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	<title>
	Comments on: Augustine: How L. Ron Hubbard devised Scientology&#8217;s most diabolical legal mechanisms	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Dibythesea		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-1001782</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dibythesea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 02:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-1001782</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-1001732&quot;&gt;Juicer77&lt;/a&gt;.

Done!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-1001732">Juicer77</a>.</p>
<p>Done!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juicer77		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-1001732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juicer77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 02:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-1001732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986126&quot;&gt;Dibythesea&lt;/a&gt;.

email me at kurtjess77 at gmail dot com :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986126">Dibythesea</a>.</p>
<p>email me at kurtjess77 at gmail dot com 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juicer77		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-1001635</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juicer77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 01:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-1001635</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986104&quot;&gt;Vaquera&lt;/a&gt;.

Hey you, email me at kurtjess77 at gmail dot com]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986104">Vaquera</a>.</p>
<p>Hey you, email me at kurtjess77 at gmail dot com</p>
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		<title>
		By: Elizabeth Lavet		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-993251</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth Lavet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-993251</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985726&quot;&gt;J. Swift&lt;/a&gt;.

I saw no evidence what they had to offer me was worth the cost they were asking me to pay. 

What I find appalling is the attitude that if you have money you have to buy or donate and you must sign paperwork  committing yourself to the expense or giving up your rights on their time line, it must be their way.  Just another form of it being a controlling cult. 

The idea of whether someone has money to give or buy should not enter into it.  We have the right to choose what we spend our money on and have that respected as well as to choose what we sign.  Those are our choices, not scientology&#039;s choices. Scientologists don&#039;t seem to get the idea of personal respect, personal choice.  No one has to give money, buy anything, or sign anything they don&#039;t want to.  It is just that simple. These people are teaching classes on personal communication etc. but do not seem to realize they are so out of order in how they related to me.  They are not someone whose opinion I value or anyone that has earned my trust, quite to the contrary.

They had already lied to me and demonstrated delusional thinking on multiple occasions.  For example, the main guy in the second org I went to told me theirs was a smoke free environment, he mentioned that he gave up smoking during the sauna program and felt better, then as we were walking around he lit a cigarette.  When questioned about this he stated he now smokes because he wants to not because he is addicted and that L. Ron Hubbard said a person that is CLEAR can drink poison and it won&#039;t hurt them.  Of course we were inside the &quot;smoke free&quot; building when he lit up his cigarette walking with a person he had just been extolling the virtues of being smoke free to.

The first org. told me theirs was a smoke free building, their own and only auditor chain smoked in the building, in the women&#039;s bathroom.  There was no policy against it, just bawl faced lies.  Do they think some magical Jennie is going to make their lie alright. 

 I wish people would realize there is nothing, absolutely nothing, demonstrated in scientology that would indicate scientology tech is saving the world or even those individuals inside, that no one should give up their personal freedoms to speak, look, listen, and legally act.  

There are so many ways of doing the same things scientology offers, less costly, mentally, physically, and financially.   ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985726">J. Swift</a>.</p>
<p>I saw no evidence what they had to offer me was worth the cost they were asking me to pay. </p>
<p>What I find appalling is the attitude that if you have money you have to buy or donate and you must sign paperwork  committing yourself to the expense or giving up your rights on their time line, it must be their way.  Just another form of it being a controlling cult. </p>
<p>The idea of whether someone has money to give or buy should not enter into it.  We have the right to choose what we spend our money on and have that respected as well as to choose what we sign.  Those are our choices, not scientology&#8217;s choices. Scientologists don&#8217;t seem to get the idea of personal respect, personal choice.  No one has to give money, buy anything, or sign anything they don&#8217;t want to.  It is just that simple. These people are teaching classes on personal communication etc. but do not seem to realize they are so out of order in how they related to me.  They are not someone whose opinion I value or anyone that has earned my trust, quite to the contrary.</p>
<p>They had already lied to me and demonstrated delusional thinking on multiple occasions.  For example, the main guy in the second org I went to told me theirs was a smoke free environment, he mentioned that he gave up smoking during the sauna program and felt better, then as we were walking around he lit a cigarette.  When questioned about this he stated he now smokes because he wants to not because he is addicted and that L. Ron Hubbard said a person that is CLEAR can drink poison and it won&#8217;t hurt them.  Of course we were inside the &#8220;smoke free&#8221; building when he lit up his cigarette walking with a person he had just been extolling the virtues of being smoke free to.</p>
<p>The first org. told me theirs was a smoke free building, their own and only auditor chain smoked in the building, in the women&#8217;s bathroom.  There was no policy against it, just bawl faced lies.  Do they think some magical Jennie is going to make their lie alright. </p>
<p> I wish people would realize there is nothing, absolutely nothing, demonstrated in scientology that would indicate scientology tech is saving the world or even those individuals inside, that no one should give up their personal freedoms to speak, look, listen, and legally act.  </p>
<p>There are so many ways of doing the same things scientology offers, less costly, mentally, physically, and financially.   </p>
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		<title>
		By: Jimmy3		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-991689</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimmy3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-991689</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986110&quot;&gt;Nat-leficent&lt;/a&gt;.

.???]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986110">Nat-leficent</a>.</p>
<p>.???</p>
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		<title>
		By: Elizabeth Lavet		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-991648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth Lavet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2015 03:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-991648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985726&quot;&gt;J. Swift&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s shit.  I do wish those inside scientology would realize two things, 1.  The policies of scientology are creating an environment where people are doing things they probably don&#039;t want to do and despite the fact L. Ron Hubbard seemed to thing that behavior is OK, it really is not helping the church, helping keep people out, which is good.  2.  The benefits for people in the church seem to be all screwed up.  You have big commissions being paid to some admin. or staff, percentages being earned by public toward courses, and the people who are making it happen, the auditors and the Sea Org. and some staff get almost nothing, they don&#039;t even get time to do the courses it would only make sense to have those people in charge take.  It is hard for me to imagine them not making sure every sea org member is CLEAR and OT 7 or 8 or fast getting there.   I understand they are under tremendous pressure to produce stats.  I don&#039;t care, nobody likes to feel helpless.  I wish they could understand that we then feel like we wish we could hit them and kick them and tell them to go to hell and storm out.  I would like to tell them to fuck off and if they have to resort to such tactics maybe they are in the wrong religion.  I now believe that if a person IN scientology&#039;s mouth is moving they are lying, it seems to be second nature.  Too many bullshit things left me mad.  I am so grateful for everyone speaking out, but I tell you even though I want to go to the convention I am becoming aware that I am so angry I am afraid that anger would spew out over the wonderful people fighting the good fight.  I do think I need to make some videos of my own and I do appreciate that it is not as easy to do as they make it look.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985726">J. Swift</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s shit.  I do wish those inside scientology would realize two things, 1.  The policies of scientology are creating an environment where people are doing things they probably don&#8217;t want to do and despite the fact L. Ron Hubbard seemed to thing that behavior is OK, it really is not helping the church, helping keep people out, which is good.  2.  The benefits for people in the church seem to be all screwed up.  You have big commissions being paid to some admin. or staff, percentages being earned by public toward courses, and the people who are making it happen, the auditors and the Sea Org. and some staff get almost nothing, they don&#8217;t even get time to do the courses it would only make sense to have those people in charge take.  It is hard for me to imagine them not making sure every sea org member is CLEAR and OT 7 or 8 or fast getting there.   I understand they are under tremendous pressure to produce stats.  I don&#8217;t care, nobody likes to feel helpless.  I wish they could understand that we then feel like we wish we could hit them and kick them and tell them to go to hell and storm out.  I would like to tell them to fuck off and if they have to resort to such tactics maybe they are in the wrong religion.  I now believe that if a person IN scientology&#8217;s mouth is moving they are lying, it seems to be second nature.  Too many bullshit things left me mad.  I am so grateful for everyone speaking out, but I tell you even though I want to go to the convention I am becoming aware that I am so angry I am afraid that anger would spew out over the wonderful people fighting the good fight.  I do think I need to make some videos of my own and I do appreciate that it is not as easy to do as they make it look.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Elizabeth Lavet		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-990346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth Lavet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-990346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986637&quot;&gt;Jimmbo&lt;/a&gt;.

I think a class action lawsuit should be made for fraud and the holdings sold, on winning it, and the proceeds distributed to all those that slaved for false ideals and all those that spent money trying to obtain what they know does not exist, or donated, proportionally to the life time working and money spent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-986637">Jimmbo</a>.</p>
<p>I think a class action lawsuit should be made for fraud and the holdings sold, on winning it, and the proceeds distributed to all those that slaved for false ideals and all those that spent money trying to obtain what they know does not exist, or donated, proportionally to the life time working and money spent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrea 'i-Betty' Garner		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-990322</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea 'i-Betty' Garner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-990322</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-985873&quot;&gt;TonyOrtega&lt;/a&gt;.

I missed this when it was first posted. So happy to see it now. You all look gorgeous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-985873">TonyOrtega</a>.</p>
<p>I missed this when it was first posted. So happy to see it now. You all look gorgeous.</p>
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		<title>
		By: richelieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-2/#comment-988442</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richelieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2015 22:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-988442</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great work, Jeffrey. 

Again.

Lucid, informative and comprehensive for a text of that length. Yiu have outdone yourself, of late.

Thank you (&#038; Karen) for everything.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work, Jeffrey. </p>
<p>Again.</p>
<p>Lucid, informative and comprehensive for a text of that length. Yiu have outdone yourself, of late.</p>
<p>Thank you (&amp; Karen) for everything.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dchoiceisalwaysrs		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-987847</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dchoiceisalwaysrs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2015 06:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=23177#comment-987847</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985295&quot;&gt;mimsey borogrove&lt;/a&gt;.

I see this trait of Hubbard as part of his character evidenced  as early, if not earlier, of his kidnapping of his daughter Alexis from the USA to Cuba circa 1951. I would say it was extortion and blackmail to get Sara to shut up about his criminal behaviour.  So of course he continued to use it for the &#039;protection of his alter-ego &#039;church of scientology&#039; and the fraud that he imbedded within it. Although it is a]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/06/11/augustine-how-l-ron-hubbard-devised-scientologys-most-diabolical-legal-mechanisms/comment-page-1/#comment-985295">mimsey borogrove</a>.</p>
<p>I see this trait of Hubbard as part of his character evidenced  as early, if not earlier, of his kidnapping of his daughter Alexis from the USA to Cuba circa 1951. I would say it was extortion and blackmail to get Sara to shut up about his criminal behaviour.  So of course he continued to use it for the &#8216;protection of his alter-ego &#8216;church of scientology&#8217; and the fraud that he imbedded within it. Although it is a</p>
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