    different than the Church of Scientology or any other institution. While I have
    already expressed my concern over the complete closure of South Ft. Harrison for
    the entire weekend, other aspects of the opening can possibly be coordinated. I
    remain hopeful that the Church of Scientology will also cooperate so that it can
    finally have the opening of its FLAG Building without totally disrupting the
    rest of the residents of Clearwater.

    With best wishes and warm, personal regards, I am

    Sincerely,

    –george n. cretekos
     
      George N. Cretekos
      Mayor, City of Clearwater
      727-562-4050
      george.cretekos@myclearwater.com

     

    • OrangySky

      Same response as last week.

  • M Diggs

    I don’t think I’ve found a post that outright explains Tony’s thoughts on why he prefers not to get into discussion of or defining Scientology as a “cult” that “brainwashes”. I’m sure I’ve missed some post where he’s discussed this in more detail. Just curious if anyone knows that full argument. Personally, I find that learning about cognitive dissonance and cult brainwashing techniques fascinating, but that’s just me.

    From what I can gather based on random points Tony’s made in various posts I think this is what he’s saying? (but obviously looking for more clarification from other readers)…
    While the argument that Hubbard built a hypnotic/brainwashing technique and that it’s a “cult” might hold water in a dialogue forum – the most important thing to keep sight of/bottom line is its an organization harming and enslaving people. So to achieve the best result in bringing them down (especially where courts are involved), its wise to avoid engaging in any argument of cult vs. religion as it is a difficult task and eventually can’t stand up under the scrutiny of law. (Because the subject of religion itself is very long and complicate). So chip away at them steadily by calling them out for their most basic in-arguable offenses to society…. (am i close?)

    • IASREG

      He is a professional journalist so he must retain objectivity.

    • SandiCorrena

      Because the US of A says it’s a religion

      • M Diggs

        yes but even in this post he mentions how he prefers not to call it “brainwashing” and i am wondering why that is.

        • Graham

          As I understand it there’s no agreed definition of “brainwashing”. It’s too vague a term to be useful.

      • ze moo

        The IRS only granted tax exempt organization (501c) status. It may not declare anything a ‘religion’.

      • DamOTclese2

        The United States is not allowed to classify anything as a religion or not, the United States does not class the Scientology crime syndicate as religion. The IRS granted some of the syndicate’s fake fronts and businesses as tax exempt with the absurd notion they are a charity.

        • SandiCorrena

          so America doesn’t consider it a religion?

          • Robert Eckert

            “America” as a government does not “consider” things religions. The IRS makes determinations as to which organizations are sufficiently charitable to qualify for tax exemptions. Alas, Scientology was granted such a status.

            • SandiCorrena

              when then a church and not just a “non-profit”? Can any non-profit decide to call themselves church?

            • Robert Eckert

              Anybody can call themselves anything. We have free speech.

            • SandiCorrena

              so the correct term for what they are is just 501c status?

            • Robert Eckert

              That would be the technically accurate way to speak of it.

            • SandiCorrena

              Thank you!

            • OrangySky

              Robert and DamOT are right, Sandi – but CO$ has plastered all over the propaganda the fact that the United States of America has ‘officially’ deemed them a religion.
              It’s a misdirect if not an outright lie. So what else is new?

    • Graham

      I think the argument is: it doesn’t matter whether you call it a “cult” or a “religion” or a “library” or an “automobile factory”. The label’s not important. What matters is what it actually DOES. If it breaks up families and robs people of their savings then that’s the issue and that’s what needs to be the focus. Discussing the precise label diverts energy from the main task.

    • Tony Ortega

      Graham’s right. It’s a matter of resources. I’ll let someone else spend time discussing whether Scientology’s influence over its members is “brainwashing” or not. And I’ll let other sites discuss (endlessly, and pointlessly) whether Scientology is a “cult” or a “church” or a “religion.” To me “cult” is a completely useless word, and I have no patience for arguing over it.

      For example, was it a “cult” or a “religion” that forced Laura DeCrescenzo to have an abortion at 17?

      I can’t think of a bigger waste of time than such a question. The one we should be asking is how does Scientology — whatever you want to call it — get away with forcing young girls to have abortions for decades? And what’s going to happen to Laura’s lawsuit now that it’s moving to trial?

      Again, I know that other sites do want to wrestle with those questions, but I only have so much time. I want to spend it more productively.

      • M Diggs

        droppin wisdom bombs. HEAR, HEAR!

  • Jgg2012

    One problem with tabloids (as opposed to mainstream media) is that their headlines are conclusory. If they had said “Did Tom abandon Suri?” or “is Scientology preventing him from seeing Suri?” they would not be making a statement. Even a statement like “Cruise has not seen Suri in person in 44 days” is a lot less critical than “he abandoned her”. He still won’t win, though, to the extent that it was not “knowingly false”.

    • SandiCorrena

      I think from the perspective of the magazine it was more akin to saying Suri is feeling abandoned by Daddy, from the perspective and logic of a child in that situation of not seeing their parent for that extended period

      • Jgg2012

        Yes, it’s a problem for Suri, and arguably TC should have ditched Scientology for her sake, or at least become an Indie, so the gist of the story has merit. Of course, TC did not abandon the Church and is so close to Davey that he won’t, and Suri is a loser as a result.

  • LaLa104

    Uh you know, cause we just know….

  • loulai

    I actually felt sorry for Cruise, reading this. Certainly, he does not want to be perceived by the public as abandoning Suri. But more than that, it seems to me he actually does love the child and feels a mixture of remorse, guilt, frustration, and fear (of Scientology) at what has occurred.

  • Garry Scarff

    Thanks for the compliment that I’m a “youngster”, Tony. :-) I spoke in length with AGP’s attorney and was floored by the lack of coordination by the prosecutor’s office in bringing this case against the Pope. Graham Berry was informed that AGP’s arraignment would be held in the downtown criminal court (where OJ Simpson’s trial was held), he waited for an hour for the judge to arrive, then was told that AGP’s arraignment was ACTUALY being held at a separate courthouse – the East LA Court, so Graham had to jump in his car & drive to the other courthouse, where he spent hours waiting to see the prosecutor’s file on AGP. It turned out that AGP’s file was “missing” and that Graham was able to only get his hands on a few notes. Graham eventually got the file in mid-afternoon where he learned that the District Attorney was not interested in pursuing the case, so the City Attorney assigned a special prosecutor, who Graham said, was very professional & saw this case for what it is.. a Rick Moxon-manufactured crock. Scientology attorney Rick Moxon has a long history of lying & manufacturing bad faith cases.. he’s lucky he practices in California. Anyone where else, he would have been disbarred long ago. That said, AGP should have never solo protested the building where Lissa Uvizl worked.. he knew better.. and he’s been repeatedly warned against it by his attorney & others, but AGP marches to the beat of his own drummer. So, his arrest on a phony stalking charge was no surprise. He walked right into the whole the cult had dug for him. He needs to stick to editing videos.

    • ze moo

      AGP’s level of ‘confront’ is very high. He is very effective at his rants and clam interactions. They will set such traps again.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYyx3CBSO_0

      • Garry Scarff

        One can be very effective at clam interactions without blindly walking into a set-up. This is AGP’s 4th arrest in 4 years in a cult-related case. Thanks to Graham Berry, he is a free man, If Graham had not been able to represent him (recovering from eye surgery), and AGP was stuck with a public defender, ignorant of Scientology antics, AGP would still be sitting in a jail cell. Kudos to Graham Berry for saving AGP’s ass once again…again…again.

    • DamOTclese2

      “…but AGP marches to the beat of his own drummer…”

      Yes, and anyone near him when he finally gets in to serious trouble due to his IRL stupidity is going to get splattered by the consequences of AGP’s antics. The crime syndicate will file charges against all human rights advocates, protesters, and free speech protesters if AGP is among them and does something truly stunningly stupid.

    • NOLAGirl

      Thanks for the info Garry. BTW, I’m a very big fan of your YouTube page. Keep up the great work!! Wishing you nothing but the best. :)

      • Garry Scarff

        Thank you, NOLAGirl. :-)

  • J. Swift

    Tony noted, “Canup adds that Scientology often tries to cast itself as a victim. Finn finds that an interesting interpretation of the facts. (And so do we.)”

    I agree with Canup on this point.

    IMO, if people realized the extent to which the Church of Scientology loves to play the victim – and even wallows in it at times — then they would better understand the entire Cultic structure and group-think of Scientology.

    “Victim” is one of the Cult’s most sanctimonious, phony, disingenuous, and profitable “valences” and they use it all the time. Whenever you see Scientologists playing victim you can bet that one of two things have occurred:

    1. They have just been caught doing something very dirty or criminal and are setting up damage control. Look at the fallout from Operation Snow White: The Church committed numerous felonies to which all defendants
    stipulated and were then sentenced to prison. Yet, the Church portrayed itself as the victim of enemies within (the “GO crims) and enemies without (the evil US Gov’t). Never mind that Miscavige put the old GO Crims back to work. The Church was a victim.

    2. The Church plays victim to raise money — and it usually related to point 1 above.

    • Noni Mause

      Totally agree that they play the victim card. This results, IMHO, in the biggest boo-boo the media makes – which is to go easy on the hard follow up questions that ask for detailed explanations. The victim card can be overplayed, however, and the more information that comes to light, the less powerful this card becomes.

      • J. Swift

        Noni Mause, that is exactly it: The media fails to follow up with the hard questions when the Church recoils into it’s patented victim game.

        Tom Cruise is an aggrieved father,– for what father wants to be accused of abandoning his child? — and yet in his deposition Cruise is reflexively playing the Scientology victim whose minority religion is so misunderstood when it comes to the Suppressive Person and Disconnection doctrines.

        “It is an oversimplification,” Cruise protests to attorney McNamara. And yet it is not an oversimplification at all. The hateful SP and Disconnections are simple and easily understood.

        Nevertheless, Cruise will continue to play the victim of a media group he himself has Fair Gamed by smearing them as Nazis.

        In his deposition, Cruise shows us the hypocrisy that is so typical of Scientology.

        • OrangySky

          It’s really a tool of the sociopath, to do a 180 degree flip and project the victimization on him or herself.

          And the media is a toothless old dog these days. False equivalencies everywhere. That’s why they accept such statements from Cruise and Scientology.

          I like the video of the Inch Wives (or The Harpies) and the way Anderson Cooper handled them. He was no obviously biased, but his questions were brilliant.

    • DamOTclese2

      Yeah, the FBI and other law enforcement individuals were all violating Hubbard’s freedom of religion. Every organized crime syndicate should be allowed to commit any crimes and any act of treason they wish as part of their First Amendment rights.

      • Mooser

        “Religious Freedom Restoration Acts” across the United States in an
        effort to commit Christanic/Islamic theocracy against the United States
        in public schools”

        Learn something new here every day. So the Moslems are in it with the Republicans and the Christanics. I shoulda known it’d be something like that. We must not allow theocracy to be committed!

        • DamOTclese2

          There is zero difference between Christianity and Islam. None.

          • Mooser

            Did I say there was either a similarity or difference between the two? I think some Christians have better music, but I admit I am completely in the dark about Islam’s liturgical music, so that’s hardly dispositive

            • ze moo

              There are no organs in the mosque. No one on drums playing ‘little drummer boy’.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Really? Or is this just hyperbole?

    • OrangySky

      I have read over at both Marty’s and Mikes Indies who are in “decompression process”, admitting that yeah, LRH did this unwise thing, and LRH did this kinda sorta evil thing BUT…poor LRH was persecuted all his life! People were really trying to destroy him and Scientology! So, that explains it.

      Ummmm……first, ask WHY were people trying to catch LRH and destroy Scientology?

      Because from the very beginning it was a scam and from the very beginning it hurt people.

  • Noni Mause

    Ummm…. Tom Cruise calls scientology a ‘minority religion’. How can it be that if it is the ‘fastest growing religion on the planet’?

    • SandiCorrena

      ikr!

    • DamOTclese2

      Yeah, over 8 or 10 million “parishioners” with 1.7 million joining-up every year according to his BFF David Miscavige. Why is it a “minority religion” which it’s beating the Mormon hate cult in membership? The Mormons is not generally considered a “minority religion” and yet they have some 10 million followers.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      How indeed???

    • Tory Christman

      Just like Hubbard..he always had a “policy” for the right side, and a “tech buliton” for the Left.
      Both were always covered,one way or the other. However the truth is, with the Net…they no longer
      can have BOTH. HA HA OSA Ops: EPIC FAIL ONCE MORE!!

      • Narapoid

        Stick it in their eye Tory Baby!

  • John P.

    This afternoon’s post on my blog is the first “Work in Progress” note. That’s where I ask everyone for help, whether that’s ideas, research of your own, or your story that fills in the details of how Scientology operates. Later, I’ll circle back after taking into account your contributions and publish a document listing the big questions, and the sub-questions that spring to mind.

    The first thing you can help with is to flesh out the list of big questions to answer about Scientology. How many members? How much money are they making? What happens if Miscavige flees?

    Your thoughts and contributions are what will make this work more valuable than anything I can do on my own.

    http://www.johnpcapitalist.com/2013/11/work-in-progress-what-are-the-big-questions/

    Thanks,

    –John P

  • aurora50

    This is what is currently on the front page of Google News:

    My Work As Actor Is As Hard As Fighting In Afghanistan…
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/11/08/tom-cruise-my-work-as-actor-is-as-hard-as-fighting-in-afghanistan/

    Talk about foot-bullets!

  • Mildred Ratched

    The Anderson Cooper Ex wives club is so fascinating to me. I admire Jeff for how he talks about his ex, but it’s interesting how he describes Jenny Devocht as being sociopathic, I wonder if Tom D. thinks the same about her? And Marty has been pretty kind towards Anne, but IMO, Jenna Miscavige paints Mr. Anne Rathbun as the most evil villain in her memoir. And Kathy Rinder seems the most mellow one out of the bunch, but that recording of her going Ape-shit on Mike at the doctor’s office is insane! I could watch these ladies and Tommy Davis 50 more times and still be enthralled.

    • pronoia

      Jenny is in a class of her own. According to Jenna Miscavige:

      “In fact they blamed 99% of these things on Marty Rathbun (may he R.I.P), Mike Rinder, Tom Devocht and Dan Koon (of all people!). This is despite the fact that Jenny single handedly physically did not allow me to get on the plane to be with my parents when I was 12 years old after reading me a long excerpt of KSW. That Angie was witness every week, if not responsible for the fact that all of the minors at CW who were only schooled once a week.”

      http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/scientology-contacts-jenna-miscavige-hill/

      There is more about Jenny DeVocht in her book.

      Edit — note that this occurred and was written when Marty Rathbun was still “missing” and presumed dead by many people.

      • Mildred Ratched

        She was quite feisty with AC, trying to shatter his suppression no doubt.

      • OrangySky

        Love Jenna! xo

    • Jefferson Hawkins

      I knew Cathy Rinder for many years, since the Apollo Days. She was always a real sweetheart.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Does Mike agree? today?

  • aurora50

    Curious coincidence: Katie and Suri, are in South Africa this week!

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/tom-cruise-insists-not-abandon-2691969

    • OrangySky

      See! LRH was right! All those South African Whales who were expelled – they were getting ‘infected’ by Katie’s horrible SP-ness! And they didn’t even know it!
      Wow, that SP/PTS tech is powerful.

      • tetloj

        She’s so good she can infect the Joburg crew from Cape Town.

        • OrangySky

          She’s the SP of SP’s because she pulled one over on Big Being #3!

  • http://www.anetteiren.com/ Anette Iren Johansen

    Cruise: … It’s a minority religion. Scientology is the fastest growing religion, right? What an invalidation.

    • Miss Tia

      I’m sure his BFF is screaming in his face about that slip up there!!

  • monkeyknickers

    So . . . . what does it take to make a “citizen’s arrest” exactly? If Sci can do it, surely I can. Why am I asking? Oh . . . . . no special reason. at all. Definitely not ANYthing that has to with people around here driving REALLY REALLY slow in the fast lane and thus causing me to hemorrhage out my eyes while simultaneously giving me apoplexy and cruelly sucking away my will to live. I just . . . . wondered. Theoretically. Also if someone could point me in the direction of, say, a store that might sell handcuffs AND baseball bats?

    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

    SLOWER TRAFFIC KKKKEEEEEEPPPP RIGHT.!

    Is it really all that hard?

    Heave. Sigh.
    :)

    • Sibs

      Did you hear about this back in July? The rabbi who was pulling people over?
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/rabbi-alfredo-borodowski-_n_3616120.html

      • monkeyknickers

        HAHA! No I didn’t! Note to self: pay attention to clearly cautionary tale. :))

    • Miss Tia

      A citizens arrest doesn’t count unless it’s like this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmM

      • Aslansown

        One of the absolute classic scenes in the history of American TV!

      • monkeyknickers

        That was AWESOME. Jesus, I’d like to citizen’s arrest the asshole who cuffed AGP

    • Robert Eckert

      OT, but here is an article about the Redskins’ history that you might find interesting:

      http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/11/nazis-desegregating-washington-nfl-football-team

      • monkeyknickers

        Wow that WAS incredibly interesting – thank you Robert. I didn’t know at ALL that there was an American Nazi Party, for one. WHAT an interesting article. When was it written?

        • Robert Eckert

          The article is quite recent, of course the events are not. The American Nazi Party was a personality cult around a figure named George Lincoln Rockwell, who was approximately as lunatic as Lyndon LaRouche, but he died a long time ago (LaRouche, alas, is still alive though very old; MarionDee who posts here occasionally and was around this evening lost a husband to that cult). Of course, there are plenty of neo-Nazis still around, but Rockwell’s party was something else.

          • monkeyknickers

            Going down a rabbit hole now. THANKS A LOT. Jeez. :)))

          • Kitz

            Neo-Nazis are unfortunately still around. There are a few places where wearing my hammer in the open can cause unwanted attention.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Unless you are in Australia… in which case it is “SLOW TRAFFIC KEEP LEFT”… :) just saying… :p

      • monkeyknickers

        HAHAHAHA.!

      • monkeyknickers

        BUT DO THEY HAVE THE VERY CLEAR SIGNS??

        :)

  • Noni Mause

    I have no doubt that Tom Cruise loves his daughter very much and was genuinely outraged by the accusations of abandonment, especially since he ACTUALLY experienced being abandoned by his father. Given the heat scientology has been taking about disconnection, I wonder how involved Davey and the Scilons were in helping Cruise to make his decision to sue. Cruise is a major asset for them that they would want to protect. They WOULD NOT want his wholesome image tarnished. If Middle America believed that Tom “I AM a scientologist” Cruise was a bad daddy, it would really hurt his ability to be a show pony for the wonders of scientology.

    • Narapoid

      No doubt he loves his baby girl and the rags shitty for the sake of sales, but how can he still have contact and others have been forced to leave their loved ones and friends?

      The horrors and crimes of Scientology are: Disconnection, Fair Game, Coerced Abortions, Fraud and over-regging, human trafficking. But disconnection is the ugliest and most brutal.

      TC gets special treatment in $cientology because he is “special”. Anyone else? Disconnected.

      • Noni Mause

        Yes. EXACTLY. The scilons have walked into their own trap here. If they prove he hasn’t had contact then the world will see ‘disconnection’. If they prove he’s having contact with her, public scientologists will start asking ‘why NO disconnection?’ Its really a no-win situation for the scilons.

        • Narapoid

          We should thank him for tilting at this legal windmill. His case now brings Disconnection and a whole lot of attention, The Garcia’s covers fraud, Mosey’s Fairgaming/harassment, and Laura’s, Abortion and human trafficking.

          All are in court now. Thanks TC! *Thumbs up*

  • RMycroft

    Tom Cruise Compares His Job to a Tour in Afghanistan, Says Scientology Played Role in Divorce Kate Stanhope, Nov 8, 2013, TV Guide

    In a September deposition obtained by TMZ.com, Cruise compared shooting on location to serving a tour in Afghanistan. “That’s what it feels like. And certainly on this last movie, it was brutal. It was brutal.” The 51-year-old movie star then went on to claim that the physical training he does for his films are harder than training for the Olympics. “There is difficult physical stamina and preparation. Sometimes I’ve spent months, a year, and sometimes two years preparing for a single film,” he said. “A sprinter for the Olympics, they only have to run two races a day. When I’m shooting, I could potentially have to run 30, 40 races a day, day after day.”

    Can’t. Control. Fist. Of. Death!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      There is none so blind…

    • Mooser

      Gosh, I’m so impressed that Tom Cruise feels such a deep empathy for the victims of the War on Afghanistan.

      • SandiCorrena

        can’t you just see him telling a soldier – You don’t know what brutal is! Big jerk!

        • Mooser

          I was more wondering if Tom wanted to run a footrace with the missile from a US drone, DU armament, or sprint away from flechettes or white phosphorus .

        • RMycroft

          On Planet Tom, he really was a Navy pilot hero.

        • texasborn

          You put it mighty nicely there. I can think of lots of other things I’d call him.

      • Barbara Angel

        Too bad he feels nothing for the victims of $cos!!!

    • aquaclara

      This is really a huge insult to every service person out there, as well as to anyone who has family who have served. Tom Cruise is NOT serving a tour in Afghanistan. He is flying on cushy aircraft, and fed the best of foods. He is responsible to no one, and makes millions more than any service person. His life is never at risk, and he is not serving any higher purpose other than to go remove his own damn body thetans, which matters nada to the rest of us.

      It’s bad enough that his religion uses fake navy uniforms, but this comparison of life as a movie star to a hero serving his country in war is just too much. How delusional can one be?

      Clearly, patriotism and honor are not a part of the tone scale, either.

      • Mooser

        “How delusional can one be?”

        Gosh, you don’t think the US involvement in Afghanistan answers that question? Oh well, one year you are the “equivalent of America’s Founding Fathers” and the next, you are the dreaded Taliban. That’s the way it goes.

        • DamOTclese2

          :) I smile. The Soviet Union learned the same lesson that dozens of countries have learned over the centuries, it was just George W. Bush’s turn to learn the lesson, is all. :)

          Let’s do this: Let’s send this asshole Tom Cruise to Afghanistan to serve along side real soldiers, see how long the pansy lasts.

          • texasborn

            How long do you think he’d be there before the soldiers locked him out of the bunker?

          • RMycroft

            I believe that Alexander the Great bypassed Afghanistan. He was a smart kid.

          • Robert Eckert

            “The Soviet Union learned the same lesson that dozens of countries have learned over the centuries” I don’t want to go off on a political tangent, but historically it is a myth of recent invention that Afghanistan is a problem. The British were the first great power to run into trouble there, and the Soviets only the second. Other conquerors from Alexander the Great (who left a general in charge who founded a Greek dynasty that lasted centuries) to Timur the Lame (whose descendants remained kings until the 1970’s) including lesser-known powers like the Kushans, White Huns, and Ghaznavids, rolled over it without a hitch.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, that’s one shit-hole best left to itself. We want our Aussie boys back home too. Bad luck we now have a suburb or two taken over by Afghan’s and the men standing around in their night gowns with tea towels wrapped around their heads, are creepy. The ladies in head to toe burqua’s make me cringe, how we did we inherit them. Walking along a down town St in Melbourne Australia, looking in the windows of the takeout they have half a roast goat sitting in the warmer??? I’m a vego so its a double whammy of yuckyness.

      • DamOTclese2

        It is a massive insult! When he was shooting on board the Enterprise, he was an arrogant prick
        according to the actual fly boys and machine crews on board the flattop. Tom does not deserve to hang with actual men and women who serve what they feel is their duty, he’s zero connected to the harsh realities outside of his air-conditioned dressing room.

        • tetloj

          There goes Top Gun II (thank goodness)

      • texasborn

        +1 billion

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Exactly so. This is an insult to all those who really do serve our country and to the families who have lost brave men and women in service to keep the rest of us safe.

        • RMycroft

          Yes.

          • Guest

            I thought people were exaggerating when they posted “I just spewed coffee all over my keyboard.”

    • DamOTclese2

      Wow. Just wow. Tom really stepped his Thetan Foot in to the dog poop again. Sweet baby Xenu watch what happens in the next couple of weeks as this gets picked up and carried outside of tabloids.

    • texasborn

      Yeah, I think my son-in-law would take issue. Unless, of course, Mr. Cruise was the recipient of missile attacks on a mountain in Afghanistan. My daughter might take unkindly to it, too, since she was here taking care of two daughters while said son-in-law was being fired at. EDIT: Someone needs to kick that man’s butt. I’ll volunteer my daughter, who is very much an Army Wife.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      O. M. G.

    • tetloj

      What.A.Knob!

  • Miss Tia

    “Above all, don’t lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and
    listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the
    truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself
    and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”

    — Fyodor Dostoyevsky

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      While Scientology has extensive Tech concerning Lying, Love doesn’t even rate an appearance on the Tone Scale…

      • Miss Tia

        yeah and that doesn’t ring any bells with any of them????

        • Mooser

          There where bells, on the hill, but they never heard them ringing. They never heard them at all!

          • Miss Tia

            Till there was you

            Then there was music and wonderful roses

            They tell me in sweet fragrant meadows of dawn and dew

            There was love all around

            But I never heard it singing

            No I never heard it at all

            Till there was you

            • Mooser

              Gosh darn it, they don’t write ’em like that anymore! But anyway, don’t laugh at my jokes too much.

            • Miss Tia

              :) no, they don’t write ’em like that no more….

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ePSJ44Fiw

    • Mooser

      … And having no respect he ceases to love.”

      That is a serious consequence to risk.I am not going to risk my marriage over telling myself I look better ah, more distinguished, with thinning hair. I will just have to stop believing it somehow.

    • DamOTclese2

      I think that everyone lies to themselves, only small children look at the world and see what they are looking at, their eyes, ears, and brains don’t filter reality until their parents, teachers, priests, you-name-it start programming them to believe lies, to wish-away stark reality.

      And to be sure, if everyone were truthful to themselves, damn near everyone would be screaming most of the time. :) Because reality really is enough to make anyone “angry, real angry.”

      • Mooser

        “I think that everyone lies to themselves, only small children look at the world and see what they are looking at”

        Maybe, but their scalp, if read from sloping forehead to pate doesn’t read “MO” like mine does.

      • Miss Tia

        that’s very true….i think though a lot of my brain due to my childhood (well lack of one) i do see the world as a child—non-filtered….i was forced to go to church at a young age and i’d sit there and argue with them—that’s when i say i became an atheist because i never could believe and they could never answer a question i had…..

        and you know what?? i am angry a lot of the time!! :) i scream a lot at my computer monitor!! though i do keep my temper in check in public, i make snarky comments to rude people though…..

        and what IS reality—if you want to get real philosophical…..isn’t what we create?? what’s one reality isn’t yours….is theirs a lie? or is yours? ya know???

    • tetloj

      Or, as Shakespeare said (via Polonious), ‘Above all else, to thine own self be true. Then it must follow, as the night the day, though can be false to no man’.

  • Aslansown

    If this has been posted already, I apologize, but it looks like TBT just put up a new article about 5 minutes ago: http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/clearwater-issues-conditions-scientology-must-meet-to-hold-its-events/2151572

    • Graham

      “The city also warned the church that if it violates the city’s conditions and police must be used to “establish control,” the church will be billed $50 per hour for each officer.”

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      EXCERPT:
      “They are one of our largest taxpayers, but that doesn’t mean they are entitled to special treatment,” [Clearwater Mayor] Cretekos said. “Hopefully, they will understand it is a two-way street.”

      Except from Friday evening November 15 to Sunday morning November 17…

      • Aslansown

        I see what you did there! hahahaha

    • Mooser

      The mayor just loves to lean on the “biggest taxpayer” thing. I wonder, when it’s added up, whether that is true. Scientology is loath to tithe.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Huffing and puffing.
      The City is holding firm on not taking down a streetlight mast arm that can easily be shooped out the stupid picture.
      They must obtain permits for the illegal structures,…that I am sure the city will expedite.

      Caved on everything else.
      Big whoop.

      • Aslansown

        I agree that they will still get pretty much everything they want when they want it and just pay fines.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Well, I feel much better about the email I sent to the Mayor a couple of hours ago.

          Let’s just say…I doubt I will be receiving a canned response.

          • Aslansown

            What did you say?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Actually I am kind of embarrassed because it was sort of assholish on steroids.
              But My subject line began with: NO CANNED RESPONSE Please-Scientology.
              And then I just had a lil hissy fit.
              I would share, but I am not very proud.

            • Aslansown

              No problem. I was just wondering why you said you wouldn’t be receiving a canned response!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              The one thing I did say that I meant…was that I would make sure to influence the removal of 3 different business conferences from the area because of the Cities refusal to clamp down on the COS and the flagrant disregard for the rules and regulations of the City of Clearwater.
              And I meant it and I intend to do it.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Please share anyway… I live vicariously through you people on the $ci-front. I will continue to read down in the hopes someone else convinced you to post it already. :)

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        If they shoop so much as a dandelion they know the Internets will go ape. That ship has SAILED, baby!

      • DamOTclese2

        No no! It wasn’t a surrender, no the city is “working with Scientology” in an order “to come to a mutual agreement.” Yeah. That’s it. It only looks like total and abject surrender and special treatment. :)

        • TXCowgirl

          I’m imagining a shoop of Davey-boy on a broomstick, writing in smoky letters, “Surrender Clearwater” a la the Wizard of Oz.

          To add: of course, while flying over the tent camp.

          • ze moo

            DAvey is more of the flying monkey type of OZ inhabitant.

          • DamOTclese2

            :) That would be awesome. :) Some how Tommy Davis needs to be one of the flying monkeys.

      • Eclipse-girl

        The streets were not completely shut down for 3 days.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I can read between the lines.
          They are shutting down Fort Harrison for a good portion of the weekend during tourist season.
          And that remark about the police?
          Where do you think that came from?
          Sarah Heller complaining about the evil and dangerous protesters and that the city would be on the hook if they didn’t close the streets.

          Here is what happened in the meeting.
          If you don’t shut down the streets to keep the COS safe from religious persecution and something bad happens, it will be the Cities fault for not protecting the COS from these evil bigots.
          So they get the shutdown and a lame threat that,darn it..we are going to charge you for the police protection.
          Well duh!

          City spins it as: See how tough we are. Shit fuck these people piss me off.

          Sorry, I know you were being facetious, but what a nice jump ramp you gave me.

          • OrangySky

            Do you think this will thwart the protesters?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Um, No….I R 1.

              :-)

          • Eclipse-girl

            I will always give a you a jump ramp….

    • Miss Tia

      Again, and maybe this was answered in another post where it was asked on another day buried under lots of comments, but what does CO$ pay taxes on?? they keep referring to them as the city’s largest tax payer and i’d think they’re the biggest tax dodger…..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Property taxes would be my guess.

        • Mooser

          As I remember, there is a “religious purposes” exemption from property taxes. No doubt, they cover every square foot they can under that bailiwick, or it might be a “rubric”, I’m not sure. Anyway, they’re a bunch of ‘squares’ Strictly “L7” is you ask me.

          • Mooser

            You know how it is concerning everything concerning Scientology. The Mayor keeps on leaning on that”one of the biggest taxpayers” schtick that I suspect it is not true.
            I mean, every taxpayer is “one of the biggest” except for the last guy on the list, the smallest.

            • ze moo

              Mooser, you ever done a copywriter job?

        • Miss Tia

          yeah, i agree with mooser….i know in ohio, church’s don’t have to pay property taxes….i assumed that was a federal thing?? hmmm……

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          And bed tax for hotel stays, 5% of lodging cost in Pinellas County.

      • Aslansown

        Somebody else may remember better, but I think they pay some taxes on certain properties — like they can only portions of a building that is actually used for “religious” purposes but not the portion that is money-making. I’m not sure if that makes sense, now that I’ve read it! Hopefully someone else will give you a better answer!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          There you go with the psychic answer.

          • Aslansown

            You were faster than I was and had a much better answer! I wish I’d seen that — I wouldn’t have attempted it. I do love your “ecclesiastical cafeteria” line!

            • DamOTclese2

              Also Scientology does pay a great deal in aggregate taxes but obviously only a minute percentage of what they actually would owe if they were not engaged in rampant tax fraud. Nobody believes they are a charity, not even the IRS.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Religious institutions pay taxes on any number of things. There are commercial enterprises within the Scientology compound downtown, I am sure. I have worked with ministries in the past where buildings were divided– work on the chapel and you get to buy material tax free. Work on the gift shop down the hall and you pay.

        • Mooser

          Does Clearwater have their property tax rolls posted in the Web?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Good question.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          All the restaurants would have to pay taxes. I haven’t found anybody that has managed to make a cafeteria ecclesiastical.

          • Mooser

            I don’t know about that. I used to hear a lot about “cafeteria Catholics” a while back.

          • DamOTclese2

            Oh gods yes, let’s drag burritos back in to the conversation! I have hot sauce!

        • Miss Tia

          Well if anyone were to get things off the tax rolls, it would be the CO$!!!

      • aurora50

        Here is a navigable database provided by the Pinellas County Tax Assessor’s Office. You can scroll over the plat map and it will show the values. Someone here with local knowledge of which buildings are sci-owned should be able to use this to advantage.

        http://egis.pinellascounty.org/apps/PropertyAppraiser/paotpv/

        • Miss Tia

          ah, thank you!!

          • aurora50

            You bet! here is the website for the city: http://www.myclearwater.com/gov/

            I looked briefly at the budget section, but don’t have much time just now. In an urban area like that, what is funded by city/county/state would need to be evaluated. But the property taxes, per link I sent above, should be the major source of revenue for City expenditures.

            • Miss Tia

              I LOVE public records!!! :) —actually the city where i live gets their panties in a wad when i start requesting public records…..tee hee……

      • Sunny Sands

        All of the hotel rooms they book have to have taxes paid.

        • Miss Tia

          Ah, thank you! That makes sense!!

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Tourist places have a hotel tax/bed tax they charge for each hotel stay, to defray the costs of out-of-towners who use public infrastructure – roads and sewers, cops – but don’t pay property tax or income tax there. The hotel collects it from the guests and passes it on to the city or county.

          I would think they would need to pay that even for people who stay at the Fort Harrison.

          As of March 2013, the tourist tax was 5% in Pinellas County, according to the Tampa Bay Times http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/once-the-trop-is-paid-for-should-pinellas-countys-hotel-tax-build-an/2107898# “Pinellas County’s bed tax raised $30 million last year and is expected to approach $40 million in a decade. It is doled out by the County Commission, with input from a Tourist Development Council of elected officials and hospitality industry executives.”

          It si also on the Pinellas County website http://www.pinellascvb.com/cms/index.php?id=6

    • NOLAGirl

      Not the complete “middle finger” we’d like to have the city give Co$ but I like this guy:

      “City Manager Bill Horne has been clear: If the church doesn’t comply with all the conditions for the Flag Building dedication, the other two events won’t receive city approval.”

      • Aslansown

        I like him too! At least it sounds like they’re starting to be a little tougher on them. Can we hope they won’t comply?

      • DamOTclese2

        I guess he is faced with having to try to “work with” the Scientology crooks. That means he’s trying to play nice even though the other side is not.

        • NOLAGirl

          The email response I got from him had the tone of a man who isn’t interested in playing games with Co$. I hope he continues with that same attitude.

          • DamOTclese2

            Yeah, and he may have very little actual choice in these matters. Ah well, I think we all knew that the city would be forced to give them special dispensation not afforded anyone else.

            • NOLAGirl

              Very true. At least he seems to be somewhat awake to the foolery that is Co$.

      • Narapoid

        Manager Horne and everyone not familiar with $cientology is flabbergasted when such a large institution cannot do the simplest of actions that anyone else could (or must). This is all from Miscavige micromanaging the whole world of $cio. He flips wildly depending on court cases and all of a continent blowing off lines. WE know that, he doesn’t…unless he lurks inside the Bunker too.

        Hi Mr Horne, heard good things about you!

    • DamOTclese2

      Good grief. The city is basically surrendering, treating the crime syndicate as a special organization exempt from the rules that everyone else must follow.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Now, now. This looks like a good amount of give and take. Say what you will, the City does have an obligation to work with all their citizens, no matter how odious.

        • DamOTclese2

          Yeah. :( Until they are properly indicted the city has to work with them. Yeesh. If it were a real church that tried to do this, Clearwater would have told them to go pound sand.

        • DamOTclese2

          Also I guess we all knew in advance that it would come to this. :)

    • Mark

      “Partial closures of Fort Harrison Avenue for most of the weekend of Nov. 15-17. City officials say closing the southbound lane of a portion of the major downtown thoroughfare from Friday evening until Sunday morning won’t cause major traffic snags. The middle turn lane will carry southbound traffic.”

      Ho-ho! A contraflow! Nothing like two lanes of traffic crawling along hooting and revving in frustration close by to annoy the neighbours, especially if they’re stuck in a tent…

      • Aslansown

        Hee hee! Good thinking!

      • Mooser

        All the brouhaha and street closures will only make the paucity of Scientologists more evident when the events come.

        • Mark

          Bulgravia?

      • DamOTclese2

        Don’t forget all while 10,000 Scientology “parishioners” are walking around the place counting each others’ bodies.

        • NOLAGirl

          I cannot wait to see how much they miss that “10,000 parishioners” mark. :)

        • Mark

          Crazy!

      • ze moo

        The weather forecast for Tampa Bay is 80 and no high winds. 60% chance of rain on Saturday, the 17th. With 2 or 3 thousand in the tent, they will be needing air conditioning.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          and they will need porta potties as someone pointed out yesterday…

          • Mark

            Smelly!

        • Mark

          Sweaty!

    • Sunny Sands

      They are taking down a pedestrian crossing signal for 24 hrs. Scientology is bringing 8,000 people to town, many will be walking downtown and half of Ft. Harrison Ave. is closed. Taking down a pedestrian crossing signal doesn’t sound like a good thing.

      • Missionary Kid

        I doubt they’ll have that many visitors. I’ll bet that most of the attendees will be the clams that are already there.

    • ze moo

      “Taking down a pedestrian crossing signal pedestal for 24 hours with the church picking up the approximately $2,000 tab”

      Temporarily taking down any traffic device is stupid. If it confuses you, just turn it off. While the clams have claimed 8000 attendees, there is only room for 2-3 thousand at a time. Are they counting ‘exteriorized’ clams? I bet the ‘exteriorized’ ones get an admission price break. Yeah, that’s the ticket…..

      • DamOTclese2

        Turning it off turns it in to a stop sign, but the crooks are claiming they need it removed so they can video tape their Nuremberg Rally without it in their video.

      • OrangySky

        Like they’ll get 8000. Right.

  • nottrue

    I was hoping the Big Sheet would come down

    • DamOTclese2

      I hope the tent sheet stays up so the city can continue to see to the fines which the city will have to sue Miscavige to get — along with attorney fees and all the other fees.

    • Jeb Burton

      Just like I thought. The city would puff its chest and give them some easy to do code violations to amend, and basically give them everything they want.

      • Tony Ortega

        They only held firm on the street signal. And even that’s a miracle.

        • DamOTclese2

          On the plus side some of the hotels and restaurants might get some business, some dollars coming in. Maybe hotels called the city people, spoke loudly about revenues and drowned out the outrage of the little people.

          • Jeb Burton

            Doubtful. The high rollers will be staying at the ft. Harrison, and the rest will probably stay at the Hotel 6 on US 19.

            • DamOTclese2

              That’s the hotel that the protesters often stayed at during the Lisa McPherson memorial Protests, and I’m sure the hotel would appreciate any business it can get. :)

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              No Way. I agree. Those are the hotels that DO actually book up in advance.
              I don’t see that either.

        • OrangySky

          I can’t believe what total wusses they are.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Yeah, we’re ALL hoping “beeg sheet” will come down…!

  • Jo

    Latest Scientology FB post.

    Church of Scientology International
    2 hours ago
    Human Right #24: The Right to Play
    Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

    Everyone?

    • Minion Gayle

      Everyone. Just as soon as their billion year contract expires.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Gall. Hubris. Chutzpah. Da noive.

      There are not enough words.

    • DamOTclese2

      What is the Scientology idiot doing, going down the list of criminal and human rights crimes they commit and claiming the opposite of each and every one of them?

    • Miss Tia

      well except sea org, those in the hole, RPF etc….stupid POS mofo _________________________________________…..i’m having a day…..

    • Miss Tia

      dammit, i’m blocked from their FB page!!

      • DamOTclese2

        ROFL! Go collect your prize!

      • Jo

        How do you know when your blocked?

        • Miss Tia

          You know you’re blocked when you go to the page and you can see the posts but you cannot like or comment or post on their wall!!! They’re denying me my right of ‘religious freedom’! HAH!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I think you should petiition the IRS!!!

            • Miss Tia

              Wait wait, shouldn’t I infiltrate them? i’ve heard that works REALLY well if you infiltrate them!! I’ll send my dogs in undercover!! Then myself and my cats will all file lawsuits against them!! Bingo! Tax free status!!

            • Barbara Angel

              Naaaaaa just start your own Religion, I heard its a good way to make Moneeeeeee

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        but what an epic win before you got banned!

        • Miss Tia

          I got banned a few months ago when i went on a commenting ‘spree’ on i think almost ALL their sites….. 😀

          ETA: that was under MY personal FB account, not a sock….

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            me too……….but then, suddenly…I could comment again. and I did.
            And the cycle continues……..sigh…..

            • Miss Tia

              Oh cool, I hope i can comment again as my account….though i’m sure they see this user icon and oh lawdy lawd, they clutch their l. ron patented pearls of ‘wisdom’!

            • DeElizabethan

              Oh, they may be too busy packin’ for their overnights in the tent.

            • Miss Tia

              CAMP OUT!!!! Oh gee, i hope they get to have bon fires and roast marshmallows! How fun!! oh wait, they’re $cientologists, they’d never have fun in a tent :(

    • Miss Tia

      One of my socks…..who will now be banned….worth it though! :)

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I did my nasty gram in a comment about TWTH. they said:

        The Way to Happiness, a nonreligious moral code based entirely on common sense, written by author, humanitarian and Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard.

        My correction:
        The Way to Happiness, a nonreligious moral code based entirely on a total ripoff of the ten commandments.

        • DamOTclese2

          Not to mention a rip-off of the Code of Hammurabi.

          • Narapoid

            Except they will take an eye for a dirty look.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              So will a Scientologist.

          • Missionary Kid

            I used to think that it was a rip-off of the code of Hammarabi, but when I finally read the code, I found that the 10 commandments are like the Reader’s Digest version of the code. If you read it, you’ll see that it has a lot of extraneous rules in the Code that weren’t in the Commandments.

            I think that the main thing about the code is that it predated the Ten Commandments, and it was written. Probably, ideas were borrowed.

            The first part of the Commandments are just there to say to obey and honor god.

            • Robert Eckert

              The Code of Hammurabi and the Ten Commandments have no particular relationship. Neither the idea that societies need rules, nor the idea that they should be written, were original to either Hammurabi or Moses. What they have in common is that they are both legal codes from long ago which happen to have been preserved, as most from that time have not.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Where o’ where is TheHoleDoesNotExist, BuryTN?
          Miss her!!!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I.Dont. Know.
            So do I.

            But I just get the feeling she needed some time off.
            And, she scares the shit out of me (SCN ethics and all)………..So I am not going to fluff her nutter.

            • Sandy

              I also miss her, And Howdy! Bury – where is Howdy?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I don’t know. I was wondering that as well.
              it is a mad, mad world here in the bunker.

              But, I have posted 35 times today.
              Way over the bunker police limit.

              So I will go to dreamland now and shut up!

              I would say, night peeps…but that seems to irritate the more elite, intelligent and/or intellectual crowd………so……….whateves.

              me mordeant!

            • OrangySky

              Miss the Captain something awful.

            • Sherbet

              Seems to me somebody said his birthday is Saturday, the 9th. I hope he comes around for balloons, cake, and candles. Or at least to let us wish him Happy Birthday.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Goodnights are fine… no-one owns this comment section… write what makes you happy. I will NOT be controlled… I am NOT SEAORG. :)

            • Barbara Angel

              Thanks Enthralled: Once I made a joke about a, ‘movie line’ on this site and received some nasty stuff. The two best ones actually accused me of being a $cientologist WTF??????? Tooooooo ridiculous to reply to those two. “I WILL NOT BE CONTROLLED” either, too bad we can’t see the meanings behind emails and see when someone is actually laughing when they type. Oh well, at least the quick ease with which we can all share information is absolutely FANTASTIC and this is what is causing $cos to Crumble, plus their constant Hobby of Moare and Moare Foot Bullets….. Repeat: The more noise we make on the internet the more potential there is to save Innocent People from being sucked into Mustravages Vicious Vortex. So Keep Posting Everyone. Kind Regards B.A.

            • DeElizabethan

              I’ll say it “nite peeps!” Didn’t say much today but a busy day. My think tank has been on.
              MISS you THDNE. Hurry back <3

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              😉

            • Sandy

              Well, if you happen to bump into Howdy on the the Interwebs, tell him he is missed …

              Luv that man …

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              :-)

        • OrangySky

          Great! I might add, “a watered-down rip off”…

      • Jo

        Did you see this gem posted there?

        • Charlotte
        • Narapoid

          No, we believe we are infested with billions of dead ones. See? Nothing crazy here!

        • Miss Tia

          i saw that posted here awhile back i think…..i didn’t see it on their page though, i just went, left my comment, screen grabbed and got out! 😀

        • Noni Mause

          I resent that! The only scurrilous statements I make to ridicule you ARE for your actual religious beliefs!

      • MaxSpaceman

        Dang, MissT of TiaTweets-on-Twitter ! My lady just handed me a pair of socks, said, The Holes do not exist– go forth into the Bunker. I said, No freaking way am I going into the Bunker with that sock, honey-bunch (we like ol’ fashioned); one whiff of that sock and Robert E. be on me like an oxpecker on a hippopotamus! And he then virtually flay me sock alive!!

        • Miss Tia

          Poor Beth Lovitz, now banned from any more potential CO$ mirth and merriment….ah well….i have more socks!!! :-)

  • DamOTclese2

    In a September deposition Cruise compared shooting on location to serving a tour in Afghanistan. “That’s what it feels like. And certainly on this last movie, it was brutal. It was brutal.”

    Let’s start a Move On petition asking the White House to send Tom Cruise to Afghanistan to serve along side actual American soldiers.

    • NOLAGirl

      He wouldn’t last 24 hours. His “Big Being” status would do nothing for him there.

      • DamOTclese2

        True, I would not last an hour and I’m a pretty rugged desert dweller myself (not to mention ruggedly handsome.) Cruise is bubble-wrapped, protected, watered, air-conditioned, cared for while the soldiers sent to Afghanistan have brutal conditions. Cruise would drop like a fly after stepping out the C130 transport bay.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Now see, you just restimed a fantasy of mine.

          Wrapping cruise tightly in bubble wrap…the kind with the small bubbles. And I get to pop every bubble with a pin…one at a time.
          While telling him stories…I have gotten really good at that type of comm….they really enjoy that.

    • ze moo

      NO DOT NO, They would never let that fool have a rifle or let him do anything useful. They would just have to risk their asses to keep his safe. That comment will haunt him for the rest of his life, I like that.

      • Observer

        I certainly hope it will. I’d like to put him in a room with my multitudinous relatives who have served in the Marines, including a sibling who did two tours in Iraq, and make him repeat that statement. My 80-year-old Korean War veteran uncle could whip Top Gun with one hand tied behind his back.

        • texasborn

          I believe my son-in-law, an Afghan vet, could do some damage, too. But I REALLY believe my daughter could happily stomp Top Gun into the ground.

      • Narapoid

        Here’s what happens when you give TC a weapon…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppMQ2Jvekfg

    • Observer

      He starred in Born on the Fourth of July, so he knows what it’s like! He just knows, you degraded wog!

      • DamOTclese2

        I wonder how many combat medals Cruise is going to start claiming in his dotage.

      • texasborn

        Yeah, he knows. He also was able to get out of that wheelchair and walk away. Injured soldiers? Not so much.

        • Observer

          Exactly. But I bet he thinks he’s sacrificed just as much to help humanity.

          • texasborn

            Sadly, I’m sure you’re right. I don’t know why this has hit me so hard. The absolute gall of that man just . . . I can’t even form the words.

          • LemonLemon

            LOL exactly – just like when he sees an accident, he “knows” he’s the only one who can really help”

            • Barbara Angel

              Well he’s got a cell phone and can call 911?

        • DamOTclese2

          Tom Cruise knows how to know, he knows what Afghanistan is like, he does not need to actually go there or see it on National Geographic, he just knows. Telepathically. Plus he can fly.

    • Just Dee

      Why would you do that to our soldiers in Afghanistan?

      • DamOTclese2

        ROFL! Oh gods, that makes me bray laughter like an ass. :)

    • TXCowgirl

      DOT2, I really, really enjoy your comments and the personality that you lend the Bunker. You are always one of my favs. This comment is not so much directed at you as it is to knee-jerk news items and right now I am truly frustrated.

      My personality has been known to channel Sgt. Joe “Just the facts, Ma’am” Friday. So in my best Sgt. Friday voice I say to news reporters and bloggers alike, PLEASE RESPECT THE FACTS!! There was no mention of a “tour” of Afghanistan in the deposition and TC, himself, did not volunteer the comparison; his counsel did sometime previous to the depo.

      I am NOT, NO WAY, NO HOW defending TC. I’m just weary of the media’s factual ignorance. Whew, ok, I feel better now. Sorry I ended up erupting under your comment, DOT. Thanks for listening. I’ve donned my SWAT gear and am ready to take a bunker beatdown.

      • DamOTclese2

        This is how TMZ is reporting it. I’m guilty of cut-and-paste. :)

        • TXCowgirl

          I’m sure all of us do it unknowingly. It’s the reporters and their ilk that really get my hackles up.

        • Just Dee

          I think having your quote in bold with quotes is a dead give away that it was nothing more than a quote! :)

      • DamOTclese2

        Oh! Yes, please do kick ass in here, I certainly deserve it a lot, I make a lot of stupid comments and certainly the blog is educational for me. It’s great seeing such vibrant commentary, I don’t think you’ll get the beat-down you expect — because you’re right, all such quotes need to be checked for accuracy before people like TMZ are quoted.

        • TXCowgirl

          Thx, hon. I was very nervous about posting my little vent tantrum.

          • MaxSpaceman

            It was an important tantrum-statement, TexasCG. Your aim was true ~

            • TXCowgirl

              Hey Max, I like the name change. Much improved. I will admit (face palm) that for the first month or two, I thought your previous moniker was in reference to yourself and I wanted to say, “Come on now honey, you need to have a positive self-image.” :-) Needless to say, I need to double up on my guile-radar.

        • Mooser

          I’d be happy if all the US soldiers came back from Afghanistan. After all, that should still leave enough “security contractors” CIA agents and mercenaries to bleed us of cash, and persecute the Afghans for years to come.
          Of course, there’s no comparing the cult of American Empire to Scientology. Very different things.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Dude- if the Bunker went “there,” vis-a-vis that comment, we’d be off the Bunker and into deep shit !

      • Observer

        He did agree that it “feels like” being in Afghanistan, which is pretty much the same thing. How would that pampered dilettante know what being in Afghanistan feels like anyway? Does he think all soldiers have individual trailers, personal assistants, craft services, and endless do-overs if they screw something up?

        • DamOTclese2

          He knows what Afghanistan is like because he’s done movies where people shoot at him. Explosions. Desert, Sun, marching, he’s done movies, don’t you see, so he knows all about Afghanistan.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Lulz, Obs– you too funny sometimes !

        • TXCowgirl

          TC should learn to answer only yes or no to leading depo questions. It’s when he tries to justify himself that he makes headlines and provides fodder for the tabloids. Ah, sorry, I forgot about his larger-than-life ego-centric focus. My bad. :)

  • Mooser

    After lashing the old Cray into a digital froth (it was foam-flecked, like a steed, for chrissakes!) and consulting my Kenner Magic Eight-Ball I have concluded that November 2013 is a critical month for Scientology. And then into next year go the court cases and the “suppression” is growing everywhere.
    It’s the beginning of the end. The gradient goes only one way from here on in.

    • Mooser

      If there was a TV show called “So You Think You Can Go Ka-put?” they would win.

  • thatssotheta

    Another great video by Karen dlc. Jefferson Hawkins is such a classy guy.

    side note: I’m so glad to finally figure out where the “I know every inch of his body” comment came from. so many lulz at that one

  • Sarah James

    After reading Tony’s post on Tom Cruise, I understand why Cruise let’s Miscavige do his thinking for him. Cruise is just not smart.
    AGP is free. I do love the Pope!

    • Eclipse-girl

      But DM is not smart, either.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I loved Angry Gay Pope’s protesting, and it’s too bad he’s gotten himself in this pickle, because he just had so much innate talent and was great at bantering.

    The time AGP caught Kirsten Caetano, just before she got safely inside the back entrance along Ivar, he didn’t even know he’d almost cornered the Ace Ventura of OSA Intelligence, but he did! AGP was pretty brilliant, in my opinion, those first times he protested the HGB, before Lisa somehow (I smell clever opportunistic OSA Moxon crap) ensnared him. But on Kirsten, she being not the kind to have her feathers ruffled like Lisa, Kirsten instead just bantered back perkily to AGP.

    To me, the Lisa Uvitzl snare was practically a setup. Or an opportunistic counter ploy that just smells Moxon to me. (And by Moxon, that means Hubbard’s ex GO person Moxon, who we could use a bio of Moxon’s life, there’s a whole lot of Moxon’s history that could be pulled from all the stories on Moxon on the internet, but Moxon is just annoyingly acting out the worst of Hubbard’s Guardian’s Office and legalistic irreligious diverting tactics, which makes Scientology such a misdefinition of religion and shows Hubbard had for real a crashing musunderstood on what the definition of religion is—and back to Moxon, Moxon to me exemplifies Hubbard’s crashing misunderstood of what a religion is).

    AGP could have used a chaperon but he’s not the type to accept chaperons so the best would have been a good friend to tame him a bit when he needed some taming, so as not to get in the hot water he got into.

    His flower walking at Gold Base was another moment a friendly chaperon might have helped.

    Oh well, live and learn.

    AGP is in the all time lead for one of the best protesters in my opinion, he’s clever, he’s talkative, he engaged Moxon, he engaged Kirsten, I mean he’s great on the ground and I loved how he sometimes tongue-tied the Scientologist “heavies” (Moxon in particular) into blank looking idiots.

    You’re one of the best, AGP!

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I always feel guilty for helping make the Scientology movement, and making it a safe haven that drew so many people into it.

    I hope Tom Cruise gets out someday, and reads the critical books on his religion.

    If he just could read the books!

    If he can get away with NOT disconnecting from Suri (I hope her playmates tell Suri about Xenu as soon as possible), then maybe Tom can get away with reading books he chooses to read, and not be told he cannot read Lawrence Wright’s and Janet Reitman’s and Hugh Urban’s recent credible books.

    Tom and Travolta and Chick Corea ought to be publicly challenged to read Urban’s, Wright’s and Reitman’s books!

    Janet Reitman’s book gives a young Scientology woman, official Scientologist, almost the final word in Janet’s book!

    And Lawrence Wright’s book gives Scientology celebrities a public challenge to do some reckoning about the abuses and controversies of their religion.

    If Scientology has cured Tom’s reading problems, let’s see Tom read!

    Read Tom Read!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Janet Reitman’s book gives a young Scientology woman, official Scientologist, almost the final word in Janet’s book!

      Yes, she did……and it was a nice move. I hope that girl gets out. She was a pistol.
      And it did not dilute the message of Janets book whatsoever. At least in my opinion.

    • NOLAGirl

      “I always feel guilty for helping make the Scientology movement, and making it a safe haven that drew so many people into it.”

      It’s good that at some point you felt guilt for it, but I hope you won’t continue to hold onto it. You spoke out, and continue to speak out. You’re doing the right thing now and you shouldn’t beat yourself up over mistakes of the past. We’ve all done things we aren’t proud of, but please Chuck, find it in yourself…to forgive yourself. You’re a good person, and nothing can change that. I hope for nothing but the best for you. Allow yourself the freedom to move beyond the past, you deserve happiness. ((((HUGS))))

    • Donut

      Chuck, in the end it’s character that counts, and yours has compassion at it’s core. I love reading your posts and am certain that any scientologist reading your insights and experiences will have a seed of doubt planted and who knows, some courage too. Facts trump belief. I hope that some of the big beings who prop up the church read and learn.

    • aurora50

      What is so compelling to me, a never-in, is the clearly evident qualities of so many CoS exes. Many of you present as intelligent, compassionate, loyal, honorable human beings. I think it was at John P’s new site, I read a comment that was trying to delineate the time when the ‘applied spiritual technology’ became lost in the trappings of a ‘religion’.

      As you write, consciously and conscientiously, you are exemplifying what Jeff Hawkins just spoke about above…you are a livng result of what you learned, of the teaching you took in. Clearly, the Message was discreet from the Messenger!

      (That’s how it seems to me….)

      • OrangySky

        How true. And you know, the intelligence, humor and kindness of the exes here at the Bunker should remind us all of how evil Scientology is – to take people with those wonderful qualities and play on their goodness and take their money and their souls and their families.

    • aquaclara

      Chase the damn guilt away, Chuck. Without you, are exes like you who help, reach out, share knowledge and embrace the world outside Scientology, there would be no way to help connect to those still in. You have done all this and more, and I, for one, am in your debt.

      Now, to the rest. Yes! Read, Tom, read. The stories are now out there-there are no more excuses for hiding.

    • Barbara Angel

      At the time you thought you were sharing something terrific, no need to feel guilt. We’ve all erred out of enthusiasm, please be kind to yourself. This is a site for sharing, you have something to share particularly with us never ins, how else would we know if you weren’t brave enough to escape. So Well Done for getting OUT, a new and happy life awaits you. The more noise we make on the Internet the more potential victims are saved. You didn’t/couldn’t know in advance it was all a scam, unless you have a telepathic hat that works and if you do, next Saturday Australian time please send me the Tattslotto numbers for the lottery. Spent 65 days and nights living in my car this year during the winter and I would like lots of Moneeeeeeeee to set up something for the homeless. Government agencies in my State are useless. OK, now back to you. If we knew what we know now – we would never have done a), b), c), etc, too late too bad, lets just do the BEST we can by doing at least ONE kind deed per day. Nothing absolutely Nothing tastes as good or feels as good as doing Kind things for Others. Never too late to start. Kind Regards. B.A.

  • Jgg2012

    The publicity around this case has to be bad for Suri. If Tom Cruise were really a good father, he would say “protecting Suri is more important than the $50 million I know I would win” and drop the lawsuit. If he were a good father.
    He won’t.

  • jmh

    Craigslist Slaying!

    Thank you all for your continuing support of this campaign. This has really become an amazing op! We’ve made it in the news again!
    http://www.dailydot.com/news/scientology-anonymous-craigslist-war/

    Here are today’s offerings:

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/09/anonymous-and-craigslist-proof-that-scientology-knows-its-under-attack/#comment-1114652160

    Please do continue checking previously posted links. New ads are posted daily in some cities.
    For a refresher on Slaying tips and links to helpful documents, go here: https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/craigslist-co-slaying-clearcraig-tips-and-links-please-read-before-flagging-or-posting.114142/

    • VickiStubing

      I added a few to jmh’s awesome list, so please check again if you’ve already slayed today 😀

      Thanks, all!

      • jmh

        Thanks Vicki! :)

    • ParticleMom

      Flagged in Boston.

  • IASREG

    In relation to Katie Holmes being a Suppressive Person and Suri being a PTS is there any information on how many times and how much time Tom Cruise has spent with Suri since Thanksgiving 2012? It is almost Thanksgiving 2013, so nearly a year has passed. Has Tom made an effort to see Suri over the past year?

    • Charlotte

      TC realised his movements regarding Suri were being scrutinised by media at large, so he stopped taking her for papp walks to make it harder. I take it we’re now supposed to believe he sees her on a regular basis, but actually keeps his private time private. I can’t knock him for that, because it’s better for Suri, but I don’t like his motivations.

      • IASREG

        Ah, I see. A person of his financial means could easily keep his activities private. Even though he has a busy schedule I’m sure something could be worked out for him to see his daughter on a regular basis. He does not have to come to her, he has the means to have her brought to him.

        • Charlotte

          What’s best for Suri is not a factor. When he wanted the ‘happy family’ headlines, he trotted his girls (Connor and Isabella need not apply) for the cameras. When that was proven to be bollocks, he trotted Suri solo as a ‘hero daddy’. When we realised that was becoming more infrequent, he (his team) decided to play ‘private, normal (they sure do love that word, eh) dad’ who sees his daughter away from the public glare.

        • Mooser

          Wouldn’t he be constrained on how much he can have the girl “brought to him” by the parenting agreement?
          It is best for parent to stick to that agreement. Even violating the parenting agreement with the consent of the other spouse can have adverse consequences.

          • IASREG

            Yes it would. He would have to work with the mom on that… except she is SO SUPPRESSIVE!

  • aurora50

    So, the next hearing in the Cruise matter is 11/26, Hannukah is 11/27, Thanksgiving is 11/28, and the Scilon Events are the following three days?! is this right?

    After the world-wide press kerfluffle of the past few days…and weeks (LEAH!!)…it will be an explosive final week to the monthus horribulus, all self-inflicted, of the (MK term-of-the-day for…) DM!

    Golly…

    • IASREG

      Well, Tom won’t be too far away to see Suri then since he can just fly to NYC from Florida. Right?

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Hm. Is Tom going to either the IAS or SuperPower events? Has anyone heard?

        • Mooser

          Nobody is going. Nobody who is anybody, or even somebody would be seen dead in a ditch there. Heck, they could push the seats aside and play indoor soccer in the main tent, if there’s enough people for two teams. Maybe they could have a one-on-one “clears” free-throw contest.

    • Missionary Kid

      O.K., what does monthus horribulus mean?

      • aurora50

        bad bad attempt at faux latin, MK…
        was attempting to imitate when Queen Elizabeth spoke about her ‘annus horribilis’ (horrible year)…
        as you can see, I didn’t even get the spelling correct!

        • Missionary Kid

          Unfortunately for me, I sweated through 2 years of Latin in high school. I’ve forgotten most of it, but I didn’t recognize it. I should have recognized that it was faux. The correct Latin, according to the internet, is Horrendus mensis.

          • Charlotte

            Reads way too much like PMT. Hmm, does PMT make you PTS?

            Also, does that mean we can say ‘TC is on the rag’?

            • Missionary Kid

              Dunno. What is PMT?

            • Charlotte

              Pre Menstrual Tension. A mensis/menses pun. It was lowbrow in the extreme.

            • Missionary Kid

              I thought it might be that, but I wanted to make sure.

              You’re not the only one to make the joke. Mooser did the same.

            • Charlotte

              There were none others like it when I posted mine or I wouldn’t’ve added, just chuckled quietly to meself.

            • Missionary Kid

              I can’t recall whose post I got the first notification of. Ahh, Disqus. 😉

          • Mooser

            “The correct Latin, according to the internet, is Horrendus mensis.”

            My wife is determined not to complain about it. but she gets that sometimes.

            • Missionary Kid

              Bad, bad pun.

          • OrangySky

            I loved Latin but then grew up and promptly forgot most of it. And then Mr. Sky went and got all obsessed with ancient Rome and I couldn’t impress him as much as I’d have liked.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Good lord”..MR . Nuts still translates everything into Latin…annoying…how do I make it stop ?

            • OrangySky

              I look forward to meeting Mr Nuts some day! He sounds like a character!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              He Is that!

            • Missionary Kid

              I think that it was Mark pointed out that there were many different regional differences in the way that Latin was written and spoken. That may throw a monkey wrench into your ability to translate.

              I didn’t love Latin. It probably had to do with my study habits at the time. I didn’t have to study much for anything else, even though I had college prep courses.

          • Mark

            “Mensis horrendum” (mensis being 3rd declension masculine; adjectives usually placed after nouns). “Mensis horribilis” would do just as well. Pedantic fit over.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m so lazy this evening, I didn’t even try to correct the internet translation. I did realize that the adjective should go after the noun, but the rest, I’ve tried to forget.

              Was it you who pointed out that there were all sorts of regional differences of Latin when the Romans were speaking and writing it?

            • Mark

              Don’t quite know why I squandered 20 minutes going through bloody Kennedy’s Latin Primer to find that out… probably because it was there on the bookshelf. Didn’t point it out, but it’s quite true about the regional variations – how the Romance languages got started.

            • Missionary Kid

              Here in the U.S., there are regional accents, but I really became much more aware of regional differences traveling in Great Britain over 40 years ago and hitchhiking from London up to Inverness, Scotland.

              Even then, after centuries of highways, trains, movies, radio and television, those regional differences must have melded a lot of the English. There was still Gaelic being spoken.

              It stands to reason that there would be much stronger differences in language when the Romans held sway in Italy during the Roman rule. For their time, they had excellent communication, but that was probably not for the common people who were the users of their different dialects.

        • Miss Tia

          i knew what you were referring too aurora50! big fan of the royals! :)

  • Jgg2012

    re Fields characterization of Drew’s comments: did Goebbels ever express concern that someone feels emptiness / needs help? Did he ever treat someone who was suffering from depression and cure them?
    Let me rephrase that: did Dr. Pinsky round up millions of people (including children) and kill them?

    • IASREG

      No, no and no. Interestingly Joseph happened to be a sociopath and a tiny man, 5’5″.

    • Mooser

      “Let me rephrase that: did Dr. Pinsky round up millions of people (including children) and kill them?”

      Did anybody ask him to? I think not. So you cannot say dispositively he would not have, if asked to by a person he respected.

  • Jefferson Hawkins

    A common thread over the past few days is the seeming inability of Scientologists to communicate in “the real world.” They seem to be hampered at every turn by Hubbard’s fixed ideas about the proper way to deal with difficult situations. Tommy Davis receives an invitation from Tony to meet. He could have either ignored it or politely declined, and that would have been that. No, he has to launch an over-the-top attack – something that also marked his inept press handlings. He doesn’t seem to see that he made it worse.

    Same with Tom Cruise. He seems to have never heard of the Streisand Effect and does not understand that he has made the situation far worse by getting all huffy and litigious. Now he’s getting far worse press – and not just in the tabloids, How much classier would it have been for him to simply ignore it or laugh it off?

    One factor is Hubbard’s insistence that you never defend, you always attack. The other is the fixed idea that all of Scientology’s critics and all media are “1.1” (“covert hostility” on the Tone Scale). Hubbard says that to command or control any Tone Level, you just go one half to one tone above it – so the proper Tone Level to communicate to any critic is 1.0 (Anger) to 1.5 (Antagonism). That’s why you ALWAYS see Scientologists in any interview situation reacting with this faux anger and outrage. You can bet that all of the Desperate Wives were drilled, drilled, drilled on these principles. “More anger! More anger! Attack! Attack! Atttack!” That’s how any Scientologist is coached to deal with media. They would have been so much more effective if they had just been themselves.

    • aurora50

      GREAT insight!

      thank you so much…for a never-in, you have just clarified a huge issue…why are they always screaming?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Check, check and check.
      By the way….It is time for your physical. I have my gloves on!
      VEE must Chek every INCH of U!!!

      • IASREG

        Wait, why do you need gloves? I thought this was just an external examination…

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I am a wuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • IASREG

            The pope touched AND kissed a man with
            neurofibromatosis! The pope of Scientology? No way!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I once kissed a dude who smoked???????????

            • TXCowgirl

              Oh Bury, thank you for the levity.

            • IASREG

              DM smokes doesn’t he? PUCKER UP!

      • Barbara Angel

        Bring me a bunch of flowers and we can pretend its a date then.

    • aurora50

      “They would have been so much more effective if they had just been themselves.”

      …and let their years of working the ‘tech’ speak for them, no?

      that it so off-putting to anyone observing them from the outside…they just lose it at what seems to be minor provocation…

      • Barbara Angel

        Monkey see- – – Monkey do.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Well said. I also note that my “Google News” alert for Scientology, which is typically 2-9 items a day, is now 31 items, many of them about Tom Cruise…

    • Narapoid

      Wow Jefferson, corporate practitioners are locked in with stock responses. They cannot be allowed to talk to outsiders. When I was public decades ago, I thought that the ARC triangle concept was something functional. I have used it without being aware of it unless a communication issue really came up, then I actively applied it.

      I know many on this sight despise everything Scientological, but when it worked, it was cool. Not everything was space invaders.

    • OrangySky

      {{This is because Hubbard’s “Tone Scale” is scientifically proven accurate to the .00000000999th decimal.
      All those numbers on the tone scale? Hubbard did years of complex calculations and experiments to come up with the exact metrics of each and every emotion listed. It is 100% accurate and it always works.}}
      A little LULZ about LRH & math:
      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28308-Hubbard-Talks-about-Math-Physics-Neural-Science

      • kemist

        Oh, for the love of…

        I cringed reading that. I would have lost any shred of respect I might have had for the guy if I had some before I read this.

        FFS, I had no problem understanding basic calculus as a teenager. Great mind my ass.

    • Noni Mause

      It’s a pleasure, as always, to read your clear and informative posts. I always come away feeling as if my understanding of the cult has been deepened as a result. I can remember listening to one of Hubbard’s lectures where he talks about dealing with the press and the need to attack, attack, attack. He laughingly assured listeners that if everyone followed this maxim that it would wipe out negative press within a year or two. I think that was back in 1967 or 1968.

      • Mooser

        “I can remember listening to one of Hubbard’s lectures where he talks
        about dealing with the press and the need to attack, attack, attack.”

        And how did that work out for you, Ron?

        • OrangySky

          :-) !!

        • Barbara Angel

          Answer from Ron: “Well I died in hiding; with my arse shot full of psyche drugs, clutching my many suitcases of all that wonderful Moneeeeeeee that I couldn’t spend, terrified of Mustravage because by then I KNEW that little shit was pure Evil, surrounded by creepy body thetans, chuckling about all the suckers who fell for my Con, but to be honest for Once I can’t say I died happy a happy man, it really pissed me off that I couldn’t take all that delicious Moneeeeeeeee with me. Damn”.

    • Eclipse-girl

      completely Off topic, but I thought you should know

      Buried within the 1000 + comments are many comments that give kudos to you for being a classy person in relation to your ex.

      • OrangySky

        Ditto. We can all learn from your dignity, Jefferson.

      • i-Betty

        Oh, I really agree with this. You were very gentlemanly about your ex-wife, Jefferson.

    • Mooser

      “They would have been so much more effective if they had just been themselves.”

      After they paid all that money, and took all that time and trouble, to become somebody else, leave that old worn out self behind? Why, they’d be letting themselves down!

    • Zana

      Wow. Thanks for the insight. I hadn’t thought of that. Amazing. No wonder those “desperate wives” seemed like such shrews. Yikes. Scary. The “I know every inch of his body…” quote was said with such nastiness that all I could think was, “Poor guy.”

    • Barbara Angel

      Attack mode is also a cover mode for the massive ignorance concerning their own Twisted Cult rules which chop and change depending on Mustravages hissy fits. Say the wrong thing and Mustravage will destroy you, be to compliant with the media and your own ignorance will destroy you. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. It must suck double to be a high profile Cult Member! OK you get to use the unpaid slaves for free, but Mustravage is watching every move you make. So it sucks to be TC in fact it sucks to be a CULT member full stop.

  • leina11

    But in a document filed on Nov. 5, Cruise returns to the exchange and amends his words, telling the court, “Katie has never told me that this [Scientology] was a reason for our divorce.”

    Reps for both Cruise and Holmes – who took Suri to South Africa with her while she shoots a movie aren’t commenting on the legal back-and-forth.

    But it’s clear that Cruise wants to underline that Scientology did not come between him and his daughter – a point he repeatedly makes in the original deposition, calling the assertion “absolutely disgusting.”

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20754184,00.html

    Sure, Tom. If you say so.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Yeah Tommy……….Good luck putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

    • IASREG

      If Scientology was not an issue then Tom would be taking Suri to Scientology ‘churches’ such as the Celebrity Center and having her ‘apply’ Scientology. He isn’t. If it isn’t an issue the most dedicated Scientologist ever would insist Suri was involved in Scientology. He isn’t.

      • OrangySky

        Bingo.

    • Noni Mause

      The exchange that interests me most is where the lawyer puts the scientology/divorce link to Cruise and he jumps in quickly and says: “Did she say that?” He follows immediately with the statement agreeing that it was one of the assertions.

      Together with your material, I would guess that Katie has been careful NOT to say that to TOM. I suspect she didn’t make this sort of statement EVER, especially not when she was on the brink of leaving or soon after. I DO think that Tom himself suspects this, though, which is why he jumped on it by asking if she really said it.

      • OrangySky

        She must have said something about it in the divorce proceedings, because Tom would’ve fought to have Suri raised in the church. Stuff was said, stuff was negotiated behind closed doors…she had serious leverage to have gotten away as cleanly and quickly as she did.
        He may have jumped on it because perhaps he was assuming she’d violated the divorce agreement NDA?

        • Noni Mause

          Interesting take on it. I hadn’t thought about it that way. You could be right. These days you don’t need to specify in detail the exact grounds for the divorce, so she could have gotten away with saying something fairly generic, e.g. unreconcilable differences, without having to say that scientology was a factor.

          The other thing you mention is VERY interesting. I was SHOCKED when the divorce was finalised in 7 days. Like you, I expected Cruise to fight tooth and nail to retain shared custody at least, so that he’d have the ability to indoctrinate her into scilon ways. I mean, how embarrassing for him, Mr No.2, and his wife takes his child and flees for the hills just when she’s reached the age she’s expected to get her first auditing session. I am in total agreement with you – she has some massive leverage. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for those negotiations. :-)

        • Eclipse-girl

          According to Mark Ebner, Father Holmes had been trying to get Katie out for a long time.

          Father Holmes made sure that Suri would never be raised as a scientologist.

          I also think that at something like age 6, scieno kids get their first taste of truth rundowns, sec checking and endless questions trying to turn them into spies in their homes may have also had something to do with it.

  • jmh

    Cruise has stepped in it. He may ‘amend’ his words, but his deposition says it all. He can’t deny the fact that he wasn’t in Suri’s life for an extended amount of time. I believe the general public is becoming blatantly aware that Tom’s repeated denials that his divorce and subsequent lack of presence in Suri’s life aren’t due to Scientology are just a giant smokescreen.

    • IASREG

      Seems like a catch-22 for Tom and Dave. Either he sees his daughter against Scientology policy “enturbulating” disconnected Scientologists or he follows Scientology doctrine and his relationship with his daughter is disconnected.

  • nottrue

    Katie did you leave Tom because of scientology or because hes an asshole or both?

    • marti

      Seriously nottrue?
      Really?
      Ms. Katie Holmes should respond to this comment?

      • nottrue

        In my dreams i guess

        • TXCowgirl

          Yes, sometimes you have to just put the question out there, somewhere.

          • OrangySky

            I agree. Of course, as a mother, she’s got to put her own child first.
            But I hope some day – and some day soon – she speaks out.
            Now we know that her business partner has signed an NDA.
            But NDA’s aren’t enforceable when it comes to criminal activity. Don’t forget that, Katie!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              That is right. ANY contract is voided if it was made under unlawful circumstances!
              Period!
              Unlawful purpose=Void!

          • marti

            Really TXCowgirl?
            With “asshole”, “Are you afraid”, and with, “or did you sign something for DM” in the comment?
            I have so much more respect for Ms. Holmes than that.

            • TXCowgirl

              I think, hopefully, that you’ve misunderstood me. My comment was in order to lend comfort to notrue in light of your question, “Ms. Katie Holmes should respond to this comment?” Sometimes there is no effective place to ask a question, so you’ve just got to put it out there, somewhere.

            • marti

              With swear words?

            • nottrue

              Very bad taste on my part sorry.Katie is a lady and a great mom

            • TXCowgirl

              No, no, no! You’re statement was fine. No apologies necessary.

            • Eclipse-girl

              This is what the conversation reminded me.

              I am not calling anyone out. I just wanted to put this at the end of the conversation.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvLTJfYnik

            • Rita Gregory

              God I miss George. :( So grateful he lives on in vids and recordings.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do too.

            • FromPolandWithLove

              I’ve just pissed my pants from laughing;p

            • Rita Gregory

              You’ve apologized enough. I’ve seen a lot more distasteful things than this on here. :)

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You should Not appologize!

            • marti

              Yes. Katie is a lady and a great mom.

            • nottrue

              Sorry i upset you.I can be a jerk sometimes.Im not perfect

            • Rita Gregory

              She should be an adult and get over it. You’ve done everything in your power to appease her and she’s still not satisfied.

            • nottrue

              Im done

            • Rita Gregory

              Good. I think she’s just trying a thread derail. :)

            • marti

              No, I am not starting a thread derail. Sheesh.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              This is not the first time she has pulled this bullshit!
              Ignore it.

            • nottrue

              Im so sorry I said asshole haa

            • Rita Gregory

              Thaks for confirming that BTN. I thought I’d seen her stir up trouble before.

            • marti

              I made a comment, “Seriously nottrue? Really? Ms. Katie Holmes should respond to this comment?”
              That was all my comment was.

              Then the cliquish unfreedom of speech on this blog started.

              Just look at yourselves. You remind me of a cult. Cliquish much?

            • i-Betty

              …ad infinitum.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You are repeating yourself!

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              You tell em, marti! Just look at these cliquish people. EXACTLY like a cult here. I mean, just try and post even a brief comment, and the unfredom of speech lovers respond as if you said something soo stupid. They can’t even tell that their comments are offensive! I mean, SERIOUSLY!? They sure do need to look at themselves! Marti, I hope you call these offensive, cultish, unfreedom on speech lovers out every time they use curse words or unflattering expressions to celebrity lady-moms. I’m just glad to see someone here who will give these culties the finger wagging they deserve. Keep up the good work!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I say we have this man in the top hat drawn and quartered and call it a night.

            • TXCowgirl

              Hopefully you mean you are done with this thread and not that you’re done with the Bunker. Don’t go away!

            • nottrue

              Im done with place.Its history now.Im out here baby. KIDDING

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Damn right u r kidding. I will hunt u down and drag u back!!,

            • TXCowgirl

              You mean you’re going to make like a Scientologist and “rout out”? Tee-Hee.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Snort!

            • marti

              @Rita, I did not ask him to appease me or apologize. i am not dissatisfied.There is nothing for me to get over.
              I made a comment, “Seriously nottrue? Really? Ms. Katie Holmes should respond to this comment?”
              That was all my comment was.

              Then the cliquish unfreedom of speech on this blog started.
              Just look at yourselves. You remind me of some cult.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You were the one trying to curb someone’s speech.
              Look at yourself.
              You have the right to not like anything we say. We have the right to tell you to pound sand.
              Let freedom ring!
              And you can tell us to pound sand too. Or scold us all you want.
              But expect push back darlin.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Can we ask someone to pound sand? Because, for real, I don’t know what that means and I’d like to see a demonstration.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Apparently you did not see”the Master”

              😉

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              That was actually my first thought. That scene was mad creepy.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Lol, of course the phrase was around long before that….but I could not resist.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I was hoping you didn’t mean that, because now it seems like I was calling for a demonstration of that. But I checked the internet! It means to go fill sand holes. Or to fill holes with sand. Or to just quietly join nottrue in the corner.

            • Rita Gregory

              Around here in farm country it means “get out of here”. :)

            • nottrue

              i anit in no corner

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              That’s a shame. The corner is great. Free drinks.

            • marti

              you are not in a corner dear nottrue. but just stay there until we’re done, ok sweetie?

              It shan’t take long.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Wow, that is pretty damn condescending. Why would you speak to him like that? That’s more offensive than anything he’s ever posted.

            • nottrue

              what the fuck are talking about.

            • marti

              cute

            • nottrue

              stay where i am until were done. Ok are you done now

            • marti

              I didn’t mean to start a maelstrom.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              Of course you didn’t, marti. It’s just that these unfreedom of speech lovers are so cliquish that, when someone tries to righteously call them out on their disrespectful questions to celebrity lady-moms, they are so much like a cult, they for some reason get all offended. I mean, just look at them. Sheesh.

            • marti

              Why, Thank you 1890’s Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII.

            • marti

              Sir Hemet, I reviewed, today, this exchange from the 8th.
              That is not my downvote. Just to let you know.

            • nottrue

              You done now

            • marti

              Yes nottrue. Gosh. That was like an hour ago.
              Are you hungry? I’ve got spaghetti and meatballs cooking.

            • nottrue

              Pease and Love and please kick my ass when i need it

            • marti

              It’s not my intent on this beautiful earth to kick anyone’s arse.
              I apologize nottrue.

            • nottrue

              I apologize to you marti

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You are free to move about the cabin!

            • tetloj

              Nobody keeps nottrue in the corner

            • tetloj

              …..Oh!

            • marti

              Dear BTN, It’s a blog. You say, “You have the right to not like anything we say.”

              Yes. I made a simple comment to nottrue,
              “Seriously nottrue? Really? Ms. Katie Holmes should respond to this comment?”

              Sheesh. And then everyone’s comments starts flying . Really?!

              Get over this “bullshit” that you have said I have done before.

              It’s a freakin free blog the last I knew of.

              And then someone says i am trying to derail it.

              I’m on your side.
              You owe me an apology Dag nab it.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Well don’t hold your breath.

              When you apologize to nottrue for being completely over the top in your critique of his perfectly acceptable post……I would then consider a respectful truce.
              That is my best and final.

            • marti

              “When you apologize to nottrue for being completely over the top….I would then consider a respectful truce. That is my best and final.’

              OK. I apologize, for nottrue being completely over the top.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              Seriously marti?
              Really?
              Ms. BTN should respond to this comment?

            • marti

              Ha. Touch`e.

            • marti

              @BTN, Was not trying to curb anyone’s speech.
              Helping him refine it.

              Scolding not. (tell somebody off: to rebuke somebody angrily). Nope.

            • i-Betty

              Nonsense, you have done nothing wrong. You’ve never been a jerk on here; quite the opposite :)

            • nottrue

              Your right. It was not in good taste at all.Just blow some steam

            • Rita Gregory

              I think your heart was in the right place though.

            • TXCowgirl

              This is the comment section of a blog. Your questions, as I read them, were well meant. You have no reason to back-peddle. Eventually, I would also like to know if it was because he was an asshole, plain and simple. Valid questions all.

            • marti

              But, is that really the way to ask a sincere question?
              To receive a an honest, sincere answer?
              Ms. Holmes needs respect and so does her daughter Suri.

            • Rita Gregory

              nottrue has apologized twice now. I see no disrespect to Suri at all in his statement. I see no disrespect to Katie other than calling her ex an asshole, an opinion she may well share.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              Excellent questions, marti! I don’t see how you would NOT get an answer to such respectful questions. Oh wait, I forgot that you pointed out how much unfreedom of speech there is here, and that the people here remind you of a cult. And they curse at lady-moms. Sheesh.

            • marti

              Dear nottrue, She might answer your question if it was more respectfully asked.
              That’s all.

            • nottrue

              The question was satire

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Chill out Pollyanna! This is a big kids blog!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Katie was probably on her way to post on the Bunker until she spotted the swear word. Opportunity lost.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Gosh darn it!

            • Rita Gregory

              Glad I missed the keyboard on that spit take! :)

            • marti

              @Jimmy, Ya know, an opportunity missed due to my imperfect timing and response to nottrue’s question to Miss Holmes.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I don’t follow. What does your timing have to do with it?

            • i-Betty

              Hur hur 😛

            • marti

              Well. I am an adult.

            • marti

              I’m waiting.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              For what?
              And why are you talking to yourself?

            • marti

              I was waiting for you to finish typing.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Okay?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Then quit acting offended by reality and scolding other adults who are speaking in a perfectly normal context.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Ok, no Pollyanna.
              Your other choices are Mary Poppins or Gidget.

              Pick one.

  • Miss Tia

    Any reddit users? I went to post this article and someone already posted it, could you please help out if you use reddit and vote it up? thank you!!!

    http://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/1q5b2u/anonymous_is_winning_its_craigslist_battle/

    • Donut

      Done sister

      • Miss Tia

        Thank you!!

    • i-Betty

      Thanks Missy, done :)

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    The world according to Miscavige. Homophobic Miscavige coaches four women to go on national t.v. and state they know “every inch” of their husbands’ bodies. None of them, however, including Miscavige, was prepared for Anderson Cooper to ask why they hadn’t called the police if Rathbun or Rinder were allegedly beating up people. The astonishment shown by Jenny DeVocht when that question was asked points out the fallacy in Miscavige’s world view. He doesn’t understand how the world actually operates. It never occurred to Miscavige, a high school drop out with no social skills and no understanding of history or the law, that normal people don’t beat each other up in the workplace and that they call the police when someone gets violent. Just as it never occurred to Miscavige that Monique Rathbun has every right to sue him when he violates her rights. The average second grader understands more about the rights of a citizen in a democracy than Miscavige does. Jenny DeVocht’s reaction to Anderson Cooper is very revealing about Miscavige’s coaching. When she realized she had been caught by Cooper she got very hostile. According to her, Cooper hadn’t played fair, he had tricked her. This is the world according to Miscavige. Only enemies do not buy his lies, only enemies use logic, the law and justice against him. This kind of paranoia is not found among the “glitterati,” the world Miscavige longs to join, but it is found consistently among the “illiterati,” the world that Miscavige inhabits.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Bang! Zoom!! To the Moon!!!
      Fab analysis, SoyS. Thank you for this insight.

    • Noni Mause

      Yes. Jenny DeVocht became particularly savage when Cooper pointed out the obvious flaw in their shore story – according to them they knew about it so why did they not involve the police. What happens next is that she attacks him and he doesn’t ask the follow up questions that are needed to really puncture their story.

      The other HUGE gap in their shore story is the whole ‘married for blah blah years, never saw a scratch’. Umm…. they just ALL admitted that MARTY had assaulted people. Marty has admitted he assaulted people. How then, were there no physical consequences from that??

      e.g. “So, ladies, you’ve said that Miscavige wasn’t the beater, that you’ve NEVER seen any physical evidence of assault on your husbands’ bodies, so how do you know that Marty assaulted people? Oh someone told you? So you have no actual evidence of that? Your version of events, then, is just as unsupported as the Internet Fringes’? Thanks.”

      • MaxSpaceman

        Cooper didn’t ask the followup questions, Noni M because he was attacked, which startled him. He lost his initiative.

        The most powerful weapon that Hubblard devised for dealing with society, for his organization, for any individual member, has been: Always attack. Never defend.

        It leaves a residue of hate and fear and loathing, when used by the cult and cult members. It leaves an audience or witnesses with a feeling of loathing them. But $cientologists don’t care *at all* what *any* member of society thinks of them. They saving the planet. We just wogs.

        The habits of thought and patterns of behavior are detestable. Hateful. Despicable. And that tiny little minority of a business masquerading as a phony religion must Obey Law and Respect the Civil Rights, the Human Rights, and the Inalienable Rights of the citizenry of planet earth.

        • Noni Mause

          Agreed. He did indeed look startled at the viciousness of DeVocht’s come back, which put him off his game. Anderson Cooper is a pretty experienced journalist and pretty tough interviewer though – I was disappointed that he didn’t regroup and pick up his question again. He should have been able to. (Having said that, he’s amongst the best journalists I’ve seen at handling scientologists).
          When thinking about this interview I did wonder whether he felt a bit hamstrung because they were women. I suspect he would have been much tougher on a male interviewee. Guess from their perspective that was a win for Tone Scale Tech.

          • MaxSpaceman

            At the same time, perhaps yes, that moment went to the cult. But the entire display of the former wives, sent by the Cult, directed by miscavige, was an epic FLUNK!

            • Noni Mause

              They just don’t ever seem to understand that those sorts of strident, aggressive displays confirm in the public’s mind that they are bullies. It cements perceptions they are trying to quash. Scientology contains the seeds of their own doom. They have to follow Hubbard’s pronouncements on handling bad press. It’s not like they can sack Eller Aitch as their PR guy the way Cruise sacked his sister.

            • Barbara Angel

              Absolutely, in fact the aggressive displays actually makes them “Scary” Bullies. It’s stuff like that concerning Tommy Davis and the Brit journalist, that started me reading and following in the first place. Moare Foot Bullets anyone? They’re so Stupid they can’t see how much actual PR harm this does to them. Otherwise I’d never have noticed them or spared $cos a thought, they were never on my radar and now I’d do almost anything to help cause more destruction to that insidious CULT.

          • OrangySky

            Yes, I think he was doing amazingly well – better than almost any journalist I’ve seen handling Scientologists – TV journos, that is – and yes, I think the fact that it was a group of women acting “wronged” really threw him. He’s a Vanderbilt; he was raised to have impeccable manners.

        • OrangySky

          “The habits of thought and patterns of behavior are detestable.”

          And yet this abomination of a “religion” wants us all to have them. That’s what clearing the planet means. We all think and act like Scientologists, treating anyone who dares disagree with us like an enemy; being willing to lie, cheat, steal, even kill them in the name of the cause.

          That’s what a clear planet means. A world of despicable, vengeful and obedient people. That’s what Hubbard wanted.

          • Barbara Angel

            Hubbard was barking mad a psychopath who wanted others to live in his, ‘psychopathy’ and by the looks of things he seems to have some what succeeded.(?) Anyone who can still think/believe that $cos is a RELIGION worries me deeply. Apologies in advance, I’ve no wish to offend anyone, but c’mon a RELIGION??????

            I’m surprised apologists of Hitler didn’t claim the same thing, “Oh we had to commit these SHOCKING atrocities to purify the race, it was our RELIGIOUS duty”. Never mind the consequences to the innocent who happened to be born into the “Not” chosen Religion. Waaayyyyy Toooo much YUCK in and around $cos, for my taste and yet some really GOOD PEOPLE were fooled, just like the Third Reich.

    • OrangySky

      Brilliant observation, SOYS.

      “The average second grader understands more about the rights of a citizen in a democracy than Miscavige does.”

      Miscavige knows only the tactic of a second grade playground bully – “He’s a liar!” “He hit me first!”

      The wives response to Cooper’s very logical question is telling, also. “It only happened once!” Also, a very childish response to a serious accusation.

    • Barbara Angel

      Not defending those nasty cows: just guessing they too, were in ‘survival mode’, they probably Had No choice. Cross Mustravage and end up in the Hole for how many years?

  • TXCowgirl

    Important John Stamos newsflash of the humorous variety:

    • SandiCorrena

      and may I just add thank heaven that beautiful John Stamos is not a scientologist!

      • TXCowgirl

        If only Katie had had a poster of Stamos, instead of Cruise, on her wall in high school….

        • SandiCorrena

          ohhhhh that’s not a bad match…..and it’s never too late to hang a poster!

          • TXCowgirl

            And they would have had comely, tall children. :)

            • Charlotte

              They still can! I’m sure I read somewhere recently that he’s open to sprogging.

      • Rita Gregory

        I always thought he was cute but I didn’t know he was so funny. Sigh….

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      You know it’s been a rough day when even Uncle Jesse is mocking you.

      • TXCowgirl

        I’m imagining a new twitter meme, #ActingIsn’tAsToughAs…”

        • Charlotte

          Miss Tia can make it happen! I’m useless on the Twitter front except for ‘favourite’ing and ‘retweet’ing Miss Tia

  • Noni Mause

    “To a child Scientology is — it’s not something. Look, it’s hard to sit here and say, you know, there is not — in the Catholic Church there is, you know, you have the First Communion. You have, you know, Bat Mitzvahs, Bar Mitzvahs in Judaism. Certainly there are religious rites, but very much so it’s about the application of something or doing — it’s not — you — it’s an applied religious philosophy, meaning it’s something that you study, you learn, and you apply to the degree that — and each individual has a level of application that they want to apply. Just because someone, you know — so when you’re talking about a seven-year-old, you know, it’s not the same thing as — as Catholocism or Judaism. It’s just, it’s different. It’s a different kind of thing.”

    This is just screaming for the Tina Fey/Sarah Palin treatment.

  • GlibWog

    Running in real quick.. Did Sunny post a tent update.. Did SCN meet with the city..? Thanks..

    Been away all day.. xox Glibby

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I don’t see one for today.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      City will allow street closures.

      • i-Betty

        Boo, hiss, other pantomime noises!

  • Jon Hendry

    The focus on Jeanne Yang reminds me a little of Cruise’s supposed fixation on Spielberg’s wife Kate Capshaw in that lengthy ‘account’ of the spilt between Cruise and Spielberg. In that account, Cruise convinced himself that his relationship with Spielberg had collapsed because of Capshaw’s interference.

    If the Cruise-Spielberg account is more or less accurate, I wonder if Cruise has decided that Yang is the root of all his problems with Katie, and this has guided the suspicions of Yang shown in the court materials.

    • OrangySky

      Well, that’s the old 3rd-person rule (or whatever all y’all ex Scienos call it) in Scientology – that any problem in any relationship is due to a third person?

      Damn these troublesome women, with their own ideas and their own lives!

      • Jon Hendry

        I should have known it would come down to old Cyst-head.

      • Narapoid

        3rd party, wog 😉 Funny, the cherch is the biggest 3rd party of all time, won’t acknowledge it though…

    • pronoia

      Well, Yang was originally Cruise’s stylist. Then she teamed up with Katie to do the clothing line — one would assume with Cruise’s blessing and perhaps funding. Isabella worked for them. So the fact that Yang “left” with Katie would give Cruise a convenient scapegoat.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Just woke up – 3 am here – what did I miss?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Tom cruise= jerk?

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Also dumb

        • music8r

          and inarticulate

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            The thing about that is — look, it’s like, when you have… so when some people try to answer with.. You know, they try to communicate with like — words, but not to try to oversimplify with their words, so you have what people call — what some people call — a bullshit answer.

            • music8r

              Words are, like, so counter-intention!

      • Charlotte

        Sorry! Mose sharted and instead of scrolling, it downvoted you. Which is ridiculous, as TC most definitely does = jerk.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Lol…I can handle it.

          • Charlotte

            Didn’t want to sound the troll alarm and call in the trollbusters!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Loll. I love bridges…..and whatever lives under them

      • Eivol Ekdal

        that’s not news! 😉

      • Seannie5

        lol

  • music8r

    I find it ironic that Tom Cruise claims to be highly competent in the art of communication; yet, he is painfully inarticulate. He can’t even deliver a complete sentence.

    • Charlotte

      Is some of it not a deliberate act to avoid being definitively quoted on what Scientology or SP etc mean to him? If he articulates his belief, he can be forever called on it, right? I mean, I absolutely believe he does not have a gift with words, but I wonder if he was instructed to not give anything concrete. If he did, he could be fairly assumed to define certain people as ‘SPs’ or ‘PTSs’ based on his own definitions. If that makes sense. My brain is tired.

      • Rita Gregory

        I don’t think so. He had the same problem communicating his beliefs on the infamous video Scientology tried to take down on the internet.

        • Charlotte

          Oh, I know, it was just a thought based on $ci policy of keeping everything deliberately completely confounding. Fuck, maybe he doesn’t even know the answers?

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            F-bombs now, too? Leah Remini probably just deleted the account she lurks under.

            • Charlotte

              So sorry. I am a potty mouth.

            • Rita Gregory

              It’s a joke. Look downthread.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I don’t really care about swearing, I was joking in reference to the thread below. Sorry

            • Charlotte

              Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy, s’all good.

            • TXCowgirl

              Be careful, someone might have to call the respect police on you!

          • Rita Gregory

            You know now that you mention it, I wonder if he would have the same problem talking about his motorcycles? It would be interesting to see.

    • SandiCorrena

      In his world he is muy articulate – it the rest of the world who is not!!

  • SandiCorrena

    You know if Katie did keep the pap’s in the loop regarding her comings and goings I say good for her; that would give her some McGuyver cred I’d say because in at least the case of dodging the scientologists what could be better? Use the tools you have I say, that’s just smart!…. 😉

    • Rita Gregory

      Little hard for OSA to harass her with papps taking pictures of it!

      • Noni Mause

        They’ll be treating Katie with kid gloves. Not only is she the mother of No.2’s child, but she has information that could hurt them. Badly. There will be a gag order in her divorce settlement for sure. If she and her dad were smart (and we know they are because of the smoothness of Operation Exit) they will have included an anti harrassment clause. In my fantasy, if OSA sets one foot wrong, then Katie Holmes gives them both barrel of EVERYTHING she knows. Nope. OSA won’t be getting close to Katie.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Damn…I got a second wind!

    • Rita Gregory

      Yay! The bunker post police haven’t been around in the last few days afaik. Or they haven’t been bossing everyone around.

      • Rita Gregory

        Unfortunately the language police ARE here.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          But does anyone really care?
          😉

          • Rita Gregory

            Fuck no! 😀

          • TXCowgirl

            Hella NO!

      • Seannie5

        haha i was told that I am an undercover OSA member by a couple of regs a week or so ago – that was funny!
        2 or 3 certainly like to puff their chests out and try and tell you how it’s done around here, but the vast majority are very cool people.

        • Rita Gregory

          “Paranoia strikes deep” around here sometimes, but I do understand why you undercover OSA member you! LOL! :)

        • Charlotte

          We’re a tag team apparently, Seannie. Guess we should compare notes at the next troll OSA AGM. I’m sure my kids would love to meet your dog.

          • Seannie5

            There should be one coming up soon! Lets brainstorm!

            My avi is just a picture I liked, but I do have a black lab!

    • TXCowgirl

      Do you, or anyone, know if KJP in Portland is taking an off-the grid vacation? His (((HUGS)))) are conspicuously absent.

      • Rita Gregory

        According to enthralled observer, KJP is taking a break which he says may be permanent. :( I hope he is lurking and gets his butt back here!!!! There was a dust-up the other night and he was attacked by a couple of people who didn’t like the way he commented. It was hurtful stuff.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Really?

          • Rita Gregory

            Oh ya. I’ll go find it and let you know where to look. I really don’t want to name names.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh wow, it is hard to get through all the comments anymore, ..but I enjoy the newer posters and what they bring to the table. So I am sad to hear this.

            • Rita Gregory

              Yes you’ve really got to scroll down to find them. I think it started out as a misunderstanding and turned into a shit storm. It’s the page with the most recent OT lesson by Claire.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Thanks, I will check it out.

            • Guest

              I think Howdy was the one who stuck the knife in KJP. The people I miss were all bullied off by John P, the last one being that bio-ethics person, where John P got an assist from Eckert.

            • Rita Gregory

              Yes. Awww screw it, they know who they are. Howdy and Theta and kinda SPF but she tried to make amends.

            • Rita Gregory

              Aww. I’m sorry I hate it when people do that.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              So your angle is that John P and Robert Eckert are responsible for driving out major contributors to the Bunker. Yes, I can see that spin working here. Good effort.

            • MaxSpaceman

              And Theta stated her point ‘for’ news/info as opposed to happy-chat. And she stated very forcefully, I think.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Lol, well I guess if they are going to run off a bio- ethics person and the happy chat folks….I am in deep weeds!

              Look folks…no one can make you feel inferior without your consent!
              This blog is about Scientology.

              I don’t recall Tony posting a value scale on people’s participation, despite what a certain group of “elitists” seem to think.
              Carry on. Have fun. And slay the dragon while you are at it.

            • TXCowgirl

              Thank you.

          • Rita Gregory

            Awww screw it, they know who they are. Howdy and Theta and kinda SPF but she tried to make amends.

            • MaxSpaceman

              hinge-ing on koKi, lest one leaves that out …

            • Rita Gregory

              Thank you Max. I’d forgotten exactly who started the storm.

            • MaxSpaceman

              I was on that night. For some reason, I guess cuz it was just my turn, as it were, I was doing the running info-tell of Leah’s dance, live, in real time. So that peeps all over the world could get a feel for what was going on as it was going on.

              Then afterward, KjP popped on with a good eve, high-fives for the guys and hugs for the girls. I completed “reporting” ( I don’t know how to do that so I just saying that cuz well cuz I can right now! andyway, I finished up Leah dance commentary. KjP noted he had a dustup with koKi and had thought that Raynor was a sock puppet and maybe the same poster as koKi.

              And I had thought Raynor was a “spy” cuz one of the Bunker’s intelligence agents called him out, as “Marco”. So- I lit into Raynor, along with a couple of other peeps. (Eventually, BuryTN set the 3 of us straight, and we apologized to Raynor, as a long-time poster.

              Anyway, I think it was Jim3times, me and whomever. Really lit into Raynor. And Raynor was “formidable”, let me say it. Really. Handled the 3 of us pretty well. Which enraged me and I lit into Raynor a little more. Then I kinda drifted away. And KjP I don’t know what.

              So then, a couple days later EO says he is off and maybe permanently. I went back to see what happened. Cuz I missed it. So what it was- the conversation turned to the social aspect of the Bunker vs. the News/info. aspect. And it looks like Theta and Howdy said their piece straight out. And KjP was taken aback by their opinion. That’s the story.

            • TXCowgirl

              I did not mean to re-open up a can of entheta. :):):) Just doing the southern thing and asking after a fellow poster’s whereabouts. Max, you”ve done a nice job of Cliff Note-ing the event. Thx.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Well, Texas CG, I meself have seen like 8 peeps maybe more asking about KjP – so I thought I’d share what I know. Lotsa peeps care about lotsa other peeps. And some peeps don’t like some other peeps, who don’t like those peeps, and so it goes.

              As in any Family of People.

            • Rita Gregory

              What the hell is wrong with people? They act like……. people. :)

            • MaxSpaceman

              Doh!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Bingo…family!

            • Rita Gregory

              Oh boy, just wait till Thanksgiving 😉

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I am sorry, I remember reading the raynor thing the next morning,….but I guess just skimming it. I didn’t realize it got so intense.

              There has been an undercurrent of tension here because of the volume of posts.
              I personally…don’t get that bent about. In fact, I kind of think it is great.
              The bunker will self correct and these spats have always been there.
              Just another day in the family fights.
              😉

            • MaxSpaceman

              I groked that, when I apologized to Raynor. He was very cool about it. And I saw the ebb and flow, and noted to nGirl that it was like big families- sometimes somebody be po’d at somebody now and agin and it like self-corrects, a la BuryTN’s note. :-)

            • tetloj

              Same thing happens at ESMB – I tend to think it follows the news cycle. Very few spats when Tony live blogs for example. This Tom deposition is pretty big news but we have been in a few weeks without major Scientology humiliation. That’s seems to be when we start to eat our young.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yep. I have noticed that too.
              Or if it is a particularly emotional post, people get batty.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Really though, there was a thread on koki’s response to chuckbeatty that drew downvotes and criticism of his big hello. Even Tony weighed in. It was the “Best” of that day’s comments, if you sorted and read the “Best” of, you would have seen and read it fairly quickly.

              KJP drew criticism because he posted ~15 hours later asking if anyone had “heard of” this koki guy who was allegedly harassing him. It wasn’t a good look. I’m sorry he feels like he was attacked, but my advice for anyone is to read at least the “Best” of the day’s comments before you post. Get a feel of what the other posters are talking about before you come in with posts of your own.

            • Rita Gregory

              I think that’s a great idea to check at least the best thread if you don’t have time to wade through all the posts from the beginning. Saves the frustration of having to explain what’s been happening all day.

            • Captain Howdy

              Going for that head cauldron stirrer job, eh Rita?

              If this is a democracy, I cast my vote thusly:

              Freedom of Speech – Yay
              Freedumb of Speech – Nay

              But that’s just my opinion.

              The main problem around here IMO is that some folks think that quantity equals quality.

              And that’s a problem easily solved, isn’t it?

            • Rita Gregory

              Naw, just didn’t think I needed to be so covert. Dumb speech is also covered under freedom of speech. I don’t know who thinks quantity equals quality.

            • Captain Howdy

              “I don’t know who thinks quantity equals quality.”

              Maybe the people who post 30, 40, 50, 60 to a 100 comments daily around here on a fairly consistent basis?

            • Rita Gregory

              Maybe they do. Perhaps you could steer them back to a quality exchange.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              That would be me.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hee-Hee.. don’t encourage them.

              Back to my crypt.

            • tetloj

              Helloooooooooooooo!

            • An Theta

              Happy Putsch Day WWCHD?

            • Captain Howdy

              Ich danke

            • An Theta

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJh4RTy-Lkg
              Pre Code interpretive dance in your honor

            • Captain Howdy

              Wunderbar!

        • TXCowgirl

          Wow. I must have blinked and missed it. :(

        • TXCowgirl

          Found it. I was around for the preambles, but fell asleep shortly thereafter. Understood.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Unknown. I thought I saw him post on john P’s blog recently

        • Rita Gregory

          He did.

  • John P.

    I just posted tonight’s Scientology Daily Digest at my blog. See: http://www.johnpcapitalist.com/2013/11/scientology-daily-digest-friday-november-8-2013/

    I think the key story today is the South African org purge, where the cult declared 18 top donors and staff with decades of experience. There are a number of good analysis pieces from around the web with perspectives for what could be a very significant event that could accelerate decline of the cult outside the US.

    We look at the best comments from Tony’s article today about Tom Cruise’s deposition in the Bauer Media case. This story takes a far deeper look at evidence in the discovery phase of the case than we’ve seen in other press, he says in a piercing glimpse into the obvious. Today, some of the off-topic comments were among the best.

    The Tampa Bay Times ran an article this afternoon suggesting that the City of Clearwater will compromise with the cult on several issues for the upcoming Flag Building ceremony, but if the cult steps out of line there will be trouble on the (arguably far more important) IAS event. Nice to see them develop a modicum of spine.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      You saw spine in that there compromise?
      I done saw some serious capitulation and butt kissin….with phony gravitas ( as an aside).

      • John P.

        More than they had been showing. Not exactly hardass, but a definite improvement.

    • Barbara Angel

      Sounds a little bit Toooooo sooky for my taste, much better to walk softly and carry a big stick. I suspect the City of Clearwater need are trying to sound big and bwave but they are trembling. $Cos is calling the shots for sure.

  • SandiCorrena

    TMZ shared the “acting is like going to Afghanistan” on their FB page; someone posted he’s the white Kayne West…..hahahahahahahahahahaha…..he’s getting lots of “love” in the comments especially from the soldiers!

    • Rita Gregory

      The white Kayne West? Bawahahahahahaha! Glad to see this is in the mainstream media. Blowing up.

      • SandiCorrena

        Wendy Williams was rooting for the magazines in her Hot Topics!

        Edit: Oh and E basically said something to the affect of ahhhhh this may not have been a great idea Tom, they were pretty restrained but still got that point out.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        That is so harsh! I love it!

      • Captain Howdy

        Even though it’s been demonstrated here that Cruise didn’t actually say that, I still think it’s wonderful he’s getting fucked stuck with it.

        • Rita Gregory

          I think it was close enough to stick him with.

  • Lady Squash

    I wish the media would get it right. Leaving Scientology isn’t the crime. At least I don’t think it is. The last Scientology staff person who called, I told them that I was a Christian now and very happy and I don’t get any more calls. Worked like a charm.
    I believe the crime, is Criticizing the church, not leaving the Church. I don’t think you get declared for leaving quietly.

    • Snippy_X

      as long as you don’t ask for a refund.

  • Robert Eckert

    The Huffington Post coverage is a little more thoughtful than HuffPo pieces generally tend to: they talked to Sam Domingo about SP’s and disconnection for some insight into why Tom has to keep his distance.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/tom-cruise-katie-holmes-protect-suri-scientology_n_4240715.html

  • Lady Squash

    I love that McNamara brought up the smears on Bauer by Tom’s team. Asking Tom if he thinks its ethical is priceless. Of course he thinks it ethical, because Hubbard says it is. What a tool! Sad, sad, sad. McNamara: Do you believe such tactics like this after you file a defamation lawsuit and then you seek to gin up press around the world about the company that has nothing to do with the content or the issues in the litigation, do you believe that’s ethical?

    • Robert Eckert

      The smears against Bauer are not just a deposition topic: in the Answer to the Complaint, it was raised as a counter-claim. In theory, a jury could find that Bauer did not libel Cruise, but that Cruise did libel Bauer, and make him pay damages to them.

      • Sarah James

        Might be a learning curve for Cruise…naw, what am I thinking.

        • Rita Gregory

          Better get him some new clay.

          • Sarah James

            Or a frecken ashtray.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Ahhhhhh… now wouldn’t that be sweeeeeeet !!!

      • tetloj

        Thanks Robert for setting the records straight as you frequently do.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I’m going to get in trouble here but so be it . As a wog ( you know ..us bad people who just don’t know what scientology is cause we are so darn stupid and full of unknowingness ) my take is …. good for Katie to have protected her daughter. She saw the cray cray in the controlling cult of scientology ..did not keep blinders on ..not when it came to her kid .She did not choose “powers” for herself over her own child . She protected her chid ..she chose her child ..to all scientologists who lurk/post here who are now crying about not being able to see their kids ..who had stuck with “the tech” no matter what anyone told you ..who kept giving to the cult …you really should be ashamed of yourselves . You gave your kids to these fucking crazy people . Turned them over with pride ..some urged their children to join the Sea Org . You abdicated your own kids …or flat out left them on their own . You did this to your own kids . You had ONE JOB …and you fucked it up . My sympathy is for your children …not for you. You were fine with disconnection until it happened to you . How many times did you swallow the bullshit and disconnect from someone who had left this so called “church” ? Scientologists are assholes

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Can I come over? I can’t sleep!

      • ParticleMom

        It is nice to see you and Kim on the night shift!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Kinda weird, isn’t it.

      • Kim O’Brien

        LOL !! Of course …i will make grilled cheese sandwiches

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Yay!

    • Spackle Motion

      Kim, it is really difficult to see how the parent was also bamboozled and also a victim when they sacrifice their children for their own selfish needs of ‘eternity’. I actually agree with your statement, mostly, because the most important priority when you have kids is the well being, safety, security, and education of that child. But countless Scientology parents choose their own desire for super human ability and/or the promise of eternity over the needs and future of their children. This situation resembles the child that admits they were a victim of sexual abuse to a parent and the parent turns away the child because of denial and/or the parent has something to lose.

      I believe that those spending a lot of money, time, and sacrificing their children appears to be motivated by the self-centered attraction the parent has with Scientology, and its false promises. I am not placing blame here, just trying to put it into a context that I can understand, as abandoning your children into the arms of an abuser is incomprehensible to me.

      I struggle to see that parent as a victim, and I have to remember that every situation is different (although with similar outcomes) and being an armchair critic gives me little leverage to fully understand the situation. My judgments on the matter don’t help the situation because prevention and education are the only preventive methods, not pointing fingers. Asking for answers is between the child and his/her parent(s).

      • MaxSpaceman

        Key to the entire thing, sMotion: “… I have to remember that every situation is different…”

        • Kim O’Brien

          these are your children for crying out loud . I mean c’mon …lemme give you an example that just popped into my head. Every summer ..some fuckwit parent leaves their child in a car seat ..with the windows rolled up ..in a hot car …to “run in ” to the store …only to have their child pretty much cook to death . Do any of us then say …well ..every situation is different or do we think WTF ?? All scientology / ists make me say ..even after years of following Tony ..it always comes back to WTF??!

          • MaxSpaceman

            I know, KimO- I know. But you nor I nor anyone never-in can know what Claire and Marc, and Jefferson, and Jon Atack and all the Bunker heroes were like and what they were going through when they were deep in the mind-fuck-ness. Their universe shifted- and the thinking about their children changed with them. Can’t condem all those parents with a blanket condemnation.

            Every situation is different. No ‘blanket’ can cover this. (But me shut up now, as this is a muy hot potato.)

            • Kim O’Brien

              i know what you mean ..and you are being levelheaded ..i just can’t be when it comes to kids. I come unglued 😉

            • MaxSpaceman

              KimO, I know- it’s a heart-wreck. And it’s hard as hell *not* to go where you took it.

            • Spackle Motion

              Yes, I do too. In particular when parents hand over their children to the Sea Org to raise their own standing in the cult.

              Abandoning children is inexcusable. There’s only redemption at that point, but parents have to come to that conclusion themselves and ask for forgiveness.

          • Robert Eckert

            But there is all the difference in the world between Lori Hodgson, brow-beaten while she was in the hospital, and Derek’s colder-hearted parents.

            • MaxSpaceman

              sMotion: “… I have to remember that every situation is different…”

            • Kim O’Brien

              in theory …yes. But they have one huge thing in common. Scientology

            • Rita Gregory

              I don’t understand it either. Having said that I think it has something to do with children being thought of as thetans in small bodies, who are treated like adults…. Still fucked up though.

            • Spackle Motion

              What really gets my goat are the parents that do not do proper research on the Sea Org and/or one of Scientology’s labor-camp-called-schools. People will do endless research on buying a car or house but not for the school/organization to which they entrust their children?

              I just don’t get that.

            • tetloj

              You have to overcome a signficant amount of cultural and inherited knowledge and instinct about what it means to care for a child to buy LRHs world view.

    • Sarah James

      If only it was cut and dry. My relatives were looking for something more in life. I can not blame them and the consequences suffered…well, I can only feel pity and real sorrow. Scientology is a giant bait and switch. I think everyone here feels a strong need to warn others of the train wreck scientology promises. I know your frustration as I yell about this crap too.

      • Kim O’Brien

        sometimes ..it really is cut and dry . When it comes to a child and a parents obligation to protect them …you just don’t abdicate that to anyone else. Ever.

        • Sarah James

          A lot of scientologists thought they were doing the best for their children and many of them still do. How do you suggest we change the way they think? Because I’ve been trying to come up with a solution since the late eighties.

          • Kim O’Brien

            i have no power to change the way they think ..and neither do you . They think that way because they want to …if their own children are not enough to make them wake up ..nothing can. I have no interest at all in trying to CONVINCE someone that abandoning their child is a bad thing .

            • Sarah James

              They are programed to think a certain way. Look at the women on the video. They are not free to think their own thoughts.

            • Kim O’Brien

              Sarah ..I am going to back off on this one because i know you have suffered . I wish i could reach through the screen and give you a hug .

            • Eivol Ekdal

              …best left to the Scientologists.

          • Spackle Motion

            Wrapping the abuse into a false yet palatable package of “helping others by clearing the planet”, to me, is just the bullshit philanthropic line built into Scientology’s mind control processes designed to placate the parent. But again the problem is that the parents buy into it. It is horrifically sad.

            • Sarah James

              It is bullshit it has always been bullshit. When you have family believing the bulshit it is a whole different story.

    • MaxSpaceman

      I feel your passion, KimO’ – it’s, well, complicated though. Cuz when people do what you stated – turned their kids over with pride to the SeaOrg – those parents were in deep in Orwellian mind-fuck-ness; they thought they were doing the greatest thing in this Solar System, to have their kids go into SeaOrg; like, it was an honor! So, it’s a nightmare, KimO’ – and very difficult.

    • cdub

      Thanks Kim. We’d all be “wogs” here if we could do it again. And Hubbard would have moved on from the Scientology scam to selling patent medicine or something.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i don’t think that is true . I think some of you blame DM for all that ails scientology and would go back to “source” in a NY second

  • media_lush

    DAMMIT…. just got in, hate missing the Tommy Girl lulz posts…. now to start reading what we have here…. in the mean time i did this

    • MaxSpaceman

      Poor fucking Tom Cruize !!!
      Lulz !!

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I really don’t see.. well, maybe not see, but get.. I don’t get why.. why, when you.. with posts like this, what are you trying to say, like, maybe not say.. but you see what I mean with the, what does the yellow bubble mean?

    • tetloj

      Where da fuk u been?

      • media_lush

        …..Fell asleep…. anyway, just a major curry fest outing with friends.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    I just wonder if the TC vs Bauer lawsuit progresses, will Katie be testifying in any way? That could be interesting to hear her reasons why she split.

    • Rita Gregory

      That would be interesting but, I can’t see any reason she would have to testify.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Maybe Bauer will use her to shore up their argument that TC was not spending enough time with Suri, in effect, “abandoning her”?

        • Rita Gregory

          That’s true. Didn’t think of that.

      • Spackle Motion

        I’m sure it was discussed as a strategy by both sides, but she may have been unwilling to help either side, and she’s smart to let this one blow up on its own. Cruise is only hurting himself with this stupid lawsuit, which I’m sure he’s finally beginning to see now.

  • AnyOldName1

    As to the court case, wonder if they will subpoena Katie Holmes? That could be very interesting. Even more fun would be for them to find a way to get BFF lil Davey on the stand……

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      You read my mind!!!!

  • Noni Mause

    Excerpt: TC Deposition, 09/09/2013

    “Ms McNamara: Let’s mark as Exhibit 106 — thank you — an excerpt from http://www.scientology.org which is the scientology website.
    (Exhibit 106 marked).
    BY MS MCNAMARA
    Q. Are you familiar with that, Mr Cruise?

    A. I know there is a scientology website. I don’t know the address.”

    Huh?! Tom “the most dedicated scientologist I know” Cruise, the 2004 IAS Freedom Medal of Valor winner doesn’t know what the main scientology website address is?!

    • Robert Eckert

      He doesn’t go on the Internet at all, probably.

      • Noni Mause

        If you’re meant to be an ambassador, you’re probably meant to be able to point someone to their website.

        • MaxSpaceman

          but he not *that* bright a bulb !

          • TXCowgirl

            Micavige’s wireless rheostat he had implanted into TC’s brain must be dialed down to dim.

      • MaxSpaceman

        amazing, ain’t it. prolly not.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Btw, haven’t seen Moorwalker in a few weeks. You know whassup’? I miss her.

        • Robert Eckert

          We have a lot of MIA

    • MaxSpaceman

      Lying liars who lie (for the greatest good for the greatest # of dynamics) — read Dave Miscavige deposition back when in a case Robert E. could cite. His statements are a complete ***I will answer your questions by doing my best to shit in your face***

  • MaxSpaceman

    Tom Cruize. 51 years old Parent of 7 year old Suri.

    • MaxSpaceman

      ..

    • Unex Skcus

      I’m 60, and have 2 beautiful kids aged 17 and 15. Started late. As a never-in, I’m here for the kids more than anything. Admittedly, both my kids have some ‘issues’, especially following a separation 2 yrs ago (after 22 yrs together). That hurt us all.

      But that’s just nothing compared to the shit that LRH and his followers have inflicted on kids. And I include ‘adults’ up into their twenties as kids too.

      Maybe that’s why I relate to AGP, despite not knowing him from a bar of soap. A sense of ‘moral outrage‘.

      • MaxSpaceman

        This comm of mine you are responding to is incomplete. My attachment Disqus messed up. See? I was meaning to convey that

        – here is a mature parent of 51 years. With a 7 year old daughter.
        – and this is what he is saying and implying.
        – Poor Suri.

        Not casting aspersions on older parents. I am one myself.!

    • Felicity

      What does that have to do with anything? I bet there’s 1000s of fathers if small children even older.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Exactly.
        Disqus messed up my attachment.
        Which I wanted to use to conver- here’s a mature parent. Here is a 7 year old daughter. How competent a parent is he.

        See?

    • Seannie5

      ??

    • MaxSpaceman

      Disqus booted me off. Thought the post was complete. Here the rest of post. Statement was

      – Suri is not a member of C o $
      – Katie has been cut off from Cruize’s other 2 children
      – Implication, Katie is SP
      – Implication, Suri is PTS
      The picture said to me- here’s a 50 year old man – who might have some maturity at that age – with a daughter in 2nd grade. And the reality of the situation portrays a parent with some of the poorest judgment imaginable.

    • MaxSpaceman

      And here is maturity.
      Disqus messed up my attachment. See?
      I was conveying

      – here’s a mature parent with a 7 year old
      – here’s what he believes. here’s what he implies.
      How fit is he?

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Between Leah Remini leaving and now TC has this Scientology controversy widely in the media, it is a HUGE PR disaster for the cult. It really shines the light on Sci’s weird policies. Any few people that were unaware or undecided about Sci, are no longer.

    I think this is major PR damage to the Scientology brand and is another big nail in their coffin.

  • tetloj

    Well, fuck me! I started reading this morning at 8.30am and it is now 3:15 and I have just got to the bottom (with the odd sojourn for follow up pieces). I might – MIGHT – have time to do Mike’s, ESMB, SA blog, John P’s new blog etc before Tony posts again. Now to backtrack for comments that have been added up the thread…

    • Unex Skcus

      ^ Sorta same… looking for Sandy’s “Tent Update”, but haven’t found it yet. If only Discuss had a [Show All Comments] option :( … I could search.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Sunny didn’t put one up today, from what I can see. She was commenting but didn’t have an update. I’m sure she’s due her off days.

        • Unex Skcus

          Thanks for that info, I don’t have much Discuss-ness.

          Nor much ‘compos mentis’-ness either, as I meant Sunny, not my ex-wife (Sandy)!

          I look forward to my daily fix of Sunny’s “Tent Update”, but it can be hard work searching through 1-3 thousand comments!

          Must do Disqus Tech Course © LRH.
          Must do Disqus Tech Course © LRH.
          Must do Disqus Tech Course © LRH.
          (don’t think it involves ashtrays…)

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/08/the-tom-cruise-smear-machine-accusations-from-his-depositin-you-havent-heard/#comment-1114599949

            That’s Sunny’s latest post, if you hover over or click on her avatar, you’ll see the option to “Follow.” Then if you go to My Disqus and to the My Network tab, her posts should appear there.

            I haven’t taken any courses, but still trying to see if my ashtray will empty itself.

            • Unex Skcus

              Too easy!

              Of course, that’s what I always say to my teeenage kids, after I have to get them to fix the TV back to ‘normal’ after they’ve been doing stuff with it.

              Just hafta accept I’m a dinosaur. And this dinosaur caint empty no ashtrays with no bleedin mind.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Well I’m only a younger dinosaur and I can’t do it either, so you aren’t missing anything, good sir :)

            • Unex Skcus

              In the immortal words of Jason Beghe:

              “Show me a motherfuckin’ Clear!”

      • tetloj

        if you ‘follow’ Sunny Sands you can view any comments made recently under my disqus/in my network. Clicking on the grey timestamp next to the name takes you to the appropriate comment.
        edit: thanks Jx3

        • Unex Skcus

          Cheers. You wouldn’t believe I’m a computer programmer, would you? Totally ignorant (and maybe just not that interested) in FB, Twitter, Disgust, et al.

    • Kim O’Brien

      john p has a blog ????!!!!

      • tetloj

        johnpcapitalist.com

        • DodoTheLaser

          Love it.

  • DodoTheLaser

    I know it’s not Sunday yet, but it’s close and funny enough.

    Chill E.B. and sea org girls rapping inside the IAS tent (yes, that tent) in England last fall:

    Chill E.B. – Prove It (Live in England)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EaQT0LBR8I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    • DodoTheLaser

      Here is his point in his own words:

      “Millions of kids and adults
      are told they’re mentally ill and that mental disorders like ADHD or
      Bi-polar are the same thing as having a medical condition like diabetes
      or cancer. I’ve got one thing to say to those pushing this
      pharmaceutical agenda: Prove it!”

      Although, some of it might be valid, the fact that CCHR is scientology’s front group,
      kind of kills the whole appeal and credibility, imo. Plus, I am no fan of rap.

  • Unex Skcus

    Although I think TC is a dickhead – to put it in relatively polite Aussie vernacular – I just didn’t like that tabloid stuff. As far as I’m concerned, they can print it, and those that want to, can read it. I don’t.

    But being the dickhead he is (see, I’m still being ‘realtively polite’), TC makes a mountain out of a molehill. He just can’t bloody help it!

    I’m certainly not a ‘big being’, but I have found it’s useful to ‘let it go‘, ‘let the water pass under the bridge‘. I don’t think TC has any concepts of these things.

    • InterestedinCrazy

      i agree….my only issue as someone who was abandoned by her father (he chose partying, women, drink etc) it won’t be nice for Suri to see in years time that ‘my father abandoned me’ is on the cover of a mag, even if it is a rag….

      I agree with you on the forgiveness etc…it’s one thing all Scions seem to lack: GRACE

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Cruise: Here’s again, when you say “practiced Scientology,” it shows a lack of understanding and respect towards my religion….It shows a lack of respect and understanding for my religion{you just said that}. That is understandable in that it is a minority religion. People don’t know and understand, and of course the way things are reported or taken out of context, like many things, can create this kind of sense of what something is as opposed to people going and finding out and knowing about it themselves. To a child Scientology is — it’s not something. Look, it’s hard to sit here and say, you know, there is not — in the Catholic Church there is, you know, you have the First Communion. You have, you know, Bat Mitzvahs, Bar Mitzvahs in Judaism. Certainly there are religious rites, but very much so it’s about the application of something or doing — it’s not — you — it’s an applied religious philosophy, meaning it’s something that you study, you learn, and you apply to the degree that — and each individual has a level of application that they want to apply. Just because someone, you know — so when you’re talking about a seven-year-old, you know, it’s not the same thing as — as Catholocism or Judaism. It’s just, it’s different. It’s a different kind of thing. McNamara: OK.

    • DodoTheLaser

      McNamara: OK.

      So as the rest of the world.

      Smooth, Tom. Real smooth.

  • Sunny Sands

    Angry Gay Pope left this message at OCMB:

    “There were a couple errors in Tony’s story on me. The main one is I would NEVER
    stick my head in the Hubbard Museum or ever go inside.
    Truth of what happened
    much kookier as usual with the cult. My lawyer told him that in error.”

    • DodoTheLaser

      That’s good news. AGP – stay safe and deliver more rocking videos please.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Is AGP going to tell us the whole (correct) story, then? (Either here or there… whatevs)

      • koki

        yeah,todays Tonys story will have video…
        from AGP.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Awesome! Thanks koki…

        • Rita Gregory

          Very cool. Thanks Koki!

        • tetloj

          Can’t wait. I’ve already spent most of my day here. Man, is there something wrong with me?

          • Rita Gregory

            Yes. It’s called Bunkeritis and it’s a pandemic here.

        • DodoTheLaser

          I always wondered if Nostradamus was from Bulgravia… Now I know. :)

          • DodoTheLaser

            ^^^ Sweet down vote!

            • Rita Gregory

              Sorry Dodo fat finger.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Haha! No prob.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Is there a reason Katie Holmes isn’t being asked her versions of how often TC saw Suri over this time period? And how often he’s seeing Suri now. Surely the lawyers ought to subpoena her for deposition.

    • DodoTheLaser

      May be she signed something to not say anything about Tom ever,
      in exchange for her requirements. Just a guess. But I like what you did here.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Would a gag order trump a subpoena for deposition?

        • DodoTheLaser

          I was wondering the same. Not sure, not a lawyer.

          Katie seems happy though.
          Ironically, she is in S. Africa.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Will have to wait until someone qualified stumbles across the question… :)
            Katie is in Sth Africa… heh… that IS a bit ironic, innit?

            • DodoTheLaser

              Yep.

    • tetloj

      I think they have what they need from Tom

      • EnthralledObserver

        Maybe… probably… a part of me just wants Katie to roast him, I guess. 😉

        • tetloj

          How about a tag team from Katie and Nicole

          • EnthralledObserver

            How GOOD would that be… lol?

            • tetloj

              We should invite Naz too (not to the line – to the – errrr – metaphorical beatdown)

            • DodoTheLaser

              Ha! Also, Cruz and Diaz! Oh the lulz!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Oh hell yes!!!! I knew there were more that might have a beef with TC… he’s such a prick and has evidently been so for a LONG time!

          • Rita Gregory

            I’d pay money to see that.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Get in line… :p

            • Rita Gregory

              Right behind you EO. That’s gonna be a looooooooong line.

          • DodoTheLaser

            And Mimi.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Why not… the more the merrier. Though she did start it all, not sure what she might burn him over.

            • tetloj

              I wasn’t sure the Mimi had much to be bitter about – except being traded in for a younger model.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Mimi got him in. May be she will get him out. Just a thought.

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              Or listen to him talk about becoming a Catholic priest. She probably thought she was doing him a favor getting into Scientology.

              Look up what Bronson Pinchot said about working with TC. tl;dr TC was a loony toon back then when he worked with him in Risky Business.

  • DodoTheLaser

    It’s not Monday yet, but happy smiles can’t be scheduled.

  • Sunny Sands

    AGP and Graham Berry are going to tell the whole story on this blog. AGP also said “Expect some great video of Anti Shirtless Lady (Lissa) lieing like crazy to the cops and boo hooing with full water works. But with me she was an aggressive, wicked witch.”

    • EnthralledObserver

      *is excited*

    • Just Dee

      I read something about that yesterday, someplace? Might have been WWP. But AGP did say he did NOT stick his head in any door, which was interesting…..

  • Xique

    Man, those “inch wives” were too much. I happened to catch them when they aired on TV, back when I was still in. I came undone after hearing them each call there husbands liars. They sounded so rediculous, so rehearsed, and so mean. I guess I have them to thank for getting me to finally , finally snap out of it. And if Jeff is correct in saying that having to do this was difficult for his ex, well then it’s just so , so sad. The photograph of the two them shows us the love they had for each other, undoubtedly. I am sorry, Jeff.

  • tetloj

    Anyone just shooting the breeze, waiting for the next instalment, I’ve been trawling through a Gossip Rocks thread someone linked to earlier about the Tom Cruise/Spielberg ‘break-up’

    Continuing in the thread I’m up to the part (2008) where posters are talking about the Tom Cruise video leak.

    Nice little bit of Sci watching history

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/blind-items/story-mr-moviestar-mr-moviemaker-where-all-went-wrong-page15-51527.html

  • EnthralledObserver

    I wonder what Leah might have to say about how Katie Holmes (and Suri by default) was to be perceived/treated when she left TC and the CO$? SP, or not? Disconnection, or not? Another to depose if required? Even if she’s no help on this case, I bet she’d crack wide open the special privileges afforded TC that don’t apply to other $cienos regarding the SP and Disconnection policies.

  • Just Dee

    If anyone has a spare moment before Tony’s new story, please flag yesterdays worst offender on Craig’s List.
    Thanks!
    http://brownsville.en.craigslist.org/search/ccc?catAbb=eee&query=956+365+4020&zoomToPosting=

    http://brownsville.en.craigslist.org/search/eee?catAbb=sss&query=956+365+4020&zoomToPosting=

    • aquaclara

      Done.

      • Just Dee

        Thank you!

    • Minion Gayle

      Done!

    • Freethinker

      Flagged ’em all.

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      done, jd. cheers!

    • edge

      Flagged all of em!

  • Mike Leopold

    Once again, Tony, you are on the cutting edge of a huge story. I predict that Tom Cruise’s inept (Scientology)

    PR handling will result in an EVEN WORSE PR NIGHTMARE for Tom and his little buddy, Dave. Dave is thinking,

    “If only Tom had slapped some “ethics” into Katie, none of this would be happening!”

  • Mike Leopold

    Tony, once again you’re on the cutting edge of a media brushfire (firestorm?)

    I predict that Tom’s inept (Scientology) PR machine will give this story legs.

    Tom Cruise, his career in shambles, his marriages in shambles, his life in shambles

    ALL BECAUSE OF HIS DEVOTION TO SCIENTOLOGY

    AND DAVID MISCAVIGE.

  • RMycroft

    ..

  • deathtoallpoliticians

    excellent legal analysis all around! i just wanted to take a second and discuss the elements of libel and how, thomas mapother, IV a/k/a tom cruise, being a public figure enters into the legal equation.

    that said: libel is defined as “a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation; a written defamation” (google law definition). broken into elements, it is (1) published (2) false statement (3) that damages the plaintiff’s reputation. this is an all or nothing test in that should you fail on any one element, you lose on your claim. now for the public figure aspect. tom cruise is a public figure in that he is pervasively involved in public affairs be it movies, the cchr or the co$. this makes tom cruise’s burder of proof much higher, i.e. he has to (1) show that he suffered actual damages as no damages will be presumed and (2) he has to prove that bauer acted with actual malice relative to publishing the libelous statement (knowledge of the falsity and/or a reckless disregard for the truth) (new york times co. v. sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964). additionally, tom will no longer only have to prove his claim by the lower standard of preponderance of the evidence; he will have to prove his claim by clear and convincing evidence (more than preponderance of the evidence and less than beyond a reasonable doubt). why is this? because the public figure is presumed to be “fair game” (pun absolutely intended) for public comment. please let me know if there are any questions. cheers!

    ps: it is interesting to note that a person may become an “involuntary public figure” as the result of publicity, such as an alleged white collar criminal who is the news. even if acquitted, said person’s private status is in doubt because of the publicity he/she received from the crime. i am currently pondering how the co$ is going to twist and evilly manipulate this legal theory to somehow try and convince the court to “make it apply to” mosey rathbun…

    • Missionary Kid

      Co$ will certainly go through all the machinations it can to prove Mosey is a public figure. I can imagine the footbullets that will ensue if they try to say that since she appears (and I don’t remember if she did) in any of the squirrelbusters’ video, that it makes her a public figure. I’d love it if they did.

      Mosey has not sought the public limelight, nor has Marty done anything to promote her in the public eye, other than as a girlfriend or spouse.

      As much as we like to think that there is a huge number of people concerned with $cientology, anti-, pro-, and casual onlookers, it is really a small world in the course of things. The only place Mosey Rathbun is an involuntary public figure is in the fair game mind set of $cientology.

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        agreed, mk, agreed. cheers!

      • OrangySky

        They say she’s a public figure because she has a FACEBOOK page! And she posts OPINIONS on it! (Gasp!)

        • Missionary Kid

          {She’s such a meanie! For that, they have the ecclesiastical right to harass her.} Assholes.

        • shasha40

          Yes ! Didn’t you know Lrh invented FB and the technology for it too ! * plays with her broken e-meter, can’t afford a new one *

      • shasha40

        So true, MK . Maybe one day …

    • OrangySky

      Can you explain the difference legally between libel, slander and the kind of libel (I think) that results in tortious interference of business? (sp?) I understand that the latter is also an angle that plaintiffs have taken. But IANAL and am more familiar with UK libel laws, despite being an American.

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        good evening, os! i will try my best to answer your
        questions. i also ask my fellow bunkerites to scrutinize my words and correct
        me as necessary. i have been wrong many, many times before and am sure to have
        just as many errors in my future. that said, i should start off with the common law
        elements of tortious interference of business. they are 1) a valid
        contract or relationship must exist between at least two parties; 2) the third
        party defendant had knowledge or was aware of the contract between the two
        other parties; 3) the defendant intended to convince, induce, or make one of
        the parties to the contract breach the contract; 4) the interference by the
        defendant was not an act that is privileged or protected by the law; 5) a contractual
        breach actually occurred and 6) the non-breaching party suffered measurable
        damages. This is an all or nothing test in that the plaintiff must prove all of
        these elements or the claim will fail.

        libel and slander are both forms of defamation. the
        definition of defamation (as cited by google law) is “the action of
        damaging the good reputation of someone; libel or slander”. libel is the
        act of defaming someone in written or printed form while slander is the act of defaming
        someone orally or in some other transient form (id). normally, a plaintiff must
        prove actual damages to recover from the defendant. however, there are certain
        cases where the defendant’s defamation is so bad that actual damages are
        assumed. this leads into a very special category of defamation called ‘slander
        per se’ and ‘libel per se’. a defendant ‘per se’ defames a plaintiff when they
        (1) falsely accuse the plaintiff of having a loathsome disease (typically v.d.
        such as aids, herpes, etc.); (2) falsely claim the plaintiff engaged in serious
        sexual misconduct (used to be homosexual activity such as sodomy); (3) falsely
        claim that the plaintiff has engaged in serious criminal conduct or (4) falsely
        accuse the plaintiff of incompetence or immorality in his or her business,
        calling, office, profession or trade. in these cases of defamation per se,
        actual damages are assumed and need not be proven by the plaintiff. to answer
        your question directly, i believe you are referring to the fourth special kind
        of defamation per se that applies to someone’s work or trade. if so, did this
        blurb answer your question(s)? if not, please hit me up with more questions,
        os. sometimes i do tend to drone so please forgive me. cheers!

        ps – there are other factors which influence the defamation
        equation such as actual publication of the defaming statement, private versus
        public figure, etc. i have purposefully not gone all out comprehensively to try
        for brevity and clarity of thought. If i have failed, please let me know.

        • OrangySky

          Thank you, DTAP! I guess the bottom line is that Tom Cruise loses across the board, unless somehow he can prove that Bauer meant “abandoned” in some sort of criminal capacity.

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            no worries, os. but did i answer your question(s)? that is my concern…but, yes, i do not know why his lawyers advised him to pursue this suit. never mind the chances of winning, which are slim to none, but the dirt that was going to come out via discovery, deposition, direct and cross! that alone should have made tom cruise accept bauer’s apology and move on. i wonder how dwarvenfuhrer figures into this because you know he has to…anywho, have a good one, os. cheers!

            • shasha40

              TC : Those rags are writing a story I don’t like . Fix it Dave , not feeling too cause over matter lately , gotta do some solo sec checks !
              Tiny dick : Right on it Tom! * calls lawyers and micro manages*
              Bunkerites : Rofloao , then start balling thinking of Suri ….

  • Anon

    Tom Cruise takes courses on “Communication” in Scientology, and then admits in a courtroom that he does not see his own daughter because he is too busy filming, and also compares his acting job to that of a person who is in the military. What the hell has David been doing to Tom? Toms marriages have been completely destroyed, and he is now completely (emotionally) disconnected from his own biological child and DOES NOT EVEN REALIZE IT. Tom has no excuses. I feel so bad for Suri, the day will come when she reads these documents and its going to suck “This is how my father sees me? as some disposable person” I really wish her and Katie all the best.

  • Talbot Munce

    Whether you like Cruise or not, magazines like “In Touch” are just spiteful and seedy little rags for miserable women who enjoy wallowing in other people’s misery. They are a scourge. I hope Cruise wins and puts it out of business. It’s all it deserves.

    • Barbara Angel

      Tabloids are what they are, but Talbot are you sure they are just for miserable women? Cruise is a spoilt little Shit who promotes an Evil Cult that shreds families causing MASSIVE pain and grief. This same Evil Cult also has an insane greed for Moneeeeeeeeeee and will stop at nothing to get more; this includes driving people to Bankruptcy, working people until they drop for little or NO PAY!, housing the same people in substandard housing with substandard nutrition = beans and rice for weeks on end.

      Oh in case you didn’t know children as young as 6 are expected to haul rocks and do other heavy labour duties. All the while the Psychotic; Alcoholic Self-Imposed Dictator is sitting on ***ONE BILLION DOLLARS***

      So yeah mate, whether we like that little shit or not, he decided to try and bully a Tabloid the same way he bullies those starving unpaid staff mentioned above, this time it Back Fired. Once again the spoilt little shit fired yet another Foot Bullet or two and we are All laughing at him……

      Please tell him that from me. Maybe its time for Darling Tom to take responsibility for some of the misery he is causing?

      He enjoys free usage of the free unpaid slaves mentioned above and is known to have beaten some of them physically. Some of those people are lucky to be paid $40-$50 per week for a 100 hour working week. But Darling Tom, could not give a shit. He has no respect for others and as such his audience is losing respect for him.

      The best part is Katie got Suri away from the CULT.

      Mate, we would all love to hear more on what you have to say about the CULT please? Perhaps you could explain to us the Disconnection Policy and the agonizing pain this causes families, but most of all could you explain to me, right now, right here………..What is Mustravages Obsession with Moneeeeeee and why he is willing to continue with his cruel tactics destroying anyone and everything unless he gets Moare Moneeeeeeeeee??????? This could be the beginning of a fascinating discussion. Over to you Talbot Dear. Much Love Barbara Angel. XOXOXOX

    • shasha40

      Just some of the reasons we Dispise $cientology and it’s Freedom Ragazine !!! TC , for Xenu & Suri’s sake , Stop being outraged by Tiny fists causes , they’re Not the same as yours , you get the tabloids and the fan things. Tiny dick does Not , only through coersive measures . Read the Bunker , No Spin , just facts , and you get to make your own choice in the end !
      PS , PSS ( OT ‘s Eyes Only !!!) PSSS , ( Soopa Power OT’s Only !!!) * nudge * , ( this one’s for you TC ) Always know what your lawyers are doing on ” your” behalf . You’ll have better answers than , I don’t know and you can decide whether to tell the truth from there . Oh , again , ” Your choice ” ; ) . Wog World’s not all bad

      • Talbot Munce

        Wow! So you despise Scientology. I get that. And by bringing down Cruise – the self elected Jesus – you somehow aim to bring down the entirety of Scientology?

        Well I’d say Cruise is doing a pretty good job of bringing it down all by himself. Why resist him? And if he takes down something else that deserves to get gone – such as “In Touch” magazine, then good luck to him.

        By the way, your posting is as demented as it is unreadable. You sound WORSE that the people you profess to despise.

  • shasha40

    Brainwashing is not the word. That video says it All though . these women talking about their ex’s , vehemently calling them liars. I’ve read their stories ladies and will be Happy to read and believe yours to when you get out . Namaste’

  • http://www.jackejett.com/ Jack E. Jett

    It is hard for those of us who live outside the bubble (Scientology/Celebrity) to understand why any man with the amount of money Mr. Cruise has would opt to spend a minute away from his precious daughter during this stressful time. I have known of many men and women who must work 2 jobs the make ends meet but would move heaven and hell to have 1/2 hour to spend with their child even if it were in a park or hotel lobby.

    The fact that Cruise opts to make a few million more (for whatever reason) is far from an excuse and the fact he attempts to use it AND spend time and money in a ignorant lawsuit is simply more proof of his priorities.

    All children are created equal and many children are far worse off than Suri so my sympathy level is low for her. However, it is simply laughable that anyone would buy an ounce of what Cruise is selling. Laughable.

    • JackTheGiantKiller

      True words have never been said.

    • Yehn

      But its not only about money, I dont defend the guy, cuz I know he is not allowed to see her cuz church policies, but you if you have a a job you need to go even if you are rich. So I say thats not a really good way to blame him cuz everybody do that, specially actors and public people that work for short periods of time and if they dont show up they screw the whole production schedules, and other people time, its not about I am rich and I do as I want. But in his case we know he is lying that girl is probably PTS along with her mother anf family, and a mayor star can not be with SP.