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Nora Crest in Toronto: Growing up in Scientology means indoctrination from birth

Nora_CrestWe had to leave the Toronto Scientology conference to deal with some changes back here in New York, but Jonny Jacobsen remained, and submitted this account of Nora Crest’s presentation on Wednesday.

Nora Crest gave a sharp, funny and at times moving account of what it is like to grow up inside Scientology. She was born in 1976, a few years after her mother had started in Scientology. Her mother was working with the Guardian’s Office in Sacramento – the old intelligence unit.

Her father, while he wasn’t officially with the GO, did help out with the Snow White Program, the vast operation to steal government documents relating to the movement. Years later, she learned that he had got a job in a government building in Sacramento, hiding out in the ladies’ toilets until after closing, so he could open a window and let the burglars in.

She asked him about it when she was older. “Do you want to be an OT?” he asked her. “Sure,” she said. “Then I can never tell you,” her father said. Her mother meanwhile, once her five-year staff contract was up, decided she had had enough and decided to back away from Scientology to raise her children.

Nora said that her grandmothers were both Christians, though from different denominations. Both insisted she attend communion. She remembers the first time, getting shoved up to the front with the other kids, given a wafer and told to eat the body of Christ; given wine and told to drink the blood of Christ.

“What?! Well at least in Scientology we don’t eat people.” She wasn’t wild about Bible study class either. “These religious things seemed so wacky and crazy.” On the other hand, she said, Scientology, seemed cooler to me as a kid. We were the ‘religion of religions’.”

Her parents divorced, and while her mother was drawing back from Scientology, her father was getting more deeply involved – to the point where he was incorporating Scientology practices into their games.

He had been doing the Scientology Training Routines, the basic exercises described here at the Bunker by Claire Headley. But her dad had her doing the Blinkless confront TR – aged just seven years old. He also seemed obsessed with knowing who she had been in her past life. “Picture that radio,” he would tell her, indicating an old device from the 1950s. “Where have you seen that before?”

“Fortunately, my mum was my sanity thing,” said Crest. Her mother drummed into her the importance of getting an education. And the fact that they did not have a lot of money turned out to be a good thing, she said: “Being poor actually saved me from a terrible Scientology education.” So she was educated in the public school system – and they were good schools.

“Then, when I was about 13, my father came down like the hammer of Thor.” When she and her sister Sara turned up to spend the holidays with him and their stepmother they were told that they would be going to Scientology school for the summer. She wasn’t happy.

This was her first taste of Scientology indoctrination, she said. “My mother never assigned me lower ethics,” which is what happened to kids in some Scientology households, “but we were put in an environment where that was happening. And then my father pimped me out to recruiters at PAC,” the Big Blue base in Los Angeles. He accompanied her while one recruiter after another pitched how great it would be to work for them.

At that time however, she was still too young to join of her own accord and knew that her mother would be dead set against it. But now she was seriously thinking about signing up with Scientology.

“I started thinking about the Sea Org a lot. Before that it was basketball, boys, TV and movies; now I was thinking about mankind and the universe.”

Now every time she was shooting the hoops on the basketball court she was wondering whether she shouldn’t really be out there saving the universe. So come the age of 18, she signed up for the Sea Org, to the delight of her father. “Mum was not happy,” she added.

“Suddenly the ethics was much harsher,” she said. She went through a variety of posts (including a spell at the Celebrity Center, which she spoke about on Tuesday). Things went sour and she tried on several times to leave and ended up on the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), Scientology’s punishment camp.

“I grew up in Scientology but straddling the two worlds,” she said. “I would get violent when people described Scientology as a cult.” But what she now realizes is that the indoctrination of children really starts from birth.

Time was limited so we didn’t hear all the shocking details of her story inside the Sea Org. You can learn more about that over at Nora’s website, Raging Buddha.

— Jonny Jacobsen

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable
We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Our upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
June 28: Clearwater, Florida (with Paulette Cooper) Clearwater Public Library, 2 pm, sponsored by Center for Inquiry-Tampa Bay and the Humanist Society of the Suncoast.

July 12: Washington DC, Center for Inquiry (with Paulette Cooper)

July 14: Hartford, MARK TWAIN HOUSE (with Tom Tomorrow)

July 17: Denver, The Secular Hub, 7 pm (with Chris Shelton)

July 20: Dallas, Times Ten Cellar, 7 pm (with Robert Wilonsky)

July 22: Houston, Fox and Hound, 11470 Westheimer Road, sponsored by Humanists of Houston

July 24: San Antonio

July 25: Austin

July 29: Paris (with Jonny Jacobsen)

August 4: London (with John Sweeney)

August 24: Boston, Boston Skeptics in the Pub, 7 pm

September 16: Arizona State University

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 25, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Good morning. Burning the candle at one end will eventually burn down the candle, too. Though I am tired I look forward to day four of the event. I am sure that I will crawl into day five. Our hope that our hosts are doing well and that the other conference participants are still sleeping and will wake up feeling strong.

    A kind word for my beloved, Jocelyn, who is taking care of the home front so that I can participate in something that means this much to me.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Stay strong Mighty One. Plan some rest for after the conference (if the Princess will allow it, of course). 🙂

    • aquaclara

      So glad you are there, too, Korgo. There are so many incredible moments coming out of this event. It gives me goosebumps.

  • Snake Plissken

    “Then, when I was about 13, my father came down like the hammer of Thor.” When she and her sister Sara turned up to spend the holidays with him and their stepmother they were told that they would be going to Scientology school for the summer. She wasn’t happy.

    This was her first taste of Scientology indoctrination, she said. “My mother never assigned me lower ethics,” which is what happened to kids in some Scientology households, “but we were put in an environment where that was happening. And then my father pimped me out to recruiters at PAC,” the Big Blue base in Los Angeles. He accompanied her while one recruiter after another pitched how great it would be to work for them.

    At that time however, she was still too young to join of her own accord and knew that her mother would be dead set against it. But now she was seriously thinking about signing up with Scientology.

    “I started thinking about the Sea Org a lot. Before that it was basketball, boys, TV and movies; now I was thinking about mankind and the universe.”

    13 year old children being brainwashed into believing they have to dedicate their lives to saving the universe by joining a cult.

    This is where is changes from just being about crazy beliefs to being a criminal organization trying to exploit children for slave labor.

    • Missionary Kid

      I was brainwashed as a child to believe that it was my duty as a Christian to save the world, and to dedicate my life to Jesus, but I also was expected to live a more or less normal life and to get an education in subjects other than the bible.

      Youth leaders were expected to indoctrinate us, but also to provide fun. We weren’t treated as little adults, and that made a HUGE difference compared with what Sarah went through.

      If I were to become a preacher, or missionary like my dad, I would be expected to engage in self examination and prayer as well as questioning from the church as to what I really wanted to do. The default position was not to become a preacher or lay worker for life, and if I wanted to leave it at any time, the door was always open.

      • Snake Plissken

        I was brainwashed by catholicism at a very young age too, but it was never ever implied by anyone I’ve ever come in contact with that I should quit school so I could work to save mankind by serving Jesus. In fact it was just the opposite, I was encouraged to do well in school so I could become a Jesus loving productive member of society.

        • Missionary Kid

          I realized when I was writing what I did, that the Hubbfuck doctrine of kids being little adults naturally leads to child abuse.

          • And by adults, they mean worker production units.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s total depersonalization, isn’t it?
              One way to make it moral to do evil to your enemies is to make them inhuman. Hitler did it with the Jews, but Hubbard went a step further and depersonalized his followers as well.

          • Illinoisian

            On all levels, he used language, and formulated doctrine, to disconnect the mind from all the natural positive emotions and reactions: being moved to care for children, the elderly and anyone in need of help, wanting justice and fair play, longing for an emotionally supportive community with close friends and family. It’s frightening how completely his ‘doctrine’ disables ‘the better angels of our nature.’

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly. He eliminated everyone’s personality, except his own. Ronbots who no longer serve themselves or humanity. Just Ron.

          • SarahDB

            Hubbard’s treatment of his own children was such a good example to all the scilons.

            • Missionary Kid

              Well put.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Scientology’s “disconnection” (extremist shunning, radical full bore shunning) is the extra ingredient that is MOST offensively operative and damaging, family splitting, about Scientology.

          Scientology’s “disconnection” repair requirements are too MUCH.

          If Scientoloogy were to only reform their “repair” of being disconnected requirements.

          Make the hurdle for re-allowing family to talk, send each other even Holiday and Birthday well wishes, Scientology ought to lessen their hated disconnection by at least lowering the re-connection/re-communication requirements.

          Hubbard’s disconnection rules are just in need of reform, something they could do, but not with their setup, their other Hubbard rules just demand their totalitarian nature that from Paulette Cooper’s “Scandal of Scientology” to today, is unchanged extremist.

          Ground for then the argument that disconnection and other of Hubbard’s totalitarian hard-cast Scientology policies are grounds for Scientology to ALWAYS be outside watched.

          Until Scientology becomes less totalitarian.

          I wish, I know it is completely offensive, but I wish the heir of Melton, would put up a thought-experiment defense of Scientology, to at least official frame Scientology’s side.

          In the ciritics community, doing the thought experiment presentation of how Scientology “could” be “okay”, is the missing public voice.

          I agree it’s an impossible voice, but were Bryan Wilson alive, I’d like to hear his defense of Scientology as it is today.

          Just to then further discuss Scientology.

          The pro Scientology voice is completely blotted out, there is no layout presentation (at least in thought experiment form) supporting Scientology’s current status quo.

          No one home to defend Scientology’s side.

          If the people who were the “Hole” category of “top” Scientology were set free in a hotel to convene and answer media questions, that’d be a start.

          • Eclipse-girl

            if scientology became less totalitarian, there would be more and more people escaping.

            Consider if Sara Goldman could still continue to see her daughter and granddaughter.
            Daughter would know that brother is getting is life together without scientology.
            Daughter would know that all wogs are not inherently evil
            Daughter could start to question the precepts of scientology.
            Granddaughter would be exposed to material to help her question the indoctrination that she will undergo.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Escaping to other squirrel groups, etc, just the normal progression that occurs, as laid out in the academics’ books, like Roy Wallis’ “The Road to Total Freedom” which has long ago just repeated what these academics studying religion/mystical gorups have already long noted.

              There is in any case all of these softening, splintering, ex member paths already taken in other groups in history, it’s norml.

              Hubbard’s official Scentology rules by Miscavige today, suffers departures to the “squirrel” groups anyways.

              The backlash “free” constant negative promotion of Scientology, it’s been noted also, is one of the false luring free advertisements, that keeps Scientology “in the news” sadly, a reverse free promotion for people still gullible to what Hubbard’s Scientology/Dianetics bold claims advertise.

              Really, it is waiting for Miscavige to die of old age, natural causes, to see IF there will later on, be a change, a lessening, of the requirements to re-allow connection once Scientology’s official current “disconnection” has been applied.

              The big sad news of Exec Strata/WDC being non-existent to review and reform the SP declaring/disconnetion/amnesty/lowering the requirement to reconnect, isn’t happening.

              Not until, again, as everyone has realized since about 1989, until Miscavige GOES.

              Hubbard’s rules are just too easy to keep in vicious place, for whoever comes along after Miscavige, but that’s the moment to wait and watch.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I want families to reconnect.

              I want the abuses to end – sea org, the hole etc

              Do you think that can happen? It seems as if so much of the doctrine is based on abuse.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yes, but the percentage of it happening are low.

              The saddest realization, I came to, was when I started re-reading Pauette’s “Scandel of Scientology” last week, preparing myself for this conference, and noting her book framed the same problems that are unchanged today.

              It’s disheartening, and academics have failed to “go there”, except for Hugh’s book, and he of course was held up by the “religion” argument/angle/IRS discussion, which Tony voiced about that Hugh’s book, Tony’s disappointment.

              There needs to be a FOOT really intellectually, put in the door, somehow, by some smart mind, that WILL make Scientology’s extremist behavior change.

              So far, no FOOT.

              The “Hole” people don’t have the mental horsepower, none of them, to think their way out of Hubbard’s box “Prison of Belief” rules that the movement top Mimeo Files and the SIR databases lands ALL of the behind the scene “top” rules on whoever reaches those lofty top management control levers.

              Need both a smartie to take the movement over, some benevolent Marcus Aurelious smartie, or some outside smartie who TELLS the leftovers of Miscavige, when he dies, WHAT to do, and those “Hole” leftover broken people, or more likely, the NEXT couple generation of younger Sea Orgers who rise up in the years to come, to take over the control levers, they as a group parse the Hubbard minefield of rules for them as top leaders, and solve it.

              Some Marcus Aurelious, smartie leader, someone NOT offended from even rising up, who doesn’t become a Miscavige savage asshole, on their way up.

              Hubbard’s whole Bridge to becoming a leader in Scientology, is a treacherous one that changes their personalities all it’s own!

              Not an easy problem.

              Small small percentage, like how often the really smart ethical leaders even occur in ANY human major civilization in human history!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I was thinking of someone anyone who could do that.
              Someone who has risen through the ranks, and retained their personal integrity.
              The names that popped in my head have become exes, outspoken critics

              Is it wrong of me to not want that to happen, and just to have scientology and all or most of its spins offs to just die, no longer be in the business of ruining people lives?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Claire Headley, she has the humanity to have done so.

              I think even if when Bitty, Jenna’s mom, when Bitty was number 2, had Miscavige been permanently sidelined, and Bitty rose to COB, truly, things would have changed.

              No Bitty’s, no Claire Headley’s today.

              Thisis an important question, and outsider Scientology observers like you doing a little outside personnel resources questioning and getting some of the ex senior members like Claire Headley to answer this question, seriously and name names of really WHO of whom is still there, or on their “way up” the treacherous rising Top Exec future path, even naming, ASK THIS QUESTION of Claire!!!

            • Eclipse-girl

              given the misogyny of hubbards early writings, would believers have accepted a woman as their ecclesiastical leader?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              YES!!

              Mary Sue held herself immense power.

              I gave really easy allegience to Bitty, to Shelly.

              Debbie Cook for gawd’s sake was a very loved leader, of absoluting-fircking-YES!

              Hubbard’s misogyny was overruled by his last-lives theory, where women are like men, are just “thetans”/souls—who all have lived all sexes on the track. (Hubbard vaulted Mary Sue to GO boss power by Hubbard’s “Simon Bolivar” policy, which Hubbard said Manuela’s failure to support Bolivar was significant to Bolivar’s fall.)

              Hubbard’s Sea Org tough statements about how sex and case are NO excuse to one pushing through and getting the job done, etc.

              Hubbard’s “Were you one of the Loyal Officers?” question to Hana, absolutely, Hubbard gave women equal total power. Yvonne’s power to found Celebrity Centre,,, etc, etc.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Did the public understand that Mary Sue wielded such great power?

              I am looking at this as a never in and after several personal stories have been written.

              In the 1960s and 1970s, did the public know that Mary Sue and Jane Kemper held the power that they did?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yes, beause many knew of Hubbard’s nod to Mary Sue, as Hubbard policies and tech give Mary Sue credit as a strong early successful “Director of Processing” role that she held. Mary Sue wrote many BPLs herself, and it was sad that all were “cancelled” as were all non LRH BPLs, one of Mary Sue’s did survive, and her love of Ron just permanently reflected highly back on her, her famous: “The Way Ron Works” writing DID survive the edit that Hubbard even made.

              Yes, yes, yes, to all questions, and Jane Kember of course, the public knew all this.

              Top Scientologists all rose in the 1960s to be wherever Ron was, to Saint Hill, and of course saw the Guardian’s Office then as a really good thing, Jane’s imperious overseeing my impression was Jane was colder by far than Mary Sue, but the two held unquestioned modern female role accepted power.

              The women’s power rights sharing in Scientology was absolutely accepted.

              Countless examples of women in power in Scientology’s history.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              “….is it wrong of me to not want…..scientology and all or most its spin offs to just die……”

              Brain cell space taken up by the mediocre Hubbard written and spoken tripe that the Scientologists injest upon themselves, it’ll be a long process for all those brain cell memories to fade, and on top, there are the Hubbard physical books left around, transferring Hubbard’s crap to new brain cells.

              It’s a sticky long term human history of passing on ideas problem.

              Hubbard wrote, there’s still his books, his script, waiting for the new dupes.

              Chris Shelton’s focus on reasoning, that whole larger human society issue of what to teach in schools, how far to allow crazy subjects have their say, as ridiculously bad as all their allowed free speech sayings are, is just a tough bigger human allowed issue.

              People have to have a boost help to learn to reason their way around crazy crap.

        • Tracy Schmitz

          me too, i was raised catholic, but i never thought about it besides the hour i went to church before school and the hour on sunday with the family. i do remember thought it being “implied” that a good catholic should not attend other religious functions (i.e. marriages, masses, etcetera) i don’t know of this is still around or not. i do know that I my family or anyone i knew and went to school with who of course were fellow catholics ever listened to that though. we did what we pleased and spent time at and with anyone we pleased.

          on a sidenote: confessions were and are NOT like scientology audits! the priest never ever asked ME questions, and sure as heck didn’t ask me extremely rude, intimate questions about everything and anything (including sex? what religion would ask someone about their sex life in graphic detail?acts, deeds, thoughts, fantasies, etcetera?) nor WRITE WHAT I SAID DOWN?! and keep in a permanent file folder (why?) for all time sake, and make me sign a contract saying that i am not even entitled to my OWN folder with my OWN information, that it’s the “church’s” now?! really scientologists? really?!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Awesome… thanks for sharing your experiences, Nora! 🙂

  • Andrew Robertson

    Nora’s story is sad and moving. But it’s greatly encouraging that some young people, by their own strength of will and intellect, manage to break away from the dreadful conditioning of a malignant cult and are unafraid to express themselves objectively and without rancor about their childhood.

    Andrew

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Nora’s honesty is infectiously good!

  • aquaclara

    Tony, wishing you much success in your new endeavor. You have tremendous journalistic chops, and tv needs you. I’m looking forward to this next phase, too. Who knows what it will bring? Only good stuff, for sure.

    Raw Story now has many more followers, and we won’t be leaving there any time soon, either.

    Congratulations.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      I subscribed to LipTV and look forward to their success!

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Nora, you are strong, beautiful and brave. I look forward to seeing your film. I hope it helps many children heal, leave or encourages them to tell their story.

    Child mother-fucking labor…..AAGGGHHHH!! Sooner or later Dave, you were bound to cross a line, your low impulse control assured it. You’ve now gone over the edge and are hanging by a rope. I will savor the day someone comes along and cuts it you sick, sadistic prick.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      You know what, I thought I was done….I’m not. So much of the abuse in Co$ bothers me but the kids…oh man, the kids being used/abused just guts me. My coffee is sitting here next to me, I don’t even want it right now…my stomach is too upset.

      I look at my son who is nearing 14 and I try to imagine him being thrown into that world and my eyes immediately well up…as a matter of fact…my eyes are welling up just typing this. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE who abuses a child should be sent to gen. pop. in prison with a “Child Abuser” sign on their chest, and forced to fend for themselves.

      I am so fucking angry right now, the only sound I can hear is a round being chambered. FUCK this whole nasty machine that chews people up and spits them out. TICKFUCKINGTOCK Dave!!!!!!!!!!

      • Missionary Kid

        TICKFUCKINGTOCK Dave, indeed.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Mish, as a Mom…I just can’t. I’ll immediately start to cry when I even think of it. It is so damn unfair. When Nora’s film comes out I plan to spread it far and wide because I really don’t think people get how bad it is for kids.

          So far, getting our Governments attention has been like talking to a brick wall and expecting it to answer back. *sigh* You know what though, I have to focus on the good we’re doing, the good this conference is doing, or I’m just going to sit here and cry.

          Quick, tell me a joke. LOL 😀

          • Missionary Kid

            Why do they bury $cientologists on hillsides?

            Because they’re dead.
            (Dumb joke, but I had to come up with something quickly. )

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              *giggles*

              You didn’t have to become a missionary my friend, you uplift people from right where you’re sitting. MWAH!! 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              One of my best and oldest friends once told me that he had envisioned me as a leader of a movement, kind of similar to a preacher or missionary, but not. I guess that’s what I try to do here.

              I guess I now know my “special purpose” as Steve Martin would have put it in The Jerk.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              You’re a fucking warrior MK, with a kind heart. Unique, interesting, loving, hard when you have to be, soft when you need to be, a gem that we are lucky to have. I am not at all surprised your friend saw that in you. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              *Blushes*
              Every once in a while, I get so pissed at $cientology that I want to scream and cry and metaphorically kick the dog. (I’d never kick a dog IRL).

              At that point, I have to step away for a while. I realize we’re in this together, and the better that people feel, the more they can do. I’m glad I’ve helped a little.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              <3

            • Missionary Kid

              <3 to you, too. Your family is lucky to have you.

            • Cedilla

              So they can all use the same headstone.

            • Missionary Kid

              Good answer.

          • ReallyMGM

            The government has failed to take charge in all three branches. Nothing from the White House petition (there never is, to be honest), nothing in Congress. (Has anything ever been investigated?), and we know how bad the Judicial system’s record is in regard to this. The only real noise has come from the unofficial “fourth branch of government,” the media. That noise is not going away; it is getting even louder.

          • SarahDB

            Nola, I have to believe that every little bit of effort against the Co$ is going to have an impact over time…it’s hard to see it incrementally, but just look how much easier it has become for exes and never-ins to band together than 20 years ago. Look how many negative Co$ articles are appearing in mainstream media! Look at the plethora of youtube stories out there of personal stories of being in the Co$, not to mention Karen & Jeffrey, Tory, Chris, etc. We are making inroads, little by little, little by little…we can outlast them!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              All facts Sarah. About a year ago, an ex told me “Don’t let the bad blind you to the good, even when this movement is getting nowhere for a time, it is full of kind, caring people and that light can never be snuffed out.”

              I will never, ever forget those words. I get angry…a lot lol…but I know how far we’ve come and I know we can go further. I am here for the duration. ; )

            • SarahDB

              me too! (((hugs)))

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              (((hugs))) right back. Thank you. 🙂

            • Eclipse-girl

              those good caring people are being duped to give up their lives, their children’s lives, all for the inurement of Let Him Die.

            • ReallyMGM

              Also look how many “never ins” are here learning and talking. For so long it was just survivors and family members speaking out. The movement is growing with the media exposure.

          • Sid

            Beelzebub, and 50 of his friends walk into a bar. Beelzebub says “Flaming Volcano cocktails” all round. The bartender Xenu whips up a batch.

            Later, Beelzebub walks out of the bar.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              So…Xenu didn’t make it through the wall of Flaming Volcanoes? 😀

            • Sid

              I think the 50 pals all became BTs. The joke fell flat I think. There goes my career dream as a comedy writer.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Bahahaha!! BT’s always save any joke. 🙂

            • Sid

              I know. Sometimes they are the only ones who laugh at my corny jokes. Can’t live with them, can’t stuff ’em back into volcanoes. At least they’re good for something.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Mine are lazy as hell. I’ve been asking them to clean out that hall closet for years…nada. LOL 🙂

            • Sid

              When I was auditing on OT3 the supervisor asked a question that made an interesting point (at the time). He wondered if BTs, once run out and released, are better off than we are, since we still had thousands of BTs stuck to us and they were back to their only just them state. Funny how people try to fit logic into such a crazy ass notion in the first place. I think we try to fit our thinking into things sometimes, rather than evaluate the merits of an external concept. I remember times almost forcing my brain physically to wrap around something LRH said. Created a few headaches for sure.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Logic and Hubtardism’s locked in a death grip inside your skull. Ugh. So glad you got the hell out Sid. There are not enough words for how much I wish more would follow your lead.

              My wish for the end of this year is that the UTR/half out the door numbers are bigger than the number of active, fully-believing victims.

            • Pepper

              I’m with you Sid. OT3 is totally insane. And why should BT’s be “free” or actually “clear” but the person solo auditing isn’t? It makes no sense!

          • Juicer77

            (f5)

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Awwww! 🙂

          • Jimmy3

            A man we’ll call Dave was out hunting ducks one day. He spotted one, took aim and fired. It fluttered around a bit before falling on a nearby farm.

            Dave goes to collect the duck and finds the farmer has already picked it up.

            “Hey, that’s mine! I shot it!” Dave says.

            “But it landed on my field. It’s mine.” The farmer replies.

            So they argue about this until the farmer comes up with a solution. He suggests they kick each other in the groin until one man gives up. The winner gets the duck. Dave reluctantly agrees to this plan.

            The farmer is up first. He approaches his kick like an NFL punter would. I mean, he really puts his boot into it. Just nails a 60-yarder. Wham!

            Now Dave is on the ground in a fetal position gasping for air for about 10 minutes. On the verge of tears. Finally, he gets up, and in a high-pitched squeal he says, “Okay.. Okay.. My turn.”

            The farmer says, “Nah. You can keep the stupid duck.”

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Hey! How did you get inside my head? lol Don’t ever leave us Jimmy. 🙂

            • Juicer77

              *applause*

      • Bill

        THE IRS HAS TO STOP THIS INSANITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Pepper

        Spoken like a good person…

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Awww thanks Pepper. I’d only amend that statement to add “pissed off person” 😀

    • Sunny

      NOLAGirl, this child labor crap is from before Dave… Dave took over in 1986. He just continued the “legacy” or whatever crap you want to call it.
      Right now both of my kids are the exact same age my mother was when she joined the Sea Org. I look at them and I cannot imagine EVER doing something like that to them.
      To this day I still have trouble wrapping my wits around how Scientology and the Sea Org is able to have such a tight grip on its members. It is so hard to release yourself from it and get out. If nothing else, it certainly is the best mind trap EVER.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Sunny, I have no words for what you went through…other than I am glad you’re out.

        I know LRH started it all, and DM just continues it. Know that when I rail against Dave it’s aimed at LRH too, but Dave is the only one alive that can still pay for it, so he is the one I yell at. 😀

        • Sunny

          Fair enough! Yes he has continued it.
          You know what? DM himself is raised in too. And look how he turned out.
          I wonder how he would do out in the world. He would quickly find his bullying has no place anywhere. He would be put in his place pretty quickly. Jail might possibly humble him, might not.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            I am very interested in finding out what jail will do to him. I don’t actually care, but I’d like to know. 🙂

            Raised in it or not, he is the one person I will never be able to find a speck of sympathy for. He is an evil little prick and whatever he gets…well, he “pulled it in” 😀

  • Sunny

    Nora I am glad you are telling your story. And what you endured in the Sea Org at CC was outrageous and you were a trooper. It is heart warming to see you out and speaking out.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      You too Sunny!!!!!!

      SO happy, wish you and Nora and others of your generation would have your own little conference, I’d love to hear your details, all of you second gen Sea Org younger people. Just amazing amount of honestly and life, you guys were the life of the Sea Org, a joy to be around, all of you. I secretly loved to to see you young people trying the Sea Org on, am so sad it is such a horrid fake operation false life.

      • lmnop

        This is an important idea, a conference for people who grew up in scientology, I would definitely support this in any way I could. The kids have no choice, and parents sign over guardianship to someone in the church, it’s horrifying…

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Jamie DeWolf electrifies.

    Bare bones, no music,
    on the sterile stage of a hotel airport conference centre,
    all polyester curtain back-drop and industrial carpet,
    lost in an ocean of concrete and freeways,
    suddenly, even if you know the text virtually word for word,
    have seen (multiple times 🙂 the video of the first time he performed it –
    his mom was in the audience then, with no idea the pustulence
    of four generations earlier was about to be lanced –
    even if the text is initially written for never-ins and neophytes,
    Jamie electrifies.

    He moves, he scowls, he channels, a verbal assault
    of poetry, of scorn, of disdain and anger,
    a defence of the grandfather who was destroyed by the malevolence
    that was his cult-creator narcissistic father.

    Then, he read from Nibs’ memoir – only the second time he has done so.
    Flagdown, last year, was the other.
    Find it.
    It is dark Satanic stuff.

    And he didn’t read the worst of it, as Jon pointed out.
    The memoir is Nibs setting the record clear.
    Jon says it is from 1982.

    I squirmed inside as Crowley’s amoral precepts, distilled by the darkness that was Hubbard,
    were laid out with a poetry of evil that Hubbard,
    with his hirpling prose and bastard neologisms, could never match.

    It was visceral, the malaise in the room.

    Vaquera and I were shoulder to shoulder in the the dark woods
    on a moonless night.
    “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.”

    $cientology does not work as advertised but as intended.
    And Nibs laid it out in all it’s lurid evil.

    Everyone in the room asked him to do a piece about his daughter –
    a piece full of laughter, the conventions of proud parents at school awards neatly skewered.

    Jamie can be wickedly funny.

    After, as Jon Atack was speaking about Nibs’ memoir and the dark descriptions
    of Lord Hubris’ attempts to bend all men to his will, I reached across Vaquera to
    Madame Duran to borrow a pen – mine had long since died in attempting to transcribe
    what Nora (BBJ) said – she can talk, boy, can she talk – and of Larry Wollersheim’s
    wonderful measured video message.
    A phrase had popped into my mind.
    I write: “LRH: soul vampire”

    About 3 or 4 minutes later Jon called him a vampire of spirits.
    I turned to Texas to show her what I had scribbled.

    Yesterday morning, after Steve Hassan told us of his journey into
    and out of the Moonies in the ’70’s, he and Jon did a beautiful deconstruction
    of the hypnosis techniques in the initial training routines – TR0 etc.

    We watched ashtrays stand up.
    “Thank you.”
    We watched bottles and books be evaluated for weight and temperature.

    The loaded language, the bending of the initiate to obedience,
    unquestioning acceptance of double binds and lies, it was a masterly takedown.

    Nora, in the session after lunch spoke of “the first time my father pimped me out to recruiters.”
    She was 14.
    When she finished her story of having grown up straddling two worlds,
    she showed the video she and her husband have made.
    “From Cradle to Slave.”
    She wondered if the name was too strong.
    Nancy Many, beside me, yelled “No, it’s the truth.”
    There were tears and catharsis.
    Thank you, BBJ.

    This conference is amazing.

    More later, friends.

    • Snake Plissken

      Jamie DeWolf is awesome, I remember when his appearance at Flag Down 2014 was first posted on youtube I clicked on it thinking I wasn’t going to watch the whole hour and eight minutes, but after it ended I was wishing it was longer.

      • Observer

        After having watched Jamie I can believe there is a Hubbard charisma. After listening to LRH I still don’t see any evidence that he had a shred of it.

        • Mockingbird

          There’s a hypothesis in social psychology I will butcher with oversimplification and have professionals ready to castrate me over . The super short version is that in evolution we have needed decisive , quick thinking and even more quick acting leaders . If thousands and thousands of years ago groups could act and react quickly and with a degree of unity and direction it could help them to live and function better than if they have an uncertain , too cautious and particularly too indecisive and either slow acting or even worse reluctant to act and unable to make any hard or important decisions leader .

          Evolution paradoxically selects strong , confident , certain , fast acting leaders. But the most certain and confident people are narcissists and sociopaths. They present themselves as strong and assertive , confident and decisive. They do this easily as their sense of superiority frees them from self doubt abd their lack of empathy makes tough decision making for others easy for them . They don’t mind breaking eggs to get omelettes – or breaking promises , killing enemies or friends to get gains for themselves.

          By being unfettered by morals or standards of human decency they play life as a very different game than others who can be constrained by morals , conflicted by consequences and conflicts of interest.

          That is a natural dichotomy – we need strong decisive, clear leadership to live and thrive but we cannot survive well if we submit to totalistic , antisocial , abusive or narcissistic leaders .

          We have to in my opinion recognize and address our desires , nature and needs honestly and as sensibly and logically as possible . I cannot pretend to know the best or any proven political system or solutions for this but I can suggest this as a starting point for consideration .

      • chukicita

        I had that exact same experience.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I wish Diana Hubbard would watch all of Jamie’s YouTube videos, on L. Ron Hubbard, and the two of them meet, and talk, and their meeting and talking be recorded.

        I so wish Jamie and the Hubbard’s still alive would someday meet.

    • aquaclara

      I was away yesterday, and look what happens. The proprietor gets a new job, Nora reminds us of exactly why we’re here in words and video, and Jamie DeWolf kicks the bar up a few more impossibly high notches. Talent all around, exposing evil and sharing truth.

      Damn it, I hate this cult.

      Thanks, Pan, for a great synopsis.

      • Bob

        Tony got a new job? I missed that unless you are talking about “acclaimed author and lecturer”.

        • Eclipse-girl

          tony is gong to become the new editor at Media Mayhem.

        • aquaclara

          Ha, ha, you, too. I don’t feel so bad. News travels at lightning speed around here. Ok, Click on his link “some changes” in the second line of today’s post for more details. It’s also in the twitter posts up top left.

          • Bob

            Thanks. I will check it out. Hard to keep up these days.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      So great…..Nancy Many yelling “No, it’s the truth.”

      It’s even absurdly worse, but Jamie just gets it so right, it’s relieving just to listen to him tell it.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Wow! Love Nora’s stories.

    Someday Nora, you and 3 other luminary ex members have to play 2 on 2, basketball!

    You, Marty Rathbun, against Mark Fisher and Bill Dendiu!

    I wish you could have been on the court at the Int Base during the basketball allowed years!

    You’d have been a riot and shown up the players there, I’m sure!

    If you ever are in the same place as Marty, Fisher, Dendiu, ask them to shoot some hoops!

    Dendiu was a super riot to play on the same court with, Fisher plays fair and serious, Marty’s in a class of his own.

    • Snake Plissken

      “basketball allowed years”

      Let me guess … basketball was banned because it pissed Miscavige off to no end that it was making a few people smile.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Probably couldn’t stand that everyone could dunk over his miniature ass.

        • ReallyMGM

          He was the water boy.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Soon to be someones bitch boy. ; )

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        BBall more squeezed out, due to whatever current OTHER priorities I’d have asked that same question of Nora and any Sea Org PAC vets, great side indicator.

        One should ask the OSA Int staffers who are BBall nuts, when was the last time they snuck out for some!

    • Chad Braunersrither

      I use to play basketball during CSP down off of Western with a few of the guys. Growing up an athlete, it was great to play again.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        yea, that Western Av court, a couple times a few ex LA high school players even joined, or “we” joined their games, one or two of the LA High Schoolers could jam/dumk even.

  • “I started thinking about the Sea Org a lot. Before that it was basketball, boys, TV and movies; now I was thinking about mankind and the universe.”

    And that’s the story that Scientology sells to people when they’re trying to hook them, but somehow those Big Thoughts about mankind and the universe turn into thoughts about how to get your stats up for Thursday at 2pm by any means necessary.

  • SarahDB

    Good morning Bunkeroos! Don’t forget in between conference updates to exercise your flagging finger on those pesky Co$ ads on Craigs List!

    Tips for Red Xing: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-120#post-2533632

    CL as spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    • ReallyMGM

      After RedX-ing my area, I did a search on the Craigslist Forum for “Scientology.” What a bunch of complainers. Have they ever thought of using a thesaurus for an alternative to the word “bigot?” Anyhow, there complaints about malicious flagging are numerous, and the responses are funny. Mostly they are told CL is free, and perhaps they should seek another form of advertising if they are unhappy. Check it out after you RedX!

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Ooo complaining clams? I didn’t even know CL had forums. Do you have a link love? I’ve got to see this. 🙂

        • ReallyMGM

          You have to have a CraigsList account. It is free. I used my burner email account, left all info empty and private, then checked the forum folder at the top of the page. It is easy to find. If not, I will copy/paste a few of the funnier ones at a slow time in the early morning hours when it is slow here. I will leave you a note so you will know to look when I do.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Thank you MGM, I love me some whiny clams.

            When we’re winning…Clams whine. 🙂

            • Eclipse-girl

              clam and wine?
              isn’t that a meal?

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Yes it is. What wine do you serve with clams? White?

              Dammit, now I’m hungry. 🙂

            • Eclipse-girl

              a nice dry white wine would be my choice

      • Juicer77

        Someone is getting KR’d for posting on a message board!

        • ReallyMGM

          They are old, if that makes a difference, and they are anonymous. You can tell the cities and I bet they know who did it.

    • Robert Eckert
      • ReallyMGM

        So they don’t get on Match.com or ChristianSingles!

        • Robert Eckert

          Scientologist Mangle

  • Observer

    Sing out, Captain Miscavige! You think this is bad? There’s more on the way!

    refresh
    .

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Obs, the dog howling is sooo funny. I giggle every time I scroll past. I am still of the mind that someday your shoops should be in a book. 🙂

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m howling like the dog over that shoop.

        • joan nieman

          Very clever and quite humorous!

    • Juicer77

      At first I thought the C I C S bits were chord markers XD

    • chukicita

      I’m just thankful Captain COB hasn’t decided he invented music and released an album.

      • Dr_Orpheus

        That and not making up fictional accounts about his life (he has never clamed to be a Phd, war hero, and Indian blood brother) are the only improvements over his predecessor.

        • chukicita

          Sometimes I wonder why that is.

          I mean, we know he hasn’t accomplished anything himself except wring money out of people and wreck lives. He spent his whole life trying to be Hubbard, yet he hasn’t once offered up any personal achievements or even lies.

          • Eclipse-girl

            LHD is responsible for GAG, GAG II, Idle Morgues and now Idle NarCONons and The Hole

            • chukicita

              Not sure what LHD is. Or if that’s supposed to be a list of “accomplishments.”

            • Eclipse-girl

              Let Him Die

              I first saw Mike Rinder use it

            • joan nieman

              I am off to make more coffee and see if there is anything I can spike it with.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            It’s too bad he doesn’t show off his fake Emmy from the Koppel interview. 🙂

            • Eclipse-girl

              just wait, there will be a fake oscar soon

            • chukicita

              there’s a fake Emmy?! Why did I not know about this?

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I forgot who told the story but apparently when Koppel won an Emmy Miscavige, of course, said it was because of him and had one made. I am pacing up and down waiting on Tony’s new story but I will try to find you the link later. ; )

          • Dr_Orpheus

            I guess he lacks the imagination to come up with anything on his own. That would explain why he sticks to the Hubris playbook on dealing with enemies even when it is clearly counterproductive.

            • chukicita

              I can imagine “maybe I’d have time to accomplish something if I DIDN’T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF” as being an excuse.

  • Narapoid

    Way to rise out of that crap dear Nora! Her dad was another who made their child available to the SO recruiters…what a turd. Born-ins/raised-ins always deserve the most understanding as the Hubbardism BS is used to supplant true critical thinking. I am so glad she found her way out.

    • SarahDB

      Waiting for her to try to fund her “From Cradle to Slave” project again…I’m in!

      • skiesareblue

        ^^^^^^^^

  • Frank Lee

    Did anyone see the latest “America’s Got Talent” episode, were a hypnotist convinces Howie Mandel (who is a germaphobe) to shake his bare hand? The hypnotist could also induce a trance very easily without much effort. Howie had no memory of what had transpired. To me this was the epitome of the cult and a very good demonstration of how the will of the individual is removed to direct their movements towards the goal of the group and perhaps even erase their memory of it. Could anything be more insidious?

    • Jimmy3

      Howie was most likely selling it for the sake of the show. He’s an entertainer.

      • Frank Lee

        If you saw it, you’d understand. Howie is NOT that good of an actor to have pulled this off!

        • Jimmy3

          I will watch it. I think they put those on demand

          • Frank Lee

            I posted the link to that segment above. It’s nice that you and I can now have at least a bit of civil discussion. I hope with time, I’ve earned it.

            • Jimmy3

              I was more than a little unfair to you a few times, but I hope you didn’t take it personally. I just thought you were trolling. Sorry.

              But I’m still not sold that Howie was actually hypnotized there. 😉

      • Juicer77

        Yes, plus he’s done some other stuff (rolling around on the floor with a dog) that leads me to believe he’s getting treatment and improving somewhat. Total guess on my part. I just hope it is helping him.

        • Frank Lee

          This demonstration of hypnosis showed me how beneficial it could be, but also how it could be abused into something completely evil.

          • Mockingbird

            Steve Hassan has stated using hypnosis in this manner violates ethics for him and I agree . It can cause harm and there are laws and precedent showing this . I tend to see it as too dangerous and after my experiences with it in Scientology I will never hypnotize anyone again .

            • ReallyMGM

              Most reputable, licensed clinical psychologists do not use it and think of it as a “parlor trick.”

            • Mockingbird

              A parlor trick is a poor substitute for scientific study but hypnosis has dangers and unreliability associated with it. Transference issues and other difficulties are why abreactive therapy and other hypnotic techniques are abandoned.

              Over and over hypnotism is found too unpredictable and dangerous , hardly a parlor trick in my opinion .

            • ReallyMGM

              Without peer-reviewed, double blind studies and whatever else they do, there is no way to know what is really going on at the time and what can happen at points later on down the road. There are so many other things…

            • Mockingbird

              I strongly agree that hypnotism lacks scientific research and development. It reflects something and the descriptions are metaphors and really long developed guesses what certain behaviors and phenomena reflect .

              I think there is something going on but it is not really understood perfectly . I piss off scientists who largely just deny it as a way to avoid it and hypnotists who claim full validation by their studies .
              As an ex Scientologist I should be used to infuriating lots of people .

            • Frank Lee

              I think most “reputable, licensed clinical psychologists” are taught that it is immoral and inconsistent.

            • ReallyMGM

              Actually it was only briefly mentioned in Psych 101 class, exactly as you said. As much as Hubbard railed against psychology, he was practicing “hack” psychology. He was really messing people up profoundly with no regard to the consequences.

            • Frank Lee

              There may be laws against it, but there are many, many laws that go unenforced. Take our immigration laws for example. If you can control someone’s thinking, who is going to report the “crime”?

            • Mockingbird

              Excellent point . Undue influence is the current legal term and it changes with maddening frequency .

      • Mockingbird

        There are thousands of anecdotes of people acting against their personalities while under hypnosis . There is a wealth of evidence that hypnosis is not a put on or placebo effect including experiments that are reproducible for psychologists particularly regarding the Stroop effect . In my opinion hypnosis has never been as scientifically researched or validated as more mainstream science but it has not been disproven as some skeptics claim .

        Being unproven is not the same as being disproven or debunked . I think hypnosis is part poor man’s psychology of influence and part superstition . Hypnotists and many scientists will hate my answer but I believe it is the unpleasant truth .

        As hypnotism is primarily a collection of metaphors to explain mental and behavioral phenomena it is beneath scientific

        • Jimmy3

          I’m not saying hypnotism isn’t real. I’m saying when an entertainer is hypnotized for a television audience as part of a show he has some incentive to see succeed, it might be part of the show.

          • Mockingbird

            Jimmy , the reason to study hypnosis in Scientology is because Hubbard very clearly studied hypnotism and attempted to covertly persuade people with it . That is completely proven to me by Jon Atack’s articles and by Lermnet.com and most strongly by Hubbard’s own words in the very doctrine used to indoctrinate me in Scientology .

            I have written extensively on this at my blog but will refer you to the best short piece showing Hubbard’s tradition of using hypnosis.
            “Never believe a hypnotist” – an investigation of L. Ron Hubbard’s statements about hypnosis and its relationship to his Dianetics.
            http://www.lermanet.com/exit/parsons.htm

            • Jimmy3

              I’m not sure you’re even reading what I purple monkey dishwasher.

            • Mockingbird

              Uh………

            • ReallyMGM

              Bookmarked. TY!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I remember debating / arguing with still in or indie who appear on this blog on a Jon Atack day. That person claimed they had studied hypnotism and that Jon was lying. I wish you were here then to have debated with that person

            • Mockingbird

              Sorry , to miss that . Jon uses Hubbard’s words to prove many points .

              He has studied influence for at least thirty years. I was fortunate enough to have Jon refer me to both Hubbard’s own words and a book he read and recommended Hypnotism Comes of Age that I found showed many elements of Dianetics and Scientology are hypnotism repackaged .
              Jon also recommended Trances People Live which in the first eighty pages very clearly describes how hypnotism works . The book also has a dangerous therapy we both advise against using but it is excellent at describing trances .

              I have done hundreds of hours of research on hypnosis by now and see Jon Atack’s opinions on this as the most similar to my own . That doesn’t mean we are correct , just very much in agreement.

            • Mockingbird

              Did they claim Jon was lying regarding how hypnotism functions or Hubbard’s use of it ?

              A claim that hypnotism functions differently could be debated , but one that says Hubbard never used it is without a leg to stand on .

            • Eclipse-girl

              IIRC, and this is from probably 6 months or so ago…

              The person was stating that there was absolutely no hypnotism used in the early courses.
              They claimed to have studied hypnotism, and Jon was lying by saying their the first TRs, etc are hypnotic in any way.

            • Mockingbird

              They are completely wrong in my opinion . I found tremendous evidence in Hubbard’s words and what he studied that Dianetics and Scientology have always been built on hypnotic techniques .

              Many others in psychology and hypnotists and NLP practitioners all have found hypnotism throughout Hubbard’s work.

              A few indies cherry pick some Hubbard quotes while denying others and they ignore contradictory statements. Ignoring contradiction is a feature of trance logic -it accompanies deep hypnosis .

              So an indie who is in thrall to Hubbard will not perceive evidence they are hypnotized.

              Their mind pushes out contradiction and even direct evidence and may deny ,dissociate or use psychological defense mechanisms to protect Hubbard and his doctrine . When one is mentally enslaved protecting the master is more important than protecting or asserting your own will . Your mind works more on this basis than any one guarding your own will , identity or knowledge.

              I am very sorry this will upset indies , but they are upset in defense of Hubbard. Not due to intellectual honesty.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I need to find what I was remembering – and there were errors in my memory.
              I did not tangle with the person others did.

              this was the original post that was made

              Why is it that when Hubbard says/said something which supports one’s attack on him, Hubbard is telling the truth? But when he says/said something with which we disagree, then he’s lying? Did he really study hypnotism in Asia? Where in Asia? (Pretty big area.) Who was using/teaching it there at that time? And suddenly, because he said he was, it’s now him telling the truth. And how old could he have been?

              As I’ve stated here before, I actually did study and practice hypnotism in my teens and early 20s. I found nothing of the tech in the 60s and 70s which I could have remotely connected to hypnotism techniques. But it sure makes a great theory. 🙂

              It was from this article of 8 months ago

              http://tonyortega.org/2014/10/25/jon-atack-2/

              Sort by oldest, as I sorted by newest and it took a long time to find this

              There may have been an earlier Atack article that was similar and that is why my memory was wrong.

            • Mockingbird

              Well , thank you for finding this . I would show this person Jon Atack’s articles and Hubbard quotes and my own regarding study tech and Hubbard’s pathological lying and his uses of reversals of truth and contradiction. Pathological lying is different than the lying most of us occasionally do in many ways .

              Pathological liars intentionally will contradict themselves over time to confuse people and get them mentally off balance . In Insidious Enslavement : Study Technology I take on how the sixties tech was packed with covert hypnosis . In Basic Introduction to Hypnosis in Scientology I outline in very basic terms how conversational or covert hypnosis is thought to function by many hypnotists . There are methods Hubbard obviously sought to use and an unbiased examination of his writings shows he knew and extensively studied the practice.

              One thing a pathological liar has trouble hiding is knowledge they exhibit in lies over and over when they later pretend ignorance in later lies. Hubbard revealed enough of the in depth information on hypnosis in his tapes and books to unquestionably show he knew the subject very well.

              One problem I have encountered with indies who claim some knowledge of hypnosis and that it is absent in Scientology is frankly that they embrace pseudoscience and magical thinking and cherry pick ideas to help them and deny ones that are inconvenient.

              They believe the “anti hypnosis” and “waking up sleeping spirits” ideas Hubbard uses . They ignore that Hubbard redefined hypnosis symptoms and cognitive dissonance phenomena into his unproven pseudoscience of barriers to study phenomena and used different terms for the exact same phenomena in auditing .

              In study he pretended students needed to unquestionably accept his ever increasing authority – transference . And in auditing he was covertly evaluating for and via the language and processes using guided imagery and euphoria to also elevate his altitude – again transference.

              In one he uses false study methods( hypnosis) d as a delivery mechanism and in the other he uses hypnosis disguised as therapy . Both are hidden in pseudoscience with prominent loaded language to redefine reality and hypnosis practiced covertly to diminish critical and independent thinking.

              The indies do not study critical thinking as a subject or the logical fallacies Hubbard uses thousands of times to reset their thinking to mirror his own . They commit errors in reason to Hubbard’s benefit habitually.

              When they say ” how can I prove I am not brainwashed ? “.
              I respond by learning the methods of covert hypnosis well enough to discuss the concepts in my articles in detail using the terms from the subject and studying logical fallacies enough to stop constantly using them and to coreectly point out mine instead of using Hubbard’s methods. And to learn Socratic debate well enough to do it without constant personal attacks and resorting to fallacies and distortions of my statements.

              A person can mistake that for a personal attack but it is telling them how to engage in rational examination of and exposure of ideas . That is what scientists and philosophers do.

              Imagine two scientists just using personal attacks and one claiming an unproven authority must be right while the other tries to use logic . They would get nowhere . That is often what debating an indie who follows Hubbard’s attack the attacker and our critics all are suppressive persons with horrific hidden crimes as their only motivation doctrine .

              Jenna ” have you raped a baby” Elfman displays this mindset , reportedly screaming that at protesters in a frothing frenzy . She has Scientology’s certainty critics are baby rapers or equally disgusting criminals and that along with blind devotion to Hubbard replaces objectivity . That must be overcome for reason to be used . Not always easy , trust me .

              By exposing this , over and over I hope some indies will let the possibility that they need to look at the evidence against Hubbard and really personally take responsibility to reduce bias can lead to a new look .

            • Eclipse-girl

              Thank you.
              That was very well written.
              I have been appreciative of your help in fighting the pseudo science BS that keeps creeping into this site.

            • Mockingbird

              Thank you and feel free to read my blog and quote anything you find useful . Pseudoscience pops up everywhere, but reason can prevail.

            • Mockingbird

              I should also say that due to Hubbard’s extreme and self protecting influence whenever dealing with indies attaining Soctatic debate or logical conversation rather than emotion driven conflict is crucial to reason playing any role in communication. I cannot stress that enough .

              Hubbard’s intent was to make slaves who are driven by fallacies , hidden commands , loaded language and strong emotions and never use critical and independent thought regarding him and hus doctrine. They need any help possible to move away from his control. Encourage reason and with compassion discourage unreasoning blind obedience to Hubbard.

              You need to refuse to accept or engage in personal attacks ( ad hominem ) or other fallacies as that derailsany chance to inform them . It is a Herculean challenge .

          • Mockingbird

            Yes , some is fake but Howie Mandel has a decades long reputation as an extreme germophobe . He has reportedly already been hypnotized in the past so the stage hypnotist may have studied that . If his act was not fake he needed to pick a mark that is hypnotizable or he would have flopped immediately. Many hypnotists combine stage magic deception and hypnosis to seem far more potent than they truly are .

            You are wise to be suspicious in any case .

        • kemist

          From the accounts I’ve read about false memory, I think some people are susceptible – suggestible – and others not so much. Vulnerability could also be influenced by one’s circumstances. If for instance you trust someone to help you achieve something, you may be much more “hypnosable” by that person. In other words, you need to “want it” to be hypnotised, with the caveat that desires are not always consciously clear, and can be used against you. That is why IMHO you’ll get people who don’t believe in its power that much : they are unable to experience it for some reason.

          If it worked all the time on everybody, intelligence agencies would not need to use the methods they use to obtain information, and I’m reasonably sure they have tried everything under the sun, including all that ridiculous occult stuff.

          • Eclipse-girl

            remember viewing the short interviews of people Tony had up earlier this year.

            http://tonyortega.org/2015/01/30/another-secret-lives-leak-l-ron-hubbard-enjoyed-humiliating-people-under-hypnosis/

            This man’s brother was very suggestible.

          • Mockingbird

            I tend to see this as very complicated and that it us likely suggestibility varies in a very complex way . What will influence some individuals often may not work on most people usually .
            What works on aperson one day may not on another . There are far too many variables for me to even list in a few thousand words .

            I believe influence exists with great degrees of variability and it has never reached or approached consistent workability for one hundred percent of people. Many would say the majority of history shows no persuasive methods have ever reached the standard of significantly influencing a majority of people.

            Thatis for short term exposure with hypnotic techniques.

            They can very strongly influence a tiny minority in some hypotheses but as the vast majority are not influenced this helps to hide covert influence.

            Think of a hypnotist con man. He tries to fool thousands but only a couple hundred cooperate with him . To outsiders it looks like his victims merely made poor choices , as most people walk away .

            But the victims have euphoria and hallucinations and dissociation and denial and nonrecognition of contradiction and severe diminishment critical and independent thinking regarding the con man – all hypnotic phenomena.

            And all in common .

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Wow, great ideas to moll over.

              Would you think that Hubbard was thus a self-taught such personage, influenced by observing the success of other such pesonages, namely Hubbard’s observing Crowley’s effect on Parsons, as one of Hubbard’s life events that greatly influenced Hubbard’s choice to go that con man route himself?

              That Hubbard wrote “One Was Stubborn”, in 1940, years before Hubbard’s life noticed under Crowley’s spell over Parsons, and the character analysis of “One Was Stubborn” shows Hubbard would characterize Hubbard’s character “George Smiley” with hypnotic and cult man title, shows Hubbard’s understanding of those ideas well before Hubbard’s Crowley pass crossing though.

              For experts experts, the “One Was Stubborn” story must be analyzed and fit into the Hubbard con man progression.

            • Mockingbird

              I have not read that and consider Jon Atack as far more qualified to answer but I see very consistent and extensive evidence Hubbard studied and practiced hypnosis by his teens and admired the “successful actions” of Crowley and Hitler and modeled his extensively plagiarized doctrine on a foundation with their ideas and covert hypnosis underlying all the window dressing. He discussed hypnotism and mind control and warned against others using them in such detail including their use by evil cults that it is obvious he always intended and understood quite well what he was doing – or at least attempting.

              In SOS and DMSMH he warns again and again against others to win trust and hide his own acts with the audacity to expose the con a bit then run it . It confuses people and he knew it .

              I have long felt Hubbard studied earlier cults to aquire their methods and remove superstition and combine them to increase their effectiveness. He never got Scientology to work on a large percentage of people through routine indoctrination as adults , most walk away with no reverence for Hubbard within a short time . He never overcame that , try as he did .

              Children raised in Scientology is another matter . That is worthy of several books on its own .

            • Mockingbird

              To answer your question I do not know who first taught Hubb hypnosis . I suspect much of his study was at least partially independent by examining the diverse sources he sites and simple books like Hypnotism Comes of Age. He certainly did much workwithout acknowledging a teacher . But he may have had instruction. I honestly don’t know.

    • skiesareblue

      Beautiful. It is exactly what I was trying to say, and you’ve nailed it, Frank.

      • Frank Lee

        My ex was raised in the cult. There were many times I woke in the night to find him/her standing over me and feared for my life. (I try to keep my posts gender neutral because I have been a target of Fair Game for many years and don’t want more of it if my identity comes to light.) I now wonder if it was some type of hypnosis attempt. Must have been terribly disappointing to discover I was no easy target! Even more frightening was that this was also done to a ten year old girl, who has many issues now as an adult.

    • Frank Lee

      For Jimmy’s sake, I found the clip for expediency.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9dFLXV9hs0

      • Jimmy3

        He could easily have been acting. But it’s hard to tell. It is interesting that they had to pan away during the actual hypnotism.

        And I’ll bet he went through a dozen bottles of Purell after that.

        • Robert Eckert

          They panned away so that we wouldn’t all become permanently entranced.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      I think a relevant conclusion would be that Hubbard’s “OT” soul status, is just another of history’s spiritual con men’s hypnotiic false promises that “soul travel” and “soul powers” are even real and something attainable.

      That human history is filled with extended hypnotic false claims that scammer mystics/religion-sellers pass on generation to generation.

  • Baby

    For all of us who have been in the Rabbit Hole.. Gone to the Rabbit Hole.. or need to go.. I will drop off my original painting for you.. Please do as you you like with it.. It is yours. Heading off for the morning. Kick Ass.

    Love you Baby xo

    • SarahDB

      Love this Baby!

      • Baby

        Well it is your Sarah.. xo thanks honey..OK off to shower..xo

    • ReallyMGM

      Pretty Pretty!!!

      • Baby

        Thank you Thank you!!! sweet Kitteh.. xo

    • Pepper

      Sweet Baby! Love the colors.

      • joan nieman

        You captured the essence of imagination in beautiful color that sparkles and glows. Good work Baby!

      • Baby

        Oh Pepper.. Thank you.. I have never looked or used a color chart in my life..Just throw all colors together and have some fun! xo

    • April Moonlight

      Absolutely amazing, love this picture! You are so talented. 🙂

      • Baby

        Oh April how sweet of you to say.. I had fun with this one.. It really looks good in person. Just metallic paints on top with glitter. It just pops.

    • Always Amazed

      Great! What media?

      • Baby

        Thanks Amazed.. I threw everything but the kitchen sink on that one..

        Started with Water Color, Acrylics and topped with Oil and Metallic.. Splattered in glitter.

        This is just one of those paintings that I just kept adding and adding.. and Not knowing when to stop. My hubby finally said.. ” Enough..” ha..

        • Always Amazed

          Some days less is NOT more. :)it is so pretty. what a talent you have!

          My daughter is an fine artist, I am the type A sort…analytical.Accountant.

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      beautiful ! love it !

    • seriouslyWTF

      Baby, I love this painting. Alice was my theme before I went through my chemo type treatment. I bought a tie dye Alice tshirt and watched the Disney version movie night before I started treatment. I was going down the rabbit hole for 6 months so I figured who better to start my journey with than Alice.
      Thank you once again and it is nice to see you here!

    • Allie

      It’s just beautiful, Baby. Love the vibrant colors.

  • Tony Williams

    Yet another celebrity escape story; at http://www.gawker.com/why-i-left-scientology-1703997050

  • Eclipse-girl
    • Sergeant Pepper

      2 out of 3, not bad eh? Fixed Thanks EG.

  • Juicer77

    Nora, I am looking forward to the next campaign for your project. I’m sure it will be a success.

  • Miss Tia

    Just got back from my early AM Kent trip and have some time before I have to go to PT. Frustratingly, Poli has only lost 2# in the past 3 1/2 weeks. She’s now at 77#. There’s nothing else that we can do to alter her diet. I was hoping for a lost of at LEAST 4#. To realize this might take several MONTHS is beyond frustrating and disheartening. The surgeon at my vet won’t do it though unless she’s 70#. Anywhere else, who’d do it now, would charge twice as much—Eddie’s dog had this done a couple years ago and it was $3400—he went to one of the other places as his dog weighed too much and is a breed that normally over 70#. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Postulates for Poli’s weight loss most welcome!!!!

    • Observer

      Can you substitute weight loss dog food for her regular food, or have you already?

      • Miss Tia

        They said it would/could create more issues as they’d have to calculate the calories, the fiber content, the nutritional content, etc to ensure she was the getting enough of those things. She might end up having to eat MORE of that—depending what was in it, etc. Right now she gets 1 cup dog chow + 1/4 cup frozen green beans twice a day. She gets 3 chewable cosequin supplements in the afternoon (the doctor wants her to take those and says the calories are negligible) and at bedtime, Pan and her get HALF a small dog milk bone—dr. said the calories there are also negligible. Of course obviously she can drink all the water she wants. Other than that, she gets NOTHING else. Not one morsel of anything else.

        • Observer

          Wow, I had no idea it would be so complicated!

          • Miss Tia

            Me neither!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!! Poor Poli 🙁 Nothing like having the surgery funded and she’s gotta lose weight! FUCK!!!!!!!!!! gotta get to PT!!!

            • Always Amazed

              I hear the green bean diet works. Ask your vet. Good luck

            • Miss Tia

              She was on some green beans. She was on 1 cup dog chow and 1/4 cup green beans. Now she’s starting Science Diet Adult Large Dog Breed Light. I can give green beans as snacks as I wish and if she seems peckish. She hasn’t seemed peckish really.

          • Miss Tia

            When I got home from PT (I saw the BLIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! driving home!!!) I called the vet to ask “Dude, the fuck?” <–actual quote. After a discussion there and figuring out stuff, they called me back and her food has been changed. She's starting Science Diet Adult Large Breed Light tonight. 1 1/4 cups twice a day. FINGERS CROSSED!!

        • aquaclara

          Does she like to swim or wade in the water?

          • Miss Tia

            There is a dog park in Stow that has a lake. BUT she’s never been there, I dunno if she would swim and I DID mention it today to the vet actually cuz they asked me how Eddie’s been with this (he always wants to give them treats and I won’t let him cuz it’ll affect their diet) and I mentioned how Eddie think Poli should go to the dog park to try swimming and I was told under no circumstance to do that. If I wanted to go and get her acupuncture somewhere for pain (they use to do that, but that doctor left to a practice closer to her home) that’d be fine OR to a VET that did water therapy (there is a place that does that) but not at the dog park where she’d unleashed, exposed to other dogs probably running into her, the water is cold, etc and the risk of FULLY tearing her tendon/causing further damage is too great. That did make sense.

            Excellent suggestion though!! If there was a heated pool with no other dogs, that’d be great—well if she would swim!! I dunno if she would or not, I have no idea. I know Pan would.

            • aquaclara

              Your vet is of course totally right– going to the dog park would NOT be good. There are some dog water therapy places friends of mine have used, but honestly, They are pricey. I’m not sure I could swing that kind of money as much as I love my fur baby.

              I was just thinking if you had a swimmy kind of dog (Mine is half lab, but he has 100% of the swimmy gene), and if there were a clean creek or lake somewhere….). He LOVES to swim.

              The one thing about water is that it takes the pressure off while burning calories. I know It can be hard to find a place they can swim in peace in clean water.

              Doesn’t sound like an option here for your baby. Sorry. Good luck!

        • ReallyMGM

          I was going to suggest the green bean diet. Have you checked the thyroid to see if it is low? It can really affect weight loss in dogs (and humans).

          • Miss Tia

            I answered that on another post of yours—actually, I tell you about Pan. Poli’s thyroid is fine.

    • Eclipse-girl

      sending those thought to Poli and to you.

    • Juicer77

      She will get there. It’s extra tough when there are physical limitations but she can do it!!

      • Miss Tia

        VERY extra tough!! After a discussion her food has been changed. She’s starting Science Diet Adult Large Breed Light, 2 1/2 cups TOTAL every day. Thanks for encouragement!!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      You need anything, you know the number, call anytime. Sending love to you and Poli. xoxox

      • Eclipse-girl

        include me in that offer, tia

        • Miss Tia

          Thanks E-girl! ♥

      • Miss Tia

        Since there’s a new post, I’ll blather to you here….if someone else sees this, I don’t mind…..

        You sent a text, I haven’t read it—they cost moolah to read. Was out picking cherries, then the rain started and I was toad taxi-ing and this idiot gave her umbrella to a lady with 3 kids and a stroller today, so I got soaked toad taxi-ing. I dunno how/why people can’t check the weather before they take a bus somewhere. They had a discussion about Poli’s food and figured out the math, etc and I had to go get her Science Diet Adult Large Breed Light (Ka-ching 🙁 ) and now starting tonight she will get 1 1/4 c. of THAT a day (Pan too cuz she’s a fat fuck and they’re like little kids and both must have the EXACT SAME THING!!) So I’m driving home from Pet Supplies Plus and it’s starting to sprinkle and I’m at a light by Acme and a woman with 3 kids and a stroller gets off the city bus I’m behind and they’re going into Acme (grocery store). Knowing damn well it would be pouring when they got out and seeing that she had no umbrella and the kids were NOT in rain gear, etc I yelled out my window that it was gonna be raining by the time she got out of the store and was waiting for another bus, and I handed her my big golf umbrella (I am insane). She did thank me profusely. I did wanna ask why she didn’t check the weather but thought better of that cuz perhaps it wouldn’t have made a difference if they didn’t have an umbrella, rain wear, etc…..

        Coming home from PT, I SAW THE BLIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dumb ass me —on a roll today!!!—did NOT have my camera with me because 1) storms were approaching and I don’t like to take my camera out in the rain and 2) I knew the blimp was in another city and was suppose to travel to Columbus. But there it was, traveling ‘home’. BLIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes, I did of course yell that repeatedly. I noticed other cars around me were paying more attention to the sky than the road—you learn how to do that around here–blimp driving! 🙂

        ALMOST done with PT but she thinks with my back problems and how much it’s improved—really has—and with my senile osteoporosis—-I should try to find a place to use equipment like that and no, she wasn’t trying to sell memberships to there…..I do know I notice more of a difference with the machines than the other things…..now here’s some mirth and merriment…..so i figured i’d call akron’s Y to ask how much they cost, right? think they wouldn’t be that much….but FIRST i called the vet to ask them, PLEASE fucking figure something out about poli’s weight—that’s when the science diet got planned, well they called me back, so i waited to call the Y…..when i was on the phone with the vet—when they called me back, i noticed creeper peeper had just arrived over there….when i’m on the phone i usually stand in the window next to my computer as there’s better reception and i’m a cat who likes to watch the birds….i know my voice carries….i noticed he opened the side van door and SAT THERE STARING AT MY HOUSE while i’m on the phone discussing science diet with the doctor!! then i call the Y…..their fee was just a couple dollars less than the natatorium (where the PT place is located at, inside the nat) AND you have to pay for parking….knowing that creeper peeper was listening to me, i said, oh yeah, nevermind anyway cuz you people will hire massage therapists with 3 gross sexual imposition convictions and the natatorium is VERY big on screening for sexual perverts and i hung up….creeper peeper SLAMMED the van door shut, got in the driver door and left!! HAHAHAHHAHA!! and yes, he DID work at the YMCA a few years ago–for just 1 year—as a massage therapist (he is licensed and how/why i have no idea, no standards?) and this was AFTER his 3 gross sexual imposition convictions and his public indecency conviction….that was amusing—to me anyway….listen in to me and i’ll passive aggressively assure that YOU KNOW I KNOW!!! 😀 i’m bad…don’t care….

        i’m gonna ask the PT how i can ghetto rig a weight machine…..she’s probably ask if i’d do that in the street….sure, why not? 🙂

        how’s your baby doing? feeling better?? nail problems hurt!!!! see how i’ll blather?! HAH!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          No worries about the text, just a note to let you know about the big news.

          That was sweet of you to give her your umbrella. 🙂 But yeah, you did need that. LOL Hope the new food helps Poli. xoxoxo

          Email if you need anything. ; )

          • Miss Tia

            Yeah, I need an umbrella!!! HAH!!! I guess I need to start collecting cheap umbrellas to have on hand now. In the winter I always have lots of cheap stretch gloves in the van to hand out to kids (or adults) I see who aren’t wearing gloves when it’s really cold out. Never thought about umbrellas in the rain though.

            That food better help, it’s expensive as fuck! $45 for 33#!! And I’m use to paying like $22 for 55# of dog chow!! Price and poundage has gotten switched!! EGADS! Damn dogs.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              My little one is doing good. Cost me $150 for the visit but he’s better now. Acting up and all. LOL

            • Miss Tia

              Well depending how much the meds were, what they did, etc. that’s about average. Several times Pan had split nails (happened during winters, vet said I couldn’t do anything to prevent it) and I had to put booties on her (that went over like a lead balloon). One of her nails had to be surgical removed it was split so far up. That was around $190 IIRC, they obviously had to knock her out. Damn dogs!!!!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Yep, my little one has to be knocked out too. I think that’s probably the most expensive part of it, that sedation is pricey….damn! I am just glad the vet removed the nail so I don’t have to worry about it happening again.

    • ReallyMGM

      What does she have to have done? Did you see my question about thyroid function below? It is more common in older dogs of some breeds and mixes. The meds for it are very cheap, like pennies. One of mine had it and the pounds melted off.

      • Observer

        She’s got a torn tendon

        • ReallyMGM

          Thanks. I am concerned because a 70# dog should be losing weight at that amount. My 20# dogs don’t eat much less and maintain the same weight consistently. I know she wants to get that fixed ASAP and it’s frustrating to have to wait. I showed dogs for 30 years so have either seen or picked it all up off the floor now. :))

          • Observer

            She has to be kept quiet to prevent it getting worse, and the lack of activity is hindering her weight loss. 🙁

            • ReallyMGM

              Yeah, I know. I did AKC agility and had plenty of friend’s dogs have the same injury. The handlers too.

          • Miss Tia

            VERY frustrating to wait!! Or should I say ‘weight’?

          • Miss Tia

            my dog Pan—if she hasn’t lost ANY weight when I take her back in a few weeks to check—SHE will get her thyroid tested….last time I had her in last year she was 76# and when I had her in a few weeks ago she was 85#!!!! She’s, of course, on the same diet as Poli…..i hope Pan loses some weight!!!!

            • ReallyMGM

              What kind of dogs are they? (love dogs!)

            • Miss Tia

              File photo of them from a few years ago. Poli is in the back. Poli is a boxer. Pan is 70% Parson Russell Terrier, 20% Rottweiler and 10% Aussie. I got doggie DNA done when I got her. She has the terrier silhouette, the rottie colorings (what a date there eh?) and she TOTALLY is obsessed with HERDING. She must herd certain cats–just a couple—to certain places every night at bedtime.

            • ReallyMGM

              They are really cute! My brother has a boxer. Buddy is 14 years old. I know he has to be the oldest boxer in the world! He is so grey faced now. I was trial secretary for the area herding trial and watched quite a bit of it. Saw a few Rotties, quite a few Aussies. Mostly Border Collies, of course. It was fun to watch.

    • ReallyMGM

      Wishing the best for Poli’s weight loss and recovery. Sounds like you have a really good vet. Prices are outrageous now, but the success rate has grown along with it. She will do great. {{hugs}} to you both.

      • Miss Tia

        Yeah, it’s ridiculous the same surgery would cost $3400 somewhere else around here—though technically if I had that much money they’d do it probably tomorrow, no weight requirement necessary. My vet has always been reasonably priced and I think they’re still one of the cheapest vets in the area for most things. Thanks ReallyMGM!

    • seriouslyWTF

      My good dog was 3500.00 each for his back legs. I think the cost is dependent upon the type of surgery. My dog’s regular vet told me he could do the “old” for around 1000 or so, but it is not as effective. He referred us to a specialist who does the “new” way which involves metal plates. We looked into both and opted for the new way. The vet that did the surgery was “one of the first veterinary surgeons on the east coast to be licensed to perform the Tibial Plateau Leveling Osteotomy technique for ligament reconstruction of the knee in dogs. In 2001, she was one of the first surgeons to be certified to teach this technique and has since instructed the majority of the certification courses offered in the United States and Europe”. Anyway, that was 5yrs ago and he is doing great.
      Regardless of which type you choose, I’m sure it will provide some relief. Wishing you and Poli all the best.

      • daisy

        YET another reason to love this site. They love animals. I adopt old sick ones that might not get adopted They , my sick mother and learning what a hateful crime syndicate is scientology is. DAVID M. needs to be in jail with the death penalty looming

        • daisy

          I forgot to say, give life purpose. I hope to be proactive about getting rid of this cult but there is not a church where I can picket so encouraging all to tell their stories as above and letting them know that even Never-in sympathize send love and encouragement is about as best as I can do right now. I do hope sooon I will be able to put my 2cents in getting rid of this world scourge how they exist today. Strenght to all on the front line of this battle and those who have PTSD

          • jane456

            There is someone in Moreno Valley, California that is looking for homes for 11 cats that he rescued near his home and spayed and neutered. All but 3 socialized. He is losing his home so the cats will be destroyed if he can’t find homes for them in the next few weeks. I hate these stories, but thought I would put it out there for any animal lovers who might be able to help. If you contact me I will e-mail you his information. He is willing to deliver them anywhere in the United States, he says.

            • daisy

              SO sorry Jane. I live in Ontario. Otherwise could have taken1

      • Miss Tia

        I don’t think anyone does that kind of surgery around here, of course if they did, it would be around the price you paid. I know Eddie’s dog Hammie got his tendon repair done at Metro (in Copley) and that was $3400 but there was no metal plates involved.

        • seriouslyWTF

          Yes, we were lucky that the specialist moved way out west. It was expensive but he is my puddin. Edited to add… Paid for by visa and MasterCard.

  • skiesareblue

    Good morning Bunkeroos.

    Yes, Nora is a vibrant and gifted speaker! Much laughter, but also tears. The trailer for her film project is stunning, and here’s hoping funding will be successful the second time around. This film needs to be made!

    Yesterday was amazing. We were able to watch the Scientology initiation process and how the mind control
    starts right from the beginning. It was fascinating to watch the demonstration. As Chris Shelton gave the introductory lesson to a volunteer, Steve Hassan was explaining to the audience exactly what was happening. A state of confusion is created right off the bat, contradictions are presented and the intelligent mind becomes CURIOUS, and says “let’s go there”. (Mockingbird says on his blog that he felt a shift in his mind, and I always found this very interesting.). It is the start of forfeiting your critical thinking. Hubbard was a hypnotist, having studied it for years, and knew exactly how to induce a slight trance without a person being aware of it. Steve Hassan is just brilliant, and his book “Combatting Mind Control” is a must read. What impressed me most, is how SUBTLE this process is. Very creepy.

    When the Conference Video comes out, this portion of the film will be a valuable source of information both to ex-Sci’s, and as a warning to anyone considering to join this horrible sadistic cult.

    Scientology is SO much worse than I ever imagined.

    • Allie

      Thanks for the recap, Skies. I would think that watching the demo would indeed be eye-opening.
      From hearing descriptions about it, it’s hard to imagine what it would be like. But having Steve describe what was happening, that would be amazing. So glad you are at the conference and thanks for sharing it with us.

  • Ben Franklin

    Nora Crest story on Liberation Frequency #12: Growing Up Scientology – From Cradle to Slave

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afc_fPva0Os

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Excellent interview. I like that the host just let Nora talk and didn’t interrupt her. Thanks for the link Ben.

  • $cnMonkeyNut$

    Hi all-sorry for being O/T, was wondering if any Brit Bunkerites were going to Going Clear in London tonight?

    (ETA: Apart from just little ol’ me that is!)

    • aquaclara

      go, go, go!!! Bring back stories, pleeeeze!

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Will do 🙂

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am pretty sure both Mark and Andrea are going. I would think Media_Lush couldn’t stay away either

      Do you have your tickets for the book session with John Sweeney?

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Yes (booked that at the same time as the Going Clear tickets) And I’ve ordered my physical copies of John and Tony’s books so I can be a total fanboi and that them signed (as it’s quite difficult to sign a kindle 🙂 )

  • Science Doc

    OT Narconon. I drove past Narconon Warner Springs/Sunshine Summit a few times this week. The vehicle count in the mid day continues to be about 15 on average, stable for a year. On one ocassion a dozen or so people were moving about outside in the mid afternoon, one clearly doing maintenance work. I regard the vehicles as being proxies for senior staff with the exception of a couple of white vans that are parked there overnight.

    • Jimmy3

      I’ve got a bad feeling about those white vans.

      • ze moo

        It all depends on if the emergency kit contains fix a flat, or duct tape and chloroform.

      • Don’t get too close – they might try to sell you junk speakers!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam

        • Jimmy3

          Conning people into paying way too much for a system that doesn’t work as advertised… That sounds familiar. I knew those white vans were up to no good.

      • Robert Hammond

        Yeah. You should have a bad feeling about those vans. Here’s a recent Narconon referral
        (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z29nAyq3JcI

    • California licenses them for 15 staff and 30 residents. (I’m not sure if that’s 15 staff present, or overall.)

      California Department of Health Care Services license/certification list, February 2015.

      • Science Doc

        It also lists Narconon JBL Ranch as having capacity for 6 clients and 8 total. JBL is a mile or two down the road toward Temecula. By chance I once saw one of the vans move between JBL and the main campus, so I was pretty sure it was part of the operation. Most of the vehicles are gone at night, so I count 10 or 12 senior staff who live off site and are presumably not part of the cap. Given the two sites I think the maximum count is as follows: 21 clients. Up to 17 resident staff, many of the graduates of the program. 12 senior staff residing off site.

        • In the smaller places, I’m sure that they play very fast and loose with their numbers: Which people are assigned to which location, staff vs. students, housing people off-site, etc.

          I noticed that in the (failed) Milton Ontario Narconon, they were talking about 10 people when the group home regs clearly limit them to 8.

          • Science Doc

            My thought too, although housing for lower conditions has also crossed my mind.

            • It’s possible that they use the Ranch location to park the people who spend a few days going cold turkey, except two staff seems low for that.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              What a horrible, shitty way to detox. SMH 🙁

    • Juicer77

      Haven’t checked there lately but did you post this at the Tipping Point?

      • Science Doc

        I can only follow so many websites, so no, I’ve never posted over there. I know that they are working on getting the 911 class there. I’d like to go over those if they have been posted.

        • I posted a snapshot of this.

          • Juicer77

            Thx.

          • Science Doc

            Good. If anyone over there wants me to take a look at anything I’d be happy to oblige. I drive past the place about 10 times a month.

    • Thanks for the report. The local Sheriff’s office for that facility are FOIA tyrants!

  • Eclipse-girl

    I want to send Nora and her family the best wishes for their lives.

  • Robert Hammond

    Regarding hypnosis. Derek Brown has many excellent videos on YouTube demonstrating how easy it is to hypnotize people and get them to do things against their will, including making people have “religious” experiences.

    Here is how he converts an atheist: (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51B8MzcxOX0

    • Libertylover

      Great video, I’ve showed it to a few people. Different reactions, it’s always amazing to see how people come up with their own stories to explain what they don’t want to see.

      • Robert Hammond

        Yes. Derren Brown has quite a few excellent videos on mind control and hypnosis. Many of his demonstrations confound the average person’s belief systems. Most of us have preconceptions that are difficult to overcome. But it is interesting to see how much people can change their beliefs and attitudes under the right conditions.

        • Libertylover

          I always eagerly await his new shows and watch them as soon as they come out.
          He is very popular in UK. He has tried to do some shows in the US but they have fell flat as he doesn’t seem to understand the US very well. I always hope he will bring his live show to the US, maybe a few performances in NY but I think he has settled in as being UK only.
          He is a very talented artist too, some great paintings.

          • Draco

            You should give a rabbit hole alert with this one…I googled Derren Brown Art and away I went for a while 😀
            This is something I love about this blog – I learn new stuff every day. Thanks Liberty Lover and Robert Hammond. Very interesting rabbit hole that was…

            • Libertylover

              He did a show once featuring his paintings, it might be on youtube. I like to do portraits but I’m in awe of how he puts personality in his images. Here’s one he did of Cruise a while ago, not his best but I like his take on TC

            • Draco

              I saw the blog he did on his portrait of Michael Sheen. His painting is amazing. I will try and find more of his stuff. Very talented and interesting person.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    Thank you Nora for telling us your story and thanks Jonny for this write up. Now I ant to hear all about it. So interesting a life and here she is able and willing to tell us. Kudos Nora.

    • Juicer77

      It takes a lot of moxy to go public with this stuff. She’s a tough cookie.

  • Good Morning Bunker. Thank you to Johnny for this wonderful article about me. It was a day of raw emotions for me on stage. I spoke and then showed the video. Seeing my son on a large screen saluting and hearing him recite the code of a Sea Org Member echoing on the loud speakers broke me. I cried. And it was, as some women would say, an “ugly” cry. It was raw and most definitely unplanned. It was a good thing though. I needed to let it out. These last three days, meeting all these people, listening to them speak on stage, chatting with them over a meal or drink has been beyond helpful. I have spent the last 13 years figuring all this out on my own. Trying desperately to unravel and untangle myself from the abyss of lies. These last three days have been equal to years of therapy for me. Truth is pouring out of this conference like a NYC fire hydrant on a hot summer day. I am honored to be featured here on Tony’s remarkable blog. And to be one voice speaking for the far too many that were enslaved by Scientology because we had the audacity to be born. Thank you so much to all of you on here who keep this fire burning bright and never let anyone forget that this battle, while we are gaining speed and power, is not over. Thank you to everyone I have met here in Toronto. Your friendship and love has meant the world.

    • Juicer77

      An ugly, cleansing, years-in-the-making cry. I bet you slept the sleep of the just last night, as least I hope so. So proud of you and your strength.

    • Robert Hammond

      Thank you Nora. Your courage and integrity give hope and strength to many. I look forward to your film being completed. You are beautiful and awesome. Keep up the good work. You make a difference.

      • joan nieman

        A pleasure to have you here Nora and thank you for telling us your story.

    • Eclipse-girl

      (((HUGS)))

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Ditto, and thankyou Jonny Jacobsen.

      Smart outsiders smart media willing to listen to the complexities, so helpful.

      Scientology needs careful media always listening in detail, it’s not easy, thankyou so much Jonny!

    • Frank Lee

      Nora, welcome back to humanity, may your son join you soon. Know that your strength and abilities lie within him and he will find them with time. May your family experience true clarity, of mind, body, soul, and spirit that you so rightfully deserve.

      • The trailer we made. My son has never been in the Sea Org and he didn’t know what he was reciting for the audio. He is 9 years old. He was doing a film for us. He knows nothing of Scientology other than I was in it and it was very bad. I will be educating him about it for sure over his life so he knows the truth but rest assured he is safe at home with me and my family and no where near this cult.

        • Juicer77

          This ^^

        • Frank Lee

          Good to know! Your son is blessed to have such insight to guide him. Don’t blame your father, he likely didn’t truly understand his own actions. You were lucky not to be fully immersed and were able to observe outside life as well. My ex didn’t get that, and all my attempts to bring to light what is considered “normal”, by society, simply never penetrated the cult influence, no amount of therapy could either. One therapist declared him/her “possibly dangerous”, along with narcissistic and sociopathic. I didn’t understand the cult until years later (I had been deceived into believing the family was “no longer involved.”), and I wasn’t sure the ex understood his/her own actions, or if they were very mentally ill. I told a therapist if the spouse was mentally ill, I would stand by them, monitor meds, and help them through it, but if they were just truly evil, we were done. In the end evil won and never gave in. Now I am on a mission, not to just educate our two children, but anyone else willing to listen.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Good to hear!

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Here’s to many future years of your inspiring infectious honesty, so many many future Sea Orgers open their mouths and tell ongoing history!

          • ze moo

            If only ‘infectious honesty’ could go to an airborne vector.

        • Pepper

          Hi Nora, our children are so precious and they need us to look out for them. You’re a great Mom.

        • lmnop

          very happy to hear your son has not experienced scientology Nora, looking forward to the day your project from Cradle to Slave gets produced and I think the title is PERFECT! 🙂

    • ReallyMGM

      Thank you Nora for sharing your story with us. I admire your bravery in standing up to this evil organization with such honesty and conviction. The trailer to your film is terrific, and I look forward to seeing it in its completed form. The child’s perspective is the most morally repugnant to me and think could be the thing that could bring down this evil empire. I checked out your website this morning and enjoyed reading the other stuff, too. The “Caitlyn” story was very thought provoking and enjoyed the sports stuff although I only spectate. Again, thanks. :))

    • aquaclara

      Buddha, you’ve got me tearing up. You are simply amazing. So proud of you for all you’re doing to help others recover while finding out where your footsteps are headed, too.
      It’s gonna be a beautiful day. *sniff, sniff*
      And we get to do this again when the videos come out, you know. Rest up. There is more to this parade yet.

    • Eileen

      That kind of crying is important, and speaks of things that words could never express.

    • 0tessa

      All my sympathy. Wishing you all the best.

    • Nothing better than an ugly cry for releasing all the awful. You’re making a difference out there.

    • Re-Oriented

      Congrats, Nora on getting up there and telling your story!

    • Mockingbird

      Thank you for speaking out. The truth ultimately will undo Hubbard’s house of lies and the courage to speak out will spread the truth , sadly it doesn’t reveal itself . Someone must work and sacrifice to bring it forward .

    • richelieu jr

      Wow, Nora, I am so movespd by your experience.

      The thing is, everyone sharing thier stories, big and small, makes us all stronger, better-informed, less alone.

      People need to understand that Scientology’s victims are not some abstract perce tage of people “suffering”, but real, thinking, feeling individuals and families, tonrn apart, with raw, ragged wounds and no generally accepted plan for healing (though Jefferson Hawkins, Jon Atack, and others, have been working tirelessly in this regard)… What is worse, these poor people have been conditioned to run from the very people who coule help temQ-psychologists, psychiatrists and the mental heath ans cocizl service industries. It is like battered women being trained like Pavlov’s dogs to fear shelters…

      My heart gors out to you, Nora, and to those like you. We all need a good, ugly cry, and thenbitch up our trousers and go out to strangle the ugly hydra-headed life-destroyer that is the Criminal Organization Curently Operating Under the Name of The Church of Scientology (amongst other aliases)

    • David Francis

      Pardon my directness but observing you and listening to you leads to my feeling that you are Very sexy. Beauty and intelligence. If you ever come to St. Louis, I’m coming to see you (not in a stalker way).

  • Richard Grant

    This is really big news about Tony and TheLip.tv. They’re lucky to land him, and this looks like a place where he can make a real impact. Best wishes to all parties involved!

    • Eclipse-girl

      he made a great impact at Raw Story.
      I can’t imagine him not having an impact at The Lip

      • Juicer77

        They have many shows, some of which require some housekeeping. Crime Time is awesome as well, really gives different viewpoints that make you think deeper about law issues. I have every expectation that Tony will sharpen the whole channel and bring some innovative ideas.

        • Libertylover

          Media Mayhem is great, I tried watching another guy, Stone something, but it was too conspiracy laden for my taste. Overall a great channel with much more info you just don’t get in mainstream news these days.

          • Jack99

            That’s Oliver Stone’s son, I believe. Of course it’s going to be conspiracy laden.

          • I have hopes that our proprietor will begin cleaning out some of the nuttier offerings Lip has used to fill out its lineup. More Allison Hope Weiner!

    • Frank Lee

      I too would like to congratulate Tony! But, I wonder how it’s going to effect his devotion to the Bunker, not to be selfish …..

      • gtsix

        Well, if his being editor of Raw Story and yet attending a convention and live blogging it while comment reading on his blogging all while he is on a book tour are any indication, I am guessing he’s got it covered. Just a guess, mind you.

        • Always Amazed

          Sleep is overated

        • Robert Eckert

          All while interviewing loved ones of the recently deceased (always a delicate matter) to give us a breaking story.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Raw story did not effect his devotion to us

  • Robert Hammond

    Thanks for Jon Atack and Steve Hassan’s insights on mind control and hypnosis.

    What is the difference between hypnosis and organized religion? Check out this short video: (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zsAG4I810U

    • Libertylover

      Anyone know when is Louis’ Scientology documentary is being released?

      • I’m sure OSA Int has a good idea of when.

        • Libertylover

          I somehow think they don’t know what to think of him and his style, they are planning on making a counter doc. but they might actually like his video somewhat while others will be horrified.

          • Robert Hammond

            Theroux has a much more laid-back style of documentary filmmaking. Not so confrontational as he just asks a few questions lets people speak for themselves. Definitely looking forward to his take on the Co$

      • Robert Eckert

        Sometime in the fall, probably. Tony had some things to say about it at the Chicago book event: apparently they are hiring some actors to do dramatic re-enactments, which is not Theroux’s usual style (but he may simply not have been able to “embed” within Scientology, as he could do even with Westboro), and Marty was filming a scene in an LA studio when he took the trip that resulted in the great “LAX ambush” video.

    • Mockingbird

      Oh boy .

  • Juicer77

    OOOOOOOOH I just thought of something. Tony is precise about not mixing his “real” job with his $ci reporting, but… I would LOVE to see Mark Bunker’s footage put together on LipTV into a multi-episode format as he’s been discussing. It’s a hot topic right now and the PERFECT format.

  • Vaquera

    By far the best picture from yesterday….Jamie and Gerry. f5

    • Juicer77

      That’s eerie. And funny!

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      The words say it all. Bravo Gerry! I’d like to walk in downtown CW with that shirt. I’d wear it backwards so those following can read it.

      • A bird in the chimney

        Print it on both sides!

  • Richard Grant

    Way off-topic but … the U.S. Supreme Court just ruled 6-3 in favor of allowing federal subsidies for the Affordable Care Act. Chief Justice Roberts wrote the majority opinion. This is big, and rather surprising.

    • Science Doc

      Roberts backed it last time, too. Huge story.

      • Richard Grant

        Check out Tony’s tweet on this subject (in the upper left of this page). Witty and astute as ever.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Yea. The pretty easy popular worse comparison legacy label the Supreme judges would have gotten was the murderers label, if the Supremes had voted to tank ACA, due to the life-plug unplugging that would have been the result, so it was obviously not serious that ACA could ethically be overruled, not now, thankfully.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Great tweet!

        • Robert Eckert

          To preserve it for later readers before it sinks down the feed:

          Tony Ortega ‏@TonyOrtega94 3h3 hours ago

          For conservatives, it’s a win-win. They get to keep their health care AND bitch and moan about Obama and that traitor, dread pirate Roberts

          RETWEETS4

          FAVORITES6

          7:25 AM – 25 Jun 2015

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Thanks.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Sort of surprising but what would have happened had they not upheld it?

      100s of thousands of people would lose their insurance.
      Specific Governors woud do nothing – Walker (Wis) said just that yesterday.

      The ideal fix would have been a single payer health care system. How some people would howl at that fix.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Millions. 8 million Americans insured through the federal marketplace and 87% of them receiving subsidies – I think the average subsidy is $3,000 – $5,000, I have heard both figures.

  • aquaclara

    “And then my father pimped me out to recruiters at PAC..”
    This is why Scientology must end soon. FBI, where are you when we need you? Congress? IRS? It’s time to step in and protect kids so no more go through what Nora and far too many others have had to experience.

  • Robert Hammond

    New Chris Shelton critical thinking video up: (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9RHdjs-vok

    • Holy moly! He’s been promoted!

      • Robert Hammond

        Stupid autocorrect! I changed it back from “Christ” to Chris. That would be quite a promotion.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          LOL.

          Chris’ point immediately reminded me of Scientology’s Hubbard’s final song on the road to Freedom Hubbard record, “Thankyou for Listening” song, Hubbard says “,,,I only give them fact, if they believe quite otherwise it still will have impact….”

          Hubbard, impacting the world….good luck today.

          Hubbard at least admitted he failed, and that is news, the Hubbard failure admission, needs spreading more.

          • Robert Hammond

            Good point, Chuck. Hubbard’s failure is indeed a fact.

  • Sebastian L. Jackson

    Off-Topic: NBC 5 in Chicago reported last night that Kerri Rivera, who is a high-ranking member of the Genesis II Church and promotes bleach enemas as a cure for autism, has been banned from promoting her cure in Illinois: http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/illinois-attorney-general-lisa-madigan-miracle-mineral-solution-autism-309703521.html

    Investigators from the state attorney general’s office attended Rivera’s talk at the Autism One conference last month and served her with a subpoena calling for her to corroborate her claims. She was forced to sign an “assurance of voluntary compliance” accepting that, in the absence of proof, she can no longer promote her “services” in Illinois. It’s the probable reason why her website briefly went offline earlier this month.

    This means Kerri will most likely stop speaking at Autism One. But what the report only briefly touched on is that now that Kerri has restarted her website, the state attorney general believes she is in violation of the assurance by offering online consultations to Illinois residents. Meaning that the state attorney general can move to prosecute Kerri or shut down the website permanently.

    Besides Kerri’s troubles, the Genesis II Church’s operations are facing criminal investigations in Ireland, Great Britain, and eastern Europe. But MMS still has a stronger foothold in Central America, where the church is based. Genesis II Church leader Mark Grenon recently announced that he is moving to Ecuador and implied he wants to take advantage of the country’s radical asylum laws.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      I wonder why Scientology lawyers like Moxon don’t jump to Kerri’s defense, freely, like in the past Scientology lawyers took opportunities to protect other “new religions” religious rights to do their practices?

      I wonder what OSA lawyer Moxon says about this case.

      Would be an interesting question to put to Moxon, as Moxon has defended other newish religion’s members religious rights when it suited Scientology’s own protection.

      • ze moo

        The ‘practicing medicine’ thing is the Gene 2 ‘chirches’ downfall. Event the clams can see that is very dangerous.

  • Vaquera

    Vaquera is getting a late start today. Can you blame me? After last night’s programming, Skies, Nina and I gathered in and then closed the bar with Jonny, Steve C, Chris Shelton, Nora, Gerry and Jamie. I’m a TOTAL fan girl and not ashamed to admit it.

    At the end of each day, I think, “What else could they possibly present?” I realize there are layers to this onion called Scientology, but to hear it from the experts, the survivors and a relative is, well…damn, it’s history in the making.

    Yesterday’s presentations rocked. Bravo and applause to everyone who graced the stage and shared their stories.

    To Nora: I was dead serious……a one woman show IS in your future.
    To Jamie: You owned the stage. I can’t wait to see where your talents take you.

    • Jimmy3

      Thank you for the updates. You’ve been a great correspondent. I nominate you for Senior Getting Clear Correspondent.

      • Vaquera

        J3, as a never-in, I do not have depth of understanding shared by our brave Bunker ex-perts (see what i did there?), nor do I possess the gift of language to make the thoughtful, sage remarks that so many of our commenters express. What I can do (and enjoy doing) is to try and get across the flavor and spices of this amazing event.

        Also, a big shout out to all of the Bunker peeps I have met in the past two weeks or so. Everyone has such a distinct and fun personality, but the common denominator I’ve made note of is the generosity of heart each if you project. It’s been an honor to meet each of you and I can’t wait to add more faces to the screen names at our proprietor’s Boston book event.

        • Jimmy3

          I would like to meet you some day. As soon as they take this ankle bracelet off, I’m there.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Bahahaha!!

            • Jimmy3

              That’s from my upcoming book, Chatting With Babes Online All Day: What and What Not to Say

            • ReallyMGM

              Here is something creepy. I did a search and found 4 more sites. Are there that many looking for dates? I think this is a new way to get people to sign up.

            • Jimmy3

              I don’t know, but someone said they all use the same database. So it’s the same people across multiple dating sites.

            • ReallyMGM

              Maybe we should turn this over to the guys at MTV’s Catfish show. I bet these people are all fake profiles. Probably just a few people running many accounts. :))

            • Sibs

              Did you ever watch Parks and Rec? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nba_gI1xBH8

          • Vaquera

            Well then, I guess I’ll have to come to you, honey.

            • ReallyMGM

              The Bunker is Jimmy’s Match.com

            • Jimmy3

              No it’s not. It’s my ChristianMingle.com

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              SPMingle? 😀

            • ReallyMGM

              Guess what? Scientology has an online dating site. http://www.freespiritsingles.com I didn’t think they were allowed on a computer.

            • Jimmy3

              Free Spirit Singles: Meet that very special person you’ll spend the rest of your life disconnected from. Sign up today!

            • ReallyMGM

              They need to set people up with all the lives they will have for a billion years.
              Honestly, you would have to be a fool to log into their site. I can’t imagine what they could do with chat files they monitored on it, because you know they do.

            • SFFrog

              To be really useful, the site should let you enter all the people you were in past lives both to improve compatibility calculations and to make sure it doesn’t set up two people who both think they were Jesus.

            • SFFrog

              Are you required to fill out a KR after each date?

            • Jimmy3

              You’re required to bring a notebook and pen to write down their overts throughout the date. And yes, a full KR is mandatory.

            • Vaquera

              Hey, Jonny is speaking. The focused crowd does not appreciate my muffled laughter.

    • You are a fabulous correspondent!

    • Observer

      Over your shyness then? 😀

      • Vaquera

        In spades.

        • Observer

          Excellent!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      When I finally get to attend one of these events, I hope you’ll come with me and hold my hand lol. I am a big mouth, but I think I’d be shy (initially) in that group of rock stars. 🙂

      • Vaquera

        NOLA, I would grab your hand and drag you around the venue to meet everyone.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          <3 <3 <3

      • ReallyMGM

        I hope someone does another one. There are still many topics to be covered and people to be heard.

        • Chee Chalker

          Yes, Chicago is lovely I hear….great convention town!

          • ReallyMGM

            Great gallery, good food, central location

          • Observer

            Hey, how come you weren’t there Saturday? Or were you and I just missed you?

            • Chee Chalker

              Unfortunately Tony’s visit coincided with our annual family trip to the north woods of Wisconsin.
              Trust me, I tried to convince everyone that I could join them later, but I was outvoted.
              It just about broke my heart!
              Toronto sounded unbelievable, so I hope another conference is scheduled soon. If its within driving distance, I’m going!
              Did you enjoy Chicago? Or, are you also a Chicagoan? I know there are a few in the Bunker

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Nora kind of remides me of a cross between Amy Schumer and Marc Headley’s both great honesty.

  • Eclipse-girl

    VERY off topic
    Richard Grant got it
    downstream by a few comments

  • ze moo

    “Schwarzenegger made it clear that this was not a Tom Cruise-like rant against psychiatry.”

    When the Terminator espouses a meme, you know it has reached saturation point. Ok, Arnold was talking about marriage counseling, but still, TC got the nod for his insanity. When another big actor cites another actor for bullshit, you know that all of Hollywood is thinking the same thing. Ok, maybe not Jenna Elfman, or Travolta, but still, nice meming Arnold.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/25/arnold-schwarzenegger-on-marriage-counseling-the-biggest-mistake-ive-ever-made/?tid=hp_mm

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Steve Cannane followed Professor Dvorkin’s sobering report on the extent of safe-pointing and the reach of $cientology in Eastern Europe. He estimates 4,000 $cientologists in Russia.

    Steve read a chapter from his upcoming book.

    No one who was in the room will not buy it.
    OMG.
    What a presentation.

    A letter of Hubbard’s (June 29, 1960) to an Inspector Bent of the CID
    was a jewel.
    The faux PhD, the claim of having been “the Provost Marshall of Korea”,
    bluster and braggadocio, hints of “subversives” – all the insanity
    and mendacity distilled in one missive.

    The crowning glory of Steve’s presentation was a letter from the “aggrieved customer from hell,”
    Phil Wern, an ex-$cientologist who claimed he went crazy because of $cientology.
    There was nothing crazy about the letter of April 1963.
    What a beautifully written takedown of the hubristic fraud.
    Another of his letters began “Dear Lucifer.”

    It was Hubbard’s hypersensitivity and overreach to Wern that led to the Anderson Report.
    This was a seminal moment in $cientology history.

    Whew!
    It gets better and better.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      4000 in Russia? Putin and LRH? What a swirling mass of fuckery that must be.

      Thanks for the update Pan. 🙂

      • ReallyMGM

        ^^^^^

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      4,000 Russian scientologists? Jeesh, now I’ll have to adjust my estimates – upward.
      Also, +10 for mendacity.

      • Science Doc

        Yea. That’s twice what I thought. We need to work on the U.S. and trust Putin et al. to clean their house.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Whoa, Aussies saw through Hubbard, Hubbard retaliates, and now, decades later, Aussies set record straight, again, finally!

      Good on you Aussie media, I notice it’s media to the rescue, for soceity, thankyou again!

    • Observer

      “Provost Marshal of Korea” is a new one on me.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      The book Human Trafficking by the US Church of Scientology by Steven Lee Douglas http://www.amazon.com/Human-Trafficking-US-Church-Scientology-ebook/dp/B00LS4XKKY has interviews with a couple of Russian Scientologists lured to Flag for more training and then had their passports taken and the mom and her teenage son given maid and cleanup duties, no courses, just manual labor. Quite disturbing. Tried to complain to Russian and I think US authorities,

  • nottrue
  • Vaquera

    Skies, you have been a star photog this week. I hope you share your collection once you get home and settled.

  • nottrue

    …Group showers…https://youtu.be/jku35xVYZiI

    • ze moo

      Children and adults shower together?? Someone call the police!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • JMasiulewicz

      Please do not judge all Chicagoans by these sick $cilogy f**ks.

      • McLovin_1982

        Ditto from the Chitown burbs

    • ReallyMGM

      Can someone in Chicago call child protective services. If this was made in June, they might get stopped.

  • Vaquera

    I’m losing track of what photos I shared, so please forgive if I put up duplicates.
    Jamie last night (f5)

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Thank you, Nora. and your documentary Will get made, dammit! It is the children who never had a vote, a choice,or an option. If there’s any justice still hanging around, those billions of bucks in scientology’s war chest would go to the education and benefit of all those born in hell trying to recover. As to Communion, I distinctly remember not being too happy with that whole business myself. Can you tell in my pic? I dug this out in hopes it would give you a smile after your conference days.

    http://i.imgur.com/jlKwDhc.jpg?3

  • Tony Ortega

    New story coming in minutes.

    Grab something and hold on.

    • Jimmy3

      Hold on to my butts! Err, your butts!

    • Sibs

      Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii….

      • Missionary Kid

        t.

    • Vaquera

      I can’t take anymore!!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Oh sure, I stop by for a quick drive post, and get sucked in. Gahhhhh.

        • Sibs

          You and me both! And now my phone is dying so I think I need to switch to my laptop.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            When Tony says something like Hold On, you Know you really need to hold on, grab your snacks, and make sure everything’s charged up!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Kissing the rest of this day goodbye! *waves* Bye Thursday!

              Parked in the Bunker until further notice. 😀

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I need a designated workout sub – I still have Hour #3 to go, plus making smoothies, cutting up a bushel of veggies, making soup, washing workout stuff, packing bag for tomorrow, oh, and so much more fun stuff.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I’m guessing you won’t find any volunteers in the Bunker today. 😀

              C’mon Hole…just hang out with us for awhile longer. hehehehe Just doing what I can to be a bad influence. LOL 🙂

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              You haven’t met my personal trainer 🙂

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I’ll pass. LOL

              I will however cook you jambalaya and potato salad and fresh bread…just cuz. 😀

        • Vaquera

          Lunch break!

    • skiesareblue

      I’m holding on to Pan!!

    • Robert Hammond

      Wha…whaaat?

    • Science Doc

      Strapped in and got my helmet on.

    • Snake Plissken

      I guess I picked a good time to break for lunch

    • Eileen

      EEKKK!! Hurry!

    • Beth

      I might not be breathing

    • A bird in the chimney

      I have my cats clutched tightly to me!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      1 Ortega
      2 Ortegas
      and so forth.

    • Supper Powers

      My stomach hurts.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Have some rations. I think they’re in the back.

        http://i.imgur.com/8vnnvhw.jpg?2

        • Supper Powers

          Perfect! Thanks.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            They may me be a tad stale. See Nora for something to wash it down.

            Why has my clock stopped??

            • joan nieman

              My heart has stopped!

    • Robert Hammond

      Are we there yet? (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18AzodTPG5U

    • ObsessedReader

      I’m holding, and I wouldn’t miss this for the world!
      Supposed to be packing for a flight but this is so much better! I’ll just shove a spare pair of underoos in my pocket. 😉

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        That’s the spirit. And if TSA checks your pockets at security check, just explain Tony said to grab something and hold on. That should do it:)

        • ObsessedReader

          Thanks for the TSA reminder! Puliing bedazzled undies out of pocket.

    • Sid
      • Robert Hammond

        I was just getting ready to start meditating before I saw Tony’s post. Now I don’t want to close my eyes and miss the scoop.

      • jane456

        So cute

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        We’re not a calm and collected bunch, are we?

        • Missionary Kid

          A bunch of Terriers, we are.

    • Eileen

      Possible story: OSA deflated Tom Brady’s footballs. Boston cheers.

    • Science Doc

      SOCUS rules on Village Idiot vs. Miscavige.

  • Interested

    I don’t know if these guys are brave or just down right daft. They made me smile though.
    http://youtu.be/5Hzdp8fl5OY

    • Missionary Kid

      Where’s the pneumonia?

      • Interested

        Isn’t it Ebola now… We can easily cure pneumonia. (Smile)

  • Jimmy3

    My guess as to the headline of the new story:

    David Miscavige not taller than ‘You Must Be This Tall to Ride’, decides to build his own ecclesiastical rollercoaster

    • Supper Powers

      Scoop!

    • ReallyMGM

      That only him and TC are allowed to ride. Together. Holding hands.

      • Robert Hammond

        Sounds like TC’s next honeymoon.

    • Science Doc

      Fund raising, then plans.

    • ShevilKat

      Which, according to doctrine, only goes straight up and vertical (coming down will cost you extra).

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • A bird in the chimney

      I had similar ideas! But finally decided maybe there’s been a big defection. (big defecation would be a different $ci matter entirely.)

  • Rasha

    I have a meeting for the next hour. If the story pops up while I’m gone, you guys don’t read any of it until I get back……

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Are you kidding me? I’ll be hitting the F5 key with my nail gun.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thus, the Holy keyboard.

        • ze moo

          At least it won’t move around anymore.

          • Missionary Kid

            Damn right! 😛

        • Robert Eckert

          The spit-out coffee will drain right through.

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s one advantage. 😀

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I have my own keyboard?

          Hey, while our clocks have stopped, here’s a funny in all my maddening adventures in health insurance land this month:

          Got a claim notice today from health insurer for my (I am NOT making this up):

          1 MRI during brain surgery
          2 Creating a hole in my heart (okay it said opening).

          Now, I may be getting more and more senior brain fart moments, but I am sure I would have remembered this – especially since there’s no bill for anesthesia!

          • Missionary Kid

            Check the return address on the bill. Probably from some place in Clearwater. 😉

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Bwahahaha. Oh wait, ya think? A love note from Dave?

            • Missionary Kid

              That is love from Dave. Send money.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Some photos from Pete Griffiths and tweets from Chris Shelton.

    F5/Refresh

    • Sid

      These are great!

    • Robert Hammond

      Very nice. Thank you Andrea

  • nottrue

    Hold on tight Billy…New post is coming

  • JMasiulewicz

    “Kelly Preston Revealed to be a Man. Travolta: ‘I Identify as Hetero’ “

  • ShevilKat

    I feel like I’m in a Pavlovian conditioning experiment……..

    • Supper Powers

      Nailed it.

    • Jimmy3

      I’m constantly drooling by default, so I can never tell if I’m in one of those.

  • SarahDB

    So I feel like I’ve been “Ortega-ed”. Used to be I would have my morning
    tea and read the Boston Globe cover to cover while slowly waking up.
    Now I only read the Globe in-between refreshing the Bunker to see what
    new stuff Tony and the Bunkeroos have posted. I don’t even finish the comic section most days. What is wrong with me??!!

    • Eclipse-girl

      you are an addict.
      Most of us are

      • SarahDB

        And what a lovely addiction it is!

        • ReallyMGM

          Beats the hell out of cigarettes and scotch.

      • Missionary Kid

        Hi, I’m Dan, and I’m a Bunkerholic.

        • Robert Hammond

          Hi Dan!

          • Missionary Kid

            Hi Robert!

        • Robert Eckert

          HI DAN!!!

          • Missionary Kid

            Hi Robert.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      What you mean, wrong? This sounds normal to me.

      • CO$CUZ

        Ha!! Might be my favorite shoop ever 🙂 After being on vacation and still reading this site religiously, I do wish I knew how to quit you all!

  • John McGhee

    Already read the Raging Buddha page some months back, so it is great to hear/see more from Nora about her life in the cult. More voices lead to the cult’s demise.

  • Supper Powers

    I’m starting to think the cats hijacked his computer while he was at lunch and wrote that just to mess with us. They are all laughing as they read our eager comments.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      They have their wicked moments, so it’s possible. They’ve been working double and triple time, so who could blame them?

      • ReallyMGM

        One of them sat on the delete key before he saved? #catproblems

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      F5

    • Robert Hammond

      I think you may be right. The cats are all… “Ha ha.. they fell for it.”

    • Science Doc

      Cats do this when they think you travel too much.

  • JMasiulewicz

    “APA Officially Changes Name of ‘Napoleon Complex’ to ‘Miscavigitis’ “

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “Miscavige finds his soul mate. Duggan Cloning Incorporated gets world largest trophy.”

      • ReallyMGM

        “Interview with Tommy Davis”

  • Eileen

    Tony’s next post better not be “Nevermind”

    • Robert Hammond

      Or.. “You’ll have to wait till tomorrow.”

    • Observer

      Look at it this way–your practice might pick up some business from traumatized Bunkeroos

    • Sid

      Or,, “Oh wait, did I post that on the Bunker? I’m all about TheLip.tv now.”

  • Observer

    Refresh
    .

    • SarahDB

      First laugh out loud today! Thanks Obs!

    • Missionary Kid

      Could we drop that in the sewer, where it belongs?

    • Sid

      Of course we know he’s already carrying a lot of baggage with him.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Hope so. 🙂

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Don’t tease me like that!

    • ReallyMGM

      Bag is too big. He will fit in an underseat pet carrier.

      • Kestrel

        There are those who would like to see him in an undersea pet carrier, I’m sure.

      • ReallyMGM

        * correct to “underseat”

        • Missionary Kid

          I like undersea better.

          • Kestrel

            Me, too. Gives my original snarky comment some reference.

            • ReallyMGM

              It does kinda go along where he is right now.

          • Beth

            me too!

      • Robert Hammond

        I liked it better before you edited “undersea” pet carrier.

      • Newiga

        It’s not too big if TC is in the bag too.

  • nottrue

    I know what it is but I’m not telling…

    • Jimmy3

      It’s about a space fireman, isn’t it?

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      nottrue, I’d like to speak to you out back. 😀

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Make his a triple – and then, you know what to do

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          10-4 ; )

    • Sid

      Because if you do we’ll all catch pneumonia?

    • Science Doc

      I believe you.

  • Kestrel

    Well, the Freewinds isn’t on fire, so that’s not it.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Damn postulates. They don’t work AT ALL!

    • Science Doc

      Can’t burn if it’s under water.

  • Beth

    READY!!!!

  • Sibs

    Very Off Topic: Got sucked into reading something else while I wait. http://fortune.com/sony-hack-part-1/

  • Robert Hammond
    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Hey, that’s me under that desk!

  • Kestrel

    This is taking a disconcertingly large number of Ortegas.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    No hurry. We’re fine in here. Yes, very, very fine.

    http://i.imgur.com/pK4jvlm.gif

  • Snake Plissken

    Please God F5

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      YAAAASSSS!!

    • Science Doc

      Yea, that’s the ticket.

    • Beth

      I WILL open a bottle of champagne if that’s it :-)))))

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        OMG the party in this place….

        I think I need a cold washcloth.

        • Beth

          WOO HOO!!!!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          We would have to book an immediate flight to France and soak in the good stuff for this one.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Gone bitches!!! Gone. Can you imagine? Christ, I get a flippy stomach just thinking it.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              And a bevy of cool french men in berets serving us on hand and foot. And fireworks, of course. And and and

            • Beth

              Hole you are GOOD 🙂

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              ^^^Facts.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              And that’s why I deserve those berets:)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      More teasers! You’re toying with my dreams here, mister!

      • Robert Hammond

        HAD I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
        Enwrought with golden and silver light,
        The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
        Of night and light and the half light,
        I would spread the cloths under your feet:
        But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
        I have spread my dreams under your feet;
        Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

        W.B. Yeats

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          saweet!

    • Science Doc

      I’ll drive to Hemet and piss on the electric fence if this happens.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Video at 11?

      • ShevilKat

        I’ll meet you there. But since I’m a chick and stream-challenged, I’ll let you handle all the pissing, if that’s O.K.

        • Science Doc

          Deal.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I’ll send you $1000 in 1 dollar bills so you can make it rain on the front gate and flip two middle fingers when you’re done. 🙂

          • ShevilKat

            Now, THAT I can do. I’ll even flash my boobies for no extra charge.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              The beauty of the female form.

              That’s how you walk away like a boss!

        • Alice Graves

          Backpacking stores can solve that – Sanifem – a plastic funnel type contraption that allows you to pee standing up.

      • Alice Graves

        How about a group piss – share the pain.

  • ShevilKat

    Take your time, Tony. My Xanax won’t kick in for another, say, 10 minutes.

  • Robert Hammond

    Has anyone filed a missing persons report on Tony yet? We haven’t heard from him in a very long time. Someone needs to put out an APB. (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfXPGCYlfI

  • Sid
  • Tony Ortega

    Please be patient. Waiting for an attorney to sign off on something. Story ready to go…

    And a couple of you haven’t sat down and buckled up. It’s going to be bumpy.

    • Mark

      Yes, Bette…

    • Sid

      Okay, seat belt snapped in place. One drink,,, no two,, down the hatch. Ready,,, ready,,,,

    • Eclipse-girl

      And I have a lunch date.

      I will catch up later

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        We will save your seat EG. 🙂

    • Science Doc

      I’ve got the chute packed and everything.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’ve armed the ejection seat.

        • Science Doc

          Ready on flares and chaff.

          • Sid

            Chaff? Is that something that happens when your underwear don’t fit right?

            • Missionary Kid

              Only if you’re DM.

          • Observer

            Don’t forget the flak jacket!

        • joan nieman

          Ha ha! Don’t forget the survival kit .

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s a part of the ejection package. I checked. It’s there.

    • ShevilKat

      (Pops another Xanax).

    • Cedilla
    • lynn

      I just cancelled a dr.s appt….I get the feeling its gonna be big news.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Attorneys?

      *deep breaths* Breathe Stephanie…breathe…

    • Eileen

      Waiting for an attorney to sign off…this could take days!

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Bahahaha!!

    • Snake Plissken

      Shit… I’ve already got the oxygen mask on

      https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvonfuUONn1qezlbwo1_500.gif

    • Robert Eckert

      I hope you don’t turn on the No Smoking sign. I need my nicotine when I’m stressed.

      • flyonthewall

        looks like I stopped by just in time. What’s goin on u think?

        • Science Doc

          Feds.

          • flyonthewall

            gtfo

            • Missionary Kid

              One can hope.

          • flyonthewall

            i was thinking lawsuit update, God I hope you’re right

          • Suzanna Nielsen

            Please……pleasepleaseplease

          • flyonthewall

            IRS investigation bc of the PI mess *fingers crossed*

          • Eileen

            That would be great news.

    • ze moo

      The Rathbun suit? About time the appeal decision was released.

      • Sibs

        Oh my god, I keep wondering every day when they’re finally going to announce that decision. It’s been aaaaaaages since we’ve had an update on that lawsuit.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I wonder how many Texas Judges have seen Going Clear? 🙂

      • Science Doc

        I think it’s much bigger than that.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          oh my!!!!!

    • Suzanna Nielsen

      I had a union arbitration meeting this afternoon and it just got cancelled. Yipee!
      Grabs seatbelt………

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Now that’s OT!

        • Suzanna Nielsen

          Yeah baby……..fuck parking spaces!

          • Supper Powers

            I looked at Kathy Feshbach’s Twitter account. She follows a company called Robotic Parking out of Clearwater. I chuckled at that.

    • Phil McKraken

      What’s he mean bumpy? Bumpy good or bumpy bad?

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Was wondering the same thing.

      • joan nieman

        Ooooh! I wish I knew.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Well, lawyers + bumpy. I don’t like it. I don’t like it one bit.

        http://i.imgur.com/44jH03c.gif

        • Sibs

          Dammit, I’ve always wanted this gif and now I can’t figure out how to save it! So gif-illiterate!

          • A bird in the chimney

            If you’re on a PC: right click, save image as

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hah – much simpler.

            • A bird in the chimney

              🙂

            • Sibs

              Unfortunately when I do “save image as” the only file format option it gives me to save as is a “preview document”.

            • A bird in the chimney

              Try opening the image in a new tab and then saving as. Sometimes that helps your computer isolate the image as a gif. And can you do any dropdown other choices on the ‘save as’ dialog box? Otherwise, THDNE’s method is sound! 🙂

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Go to google images. Search bumpy night. Go to tab of “Type”, drop down menu “animated”. Save, and then go to imgur dot com. Upload from your computer, save under index “original gif”.

            • Sibs

              I think I got it. But I’m not going to post it now to try it. I’ll wait for another day.

      • Observer

        If a lawyer has to sign off, I assume it means Scientology isn’t going to like it.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        yeah my question too. a little scared right now.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • ObsessedReader

      Thanks for the warning, pouring myself a little 100% (medicinal) agave before buckling.
      Damn, I hope there is another flight after the one I’m gonna miss!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      oh oh oh! I was gone for 20 minutes tweeting and writing a letter to the editor to Tampa Bay Times and all hell broke loose!

  • PerpetualOutflow

    Okay–seated and buckled. Why oh why did I ever wander into this place? Now I can’t get out.

    • joan nieman

      Aaaargh!

  • pixie dust

    Gawd Almighty. The TENSION.

  • Science Doc

    Do I hear a missile lock?

  • Kestrel

    I haven’t felt this much anticipation since the last time a new Beatles album was announced.

    • ReallyMGM

      Or a Zeppelin reunion.

  • nottrue

    Oh crap. I think it’s the big one…

    • Science Doc

      I think you are right.

    • Eileen

      What is the big one?

      • Supper Powers

        Rathbun.

        • Sid

          You mean he went back into Scientology? No way.

          • flyonthewall

            i changed my mind, you guys are alllllright

        • Eileen

          Hope not, that would not be big news to me.

    • Robert Hammond

      I think this is the big one. (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK9HXu9g5qA

      • Beth

        ha! you beat me to it Robert!!!

  • Supper Powers

    I’m going to declare a food fight just to relieve the tension if something doesn’t pop in the next 10 minutes.

    • Suzanna Nielsen

  • $cnMonkeyNut$

    What’s going on? Just got to the cinema and thought I’d give the Bunker a quick check to find it in commenting meltdown!

    • Robert Hammond

      Duck and cover!

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        I’m already crouched under the table!

        • Robert Hammond

          Good. And fasten your seatbelt!

          • $cnMonkeyNut$

            Done and done 🙂

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Big news coming from Tony. We were told to strap in and hold on. Bumpy was how it was described. That’s all I have right now. 🙂

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Wow-guess I’ll have to wait until I get out! Sounds like it’ll be a good one 🙂

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Enjoy. You know this party will still be going on when you get out. ; )

          • $cnMonkeyNut$

            Save me a seat at the bar and some snacks please 🙂

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Always. 🙂

            • $cnMonkeyNut$

              Thanks, might not be able to provide bloody marys today though 🙂

    • Sibs

      Oh dear, probably not a good time to check in if you were just about to see a movie!

    • ReallyMGM

      Get ready for incoming.

    • outraged

      Tom Cruise is starring in a new TV show called: Home Improvement Scion Style. Sea Org’ers race against the clock to see who can put the perfect finish on Tom’s new motorcycle. Winner gets a lifetime supply of unbleached toilet paper.

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        🙂 🙂 lol

      • Missionary Kid

        Instead of toilet paper, they are rewarded with corn cobs.

        • $cnMonkeyNut$

          🙂 Naughty MK-think they’d prefer the tp! (yikes-60 comments in 5 minutes, whew!)

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s just a part of the bait-and-switch so that DM can make more money.

            • $cnMonkeyNut$

              Aaaah-should have realised. 🙂

  • Alice Graves

    More good news: Carmen Llywelyn’s story about her scientology experience has hit heartland America: Redbook magazine. It doesn’t get much more heartland mainstream than that. I think it’s safe to say that the truth about the cult is reaching media saturation stages. Yayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

    • Missionary Kid

      Either Carmen is writing better, she’s gotten over a lot of the anger and self-doubt, or she’s gotten a good editor. Her story is getting told in a better way.

    • ReallyMGM

      Good to see her story out of the tabloids. She deserved better treatment than she was getting there.

  • Baby

    OMG OMG YESSSSSSSSSSSS!

    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/2uysot2.gif

  • Jimmy3

    my seatbelt wont buckle. pls help

    • Sibs

      Oh, I guess we’ve lost Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy!

      Tie the two ends together!

    • Supper Powers

      Oh poor Jimmy. I’ll help you buckle in AND pour you a drink. There there.

    • A bird in the chimney

      We’ll all link arms and duck our heads like kids during a school tornado drill.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I think your buckles are designed for someone else to operate. Is there a button on the wall or a cord you can pull for help?

    • Baby

      While You’re down there..

  • Suzanna Nielsen

    Oh my god…………I forgot how to blink!

    • Science Doc

      Blink less TRs

    • Eivol Ekdal
      • A bird in the chimney

        I’m gonna have to hide this. lol

      • Missionary Kid

        I know he’s not back.

      • 0tessa

        Be careful! Might be hypnotizing …

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      That moment…when you’re not giving birth, but you’re so glad you remembered your breathing techniques. LOL 🙂

  • jane456

    I can’t imagine anything that would shock me all the much except for maybe; “the church of scientology has dissolved and is returning donations to the fleeced around the world right now IRL” and releasing all workers to return to their own lives”. Maybe I don’t have a good imagination…..

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I like to imagine “Federal RICO Charges Filed Against David Miscavige and the Church of Scientology”

      It will lift your mood right up. 🙂

  • Cupcakes for Breakfast

    Well there goes the afternoon! 🙂 I see I wandered in at the right time. . .
    (Hanging on)

    • Missionary Kid

      Cupcakes for the Afternoon.

      • Cupcakes for Breakfast

        Cupcakes are an all-day food. 😉

        • Mark Foster

          It´s one of the basic food groups, right?

          • Cupcakes for Breakfast

            Totally!

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    EDIT to add – while we are waiting…

    My OT topic – At Aquaclara’s suggestion I sent a letter to the editor of the TB Times re: https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/06/23/746880/0/en/Photo-Release-Church-of-Scientology-Opens-Historic-Ybor-Square-to-World-Environment-Day.html?print=1 – the cult took down the original press release it appears, or someone took it down anyway.

    Haven’t heard back from any of the others I emailed at Sierra Club, Audobon.

    • ReallyMGM

      Yes! Good for you that it got published. it is a great letter. I hate that the Sierra Club and Audubon Society are mixed up with them.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I just submitted it – they may not publish it. But at least the editors will read it. I am sick of the cult’s attempts to “safepoint” these good groups.

        • ReallyMGM

          We have to do all we can when we see something in our communities regarding it. We can scream to the rafters in the Bunker but we already know the truth. We aren’t the target audience.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Exactly.

    • aquaclara

      Ah, a double win. You wrote a stirring letter, sent it up for some press consideration, and now, whoooeee, the original press release disappears just like that. Funny how that happens.
      Let’s see your letter get published tomorrow….keeping my fingers crossed.
      No savings, no health insurance, no phone, no car, no life.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I really don’t know why it was removed. BUT one of the recipients may have complained to the cult and asked them to take it down. That would be interesting.

  • Jack99

    The elephants are restless tonight…

  • Robert Hammond

    Get ready for incoming! (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNblF1PkSwo

  • ShevilKat

    Ninety-nine bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beeeeeer…….

  • flyonthewall

    nothing on scinews . org, surely they would give us the 411

    • Sid

      A flea and a flyonthewall,
      were imprisoned by Miscavige et al,
      Said the flea let us fly,
      said the fly let us flee,
      So they flew through the hole in the wall.

      • flyonthewall

        *insert clever limerick on virtues of Sid here*

      • flyonthewall

        Sid, I thought him Vicious
        Twas only justice he wishes
        Spirit of Siddhartha
        Destroys the Maitreyya impostor

        *wipes sweat from my brow*

      • Robert Eckert

        The hole in the wall
        does not exist, at all

    • Matt in Atlanta

      What are we talking about? I miss something?

      • Suzanna Nielsen

        New story coming. Bumpy. We freakin. scroll down a bit.

        • Science Doc

          Bumpy sounds like a fight.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Bumpy + lawers sounds not good.

            • Sid

              Bumpy + lawyers, could be very good.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I’ll trade attitutudes with you!

            • Suzanna Nielsen

              I am feeling somewhat positive. So since I am usually wrong………… :-/

            • Science Doc

              Could go either way.

            • Science Doc

              Yea.

          • Matt in Atlanta

            Am I finally being indicted for my alleged crimes? 0_O

  • madame duran

    I CAN’T TAKE THIS WAITING ANYMORE!!!

    • Newiga

      I come home and find the Bunker buzzing! Love it! Barely finished today’s post and we’re waiting for more?

  • Matt in Atlanta

    The man is a coward in my humble opinion!

  • Science Doc

    No trolls yet, so nobody’s told OSA.

    • Sibs

      Just wait, if someone says OSA three times then a troll will show up!

      • Science Doc

        That’s Cat Daddy.

      • Newiga

        Eat your heart out, Bloody Mary!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Today is Thursday!

      • ReallyMGM

        Just turned 2 in CW.

  • skiesareblue

    Just returned from lunch with Pan. Session about to start. Everyone at the conference is hooked up, waiting!!!!!!

    • Science Doc

      Bumpy coming.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      If you didn’t get the memo, gear up fast. The Bunker’s already smokin’. Hazmat suit up. You Did pack them, right?
      http://i.imgur.com/dkmfTD3.jpg

    • Robert Hammond

      Wait for it..

  • Robert Hammond

    Whatchu talking ’bout? (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

    • skiesareblue

      Narconon. That’s the short answer!

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Attorneys…We want to love you. Get it in gear!

  • Sibs

    My web browser just crashed as I was trying to show more comments. All this waiting is stressing my computer out!

  • Hamtaro

    If you’re currently refreshing your screen more often than once a minute, you might be suffering from BAD—Bunker Addiction Disease. Common symptoms include: wishing it was always 7am, falling asleep at your keyboard, drinking during the daytime and being overly fond of cats. Please consult your physician to see if visiting the Underground Bunker is right for you.

    • McLovin_1982

      Side effects may include:

      Pain in the F5 finger
      Anxiety
      Trembling and shaking
      Fingernail biting….

    • aegerprimo

      I definitely have ALL the symptoms.

  • PerpetualOutflow

    Oh puhleeze break in the next 15 minutes. I have a meeting at 2:30 and won’t be capable of paying attention if it hasn’t.

  • Tony Ortega

    Ooh, we’re close. Just a little longer.

    • Jack99

      That’s easy for you to say.

      • ReallyMGM

        I have an OLD laptop and my iPad is stutters on Disqus

    • Matt in Atlanta

      Foreplay….

    • Snake Plissken

      Too late I couldn’t take it anymore I went down to the org and signed a billion year contract

      • Eileen

        Hahahaha…..

    • ShevilKat

      No hurry. I think I died 5 of an aneurysm 5 minutes ago.

      • Sibs

        You sure it’s not just all the Xanax you took?

        • ShevilKat

          What did you say???? I can’t hear you–I’m dead, remember? 🙂

    • Suzanna Nielsen

    • Sookie Sookie

      This is what “drunk with power” looks like in blogging. 😀

      Edited: *drunk* with, not *a* drunk with! yikes…

      • Suzanna Nielsen

        Oooh….lol

    • A bird in the chimney
    • Missionary Kid

      Sounds like a line from a porno.

      • Always Amazed

        said the wife

    • flyonthewall

      that’s what she said!

    • Newiga
    • Cupcakes for Breakfast

      This means time for a quick bathroom break before we are glued to the computers for the next 14 hrs! Run!

      • Suzanna Nielsen

        brilliant!!!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Already did, grabbed necessities, back to the F5 key stutter.

      • Baby

        BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAHHAHAHAHAH.. Nailed it!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
      • aquaclara

        That is so my dog. Well, the pool and the toy, part. And the color. funny!!!

    • Mark Foster

      Ha ha ha! We are ALL Tony´s bee-otches! And we love it <3

  • ReallyMGM

    I am letting you guys do all of the screen refreshing. Click on….

    • Cedilla

      You only have 1 screen going?

      • ReallyMGM

        Yep. Playing it safe right now. I would throw it across the room if it died now.

  • Baby

    WHAT THE FUCK YOU TALKIN BOUT IN THERE..??? Bunch of SPs..( F5)

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Oh God. Dave got a hold of Baby’s account. 😀

      • Baby

        Hahahah.. I AIN’T SKEEEERED OF THAT LITTLE PISS ANT.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          You squirming like me?? LOL

    • Suzanna Nielsen

      Oh, hey………I so remember that day. I thought he was gonna try to crawl in the backseat with ya!

      • Baby

        hahha.. ” WHAT’S YUR NAME? ”

        ” NUNYA ” ” NUNYA BUSNESS”

        • Suzanna Nielsen

          Is that a wig?

          hurhur.

          • Baby

            Oh that’s right I forgot.. hahahhaa.. Lame Game..

        • Observer

          Poor kid should be in school or skateboarding or playing video games or something.

          • Suzanna Nielsen

            I know. He is just a whisp of a thing. But he is programmed very well. Got his face right up in the car window.

          • Jenny Daniels

            Or just sitting in his room diddling (I wanted to use the “j-o” phrase, but wasn’t sure it was ok.)
            Poor child!

        • Always Amazed

          Puddintane

    • Observer

      is that confront or derp? Because it looks like derp to me.

      • Baby

        Oh massive Derp Obs.. He had DAT Downnnn.. We were shaking in our Bras..

      • Matt in Atlanta

        No. He just got sec checked and is now pulling his undies out of his arse!

        • Saltarello

          Self-audit, self-wedgie…

    • Missionary Kid

      The last time a security guard addressed me in tone 40 with “What’s your name?”
      I answered, “SP.”

      • Baby

        Oh good one Kid.. I have been reading yur adventures with Tory.. How fun..lots of entheta..

      • Ben Franklin

        or say David, then if he or she asks for last name say Miscavige just to see the look on their face

        • Missionary Kid

          Thanks, I’ll remember that one.

          • Ben Franklin

            You can even do Ron Hubbard

        • Baby

          I’ll say Shelly.. Perfect!

    • Newiga

      He looks like he should be at school.

      • Baby

        Hi Weegie.. Just a baybe.. NO idea how he is fuckin his life up..

        • Newiga

          Hi Smoking Baby!! *waves enthusiastically* I think you are right, he probably doesn’t. 🙁 Poor sod..

    • Graham

      Is that a camera he’s got tucked into his shirt?

      • Baby

        Either that or his Secret Decoder Xenu contraption.

        • Observer

          Maybe it’s a GPS so his whereabouts can be monitored at all times.

      • Baby

        No he was just happy to see me..

      • Todd Tomorrow

        No, he’s just happy to see you!