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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Another Indie Goes All the Way: Simi Valley Ditches Scientology For Good

Simi_ValleySimi Valley sent us a remarkable e-mail a couple of weeks ago. She wanted us to know that she’s no longer an “independent Scientologist” — she’s out all the way.

“It was a year ago that Debbie Cook sent out her e-mail and I finally woke up. But now a year later I’ve really woken up all the way,” she said in a phone conversation we had a few days ago.

We thought we’d start off 2013 by writing about Simi’s journey, which reflects a trend we’ve been watching for the last couple of years.

As much as the growth of a breakaway “independent Scientology” movement has been a huge part of the crisis gripping the Church of Scientology, we’ve noticed a tendency for some ex-church members to spend only a short time as “indies” before they ditch Scientology altogether.

“On January 1, 2012 I was off the Miscavige Kool-aid. But now, a year later, I’m off the Hubbard Kool-aid,” Simi told us.

First, some background: In 1978, Simi joined the church in New York, then moved to LA, where she found that her first name had people remarking that it was like the Southern California town, Simi Valley. So she changed her own name legally to match the town. Meanwhile, she was getting serious about her career in the church.

“I did some auditor training and got up to Solo NOTs on the auditing side of the Bridge,” she tells us, adding that she also spent about a year and a half in the Sea Org. But for the last ten years of her career in the church, she was trying to minimize her involvement and “quietly fade away,” she says.

“I was like a lot of people who are mortified at the thought of officially leaving and then being declared,” she says. (Expressing doubts or criticizing the church can get you “declared a suppressive person,” which is Scientology’s version of excommunication.)

Simi took us through her stages of disillusionment with the church. In 2002, she says, she started to have grave doubts about the organization she’d been a part of for more than 20 years. And she knew there was information about Scientology on the Internet that she wanted to read.

“Every time I would try to read online, I would get so physically ill that I couldn’t go through with it…I knew that Tory Christman, who was my friend inside, was now out and very critical of the church. I very much wanted to know what she was saying, but I couldn’t bring myself to look,” she says.

By 2009, she says, the big push for selling “The Basics” had her convinced she needed to leave the church. But still, she was unsure how to do it. (In 2007, church leader David Miscavige republished L. Ron Hubbard’s essential Scientology texts, saying that “transcription errors” had been found and cleared up. All Scientologists were pressured to purchase multiple sets of the books and lectures, at up to $3,000 a set.)

“On New Year’s Day 2012, I read Debbie Cook’s e-mail, which turned out to be my big wake-up call. I immediately got online and read all the shit about the Church of Scientology, and for the first time I was able to do it without feeling ill,” she says.

Debbie Cook is a legendary former executive who had run Scientology’s spiritual mecca in Clearwater, Florida, for 17 years. In 2007 she left the employment of the church and moved to Texas. Then, suddenly, a year ago an e-mail she wrote ripping apart the leadership of David Miscavige was sent out to thousands of church members. In the e-mail, Cook criticized Miscavige’s initiatives using the words of founder L. Ron Hubbard. It was a devastating indictment, written in the arcane language of the church, and it made many Scientologists realize that they were not alone in their doubts.

Simi says one of the first things she realized after reading Cook’s e-mail was that she would need to move away from Los Angeles, where she was around so many other Scientologists she knew. And even a year ago, she says, she knew that not all of the church’s problems were solely the product of Miscavige’s leadership. Hubbard, after all, had been Source for policies that Miscavige was still pushing.

But for now, she was ready to come out as an “independent,” and she wrote up her declaration for Marty Rathbun’s blog, which he published on July 29.

“I am now definitely an SP, and it feels damn good,” she says.

Since Rathbun started his blog in 2009, his site has served as the launching pad for many new “independents” declaring their departure from the official church. In general, they express deep dissatisfaction for the way Miscavige is running things, but make it clear that they still adhere to the ideas of Hubbard. They tend to wax nostalgic for the church of the 1970s, when things, they say, were more fun and less about high pressure fundraising.

“I sort of tentatively allowed myself to be labeled an indie while I continued to read and figure things out,” Simi says. “But I still had nagging doubts.”

She says she posted a lot of comments at Marty’s blog as well as here. “I still preferred to use nicknames instead of posting under my real name,” she says.

By November, she says she was ready to “fully confront” the truth about Hubbard.

“Hubbard was an evil, scheming, drug-addicted, lying con man. He wanted to rule the world, and hoped to also make a pile of money doing so. He cobbled together this ‘religion’ as his vehicle for ultimate world domination,” she says.

If that sounds definitive — she certainly doesn’t sound like any kind of Scientologist now — Simi still talks about how she finds some value in parts of Hubbard’s “admin tech” and his study materials.

She also talks about a “light” and “dark” side to Scientology. And we tell her, as long as she talks like that, she still does sound like something of an indie.

“I don’t care how people label me. In my mind I’m out,” she answers.

There’s no doubt she’s certainly gone through a lot in only a year. And like others who have left recently, she seems anxious to get going on a new life.

We explained to her that we’ve seen the same thing happen to quite a few other people who left the church in recent years. After announcing that they were “independent Scientologists,” within several months they were dropping any connection to auditing or Hubbard altogether.

We wondered if the indie movement was in some ways a sort of halfway house for some former church members, an intermediate step. And once out of the high-pressure environment of the church, where Scientologists are constantly hit up for donations and encouraged to spy on their fellow members (even family), it was then natural that they would gradually give up interest in Scientology altogether. Simi said she agreed that her own experience suggested that was the case.

“I have better things to do now, things that I didn’t give enough attention to in the last couple of decades,” she says.

“I feel like I’m finally off the Kool-aid for real.”

———-
Posted by Tony Ortega on January 1, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • John P.

    Happy New Year, everyone!

    This is a great story to start the year off. I think it’s one that could set the tone of the entire year, because this is a story that is likely to be echoed hundreds or thousands of times through the dwindling membership of the cult. This is the story of a “sideliner” or an “under the radar” member who has been nursing and harboring doubts finally throwing in the towel. Certainly, Ms. Valley’s story was not unique in 2012, but it will probably become somewhat common in 2013, as members who were influenced in 2012 by Debbie Cook’s e-mail will see enough other people leaving who are willing to risk the social and economic consequences of disconnection, and who are surviving that.

    The more people leave, the less power disconnection has, which in turn makes it easier for more people to leave. Economists and capitalists like me refer to this phenomenon as “lowering of switching costs” or “reduced barriers to exit.” Lower switching costs make it very difficult for entrenched monopoly powers to survive in a market, and prices always go down. I’m not sure that the price of Scientology services will go down in 2013 because the cult is selling a product that increasingly few people want to buy — the flow of new customers is not even a trickle, and Simi Valley’s story is all about what is happening to existing customers leaving.

    Incidentally, another thing about Ms. Valley’s story is her current perspective on Hubbard:

    Hubbard was an evil, scheming, drug-addicted, lying con man. He wanted to rule the world, and hoped to also make a pile of money doing so. He cobbled together this ‘religion’ as his vehicle for ultimate world domination.

    This does not sound like a loyal Indie, who thinks the problem is only Miscavige. There’s not much wiggle room in her statement. It’s an interesting data point that tends to validate a theory (one that I embrace): that “independent Scientology” is not a meta-stable state of existence for most people. Some who have a lot of emotional investment in their time in the cult, particularly those who attribute significant “wins” to auditing, may not be able to leave that aspect of their years behind them, so they may attempt to stay on as “indies.” But ultimately, remaining an Indie for life requires as much thought stopping as staying in the cult when one first has doubts. To the indies’ credit, there’s not the immense bureaucracy dedicated to ferreting out and punishing disloyalty as there is in the “Mother church,” but that also means that when people start to have doubts as an Indie, they’re gone.

    It is also interesting to note that “The Basics” scam, rather than other scams with even higher price tags (Super Powers, Ideal Orgs) was the tipping point that sealed Simi’s decision to blow (even if she wasn’t actually able to pull the trigger and break away entirely at that point). I have heard this in the story of other ex’s who have left in the last year or so. It is interesting that the “more drivel, fewer typos” benefits to owning a set of “The Basics” was quickly seen through by people who presumably were happy to have donated (perhaps multiple times) to the Sooper Powerz scam or to their local Ideal Org, opportunities that were undoubtedly far more expensive, and which promised equally elusive benefits. If this is the case, then it would be very interesting to see if the Golden Age of Tech 2.0, which is supposed to be imminent, has the same economic structure, and whether that, in turn, means that the decline of the cult will markedly accelerate when the registrars start to hawk that new tech (“Buy ten more copies today because we discovered a few more missing semicolons!”).

    • 0tessa

      Every new marketing trick like ‘the basics’, GAT I and GAT II, the ‘enhanced’ e-meter, will mean that more tipping points for even more people, may be even exponentially. Real Hubbard-addicts need more than one tipping point, it is a ‘gradient scale’ of several ones which will eventually lead to the final ‘cognition’: it was all a big illusion. But for that huge deception to go really down, takes some time.
      The Church is digging its own grave.

      • Semper Phi

        Oh yes! I forgot about the new e-meter! Now that *will* be a big money push on a wide scale, since everyone will be told they have to have a meter plus a spare. And since they will “have” to buy both at once, that could very well be a tipping point for many people, along with pressure to re-train and re-audit actions they thought were complete.

        • richelieu jr

          I love the ‘spare’ Fee-meter..

          Has there ever been a case of one not working? And why can’t you just borrow your friend’s in that case? I was once at my friend’s house and he and his wife both had two meters and were being asked to replace them!

          This cult’s naked money grabs are so obvious and well, naked, that it is amazing that people put up with it…

          Also, what other business can say ‘Oops, WE made a mistake and sold you an inferior, incorrect product. Now you have to pay for new copies at even greater expense…. It’s

          “I confess! You need new books!”

          • Semper Phi

            Yes, you can just borrow your friend’s (if your friend isn’t using it), but the regges will never tell you that is acceptable. All auditors are required to have a spare meter on hand while they are in session in case their meter starts acting up (which did actually happen to me 3 times). When I started my Class IV internship at Flag, I was immediately pulled into a day-long, intense reg cycle to get me my spare meter. In the end they had to admit that I truly didn’t have the resources and move on to a better prospect. So, I borrowed a friend’s meter as my spare whenever I went in session, and she borrowed mine. But if we were ever in session at the same time, we each had to scramble to find another spare.

            However, if your friends’ meters were still the current model and working well, that *is* a pretty transparent money grab. And that’s the sort of action that has brought the Co$ to the state it’s in today.

            • richelieu jr

              Very interesting, Semper Phi…

              I truly didn’t know there was that much chance of one breaking down. From what I’ve heard, they are actually pretty solidly engineered for useless pieces of equipment…
              Thanks for the info.

            • John Onthego

              I used to use a Mark V as my spare.

            • grundoon

              What was your meter doing when it was acting up? What did you do to get it fixed?

            • Semper Phi

              Two of the times, the meter itself was working OK, but one of the digital displays (tech terminology alert) – the tone arm action counter – stopped working. I didn’t do anything to get it fixed, I just made sure the meter was charged and hoped for the best in later sessions.

              The third time I had to switch out to the spare meter during a session was because my pc seemed to be rock slamming. The needle started jumping around like crazy along with a soaring TA. Step 1 when that happens it to make sure it’s not the meter. I switched, and the problem continued. But what we discovered was that it wasn’t the meter, it was a loose connection on one of the cans that combined with her soaring TA caused the needle to go nuts. We tightened a screw and all was well. (With the meter anyway. It was a really harrowing L&N session when I was trying to finish Level 4…)

            • grundoon

              Thanks!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

      “Lower switching costs make it very difficult for entrenched monopoly powers to survive in a market, and prices always go down. I’m not sure that the price of Scientology services will go down in 2013 because the cult is selling a product that increasingly few people want to buy”

      You’ve hit on the central conundrum for the CO$. Their product is already overpriced, their market is shrinking and their overhead (read DM’s lifestyle) can’t be reduced. The question no longer is whether the end is inevitable but rather how long it takes for the endgame to play out.

      • samuel williams

        Hi simi i’m a ex- scientolgist who lived in simi vy.calif. for many years and i believe i met you along my path while in the s.o. i joined asho fdn in 1977 to 82 altho i left the s.o. i kept the books and tech for far to many years. I first got my first computner in 98 and i read and read about what l.r.hubber was all about and at first it broke my heart to think i had him like a god with his so called church. i’ll never be a sucker like that again.it takes awhile to get cleaned up and keep the good throw away the bad and ugly and i know you’ll do fine just hang in there. sam williams is my real name and i’ll see ya on the better side of life. ps the pathway to hell has little bits of jucie Truths in it.

    • Semper Phi

      You make a great point about how it seems to be the Basics scam that really started to propel people out the door. In contrast to Super Power or Ideal Orgs, which are more or less constant vacuums sucking up people’s money, it seemed like The Basics would be a one-time expense. Buy your set and you’re done, right? Nooo, not right. At Flag, we were instructed to make sure that EVERY person had his or her own copy of the whole set. No sharing within the family, every man, woman and child had to have their own set. Anyone who didn’t was a pantywaist dilettante with suspect ethics.

      I hadn’t been in Scientology long enough to know the sordid history of revisions, so I didn’t recognize that angle of the scam (which others must have seen but obviously didn’t natter about). What I thought was unsavory was the insistence that no one share. We had to make sure that if there were teenaged kids in the house, they had their own copies because, “They’re going to leave the house for college or work, and they’ll need to have their own sets.”

      And cost aside, who the heck had ROOM for all those books and lectures in their houses? That bugged the people we called as well. “We already have a set, and we don’t have space for more!”

      My suspicions about GAT 2 are that it will be mostly a revision of training and processing, so the big sell is going to be in services. Auditors will have to be re-certified, and pc’s will need tune-ups to their previously completed services. I know that there is going to be a completely revised set of the “red vols,” the red books containing all the technical bulletins covering auditing and training, so field auditors and other tech people will be told to buy those. (I’m not sure about the green Admin vols.) But that is not really a mass-market item, which is why I’m guessing the money push to the public will be to purchase (or re-purchase) “improved” services that will (finally) rocket them up the Bridge.

    • sugarplumfairy

      How long ’til there’s not enough money to pay off the lawyers and private d*cks?? On that grand day, there will be no joy in Mudville.. but I’ll be happy as a clam..

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

        This may already be happening given that Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold were fired from their lifetime job of surveillance of Pat Broeker. Also, money may have been a factor in the quick settlement with Debbie Cook. It seems that the CO$ can’t afford its strategy of protracted lawsuits. The need for new revenue may also explain the effort to seek sanctions on Ken Dandar in Florida.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I really hope so.. But gut feeling is John P is right.. co$ may not be making as much as they used to, but the sleazy lawyers and PIs are still getting paid..

        • John Onthego

          Yes, but also the courts are no longer giving the Clinton “blind eye” to cases brought against the mutha church.

      • grundoon

        The day is coming when David Miscavige will have to choose between his private dicks and his tanning bed. It may be the toughest decision of his life.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. Yah.. Nobody likes a pale tyrant..

        • John Onthego

          He’ll get cheaper thugs.

      • John P.

        Such a thing is impossible to predict. We in Global Capitalism HQ are essentially in the business of predicting the future about small things (will this particular company be doing better in 3 months than it is now, and will the stock be higher as a result). Part of being good at this is understanding the limits of what one can predict. And predicting the collapse of an organization is nearly impossible — I predicted in January 2006 that RIM, the makers of BlackBerry, were toast in the wake of the introduction of the iPhone, but I was two years too fast on my prediction of the rate of the decline.

        The same thing applies to the cult: I am now starting to think that my earlier estimates of their financial condition were too generous (that they were in better shape than they actually are). But even revising downwards my estimate on revenue (donations, book sales, all the rest of it), if they really do have $1.5 billion in reserves, then the interest on that at 3% would result in $45 million a year going into Miscavige’s high-level slush fund… you can bet that not a nickel of the investment returns goes to funding day-to-day operations such as the empty Ideal Orgs or the half-masted FleaWinds. So even if the rest of the cult is shriveling to unsustainable levels, he still has money for those sorts of operations.

        And Miscavige’s thought processes are anything but rational; they’re focused on self preservation and reacting to the crisis du jour, rather than on sound business strategy or management principles. So intimidation of perceived threats and critics will remain a priority, even if there is no actual cult operation to defend by doing so. As a result, I would suggest that one of the last budget items to be cut would be the PI and lawyer budget. The last, of course, is the Miscavige lifestyle fund, which could easily amount to $10 million per year given the hourly costs for jet charters and the personnel costs for his entourage (hair stylist, makeup artist, chiropractor, chefs, etc).

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

          I agree that the P.I. and lawyer budget would be the last expenses cut (excepting for DM’s personal expenses). Do you think that we can glean any information from the instances I mentioned above? (This may post twice. If so, my apologies. My connection is a little glitchy.)

          • John P.

            Gerard, I think the desire to avoid more Debbie Cook trial style embarrassment was probably the major factor in the quick settlement with Marrick & Arnold. Let’s guess that they each got about $3 million. If the cult put up a defense, they could have spent $1 million trying to pound the two plaintiffs into the ground over a period of a few years. In the absence of a written employment agreement, it certainly would have been possible for the cult to deny everything. It’s entirely possible that the cult’s payout, including legal fees, if they had lost the case, would not be materially different than $6 million. That strongly suggests that the cult had a non-economic reason to settle this particular case — either the fear of the consequences of more bad publicity from publication of deposition transcripts and correspondence between attorneys, or a situation where there was specific evidence linking Miscavige to the operation, thus requiring him to testify.

            Yes, it is possible that Marrick and Arnold were terminated because the cult was running short of cash. However, it’s equally likely that they were terminated simply because Miscavige lost interest in monitoring Pat Broeker and decided to do something else, figuring that the chances the pair of detectives would sue the cult was remote. Ooops.

            I’m not clear on how the Ken Dandar action is linked to more revenue for the cult; if you’re referring to the push for $1 million in sanctions, I don’t think that’s financially material to the cult, and I don’t think they would net a lot after legal fees. I suspect that the Dandar action is solely to punish him for having the gall to attack them in court.

            • richelieu jr

              My thoughts exactly…

            • Espiando

              Well, Davey had a new SP#1 to deal with when Marty cranked things up, so the wog detectives were expendable in terms of getting Allender and his Keystone Kops up and going. As we know well, Davey has no ability to delegate and no ability to properly assign resources. Now he’s paying through the nose for that. Shit, Davey, it isn’t a good thing when you can’t trust anyone, is it?

              As for Dandar, I think they do regard the sanction as material. Remember, they’re all about exchange of value. You do something bad, you need to pay the indulgence. And they do get petty about this. Remember what they did to Marc and Claire?

            • John P.

              Espiando: you said “As for Dandar, I think they do regard the sanction as material.” I used the term “material” in the purely financial sense (which I would, given my job) — an extra $1 million in cash won’t affect the cult’s ability to misbehave in any significant manner, compared to an annual cash haul of what I had been estimating at about $350 million, but which has probably dropped to about $200 to $250 million. In terms of a victory that they can trumpet internally, and one that Miscavige will regard as a real victory over a troublesome SP, yes, hurting Dandar would definitely be material. But financially, it isn’t… Sorry for the confusion.

            • Espiando

              Well, that’s the way that I understood your meaning. I was just compensating for the sheer pettiness of the cult and their attitude that every single penny counts. Dandar’s sanction is a drop in the bucket for them, but they count every single drop for their stats. For the Cult Of Greed, it’s an art form.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

              John P, Thanks. I think you’re right. It looks like the financial dam, while leaking, still hasn’t broken. The wait goes on.

        • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

          “So even if the rest of the cult is shriveling to unsustainable levels, he still has money for those sorts of operations.” I’m not sure from the paragraph before this sentence what you mean by “those sorts of operations”. Could you elaborate, please?

          • John P.

            I was referring specifically to the extensive use of investigators to keep tabs on enemies and collect information that might be used to destroy them; to the “win at any cost” strategy of mounting endless tooth-and-nail legal battles, and to the emerging strategy of making big payoffs to avoid other problems (which we saw in the Debbie Cook and Marrick & Arnold suits). Sorry about the equivalent of an indefinite pronoun.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m glad you’re on our team.. I’d hate to think what would happen if misscabbage had an intelligent advisor.. Of course, he probably wouldn’t take any advice.. good or otherwise..

    • richelieu jr

      Exactly! If disconnection means you lose some friend,s but get to hang out with other friends who have left, it isn’t so bad, and can easily seem preferable… Especially as they will tend to be the interesting, thinking ones of the lot…

      This is the sort of thing that cannot help but increase exponentially for a while (at least until the mass of thinking, questioning, doubting folks begins to abate…)

      For those who join now, or who refuse to leave after the next year or so, they get what they deserve as far as I’ concerned… You can lead a scientologist to water, but you can’t make it think…

      • DeElizabethan

        Sorry but for those still in, it’s the leading them “to water” that’s the problem, since they are in that bubble and cannot read or look easily, ’twill not be so easy for them to wake up to see the truth! This is why we continue to protest and educate, hoping some spark of truth or doubt will filter in to them.

        • richelieu jr

          My point, exactly.

    • richelieu jr

      I also believe that for most people ‘Independent Scientology’ will have limited appeal, if only because most of the ‘solid’ stuff, the ‘wins’ come from the early, hypnotic initiation and the relatively credible basics he stole from other self help books and philosophies.. Once they find out that the higher ‘tech’ doesn’t work even if you aren’t paying Miscavige thousand for it and instead give Rathburn..what, hundreds? (or even if it’s free)

      Anyone who gets that Xenu wall of fire business for free on the web knows it’s bullshit, it doesn’t get any more believable with no matter what price tag attached… Also the whole ‘We were just kidding! testing your credibility now forget all that past life malarkey!” probably would lose almost everyone at that point, were int not for financial investment, fear of looking an ass, the attractiveness of staying in and pretending to have super powers and the well-founded fear that people who could do THIS could do ANYTHING, and they’ve got files and file on you…

      Sans all that, who’s gonna stay? I mean, really…

      (Which is just one of the many reasons I think Rathburn and his gang are not staying in through belief in L Ron’s ‘tech’ o much as realizing there is a power vacuum, and market position to be taken)

      • John P.

        I agree with your observation that many people’s attitudes about Scientology and the “tech” are formed by early auditing “wins” that could have been accomplished with many other types of therapy equally well, if not more effectively. Often, ex’s that I have talked to have had no prior experience in therapy so they may not have had a “win” through any other means; that tends to color your judgment versus someone who’s had a long history of trying other types of therapies.

        But I continue to disagree with you about Marty’s ultimate goal. We will never resolve the issue completely, because doing so would require getting inside of Marty’s head, so I’m not pretending I have the answer. I have said before that I don’t think the Indies are trying to take over the cult, nor are they trying to create an alternative organization to compete directly with the cult (“all the crazy beliefs but none of the evil behavior” would be the obvious marketing positioning statement).

        If they were trying to create an organization, they would be much further along than they are today. In fact, they seem to be pathologically avoiding creating a global umbrella organization to deliver independent auditing and other courses. I, and numerous others, have suggested creating an internet collaboration-based organization similar to the (successful) governance structure used to run the Linux kernel development project and several other notable open source software projects. But the response has been mostly silence. I think this is for one of two reasons: 1) there aren’t enough indies to support a global organization, even an internet-based collaborative structure, or 2) they are so afraid of going back to cult-like behavior that they won’t take a chance of even the slightest organization.

        • DeElizabethan

          John P. What you say in the first paragraph is very true for me and others I know. I agree also with the rest of your observation. Happy New Year to you, you intelligent, sensical rascal. Dee

        • richelieu jr

          Those are all interesting and persuasive points, John P.

          My suspicion comes from the inherent totalitarian nature of the ‘scriptures’, what I feel to be Marty’s ind of dodgy evasions of directly reproaching these parts in particular, and just the inherent nature of a power vacuum… I just can’t get over the sneaky feeling that it adds up to wanting to be held aloft on the shoulders of those he saved and reluctantly accept the crown, if you get my drift…
          Still, I’ll think about what you’ve said.

        • Espiando

          Tried to get something through a couple of times, but you can kind of figure out what happened. Actually, I’m glad the first one didn’t go through. I don’t think comparing Steve Hall to Reinhard Heydrich would do anyone any favors. Plus, I threw in a couple of mentions of certain of Marty’s Martians that went after me at Marty’s for bringing to light some unpalatable truths, and that’s just petty on my part.

          The point from that paragraph is that the Indies themselves have defined their own critical mass, and that’s 500 declared Indies. They’re close now, but the momentum that they had earlier this year has died down a bit. Maybe after the Wright book comes out, it’ll pick up again and they’ll reach the number.

          However, I’d definitely like to try again to add a couple of other factors on why they don’t want to try for some kind of collaborative Net structure like the Linux kernel project:

          1) Hubbard never wrote anything about the Internet. They don’t have the Net experience to try to apply Admin Tech in an Internet context, and they are required by their own standards to apply Admin Tech. If they asked a few sympathetic Anons for help, they’d have something that was bulletproof and OSA-proof. Most of the Indies are terrified of the Net. They’ve had it drilled into them for so long that it’s loaded with entheta (just look at how long it took Simi to blow charge and surf). Plus, there’s probably Verbal Tech going around that the Internet was derived from Marcabian technology by the Evil Psychs controlling the Defense Advanced Research Projects people.

          2) They’re hung up on application of Standard Tech. Any kind of collaborative project would have to include some kind of Qual. This means a) creating a standard of Standard Tech and b) creating monitoring programs to evaluate practices (I’m a third-party auditor, so I’m definitely experienced in both of those). This is where the problem comes into play for them. Inside CoS, it’s easy. Everyone’s got a hat. Everyone who has a hat has taken the courses and has certs. They don’t have the people who have those certs in the Indie movement to support a standards creation and audit body (not Scn auditing, but…oh, you know what I mean). They’re caught in a bind. Again, all they need to do is ask for help.

          In fact, here’s an offer: Indies, you want to create a new Qual? Tell you what. It’ll take two people. I can help you create an audit standard and audit form to evaluate Standard Tech. But, there’s only one person I trust to create that form with me, and there’s probably only one person you trust to keep this wog in line. Fortunately, it’s the same person: Karen de la Carriere, LRH-trained Class XII auditor. And here’s another offer: I’ll do the auditing. I have no preconceptions regarding Standard Tech. I was never in. I don’t believe in a lot of the Tech. But given Karen’s guidance, I can definitely evaluate whether or not Standard Tech is being practiced. We’ll even give you a nice certificate if you pass. So, Indies, what do you say?

          • grundoon

            I don’t think Qual does what you think it does.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Hey that’s nice Espiando! Surely more and more people can go onto this. But there is a need of a guy who is going to take charge of all this.

        • grundoon

          Steve “Thoughtful” Hall and some others seemingly just can’t get them enough cult. They’re itching to set up org boards and particle flows.

          Marty seems to realize that an org board has only a handful of people who directly help Scientologists to use Scientology to improve conditions for themselves and others. Only the auditors, case supervisors, and a few others such as course supervisors, directly help PCs to “go free.”™ The rest of the org board mostly serves cultic purposes of questionable value, such as flowing money and slaves to Miscavige, keeping PCs in mystery, enforcing the authoritarian hierarchy, groveling to seniors, interfering in Scientologists’ families and businesses, harvesting their wins for Miscavige’s benefit, launching and fielding torrents of Dev-T, orders, stats, CSWs, KRs, BPs, FPs, etc etc etc. If Marty wanted more of that, he could have just stayed in.

          • Theo Sismanides

            You have no idea what an Org Board is… Read ORG BOARD AND LIVINGNESS if you ever find it or if you ever manage to get through it having it ALL understood. Adios amigo.

            • grundoon

              Hi, Theo! Nice to have you visit here again.

              Did I hit a nerve? Aside from those posts I mentioned – auditor, C/S, course sup – out of all the divisions on the org board, which other posts *directly* help PCs to use Scientology to improve conditions for themselves and others? Most staff have other fish to fry… at best, they are vias of some kind who shuffle PCs along to the person who will directly “help” them. Some posts actually raise obstacles and divert PCs away from the auditing room and courseroom; some staff just clean the PC’s wallets as they go by; some posts are irrelevant to the PC and busy themselves with Dev-T and bureaucracy. Most of the org board is concerned with Scientology the franchised business operation, not Scientology the applied religious philosophy.

              Unfortunately I don’t have ORG BOARD AND LIVINGNESS at hand. Perhaps you would venture to sum up in a few words the key points that I missed?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Dear grundoon, thanks for the kind reply… I think you did hit a nerve, hahaha! I am the Org Board guy in the Indies, hahaha. And I explain myself. I am very much pro Org Board. Obviously you have not read Org board and Livingness which is one of the best lectures of LRH on the 7 Div Org Board. Every Sea Org member must read this on their EPF (introduction to the Sea Org materials and program).

              However I read it in a very careful and detailed way. I just had realised through word clearing that Conceptual Understanding can exist and I was clearing words to arrive to concepts where no mass exists. It was a fascinating experience and I couldn’t read fast but what I read I was trying to Uuuunderstaaaand It…! So I took that Org Board apart as a mechanic does with the pieces of an engine. And the Org Board FLOWS from left to right. If the staff have MUs or don’t know why Admin posts are there (to speed up and facilitate PCs and Students) I am not to blame nor is the Org Board.

              I can give you an example.

              The Org Board has the awareness characteristics, each of its Departments does. Like Dept 21 is Source, then 20 is Existence and then 19 is Conditions. Then you start with Div 1, Dept 1 its awareness characteristic is Recognition. And then Dept 2 Communication and Dept 3 Perception.

              Now if you have someone there, a Source, a person, you can even call him a Thetan but that would take us out of the Physical Universe so let’s stick to a person who is Source, he does something. He assumes some beingness so he comes into Existence (Dept 20) and then he has to face Conditions (in his job or environment, whatever he does), Dept 19. You should read Org Board and Livingness to really get the points LRH makes because I am not that good and I don’t remember the whole tape by heart, but in any case then you have Recognition of a Condition and that is Department 1, Personnel. And what `LRH says there, in that tape, is that let’s say a good auditor once he gets Recognition of a Condition what does he have to do? He has to Communicate with that Condition !!! Simple as that. Dept 2, Communication. Dept 1 puts the personel there and then they communicate with… Conditions, whatever those are. And then you have Perception, Dept 3. The better you communicate with a Condition the better Perception you have. See Hubbard for example… what did he do? He communicated with the minds of people… no one CAN doubt that. He DID! So just because he did and he knew what he knew he managed to have a much wider Perception and Understanding (or better UnderstandingS, plural, he explains that in the tape why there is no Understanding but it’s understandingS, many) (Dept 4) about the human mind. Whatever some good people want to believe here, LRH did have a better Understanding and Perception of the Human Mind than a lot!

              And here on Dept 3 we get down to overts! Why? Because here you have the limited Perception of a Homo Sapiens who cannot take care of his other Dynamics. Just his 1st, 2nd and mostly 3rd. And in many cases now not even those. He is committing overts, continuously either by commission or omission. And of course he is not in any way capable of affecting much the higher dynamics. So, a thetan stays at the band of a Homo Sap and sinks from there further down. Things are not real to him, (talking about the 7 Dynamic, not to mention the 8th) no perception about them, no understanding so he has no Orientation (Dept 5) towards those higher Dynamics. Why am I communicating with people I don’t know, here on this blog? They are part of some 3rd dynamic of mine (oh yes we form a virtual group, we don’t need our bodies but just our minds and….hmmm sorry to say our thetans who decide if they are gonna finally participate here in this blog or not) and certainly part of my 4th dynamic. It’s not much but it is something. And as far as I can see people here are interested to hear things (some of them, at least).

              So this is how it goes on and on higher up to the rest of the Departments and it flows from left to right. A particle (sorry but LRH had the tendency to simplify things so a particle can be a PC, a student or someone who is interested to get on staff) comes in from the left side of the Org Board, Dept 1, Reception and moves on to the right depending what he cares to do. A person is there in the organisation and Recognises a Particle coming in. So that’s a Condition. What’s the Condition? Well that terminal is gonna find out by Communicating (Dept 2). So he can have some Perception and have some Orientation about the whole thing. It’s the same in any business. Particles come in and the Terminals at the posts they cover are supposed to performed the required changes they are supposed to make on the particles and nothing else. If those terminals are unhatted or as in the case of the head of Scientology now, David Miscavige, they are ignorant tyrants who rule the organisation by force and whim rather than understanding, respecting and following Policy then you get the current state of the church.

              But the Org Board is the Cycle of Action. Even a cell if you would research it you can see it can have 7 Divisions maybe or most probably. I had a friend who had done that and had it down cold about the cell even having 7 Divisions.

              It’s the Cycle of Action. And I have tested it. You cannot perform only with TECHIES…. it’s gonna go bananas if you are to do some job in Volume. You need the Admin to support the Tech. In any business you need Sales People to support the Production guys. If the product is NOT delivered in the hands of the Consumer (Division 6, Distribution) you may have some beautiful Mercedes Benz cars sitting at your exhibition doing nothing. You have to deliver the product in the hands of the consumer for it to be a product. And if Treasury is collecting the money but is not building up a Body as an Organization which is well fed and taken care of, the Organisation will collapse because of bad use of its finances. It happens all the time in Organisations. So each Division, each Department has its own value. It’s another thing if Executives and Admin staff tend to become arrogant and unhatted “executives” and instead of serving the organisation and the public start pulling down the organisation.

              I think the tyrannic administration of Miscavige has led many good Scientologists to believe that Admin is just pushing for stats and declaring or disconnecting people. I am sorry to say this is not true. I have run a wonderful project at ASHO’s CF with lots of volunteers and a 7 Div Org Board, while being chased up as a squirrel… lol by the Captain. He couldn’t have it. But I could and we did pull it off. 250 people volunteers, how do you manage them all filing? Hahaha, you cannot, you need an Org Board to straighten up the flows. And that’s what the Org Board is all about. To straighten out and speed up the flow of particles.

            • Theo Sismanides

              And on another note I do acknowledge the misuse of the Org Board you are mentioning. When I joined the Sea Org I was led to the IAS officer to reg me and my wife, the new recruits. It was a shock of a kind. But that again wouldn’t have happened under a full hatted and ethical Executive. The Org Board can apply in any organisation outside of Scientology with good results. In Scientology church it is misapplied because Miscavige has no interest to apply it as he should. The whole organisation has gone criminal. So I agree with you on those points you are making.

            • grundoon

              Thanks, Theo! That’s really interesting. I can see the attraction in getting all the parts to mesh and engage like a well oiled machine. Somewhere amid the spinning gears should be a few terminals where delivery is supposed to happen as PCs are whisked in and away.

              The mechanism is fueled by the PC’s desire to reach the delivery terminals. The org inserts resistance in the PC’s path in order to convert some of the PC’s motive force into work and money. Some of the PC’s extracted life force is fed back to power the machine, some is tapped for other purposes such as funding the boss’s climb up the Bridge, tanning beds, etc., and much is dispersed as waste heat through bureaucratic friction.

              Optimum efficiency for an org means increasing the extraction of work and money per PC, and holding to a minimum the Scientology delivered in exchange – using the fewest possible auditors and C/S’s – while pumping the PC’s desire high enough to continue pushing through the artificial obstacles. (Note the inherent tendency to increase the load on auditors and C/S’s to just short of burnout and physical collapse.) The mechanism takes on a life of its own, seeking its own survival and growth above all, and viewing PCs and delivery terminals as consumable resources.

              As an indy, you have an opportunity to take a fresh look at the Org Board. When you have a single living Source engaged in continuing research and guiding the progress of the tech, it makes sense to organize as one worldwide pyramid with Source at the top. But now that LRH has moved on, there will be no new tech coming down. There is no longer any need to flow money upwards to fund LRH’s projects and research. Security is not so important now that all the materials are publicly available and, without LRH, there is no central point to be defended against infiltrators. Planetary clearing no longer requires a planetary organization; anyhow it has only ever been done effectively by local organizations.

              In the post-LRH, post-Corporate Scientology era, you may find that the standard Org Board has a number of posts that no longer have a real purpose. Nevertheless, anyone holding those posts will still try to look busy, apply policy, make plans and carry them out. Their product amounts to Dev-T, extra work for everyone else, and obstructed delivery. For example, in HCO, perhaps only the personnel functions are still needed. Book sales once helped to fund LRH’s ongoing research, but won’t repay the investment in inventory for a modern org. Does an indy org still need a chaplain? an ARCX Reg? deputy posts? etc. etc. Even if such posts aren’t filled, they are at best a distraction for those who hold them from above.

              The mass production assembly line was one of the great innovations of the 20th century. But is it the best way to deliver Scientology in the 21st century? Clearly it does not well serve either the PCs (who get inadequate delivery) or the delivery terminals (who get overloaded).

            • Theo Sismanides

              Grundoon, all those losses and frictions can happen and do happen. An excellent post on how the machinery breaks down. However a good thetan…. oups sorry mechanic… executive… can see all those frictions and smoothen them out.

              Maybe the old 7 Div Org Board cannot be applied as it was… New posts can be held through the Internet. My postulate is that there is going to be such an Org worldwide….(oh god, now I am gonna be toasted by some guys here, hahaha, but this is a postulate of mine). Actually it has been happening. People are delivering in various places at ver low prices. I got audited with 25 euro per hour. Good price.

              I appreciate your brilliant input. It’s kind of late. I could have commented more on it. Thanks for your interest. A thetan is interested and Homo Sap tries to be interesting.

            • grundoon

              Thanks, Theo. Wishing you a Happy New Year.

            • Theo Sismanides

              grundoon, sorry for the late reply. I didn’t visit this blog for quite a while, it looks like. 7 months, my god… anyway, thanks for your reply and all the time you put in to write it. It makes sense and it is rather analytical. However, a 7 Div Org Board can be flexible and the posts and functions can also be new. And as a matter of fact the whole org will be Virtual, on the Net. There can be for example Twitterers (lol) twitting away as promotion and of course Auditor Finders, finding auditors for PCs, connecting them up all around the world.

              The Org Board can be flexible. But thanks for all the good advice.

        • Theo Sismanides

          3rd reason: there is no leader who has the guts to do it.

    • Scientia

      “But ultimately, remaining an Indie for life requires as much thought stopping as staying in the cult when one first has doubts.”

      That would depend on your definition of “Indie”, John.

      I am working my way up the Scientology Bridge as I believe it has therapeutic value, despite my ambivalence towards its creator.

      I find value in ARC, the Tone Scale, O/Ws, Study Tech, Infinity-Valued Logic, and a handful of other subjects, despite what Hubbard’s intentions might have been as an individual.

      I believe that some of the processes used on the OT levels have roots in a number of other occult practices and that one can benefit from them without necessarily believing in alien holocausts or parasitic entities.

      Perhaps I am too “Indie” and not “Scientologist” enough for those who love their labels. Either way, exactly how would I “require” thought-stopping to “remain” with this viewpoint? :)

      • John P.

        The definition of “Indie” I was using is the one I think is in common use in this forum. It comes from long reading of Marty Rathbun’s blog and from similarly minded ex’s. Those folks believe that Scientology, as it was practiced until David Miscavige took over the organization in 1986, was and remains the most perfect system for self-development ever created. They believe that the problems with Scientology have to do solely with Miscavige’s running of the church, and not from the previous organization nor of its beliefs.

        It does not sound like you fit this definition. In particular, because you are not attempting to shore up the belief “Hubbard is infallible,” and therefore that all of his writings and ideas are The. Best. Thing. Ever., then you don’t have to engage in the thought stopping I was referring to. Trouble happens when one has to try to convince one’s self that when Hubbard did X, it was mind-blowingly brilliant, but when Miscavige did the same thing (or something eerily similar) it was with the intent of destroying the brilliant perfection of Scientology. That path leads to madness.

        • InTheNameOfXenu

          John P.,

          On Marty’s blog, I pointed out that Scientology had a bad name and pissed off people in droves long before Miscavige took over. I was surprised by two things:
          1) Marty didn’t sensor me.
          2) One disagreed with me, but I wasn’t attacked.

          What does this mean? Me thinks that Marty has realized short of insulting him nastily or cursing Hubbard out, he’ll allow open dialogue. Also, he sees Hubbard’s contradictions(can’t hide from it anymore) and can’t make excuses for him anymore. His followers are not dummies either. They may continue to practice/receive auditing, but are critical of his ethics and admin policies which got him and his organization in trouble in the first place.

          The Indies are picking and choosing what Hubbard’s ‘tech’ they want to use and are discarding the rest.

        • Scientia

          “They believe that the problems with Scientology have to do solely with Miscavige’s running of the church, and not from the previous organization nor of its beliefs.”

          Having read a good 95% of the comments on Marty’s blog since its inception I would have to disagree with this. Just because Hubbard’s darker side is not discussed as frequently or in as much detail as Miscavige’s does not mean that people aren’t aware of it or are unable/unwilling to confront it. You assume too much, if I may say. :)

          Many of those who’d consider themselves “Indie” just seem more concerned with the present and future. Why harp on about the dead guy when there is someone, very much alive, hurting people in the here and now. David Miscavige is no poor victim. He is not bound by Hubbard policy. The choices he makes are his and his alone. He has repeatedly demonstrated a flagrant disregard for much of Hubbard’s writings that for some to imply he is nothing more than a robot following orders is imho inane.

          As another poster pointed out earlier, Indies “cherry pick” what they find positive and useful from the hodgepodge of Hubbard’s output. What few here seem to realise is that Miscavige does the same. The key difference is that Indies (certainly those I have observed or interacted with) just want to be free to use the tech for themselves, to “move on up a little higher” and live in peace. Miscavige, on the other hand, picks, perverts and invents what can be used and enforced in a group, to make money, to control and to dominate.

          Ultimately, like magick, there is no real “good” or “bad”, “black” or “white”. There is only the intention and purpose of the user.

        • Valkov

          “Those folks believe that Scientology, as it was practiced until David
          Miscavige took over the organization in 1986, was and remains the most
          perfect system for self-development ever created.”

          This is a cartoonish straw man. There is no-one among the Indies who fits this definition. Especially those of us who were around in the 1960s and 1970s are well aware of the dark trends that existed even then. And of course those who came later wouldn’t know anyway. At best they are postulating a “golden age” that never existed.

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        Why not go to the other occult practices? Why stick with something invented by a man who stole from those practices, along with psychology, and twisted them to suit his own selfish purposes?

        • richelieu jr

          Exactly– If you like the adulterated version, why not give the real thing a chance? If you truly believe the messenger to be flawed, then isn’t it likely there’s a better version out there?

        • Scientia

          I’ve found some use from other subjects in my time but none so “workable” as Scientology. I’m well aware that’s not a very popular thing to say here but it’s the truth none the less. Whether that will always be the way, who knows.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I think its marketing…LRH was a marketing genius…! He was a “re-gifter”
            And the biggest bloviated ass hole that ever freakin lived.
            JMHO.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “Hubbard was an evil, scheming, drug-addicted, lying con man. He wanted to rule the world, and hoped to also make a pile of money doing so. He cobbled together this ‘religion’ as his vehicle for ultimate world domination”

    Alleluia, Simi.. From your lips to all the scientologists still in, indie or otherwise..

    • Tory Christman

      Amen, sugarplumfairy! Congratulations, Simi Valley! As someone who spent 30 years fighting the “church” of $cientology (and Hubbard) re getting off my much needed medication for Epilepsy—to then find out he WAS a “drug addicted, lying con man” REALLY Pissed me off, once I escaped out in 2000. Thank you for speaking out, and thank you, Tony O for such an excellent start to 2013! I have a feeling…like in Cassablanca…”This is the start of a great friendship”. Well for us…I think this is the start of one Kick ASS New Year. Happy New Year for ALL….and may this year be twice as great as last year, which was a fantastic Year. ((Hugs)) Tory/Magoo

      • mattekudasai

        Hugs back at cha Tory Magoo. I love your posts and videos. You are my hero. You are so salt of the earth, and loved seeing you and Andreas together. Loved loved loved scientology the OT panels.I hope you don’t mind if I cut and paste that here with the stellar Mark Bunkehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C5j63DsmnQr vid/interview: There is you and so many other’s from our community that I would love to one day meet.

        • richelieu jr

          Link doesn’t see to work and I can’t figure out what parts to cut out…

          • mattekudasai

            All fixed. My learning curve has grown exponentially today.Patting myself on the back. Highly entertaining when Tory and her friends explain how when reaching the levels of OTVII and they started questioning the “tech” they came to a point of realizing they didn’t want to have to justify things that just didn’t make sense anymore. Enjoy!

            • richelieu jr

              Cheers!

            • mattekudasai

              Salut!

            • richelieu jr

              ;-)

        • Tory Christman

          Thank you, mattekudasai :) I greatly appreciate your very kind words. Yes, let’s hope we meet …all of us. May 2013 be one fantastic year for ALL :)

  • 1subgenius

    “I have better things to do ….”
    No shit.

    I wonder if she has an email list. She should do a Debbie.

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      You mean the way Debbie did Dallas? Oh wait. It wasn’t, was it?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

        Debbie did San Antonio.

  • Vistaril

    The last thing a person escaping Scientology needs is more Scientology. I can’t help but wonder how much sooner Simi might have realised the true nature of Scientology were it not for the Independent sand trap.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gayle.smith.3994 Gayle Smith

      That’s a two way street though, how much longer might she have waited to bust loose without the safety net of the indies? Personally, I think the indies are all semi-delusional. But I was never in, I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to break away from something that so much of life has been tied up in.

      The important thing is that she found the courage to take that first step away, even if it was a transitional step into the indies. It gave her the time and the support system to get her feet under her while she came to realize the whole truth.

      • Anononyourside

        So what if it’s a “half-way house”? At least it’s out of the horror of the CoS, and people have the breathing room to decide their own fate. Without the Indies, many, many fewer people would have left the CoS. Why does Miscavige hate the Indies so much? Because that movement is giving a way out of the CoS concentration camps to members of the CoS who need it. I wish all cults had an “Indies” movement to help people find their way out.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      There’s no one size fits all for addiction withdrawal.

      • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

        In my case I found the indies had every annoying characteristic that the full priced kool aid drinkers possess. I never could make any inroad on Marty’s blog. Just constantly attacked and called an OSA shill. Or evaluated and invalidated for asking honest questions. Once I found Tonys blog (thanks for the link Marty!) and the first discussion I came across was an erudite comparison of OTO, Thelema and SCN. I knew I was hooked! You guys rock!! Happy New Year.

    • Nigel

      Wait…. she was in for 30 years, and your worried about the last 9 months?

      She got out, man. Cheers

  • SP ‘Onage

    The name “Simi” comes from the name of the Chumash Indian village that was located at the western end of Simi Valley. But what does the name mean? The late Janet Cameron, in her book of recollections about old Simi (Simi Grows Up, 1963), indicated that it means “valley of the winds”. The name fits now that Simi has blown scientology for good.

    Excellent news! I am so glad she woke-up. :-)

    • richelieu jr

      Great details, love it! I have some old 3D photos of Simi people and a sort of hut, a s I recall in a book of stereo photos of 19th century California…

  • BosonStark

    Great New Year’s story, and way to tie in the big Debbie Cook news of last New Year”s day.

    Near the beginning of Marty’s blog, I started using the tern “halfway house” for his thang, and even Marty used it a couple of times, which I found odd because after all, what are they halfway to? Congrats to Simi for making it all the way. Yes Virginia, you can go indie of the indies, and make it all the way out of the House of Hubbard, or should that be cupboard of Hubbard.

    • richelieu jr

      If only when we looked there, his cupboard was bare…

  • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

    Congrats Simi – I like your style. Especially like your succinct coming out piece on Marty’s blog – not the usual multi volume doubt formula…

  • http://www.facebook.com/jonhenke Jon Henke

    At what point does the CofS have to acknowledge and make more visible operational changes due to the ongoing exodus? They already have a lot of shuttered buildings, even if they won’t acknowledge it. What will be the tipping point that leads to the CofS renting out or selling the buildings? Does Miscavige have any plan for this decline in both public and staff?

    It seems to me that the CofS has been eating its seed corn for quite a long time now. They may be able to survive on reduced revenue by cutting costs or eating into their bank accounts, but they don’t have that luxury with staff. You can go into the red on revenue, but you can’t do that with staff. What happens then?

    • Anononyourside

      You are assuming the CoS will act rationally. Nothing it has done in the past several years has been rational. A rational response would be to hire more staff, pay decent wages, limit hours worked per week, and, most importantly, replace Miscavige with an actual board of directors or elders. What happens next? Expect longer hours of work, and more shocking stories of abuse. Expect all that plus more extreme cannibalization of the church’s remaining members and resources.

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      “eating its seed corn” — that’s a great and very apropos expression. What makes you think they “can’t do that with staff”? Of course they can. They’ve BEEN doing it for decades. It’s a heart-breaker to see what org staff have to do to survive.

    • http://cofsexit.blogspot.com/ CofS Exit Zone

      IMO, at no point wil they acknowledge the ongoing exodus is hurting them. If you dig into the history of Scientology, a pattern emerges that shows a tendency to reinvent the operational model rather than acknowledge major operational changes. Initial Creation -> Promotion -> Growth -> Reduction -> Reinvention -> Promotion -> Growth -> Reduction -> Reinvention… and so it goes.

      The current exodus is only the most recent phase of a reduction in adherents that was seemingly triggered by the Basics campaign growth of revenue via aggressive sales tactics. Prior to the Basics acting as a trigger for defection, it was the publicized death of Lisa McPherson that opened people’s eyes. Prior to that it was the dismantling of the Mission Holders network, and before that it was the major revisions in the New OT Levels and NOTs. Going back even further, first-hand accounts recall the original OT levels and yet another redefinition of Clear acted as a trigger that followed on the heels of the earliest Sea Org mission revealing a vicious level of control at the heart of things. Prior to that, it was the major overhaul of The Bridge after adopting the “church” label that overly complicated Hubbard’s path to enlightenment. That followed the earliest defection triggers of calling it a religion rather than a science, which came after the initial dropping of the guillotine on creative adaptation of the general practices by black balling “squirrels” and declaring the supremacy of Hubbard as source.

      So I see the last major phase of reinvention in current times being GAT with the new basics and the Ideal Orgs promoting that reinvention. Thus, I think GAT II is just milking that last phase of reinvention for all it’s worth in an attempt to stretch out the operational cycle as long as possible. Once the extended era of GAT I & II (possibly III) winds down and the Ideal Orgs are mostly dead in the water from the current exodus, an all-new phase of major reinvention will be needed to turn the page for the next cycle to begin to keep the wheels of the scam turning.

      If I was guess what that next major reinvention might be, I think the most likely facets of the tech to play a role in some all new hook would be Super Power Rundown tied into an aggressive campaign for either going Clear and/or getting to new never before released OT levels. IOW some new gimmick used as a shiny veneer on top of an old gimmick that was a successful reinvention mechanism in past cycles. Just like they have done in past operational cycles over the course of time. The pattern stays the same and only the gimmicks used to build new aggressive sales campaigns differs.

      End result – it is not just Thetans that are reincarnated into new lives on the whole track in Scientology. It is also the promotion and application of the tech that is likewise reincarnated through reinvention phases that include revisions, modifications, or reorganization of Bridge/Orgs. Ms. Valley seemed to realize that in record time for someone who spent two decades being caught in the ever-turning wheels of Hubbard’s scam. Which is indeed very encouraging and a wonderful way to start a new year since it shows public knowledge of the inner workings of the cult is finally reaching critical mass.

      Awareness via critical mass of publicly available knowledge could possibly be the ultimate solution for breaking the operation cycle. If the reduction phase accelerates to the point that there is no market left to promote the next reinvention phase, the growth of revenue phase might just fall flat and the costs of reinvention/promotion to a non-existent market will finally put the coffers that fund the exec strata in the red. This would lead to the exec strata going into survival mode and robbing monies from one entity to keep another entity afloat. Which would then blow holes in the carefully crafted layers of religious cloaking that protect the scam from caving in on itself. Then they wouldn’t be able to hide behind the corporate entity shell game if authorities launch an in-depth “follow the money” investigation and a massive dissolution of the corporate enterprise could finally be a possibility (fingers crossed).

      • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

        Maybe you answered this question and I missed it, but aren’t we already at that last stage — “Awareness via critical mass of publicly available knowledge could
        possibly be the ultimate solution for breaking the operation cycle.”? Wouldn’t a “follow the money” investigation take it down now?

        • http://cofsexit.blogspot.com/ CofS Exit Zone

          I think we may be getting close to that stage, but it is not here yet.
          The Ideal Org openings still being rolled out, promoted and staying open
          indicates to me there is still lots of money to throw around.
          Scientology need to be a lot harder pressed for cash so that money starts being pulled across corporate entity lines for major financial irregularities and prosecutable violations to occur.
          If (or when) GAT II ends up being a dismal failure and there are more
          shut down Ideal Org than ones still open, I would begin to think the
          serious money crunch time is at hand.

          • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

            Thanks. There are many factors bringing down this ‘church’. We keep calling the combined effects “the perfect storm.” But, as others keep pointing out, the co$ has weathered quite a bit and seems to bounce back. Can you say energizer bunny?

          • InTheNameOfXenu

            What about the so-called billion dollar cash reserve that’s being kept overseas? Do you think fhey started tapping into that yet?

            • Nigel

              You mean Miscabiges private expense fund? Unlikely that will ever be tapped.

            • http://cofsexit.blogspot.com/ CofS Exit Zone

              I have no thoughts to offer there, there is not enough recent info at this time to even fathom a guess. We need more recent defectors from RTC and/or exec strata finance to get out and speak up on what the current state of affairs is. But I suspect those who would know, are probably trapped in the RPF for the rest of their days or have loved ones stuck at Int Base that make for a compelling argument to keep their silence.

  • Observer

    Good for you, Simi! I hope your Hubbard-free life is rich and full of love and happiness. 

    “[Indies] tend to wax nostalgic for the church of the 1970s, when things, they say, were more fun and less about high pressure fundraising.”

    I don’t for a second believe that 70s Scn was all sweetness and light (unless you happened to be one of LRH’s pets, and even then he had a nasty habit of turning on them).  There is a common phenomenon called positive memory seepage, which skews people’s recollections:

    “Unfortunately, what you might want to remember most is the bad part of the relationship, so it motivates you to stay away from it. But instead, you are murky, and are not always fresh in your mind about ‘why’ you should be avoiding the pathological relationship. What IS easy to remember is all the positive memories. In fact, what has become intrusive is positive memory seepage. This is when all the good times and the associated ‘senses’ (taste, touch, smell, etc.) are flooding your mind. You easily remember the good times and easily forget the bad times – all based on how, and where these types of memories are stored in the brain. You may NEED the bad memories for emotional reinforcement, however all you REMEMBER are the good ones.’

    The full article is at http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pathological-relationships/201203/all-memory-is-not-created-equal-positive-memory-seepage

    • BuryTheNuts2

      There are some interesting points in this article…but that woman’s writing is annoying.
      Someone put too many capital letters in her Christmas stocking.

      • Observer

        lol, yep. Italics would have been much better. Or maybe some semicolons.

        • dagobarbz

          BOLD CAPS, FTW!!!!!1!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          oh gawd, not the Semicolon SP again! Have to build another garage to add more libraries now. damn

      • sugarplumfairy

        Ooohhh.. She’s a capitalist!

      • mattekudasai

        For your collection Bury: Little cutie outside my office window. I’m attempting to share this photo with you and for the first time doing it myself. Resolution #1 improve computer literacy. I missed the PARTAY here last night,by staying later than I thought at my family/friends gathering. Still got home before the Midnight Hour, but my mind went sideways plus #2 son dropped in. There was so much to read and I was so exhausted it was straight to bed for me. Imagine, Only one beer yet good munch out on party food and I went to bed like a baby. Slept 3 hours, woke up and hit the gound running and almost comletely reorganized my kitchen and cupboards. Took photos of the amazing expanding icicle growing from the eavestrough above the window in my “all purpose” living/sleeping/den/dressing/drawing room. Nuts!

        • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

          Looks like your resolution #1 is going well. Slept 3 hours and hit the ground running??!! Is the short sleeping time connected to your health issues? I have that too, but much less severely. It sucks, yeah?

          Doesn’t ‘kudasai’ mean please in Japanese? How did you pick your nic?

          • mattekudasai

            I did it all by myself and I don’t even need a magnifying glass to see the picture. Cool. Steroids for Crohn’s inflammation with a developing fistula. Do you have Crohn’s or trouble sleeping from other health issues? The Prednisone has “pumped (fist up) me up”, to high anxiety and a good dose of mania. From ” THE MASK” in the words of Jim Carrey “Somebody STOP ME” lol
            From Japanese Phrase book: Please wait for me. Adrian Belew lyricist said the it made a nice title and he thought it sang well with the song. The day I decided to join the village voice Tony O scientology topics, his announcement was made that he was leaving but I joined up anyway to chat with the fine commentors there and see what the next move would be. I was computer illiterate on such activities so I pressed my son to help me. When trying to come up with a screen name and avatar my son happened to playing King Crimson’s Matte Kudusai. I love this song cause it makes me cry and I noticed the lyrics related a bit to my sadness in regards to the Lisa McPherson story. I’ll post the words here. one of the lines says Pain like the rain that’s falling–she waits in the air–Matte Kudasai. She sleeps in a chair, in her sad America. I thought this is apropo–Lisa in so much pain being tortured and left to starvation and neglect by a Sad excuse for an American “religion”.
            I was also unsure of posting using my own name because of all the warnings of the practices of scientology on being tricked ,lied to and destroyed not to mention legal wranglings of Hubbard and his outlaws. Wishing you and me a healthier 2013. What does nobs refer to, I thought it http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858513862/was a nickname for one of Hubbards sons but I forget? Here are the lyrics for Matte Kudasai:

            • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

              I’m so sorry about the Crohn’s and the steroids. I assume you’ve looked into all the alternative treatments available. I have a different set of difficulties — mostly having to do with arthritis and bone spurs in hip joints. I get relief from physical therapy and acupuncture.

              I’m not a music buff (earlier in these comments there were lots of folks getting excited about the music on that flyover video — I had no idea what the rush was all about — I’m totally clueless when it comes to music, musicians, singers) so I’d never heard that song. It IS quite beautiful and sad. I went to youtube and listened to it. My nickname is actually No BS. But I never wrote it that way and after the Albert Nobs movie came out, I decided to just leave it.

          • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

            matte kudasai is ‘please wait’

      • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

        LMAO and definitely OUT LOUD

      • moxonmoxoff

        while we’re contributing squirrel imagery . . .

        http://www.regretsy.com/2012/12/19/im-going-to-need-549/

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Very interesting and true. If anyone tells you the 70′s, or 60′s, or 50′s, was “better”, it’s like that old saying about the 60′s, “if you remember it, you weren’t there”. A good and imo funny source is a little magazine called “The Aberree”. It’s around here somewhere on the net. Pscyopaths are incapable of changing remember. But it Is true that fundraising per se and crush regging en masse was not the norm and sex was still fun and alcohol was not a drug back then. But all in all, it was just another hell hole.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah the 70s when England convicted Hubbard of fraud and his wife and many others went to prison for the biggest espionage ever perpetrated in the US?

        Good times…

      • grundoon
  • BuryTheNuts2

    I think I understand her comments about a light and dark side to it. Hubbard contradicted himself so recklessly and continually that his own opposition to himself occasionally had to land on the right side of the tracks. Some of Hubbard’s rip off tech is quite useful and practical and is used by mental health professionals on a daily basis. It just not “called” the same thing, or wrapped up in Hubbardese B$.
    If you pick apart Scientology..(or cherry pick it)….you can find some useful things.
    I think it is foolhardy to try to paint the entire thing with a broad brush.
    If it was that cut and dried, we probably wouldn’t be here.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Great retort!
        You never cease to amaze me woman.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Back atcha, Bury… We’re def kindred spirits.. By the way, love your new av.. Goes great with your awesome screen name..

      • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

        I have a blind squirrel who lives in my back yard. He does find the occasional nut.

        • sugarplumfairy

          lol..

        • BuryTheNuts2

          so does “she” damn it to hell man.

    • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

      I agree with you, BTN2.

      For me, after having been fully out for 12 years now, I still have a kind of struggle inside my head about this. It seems like my mind just does not want to recognize the dual nature of anything. I know intellectually that Scientology is made up of many different pieces, and each has its own nature and result.

      But my mind wants to make a DECISION about THE WHOLE. It wants to decide on something that I can make very simple and easy and finally make it feel COMPLETE. This is the feeling that my mind wants on this subject.

      This worked in Scientology’s favor when I was in and telling myself it was ALL GOOD, while blinding myself to the evidence, right in front of my eyes, that it was not all good.

      It can work the same way when you are out – it was ALL BAD.

      Scientology is just not a simple thing like my mind wants it to be.

      But there are some things that I do know with completeness, though, about Scientology as a whole:

      1. Scientology was created and maintained by Hubbard as a spiritual deception. From the very beginning, Hubbard knew that he was not blinded and crippled in WWII, and that he did not cure himself with Dianetics in Oak Knoll Naval Hospital. The first time he deceived people with that was in 1950, in a lecture called “The Story of Dianetics and Scientology”. He maintained this lie throughout the rest of his life, and even lied about it again years later in his essay”My Philosophy”.

      He never corrected these lies, or told the truth to anyone about them, despite every opportunity he had for 36 years.

      2. No Clear or OT has ever been created by Scientology, despite Hubbard’s own claims and definitions for these states. Hubbard continually lied about this since his very first book, DMSMH. Hubbard would know that these were lies, as well, because he was the first and main auditor and Case Supervisor throughout his lifetime in Scientology.

      3. The authoritarian Top-Down Sea Org structure that he created in the mid 1960′s belies the populist and democratic ideals that he attracted people with in his book which were written in the early 1950′s. That he used these books to get inside the heads of Scientologists about what Scientology “really was”, and then created a totalitarian power structure around them is also easy to see – once you are out.

      These factual observations about Scientology lead me to believe that Scientology should not be spread to people without also making people aware of these facts. They also led to my solid decision that Scientology would NOT create a better world than we already have without these lying, totalitarian deceptions from Hubbard.

      4. Scientology is dangerous for a person. Without the above facts in mind, a person can not make informed decisions about their own involvement in Scientology. The way Scientology was structured by Hubbard, a person is not able to have all the information they need to make good decisions about how far they want to go and what they want to risk. A Scientologist is in a kind of “prisoner’s dilemma”, the way Hubbard constructed his Skinner Box like Scientology environment. This is why Scientologists can end up signing billion year slave labor contracts, or re-mortgaging their house and going bankrupt, or destroying their families.

      That someone got a gain from a Scientology auditing process, or from helping others in Scientology, does not negate these facts. It actually makes just Scientology more dangerous for people.

      Because of these facts above, it is very clear in my mind that Scientology is a toxic, spiritual deception.

      There is no doubt about that.

      But yes, I had some gains in it. And I helped other people have gains in it too.

      Which facts are more important?

      Alanzo

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Alanzo,….What a great post from you to start this new year.

      • Patti Thompson

        Yes. What Alanzo said. I was so relieved to find people who I knew when I was in and have them tell me that I hadn’t harmed them. There can be benefit that comes from listening to someone with compassion. I have come to believe that the benefits of Scientology exist because of human compassion, not the formulaic processes and practices. I have spent the past five years recovering what I thought was my reactive mind. I am almost human, now.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Excellent points. It’s like a local news story about the oh so polite and helpful kid down the block who just butchered his family and bagged them up in the freezer. “He was such a nice boy”. There are many threads on ESMB picking this subject apart.

      • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

        Excellent analysis. I would add that, according the Gradation Chart, scn has NEVER delivered what was promised: not only are there no Clears or OTs, none of the EPs for the lower grades actually occur. People are forced to attest that they’ve achieved such-and-such an end phenomenon, but ask them a year later if they’re able to “speak to anyone on any subject” or are “free from problems”, etc. The answer, if they could be honest about it, would be “not so much.” Having “gains” is not the same thing as achieving what the grade promises. “Feeling better” is all well and good, but certainly is NOT what we paid for.

        • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

          Excellent point.

          And here is the proof that what you say is true:

          The fact that these End Phenomena are not attained in Scientology is used to get you to pay for your next step on your Bridge! They are used as the “proof” that you need to keep moving and buy your next service.

          This became very clear to me when I was facing bankruptcy from a staggering amount of credit card debt, having gone “Clear”. My registrars at AOLA were saying that I just needed to open up another credit card and pay for my OT 3 package ($35,000) and then just declare bankruptcy. They were telling me that it was only my “case” which was making me believe that this was financial suicide.

          I said, “But I am a ‘Clear’, and I can see what I need to do for my own life on my own self-determinism.”

          They said to me: “As a Clear, you actually don’t have any self-determinism.”

          That’s when I slapped my forehead and went, “Oh my fucking God! I have spent this much time and this much money to get to Clear, so that I can finally operate and make decisions without a reactive mind, and now you say that I have no self-determinism. OK, got it. I get the game now. Holy fucking shit what an idiot I have been!”

          That was spring of 1999. Without telling anyone, I spent until December 31, 1999 reviewing all the decisions I’d made, and the information I had used to make them as a Scientologist, and how I had gotten myself to this point. I worked at a Scientologist-owned company and worked with many “OTs”. I watched and observed them, too, while waking up and reading the internet the whole time.

          On New Years Day, 2000, I announced to myself that I was no longer a Scientologist and began speaking out on the Internet about them under various names such a “Poopsy Charmicheal”, etc..

          They found out who I was and had me fired, blah blah blah, etc etc, etc.

          And now 12 years later, Tony Ortega runs a continuous .Org on the internet and those fuckers, and their con, is fully and continually exposed.

          Happy Fucking New Year, Scientology!

          Alanzo

          • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

            Happy fucking new year, scientology INDEED! Fascinating what turns the light bulb on, isn’t it? There’s an exit survey that asks what caused people to leave, what was the “last straw”. I enjoy reading it.

            I’m an Alanzo fan on ESMB. Ok, that was a little creepy.

          • richelieu jr

            Failing ever upward with your checkbook and credit cards out…

          • Artoo45

            You were Poopsy Carmichael? Awesome! It’s a name I remember well from 1999 when I first discovered the wonderful world of clam criticism at ARS. I was sent to Landmark Forum and asked them if it was a cult and they told me to look online. That worked out real well for them. Three cheers to you sir!

            • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

              I was Poopsy Charmicheal. Sometimes you just feel like you were born with the wrong name, you know? I didn’t feel that way when I was Poopsy Charmicheal. That feeling went away.

              Maybe it’s my true thetan’s real name.

      • scnethics

        Well said!

      • richelieu jr

        Very well put, Alanzo. Thank you.

      • Nigel

        I take it you didn’t write this response in 300 seconds, but DISQUS would have us believe it!

        • Sandy

          Yeah. The time stamps are apparently not working …

          • Nigel

            Well Ima gonna pray to Xenu that no world leader ever notices DISQUS time stamps, cuz that really is disorienting/ confusing

      • mattekudasai

        Dearest Alanzo,
        You are the voice of compassionate-reality.
        Thank You for your voice.

    • scnethics

      I like to say: “Just because Hubbard said it, doesn’t mean it’s not true.”

    • stillgrace

      Well said, BTN! Happy New Year!

    • richelieu jr

      BTN2, that is so true- When I was in scouts I was told that you could find what kind of berries to eat and which to avoid by picking through bear poop… Lots of things weren’t digested and you could figure out what to eat…

      I declare this the Golden Age of Bear Poop!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I am developing a serious crush on you!

        • richelieu jr

          Aw, shucks!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Muah!

  • ze moo

    Simi rules, herself. That’s is all it takes, wanting to rule yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJcg-g1pg

  • http://www.facebook.com/greywolfalyeska Robert Robinson

    Thank you so much for this article. Starting the new year with a cherry bomb down DM’s toilette makes me smile.

  • dagobarbz

    That sick feeling is probably deep fear, instilled during years of conditioning. When Debbie Cook’s email came out, the shock and focus made that fear diminish.

    All fearmongering about getting pneumonia for out-gradient reading aside, fear can make you sick to your stomach; as anyone who ever had to do that long perp walk to the Principal’s office knows.

    And the OG held the line until anonymous, and only a few exes like Tory spoke out.

    Suddenly, anonymous and more enemies than Scientology could handle. Exes started speaking out because anonymous had their backs. The snowball took a while to get rolling, but now that it is, the momentum is astonishing. 2013 could well be the end of L. Ron Hubbard’s elaborate scam.

    I wonder if David Miscavige has triskaidekaphobia yet…

    Simi Valley is lucky she wasn’t in Cucamonga. I mean, how’d you like to be named Cucamonga?

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      We’re grateful for you, Barb. You’ve kept up the good fight for years and years, sometimes alone. And you’ve helped many to wake up and smell the coffee. Good on ya, mate.

    • Observer

      Was it you I saw a photo of enturbulating Int by holding a small bust of Hubbard up to one of their security cameras? That is one of my favorite pics in the history of the world–I still cackle like a maniac when I think of it.

      • richelieu jr

        Where can I see this great work of art?

        • Observer

          It was somewhere on OCMB, posted at least a year ago and probably longer. I think it was posted by either AGP or Smurf, more likely AGP. That’s all I’ve got. Oh, and I think “xenubarb” is somewhere in the post or caption, so a word search may bring it up.

          It’s the look of unholy glee on her face that makes it. rofl

          • dagobarbz

            I got it right here, see above.

            • richelieu jr

              Brilliant!

      • dagobarbz

        Yep!

        • Observer

          Thank you!!

        • ze moo

          Is that a chia hubbard??

          • dagobarbz

            No…but there IS a Chia Hubbard somewhere in CT…

        • BuryTheNuts2

          OMG…Keeper Barb!!!

        • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

          p r i c e l e s s

        • aussiecase

          That is awesome! Thanks!

      • http://www.facebook.com/bob.gravlin Bob Gravlin

        And I friend of mine once went to a COS center to take a free course and as he was in a silly frame of mind he rapped a brass statue of LRH on the head and was quickly escorted out of the place and was told that LRH was no joke. At least he quickly learned that these were some spooky folks and he never went back.

    • richelieu jr

      Triskadecaphobia indeed! I’d like to throw the bastard from the thirteenth floor, alright! (preuming there’s nothing higher!)

      • dagobarbz

        You’d be hard pressed to find a 13th floor in some American buildings. Because of unlucky 13, floors used to go from 12 to 14. I am not making this up!

        • richelieu jr

          What? Really? That doesn’t make any sense!

          • Nigel

            Trufax

            • richelieu jr

              But if you take away the number, there’s still a thirteenth floor! And how many of these mad people can there be, anyway? All of construction just decides ‘not above 12′?
              What about the elevators.. So they put tape over the ’13′ button?

            • Nigel

              It’s just a fact, richelleu jr, there is no 13th floor, the buttons on the elevators are 12 or 14, 15, 16

            • richelieu jr

              I am so telling everybody about this tomorrow!

            • Nigel

              I worked for a time in a cancer hospital, there was no 13th floor

          • dagobarbz
        • John Onthego

          That’s true.

      • Rick Mycroft

        The rooftop is traditional, although I imagine that the cafe is gone now.
        http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/2011/02/editor-falls-to-his-death.html

    • Nigel

      OLD post, wrong time stamp

    • ze moo

      There’s a Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd joke there some where. Cucamonga, I knew I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8TUwHTfOOU

      • dagobarbz

        Yep! Remember Bugs as the train conductor yelling out funny names? I do, obviously!

  • Mr. Fabulous

    “I feel like I’m finally off the Kool-aid for real.”

    I’m confident that quite a few more current indies will be uttering similar statements in 2013. :)

    Congratulations on your freedom, Simi.

  • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

    Welcome to freedom — the real deal this time. You’re in great company here. I have one teeny-tiny suggestion: try not to use any of the jargon you learned at hubtard’s knee. It helps tremendously to find regular-folks language to say what you want. I’ve had years to “deal” with being off the Kool-aid and I’m still decompressing. There are, of course, many excellent resources which I’m sure you already know all about. Don’t hesitate to ask for recommendations — there are very edumacated people here with such varied backgrounds. I don’t mean to sound condescending, forgive me if I do.

    • dagobarbz

      While I agree with you that speaking Hubbonics in Wogville is a bad idea, I’m afraid I have acquired Scientological language skills to the point that I understand it. And that, my friend, is disturbing!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Ah true…once you learn a language you can’t “unlearn” it.
        And once it is part of your vernacular….it takes a concerted effort to not let it sneak out.
        Especially when we do it all the time for mocking purposes.

        • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

          “once you learn a language you can’t “unlearn” it.” Wait, what? How come I can’t speak French anymore? I “learned” it — 3 years of h.s. and 2 in college.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Spend a day on the streets in Paris and you will have it all right back.
            Trust me on this.
            It is amazing what the mind can dig up when needed.

        • Mrs Libnish

          Myself, my mother and my husband all enjoy speaking Hubbonics and do it whenever possible. Others look at us as if we are crazy as we cackle madly. I call the neighbors SP’s all the time….

        • richelieu jr

          We can even have coffee, if you like!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Why Sir, one of the finest cups of coffee I ever had was while waiting for the Eurostar at Nord.
            I am suddenly missing France….. ;)

            • richelieu jr

              Yes, Eurostar coffee is quite good (as is McDonald’s IMHO), but I still think we can do better than that! ;-)

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Wonderful to read this story. I’ve seen similar snippets here and there over the last two years except the part about where they are moved from critical care over at Marty’s ranch to full release.

    It’s all about isolation. Whether it’s the school bully, the spouse abuser, or cults and companies run by psychopaths, interconnection is frowned upon, then later forbidden. I’ve found people to be amazingly resilient and tough when they need to be. Breaking a human being’s spirit requires isolation.

    In the 50′s, 60′s, and even 70′s, connection was mostly local. The outside world was only viewed on the 6 o’clock news, there were only 3 major TV stations. Newspapers were widely read and radio had large loyal audiences. Never mind no internet, there was no cable TV. School and church groups and social community small events were well attended. Families actually ate home cooked meals at meal times … together. Hubbard spent disproportionate sums and resources to silence journalists and media outlets as cable TV and later internet connections became available to the general public. By 1982 or 83 he banned TV altogether for staff and had rooms searched and confiscated. Trust me when I say this was one of The tipping points for many.

    Hubbard feared psychiatirsts because they could help him, but he loathed family because they could stop him. Disconnection was his weapon and tool to keep his customers isolated. He knew that this had to be done gradiently and over the years worked this over to a fine if evil art.

    Simi could just as easily be talking about Leaving Husband as Leaving Hubbard. The wife often is More terrified of the world “outside” of her isolated cell he’s turned the home into and of course, she is broke and thinks she can’t get an education or a job. She has turned away from her family and friends. So the true Tipping Point for any scientologist is either one thing or a basket of them that literally Tips the balance of what one is more afraid of than the other. Simi explained how she went on for years, years! terrified of reading on the internet. Victims of abuse always speak of being terrified of something or someone.

    As to the Basics being her tip, it isn’t the price of the Basics, but for most, calls would come in 20, 30 a day, at home, at work, coercion and extortion were part of the sales “hat”, and threats, always threats. Then all staff And public were deputized by Miscavige as salesman first. It became a cannibalistic feeding frenzy. That’s why “the Basics” meant the bullying intensified, all gloves off, psychotic daily stress.

    The Indies are less stress, but predictably has sunk back into increasing isolation techniques and manipulation. Anyone who says certain things, thinks a certain way, reads certain blogs, etc, etc, etc. While there may be a few hundred in this camp, the truth is that tens of thousands have left with the help of other forums and groups and often, they go off by themselves or have one ex they know who helps them through it. The blogs and forums are such a vital tool in recovery, but it is just one. Those who’ve been in for many decades and poured everything of themselves, denied themselves from everything, and few social and marketable skills, these need professional help. I’m predicting 2013 is going to be all about lawyers’ billable hours and real estate auctions.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      My god woman….you exes are on a magnificent literary roll today.
      Happy New Year!

      In fact, I need to make another cup of coffee and re-read you and Alanzo!

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      ^^^^^^^Wow. Just wow.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      I love your post. My sentiments exactly. You and John P. are definitely on fire!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=664333811 Paul Sheehan

    Free your mind and your ass will follow

  • Mr. Fabulous

    “#356 on the Indie 500 List”

    Does name #356 have a big red line through it now?!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      ^^^ That is my kinda comment there buddy!

    • Mrs Libnish

      Do they do that? How would that be different than being labeled an SP and getting your Goldenrod?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Maybe they do it nicer in indyland….like mail you a nice scenic post card as your declare.

  • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

    Congratulations, Simi Valley, on continuing to seek to live with the truth.

    It’s what got us in to Scientology, and it is what got us out of Scientology, too.

    We’re still the same people we always were, but now wiser and even more spiritually aware, having passed through the shadow of L Ron Hubbard’s mind fuck.

    Happy New Year!

    Alanzo

  • Midwest Mom

    Big cheers for Simi! I am always so impressed when former Co$ members speak out so bravely and publicly. I think that your experiences and personal stories help those who are still struggling with the fear and doubt about leaving the Co$, far more than anything else.

    When I read personal accounts from former members, there is so much concern for those still in, and it is that sincere concern that helps those of us who have never been in to understand the necessity to back you up and to help in any way that we can to aid in this effort.

    Thanks also to our friend nobs, who helps us understand that we need to see each person who is still involved in Scientology as someone who deserves our compassion, not our criticism or belittlement.

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      Ah shucks ma’am, I know you’d do the same. Amirite?

      • Midwest Mom

        Forgive me nobs, for I have sinned. I do make reference to John Travolta’s Eddie Munster hairpiece and Tom Cruise’s many oddities on web comment boards.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Whew, I was starting to think ‘Mom’ needed an intervention this time.

          • Midwest Mom

            I do need an intervention. I have started to say “lulz” in everyday conversation and my kids say, “Mom……… don’t………just don’t………”

        • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

          You’re forgiven. In fact, I’ll go a step further: celebs are fair game. Totally.

          • Midwest Mom

            Amen!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            “Sharpie hair” is always fair game!

    • sugarplumfairy

      Awww, mom.. Can’t we do just a littttle belittlement??

      • Midwest Mom

        I am hoping to belittle my waistline after eating too much fondue last night. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Badger/100000986698235 Robert Badger

    I think that in leaving Scientology, like any controlling cult, it takes time for people to come to terms with it all. I had the good fortune to read John Atack’s book early on, because I was interested in Scientology and it saved me from getting involved in the cult.

    I was raised in the Mormon church, so I can appreciate how hard it is to get out of the mindset. Growing up, I had a very black and white view of the world. It was hard coming to terms with the idea than the real world doesn’t work like that, and that there are also varying shades of grey. The founder of Mormonism was a lying, philandering, con man

  • Kim O’Brien

    what a great way to start 2013 – good for you Simi …!! Congrats and i hope more and more stories like this pop up this year. Being an “indie” is the same as being ” a little bit pregnant” ….happy for you and hope you have a great New Year

    • Cheshire

      “Being an “indie” is the same as being ‘a little bit pregnant’”

      Except for the isolation, black PR, disconnection policy, financial destruction, Sea Org, ethics, KRs, ban on verbal tech… I could keep going.

      • Kim O’Brien

        All laid out by LRH himself …after all ..how do you clear an entire planet without them ? Some will go ahead and knock themselves out with good ole gentle Marty …the guy who LOVED having that job. I for one will continue to root for the ones who have the guts to really get out and free their minds from acting like a hamster on a wheel . ( and give props to kids like Derek )

        • Cheshire

          They can worship Dracula or Skeletor for all I care, as long as the human rights abuse stops.

          • Kim O’Brien

            LOL…Skeletor ..;) I used to love those cartoons when i was a kid. When South Park did their Trapped in the Closet episode..their Xenu story totally reminded me of them

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            The problem with Scientology is that one of its core beliefs is that if anything bad happens to someone, it’s that person’s fault. I don’t see how any organization with that idea can be anything but a nightmare.

            • coonellie

              There are almost 900 million Hindus who share that core belief…I think they call it karma ;)

            • Nigel

              It’s different, however, with scientology. For scilons, the concept of “sin” is disagreeing with a superior.

            • coonellie

              Sort of like being a CO$ untouchable, I suppose.

            • Nigel

              It’s not like the hindu rankings, more like who has the most money. Tom cruise is treated like a Brahmin, even though he has low intelligence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

    http://exscn.net/content/view/29/88/1/3/index.html This is a touching essay on coming off the kool aide. Its long but the last page sums it up beautifully. I am always coming across these treasures. Simi, I think you would like it.

  • JustCallMeMary

    Glad she’s out completely. BTW, for those thinking her name is a nic, Simi used to be known as Simi Pflueger and Simi Kaprow

    http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/s/simi-pflueger.html

    http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/s/simi-valley.html

  • JustCallMeMary

    Lots of unanswered comments on Marty’s article from some of the non-indie good guys of her past. Simi may want to look them over.
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/simi-valley/

  • ze moo

    The week long holiday means lots of people go to the movies. How did Tom Cruise do??

    1. “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey,” Warner Bros., $31,960,000, 4100 locations, $7,795 average, $221,743,000, three weeks.
    2. “Django Unchained,” Weinstein Co., $30,122,888, 3010 locations, $10,008 average, $63,443,153, one week.
    3. “Les Miserables,” Universal, $27,281,735, 2814 locations, $9,695 average, $66,720,160, one week.
    4. “Parental Guidance,” Fox, $14,554,053, 3367 locations, $4,323 average, $29,342,745, one week.
    5. “Jack Reacher,” Paramount, $14,010,000, 3352 locations, $4,180 average, $44,661,000, two weeks.
    6. “This Is 40,” Universal, $12,501,060, 2914 locations, $4,290 average, $36,431,350, two weeks.
    7. “Lincoln,” Disney, $7,337,362, 1966 locations, $3,732 average, $131,867,159, eight weeks.

    Jack Reacher will probably make money, but not a lot. Please note that “This is 40″ started its first week at only 20 or so theaters. There was a lot of tv advertising for Reacharound last Thursday and Friday. A large ad budget may have saved Paramount’s alimentary canal.

    • Cheshire

      I can’t believe I forgot this comment for the Sunday Funnies:

      “ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS HAD NO WAY TO REACH AROUND – WE DO”

  • richelieu jr

    Great name Simi, and a great story!

    Everybody waling on eggshells about calling Hubbard what he was gets on my wick!
    (though i have scarcely more patience for Rathburn and company)

  • CoolHand

    I can relate. Waking up is quite a process. I’m sure it can be even more difficult the higher one goes up “The Bridge”. The fact that so many people on OT VII and through OT VIII have walked away from Scientology was a huge factor for me to continue finding out more in my own journey.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.bumpas Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

    What a great story to help kick off the new year! I hope it is a sign of good things to come. Congratulations Simi Valley, for getting “out”! I hope all is treating you well in life & you have a happy new Year!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Beatty/1631176570 Chuck Beatty

    Tony,

    Happy New Years.

    Thanks so much for keeping tabs and maybe from time to time, someone ought survey the ex Scientology membership for how many others are like Simi.

    I hope this story encourages more people.

    People who call me, I refer them to the UN Declaration of Human Rights article number 18, and use the Hubbard acceptable policy “good roads and fair weather” in handling how to exit Scientology:

    “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief…….”

    I don’t think it will happen this coming year, but to me, major progress that would make life around Scientology dramatically less heartbreaking would be if official Scientology:

    a) Majorly dismantled their Office of Special Affairs (OSA), and it’s files kept on members and enemies were all shredded.

    b) Overall evolves into the more tolerant (squirrelly) behavior of the independent Scientology movement members, who don’t have an OSA and don’t engage in organized family breakup shunning.

    Also what I don’t think will happen this coming year, but which would be up the road major progress, will be when the top two councils evolve to the point where they are capable of making major reform decisions internally.

    If official Scientology can make major internal lightening up changes, like a cancelling of all their shunning orders (suppressive person declare orders), and dismantling their OSA files and operations majorly, that’d make major positive news and goodwill.

    But that would take a non tyrant run top management echelon, which sadly had not ever evolved into being, and there’s only a tiny speck of hope that such a reformed top management of the church will happen in the near future.

    The two top management persons to study and submit the reform of OSA and reform of the shunning policy, should be two people in Hubbard’s final top management echelon setups. One is Watchdog Committee Member for OSA, and the other is Establishment Executive International (EEI is that position’s nickname).

    But I doubt the state of “top management” at the Int Base, Hemet headquarters is even close to this reform mindset as the group of top management personnel I’ve seen, none are capable of this level of strategic reform decision making. And especially even if they did propose the necessary reform, Miscavige would block it as long as he’s alive. (And I’m sure others in the top bunch would agree with Miscavige, and not because he’s dominating them, but because of all else Hubbard has written to the top leaders that effects their mindset to NOT allow the major reforms that the movement needs to make.)

    So, the big trend is, as always, the world changes around such a totalitarian tightly controlled group, but not within the group, which is stuck in the ruts of that group’s founder. .

    I’m just glad there is so much sharing of raw info about Scientology, sitting on the internet now.

    Chuck Beatty
    866-XSEAORG

    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
    I always wanted to work in a support role in the “think tank” Exec Strata, but never made it.

    • Deckard__Cain

      Chuck, the reform that you outline above means the repudiation, rejection and official deletion of many Hubbard policies, and this is strictly forbidden (yes, you guessed it) under yet another Hubbard policy.

      No watchdog group can fix the totalitarian nature built into Scientology’s DNA and I can’t imagine any external impartial supervisory group signing off on the pseudo-science driven, potentially harmful practices such as the TRs or the toxic levels of vitamins given in the purif process. It simply is too much of a legal liability for any impartial third party to sign off on these dangerous practices.

      I really don’t see how Scientology can be reformed at all.

      • DeElizabethan

        Me neither.

  • mattekudasai

    Happy New Year to Tony and our team of postulating apostates and infidels. Lively action in the “ring” by our stellar Tag-Teams. Body slams to the scam. Miscavige soon be on the lamb.

    Welcome Simi to our home. Lots of love, support ,laughter, tears,banter, fine arguments and an occasional ball-busting.Some leave with their tails between their legs, but we always invite them back….for more!

  • DeElizabethan

    Good for you Simi. I can relate very much to you in many parts. I really think that in the time it takes to research and find the truth, most indies will see it eventually… Have a very Happy, Positive New Year, Dee

  • InTheNameOfXenu

    Simi’s story here is about coming full circle. She has returned to her native state of herself. She is back to herself before Hubbard’s corrosive ideology took over her. It’s a shame that it took her this long to realize, but it’s good that she is finally out 100%. John P. is right that the indie movement is acting as a halfway house for people leaving the cult. Marty is accelerating the exit from people leaving Hubbard’s insanity whether he realizes it himself or not. He’s encouraging his flock to read other philosophies other than Scientology and that is blasphemy in Hubbard’s eye.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    Happy New Year everyone!  

    I woke up early with an urge to do some writing about something I read a while back.  It might be of interest to y’all.   Here it is — a new post about consent in the context of cults:
    http://venusamaris.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/engineering-consent-why-do-people-stay-in-scientologys-hole/

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      It’s an important issue/topic: engineering consent. Your insights are very helpful as is the excerpt from the Tourish and Irving paper. It seems to me there are three areas that are always going to come up: how are people pulled into cults and then “held” there? what is the event or realization that starts them on the path away from the cult? and how does one heal or reclaim one’s self and dignity?

      • DeElizabethan

        “how are people pulled into cults and then “held” there?” Since the latest thread seems a bit stopped I went to read Margery Wakefield’s latest book “Damaged Lives” (available on Amazon soon).
        Zowie, I always thought the TR 0 was pretty good for me, being shy, but see now that that is the beginning of the whole hypnosis part of it.
        Damn, I can confront people and life better now since connecting up to the truth as finally revealed to me from the internet and books. The other was just an ability to look at someone, be robotic, not knowing I was hypnotized, never entered my mind. ha, ha, ha.

        • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

          Yes. The TRs are deceptive. They SEEM to be so beneficial but in fact, are tools for manipulating and controlling. They teach a good bubble-head how to BE controlled. I thought I was getting some truly useful information and skills. It’s sometimes hard to go back through all the rubbish I accumulated whilst “in”. But it’s much better to chuck this crap out than continue to believe it does anyone any good. Simi’s decision to walk away from hubtard and all his ‘teachings’ is the best decision she can make. Now she can have a virtual garage sale.

          • Nigel

            Question: Simi used the indies as a “safe” landing zone. I think most are pleased and would agree that it’s best that she sells all her old LRH crap in a garage sale, BUT…. was that indie landing zone useful? To me, never having been “in” it does seem useful, like a means to an end.

            However, you will find posters who equate the indies with the devil. Go figure.

            • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

              I think each person has to find her own way out — even if that “out” is only out of organized scn. It’s still better than “in.” When I reached the point where I could not tolerate the insanity and control one more second, I just slammed the door on everything having to do with hubtard. I looked it all over and decided I’d been royally conned and I’d have to live with that. Not everyone wants to go that route. It isn’t for you or me to say. Useful? Very likely.

              btw, by virtual garage sale I was sort of making a joke — you know, getting rid of the clutter in her brain/mind. But selling e-meters, books and cds is also good. I was thrilled when I actually found a buyer for my e-meter on Ebay. wooohoooo

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Awesome!

            • Nigel

              I hope you sold it to that electrical engineer on YouTube who performs “e-meter dissections.”

              That guy is cool.

            • DeElizabethan

              The indies can be useful to me to buy some of the Chronological Series shit I bought and some old meters.

            • Nigel

              You should be able to unload that stuff on ebay?

            • DeElizabethan

              Sounds easy, but can’t do it myself to be blunt, but thanks and you are right.

            • Nigel

              Find a 18 year old to do it (e-bay is second nature to them), and give them 5%, win/win

            • DeElizabethan

              I’d give 25% to anyone reliable. Or jut give super deal to any indie, only problem is they may have most of the shit. It’s in the finding that I’m needy.

            • Sandy

              Does to me too, nobs. I read Marty’s blog most ever day. Some of those folks are forever “in” probably. But, many are just landing in a soft spot, IMO.

    • Nigel

      Great blog post. Very good points to be remembered. Everyone should check it out.

  • DeElizabethan

    Discus seems to be having quite a day! Let’s see out this goes. Happy New Year Discus, DeE

  • Deckard__Cain

    I dare Marty Rathbun to link to this story on his blog instead of the gross self-congratulating display of his site hits. Come on, Marty, I DARE YOU.

    He won’t do it. Acknowledging Simi’s story would put a small crack in his big ole wall of denial.

    • Nigel

      I don’t know, he posts buddhist and hindu and other non-scientology stuff. At this point, I think he does really want to be a well-versed multicultural theologian. I could be wrong.

      • Deckard__Cain

        He usually posts those things by dead Asian guys because Hubbard had a way of also incorporating Eastern philosophies into his works so he’s following by example. And what he quotes typically has a way of underscoring whatever pro-LRH, pro-Tech point he’s trying to make. Simi’s story is overtly anti-LRH and the frank truth about their beloved leader and not likely going to wind up as a discussion point on a blog where this type of criticism is rabidly abhorred.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Beatty/1631176570 Chuck Beatty

    Hubbard has stuck Scientology with the problem of future “Hubbards” that will now forever be coming to Scientology churches wishing to get back to work, and to claim the Hubbard “archives” as their own!

    Too bad Sweeney couldn’t have found such a new young “Hubbard” to take along with him, to the New Mexico Hubbard archives site, and film that encounter!

  • ArtoisDetois

    Wow – Tony, it says your site is getting too much bandwidth. Are there restrictions on your account?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Bandwidth is dee debil…..why I can’t listen to vis’s at work….damn it to hell!

    • TonyOrtega

      Looks like we hooked a big fish. Not sure yet where the spike is coming
      from or to which article. The geeks have been notified.

      • ArtoisDetois

        There is a ton of interest in the CST story – there have been nearly 1000 comments in the recent Huff Po article about the CST. Maybe that awesome video posted in your comments, with the low flyover, set to Steely Dan, is driving some referrals!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Love that video!

          • Nigel

            So I watched that video, and it’s interesting the music overlaps just a hint with the M*A*S*H theme song, and so does the brush terrain, and also the “helicopter” view. Wasn’t MASH filmed in SoCal?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Dunno, I just loved the rendition of third world man and the super cool flyover… I try not to over think things.

  • HeatherGraceful

    I don’t personally think one can describe the indie movement only as a half-way house for people leaving scientology altogether. It certainly has been that for some people. However, for others, it has not been that. They’ve been indies for years. For others, the indie movement appears to have rejuvenated their scientology. Bear in mind that the indie movement is decades old.

    One minor change I’d suggest is altering the verb in this phrase to the present tense: “Debbie Cook was a legendary former executive…”

    Good for Simi.

    • Nigel

      I thought the long-term cherry-pickers called themselves Freezoners.

  • http://www.facebook.com/VictoriaPandora Victoria Pandora

    the internets are glitchy.

  • Nigel

    Time stamps on posts are now erroneous.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Interesting,,,,!

  • Pam Winters

    Hi, all:

    Can someone explain this to me? From Simi’s declaration on Marty’s blog:

    “In the past dozen or so years I experienced many health issues which I attribute to Reverse Scientology, courtesy of the Flag Service Org; however, recently I was lucky enough to treat with an alternative health care practitioner who helped me restore my health.”

    What’s “Reverse Scientology”?

    Thanks.

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      Using scn processes and methods to hurt people — doing it wrong. Others will give you better definitions, but you can always ask google. Google knows a lot.

      • Pam Winters

        Thanks.

    • stillgrace

      The ultimate example of “Reverse Scientology” or “Black Dianetics” is what happened to Lisa McPherson under the direct supervision of David Miscavige.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    New OT V III post just released on his blog!,

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      Come again?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Ot8… Unfamiliar?

      • BuryTheNuts2
        • Nigel

          That’s just Miscabige’s blog. You can tell by his picture. He’s so predictable, always obviously pro-scientology. He’s trying to promote a scilon bar he opened in Tijuana.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Lulz….my hero!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Besides Tijuana has its ….uh…good points

            • Nigel

              Yeah, like if you stay overnight you can’t donate blood for a year!! How cool is that?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ooh u been there?

            • Nigel

              A couple of times, for a Sunday. It’s cheap, but it’s not free.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              ;)

              Note the semi colon!

            • John P.

              Nigel, you get extra points for working in the Steely Dan reference there… we already got one going from the final track on Steely Dan’s “Gaucho” album, and now you’ve worked in a lyric on the lead-off track, “Babylon Sisters.” Good show!

            • Nigel

              Turn that music jungle music down

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Nigel, gets extra points? I am verklempt?

            • Nigel

              I gotta see a joker, but I’ll be right back

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Lulz!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hey, I got a cool tattoo in cabo!

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    Good for you!

    As to Scientology having something good: Hubbard stole and twisted his ideas from other sources. I recommend going to those sources, rather than trying to scrape Hubbard’s vileness off from the cloudy, bubbled mirror of Scientology. You might find Taoism extremely interesting, for instance.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Or Crowley?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Hehehehe

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        Sure. Crowley’s actually pretty interesting. Totally batshit, but interesting.

        Of course, Crowley also stole from other sources and completely twisted them. So if someone were interested in some of the spiritual stuff Crowley said, I’d point them to ancient Egyptian religion. They might learn some critical thinking skills along the way.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          You could keep pointing in arbitrary directions. It’s all regurgitated crap….so who cares.
          At least Crowley added a modicum of originality to his bloviations…..unlike Hubbard

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            Crowley to ancient Egyptian religion is not arbitrary. Crowley’s false ideas of ancient Egyptian religion were central to his beliefs. So if someone is interested in the ridiculous knock-off, point them to the real thing.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Whatever dearest. To each her own! Ridiculous notwithstanding.

        • Nigel

          Crowley was as weak and pathetic as Hubbard. They both perished miserably.

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            What does perishing miserably have to do with anything? This is not in defense of Crowley, whom I do not like (though I think he was better than Hubbard, at least he believed his own crap), but plenty of wonderful people die horribly. Dying is not usually a gentle and kind thing.

            • Nigel

              I suppose it depends on what your definition of “perishing miserably” is…..popping pinks and greys in solitude after alienating all your children and wives and other family…well, that sounds lonely and miserable

            • BuryTheNuts2

              We should all be nice kiddies…..it’s a brand new year ;)

  • aussiecase

    This is an excellent story.

    I also think that for many people the Indie community is a way-stop, but for some it can become a way of life that is similar to Scientology.

    Changing ones social group so as to not only associate with those who believe in Hubbard’s BS was a big step in the right direction.

    Best wishes for the new year to everyone especially Simi Valley!

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC checked our records and found that Simi Valley was never a
    Scientologist. Upon investigation it has been found that she was a plant
    sent in by the Psychs along with a handful of others. These people
    tried to harm the Church but failed. Since they were declared SP’s and
    thrown out, the Church has boomed and gone into Affluence on all
    dynamics.

    Moreover, overall membership increased 25,318% in 2013,
    thus making Scientology the fastest growing religion in world history.

    But don’t take our word for it; come in and see Scientology’s
    miracles for yourself today.

    Come in and see all of the beautiful people who are Scientologists.

    Come in and find out why all of the beautiful people are Scientologists.

    If you take a free Personality Test, we in the Church of Scientology will
    find your ruin. Once your ruin has been found, you will feel better. You
    can then admit to yourself that you are a Degraded Being desperately in
    need of the help that only the Church of Scientology can offer.

    Your ruin having been found, our regges will cave you in for 12 intensives
    of Life Repair and a Basics Library. Once you are so equipped and
    running well of Life Repair, you are better able to donate to the IAS –
    and ideally to make a heroic and bankrupting donation that will
    guarantee that Scientology will be here in your next life.

    So, in order to conclude by way of summarizing:

    1. Everyone here is lying about Scientology. You will all die alone and in the dark.

    2. The Church of Scientology is the only group that has the answers.

    3. What is salvation? Salvation is the donation you make to the IAS today.

    Thank you.

    • Nigel

      How can I flow more to my account to improve my spiritual freedom? Can a third mortgage help upgrade my beingness?

    • Midwest Mom

      Mr. George Baillie, I presume? I would recognize that laugh anywhere. You are a You Tube star, now, but it’s so nice to see you mingling with us here. Happy New Year!

      • sugarplumfairy

        Thanks for that link.. Lol.. Cob saves US from fiscal cliff..

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      So true OTVIIIIisGr8! I’m so caved in that I’ll crawl to the nearest Idle Morg and give them everything I have. Bwahahahahaha!

  • Nigel

    I have never met Napolean. But I plan to find the time.

  • Patty Moher

    I’m so happy to hear that Simi is all the way out of the cult. Fortunately, Marty Rathbun and the Indies are just a stepping stone for many of the people that leave.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bob.gravlin Bob Gravlin

    For most of us the process of letting go of some of the stupid things we once believed in is a process and part of that is to evaluate what we were once taught to believe and reevaluate in in view of our new learnings and changing beliefs. Keep up the search for what is true Simi. And thanks for sharing your journey.

  • Theo Sismanides

    No matter what one or more people do or say, no matter what Miscavige does to alter Scientology, no matter what Hubbard was/has been, one point remains: Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge of the human mind and spirit on planet earth and when applied standardly it yields results. All the rest is just discussions and attempts to minimize a subject that can help man, despite of churches, Indies, scams etc. I think that someone who has been suppressed so much and suddenly finds quite some freedom can make their own decision and abandon something altogether. Everyone has this right. (Two rights of a thetan: the right to his own sanity and the right to leave a game). To make this a big issue and present it as a trend is not right however. The truth is there is two categories of people leaving Scientology. A. Those who leave with their understanding but not necessarily an understanding of the materials, B. Those who leave because of the suppression of the church with an understanding of the materials and want still to apply it in their lives to a bigger or lesser degree.

    • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

      Bollocks!

      • Theo Sismanides

        yeah right, see the problem on this planet is that people cannot confront the isness of things. They say Bollocks or similar things when they have no argument to base their disagreements upon, which mainly stem from their negation to see anything further than what they want to know. Still, it remains that the isness of things on this planet is that Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge there is upon the human mind and thus there has been all those years such a flood of people endorsing Scientology. One Bollocks doesn’t say anything… Scientology has been established on this planet and now with the Indie Movement is going once more to see a further expansion. It’s only natural as a better system of philosophy or even religion is needed. If you would compare religions still you would find that even Scientology under the Miscavige regime is far better and more open than a lot. That does not mean that I endorse the Miscavige regime. Far from that.

        • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

          Media lush makes an assertion that your statement is bollocks without any argument.

          You made an assertion that Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge there is upon the human mind without any argument.

          So far you are equal except that media lush wins the prize for succintness.

          • jensting

            And you run away with the most snarkyness :)
            Theo, you use the word “fact” a lot. Are you sure it means what you think it means?
            Seriously, happy new year and keep trying.

            • Theo Sismanides
            • sugarplumfairy

              You seem upset tonight, Theo.. Hope you’re ok.. You’re not going to convince anyone here to delve into scientology teachings.. We’ve already investigated it.. We already know its crap.. I’m sorry.. Love you.. Abhor your religion..

            • jensting

              HiTheo! You’re quite right, I should have made fun of your use of the word “isness” in the following: “Still, it remains that the isness of things on this planet is that Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge there is upon the human mind and thus there has been all those years such a flood of people endorsing Scientology”

              All you’re saying is that you have the opinion “that Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge.” Bully for you, and I don’t expect you to accept my opinion that it IS NOT any more than you should expect me to accept your opinion that it IS.

              Your use of “fact” in the following is problematic “So don’t look for “scientists”, look for valid observations John and the thousands of people who are in Scientology are your valid observations. If you don’t wanna accept this as a fact and a proof…I am truly sorry, it is your problem”

              What is the problem? That you get to decide what is the “valid observation.” That removes your statements from “fact.”

              Nice use of dictionary definitions. Number 5 is particularly applicable You’re presenting an opinion as if it were a fact.

              I’ll tell you what is a fact: The James Randi foundation has (for decades) had a million dollars available to any person who can demonstrate any paranormal ability. Most “OT powers” fall neatly in the category of abilities which the Randi foundation tests for. It is a fact that no scientologist of any kind whatsoever has won that money. Those are facts. Look at http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html Now anyone with actual paranormal abilities who chose not to win that money (so as to donate the winnings to an actual charity – or to the IAS for all I care), is missing a golden PR opportunity.

              Until any scientologist comes up with something better than Jeff Hall remote helping a woman in Bulgravia (or whereever) as a demonstration of “OT abilities” you, and they, are just going to have to put up with a certain amount of fun getting poked at them. If that is a problem for you, maybe there’s something other than scientology which can help you with that.

              Oh, and anyone who sees value in the so-called “study tech” please explain, if you can, what the following sentence means: “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.” Thank you :)

            • Theo Sismanides

              Jensting, obviously I cannot prove that thousands of such observations around the globe exist and are valid fact. You can read in magazines or some papers about Scientologists making such observations and having wins.

              The only way we can agree it is a fact is if someone here would read and apply Scientology the way many people do. I am sorry. There is no other way. What is a fact for me right now is not a fact for someone else who does not experience the same thing with me right now.

              So “facts” tend to be disbelieved or even made up. I have experienced such Facts, people having wins because of the Tech for 20 years now. The last 10 years I am not in the church but still I do have experiences of people who had such wins.

              Now, on paranormal abilities: It is true that no Scientologists demonstrate any paranormal abilities. Still it remains that they do exhibit quite some Normal ones.

              Jensting, it all depends what one is looking for. Being stuck on paranormal makes us forget the normal. You can say this is a nice way of me to avoid the subject. No! I am not looking for a god anymore, I am not looking for a genius or someone who can understand colorless green ideas. I use the study tech to educate my children to think and not be stopped by words. I am not into colorless paranormal green fields or dreams anymore. I want to help my fellow man so I make sure he doesn’t go bananas in a world which IS going mad. That’s all I care. Sorry to disappoint you but gradients apply even for Thetans. I don’t see too many who could demonstrate a big enough responsibility not to start moving things around or make them vanish but to start Undoing a corrupt system here on Earth which dominates souls and controls minds for thousands of years now.

              At least a Scientologist (I am not necessarily speaking about those in the church because for the last years they are indoctrinated into being good boys and good girls) can think out of That Box. And this is what I care about. And that’s my purpose in this lifetime. To educate thetans enough so that they can be out of the box. That’s enough good for me and keeps my conscience and happiness in place.

          • sugarplumfairy

            And Media wins for accuracy as well..

          • Theo Sismanides

            If you are no idiot and you can read Scientology then you can find out for yourself, I am not going to do the job for you guys… so go read and find out. Scientology needs no arguments… if you need arguments go read and find out…. and then come and talk here against it.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Happy New Year, Theo!

          • Theo Sismanides

            Hey, Happy New Year with lots of Bollocks, BuryTheNUts2!

        • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

          Bollocks with knobs on!

          • Theo Sismanides

            And then they add knobs on them to keep on being right! Happy New Year!

          • Theo Sismanides

            hey, you are enriching your vocabulary… you added “with knobs on”! Wow…. I am impressed. I must have really impinged on you! Keep it up! One late day you will… aaaarrive…. somehow!

      • Theo Sismanides

        I wouldn’t expect from ignorant people to express themselves in any other way. Why don’t you go read the Vedas, see if you can make anything out of it?

        Westerns are a danger as they are too ignorant to go any deeper in anything than make jokes out of them. Just read something of value and stop being an ignorant Homo Sap! Dahhh!

    • mattekudasai

      There is another category of people leaving scientology:C. Those who leave with the understanding that it is not necessary to force themselves any longer to make or fake sense of org loads of materials and practices conjured from one man’s mind as the only one true way to develop the human mind and spirit.

      By whom’s assessment do you dare to state Scientology as the most advanced and best codified knowledge of the human mind and spirit on planet earth. I dare to state L Ron Hubbard’s works will NOT find themselves in the lists of the great philosophers or spiritual leaders in this millennium or any other. He is not a savouir of mankind, he is not God, hell most of us millions in the world would not even want to call him our friend. Give it up trying to convince us this thing he created called Scientology would work if it wasn’t for the dummies who keep fucking it up. Your flogging a dead horse. Stop it. It won’t and can’t be reborn. Cherish your memories and allow yourself to move forward using what worked for you and please allow us to follow our own paths to find meaning to our lives. How dare you presume to know my salvation. Sincerely yours.

      • Theo Sismanides

        I am not trying to convince anybody and I don’t think there are dead horses around to flog. And I am not trying to salvage anybody here as their salvation will come from them alone. Allow you to follow your own paths to find meaning to your lives? I do, I allow you. What I can’t allow is not shed some light into those paths and be stopped by some bold attitudes based on no coherent arguments that Scientology is not a philosophy but is a cult. If those people with those attitudes had studied earnestly the materials and had taken the strains I took to understand myself and others, then I would be ok. And I would say those people didn’t see what I saw. But most of them, not having read and gone through what I have gone through, just come and say words that do not reflect the truth. The truth is that thousands of people have followed Scientology one way or another. Are they or were they all morons? And many still do either in the church or outside. Are we all morons? There must be something else to it then. The problem is that Homo Sapiens cannot read fast and assimilate data. He has to be fed data. So the volume of the Scientology materials are not palatable to him. So there is no easy way for him to get a deeper understanding. So he is fed “understandings”. He will never SEE for himself. Either he doesn’t dare because he is stuck on this fixed idea that he shouldn’t or he doesn’t want to. It’s his decision.

        So as others write here I guess I am free to write, too.

        • DeElizabethan

          Hey Theo, Happy New Year!
          Nice discourse here. You sound like an “only one” to have read all the materials, Ron is an “only one” to write it up, his materials are the “only one” to save mankind in it’s superior way and Scientology is the “only one”. Look up what ole’ Ron say’s himself about an “only one” and then you will see why the organization is doomed to fail as they are the “only one”. That’s their attitude and how they operate IMO.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Dear Elizabeth, I see you on Marty’s, putting some likes on some posts… I am an Indie too…. so, do I get any likes, too? I may sound to your ears as the only one, I never claimed to be though. But it looks like (I dare not believe it at least) that all the people who write all those things here have read and experienced as much as I have. Otherwise they would comment at least more mildly about the Tech. The Organisation is being reborn through the Indies. I don’t care about the church unless I see real change.

            Mankind doesn’t want to be saved…. so who cares… you can see mankind and it’s ways lately, war after war, killing after killing… I think I am ok with my conscience as things go. The church has been taken over, the Indies apply what they can, people don’t wanna better their lives to a degree that their comfort is going to be tampered with, so… everything IS ok. So, who wants to save the planet, now? All I care is that nobody shuts me up… Scientology IS the most advanced knowledge about the human mind and spirit on planet earth. I wish each one here would come out and say how much he/she has read of Scientology much less understood about it. I did 6 TV shows here in Greece with people who had read excerpts of Scientology mostly. Still they had an opinion about it. The point is it WAS an opinion, their opinion and not a FACT. The face is that thousands of people apply Scientology and endorse it. And not all of them (us) are morons. Does anyone care to discuss this? Or are we just to break each other’s back?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Correction, the following should read:

              But it looks like (I dare not believe it at least) that all the people who write all those things here have NOT read and experienced as much as I have.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Theo, you seem like such a sweet and sincere guy..

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks a lot honey… I do like the people here… this is why I am staying… I just wanna disqus… hahahaha with them… sometimes I get a bit nasty but only they get nasty on me or on reasoning…. I would like to know how much people have read and done in Scientology (not referring to the church only) to speak about it in such an nullifying way.

              Thanks again for your kind words, I enjoy talking to people here.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Theo, I don’t have to try crack to know it’s not good for me.. The facts and research are out there.. I just have to access it..

              And I’m glad you’re staying..

            • DeElizabethan

              Yes I do have at least one favorite on Marty’s blog and many more on other blogs and that is my snarky right. I’m stating the new year with having snarky opinions, just because I can. I’m singing the lovely song, “Only You”, one of my old favorites.
              Happy, Happy New Year!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Oh, Elizabeth as a song I take it…. “Only You”! Let’s dance together…. Happy New Year!!!!

        • 0tessa

          You are absolutely very welcome and free to state your opinion. I respect your opinion, though I do not share it.
          Question: what do you mean by ‘he has to be fed data’? Are you saying that people cannot evaluate data for themselves? How did you conclude that ‘He will never SEE for himself’?
          Sincerely,

          • Theo Sismanides

            0tessa, if you see the educational level of this planet and you can see this by the governments that exist (what a joke) and that he elects as governments you could see that people are fed data and they don’t really LOOK for themselves. The condition of the planet is pathetic, there is constant wars and constant “reasons” for wars. Soldiers obey and go and fight because they think they serve some good purpose. But behind all this is control and money and petrol. This is being fed data not really LOOKing for yourself. One example…. there is more.

        • sugarplumfairy

          “…are we all morons?..”

          many smart people fall prey to talented con men and their scams.. lrh was good scam artist.. And co$ may just be the “most advanced and best codified” scam on planet earth..

          The only thing worse than falling victim to a scam and sacrificing your money and your life for 20 years is falling victim to a scam and sacrificing your money and your life for 20 years and one day.. (a variation on a theme by Dr. Phil..)

          • Theo Sismanides

            Yeah, yeah, yeah… LRH was this… LRH was that… LRH was a good scam artist… please people when you address me next time, each one of you tell me what you have read much less understood of LRH…. I will start doing check outs here…. lol… ok AS IS what does it mean? Have you ever experienced an AS ISness in auditing or even without auditing? Win did you ever have a win in terms of alleviating a somatic? Now seriously… did you ever manage to turn off a headache or some pain? Oooh, come on now… here is kindergarden stuff… each one here needs to be taken by the hand and taken to his/her mama otherwise they burst into tears because bad Hubbard came along and frightened them up… oh bad, bad Hubbard… why do you scare those little kids here?

            Now seriously can you tell me what is your “expertise” and knowledge of Scientology? The last person I asked did not answer to me yet. Thanks.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I hope I can never claim ‘expertise’ in scientology.. I would much rather spend my time enjoying my life than doing monotonous drills and being audited and sec-checked and reading drivel written by the untalented mr. hubbard.. And yes, I have managed to turn off a headache–and it didn’t cost me $40..

              If it soothes you to live in denial, my friend, then so be it.. But don’t resent me for being circumspect and prudent enough to avoid the huge, gaping, dangerous pothole of scientology..

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t live in denial or even resent You. My Affinity is high and this is how it comes out now. Naturally. Keep going! And no denials. Objections yes…. and disagreements yes. That’s life, we don’t all have the same viewpoints but that does not mean that we cannot at one point of time look at what another is actually looking and get the word. All the rest are just opinions and I hate it (oh yes here is denial, not for You but for opinions thrown in as facts) for others to believe they are facts. A fact is something that remains no matter what. Something that has happened, is happening…. An opinion is something someone thinks has happened but has not. Big difference.

              Obviously our Realities are way different. But still I hope that if we see a dog in the street we are all going to say it’s a dog in the street.

              As we move on into more complex things and because of Life and our experiences we tend to think and see differently. But we can always come back to the dog in the street and agree upon something. And then we see….

            • sugarplumfairy

              I like you so much, Theo.. I can feel how sincere and genuine you are.. I get that you see problems in the world and you want to be a force for good in resolving those problems.. but scientology will never be the vehicle to get you there.. no matter what they advertise, all you’ll ever get is regged..

            • DeElizabethan

              One of many facts, it is that the big new ideal orgs are not ideal, but very idle, meaning empty for there size or planned activities. I’ve seen a few.
              Theo may be regging for his own version, just a thought.

            • Theo Sismanides

              That’s the best comment for me lady… that makes me feel good. Let Scientology aside… YOU WILL UNDERSTAND SOME OF IT BETTER from me the humble theo!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Sorry about the very late reply sugarplumfairy and thanks for the kind words. Without tiring you scientology is a set of tools, at least to me. That it is represented by Miscavige so badly is not my fault or scientology’s fault.

              I cannot understand how people cannot differentiate between the church and the knowledge scientology gives and is by itself. This is all I care about. That that knowledge can be known and used by others.

              I once again wanna thank you for being polite, gentle and caring. Politeness after all is the mark that we are moving ahead or not. This is our meeting point as beings with different perspectives and viewpoints and different lingo etc. etc. So, communicating despite of all this, surely gives me great joy!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Theo, the problem isn’t separating the knowledge from the church.. It’s separating lrh’s intention from everything else.. What you call the knowledge is a system of training routines and mind manipulation designed for only one thing: to make you susceptible and malleable.. I truly hope you keep reading the truth about lrh, Scientology and it’s tech.. The real knowledge is out here for you..

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am sorry, this is where our Realities deviate. You are sweet as a sugarplumfairy and i really like the way you talk to people. however, i keep my own viewpoint having read a lot more than a lot of people here. I am sorry they can only criticize instead of even learning how to deliver an assist to alleviate some pain.

              You know I do those assists to many people and I do get results? Do I hypnotise them? LOL. Nooo…. it’s just that it works and people who know nothing about scientology do feel alleviated from pain. So? What am I going to do? Think about LRH? Noooo… I don’t care… I just think about this knowledge and how I apply it to the benefit of some people.

            • sugarplumfairy

              What you call touch assist is something called Reiki, first used in 1922.. lrh stole that knowledge as well as the rest of his tech..

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

              And I like how you talk to people too, Theo.. You seem very kind.. That’s why I get so upset by scientology.. Soooo many of the people in Scientology who have been financially and spiritually manipulated are wonderful, kind people..

            • Theo Sismanides

              hey, don’t be upset! It’s ok! As to the Reiki, I am sorry, those are not the same techniques as the assists. You may want to argue further in which case i would refer you to the assists booklet which I can send you by email so that you see the extent of the assists. They are called assists because they sometimes treat the body instead of treating directly the spiritual being and sometimes they are used on an immediate basis as an… assist for a serious situation.

              You see, I don’t want to argue but telling me that Reiki techniques are the same makes me wonder about the ability to differentiate. don’t be offended, it’s just my thoughts and I see that at least we have to agree on what is what and at least differentiate between various things. Yes, Hubbard “stole” a lot of things according to many. According to me he used those things in a new workable way. but I cannot (and don’t want to) convince anyone.

            • sugarplumfairy

              =)

              Be happy, Theo..

            • Theo Sismanides

              Yes, I am happy when I find some little truths and can see things AS THEY ARE. Not as i am told… you see Reiki… has nothing to do with the Assists… unless you don’t know what those assists really are. Did you ever receive any?

            • sugarplumfairy

              I don’t need touch assists.. I’m very healthy.. Besides, I have ibuprofen..

            • DeElizabethan

              LoL, ibuprofen is excellent and it works.

            • Theo Sismanides

              ok sugarplumfairy… I am happy that we can talk and speak our minds without going into antagonism. That’s a win for me and it is also a win that I hear you, you are healthy and you lead a happy life as you are. Whenever you wish to talk more feel free. It’s ok to communicate on anything and since this forum happens to deal with a philosophy that i love (I am not with the church as you know) I kinda jump in from time to time to have some fun. So bear with me sometimes! I am just starting my day!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Sounds very good, Theo.. And I will take you up on that offer.. I want to share with you a comment from ex-scientologist who posts here under the name Conditioner.. This comment touched me very much and I would like to hear what you think about it..

              “…So hard to face the fraud you’ve become, and sharing this Lie silently, amongst all the other group members. As you’re spewing this BS to Non scientologists, you know they can see right through you. They’re going ‘uh huh -yeah, right’ but are too polite to really challenge the bullshit.
              I hated this so much, having to lie to family members, looking at me like a cancer victim. So glad I’m no longer part of this shit.”

            • Theo Sismanides

              well… there are so many facets in life, so many people, so many viewpoints, so many wrongs done and so many betrayals and on the other hand we are unable to see them and acknowledge them as such. This man obviously didn’t want that shit and he is now free. I can understand. It is A viewpoint. I wish him well. You can’t shove things down people’s throats and call it a religion. That ain’t right. This is why I left the cult and live on my own now. Growing “older” as the body grows, makes me look to myself especially and try to see if I get to be a better man. And oh yes, I have made so many mistakes and wrongs and sins but still I try to correct them and see if I can become indeed wiser.

              Making new friends is a good thing as long as you don’t forget yourself and your principles. And that we all are spiritual beings is the first principle I respect and follow. The rest can come along. A philosophy is supposed to help people advance. Scientology Inc. as we call it now, is a very bad example but it is NOT Scientology, the philosophy of it. I practice as much as I can on my own and find sooth in this as I see people responding to the one first principle: yes, I am a spiritual being. I would like to know more about that.

              And kindness and thoughtfulness are two key things in order to advance and make it through. Ignore people to your peril… We are all in this game called Life and others seek to just enjoy as much as they can and other find enjoyment in understanding and helping and others find enjoying in abusing and taking advantage of things and amassing power to themselves but… in the end… we are all going to quit one way or another this game and the outcome, all you get with you, is what did you make out of it and what others thought of you. That’s all.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Very, very well said..

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hahaha, so would you agree that in order to make something out of it, we can at least have some Disqus (hahaha, discourse) and not play it enemies? Hahaha. I have thought of it long ago and I accepted it. Admiration is the strongest particle there is, but not a fake one. I do admire you for being able to Disqus, hahaha, with me.

            • sugarplumfairy

              And I admire you for the same reason..

            • DeElizabethan

              My 2 cents. If you want to get nit-picky they aren’t the same, but Basically they use the same principle. I’ve had done and learned both Reiki and TA.

            • Theo Sismanides

              nit-picky is not the right word. If you want to be Honest is the right word. If you wanted to be honest and not biased they are not the same.

              What principle is the same? The nerve assist is about static electricity accumulating on the nerve channels that causes various anomalies to the spine etc. The Touch Assist has to do with certain spots of the body. If that’s what you mean same principle, ok. But it’s unique. I have not seen it done or described in that way by anybody else.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hey Theo, what if we “did” relieve a somatic with the “tech”…but what if we found out later..by reading more…that the “tech” was an exact copy of something that the evil “psychs” had already brought to the table, suggested and found tried an true? What if we had auditing wins…but then found out that memory regression hypnotics…YES, HYPNOTICS….were already widely practiced and shown to be valuable?
              What if…..we then applied that same thing under a different pseudonym and found out it still worked?
              One that had zerO to do with Lafayette Ron Hubbard?

              However…This time…it is one of those evil psychs LRH borrowed from on a regular basis?

              Wait Theo, let me clarify..I said borrow…LRH was an outright thief. He stole every single bit of “knowledge” he tried to pass off as his own.
              Now tell me Theo…do YOU research to see who came up with that particular theory or knowledge base first? Or do you credit LRH because he …I won’t say “wrote”…I will say provided…DTMSMH?
              Or do you just assume it is true? How much have YOU gone outside the bubble of the knowledge you have shared with us? What do you know about LRH and his ties to Crowley?
              And don’t try to tell me that his ties to the occult and Alistair Crowley were lies or exaggerated….because I know better. And don’t tell me they don’t matter. Because they matter…Big Time.

            • Theo Sismanides

              BTN2, I agree LRH borrowed… but LRH mostly put together that knowledge and found out some things himself too. The processes are not borrowed. Maybe you know Dianetics but Scientology processes do not exist anywhere.

              As to Crowley…. and the connection to him. I care about the work of LRH not his life nor his acquaintances.

              You see LRH compiled lots of things he borrowed, put them together, made some processes and then people can make an understanding out of those materials.

              Have you read any books? Like History of Man, talks about the pituitary and the pineal gland.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Be my Guest…. you didn’t answer any of my questions? Like do you know what is As Is? have you ever had this experience in life? And what have you read or (let me attempt to say) applied out of Hubbard’s borrowings?

              See if we don’t share some reality then we cannot agree on anything. Since we are talking about Scientology and not psychology and it would be good to know what each person talking to me, knows about it.

            • DeElizabethan

              “An individual must have NO effect on self and TOTAL effect on everything and everybody else (the category of “the only one”).” lrh – Scientology 0-8. That’s your members, leaders in the cult and most indies.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hey Elizabeth, thanks…. Do I demonstrate such attitude here? That I am the only one? Now you make me unhappy. Don’t I try to be part of this group too and hear people and answer to them, most of the times politely? Maybe I am the only one who speaks pro Scientology, here, hahaha. That Only One I accept. Otherwise, you are not right. Ok, last night I was a bit nasty and wrote that here is kindergarden stuff and bla, bla, bla… but this was also a joke as some people think Hubbard was an evil con man and I don’t share this opinion. So I replied in such a way. I am not playing the Only One. Otherwise, I would have left this discussion group. I am interested to see people’s ideas be expressed and have two way communication with every one. If Scientologists demonstrate such an attitude they are no different than any other fanatics of other churches. I think it’s wrong. I hope I am making it clear now but in any case I cannot be fully part of this group sharing exactly the same opinions which are very bad (I don’t have background data for each one here) about something I consider good. This is our main Reality Break. But as I said we can agree on other things and ALL here respect the right to express oneself.

            • DeElizabethan

              I know that you understand my points, only you know the answer to your questions. Yes, you are generally polite. I don’t believe that I have a break in reality. Communication does resolve. I agree that we all have the right to express our opinions, without too much proselytizing, we can have fun doing it.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Yes as long as we can talk together…. talk together… this IS the most important, while RESPECTING each other, lady!

    • 0tessa

      Like members of other faiths, you state that yours is the one and only. You claim exclusivity.
      There is no such thing as ‘the one and only’. In your own terms: there are no absolutes.
      Also, seventy years of Scientology: what has it really done? Show me some real statistics, not those falsified by Misavige.
      I respect your choice of philosophy. But this statement of yours is not very convincing.

      • Theo Sismanides

        I am not with Miscavige… Miscavige has taken down Scientology… a lot of people are now in the know about the human mind and the human soul/spirit than 70 years ago. And many out of them do apply this knowledge to help their fellow man.

    • John P.

      Ah, Theo, starting off the new year with a burst of your usual passion and enthusiasm! You said:

      Scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge of the human mind and spirit on planet earth and when applied standardly it yields results.

      I will grant you that Scientology is the most prolifically codified attempt to look at the mind, particularly in terms of the amount of writing from a single author.

      However, when you make such a definitive, bold, sweeping generalization about the scope, the power and the effectiveness of Scientology, such a claim requires extraordinary proof. There is absolutely no proof for what you say in any meaningful scientific sense. There are no studies that show that Scientology is effective in any way whatsoever. There is only anecdotal evidence about “wins.” And while I acknowledge that some people have life-changing “wins” from their auditing experience, most people have had some “wins” from any sort of self-help approach that they try, particularly the first approach they try, and particularly early in their experience with self-help. For example, some people who take hallucinogens talk about the “wins” they experienced dropping acid. Some of those “wins” may be real — they may have altered the way they live their life for the better. But the frequency of those “wins,” the abundant anecdotal evidence of people who have had bad trips on mushrooms, LSD, or whatever else, and the clear mental evidence that, across a broad population and range of circumstances, that such things are not predictably effective to any significant degree. That, in turn, means that tripping on ‘shrooms remains illegal, even if there are some anecdotal “wins.”

      So when you say what you do, be prepared for real scientists, and people who understand something of the “science of the mind” who have actual training in proven scientific methods, to laugh at you. Hubbard’s “research” and “data” are nothing of the sort, and prove nothing. They are, in fact, laughably bad attempts to “do science.”

      And be prepared for people to doubt your conclusion, if not ridicule it as well. You say that the only two reasons people leave Scientology are that they didn’t really understand the “tech” or that they were fed up with the cult but were still interested in practicing Scientology. I bet you that the latter number is dwarfed by the people who understand all too well that “the tech” doesn’t do enough for them for the time and energy invested in studying it, and who have no desire whatsoever to continue to learn it. In other words, only a small percentage of people leaving the cult think “suppression” (i.e., Miscavige) is the problem and that practicing as an Indie is the right thing to do. Otherwise, the “Indie 500″ list would be a lot longer than it is, given that perhaps 200,000 people in the last 30 years have been active participants in the cult.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Thanks Jonh P. (hey, where did the Capitalist go?)

        Oh, John you have such a nice way with words… I admit you are one of the best here. You can put all those thoughts in such a nice, logical way so as to get some sense out of them. However since I do apply the study tech and I gave up Law for Scientology ( I used to be a lawyer in Greece) for Philosophy and the Love of Knowledge (just in case someone wouldn’t know Philosophy meaning Love of Knowledge) some words caught my attention which are actually used in a clever but, permit me to say, inapplicaple/inappropriate way.

        So you say amongst other things:

        There is absolutely no proof for what you say in any meaningful scientific sense.

        What is proof in any meaningful scientific sense, really?

        What is scientific? I just heard yesterday that the Big Scientific discovery about Man…., DNA… well… well… I just heard yesterday by some lay woman (I hope she had it right) that a man’s and a monkey’s DNA differ about 5%!!! Wow… if that’s true!!!!! And all the Science and all of their proofs go into DNA being the building block of Life. Oh… and we are just 5% different from Monkeys! If that is the meaningful scientific proof you are looking for… well, be my guest John.

        I quit law and the science of law for the study of knowledge and law at least in Greece is not exactly a science anymore but something applied to serve somebody’s purposes, mainly the State or the Big Wigs. And I am sure it’s like that in other places of the world.

        So this scientific proof makes me go…. yikes! Not always but I am very careful when it comes to contemporary and acknowledged “Science”. Mind the quotes. That “Science” serves a secret agenda.

        Oh, by the way the only proof that I can give you is just some thousands of cases of people who have got those wins you are mentioning. Thousands if not millions by now… But that is not “Scientific” so I guess it doesn’t count for You. I know John, we need a license to live I guess by some State Agency or some Scientific Laboratory. Even to have a win and say something was good. How do I prove I am not an elephant here if “Science” says otherwise.

        As to hallucinogens and drugs and LSD… I got to tell you guys this one: so John takes the word “wins” in Scientology and then “wins” from drugs and makes a nice (non sequitur) comparison between the two and then goes off to write some hundreds of words to persuade (deviate) us from a nice straight way of thinking. What do drug and LSD wins have to do with Scientology wins, John? Who is hallucinating here, really now? Do you know the effect of drugs? Do you know the effects of a sober person studying or being audited? Two, very, very different things. Sorry John nice try….

        And then John says I should mind the Scientists of the Mind. For what? To give me a license to live or a license to have a win? No thanks.

        Then John shows his real face as to Self Betterment movements and says Scientology is worth nothing and all of us who just went into the Indie Movement are really hallucinating and the rest who just left Scientology, oh those are the people who did get something and that was that there was nothing to get out of Scientology. Great! That’s just an opinion though! And let me tell you that the 500… are enough! Do you remember the 300 Spartans John? I happen to be Greek this life time so I know some of the history of this place. 500 is enough. And more are gonna follow because not everyone is a Spartan today!

        I am very prepared for people to doubt my conclusions and I am very prepared for people to ridicule them as well, John. I have done 6 TV shows, live in Greece so I can confront people through writing even better. Have you ever appeared on a TV show to stand for something you believed? Oh, it’s like an arena… really bad conditions.

        However, I am also very prepared now to start asking people how much they have had of an experience in what they are doubting or ridiculing? Like you, John? Finally, did you get any Scientology and how bad was it (I bet it must have been veeeery bad, if you did any)? Did you?

        Come on tell me.

        1) Which books have you read?

        2) Which courses have you taken?

        3) Which advanced lectures have you read (oh, this stuff is the real thing…eh… let’s not miss out on this one, this is the stuff a thetan is glued upon, those are the deeeepest secrets of life… guys… don’t even open them cause they are gonna blow up on your faces, it’s dangerous stuff, don’t EVER read it)…

        So… John? Let’s see…

        4) What auditing have you taken?

        5) How many hours?

        6) Up to which Grade did you go?

        7) In what timespan (did you get one session in 10 years and then decided to give it another shot with some ambitious young auditor after another 10 years? Cause it doesn’t really work that well for PCs like that).

        8) Were you ever on staff? Did you experience all of this knowledge applied in a group and saw the wins of individuals in that group?

        9) Oh, and last but not least… were you in the Sea Org, John… to see and experience a life time experience that only the Hubbard Crazy Theta Circus offers for brave and courageous thetans like you and me? Were you there Johh?

        and I give you a last one and an easier one which I guess applies for your case

        10) Or did you have some relative or a gf in Scientology or even read about it in the papers or heard about it through Tom Cruise, like my gf did here before she met me.

        Now.. we are getting into… specifics… Sorry, John I am not that “scientific” as much as you would like but I guess laymen too have valid questions and can observe the Obvious even if not “Scientists” (oh I got to tell you that you come up a lot with those “Scientists”, I had to tell you this man).

        Did you do any of the above and to what degree? Because even a Scientist is made through/by learning to observe certain phenomena in a disciplined and logical way. So don’t look for “scientists”, look for valid observations John and the thousands of people who are in Scientology are your valid observations. If you don’t wanna accept this as a fact and a proof…I am truly sorry, it is your problem. But any real judge worth his title would admit this IS valid enough proof. Thousands of people saying the same thing, getting those results. Oh and without hallucinogens, LSD and stuff… just pure application of a Tech which says no to drugs.

        I could go deeper into that Tech but I am soooooo lazy and bad lately that I don’t want to share any more of that knowledge here. I spent so much of my life to give it out for free. Let people look for themselves, if they care anything about it.

        Thanks a lot.

        • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

          I think this poster’s head has somehow left it’s body and is currently posting deep from within it’s ass somewhere.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Yeah this is what I mean… a thetan can be anywhere and see all the shit there is around!!! Oupss! I guess we are coming up on the Tone now media_boy!

            • Cerulean Blu

              Marcotai? Is this you?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Who’s Marcotai? I have a misunderstood, sorry.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yes you can Theo, and you are holding your own pretty well.
              I have been reading this with great interest and you certainly have expressed yourself quite well, even if I disagree with much of what you have said.
              I really like the comparison to the 300.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks a lot! It’s good to disagree, hehehe. Agreement is Inflow and Disagreement is Ouflow… hehehe (PDCs, Philadelphia Doctorate Course). If we all Agreed… oh god…. this is why you have Policy to follow not agree or disagree, so this forum has the Policy of expressing oneself freely without going bananas of course. So we do follow that and have our own game here.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Well… John you are lucky… I wrote a whole answer here for you but it doesn’t look like it went through. Lucky you. It’s too late now to restructure it. Had to do with scientific proof, lol! Lucky you! Whatever happened to my answer!

        • grundoon

          It’s just above, if you’ve chosen the Disqus option to display the oldest first (“Discussion” pull-down menu just at the top of the comments).

      • Theo Sismanides

        I found it and I am going to copy paste it and post it now. I even saved it if it doesn’t appear here again, hehehe.

        Thanks Jonh P. (hey, where did the Capitalist go?)

        Oh, John you have such a nice way with words… I admit you are one of the best here. You can put all those thoughts in such a nice, logical way so as to get some sense out of them. However since I do apply the study tech and I gave up Law for Scientology ( I used to be a lawyer in Greece) for Philosophy and the Love of Knowledge (just in case someone wouldn’t know Philosophy meaning Love of Knowledge) some words caught my attention which are actually used in a clever but, permit me to say, inapplicaple/inappropriate way.

        So you say amongst other things:

        There is absolutely no proof for what you say in any meaningful scientific sense.

        What is proof in any meaningful scientific sense, really?

        What is scientific? I just heard yesterday that the Big Scientific discovery about Man…., DNA… well… well… I just heard yesterday by some lay woman (I hope she had it right) that a man’s and a monkey’s DNA differ about 5%!!! Wow… if that’s true!!!!! And all the Science and all of their proofs go into DNA being the building block of Life. Oh… and we are just 5% different from Monkeys! If that is the meaningful scientific proof you are looking for… well, be my guest John.

        I quit law and the science of law for the study of knowledge and law at least in Greece is not exactly a science anymore but something applied to serve somebody’s purposes, mainly the State or the Big Wigs. And I am sure it’s like that in other places of the world.

        So this scientific proof makes me go…. yikes! Not always but I am very careful when it comes to contemporary and acknowledged “Science”. Mind the quotes. That “Science” serves a secret agenda.

        Oh, by the way the only proof that I can give you is just some thousands of cases of people who have got those wins you are mentioning. Thousands if not millions by now… But that is not “Scientific” so I guess it doesn’t count for You. I know John, we need a license to live I guess by some State Agency or some Scientific Laboratory. Even to have a win and say something was good. How do I prove I am not an elephant here if “Science” says otherwise.

        As to hallucinogens and drugs and LSD… I got to tell you guys this one: so John takes the word “wins” in Scientology and then “wins” from drugs and makes a nice (non sequitur) comparison between the two and then goes off to write some hundreds of words to persuade (deviate) us from a nice straight way of thinking. What do drug and LSD wins have to do with Scientology wins, John? Who is hallucinating here, really now? Do you know the effect of drugs? Do you know the effects of a sober person studying or being audited? Two, very, very different things. Sorry John nice try….

        And then John says I should mind the Scientists of the Mind. For what? To give me a license to live or a license to have a win? No thanks.

        Then John shows his real face as to Self Betterment movements and says Scientology is worth nothing and all of us who just went into the Indie Movement are really hallucinating and the rest who just left Scientology, oh those are the people who did get something and that was that there was nothing to get out of Scientology. Great! That’s just an opinion though! And let me tell you that the 500… are enough! Do you remember the 300 Spartans John? I happen to be Greek this life time so I know some of the history of this place. 500 is enough. And more are gonna follow because not everyone is a Spartan today!

        I am very prepared for people to doubt my conclusions and I am very prepared for people to ridicule them as well, John. I have done 6 TV shows, live in Greece so I can confront people through writing even better. Have you ever appeared on a TV show to stand for something you believed? Oh, it’s like an arena… really bad conditions.

        However, I am also very prepared now to start asking people how much they have had of an experience in what they are doubting or ridiculing? Like you, John? Finally, did you get any Scientology and how bad was it (I bet it must have been veeeery bad, if you did any)? Did you?

        Come on tell me.

        1) Which books have you read?

        2) Which courses have you taken?

        3) Which advanced lectures have you read (oh, this stuff is the real thing…eh… let’s not miss out on this one, this is the stuff a thetan is glued upon, those are the deeeepest secrets of life… guys… don’t even open them cause they are gonna blow up on your faces, it’s dangerous stuff, don’t EVER read it)…

        So… John? Let’s see…

        4) What auditing have you taken?

        5) How many hours?

        6) Up to which Grade did you go?

        7) In what timespan (did you get one session in 10 years and then decided to give it another shot with some ambitious young auditor after another 10 years? Cause it doesn’t really work that well for PCs like that).

        8) Were you ever on staff? Did you experience all of this knowledge applied in a group and saw the wins of individuals in that group?

        9) Oh, and last but not least… were you in the Sea Org, John… to see and experience a life time experience that only the Hubbard Crazy Theta Circus offers for brave and courageous thetans like you and me? Were you there Johh?

        and I give you a last one and an easier one which I guess applies for your case

        10) Or did you have some relative or a gf in Scientology or even read about it in the papers or heard about it through Tom Cruise, like my gf did here before she met me.

        Now.. we are getting into… specifics… Sorry, John I am not that “scientific” as much as you would like but I guess laymen too have valid questions and can observe the Obvious even if not “Scientists” (oh I got to tell you that you come up a lot with those “Scientists”, I had to tell you this man).

        Did you do any of the above and to what degree? Because even a Scientist is made through/by learning to observe certain phenomena in a disciplined and logical way. So don’t look for “scientists”, look for valid observations John and the thousands of people who are in Scientology are your valid observations. If you don’t wanna accept this as a fact and a proof…I am truly sorry, it is your problem. But any real judge worth his title would admit this IS valid enough proof. Thousands of people saying the same thing, getting those results. Oh and without hallucinogens, LSD and stuff… just pure application of a Tech which says no to drugs.

        I could go deeper into that Tech but I am soooooo lazy and bad lately that I don’t want to share any more of that knowledge here. I spent so much of my life to give it out for free. Let people look for themselves, if they care anything about it.

        Thanks a lot.

    • sugarplumfairy

      “scientology is the most advanced and best codified knowledge of the human mind and spirit on planet earth..”

      No, it’s not.. not even close.. and no amount of postulating or magical thinking will ever make it so..

      Everyone here likes you a lot, Theo.. But the truth is you’re delusional in regards to scientology.. And that’s not MY truth.. It’s THE truth.. I hope someday you wake up and smell the coffee.. And I hope it happens soon, before you waste any more time, energy and money on a tech invented to enslave and rob you..

      • sugarplumfairy

        Btw, off the top of my head.. just a few suggestions of greater (much greater) thinking on human mind and spirit than lrh: Descartes, Kant, Maslow, Engels, Locke, Emerson, Thoreau, deBeauvoir, vonGoethe, Marx, Skinner, Ghandi.. I could go on, but I’d have to google..

        • 0tessa

          May I add Spinoza?

          • sugarplumfairy

            Is this a trap? I somehow connect him with stoicism.. And no time to search him while at work.. I do remember, however, that he got good marks from Einstein and If he’s good enough for Einstein, he’s certainly good enough for me.. Thanks, Otessa.. I am now imagining Spinoza’s opinion of lrh and his weird pseudo-religion..

          • BuryTheNuts2

            and Hume?

            • John P.

              Let’s stop adding philosophers to the list one by one, and just accept the implicit ranking and categorization of the leading minds of the epistemological firmament as expressed by Monty Python in “The Philosopher’s Song”:

              Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
              Who was very rarely stable.
              Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
              Who could think you under the table.
              David Hume could out-consume
              Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
              And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
              Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

              There’s nothing Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya’
              ‘Bout the raising of the wrist.

              SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED…

              John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
              On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
              Plato, they say, could stick it away;
              Half a crate of whiskey every day.
              Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
              Hobbes was fond of his dram,
              And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: “I drink, therefore I am”
              Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
              A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he’s pissed!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. eggggggggggcellent..

            • sugarplumfairy

              Makes me feel much better about my activities the past few days.. Apparently I was in good company..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You never disappoint!

            • Cerulean Blu

              LOL! Lov me my Monty Python

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yep, absolutely.. What do you think his opinion of lrh and co$ would be?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              He would call B $

      • Theo Sismanides

        well if it’s THE truth and not AN opinion, I guess I will see it soon. Meanwhile I am applying things in my life, telling people they are Thetans (ok spiritual beings, whatever) not their body, they can do more and more things because they don’t happen to die, they can only be killed only by killing their dreams, telling them to be evolutionaries and revolutionaries and do not necessarily agree with the propaganda on this planet that we are all mortals so be good boys and girls and work for your bosses because otherwise you are gonna be fired… and in general such little things. I wish I had 10 auditors around me, lol… hahahaha, oh I could have some great use for them. But it will happen. But I want 10 good ones.

        I can get people in droves to try and lighten up that heavy mind of theirs by some auditing. But that’s up the line. Meanwhile as I said I find it interesting that people respond better when they understand that they are spiritual beings and not a machinery, matter and energy but are creators of matter and energy. And…. sorry… it looks like it works for them too. We are now ALL becoming delusional in the Age of Aquarius.

        Here is the song for you …. Aquarius!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0G8XJNz4bY (by the way there some nice depictions of more airy bodies, thetans in that vid).

    • Cerulean Blu

      Huh?

      • Theo Sismanides

        What word or symbol didn’t you get, buddy? (oh god…. not one of those again…. why can’t some people make any sense when they read stuff?)

    • Cerulean Blu

      Problem is, you need to distinguish between mind and spirit, and LRH just throws them in the blender and hits the “high speed chop” button.

      Scientology may be highly “codified” but that is much to its detriment. It’s likely no living human will ever read and remember all the crap LRH wrote, dictated, or said on tape or video. This is because his thinking and subsequent documentation of it, is dull, contradictory, self-serving, incoherent, and intolerable.

      If LRH wants a religion, fine… hail Marcabia, Xenu, and all the other Space Opera, and space cooties, etc. It is a criminal bait-and-switch in its current incarnation, but if adherents can read OTIII without spending $300,000, that is their right (as long as they aren’t hypnotized, a salient point here).

      If LRH wants a science of the mind, well then…. FLUNK. He’s no scientist, and really, any educated person should hold the assumption that he is simply lying when he makes any attempt at a statement about science.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Have you at least read DMSMH? I think you should if you haven’t yet!

        • Cerulean Blu

          Of course. I have a nice old copy, with all the ridiculous parts that have been subsequently removed.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            So you have just the cover?

            • Cerulean Blu

              Oh, no…. I meant it CONTAINS all the non-”politcally correct” crap that got removed in later editions

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ah!

  • jensting

    Welcome to the Real World, Simi! Out here, you’re free to agree with as little (or as much) LRH as you like :)

    Your description of feeling physically sick when accessing information not sanctioned by those who controlled you is interesting – the real prison is inside your own head, regardless of who puts up the barriers.

  • mook

    found this on alt.gossip.celebrities re: Cruise and Miscavige. are we that surprised that Misscavige is using techniques that the Nazis used?
    https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.gossip.celebrities/RmTjglgRX60

  • Norwood Partz

    I hope that Mark Bunker mentions, in his upcoming documentary on Scientology, that the state of “Independent Scientologist” is almost always a temporary and transitory state.

    For someone leaving the Organization, being able to do Scientology counseling, without the Organization meddling in it, is a enjoyable novelty. But the novelty soon wears off as the person looks at more and more information on Hubbard and his teachings.

    The person then becomes an Ex Scientologist, and moves beyond Scientology.

    Unless Mark Bunker notes that, in his documentary, he’ll have been tricked into endorsing Scientology and Hubbardism, which would be unfortunate.

  • Jgg2012

    This is slightly off topic, but what happened to the New Year’s Eve gala Co$ was going to have at the Shrine Auditorium on December 28? Was it held? Was it sold out? Was Davey there? In 2005, it was packed, and Davey was flying high with Scientology stats. If it was not held, it shows that people have stopped paying money and their numbers really are dwindling. Can they even aford to buy Kool-Aid?

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Hopefully someone will upload a video of this event on YouTube.

      • Jgg2012

        Are they photoshopping it to make it look like it was sold out? That may be the cause of the delay. It’s happened before.

        http://www.lermanet.com/PhotoLIES.htm

      • Jgg2012

        I noticed that the Scientology You Tube Channel has 7,000 subscribers, wheres Magoo has 10,000 (and growing). I don’t think Simi is going to be lonely.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          This is rich? Me likes!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

    I am so happy for you. It is a huge step to admit that you were victimized. It’s very difficult to come to grips with the fact that you were taken advantage of in such a big way. I wish you the best and I hope that you can enjoy life more now without the restraints that such a powerful mindfuck can put on you. It takes a long time to shake off all the false ideas and weird notions about the world that Scientology programs you with but as a few points of advice that might help you in the near future:

    -Drop the tone scale entirely and do not judge people based on their “tone level”. it is completely false.

    -Try to eliminate the feeling of superiority and don’t be afraid of people who are not Scientologists

    -Be as open as you can feel comfortable with people about your experiences and the things you did while you were part of Scientology

    -Do not live your life in paranoia or looking over your shoulder. Keep in mind that the church may try to retaliate one day, and expect it so you are not caught off guard, but do not spend your life waiting for that day.

    -Don’t be afraid to tell people and joke about the things that Scientology considered “out-ethics”. Don’t be afraid to do things that Scientology considered “out-ethics” (assuming of course that they are not also illegal). You are going to need to re-build yourself so you can shake off the Scientology personality and chief among those things is: Do NOT be afraid to be yourself and do NOT be afraid to do things that you WANT to do.

    -Tell the truth as much as you can because Scientology trains you to lie and telling the truth does more to shake the programming to the core than anything else possibly can.

    -One of the hardest things for me to shake off was the whole “conspiracy” mindset of Scientology. Scientology fills your head with government conspiracies, medical conspiracies and psychiatric conspiracies. I knew tons of Scientologists who believed in “chemtrails” and “9/11 was an inside job” and “cigarettes are good for you” and “all drugs are bad”. Let me tell you that being able to take theraflu and nyquil and advil has been an amazing experience for me. For everyone else in this world it is normal, but when you have spent your entire life afraid of them and you finally realize, damn these things actually help… It’s a whole experience. When you are sick next time, take some day/nyquil and get on with your day. Trust me. It is amazing LOL

    • http://surisburnbook.tumblr.com/ nobs

      Excellent, well said, good advice. I remember a few years after leaving, a friend offered me a joint. For about a non-second, I couldn’t think what to do. And then I was all, oh yeah, like I totally know what to do with this sh*t. Yeah, man. And I haven’t looked back. Well, maybe a little.

      On a side note: Hey, what’s with this Theo guy? Can’t figure that out. At. All.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

        He’s another indie on the fence from what I can tell.

        Another piece of advice, kick back and enjoy all the many hilarious things that fill the internet. I just discovered Sail Cat today. The internet is full of all kind of goodies to brighten your day (or ruin it LOL):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Veg63B8ofnQ

        • Sandy

          Oh, Derek. I have not told you for a bit, but I truly love you!!! Blessings…

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

            Right back atcha Sandy!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Derek, I don’t think Theo is on the fence…Of course this is just my opinion. I think Theo still has his beliefs…and that is OK.
          Theo’s experience and the one you had were probably…literally…worlds apart.
          By the way..are you home yet?
          Next trip Florida? You and I can go to Flag and drink Starbucks and make fun of your old uniform????? and go to Dee’s house.
          whadyathink?
          i will bring cheese.

          • DeElizabethan

            Nothing wrong with having beliefs, we all have them. When one overly proselytizes it makes one wonder IMO.
            Welcome anytime Derek and BTN!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Theo is a sweetheart Nobs…but he is a firm independent Scientologist.
        But one of the smarter ones to have a discussion with.
        And he is lots of fun and very “theta” and just a fun Greek guy.
        of course for me…Pot still wins…. :-)

        • DeElizabethan

          Since reading him at some length for some time, I’m beginning to question how independent he is. But that’s just me in my snarky new year.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Understand Dee :)

    • http://www.AlanzosBlog.com/ Alanzo

      I know it!

      Aspirin is fucking awesome, isn’t it?

      Works like a BOMB.

      Way better than any touch assist EVER did!

      • sugarplumfairy

        Did somebody say touch assist? Pull my finger.. thank you..

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1161852028 Derek Bloch

          I can think of a few people I would like to assist me with some touches :)

          • DeElizabethan

            How about “feel my fist” or if you’re clear and above, “see (or look at) my fist” as it’s hitting you.
            Wouldn’t that be fun? Then we give them an Aspirin Alanzo.

      • Sandy

        Aspirin IS AWESOME!!!!!

        • Sandy

          Peeps that thinks they need to go stronger … dial it back down and try plain old Bayer … it’s the real deal …

          just sayin’ …

        • DeElizabethan

          Ibuprofen for muscle pain – it Works!

  • Cerulean Blu

    Lawrence Wright said:

    “I like the serendipitous surprises of reality,” he said. “I get more pleasure from discovering it than from inventing it.”

    That wise insight should be considered by scientologists. Those sage words point directly at them.

  • slappy

    Simi wants to thank everyone for their comments … on New Year’s Day she was too hung over to comment after a night of wild celebrating, and then she had computer issues that prevented her from replying directly.

    • DeElizabethan

      Simi, I don’t remember what I said if anything to you, since I am hung over and have computer problems too, so understand. Now what I’d like to say to you is “Go girl, I’m with you”, and all these fine people too on the Bunker. I went through similar after leaving for good, so know what you went through even if at a smaller degree. I’m happy to greet you to the real world. Lots of love and Happy New Year to you!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Tell her we are so proud of her…and that is all we are too hung over to say…

  • FancyKat

    It took me much longer. I like her am still for some of the data but I no longer call myself a Scientologist or Freezoner or anything. I could not take that many could not accept science and how society is today as well as the love of money. I broke away as a result. I see some others are starting to do that as well. I blocked the one’s that were still stuck and nasty to me for my being able to think for myself.

    I am for the resource based economy and through the study they have of condition of people and my own actions I woke up. I asked to be removed from the indie List when the recent blow up on a FB list blaming the Freezone for them being stuck in the church. I could hardly believe what I was reading. It was nothing but be victim and blame of others for own choices. But I do understand that being liked too and brainwashed has a huge effect as well. Nothing could have pulled them out as they were in it bad and still are. The indies are no different from the Freezoners as they are all one and the same to me.

    I keep what works but I am not doing much with it. I see the money is still important to many but I see a recent change of some of the people being able to think for self.

  • HelperForward

    Oooh. “Simi Valley” came out as an anti-Scientologist. Whoop-de-doo. I
    guess her dreams at stardom were very successful. After all, we’ve all
    heard of her, right? Not!

    Every religion has members who
    leave their respective Churches. There’s no exception to this
    phenomenon. So so why all the focus on Scientology? Sounds like
    religious bigotry to me.

    Scientology is the fastest growing
    religion on the planet. Under the leadership of Chairman David
    Miscavige, the religious technology of Scientology has exploded in size
    and popularity the world over. Even those who quit the Church are not
    able to deny the benefits they received from it. Life Changing,
    life-success benefits. Now of course there’s exceptions to that rule
    such as Miss “Valley”, but Miss “Valley” is a faded star that never
    shone in the first place, and who would do anything for herself to get
    attention before she fades away for good at the sunset of her life.
    You cannot trust disgruntled employees or worshipers or scientists or
    ANYONE disgruntled… to tell the truth. It belies their
    disgruntlement.

    I’ll never understand the media’s obsession with Scientology. It’s as if there’s these conspiracy theorists who constantly target the Church. They’re the same people who say the Trilateral Commission (or one of a few various other groups) controls the world. Very paranoid.

    • DeElizabethan

      Some day soon, hopefully, you will look, listen, question and wake up.

  • idomind

    Ex Scientologists sound as remorseful as ex spouses. “That no good so mo va bich…the 13 years we had sex was no good sex…. I hate his family too……. I should have married the one from high school………….He took the best years of my life………..but I still want to know what is going on in his house………..