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Only 2,418 Scientologists in England and Wales, Vastly Outnumbered by Jedi Knights

EnglandCensusAfter all the new “Ideal Org” churches David Miscavige has been opening around the world in the last decade, there must be a giant surge of new members joining the Church of Scientology, right?

Um, well, no. In fact, the figures from the 2011 England and Wales census are out, and they are grim. In the second most important country to Scientology in the world, only 2,418 people claimed that they belonged to the church.

That’s not the only alarming number that came out this week regarding Scientology’s fortunes. Let’s dig in.

First, let’s try to put this census data into some perspective. It turns out that Scientology actually showed a little growth. Ten years ago, at the last census, only 1,781 people answered an optional question on the form by saying they were Scientologists.

That’s a growth rate of 64 new people each year in a country of 56.1 million people. This planet will be cleared in no time!

(Scientology traditionally claims to have more than 100,000 members in England and 10 million around the world, both of which are complete, well, balderdash, to use church spokeswoman Karin Pouw’s favorite word.)

The media is having a lot of fun with these results, of course. Scientologists in England and Wales are outnumbered by people who professed to be Jedi (176,632), Rastafarian (7,906), Heavy Metal (6,242), Druid (4,189), and Zoroastrian (4,105).

Also new this week: Google released information about 2012 search trends, and there was one result that stunned us.

In 2012, when Americans entered the words “What is…” in Google, the most popular next word they typed was “SOPA” — the controversial anti-piracy bill. But the second most popular “What is” search in the U.S. was “What is Scientology?”

Seriously!

Wow. We can think of lots of reasons why, of course. The divorce. The Master. Nazanin Boniadi.

So we are left with this: Interest in Scientology has probably never been higher, but that isn’t translating to growth for the church.

Meanwhile, more and more longtime, loyal members accustomed to paying big bucks are abandoning the church every day.

Church leader David Miscavige, however, keeps trying to take more and more money out of fewer and fewer people, as we’ve well established with our weekly leaks of fundraising mailers.

This math doesn’t look too good, COB.

 

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  • Observer

    I can’t wait to hear Karin Pouw’s rebuttal of this! Oh, right, it will be the fault of those dirty lying bitter defrocked apostates. Still, we can always hope for a different ridiculous explanation to mock.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I hope she sticks with Bal.der.dash!
      That’s a funny word.

    • I think that the good old Karin is in RPF. I get a strong suspicion that DM himself writes all of Pouw’s responses to the media. I don’t have any hard evidence, it’s just the responses became even more irrational and the use of offensive words really increased. So either Karin is losing it, or her name is simply being used by others or DM himself.

      • Observer

        I can totally see that being the case.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Agreed! I always wonder if he puts on a wig and lipstick to get in “valence’ so he can type up a KPOUW press release?

        • Observer

          Thanks for that mental image!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            yah! That one will stick to yer ribs, eh?

        • mook

          Dressed to Kill, much?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Touché

        • Exterrier

          Norman Bates MissCavige?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Normans Mother!

  • Chocolate Velvet

    How funny that 2.5 times as many people claim Heavy Metal as their religion. Rock on England! Your sense of Humor is stellar.

  • Well all I can say to that is;
    “If you knew what I know
    And I know you would
    You would do what I did
    You’d be blown for good.: 😉

    • sugarplumfairy

      Ya can’t guard me, jack.. =)

    • BuryTheNuts2

      BBBBblownforgood….

      ACK! I am never going to get it out of my head now. LOL

      • Sidney18511

        That is the biggest ear worm ever!

    • flunk0

      Dianizzle?

    • Mrs Libnish

      I was mumbling that all day yesterday, and it was gone today. Until now.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I know, she is EVIL that one!

  • SFFrog

    Scientology has grown from 0.003% of the England / Wales population to a whopping 0.004%. They are on track to hit 1% of the England / Wales population in another 9960 years. Upstat!

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Tony’s says: So we are left with this: Interest in Scientology has probably never been higher, but that isn’t translating to growth for the church.

    Ha! That’s because it has translated into US! In all of our various forms and fashions.

    I don’t think we are going to get any bonus points from DM on our KSW.
    Free Security Checks for Everyone!

    • No way!! Miss Savage pays for his with no discounts!

    • SandiCorrena

      I take great pride in the fact that as one of those who typed in what is CO$ I did not click on any scientology’s actual websites; I instintively knew I guess that clicking on them could spell trouble. Instead I found Tony and Tory and Scientology Kids, and the Headley’s and the TRUTH!

  • You crack me up Tony. “That’s a growth rate of 64 new people each year in a country of 56.1 million people. This planet will be cleared in no time!”

  • dagobarbz

    Well, this explains why their “proof” of expansion plays out as an account of how many square feet of real estate they acquired instead of actual members added. And to that I say, HAW haw!

  • Sherbet

    I’m no mathematician, but I read the entire population of England/Wales has increased by 3.7M people in 10 years. So doesn’t that calculate out to a DIP in number of per capita scns? Somebody figure this out. It makes my head hurt.

    • Sherbet

      Using my laughable skills, I come up with no increase in percentage of scis, based on population increase. Today and 10 years ago, the population of scis is about .0004.

      • SFFrog

        I figured it was up from 0.003% to 0.004% (based on 2001 / 2011 population figures of 52.4M / 56.1M).

        • Sherbet

          That’s what I got, but I rounded up. No matter what, rounding up or rounding down, I think I hear the chirping of crickets in empty orgs.

          • Sherbet

            Maybe the last sci in England will be the manic “Stuck in an Electronic Incident” George from the famous video that somebody posted yesterday. Turn out the lights when you leave, George. Better still, leave them on to further drain cos’s coffers.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yes, and last year Sponge pointed out a very important factor about this survey:

        “Note that it is not just UK citizens who fill out the census……
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Census_2011

        Everyone who has lived or intends to live in the country for three months or more will be required to complete a questionnaire. Special arrangements are being made to count people living in communal establishments
        such as boarding schools, prisons, military bases, hospitals, care
        home, student halls of residence and hotels – and for rough sleepers,
        royal apartments and embassies”

        https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/uk-census-this-year-27th-march-2011.68548/

        England, St Hill is the crossroads for many Other countries, similar to Flag in Florida or the Complex in L.A., and many staff would be there for training as well as public from all over, and would include Sea Org Staff from Anywhere.

        So we have 2,418 from this survey representing Europe and Africa, and 2,163 from 2011 Australia census survey (I’ll find link later?). 5,581 total plus US (where Taiwanese go to for upper levels and Canada and others). Filling Eckerd Hall which off top of my head 2100 to 2300 in Clearwater FL, or the Shrine Auditorium around 2,000 in L.A. , in both scientologists Staff, staff not public, have to be bused in or flown in to fill the seats. Videos of individual major orgs show a handful of staff 4 to 20, and public 2 to 8. Twelve major city orgs. The rest are so dead as to not count, some closed, or just 1 or 2 staff skeletons hanging around in reception.

        I’m coming up with generously 3,500 bringing a worldwide total scientologists at * 8,781 * I’d guestimate 5,000 Sea Org, Cl 5 Org and Mission staff, leaving 3,781 public and minimum 80% of those are broke or bankrupt. That leaves 756 scientologists who are not yet maxed out on credit cards. I’m thinking not enough to pay the scientology electric bill or Miscavige’s bar tab at the casinos.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          And this begs the question: Did John P. ever chase down the suspected coordinates to DM’s future hidey hole?
          Sounds like he may be having to pack up his John Lobb’s here eventually.
          mkay buhbye

          • John P.

            Haven’t done much on blowing the cover of Miscavige’s hidey hole. I have, alas, had to devote a bit more time to matters of capitalism than usual the last couple months. The next steps involve some serious leg work and coordination, and I haven’t had time. I remain confident that I’m within a mile of his location, but of course we need to pin it down to the exact house and get pictures of the place in order to accomplish the mission.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Within a MILE? Damn, that is pretty impressive.
              All you need now is some Top of the Line Geospatial Intelligence software and a Dart!

        • John P.

          Some thoughts on these estimates. But before I start, I want to make it clear I’m trying to add constructive input to the numbers to make them more accurate. I agree with several of the key assumptions you raise here, but I think the math backing up the assumptions is too stingy.

          I agree with your general conclusion: membership continues to shrink, many orgs are empty, the missions even more so, and the staff size is bloated far beyond what is needed to take care of the number of public actually “on lines” at the moment.

          Based on various work I’ve done over the last year, I’m inclined to think that your estimate of 5,000 staff and Sea Org is about right; one can do a build-up number based on individual units (Bridge Pubs, AOLA, Freewinds, Int Base, etc) and get to 5,000 slaves on the payroll. Based on some printed material I think some flagship Class V orgs are larger than 8 to 10 staff. There was a series of ads for Melbourne Org that listed almost 100 employees relatively recently, for instance. So I think a handful of showcase orgs are carrying more than a skeleton staff. All that gets one to 5,000 pretty quickly.

          But I think you’re underestimating the number of public globally. I read your comment about Europeans to be that you’re saying that there are no active cultists outside England, which I don’t think is accurate. There are (relatively) big operations in the Scandinavian countries, and in Eastern Europe. There are numerous comments about orgs in Western Europe being staffed by Russians and Eastern Europeans (who don’t necessarily speak the host language). And if you look around, there are about 20 orgs and missions in Russia, which, even at the anemic per-org stats we’re seeing elsewhere, could easily amount to about 2,000 public. So I would suggest that your European total is a bit low, and could easily amount to about 1,500 staff and 5,000 public.

          Taiwan alone might be another 1,000 public. My impression after watching a number of YouTube videos about various Freewinds courses (including the Competence and Leadership course which TonyO wrote about) is that a sizable chunk of people at the Freewinds are non-US, and a disproportionate number of the non-US Freewinds passengers are Asians.

          There’s also the number of culties in Colombia to think about; that could contribute another 1,000 to the global total. I’m not expecting many people at the orgs in Pakistan and Mumbai, but there are enough buildings that even a few dozen per will boost the non-US stats.

          That leaves us with the US number. Yes, they’re reduced to needing “seat fillers” at events (whether staff or outsiders) to fill the halls. But I think it is important to cross-check your very conservative estimates of the size of the US public against published information such as donor lists for IAS, Super Powers, and local Ideal Org campaigns. I don’t have those source documents in front of me, but working from memory, I think there are a couple hundred IAS donors listed in the program every year, with a minimum contribution of $5,000 to get listed. And there are several hundred donors to Super Powers listed in the most recent flyers, and I think the minimum there is $35,000.

          The challenge in estimating the size of the US population is to estimate accurately the number “on lines” (currently receiving services) versus the number of “under the radar” crowd, who give minimally to the IAS and participate minimally in other ways so that they don’t get disconnected, and thus put their businesses at risk. I think the number of “under the radar” folks, particularly in LA, could be in the several thousand range. They’re writing (small) checks but are still counting themselves as Scientologists if a reg from Pac Base calls.

          I’m going to say there are: 3,000 Sea Org, staff, etc. in the US and 10,000 public. Of the 10,000 public, I’d believe that 5,000 are actively “on lines” and the other half are “under the radar,” inactive but hoping not to be disconnected.

          That said, I’m not arguing that the cult is in better shape economically than we expect, since the Eastern Europeans and the Taiwanese, the two “growth” demographics, are not likely to be as flush with cash as most of the older US and Western European “whales” that have been the biggest IAS donors in the past. So including these demographics does increase the body count, but given that their per capita firepower is less, bumping the headcount estimate up does not improve the economic outlook much.

          I also agree that the bulk of US cultists are tapped out. Of particular interest is the fact that the IAS “whales” are increasingly tapped out, either because they’ve given too much off the top to the cult (Richie Acunto & Survival Insurance, Rex Fowler and his software company, tons of dentists and chiropractors) or because they are suffering reversals in their fortunes due to external causes (Craig Jensen’s software company is obsolete with the advent of modern storage hardware; Nancy Simpson gets only residuals when the Simpsons ends).

          Again, the point here is to try to work constructively to get to a number that is realistic (not too generous, not too small). I simply think a number of under 9,000 globally, including staff, is just too small to fit all the available data points. My number is not too much larger than yours, in the cosmic scheme of things… I am going for about 25,000 worldwide right now including staff, which is significantly lower than the number I came up with the first time I did this exercise at the beginning of the year. The change is partly attrition and partly better data, since I was relatively new at being a critic back then (gosh! has it been only a year? Time sure flies when you’re having fun!).

          • ze moo

            Twenty-five thousand is a number that former Ronbots have published. If you believe a 1990 census of 40 thousand, the CO$ has lost 62.5% of its membership in twenty years. At this rate there will 5 of them by 2025. Wasn’t that a crappy song by Zagger and Evans??

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic

          • sugarplumfairy

            Sounds good to me, John P..

            And maybe co$ considers this topic too hot to handle.. Our friendly neighborhood trolls seem to be deployed elsewhere today.. And it’s not Thursday at 2pm..

            Maybe OSA doesn’t want their worker bees to know how endangered the species is becoming??

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, where is your BF Bowel Movement? He likes you SPF.

            • sugarplumfairy

              What’s not to love? I’m frking adorable.. =)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              fuckin true shorty!

        • Thanks for the work, Hole. Your figures are much closer to my experience.

  • ze moo

    Unless each of those new 64 scinos are millionaires, Davey is not going to be happy. You can go for quantity or quality, but usually not both. The scamatology recruiters must be lonelier than a british dentist.

  • flunk0

    Wow, “What is Scientology”, 2nd most googled … what a brand!

    • SFFrog

      Joseph Kony and Jimmy Saville really improved their Google search rankings this year as well.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Kony!

        There is a crazy man. I have an old friend who just came back to the states for some well deserved R&R after eight months of tracking that bastard through the bush and jungles. He is “elusive”!

  • Skydog

    The more one learns about scientology, the faster they learn to run.

  • John P.

    1.) I thought Karin Pouw’s favorite word is “apostate,” not “balderdash.”

    2.) Going from 1.781 to 2,418 in a decade is a growth rate of 3.1% per year. In the same time, the population of England, per the census, went from 52.4 million to 56.1 million, a growth rate of just under 0.7%. So Scientology is experiencing almost five times the growth rate of the country as a whole. If they bothered to do the math, that would be the number they’d trumpet from the rooftops.

    This means that, if you apply the same growth rates to these respective numbers, the entire UK population of 1.035 billion people will be “clear” in the year 2435 A.D. To a thetan with countless reincarnations, that’s a blip on the whole track.

    3.) The UK census notes that more than half of the UK population increase since 2001 was due to immigration. I would bet that a much higher percentage of the growth in Scientology membership in England is also due to immigration, to slaves pulled in from Eastern European countries to work at Saint Hill and other organizations located in the UK but that serve all of Europe. So much of the increase is likely to be employees, not “public.”

    4.) Given staffing levels in general, and given a flyover of the Saint Hill site on Google Earth, I’d estimate that 1/3 of the 2,481 number are employees, not members. The fact that the cult has one employee for every two “public” members is perhaps the biggest evidence that their economic model is unsustainable. Put that together with a broken business model (they’re selling a “product” that fewer and fewer people want to buy at a price that even fewer of those that want to buy it can actually afford it) and you’re talking trouble in River City.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The staff/public ratio has inverted now, JohnP. ASHO and AOLA completions and Flag completions last 2 years show mostly staff doing training and ethics type auditing. Flag had to scream and bribe public to get just 220 of them onto Solo Auditing (10,000 my you know what). Flag has been ripping off All public as well as staff for about the last 4 years. That is another confirming factoid of the dwindling Paying scientologists. Staff who leave are reporting humongous “debts” because they are being cannibalized as customers. It used to be 1/3 staff to public, now its 2/3 staff, 1/3 public. This cult is circling the drain exponentially. If you go outside, face towards the direction of Clearwater and put a shell to your ear, you can actually hearing the sucking sound. Nope, that is Not the Gulf.

      • If your stats are from the Source Magazine and this includes staff training from outer orgs, or not, is important to consider.

        If the staff being trained, are going to be functional as the “pirests” (auditors or case supervisors) for Flag Mecca church, then that is somewhat valid.

        The completions stats for “priest” (auditor and case supervisor) courses could mean the completion people are going back to their churches or missions (mini churches).

        I hate to use the word “priests”, but that is likely the best label to immediately convey accurately what auditors and case supervisors are.

        The public just coming to get services for their selves, are NOT as important, longer range.

        Sure the public (parishioners) float the operation with their paid donations, but the number of made “priests” (auditors and case supervisors who in turn go out and DO the pseudo therapy on parishioners, shows the health, or not, bottom line); since this is all about delivering the pseudo-therapy to supposedly “raise” the parishioners, one by one, up their paths, up that Hubbard “Bridge to Total Freedom” chart.

        My guess, as we all know, is that the numbers of “priests” is declined, over the years.

        A major behind the scenes statistic we need to see, are the numbers of “priests” being made, and who are operational, and who go out and do their thing as priests and case supervisors, or not!

    • Guest

      Having wasted 16 of the most important career building years as a Scientologist, I know anyone in the church will fixate on your mistake of substituting jumped from millions to billions will be used, in their hampster in a wheel minds to discredit your post. Be precise if you want to help.

      • John P.

        Your suggestion to me:

        Be precise if you want to help.

        My suggestion back to you: Check your own math before you criticize someone else’s. Better yet, don’t just accuse someone of making a math error without actually crunching some numbers yourself.

        I did deliver precision in my estimates. I used full precision in Excel to do the number crunching and did not round anywhere. The only rounded numbers in the whole exercise are the full population numbers from the UK census (54.7 million and 56.1 milion). Using the exact numbers from the raw census data would not materially affect the outcome of the computation that said the entire UK population would be cleared by the year 2435.

        You really do go from a population measured in millions to a population just over 1 billion in 423 years when growing from 56.1 million people today at 0.7%. The math is accurate. Crank up a spreadsheet and do it yourself.

        As an eyeball check (which you always want to do if you want to stay employed at Global Capitalism HQ, and which I did in this case before I posted my original comment), 56.1 to 1,035 is a growth of 20x, which is about 2 to the 4.3 power. That’s relevant because that’s the time for the population to double, double again, double again, double again and then grow a little bit more. Under the “rule of 72,” an amazing rule of thumb (Google it), money doubles in a number of years equal to 72 divided by the growth rate. 72 divided by 0.7 is about 100, so at the growth rate of the last 10 years, the UK population would double in 100 years. That’s why I talked about 2 to the 4.3 power. So by the Rule of 72, my estimate cross-checks quite nicely.

        I didn’t get the numbers wrong. You didn’t bother to think before you opened your mouth.

        • God, I love the sound of numbers crunching. *swoon* Will you marry me?

          • Sandy

            Get in line, Gayle. I’m an accountant. John P makes my heart flutter …..

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          JohnP, typically when folks talk numbers to me I get hives. When you do it, for some reason, I want to er… ummm… what Auntie Katie said….

        • Chris Paddock

          I suspect that your arithmetic is impeccable – but you don’t seem to be so hot on geography.
          “the population of England, per the census, went from 52.4 million to 56.1 million”

          56.1m = England and Wales (per the 2011 England and Wales census, Office of National Statistics) and Wales is not part of England (and England with or without Wales is neither Great Britain nor the UK {and GB and the UK are not the same either}). Try http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/britain/britain.htm for clarification.
          Presumably you realised you had made an error of 3m people when you concentrated exclusively on the numbers in your response. Doesn’t invalidate your main point of course, but it’s nice to know you can screw up – why should I be the only one!

      • What’s your take on the number of auditors and case supervisors, in your years where you had the chance to see firsthand in the orgs you interacted with, did the numbers of auditors and case supervisors go up or down, or stay the same?

        And in particular, did the number of mission auditors and case supervisors and also field auditors got up or down, or stay the same?

        The “priests” of Scientology are the auditors and case supervisors. They actually DO the Hubbard pseudo-therapy, and they are the ones to watch their numbers, and gauge how the movement is growing or NOT!

    • Having lost 16 of the most important career-building years of my life as a Scientology staff member, I know members will fixate on your leap from millions to billions and England to the UK to discredit your post. We have to be precise if we want to convince the hamsters to stop running inside the wheel and work, instead, on unlocking the f***ing door.

      • Hey Jason,

        From the time you were first on staff or in a particular org, to the time you left, and even until now, were the numbers of staff auditors and staff Case Supervisors about the same, or decreased, or increased?

        To me, the number of staff auditors auditing the public, and the number of case supervisors, at your org, and at the orgs you crossed paths with, is important to share that raw info!

        thanks!

        Chuck Beatty
        ex OEC/FEBC course sup, Flag
        ex Sea Org, 1975-2003
        866-XSEAORG

      • jensting

        If only members had the balls (or “confront” as they say) to come here and challenge the math… (And, of course, the math is – ahh – worth thinking about twice, as John hopefully makes clear – ha ha – below.)

    • lia
  • Dean Fox

    I’m a little concerned that there’s been growth at all in the church of scientology. I know how ever the church had a big push to get their members to use the census mainly because some were crowing after the census how the results would show that the church was growing; which is why it’s annoying that they seem to, albeit by a very tiny amount.

    • John P.

      Actually, if you take the flip side of the argument you raise, it’s actually better than it first looks: if there was a big push for all the culties to identify themselves as Scientologists in 2011, that may well have been because they were under-represented in 2001. As a result, the growth rate would be lower than the basic math would suggest. And that’s a good thing.

      And if you grant the possibility that a significant chunk of the growth since 2001 is labor imported from other countries (particularly E. Europe) to run the Saint Hill bureaucracy, then you could build a very reasonable case that the number of “public” is shrinking.

      Incidentally, if you consider the population of the US and UK proportionally, the most recent “hard” data we have on cult membership, the Pew Religion & American Life survey from (I think) 2008, suggested 25,000 Scientologists in the US, though this was sampled (with a good sample size) not done as a census. Accounting for defections since 2008, you get to under 20,000 Scientologists in the US. The US has a population of about 310 million, slightly less than 6x the population of the UK. So the per capita incidence of Scientologists in the US and the UK, the two strongest countries, is approximately the same. In other words, Scientology is no stronger in the UK than it is in the US, which is also a good thing.

      Since we’re talking about England, I wish I had time to look up a Winston Churchill quote of some relevance, but I don’t. Sigh…

      • ermergersh

        “The truth is incontrovertible, mailce may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.”

      • Sid Snakey

        “I may be drunk, Miscavige, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be a short, violent idiot.”

        • BuryTheNuts2

          You are already Drunk Sid?
          What is yer time zone?
          It is still at least a “Witching Hour” away from Drunk blogging.

          Oh, and its only Wednesday!

          • Observer

            Bessie Braddock MP: “Winston, you are drunk, and what’s more you are disgustingly drunk.”
            Winston Churchill: “Bessie, my dear, you are ugly, and what’s more, you are disgustingly ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh yes, Love that one!
              and Edit rocks.

            • N. Graham

              Lady Astor (to Churchill): If I was married to you, I’d give you poison.
              Churchill (to Lady Astor): If I was married to you, I’d take it.

          • Observer

            WSC = Winston Churchill

      • sugarplumfairy

        “The appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile—hoping it will eat him last.”

        “…it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

        “Solitary trees, if they grow at all, grow strong.”

        “Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.”

        “From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I shall not put.” (not necessarily apropos, but I like it..)

    • DeElizabethan

      I’d bet, since it was in a 10 year period that most of that growth was before 2008. Whatcha think?

  • I’m just surprised and happy to see that Heavy Metal is considered a religion in the U.K. m/ m/

    As far as the Scientology stats are concerned I’m sure Slappy will find a way to graph this for the next trained seal gathering to show it as a “straight up and vertical highest evuh”.

  • Guest

    I just Googled (What is) and Scientology did not come up??? But when I types the whole thing
    (What is Scientology) so unflattering things popped right up.

    • if you cookies enabled [most do] your what is search is based on your own browsing history

  • ze moo

    2418 Scientologists
    1893 Satanists
    1958 Heathens
    Pagans and Wiccans way out ahead with 56620 and 11766 respectively. Druids 4189.
    Moonies only 452.
    Jedi Knights 176632. Heavy Metalists 6242

    At least the Satanists know they are serving the devil.

    I wonder if the Heavy Metalists have Procol Harum as saints? I’d join that schism……

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Whoa…………Whiter shade of pale forever!

      • ermergersh

        That’s what the kids used to say about me when I went swimming.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Lulz…me too…My cracker ass was like a full fuckin bright moon.!

    • John P.

      It should be noted that the Druids have a growth rate crisis far worse than the cult of Scientology. The druids have been doing that old Stonehenge thing for 10,000 years, and they’re only up to 4,189 members… That’s not doing terribly well.

      And the Zoroastrians, the world’s oldest religion that has been continuously practiced, is not doing so well either. (By the way, trivia question of the day: who is the best selling Zoroastrian recording artist in history?)

      • Milli Vanilli?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Ooh..I am glad you are here.
          What was the name of that book you were talking about that said we humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee?

          • 1subgenius

            Now I want to know.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
              Jonathan Haidt

      • ze moo

        While the Druids are beating out the Scinos, the Scinos still outnumber the Heathens. I wonder why there is no listing for Vikings? I would expect some Odin worship from the English football crowd.

        The Zoroastrians have been undergoing their own diaspora ever since the Mullahs took over Iran. They have been migrating ever where, usually as political/religious refugees. The only difference between the Zoroastrians and 1940’s Jews, is Zoroastrians aren’t afraid of trains.

      • CharlieWaters

        Freddy Mercury?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          DING DING DING

        • John P.

          WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

        • mirele

          Damn, you got there first.

  • I just Googled (What is) and Scientology did not come up??? But when I typed the whole thing
    (What is Scientology) some unflattering things popped right up.

  • brendon

    Do you people not know anything about how the COS reports stats? By the time they’re done with this, an increase from 1781 to 2418 members will be reported as “Nowhere are the Ideal Orgs making a difference more than in the UK where growth is truly straight up and vertical with an explosive 36% increase in membership!”

    • Anononyourside

      How many of the growth was generational, i.e., children, and children of children?

  • BosonStark

    Although “What is Scientology” was #2, I’m sure if both “What the fuck is Scientology” and “What the hell is Scientology” were added, it would #1 for sure.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      How about “Who Is Mrs Tom Cruise now?”

      • They will take no chances this time; he will be issued a “Stepford Scientology Edition”.

  • DeElizabethan

    Good news! The clock is ticking and the cult is drowning slow but for sure, due to the pressures of which will be continued, to a very good result. Bravo to all such wonderful people who are helping.

  • ermergersh

    It would be interesting to know the exact number of Scientologists who were living at or near St. Hill manor, in East Grinstead at the time the census was conducted and whether they were permanent residents or not.

  • Here’s a comparative graph via The Guardian:
    http://charts-datawrapper.s3.amazonaws.com/PmT0G/index.html

    Ignore ‘Atheist’ and ‘Agnostic’, those people were supposed to tick the ‘None’ box.

    Also note “Mixed Religion 23,566”. The cult has often claimed that members put their birth religion down when answering such a question, or as this entry presumably indicates both it and Scientology.

    • NoMoreVisitsPlease

      Only 348 realists…now THAT’S disappointing.

    • Francois Tremblay

      Nope buddy, atheist and agnostic =/= “no religion.” Get your head outta your ass.

  • NoMoreVisitsPlease

    Maybe in 2012 the most popular search will be “What is a Zoroastrian?”

  • sugarplumfairy

    “So we are left with this: Interest in Scientology has probably never been higher, but that isn’t translating to growth for the church.”

    Amen!

  • Sherbet

    Off topic: Has anyone seen any video (of demonstrations, perhaps) at the three recent events in LA: motorcycle/Baca/TWTH booklet thing; announcement meeting (new tech, maybe); CCHR walk in conjunction with UN Human Rights Day?

    I’ve looked on YouTube, but haven’t seen anything (yet).

  • scnethics

    2,418 too many

  • Espiando

    Here’s one thing I’d love to know about non-US membership: What’s the higher number, staff and public at CoS Tel Aviv, or staff and public at Dror Center? If the Indies outnumber the culties in Israel, that’s something that all of us, whether Indie, Ex, Anon, or Anti, can and should broadcast to the four winds.

    And we really shouldn’t make fun of the Zoroastrians. Other than the Jews, they’re the oldest monotheistic religion still active today. And they’re infinitely cooler than the Jews, Christians, or Muslims, because you can’t drive a Jehovah, Jesus, or Muhammad, but you can drive a Mazda.

  • Mrs Libnish

    A little off topic but I was just at the grocery store and John Travolta’s big head was slapped on the cover of the National Enquirer with the heading “TRAVOLTA LINKED TO SCIENTOLOGY DEATHS!! He funded facility where victims died”. Oops. Everyone peruses the covers of those trash mags when absolutely bored waiting in line. 🙂

  • DeElizabethan

    John P. I absolutely love and respect you so much. You are simply amazing! 🙂

  • mook
    • BuryTheNuts2

      Check the story date.

      • mook

        *facepalm* the fine folks at WWP posted this as if it were new story.

  • As so many are asking about COS, lets keep working to help people learn the real truth about this outfit. That is one of the keys to it’s demise.

  • If I were asked by an Exec Strata member, “What’s your take on the news of these stats?” Given the full knowledge that the Exec Strata members, and ED Int, that they all were well informed for real, behind he scenes, with the full lineup of the Int Stats for Exec Strata, and the Int Stats for WDC, which is the total detailed breakdown of everything, with 5 and 10 year graphs showing the trends, and knowing what Hubbard told us, which is that the Exec Strata (think tank per Hubbard’s last wishes for this all important council, one of the two absolutely top most “buck stops here” councils, with WDC Watchdog Committee, being the other of the two top managerial “International Headquarters” councils), my honest answer would be, “Let’s look at the sub statistics.” I’d want to see the sub stats for the numbers of active Class 5, 6, 8 and 12 auditors and case supervisors, that is the guts of Scientololgy practice, not the fluff PR bullshit stats the movement Miscavige leader shares.

    And I would look further into the sub statistics, which we could get from any recently defected HGB Int Liaison Org level person who can think with the Int stats, the stats that WDC and Exec Strata look at, which the managers at the LA HGB Int Liaison Org level who are allowed and are factually required by Hubbard policy, to keep themselves weekly briefed, there is Hubbard management level policy that orders ALL the ILO (Int Liaison Org) who are in the HGB (Hollywood Guarantee Building, the “bank” building, the “middle management”, or also known as “upper middle management” and “Flag Management” level, this is the LA international but lower level than the international level at the Int Base Hemet/San Jacinto/Gilman Hot Springs “top management” two councils—Watchdog Committee being a tiny bit senior to the Exec Strata, those are the top managerial, and the LA international “clearing house” and boots on the ground managerial internationally are the Int Liaison Org staff in the HGB building at the corner of Ivar St, and Hollywood Blvd, the “bank” building, the “HGB”, which is a big notch above the people all housed at the LA “complex”, the complex is a whole major big echelon DOWN the pecking order, and then a whole BIG notch UP in the pecking order from the HGB biulding ( a huge pecking order leap UP) is the Int Base at Hemet/Gilman Hot Srpings. Oh gosh, it’s not appreciate, by those that read this, just how much in the minds of these Sea Org staffs who work at these echelons, the “complex” is only the Western United States continental zone, one of about 8 continental zones; then there’s the HGB level, that is OVER all the continental zones, and then there is the Int Base with WDC and Exec Strata which is over the whole Hubbard church shebang, then there’s Miscavige who has just torpedoed and decimate the whole layout I’ve laid out here, in Miscavige’s supreme ignorance, but Hubbard wrote the setup, I me, Chuck Beatty, was one of the two probably all time “best” course supervisors who really took the whole Hubbard organizational lineup crap seriously, so that is why I will go into details for anyone interested in the Hubbard slant to it all —- my thoughts are, in other “religions” the author and writer(s) of the organizational structures of any religion, those people are listened to, and in Scientology’s case, it is Hubbard’s more lmited distribution writings, the Sea Org and the upper echelons’ writings of Hubbard’s, which will be there, when we (Miscavige and Tom Cruise included) are dead and gone, and thus, I only feel a tiny bit obligated to go anal on the Hubbard orders/policies, which will be what the future generations of Scientologists who take up the challenge of working in the communal “Sea Org” —-lifetime staffer —- ranks, and how the whole Hubbard writings will likely thus play out, into the future, once all the big players of today, are dead and gone.. Sheesh, whew!

    Okay the point of my comment, getting back to this thread, is that were I to think like Hubbard (and think like the “sane” Hubbard, meaning if the Exec Strata “think tank” who are one of the top two councils Hubbard left the movement with who are challenged with the responsibility to pick through the sanest ideas that Hubbard left them as options) what would I advise my Exec Strata superior (since me, Chuck Beatty, my tiny goal in the whole convoluted Hubbard mess, was to be a nerd “admin” writings of Hubbard “expert” and advise the sanest of Hubbard’s ideas to the Exec Strata big cheeze “Executives” bosses, for what would be Hubbard’s “best” solution, to this actual factual statistical decline situation.

    (I remember the day that Paul Grady told me, just after a year of running rings around ALL of the Int Exec Strata staff when it came to Hubbard policy rules, I was told ED Int, Gulliuame Leserve did NOT want me on the Exec Strata team, what a fucking idiot, I thought, he didn’t know what he’d just done, there was no one like me, at Int, at that time, a totally willing nerd expert of Hubbard’s crap admin rules, what a fucking idiot GL was, I could have been the letter writer’s assistanct, and he just didn’t appreciate what I had to offer, well I’ve been unfortunately chatting for 8 years the admin goofs of Miscavige and GL and the unfortunately scapegoated lineage of Exec Strata people who have not been allowed to assume their positions as the real “think tank” theoreticians and strategy decision makers, all I wanted to be, was a helper to the final theoretician think thank people, sheesh, and I was suited, but no one appreciated this.)

    My advice, would be, “what are the sub stats”, the KEY sub stats:

    a) Number of Class 12s made and functioning
    b) Total number of Class 12s working at Flag
    c) Number of Class 8s made this past year
    d) Total number of Class 8s functioning withing the Sea Org (and tolal number working at Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles, since LRH ordered that the CC Int (the celebrity centre international at the fancy Hollywood building) was to ONLY deliver to the major celebrities with Class 8 (or higher) trained Sea Org church staffers!!!
    e) Number of Class 6s made (a HUGE accomplishment, any true high level trained Scientologist will tell you that the Class 6 course is the all time hardest and longest course, for training to be an auditor)
    f) Number of Class 6s actually auditing or case supervising in the Sea Org orgs

    You get my drift, were I the Exec Strata biggest cheeze over the above statistics, who is called “Services Executive International”, what I would be wanting to know, is the trend of the actual highest classed auditors (pseudo therapists) and the highest classed Case Supervisors. (The Case Supervisor role is a position ABOVE the auditor, which requires more training to supervise by actual session by session review of what ALL auditors, all levels, do in their sessions on the parishioners, thus the Case Supervisor has to know the Hubbard shit like nobody’s business): the health of the movement is truly also very importantly and likely best gauged, NOT by just how much money the movement is ripping off, but by how many auditors and case supervisors are actually ENGAGING in the core practices (rituals) of the Hubbard Scientology practices!

    The outside world has been so obfuscated by Hubbard’s PR crap, and the Scientology membership itself has been so conditioned mentally to play the “religion” game and role, and they stumble along goofing up doing Hubbard’s piss poor PR counter tactics, it’s like a guaranteed show for interested observers of the Scientology movement.

    But behind the scenes, Hubbard wanted his practices to be BEING DONE, and the core behind the scenes church policy say do the practice, and let the PR people do the “fronting” for the movement, while behind the scenes, Hubbard just stressed DO the procedures of his “Bridge to Total Freedom”.

    One of Marty’s arguments, which if Hubbard were alive, Hubbard would be even MORE adament about, is getting the Scientology auditing being done, and push people “up the Bridge.”

    As voluminous and extensive as Hubbard (even per his own early policy) is obsessed, the “admin” organizations and money collecting being pushed by Hubbard and by Miscavige today, Hubbard was the one who made the pseudo therapy subject and exorcism practices, and he knew those practices had to be done.

    And the KEY raw statistic, is how many of the Scientology membership, are in the official churches, missions and groups and “field auditor” echelons, who are actually DOING the Hubbard pseudo-therapy.

    Another whole major reason, I feel, the movement cannot think like this, is a reason that Hubbard indirectly forwarned about, in Hubbard’s despatch to David Mayo, where Hubbard speculated that Mayo might have to go independent, as the senior “tech” mind and really Mayo truly was the one to inherit the “tech” mind of Hubbard, and this is such a major underappreciated point I repeat, since others have made this point, especially the others who formed that wave of “tech” apostates who pushed Mayo to form the AAC (Advanced Ability Center, Santa Barbara, where the Mayo group of long term top notch Scientologists delivered the whole Hubbard shebang, with NO muss and no fuss (except the infiltration of the RTC run spy Gary Klinger and OSA operatives, Ray Mitoff’s brother, Nancy Many, a whole slew of spies were sent in to disrupt and half the Mayo Scientology group that delivered the whole Bridge competently and without a lot of turmoil.)

    Back to this thread, sorry, the point of what I would do, were I the movement, and had to answer for these dismal statistics, I’d go to the sub statistics, and see what was really going on.

    Well, the “religion” of Scientology, behind these years of money obsession, due to Miscavige, who is NOT an auditor person, he’s NOT a Case Supervisor person, he’s not, what we call a “tech” guy, he’s a manipulative player of all of Hubbard’s behind the scenes and unofficial bad behavior crap that Hubbard displayed and which got passed on by stories from the likes of people like Norman Starkey, who probably has told Miscavige just about every Hubbard bad behavior story that ever occured (my opinion, but I’ll bet Norman and Maria Starkey just filled Miscavige’s little ears with the stories of LRH’s personal brutish behavior and “unreasonable”—our Scientology word for brutish bullying behavior is “unreasonable”, which is a huge several paragraph interesting story how the word unreasonable came to be something positive in the Hubbard crazy twisted world of redefining words in Hubbard’s mindset. (As a sidenote, Starkey is a 60s era “tech” person, who has for decades NOT brought himself up to date in tech delivery, so he’s for that reason, and this deserves a whole paper, the influence of Norman Starkey on David Miscavige — Maria who is Norman’s wife too, she’s a huge Shakespearean character that has huge influence on Norman and she’s the prima dona ass kisser to Miscavige — behind the scenes — my arguments will be these people who have for 30 odd years MOST feebly surrounded Miscavige, who he once might have absorbed the earlier Hubbard Apollo stories firsthand from, have influence on the fact that Miscavige thinks MORE in the Hubbard “admin” irrational hit and miss solutions that Hubbard threw out decade after decade, when all the while, the guts of Scientology, the “tech”, which is what the freezone and independent Scientologists today DO and treasure as the core practices of Scientology. Mitoff, the senior “tech” guy, was unfortunately, like everyone, been pushed into a subservient role (the exact fear of Hubbard’s, for which Hubbard speculated that Mayo, Mayo being Mitoff’s direct predecessor, Hubbard saw the scene that the admin top dogs might just screw with the Hubbard “tech” and that’s been the unfortunate BIG theme, this sentence is the big point,, internally, of the movement’s last 35 odd years; Mitoff was a yes man, and the Hubbard subject, the Hubbard self causing mess, if Hubbard giving the admin people the top role, OVER, the tech top man. And I suppose, in huge world history, a paper that comes to mind, is whether the Catholic church, administratively, had their admin people sorta get all anal and screw up the Priest and Nun good works core of the Christian Catholic church, type of similar thing.

    The big complaint, of the ex Scientologists, is that the admin assholes screw with the “tech” people, messing up the guts of the Scientology practice (which leads to the chat site experts, who’ve for years, shown that next comes the fact that the “tech” doesn’t deliver the spiritual superhuman goodies, so not only is the admin crap of Hubbard a big lose, but the “tech” crap from Hubbard, the stuff that is supposed to be the core of Scientology, well that’s a big dud also, oh well, that’s Hubbard for ya!)

    The movement’s NOT even been given this feeble admin people dumping and scewing the tech people assessment, like I did here above. The “tech” of Hubbard’s is what Hubbard thought (a whole other flight of fantasy that from 1950s critical book by Martin Gardner to the internal exited ex members, the “squirrels” have all pounded and critiqued Hubbard and found Hubbard’s tech to be on the one extreme “crank” pseudo-therapy, to being a smorgasbord mishmash of Hubbard borrowed therapy and other concepts from earlier people and from the co working early Dianeticists and early co practicing Scientologists who fed Hubbard their ideas and experimental ideas going one further on what Hubbard was doing himself).

    The current clique that the last 30 years has surrounded Miscavige have been MORE “admin” orented, and more Hubbard bad anecdotal stories behavior role model following, compared to this clique being “tech” minded and following Hubbard’s “saner” concepts (out of Hubbard’s clearly not to sane full load of ideas, but of the full load some ideas are saner).

    Hubbard’s “admin” writings were all Hubbard’s afterthoughts protective bureaucracy and organized religion and business setup writings, to keep this “tech” show going. The “tech” being the thousands of pseudo-therapy questions that the parishioners get asked, and must answer, and discover all the glorious insights and spiritual improvement they supposedly will get, if they just follow the pseudo-therapy ladder; it’s the admin that contains the most irrational Catch 22 totalitarian crap Scientology is so controversial for.

    Thus, back, to what I would gauge Scientology’s progress in following what Hubbard most wanted, he wanted practitioners, doing his stuff (correctly enough so victim patient parishioners were happy with what they got, at least).

    So active current numbers, which ex staff recently defected from the HGB (see above), are what we need, to actually see what official Scientology’s accomplishing, or not.

    The freezone/independent statistics have not been being gathered and shared, so outsiders can’t tell how big or small this supposedly growing independent movement is.

    The independents need a neutral statistics forum, where their stats can be shared. That would be novel, maybe Marty will report what he gets shared, so at years end, some facts from the freezone and independent Scientologists actions become public.

    That’d be progress.

    At least Scientologists all know about statistics and surveys, so as the years go forward, hopefully the freezone and independents evolve to share their honest statistics.

    Class 5, Class 6, Class 8 and Class 12 auditors and Case Supervisors (for each of these numbers also), being produced, and total cumulative numbers, and these cumulative numbers compared to PAST years, the last 40 years, that’s a very good bunch of substats to gauge the movement by.

    Chuck Beatty
    ex wannabe but never achieved Exec Strata (the think tank Hubbard left the movement) helper nerd
    I did my most productive Sea Org years in the admin training, and admin staff rules zones, 1975-2003
    866-XSEAORG
    see my facebook for my resume in the Sea Org

    • Okay, another “long range” insight, that must be considered.

      There is a many year delay, between the making of the “priests” and the effects of those created “priests.”

      Particularly in Scientology’s world.

      If the “priests” production statistics are rising, in otherwords, that means there will be MORE people in the months and years ahead, gotten suckered UP the full Hubbard “Bridge to Total Freedom”, meaning the movement will be able to sustain itself financially, and thus it is important to consider not just the total numbers in public surveys, but very important to find out how many “priests” the movement is making, and comparatively how many “priests” over the last couple decades, to see the movement’s behind the scenes trend (there will always be dupes willing to give the Hubbard pseudo therapy wacko stuff a try, I know, I get calls from the people who are hooked and I sometimes cannot talk them out of quitting, sheesh!! 866-XSEAORG toll free advice I try to get all callers to get OUT, but some will just NOT quit!).

      Because the practice of Scientology is the priest to parishioner sitting down, and doing the pseudo-therapy, in a much more industrial volume style (Hubbard expects 12 1/2 hours delivered to the parishioner weekly of pseudo-Hubbard-crank-Scientology-therapy, and Hubbard wants 25 hours delivered as optimum).

      Priests (auditors are the actual delivery pseudo-therapists, and the churches ALL have to have Case Supervisors qualified to oversee EVERY single pseudo-therapy session delivered by the auditor pseudo-therapists) are the actual meat and potatoes must have staff to deliver the Hubbard pseudo therapy and to make a church actually BE a church!!!!!

      The core core practice of Scientology churches, are the “priest” (auditor) to parishioner (preclear) pseudo therapy session!!!!

      I wish to hell, I could actually mind meld what the hell a Scientology church really IS! It’s so easily to deflect into all the accompanying details, and so easy to get lost in the sidetracks, all valid sidetracks, but so easy to divert attention off of what the hell Scientology “ministerial” activities are!

      As invalid, as pseudo-crank-quasi-therapy that Hubbard’s pseudo-therapy is, the misconception about Scientology, is rampant and Hubbard even gave up, for all his evil reasons, to focus and make clear what the hell his “church” was doing, and what it’s core practices are!

      Oh well, I feel eternally stirred to try futilely to bypass Hubbard’s inadequacies and try to clarity the core staff in a Scientology church, and define them in layman equivalent (although admittedly not justifiably nor ethically equivalent) terms.

      Chuck Beatty
      ex Sea Org, mainly staff administrative theory training expert (1975-2003)

  • Jonny Jacobsen

    “Tony, Tony, Tony, you don’t even– you’re glib…
    “No, you see.
    “Here’s the problem.
    “You don’t know the history of statisists. I do.
    “Deep cover, Tony: they’re deep cover.
    “Ghost protocol…”

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Loves!

  • sheepherder

    Very off -topic here; BUT! Guess what? In my small city, where the only cult most people know of is the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I found a “Premiere Edition” of ‘ASI Magazine’, dated 1997 !

    I was in a local charity shop, in the book room, and there was lrh’s, smug, sly, oleaginous face smugly beaming upon me, painted in oils (appropriately!) by one Peter Green (oh, maybe it’s acrylics – never mind) But what a score! I paid a whole buck!

    Now what do i do with it: send it to someone I dislike intensely; burn it at the stake; put it on EBay?

    Any suggestions? (If anyone wants it, we can talk. And no, I won’t be sending it because I don’t like you…)

    BTW, can one of you, my friends, explain WHY ANYONE could behold the unspeakably loathsome expression on that man’s face and not run screaming?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Shit serious? Put it on EBAy…
      You will probably double or even triple yer money!

      • sheepherder

        It’s headed for the recycle bin – I don’t even want the ashes polluting my compost . I’d happily send it to anyone who wants it, if I knew how and where. After Christmas; things are a little fraught around here now.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I WANT IT!.
          Yeah, I am a freak..dont throw it out…Its an Evil History…Like Jimmy Page owning Crowleys house!
          I also collect bones. Don’t ask.
          You on rodeo?
          Fuckin SWEET!

          • sheepherder

            If you’re serious, tell me how to contact you privately. I’m pretty ignorant with computers.

            However, to win this free prize, first you have to explain to me how the poor fools deal with that face – my God, is this the face of a good person? Would you buy a car from him? It’s not that he’s ugly – the world is full of people whose physical features are not aesthetic, but because they look good and kind, it doesn’t matter. I can’t understand how the kids can miss that expression! He looks like a caricature of the Devil. And seemed to be doing it deliberately.
            You’d think they’d tweak those huge pics and bronze busts to at least make him look noble and benevolent, instead of a smarmy creep . Is this another superpower – to be unable to recognize evil when it holds up a sign?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              sheepherder….i could tell you a story alright..but be careful what you wish for…Honestly.
              I am am a Middle aged broad who had a bit of a history with this red headed jackass that I cannot really explain easily….Lets just say….First, he is UGLY…but That has nothing to do with HIM
              Yeah, he was not asthetically pleasing..but he has a huge power i cannot explain…
              A wierd and NOT WONDERFUL power…But a Huge POWER anyway..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              He had the same gift of fucking shitstream gab that I have……kinda funny huh…

            • sheepherder

              Go ahead; you’ll only get sympathy here. And I’m sure it’s quite a tale.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              One day!

            • villagedianne

              Please tell!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              BurytheNuts@Gmail.com….
              Hopefully that will work..
              If not that try Burythenuts2@gmail.com

  • Anononyourside

    How many members of the CoS were tasked with typing “what is Scientology?” into the Google search engine? How many advertising dollars does the CoS give Google to keep its name at the top of every “Scientology” search? Did Google disclaim any self-interest in making “what is Scientology?” number two on its list?

  • FistOfXenu

    “That’s a growth rate of 64 new people each year in a country of 56.1 million people. This planet will be cleared in no time!”

    I really hate to rain on anybody’s parade here. But can we agree that even now, not all $cientologists are clear? Why should we think they’ll do any better in the future?

    And then if we forget about “clear” the way they use it now and go back to how LRH defined it in the beginning, we end up saying “show me a clear!” Just one. As long as they keep doing what they’re doing, no matter how many or few members they have they won’t be clearing any planets any time soon.

    Just another point of view.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I have known a few “Clears” Fist and you know what I notice about them?
      They ain’t clear of shit? In fact, some of these “Clears” have more “issues” than a “preclear” (Or a normal motherfucker in laymans language).
      They are no different than the rest of us.
      Clear my ASS!
      LRH says we are all trying to survive….right?
      But then he wants to “Clear” the reactive mind.
      The “reactive” mind is the mind that saves your ass when danger comes your way.
      It is such an endless circle jerk.

      • Sherbet

        That’s what I like about you, BTN. There’s never any mistaking what you mean — clear and simple. You tell it like it is, as we fossils used to say in the swingin’ 60s. Fist bump for ya.

  • The survey only lists over 400 Scientologists for Sussex area.

    That cannot be correct, since the Sea Org staff at Saint Hill, East Grinstead, Sussex, number a couple hundred, and then the public living in East Grinstead have got to total together with the Saint Hill Sea Org staff well over what this survey lists.

    So, I’d say at least a couple hundred more for the UK! LOL

  • Ivan Mapother

    When we do hear from Karin Pouw, she will tell us the Jedi numbers are way overstated. Since the survey, Walt Disney has taken over the Star Wars franchise and thousands of self-respecting Jedi Masters will not serve a mouse. They will turn to the dark side and L. Ron Hubbard will be waiting for them. Before they do, let it be known that Mickey Mouse is four inches taller the David Miscavige and can slap harder.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Oooooohh.. You redecorated the bunker.. Nice..

  • Xenu’sAdvocate

    Just out of curiosity:

    (a) Wouldn’t the figure of 2,418 include not only COS members but freezoners or indie scientologists? According to the survey site

    “the question (‘What is your religion?’) asks about religious affiliation, that is how we connect or identify with a religion, irrespective of actual practise or belief. Religion is a many sided concept and there are other aspects of religion such as religious belief, religious practice or belonging which are not covered in this analysis2.”

    The wording suggest to me at least that such ‘denominational distinctions’, even if explicitly indicated by those surveyed, would be intentionally ignored when compiling the data. If so, then,

    (b) How strong is the indie/freezone movement in the UK?

    • jensting

      Good point! I get the feeling that quite a few indies would be rather keen to put in “scientology” – seeing how they think that they’re representing the genuine, not substituted by David Miscavige – original super golden platinum 110% standard tech!

  • Snuzey

    My first thought when I read 2,418 was how many of these listed themselves as Scientologists but who are not a part of the Church of Sci? I can tell you I found about 6-10 in my (pretty big) city and none are part of the Church! So you can knock that off the total! I’m surprised there is actually that many. It will be that 90% of that total will be based in London/East Grinstead, where they trucked a load in from overseas for 3 months prior to the census being taken. Apart from poor old George who is probably still thinking everyone is stuck in an electronic incident, it really does not feature in the UK. Everyone I know just thinks its a whacky cult in Hollywood!

  • Django

    A figure of 1,781 in 2001 vs. 2,418 in 2011 could be because Scientology let a few more victims actually answer the Census question, just to up their stats. Just sayin’…..

  • 1subgenius

    And yet allegedly 1,600 people attended the grand opening of a new Scientology store in Seattle last month.

    http://seattle.curbed.com/archives/2012/12/church-of-scientology-opens-up-shop-in-queen-anne.php