Last note to you John in Okinawa: Just bc I think the Great Game Maker Hubbard was a POS, doesn’t mean i think you are. So, that’s the bottom line.
impasse = barrier. stupid games. we won’t play them.
take care. Q

Good analogy with the restaurant/food.
I am part owner & operator of a restaurant, for 22 years, so I get it.

I am interested in your omelet John.
You do not audit???
You are not nor have ever been in the corporate organized Church of Scientology?
Where are you at in your “training”? Have you reached the highest level?

You can talk to me or not, John.
I will still continue with my simple life. My wants & needs are few.
I pretty much have everything I need to be content & happy.
I am fairly care free… I love & have been loved.

Also, I know what ~san at the end of a name means… that was kind of you to refer to me in that way.

Hey, you hang on one fine minute here Johninokinawa.

I answered Mark’s question to you before you talked to me John… I was hoping you & he would talk. You tell me LRH was consistent in his {work} regarding how the human mind works… I can’t answer that claim or debate you about it because of my inexperience with the subject directly on a personal level. Mark is a former scientologist. He would know more than than I do about that ‘consistency’. There are many other ex-scientologists who regularly comment here that can debate you, but they don’t. I don’t know why that is.

I stand by this: LRH DID lie about many things during his lifetime here on Earth; he abandoned all of his wives & children. He was always on the lamb. He made fair game & suppressive person doctrine scripture for his adherents, ffs! He calls me, a non-scientologist, a degraded being, a wog. I’ve heard him say this in his lectures! He was NOT what I would call a good man… he was not a loving person, very UN-like the Buddha & the Christ. That IS the end of the story for me. You will never be able to change my mind about that NOR will I ever change your mind either. That’s a fact, I know it. THAT’s what I was telling Mark & I told you the same thing. I’m not lying to you about how I feel or what I know (or don’t know for that matter). You respect him, I do not. So where do we go from here?!

I have listened to too many personal stories from ppl who have been hurt by his ways & means. I am talking about regular folks here John, NOT the rich & famous. I don’t give a hoot about the rich & famous.

Now. I know I will never change YOUR MIND about the impact Hubbard’s sacred science has had on you personally. However, when you answered me with kindness, you gave me hope… hope that maybe you would explain what that impact was, for you personally. But you can never do that, can you? You cannot witness to your experience. Why? Because this is a public forum & to post something so personal would leave you open to attack… give others ammunition to put you down for your beliefs. I am not interested in that.

I swear to god John, if we were speaking to each other privately, we, BOTH OF US, would be able to communicate better with each other.

I’m gonna go re-read your other reply to me now. Damn straight, we ARE exchanging ideas.

That’s nice, Qbird. I thought we were having an exchange of ideas. I see now that we weren’t. Or is it that you feel you have to keep up appearances with the big boys?

Qbird, if you have such little understanding that you honestly find it hard to tell the difference between LRH’s fiction and non-fiction works, there is nothing I can say that will make any difference.

IF you did want to understand, you would study LRH’s works in chronological sequence, starting with the Original Thesis. That’s a lot of study. LRH was a prolific lad! So you would have to really WANT to understand. And judging by what you write, it doesn’t seem to be that big of a deal for you.

As for those who say they have left Scientology, if you want my opinion. Reading what they write and listening to what they say, there is one common point that I can identify.

Leah Rimini and many others really don’t have a clue about the subject. I’m not being nasty here. They really don’t know what it is.

These are “stars” with money who were (wrongly in my opinion) treated like royalty and who never actually STUDIED. They had auditing. That is to say that THEY were helped. But they never had the interest to put in the time to study how to help others.

And, if you knew the degree to which you can really understand and help people with Scientology, you would wonder why they didn’t have any interest in study too.

Anyhow, if you check each of these guys out – you can find their completion records on the Internet – you will find that they completed auditing steps, Grade 0, Grade I, Grade II, Clear, OTi, OTII, etc. But not training levels, HPA, SHSBC, Class VI, Class VIII, etc. The same applies to Ortega. He doesn’t know what it is either. It applies to you, too. As you openly admit, you are not a scholar. That is honest.

To really KNOW the subject, you have to understand it.

Let me give you an analogy. If Scientology can be likened to a restaurant, Rimini, etc., are restaurant customers. They go in and eat the food. They haven’t a clue how it’s cooked or what the ingredients are. They couldn’t even boil an egg and have zero interest in how it’s done. They just want to eat at the in place and look cool.

They are fickle. They go to restaurant A because it’s the in place to go to or their friends go there. But they will easily drop restaurant A and go to restaurant B because their understanding and judgement are very shallow.

Does that make any sense? I’m trying to explain my ideas to you because I have a feeling that on some level, you actually want to know.

Why do they testify as to its harm?

That’s easy. That makes them RIGHT for leaving, doesn’t it.

Ask a divorcee about her husband or his wife and you’re going to get slander. Why? Because it makes them right for leaving that person.

“When You Point a Finger at Someone, There Are Three More Pointing Back at You!”

I never had a lot of money. Scientology hasn’t cost me much money in all the 45 years I have been studying it. Auditing is expensive – as it should be, but training is not. And extension courses (through the internet) are 40 dollars or so for several months of study.

But, Qbird-san, if life is good, keep doing whatever it is that makes it so. As long as you don’t hurt anyone else, I’m sure your life will continue to be good.

Hello again, John.
Your whole life wrapped up in Hubbard’s work. I hear that.

I wonder how much that cost you, not just in money but in time & energy as well?

I agree he left a mountain of {work}… fiction and non-fiction… hard to tell the difference.
and I have listened
to not all of his lectures… nor have I read all of his books.
But I have heard & read enough of him to not trust his opinions on the mind nor his thought system.
I am telling you my truth, what I have learned of LRH.
I am not a scholar.

“raving imagination” ~ interesting turn of phrase you use.

To let you know, I have lived my whole life without Ron in it.
Life is good. I live & I learn. Don’t need his case.
Thursdays are good days for me. Ha!

Why are there so many who cannot understand the subject matter? Why so many who have left Scn. and testify to its harm?

Do you have an opinion on that?

Bullshit! ferk off

Hello Mark. I don’t know how to answer John regards his love & affection for LRH. I am not a scholar. He’s used ron’s tech for all his life & it works for him. There is no changing his mind about it; that’s a fact. Just as there is no changing my mind: Hubbard was a liar & full of shit – end of story, imo.

I’m suddenly real busy with RL at the moment John. dang it!
Had 2 days off in a row & had to go fishing both days — oh joy!
The last 2 days were incredibly beautiful & gentle fall days… rare in Oct. here.
I’m just now catching up, but must go to work shortly.
I should like to revisit what you’ve said here & reply more properly later.
The storm is above you now; did the typhoon hurt your Island too bad?

Thank you Qbird. I appreciate that.