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Brian Sheen continues to fight Scientology’s ‘disconnection’ in unique and unusual ways

Brian_Sheen_PC

[Brian Sheen meets Miss Lovely, journalist Paulette Cooper]

Last July, we told you the complex saga of Brian Sheen, a Florida man whose grown daughter cut him out of her life on instructions of the Church of Scientology for reasons that were maddeningly murky.

Sheen had been very active in Scientology decades ago, but had left it in 1979. Since then, he’d never been antagonistic toward the organization, and he never discouraged his daughter Springsong from being a member. In 2014, he happily attended as Springsong married into a wealthy Scientology family — the Atkinson-Bakers, who own a national court-reporting business.

So when Sheen got a letter last April informing him that he had been declared a “suppressive person” by the Church of Scientology and would need to perform an amends project in order to get back into the good graces of the organization, he says he was completely taken by surprise. But more importantly, he soon heard from his daughter, who told him that until he completed the project, she couldn’t have anything to do with him. She was disconnecting.

Sheen has fought back in interesting ways. He filed a civil rights complaint to a Florida commission which was denied, and he created a website trying to raise awareness about Scientology’s policy that rips apart families.

And now that it’s been a year since he was declared, Sheen wanted to share with us what he’s been doing since we last wrote about him.

“I saw my daughter,” he told us, and that definitely got our attention. He said he went to see her on March 28. What happened? we asked him.

“I was out in California, and I went to her place and knocked on the door,” he said. And?

“I didn’t have any idea of what would happen. But it was very clear that she was really stressed out to see me, that’s for sure.”

So she wasn’t cooperative?

“The question she kept asking was, why are you here?”

When we wrote about Brian last July, we managed to get Springsong on the phone and talked to her for several minutes. Our conversation tended to bolster what Sheen had told us, that he believed she was disconnecting from him on instructions from the church and not because she really wanted to turn away from her own father. “I love my dad very much and I want him to sort things out. And he knows what he needs to do,” she told us.

But this time, Sheen says, things had changed.

“It’s clear that she looks at me like now I really am an enemy to the church, and therefore to her. And even though I tried to bring in information about what a fraud L. Ron Hubbard was, and why I’ve taken the position I have, it was just really weird,” he said. “It was like my daughter, who loves me, who I always had a loving relationship with, now it was dad, you need to go to the church and you need to do your ‘a to e.’ I told her there’s no way I’d submit myself to this church I call evil. They don’t follow their own policies, why should I pay them a few thousand dollars to get in good standing? They need to make amends to me.

“It didn’t go very well,” he added.

“At one point she said, ‘I’m not brainwashed. I’m not a robot.’ It’s clear to me they have spent a lot of time detailing to her what my ‘high crimes’ are supposed to be. She knows about my website. The TV spots. Your story about it.”

She may also have been told about a visit Sheen made in January to Scientology’s Flag Land Base in Clearwater.

“I wanted to see the Master at Arms. I wanted to see my file. Instead, they escorted me off the property and put a private investigator on me who followed me around Clearwater,” he said.

In an act of protest, Sheen posted a document at the Fort Harrison Hotel in the style of Martin Luther. Sheen’s “95 Theses” contained his indictments of Scientology, but they were quickly torn down by Scientologists who called the police on him.

“They wanted me arrested for trespassing. They ripped down what I’d posted,” he said.

But he’s undaunted. Since he made news last summer, he’s gathered strength from the people he’s met who have also been declared and were subjected to disconnection. He also met Paulette Cooper, the subject of our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely.

“The community of people opposing this organization and its policies is getting stronger every day. Just look at Phil’s billboard. It’s incredible,” Sheen said.

We thanked him for the update, and we told him we expect to hear a lot more from him in the coming months.

 
——————–

Nora Crest sits down with Allison Hope Weiner

 
Once again, Nora spins a spellbinding tale, this time for our own LipTV…

 

 
——————–

GoFundMe gives Fauteux family money that was stolen from them

Wow, what a startling development in a terrible story. Here’s what a GoFundMe spokesman told a Boston TV station last night:

“GoFundMe is providing the family of Tab[a]tha Fauteux with the money raised on her behalf,” a company spokesperson said in an email. “We want to make sure they receive the help they need during this distressing time.”

“Fraud is very rare on the GoFundMe platform, but when it does happen, we do everything we can to make sure that those affected get the help they need,” the spokesman added.

We’ll see if we can get a word about it from Guy Fauteux later today.

 
——————–

HowdyConBanner

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on April 8, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Tony Ortega

    I’m done with Media Lush. I won’t deny that he’s made me laugh or cheer at times over the last few years. But the degrading sewage coming from him has just become too much. More than one person has pointed out to me that he brings this site down, and attacks people with his social media accounts in ways that make it look like he’s speaking for the rest of this community. I’ve had enough. The latest fat-shaming of Kirstie Alley was just too much.

    We are incredibly fortunate to have a community where we can argue and disagree about things, but in a way that is civil and supporting like few other locations on the Internet. For the long-term health of this special place, I decided it was time to remove someone who was working against that goal. I’m sure some of you won’t be happy with this decision. But that’s what this forum is for — I welcome your opinions on the matter.

    • Graham

      Thank you. I for one totally agree with what you’ve said here Tony. It’s a big step to take, but not before time.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I’ve always felt: You pay the rent, you make the guest decisions. Carry on Sir.

    • endoftheQ

      “…we can argue and disagree about things, but in a way that is civil and supporting…”
      Hahaha. Priceless. 😀

      • Linda Clement

        Actually, I’ve found the discussion here to be supportive in disagreement about 99% of the time. That’s why I started reading the comments section. I learn so much here from the different perspectives.

        Some of the jokes go over my head, of course. Will someone please explain “caek” and “kitteh”?

        • Qbird

          It all has to do with the history of the group Anonymous, Linda… there are several books out on the subject.

          ETA: Gabriella Coleman’s Hacker, Hoaxer, Whistleblower, Spy: The Many Faces of Anonymous
          is a good start.

          • A book which is worth the price just for chapter two, which covers the conflict between Chanology and Scientology with considerable insight.

        • Paul V. Tupointeau

          “Kitteh” began as a parody of English as it is written by non-English speakers. People on chat forums (the “-chan’s”) wrote deliberately-mangled English as though it were written by cats and it became a meme (“Caturday”). They even wrote a kitteh dictionary and kitteh-version Bible. Most kitteh-speak stems from common mis-spellings due to typing quickly. Letter-reversals like “caek” for cake and “liek” for like are examples and, when used deliberately, identify writers as internet-savvy. “Caek” was a theme of early Chanology pickets at CoS churches: it stems from an online game in which the reward (a cake …spelled “caek”) turned out to be a ruse, thus “The caek is a lie!” became a by-word for Scientology. The picketers, of course, posessed genuine cake.

          • Saint

            Excellent. They came for teh caek, they stayed for teh justice.

          • Linda Clement

            Thanks! What a hoot!

    • MrsLurksALot

      Wow, I like ML a lot, he gives great gossip. I didn’t view the Krusty item, so I am not here to defend. I just collapsed the thread, as i wasn’t interested. It is your forum, Tony, and you make the calls. The Bunker will carry on.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      It is your site your decision, Tony. But I think you are being fair.
      Today’s posts just felt like they were trolling and being an arse for the fun of shit stiring, because they kept carrying on even more with each polite poster that told Media Lush that they had gone too far.

    • Susan black

      I’m gonna miss media lush cuz I’m always chasing laughs and he always provides. But every time I hear or read a fat joke I cringe thinking how much it would hurt a large friend of mine. You hurt her, you hurt me. She’d fit right in here at the bunker….except for the fat jokes! So I have to agree with your decision, Tony.

    • This is your shop, media lush already has a site. No real damage.

    • SarahDB

      I support your decision Tony. I personally cringe when I see degrading comments about people like that.

    • PickAnotherID

      Tony’s site, Tony’s rules. But could we please not have more comments on this decision than on today’s story?

    • Ella Raitch

      Oh dear. I’m on the road and haven’t seen what transpired. I have enjoyed Lush’s idiosyncratic contributions over the last few years, and and will miss his presence, and as I have Espiando’s. That said, like Espiando, and Lush was given warnings that he was skirting the boundaries. I hope that frequent readers of Scientology Bollocks keep us informed of good posts.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Hi, Tony. Of course I respect your decision.

      I have not been brought down by Media Lush. If I don’t like something he or someone else writes, it rarely sticks with me. I have my limits as do we all, but Media Lush has not tested them.

    • Jimmy3

      flyonthewall posted a Lego likeness of me that was rather chubby, IMO. I think he Lego-fat-shamed me.

      • daisy

        I fat shame fat beagle everyday but never post pictures so think I am okay. Can someone tell me how to get her to stop posting naked pictures of herself .

      • Saint

        With which Lego Travolta Hair-helmet were you blessed. That is the real shame potential.

    • Illinoisian

      I agree with your decision, and the reasons given, and with your right to set the ground rules for the discussion.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Tony, for my part I generally liked that ML tracked celebs, which I don’t. But I don’t like fat shaming either. Kirstie Alley’s problem is not her weight – it is the fact that she is a member of an evil destructive mind control cult that destroys people and families. I also do not like making fun of DM by calling him a dwarf or midget, because it (edited to correct this word) demeans “little people.”

      Oh, and of course I respect your decision. It is your site. We all just comment here. And if you need to clean up the living room in your own home, I would never argue.

      • Peter

        My concept of “little” where Miscavige is concerned is more in line with little minded, little ethicked, little caring and definitely (based on his recent actions) little brained. That’s little enough for me.

      • Susan black

        Thanks for bringing up the issue of dm’s height. One’s height has nothing to do with a person’s character. Some cultures, like ours, admire and even worship tallness. It’s not ok to fat shame anyone and it’s stupid to make fun of someone for their lack of tall.

        When the day comes that David miscavige admits that Scientology is a big, fat con, I will no longer point out that pompadour thingy on his head that Is supposed add an inch just makes him look ridiculous. Poor little guy,

        • Supper Powers

          “Scientology is a big fat con”
          Are you fat shaming the church? 😉

          • Susan black

            Fat, greedy con. Little guy sitting on all that dough.

          • Linda Clement

            He can’t. The church doesn’t know how to do anything but shrink. (Pun unintended, but I like it anyway.)

      • Linda Clement

        I’m just hopeless. Shutting up is not my gift. (She went back out to her car.)

        I for one am fat and have no problem being teased about it, nor do I have any interest in the opinions of uncaring individuals. I do not use epithets except in the case of persons with antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders, because there is absolutely nothing I or anyone else can do that will affect them personally. I grew up with one. They don’t feel most of what the rest of us do. I can’t explain in detail now, but believe me: I know the inside of David Miscavige’s head like I had a road map. Hubbard is a somewhat different story, but he’s dead.

        You’re right about the use of words that are used in prejudicial comments about Little People, though. The only reason it’s funny in the Ecclesiastical Dingbat’s case is because he’s an egotistical sadist who forces people to treat him like a god or get sent to his own version of hell, RPF, and insulting him when he can’t do a single thing about it is a relatively healthy alternative to screaming and crying. Sometimes laughter really is good medicine.

        I got The Look.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I agree about laughter being good medicine and it seems like a sense of humor is one thing that Scientologists lack.

          And thank you Linda, I am so glad to hear you say your are fat and have no problem being teased about it. I think that is a sign of self-confidence and self-acceptance and is terrific! I know that some people are more sensitive than you are about height, weight, etc – some things that we don’t really have control over. I was thinking of how hurtful it might be for two friends of mine who are dwarves and call themselves Little People, and who have huge and loving hearts, and DM does not deserve to be in the same room as them.

          • Linda Clement

            DM does not deserve to be in the same room with anyone … until he meets The Great Thetan himself in whatever state of existence they end up in and has to answer to, “You did WHAT to MY Church!”

          • Linda Clement

            I don’t mind being teased about my disability either. I like it. One of my caregivers used to snitch an object, like a book, that he knew I’d want after he left that day and place it in plain sight … about 12 inches out of my reach. And go out the door giggling. So I pranked him right back. Once I emailed his best friend and said he was gay. His friend naturally forwarded the email to everyone he knew. My caregiver was teased about that one for WEEKS. He was with me for about a year and a half and we had a great time. I live a damned good life compared to most people on this planet and sympathy for me is just ludicrous. I firmly believe that the ability to have fun is a moral virtue.

            BTW, the medical treatment (ivig infusion) yesterday is kicking in, so is the new med, and I’m beginning to feel distinctly better. Which is a good thing, because I don’t think I can stay away from you guys. I’m in company with heroes. It was so wonderful reading the Bunker and watching Phil and Willie on TV while the worst of it was going on.

          • daisy

            I am also fat. I have no real problem with being teased. I think it is less to do with self confidence and more a coping mechanism. Sometimes when I joke on myself I forget that I am often speaking to other overweight people and am insulting them too.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              That’s a good point. I’m not fat but have enough other quirksand make fun of myself to prevent others from doing so I think.

        • littlefish

          “ecclesiastical dingbat” may be my new favorite phrase.

      • JustSheila

        Kirstie Alley was one of the few celebs who was kind, friendly and down-to-earth with SO Members, never patronizing or arrogant. That she’s taken such a harsh position against those who speak out against scn crimes has caused a lot of anger. Still, it’s just sad, because as a person, she’s otherwise really nice. If only she’d get out of that whole mindset of thinking of us as SPs and enemies. I hope one day that will happen.

        As far as Tony’s decision, it’s your site, Tony. Personally, I like the high standard. Every person now in scn is potentially one more that one day may be out and amongst us.

        • Robert Eckert

          That’s interesting to hear you say that. Derek Bloch has a very different account of her.

          • JustSheila

            The only thing I found by Derek was after he left.

            My first husband (now deceased) was good friends with her for years when he was in the SO. They had a lot of conversations. He really liked her. Yet she treated Leah Remini terribly when she began to question things. Kirstie was nice to the 100% dedicated scientologists, but so horrible to anyone who questioned it. She definitely has two sides to her personality.

            • Robert Eckert

              She crushed Derek’s father financially when he was still a kid.

            • JustSheila

              Thanks, Robert. I didn’t know that. Ruthless! As if she didn’t have enough money! If it’s not too much trouble to find the link, I’d love to read about it. I never personally met Kirstie Alley – just relaying what my ex said in the past. Maybe that was all just social veneer on Kirstie Alley’s part, but it seems a lot of scns get so caught up in the ‘attacking enemies’ BS that they lose their kinder nature. Then they fake true compassion with ‘ARC’. The money grabbing from innocent victims is criminal. Compassion and fairness are what make the world good. In the lopsided scn version, those qualities go by the board.

            • Robert Eckert

              Derek Bloch’s story about Kirstie:

              “My dad worked for the financial management firm called Wiseman & Burke which is a Scientologist-owned and Scientology-run company. There were Sea Org members in there on a regular basis, in person or by telecommute, who directed the financial managers on how to properly manage the money of the star power of Scientology.

              Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, Giovanni Ribisi among others had their accounts managed by said firm. My dad had become a prominent name there and was eventually given Kirstie Alley’s accounts to manage. The people that worked here had all but power of attorney over the financials of these people. They made credit card payments, opened bank accounts, moved money around and did taxes for the rich and famous Scientologists of the day.

              One year my dad had been fervently contacting Kirstie’s assistant because he needed some information in order to file an extension for her corporate taxes in October. She never got back to him and he eventually gave up trying to contact her. Lo and behold she receives a letter from the IRS letting her know that she owes penalties and interest on her late taxes. It was a tremendous amount of money, certainly at least 2 multiples of what my dad made in a given year.

              Kirstie was understandably upset and grew even more upset when my dad tried to tell her that it was her fault–not his, that she had been penalized by the IRS for late filing. There is an organization known as “World Institute of Scientology Enterprises” or WISE for short. Any company that purports to use Hubbard’s management tech is required to pay royalties to this Sea Org-staffed front group. Kirstie decided that she wanted to take the issue up with them and so sued my dad through the Church of Scientology.

              Scientology does not take facts or truth into consideration, something we all should know by now thanks to Jon Atack and Tony’s great coverage of utilitarian ethics. The only thing that matters in a civil dispute within Scientology and between Scientologists are the bridge status and various donation statuses of complainant and defendant. My dad was surely going to lose this arbitration and he did. Since suing another Scientologist in court is punished with immediate declare my dad felt he had no recourse. Scientology has taken over his life since all of his ‘friends’ and employers are Scientologists.

              He ended up having to fork over the cash to Kirstie in monthly payments. I don’t believe he had to pay all of it but it was enough that my family was left all but homeless for an extended period of time. Kirstie did not care about my sister or my bother or me who were all children that depended on this man to bring home the bacon. She knew this was her fault, but used her clout with the church to make me and my siblings pay for her mistake.

              I despise this woman with every fiber of my being.”

            • JustSheila

              Thanks, Robert. That’s disgusting! How abusive! WISE is simply a tool for the more ‘important’ members of COS to bully the lesser ones. Kirstie must have known only she could supply the tax info. Her lack of responsibility and scapegoating Derek’s father was greedy, childish and wicked.

              When WISE took over resolving all disputes between scns from the Chapltains and Ethics Officers and when even ethics interviews were video’d, all possible fairness went out the window. It’s now just a system where the higher the status in COS, the more bully power one scn company has over another or over an individual. The system is a farce. The only arbitration results are in accordance with who gives the bigger financial or PR benefits to scn’s leaders. It’s completely corrupt.

            • richelieu jr

              This certainly is despicable and I am no fan of Kirstie, either from the little I have seen of her in real-life (and during which I had no idea she was a Scilon), but if Ihad to point the finger here, it would be at the PA (these folks tend to be (or to become) CPFs (Close PErson Friends if not BFFs of their Celebs and any criticism of themis alife-threat as much as it was to Derek’s dad.

              My guess (based on F-all except your excerpt, Robert, and my life as an ex-Flavour-of-the-month and Hollywood fringe-dweller) is thatthe PA was at fault, perhaps havingbeen told by KA that she ‘was not to be disturbed’ or whatever, then when the damage because clear, denied it ad KA had to choose between her PA and Derek’s dad and in the manner of many celebs (and even civilians) who are and are not Scilons, chose to favour their friend, never giving a thought to the effects on Derek’s family (after all– if it turned out badly, they’d “pulled it in”, right? The fact that the arbitration went against them would have served as proof of this). This plus the fact that KA would never question a LRH institution and the fact that we tend not to question events/decisions in out favour would have ended it for her.

              I blame her for many things (even her weight, to the extent that she makes millions selling weight-loss systems and products that she must know are untrue (and if not- then selling LRH, which she should know even better is spelled BS)), but not necessarily this. There is no indication in Derek’s story of KA being reached by his father,only after, when it had gone wrong;

              She should have listened to him, of course. I think Derek is clearly capable of criticizing his folks when he feels they were in the wrong, so I have to trust his POV. But I suspect she was lied to by more than LRH and DM. My guess is the knife in his family’s back bears the fingerprints of KA’s PA.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          That is interesting. Scientology does a good job of turning decent people into jerks.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Height is something we have very little control over. A person’s height is measured from the top of his head to the sky.

      • OOkpik

        “Oh, and of course I respect your decision. It is your site. We all just comment here. And if you need to clean up the living room in your own home, I would never argue.”

        Thanks for this, Free. Agreed!

        I also agree that one should not be maligned and stigmatized for for things over which they have no control. Respectfully, I would like to see gay-bashing included with fat-shaming as a potentially painful focus of insensitive comments and jokes, not just on this blog, but in the real world. It only serves to perpetuate the ongoing stigmatization of those segments of society. 🙁

        That being said, gays, people with disabilities, “non-standard” physical attributes, etc., are generally no less capable of indulging in some good clean humour than anyone else. Mindfulness is key.

        Occasionally a person’s behavior is just so outrageous and reprehensible that boundaries are understandably pushed around a bit when it comes to J&D . . . Hi, Davey!

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I agree totally, including about gay bashing – and also agree that some people should be mocked just because they are evil and don;t have a sense of humor. So there, little DM. Ha!

        • thetastic

          That’s how I feel about jokes about hoping people will be sodomized in jail. Those jokes make me so uncomfortable. Why is that an acceptable punishment to hope for?

    • Richard

      I think that Media Lush believes he is an investigative journalist on the same par as our proprietor. Sadly, there could not be a bigger difference between Tony Ortega and him.

      However, someone who quite obviously passes the best part of the day reading mostly trash internet sites, is, once in a while, going to hit on a good story, and Lush has had his moments of glory. But he is a bit like the Daily Mail; a few good stories and a whole bunch of nonsense.

      In all honesty, I didn’t mind him, simply because I can ignore his comments and read other people’s comments if I want to. However, those comments are published and are here on the Bunker, and many of them don’t look good.

      One thing I could never understand, is his obsession with Tom Cruise, starting with his avatar. Admittedly, Cruise is a jerk, but Media Lush often comes across as being on about the same level. More recently, he has switched his attention to Kirstie Alley. But have these two people actually harmed Media Lush personally? I doubt it, but you would think to the contrary, with the amount of hostility he has spewed on them.

      If there is one thing that is not going to bring down Scientology, it is smearing people in this way, the same way that Scientology itself does with people.

      Anyway, I wish him the best, all the same.

      • Jeb Burton

        I did enjoy the colorful names he would cuss me out with. But he is a creepy putz.

      • Sarcasmo

        Never got the Tom Cruise obsession. Maybe it’s just celebrity in general? I got some occasional laughs, but Hollywood type tabloids bore me 99% of the time so I never spend any time at Bollocks. So many examples of bad behaviour to focus on with TC, Kirstie, DLHDM, etc., so I don’t see why going for the grade school playground insults needs to be one’s bread and butter.

      • james hollingsworth

        Hi Tony, while I did find ML’s shoop of Kirstie very funny, it was very mean-spirited and juvenile, like something that OSA might do. Just because the Co$ does things like that doesn’t mean that we Bunkerites should do them also. We are nice people. Thanks for steering us (and me) in the right direction.

      • joan nieman

        Well said Richard.

      • Cara

        The problem with him is sometimes he gets an incorrect info, and treats it as facts without checking. An example of that is when he said had sources to confirm that the production of Mission Impossible 5 stopped and the film was going to be cancelled because of going clear(we all wished that). He seemed pretty confident with his info to the point where I believed him. It ended up being completely wrong info. That is when he sort of toned down on the Cruise thing and focused more on Kristie since she is easier.

      • ThetaBara

        It’s not just more recently. He’s been doing it for years. He’s also posted really violent imagery/ideas which are problematic and unhelpful.
        I try to ignore/avoid the mean ones but it does reflect on the site overall. Good riddance.

    • Vaquera

      Thank you.

    • Racnad

      Frankly, I believe all the snarkiness in the comments section here sometimes makes the intelligent & informed comments more difficult to find, and tends to confirm the Scientologists coming here that we are a posse of religious bigots. I can do without jokes about how fat or short someone is, and Tom Cruise is barely relevant when he just makes movies and keeps his mouth shut about religion & psychiatry.

      Some people with cry Freedom of Speech but that has never meant saying anything you want anywhere anyhow. If you can’t be respectful to the space you’re in, take it elsewhere, or make your own space.

      • Xenuvius

        Religious bigots? Surely you don’t classify Scientology as a religion, do you?

        • Racnad

          No but Scientologists having doubts often go through a stage where they are seeing a lot of things wrong but still believe LRH had a lot to offer the world. While Tony’s blogs may be difficult for True Believers to read they are factual and aren’t mean to people who don’t deserve meanness, many of the snarky comments are what the Church warn them they would find.

      • Saint

        I guess I find celebs “fair game” insofar as they are PR tools. Even if TC is currently quiet, he established his brand as an ambassador and that’s how it will be. I think the issue is there is a line between general J&D and gratuitous ad hominem attacks. Tony owns this bar, his choice when to 86.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          But that’s exactly how it starts! Justifying something you would in fact criticize Scientologists for or other groups. And yet, doing the exact same thing.

          There is a handy dandy do-it-yourself Spot the Undue Influence question/list from Open Minds Foundation Org

          I highly recommend one and all here bookmark it and hopefully get a little familiar with it.
          I think with this issue of Media Lush today it’s a good time to suggest it. I have found it personally helpful and hope it will help others too. This site is well tailored for practicing exactly what is laid out in the website. It speaks to far more than just little old shriveling as we speak Scientology too. Oh, and I noticed numerous features/qualities could be said of some trolls too.

          Spotting Undue Influences
          http://openmindsfoundation.org/spot-undue-influence/

          Categories, flushed out in some detail, include:

          Unwavering Commitment
          Elitism
          Changes in Character/Inability to Assess Information
          Black and White Thinking
          Shunning, in any scenario
          Attack of the critic, not the argument
          Dismissal of external authority
          “This is by no means a complete list, but it does detail some of the more prevalent, readily identifiable factors. Other characteristics commonly associated with undue influence are:

          Poor self-care
          Induced Phobias
          Extreme Shame / Guilt
          Loaded Language
          Us against them
          Unreasonable / unrealistic expectations
          Denial of evidence or opposing information
          Limitations on communication
          Elaborate rituals

          • Qbird

            Hey, u ok THDNE? bad bad weather there for you.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              no problemo

          • Saint

            I will read the material but I’m at work and cannot at this time. I mean “fair game” in terms of teasing. I am not and never have been a gunner, someone who applies consistent hostile or aggressive force to another. I do think it is one thing to tease someone involved in PR (Tommy Davis, TC, Kirstie Alley) and just a Regl’r Joe Scientologist. Distinctions can be made and given the use of celebrities by COS, should be made.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Okay then. Just a piece of advice: using the term “fair game” has only One meaning, so if that’s Not what you mean, maybe audition some other terms.

            • Saint

              Ha! I thought the quotes did that; was trying to be tongue in cheek. I guess I wound up with foot in mouth. Thanks!

      • Saint

        There have been times that is the case, usually when people are getting a bit goofy or punchy. I would agree on those days (slow news days?). On balance, I do not think snarkiness is overmuch. Humor is ok, it is healthy, and it is discouraged in That Other Place. I think Tony’s right to hope for a balance, and also right if he wants to address it when there may be too much of one thing. Blanket application of the principle seems to fly in the face of the general community support for timely “J&D Tech.” Too much of one thing or the other, fine, but this community is pretty self-policing. Tony’s had to cull the herd a time or two, but given the subject, given the exposure for trolls, and given the emotions involved, not too shabby for a site on the fringe of the internet.

    • Supper Powers

      Thank you.

    • MarcabExpat

      Good call, and good reasons. Not that he was a worthless commenter by any means, and I’ll miss some of his content, but he just had no judgment. The Bunker isn’t Page Six and it sure as hell isn’t Perez Hilton.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        This echoes how I feel about it, thank you.

    • jimwendt

      I don’t come here too often- just check in from time to time. Who is “Media Lush”? I see no reference in the above article to such a person and a word search shows no comment by this person.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        He has been removed from commenting. You will find his own website at Scientology Bollocks.

    • Kay

      THANK YOU !!!! I have had real issues with some of his postings, which I have frankly found offensive.

    • Meepthorp

      I never paid much attention to ML. I just visited his website for the first time. Looks like he’s built his own platform to speak from. So, no harm done by revoking his privileges here. He doesn’t own the Bunker.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      No opinion and I do understand. Most of the time if he commented was good, and amsure he’s a nice fellow. But there were times I would cringe at how some posts looked on the Bunker and they did reflect poorly.

    • Linda Clement

      You’re absolutely right. If people need to throw personal insults around, they can always find it on Twitter. Discussion and genuine humor are a whole nother animal and the two do not mix. Okay, I’m really getting off the Internet this time before my caregiver gets here and gives me That Look.

      ETA: This is it, I promise. I just wanted to say that, for the sake of kindness, I do wish you all would try to go a little easier on the Bunkeroos who adhere to religious beliefs, and be a little more supportive on the rare occasions when they talk about themselves. I know this is an extremely painful issue for most former $cientologists and in your shoes I would likely have less tolerance than you do. I am not criticizing. I’ve just seen some people here be hurt and it hurts me.

      Oh, s!!#$€¥***!!! she’s at the door!

      • thetastic

        Thanks for this. I know I’m afraid to mention having a religious affiliation here, because I think people won’t like me because of it.

        • Linda Clement

          You are very welcome. I’m glad you have found a faith that works for you. Kudos for speaking up.

          The Bunkeroos are the kindest, most compassionate internet community that I have ever come across. I truly feel privileged to be here. There is a society-wide blind spot to prejudice against spirituality in any form. People who would never say anything unkind about any other group of people seem not to recognize the difference between debate on atheism vs. spirituality and offensive commentary toward persons. On any other subject the difference is clearly recognized.

        • Baby

          Thetastic.. Just wrote this to Linda
          …………..
          OMG.. I believe in God.. from the tip of my toes to my head.. Very spiritual.. I do not attend church..

          I’m not into organized religion.. but I certainly understand those that do. PS.. I have mentioned this many times and no one has questioned me Linda..

          I don’t need to prove it.. I have faith.. I see God every time I look into my Grandchildren’s eyes. ( forgot to add to LInda.. I pray daily.. just talk to God out of the blue..)

          • thetastic

            Thanks, Baby.

      • Baby

        OMG.. I believe in God.. from the tip of my toes to my head.. Very spiritual.. I do not attend church..

        I’m not into organized religion.. but I certainly understand those that do. PS.. I have mentioned this many times and no one has questioned me Linda..

        I don’t need to prove it.. I have faith.. I see God every time I look into my Grandchildren’s eyes.

        • Linda Clement

          It was a grandmother saying the same thing that made me realize that there is more to religious beliefs than misapplied logic. I’m so glad you have this experience!

          What most non-believers seem to object to is the dogma. I’ve never seen anyone personally attacked on the Bunker, just offensive terminology applied to religious beliefs of all varieties. Having grown up in the Bible Belt (an area including parts of the southern and Midwestern US where Christianity is particularly prevalent) I’ve seen a lot of the destructive potential of fundamentalist beliefs, up to and including murder, bombings, and some horrific child abuse. Some of it is burned into my brain and occasionally pops out as a nightmare.

          But I am a pushover for good people, and some of the best and happiest people I know are Christian. Their personal experiences of God weigh more heavily in their thinking than the dogma of their respective churches, but they are very definitely loyal to those churches. I find myself unable to completely discount any part of their lives that produces such goodness.

          • Baby

            Yes I agree.. I am very private with my belief.. It’s no secret..but it has rarely come up.. If a poster comes on and says pray or send positive energy my way…

            I always inform them that I will send my Guardian Angel to her side immediately..

            There are many atheists and I respect their belief also. I always try to live by ” Do unto others..” but sometimes I fail when I get gabbing as a critic.

    • Robert Eckert

      I agreed with Dodo’s advice to him that the tasteless Kirstie shoop was particularly bad at a time when we will be getting a lot of first-time viewers. I had a big go-round with him around the time the Monique Rathbun trial was starting when I didn’t think his nasty language was what a first-time visitor ought to see; at that time he never expressed agreement but did for a while confine his cruder outbursts to his own site. This time, however, Lush just got belligerent with Dodo about it, and putting down salin was very uncalled-for as well. It’s sad to lose a long-time poster, but I can’t fault your judgment on this call.

      In memoriam of Media Lush, his kind of story: http://pagesix.com/2016/03/30/suri-cruise-fires-her-music-teacher-over-creative-differences/

    • TexasBroad

      As others have said, he has his own blog so those that miss him can still find him. I will miss his kitteh gifs and bonus videos. He often had comments I appreciated. He often had comments I did not. Last night didn’t make any sense. His post with the Kirstie shoop inherently acknowledged he knew he was going too far and then he started personally attacking everyone who offered the opinions he’d requested. It really was bizarre. You use the banhammer sparingly and I can certainly see that last night was the proverbial straw.

      • Linda Clement

        I caught some of it. He came across as angry to the point of vengeful. There’s humor and there’s humor meant to hurt. He didn’t seem able to control himself.

        I would never tease an actress about her weight. Being overweight and starting her own line of weight-loss products … no, I just can’t poke fun at someone that divorced from reality.

      • Robert Eckert

        I would suspect that he was drunk posting last night.

      • littlefish

        I too was drunk lurking so I’m not sure, but I didn’t understand the comments he was making about having more upvotes to downvotes ratio to others as insults. That’s what pushed it over the line for me. Also – Kirstie is terrible – but her being fat has nothing to do with her being terrible and it’s gross to conflate the two.

    • Bavarian Rage

      Standards of participation here are good, and as long as someone is warned they’re crossing a line (or it’s glaringly obvious to all) their own choice to proceed in an off limits vein seals their fate.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I understand this decision (oh, you do, do you? Ed.) and I’m certain it wasn’t taken lightly.

      • Jeb Burton

        So I guess this means jokes about a certain authors short shorts when he’s strutting around Clearwater Beach are no longer allowed. Sorry about that.

    • Bob

      Tony, I’ve visited many different blog sites. IMHO you are very lenient in allowing commenters a broad spectrum of comments, posts, shoops, links and interactions with other commenters. This site has provided hours of informative reading from your articles and from so many great bunkerites.
      MLs erratic comments are in stark contrast to the preponderance of intelligent, useful, funny thought provoking comments.
      This blog does represent the highest standards of Internet interactions.
      Thanks Tony and bunkerites for keeping it that way.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        This blog does represent the highest standards of Internet interactions.

        You’ve obviously never read comments from flyonthewall and Jimmy3 😉

        • Bob

          Hahaha! I have dared to read your comments and I’m still standing.:-)

          • ThetaBara

            You didn’t even get pneumonia?!

    • MereCatWatcher

      I have to agree. I happened to drop in when media plush was at his worst last night asking for opinions about his awful shoop and attacking viciously anyone who didn’t like it. I too appreciated his contribution sometimes but often used collapse thread tech on him.

    • Linda Clement

      I wonder how weird Kirstie Alley will feel about being defended from unkindness by Tony Ortega?

      • thetastic

        Best post evah!

    • pluvo

      I missed the last episode of media lush, but I had the impression that he misused (trolled) the Underground Bunker to get clicks to his own site. His style of making fun was not to my taste at all, but I found it to be cheap and offensive mostly.

      • Dice

        This^^^

    • daisy

      I would very much appreciate it if you could reassign a person to post Lush*s gifs . Do not assign me I barely make it here everyday. I am also very busy making sure the bar is stocked.

      • Dice

        Yeah! i liked those too

    • joan nieman

      I thought Media Lush’s comments were tabloid crap. It always made such a contrast with the serious and “clean” fun commenters. The world doesn’t need anymore shaming and we are all past our teenage years. We certainly should have acquired some intelligence by now. Carry on Bunker!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      While it is always sad to lose a long time Bunkeroo, you know I’m agreement on many points you make. I appreciate your asking for opinions.

    • Dice

      Some Mod’s do reinstate unusual people after some time. Like a month! People can and do change.
      He did had his click-bait “shop” in his corner of the bunker and it’s a very common rule, in chat forums, not to divert traffic to your own site. In some places, there is zero tolerance on this!
      You have giving him lot’s of room and tolerance to do his “shoop-shop”! – imo.
      He had a “bad hair day” or something else that was provoking him, but i did see a “build up” that looked like frustration and i have no idea who he was or what he was doing with this event last night.

      Just my few thoughts on this.

    • Joe

      This may sound terrible, but I have no clue who this person was. Did they comment a lot?

      I agree that fat shaming is wrong. K.A. isn’t a bad person because she’s heavy, it’s because she’s rude, bitter, and enables and supports a dangerous cult.

      Also, and I know that this is going to get a lot of rotten fruit tossed at me, but I don’t even like it when DM is made fun of because he’s short. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a complete sociopathic megalomaniac and I feel like his height is part of what makes him insecure and lash out at others because of some inferiority complex, but being someone who isn’t tall and who was mocked a lot for it, seeing insults being directed at him about being short, as if that in itself is a terrible, completely awful physical trait to have, is honestly hurtful. But I assume everyone here is an adult and I’m not about to tell people what to do or say.

    • Flying High

      Understood as even these celebrities, including freedom medal winners, who are still in are indeed blind and unaware of what’s truly going on. Take one of the first freedom medal winners, Andrik Schapers, who brought in millions upon millions for the ‘church’ as a poster child for the IAS. In the end when he needed help he had to go to the outside world where compassion exists to acquire funds for his cancer treatment. – http://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-hang-your-heads-in-shame/ – Thus it is our knowledge and our compassion that we never lost that will win out in the end and through our interactions here along the lines of sanity we will always out think and out create the evil think tank!

      • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

        The link didn’t work for me… :/

        • Flying High

          Sorry about that as just learned not to place links inside parentheses. All fixed now!

    • beauty for ashes

      Thank you for being strongly against fat shaming. From the heart of my bottom Tony <3 <3 <3

    • Sh00pZ

      I’ve posted a few Kirstie shoops that I see now may have been seen as fat shaming. Honestly, my intention was to illustrate the ridiculousness of a Scientologist with upper level OT superpowers who self-medicates with food. That intention may not have been clear, however. If anyone finds any of my shoops offensive please tell me.

    • Mary Smith

      I liked him.

      • Baby

        I liked him too Mary and I will miss him. I love celebrity gossip. He just crossed the line..

        • Mary Smith

          I didn’t see what Tony was referring to. I just enjoyed most of his comments.

    • Baby

      I absolutely agree 100% Tony… I just saw this comment. I was waiting for him to blast me when I made a comment to him about Kirstie.. That was it for me too.. Good Call.
      xo baby

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Springsong call your Dad!! It’s not too late. Someday it will be and you’ll regret that you didn’t have this time with him.

    Cannot wait to watch this video. Love Allison.

  • FredEX2

    It seems nearly every day we hear about a new and daring hero or heroine standing up against the destructive policies & the evil machine that is COB’s CoS. Continue to be brave and never give up Brian Sheen! You’ll find many friends and support here at the Bunker!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Yep. Who’s next? We know you’re lurking. Come out and make your voice heard. Jump….the net is already here.

  • Jeb Burton

    This guy sounds a little nutty. In my opinion, he shouldn’t of tried tell her what a fraud LRH is. My parents are nuttyborn again Christians. It leads nowhere to talk religion.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Yes, he’s fumbling a bit with his ideas but give him time, he’ll figure it out. A father, grieving the loss of the relationship with his daughter, might not always do the right thing but his heart is in the right place. He will figure out what is right for his relationship with her eventually. Or she’ll wake up to the insanity and seek him out.

      At least for now, he knows she’s safe and healthy and she knows he’s there if she runs.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        And now I’m finding myself disagreeing with NOLAgirl. What the hell is going on here? 🙂
        I don’t think you give Brian the full credit he deserves. And with that credit, there comes a heap of responsibility.

        There are so many who have taking the painstaking steps to do research, write books, do the hard scientific stuff, and while there is no one concensus, there are certain basics to learn about and use in this whole confounded process.

        Maybe he got some bad advice, I don’t know. But anyone trying to reach a loved on in groups like Scientology has a cornucopia of sound research as well as a full open community to help guide. I just cannot imagine anyone suggesting to him that he go in full barrel on the deep booby-trapped, embedded core – the Hubbard as an advisable approach. I hope he learns from this – it’s much easier to do now – with a more effective reach. My 2 1/2 cents.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I don’t disagree with you. 😀

          If Brian has better ways in store to communicate with his daughter I applaud them and look forward to hearing about them.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Oh. Order has been restored again in the Guhlaxy:)

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Agree/Disagree – I’ll love ya either way. ; )

    • Coming from you, that’s like a honey badger saying somebody is a bit testy.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Dying to make a “honey badger don’t give a f**k” joke. 😀

        • PickAnotherID

          Here’s a start:

          “A honey badger walked into a bar…”

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            …sits down and tells everyone he got kicked off the LSU football team for being dumb enough to get caught with weed in his system.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrann_Mathieu

            Actually, that’s not very funny. 😀

            • FredEX2

              Are y’all talking about my Honey Badger?

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Edited.

              Nope. Not that one. 😀

            • FredEX2

              Girl you’ve already had enough coffee! 😘 I take that back! There’s no such thing.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I wish. I have already yelled at a teenager to get moving, does that count? 😀

            • FredEX2

              Close enough! Mom’s of teenagers definitely get a Hall Pass! 😄

            • FredEX2

              LOL

            • ReallyMGM

              I remember him. Interesting hair. #hottytoddy

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              LOL See you on the field in September honey. 😀

              (Psssst…hell of a draft class y’all have this year. 👍)

            • ReallyMGM

              LMAO! I just had to say it!
              Yikes, its in Death Valley this year!
              Today’s post is so depressing it’s good to have a laugh over something.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Soon it will be time for training camps and life can return to normal. 🙂

              (((hugs))) Don’t let today’s post get you down. It’s another person, out of the church, vocally working against disconnection. We can never know if something he may have said to her made her think. Keep faith that this story, and many more, will have a good ending. ❤

        • FredEX2

          Here’s one NOLAGirl ( at least I think it’s supposed to be a joke )
          Dang! Forgot to add the pic before I posted. See below.

          • FredEX2

            Honey Badger joke. ( sort-of )

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Hahaha!! Didn’t see the pic, so my post is edited to make sense now. Need. More. Coffee. 🙂

    • aquaclara

      Fortunately, Brian is guided by his own instincts. I’m delighted he had the chance to tell his daughter that LRH is a fraud. After all, he was. And it’s that fraud that continues to rip his family apart under the tax-fraud guise of religion.

      When a former member starts to really see things as they are, it’s incredibly helpful that they share what they’ve observed and discovered. The Debbie Cook letter, Jenna Miscavige Hill’s book, Phil’s billboard, Going Clear….I could go on and on. OF COURSE it helps.

      And this is his daughter. Brian is not about to let your comment override his ability to try to reach out to his daughter. She may not be in a position to hear him now, but give it time. That’s how the bubble starts to dissipate.

      • Jeb Burton

        To smack her in the face with “everything you believe is wrong”, just seems you need to delicately work your way into it. And the guy sounds surprised they would rip down his indictments. I assume he is an ex.

        • aquaclara

          Read what he wrote. Try #11.

      • Peter

        Well, let’s give Hubbard his due. Without him, none of us would be here on this informative and often entertaining blog. We’d most likely not know each other at all. Many friendships would not have been made. I can add one major item for myself: I would never have met the magnificent woman with whom I share this life. Thank you, Ron, for all of this positivity.

    • Roger Hornaday

      But Hubbard IS a fraud and that is not a belief like your parents’ Christianity. It is a FACT which can be argued logically. It cannot be refuted logically. When you state an unwelcome fact to somebody, it sticks and bears fruit. Therefore our gentleman is not “a little nutty” but is employing the time-honored device of planting seeds of truth.

      • Whatever the motives, confrontation may not be the best idea. It makes people dig their heels in. If we were ruled by logic we would have pointy ears. Human beings often make decisions for emotional reasons. It’s not logical, captain, but there it is.

        I think that exes typically get the process of disaffection backwards. It seems to me that what happens is that Scientology starts to treat them outrageously badly and, looking for a way out, they start to consider taking sources they have known about for years seriously.

        The problem is not pointing out the “unpleasant facts”, it’s persuading a believer to take them seriously. Strangely, it often seems to me to be Scientology that motivates this, not critics.

        • Roger Hornaday

          Calling the father “nutty” may not be the most understanding or sympathetic adjective to describe his dealings with his own daughter. I felt inclined to defend the poor guy against that harsh judgement. We would not have pointy ears if we were ruled by logic. Logic can be consistent with emotion but when it’s not it must be allowed to trump emotion, never the other way around. Nobody ever regretted letting reason take precedence over their emotions.

          • The man has made mistakes. So have I. I agree that calling him “nutty” isn’t right.

            His dillema is shared by many. Do you confront the person who has disconnected from you in the hope that they will see how wrong the situation is? If you do, you risk making matters worse. If you don’t, they will likely go on as they are, until one of you dies, and it’s too late.

            He chose to confront. It’s his decision, and I hope it works.

            What I was trying to say was that humans don’t make decisions on rational grounds. For example, a young person who risks their life to rescue an old person is, quite properly, treated as a hero. That’s not a rational transaction. It is, however, a human one.

            There is a dark side to this, exemplified by Scientology. The power of emotion, and our social nature can be exploited. We put ratinality aside here, too, but in this case it is the wrong thing to do.

            We need to listed to both head and heart and getting the balance right is crucial.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The Reckoning or the end of the world must be near because I find myself agreeing with you for the most part. I say this knowing there are some basic steps of first discovery, then recovery than you have to take in a certain order. Exposing Hubbard for who and what he really was is never at the top.

  • PickAnotherID

    Posted this around midnight under yesterday’s “Billboard” story, but thought it was worth repeating for the ‘early birds’:

    “Out here on the south east coast a bunch from our local book club saw
    the reports on GMA and Today this morning. And to put it mildly, they
    were stunned that $cientology gets away with using “disconnection” to
    control people. Their most common comments being along the lines of,
    “What kind of sick church puts itself ahead of families?” Keep in mind
    these are mostly southern seniors, with lots of kids, grandkids, and
    greatgrandkids without a lot of exposure to $cientology, except reading
    TUBML a while back. Long story short, they’ve declared war on
    $cientology’s attacks on families, and are spreading the word to friends
    and family to look at StopScientologyDisconnection.c…
    and support it as much as possible. They’re also filing IRS Form
    13909’s and writing letters demanding an investigation into why a
    “church” is spending so much money on nonreligious activities, e.g.,
    private eyes, interfering with other peoples contracts, harassment of
    critics, etc.”

    Note: Part of the “Long story short…” was everyone getting the https://www.gofundme.com/reconnectingfamily URL.

    Note for OSA readers: Miscavige’s implementations of Hubbard’s policies regarding family are getting “civilians”, who never had anything to do with $cientology or it’s critics before, pissed off. Think long and hard about that.

    • salin

      What a smile inducing report!

    • aquaclara

      ^^^^^^

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      This is incredible! Thanks for re-sharing. You gave me my first big smile of the morning (PT which is impressive, I usually don’t smile until AFTER 6:00am 😉

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      This is such excellent news.

    • Linda Clement

      This is a good illustration of why Tom Cruise is still relevant to the $cientology story. His fame attracts media attention, and media attention is what’s draining the Shrinking Church dry.

      According to Nick Lister’s interview on YouTube, Cruise disconnected his 14-year-old niece from her entire family. He sent her to Florida and wouldn’t even allow her to speak with her mother.

      While $cientology’s disconnection policy is a hot topic in the news, do you suppose some enterprising journalist might be interested in finding out what happened to this child whose family was stolen from her and perhaps ask Mr. Cruise to share his thoughts on the matter?

      • daisy

        IIRC Nick said that his niece was now in the SO. ( I have a very bad memory, but no one else was answering. Don’t count on it being entirely accurate )

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Sweet.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    A brave couple, Willie and Phil
    Decided their sorrow to spill.
    With the “Call Me” billboard,
    Co$ was grievously gored.
    Now the media are in for the kill

    Hobbes said “Life is brutish, nasty and short.”
    “He speaks of DM” quickly came the retort.
    To inflict pain
    Is his domain.
    He loves to sunder, break and extort.

    Another tale of disconnection,
    A “Church” calls for rejection.
    A small sociopath
    Exerts his vile wrath,
    Leaving sorrow and dejection.

  • Xique

    The photo of Paulette and Brian is so nice. 2 people who know how it really feels to go up against the worst of humankind. Inspiring to say the least.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      That made my heart swell, too!

  • Fink Jonas

    “you need to go to the church”
    it’s interesting to see how she thinks as if his dad was the one astray. I know is not her fault that’s how one think when indoctrinated by that church, but actually to the church the whole world at large is astray and only the ones in are good enough to belong, is just the totalitarian church way of thinking; the whole world in line and at their disposition no questions asked or you out, yeah that’s a church that I want to see grow, NOT.

  • Victor

    I’m glad Mr. Sheen found strength in connecting with people who suffer the same fate. This disconnection policy will one day be the end of Scientology. For every person disconnecting they are making a multitude of bad impressions on people in the ‘real’ world.

    • FredEX2

      Yes. Disconnection and Fair Game policies are two of their ‘ruins’.

      • ReallyMGM

        Sea Org abortions are on the list too.

        • FredEX2

          That too. Definitely.

  • PickAnotherID

    Today is “Draw a Bird Day”. The story of it’s origins go back to 1943 England, and can be found here: http://www.dabday.com/ While a bit sad, it’s a story about family, so not totally off topic. Give it a read, then go draw a bird. Edit to add a little help for those, like myself, who are not artistically inclined (f5):

    http://downloadclipart.org/do-upload/clipart/2016-03/Draw_a_Picture_of_a_Bird_Day.jpg

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Farewell, Miss Lovely

    He walked across the room and turned down the volume.
    On a Saturday night too, damn it.
    That Saturday night in August of ’61, at the Blackhawk, Miles had not been interrupted by an insistent phone.
    Harry muted his trumpet for him now.

    “Bosch”

    “Harry, ya gotta come in – another b.t. at Ripley’s.”

    Bosch stopped for a moment – that made 47 in the last month.
    And all at Ripleys, believe it or not.

    “O.K., I’m on my way.
    Be there in half an hour.”

    Marlowe had been on his last legs when this all started.
    Chandler was drowning in tears for Cissy, drowning in booze too.
    Christ, Charley Parker played Storyville the month it first went down.
    J.J.”Jake” Gittes had been too jaundiced, too cynical to solve it.
    Bosch was going to have to do this one on his own.
    It was gonna be like picking up his teeth with broken fingers.

    B.t.s had been turning up all over LA for years.
    There had been a rash of them down Tampa ways
    since the ’70s, all unsolved, all unclaimed.
    This new constellation was taking it to the next level, though.

    That 47 bothered him. He would need a FBI profiler to look at it.
    He thought of his ex. She could … Nah…

    What did he know for sure.
    Rice ‘n beans were key.
    Mebbe he should stop by that new Mexican cantina –
    he was starving.

    Toilet paper was a clue.
    But what was RPF?
    What the hell was OT IX?

    And who was Shelly?
    Shelley, that was easy ( Bysshe, Christ, that’s weirder than Bosch, [or his paintings]) – dude died in Sardinia.
    But Shelly – whew!
    Just vanished, what, 7-8 years ago…

    And then there was “Chew” Baca, ex-Chief of Police, grinning over it all like “une eminence grise,”
    crooked as a dog’s pee in the snow.
    He might be the weak link (or the missing …)
    If he wasn’t in the clink.

    And the “Philboard” scandal too –
    who fixed the companies so they broke their contracts?
    Was it Billboard Baggins?

    “Sweet Exorcist” from the Isley Brothers came on the car radio.

    • FredEX2

      Pan, wish you had your own podcast so we could listen to you read your very creative poems and stories in a deep gravelly story-telling voice.

    • chukicita

      Bonus points for the Michael Connolly voice.

      And “Chew” Baca. 😀

      • jazzlover

        No, real bonus points for a reference to the best Miles/Mobley record in existence!

        • Mark Foster

          Homey worked Charlie Parker, The Hobbit, and Raymond Chandler´s wife Cissy into the mix. Dude is like Dexter Gordon, a veritable treasure-trove of quotes and allusions, dexterously(heh) and artfully dropped… 🙂

          • jazzlover

            LOL. I just decided to focus on the reference to the most important musician to have ever lived 😉

    • dchoiceisalwaysrs

      Why am I thinking of Sherlock Holmes, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, and Columbo all at the same time?

  • aquaclara

    Posting his message of freedom at the Fort Harrison, knocking on his daughter’s door–love the direct and simple approaches Brian is using. Maybe we can collectively think of a few more today. This is the sound of parents finally being heard — and the message starts getting out that there is much, much more out here than inside.

    So glad Brian got to see his daughter, even though it may not have been the ultimate family reunion. When she sees the billboard, she’ll know it’s also a message from her dad.

    Scientology, there is no way you win this. And Brian, good luck.

    • FredEX2

      Well said!

    • AnyOldName1

      How about the blackmail / extortion angle you mentioned? Seems that is actually a criminal act.

  • TexasBroad

    Glad to hear the Fauteux received the money raised for them. Thanks, GoFundMe.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Good on the Go Fund Me company – well done!

    I don’t understand people who are mad at people who are trying desperately to see them… i.e. Parents trying to reconnect with their children. These kids need to give themselves a smack to the side of the head – love drives parents like this… it would be so much easier to GIVE UP… but they don’t!

    Do you think Miscavige could be caught/outed in this Panama docs drama? http://www.vice.com/read/why-you-should-care-about-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca

    • PickAnotherID

      MV Freewinds is registered in Panama. Connection?

      • EnthralledObserver

        It is suspicious… yes. I wouldn’t mind betting someone would find something if they looked hard enough.

    • Unfortunately, the company leaked has few American clients — just ex-pats or dead guys like Bobby Fisher or Stanley Kubrick.

      http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/why-are-so-few-americans-named-in-the-panama-papers-1.2850790

      • PickAnotherID

        Anything on the IAS, located in England?

        • That’s what they told the IRS, but that’s news to Companies House in the UK: no record.

          Category:International Association of Scientologists

          • PickAnotherID

            It still seems ‘off’ somehow that Miscavige has switched gears from ‘hours of auditing’ to ‘increase your status by donating to the IAS’. With many IAS events for ‘whales’ on the Freewinds, which is registered in Panama and never docks in the US. It’s a money pipeline of some kind, but moving money to where??

            • They used to have part of it as Foundation International Membership Services Administrations in Curaçao, but Americanized it in 2007 via Delaware to IAS Administrations, Inc.

              That’s just where the companies are based. There’s no telling where those companies have accounts, and if they report those assets to anyone.

      • EnthralledObserver

        From what I understand these days Miscavige isn’t surrounded by Americans in his slave force, they are foreigners – best check those Russian names, I reckon.

  • Couch_Incident

    I wonder if these stories resonate with Scilon parents with underage children.

    This is the future you might face if you stay in, indoctrinate the kids, and then outgrow Scn yourself. If you can get your significant other to join you or if you can expect custody, get out now and take the kids with you.

    • UhLasare

      This.

  • Narapoid

    I watched that great interview on LipTv last night and Nora was terrific and open. Gotta love her.

    Kind of a rant this morning… Boy, this disconnection policy that does not exist seems to be bringing a lot of upset people out. In Brian’s case they wanted him to rejoin a “religion” he had left decades ago. He came, he saw, decided it was not for him, he left. That’s the way it is in America. The broken “ethics” officer felt arrogantly justified to tell him come in and supplicate yourself to this rejected system and pay them thousands of dollars to do it.

    Otherwise, you’ll never see your kid again.

    Another case of not being able to leave well enough alone. No, no, nobody inside these walls can have ANY meaningful contact with anyone who is not all-the-way in. Brian would have been in a better spot if he had NEVER taken a course.

    GOSA, this is why all this crap is being pulled in.

    Third Party GOSA. Ever hear of it? Springsong may have been having an issue with your squirrelly tech and to have a place to blame it on, to transfer the failure of your money pump onto anyone but you, you chose her daddy, Brian. And once again, because of your backward, sadistic and grotesquely short-sighted action, you are pulling in blow back.

    You thought he would just go away and be quiet? You started this shit to squeeze a few bucks from someone and now it is a Volcano of Black PR. And it will never, never, never, never, NEVER go away as long as Brian draws a breath. Love (not on Hubbard’s emotional tone scale) is powerful and will not stop.

    This is why your movement is dying. It is not OT powers that make convenient parking spaces at you Ideal Morgue. What does bringing ruin to these families have to do with clearing the planet?

    O/T GOSA, how is the hunt for the new Scientology Spokesman? We have been missing Tommy Davis since he blew his post. 5 years and no one but Catherine out in Hemet running film crews off the road and the sweet and soft-spoken Jenny Linson with her two escorts gently chiding Marty Rathbun at LAX. They are the defacto face and voice of your church.

    Just have Tommy run his A-Es, get back on post and make it go right. After all, that’s what you wanted Brian to do, and he wasn’t even in the church.

    • salin

      Rant On!!

      • Mark Foster

        I agree, salin 🙂

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Awwwwwwww!! GoFundMe you have my heart all squishy. What an incredibly kind thing to do.

    • Jimmy3

      Please go see a doctor, NOLA. Squishy heart doesn’t sound normal.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I get squishy heart around here all the time Jimmy. I think it may be a chronic condition at this point. I also think my Dr. would prescribe something mixed or shaken in ice. 🙂

        • Mark Foster

          Or he might give you the super-sized, bubbling inhaler…Ya know I HAD to continue my running cannabis joke with you…

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            😀

          • gtsix

            Not in Louisiana he wouldn’t! Their medical marijuana law limits access to patients with one of 3 specific diseases, and the MJ that a patient can eventually get access to will not be in smokable form (per 2015 legislature that passed allowing dispensaries to grow and open, and will take 2 years or so to get actually up and running).

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    What wonderful news about GoFundMe. That makes my day.

    • Polly Anna

      Once again despite the teachings of Scientology, empathy motivates, and greed destroys!

  • Polly Anna

    The problem that I see with Co$ is that when you utilize subtle hypnosis and extortion to control people, they may not realize the depth of their own deception including Springsong who demonstrate the same type mentality of long term prisoners who bond with their guards no matter how abusive. If you have ever seen someone hypnotized, it is obvious they are not fully aware of their own actions.

    The other thing that has been nagging me are the numbers of people like Rinder and Rathbun who leave, speak out, and want to be seen as heroes for doing so, truly have one main goal; to take down Miscavige that they view as the problem. Many still believe in every “process” and the “tech” of LRH and fail to recognize that he is not the “source” of good, but rather the source of what destroyed their lives through deceit, greed, narcissism, and fraud. It is natural to look for the good in our lives, but it is also sad when we cannot recognize where we went wrong.

    • TonyOrtega

      I think you mischaracterize Mike Rinder. If anything, he’s played down his role in the tsunami of bad press overwhelming Scientology in recent years. And I’m pretty certain he’s actually turned down far more media than he’s ever agreed to do.

      • Polly Anna

        I don’t assume the media attention is sought and I truly admire those who speak out. I just find it sad that some cling so tightly to the LRH mind twisting “tech”. Part of this sad realization for me was yesterday looking at Rinder’s blog and finding a tribute page to LRH “Friends of LRH”.

        • aquaclara

          Maybe consider giving people credit for progressing out of the bubble….it takes time. Personally, I think he’s well past that, and he’s brought quite a few others along with him in the healing and educating process.

          • Polly Anna

            I absolutely DO give them credit, and as I said admire their courage. It is just sad to see how long it does take to recover from the mind control. Keep in mind, I married someone born into the cult and I clearly see how he never fully recovered, no matter how long out of the control of the cult.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Now we’re getting down to it. I hear your pain and frustration – as I mentioned above, I endorse education on the subject – Steven Hassan and Jon Atack’s website and resources are a real opportunity to easily find what’s available as well as finding out what you think will zero in on what you are interested in and what you think may help.

              Anyone have the new website link?

              http://www.amazon.com/opening-minds-manipulation-influence-brainwashing-ebook/dp/B018YWBCZM

            • salin
            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Thank you my dear – I did find it for another post for a different reason.

            • Beth

              My family member who has been in Co$ since the 70’s will never “recover” completely. She will never “get her life back”. She has never had a job outside of scientology. When she joined she stopped pursuing an education. She never had children and her childbearing years are over. And now, in her 60’s, her health is getting more fragile and she has no retirement savings. Her parents are long gone and died brokenhearted about her involvement in Co$. And she still signs the very rare email with “ML” – along with other cryptic Scn text that I’ve learned to decode from reading the bunker. I know she is still deeply indoctrinated. It is difficult to have a straightforward conversation with her about anything. Hubbard threw her entire life on a trash heap – there is no grey area there whatsoever.

              As scientology continues to implode, I think about the smaller and smaller group of true believers who will be left (and in a certain light, Miscavige is Hubbard’s most tragic case) – many with no resources financial or otherwise to reinvent themselves. That is the end stage of a life entirely given over to L. Ron Hubbard. Poison seed, poison tree, poison fruit. It needs to be pulled out from the root. If that’s what you were getting at, I agree.

              And all the more reason to dedicate ourselves full force to the reconnection effort. To try and get the young ones out ASAP. And anyone else who can be reached.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Ah, I am sorry, Beth. Gotta hurt. I think of them too – those entrapped in “The End Stage” of Scientology – not unlike end stages of other diseases. Scientology as a practice to me is nothing more than a mental health illness, the Scientology Syndrome.

              The organization, though, is nothing more than con man/mafia boss money scam racket. It’s not even a cult! It uses cult tactics in certain situations with certain groups interchangeably as needed to best manipulate the players in whichever game is being played at the time. The Sea Org, of course, this is where and why it is used the most. Sometimes the religious angle is used, and it’s not just for tax or get out of jail reasons either. Sometimes it works on certain publics. Then there’s the Elite Country Club angle. Or the humanitarian angle, front groups.

              The reason Scientology is unique is because it utilizes All the methods of manipulation not just one angle. Scientology is dying out because it’s leader is uneducated and unwilling to be aware of how outdated most of the angles have long ago become. Even the Elite Country Club angle is waning because all the other ones, being outdated and now unpopular in general society, is garnering scorched earth ridicule.

              The whales really should be tasked to provide housing and health care for these elderly who slaved away at their feet all these years. It’s unconscionable to do any less.
              It’s also why I can’t help shudder when these same victims are ridiculed. These are not well people and they were deliberately made unwell.

              http://i.imgur.com/yvjQXqC.jpg

            • Qbird

              All that moolah
              elicited from their own adherents, their own subscribers,
              just regular folks & the whales, of course, and those celebrities too,
              high profile
              billions of dollars available
              and yet, they refuse to help take care of each other !?!
              their own children,
              their own long standing true believers.
              hard to fathom.
              This is rotten lousy business.

            • Beth

              yes, “deliberately made unwell” – so sad and so true.

            • pluvo

              It is a process to unwind the indoctrination. I went through that. There was a time when another ex (we were both in the Sea Org) was telling me stories of Miscavige’s abuses (he left because he saw DM mistreating his staff) – I heard what he said but it was bouncing off my mind; I couldn’t process it. Finally he showed me a story which kind of shocked me out of the indoctrination. Now … I had the same with Hubbard. I was rejecting many of his policies and statements, still many descriptions of Hubbard bounced of my mind. Then, another description about Hubbard’s ‘tech’ was like a curtain was pulled aside to let me look. It is difficult to describe this all and difficult to comprehend the mechanisms behind. Have you read Orwell’s “1984”? That describes the mind-set best, IMO.
              It’s tricky when being in to unroll because Scientology is interwoven with things that make sense and can be found elsewhere from other sources, and the benefit (in Scn there is a lot emphasis on the “wins”) and depending on one’s individual experience this varies. There is an Orwellian kind of mind control structure which leads to suppress not only what one says but also what one thinks; it is a self-censuring of one’s thoughts. One other point is that one has to admit that one was wrong, which is not easy to do with all its different ramifications.
              What helped me very much to unwind were people who patiently were putting different references from Hubbard to scrutiny. But these were exes who had experienced the mind-f#ck themselves and knew expertly how to fight fire with fire.

              (Here some of the stages of exit someone else broadly described: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html )

            • Polly Anna

              Glad to hear about your transformation. Some of Rinder’s reminds me of the stages of grief. He appears now to be somewhere in the anger stage. To see Mike as a cult spokesperson and now is like night and day, like watching the transformation of a cocoon to the emerging beautiful butterfly. From a blank stare to peace on his face now speaks volumes. That of course, is my opinion and mine alone. It was hard to watch when Marty gave his deposition, the emotional toll was so clearly evident. There is a real distinction between admitting one was wrong, and being clearly misled. One is your own error, the other is not.

            • pluvo

              Mike Rinder in the “anger stage”. Oh no. He is just cool. Maybe angry about the disconnection of his children and family – like everybody else who is in this situation. He is one of the people who are putting the screws on Miscavige and his clampire (with mainly Tony, Jeffrey Augustine, Karen de la Carriere – and some others). He knows Miscavige like few others and hits him where it hurts, exposing the failures and lies of the ‘great leader’.

              Is your spouse an Indie or in the Freezone? Does he still practice Scn actively?

            • Polly Anna

              My ex-spouse is such a huge liar that I didn’t even know the truth about where he worked the first two years of our marriage. I didn’t understand the cult aspect at all for many years and once I delved into it realized where much of the trouble began. He has relentlessly harassed me and our children for the past 16 years, and I recently beat him in court again. I have spent over $100,000 in legal fees and the emotional toll on us all is tremendous. He was absolutely infuriated when I gave our grown daughter Leah Remini’s book for Christmas. His mother was a founding member who still audits in the Free Zone. I know that he goes to their yearly summer gatherings. It was that particular group that I had in mind when I originally posted. It is one thing to claim you are no longer a member, and another thing altogether to continue to worship all that was LRH.

            • pluvo

              So when he harassed you and you went to court, I assume you are separated now or divorced. Seems like your experience is complex.
              I met some Freezoners a while ago and the behavior of your (ex ?) husband doesn’t quite fit with what I experienced. But then again, there are just different people acting in many different ways like all over the world.
              Did he try to get you interested in Scientology? How did he explain not having told you about where he worked and what he did, for two years?

            • Mark Foster

              Hey, Polly Anna,there´s a guy who posts here named Mockingbird. Check out his blog(mbnest.blogspot.com). Check out Arnie Lerma´s site(lermanet.com) and Gerry
              Armstrong´s site(gerryarmstrong.org). As Hole mentioned, Steve Hassan and Jon Atack
              have written eloquently about the deeply corrosive damage to the psyche that is caused by long-term participation in the scientology cult. You can also stay right here on the Bunker site and gain even more insight into how scientology truly fucks people up by reading the old posts.
              Good on ya for posting and asking questions and sharing your experiences…and happy spelunking in the various rabbit-holes!

            • salin

              Great recommendations. Mockingbird’s site is really interesting in part because it is like he is sharing a quest with us. As he reads, digests and shares additional information – he also shares glimpses of his own (recent) journey of understanding (while purging) the the combined manipulations designed into Co$ ‘doctrine’/policies.

            • Mark Foster

              Exactly! That´s what appealed to me, too.

            • Polly Anna

              Thank you Mark. I met Mockingbird in Dallas when Tony was touring with Miss Lovely, a very nice gentleman. I met Sunny and her husband too. Amazing people. Jon Atack has my greatest respect and admiration. He is far more articulate than I could ever be. Makes me want to pull a Wayne’s World “I am not worthy!” I don’t believe that he, Karen de la Carriere and Chris Shelton have any idea how important their work has been to those damaged in this process or those who have been repeatedly dragged into court without merit.

        • TonyOrtega

          Sounds like you’ve missed posts like this…

          http://www.mikerindersblog.org/rons-journal-30/

          • Polly Anna

            Thank you! You are so right; I have read your blog almost daily for the past two to three years. Rinder’s and Rathbun’s I glance at on occasion when the Bunker inspires it. I’m glad to see he is digging deeper and realizing the intent. I still see so many who never get there, and wonder if they ever will. It makes me sad for them.

        • Richard Grant

          oh, never mind. I must be feeling crabby this morning. Sorry.

          • daisy

            Now why can*t I so that. Much admiration for restraint

      • MarcabExpat

        I think you mischaracterize Mike Rinder

        I see what you did there 😉

    • Roger Hornaday

      You aren’t qualified to say Rinder and Rathbun “want to be seen as as heroes” because you don’t know what they want. You aren’t privy to their thoughts. Nor can you say they have only the main goal of taking down David Miscavige. You don’t know what their main goals are plus they are two different people. If you were a reader of Mike Rinder’s blog you’d see how off the mark you are in your uncharitable and rather empty-headed assessments of him. He is a brilliant thinker and completely equitable in his expressed judgements.

      • Polly Anna

        Wow! Talk about being judgmental! I think you misconstrued most of what I intended which was not critical. Why so defensive?

        • Roger Hornaday

          I have no idea of what you INTENDED I am responding to what you said. Why so defensive? You have mischaracterized a person for whom I have high regard. It is my duty and my pleasure to correct your silly statements.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “Many still believe”? How many of the hundreds of thousands who’ve left do you actually know still believe? Judging by the sampling of out of many a few thousand, the percentage I found is insignificantly small.

      Any hero worship is a projection of others by others. You know, today there exists a whole litany of books on the ever widening subject of undue influence. We’ve come a long way from the simpllistic Stockholm Syndrome. Research in the mental health field in some ways has just begun. Tony has featured many authors on the subject and their works.

      From what you wrote I can’t help think you might benefit from reading and continuing your education on the subject. It’s actually quite a fascinating subject. And if you think I’m one of the hero worshipers, I can assure you I long ago threw away my rose colored glasses. Hope this is of some help.

    • Peter

      There are also many, like me, who were in very early and got a LOT of personal value from the “tech” and “processes”. That was then. This is now. See Chris Shelton’s interview with his mother, Part II. Many of us left long ago, seeing the “evilcreep” taking place. But we were smart enough to take the gains we’d made. So please don’t smear everyone. I’d bet you never experienced any of it, thus you’re now an “expert”.

    • JustSheila

      Polly Anna, I agree completely with your first paragraph, but as others mentioned here, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder are very different people. You may not know all that Mike Rinder does behind the scenes, either.

      Some of the former scn execs were still seen as leaders after they left. I think both Mike and Marty utilized this perception to unite those out who still liked parts of the tek, and to expose church crimes. The most striking difference between them IMO, is that it seems to me Mike Rinder only took on that role when there didn’t seem to be others to do it. Having known him IRL, he is a quiet man by nature and unlike Marty, was not personally delivering ‘tek’ but instead, working a normal job.

      FYI, it was Marty Rathbun who found and contacted Mike Rinder and got him involved. Mike had been out for years before Marty, just living a quiet life.

      It’s a pretty small percentage of us exes that continue to hold onto the tek no matter what. Everyone is different, though, and some take more time than others. Something about the need to be right, I guess. I’ve been fully out for many years and see the whole thing as one gigantic con.

  • Chee Chalker

    GoFundMe is a class act.
    Scientology is the exact opposite.

    Well it looks like we know how the Co$ is making up lost reveneus from the exodus of members. They are blackmailing former members with family still inside.
    Scientology – like herpes. It stays with you forever.

    • aquaclara

      Blackmailing is a good word to describe it. Until today’s post, I hadn’t realized that the ‘a to e’ was not free. How I missed that bit along the way is beyond me. One more way to collect thousands from people who will quite possibly consider paying up in the hopes of seeing their kids.

      IRS, care to step in here? Blackmail is not a religiously protected anything. Unless you’re a pirate.

      • salin

        Your last lines are classic.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s actually an OMG High Crime, Suppressive Act to have the audacity to manipulate the Ethics policies with a cash bribe. The Ethics system is supposed to be the only manipulator in the room!

        I count the day that Miscavige somehow not only made it just hunky dory but encouraged his Monopoly game rules of paying your way out of jail one of the top ten hallmarks of Scientology no longer existing. I consider anyone who did not bolt for the door on that day not a Scientologist but a Monopoly pawn piece.
        It really is that central to Miscavige’s dismantling of Hubbard’s fantasy empire.

        Oh, of course, whales and celebs had their own special Monopoly series which came with their own set of rules. That seems to have changed in recent years in another one of DM’s majestic footbullets and which Leah Remini confirms in her revealing “Troublemaker”. Colossal mistake.

        • Er… bribes are beyond the pale, but giving a large ‘donation’ to get out of ‘ethics’ trouble is fine..?

          Seems to me that the ‘high crime’ thing is about insuring that money goes to the corrupt CofS instead of a individual corrupt ‘ethics officer’. Scientology is the only crook allowed in the room.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            No, you couldn’t make donations to get out of ethics. No money whatsoever in any form. Either one would have gotten you declared or thrown into those ethics Orwellian Comm Ev’s. It was a major departure because prior to Miscavige’s blessing on this, there were many more fake mirrors to make ethics seem like a just procedure.

            My take for some time is I see Miscavige making the scam more and more obvious, the drug more and more expensive, the carrot more and more difficult to get to because he wants to weed out those he knows will figure it out within the year or two as well as weeding out those he knows will be bankrupt within a year or two.

            I hate to give him credit for anything and likely anything that’s successful or smart could just as well come from his highly paid real world consultants. The maneuvers I see him employing are not unlike I see in the corporate world – separating the 1% from the rest of the lot – lumping all But the 1% in the discard as soon as possible pile.

            Honestly, the scientology organizational model is so unprofitable and inefficient, it makes no sense to boutique cater to any but the Duggan/Cruise and multimillionare family set. That seems to be exactly what he has done. And in that context, it makes perfect sense that he began his Monopoly Pay to Get Out of Jail game. He only needs maybe 200 players to concentrate on wooing and schmoozing.

            http://i.imgur.com/TwWElur.jpg

            • I do get the impression that Hubbard was a born and experienced con artist who (involuntarily) passed his scam onto to someone who didn’t understand how it worked at all.

              Hubbard insisted that the Orgs cut expenses to the bone, and used paying beleivers to recruit others (sometimes even paying them commission). This maximised income.

              Miscavige spends a fortune on buildings and tries to eliminate the human touch by sitting potential recruits in front of boring video presentations. He does not understand how his own con works.

              I think Miscavige chases the whales because he is massively insecure, and it’s good for his self image to be seen only with very rich people. This boost also gives him the illusion that he is effective, and allows him to deny the existence of the general recritment crisis, which he has not idea how to deal with.

              I don’t think concentating on the 1% is a deliberate strategy because, for that to work, you still have to have a functioning organisation animated by cheap labour. Even rich narcissists will not want to be members of a shrinking religion with nnex to no members.

            • Jake Hamby

              Normally, the increasing exclusivity might actually be attractive to super-rich narcissists, but the fact that their other billionaire friends would mock them to their faces for being Scientologists instantly kills the appeal. Thanks, Internet and South Park.

            • J. Swift

              THDNE, excellent analysis. The Church of Scientology has always had culling mechanisms to weed out all but the most susceptible people.

              Status = A way of rewarding the trained seals for giving money on command. This is absurdly Pavlovian and yet it appears to work on IAS members. How can anyone claim to be “OT” when they have been conditioned to respond to mere flattery, trinkets, baubles, and shiny trophies?

              Ethics = The coercive cult psycho-mechanics used to control thinking and behavior and thus induce a state of abject obedience and thought-stopping in Scientologists.

              SP Declare = Expulsion for those whose thinking and behavior cannot be controlled by the Church.

              Disconnection = A way to severely punish those who have been declared, this in an attempt to spiritually and psychologically devastate them and thereby force them to do a groveling A-E program and come back into the Cult. Disconnection is also used against non-Scientologists who do not agree with a family or friend’s involvement in Scientology.

              Fair Game = A way to severely punish those who have been declared and who will not play the Cult’s sick A-E game and choose instead to speak out. Fair Game is also used against non-Scientologists who work to expose the depravity of the Cult.

  • salin

    Brian, Thanks for continuing to share your story. I am sorry that the meeting with your daughter was met with such a negative/hardline response. That you are undeterred and joining voices, not just for your own situation but for all who are facing this heartless disconnection, is admirable.

    Together we have just witnessed an amazing effort go viral through the media. May there keep being such efforts small and large that lead to an eventual, significant change.

    Switching gears – great news about the Go Fund Me reversal!!!

    • jazzlover

      O/T off topic — I was appalled at the attack on you. Don’t let it get you down. He was just one of many. To guard against that nonsense in the future, please make sure that from here on out you make an effort to steadily increase your upvote ratio to at least 10:1 😉

      • salin

        Thanks, and Lol. Because that’s why we all post here. *chuckle*

        • jazzlover

          Right. There are certain people here who could post “hey, I just farted” and get 80 upvotes easy. LOL. So, no, it’s not an achievement by any stretch 🙂

        • FredEX2

          It’s certainly not why we post here…but here’s another upvote to cheer you up anyway Salin ⬆️ ( I’m not expecting any upvotes for this…and I did not fart.)

          • salin

            You and jazz just shifted my surprise (last night) and annoyance (this morning) into something to laugh about because its so silly. Thanks 😀

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          What happened last night was unfortunate and unnecessary, Salin. I was having my own conversation and didn’t even notice what was going on upthread until later. I’m sorry you and Dodo were subjected to that.

      • Now, you know what happens if you refer to an incident in the Bunker, you must include a brief synopsis for those of us in different time zones or swamped with RL issues. Cliff Notes version, please. We can deduce the victims of the attack were Salin and Dodo, but who was the attacker and what was their weapon? Was it Oracle in the Library witha pipe? Drive By in the Conservatory with a rope?

        • TexasBroad

          Sort by oldest and read Tony’s comment. MediaLush was banned.

          • Ah, I see. Well, things will be a bit less “mean girls” around here.

        • Robert Eckert

          Lush, in the Outhouse, with a Fart

        • jazzlover

          See Tony’s first post from today. All the offending posts from last night were deleted. It started with an offensive picture of Krusty’s “assumed ginormous” ass, which, in all fairness, is the only type of exposure she deserves, but still. There were fights over “upvote ratios” and the like, all of which, as you should know, take precedence over RL 😉

  • deanblair

    Excuse me, who is Media Lush?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    $cientology: a crass act

    $cientology: the road to St. Hell is paved with bad intentions

    $cientology: tearing families apart since 1953

    $cientology: the front porch of infinite pain

    $cientology: so crooked it would break a snake’s back to follow it

    • daisy

      It is Friday, I don’t think I mentioned your genius for a couple of weeks. Sorry I tend to slack off some weeks.

  • BosonStark

    There’s a cruel irony where a parent or parents raise children in Scientology, and the parents leave but the child remains into adulthood. The kid can blame all their problems on their parent, and they don’t even look at or consider the flaws in Scientology. There is a lot of pressure put on the children for them to do exactly that.

    Children blame their parents for a lot of things anyway, but Scientology exploits that to the maximum degree. Hubbard even thought that the sperm may hear damaging words spoken by a parent before conception. This can cause an engram. How do you explain to your kids who were brought up in Scientology that a lot of it is crazy?

    • April

      How a sperm, or ovum for that matter, can “hear” anything without a nervous system or organ for processing sound is beyond me. LRH’s woeful lack of understanding of even a 1950’s level of knowledge about biology and human anatomy/development is simply astounding to me.

      • BosonStark

        Since Hubbard was trying to sell his baloney as scientific, these things should be red flags in his “science of the mind.” Then there’s not being able to question, discuss or challenge any of it.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Oh, don’t even get me started on that. I remember the first time I read a reference Hubbard made to…oh, I forget the details now, but it was something about engrams at meiosis (?). At any rate, it specifically said “meiosis,” and I was like: “What. You really didn’t know what that word meant, did you? You heard it somewhere, knew it had something to do with science, and so you grabbed it.” And then I realized how silly I was being by asking such an obvious question.

  • pluvo

    The CoS should be made to put warning signs on their promo: Waring – joining Scientology may damage your family!

    From the Website of the Church of Scientology: “The Church goes to great lengths to reconcile family differences should a problem arise.” – Yeah, right!

    • PickAnotherID

      My blood pressure goes up 12 points, which doesn’t make my doctor very happy, every time I see some promo BS about how $cientology is so great for families. It makes me want to do a “Bruce Banner” and turn into the Hulk and start smashing. GRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

    • TexasBroad

      I think “reconcile” must mean something different in scientologese, but yes, the do go to great lengths when problems arise. I am glad to see the swell in this protest against this mechanism of control of its members….let’s go reclaim your loved ones! I can’t help but believe hearts and minds will change.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        “….let’s go reclaim your loved ones!”

        I’ll drive!! Hop in. 🙂

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I’ll bring the music playlist and my mobile blutooth Bose speakers!

        • FredEX2

          Got room for me?

          • TexasBroad

            Room for all!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              We’re gonna need a bigger coach bus!

        • daisy

          As long as you don’t neglect your bartending duties, I am in.

      • April

        “I think ‘reconcile’ must mean something different in scientologese…”

        I’m not an ex-scientologist, but I believe the term is “handling,” as in the family member must fall in line and spout the CO$ party line like a good little scientologist, or be disconnected from.

        • Polly Anna

          “Handling” is more like placing the blindfold and gag back in place.

        • dchoiceisalwaysrs

          Yes. The scientology documents do say ‘handle or disconnect’ but as extremely common in scientology PR, a different word is used for the purpose of ‘an acceptable truth’

      • BosonStark

        I’m optimistic, too. With the Internet, it’s a lot harder for a group with the history of Scientology to remain insular.

        Children are full of questions, and although there were answers in libraries, it was difficult to find a quick answer to a simple question or explore more complex answers to difficult questions. People are not going to look to someone like L. Ron Hubbard or a book like Dianutty for all the answers, when all that is known is out there and so fascinating and accessible.

        Pointing to the Scientology grade chart used to impress people. Now people should think, what’s up with that? Really?

        • Mark Foster

          You always share wonderfully concise and pithy comments!
          Yeah, the” grade chart”…What IS up with that one-size-fits-all, singular path to
          spiritual ” salvation” that is trademarked, for sale, and, at the end, shrouded in secrecy?
          Moreover, people who follow the steps on the grade chart do not get the results promised,
          (e.g.”ability to communicate to freely with anyone on any subject, ability to spot the source of problems and make them vanish, relief from the sufferings and hostilities of life, freedom from the upsets of the past and ability to face the future”, etc. ad nauseam).
          The grade chart is allegedly a chart of the “steps” one takes as she moves ” up” the bridge…Huh? A bridge spans a space that exists between 2 points…and one moves ACROSS it. So, the word-salad-y mind-fuck is present even in the description of the path to spiritual freedom…
          Sigh…

          • pluvo

            “The Bridge To Total Freedom”?

            The more one climbs up this bridge the more one is owned by the CoS. Hubbard’s own definition of slavey was: “Positioned in another’s time and space”.
            Once, when still being in, I read this definition and I had the ‘cognition’ that I’m indeed positioned in another’s time and space, and I realized: Yes, I am a slave.

            War is Peace
            Freedom is Slavery
            Ignorance is Strength

          • Linda Clement

            People joining $cientology staff or Sea Org in order to be able to get their courses and auditing, and after years of never-ending labor still haven’t been given the services to make it to clear, much less OT. Sorry, your church can’t help you with that.

  • Gerard Plourde

    It’s really good to see this extended and intense spotlight focused on disconnection. While other equally odious practices exist within Scientlology, none so visibly demonstrate its cultic aspects.

  • LittleRedSongbird

    My heart goes out to Sheen. I really wish the church could be charged with extortion, which is what disconnection seems to be.

  • Supper Powers

    What the heck is in Alison’s glass?!?

    • TexasBroad

      She says Diet Coke, but I say that about my whiskey so…

      • Supper Powers

        I didn’t realize she said so. It’s always been a deep, dark mystery to me.

        • TexasBroad

          People were wondering so Tony reported to us some time ago. I don’t know if he asked her or snuck a sip. 🙂

          • Supper Powers

            I missed that. I bugged him about it a few times myself. Mystery solved.

      • Nah just straight Diet Coke.

        • TexasBroad

          I know. I was just kidding. About her DIet Coke anyway…not my whiskey. 🙂

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Liquid unicorn…

      • Unicorn Zero™. All the magic. None of the calories.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          I prefer Unicorn Classic, but I’m old school like that.

    • Diet Coke. I was there. Saw them pour it.

      • Supper Powers

        Confirmation. Thank you. And Nora, your honesty is refreshing. And can you tell a story well! Nicely done.

  • Mrs. V.

    “At one point she said, ‘I’m not brainwashed. I’m not a robot.’ It’s
    clear to me they have spent a lot of time detailing to her what my ‘high
    crimes’ are supposed to be. She knows about my website. The TV spots.
    Your story about it.”

    So, she’s basically saying “I can’t have anything to do with you because you’ve spoken publicly about me not having anything to do with you”.

    But no, she’s not brainwashed or a robot.

    Sorry you have to go through this, Brian. One of the best manipulation techniques is getting someone to do something while making them believe it was their idea all along. lrh was an expert at it, and he roped in so many people using it. I hope she realizes it sooner rather than later.

    • Is there a “brainwashed drill”?
      ..
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoA4Y-KqH8k

      • Victor

        His silence was golden 🙂

        • Yeah, the comment at the end wasn’t needed. (And dragged it down to be honest.)

      • Mrs. V.

        Unfortunately, videos are blocked by my company, so I’ll have to take a look at this when I get home. But I’ll add that all of the tech is brainwashing tech.

        • Just Anne Archer “Do I look brainwashed to you?”

          Many Scientologists seem to bring up brainwashed or robot without anyone mentioning either words, so I was wondering if there was some kind of drill for that.

          • Mrs. V.

            Oh, that Anne Archer video *shudders*. Why yes, Anne, you do in fact look brainwashed to me.

            But that’s a good point, brainwashing people to say they’re not brainwashed. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad and scary.

          • daisy

            That documentary had so many pearls in it.

      • Meepthorp

        Why does Ann Archer always look like she’s about to cry?

        • burythenuts

          She is a Scientologist.

        • Sherbet

          I’d cry, too, if Tommy Davis were my son.

          • Kay

            You made me laugh, Sherbet !

            • Sherbet

              That’s my job, Kay!

            • Kay

              And you do it well !

        • She was a cloud on a jovian planet 21.451 skagillion years ago.

        • Linda Clement

          She’s always looked that way. At least since the movie she made with Rick Springfield back in, I think, the mid-80’s. It’s just her face. Every time she smiles, she looks like she’s tearing up. She always looked gorgeous doing it, though.

          I think Tommy has been going through his own personal hell since his last public appearance when he spoke truthfully about disconnection in a documentary. Can’t remember the name, but I saw it a couple of months ago during a free trial on Amazon Prime.

  • ze moo

    After all the brew-ha-ha over Phil and Willies billboard, a lot of the general public now know what ‘disconnection’ is. Let’s hope that Brian can entice his daughter back to reality.

    That will be a very hard task, her husband is whale and they probably have minders. Springsong has already had the ‘gang sec check’ and is under heavy stress to knuckle under to the will of DM. I hope a WTF moment ensues, but even if it does, will she antagonize her husband and in-laws to do anything about it?

    Emotional blackmail is still blackmail.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Brian, what jumped out at me in your story is that she read stories and saw the websites. This is the exact opposite of what used to be done so this may actually be encouraging. Whatever she has been ordered, drilled and coerced to parrot in words to you, at least she is getting your message.

    Fort Harrison has become an actual fortress in downtown Clearwater. However, I wonder if there was not so much a protest but a bus/car/tram/van decorated “CALL ME” parade routing around and through the key areas and looping this route – a parade of parents/kids/grandkids/family/ who just want to talk to their loved ones inside.

    With a TV crew of course hanging around for interviews and film at 11.

    Just a friendly, family “Call Me Parade”. I know where everyone can get pro artwork for some cool t-shirts as well as posters and maybe even some nifty car magnet signs to slap on the sides of the transport:) And what ogre doesn’t love a parade?

    http://stopscientologydisconnection.com/?page_id=615

    http://i.imgur.com/gxbivgN.jpg?1

    • Mrs. V.

      Instead of tossing candy from the floats, they can hand out burner phones.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I like this so much 🙂

        • Mrs. V.

          🙂

    • dchoiceisalwaysrs

      Now that might just have some legs……

    • aquaclara

      Brilliant idea (another one, sheesh,) And doable.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        🙂

    • AnyOldName1

      He didn’t say she actually “saw” the websites and stories. Unfortunately, she was probably just told about the “evil” her father was spreading……

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thanks for the correction. So maybe she was just told about the website. Well, that’s a little bit of information – the fact that her father is going to some trouble and a lot of time and thought into reaching her – believe me, that counts for SO much when you are isolated liked staff are. It will definitely impinge on her heart.

  • Draco

    Good for the GoFundMe people. Scn could learn a lesson or two from them in morals and PR.
    Off to listen to Nora now. I always love her talks.

  • flyonthewall

    Was looking over last night’s comments and it appears MediaLush deleted his account.

    • Newiga

      Uuuum?? What happened? I didn’t have time to hunker down in Bunker Town yesterday…

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Set comments to Oldest and read the first comment today from Tony. It explains all.

        • Newiga

          Thanks, NOLA and Fly.

          I have to agree with Tony regarding body/fat-shaming….Not cool.. However, MediaLush had his moments.

      • flyonthewall

        medialush being medialush is not always received well.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Nor always delivered well. It was unfortunate because I was in a downthread convo with him and he seemed on good behavior. Later, I scrolled upstairs to find him picking an unnecessary fight.

          • flyonthewall

            The distasteful shoops are one thing but what really bugged me was the celebrity gossip bullshit and disregard for facts. I often got the impression he liked sensationalism more than facts and I cannot stand that.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Yes, I share your impression. He was not always my cuppa, but I tried to get along. When he wasn’t ramping his responses up to 11, he was fine. Once that train derailed, though…

  • Newiga

    “The question she kept asking was, why are you here?” He is there because he loves and misses you, Spring.

    • Polly Anna

      To quote George Strait:

      “Let me tell you a secret about a father’s love,
      A secret that my daddy said was just between us.”
      He said, “Daddies don’t just love their children every now and then.
      It’s a love without end, amen, it’s a love without end, amen.”

      • Newiga

        Tearing up here… :’)

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Oh, I just said the same thing upthread! I wish it were as obvious to her as it is to us.

      • Newiga

        Me too… I hope Brian gets to hug his daughter soon.

  • ze moo

    How low can the ‘reputation’ of $cientology go? The Billboard of Connection got a lot of air play. Ron Sr. book comes out soon. ABC is doing a 20/20 story on the clampire. The sharks are biting, though not in a feeding frenzy, yet.

    And Tom Cruise is ‘challenging’ the British Royal Family. Yeah, right.

    “According to this week’s National Enquirer,
    Cruise “wants Scientology to be top dog & destroy the monarchy.” The
    supermarket tabloid claims the actor “one day soon hopes to make
    Scientology bigger than the British Royal Family and he’s willing to
    spend millions to make it happen!” How so? “The megastar’s plan to break
    British aristocracy involves pumping his hard-earned dollars into
    transforming Scientology’s U.K. headquarters at Saint Hill into a
    palace,” writes the outlet.”

    http://www.gossipcop.com/tom-cruise-dethrone-queen-elizabeth-monarchy-scientology/

    This ‘story’ has been mentioned here and all over the made up gossipsphere in the last month or so. But saying that TC actually has delusions about making $cientology take on the British aristocracy is the kind of stuff that can get you an involuntary commitment to the funny farm.

    There may be a turd of truth in all this. TC did apparently buy some house near E. Grinstead. Perhaps TC is the whale that has been selected to keep Stain Hill running? He doesn’t dare actually open his mouth and profess his love for Lron and DM, so what is he doing for KSW? He’s writing checks to keep the lights on, that is all his professional PR people will allow. TC has to keep the checks coming.

    Now the UK and the US have very active memes about how crazy and nasty $cientology is. What kind of a pool of possible ‘applicants’ does that leave the minions of Lron? I suppose that heavily tattooed and green haired dropouts from skinheads might fall for ‘engrams’. But who else can fall for the clam scam?

      • Graham

        A note to the editor of The Guardian: When you begin a story with the words “If reports in the Daily Mail are to be believed” and offer no other sources then you’ve ceased to be a journalist.

        • ze moo

          And the top of this gossip pile is a citation from the National Enquirer. Journalism?? Not so much, more like a bad joke that keep circulating.

          But what can you do when no one falls for ‘bat boy’ or bigfoot stories anymore?

    • Peter

      You asked how low its reputation go. Answer: About 3 billion dollars lower.

    • Mark

      TC put his posh pile (Rede Place in Dormans Park on the other side of EG to Stink Hole) on the market last year at an asking price of £4.5m plus, probably because he needs to retrench after a whole row of box-office stinkers. Now it’s under offer at £3,950,000: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39514258.html

      • Graham

        “This property has been removed by the agent. It may be sold or temporarily removed from the market.” Looks like Tom may have been confronted and shattered? Hiding: minus 8 on the Tone Scale.

      • Cara

        Well his latest Mission Impossible movie in August made 700 million dollars and he is the producer, so I doubt he needs money.

        • Mark

          He put Rede Place up for sale well before ‘MI5’ came out, and the film was released early, in July, because the distributors were worried it might lose out to the new Star Wars and James Bond films at Xmas. It grossed some $700m, but only made about $109m net profit—split among the five production companies involved (including TC’s) as well as Paramount. So he’s not all that stinking rich 😉 And don’t forget he’d already flogged off his plush Sea-Org renovated pad in Telluride. Insurance against another turkey?

  • A bird in the chimney

    Glad to get an update from Brian, but I wish it was a happier one. I’m sorry you’re still fighting to see your daughter and hope there’s a major breakthrough soon, for you and all those suffering disconnection.

    $ci is all about the Almighty Dollar. Regs are always looking for more money, and more ways to squeeze blood from a stone. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn some of the murky-reason declares (especially as the more recent history ones pile up), and subsequent instructions for the declared to go through a-e and sec checks and ‘get right,’ is just another money-grubbing move from on high that gets interpreted as real cherch values and ethics ‘on the ground.’ That and of course, it’s just not tough to manufacture high crimes within a paranoid environment.

  • villagedianne

    It was OK with Scientology for Nora Crest and the other Sea Org workers to live in crumbling, roach-infested quarters. But NO Pantene. And I guess it was nix on Lemon Scented Pledge as well.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Only the smell of mold and BO is good enough for the sea argh.

      How about the smell of food – won’t that give you a restim on the whole track?

      • villagedianne

        Food, yeah. Proust wrote Remembrance of Things Past, a 12 volume work, just from his recall of the taste of a Madeleine pastry dipped in tea.

        Maybe this explains the tasteless rice and beans. It’s not a punishment. It’s a beneficial Scientology process to prevent re-stimulation on the whole track. Scientology is always trying to help. They’ll give you all the help you can stand.

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Don’t forget the smell of cigarettes.

      • PerpetualOutflow

        And the smell of Macallan.

    • Oh man DEFINITELY no lemon scented pledge. NEVER.

      • TexasBroad

        Just another stupid bit that makes no sense. Why would scented products cause restim when other smells (which couldn’t be avoided) not? Whatever would happen if you smelled Pantene would have been happening to people all the time…when they smelled cooking, or nature, or car exhaust, or fresh paint….
        I thoroughly enjoyed you on Allison’s last night — you are SO GOOD at telling your story! I hope she has you back soon.

        • Well there will be a part two for sure.

          • Sherbet

            Can’t wait! You speak from the heart, but you also tell your story clearly, going from point A to point B without getting sidetracked or letting emotions tell the whole story. You’re a wonderful speaker.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          You are right. What doesn’t smell? Books, paper, furniture, food, plants – the list is endless! As for the whole-track thingy – soaps, detergents, shampoos, doedorants and cleaning products only go back 50-150 years, so how much is that if you have lived a gazillion years? ‘scientoology logic’ does not coincide with ‘WOG logic’.

          Most smells that restim something on my whole-track come from other sources than myself, and avoiding those would mean being locked up in my shotgun shack 24/7. And never have I experinced something that can be attributed to an earlier life.

          • TexasBroad

            I hate the smell of dryer sheets and couldn’t even get them banned from my own house because Mr. Broad likes them and uses them in his own laundry. Hubbard hates the smell of soap and makes it part of his religion. SMH.

        • I have a theory (which can never be tested, unfortunately) that Hubbard’s obsession with smells that no one else could detect was due to phaosmia – the perception of phantom smells – a condition he acquired as the result of a nasal or brain injury he sustained in his motorcycle crash.

          He then wove this strange experience into Scientology.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          OCD – Don’t think the term was invented in his time, but he had all the symptoms and I think a few that science hasn’t even added to the list yet!

          • Although he required others to preform the obcessive behaviour (like endlessly rinsing clothes).
            OCD by proxy? i don’t think that is in DSM – 5

  • Ben Franklin

    An excellent review of mind control issues among Jehovah’s Witnesses that makes it difficult for members to leave. The similarities between Scientology and Jehovah’s witness are quite astounding.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtxAL0zQY4

  • Skabetti

    A HUGE shout-out to Allison Hope Weiner, another persistent journalist (and possibly underappreciated) for what she does for the truth about scientology. Thanks for being another relentless thorn in DM’s side.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I really enjoy her shows and get all absorbed in whatever the story of the day is – so refreshing for a change.

  • Kay

    I have always wondered how Allison Hope Weiner got into investigating Scientology. I guess I have been too lazy to find out. Can anyone tell me what the backstory is on that?

  • Linda Clement

    I haven’t said this for a long time and I’d like to say it again: thank you, Tony Ortega, for this website. The last two days have been incredible.

    And now I am really going to get off the Internet and pretend I’ve been resting quietly all night when my caregiver gets here.

  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    “The question she kept asking was, why are you here?” Because he loves you, sweetheart. Why else?

    Brian, my heart goes out to you. I saw when you posted here the other day and mentioned we’d have an update soon. I wish it were better news, but stay strong–there are so many cracks in the CoS facade now that something’s got to give. Wishing you and your family the best!

  • I’ve been looking at my Sea Bones Project page. I think the foggy guesses of 2000 each for Flag and Pac Base aren’t helpful. Even without numbers for stuff like CST, Saint Hill, Feewinds, etc, I’m already getting a total higher than CoS’s 5000 claim — a sure sign that something is wrong!

    Category:Sea Org Bones

    A lot of the numbers are intertwined. There’s a lot of International stuff in LA that would be taken from the Pac Base total, and WISE Int is based in the HGB.

    • Sunny

      I don’t think there are anywhere near 2000 at Flag Base or 2000 at PAC Base. Both of those seem pretty high.

      • Absolutely! Those guesses have always bugged me because of all the other places that the Sea Org have to be allocated. (Which is why this project. 🙂

        • Sunny

          I have some connections to some still-ins and I may be able to get more updated numbers (at least for PAC). But it may be a few weeks.

          • That would be great. The numbers don’t have to be exact, just a rough figure with a basis for that number.

            Meanwhile, what kind of crew and org staff does the Freewinds have these days? Anyone?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That would be great, Sunny! Miscavige couldn’t even threaten more than 2,000 total for the decades awaited Super Power grand banana opening and that’s with slaves being bussed in and public.

      • aquaclara

        I agree. If there were more, they would have been on buses to Atlanta last week.

        • Qbird

          you ok there Aqua?!

    • aquaclara

      I’m of no use here, but I love your chart, so I’m trying…
      We know there are at least two to four people in Author Services: Emily, her husband, and the other two women with Emily in one of the pictures posted of her recently.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    Brian, I really admire your courage and for finding the truth, plus speaking out and helping others. I do however doubt they let your daughter read all the things you wrote. I’d think they just gave her excerpts, just imo. It would seem to me they wouldn’t trust her reading all. They wouldn’t have changed that much.

  • Sejanus

    Disconnection.
    What a charmingly underhanded way for a cult to operate in tearing apart families and friends.
    Just think, the IRS doesn’t even give a damn.

    $cientology. So strong it can confront and shatter anything… except critics or former members who were trying to move on with their lives..

    OSA eyes reading this blog today…
    Think of whom you have lost from your own life and why.
    Cutting those people off, did it really seem like an action based on strength or did it come as orders from above, leaving you no personal choice or free will?
    How will you clear a planet when you cannot even communicate with those closest to you?
    You personally may love your fellowman.
    Your organization does not.

    Think of those you know who have also left to step outside never to return.
    That was courage.
    That was facing the unknown.
    Think to those who you disconnected from who have tried to communicate with you.
    They are still showing you they care and want you to see the joy life truly is.
    Just show them you want them back, to reconnect.
    Let them help you.
    They have walked the path now before you through that door.
    It is uunlocked…
    Just step through and be truly happy, fulfilled and loved freely.

    I know you can do it and have thought about it.
    So has the person beside you.
    Show your quality of character.
    You know you can do this.
    We know you can do this.
    Scientology knows you can do this…and is very afraid.

  • Ben Franklin

    Patricia Braine about the Church of Scientology practice of Religious Shunning and how she has dealt with the effects on her and her daughter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D38ZboLPxUA

    • Ruby

      Grace is the woman who was holding the sign about Zack at the billboard dedication event.

  • madge filpot

    11 people on her.. bloody nose.. crawling to get out…Jeeezus! My exit was tame compared to Nora’s. Wow!

    • aquaclara

      Exit stories are worthy of a article or three all their own….Yesterday, we had someone who had to crawl out a window at the Fort Harrison, this one with Nora, your own story (which I can only imagine). Headley’s motorcycle trip, Rinder’s competition to become the next Scarecrow, the one who spun down the lines to get off the Flea Winds…..

      All are horrific, it’s not a contest, but do make for gripping stories. I just wish that’s all they were –stories.

      Leaving via the customary-for-most-religions doorways seems so impossible.

    • That’s because you don’t LEAVE the Sea Org. You escape. Any so called “religion” where you have to take your life or almost to get out isn’t a religion, it’s a cult. A very dangerous cult. I am one of the lucky ones. I wasn’t successful in my suicide attempt. I made it. Which is bad news for Scientology. I am here to talk, and from all reports I am kinda good at it.

      • aquaclara

        You are more than “kinda good at it”, sweetie! I had moved the tissue box away from the computer this morning, thinking that after the last couple of days, I was good. You got me. I haven’t finished listening yet, but I will.

        You are here, on a real mission, and people are listening.
        Thanks for being so brave and doing all you’re doing to help others get out.

      • Allie

        Yes you are, Nora. You’re REALLY good at it.

  • Sherbet

    Not to belabor the point or the subject, this is my only comment on Media_Lush. He is one of those people who could be insulting or appalling, and, when called on it, would take the stance of, “Well, you shouldn’t be insulted; you’re too sensitive,” thereby tossing the blame onto the victim. He could be entertaining, and I never ran afoul of him and wish him well, but I guess enough is enough. We don’t need Bunker tiffs going on.

  • Thank you Tony for posting the interview here. I had such an amazing time talking with Allison. There will be a part two in the future so stay tuned. Trying to get it all out there.

    • You are a marvelous interview, Ms. Crest. Warm. Witty. Poised. Concise. An excellent spokesperson for our growing crew of bitter apostates (defrocked, of course) and publicity-starved never-ins out here on the fringes of the internet.

      • Mark Foster

        …with a stellar view of the stars from our hammocks on the front porch of infinity and the veranda of cult decline…

    • Qbird

      good because it ended too soon. really good interview, BasketballJane.

    • Allie

      Great interview, Nora! Thank you for speaking out and sharing the truth.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Bookmarked to check out later – and can’t wait for part two. Thank you for continuing to do what you do. It matters so much.

      • Thank you for always supporting and spreading the word!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    I posted this the other day on Tony’s post about the Ribisis but it bears reposting.
    $cientology and $cientologists are SO quick to brandish the words “bigot” and “bigotry”
    though their behavior would seem to me to be the living epitome of bigotry.

    The dictionary definition:
    “Bigotry: Stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own”

    Might I suggest this again?
    Disconnection: Stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own

    • Bob

      PA, so true.
      I often refer to the cherch as Hypocritology.
      Scientology is not “knowing how to know”.
      It’s true definition is “knowing how to fear, lie and be two faced.”

  • Bob

    Disconnection plays on the fear a person feels when he or she is faced with losing the very foundation that their life is built on.(those who remain in and are forced to disconnect) That’s what the CHERCH counts on. That’s what Brian and all of us deal with when we decide to walk away from Scientology. Even when we do so quietly with no intention to cause any trouble.
    The trick is to show the fearfull “still in person” that they can quickly adopt a new family, new philosophy, new way of thinking and regain the family that they are prevented from seeing.
    Scientology is based on fear as family is based on love.

  • funnybroad

    Wow. In the sea org, if your mom gives you new pants for Christmas, you get interrogated.

    • If you mom drops by unexpectedly to say hello and give you a hug, you get interrogated. They don’t want you to LOVE ANYONE OR ANYTHING except Scientology.

      • Mark Foster

        Yeah, and even THAT attachment to being in the Sea Borg isn´t “love”. It´s slavery. They want you to know that you are, to put it euphemistically, “obliged” to toe the line- period.

        • funnybroad

          Mark/Nora: I feel like sending each of you a new pair of pants for you to freely enjoy without interrogation!

          • Mark Foster

            100% cotton, draw-string waist, please:)

            • funnybroad

              In this cotton fabric?

            • funnybroad

              If I spot either of you at the Reason Rally in D.C. this June, I’m taking you pants shopping!

            • Sherbet

              I read (and I may be misquoting some funny person) that “elastic waist pants are the gateway drug to bariatric surgery.” Draw-string would be the same, I’d say.

            • Qbird

              colorfull with TWO pockets!

          • Levis for me. 😉

            • gtsix

              Like these? (f5)

      • Bob

        Nora you are spot on.
        When I interact with still ins, which happens almost everyday, there is that little cloud sitting there saying,
        Why aren’t you on course or doing your next auditing or helping with your local ideal org.
        Everyone is monitoring everyone else in Scientology. It’s a cult of fear and blind obedience.

        • Oh man. It is the most massive snitch culture out there. 1984 in full effect.

          • Bob

            I could tell you stories.

            • Im ready.

            • Bob

              Post your site and I will email you. I would be glad to support you any way I can. My stories which are many are not for broad public consumption. I would get hammered. Not ready for that yet.

            • you can hit me up anytime at ragingbuddha.net

            • Bob

              Muchas gracias. Will do.

            • Bob

              Email sent to u.

            • Qbird

              You’re a fine bit of all right, Bob. here & now. you’re free to do or not do
              as you wish!

            • Bob

              Thanks Qbird. I do what I can. Sometimes it’s not obvious.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              And if you need a second shoulder to rest on, moxiebaymusic AT gmail DOT org – I’ll then send you my personal email – anytime.

          • Kids snitching on parents is one of those isolated areas where I condone comparing the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology to Hitler’s 3rd Reich.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            1984 down to the most excruciating detail.

      • Allie

        Disgusting!! This just makes me sick to my stomach and makes my heart hurt.
        They are such hypocrites and lying liars. Aarghhhhhh

  • Kim O’Brien

    I honestly just do not get this …at all . Why is it that exes are always SHOCKED …SHOCKED …that there is gambling in Vegas ?

    “Sheen had been very active in Scientology decades ago, but had left it in 1979. Since then, he’d never been antagonistic toward the organization, and he never discouraged his daughter Springsong from being a member. In 2014, he happily attended as Springsong married into a wealthy Scientology family — the Atkinson-Bakers, who own a national court-reporting business.

    So when Sheen got a letter last April informing him that he had been declared a “suppressive person” by the Church of Scientology and would need to perform an amends project in order to get back into the good graces of the organization, he says he was completely taken by surprise.”

    Why …did he NOT discourage her from scientology ?!? I am just so conflicted here . On so, so , so many levels . I feel pity , rage , apathy , back to pity , and then a little pissed off again .

    He knew scientology was bad ..but hey ..why discourage your own children right ? Well ..the same reason why you pull them out of oncoming traffic .

    He left her in oncoming traffic …she got hit by a car driven by a cult …and then he went to the wedding .

    When Tony came to Denver for his book tour ..my daughter went to my parents house while i went out . Earlier that day …my Da asked my kid where i was going that night and she said i was going to some sort of ” scientology thing ” He LOST HIS MIND. Totally freaked out ..got on line ..called me … AT WORK ..and went off on me for like 5 min’s before i could get a word in . It took me 45 minutes to talk him down ” Are you fucking crazy ??! Have you heard about these guys ??! You won’t go to church but you talk to a cult ??! Get your head out of your ass .!!! ” I kid you not . He said to go to google and check out all the bad stuff ..and named Tony’s blog as a resource that came up on his search bar . I said ..” THAT is the guy who wrote the book ” ( I even wrote about this on the day Tony was here )

    So yeah ..i am a bit conflicted about a father who found out all the bad shit ….and did not make that phone call or have that conversation . So …i’m gonna go for a quick walk and call my Da to tell him i love him

    • aquaclara

      I can see where you take after your dad. It’s a wonderful thing for you, and for your daughter!
      Love it. Love it. Love it.

      Given that I have family still in Clearwater who would react pretty much like your dad, I have to be careful to use the preface ANTI-Scientology thing…of course, now they now.

    • Sherbet

      Kim, I don’t always agree with a simplistic view that “they shouldn’t have done that” as the reason not to show compassion. However, I have to go along with your assessment of Brian Sheen, because IIRC Tony’s first story about him revealed some holes or inconsistencies in his stories. I cut every ex some slack, but I’m not sure Sheen is always telling the truth about what really happened and when. Still, when it comes to disconnection, it’s abominable (the worst word I can think of right now), and I hope his family – like Phil and Willie’s and many other disconnected exes’ families — can come back together again. As a mom, I don’t know how they manage daily, knowing that child or children of theirs chose the fake church over real family love.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i always end up there …feeling compassion as a mother .

        • Sherbet

          Yup.

    • He couldn’t stop her. She was born in like me. She was a part of the church from the get. She went to Scientology Schools, I attended one such school with Spring on summer while I was visiting my father. Most people who left in the 70’s and 80’s all took the same approach, “as long as my family is happy I will bite my tongue.” Which worked for many decades. People who had floated away from the church weren’t hunted or targeted and were allowed for all intents and purposes to be a full part of their families with no oversight from the church. All of that changed in the late 90’s. Since that point EVERYTHING is monitored by the church. They scour the internet for signs of dissension and spend countless hours tracking down every dissenter, identifying them and ensuring the FULL disconnection from their families or ELSE. When the church turned the tables on Brian that is when he started speaking out. His daughter Spring worked with me at Celebrity Centre and she left there long before I did. She wasn’t really doing anything in the church for well over a decade and then she got married to a MAJOR Scientology family and that is when the shit hit the fan. Hope that clarifies a bit. Also ALL of the data your father has access to right now wasn’t available in the 70’s and 80’s because of the lack of internet. With the rise of the internet you see the rise of disconnection.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Seems like this is a tactic the CoS has been taking with younger members they want to keep locked down–marry them off to more powerful spouses/families within the organization. I’m thinking of Emily Jones here…

        • Mark Foster

          Yes. ” Safe-pointing”.

        • That is absolutely part of the strategy. Keeping everyone in the bubble. NO outsiders. And if you do happen to become involved with one and they DON’T convert, dump them quick.

          • Mark Foster

            Yeah, Nora, cuz…galactic salvation! A never-ending “hill-10”. You´re either with us or against us! We are mankind´s ONLY hope! Don´t be a dilettante wanker and don´t associate with dillettante wankers! 100% standard tech! Hoo-ah!

      • Cosmo Pidgeon

        Yes

      • Bob

        Scientology is supported and propped up by the Nuevo Riche families who love their status, their privilege their high and mighty ethics records, their donation pins and supposed OT powers.
        It makes sense that for Bryan’s daughter to stay married, had to disconnect. She has to be squeaky clean which means disconnecting from any and all exes including her father.
        I guarantee that someday she will regret it.
        Once you are convinced by the cherch that your only road to salvation and eternity is through Scientology you will do anything to safeguard that including selling your body and soul. I’ve been there. Horrible.

        • I know Spring. She is already regretting it. This is tearing her apart on a daily basis. She is desperate for a family, something she has dreamed of since we were in the Sea Org together. She wanted to have a baby so badly. Her husband wouldn’t leave with her when the rules changed. They were deeply in love. Very deep. And this is her first marriage since then, 20 years later. She is focused on that now. She will keep regretting it every step of the way.

          • Bob

            That’s sad. Nora I appreciate your work and compassion. Great to have you here. To provide your comments based on experience.

          • She should leave with her husband. Simple. He’s probably wanting to leave, but afraid to tell. Because, well, it’s a cult.

      • Kim O’Brien

        your story really hit me when i first heard it . Both you and Derek . I always come back to the space of the kids who were born into this organization . There is an abdication of the role of the parent ….joyfully..( almost as a relief to some parents ) that just takes my breath away . Disconnection …as a policy ..is just so horrible i have a hard time wrapping my head around it . But it is almost like that when someone goes up the bridge …they are just being prepped for disconnection ..no matter what . At the end of that journey ..when an OTeleven or whatever …looks around them …who could possible be left ? I think what you are doing is amazing …i just hate the fact that you have to do it .

        • Well if no one stands up and speaks the truth then they get away with it. It is unacceptable to me. Freedom is free and humans should be free to be together and to love one another. I hate so much how hypocritical Scientology is about love and freedom. It is very different for those of us born in. But there are so many of us out now and more and more of us are speaking out.

          • Kim O’Brien

            You are doing a great job ..keep it up

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Did you ever know a drug addict or gambling addict that wound up emotionally blackmailing loved ones until it didn’t work anymore and then cut off all ties – or the family cut off all ties?
          Sometimes a mother, sometimes a son or daughter, sometimes father.
          Happens all the time, Kim. It all comes down to manipulation and addiction.

          • Kim O’Brien

            so who is the drug addict in this situation ? The church would say that Dad is the addict …a never in might say the daughter is the addict . Both might be right

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Yes!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This is the facts, Kim. I understand what you’re saying, but in many cases, there is no “well you KNEW so… no one knows what they’re getting into – that’s the whole point!.

    • jazzlover

      Actions speak louder than words. I have not noticed ONCE the action of Phil and Willie publicly shaming their kids for being Scientologists. Without realizing it, you are doing that to every ex present here for having fallen under the cloud during their lifetimes. The general idea behind this place is (or should be): everybody makes mistakes and everybody gets second chances. It’s ALWAYS what you do next that matters most.

      • Kim O’Brien

        what did he do next ..after he realized that scientology was really bad ? Nothing . What did he do next when she stayed in scientology ? Nothing . What did he do next when she married a rich scientologist ? Nothing . ( went to the wedding )

        All this guy does ..is nothing . He has had one NEXT after NEXT after NEXT chance to do something . He went to the freaking wedding . He was totally fine with her being surrounded by shitty people ..until they treated him like shit .

        Gimmie a break .

        • jazzlover

          Staying true to the unhinged? Try seeing the other side. You’re a single mom. Make an attempt to understand the dilemma facing single dads. If you do that, you’ll understand exactly why there’s nothing he could have done. Give me a break. Please.

          • Kim O’Brien

            i am not a single parent ..i am the sole parent .

            • jazzlover

              There is often no difference in cases of broken families. Try to put yourself in someone’s place before criticizing what he did or didn’t do. The guy is putting himself out there and wants help, for reasons that are important to him. What purpose does criticizing him serve? Are there really many people here who couldn’t be criticized for one thing or another themselves?

        • Mark Foster

          Kim, even though I think the issue is not as simple as you suggest, I am glad that you are sharing your view. There are lots of folks who have never been in cults who scratch their heads in “wtf?” disbelief and outrage and express similar sentiments to yours…and, internet or no internet, there IS the issue of personal responsibility for informing one´s self about these kinds of groups/cults. Your comments make me reflect on that point, so thank you…

          • Bob

            Mark, I think we’ve all had our noses rubbed in the fact of how stupid we were for getting to Scientology and staying. There are many reasons for that. Tony’s site is a great place to view different points of view. Personally I don’t see any benefit from people who can only espouse a black and white view of the world.
            Jon Atack talked about it brilliantly. Two valued logic.

            • Mark Foster

              Bob, good point. Still, I can appreciate the importance of taking responsibility for my mistakes. It is not about beating myself up or getting lost in shame, but simply acknowledging what I did or did not do that contributed to my involvement in and debasement by a cult…and then, through action, making positive changes and repairing, as best I can, some of the damage, whether in my self or my relationships with others…

            • Bob

              Yes, still doing that myself. One thing I learned from crashing and burning was compassion. If some one is working towards rectifying their mistakes specially against something like the cherch I feel compassion for them not derision.

            • Mark Foster

              Yeah, maing! Bingo. And…compared to the cult cog diss and thought-stopping and anxiety and self-criticism and suppression of emotions, feeling genuine compassion for another person is delicious !

          • Kim O’Brien

            you make me think about things too ..i really appreciate it

    • Skabetti

      Tell him for me, too.

      Wow, this went into the wrong place in the discussion. I meant tell your dad you love him for me, too.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      He probably never said anything because he knew Disconnection would be the result. So he tried to play supportive to keep his daughter. This is one of the ways Scientology keeps members.

      • jazzlover

        Or maybe, just maybe, he’s an open-minded, progressive thinking kinda guy. I know they’re rare, but still, they do exist. I simply don’t get why certain people are seen as disingenuous, and others not.

        • Kim O’Brien

          because some people are genuine ..and some are not ..and some people pick up on that . Glad he was able to open a Yoga studio though . Gotta love those open minded , progressive men who leave their small kids in a cult so they can go on a vision quest

          • jazzlover

            How on earth are you picking up on anything while posting through a haze?

            • Kim O’Brien

              look Jazzlover ..you are just going to have to face the fact that iI don’t feel sorry for EVERY ex. I do not think that every parent in scientology ..is a good one . I do not think that every ex ..was a good person who was corrupted . I think some of them were totally horrible people and that is what attracted them to scientology in the first place .

            • jazzlover

              Learn to use a filter. You don’t need to voice every idea that pops into your head. I suspect you just lost a few supporters here.

            • Kim O’Brien

              supporters ? LOL .. That is a weird thing to say . I am the first to admit that at times…i can be a bit harsh …but if you think i am going to take filter lessons from someone who joined a cult that tells everyone to shut up …you must be confused .

            • Bob

              Jazzlover, People who think with two valued logic most often cannot be reasoned with. There is no gray. Just black and white.

            • jazzlover

              It goes beyond that, but you make a very valid point. Thank you.

            • Bob

              Yes I have experienced that as well. However Tony’s site is a very good melting pot of different points of view.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. That’s a mild way of putting it, I suppose.

            • Bob

              I bite my tongue.:-)

    • kemist

      He could not do that because it’s their own choice… Just like you can’t forcibly remove your adult daughter from an abusive relationship. Or force your adult son to take the antipsychotics he needs to stop hearing those voices.

      Yes, it is hard and unfair. But that’s what freedom of choice means.

      In the case of cults, I think most experts will agree that over criticizing the person’s choices will make them more rigid in their position. You have to be more… strategic about it.

      • Kim O’Brien

        he left in 1979 for fucks sake .

        • kemist

          Yes, but the kid’s mom (Jennifer) remained a scientologist after their divorce.

          If he had started criticizing scientology in front of his daughter, with the snitching culture that exists within the cult, that would have probably been a recipe for loss of custody.

          As it is now, he could keep contact with his daughter well into adulthood, and she knows he will be there to support her if/when she leaves.

          • Kim O’Brien

            i did not get the vibe from him ( nor do i remember reading ) that he WOULD have said something years ago if he could have . I got the feeling that he was on his own vision quest ..and was just fine to let his ex raise the kids while he ” finds himself” .

            I feel bad for her . Being raised in scientology must be tough .

            • kemist

              The situation makes me think of that german movie about scientology – that couple who get in, have a daughter, and then the guy leaves.

              After he says bad things about scientology to his small daughter, they get reported to the kid’s mother and he loses his daughter’s custody. It ends with the girl agreeing with her mom that her father is a bad person and that she does not want to see him again.

              It’s one of the scariest movie I’ve ever seen.

              I don’t know what I would have done if I had been in his situation.

            • Xique

              Scary movie, I’ll never forget it.

            • Kim O’Brien

              very fair point

    • upvote for the last sentiment.

      Don’t forget that the victims are not making an informed choice. Ever. That’s what cults do. It’s called undue influence, and happily law courts do know what it is. (Check out the background chapter in “opening minds” by Jon Atack.)

      • Qbird

        Soooooo much good information on the website. A person can get lost there for a time.
        Good readings.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i always feel badly for the kids who had no choice . She must be having a horrible time of this ..i can’t imagine that it would be easy .

    • Nat-leficent

      Thank you for keeping it real and not always trusting ever sob story out there. Honestly the inability to speak freely about the inconsistencies and/or the basic ridiculousnessof some of the latest ex stories around here is one of the reasons I am around less.
      There’s a real bandwagon mentality lately about ex cuties ALL being victims/heroes that doesn’t sit well with me.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i am a cynic …and group think creeps me the hell out . This guy is nothing like Phil and Willie …and I am totally comfortable trusting my instincts . Has kept me out of a ton of bad situations 😉

        • Nat-leficent

          I am the same way.

  • aquaclara

    I wrote a letter to my church today. In it, I expressed my disagreement with them on a topic they are clinging tightly to. It’s not the first time, and it most certainly won’t be the last time.

    Lurkers, please note:

    1. I’m still a member of the church in good standing. I will remain so even after they read this most current letter. They won’t kick me out for expressing a point of view that is counter to theirs.
    2. They write me back. We have quite a nice relationship. I have a nice note from the Archbishop, too. Even at the top, they read their mail and correspond with me and others.
    3. I will not have to be sec-checked or have anything to confess.
    4. I’m not going to hell for this.
    5. I can (and most certainly will) tell all my friends about it, and nothing bad will happen.
    6. No one will follow me, harass me or charge me more money. In fact, my donations are totally up to me (and temporarily suspended until they fix this problem). I’m still a member of the church, in good standing.
    7. No one will make me feel guilty for my thoughts or point of view.

    How’s that stack up with your church?

    • Linda Clement

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!

    • Suzy

      And most importantly your church won’t tell your family members to disconnect

      • aquaclara

        Nope. Unheard of.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      So well said.

    • jazzlover

      Don’t look now, but a kid in a Flyers jersey just took out your mailbox with a baseball bat 😉

    • Sherbet

      Love ya, aquaclara!

    • Mark Foster

      Wow, fancy that: passionate,yet civil, disagreement between members of the same group 🙂 Good for you and the members and leaders of your church 🙂

      • jazzlover

        Every time that happens, Farrakhan loses another tooth 😉

        • Mark Foster

          JL, let´s send him some pomade…

          • jazzlover

            LOL. That’ll solve the problem 😉

    • Mrs. V.

      I think this is one of the strongest arguments non-scientologists have against disconnection and the idea of free thought. It shows how you can disagree with your religion and its leaders, have your own thoughts and opinions and not be penalized for it, instead of having to always agree with everything or lose everything, and claim you’re thinking on your own and your mind is free.

      • Skabetti

        I also always take issue with the blanket statement from the uninformed (usually posted in comment sections after articles on scientology) that “all religions are cults.” Um, no. They’re not. There are certain criteria that make organizations cults. Many religions follow erroneous paths, make mistakes, even cover up unlawful activities. That makes them objectionable, sometimes even horrible. But it doesn’t make them cults. I usually try to respond to comments like that, hoping to provide food for thought.

        • Mrs. V.

          Exactly.

    • Scream Nevermore

      And I have just spent a nice day with my mum, despite the fact that I walked away from the religion I was brought up in many, many years ago. She’s still allowed to talk to me. So’s the rest of my family. Their parish priest still says hello when he sees me. How about that, Scientology?

      • Mark Foster

        So much for scientology´s ” communication is the universal solvent” maxim, eh?

        • Exactly. It’s easy to be too jaded to notice the rabid hypocrisy of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology, but it really puts it (and other cults) in a different groups from religions (they’re a cult – duh!).

          A religion (i.e. the ideas) is not only bigger than the physical organisation, it also displays ability to change. A cult has neither of these characteristics.

        • Missionary Kid

          It is. They just define communication as agreement, so their definition requires that you agree.

          • Saint

            Perfect.

    • Missionary Kid

      The Catholic church hasn’t always been that way, but at least they are now. The Inquisition was an example of past behavior. The punishment was far worse than simple disconnection.

      There are, of course, always different churches and individual leaders who don’t take the civilized approach to discussing beliefs or handling disagreements. The Mormons and JWs have their own versions of how they handle people they disagree with, or who don’t follow doctrine.

      At least, even with those forms of disconnection, fair game is not practiced, although in communities where one sect dominates, they can get pretty rough on apostates.

      $cientology is different because even if one wants to come back, one has not only to make amends, but pay big money for the privilege.

    • Flying High

      Yes it is so different in the real world and with correspondences with Real Religions where voiced concerns are actually heard. On your point 5 in reference to the Catholic Church, it is true that Pope Francis was a bouncer during his early years – While a student in Buenos Aires, Jorge Mario Bergoglio worked as a doorman at a nightclub. Thus if this came up in casual conversation among parishioners there would be no KR on you for mentioning this sent up to the higher Diocese Church over your parish for you to be “punished.”

    • Juicer77

      Good for you standing up to them on this!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        She Seems so mild mannered. Hah! so was Clark Kent 🙂

        • Juicer77

          Don’t let her fool you. Pure dynamite, that one!

  • 10oriocookies

    It simply isnt healthy for him to be engaging in that sort of behavior. Im glad you took a stand and want a higher quality of discussion here.

    • flyonthewall

      • Sherbet

        Media_lush.

        • flyonthewall

          ooohhh

      • 10oriocookies

        To be constantly focused on and spewing negativity. It’s not healthy.

  • Sid (Phil Jones)

    I think that what Brian bumped into when he visited his daughter is going to be one of the most difficult things to overcome in this disconnection abuse situation.

    It isn’t completely about whether there is a policy of disconnection, or even if there is a ‘practice’ of disconnection without a policy. The manipulative coercion and mental conditioning of those inside to automatically hate and mentally block any communication from someone who is a declared SP (Suppressive Person) is in place pretty heavily in most. First of all the communication from the SP is discounted almost completely, while automatic thought stoppers come into play. “You need to handle your situation”, “Your only terminal is the IJC”, all the while knowing that all SPs have huge crimes against humanity and are trying to stop Scientology, which itself is the only salvation of mankind and the universe.

    I think it pretty rare if at all that one can just approach a Scientologist who has disconnected from you and get through to them with any semblence of reason. That said I think what Brian did was the right thing to do. We need to expose this whole disconnectin thing for what it is, and that includes the showing the reactions of those still inside to their disconnected family members.

    When Willie and I were leaving L.A. yesterday we saw for ourselves immediately the impact the press was having on all of this. As we were checking out of the hotel the manager came out of his office to talk to us. He had seen us on TV and wanted to offer his support. He said several times, “I had no idea this was going on”. At the restaurant almost the same exact thing happened. The manager of the restaurant came over to us to offer his condolences and support.

    People need to know about this abusive practice. We ‘watchers’ are well versed in what is going on. Now it’s time to really shine the light on Scientology abuses to more and more people, and I thank Brian for adding his story to the mix.

    • You and Willie are brave beyond words. The good news is, there are so MANY more sane people out there who see the story and get what it really means like those two managers did. Scientology is fading faster than I think any of us could have dreamed. It is because of you two and this billboard and so much more. The two of you will inspire MORE parents to come forward and show their faces to the world and ask for their children to call them. I hope that your kids see the billboard and pick up the phone. Someday.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Nora, Yours is a huge voice in this. You have such a clear and concise way of communicating about this stuff and showing so many other sides of the Scientology abusive practices that are so important to expose. I’m so glad you’re out there doing what you’re doing. (and doing so well). Between us all we’ll end these abuses.

        • YAY TEAM!!! It’s good to have a Squad that has you and Willie in it let me tell you. There are more of us now out there talking then there are people saying nice things. The balance of justice is tipping in our favor.

    • jazzlover

      Thanks for saying this, Phil. Truer words have never been spoken. I’ve been saying all along that the only way to take down this cult would be to get more never-ins clued into things they can also relate to — like protection of basic human rights and free will. Much respect from me to you and yours. Keep at it — you are making a difference.

    • flyonthewall

      what about instead of having one billboard up for a long time, you have two of them up for a slightly shorter time?

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Baseball season starts now. That billboard is on the route to Dodger Stadium and will get an additional 2 or 3 million views out of that. Coverage.

        • flyonthewall

          smart. That’s why you’re the brains of this operation

          • Sid (Phil Jones)

            I don’t see that ‘post’ on my Org Board. If it isn’t written it isn’t true.

        • jazzlover

          And if the route gets all the traffic tie-ups LA is known for, all the better 🙂

          • Missionary Kid

            As I reported, from 9:45, when I got there, until about 1:00, when I left, then later on, when I came back around 3:30-5:15, the traffic coming off of the Glendale Freeway was always stop and go. That was in the middle of the week, and rush hour was over. The reason is that it is a freeway ending on a street with stop lights.

            It isn’t a parking lot, but one has plenty of time to look straight ahead because of a small bend in the road, and see the billboard. Even with the telephone poles that are far in front of it, “Call Me” is incredibly visible, and the perfect way to attract attention. Once dodger games start, that route becomes even more traveled.

            Phil and family done good!!!

            • jazzlover

              City planners and their sometimes crazy ideas about what makes sense never fails to amaze me. I know that they are sometimes left with very few choices, but still. I feel for you. Traffic in and around NYC isn’t much better, and believe it or not, Bloomberg (I believe) was once fighting to put tolls on the Queensborough Bridge (aka 59th Street Bridge). If you’ve never been around that area, just know that such an idea would have backed traffic up to Eastern Long Island daily.

            • MaxSpaceman

              to freakin’ Montauk it woulda backed-up traffic.

            • jazzlover

              Yup, but why should guys like Bloomberg or Giuliani care? 😉

            • MaxSpaceman

              right they helicopter it so dey dont

          • Sid (Phil Jones)

            Traffic is almost always stop and go there. We stood watching people in cars sitting in traffic and most of them looking up at the billboard.

        • Allie

          Excellent. I’m sure it will generate lots of discussions And maybe lots of folks diving down the rabbit holes wanting to learn more. You’ve started a “movement”. Cheers to you, Phil and Willie

        • Saint

          Maybe an ad on the Dodger Stadium jumbotron would not go amiss. Baseball fan, here.

    • flyonthewall

      I think maybe we are finally reaching a turning point where people now see Scientology as a dangerous, destructive cult rather than that hokey weird Hollywood Tom Cruise religion. Good job on doing your part Phil & Willie

      • Juicer77

        The last 12 months have gotten the public’s attention on a wide scale that these are REAL people recovering from – and still being subjected to – REAL abuse. Finally, finally people are starting to get that this is regular $cientology practice, not a few rare instances.

    • Richard

      Fortunately, I was never involved with disconnection, but the mind frame of a Scientologist is so embedded that anybody who says a word against their doctrines is attacked or avoided.

      Here’s a small personal story that I find quite embarrassing now. Bear in mind that I was never a total believer, so just think what a Sea Org member, in comparison, has been indoctrinated to believe.

      Some years ago, I went out with a lady friend for dinner. At a certain point, this lady began to tell me that she was seeing a psychologist and having some psychotherapy sessions. Just hearing the word ‘psychologist’ started me off on a heated rant about how dangerous the whole subject of psychology was and how psychologists ruined any patient who entered one of their clinics.

      The poor lady thought I was crazy and just couldn’t understand why I was getting so worked up.

      Looking back on it, it’s called mind altering indoctrination and as we all know, Scientology has got it down to perfection.

      • flyonthewall

        Instilling a hatred of psychiatry in its followers has got to be one of the weirdest parts of Scientology

        • Qbird

          right beneath telling them that Hubbard was a scientist who created a workable technology that will provide them Super Powerz…
          given enough money…
          & time.

          “You’re Clear… no you’re not.” On to a fake ‘Bridge’ you must go.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          And one of the most insidious, as it prevents people from getting real help when they need. Instead, it funnels them right back into the destructive “tech” of scientology. In a fucked up way, it was a smart way to design the system. You know, if you’re a sociopath and all.

        • Jake Hamby

          This is the part that aggravates me, because some people really need medication, and ADHD and depression are real conditions that really respond to pills. There are a lot of people who aren’t Scientologists who think a lot of psychiatric conditions are made-up and people could just “not be depressed” or “not have ADHD” with the right attitude. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

          It’s especially irritating when ignorant people blame parents for causing their kids’ ADHD due to bad parenting. Sorry, it’s neurological. Maybe they passed on some bad genetics, but it’s not a lack of discipline that causes ADHD. It’s a brain difference.

          So it really gets to me that Scientologists spend lots of money to spread lies about real medical conditions and discourage people from seeking medication that could possibly make a huge improvement to their quality of life.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Ha! I’m sure that in the past I’ve ranted on ‘crazy’ stuff as well. So blind are the holy righteous.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Dude- what fantastic response and reaction from the public-at-large! Just fantastic!

      That had to feel ‘so’ good, Sid :))

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Well, we’re not really outgoing or public types so it’s a bit overwhelming but we need to get the message out so it’s good to see it working.

        • MaxSpaceman

          zackly

    • Sunny

      Sid, Sadly what you write is true, and also not true.
      I have a long history of being on the tech lines in Scientology. What that means, for never-ins, is that I oversaw a lot of what handlings were done on people in their “journey (if you will)” in Scientology. Part of this was the direction of handlings done on persons who were connected to a suppressive person, or someone who is anti-Scientology.
      I would say about 15% would agree with disconnection and go with the flow. Most Scientologists don’t want to disconnect, but they are made to. I have seen many times screaming crying grief at having to disconnect from a family member.
      What that “SP” or “anti-Scientologist” sees is the family member disconnecting, after they have had hours and hours of handlings and drilling on what to do and say to the person they are disconnecting from.
      Once they have gotten past the upset of disconnecting, it is like they are on another level and just pretend everything is ok.
      But on the inside, deep down, (and I have seen it over and over and over again), these people in Scn that disconnect from their family are DEEPLY upset about it. They won’t show it to you. I have seen some of them have family members pass away without them being able to see them again (because of disconnection) and the massive upset that it creates for them. So they go in session to handle their grief and carry on.
      It is a sad and very freaky phenomenon.
      Has the Scn procedure of disconnection ever been covered anywhere? It is a series of steps. Curious if it has been.

      • TexasBroad

        It’s so heartbreaking Sunny. Sad and freaky to be sure. Manipulation and extortion.

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        I’m actually glad to hear this. It gives us more hope to break them out.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I concur and can confirm what Sunny said, Phil. Not as a tech terminal, but from tours and later, just running into public, some staff, some on front group lines. I learned to listen, not when I fell into Scientology, but from the beginning and especially as a writer and performing artist.

          I listened because I was interested, I cared, always eager to learn new or different. Even way back when I was Sea Org, I would have staff and public tell me stuff they didn’t dare say to others. Through the decades, it’s pretty much been consistent and Sunny’s 15% rings true. That 15% are further immersed in mental health issues, whether as fanatical or something else going on with them.

          In other words, Disconnection is not the problem for that group so it doesn’t register. They have long suffered, undiagnosed, untreated health issues that while ironically have been stuffed and muffled hard and deep is always this unseen threatening force right up in their face. Everyone else it was so painful and a source of constant frustration. It was right up there in the “don’t think of a pink elephant” constant. I can say for myself that I didn’t agree with at least 95% of any I knew had been declared. There were a few, like some regges, that really screwed up and committed some real fraud.They needed real justice though. They were not monsterous “SP’s” though even by Hubbard’s policy standards.

          Just my experiences if this helps any.

      • Saint

        Thank you so much for that. You are right about what the “SP” sees. And what the “SP” sees is a parent, or child, or friend, or lover that really, honestly does not give a shit about the pain they are causing. Thank you for providing a new perspective.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I am glad to hear you say this, Sunny, because although still heartbreaking, it reaffirms what I’ve long thought must be true: that for most people, the pain is there, but suppressed or sublimated. Unfortunately, it will manifest itself in one way or another and eventually wreak an emotional toll on the person. Disconnection is a damaging process for both sides involved.

        • Missionary Kid

          I have said for a long time that emotions are like an air mattress. If you hold it down or step on it in one place, it pops up elsewhere.

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Perfect analogy.

      • Kay

        I agree with you about the mental process that has to go on to disconnect. That is “dissociative” behavior in psychiatric terms. That refers to someone just emotionally completely detaching themselves from their normal emotions and personality due to a traumatic situation or event so that they do not feel the ramifications of those feelings. People can push that way down in their consciousness because they can’t cope with the pain or the cognitive dissonance of the situation. They are in complete denial with no consciousness of that denial. That’s why seeing a person they have disconnected with is usually initially so upsetting…..the presence of that person threatens to unearth all of those feelings and associations.

        On the other hand, the mental energy that it takes to suppress all of that can and does run out in many cases and normal feelings and judgment can start to surface again. It takes a lot of mental energy to repress all of the pain of disconnection, and to suppress all of your prior instincts and associations. (not to mention being able to admit to yourself that the group you are involved in is completely bogus and exists only to victimize and abuse you) My personal opinion is that when a person can no longer suppress all of that contradictory information, their psyche opens up a bit, and they are in a position where they have sudden insight, or an epiphany regarding the reality of their situation. Sometimes, they do something about it immediately, sometimes it takes awhile, but in my experience with cult survivors, once they realize the truth, it is truly the beginning of the end. Any number of triggers can cause this epiphany if the brain is ready. (even a billboard !!)

        • Saint

          It could happen in layers. In my case, the epiphany came about disconnection but not anything else. Still can’t see the beginning of the end, and not really convinced there is going to be an end for my family, other than when they die. But you never know.

          • picketflag247

            Start picketing! Make a scene using any legal method! Disrupt their com lines and badger your elected politicians for help!

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Sunny that brings tears to my eyes, having had a family member disconnect from me for five years, then reconnect, and now be very close to disconnecting again. You are right that on the outside I just see the disconnection. I do not see the pressure, and the pain. Thank you for letting us know this side of it.

        • Orglodyte

          Ow, Free Minds, I’m sorry to read that your family member is close to disconnecting again. Hugs. I hope it doesn’t happen.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Thanks you, Orglodyte. Me too, I am working as hard as I can to prevent it from happening.

      • Sunny, spot on. Just like when we would have doubts about being in the SO it never goes away you just shut the fuck up about it and keep going because getting put on decks or sec checks doesn’t change anything. It just makes it worse. People who were disconnected from their families were always miserable. And every time they brought it up they would just get ANOTHER PTS handling. The vicious cycle of Scientology is just amazingly disgusting!

      • salin

        Tragic. Induced, deep emotional turmoil around ripping apart families, as a ‘normalized’ process for auditors to ‘contain’ (that is – to move the person experiencing this grief to bury, then ignore, then denigrate the person(s) who have been disconnected.) Numbing.

      • UhLasare

        This is horrific.

    • Flying High

      This is awesome Sid, and more support continues to grow in numbers. The only real stat that’s increasing!

    • Juicer77

      The eternal optimist in me wonders if Springsong’s increased vehemence means she’s fighting that little voice inside… the one that is telling her to leave for good… Persistence and kindness pays off.

    • Saint

      The thing that stuck out at me in Brian’s story is for how long he had not been a scieno and they tried to run that trip on him. My parents tried to run that on me, and I was not a scieno. Why would I be required to abide by the rules of an organization of which I was not a member. This is also why I rooted for Mosey …she didn’t sign up for that nonsense. Brian had not been part of it for more than 30 years and he’s supposed to opt back in? Wholly irrational.

    • Kay

      “It isn’t completely about whether there is a policy of disconnection, or even if there is a ‘practice’ of disconnection without a policy.”

      THAT is a great statement !! Also, I am so gratified that “the person on the street” now realizes what is going on with disconnection. Not everyone will read Going Clear or Troublemaker, but millions will see those press interviews and understand on a human level what suffering is being caused by the CoS. What a great job you guys are doing, truly.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Phil, that paragraph about the hotel manager and the restaurant manager brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your courage, your love for your children, and for shining this spotlight. Thank you. That’s all.

    • Mary

      In 1973 I thought the only people declared a Suppressive Person was an actual evil person – you know – someone who beats his wife, someone who actually doesn’t like people getting better or improving. This is what we were taught; so we said, “okay.” Never heard of anyone declared from 1973 until David Mayo in the 80’s. David Miscavige started declaring people Suppressive if after years of psychological torment, extortion and rip-off C/Sing (the parishioner) or out-right physical assault or false imprisonment (SO members), or discovering this was happening, they screamed “I’M done with scientology. He blatantly used Disconnection as a way to control good people and condone abuse. I wasn’t aware of it until david miscavige was in control and then it was too late to say, “No thanks.” Moral to the story is “Don’t give up rights and freedoms because you think it can’t happen to you.” Now it’s a religious right and anyone fighting it is against individual choice of religion.

    • PickAnotherID

      When Willie and I were leaving L.A. yesterday we saw for ourselves
      immediately the impact the press was having on all of this. As we were
      checking out of the hotel the manager came out of his office to talk to
      us. He had seen us on TV and wanted to offer his support. He said
      several times, “I had no idea this was going on”. At the restaurant
      almost the same exact thing happened. The manager of the restaurant came
      over to us to offer his condolences and support.

      Like I said earlier, the media attention “The Billboard” has garnered is getting the attention of what I call the “civilians” in the fight agains $cientology’s abuses like nothing before. And Miscavige, think on this, YOU PULLED IT IN with your meddling in the original billboard contracts. No one else, just you.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Nora had me in tears in Toronto and I was not the only one.
    Kudos, signora – yours is an important voice.

    The number of brave articulate ex-$cientologists who are speaking out
    is just growing and growing. When I hear Chris and Nora who are making major contributions,
    Nick Lister and Derek, Aaron, now one of the Ribisis …
    And Phil and Willie found a brilliant way to be heard.

    Critical mass, DM
    Critical mass, Dave, AND criticizing your critical mess.

    What a year this is turning out to be.
    2015 was a very fine vintage.
    But 2016 may just edge it.

    DM ruthless?
    Maybe footless, more like it, soon.

    • Hugs to you Pan!!!!

      • Missionary Kid

        Nora, you’re one of my favorite kick-ass women, and I love kick-ass women.

        • Awww!!!

          • Missionary Kid

            The admiration is deserved. You’re honest, straight forward, and funny as hell in person. The ‘net doesn’t do you justice, but most of it comes through.

      • Xique

        Mesmerized by your Media Mayhem interview Nora, holy shit. You are one strong individual , one very powerful woman! I honestly can not fathom what they put you through. Good for you on getting the hell away from the insanity!

      • Vaquera

        I was sitting next to Pan and teared up right along with him…and with you. Truth coupled with compassion make for a powerful speech. You have it in spades, my friend.

    • jazzlover

      Footless and Slightly Slack 😉

  • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

    Scientology has become a torture group, as Nora and many others have described it.
    This will end badly.
    Supporting this group in any fashion is a sin that will take a long long time to pay off.
    Usually called Karma.

    It parallels the insanity of government, now hitting a high pitch.
    Yesterday I even read that HUD is trying to quickly pass a regulation that makes
    living in an RV or A “Tiny House” (a small cute house built on a wheeled trailer)
    a crime.
    There have to be many better places to live than the U.S.

    • Mark Foster

      It always was a torture group.

      • Scream Nevermore

        But now more people know that, and the number is growing.

      • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

        You are right, Mark.
        I know several people that had to escape Hubbard’s ship
        and his sadistic environment for their sanity.

    • flyonthewall

      stupid insane govt with their crazy roads, courts, law enforcement. public education and transportation/food safety mechanisms. I hate them so much

      • Quite right! What have the Romans ever done for us?

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

        • flyonthewall

          eggs-actly

      • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

        Yes, the inmates are running the asylum, for sure.
        I really don’t no where to go. Maybe Mexico.

        • Mark Foster

          Hey, SIADED, Fly was joking…

          • flyonthewall

            lol, smh. Oh well

        • flyonthewall

          i think I heard they have govt in Mexico too. Sorry to break it to you

          • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

            Yes. It was just an off-the-cuff remark.
            A small town in Ecuador or Colombia would be better, perhaps.

            Earth is now at the bottom of the barrel, and I don’t know
            how many lifetimes it might take to straighten it out.

        • madame duran

          Yes, please avoid Canada. Besides, it’s too cold up here.

          • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

            Thank you.
            It has never been on my list.

    • Missionary Kid

      $cientology has become a torture group? It always was, because it was created by a sadist.

      • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

        Actually I just posted exactly that.

        I wish I’d come to the sign unveiling, and seen you again.
        I sat near to you at Tony’s book event in Hollywood.

        • Missionary Kid

          I guess I owe you a coke. 🙂

          While there weren’t that many people at the unveiling, like most events like that, they’re all interesting people.

          • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

            Good attitude, and at a deeper level (now) it is the way I feel too.
            There will be other opportunities, although I avoid Scientology mostly.

  • nottrue
    • Kay

      Hmmmm….she sounds more restrained in this tweet than she usually does. I wonder what she needs “luck” for ? That is quite cryptic.

    • daisy

      Notice the Pay here sign in the background. Particularly apt .

  • Why I speak out.

    • Jimmy3

      You need to go back and steal the Theta Star plans

    • flyonthewall

      the freedom to post awesome gifs. I hear you sister. word

    • Newiga

      Eleventy upvotes!

    • Newiga

      PS. Your story is absolutely fascinating. My ears are glued to the headset while listening to your interview.

      Thank you for being a rebel and speaking out.

  • willloomis

    I went to Musicians Institute in Hollywood in the summer of 2011 right next to the Scientology building pictured below, and I’ll never forget what I saw. I walked out of the side door of the M.I. building, smoking a cigarette, and I saw a group of about 4 people dragging this guy who was obviously trying to escape, dragging him back in to the Scientology building. At that time the building was all covered up by paper and appeared to be closed. I was about a city block away from this tussle, and I froze, it was over pretty quick they got him back inside. Looking back an knowing what I know now I wish I had tried to intervene. I wasn’t the only M.I. person who saw it, we were all creeped out being next to that building.

    • Skabetti

      Kindly thought, except…what could you have done?

      • Ella Raitch

        Called the police

    • Apologist academics: “People can leave the Sea Org any time they want to”. I guess if someone can’t overcome four people dragging them back, they didn’t really want to leave.

  • Qbird

    tornados have whapped Florida today – hope everyone’s all good there.

    • seriouslyWTF

      Scary and beautiful at the same time. Amazing shot.

    • Dice

      My Xenu! What a perfect picture – also because those are not on land. I have to check up on FLA

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      You know, OTs can handle that. Not.

    • Kay

      What a stunning photo !

    • chukicita

      That was yesterday, early in the morning. About 15 homes damaged in CW, but for the most part, we’re all good. 😀

      • Qbird

        oh good. weather freakin’ happens. I’m sitting in the middle of a snow storm. On my way out https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/79bee824e2ae129d81af9104f3131372ab1aba1da1615a4e96c06ff3910d9300.png to shovel… again!

        • chukicita

          Aw. Sending you some Florida sunshine. 😀

        • Kay

          I’m so sorry, and I feel your pain. Where I live, it sometimes snows in April, May and even June. There’s just something so wrong about shoveling snow when you just mowed your lawn, planted annuals and hung your hummingbird feeders up.

        • daisy

          I remember and empathize. I suggest complaining to everyone all the time , it helped.

        • Robert Eckert

          Detroit was spared the last couple snowstorms except for a little stuff that melted quickly. Apparently we are not to be so lucky with this one.

  • Mark

    Superb interview Nora, the first of many, I hope. Looks to me like the Norns or Nemesis have started to work in your favour after all… (recycle ‘Johnny Goodbugger’ shoop, sort of):

    • Mockingbird

      I think lesbians are offended to have Hubbard and Miscavige among them, just like all human beings are.

      • Mark

        Well, I hear they’re already banned from Grindr (F5):

        • Dice

          In the Navy 🙂

        • Scream Nevermore

          I’m going to have nightmares tonight!

        • Mockingbird

          I think you made bears and twinks across America sick with that one.

          • Mark

            You forgot the otters! 🙂

            • Mockingbird

              Can’t leave out the otters !

    • Oh man this shoop. I can’t. I’m offended and laughing my ass off at the same time because it’s so terrible it’s good. Thanks for the props. I just try to tell it like it is/was. Part two coming soon!

      • Mark

        More? Good! 🙂

      • Sherbet

        Well, Nora, do what we do in the Bunker: Consider the source. And by “source,” I don’t mean Hubbard. I mean Mark the Comic Shoopster.

    • gtsix

      Oh my god NO.

      Nope.

      Nope! (f5)

      http://i.imgur.com/b1lBW.gif

      • Juicer77

        XD

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I swear the one on the left has bleached hair. What a perv.

  • dagobarbz

    Fraud may be “very rare” on gofundme, but it’s a daily occurrence within Scientology.
    So when the two intersect…unsurprising if fraud follows.

  • sizzle8

    When I was a true believer, I had family and friends try to tell me about negative aspects of Scientology. My immediate reaction was to put up a wall and fight back. I refused to look, read or discuss. Hypnotism and brainwashing make you behave in illogical ways.
    What I did respond to was care and love and friendliness.
    My family and friends managed to keep me in their circle while biting their tongues off.
    I know it gnawed at them and was an incredible source of frustration. Bless their hearts.
    Eventually I looked behind the curtain and realized, even though it was in front of me all the time, that Scientology was too evil to continue to be a part of.
    I think that, at most, a statement to the Scientologist can be made that they must walk their own path and discover their own truth about Scientology. But “convincing” them usually results in them digging in their heels harder.
    I suggest birthday cards, photos, family news, upbeat or funny stuff, music, etc. The trust has to be rebuilt and/or maintained. Scientology eventually ‘dead agents’ itself.

    • Qbird

      love bombing in a sincere way, eh?!

      • sizzle8

        If it’s not sincere, it ain’t love.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Now, that is some epic truth right there. ; )

    • UhLasare

      This is how Chris Shelton recommends reaching loved ones in the Co$.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Steve Hassan “Freedom of Mind” suggests this approach, as well.

  • Mockingbird

    Good day Bunkeroos. I hope Brian is able to reconnect with his daughter, and the sooner the better. I have no interest in blaming him for the past, as the abuse, exploitation and harm Scientology causes is not justified in any way. I know some folks have said they have no sympathy for him but I think I would rather affirm his rights then diminish them.

    Gofundme has stepped up in a big way. A rare opportunity to congratulate a company for doing something helpful rather than profitable.

    I just started to listen to Nora Crest’s interview. She’s great.

    • jazzlover

      Agree on all points, M-Bird. Friday’s off to a good start 🙂

      • Mockingbird

        Yay ! With the success of the billboard I am cautiously optimistic ! And that is an accomplishment for someone who spent twenty five years in a mind control cult then learned their entire life was a lie.

        • jazzlover

          Look at it this way: your life is now filled with truth.

          • Mockingbird

            I hope so.

        • Dice

          “entire life was a lie” <— I have dealt with this 🙂 And I'm still pissed about it He he!

          • Mockingbird

            At least you can say he he !

  • chukicita

    Poor DM. Are there any executives left who he hasn’t incarcerated in his toy prison at Gold? Or does he have to do it all by himself?

    People keep leaving poop on the front porch of infinity and ringing the doorbell. I imagine this list is just part of his spreadsheet of ecclesiastical honey-dos:

    • Parents making news with billboards
    • Narconons dropping faster than my Q score
    • That Ortega guy
    • Raids in eastern European countries I can’t pronounce
    • Laura deCrescenzo and whatever other current lawsuits are ongoing
    • Dad’s book
    • Jon Atack’s new Open Minds Foundation
    • The embarrassment of Ideal Orgs opening to small bused-in crowds
    • I don’t want to hear the word BUNKER anymore – whether it’s The or Mark.
    • People keep asking where Shelly is
    • Chris Shelton telling people about critical thinking
    • The steady stream of documentaries, books, plays, and other cultural offerings that spark open dialogue and ask hard questions

    Scientology’s Hill 10 is fast becoming Hill 11.

    • Missionary Kid

      The beauty of all of DM’s personal thought stopping, as you listed, is that it only leads to more footbullets. All that he does is react in the same old ways that he was taught.

      • Allie

        And all his efforts keep back-firing on him. Badly. Haha
        You’d think he might just ONCE try something different (I know he must follow the Hubster’s policies)
        but at least he wouldn’t look so damn stupid. dumb, cavalier, insane, evil, dastardly, and so forth 😛

        • Missionary Kid

          What I wold encourage news organizations to do is insist that $cientology provide and actual person to issue statements.

          • Allie

            I’m not understanding what difference it would make. No matter whose name is attached to a statement or press release, it always seems to be Davey’s response.

            • Missionary Kid

              When there is no face to put forth for an organization, it makes the organization look even more impersonal and sinister.

              Davy probably won’t allow anyone else to be the voice of Scientology. The reason is that he is such a control freak. If he does find such a person, he will not like something that the person says, and he will attack that person, or send them to the RPF.

              Davy won’t appear, because he knows he’ll make a fool out of himself. I think that he is almost pathologically unsure of himself and convinced that he will not do well.

              The whole idea is to put $cientology, that is Davy, in a bind. He does not handle bad options like that well.

    • sizzle8

      “People keep leaving poop on the front porch of infinity and ringing the doorbell.”
      Perfect!

      • Missionary Kid

        It’s even better if the poop is in a paper bag, lit on fire. When people try to stomp it out, hilarity ensues.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous
  • TexasBroad

    Thank you to Brian for updating your disconnection story here and I look forward to hearing more soon, as Tony teased at the end. The disconnection aspect of member manipulation is the most relatable to the general public but even so, it is still so complicated. As everyone here understands, it isn’t just that you are to disconnect from an SP as policy, but that you are to take on the belief that the person is evil, to be pitied or disdained, that
    the disconnection is really, truly for one’s own good and for the good of all mankind. How do we distill that into an explainable bite?
    The beauty of the Call Me Philboard is that it is so compelling and sincere. It will draw people into learning about what has been done to Phil’s family, and to so many others.
    I can’t imagine how hard it is to talk about such profound pain, but I hope there are many that can add their stories right now. Many new to the subject will not understand the complexity of what motivates people to not only disconnect, but to feel both powerless and righteous in doing so. I guess I’m looking for a succinct, pithy bit to pass on to the uninitiated in my own efforts to explain it to others.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Excellent point about the nuances and complexities of disconnection, and beautifully stated.

      • TexasBroad

        Thank you. I am just hoping enough stories surface now that the billboard is up and the media is looking that it becomes blatantly obvious to anyone, whether they understand the mechanisms or not, that the line “as a matter of personal choice” from the church is utter bull$.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Yes, I hope Phil is able to get a healthy collection of stories on his website soon. There are far too many to tell.

    • Kay

      I agree with you that many who do not have any frame of reference regarding an organization like this do not understand the complexity of it. I was talking to a friend about Scientology and disconnection last night, and he said “Oh waaaahhh……it’s people’s own fault for getting into such a stupid religion and their own fault for not getting out.” Sigh. Even after trying patiently to explain to him what the dynamics of most cults are, how well-meaning and intelligent most people are who are seduced by groups like this, and how much power and fear is exerted over them once they are in, he still did not get it. I finally threw up my hands in exasperation and told him that he could at least show a little empathy for those in pain, even if he didn’t agree with how they got there. SO frustrating !

      • Missionary Kid

        I believe that the key to the seduction of people into $cientology is that everything is based on an emotional appeal. No matter what a person’s intelligence is, emotions will override logic and knowledge. $cientology also offers certainty to people, and it probes by using things like the “personality test” to find what a person’s desires and fears are. Regardless of what they are, $cientology will tell a person that they can help them with it.

        • Kay

          I totally agree. I thought I explained the emotional and visceral dynamics of it in a logical way that would make sense, but to no avail. It made me realize that there are people who just will never understand this, nor be empathetic to it. I guess I forget that from time to time, because most of the people I hang out with are in the mental health or medical fields. They all seem to totally understand the dynamics of this without the need of a lot of explanation, and are usually not prone to being jugmental about it at all. (Plus, this is the only social media site I have ever been involved with, and everyone here gets it, that’s why they are here) He was so severely judgmental that I was kind of taken aback. I told him to watch Going Clear if he ever got the chance.

          • Missionary Kid

            What I found happening early on, was that I was so angry at Scientology that the words would just spill out. People get turned off by that. They cannot believe all of the information. We sound like conspiracy theorists.

            Because the mind-bending that takes place in Scientology is so complex, it’s hard for people to grasp. The best thing to do, I have found, is 2 just stick to one topic. Talking about an abuse is probably the best.

            When I was talking to the cop at the unveiling, I emphasized situation that Willie and Phil were in. Then I described how controlling $cientology could be, and that if you leave, they have a fair game policy where scientologists are authorized, even encouraged to make your life miserable. A lot of people stay in because of that fear, as well as the knowledge that they will lose all of their friends.

            I told her about the black PR that $cientology engauges in, citing the tactic of having an investigator go around a neighborhood asking if people know the target, and asking questions like “Have you heard anything about this person being a child molester.”

        • Tracy Schmitz

          this must be true, that emotions and emotional appeal rule over intelligence and logic and knowledge. because i would think that anyone of adult age and intelligence in our world today AUTOMATICALLY AND INHERENTLY knows that anything that promises 100% answers, 100% of the time, 100% to anything,100% to everyone and 100% always right… would know no such thing exists…

          • it’s always struck me that people don’t ‘believe in’ Scientology – they suspend disbelief until it works out as promised (which it never does). The purpose of the institution is to maintain that fragile state for as long as possible.

            A monolithic and absolute belief in absolutely everything in Scientology is indeed crazy – but that’s not what happens. Instead, people cherry-pick the aspects that appeal to them and ignore the rest. There is so much to choose from that almost anyone can find something which they can convince themselves is feaslble, if they are properly motivated.

            The everyday demands Scientology places on their time and money does not leave much cognitive capacity left over for accessing the doctrines and practices you are trying to follow – and if you display doubt, there is ‘ethics’ to keep you occupied.

            Intelligence and logic don’t come into it, because you don’t have time to think and are afraid to doubt.

            • Techie

              Actually, Once_Born, this selective belief system is baked into the Hubbard fruitcake. In one of the early things you study he talks about “para-Scientology” and “what is true is what is true for you”. Para-Scientology is defined as anything that is “not real to you” meaning you haven’t personally experienced it. So if you hear someone raving on about how great it was to run around a pole or something, and it seems a little weird you can just kind of shrug it off and say “para-Scientology”. Same if you are training as an auditor and the person you are auditing suddenly starts talking about being a caveman in a past life. Weird, but it is “true for him” so you’re not going to look shocked or surprised. Your hours of practicing stony-faced indifference in the face of insanity comes in handy. At any given moment the poor Scientologist may be whipsawed between gushing enthusiasm about his latest endorphin releasing experience and completely suppressed horror about someone who abandoned their family. All in the same conversation. They all hope it will all make sense one day, after OTXI or some space opera seminar. It never does, so on to the next step while going on hoping. Their motto should not be “We come back”, it should be “This time for sure!”

            • BlueHeronBay

              “…this selective belief system is baked into the Hubbard fruitcake.”
              I love that line. Well said. Thanks. Your posts have helped me understand a great deal.

            • One of my personal fascinations is the role which TRs play in this.

              There is good evidence that they induce dissociation. https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/the-compelling-effects-of-simply-staring-understanding-the-scientology-mindset-part-13/ There is a good chance that Scientologists who paractice them learn to induce a dissociative state almost at will.

              If this is so, when anything odd happens in the Org, they can become observers rather than participants in their own lives, looking upon insanity with that ‘stony stare’ and not letting it affect them.

              “Para-Scientology” just provides a rationalisation that will hold back doubts when they are not in the Org.

            • Techie

              Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Once_Born, though the Bunker has moved on this is a point that is important enough to discuss far from the madding crowd. In one of the Tech Films Hubbard explains the “system of glands” by showing a goofy scientist with a cartoon chart showing the pineal and other endocrine glands with their positions in the body. Then he has the goofy scientist throw away his pointing stick and says something like “but you don’t have to know all about that” and goes on to explain that the spirit or “thetan” is actually in charge and uses the glands and nervous system to control the body. It is too bad these tech films and their transcripts are so closely guarded by the church, there is a wealth of goofy Hubbardisms in them. But suffice it to say that Hubbard thought human emotions were just a tool for him to manipulate in others for his gain. Possibly he did not experience them the same way normal humans do, or maybe he was really good at suppressing them. Or maybe he was not so good, there are lots of reports of Hubbard flying into a rage at times. At any rate, the official Hubbard dictum is that emotions are just a human thing, easily controlled by the all-powerful Homo Novis. From Keeping Scientology Working: “Turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed steely glare and she’ll win and we’ll all win.” Funny story, I was in reception at Gold one day and Peter Schless told a story that he was called down to get on the phone because his father died. He said he was in full scale grief all the way down to get on the phone. Tears and sobs, the whole display. Then when he got there they told him it was someone else’s father who had died, and the grief immediately disappeared. We, good Sea Orgers all, laughed and agreed that this proved emotions were created by the being and not by circumstances. We all went on, sure that if something bad happened we could face it with aplomb, putting all in that thousand mile high long distance view. Someone dies, lots of people have died, you yourself have died thousands of times and will die thousands of times more. You may meet again in another life, mourn not overmuch in this one. And so on, blah blah blah while the little worm of true feeling twists deep in your gut all the same. I praise God that I escaped and was able to spend time with my loved ones that passed on a few years ago, to get to know them and their feelings and ways, not to just get called to reception to find out they were gone before I even knew they were ill. A tear unshed is still a tear.

            • I’m a never in from a country and a city where Scientology has a nominal presence. If it were not for the historical accident that created Saint Hill (around which more than two-thirds of British Scientologist are conentrated, according to the 2011 census) they would be virtually invisible. My direct experience is next to none.

              However, I’m fascinated by the question of why clever, capable, people follow clearly incoherent belief systems, sometimes with devotion and at great cost. Scientology is a perfect case study, because it is both extreme and long-lived.

              I am forced to approach the subject via concepts like dissociation, and I hope this perspective sometimes informs the debate.

              However, I’m endebted to conversations like this for insights into the lived experience of Scientology. It’s those insights that have added an unexpected emotional depth to an academic study.

              While I struggle to understand how social situations like this come about, I also learn about the terrible effect is has on real people and real lives. I’m glad I started commenting here, because I have learned a lot – and not just about Scientology.

              Hubbard undoubtedly suffered from serious personality disorders. The fascinating thing (especially for someone, like me, with a background in sociology) is how the organisation he created somehow still reproduces his behaviour, and still imposes his characteristic cruelty on others.

              The story you tell is exactly something Hubbard might have done deliberately. He would have told his followers that it was a lesson – but for him it would have been great fun.

              Finally, a personal fantasy of mine is to stumble accross a box of old ‘tech films’ in a charity shop, transfer them to video, and release the onto the unsuspecting world. I wonder what it is that makes them so bad that they have to be so closely guarded.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        If you’re looking for any reading material on the subject that helps make it easier to explain, I highly recommend this book:

        http://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827?ie=UTF8&keywords=combating%20cult%20mind%20control%20by%20steven%20hassan&qid=1460138632&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

        • Kay

          Thanks NOLAGirl !!

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Very welcome. Always happy to help. I know it’s hard to explain sometimes. Been there several times. 🙂

            • Kay

              Yes it is. I was actually getting angry at his complete indifference, I had to just stop before I said something I regretted. He knows that I work with cult survivors from a different cult, but I think he is no more sympathetic to them than he is to CoS. I think I was wasting my time, but on the other hand, you never know what someone will remember down the line when you think they did not listen at all to what you are saying.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Girlllll, I went through this with my husband. He was clueless and totally uninterested in anything more than the details I was passing along now and then. Then I gave him someone he could relate to: Marc Headley. He read his book and was stunned.

              He still isn’t involved directly but supports my involvement completely. You never know what story or what “thing” will connect with someone. Go easy on your friend/family member, you can’t make everyone outraged but you can be there to point them towards info when they do want to know more. ; )

            • Kay

              I agree… that’s why I finally just said “let’s just not talk about it anymore and agree to disagree.” It wasn’t worth ruining the relationship over. I was surprised that he was so antagonistic, however. Maybe it hit a nerve somewhere.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              You may very well have hit a nerve. In my opinion Scientology seems to have nothing but more negative press in its future so I’m sure he’ll hear/see more somewhere. Luckily he’ll have you to turn to when he reads some horror and has a “WTF?” moment. 😀

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        My brain just went to a late lunch and now I can’t even find my bookmark of the recent documentary about how fine tuned the manipulation of a population, culture, society has become – the people who are involved in it actually talked about what they do and how they do it. The documentary is available on YouTube. Can anyone help me out here?

        Those who are not educating themselves on the whole undue influence and covert coercion that is going on today have either already been badly hurt by it and too embarrassed and pissed off to let on, or they just haven’t yet had that vulnerable moment due to health or outside crisis and get taken in. In fact, most of us have been taken in by any number of manipulations if they live on earth in this century. I feel for this guy, even if he can’t for people like me, because that kind is gonna hurt the worst.

        I feel like plugging this site and resource again because from all the comments I am reading, it would help many.

        http://openmindsfoundation.org/

      • There are too many simple answers and not enough simple questions. Some people will never get it because they are more interested in ‘being right’ than understanding reality.

        • Kay

          SO true !

  • UhLasare

    Brian, I wish you and your daughter all the best – reconnection, and freedom from the brainwashing of the cult. Thank you for fighting for your daughter. She is worth it, and you are a good, brave, father. Thank you for doing the right thing, even when Goliath seems so big.

  • Simi Valley

    Just finished listening to Nora’s interview. Holy shit! Awesomeness! Can’t wait for Part 2!

    • Newiga

      The bleach story has me fuming and in tears…

      • Simi Valley

        Ditto … but at least she got out once and for all. It could have been a fab comedy routine in another setting, which is a testament to Nora’s innate sense of humor that not even the torture of the SO could eradicate.

  • Science Doc

    This is OT, but I’ve just noticed that Angry Gay Pope is the defendant in a Misdemenor criminal case brought against him by OSA. Details are on his web site. The immediate lesson is pretty obvious. If you are going to taunt Sea Org in places like PAC, have several witnesses with you.

    • Robert Eckert

      AGP is always in some kind of case like this. He pushes the envelope and sometimes rips it.

      • Science Doc

        This one isn’t pretty.

      • flyonthewall

        hey, you hear of this show called The Americans? KGB deep cover spies in America in the 80’s. On Amazon Prime, is an F/X show. Is actually pretty cool

        • Robert Eckert

          I’ve seen little bits of it

          • flyonthewall

            I’m a few episodes in and getting into it. The Reagan assassination attempt episode was interesting.

        • daisy

          Very good.

          • flyonthewall

            how far you into it?

            • daisy

              Watched it from the beginning . Sometimes FX has marathons, I will keep an eye out.

        • PJK

          It’s an amazing show. One of my favorites.

    • flyonthewall

      and don’t protest after drinking and also have a camera running

  • Bradley Greenwood

    Guess who getting a chance to redeem himself, after the LRH-penned sci-fi film debacle?
    Star Wars!
    Giddy-up, Forrest!

    • Jimmy3

      You know he won an Oscar in 2007 for The Last King of Scotland, right

      • Bradley Greenwood

        Yes… I meant “redeem” himself in the science fiction genre.

        • Jimmy3

          Oh. Fair enough.

          • Bradley Greenwood

            Your point was well-taken, though.

            • Jimmy3

              I never trust the first teaser trailer, but I have to agree with Nora.. I was immediately reminded of Battlefield Earth when he pops up in the trailer. Heh

            • Robert Eckert

              That Guy With the Glasses referred to him in the Battlefield Earth review as “Forrest Whatafuckamidoinghere”

            • Bradley Greenwood

              🙂

            • Yeah, but he doesn’t look quite as much like Della Reese with dreads.

    • His costume in the Rogue One trailer was SO Battlefield Earth.

    • Missionary Kid

      Remember that one of his first movies was Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

      • Bradley Greenwood

        Didn’t know that!

        • Missionary Kid

          He played the football player that got his car trashed, and, because he thought someone from a rival school did it, when he played against them, he destroyed their football team.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            one of the funniest parts in the movie is when spicoli (sean penn’s character) after he and his friend wreck whitaker’s character star football player car.. whitaker’s character younger brother whose friends with spicoli “my brother’s gonna shit, my brother’s gonna kill us!’ make up your mind dude, is he going to shit or is he going to kill us?” “first he’s gonna shit, then he’s gonna kill us!” lol!…

            • Missionary Kid

              The movie was well crafted, well written, and is now a classic. There’s a lot of actors that the film gave their career a real start.

    • Draco

      I’ve always been a Forrest fan.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Me too. Bird!

    • Sejanus

      Yeah his on screen career was just never the same I felt.
      Oscar nod not withstanding.

  • madame duran

    I should’ve done this since April 3rd but, y’know…LIFE. Anyway, here’s the countdown to Ron Miscavige Sr’s book release. Feel free to share.
    Link: http://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/1462280400000/america-new_york/dhms/FFFFFF3B5998000000FF0000/%22Ruthless%22_memoir_unleashed

  • Observer

    Dear Springsong:

    If seeing your father, who loves you and whom you said you love, at your front door causes you fear and distress because you know your church will punish you for it, then maybe it’s time to rethink your involvement with your church.

    If Scientology helps families as it claims, why is it tearing so many apart?

    • Jimmy3

      And your song isnt working. It’s still fucking snowing.

      • Observer

        Snow was in our forecast a few days ago but suddenly disappeared.

    • Flying High

      They just can’t look beyond the mental prison walls casted around them but those walls are indeed thinning more and more now everyday.

  • Dave Reams

    Sounds like Brian Sheen needs a billboard!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Most likely: No way. I offered up the idea of the Call Me Parade I posted earlier because I’d put some thought about the many suggestions or requests for a Clearwater billboard. The problem is that downtown Clearwater is in no way like Hollywood. Downtown, this county, Pinellas as well as neighboring counties, Pasco and Hillsoborough, have been thoroughly safepointed and deeply entrenched in spies, lies and OSAmobiles.

      In fact, it was only yesterday that I finally was able to breathe a sigh of relief that the billboard in L.A. went up intact. The advertising/marketing business is one ruthless, smouldering bastion of bastards. Haven’t seen it up close in recent years, but the price points tell me it has only and predictably gotten worse. When you are small budget ant crawling under the big feet of ravenous mongrels, don’t expect anything but worst outcome scenarios and you won’t be disappointed.

      One of my extended family members earned a seat at the big player’s table thanks to the likes of Bud Light’s Spud Mackenzie and R J Reynold’s Joe Camel among other heavy hitter clients. Never mind that it was aimed at and succeeded hooking a young generation on booze and nicotine. I thought of it because I learned just last year he and his partner are referred to as St Louis’ own Mad Men in articles about them in the St Louis Post Despatch. I always thought the show was modeled after them.

      All that booze and constant sucking on the smokes, even at work. Yep. The cut throat, nervy buzzing like a hive, yep. Moved headquarters to the bigger cities, nope. They were the first to heavily outsource; it was way too expensive back then, but they were reckless with finances. If it wasn’t for my dad pitch hitting on the finance sidelines, they never would have made it. He grumbled all the time about their $500 bottles of wine at long lunches like they were nothing. Oh, and the older white guys who had the heart attacks, nope. It was these two – one had second heart attack while still in his 40’s. I only met his partner once for more than a short minute – and afterwards referred to their company as The Zoo. Scary gorilla that one. His reputation was earned.

      Someday I would really, really love to hear the real story about why Lamar went ahead and installed the billboard because there’s a story there and I’ll bet it’s a Bunker worthy story. Damn, I had a point! I don’t see the possibility of any major billboard company in the Clearwater area conceding to a Call Me Billboard. The possibilities are even slimmer to none here. But who doesn’t love a parade? Scientology would do its best to block any permits, but people are still free to drive their car down the street. I’m sure there are other ideas, but I wanted to explain why I’m not confident about the same billboard idea here.

      I’m betting disconnected families out there are pretty creative 🙂

      http://i.imgur.com/Jy7czaP.jpg?3

      • Kay

        Sounds good to me !

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I’d love to have that nice sign on my car and roll through downtown slowly, even park awhile. Wonder what would happen? When those signs area available with magnets, I would buy one or two. Of course I would watch my car if parked, hah! and take pics.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          You might need to hire an intern, maybe from one of the Clearwater comm. college campuses, to follow you and then watch your car when you parked. I’m not sure if they have courses on spying and stalking, but hey, maybe?! hah

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Sounds OK, but just need a sign to see what happens first. I know how to spy, haha!

      • Dave Reams

        How about a remote control blimp then emblazoned with a message or towing a banner?
        http://www.eblimp.com/eblimp/Blimp_Packages.html

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I like those! Awful noisy tho – but I like that they are lit up and of course, mini sized and light up.

          • Dave Reams

            If the blimp were just using minimal power to maintain a relatively fixed position then perhaps it would not be so noisy?

            I’ve got a better idea! Go fly a kite!
            http://www.my-best-kite.com/how-to-make-a-kite.html

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              hah – see – creativity is bloomin’

      • Juicer77

        Plus – a second billboard would never get the media attention the first one did, and the Co$ will try (and fail) harder to steer any Disconnecteds away from it.

  • gtsix

    Just finished Nora’s vid. Very interesting. Many thoughts… much new info on her as a person and the ghey, which is intriguing to me, the trans issue at 20min, the “hate tomboy” bit, the “I wish I could quit you” reference and scientology and “understanding gender fluidity”. Very interesting.

    Off to ponder for a bit.

    Looking forward to part 2.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    O/T. A word of warning to ex’s and critics. When selling a house or something… Seller Beware! Not saying much else at this time, but learning a lot. Miss y’all.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Hm.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Yes, this guy caught me good. But I found him out after I found a buyer myself.

    • Kay

      As Free Minds, Free Hearts said, hmmmmmmmm

    • TexasBroad

      Uh Oh Dee. That doesn’t sound good. Miss you too. Hope everything is okay, or will be soon if it isn’t.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I’ve got my fingers crossed on this new one starting now, if it’s for real it’s good.

        • TexasBroad

          I know you’ll be cautious and protect yourself. Sorry you have to worry about such things.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Not worried about self except for income. They would love me to get nothing for the house, which provides future for me. Most of my neighbors are armed and very alert.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Um, your neighbors – did L Wrong walk to the front door with his hands up? heh heh

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Hahaha. Yes he did!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Oh no. Email if you’d like.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Thanks a lot Hole, New game just started. More later, we’ll see soon enough…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          OKay, public email is moxiebaymusic AT gmail DOT com

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Thank you!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I know Some of the names that used to be in and also, never hurts to ask around plus I can do some searching. There’s a new surge now so there’s a possibility more or getting back in the game.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              I already checked with the owner of the company and he’s familiar with scn. when I was ready to fire the agent. I asked the agent if he was and no. Somebody either sent him or got to him, or he’s just corrupt or a bullshitter. Whatever, I was fooled.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      We were renting a house a while back that was up for sale. We were on the outs with Scientology but weren’t really thinking about whether we’d be watched or not.

      As part of our rent deal we would let realtors come through when needed. One day a realtor showed up with a client. They started wandering through the house but split up with the client going straight out to the back yard. Willie mentioned that the realtor looked familiar but couldn’t place her.

      I decided to go outside and see if the guy had any questions. As I went through the back door the client came out from behind the little alcove at a brisk walk and headed back into the house. He got with the realtor, they said thank you and left. It was all a bit strange.

      After they’d gone I went out back to see if anything might be missing. When I rounded into the alcove at the back I noticed the phone box open and all the wires hanging out. Never sure these types of things are Scientology related, but at that point we decided it was time to move.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I had a strange couple came with their realtor at night to see the house. They took pictures all over. My gut was not at ease. She wanted to make an offer right then and I said no. I just felt it was strange and they would really low ball me to bring me down, so refused to even hear it. Never heard from again.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This area is crawling knee deep in scientologists who are realtors, wanna be realtors, pretending to be realtors, realtor’s go fer’s, former realtors, and more. I was interested in finding one a while back but couldn’t get an answer if anyone knew one in this county who wasn’t a sci or hadn’t been safepointed. Mr Hole and I would move in a heartbeat if we could. You were wise to go when you could.

      • Sejanus

        Ahhhh so very ethical.
        Evil little buggers likely congratulated theselves for being good little spymasters.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Wherever there’s fast easy money, 100% guarantee the place will be heavily invested with scientologists who, like garden variety junkies, are always desperate for fast easy money to get to their next fix – fast.

          The real estate “boom” in this county in Florida was craaaaaaaaazy, just crazy. There are still pockets of burbs filled with foreclosures or nuisance vacant properties. It sucks. Every other scientologist was doing some funky real estate wheelin’ and dealin’ at one time.

  • cdub

    Yeah OK Scientology is going through a rough spell. But except for beating the IRS way back and reeling in a bunch of whales who no doubt are busy looking for lost treasures they buried in fictional past lives, when hasn’t it been rough for them? A few brave thetans, soldiers of light, bringing advanced knowledge to a degenerate Earth which ignores them, mostly, or calls them out for their strange behavior. Yes it’s tough. Good for you, OSA. Keep it up, staff, Carry on, dilettante public. Just think, in five or fifteen years you’ll be an operating thetan with all those nifty powers, seeing through walls, postulating money, sex, lording over all those meat body wogs. Who treated you so badly. Who didn’t believe you. Who doubted. Who worried about you. Who you disconnected from.

  • Kat

    Stupid questions: Do the number of views a YouTube video gets impact income (I assume it does) and does the “view” register if I watch the video from this website or should I open in the YouTube site?

    • UhLasare

      The answer to the first part of your question is yes. I don’t know the answer to the second part, and I’d like to.

      • SucculentDuck

        views of properly embedded YouTube videos like this, and watched on this site, should count toward the total

        eti: properly & should

        • Kat

          Thanks!

      • ‘Embedding’ a YouTube video in a website is a matter of inserting some code, which gives (among other things) the URL of the video. There is no practical difference between viewing a video in a website, and going to the YouTube site – you are accessing the same file, on the same server in both cases.

        Consequently, the ‘views’ count will increment whether you watch a YouTube video that is inserted in a comment here, inserted into a website or on the parent site.

        Edit: it’s never that simple, is it? There are some exceptions http://boostlikes.com/blog/2014/08/youtube-video-views-embeds-count

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      If you open the video in YouTube you have the possibility to upvote it as well, which is a nice gesture.

      • Kat

        Oh yeah, good point, thanks Johnny.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Open from YouTube if you want to register a view on their YouTube video.

      • Kat

        Thanks THDNE!

    • madame duran

      If you go to your (or anyone else’s) YouTube account’s “History” page, you’ll see all the YouTube videos you or they have ever watched, regardless of whether you watched them through an off-site link or directly via YouTube (note: access the History page by first logging in then clicking on the three horizontal bars at the top left corner of your screen, next to the YouTube logo. A side menu should appear. One can choose to clear their history and start fresh). A video counts as a “view” even if you’ve only watched a portion of it instead of the whole thing completely.

  • Tracy Schmitz

    HI EVERYONE! off topic, but it amazes me and shocks me when i go to youtube (and my brother does as well) and we see anonymous posters posting not only defense of scientology, but defense of the celebs that are the public face of it.. i just read a youtube response that actually said that celeb’s “personal lives” are NONE of ours or anyone’s business and that we should all just “live and let live” them? REALLY? REALLY?! yeah, live and let live is great, a great motto to live by, that is UNLESS your life and how you live and are involved in and do are/ is HURTING AND ABUSING AND EFFECTING OTHERS! DUH AND DOUBLE DUH!….how in the world can anyone not get this?… “so and so is a member of the KKK but hey, live and let live! it’s none of my business!’ who cares what it’s about and does to people!?! REALLY?!.. even worse when so and so is a famous person using their fame to entice others to join or stay in such a evil organization!!!

    • Sejanus

      People who won’t get past the live and let live mantra, just do not understand, or are too lazy to get involved.
      It is an easy out.
      Besides, they would have to learnn the issues and form real opinions.
      Those two things scare most folks.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        thanks for replying sejanus: the following is back and forth between my brother’s recent posts to this person followed by their profane response and my brother’s latest response to this… tell me what you think! thanks in advance for reading all of this below!:

        this person: There seems to be no doubt Scientology is one seriously flawed organization run by equally flawed and fucked up individuals. Cruise seems to have bought into every aspect of this organization – including what seems to be a heart-felt and almost child-like eagerness to salute a picture of a con-artist extraordinaire – LRH lolololol So fucking what – it’s his life. If people are being mistreated – and apparently they are – go to the police and investigate. Until then – live and let live. Tom Cruise’s personal life is none of my fucking business.

        my brother’s response to this: hmm, sorry but if ANYONE is the public face of something (and using his fame and money to entice others to join or stay in!) that is and has hurt countless others and stands around and doesn’t know anything like that is going on and has been going on for decades since and before his involvement in it (really?)..

        . or he has “heard” but refuses to look, listen or do anything about it or doesn’t believe in the countless stories basically calling them ALL, EVERYONE liars, he DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT GET A FREE PASS FROM SOCIETY! .

        .meanwhile at the same time he has been documented as having and continuing to be ROYALLY BUTT KISSED by his “religion”.. a religion of all things! sorry this is nor a good moral decent person! he is a silent partner in a evil “thing” abusive money scam and it’s called ” GUILT BY ASSOCIATION”!…

        IT SHOULD BE YOURS AND EVERYONE’S business! what’s next “oh, so and so is a member of the KKK (or ANY organization) that hurts so many others, but oh well, that’s his business!”

        what’s next “hey, so and so is a wife abuser and adulterer, but i still love his work?”” so and so shot a few people but i still love his music and i support him, because hey he didn’t try to shoot me or anyone i know!?!”

        live and let live is fine when it DOESN’T HURT and EFFECT OTHERS!…

        this person’s response to my brother: Go fuck yourself, pal. Who are you to tell me what I ‘should’ do with anything? I believe in personal accountability – period. I am responsible for what I do and how I live MY life. I am not a victim. If you want to live the life of a victim – that’s your business. So you can take your sanctimonious portable soap-box and shove it up your arrogant pious ass.

        Comparing Scientology to the KKfuckingK is a joke. Being brow-beaten by a bunch twerps is slightly different than rape, murder, bombing, shooting, beating and lynching.

        The truth is – I see Scientology the way I see the Westboro Baptist Church.

        Lost people who will believe and do some seriously sick shit to get the approval of some demented asshole like Fred Phelps or a mental defective like this clown Miscavige.

        Kids are an entirely different story. If kids are being mistreated in any way – at any level – you are justified in throttling the fuck out of me. Other than that – fuck off and good bye.

        my brother’s latest response to this person: hmm, i hope you have this same “passion and compassion” when anyone you know (a adult) that you love and care for gets involved in scientology or any other destructive mind controlling abusive (physical, mental, financial) organization…..

        you simply do not know it would seem enough about scientology to truly know how destructive and insidious they are….there is WAAAAY more then as you write “being brow-beaten by a bunch twerps” going on! that right there says how much meaning how little you know of scientology and the subject…

        and because one is a adult more or less “oh well, that’s their own fault?”… never mind standing against those who perpetuate the evilness! yes, instead, blame the victim or blame the person by calling them to stop being a victim….

        your empathy and understanding is amazing..

        how do you defend your “live and let live” policy in regards to those who perpetuate such wrong on people?…we should just let them “live and let live”…. do people, yes even adults NOT HAVE THE RIGHT? to do anything to stop them? or should we let them live and let live” and exists because it’a a simple as “don’t get involved” EVERYONE and for those of you who do” oh well, your deserve it”….

        your right personal accountability should be taken into account, that STILL DOES NOT give evil the excuse to exist and remain… if it wasn’t for the evil being around, perhaps then NO ONE could get involved in the first place yes?..

        in regards to cruise, i stand by my statement.. regardless if everyone every adult was “stupid enough” or had no personal accountability how does that excuse cruise for being involved in a bad evil organization?….he gets a free pass, but no one else does?.

        • Frodis73

          Your brother needs to tell this guy that plenty of kids are being hurt, used for slave labor, etc

          • sashiebgood

            hi Frodis, I was thinking of you today, I just started listening to a book called “Fellside” by MR Carey (I’m a huge audible. com person) and it’s pretty good so far and I thought it might be up your alley. MR Carey’s last book was The Girl with all The Gifts – really good and interesting zombie story. This one takes place in a women’s prison and is sort of a ghost story/mystery. Highly recommend The Girl w all the Gifts too. 💜

        • sashiebgood

          this is so reminiscent of that video Chris Shelton did with that supposedly non-scientologist talking about how stupid it was for Anonymous to be protesting “religious freedom.” the “other person” is quick to denigrate Cruise for being under the spell of LRH/DM but sounds very much like a Scientologist with the whole “I’m responsible for my own life, fuck anyone else” response. I wonder, has there been a backlash against Cruise in certain parts of Scn? or are they simply trying to confuse us with their “OT powers”?

        • Sejanus

          So this reply from the knucklehead to your brother is again…the easy out.
          They only know a smidgeon of the story and figure since it does not affect them, whoop-dee-doo. Truly sad.
          His live and let live notion seems fine except he calls your brother names …what happened to live and let live? lol Since this guy seems to actually take exception to his rule if children are being abused…he needs to delve a touch deeper into what $cientology does to kids!

          Live and let live comes with an unspoken caveat.
          “Live and let live if there is truly no harm, but when harm is discovered it must be stopped because it does not permit all those abused victims to live as they wish.”

          Your brother was pretty good in his expressing of himself.
          I would classify the naysayer as being woefully uninformed and typically one to resort to a

          A brief aside…do you watch The Walking Dead?
          There is a conflict between two characters about “All life is sacred”
          On the surface a simple enough mantra, however is the life of a person who is known to kill over and over still to be protected in that world? If a murderer goes free and kills again, through those actions of them taking life it is due to following ‘All life is sacred’.

          Bottom line there has to come a tipping point when all life is sacred or live and let live calls for more than a passing glance without scrutiny.

          *NOTE* This post is neither in support nor opposition to the death penalty. It is referencing a work of fiction and simply raises the question of how to resolve conflicts arising from superficial judgement calls with overly simplistic ‘rules’.
          Now carry on and internet away!.. 🙂

          • Tracy Schmitz

            his last posts to my brother have been short filed with more profanity and the sign off “go fuck yourself” he’ll even post “once again for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th time go fuck yourself pal”
            … posts that my brother is either a child not a man OR that he’s a pompous jerk? daring to tell anyone how to live their life and when giving information on scientology, including the various books,documentaries and information out there posts that my brother is NOT advising him or anyone but is being a self absorbed pompous know it all jerk?! HUH?! this guy must be the EPITOME OF someone who is pathologically so stubborn and self absorbed that ANYONE dare question his statements, posts and puts a mirror up to him.. “i know i’m right, even if i don’t know as much as you (my brother) and even if i’m wrong, you sure as hell better not tell me i’m wrong!”… he even posted how he wanted to if he could find a way to “block my brother’s post on youtube?” (i guess when my brother posts a reply to him he gets a email?)… my brother posted back if ANYONE should be blocking anyone it’s him, since he’s not the one using profanity and belittling anyone!”

            oh well, what can you do right?

            • Sejanus

              Some people just have the need to be angry all the time.
              It gives them a state of false euphoria along with a power complex.
              They take everything beyond to extremes and flip out over the most childish or insignificant things.
              Oh and God forbid you have knowledge they do not possess because that is when things get really ugly.
              Captain Swears-A-Lot likely cannot be reasoned with as hiw world has no place for informationn he does not possess or discover.
              Migod…he is like the Crimson Cyst was!

    • ze moo

      Any cleb who supported the clampire is fair game. They took a position, now they have to reap the whirlwind.

  • Joe

    Oh, Nora. The rage I feel at Scientology when I hear your story can only be summed up below. I’m so glad you’re out and I really enjoy hearing your story. I literally want to head butt all those people you talked about.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I don’t think the church is going to stop disconnection …it is how they keep their members . If they stopped it …then they would not be scientologiy anymore . Kinda like the Catholics about celibacy and female priests . They will NEVER give up on those two things ..cuz otherwise , they would be Protestants

    the only way disconnection will stop …is if people stop disconnecting . Sadly ..it is not going to come from DM

    • SciWatcher

      “cuz otherwise, they would be Protestants”

      Best laugh I’ve had today.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I found something that made me smile on an old Bunker story from June, 2013. The blog post that day was about Jon Atack declaring David Miscavige an SP but what caught my eye was a comment from our Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack:

    “John, that is a fascinating document. I am sure it is true on all points. It deserves to be made into a billboard right across from AOLA.”

    Anti-Scientology billboards and philboards are always topical 🙂

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/29/when-jon-atack-declared-david-miscavige-a-suppressive-person/#comment-946245252

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      That Korgo was way ahead of his time.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s been bandied about for many years. But I thought when I saw your flyers, and the message, the everything else being the exact right time and place with a message that the general public and media Would be interested in, even if not interested about Scientology ..and Your strong conviction to take this all the way to a home run, well BAM – that’s all folks!

        http://i.imgur.com/A3vaLPe.jpg

  • lkjl asdc

    For those who were in & disconnected: what’s the mindset? were you torn like his daughter seems to be and did it because you were forced to, or did you see those you disconnected from as enemies? Did you feel sorry for them, did you miss them?? This is so mind-boggling to me, and i really have trouble understanding it.

    • Juicer77

      All of the above. Others can probably answer this better (I’m a never-in) but it seems to be a mash-up of factors. The thought control is so complete that the person believes they are jeopardizing their immortality and the future of every one they know if they stray from the ultimate goal of clearing the planet. If anyone, including parents or children, get in the way of that, they will cut off “for their own good.” There may be sorrow, or resolution, or anger, or fear, or suppression of any emotion, or a combination of all these. Depends on the individual, I suppose.

      • Also, people will do extraordinary things in repsonse to percieved authority. They are typically deeply conflicted, but still obedient.

        Social isolation (i.e. the ‘Scietology bubble’) can only make this effect more potent.

        https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-pt-3-obedience-to-authority/

        • Juicer77

          Thanks, I was looking on your site for the right link!

      • Liberated

        Yes, all those reasons are accurate, that’s really what they think. If you ask a question (critical thinking) or express a doubt, watch out! If the tech says 2+2=5 then it is. Shut-up and conform. I’m surprised to hear you were never in, you seem to have the wisdom that only experience can give.

        • Juicer77

          Well, my blushes! I can only say that there are some very, very good teachers here who have shared their own experiences.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Mrs. tells me that Leah Remini will be on Dr. Oz today at 1 pm L.A. time. I don’t know what the topic will be, maybe cults, family, billboards??

    anyway, dvr is all set up.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I’m late catching up on the David Jolly story. I wasn’t worried when I’d heard he and bimbo in tow, or as she likes to call herself, Attorney General Pam Bondi, showed up sniffing some of Miscavige’s whale fumes at Flag. For one thing, he’s a lobbyist at heart and for the other, he already had a plain as day history of promising anything to anybody for any level of cash or power contributions. The moment he deposited, he begins to do the bidding of whoever is up there on the next highest rung on the ladder, to hell with promises made below. Sad to say, voters memory very short, so he and every other politico gets by with it. Not news.

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160406/10003234120/fl-senate-candidate-tries-to-edit-scientology-links-wikipedia-page-streisanding-those-links-everywhere.shtml

    • beauty for ashes

      One of the comments: Florida Man starts Edit War, claiming “Xenu Vult”.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Vult?

        • Robert Eckert

          “Deus Vult” is “God wills it” in Latin, a chant that Pope Urban II got started in a big crowd when he called for the First Crusade.

        • beauty for ashes

          No idea Hole, just cracked me up. Vault? Volt?

  • Draco

    Great interview by Nora; can’t wait for part 2.

  • Phil Jones and Sunny wrote some important facts on Disconnection and I wanted to supplement it.
    For the last 30 years cherch *Ethics Officers* (internal cops) have summoned people to the ETHICS office to
    instruct an authoritative order of Disconnection.
    It is Cherch personnel, mostly in uniform laying it on the line.
    Many times the order has come down from OSA INT ((Office of Special Affairs) and there is
    NO POWER OF CHOICE.
    It is complete command and control.
    Increasing and escalating penalties rush into place on non-compliance.
    *Non Compliance* is a Committee of Evidence *Crime* !
    In spite of 30 years of evidence and savage Ethics Officers using rank and dominance to enforce
    DISCONNECTION, Scientology Inc had former Spokesman go on National TV (CNN) to say this:
    (It drew gasps of incredulous breaths from those who watched this )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krky3vx61gM

    • ze moo

      Gee, $cientologies pr guru lied?? What is the world coming to? Bite me Tommy Davis…The ‘voluntary’ nature of ‘disconnection’ has been disproved too many times to be uttered, yet the clams still spout it.

      Lying liars who lie doesn’t begin to label it.

    • jazzlover

      As far as I’m concerned, this is the guy that needs to be lined up against the wall right alongside the mindless miscavige on Judgment Day. He just makes my skin crawl.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      I remember in my early days (70’s) in scn. A girl member I liked very much came running over crying, to my apartment. She was devastated, telling me she had a …one of those fuzzy emeter lies (oh rock slam) and had been kicked out and she shouldn’t even be talking to me. I felt so sorry for her. I will never forget that or her. I believe Rita was her name or close.

      • Dice

        That is so cruel to do to any person and I will stick with the explanation that those R/S are simply a loose connection on a faulty meter!!! ffs 🙁

        • PerpetualOutflow

          If that’s a plausible explanation, why on earth wouldn’t they put the person on a second meter to double check the phenomenon before taking such drastic action against a member?

          • Possibly because they would only have to take the trouble to make it happen again, if this is someone they want rid of (because they have run out of money, outsiders are causing trouble about their membership, they are asking too many questions and provoking doubts in others…).

            I doubt meter ‘reads’ like that happen to obedient Scientologists who are good payers very often.

          • Dice

            There are “reports” from e-meter repairmen, that they did warn about this but was ignored by the chearch maybe techie can comment on this. And there is websites describing this.
            I remember one thing from HGC (Hubbard Guidance Center) basically a hall with auditor rooms – where Auditors was so excited about finding a Rock-slammer in some poor guy/female. They would brag about this endlessly. This was back in 1980ties. Disgusting!

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          I wouldn’t doubt it now. that girl was scared sh*tless like she met the devil. Yes, she did, only we didn’t know it. I was scared and week not knowing how to help her.
          Regret OSA, ever have it?

          • Juicer77

            Hindsight is 20/20. Hard not to kick oneself later on, though. ((hugs))

      • Couch_Incident

        If it’s any consolation, I bet Rita now looks back on that as one of the best things that ever happened to her (assuming she didn’t leave family behind, of course).

        • Dice

          good to know – i am furious about this 🙂

  • Sid (Phil Jones)

    Billboard Update:

    We have just secured a second month with the billboard and are well into having our third month covered. The current target amount on the campaign of $17.5k will cover the third month plus a bit. I’m working to secure the billboard through to the end of August. For that we need to increase our target amount to $24,000. That is nearly $10,000 from where we are but since these billboards get booked up pretty fast I’d like to book out and pay for as long as we can. I’ve secured it up to next Friday (April 15th) so whatever we get to at that point money wise I’ll contract and pay for however many months we can with the billboard company.

    Thanks to everyone so far for your support on this. We’ll keep this billboard up for as long as we can.

    • gtsix

      https://www.gofundme.com/reconnectingfamily

      Next payday can’t come soon enough.

      And this made me sad/happy/sad: (f5)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Damn it to hell

      • Illinoisian

        Sad. My God, this process of breaking down disconnection just needs to happen . . . faster.

        • gtsix

          Yep, I meant “happy” in the sense of: this billboard and campaign is there to show the real people being affected by disconnection. ALL of them.

      • Juicer77

        🙁

      • Kim O’Brien

        aw man . Claire’s kids are so beautiful . I hope this story has a reunion at the end

      • Robert Eckert

        Marc’s sister is still in too.

        • gtsix

          Still in, but Stephanie left the SO at least.

          Stephanie: CALL YOUR DAD. HE MISSES YOU. AND SO DOES YOUR BROTHER.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Great Phil. Do you have a way to make magnet signs for cars? I would buy a couple and sure others in the right area’s would too.

      Edit: Donation done again! Small but effective and satisfying that I can help. Thank you Phil

      • Sid (Phil Jones)

        Spike did some bumper stickers and t-shirts up. Also, there is artwork on the StopScientologyDisconnection website you might be able to use.

        The links are here:
        http://www.zazzle.com/stop+scientology+disconnection+gifts
        http://stopscientologydisconnection.com/?page_id=615

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Just ordered two bumper ones. Thanks so much for the link, Phil.

      • Juicer77

        Your local sign company can take the artwork and make magnetic signs fairly cheaply. Might even be cheaper to order online.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          I may do that with the bumper stickers in the mail from Zazzle, thanks, good idea, so as to have on the sides of car, more noticed.

          • Juicer77

            I had a couple of those magnetics a while ago. They were cool but one good rain storm made them peel off mid-trip and I never found them… Plus they are easy to take off manually. You might do better with something you could place in your rear window and remove as needed.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Good idea, thank you Juice

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’d suggest using one of those posters under the stopscientologydisconnection website link Phil gave you. Artoo45 did all the sizing and formatting as a pro – this way you won’t have something fuzzy. Most places that create these kinds of advertisement merchandise will tell you the perimeters, what size you need the jpg to be. Most of them need large (over 1800 pixels) to make a decent product. Here’s just one place that makes them – they’re cheaper than I thought!

        http://www.813signs.com/us/magnetics.html

        Here’s that link again to all the pdf and jpg options:

        http://stopscientologydisconnection.com/?page_id=615

        edit to add: Just checked Amazon for custom car magnets. There are others that have good prices and free shipping too. You can usually order by the pair, looks like around $28 average for two 12 x 24’s. Didn’t look up larger magnet prices

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I’ll keep tweeting the link as much as I can Phil. However long it’s up, it has made an incredible impact. 👍

  • Juicer77

    Good on GoFundMe for honoring the commitment made by those supporting the Fauteaux family.
    Plus, this happened today. Horsie selfie (yes, there were grapes involved). (f5)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Yay on the GoFundMe. and WTH? on the horse selfie

      • Juicer77

        7 more miles on the Cotswold Way today. When we stopped for lunch these nice horsies had scoped out the right place to pose for photos and get carrots, apples, grapes etc.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It’s like you’re in another country, Juicer! All my vacations are now vicarious. Thank you for the pictures and the tourist guide text to go with them. Oooh, I just Google Imaged Cotswold Way. Ahhhhhhh Ooooooh Lucky duck!

          • Juicer77

            Lovin’ every minute! Very appreciative of the chance to do this…

            • daisy

              I am so glad for you that you are enjoying this experience. Sometimes change can be hard, but you seemed to have embraced it . I hope hubby is the same. I love your country jaunts and pictures.

            • Juicer77

              Yes, he is loving it, too. Glad you enjoy them.

          • Juicer77

            Flowers, too! (f5)

            • Baby

              OMG I am so jealous.. Juice it looks glorious.. what a great day you had.. It’s already getting too hot for me in Florida..

            • Juicer77

              I’ll wave my arms really hard and try to send you some cooler air!

            • Baby

              I can just see you riding your horse and waving you arms..hahahaha xo

            • Juicer77

              Hugs and kisses, back atcha!

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              It’s just perfect from me, north of you. Hey Baby missed ya!

            • Baby

              Oh Mama I miss you too.. company and dental work.. ( Yay company.. Boo Dental work)

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              You know it!

            • aquaclara

              There.is.to.be.no.complaining.about.heat. we.are.expecting.snow.

              But on the good news side of things, my tulips just came up, and the daffodils are holding up well.

            • Baby

              I promise.. Or at least until you guys catch up with us..

              WAit just a minute.. There will be NO talkin bout daffodils and tulips pokin up through the earth..or, or…

              snow during Christmas holiday and .. leaves during fall.. Then I would call that an even deal..xoxo

            • Observer

              I’ll take snow over Florida heat any day!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I could use that wall!

        • aquaclara

          gorgeous!!!!

    • jazzlover

      Please tell us you’re not experiencing some sort of “Jenna envy” 😉

      • Juicer77

        LOL
        and NO.

        • jazzlover

          Yeah, I didn’t think so. LOL. Be prepared for a phone call or two from Bodhi, though.

          • Juicer77

            Not with a 47 foot pole.

            • jazzlover

              In his freakin’ dreams 😉

      • Baby

        OMG hahahhahaha jazz

        • jazzlover

          😉

    • Qbird

      love this photo JJ

      • Juicer77

        JJ – XD
        Thanks!

        • Qbird

          yah! Just Juicer, you see.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Don’t sneeze!

      • gtsix

        Hey, spring is supposedly coming. Brave blogger and I been talking about some sangria.on a patio somewhere. You in?

        • Juicer77

          DID SOMEONE SAY SANGRIA!?!

          • gtsix

            It has already been agreed we would email you pics. 😉

            • Juicer77

              Oh, okay…. grumble grumble. 😉

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              But not from the tampon cam.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Yeah, April wanted to make sure we got enough March in, it seems…I’m in, for sure. Just let me know where to be and when!

    • Baby

      Beautiful Juice.. I can just tell.. just a peek of you made me smile.. xo love baby

    • Omg love

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Did Brian go to the wedding was DM there?

    • Juicer77

      Did you hit the bar before you wrote this comment? 😉 Yes, Brian was at the wedding. No, DM was not there, I’m sure. Not enough $$ to buy his attendance, knowwhatImean?

      • jazzlover

        LOL. It appeared to me that MEP was having some autocorrect problems. I still think the guy who invented that needs to be thrown in the RPF permanently 😉

        • Juicer77

          I argue…
          dagnabit!!

          • jazzlover

            You on a roll today. Which one? That is the question 😉

            • gtsix

              Gotta be a poppy roll.

            • jazzlover

              *snort*

            • Juicer77

              I’ll have you know I had a nearly carb-free day! Homemade lasagna with zucchini “noodles” instead of pasta. Those two glasses of mulled red wine didn’t hurt either. 😉

            • gtsix

              Well, I had a fab lunch: bruschetta con tomate, deep friend risotto and mozzarella balls and salt cod croquettes. And 2 beers.

              Carbs rule!

            • Juicer77

              I hate you.
              😉

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh The C Word. Make it stop

              Now I have to go workout. I can’t even Think about bad carbs and they whack me.

              https://www.facebook.com/612318838794791/videos/vb.612318838794791/1325569637469704/?type=2&theater

            • Baby

              My twin volunteered at my mom’s Senior Citizens exercise group as an instructor Hole…
              ( 30 years ago)

              5 minutes in she said.. ” Clap your hands..” and an older woman clapped her hands and broke both wrists..( No shit) ..

              Jude spent the next 2 months taking care of the woman in my mom’s mobile home park..( haha for sister..not poor woman..)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              bwahahahaha. Sounds like me

            • Baby

              We teased her about that for years.. and she would say.. ” Mom what ever you do ” DON’T CLAP..”

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Mmmmm, we had crawfish and goat cheese crepes. I could have eaten them all day. 😀

            • gtsix

              I wish we could get fresh crawfish up here. That sounds lovely.

              Waiting patiently for crab season.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              They’re a lot better in the autumn season. Perhaps we can email in the Fall and I can get some (will have to be out of the shell) shipped to you. We have companies that freeze, pack and ship them. We’ll talk then. ; )

            • ReallyMGM

              I am having a “cheat day.” Fried catfish, coleslaw, fries, hush puppies.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Sounds yummy. 🙂

            • ReallyMGM

              Yours does too! I’ll be back to healthy tommorrow but I hadn’t had this in ages.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Must be Friday. In the 1950’s. Catholic parish parking lot. Got an extra seat at the table?

            • ReallyMGM

              Nah, just time for some greasy Southern food. I always have an extra spot for company. 🙂

            • Vaquera

              Sounds delish. I had a protein bar and a banana….but about to throw a ribeye on the grill. Yes, it snowed here yesterday and it’s supposed to snow on Monday, but darn it all I hate to clean the kitchen, so grilling in a shearling coat it is. Oh, and a bottle of Zin. Can’t forget the Zin.

              Eta: I went outside 15 minutes ago to preheat the grill. Just went back out to throw the slab on the fire…and it’s freaking snowing! #NotInTexasAnymore

            • Juicer77

              Old vine zin…mmmm 🙂

        • Robert Eckert

          The inventor of autocorrect dyed list Someday. The funfair will be nix wake.

          • jazzlover

            LOL. That’s some serious died in the whale autocorking!

          • MarcabExpat

            Nix absolutably fabulousness.

  • skiesareblue

    Visitors, Guests, Lurkers, Under the Radars, Everyone – you can all help bring attention to this important cause by clicking the Recommended Heart at the top of the Discussion.

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Scientology SP tech at work find someone who really isn’t an emeny and do your best to turn them into one! Then act like they were always.

  • Baby

    Six just posted this.. I continue to be Outraged.. Sadness overcomes me. And then RAGE..f5
    EDIT: The words created by me.. NOT Claire.. Just wanted to make it clear to OSA.. I HATE SCIENTOLOGY.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    “Scientology understands Gender Fluidity.”

    This is Scientology lying by omission.

    They are using an internal unspoken definition for “Gender Fluidity” which essentially means “Any deviation from the physically evident body type sexuality is aberrated and insane and is not allowed in Scientology. We understand the attraction to the same sex or both same sex and opposite sex as a form of insanity and will diligently try to help you get rid of it or will punish and demean you if you cannot. When Scientology controls the world we will destroy ‘gender fluid’ people quietly and without sorrow.”

    But while believing their own definition and the correctness of their actions, they DEPEND on you, the public, to substitute a normal societal definition that is becoming more accepted. Something like “There is a broad spectrum of gender identity and sexual behavior and love in people. And that is OK.”

    So they lie by not explicitly saying what their ‘Understanding’ is. And they depend upon you substituting your own definition that makes them sound reasonable. When they are anything but.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      ‘Understanding’ and ‘tolerating’ are two different things.

      • gtsix

        Tolerating and accepting another’s right to live as they are are.different as well.

    • Dice

      “Gender Fluidity” My Xenu! is this what they have come down too? How darrrreee those people! Fu*k them!

  • Everyone has different limits when it comes to abuse that they can withstand. Scientologists only leave once that limit has been exceeded. Provided they have the opportunity to do so before they die.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    Well, got two ‘Call me!’ bumper stickers from Zazzle coming now. Yippee!

    • Baby

      Woo Hoo.. fabulous Reverend Mama

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I’d like to see any police stop me. No way Hoza!
        I rode around since Flag Down (not sure of the year, that’s the shape I’m in lately) with that sticker on my car, never a problem,

        • Baby

          I know and I loved seeing it!

  • PerpetualOutflow

    O/T but has anyone posted yet about this week’s episode of The Path (Ep 3)? Despite claims the series isn’t about Scientology, this episode in particular has some scenes eerily reminiscent of it. Spoiler alert: if you want the episode to be a surprise, DO NOT read on. For example, locking a member in a small, bare bones room with a pad and paper and telling her she must “unburden” herself (i.e. confess to an act of adultery she claims not to have committed) and complete all the steps of a particular cult procedure before she is let out. Members lower on The Ladder are not allowed to know about the contents of this procedure or interact with her during it. And then there is the harsh, repeated accusatory recriminations from members telling her she is worthless and better come clean that eventually make her start doubting her own innocence and drive her to commit suicide. And there is the psychological breakdown of another member, forced to do a 14-day isolation stint in order to stay in good standing with the chult and save his marriage. Oh yes, and then there is the founder, unbeknownst to most members, lying sick and unconscious in a bed in Peru apparently near death. At the end, a young ambitious member seems to start to lay the groundwork for his own ascension by confiding in one of the other leaders that the founder is sick and had told hm he would be the successor. The series thus far is doing a great job of making viewers feel the pressure, despair, fear and even terror members feel under these circumstances and therefore understand a little better why they might choose to submit and stay rather than being cut off from their loved ones.

    • Juicer77

      I have seen episodes 1 and 2. Thoroughly agree. They do an excellent job of twisting your viewpoint around – is this person a villain? or a hero? or a victim? Or all three? The emotions are all there. I would caution anyone who has escaped a thought control group to be careful if you choose to watch this show. Mega triggers are possible. While there are Scientology similarities, it’s more a mash-up of every cult technique blended together. Fascinating, fascinating stuff.

      • gtsix

        And hugh dancy doesn’t hurt the eyes, does he?

        • Juicer77

          Superior choice on their part. Love to hate him. Attractive man. Confusing!

        • PerpetualOutflow

          I think Kyle Allen is doing a great job too capturing the earnestness and innocence of a teen in the chult who is trying so hard to adhere to its strictures and is really set on going all the way up The Ladder despite attending a public high school that is threatening to pierce the bubble he is in.

          • Juicer77

            Absolutely.

        • daisy

          They are an attractive cast . Love bombing implied I think.

          • gtsix

            Hannibal was like that for me… didn’t know which actor to crush on.

            Kidding, Mads and Gillian had me struck dumb. Such gorgeousness.

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Totally agree on the potential triggers and the multi-cult practices incorporated into it.

      • daisy

        Biggest difference is that the volunteers of the tornado seem to be actually helping .

        • Juicer77

          Sort of… but I have a feeling we will see that baby again…

        • ReallyMGM

          Does it show tornadoes or anything bad related to them? ( weird question, I know)

          • daisy

            They showed what seemed to be the aftermath of a tornado. The volunteers were clearing debris , handing out supplies etc. I am a distracted viewer of Tv. I am usually doing something else as well, so I miss a lot. Then I get pissed when I cannot figure out what is going on. Usually I am here and if the bunker is entertaining I blame them.

            • ReallyMGM

              Thx Daisy. Have my own trigger I have to avoid. I can probably watch that or skip over it.

            • daisy

              Oh I am afraid to ask. You have more than your fair share of life*s difficulties. I hope you are continuing to heal. I am not sure if the tornado will continue to be a big part of the story.

        • PerpetualOutflow

          Yes…they are helping them get into their cult.

          • daisy

            Slaps head , then throws out back – Of course !!

            • PerpetualOutflow

              Although you might suspect it coming, you don’t really see that until Ep 3.

            • daisy

              I am only on episode 2 – I had to watch that 2ce to figure out what was going on Adult ADD is a real thing. I commented last night even fake scientology confuses me.

            • PerpetualOutflow

              Being confused about Scientology is a badge of honor. It’s when you pretend that it makes perfect sense that you are suspect.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Because good news for a breather. Also, Pika critters. Whaa?

    http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

    http://i.imgur.com/Bo25oz4.jpg?1

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I’m in love with him. 🙂 He has my vote for Bunker mascot.

      • beauty for ashes

        is there a cuteness center in your brain? I swear mine is rapid firing on all cylinders. The cheeks and the ears are killing me…and th… zzzzt ZZZZZT…….

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I want one. Also, not much is known about that particular species. Perfect.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      What IS that, and can I have one???

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s called a Pika, but this particular version with these almost rabbit ears is a rarely seen – just recently photographed in remote parts of China. Just google Pika critter. I didn’t think it was real at first. I want one too!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Dear Scientology: This is what real science can do when people are allowed to, you know, connect. This is happening in the real world while you are working overtime to, you know, disconnect. What have you launched lately? Emptiness. All you launch is shiny marbled emptiness. Stop Disconnection Now before your last ship sinks.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/spacex-dragon-landing/story?id=38249281

    • PerpetualOutflow

      All those lives working feverishly to produce…”shiny, marbled emptiness.” So true and so sad.

      • sashiebgood

        I always think that the amount of hard work that scns do for so little reward is one of the saddest things about scientology. it is astounding to imagine the real and actual good that they could have and could accomplish had all their money and resources been used for any other purpose. if they actually ran good rehab facilities for example, or sent the volunteer ministers to places with supplies rather than useless booklets. I do believe that most people join scn with a true altruistic desire, but that it gets twisted to mindless busy work at best and cruelty at worst is a big tragedy.

        • PerpetualOutflow

          And the amount of needless paperwork, bureaucracy and wheel spinning makes the government look efficient.

        • Flying High

          Yes I agree and they would be amazed after the ‘disillusion’ phase settles and they are out how easy it is to align with good causes in the outside world and visually see good things come about that are done for society. This has worked for me and as a result have no resentment over my long-term involvement where I can now be more here for others and empowering them in moving forward.