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	Comments on: Louis Theroux&#8217;s &#8216;My Scientology Movie&#8217;: A hilarious take on an unfunny bunch	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Brian J. Sheen		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1391756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian J. Sheen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1391756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The movie sounds great! I can&#039;t wait to see it!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The movie sounds great! I can&#8217;t wait to see it!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ruby Marlowe		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1207728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ruby Marlowe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2015 09:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1207728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Can&#039;t wait to see it! I&#039;m surprised he didn&#039;t lampoon Golden Era Productions. Who would they have cast as L. Con? What&#039;s Marty&#039;s problem Tony? Hasn&#039;t he given up on the &quot;freezoning&quot; garbage? Jesse Prince and Hana Eltringham-Whitfield have stated during the German Anonymous conference that there&#039;s really nothing to reform in Rondroidism, it&#039;s nothing more than an outdated form of Rogerian therapy and sci fi bullshit. Has Monique talked to him about seeing a psychiatrist? Do you thin Dr. Steve Hassan could put him into a real session?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t wait to see it! I&#8217;m surprised he didn&#8217;t lampoon Golden Era Productions. Who would they have cast as L. Con? What&#8217;s Marty&#8217;s problem Tony? Hasn&#8217;t he given up on the &#8220;freezoning&#8221; garbage? Jesse Prince and Hana Eltringham-Whitfield have stated during the German Anonymous conference that there&#8217;s really nothing to reform in Rondroidism, it&#8217;s nothing more than an outdated form of Rogerian therapy and sci fi bullshit. Has Monique talked to him about seeing a psychiatrist? Do you thin Dr. Steve Hassan could put him into a real session?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alice Graves		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1176679</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alice Graves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1176679</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1175517&quot;&gt;beauty for ashes&lt;/a&gt;.

I would love to import the term here but our American dialect is too bland to do it justice - it just wouldn&#039;t fly in the same way.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1175517">beauty for ashes</a>.</p>
<p>I would love to import the term here but our American dialect is too bland to do it justice &#8211; it just wouldn&#8217;t fly in the same way.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Once_Born		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1176631</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Once_Born]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1176631</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1175735&quot;&gt;OR2OR3OR4&lt;/a&gt;.

I pretty much go with your last paragraph.

Once you have established an isolated social situation under the absolute control of an unscrupulous individual, a whole range of social pressures emerge from it to obtain compliance.  I have tried to lay some of these out here https://scicrit.wordpress.com/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-series/

This kind of manipulation is far, far more powerful that people suspect, and recruits to Scientology often fall prey to it. Its effect is to persuade them to suspend their critical faculties so as to draw them into the organisation. It takes two to tango.

This is not to suggest that I think the victims are responsible for their own fate.  Again: these techniques are far more subtle and powerful than most people suspect. All it takes is a few bad choices. 

The brainwashing thesis is based on a model of physical coercion which simply does not apply to the early stages of Scientology membership. Social pressure is a better explanation. 

One thing that has kept this idea alive for so many years is the notion that the victim had no choice &lt;I&gt;whatsoever&lt;/I&gt;. People are told that their actions were totally irrelevant because they were &lt;I&gt;brainwashed&lt;/I&gt;. They are absolved from &lt;I&gt;all&lt;/I&gt; responsibility. 

That&#039;s very questionable. If &#039;brainwashing&#039; was really as powerful as this, nobody would be able to resist it, and we would not be having this conversation . 

The notion that someone was &#039;programmed&#039; against their will also leads logically on to justification of the abusive process of &#039;deprogramming&#039;. Deprogrammers argue that, f your mind has been changed by force,  it must be morally acceptable to use force to change it back again. 

It&#039;s not. In fact, deprogramming often fails, leaving the victim twice victimised and even more committed to the cult having seen the &#039;evil&#039; of the outside world that their guru warned them about, up close. 

At best it results in the deprogrammer imposing &lt;I&gt;his&lt;/I&gt;  worldview on another, making him as bad as the guru.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1175735">OR2OR3OR4</a>.</p>
<p>I pretty much go with your last paragraph.</p>
<p>Once you have established an isolated social situation under the absolute control of an unscrupulous individual, a whole range of social pressures emerge from it to obtain compliance.  I have tried to lay some of these out here <a href="https://scicrit.wordpress.com/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-series/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://scicrit.wordpress.com/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-series/</a></p>
<p>This kind of manipulation is far, far more powerful that people suspect, and recruits to Scientology often fall prey to it. Its effect is to persuade them to suspend their critical faculties so as to draw them into the organisation. It takes two to tango.</p>
<p>This is not to suggest that I think the victims are responsible for their own fate.  Again: these techniques are far more subtle and powerful than most people suspect. All it takes is a few bad choices. </p>
<p>The brainwashing thesis is based on a model of physical coercion which simply does not apply to the early stages of Scientology membership. Social pressure is a better explanation. </p>
<p>One thing that has kept this idea alive for so many years is the notion that the victim had no choice <i>whatsoever</i>. People are told that their actions were totally irrelevant because they were <i>brainwashed</i>. They are absolved from <i>all</i> responsibility. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s very questionable. If &#8216;brainwashing&#8217; was really as powerful as this, nobody would be able to resist it, and we would not be having this conversation . </p>
<p>The notion that someone was &#8216;programmed&#8217; against their will also leads logically on to justification of the abusive process of &#8216;deprogramming&#8217;. Deprogrammers argue that, f your mind has been changed by force,  it must be morally acceptable to use force to change it back again. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not. In fact, deprogramming often fails, leaving the victim twice victimised and even more committed to the cult having seen the &#8216;evil&#8217; of the outside world that their guru warned them about, up close. </p>
<p>At best it results in the deprogrammer imposing <i>his</i>  worldview on another, making him as bad as the guru.</p>
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		<title>
		By: OR2OR3OR4		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1175735</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OR2OR3OR4]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 23:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1175735</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1173102&quot;&gt;Once_Born&lt;/a&gt;.

Absolutely love your analyses on Scientology and Hubbard, many thanks for laying it out so lucidly. 


I always found it difficult to square the obvious lack of sophistication in Hubbard&#039;s writing and thinking with the success of his organization, but confronting the complicity of the group as a whole is profoundly clarifying, and makes strong intuitive sense. 

Perhaps it&#039;s difficult to accept this interpretation, as it&#039;s more comforting to see the source of so much suffering as an historically singular agent of evil acting upon its victims from the outside than it is to confront those things within ourselves that make the whole nightmare possible to begin with. 

The likely reality that charismatic leaders simply provide a pivot point for a bent and radical expression of human beings&#039; group-building instincts is a difficult one to face, and as such warrants serious consideration.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-1/#comment-1173102">Once_Born</a>.</p>
<p>Absolutely love your analyses on Scientology and Hubbard, many thanks for laying it out so lucidly. </p>
<p>I always found it difficult to square the obvious lack of sophistication in Hubbard&#8217;s writing and thinking with the success of his organization, but confronting the complicity of the group as a whole is profoundly clarifying, and makes strong intuitive sense. </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s difficult to accept this interpretation, as it&#8217;s more comforting to see the source of so much suffering as an historically singular agent of evil acting upon its victims from the outside than it is to confront those things within ourselves that make the whole nightmare possible to begin with. </p>
<p>The likely reality that charismatic leaders simply provide a pivot point for a bent and radical expression of human beings&#8217; group-building instincts is a difficult one to face, and as such warrants serious consideration.</p>
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		<title>
		By: beauty for ashes		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1175517</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[beauty for ashes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1175517</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1174698&quot;&gt;Alice Graves&lt;/a&gt;.

Shouty Crackers! love love love Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1174698">Alice Graves</a>.</p>
<p>Shouty Crackers! love love love Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alice Graves		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1174698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alice Graves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 04:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1174698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1173020&quot;&gt;beauty for ashes&lt;/a&gt;.

Like &quot;shouty crackers&quot;?  Theroux used this term when describing John Sweeney&#039;s shouting meltdown - he went all &quot;shouty crackers.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1173020">beauty for ashes</a>.</p>
<p>Like &#8220;shouty crackers&#8221;?  Theroux used this term when describing John Sweeney&#8217;s shouting meltdown &#8211; he went all &#8220;shouty crackers.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anders Riise Koch		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1174530</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anders Riise Koch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1174530</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Saw it today. Paz de la Huerta gatecrashing Louis&#039; interview with Marty made me laugh. I think he dealt well with the few interactions he had with current members (Catherine Fraser in particular). While it doesn&#039;t deal with disconnection or any of the other horrendous policies the Church promotes, I think the film will deter people further from getting involved to begin with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saw it today. Paz de la Huerta gatecrashing Louis&#8217; interview with Marty made me laugh. I think he dealt well with the few interactions he had with current members (Catherine Fraser in particular). While it doesn&#8217;t deal with disconnection or any of the other horrendous policies the Church promotes, I think the film will deter people further from getting involved to begin with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bert Allen		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1173728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bert Allen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2015 14:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1173728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1172721&quot;&gt;Spackle Motion&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree.  While I wish he would disclose fully, I understand why he doesn&#039;t.  I think he fears full disclosure will turn many in the anti- COS community against him.  I am not sure that this fear is legitimate, but I am not sure it is wrong either.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1172721">Spackle Motion</a>.</p>
<p>I agree.  While I wish he would disclose fully, I understand why he doesn&#8217;t.  I think he fears full disclosure will turn many in the anti- COS community against him.  I am not sure that this fear is legitimate, but I am not sure it is wrong either.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane456		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1173587</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane456]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=26186#comment-1173587</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1172840&quot;&gt;Derek&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s a hook, and you come to believe it&#039;s a noble cause.  A catholic can go into a church and pray for purely selfish things.  They can also come to believe that the church is a noble cause.  Both things can exist at the same time.  

They may start out for selfish reasons.  But are they not soon convinced that this cause is &quot;the cause&quot; and that they must protect it at all costs?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/10/15/louis-therouxs-my-scientology-movie-a-hilarious-take-on-an-unfunny-bunch/comment-page-2/#comment-1172840">Derek</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a hook, and you come to believe it&#8217;s a noble cause.  A catholic can go into a church and pray for purely selfish things.  They can also come to believe that the church is a noble cause.  Both things can exist at the same time.  </p>
<p>They may start out for selfish reasons.  But are they not soon convinced that this cause is &#8220;the cause&#8221; and that they must protect it at all costs?</p>
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