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Mike Rinder on “The Hole” and How He Escaped Scientology

Last March, we visited former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder at his home in Florida. The result of our visit was a series of videos that we posted at the Village Voice website in April. However, since leaving the Voice our YouTube account was shut down. Thankfully, with help from a loyal reader, we managed to retrieve those videos and have posted them to YouTube once again. So we’ve decided to republish the entire story along with the videos.

And our timing is good, because Chris Owen just published a lengthy and detailed Wikipedia entry about “The Hole,” Scientology’s concentration camp for top executives, and that’s the subject of many of these video segments. We’re glad to get this interview with Rinder back on the ‘net…

 
[Originally published April 4, 2012] For years, Mike Rinder was the Church of Scientology’s chief spokesman and executive director of the Office of Special Affairs, its intelligence wing. In 2007, his defection was among the most surprising in an exodus of high-ranking officials from the church. Since then, he’s given several interviews, but none as complete as the videotaped discussions we had with him last month in his Florida home. In this first segment, he describes the conditions in “The Hole,” Scientology’s notorious concentration camp for fallen executives at its California headquarters. In other segments, Rinder also talks about the confessions forced out of prisoners, the constant indoctrination of church members, and much, much, more…

First, some background that we picked up while getting a tour of Scientology’s spiritual home.

Rinder was born in 1955 to Ian and Barbara Rinder in Adelaide. (He has two younger siblings, Andrew and Judy.) Ian was an entrepreneur and owned a series of businesses, including a wholesale grocery distributor, an aerosol canning company, a travel agency, a restaurant — he even raised goats at one time. Barbara kept the books.

Mike went to private schools growing up. “They were Christian but non-denominational. There were a lot of private schools in Adelaide,” he says, calling it Australia’s version of Omaha or Des Moines.

In 1959 or 1960, Rinder’s parents became interested in Scientology — L. Ron Hubbard had given lectures in Melbourne around that time, and left behind some active groups there and in Adelaide. After moving to Sydney for about a year, the Rinders then made a pilgrimage to Saint Hill Manor in England in 1966 or 1967 that lasted nine months. (Hubbard had just left the manor, which remains to this day Scientology’s European headquarters.) After a second trip to Saint Hill a few years later, Rinder had twice been around the world by ship by the time he was 15 years old.

It was about then that Rinder remembers being audited for the first time. It wasn’t something the family was public about, that they were Scientologists. The Hubbard books were hidden at home, and his parents weren’t pushy about his involvement.

After finishing high school, Rinder joined the Sea Org at 18, turning down a full scholarship to the University of Adelaide. His first assignment: the “Tours Org,” which traveled the continent, arriving at individual churches to convince parishioners to sign up for more services — called “regging.” After crisscrossing Australia for several months in the Tours Org, Rinder was then sent for executive training at the center of Scientology’s universe — the yacht Apollo, with Hubbard himself.

Mike Rinder, church spokesman

Mike Rinder, church spokesman

But first, he needed to do his formal Sea Org indoctrination, known as Estates Project Force, at Saint Hill. Then, in September 1973, he went to Lisbon to meet the ship. After swabbing decks for a while, he then landed a plum assignment back on land: working PR for the ship in Funchal, Madeira, an island owned by Portugal.

By 1974, the Apollo had been kicked out of several other countries, and Portugal was just about its last safe home in Europe. But having just gone through a coup, the country was becoming suspicious of the Americans and Brits on the odd ship. Rinder and a handful of others were stationed in Funchal to hand out surveys to locals in a bid to convince them that the Apollo was harmless.

“Then the ‘rock concert’ happened,” Rinder says. In October, 1974, rumors had spread through Funchal that the Apollo, which was docked there, was working on behalf of the CIA. An uprising of locals dumped a couple of cars and motorcycles owned by the Scientologists into the water as rocks were thrown at the ship itself. While Hubbard shouted instructions from the deck, the Apollo’s crew scrambled to get the yacht out of port. Rinder himself — all of 19 years old — was trapped in the house he was staying at in town, and ultimately needed a military escort to get back to the ship. It was that incident that convinced Hubbard to leave for the US — but Rinder says the boat’s agent spotted federal agents waiting for the ship in South Carolina, so instead Hubbard sailed the Caribbean for a while. After another year, he would move operations to land, taking over the downtown area of Clearwater, Florida.

Clearwater is, to this day, the spiritual headquarters of Scientology, and we traveled there in March to spend a couple of days with Rinder, who still lives nearby even though he left the church five years ago.

Today, Rinder and another former high-ranking executive, Marty Rathbun, are leading an exodus of church members who have left official Scientology because of the way it’s being led by their former boss, David Miscavige. Both Rinder and Rathbun, as well as others who call themselves “independent Scientologists” still adhere to Hubbard’s ideas even as they reject Miscavige’s church. We asked him to help explain the difference between the two movements…

Rinder is just one of numerous former executives to go public in the last few years with stories of abuse at the hands of church leader David Miscavige. Like Debbie Cook, who testified to her experience of being held in “the Hole” — Scientology’s notorious office-prison, Rinder explains in the first video, above, some of the conditions there. But we also asked him about the mentality that keeps some executives in Scientology for years even after they’ve gone through that kind of experience. He says it’s a matter of gradual indoctrination…

Rinder says he was held as a virtual prisoner in various places — tents on a golf course, for example, as well as in “the Hole” itself — for almost two years between 2004 and 2007, being let out on occasion to make appearances at church events or to handle the BBC’s John Sweeney. But we asked him, not for the first time, if he could remember what first caused him to fall from grace in the eyes of Miscavige, and sent him from the highest of executive positions to a prisoner…

Debbie Cook testified that besides the degrading conditions of the Hole — sleeping on the floor of an ant-infested, sweltering office, eating disgusting “slop” — that the days consisted of mass confessions that could last hours. Rinder was held in the place far longer than Cook, and we asked him what those confessions were like…

Rinder mentions in that last segment that he and Marty Rathbun, another top former official, had been assigned by Miscavige for four years to handle the fallout of the 1995 death of Lisa McPherson, who perished after being held for 17 days at Scientology’s headquarters in Clearwater, the Fort Harrison Hotel. Rinder and Rathbun directed the church’s legal strategy as Scientology was indicted criminally for the death (charges were later dropped). McPherson’s death and the years of bad publicity it garnered for the church is one of Scientology’s biggest headaches in its 60-year history.

Even when he was let out of confinement from the Hole, Rinder says Miscavige could make work assignments feel almost as unpleasant as imprisonment itself. There was the way, for example, he assigned Rinder to do work on what would become The Basics, Miscavige’s 2007 re-release of L. Ron Hubbard’s most essential Scientology books, which all Scientologists were then required to purchase at up to $3,000 per set…

Another strange aspect of imprisonment at the Hole — which multiple witnesses tell us went on at least from the beginning of 2004 to the middle of 2010, if not longer — was that everyone inside were high-ranking executives, all of whom had known and worked with each other for years.

“These were your friends, people you had traveled with,” Rinder says. “But then, you get in the Hole? You can’t trust anybody.”

The forced confessions pitted friends against each other. And the conditions only made it worse. “Everyone sleeping with only about six inches on either side. Above you. Below you. Getting up in the middle of the night, you’d disturb everyone,” Rinder says, and more than once compares it to the madness of Lord of the Flies…

Like Cook, Rinder eventually got out of the Hole because, he says, Miscavige needed them elsewhere. For Cook, it was an event in Clearwater. For Rinder, it was to handle John Sweeney and the BBC while they were filming a documentary about Scientology. But even after he was out, Rinder says he continued to be bullied by Miscavige, and began thinking about “blowing” — Scientology jargon for defecting.

I asked him to describe how he finally broke away in 2007…

So, I asked Rinder, where is this all going?

“I don’t think that the demise of Miscavige and the church is going to be a direct result of people abandoning it,” he says. “I think there is sort of a snowball effect that happens with people who get influenced by Debbie Cook, or the Tampa Bay Times. Other people who know someone affected by disconnection…

“But I think the ultimate demise is going to be either when there is enough media pressure demanding that Miscavige answer up and stop sending lackeys to make excuses, or when he’s forced to testify under oath.

“The minute either of those things happens, he won’t be able to maintain the facade any longer. His facade is built primarily on him doing these events — the New Year’s event, March 13 [Hubbard’s Birthday], June 6 [Maiden Voyage], the IAS in October — where he convinces the flock that everything is hunky dory. They believe it, because he’s the one saying it. If he can’t do that, the whole house of cards will fall to pieces.

“The people in the local orgs, they see that nothing is expanding. But they assume it is everywhere else. They figure they’re doing something wrong, and so they don’t want to look anywhere else. It’s like a whole big incredibly elaborate facade that’s been constructed.

“It will just kind of fall to pieces as soon as that source of bullshit is no longer able to convince everybody that the world of Scientology is experiencing its greatest rate of expansion.

“The only thing Miscavige has is a lot of money. So, he is able to create the appearance of expansion with this buying of buildings. Because all you need for that is money.”

 
On a personal note, I wanted to thank Christie Collbran, Mike’s girlfriend, for putting up with us over two days so close to her delivery date. She and Mike are expecting a baby boy any day now. [And today Jack is doing fine!]

—————–

LINKS OF NOTE

Bloomberg’s Brendan Coffey has an excellent story this morning about Robert Duggan, a businessman who has become a billionaire in part because he’s developing a very promising new cancer drug, and who also happens to be Scientology’s biggest single donor.

Written in the dry, detached Bloomberg style, Coffey’s story hints at a messier tale of boardroom intrigue as Duggan has taken over companies and wrung profit out of them, and now finds himself an unlikely hero for cancer victims. Marty Rathbun, meanwhile, says Duggan has donated $20 million to the church (twice Nancy Cartwright’s $10 million!). Kristi Wachter also gets some nice attention for her amazing Scientology completions database, which records Duggan’s long involvement in the church.

As Scientology leader David Miscavige chases away more longtime church members with his constant demands for cash, he’s going to rely more and more on whales like Duggan. But another billionaire, Australian businessman James Packer, ditched Scientology after he’d been courted with the use of the church’s celebrities. Better hold on to Duggan, COB.

Maybe by giving him another big-ass trophy?

Robert_Duggan

—————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on January 29, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • All that I can say is “thanks” to Mike Rinder. He is responsible, more than any other single person, in making me an anti-Scientologist activist. -Bob Peterson

  • tetloj

    Scientology not too proud to take money from big pharma

    • Mary_McConnell

      LOL!

    • EnthralledObserver

      Precisely…

    • Anon Nom Nom

      Nonsensical scientologist response:
      –but but but it’s for the greatest good for the greatest number dynamics per HCO policy letter 193492!
      –some non-sequitur about psych drugs.
      –standard boilerplate about buildings, the brilliance of david miscavige, and that damned apostate “kingpin rathbone.”

  • Mary_McConnell

    Glad you got your Rinder interview videos back up.

    Bob Duggan, getting his due. Now the IAS has another excuse to go after Duggan for more money… to stop the evil SPs like Marty and Kristi.

  • Peter Robinson

    On one hand so great that defectors like Rinder and Rathburn expose abuses in scifiology, and undermine it. On the other, so difficult to see how they still cling on to the core beliefs and practices as still of some value. Are they totally immune to the indisputable established facts that LRH was a fraud in just about everything he did? Miscavige may have ratcheted up the abuses, but one can see every single one in a continuum from Hubbard to Miscavige so obviosuly.

    I appreciate it must be difficult to completely throw away many years of their lives as entirely wasted, but now they are out, and free to become aware of the total fraud perpetuated by Hubbard, do they just ignore all that evidence?

    • Poison Ivy

      Puzzles me as well. I sort of see that Marty’s trying to become Scientology’s Martin Luther, so to speak. But Rinder is just so insightful…can his insight really stop at Hubbard’s door?

      • Rinder may still wake up. It takes years to come to terms with the likelihood that what you’ve put your faith in is wrong.

    • villagedianne

      I see nothing wrong with Indies practicing Scientology as long as they don’t hurt or exploit people. Hubbard may have been a fraud, according to his son he borrowed or stole most of the COS processes. I think Hubbard had a good sense of what to steal, so if it works for people and they don’t hurt anybody then fine. Of course they will have to separate out the bad stuff and do some cherry-picking.

      • Auditing is a main component of the mind control technique, so practicing it (or selling it) even outside the Cult could arguably be in the “harming others” category.

        • villagedianne

          If auditing is mis-used it could be a mind control technique. But I could say the same about many other practices, including psychotherapy. There is hardly any human endeavor that doesn’t have both a good and a bad potential.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            Psychotherapy is usually done by a trained, licensed professional and under the guidelines of the APA. In Co$, auditing can be done by anyone from a hormonal teenager inexperienced with life to a whackadoodle kool-aid-drinker bordering Type III who needs to get stats up.

          • I agree with PreferToBeAnon2 below. Psychotherapies are performed by professionals that are trained, licensed, insured, and have levels of accountability that auditing lacks. Therapies used are peer reviewed, studied, tested, and typically put through double blind studies for safety and effectiveness reviews. Can you say the same about Scientology’s auditing?

            I didn’t think so.

    • FistOfXenu

      I know I posted this before, on Tony’s VV pages, but maybe somebody’ll benefit from seeing it again:
      http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

      That list is actually 10 things now, and it fits this discussion.

      1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
      why is (______) going on?
      [ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

      2) The guys at the top must be crazy

      3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
      [ or something similar ]

      4) Hubbard went crazy at the end …..

      5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966

      6) Hubbard was mad from the start.

      7) This whole thing is a complete fraud

      8) my god, its a criminal organization… with criminal convictions
      all over the world… and it was only about money

      9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT’s THERE!

      10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it

      A LOT of people get stuck before they get to 10. If you figure the list isn’t a simple straight line, some people like Rinder and Rathbun and those guys skip right over 4-7. I’ll leave it to the head shrinkers to explain it but I think they’ve got too much to lose to admit that all that “knowledge” they got is just a steaming pile. If I was an untrusting kind of guy I’d wonder if he’s hoping $cientology will fall into his lap once DM runs off. But that can’t be it.

      If there’s any good reason to see a so-called expert after leaving $cientology it’s to have somebody around to keep you honest and make sure you get all the way through from 1-10 without skipping over that sacred cow called Hubbard. And ex-members can do that for each other with a little effort.

  • John P.

    Focusing on the article about Robert Duggan, when you consider his net worth is $1 billion or more, giving only $20 million to the cult shows remarkable restraint. That’s only about 2% of his net worth. One would presume that David Miscavige pays at least as much attention to Pharmacyclics stock price as Dugan does. And one would also wonder just how much heavy “regging” Duggan undergoes, since Miscavige is undoubtedly not subtle in wanting the other 98% of Duggan’s money. Interesting that Duggan is 68 years old — not one foot in the grave by any stretch of the imagination, but it is potentially time for him to think about retirement, with his Pharmacyclics deal being a perfect capstone to his career.

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens next — does Duggan give a sizable chunk of his estate to the cult or does he engage in more traditional estate planning, giving it to kids, a charitable foundation, etc? Duggan could very well be the only “whale” with improving financial circumstances, and Miscavige may be counting excessively on an additional chunk of money to bolster reserves, to bail the cult out from what could well be deteriorating financial condition. But tying the future of the cult to one large donor seems extremely unwise.

    Does anyone who was “in” have firsthand knowledge of Duggan’s level of belief? Is he someone who merely thinks that the courses helped him a lot in his career, or is he a hardcore “true believer” like Tom Cruise or the Feshbach brothers?

    • Observer
      • Poison Ivy

        Who knows what turns guys like these on? It’s usually just plain Power. Power, power power, more more more. Never enough money; never enough power. Scientology promises super powers and eternal life…somehow, he must have bought into the cosmology.

        • BosonStark

          I was thinking about this too. I figure it is mostly the eternal life thing. No matter how wealthy you are, you are going to get old, and die, just like all the poor suckers. Ain’t it a beautiful and horrifying mystery?

          Not for clams — they’re coming back for trillions of years, and hopefully picking up with their IAS status right where they left off.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Also, if you believe you are some kind of big being making huge strides to better mankind with the swipe of a credit card, it helps to soothe the searing, mostly unconscious guilt. Guilt that is inevitable in this unfair world, when one is privileged beyond belief, and knowing it is on the backs of many who are disenfranchised or exploited. Scientology has made that into a religion.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              You nailed it, CV. This and the eternal youth bit. Most of the human ATM machines are in their late 50’s to early 70’s. It’s also another reason why the Super Power Fun Rides will never open. Even with Miscavige’s well funded legal sharks, just the Running around the Pole program, which would have to be done Before the rides, would kill off half of them. The fun scientology rides will finish the rest off, if they ever are made, like the Gyro machine.

              I’ve seen from videos or pictures that the IAS Fundraising Medieval guy on a white horse has replaced pictures and posters and banners around the AO’s (Advanced Orgs, think OT levels) and even in the hallways, along with IAS and Super Power Patrons (atm whales) instead of pictures of scientology auditors (unlicensed talk therapists).

              Now if you walked down the halls of an organization and only saw pictures of those who gave Millions of $, would you think you were in a) a corporation b) a church or c) the IRS?

            • coonellie

              “…like the Gyro machine.” Now I know I’m tired! I read that and thought, “Oh, yes, eating too many gyro’s could probably cause a heart attack.” Duh…you meant those spinning things that work like a spoonful of ipecac syrup 😉

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hey,…A new Scientology business venture in Clearwater!
              They could turn downtown in to a Scientology Theme Park. Turn the oiliness table into a slip and slide. The Gyroscope thingy…well that just kinda looks fun.
              Flag is supposed to have 42 bathrooms, so that is a good start.
              They could serve frozen beans and rice on a stick.

              The Sea Org uniforms will work OK for the staff, but they need some funny yet referencial “hats” so we know what jobs they do.

              Free personality tests for everybody.
              E-metered parking.

      • I started browsing around on that board and came up with this eerie story. she hasn’t finished it yet, but was evidently involved in operation snow white, was drugged by lrh “hisself” and beaten by david miscavige as part of a black $cn. process hubbard ordered to be run on her. it all sounds entirely unbelievable but she’s got photos and documentation. it’s giving me the chills, reads very much like nancy many’s story. my…god.

        every day i count my blessings that i got off as easy as i did.

        http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=173516

        • Observer

          Scientology really is always worse than you think.

        • Chocolate Velvet

          What a heartbreaking story. I had to stop after the first page, cause it made me cry. The rapes, and the resignation she felt to just endure it. Yikes. I’ve been seeing to much of this horror show lately.

          It reminds me of the Aum cult and their practices. I am reading R J Lifton’s book on the group currently. I just finished a section on how they used drugs on their members. A process called the “narco”, to deal with people who complained or were suspected of spying. Then, a doctor in the cult developed the “new narco” using electroshock combined with drugs to erase memory and enforce obedience. They called them “s-checks”, BTW, “s” for “spy”.

          It is horrifying, and it still amazes me, the parallels between such groups. This is the stuff that I think makes a group worth watching — call it a cult, or whatever. When insane shit like that goes on, it should be scrutinized and criticized loudly.

          • Poison Ivy

            In human trafficking, narcotics are an essential element. Keeping the girls (or boys) drug-dependent takes away both their will and mental ability to escape.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          That was a pretty incredible thread to read.
          Wild seeing that unpublished picture of Diana Hubbard.

          • Now, I am lurking the thread waiting for her to come back after her birthday. Yeah, $cn is not only worse than you think, in my case worse than I could ever imagine. I felt evil flows from certain people, but I would just put it down to their auditing or their dedicated attempts to handle their “case.”
            When I first arrived in L.A. many people warned me about that apt. complex next to the Manor. I can see why now, this isn’t the first nightmare that came out of that building.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I will be there with you. That was an awesome thread.

        • Ohmy. That story is incredible, and to think that Wright, et al missed a golden opportunity to interview her (her post says that she only recently decided to speak out so I’m guessing that she wasn’t a source for any recent book).

          I really hope she decides to tell her story to the FBI. They may no longer be interested in her story, but I do hope she tries to talk to them.

    • Hazel

      He is a believer, altho his initial pull to Scientology was thru learning Data Series policies that helped him in business.
      He is also a big donator to the Super Power building. Charmaine Roger, the same gal mentioned in Luis Garcia’s lawsuit, spent many a day on their doorstep extracting money from them for the “project”.

      • grundoon

        Did Charmaine collect $2M in commissions on Duggan’s $20M donation?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Call me crazy,….but why do I think that there is a commission cap on the whales?
          Like…uh…here is the base model Lexus…now STFU.

    • villagedianne

      The very wealthy followers probably get a whole different kind of regging, like heavy ego-stroking and love bombing. Told they are saving the world, stuff like that.

      • Vance Woodward was taken to a special room on Hollywood Blvd. He thought their was fresh fruit because the last guy didn’t eat it, but no, it was for him.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Nightly, in my secret dreams that envelop me as I lay in bed, I feel all spinny at the thought of the IRS revoking the non-profit status. I wonder how much he would donate if he couldn’t write it off…

      • Poison Ivy

        Prefer – exactly. Donations are all well and good…as long as they lower the tax bill.

  • One can never have too many big ass trophies……though for my millions, I prefer to have shiny accessories and shoes to show for it but what do I know!?

    I appreciate Rinders brutal honesty and candor in the way he speaks, I loved this story then and I do now.

  • jensting

    Yay! for Chris Owen. I didn’t know that the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology openly admits to the “musical chairs” episode (Owen quotes Wright who quotes the Co$). Yikes. That video must be known to be out there somewhere – can’t wait 🙂

    • tetloj

      Wright has Tommy Davis confirming it took place (as an exercise demonstrating what can happen if the organisation isn’t manned properly) but denies the level of urgency and violence, and threats to relocate people

    • Poison Ivy

      Was it videotaped?

      • jensting

        You bet! From Marc Headley’s “Blown for Good”

        “There was a lot of fumbling around to get the chairs into a giant circle. Dave had the Cine Sec Gold (Fed Tisi) bring up a video camera so the whole thing could be videoed. This was going to be a major production”

        On the one hand, I don’t really want to see what happened. On the other hand, David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige really, REALLY, does not want the media to get their hands on that…

        • Poison Ivy

          I wonder if all that stuff is archived. Wish Marc had spirited some of it out with him, but of course then CO$ could’ve had a case against him. Someone on the inside needs to transfer it all to digital and beam it out on the interwebs. I’m also hoping Laurisse & the hapless few still in Davy’s good graces are saving those taped and transcribed rants of his. Now THOSE I really want to hear.

          • Poison Ivy

            I’m sure it will be “shredded” by Davy if he feels the Base is threatened.

          • John P.

            Marty Rathbun posted a few of these transcribed memos last year. They make absolutely no sense whatsoever. There is no evidence of any clear, coherent thought process going on in his mind when he spews these random brain farts. If anybody sent memos like that in the corporate world, recipients would probably be more concerned that the author is having a stroke than they would think about firing him. They’re that incoherent.

            • BosonStark

              If it weren’t for the fact that Miscavige doesn’t hit women executives — aside from the one he tackled once — one might think he has some kind of uncontrollable episodic mental disorder — described in Wright’s book as coincident with his asthma attacks, when he was a kid — that makes him attack underlings for little or no reason. Maybe his “survival” instinct kicks in, that he is able to restrain himself from hitting women. According to Wright’s book, when he was a kid, it was almost without awareness that he went into these rages and physically attacked people. Perhaps now it is triggered by anger, or his feeling of superiority that must never be questioned.

              Now perhaps, when Miscavige feels anger, he has an uncontrollable urge to act out and becomes quite irrational in his thought process as well — I mean much more than the rest of us. For example, Rinder and Davis’s mission against Sweeney, with a team of PIs and camera people, was to prevent the Panorama show from ever being aired. Anything short of that was considered “treasonous.” So, he has these delusional and unrealistic expectations of his underlings. Even if he puts most of his underlings in the Hole, he can still feel buoyant from individuals who give $20M to the cause. And if he needs an underling for something, just bring him out of the Hole, like he did with Rinder.

              There are certain physical illnesses and conditions that can amplify emotional responses like anger — endocrine, brain tumor, chemical/transmission brain problems.
              ————–
              On a different topic, I think both Sweeney and Wright (Tony too of course) are onto something that is key in facilitating the swift collapse of CoS. That is, making celebrities confront the questions of abuse, including Miscavige’s violence, as well as the history of their organization and Hubbard’s real biography. Wright did that with a combination of his stature and integrity as a writer, and his book, and I think it is going to work. Sweeney tried to do it with his boldness and conviction, but he realized that people like JT are a lot further gone than even RInder or Davis — people he could at least say things to.

              CoS grew by making celebrities important, and it can be brought down that way. When questioning celebrities now, about Wright’s book, they should be asked:

              Do you know that David Miscavige loses his temper and beats his underlings?
              If they say, “That can’t be true — he is always nice to me and is the most…”
              Would it matter to you if it were true, that David Miscavige beats his underlings?

              The lag Sweeney pointed out well, is that Scilebrities do not understand the Internet as a transformational technology for delivering information at all. Many still don’t use it, or they think of it as a toy, entertainment or a medium to promote themselves only. Meanwhile, the rest of the public is growing increasingly aware of the importance and utility of the Internet, for examining court documents, finding facts, videos, and stories.

              I think that’s one of the gaps that CoS is going to fall into — their Scilebrities’ ignorance of the Internet while some whales will not be.

              I wonder how many of the whales have handlers assigned?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I wonder how much of the midget’s anger is from steroids. Wright hinted at this regarding his “ripped” body and, of course, we all know he has asthma.

            • Observer

              I have to use a steroid inhaler during our hot, humid summers. The steroids used in inhalers are corticosteroids, not anabolic steroids. The corticos can make you cranky, but they don’t cause ‘roid rage like the anabolics. I think the rage is all Davey, since he has a lifelong history of violent outbursts.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Didn’t write talk about Davy having an unusually ‘ripped body” as a kid? Also, I think Sinar spoke about him looking at body builders and saying he wanted that too… Just a thought.

            • Observer

              Anything is possible with a narcissist like DM …

            • Poison Ivy

              If Davy was on prednisone as a kid it could have warped him…my Dad was on it for 10 years for asthma (yeah, they did that in the 70’s – criminal!) and he was rageful then….

            • Observer

              I’ve spent a fair bit of time on prednisone over the years, and it never did that to me–but that doesn’t mean anything since people react to things so differently.

              I’m still not convinced that DM’s violence is caused by external means. I think he was born with the tendencies, since they manifested so early, and being so heavily inculcated with the “tech” so young just poured fuel on the fire. He may have had a chance at a normal life if he hadn’t been dragged into the “church”.

            • Yeah, I was on steroids for a while a couple years ago for my back, and I was never physically violent because of them. I got angry and showed my anger a lot more easily even though I was in a good mood most of the time. But I didn’t become physically violent toward living things, because that is not how I express anger. I think if Miscavige is on steroids (I dunno if there’s proof of that), it might explain his anger, but it would not explain how he chooses to express that anger. That’s all on him.

            • Midwest Mom

              I fear that Shelly knows his physically abusive temper all too well.

            • I think one of the primary questions that should be asked of the CelibiSci every time someone has the opportunity is “When was the last time you saw Shelley Miscaviage and do you know what happened to her?”

              She isn’t some anonymous little Sea Orger that they’ve never heard of, she’s not a “blown” apostate. She’s their leader’s wife, don’t they wonder why she stopped coming to functions?

            • Boson, you pose a great question. Wright also told of when Miscavige became strangely forgetful and was repeatedly asking “where did we put the gold ingots” to his now missing wife. But strangely, Miscavige is able to control his actions enough to not hit women (although he directs others to do so). I don’t think his fits of rage are in moments of psychosis or delusions because he doesn’t attack women, which shows some ability to control his actions.

              I suspect that he’s a malignant narcissist with paranoid delusions (he may possibly fall within the paranoid personality disorder spectrum). There is most definitely clinical pathology present with this guy. Scientology seems to attract (maybe it also creates but it definitely nurtures) mental illness in many adherents.

            • Poison Ivy

              “I suspect that he’s a malignant narcissist with paranoid delusions (he may possibly fall within the paranoid personality disorder spectrum). There is most definitely clinical pathology present with this guy.” HELL YEAH, Deckard! He’s mad and dangerously mad, like some sort of bloodthirsty medieval king. And what better way to stay mad than to spend your whole life believing in and having other indulge the delusion that, basically, YOU should be running the world because only YOU can save it?

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              Ironic that most of those celebrities would never defend a wife beater, but they ignore Miscavige’s violence. The celebrities need to wake up, battery and abuse is not acceptable no matter who is the recipient. The question needs to be asked, “are you condoning the violence, is that why you are silent?”

            • Poison Ivy

              Celebrities are getting pretty internet savvy – most have to be. However they (the big ones) often have “people” who handle that for them. And I’d wager most are probably avoiding the fact-finding altogether. Remember in Wright’s book when Terry Jastrow talks about not reading the internet “entheta” because “it would be like asking a Jew to read Mein Kampf”? Even when Haggis pointed out to these people that these abuses were indeed taking place and he had proof, they didn’t want to read it.

              Re: Miscavige – traumatic brain injuries (and brain dengenerative diseases) can make people act out in bursts of rage like Miscavige. I wonder, maybe he was oxygen-deprived for a little too long as a kid during one of his asthma attacks? I always thought it was interesting that so many people claimed Hubbard changed permanently and very much went downhill after his motorcycle accident. Besides all the other physical problems that it caused, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a TBI as well. Add that to an already unbalanced mental state and you have dynamite.

              However with both Miscavige and Hubbard, I would not downplay the simple effect of good old fashioned narcissistic rage. It’s the equivalent of a baby’s temper tantrum when it first is told “no.” Whenever a narcissist’s personal facade of power or perfection is threatened, that rage can emerge and it can be pretty terrible. (That’s partly why I worry so much about Shelley…)

            • There are theories that Howard Hughes’ emotional disorders were exacerbated by tertiary, neurosyphilis. He had OCD symptoms as a child, but he had repeated brain trauma due to multiple airplane accidents and possibly untreated syphilis. I’ve always wondered if LRH’s “ulcers” were actually symptoms of untreated syphilis, which led to tertiary brain disease.

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              Sweeney also publishes Miscavige’s deranged emails that say something along the lines of “YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK COCK ON HOLLYWOOD BLVD, YOU SUCK YOU SP.”

              Still on your side (formerly Anononyourside)

            • Poison Ivy

              I have Sweeney on the ol’ Ipad Kindle app but am still a couple pages from the end of Wright. Too many Sci books, too little time…

            • Poison Ivy

              Do you have linkies! I really am dying to read them.

            • John P.

              Here’s one. He posted one or two others within a week or so of this one. Link: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/david-miscavige-on-the-internet-and-scientology/. Towards the bottom of the comments, I posted a long discussion on how real CEO’s try to make it easy for people to understand what they want done.

            • Poison Ivy

              He’s like a 10 year old boy with aggression issues “playing” CEO with a playground of younger, more naive kids. Except it’s all too real and he’s got billions.

            • Poison Ivy

              Thanks for the link, John P. Wow. Absolutely unintelligible. I loved your comment, too:

              “I have been in meetings with famous, accomplished CEOs and have usually been struck by how good they are at putting together a complex argument easily understood by their audience.”

              So true. And oddly enough the CEO’s I’ve heard speak don’t talk jargon like their underlings…they talk for general understanding. At least in public presentations.

          • jensting

            all of those transcripts are ecclesiastical! And trade secrets…

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Wouldn’t the defense then demand that the video be played in court? (In order to have the jury see what intellectual property is an issue.) I would love to see that!

            Still on your side (formerly Anononyourside)

  • Observer

    That trophy is fully half of Miscavige’s height. I’d pay to see him try to wrangle that thing.

    • stillgrace

      The trophy looks good on the podium, DM should let him keep that, too.

      • Observer

        They oughtta let him keep the whole stage, as much as he’s contributed.

        • Poison Ivy

          Scientology is the perfect religion for a guy like that. It promises eternal life, superpowers, control over all other human beings. The power-hungry narcissist’s dream religion.

          • Midwest Mom

            On a serious note: Why does his wife have that “Star Trek” meets “Heidi” and “Valley of the Dolls” wiglet on the top of her head? Out. of. Style. (Waaay out).

            • Poison Ivy

              Claws in, girl!

            • Poison Ivy

              (The dress ain’t so great for a Billionaire’s wife, either.)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Looks like she was shooting for that Star Trek wimmen look, but missed.

              http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/star-trek-women/images/7864043/title/droxine-cloud-minders-photo

            • Poison Ivy

              Star Trek women were always shot through a light fog filter lens. I always wished I could walk around with a soft lens in front of me, like a Star Trek woman.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Check!

            • Sherbet

              I thought the same thing — prom 1967 flashback.

            • It’s a common style in, yep, Florida. Extreme bleached-blondeness and all. My neurosurgeon, obviously a brilliant (and quite well-off) woman, has something like it. Here, the richer you are, the worst taste you have. So possibly she’s aping the style prevalent in her spiritual mecca.

            • Midwest Mom

              In the words of Nancy Kerrigan, after being whacked in the knees by Tonya Harding’s toadies, “Whhhyyy……..? Whhhyyyy……..? Whhhyyy……..?”

            • Poison Ivy

              True, Lliira…I spent a lot of time in Palm Beach for a documentary, mixing with that crowd. It was like living among a strange tribe along the Amazon….but among far less pleasant people. It seemed that extremely fake hair, giant bejeweled brooches so heavy they could only sit on shoulders, and extremely obvious plastic surgery (aka really really tightly pulled faces and eyes, hugely inflated lips and school-girl perky breasts on women over 60) were all status symbols. Even for the super rich.

    • FistOfXenu

      I bet DM could be folded up and stuffed inside. I’d like the chance to test my theory.

      • Observer

        Thank you for that extremely pleasing mental image! Hahaha!

  • Sherbet

    For some reason, Mike Rinder’s spokesman photo reminds me of this.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119528/

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Ah, you really know how to start my morning!

      • Sherbet

        And, if memory serves, the tag line to the movie was “Would I lie to you?” That’s the old Rinder, though. I have a lot of respect for him, even if he is an indy.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Ditto.
          But he was the master liar in his day.
          He was much better than Tommy Davis.
          Tommy was weak ass.

          • Sherbet

            Plus Rinder had that cool accent that inspired confidence. TD was a whiner with an attitude.

            • stillgrace

              Tommy just spent too much time around Miscavige. The crazy rubbed off. Too bad.
              Don’t know if it can be fixed.

            • Poison Ivy

              Yeah, Tommy was clearly modeling his “confront” on Miscavige. Reminds me of when I started in Hollywood, the way everyone in power acted – I now call it “the cocaine school of producing.” Most of those guys burned out quick.

            • stillgrace

              Much of what I have read lately convinces me that it is extremely dangerous to one’s mental health to be around Miscavige, especially if you are deluded enough to think he’s a “big being”. An insider quipped recently that Cruise was channelling Miscavige when he went psycho on Matt Lauer and Brooke Shields.

            • Sherbet

              I don’t think I’ve ever forgiven Brook Shields for attending TC’s last wedding in Italy. Not only did he patronize women everywhere about Shield’s chosen post-partum treatment, he also threw in this snark: From a contemporary issue of “People” —

              “I care about Brooke Shields because I think she is an incredibly talented women, (but) look at where has her career gone,” he tells Access Hollywood in an interview. As for her career, Cruise says: “Look, is she happy? Is she really happy?”

              The tacit message from the Expert, TC: Using Paxil after childbirth has ruined Shield’s career. Gimme a break.

            • Observer

              Cruise is such such a pompous, arrogant, ignorant ass. I can’t stand the sight of him.

            • Sherbet

              Ditto here.

            • AstroLadyBoy

              She really stuck it to him in her NY Times op-ed though.
              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/01/opinion/01shields.html?_r=0

            • I loved this article by Shields; she really socked it to Cruise. I think he apologized to her, and maybe I heard that in the Winfrey interview of Cruise (at his Telluride home). That interview was very strange because of Katie’s weird “I love you” staged interjections and Tom Cruise’s face appeared to have the remnants of a contusion covered in make-up. It’s too bad that we’ll probably never know what really happened with that interview, or with Cruise’s apology to Shields.

            • AstroLadyBoy

              Oh I never knew bout that interview. Is it on the net?

            • There is a transcript with pictures on Oprah’s website: http://www.oprah.com/world/Exclusive-from-His-Telluride-Home-The-Tom-Cruise-Interview_1/1

              Here’s the short video teaser: http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Exclusive-from-His-Telluride-Home-The-Tom-Cruise-Interview

              YouTube mirror (Part 1): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_uiE7SXgs

              This interview is so nauseating. The YouTube mirror is not good quality but you can see Tom’s puffy face in the Oprah website video teaser.

            • Captain Howdy

              In the youtube video Cruise is so “sleight’ he can practically walk into Suri’s playhouse.

            • stillgrace

              I think Cruise is lost, just lost. Condescending creep.

            • Poison Ivy

              See, this is how shallowly TC values people and life. Brooke Shields was working long before TC even thought of acting. She tried to live a normal life and went to college; she married, had kids…and she still works when she can. She appears to have a balanced life and relationships that give her deep meaning and satisfaction. Tom Cruise asking “Is she really happy” is telling – I think he’s asking it about himself. His career is still on the A-list, yeah, but his personal relationships are as shallow as a puddle. Also, Brooke Shields is a woman of a certain age. Practically, given the awful realities of the business, she’s done great for herself, since unless you have tremendous talent, drive, or plastic surgeons, you’re pretty much considered dead in the movie business as a woman over 35 (playing leads, that is)….in the TV biz, over 45. It’s a rare older woman (Kyra Sedgewick! Juliana Marguilies! Laura Dern! Betty White! You’re my heroes!) who can carry a leading role. You’ve got to go character, which is very difficult for beautiful women to get away with. So – considering Brooke is still modeling, still gets huge endorsements, and still works, albeit in lower-level projects – she is doing great. Plus, Tom, I’ll bet she’s a hell of a lot happier than you.

            • Observer

              Yeah, Tom doesn’t seem happy to me–more like a manic fanatic.

            • Midwest Mom

              Can’t you picture him at the Dry Cleaners yelling, “NO MORE WIRE HANGERS, EVER AGAIN!”?

            • Poison Ivy

              I am dead certain COB doesn’t allow wire hangers!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That was one of the greatest movies of all time!

            • N. Graham

              Along with Battlefield Earth and Look Who’s Talking!

            • Movie reference please?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              It evokes images of a Joan Crawford tirade

            • gotcha!

            • PreferToBeAnon2
          • Poison Ivy

            But did he really believe he was lying? Remember the “Greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” principal. Like all of them, at the time I’m sure he felt he was doing his spiritual duty.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh I am sure he spun it to benefit his belief system….but Rinder is no dummy…He still knew what was coming out of his mouth was not the truth.

              Lying may be encouraged and rewarded when you are a Scientologist.
              But it doesn’t make you any less a liar.

              I also do think he is being honest now.

  • Wanna give us more detail behind your YouTube channel being shut down? (that happened to a lot of Anons way back ‘in the day’ when the Cult claimed copyright infringement, getting many channels shut down)

    • TonyOrtega

      Nothing nefarious. It’s just related to changing e-mail addresses.

      • I Got it, thanks. You never know with YouTube channel shut downs in relation to Scientology.

        I’m glad that you got someone to help you recapture the videos.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I like Mike Rinder.. I’m glad he’s left the dark side and is doing what he can to stop co$ abuses.. I can understand how, growing up in scientology, he became inured to the evils of co$ and allowed himself to participate in them.. I love that he’s trying to make up for that now.. I’m sorry that he’s lost touch with his family and I’m happy that he has found someone to share his new life..

    But I still really miss Bob Minton..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFb1rYzF7Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    • Poison Ivy

      I get the sense from his posts on Marty’s blog that Mike isn’t one of the indies who peppers his everyday language with Sci-speak…which makes me hopeful that he’s sane enough not to entirely adhere to the whole mad Hubbard cosmology. Tony may know whether or not Rinder has done some reading on Hubbard’s real back story? He just seems way too intelligent and thoughtful to be an unquestioning acolyte to the doctrine and the “tech”.

      • Midwest Mom

        What does Rinder do for a living, now?

        • Poison Ivy

          Don’t know. Just tried to leave you a private message and it went to the top of the comments board, so I took it off. Are you on the Rodeo site?

          • Midwest Mom

            P.I. I left a message below! (It’s a snow day today. Aye Caramba!)

        • BosonStark

          The last we know, he was working as a sales rep for a wealthy ex-clam who developed a machine to sterilize drinking water for hospitals. The cult has probably launched some kind of bizarre campaign to disparage that device, but I don’t know for sure.

          Before that, he sold Toyotas.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Keep in mind though, that Mike Rinder never did pepper his language with Sci-speak. He was the PR dude. He consciously and deliberately avoided using Sci-speak because it was beneficial to do so for himself and the facade he maintained for the Church.
        I don’t think for Rinder, that his language is much of a gauge on his overall devotion to the tech and/or Hubbard.

    • Sherbet

      I know Bob Minton was brought down by financial issues — not that I think he did anything illegal, but he was caught in some sort of hidden-money lie. In all honesty, I’ve forgotten the story but will refresh my memory, because it’s important to know the truth. It was a sad end to Minton’s campaign. Having seen him in countless videos reacting with grace and calm while being insulted and bullied on all sides, I believe he was a kind man with a generous heart, and I wish he had achieved something concrete before he passed away.

  • Midwest Mom

    I find it interesting that Duggan is CEO and Chairman of the Board of Directors of Pharmacyclics “Big Pharma”(cyclics), a company which is developing small molecule drugs for the treatment of cancer and immune mediated diseases.

    Didn’t Hubbard say that cancer and diseases were all in the mind, especially leukemia and other cancers of the blood? Didn’t he say that smoking “cured” cancer? Doesn’t this further prove to the believers of Scientology (which we already knew) that Hubbard was wrong about auditing and super power abilities, supposedly gained through Scientology, as the only way to be free from illnesses, cancer and disease? Hubbard claimed that Dianetics was more important than Chemistry, Engineering and Physics.

    Isn’t Robert Duggan providing more proof that L. Ron Hubbard was a liar and a fraud?

    • sugarplumfairy

      Duggan’s probably in it for the super powers..

      • Midwest Mom

        I want to see him to shovel the three feet of snow off of my deck, with his mind.

        • Observer

          I’m sorry, but OT superpowers are only good for finding parking places or performing unverifiable acts of remote healing or viewing (and the latter must be done in full daylight so that the full spectrum of patio furniture coloration is perceptible).

          Also, it is well- known that OT super powers only work when A) there are no witnesses, or B) when the only others present are themselves OTs.

          • FistOfXenu

            I’m calling ‘bullshit’ on B). I don’t think they work in front of other OTs either.

            • Observer

              Nope, but I saw someone give the nonsensical defense that, just as accountants perform better with other accountants (wtf?), OTs perform better with only other OTs around, and that’s what i was thinking about with B. I keep forgetting all you degraded wogs can’t read my mind. 😀

            • Midwest Mom

              I’d like to challenge turtlez to a Soul train style dance off – we shall see who has the supah powahs on the dance floor.

        • Poison Ivy

          When he’s done there, he can do our driveway…

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I’m gonna guess that Miscavige is quite willing for his whales to make Hubbard wrong for the right price. The buzz about 6 months ago was that Duggan had forked over a cool $30 Million this time, but I can’t confirm that. What I Do know is that there was a buzz about Duggan and a new donation, so Miscavige was busy on shakedowns. Just another sign of a company on the way towards dissolution imo which, when you think about it, sounds a lot like disillusion.

      That picture Karen posted of her son when he was young on the beach with Bob Duggan is heartbreaking. How could Duggan Still be feeding the very psychosis that destroyed her son’s life, or has killed off so many, perhaps in the thousands, of people dying horrible, painful cancerous deaths due to quack scientology doctors, chiropractors, not seeing oncologists ever or until Stage 4, 24/7 internal and external mental and physical stress, long term. All these scientology customers on OT 7, locking themselves up in little rooms, conversing and commanding invisible ghosts who they believe they are infested with and the cause of All their problems, including physical, and worrying how they will pay their debts and bills, including medical, died so Miscavige could live large like Tom Cruise and Bob Duggan.

      Bob Duggan has been around forever. He has had to have friends, thousands of them, by now that have suffered and or died terribly, alone, broke and broken and many of them riddled with cancer. And he must also have had thousands more that were declared, or just disappeared.

      Larry Wright said in his book, “Going Clear”, that celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta have a responsibility for what they are endorsing. I would add that the scientology Patrons, or ATM Whales, have the same burden.

    • Oh, MidwestMom…..when Hubbard said that smoking “cured” cancer, it was just an ALLEGORY.

      (I hope my sarcasm came through on that one)

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Like a missile!

    • MidwestMom, I just sent you an email….

      • Midwest Mom

        Really? Cool!

  • BosonStark

    Having just read Sweeney’s book, I OD’d on RInder and Tommy “Xenu” Davis — both “treasonous” to the COB — but I’m not too “spinny” to comment on the whale — I thought Dianutty was the cure for cancer?

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I liked Kima Douglas’ description of the Great Madeira Concert Incident much better. I mean, how can you top a wiggling penis, 2 cows and a goat, and a bunch of nuts? Scientology … it’s crazier than you think:

    “ROCK FESTIVAL [in Funchal, Madeira, 7 Oct 1974]. I got smashed in the jaw
    and broke my jaw. I was with him at the time. He was worried. They threw
    rocks, then cast off the ropes in a small bay with lots of pleasure yachts. We
    were adrift and we couldn’t get the engines started immediately. There were
    messages to get the engine started. Captain Bill was trying to get people away
    from the sides, Mary Sue was in town with some of the crew. One guy had his
    head opened, 10-12 hit in various places. One guy on the quay took out his
    penis and wiggled it. Somebody threw a bunch of nuts and bolts and gave him a
    direct hit.

    The Commodore’s first message was shout back what they are shouting at us –
    “Get out CIA”. Then a message to get everyone away from the side. I pulled a
    messenger in yelling her head off and the rock meant for her hit me – I heard
    the bone go. I ran down to the medical office and got myself bandaged. I put
    butterfly clips on [Fred] Hare’s father’s head and bandaids. Finally we got
    the engine started and we got out the bay area and stayed there to wait for
    the crew and supplies.

    Then we had a storm. We had a raft we used to bring supplies ashore. As the
    raft went up they’d throw in supplies – we lost two cows and a pig. Throwing
    boxes of eggs in, up and down. She had gone out with the raft alongside.”

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/kima.htm

  • Man I’ll bet the regges are drooling all over themselves to start hounding this guy and his family unmercifully 24/7 for money now. The IAS is likely creating a whole slew of new expensive and flamboyantly named statuses to attain.

  • Ze Moo

    “But I think the ultimate demise is going to be either when there is
    enough media pressure demanding that Miscavige answer up and stop
    sending lackeys to make excuses, or when he’s forced to testify under
    oath.”

    Nah, Miscavige will give up and run away when there is no money left in the ‘official’ coffers or he has been jailed. While Davey may not like testifying, he’ll do so if he isn’t the one implicated. The fifth amendment can protect him for a while. Probably just enough time to leave the country with his suitcases of cash. There is nothing presently going on or anything on the near horizon to make Davey think its time to run. The FBI dropped their investigation, there is nothing else going on that will ruffle the evil dwarfs hair.

    The lack of new meat is only a concern to the idle mOrges and their staff. They’ll hang around as long as the rice and beans hold out, though I bet their morale has fallen to less then 1 on the tone scale The central organization of CO$ doesn’t have to have people to deliver services anymore. They are now a donation based cult. As long as the donations flow, the scam will continue. How long can corporate CO$ subsidize the mOrges? When they start to fail, you’ll know the end is near.

    • jensting

      quite right, nothing going on which should cause David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige to have to worry. Nope.

    • If there’s no money coming in how is he going to finance his lifestyle? He’s not old enough to collect Social Security and he’s probably not eligible since he probably hasn’t been required to pay into it.

      The lack of new meat is a concern to him. It’s the source of his income that supports his luxurious lifestyle.

      • Ze Moo

        The dwarfenfürhers official job is head of Author Services, the bank account that collects Lrons royalties for his fiction and non-fiction writings. That corporate entity was Lrons money laundering vehicle. Davey has taken his cut from there since 81 or 86.

        While Davey wants to be ‘straight up and vertical’, he has the megalomaniac persona, he doesn’t seem to work for the same business plan Lron created. The new meat spends their money at the local mOrgs for their introductory services. Corporate CO$ gets 10% (or more) of that, but most of the money pays for the mOrgs light and heat and labor bills. If the local mOrgs can’t bring in enough new meat, they ‘brought it on themselves’. My only question is, how is Davey going to collect from his cash stash? The IRS will be taking a good look at his retirement fund.

        I think the ‘whales’ are funding Davey’s current lifestyle. It shouldn’t be too hard to suck some Lron royalty bucks from the African library scheme.

        • But where does that money come from? I can’t imagine that there is much demand for any of Hubbard’s writings outside of Scientology.

          The difficulty DM faces is that the funding sources are going to run dry and I doubt that a nest-egg exists that could sustain DM’s lifestyle for decades (he has a projected lifespan of 75 years which would require the ability to fund about 20+ years).

          • Ze Moo

            I think most of the money Davey gets his hands on is internally raised. When someone pays for a 1000 unit run of The Way to Happiness’, the author gets his royalty. We don’t know how much CO$ actually pays Davey for his services. With perhaps 1.5 billion in cash (real estate could be just as much), it will take quite a while for Davey to start munching peanut butter sandwiches.

            The shift from direct auditing and course sales only hurts the local mOrgs, not the corporate CO$.

    • Johan

      I think Mike might be thinking that is DM is forced to admit under oath that there are not millions of scientologists out there, word will get around eventually and cause the whole house of cards to collapse…..

      • Ze Moo

        Davey shouldn’t fear much about testifying, what can any grand jury or judicial process ask him that the 5th amendment or a ‘I don’t know’ wouldn’t cover? The ‘they’re picking on us’ defense covers almost anything negative about CO$.

        I think Davey just doesn’t want to look like a fool on the witness stand. Given the videos of his speeches and the old Nightline interview, he should be concerned about that.

  • InTheNameOfXenu

    Boy that’s a big trophy. It’s taller than Miscavige.

    • Scientology has such a strange taste for tacky trophies, plaques, and certificates. I’m just surprised that they don’t hand out gold plated Kool cigarettes nailed to a wooden plaque, but that probably wouldn’t be gaudy enough..

      • FistOfXenu

        Na, the real reason is that you couldn’t smoke them like that, so you couldn’t cure your cancer…

  • BosonStark

    The Duggans should donate the whale-of-a-sucker trophy to Trementina Base. I have a feeling the beings of the future would benefit from gazing on it and asking, WTF?

    Wouldn’t it be funny to wheel out a trophy of a large tennis racket, crossed by a golf club with a football in the center, and then watch no one even blink?

    • Ze Moo

      Most Bowling Leagues have more taste then the CO$.

  • Poison Ivy

    Hey Midwest Mom…I’ll contact you when my novel is out in a few weeks…don’t want to release my real name, etc. publicly but will contact directly “trusted” Bunker/Rodeo friends. Are you on Rodeo? Couldn’t find you over there.

    • Sherbet

      Lots of us are on the Rodeo, so PLEASE announce it there, PI! I like rubbing elbows with the famous!

      • Poison Ivy

        TY Sherbert! DEFINITELY NOT famous, just a worker bee, trying to “make the donuts,” as Mr. Poison Ivy would put it.

        • Sherbet

          As a frustrated writer (read: never published except in local small-time newspapers), I’m impressed with anyone who has the skill to write a Whole Book and get it published. Brava for you!

          • Poison Ivy

            “Just write the next word,” as they say. It kinda boils down to that. And it sounds so simple but because writers are usually somewhat mentally ill (speaking for self), we can make that basic act so damn complicated!

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          I’ll second Sherbet’s request! That’great–congrats!!! Keep the pen moving…

          • Poison Ivy

            Cheers, thanks all. I love the folks here – smartest & funniest group I know!

    • Oh please share with us, if you can. I’d love to buy your book!

      • me too! elaraitch at the bunker.

    • Midwest Mom

      I’m not on Rodeo. I had trouble getting on it, for some reason. Derek has my email address, though. Perhaps he could let me know. Is your distributor working with Amazon or any Michigan bookstores? Are you planning a lot of meet and greets? I’m so excited for you! It’s like showing everyone your new baby. 🙂

      • John P.

        Try it again. I’ll approve you (the approval process is just because that’s how Google works; it’s not some exclusive club). The only suggestion we had was that anyone concerned about privacy use a different e-mail address than one with potentially revealing information. “buster.alexander.fooforaw.of.cleburne.texas@gmail.com” might make it easy for the OSA goons to track you down, unless that’s a pseudonym. Google does not hide e-mail addresses in all circumstances.

        Link is here: https://groups.google.com/group/scientology-rodeo-watchers-from-the-village-voice/subscribe?note=1&hl=en&authuser=0&noredirect=true

        • Midwest Mom

          I put in a request. Are there refreshments there?

          • I sent you an email, MM. Let me know what you think….

          • Poison Ivy

            Wine and cheese at 5.

          • OK, MidwestMom…..your refreshments are served! It’s Happy Hour somewhere right now, right?

            • Midwest Mom

              My son’s basketball game was canceled due to bad weather, so I have a glass in each hand. Who’s pouring the bubbly?

      • Captain Howdy

        “it’s not some exclusive club”

        No shit..they let me in !

      • Poison Ivy

        No meet and greets for ‘e-books’ – but I’ll be on Amazon and other major sites.

  • jensting

    oh, and looking at Duggan’s big trophy: another sword! That’s gotta be worth 20 million – easy!

    • BosonStark

      That’s Excalibur baby — that sword is 100% standard golden age Arthurian magick — 20 million is a steal.

  • Sherbet

    Librarian Son says his library has 22 people on the waiting list for “Going Clear.” Woo hoo! (They’d better buy a few more copies.)

    • Sandy

      288 on waiting list here …

    • dwayners13

      I wonder if there is a waiting list to read the LRH books that Scientologists have donated to various libraries. I have a feeling there collecting dust in library basement throughout the world.

      • Midwest Mom

        They get rid of everything they don’t use through book sales or offer them for free. Anything left over is donated or thrown out.

      • Sherbet

        Yes, the librarians are waiting until the day they can throw them out for lack of interest!

    • 1subgenius

      Epic Librarian Son is Epic.

      Ask him if, as I suspect, libraries actually pay for most books that they put on their shelves, as opposed to free copies of shit like CoS’s, that no one wants to read.

      This, of course leads to a discussion of the criteria for archiving in general, but I’ll go off to Google for that. I’m sure its a deep subject.

      Also a comment from him on the relative amount of other (non-CoS) unsolicited free stuff they receive, vis-a-vis actually put on the shelves would help put some perspective on all this.

      • Sherbet

        I’ll ask him.

      • Midwest Mom

        I know at my library, unless it’s a book that the library already has an interest in purchasing, they put donations directly into the lobby book sale. When I spoke to one of our librarians about donations one time, she showed me a list of books and periodicals they were planning to order, all of which were based on patron request/popularity and trusted reviews. (Not Amazon). Exceptions are made if the books are written or illustrated by local authors or if the content pertains to the local area.

        • Poison Ivy

          My late Mom was a librarian at several small branch libraries. She read every book review and every piece of publishing trends/info she could get her hands on, then based on knowing her patrons, she’d place her orders. Of course this was in the stone age…but yes, libraries pay for books. Most donated books don’t go on the shelves unless they are already popular titles.

  • I tweeted this

    The World’s Most Deluded Billionaire is a Scientologist

    http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk

    #RobertDuggan

    … anyone with a twitter account should retweet to see if we can get it trending [my twitter account is https://twitter.com/media_lush ]

    • Sherbet

      I love the thought bubbles!

    • SP ‘Onage

      Hey, thanks for the scientologybollocks link! I’ve never read it before. XD

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      In case I haven’t told you recently, you really rock that site!

    • 1subgenius

      Spread like fire
      Just came across probably the most off-tangent and hilarious mention of Lawrence Wright’s book “Going Clear” …..http://hollywoodandswine.com/j…”

  • I wonder, one year out from this interview, if Rinder has any additional insight into “why he stayed”. I shake my head constantly when I read about any Indie that still buys into the very processes that trapped them to begin with; these people still don’t understand the very mechanics of mind control, thought stopping, and the creation of cult identities. They still buy into it. Sad.

    • 1subgenius

      Its hard to accept that you wasted 30+ years of this precious life (despite LRH doctine, the only one you have). Put yourself there. “Oh yeah, there’s some bad, but…..my life isn’t a total waste.”
      For some, denial is only one step on total escape.
      For others it will be the roadblock to recovery.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I would not trust a pharmaceutical company owned by a man who’s religious beliefs spews nonsense, that cancer is a psychosomatic illness.

    I guess, Duggan skipped reading “The History of Man,” heh! What a hypocrite!

    Cure cancer

    THE HISTORY OF MAN (1961) P. 20

    “Cancer has been eradicated by auditing out conception and mitosis.”

    • 1subgenius

      Nice find. You on this shit.

      • SP ‘Onage

        😉

    • 1subgenius

      “I would not trust a pharmaceutical company owned by a man who’s religious beliefs spews nonsense”

      No shit. Agree.
      The likely scenario is that he’s just a financial backer. He ain’t no scientist, obviously. And as long as he keeps his loony crap away from the real stuff, no harm no foul.
      Got a feeling tho’ that anything a major scilon is involved with ain’t gonna end well in one way or another.
      He definitely isn’t in it for the right reasons.

  • dwayners13

    My 7 yr old daughter saw the picture of the trophy (above) & asked “hey dad, what did that boy do to win that trophy, it’s even bigger than he is”.

    • You can make this question into a learning opportunity…..tell your daughter that he sold his soul for that trophy, and the little Napoleon next to him is the devil that negotiated that transaction. Maybe that’s too harsh for a 7 year old….never mind.

      • 1subgenius

        Way too much for a 7 year old. Gee.
        “Yeah, isn’t it funny?” About right.

        • Ya, bad on my part. Bad mood today.

          • 1subgenius

            And no young ‘uns, eh?

            • Who do you think is putting me in a bad mood?

    • Sherbet

      “that boy” — wouldn’t DM spit nickels to hear himself referred to that way!

      • 1subgenius

        “That boy”=best nickname for DM ever.
        Out of the mouths of babes.

        • Sherbet

          I wonder what his mom called him. I hope it was something embarrassing, like “Cookie.”

          • FistOfXenu

            I’m going with shnookums. Or maybe “Mommy’s Big Boy”.

          • Captain Howdy

            Actually, Jesse Prince or somebody else claimed that D.M’s mother called him “a little Hitler’ on at least one occasion.

            • Sherbet

              Hitler? DM? I don’t see it. /snark font/

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I was just reading “Robert A Heinlein, In Dialogue With His Century, Vol I” by William H Patterson Jr. (this eventually gets to an Earlier Similar Hitler reference, lol)

              Boy, does this explain even more where and who and why Hubbard got his ideas from and why he lied about his credentials. Also, the remarkable history of science fiction writers and their uncanny role in the war efforts and atomic bombs, radar, etc. It gives first hand accounts of how “nervous, jittery and unstable” Hubbard became after the war, but another writer notes that he was suffering from mental problems before the war, but now just didn’t care to hide it.

              There’s also a note from Heinlein about why he had to dump Hubbard’s friendship; while he had a long list of reasons, he hinted at the Only one was something about his wife’s nephews (boys) being “enticed” by Hubbard to go with him on some wild expedition to China. This was in 1946 when Ron was making busy with Parson and the free will sex magick kinky stuff. Never heard this one either! The nephews didn’t actually go, but Heinlein said while he would help Hub out in a jam because he was a wounded vet (lol), he was never welcomed in their house again. Interresting.

              But I wound up chasing another remark which lead me to this comment by an anonymous Sea Org member, from the ship:

              “Once asked what inspired him to form the CMO (Commodore’s Messenger
              Organization):

              He said it was an idea he had picked up from Nazi Germany. He said
              Hitler was a madman, but nevertheless a genius in his own right and the
              Nazi Youth was one of the smartest ideas he ever had. With young people
              you had a blank slate and you could write anything you wanted on it and
              it would be your writing. That was his idea, to take young people and
              mold them into little Hubbards. He said he had girls because women were
              more loyal than men. (40)

              According to some of the messengers, Hubbard did not have sex with
              them. One of the messengers stated, “I think he got his thrills by just
              having us around.”

            • That came out in Wright’s book – how undeferential his mother was to him – sharing amusing childhood anecdotes etc. jenna is quoted as a saying what a great grandma she was. Look forward to more in her book.

    • 1subgenius

      Very funny. Kids say the darndest things.
      Hope its a true story.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Two things immediately jumped out at me after reading this. I have read virtually every book on the church, but this interview drove the following points home for me.

    First, obviously, I knew Miscavige was demented from the stories of his violence and his inability to sanely communicate with others. Like a batterer-spouse, he presents a different picture to the world than he does to his “battered family.” It goes further, however, Miscavige is more than a batterer. He’s a sociopath and like all sociopaths, he doesn’t have a clue, nor does he care, how much pain he is inflicting with his demented bullying. It is inconceivable to him that the individual he is torturing will either fight back or leave. What is so chilling about that picture is this is the way disturbed children view flies when they are pulling the wings off, or pets when they are killing them. Miscavige is enraged and shocked when the “animal” (that is how he views individuals) leaves. The “animal” has no right to fight back or survive.

    Second, the vast amounts of money at Miscavige’s disposal is not cash reserves. It is members’ money on account that should have been held in escrow or trust and only dispersed when the member receives services. Miscavige’s Ponzi Scheme will come tumbling down if he is forced to refund the millions of dollars of “money on account” that he has spent.

    • Ze Moo

      As slappy holds the purse strings, he can move money from anywhere to the ‘monies on account’ fund(s). While refunds from the ‘monies on account’ fund may cause a temporary problem for CO$, I doubt that there are enough people with enough monetary claims to bring the cult down.

      The ‘churches’ lack of financial oversight will bite it in the ass one day. Just not today. Dammit……

      • Poison Ivy

        Dammit is right.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I think if one case, like the Garcia case, prevails, there will be hundreds of requests for refunds. Can Miscavige survive that? Probably, but if the numbers of donors continue to drop, some buildings will have to be sold. As it becomes evident, through the media, that the church is having financial problems, more members will leave and more people will demand refunds.

    • MissCandle

      Who audits the organization?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Deloitte and some giant soup cans?

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I doubt the IRS will conduct an audit of the church, despite the IRS requirement that the church keep accounting record. The Garcia case, or another like it, should demand financial records in discovery. So the answer to your question is either the attorneys in a court case or a law enforcement agency investigating the church.

        • MissCandle

          I see . . .

  • Sherbet

    What’s with the Excalibur theme in scn?

    • Captain Howdy

      Well, LRH did write a book called “Excalibur”. They love swords and horses..poor horses. It’s the Renaissance Fair from Mars.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m8SX-y4IB0

      • Sherbet

        I love your description, Cap. I didn’t know lrh wrote a book called “Excalibur.” I think I’ll skip it, along with lrh’s other fiction and non-fiction. Wait — it’s all fiction, though, isn’t it… The ancient legend of Excalibur, though — I’m imagining DM pulling the sword out of the stone the day lrh dropped his meat body, and that’s how he became cob. The king is dead! Long live the king!

        • Captain Howdy
          • Sherbet

            lrh’s blathering gives me an ice cream headache. Swords, crosses, magick, secrets, mysterious artifacts discovered by you-know-who…the man was so self-absorbed, he’s probably a black hole in space now (near the Van Allen Belt, no doubt).

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah but Excalibur is where LRH got OT 3 from and even after he put it into OT 3 he still tried to sell it as a script in Hollywood, so much for sacred scriptures.

            • Sherbet

              Well, said, Cap’n. Sacred scriptures or part of a double feature — whichever way he could sell it. That’s the lrh way.

              (Oh, no, you told me about OT3 before I was ready for it, and now I’m going to die of pneumonia.)

            • Captain Howdy

              Supposedly all the people who read ‘Excalibur’ went insane or committed suicide, on the spot, soon as they were done. So why did Hubbard keep letting people read it ?

            • Poison Ivy

              Captain you crack me up!

            • Captain Howdy

              So when he was bragging about his crock of shit killer writing no one said “why did you let people keep reading it ?” lol

              hey ! Crock of Shit = CoS

            • grundoon

              More likely, around chapter 2 they went insane or committed suicide rather than read one more page.

            • Poison Ivy

              J.K. Rowling did it much better.

        • I’m hearing Hermione’s voice saying, “No Harry, you’ve confused the spell with something else. It’s [thrusting her wand] EXPELEAMUS!” [Hubbard disappears in a puff of smoke]

  • Ze Moo

    A nice Toronto article on the future and past of the Toronto ‘Org’.

    http://www.thegridto.com/city/places/ghost-city-696-yonge-st/

  • Ivan Mapother

    If I were a sawed-off cult leader with hundreds of millions in getaway dollars to invest, where would I put them? Also, I think the trophy is sitting on the podium. It appears to be the favored height of Slappy Miscavige.

  • 1subgenius

    Pic of Duggan, et al. begs for “I gave $20 Million and all I got was this lousy trophy” T-shirt…

    • Sherbet

      Which one is the trophy: the trophy wife with the Vanna White dress; the big monstrosity with wings, a sword, and other golden appendages; or the diminutive stiff with the bowtie and clenched fist?

      • stillgrace

        … diminutive stiff …! Ha Ha! Good catch on the clenched first. Ready for action?

        • Sherbet

          He reminds me of those cardboard cutouts one sees at carnivals. “Take a picture with the President”

  • mook
    • Ze Moo

      The Buffalo NY CCHR event seems to have been attended only by loyal scilons or their ‘fellow travelers’. The connection between CO$ and CCHR seems to be known in Western NY. The local weekly alternative paper exposed the connection again in a piece published last week. The piece was just a blurb in the letters to the editor section, but its better then nothing.

  • Sherbet

    Suddenly, old posts are popping up as new. What the hey?

    • That usually happens when there are more than 200 comments on any one post.

      • TonyOrtega

        You all went and broke Disqus again with all your comments. (I love it.)

        • 1subgenius

          If that has any bearing on you getting paid, I’m all for it.

        • Daddy, I swear it wasn’t me! It was those body thetans!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Tony, we take our job’s seriously and we do what we can.
          You are welcome!

    • 1subgenius

      Yeah I get that once in a while. Re-boot or something.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Since Hubbard liked to be a good neighbor and “borrow” anything that wasn’t nailed down, I can’t help wondering if he didn’t invent “The Trailer Hole” in the Valley from another of Heinlein’s experiences. Yes, Miscavige took his Prison without Walls experiments to a whole new level, but borrowed from Hubbard. Housing right after WWII was seriously tight. Trailers and mobile homes gained popularity by necessity. Here’s first mention of a Hole:

    “Heinlein made a temporary solution to his housing problem:
    he invested his dwindling cash in a tiny “house” trailer he nicknamed his “Gopher Hole”: ”
    “He set up housekeeping in a trailer court in the far northern end of the San Fernando Valley,”

    and more history about holes with no walls for malcontents, “he” referring to Heinlein, his stories, all of which Hubbard would have read, some even before published format:

    “He had another H. G. Wells– inspired story he could write easily— a switch on something he had put into “For Us, the Living”, about the island prisons-without-walls for malcontents Wells had mentioned in “A Modern Utopia”.
    Patterson Jr., William H. (2010-08-17). Robert A. Heinlein: In Dialogue with His Century: Volume 1 (1907-1948): Learning Curve”

  • Jgg2012

    What if Duggan decides he was fraudulently induced into giving that money? Will he file a lawsuit like the Garcias?

    • Poison Ivy

      Oh that would be cause for popcorn!

  • dbloch7986

    My question is and will remain, what is the Church of Scientology keeping secret for Duggan? In all my years in Scientology I never once heard his name except perhaps in passing. Nor were his accomplishments in the pharmaceutical field ever noted by Scientologists or credited to Scientology.

    As a matter of fact, because of the nature of his business and how it conflicts with Scientology, and because in a pyramid scheme like Scientology that holds its donors name up for all to see, it seems strange to me that this man is the highest donor in the Church of Scientology. Sally and whatshisname Jensen’s names are all over the damn place in Scientology. They are the biggest donors I had heard of during my time in there.

    Something about this relationship is so strange, it’s almost like a red flag. I have a feeling that this man’s connection to Scientology has some kind of sinister undertone.

    How could the biggest donor in Scientology be someone who works in the pharmaceutical field? Why doesn’t Scientology herald his donation level and his accomplishments like they do everyone else’s? Why have I not heard his name before? What in the world is going on here?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Wait, wait ….wait Derek. Did you read the story on him? He is an “accidental” player in this drug.
      The guy invests in company for financial gain only. Think “Bain” and Romney. (I don’t have a problem with this). This company is no one off for him.

      This one looked like a profitable keeper and so he did.

      Duggan owns almost 20 percent of Pharmacyclics shares, and controls another 500,000 shares he manages on behalf of undisclosed high net worth individuals, according to filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

      The billionaire bought most of his shares from 2004 through 2011, at a cost of $42 million, including shares he received as repayment of $6 million he loaned the company, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. They are valued at about $975 million.

      In December 2011, New Brunswick, New Jersey-based Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) said it would pay Pharmacyclics, which Duggan took control of in a 2008 boardroom coup, as much as $975 million to fund getting the drug to market in exchange for half the profits generated globally.

      • dbloch7986

        Yeah I read that, but the fact that he was allowed to loan $6mil to a pharmaceutical company without repercussions from Scientology is not only shocking, but probably unheard of.

        I find it amazing that this man is allowed to retain his membership in Scientology while literally giving money to their “opposition”. If there ever was a corporeal form of “conflict of interest” this man is it. Is it any wonder that Scientology keeps their connection to him low key?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Probably so….It “IS” all about the money Derek. It always was and always will be….at least for as long as it continues.

          This is just like a really huge version of “Buying Indulgences”.

          Especially ones that benefit David Miscavige.

          • Poison Ivy

            Derek makes a good point, though – this should certainly be ammunition (as if one needs more!) to illustrate Scientology’s crass materialism – when it’s a choice between big bucks and doctrine, Scientology chooses doctrine every time. Ummmmm, are you listening IRS? Damn! Still crickets!

        • Ze Moo

          While it may be an ecclesiastical ‘conflict of interest’, it is not a monetary conflict. After the Brook Shields debacle, Tom Cruse himself stated that CO$ tells its members to get medical treatment when they need it. Of course, that was to mollify the FDA. Duggans investment in Pharmacyclics may have just been his usual ‘sell em short’ strategy that bloomed into real money when the drugs passed their trials. Psychotropic drugs don’t seem to be involved here.

          The Bloomberg story seems to be saying that the people who developed the drug and brought it to market were the ones screwed in the takeover. Sounds like a CO$ operation to me.

          I am surprised that Duggan isn’t an internal CO$ hero. His investment in pharmacology seems to be recent. Perhaps his past relationship with Slatkin is the problem.

          • dbloch7986

            Scientology takes a stance against pharmaceutical drugs in general. They are anti-medical and anti-psychiatry (although the anti-medical sentiment is kept much more quiet). The irony here should not be lost. Scientology’s biggest donations come from ROI in pharmaceuticals. Whether they are psychotropic or not, it is still shocking.

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    testing 1 * 2 * 3

    comments are definitely not posting or appearing/disappearing even after a refresh… anyone else?

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Last week Wright spoke at Politics and Prose in DC. I just got a link to the mp3 of that talk:

    http://www.politics-prose.com/lawrence-wright-going-clear-1-24-13
    I haven’t listened to it yet, but Chris over at the Rodeo said he was riveted and the Washington Post gave it a thumbs up. Wish I could have heard him in person…

  • I’d forgotten just how good these videos are, Mike.

  • H. Davis

    The Bible predicted in the last days false teachers would come.They would use people to ‘make merchandise of them’ i.e. extract money from them ‘out of greed.’There’s more about this in the New Testament, but this alone sounds like Scientology and teachers like Miscavige.