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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Excerpts of Lawrence Wright's Book on Scientology are Predictably Awesome

THRExcerptTwo great excerpts from Lawrence Wright’s upcoming book, Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, & the Prison of Belief, have appeared in The Hollywood Reporter today, and they are predictably amazing.

The longer piece looks at Tom Cruise’s relationship with Scientology leader David Miscavige, and Cruise’s wavering relationship to Scientology itself. We’ve taken a stab at those subjects ourselves, but Larry puts everything together in such amazing detail and with such deft touch, you just know the rest of the book is going to be like butter.

The shorter excerpt is about John Travolta, told through his former Scientology handler, Spanky Taylor, who has an amazing story of living through the punishment of the Sea Org’s prison detail, the Rehabilitation Project Force. Wright is the first to get her to speak on the record, ever. Maybe it was his Alabama charm.

Get over there, read those excerpts, and then come back here and give us your thoughts!

A couple of first impressions. Spanky’s story is great, and in part for the reason that Tikk (Manhattan lawyer Scott Pilutik) pointed out in the comments — it shows that John Travolta was aware that members were being “rehabilitated” in labor camps. In his 2010 book, Blown for Good, Marc Headley had demonstrated that celebrities were not exempt from the wacky Scientology practices like shouting at ashtrays (which Wright gets into in these excerpts). But Travolta’s knowledge of how Spanky was being treated is a valuable new insight, isn’t it?

Also, we’ve heard about Miscavige’s taste for the finer things over the years, but Wright does such a great job assembling information about that in minute detail, and putting it in a context that we hadn’t quite grasped before — that Miscavige may have developed a lavish lifestyle as a direct result of his relationship with Cruise and exposure to the movie star’s world. Fascinating.

And another detail: We were encouraged to see how often Wright cited Janet Reitman’s book Inside Scientology in his footnotes. Janet’s book still amazes us for the depth of its research, and it certainly deserves the namechecking it gets in these excerpts.

As Kim O’Brien points out, this is one of the best images in these excerpts: “Rathbun assigned Davis to sit with Cruise in the parking lot of a Home Depot in Hollywood while the star was doing his Tone Scale drills — guessing the emotional state of random people coming out of the store.” Wow.

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  • t1kk

    Re Wright’s Travolta piece (which is great stuff), I thought all this arbitrary, egregious RPF conduct and child endangerment was David Miscavige’s fault but now I’m confused because Spanky Taylor says this all happened in 1977, which would have fallen under Hubbard’s tenure. I thought everything was cupcakes and lollipops while Hubbard was in charge but maybe I’m just under the hypnotic spell of Marty’s blog.

    • Observer

      Zing!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Hey now…Be nice to that old red headed con artist. He was a misunderstood mad genius…remember?
      And just because you are batshit crazy doesn’t mean you can’t be brilliant and create one of the best con’s ever….Rinder said so.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Well maybe we’ll all see things better once Rathbun, the genius statistician, gives us the results of his past lives survey. I’m sure the margin of error will be less than 1.1%.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Marty (Karl Pearson Martin Luther) Rathbun?
        He should start posting his “bar charts” on his stats.
        I like crib notes when I get bored.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Mark.O.Plummer Mark Plummer

      LOL!

      • http://www.facebook.com/ToryMagoo44 Tory Christman

        Bingo!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The cupcakes were made from rice and bean leftovers. The lollipops…you don’t want to know, Tikk

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

        I’ll take some LOLpops

    • Cerulean Blu

      Sarcasm detected!

    • Unex Skcus

      Hubbard considered kids to be small adults, so regulary abused them, such as throwing a very young boy into a ship’s filthy and dangerous chain locker for days. He also started overboarding, the RPF etc. Miscavige is just another nasty psychopath following LRH’s “Path to Total Misery”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.ebner Mark Ebner

    Tony – I forget if you’ve ever been blessed to meet the wonderful woman that is Spanky Taylor…

    • TonyOrtega

      If it wasn’t with you, it should have been. But yes, of course.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Hey Mark, sorry to inform you that the SuperPower Grand Opening Party is delayed, but soon, very soon! Oh wait

  • Frankenberry

    I thought Wright’s book was going to expose Cruise’s physical abuse of his own staff. What happened to that?!

    • TonyOrtega

      Clearly, these were just excerpts. The Naz part was reduced to a single sentence, and I have to believe he goes into more depth than that in the full book. Wait for the book before you assume he left something out.

  • John P.

    I think the most interesting part of these articles is the story of Spanky Taylor, which I hadn’t heard before. It sounds like Travolta was reasonably aware of what went on with Taylor’s stint in the RPF, as much as he may have tried to shut it out of his consciousness. If I’m reading the excerpt correctly, it sounds like this is the first clear link that a major celebrity, despite being housed in the “bubble,” is aware of the conditions that some of the staff and lower-level publics are held in. That’s a small, but potentially significant, puncture in the balloon of plausible deniability that the cult tries so hard to construct around its celebrities.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Yep, I had never even heard this name before.
      JT is obviously much more aware of things than we may have thought. Of course the story was kind of strange..he seemed to be attempting to help. But those auditing files of his………..well…talk about holding somebody by the balls.

    • Deckard__Cain

      I think John Travolta knows exactly what he’s dealing with and has known for quite some time. He is trapped and faced with losing contact with his children (and baby son). He is one Sci-celeb that garners my sympathy. All other Sci-celebs deserve derision and suspicion.

      • Anononyourside

        Yes, I agree. Tom Cruise’s reps claim he never reads news articles about the cult, but it is clear he does read articles since he he brought a recent lawsuit against a magazine claiming defamation. So Cruise is fully aware of the abuse and doesn’t care. I think Travolta cares, but is scared for his family and his career. Travolta has never claimed to be number 2 in the cult, but Cruise apparently has. The times are different now than in the 1970s when Travolta first started. The population doesn’t really care about a star’s sexual orientation. I think his career will be destroyed by his connection to prison camps and child abuse unless he breaks from it now. His career will not be destroyed if his audit files are released by Miscavige.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      John,

      I read somewhere(I think it may have come from the Jesse Prince Tapes) that Travolta witnessed the malnourished and mistreated condition of RPF’ers and was visibly appalled by it. He most likely received a ‘handling’ for this. Most celebrities at one time of another must witness the hollow cheekbones and the exhausted looks on these Sea org members, but cognitive dissonance goes to work and it’s back to business as usual for them.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Why do you think I rave on about them so? Whether celebs or Bevery Hillculties, those that have been around as long as they have know very damn well about what happened to the children and families and all about the RPF. And yet they continued to promote it to save their own bottoms and bottom lines. The story about Spanky has been around, but only a few sentences. Every excerpt I’ve seen has been eyebrow raising, exclamating wowzers. What is different now is that mainstream public will be finding out via their fascination with celebs. By the end of 2013, Suri Cruise (and her mom) might be looked up as some kind of hero.

      • Observer

        Once again I’m wishing LRH were here to see how his pearls of wisdom are detonating in his abomination’s face. He was so certain that celebrities were the key to Scn’s acceptance, and for awhile it worked. But Ron the All-Knowing had no idea how the culture would change; actually, going by his orders and Admin “tech” he didn’t seem to think it would change at all. You’d have thought someone as advanced as he would have been able to foresee the rise of the Internet and the havoc it would wreak on his “church”, but nooooo. And now that fascination with celebrities, coupled with the information available on the Internet, is blowing holes in Scientology and boy, are the bilge fumes venting! Very well done, sir!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Yeah, he forgot that some holes have a top And a bottom.

          These celebrities were around the PAC (L.A.) and Flag (Clearwater) areas from way back. These were concentrations of scientology public and staff and Sea Org employees. They witnessed plenty. Sure, most of the worst of the Sea Org was hidden from view, but they met many public and staff over the decades who began to look like death warmed over, including the refugee looking children, and then thousands and thousands that just “disappeared”. They saw and heard Plenty.

          At any time they could have looked and listened, called a press conference, spilled the beans, demanded an investigation. If these celebrities had done that, then not only would Their children be safe, but All the children would have been safe, including the hundreds who have told their mind shattering stories on exscientologykids.net

          • Observer

            Yeah, I’ve done a lot of reading over there. It’s heartbreaking.

          • whingeybingey

            Yeah well they even went in to bat for Scientology over Lisa McPherson’s death. I find that alone unforgivable.

  • Anononyourside

    Has anyone noticed the numbers increasing in Karen Pouw’s denials? She responds to Wright’s Travolta excerpt as saying, “Of the 200 people [Wright] spoke with, only 9 were Scientologists. … Most of the remaining 200 were apostates, many who have shopped similar false claims to the gossip media for years.” I expect shortly she will be saying, “Of the 999,999 people ______ spoke with, only 999 were Scientologists. … Most of the remaining 999,000 were apostates, many who have shopped similar false claims to the gossip media for years”

    • John P.

      Underlying the made-up numbers is the notion that one must be a current, practicing Scientologist in order to have something useful to say about the cult. That is, of course, completely bogus. One pro-Scientology commenter (an “Indie”) a couple days ago asked me what OT level I had reached, in an attempt to discredit my assertion that auditing is ineffective. This seems to be a favorite argument of the cult’s, and it’s a technique employed by many other con artists, quacks, science deniers, etc.

      In the case of Scientology, my disdain for believing in the general usefulness of auditing is fully justified by the fact that proponents of Scientology can produce no studies showing any effectiveness for their techniques, and in fact, can only show a 60-year history of doing their damnedest to keep anyone from performing such a study. In other words, the avoidance of any attempt to look at scientific validity is enough of a smoking gun to reach my conclusion. Note: I have conceded that in specific circumstances, individuals may have gotten significant, positive results from auditing, but point out that this can happen in nearly all modalities of therapy including dropping acid, primal scream therapy, salt-water isolation tanks and all sorts of other stuff. In other words, I acknowledge anecdotal reports of auditing benefits, but emphasize that the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”

      In crazy conspiracy cult land, the cult’s protestation that Wright didn’t talk to Scientologists is akin to “How can you feel yourself qualified to say that UFO’s don’t exist if you have never had an alien anal probe?” If that doesn’t point out the fallacy in the argument, try this: suggest that oncologists must themselves be cancer survivors in order to understand what their patients are going through and render more effective treatment.

      In my world, I don’t need to be a better circuit designer than the guys at Intel to figure out if the next generation of chips is going to succeed in the marketplace. I need to understand a little about circuit design but also need to understand many other disciplines (semiconductor manufacturing, global electronics supply chain economics, trends in devices, and a thousand other things). I need to be independent and not drinking the Kool-Aid of internal corporate presentations to have some unbiased perspective. Some of the guys who got the resurgence of AMD and the failure of Intel’s original 64-bit strategy on Wall Street were former Intel employees who couldn’t let go of years-ago biases from working there. So I’d even go so far as to suggest that Indies might not be such good sources for understanding Scientology craziness; some of them are still drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.

      The random numbers thrown out in the cult’s denials are irrelevant, though they are amusing. It’s better to focus on the fact that they’re using a (weak and obviously bogus) ad hominem attack to try to discredit Wright, one that won’t hold up if you are familiar with it from other contexts. If that’s all the ammunition they have, then they definitely “got no game.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

        You could spend months blowing holes in Scientology’s response. I think that is why Karen Powwhamzoomkablam is generally ignored. The responses are written to serve the cognitive dissonance of the followers of the cult, not so much for normal people.

        • Deckard__Cain

          Derek, I love the continuous plays on Karin PingPowPunchandJudy’s name. We should start a list.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

            Dear Ms. WHACKzoomPOOFzing,

            We ignored everything in your letter.

            However, we couldn’t help but notice how much your name reminds us of a comic book, or the old Batman TV show. Would you be interested in starring in a comic book of your own? We will call it the Super Happy Theta Friends. It will be about people who use their telepathic powers to reserve handicap parking spots for old people.

            Sincerely,

            The Underground

            • Observer

              omg, someone needs to do the comic book!

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

              The first frame would show Mr. Wright writing his book. Then in the next frame it would show Karen writing a letter. Then it would show the mailman delivering the letter to Mr. Wright and then in the next frame it would show “POUW” in that jagged edge frame that they used in the Batman show. Then it would show Mr. Wright with little birdies circling his head.

            • Deckard__Cain

              -=

              Whenever I hear/read the name Pouw, I think of the Joe Pesci “Am I a clown to you, do I make you laugh” scene from ‘Goodfellas’. “Go f*ck your mother…ping pow!”

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMx0VImUtqc

      • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

        alien anal probes, eh?…. that’s a media thesis paper right there!

        in some of my late night postings I came up with funny skits SNL/hidden camera stunts or similar could do…. one I rejected but feel I can share here is where someone from Jackass in disguise [I could only ever imagine a Jackass alumni pulling this one off] goes for his first audit and somehow inserts both cans up his rectum and answers the questions, asking how the needles moving etc. The logistics drove me mad as how this could be done…. have some fake “cans” with some wire to fool the auditor and cause a distraction and pull the switcheroo. I would imagine the final [extraction] reveal would be comedy gold. Come to think of it the Jackasses could have a field day with this cult and hidden cameras.

        That’s the way I roll.

        • grundoon

          That’s OT IX HOLO NOTs you’re talking about, and it’s confidential! Don’t tell me it’s on Wikileaks already?

      • Deckard__Cain

        Scientology’s practices and policies do not stand up to scrutiny, both objective and subjective, both the independent and corporate versions, and they are aware that such a thing as a double blind study would only serve to make their victims see the truth.

        Actual science and logical thinking will pull back the curtain and expose it as a highly organized criminal organization. It can be argued that this group does certain actions similar to a religion but real religions typically stand up to scrutiny and work to benefit the larger community. Scientology does not.

        • Ziontologist

          I’m all for actual science and logical thinking. We all already know how criminal it is.
          What if I said recalling actual memories from this lifetime changes the way I feel? Does that make me an indie?

          I’m just saying that a good person shouldn’t be called a “indie” just for being honest about their experiences, even with something as evil as Scientology.
          A scientist may believe that meditation is beneficial, but that doesn’t make him or her a Buddhist. Just because meditation reduces stress doesn’t prove the validity of reincarnation or other Buddhist principles. Similarly, I think Hubbard stumbled by accident onto some techniques that change the way a person feels, and then he attached his own mumbo-jumbo con-artist explanation to it.
          And that’s my polite description of the subject.
          When all is said and done, we all know it’s actually much worse than that. It’s much worse than something that changes the way you feel, even with a con-artist’s explanation attached to it.
          It is ultimately an expression of pure evil, the desire to dominate and control, without any regard for human dignity.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

            Recalling past events and comparing them to current experiences can possibly help you understand why you may act the way you do. For example, me recalling the fact that Scientology constantly encourages people to eat so as to avoid getting in a bad mood, helped me to understand my propensity for overeating, at least in part.

            I think stating that “remembering things makes you feel better” is oversimplifying the situation. I think its more, “Remembering past events in your life and shining the light of your current experience on them can help you to better understand how you got into your current situation and so open the door to correcting errant or self-destructive behavior.”

            • Ziontologist

              Yes. I agree. Thank you Derek. What you said means a lot to me.
              I have had similar experiences like you described when I audited myself out of the Self Analysis book. And sometimes I felt just generally encouraged or hopeful, because it helped me see my current situation in the context of my whole life. And I love my life … I think that everyone should!
              But I believe at this time that there’s more to it than that, that has to do with memory, consciousness, and how the brain works … all the stuff Hubbard knew nothing about!

          • whingeybingey

            Just my own experience with most of the OTs I knew showed me that they were operating on a more crippled level in life than the average “wog” such as my mother in the public service or my sister working at a music store. The only other place I have seen this effect almost as pronounced is in my local Mensa group.

            • Ziontologist

              I could have joined Mensa, years ago … based on my SAT scores, I could have joined without having to take the test.
              But I heard it was mostly guys sitting around playing board games.(Spy Magazine did a great article on that!)
              And besides, I really don’t think of myself as being a true genius … though I would be happy to hear that you are!

              How did Mensa remind you of OT? Did they have unrealistic expectations of themselves that they couldn’t live up to?

            • whingeybingey

              No, they were just really smart people who were often crippled in life like the OT public I knew when on staff. However, it was a small group. They were very nice, though. Really sweet people. One was a Catholic priest who was interested in the occult. He was quite fascinating. But mainly just really sweet geeky people but not what you would look at out in the world and go “Gee, they’re a success! I want to be just like them!” Obviously there are high achievers, particularly at a national level, but yeah, they reminded me of the “OTs” I knew, except they were more likeable.

            • Midwest Mom

              Trust me, Zi – you’re not missing anything. It’s not worth the yearly membership dues. Imagine a cocktail party where the big topic of conversation is your I.Q. and which I.Q. test or tests you took. If you find an I.Q. twin, be prepared for them to attempt to prove that their I.Q. scores are actually higher.

              At this point, you are bored and while there are a few friendly people there, the rest remind you of the people who always asked you how you did on every test or assignment and wrote it down in their notebook and they are also the ones who remind you of the people who used to stare at you in the dorm cafeteria and would count how many times you chewed your food (and told you what the mean, median and mode were for the number of chews per food item, which I sill think is creepy after all these years).

              I had more fun at a narcolepsy support group meeting I attended once, and most of the people there were asleep.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well, he was right about the board games though.

            • whingeybingey

              Lol, yes! I am really bad at board games so I never went to the board games nights. I did often enjoy the dinners, though, partial as I am to a nice meal and a glass of wine.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ditto. I never could sit still long enough to play chess. It’s a game I love the idea of….and that is quite enough …
              Tic TAC toe is more my speed.

            • whingeybingey

              Yes, me too. I have a great Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse chess set that I never get to use. I wanted the Alice in Wonderland one but that was hundreds of dollars. Sigh. I also never have the patience to try and keep track of what’s come out in card games. One “ooh shiny” and it’s gone!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ooh my god…are we related?

            • Midwest Mom

              You two went to more than one get-together? My first was my last. I still have nightmares.

            • whingeybingey

              Lol! I do feel for you. It sounds awful!!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Only a couple of times and my friend Becky made me. She is an Aspie and she is socially awkward.
              I found it to be a couple of aging snobby Shit heads and what looked like a combination of the high school math and drama club.

            • whingeybingey

              I guess I was relatively lucky. They were actually quite a welcoming, close-knit, supportive group and not at all snobby. I still didn’t go often because they weren’t exactly thrilling people – not the kind of people you’d stay up all night talking to and watch the sun rise.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That last sentence is a perfect summation.

            • whingeybingey

              Lol, probably! Hopefully actually! : )

            • Midwest Mom

              I want to be a professional “Go Fish” player. Maybe Vince van Patten can do commentary on “The International House of Pancake’s ‘Go Fish Sweepstakes”.

              Vince: “Midwest Mom is looking very composed. She’s wearing her lucky angora sweater. She seems to be putting down some 2′s – wait … yes! 2′s! What a play!”

            • whingeybingey

              :rofl: Sometimes I do win at Go Fish, but I doubt anyone would have much chance against the lucky angora sweater!

          • grundoon

            You may consider yourself an “independent Scientologist,” or “indie,” if you self-identify as a Scientologist but don’t recognize the spiritual authority of the Church of Scientology. Many have chosen this label proudly for themselves (http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/268-the-indie-500.html), including, I think, the person mentioned in John P’s comment. It’s not pejorative.

            If a study is “double blind,” that means it is carefully set up so that conscious or unconscious biases cannot materially affect the results.

            • Ziontologist

              What if I “communicate.” Does that make me an “indie?”
              What if I engaged in reflection, or meditation. Does that mean I believe in “engrams” or “body thetans?”

      • Ziontologist

        At least you admit that you are skeptical about auditing. So am I, and I liked some forms of auditing!
        Your being skeptical doesn’t give you the right to draw conclusions about something you have next to no understanding of, let alone any experience with.
        I’m not defending Scientology. I’m just saying there’s enough wrong with it without making shit up about it based on your own biases or lack of experience. What’s the point of that?

        • whingeybingey

          Well, you don’t know either. Define “work”. How do you operationalise that definition? How do you measure it? How do you decide what is attributable to a process versus an electrical current passed through a body or the value of having a person willing to listen? Since the “processes” are not based on any body of research then people have every right to draw the conclusion that something invented by a conman with no supporting literature is more likely NOT to “work” than the other way round. People claiming something works have the responsibility for proving it, not the other way round.

          • Ziontologist

            I think I did enough of my own experimenting to form an intuitive opinion.
            For instance, I’ve worked full time as a musician, and I would audit myself before I played.
            I experimented with Self Analysis, and the old Power …the one they discontinued because it was making people think for themselves … with no e-meter, and I stayed away from past lives.
            The auditing definitely helped me the most when I hadn’t done it in a while.
            It helped a lot when I did it every other day, and not much more by doing it every day … I think it has to do with my brain, and staying creative … I would say I benefited from it, but even so, it’s not the answer to everything!

            • whingeybingey

              I’m not denying people have anecdotal “wins”. I’ve had auditing too, but my never-Scientologist family and friends are doing much better in life. I think the fact that there have been many “great” “wog” musicians and no “great” Scientology musicians is telling. The same for all the arts really.

            • Cerulean Blu

              There have been no “great” scientology “anybodies.” They are anti-education, so we will never see one.

            • Ziontologist

              Now you’re insulting me.

              You have no clue what kind of musician I am, Scientology or otherwise.

              I could mention Chick Corea, but I shouldn’t have to. Besides, some of my favorite Chick Corea was when he was still on drugs, playing with Miles Davis.

              I would say that most Scientologists who tried to create a Scientology-based music instruction system did not produce great results.

              But I know some ex-Scientologists who are as good as they come. What about Mike Garson, who plays with David Bowie? He improvises classical music on the piano, and it fits perfectly with what the rock guys in the band play … it’s really something.

            • whingeybingey

              So how am I insulting you? How did you not just agree with what I said? Pre-Scientology and post-Scientology their art is better – is that not what you’ve said? And if you think you’re a great musician fine – as you said I have no idea. Also, I didn’t say people lose all their talent once they join Scientology, although it could be argued that they don’t do their best work during Scientology. But if you want to be insulted that’s your choice. It wasn’t intended that way.

            • Ziontologist

              Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you say, ” I think the fact that there have been many “great” “wog” musicians and no “great” Scientology musicians is telling. The same for all the arts really.”

            • whingeybingey

              Yes, and the insult was…?

            • Ziontologist

              You are contradicting yourself.

              First you said there have been no great Scientology musicians.

              False.

              Then you said, ” Pre-Scientology and post-Scientology their art is better – is that not what you’ve said?”

              No, I never said that. I said that SOME of my favorite Chick Corea music was from when he was still on drugs, playing with Miles.

              Then you said, “it could be argued that they don’t do their best work during Scientology.”

              OK. Where’s your argument? I’d love to hear it.
              I could argue either side of that … because musical talent sometimes manifests itself when you least expect it. But you offered no argument at all, just a misinterpretation of what I said.

              Are you sure you went to Mensa?

            • whingeybingey

              Wow, who is insulting whom? I do not claim to be an expert on music and would have been happy to have that discussion. I might have learned something. My apologies for offending your sensibilities or stating the fact that I personally have never heard of a great Scientologist musician. Although, this does not mean there definitively aren’t any it seems that Midwest Mom has also not heard of any. Frankly if the tech works so well for artists you would expect them to be streets above mere “wogs”. Instead you often get work such as …

            • whingeybingey

            • whingeybingey

              Yeah, well I guess it depends on what you consider great. If you asked somebody “Name a great musician” the first name they are going to think of is Chick Correa? I am going to start asking people. Name a great artist etc. Then count the number of Scientologists mentioned.

            • 1subgenius

              Name a great Scientologist scientist, doctor, lawyer, statesman, or athlete.

              Crickets.

              Somehow the only Scientologists of public note are musicians and actors.
              And actually there are relatively extremely few of those. Extremely few.
              Hmmmm.

              Degustibus non est disputandum.

            • whingeybingey

              Kendrick Moxon… lol!

            • grundoon

              Scientist? David Gann

              Doctors? Janis Johnson, David Minkoff

              Lawyer? Greta Van Susteren

              Statesman? Sonny Bono

              Athlete? David Mayo

            • sugarplumfairy

              Sure people feel better after auditing.. It must feel awesome to have some silence and peace after being yelled at and interrogated for a few hours..

              And dont forget Beck.. He’s an amazing musician.. One of my favorite songs is one of his:

              http://vimeo.com/5741495

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well I really love Buddy Guy, Keith Richards and Derek Trucks…and I really hope none of them was ever a clam!

            • 1subgenius

              There are numerous reports of people faking “cognitions” or “wins” just to make it stop.
              Kinda like the moron who hit himself in the head with a hammer because it felt so good when he stopped.

            • Cerulean Blu

              You are basically doing biofeedback (an incredibly advanced science these days) using a crappy 1960′s technology lie detector. Screw the e-meter, get a real modern biofeedback device, it will only cost you $100 and you can skip the Hubbard insanity.

            • Midwest Mom

              I suggest playing the game “Operation”. If Cavity Sam’s nose lights up and you hear a buzzing sound, then you might be stressed out or going through D.T.’s. If you you can take out the funny bone flawlessly, you are coolio..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I suggest Haldol.
              In fact, if anyone has any, can I please have one!
              And a margarita?

            • Cerulean Blu

              Not a good mix!! Or, perhaps a very good mix…. I guess it depends.

            • Midwest Mom

              I had to look up Haldol (thanks Google). I do have Margarita Mix! (3/4 full – left over from New year’s Eve). and a couple of sock monkeys.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Lol Mom!

            • grundoon

              The last time we let you have margaritas and Haldol, you gave back my teddy bear with slobber all over it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Damn, I was hoping you forgot.

            • 1subgenius

              Sorry to break it to you, that was not slobber.

            • 1subgenius

              Groucho Marx claimed a young girlfriend of his was fond of a drink that was like a chocolate covered Seconal.
              I like him.

            • Cerulean Blu

              You dissing my biofeedbackin? hehe

            • Ziontologist

              Reread what I said. You didn’t get it, or if you did, you are contradicting yourself.

            • Midwest Mom

              Zi – you are a talented musician because of you! You are inquisitive and determined and respectful of your mother and Hubbard has nothing to do with that at all.

              Let’s say you take your mother to a museum and talk to her about art and ask her about favorite memories from her childhood. The communication is not enhanced by anything you learned from Scientology. It’s lovely and meaningful because you are taking the time to listen and interact with someone with respect. Isn’t that what your mother taught you?

              You don’t need auditing tools to have meaningful conversations. Patience and a genuine interest in others is the key. Also, you don’t have to prove you’re right all of the time and challenge so much. I know how you feel, but with regard to different subjects. It’s not imperative to be right all of the time. It creates stress, stress creates anger, and anger creates…well it creates Yoda-isms apparently, because I am talking like Yoda. Are you happy now? I am talking like Yoda!

              Peace out, Zi Scout!

            • Ziontologist

              I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being honest about my own subjective experiences, even with something as evil as Scientology.

            • Midwest Mom

              Zi, Life isn’t about “wins” in evaluating your past and present. It’s about making the most of your strengths, accepting your weaknesses without dwelling on them, and appreciating the good we can find in even the little things, despite the bad.

              You have an assignment. No arguing! {I am doing a Jedi mind trick on you – let me know if it works. :) } – You are going to get information on colleges in your area and you are going to find out as much as you can about going back to school to pursue your interest in science.

              Easy enough, right? Just do it! You need to stop regretting your past decisions and need to put stock in yourself by pursuing your field of interest. You have no excuses. Just click on some sites for some schools near you and then find out some information, then speak to an admissions counselor at the college you hope to attend. (Can you tell that in my past, I was an admissions counselor for a university?)

              You need to do this, Zi.

              Go on now! Get off of this blog and get on to those college sites!

              MwM

            • DeElizabethan

              Bless you MM. You have such a wonderful way. I’m a bit more cynical and have arrived at the conclusion that Z is a professional. That’s just me however and hope to be wrong. All I know is that there is something very wrong as the vacillation is prominent.

            • 1subgenius

              “Reread what I said.”

              I’d rather be the only woman on a Greek freighter.

            • http://www.facebook.com/dianne.lipson Dianne Lipson

              It looks to me like auditing is more like hypnotic regression therapy and the OT levels are biofeedback.

            • 1subgenius

              The use of the e-meter is mostly symbolic, as an intimidation device in the brainwashing process.

        • Cerulean Blu

          “But your (sic) being skeptical doesn’t give you the right to draw conclusions
          about something you have next to no understanding of, let alone any
          experience with.”

          I have to dispute your statement. Academics, scientists, all varieties of specialists draw factually correct conclusions without personal experience. Must a neurologist catch a case of encephalitis to properly understand it?

          “this can happen in nearly all modalities of therapy including dropping acid, primal scream therapy, salt-water isolation tanks”

          To equate auditing with any other form of placebo, talk therapy, drug experiences, etc. is entirely justifiable and extremely pertinent. You are too quick to judge and dismiss such an accurate assessment. There is no evidence that auditing is superior to sugar pills or simply having a nice chat with a friend, or a bar of chocolate. A lot of things make us feel good. Human nature is to freely share the ones that inspire feelings of religiosity.

          • whingeybingey

            What he/she said!

        • John P.

          Ziontologist, whenever you tee of on me, you seem to have a way of embarrassing yourself. Some of your recent comments have been constructive and interesting, even when I haven’t wholly agreed with them. But when you try to discredit me, it merely tends to reflect poorly on you.

          You start off by shooting yourself in the foot. I, like anyone else, have the right to draw whatever conclusions I want about whatever I wish to, and to express those conclusions if I choose to do that. It’s that whole First Amendment thing that you may recall from grade school civics classes. You may not like what I say, but that’s a very different issue from whether I have the right to say it. Starting off with confusion on basic concepts like that makes it hard for most people to listen intently to the rest of what you have to say.

          To the heart of your argument: you have stumbled into the classic confusion I have commented on elsewhere today: experience as an auditor (or as a PC) is not actually necessary to be able to determine whether auditing works in a scientifically valid sense. I used to work with a guy who, in his spare time, was a figure skating judge at the national and international level. He had no hope of ever doing a triple toe loop, but was eminently qualified by virtue of rigorous training to rate people who could. The converse is also true: few figure skating champs go on to be judges after their careers have ended.

          The key criterion in being able to judge whether auditing works or not is the ability to ask the obvious question: if auditing works in a scientifically valid manner, where are the studies that show how often it is effective under what circumstances? And, once found, are those studies valid? I have done enough science and enough evaluation of scientific studies to be able to make those calls; there are millions of people with enough math/stat background and sufficiently honed bullshit detectors who could do the same. I have been trained in this by leaders in the field, and I bet my job every time I endorse or call bullshit on a study.

          There is no absolute certainty, but my conclusion is highly likely to be correct: any self help discipline purporting to offer significant benefits in mood, long-term mental health, etc. but which has aggressively resisted any sort of attempts to quantify its effectiveness for over 60 years must, prima facie be presumed to be unlikely to be effective (at best, and fraudulent quackery at worst). Prozac wouldn’t have gotten on the market without numerous studies of how often it was effective, and under what circumstances. Remember, Scientology has made the most extraordinary claim of effectiveness imaginable: “Scientology works 100% of the time when applied standardly.” Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof; the only thing extraordinary here is the degree to which the cult has tried to keep scientists interested in studying auditing from doing so.

          Further evidence reducing the likelihood that auditing is scientifically valid: Polygraph technologies have evolved in the 70 years since Volney Mathison threw together some components to make his e-meter, but they still aren’t considered reliable enough, after decades of improvement and infinitely better training of operators, to be the sole source of proof in court. If auditing is not based on valid equipment, then results in auditing are bounded by the skill of the auditor, which can vary significantly. That means a scientifically valid study that correlates auditors’ experience levels with the degree of “win” is essential.

          You seem to be focused on hanging on to the “wins” you got out of your time in the cult, since all your personal attacks on me since you started commenting under this “handle” seem to have been triggered by my comments doubting the effectiveness of auditing.

          My assertion that auditing is not scientifically proven to be effective is not the same thing as saying that auditing fails 100% of the time. I have acknowledged that some people do get “wins” from auditing that really do change their lives. But that’s anecdotal evidence until those “wins” are tallied in an appropriately rigorous scientific format. A bunch of “wins” does not equal scientific validity. You are trying to attack me to defend your “wins” in auditing, but I am not trying to take those “wins” away from you. I am saying that, regardless of what benefits you saw, if auditing is not measured in a scientific study with appropriate controls, that one cannot make any general statements about auditing.

          And the lack of scientific measurement of Scientology auditing, and the utter lack of development of other similar forms of electronically assisted psychotherapy in the last 60 years, points strongly to the fact that auditing doesn’t work reliably against a large enough percentage of the population to be an effective technique. That is true regardless of the amount or the significance of the “wins” that individuals have experienced anecdotally.

          Some people claim to have gotten major “wins” from taking LSD, floating in sensory deprivation tanks, or any of a host of other practices. Without studying those scientifically, no one can say whether those anecdotal claims of big “wins” are random rolls of the dice or are data points that could support a finding of scientific validity. Incidentally, I have both dropped acid and floated in sensory deprivation tanks (though not at the same time); I got some interesting “wins” from one, and thought the other was unsafe, and I don’t believe either one is a scientifically valid treatment, despite the “wins” I got.

          Why is scientific validation important? Would you take a cancer drug that had not been approved by the FDA, and that did not have even the tiniest hint of pre-clinical research suggesting it might actually work?

          You end on a particularly low note that damages your credibility still further. Where in this discussion am I “making shit up?” Are there tons of studies by reputable practitioners using valid methodologies that I accidentally missed or deliberately overlooked? Am I the first person to suggest that “extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof” and, by corollary, that the lack of proof of extraordinary claims implies a high likelihood that those claims turn out to be false?

          If you’re going to attack me, you’ll have to do better than this sort of circular logic and accusation. I normally don’t want to waste time going down the rathole that arguing with you has proven to be, but I want to illustrate to the other readers of this blog the logical fallacies that one gets into when one wants to believe something and doesn’t understand the difference between anecdotal success stories (no matter how personally impactful they may be) and scientifically validated theories. These two things live in different domains, though they might seem to be in opposition to one another.

          • Ziontologist

            I don’t think I am embarassing myself at all. I am being both intelligent and sincere. It is sad to me when people don’t get that, but that’s the world we live in.
            You are assuming the worst about me. Judging by your response, it seems you don’t have much confidence in my applying the scientific method to my own life experiences. There’s not much I can say about that, without saying things the way I say them, and I can see you don’t like that.
            I was a biology major in college … OK, I’m not the smartest person in the world, but I think I have a clue about the requirements of scientific proof.
            Fair enough?

            • Cerulean Blu

              Just curious Zion,

              In your quest for wisdom, have you ever read any other philosophies, like buddhism, existentialism, hinduism, taoism, transcendentalism, platonism, or nondualism?

            • Ziontologist

              For sure. All of those, and more.
              I like cognitive science, which is a combination of cognitive psychology and brain science.
              I love philosophy. But as brilliant as some philosophers were, they didn’t know what is known today about the brain.
              I think that there are some old philosophical arguments which need to be re-visited in light of this new information. There are some old ideas which go even deeper in light of what is now known about the brain, and some that don’t … I find that interesting.

            • whingeybingey

              Well, you won’t mind posting your results then if you truly applied the “scientific method”.

            • 1subgenius

              Anyone remember “Ask Dr. Science” on NPR?
              “He knows more than you do.”
              “I have a Masters degree. In science!”

            • grundoon
          • N. Graham

            IMO, I think a lot of the “success” of auditing is perceived when having to recount the “wins” attained during the session. If one thinks of some, it affirms them more. It not, one will exaggerate or fabricate some wins and perhaps subconsciously convince themselves to believe the fabrication.

        • John P.

          Two additional comments, given that you edited and expanded your comment.

          1) When I first started to study Scientology, I quickly concluded that the organization is evil and must be stopped. I did not form an opinion on auditing immediately. Given that any single psychiatric medicine would be outstanding if successful in only half the patients it’s given to, I figured that if auditing were successful 25% of the time, there might be some value to it. As time went on, and as I learned more about auditing, I became less convinced that it would be successful even 25% of the time. And the lack of scientific study of the validity of either specific techniques or of the entire practice is telling — I waited to be certain about this long before I opened my mouth.

          2) I am usually extremely clear about expressing my level of confidence in a conclusion. That’s my capitalist training at work — when something happens in the market where a stock we own starts to plummet quickly, management always wants to know what’s going on. You have to couch everything you say carefully in words that indicate clearly your level of certainty. If you’re guessing, that’s OK, but it’s a career-threatening move to present your guess as proven fact. I believe that I represent my comments in this forum as well. In particular, I am careful to clarify a speculative thought from a conclusion that I would put serious money behind. So as I said in my longer post, if you think I am making stuff up, as the Anons say, “Dox or STFU.”

          • Ziontologist

            I never questioned your expertise about picking stock. But you do say some speculative things from time to time that don’t jive with my own personal experience. When that’s the case, I think it’s fair for me to rate my own experience at least as highly as someone else’s speculating or guessing.

            • John P.

              That’s fair. If you are concerned that I may be speculating or guessing, the best way to address that is to point out constructively where the specific flaws in my argument are, rather than talking about whether I have the right to say something, or whether I am making stuff up. Those are basically slight variants on name-calling.

              It is also important to lay out the affirmative points that you use to make your counter-argument as clearly and in as much detail as possible so that people reading both sides of the conversation might be able to come to a useful synthesis of the best of both sides.

              In discussions about the validity of auditing over the last several months, I have acknowledged that many people have experienced positive results in auditing. I have not said that people who experienced positive results from auditing were wrong — that what they thought was a “win” was a “lose.” Others have said exactly that.

              My point is that no matter how significant the value you got from your auditing experience, and no matter how verifiable those results were, they do not establish the scientific validity of auditing unless those data points are part of a properly designed statistical model. A model accurately predicts the probabilities of certain effects occurring across a population. A well constructed model for Scientology auditing will account for dependent variables, so it will be possible to predict that people with no prior experience in self-improvement techniques get 30% more wins than people who practiced other self-help disciplines, or whatever. This is similar to how a model predicting heart attacks in 50-year old men will account for smoking and cholesterol levels in their predictions.

              The data point is not the model, just like the map is not the terrain (which I think is a Scientology saying). in other words, scientific validity across a population and the validity of an individual data point are very different things. I have tried as best I can to be very clear about this distinction, which I think does a reasonable job of what you ask — accounting for the apparent conflict between what I believe to be true and what your experience has meant in your life.

              In other words, I think I have done a better job respecting the role of auditing “wins” in individual experience, because I have not invalidated those wins. In fact, if you read my comments today in this blog, they have presumed that people’s personal experiences in auditing are valid. I have simply pointed out what is mathematically correct: those data points, no matter how meaningful or significant they are to you, are not sufficient to prove that auditing is an effective technique across a broad population because they aren’t quantified and because they’re not put into a properly designed trial. That is a different thing entirely.

            • Cerulean Blu

              Another great post, JP.

              I’d be curious to find out if any of those scilon “wins” were cognitively significant (rather than simple emotional). I doubt it, but remain open to learning about the aftermath of hubbard’s insanity.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              If you take Hubbard out of memory regression, and don’t call positive progress a win…remove all scientology and run a very similar process ..no emeter…then you are getting into a different territory.
              Now you are getting into psychological processes that have been tested and have proven effective. An emotionally positive reaction is still a positive.
              But of course then it is no longer Scientology auditing.
              I am not defending Z. here, this is my thoughts on the subject.
              As far as these being cognitively significant, I guess that depends on the perspective of the patient/customer.
              If you mean cognitively significant as in measurable structural brain changes like the London Taxi drivers showing increased size in the hypothalamus due to large amount of memory they expended mapping out and memorizing the road systems…then we are talking apples and oranges.
              Just my two cents.

            • Cerulean Blu

              Interesting response. Yes, I am interested in measurable cognitive changes, such as psychologic tests or radiographic results, like fMRI.

              I don’t buy in to the “feel good” result, unless it is quantified in a placebo randomized trial.

              However, I will go out on a limb and be a hypocrit. If someone (like me) says they have experienced kundalini syndrome, but have centuries of similar documented experiences to back it up, then I guess that’s a grey area of human experience.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I had to look up Kundalini Syndrome. I had never heard of it. I didn’t read much, but I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And yes, I think any persons subjective experience is a bit of a grey area. I have never had a NDE…would prefer not too…

              But I have had many OBE’s, Sleep Paralysis, etc….to the point of actually experimenting with trying to control them, etc. I can tell you that “my reality” of an OBE was pretty fucking fierce….sorry, that is the best way I can describe them.

              Honestly, I don’t know that all cognitive experience’s are measurable. At least with our “current” technology. But then think about 30-40 years ago and how far we have come. At some point in the near future we may have very different tools for measurement that are more esoteric, yet equally valid as some of the current measures.

              By the way, I know this conversation went totally off topic, but I have found it quite stimulating and engaging.

            • 1subgenius

              They are hypnotized to think they had a win.
              Poof!

            • Ziontologist

              I am sorry if I suggested you have no right to say what you have to say, but now it sounds like you you are saying that to me.
              Even if I experienced something being audited, I have also wondered many times what percentage of the population would have had the same reaction.
              I audited my mom once from the Self Analysis book. I told her we were going to remember some pleasant memories, that’s all.
              After about 20 minutes of non-stop, back to back recall, she had an epiphany. My mom was all a-glow! (this was too weird!)
              I thought about this alot.
              First of all, my mom and my sister haven’t always gotten along, but my mom really does her best not to argue with her. Ever.
              The thing she remembered in session was from before I was born. My mom remembered explaining to my 10 month old sister not to touch the stove. My sister silently looked back at my mom, and my mom was sure she understood! She couldn’t get over it!
              Why did this memory produce such a dramatic reaction in my mom? I think it’s because of her love for her family, and because of all the cognitive dissonance she’s endured over the years, trying not to argue with her kids. The memory reaffirmed her love for us all, including herself, and how uncomplicated that love was, when she was just starting out as a mom! It put her in a great mood, and for me, it was interesting experiment.

            • whingeybingey

              What was the experiment?

            • 1subgenius

              Right. If that’s his definition of an experiment, then the debate can end here.

            • Deckard__Cain

              “I think I have done a better job respecting the role of auditing “wins” in individual experience, because I have not invalidated those wins.”

              I will second this, having followed JP’s comments for over a year on the subject of Scientology. In my opinion, he gives too much credence to the small (and purely anecdotal) numbers claiming to have ‘wins’ with auditing because the practice is dangerous psuedo-science and quackery therapy in the hands of the untrained/unqualified. But for the sake of discussion, JP puts this practice in the proper context of other types of “therapies” and known success rates, and analyzes the topic at hand with a broad overview which derives at logical conclusions.

            • Ziontologist

              I don’t owe JohnP anything.
              You make it sound like us exes who have the teneruty to discuss our wins owe it to John for letting us get away with it.
              JohnP is better than most haters on this blog who are incapable of having an intelligent conversation about Scientology. Those haters are bad, and Rodeo is even worse.
              I used to post on Rodeo, as Flunk, and you can keep it. It’s garbage.
              ANY anecdotal evidence is still far superior than none at all.
              If you assume a person is wrong, because they have a little bit different take on the experience of being a Scientologist than someone who was never “in”, how do you explain that except as intellectual bigotry?
              JohnP knows better than me? About Scientology? I’ve seen no evidence of that, anecdotal or otherwise.
              People like you are responsible for more evil in this world than any Scientologist. You create evil where it didn’t even exist by attacking someone like me just for knowing something about the subject.
              It’s not enough for you that Scientology is bad and should be destroyed. You have to take it a step further, and invalidate people who are just being sincere about their experiences with the subject, and who know more about it than you or JohnP. Your involvement fighting Scientology goes way out of bounds when you attack people like myself.
              You JohnP’s speculation and guess work above someone who knows they’re talking about?
              Pretty lame!

            • Deckard__Cain

              I never said you owed anyone anything. From reading your posts here, I’ve noticed that you have a penchant of assigning meanings to statements that are what I believe to be counter-intuitive and you quickly go for the ad hominem attacks with others’ statements you vehemently disagree with. I’m sorry if you took offense as that was not my intention to invalidate your wins but to state an opinion about Scientology’s practices.based on professional opinions I’ve read by judges and professional opinions given to me first hand by multiple doctors, mental health experts and psychiatrists.

              Sorry that you felt the need to leave the Rodeo, but it is not a spot for everyone’s exact tastes and I understand why you would not want to hang around there. I wish you well and hopefully we can have discussions about this topic and leave the flame throwing to the OSA trolls.

            • Ziontologist

              Thank you for your thoughtful and considerate reply.

              I don’t entirely agree with your assessment of my behavior, but perhaps it’s because you don’t know me very well, just as I don’t you.

              It frustrates me that I know a musician who’s still “in” …and he’s an excellent musician. I wish I could shake him out of it.

              But when people go ad hominem on me, I don’t know what to say, except to say those things I know are true.

              I have from time to time told certain people that are close to me about my experiences in Scientology. I try to explain how I think it works – how it draws people “in”, and what it takes to get them “out.” I get good reviews when I’ve shared that info. I’ve been told my story is fascinating. But here on this blog I’ve been called a troll and worse. It’s sick.

              And it’s not like I left Scientology and became a Moonie.
              Even though I’m a musician, I was a biology major in college, and once I left Scientology I renewed my fascination with brain science.
              I don’t know any other ex-Scientologist who dId that.

              Brain science is anathema to Scientologists. It goes against everything they believe in. Amazingly, with all the exes I know who hate Scientology, I don’t know a single one, other than myself, who ever cracked open a book about the brain.

              Brain science is SO the opposite of Scientology, in so many ways and on so many levels.

              I had some good experiences in Scientology, and plenty bad.

              I remember very well how auditing made me feel, how being sec checked made me feel, as well as many other things from my Scientology experience.

              Now I look at those things from the viewpoint of cognitive science, as I would any subjective psychological experience, and look how people attack me for that.

              It doesn’t make sense to me.

              I never made any supernatural claims, and I said more than once that I never had any auditing that I thought was the answer to everything, the way Scientologists believe.

              I have always been against Scientology when I post. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to lie about my own subjective experience, just because no one else tells a similar story. That would be a mistake.

              I admit that sometimes I’ve lost my temper, and I’ve apologized for that.
              But apologies don’t count for much with this crowd.
              This crowd wants to hear that Scientology is the dumbest, stupidest thing imaginable, and then laugh about it.
              I can dig that. I do it myself sometimes.
              But that will never explain what actually happens to a person when they become a Scientologist.

            • Deckard__Cain

              Ziontologist, I can completely relate to you on more levels than you realize (I was a music major for the first 3 years of college and stopped that because I despise performing and I played classical piano, which is an important instrument when performing in an ensemble so I was in high demand for that reason, and I hated it) and I also get rather flame-y with my posts and thoughts when it comes to this very emotionally charged topic. I apologize if I insulted you; I really didn’t mean to do that.

              After watching many, many hours of lectures by Steve Hassan, ex-Mormons, ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses (I am close to one so I’ve had first hand stories), and being close to a family that lost a loved one in Heaven’s Gate, I know how easy it is to get sucked into a group like Scientology. I didn’t have that opinion when I first started reading into all of this, but I do now. But there are individual gains and emotional ties to consider, which don’t typically get a lot of consideration in scientific studies.

              I do value your input and the input of everyone here except for the silly OSA bots that don’t even read the posted story. Well, OK, I did enjoy Marcotai for awhile but he was an amusing chew toy because ‘Marcotai’ was multiple people posting on the Village Voice under the same name.

              But my point is that I sometimes go a little too much hardcore on the meta-effects of Scientology as known/suspected by the mental health field and that is a stance that I should pose in moderation a little better. And I do appreciate your input in telling me so.

              Thanks for the reply, and I hope you’ll stick around.

            • DeElizabethan

              Funk!

            • 1subgenius

              When you were in did you know that you were being brainwashed?

              “People like you are responsible for more evil in this world than any Scientologist…”
              Uh, no.

            • Ziontologist

              I am talking about “haters” as a group. I hope that’s not too abstract a concept, but people who prefer to hate than understand create a lot of evil in this world.
              It may start out with some kind of justification, but then they get carried away.

            • Ziontologist

              JohnP – “The map is not the territory” is an Alfred Korzybski quote.
              Polish Count Alfred Korzybski wrote the book “General Semantics.”
              I admire his work, along with Suzanne Langer’s – they did their work in the 1940′s, but in light of new discoveries in cognitive science, many consider there work to be prescient.
              Korzybski’s work is pretty dense. On Amazon, it seems that people who can put his work into everyday language out sell Korzybski himself.
              In “Messiah or Madman”, they talk about Korzybski’s influence on Hubbard, but it’s heady stuff …
              http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski

            • Ze Moo

              Add A.E. Van Vogt to the list of authors who Korzybski influenced. Van Vogt’s sci-fi ‘Worlds of Null-A” books tried to popularize Korzybski. Van Vogt was also an early investor in Dianetics and he eventually had a huge falling out with Lron. It seems Lron screwed Van Vogt out of a lot of money.

              Korzybski’s ideas culminated in Esperanto, a made up language that was supposed to become the ‘universal’ language for all mankind.

              “Korzybski is remembered as the author of the dictum: “The map is not the territory”. Alfred just defined ‘cognitive dissonance’ in other terms before anyone else did.

              Korzybski’s work is an odd footnote to the 1950′s, but I think more people speak Klingon then Esperanto…..

            • 1subgenius
            • BuryTheNuts2

              Whoa, This is a really interesting article. I only read the first four pages or so, but then printed it.
              There is some valuable data here.

              Thanks!

            • 1subgenius

              It is one of the most useful studies (speaking of actual scientific research) in understanding human nature.
              Makes such common sense. Stupid people are too stupid to know how stupid they are.
              So they think they know everything.
              Interesting that they think they are very humorous, and aren’t.
              I know someone who actually started doing open mic comedy, and fancied a career in it.
              “Why did the chicken cross the road? Because it had hens teeth.”
              I shit you not she thought this was extremely funny.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well, that bad joke makes me feel better. At least I know I am funnier than that.

              God I hope!

              Because that truly was suckus!

            • 1subgenius

              And its not even a joke. Just random words strung together.
              I am disappointed I didn’t get a chance to video her “act” because the real humor was in how un-funny she was.

        • EnthralledObserver

          My simple response to this is: prove that it was the ‘auditing’ that gave you your wins. You can’t, and furthermore you can’t even infer from any official, documented research that ‘results’ gained by others concurrently offer proof of the fact that the ‘wins’ you gained were likely caused by auditing, because they don’t exist.
          Let’s have a look at this stuff objectively.
          What I want to know is – why haven’t “indies” or “ex-es” with auditing knowledge and skills already started these studies????

        • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

          “I’m not defending Scientology”

          er, derp….. dude… you are!…

          you can’t cherry pick bits to suit your argument.

          in essence you’re using the “at least the made the trains run on time” Nazi/Mussolini rhetoric

          … and when you have to resort to saying things like “I don’t think I am embarassing myself at all. I am being both intelligent and sincere” you’ve entered the wonderful world of double foot-in-mouth ego masturbation which you’ve pretty much been called out for and pwnd big time.

          I’d quit before you embarrass yourself further.

          • Ziontologist

            Sorry, media lush. You’re a talented guy, but just you don’t get me.

            “you can’t cherry pick bits to suit your argument’

            What argument would that be? That Ziontologist liked remembering things, and therefore Scientology is great?

            Am I making that argument?

            Context is everything if you are to make the correct inferences, and the inferences you made about me are wrong.

            Sorry.

            I mean, yeah, you’re entitled to your opinion, and you don’t have to like me, but could you come up with a reason not to like me that at least reflects who I actually am and what I’m saying???

            I’m sure you’ll think of something, bitch!

            • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

              You’ve embarrassed yourself further, lulz

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

          “how do go from being open minded to making comparisons between getting audited and dropping acid, primal scream therapy or any of that other stuff??” That IS being open-minded. Why are you so close-minded about dropping acid or primal scream therapy? I had important “wins” from acid, and while I don’t know anybody who’s done primal screaming, I have no trouble believing that some people have gotten value from that too, otherwise how would it have caught on at all?

        • jensting

          So, you’ve dropped acid? Otherwise, are you just making things up about it?

          • 1subgenius

            “….the topic you want to stop everyone else from discussing….”

            Bingo.

        • grundoon

          Hi, Z. You are trying to come to the defense of Scientology – criticizing its critics – while at the same time you say it is evil and exploitive. You deny the right of others to speculate or draw conclusions from incomplete knowledge, while at the same time you make generalizations about the “indies” (all are misguided) and the whole of Scientology (pure evil in all of its parts). You seem confused. Did you notice you have been contradicting yourself?

          • 1subgenius

            “Did you notice you have been contradicting yourself?”

            “I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being honest about my own subjective experiences…”

            After wasting precious bandwidth arguing that he’s a scientist and does “experiments”.

          • Ziontologist

            I never came to the defense of Scientology. That was your ‘misduplication’, Grundoon!
            All I ever wanted to do here was denounce the evil of Scientology while
            being honest about my own subjective experiences with the subject, which I believe are key to understanding the scam.

            • grundoon

              ok

      • whingeybingey

        Also the cult forbids Scientologists from talking to journalists and refuses interviews then criticises journalists for not talking to Scientologists. Well, duh!

      • Anononyourside

        I follow your logic, and I agree with most of what you say, but religion and bias are inseparable. There is no way that I know of to evaluate a religion without bias, whereas a circuit board evaluation can be evaluated objectively without bias. Some would claim that belief, or non-belief, in god, is the bias with which an individual evaluates a religion.

        As for the cult’s numbers, I have not read one thing about the church that suggests it is truthful so I would not expect truthful numbers. If the church believes it has 10 million members, or rather wants me to believe it, I expect that soon it will say, ” so what if x interviewed 999,999 ex-members, there are 10 million members x did not interview.”

    • wannabeclear

      I also found it fascinating that “Karen Pouw” asserts that there are at least 191 apostates willing to speak out against “the church.” That’s pretty extraordinary if you think about it. It doesn’t speak too highly about your organization if there are close to 200 people who have left and are willing to speak against it. Especially when it is such an infallible technology and the answer to all of society’s ills.

      • 1subgenius

        That’s a fuckton of people.
        Karin KaPow’s worst admission since admitting to Tony that they think Jesus was an implant.
        Miscavige won’t be sending himself to RPF even though he’s her ghost writer/editor.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Yes, I noticed that and the best part is that the numbers of ex-Scientologists giving their stories to journalists keeps increasing while the number of ‘in-good-standing-doing-amends’ Scientologists plucked to handle the entheta (speaking to journalists) stays the same or decreases. Do the math, and that means shrinking percentages. PingPow only has about 3 standard denials for rapidly increasing ex-Scientologists.

      There’s only so many times one can accuse detractors as being liars and bitter defrocked apostates.

      • Anononyourside

        Yes, and they were all supposedly kicked out of the church. After reading Nancy Many’s and John Sweeney’s books in the last three days, I can only conclude that an interview with Karen Pow, if there were ever such an interview, would go like this:

        Ok, says the journalist, how many people has the church kicked out?
        Why, you really are a stupid journalist, says Karen Pow, the church has only kicked out these 200 lying, bitter apostates, of course!
        Hmmm, says a journalist, why were they kicked out?
        Well, says Karen Pow, they were all bitter apostates, of course!
        So, says the journalist, 100 percent of people kicked out of the church have gone to the media to tell their story, and they all are lying about the RPF, forced abortions, living in parking garages while pregnant, spying for the OSA, brutal mental torture, disconnection, and David Miscavige?
        You are so stupid, says Karen Pow, you are a bigot and a psycho! WHY ARE MY ANSWERS TO YOUR STUPID QUESTIONS LONGER THAN YOUR STUPID, BIGOTED QUESTIONS? YSCOHB, YS, YS, YS, YS YS YS YS YS YS YS!!!!!!

        (The above interview, of course, would have to take place by telephone with a voice modifier that makes you know who’s voice sound female.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

    ” Rathbun assigned Davis to sit with Cruise in the parking lot of a Home Depot in Hollywood while the star was doing his Tone Scale drills — guessing the emotional state of random people coming out of the store.”

    I am LOVING this image !!! …LOL my ass off…tears are running down my face… i am laughing so hard…and i am only on the 2nd page. Whack jobs…absolute whack jobs .

    • Rick Mycroft

      It could have been perfect: Scientology meets People of Walmart!

  • Rick Mycroft

    From the rather generic Scientologist comments on the Hollywood Reporter site, it’s clear that few of their drones have actually read the articles.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Good, keep on reading……maybe one will hit on something that resonates enough to make them crack their cortex open a bit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bob.gravlin Bob Gravlin

    And the COS folks,( Karen and other PR folks) are always saying how anti COS folks are a bunch of lunatics, etc. It reminds me of some psychotics I have worked with who claim everyone else is crazy and they are the only sane ones! I hope that when more folks come out the truth will be more clearly seen who are the crazies.

    • Unex Skcus

      Like the mum watching an army parade: “Look, my son is the only one marching in step.”

  • Observer

    Oh, my … Davey must be frothing right now (I bet he loved the reference to his vertical challengedness). I’m sure Tom is avoiding the entheta like a good little Ronbot and relying on his fellow Big Being to tell him what he needs to know. I have to say I’m looking forward to seeing how he reacts when reporters start shouting questions about all this at him when he’s in public. Tom has an enormous ego, no discernible sense of humor, and he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It’ll be interesting to see whether he loses it, uses what acting skills he has to play the persecuted saint, or goes into brainwashed thrall mode.

    I find Travolta kind of pathetic. I have always thought the hardcore celebs have to have known about the abuse rampant within the “church” (the dilettantes maybe not so much). It’s apparent from the excerpt that he saw it up close and personal, but IMO is such a weak personality that he can’t even stand up for himself, let alone anyone else. These days he just seems emasculated, beaten down and hopeless. It’s sad, but doesn’t excuse his inaction. It’s a pity Scn got its hooks into him at such a young age. I think he could have been a decent human being with a happy life.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dianne.lipson Dianne Lipson

      Stars like Travolta probably had to do some unsavory things to get and stay there. Reports from men allegedly sexually harrasses by Travolta indicate that powerful men in the industry used Travolta sexually during the “Kotter” years. Because of these (alleged) experiences he may have already been accostomed to the type of power dynamic in the COS. Also let’s not forget that the COS has all the info in his auditing folders and a willingness to use it against people.

      • mook

        “Reports from men allegedly sexually harrassed by Travolta indicate that powerful men in the industry used Travolta sexually during the “Kotter” years.”

        this book somewhat goes into that
        http://www.amazon.com/Party-Animals-Hollywood-Starring-Fabulous/dp/0306816555/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357767995&sr=1-1&keywords=alan+carr+producer

      • Observer

        I’m not surprised about the alleged abuse of a young and vulnerable JT, and I wonder again why anyone would want to get into the celebrity thing. I’d rather be an insignificant anonymous middle class shlub with a husband and 8-to-5 job and some wiener dogs and the freedom to be myself. Which is just as well, because that’s what I am. lol

        I wonder if JT ever regrets taking the celebrity path he did. I strongly suspect he curses the day he ever heard of Scientology.

  • John P.

    Miscavige may have developed a lavish lifestyle as a direct result of his relationship with Cruise and exposure to the movie star’s world.

    Yes, the details were quite interesting. If you put together the cost of the (“wog”) chefs and stewards in charge of Miscavige’s diet on top of the food costs themselves, you’re looking at over $1 million in meal expenses per year; the contrast with the $0.75 per meal rice and beans for the staff is quite stark.

    But think about the fact that Miscavige now sees himself as important enough to travel in a Boeing Business Jet (a data point I hadn’t seen previously). Hourly spot charter rates on these is at least $15,000 (it’s about $10,000 if you have a fractional ownership thing like NetJets). So if he’s opening 30 new Idle Orgs a year (per cult’s own press materials) plus taking a bunch of flights from LA to the FreeWinds, you’re burning up at least 300 hours of jet time per year. A cool $5 million. Throw in the cost of the entourage (chiropractor, massage therapist, makeup artist, hair stylist, other assorted “wog experts”) of 15 people at another $2 million, plus the costs for housing at Int Base, apartments near Pac Base, and other stuff, and you quickly get a total cost for Miscavige’s lifestyle exceeding $10 million per year. The true cost could be a lot higher.

    When one looks at Miscavige’s decision making, the whole game is about preserving his lifestyle. Pure and simple. As the revenue slides, laying people off won’t solve the problems like it would in a normal company, due to the slave labor pay scales. And he’s not going to sell real estate because that would call attention to the plummeting financial picture (and thus to his own incompetence, since he’s staked his credibility as head honcho to the Ideal Org strategy). So with these two fixed cost burdens that can’t be cut (buildings and lifestyle), he’s got no choice other than to dip into reserves, at a potentially accelerating rate.

    • Deckard__Cain

      JP, I couldn’t agree with you more about Miscavige’s overall motivations regarding his living expenses. I’m just wondering why he would proceed with the rapid, expensive real estate purchases and very expensive renovations. He’s adding unnecessary millions to his expenses when he could buy cheaper buildings and get lower cost renovations. I realize that the ‘top notch’ attitude seeps into his professional decision making process (if you want to call it that) but does he not pay attention to the numbers here? He’s notoriously cheap in paying/upkeep of the labor force and purchasing things such as workman’s comp insurance (not having it is illegal in CA) but he adds countless millions to his expenses.

      I realize that the Ideal Org scam is just that….a scam designed to bring in a steady stream of donations, but he could maximize his gain by cutting back on the expensive renovations. As you stated earlier, he’s no longer using his free labor force but professionals to carry out these projects. Something doesn’t make sense here.

      • John P.

        It’s tough to tease it out. Here’s my take:

        Overall economic goal of “Ideal Orgs” is to get people to donate more money than the building actually costs, then keep the excess. And it’s all about short term profits for the central organization — if he has to pay 30% of the scam to actually buy the real estate, that’s a reasonably good profit margin. Then he goes back for another round of donations to raise money for renovations. In the case of the building shell purchase, the goal is to have the cost be a sufficiently low fraction of the amount he thinks he can raise in each territory that he makes the maximum profit possible. That argues for buying older, historic buildings, whether they’re located in areas easily accessible to the (nonexistent) customer base. In the case of the renovations, he’s banking on donor guilt (“Hey, now that we have that building, you have to dig deeper to do the renovations; we have a planet to save!”) to get them to come up with more cash. And you can keep hitting them here and there for other expenses — in the case of the Orange County org, the cult “forgot” that they had to pay Staubach a $200k commission before renovations could start, so they raised another $200k on top of the advertised renovation target (details on Marty’s blog).

        Overall marketing goal of Ideal Orgs is to get existing members to think that the cult is expanding. While it’s unlikely that anyone in the Dallas area seeing the 5x larger Dallas Ideal Org (conveniently located right near all the strip clubs on Northwestern Highway) will think the org is bursting at the seams due to more space serving ever fewer members, the list of new Ideal Orgs popping up everywhere can be used to convince culties that their org is the only one that’s failing.

        The scam works as long as the number of donors times their economic depth is flat or increasing. But if those guys start to hit the wall, you’re in trouble. I think last Sunday’s “Sunday Funnies” had an article targeting “Keystone” (i.e., $10,000) level donors for Sooper Powerz, which may be a shift in strategy as their “whales” are tapped out. And if that’s true, then this would confirm that the available donor pool for Ideal Orgs is shrinking. When that happens, some weird shit is going to go down; we’ll probably see tax liens on various buildings at an increasing rate and other evidence that buildings are being abandoned.

        I think what doesn’t add up is Miscavige’s inability to realize that his money pool is shrinking. For 25 years, they’ve been able to find some way to pull off some sort of growth in cash donations, but that could well be reversing. Somebody sane would stop the pace of expansion immediately if they fumbled the revenue numbers. But Miscavige doesn’t know any other playbook than squeezing more money out of people with high pressure tactics. And he has absolutely no idea what to do when that playbook stops working. After all, he has eliminated any of the threats to his power — only morons are left. And while he may ask “wog experts” for advice, I don’t think he’ll listen to any of them who tell him to stop doing something; he’ll only accept advice from them on how to keep doing what he already wants to do (“it’s OK, you can dip into reserves just this once…”).

        • Deckard__Cain

          Agreed. There are certain givens in this calculation, one being Miscavige’s inability to make business decisions that are 1) sane, 2) acknowledges his shrinking donor pool, and 3) do not benefit him in some way. Thanks for the insight, this helps me better understand his brand of crazy.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          When Wright’s book comes out, I expect an Idle Org opening in Columbia.
          Those buildings standing empty, bills piling up, unfinished or on the delinquent tax roles and dilapidating in the winter are now a big red flag waving in the face of his last donors. The fact that hey chose historic buildings to impress/fool the public means they will be much harder to sell in a tight market. Historic means big expenses before during and after and constant headaches.

          Jenna Hill Miscavige’s book coming out has far reaching professional support it appears, but since we’ve had no leaks, don’t know how this will impact. One thing I do know is that paranoid crazies escalate the more the real world presses in on them. I just don’t see him sticking around for much of 2013.

          • John P.

            THDNE, it’s an interesting suggestion that they would put up an Idle Org in Colombia — I assume you’re envisioning US donors funding the purchase, donors who are unlikely to visit the area to check on how well their money has been spent.

            As far as whether Miscavige bails in 2013, I doubt it. Cult leaders have a tendency to stay at the helm until the shit hits the fan, sometimes well beyond. Just like there’s not a lot of employment opportunities for douchetastic third-world dictators (think: Baby Doc Duvalier, Idi Amin, Ferdinand Marcos, etc.) there are not a lot of follow-on gigs for cult leaders cast aside. Especially not ones as incompetent as Miscavige. He could pen a memoir, “How I turned a $300 million per year cult with its own fake navy, police force and gulag sites into $50 million in empty real estate.” It will have to get a lot uglier before Miscavige heads for the hills (or wherever his little hidey hole might be). I suspect they’ll only take him out of Hemet in handcuffs or in a box.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hmmm, well okay then, I’ll settle for the cuffs. However, he has been working on grooming this unlikely area for at least five years now. I see him applying Hubbard’s ethics steps on what you do when you are “stepping off” a point of power. Then again, I reiterate I am completely unable to be objective on the subject of his retirement. I just hope for the sake of all those aching families out there that they will be united with their families This Year. I’ve added Hidey Hole and Rat Hole now to my collection. Thank you for your contribution.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Are you going to publish the Scientology Watcher Glossary soon? cuz you been gathering some pretty good stuff.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

          Honestly, I wonder if sometimes we over-think this. Maybe he is just like one of those pro sports guys who suddenly comes upon a seemingly endless supply of money and so spends like crazy and then 40 years later suddenly all the money is gone and he’s left with nothing. The guy is probably just a class A idiot.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I hope this is the correct scenario…..and the cops frog march his ass outta INT and straight to jail.
            Now that would be “RICH”.

            • Valerie Ross

              I personally don’t want to see him in jail. I would rather see him flipping burgers at McDonalds in downtown LA and living in a slum, then getting fired for insubordination action and living on the street. *sigh* fantasy continues . . .

          • Deckard__Cain

            Some of us are trained over-analyzers. We get paid to over-think and it is hard to turn off, especially with a topic as complicated as Scientology.

        • B.B. Broeker

          How many times are they going to “open” the Buffalo org?

          • Ze Moo

            It was last ‘officially’ rededicated around Labor Day weekend in Sept. Tom Cruise was supposed to be there, but there are no pictures of him. I have a friend who works 3 blocks away from the Morge, no one hangs around that part of town after 5 unless the Sabres are playing.

    • jensting

      Reserves, plus of course all the revenues from the “donations” – tax free, all. Good thing that the I.R.S just are not going to investigate David “he’s NOT insane!” Miscavige’s lifestyle, isn’t it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/dianne.lipson Dianne Lipson

    The article on Travolta shows that unsavory practices in COS were during Hubbard, not just Miscavige. In addition to the child neglect cited by a commenter above, it shows that assigning “handlers” to important celebrities was a practice even then.
    Ironically, Travolta seems to have had a role in his handler Sandy getting out of the Sea Org. He “woke her up” to her own buried feelings. Shows a basic humanity on his part that I hope is still there.

  • Deckard__Cain
  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.tilse Michael Leonard Tilse

    Miscavige was always self important and addicted to lavish lifestyle. As an underling on the Mission Operations PAC Move, (the sea org “mission” that oversaw the renovation of the former hospital), he organized an expensive holiday for the missionaires at Big Bear, complete with steak and lobster, horseback rides, etc. of course many of us rode up and back in the open back of “skinner’s truck”

    • http://www.facebook.com/Mark.O.Plummer Mark Plummer

      That would have been Ron Skinner’s truck. He was Cedars Estates Service Org staff. Before that he was the Estates Manager at ASHO. I’d sure like to find Ron Skinner. He was a cool guy. He could feed 100 ASHO staff for a week on only $700.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Oh wow, another blast from the past, and yes, he was a miracle maker. Hey, I slaved over the reno’s as just another slob decker. Steak and lobster? You gotta be kiddin’ me! Well, okay, at least we weren’t in the rice and beans menu then.

  • Ze Moo

    A nice article on the CCHR and their Psychiatric Museum of Death.

    http://www.vice.com/read/scientologists-really-really-hate-psychiatrists

    I have some friends in Buffalo, I’ll see if they can get some pics of this:

    http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Jan8/PsychiatricAbuses.html

    With 7 more Scamatology books coming out this year, the sock puppets are going to be busy. The sock puppet quality on Hollywood Reporter story is very poor. Someone is going to to be eating rice and beans for a long time.

    • John P.

      Holy crap… the Niagara Falls Reporter appears to have republished a cult press release verbatim with no actual reporting. Is that one of those advertising rags or does it attempt to be a real paper? I can’t figure this one out.

      • Anononyourside

        Probably a paid ad. Small newspapers are hurting.

      • Ze Moo

        My Buffalo area friend says there is no printed Niagara Falls Reporter. Niagara Falls and Buffalo share one alternative paper, the ArtVoice. There is no way to comment on the Niagara Falls Reporter story in the Reporter. So I forwarded it to the Buffalo News and ArtVoice, the regions ‘real’ newspapers. I included links to recent ‘Museum of Death’ articles from Canada and LA. ArtVoice might publish it, the Buffalo News seldom covers CO$ at all.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

      Well let me just say that the first article from Vice was awesome. I loved it. Thanks for sharing.

      I was seeing a psychiatrist and I had to cancel some appointments recently. Guess what happened? Nothing. They just cancelled them. I felt strange that no one was calling me repeatedly asking me to explain myself or telling me I had to report to ethics because there was obviously something wrong with me since I couldn’t make time. It was nice. I just said, “Sorry can’t make it.” And that was that.

      Really shows you the stark contrast between psychiatry and Scientology.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

    Well for starters Scientology finally acknowledged the true size of this “small group of bitter, defrocked apostates” in their response (http://www.scientologynews.org/statements/scientology-response-hollywood-reporter.html). “Most of the remaining 200 were apostates, many who have shopped similar false claims to the gossip media for years.”

    The Travolta story is truly horrifying. It should dispel any remaining notion that the Church of Scientology is “family oriented” in any way shape or form. That they would separate a mother from her newborn is appalling, regardless of any reason they might use to justify it.

    I like the way that Wright pointed out how Miscavige honed his abilities to appeal to Cruise’s ego. I also love the way he highlights the constant struggle of a Scientologist to remain loyal to their religious freedom while questioning the validity of their religion in the deepest parts of their mind. The story makes me feel sad for Travolta. He was so close to leaving and he let himself be bullied into submission. I also find it ironic that one could feel sorrow for Travolta on one side but be full of utter disdain for the maniacal and egotistical man that is Tom Cruise.

    I don’t understand why the church, which claims to be spiritual, continually highlights their materialistic claims. Has no one ever asked them the direct question, “What is it exactly that you do to help drug addicts and underprivileged youth?” No one seems to question their “accomplishments” which are nothing but loosely factual statements portrayed in a self-aggrandizing way. I wish someone get into a letter war with Karen Poopoo by breaking down her letters sentence by sentence and challenging all the unsavory points that they seem to believe are somehow painting them in a better light.

    You know now that I think about it, these “response” letters read an awful lot like the three hour Miscavige masturbation sessions that Scientologists call “events” (gotta give the guy credit, three hours is a very long time). The church constantly praises their “humanitarian efforts”, but it’s funny that I can’t seem to remember the last time they built a shelter for the homeless or sewed up a kid’s cleft palate. As a matter of fact, other than crowding people into tiny tents and sexually assaulting them while trying to sell them a good portion of the Amazon for $30 a piece, I can’t even seem to remember them ever actually DOING anything at a disaster site.

    I might just buy Mr. Wright’s book. I found myself absolutely transfixed while reading these excerpts. It seems about as fascinating as Ms. Reitman’s book (“Inside Scientology”). I learned quite a bit from that and seems I have even more to learn from this.

    I’d like to see a response from one of these people that Cruise spoke with, calling him flaming, egotistical douchebag.

    I hope that all of this media results in some kind of action from the US Government against the church. I mean in a normal situation this organization would have been sanctioned a long time ago for fraud and deceptive marketing practices. Just because it’s a religion doesn’t mean that the consumer does not still need to be protected. I’m talking to you: BBB, IRS, FTC, FBI, etc.

    As a matter of fact, considering all the paper they waste, I think that the EPA should get involved and force them to replant half of the rainforest. I mean it’s not like they are financially incapable of giving back to the environment they so wantonly destroy when they put their 2 million SQ FT printing office into action, pumping out 40 billion pages a day and reaching 200 billion people a second. From what I understand, 25% of all Hollywood waste is promo from the organization and the other 75% is all Dianetics books that people bought just so they could throw away.

    I can’t wait until Karen Powboomshabangzamwhamo delivers a Jessie Ventura style response and just starts ranting about how the Hollywood Reporter is obviously part of the trilateral commission, world bank, Murdoch media and psychiatric conspiracy against Scientology. Then she admits how the church thinks mentally challenged kids are evil and deserve to be that way and that it’s okay to take kids away from their Sea Org parents and force them to join at a young age because they don’t have anyone to take care of them since their entire family is in the Sea Org. And anyone who disagrees is a psychiatrist or taking psych drugs.

    I also love how they continue to assert that Marty Rathbun was never anyone in a position of power and never spoke at events. They do this without questioning how the infallible Hubbard Tech failed to work when Miscavige appointed Rathbun to that position.

    Lastly, Miscavige is in good shape for such a fat piece of shit. He should have paired up with Kim Jong Il. They seem to have the same taste in politics and food.

    • John P.

      He should have paired up with Kim Jong Il. They seem to have the same taste in politics and food.

      They also share a taste in creepy museums. The North Koreans have the “International Friendship Exhibition,” which consists of every crappy tchotchke that was given to the Kim clan by every diplomat ever, used to prove to their public that the North Koreans (and the Kim family in particular) are beloved of the international community. Scientology has the creepy “Psychiatry: Industry of Death” museum as well as the “LRH Life Exhibit,” which apparently contains not only every certificate that Hubbard earned for punctual Sunday School attendance but a whole bunch of Mighty Wurlitzer organs that the great keyboard virtuouso actually played.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

        The coincidences never seem to end because they both seem fond of procuring prime real estate only for it to sit empty and useless in a slow, but steady state of decay.

      • http://twitter.com/BradGreenwood2 Bradley Greenwood

        I gotta love you guys who reference my two great hobbies: studying Scientology, and “Pyongyangology”. I was thrilled to know there was an actual name for my passion. I can’t go to NK, but I have had many fun evenings, while in L.A., pestering the Scilon drones on Sunset Blvd. And I may or may not have been at the SF Org, posing as Guy Fawkes.

        • John P.

          Pioneering Scientology critic Paulette Cooper is even better at “Pyongyangology” than I am. I had done what I thought was a fair amount of reading on the subject this summer, but when I met Paulette in July, I was delighted (though somehow not surprised) to learn that she was even more knowledgeable than I.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            She is an amazing lady.

            • i-Betty

              She’s my heroine :) The more I learn about her, the more in awe I am. That is one life lived for the betterment of others. If only others we knew lived their lives so beautifully and wisely…

          • http://twitter.com/BradGreenwood2 Bradley Greenwood

            She is, without a doubt, the most sainted “repressive” there is.

        • Cerulean Blu

          You can go! Look at the “VICE guide to North Korea” on Youtube

          • http://twitter.com/BradGreenwood2 Bradley Greenwood

            Vice guide is excellent. I, however, already know the spiel. I would get thrown out of the DPRK for being a smart-ass and/or not bowing to a statue. I feel as if I have already been there. I would LOVE to go to the DMZ from the south, and glare back at a DPRK guard looking through the “blue hut” window. Miscavige could never hope to see the success the Kim’s have had. He is a nobody, and he knows it better than we do.

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      “As a matter of fact, other than crowding people into tiny tents and
      sexually assaulting them while trying to sell them a good portion of the
      Amazon for $30 a piece, I can’t even seem to remember them ever
      actually DOING anything at a disaster site.”
      Um, what?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

        The rainforest not the website ;)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Lol, Derek

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

      Wouldn’t that story about Kim Jong Il getting eleven holes-in-one during his first-ever round of golf have made a great squib in the OT Powers section of “Advance” Magazine?

      • EnthralledObserver

        My hubby, in his first game of golf, got a hole in one, on the third hole or something. I shit you not! He was with two of his younger brothers for one’s bucks weekend, and they were pissed off – played for years, not even a hint of a hole in one. Needless to say, my hubby has retired from golf. :p

    • DodoTheLaser

      200 of “of bitter, defrocked apostates” is unusually generous admittance from Co$, indeed.

      Somehow they omitted the other 9000, perhaps because they couldn’t name them.

      Oh and they forgot about all the critical people who don’t post on-line. Hmm.

      OSA better start monitoring Amazon book sales, just to get an idea.

      And Blow.

      • Valerie Ross

        Some of us still have our frocks, they have to catch us and take our frocks before they can include us in the group, and I’m a sweet frocked apostate IMO.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

      WOW They deleted the letter! Did I do that? Do you think they deleted the letter because of my comment here?

      • Valerie Ross

        Either that or one of his attorneys read the letter and said “whoa boy, you’re a lawsuit waiting to happen.”

  • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

    If there’s one little sentence that sums up the mutual frottaging of the scion big being bum-boys it’s this one:

    “Cruise admired the housecleaning so much — even Miscavige’s light bulbs are polished once a month — that the Church leader sent a Sea Org team to Cruise’s Telluride retreat to train the star’s staff”

    I nominate…… HEY TOM, WHO’S POLISHING YOUR LIGHTBULBS? as the next chant of choice at his next red carpet event in the US.

    Seriously – can you even begin to fathom the ego that would think of this…. we all know Miscavige is a sociopath but I’m starting to think Cruise is one, too!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Toss up. It’s gonna be hard for the media to ignore Tom Cruise’s comments to the Holy Dictator of scientology, David Miscavige:

      “If f–ing Arnold can be governor, I could be President.”

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Well that would certainly push me “off the fence” on the final decision to retire to Barcelona, or not.
        I can practically smell the jamon iberico now.

        • Poison Ivy

          If they could’ve gotten ahold of W before Billy Graham did, who knows…thankfully they missed the window when he was facing “his ruin.” Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d rather have a fundamentalist Christian in the Whitehouse than a Scientologist. On a larger scale, the crazy far far “Christian” right (especially the apocalpytic ones like Westboro Baptist) have done more to harm this country overall, but at least your average fundamentalist Christian (like Bush) pays lip service to “do unto others” and the Christian concept of charity. In Scientology, charity is a negative. It’s the most narcissistic, opportunistic “religion” out there.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dianne.lipson Dianne Lipson

        Hole, Hole, you’re glib!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

          Whatsa matta wif you, Hole?

    • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

      I wonder if Tom has his clothes rinsed 11 times…

  • wannabeclear

    “Cruise’s attorneys deny that this meeting ever took place.”
    “Cruise’s attorneys deny that this conversation ever happened.”
    Cruise’s attorneys are just glad they continue to rake in the dough.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Another favorite moment explaining Travolta’s first scientology “win” and why he thinks his career success was due to scientology/scientologists. Gawd, was I really ever this naive? Um, yeah.

    “When he returned to Los Angeles, Travolta began taking the Hubbard
    Qualified Scientologist Course at the Celebrity Centre with about 150
    other students. He confided to the teacher, Sandy Kent, that he was about to audition for a television show, Welcome Back, Kotter.
    Kent instructed everyone to point in the direction of ABC Studios and
    telepathically communicate the instruction: “We want John Travolta for
    the part.” At the next meeting, Travolta revealed he had gotten the role
    of Vinnie Barbarino — the part that would soon make him famous. “My
    career immediately took off,” Travolta boasted in a Church publication.
    “Scientology put me in the big time.” “

    • whingeybingey

      Lol, yes! Hilarious! It couldn’t have been that Travolta auditioned well and proved himself such a legendary fit for the Vinnie Barbarino character – it had to have been that people pointed and thought hard… mmm yeah.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Hey, if you postulate it, it will be so…
        My ass!
        Oh but hey, I did get that parking space one day….oh yeah….but that was because it was freakin’ empty.
        (Sardonic levels on volume 19)

        • whingeybingey

          Lol, that was one hell of a postulate!! I’m going to try that in the Home Depot parking lot (well, next time I’m in America).

          • Midwest Mom

            Remember not to pick at your postulates. They’ll get infected and it will leave a scar.

  • Farquar

    The image of Cruise and Davis doing Tone Scale drills in the parking lot of Hollywood Home Depot becomes even creepier when you realize you shopped there lots during that time period and very likely may have been surveilled in such a manner.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    So how come Tom Cruise didn’t get slapped around by Davey when he failed to make it go right in the UK with Tony Blair?
    Oh yeah, nevermind.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

      Cruise does get slapped. It’s just in private. And it’s not with hands.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Thanks Derek….Now I have THAT image in my head!

        Quick, someone wave a taco under my nose…(extra cheese and hot sauce).

  • BuryTheNuts2
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

      No Sciotroll comments yet! I am shocked.

      • SP ‘Onage

        Yeah. I was expecting 8 million scilons and one dwarf post when I got there.

      • Cerulean Blu

        Perhaps 2013 is the year of demise for the criminal org

    • Cerulean Blu

      Wow, this is awesome. Load up your harpoons, kiddos! I just launched one.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Now I just hope they start releasing them.

        • Cerulean Blu

          LOL:)

          • BuryTheNuts2

            They are moderated…possibly by a gerbil who is napping instead of spinning that wheel.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Thanks for the heads-up, headin’ out now.

  • http://twitter.com/BradGreenwood2 Bradley Greenwood

    Tony, I don’t how often you hear it, but your hard work is very appreciated. I am among MANY who look forward to hearing from you each day.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Yes! The universe is laughing in ‘Yo Face Sci-Celebs! I am sick and tired of Scientology celebrities exagerating/lying. If they can lie about Xenu, then they can lie about anything. I’m so glad journalists are finally putting these twits on blast!

    It’s about time the rest of the world knows what we here in the “Underground Bunker” already knew years ago.

    Sooner or later they’ll have to put aside their denials and face the facts, their cult is a scam…and it hurts people!

  • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

    So Miss Cabbage is a Michael Jackson fan….do you think he is more a “Ben” or “Blame it on the Boogie” kinda guy?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Well it ain’t Dirty Diana!

    • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

      I’m thinking Blame it on the Boogie – I can just see him holding those copper rods and getting down like a pole dancer.

    • 1subgenius

      More like the pederasty thing. Learned at the knee of Ron.

  • Cerulean Blu

    Wow, Huff Po mods must be sleeping. Regardless, everyone go post on Tony’s Huff Po article!!!

  • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

    The Sun pic researchers have just put up one of the most unflattering pics of Cruise I’ve seen in ages…. story is:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4735803/Tom-Cruise-wanted-tax-break-from-Tony-Blair-for-Scientology.html

    they’re just taking the piss now!

    • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

      speaking of pics…. this is one of the pics just in from his Japan premiere of Reacharound….. is he employing a doppelgänger ? … top pic ls him but bottom pic just looks weird …. never seen him look like that

      http://grab.by/iT4Q

    • stillgrace

      This must be an older picture of TC. Didn’t he wear braces to align his two front teeth to be centered under his nose? This pic was taken pre-braces, or maybe he forgot to wear his retainers because Katie’s not around to remind him? Maybe he thought as an OTVII Big Being he doesn’t require retainers? Fail.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Gawd, that is one shitty picture. And the caption says it all: “Cult…Cruise”.

  • Cerulean Blu

    Has anyone posted on Tony’s Huff Po article yet?

    • Deckard__Cain

      I saw another Ortega article-opinion piece in the NYT this morning too. Let’s hear it for Tony! I hope he gets as much national exposure as possible.

      • 1subgenius

        Let’s get him a Pulitzer, mmmmkay?

      • DeElizabethan

        Do you have the link to TO’s opinion piece?

    • DeElizabethan

      Yes, thanks for the info & link.

    • DeElizabethan

      That’s funny I answered this and don’t see it.
      Yes I posted.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Just read the cruise excerpt.. Holy crap.. If I were cruise or miscavige, I’d be having a very restless night tonight..

  • Deckard__Cain

    I didn’t know that Gloria Swanson was recruited into Scientology. That bums me out because Sunset Blvd is one of my favorite movies. I’m almost as upset with this tidbit as I was when I learned that Elizabeth Moss is a Sciloon. I’m praying that Peggy disappears for good after this last season of Mad Men because it is very distracting now to watch her in that show knowing that she supports such an evil cult.

    • Ziontologist

      Check out what Elizabeth Moss said about her non-Scino, “wog” ex-husband, Fred Armisen:

      “One of the greatest things I heard someone say about him is, ‘He’s so great at doing impersonations. But the greatest impersonation he does is that of a normal person.’ To me, that sums it up.”

      Normal person? Sums it up? In other words, she’s an enlightened spiritual being on her way to total freedom, while her “normal person” ex-husband is still fixated on being a lowly humanoid.

      Not very nice, Elizabeth.
      Knowing how Scientologists think, I found her remarks to be very offensive, perhaps more offensive than most people might have realized.

      Read more: http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2012/03/elizabeth-moss-slammed-fred-armisen-kinda/#ixzz2HYugO47C

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC loudly and openly condemn Lawrence Wright’s long and bitter attack on the Church of Scientology which is, after all, Mankind’s only hope of Salvation.

    And yet such attacks comes as no surprise to we in RTC given that fact that the Church of Scientology is experiencing unprecedented organic growth in every major city in the world as well as the internet. Moreover, by way of highlighting Scientology’s undeniable and spectacular achievements, whereas there was once only a single e-meter in the entire world there are now over five hundred million e-meters in across the 15,901 countries of the world including even the continent of Germany that once opposed Scientology with a vengeance. Now that the warmongering Huns have now embraced Scientology, peace and prosperity have come to Germany, this save for a handful of Nazi holdouts that shelter in their Alpine Redoubt waiting for Big Pharma to come to their rescue. But this will never be thanks to Fleet Admiral David Miscavige’s full-blooded attack on the Psychs from every direction on land, sea, and in the air.

    As if it were not exhilarating enough to have Big Pharma on the run, we in RTC are pleased to announce that we are looking to recruit a new group of sufficiently terrifying OSA Agents so that we may engage in Total War against the Psychs: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/01/09/needed-sufficiently-terrifying-osa-agents/

  • DeElizabethan

    Thank you Tony, always first and foremost!

    I thoroughly enjoyed this “preview”. I can’t wait till I’m able to read the whole book. So many tidbits I hadn’t read elsewhere and it’s sure to have more revealing details and facts. I found it to be pretty horrendous what the Sea Org members are made to eat and what the leaders lavish on, also the lifestyles that clash so. Should members know how their money is spent, which they don’t, they may wake up to this organization who deal in lies, abuses with children and fraud.
    Thank you Hollywood Reporter for making this long review available.

  • Jory

    Sorry for writing here, there was nowhere else…I’ve got a chronic iPhone sit: The pages linked to the main Bunker site, only open partially, and I can’t read the whole page (no sideways scrolling). This began a few weeks ago, as the site changed it’s look/interface. I tried it on two IPhones. Anyone else experience this?

  • 0tessa

    People get the leader they deserve, is an old saying.
    The Sea Org troopers (or fighters for the holy war ‘clearing the planet’) have indeed the leader they deserve: David Miscavige. What does this say about the people working in the Sea Org? They must be as mad as their leader or even worse. They probably function on the principle of ‘befehl ist befehl’ no matter what. Only because of the fact that Miscavige ordered it. The Sea Org is an army of dangerous drones.

    • Ze Moo

      Your ‘Befehl ist Befehl’ (orders are orders) reflects the pre ww2 german feudal mindset quite well. Another all too famous german saying from around that time was ‘ach, if only the fuhrer knew’, an attempt to absolve the regime of any wrongdoing done in its name.

      Well, der fuhrer did know, he just didn’t care how many suffered for the glory of the Reich. Lron didn’t care either, as long as he was obeyed, he was happy. Children in the chain locker and all……

  • 1subgenius

    Should be funny when Karin Pouw calls this Pulitzer Prize winner a tabloid hack.

  • California

    I enjoyed the section on Cruise and Miscavige petitioning Sec’y of Education to include Study Tech in NCLB. And Paige, who had SCN’er John Danielson, as his Chief of Staff, did so with Applied Scholastics offered in the expensive and ineffective Title 1 Supplemental Educational Services (SES) program. And of course there is Narconon Drug Education. And California’s Department of Education response to the infusion is a gift that keeps on giving…. it is helping to shut down Narconon Drug Education in at least 3 school districts in the 2012-2013 academic year.

  • BosonStark

    Hubbard started Project Celebrity in 1955, and Tom Cruise ended it in 2012 with his 3rd divorce, preceded by the outing of his crazy Tom Cruise, Scientologist video.

    One of the major things that sustained this cult after Hubbard’s death was its worship of scilebrities and success, in a culture that is preoccupied with celebrity and materialism. Wright aimed some arrows at one of Scientology’s greatest vulnerabilities — Scilebrities like Travolta and Cruise who got caught up in drama that was staged by the cult for them. They aren’t just finding their own spiritual truths. They have cult handlers — including a lot of teams — to stroke their egos, and use their vulnerabilities (as revealed in auditing sessions) to trap them in the cult and make them shill for it.

    It’s like agents and PR people in old Hollywood would construct a life for a star up to a point, that was mostly in print or a diversion for the public. Scientology takes it a step further and does it in real life, and enforces in these people a feeling that by devoting so much time and money to Scientology, they are “salvaging the planet.”

    One or Wright’s observations I especially liked was this:

    Miscavige showed his instinctive understanding of how to cater to the
    sense of entitlement that comes with stardom. It was not just a matter
    of disposing of awkward personal problems, such as clinging spouses;
    there were also the endless demands for nourishment of an ego that is
    always aware of the fragility of success; the longing for privacy that
    is constantly at war with the demand for recognition; the need to be
    fortified against ordinariness and feelings of mortality; and the sense
    that the quality of the material world that surrounds you reflects upon
    your own value, and therefore everything must be made perfect. These
    were qualities Miscavige demanded for himself as well.
    ——————
    Yeah, Scientology was going to keep their Scilebrities sheltered, pampered (feeling like “big beings) and feeling so safe, and then the Internet came along. Whatever their private problems were — finding a mate, hiding gay escapades, being thin in the brains or education department — Scientology could help them with that.

    Maybe it’s true that Tom Cruise never would want to be President, but by stroking his ego to make him believe he could be, it was part of what Scientology did to make him feel great about being a Scientologist. Wright shows how the little people, like Travolta’s handler Spanky, were sacrificed in this endeavor, and suffered because of it. He also shows what a peculiar, insular world that Scientology is.

  • 1subgenius

    I can guess the emotional states of people coming out of Home Depot.
    Happy! They’re about to solve a problem, or improve their lives. What’s so hard about that?
    I love that place.
    And free shipping on a lot of stuff ordered on line. (Non-compensated endorsement)

  • Try Me

    Sciientology Promises Super Powers
    Scientology promises attainment of super-human powers and intellect upon
    completion of its courses and mental exercises called “auditing”. For
    now, let’s leave aside the financial and personal investment which can run to
    the tune of $400,000 and several years if not a lifetime endeavor. Instead, ask
    if the promises were true, then why did the inventor die a very rich man at the
    young age of 76 years, and in a pathetic and a crazy mental and physical state
    with injested drugs? After all, scientology claims that an OT (operating thetan
    - a person who has achieved high level of training and exercises) cannot be
    killed by a bullet, get diseases, and has super powers over his body. Take the
    great yoga teachers of this age like B.K.S Iyengar who practice similar ancient
    Hindu teachings modestly, yet are active above the age of 90 and 100 years.
    Essentially, the inventor combined Hindu, Buddhist, and Aleister Crowley’s black
    magic teachings with his science fiction writings into a philosophy and subsequently
    called it religion.

    Ask why are the scientology powers not visible in scientific
    investigations, nor demonstrated by scientologists, nor used to fight evil in
    the world? The answer must lie in that these powers are no more than pure
    indoctrination of beliefs reinforced through threats and disciplinary action,
    and that as such they are unprovable. If they were provable, then we would see
    ample evidence in scientology organization and followers. That is why
    scientology disciplines its believers not to demonstrate them or to question their
    attainment or scientology writings. Bear in mind that any physical or mental
    exercise repeated many times, frequently, and in different forms will have some
    positive Seratonin-like effect on mind or body and will be temporary if the
    exercises are not sustained. That is the lure that is used by scientology and
    can be achieved without scientology or its exorbitant cost. Followers take that
    initial lure or mental candy early on in the expectation that further
    scientology training and exercises will lead to super-human powers. But they
    never get those powers, and get too entrenched in the belief system to
    extricate themselves through critical thinking.

    So what we see as evidence is that those who have paid large sums of money,
    completed high levels of training and exercises, and subsequently left
    scientology, claim no attainment of super powers. It goes back to the
    fundamentals of consumerism, “buyer beware” and that goes for buying
    religion as well. The US government will do nothing to protect the public from
    religious fraud and deception, as long as the IRS empowers scientology tax-free
    transactions under the guise of religion, and as long as public leaders and
    media support scientology as a “religion” without factually
    investigating the underlying scam that has been in operation over 50 years.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Damn Nice Post! You called it!