There was a whole movement against evolutionary psychology way back when because people refused to believe that humans were just really smart animals. So the whole idea has just started to become popular again in recent history.

You’re being overly-sensitive and assigning emotional states to my comments which simply are inaccurate. How are you going to jump into a comment I made and then try to avoid having any kind of meaningful conversation about it, or even being accountable for anything that you said? That’s rude.

I do read them. Do you read mine? I never said you were wrong, I said I disagreed with some of the words used in part of what you were describing from the Great Course lecture. What you call passive aggressive is a person trying to avoid an argument. I don’t want to argue. You attack everything I say. I have attempted as politely as I know how to bow out of this discussion with you. You are being hostile, demanding and rude. Please stop.

Sorry, I’ve been MIA…I’m so flattered you checked out King Missile! John S. Hall has that perfect 90s droll wit. I still think Kim Deal’s the coolest. She also had a one-off project in…late 90s/early aughts?…called The Amps that released one record, but it had some little gems on it. I boycott the Buttholes because of they way they turned on Corey Rusk and his Touch & Go label. They’re a bunch of acid-riddled fuckers.

I know this is probably just my gray hairs talking, but the 90s really was a rare time in music when crazy shit got a chance to bubble up from the underground and shine in the spotlight, however briefly. Thanks, Nirvana! (And all the A&R guys looking for the next Nirvana who had no idea what the kids wanted to hear but figured they’d try anything for a big score.)

John S. Hall started in the New York anti-folk scene. Here’s a piece of his from back in the day. Did I share this with you before? I can’t remember…Anyway, it always makes me chuckle. Rock and roll, baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8AmmKMWNE

I love my Audible subscription! I actually signed up for it when Leah Remini’s book came out. She’s been a force for good in so many ways. ; )

Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll have to check it out. I’m familiar with sociobiology (Edward O. Wilson) but not evolutionary psychology. I studied cognitive psych in college–many many long moons ago–but at the time, the information processing model of the human brain was all the rage (i.e., the human brain as mini-computer). Which was an interesting lens through which to talk about human behavior, but not the whole story. Anyway, thanks, sweet pea!

It seems like you went into this comment with a preconceived idea about what I was saying. Intrusive isn’t what I was describing at all. In fact, it was the opposite. You were quick to tell me I was wrong, without ever saying why. That is what is frustrating to me.

I don’t seek validation. I get and give plenty of that day in and day out. In fact, you haven’t validated me once in this entire conversation so I don’t know why you’re saying that you’ll always validate someone. That’s so contradictory.

I don’t want you to impose your view. I want you to expound on it to help me understand it. I feel like you’re not even reading my comments before you draft these passive-aggressive responses.

I did qualify from the start “I sort of disagree with the bit about cults, if I understand it correctly” in my original post. So maybe I did not understand it correctly.

I’m sorry that you find my suggestions intrusive. They are only suggestions of things that have helped me. If they don’t appeal to you, no worries.

I will always validate anyone coming out of a high demand/high control group; that It is totally up to them to decide how they choose to process their experience. There is no right or wrong. As one of my (sort of) favorite philosopher’s, Cher, said; “this is your one and only life”. It belongs to you and nobody else. Maybe we can agree on that. I would never impose my view and I did not intend to impose my view on you.

I am probably not the person to engage in a discussion with you. But there are plenty of folks on this board and others with whom you might have more fruitful exchanges. All the best in your pursuits. Kimmey…out!

I’ll ILL it at the library. Thanks Derek!

Hi Jane,

I don’t have any issue with your point of view. I have an issue that after several comments I have no idea what your point of view is other than you telling me that you disagree.

You said there were many theories, but they are just theories. That doesn’t make any sense. You didn’t share any of the theories and you didn’t share what it is that West, Singer or Lifton’s theories are. I have no way to judge if I’d be interested in them or not.

I would much rather if you shared at least a synopsis, similar to what I did. That way we can have a conversation. Instead of you just telling me that you disagree that I should study what you studied. I’m not sure if you understand how that’s bothersome to me or not.

I’ll try to explain this way with a hypothetical. If I am standing in a room showing people a book and giving a little speech about what it meant to me. Then you come in and put some book you’re reading in front of me. You point at mine and say, “I disagree with that. You should read this.” Then you hold your book in front of me, without explanation. Can you see how that would be bothersome?

If not, maybe we are just very different people in that respect. I would much prefer that we had a conversation about what you had studied. Since I opened up about what I had studied.

I am on an intellectual pursuit. It’s deeply personal, and sharing it makes me vulnerable. You may not have realized that. When you didn’t acknowledge anything that I said and just started telling me what you think I should be studying, it was a little curt.

The conversation would have been very different if you had told me, “I studied these lectures/books by so-and-so and it taught me [insert synopsis here]. Which is similar/different/opposite to what you are studying. Maybe you should check it out.”

It’s also a very Scientological thing to say, “You should read/listen blah.” But not even saying what “blah” is about. That’s why my comments are so long-winded. I am looking for an in-depth and meaningful conversation.
——————-
To respond to some of your original points then:

The word “deviant” is used to describe people that are in some way alienated by society. I am listening to a series of lectures right now called ‘Explaining Social Deviance’. Which is fascinating. There are many schools of thought when it comes to morality. Each of them can change what people would consider “deviant” behavior. It’s not mean in an insulting way, rather it describes how a person’s behavior may be objectively viewed, or how people’s behavior toward a person makes them feel. There are many things that could be considered deviant that are not all that bad: fudging on a tax return, littering, jay walking and smoking weed. Even people who engage in those behaviors may, themselves, consider the behavior to be deviant. Another example is sometimes following a law could be considered deviant: For example, in some places there are laws on the books that require businesses to close on Sundays. Those laws are universally ignored. So if you own a convenience store and you close it on Sunday, that would be considered deviant behavior by the other shop owners in the area, even though you’re following the law.

As far as flaws go, I didn’t say anything about flaws and neither did the lecturer. The lecturer was talking about people who feel like they don’t belong anywhere or who have recently experienced a strong, hurtful rejection are often looking to belong. So deviant groups, like Scientology, will recruit them by giving them a sense of belonging that they were unable to find elsewhere.

There are lots of studies on group behavior in cult-like situations. There is no need, at least in my opinion, to specifically study cult behavior. It’s all readily explained by existing psychological theories. Which is why I prefer to study human psychology and sociology in my free time rather than just watch tons of stuff about cults. I don’t like to narrow my focus. In fact, as I said, I am on an intellectual pursuit. Which means I am looking to obtain as much knowledge as possible.

Which brings me full circle to the fact that I wish you had shared what you had learned instead of just disagreeing with what I said.

Derek I ‘m sorry that my point of view seems to upset you or in some way you feel it is not respectful. I will leave it be now. I will just point out that you dismissed or did not address pretty much all of my points and that hurts my wee feelings a bit.

I hope that your seeming dislike of my opinions (I always said they were my opinions) will not prevent you from looking into Dr. West or Dr.Singer or Dr. Lifton. They are treasures and they are cult 101 if you want to understand cults.