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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Meet Dennis Nobbe, Miami Chiropractor and Scientologist!

Dennis_Nobbe3We spoke yesterday with Beatriz Biscardi, the EEOC attorney who filed a lawsuit on May 8 against Dynamic Medical Services, Inc., a Miami chiropractic business run by a Scientologist named Dennis Nobbe.

On May 9, we reported that the EEOC had put out a press release announcing that it was suing Nobbe’s business for forcing his employees to take Scientology courses that had them “screaming at ashtrays or staring at someone for eight hours without moving.”

As press releases put out by federal agencies go, it was a weird one. Within the week, the story had been picked up by major news organizations, each of them imparting little more than what was known from the press release or the legal complaint.

But we wanted to know, how did Nobbe and the government get to this point?

We told Biscardi that as far as we knew, when people file complaints to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and the EEOC investigates and finds merit in their claims, an employer has multiple opportunities to resolve the situation short of a lawsuit. We asked if our impression was correct, and Biscardi said yes.

“The case went through the process that it had to with the EEOC. The named claimants in the lawsuit filed charges, and their charges were investigated. There was an attempt at conciliation that failed. We then got involved and a lawsuit was filed,” she says.

So Nobbe, the owner of Dynamic Medical Services, had an opportunity to fix things, but that didn’t happen?

“Conciliation efforts are confidential,” Biscardi told us. But she did explain that it is somewhat rare for cases to get to this point, with a lawsuit filed in federal court.

“Not that many cases make it this far. Nationwide, I’d say only about 200 are filed in a year,” she says.

In the lawsuit Biscardi filed, Nobbe’s firm is accused of violating the civil rights of four named former employees — Rommy Sanchez, Norma Rodriguez, Yanileydis Capote, and Maykel Ruz — as well as a class of unnamed current or former workers.

Rodriguez, for example, started working for Dynamic in 2008 as a salesperson — making calls to bring in new customers for the clinic — and right away she was told she also had to begin Scientology courses which Dynamic itself put on. In those courses, she experienced the typical low-level training that any Scientologist goes through, including staring contests and shouting at ashtrays, lessons which are known as “training routines.”

In 2010, she was told that she’d also have to begin attending courses at a local Church of Scientology, but she refused, saying she was a Jehovah’s Witness. She was told that Christians attend Scientology courses, but she responded that she didn’t care, she didn’t want to go. A week later, she was fired, the complaint says.

One of the stranger parts of that account is that Dynamic was allegedly putting its employees through Scientology courses at its own offices.

We’d known that Scientology has long targeted chiropractors and dentists and other businesses through its business administration front group, the World Institute of Scientology Enterprises. WISE tells these businessmen that it can teach them how to run their offices so they maximize profit with “administration technology” discovered by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. (Business administration was for some reason one of Hubbard’s many obsessions, and seemed to be modeled after his experience in the Navy during the Second World War.)

When a chiropractor or dentist gets involved with WISE, they are advised to begin training as Scientologists, and then get as many employees and even patients involved as well — which also happens to feed the local churches with new paying members.

We’re learning that Nobbe was a particularly fanatical WISE guy.

“He had his own academy,” says Frank Oliver, a former Scientologist who worked as a spy for the Office of Special Affairs in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and who, like Nobbe, was involved in the Miami “org,” Scientology’s word for “church.”

Oliver introduced us to two South Florida women who also have an extensive background with Nobbe and told us about his long history running his own Scientology academy for employees.

“The academy was across the street from his office on Bird Road in Miami,” says one of the women, who asked not to be identified. Employees would go across the street for Scientology courses when they weren’t working in the chiropractic office, she says. “He required all of his chiropractic doctors to go to the org for courses. Some did auditing, some did training to become auditors.”

The woman, who worked at the academy, says Nobbe had a reputation for being a major player in the local org. “Almost the whole time I knew him, I was in the bubble, and his reputation in the organization was so large because he’d donated so much money. He was getting all kinds of pats on the back. For buying books, and helping with renovations. And then the money he was making, some of it was coming from dentists and chiropractors and other professionals he was bringing in,” she says.

Here’s a 2008 notice from the Miami org celebrating Dennis and Chris Nobbe for achieving “Silver Humanitarian” status — which appears to indicate that the Nobbes had given $250,000 in donations towards a new “Ideal Org” in Miami…

 
Dennis_Nobbe_Humanitarian

 
And a 2009 flier for a seminar that touts his success…

 
Dennis_Nobbe_Flier

 
“The academy was easily as big and decked out as some of the missions,” says the other woman, Patti Thompson, who at one time was a mission holder herself — a sort of franchisee running a facility that would provide entry-level church courses. She says she understood what kind of pressure Nobbe was under to get new employees to go with the program. “As a Scientologist you have to do that kind of shit. You have to force people in, whether they want to or not. You have to get them to take courses to improve your own stats.”

We asked them if they had an opinion about why Nobbe — pronounced KNOW-bee — had been unable to work something out with the government short of being sued and facing the possibility of a large judgment.

“It’s because he’s a Scientologist,” says Thompson. “He isn’t going to act the way most employers would. He wouldn’t consult an attorney or other business people. He would go straight to the org. Scientologists don’t think with the same toolkit.”

We wondered if the church would be helping Nobbe out with representation. When we called Dynamic Medical Services and asked for Nobbe, we were told the business had already put out a public statement about the lawsuit: “Dynamic Medical Services prides itself on the diversity of its staff and denies that it engaged in any improper or unlawful actions with regards to its employees.”

Biscardi says she hasn’t heard yet who will be representing Dynamic in the court case.

“We filed our complaint. It’s been served. Now we’re just going to wait for them to respond. No one has made an appearance, so we’ll wait to see,” she says.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on May 22, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • EnthralledObserver

    I liked it better before you clarified the pronounciation of “Nobbe”… I think this guy is a ‘nob’.

    • coonellie

      Hah! I thought the same thing ;)

    • stanrogers

      And Hyacynth Bucket pronounces her name “bouquet”. Doesn’t make it right, just pretentious. I know several Nobbes who are “nobs” only in the saying, not in the doing.

      • FistOfXenu

        Really? It’s “know-bee”? I’m trying as hard as I can not to make fun of this. I have this urge to him “Obi Wanker Know-bee”, does this make me a bad person?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          No, but this does makes you a funny person.

      • SciWatcher

        Haha, I thought the exact same thing when I read that!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        BaaHaaHaa…I just now got that!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

        He probably used to say it “naab” like everyone else, but when he became such a scientology wanker he wanted to be cool, and the pun of “know” and “be” of scientology jargon was just too sweet to not use. So now it’s “Know-Be”… Simple

        • richelieu jr

          Yeah, he was just ‘Nob’ until he met his first English person and they collapsed laughing and had to be hospitalized….

          • Peter Robinson

            That;ll be ‘KNOB’, as in knob joke. Knob being the male member. Nob being a member of the aristocracy.

            • richelieu jr

              Well, they would only have heard it at that pint, you see. If they’d seen it written, they’d know immediately how it was pronounced!

            • http://www.facebook.com/christine.jarc.3 Christine Jarc

              Soprano here. In English (lyric) diction, the rule is that the first vowel in the first (or only) syllable is pronounced as a closed (i, e, o) vowel. If the vowel is followed by a double consonant, it often changes the vowel to open (ɛ, ɑ,ɚ). However, “let the reader take note of the following exceptions…” (The Awful German Language by M. Twain). Pretension was not among the sins Twain mentioned.

    • Vistaril

      Rather than silent, I guess the “K” is invisible ; )

    • Poison Ivy

      A whole passel of Bunkerites all shared your thought at the same time. Must be the whispering of our body thetans.

    • monkeyknickers

      I had the exact same thought. :) I’ve been a-snickering. Dang.

    • John P.

      My first thought was of Joe Piscopo doing an impression of Frank Sinatra with a cold singing “Strangers in the Night:”

      noo-bee noo-bee noo

      • richelieu jr

        My nephew has a t-shirt that says:

        ‘First be, then do.’- Buddha
        ‘To do, be’- Tao
        ‘Dooby-dooby- Doo’– Sinatra

    • richelieu jr

      Your English pronunciation can be so funny and random! For example:

      Nobbe changed it from his birth name ‘Charles Percival Winston’ which was pronounced= “Gobshite Penisbreath Windbag’…

      • John P.

        Imagine that! The French complaining to the Americans about a language with bizarre pronunciation.

        • richelieu jr

          We have the Alliance Française, mon ami.. Pronunciation is standardized and as it is spelled…
          English, due to it’s roots and ability to assimilate other languages and words, has no governing authority and no truly standardized pronunciation.. A good English pronunciation rulen is true, what, about 75% of the time….? ‘
          “The wind is blowing!” “Wind your watch”

          Not to mention “Cough”, “Ghost”, etc…

          Was it Dorothy Parker who said that ‘fish’ is spelled “ghoti'” in English?
          (Sorry to be so defensive, but I try so hard on my English and it is not always obvious, I can tell you!)

          • John P.

            “Ghoti” was George Bernard Shaw.

            Je n’aime pas l’Alliance Française et ils me déteste aussi. L’agent d’immigration à l’aéroport De Gaulle me dit toujours que ce serait un incident international si je devais essayer de parler français pendant mon séjour en France. Cela est certainement dû à l’influence de l’Alliance Française. Mais je suis un Américain, et j’ai le droit de parler un mauvais français, à tout moment et n’importe où, peu importe combien je oreilles françaises de dégâts dans le processus.

            • richelieu jr

              Ha! Je ne sais pas si tu as lu ce que Mark Twain a écrit à ce sujet– Il a dit:

              “In Paris they simply stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did
              succeed in making those idiots understand their language.”

            • John P.

              Alec Baldwin brings your Mark Twain quote to life in this Saturday Night Live sketch: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/4YyXH4bzRlo

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

              He investigated why his work was not appreciated in France, and read a translation of “The Frog Jumping Celebrated from the County from Calaveras” He reported that the sentence “I ain’t seein’ any points about that frog any better’n any other frog” turned into “I no see not that this frog have nothing of better than each frog.” (Je ne vois pas que cette grenouille ait rien de mieux qu’auxcune grenouille)

            • richelieu jr

              I have read that as well (I love Twain!), however I suspect that the problem is more in his translation back into English The French is almost perfect, and has the same sens (there is a flaw, but in keeping with the colloquial aspect of Twain’s original- In fact, the French may be a bit too correct, IMHO)..

              Here is the French as I would translate it back into English:

              “I see nothing better about this frog than any other frog.”

            • http://www.facebook.com/christine.jarc.3 Christine Jarc

              As I mentioned above. “The Awful German Language.” What is fun about German, and this drives the French mad, is that delightful habit German language speakers have of making up words. Like a cluster of Legos snapped together. Twain mentions as an example the chore of reading a German language newspaper- that one is lucky to get more than a few words per column inch.

              In any case, I think the authentic way to pronounce the creepy chiro’s name is “nah-bee.”

            • Bella Legosi

              So you were stopped by immergration in DeGaull international airport, they showed you their pendent, as you were a tourist, or gave you a pendent for taking a tour. You were entertained by France Alliance airelines, where you made an inpromtu high inteseisty speech where you discussed h

          • Missionary Kid

            To add to the complication, there are so many different forms of English that have been modified by native populations in other lands.

            Was it Shaw who said that Britain and the United States are separated by a common language?

            • grundoon

              I see it on The Internet, so it must be true:

              “England and America are two countries divided by a common language.” – George Bernard Shaw. This supposed quotation doesn’t appear anywhere in the copious writing of GBS. A similar idea was expressed by Oscar Wilde in The Canterville Ghost, 1887, some years earlier than Shaw was supposed to have said it: “We really have everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language”.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for fact checking that one. I did that from memory, and obviously, I was wrong.

              Edit: One source says that the Oxford dictionary of quotations attributes it to Shaw, but says that it’s not in any of his written works. (They accessed the published edition, then posted it online)

              Your quotation by Wilde was in print. It gets murky according to different sources.
              http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/897.html

              My solution: I won’t attribute it to anyone, and I’ll just steal it.

          • ThetaBara

            I have a lot of French friends and I can say you are easily the most intelligible – although you all have great senses of humor and satire!

            • richelieu jr

              Aw, thanks! I have to admit that I spent a lot of my childhood in America though, so…

    • john

      your picture says it all

  • coonellie

    Great article! Thanks :).

  • Observer

    “Dr.” Nobbe certainly looks smug for someone who paid in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars for a giant, gaudy certificate in a craft store frame. He no doubt expects the L. Ron Hubbard Fail Tech to prevail over the EEOC. I wonder if he’s heard of that dentist in Oregon …

  • FistOfXenu

    What I want to know is how can you check if your dentist is 1 of these nobs? I’ve got really good teeth for my age and last thing I want is some jackass messing around with them. Worse yet, if I happen to communicate my feelings about $cientarCONon in my dentist office I don’t want any “accidents” and I don’t want any KRs going any where. Do I sound paranoid?

    At least give me this, look at pictures of Hubbard’s “smile” and tell me you think $cientology Dental Tech (TM) is worth shit?

    • Ms. B. Haven

      FOX, see my other post on this, but it is pretty easy to find out about almost anyone these days by just googling their name + scientology. The internet makes it difficult for scientologists to hide behind any of the sleazy front groups out there. Once you get good at it, you can smell these sleaze balls a mile away even if they don’t slip and insert a scientology tainted word or phrase into their promo.

      • FistOfXenu

        Thanks Ms. B. Haven. I’ll have to make friends with google. :)

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        There’s also this rather outdated compilation by the CoS itself:

        http://home.scientology.org/

        Since there are only 16,000 names on this list (or so it is claimed), we will assume the other 8-10 million or so haven’t gotten around to joining the site.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          And here’s Nobbe’s page:

          http://www.oursites.org/dennisnobbe/

          • Missionary Kid

            What’s interesting is that he supports all of the usual Co$ front groups…except narCONon.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            “Never let it be said of you that you lived an amateur life. -LRH”

            I always like reading the LRH “favorite” quotes on these generic sites.

            • Captain Howdy

              Those “oursites” testimonials were part of the net nanny program if i remember correctly.

              http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am sure. They are retarded!

            • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

              I still have an original net-nanny “I am a scientologist” disc.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              The whole concept of the “net nanny” for grown ups still makes me chuckle to myself.

            • Captain Howdy

              Wow, I can have it?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Why? Are you trying to abstain from porn and Marty Rathbun?

            • Captain Howdy

              I was just kidding Michael, and why would I want to abstain from porn?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I couldn’t imagine….that is why I was confused.

            • Captain Howdy

              I want it for the same reason I wanted a shrunken head or any kind of SK collectible. It’s an artifact of evil.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, yeah…..I get that. I collect weird evil shit too.

            • Francois Tremblay

              Cause half of prostitutes report being forced to perform for porn, cause work conditions in porn are atrocious and in any other industry would be considered criminal, cause you’re a decent human being who doesn’t objectify women? Just a thought…

            • Captain Howdy

              Gee, a feminist anarchist without a sense of humor. How rare is that?

            • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

              As long as I have it, it might be evidence in a court case, chain of custody and all that. I’d be willing to give it to a worthy case that needed original un-altered proof of scientology crafting a hidden computer software program and tricking scientologists into installing so as to censor members internet search ability for some terms like “xenu” that scientology didn’t want them seeing.

    • Heroder

      You could always get a second opinion. The fraudulent scientology dentists (i.e., the ones that help you open new credit card accounts to pay for unnecessary procedures) would be easy to spot by their treatment recommendations.

      • Get Chutney Love

        You can also contact the local Dental Association in the county or parish, they’ll recommend someone good who wouldn’t be a Scientologist, I would think.

        • Heroder

          Scientology: Making Religious Discrimination Appropriate Since 1952

      • Ms. B. Haven

        Spotting some sleaze ball scientology dentist (or any other professional) by their recommendations of unnecessary treatments or procedures is unreliable. Conventional wisdom says that wog dentists prescribe the unnecessary stuff when they need to make a boat payment. A scientology dentist will need to buy another auditing intensive or improve their IAS status. On the surface this it is difficult to differentiate. The sure fire way to spot the scientology dentist is that there will be a Flag reg or IAS reg firmly attached to their ass squeezing them for every last nickel they can.

    • John P.

      Let’s do a quick Global Capitalism HQ Numbers Dive™. There are about 160,000 dentists in the US. Assuming that there are perhaps 4 support staff per dentist, we can estimate the total employment of dental care in the US at about 800,000 people. Out of a labor force of 153.9 million, this means that dentists employ about 0.5% of the population.

      The last time I came across a WISE directory, there are about 6,000 businesses from all industries listed. If you assume the number of WISE dentists is the same as those in the overall labor force, you’d get 30 Scientology dentists. But since we know that WISE targets dentists and chiropractors, let’s take an extremely generous view of the penetration of dentists in the WISE directory and assume that there are ten times the incidence as in the labor force. That gets you to about 300 Scientologist dentists in the US. But even if we triple this number to account for Scientologist dentists who are not active WISE members, and for other measurement errors, you still get only about 1,000 Scientology dentists in the US. That’s 1,000 more than there should be in an ideal world, but the odds of walking into a random dentist and finding out that they are a Scientologist is fairly low, less than 1 in 100.

      And of course, they can’t help themselves so they will proudly display all their useless certificates on the wall, have racks of literature and books in the waiting room, and give you all the other clues that you need in order to walk out without their getting their hooks into you. And they will have lots of charts and graphs taped up on the wall in the office area.

      Of course, the other commenters are quite correct in pointing out that very little can be hidden from Teh Google. I think you’re safe.

      • ThetaBara

        Damn. I guess I no longer have an excuse to avoid going to the dentist!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I have got another good reason for you.

          The invoice!

      • monkeyknickers

        I’ve been to Laramie a few times. There are plenty of other people you should worry about running into. :)

        • BuryTheNuts2

          No shit! And all freaking fourteen of them are armed!

      • richelieu jr

        I’m guessing i Laramie Wyoming, Scilon dentists are the least of your tooth troubles…

        From what I’ve seen in the movies you just get a shot of bourbon and they go at you with a pair of pliers..

      • Bella Legosi

        I wish I had worked for an out of the closet Hubbard freak (the one who ran the adult foster home). I didn’t know she was into scientology until some younger dude broke her heart and she went batshit nuts. That is when Dianetics, the Basics, and auditing expenses came up on her books. I wondered why the woman I replaced would come over and they would go up to my bosses room for hours. Then when the woman left my boss acting and saying some of the craziest shit, all in tone 40. This woman didn’t join WISE, wasn’t a real donor wasn’t too active in the “church”, but goddamn did the “tech” fuck her world up and everyone around her as well. Thank Christ for South Park, cuz had it not been for that episode I really might have taken her copy of Dianetics home to read, instead of telling her I didn’t believe in any religion that makes its followers pay money to learn its doctrine. That was the first time I was called Supressive!

        Point is, there are members who do fly below the radar of Google. Since she was my very first experience with the wonderful world of scientology and what great things it does for its followers, I have been always on guard, always looking out for red flag words (improving conditions, KSW, ect), and I have always made it a rule that when ever I am near a person’s collection of books, look at them. Those books can tell you more about a person then the person will tell you honestly in under 2 minutes!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          If you looked over my collection of books you would be left baffled. My reading tastes are… eclectic.

          • Bella Legosi

            :D

            I like eclectic! I have been trying to find old classics for my shelf. I do have first edition copies of Rise of the Third Reich (English first edition) and Inside the John Birch Society. But my library ranges from Crime and Punishment to Memnoch the Devil; Daniel Quinn to Jim Marrs.

      • aquaclara

        Just love when you run the numbers, JP!

      • FistOfXenu

        I like this. it’s like figuring the odds on a hand in poker. Makes sense of it. Thanks John P.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

      One. Seeing any literature or poster anywhere in the business that has a quote attributed to LRH.

      Two. Any literature or poster or personnel that uses key scientology words: Affinity, reality, communication, ARC, tone scale, reactive, restimulation, engram, incident, theta, auditing, O.T.,WISE, cycle of action, communication cycle, etc. Scientologists pepper their speech with these words and hubbard-like sentence constructions and don’t realize they are speaking in code.

      Three. Any literature or poster that has key symbols: ARC triangle, S inside double triangle, dianetics pyramid, (Green or gold, horizontally divided into 4 steps or layers), the 8 point scientology cross, stylized posters showing a “bridge”, Tone Scale, etc.

      Four. Visible paper graphs on the walls for “statistics” like Gross Income, (GI), letters in or out, cycles of action, patients in, etc. I don’t know of any business that puts these kind of stats on the walls for anyone to see, that isn’t scientology.

      Five. The three basket communication system. Every person’s desk will have a stack or arrangement of three baskets: In, pending and out. This could be normal, but it is part of the hubbard tech explicitly.

      Six. unusual scientology related jewlery. Clear or OT bracelets, IAS pins, Key to Life or Life Orientation Course pins, or any other of the tchotchkes that come with scientology membership.

      Seven. Sales tech that seems to come right out of an infomercial or a used car lot. Probing for personal information, being sized up. You’ll feel it.

      Of course, it’s a bit of a differential diagnosis. Many business owners are people who have their fingers into multi-level marketing, lucrative “special” vitamins they sell or other new-age flavored things. They can be probing and have strange speech too. But since scientologists are pretty much commanded to get out there and ‘disseminate’ to everyone, you should be able to pick up clues rapidly.

      • FistOfXenu

        Thanks Michael. Now that you say it like that I think I’d recognize the obvious stuff you mention but your 4 and 5 I’d’ve just looked at and not paid attention to. I know enough to know it’s not like I can just tick boxes unless it’s something like the cult’s trademarks and symbols.

        Especially 5 though I’ve seen that in places that I know weren’t $cientologists. I even did it that way when I tried running my own business. I started with just in and out but I made a 3rd basket because I needed someplace to put stuff I didn’t finish. And I did call it pending. So I’ll have to be careful with that 1. But thanks for this list. It helps me to organize my thoughts like that.

    • richelieu jr

      If you wake up with a sore throat and a cough and find out that a copy of Dianetics has been shoved down your throat while you were out, you may need a new dentist, FoX!

      • FistOfXenu

        I lolled at that. If I find a copy of Dianetics shoved down my throat even I’m going to know he’s a $cieno.

    • Bella Legosi

      Just ask them if they are willing to prescribe benzo’s for intense procedures. I have actually done this to a few dentists and chiropractors. When they say no, they will not prescribe benzo’s, I start taking in very ambiguous terms about psychiatry. Usually from their response to that loaded topic i can get a good feel if they drink the Hub Kool Aid. I do always look for certificates/trophy’s that are displayed. Thankfully I haven’t run into a scientology Dr.Giggles or Backcracker yet.

      • FistOfXenu

        Interesting idea about psychiatry Bella. I always check certificates and stuff though. But they use dental anesthetics like regular dentists right?

        • Bella Legosi

          Yeah the psychiatry idea is really used from my, Are they born again? loaded question and answer shpills I have used and developed while in Alaska. All you need is one subject you know they will answer to according to the doctrine.

          All the dentists I have been to have used anesthetics, but no gas. I have never been gassed, but last time I was prescribed some Ativan before the surgical extraction of an impacted wisdom tooth. He would not prescribe Percocet and said he expects the FDA to put a moratorium on it (that never happened), but instead gave me hydrocodone (generic Vicodin, same shit). That is why I will employ questions about psychiatry. Any scientologist public or indie will have a lot to say about them, which for me is telling, especially when SciSpeak starts to come out while they do it. Upon the second visit I saw his office and certificates. No Co$ on display. And if you heard the way his partner talked about drugs, you would be convinced that these were no Kool Aid drinkers but some pretty hip dentists!

          • FistOfXenu

            Right. Thanks. Some good ideas there.

            • Bella Legosi

              It is defiantly a undercover, fly below the radar, type tactic, but if employed correctly should give you a good sense of a person’s beliefs, with out that person really knowing what you are doing. Like I said I started doing this to Christians in Alaska (they are worse then Sara Palin in some respects), but a lot of them “love bombed” the hell out of me as soon as they saw I was really not willing to give my heart and soul to Jesus. They tried to be tricky saying they liked some of Marilyn Manson’s music and that their Teen Youth Center played “rock n roll”, and maybe just maybe I would like to hear it. If that didn’t send my flag up in a state of red alert, I would remark on the Trinity, talk about Saints, and usually by then I would know what Jesus flavor Kool Aid they drunk and that I should prolly stay away from them–for there are not many Catholics in Alaska and I learned very early that a lot of them were of the “born again” tribe. So it was almost a three tiered system to find what flavors of Kool Aid were going around. A lot of Anglican, Pentecostalism, Baptist, and Mormons. They all loved what I had to say until religion came up! That I do know for sure. Many a Christian has prayed for this girl’s soul, only to have her believe in a fictional, Ex Angel, who stars in a fictional cult like CW TV show! lol

  • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

    I wonder which Dynamic his medical service is intended to address.

    I so hope (for everyone’s sake/sanity/mental imagery) it has nothing to do with the second.

    • OTWhat?

      Ew.

    • FistOfXenu

      Dynamic-shmynamic. This addresses KSW. All together now class,
      MAKE MONEY MAKE MORE MONEY MAKE OTHERS PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.
      And All Your Money Are Belong To Us.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        KSW?

        Keep Scientologists Working … to have money to “donate”?
        Keep SPs Winning? … nah … that old be KSPW
        Kilted Scientologists Waltzing?
        Kippered Scientologist Whales?
        Kinky Scientologists Winking?

        This is fun …..

        • coonellie

          Are you sure you didn’t become John Cleese?

        • Captain Howdy

          Keep Suckers Wondering

          • http://www.facebook.com/gayle.smith.3994 Gayle Smith

            Keep Suckers Working (and paying to us)

        • VickiStubing

          Kaptain Stubing’s Wonderful bahahaha

        • richelieu jr

          Krappy Scilon Writing

        • richelieu jr

          Keep Savings Waning

          Kiss Satan’s Wang

          Kill Someone’s Willpower

          Krappy Silly Wankoff

        • sugarplumfairy

          Kick scientology weasels?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Do you want to kick something or what?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. You know me so well..

        • sugarplumfairy

          Kick scientology wankers?

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrewr47 Andrew Robertson

    Great to read Patti Thompson’s informed comments! As a former Mission holder, she has to be considered an authoritative reference source.

    It’s interesting and comforting that there are so many highly intelligent people who happily use the adjective ‘former’ before a phrase denoting a past association with Scientology.

    Andrew

    • Captain Howdy

      I’m sure you’re familiar with this site I just found, but just in case.

      http://www.cults.co.nz/index.php

    • BuryTheNuts2

      It is almost as if they are proud of that part. Funny that!

      • http://www.facebook.com/gayle.smith.3994 Gayle Smith

        Can’t imagine why.

        No, wait, yes I can.

    • richelieu jr

      It is spelled ‘former’ but pronounced “Damn I’m Glad I got that Ridiculous Monkey off my Back”

  • OTWhat?

    He was probably taking advice from the church’s ethics officer – typically a 20 something year old kid with no real world experience and a Nazi-like attitude.

  • stateofcircle

    Ohhhhhh I get it. Scientology is NOT a religion when it’s used in the workplace, but it IS a religion when people want their money back.

    This will be an interesting court case.

    • Vistaril

      Yep. Scientology is the only “religion” in the world which sues the IRS for tax exemption on the grounds of its alleged religious status while simultaneously sues others who write on the internet about Xenu on the grounds that doing so breaches its “trade secrets”.

      • Jgg2012

        And people who point those contradictions out are “hating haters who hate.”

      • Lady Squash

        Clever, I’d say. If you can have your cake and eat it too, isn’t that the way it should be? Truth, honesty, integrity…please. That’s for sissies.

  • SFFrog

    Nobbe is clearly such a “big being” that his wife is almost entirely pushed out of frame in that photo..

    • HeatherGraceful

      I saw the same thing. He looks pretty pleased with himself.

  • Captain Howdy

    “but she refused, saying she was a Jehovah’s Witness.”

    Can I get that story with extra crazy?

    • Poison Ivy

      Probably the best thing the Jehovah’s Witnesses have done for humanity at large in a while.

      • mirele

        “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is
        that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in
        politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force
        citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.” — Justice Robert H. Jackson, US Supreme Court, majority opinion, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943)–a Jehovah’s Witnesses flag salute case.

        • Poison Ivy

          I stand humbly and greatly corrected!

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          Not only have they pressed for human rights around the world that benefit their own views but also translate to non-believers.

          Their quest to receive high quality care consistent with their views on blood (I.e., no transfusions) have resulted in doctors pioneering methods/medications reduce/conserve blood loss in major surgeries (e.g., knee, hip, heart replacement) resulting in the need for shorter hospital stays and faster recovery rates.

          They are also the only known religious group persecuted by the Nazis who could have gained their immediate release by renouncing their faith; something few of the ~6,000 detained in concentration camps did compared to the ~1,400 who died instead. The US Holocaust Museum site has more info.

          • Phil McKraken

            JH’s are the reason that surgical technology evolved to result in lower blood loss? Color me skeptical.

            • Missionary Kid

              A partial reason, because they refuse transfusions, and that got doctors thinking about ways to get around that barrier.

              Low blood loss surgery was developed, stimulated by this need. It has reduced the necessity for as much blood in surgery for other patients, too.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I wouldn’t say that it wouldn’t have happened independently.

              I’m saying that their working with the medical community, at times being willing guinea pigs for some technologies, undoubtedly moved things along faster than what might otherwise have occurred.

            • John P.

              I checked with two friends, a surgeon and a professor of anesthesia regarding the comment about JW’s being a catalyst for low blood loss surgical techniques. They laughed. Actually, one laughed and the other merely snickered.

              According to the anesthesiologist, much of the training they undergo in dealing with JW’s is about how not to get sued, since surgeons allowing a JW patient to die on the table when a transfusion would save them are just as likely to get sued by the family for letting the patient die as they are to get sued by the JW for administering a transfusion against their wishes. When a high-risk JW patient is in for surgery, the hospital legal department may put a judge on standby to issue an order to perform a transfusion; they can put the judge on the speakerphone in real time right from the OR if they need a court order to override the patient’s wishes, and it is usually harder to sue successfully when one is granted.

              According to the surgeon, the key impetus for low blood-loss surgical techniques is simply that the less blood is lost during a procedure, the greater the survival rate.

              The surgeon did not discuss the other, equally important reason for innovations in bloodless and minimally invasive surgery. As we in Global Capitalism HQ well know, charity and noble goals are great, but if you really want to understand why people do things, look at the economics. Surgeons didn’t develop these surgical techniques out of altruistic respect for the JW’s (or anyone else), they did it because in addition to better patient outcomes, inventors of cool new surgical techniques get those techniques named after them, procedures take less time, and because, as a result of all the above, surgeons make lots more money and get famous and they keep more of their money because they get sued less frequently. This is actually a nice case of medical outcomes and financial incentives aligning reasonably well.

              Two inventions (among many) have been important in enabling low blood loss surgery: the Bovie electrocauterizer, which is run along the site of an incision to seal capillaries that would formerly have leaked blood into the incision, and the heart/lung pump and other devices that allow the heart to be slowed or stopped during cardiac procedures and then restarted predictably. Increased oxygenation via tracheal intubation perfuses tissues (particularly the brain) with oxygen and allows the heart to be slowed significantly, again reducing blood loss during surgery. The Bovie has been around for at least 80 years (around the time the JW’s gained a distinct identity as a sect), and intubation has been around for at least 40 years that I know of.

              Many other smaller-scale inventions like the relatively more recent use of glue instead of suturing in complex vascular surgery also greatly increase survival and dramatically reduce blood loss in those specialized procedures. If you’ve ever seen a Fem-Pop or Fem-Tib procedure in the olden days (it happens that I have), those were messy, to say the least. Lots of blood would erupt from leaking joints when you unclamped the femoral artery to see how well those hundreds of sutures would hold up. These days, those kinds of procedures are pretty boring.

              The idea that even the most routine surgical procedure is only a millimeter away from fountains of gushing blood is something out of bad TV, and is decades removed from reality. It’s not unlike Hubbard’s alarmist vision of pregnancy as being a series of knitting needles and odd double entendres constantly poised to either abort the hapless fetus or give it terminal engrams.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Is there anything you don’t know about? Paleomagnetism? Sea Ice Physics?

              I kid, but I’ve yet to find fault with anything of yours I’ve read.. Although frequently I have to word clear a sizeable portion of it..

        • richelieu jr

          This argument (the the JWs are responsible for these medial advances) seems like saying George W Bush should be credited for advance sin Stem Cell research because he cut funding and denied it entirely tot hose who didn’t use existing stem cell lines…

          Just because someone solves a problem you created doesn’t make you co-creator.

    • sugarplumfairy

      See, you skeptic you? Religion does have a purpose.. To a degree, it can insulate you from money-sucking chiropractors who are into pseudo-religious brainwashing..

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Only if one of co-workers was a Raelian!

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      Only if one of the folks fired was a Freezone squirrel …

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

      Sorry, extra crazy is included as part of the original recipe. All the crazy is in there.

    • tetloj

      Jehovah’s witness and a Scientology chiropractor – that’s a trifecta of crazy

      • john

        I see two , not 3 on this , tri is three

  • FLUNK_101

    “staring at someone for eight hours without moving”

    What is it with Scientologists and the 1000-yard “stare” that Scientologists are famous for?

    “the stare serves as a signal of threat for humans, just as it does for other primates” (Chevalier-Skolnikoff, 1972; van Hooff, 1967)

    “At least in this culture, a direct gaze is also believed to convey openness and candor and to elicit feelings of intimacy and trust. ” (Eibl-Eibesfeldt, 1970)

    “the stare, in effect, is a demand for a response, and in a situation where there is no appropriate response, ten- sion will be evoked, and the subject will be motivated to escape the situation” Ellsworth et al. (1972)

    As I was finishing my first course in Scientology, the “Communication Course,” it said to go out and use the “TR’s” (Training Routines) in my life, and write up the results.
    So, as an experiment, I went around staring at people in a supermarket. Women were avoiding me like the plague, steering their shopping carts away from me, as I stared at them and asked, “Do fish swim ?”
    Then, I went to the bus stop.
    Without getting on the bus, I stared at the bus driver and asked, “Do fish swim?” He responded, “Do birds fly?” and drove away.
    I wrote it up, just as it happened, and that was my “success story.” I wasn’t allowed to keep it – it was confiscated by the course supervisor.

    • sugarplumfairy

      When people stare at me I wiggle my ears, cross my eyes and blow raspberries.. Yah, I’m still single..

      • FistOfXenu

        I’m surprised you’re still allowed out alone. :P

    • Poison Ivy

      You are on fire lately, Flunk ;-)

      • FLUNK_101

        Call 911! Yeah, I catch fire once in a while, but it’s nice to see you warming up to me.

        • stillgrace

          Good to see you staying on the rails, FLUNK. Keep it up!

    • richelieu jr

      Wait a minute… you never got your answer! Do they swim, or not?

      Don’t leave us hanging, man!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Would I want to go to a chiropractor that is proud of having the largest business of its kind in South Florida?

    A person is allowed to put “Dr.” in front of his name because he is concerned and extremely knowledgeable in healing. They are well compensated, partly so the concern won’t be quality of care, not business pursuits. At rateyourdoctor.com a common criticism is, “Why did he even go to chiropractic school. Why didn’t he just start a business”.

    Now here we have a chiropractor, in a medical area which Hubbard might call, “wobbly”. His concern is to grow the practice. This could mean bringing people in who don’t really need treatment or convincing people who need treatment that more is better. It could also mean being so good at your job, that word of mouth would get everyone to come to your office. But if he was relying on quality and word or mouth, that can’t really be taught in a seminar can it? That comes from having genuine integrity, giving people time and learning your lessons well in school.

    Chiropractors are too often thought of as people engaged in quack medicine who try to maximize their income. In fact, the quality of care from chiropractors I have known seems to reflect the individual. I hope Dr. Dennis Nobbe becomes simply Dennis Nobbe and soon.

  • Stuart Young

    Still struggling with why so many intelligent people get sucked into this house of horrors, manipulation system.

    • Mary_McConnell

      Desire for more knowledge, power, and money at a vulnerable time.

    • Vistaril

      Scientology has had more than sixty years to perfect the con.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Fortunately for us, the megalomaniacal big being at the helm of the con is also a self- destructive tantrum- throwing micromanager..

        • SciWatcher

          Emphasis on “micro”

      • Heroder

        And they still suck. Fortunately, their ecclesiastical leader is a high school drop out who has anger management problems. If he had a single iota of competence, it could be much worse.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      Intelligence has nothing to do with it. All humans have hopes and fears. Humanitarians work with their fellow man on these issues and con men of all strips are able to capitalize on these issues. Hubbard was perhaps the greatest con man ever to walk on this earth.

      • Poison Ivy

        He was right on there on the list, that’s for sure.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        i dont think scientologists are humanitarians ( just sayin )

        • 0tessa

          They are only interested in SELF-betterment.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I would change that to SELF- enrichment.

        • Ms. B. Haven

          Just to clarify, I didn’t say that scientologists are humanitarians. I said that humanitarians work with their fellow man… To me humanitarianism implies altruism and with scientology it is ALWAYS about the money, hence the con. Scientology is about as far from humanitarianism as one can get. I’ve yet to see even one example of altruism in scientology, not even one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

            yeah …even Hamas feeds the homeless. I never got that about scientology ..they don’t even TRY to seem charitable

            • Captain Howdy

              “even Hamas feeds the homeless”

              Hamas, Hezbollah, the Hells Angels, and the Black Panthers have done more to help people that the “church” of scientology ever has or will. Sad but true.

            • FistOfXenu

              They would but they don’t want to oppress the homeless and hungry with all that criminal exchange.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Why actually DO anything charitable when you have Bridge Publications and can print your own fake propaganda?
              It is ‘the way to happiness’.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            It is built into Scientology teachings. Charity is actively discouraged. But don’t take my word for it. Here is a statement from their own “Find Out For Yourself!” web site. The question is, “Does Scientology believe in charity and welfare?”

            “It does. However, Scientologists also believe in the principle that some form of exchange is necessary in any relationship. If a person only receives and never gives, he will lose his own self-respect and become an unhappy person. Therefore, Scientology-sponsored charity programs often encourage those receiving the charity to make their own contribution in exchange by personally helping others who are in need. Such contributions enable one to receive help and yet maintain their self-respect.”
            http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-beliefs/does-scientology-believe-in-charity-and-welfare.html

            There is no free lunch in Scientology, even if your neighbors are starving. As they put it, “some form of exchange is necessary in any relationship.” And, of course, when they say, “Scientology-sponsored charity programs often encourage those receiving the charity to make their own contribution in exchange by personally helping others who are in need,” they mean that anyone who wants a free ride from the CoS can start selling books, taking classes, giving classes, or join an Org as an unpaid slavey.

            • aquaclara

              Great comments. It basically throws the concept of charity out the window, as the only way the COS will help someone is when they are paid for it.
              Some f*cking religion. (Eric isn’t here and I believe it might have been a day since we last said this.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

      actually ..thankfully ..not a lot of people did . There are more jedi’s now than scientologists . I think you can fit more people into a Lady GaGA show that there are scientologists so there is hope. I for one ..would avoid both ;)

    • BosonStark

      It really is the oddest mixture of Buddhism, talk therapy with Amway stat-driven military-run success. The dentist and chiro office that belong to WISE grow their businesses by squeezing patients for all kinds of plans and services they don’t need. It seems like it’s going to backfire on the whole thing one day.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        i don’t see the buddhism in it at all . just the entire basis of scientology’s version of whatever they mean by “exchange” is as anti – buddhism as it can get.

        • BosonStark

          I think it’s the, you are an eternal spirit part. It’s a mystery to me why anyone who knew anything about Buddhism could get involved in Scientology, but I think they probably see it through a Buddhist lens, or something, at least initially.

    • monkeyknickers

      Intelligently strong people are “more able” to do the extreme mental gymnastics required to buy into eternity. They sell it to themselves better than anybody could. That’s the central ickiness of the con.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        well …i adore you ..and i want to babysit ;) …but thats crap ( hugs..)

        • monkeyknickers

          Oh you are SO gonna babysit Kim. :) I already made up your room. In fact, *I* might need babysitting today. The woman who watches Ash when I’m working told me last night that she’s moving back to Honduras. So I cried. No dice. I played the “I’m pregnant and broke” card. Nuttin. She is an immovable object.

          I think what I’m trying to say (badly) is that even intelligent, thoughtful people are afraid of death. Combine that with someone’s desire to help others, to be part of this big important exciting epic battle between good and evil, and you’re fucked. Once that happens, it’s anybody’s guess about motives and ability to discern correctly. Like the whip smart biology student who still believes that the bible is the word of god and has to develop a whole bunch of theories as to how dinosaurs got on the ark and prove it’s really okay that god commanded Noah et al to commit incest to repopulate the planet. I mean, yah, it’s idiotic as a result, but it’s also incredibly imaginative. Had these people not been tainted with creationism (etc) they could’ve put that imagination and smartitude towards legit science and I would finally have a fucking hovercraft.

          But I’m still thinking on this because my gut reaction is exactly the same as yours. It’s like a science experiment at this point. Because obviously, intelligent people DO get in pulled in by this. Bright and kind exes are all over this blog. So it EXISTS, you know? And I suppose (for obviously selfish reasons) I want to know WHY.

          (how are you doing??)

    • Missionary Kid

      There’s no connection between emotion and intelligence. People are sucked into it by a need to improve themselves. Once in the door, everything is done to isolate the new person from outside influences, redefine their terminology, and to get them to accept the Hubbard world view. It’s done subtly.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        http://www.gizmag.com/emotional-intelligence-brain-mapped/25980/

        In other words. David Hume was right all along!

        (That emotion guides reason instead of visa versa…I am paraphrasing)

        • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

          i like your avi today ~ ;)

          Marty – you suck

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Thanks Kim.

        • Missionary Kid

          I would say, in most cases, yes. The need to heal our sore spots is a powerful need, and, at times, we all override the rational part of our brain and we’ll go down rabbit holes to attempt to “heal” them.

          I’ve seen several cases of people who, once they take over a thriving business with a good brand, run it into the ground to put their own stamp on it. They have little or no respect for the business because, at the core, it is not their concept.

          I maintain that is especially true for DM, especially since he has knocked off all others who might give him counsel and help him to KSW. As a result, Co$, which never worked particularly well in the first place, is eating itself alive from the inside.

          The Indies are right in saying that DM is ruining $cientology, it’s just that they have so much invested in LRHs crap that they can’t admit it’s totally crap.

      • MarionDee

        Yes, that’s how cults do it, M-Kid. People get sucked in because they want to improve themselves. They feel a vague malaise and the cult tells them, “it’s not YOU who has the problem, it is THEM. The clueless outside world. But you are special. You’ve found the key.” But unfortunately, the key is available only through the cult–who will teach you the neverending steps involved in its use, at their leisure, while holding you in financial and emotional bondage.

        My ex, who joined the LaRouche cult, had a genius IQ.

        • Missionary Kid

          I don’t know if you’re glad to be rid of him or not, but I sense a feeling of loss.

          You’ve described the process perfectly.

          • MarionDee

            Much loss, M-Kid. That’s why I’m here. Thank you,

            • Missionary Kid

              Losing someone to a cult like that is like a death, but with the person still alive but inaccessible. It is crueler than a death and divorce because it is abandonment that has no rhyme or reason to a rational, caring, individual. You might as well tell people that he’s moved to North Korea.

              The only advice I can offer is for you to get involved with a face to face support group – perhaps one for people who have had spouses or significant others die, if they’ll accept you.

              This forum can be good, but I would think you might need a lot more. That’s just my opinion, but other people her usually have better suggestions.

            • MarionDee

              Gratitude to you, M-Kid, and all the people here for understanding.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve been lucky that the fundamentalist Christianity I was raised with didn’t practice any sort of disconnection, even after I was clearly not a believer.

              There are many who are here who have experienced the pain of disconnection from Co$, and who understand your pain all to well.

              Those are the ones who can probably help you the most. I wish you well.

            • aquaclara

              Sorry for your loss, MarionDee. Glad you’re here! And hope it gets better for you soon.

    • richelieu jr

      Intelligence is obviously relative, but one of the things I got from Wright’s book in particular is that Scientology holds a great attraction for seekers and most expecially those who consider themselves ‘free-thinkers’ and bit smarter than everyone else; it flatters that part of them whist simultaneously working overtime to erode any actual free-thinking; This is how Paul haggis got into the cult..

      Celebrities get sucked in this way too, plus the usual (and understandable) guilt that comes with getting obscene amounts of money, power and sex for doing relatively little, many throw themselves into politics or charitable works to be able to look in the mirror.

      Scientology, like Ayn Rand’s nasty funhouse of twisted mirrors and backwards ethics, convinced them it’s OK, they deserve it because they actually ARE better and things are as they should be. Charity is weakness and their greatness is to be embraced, not hidden. They’ve always known they were different, better; now they know why.

      Just write another check you fatheaded, good-looking chump.

      (also, the shorter the celebrity, the better, for obvious reasons…)

  • Dorothy Gale

    The highest level of WISE membership (called Charter Member) costs $10,000-12,000 per year. Plus the lucky member gets to owe WISE 15% “tithes” from anything collected for WISE courses. If the member has any legal problems, a “WISE Charter Committee” is supposed to help resolve it. In exchange for paying all that money to WISE, they are expected to support the member if they get into trouble (kind of like “protection” in the Mafia). WISE totally failed Nobbie. Not only did they push him into this situation, they gave him bad advice and failed to help him avoid this kind of problem, which is supposed to be their purpose! Even though WISE totally betrayed him, Dennis is too much of a Kool-Aid drinker to realize this. He will be told that HE is out-ethics, or PTS, and that’s why he “pulled it in”. Yeah. Boy, it makes it look like these trained OT8’s are a real mess. WISE was just another channel used by the Church of Madness to suck them dry. The Nobbies are still young enough to get out and have a few good years left in them to get a life outside of the Church of Leaches. Sigh. Unfortunately as True Believers they can’t think outside the teeny box that has been crafted for their minds.

    • John P.

      When talking about WISE, I think it’s important to try to distinguish between the structure of fees paid by a WISE consultant and the structure of fees paid by a target company (e.g., Nobblehead’s chiropractic office). It sounds like you’re talking about the fees paid by a WISE consultant to the WISE organization, a royalty on the oh-so-valuable “tech” that they teach. That is consistent with royalties on other intellectual property, such as book publishing. That is how I understood your comment.

      But it strikes me as extremely unlikely that WISE gets 15% of revenue from their target companies. 15% is a very healthy profit margin for a small business in general (some industries make more, many such as restaurants or retail usually make less). If your 15% “tithe” is correct for the end business, then essentially, WISE helps itself to the entire existing profit stream of a client business, and then the owner is left figuring out how to either grow by 20% or to cut expenses by 20% both to replace the profit stream Scientology has appropriated and to make some more profit than he did before in order to “prove” the “tech” works. It’s unlikely that many businesses can just turn on the spigot and achieve either of those things in the short term, or even in the long term. It strikes me that many successful small business owners, mindful of the years of toil that they put in to grow their businesses this far, aren’t going to see anything that Scientology could possibly do for them that would be worth their entire profit stream. So I have to believe that the money from end businesses comes from courses that they pay for on behalf of their employees. Of course, the “tech” taught in those courses is complete quackery, but at least WISE is only getting money for courses, and not muscling in like the mob and taking all the profits.

      It sounds like Nobbe is doing both — he runs his own “academy” so he pays 15% of THAT money to WISE, but keeps the profits from his dental practice himself (only, of course, to turn around and hand them directly to the cult to get those trophies and certificates).

      I would appreciate any clarification and perspective on how the WISE thing works from people who have been directly involved in it, particularly from target businesses, as well as from people who tried their hand at WISE consulting.

      • CharleneHux

        I was once the Dir Income USGO (now OSA).

        The setup is that all scn affiliated groups, such as NN, ASI, WISE, pay licensing fees to use the “tek”. These fees are/were forwarded to OSA. The fees at that time were between 8 and 12% off the top (gross income, not net profit after expenses). I’ve heard they’ve increased to 15% since, but cannot verify this. They also get listed in good standing as a church group if they pay their fees and in bad standing if they don’t.

        WISE consultants operate more independently. They pay fees to WISE to act as consultants, then charge businesses a percentage of their profits. This is usually initially based on “how much stats have increased” (so, maybe 10% of the increase, which initially seems reasonable to a manager). There is also an option to pay for “consulting services”, and those costs are exhorbitant, considering they are not even college trained.
        Eventually, the businesses are paying “management fees” for the consultant to do next to nothing. Then if things don’t work out, the consultant conducts witch hunts for Suppressive Persons.
        The more successful consultants focus on networking within the scn community. Some are also FSMs (Field Staff Members) for Scientology, so get a 10% commission paid by the “Church” for any services paid by someone they bring in. They also push for the businesses to do this as another income source.
        In short, the Church of Scientology is a business. WISE consultants are basically freelancers that set up an intricate scientology community network of business referrals that make it financially difficult to break. Both businesses and consultants are substantially rewarded for getting more recruits to the “Church” (cough) of Scientology.
        The whole thing is basically a pyramid scheme.

        • http://www.facebook.com/andrewr47 Andrew Robertson

          Thank you for the elaboration of the money flow upwards. Whilst Hubbard’s primitive ‘Management Technology’ with its demands for ever increasing profit, ‘Org charts’ and ‘hattingness’ is likely to cripple and destroy most businesses, his model for increasing the Scientology corporation’s income is quite clever for a pyramid scam by the addition of simple psychological cloaking.

          ‘Spiritual Eternity’ assured by the amount of money one donates. Some people fall for that. And it’s a valuable lesson for the future after they crawl their way out of bankruptcy.

          Good thinking, Ron!

          Andrew

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m wondering how many businesses end up failing after being infected with WISE.

        • aquaclara

          Thanks for the data!

        • John P.

          Charlene, thank you so much for the detailed perspective from someone who’s been there. It is extremely helpful in my work of trying to understand the financial picture at the cult and to try to build an accurate scenario of what happens next. These details are immensely helpful. I am grateful. Please feel free to continue to comment here with any additional details you feel might be helpful. Thanks!

      • Dorothy Gale

        The 15% refers to the WISE Academy that Nobbie had operating across the street from his practice, as well as any consulting he may have been doing through his membership. No, WISE does not collect 15% of his practice income. But anyone paying for courses in Nobbie’s WISE Academy? Absolutely yes, the 15% goes up the line.

        The WISE Charter Committee membership is the highest level of WISE membership and allows the person to operate an academy for WISE. Doctors like Nobbie become funnels for their local org, as has already been noted. If Nobbie was the main funnel for that org (Miami) and his operation is essentially shut down, then that org is really suffering right now. Nobbie may have been their hero for a long time, but now he’s in the dog house. The Dear Leaders of WISE and of the ORG will need a scapegoat, and Nobbie will become the target.

        Is anyone looking into whether or not Nobbie is also committing insurance fraud? Does he also bill medicaid/medicare for lots of services that were never actually performed- similar to the evidence that exists that Narconons are involved in such practices? Scientology front groups tend to be consistent in how they operate, the heavy top-down authoritarian structure is equally demanding on all fronts. Nobbie was under tremendous pressure to raise funds for scientology in any way he could. It’s likely he also got caught up in the same practices as Narconon. Other scientology-doctor cash-cows have been caught and convicted for insurance fraud. This should also be looked into with the Nobbie case.

    • richelieu jr

      It’s amazing that it coast that much for WISE, but then you can try to

      ‘WISE UP’ which is higher and costs nothing at all. just open your eyes,think for yourself, and GTFO.

      • Phil McKraken

        How else would you know to use an In tray, Out tray AND Pending tray? WISE brings to the fore LRH’s experience running IBM and the Union Pacific Railroad simultaneously.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Nrmmm Noah Miller

    Chiropractors already skeeve me out. The process comes from something as viable as Scientology, which is to say not very viable at all. And it’s purely a business, so they’re totally primed for this stuff. But Nobbe does seem to be a special case, an utter devotee with the money to get all the love bombing he can handle.

  • http://twitter.com/sandyshores50 Sunny Sands

    That 2008 notice in Spanish where Nobbes are #4 on the list for giving $250K has 25 names on it. If they each gave $250K, that is a lot of money.

    That smug look he wears in all the pics goes along with the report he refused to mediate.

    He’s another person who kept getting away with illegal behavior for so many years, he thought he was invincible. Now he’s going to fall hard. And sci is going to thow him under the bus and hunt for fresh meat. Dr. Nobbe, when you wake up, we’ll be here for you.

    • Poison Ivy

      In his mind, it wasn’t illegal, because the Wog Laws do not apply to Big Beings (in his case, a rather literal moniker) who are Saving The Planet.

  • Vistaril

    ” . . . “It’s because he’s a Scientologist,” says Thompson. “He isn’t going to act the way most employers would. He wouldn’t consult an attorney or other business people. He would go straight to the org. Scientologists don’t think with the same toolkit . . . “

    Quote of the day, and kinda sad because its so true.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bradgreenwood Bradley Greenwood

      Too bad the “toolkit” only contains a screwdriver.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’ll call it a screwydriver.

      • Ciru

        There must be a drill in there too.

      • richelieu jr

        I think there’s a sort of forceps for separating the buttocks to easier insert your head…

        It’s not like the old days when you had to lube up your hair and do it yourself…

        • SciWatcher

          Hahaha, you’re on fire today, richelieu!

      • Bella Legosi

        Can’t perform a lobotomy with out a drill!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Sure you can. Icepick + hammer.

          • Bella Legosi

            Come one bury! We need to be professional about this! Can’t get sued for a bacterial infection can we?

            • Captain Howdy

              Icepick and a hammer is how they did it in some cases.

              http://youtu.be/79i64XcQrzo

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I will bring some Neosporin, …or vodka….or something!

            • Bella Legosi

              Good cuz you know we couldn’t infect the hole we are drilling to literally scramble someones egg to the point where they can no longer move or talk! That would be soooooo against the Hippocratic Oath!

              *sarcasm*

              Goddamn weird ass pycho-surgeons and their psychiatric friends! They are the reason a lot of people agree with CCHR and hold up Scientologists to the level of ‘good protesters’! Finks!

              >(

              I hate it when Co$ scores sheeple points by using Dr.Feelgood’s! It’s like Mussalini talking shit about Nazi’s cuz their uniforms were too grey or that Nazi’s weren’t radical enough! It enturbulates the hell out of me!

            • Bella Legosi

              Neosporin for them, Vodka for the docs!

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. Necessity is the mother of invention..

  • Ms. B. Haven

    These WISE guys not only prey on their employees, they prey on their patients too. I got a referral to a local chiropractor so that I could use my insurance to cover other services his office offered besides chiropractic. I was going to one of these other providers in his office, getting the service, the insurance paid; no problem. After several visits, I was told that I had to see the Dr. before I received my treatment. I thought that was odd, but went along with it after the office staff explained that it was necessary in order to process my insurance claim. The drill went something like this: I would check in at the front desk and tell the receptionist why I was there, she would ask if I had seen the Dr. yet, I would say no, she would say that I needed to see the Dr. before my scheduled appointment, the Dr. would come out and say something like – “how are you doing?” and make a quick note on a form, I would then go to my scheduled appointment. This would be no big deal, but since being required to ‘talk’ to the Dr. prior to my appointment my insurance was being charged an extra $100. A $100 dollars for one or two questions! This asshole was even pricier than a scientology auditor!

    I can smell these bastards a mile away these days and a quick google search of his name and scientology told me all I needed to know. WISE guy. I immediately quit using services at his office and decided to do something positive. I was worried that he may have not received Debbie Cook’s email, so I printed that off and sent it to him. Actually any sort of entheta easily found on the web would do. This service can be custom tailored for anyone you choose.

    I live in a small area, so I was curious about who else in my community was lurking out there hiding behind a scientology front group. I found a very handy scientology website, where you can ‘meet’ scientologists on-line! http://home.scientology.org/. This is a pathetic cookie-cutter website that is a bit outdated, but it is a great source for contacting scientologists in your area so that they too will have the opportunity to get Debbie’s email or whatever entheta you choose for them. There used to be a direct contact link on this site, but it has been disabled (I wonder why???) but good old snail mail works just as well and I think the small investment in the postage to reach them is well worth the investment. If I can help just one of these folks get their head out of their ass it is worth it to me.

    • Vistaril

      Kristi Wachter’s site is great too: http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/

      A search on Dennis Nobbe returns this result:

      STATE OF CLEAR Source 631988-09-01
      SUNSHINE RUNDOWN Source 631988-09-01
      L 12 RUNDOWN Source 631988-09-01
      L 11 RUNDOWN Source 651989-02-01
      L 11 RUNDOWN EXPANDED Source 651989-02-01
      L 10 RUNDOWN Source 691989-12-01
      OT PREPARATIONS Source 851993-01-01
      NEW HUBBARD SOLO AUDITOR COURSE, PART TWO Source 851993-01-01
      ELIGIBILITY FOR ISSUE OF OT LEVELS CHECK Source 851993-01-01
      NEW OT I Source 851993-01-01
      OT II Source 851993-01-01
      OT III Source 851993-01-01
      NEW OT IV OT DRUG RUNDOWN Source 861993-04-01
      NEW OT V AUDITED NOTS Source 861993-04-01
      PROSPERITY RUNDOWN Source 861993-04-01
      HUBBARD DIANETICS AUDITOR COURSE Source 861993-04-01
      ROUTE TO INFINITY COURSE Freewinds 131994-07-01

      • Captain Howdy

        Chris Nobbe is an OT VIII.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

          geez ..he is fat and sweaty . Kind looks like Tom Siezmore to me …eeewww

          • Captain Howdy

            That’s an insult to Tom Sizemore, and he’s going to track you down and give you a beating because of it.

            He looks like Norm.

            • Vistaril

              Heh! Dennis heads to his favourite bar after a meeting with the legal team at the EEOC:

              “Hey Dennis, how’s the world treating you?”

              “Like a baby treats a diaper”

              http://youtu.be/HPqPAKqzx7M

            • Captain Howdy

              :))))

            • tetloj

              Peter Griffin w/o glasses

          • http://www.facebook.com/bradgreenwood Bradley Greenwood

            I am “fat and sweaty” as well. Does that put me into the same class as Dr. Nobbe?

            • http://www.facebook.com/bradgreenwood Bradley Greenwood

              Being disabled has left me less attractive than before.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Just makes us love you more..

            • http://www.facebook.com/bradgreenwood Bradley Greenwood

              You are sweet :)

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              My uncle is fat and sweaty ..he reminds me of the sweet bear on that show ( forever ago i am sorry to say ) Big Ben i think it was ;)

              That guy looks like a fat crack head ~ thus my Tom Siezmore comment LOL

            • sugarplumfairy

              Now, that’s something I don’t hear very often.. ‘specially ’round these parts..

      • Observer

        ROUTE TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

  • Mary_McConnell

    Very
    insightful article, Tony. Thanks to Frank Oliver, Patti Thompson and
    the others who gave some needed background on why Nobbe is such an
    idiot.

  • derfty

    Why ashtrays? Some sort of resentment?

    • Mary_McConnell

      Scientology communication training ‘routines’ include having a person move about bottles and yell at ashtrays, among other bizarre things:

      ‘Tom Cruise Told Me to Talk to a Bottle': Life at Scientology’s Secret Headquarters
      By Tony Ortega Wed., Nov. 4 2009
      http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/11/tom_cruise_was.php

      • FistOfXenu

        Sad thing about it is that when they’re chain smoking they still have to fetch their ash trays the regular way like everybody else. You’d think at least they could stay where they are and just bellow “Ash tray! Come here! Thank you!” but no, they have to get up and walk to where it is and pick it up. With their hand!

        • Poison Ivy

          I Dream of Jeannie had more powers than all the world’s OT’s put together.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol..and a way prettier uniform..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And an extremely cozy bottle to live in.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Me for Samantha Stevens. I’m more of a supernatural-girl-next-door type.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I think Ashton Kucher should punk one of his artsy scientology buddies and rig an ashtray to come when it’s called..

          • Poison Ivy

            The moving ashtray – I don’t know why Hubbard never thought to do something like that! I guess it would’ve given away the con when some smart skeptic found the wires. The con was far more powerful when it was just a suggestion in the minds of his dupes.

          • FistOfXenu

            Rube Goldberg could put something together.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I think he already did.. Whatever did we do before Al Gore invented the Internet?

              http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00000168/00001/39x

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s the 1! Imagine that, somebody found that old thing and stuck it on the web. Thanks SPF.

        • ThetaBara

          And then they have to thank it anyway! Thanks, ash tray. Thanks for NOTHING!
          Hi Downey. Got your stats up?
          You could just blow…

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I personally think LRH was taking his frustration with his nasty Kool smoking habit out on the poor ashtray in an example of transference.

  • FistOfXenu

    I don’t start out with a great opinion of what chiropractors do. Then you add $cientology to it and I’m scratching my head over here. Chiroquackery + $cientarCONon = WTF?!

    And I’m sorry for offending anybody that uses chiropractors. I know there’s different kinds and some don’t believe any more what the original chiropractors beilieved. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

    • sugarplumfairy

      A lot of people don’t appreciate chiropractors until they’re in intractable pain.. The relief they offer is temporary, but when you’re in pain, any relief is a godsend.. and some chiropractors are better than others..

      • Captain Howdy

        Chiropractic is complete and utter horseshit every bit as much as scientology, and Daniel Palmer was every bit the conman, fraud, that Hubbard was

        SPF, didn’t you watch the video I put up before?

        http://youtu.be/tQb8FK2PM6Y

        • sugarplumfairy

          Missed it.. After I watched the one Tony posted, I was finished.. I’m not a risk taker..

          • Captain Howdy

            You MUST watch it. MAKE IT SO!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Okie dokie..

            • sugarplumfairy

              Wow.. Once i watched a few seconds of this on my phone, i knew it could pass for an educational webinar, which we’re encouraged to view on duty.. So I opened it on one of the computers at the nurses station.. Maybe the attraction was Alan Alda, but you just disseminated this to 4 surgeons, 6 nurses, 1 P.A., 2 nurse practitioners, a unit manager, a unit clerk and a chaplain.. 1 of the surgeons said “I already knew all that crap,” but the rest of us agreed we were impressed.. Thanks, Cap’n..

            • Captain Howdy

              Tell them they’re welcome and I’ll bill them later.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Everybody here is pretty tight with their moolah, but I bet if i tried, I could score you a free adjustment.. =)

        • 1subgenius

          BTW, thanks for that. Its really a must watch for anyone with any interest in the subject.
          Its outrageous that they are legal, and that some insurance pays for some of it.

          • Captain Howdy

            You’re welcome SG.

          • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

            sheeesh, after watching that, i am surprised they have not gone for religious exemption.

        • mirele

          Captain Howdy, thanks for the video. I knew already that there was nothing behind the theory of “subluxations,” but video this answered a bunch of questions I had, such as, where does the popping sound come from? and how can manipulations on the neck cause damage?

        • richelieu jr

          I just opened it in another ta, so i couldn’t see anything, but it started automatically and in less than a second I knew it was Alan Alda…

      • Ze Moo

        Chiropractors have their uses. They can make good physiotherapists. I find a good doctor and a good physical therapist can do wonders. I spent some time with a neurosurgeion who taught at a local medical school for a back injury. I asked him if a chiro could help with my injury. He suggested tarot cards and sacrificing chickens would be more helpful.And if you get the cole slaw you get some fiber. MDs and chiros seldom get along.

        The US edition of 60 minutes did a good story on chiropractors a few year ago. Unfortunately, I can’t find it at cbs or youtube.

        • ThetaBara

          I had great results from a non-force chiro when I was injured. I know that’s anecdotal. But I was really REALLY jacked up and it made a huge difference.

  • sugarplumfairy

    His pretty wife must be brainwashed.. Just sayin’..

    • Missionary Kid

      They both are. She enjoys the money that he supposedly makes, too. It’ll be interesting to see what will happen after the gummint gets done with him.

      I vote bankruptcy for the business. What will happen to his personal finances is somthing else.

  • CoolHand

    I agree with Vistaril on the quote of the day, “Scientologists don’t think with the same toolkit.”

    Scientologists are taught to be arrogant because they have “certainty” from Hubbard’s invented ramblings. Hardcore Scientologists lack real-world understanding, compassion and human decency. Common sense applied to simple things outside the world of Scientology is practically non-existent when looking at the world through Hubbard-colored glasses.

    • 0tessa

      Common sense has been swapped with Hubbard’s ‘sense’. Anyhow, you’ll loose touch with reality.

      • Heroder

        Scientology: A Recipe for Insanity

        • BuryTheNuts2

          It is also the only thing that has a recipe attached to it that I don’t want to eat!

  • MarionDee

    I must have had weird dreams last night, because this morning it feels too much like Philip K. Dick for comfort to contemplate something called “LRH technology” for chiropractors. The possibiilities are endless. Just glance at this page and tell me you aren’t scared:

    http://www.google.ca/search?q=chiropractic+tools&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WLucUe_wE9KsqwGqxYDIAw&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1264&bih=667

    And as for dentists, the promise that you can “learn the DRILLS that will allow you to great expand your own prosperity” … doesn’t that speak for itself? Too “Marathon Man” for me, or Steve Martin in “Little Shop of Horrors,” immortalized here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xm7A4GoA2s

    (Apologies to anyone here involved with these professions. I adore my own dentist. Have never seen a chiropractor.)

    I think this is going to be one really strange day.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Whoa! With that page of tools it looks like chiropractors are suffering from domination fantasies–all they need is a black latex hood and a zipper. Hmmm… domination fantasies. Yep, they fit right in with the $cientologists.

      [No chiropractors were harmed in the making of this comment.]

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Yeah, except the Scientologist’s aren’t allowed to act on the Domination fantasies in a way that is any fun.

        • ParticleMom

          Scientology sounds perfect for those with submissive tendencies. Well, except for the lack of safe words.

  • Mary_McConnell

    There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of Nobbe’s out there extorting employees to attend these things in order to keep their jobs. (Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.) Please help expose these companies and scientologists running them. Help do to WISE what is being done to shatter Narconon. Join Reaching For The Tipping Point Forum and share what you know, anonymously or otherwise

    http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/board,19.0.html

  • dwayners13

    So let me see if I get this, when it comes to the IRS, Scientologist claim they are a religion, however when employers force their employees to take the exact same Scientology courses it’s parishioners take, they do so in a non-religious manner. When the church is promoting Narconon’s success rate, it part of the church’s outreach program, however if someone dies at the facility or an employee steals from them, Narconon is not part of the church, they just use some of the ‘tech’, again in a non-religious way. When some of their ‘tech’ was put on the web, they claimed that publishing the words of their founder was a violation of ‘trade secret’ laws. Is it just me or is the church suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder?

    • EnthralledObserver

      That’d be “Criminal Personality Disorder”!

    • Captain Howdy

      It’s not that complicated.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        I vote for dessert topping. It’s fluffy and full of empty calories. A floor wax serves a purpose.

    • Heroder

      You nailed it! It would be hypocritical, if it wasn’t simply criminal

  • Ivan Mapother

    One of the why answers may be that back in 2008 was the start of the financial meltdown. Unemployment was shooting up and people desperate for jobs took what was available and did what they had to to hang on to those jobs. I’m sure that Dr. Nobbe explained that principle at his prosperity seminar. Chuck Colson, former Nixon Chief of Staff, used to say, “When you have a man by the balls, his head and heart are soon to follow.”

  • Ze Moo

    Tony did a story about a Los Angeles chiropractor named Ryan Lee last week. Ryan made the Chelsey Handler show last night. She showed the youtube video with the punch line, ‘here’s a Asian who can satisfy a woman’. Lee’s OT certs were all over the wall, but Handler did not mention scientology. Too bad there are at least 2 good jokes there.

    Nobbe is in court because he wouldn’t play the game with the EEOC. All you have to do is promise not to do it again and pay the fired employees something. His arrogance (‘confront’) is making him spend thousands of dollars on lawyers and an eventual larger monetary settlement for the fired employees. What a putz….

    • Missionary Kid

      He’ll declare bankruptcy for the businss, IMO.

      • aquaclara

        Maybe. Maybe not. He may not have to pay out all that much in this case, and if you look, he has a very active business going. Two locations, a large staff devoted to selling more services, and the ability to have people bill both Medicaid and insurance if it is in one’s plan. I’ve never seen that many people in a chiro office before. Guessing he also has a stake in the piece of equipment I noted up top. He had his hand slapped by the state in 2002, and that didn’t appear to have much of an impact.

        • John P.

          The key data point that would point to an answer is to find out how many unnamed “class action” plaintiffs there are in the case. There are four named plaintiffs, but the complaint does not indicate the size of the potential class of employees who were similarly treated. If that class is large, it could be bad news for Nobbe. If it’s only a handful more, he could conceivably weather the storm. Undoubtedly, discovery will include an exhaustive search of personnel records to find additional plaintiffs to add to the case.

          Given that this business may be organized as an LP or a Sub-S corporation, and given that dental offices are service businesses that typically aren’t capital-intensive, he probably flows through most of his profits to his personal accounts continuously (before he turns around and gives all of that to the cult). That’s perfectly legal; I’m not implying that taking the profits home is in any way shady since millions of professionals do it that way.

          The point is that without retained earnings in the business to pay a sizable judgment, Nobbe may have to declare the business bankrupt, or potentially backstop the judgment out of personal funds, which may be possible if the government is hunting for money (though an LLC corporate shield may protect him). And of course if he has given all his money to the cult, he won’t have the personal funds to pay the fines.

          Those are fun scenarios to think about but we should stay focused on the biggest variable: the size of the class that the EEOC identifies during discovery. If Tony talks to the attorney in a few months and gets a sense of that, it could help predict the outcome.

          Given that Nobbe has been in the cult for 20+ years, depending on the statute of limitations for bringing actions, it’ll be interesting to see how many names get added to the complaint and how big the fine could be as a result. If Dental Dimwit in Oregon got hit for $350k for a single employee, it could be time for popcorn (though the fine there may have been unusually large because the fired employee had to move across the country to find work after she was wrongly terminated).

          • aquaclara

            I do hope the size of the class and the subsequent judgment are both large and painful.
            Knowing the tactics deployed by the COS, there is a little part of me that worries he’ll dodge this somehow. So I hope that there is protection for the employees who may be undocumented, or who have family members who are.
            While I’ve never heard of a chiro office this large, the good part of that is that there are many employees, and multiplied over 20 years. And it appears all of them were required to take courses.

        • Missionary Kid

          This is, however, the feds.
          I believe he’ll have to pay the employees all the back pay they would have gotten from him from the time he fired them until the time the suit is resolved in court, and the amount will be substantial.

          Am I wrong on that?

          • aquaclara

            Don’t get me wrong… I hope he pays. BIG. He just looks like a man with a steady source of income.

            • Missionary Kid

              If the EEOC actually takes someone to court, it’s gonna HURT. They don’t publicize cases like this unless they have a VERY good case.

              The fines and judgements that are usually handed down are not paltry. They look at the person they’re suing as acting like a slave owner, and they treat them accordingly.

              What other people are saying is that, in essence, he’s drunk so much of the clam juice that he thinks he’s done right, and he doesn’t appear give an inch. The legal fees alone will put a severe strain on his business, and the back pay to the victims will be substantial, then there will be a fine. I think he’s gonna be very lucky if he doesn’t go bankrupt.

              Since he won’t be able to send the same amount of money to ABLE and to Co$, they’ll be regging the hell out of him, and, of course, losing the case will all be his fault.

            • Ze Moo

              EEOCs job is to publicize their actions. Making an example of the wrong doer and education for the general public. The final cost to the defendant is not a consideration.

              The last 15 years or so has seen many doctors getting together and forming medical corporations to operate labs, buy MRI machines and generally invest in medical technology. Then all the doctors send all their blood work and lab business to the lab they set up. This isn’t a problem as long as the businesses they set up have to compete against other similar businesses. It is quite a profit center if not taken to extremes.

              About 7 years ago a generic dental office showed up in Upstate NY (or Southern Canada, if you prefer). It was a large office with 5 or more dentists working there at any one time. It was open until 9pm at night and 6 days a week. I used them once for an emergency and ‘my’ dentist was just out of the air force and he liked not having to buy all the equipment and insurance setting up a new office would entail. He eventually was going set up his own office (and get the tax breaks), but in the meantime, he was making good money at the generic dentist office.

              Nobbe has invested in the equipment needed to run 2 locations and has a number of chiropractors working for him. While some in similar situations go bankrupt in a fit of pique, It should be possible to claw back a couple of million dollars from his operation. Any ‘donations’ or fees paid to WISE can be clawed back from this point forward. Courts won’t stand for hiding assets or running away from a judgement. At the worst, the bankruptcy sale will include Nobbes x ray machines and other implements of destruction. If Nobbe starts taking more money out of the business then usual, he will find himself facing jail time.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for your input.

              Since Nobbe is not operating alone and has a large practice, he may well be able to survive a judgement without bankruptcy. I was kind of basing my opinion on the other (I believe it was a dentist) clam who went bankrupt after dealing with the EEOC.

              Perhaps the large number of claimants, because of the large practice, will also figure in to make severe the economic impact of the business. Won’t they be entitled to all the back pay, plus penalties?

              I think it will be nearly impossible for him to get anything back from WISE, but they will not like having their take reduced.

    • Captain Howdy

      The Nobbes have already given $cientology millions, what’s a few hundred thousand more flushed down the drain of stupidity ?

    • mirele

      The EEOC doesn’t file quixotic lawsuits. They have to show a winning product. Consequently, they only take the best cases. This Know-Be is actually a knob.

    • dbloch7986

      It’s likely that he doesn’t have any money to pay the fired employees because he funnels his earnings directly into Scientology. I have seen people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year forced to live the life of someone who’s making less than half their income (and still barely surviving). Scientology eats away at every bit of income you have.

      The guy is probably going to go bankrupt after losing this lawsuit because the only way he could actually get money is to ask for a refund, and we know that’s not gonna happen.

    • ThetaBara

      Wow. Chelsea is GROSS.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Yes, she is very gross!
        I think she and I could be best friends.

        • http://www.facebook.com/andrewr47 Andrew Robertson

          I wondered briefly if giving you an up-arrow would be considered a compliment or an insult then decided on the former as I like women who eschew the ‘ladylike’ stereotype.

          Andrew

          • BuryTheNuts2

            On yes, that stereotype!
            I eschew it up and spit it out like it was an olive pit.

            Thanks Andrew!

        • ThetaBara

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxEnQZi3Ow

          :-)

          Man, my thumbnails never show up! A little TMBG for your Wednesday night.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          OMG, did you see the episodes with Chelsea and Conan O’Brian or Sandra Bullock in the shower? Woot, those were funny!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuRfOT5PVsI

  • Artoo45

    As a former new age moonbat, I used to visit a chiropractor regularly. Some chiropractors are decent, honest people who want to help people with back pain and have some success in that area. Some are total quacks who believe that all our ills are caused by “subluxations” and charge patients to treat ailments that have nothing to do with their musculoskeletal system. Some may even cause strokes . . .
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/chiropractic-strokes-again-an-update/
    But this Knob sounds like he runs what my old Chiropractor used to call a “bonecracking mill” where he just hurries people through and it’s all about the numbers. How else do you get a practice that generates millions of dollars?

    • Ze Moo

      60 minutes did a good story on chiros a few years ago. Their cut off point for finding the quacks was did the chiro ‘adjust’ infants or toddlers? Americans have their version of chinese herbal therapy and voodoo, it is chiropractors.

      • Artoo45

        True that. At least it only harms humans, as for TCM, seen any black rhinos lately?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1370027711 Fredric L. Rice

    Chiropractic is a fraud, selling quack medical fraud to rubes.

  • Sherbet

    I’m having a busy couple of days here at work, and it’s cutting into my social life in the Bunker. Just saying “Hey!” until I can join the conversation. Over and out; Sherbet has left the building.

    • VickiStubing

      To entertain us while she’s gone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL2GmaI3Xus

      • Captain Howdy

        Poor Kristy. RIP hon.

        • VickiStubing

          Gotta spread the Kristy love. My kids think you are spying on us–we’ve been listening to the Pogues for a couple of weeks and then the other day you linked a vid. I’m impressed by the variety on the Bunker playlist.

          • Captain Howdy

            I’m a HUGE Pogues fan! They are definitely in my all-time Top Ten. You should read Shane’s biography that his girlfriend wrote. It’s a hoot.

  • stateofcircle

    Where has THDNE been?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I don’t know but I am starting to worry….big time!

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        And Midwest Mom. Haven’t seen her for awhile.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yeah, but that was different.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            I know she left for Lent but thought she came back. Did I miss something?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, and I think she is taking another break.
              Small spat.

      • Captain Howdy

        I remember her saying she had some health issues. I hope she’s just on vacation or maybe she got bored with scientology watching for a bit.

        Give us a sign your Holiness

        And Mom we’re getting tired of missing you..give us a break..sheesh

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yeah, what Howdy said people!!!

  • Truthiwant

    Some ‘Newbie’ earlier on posted a comment asking why Scientologists use ashtrays.

    This made me realize that any newcomer to Scientology lurking on the Bunker is going to
    have a difficult time understanding what it really is so I have compiled here a ‘What Is Scientology?’

    Scientology is a tax exempt multi-billion dollar racket that, due to bribery and million
    dollar law suits, passes itself off as a religion.

    It boasts 10,000,000 members world-wide but probably the person that wrote that forgot
    to take his finger off the ‘0’ button.

    The goal of Scientology is to empty the pockets of its parishioners.

    The goal of the parishioner is however to become ‘Clear’ although this is a very vague
    and bewildering concept. The only thing ‘Clear’ in the end is in fact the parishioner’s pockets.

    The technology consists of shouting at ashtrays, gazing in to each other’s eyes for
    days and even weeks and asking one’s fellow parishioner if birds fly.

    Apart from trying to suppress a giggle while staring for hours at a time at another
    Scientologist, there is also another very expensive form of mind warping where the individual
    holds a couple of tin cans and is told that his body is infested with little space gnats.

    On Friday nights the parishioners meet up, clap their hands and cheer ‘Ron’ and then try to escape out a
    side door so as not to come face to face with an IAS member.

    There are no pre-requisites to become a Scientologist although a vague understanding of
    PhotoShop is helpful.

    A billion years is the standard time that one should remain in Scientology although five
    minutes is already way too long.

    I hope this is helpful to all the newcomers here.

    • aquaclara

      enjoying this, Truthi….thanks!

    • ThetaBara

      What’s crazy is that with all their fancy gear, I have never seen an ashtray with a scilon logo on it. And I want one really badly!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I heard they were giving those out at the first Underground Bunker Conference.

      • stateofcircle

        YESSSSS I want one

  • Observer

    ..

    • Captain Howdy

      HaHaHa

      I googled “crazy toolkit” earlier trying to find a picture I could hopefully get you to shoop.

    • VickiStubing

      Have you taken a tour of the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices at the Science Museum of Minnesota? Great fun! I really, truly expected to see an e-Meter on display. Gotta tell ya, my kids are sure that it stands for empty-your-wallet meter.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Gee, wonder where they got that idea Vicki?
        hehehe

      • Observer

        Alas, no. If I ever get back there it will definitely be on my list of things to do!

    • Truthiwant

      Love it!!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      There’s a joke here…?

      • Observer

        No, I’m afraid it’s all true.

    • Bella Legosi

      Observer, should I ever win the lottery, I am going to buy up a printing house and I would love to hire you in creating flyers just like this to insert into every Oregonian, WW, Portland Mercury, and Portland Tribune! lol That is if you can work for this Castianity believing, crazy cat lady in training! But the job is soooooo yours should I do it!

      • Observer

        Done!

        • Bella Legosi

          >D

          Sweeeeet

  • Phil McKraken

    Here’s what I think when I look at that picture of the Good Doctor of Chiropractic holding his big craptificate: Big Trousers, Big Being.

  • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora
    • Captain Howdy

      I know someone around here that suffers from Avatar Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder who should definitely take a gander at the Katie squirrel photo.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        already saved it

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I made it so!
        Annie Broker was making me sad!

        • Captain Howdy

          Excellent. it’s definitely “you”

        • sugarplumfairy

          Love it !!!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Thank ya’ll!

            For some reason, I can really relate to a manic Katie Holmes fucking with a squirrel.

            I am not going to try to analyze this too much or too deeply.

    • Observer

      She looks light years saner than her ex in that pic.

      • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

        wait till the squirrel busters try to put HER on a t-shirt.

    • Missionary Kid

      THAT’S why she left TC. She got involved with squirrels!

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

    That picture, the smug, it BURNS…

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Yeah, Ya know, he isn’t exactly ugly…but…but…you just want to punch him.

      • FistOfXenu

        “isn’t exactly ugly” You mean he can’t even get that right?

      • FistOfXenu

        I went back and looked at his face again, and – DAMN! – all of a sudden I wondered if I remembered to get my shovel back from my neighbor last fall.

  • sizzle8

    There is a strict policy about forcing someone to do Scientology “against own determinism”. But the second that money is involved, it gets dropped like a hot potato.

  • dbloch7986

    You would think that Scientology could afford a better photographer. They seriously chose the worst photos possible for those promotional pieces. That “Personal Prosperity Seminar” image looks like a mug shot for someone who was just arrested for being drunk and committing lewd acts in view of the public.

    Sounds like this poor lady was fired based on the policy of disconnection. I bet that Skipper had an accident/illness and scapegoated her based on the fact that she refused Scientology.

    “We’re learning that Nobbe was a particularly fanatical WISE guy.” – Very punny Tony.

  • aquaclara

    Found this little gem from the Dynamic Medical website….
    “Many experts believe that the wide spectrum of artificial man-made EMF radiation masks the natural
    beneficial frequency of the Earth. Electro pollution may cause us to feel more stressed, fatigued and “out of balance.” While no process or modality can guarantee the prevention of these conditions, it is logical to
    assume that an ongoing detoxification program – the act of minimizing toxic accumulations in the body – will reduce the incidence of chronic degenerative disease and improve overall quality of life. In order to maintain a
    productive life, detoxification is a necessity.

    Now there is a method to help cleanse these harmful toxins from the inside of your body; it’s called the EB Cellular Cleanse Therapy.”

    EB-Pro™ Energy Balancing System

    • BuryTheNuts2

      FFS!!

    • Phil McKraken

      It is logical to assume that anything following the phrase “it is logical to assume” is going to be pure nonsense gibberish (except in the case of this sentence I am writing right now).

      • richelieu jr

        Now Phil, I think you know you’re being a bit harsh! In fact, it is logical to presume the raspberry freepatch geverblesnap, upstat outethics the hole does not exist van allen belt has snapped and that’s gonna cost you cah or credit?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

        Even in your post, following “it is logical to assume” a few words later I find “pure nonsense gibberish”

    • BuryTheNuts2

      So are you supposed to get inside it like a sauna?
      Or swallow it like niacin?

      • aquaclara

        Funny. The pic on the website just showed the “results” of someone who soaked their feet in it, with the “after” picture described as something almost like this: “Look at all that crap that came out of her body” .
        If you can’t sell someone a full sauna, why not invent a mini-one that you can sell to everybody?!
        Of course, I don’t know who holds the licensing for this.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          WAIT!!
          WTF!!!
          No way?
          This is a Scion foot e-bath?

          It sucks your body thetans out your ‘soles’…or should I say souls….

        • richelieu jr

          Wait a minute- Crap comes out of bodies?

          That explains so much! (I have to apologize to my baby!)

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Is he starting school yet?

            • richelieu jr

              Nope, but he’s got a nanny…

    • John P.

      This has all the markers of classic quackery. #1 on the list is selling expensive equipment or services to “cleanse the toxins” from the body. The small problem is that toxins are highly reactive — that is what makes them so bad for you. Carbon monoxide is a toxin because it is more reactive in binding to a hemoglobin molecule than oxygen, crowding out the oxygen you need and suffocating you. It’s the same as Hubbard’s nonsense about “drug residues.” Drugs work because they are highly reactive with your body chemistry, but that means they also are metabolized faster than other bits of your body chemistry, and they are completely eliminated in a highly predictable time frame. For toxins to remain in your body that would need cleansing, they would have to be far less reactive, which is exactly the opposite of the inherent nature of a toxin.

      A very small number of toxins do remain in the body because they are chemically inert but radioactive; radon (which is somewhat common) and plutonium (which thankfully is not) come to mind. But those examples are not sufficient to prove the quack’s “toxin” nonsense used to scare people into bogus treatments.

      A very good blog to help pierce through quackery and bad science is “Respectful Insolence,” available at: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/ It is written by a researcher in surgery. I rather like his bombastic tone and the science is top-notch as well.

    • Heroder

      Makes perfect sense compared to an e-meter. No body thetans needed!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Does Mr. Chill EB have something to do with this?

  • aquaclara

    Noticing that our down-arrow visitor comes along every Tuesday and Wednesday. I am hoping one day, those arrows will turn upside down.
    It’s ok to doubt.
    Mathematically, it will take thousands of years to clear a simple zip code.
    You are not responsible for freeloader debt, despite what you may be told.
    It’s ok to leave. Life is great on the outside.
    Sorry, but LRH borrowed or made up stuff. It’s not real.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      DownArrowBoy, please stop for a moment and read some of the words here. If you are not too afraid, talk to us. You can’t possibly be happy. Look at how you are spending your time. Break free! Did you have to disconnect from any friends or family? Are you being paid a living wage if you are SO, or are you able to accumulate savings for your retirement? How are your relationships working out–heartfelt, meaningful and satisfying? No, you did not “pull in” all of the bad things that happened in your life. But, you can take hold and forge a course of action that will allow you to speak your heart, accumulate some savings, and have unfiltered, joyous conversations with all kinds of people. Step out from behind that monitor!

      • Captain Howdy

        Actually, downer is reading the comments because the comments that didn’t make any sort of reference to the cult, didn’t get a down vote.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

          I got a Triple Down once for a snark comment, on JohnP’s running gag about how Canada is a part of upstate New York. (on the other hand my only other Triple Down was for a post on the timing of Brian Culkin’s treachery)

          • Captain Howdy

            Downer has marked down non-scn related comments before, but today, there’s definitely a pattern.

            • q-bird

              Good. How can one not enjoy the commentary here?! Agree or disagree, with words or arrows, fine as kind, but love the ability to reason and discuss.

            • Observer

              And that’s one thing the “church” will never allow, no matter how faithful and dedicated the members are.

            • Bella Legosi

              Hard to discuss when the Downvoters very own hands and mind are basically arrested!

              >(

              But doesn’t scientology teach to only attack? Never defend your beliefs cuz attacking is soooooo much more effective and efficient. So apparently this downvoter has been taught that not only are their beliefs not worthy of a reasonable defense with words, but that the best way to make us all reflect on the disrespect we show Hubbard and scientology is best done thru click after click. I think I smell DM stink on this logic! Straight down and vertical……..just like the reading scores of children taught to read according to how Hubbard’s tech teaches. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe they can only read competently in Hubbardian Sci-Double-Speak, to read wog words sends them back on some sort of TC track of dyslexia.

              There just has to be a reason this person will not use their communication skills they paid for!

            • Captain Howdy

              If it’s Marco doing the down voting, that would explain the lack of communication skills thing.

            • ThetaBara

              I’d like to see a clay demo of downvoting!

            • Bella Legosi

              It would prolly look like something Yoko Ono would endorse I am sure.

            • ThetaBara

              I’m imagining a little “Wallace and Gromit” looking guy, but styled after, oh, say, Allender, in front of a clay computer, pounding the keyboard, with steam coming out of his ears.
              Or maybe Gwen “Prunes” Barnard would be a good model.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am pretty sure I would have been kicked off course during clay demo’s for making everything a penis.

            • Bella Legosi

              No Popsicle for you!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              HA! Calling me BAD? Pot, meet Kettle. ;-)

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          You could be right. I suspect DownArrowBoy scans for key words. But, just maybe something will penetrate… maybe he or she will linger over a sentence or two. Day after day, there he/she is perusing all of this entheta. I like reading the stories from the ex’s on how those little nagging doubts turned into full-fledged realizations. Sometimes it was born from a protesters sign, sometimes from an email a la Debbie Cook, sometimes it was just one reg too many. Like with ToryMagoo–it was a simple communication from someone on an anti-scion board. And, I suspect that Tony’s articles might have nudged a few!

        • richelieu jr

          I suspect skimming for buzzwords may be closer to the truth…

          • Observer

            I just got my first down arrow ever (that I can recall) on a shoop. DA may be looking a little closer now.

          • Bella Legosi

            So they know the CTR+F trick? I just tried it and it sorta worked. How fucking lazy! It really doesn’t take me long to read comments! Maybe Downvote Dave or Downvote Denise is utilizing that great shortcut thinking, so enthusiastically implanted into the minds of Clams?

            *edit
            By choosing to downvote this comment you are in essence PROVING my comment. Freeloader debt is not binding.
            Hubbard used eyeglasses and pharmaceutical drugs towards the end of his life.
            You are human and should be considered such. Your lower condition IS NOT YOU!!!
            People on the outside do not live in chaos!
            Rice and beans are fed to slaves, YOU ARE NOBODY’S SLAVE

      • ThetaBara
  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Off topic: Looks like NarCONon is focusing their Big Top tent on Italian speaking kids these days. With the Viet Nam thing, concentration in Mexico, and some of their other activities abroad, they are clearly taking those marbles elsewhere. Yeah, I suppose deaths, raids, and law suits in the US will do that.
    Clark Carr is still shoveling the shit here:
    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10743199.htm
    Wish we could pierce the heart of this hydra.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bumpas Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

    Yet another lawsuit to keep an eye on! I will be watching closely and hopefully things will start heading in the right direction!

  • gato rojo

    “As a Scientologist you have to do that kind of shit. You have to force people in, whether they want to or not.” Yes, as a member of the warped and mislead church of Scientology under David Miscavige, that is very true. However independent Scientologists still get whatever training or auditing they want but do NOT have to endure all that crap.

    The people who had the sense to leave the prison-like structure of the “church” and just carry on with what they wanted to do in Scientology independently don’t do that. That’s why they left–all the forcing, trickery, coersion, for nothing gained for themselves. For $250,000 this Nobbe guy gets his name on a list and photos taken. Marvelous! No auditing or training or services of any sort! And he gets gestapo’d to make more people participate.
    If you just want to get some simple, effective auditing or training that works and get left alone afterwards find an independent practitioner. Ahhhh….freedom.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      We here in bunker land don’t all tend to roll that way red kitty!
      Some of us think all of it is bullshit.

      • Sidney18511

        What Bury said!

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

        It is sometimes a necessary subway platform stop on the underground railroad to recovery. Some hang around for a while, hitting up passers-by for spare change. Most get on the train out eventually.

        • Ms. B. Haven

          Well said MLT. No harm in hanging out at the subway platform for as long as one likes. It beats the shit out of where one was coming from and almost all tracks lead to better destinations. Best of luck red feline. Hope you hang around and continue posting at the Bunker.

      • Heroder

        This may be true, but if the Church collapses, the human right abuses stop. At that point, no one will care if the independents have their mickey mouse club.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Let’s not run red kitty off–she made the first step of leaving Co$. I suspect it is a slow road. Perhaps she will keep reading here.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I wasn’t planning on running anyone off.. I just said we all don’t roll that way.

          Two words: Steve Hall!

      • gato rojo

        Oh yes, couldn’t help but notice. Meee-ow!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I will still share my cat food….and it contains no beans or rice!

        • q-bird

          ah sweetie good on you – jump right on in – make a comment – speak your mind – FREEDOM yes! – and then see what happens! It is so cool. You are listened to here – you have your voice – here. Others in-the-know will respond… it is always illuminating. You keep reading & thinking about things (I do the same) and we help each other figure it all on out… where’s the truth, where are the lies, what do we know for sure so far? Hey red kitty, have you read any of the books that are out on the person LRH, his history as seen thru the eyes of the world? It is very different from how those who read, study & use his words, see him. We all have our story ~ I wonder what yours is. And so we walk together for a time here on Tony’s blog.

          btw, my friend BTN2 (among others as well) is quick-witted & devastatingly funny – a snark queen, i love her.
          before coming to this blog, I didn’t even know what snark was!

          gato rojo – good to see you here – dig in kitty!

          • gato rojo

            Thanks for the…uh..invite,(?) but no matter what my story is, it isn’t going to get listened to. I’ve made a few comments here and each time, inucluding this one, I got something snippy or “I know better than you.” Even if I’ve had first hand experience. Hmmmm. The description of “the truth” in that image is very strange. If someone sees it, and it really happened, and it thus becomes his story, It’s instantly 90 degrees away from the truth?

            There’s a lot to snark at, no argument there..things that really are intentionally twisted lies throughout the history of Scientology. There are also some things that don’t warrant that, but with the prevalent attitude here you don’t even try to diffentiate. Soooooo, I’m gone, no loss to you guys at all.

            • q-bird

              hello again gato rojo. Thank you for your reply. It is difficult to communicate effectively in a forum such as this, is it not? We don’t know each other at all and we have not the luxury of facial expression or voice inflection or body language to use while we chat; we only have at our disposal black & white words and perhaps an image or two to use while we talk. Misunderstandings are bound to occur. My ‘invite’ to you was merely a shout out Red Kitty, a way of letting you know that someone entirely objective here as a never-in, heard what you said. You have knowledge to share – it is always entirely up to you as to how you chose to share it. Snippy comments rule here, they do – it seems to come with the territory on a blog critical of hubbard’s scientology. This will always strike a person who wants to follow LRH’s thought system, his doctrines & policies, as offensive… naturally. There are no regular commentators, especially the ex-scientologists here, who want this in their life. Of course, what they know to be the truth is based on their first hand experiences. I have come to trust them and their POV. There are other sites, I’m thinking of Marty’s & now Mike’s blogs, where I believe you and your story (your 1st hand knowledge) would perhaps be better received & understood. That’s assuming of course that you actually need or want to tell a story to anyone. It sounds as though you are quite fed up with DM’s way of doing things – you are out of the corporate ‘church’ & into freedom of choice and you look forward to the freedom to practice your faith as you wish outside of COS. Yes? Fine as kind – you will do as you will of course… you, as am I, are all grown up, we can do want we want right?! without fear of OSA-like reprisal right?

              I apologize for the confusing image – it has not so much to do with you personally at all. It has to do with arrows only. Up & Down Arrows. They are the only options Disqus provides. The arrows in this image go other directions, is all I was ‘implying’. You have your story, I have mine, the Truth lies somewhere in there, between us, within us. The Truth is not at all necessarily 90 degrees from either of our stories.

              I respectfully disagree that ‘us guys’ do not differentiate between what is ‘good’ about what LRH has written or said & how it has become more twisted through the leadership of DM.
              Quite to the contrary – it is discussed every single day. For instance here is an interesting link that was posted on a thread just today:

              http://www.paulsrabbit.com/LHBvol1a.pdf

              Gato Rojo – again – thank you for your words and I hope for you that whatever it is you need you will find it.
              Peace of Mind & some Joy in this Life just simply MUST be a possibility, yes?! I wish for you good things.

              Kind Regards,
              q-bird

        • ThetaBara

          Welcome, gato rojo!

      • George Layton

        I’m going to the lake tomorrow for some auditing, but it will have to be one handed auditing because I’m not a two fisted drinker.

        • aquaclara

          What are you auditing at the lake this weekend, George? PBR, Bud Lite, Coors Light or imported? True story: In high school, friends used to arrange trips to Georgia (from Florida) to buy Coors. It was considered an import.

          • Captain Howdy

            I wouldn’t walk across the street for a can of Coors..even if it was free!

          • George Layton

            It’s gonna have to be Bud Lite, the dogs are in a hurry to go so I don’t have time to import any Coors.

          • Bella Legosi

            We here in the NW are uber proud of Olympia piss vasser and Hamm’s bear flavored piss vasser! And for some strange reason, even though Windmer is MADE IN PORTLAND……they charge you in bars as if it was IMPORT!!!!

            And that is why Bella only buys beer from her friendly and overly attractive Jordanian at her local corner market! It is priced just right, a cute man takes her money, and he lets her talk/pet his Store Cat as much as she wants!

            • dagobarbz

              They haven’t made Olympia beer since the late 80s. It was the water. And we peed in it upstream.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert
            • Bella Legosi

              I fucking knew it!

              They have released Olympia for public consumption again for some annerversary. Next time I see it at my store I shall take a picture. I was surprised to find it. Was like I was back in some garage in the 80’s, girly posters, and pictures of Spuds McKenzie……

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Sounds like you’re feeling all better….or the meds made you hot for some “store cat” petting. ;-P

            • Bella Legosi

              :)

              If I could get away with petting the Hottie at the store I would. But he is just too damn sweet and sorta religious! Besides that would just make for an awkward moment! But yea feeling better!

          • FistOfXenu

            Give Guinness a try at least. It’s got real taste and you’ll know you’re drinking something.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Guinness! Sounds yummy!

            • FistOfXenu

              Especially when you stack a shot of Jameson Irish Whiskey next to each glass of Guinness. It’s a highway to high.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Consider me a hitch-hiker!!!

            • FistOfXenu

              Hop in. :)

            • aquaclara

              That sounds like an Irish version of a boilermaker.

            • FistOfXenu

              It’s a boilermaker for sure. I can’t say if it’s an Irish version or just a boilermaker made with Irish booze. But I can say try it you’ll like it.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Welcome home! Kick off the shoes and stay a while. It’s great fun here.

  • richelieu jr

    His name really suits him. his first name should be Richard.

  • Ian

    “Nobbe — pronounced KNOW-bee”

    And Bucket is pronounced “Boo-kay”

    • Espiando

      That reminds me, Knob-head does bear a bit of a resemblance to Onslow. I’d remark further, but that would be insulting the late, great Geoffrey Hughes, not to mention millions of working-class British slobs.

      • TheLurkingHorror

        Oh man, I didn’t know Onslow died. Still, he’s way better looking than Mr. Nobbe, imho. ;)

  • richelieu jr

    Wait a minute- Isn’t “Nobbe” that little elf fellow who rides around in the toy car in the kids shows?

    The one we call ‘Oui-Oui’ in France? I knew he was up to no good!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqUzeoYTDFE

    • richelieu jr

      Please note, these subtitles are horrible!

    • media_lush

      You’re thinking of Noddy (And Big Ears)

      • richelieu jr

        Ah, yes! Noddy!

  • http://www.facebook.com/marc.headley Marc Headley

    When will the scilons ever learn? You have to do the cooking by the book…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp5l4-sfFA

    • John P.

      Unfortunately, their cuisine experiments always end up like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDvTnTGjgQ

      • Ze Moo

        The swedish chef and Beeker are my favorite muppets.

    • aquaclara

      omg, this is one funny video.

    • Captain Howdy

      Oh my Xenu! What are they doing to the “You Are a Pirate” girl? That ain’t right!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      WHAT? OKAAAYYY! YEAH! Now I’m gonna have to rewatch the Dave Chappell versions of Lil Jon.

  • Peter Robinson

    Chiropracty is BOGUS (see Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst). Scifiology is BOGUS. A match made in heaven (which is also bogus).

  • richelieu jr

    You know, I used to think L Ron Hubbard was a deceitful, disgusting, duck-billed huckster and his deformed brain-child, Scientology (the surviving half of the twins– Dianetics died deservedly young) was nothing but a virus infecting the body politic and the world disguised as a religion powered by the broken dreams, shattered families and ruined lives and fortunes of well-meaning fools—

    I was even known to mock it upon occasion.. But now…now (bear with me, this is difficult for me to get out)..

    Now that I see someone is occasionally down-voting out posts I realize that not everyone agrees with me and I have been a fool. I feel shattered by the brave confront of this courageous, not at all cowardly individual, who knows better than to engage with arguments and Entheta, but to click quickly away, down-voting out silly engagements with reality…

    Please write me, invisible crusader. L Ron would be s proud of you. am sure DM will stop telling you you SCOHB and may even give you a reach)-around next time he is penetrating you with his firm, commanding mastery of ‘Tech’…

    Write me. I have selfishly been saving my life-savings for my family and to buy a house, but now I see it would be better served by giving you upstats for a week and the right not to feel so gully for occasionally pleasuring yourself in your dorm room whilst your other gold-braided brothers dream sweet dreams of the hot night-life in the Van Allen belt, and below that, dear Ron, bursting like a Xenu-packed volcano…. (!)

    Come, conquering hero… You brave, brave soul. You ahve shown me the light.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      How brave, indeed, to confront the truth and give in to its inexorable pull. As a great humanitarian once said, “When in doubt, talk. When in doubt, communicate.” Words of wisdom from… L. Ron Hubbard. The Phoenix Lectures. (Do you see what I did there?)

      And what better way to communicate with those in doubt than to mindlessly down vote comments with drone-like proficiency. It is just that perfect. A big, big win.

      • richelieu jr

        Just for that 3D, I shall down-vote you myself! The highest honor I know of for such top-grade entheta!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I am… humbled.

          • richelieu jr

            As well you should be!

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      So he clicks with one hand, and does what with the other?

  • Starman8

    First off, I am in no way defending Dennis Nobbe. I’ve known the guy. I remarked on Mike Rinder’s blog last week. I think he brought this upon himself because of arrogance etc.

    That said I’m a healthcare professional and I’ve been through much the same stuff. The exception is I knew where to draw the line. Yes I’ve done all the same Scientology stuff as Nobbe and more. Yes I donated a lot until I saw the light. I was a Miami public and have had first hand experience with Nobbe, WISE and the whole environment.

    Contrary to what some say, I don’t see real pressure to do anything with your staff etc. Of course my experience may be different. Yes training is encouraged, especially in the business related areas, and especially for the healthcare professional who’s running a business. And yes Scientology is very much part of the picture.

    But if you have any personal integrity and can stand on your own two feet, you DON’T have to do anything someone else tells you to do. I knew 20+ years ago that forcing any of this on staff would be ripe for trouble. I watched out for that unlike what I hear Nobbe did. I limited myself to the Hubbard admin policy that made sense for me in my practice. I drew the line between church and business. I was way up there too, but I drew the line. Nobbe on the other hand has the “know best” attitude come what may and now we are seeing the result.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      That’s why you left and are doing well, and he is going to find himself out many hundreds of thousands of dollars, at least, and a public laughing stock.

    • Patti Thompson

      You didn’t marry Chris, either. But of course you are right. His personality has as much to do with it as anything else. I think he really likes being a whale.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Weird. Was having issues with Disqus not showing text in safari. Then tried firefox and it was demanding a Disqus password, not the usual facebook login. Switched to firefox and 5 month old replies show up in “My Disqus”. Weird Disqus is weird.

    • FistOfXenu

      You’ll get used to it. The behavior of Disqus here ranges from disqus-ting to disq-onnecting.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    The EEOC attorney is right, with the facts of this case, it is inexplicable as to why Dr. Nobbe didn’t work out a settlement plan. That attorney, however, doesn’t understand the cult mentality. Dr. Nobbe’s face while receiving his award says it all: “I am great, I am great, I am great …..” The cult plays on that fanatical ego. Nobbe could never admit he was wrong, especially about his business and the church. The cult will milk that for $$$$. They will get him a church lawyer, and demand $$$$ from him and others to battle back the “enemy” EEOC. Nobbe will scream at his lawyer, and threaten him/her if the lawyer suggests settling. He may even fire one or two lawyers before the case is finished.

    Dr. Nobbe will preen and scream his way through depositions, and the trial. If the case goes to the jury, he will lose, partly because the jury will hate him. If the trial involves testimony critical of the church, Dr. Nobbe may experience Miscavige screams and threats. At the end of the day, Nobbe will lose gobs of money (even if he settles), and his business reputation. How many Cubans, Jehova Witnesses, or newspaper readers will go to his clinic after this? Who knows, he also may find himself “declared” if his case embarrasses Miscavige (more than it has already), and if he runs of money.

    • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

      i still feel sorry for these people, our own vance woodward fell for all of this, and they got loads of money from him. it’s love bombing (who does want big love?)combined with hypnotism and big sales technique.
      yeah, maybe they scam some huge ego’s, but in many cases it is just good people who want the world to be a better place and got scooped up.
      this is the ground zero evil of this cult.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ToryMagoo44 Tory Christman

        And ALL Cults, Victoria. I just spent one hour w/ a Mother who was devastated by the loss of her daughter who joined a Christian Cult and has now not only disconnected from her, but is suing her for some form of harassment, when she just went to try to talk with her. ARGH____please keep spreading the word. Thank you, Tony O and ALL here! Tory/Magoo~ Cult Survivor :)

        • Gabbyone

          Tory is right. My friend has lost her college aged son to a Christian cult. This child had the most loving family and every opportunity that a child could have. A girl and her family used a “flirt to convert” type program similar to what my celebrity scio dentist used in his offices (aka love bombing). They convinced him that his family and friends did not care about him which couldn’t be further from the truth. He quit school, married the Christian girl, and shunned every one of his friends and relatives. The plan that they used was intricate and nothing short of terrifyingly psychopathic like the one that I experienced in the celebrity dental office. The thing that makes my head spin is how adept they are at making the victim look like the perpetrator–what they do is nothing short of terrifying, and leaves one with yet another level of victimization. These dentists won’t hesitate to lie under oath, change records, or photoshop xrays while maintaining that they are humanitarians and “highly ethical”. I will grieve every day of my life for what the world has become.
          Thank you Tory for being there for that Mother, and thank you especially for bringing awareness to how quickly anyone’s life can change tragically overnight just ’cause they didn’t know and it is too late for a “do over”. Well I know now, and I believe that because our world has become such a hideously dangerous place that a course in undue influence, critical thinking, and psychopathic narcissism should become a mandatory part of our school curriculum.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I can sympathize with your comment, but to my knowledge Vance didn’t strong arm employees, and leave people without a job if they wouldn’t be bullied into joining the church. If Wise advises its business members to treat their employees this way, it is beyond a sham. Nobbe runs a successful business, he is educated, he probably belongs to the local chamber of commerce, he pays his taxes, and he probably knows how to help his patients. Yet, he seems to have become brain dead when it comes to the rights of his employees. By insisting they attend his church, and making it a condition of employment, he was denying them their right to choose their own religion. We fought a revolution against that. I can understand if he made a mistake, but he was given an opportunity to rectify the situation and he said no. He thinks he can convince a jury that a large chunk of Hubbard’s writings and teachings are “secular.” Good luck with that. I agree that many good people joined the church to make the world a better place, and many stay because of disconnection or a refusal to believe the church is bad. This guy, however, rammed the church down his employees’ throats while insulting them, then fired them if they pushed back against his bullying. He probably knew that “at will” employees can be fired for cause or no cause, but he was too arrogant to learn that even “at will” employees cannot be fired because they asserted their right to choose their own religion. If he has been used by the church, they deserve each other.

    • Patti Thompson

      Yes. This is entirely possible.

  • Mother Teegeeack

    Chiropractic and Scientology are simpatico, so it’s no surprise that WISE has found its most fertile feeding ground with these quacks.

    Both groups offer very dubious benefit, though I will concede that Scientology’s duplicitousness, danger to its adherents, and general worthlessness are in a league of their own.

    To further explore this parallel, consider the American Medical Association’s House of Delegate’s statement on Chiropractic- “It is the opinion of the medical profession that chiropractic is an unscientific cult whose practitioners lack the necessary training and background to diagnose and treat human disease. Chiropractic constitutes a hazard to rational health care in the United States because of its substandard and unscientific education of its practitioners and their rigid adherence to an irrational, unscientific approach to disease
    causation.” While the AMA has mollified its stance somewhat in recent decades, the Delegate’s use of the word “cult” in this statement is indicative.

    When considering the Scientology scourge and discussing its outrages, I hope we keep in mind one of its collateral damage victims – the U.S. taxpayer and his or her already shaky fiscal house. Scientology doesn’t just harm the marks who fall for it – tens of millions of dollars are lost annually as their Idle Morgues and other properties pay little to no property tax because of their bullshit religious tax exemption. A further tens of millions of tax revenue are lost each year when the marks claim Schedule A deductions on their personal
    tax returns for their bullshit religious donations and cruises on the asbestos-laden Fleawinds.

    In the health care arena, both groups soak the taxpayer – Scientology “offloads” its elderly and ill staff and Sea Org onto the states’ Medicaid systems, and Chiropractic, particularly high volume clinics like Nobbe’s,
    invoice a disproportionately high percentage of claims to the same.

  • Pinkhammer

    I am perfectly happy with my dentist, but I think I should consider changing to this place just on principal…

  • Patti Thompson

    Thanks Tony. It was fun chatting with you guys.

    • aquaclara

      Thank you for your comments today, Patti. It is so good to hear this stuff first-hand. Come back and chime in often! We’re here every day, thanks to Tony.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I am KRing Disqus!
    POS!!!

    • George Layton

      OMG Bury is hanging with squirrels now!
      Edit: just teasing Bury not the squirrels.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Nuts to you George!
        ;D

  • Jimmy B

    Off topic- LRH stupidity lives on in Will Smith’s parenting:

    “We respect our children the way we would respect any other person. Things like cleaning up their room. You would never tell a full-grown adult to clean their room, so we don’t tell our kids to clean their rooms.”

    Instead, the parents frame the chore to their children in a different way. “We tell our kids ‘you don’t have a room, that’s our room and we are letting you borrow it,'” he explains. “So the same way you would say to an adult if you let them use your car, you say, ‘Yo man, clean my car!”

    http://t.entertainment.msn.com/will-smith-explains-his-parenting-style
    He’s smart enough not to admit being a scientologist, but dumb enough to follow LRH

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      How to make your kid feel like a stranger in his own home, “Yo adult pretending to be a kid, you don’t have a room, or clothes, or books, or anything, it is all OURS. You live here because we let you, I don’t care that you are five years old, cut that baby crap out, you owe us big time. When you turn 12, you will have a freeloader debt you have to pay us, unless you go out to work in movies or music. Hey, pretend kid, you can get your own house then, after you pay your freeloader debt. F*** education, you need to make money, you freeloader.”

    • 1subgenius

      I do believe Will and Jada will find out soon, through their darling son, how ineffective LRH tech is.

  • noseinabk

    Did any of you see the link on Tonys twitter? Using scientology to get Sober.
    Funny stuff.
    (tablet wont let me post the link)

    • BuryTheNuts2

      That is a winner, and a keeper!

      • noseinabk

        And we now know how to handle ourselves when the bunker party gets carried away!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Look at that wall. ( hiccup)

          Thank you.

          Of course usually I just pass out.

        • John P.

          Unbeknownst to you as you wrote that (9:28 pm ET last night, May 22), an epic Underground Bunker party was going on in real life — Tony’s 50th Birthday dinner. Check out my comment on Tony’s May 23 story for details of the festivities — the details I can remember and/or can admit to without embarrassment, anyway!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

    He must have changed his name from the original Dennis Nobbe-Endd

  • The Dakini

    “Scientologists don’t think with the same toolkit.” = Classic

    • Patti Thompson

      Thanks

  • Ian

    Come to the Personal Prosperity Seminar and learn how to increase the size of your stack of novelty plastic gold coins.

    • 1subgenius

      Incredibly funny. I shall be chuckling for quite a while.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Me too. :)

    • 1subgenius

      I see what you did there.

  • 1subgenius

    They must have used the special Miscavige lens, because in the shot where he’s holding the plaque he appears to be the most strangely proportioned human I’ve ever seen.

  • Dr. Allen Conrad,

    Chiropractic care is very effective in helping people with back pain
    http://www.montcochiro.com
    http://www.montcochiro.blogspot.com