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With Leah Remini Under Attack on Twitter, TV Actor Christian Stolte Was a First Responder

Christian_StolteFor several days after the news of Leah Remini’s departure from Scientology broke, we watched other Scientology celebrities use Twitter to go on the attack.

But then, we noticed that another member of Hollywood was going against the grain. Christian Stolte is a familiar face for fans of Prison Break and Chicago Fire, and over several days, the clever actor skewered Scientology and the people who have been criticizing Remini.

And now that we’ve talked to him, we’ve learned he’s a complete riot.

We first noticed his online wit when we saw how he answered a plaintive cry by Scientologist actor Bodhi Elfman (husband to Jenna Elfman).

After several days of sniping aimed at Leah Remini and things heating up on both sides, Elfman attempted to calm things down with this appeal to religious tolerance. But Stolte gave him a reply he probably wasn’t expecting…


That got us to looking through Stolte’s feed, and we found this bon mot…


And when Jim Meskimen (son of Marion Ross, longtime Scientologist, and current competitor on America’s Got Talent) added an attagirl to Kirstie Alley’s jab that we interpreted as a swipe at Remini, Stolte jumped on it…


And one more, just for the laughs…


It turns out that Stolte is a longtime reader of The Underground Bunker, and he’s commented from time to time, but under an identity that we’re not going to reveal.

He spoke to us from Chicago, where the filming for the second season of Chicago Fire has just begun, but he made it very clear that he was speaking only for himself and not “any producers, creators, sponsors, viewers, or anyone who employs me or has ever employed me.”

After that thorough disclaimer, we got down to business.

What do you think about Leah Remini’s defection — not only that she’s left, but the way she’s left, reportedly with concerns about Shelly Miscavige, “disconnection,” interrogations, and the treatment of Sea Org workers?

Knowing nothing more about this subject than any of your other readers, Leah Remini’s public defection seems to have an authenticity to it that I find encouraging. Like the respective journeys of Paul Haggis, and Jason Beghe, and the Fagens (and others in increasing numbers), and like those poor souls who were given the gift of Scientology from their sorrily indoctrinated parents, like Astra Woodcraft and Jenna Miscavige, and (as I recall) the Headleys, Leah Remini seemed to have reached a point in the road — or “up” that imaginary bridge — where her basic sense of human dignity somehow overpowered all the intricate control mechanisms of the cult. If I’m right about that, then I have to say I like the cut of her jib.

Listen, any human being walks away from Scientology, that’s a good thing. But not every exit merits such fanfare. Some people leave after decades-long careers of doing the church’s dirtiest dirty work, and expect to be embraced by the world outside without the slightest attempt at making amends for their crimes. People who should at the very least be testifying against the church, against Miscavige, even where such testimony incriminates themselves.

Is Scientology losing influence in the movie and television industries?

I don’t think I’m in a position to answer that one. I’ve never been privileged to that kind of inside-showbiz power-broker scuttlebutt. It sure seems the church is losing influence in the world in general, so it might be fair to assume they’re currently sliding towards abject irrelevance in that realm as well. Here I confess to a wishful bias, so my assumption is not all that objective.

Do you have any interesting experiences working with Scientologist actors?

The only person that springs to mind is Giovanni Ribisi. I didn’t get to know him well, but “working together” in this case involved hanging out in the same cluster of actors a couple-few times, including one long night that stretched into morning. In my experience, he was extraordinarily kind, and unassuming, and just generally a smart and charming and likable fellow. He is not the enemy.

Have you shared with fellow Chicago Fire actor and ex-church member Jason Beghe your feelings about Scientology?

I’ve been lucky to have had a few conversations with Jason, but we’ve barely spoken about Scientology at all. There are — thankfully — other things to talk about, and he’s an interesting man. But he knows how I feel about it. I contacted him on Facebook two or three years ago. Gave him a thumbnail sketch of my situation vis-à-vis Scientology, and thanked him for putting himself on the front lines with that Mark Bunker interview. Seriously, I’d never seen anything like it. Commanding. Undeniable. That same unflinching integrity he brings to the table as an actor. I admire the hell out of him.

Are you concerned, being as vocal as you were the other day, that it might negatively affect your career?

See, here’s the interesting thing. My friction with this cult goes back almost two decades. Through those years, the idea that my “career” is something anybody would bother to “ruin” has not really been a concern of mine. But I do know they’ll do what they can to ruin your life. I think that always tempered me somewhat, because I had more at stake back then. Even then, though, I reasoned you’d have to be a pretty big target for them to bother with you; they’d have to perceive you as a significant threat. I don’t think I’ve ever qualified.

Flash forward to 2013 — At this point in the game, their vendetta machine has become kind of a joke, hasn’t it? I don’t find myself worried about it much. With all that’s on their plate these days, I don’t imagine them having a lot of venom to spare for me. They’re pretty predictable, though, aren’t they? If they were to address my appearance here at all, I’d be brushed aside with an “Oh, he’s just another desperate D-list actor, looking for attention.” As if that’s how show-business works.

Could it, though, have some negative effect on my career? I really don’t know. I suppose if some action were ever taken against me because of my views, it could take the form of a single phone call I never even hear about. “Don’t hire this guy – he’s trouble. He’s an alcoholic. A junkie. A prostitute. A cannibal. He once enslaved a population.” I’m not saying that kind of “black PR” skullduggery couldn’t happen. But if I’m confronted point-blank, I’ll have no problem standing up for my opinions.

And I’m certainly not afraid of these fumbling buffoons. The big scary vindictive church is toothless, dull-witted and comically out of touch with contemporary society. I won’t apologize for having a critical view of this evil cult. My “opinion” of Scientology can’t be dismissed, because it isn’t even an opinion. It’s a massive compilation of documented crimes.

Leah Remini, we hear, is still taking it hard that she’s been abandoned by so many former friends. If you could say something to Leah, what would you tell her?

I’m sure it’s painful and confusing to be treated so unfairly by “the most ethical people on the planet.” I don’t imagine this is an easy transition for anybody. In fact, by Hubbard’s design, leaving Scientology is meant to be a form of psychological torture. It is meant to take a terrible toll on you. But by now it must have occurred to you that all this ugly, punitive, juvenile behavior just confirms your worst suspicions about them – that this “church” doesn’t care about you, and they never did. That for all their public denial, the practice of Disconnection remains a cornerstone of Scientology. And that in fact, this organization’s happy-crappy propaganda misrepresents virtually every aspect of their operation.

So you’ve been lied to by these people, Leah, on a daily basis, for decades. It must be staggering to have to process a truth like that. But when the dust settles, there’s no doubt you’ll come out of this a happier, healthier, saner person. No longer will your relationships be controlled and monitored by a malignant overseer. No more sec-checks. No more shelling out your hard-earned cash for yet another big empty building. Your life belongs to you now. And there’s a whole world out here that thinks what you’ve done is pretty great.

We looked around online and found this segment of Stolte talking about his Chicago Fire character, Randy “Mouch” McHolland. Now you have even more reason to tune in, Bunkerites.


Now, back to our regular weekly feature, Sunday Funnies, when we look at the wacky stuff sent in by our tipsters.


Cute slogan. But for a Scientology publication, maybe a bit too Orwellian…


Scientology opened its Portland Ideal Org just in time — check out these stats!


Marc Headley is having too much fun — he had a staffer at the Boston Org take this shot of him when he was in town this week visiting!



Posted by Tony Ortega on July 28, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at


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  • Lark Smith

    Just in “We stand united,” Leah told In Touch about her family, who have all left Scientology. “I believe people should be able to question things, and I believe you should value family and friendships and hold those close.”

    • Ruby

      Leah is Classy…yes, with a capital “C”.

    • Liger

      That article also mentions Kirstie Alley being upset with Leah. They have disqus for their comment section- man the harpoons!

    • Richie

      If I’m not mistaken this is her first public statement since leaving, aside from thanking fans for support. Looks like she’s ramping up for battle.

      • Lark Smith

        Questioning things is always a good start.

      • Robert Eckert

        It does not appear that this was intended as a public statement. There isn’t anything in the brief article indicating who interviewed her, and so I would take it that she didn’t grant an interview at all, but rather, a friend of hers was willing to relay some things Leah has said, on condition of anonymity (and perhaps a little money?)

    • SP ‘Onage

      “We stand united,” it beats the clam song, “We stand tall.” lol

      • Observer

        Especially when “We Stand Tall” is sung by someone who is demonstrably the opposite of tall.

        • shasha40

          Vertically Challenged …? Mentally too.

          • Nevermore

            And morally.

    • Van Allen BLT

      Looks like the lone down-voter just showed up over there! lol

    • Phil McKraken

      Simply put, Leah Remini’s basic values are diametrically opposed by Scientology scripture and practice. Family and friendships first, or in other words, go suck it with your greatest number of dynamics.

  • Jgg2012

    When your fellow Hollywood people are attacking you, you know that you are losing the PR battle. 20 years ago people would have been saying “leave Kirstie and Bodhi alone”.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Slightly OT, but I was reading about a place called the Courseroom that Indy folks rave about over at Rinder’s. Since the Indy crowd is claiming their big positive spin is getting back to standard TECH, do they do OT3? I mean, it seems as if many Indy’s fail to mention OT3 when praising other steps along the bridge. It seems like an embarrassment to them. But if they are doing 100% standard, by-the-book TECH, they’d have to offer this course, right? OR, are most Indys already past that point on their bridge, have quaffed of that kool-aid and pushed it out their rear end a long time ago to somewhere less inconvenient than their current truth?

    • Espiando

      I know that Les’s place and Dror Center offer up to OTV, so, yeah, you can get OTIII in the Indie scene. Maybe we just haven’t had enough Indies get that far up the Bridge yet, and those that have have already done serious ass-pushes.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Is there some kind of a summary of OT levels? In wog terms, what is the lesson of each one? Not the Hubbard/Scio malarkey, but how we would summarize each level.

        • Espiando

          Let’s see if I can still speak enough Scilon to translate from the Bridge chart:

          OTI: Find out how much better you are than wogs, and get to see the universe in ways that normally require hallucinogens.

          OTII: Find out what an insufferable prick you were in your past lives.

          OTIII: XENU XENU XENU. And once you’ve accepted that bullshit, nothing will surprise you anymore. I went through my own personal OTIII when I was inspecting a slaughterhouse and found a guy having sex with a goat. After that…

          OTIV: You thought the Purif got rid of all your nasty little drug habits. Nope. You were a druggie in all of your past lives. Time to clear that up too.

          OTV: You thought you got rid of Dianetics when you went Clear. Nope. Ron has a whole new set of Dianetics bullshit for you to learn. Here’s where you do those with an auditor.

          OTVI: Now you do the whole new set of Dianetics bullshit on your own.

          OTVII: Space cooties. You got ’em. You got lots of ’em. Time to use the whole new set of Dianetics bullshit to get rid of them. And every six months, you get to go down to Flag and tell them every single thing you found out about your space cooties, and whether that information can jeopardize The Last Hope For This Planet.

          OTVIII: You know the space cooties you got rid of? You made them all up. That’s why we have you on board a ship that most likely will give you mesothelioma and/or pick a cancer, any cancer. If you weren’t on board a ship, you’d likely strangle the twenty people nearest to you. Besides, Scientology reserves the privilege of cold-blooded murder to Narconon staff, auditors at Flag, and The Dark Lord Chuckles The Silly Piggy.

          I think I’m right.

          • coonellie

            Can I borrow this, but take out the swear words? I don’t mind them, but the person I want to show this to might. I’d credit you (it’s not for publication, I’d email it to a friend).

            • Espiando

              Sure, no problem. The more, the merrier.

            • coonellie

              Many thanks!

          • BananaSplits8

            Was reading along wondering how someone like John Allender passed any of those levels. Then I read OTVIII (a level, I believe, attained by M. Allender) and softly snickered to myself.

          • Lark Smith

            LOL, LOL, LOL -I learn so much here ..and it was very wog friendly. I hope the goat is okay.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            And that’s exactly what kills me about OT7/OT8. Seems like a big joke on LRH’s part. It’s like Hubbard was playing with them, seeing just how far he could push the boundaries and still have people accept it all. What could possibly be the rationale for “you’ve got space alien souls infesting you…nah, just kidding, you mocked it all up.” I can’t imagine what he’d have come up with in higher levels.

          • shasha40

            Bahahahahaha ! Broken down so splendidly, thank you !

          • Andrew Robertson

            There’s quite a long and thoughtful essay by Stacy Brooks giving her perspective on auditing and the OT levels here:



            To my great dismay, I discovered that the rest of the Bridge to Total Freedom [OT 4 – OT8]
            was all about BTs, BTs, and more BTs.



            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Thanks for the link. Reading now.

          • Couch_Incident

            Classic stuff Espiando.

          • Phil McKraken

            That’s the first time I’ve seen OT levels described with such specificity. Thank you for that. Now, I’m going to go to the can and lose my lunch.

            And, as the saying goes… Scientology: It’s always worse than you thought.

        • Captain Howdy

          Top 8 Levels of Scientology

          OT I [Transcript]

          OT I comes after completing OT eligibility and OT preps (qv), this
          consists of walking about and counting people until one has a “win”, and
          similar god-like procedures. EP (End Phenomena) is to extrovert a
          being, and bring about an awareness of himself in relation to others and
          the physical universe. Also called OT (Operating Thetan) orientation.
          OT I has had various incarnations over the years

          “This Solo-audited level is the first step
          a Clear takes toward full OT abilities, and that first step is a fresh
          causative OT viewpoint of the MEST universe and other beings.”

          OT II

          OT II consists of hundreds of boring “implants” written in Hubbard’s
          hand like “to be or not to be”, followed by “spotting the light” that
          accompanied the “implants.” EP (End Phenomena; the final result of
          processing “therapy”) is rehabilitation of intention and ability to
          project intention. With an EP like that, it can’t fail! “A series of
          processes directed at whole track implant materials (GPMs) dealing with
          dichotomies and binary thinking. Available at Advanced Organizations and
          higher.” – Jonathon Barbera.

          “By confronting hidden areas of one’s existence on the whole track,
          vast amounts of energy and attention are released. Those on this
          Solo-audited level experience a resurgence of self-determinism and
          native ability. OT II unlocks the aberrative factors on the whole track
          that have allowed the thetan to lose his innate freedom and ability and
          one achieves the ability to confront the whole track.”

          OT III: The Wall of Fire [Partial Transcript]

          OT III, also called “The Wall of Fire”. Deals with Incident 2, Xenu,
          the evil galactic overlord, and the H bombs on Hawaii 76 million years
          ago. Hubbard said that anyone who was exposed to this level casually
          would “freewheel” through it, become a chronic insomniac, then get sick
          and die. “Locating and auditing of body thetans on Incident I (first
          incident in MEST universe) and Incident II (incident which caused the
          degradation of these beings into body thetans and clusters as caused by
          Xenu approximately seventy-five million years ago). Emphasis on this
          level is ridding the pre-OT of body thetans which are conscious enough
          to respond to the auditing. Available at Advanced Organizations and
          higher. Partially replaced by New OT V.” – Jonathon Barbera

          “This Solo-audited level goes through what is called the “Wall of
          Fire” that surrounds a previously impenetrable whole track mystery. What
          prevents a being from being himself? This level answers that question.
          Once complete, a being is free of the whole track overwhelm that has
          trapped him. Here he confronts and eradicates the fourth dynamic engram
          that has plagued this universe for millennia.”

          The Clear learns about the catastrophic event that placed body
          thetans on Earth and deprived them of their operating abilities. The
          Clear is trained to audit the thetans inhabiting his or her own body
          regarding this incident.

          OT IV: OT Drug Rundown

          OT IV; the Operating Thetan drug rundown. New OT IV gets rid of the
          effects of taking drugs in past lifetimes for a few thousand dollars.
          You should really see this land in FLA; it is near Clearwater…
          “Mocking-up and unmocking implants from Clearing Course in order to
          prevent future implanting plus the handling and rehabilitation of past
          auditing. Product was supposed to be an OT Exterior. Replaced by New OT
          IV: handles the effects of drugs, medicine, and alcohol by addressing
          BTs stuck to/in drugs, medicine, and alcohol incidents. Audited by Class
          VIII auditors at Advanced Organizations and higher.” – Jonathon

          “This level handles the hidden problems and stops in a being’s
          universe caused by the effects of drugs and poisons on the whole track.
          This is the final polish that rids one of any last vestige of the
          effects of drugs on the spirit. Ministered at Advanced Organizations or
          Flag. Approximately 12 1/2 to 25 hours.”

          The Clear audits his or her body thetans for drug-related problems.

          OT V: New Era Dianetics for OTs

          OT V; getting rid of the Body Thetans! EP (End Phenomena) is cause
          over life. Should be cause over your debt; you’ll need it. New OT 5
          starts what is call New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans, NED for OTs
          or NOTS, reputed to be for removing BTs (Body Thetans; evil spirit
          infestations) that didn’t respond on OT3. Physical universe
          familiarization, for only a few ‘thou, was a part of old OT V. “A series
          of drills directed at the Pre-OT’s handling of, and relationship to,
          MEST. Drills were to be done exterior. Replaced by New OT V: A series of
          steps directed at clearing the Pre-OTs body of body thetans with some
          attention on body thetans which are causing particular conditions
          (including health conditions, rock slams caused by the evil intentions
          of body thetans, PTSness caused by suppressive body thetans, etc.)
          Audited by Class IX auditors at Advanced Organizations and higher. 55
          HCOBs.” – Jonathon Barbera.

          “The Second Wall of Fire consists of 26 separate rundowns and has
          been described as dealing with “living lightning, the very stuff of life
          itself.” This level addresses the last aspects of one’s case that can
          prevent him from achieving total freedom on all dynamics. An audited
          level ministered at Advanced Organizations or Flag. Approximately 50

          The Clear learns that thetans inhabit everything in the MEST
          universe. Through auditing, the Clear contacts and identifies as many
          thetans as possible for further action.

          OT VI: Hubbard Solo New Era Dianetics for OTs (Solo NOTs) Auditing Course

          OT 6 teaches the Pre-OT, to do NOTs, New Era Dianetics for Operating
          Thetans, solo. OT VI is very expensive; it is easy to run up a $40,000
          bill to get ready for the next step, OT VII. OT ability drills for a few
          ‘thou more constituted old OT VI. “Drills dealing with exteriorization,
          emotions, and sensations. The drills were supposed to be done exterior.
          Replaced by New OT VI: A course which trains the Pre-OT on how to solo
          audit Solo NOTs. Available at FSO (Flag). 14 HCOBs.” – Jonathon Barbera.

          “The training one receives before starting to solo audit on New OT
          VII is so powerful that it actually constitutes an entire OT level. On
          Solo NOTs one is dealing with complexities intended to crush one’s true
          power and abilities as a thetan. Solo NOTs auditors acquire a wide range
          of auditing skills to handle the vast phenomena that can occur on OT
          VIII. Approximately 3-4 weeks with the new Solo Auditor Course done.”

          The Clear receives further training to audit the body thetans identified during OT V.

          OT VII: Hubbard Solo New Era Dianetics for OTs Auditing

          On OT VII one does NOTS, New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans,
          solo. New OT VII is cheaper than New OT V, as only the six month C/S’ing
          and the final certainly check are paid for and the main work is left to
          the mark himself. Old OT VII was projection of intention and polish up
          for a few more ‘thou…and you thought shouting was all you needed to
          project your intention. “A series of processes, drills, and training
          steps directed at intention. Replaced by New OT VII: the purpose of this
          level is the further ridding of body thetans. Done at FSO (Flag) and at
          home for two to three years. Product is an OT.” – Jonathon Barbera.

          “On New OT VII one solo audits at home daily. This is a lengthy
          level, requiring a considerable amount of time to complete. It is the
          final pre-OT level, and culminates in attainment of the state of CAUSE
          OVER LIFE.”

          The Clear audits all previously identified thetans until they “blow,”
          or detach from the Clear. As noted in the official description, the OT
          VII level can take many years to complete.

          OT VIII: Truth Revealed

          OT VIII is the top of the current Grade Chart – OT IX won’t be
          released until all the present Orgs are the size of the old Saint Hill
          Organization in East Grinstead, England, in the ’60s – not until hell
          freezes over, in other words. The Bridge, or Gradation Chart of Human
          Awareness and Abilities, tops out at OT 15, in some versions, although
          information is sketchy for the last few. OT 8 is a big expensive
          mystery, only delivered on the newspeak-named Scientology cruiseliner
          “Freewinds” out on the Caribbean. People who have completed this level
          have said that it is a review of all of the person’s auditing and a
          verification/ nullification of discoveries the person has made about
          himself, that it is Route 1 and 2 from the Creation of Human ability
          book, that it involves looking into your past auditing folders in order
          to spot any moments where you were being somebody else, e.g. past life
          identities, which you have discovered on Int Rundown or NED and any body
          thetans you have unleashed on OT III, OT IV, OT V, OT VI, OT VII and on
          Lists L10, L11 and L12, then a meter check to see if these identities
          are right or wrong items. At the end of this new process (New OT VIII),
          you will have recovered all of your own time track, supposedly. Two
          slightly different sets of the complete process have been posted to
          alt.religion.scientology, allegedly from people who have finished the
          level on the Freewinds. These procedures do indeed involved the 8th
          dynamic (god), as well as other steps, including material from A History
          of Man.

          “This Solo-audited level addresses the primary cause of amnesia on
          the whole track and lets one see the truth of his own existence. This is
          the first actual OT level and brings about a resurgence of power and
          native abilities for the being himself. This may be done at the Flag
          Ship Service Organization only.” Graduation from this level requires a
          $100,000 payment.

          Unreleased OTs
          OT IX, (Orders of Magnitude). Prerequisites imply more implant
          material on this level. The word “orders” may merely suggest levels or
          may possibly indicate commands for the OT to perform as a Scientologist.
          – Jonathon Barbera.

          OT X, (Character). Rumors have suggested that this level produces whole track recall. – Jonathon Barbera.

          • q-bird

            holy crap!

            thanks for that rundown Capt.

    • Van Allen BLT

      I like the Indies, because the Indies want to destroy Miscavige and the corporate cult. They have the same interests as we do. And they help Tony. I loathe their admiration of LRH, but he’s dead, so he can’t abuse anyone.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Yeah sure, a common enemy and all that. Problem is, where does the harmless, {self-help} stop and the dangerous woowoo begin? I see many Indys support their experiences with the Purification Rundown. In my book, that’s dangerous woowoo.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Indies! Spits!
          Shit still stinks..cuz it is still SHIT!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            You’re hot when you spit! 😉

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Thanks buddy!
              Of course you have watched my head spin around in person…
              So extra thanks! Lol

        • shasha40

          Yeah, woowoo is woowoo . And the Pur-rif is just that, woowoo. I wonder how many have almost died or died doing that Bogus shit ?

          • Van Allen BLT

            That’s a valid question, and you should probably have the answer for it before you make such a sweeping statement. Would you wager that indies have harmed enough people with purif to switch our focus away from the corporate cult? I haven’t seen any evidence of this, but perhaps you are a journalist?

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Here’s the thing though Van Allen, IF the Indies are still using the Purif and the Dreck(TM to the other fist) it’s still dangerous. Always was, always will be. And the indies still adhere to Hubtard’s teachings, which in the end will only end up with a clone of Scamotology. It should not be encouraged. The man was nothing but a liar when it came to just about EVERYTHING he did in his life.

            • shasha40

              Evidence of what ? That the purification rundown is not medically sound?I am not a journalist, just a commentator voicing my opinion. I believe that is what this forum is for . Show me some evidence to refute what I’ve said, from a legit medical establishment , not lrh or a Scientologist. I happen to be in the medical profession and have never learned that via long stays in a sauna you can sweat out drugs. Drugs have a half life and will be expelled by the body accordingly. Too much Niacin and other vitamins can be very detrimental to the body and high doses should only be given under the care of a physician. Is there an MD supervising these pur rif ‘s ? Didn’t think so.

        • Van Allen BLT

          I agree (note my use of the word “loathe”), however I’m not aware of any documented harm from the Indies, and I’m not concerned with hypotheticals.

          From today’s post: “my opinion isn’t an opinion, It’s a massive compilation of documented crimes.” I like that a lot. It just doesn’t apply to the indies.

          • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

            A lot of people weren’t aware of the abuse in Scamotology either. Because no one was reporting it until they’d gotten out and had time to de-compress. I believe the Indie scene is just as dangerous as Scientology itself.

            • Van Allen BLT

              But that’s hypothetical, you have to admit. And I don’t do hypothetical. Also, I have to register a complaint with your statement that it is “just as dangerous as Scientology.” That one sets my OSA hairs tingling.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              It is, and I’m not saying it happens, but I still wouldn’t trust any of them to not get the same idea that Hubtard and later McSavage had about it as an organisation.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Well you need to get your Spidey Sense checked dude. There is no way in Hell I would ever set foot into a Scamotology center. Ever. No way, no how. I’m a Jedi.

          • ThetaBara

            The indies lack the ironclad corporate structure of the Official Cult. Mostly, however, they make it possible for people to realize that they don’t HAVE to stick with the Official Cult. It is a process, getting socialized back into the outside world. I have nothing but love for the exes and the indies as it has to be a tough row to hoe and I want to support them in growing out of it.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I do not agree that LRH, even dead, cannot abuse anyone. His influence, in any form, fosters abuse. The indies cannot understand this, and that is their sorrow.

  • SP ‘Onage

    Thank you, Christian Stolte for being openly critical of the cult and making the decision to go public.

    I hope more actors come forward and use their fame to illuminate what scientology wants to keep hidden, that they do disconnect family and friends, that they do control and monitor their parishioners with outright lies and fear tactics. These are not the “the most ethical people on the planet” and Leah’s stunning departure validated this.

    Glad to hear you have been anonymously posting at the Bunker. 😉

  • Proud to be an SP

    Off topic -Did y’all see this from David Edgar Love?
    Scientology Cult of Confusion documentary filming next week with Bert Leahy, Colin Henderson, and David Love filming August 5-17 starting in Oklahoma.

  • BananaSplits8

    “All of a sudden I realized that I was not playing any kind of game, just observing.” John Kapor

    To speak in such terms, as if “playing a game” could possibly be acceptable as spiritual vernacular speaks volumes of Hubbard’s pushing his followers’ credulity. Of course the ultimate prize was the day he said he had a bridge to sell…

    • Van Allen BLT

      Hubbard was of course obsessed with “playing games” and peddled this as the highest form of human expression. What he didn’t let on was that the “game” was hypnotism, and to play it meant the victim would shut down their critical thinking capacity, and eventually become a RonBot. What a fun game! {}

    • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

      THAT is exactly what I have been thinking ever since I heard about the “Bridge to Total Freedom.”

      I know a lot of people that get sucked into Scamotology are supposed to be intelligent people, but c’mon. Seriously?

      • ThetaBara

        Intelligent people can still be manipulated, especially emotionally. These assholes specialize in that.

        • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

          I think the trick with it is to make it seem like it’s an extremely intelligent idea by using big, strange sounding words that an intelligent mind would want to make sense of. What I don’t understand is how those same intelligent people seem to think that they actually will end up understanding it if they stick with it long enough, making it even harder to come to terms with the fact that it is all bullshit. And no one likes to admit they’ve been had.

          • ThetaBara

            The crazy vocabulary (and redefining perfectly good existing words to mean other things) is part of the mental restructuring. I am very resistant to jargon these days, because it sets my bullshitness detectors off.
            I think that the more weird jargon used, the harder it is to actually have havingness of understandingness of what is actually being said. Some people probably have no idea what they’re even hearing, but they go along because otherwise bad things happen. And yeah, no one wants to admit they’ve been had (another reason why the indies exist) or that they bought a load of bullshitness. Not to mention having all their friends dump them over something they don’t really even understand in the first place!

    • Interested

      I don’t know if you know this but ages ago the British government sold a bridge to an American. It was London bridge. He thought it was the famous tower bridge But It was nothing more than a simple stone bridge. conned oh yeah!

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Tony, by the way, your titles for your blogs, are really talented titles, days later, I see the clever ambiguities of some of them!

    PS: PEOPLE don’t forget, to donate to Tony via Paypal, Lawyer, old guard veteran ARS critic Scott Pilutik (of the old guard lawyer group on ARS, collects and runs Tony’s Paypal collection.) I don’t promote anyone else, but Tony O! Thankyou Scott!

    PPS: In Scientology critics history, the lawyer long term critics (Deanna, Rob, and Scott, I might have missed others), kept the 1990s smarty pants crowd of Scientology critics thinking legal and “in futures.” (ARS vintage, critics, so many great ones, I someday will have to do a summary of all the wisdom they left on ARS; and a study of the factions and groups, there being some of the 1990s vintage ex member biggies, Erlich, Armstrong, Lerma, even Mayo posted on ARS, and so many memorable comments and humor.)

    Tony, that a media talented person, you that is, is even riding daily on top of Scientology, is truly historical, I have no doubts this is unique in the history of the internet and controversial subjects, this niche into which you are doing the good fight!

    Thankyou Tony! (and Jonny Jacobsen too, he’s in a similar place, helping as a professional media person, helping us all who form this crowd of interested citizens, regarding a subject that deserves taming and more).
    one of those half dozen budding lawyers in the late 1990s who took an interest in Scientology’s craziness, Scott handles the payments people pay via PayPal, he’s a trustworthy wog “old guard”, smarty pants) I’m poor, but Tony is fricking worth all he’s doing!!!!, and thankyou Scott Pilutik and all the earlier 1990s generation old guard critics!! Never in Scientology’s 60 years, have we had a Tony Ortega, and who knows what Tony’ll be doing when he’s done with his book in a few years! I’m always thinking ahead, since I’m in this Scientology watch game for the long haul! Love you Tony, and love you Scott P, and all the Old Guard cronies).

    • Van Allen BLT

      This may sound naive, but is ARS archived? I don’t use newsgroups/ usenet, but I presume all those old posts are still “out there” for a curious cult watcher to read?

  • Laura Dieckman

    “I’m sure it’s painful and confusing to be treated so unfairly by “the most ethical people on the planet.” I don’t imagine this is an easy transition for anybody. In fact, by Hubbard’s design, leaving Scientology is meant to be a form of psychological torture. It is meant to take a terrible toll on you.”

    So so true. I am pleasantly surprised that this recognized by someone entirely outside of Scn.

    • sugarplumfairy

      You, Tony and many others have taught us well..

    • pronoia

      Waving at Laura!!! So nice to see you and hope you are well and happy.

      • aquaclara

        Waving along with you!

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    What a great shot of a happy Marc Headley. Christian Stolte got it right, Marc was dragged into the cult by, primarily, his mother. Marc’s book “Blown for Good,” like Jenna’s book, is hard to read, because these are stories about very real, very bad child abuse. Although Leah’s family has stayed together and clearly love each other, Leah and her sister were also abused as children by the cult. According to Nicole, they went hungry, unschooled, and were forced to work long hours, as children. I hope Leah steps forward to tell her story soon.

    In the first part of his book, Marc’s voice is that of the child-Marc who doesn’t undertand why his childhood had gone from normal to living in squalor with no Christmas presents. Marc was cut adrift at 13, like Jenna and other children who have lived to tell their stories. Marc’s voice changes as he tells his story, from being homeless at 13 , to almost punching Miscavige back after being beaten by him (Miscavige yells “he almost hit him, did you see that?” I don’t know if Miscavige squealed this, but it sounds like it), to spending 15 years with 5 minute meals, suffering Miscavige’s sadistic punishments, and little or no sleep, to escaping, and finally to getting Claire out.

    The Underground Bunker has consistently, and often long before any other media, reported the stories of Marc and Claire Headley, and Jenna Miscavige and other stories of child abuse, attempted murder, coerced suicides, forced abortions, false imprisonment, kidnapping, destruction of families, child labor law violations, sweat shops, and human trafficking. These are stories of human rights violations that compare to the stories of what happened under Pol Pot and Idi Amin, to name just a few of the outrages of the past 50 years. What is the US government doing about these human rights violations? Why does the government have a hands-off policy towards Miscavige, but not towards other “religious” leaders like Warren Jeffreys, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker?

    • ze moo

      Warren Jeffs was convicted of child rape type offenses. Jim Baker was convicted of running a ponzi scheme and tax evasion. Jimmy Swaggart has never been criminally charged with anything that I can find. His prostitute scandal ended his TV career. He could run for comptroller of New York if he wanted to.

      CO$ gets away with its crimes because the crimes are committed against their own and ‘their own’ don’t press charges. Pol Pot murdered millions, Idi Amin killed thousands (hundreds of thousands?). Miscavige doesn’t line up his victims and machine gun them. He abuses them until they quit or break. $cientology brain washing lets them get away with a lot.

      American law assumes that a person is in control of their mind and doesn’t often interfere in any ones ‘religion’. I would term pretty much everything $cientology does as brain washing and abuse. The law will only step in if someone brings charges, elder abuse has been prosecuted and I hope some day child abuse will be tried also.

      Yeah Still On Your Side, that sucks…..

      • coonellie

        Hi Ze Moo, the sociopath who raised me is still free, living in a multimillion dollar house, doing whatever suits them and controlling the rest of the family, whilst the trail of littered lives muddies the trimmed hedges and flowering walkways out the front door.

        Many tried to get help through legal channels (including myself), but the legal establishment seems to think that sociopaths don’t really exist, except in TV programs. The person making the criminal complaint(s) ends up sounding crazed and paranoid, and the grifter walks free. Those trying through civil channels give up because it costs more than they have and what they had was already grifted.

        One of my favorite relatives committed suicide because of this parent – a direct result of identity theft with lots of evidence from multiple sources. The city detective received the info and evidence from me and another relative (the son of the deceased) but he wouldn’t pursue charges. I spoke to him and he said the relative was dead and gone (and old) and it would take “too many resources” and the results wouldn’t be jail time. This wasn’t in some backwater town either, it was in a well-to-do suburb in a major metropolitan area.

        I guess my point is that even if those who got out made complaints and they were criminal in nature, the law enforcement establishment would have to be willing to pursue it. I’m not sure if that will exists yet. I hope I’m wrong.

        • aquaclara

          Coonellie, this is beyond sad for you, for your family, and for others that were screwed by the SOB that created the mess. I am so sorry…..
          And even as we see what the Headleys and Laura have gone through in their lawsuits, there are many more we never hear about, cult or no cult.
          Many hugs to you. Wish it were better.

          • coonellie

            Aquaclara, thank you for the hugs. I’ll take ’em. Usually, I’m okay with it, but sometimes there are anniversaries of certain things that make me sad…and mad. I’m the lucky one in the family, I escaped. Anything is better, so it’s okay now, regardless of the past :).

            • aquaclara

              Maybe we can help you celebrate the good anniversary-when you began your new life. Thankfully, you escaped. It sounds like there is much left behind, though. You didn’t say if it was this cult or another version of one that caused the mess. It probably doesn’t matter if the wreckage was the same.

              Have you read Marc’s book, Blown for Good? Remarkably forward-looking, without disguising the anger. How he and Claire found their way is inspiring.

              Keep writing….we’re here. With hugs, tissues, and sympathy.

            • coonellie

              I LOVED Marc’s book. It was a laugh-out-loud, hang-on-for-dear-life real-life suspense thriller that I couldn’t put down!

              And, no, I was never in, but I grew up with a sociopath for a parent (and I only had the one parent as a divorce happened when I was an infant) and the stories of ex-Sci kids and myself are striking.

              The good anniversary would be when I married my beloved Mr. C as he was only the second person in my life to stand up for me, stand in between me and the dragon and say, “NO MORE.” He has a gigantic set of cajones that came in real handy ;).

              Thanks for reminding me to celebrate the good anniversary, really. Sometimes it’s right in front of me and I can’t see it. I’m grateful for the nudge.

            • aquaclara

              Celebrating with cake and candles for the great anniversary!!! Here’s to you and Mr. C!

            • i-Betty

              I’m so happy for you, Coonellie 🙂

        • sugarplumfairy

          “Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives us more protection than any other single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more trouble … without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as far as we have. And now it’s too late to be stopped. The protection was accidental but it serves us very well indeed. Remember that the next time the ignorant scoff.” – HCOB 29 July 1963 “Scientology Review”

          • coonellie

            OMG, they were twins separated at birth, although my parent was/is very good looking, excessively charming and, alas, quite brilliant.

            SPF, I’m keeping the quote. Thank you sooooooo much for it. It will make explaining this to Baby C easier – sums up years in one paragraph.

            • ThetaBara

              They so often are very very charismatic.
              I’m sorry you had that in your life. Have you read the Sociopath Next Door? I found it incredibly illuminating. Even when she was explaining things I thought I understood, the way she put it together was really helpful for me. I had some major cognitions! 😉

            • coonellie

              Oh, yes, Martha’s book was very good indeed. I also thoroughly enjoyed Hare’s books, especially, “Without Conscience.” Also, “Son of a Grifter” and “The Glass Castle” are two books that I could relate to on many levels.

        • GlibWog

          Shit coonellie.. just horrible.. breaks my heart ( Hugs) and a tear running down my cheek for your lost youth and the horror you experienced while living with this Sociopath. The suicide of your loved one is just so unimaginable.

          You are A survivor. You come here anytime and talk to any of us. xo

          • coonellie

            Thanks GlibWog (although I’m sorry I made you cry…I try so hard not to cause anyone pain).

            I ready daily, post when the mood and time allow. The kindness and love that is exhibited on this blog are truly amazing to me, as well as the forthright honesty and in-your-face opinions.

            Reminds me of being in a room with a few Israelis and Greeks having a love fest – very loud and scary sounding until you realize they’re getting along like a house on fire :).

            • GlibWog

              Oh… Never, ever apologize for bringing tears to another’s eyes with your life experience coonellie. Tears of compassion are very valuable to both parties. It means you are alive and capable of feeling another’s pain.

              If I could wrap you in bubble wrap the rest of your life so that you would never hurt again I would. Yes a love fest! A loud, crazy in your face love fest! xo smooches..

        • Casabeca

          I hate to break it to you, but we MUST be cousins! The charming millionaire sounds so sweet on the phone to others, right? My only sib died at only 45, not exactly suicide, but years of bullimia and cocaine relieve family pain but are too much for a heart to take.
          I do not mean to run the childhood suck Olympics with you, you have probably been thru worse than me. I hate that any child in any family suffers a corrupt ruler. I am so sorry for your pain and loss. My hubs and I work for anti-abuse education and prevention charities…no luck changing our own family.
          I thank God every day that my very good and kind hubs has built a strong family with a wonderful grown kiddo. I was not sure it was possible, so I feel like a lottery winner in love.
          My uncle is the one who keeps getting scammed by his kid. Infuriating elder abuse, but he will not press charges when “identity is stolen” over and over, coinciding with a kid who is skin and bones with meth mouth.
          Sometimes I wonder if my attraction to this cause is that 1) We can never go back in time to fight our childhood bullies. 2) Today’s family bullies are going nowhere fast. 3)DM could actully fall with our help, on our watch.
          Or maybe that’s just me. Sorry if this is too personal or intrusive. I truly wish you peace.

        • Interested

          :-((( so shitty. I’m so

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Yes, it sucks. A human rights violation is a human rights violation. Pol Pot is famous for killing millions, –he thought he was “purifying” Cambodia by erasing Western Culture. Newspapers, radios, televisions, schools, industries, shops, hospitals, all shut down. People were told what to think, and the way to think it. Millions were forced into slave labor in the “killing fields.” People died from overwork, malnutrition and disease. The slightest infraction, like eating too much, or resting, was punished, often by death. Jeffs and company claimed that marrying children was part of their religion, but then hid it when there was any public scrutiny. Eventually, one or more of the young wives went public and told her story, the prosecution followed. Law enforcement and political officials in parts of several states not only looked the other way, but at times helped to enforce it. Jeffs and company also drove young boys into the nearest cities and abandoned them there.

        Miscavige hasn’t run his fiefdom nearly to the extreme of Pol Pot, and, to my knowledge, he doesn’t condone rape, but he does demand that children work the same hours and be punished the same as adults. The stories of Miscavige’s abuse of children and adults are eerily similar to the stories of abuse and despotic rage coming out of Cambodia and Uganda. Where else in recent American history have there been stories of 6 year olds being forced to haul heavy rocks for over six hours a day, every day, while at “school”? Or minors cleaning out sewage with their bare hands in the desert heat, or forced to live on rice and beans or slop? That doesn’t even take into consideration the stories of adults locked in trailers without air conditioning in the desert, or people tracked down and “recovered” if they escape. You are right, US law doesn’t recognize the loss of free will, that’s why Patty Hearst was convicted of bank robbery even though she had been kidnapped and looked like a zombie on video shots of the robbery. The law, however, has a strict liability standard when it comes to children. If an adult has sex with a minor it is rape. An adult that beats, starves, or abuses a child in any way is guilty of a crime. There are many laws protecting children. Thus, even if the law never changes to recognize brainwashing, it still protects children in brainwashed cults. Children who were sexually molested 20-30 years ago have been allowed to bring charges against priests and others due to changes in the law. I think we are coming closer to a time when the courts will also extend the statute of limitations for lawsuits by adults who were systematically abused by entities such as the CoS as children.

        • ThetaBara

          The Mormons are next.

      • Van Allen BLT

        They are working on some legislation in New Jersey that would give more legal traction to saving young adults from the cult (in general, predators which seek to disrupt families) – I forget the website

    • ThetaBara

      Nicole said when they were late to dinner, she watched Leah eat crumbs from the bottom of a toaster. That breaks my heart. I know she survived and thrived later on but WHO DOES THAT TO A CHILD?

      • Anonymous

        The Bundys on Married with Children. They called those ‘toaster leavins.’

  • Espiando

    By the way, in case there’s any speculation, despite my residence in Chicago and my recent frequent flights to Los Angeles, I am not Christian Stolte. That being said, we do share a similar hair color and mustache in addition to a love of snark and dislike of Scientology, and he is therefore beyond cool.

    • Miles Biondo

      I’m not Spartacus either!

  • tetloj

    Man, I hope we have lots of doubters and fence sitters lurking today: article and comments are dynamite!

  • Gerard Plourde

    Just had the opportunity to read today’s post. Hats off to Chris Stolte for his public support of Leah Remini.

    Re: John Kapor – This line jumped out at me – “I’ve seen people quit drugs cold turkey as a result of the tech.” I take this to be more evidence, even if somewhat indirect, of Scientology’s control of Narconon.

    Re the Portland Org – 20X raw public routed into the org? An algebra problem? Is the rest of the problem “Solve for the value of X = 0?”

    Great picture of Marc – Is OSA so uncoordinated that it doesn’t have pictures of infamous SP’s disseminated to all Orgs? Someone is going to be so sec checked.

    • Espiando

      Do you know what the size of their photo book would have to be nowadays?

      • Gerard Plourde

        Much larger than the Ronopedia, I’m sure. But I was thinking of the main ones like Marc and Claire and Amy Scobee ( I would think they could pick out Rathbun and Rinder without a book).

        • ThetaBara

          Considering the staff turnover that might be a stretch.

  • FingersCrossed

    Omg! I love the Marc Headley pic!

  • DeElizabethan

    Christian Stolte is a champion, loved the interview. I never watched the show and now I will.

    Marc, on that photo, Lutz!

  • Now if only Marc had his photo taken with a finger pointing up…

    And jolly good show for Christian Stolte calling out Mr-Have-You-raped-a-baby-against-LRH-today? Elfman 🙂

  • Gus_Cox

    The Headleys fucking rock!

  • SP ‘Onage

    “The memory of oppressed people is one thing that cannot be taken away, and for such people, with such memories, revolt is always an inch below the surface.”
    —Howard Zinn “A People’s History of the United States”

    Scientology’s oppression has created the “danger condition” it’s in now. The resistance against them today is the byproduct of their oppression.

    Sixty years of fair gaming, dead agenting, threatening lawsuits and actual lawsuits, bullying journalists, the media, critics, ex-scientologists and scientologists has finally taken its toll on people.

    Each person they “fair game” has at least 25 to 100 family members, friends or colleagues connected to them, maybe even more. These people’s memories are long and they have not forgotten what has been done to them by this organization.

    They have harmed more people directly and indirectly than the amount of members they have ever had in their cult.

    They whine about being religiously persecuted, but are too blind to see it’s actually years of overdue “payback” they’ve had coming to them.

  • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

    Off topic, but I can NEVER pass up an opportunity to see Hitler rant about something. And this time, it’s Scamotology 😀

    I also LOVE the one where his Xbox account gets banned 😀

  • Jeb Burton

    I wonder who he is talking about doing the dirtiest dirty work? Maybe Rinder or Rathbun could fill us in.

    • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

      No way. They were never in the upper management of Scamotology, or didn’t you get the memo? 😉

  • DodoTheLaser

    Great Sunday. Prepare for Monday.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Nota Bene: The Super Power release might be delayed, because COB spends too much time on the internet,
    reading entheta stuff.

  • dagobarbz

    “Listen, any human being walks away from Scientology, that’s a good
    thing. But not every exit merits such fanfare. Some people leave after
    decades-long careers of doing the church’s dirtiest dirty work, and
    expect to be embraced by the world outside without the slightest attempt
    at making amends for their crimes. People who should at the very least
    be testifying against the church, against Miscavige, even where such
    testimony incriminates themselves.”

    Sounds like a pair of ass clowns whose initials are both MR…

  • Mrs Libnish

    I have watched Chicago Fire since episode 1. I KNEW there was a reason I loved his character. Besides his name…Mouch (man + couch).

  • Jgg2012

    This is tangential, but Lindsay Lohan is disconnecting from several friends. As part of her effort to stay sober, she is dropping those her are a bad influence on her. The difference here, of course, is it is her own choice, and it is not being made on the basis of beliefs (eg no longer the same religion) but on the health practices she needs to maintain. Narconon would have had her disconnect from people based on beliefs.

  • Jgg2012

    Well everyone, Kirstie is doing her part on Twitter. In the last 24 hours she has said “Speak up for and fight for your human and civil rights!” and “should ALL people have religious freedom, or should religions be limited to a selected handful?” to which I said “stop the abuses of Scientology” and “yes, all people, so stop disconnection.” Those were set ups. I hope you all tweet to her also.

  • ahkang

    Hate to get all clinical about it, but the self-entrapment mechanism that works on the True Believers, even those now outside who still believe, is cognitive dissonance.

  • Portland SP

    I walk by the new COS org in Portland a few times a week in an attempt to check out the “hordes of new people”. I have seen a total of one person in there since May. The place is empty. Today they had a bunch of catering trucks and film crew surrounding the org. I thought, wow, they might be filming a commercial or ad for the Church. But no, it was a scene from Grimm. 🙂