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Scientology Response to Federal Lawsuit: Force The Garcias to Use Church Arbitration

ScientologyEthicsWe’ve just got our hands on the Church of Scientology’s response to the federal fraud lawsuit filed by Luis and Rocio Garcia.

As we expected, Scientology is asking federal judge James Whittemore to compel the Garcias to accept Scientology’s own internal arbitration system to resolve this dispute, and throw it out of federal court.

As in previous cases, Scientology will be trying to convince Whittemore that the Garcias signed various agreements that they would resolve matters through Scentology’s own “ethics” system. And any attempt for a civil court to intervene would be a violation of the church’s First Amendment rights. After the jump, we have the 25-page document.

We’re looking forward to analysis by our excellent commenting community, several of whom are attorneys.

One early observation: Judge Whittemore was pretty adamant about Scientology keeping its response to 25 pages, including signature page. (The church had requested permission to file a 45-page brief and the judge denied it.)

But with exhibits, the church just filed a brief of about 350 PAGES. (In fact, we’re debating whether to upload them all here. They’re repetitive and may suck up a lot of bandwidth — and you know the state of our server.)

We would have to guess that Whittemore is going to ignore the exhibits.

Here’s the 25-page response…

Cos Motion to Compel (Response to Garcia) by

 
Exhibit 1: Declaration of Peter Mansell

Mansell Declaration (Garcia Fed Lawsuit) by Tony Ortega

&nbsp:
Exhibit 2 (Part 1): Declaration of Anne Cox

Cox Declaration (Scientology Ex 2) by

 
Exhibit 3: Declaration of Kenneth Weber

Weber Declaration (Scientology Ex 3) by

 
Exhibit 4: Declaration of Monique Yingling

Yingling Declaration (Scientology Ex 4) by

 
Exhibit 5: Declaration of Kenneth Long

Long Declaration (Scientology Ex 5) by

(Exhibit 6 is a copy of the Garcias’ lawsuit that they filed in state court before they dismissed it in favor of their federal fraud lawsuit.)

 
——————

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 6, 2013 at 16:00

 

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  • Ze Moo

    In Las Vegas, the house always gets its cut, in scientology, it arbitration never pays off an ex member. The abuses of scieno refunds have been documented. I hope the Garcias are ready to answer this line of BS.

    • http://www.facebook.com/mila.minderbinder Mila Minderbinder

      I hope the judge will ask for the results of the past arbitrations and in how many cases, statistically, the arbitrators decided in favor of the plaintiffs. Actually, screw that……all that the judge needs to know is that Scientologists in good standing are forbidden from deciding in favor of SPs.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bumpas Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

        That was my thought exactly. The judge should look at past arbitrations to see that no one ever gets a refund, which is why so many former members seek help through the justice system.

        • http://www.facebook.com/mila.minderbinder Mila Minderbinder

          Frankly, I’m not even sure the judge needs to see former arbitration cases. In this very submission the Church of Scientology already argues that pretty much everything that the Garcias gave, whether contributions towards the Super Power Building or money for future courses is not refundable because they are “donations.”

      • Ze Moo

        Mark and Claire Hedley were screwed by ‘religious exemption’ to employment laws. This is a different test of law. The difference between ‘monies on account’ for courses and straight donations for promised things like the Stupor Powerz building call for a real legal decision. Courts have been loth to interfere in religious matters, perhaps the courts can be educated in the ‘business’ of CO$. Given recent public demonstrations of what being a ‘suppressive’ means to the CO$, I think the Garcias have a hope of judicial review. If the court should find that the refund procedures the CO$ uses violates the 1993 IRS agreement, the house of cards could collapse. Expect a quick settlement if the court really looks at procedures and past arbitration decisions. The fraud the Garcias allege does call for a judicial decision, I hope they get it.

    • 1subgenius

      I believe they have given some refunds so that would blunt that argument, and I’m not sure that’s a dispositive issue.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mila.minderbinder Mila Minderbinder

    I’m not a lawyer, but isn’t it a bit of a catch-22 to ask Garcias to submit themselves to the Scientology arbitration, where the arbitrators are three Scientologists in good standing? I am guessing that by now Garcias have been declared suppressive persons and thus as per Scientology’s own doctrine, the Garcias are subject to the fair game policy because they are trying to harm the church. Wouldn’t every Scientologist in good standing have the obligation towards the Church of Scientology to screw Garcias over? I hope that Garcia’s lawyers have the right to file a response showing how the “Scientology religion” arbitration can never be meaningful when a “supressive person” is the plaintiff.

  • D.Geiger

    Why does the cult I mean the church oh I MEAN the U.S.COURT’S just look to the facts.The guy that could have been the next pope and wants to be the next leader of scientology.Is his child like [as well as size like] additude not convincing enough to anyone that has a brain that he needs help.I hope Garcia wins this but if he doesn’t that just will show how corrupt this system really is.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287832/How-Tom-Cruise-infatuated-Catholic-Church-wanted-priest–kicked-stealing-alcohol.html

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m wondering if TC was a victim of abuse by a priest. Could that be the dirty little secret that Co$ has on him, since it would be his fault?

      I know, I know, that’s wild speculation, and there’s been no evidence of such behavior.

      • D.Geiger

        There has been no evidence but he never gave any as he might have never wanted it to come out.Who knows but I guarantee you that through his auditing sessions that if it did happen he does not want it to come out but scientology has all the records of everything sexual that he did as well as everything that may have been done to him by priests.

        • Missionary Kid

          It would be perfect emotional blackmail, as victims of abuse have a lot of shame attached to the events.

          On the other hand, I believe there’s never been any allegations about priests at the school.

          • 1subgenius

            “On the other hand, I believe there’s never been any allegations about priests at the school.”

            So, once again, why the hell did you share your hallucinations with us?

            Don’t answer that, just stop.

            • Missionary Kid

              I will. Sorry for throwing out the speculation instead of sticking to facts.

            • Captain Howdy

              Uh, we’re trying not to drag other more “bona fide” religions into this mess so as not to offend everybody. We do have Christians in this community.

            • Missionary Kid

              That would be un-Christian behavior. I don’t think any Christian would defend that type of behavior.

              On the other hand, I apologize for the speculation, because such a speculation besmerches innocent priests who are in the great majority. The priests who acted in that way are a tiny majority.

              I raised it because I am familiar with the molestation cases in Santa Barbara at the Franciscans’ St. Anthony Seminary. There are no similar stories about the seminary school TC went to.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hey, I’m just a materialist trying to keep the peace.

              And while we’re at it, can we get a lawyer in here ? Have all the lawyers flown the coop ? It’s pretty sad when a nabob like me is trying to figure out the legal intricacies of this stuff and nobody is setting me straight.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Paging Tikk… Tikk to the Bunker, stat!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No shit….and where the hell has “Mox” been?
              And “Where Is She”……….where the fuck is she?
              Where the hell is Vance? He is a contract law Atticus finch no less.

              I can’t believe I am actually looking for lawyers.
              Usually at work I am trying to scrape them off my leg with a wire brush.
              I think I just exteriorized again.
              Xenu help me.

            • Captain Howdy

              Xanax help me is more like it .

            • FistOfXenu

              At your service BTN. You need a lawyer punched or something?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Thanks FOX, but the ones I deal with are hicks!
              …hell…I can take em.

            • FistOfXenu

              I have plans for him. They include a 6’x6′ cell and a guy named Bubba..

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBeU2utihwM Deckard Cain

              I know that having Tikk ‘splain all of this and give his take on legal arguments, I say that we leave that out of the conversation for awhile. I would hate for Tikk to provide the Cult with any information that would be seen as a free legal strategy.

        • N. Graham

          I don’t know, I think his glibness would have hidden it.

      • 1subgenius

        So what would be the point of posting what you did?

      • Captain Howdy

        Let’s not all pile on MK just because he got caught in the middle of recent events he probably wasn’t even aware of.

        • Missionary Kid

          Thanks, but it looks like all the comments have been removed. Disquis doesn’t seem to show them any more. I’ll try removing it.

          • Captain Howdy

            Don’t sweat it, this place is nuts but not half as nuts as youtube. It’s just a little bit more serious and astute and friendly.

            • Missionary Kid

              I tried to remove my original comment, but couldn’t. This place has the kind of insanity that I like. Very little ad hominem attacks. Answers from other people are witty, to the point, and kind to the ex-$cis that show up – unless they’re not ex and trolling.

    • Ze Moo

      The story you reference has been popping up all over the news services. It comes from 2005 (or earlier) article in some newspaper and seems to be trying to smoke screen Cruise from being associated with the CO$ crazy. If he is a drunken 17 year old catholic seminarian what could do wrong?

  • Captain Howdy

    How can a “religion” have a justice system that is recognized by a legal court in the USA ? What’s next, recognition of sharia law ? And I thought binding arbitration is suppose to be decided by a legally recognized 3rd party entity ?

    • Missionary Kid

      Probably, there’s a contract between the Garcias and Co$ that they signed at one time or another.

      • Captain Howdy

        I understand that, but the Garcias want a hearing in a “wog” court, which they should be entitled to because there’s no such as a religious court in the USA that I’m aware of.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m not saying that this is a matter of a religious court, instead, like a lot of other contracts, there are often clauses that call for arbitration in cases of disputes. I can see Co$ sneaking in such a clause in the contract, that laid out who and what the arbitrators would be.

          One defense against such a clause by the Garcias might be that they didn’t read the contract, believe it or not.

          • Captain Howdy

            I don’t think legally binding arbitration can be decided by one of the parties that have a vested interest in the outcome.

            • Missionary Kid

              I certainly hope so, but they’ll always try to claim that somehow they’re independent, and not in the pocket of Co$.

            • N. Graham

              Ya, who decides who is “independent” ?

            • Missionary Kid

              Ultimately, a judge, but the Co$ strategy is always to litigate, litigate, litigate and delay, delay, and delay so that it becomes too costly for the person suing them to continue. It’s BS, as you and I know, but attorneys throw crap against the wall to see if it sticks.

              The saying is, if you’re wrong on the facts, litigate on the law. If you’re wrong on the law, litigate the facts.

            • FistOfXenu

              And if you’re $cientarCONon you’d better litigate on everything.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. The reason for the attack strategy from LRH was, stripped of all the BS, there’s nothing underneath. Hopefully, this penetrates the veil of BS.

              I’m wondering how many of their attorneys are wogs, and how many are $cions. I doubt many wog attorneys would become $cions after having to defend Co$.

            • FistOfXenu

              There’s policy on that. I don’t remember details now but I once read it. Wish I had the documentation now. But somebody here’s likely to have it. I can’t remember the part about having $cientarCONon lawyers but when they use wog lawyers they have to hat them. No shit. There’s even a “right” way to be a wog.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wow! Talk about another way of arranging a foot shoot. As I understand it, that means that the lawyers would be trained in the job to do things the Co$ way. Judges are going to love that.

            • AnonPTS

              If the facts are against you, pound on the law. If the law is against you, pound on the facts.

              If both the facts and law are against you, pound on the table.

            • Missionary Kid

              ;-p

            • sharon brown

              Exactly !I’m trying to wrap my head around how their arbitration would work,since the Garcia’s No longer are, nor desire to play by $cientology rules they No longer believe in. Who can arbitrate with people that , due to their religous beliefs can’t talk to you ! As a purely contract case ,I think it would be good, as they misrepresented what the funds were for as evidenced by it being 2013 and millions of dollars given, yet Still No Super powers building ! Trying Not to laugh typing ” Super powers building ! lmao !!

          • RMycroft

            Really? “I didn’t read that”? Wow!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

            • Missionary Kid

              The Blues Brothers, of course, were on a mission from god.

              I had just sold something to an attorney, and he didn’t look at the contract and just signed it & tossed it to me, so I asked him why he didn’t read it. His answer was that if he wanted to get out of it, he could. I assume that was because he, as an attorney, could make it a PITA for my company to sue for damages.

              Another attorney told me that ignorance of a contract can be used as reason to get out of it. I’m assuming that there are other circumstances.

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              Boy you sure pick attorneys! The actual answer to those two points are 1. You can’t get out of every contract through the courts, but you could try to “bully” your way out, which is creepy, and 2. Ignorance may be an excuse if you are married to Dagwood and the year is 1950, but all adults today are expected to not sign a contract if they don’t understand it.

            • Missionary Kid

              1. That’s why attorneys can be slime to do business with. 2. When I say ignorance, I do not mean stupidity. I mean not knowing what is in a contract. I’m not saying it will work, but it has been used successfully.

            • RMycroft

              Best contract story I heard, someone signed without reading. When questioned about it he said “I trust you”. “But you didn’t read it!” “That’s okay, I’ve got a gun”, and slaps said piece on the table.

              Obviously an American Cool Story Bro from a state that might allow it.

              I usually find that the more complicated a contract is, the easier it would be to break it. Luckily software companies seem to have given up on the “we own your brain” clause.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m glad “software companies seem to have given up on the ‘we own your brain’ clause.” Now they, and hardware companies, are trying to patent the world.

        • N. Graham

          AND because they probably tried the Scientology arbitration route and got refused for no logical reason. So the only recourse is the courts.

    • 1subgenius

      How?
      First Amendment.
      There are exceptions, and this case is attempting to use one.
      The arbitrations required to be fair are outside the “religious” zone.

      • Captain Howdy

        What religious justice system is recognized in the U.S ?

        • N. Graham

          I think the Jedis are.

        • http://twitter.com/jonhendry Jonathan W. Hendry
          • Captain Howdy

            Thanks.

  • Missionary Kid

    Tom Cruise’s $50 million lawsuit against In Touch and Life & Style magazines has moved to private arbitration: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/tom-cruise-lawsuit-mediation_n_2818040.html
    Damn. I think his Scibot attorneys were desperate to keep Co$ out of the news.

    • Ze Moo

      The private arbitration is a mandatory move. Any decisions by the arbitrator are not binding. The ‘0fficial’ trial start date is April 29, 2014. Plenty of time for games.

      • Missionary Kid

        Are facts revealed in arbitration sealed if the case goes to trial? I’m willing to bet TCs attorneys aren’t anxious to have that happen.

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          They have been ordered to mediation, which is akin to a mild attempt by the court to try to get the parties to settle. What is discussed is inadmissible, but it is doubtful anything substantive will be discussed.

    • RMycroft

      Bert Parks doesn’t work for Tom Cruise, he works for Scientology. About the only person who doesn’t know this is Tom Cruise.

      • Missionary Kid

        Probably willful ignorance.

      • Observer

        You mean Bert Fields? Because Bert Parks sang “There she iiiiiiiiis, Miss Ameeeeeerica” at the Miss America pageants. lol

        • BuryTheNuts2

          That made me chuckle when I first read RM’s post. I pictured Bert Fields singing “There she is” to Tom Cruise.
          I was picturing that ‘Cruise in Drag” picture that Media Lush has on his Scientology Bollocks site as well.

          My brain is not quite right.
          I may need intervention from big pharma.

          • FistOfXenu

            Perfect. Now I’m sitting here with this composite madness in my mind’s eye, Cruise in drag but in huge BE boots so he can be tall enough to be in a beauty pageant, while Bert Fields who’s really Bert Parks is groaning out “There she is”.

            Either this is one of those fancy mnemonic tricks memory experts invent and it’s just waiting to be associated with something (can’t think what) or else we’re collaborating on the script for a South Park follow up.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well I must tell you…My memory is about a micrometer away from photographic so I don’t even need to pull out the mnemonic party tricks.

              Everyone I know HATES IT…
              When I say ‘remember that time”….They want to hack me into pieces…why?…because I really do!

              I say we go with the South Park script.
              I think it would be FABULOUS.

            • EnthralledObserver

              When I first read this: “My memory is about a micrometer away from photographic” I had to re-read, I thought it said: “My memory is about a micrometer away from pornographic” – and with images of TC dressed in drag whistling round my mind I think I was entirely justified… LOL

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OK..no matter how wrong that is…i Like it…
              Must go pack for vacation…
              EO, Not right.
              Luv Ya!

            • jensting

              while we’re busy misreading, I read “must go pack for vaccination” – sounded reasonable enough.

            • grundoon

              Better hop in the sauna and sweat out the brown acid.

            • FistOfXenu

              And that’s how it starts..

        • N. Graham

          Ya, but he still doesn’t work for Tom.

        • Captain Howdy

          LOL I missed that one !

      • Espiando

        You mean “Bert Fields”, right? Bert Parks, of course, was the longtime host of the Miss America pageant. And we all know that TC and good-looking women don’t go together.

        • RMycroft

          D’OH! Brain fart!

  • Richard

    That’s what Scientology is vicious cycle of contradiction lies and betrayal

  • http://www.facebook.com/Nrmmm Noah Miller

    Hold on, what religion isn’t applied?

  • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

    HAH!

    Love the picture, Tony!!!

    Alanzo

  • 1subgenius

    The “length of the chancellor’s foot” principle applies here. Meaning that there are sufficient grounds to rule either
    way, and it will depend on which way the judge wants to go.

    It would be easy to say since this is a Tampa judge he’s in the pocket of the cult, but dox would be preferable. Research into the judge’s history might give a clue.

    In a general recent trend sense, the Headleys’ case’s ruling may hurt (voluntary submission to “church” doctrine), and the Ohio Amish hair-cutters (not all “religious” disputes are immune) might help.

    And there is a body of law on the line which the courts can cross to resolve disputes that arose out of a “religious” scenario.

    If I were to rule it would be for the Garcias, even if it didn’t involve this particular cult. There are juicy fraud aspects ala Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker.

    • RMycroft

      A federal judge, so that might be different. I don’t have any references for Judge Whittemore in my media archive. (Oh yes, I make sure to tag ALL the judges in thousands of media articles.)

      The fact that he’s already on the watch against Scientology’s favorite tactic of flooding with paperwork suggests that he’s no noob. I predict that Scientology will try to find an excuse to ask for another judge. (Kill his dog and then claim he’s biased against them is traditional.)

    • Missionary Kid

      Very well put.

  • RMycroft

    Since Scientology’s internal procedures for settling disputes involves quests that would make Where in the Circles of Hell is Carmen Sandiego? look trivial, it hardly seems fair, you know?

  • 10oriocookies

    It was interesteing to read Pete Mansells deposition. He says Scientologys ethics/moral codes are stricter than most or some such nonsense. I reported fraud directly to him and RTC and nothing was done about it. I asked for my right as a staff member and scientologist to receive a committe of evidence to resolve the matter of Narconon lying to me to get me off my post. I also asked for help in getting repaid over $250k I lent to NN. My answer I got from Phil Hart on the matter OSA request was “NOPE”. I didnt hear squat back from the reports of fraud.

    • 1subgenius

      Please contact the Garcias’ attorney and offer your help.

      • 10oriocookies

        Contact info? I’d be happy to get on the stand and refute what he said in his deposition. Its bullshit and im not afraid to call bullshit in court. OSA-Schmosha. My can of worms would be great to open up in court. Just sayin.

        • esb100

          Contact info for the Garcias’ 2 attys — their email addresses — are listed on the final page of the above motion

          • 10oriocookies

            thanks.

            • esb100

              To be clear, the Garcias’ attys are Weil and Babbit, listed — with their email addresses – -in the middle of the last page, and not the 2 attys listed at the bottom of the page, who represent the church

            • 10oriocookies

              its done. hopefully I can help.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Good luck and thank you.

        • BuryTheNuts2
          • 10oriocookies

            thanks!

            • 1subgenius

              follow up
              and learn how to google

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You are as bossy as I am.
              Are we related?

            • coonellie

              Yeah, he’s TC’s step-brother πŸ˜‰

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              seriously? what crawled up your ass tonight? 10’s on our side now.

            • 1subgenius

              Wasn’t meant the way you took it.

          • 1subgenius

            btn delivers
            maybe 10….will learn how to google
            let’s hope he follows up

            • 10oriocookies

              I googled 1subgenius and came up with “cut a newbie some slack, Jack”. Weird. I will follow up, no worries.

            • 10oriocookies

              email sent to the attorney in this case with relevant info:)

            • EnthralledObserver

              omg… you are one of my heros now for definite! πŸ˜€

            • FistOfXenu

              Aw 1sub, and you said he didn’t know how to google. πŸ˜›

            • 1subgenius

              Didn’t mean for it to seem harsh. Nice job in following up. Hope it helps.

            • 10oriocookies

              All good friend. I hope it helps too, i dont think they will need it though. These lawyers seem to be pretty good at what they do. Im sure they arent dependent on outside info to win the case.

        • sharon brown

          We got your back !! :

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      $250k is a lot of money, I hope you try to get it back!

      • 10oriocookies

        They have been paying, but it took me threatening to sue before i got a dime. First they tried paying nothing, then agreed to pay 50k, then 100k then the whole thing. They have been late at least 80 percent of the time as well. Its cool, i get late fees!!!

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          Good for you! That’s the first time I have heard they are paying someone back.

          • 10oriocookies

            Its been a pain in the ass, but worth it. Very good learning experience.

          • N. Graham

            Me too unless they really had something good on them. What do you have on them? (just kidding). But seriously, how did you manage that? and Congratulations!

            • 10oriocookies

              I do. I made it very clear to all parties involved that I have a very large cache of documents and emails. Even knowing that, they still bet on me being a good little boy and tried preying on the control they thought they had on my eternity. I look at it like this now: If I am going to live forever, they fucked up bad…..cause Im not going away until this shit is dealt with.

            • ParticleMom

              Maybe next year you will be in the SMERSH brackets! :)

        • EnthralledObserver

          Fuck those arseholes – you aren’t bank – they should be paying the whole thing back in total immediately! Late fees are nice, but the whole lot immediately would be financially better for you I am guessing.

    • wannabeclear

      Yes, $cientology’s ethics and morals codes are so strict that they allow the guy in charge to commit assault and battery upon subordinates at whim without any consequences. They are so strict and strong that every other person leaving or speaking out has been declared an SP, but they no longer are notified or given a copy of their declares and even if they do reach out to the International Justice Chief to get a CommEv, they are ignored. Civil Justice may be blind, but $cientology Ethics are also deaf, dumb and willfully ignorant, if not completely criminal.

      • Observer

        I vote for completely criminal.

        • Missionary Kid

          I vote for RICO, RICO, RICO.

      • FistOfXenu

        Don’t forget the Hole, that form of imprisonment called RPF, fraud of NarCONon, the solitary imprisonment called babywatch, and all the strange ways that people disappear and either end up dead or permanently missing.

    • Ze Moo

      Please contact the Garcias attorney, proof of Mansells perjury would be useful. The doctrine of ‘he who brings in the most money is absolved of everything’ would be most useful here.

    • EnthralledObserver

      What Ze Moo said! AGREE – go testify for the Garcias. πŸ˜€

  • http://twitter.com/xenubarb xenubarb

    Aw Peter… they just cannot help trying to turn anything and everything into an infomercial for Scientology!

    And doesn’t their agreement with the IRS mention prompt and cheerful refund if requested?

    • D.Geiger

      The saddest thing about america is that the poor citizens are afraid of the IRS but cults like scientology have no fear.What does that say about equality and freedom.

      • Ze Moo

        It says if you can hire good lawyers, you don’t fear much. Remember that ‘good lawyers’ also furnish lobbying teams and reputation repair and just about any public relations anyone could use or misuse.

        p.s. I am not afraid of the IRS, I just pay my taxes when due and keep receipts when necessary.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Beatty/1631176570 Chuck Beatty

        there are so many instances of Scientology “standing up” to institutions that have “done wrong”, the IRS, the Justice Dept, which were instances that these institutions rightfully deserved public condemnation, but this mistaken public disapproval is what Scientology piggybacked itself upon, and truly should NOT have gained for Scientology any approval, for those instances when Scientology was in the right, against the corrupt officials in those institutions which themselves did NOT deserve those corrupt officials in their midst.

        Unraveling the rights and the wrongs, takes a lot more discussion, that unfortunately boringly leads into un-glitzy side discussions.

        Thank god for the internet! It lets all the side discussions happen.

        I’m so happy Tony Ortega took on Scientology, in any case!

        If you happen to have been watching events, media interest wise, over the last decade or two, the fricking US media, (Ortega, St. Pete Times reporters and editors) have thankfully been ON THE BALL!

        Tony deserves such a huge thankyou, he’s fricking unique!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          He is fricking unique and slightly batshit as well. But he is awesome!

          TO: Please note in my P/C folder that calling you awesome cancels out calling you batshit.
          Please :)

          Um, yeah.

        • Captain Howdy

          “Tony deserves such a huge thankyou,”

          So do you Chuck, so do you.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Our Constitutional separation of “church” and state allows scientology’s criminal enterprise to thrive. There has to be a loophole somewhere to take down this cult.

    Lawyer, Theodore Babbitt was expecting this. I hope he has a good game plan to counter this.

    • wannabeclear

      I don’t think that a loophole is required. The Co$ is arguing first amendment rights in a situation where the issue isn’t religious, but a matter of fraud. Babbitt was expecting this argument and likely already had the bones of his answer written, which includes citations from lawsuits where civil law prevails.

      • SP ‘Onage

        Thanks for clarifying that. πŸ˜‰

      • Ze Moo

        I don’t see how the court can avoid not looking into the fraud allegations. All the lawyers have to do is show that LRH’s ‘doctrine’ requires unconditional obedience to the leader. That should not be hard to do. In fact (in my mind anyway) the fraud for donations is the only issue to adjudicate, the monies on account for courses should have been refunded practically automatically. The 93 IRS settlement requires that.

        Some time last year, a South African man was declared an SP and the org personal taunted him that he could not enter the org to get the refund demand form because he was declared an SP. Using a catch 22 like that in the US would have violated the IRS settlement. I wonder if they already did that to Garcia?

        • EnthralledObserver

          If you politely asked the CO$ to post them out to you (on account of the fact they won’t let you in the door) what would they say? Like literally, what would they (or have they said) say?

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in the Church of Scientology teach that inferior wog religions such as Judaism and Christianity are actually alien mind control implants.Scientology uses indoctrination and auditing to free its members from these foolish implants that make people blather on in prayer to implanted alien entities.

    However, when it comes to legal matters we in the Church of Scientology are extremely religious and will
    not hesitate to quote the Hebrew or Christian scriptures in our legal filings.

    We want to our fancy wog lawyers to quote the Bible.

    We want our fancy wog lawyers to sweep all of these so-called “commercial fraud” allegations under the rug by forcing the plaintiffs into arbitration.

    Let’s face it: If we can force the plaintiffs into arbitration all of their claims will be found to be baseless and without
    merit.

    Sea Org Admiral Tom Cruise today addressed billions of Scientologists globally concerning the wave of recent attacks on COB RTC David Miscavige and the Church of Scientology: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/02/06/sea-org-admiral-tom-cruise-denies-all-allegations-of-abuse-criminality-etc/

    • Sherbet

      O, GR8 one: That photo on your website — is it scn’s answer to “Where’s Waldo?” I see a kitschy imitation of an Egyptian temple (a Las Vegas hotel lobby maybe?), with one teeny, tiny person hidden in the photo. I found him. Did I win?

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Yes, you won!

        Please come in to your nearest Ideal Org for your prize — a free personality test!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          You heard that Sherbet! It is FREE!

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            BTN, when will you end your lawless wog rampage against the Church and join the Sea Org?

            We in RTC have you, Chocolate Velvet, and John P. listed as our top wog recruitment targets.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Not until the last Scientologist is free!
              Either that, or until you guys start incorporating the attached boots into the Sea Org fashions.
              I am boot girl.
              I want to play basketball in these.
              Is COB up for some one on one?

            • FistOfXenu

              You meant “half on one” right? It was a mistype?

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s never half on one, it’ll be 5 and a half on one – didn’t Mike and Marty teach you anything? :p

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m VERY careful what I learn from them.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Good call, hon… good call.

            • Missionary Kid

              KINKY BOOTS! Funny movie.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              MK, you are starting to scare me…hehehhe

            • Missionary Kid

              I use the term about myself that Stanley Kubrick used in “The Loved Ones,” “Commie Prevert.”

            • Missionary Kid

              Wrong director and name of the movie”: it’s The Loved One. It was written by Terry Southern and Christopher Isherwood and directed by Tony Richardson. Dennis, (played by Robert Morse) is an Englishman and gets off the plane in L.A. It is his first time in the U.S.

              Going through customs, he is asked a bunch of questions. Finally, satisfied with the answers, the customs agent lets him into the country, saying, “Just as long as you aren’t one of those Commie Preverts.”

              The phrase cracked me up, so I call myself that when I’m feeling subversive.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Loved that film! “RRRReeeeeddddd!”

            • Missionary Kid

              :-)

            • Captain Howdy

              “We in RTC have you, Chocolate Velvet, and John P. listed as our top wog recruitment targets.”

              Gee OTVIIIisGrrr8! I feel slighted for some odd reason. Perhaps if I offer up COB this perfect anti-Psych Anthem that he is somehow unaware of in his omnipotence, perhaps he shall reconsider my worthiness

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoF_a0-7xVQ

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Capt!..John P has the win on overall word count and I have the win on overall posts..(thank you enter button!!!).
              CV is just…well…she has made COB crawl into the fetal position most (and I think OTVIII) named the new model CV E-meter after her….but I digress… :)
              Don’t feel slighted!
              That is what Marty Rathbun’s blog is for!

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Okay Captain Howdy. That video proved your Antipsych cred. You are on the recruitment list

              A Sea Org van will be at your home this evening at 6:00 PM.

              Please pack for a billion years.

          • Sherbet

            The joke’s on them. I have no personality.

      • FistOfXenu

        DM goes to Vegas? So that’s why he wants all that money! And that’s why $cientarCONon doesn’t have a front group called “Gamblanon”. DM doesn’t want a cure!

        • Sherbet

          It’s either Vegas or the home of the tackiest Real Housewives of Wherever. As for fake cures for gambling addiction, If there’s money in it, DM will jump on that bandwagon, too.

          • Captain Howdy

            Sherbert are ready ? I was just outside and something wicked this way comes. It’s going to be a doozy.

        • Captain Howdy

          DM, Shelly and Dr Denk already went to Vegas when LRH was coughing up his last brain cell back at the trailer.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Bluebird bus. …Capt….
            Bluebird bus….Don’t hate on the LRH…
            PFFT…

    • Missionary Kid

      OTVIIIisGrrr8! You gave me a smile with your greatness.

  • wannabeclear

    “Scientology provides a justice and resolution system that Scientologists believe works far more efficiently and with less random uncertainty than the civil justice system…”

    Dear Co$,

    Federal judges generally don’t take kindly to those who denigrate the justice system to which they’ve dedicated their professional lives, but thanks for playing.

    Love,

    Everyone not wearing $cilon Blinders

    • EnthralledObserver

      Yeah, and of course there is less random uncertainty – any parishoner or ex-parishoner is CERTAIN to find that any judgement will favour what is BEST for the CO$, never them!

  • 0tessa

    A violation of the law (financial fraud) cannot be dealt with with an ‘internal arbritation’ by the alleged offender, i.e. a church in this case. Only religious matters could be. Right? I mean, if the church would kill one of its members, it would not be handled by an internal arbritation, would it? Or is freedom of religion in the USA unlimited?

    • Missionary Kid

      A criminal case would not. A civil case, which this is, might. Of course, I consider Co$ to be a criminal enterprise that should be prosecuted under the RICO statutes.

      • 0tessa

        Thanks. Maybe I don’t understand why financial fraud is not criminal?

        • Missionary Kid

          This is a civil suit, brought in Federal Court. If you read the title page, it says, in essence Garcia v. C0$. If it were a criminal case, it would be U.S. v Co$, and a Government prosecutor would be handling the case..

          The Garcia’s may be alleging financial fraud, but this is basically a suit over what is contract law. The contract was, I believe, that if one paid for and took the courses, that the Co$ promised that it would provide (I’m making this up) happiness, wealth, or whatever. The Garcias are saying that they fulfilled their part of the bargain by paying for and diligently taking the courses, yet the promised results didn’t happen, so they want their money back. They are alleging fraud in that Co$ took money under false pretenses.

          • 0tessa

            Thank you very much for your explanation. Appreciate.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re welcome.

              Be careful in believing what I write. I’m a regular font of misinformation. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and I’m real dangerous. πŸ˜‰

  • SP ‘Onage

    “But with exhibits, the church just filed a brief of about 350 PAGES. (In fact, we’re debating whether to upload them all here. They’re repetitive and may suck up a lot of bandwidth β€” and you know the state of our server.)”

    Can you show us a couple of exhibits, just to get the just of it?

    • TonyOrtega

      They’re all there, with two exceptions: Exhibit 1 has an additional part
      which is just xeroxed from Scientology’s own books. Exhibit 2 has SEVEN
      more parts, which are just more copies of contracts that the Garcias
      signed, and are like the others. Exhibit 6 is just a copy of the
      original Garcia state suit, which was superseded.

      • SP ‘Onage

        I wrote “jist” of it and DisQus turned it into “just.” lol.

        Thank you, Tony. Reading it now. :)

        • N. Graham

          I think you mean “gist.” Word clearing: the main or essential part of a matter

          • SP ‘Onage

            Damn. I try so hard. I just saw “gist” in Synthia Fagen’s post and immediately knew I screwed up. :)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Come here…grab the cans.
              Ready…?
              I am not auditing you!

            • SP ‘Onage

              Heh! Sometimes I feel like a tiny “ignorant” boat in a vast sea of knowledge and genius when I post here at the bunker.

              I’m sure for most of you, my grammar, punctuation, spelling, is like someone running their nails down a chalkboard, sorry…now about those cans… πŸ˜€

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh please. I am someone with a SEA-ORG education….
              So WTF…IQ and Education are NOT the same!
              WE ROCK!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Join the club – I hear you. πŸ˜€

            • Captain Howdy

              That’s what the edit function is for. You can commit mistakes — grammatological or ideological — correct them and pretend/deny they ever happened.

            • SP ‘Onage

              Now why didn’t I think of that? I’ve never used the edit button before. Just now clicked it to check it out. Doh!

            • Captain Howdy

              Stick with me kid, I’ll teach you all the tricks of the trade.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    350 (WOG rules don’t apply to us) pages.

    I know if I was wearing that Judges robe…I would be livid!

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Clearly, this judge would not allow them to exceed the page limits because he didn’t want to read a lot of unnecessary verbiage, and judges believe any legal argument should be made succinctly. Imagine the judge asking his law clerk to print out the brief so he could take it home to read, and then imagine his face when the clerk hands him 350 pages!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Oh I can imagine his face alright, and I am loving it.
        I am so glad they did this.

        They are so stupid.
        So very, very stupid.

        • FistOfXenu

          Foot. Meet bullet. Rinse. Repeat.

      • Missionary Kid

        If you can’t bury them with logic or law, bury them with paper.

        The firm producing the paper will bill their client accordingly – for each copy, the time it took to write up anything, the time it took an office worker to copy, collate, and distribute copies to the different attorneys, the plaintiffs, and the court. It will also bill for thinking about the case while sitting on the John, and lunches where the suit is mentioned among any lawyers, as well as paralegals, research, etc. etc.

        The bad news: attorneys getting rich off of BS. The good news: it costs Co$ a bundle if they lose. The bad news: it will cost the Garcias a lot of money if they lose and have to pay court costs.

        The bad news: Co$ will do everything to delay this. The good news: this is Federal Court, and it might set precedence.

  • mook

    can anybody give some hints as to who this blind item might be about?:
    “This C list reality star who is being groomed to be A list spent two hours at a Scientology center with her new friend. If she became a Scientologist, they would love that. With a capital LOVE.”
    http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2013/03/blind-item-5_6.html

    the popular guesses on CDAN are NeNe Leakes (from Real Housewives of Atlanta; it can’t be her because she’s a devout Christian [even though she constantly says she’s “spiritual”], and plus this is her last season on RHOA) and Emily Maynard (from The Bachelor and The Bachelorette; also can’t be her because she’s Methodist)

    my guess: Katherine Webb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Webb

    • TonyOrtega

      This may just be the most pointless Mook derail of all time. But it’s hard to be certain.

      • mook

        :)

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I can’t believe you got a down arrow on your own blog!
        That is fucking rich!

        • SP ‘Onage

          I wear my down arrows like a badge. :) Kinda like Tory and her Golden Rod.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Ditto!

      • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

        Tony, if there’s ever one person who I think could be your potential ‘best interview ever’ it’s Michael K of DListed.com … I don’t think I’ve read funnier and bitchier comments about scientology out there, I reckon he would make a worthy addition and I’m sure he has loads of scion stories he’d be happy to share.

        just a thought [and I think he’s NY based]… either way wouldn’t it be a hilarious meeting either way?

    • Ze Moo

      “Reality Star” is an oxymoron.

      • N. Graham

        Just like “Scientologist Moron” is a redundancy.

      • Observer

        So is “Scientology ethics”.

      • FistOfXenu

        No that’s just a moron.

    • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

      I see your gossip and raise you:

      “they saw something that’ll make John Travolta and the other alien-loving queens at Scientology cream out their weight in panty pudding”…..

      details will be posted on my bollocks site ayt midnight UK time

      • Observer

        I’m about to eat dinner. Thanks for that mental image. :-p

      • FistOfXenu

        I don’t care what time zone you post it I just lost interest in my supper in this one.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Supper?
          Ears up!
          Never give the BTN geographical clues like this!

          If you don’t believe me…ask Debbie Cook!
          Would you like to see the video of her last colonoscopy?

          • FistOfXenu

            No thanks. When you’ve seen one colonoscopy you’ve seen ’em all. But there are so many assumptions you have to make to get from supper to my geography. Just sayin’

  • mook

    Larry Wright was interviewed by Christiane Amanpour last night for CNN, with typical canned response by a CoS-hired attorney
    http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/05/investigating-the-church-of-scientology/

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    If the Garcias are no longer Scientologists, or if they’re Scientologists with different beliefs from Miscavige’s branch, attempting to force them to follow Scientology’s way of doing things is a violation of their First Amendment rights. It would be like saying anyone must do what the pope says because the pope says so, and to not do what he says violates his religion. Religions are attempting to use this non-argument in all sorts of ways now, especially to avoid providing health care to women, but it does not work that way.

    • jensting

      Would it not be the best way to sort out whether teh Garcias are some different sort of $cientologist is to get the ecclesiastic head of $cientology to testify as to whether or not the organisation has the right venue?

  • Observer

    The “church” wants to force the Garcias into arbitration? “What a shock!” gasped no one at all ever.

    I just hope the “church’s” 10+-times-the-page-limit response submission puts the judge on notice as to just what kind of organization he’s dealing with: a bunch of brutish thugs who think they’re above the law while abusing the legal system to take revenge on others and hiding behind the skirts of “religion”, as per its sainted Founder’s teachings.

    • N. Graham

      Well said!

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    I have never had acid reflux disease. Not even sure I know what it is. But it sure feels like I have it after skimming this. Speaking of intestines, I hope this judge has the intestinal fortitude to see this through. Regardless, I see lots of long delays, paperwork, etc…
    Does anyone know if it is an all or nothing deal–that is, could some of the Complaint issues be remanded to arbitration (such as the request for $ on account for services–even tho that violates the IRS restrictions) and other Complaint issues (such as the $ for SuperPower) be adjudicated?

    I also wonder if the Garcias were declared before the filing of this. Would be great if they had some evidence of that to show that it would be impossible to get a fair arbitration.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      The arrogance in this brief (which ironically…isn’t)…is so striking. The constant referrals to the exhibits/declarations to force the expansion of the rhetoric they were not allowed to submit in the first place.

      Oh this is priceless.
      This is giving me a legalgasm!

      • FistOfXenu

        “legalgasm”. We did that subject on Tuesday didn’t we? You didn’t report it. Time to check you for any other withholds.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Are you going to hold my cans?
          Or am I holding yours?

          • FistOfXenu

            Good question. Which way’s better for legalgasms? I mean, for pulling withholds on legalgasms?

    • The Dakini

      PTBA I suffer from acid reflux. Apparently, I’ve inherited a withhold from from grandmother’s side of the family. Basically it feels like an alien is burning through you innards in an attempt for freedom.

      To manage it, I regulate my rodeo watching and always read Tonys blog on a full stomach. Lord knows I wouldn’t have an appetite afterwards.

  • N. Graham

    If I recall, didn’t they already try, to no avail, to go the church route? I’m really hoping this gets a fair hearing. Scientology arbitration-what a farce.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I love the fact that to request a refund you must go into an org and fill out a form.
      However, you can’t do that because you are not allowed in the Org.
      WTF?

      • Missionary Kid

        Catch 22

        • BuryTheNuts2

          You bet, by design!

  • hogarthian

    I would like to think that any judge would see this as a blatant attempt to override the judicial system. Reading that makes me incandescent with rage. Hopefully, this time, they’ve got themselves a judge who sees this as the ‘red rag to a bull’ that it should be seen as. FFS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001007868067 Synthia Elizabeth Fagen

    That’s a lot of mumbo jumbo to get through on an empty stomach but, if I get the gist of this, they’re not arguing about his entitlement to a refund, only that they would like to administer it their way, right?

    Are they violating the terms of the closed door, IRS agreement by not giving him a refund?

    If they, theoretically agreed to follow the church’s system, do they have any recourse? Does that automatically, then, make them ineligible to come back to the courts for redress if the cult misbehaves?

    I am not suggesting that they capitulate to the cult, I am simply asking about the various legalities involved in every scenario.

  • Ruby

    In my over 20+ years as a staff member, I never once heard of an “arbitration” ever taking place. I saw people refund, or leave, or get upset, or give up. But I never heard of an actual “arbitration” meeting taking place regarding the request of donations for anything…ever. Has anyone? Are they using the term “arbitration” as another word for ” refund/repayment routing form”?

  • Sherbet

    Apropos of absolutely nothing: I was in Microsoft’s website today, and I came across a TC Jack Reacher screen background available for download. I guess MS thought the movie was going to be a huge hit.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Whoops!

      • Sherbet

        I’ll send you the link, BTN, in case you have reason to gaze upon TC all day long. I just know that, secretly, you’re Prez of his Fan Club.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Actually, here is a funny (read:stupid) story…I probably told this sometime long ago…but what the hell.
          Ever since Tom Cruise hit the screen in Taps, I have had dreams about him. Lots of them…I have no idea why, as I have never been particularly fond of him and never found him all that attractive. BTW…I noticed the center tooth early on and it has always drove me NUTS!
          During that whole Brat Pack thing…I was madly in love with Emilio….so there ya go!
          Anyway. I have always had dreams about Tom Cruise and he has always been my brother in my dreams.
          One time, I was even auditing him at a cheap card table and then we got into a discussion about our “father”.
          This was like 20 years ago.

          Please tell me you guys will still talk to me after this admission?

          • sugarplumfairy

            Let’s just thank goodness you weren’t his sister in real life, or you’d probably be getting sec checked right now.. Oh, who are we kidding? You’d have been declared way back in the 80’s..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Actually, I think I would have been declared in the 70’s when I was looking at my mother with a serious sneer when she was LRonning….. saying….nuh uh!!!

            • hogarthian

              Considering his real life sister is another class a nutter, she’s probably being prepared, as we speak, to think of the good of the ‘group’ and marry the little freak herself.

          • Captain Howdy

            What ?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              What do you mean what? Are you on potato juice?
              I didn’t say i liked it!

            • Captain Howdy

              Huh ?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Capt…look at me…Where U BEEN?
              Did you miss all of my admissions of why the hell I am here?

            • Captain Howdy
            • coonellie

              I’ve been drinking potato juice since I was old enough to realize the straight stuff didn’t give me migraines, and yet, I never thought of calling it potato juice! Sometimes your brilliance is blinding (and I say that sober!)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Please direct yur love to the Capt…
              Potato juice is all HIM.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              BTW…If you inject it into oranges you can sneak it into ball games.

            • coonellie

              If I brought two my hubcap would wear ’em like it was Mardi Gras and we’d get thrown out

            • 1subgenius

              Or just sneak the syringe in and inject it into your veins.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hey I came up with the potato juice thing, you heathen

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I love you Howdy…do you love me?
              Yeah, I thought so…MUAH!

            • Captain Howdy
            • coonellie

              My humblest apologies! We heathens are a slow, uneducated lot ;).

              Bowing low with a glass of pure Polish Potato Juju Juice as a goodwill offering…

          • EnthralledObserver

            Interpretation: Your Mother was in love with LRon, right? TC is a product of LRon… therefore he is your ‘brother’ – the common ‘Father’ is LRon i.e. Scientology! Maybe you should try to reach out to TC personally to discuss his involvement in Scientology??? :p

            • BuryTheNuts2

              EWWWhhh.
              Stop paying so damn much attention!
              Yeah….she was a sucker..reading Wrights book about the parsonage about broke my ASS.

              The good news is that she really was trying to boff the rocket scientist first..(Parsons)….And I think she did…(Whole nother story)

              OK, when I get back from Vacation I am going to post a picture of my Mother from the (shivers) time frame of which we speak.

            • grundoon

              BTN, we’ve been yearning for you to tell your story and your mom’s. We are just too darned polite to cajole you for info and poke into your anonymity.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

              Now I’ve got a vision of LRon saying, “I am your father. Look into your thetan, you know it is true for you.”

          • EnthralledObserver

            Oh, and I was totally going to marry Emilio in my teens, his picture was plastered ALL over my bedroom walls… *slaps Bury’s hands away from the Estevez man* πŸ˜‰

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Must fight me for him…even if he is short!

          • Sherbet

            Oh, my! Freud himself couldn’t untangle that skein of dreams. I’ll still talk to you, but I’m renaming you Snaggletooth Mapother.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Somebody down arrowed me cuz of this?
            I AM So PRoUD!!!!!

            • 0tessa

              Some folks don’t have a sense of humor. You obviously hit a nerve somewhere?

          • N. Graham

            If you’re trying to get me to confess about my Kelly Preston dreams it’s not going to work.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

            I used to find Tommy attractive, but I threw him over for Brad Pitt a long time ago.

            • hogarthian

              I’ve fallen out of love with Brad….. it was ‘inevitable’.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

    This may have been covered in a post already, but the Co$ claim seems to rest on the hope that the judge won’t distinguish the difference between contributions for services and requests for donations for capital projects. Once a religious institution is asking for funds for a purpose not directly related to its primary purpose (disseminating its beliefs or providing services to its adherents) it is open to scrutiny whether it has fulfilled its obligation as a fiduciary to the contributor. In this case the contribution was made for a specific purpose (in legal terms, a restricted gift). If the money was not used for the purpose for which it was donated, the organization (the CO$) will have a difficult time arguing that it has any religious protection.

    • Ruby

      And…I am sure the Garcia’s NEVER signed any specific agreement when donating to the SuperPower or the Orange County building. So…it seems the church is trying to include those donations as being covered by an “Enrollment Agreement”, which is signed only when a person is donating for services.

  • richelieu jr

    I love the assertion that the CoS method is ‘certianly less expensive’..

    Yes, I imagine so, but for whom?

    • Ruby

      right…less expensive…after the person has already spent $100’s of $1000’s of $$ to get to the point where they realize they want out. Sounds “less expensive” all right…

      • richelieu jr

        My point exactly Ruby… Less expensive for the CoS…

    • EnthralledObserver

      And isn’t this precisely the point… I hear you! I cannot see for the life of me how a judge won’t see through this blatant attempt to stack the deck their (CO$’s) way… and Merlin help us all if he doesn’t!

      • richelieu jr

        From your lips to Merlin’s ears (beard?), EnthralledObserver…

  • richelieu jr

    You gotta give ol’ L Ron credit– It was about time someone created a religion specializing in problems of the very rich…

  • http://www.facebook.com/phil.mckraken.58726 Phil McKraken

    Let’s see here. The arbitrator is also one of the contending parties. Sounds unconscionable. Sounds unenforceable.

  • Espiando

    Oh, please, please, please, Mr. Babbitt, get a deposition from Luke now that he’s contacted you. I wonder who he’s already deposed? Have they already done discovery on this, or is the fun yet to come? I’m hoping for Rinder so that the shysters on the other side can go into frothing, indignant rage. And doesn’t Marty know all of the details regarding the IRS settlement, which would come into play here? I just want the wrong side to play the “They’re SPs and can’t be trusted” card in court. The judge can then tell them where to shove that doctrine.

    I feel slightly bad about saying this, since she just lost her husband and all, but anything that causes Monique pain and trauma is a good thing…no, wait, I don’t feel bad about saying this. The only reason she’s on the second tier of Slimeball Scientology Attorneys is because Ken Moxon exists. Pile it on.

  • http://twitter.com/eh_politico Terri McAuley

    If the first amendment attempt doesn’t stand, this looks like the church and several of its entities may have to hand over their financial records… I smell an a audit.

    • EnthralledObserver

      What’s that… a REAL ‘audit’? Hahaha…

  • jensting

    Does anyone know if there are contrracts signed after donations to things like the SP building? Are any of the contracts uploaded with the response related to this type of donations?

    • Ruby

      No…there are no contracts signed when donating to SP building or Idle Org fundraising tricks.
      The registrars simply take the money and run.

  • Roger Larsson

    The song of right and wrong is a greater song than the song of life and death.

    The equal weight is the eternal – the balance is the eternal. The church of scientology has to make even with its victims if it ever will be able to get its asshole removed from people’s attention.

    Criminals can only pretend to be the owner of what victims of crime are the real owners of.

  • nessness

    I am just sorry his first name is not Calixto – my apologies if someone else has already referenced this. I am catching up with you all after having been away looking after my elderly and kick ass dad.

  • Lurker

    Sorry for such a long post from a noob (although long-time lurker), I think years of frustration just needed venting. I hope I don’t annoy you too much, please forgive me.

    I don’t know anything about legal stuff, but it seems to me that the Co$ has made the Garcias’ case for them in two pages. It references (on page 21) that in deciding if a contract is procedurally unconscionable there should be a consideration of whether there was a “realistic opportunity to bargain… or whether the terms were merely presented on a take-it-or-leave-it basis”. And then on the same page states that “Here, plaintiffs were entirely free to enter into the Agreements or not, as they saw fit.” Admitting there would have been no chance of bargaining terms and that they were presented on a “take-it-or-leave-it basis”. Just above this (top of page 21) it also refers to considerations of the relative bargaining power of each party. The Co$ had the power of exclusion from, or withholding of “religious” services, perceived authority over a persons “eternity”, and the ability to impose “ethics” procedures, including forcing sec checks, at an incurred personal cost (essentially a fine for questioning the contract’s terms). That seems procedurally unconscionable to me, but then, their whole process is really.

    (Page 22) Maybe with testimony from a psych, they could even argue that they were not of sound mind to have entered into a contract with CO$, (considering the power that group held over them at the time) which essentially signs away any rights to a redress of grievances (considering ethics policies). But even without making that argument (and admitting to mind-control) when accompanied with evidence from policy that “suppressive people” may be lied to and deprived of property, they may be able to argue that the contracts were also substantially unconscionable, and that the CO$ entered it in bad faith. Especially if it did not indicate the exceptions and policies that would apply to arbitration after being declared “suppressive” (without a committee of evidence, against their own supposed moral and “legal” codes). Especially if they can get testimony from others who have attempted arbitration and maybe been sent to “ethics” about it or “declared suppressive”, like for example Greg and Debra Barnes (if I remember rightly). This may show it is unconscionable in substance, as it knowingly deceives signers into signing away any and all rights, as the CO$, have no intention of arbitrating any case fairly. And as CO$ willfully entered that contract in bad faith at the time, (unlike the Garcias), that could be fraud in itself no? There must be such a thing as contract fraud in the U.S, making them invalid surely.

    Like I said, I know nothing, but it seems to me that CO$ might have blown away a few toes here, at least if the judge dislikes legal bullshittery and abuse of the First Amendment. Hopefully they will at least have shown the bad faith of their arguments and annoyed the judge. I hope the Garcias’ get a ruling in their favour on the issue of the contracts’ legitimacy, for everyone’s sake. And surely the judge will see that CO$’s arbitration process is designed to deny any rights to people like the Garcias and won’t compel people who no longer follow a “religion” to be subject to their whims.

    P.S Wasn’t their a ruling that CO$ had to pay refunds or did I misunderstand? They seem to be asserting that they don’t ever have to refund, which also shows the bad faith argument about forcing the Garcias’ into CO$ arbitration in itself.

    P.P.S. The rules in the U.S. about religious groups getting to decide how followers get to access “justice”, even against their will, seem so messed up, a good reason in itself never to identify as, or join any religious group, just in case. The institutions’ rights to religious freedom seems to trump an individual’s right to the same every time. It’s sickening.

    Anyway, so sorry for rambling on, I’m just angry at the slime their filing is oozing with I guess. I can’t believe CO$ (or any group, but especially destructive ones) can hide behind “religious” freedom to lie, cheat and steal, not to mention imprison and abuse. Damn that stupid IRS decision and it’s far reaching consequences. (But then, I am an evil psych who knows the true history of psychiatry and can personally attest to the effectiveness of the correct psychiatric drugs (for me) and REAL psychotherapy after abuse, so I would oppose them right? lol.) I’ll go back to lurking now. Love reading your comments, this seems like such a good and supportive community. I’m constantly impressed by the ex’s ability to stay strong and supportive of each other, and even joke about their experiences. You are all true survivors and it’s an honour just to lurk and watch. I wish you all continued strength, and peaceful, happy and healthy lives, and hope that one day the world will be free of this insidious cult and it (and DM) will be prosecuted for all the wrong it has done to you, your loved ones, and those who feel they have no-one. And Mr. Ortega’s work isn’t bad either πŸ˜€ .