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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Tonight on Channel 4: “Scientologists at War”

Joe_and_Danielle

Meet director Joseph Martin and producer Danielle Clark, the young duo behind tonight’s 1-hour documentary on the UK’s Channel 4, “Scientologists at War.”

The program is part of Channel 4’s “First Cut” series, which features the work of up-and-coming talent in documentary film making.

We ran into Martin and Clark at the home of Marty Rathbun while we were writing about Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold, two former Scientology private eyes.

The third member of their team was Michael Simkin, a veteran filmmaker whose work has taken him around the globe…

Michael_Simkin

 
The three of them asked us to get involved with the project, and we spent some time with them in Los Angeles, Houston, and in New York. Even then, last fall, they were getting threat letters from Scientology attorneys, who were accusing them of not trying to get the church’s side of things. The truth was, just about every day, we saw Simkin trying to get through to church officials to arrange interviews or tours, to no avail.

We hear that Channel 4 has continued to fend off an onslaught of sound and fury from Scientology’s attorneys, but it hasn’t stopped the airing of the program, which is scheduled for 9 pm tonight in the UK.

We’d love to hear from our readers over there — please tell us your impressions of the film after you’ve watched it.

Martin and Clark set out to explore in-depth the most serious crisis facing the Church of Scientology. It’s a crisis of faith, and it’s leading many veteran church members to declare themselves “independent” of the official church, even in the face of severe harassment by a litigious organization known for its dirty tricks.

The church is facing several other major crises — its drug rehab network, Narconon, is quickly becoming consumed by lawsuits and government investigations; its celebrities are becoming as much liabilities as they once were the church’s best recruiting tool; and five years of relentless attention from activists at Anonymous have taken their toll.

But it’s the wave of high-level defections over the last five or six years that has proved the biggest challenge to Scientology leader David Miscavige. We haven’t seen the final product yet, but based on what we saw filmed, this documentary should go a long way to bring to a large audience the revolt that Miscavige has on his hands.

As soon as we have information about seeing the film here in the US, we’ll let you know.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 17, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • EnthralledObserver

    I’m looking forward to seeing this documentary at some point in the near future… it looks promising!

  • media_lush

    Here’s a teaser from today’s Guardian:

    Scientologists At War
    9pm, Channel 4

    It might be argued that all religious schisms are futile, akin to arguing over which type of cheese the Moon is made from. But there seems something especially silly about such a fracture within Scientology, as risible a magnum of snake oil as has ever been sold. This documentary introduces the upstart Judean People’s Front of this scenario, the Independent Scientology movement, launched by former Scientologists displeased with church leader David Miscavige. Likely to amuse connoisseurs of human gullibility. Andrew Mueller

    • EnthralledObserver

      haha… what a damning summary…

    • tetloj

      Ooooh I don’t think Marty will like this…

    • Captain Howdy

      Brilliant!

    • FistOfXenu

      And the worst thing about snake oil is that it’s not even made from real snakes. Yup. Sounds just like L Ron Humbug and $cientology.

      • Captain Howdy

        Thank Xenu it’s not made from real snakes. Poor snakes have been put upon enough due to some retard a couple of thousand years ago deciding they were the spawn of Satan. If it wasn’t for snakes, the plague would have probably wiped out humanity long ago.

        • FistOfXenu

          I agree Captain. I’m just thinking it’s like being conned twice that they get a medicine that doesn’t work and doesn’t even contain real snake. Just like $cientology. No clear, no OT powerz, no drug rehab, no learning tech, no management tech, and then it doesn’t even have real “knowing how to know” or what ever make believe definition Ron the Con gave it.

          $cientology: it’s just horseshit all the way down.

          • Captain Howdy

            I’m sorry for the rant. Animals are one of the few things I take seriously.

            • FistOfXenu

              Quite right too.

            • SciWatcher

              Me too!

            • FistOfXenu

              Save the blue jays.

            • Bella Legosi

              kinda how I feel about squirrels
              :(
              They don’t deserve to be mixed up with scientologists

            • Captain Howdy

              Squirrels, clams, sharks and parasites in general.

              Oh, and especially bluejays.

            • Bella Legosi

              Agree to disagree Captain……you know I am an advocate to the destruction of the blue jay species!
              >P

            • Jgg2012

              I think you are going to have to apologize to all the snakes, squirrels and other animals that have been compared to Scientology.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            I was trying to come up with a joke:

            “So what’s the foundation of Scientology?”

            “Dianetics”

            “But what is more fundamental than that? The real underlying meat?”

            “Well, engrams, you know, moments of pain and unconciousness, like Ron said.”

            “Surely there is something else, you guys spend YEARS on this stuff.”

            “Well, you go clear you know, then it’s all gone. Poof! No more engrams.”

            “But LRH said something like “A Clear is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind”.

            “Right, no more reactive mind. Correct.”

            “But it leaves the question, what other ‘reactive mind’ would he have?”

            “Grrrrrrr.”

            “Well?”

            “Beings. Thetans. They can have reactive minds.”

            “What ‘beings’? Which ‘thetans’?”

            “You’re going to make me say it, aren’t you, you fucker?”

            “What do you mean? And you don’t need to get profane, please.”

            “You want me to talk about the upper levels.”

            “No, I just asked what the foundation was, that’s all. Simple question.”

            “OK, let’s get this clear, beings have reactive minds, ok? Those affect us. They got to go.”

            “But if a person gets rid of his “own” reactive mind, what’s left?”

            “Nothing.”

            “But Ron said…”

            “NOTHING!”

            “So, I don’t get it. He said “His own reactive mind”, Why the distinction? What other ones are there?”

            “Entities.”

            “Entities. Read History of Man you idiot.”

            “What are entities?”

            “Like I told you, thetans. Other beings with reactive minds. That’s as far as I’m going to go.”

            “You mean like “Ghosts?” “Boooooooo” and all that?”

            “No, just dead people, no body.”

            “But where? Like graveyards?”

            “Yes. No. I don’t know. Just, ‘around’.”

            “Around where?”

            “The PERSON! Alright! THE PERSON! Around the person!”

            “No need to yell.”

            “You don’t seem to get it, so I have to yell.”

            “I still don’t get it, ‘around’ where?”

            “………………”

            “Hmmmmm?”

            “….stuck…….in the body……..”

            “WHAAAT??”

            “Stuck in the body.”

            “Like, a tumor?”
            “NO! Just like….. Look, it’s these dead thetans, see. They get stuck in your body, they think they are your ear or dick or something. They are very confused. They have reactive minds, you got to get rid of them so you audit them, OK? Satisfied?!!!”
            “Thetans in the body? Not just you?”
            “Yep, other beings stuck in your body. Body thetans. Enjoy the nightmares SP.”
            “But that’s crazy!”
            “No, they are there. I’ve talked to them.”
            “?”
            “Telepathically. I think at them.”
            “Oh, that’s…that’s…..”
            “I audit them, get them to realize where they are. They leave, I’m happier. End of story. Happy now?”
            “But that can’t be all, there’s got to be something else?”
            “Just Body Thetans. Takes years.”
            “That’s it?”
            “It’s body thetans all the way down….”

            • FistOfXenu

              Nice one.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              But what happens if the body thetans have their own equivalent of body thetans to OTs?

              What if they can’t be audited away because they are still dealing with the engrams created when their mommy was pregnant with them as a little baby body thetan?

            • richelieu jr

              My God!!! How many layers does this onion have?

              (and do those layers have layers? ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH!

              It’s like a sweater that’s unraveling but somebody just keeps knitting and knitting and knitting….!)

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Imagine, if you will, an onion 62 trillion light years in size …

              With each layer of said onion a mere femtometer thick …

              And reeking of a putrescence that would gag a 18th century sewer cleaner from London who had only been allowed to see the sky once in his 56 years of life …

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Pee Wee!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              This pretty much sums it up…in a “nutshell”,….so to speak.

          • richelieu jr

            $cientology: No Science, No Ology = 100% Bullshit, Hubbard-style!

      • Jgg2012

        Actually, there are many species of snakes, thus many types of snake oil. Yes, a war between brands of snake oil.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Yay!! Media!! We’re counting on you to keep us posted today..

    • Poison Ivy

      The “Judean People’s Front” of Scientology. Ouch.

      • Jgg2012

        Is JPF going to populate Earth with Idle Orgs?

    • Kim O’Brien

      ” Judean People’s Front ” …man…that was just the perfect comparison . Marty is going to have a headache i think . Oh dear ..The Oracle is going to pop a brain vessel .

      • richelieu jr

        I think you mean Marty “He-Man Visionary Torch-Bearer Hubbard Warrior Keeper of the Flame, ‘No women and children or animals were harmed in the making of my religion unless they deserved it which they probably did but it never happened anyway” Rathbun

    • Phil McKraken

      That TV show teaser is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
      – Judean People’s Front
      – Likely to amuse connoisseurs of human gullibility
      – Which type of cheese the Moon is made from
      – Risible magnum of snake oil
      Lots of comedy gold packed into just a few lines.

      • FistOfXenu

        I bet Missionary Kid’s gonna want some of them for his list.

        • Missionary Kid

          They’re going on my list, thank you.

      • Bella Legosi

        The Peoples Front of Judea………SPLITTERS
        lol Monty Python……..damn I love them

  • tetloj

    I expect some live logging from those who can watch this.

    • FistOfXenu

      Don’t worry. If I can get to it on line I’ll be “logging” all right. I’ll be logging so hard I’ll need a bed pan. :D

      • Truthiwant

        If you get it online can you give us a link?

        • Captain Howdy

          Some Anon in the UK will record it and put it up on some file sharing or storage sight and a link will appear on WWP by tomorrow morning, most likely.

          • ze moo

            Rutube has its uses.

            • Captain Howdy

              It might be up tonight seeing as how the UK is 5 hrs ahead. If someone finds it, upload it to youtube, where it might last a day, then upload it to rutube.

        • FistOfXenu

          Big if there but I’ll be trying.

      • tetloj

        ok – fixed ‘logging’ to ‘blogging’

        • Kevin Woolard

          Thanks for that correction, Fist – that was a somewhat disturbing image you painted there …

          • FistOfXenu

            Right. Sorry, my head has BTs armed with sledge hammers right now. I’m a little cranky right now because Mrs FoX is trying to make a hangover remedy and breakfast and fill an ice pack and I’m trying to tell her she cooks too loud but she says I can’t possibly hear her when she’s in the kitchen and I’m in the hammock outside. Dammit! The birds are shouting but I can hear the bacon sizzling anyways.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Gatorade.. Just sayin.. If you don’t have Gatorade, a few small sips of pickle juice..

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks SPF. Usually I’d just weather it but I’ll try anything today. I’m about 25 miles from the nearest Gatorade but we’ve got plenty of pickles. Just the juice or can I eat the pickles too?

            • Bella Legosi

              You may eat the pickels, if you can stomach them……..I fill up a gallon of water and keep it near me……..for hangovers that is……..not sure if you are in that boat (reads like it). Feel better! Crackers helps too

            • FistOfXenu

              I’ll be doing cranberry juice and iced coffee a lot of the day. Anything to increase the through put. ;)

            • Bella Legosi

              I honestly eat crackers and drink tons of water. Stay in bed all day like I have the plague. Devil’s Cabbage helps, but not as much as a good hot shower and a comfy bed! Sometimes I make my kittys suffer with me and keep them near and go all Elmira on them. But I am a crazy cat lady who believes in the healing power of kitty love!

            • FistOfXenu

              Crackers? Big box of saltines here. No kitty but Mrs FoX assures me she can help out there. I don’t think I’ll tell her yet but breakfast and plenty of liquids and I’m already feeling a lot better. Just wanna see what she has in mind. ;)

            • tetloj

              Sly ol’ FoX, you.

            • FistOfXenu

              ;)

            • Bella Legosi

              :D
              Food is your friend, even though the sight of it makes you want to be sick! I have to tell myself that and after I eat I feel 10x better!

            • FistOfXenu

              Food’s always my friend. No matter what’s wrong with me I have an appetite like a horse and a cast iron stomach. Mrs FoX helps by being such a great cook and a good nurse.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Kitties are nature’s hot water bottles. And cuter, too.

            • Bella Legosi

              Couldn’t agree more. When I went to the store this morning I was able to attract 3 different cats and I played with them all! This is what a crazy cat lady does when she is deprived of the right to house kittys!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              No cats? You’ve moved in with Nazis?

            • Bella Legosi

              It’s worse then Nazi’s! I can’t even have a little mouse or fish! Our landlord is really hardlined on that issue. It even states in our lease that smokers can not smoke on the premises……so if I want to smoke and not feel “bad” about it, I have to smoke on the sidewalk! pffft! Can’t wait to move!

            • Captain Howdy

              water, some food, some motrin and a benzodiazepine if one is available.

            • FistOfXenu

              Nothing fancy here. Right now I’m in a tricked out camper van in a trailer park with barely working wifi. It was supposed to be a quiet few days til I met an old buddy. But water and food works okay.

            • Captain Howdy

              If you’re in a trailer park you should be able to find some klonopins no problemo. ;)

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              From “askmen” – best hangover cures. (pickle juice is mentioned several times but mixed with bouillon…)
              http://ca.askmen.com/entertainment/austin_3900/3911_the-best-hangover-cures.html

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              And oh, but shhh… lend me your ear so I can whisper.
              What about, “THE PURIF!!!” – she yelled.

            • q-bird

              perhaps an Ensure? and lots of pure sweet water Fist!

            • sugarplumfairy

              lol.. If you have an appetite for pickles, you’re already better..

            • Sidney18511

              FOX…you are absolutly AMAZING today!!!

            • FistOfXenu

              Please. Don’t shout. I can hear you typing today.

            • FistOfXenu

              I’d like to thank everybody that contributed advice about my hang over. I tried most of it (not the Purif!) I definitely got better so let’s call it all a win. :) Learned my lesson, I can’t drink like I used to 50 yrs ago.

            • Bella Legosi

              Don’t feel bad duder……Bella can’t drink like she did 10 years ago! Glad ya feeling better

            • FistOfXenu

              :)

      • Poison Ivy

        I hope it will be picked up by iTunes or Netflix or any of the outlets where fine docs are sold.

        • Captain Howdy

          I was going to say something about us being pirates, then I remembered you make docs for a living, so…nevermind. I’ll zip it.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            That’s wise Capn’. She gave me a good lecturing about that — rightfully so. I used to have a number of torrent sites bookmarked. When you look into the face of an indy docu filmaker, it doesn’t feel quite right anymore.

            • Captain Howdy

              You’re right, and after I saw P.I’s real life resume it made me realize this is a real person who depends on this for a living, not to mention she has had a pretty amazing career at it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

        Tip: Use a softener.

  • Truthiwant

    Why can’t all the OT’s just get together and postulate an end to the bad mouthing and
    criticism of their church. I thought that the ability to make anything go right
    was what was promised to them on their levels.
    Scientology shouldn’t really need lawyers to threat the television
    company that want to air a documentary but instead it would be sufficient that
    a few dozen OTVIIIs meet up to hum and chant in a big circle, or whatever they
    do, until the suppression ceases.

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      They are … but the effects are not what they are expecting.

      Specifically … they are postulating that the truth of Scientology is made manifest to the wogosphere.

      Which it is … just not as they individually perceive the truth.

      They are discovering that what is true for you doesn’t make it true for everyone when your source of truth is produced by a paranoid, narcissistic, megalomaniac with dubious connections to reality.

      • FistOfXenu

        Yup. They’re postulating their agreed apparency. We don’t have to bother. Facts are like that, they don’t need postulating they just need paying attention.

        Liar Ron Humbug had connections to reality like a bullet has connections to a target when you’re on the firing range.

      • Truthiwant

        These people are crazy.

        I hope one day they all come to their senses. They’re all so angrily tied up with their “religion” that they aren’t even able to crack a beer and cut some farts just like us simple mortals.

        • FistOfXenu

          Don’t know if they can even afford beers but with all those beans I don’t think you have to worry. :P

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          Who are you calling mortal?

          Simple I can take …

  • Captain Howdy

    I don’t understand the legal grounds a person or entity would have to threaten to sue someone who was making a documentary about them, but the makers of the documentary didn’t ask to interview them.

    • FistOfXenu

      According to Tony “The truth was, just about every day, we saw Simkin trying to get through to church officials to arrange interviews or tours, to no avail”

      • Captain Howdy

        I understand that and don’t doubt it’s true. I just don’t understand how you can threaten to sue someone because they didn’t ask you for your side of the story.

        If you did a doc about the Manson family and you didn’t interview Charlie and his lawyer threaten to sue you, all you would have to say is that Manson has a history of lying and mental instability and you didn’t want to waste the film on B.S.

        • FistOfXenu

          But all Clark and Martin and Simkin have to say is “if you wanted to tell your side you should’ve given us an interview when we asked for it”. It’s all a layer of DM’s bullshit laminated onto LRH’s horseshit so here’s hoping England’s TV people have bigger stones than ours do.

          • Poison Ivy

            As long as they documented that they tried to reach CO$ spokespeople, they are golden. Sounds like they did just that.

            In the US, you don’t have to give both sides of the story in a documentary. Documentaries are generally subjective in this day and age…and some of the most popular docs have very strong narrative voices – Michael Moore, Morgan Spurlock, etc. etc. Theoretically, NEWS is supposed to be even-handed. But you’ve got FOX, so there’s that.

            • FistOfXenu

              Don’t remind me. My nick name is a heavy burden to carry.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Earlier you said, “Sorry. It’s Monday. I’m always ornery on Mondays. Double ornery when I’m hung over.”

              Good Grief. Well, you are sizzling hot today. Drink some more on Sunday nights, why don’t you?! Then come post on Mondays.

            • BosonStark

              Scientology is such a complicated mess of lies and contradictions, I think this schism/indie angle is a good one to focus on to narrow things a little for the general public.

              They can see how the big nutter cult chooses to deal with the splinter nutters, through disconnection and the Squirrel Busters. For a cult that condemns “joking & degrading,” they sure create a lot of comical situations.

              I like how the British spokesnut said Scientology was founded by a “humanitarian and philosopher.” What was Ron’s philosophy? You have to lie to people to control them? Smoke more cigarettes to prevent cancer? All your problems are caused by implants and engrams?

            • Artoo45

              Avoid freight trains (they’re always running into you). That’s my takeaway from Hubbs.

            • BosonStark

              “Affection can no more spoil a child than the sun could be put out by a bucket of gasoline.” Dr. L. Ron Hubtard

              What a great, great philosopher — so full of it.

        • Poison Ivy

          Any doc on the Manson family would be based on public record because it’s now history.

  • Xique

    Look at these brave souls, Martin and Clark. I’m in awe simply due to their age and their willingness to go after the story and get it aired. Bravo to you guys and your filmmaker Simkin as well.

    • FistOfXenu

      Here’s hoping it’s bravery and not ignorance.

    • Bella Legosi

      I won’t be surprised if Co$ is the subject of many more documentary’s from upcoming filmmakers. The subject is so engrossing and right now it hasn’t been done to death. This is still relatively “fresh meat” media wise (as in TV, the internet has already eaten Co$ up and regurgitated it to nourish Anonymous birds of prey………like virtual thunderbirds…………..look out DM!) The subject is still very ripe for the picking for any brave soul with the ambition and will to make such a film, and that is incentive for more filmmakers to take up this subject.

      Co$ veil has been ripped and burned. I think it’s appropriate that they are now being exposed on so many levels and that it is getting the attention it deserves.

      • Observer

        The truth about Scientology is so sordid, lurid, bizarre and jaw-dropping that there’s plenty of documentary material there. Now that people are finally starting to believe what the exes and critics have been saying for decades the trickle of Scn-related exposés will turn into a flood.

        That’s what’s been so infuriating to me: the refusal of the masses to believe what kind of evil Scientology is really up to. Everyone’s seen the WWII death camp photos, and they all know about Jeffrey Dahmer and the Night Stalker, but still close their eyes to the fact that human beings are capable of all kinds of unimaginable evil.

        News Flash: celebrities are not paragons of virtue and their involvement in something does not mean that it’s good or at least harmless. Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, Jenna Elfman et al are actively promoting an evil, abusive cult!

        • FistOfXenu

          But remember that back in the 30’s when people get out of Germany and tried to tell England and us about what the Nazis were doing even before the war started, they either weren’t believed or else people just ignored them. It was pretty far into the war before the Allies accepted that Jews and others were being persecuted. And they didn’t really understand til our troops liberated the death camps. When I tell people what the cult does the common reaction is a polite look like “are you allowed out by yourself?” Or else they just say it can’t be true because it wouldn’t be allowed. And we have people here that know what’s going on in the cult and still post comments asking why nobody stops $cientarCONon. We just don’t learn and the cult counts on that.

          • Observer

            Maybe that’s a benefit of being raised in an abusive home: I have no illusions about what people are capable of doing to each other.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              I wasn’t raised in an abusive home, but I have no illusions either, because I study history. I think the fact that history isn’t considered all that important is a big reason that people have their heads in the sand.

            • MissCandle

              O, I really like you and I’m sorry for your abusive upbringing. I was naive when first introduced to a cult because I had never experienced abuse and subterfuge. Thank goodness you recognize it — and I do now as well.

            • Observer

              Thanks, MissCandle. I dealt with it long ago and actually have a decent relationship with my parents now. It’s my hope that every family Scientology has fractured can find the same thing.

            • ParticleMom

              I’m sorry to hear that, Observer. I think my obsession with the cult comes from my emotionally abusive relationship with my mother. She is a narcissist and I have been her supply for the majority of my life. I have empathy for the koolaid drinkers because it took me over 30 years to figure out the truth.

            • monkeyknickers

              I hear you Obs.

          • Poison Ivy

            Very true FOX. I recently spoke to someone (a Wog like me) who had two terrible experiences w/the church and the CC and went on and on about how awful they were…and then said, “But I understand they do really good work getting people off drugs”.
            AHHHHHHH!

            • FistOfXenu

              Annoying as hell isn’t it?

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Message from an old family friend ..

          • Bella Legosi

            Thankfully for us all we have the internet and use it!!!

            I get the same reactions from friends and family. My family is now pretty convinced that Co$ is an evil cult with no redeemable qualities, but most of my friends just think Co$ is my new conspiracy theory and get real disinterested when I talk about them. That really doesn’t stop me from talking tho. I think that if I keep vocal it will get around and the more people talk the more interested filmmakers and journalists will be to pick up the subject. Now that the internet is here and it is soooooo easy for anyone to make a documentary, I would not be surprised if think tanks or research groups monitored the viewings of say Mark Bunker’s films or those made by Anonymous to factor into the decision to green light an expose or series about this cult. I also wonder if they note the comments for the feeling the audience has regarding this subject and if that factors into the decision process as well.

            Holy shit I just realized YouTube and technology like it has really made graphic researching firms obsolete!

            Poison you seem well versed in the subject……am I not too far off in my generalization?

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            As Missionary Kid often says, “Youth have no memory.” But I would expand that to include all ages and demographics these recent decades.
            Is the educational system to blame? Partly. The disbanding of extended families and our last of exposure to our elders and their stories and experiences? Partly. … (fill in the blanks here with other theories)
            I would also emphasize that our politicians especially have no memories for the most part – oftentimes, for self serving purposes and at other times, just out of ignorance.
            Countries on the North American continent are young countries so our collective memories reflect that and historical events don’t have as much significance it seems. On the flip side, other countries, such as those in the Middle East, etc. have tribal memories that are too long and, as a result, extended conflicts and wars seem beyond logic to a lot of us North Americans. IMHO (and sometimes not so “humble”)
            But I digress…

        • Bella Legosi

          So TRUE so TRUE!!!!
          But never underestimate the power of an untapped subject with journalists. Journalists like Tony only blazed the trail. This topic is screaming for a flood and as time goes one and the fear of dealing with Co$ shrinks, you will see the flood gates open. If it means more ratings or views you can bet that those executives will run the story based on the bottom line. The more people watch these docos the more executives at the top will have incentive to produce and run them. The free market is good for somethings! It is a shame that it takes this to get the story out but I am not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth!

      • Xique

        This story is getting the attention it deserves, exactly, and it makes me very happy. Or should I say it makes us very happy.

  • stateofcircle

    I know, totally off topic, but this has been bugging me and I want to post it here.
    How in the hell does Narconon get away with not doing medical withdrawal, at least in some cases. Im sorry, but a hardcore addict, in more cases, don’t just stop for TRs. If I were WDing, I’d want some suboxone stat. I’m sure any hardcore heroin addict or alcoholic does GREAT detoxing in a fucking sauna the first few days. Withdrawal sucks a giant big one, and they’re putting themselves, the patient and others in danger if the don’t.

    • Poison Ivy

      You don’t want to take wog drugs that are nothing but tools of the evil psychs.
      A few thousand mgs of niacin and a few hours in the sauna and you’ll be all shiny and new.

      • stateofcircle

        I watched a David Edgar Love speech yesterday that made me realize something I should have connected right away. Niacin is processed through the liver, as are alcohol and most addictive drugs, so many addicts seeking treatment already have at best a less functional liver and at worst a hardly functional liver. I posted on the last Narc article that there has seemingly no people dying or getting sick directly from the niacin. Well, I wish I hadn’t said that, because DEL cried telling the story of his good friend who was a patient with liver issues, and the autopsy revealed her liver to be severely damaged after her quack treatment, almost definitely fatally exacerbated by the niacin. He also told a few other short horrible stories. Thank GOD he got that place shut down. Everyone on earth should see this video if they have ANY doubt about Narconon.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sMJm9xC9M4

        • Poison Ivy

          This is important factual information. Niacin in a serious addicts liver is like adding a lighted fuse to a time bomb.

      • Bella Legosi

        I still wonder if Gitmo has stumbled on to this regimen yet………..I have a feeling it could produce results. Imagine having to do the Purif before you were waterboarded……….damn……Bella needs to stop coming up with these ideas and posting them……..I should be paid for this! All I need is my Pinky…….then I could really “take over the world” muahahahahha

    • Captain Howdy

      There’s NO medical detox in narconon, and this is outrageous, and should be illegal.

      Detoxing from opiates without medication is painful enough, but detoxing from alcohol or benzos without meds can kill a person, and often does.

      • stateofcircle

        Exactly. I really, truly have zero clue how there haven’t been more deaths (thank God there havent been, though), especially suicides and maybe even murders. I personally have never gone through any major withdrawal (I had mild-moderate benzo-kpin withdrawal, which was fucking horrible and I was only taking it as prescribed for only a few months, and the shit that went through my head was all over the place and my body felt like it was electric in the worst way) but I have witnessed it more than one and have studied it, and it is probably the most unpleasant thing both mentally and physically to go through. For me it was horrendous, and as I said, I was only taking them as prescribed for 4 or 5 months, I can’t even FATHOM how absolutely terrible it is for an addict. To have to go through major withdrawal , especially opiates, benzos and alcohol as you say, without ANY medical assistance has to not only be straight up TORTURE, but really fucking scary. You’re feeling probably the worst you’ve physically and mentally felt in your entire life, your mind is all over the place going back and forth to the depths of hell, and you have finally made the step to get clean and paying out the ass for it, and there is absolutely NO medical assistance WHATSOEVER. There is zero chance there is anything available to you that will make you feel better for days or weeks, and for an addict, that is a terrifying pill to swallow. I really don’t know how many of the patients even make it. Or perhaps they just deny and redirect the really severe cases to other rehabs, but still. Or, as nearly every ex-narc staff has said, there are drugs readily available these facilities, usually for an insidious price. There is absolutely nothing more abusive than that. You have an addict going through withdrawal, who is already supremely fucked up mentally and physically, who would probably do anything to feel the slightest bit better. So you offer them some heroin for a ton of money. Or you make them sleep with you for some vodka. And guess what? Stats are up and everything looks hunky dory, because Susie is shooting up and happy, Tommy is getting laid and making money, the staff, with their fake certs and zero training, either can’t discern between someone who is high, withdrawing or sober or just don’t care, and Susie is just as much of an addict as ever, perhaps worse, or perhaps even dead.

        Sorry for the rant…I’ve obviously hated Narconon previously, but in thinking about it more in depth, I am verily, supremely and viscerally angry.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          Don’t apologize for the rant! We’ve all done it here–hard not to.

  • FistOfXenu

    Oh no! Tony you’re posting like you have a pimp position with this program! And the rest of us are gonna be pimping it too! We’re all gonna be doing obsessive astroturf-like advertising for a program we can’t see here!

    I feel so enturbulated.

    • Captain Howdy

      Oh shit. I knew this was going to happen.

      • FistOfXenu

        Sorry. It’s Monday. I’m always ornery on Mondays. Double ornery when I’m hung over.

  • Eevey Tyler

    very cool cant wait to see it :)

  • Scientia

    Oh how I’d love to know what kind of guff the UK culties have used to try and stop a program from airing that they haven’t even seen yet. Please, TV people, feel free to post any letters online so we can all see/laugh.

  • Otto T Mariedahl

    Aww man I really watch that documentary.

    OH well I suppose that it will available on-line sooner or later.

  • ultzi

    Do you know if this will ever be aired in the US? If so, please tell us when and on what channel. I’m glad that Channel 4 wasn’t intimidated by the $cientology threats of litigation. If more people did that, they’d lose their power. The cult is crumbling in slow motion. Wish it were faster!

    • Markthehungarian

      I am sure that this documentary will be available on the web, via torrent, within 12 hours of it being shown in the UK. So, if you’re willing to wait a day, you’ll be able to download it and watch it anywhere.

  • N. Graham

    It’s great the a documentary like this could be produced in libel-crazy Great Britain. It would be nice to see it in the states also.

  • Graham

    The relevant page of C4’s web-site. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/scientologists-at-war/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1 Comments allowed.
    Several comments about how “unfair” it is to produce an un-balanced programme that doesn’t allow the “church” to present it’s point of view. It really would be wonderful to see Miss Cabbige speaking from the heart. Or Tommy/Thomas Davis, so well remembered by us here in the UK from his interactions with our Mr Sweeney. As someone has commented, they couldn’t even get official spokes-person Karen Pouw to step forward.
    Can anyone remember the last time anyone allowed themselves to be interviewed as a spoke-person of the “church”? Has there been anything since Tommy Davis v John Sweeney? They come across as totally shit-scared of being interviewed. But that can’t be so surely? Not with all those OT powerz and all.

    • Observer

      Mark Pinchin was on Alan Titchmarsh’s show in January. The look on his face when Alan brings out a copy of Lawrence Wright’s book is priceless.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD1-ivWcFY&feature=player_embedded

      • Captain Howdy

        Thanks, that was entertaining.

        Pinchin has the Tom Cruise dedicated glare down pat. He barely blinks during the interview. I’ve seen serial killers with more expressive eyes.

        • MissCandle

          That’s exactly what Mr. Candle said when he agreed to visit the Amsterdam Kerk with me. He is not a S-Lying-Tology “addict” like I am, so actually knew very little when we visited. But he could not get over the young woman’s unblinking blank stare.

          • Captain Howdy

            If you visit the Amsterdam org again ask for “robyonder”. He’s a dopey Dutch scilon who has been posting indecipherable comments on youtube for years.

        • Robert Eckert

          Or “defecated” glare

      • Poison Ivy

        Wow Mark Pinchin is the anti-entitled Tommy Davis. He is so calm, so confident, so right on message. I would think he’d be a huge asset over there.
        I wish Alan hadn’t been so softball with him. I wish he’d produced John Sweeney from behind the curtain or something.
        Now, it is indeed a very good question – where is Karen Powowowowow? Where is the next generation Tommy Davis? And of course, the all encompassing question, where is COB?

        • FistOfXenu

          And WHERE’S SHELLY?

          • Poison Ivy

            Ah yes. The number one question all interviewers should be asking right off the bat.

          • Artoo45

            Find out the answers to these and other questions on the next exciting episode of As The Clam Turns.

            • FistOfXenu

              Snap! Snap! Snap!

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            Took the thought right out of my keyboard fingers.
            Also, shen can we set us an interview with the President, Heber, next?

        • Zana

          Yes! Whatever happened to Shelly? And where are ALL of those people in the Hole? The US government was concerned about Guantanamo… what about The Hole?

          How can Co$ get “de-churched?” Lose its standing as a non-profit.

      • FistOfXenu

        Jive Asshats. Hideous! Keystone Cops in yellow suits with instruments. And that keyboard guy with a smile like a shark. Or is that his jaw just about to fall off?

        What?! Mark just said $cientology doesn’t work for every body? (05:10) Is he suicidal or something? And “you can be a $cientologist and not make donations. It’s up to the individual”? (05:38) I thought he said he’s off drugs. And he says it cost him £180 to get off drugs?

        They won’t have to send him to The Hole. He dug 1 for himself. Douchebag.

        • Poison Ivy

          Yes, saying “It doesn’t work for everybody” is pretty off-Source, isn’t it?
          Although it certainly makes them sound 1000% more reasonable. Remember, Wogs can be tricked or lied to as needed!

          • FistOfXenu

            They sure do a lot of tricking and lying.

        • Captain Howdy

          The Jive Aces give swing/jive music a really bad name. They belong in Branson or Disneyland.

          • Zana

            They are weird. They hit all the notes but they don’t play the music.

            • monkeyknickers

              It’s creepy for sure Zana. Good spot!

        • Bob

          Right on FOX! What lies. If you don’t donate, the church may leave you alone temporarily, but not other clams. They will shun you and gossip and you will be ostracized till you pony up either money or a lot of your time. That’s my observation from current experiences in the church. Mark is an almost perfect parrot for Lientology. The church that “Keeps On Fibbing.”

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        Wish we could have a sound track here in the Bunker – like Titshmarsh’s “Cash for Clutter” section. Ever time we write the word “Scientology,” we’d hear the sound of the bell of an old cash register.

    • Sidney18511

      It really burns my butt when I see all these clams “crying” about “their side of the story” not being told.
      Well I’ll tell you what asshats….WHY DOESN’T YOUR CHURCH make a wonderful documentary about its “grand” history and all it’s “good works” they could even throw in some OT super powers majik tricks.
      You have your own damn film studio and more money then you know what to do with. Show your own story, just let people know its not a comedy.

      • Bella Legosi

        That sounds an awful lot like defending your “faith”. And we all know a good clam doesn’t defend, but attack! It is as though Co$ is so damned arrogant, to defend the faith is seen as a weakness, like some how defending it is in itself an admission that it is wrong. However, I have noticed whenever someone does make the mistake about defending this cult they are quickly shot down by their own footbullets.

        The excuse, “They are totally biased” is quickly drying up. Ask 5 people if they even care if a media outlet is being fair to that “church” and I garentee at least 3 of them will not care, and dare I say happy that the media isn’t cow towing to get the B$ party line from a B$ cult! What card will they play after the media bias one is played out?

      • ze moo

        Almost every CO$ production is for local clam consumption. The things they produce for non-clam consumptions are things like the ‘who is a scientologist’ tv commercial or the cchr’s ‘industry of death’ vids. The former is a meatless, potatoless stew of platitudes that could be plopped down in a toothpaste commercial and they would fit.

        The ‘industry of death’ would be considered laughable. but for the death and destruction they are trying to blame on the wrong target. Ask any WW2 veteran if the ‘psychs’ caused the war and they’ll laugh at you.

        CO$ always hides itself, deny interviews and any real interaction with the general public and media. It is much easier to claim bias and gather the faithful into the trenches then to put out any positive pr about the cult. They get caught lying too much to even try to spin their pr.

        • Poison Ivy

          Ask any holocaust survivor or his/her offspring. There won’t be much laughing.

          • ze moo

            Ask 3 of my uncles, they saw combat in Europe during ww2 and they don’t remember the perpetrators with fond memories.

          • Jgg2012

            Actually, Hitler thought psychiatry was a “jewish science”. But Jan Eastgate told John Sweeney of the BBC that psychs went into the concentration camps and decided who would live or die. (Eastgate wasn’t even alive at the time.)

          • ParticleMom

            My grandparents are survivors. My father was born in Germany shortly after. They have no fear of psychs. But, my grandmother can’t be in a wooded area since she started getting some dementia, she gets flashbacks :(

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              My heart breaks for you and, especially, your mom.

              You have the benefit of knowing the past nightmares she is experiencing are over.

              She does not.

              I dare not offer you pity but wish you much strength, fortitude and grace.

          • Jgg2012

            Or how about Bert Field’s ad comparing Germany’s treatment of Scientology under Ursula Caberta, to the holocaust.

      • FistOfXenu

        Don’t encourage them. The world already has too many melodramatic movies with soft edge pictures of LRH and reams of bullshit about mankind’s greatest friend and made up statistics about nothing.

      • Poison Ivy

        Yes, a documentary on that brilliant nuclear physicist and humanitarian L Ron Hubbard would be something to see. Oh wait. Golden Age has done that. It rivaled the original THE HANGOVER for comedy gold.

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Side note: I think FOX has rivaled the original “The Hangover” in terms of comedy gold here this morning with his comments.

      • Jgg2012

        I think that their last hail mary pass will be a 30 minute, prime time infomercial in which Tom, John, Kirstie, etc. all say “but we love Scientology”. The Super Bowl ad increased their website traffic 50% for a day, so an infomercial may really help them.

    • FistOfXenu

      And don’t forget their sooper communication skillz. They’re so good at it they avoid communicating when ever they can so they won’t overwhelm us with the power of their “comms”. All that money, all those TRs, all those ash trays, and what’s the EP? Silence. I’d laugh out loud if it wouldn’t be, well, loud.

      • tetloj

        Yup FoX – overwhelming confront happening over there on the C4 comments

    • CharleneHux

      Graham, did you just make that up as you typed because you’ve never watched any of these shows?
      Because you couldn’t be more wrong. Every media channel and radio show offers the opportunity for scn spokesholes to speak on it – they always decline and send some version of the same stupid, rehearsed answer, “Everything is false. These are a few disgruntled apostates getting paid by big pharma…. yadayadaya…” So the media channels publish those statements out of fairness.

      If you’re upset that the Cult of Scientology never agrees to interviews for these, take it up with them. The media has always given them opportunity and plenty of notice, too. Sorry to hear you’re so upset with the lack of representation by your “Church” but don’t blame the television channel for it.

      • noseinabk

        Please re-read Graham,s post. He is referencing the comments on C4.

        • CharleneHux

          My mistake, apologies to Graham.

  • Ka-Pow!

    You might be able to watch it if you connect through a VPN located in the UK.

    http://freenuts.com/best-3-free-uk-pptp-vpn-services/

  • BosonStark

    Accusing them of not trying to get the church’s side of things, after they did repeatedly is standard practice for the cult and it really gets old.

    Also, it’s pretty ironic that the cult expects documentary filmmakers to get its propaganda message out for them, when they dumped Tommy “Xenu” Davis, their #1 propaganda disseminating clown and only public pretty face, and then installed the lumpish and not-too-bright Karin Pouw behind the wizard’s curtain.

    How would they explain that Tommy and Jessica came up about a billion years short on their billion year contract?

    • Poison Ivy

      Well, that’s easy to explain. They are humanitarians. Therefore, when they learned that Jessica was terribly ill with terminal cancer, they compassionately granted Tommy leave to care for her.

      Oh – wait. The cancer was a lie?

      Never mind.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        I though the humanitarian thing would to focus on the greatest good across all dynamics.

        While I do not wish Jessica ill (hoping there will soon be the pitter-patter of little Tommy Ds), shouldn’t they be focused beyond the first couple dynamics? If (heaven forbid) she dropped the body because of cancer, dirt she get enough case gain to pick things up on the next cycle?

        Oh wait … -practice- what we preach? Silly Xenu make funny.

  • Observer

    Hang your collective head in shame, ABC!

    • sugarplumfairy

      amen..

  • Martin Padfield

    C4 Community Manager on 17 June 2013 at 09:50
    Thank you for your comments regarding the upcoming film FIRST CUT: Scientologists at War. Our First Cut strand, which showcases new directors, covers a diverse range of subjects which we feel viewers will find both interesting and informative, further highlighting our commitment to new talent and providing our audiences with an alternate point of view. This particular documentary examines the Independent Scientology movement and the high level defectors who have publicly renounced their membership from the Church of Scientology including Marty Rathbun (a former Inspector General of Ethics in the Church of Scientology). We believe that this is a legitimate topic for an investigative documentary on the Church of Scientology and the recent developments affecting it; particularly how it treats former members who have decided to leave the organisation. We appreciate you writing in with your comments, however, might we suggest that you take the time to watch the programme before you make any judgements as to the content. The programme will screen on Monday 17 June at 9pm on Channel 4. Thank you.
    Reply
    Report

    Joe and Danielle were diligent and fair. They spent a lot of time asking the questions and getting to grips with the issues. I’m sure the program will be worthwhile. Hopefully it will get at least some of the few remaining faithful asking a few questions – that’s about the best one can hope for really.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Martin!! Yay!!!

    • Otto T Mariedahl

      I have a sneaking suspicion that the Community Managers comments won’t stop the sci-bots.

      • tetloj

        their predictable comments are just depressing

    • George Layton

      Thank you Martin. Looking forward to seeing this.

    • Jgg2012

      Karin Pouw is going to claim that the Church was never contacted.

  • Anon Nom Nom

    Oh man, this should be a pretty epic television piece. I can’t wait.

    Channel 4 does some amazing work.

  • Observer

    So the “church” is for the umpteenth time sniveling about not being contacted by people reporting on them while refusing to make anyone available for an interview. Two questions:

    1. Is this Ron’s PR “genius” in action? Did he say anything about this strategy (such as it is), or is it squirrel PR tech?

    2. How can they possibly not see that this makes them look ten times worse than not saying anything at all? Okay, this one’s rhetorical.

    • Bella Legosi

      #2 is spot on!

      How bad does it have to get in a “modern religion” where journalists already know the B$ line before it is even written and go ahead with the story, cuz even though it may look one sided, when it comes to Co$ it is almost as though some media outlets say, “Fuck it! They are jerking us around to make our story look biased as all hell, so we are running with what we know to be true and will stand behind our journalists.” Technically, running a story without the other sides view is a journalistic “crime”, but not when the other side manufactures the illusion of being biased. I think Co$ does what it does to journalists and filmmakers to make them out to look really biased, but it always backfires. And leave it to a hardcore clam to apply the same “tech” over and over again, in hopes that once it will work. You know what that sounds like? The definition of insanity……..doing the same shit over and over expecting different results…….pfffft

      • Captain Howdy

        The church of Lientology’s own lawyers admitted in court that the cult teaches it’s members to lie.

        ” In a 1992 Canadian court case, the lawyer defending the Church of Scientology said that “the prosecution witnesses (Scientologists testifying against the Church!) could not be believed, because they had all taken special training in how to lie.”

        They haven’t got a tentacle to stand on.

        • Bella Legosi

          No they don’t but that doesn’t mean they won’t “mock one up” to make themselves and the rest of Co$ feel better about that lie(s)!

      • Bob

        Good call. That was my thought when I was reading Tonys blog. You stated it clearly.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      There is another question:

      3. How can they make their PR response visible on camera since they are all doing it whilst exterior? I know the tech has some problems–such as the colors of patio furniture–but I can’t believe they haven’t mastered how to make themselves known to the media. I think vampires have fared better with their mirror tech.

  • aquaclara

    Outstanding. I now recall that last fall, you gave us a teaser hint about more to come. Now here it is. Excellent.
    Go, UK! I look forward to the comments!

  • Captain Howdy

    Ha Ha..one of the ronbots goofed the floof over on the Ch. 4 comments section.

    “If this is supposed to be a programme about a war, why are you apparently airing only one side? Where are the views of the thousands of practising Scientologists within the Church?”

    Hey, she signed her name “Jenny”, maybe it’s my stupid OSA sister. lol

    • Observer

      Only thousands? I thought there were millions and millions!

      • Poison Ivy

        Did you catch the spokespuppet’s reference to the opening of new buildings?
        This man knows the party line. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s promoted and transferred to INT because of that interview.
        Only to be disappeared into the hole within a few months.

    • Poison Ivy

      Wow, that must be weird for you to see.

      • Captain Howdy

        I doubt it’s her. They spelled program with an “e”.

        • Poison Ivy

          Is she in the UK?

          • Captain Howdy

            No. She lives in NYC.

    • Sidney18511

      Cap…does anyone in your family have contact with her at all or was she completely sucked up into the land of clams?

      • Captain Howdy

        She got involved with the cult when she was down and out on the streets of NYC. Our parents are deceased and that’s it for family members. From what I’ve read she’s considered a nasty piece of work even for the OSA. Unfortunately she had children. Here’s hoping they blew when they got old enough.

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          I’m sorry.
          It must all be very hard. I can’t begin to imagine what holidays and special occasions are like i.e. your birthday, Mother’s and Father’s Day, even your sister’s birthday I would think.

          • Captain Howdy

            Thanks.

        • 1subgenius

          This is why.

        • q-bird

          Understood. Captain.

        • Sidney18511

          For you, it’s personal. So sorry cap. We can only hope she wakes up one day. Soon.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Bear hug from me. I had to find a Howdy appropriate bear first.

          [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/4hppvn.jpg[/IMG]

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Bear hug from me. I had to find a Howdy appropriate bear first.

          [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/4hppvn.jpg[/IMG]

          • Captain Howdy

            That’s about it.. HAH

        • SP ‘Onage

          Wow, sorry to hear that, Cap. :(

    • aquaclara

      Sorry about your sister, Captain. I hope she’ll see some of your spot-on comments, and find her way out.

      • Captain Howdy

        She’s been in over 30 years so I think that’s doubtful, but thanks anyway.

        • monkeyknickers

          I guess we have something in common. :(
          Well, not the 30 years bit, but you feel me.

  • stateofcircle

    Some of you may have seen this, but this is a fairly recent (within the past year) interview of Janet Reitman on Media Mayhem, which is a pretty good show. She talks about Scientology’s tactics with Journalists….nothing that new, but it is interesting, plus she talks about other tinfoily stuff. (And then find the episode Tony is on! Then Mark Ebner! Then the OTHER Mark Ebner episode!)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhojuJ4QtXk

  • stateofcircle

    i went waaaaaay down the youtube rabbit hole yesterday….it started with Bunker’s Beghe interview in full (and monkeyknickers, i totally get it), then a bunch of Tory’s speeches, then all of the Dublin Offlines 2012 videos (Go watch them if you haven’t…John McGhee needs to do waaaay more talking on camera) and then some random music stuff Howdy would probably appreciate. I need to de-cyber for awhile probably.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Oh n-o-o-o-o-o-o!!! Glad you made it back up for air. Next time, tell us you are going down the rabbit hole so we can send a rescue team (NOT the Volunteer Ministers) to pull you back up if you are not posting for several days.
      I know what that’s like. Have disappeared for days sometimes. And sometimes, I need to take a bath after because I actually feel dirty. I’ve taken to bookmarking links now and promising myself to read them later. You should see my “Scientology” bookmark folder!
      What works for me after as episode like yours, I go out in the garden or nature and/or read a hard copy newspaper to reground myself as to location and time to thoroughly de-cyber myself. It can actually take a few days. Seriously.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        I think we’ve all suffered from that rabbit hole; there should be a name for this syndrome!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Alice in Wonderland?

          • Captain Howdy

            Rabbitholeitus.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Scientitis?

        • 1subgenius

          Pro Causa Justitia

      • Captain Howdy

        Back in 2008-2010 I had to take weeks off due to scn dreams and me being unable to talk to anyone I knew about anything but scn. It’s an occupational hazard. Didn’t your Pfizer handler explain that to you?

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Pfizer? Thanks for the tip. My handler is from Lilly. Could ‘splain why I was told to go in nature and look for flowers by that name.

  • SciWatcher

    The Indies commenting over at Channel 4 all seem very excited about this program, as if it will somehow justify their own legitimacy. Let’s hope they’re disappointed in the end product.

    • tetloj

      Theo makes some comments about Marty which were quite unexpected. I thought they were still playing nice.

      • Captain Howdy

        i noticed that also. I saw him sucking up to Marty like yesterday or thereabouts. Maybe he thinks only europeans can view the site..derp!. That boy has some splainin to do

        • Sidney18511

          Theo’s nose must be a permanent shade of brown by now. I think this post was a suck-up to the “warrior” because MR the ninja of the tek is not only pushing Scientology anymore. He has morphed into some kind of Buddha.

  • Sidney18511

    ROMAN….if you stop by here today I want to let you know that there is a new thread on ESMB from a person who spent time on the MK ranch. He talks about how it screwed him up, but he is looking for others that were there at the same time that he was and one of their names is ROMAN.
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32110-Another-MK-RANCH-thread

    • Roman

      Sidney, Roman is just my nom de guerre. I only visited the MK ranch as a child, but was not a student there. I wasn’t strongly connected to many individuals who managed that place.

      • Sidney18511

        Thanks for the reply Roman. I am happy to know that you didn’t suffer in that hell hole.

  • hogarthian

    Hey people! been very busy on an end of year marking frenzy. I’ll be watching tonight and will update throughout.

    • aquaclara

      Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!
      and good luck on the end of the school year…wondered where you’ve been lately!

    • q-bird

      oh thanks Hoggie – I am very much hoping for this! ;-)

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thanks hog! By the way, aren’t you coming to the states this summer? Let us know!

      • hogarthian

        I am!….. some time from the 14th August ish….. I’ll let you know!

    • 1subgenius

      “Hey people! been very busy on an end of year marking frenzy”

      How hard could it be to roll dice?

      • hogarthian

        oh, trust me, my marking isn’t as labour intensive as rolling dice ;-)

  • aquaclara

    Does anyone know which building this is (in the photo above?)

    • Spackle Motion

      Yes, it is the Org that is on the same complex as Big Blue. It faces Sunset Blvd. in Los Angeles.

      • aquaclara

        the cult must have had an awful lot of paint to use up. I hope Benjamin Moore discontinued this particular shade of blue.

        • Spackle Motion

          It’s really depressing to drive around Hollywood (Hollywood & Sunset Blvds) and see so many Scientology buildings. When Scientology finally folds and the feds liquidate their holdings, there will be a lot of real estate for sale in Hollywood.

          • Exterrier

            I remember being told that they were the biggest single real estate holder in Hollywood. By the Hollywood chamber of Commerce. Maybe the Hollywood sign could be painted that blue color.

        • Captain Howdy

          One of my favs.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            My favorite, too, when I have a hankerin’ for another RPF nightmare. I shudder each time I see this shot.

            • Captain Howdy

              I actually like the architecture of the building. It’s very ominous looking. Kind of like Hill House in The Haunting.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              exactly. It looks a lot brighter, cleaned up than before. Many windows had no curtains or holy sheets hung half assed. It looked like it felt inside. Shrubbery is manicured now. But still ominous.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I remember when an EPFer found a 4 pound jar of Medicinal Cocaine down under those stairs, which used to be the pharmacy when it was Cedars of Lebonon. IIRC, it got repatriated to Cedars Sinai. They left a lot of stuff behind. I think they thought they would have time to clean out all that stuff, but once the sale was final, BOOM, the Sea Org moved in and took over. Ron Yoder did a bang up job of selling thousands of dollars of used but good condition medical equipment if I recall correctly.

              You can blame me and Doug Harlan for the blue.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Yeah, I friggin’ hauled a lot of the leftover rubble in the garage, EPF and RPF labor. The underbelly and tunnels of PAC is such a true picture of scientology. Some clever staff would get out out of study time by claiming screams of the ghosts from the morgue were too distracting and enturbulatin’. The staff study room was formerly the Morgue. I thought Hubbard dediced on all the hideous PAC colors, outside and inside. ?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Nah, He approved them though. We sent illustrations and he saw them. The paint once it was on, seemed a bit more ‘intense’ though. I think it had the highest pigment load of any paint then commercially made. Doug figured out the designs mostly. I figured out how to do the masking and getting good lines. I think the painters hated us for all the work though. The painting was going so fast a lot of the under paint pulled up when the drafting tape was pulled off. We didn’t know about painter’s tape back then.
              Hubbard wanted it to ‘not look like a hospital’ using paint and decor alone. Like those 300 pound doors didn’t give it away.
              The original architect did a nice ‘desert sand’ pastel scheme. Hubbard rejected that as being insipid and blending into the wog world. He wanted something to stand out and to show all the buildings were part of the same group. We were not experts by any means, just trying to get it done. Our bright idea was to use bright colors and patterns to lighten up the inside and break up the boxy hospital lines. It turned out a bit more garish than we thought it would. But we had already gotten the 30,000 gallons of custom mixed paint, so there you go.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh, lordy. For me, that’s a confession! hah. Thanks for putting out the real story. Hubbard got his wish….no one thinks of hospital now, just big blue cult.

            • FistOfXenu

              Blue Clam Cult?

            • aquaclara

              30,000 gallons of Scilon blue…30,000. That’s the highest stat of any reported in COS so far.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Actually, I think that was just for the various colors for the interiors. A commercial painting firm did a thick spray on blue color textured paint for the exterior.

            • dbloch7986

              That sounds very hubbardian. I’m not surprised about the mistakes you made. They often fail to properly train people before sending them to a job, regardless of importance.

              When i was on the EPF we “washed” several bathrooms using floor sealant because the bottle looked like floor cleaner and the org didn’t have any floor cleaner in stock.

            • aquaclara

              Just the thought of that is frightening. And more slave labor. Sorry you had to go through all that….

            • Captain Howdy

              Four pound jar of medicinal coke!?!? Was LRH still alive? Whoever found it missed out on getting their bridge for free (and then some) by turning it in.

            • aquaclara

              Wow. so were any renovations done to the property when people moved in? How did you get the building painted and things cleaned out? Love your descriptions.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              So the EPF lived mostly in Lebanon Hall, the tall rectangle in the middle of the block. That was not renovated until later. About 200-250 people. And for starters, the RPF lived on the 7th floor, over 100 crowded into one floor. That grew fast to over 200 and more. Then they started moving them around, either in the unrenovated spaces in the main building or in the tunnels and old morgue below street level. RPFs RPF for a time, was in a storm fencing wire cage in the tunnels under ASHO, near where the morgue used to be.

              LAOrg was renovated first, and then the existing LAOrg was moved in when it was finished. ASHO was renovated next, and when done, the existing ASHO on Temple street was moved in. Same way with AOLA. Then berthing spaces were given renos and management areas like OSA was above the long section of LAOrg that connected to ASHO.

            • aquaclara

              Every single day, there is more about this creepy cult that just shocks me. Add this to the list. Between your descriptions, Derek’s nightmares and THDNE’s hard labor moving rubble, this building now qualifies as the creepiest place in California. With no shooping needed.

              I’m mad and sorry for you all at the same time. But so glad you’re here.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Me too!

              Yea, it’s creepy. Thanks for your thoughts and support.

              I don’t know how many here know of the 30 hours working : 3 hours nap schedule the EPF and RPF did the last few weeks of the 49 day renovation of AOLA.

              That essentially was the point where I left the sea org the first time.

            • dbloch7986

              I wonder if that four pounds of coke is why the executives are so aggressive and crass.

            • aquaclara

              There will be a day very soon when this building crumbles under the weight of the church’s lies, deceit and destruction, and all the blue paint in the world won’t be able to fix it. I think it’s starting already….chip, chip….chip…

            • Bella Legosi

              Now if only we can get them to stop feeding it to their followers!

              :P’

              I’d say let Little Boots continue eating the lead based ones that were painted on top of asbestos!

              hmmmmm with all the work SO do……..has that not come up in Co$ before? I am seriously curious now if any exes out there know of those who worked in the SO came down with mesotheleoma.

          • dbloch7986

            I think the creepiest and most telling part about this building, is that no one uses the front entrance, even though it is so grand. Not to mention that all windows are blocked, and stay that way.

            The inside is even more squalid looking and drab than the outside. Only special, high-ranking people are given the renovated rooms. Which run out quickly. At times you are sent to live in dirty, moldy and smelly rooms just because you are in “lower conditions”.

            On the first floor of the right wing is where my room was, the one that I was sharing with 30 other boys and men. It stank, there’s no A/C or circulation. Not even fans. The floor is just a drab, moldy carpet over a concrete base. Extremely uncomfortable. It would be scorching hot during the summer and freezing cold during the winter.

            Probably the most awful and unspoken aspect of living in there is the rampant theft. No one can afford their basic necessities, such as hygiene products and the Sea Org barely has enough uniforms to go around. I had to lock up my uniforms and hygiene products or they would be almost immediately stolen.

            For someone who had been taught that he was living with the most ethical people on the planet, that was very disturbing. My parents bought me CDs and a player and all kinds of hygiene products, snacks, slippers and a bath robe. All of them were stolen within a week. It really is basically living in squalor.

            I attempted to report the thefts to security, but they simply look the other way because there is nothing they can do about it. I never actually came across someone who had stolen my things so I am guessing that either security themselves stole it because I don’t know who else would be entering that room.

            Athlete’s foot was rampant because of the substandard living conditions. Insects were also a problem. Everyone was required to make their beds every day, or a picture of your bed would be posted up for everyone to see all over the base. This was a daily project. More than once someone messed my bed up out of spite. I have no idea who did it. Probably the same jerk off that stole my things.

            Anyway, I better stop now. This is making me mad.

            • John P.

              Derek, what is so unnerving about the cult is that after reading your heartfelt post describing vividly the squalor and the abuse you suffered in the form of constant banal, petty theft, that it is hard to summon the outrage that your experience deserves. It risks fading all too quickly into just another disgusting horror story of life in Scientology. I am sorry that I am merely human and some days the best I can do is say, “I am not at all surprised” when I hear about stuff like this. Of course, though I’m numbed to the misery, it’s easy to feel the positive: congratulations for the spirit you show in rebounding so well from the soul-sucking desperation of those days.

            • dbloch7986

              Thanks John! It is still disturbing looking back on everything I went through. The frustration that I could barely contain. It took me so long to learn to suppress those emotions so I could barely maintain some semblance of “normality”.

              Now that my emotions have been resurfacing, I find it difficult to face them sometimes. Of course it helps that I’ve learned how to express them through my writing. It’s immensely therapeutic.

              I am glad that my memories are returning so I can share them with everyone here.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Many of us feel the way John P just so eloquently described. Keep the pen moving!

            • SciWatcher

              Just reading about it makes me angry! So glad you got out, Derek.

            • dbloch7986

              Talking about it brings up feelings of anger, hopelessness, disgust and frustration. It’s strange being able to feel those things again. I spent so many years learning to suppress my emotions for the greater good. I’m just now learning again that emotions of any kind can be used as a tool.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              My favorite dream is that entire wing being demolished in a flash, and fireworks going off against the dark skies and music playing off from somewhere, all of us who entered those halls standing outside, silent but smiling. Now we can all go home, knowing no child will ever, ever suffer in scientology’s shadows again.

            • dbloch7986

              I had a dream the other day that I finally screamed back at my father about the whole disconnection situation. It felt nice even though it wasn’t real.

            • Snuzey

              I’ve resolved many shitty feelings through dreaming. Dreams can be very therapeutic :)

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              I was just finishing up a thoughtful response but f*****g Disqus gobbled it up (again).

              So I will simply say this – see John P.’s posts – and that I agree with all his statements and sentiments. I am sure you will get many comments once people read your post.

              Please know that I enjoy your writing style. Your writing creates very vivid mental images and mini-films for me. I also don’t sense any self-pitying in your writing although I sense incredible sadness and sorrow at times and, by extension, so do I – for what you have had to go through as a child, young person, and now as a (youngish) adult.

              And one of the more extraordinary aspects of your experiences is that you went through all this, pre and post-cult, alone. I know you give credit to a few of your new found friends whom you call family but the distance you have traveled since then until now – basically on your own – is almost beyond belief.

              “Tu est incroyable!” And in case you don’t know French, that means “You are incredible!”

              P.S. I have spent a good half hour on this blog, your own, and a few others looking for your funding site. Could you repost it again? Thanks.

              Oh yeah, don’t be shy about displaying it boldly on your blog and also if it is possible, as some sort of signature, at the end of each of your posts until you’ve met your goal.

            • dbloch7986

              Thank you! I give a lot of credit to various people I have met a long the way. I certainly didn’t do it 100% on my own, but as with any kind of adversity, it did take considerable effort on my part to overcome.

              I tend to think about it as all in the past, but there are still things that affect me, to this day. I’m doing my best to heal those wounds but it takes time.

              Here’s my site: http://www.gofundme.com/15sp1k

              Thanks for asking!

              I am really excited about the move. I have set the “official” date at September 1st. I will hopefully be at my aunt’s house by the 3rd or 4th at the latest!

            • Captain Howdy

              It sounds more like a youth detention facility than a religious one.

            • dbloch7986

              That’s exactly what it is. That place is built to keep people in.

            • aquaclara

              Thanks, Derek, for this vivid description. I hope the nightmares fade for you soon! And I just want to add that I’m echoing everyone else’s comments here – you have done an amazing job of getting yourself out of there and focused on your future. I hope, too, that your writing continues….you have a huge talent.
              Hugs!!

            • MissCandle

              So they are good at screwing lives up in both big and small ways.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Every time I think about a Scion building I think of a shadowy, gothic building sitting on the side of a cliff with the raging torrent of the sea pounding on dagger-sharp rocks below it and ominous organ music in the background. Kind of like the beginning of Dark Shadows. Don’t care how gold and gaudy the Idle Morgues are, that’s what I see. Someone should do a parody of Young Frankenstein with Scientology as the theme–a parody of a parody.

        • ze moo

          I hear the lyrics, ‘they’re creepy and they’re spooky ”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YFk4b6yeX4

          • 1subgenius

            “Altogether ooky.”

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            They’re creepy and they’re kooky
            Mysterious and spooky
            They’re all together ooky
            Scientology.

            The Idle Morgue is a museum
            More like a mausoleum
            They really are a scream
            Scientology.

            The RPF is a rave
            The Hole is a fav
            They are all together wiggy
            Scientology.

            They will sue you to oblivion
            And cut you from your kin
            They really are a blast
            Scientology.

            If no respect now
            Be hearin from Karen Pouw
            They are all together Nazis
            Scientology.

            They make you think you are inferior
            If you don’t go exterior
            They really are a nightmare
            Scientology

            So get your RPF duds on
            Put your tampon camera on
            We’re gonna pay a call on
            Scientology.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
  • Snuzey

    I’m cracking open a bottle of wine for tonights show! Channel 4 do brilliant documentaries generally :)

  • DeElizabethan

    Supah story, thanks and will look forward to seeing it here in the US. What would we do without ya?

  • California

    Is anyone going to put it on YouTube? Please?

  • HeatherGraceful

    Exciting!

  • Sidney18511

    This doc might just push off some “fence sitters” who are worried about being cut off from Scientology. They will now know that there are many free zoners out there and will realize the story about “just a few bitter apostates” is bullshit

  • Zana

    I hope they make their documentary available on a website for a $4 or $5 fee. They’d make a lot of money and we’d all be able to see it…along with the rest of the world.

  • TonyOrtega

    30 minutes to go!

  • SopranoAscends

    Until we can access the film, here is the BBC4 website. The comments are piling up!

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/scientologists-at-war/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1

    • Graham

      Just to give credit where it’s due: Channel 4’s an excellent outfit, but it’s not part of the BBC.

      • SopranoAscends

        I stand corrected. Thank you, Graham. If anyone finds an external link, please let us know.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Just saw a little ‘up next’ preview featuring squirrel busters ….

  • media_lush

    and so it begins…… a dancing sequence?, who knew that Tony could tap dance?

    • TonyOrtega

      Tommy Davis tap danced. I tango.

    • hogarthian

      That was Mike Laws that talked about Marty shouting at him.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Great job, Media..

  • hogarthian

    oooooooooo…… IT’S STARTED!

  • hogarthian

    “I am the anvil that breaks all hammers”…. he says.

    • Observer

      Marty said that about himself? OMG

      • hogarthian

        yup.

        • Observer

          Oh dear Xenu.

          • FistOfXenu

            Right here Obs, but I can’t help it if the guy’s a dick. I couldn’t get the stream to stop stalling and I gave up so I don’t know what happened yet. But if it’s comfort you need just think: it sounds like the guy’s shown himself up on TV.

      • SciWatcher

        So will he come across as an arrogant prick to people who are not familiar with him?

        • hogarthian

          I fear not. He’s clever y’see. He manages his own character flaws very well when he’s in public.

        • Observer

          I don’t see how he can avoid it.

          And it’s not like that would be a false impression.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

      He obviously heard someone call him “dumb as a sack of hammers” but didn’t hear it clearly.

  • hogarthian

    Tony!… just seen ya!

  • hogarthian

    and one of the Jackson sisters?!…. oops, my bad, it’s Karen.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Karen is on now telling her story

  • Eivol Ekdal

    commercial break…
    So we had brief history of $cientology.
    recap of the Xenu story.
    Marty talking about working for the church during the rise of Miscavige
    A bit of Karen’s story and a mention of Heber
    Tony talking about the church’s scare tactics and their triumph over the IRS
    Now onto grooming Cruise

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty out of the picture now that Dave and Tom are BFF.
    Sent to RPF (The Hole)
    Marty talks about life in the hole.
    Queen – Bohemian Rhapsody Musical Chair Story
    Marty escaped like Steve McQueen
    Returns to Scilon carpentry mill.
    While Dave’s love for Tom grows
    Marty – escapes to Texas

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Holy musical chair games! cool

  • hogarthian

    oh here we go…. ‘marty hated the church but he loved scientology’. He became a shadow of his former self, couldn’t eat, his wife says he couldn’t fill the hole that abandoning his religion had left.

    • hogarthian

      Seeing how much he liked to help people, Mosey persuaded him….. to try again. Fabulous. Well done Mosey!

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty – sets up shop – indie stlye

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Squirrel Busters up next after break
    advert for Flexitol Heel Balm

    • Observer

      Do they have ads for psych drugs in the UK like they do here? Because that would have been soooo perfect …

      • Snuzey

        no just heel softening cream and weight loss pills… i guess davey could use the cream for all the stomping he’s probably doing.

      • hogarthian

        No, they’re not allowed to advertise prescription medication here, at all. That’s why I LOVE visiting America… those ads are just fabulous… and then they 700 word disclaimer that they have to squeeze in in 6 seconds at the end ‘this might kill you or give you a yeast infection, you may go a little mad, or want to kill yourself or other people’…. hilarious!

        • Observer

          Yeah … one actual benefit. 75 harmful and/or potentially fatal side effects. Sign me up for that!

        • Robert Eckert

          … side-effects may include impotence, flatulence, death, or an itch right in the middle of your back where you can’t reach it…

          • Observer

            My favorite side effect is the sleep medication one where people get up and do waking-hour stuff in their sleep, like driving around, ordering stuff off the Internet or baking.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/business/15drug.ready.html?pagewanted=all

            • ParticleMom

              On Abien I would pick out all the cookie dough bits from the ice cream and leave it on the counter, lol.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

          “Do not handle if pregnant or planning to become pregnant.”

          Holy crap. Might as well say “Do not handle concentrated evil without protective clothing.”

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          My favorite was a restless leg syndrome medication ad with a warning that it could lead to compulsive gambling. It’s such an oddly specific psychological effect.

          • hogarthian

            Fabulous!

  • hogarthian

    “when you tell someone you’re a scientologist, their face drops, but if you tell them that you’re an INDEPENDENT scientologist, their face brightens up again”…… errrrrrr, no, no it really doesn’t.

    • Observer

      I don’t know anyone (outside the ranks of our ilk) who doesn’t think “Tom Cruise jumping on a couch” when they hear “Scientology.” They don’t have a clue that there’s any difference at all. Marty certainly hasn’t lost his capacity for self-delusion.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        Just looked at his blog to see if there was any reference to this show in the form of an article or today’s comments.

        I think we may be witness to a messiah complex forming that rivals LRH. From his 6/4/13 post:

        I suggest I can help with a) repair Reverse-Scientology application people may have experienced, b) repair/rehab any grade or level that might be incomplete or ‘out’, c) put one’s Scientology experience into perspective from which growth is possible, d) graduate people from the cult and any lingering cult think, or fixation with the cult experience people might be walking around with, e) guide people toward a meaningful transcendence from their Scientology-inflicted obsessions, and f) help OTs transcend the captive, glass ceiling dimension they’ve been led into.

        By popular consensus among independent Scientologists, communicated in various ways, the core ideas I propose and what I do cannot be accepted under the title ‘Scientology.’ I accept that. So, there is no more reason to discuss the chapter of trying to win folk over to my ideas to the contrary. It is history.

        I do not go by any labels and I am not a member of, nor am I affiliated with, any groups.”

        • MissCandle

          Ah, thank Xenu the true Messiah has come to lead us to the promised land.

          • FistOfXenu

            Don’t blame me the this guy. I think he should be stuffed back down a fucking volcano. I got the H-bomb ready right here.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              If that means there will be Marty BTs out there… maybe you should reconsider.

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            I’m not sure I’m amused to be invoked in this context.

            That said … if he wants to lead his faithful around a desert for 40 years …..

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m unfamiliar with all of Marty’s position, but to play devil’s advocate, could it be that he’s trying to merely get around any suits as far as as Co$ is concerned?

          • FistOfXenu

            You might be right but they don’t seem interested in suing, just fair gaming. And that won’t stop while he’s “auditing” and using the e-meter and squirreling and all that. They have a history of going after groups that squirrel the tech no matter what the name is and even if they don’t admit they have a connection to $cientarCONon. I think it’s even policy.

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            I will admit to not reading his blog much since he began drifting from the reason I found him in the first place (ie, first person accounts of life as 2nd in command).

            What strikes me as odd has been a thread of (IMHO) he will bring you to the next spiritual level of enlightenment as an operating thetan because CoS is doing it all wrong and you need to be fixed and BTW I’m going to use all kinds of theories, philosophies and techniques that are rejected by our common faith in LRH technology. To me, this would be akin to former Orthodox rabbi telling someone that they just need to pray the Rosary, perform the Hajj and eat bacon twice a day to progress spiritually.

            As an outsider … it just seems odd. Is LRH right -or- not? Is Scientology (practiced independently and not in an abusive fashion) right -or- not? Or is his trying to reconcile two realities: what he believed before joining SO and what he came to believe while in? I have no idea … but again it seems odd.

            Then again … most everything on this topic seems odd and I’ve got several millennia on the rest of you.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think what Marty’s doing is basically going through Comparative Religion 101. Look at it this way: Marty has no real experience with other religions or philosophies or the whole field of psychiatry or psychology.

              He spent many years in the environment of Co$ and had his basic belief system warped by LRH. He has had no experience with anything else but the crap baked into his mind from LRH. Co$ has no mechanism for questioning or examining itself like more established belief systems, it is a closed system.

              Since he couldn’t blame LRH for the crap involved with $cientology because that would be too radical a step, he and Mike chose to attack the one who directly abused him: DM. Marty and Mike are so focused on DM that they aren’t able to see the basic corruption of LRH.

              The indoctrination of Marty and Mike have left them not only ignorant of religion, psychology and psychiatry, but hostile particularly to any other study of the mind.

              They’re stuck in a time warp of 60 years ago, and all the strides made in the intervening time means nothing to them. They still probably considers it entheta because of LRH, and since every term has been “word cleared” according to LRH’s dictionary – they’ve
              been precluded from understanding anything in a different framework – like the rest of the world.

              The only way they have to earn money is to offer counseling in an ecclesiastical setting — spiritual counseling.

              It will be interesting to see where Mike and Marty are in 5 or even 10 years.

  • Roger Larsson

    It’s more like…..Children in kindergarden writing an essay about the fucking in scientology. Adults have more experience in $cientology?

  • Snuzey

    Its good but it’s a bit Marty Rathbun show at the moment…

    • hogarthian

      Yes, I agree. Hopefully they’re setting him up for a fall, we’ll see.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        I don’t think they will go that far. He is still too much of an asset to journalists.

        • hogarthian

          I fear you may be right.

  • Snuzey

    Am i allowed to say Tony = Totty?

    • hogarthian

      oh yes, I think that would be fine.

  • hogarthian

    I’m sorry, I’m gonna dumb it down. A sleeveless vest and a baseball cap worn backwards is really not a good look on a middle aged man.

    • 1subgenius

      Words fail.
      Don’t be this guy.

      • FistOfXenu

        Looks like he doesn’t know the right way to put on a condom.

        • 1subgenius

          The real kicker, of course, is that he’s shielding his eyes with his hand when that’s what the brim is for. What an ass.

          • FistOfXenu

            Oh. That’s his head. And a cap.
            :D

      • monkeyknickers

        Oh what a pleasure that was for me subgenius! I laughed out loud.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty is specially trained against the effects of the Squirrel busters!!!

    • Captain Howdy

      Dam, how long are commercial breaks in the Uk?

      I suggest Elvol do the play by play and hogarthian do the color commentary

      • sugarplumfairy

        They’re a great team..

  • hogarthian

    OH! “how do you feel now that the same tactics are being used against you?” Reply, with irritation “that’s not a proper question” Right. Ok.

    • Snuzey

      and he doesnt read the stuff about people asking him to apologise for what he has done. yep still a scientologist!

      • SciWatcher

        They asked him about that?

        • Snuzey

          yes just posed that question and that was his reply “i dont read that stuff”

          • FistOfXenu

            Wow. He really does still have his head up his ass then?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      MR: “i knew it wasn’t alright. That’s why i left.” (from WWP commentary of C4″ Yep, after decades and thousands harmed it was just a coincidink he realized this only when He landed in a Hole.

      • FistOfXenu

        He claims he knew all along? The more I hear the more I gotta see this. MR sounds like he moved house to live in another guh-LAX-y.

    • dbloch7986

      He would say something like that…

      • Observer

        You can just feel his remorse, can’t you?

        • hogarthian

          Oh yes, trust me, there was no remorse.

        • dbloch7986

          I think that he is incapable of understanding what exactly it is that he did. He personally contributed to building an empire that functions on and revolves around child labor and abuse.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Because he still believes Hubbard’s drivel.
            At least enough to keep him in that safe little bubble.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Certain types of personalities (ahem) live out their lives in a bubble. If it wasn’t Hubbard, it would be somebody or something else. He appears to be branching out to other somebodies who agree with his way of thinking. It’s not All bad. Living in a bubble has some benefits…

              [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/fy1suq.jpg[/IMG]

          • Observer

            If he ever reaches the point where he starts to understand it I imagine he will just rationalize it away, like he’s done with his Sci-sponsored thuggery.

            • FistOfXenu

              He just needs help getting back on the road out. Haven’t posted this in a while so here it is again.

              http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

              Considering how literal the last steps would be for him we can’t be surprised he’s avoiding this.

    • Observer

      It looks like that’s the hammer that dents the anvil. Haha

      • hogarthian

        lol!

  • hogarthian

    who the fuck is that mad harridan of a woman laughing maniacally? She’s clearly dehydrated, given that shit that’s gathered at the corner of her mouth. yuk.

    • Captain Howdy

      Is it the Oracle?

      • hogarthian

        dunno…. blonde hair, about mid late 50’s maybe? glasses. voice that could shatter glass.

      • Snuzey

        oooh i was wondering who that was! she did look nuts but that could be any number of scientologists!

        • Captain Howdy

          Did they say she was an Indie?

          • Snuzey

            no this was a squirrel buster….

            • Captain Howdy

              Oh must be that old broad that moosey pwned

    • tetloj

      Missed you H. Maybe it’s Mrs Allender

      • hogarthian

        it’s frustrating…. ‘cos I only know who the biggies are!

      • Captain Howdy

        Oh yeah, was that allender’s wife in the vid?

        • hogarthian

          It was the lady in the middle here, or maybe it wasn’t? I’ll check again.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Cal-Mag residue

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty – the man “on a mission” to right 30 years of Scientology’s wrongs…..
    :(

    • SciWatcher

      Yeah, but what about the thirty years before that?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        calls it 30 years of “wrongs” and then “this kind of activity”? um, wog dictionary: Crimes. Human Rights Abuse. Child labor, etceterah, ettceterah. Wog Diciontaries work and they Help law enforcement people. Say the Words, Marty. At least say the word.

      • FistOfXenu

        Those are the yrs he wants to reproduce, right?

  • hogarthian

    The sheriff has put marty in cuffs. Now THAT’S a good look on him.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty “Scientology is being practiced all over the world now, overtly”
    “Dozens of people are following my lead all over the world”

    • Eivol Ekdal

      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    • Captain Howdy

      Well he got the numbers right at least.

      • SP ‘Onage

        lmao!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      did he say dozens?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        maybe “a dozen”. not sure – will review tape later

      • Robert Eckert

        Straight up and vertical!

      • Eivol Ekdal

        he said “I have been overtly practicing for three years and dozens upon dozens have followed my lead around the world. You can read about it on my blog everyday””

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks for the clarification.

    • tetloj

      dozens….

    • Snuzey

      its starting to get a bit one sided now. its basically promoting independent scientology!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        imo, that is fantastic. The world will get to see them as they want to be seen, and how they think of themselves. this is a good thing. Education by innoculation.

    • Observer

      Hahahaha! Dozens!

      • stillgrace

        when I heard “dozens”, I thought it meant: dozens of auditors. May be wrong.

        • Observer

          That’s still a pitifully small number, no matter what they are. And that’s a good thing.

  • hogarthian

    “using the same surveillance tactics on me, in a way it’s karma”

    • Robert Eckert

      Ya think?

  • Snuzey

    he has just admitted that his harassment is his karma. you reap what you sow.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Really?
      Marty said that?

      Color me stunned!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Waiter…I’d like that with a double snark and a twist of irony. stat!

      • FistOfXenu

        Was he serious? Did he have his fingers crossed?

    • Captain Howdy

      And then he absolved himself in the next breath by saying he had made up for any wrong he did when he was in.

  • hogarthian

    Now they’ve gone to Israel to explore the whole mission which defected.

    • SP ‘Onage

      This is gonna be good!

      • hogarthian

        …. but then they didn’t explore it, really. :-(

        • SP ‘Onage

          Wait…do you mean the filmakers are going to Israel? Did I get it wrong?

          • hogarthian

            They went to Israel, for a New York minute.

            • SP ‘Onage

              Ahh, bummer.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Meh, another warning shot across the bow of scientology’s sinking ship. Their only life raft is their lawyers threats.

    If their belief system can’t withstand serious scrutiny, then those beliefs must be pretty weak.

    Good job, Joseph Martin, Danielle Clark, Michael Simkin and Tony Ortega. I can’t wait to see this video. It’s always refreshing to hear about journalists and filmmakers, who don’t back down from this tyrannical cult.

  • hogarthian

    “The situation is becoming unbearable for marty and mosey”….. awwwwwww.

  • hogarthian

    ‘he was known as the enforcer, wasn’t he’ ‘he was the one who got the things done that needed to be done, if that meant slamming someones head against the (?), then that’s what he did’….. or words to that effect.

    • tetloj

      Cos every church gotsa have an enforcer

    • FistOfXenu

      So if this indie guru gig doesn’t work out for him he’s got a promising career as a button in the Mafia. He just has to turn himself into a Sicilian. He can do that with postulates right?

      • SciWatcher

        Scilon to Sicilian: just add two i’s and change the o to a

        • FistOfXenu

          That gave me a good laugh. Thanks.

  • hogarthian

    ‘i’ve fulfilled my obligations in terms of making up for what i did in the church’

    • Captain Howdy

      In a pigs eye

    • SciWatcher

      Yeah, sure he has…what a douche.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        MR “we were just kids back then”. Um, how Old was Marty when he left? Hey, I’d have him over for dinner today if he’d at least agree that no Child will be put through Hubbard’s Purif torture or “ethics” torture, and adults too for that matter. He and his and others’ Indie’s blogs, in their Very Own Words, tells me and the rest of us Exactly what they plan to do, how they treat themselves as well as “outsiders” right now.

        What this lot doesn’t seem to get is that we are hoping for Their recovery too. But it is so much like any addiction. You must want help yourself first.

        Like it or not, all of us once involved, as well as those never involved but harmed just the same, we have a bond that is undeniable. Most of the time, I Don’t like it. But I have faced the fact that 1) some people were assholes and mental before scientology, and they’ll be the same after scientology. 2) some people are going to go down with the Hubbard ship no matter how many life rafts thrown out to sea.

    • Observer

      That right there belies the title of his blog. His conscience is rudimentary at best, but to me looks like it’s no more than a simulacrum of a real one.

      Not harming people anymore isn’t the same thing as making up for terrible harm he did.

      • hogarthian

        Yup, psychologically, he’s a hot mess.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Hubbard’s tech helps cure cancer, Purif is good if it’s Hubbard correct and science doesn’t matter, children get sec checked if they get ill and interrogated to find out who their “SP is….on and on. What they do behind their own closed doors, nobody’s business. “practicing” harmful quackery on other scientologists who insist, not my business. Setting up shop in Your neighborhood school to give speech and presentations on the Hubbard way of study and drug rehab on our kids. Still Harming People.

        • SP ‘Onage

          Let’s not forget smoking is good for us.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I’ll give them that one. I don’t hear any Smoke Moar campaigns.

            • SP ‘Onage

              LWrong must be disappointed.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yes…..yes I am.

      • Captain Howdy

        Marty forgave himself and in his way of thinking that’s all that matters. He as-ised his past and is moving on up a little higher. How convenient.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Yeah, right! Tell that to Lisa McPherson!

    • dbloch7986

      Riiiiiiight. There are so many kids still struggling under the regime that he helped create. He personally worked to build the church up and staff it with all the child labor that psychological torture and coercion could buy . He personally ensured that the Scientology would function well as a trap for children. He personally watched over and monitored the child abuse occurring in there.

      And he’s done what exactly to make up for what he did?

      Motherfucker.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I’d pay big $$$ to see you bitch slap him.

    • FistOfXenu

      Hang on. He said that?

    • mirele

      If he truly said that, I’d like to have a few words with him about Lisa McPherson.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        or gerry armstrong

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

      He’s probably talking about freeloader debt.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Marty in a U-Haul heading out of Ingleside

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      If I still wrote, that would be a perfect leading line for a country song.
      “Marty in a U-Haul, Heading out of Ingleside”
      Song title: “Marty in a U-Haul”

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I suddenly miss my guitars!!!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          ipad guitars?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Lol, nope, Martin, Guilds and Gibsons!
            Ah, the good old days!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Sigh… My first was an Epiphone–back when Gibson made them

            • Captain Howdy

              Best looking guitar ever

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Which one?

            • monkeyknickers

              You sold your Martin BTN? I am shedding hot salty tears for you and wishing I could give you a big hug. :(

        • monkeyknickers

          What do you mean “miss your guitars”?? Do you play? Did you sell your gear!? God is that some serious heartache . . .

  • kw86

    Currently watching the documentary here in UK….well done to producers and makers for outing these bizzare efforts to silence the human right to have your own mind. Good luck also as they will no doubt get harrassed for doing this doc. However its so important to get this out there as most dont have a clue what goes on in this ‘religion’.

  • tetloj

    Screen grabs at WWP

  • SciWatcher

    Thanks to the UK bunkerites who blogged for us!

  • Snuzey

    He’s done alright out of leaving considering he had nothing when he left!

  • hogarthian

    The usual church denials.. noone is leaving, marty wasn’t in management, IRS stuff is nonsense, squirrel busters is a seperate organisation blah blah blah. THE END.

    • Captain Howdy

      THANK YOU and Eivol Ekdal from your excellence in broadcasting. Jolly Good Show.

      • Observer

        Seconded! It sounds like they did get some hard, or at least hardish, questions in.

      • hogarthian

        The pleasure was all mine!

        • SP ‘Onage

          Thank you! :)

      • Eivol Ekdal

        It was fun!

        • SP ‘Onage

          Thanks!

      • Sandy

        YES! Thanks so much for the coverage!!!

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          Ditto that!

  • Snuzey

    He is no longer a scientologist! did i hear that right?

    • hogarthian

      Yes, no longer a scientologist, but now practices independently.

      • FistOfXenu

        So now that he’s not a $cientologist what is it he’s practicing?

        • Robert Eckert

          Me-ism

          • FistOfXenu

            Lol – sounds like Marty.

        • CommunicatorIC

          I read Marty’s blog regularly. My take, and it is only my take, is that he mixes *some* Scientology “tech” with other practices, principally Taoism, Buddhism, psychotherapy and psychology.

          • FistOfXenu

            isn’t mixing practices some kind of crime in Hubbardism or do I have that wrong?

            • Bella Legosi

              I think you are right.

        • hogarthian

          Fuck knows.

    • CommunicatorIC

      Marty: “By popular consensus among independent Scientologists, communicated in
      various ways, the core ideas I propose and what I do cannot be accepted
      under the title ‘Scientology.’ I accept that. So, there is no more
      reason to discuss the chapter of trying to win folk over to my ideas to
      the contrary. It is history.

      I do not go by any labels and I am not a member of, nor am I affiliated with, any groups.”

      Source: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/04/ripple-in-still-water/

      .

      • Snuzey

        Has he turned his back on LRH though? What is he trying to say?

        • tetloj

          That’s not an unusual response to Marty’s blog…”I read what he wrote – but what’s he trying to say”

          • Snuzey

            ah well there you go…. it just sounds like a ‘leave me alone’ kind of statement.

          • Observer

            Snort!

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          Buy his last 3 books and read the years of blog posts. That’s his usual reply.

          • Captain Howdy

            Marty is a shameless self promoter. You can’t get through one of his blogs and it’s comments without him promoting his “books’ at least a dozen times.

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            Grunt! You got that right. Pitiful, pitiful…

            I think his last book isn’t doing so well even though he has been flogging it in almost all his posts for quite a while. He’s even worked in 2 books in the same post. Was just at Marty’s blog looking for post-Channel 4 documentary comments and found this:

            http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/letting-go/

            “…( I know this is off topic, but your book, I’d agree is NOT getting the attention and discussion it deserves!)…Your 3rd book is well edited, and definitely your best book yet.”

            Oh, in case you were following the comments on Channel 4, you might want to check out the ones at Marty’s too – the same link and day. They are just starting to dribble in now. It’ll be best late tomorrow.

            Funny to see if he responds, but at 4:43 pm a new poster asked him: “Anyways, I’ve just signed up but I have a couple of questions: 1. Why did it take you so long to leave when you knew its practices were deplorable? 2. Did you ever really believe in all the Xenu stuff, in fact do you still? Take care.”

      • Observer

        Reading between the lines, I see “New guru looking for acolytes.”

        • SP ‘Onage

          Oh gawd, maybe he’s going to start a new religion?

      • Graham

        So now he’s just a therapist practising some kind of ‘lie detector’ based therapy?

  • hogarthian

    Ok, so, quick précis. Not the critical analysis that i’d hoped for, in any way. No real exploration of Marty ‘the man’ (perhaps that’s because they found that he wasn’t one), or any examination of possible alternate viewpoints to his. It was very much ‘poor marty, trying to live his life and follow his faith and help others to do the same with his adoring wife by his side’. Overall, a disappointment. Although of course, any negative publicity is good publicity, and of course, always a pleasure to see Mr. Ortega ‘in the flesh’, so to speak ;-)

    • tetloj

      So not quite the event for connoisseurs of human gullibility that the Guardian suggested

      • hogarthian

        No. I’m not even gonna post a link on my fb page because, for people who know nowt about it, their response would be “scientology doesn’t look very nice, they need to leave that poor man alone”…. which, as an initial opinion, would do more harm than good.

    • Snuzey

      yep all the above and definitely the last bit! ;-)

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I am hearing way too much ‘ Marty’.

    Disturbed!

    • Snuzey

      It was All About Marty.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Thanks for falling on the sword for us then.

    • Jgg2012

      Remember that Marty destroyed documents in the Lisa McPherson case. He is not a saint. And he certainly isn’t Martin Luther.

  • Terry D

    I’ve just seen the Channel 4 documentary and wow, how scary was that? Those Squirrel Busters were out of control – how is it possible for what they did NOT to be illegal? The cackling woman was plainly in serious need of medication, and the guys were threatening, plain and simple. Based on their actions, (and the appearance of surveillance cameras in the rented out house opposite), I can only assume that the church of Scientology are indeed a dangerous cult.

    • TonyOrtega

      Thanks for stopping by, Terry D. We had the same reaction when we first learned about the Squirrel Busters back in 2011 — how was that legal? Still amazes us.

    • Graham

      Yes, ‘cackling woman’ looked seriously deranged. An extremely bad advert for Scientology.

      • Observer

        But more truthful than anything they’ll tell you.

      • FistOfXenu

        We need a short clip of her doing her imitation of the witch in Snow White with the caption “$cientology can make you just like her” or something. She’s great PR.

  • Mark

    Well, the programme got one thing wrong – the independents started way before Mr Rathbun blew the org. There was a documentary series here in the UK (at least five years ago, I’d guess; it may even have been on Ch 4) which sampled “new religions” and tried to get permission to film a ‘real’ Co$ course being taken: but of course, no dice with the poison dwarf in charge. So they did the next best thing and filmed some squirrels happily mocking stuff up with Plasticene in the middle of nowhere somewhere in Germany. At least it saved the programme-makers an awful lot of money!

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Are you talking about the one with Hardeep? — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emKvMPGSc0s

      • Mark

        Yes! (thank goodness you’ve got a better memory than me PTBA2) Thanks for the link ;-)

    • FistOfXenu

      I thought I read there were independents going back to the early 80’s when the GO convictions came through.

      By the way, connection here is too slow to stream anything. Disqus is running like molasses in a Manitoba winter.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        There have been independents and splinter groups since Dianetics. I’m going to stick with the bubble analogy here. All it has ever accomplished is multiplying the refractions of delusion and illusion. One important factor however: any indie or splinter group doesn’t have religious cloaking protection like the main corporation headquarters or the reserves. Most don’t last because of these factors as well as either a) lack of vulture regging and oppressive, orwellian pseudo ethics manipulation or b) including oppressive, orwelligan pseudo ethics manipulation.

        It’s almost like you need vulture regging and oppression to run a successful, long term scam.

        [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/33y57gw.jpg[/IMG]

      • Mark

        I’m sure you’re right: there was David Mayo who got driven out of business as an independent when Lafayette Ronald was still alive. But then Hubbard plagiarized so much of his ragbag of beliefs that almost anything that even vaguely resembled his supposed “tech” could be counted as “squirrelling” (BTW: how ugly his coinages and neologisms were!)

        For example, I recently found out from my former librarian cousin where he probably pinched the idea of the “MEST” universe from. There is an old library classification system with the unappealing name of ‘Colon’ that has five basic divisions: Person, Matter or property, Energy, Space, and Time – PMEST for short – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification

        My guess is that Hubbard picked that little nugget of wisdom up while he was malingering in the Navy hospital after the war, trying to bump up his disability benefits, and desperate for reading-matter: a book on ‘library science’ would be just the sort of dull fare available in such a place…

      • Captain Howdy

        Yeah, the Freezone goes back decades.

      • Bella Legosi

        I read the same thing. Mimi Rodgers dad was one of the break offs in that time. But then there have been independents since Manson right? Now THAT really surprises people when I tell them Old Charlie got Audited……but then they laugh cuz when you think of it it shouldn’t be too surpriseing!

        Aye this world is weird!

  • Eivol Ekdal

    It is worth noting that at the start they did a brief summary of the Xenu story complete with graphics….
    which is always fun !

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Wonder how many pre-OT III’s immediately turned off the set in fear of getting pneumonia.

      • hogarthian

        oh hahahhahahhah!

      • SP ‘Onage

        Hahahahahahaha, wow…

    • FistOfXenu

      Aw shucks. Now I feel like a movie star. I guess I better give autographs.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        We’re talking Scientology … they expect to pay at least $100k to learn about you (only to deny me).

        Make sure to make them pay through the nose for each and -every- letter. You still use the long-form name, right?

  • Eivol Ekdal

    comment from the channel4 page…”
    Canuck on 17 June 2013 at 20:27

    if they are going to war, is there a way that we can arm both sides?”

    • SP ‘Onage

      dats funnie! :D

  • Tardy1967

    The program is up on channel 4 on demand for people in the uk who missed it, for those outside of the uk its possible to use a firefox adddon called Hola to access the channel 4 streaming site and watch Scientologists at War.

  • Seargeoh

    Scientology…what a joke.

    • sugarplumfairy

      With a very painful punch line ..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Which involves actual punching!

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Quoted from the very end of the channel4 program…

    The Church of Scientology states that Marty Rathbun has never been a part of its ecclesiastical management and although he has been publicly attacking the Church for four years, his claims had no discernible effect whatsoever

    It says that there is no evidence of a global independent movement and the Israeli mission is Haifa only ever numbered a few people and that some have since rejoined the Church

    The Church of scientology states there is nothing inappropriate about using sustained legal pressure to obtain legal redress and that the idea harassment was used to achieve tax exempt status is “obvious nonsense.”

    It also denies sending the Squirrel Busters. While acknowledging that some were Scientologists, Squirrel Busters Productions is a wholly seperate organisation

    The Church of Scientology denies putting Marty under surveillance but admits conducting a legal investigation into him “in furtherance of potential litigation.”

    • aquaclara

      Same old sh*t.
      Deny, deny, deny.
      Lie, lie, lie.
      Who says practice doesn’t make perfect?
      *rant over*
      Thanks for the excellent reporting, Eivol. It’s much appreciated!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Anyone else notice how much scientology is Admitting to in this response? Who is writing this stuff? Have the lawyers’ staff bolted too?

      “some have since rejoined” Confirming members revolting, leaving?
      “Squirrel Busters Productions is a wholly seperate organisation” They confirmed it is staffed by scientologists. Good PR image! Also, legal?

      “using sustained legal pressure” Technically legally correct, but a church that brags about such?

      “admits conducting a legal investigation” again, the Church of Investigations?

      and of course, “Marty Rathbun has never been a part of its ecclesiastical management” is their consistent footbullet which they still don’t seem to recognize as evidence they lie like a rug.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Squirrel Busters is a sikret OT platoon.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Baldly lying to the public, again. They’ll never change. *sigh*

  • media_lush

    Well, it’s difficult for me to make an overall unbiased critique as to already knowing so much about the backstory and scientology in general but here are a few things that stuck out to me.

    They do a good job showing how crazy the squirrel busters are…. cackling woman lingers in the memory. [Scion written bit at the end actually had to admit they were scientologists but ‘were doing their own thing’.

    limited Cruise footage but the bit they did use was perfect…. the bit where he says how brilliant and “compassionate” Miscavige was {bleeuurghh}.

    Marty admitting he made his living auditing…. but at the end he pretty much said he was no longer a scion.

    Great soundbites from Tony.

    A bit towards the end were it looks like Marty was about to break into tears discussing the second round of secret spying on him.

    and here’s a screengrab you’ll love …. Marty’s web stats! [anybody remember what happened on July 12th?]

    • RBE

      Up-stats!

    • RBE

      July 6th 2012 was just after Alexander Jentzsch died, near time Katie Holmes split from Tom Cruise and the Dror Center of Haifa in Israel went independent. Maybe Marty launched a DDOS attack against himself also to feed his narcissism?

  • Rob Kline

    Who is in the UK and is going to get that up on-line for us to view?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Check back in about 45 minutes to an hour. WWP Anon is on it and gave this time estimate.

      • Rob Kline

        awesome. can’t wait to see it. thnx for the 411.

  • Axiom142

    Just finished watching this documentary. It was great!

    It mostly focused on Marty Rathbun and his wife Mosey (Monique), but we also go some good turns from Tony Ortega and selected others including Karen de la Carriere, Mike Laws and of course the Squirrel Busters.

    The star of the show, undoubtedly was Marty’s wife, Monique. He is very lucky to have found such a wonderful life-partner. Tony O also came across very well, as did Mike and Karen.

    The Squirrel Busters not so much. In fact one of the women came across as a complete loon. Which is not so surprising when I think about it.

    And, they even used some of my footage of the IAS event in 2007 (see Axiom142’s YouTube channel)) which I was chuffed about – I am now an official documentary cameraman!

    Amusingly the cult denies that they placed Marty under surveillance, that the Squirrel Busters were anything to do with them or that they have ever harassed anyone. D’oh!

    What is the point of lying about this stuff that can so easily be proved? Stupid cult.

    • SciWatcher

      “He is very lucky to have found such a wonderful life-partner”

      I first read that as “wonderful lie-partner,” which would have been accurate

    • SP ‘Onage

      Like Pat Broeker, Marty will always be under surveillance.

  • Captain Howdy

    So is the woman in this vid “Cacklin Rosie”?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-NxNcDI8Xw

    • Eivol Ekdal

      She calls herself Joanne on camera…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Joanne Wheaton…. hooboy, Rabbit meet Hole

        “The widow of an Air Florida pilot whose jet plunged into the Potomac got $300,000 in workers’ compensation benefits for her husband’s death—and the next day donated nearly half the money to the Church of Scientology.”

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23874-Joanne-Wheaton-How-Scientology-Treats-Widows-and-Orphans

        http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=401426

        • Captain Howdy

          HAH! You just beat me to it!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I keep thinking Joanie Sigal, the OSA cackling volunteer. Fortunately, I have a trained ear to distinguish cackles.

        • ze moo

          She invested 1/2 of the workmans comp payment with Robert Almblad.

          http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/robert_almblad_scientology_clean_ice.php

          He has been on Marty’s site as an independent.

          http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/robert-almblad/

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You mean the guy Rinder works with? And Squirrel Buster Cackling lady is an investor?

            Jeez…it’s so hard to keep up with their organizational board any more!

            [IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/okag6t.jpg[/IMG]

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Whoa, this circle jerk just gave me a headache!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I’m so confused. it’s like some kind of ewwwy inbreeding

            • FistOfXenu

              Did any of them play a banjo?

            • Captain Howdy

              Don’t worry about the woo-woo. We need an on the road report. Where are you and what’s it like?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am back in Reno, Nevada at my sisters house. Sitting outside with a Coor’s light (not proud of that particular part).
              We did a fast road trip to southern Utah to spread my Dads ashes so he could be next to Morticia!
              Highway 50.

              If any of you have been on it….you know what it is like.
              Dystopian!

            • Captain Howdy

              Sounds like kind of a memory day.

              Here’s a visual for Highway 50

              http://youtu.be/gO3g8P7gnqs

      • FistOfXenu

        Wow! That’s her? The cackling witch? Night mare land. I might have to get drunk again tonight.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      In that video, she is identified as Joanne–so perhaps that is her

    • dbloch7986

      I absolutely love that video.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Ouch.. OOOoooOOOooo

    • Captain Howdy

      Is that you?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        I’m the ghostie that is turning away

        • Captain Howdy

          LoL..no, did you draw that?

          • Eivol Ekdal

            no – they are screenshots from the show, taken from the Xenu bit.
            I wish I drew that – artist is kinda talented

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah, good stuff

  • stateofcircle

    Off topic again, but so many of you have such great taste and I have learned a lot from everyone. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the author Augesten Burroughs and could recommend a book in the same vein as his. Thanks!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I love that guy.
      I also love David Sedaris.
      Different but similar….
      Me talk pretty one day is great.

      • stateofcircle

        He’s the best. I’ve read all of his books twice (except for that new fable one).

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Ha, that is funny….I re-read him too.
          And Augustin!

        • Captain Howdy

          You do realize that Sedaris and A. Burroughs have had their veracity questioned?

          They seem to belong to the same school of “non-fiction” as Lorenzo Carcaterra and JT LeRoy.

          • stateofcircle

            Sure…but it doesn’t mean they’re not enjoyable

            • Captain Howdy

              O.K

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1428470021 Jonathan Hendry

            Except Sedaris, at least, tells *funny* stories, not “this is my dramatic tragedy-filled life story” stories.

            Maybe somone in his family *wasn’t* wiping their ass on the brown towels. Or was, but didn’t eat corn. Who cares, it’s *funny*.

    • media_lush

      a left field approach is to go to Amazon and select the book and then see “people who bought this also liked this” at the bottom

      • stateofcircle

        Yes, but I tend to like recommendations from people whose opinions I like and respect, and whom I find very interesting.

    • Captain Howdy

      Yeah, “Junkie” by William Burroughs.

    • Bella Legosi

      I only read “Running With Scissors” and I really enjoyed it! But, I can’t say that I read any of his other works!

      *That enviroment he lived in was somewhat like the atmosphere at the care home I used to work for…….interesting to say the least*

  • Buzz_P

    To be honest, it would be nice to hear from someone who got their facts straight before writing comments from 2nd hand opinion. I believe people should judge from seeing it for themselves and then making that judgement, not from media. Plus, I work in TV, so I know how editing can twist things to be more one sided.
    I have walked into the headquarters of scientology in the UK at Saint Hill in East Grinstead and they did not hassle me or follow me around.
    Scientology was originally NOT a religion hence why it was all based on the subject science. Its due to their scientific research and evidence they found, there as a spiritual plane of existence. This is where they changed it to become a church. Therefore, I could understand why you pay for their knowledge, just as you do in life with schools and uni’s. How else are they gunna feed themselves and pay expenses?Scientology teaches skills to people that can be applied to life, to improve their life skills. There are many people who have applied formulas from scientology to their businesses and become sucessful. Of course, this is also what university does, they teach you the subject and everything about the subject you are learning. But, university doesn’t teach you how and what you are learning will relate to what you will be doing in real life.
    Secondly, strict scientologists dont believe in taking drugs into their body system. So I do understand why or where everyone thinks people who go there has been drugged up?!

    However, I do find it strange that they would follow investigators. If they had nothing to hide, why didnt they speak infront of camera?!

    • media_lush

      the FAIL is strong in this one

      • media_lush

        actually, this is so annoyingly and poorly written that it must be Marcotai trolling again…. is that you Marcotai?

        • ze moo

          Marcotai’s english fails in different ways. This is a new troll.

        • Captain Howdy

          I say…FAKE

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You can never start too early preparing for Staturday’s graphs.

      [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/ek7lc.jpg[/IMG]

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        you’ve got some great pics today, THDNE!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      You took a wrong turn and just drove over a cliff.
      Rest in peace.

    • stillgrace

      Bye Buzz … hope yur gunna find yur way back.

    • Proud to be an SP

      I am sorry to be rude, but were you educated by the church? Your spelling and grammar are both atrocious. I would advise a university. Actually, universities don’t teach “everything about the subject.” They teach the student to find out information for themselves, analyze, synthesize, and draw conclusions. They teach critical thinking as well as writing and reading comprehension. There are excellent remedial courses and kind and compassionate tutors as well.

    • stateofcircle

      Here we go with this “science” garbage again…

      • Bella Legosi

        AMEN!

    • ParticleMom

      Well, you are right on one thing. It WOULD be nice to hear from someone who gets their facts straight. You might need to do a little more research.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Well, at least you gave it the ol’ college try…….uh GED try instead perhaps?

      • Bella Legosi

        :(

        I was a GED kid lol

    • Bella Legosi

      You are right……Dianetics was originally more or less a self help system that Hubbard and a partner published. Then when Hubbard lost the rights to Dianetics he created the religion $cientology.

      So, can you see what I just tried pointing out in those two sentences?

      The reason why people think $cientologists looked “drugged up” is because we believe they ARE. But not on any substance taken in a bodily function, but mentally. I have heard a scientologist talk about the “euphoria” of auditing, so it doesn’t jump the logic shark to think that thru the auditing process a high is being manufactured. And the very simple answer is when people drink the cult Kool Aid, they get the non blinking, glassy eyed, 1000 yard stare………Hubbard may have thought this was effective, but the only thing it is effective at is creepiness and intimidation (go figure).

  • TonyOrtega

    NEW POST WITH THE DOCUMENTARY COMING UP IN TWO MINUTES

  • i-Betty

    The programme has now been posted on 4OD (on demand). Here’s the link:

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/scientologists-at-war/4od

    I do hope you can access it from where you are.

    xxx

    • i-Betty

      Ah, it’s okay – Tony is making a new thread for it. :)

  • media_lush

    OFF TOPIC BUT AT LAST HERE’S A PHOTO OF TOMMY GIRL NOT WEARING HIS LIFTS AND WE CAN SEE HOW SMALL HE REALLY IS [rest of pics and story on my bollocks site]

    • Bella Legosi

      As a member of the Tiny but Crazy tribe……..I really shouldn’t laugh………but LMFAO I even slapped my knee at this!

  • DeElizabethan

    Tony, thanks for this. Just finished watching it and have to say that you really stood out in a most elegant way.

  • Terril Park

    I met these three before they went to the US, lovely people.

    The producer and director had just left film school and won an award for a project. Now their
    career is off to a flying start. It was the directors choice of the subject matter.

    They were lucky to get someone to write the CO$ rebuttals so brilliantly at the end of
    the programme. That was the biggest laugh of all. :)

    This is the second time Channel 4 has aired a documentary showing FZ/Independent
    scientology in a good light, here is the first:-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VblMGk13Eg

  • TrishaWisha

    I watched “Scientologists at War” last night on Channel four and found it be very enlightening. I really felt sorry for Marty and his wife when the Squirrel Busters were harassing and trying to intimidate them at their own house. Why the hell do people follow this crazy religion? Dangerous people!