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	Comments on: As Scientology sinks, does Tom Cruise really have to go down with the ship?	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2016 22:56:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: FredEX2		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1547861</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FredEX2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2016 22:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1547861</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453532&quot;&gt;Cynthia&lt;/a&gt;.

Cynthia, I drafted the original &#039;Parenting Plan&#039; in California. But it doesn&#039;t forbid a parent teaching a child their religion ( unless it&#039;s abusive ) What it does do is require that parents devise and agree on a plan of custody and care in the best interests of their child or children. They must share information about teachers, Dr&#039;s, and all sorts of things pertaining to their child and demonstrate to the court that they can be amiable and communicate without alienating their child. If they can create their own plan and agree on their own custody arrangements...there&#039;s no need for the court to decide in custody issues when parents can agree. The exception to all of this is in the accusations &#038; presence of abuse...the &#039;plan&#039; is then decided by a judge in their best interests with the goal to protect them Unfortunately things don&#039;t always work out as one would hope. But the existence of a &#039;Parenting Plan&#039; encourages parents to get along for the sake of their children and has helped many towards that goal.    ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453532">Cynthia</a>.</p>
<p>Cynthia, I drafted the original &#8216;Parenting Plan&#8217; in California. But it doesn&#8217;t forbid a parent teaching a child their religion ( unless it&#8217;s abusive ) What it does do is require that parents devise and agree on a plan of custody and care in the best interests of their child or children. They must share information about teachers, Dr&#8217;s, and all sorts of things pertaining to their child and demonstrate to the court that they can be amiable and communicate without alienating their child. If they can create their own plan and agree on their own custody arrangements&#8230;there&#8217;s no need for the court to decide in custody issues when parents can agree. The exception to all of this is in the accusations &amp; presence of abuse&#8230;the &#8216;plan&#8217; is then decided by a judge in their best interests with the goal to protect them Unfortunately things don&#8217;t always work out as one would hope. But the existence of a &#8216;Parenting Plan&#8217; encourages parents to get along for the sake of their children and has helped many towards that goal.    </p>
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		<title>
		By: Col Hogan		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-2/#comment-1496906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Col Hogan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2016 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1496906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s hard to believe that Tom Cruise cannot see what is going on with this cult.  It&#039;s not very difficult for everyone in the world to know what they are doing, now that so many Scientologists have jumped ship.  This whole thing is so disgusting that you can&#039;t help but feel for Katie Holmes and her struggle to get away!  But she did it!  This would make one heck of a movie if someone could get away with writing and filming it.  Of course the folks involved in Scientology would put up such legal stink that it probably would never see the light of day.  Too bad though!  I would go see that movie!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to believe that Tom Cruise cannot see what is going on with this cult.  It&#8217;s not very difficult for everyone in the world to know what they are doing, now that so many Scientologists have jumped ship.  This whole thing is so disgusting that you can&#8217;t help but feel for Katie Holmes and her struggle to get away!  But she did it!  This would make one heck of a movie if someone could get away with writing and filming it.  Of course the folks involved in Scientology would put up such legal stink that it probably would never see the light of day.  Too bad though!  I would go see that movie!</p>
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		<title>
		By: clarknt67		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1466435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clarknt67]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2016 18:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1466435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453498&quot;&gt;Loner Star&lt;/a&gt;.

Nicole kinda rolled over too. She certainly could have launched a damaging counter-attack. For whatever reason she did not. (FWIW, that was Nicole&#039;s decision I am NOT second guessing what she could have or should have done. The Church might have destroyed her in retaliation.) ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453498">Loner Star</a>.</p>
<p>Nicole kinda rolled over too. She certainly could have launched a damaging counter-attack. For whatever reason she did not. (FWIW, that was Nicole&#8217;s decision I am NOT second guessing what she could have or should have done. The Church might have destroyed her in retaliation.) </p>
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		<title>
		By: clarknt67		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1466427</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clarknt67]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2016 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1466427</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453918&quot;&gt;richelieu jr&lt;/a&gt;.

Also in Katie&#039;s defense there is a world of difference between receiving good advice—and listening and acting on it. She did both. Many people only get the first. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453918">richelieu jr</a>.</p>
<p>Also in Katie&#8217;s defense there is a world of difference between receiving good advice—and listening and acting on it. She did both. Many people only get the first. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Rick Alan Ross		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1464667</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick Alan Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2016 14:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1464667</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1463765&quot;&gt;ccyankee&lt;/a&gt;.

Tom Cruise certainly is treated preferentially in Scientology. In this sense he really cannot or will not empathize or sympathize concerning the common experience shared by most members and horror stories often told by former members.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1463765">ccyankee</a>.</p>
<p>Tom Cruise certainly is treated preferentially in Scientology. In this sense he really cannot or will not empathize or sympathize concerning the common experience shared by most members and horror stories often told by former members.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ccyankee		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1463765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ccyankee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2016 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1463765</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453052&quot;&gt;Rick Alan Ross&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the analysis. What&#039;s interesting to me is that while he takes advantage of the perks, especially free sea org labor, he appears to have offered up his immediate and extended family including his niece, a sea org member, in exchange. (He apprently banashised the niece for a couple of years for committing the crime of making out with her teenage boyfriend within sight of a video camera a while back.) I suppose that&#039;s expected of scientology or other cult type members.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453052">Rick Alan Ross</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the analysis. What&#8217;s interesting to me is that while he takes advantage of the perks, especially free sea org labor, he appears to have offered up his immediate and extended family including his niece, a sea org member, in exchange. (He apprently banashised the niece for a couple of years for committing the crime of making out with her teenage boyfriend within sight of a video camera a while back.) I suppose that&#8217;s expected of scientology or other cult type members.  </p>
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		By: nicholas_jordan456		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-2/#comment-1458876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas_jordan456]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2016 16:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1458876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-2/#comment-1453864&quot;&gt;Franklin Adams&lt;/a&gt;.

I saw the thing on today&#039;s issue or wherever it was stating Masters Thesis work in this, which provides inter-alia among the younger aliens whom think I am good-bait for the medicos, which Kay does a good job of Whaling me.

Consider KLSP Publishing—or any such—as a common failure scenario for Masters Thesis is Prof trying to push nuances which have no substantial basis in-fact, resulting in abandonment of hope and so-on. 

Further, obtaining employment subsequent to issuance of certification is not the Ideal Org which vested-interest scholastic portrays in a manner not unlike Scn Registrars.

Study the work of Robert Rodriguez—in the greatest detail you can achieve—and then lets discuss my film operation; Novalia Films

https://www.stage32.com/profile/248540/justin-case

I may be gaining a writer: Music Worshipper - Animal Lover - Insect Hippie - Defender of Feng Shiu - Natural Health Advocate - Aspiring Amateur Alchemist - Self-proclaimed Physicist - Creative Artist - Houston Native - Chess Player - Tax Payer - Daughter - Sister - Aunt - Friend - Christian - Mountains - Beaches - Rivers - Parks - New Braunfels - New Orleans - New York - Washington DC - San Francisco - Las Vegas - Chicago - Toronto - The North Shore - Miller Outdoor Theatre - Festivals 

Sounds like a match, huh? 

Dunno but lives in LA I think, best that I can tell from her posts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-2/#comment-1453864">Franklin Adams</a>.</p>
<p>I saw the thing on today&#8217;s issue or wherever it was stating Masters Thesis work in this, which provides inter-alia among the younger aliens whom think I am good-bait for the medicos, which Kay does a good job of Whaling me.</p>
<p>Consider KLSP Publishing—or any such—as a common failure scenario for Masters Thesis is Prof trying to push nuances which have no substantial basis in-fact, resulting in abandonment of hope and so-on. </p>
<p>Further, obtaining employment subsequent to issuance of certification is not the Ideal Org which vested-interest scholastic portrays in a manner not unlike Scn Registrars.</p>
<p>Study the work of Robert Rodriguez—in the greatest detail you can achieve—and then lets discuss my film operation; Novalia Films</p>
<p><a href="https://www.stage32.com/profile/248540/justin-case" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.stage32.com/profile/248540/justin-case</a></p>
<p>I may be gaining a writer: Music Worshipper &#8211; Animal Lover &#8211; Insect Hippie &#8211; Defender of Feng Shiu &#8211; Natural Health Advocate &#8211; Aspiring Amateur Alchemist &#8211; Self-proclaimed Physicist &#8211; Creative Artist &#8211; Houston Native &#8211; Chess Player &#8211; Tax Payer &#8211; Daughter &#8211; Sister &#8211; Aunt &#8211; Friend &#8211; Christian &#8211; Mountains &#8211; Beaches &#8211; Rivers &#8211; Parks &#8211; New Braunfels &#8211; New Orleans &#8211; New York &#8211; Washington DC &#8211; San Francisco &#8211; Las Vegas &#8211; Chicago &#8211; Toronto &#8211; The North Shore &#8211; Miller Outdoor Theatre &#8211; Festivals </p>
<p>Sounds like a match, huh? </p>
<p>Dunno but lives in LA I think, best that I can tell from her posts.</p>
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		By: richelieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1457769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richelieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 21:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1457769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1454034&quot;&gt;aquaclara&lt;/a&gt;.

One more anecdote which has suddenly become even more poignant for me recently, and which I am sure can be appreciated on more than just a voyeuristic, name-dropping level (not that there is anything wrong with that!) is that along time ago, I dropped by the concert hall where I knew he would be playing. I hadn&#039;t seen him in quite a while, maybe even a couple of years, and hadn&#039;t been able to get the record company to cough up what hotel he would be atn so I just dropped by the concert hall around the time I knew they&#039;d be doing the sound-check.

I tend not to do this due to having once ended up spending about an hour outside in the alley with a bunch of under-age groupies,one of whom was lovely, doll-like creature with big lavender eyes and who took me to the side to show me the little window where she had seen Courtney Love (of whom, the less said, the better)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1454034">aquaclara</a>.</p>
<p>One more anecdote which has suddenly become even more poignant for me recently, and which I am sure can be appreciated on more than just a voyeuristic, name-dropping level (not that there is anything wrong with that!) is that along time ago, I dropped by the concert hall where I knew he would be playing. I hadn&#8217;t seen him in quite a while, maybe even a couple of years, and hadn&#8217;t been able to get the record company to cough up what hotel he would be atn so I just dropped by the concert hall around the time I knew they&#8217;d be doing the sound-check.</p>
<p>I tend not to do this due to having once ended up spending about an hour outside in the alley with a bunch of under-age groupies,one of whom was lovely, doll-like creature with big lavender eyes and who took me to the side to show me the little window where she had seen Courtney Love (of whom, the less said, the better)</p>
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		By: richelieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1457763</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richelieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1457763</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453089&quot;&gt;richelieu jr&lt;/a&gt;.

@disqus_ZVQM8GwKyg:disqus and @aquaclara2:disqus 

Since you both read this, I should say that I was going to continue to say that this is also why you get Bono-types and others giving massively to charity, just so they can sleep at night; But truly wealthy folks have got to hire someone (or several people-) just to deal with those demands... I thought it was already too long, so...

My own fame was less and more fleeting, but I found it very disagreeable and dealt with it more poorly than most. As anyone on these boards can attest, I can be rather prickly person, and the unequal status transaction where strangers think they know you (because, you know, the kind of DO-- at least better than you know them) was disorienting, especially as I am also one of those people who often has difficulty recognizing someone, even someone I see often, if they are in a different place--teachers at the store, cashiers in a disco, etc.. If someone smile and waves, I tend to think they know me and start to play along, and that is a very bad reflex to have.

Add to that (and this is no secret, either) that if they were beautiful young women, I tended to give in anyway-- Hollywood didn&#039;t create the Bad Richelieu jr, but it certain funhoused-mirrored them into grotesque prominence in a jiffy.

I know a guy who says that you have to pretty much give the newly famous a pass for the first two years because they have no fucking idea where to put their feet (they &quot;perdent les pedales&quot;(their feet slip off the pedals&#039; as we picaresquely say in French.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1453089">richelieu jr</a>.</p>
<p>@disqus_ZVQM8GwKyg:disqus and @aquaclara2:disqus </p>
<p>Since you both read this, I should say that I was going to continue to say that this is also why you get Bono-types and others giving massively to charity, just so they can sleep at night; But truly wealthy folks have got to hire someone (or several people-) just to deal with those demands&#8230; I thought it was already too long, so&#8230;</p>
<p>My own fame was less and more fleeting, but I found it very disagreeable and dealt with it more poorly than most. As anyone on these boards can attest, I can be rather prickly person, and the unequal status transaction where strangers think they know you (because, you know, the kind of DO&#8211; at least better than you know them) was disorienting, especially as I am also one of those people who often has difficulty recognizing someone, even someone I see often, if they are in a different place&#8211;teachers at the store, cashiers in a disco, etc.. If someone smile and waves, I tend to think they know me and start to play along, and that is a very bad reflex to have.</p>
<p>Add to that (and this is no secret, either) that if they were beautiful young women, I tended to give in anyway&#8211; Hollywood didn&#8217;t create the Bad Richelieu jr, but it certain funhoused-mirrored them into grotesque prominence in a jiffy.</p>
<p>I know a guy who says that you have to pretty much give the newly famous a pass for the first two years because they have no fucking idea where to put their feet (they &#8220;perdent les pedales&#8221;(their feet slip off the pedals&#8217; as we picaresquely say in French.</p>
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		By: richelieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1457761</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richelieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 21:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=31141#comment-1457761</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1454034&quot;&gt;aquaclara&lt;/a&gt;.

Naw, he&#039;s OK. 

But there was a sort of point where when I would try and just drop in, there were people suddenly between him and me that I didn&#039;t know and had never seen and who had the right to say &#039;no&#039;. This got figured out, but it is weird.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2016/05/24/as-scientology-sinks-does-tom-cruise-really-have-to-go-down-with-the-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-1454034">aquaclara</a>.</p>
<p>Naw, he&#8217;s OK. </p>
<p>But there was a sort of point where when I would try and just drop in, there were people suddenly between him and me that I didn&#8217;t know and had never seen and who had the right to say &#8216;no&#8217;. This got figured out, but it is weird.</p>
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