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	Comments on: Trouble for Scientology in 1966: When the Daily Mail called L. Ron Hubbard&#8217;s degrees &#8216;bogus&#8217;	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2016 00:57:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Duane Alexander Miller		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1649583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duane Alexander Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2016 00:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1649583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1624091&quot;&gt;Techie&lt;/a&gt;.

Very helpful! Thanks so much.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1624091">Techie</a>.</p>
<p>Very helpful! Thanks so much.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noesis		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1627530</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noesis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2016 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1627530</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1627157&quot;&gt;Sitkajo&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes - it would appear that Ron&#039;s difficulties with imaginary &quot;enemies&quot; pre-dated his more advanced paranoia which became so obvious while he was running Scientology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1627157">Sitkajo</a>.</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; it would appear that Ron&#8217;s difficulties with imaginary &#8220;enemies&#8221; pre-dated his more advanced paranoia which became so obvious while he was running Scientology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sitkajo		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1627157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sitkajo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2016 06:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1627157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1623820&quot;&gt;Noesis&lt;/a&gt;.

I laughed out loud when I read that passage in  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare-faced_Messiah about when Lt Hubbard accidentally shelled an island offshore Mexico during WWII, believing that he was in a fight to the death with any enemy warship. The lights were from the few small houses on the island. Its also described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1623820">Noesis</a>.</p>
<p>I laughed out loud when I read that passage in  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare-faced_Messiah" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare-faced_Messiah</a> about when Lt Hubbard accidentally shelled an island offshore Mexico during WWII, believing that he was in a fight to the death with any enemy warship. The lights were from the few small houses on the island. Its also described here:<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Once_Born		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625665</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Once_Born]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 13:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625665</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625443&quot;&gt;Dice ✓&lt;/a&gt;.

The UK approach seems to be to regulate commercial operations and use the existing law (which enables the Civil Aviation Authority to make rules with the force of law) for amateur operations. 

Your general advice, is good I think. Do your research. Find a reliable advisor. Have a trial run with a relatively cheap machine to insure you aren&#039;t totally useless as a remote pilot... then move on, if you have caught  the bug.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625443">Dice ✓</a>.</p>
<p>The UK approach seems to be to regulate commercial operations and use the existing law (which enables the Civil Aviation Authority to make rules with the force of law) for amateur operations. </p>
<p>Your general advice, is good I think. Do your research. Find a reliable advisor. Have a trial run with a relatively cheap machine to insure you aren&#8217;t totally useless as a remote pilot&#8230; then move on, if you have caught  the bug.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juicer77		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625588</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juicer77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 08:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625588</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624804&quot;&gt;gtsix&lt;/a&gt;.

@^*&#038;*@ Disqus!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624804">gtsix</a>.</p>
<p>@^*&amp;*@ Disqus!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juicer77		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625587</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juicer77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 08:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625587</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625400&quot;&gt;Once_Born&lt;/a&gt;.

This is exactly why I gave up on it... not my area of expertise. Far better for Mr. J to do the research if/when he wants to drone on about it. Heh heh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625400">Once_Born</a>.</p>
<p>This is exactly why I gave up on it&#8230; not my area of expertise. Far better for Mr. J to do the research if/when he wants to drone on about it. Heh heh.</p>
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		<title>
		By: coonellie		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625581</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[coonellie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 08:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625581</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624599&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

If he&#039;s close by and would like good wine and interesting conversation let me know :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624599">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>If he&#8217;s close by and would like good wine and interesting conversation let me know 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: coonellie		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[coonellie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 08:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624708&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, I did. The next day. Much to my mother&#039;s chagrin. I loved flying until the birth of Baby C.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1624708">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, I did. The next day. Much to my mother&#8217;s chagrin. I loved flying until the birth of Baby C.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mockingbird		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1625511</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mockingbird]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 06:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625511</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1625379&quot;&gt;Once_Born&lt;/a&gt;.

I feel Cialdini&#039;s six principles are a great concept.

Professor Robert Cialdini, published Influence,  one of the all-time classics on changing minds, in which he describes six principles that have stood the test of time. 
Reciprocity: Obligation to repay.
Consistency and Commitment: Need for personal alignment.
Social Proof: The power of what others do.
Liking: The obligations of friendship.
Authority: We obey those in charge.
Scarcity: We want what may not be available.
In addition, Cialdini talks about:
Click, Whirr: The effects of instinct and conditioning.
Within this, we can do some further analysis across the six factors.
Factors Underlying Cialdini&#039;s Six Principles: A cross-principle analysis.

As Milgram showed slight gradual commitment with social support and approval from authority is very effective. It uses consistency and commitment to bolster obedience. Together they are a powerful combination for influence.

Scientology as an example uses Hubbard&#039;s routes onto the bridge and bridge itself. It combines several factors. It has social proof with a closed group that approves submission to Scientology. It absolutely rejects defiance with exclusion. The group treats that as normal.

Scientology cult members approve members that conform. They are your friends and like you to the degree you obey Scientology. 

Scientology asks for very, very little usually in the beginning and the services can be even free or time and attention from many staff and Sea Org members. That creates a feeling of owing Scientology something back. That&#039;s reciprocity. 

By using his gradient approaches Hubbard makes people cooperate a little then a little and through consistency and commitment it becomes rapidly easier to stick with Scientology than abandon it IF you are invested ENOUGH. That&#039;s a key component to who stays and who quits. 

In Scientology Hubbard&#039;s authority is supreme. Miscavige asks for some degree of it, but pretends to be a servant of Hubbard so many Scientologists see no conflict in obeying Miscavige. Some Scientologists even have greater loyalty to Miscavige than Hubbard. 

In Scientology you learn to accept the authority or leave. A black and white choice. 

Finally Hubbard and Miscavige act like the only way to get authentic Scientology is to be in the cult. The independent Scientologists are not even acknowledged by most Scientologists. 

Hubbard claimed a total monopoly on workable technology so Scientologists think it&#039;s totally scarce. One source provides Scientology for a limited time only. 

So all six principles are used to persuade people. 



]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1625379">Once_Born</a>.</p>
<p>I feel Cialdini&#8217;s six principles are a great concept.</p>
<p>Professor Robert Cialdini, published Influence,  one of the all-time classics on changing minds, in which he describes six principles that have stood the test of time.<br />
Reciprocity: Obligation to repay.<br />
Consistency and Commitment: Need for personal alignment.<br />
Social Proof: The power of what others do.<br />
Liking: The obligations of friendship.<br />
Authority: We obey those in charge.<br />
Scarcity: We want what may not be available.<br />
In addition, Cialdini talks about:<br />
Click, Whirr: The effects of instinct and conditioning.<br />
Within this, we can do some further analysis across the six factors.<br />
Factors Underlying Cialdini&#8217;s Six Principles: A cross-principle analysis.</p>
<p>As Milgram showed slight gradual commitment with social support and approval from authority is very effective. It uses consistency and commitment to bolster obedience. Together they are a powerful combination for influence.</p>
<p>Scientology as an example uses Hubbard&#8217;s routes onto the bridge and bridge itself. It combines several factors. It has social proof with a closed group that approves submission to Scientology. It absolutely rejects defiance with exclusion. The group treats that as normal.</p>
<p>Scientology cult members approve members that conform. They are your friends and like you to the degree you obey Scientology. </p>
<p>Scientology asks for very, very little usually in the beginning and the services can be even free or time and attention from many staff and Sea Org members. That creates a feeling of owing Scientology something back. That&#8217;s reciprocity. </p>
<p>By using his gradient approaches Hubbard makes people cooperate a little then a little and through consistency and commitment it becomes rapidly easier to stick with Scientology than abandon it IF you are invested ENOUGH. That&#8217;s a key component to who stays and who quits. </p>
<p>In Scientology Hubbard&#8217;s authority is supreme. Miscavige asks for some degree of it, but pretends to be a servant of Hubbard so many Scientologists see no conflict in obeying Miscavige. Some Scientologists even have greater loyalty to Miscavige than Hubbard. </p>
<p>In Scientology you learn to accept the authority or leave. A black and white choice. </p>
<p>Finally Hubbard and Miscavige act like the only way to get authentic Scientology is to be in the cult. The independent Scientologists are not even acknowledged by most Scientologists. </p>
<p>Hubbard claimed a total monopoly on workable technology so Scientologists think it&#8217;s totally scarce. One source provides Scientology for a limited time only. </p>
<p>So all six principles are used to persuade people. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Dice ✓		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625443</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dice ✓]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2016 03:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=35207#comment-1625443</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625393&quot;&gt;Once_Born&lt;/a&gt;.

aha! here everyone has to have a gubberment license as soon as they can pass the law, and this is to be able to regulate it, which then get&#039;s harder and harder to obtain over time,  while those who don&#039;t follow the rules get&#039;s filtered out. There are warnings out, not to buy those for x-mas as they will all be grounded eventually. So my advice is to obtain what ever license there will be at the beginning as it will become harder and harder  in a few years.  When selecting a model, i would turn to youtube and see a non-commercial average Joe demonstrate this model and not rely on the company provide one. If you can, find a store where there is real people who can guide and show the real thing, and then pay the extra for that service. I bought a Motor + rotor + small control unit  in a store like this. Just to get my hands on what i am dealing with, as in power, quality, tools and expenses.  I will still wait some time to get one as they will get better and better very fast, but i would not wait with the license. If i where you i would go with a low end model just to try it out and then if going serious and more experienced, go for the Pro!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/11/04/trouble-for-scientology-in-1966-when-the-daily-mail-called-l-ron-hubbards-degrees-bogus/comment-page-2/#comment-1625393">Once_Born</a>.</p>
<p>aha! here everyone has to have a gubberment license as soon as they can pass the law, and this is to be able to regulate it, which then get&#8217;s harder and harder to obtain over time,  while those who don&#8217;t follow the rules get&#8217;s filtered out. There are warnings out, not to buy those for x-mas as they will all be grounded eventually. So my advice is to obtain what ever license there will be at the beginning as it will become harder and harder  in a few years.  When selecting a model, i would turn to youtube and see a non-commercial average Joe demonstrate this model and not rely on the company provide one. If you can, find a store where there is real people who can guide and show the real thing, and then pay the extra for that service. I bought a Motor + rotor + small control unit  in a store like this. Just to get my hands on what i am dealing with, as in power, quality, tools and expenses.  I will still wait some time to get one as they will get better and better very fast, but i would not wait with the license. If i where you i would go with a low end model just to try it out and then if going serious and more experienced, go for the Pro!</p>
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