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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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LIVE FROM TAMPA: The Garcia v. Scientology Federal Fraud Lawsuit Mini-Trial!

TampaCourtGreetings from Tampa, Florida, where we’re on the scene for an unusual and potentially very entertaining evidentiary hearing in a fraud lawsuit that’s been derailed by accusations of unethical conduct.

We’re anticipating that it will be a fairly grueling day for former Scientologist Brian Culkin as he’s probably going to be something of a hostile witness to both sides that want to question him today. And there’s a lot at stake — Scientology is asking the court to disqualify Ted Babbitt and Ron Weil, the attorneys for Luis and Rocio Garcia in their lawsuit that accuses the church of fraudulent behavior.

But first, we want to warn readers that we’re up against some difficult conditions today which will definitely affect our ability to provide live coverage. According to federal court rules, we can’t bring our equipment into the courtroom, and that means we’ll be dashing across the street to type up our handwritten notes at every break. That will likely result in long periods of inactivity punctuated by rapid updates, and we know that can be frustrating. But we’ll do our best to convey what’s happening so that you get a real sense of the action.

So now, we’re going to provide a quick history of this case so new readers can get up to speed. In January, California residents Luis and Rocio Garcia filed their lawsuit against the church, saying they’d been defrauded by Scientology’s fundraising schemes and by a sham refund policy that kept them from getting any donations back. They’d given around $400,000 to the church in donations as high-level members, and they say they were particularly rooked in schemes to raise money for the “Super Power Building” — a project that has raised somewhere around $200 million for a project that still hasn’t opened 15 years after it first broke ground. Scientology denied the allegations, and said that a federal courthouse was an improper venue for arguing over refunds; it asked Judge James Whittemore to decide that the Garcias should submit to church arbitration and the lawsuit should be dismissed. Whittemore hasn’t made a decision on that motion, but it’s hard to believe that he’d go through with today’s evidentiary hearing if he was only going to throw the case out of court and force the Garcias to submit to Scientology’s in-house arbitration.

So what is today’s hearing about? Well, as we’ve seen in so many other cases (including the one going on in Texas), one of Scientology’s classic delaying tactics is to move to disqualify the attorneys on the other side — usually a rare move in non-Scientology litigation.

In this case, Scientology has asked Judge James Whittemore to disqualify Garcia attorneys Ted Babbitt and Ron Weil because they employed an attorney named Robert Johnson to locate and interview possible new plaintiffs for the lawsuit. Johnson worked on matters for the Church of Scientology from 1982 to 1998, and so Scientology today is saying it was improper for him to work on Luis Garcia’s lawsuit against the church. The Garcia team answered back that Johnson’s knowledge about Scientology was general, not specific to the Garcia matter, and that he had only helped recruit new plaintiffs, and had not contributed to any of the litigation in the Garcia suit.

Central to the church’s motion to disqualify Babbitt and Weil was a declaration by former church member Brian Culkin. The church believes that Culkin witnessed Johnson working on the Garcia litigation itself, but since the church introduced his declaration, Culkin has proved to be an unwilling participant — he even hired Ray Jeffrey to be his attorney, the San Antonio lawyer who is giving Scientology fits in the Monique Rathbun harassment lawsuit.

So one thing we’ll be watching closely today is how much the church and the Garcia team each get out of Culkin. Will the church be able to prove that Babbitt and Weil made improper use of Johnson? Or will the Garcia team show that Johnson was used only tangentially, and that his knowledge of decades-old Scientology lawsuits does not give the Garcia team an unfair advantage.

Another person who may be important to today’s hearing is former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder, who had been helping out the Garcia team and Johnson to find new potential plaintiffs. Based on a motion filed this week by the church, it’s pretty obvious that the church thinks Rinder is central to its case. And if they put him on the stand, we could be in for some pretty entertaining testimony. OK, enough preliminaries. Set your comments to “Newest” for best results, and watch below for live updating — when we can get out of the courtroom and provide you with information.

 
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Posted by Tony Ortega on October 3, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

NEW LIVE POSTS WILL APPEAR BELOW HERE….

7:18 am

Good morning, Bunkerites. First piece of news this morning. When we landed in Tampa yesterday, we got the news that Judge James Whittemore had denied Scientology’s motion for a continuance. So we will have a hearing today.

Also, we’ve been told that at the federal level, judges tend to take charge of these things, so we may see Whittemore putting witnesses on the stand, questioning them, and getting things done. A member of his staff tipped us off that the man is not a big fan of breaks in the action. That’s bad for us, but it means more gets accomplished, we suppose. We’re on our way now to get our equipment set up across the street from the courthouse.

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8:30 am

And we’re in place. We’re about to walk over to the courthouse and go upstairs. We’ll only have a pad of paper and a pen with us. As soon as we can get a break, we’ll run back to our mini-Bunker setup to get you some updates. Until then, please be patient.

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12:10 pm

We’re now out on lunch break after what appeared to be a pretty disastrous morning session for the Church of Scientology in its attempt to get the attorneys for Luis and Rocio Garcia disqualified.

Judge James Whittemore is not amused. OK, we have an hour to get back into the courtroom. So we’ll start at the beginning…

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12:14 pm

Courtroom 13B of the Tampa federal courthouse is a very large space, but with only a small portion for observers. Once again as in Texas, the defendant’s side of the room is filled with folks in dark suits.

We count 15 suits, just like in Texas (not all are attorneys). Michael Hertzberg is here, Monique Yingling, Eric Lieberman, Kendrick Moxon. And their lead attorney here today, Wallace Pope.

On the plaintiffs’ side, Luis and Rocio Garcia are here, who we are meeting for the first time. Their attorneys Ted Babbitt and Ron Weil are here, with two associates. Also Robert Johnson, the attorney at the center of the dispute is here. And Mike Rinder.

And hey, it’s Brian Culkin! Wow, we wish we could squeeze into a suit that stylish. The yoga instructor is looking quite fit. It’s nice to finally meet him.

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12:20 pm

Judge James Whittemore has entered the courtroom, and he lets us all know right away that he is all business this morning.

“I have read everything you have submitted,” he says to both sides. “I don’t want a bunch of rhetoric. Keep your case succinct.”

At this point, before he starts to present the church’s case, Wally Pope asks to “invoke the rule” — in other words, ask potential witnesses to leave the room. A simple request, you’d think. But Whittemore challenges Pope on it. Which authority is he appealing to in order to remove witnesses?

Pope appears stunned. He indicates that he thought it was an assumed power.

Whittemore: “Well, we learn something every day.”

Pope explains that he doesn’t want Mike Rinder and Robert Johnson — who have worked together on the Garcia team — to be in the room at the same time when they are testifying.

Whittemore is getting increasingly impatient. “What in the world do they not know about each other at this point?” he asks.

But Babbitt indicates that he has no objection, and the judge relents, allowing the witnesses to leave.

But the Judge isn’t through setting a “tone,” as he calls it…

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12:22 pm

“Let me set a tone,” Whittemore says to both sides. “The burden on the defense is high,” he continues, and again says he wants no rhetoric. This isn’t a trial. There’s no jury to play to.

We’re only about five minutes into this thing and the situation seems pretty plain to us: Whittemore thinks the church’s case for kicking out these attorneys is a joke, but he’s going through the motions of an evidentiary hearing in order to fend off an appeal. And he’s ready for this thing to be over before it’s already begun.

If we were Wally Pope, we’d be sweating bullets. And we would not want to waste a second with the time the judge has allotted him — which is only an hour and a half.

So what does Pope do? Squander time like it’s going out of style.

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12:26 pm

Wally Pope calls his first witness: former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder.

Hey, this should be exciting, right? Mike Rinder, formerly one of the top members of the church, and one of its biggest critics in the last few years, and now the church has him on the witness stand and under oath? Fireworks, right?!

Um, no.

After asking Mike some basic information about himself, Pope begins to read from documents in a giant binder of exhibits. Do you remember this document? Did you sign this? Did you refer to yourself as the senior official over the church’s litigation?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

With excruciating detail and a glacially slow pace, Pope establishes that Rinder was in a position to know a lot of the church’s legal secrets over many years. Really, there was only one thing that Rinder disputed…

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12:33 pm

Church attorney Wally Pope wants Mike Rinder to admit that the reason people are hiring him to consult on legal cases is that he was privy to attorney-client conversations in the years he oversaw Scientology litigation.

But Rinder says he’s in demand for his total knowledge of Scientology, something he got into as a kid. Attorneys, like the rest of us, have a hard time negotiating Scientology’s lingo and policies, and he can help them get through it.

Clearly, Pope is trying to establish that Rinder was a sort of quasi-lawyer, and was privy to secret info that could help the Garcias unfairly. And in particular, Rinder was involved with an attorney who helped him develop an enrollment form that Scientologists sign, and that is an issue in this case.

By introducing what he knew about that enrollment form — that it was a sham which was designed to keep Scientologists from being able to get a refund — Rinder was violating the attorney-client confidentiality he had with the lawyer who helped him develop the form, wasn’t he?

Was it privileged communication? I guess so, Rinder said. But then he explained that he and the attorneys weren’t the only ones who knew about it — it was David Miscavige who also was included in those talks.

We see what you did there, Rinder. He managed to get into the record that David Miscavige was well aware that Scientology’s enrollment form is designed to keep members from getting refunds.

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12:36 pm

You were a dedicated Scientologist, weren’t you? Yes. And you protected the information of the church? As a Scientologist I did, yes, Rinder answered.

So now Pope began bringing up non-disclosure agreements that Mike Rinder had signed as a Sea Org member as early as 1980. Rinder and Marty Rathbun have each told us that they signed such agreements over the course of their careers, but it hasn’t stopped them from speaking out since they left the church. And the church, they both point out, has done nothing about it.

But now Pope painstakingly went through decades-old agreements that Rinder signed.

The agreements required that Rinder would never disclose information about the church. “You would agree that ‘never’ has not yet expired?”

Clever, Wally.

“I agree,” Rinder answered.

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12:39 pm

And now, an interruption by Judge Whittemore:

“Why are we reading from documents? Let’s get to the heart of the matter, please.”

What are the relevance of these old agreements, the judge asks, and it’s pretty obvious that well into the hearing now, Pope hasn’t really scored a single substantive point yet. MIKE RINDER ISN’T A LAWYER. It just doesn’t matter what information he brings to the Garcia team, our friend Scott Pilutik had pointed out to us earlier.

“Gentleman, this is about disqualifying attorneys…That’s why I tried to set the tone at the start,” Whittemore said.

I will move on, your honor, Pope said.

Whittemore: “I don’t mean to be sharp, but this is a very delicate matter.”

Yeah, that’s true judge. But you have to understand, SCIENTOLOGY TRIES THIS TACTIC EVERY SINGLE TIME. Oops. Sorry for the interruption. OK, back to the action…

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12:40 pm

At this point, even Wally Pope has to acknowledge how bad things are going, and he was reduced to this…

“Your honor, I was sincere in filing this motion.”

And even Whittemore has to take pity on him: “I don’t have a problem with the filing. But I want to get to what’s important.”

So Wally Pope then does the right thing and…

…pulls out another document to read from.

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12:45 pm

Amazingly, Pope goes right back to wasting time reading from documents, and plodding along with Mike Rinder on the stand.

He now focuses on what Mike Rinder has been getting paid. As a consultant, he’s been getting 175 an hour, not to exceed 5,000 a month to help Babbitt and Weil in the Garcia case.

Did you reveal to them that you had signed non-disclosure agreements with the church? Rinder said it had probably come up, but he’s been talking publicly about the church for years, and Scientology has done nothing about it. And the church had never given him copies of the agreements he had signed.

Pope now tries to score points against Rinder, which might have been really cool if Rinder was actually on trial or something: “So your attorneys were willing to pay you 175 an hour for information you’d already put on line?”

Rinder: “Oh, absolutely,” he says, and explains that the Scientology lingo, the policies of the church, these are things attorneys are happy to pay him to help them understand.

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12:47 pm

And if Pope wanted to make it look like Rinder was somehow fleecing attorneys at a huge rate, he really flops when Rinder then explains that since the disqualify motion had been filed in May. The case has been at a standstill since then, and he hasn’t made a dime from the Garcia case in the last four months.

And you prepared for this hearing. Will you be compensated for that? Pope asks.

No, Rinder answers.

And for some reason, Pope again takes us into Rinder’s billing and not being paid. WHY, WALLY, WHY? WHAT IS THE FREAKING POINT?

Adding up all of Rinder’s billing from August 2012, it comes to 21,450, is that right? Yes, Rinder says.

Is Wally trying to figure out who’s buying lunch?

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12:51 pm

When Pope begins boring into another document, Whittmore interrupts again.

I don’t think there’s any dispute that he’s worked for this lawyer for months, Whittemore says. I will remind you that you have an hour and a half. You need to show the confidential information that went from him to the lawyers, and you haven’t even begun to do that.

OK, Pope says, and he goes back, once again, to the document. It’s a privilege log, which describes emails that Rinder sent to the attorneys. BUT THE DOCUMENT DOESN’T CONTAIN THE INFORMATION IN THE EMAILS THEMSELVES.

Wally Pope is apparently expecting Judge Whittemore to ASSUME that the emails contain confidential information based merely on their subject titles.

Rinder: “You don’t want me to tell you what they are?” he says, with an unbelieving smirk.

Pope: “Well, they’ve been alleged to have been confidential.”

And that’s it! That’s the end of the Church of Scientology’s opportunity to question Mike Rinder under oath in a court of law! Oh my.

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12:56 pm

Ted Babbitt then had a chance to cross-examine Rinder, and you can imagine how it went. Did you give us confidential info. No. Did you talk to the press about these things before you talked to us. Yes. Has there been any enforcement of the non-disclosure agreements that you signed. No.

Tell us about that enrollment form that you exposed in a previous case. Why did you do that?

I didn’t think anyone would actually try to sue over it, but when they did, I felt I had to speak up about what I knew, Rinder answered.

Babbitt himself ran into the Whittemore buzzsaw when he tried to bring up the disqualify motion in the Monique Rathbun case getting denied.

“Doesn’t matter. I don’t care what’s in the past,” the judge said, interrupting Babbitt.

After a brief redirect, from Pope (Are you saying you’ve decided what is attorney-client privileged information and what isn’t? Yes.) then Mike Rinder stepped down.

Now it was time for Robert Johnson to take the stand.

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12:58 pm

Robert Johnson worked as an attorney for the church from 1982 to 1998, he said in his affidavit. But that wily Wally Pope now has billing records which shows he was still getting paid into the summer of 2000!

And didn’t the Garcias give 144,000 to the Super Power project between 1998 and 2000? J’accuse!!

Mr. Johnson you are now representing the Garcias in their attempt to get money back that they donated to CSRT [a church trust] while YOU represented CSRT, is that correct?

GET THE LEG CHAINS!

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1:00 pm

Yeah, sure, Johnson admitted. But he denied that he’d made the 1.8 million the church said he billed over his career as an attorney.

Johnson and Pope then spar for a while over what he really made versus what his firm made.

And again, we are wondering, when David Miscavige is paying for 15 suits over there, is no one able to clue Pope in to stick to the point?

Pope also tried to get Johnson to say that he’d worked refund cases. And that while he worked on the purchase of land for Super Power, there had been delays.

And isn’t the Garcia case about refunds, and about the delay of the Super Power Building!

BRING IN THE IRON MAIDEN!

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1:05 pm

Well, no. Robert Johnson had a very laconic, drawn-out way of answering questions, and for everything that Pope tried to stick him on, he gave lengthy responses that really, the truth was more complicated than Pope was making it out to be.

Much of the attention during Johnson’s testimony was about the biggest refund case he handled, Williams v. Scientology, but here, Johnson scored serious points. In Williams, the case was about a dentist who was hoodwinked by WISE — a Scientology front group that preys on dentists and chiropractors — and he and his wife were suing because they felt they’d been targeted and defrauded and had never wanted to be part of Scientology. (At least that was what we took from the testimony.)

The Garcia case is so completely different, we can’t believe Pope was getting into Williams at all. The Garcias were loyal, longtime Scientologists who had given hundreds of thousands in donations, but eventually realized that the unfinished Super Power Building was being used as a shill to get their money.

And that’s the point, Johnson and Babbitt said on Johnson’s cross — Just because Johnson used to work for Scientology back in the day, and even though he’s switched sides, the Garcia case is so totally different on the facts than anything he ever worked on in the past, it was clearly not a violation of Florida rule 4.19 for him to work on the Garcia case. (Hey, that’s what Scott Pilutik told us!)

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1:08 pm

We’re running out of time and we need to get back to court. We’ll just tell you about our favorite moment during Johnson’s testimony.

Pope had tried to make the parallel that Johnson had represented the church when there were delays purchasing the land for the Super Power building, and delays in Super Power are also involved, somewhat in the Garcia case. Babbitt had denied that, saying that the Garcias don’t want their money back because the building is delayed, but because the building was used fraudulently to take their money.

“The Garcia case is about the building as a shill,” Babbitt said.

And Whittemore asked: “When you say a ‘building,’ do you mean a building?”

Oh judge, if you only knew.

OK, out of time. Have to get back to court. Back as soon as we can!

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3:01 pm

We’re back! OK, lots to get to. Where were we?

Oh yes, Wally Pope was questioning Robert Johnson, the attorney at the center of the controversy. Scientology attorney Wally Pope was trying to advance the line that because Johnson had worked for Scientology entities from 1982 to 2000, he had surely been told secrets that he shouldn’t reveal because of attorney-client privilege. But Johnson continued to say that the knowledge he had used for the Garcia case was purely general.

After a ten minute break, it was Ted Babbitt’s turn to cross-examine Johnson. Again, the issue of a big case that Johnson had handled for Scientology, involving the dentist Williams, became the focus. Babbitt and Johnson talked about how different the facts were there than they were in the Garcia case.

They then talked about the Super Power Building. Wally Pope seemed to be making the case that when Robert Johnson represented the church in the purchase of the land for the building, there had been delays. And weren’t delays to the SP Building central to the Garcia case? Well, after Johnson stopped representing the church, it was Wally Pope who took over representing Scientology in matters related to the Super Power Building. And Babbitt used that for a fun little jab…

“If the delay to the building became an issue in this case, who would be a more likely material witness — you, or Mr. Pope?”

Hardy har har. But we wondered if Babbitt should keep in mind Judge Whittemore’s impatience for rhetoric. Watch it, dude!

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3:04 pm

Babbitt and Johnson then discussed the Florida Bar rule that is central to this motion — rule 4-19. Johnson said that he had reviewed it before getting involved in the case.

He and Babbitt then discussed how he never went near violating the rule. He hadn’t disclosed anything confidential to the other attorneys. He was only referring to information that is available widely.

“Information that Mr. Ortega has widely published,” he said as an example.

Oops! There we go again, getting the Bunker prime time exposure. Yowza.

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3:07 pm

On re-direct of Johnson, Wally Pope asked a question that he apparently didn’t know the answer to. (Isn’t that a lawyer no-no?)

He asked a question that was apparently supposed to get Johnson to admit that he’d only switched sides against one client — Scientology.

“Were there any other clients that you’ve taken an adverse position to?” Pope asked.

Johnson thought about it for a moment, and then said yes, there were. “Government entities.”

Of course! Jeez, what else is the point of representing government agencies except for later litigating against them in court! Pope should have known that.

Well, that was the end of Robert Johnson’s tenure on the witness stand, and now Pope was running out of time. Who was he going to call? Are you ready?

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3:10 pm

No, it wasn’t Brian Culkin. Wally Pope called Peter Mansell, an executive at Flag, so he could answer a few questions to authenticate some documentation of Johnson’s billing history.

The only interesting moment with Mansell on the stand was when Babbitt, on cross-examination, asked him about the photo of the Anon that was included in Mansell’s affidavit — you know the one, where an Anon is holding up a sign asking people to call Ted Babbitt to become part of the lawsuit. Babbitt got Mansell to admit that he had no way of knowing if Lynn, the Anon, had ever talked to Babbitt, or if Babbitt had anything to do with that promotion of the lawsuit (which he said he didn’t). Otherwise, Mansell was a bust.

And then we broke for lunch.

When we came back, it was the Garcia team’s turn.

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3:14 pm

So with the church’s case finished — and yes, they never called Brian Culkin, whose declaration seemed central to their motion when it was first filed — it was now Babbitt and Weil’s turn to defend themselves from disqualification.

Babbitt initially asked the judge if they needed to present testimony at all. Perhaps their affidavits would speak for themselves. But then Babbitt took a hint from Whittemore and took the stand himself, with Weil asking the questions.

Babbitt briefly described his 48-year career, and that he’d never been the subject of a disciplinary action. That he would never allow someone like Johnson or Rinder to share attorney-client information with him. Rinder has merely helped him locate documents that are helpful. Johnson has just interviewed potential new clients.

One interesting tidbit: Babbitt says he was involved with the case because a previous attorney had pulled out, worried that taking on the church and its litigation tactics would subject him to harassment.

Not everyone, in other words, is willing to take on a case like this, Babbitt was saying. Yeah, and look where it got him!

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3:18 pm

Wally Pope then cross-examined Ted Babbitt, and tried to get him to admit that with so much confidential information that Robert Johnson and Mike Rinder were exposed to, didn’t it make it difficult for him not to receive some of it? No, Babbitt said, and he explained how he worked, and again, what he was using these people for.

Ron Weil then took the stand and largely went over the same ground that Ted Babbitt did.

And that was it. Their side of the case was over.

And then Judge Whittemore said, “Let’s discuss this.”

Then he pointed out something rather interesting. Ted Babbitt and Ron Weil are the Garcia attorneys of record, and Scientology’s motion is asking Whittemore to remove them from the case. But the REASON for doing so is based on what Robert Johnson, another Garcia attorney, had done previously for the church.

But if he agrees to the motion, and removes Babbitt and Weil, that won’t affect Robert Johnson. I can’t remove him from the case, Whittemore pointed out.

Um, hey judge, you have a point there!

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3:22 pm

Your honor, you could enjoin Mr. Johnson from the case, Wally Pope helpfully suggested.

I don’t know of any authority that would let me do that, the judge answered.

It was an interesting technicality, and Whittemore explained that it had only dawned on him this morning.

He then asked Pope to sum up his argument for the motion. He largely went over the same ground, that Johnson and Rinder had served the church for so long, they had to have detailed, confidential information that would be imputed to Babbitt and Weil. And even if they hadn’t divulged that information yet, there was an “appearance of impropriety,” Pope said.

For all those reasons, Wally wrapped up, they should be disqualified.

It was then Babbitt’s turn, and he smartly reminded the judge what Whittemore had said earlier — that there was a high burden of proof for something as serious as a disqualification motion.

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3:25 pm

And Babbitt pointed out that Rule 4-19 required two things. First, that the lawyer switching sides had to be involved in a case that was the same, or “substantially similar” to the case he’d previously handled. And if that was the case, then the second test was that he had actually imparted confidential info.

But the work Johnson did for the church more than a decade ago was NOT substantially the same, Babbitt said. And he hadn’t imparted confidential info.

“They have failed to meet their burden,” he said.

This matter has been an extraordinary distraction, involving hundreds of hours of work and a day in court, Babbitt pointed out. “This is why most attorneys don’t take on clients like this,” he said to finish up.

Then Pope came back with a real howler.

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3:27 pm

Even though Scientology had just spent six months trying to get Ted Babbitt and Ron Weil kicked out of a case for unethical behavior, here’s what Pope said as his final word…

It was never our contention that Weil and Babbitt conspired to do something wrong. Our position is that Rinder and Johnson know so much, they couldn’t help but give confidential information to two really fine attorneys.

Oh sure, NOW you kiss their asses, Wally, after costing Luis and Rocio Garcia untold thousands in legal fees. Keerist almighty.

And that was it. Now, it was Judge James Whittemore’s turn.

And he sat there, thinking. And thinking.

For like five minutes.

Whoa.

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3:33 pm

“I’ll make some general observations,” Whittemore began.

If it were not for the professionalism and civility of the lawyers and their reputations involved here, I would not have conducted this hearing, he began.

Um, wow.

You have done what you should do in this situation, he told them, and I appreciate that. Mr. Pope, Mr. Potter, Mr. Babbitt, Mr. Weil. Mr. Fugate, these are good lawyers. I heard an appeal one time by Mr. Pope and he seriously whipped my fanny, he added. He and Mr. Fugate, he pointed out, had shared clients or something.

Anyway, the point he seemed to be making, at least for this observer was, listen, Wally, I know you work for a complete dickweed who wants you to file bogus crap like this, but I appreciate that you did what you had to do, and you all conducted yourselves properly in my courtroom.

That was our reading, anyway..

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3:37 pm

The words Whittemore actually used were that the motion was an “unpleasant and distracting matter.”

In the course of this hearing, no one has mentioned Mr. and Mrs. Garcia. It is their case. They chose their lawyers to represent them. I didn’t want it to be overlooked that that’s where this case starts, he pointed out.

A disqualification motion is a drastic remedy which should be resorted to sparingly, he added.

He then pointed out that there was no dispute that Robert Johnson had represented the Church of Scientology for a long time, from 1982 to 2000. But the real bulk of that work ended earlier, in 1998. And of course, as an attorney, he would have received confidential information.

“That does not necessarily mean that years and years later that information was used to the disadvantage of a former client,” he said.

So the judge then took a look at rule 4-19 to see if Johnson violated it.

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3:40 pm

“I’m deliberating out loud,” he said, and every person in the room was on the edge of their seat.

First, he pointed out, Johnson had clearly represented a client he was now adverse to. But was the current case “substantially similar” to the cases he’d handled for the church?

“Clearly it is not,” the judge said.

The Garcia case and the earlier case involving the dentist were just not the same at all, he pointed out.

“There’s been no evidence presented that these prior representations have anything to do with the Garcia case.”

“This is not a case of a lawyer simply changing sides.”

We couldn’t help taking a peek over at Monique Yingling. Nope. No indication that this thing was going down the tubes…

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3:45 pm

The judge continued: There was no evidence that Robert Johnson had breached confidentiality. There was no evidence that confidential information is being used to the disadvantage of a former client.

Scott Pilutik had previously told us he was interested to see if the judge would consider the Morgan Stanley v. Solomon case, and Whittemore did refer to it, again saying it helped show that Johnson acted properly. And he went through another precedent case, Hernandez.

But now, Whittemore smartly cushions the blow for Wally Pope, saying that he believed that Wally filed the motion in good faith.

“Whatever skepticism I may have had when I first read the motion has dissipated. I can understand a former client’s concern.” Well, if he thinks that’s going to please Miscavige…

Anyway.

There’s been no evidence of disclosing confidential information presented. There is no smoking gun. I don’t see conflict.

Whittemore said he didn’t even see an appearance of impropriety.

However.

“A closer question arises about Mr. Rinder,” he said.

Uh oh!

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3:50 pm

Rinder, he pointed out, had been in such a long relationship with the church, more than 25 years.

But it seems to me, the judge said, his acrimonious departure indicates that there’s no impropriety. He’s adverse to them, and he’s been adverse to them for years. He’s being paid as a consultant, not as a material witness.

Certainly Rinder had access to confidential information, but there was no evidence that Robert Johnson, Ron Weil, or Ted Babbitt had engaged in a conflict. And THEY’RE the lawyers. It’s up to them to take steps that privilege is not violated. And he is satisfied that they took the proper steps to make sure that such a violation did not occur.

Mr. Pope, are there any legal arguments that I left out?

Wally: “Your honor, your oral pronouncements sound pretty thorough to me.”

Yes, the man knew when he was beaten.

And then, from the judge, came the words…

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3:54 pm

“MOTION WILL BE DENIED”

And it was over.

Whew.

That was about as different as possible from our experience in New Braunfels, Texas. But in each case, we watched judges who took these disqualification matters seriously, and in both cases knocked them down.

By the time Judge Whittemore had announced his ruling, Brian Culkin had already left the courtroom. He had made the trip for nothing.

No, it was not for nothing. We give him credit for showing up. And it is also to his credit that he was now so averse to the church, it didn’t even call him to the stand.

As for the Garcias, they looked relieved.

And now, we need a drink. We hope you enjoyed our reporting from the court here in Tampa, and we’ll see you tomorrow.

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  • Dirndl

    By the way, i think on the Monique Rathbun-Thread it came up: Who is this Wilfried Handl-guy? http://www.blog-gegen-scientology.wilfriedhandl.com/
    I than wanted to answer, couldn’t, so i do it now just to let you know. This guy is fighting scientology in austria. He was in from 1974 to 2002 with breaks in between. Got out because he was clear and than got cancer. Nobody there for him. He is writing a blog in german language and often linking/translating Tony Ortega, Rinder, Rathbun, the works. Also in an yearlong court-battle in Austria against the scilons. No independent sc. but total OUT and warning. Wrote books about it and posting them openly for everybody to read free without charge plus all of the OT-Level-Material. Seems legit. Fighting the fight Lederhosen-Style!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      But does he actually fight in Lederhosen? Cuz then I may need to stalk and marry him.

      Seriously. Right on and good for him.

    • aquaclara

      Thanks, D. This is terrific.

  • SandiCorrena

    Seems to me CO$ was only ever as tough as the secrets they could bully people into keeping for them; at this point exposing CO$ crimes is the new black! And ya’all look FAB U LOUS!!!

  • aurora50
    • 1subgenius

      Every time I see her name I think of the boy and girl on the hill.
      Boy: Do you like Kipling?
      Girl: I don’t know, I’ve never Kippled.

      • aurora50

        laughed out loud, and boy-howdy did I need it just now!
        thank you ;-)

    • BeverlyHillsBeer

      Ms. Yingling was a Trial Attorney with the Tax Division of the Department of Justice, Washington, D.C. from 1978-1983.

    • BananaSplits8

      A few things look “off” in that pic… like the painter who wants to minimize a royal personage’s less-than-becoming-features, yet those are exactly what we see first.

  • Jeb Burton

    Tony, now that your down here in Tampa, it would be a shame if you didnt come over here to Clearwater. Its only a 20 minute drive over the Howard Franklin bridge. There are so many interesting things to see here. Make sure you bring your camera. We have the biggest tent in the country. I know its not as interesting as the biggest ball of yarn, but hey, its all we have right now. Then you can take a walk down Cleveland street and see our interesting locals. Khakis, white shirts, and comfortable shoes are appropriate attire. Or more what I think is your style, you come down to Clearwater beach, go to Frenchys and have the best grouper sandwich on the beach. Also, the beer is ice cold. Cargo shorts, flip flops and Ron Jon T-shirts are appropriate attire here. Have fun in the sunshine state my friend.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      This is twice this week I have had to up arrow you Jeb ;)
      And Frenchys grouper sandwich is da bomb.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        First Alanzo, then the Up Jeb movement. The Reckoning…coming to a Tent Near You!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I know……….I be freakin!!!!

          • Jeb Burton

            Maybe this will make you feel better. While I hope the Garcias win, I still think they are rich idiots who had buyers remorse, and as long as they are practicing scientologists, I could care less if they get their money back.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Sorry Jeb…….You can’t pee on my parade enough tonight.
              Big WET KISS to you!!!!! And a cute kitty too.

            • Jeb Burton

              Damn it. Not the cute Kitty.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Jeb, people are going to start thinking we actually like each other.
              Now stop that right now! ;)

            • Mooser

              It’s the strangest thing I ever saw.

            • 1subgenius

              Boo.

              Them getting their money back is a huge legal tipping point.

              But yeah, I get that you’re that kind of person.

              “Here’s to all you, all you lucky dogs, it’s heads or tails
              Here’s to all you filthy rich, I wish you well
              Here’s to all the pretty women made for cash
              And here’s to dashing daddy’s son, he’s such a flash”
              –Steve Forbert – Steve Forbert’s Midsummer Night’s Toast

    • 1subgenius

      I don’ see how that is not going to happen, and said so about 12 hours ago.
      Tony.
      He forgives, but he doesn’t forget.
      Expect him.
      Bwwaaaahahaaaa.

    • L. C. Spencer

      YES go get a world-class grouper sandwich and walk on the beach, Tony! You ought to have a little vacay in the midst of all the hard work :-)

    • Sandy

      Hey. That’s a ball of twine, not yarn! Get your sarcasm straight! My folks knew Mr Johnson & I saw that ball of twine every time we went to Dassel. Darwin finally enclosed it in a building – cuz wot else does Darwin have going for it? But, it’s still pretty cool. It was on “I’ve got a Secret” back in the “50’s

      • Jeb Burton

        Ill work on researching my sarcasm. I honestly thought it was the biggest ball of yarn.Tell Mr. Johnson im sorry.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I have been to the the largest ball of twine. It is in Kansas.

  • GlibWog

    OMG It is 7:20 PM and I just got on! TEARS OF JOY… FUCKIN TEARS OF JOY…

    For everyone.. EVERYONE… But THE LEADER ..

    THE LEADER OF THE ENTIRE EVIL CULT KNOWN AS SCIENTOLOGY..

    • Kim O’Brien

      just got back from work …feeling the same way ! SO COOL !!!!!

      • 1subgenius

        “Honey, I’m home!”

      • GlibWog

        Phew slowly catching up KIM…

        Exciting Day.. Hey lurkers.. come join us.. The more the merrier..xox Glibby

    • Aslansown

      I was surreptitiously checking the blog while I was speaking at a middle school all day…it was hard to contain my excitement. Tony is the absolute best at reporting these things!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This is the kind of flash scenes I want to see in the Bunker Movie..or the Series.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I feel so sorry for people watching reality TV and missing all THIS!!!!

          • dagobarbz

            It’s like “reality internet” in real time!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And so much better than “Beverly Hills Housewives” or whateves…

        • stateofcircle

          I really want to get a Bunker Podcast going!!

      • GlibWog

        The absolute Best.. I felt like I was right there with him!

        • Aslansown

          I know. It was really exciting. None of my friends know anything about scientology so I have to come here and share the joy!

          • GlibWog

            Good Lord yes..

            I keep telling them that they have to Get A Life and Come here.. Jeeze

            • Aslansown

              I know. They’re actually spending time doing things like working, exercising, being with their families — they don’t realize what they’re missing.

            • GlibWog

              I know.. Those poor people…ha

    • 1subgenius

      Yeah, I got here late too, and it was so cool to see that everyone took care of everything while we were gone..
      Not like those damn kids!!!!

      • GlibWog

        ” HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! “

        • 1subgenius

          You raised ‘em well. Except for that one. Which was it, the second?

          I love to tell the made up (maybe) story of when us kids were misbehaving and my Dad turned to my Mom and said, “Well, you can tell that they’re YOURS.”
          And my Mom saying, “Well, that’s more than I can say for you.”

          • GlibWog

            The Second.. sigh ( 50% ha)

            OMG….bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahhahaha

            I love it sub..hhahaha.. That made my night

            • 1subgenius

              That was meant only for you.

            • GlibWog

              I can keep a secret..

              It’s all my big mouth friends that can’t keep their mouths shut! xo

            • 1subgenius

              More properly I should have said that it was meant for you.
              Not that it was to be a secret, although, pssst. no one’s reading this.
              All the kiddies are in bed.

            • GlibWog

              Oh I know what cha meant sub..

              I am pickin up what you are layin down.. yawwwwwwwwwwwn i’m getting sleepy too..

    • Sydjazz

      The leader lol.

      • GlibWog

        HHaaa I only put him as the Leader Cause he says he is only the EccoSTENCH ICAL ..

        He has a stench alright..

        • Sydjazz

          Oh is that like a entreMANURE?

          • GlibWog

            Oh Absolutely.. hahaha

            • Sydjazz

              :) hi glibwog *waves*

            • GlibWog

              smoooooooooooooooches… xo ; 0

    • Ruby

      the e-sleazzze-eactical leader….

      • GlibWog

        OOOOOOOOOOOOOOh yes.. He could NOT be any Sleazier Ruby.. ugh..

        Sleazy and oily ( sittin in the Oil table..ha) ugh puke..

  • GlibWog

    I don’t know if i-betty or tia posted this yet.. so I will.. I have so much to read..just startin..

    • Poison Ivy

      LOVE the layout and background, Glib. Just a slight “note” – “Not Responsible for Freeloader Debt” sounds like you’re talking about the “helping party” of the poster is claiming it won’t be responsible.
      In the past you’ve done the YOU ARE NEVER LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR FREELOADER DEBT, right? Maybe you could write that in smaller font?
      Otherwise, ROCK IT!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        How about “FREELOADER DEBT IS ILLEGAL and INSULTING”

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          “You worked for slave labor wages, and they want you to pay them?”

          • Zana

            Yes. This is what I always thought… what about all the 10 cents an hour days?

      • GlibWog

        I will correct it immediately PI… thank you ..You are right..Just checked and the other ones said..

        You are Not responsible blah… Will Edit it under this.. xoxoxo Glibby..

    • GlibWog

      *** Please just leave.. **** YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FREELOADER DEBT..NEVER.. NO ROUTING OUT.. JUST BLOW..

  • Jordi Miro

    Congratulations to the Garcias :)

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      It was a great day again Jordi.
      They seem to be coming at orders of magnitude lately.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am VERY happy the are able to keep the attorneys they choose. I can’t wait to see this case argued. I hope they win and they receive their legal costs for motions such as this.

  • AntoineDoinel

    Way to go, Tony! Brill, as always. (And a nod to Joe Childs as well for the one-two punch):

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/scientology-seeks-to-remove-opposing-lawyers-in-case-alleging-its/2145198

    • Aslansown

      “The church’s chief legal officer in Clearwater, Peter Mansell, who sat through the hearing, declined to comment.”

      ha ha ha ha

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I cropped the headline, but it’s such a thing of beauty:

      “Judges in two cases reject Scientology”

  • Tony DePhillips

    Better than Breaking Bad. :+)

    • Aslansown

      Right! I’m been having withdrawal since the finale!

  • Sydjazz

    Well that sounds like a pretty good win to me. I think the judge has a good sense of what scientology is like now.

  • Need to know

    Not sure is this has been posted yet or not. For those that are interested. Leah R.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2442618/Leah-Remini-testify-David-Miscavige-harassment-lawsuit.html

    • aurora50

      quote: “…Scientology watchdog website The
      Underground Bunker.”

  • Need to know
  • Eclipse-girl

    You people have posted more than 1000 posts since I had to go.

    I will never get through them.

    CONGRATS to the Garcias and Ted Babbit

    We at the bunker are throwing popcorn in the air, and making a mess due to the celebratory nature of the evening

  • Sydjazz

    And the scion lawyers rush back to get a whipping from the leader.

    • Missionary Kid

      They better get a wheelbarrow full of cash.

  • Victoria Pandora

    Not only is Tony named as a Scientology WatchDog, which is surely one of the bravest post I have ever seen.
    But he has this amazing comment section.
    Just in the last couple of weeks I have seen more and more sites shut down their comment sections.
    On the internetnI think that is a slow but sure path to insignificance.
    Might his successful formula be the truth?
    I think so!

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    David Love just posted this on facebook. Ripe for shooping.

    • dagobarbz

      ‘o’ is for the many bucks I owe youuuu….

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        HAHAHAHA…Rich ain’t it. Go David!!!

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Does WWP have it to shoop yet? Do you know?
          It’s a great shot AND a good catch.
          Several UpNuts 4 U 4 that!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Hell no. I just happened to check FB at the right moment.
            Of course, In fifteen minutes they (WWP) will have a …well u know…………….

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Yeah, they already have a great DM shoop thread just waiting 4 it…. as U no.

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Also bet the Bunker shoopers will also luv U 2!
          But then, who doesn’t?!!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            That is a keeper ain’t it?

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Sure is.
              So R U!

    • Intelligenceplus

      Oh’, my … just couldn’t resist screen capturing some of Miscavige’s shifty-eye expressions in a video I just received, with some dox “You just hold onto that pose, Davey-Boy, you may need it if locked up in prison for perjury or … “

      • 1subgenius

        For the record joking about prison rape is not a thing.

    • Moorwalker

      Now, David, you know Bubba is bigger than Tom. Open wider.

    • 1subgenius

      (HIs defense strategy)
      “Oh, was that wrong? Should I not have done that?”

    • stateofcircle

      Hey Dave… You got a pritty mouth….

      • Ruby

        ouch! :)

    • 1subgenius

      Quick, but….don’t yell at me

  • 1subgenius

    I’ve had so many requests (in my mind) for a more in depth analysis than my previous 2 bloody mary induced post (“cool”), that, despite popular demand, I shall offer a 5 bloody mary analysis (brb)….OK, I’m ready now.
    The ruling, being almost a no-brainer, was less important than the “tone” that Tony pointed out that the judge set, implicitly, and overtly.
    He’s smart, polite, respectful, gives leeway, but doesn’t give much leash.
    Bodes well for this, or any other case before him.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I had you at “cool”.

      But then you dissed my Buzzards (evil eye)

      • 1subgenius

        No way did I dis yours or any one else’s buzzards. Certainly never meant to.
        shit now i’m depressed

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Nooooooooooooooooo! No depression when drinking bloody marys. Not allowed!!!!

          • 1subgenius

            Man I feel horrible. I never meant to dis your buzzards. Will you ever forgive me?
            As a matter of fact, now that I recall, I praised and upvoted your buzzards.
            You had been in a meeting and came out with a buzzard effigy committment (going from memory here….it was 12 hours, 400 miles, and 5 bloody’s ago). How could I not think that was cool?
            Dox, or you owe ME an apology.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I thought you were making fun of me. I may be wrong. Sometimes I get butthurt for nothing.
              (Ok, so I wasnt like REALLY butthurt because i kinda let water roll off the ducks back…)
              So…I will just owe you the apology..or give it to ya.
              cuz there is NO WAY I am scrolling through all these comments without a Catapiller front end loader!!! (get over the bad spelling…it is late and I haven’t cleaned my glasses)
              And your memory is fantastic for five bloody marys
              HAHAHAHA

            • 1subgenius

              My memory is PERFECT!!!
              But sometimes it’s extremely short.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Muah…Have # 6

  • Hunting Lion

    Justice! Ye ha!

    • Aslansown

      I like your lion picture better than mine!!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I adore BOTH of your Lion Pics. They are both beautiful in different ways.

        • Aslansown

          Thanks! I think the picture I used was too big so I couldn’t get the whole head in there. As a perfectionist with some OCD I am now going to obsess about it.

          • Moorwalker

            Your lion photo is so noble and Aslanesque — I really love it the way it is. Perfect for your name.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              ditto!

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              tritto!

            • Moorwalker

              quadritto!

            • Aslansown

              “Aslan is a lion- the Lion, the great Lion.” “Ooh” said Susan. “I’d thought he was a man. Is he-quite safe? I shall feel rather nervous about meeting a lion”…”Safe?” said Mr Beaver …”Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King, I tell you.”

              ― C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Quick-hypothetical-who-wins: Aslan vs. all of Gandalf’s eagles.

            • Aslansown

              Aslan FTW!!!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              It would be harder for an individual eagle to pick up Aslan than it would be for Aslan to knock one down. And they can’t really swoop in in teams of 2 or more without them flying into each other. Aslan would win eventually, but the real loser is me for putting any thought at all into this battle.

            • Aslansown

              ha ha ha ha!! You have really given that a lot of thought!

            • Robert Eckert

              The correct answer, of course, is: neither, because they would be on the same side.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Robert are you a George RR Martin fan?

            • Robert Eckert

              I have only seen one episode of Game of Thrones. My buddy said I had to watch this show to which he was addicted. It was the Red Wedding episode. My buddy was all upset about it, but since I did not know the characters it took some explaining to make me understand why it was a big deal that they were dead.

            • Eclipse-girl

              pentatitto

            • Aslansown

              :-)

            • Aslansown

              Thank you. I think I actually hearsayed “Aslan” and took it from there. I absolutely love how C.S. Lewis wrote him.

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        Aslansown, don’t even think it. Your avatar is perfectly lovely. When I saw both avatars (U and Hunting Lion) side by side like that, I remembered I had this.

        P.S. Don’t know size of image, so I might have to delete post. We’ll see…..

        • Aslansown

          Oh — I absolutely LOVE this!

        • MadMaxi

          Love this picture, reminds me of a watercolor painting I did eons ago that won best of show. Was my youthful expression of my still in the closet phase of life.

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            Oh, how lovely! On several levels.
            And I hope your creative works are NOT in the closet and you are still working with some other medium if no longer watercoloring.
            Have you digitized the painting and is it online for us to look at? We have a lot of cat lovers in the Bunker and, being one myself, especially lions, I’d love to see it.
            If there’s no link, that’s OK. I’m just glad you enjoyed those two darlings in the photo above, including see the two lion avatars above that! What fun!
            :-)

            • SciWatcher

              Yeah, lions are awesome–and lots of different kind of symbolism attached to them throughout literature! Incidentally I’ve spent the better part of the last week working on scenes between a girl and a lion for my latest book.

      • i-Betty

        No, no, no! Don’t change a thing about your lion. The close-up of his face against the black background is beautiful :) And he is YOU :)

        (I don’t like change) :P

        • Aslansown

          Thank you. It would be weird to suddenly change my avatar!

          And I hate change too!

          • Zana

            Beautiful avatar!

      • Hunting Lion

        Hi Aslan! Do you like this one?

        • Aslansown

          Yes! One of my very favorites — from the movie poster, right? I used to work in a C.S. Lewis archive that consulted on the movie so we had a number of things that the producers gave for our collection.

          • SciWatcher

            Damn, dream job!

            • Aslansown

              It was a very neat place.

          • And I’m Cute, Too

            I’m so envious…

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      NO HUNTING LION NO!

      There was no justice for the Church of Scientology! All that happened was the Judge thinking with his reactive mind. Everyone here on this blog, all of you, are no more than “Walking Circuits” out to attack the Church!

      http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/3016289-inline-fbpanims_zpsc8f4f5bb.gif

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Are you trying to give us a seizure with that OT VIII?
        Hmmm?
        How is COB right now?
        Having a nice cocktail and a massage?…………………mmmmmm (scrunchy face)…I am thinking NO.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Autoresponder: COB is away from his office. Please leave a message at the tone.

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        BTN asked you a question 19 mins. ago…..
        AND I need to know your answer to her ?’s
        [Impatiently taps foot on floor – errr… strike that – brake pedal on the metal with accelerator pumped impatiently]

      • Hunting Lion

        A B C… Grrrrr! Judge not reactive – he big analytical legal cat! Church big silly mousetrap coming undone – no more cheese!

  • Anonymookme

    WOW! I will never get through the comments today! Thanks to Tony, congrats to the Garcia’s and a shout out to TheHoleDoesNotExist. I’m drinking a pretty good Cabernet out of my brand spanking new Dali Still Life Sandia wine glass from the Dali Museum! Life is good!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Cream rises to the top huney…time to just float at the upper regions at this point.

      • Mooser

        I gotta wonder if Dali wine-glasses are like Dali watches. Who knows where the cream goes?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          LOL, good point.You have to ask Anonymookme or theholedoesnotexist (I was with her at the Dali Museum when she bought wine glasses too.

          • Anonymookme

            They are gorgeous wine glasses.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I love the Museum. Did you see the huge white horse painting? I was enthralled.

            • Anonymookme

              I have not been to the Museum. I bought the wine glasses online.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh OK.

            • Anonymookme

              I’m in Nebraska. No Sciloons or Dali Museum in this neck of the woods

          • whingeybingey

            Has she used them yet?

      • Missionary Kid

        Hey, you were awesome over at Media Bistro. S_St Claire just flat out lost all the way around. You, as well as the rest of the Bunkaroos snowed her under. She was trying to deflect and seem to be “reasonable” by not defending Krusty, but she was outmatched. I doubt they’ll allow anyone else to join her. There’s too much entheta.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Huh, I barely spoke to him? Please tell me he didn’t get pinched TOO bad. I got a total crush on him.
          Got the link. He used to follow me..(we keep stalking each other)…but need a link to say hi.
          I so want him and his family to blow!

          Fun fact about St. Claire….he is Central Florida!
          Yes S…I know this (but you already know I know that)!!!

          Edit: and he also lurks here MK.

          • Missionary Kid

            Your posts, along with the many others had to wear him down. I am probably imagining it, but St Claire seemed to be baffled at having so many of us piling on. Yours was the first I saw, and it encouraged me to jump in. I hope they do blow.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I really like St. Claire…way more rational than most troll sciloons who do the thought stopping.
              St. Claire forms a genuine thought on his own.
              This gives me hope that he is on the way to freedom.
              Yeah, I know I am being idealistic here, but that is OK.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I tired to engage him/her last night. It didn’t work, Johnny Tank and I got into a bit of a game. let me look for the link

            • i-Betty

              Could it be this one, E-G?

              http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/leah-remini-texas-scientology-lawsuite-deposition_b97145

              [edit] I think it is – this is the first time I’ve been able to read MediaBistro comments, for some reason, and I can see St. Claire’s comments from yesterday.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh Oh Oh, St. Claire was ‘Chuffed” at me cuz I was getting bored with him?
              Oh, I got work to do later. The 2D tension is great here. Must go get my Sciloon and bring him home!!!!
              Like…Later.
              Cuz tonight…I must have a nap!

            • Eclipse-girl

              You actually sleep???

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              No, I just threaten too!

            • Robert Eckert

              No, “chuffed” is Brit slang (a clue to where he is coming from) meaning “flattered”. He is chuffed that you bother to stalk him.

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY. I am so slow finding old links

            • Johnny Tank

              He he. I thought it was a woman. Never mind, it was great fun trolling with a troll :-)

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Fleet Admiral David Miscavige has declared a global red alert for all Scientology sectors following the Church’s legal loss in Florida.

    All Scientologists are hereby ordered to begin purchasing all copies of newspapers that carry this story. We must prevent the public from learning of this loss!

    http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/RedAlert_zps932e6c2a.jpg

    • Missionary Kid

      He’ll be just as successful as he was in censoring the internet.

    • NevahIn

      You know, if COB really did that- it would greatly encourage newspapers to print even more stories like it.

      They need the sales.

      • L. C. Spencer

        I like the way you think. We could save the dying newspaper industry!

      • aquaclara

        The church has been known to do this very thing. First in old Clearwater Sun days and then in the St Pete Times days with the Truth Rundown series…

  • joan nieman

    Thank you Tony! A most informative play by play.

  • Zer0
    • Gerard Plourde

      A good story though not as in-depth as Tony’s. As of 8:30 EDT there were no sockpuppet comments, just four comments critical of the cult.

      • Zer0

        Those old sockpuppets like Louanne “the eyeball” must be so depressed these days. Everybody knows what their dirty cult is up to (thanks to Tony), so those derailing post attempts don’t accomplish much anymore- rather, when a cult shill posts, it’s like poking a hornets nest.

  • Layla

    I am a bunkerite, but I have never been in… Marc, I just finished reading your book. I stayed up really late to finish it. I am an English teacher, and I could barely get up the next morning to teach; however, I am inspired every day to make a difference in my students’ lives as they make a difference and contribute to mine. Your story with Claire and your children give me hope. I am against injustice of all kinds. I have posted here only a few times, but I am on this site every day at least twice a day. The people that post here are the most articulate, funny, caring, and hopeful people I have ever encountered in real life. Thank you to all of you. I wish for for you connections to your families.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Layla………..join us more. Nice post.
      There is NO community like this one.
      it is amazing.

    • Moorwalker

      This really is a great community. It’s wonderful to know that, whichever you need most, humor, comfort, or hope, you’ll get it here.

      Plus we’re fringe, and that’s so edgy and cool ;-)

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Yes….the nice edgy fringe is what keeps me here………….ahhhh

      • Zana

        Fringe and CUTTING EDGE. Changing the world. Out here on the very tip of this wave that’s crashing into that old moldy artiface of a sand castle… the Co$. We keep crashing into it and it will definitely come down. Truth! Truth! Truth! Yeaaaa!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Welcome. $cientology is a weird obsession. This is a very nice, safe place.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        It is a very weird obsession.. But it is super fascinating….

        • Eclipse-girl

          At lunch today, my daughter was deriding the idea there was a separate language like “blow,” “never ins,” and “exes”

          She understands this has been an obsession of mine since “forever.”

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Ya know…Point her to hearsay…. “loaded language of cults”.

            • L. C. Spencer

              OK, this is so n00b of me… but what the hell is hearsay? I, erm, HEAR people SAY this term a lot here at the Bunker, but nowhere else.

            • Eclipse-girl

              In the hearings in TX, for Monique Rathbun, at one point a $cientologist lawyer claimed that “Google was hearsay”

              It had to do with Ray Jeffrey stating that the material / Information that Marty Rathbun knew was public , not secret and available on the internet. Tony O and the Underground Bunker was also mentioned.

            • L. C. Spencer

              Ahahahahahahahaha I forgot about this, yeeeaahh! Of course we can’t just leave that one lying there.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              “Google” is “hearsay” per Mosey’s lawsuit.
              Sorry, we pick up Memes quick and that was a rocker!

              anyway…google the signs of a cult. One thing you will run on is loaded language.
              Way to Isolate and control.

            • L. C. Spencer

              Oh lord yes, I had forgotten about this one. No way could we NOT meme that! In this and so many other ways, Scientology language-fail is the BEST language fail.

          • Johnny Tank

            I find it hard reading the e-mails and things written in Sci-speak. So many abbreviations and acronyms. If you haven’t been ‘in’ you can really get lost trying to understand what the hell they are trying to say.
            Of course, most of the time it’s just gibberish anyway ;-)

            • Eclipse-girl

              I totally agree. It has taken me a lot of time to learn some of the jargon. In Both Marc Headleys’s book and Jenna Miscavige Hill’s book there are glossaries which I found extremely helpful

            • Peter

              If you went to visit a scientific event, you’d probably also get lost in the jargon. Hang around with sailing folks and you’ll soon be bewildered. Mechanics talking business? Armed forces personnel? No matter where you go, specialized groups end up with their own versions on language. Just think of how many new words get invented in the world of hip hop and soon become assimilated into the commong language. Scio is not that different in that respect.

            • Eclipse-girl

              L Ron made up words such as “erterbulate” he also changed the definition of words , like “ethics” .

              $ci-lons like to use their acronym filled jargon as a way to insulate themselves.

              I realize that any Group may have their own language, but it is not usually done to keep outsiders out.

            • Peter

              I never thought he did that to keep them OUT! LOL And I really don’t think he plotted and thought specifically about these words. Watching some of his briefing course lectures, I always sensed he was just doing one of those rambling thoughts kind of things. He certainly didn’t have any decent education on which to base those.

    • NOLAGirl

      Welcome Layla. I’m a recently new poster and I can attest to the fact that everyone here is welcoming, hilarious, kind and intelligent. Glad you decided to join in.

    • i-Betty

      Layla, that’s such a pretty name :) Welcome to the Bunker! It’s really nice to meet you. x

    • Zer0

      Thanks for your post Layla! Happy to have you as a Bunkerite!

    • Ruby

      Hi Layla. So glad you are here! Teachers are among the top people I most admire! Thank you for all you do. ( that is speaking from my heart …of my own experience and that of my current role as a parent)

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Ah yes, Bunker visits and teeth brushing. Twice a day keeps the tooth thetans away.

    • aquaclara

      It’s great to have you here L. I wish more teachers were aware of the cult’s attempts to infiltrate school systems and attempts to indoctrinate kids. Your students are lucky to have you!

  • Jeb Burton

    It sounds like Scientologys strategy of having the lawyers dismissed is an abject failure. Time to come up with a new playbook. I hope the Garcias prevail and it opens the door for all the poor saps get their money back. But for the life of me, how can somebody be so stupid to put up $400,000 for a cross? More money than sense I guess.

    • Moorwalker

      Jeb, I’m glad you’ve stuck it out here — things got off to a rocky start, but I so understand why you’re furious about what’s happened to your town. I’m happy that you hung in. You bring a good perspective to the Bunker.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I would ask why does anyone give money to a religion, but I am a bit biased on that account.

      I have NO PROBLEM giving money to an established charity, even if that is a religious charity.

      I remember being taught about how wealthy people bought absolution through the catholic church. I can only think that similar pressure was put upon those in $cientology. But I have no evidence

    • WhereIsSHE

      All I wanna know from you is (and sorry if this has been asked already):
      How ya like Leah Remini NOW, Jeb?!

      I recall you being disappointed by what you perceived to be her complicit silence immediately after she left the “church”.
      Just wondering if you are finding yourself pleasantly surprised by, and as pleased with, her commendable outspoken stance, which keeps ramping up, ever since she broke her silence?

  • chukicita

    Hm. Never in Texas? (Old Church of Scientology Building in Dallas Catches Fire)

    http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/23605222/old-church-of-scientology-building-in-dallas-catches-fire

    • Sydjazz

      Spooky.

  • Owned By Dogs

    Raising a glass of Chardonnay to Tony for his most excellent blogging. Thank goodness for smart phones. I am able to glance at the Bunker at work and kind of keep up. But with 2300+ posts that is impossible.

    • Aslansown

      I know. I tried to do it too…while trying not to let anyone know I was doing it.

      • i-Betty

        How times have changed. We used to play Solitaire on our work computers when the boss wasn’t watching. These days the cool kids from the Fringe side-eye the Bunker :D

        • Aslansown

          Yeah. We cool, we cool.

        • Ruby

          That’s funny! :). Love you, I-Betty

        • aegerprimo

          <———- busted!

        • Eclipse-girl

          I was a pro at several types of solitaire

  • aysa gold

    Another legal defeat! I feel momentum growing…Thanks for your updates Tony. I felt like I was there and I almost felt sorry for Pope. Do they not realize the tides are turning? NO one is afraid of them anymore. They are being dragged into court. The public is against them and former members are no longer afraid to tell the truth. The Super Power building has turned into a symbol of Super Defeat. Goodbye Scientology and don’t forget to shut the door on your way out!

  • Sandy

    I Shall Be Released” Nina Simone. Someone way below posted this beautiful song done by The Band, but, for my money, Ms Simone owns this song. I will try to find her version …

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Nina Owns everything she EVER sang!!! Just sayin…

      • Sandy

        you know it

      • Sandy

        Back in the day, I had a ’64 convertible, and I used to drive with Nina singing loud & proud, fast and fun.

      • aurora50

        and they would introduce her: MISS Nina Simone…loved it!

    • Sandy
      • i-Betty

        Ahh, the glorious Miss Simone :)

      • i-Betty

        I’m going to post the PSA with a link to this song attached, just this one time, because it’s beautiful and I think it works on a certain level :)

    • aurora50

      Dylan’s greatest…?

      of course, when I linked I then had to watch the Mama Cass, Mary Travers, Joni Mitchell version…
      were we ever that young?

      and did not remember that Mary had died; hit me hard…

      not sure how we could ever tell young women today what those years were like…
      peace out, Sisters!

  • i-Betty

    A personal message from The Bunker community to any Scientologists who may be reading here.

    Firstly, a beautiful song for you by the lovely Nina Simone, called I Shall Be Released – http://youtu.be/XyCn8IC5RpE – we wanted to share it with you this evening because we want you to know that we are thinking of you and wishing you well :)

    Helpline:

    1-866-XSEAORG – The call is completely free and can be made from any public telephone

    If you’re a Scientologist reading this and you are having doubts about your religion, whether it be the doctrine, the incessant, relentless regging, or the leadership, but are afraid to leave because it’s all you’ve known, or you’re afraid of what to expect on the ‘outside’, please give the number on Glibby’s sign (below) a call; it’s totally free. You can speak anonymously and in strict confidence to somebody who can help you, and will receive non-judgmental moral support, as well as real advice for setting up your new life and getting back on your feet.

    I promise you, the outside world isn’t the enemy. As in all walks of life, some people are idiots, but most people are kind, hard working, honest, loving individuals, just living their lives. Many, many people have already left Scientology and are living happy, fulfilling, peaceful lives filled with family and friends – old and new – who love them. They, too, felt your fears as they began their break away from the church. Some took a leap of faith and discovered that the landing was soft, welcoming and forgiving. Some needed to take baby steps. But they all moved in one direction: towards the door.

    For them, every day is now an adventure and they are the architects of their own lives.

    You may be feeling:

    Sadness and loss over saying “goodbye” to those ideals in the group you thought you could admire, the fellow members you thought were your true friends, or the time and money spent following something which turned out to be false…

    Fear, that this may have been your last hope for happiness, success, enlightenment, or your eternity; that you are no longer protected by the powers of your leader and are vulnerable to evil; that you will make bad decisions for yourself without the group’s guidance, or that you will be punished for leaving…

    Loneliness, at the thought of leaving intensive relationships, and now needing to reconnect with family and friends who live in a manner that your religion criticized…

    Confusion, about what to believe, and how to make good decisions for yourself and your future…

    Guilt, possibly associated with having broken ties to loved ones, or for having recruited others into Scientology…

    Shame, when realizing you were involved in an organisation that maybe made you behave in a way that you’re not proud of…

    If Auditing and Training are still important to you they are both available outside the church, but without any of the hoops attached which you are currently expected to jump through…it is cheaper, and there will be no sec checking.

    It might help you to hear stories from others who were in your exact same situation. There is a great website called The Big List That Left Scientology. Here is the link: https://sites.google.com/site/biglistthatleftscientology/ Click on the alphabetical letters across the top to find people you may have known, and to read some inspirational stories.

    Last, but by no means least, the Freeloader Debt is NOT legally enforceable – that means they can’t make you pay it.

    Call those numbers. It might just be the first step to the rest of your life.

    And call your family. Please. They never stopped loving you and hoping that one day you would come back to them. Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays are near. Give them a call, send them your love. No guilt, no shame.

    We wish you so much luck and love.

    • Sidney18511

      I-Betty…….I’m hugging you through the interwebs, you caring sweet lady you!

    • 1subgenius

      Just had to play the Nina card?
      You know what this means.
      We’ll never get out of here tonight.

      • q-bird

        Bloody Mary’s suit you ~ have giggled & tee heed a goodly # of times today.
        I blame you.

        • 1subgenius

          This is a very special day. Oops I was just warned by Disqus that “You have already made this comment”)
          So I will quote Jack White and preface it by saying, “I’ve said it once before, but it bears repeating.”

    • Aslansown

      This is so powerful. Thank you.

  • aurora50

    Just a heads up for those working on the Craig’s List project: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/03/thirteen-alleged-members-of-anonymous-indicted-on-hacking-charges/

    Don’t let the Scis muddy the waters for you…
    Edit to add full title of post: Thirteen alleged members of Anonymous indicted on hacking charges

    • i-Betty

      Thanks for the link, Aurora :)

      • aurora50

        you are welcome.

    • SopranoAscends

      Ooopsie…

    • Milo MinderBinder

      The whole thing is irrelevant to us. People on this blog are not hackers, most of us know just enough to barely operate Disqus. There is a complete confusion between Anonymous the hackers that fight for Wikileaks and hack Assad’s computers, and Scientology critics from Project Chanology. Yes, first mass protests against Scientology were triggered by a bunch of hackers, but there were like 25 of them. On the other hand, in 2008 there were about 500 protesters in front of each major Scientology Org all over the world; those people had nothing to do with the Ddos attacks. Not everyone who wears a Guy Fawkes mask is a hacker and not everyone who criticizes Scientology is a member of the “loosely organized hacker collective known as Anonymous.” It’s just a myth that OSA loves to promote.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I fully admit I am not a part of Anonymous. That does not mean that I do not support Anonymous.

        When Anonymous , with the help of anti – $cientologist, I do not care who gets the credit.

        All I want is the dissolution of the cO$, and its assorted corporate fronts, and DM in prison.

        I guess I think of people united for a cause

        • ThetaBara

          The Anons who protest scientology do not take part in illegal activity. As Milo mentioned, many of us can scarcely use disquis. LOL! I think it’s important to remember that. It does us no favors to suggest otherwise.

      • jmh

        Thank you for putting that succinctly. Said it better than I could have!

  • Sydjazz

    Welcome to the church of wankatology. Please leave all your credit cards, stocks, bonds and deeds to your house with our receptionist.

  • MarionDee

    “Well, you learn something every day.” No words for how much I love this judge for saying that.

    • Artoo45

      I imagine it delivered with an acid tone . . . delicious.

    • 1subgenius

      That was delicious.
      I read a court decision one time that read,
      “And to the argument that it’s been done that way for over 50 years we say, “Well, you’ve been doing it wrong.”
      Trufax.

      • MarionDee

        A no-nonsense judge on the side of Right is a fearsome and sometimes funny thing!

  • DamOTclese2

    @ScientologyVM You need to send a team to Florida, it was a DISASTER http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/03/live-from-tampa-the-garcia-v-scientology-federal-fraud-lawsuit-mini-trial/ for these violently insane Scientology criminals

    Kicking class assholes on Twitter.

    • DamOTclese2

      Snicker snicker snort snort

  • Suiram

    Not to distract from this amazing news regarding the Garcia case… but I just discovered that the anti-Scientology Craigslist movement is starting to win by leaps and bounds.

    I haven’t had a chance to check multiple cities yet, but EVERY SINGLE AD in Houston is gone. I’ve heard similar stories about other cities. Apparently, Craigslist is not making an official statement… but they are taking action.

    • ParticleMom

      They are still here in Boston.

      • Suiram

        I’ve found zero new ads in Austin, but some in San Antonio. Apparently, the ones that actually say Scientology or Dianetics are staying up. I can’t find any of the deceptive ones yet.

        • Eclipse-girl

          If you link them people will flag them

        • ParticleMom

          Ah, that makes sense. The ones here say Scientology.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Still here in Ocala and I am hitting them daily from three IPs

        • Ruby

          You are in Ocala?

        • Eclipse-girl

          Did you hear of the vandalism against the Ocala org?

    • Zer0

      That’s amazing news. Craigslist would be performing a great humanitarian service by shutting out the deceptive cult schemes.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      How fantastic! Thanks for keeping us posted AND thank you so much for all your work in making this happen. Congratulations!

    • Sunny Sands

      The ads in Tampa Bay have been reduced by 95%. This was due to the publicity of CL ignoring the flags. Prior to this, the bunker flagging had sent the scientologists into overdrive, and the ads had actually INCREASED by 50%. Buh-bye CL clam ads, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    • 1subgenius

      This is a very special day.

      • Guest

        It would be super duper special if we can get the ads removed from the Detroit Craigslist. I’ve been flagging the Sci ads (listed under Farmington Hills/ Community) every day and haven’t seen any disappear. They go all the way back to Sept. 9th.

        Any volunteers to help? Thanks!

        • Robert Eckert

          Post links to your search results and we’ll all hit them. It is useless to flag as just one person.

          • Guest

            I tried to link, but my tab in between Alt and Ctrl isn’t working for some reason and I don’t know how to link it any other way.

        • 1subgenius

          Remind me tomorrow. Seriously.

    • Freethinker

      I just check the CL groups, events, and classes sections in the SF Bay Area and found only two ClamSpams! There used to be more than a hundred.
      In doing the same scan for L.A., I found a dozen ClamSpam posts (flagged ‘em). I haven’t really been following CL L.A. much, but I’m sure this must be a new low for an area that has the highest concentration [snigger] of Scilons in the world. Thanks and a “Well done!” to all the wogs and SPs
      here that made this victory possible.

  • Snippy_X

    2400 comments

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Snicker….Fringe….uh huh.

    • 1subgenius

      So what you’re saying is there were 73 worthwhile comments posted today?
      (Was that snarky? Should I not have said that?)

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I feel ya. I love the traffic and all the new posters, but it does suck to not be able to read them all now. I feel like a cheater if I go by “best”.

    • Zer0

      If the court would have allowed Tony to bring in his laptop and do his real live-blog magic, the count would have been much higher. Then again, I would have gotten a lot less work done at the office.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Federal courts remain old-school by design. Short-hand stenographers, colored-pencil sketch artists, a very low tolerance for any electronic devices.

        • WhereIsSHE

          WTF are you talking about?!
          Short hand stenographers?!
          NOT!
          I’ve been practicing law in federal court since the early 90s, Jimmy.
          You know not of what you blog.
          The federal courts were the first to go to e-filings and e-discovery.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            Then I’m not sure what my aunt has been doing for the last 25 years. But she claims to have been a stenographer all that time! Surely, she’s gone to audio recordings and had to find other work typing out short hand notes and tapes for private practices, but I don’t think she is a liar.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Jimmy-
              The court stenographers still exist, but they haven’t worked in SHORTHAND since before I passed the bar.
              Have you not seen the equipment she uses??

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Uh, yeah, wouldn’t you describe what they type into a stenographers machine as “shorthand”? I was never saying that she wrote shorthand on pen and pad. But even the fastest stenos still write in a shortened form.

            • WhereIsSHE

              No, I wouldn’t.
              Shorthand is a term of art for the taking of handwritten notes.
              The machines used by stenographers in federal court all these years is the same equipment used by stenographers in state court all these years.

              Your original point was about your claim that the federal court system remained “old by design”, and my response is that you are wrong about that.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Okay then. Can we expect digital photography in Federal courtrooms soon?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I think you’re reading too far into what I said.. I didn’t mean they were lacking or “behind the times” but that they are content to keep with stenographers, audio tapes, sketch artists and have a strong reluctance to accept the digital recording devices that state criminal courts have allowed. I know a few attorneys who work in Federal courthouses, and I can’t imagine any of them calling that a stupid opinion. And even if they disagreed, I doubt they would say “WTF are you talking about? You don’t know what you blog.” Because the difference between stenographer and short-hand stenographer is… Redundancy. Stenography actually means “the art of writing in shorhand”

              I’m not a lawyer. Your legal opinion and analysis is far more valuable to this blog than I will ever be. But I was one of the first to praise you for it. I was nothing but kind to you. Then one night I made a silly joke about pigs being okay to eat, and you haven’t liked me since. So I don’t know that I really deserve the reaction that you’ve given me.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Thought I had to edit an off-place semi-colon, but it was simply a tear on my screen. Sorry.

  • Artoo45

    Gotta go to band rehearsal. I expect to see 3000 comments upon my return . . .

    • WhereIsSHE

      I’ll help to oblige;)

      • Artoo45

        Well, it’s twelve fifteen and we’re at 2645. It’s over 2500, so Imma let it slide . . .this time.

  • 1subgenius

    Someone has likely posted the TBT/Childs report today

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/scientology-seeks-to-remove-opposing-lawyers-in-case-alleging-its/2145198
    But here’s a nugget preview into the future of this case:

    “The judge now can take up the church’s next motion — a demand the Garcias submit their claims for refunds to Scientology’s internal arbitration unit.”

    Yeah, that should go well for them. Cuz ya see this judge has been down that road already.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Couldn’t you imagine this case getting to a certain point where they just agree to refund the Garcias in full? When this happens, is it the bailiff that has to clean up after Judge Whittemore’s head explodes?

      • Eclipse-girl

        at this point it is more than in full. The Garcias have spent a lot of money on the delaying tactics of the $cientologists. They deserve to be repayed for that crap too.

      • 1subgenius

        One question at a time, please.
        1. Let’s not delve into my imagination, mmmmkay?
        2. No, the bailiff doesn’t clean, or do windows.. And anyway the judge’s head won’t explode, but probably all ours will. And, I ask YOU, who’s gonna clean THAT up?

        • WhereIsSHE

          Nevermind the exploding heads…
          Who is going to clean up all of the popcorn (and JuJubes and Raisenettes and Snow Caps) in the aisles?!

          • WhereIsSHE

            Sticking with the wacky exorcism themes of body thetan removal in OT whatever,…..
            I say we hire the character of Tangina Barrons from the first Poltergeist movie as our personal medium..
            After she is done, she can say of the Bunker: “This house…. is clean!”

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              At least she wouldn’t have to look up to DM. In ANY sense if the phrase…..

    • WhereIsSHE

      Seeing as their “internal arbitration unit” is NOT actually an arbitration unit so much as it is a DECEPTIVE, FUNHOUSE version of what is typically understood and accepted as contractually appropriate “compulsory arbitration”.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        WIS, I was only half-kidding. Today was great news, but don’t you see a scenario where they just cut their losses and settle without admitting to any wrongdoing?

        • WhereIsSHE

          Of course! Settlement negotiations are always “on the table” in civil litigation matters.
          And if they are wise, they WILL engage in settlement negotiations>
          They committed fraud, as alleged, and they will pay, one way or another (settlement or verdict), IMO.

          • 1subgenius

            ‘Zactly.
            People ’round here are so gun-shy of the term settlement.
            It becomes harder and harder, though (I said that instead of “but”), as I’m sure (?ha ha?) you’ll agree, for the cult to “settle”, even if it means paying full price (including costs as another poster inquired about), because of a number of factors, including precedential value, publicity (in and out) value, etc.
            The Garcias number is big by itself. Multiply it by numbers of lesser claims even, and it’s the end.
            I can now see CoS going to trial (and beyond) on everything that doesn’t get decided on motion for the mere fact that that route would cause the most delay.
            But it’s all odds. I’m pegging the going to trial odds thusly at this moment in time….and I haven’t thought about it at all. (Assumes survival of motions)
            Rathbun: 3 to 1 of going to trial, and thus, beyond.
            Garcia: 5 to 1 of going to trial, and thus, beyond.

            As you may have noticed, I pulled these out of my ass.

            • WhereIsSHE

              You and I agree.
              Settlement is not a dirty word. People who have been wronged deserve to be compensated for it, and it that can be worked out to their satisfaction via settlement–and they can get on with their lives– then so be it. Particularly in this case, where the issue is just about the refund of “donations”.
              I get why people want to see a true battle of right vs wrong in other cases, such as in Monique Rathbun v. COS, RTC, Miscavige et al. (I’m one of those people who would like to see that good vs. evil story play out, with GOOD finally winning at the end.)

              Not a betting girl, so I will leave the odds to you and those who enjoy that sort of thing.

            • 1subgenius

              Everything is odds. Do you tell a client its a win OR a loss. Or do you give them the odds/probabilities?
              What is certain?
              Hey, if you want to say it is a sure thing or it is not, fantastic.
              I can’t even get people to give me probabilities (odds). No one wants to quantify their opinions. Actually it gives one a sure out.
              And then ask people to put something, anything, of value on it? Argh.
              It’s a way of making people think harder about their positions.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Well of course you know I have to provide a client with my evaluation of settlement range, verdict range (but I can actually perform legal research or point to recent local verdicts in order to provide examples of the high and low ends of those ranges ), and that I have to give my opinons of what kind of appearance a party or a witness will make on the stand (ususally based upon a myriad of factors, including how they were able to field questions during depositions or other kinds of interviews).
              I am still not a gambling girl though, personally speaking.
              We honeymooned in Las Vegas for the suite at the Bellagio and the killer mountain biking within fairly short car rides from the hotel;) I can walk by any table or machine without a single tinge of interest.
              I prefer the thrill of railing a good desert bern on my bike to tossing a pair of dice on a piece of cheesy felt every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

            • 1subgenius

              I’ve spent maybe $1.25 in casinos in my life (only time I was in Vegas I dug the Red Canyons and burros outside of town). Maybe $20 on lottery, and other, in my life.
              But we all make estimations of many things all day, every day.
              Almost everything.

            • ReneeG

              I would be happy for the Garcias if they got a fair settlement. I wouldn’t even hate the NDA to go with it, because I think they have already disclosed everything of interest. I hope they get a fair refund of their money plus attorney’s fees and cost of litigation. Every little bit of legal precedent that can be set is a WIN in my book. We can do this in a few big cases, or we can do this incrementally. The outcome is the same.

          • Robert Eckert

            There isn’t any “they”; there is only a “he” and he is distinctly not wise.

            • WhereIsSHE

              He was wise enough to hand Debbie Cook at big pile of cash.
              Wise enough to pay off the private dicks who chased Pat B around and sued him for breach of contract.
              Wise enough (Ha!) to give Brian Culkin a refund.
              He knows when he has to throw a bunch of someone else’s hard earned money at someone else in order to protect himself.

              My point–somewhere around here– was that he is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t in this case, because the Garcias are highly likely just the first ones in line.
              And that line… could be very, very long.. and deep.

            • Ruby

              And I will be in it!

            • WhereIsSHE

              Go for it, Ruby!!!

            • Ruby

              Yep. Just getting the right timing set… :)

      • 1subgenius

        Hard to imagine anyone showing up in court to argue this one.
        Ya know if you play all your lousy hands as royal flushes, then even a good hand isn’t taken seriously.
        Bad analogy, but….something like that.

        • Zer0

          .

          • Eclipse-girl

            I did not need to mis any metaphors. My family complains enough about that

            • 1subgenius

              Oh hi from the future. Good one.

            • Zer0

              Did we accidentally create some iterative time loop? Are you placing the Guh-LAx-y at risk of quantum mischief?

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Yes, I replied to a post which had replied to the post you never posted but then I met E-girl 2 hours after Subgenius found her post 7 minutes later.

          • 1subgenius

            Why in God’s name would you delete that? (If you did)
            My head was exploding, and I was gonna call you an expert metaphor mixologist.
            You stole my retort, and for that there is no forgiveness.
            And from 7 minutes into the future I will say to Eclipse-girl: “Good one”.

            • Zer0

              Fixed.

              I get shy if I start to feel off topic:)

              But thank you, subgenius, that was kind.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              OMG! I want your brain!
              Oh wait a minute, are you on acid?
              Never mind…. I still want to experience that moment when there is a misfire in your neural synapses or neurotransmitters ricochets along their pathways and come up with a post like these.
              Or maybe it is simply the Bloody Marys….

          • 1subgenius

            I just upvoted a post consisting solely of “.”.
            I want the record to reflect that.
            This is a very special day.

  • Seannie5

    I’ve been thinking – it’s a pity Sinead O’Connor was born into Catholicism and not scientology, considering how vocal she has been concerning the failings of the Catholic church. But – we have Leah!

  • Ruby

    There is no way to go thru all comments at this point, so hopefully people are checking newest.
    Thank you, Tony! Congrats to all! And I so dearly love my fellow Bunkerites! What a great group of diverse, underground bunker addicted friends! Cheers!

  • aurora50

    This 1990 news report, illustrated by the photo of TC and DM on their ‘motorcycles’ is eye-popping and sad; that was almost 25 YEARS ago…

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/la-scientology062590,0,3469937,full.story

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      That was a great read and find! Thanks.

      • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

        Here’s an oldie but a goodie, #9 of the 10 secret Scientology celebrities, from Cracked.com:

        Why You Wouldn’t Expect Her To Be a Scientologist:
        Having watched King of Queens, we’re more than a little surprised
        that they actually wanted her. You can almost picture her at some Scientologist
        retreat, nagging away at John Travolta for fucking up his tone scale.

        http://www.cracked.com/article_14932_the-top-10-secret-celebrity-scientologists_p2.html

  • And I don’t rent cars!

    OK FOLKS, I PROMISE THIS IS THE LAST TIME I REPOST THIS!

    WITH 2,426 COMMENTS, I’M SURE THE BUNKER’S NIGHT SHIFT WILL NEVER FIND IT.
    SO FOR THE DAY SHIFT, FAIR WARNING… HERE IT COMES…….

    Good ole Tony! Mr. News Man extraordinaire!

    I hope everyone realizes how so-o-o very lucky we are to have a “private” journalist working for us – the reader (you and me) – like this. An honest to goodness old fashion journalist who is not only from the old school of journalism, i.e. integrity, ethics, honesty, fact checked stories, access to high level and deep sources, keeping readers in mind in telling a story , ……………………….. (please add more to the list yourself), but also has kept up with the technology associated with being a reporter and editor in the turbulent times of the past decade in print journalism. Yet, because of his experience, when in times of crises like this, he can get it down to just himself, with a simple pen and a notebook, using shorthand, while sitting in a state Supreme Court!

    WHAT A SWELL GUY!

    I THINK WE ARE SO DAMN LUCKY!

    And we get ALL this and more, all for FREE!!

    So by now you have read Tony’s “live” posting today and probably buried deep within the Bunker’s 2,500+ comment pileup, but here’s a gentle reminder that NOW would be a great time to scroll up to the top of Tony’s blog and hit that yellow DONATE button, located on the left hand side of the page.

    HERE ARE JUST A FEW REASONS TO DONATE:

    If not for all that he has done for us TODAY or for his daily postings; then maybe for the recent multiple postings per day (4 posts the day before, 2 yesterday); or maybe because he also protected us, as a community, by banishing a dangerous individual from the Bunker during this very same time period; or perhaps you may want to donate because he travelled to Texas to give us live coverage of Monique Rathbun’s court case; or maybe donate because he was in Florida doing the same for us in the Garcia case; or maybe, although he puts in a Super Human effort in reporting to us all things related to Scientology, don’t forget he is, after all, simply a human being and the guy has gotta eat! (We all suspect he no longer sleeps, however.)

    REMINDER: He has no sponsors other than us, I’m quite sure. So, for any or all of these reasons, please consider making a donation to The Underground Bunker TODAY/TONIGHT!

    NOW would be a great time!

    P.S. And since Tony handles these donations at arms length by having us contact The Underground Bunker’s webmaster, Scott Pilutik, at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org, this would also be good time to tell Scott that he is also doing a GREAT JOB or to say a simple THANK YOU! – not only as webmaster but as a lawyer who has provided us with many equally great “English translations” of all the legal documents he and Tony post. What a friggin’ team!

    So let’s give them both a rousing round of applause and standing ovation!

    Thanks for taking the time to read this – Cars

    P.S. One final suggestion, the “second shift” will probably be busy and wild again in the Bunker’s comment section and I would like it if we could keep this at the top of the comments list. So, if your Disqus settings are still set to “Newest” and if everyone UPVOTES this, this reminder to DONATE stays at the top of the pile and people will be able to see it as soon as they drop in to lurk, read, or post.

    And here’s a great big “Thank you” from me – in anticipation of you, fellow Bunker (-heads), (-ites), (-ettes), helping me to do this!
    P.P.S. I’m sorry those of you in other time zones had to miss Tony’s live blogging from Tampa, but let me assure you it was simply exhilarating and he (mischievously and deliberately) kept us on the edge of our seats. It was so much fun! I hope you enjoy yourselves as much – as you read today’s events and comments.

    .

  • Carisa Marion

    FANTASTIC Reporting!!! As a future plaintiff who had many conversations with Robert Johnson, this had me on the edge of my seat for every word. lol! But even if I had no personal involvement I’d call this great entertainment! I’m so glad you were there Tony. Keep up the great work!

    • Ruby

      Thanks for being here, Carisa. I have enjoyed your posts at all forums.

    • tetloj

      Can’t wait till its your turn

  • Captain Howdy

    Goodnight you nattering nabobs of noobiness

    Piss & Blood all you chardonnay sipping quiche eating safe suburban home aging hippie sellouts

    “I took a record of pretty music
    I went down and baby you can tell
    I took a record of pretty music
    Now I’m putting it to you straight from hell”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7lfbada-Y

    • 1subgenius

      And a great big fuck you to you too.
      I bet you never had to dodge Iggy spit. You poser.

      • Captain Howdy

        I wouldn’t have dogged Iggy’s spit you poser…J/K SG

        • 1subgenius

          Ah, the hypothetical not dodging Iggy spit.

          Easy for you to say, and you know why?

          CUZ YOU WEREN’T THERE MAN!!!!!

          “Yeah, I woulda gone to ‘Nam, but I had the sniffles.”

          Actually that WAS my back up plan.
          I had a note from my mom saying I couldn’t go to the war because I had the sniffles.

          • Captain Howdy

            SG you ever get up in front of 6-1000 people who want to murder your ass until you prove you’re worthy of their adulation and they are spitting and throwing bottles and everything else they can lay their hands on? Because i have on numerous occasions.

            • 1subgenius

              No, I haven’t.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            The first print of my birth certificate had a typo on the day of the month. She saved the incorrect one in case there was another draft in my lifetime. Gotta love moms.

            • 1subgenius

              Cool story bro, and I don’t mean that in the incredulous sense of the term.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              To be fair, it’s not really “cool story bro” in any sense of the phrase. The next time we need a draft the only criteria will be “can you carry this gun? Ok.. how about this one?”

        • sugarplumfairy

          Mandy Patinkin spit on me once.. I was front row for Evita.. never, ever again..

          • jmh

            You were SPIT on by Inigo Montoya?

            • sugarplumfairy

              for two hours.. not nearly as awe-inspiring as it may sound..

          • SLIM

            Joe Jackson spat on me once….
            Not MJ’s father but “Sunday papers’ guy..

    • Zer0

      You are so ironic, Howdy. Like a black fly in my chardonnay.

      Sleep well!

  • Sarah James

    No way I can read this many posts… I hope David Miscavige has to pay all atty. and court fees. He used and abused the Garcia’s and I wish them peace.

  • California

    Yes!

    Next…………..

  • BeverlyHillsBeer

    An aside: here’s a snap of Degraded Deranged Dave Miscavige’s yacht. As sole grand poobah controlling **all** money/assets of $cientology Inc. — a business operation masquerading as a religion using near-slave labor @ approx. $0.50 per hour x 100 hours per week = $50 per week — Dave orders the movement and use of his yacht , throughout the year, every year. Infamous for his over-the-top expenditure of $cientology Inc. money to pay for Dave’s personal scuba parties/trips, the Bunkerites can keep it mind: eliminating Dave’s power to wantonly spend customers/parishioners money is one of a number of #1 goals. Dave’s yacht needs to cease being Dave’s uber million$ dollar toy.

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/freewinds-in-dry-dock-from-23-september-to-14-october.113729/

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      That looks more like a rendering than a photograph. Is the Freewinds still dry docked?

      • BeverlyHillsBeer

        ‘Tis a photo, JT. https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/freewinds-in-dry-dock-from-23-september-to-14-october.113729/

        WWP has an awesome tracking thread going, that has been following the ship. It very recently dry docked in Curacao.

        • Jo

          I checked out that thread, very interesting. Gonna get my hubby to check out the pics, he worked at sea for many, many years. Anyway brochure is strange, they advertise it like Disneyland, each to their own, I guess.

        • Jo

          Sorry for the delay. Hubby says ship must have serious issues for beening dry docked for just a week. Prob issues with propellors, bow thruster or bottom clean of ship. Would need a lot of people working on it to get it done in this time scale.

          • BeverlyHillsBeer

            Good to know, Jo – and thanks to hubbyJo, too.

      • BeverlyHillsBeer

        Here’s the BreakingWinds approaching dry dock 23 September 2013 in Curacao.

      • BeverlyHillsBeer

        Anonymous poster on WWP has extensive photos of BreakingWInds in Sept 2013. Plus intends on getting pictures of ship while in dry dock. One last picture:

        • Jo

          Breaking winds, lol

        • NevahIn

          I want to see those. Before people get wishful thinking the “Blue Asbestos FAILBOAT de la XENU (TM)” might actually be around for a while.

      • NevahIn

        I think this is a real photo, or at least an altered real one- there are “indications” of prior repairs low, above the waterline on the starboard side near the stern (right rear)

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          I’m sure they’re real, but maybe it’s the resolution or some filter they’re put through.. They look rendered, almost cartoony.

          • NevahIn

            I can see where you are coming from- I have seen other photos of better quality very close to this and others taken during the same day. If it wasn’t for see the others, I would not be nearly so certain.

          • Nevermore

            I always find pictures of their buildings look like that. Gods know what it is they do to them.

    • NevahIn

      Yes, but I can’t seem to find out exactly why she is in drydock.

      “Hull Work” is what the church is telling their people, but that could be another LRH “Shore Story”.

      Drydocks are not cheap- even in the 3rd world- for a ship that has had a recent refit I find it slightly odd.

      Is the ship showing it’s age ? Is the overworked crew having a hard time handling her ? Is it normal for a ship of her size, construction, age and level of use ?

      Consider: One disgruntled SO member in the engineering spaces could do major damage. Even skipping certain basic maintenance tasks (lubrication for example) could cause issues.

      The CoS’s abuse of people who run a ship could put many lives in danger. Some of the books on Hubbard cover the close calls at sea.

      She seems to be riding a LITTLE high in the water, but that is to be expected going into drydock.

      • NevahIn

        NOTE: I will NOT go into details here on how a ship can be sabotaged. I do NOT want anyone to get ideas and endanger human life by accident. My concern is that we might be one burned out, tormented, starved, miss-trained and/or disgruntled SO member away from disaster.

      • Robert Eckert

        What is “normal” for a ship of that type and age is to have been scrapped long long ago.

        • stillgrace2

          I remember reading that at least two of the Freewind’s sister ships from the same era have already been sunk in deep waters deliberately (scrapped) because of the nearly impossible and expensive task of removing the blue asbestos.

          • Casabeca

            Since you are still up so late, and it is finally a little calmed around here, I wanted to say I was upset that you had been attacked here. And Tony came blazing in to save the Bunker and order you back ;).
            Hope all is better now.
            Welcome back!

          • NevahIn

            WELCOME BACK STILLGRACE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • stateofcircle

      I just watched their Fleawinds video (I will not disgrace the Bunker by posting a Scilon link here) and, I hate to say it, but it looks kinda nice inside. People are always saying it’s gross, and I know everything is staged and looks so much better in a promo video, but it looks like it was recently renovated and, dare I say, nice. Kinda makes me want to go on a cruise now. Obviously not on the Thetanic though. And I would imagine the staff quarters are less than stellar. Any exes on here have any experience or stories from the Good Ship LolliCOB?

  • Narapoid

    I spent a big part of my day on the edge of my seat, ignoring work that I will regret not doing later so I could get the reports on the most boring and mundane courtroom procedure that for today was riveting. I felt like I was on trial. I have a hard time explaining this phenomenon to my family and friends… It’s a whole lot like being back in Scientology!

    There may be another posting somewhere that fills this in better, I have only been obsessing over this for 3 months and benefiting from almost all of Tony’s work, Mark Bunker, scads of interviews and clips of Bob Minton, Tory Christman and Gerry Armstrong. Books By Jenna, Wright and Marc I haven’t read yet. But here is what I am thinking of now with the history as I understand it:

    The Miscavige end Game: How will it look

    His beginning: Scientology does not have a way to pass power cleanly…by Hubbard’s design. He was the master until Jan 1986. The afterthought plans he laid out for Pat and Anne Broeker to assume those “Loyal Officers” posts were destroyed by Miscavige’s team. All opposition was gone by 1990.

    So, Miscavige has Hubbard’s power, but none of his skill in building or maintaining a Cult. He is too busy indulging himself in the trappings of power he didn’t build —with one true exception: breaking the IRS. You have to give him that, I don’t care who you are.

    I wasn’t “in” then, but it was soon after that victory he got bored and started monkeying around with the tech in 1996: Golden Age of Tech. After my experience inside, I would have thought this would have brought the house down. LRH was SOURCE. KSW in the front of every course talks about not altering Hubbard approved tech…But he did with Shelly’s assistance and apparently it was greeted with open arms.

    The Degeneration: Then he started supervising courses and PC’s without looking at them according to Marty Rathbun was way out-tech, and very likely killed Lisa McPherson. That was in 1995. A Wrongful death suit and chaos and the start of Super power building for a distraction. Rathbun states that was when he really started to abuse people, his top staff. Imprisoning them in the Hole at Int base.

    I think he knew he killed that poor woman Lisa. And somewhere from way, waay back in my readings in Scientology that he is trying to correct his out-ethics. It is not a conscience decision. But his actions of destroying and blaming those who serve him without challenge is the most telling. He thinks he is Scientology.

    And to bring ethics in on himself is destroy Scientology.

    (I swear, I haven’t thought in scientological phrases for decades until the last 3 months. Scary how it comes right back)

    The End:
    These cases are going to blow in, the money will be lost or stolen and Miscavige will be dead or in Jail. My pool: October 13, 2014 out of control of Cof$.

    Hat’s off to the little Monster, he took Scientology in a Machiavellian masterpiece. But the little Nero is destroying Hubbard’s empire, and himself with it.

    • Jo

      Think it’s now called Foctober, stole that here, the gift that keep giving.

      • Narapoid

        Foctober!!!!

        • Jo

          Yep, Foctober is the winter of our discount tent, stole that too, lol.

          • Narapoid

            :) The first time I saw Foctober was from Zer0. I have to stay off this site at least until the 18th. I have to get “at cause” over my MEST and other dynamics… Oh god….;)

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      my hunch is that the Justice Dept and the IRS, seeing criminal and civil violations, will lower the boom on Miscavage & Co, i.e., move to rescind their tax exemption. DM will call for massive demonstrations similar to the Portland case back in the 80s, but this time I think they won’t get much of a turnout, and the CO$ will wimper and fade away even faster.

      • Narapoid

        I can see that scenario. He has declared so many truly faithful, putting doubt into the remaining flock and now if he did call for a demonstration, counter demos would meet them. The internet sucks for Cof$

        • NevahIn

          R. Vaughn Young said the internet would be CoS’ “Waterloo”. I think history will prove him right.

      • NevahIn

        I think at least the IRS would love to “get even”.

    • NevahIn

      Could the end really be that close ? I am not trying to say you are wrong, but I think there is more to come.

      To be fair, and I think I said this before, they have so much going wrong at once. I really am inclined to think they are in crisis.

      I would have dismissed this kind of talk a couple months ago, but not now.

      • Narapoid

        You can never count out the resilience of this cult. But you cannot run anything without good qualified people. An army of them. And he has enslaved and debased them at Int Base. From what J Broussard said regarding those he saw there before he blew was a group of defeated souls.

        The few that are left are scared for telling him bad news that has to be acted upon. And they have to be exhausted and step carefully.

        On top of that, Rinder and Rathbun, his go-to guys from his hey days are on the outside, helping the growing masses of litigants. Others, like Victor smith who posted for the first time a few days ago are among the growing and more tightly woven group of critics and real opposition who want their loved ones back.

        If these trials go badly in Texas and Florida and when Laura DeCresenzos Abortion trails hit all at once, it will be unprecedented in the history of COS.

        My hope is Foctober 13, 2014 :))))))

  • SandiCorrena

    We needed one of those planes with the signs that fly behind it and fly over Helmet so those folks can get some real news; like today’s headlines…or freeloader debt is not enforceable…. wouldn’t that be fun!!!

    • Jon Hendry

      Or sky writing…

    • stateofcircle

      Didn’t someone try to do that once and ran into a bunch of problems? I can’t remember where i read that…Marc Headley maybe? I’ll try to find something.

      It would be absolutely amazing, though.

    • Jon Hendry

      Or the ex-seaorg number.

  • stateofcircle

    Where is Obs??
    Did they finally abduct her?
    Is she at Twin Peaks???
    Noooooo!!!

    • ThetaBara

      She came by earlier. Fear not!

      • stateofcircle

        Have we heard from her after 2pm????

  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    That was a great read, Tony! I like the work of the judge. Remains to be seen if this can be appealed (in which case I’m pretty sure it will be).

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    sorry if this is old news: “Dallas Fire-Rescue crews are attempting to knock down a three-alarm fire that’s consuming the former Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre on N. Buckner Blvd.”

    http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013/10/firefighters-attempting-to-douse-three-alarm-blaze-at-former-scientology-celebrity-centre-on-n-buckner.html/?nclick_check=1

  • stateofcircle

    Just wanted to give a hello and bunker hug to Dodo when he makes his way here! I always miss ya since you’re such a crazy night owl, which sucks, but I still enjoy reading your posts when I wake up the next day! Keep on keepin’ on brotha.

    • Johnny Tank

      I second that!

    • DodoTheLaser

      Wow… Thank you, it means a lot to me! Didn’t see that coming!

      You have a very special talent SOC – you can make other people feel better naturally.
      I call people like you – Angels or Friends.

      To all the Bunkerites who up voted and seconded SOC’s post – thank you so much, as well!
      I’m lucky and humbled.

      Yours, Dodo.

  • stateofcircle

    Does anyone here have information about Miscavige’s various living quarters? I know he has a villa that had a massively expensive renovation, and that he has an apartment in LA, but what other digs does he have? What is his Clearwater living situation like? Anything in NY or England? What do they look like?

    I have always been conflicted about him using a lot of the COS money for a lavish lifestyle. Sure, he has expensive suits and shoes, nice cars, Michelin-calibur eats, pricey scotch… but I’ve always felt he is in it waaaaay more for the power. He spends a big bulk of the funds on events, seemingly to show the sheeple and the world just how amazing Scientology is, which, to me, is a power move. And all the money he spends on OSA terrorism and spying is spent because he feels that his power is being threatened by the target(s) AND he wants to show them “who’s boss” through intimidation and reach. He hires an abundance of extremely expensive lawyers all over the country and with various specialties – the best that can be bought – to (attempt to) dominate anyone that goes after him; of course any large organization would have good lawyers, but he takes it ten steps further with the amount of them as well as their status, and most significantly the fact that he requires all of these lawyers to, basically, spend as much time in court as possible by ordering every possible motion and appeal. The billings for these lawyers, who, for the most part, are not Scientologists, must be tens or even hundreds of millions a year, and certainly much, much, much more expensive than giving an actual refund (among other types of cases as well). He is vehemently and viciously opposed to giving refunds not because of the money itself, but because it would be plain and simple defeat of his work. Hell, he shipped his wife to an undisclosed location after she dared to just make a decision without him.

    I certainly think money is important to him, but I think it is important to him because he believes it makes him powerful, and whatever lavishes he has are things that he believes make him appear powerful, unattainable and just plain better than everyone else. I don’t think he will ever take the money and run; he has no power living in an oceanside mansion in the Dominican Republic. But who knows, maybe I’m way off.

    • Sarah James

      I am curious as well. Tony would know, but he obviously has a lot going on. Might try asking Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder or maybe Marc Headley.

    • Dean Fox

      An excellent analysis, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I like to think that he lives in a state of fear. That he is prisoner of his own paranoia. That he sips cocktails on a beach of the ever-shifting sands of psychosis. I like to think that he can never relax. That just when he’s found a moment of comfort, he is interrupted by a guy who says:

      “Excuse me sir, you need to see how Observer has shooped you.”

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      An honest answer, he lives at Int. Or the “Gold Base”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Base

    • EnthralledObserver

      Very valid points… thanks for making them.

  • edge

    Fantastic reporting Tony!

  • Sarah James

    Michael Bennitt (may not have spelled his name correctly) any way he intended to video the Tampa preceding, found he could not, so he put a clip together. He mentions Tony’s fine reporting also. I don’t know how to link so you can find it on Karen De La Carriere’s facebook page.

    • EnthralledObserver

      For future reference, you just copy and paste the link into your message… :)

    • Jo

      Think this is the link ^^^ http://youtu.be/8fylho_q2O0

      • Sarah James

        TY

  • EnthralledObserver

    Ah, just got around to reading all the updates – sounds like a successful outcome for the Garcias in more than the obvious way. Another step in the right direction.
    Great job, Tony… whatever would we do without you?

  • AintMizBahavin

    lol sounds to me like Miscrewiage is finally going to get exactly what he’s been giving out all these years. let’s see how many thetans will release themselves from their human vessels to come prove to all and sundry that Miscrewiage is right in all that he has been doing..

    oh and to the cos shills reading and reporting to miscrewiage report this…. THE ELITES DONT LIKE YOU EITHER.!!!!!!!!! you dont have the RH negative factor and you’re damn sure not a khazarianazi. all that you’ve done to humanity will come back to haunt you in the worse way. you militant midget troll. once they no longer need you. watch what happens. its well documented. you’re a useful pawn to them right now. but unfortunately for you 3 part brain axx. the people are waking up to screwtologys bs. as you’re finding out… WHAT HE REALLY LOOKS LIKE without his human vessel or should i say before getting dropped in the volcano

    • Sydjazz

      Miscavige says bend over and drop em lol

  • Pete Griffiths

    “The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than win.” No, Ron, the purpose of a suit is to bring criminals to justice as your successor will find out.

  • http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/ Jonathan Jacobsen

    Impressive judge: they don’t muck about in Florida. Perhaps they could export him to Belgium?

    • 1subgenius

      I wouldn’t extrapolate the quality of this judge to all of the judges in Florida.

      • http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/ Jonathan Jacobsen

        Ah, good point: maybe the Belgians could just borrow this one. He could knock a few heads together, get the wheels turning.

  • Exterrier

    Good lawyering for the most part, excellent judging, and superb reporting. I feel so utterly ringside to all this, and am admiring how all the whales’ IAS money goes to support the judicial system and innumerable lawyers filing delaying motions.
    And just how is this “clearing the planet”, Davey?

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I can prove this as being planetary clearing, if you bear with me. For this experiment, picture yourself as being 3 feet behind your skull. Relax. Close your eyes. You are 3 feet behind yourself. Now, picture the people. What do people like? Other people? Food? Pretty things? Pretty other people?, you are nowAh fuck I forgot the step where you put your wallet on the table forget it

      • Exterrier

        Aw ww… You missed out. I was a Scientologist so long that I’d already put my wallet on the table out of habit. :-)

  • Graham

    Disqus technical query. If I want to review my past posts all I need to do is click on my name on any of my posts and a box appears. However, this does mean scrolling down until I find one of my posts. Is there any way I can get this box to pop up without having to search for my last post, buried as it is in a sea of 1 000+ other posts!?

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Yes the little gear icon will give you access to your account

    • EnthralledObserver

      You can also just click on your avatar pic at the top ready to post new comment… or hit reply to someone’s post and click your pic and it will pop up too.

      • Graham

        Thanks. Useful to know!

  • Verve

    2663 comments is less than 24 hours. That has to be a record.

    • Sydjazz

      2672

    • Robert Eckert

      Record is the two days of the Mosey Rathbun hearing. The first was well over 4000 but split between two posts; the second day was about 3500 on a single post.

  • Sydjazz
    • Sydjazz

      P.s the bunker gets a mention

      • Nevermore

        Oh, the shame!

  • 1subgenius

    Note to OSA lurkers:
    There will be a date after which blowing and going to the authorities will not get you immunity, or any other special consideration. And it will be sooner rather than later.

    Just a word to the wise.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      If one is not an OSA lurker… Can one still get special deals and what nots… For good faith and such

      • 1subgenius

        There’s no harm in asking.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Marc Headley’s top/best post got 281 up votes so far. 251 of them are guests. Who are these people? :)
    Welcome guests!!!

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I think it’s a disqus glitch. Sometimes I’ll up vote something and it’ll list me and like 24 Guests, or whatever. After a refresh or a cache clear it’ll display them properly.

      • DodoTheLaser

        I guess time will tell.

    • noseinabk

      If only that was 251 scion or see org.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Even 51 can make a difference.

    • noseinabk

      Just checked the previous days best post and at 162 it lists 141 of those are guest. Hope its mostly regular lurkers.

    • Drat

      I was logged out of Disqus recently and upvoted a comment. It got counted as “Guest”.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Good point, Drat. Still, there have to be at least 100 real Guests who up voted Marc’s comment.
        I’m pretty sure there whole lot more who read his post and Tony’s report and didn’t click, yet.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          A lot of people still stuck in scn lurk, and Marc is very popular with them for obvious reasons. I don’t doubt he got a shitload of up votes just from scn lurkers today.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          True that as well

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        You can up vote as guest, but have to login to down vote. Sometimes it’ll display up votes as Guest even if they’re from a logged in user, until you refresh. But the up votes from guests do count and remain.

  • Graham

    test

    • noseinabk

      OH NO, nobody told me we have test to take a test! :-)

      • Graham

        Just testing that my new avatar works. Taken me over an hour to sort that out!

        • noseinabk

          I had to reload to see you new Av.

          Very Pretty!

    • DodoTheLaser

      Nice flower :)

      • Graham

        Something sunny to counteract the bad $cio vibes.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Great!

          • noseinabk

            NEW post up.

        • Cat Daddy

          “here comes the sun”

  • noseinabk

    If anyone has a link to any CL ads that need to be flagged please post. SF and Sacramento are all gone and NY only has 2.

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=3&subAreaID=&query=scientology&catAbb=ccc

    • Nevermore

      Looks like Tampa is ‘clear’ now!

    • Snippy_X

      Lisa 678-337-8349 Atlanta

  • Nevermore

    I thought $cilons believed we come back multiple times?

    Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley9h

    there’s only one time you can be happy…present time…nothing else exists so forget about the past and the future for 1 moment and be here

  • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

    Just sayin’ . . .

    • DamOTclese2

      This was fun, yeah. :)

  • chukicita

    For me, Robert Johnson has always been that Delta bluesman from the 1930s who sold his soul to the devil at a crossroads…

  • Jgg2012

    I just thought of something: Karen de La Carriere says that Scientology keeps no records. Therefore, if Scientology is asked for evidence that Garcia’s money was used for the Super Power Building, they will have none. It’s bad enough if the building is unfinished (breach of contract), but, if the money is embezzled for other purposes, that’s even worse.

    • Michael Hobson

      I’m sorry, I seem to have missed anywhere that Karen ever said that. Where exactly did you see that (link please) ?

      • Jgg2012

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-hHmWy2Pag
        The first minute of this–“no auditing” and “no books”.

        • Michael Hobson

          Forgot to thank you for posting that, so thanks. :)

          Listen very carefully, there are no *external* audits and no *external* oversight.

          Church of Scientology has a computerized “Finance System” internally with records of all member’s accounts for purposes of tracking book and materials sales, training & auditing donations and auditing hours used. I would be very, very surprised, if there were no electronic records of IAS, Superpower Building or other donations *internally*. The International banking systems track deposits, withdrawals and transactions between different banks ,as well and Law Enforcement in nearly every nation has access to those records for criminal investigations.

          Any records in a computerized system can be obtained by one means or another, if Law Enforcement ever got serious about investigating these issues.