Yo!

Absolutely on both counts!

It probably also helps Tami that CW is getting kicked out of meetings…..hopefully CW will get the help she needs and Tami will get some justice…..

Yes, me too!

Most people are decent and that is the difference. We get to see this whole scene play out in front of our eyes and we also get to contribute to the fight to halt the abuses.

Thank you for your insights and feedback!

I’m glad we understand each other.

I would only add that the only function of Hubbard’s ‘therapies’ was to condition people to comply.

Any help you found in those situations was a tribute to the irrepressible empathy and decency of some of people who undertook it with you.

Oh yes, totally agree with your #1 inasfar as dangerous to lethal.

On your #2, even though I wouldn’t recommend Hubbard’s counselling any more. The very first counselling I received was called Life Repair and it involved talking about rough times in your life, have you look at them through talking back and forth about it and various other ways which I now forget. Because I had a counselor who cared about people and their difficulties I felt good after this activity and felt I had changed for the better mentally. Of course this is one example from one view.

Hubbard’s Bridge to Total Freedom of counselling is based on what he thought was wrong with people (based on no research and imagination and lies). There is very little that deals with what the person thinks is wrong them (like Life Repair for instance).

No, I didn’t feel you were attacking me. You were making me think and consider things and inviting my views. I can understand, I think, the frustration that inside of a very bad deal like Scn there can be people who said it helped. Well, I think the help overall is minimal compared to the destruction and potential for destruction.

That made me remember something – Does anyone know whatever became of dentists Bruce and Beth Settle? They were a married clam couple who quit or sold their orthodontic (Bruce) and general dentistry (Beth) practices to join the SO and be SO dentists. They were both good, experienced dentists, with busy practices in the West Valley and Camarillo areas west of Los Angeles.

But they up and quit to join the SO, jeez, over 10 years ago I think. I always wondered what became of them.

Mr. C and I have always had friends from all over the world. We met overseas, have lived in numerous countries, and love learning new things and ways of looking at our world. I’m sure your dinners were a master’s education in world culture. You were very blessed to have that.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I appreciate your speaking honestly from “the point of view you had”. This provides an invaluable insight into what happened to Lisa, and what is still going on today.

I was trying to say that:

1) Even ‘standard tech’ is potentially dangerous – if you add “gross mishandling” It’s potentially lethal.

2)As long as there are people (like you friend)in the CofS who believe in this particular example of ‘standard tech’, there is always the potential for things to go very wrong indeed, especially in the more doctrinaire orgs. Even a lesser risk will bite you, if you take it often enough.

I find this aspect of Scientology doctrine frustrating. If I inadvertently sounded as if I was attacking you I apologise. That was exactly the opposite of what I intended to do.

I’m glad that your more loosely organised mission was able to acknowledge the obvious and allow the person you mention to seek proper care – and I’m glad you’ve put all that behind you.

Gosh, my reply certainly was from the view I had when I believed the technology was workable. My point was the difference between competent handling compared to gross mishandling leading to a death.

Way back in 1973 there was a girl, fairly new in Scn as was I, who went around the bend. She insisted it was because someone slipped a drug in her drink in a bar. The mission I was at did not try to deal with her because it was not set up to do so. She was admitted to the hospital, under psychiatric care. She never recovered, was in and out of group homes, and a year or so later committed suicide. No one blamed psychiatry for failure, or Scn for failure.

Your assessment is correct. Scn is abusive and dangerous and I can’t recommend it.